WEBVTT
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All right.
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Good evening, good afternoon, good morning from wherever you're joining us from.
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I'm excited to be here.
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It's a it's a big one.
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I'm here with Dr.
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Ike, uh very uh knowledgeable biopharma professional.
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I'm gonna read a short bio now.
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Uh, Dr.
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Ike is an international internal medicine physician and also biopharma executive with more than 20 years of clinical practice and biopharma industry experience.
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Dr.
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Ike helps biopharma founders and life science leaders turn science into strategy and strategy into impact for patient purposes.
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And we're excited to be here.
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We're going to be talking about his book, The Triangle of Leadership.
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The Triangle of Leadership.
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And helping welcome my guest, Dr.
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Ike, uh, to the podcast.
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Thank you.
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Thank you.
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Thank you, Dr.
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Tolu.
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I really am really honored and thrilled to be on your podcast.
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I've been a fan, I've been following you for months now, and I'm I was excited when you reached out uh for me to come chat.
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So thank you.
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All right, thank you, thank you for being here.
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All right, if you're here, please let us know that you let Dr.
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Ike know that you're here.
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Uh tell us where you're joining us from, your name, where you're joining us from.
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If you have a question for Dr.
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Ike, uh, please put it in the chat so we can both learn from his book, The Triangle of Leadership.
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Uh very good book.
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Uh, one of the things that I really like about the book, uh, the simplicity of it, the simplicity of communication there, and also the action items you have uh at the end of the book.
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Uh, so we're gonna get into the book now, uh, so we can really understand the book very well.
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All right, so in the book, uh, you said leadership is what people do, it's what people do because of you, right?
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If people are doing nothing because of you, that means you're not leading.
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And that uh made me think about influence, right?
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That means that we have to have influence and things like that.
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So, uh, how would you define uh influence and how can we increase our influence on people?
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Thank you.
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That's a fantastic question, Dr.
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Tolu.
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Um, for me, influence is all about putting other people's needs before yours.
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Uh, the more you can put other people's needs before your own needs, the more you gain influence.
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And I have to be careful about distinguishing it from manipulation.
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Manipulation is when you're doing things for your own needs, uh, or you have ulterior motives uh when you're trying to do something.
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So influence is all about putting other people's needs before yours.
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And for me, the way to build influence, and I talk about this in the book, as I call it the three C's.
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The first one is building connection, uh building clarity, and building conviction.
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And how do you build connection is by having empathy, listening, and trying to understand what people's problems are or what their pain points are or their triggers, and trying to find solutions, trying to help them find solutions.
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And the more you do that, the more you can build connection, the more you can build trust.
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And then clarity is always being clear on your vision or clearing your goals.
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And when people are understand the goals or understand the vision, it's easier uh for them to uh to follow.
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And the final piece is conviction, it's just sharing with people that what you do is matters.
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Because if people if people don't believe in what you're doing or if what you're or the solution you're providing is not relevant to them, it's hard for them to build conviction.
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So once you combine those three things, you can increase your influence.
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Wow, thank you.
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Thank you for sharing that.
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Uh, increasing that thank you for joining, Erica.
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Erica Diaz from Houston.
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All right, thank you for joining.
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These are uh Texas people.
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Thank you for joining.
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All right, so now that will lead me to uh the definition that I found very interesting in your book.
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Also, uh, leadership is the ability to attract followers to you.
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Yes, and I I try to contrast that with the definition from one of my mentors, John C.
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Maxwell, yes, which says that leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less.
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Yes, yeah, I love it.
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Which is very important because you just define influence and how to increase that influence.
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Thank you for sharing that with us.
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But then, so looking at the definition of followership, anything that you would like to say in addition to what you've already said, because you were very detailed in your answer just now, but anything additional you want to say?
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Yeah, I mean, by the way, I want to acknowledge John Maxwell.
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He's also a big mentor of mine.
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I read a lot of um his stuff and I reference a few of his principles in my book.
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So I definitely agree with his definition of influence, but I'm a first principles thinker, so I like to break things down even simpler to the simplest level.
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I do agree that leadership is all about influence, but on the fundamental level, if you're influencing someone, they're gonna follow you.
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So I wanted to take it, give an even simpler decision.
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If you're a leader, it means people are following you.
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And if people are following you, it means somehow you're influencing them.
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So influence is a second pillar of the three triangles, but I try to make my division definition even more simpler and even more fundamental, and that's why I define leadership as the ability to attract followers.
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Yes, good.
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Thank you.
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Because you start from yourself, but it doesn't end with yourself.
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Yeah, you're you're actually influencing followers.
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Thank you.
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That means a lot of us are in trouble.
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Then if this if this influence, if this influence is so important and we don't have it, then uh there's a problem here, right?
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So because also in your book, you said most people never develop influence, right?
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Maybe including myself, they resist delegation and hold on to execution, they stay in control and stay small because of that.
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And this seems like the path that most people will take in life until they they leave this this planet Earth because they're probably not paying attention to things that's supposed to pay attention, or just there's something that is beyond their control.
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Based on your experience in business and in biopharma, in life generally, uh, what would you why would you say what would you say is the reason why people just leave just make sure that uh the control is out of their hands and um things follow this path, which is not what we really want.
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Okay.
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First, before I answer the question, I like to disagree with you when you say you don't you don't feel like you're influential.
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By the way, just by the number of people who are dialed into the podcast right now tells you that you're attracting, you've already attracted followers, and there's something that you're doing that's influencing people to want to listen to your podcast.
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For me to want to be on your podcast, it means that you're influential and your podcast is also a form of leverage, which is the third pillar because you have a voice, you have a message that you're trying to share, and you're sharing it with a lot of people at the same time through your podcast.
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Your podcast is live on LinkedIn, it's on Facebook.
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That really impressed me.
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And so I would like to disagree that I think you already are practicing all three pillars.
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You're an expert in your field, you're an expert in what you're doing, you're very influential on social media, and you're leveraging media to to to um to solve problems for people.
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But to get to your question, there are different levels of leadership.
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What I'm really hearing is that you want to make your level even higher.
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Like for me, I wrote this book as a cheat code for success.
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That's what it is.
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It's it's really a cheat code for success.
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And if you notice, every really successful person that you know of is a leader in some capacity or another.
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That's why I titled it about leadership.
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But what I was really trying to share is the cheat code from my 20 years of school and almost 20 years of practice.
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Everything that I learned about success, I try to simplify it and put it as a cheat code in this book.
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And so um there are different levels of leadership, and John Maxwell even talks about it in his book, and I really love the way he talks about it.
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The first level um is positional leader, people are following you just because you have a title.
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Second one is um I I um I think is uh there's a productive leader, there's a leader, there's a level where people follow you because of your track record of results.
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There's a level where people follow you because of your reputation.
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So if you want to elevate your levels of leadership, you got to practice those two things we talk about uh in the book, which is elevating your mastery of a topic or a system.
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I I like to say, for instance, both of us are in the healthcare and we're we're experts in healthcare.
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Um, we went to school, became physicians to become an expert in healthcare.
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So that first foundational later layer is becoming an expert.
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Then the second layer is building your influence through uh connection, clarity, and conviction.
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And then the final piece is leverage, trying to use a leverage to either build a system or replicate a system that continues to operate without even you being there, and that's where leverage comes.
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And there are different forms of leverage, which we get into in the book as well.
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Good, good.
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Thank you.
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Yeah, we're gonna talk a lot about leveraging.
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Uh so thank you for sharing that.
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Um, so one of the things that I also want to talk about is people who have a feel that they are not a leader, or this kind of conversation does not concern them.
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And and you talk about value creation in the book, in which case value creation can also somewhat can make somebody become a leader, uh, because uh leadership is not really about the title.
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You just say that, right?
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So, how can people here hearing your voice or anywhere?
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How can they start in their leadership joining?
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How can they use value creation to lead at their level?
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Uh maybe leading themselves first, leading people and leading systems, as you said in your book.
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Yeah, by the way, I love how you're plugging my book every time putting it up.
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Fantastic.
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Thank you, thank you.
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Um, so for me, you get you have to start by figuring out what problem in society that you want to solve.
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I think it starts from that.
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And it has to be a problem uh that the that the market wants, or the or uh uh because if you want to solve a problem and no one cares about that problem, it's hard to uh build influence or uh or value.
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Okay, so first thing is talk to yourself, figure out which system there's an uh uh there that you want to tackle, whether it's healthcare, banking, real estate, media, you know, there's all different types of systems, and you have to pick first start with what system you want to work through, and then figure out what kind of um problem you want to solve, and then you take your time to become a master in that system, that way you can solve that problem.
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For me, there are three different ways to develop yourself in a system.
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One is through education, the second is through exposure, and the third is through experience.
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Once you combine those three things, that's how you become a master at a system, and then you can be able to identify problems and quickly identify solutions, and that's how you become an expert.
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And once you become an expert, that's when you start attracting followers.
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Um, people I I talk about this in my book, The First Law, is that people are more attractive to utility than your vision.
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Everyone thinks that a leader is the one who comes up with the best vision.
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No, a leader is the one who solves problems, who solves people's problems.
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People will follow you because you can solve their problem before they even know what your vision is.
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So um, I hope that answers your question.
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All right, indeed.
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All right, thank you so much.
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Thank you for sharing that.
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That's really powerful.
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Uh, you mentioned systems, uh that's the highest level, and it's kind of like very challenging for a lot of people in terms of understanding systems, and then people who get to the other side of that now have some trust issues with systems.
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Uh leaders who have trust issues, they like they lack trust in in teams and systems, and that can also be a problem.
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Uh, and that's part of what you you mentioned in the book.
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So, based on your experience, what are the reasons that people have trust problems in systems and teams, and what are the ways that uh you you think uh that can be overcome along the way?
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Well, from my personal experience, um, first of all, every system, whether it's healthcare, banking, you know, there's always some flaws in a system.
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No system is perfect, and there's flaws in every system.
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Um, and what makes things worse is that the more powerful people become, or more financially rich people become, they're more prone to abuse that power.
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And so I think it's really important for you to have integrity and stay true to yourself so that when you reach that level of success, you use that power or those finances for good than for selfish needs or for greed.
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I think greed and power has caused more problems in society today than anything else.
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So I think you have to be cognizant about staying grounded, always staying grounded, even when you achieve success.
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A lot of money, a lot of success tends to bring out your true nature or your your your bad, your bad side.
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So it's always important to stay grounded.
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That's why I continue to like go back home, like like, you know, even though I've been in the US now for over 30 years, I still like to go back to Nigeria to see where I came from and not to take for granted all the success that I've achieved in the U.S.
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You know, there's still a lot of poverty where I came from.
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This even here in the US, I like to give back, I like to go to underserved communities, underserved places, just to stay grounded.
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Because I think the more empathetic you are, the easier it is to build trust.
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And the more people trust you, the more influential you can become, and the bigger and better a leader or more impactful leader you can become.
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So I think uh if you want to avoid corruption, if you want to avoid abusing power, it's really important to stay grounded.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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Well, good, good.
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Thank you for sharing that.
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That's really powerful.
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Also, me coming from Nigeria, having a similar story as yours, uh, I can connect to what you're saying and why you're saying what you're saying.
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Uh, but you mentioned something now that is very interesting to me.
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Uh uh talking about uh giving back, talking about systems, talking about the fact that uh we have to understand uh where we're coming from, uh, but then it could be very challenging because uh systems can uh be can can be very uh varying as you move from one environment to another environment.
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It it means that um we also have to understand the environmental factor when it comes to leadership.
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So how how does the environment impact the success of a leader and how how can a leader adjust to such environment?
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Yeah, well, me, I think being an immigrant has given me an unfair advantage uh because being an immigrant forces you to be adaptable, forces you to be able to withstand adversity and change.
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And so I think one of my superpowers as a leader is being very resilient and being adaptable to change.
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You know, I've lived, you know, I was born in Nigeria, lived there for many years, lived in the US for many years.
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I'm well traveled, I've been to close to 30 countries in the world.
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So I've experienced different perspectives, different cultures, different countries.
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I've worked for more companies than most people.
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You know, like I've worked in some of the largest pharmaceuticals in the world, and I've also worked for many biotech startups.
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I've I've uh experienced the highest of highs and the lowest of lows.
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I've been through acquisitions, I've been through restructuring, I've been to failed startups, I've been to through exits, two exits.
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And so the more you experience highs and lows, the more adaptable you become, the more resilient you come.
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And my secret is anytime I experience adversity, I use that as fuel uh for change or for success or to grow.
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You know, anytime something bad happens to me, I think to myself, what can I learn from this experience?
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Or what uh how can I use this experience to elevate myself?
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For example, writing this book, I went through a layoff, you know, and instead of sitting and wallowing in my in my misery that, oh, yet another layoff, I said, What can I do during this time uh to grow myself?
