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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Supporting Sobriety podcast, dedicated to the unsung heroes behind those struggling with addiction. They're friends and family like you who'll share insights, stories and resources to help you support your loved ones and care for yourself on the recovery journey.
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Speaker 2: Supporting Sobriety Podcast at Sobridy, Underscore pod, on x or Twitter. I have no problems with marijuana. I mean, personally, I have a problem with that. I can't do it because I'm an addict. I'm a recovering addict and alcoholic. That's my problem with marijuana. As far as marijuana being legal, I have no problems with that. In fact, a little secret, I think it should be legal for people who are not recovering alcoholics and atics. And I know there are probably a thousand recovery programs out there that involve THHD.
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Speaker 3: If that's your thing, more power to you.
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Speaker 2: If you can keep THC for being a gateway drug, more power to you. But marijuana is so much stronger to day. Can you get addicted to marijuana? How much stronger is it? What are the dangers in a fednal world with marijuana? And we're going to talk about all this with doctor Michael Lrossa, who's from Harbor Light, a recovery center here at idiot app was a recovery center with a heart of gold, a huge heart.
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Speaker 3: And it's not Hey, it's not a country club.
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Speaker 2: You're not going to be playing frisbee golf at Harbor Light, but what you are going to get is a huge guid shot and a lot of love. And by the way, we are not affiliated in a business manner, Harbor Light and supporting so Brady podcast.
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Speaker 3: We just really like each other. We help each other out.
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Speaker 2: You know, recovery works, we keep it by giving it away and I kind of feel like that's with this podcast in harbor Light Center.
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Speaker 3: It's really cool.
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Speaker 2: Ryan Hedrick, the co host of this podcast, He's taking care of a personal matter.
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Speaker 3: Today, which is why I'm speaking with you.
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Speaker 2: Now by myself and hopefully and we've talked a little bit like Ryan and I do, and for the next episode when he comes back, I believe he wants to speak about this personal matter and from what I know about it, and he's going to tell the story. But from what I know about it, this is going to be the biggest god shot of your week. Maybe your month, because there's going to be the bad, there's going to be the good. There's going to be the bad, and then we're going to reach the sun and it's going to be this beautiful god shot at the end, and you're going to be like, You're going to be like.
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Speaker 3: Man, I'm glad I sat through that. Man, I'm glad I listened to Ryan Hendrick today.
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Speaker 2: It's it's I'm really excited to do it. That's why I'm talking about it.
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Speaker 3: Recovery. You get all these things excited about you. Your just like whoa, Yeah, Recovery's awesome.
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Speaker 4: Man.
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Speaker 2: Four years and three months in change is what I'm on and I think Ryan's around there too. We just love doing this podcast today. The point is to speak about marijuana and kind of have a where are we at with this right now?
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Speaker 3: Again? Can you get addicted? How strong is it? Where is it?
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Speaker 2: What's in it? Really good questions that we'll speak with doctor LaRosa about. It is stronger what our parents smoke. The weed we have today is so much stronger than what our parents smoked. According to Bath University, this big time research university over in England, what Mam and dad smoked was fourteen percent weaker than what we have today.
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Speaker 3: Hash the hashish.
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Speaker 2: Twenty five percent more potent today than what it was fifty years ago.
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Speaker 3: That's a hell of a number.
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Speaker 2: The findings come from expert announced us of more than eighty thousand weed samples. So the control group is there. Yeah, and it's a study over last fifty years, starting in nineteen seventy.
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Speaker 3: So basically the hash the grass ah so much stronger today than what we are smoking.
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Speaker 2: Hey, can we get addicted to marijuana? I mean, I've been in recovery meetings in you know, as somebody might say I'm addicted to marijuana, and we kind of give him a sign kind of well, that's not heroin, that's not the one shot killed like Feederoh, you can't even know de.
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Speaker 3: For marijuana at least, that's the common thinking. What else are you addicted to? Huh, God, it's got to be something else.
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Speaker 2: We're going to talk about that with doctor larrosakev it up here, whether or not you can become addicted to marijuana, and whether or not, and don't throw anything at me, whether or not you can overdose on marijuana. I want to ask the question. I know the answer. The comed answer is no, No, you can't, Oh dummy, you can't overdose on marijuana. Everybody knows that it's a lot stronger than what it used to be. And what if it has fetanyl? Remember fentanyl dose size of the penny can kill you. You can die on heroin first time you use heroin. So if you're getting fentanyl, maybe an opioid into your weed, he could o d Maybe it's strong enough to make you of D. I don't know the answers, which is why we're going to speak with an expert.
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Speaker 3: In a couple of minutes.
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Speaker 2: Harvard Hell says today's cannabis products can contain levels of THC.
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Speaker 3: You know, that's the buckaboo and weed. You know, the thing to make.
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Speaker 2: Sure I as high as ninety percent, that's that's huge. It was two to three percent in nineteen seventy. So ninety percent THAC levels today compared to two to three percent in the nineteen seventies.
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Speaker 3: That's from Harvard Health. I asked ai.
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Speaker 2: Hey, it doesn't ever have to cite his sources, but hey, I says that nineteen seventies average THAC content one to three percent today is seventeen to thirty percent. So it's not saying ninety percent like Harvard, but that.
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Speaker 4: Just is.
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Speaker 2: THC content marijuana and cannabis is a lot higher today than what it was with her parents. Plus we have the risk of fentanol. So we have a lot to speak with doctor l Rosa about here in a minute or two. I wasn't ever, I wasn't a big wing guy. I was an opiate guy. Of course, I was an alcoholic alcoholic. My wife that was always there, alcohol would never leave. But it was opioids that they were. My muse says, they're my harem.
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Speaker 3: Love the opioids.
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Speaker 2: You could put a nuclear bomb dex and me set the timer and I'd start laughing if I was on oxacon and that.
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Speaker 3: Sounds like a good time.
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Speaker 2: Well, you know, wait until you're a week later and you keep having to build up that tolerance and then you can't get any and it feels like alligators are eating your legs. Yeah, they included in the withdrawal symptoms. They absolutely worse. But I was never a big weed guy. I always made an ass in myself when I was doing weed. Now, there was a period in my late teens early twenties where I was smoking grass all the time. But that was just masking the fact that I felt like a miserable fuck all the time. Yeah, and but it never made me feel good about me.
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Speaker 3: I could not talk.
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Speaker 2: I'm bad at talking to women to begin with, especially once I'm attracted to. But I tell you what, I would smoke grass and I wouldn't be like that woo, No, I would like go hide in a quarter man. It was we'd maybe so paranoid, took all those things, all those insecurities inside of me and just doubled down.
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Speaker 3: That's not the case with a lot of people. A lot of people can use.
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Speaker 2: Marijuana without becoming addicted. They can use marijuana without any social stigma. They can be a sacrament. We have a church here in Indianapol, what it's called the First Church of Cannabis and Marijuana is the sacrament. Now, I think it was started for political reasons more than anything, but it's.
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Speaker 3: There and it's their sacrament.
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Speaker 2: People can use marijuana without becoming addicted. And more power to you, man. I hope the government treats you rightan I hope you get your medicinal use. There's also speaking of medicinal uses, there's also an argument out there that legalizing marijuana would cut back the use of opioids, which I.
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Speaker 3: Am really in favor for.
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Speaker 2: If you give somebody marijuana and opioids, I hope they choose marijuana. Yeah, gungs up your lungs. It does things. But man, oh man, my experience with both, I would rather come off marijuana and opioids any day of the week, twice on Sunday. Those opioids hook you. They can hook you legally and you're off to the races.
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Speaker 3: There. This suck, especially with the withdrawal symptoms.
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Speaker 2: All right, let's take a second here again. Ryan's coming back for the next episode.
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Speaker 3: We can't wait.
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Speaker 2: We really miss him. Spiritual lion, right. Hedrick our co host of the Supporting Sobridy podcast, And when we come back, you and I are going to talk to doctor l Rosa about marijuana, it's strength, addiction, and where we are at today.
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Speaker 3: That's next on the Supporting Sobridy Podcast. I found hope in the midst of an overwhelming situation.