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And so one of the things I you know, I've been wanting to write a book for over 20 years now, and I've taken so many notes, you know, I read a lot of leadership books, including John Maxwell that you mentioned, and I took notes over the years, but I never had time to write a book or never had the motivation to write a book.
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And so when after my most recent layoff, I said, I'm gonna use this time to actually organize my thoughts, organize my notes, and write this book.
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And so secret is just um just being adaptable to change.
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I think that really helps in your career journey.
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All right, good.
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Thank you.
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Thank you for sharing that.
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Thank you for sharing that.
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I really appreciate that.
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So if you're here, uh please let us know that you're here, where you're joining us from.
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If you have a question, you have a comment, you agree with what you're saying, you disagree, you have something you want to share, a knowledge, a perspective, an example, illustration, whatever it is, we want to hear it uh so that we know that uh we are also uh get get getting something back from the community that we belong to.
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Right.
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Uh thank you for sharing that.
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Uh that means that uh leadership is something that we all have to think about, uh, we all have to do something about and uh stay really educated about.
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So in the book, you mentioned that uh it's very possible for people to have a competitive advantage in leadership, right?
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And uh and you encourage individuals to find out what that is for each individual.
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So uh if somebody is thinking to themselves, how can I do that?
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How can I know my competitive advantage?
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Uh where can they start from?
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Do you have any activity for them to do or uh something to think about?
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For me, I think the biggest trick is avoiding competition.
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I don't like to compete with people.
00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:23.200
Um rather than focusing on competition, I focus on creation.
00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:26.319
How can I create something different?
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:28.880
How can I be unique?
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:32.160
How can I be me, authentically me?
00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:36.160
No one can compete with you at being yourself.
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:39.599
Um, I'll give you a prime example of me.
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:54.240
How many physicians have you met that immigrated from Nigeria, went to Yale University, practiced medicine, now is a pharmaceutical executive, and is also an author.
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:59.839
You know, just combining your unique experiences and your unique backgrounds.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:10.880
And focusing on that, focusing on what you're good at, focus on what comes easy to you, focus on skill acquisition and value creation.
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:14.559
I'm always focusing on how can I get better, how can I learn more?
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:16.000
How can I be more?
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.359
And then I'm always focusing on how can I add more value.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:32.400
I think if you focus on skill acquisition, value creation at scale, and being authentic to yourself, you can avoid competition and you can create new ideas, new things.
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:34.000
Wow, thank you.
00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:34.960
Thank you.
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:39.759
Focusing on how unique we can be, the things that we can do differently.
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:42.319
That means no two individuals are the same.
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:42.720
Yeah.
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:50.319
I I like to say that even though we have we try to do things very well, we don't have the same opportunities in life.
00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:53.599
Yeah, not two individuals have exactly the same opportunities.
00:22:54.160 --> 00:23:00.079
And uh uh what whatever we do with the opportunity that we have, uh that's what it's gonna be.
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:05.119
And even in the Bible, it says that whatsoever your hand find it, do it.
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:10.319
It didn't say, Well, you should practice law, it didn't say uh you should you should practice medicine.
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:12.400
People always forget that.
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:14.079
Thank you for sharing that.
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:15.519
Um Sally is here.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:16.799
Thank you for joining, Sally.
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:17.920
Uh saying uh Dr.
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:21.599
Ogba is a real life example of going after it all.
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:23.200
Yeah, that's that's good.
00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:24.880
Thank you, Sally.
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:26.400
Thank you, thank you, Dr.
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:28.400
I thank you for sharing all this.
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:33.200
Oh, that there's something that you mentioned earlier on that um got my attention.
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:40.480
When you were saying that, well, it's very important for a leader to be able to empathize, empathy.
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:42.079
All right, it's very important.
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:51.440
Uh there's this feeling that's this thing thing going around that when a a leader decides to empathize with followers, they're a weak leader.
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:54.079
Where do we get that from?
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:58.640
And how do you how do you deal with people who have that kind of mindset?
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:01.440
I disagree with that personally.
00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:05.279
Um, being apathetic has never worked for me as a leader.
00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:09.440
Um I'd rather be called a weak leader and be empathetic, you know.
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:34.160
Um, for me, how can you build influence without genuinely caring and genuinely listening to the people who are following you or understanding their needs, understanding their own individual lived experiences, because the same thing can happen, but two or three people interpret it completely differently.
00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:46.480
So you may think you may you're adding value from your perspective, but whatever you think is value from your perspective is completely different from you know what the other person is uh is seeing.
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:53.759
So if you really want to be influential, if you really want to be impactful, you have to have empathy.
00:24:53.920 --> 00:25:02.960
I I find it challenging to find a really successful leader or really impactful leader that lacks empathy.
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:11.119
That's very for me, those tend to be more dictators than than actual leaders or managers than true leaders, you know.
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:14.160
Right, yeah, that's a different conversation entirely.
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:20.480
People try to understand the difference between uh management and leadership, which is not exactly the same.
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:23.920
Yeah all right, thank you, thank you for mentioning that.
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:28.000
So, also earlier on you you mentioned clarity.
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:36.000
Uh leaders should be able to communicate clearly uh in the book, the triangle of leadership, your book.
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:42.079
All right, you write that clarity drives execution.
00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:47.680
And I I come up with these, uh I saw it rather, not didn't come up with it, I saw it somewhere.
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:52.960
Uh, the greatest illusion of communication is that it took place when it did not.
00:25:53.599 --> 00:26:00.559
That means that sometimes we feel that we're communicating with somebody, but in actual sense, we did not communicate with them.
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:03.839
So that means that's a problem of communication, right?
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:08.400
It's uh it's very difficult to talk about leadership without talking about communication.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:14.480
Uh, because that's I I have I have one of the organizations that I belong to, uh Toastmasters International, right?
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:16.480
Yeah.
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:18.400
Yeah, I think thank you so much.
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:25.680
So uh so that we we have leadership roles, we do things, but then it's very difficult to do that without having the communication piece of it.
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:40.480
So uh my question to you, based on your experience in business, in bipharma, career-wise, uh personal-wise, um, how do you what method do you use to confirm to people that you actually communicate with them?
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:41.519
Yeah.
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:44.480
Well, the first thing is ask.
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:49.599
Ask or ask um if what you're doing is resonating with them.
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:51.519
That's one tactic I use.
00:26:51.839 --> 00:27:00.240
The other tactic I use is trying to rephrase or reframe what I think I heard them trying to communicate with me.
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:14.960
Uh, so it's all about giving feedback or not, and sometimes not just by asking for feedback, because sometimes people will tell you what you want to hear when you're it's paying attention to the nonverbal view.
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.880
I think body language tells a lot more than what people tell you.
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:26.559
So uh the best leaders I've ever worked with, um, they're really good at reading people's body language.
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:31.920
You don't have to say something to know whether what you're telling what they're telling you is resonating.
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:41.920
And so when you notice that what you're saying is not resonating, try to ask more questions to see to make sure that what you're trying to communicate is resonating.
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:47.519
So for me, it's all about eliciting feedback either verbally or with non-verbal cues.
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:50.319
Right, good, good, thank you.
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:51.519
Thank you so much.
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:55.279
Uh, thank you for for going a little bit in depth into communication.
00:27:55.359 --> 00:28:00.160
Uh, because uh, we usually we say that communication is 50 body language.
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:03.920
And I've even seen 70, but yeah, yeah.
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:06.960
Well, yeah, at least more than more than 50, 70.
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:12.400
But then we we we forget that a lot because then we only rely on what somebody's saying.
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:16.880
So somebody can be saying A, but their body language is saying B.
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:19.359
Then the question is which one do you go with, right?
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:26.960
If what they're saying is different from the uh the what they're actually um trying to say with their body language.
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:39.279
So so around that, what I really want to know is sometimes somebody is saying this is okay, and sometimes you eventually find out it's not okay, right?
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:42.640
Because that they didn't really mean to say it's okay.
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:57.599
And I've seen people actually get punished for this, even in the in personal life and also uh even in in their career life, because they thought somebody something was okay, and uh it was not really okay.
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:05.680
Personally, I I think we moved away from emotional intelligence quickly to artificial intelligence.
00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:06.960
Yeah, that's true.
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:11.599
Because now we're focusing a lot on artificial intelligence.
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:26.880
You go to a conference and you have like uh trendy sessions talking about artificial intelligence, but we don't talk about emotional intelligence anymore, yes, which is now becoming a problem now because we we're kind of shifting to one side of the whole story.
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:53.519
So is there any experience or any advice you want to give a institution whereby uh somebody's saying something and what they're saying is actually very different from what they're saying in uh professional life and personal life, how can one identify that quickly and adjust to the fact that what you're hearing is different from the body language that you're actually seeing?
00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:54.480
Yeah.
00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:58.480
Well, I love what you said about emotional intelligence.
00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:15.359
Um, you know, one thing that I've learned from studying and observing the greatest leaders I've worked with, and um, is that the best leaders aren't necessarily the best experts, like technical experts.
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:20.160
The best leaders I've found in my career, and to name some of them, Dr.
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:24.319
Charlotte Jones Burton, uh, she's a great leader.
00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:46.240
Um uh like there are a lot of leaders that I've worked with, and their magic that I've seen is that they have high emotional intelligence, and I think emotional intelligence, that currency, is gonna be even more valuable now that AI has blown up so much.
00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:57.839
And so one thing I've learned, and this is why I wrote this book, I'm always trying to anticipate where things are going and get there first before everyone is there.
00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:05.680
Right now that everyone is focused on AI, first of all, I was studying AI three, four years ago before it became really popular.
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:18.079
I I went to MIT, got a certification in AI and healthcare and pharma just to learn, took a lot of certifications, but now AI is all you hear, it's in vogue and things like that.
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:25.839
So I'm thinking of the next move, which to me is going to be all about emotional intelligence, and I think that's gonna be very valuable.
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:31.839
And just before I talk more about emotional intelligence, I like to share my definition, you know.
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:44.799
For me, is your ability to regulate your thoughts, your feelings, action, or the thoughts, feelings, and actions of others.
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:59.359
So if you can master master yourself or master being able to master how to control other people's thoughts, feelings, and actions through influence and leverage that we talked about, that's how you gain emotional.
00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:05.920
And I think we've gone through many evolutions in society.
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:09.920
First, it was all about mastering um labor.
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:13.440
That's where these manufacturing companies came.
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:19.359
Then then it went to mastering um uh data, uh data.
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:23.200
Uh then it went through mastering, like now.
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:30.079
I think we're going through an era of mastering attention, who can capture the most attention with social media, media, things like that.
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:32.799
Then you're going to the era of AI.
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:38.319
I think the next level will be all about the era of emotional intelligence.
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:49.599
Because if you have robots doing everything, or robots, you're gonna look for more people who are empathetic, who have better judgment, who have better insights, who can read the room better, and things like that.
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:58.480
So, an advice for you, and another reason to go buy the book is to continually work on your emotional intelligence.
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:04.319
I think if you can master emotional intelligence, that's the secret recipe to master leadership.
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:10.640
And that's why influence is a critical pillar, and influence is all about emotional intelligence.
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:27.039
Uh, and so if you can master that pillar, not just being a technical expert, but being an expert in emotion, and then being able to combine both with leverage to master or build the system, that's when you become the ultimate leader.
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:28.880
Wow, thank you.
00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:30.319
Thank you for sharing that.
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:38.240
Uh, in your book, uh, still in line with emotional intelligence, influence, uh, you talk about the people factor, right?
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:59.279
How complex emotional is emotional experiences and people's emotion is, uh, how that can be very unpredictable, how can that can be driven by incentives that people need to receive, uh, response to fear, desire, and identifying with the particular identity, right?
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:13.920
So uh this seems that for a leader, yeah, yeah, there are some things that is beyond the control of a leader that you just you're just gonna hope that things go well along the way, and the people factor is part of it.
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:19.519
Uh, I know you said something about uh clarity, connection to enclose influence.
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:42.400
So that's that will probably take care of part of this, but what other things do you think can help to interact with people knowing fully well that uh they are they have emotion, they are they can be very uh unpredictable, uh they're driven by incentives, they can respond to fear, desire, and identity.
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:49.280
As a leader, how have you been able to manage and walk around all that kind of emotions that uh people have?
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:56.880
Well, I I um um I I've come up with frameworks to help me stay grounded.
00:34:56.960 --> 00:34:58.800
Uh, so that's my trick.
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:04.239
Another one of my mentors, a leader I admire, Tony Robbins, he talks about this.
00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:09.360
Um, it's all about controlling, focusing on things that you can control.
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:20.480
Yeah, uh, you know, no matter how all the craziness that's happening around you, if you focus on things that you can control, that's how you become effective as a leader.
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:22.800
So, what are the things that you can control?
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:33.840
Um instead of focusing on what happened in the past or focusing too much on what's gonna happen in the future, focus on now, what you can do now, what you can control now.
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:42.880
You know, instead of focusing on things that you missed out on, focusing on things that you don't have, focus on the things that you do have.