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Speaker 5: Alcoholism can affect any family. Are you in an overwhelming situation? Because if someone else is drinking, alan On and Altein can help call eight sixty six two zero zero zero zero three three or visit allanon dot org slash hope.
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Speaker 1: This is the Supporting Sobriety podcast.
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Speaker 2: Supporting Sobriety podcast at Sobriety Underscore pod on x and Instagram.
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Speaker 3: You can find us there.
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Speaker 2: Speaking about a few minutes ago, we wanted to talk to our friend friend of Supporting Sobriety, doctor Michael LaRosa of Harbor Light Recovery Center in Indianapolis, Indiana, the home of Supporting Sobriety. We want to talk about marijuana, and I do have experience in use, being recovered down coaholic and the recovering addict. I did do a fair share of marijuana when I was in my late teens and early twenties.
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Speaker 3: It was never really my thing, but I.
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Speaker 2: Know a cannabis continues to become more and more popular in the United States today. So we welcome back doctor LaRosa to the Supporting Sobriety Podcast.
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Speaker 3: Doctor LaRosa, great to have you.
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Speaker 2: Remind us again what exactly are your responsibilities at Harbor Light.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm the medical Detalks manager over there, and we take care of just about everything, you know, alcohol, cocaine, myth and satamin olucima, jens anything really that people can get in trouble with. We try to detox them, and we have different regimens and different timeframes of how we detox them over there. And then once we're done with the acute stuff, we get him into residential treatment, we get him into transitional housing and things like that. That's what I do every day over there.
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Speaker 2: Well, first questions first, because it's something that I hear that you can't become addicted to marijuana and want to ask you the professional, can you become addicted to marijuana?
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Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, you can, Matt. Absolutely. I'd say probably one out of ten people can become addicted just after using initiating the drug and they'll develop a cannabis use disorder, you know, one out of six teenagers and get addicted. And probably daily users, you know, twenty five thirty percent of those folks can become addicted. So it does get an addicted potential to it.
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Speaker 2: Yes, And I spoke about this a little bit ago, doctor l Ross. According to statistics CDC included how easy it is to become addicted to marijuana, and if we start using in our adolescent years, it increases the chance that adults we will become addicted to marijuana.
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Speaker 3: Do you agree with that thesis?
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Speaker 4: Absolutely? And we see that with other substances across the board too. The earlier that you drink, the more difficulty you're going to have getting rid of that alcohol. The same way with the opiates as well. But yes, absolutely, twelve to eighteen, I would say, what was there reading earlier that half of the admissions to treatment centers for young people twelve to eighteen is for marijuana use.
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Speaker 2: And I remember in my recovery experiences in Rehabilitaian centers so many I want to say kids. I mean, I'm in my mid forties now, but as so many young adults and teenagers in these recovery centers, and you know, they're addicted to the marijuana, they're addicted, yes, to the opians and the heroin, and they're getting involved in such an early age. And I get two with my drinking, in my drug use, I started at an early age. You know, it's a blessing to be in recovery. I love being recovering alcoholic. But here we are, you know, here we are. I started early and I quit late.
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Speaker 4: Yep, you are a classic example, Matt, of what we're struggling with. Really, in general.
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Speaker 2: The philosophy, you know, what we're smoking with marijuana isn't the same as what our parents were smoking back in the civities. Do you believe that marijuana is stronger today than what it used to be?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, it's it's probably three times stronger than it used to be.
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Speaker 3: Can you overdose on it?
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Speaker 4: There has not been a documented death to marijuana, both the light stuff and the heavy, guerrilla strength stuff that we can document. That said, is the marijuana supply clean? The answer is no. And is the marijuana supply lace with all kinds of stuff that you can overdose from Sentinel and K two and all this kind of jazz. Absolutely it is. So that's where the marijua want a lobby points to, Look, we haven't had an overdose death from marijuana ever documented, And then they say, well, you know what, it's the lowest guy on the totem pole regarding cocaine and methamphetamine and alcohol and tobacco. It's the lowest one on the totem pole. So it's got to be safe. That's the perception, and that is a deadly, deadly, deadly trap as far as I'm concerned.
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Speaker 2: So the lobby essentially would say, there's nobody overdosing on marijuana. But they're talking about the stuff that comes directly from the ground and that's all there is in it. They might be leaving on the fact that marijuana could be laced with fentanyl or an opioid.
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Speaker 3: Is that correct?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, that is absolutely correct. And and and that's the frustration that we get into trying to trying to treat this, because you know, the marijuana lobby is a voracious group of souls. They they they will they will go to the mat and they will present every bit of research that's not necessarily peered reviewed right in front of you. And now basically they see it's okay, it's just a dangerous, dangerous toy, guys, a very dangerous toy, particularly with what's in it now, very dangerous.
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Speaker 2: Well in the mists surround it. That you can't overdose on it. I mean that as an addict. That would stick in my head and I would use that as a catalyst to go using marijuana.
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Speaker 3: I'd say, hey, I can't no different it. You know what's the problem, and.
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Speaker 2: You know the positives people discuss, you know, with the medicinal purposes, and you know, you hear a lot more good about marijuana these days than bad. And it's not like I want to demonize the thing, but I'm sorry. Addiction is addiction, and if you become addicted to it, it can become lethal.
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Speaker 3: Is that a hypothesis? Is that safe?
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Speaker 4: That is very safe?
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Speaker 2: Talking with doctor Michael LaRosa of Harbor Light Recovery Center at Idiot Apples Home is supporting sobriety and we want to move our You said something a little bit earlier, you talked about the gorilla, the big bad gorilla of marijuana. Were you referencing possibly synthetic marijuana when you said that the stuff that people make, well.
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Speaker 4: Even if you just use the stuff that they're always cultivating new stronger strengths of marijuana. I'm talking about the stuff that is now compared to what in the nineteen seventies. But when it comes to synthetic, oh my goodness, how many hundreds of times more potent is it than even the really hard regular stuff that people are using now? Much much more potent now, that is a totally different animal. And guess what there are overdoses with that.
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Speaker 2: Oh okay, So if it comes from the ground, that's the argument. If it's just pure you k and od. But if man is making it, then we have risk at becoming overdosed.
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Speaker 3: And let me roll play here.
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Speaker 2: Say I'm buying marijuana, I'm not going to be asking whether or not as straight from the ground or if it's man made.
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Speaker 3: Am I I just want the drug?
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Speaker 4: No, that's correct.
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Speaker 2: It's safe to say that with the rage of synthetic marijuana. They're synthetic types of marijuana legal in Indiana, even though marijuana is not legal in Indiana, still being sold by man made and being able to undercut the law in some ways. If you can quantify, and I don't know if you can't, how much more dangerous is synthetic a man made marijuana over what's grown in the ground.
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Speaker 4: You know, Man, I've read anywhere from four hundred and eight percent stronger. That's what I've read. Now again is that I've not been able to really really feel that apart and corroborate that, but that's what I've read.
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Speaker 3: I mean, that's an amazing number. Four hundred to eight stronger, correct.
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Speaker 2: I Mean that just blows my mind, especially when I think about what my parents might have smoked in the seventies compared to tell, I mean, that would just just amazing.
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Speaker 4: It's it's nothing to mess with. It really is nothing to mess with.
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Speaker 2: Say you have a recovering alcoholic, an attic like myself, and I'm talking about my alcohol use, my opioid use, and whatever else might be in there, say ecstasy, cocaine, everything else is marijuana maybe a commonality coming up in a patient's drug history.
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Speaker 3: Do you hear a lot of marijuana but maybe not the drug of choice?
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Speaker 4: Yes, I hear it routinely. And in fact, if I look at the drug screens that we do, we do urine drug screens on anybody that's admitted over at Harbor Light, and I would say probably at least sixty percent of those drug screens have THC.
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Speaker 3: Oh wow.
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Speaker 2: Okay, So on top of the other drugs they're using, you always find more as something that they're using possibly addicted to. They think you're using it recreationally, but maybe it is part of your life, that awful monster, the disease of addiction. Have you found an increase since your time at Harbor Light in the decades of practicing, have you found an increase in marijuana use or is it mostly the same.
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Speaker 4: That's a good question. I think probably it's a little bit higher than it was several years ago. It's not a lot higher than it was several years ago. It's definitely more prevalent in drug screens that we do. I mean, I'm always amazed at the number of folks that come in and they're drinking and fifths a day and I find a little bit of weed in our drug screen. I'm always amazed at that. And you know a lot of these gentlemen that are at fifty sixty years old and they I just about tell they're only drinking. Maybe maybe not, I don't know, right, but no, I see it all the time. But to answer your question, and I think that probably goes along with the stuff that we can read about, is that the marijuana youth has not necessarily leveled off, but it is a reasonable increase over the last five or six years.
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Speaker 2: I would say, just to kind of recap what we've been talking about here, you can get addicted to marijuana. Marijuana is a lot more potent than what it used to be. Synthetic marijuana is atra dangerous. It can be four hundred to eight hundred times more potent than what it used to be. The deck sounds like it's stacked against us here. It really does.
00:18:57
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and it's it's why it's the Salvation Army. We deal with what we call hope over there. You know, it's wonderful to have your life back. I mean, I think he would attest to that, Matt. The ability to smile, the ability to dream, the ability to wonder, and to be productive and to be happy. Oh my gosh, it's a wonderful gift. A wonderful gift.
00:19:19
Speaker 2: The gift of recovery is something that it's I jokingly say, it's the only good decision I've made in my life. And I say that with a smile. And the fact this wasn't my decision that I made. I finally said, I'm ready those magic, beautiful words.
00:19:33
Speaker 3: But you know, people didn't for me. It was the process of recovery.
00:19:38
Speaker 2: It was the people that loved me when I didn't love myself. I made this, this conversation we're happy right now possible today.
00:19:45
Speaker 3: I mean, I wouldn't be speaking with you.
00:19:47
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have the joy of or the privilege of speaking with you today, doctor l Rosa.
00:19:51
Speaker 3: If it wasn't for the.
00:19:53
Speaker 2: Gift of recovery places like Harbor Like, which I've been to on multiple occasions.
00:19:57
Speaker 3: In the people, if I may say.
00:19:59
Speaker 2: So, are are just some of the most beautiful people I've ever met. You know, you could you can feel the love and compassion. And I love working with other alcoholics and addicts that are in recovery, and a lot of people that go through Harbor Like that work there. Mike can think of a half a dozen examples off the top of my head have been addicts or alcoholics in their time.
00:20:21
Speaker 3: And that's the cool thing. It's being able to talk to somebody.
00:20:23
Speaker 2: But uh, yeah, I didn't mean to get off on the beaten path there a little bit. I just love talking about recovery our patients right now, speaking about marijuana laced with fentanyl? Are you finding that as well or other nicotics when you go through the intake process, that there's something help.
00:20:39
Speaker 4: And I'm hearing that from them. I hear that from them every day. And they said, Doc, you're not going to believe how bad the supply is, how dirty the supply is, And I said, well, I do believe it. I know what I can see it. I hear it every day.
00:20:51
Speaker 2: And with that, there has to be some sort of alarm that goes off. I mean, you know, fentanyl the size a dose the size of a penny can kill you. And basically a dealer will put this in the marijuana to stretch the supply.
00:21:03
Speaker 4: That is correct. Yeah, how do you.
00:21:06
Speaker 2: Feel about marijuana for medicinal purposes? A prescription of marijuana? Do you think that I can tell.
00:21:14
Speaker 4: You what I've done in the last thirty five years of my own practice. I have tried things like marinol or dnabinol for multiple sclerosis. I've tried it for HIV weight loss. I've tried it for chronic cackexia and cancer, chronic nausea, for chemotherapy, and I give it about a C plus. It's not earth shatteringly wonderful, okay.
00:21:39
Speaker 3: And then you're talking about relieving the pain when you give.
00:21:42
Speaker 4: It a C plus? Correct? Okay, that is correct. I give it a C plus. So now what I don't know, and what I don't have a lot of experience with because I can't really tell yet, is is the influence of CBD as opposed to marijuana when it comes to patients like that. Because I don't typically ask people to you know, when you're hurting so bad, and I can't get you six or can't get you better, maybe out to try some CBD. I don't usually go down that road. And once again, I don't go down that road primarily because I'm not sure I trust the CBD supply anymore than I trust the marijuana supply. Sounds terrible, but I don't.
00:22:17
Speaker 2: Well, no, it's it's it's your professional opinion through years of treatment, and it's very much value. Do you think CDB exasperates the marijuana abuse problem? Do you think people are getting hooked on marijuana because they are using CBD?
00:22:33
Speaker 4: I don't know yet, Okay, I don't think. I don't think so though. I just don't know.
00:22:38
Speaker 1: Man.
00:22:38
Speaker 4: I can't tell from from from what they're using. I can tell you when you know, when people go to parties and they have their gummies or they have their CBD, and yet they're urine drug screens are positive for two weeks, it's it's really interesting. Yeah, And so I I don't.
00:22:56
Speaker 3: I don't.
00:22:56
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's making it a worse problem. I really don't.
00:23:00
Speaker 2: When you go to a party and you take a gummy and you think of their CDB and there's a very good chance there's going to be something.
00:23:05
Speaker 4: Else in it that's correct, that is correct.
00:23:08
Speaker 3: That could be THHC. You could be federal, it could be anything.
00:23:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, And gummies themselves are are strong because you don't feel the initial effect because it gets in your stomach and it takes a while to absorb, so you don't feel the initial effects. That you take more, and then you eat more, and you eat more guess lots. All of a sudden you've eaten a ton. Yeah, and you have more withdrawal than the average person would have. So it's interesting.
00:23:30
Speaker 2: And on that note, the people, the few people I know the use gummies, I mean they say they take one and use one word for a long story. They become intoxicated, like you cannot drive, and you know you shouldn't drive high to begin with, but they become what would be considered intoxicated. And again there's all these myths around marijuana that I've had so many friends say, yeah, I drive better when I'm stoned, and I'm like, I don't know, you don't know, you don't.
00:23:57
Speaker 4: I have heard that a gazillion times is jallion times? Oh my goodness.
00:24:02
Speaker 2: I also wanted to ask you about because this is another argument I hear from the And this isn't demonizing anything, you know, this is just you know, getting facts and from your expert opinion. But I often hear people argue that butdsinal marijuana would lower opioid abuse because marijuana something that's supposed to be natural, is it going to be there as opposed to the opioids which is manufactured. My man, do you think a legalization of marijuana would offset some of this opioid abuse?
00:24:33
Speaker 4: No, No, not at all.
00:24:34
Speaker 3: Interesting, I don't think that at all.
00:24:36
Speaker 4: No. I think what they're looking at that the most recent research says that it basically lowers your desire for pain medicine. It's let's say you got chronic back pain and you're taking a little bit of marijuana help you. It goes down by what one and a half percent, maybe in two percent, so you don't it's not that much. Remember, your opioid receptors are not going to go down until you get rid of those opie weight receptors are the ones that you're giving with the cent and all the ones you're giving with the narcotics. So if you lower it temporarily, I think it's probably what we're going to see is the temporary lowering of opioid addiction on marijuana. And then I think it's going to shoot back up again because you're you're still going to require more. If you're not going to want to get rid of what you're on or stop what you're on, it, you're going to require more time goes on.
00:25:24
Speaker 2: I believe what you said is just like any addiction. I mean, your tolerance builds with marijuana.
00:25:29
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, So I don't think it's going to lower the opioid addiction rate at all.
00:25:34
Speaker 2: And finally, and I know this isn't about you and what makes doctor Lorosa happy, but in treating addiction, and I think I know the answer here. Would legalizing, say a national legalization of marijuana make your job easier or more difficult in treating your patients and the quantity of patients.