00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:53.119
For instance, during a layoff, people focus in, oh, I don't have a job, but why don't you turn that focus into I have more time now?
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:55.119
What can I be doing with that time?
00:35:55.280 --> 00:36:07.440
You know, so changing your focus and focusing on things that you can control rather than things you can't control is what helps you weather the storm when things are happening all around you.
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:10.159
Wow, wow, thank you so much.
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:12.239
Uh, thank you for thank you for sharing that.
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:13.199
That's really powerful.
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:15.760
So now now that we're talking about job, right?
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:18.800
Uh uh in your book, right?
00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:25.440
You also mentioned something about uh if you master a role, you become replaceable.
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:30.079
If you master a system, you become indispensable.
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:43.840
Yes, so that means that there's uh there's a way to look at uh what you're doing in terms of a role that's very limited, and mastering systems of which is like it's just the moving part, multiple parts together.
00:36:44.079 --> 00:37:07.679
And uh if somebody is having a job now and they're thinking of how how can I do this, how what are the things to think about, what are the things to do, how can somebody see their work that can make them understand the system and not just the role that they have, so that maybe it's gonna be very difficult to say, well, now that we can do this by ourselves, I think uh we we're good.
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:14.480
Uh so so that the person can uh be indispensable, just like you said uh in your book.
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:15.360
Yeah.
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:18.800
So for I'll give you a prime example in my life.
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:24.639
So at a very young age, I would say as early as 10 years old, I knew I wanted to be in healthcare.
00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:33.679
And my reasoning, my why of wanting to be in healthcare was to help improve health, health, and relieve suffering.
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:36.559
And so that's why I wanted to be uh in healthcare.
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:40.639
So, how do I how do I master the healthcare system?
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:57.440
First of all, I went to medical school, you know, four years med school, did my three years of residency and practiced for four years where I did nothing but see patients, you know, but I didn't stop there because I know that healthcare is just beyond taking care of patients.
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.079
There's a lot of stuff involved in healthcare.
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:08.320
There's health policy, there's a pharmaceutical part of healthcare, there's the payer side of healthcare, there's the access side of healthcare.
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:16.800
So I wanted to master all aspects of healthcare, and that's why I didn't just stop at being a traditional clinical physician.
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:24.400
So I joined the pharmaceutical industry in order to master other aspects of healthcare, and I believe I successfully did that.
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:33.199
So I started off, so I told myself I want to learn how a drug is developed from the lab all the way to commercialization.
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:41.519
So the first part of my career I spent with a contract research organization just doing nothing but phase one clinical trials.
00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:48.960
And if you're not familiar, phase one trials is the first time individuals take a drug, healthy patients take it and things like that.
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:52.960
And so I did over 50 phase one clinical trials.
00:38:53.199 --> 00:39:02.719
I went from there to working at a biotech, uh, it's called Lexicon Pharmaceuticals, based here in Texas, where I designed phase two and phase three trials.
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:11.039
So I worked on phase one, worked on phase two trials, worked on phase three trials, then I transitioned to medical affairs.
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:25.440
My first job was at Merck, where I was a medical science liaison, and that taught me how to talk to physicians, talk to key opinion leaders, educate people on science, so and learn how a drug gets commercialized.
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:30.719
Then I worked my way up through all the roles in medical affairs from the field.
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:38.239
I came into in-house to a strategic role, held various strategic roles, launch various drugs.
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:45.840
Then I transitioned to build-in medical affairs organizations as a medical um leader, medical affairs leader.
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:48.159
So I built startups from scratch.
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:51.039
I accelerated teams that are already built.
00:39:51.280 --> 00:40:03.440
You know, then my final role was as a chief medical officer where I went back beyond phase one to do preclinical studies, formulate drugs, figure out how to file an NDA.
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:10.079
So I have literally worked from the bedside to the marketplace, commercializing drugs.
00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:21.760
So all aspects of the healthcare value chain, from developing drugs in the lab to commercializing drugs to taking care of patients who need drugs, I've done it all.
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:25.760
So I consider myself a true master of the healthcare system.
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:31.360
So let's say I get laid off, I can go back to clinical practice and take care of patients.
00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:41.199
Or if I was a patient, seeing patients, and for some reason I can't see patients anymore, can go back to the pharmaceutical industry, or I can go do clinical trials.
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:53.039
So it makes me very resistant to the changes that are happening in the society and makes me very marketable that I can do different things uh in the healthcare value chain.
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:54.719
Wow, thank you.
00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:56.559
That's a very detailed answer.
00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:57.119
Thank you.
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:00.559
Thank you for joining Barbara Salami.
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:01.599
Uh thank you.
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:03.519
Uh, she said great conversation.
00:41:03.679 --> 00:41:07.599
Thanks for leadership of an insight from Dr.
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:08.320
Ike.
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:10.880
Uh, thank you so much, and thank you for creating the space.
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:11.840
Yeah, thank you so much.
00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:13.199
Amazing, by the way.
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:17.440
I want to give her a special shout out because she's talking about AI.
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:24.960
If you're not already a part of her kindly L C K A I N D L Y, please go join.
00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:29.519
You'll learn everything you need to know about AI and the pharmaceutical value chain.
00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:31.519
So learning to acknowledge Barbara.
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:33.679
That's another role model of mine.
00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:34.400
So yeah.
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:35.360
All right, good.
00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:36.880
Thank you for joining, Barbara.
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:38.960
Yeah, we'll check you out in AI.
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:40.079
Thank you for joining.
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:57.119
All right, so uh so you you based on this story that you gave us, you started a clinician, you started uh also uh seeing patients now, pharma uh starting uh MSL now that you talk to you you're in the leadership part of things and things like that.
00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:03.199
Uh that means that you must have learned a lot of things about execution, uh executing things like that.
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:10.320
So in the book, uh it was a little thing about execution, uh execution is key.
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:17.199
Uh, I also read somewhere that uh innovation is rewarded, but execution is worshipped.
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:19.599
Yes, it's it's things like that.
00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:26.800
So uh, based on all this experience that you have, what is the most valuable lesson you've learned about execution?
00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:36.800
Uh well, my number one lesson about execution is complexity is and uh is the enemy of execution.
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:57.920
If you want to get things done, you have to learn how to make things simple, and that's why I'm a big fan of first principles in any problem that I'm trying to solve, I try to break it down to this to the to the fundamental fundamentals or the simplest pieces, and try to make it simple to execute.
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:01.280
And so I never have more than three priorities.
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:10.559
Anyone who's worked with me or worked under me knows that whenever I'm goal setting or making priorities, I always limit it to three at a time.
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:14.880
Because whenever you have more than three priorities, you have no priorities.
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:16.960
So I always like to keep things simple.
00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:23.199
That's why, even in my book, The Triangle of Leadership, I narrow it down to three concepts and I focus it down.
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:28.880
So my greatest trick about execution is to try to make things simple.
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:32.639
The simpler you make things, the easier it is to execute.
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:34.400
Everybody talks about strategy.
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:44.880
Strategy is like a buzzword in the corporate world, but the true remarkable leaders of those who can combine strategy with execution.
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:55.840
And that's why they always call me if you need someone to help launch a drug or build a team, I'm your guy because not only have I mastered strategy, I've mastered execution.
00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:01.119
And the trick for me for execution is born, I use the Parerdo's rule.
00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:09.039
Everything you know, everything that's out there, there's 20% of things that are responsible for 80% of results.
00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:13.280
So I always focus on that 20%, and I keep it simple.
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:29.199
Like in medical affairs, for me, the three things are stakeholder engagement, evidence generation, um uh evidence generation slash evidence dissemination, stakeholder engagement, and medical education.
00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:30.000
Those three things.
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:37.920
If you focus on those three things, that's responsible for 80% of the results that medical affairs brings to the value chain.
00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:43.360
So I master those three concepts, I make it very simple and easy to execute.
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:45.280
Wow, thank you.
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:46.400
Thank you for sharing that.
00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:48.159
That's that's very powerful, right?
00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:55.280
Uh making things simple so that um execution can be very easy and people can understand that.
00:44:55.760 --> 00:45:02.880
All right, so uh you also said in your book about um execution, right?
00:45:03.039 --> 00:45:04.719
It's starting from decisions, right?
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:09.760
You said decisions expose you, pressure reviews you, and results refine you.
00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:22.079
And uh you give us some examples already concerning how that can uh look like, but um are there any examples of the things that you were thinking about?
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:27.280
Uh so what are the pressures, for example, that you you experienced along the way?
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:38.800
Uh what are the uh what are you what were you exposed to that changed the way you see life, that same change the way you see humanity, that changed the way you see healthcare, yeah.
00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:48.400
That uh you know you're always gonna carry along with you, even if you're gonna start a business tomorrow, this particular lesson that you learn in healthcare is gonna go with you.
00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:49.760
Which what would that be?
00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:55.920
Well, thanks for asking that question because I'm in the middle of writing my next book on this topic.
00:45:56.079 --> 00:45:56.719
Okay, yeah.
00:45:57.039 --> 00:46:10.800
So having worked for some of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world and also working for biotech, with the large companies, I've learned about scale and discipline.
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:18.639
Uh, with with the smaller companies, I've learned about speed and agility.
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:19.440
Agility.
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:26.320
And so if you can combine those four concepts, I think you can you can build the ultimate recipe.
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:30.320
And so I was fortunate.
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:37.199
Um, in the latter part of my career, the first biotech company I worked for, it was Chinook Therapeutics.
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:39.599
We experienced a nice exit.
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:59.440
But ever since then, I've I've worked for two or three other companies that were not successful, and what I learned from those unsuccessful experiences, and I'll focus on biotechs because I think that's the market I want is that I want to teach, even though I would love to get back to the big um big companies.
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:20.320
But I find that the secret to biotech's companies being successful, again, I break it down to the first principles, comes down to the science, it comes down to the funding of the capital, how much money they have, and how well they stretch the money.
00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:30.400
And the third piece is the head count, whether you hire too fast, hire too slow, whether you hire too many full-time versus too many consultants.
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:34.239
So the trick is balancing those three equations.
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:38.159
And if you can get that right, you'll be a successful company.
00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:52.559
So I've worked for companies that have amazing science, amazing science, but they hired too many people too quickly and they burned through capital so fast that they went bankrupt, even though they had a great asset.
00:47:53.039 --> 00:48:05.679
Or I worked for another company that had great science but was not able to raise enough money to feed uh uh that science, and the company became devalued.
00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:07.199
So it's not enough.
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:19.199
So when I first started looking for jobs in biotech companies, I always looked at the science and looked at people, whether they have great leaders or the track record of success and the people.
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:21.599
But I've learned that it just doesn't stop there.
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:28.800
You can have great science, you can have great people, but if you don't manage the capital right, the the company can still fail.
00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:33.360
Or if the science is not solid, the company uh can still fail.
00:48:33.519 --> 00:48:50.960
So I'm constantly looking at the balance between the science, the strength of the science, uh, how much capital and how they're managing the capital, and then hiring how well they're they're the org um the org chart, whether they're hiring too fast, hiring too slow, things like that.
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:57.039
So keep that in mind as you're evaluating biotech or if you want to start your own biotech and things like that.
00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:00.320
So just want to acknowledge that I also have a consulting firm.
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:09.280
It's called Eroco Life Sciences Consult uh Advisory, where advise CEOs and startup leaders on on these topics.
00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:11.199
So yeah, yeah, good.
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:12.719
Well, thank you for sharing.
00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:13.679
That's very powerful.
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:16.960
That that might be one of the reasons why roles are cancelled, right?
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:22.000
Because you see a role that is how there, somebody apply for the roles, they say, Well, we actually cancel this role.
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:22.800
Like, yeah, what's good?
00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:23.280
What's going on?
00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:24.719
Are you guys still like me or what?
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:31.920
So that that might actually uh explain the reason why they actually do that.
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:33.360
Uh thank you for sharing that.
00:49:33.519 --> 00:49:40.719
Um, Barbara also said uh making the complex simple and having dynamic range is really key.
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:42.000
Uh, thank you for sharing that.
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:46.079
Again, if you're here, you're part of the podcast, let us know that you're here.
00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:49.119
Uh, please put your name, where you're joining us from, in the chat.
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:54.559
And also if you have questions, if you have comments, if you have encouragement or discouragement.
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:56.639
We also take discouragement.
00:49:58.000 --> 00:49:58.559
Thank you.
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:01.599
If you have anything to say, uh, we want to hear from you.
00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:02.480
Thank you so much.
00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:08.559
Uh, so you you just talk about scale, and that's part of what you talked about in your book.
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:09.679
Uh, very important.
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:11.760
Uh, you said something in the book.
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:16.239
If it stops when you stop, you do not have a leverage.
00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:20.880
My question is, when should a leader start thinking about leverage?
00:50:21.199 --> 00:50:23.840
Hmm, right away.
00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:28.800
And and this is something that's why I'm putting this in the book, and it's a cheat code.