00:25:52
Speaker 4: No, I would not make my life any better. In fact, it would make my life much more busy. And it's primarily because everything that's in the supply, everything that's in the fly, would would make it rougher. You know, the stuff is stronger, that was even more sentinel, there's more method, and said, I mean you spraying bug spray on the darn stuff, all this kind of thing. Now, legalizing it wouldn't make it better. And I also wondered, I can't tell for sure, because I'm not I'm just a silly family doctor in the trenches with my people. But what I can't tell is what the cartels would do if legalizing marijuana all over the place, how they would get around that, and my suspicion that they would sell their stuff cheaper. And my suspicion is the cheaper stuff is what people would buy, and the dispensaries would not be selling as much. I get that impression. And again, if we and so, then we are trusting the cartels to give us a clean supply of marijuana. Really hard from just Wallow.
00:26:51
Speaker 2: All the cartels want to do is make money. That's all they care about.
00:26:54
Speaker 4: Exactly. That's just me, Matt. Again, I haven't read that. I'm just I'm just spouting off a mouth here. It's me.
00:27:04
Speaker 2: You are the read you are the expert, You are the professional, which is why we appreciate this conversation and your candid answer so much. Finally, is there anything out there that really alarms you, doctor LaRosa that you might be seeing for the first second or third time a new drug or a new kind of trend in the drug world that you would like to caution are supporting sobriety listeners about the newest stuff.
00:27:27
Speaker 4: And I think you guys saw this over on the east side of town back in May or April, where six people overdose. And I think what it is. It's kind of like a bug spray and you're spraying bug spray onto marijuana on to tobacco and smoking it and it actually causes you to go into a zombie state. And I you know what's it called. I think it's called KD. I think is the name of the stuff.
00:27:51
Speaker 2: Okay, So that's what that is, Okay, because I was going to ask you, I'm glad you said that.
00:27:55
Speaker 4: Excellent, but I would be careful with all that kind of stuf. I really would.
00:28:01
Speaker 2: Well, it seems like that drug world always wants to stay one step ahead, key being the disease of addiction one step ahead, and which is why we have guys like you we could talk about on this podcast that God has given us. Doctor l Rosa always a pleasure, my friend, and if you need anything, just reach out to a good to know that you're out there treating people like Ran and.
00:28:20
Speaker 4: I very good. Thank you very much, Matt, and I wish you guys are best.
00:28:24
Speaker 2: Give us a minute and we'll have our closing thoughts when we come back and tell you how to hook up with the Supporting sobriety community here on the Supporting Sobriety Podcast. I had changed the locks, didn't even know where she was living, and one night she calls to say she's getting treatment.
00:28:43
Speaker 3: Can I drive? I almost hung up, but then I thought, that's my kid. I chose to put away to hurt and the fear and just see my girl.
00:28:54
Speaker 6: Addiction is a disease standing by a loved one as they fight it. We'll test your faith, patience, and santa, but it's possible when you see the person, not just their disease. Learn more at cbeyonde Addiction dot org.
00:29:07
Speaker 1: This is the Supporting Sobriety podcast.
00:29:17
Speaker 2: Supporting Sobriety podcast at Sobriety, Underscore, pod ont ex, Instagram, find us there, join the conversation please pretty please, And given this episode is on marijuana, we would love to hear from somebody who has a recovery program that includes THHC. I want to know how that works. I really do, and I'm not going to lie. I say, if you use THCHC as part of your recovery and it's working, more power to you. I want you to be happy. I want you to be your version of sober. That's not my version of sober. Maybe I'm ignorant. So if you want to shoot us message, shoot us a tweet, say something on Instagram, I you know, whatever you want to do and talk about your THCHC recovery, we'd love to hear from it.
00:29:59
Speaker 3: Again. This is not anti marijuana.
00:30:01
Speaker 2: No, as a matter of fact, and maybe Ryan can give his take care in the future episode. But if marijuana wants to be legal, go be legal. Marijuana, be yourself. Just stay away from us addicts and alcoholics.
00:30:13
Speaker 3: We can't. We can't be your friend.
00:30:16
Speaker 2: I just hate to say that. The humble nature, you know, recovery sought me so much humility. I don't want to say I can't be your friend. Even the marijuana makes me. Send take you to our guest doctor Michael de Rosa of Harbor Leda just a beautiful recovery center here in Indianapolis, Indiana. Homa supporting so Brady where Ryan and I broadcast, and speaking of Ryan, he's going to be back for the next episode. As I said at the beginning, he's on a personal matter which I'm hoping we will discuss here in a week or two, you know.
00:30:46
Speaker 3: And that's what recovery is.
00:30:47
Speaker 2: You share, you challenge yourself, you become uncomfortable, you talk about things, and it all makes you better. When Ryan and I talk about the gift of recovery and we talk about how beautiful it is, it's just that constant, that constant progress of becoming an adult and for us becoming men and learning integrity and learning the value of keeping your word, all those things we did not have, at least I did not have when I was using, when I was drunk all the time. I really think there's something too when you become addicted at a young age, whether it's your early twenties or your teens, it really stunts the growth process, that stunts the maturity process. Recovery has taught me so many things about humility. Recovery has taught me that you need to keep your word, that you need to be honest, because if you're not, you're going to be using again, and if I use again, I'm going to die. My last drunk almost killed me. It's going to be a very spiritual conversation.
00:31:45
Speaker 3: When Ryan gets back. We're going to talk about recovery. We're going to talk.
00:31:47
Speaker 2: About what he went through in the highs and the lows, and there's going to be both and at the end, I think it's going to have a very beautiful ending, and I want you to be part of that. As far as our weed smokers out there might be listening, the caregivers, dow enjoy yourself, feel better, Please don't become addicted. And if you think you're struggling, talk to somebody. You can always start with the person you trust the most. Okay, and that doesn't listen. You may not trust anybody right now, but the person you trust the most, the most non judgmental, somebody who can keep a secret. Maybe now, remember that secret's going to have to come out of you at some point. If you do have a problem, it's going to come from you. We make the decision. Nobody makes it for us. You can take us to treatment a hundred times. You can throw us in the back of the car, throw us in the trunk. We can be punching at the trunk, trying to get out, maybe get out, rollout onto the interstate, get hit by, I don't. Whatever it is, we have to make the final decision. We have to say those magic words. They are so beautiful and if you've heard of them, you know what I'm talking about. They hear the person you love the most say I'm ready, because damn it, that means we are.
00:33:00
Speaker 3: A beautiful thing.
00:33:00
Speaker 2: To be able to talk to you guys today, miss Ryan, miss the hell out of Ryan. He's going to be back for the next episode. This is such a blessing to be able to sit with you on the Supporting so Bridy podcast and for your listening, God bless you and thank you for being with us. You can find Supporting Sobriety at Sobridy, Underscore, pod on x and Instagram. However you're listening to you Supporting so Bridy, just keep it. If you have a friend that's looking more on any major podcast provider apples, Spotify, you can use any of those. Alan On is a fantastic group for you caregiver. I mean it's a bunch of caregivers in a room drinking coffee, swearing a lot and talking about the things that we're putting you through as addics and alcoholics and use. If you need a different kind of help, If you need a new friend, go to alan On. If you need a meeting, go to aa dot intergroup dot org, forward Slash meetings, and of course always reach out for help. Never go to the bitter end, Never go to the absolute end. Suicide Prevention hotline is eight hundred two seven read eight two five five available.
00:34:02
Speaker 3: Twenty four seven.
00:34:04
Speaker 2: And remember, when there's breadth, there's hope.
00:34:13
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Supporting Sobriety podcast
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Supporting Sobriety podcast, dedicated to the unsung heroes behind those struggling with addiction. They're friends and family like you who'll share insights, stories and resources to help you support your loved ones and care for yourself on the recovery journey.
00:00:24
Speaker 2: Supporting Sobriety Podcast at Sobridy, Underscore pod, on x or Twitter. I have no problems with marijuana. I mean, personally, I have a problem with that. I can't do it because I'm an addict. I'm a recovering addict and alcoholic. That's my problem with marijuana. As far as marijuana being legal, I have no problems with that. In fact, a little secret, I think it should be legal for people who are not recovering alcoholics and atics. And I know there are probably a thousand recovery programs out there that involve THHD.