00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:36.719
Everyone thinks to thinking about leverage at the end of their career or when they have 10, 15, 20 years of experience.
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:43.519
But if you start thinking about leverage at the beginning of your career journey, you can be a lot more successful.
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:45.920
And how do I define leverage?
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:56.559
Being able to do more with less, being able to do more with less, or essentially your output divided by your input.
00:50:56.800 --> 00:51:05.199
And that's part of the reason why I left traditional practice taking care of patients to work in the pharmaceutical company.
00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:18.480
Because I realized I was seeing about 15 to 20 patients every day when I was in practice for hypothetical reasons, even though no, even though I know it's not true, but let's say it takes me an hour to see a patient.
00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:26.320
If I wanted to impact a million patient lives, it would take me a million hours to impact those patients.
00:51:26.559 --> 00:51:33.119
But the curve, so when I'm in traditional practice, my time is very linear.
00:51:33.280 --> 00:51:36.400
The the time versus value is very lyric, linear.
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:38.159
There's not a lot of leverage there.
00:51:38.320 --> 00:51:46.000
As opposed to now that I'm in the pharmaceutical industry, some of the drugs I've worked on have impacted millions of lives.
00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:48.880
And it doesn't require that one-to-one time.
00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:53.760
There's asymmetrical returns in the value that you're producing.
00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:05.599
So a trick to success as a leaser, as a leader, or maximizing your impact is trying to use leverage to amplify whatever value you're trying to provide to society.
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:19.679
And that leverage can be through labor, which is other people's time, or capital, which is other people's money or other people's resources, or media like this, this platform, other people's uh attention, or tech.
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:26.000
I call it OPT, other uh technology, whether it's AI or software, apps, things like that.
00:52:26.320 --> 00:52:33.920
So marrying um leverage with the problem you're trying to solve maximizes your impact.
00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:35.440
Wow, thank you.
00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:41.760
Marrying the leverage with a problem, first know the problem, then marry the leverage with a problem that you're trying to solve.
00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:42.719
That's very good.
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:50.960
Well, you just say something about success, and the thing about success is that uh success is the way you you can measure it different ways.
00:52:51.039 --> 00:52:54.400
One of the ways to to measure success is money, right?
00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:57.280
Cash because uh bills get paid, right?
00:52:57.440 --> 00:52:58.400
Bills have to be paid.
00:52:58.480 --> 00:52:59.920
So we have to think about all that.
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:06.079
Also, and also in your book, you mentioned that how people can move from different levels of income.
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:18.559
Uh so I just wanted to also say it here what are the different levels of income and how can a leader effectively move from the lowest level of income to a higher level of income?
00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:19.199
Yeah.
00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:25.599
Well, I don't want to make it about income, I'll just keep it general to say different levels of success.
00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:26.559
Okay, yeah.
00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:38.159
Um, for me, I think the lowest level is when you're in survival mode, when you're trying to earn enough to pay your bills, keep a roof over your shoulder, make sure you're safe.
00:53:38.320 --> 00:53:38.559
Okay.
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:48.079
And I think the next stage is the achievement stage when you're trying to collect accolades, whether it's degrees, certifications, you know.
00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:54.159
I went through that phase where I you know went to Yale, got my bachelor's, went to Rutgers Medical School.
00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:55.920
That's the achievement stage.
00:53:56.079 --> 00:54:09.440
Then when I transition from traditional practice to pharmaceutical, that's the third stage, which was impact, when I'm trying to maximize impact, trying to provide more value at scale.
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:11.280
That's the third phase, I call it.
00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:16.639
And this is another book that I'm working on until I have two books going on at the same time.
00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:33.360
And then the fourth stage to me is ownership level, where you own your time, uh, where you own what problems you want to solve, uh, what who you want to work with when you have ownership.
00:54:33.679 --> 00:54:41.360
And then the highest level, I think the stage five of success is all about leaving a legacy.
00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:49.920
And that's the motivation for me writing this book is to leave a legacy for my daughter's ri, leave a legacy for the future generation.
00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:55.840
And so it's all so to me, those are the different levels of of uh of success.
00:54:56.559 --> 00:54:59.039
Wow, wow, the different levels of success.
00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:03.280
Well, talking about the different levels of success you just shared, uh, thank you so much.
00:55:03.360 --> 00:55:20.639
Uh, if we could look back to when you you started as a doctor, uh you started practicing, and now uh what would uh leadership look like for you, leading yourself, uh talking about uh self-awareness, emotional intelligence.
00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:27.840
How have you gotten better with self-awareness and uh emotional intelligence uh over the years?
00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:29.920
For me, I'm a lot more patient.
00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:31.840
I'm a lot more patient.
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:38.000
Um, there's definitely a little more time between stimulance and response.
00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:46.960
Before, yeah, everything that comes to my mind, I'll say it, or you know, but now I'm a little bit more measured in my response, you know.
00:55:47.039 --> 00:56:00.239
So for sure, I feel like my emotional um intelligence has improved both personally and professionally, but it's something I continue to work on every day and I work on till today.
00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:04.480
And so I think that's definitely improved as a leader.
00:56:04.559 --> 00:56:14.880
And now I'm also at that stage where I'm trying to build a legacy, build systems to help other under uh other professionals who come from underserved backgrounds.
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:31.199
My vision is to help a million people from underserved populations reach the highest level of achievement that they want, whether it's through their career or through their level of happiness or through their level of success in their life.
00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:36.960
And so that's my mission and my and my goal in life now, and hence why I wrote this book.
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:37.280
Yeah.
00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:38.960
Oh, good, good, thank you.
00:56:39.440 --> 00:56:42.079
Hopefully, we are helping you to push the vision forward.
00:56:42.320 --> 00:56:45.760
That's uh that's the goal.
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:46.960
That's that's the goal.
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:47.599
That's the goal.
00:56:47.679 --> 00:56:49.440
That's a that's a good thing to think about.
00:56:49.519 --> 00:57:01.679
So, yeah, you you said a lot about um systems, uh but in your book, you specifically mention pattern recognition and architectural thinking.
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:02.559
Yes.
00:57:03.440 --> 00:57:12.480
All right, so with somebody who is getting to that stage of creating a system, uh, how does that look like uh an healthcare system, for example?
00:57:12.800 --> 00:57:13.440
Yeah.
00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:25.280
Well, for me, in building systems, I think, or mastering systems, you want to be good at first recognizing patterns, and that's what AI is all about, simply by the way.
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:33.679
You feed it a bunch of in information, it recognizes a pattern and tries to predict uh the next thing that's gonna happen.
00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:42.800
So it's around all about pattern recognition, um, trying to anticipate patterns or predict pattern prediction.
00:57:43.039 --> 00:57:46.000
And the final piece is creating patterns.
00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:50.320
And that's where I'm trying to be in my at this stage of my career.
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:57.199
It's not just recognizing what's gonna happen or predicting what's gonna happen, but trying to create new patterns.
00:57:57.360 --> 00:58:20.400
And so the pattern I'm trying to create is uh a generation of physicians or physician exec uh uh executives who are gonna or giving back or building ladders for other physicians who come from underserved populations or who don't necessarily have the access or the resources that other people are accustomed to.
00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:25.519
So I want to build leaders who are gonna also give back and want to give back.
00:58:25.599 --> 00:58:27.280
So that's why I wrote a book.
00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:38.880
My first book is about leadership, is because I want to build more leaders who are gonna go back and help other people who are coming from underserved populations, and that's all about creating a new pattern.
00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:41.039
Yeah, right, good, good.
00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:41.840
Thank you so much.
00:58:41.920 --> 00:58:56.239
Uh, creative pattern and so in the leadership, uh, in in your book, you you said uh competence attracts people, influence moves people, leverage skills people.
00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:04.239
And this one leadership breaks, master all three leaderships, uh you become undeniable.
00:59:06.079 --> 00:59:19.840
So the thing is that if somebody was just starting now, I think I think a lot of people are starting and trying to like go to that level that you have, but then uh they're thinking about their competence, uh, which is where everything starts from.
00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:28.400
How what are the ways to develop this competence and show it uh so that the person can develop the competence to move to the next level?
00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:31.039
Yeah, I think I mentioned it earlier.
00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:55.440
For me, it's about three things first, figuring out the problem you're trying to solve or the capability that you're trying to build, educate yourself on that topic, yeah, get more exposure around that topic, whether it's through internships, going to conferences, talking to people, um, and then the final piece is gaining experience, just trying things.
00:59:55.679 --> 01:00:02.880
One secret to success is being willing to try new things, take calculated risks, don't be afraid of failure.
01:00:03.039 --> 01:00:07.519
I've never met someone who's extremely successful who's never failed.
01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:11.760
So people need to stop fearing failure because failure is part of success.
01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:14.960
You can't do something really big without failing.
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:26.800
So, to become that competent person, you have to be willing to educate yourself on the topic, expose yourself on the topic, and gain some experience in that topic.
01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:39.280
In terms of gaining visibility, you have to first identify who the decision makers are or who the key stakeholders are, and make sure whatever you're doing is relevant to them.
01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:46.320
And make sure whatever you're doing is in line with what they expect or what they want or is what society wants.
01:00:46.480 --> 01:01:01.199
And then being able to amplify your voice, being able to amplify your achievement in a simple, concise manner, um, doing things like this podcast, or you know, sharing content, sharing insights.
01:01:01.360 --> 01:01:07.679
Those are the ways to not only master a topic, but also be visible around that topic.
01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:10.000
I think that's the way to achieve it.
01:01:10.400 --> 01:01:11.199
All right, thank you.
01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:12.079
Thank you for sharing that.
01:01:12.159 --> 01:01:18.639
And that's why you said in your book, the best idea does not win, the most receivable idea I could win.
01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:19.840
All right, so good, good.
01:01:20.079 --> 01:01:22.079
Yeah, so it's a good book, right?
01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:23.679
Good book.
01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:27.679
I can tell you really, really study the book, and thank you for that.
01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:35.679
I really like you're asking really, really thought, thoughtful questions that all came from the book, and I appreciate you taking the time to read it.
01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:36.400
Yeah, good.
01:01:36.639 --> 01:01:37.199
Thank you so much.
01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:37.679
Thank you.
01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:41.119
Right, and really I appreciate the the knowledge from the book.
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:46.079
Uh so also in the book, you said at some point every day there will face a decision.
01:01:46.239 --> 01:01:52.559
Either they want to build a career or they want to build a platform, which got to be thinking.
01:01:52.639 --> 01:01:55.840
Uh, should it be either of the two?
01:01:55.920 --> 01:02:06.800
If somebody is trying to get the two from either of the end, are they wasting their time or uh what would you say to somebody who's trying to build a career and also create a platform?
01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:13.840
I would say what works for me may not necessarily work for you, or what will work for you may not work for someone else.
01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:18.000
So you have to know yourself, you have to know your capacity.
01:02:18.159 --> 01:02:28.079
Do you have the capacity to work on two things at once, or are you one of those that really need to focus on something for a while, build it up before you add something to your plate?
01:02:28.239 --> 01:02:32.960
So you really have to be introspective and know yourself and know what you can handle.
01:02:33.280 --> 01:02:39.360
For me, I knew that I'm one of those people that like to focus on things to really get good.
01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:46.960
So I spent the first half or two-thirds of my career being an expert, mastering concepts, things like that.
01:02:47.039 --> 01:02:53.760
And now I'm I'm focusing the last part of my career, building platforms, building systems.
01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:59.440
But there are young people today who are masters at multitasking, and they're doing both at the same time.
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:08.559
Like you, like you're mastering the leverage piece, the influence piece at the same time as you're you're you're mastering your your uh the competency piece.
01:03:08.719 --> 01:03:11.039
So I think it's working, so keep doing it.
01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:12.559
Like keep doing what you're doing.
01:03:12.639 --> 01:03:14.400
I think it's working for you.
01:03:14.559 --> 01:03:15.360
Yeah, yeah.
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:15.840
Good.
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:16.719
Yeah, thank you.
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:17.679
Thank you for sharing that.
01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:19.360
That's that's really powerful.
01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:41.360
Uh, so I mean, so based on your success, you've been able to achieve some success now from uh from when you started as a clinician to biofarmer, and uh also people can attest to this on the platform here, and just uh being grateful as to have you been sharing your ideas uh in person and also now your book.
01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:48.880
Uh, based on that, uh what advice would you give to a leader that is still developing?
01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:58.800
What kind of support system should a leader look out for as they embark on this uh leadership journey, uh career-wise and also business-wise?
01:03:59.039 --> 01:03:59.599
Yeah.
01:03:59.920 --> 01:04:13.519
The advice I always give people spend some time to figure out where your ultimate destination is, and be stubborn on your goals, but flexible on how you get there.
01:04:13.760 --> 01:04:20.079
Don't don't feel like there's a straight path to success, or there's a straight path to your to your destination.
01:04:20.239 --> 01:04:26.639
You're gonna have detours, you're gonna have setbacks, but if you focus on the goal, you're eventually gonna get there.
01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:28.239
So that's my first advice.
01:04:28.400 --> 01:04:31.119
Second advice, don't be afraid of failure.
01:04:31.280 --> 01:04:33.039
Use failure as fuel.
01:04:33.199 --> 01:04:39.199
Use failure as fuel to to fuel your career, to fuel um um your career path.
01:04:39.360 --> 01:04:42.400
And then the final thing is invest in relationships.
01:04:42.559 --> 01:04:48.719
I never knew this, but relationships are actually more valuable than money, the right relationships.
01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:59.519
A lot of my most recent jobs, most recent um career moves have all been from genuine, trusted relationships that I've built with people.
01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:07.920
And they see my competence, they see my credibility, and they want to bring me on to help them with whatever problem they're trying to solve.
01:05:08.079 --> 01:05:20.400
So if you take the time to increase your competency, to provide value and to be genuine and have good integrity, people are gonna want to work with you and people are gonna want to um help you.
01:05:20.480 --> 01:05:27.199
And so investing in relationships, um, good relationships will really help your career as well.
01:05:27.840 --> 01:05:28.480
Well, good.
01:05:28.559 --> 01:05:29.360
That's really powerful.
01:05:29.519 --> 01:05:30.159
Relationships.
01:05:30.239 --> 01:05:32.400
Thank you for giving us this highlight.
01:05:32.559 --> 01:05:34.559
Uh, if you're here, please let us know you're here.
01:05:34.639 --> 01:05:36.559
If you still have questions coming from Dr.
01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:47.679
Ike, uh, we can still welcome that as we'll gradually want to wrap up the session, uh, but we can still take some questions if there's anybody that has uh one or two questions or comments you want to give.
01:05:47.840 --> 01:05:48.719
Uh so Dr.
01:05:48.880 --> 01:05:52.719
Ike, uh, the triangle of leadership, right?
01:05:53.199 --> 01:05:53.519
Yes.
01:05:53.679 --> 01:05:56.559
Uh uh, what what is the last thing you want to say?
01:05:56.639 --> 01:05:57.920
Uh, what are you working on?
01:05:58.079 --> 01:05:59.920
What should we be expecting from you?
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:04.320
Is there anything that you saw in the world when you went out today that you want to share with us?
01:06:04.480 --> 01:06:07.360
Yeah, well, I wanted to let everyone know.
01:06:07.519 --> 01:06:10.880
I also have a children's book version of the book.
01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:12.480
It's called Follow Zuri.
01:06:12.960 --> 01:06:14.719
It was inspired by my daughter.
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:22.400
So it's the same concepts in the triangle of leadership, but simpler, more pictures, storytelling for kids.
01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:26.239
Uh, go pick up a copy, it's also available on Amazon.
01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:28.079
Um, um, you can look it up.
01:06:28.159 --> 01:06:32.079
It's called Follow Zuri, a children's book about leadership.
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:43.440
And then also, if you're interested in in uh you know um consulting activities or speaking, engagements, anything like that, please check out my website, www.
01:06:44.320 --> 01:06:48.320
www.dr Ikeadvisory.com.
01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:50.960
So those are two things I wanted to leave.
01:06:51.039 --> 01:06:55.119
And and just I wanted to thank you, Tobo, uh, for having me.
01:06:55.199 --> 01:06:56.480
This has been phenomenal.
01:06:56.639 --> 01:07:05.920
I think this has been the the most insightful questions I've ever received on my book, uh, and I really, really appreciate that and and respect you for that.
01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:06.639
So thank you.
01:07:06.800 --> 01:07:07.199
Thank you.
01:07:07.679 --> 01:07:09.679
Yeah, it's because the book is so good.
01:07:11.599 --> 01:07:12.639
It's not because I'm good.
01:07:12.880 --> 01:07:13.119
Thank you.
01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:14.320
I should pay you for this.
01:07:14.400 --> 01:07:16.960
Yeah, you're plugging it very well.
01:07:17.199 --> 01:07:17.760
So thank you.
01:07:17.920 --> 01:07:18.400
Thank you.
01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:20.159
Thank you so much, thank you so much.
01:07:20.719 --> 01:07:22.800
That that's the end of our conversation today.
01:07:22.880 --> 01:07:24.000
Uh, thank you so much, Dr.
01:07:24.159 --> 01:07:30.000
Ike, for creating uh some time on your busy schedule to talk about your book, The Triangle of Leadership.
01:07:30.079 --> 01:07:30.719
I recommend the book.
01:07:30.800 --> 01:07:35.599
I read it, uh, the simplicity of it and also uh the uh practicability of it.
01:07:35.760 --> 01:07:38.880
I really like it, it's very practical and very applicable.
01:07:39.039 --> 01:07:39.760
Really love it.
01:07:39.920 --> 01:07:44.639
And until next time on SIS podcast, uh, thank you so much for joining us.
01:07:44.719 --> 01:07:46.000
And thank you so much, Dr.
01:07:46.159 --> 01:07:46.400
Ike.
01:07:46.639 --> 01:07:48.239
Really appreciate your time, your effort.
01:07:48.400 --> 01:07:52.000
Uh, looking forward to having this kind of conversation with you again in the future.
01:07:52.239 --> 01:07:52.400
Thank you.
01:07:52.559 --> 01:07:52.719
Thank you.
01:07:52.880 --> 01:07:53.360
Thank you, Dr.
01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:55.039
Tolu, and have a great one.
01:07:55.679 --> 01:07:55.920
Thank you.
01:07:56.000 --> 01:07:56.239
Bye.
00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:04.559
All right.
00:00:04.959 --> 00:00:10.080
Good evening, good afternoon, good morning from wherever you're joining us from.
00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:11.439
I'm excited to be here.
00:00:11.519 --> 00:00:12.960
It's a it's a big one.
00:00:13.039 --> 00:00:14.000
I'm here with Dr.
00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:20.559
Ike, uh very uh knowledgeable biopharma professional.
00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:23.359
I'm gonna read a short bio now.
00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:24.160
Uh, Dr.
00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:38.719
Ike is an international internal medicine physician and also biopharma executive with more than 20 years of clinical practice and biopharma industry experience.
00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:39.359
Dr.
00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:50.000
Ike helps biopharma founders and life science leaders turn science into strategy and strategy into impact for patient purposes.
00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:52.159
And we're excited to be here.
00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:56.000
We're going to be talking about his book, The Triangle of Leadership.
00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:57.840
The Triangle of Leadership.
00:00:58.079 --> 00:01:00.960
And helping welcome my guest, Dr.
00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:03.679
Ike, uh, to the podcast.
00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:05.680
Thank you.
00:01:05.840 --> 00:01:06.159
Thank you.
00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:06.879
Thank you, Dr.
00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:07.359
Tolu.
00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:11.519
I really am really honored and thrilled to be on your podcast.
00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:18.159
I've been a fan, I've been following you for months now, and I'm I was excited when you reached out uh for me to come chat.
00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:19.120
So thank you.
00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:21.120
All right, thank you, thank you for being here.
00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:24.319
All right, if you're here, please let us know that you let Dr.
00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:25.760
Ike know that you're here.
00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:29.519
Uh tell us where you're joining us from, your name, where you're joining us from.
00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:31.359
If you have a question for Dr.
00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:38.560
Ike, uh, please put it in the chat so we can both learn from his book, The Triangle of Leadership.
00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:40.560
Uh very good book.
00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:51.760
Uh, one of the things that I really like about the book, uh, the simplicity of it, the simplicity of communication there, and also the action items you have uh at the end of the book.
00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:57.439
Uh, so we're gonna get into the book now, uh, so we can really understand the book very well.
00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:06.560
All right, so in the book, uh, you said leadership is what people do, it's what people do because of you, right?
00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:11.120
If people are doing nothing because of you, that means you're not leading.
00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.520
And that uh made me think about influence, right?
00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:18.319
That means that we have to have influence and things like that.
00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:28.479
So, uh, how would you define uh influence and how can we increase our influence on people?
00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:29.919
Thank you.
00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:31.599
That's a fantastic question, Dr.
00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:32.080
Tolu.
00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:40.639
Um, for me, influence is all about putting other people's needs before yours.
00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:47.039
Uh, the more you can put other people's needs before your own needs, the more you gain influence.
00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:51.439
And I have to be careful about distinguishing it from manipulation.
00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:59.599
Manipulation is when you're doing things for your own needs, uh, or you have ulterior motives uh when you're trying to do something.
00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:04.960
So influence is all about putting other people's needs before yours.
00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:12.639
And for me, the way to build influence, and I talk about this in the book, as I call it the three C's.
00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:19.840
The first one is building connection, uh building clarity, and building conviction.
00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:32.960
And how do you build connection is by having empathy, listening, and trying to understand what people's problems are or what their pain points are or their triggers, and trying to find solutions, trying to help them find solutions.
00:03:33.039 --> 00:03:37.360
And the more you do that, the more you can build connection, the more you can build trust.
00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:42.719
And then clarity is always being clear on your vision or clearing your goals.
00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:50.400
And when people are understand the goals or understand the vision, it's easier uh for them to uh to follow.
00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:56.240
And the final piece is conviction, it's just sharing with people that what you do is matters.
00:03:56.400 --> 00:04:05.520
Because if people if people don't believe in what you're doing or if what you're or the solution you're providing is not relevant to them, it's hard for them to build conviction.
00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:09.840
So once you combine those three things, you can increase your influence.
00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:11.120
Wow, thank you.
00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:12.159
Thank you for sharing that.
00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:14.400
Uh, increasing that thank you for joining, Erica.
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Erica Diaz from Houston.
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All right, thank you for joining.
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These are uh Texas people.
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Thank you for joining.
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All right, so now that will lead me to uh the definition that I found very interesting in your book.
00:04:32.399 --> 00:04:37.920
Also, uh, leadership is the ability to attract followers to you.
00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:44.720
Yes, and I I try to contrast that with the definition from one of my mentors, John C.
00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:50.560
Maxwell, yes, which says that leadership is influence, nothing more, nothing less.
00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:52.800
Yes, yeah, I love it.
00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:56.959
Which is very important because you just define influence and how to increase that influence.
00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:58.560
Thank you for sharing that with us.
00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:10.399
But then, so looking at the definition of followership, anything that you would like to say in addition to what you've already said, because you were very detailed in your answer just now, but anything additional you want to say?
00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:13.600
Yeah, I mean, by the way, I want to acknowledge John Maxwell.
00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:15.279
He's also a big mentor of mine.
00:05:15.439 --> 00:05:21.439
I read a lot of um his stuff and I reference a few of his principles in my book.
00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:33.680
So I definitely agree with his definition of influence, but I'm a first principles thinker, so I like to break things down even simpler to the simplest level.
00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:43.279
I do agree that leadership is all about influence, but on the fundamental level, if you're influencing someone, they're gonna follow you.
00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:47.439
So I wanted to take it, give an even simpler decision.
00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:50.399
If you're a leader, it means people are following you.
00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:54.079
And if people are following you, it means somehow you're influencing them.
00:05:54.240 --> 00:06:08.240
So influence is a second pillar of the three triangles, but I try to make my division definition even more simpler and even more fundamental, and that's why I define leadership as the ability to attract followers.
00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:09.279
Yes, good.
00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:09.920
Thank you.
00:06:10.079 --> 00:06:13.600
Because you start from yourself, but it doesn't end with yourself.
00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:16.160
Yeah, you're you're actually influencing followers.
00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:17.040
Thank you.
00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:19.680
That means a lot of us are in trouble.
00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:27.360
Then if this if this influence, if this influence is so important and we don't have it, then uh there's a problem here, right?
00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:35.439
So because also in your book, you said most people never develop influence, right?
00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:47.519
Maybe including myself, they resist delegation and hold on to execution, they stay in control and stay small because of that.
00:06:49.120 --> 00:07:04.879
And this seems like the path that most people will take in life until they they leave this this planet Earth because they're probably not paying attention to things that's supposed to pay attention, or just there's something that is beyond their control.
00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:27.279
Based on your experience in business and in biopharma, in life generally, uh, what would you why would you say what would you say is the reason why people just leave just make sure that uh the control is out of their hands and um things follow this path, which is not what we really want.
00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:27.920
Okay.
00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:34.720
First, before I answer the question, I like to disagree with you when you say you don't you don't feel like you're influential.
00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:49.439
By the way, just by the number of people who are dialed into the podcast right now tells you that you're attracting, you've already attracted followers, and there's something that you're doing that's influencing people to want to listen to your podcast.
00:07:49.759 --> 00:08:07.199
For me to want to be on your podcast, it means that you're influential and your podcast is also a form of leverage, which is the third pillar because you have a voice, you have a message that you're trying to share, and you're sharing it with a lot of people at the same time through your podcast.
00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:10.399
Your podcast is live on LinkedIn, it's on Facebook.
00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:11.920
That really impressed me.