00:00:50
Speaker 3: If that's your thing, more power to you.
00:00:52
Speaker 2: If you can keep THC for being a gateway drug, more power to you. But marijuana is so much stronger to day. Can you get addicted to marijuana? How much stronger is it? What are the dangers in a fednal world with marijuana? And we're going to talk about all this with doctor Michael Lrossa, who's from Harbor Light, a recovery center here at idiot app was a recovery center with a heart of gold, a huge heart.
00:01:18
Speaker 3: And it's not Hey, it's not a country club.
00:01:21
Speaker 2: You're not going to be playing frisbee golf at Harbor Light, but what you are going to get is a huge guid shot and a lot of love. And by the way, we are not affiliated in a business manner, Harbor Light and supporting so Brady podcast.
00:01:31
Speaker 3: We just really like each other. We help each other out.
00:01:36
Speaker 2: You know, recovery works, we keep it by giving it away and I kind of feel like that's with this podcast in harbor Light Center.
00:01:43
Speaker 3: It's really cool.
00:01:43
Speaker 2: Ryan Hedrick, the co host of this podcast, He's taking care of a personal matter.
00:01:48
Speaker 3: Today, which is why I'm speaking with you.
00:01:51
Speaker 2: Now by myself and hopefully and we've talked a little bit like Ryan and I do, and for the next episode when he comes back, I believe he wants to speak about this personal matter and from what I know about it, and he's going to tell the story. But from what I know about it, this is going to be the biggest god shot of your week. Maybe your month, because there's going to be the bad, there's going to be the good. There's going to be the bad, and then we're going to reach the sun and it's going to be this beautiful god shot at the end, and you're going to be like, You're going to be like.
00:02:21
Speaker 3: Man, I'm glad I sat through that. Man, I'm glad I listened to Ryan Hendrick today.
00:02:24
Speaker 2: It's it's I'm really excited to do it. That's why I'm talking about it.
00:02:28
Speaker 3: Recovery. You get all these things excited about you. Your just like whoa, Yeah, Recovery's awesome.
00:02:33
Speaker 4: Man.
00:02:34
Speaker 2: Four years and three months in change is what I'm on and I think Ryan's around there too. We just love doing this podcast today. The point is to speak about marijuana and kind of have a where are we at with this right now?
00:02:47
Speaker 3: Again? Can you get addicted? How strong is it? Where is it?
00:02:53
Speaker 2: What's in it? Really good questions that we'll speak with doctor LaRosa about. It is stronger what our parents smoke. The weed we have today is so much stronger than what our parents smoked. According to Bath University, this big time research university over in England, what Mam and dad smoked was fourteen percent weaker than what we have today.
00:03:15
Speaker 3: Hash the hashish.
00:03:17
Speaker 2: Twenty five percent more potent today than what it was fifty years ago.
00:03:21
Speaker 3: That's a hell of a number.
00:03:23
Speaker 2: The findings come from expert announced us of more than eighty thousand weed samples. So the control group is there. Yeah, and it's a study over last fifty years, starting in nineteen seventy.
00:03:34
Speaker 3: So basically the hash the grass ah so much stronger today than what we are smoking.
00:03:40
Speaker 2: Hey, can we get addicted to marijuana? I mean, I've been in recovery meetings in you know, as somebody might say I'm addicted to marijuana, and we kind of give him a sign kind of well, that's not heroin, that's not the one shot killed like Feederoh, you can't even know de.
00:03:54
Speaker 3: For marijuana at least, that's the common thinking. What else are you addicted to? Huh, God, it's got to be something else.
00:04:04
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about that with doctor larrosakev it up here, whether or not you can become addicted to marijuana, and whether or not, and don't throw anything at me, whether or not you can overdose on marijuana. I want to ask the question. I know the answer. The comed answer is no, No, you can't, Oh dummy, you can't overdose on marijuana. Everybody knows that it's a lot stronger than what it used to be. And what if it has fetanyl? Remember fentanyl dose size of the penny can kill you. You can die on heroin first time you use heroin. So if you're getting fentanyl, maybe an opioid into your weed, he could o d Maybe it's strong enough to make you of D. I don't know the answers, which is why we're going to speak with an expert.
00:04:49
Speaker 3: In a couple of minutes.
00:04:50
Speaker 2: Harvard Hell says today's cannabis products can contain levels of THC.
00:04:56
Speaker 3: You know, that's the buckaboo and weed. You know, the thing to make.
00:04:58
Speaker 2: Sure I as high as ninety percent, that's that's huge. It was two to three percent in nineteen seventy. So ninety percent THAC levels today compared to two to three percent in the nineteen seventies.
00:05:11
Speaker 3: That's from Harvard Health. I asked ai.
00:05:18
Speaker 2: Hey, it doesn't ever have to cite his sources, but hey, I says that nineteen seventies average THAC content one to three percent today is seventeen to thirty percent. So it's not saying ninety percent like Harvard, but that.
00:05:30
Speaker 4: Just is.
00:05:32
Speaker 2: THC content marijuana and cannabis is a lot higher today than what it was with her parents. Plus we have the risk of fentanol. So we have a lot to speak with doctor l Rosa about here in a minute or two. I wasn't ever, I wasn't a big wing guy. I was an opiate guy. Of course, I was an alcoholic alcoholic. My wife that was always there, alcohol would never leave. But it was opioids that they were. My muse says, they're my harem.
00:06:00
Speaker 3: Love the opioids.
00:06:01
Speaker 2: You could put a nuclear bomb dex and me set the timer and I'd start laughing if I was on oxacon and that.
00:06:06
Speaker 3: Sounds like a good time.
00:06:07
Speaker 2: Well, you know, wait until you're a week later and you keep having to build up that tolerance and then you can't get any and it feels like alligators are eating your legs. Yeah, they included in the withdrawal symptoms. They absolutely worse. But I was never a big weed guy. I always made an ass in myself when I was doing weed. Now, there was a period in my late teens early twenties where I was smoking grass all the time. But that was just masking the fact that I felt like a miserable fuck all the time. Yeah, and but it never made me feel good about me.
00:06:37
Speaker 3: I could not talk.
00:06:39
Speaker 2: I'm bad at talking to women to begin with, especially once I'm attracted to. But I tell you what, I would smoke grass and I wouldn't be like that woo, No, I would like go hide in a quarter man. It was we'd maybe so paranoid, took all those things, all those insecurities inside of me and just doubled down.
00:06:55
Speaker 3: That's not the case with a lot of people. A lot of people can use.
00:06:59
Speaker 2: Marijuana without becoming addicted. They can use marijuana without any social stigma. They can be a sacrament. We have a church here in Indianapol, what it's called the First Church of Cannabis and Marijuana is the sacrament. Now, I think it was started for political reasons more than anything, but it's.
00:07:16
Speaker 3: There and it's their sacrament.
00:07:18
Speaker 2: People can use marijuana without becoming addicted. And more power to you, man. I hope the government treats you rightan I hope you get your medicinal use. There's also speaking of medicinal uses, there's also an argument out there that legalizing marijuana would cut back the use of opioids, which I.
00:07:37
Speaker 3: Am really in favor for.
00:07:39
Speaker 2: If you give somebody marijuana and opioids, I hope they choose marijuana. Yeah, gungs up your lungs. It does things. But man, oh man, my experience with both, I would rather come off marijuana and opioids any day of the week, twice on Sunday. Those opioids hook you. They can hook you legally and you're off to the races.
00:07:59
Speaker 3: There. This suck, especially with the withdrawal symptoms.
00:08:04
Speaker 2: All right, let's take a second here again. Ryan's coming back for the next episode.
00:08:07
Speaker 3: We can't wait.
00:08:07
Speaker 2: We really miss him. Spiritual lion, right. Hedrick our co host of the Supporting Sobridy podcast, And when we come back, you and I are going to talk to doctor l Rosa about marijuana, it's strength, addiction, and where we are at today.
00:08:24
Speaker 3: That's next on the Supporting Sobridy Podcast. I found hope in the midst of an overwhelming situation.