00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:17.839
And so I would like to disagree that I think you already are practicing all three pillars.
00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:28.800
You're an expert in your field, you're an expert in what you're doing, you're very influential on social media, and you're leveraging media to to to um to solve problems for people.
00:08:29.199 --> 00:08:32.559
But to get to your question, there are different levels of leadership.
00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:36.159
What I'm really hearing is that you want to make your level even higher.
00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:41.360
Like for me, I wrote this book as a cheat code for success.
00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:42.320
That's what it is.
00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:44.639
It's it's really a cheat code for success.
00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:53.120
And if you notice, every really successful person that you know of is a leader in some capacity or another.
00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:55.600
That's why I titled it about leadership.
00:08:55.759 --> 00:09:02.799
But what I was really trying to share is the cheat code from my 20 years of school and almost 20 years of practice.
00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:10.159
Everything that I learned about success, I try to simplify it and put it as a cheat code in this book.
00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:19.759
And so um there are different levels of leadership, and John Maxwell even talks about it in his book, and I really love the way he talks about it.
00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:26.320
The first level um is positional leader, people are following you just because you have a title.
00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:39.679
Second one is um I I um I think is uh there's a productive leader, there's a leader, there's a level where people follow you because of your track record of results.
00:09:39.840 --> 00:09:44.320
There's a level where people follow you because of your reputation.
00:09:44.720 --> 00:09:56.320
So if you want to elevate your levels of leadership, you got to practice those two things we talk about uh in the book, which is elevating your mastery of a topic or a system.
00:09:56.480 --> 00:10:03.120
I I like to say, for instance, both of us are in the healthcare and we're we're experts in healthcare.
00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:07.360
Um, we went to school, became physicians to become an expert in healthcare.
00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:11.759
So that first foundational later layer is becoming an expert.
00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:20.320
Then the second layer is building your influence through uh connection, clarity, and conviction.
00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:32.960
And then the final piece is leverage, trying to use a leverage to either build a system or replicate a system that continues to operate without even you being there, and that's where leverage comes.
00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:36.720
And there are different forms of leverage, which we get into in the book as well.
00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:37.840
Good, good.
00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:38.320
Thank you.
00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:40.720
Yeah, we're gonna talk a lot about leveraging.
00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:42.879
Uh so thank you for sharing that.
00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:54.480
Um, so one of the things that I also want to talk about is people who have a feel that they are not a leader, or this kind of conversation does not concern them.
00:10:54.720 --> 00:11:07.679
And and you talk about value creation in the book, in which case value creation can also somewhat can make somebody become a leader, uh, because uh leadership is not really about the title.
00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:09.039
You just say that, right?
00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:13.919
So, how can people here hearing your voice or anywhere?
00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:16.720
How can they start in their leadership joining?
00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:20.960
How can they use value creation to lead at their level?
00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:27.360
Uh maybe leading themselves first, leading people and leading systems, as you said in your book.
00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:32.480
Yeah, by the way, I love how you're plugging my book every time putting it up.
00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:33.440
Fantastic.
00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:34.559
Thank you, thank you.
00:11:34.720 --> 00:11:41.679
Um, so for me, you get you have to start by figuring out what problem in society that you want to solve.
00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:43.440
I think it starts from that.
00:11:43.679 --> 00:11:57.519
And it has to be a problem uh that the that the market wants, or the or uh uh because if you want to solve a problem and no one cares about that problem, it's hard to uh build influence or uh or value.
00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:27.759
Okay, so first thing is talk to yourself, figure out which system there's an uh uh there that you want to tackle, whether it's healthcare, banking, real estate, media, you know, there's all different types of systems, and you have to pick first start with what system you want to work through, and then figure out what kind of um problem you want to solve, and then you take your time to become a master in that system, that way you can solve that problem.
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:31.759
For me, there are three different ways to develop yourself in a system.
00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:38.960
One is through education, the second is through exposure, and the third is through experience.
00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:49.759
Once you combine those three things, that's how you become a master at a system, and then you can be able to identify problems and quickly identify solutions, and that's how you become an expert.
00:12:49.840 --> 00:12:54.159
And once you become an expert, that's when you start attracting followers.
00:12:54.399 --> 00:13:04.240
Um, people I I talk about this in my book, The First Law, is that people are more attractive to utility than your vision.
00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:08.720
Everyone thinks that a leader is the one who comes up with the best vision.
00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:13.759
No, a leader is the one who solves problems, who solves people's problems.
00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:18.799
People will follow you because you can solve their problem before they even know what your vision is.
00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:21.279
So um, I hope that answers your question.
00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:22.320
All right, indeed.
00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:23.360
All right, thank you so much.
00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:24.399
Thank you for sharing that.
00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:25.440
That's really powerful.
00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:42.399
Uh, you mentioned systems, uh that's the highest level, and it's kind of like very challenging for a lot of people in terms of understanding systems, and then people who get to the other side of that now have some trust issues with systems.
00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:51.120
Uh leaders who have trust issues, they like they lack trust in in teams and systems, and that can also be a problem.
00:13:51.200 --> 00:13:54.080
Uh, and that's part of what you you mentioned in the book.
00:13:54.240 --> 00:14:11.279
So, based on your experience, what are the reasons that people have trust problems in systems and teams, and what are the ways that uh you you think uh that can be overcome along the way?
00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:22.799
Well, from my personal experience, um, first of all, every system, whether it's healthcare, banking, you know, there's always some flaws in a system.
00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:27.279
No system is perfect, and there's flaws in every system.
00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:41.440
Um, and what makes things worse is that the more powerful people become, or more financially rich people become, they're more prone to abuse that power.
00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:59.679
And so I think it's really important for you to have integrity and stay true to yourself so that when you reach that level of success, you use that power or those finances for good than for selfish needs or for greed.
00:14:59.840 --> 00:15:05.600
I think greed and power has caused more problems in society today than anything else.
00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:12.480
So I think you have to be cognizant about staying grounded, always staying grounded, even when you achieve success.
00:15:12.960 --> 00:15:21.200
A lot of money, a lot of success tends to bring out your true nature or your your your bad, your bad side.
00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:23.919
So it's always important to stay grounded.
00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:41.519
That's why I continue to like go back home, like like, you know, even though I've been in the US now for over 30 years, I still like to go back to Nigeria to see where I came from and not to take for granted all the success that I've achieved in the U.S.
00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:44.799
You know, there's still a lot of poverty where I came from.
00:15:44.960 --> 00:15:54.559
This even here in the US, I like to give back, I like to go to underserved communities, underserved places, just to stay grounded.
00:15:54.720 --> 00:16:00.960
Because I think the more empathetic you are, the easier it is to build trust.
00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:08.960
And the more people trust you, the more influential you can become, and the bigger and better a leader or more impactful leader you can become.
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:17.679
So I think uh if you want to avoid corruption, if you want to avoid abusing power, it's really important to stay grounded.
00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:18.080
Yeah.
00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:18.720
Right.
00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:19.840
Well, good, good.
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:20.799
Thank you for sharing that.
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:21.519
That's really powerful.
00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:29.360
Also, me coming from Nigeria, having a similar story as yours, uh, I can connect to what you're saying and why you're saying what you're saying.
00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:34.559
Uh, but you mentioned something now that is very interesting to me.
00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:57.919
Uh uh talking about uh giving back, talking about systems, talking about the fact that uh we have to understand uh where we're coming from, uh, but then it could be very challenging because uh systems can uh be can can be very uh varying as you move from one environment to another environment.
00:16:58.159 --> 00:17:07.839
It it means that um we also have to understand the environmental factor when it comes to leadership.
00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:20.000
So how how does the environment impact the success of a leader and how how can a leader adjust to such environment?
00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:39.359
Yeah, well, me, I think being an immigrant has given me an unfair advantage uh because being an immigrant forces you to be adaptable, forces you to be able to withstand adversity and change.
00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:46.960
And so I think one of my superpowers as a leader is being very resilient and being adaptable to change.
00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:54.000
You know, I've lived, you know, I was born in Nigeria, lived there for many years, lived in the US for many years.
00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:57.920
I'm well traveled, I've been to close to 30 countries in the world.
00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:02.480
So I've experienced different perspectives, different cultures, different countries.
00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:06.160
I've worked for more companies than most people.
00:18:07.039 --> 00:18:14.799
You know, like I've worked in some of the largest pharmaceuticals in the world, and I've also worked for many biotech startups.
00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:19.839
I've I've uh experienced the highest of highs and the lowest of lows.
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:29.519
I've been through acquisitions, I've been through restructuring, I've been to failed startups, I've been to through exits, two exits.
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:38.240
And so the more you experience highs and lows, the more adaptable you become, the more resilient you come.
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:49.119
And my secret is anytime I experience adversity, I use that as fuel uh for change or for success or to grow.
00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:55.759
You know, anytime something bad happens to me, I think to myself, what can I learn from this experience?
00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:00.079
Or what uh how can I use this experience to elevate myself?
00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:16.000
For example, writing this book, I went through a layoff, you know, and instead of sitting and wallowing in my in my misery that, oh, yet another layoff, I said, What can I do during this time uh to grow myself?
00:19:16.640 --> 00:19:35.920
And so one of the things I you know, I've been wanting to write a book for over 20 years now, and I've taken so many notes, you know, I read a lot of leadership books, including John Maxwell that you mentioned, and I took notes over the years, but I never had time to write a book or never had the motivation to write a book.
00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:45.200
And so when after my most recent layoff, I said, I'm gonna use this time to actually organize my thoughts, organize my notes, and write this book.
00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:50.160
And so secret is just um just being adaptable to change.
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:52.799
I think that really helps in your career journey.
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:53.680
All right, good.
00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:54.000
Thank you.
00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:55.039
Thank you for sharing that.
00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:55.759
Thank you for sharing that.
00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:56.640
I really appreciate that.
00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:00.559
So if you're here, uh please let us know that you're here, where you're joining us from.
00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:20.559
If you have a question, you have a comment, you agree with what you're saying, you disagree, you have something you want to share, a knowledge, a perspective, an example, illustration, whatever it is, we want to hear it uh so that we know that uh we are also uh get get getting something back from the community that we belong to.
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:21.279
Right.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:22.799
Uh thank you for sharing that.
00:20:22.960 --> 00:20:33.599
Uh that means that uh leadership is something that we all have to think about, uh, we all have to do something about and uh stay really educated about.
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:47.359
So in the book, you mentioned that uh it's very possible for people to have a competitive advantage in leadership, right?
00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:54.480
And uh and you encourage individuals to find out what that is for each individual.
00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:59.200
So uh if somebody is thinking to themselves, how can I do that?
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:03.200
How can I know my competitive advantage?
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:05.599
Uh where can they start from?
00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:11.440
Do you have any activity for them to do or uh something to think about?
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:16.079
For me, I think the biggest trick is avoiding competition.
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:18.240
I don't like to compete with people.
00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:23.200
Um rather than focusing on competition, I focus on creation.
00:21:23.599 --> 00:21:26.319
How can I create something different?
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:28.880
How can I be unique?
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:32.160
How can I be me, authentically me?
00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:36.160
No one can compete with you at being yourself.
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:39.599
Um, I'll give you a prime example of me.
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:54.240
How many physicians have you met that immigrated from Nigeria, went to Yale University, practiced medicine, now is a pharmaceutical executive, and is also an author.
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:59.839
You know, just combining your unique experiences and your unique backgrounds.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:10.880
And focusing on that, focusing on what you're good at, focus on what comes easy to you, focus on skill acquisition and value creation.
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:14.559
I'm always focusing on how can I get better, how can I learn more?
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:16.000
How can I be more?
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.359
And then I'm always focusing on how can I add more value.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:32.400
I think if you focus on skill acquisition, value creation at scale, and being authentic to yourself, you can avoid competition and you can create new ideas, new things.
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:34.000
Wow, thank you.
00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:34.960
Thank you.
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:39.759
Focusing on how unique we can be, the things that we can do differently.
00:22:39.839 --> 00:22:42.319
That means no two individuals are the same.
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:42.720
Yeah.
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:50.319
I I like to say that even though we have we try to do things very well, we don't have the same opportunities in life.
00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:53.599
Yeah, not two individuals have exactly the same opportunities.
00:22:54.160 --> 00:23:00.079
And uh uh what whatever we do with the opportunity that we have, uh that's what it's gonna be.
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:05.119
And even in the Bible, it says that whatsoever your hand find it, do it.
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:10.319
It didn't say, Well, you should practice law, it didn't say uh you should you should practice medicine.
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:12.400
People always forget that.
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:14.079
Thank you for sharing that.
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:15.519
Um Sally is here.
00:23:15.599 --> 00:23:16.799
Thank you for joining, Sally.
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:17.920
Uh saying uh Dr.
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:21.599
Ogba is a real life example of going after it all.
00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:23.200
Yeah, that's that's good.
00:23:24.079 --> 00:23:24.880
Thank you, Sally.
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:26.400
Thank you, thank you, Dr.
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:28.400
I thank you for sharing all this.
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:33.200
Oh, that there's something that you mentioned earlier on that um got my attention.
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:40.480
When you were saying that, well, it's very important for a leader to be able to empathize, empathy.
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:42.079
All right, it's very important.
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:51.440
Uh there's this feeling that's this thing thing going around that when a a leader decides to empathize with followers, they're a weak leader.
00:23:52.319 --> 00:23:54.079
Where do we get that from?
00:23:54.240 --> 00:23:58.640
And how do you how do you deal with people who have that kind of mindset?
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:01.440
I disagree with that personally.
00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:05.279
Um, being apathetic has never worked for me as a leader.
00:24:05.359 --> 00:24:09.440
Um I'd rather be called a weak leader and be empathetic, you know.
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:34.160
Um, for me, how can you build influence without genuinely caring and genuinely listening to the people who are following you or understanding their needs, understanding their own individual lived experiences, because the same thing can happen, but two or three people interpret it completely differently.
00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:46.480
So you may think you may you're adding value from your perspective, but whatever you think is value from your perspective is completely different from you know what the other person is uh is seeing.
00:24:46.799 --> 00:24:53.759
So if you really want to be influential, if you really want to be impactful, you have to have empathy.
00:24:53.920 --> 00:25:02.960
I I find it challenging to find a really successful leader or really impactful leader that lacks empathy.
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:11.119
That's very for me, those tend to be more dictators than than actual leaders or managers than true leaders, you know.
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:14.160
Right, yeah, that's a different conversation entirely.
00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:20.480
People try to understand the difference between uh management and leadership, which is not exactly the same.
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:23.920
Yeah all right, thank you, thank you for mentioning that.
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:28.000
So, also earlier on you you mentioned clarity.
00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:36.000
Uh leaders should be able to communicate clearly uh in the book, the triangle of leadership, your book.
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:42.079
All right, you write that clarity drives execution.
00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:47.680
And I I come up with these, uh I saw it rather, not didn't come up with it, I saw it somewhere.
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:52.960
Uh, the greatest illusion of communication is that it took place when it did not.
00:25:53.599 --> 00:26:00.559
That means that sometimes we feel that we're communicating with somebody, but in actual sense, we did not communicate with them.
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:03.839
So that means that's a problem of communication, right?
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:08.400
It's uh it's very difficult to talk about leadership without talking about communication.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:14.480
Uh, because that's I I have I have one of the organizations that I belong to, uh Toastmasters International, right?
00:26:16.240 --> 00:26:16.480
Yeah.
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:18.400
Yeah, I think thank you so much.
00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:25.680
So uh so that we we have leadership roles, we do things, but then it's very difficult to do that without having the communication piece of it.
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:40.480
So uh my question to you, based on your experience in business, in bipharma, career-wise, uh personal-wise, um, how do you what method do you use to confirm to people that you actually communicate with them?
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:41.519
Yeah.
00:26:42.240 --> 00:26:44.480
Well, the first thing is ask.
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:49.599
Ask or ask um if what you're doing is resonating with them.
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:51.519
That's one tactic I use.
00:26:51.839 --> 00:27:00.240
The other tactic I use is trying to rephrase or reframe what I think I heard them trying to communicate with me.
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:14.960
Uh, so it's all about giving feedback or not, and sometimes not just by asking for feedback, because sometimes people will tell you what you want to hear when you're it's paying attention to the nonverbal view.
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:18.880
I think body language tells a lot more than what people tell you.
00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:26.559
So uh the best leaders I've ever worked with, um, they're really good at reading people's body language.
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:31.920
You don't have to say something to know whether what you're telling what they're telling you is resonating.
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:41.920
And so when you notice that what you're saying is not resonating, try to ask more questions to see to make sure that what you're trying to communicate is resonating.
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:47.519
So for me, it's all about eliciting feedback either verbally or with non-verbal cues.
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:50.319
Right, good, good, thank you.
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:51.519
Thank you so much.
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:55.279
Uh, thank you for for going a little bit in depth into communication.
00:27:55.359 --> 00:28:00.160
Uh, because uh, we usually we say that communication is 50 body language.
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:03.920
And I've even seen 70, but yeah, yeah.
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:06.960
Well, yeah, at least more than more than 50, 70.
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:12.400
But then we we we forget that a lot because then we only rely on what somebody's saying.
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:16.880
So somebody can be saying A, but their body language is saying B.
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:19.359
Then the question is which one do you go with, right?
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:26.960
If what they're saying is different from the uh the what they're actually um trying to say with their body language.
00:28:27.119 --> 00:28:39.279
So so around that, what I really want to know is sometimes somebody is saying this is okay, and sometimes you eventually find out it's not okay, right?
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:42.640
Because that they didn't really mean to say it's okay.
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:57.599
And I've seen people actually get punished for this, even in the in personal life and also uh even in in their career life, because they thought somebody something was okay, and uh it was not really okay.
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:05.680
Personally, I I think we moved away from emotional intelligence quickly to artificial intelligence.
00:29:05.920 --> 00:29:06.960
Yeah, that's true.
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:11.599
Because now we're focusing a lot on artificial intelligence.
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:26.880
You go to a conference and you have like uh trendy sessions talking about artificial intelligence, but we don't talk about emotional intelligence anymore, yes, which is now becoming a problem now because we we're kind of shifting to one side of the whole story.
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:53.519
So is there any experience or any advice you want to give a institution whereby uh somebody's saying something and what they're saying is actually very different from what they're saying in uh professional life and personal life, how can one identify that quickly and adjust to the fact that what you're hearing is different from the body language that you're actually seeing?
00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:54.480
Yeah.
00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:58.480
Well, I love what you said about emotional intelligence.
00:29:58.640 --> 00:30:15.359
Um, you know, one thing that I've learned from studying and observing the greatest leaders I've worked with, and um, is that the best leaders aren't necessarily the best experts, like technical experts.
00:30:15.680 --> 00:30:20.160
The best leaders I've found in my career, and to name some of them, Dr.
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:24.319
Charlotte Jones Burton, uh, she's a great leader.
00:30:24.559 --> 00:30:46.240
Um uh like there are a lot of leaders that I've worked with, and their magic that I've seen is that they have high emotional intelligence, and I think emotional intelligence, that currency, is gonna be even more valuable now that AI has blown up so much.
00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:57.839
And so one thing I've learned, and this is why I wrote this book, I'm always trying to anticipate where things are going and get there first before everyone is there.
00:30:58.079 --> 00:31:05.680
Right now that everyone is focused on AI, first of all, I was studying AI three, four years ago before it became really popular.
00:31:05.839 --> 00:31:18.079
I I went to MIT, got a certification in AI and healthcare and pharma just to learn, took a lot of certifications, but now AI is all you hear, it's in vogue and things like that.
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:25.839
So I'm thinking of the next move, which to me is going to be all about emotional intelligence, and I think that's gonna be very valuable.
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:31.839
And just before I talk more about emotional intelligence, I like to share my definition, you know.
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:44.799
For me, is your ability to regulate your thoughts, your feelings, action, or the thoughts, feelings, and actions of others.
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:59.359
So if you can master master yourself or master being able to master how to control other people's thoughts, feelings, and actions through influence and leverage that we talked about, that's how you gain emotional.
00:32:00.319 --> 00:32:05.920
And I think we've gone through many evolutions in society.
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:09.920
First, it was all about mastering um labor.
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:13.440
That's where these manufacturing companies came.
00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:19.359
Then then it went to mastering um uh data, uh data.
00:32:20.160 --> 00:32:23.200
Uh then it went through mastering, like now.
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:30.079
I think we're going through an era of mastering attention, who can capture the most attention with social media, media, things like that.
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:32.799
Then you're going to the era of AI.
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:38.319
I think the next level will be all about the era of emotional intelligence.
00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:49.599
Because if you have robots doing everything, or robots, you're gonna look for more people who are empathetic, who have better judgment, who have better insights, who can read the room better, and things like that.
00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:58.480
So, an advice for you, and another reason to go buy the book is to continually work on your emotional intelligence.
00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:04.319
I think if you can master emotional intelligence, that's the secret recipe to master leadership.
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:10.640
And that's why influence is a critical pillar, and influence is all about emotional intelligence.
00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:27.039
Uh, and so if you can master that pillar, not just being a technical expert, but being an expert in emotion, and then being able to combine both with leverage to master or build the system, that's when you become the ultimate leader.
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:28.880
Wow, thank you.
00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:30.319
Thank you for sharing that.
00:33:30.480 --> 00:33:38.240
Uh, in your book, uh, still in line with emotional intelligence, influence, uh, you talk about the people factor, right?
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:59.279
How complex emotional is emotional experiences and people's emotion is, uh, how that can be very unpredictable, how can that can be driven by incentives that people need to receive, uh, response to fear, desire, and identifying with the particular identity, right?
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:13.920
So uh this seems that for a leader, yeah, yeah, there are some things that is beyond the control of a leader that you just you're just gonna hope that things go well along the way, and the people factor is part of it.
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:19.519
Uh, I know you said something about uh clarity, connection to enclose influence.
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:42.400
So that's that will probably take care of part of this, but what other things do you think can help to interact with people knowing fully well that uh they are they have emotion, they are they can be very uh unpredictable, uh they're driven by incentives, they can respond to fear, desire, and identity.
00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:49.280
As a leader, how have you been able to manage and walk around all that kind of emotions that uh people have?
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:56.880
Well, I I um um I I've come up with frameworks to help me stay grounded.
00:34:56.960 --> 00:34:58.800
Uh, so that's my trick.
00:34:59.039 --> 00:35:04.239
Another one of my mentors, a leader I admire, Tony Robbins, he talks about this.
00:35:04.480 --> 00:35:09.360
Um, it's all about controlling, focusing on things that you can control.
00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:20.480
Yeah, uh, you know, no matter how all the craziness that's happening around you, if you focus on things that you can control, that's how you become effective as a leader.
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:22.800
So, what are the things that you can control?
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:33.840
Um instead of focusing on what happened in the past or focusing too much on what's gonna happen in the future, focus on now, what you can do now, what you can control now.
00:35:34.000 --> 00:35:42.880
You know, instead of focusing on things that you missed out on, focusing on things that you don't have, focus on the things that you do have.
00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:53.119
For instance, during a layoff, people focus in, oh, I don't have a job, but why don't you turn that focus into I have more time now?
00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:55.119
What can I be doing with that time?
00:35:55.280 --> 00:36:07.440
You know, so changing your focus and focusing on things that you can control rather than things you can't control is what helps you weather the storm when things are happening all around you.
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:10.159
Wow, wow, thank you so much.
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:12.239
Uh, thank you for thank you for sharing that.
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:13.199
That's really powerful.
00:36:13.360 --> 00:36:15.760
So now now that we're talking about job, right?
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:18.800
Uh uh in your book, right?
00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:25.440
You also mentioned something about uh if you master a role, you become replaceable.
00:36:25.679 --> 00:36:30.079
If you master a system, you become indispensable.
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:43.840
Yes, so that means that there's uh there's a way to look at uh what you're doing in terms of a role that's very limited, and mastering systems of which is like it's just the moving part, multiple parts together.
00:36:44.079 --> 00:37:07.679
And uh if somebody is having a job now and they're thinking of how how can I do this, how what are the things to think about, what are the things to do, how can somebody see their work that can make them understand the system and not just the role that they have, so that maybe it's gonna be very difficult to say, well, now that we can do this by ourselves, I think uh we we're good.
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:14.480
Uh so so that the person can uh be indispensable, just like you said uh in your book.
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:15.360
Yeah.
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:18.800
So for I'll give you a prime example in my life.
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:24.639
So at a very young age, I would say as early as 10 years old, I knew I wanted to be in healthcare.
00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:33.679
And my reasoning, my why of wanting to be in healthcare was to help improve health, health, and relieve suffering.
00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:36.559
And so that's why I wanted to be uh in healthcare.
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:40.639
So, how do I how do I master the healthcare system?
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:57.440
First of all, I went to medical school, you know, four years med school, did my three years of residency and practiced for four years where I did nothing but see patients, you know, but I didn't stop there because I know that healthcare is just beyond taking care of patients.
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.079
There's a lot of stuff involved in healthcare.
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:08.320
There's health policy, there's a pharmaceutical part of healthcare, there's the payer side of healthcare, there's the access side of healthcare.
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:16.800
So I wanted to master all aspects of healthcare, and that's why I didn't just stop at being a traditional clinical physician.
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:24.400
So I joined the pharmaceutical industry in order to master other aspects of healthcare, and I believe I successfully did that.
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:33.199
So I started off, so I told myself I want to learn how a drug is developed from the lab all the way to commercialization.
00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:41.519
So the first part of my career I spent with a contract research organization just doing nothing but phase one clinical trials.
00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:48.960
And if you're not familiar, phase one trials is the first time individuals take a drug, healthy patients take it and things like that.