00:08:30
Speaker 5: Alcoholism can affect any family. Are you in an overwhelming situation? Because if someone else is drinking, alan On and Altein can help call eight sixty six two zero zero zero zero three three or visit allanon dot org slash hope.
00:08:44
Speaker 1: This is the Supporting Sobriety podcast.
00:08:53
Speaker 2: Supporting Sobriety podcast at Sobriety Underscore pod on x and Instagram.
00:08:57
Speaker 3: You can find us there.
00:09:00
Speaker 2: Speaking about a few minutes ago, we wanted to talk to our friend friend of Supporting Sobriety, doctor Michael LaRosa of Harbor Light Recovery Center in Indianapolis, Indiana, the home of Supporting Sobriety. We want to talk about marijuana, and I do have experience in use, being recovered down coaholic and the recovering addict. I did do a fair share of marijuana when I was in my late teens and early twenties.
00:09:25
Speaker 3: It was never really my thing, but I.
00:09:27
Speaker 2: Know a cannabis continues to become more and more popular in the United States today. So we welcome back doctor LaRosa to the Supporting Sobriety Podcast.
00:09:39
Speaker 3: Doctor LaRosa, great to have you.
00:09:41
Speaker 2: Remind us again what exactly are your responsibilities at Harbor Light.
00:09:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm the medical Detalks manager over there, and we take care of just about everything, you know, alcohol, cocaine, myth and satamin olucima, jens anything really that people can get in trouble with. We try to detox them, and we have different regimens and different timeframes of how we detox them over there. And then once we're done with the acute stuff, we get him into residential treatment, we get him into transitional housing and things like that. That's what I do every day over there.
00:10:14
Speaker 2: Well, first questions first, because it's something that I hear that you can't become addicted to marijuana and want to ask you the professional, can you become addicted to marijuana?
00:10:23
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, you can, Matt. Absolutely. I'd say probably one out of ten people can become addicted just after using initiating the drug and they'll develop a cannabis use disorder, you know, one out of six teenagers and get addicted. And probably daily users, you know, twenty five thirty percent of those folks can become addicted. So it does get an addicted potential to it.
00:10:49
Speaker 2: Yes, And I spoke about this a little bit ago, doctor l Ross. According to statistics CDC included how easy it is to become addicted to marijuana, and if we start using in our adolescent years, it increases the chance that adults we will become addicted to marijuana.
00:11:07
Speaker 3: Do you agree with that thesis?
00:11:09
Speaker 4: Absolutely? And we see that with other substances across the board too. The earlier that you drink, the more difficulty you're going to have getting rid of that alcohol. The same way with the opiates as well. But yes, absolutely, twelve to eighteen, I would say, what was there reading earlier that half of the admissions to treatment centers for young people twelve to eighteen is for marijuana use.
00:11:34
Speaker 2: And I remember in my recovery experiences in Rehabilitaian centers so many I want to say kids. I mean, I'm in my mid forties now, but as so many young adults and teenagers in these recovery centers, and you know, they're addicted to the marijuana, they're addicted, yes, to the opians and the heroin, and they're getting involved in such an early age. And I get two with my drinking, in my drug use, I started at an early age. You know, it's a blessing to be in recovery. I love being recovering alcoholic. But here we are, you know, here we are. I started early and I quit late.
00:12:10
Speaker 4: Yep, you are a classic example, Matt, of what we're struggling with. Really, in general.
00:12:14
Speaker 2: The philosophy, you know, what we're smoking with marijuana isn't the same as what our parents were smoking back in the civities. Do you believe that marijuana is stronger today than what it used to be?
00:12:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, it's it's probably three times stronger than it used to be.
00:12:29
Speaker 3: Can you overdose on it?
00:12:31
Speaker 4: There has not been a documented death to marijuana, both the light stuff and the heavy, guerrilla strength stuff that we can document. That said, is the marijuana supply clean? The answer is no. And is the marijuana supply lace with all kinds of stuff that you can overdose from Sentinel and K two and all this kind of jazz. Absolutely it is. So that's where the marijua want a lobby points to, Look, we haven't had an overdose death from marijuana ever documented, And then they say, well, you know what, it's the lowest guy on the totem pole regarding cocaine and methamphetamine and alcohol and tobacco. It's the lowest one on the totem pole. So it's got to be safe. That's the perception, and that is a deadly, deadly, deadly trap as far as I'm concerned.
00:13:22
Speaker 2: So the lobby essentially would say, there's nobody overdosing on marijuana. But they're talking about the stuff that comes directly from the ground and that's all there is in it. They might be leaving on the fact that marijuana could be laced with fentanyl or an opioid.
00:13:37
Speaker 3: Is that correct?
00:13:38
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is absolutely correct. And and and that's the frustration that we get into trying to trying to treat this, because you know, the marijuana lobby is a voracious group of souls. They they they will they will go to the mat and they will present every bit of research that's not necessarily peered reviewed right in front of you. And now basically they see it's okay, it's just a dangerous, dangerous toy, guys, a very dangerous toy, particularly with what's in it now, very dangerous.
00:14:07
Speaker 2: Well in the mists surround it. That you can't overdose on it. I mean that as an addict. That would stick in my head and I would use that as a catalyst to go using marijuana.
00:14:18
Speaker 3: I'd say, hey, I can't no different it. You know what's the problem, and.
00:14:21
Speaker 2: You know the positives people discuss, you know, with the medicinal purposes, and you know, you hear a lot more good about marijuana these days than bad. And it's not like I want to demonize the thing, but I'm sorry. Addiction is addiction, and if you become addicted to it, it can become lethal.
00:14:37
Speaker 3: Is that a hypothesis? Is that safe?
00:14:39
Speaker 4: That is very safe?
00:14:41
Speaker 2: Talking with doctor Michael LaRosa of Harbor Light Recovery Center at Idiot Apples Home is supporting sobriety and we want to move our You said something a little bit earlier, you talked about the gorilla, the big bad gorilla of marijuana. Were you referencing possibly synthetic marijuana when you said that the stuff that people make, well.
00:15:00
Speaker 4: Even if you just use the stuff that they're always cultivating new stronger strengths of marijuana. I'm talking about the stuff that is now compared to what in the nineteen seventies. But when it comes to synthetic, oh my goodness, how many hundreds of times more potent is it than even the really hard regular stuff that people are using now? Much much more potent now, that is a totally different animal. And guess what there are overdoses with that.
00:15:29
Speaker 2: Oh okay, So if it comes from the ground, that's the argument. If it's just pure you k and od. But if man is making it, then we have risk at becoming overdosed.
00:15:39
Speaker 3: And let me roll play here.
00:15:41
Speaker 2: Say I'm buying marijuana, I'm not going to be asking whether or not as straight from the ground or if it's man made.
00:15:46
Speaker 3: Am I I just want the drug?
00:15:48
Speaker 4: No, that's correct.
00:15:50
Speaker 2: It's safe to say that with the rage of synthetic marijuana. They're synthetic types of marijuana legal in Indiana, even though marijuana is not legal in Indiana, still being sold by man made and being able to undercut the law in some ways. If you can quantify, and I don't know if you can't, how much more dangerous is synthetic a man made marijuana over what's grown in the ground.
00:16:12
Speaker 4: You know, Man, I've read anywhere from four hundred and eight percent stronger. That's what I've read. Now again is that I've not been able to really really feel that apart and corroborate that, but that's what I've read.
00:16:27
Speaker 3: I mean, that's an amazing number. Four hundred to eight stronger, correct.
00:16:34
Speaker 2: I Mean that just blows my mind, especially when I think about what my parents might have smoked in the seventies compared to tell, I mean, that would just just amazing.
00:16:44
Speaker 4: It's it's nothing to mess with. It really is nothing to mess with.
00:16:49
Speaker 2: Say you have a recovering alcoholic, an attic like myself, and I'm talking about my alcohol use, my opioid use, and whatever else might be in there, say ecstasy, cocaine, everything else is marijuana maybe a commonality coming up in a patient's drug history.
00:17:05
Speaker 3: Do you hear a lot of marijuana but maybe not the drug of choice?
00:17:09
Speaker 4: Yes, I hear it routinely. And in fact, if I look at the drug screens that we do, we do urine drug screens on anybody that's admitted over at Harbor Light, and I would say probably at least sixty percent of those drug screens have THC.
00:17:20
Speaker 3: Oh wow.
00:17:21
Speaker 2: Okay, So on top of the other drugs they're using, you always find more as something that they're using possibly addicted to. They think you're using it recreationally, but maybe it is part of your life, that awful monster, the disease of addiction. Have you found an increase since your time at Harbor Light in the decades of practicing, have you found an increase in marijuana use or is it mostly the same.
00:17:45
Speaker 4: That's a good question. I think probably it's a little bit higher than it was several years ago. It's not a lot higher than it was several years ago. It's definitely more prevalent in drug screens that we do. I mean, I'm always amazed at the number of folks that come in and they're drinking and fifths a day and I find a little bit of weed in our drug screen. I'm always amazed at that. And you know a lot of these gentlemen that are at fifty sixty years old and they I just about tell they're only drinking. Maybe maybe not, I don't know, right, but no, I see it all the time. But to answer your question, and I think that probably goes along with the stuff that we can read about, is that the marijuana youth has not necessarily leveled off, but it is a reasonable increase over the last five or six years.
00:18:36
Speaker 2: I would say, just to kind of recap what we've been talking about here, you can get addicted to marijuana. Marijuana is a lot more potent than what it used to be. Synthetic marijuana is atra dangerous. It can be four hundred to eight hundred times more potent than what it used to be. The deck sounds like it's stacked against us here. It really does.
00:18:57
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and it's it's why it's the Salvation Army. We deal with what we call hope over there. You know, it's wonderful to have your life back. I mean, I think he would attest to that, Matt. The ability to smile, the ability to dream, the ability to wonder, and to be productive and to be happy. Oh my gosh, it's a wonderful gift. A wonderful gift.
00:19:19
Speaker 2: The gift of recovery is something that it's I jokingly say, it's the only good decision I've made in my life. And I say that with a smile. And the fact this wasn't my decision that I made. I finally said, I'm ready those magic, beautiful words.
00:19:33
Speaker 3: But you know, people didn't for me. It was the process of recovery.
00:19:38
Speaker 2: It was the people that loved me when I didn't love myself. I made this, this conversation we're happy right now possible today.
00:19:45
Speaker 3: I mean, I wouldn't be speaking with you.
00:19:47
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have the joy of or the privilege of speaking with you today, doctor l Rosa.
00:19:51
Speaker 3: If it wasn't for the.
00:19:53
Speaker 2: Gift of recovery places like Harbor Like, which I've been to on multiple occasions.
00:19:57
Speaker 3: In the people, if I may say.
00:19:59
Speaker 2: So, are are just some of the most beautiful people I've ever met. You know, you could you can feel the love and compassion. And I love working with other alcoholics and addicts that are in recovery, and a lot of people that go through Harbor Like that work there. Mike can think of a half a dozen examples off the top of my head have been addicts or alcoholics in their time.
00:20:21
Speaker 3: And that's the cool thing. It's being able to talk to somebody.
00:20:23
Speaker 2: But uh, yeah, I didn't mean to get off on the beaten path there a little bit. I just love talking about recovery our patients right now, speaking about marijuana laced with fentanyl? Are you finding that as well or other nicotics when you go through the intake process, that there's something help.
00:20:39
Speaker 4: And I'm hearing that from them. I hear that from them every day. And they said, Doc, you're not going to believe how bad the supply is, how dirty the supply is, And I said, well, I do believe it. I know what I can see it. I hear it every day.
00:20:51
Speaker 2: And with that, there has to be some sort of alarm that goes off. I mean, you know, fentanyl the size a dose the size of a penny can kill you. And basically a dealer will put this in the marijuana to stretch the supply.
00:21:03
Speaker 4: That is correct. Yeah, how do you.
00:21:06
Speaker 2: Feel about marijuana for medicinal purposes? A prescription of marijuana? Do you think that I can tell.
00:21:14
Speaker 4: You what I've done in the last thirty five years of my own practice. I have tried things like marinol or dnabinol for multiple sclerosis. I've tried it for HIV weight loss. I've tried it for chronic cackexia and cancer, chronic nausea, for chemotherapy, and I give it about a C plus. It's not earth shatteringly wonderful, okay.
00:21:39
Speaker 3: And then you're talking about relieving the pain when you give.
00:21:42
Speaker 4: It a C plus? Correct? Okay, that is correct. I give it a C plus. So now what I don't know, and what I don't have a lot of experience with because I can't really tell yet, is is the influence of CBD as opposed to marijuana when it comes to patients like that. Because I don't typically ask people to you know, when you're hurting so bad, and I can't get you six or can't get you better, maybe out to try some CBD. I don't usually go down that road. And once again, I don't go down that road primarily because I'm not sure I trust the CBD supply anymore than I trust the marijuana supply. Sounds terrible, but I don't.
00:22:17
Speaker 2: Well, no, it's it's it's your professional opinion through years of treatment, and it's very much value. Do you think CDB exasperates the marijuana abuse problem? Do you think people are getting hooked on marijuana because they are using CBD?
00:22:33
Speaker 4: I don't know yet, Okay, I don't think. I don't think so though. I just don't know.
00:22:38
Speaker 1: Man.
00:22:38
Speaker 4: I can't tell from from from what they're using. I can tell you when you know, when people go to parties and they have their gummies or they have their CBD, and yet they're urine drug screens are positive for two weeks, it's it's really interesting. Yeah, And so I I don't.
00:22:56
Speaker 3: I don't.
00:22:56
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's making it a worse problem. I really don't.
00:23:00
Speaker 2: When you go to a party and you take a gummy and you think of their CDB and there's a very good chance there's going to be something.
00:23:05
Speaker 4: Else in it that's correct, that is correct.
00:23:08
Speaker 3: That could be THHC. You could be federal, it could be anything.
00:23:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, And gummies themselves are are strong because you don't feel the initial effect because it gets in your stomach and it takes a while to absorb, so you don't feel the initial effects. That you take more, and then you eat more, and you eat more guess lots. All of a sudden you've eaten a ton. Yeah, and you have more withdrawal than the average person would have. So it's interesting.
00:23:30
Speaker 2: And on that note, the people, the few people I know the use gummies, I mean they say they take one and use one word for a long story. They become intoxicated, like you cannot drive, and you know you shouldn't drive high to begin with, but they become what would be considered intoxicated. And again there's all these myths around marijuana that I've had so many friends say, yeah, I drive better when I'm stoned, and I'm like, I don't know, you don't know, you don't.
00:23:57
Speaker 4: I have heard that a gazillion times is jallion times? Oh my goodness.
00:24:02
Speaker 2: I also wanted to ask you about because this is another argument I hear from the And this isn't demonizing anything, you know, this is just you know, getting facts and from your expert opinion. But I often hear people argue that butdsinal marijuana would lower opioid abuse because marijuana something that's supposed to be natural, is it going to be there as opposed to the opioids which is manufactured. My man, do you think a legalization of marijuana would offset some of this opioid abuse?
00:24:33
Speaker 4: No, No, not at all.
00:24:34
Speaker 3: Interesting, I don't think that at all.
00:24:36
Speaker 4: No. I think what they're looking at that the most recent research says that it basically lowers your desire for pain medicine. It's let's say you got chronic back pain and you're taking a little bit of marijuana help you. It goes down by what one and a half percent, maybe in two percent, so you don't it's not that much. Remember, your opioid receptors are not going to go down until you get rid of those opie weight receptors are the ones that you're giving with the cent and all the ones you're giving with the narcotics. So if you lower it temporarily, I think it's probably what we're going to see is the temporary lowering of opioid addiction on marijuana. And then I think it's going to shoot back up again because you're you're still going to require more. If you're not going to want to get rid of what you're on or stop what you're on, it, you're going to require more time goes on.
00:25:24
Speaker 2: I believe what you said is just like any addiction. I mean, your tolerance builds with marijuana.
00:25:29
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, So I don't think it's going to lower the opioid addiction rate at all.
00:25:34
Speaker 2: And finally, and I know this isn't about you and what makes doctor Lorosa happy, but in treating addiction, and I think I know the answer here. Would legalizing, say a national legalization of marijuana make your job easier or more difficult in treating your patients and the quantity of patients.
00:25:52
Speaker 4: No, I would not make my life any better. In fact, it would make my life much more busy. And it's primarily because everything that's in the supply, everything that's in the fly, would would make it rougher. You know, the stuff is stronger, that was even more sentinel, there's more method, and said, I mean you spraying bug spray on the darn stuff, all this kind of thing. Now, legalizing it wouldn't make it better. And I also wondered, I can't tell for sure, because I'm not I'm just a silly family doctor in the trenches with my people. But what I can't tell is what the cartels would do if legalizing marijuana all over the place, how they would get around that, and my suspicion that they would sell their stuff cheaper. And my suspicion is the cheaper stuff is what people would buy, and the dispensaries would not be selling as much. I get that impression. And again, if we and so, then we are trusting the cartels to give us a clean supply of marijuana. Really hard from just Wallow.
00:26:51
Speaker 2: All the cartels want to do is make money. That's all they care about.
00:26:54
Speaker 4: Exactly. That's just me, Matt. Again, I haven't read that. I'm just I'm just spouting off a mouth here. It's me.
00:27:04
Speaker 2: You are the read you are the expert, You are the professional, which is why we appreciate this conversation and your candid answer so much. Finally, is there anything out there that really alarms you, doctor LaRosa that you might be seeing for the first second or third time a new drug or a new kind of trend in the drug world that you would like to caution are supporting sobriety listeners about the newest stuff.
00:27:27
Speaker 4: And I think you guys saw this over on the east side of town back in May or April, where six people overdose. And I think what it is. It's kind of like a bug spray and you're spraying bug spray onto marijuana on to tobacco and smoking it and it actually causes you to go into a zombie state. And I you know what's it called. I think it's called KD. I think is the name of the stuff.
00:27:51
Speaker 2: Okay, So that's what that is, Okay, because I was going to ask you, I'm glad you said that.
00:27:55
Speaker 4: Excellent, but I would be careful with all that kind of stuf. I really would.
00:28:01
Speaker 2: Well, it seems like that drug world always wants to stay one step ahead, key being the disease of addiction one step ahead, and which is why we have guys like you we could talk about on this podcast that God has given us. Doctor l Rosa always a pleasure, my friend, and if you need anything, just reach out to a good to know that you're out there treating people like Ran and.
00:28:20
Speaker 4: I very good. Thank you very much, Matt, and I wish you guys are best.
00:28:24
Speaker 2: Give us a minute and we'll have our closing thoughts when we come back and tell you how to hook up with the Supporting sobriety community here on the Supporting Sobriety Podcast. I had changed the locks, didn't even know where she was living, and one night she calls to say she's getting treatment.
00:28:43
Speaker 3: Can I drive? I almost hung up, but then I thought, that's my kid. I chose to put away to hurt and the fear and just see my girl.
00:28:54
Speaker 6: Addiction is a disease standing by a loved one as they fight it. We'll test your faith, patience, and santa, but it's possible when you see the person, not just their disease. Learn more at cbeyonde Addiction dot org.
00:29:07
Speaker 1: This is the Supporting Sobriety podcast.
00:29:17
Speaker 2: Supporting Sobriety podcast at Sobriety, Underscore, pod ont ex, Instagram, find us there, join the conversation please pretty please, And given this episode is on marijuana, we would love to hear from somebody who has a recovery program that includes THHC. I want to know how that works. I really do, and I'm not going to lie. I say, if you use THCHC as part of your recovery and it's working, more power to you. I want you to be happy. I want you to be your version of sober. That's not my version of sober. Maybe I'm ignorant. So if you want to shoot us message, shoot us a tweet, say something on Instagram, I you know, whatever you want to do and talk about your THCHC recovery, we'd love to hear from it.
00:29:59
Speaker 3: Again. This is not anti marijuana.
00:30:01
Speaker 2: No, as a matter of fact, and maybe Ryan can give his take care in the future episode. But if marijuana wants to be legal, go be legal. Marijuana, be yourself. Just stay away from us addicts and alcoholics.
00:30:13
Speaker 3: We can't. We can't be your friend.
00:30:16
Speaker 2: I just hate to say that. The humble nature, you know, recovery sought me so much humility. I don't want to say I can't be your friend. Even the marijuana makes me. Send take you to our guest doctor Michael de Rosa of Harbor Leda just a beautiful recovery center here in Indianapolis, Indiana. Homa supporting so Brady where Ryan and I broadcast, and speaking of Ryan, he's going to be back for the next episode. As I said at the beginning, he's on a personal matter which I'm hoping we will discuss here in a week or two, you know.
00:30:46
Speaker 3: And that's what recovery is.
00:30:47
Speaker 2: You share, you challenge yourself, you become uncomfortable, you talk about things, and it all makes you better. When Ryan and I talk about the gift of recovery and we talk about how beautiful it is, it's just that constant, that constant progress of becoming an adult and for us becoming men and learning integrity and learning the value of keeping your word, all those things we did not have, at least I did not have when I was using, when I was drunk all the time. I really think there's something too when you become addicted at a young age, whether it's your early twenties or your teens, it really stunts the growth process, that stunts the maturity process. Recovery has taught me so many things about humility. Recovery has taught me that you need to keep your word, that you need to be honest, because if you're not, you're going to be using again, and if I use again, I'm going to die. My last drunk almost killed me. It's going to be a very spiritual conversation.
00:31:45
Speaker 3: When Ryan gets back. We're going to talk about recovery. We're going to talk.
00:31:47
Speaker 2: About what he went through in the highs and the lows, and there's going to be both and at the end, I think it's going to have a very beautiful ending, and I want you to be part of that. As far as our weed smokers out there might be listening, the caregivers, dow enjoy yourself, feel better, Please don't become addicted. And if you think you're struggling, talk to somebody. You can always start with the person you trust the most. Okay, and that doesn't listen. You may not trust anybody right now, but the person you trust the most, the most non judgmental, somebody who can keep a secret. Maybe now, remember that secret's going to have to come out of you at some point. If you do have a problem, it's going to come from you. We make the decision. Nobody makes it for us. You can take us to treatment a hundred times. You can throw us in the back of the car, throw us in the trunk. We can be punching at the trunk, trying to get out, maybe get out, rollout onto the interstate, get hit by, I don't. Whatever it is, we have to make the final decision. We have to say those magic words. They are so beautiful and if you've heard of them, you know what I'm talking about. They hear the person you love the most say I'm ready, because damn it, that means we are.
00:33:00
Speaker 3: A beautiful thing.
00:33:00
Speaker 2: To be able to talk to you guys today, miss Ryan, miss the hell out of Ryan. He's going to be back for the next episode. This is such a blessing to be able to sit with you on the Supporting so Bridy podcast and for your listening, God bless you and thank you for being with us. You can find Supporting Sobriety at Sobridy, Underscore, pod on x and Instagram. However you're listening to you Supporting so Bridy, just keep it. If you have a friend that's looking more on any major podcast provider apples, Spotify, you can use any of those. Alan On is a fantastic group for you caregiver. I mean it's a bunch of caregivers in a room drinking coffee, swearing a lot and talking about the things that we're putting you through as addics and alcoholics and use. If you need a different kind of help, If you need a new friend, go to alan On. If you need a meeting, go to aa dot intergroup dot org, forward Slash meetings, and of course always reach out for help. Never go to the bitter end, Never go to the absolute end. Suicide Prevention hotline is eight hundred two seven read eight two five five available.
00:34:02
Speaker 3: Twenty four seven.
00:34:04
Speaker 2: And remember, when there's breadth, there's hope.
00:34:13
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Supporting Sobriety podcast