00:38:49.199 --> 00:38:52.960
And so I did over 50 phase one clinical trials.
00:38:53.199 --> 00:39:02.719
I went from there to working at a biotech, uh, it's called Lexicon Pharmaceuticals, based here in Texas, where I designed phase two and phase three trials.
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:11.039
So I worked on phase one, worked on phase two trials, worked on phase three trials, then I transitioned to medical affairs.
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:25.440
My first job was at Merck, where I was a medical science liaison, and that taught me how to talk to physicians, talk to key opinion leaders, educate people on science, so and learn how a drug gets commercialized.
00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:30.719
Then I worked my way up through all the roles in medical affairs from the field.
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:38.239
I came into in-house to a strategic role, held various strategic roles, launch various drugs.
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:45.840
Then I transitioned to build-in medical affairs organizations as a medical um leader, medical affairs leader.
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:48.159
So I built startups from scratch.
00:39:48.320 --> 00:39:51.039
I accelerated teams that are already built.
00:39:51.280 --> 00:40:03.440
You know, then my final role was as a chief medical officer where I went back beyond phase one to do preclinical studies, formulate drugs, figure out how to file an NDA.
00:40:03.599 --> 00:40:10.079
So I have literally worked from the bedside to the marketplace, commercializing drugs.
00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:21.760
So all aspects of the healthcare value chain, from developing drugs in the lab to commercializing drugs to taking care of patients who need drugs, I've done it all.
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:25.760
So I consider myself a true master of the healthcare system.
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:31.360
So let's say I get laid off, I can go back to clinical practice and take care of patients.
00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:41.199
Or if I was a patient, seeing patients, and for some reason I can't see patients anymore, can go back to the pharmaceutical industry, or I can go do clinical trials.
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:53.039
So it makes me very resistant to the changes that are happening in the society and makes me very marketable that I can do different things uh in the healthcare value chain.
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:54.719
Wow, thank you.
00:40:54.800 --> 00:40:56.559
That's a very detailed answer.
00:40:56.719 --> 00:40:57.119
Thank you.
00:40:58.559 --> 00:41:00.559
Thank you for joining Barbara Salami.
00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:01.599
Uh thank you.
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:03.519
Uh, she said great conversation.
00:41:03.679 --> 00:41:07.599
Thanks for leadership of an insight from Dr.
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:08.320
Ike.
00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:10.880
Uh, thank you so much, and thank you for creating the space.
00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:11.840
Yeah, thank you so much.
00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:13.199
Amazing, by the way.
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:17.440
I want to give her a special shout out because she's talking about AI.
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:24.960
If you're not already a part of her kindly L C K A I N D L Y, please go join.
00:41:25.039 --> 00:41:29.519
You'll learn everything you need to know about AI and the pharmaceutical value chain.
00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:31.519
So learning to acknowledge Barbara.
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:33.679
That's another role model of mine.
00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:34.400
So yeah.
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:35.360
All right, good.
00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:36.880
Thank you for joining, Barbara.
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:38.960
Yeah, we'll check you out in AI.
00:41:39.119 --> 00:41:40.079
Thank you for joining.
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:57.119
All right, so uh so you you based on this story that you gave us, you started a clinician, you started uh also uh seeing patients now, pharma uh starting uh MSL now that you talk to you you're in the leadership part of things and things like that.
00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:03.199
Uh that means that you must have learned a lot of things about execution, uh executing things like that.
00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:10.320
So in the book, uh it was a little thing about execution, uh execution is key.
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:17.199
Uh, I also read somewhere that uh innovation is rewarded, but execution is worshipped.
00:42:17.360 --> 00:42:19.599
Yes, it's it's things like that.
00:42:19.840 --> 00:42:26.800
So uh, based on all this experience that you have, what is the most valuable lesson you've learned about execution?
00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:36.800
Uh well, my number one lesson about execution is complexity is and uh is the enemy of execution.
00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:57.920
If you want to get things done, you have to learn how to make things simple, and that's why I'm a big fan of first principles in any problem that I'm trying to solve, I try to break it down to this to the to the fundamental fundamentals or the simplest pieces, and try to make it simple to execute.
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:01.280
And so I never have more than three priorities.
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:10.559
Anyone who's worked with me or worked under me knows that whenever I'm goal setting or making priorities, I always limit it to three at a time.
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:14.880
Because whenever you have more than three priorities, you have no priorities.
00:43:15.039 --> 00:43:16.960
So I always like to keep things simple.
00:43:17.119 --> 00:43:23.199
That's why, even in my book, The Triangle of Leadership, I narrow it down to three concepts and I focus it down.
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:28.880
So my greatest trick about execution is to try to make things simple.
00:43:29.039 --> 00:43:32.639
The simpler you make things, the easier it is to execute.
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:34.400
Everybody talks about strategy.
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:44.880
Strategy is like a buzzword in the corporate world, but the true remarkable leaders of those who can combine strategy with execution.
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:55.840
And that's why they always call me if you need someone to help launch a drug or build a team, I'm your guy because not only have I mastered strategy, I've mastered execution.
00:43:56.000 --> 00:44:01.119
And the trick for me for execution is born, I use the Parerdo's rule.
00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:09.039
Everything you know, everything that's out there, there's 20% of things that are responsible for 80% of results.
00:44:09.280 --> 00:44:13.280
So I always focus on that 20%, and I keep it simple.
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:29.199
Like in medical affairs, for me, the three things are stakeholder engagement, evidence generation, um uh evidence generation slash evidence dissemination, stakeholder engagement, and medical education.
00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:30.000
Those three things.
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:37.920
If you focus on those three things, that's responsible for 80% of the results that medical affairs brings to the value chain.
00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:43.360
So I master those three concepts, I make it very simple and easy to execute.
00:44:44.400 --> 00:44:45.280
Wow, thank you.
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:46.400
Thank you for sharing that.
00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:48.159
That's that's very powerful, right?
00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:55.280
Uh making things simple so that um execution can be very easy and people can understand that.
00:44:55.760 --> 00:45:02.880
All right, so uh you also said in your book about um execution, right?
00:45:03.039 --> 00:45:04.719
It's starting from decisions, right?
00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:09.760
You said decisions expose you, pressure reviews you, and results refine you.
00:45:11.039 --> 00:45:22.079
And uh you give us some examples already concerning how that can uh look like, but um are there any examples of the things that you were thinking about?
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:27.280
Uh so what are the pressures, for example, that you you experienced along the way?
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:38.800
Uh what are the uh what are you what were you exposed to that changed the way you see life, that same change the way you see humanity, that changed the way you see healthcare, yeah.
00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:48.400
That uh you know you're always gonna carry along with you, even if you're gonna start a business tomorrow, this particular lesson that you learn in healthcare is gonna go with you.
00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:49.760
Which what would that be?
00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:55.920
Well, thanks for asking that question because I'm in the middle of writing my next book on this topic.
00:45:56.079 --> 00:45:56.719
Okay, yeah.
00:45:57.039 --> 00:46:10.800
So having worked for some of the largest pharmaceutical companies in the world and also working for biotech, with the large companies, I've learned about scale and discipline.
00:46:11.440 --> 00:46:18.639
Uh, with with the smaller companies, I've learned about speed and agility.
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:19.440
Agility.
00:46:20.000 --> 00:46:26.320
And so if you can combine those four concepts, I think you can you can build the ultimate recipe.
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:30.320
And so I was fortunate.
00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:37.199
Um, in the latter part of my career, the first biotech company I worked for, it was Chinook Therapeutics.
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:39.599
We experienced a nice exit.
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:59.440
But ever since then, I've I've worked for two or three other companies that were not successful, and what I learned from those unsuccessful experiences, and I'll focus on biotechs because I think that's the market I want is that I want to teach, even though I would love to get back to the big um big companies.
00:46:59.760 --> 00:47:20.320
But I find that the secret to biotech's companies being successful, again, I break it down to the first principles, comes down to the science, it comes down to the funding of the capital, how much money they have, and how well they stretch the money.
00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:30.400
And the third piece is the head count, whether you hire too fast, hire too slow, whether you hire too many full-time versus too many consultants.
00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:34.239
So the trick is balancing those three equations.
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:38.159
And if you can get that right, you'll be a successful company.
00:47:38.320 --> 00:47:52.559
So I've worked for companies that have amazing science, amazing science, but they hired too many people too quickly and they burned through capital so fast that they went bankrupt, even though they had a great asset.
00:47:53.039 --> 00:48:05.679
Or I worked for another company that had great science but was not able to raise enough money to feed uh uh that science, and the company became devalued.
00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:07.199
So it's not enough.
00:48:07.440 --> 00:48:19.199
So when I first started looking for jobs in biotech companies, I always looked at the science and looked at people, whether they have great leaders or the track record of success and the people.
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:21.599
But I've learned that it just doesn't stop there.
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:28.800
You can have great science, you can have great people, but if you don't manage the capital right, the the company can still fail.
00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:33.360
Or if the science is not solid, the company uh can still fail.
00:48:33.519 --> 00:48:50.960
So I'm constantly looking at the balance between the science, the strength of the science, uh, how much capital and how they're managing the capital, and then hiring how well they're they're the org um the org chart, whether they're hiring too fast, hiring too slow, things like that.
00:48:51.119 --> 00:48:57.039
So keep that in mind as you're evaluating biotech or if you want to start your own biotech and things like that.
00:48:57.199 --> 00:49:00.320
So just want to acknowledge that I also have a consulting firm.
00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:09.280
It's called Eroco Life Sciences Consult uh Advisory, where advise CEOs and startup leaders on on these topics.
00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:11.199
So yeah, yeah, good.
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:12.719
Well, thank you for sharing.
00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:13.679
That's very powerful.
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:16.960
That that might be one of the reasons why roles are cancelled, right?
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:22.000
Because you see a role that is how there, somebody apply for the roles, they say, Well, we actually cancel this role.
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:22.800
Like, yeah, what's good?
00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:23.280
What's going on?
00:49:23.360 --> 00:49:24.719
Are you guys still like me or what?
00:49:27.840 --> 00:49:31.920
So that that might actually uh explain the reason why they actually do that.
00:49:32.079 --> 00:49:33.360
Uh thank you for sharing that.
00:49:33.519 --> 00:49:40.719
Um, Barbara also said uh making the complex simple and having dynamic range is really key.
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:42.000
Uh, thank you for sharing that.
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:46.079
Again, if you're here, you're part of the podcast, let us know that you're here.
00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:49.119
Uh, please put your name, where you're joining us from, in the chat.
00:49:49.199 --> 00:49:54.559
And also if you have questions, if you have comments, if you have encouragement or discouragement.
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:56.639
We also take discouragement.
00:49:58.000 --> 00:49:58.559
Thank you.
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:01.599
If you have anything to say, uh, we want to hear from you.
00:50:01.760 --> 00:50:02.480
Thank you so much.
00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:08.559
Uh, so you you just talk about scale, and that's part of what you talked about in your book.
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:09.679
Uh, very important.
00:50:09.760 --> 00:50:11.760
Uh, you said something in the book.
00:50:12.000 --> 00:50:16.239
If it stops when you stop, you do not have a leverage.
00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:20.880
My question is, when should a leader start thinking about leverage?
00:50:21.199 --> 00:50:23.840
Hmm, right away.
00:50:24.079 --> 00:50:28.800
And and this is something that's why I'm putting this in the book, and it's a cheat code.
00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:36.719
Everyone thinks to thinking about leverage at the end of their career or when they have 10, 15, 20 years of experience.
00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:43.519
But if you start thinking about leverage at the beginning of your career journey, you can be a lot more successful.
00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:45.920
And how do I define leverage?
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:56.559
Being able to do more with less, being able to do more with less, or essentially your output divided by your input.
00:50:56.800 --> 00:51:05.199
And that's part of the reason why I left traditional practice taking care of patients to work in the pharmaceutical company.
00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:18.480
Because I realized I was seeing about 15 to 20 patients every day when I was in practice for hypothetical reasons, even though no, even though I know it's not true, but let's say it takes me an hour to see a patient.
00:51:18.800 --> 00:51:26.320
If I wanted to impact a million patient lives, it would take me a million hours to impact those patients.
00:51:26.559 --> 00:51:33.119
But the curve, so when I'm in traditional practice, my time is very linear.
00:51:33.280 --> 00:51:36.400
The the time versus value is very lyric, linear.
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:38.159
There's not a lot of leverage there.
00:51:38.320 --> 00:51:46.000
As opposed to now that I'm in the pharmaceutical industry, some of the drugs I've worked on have impacted millions of lives.
00:51:46.079 --> 00:51:48.880
And it doesn't require that one-to-one time.
00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:53.760
There's asymmetrical returns in the value that you're producing.
00:51:54.000 --> 00:52:05.599
So a trick to success as a leaser, as a leader, or maximizing your impact is trying to use leverage to amplify whatever value you're trying to provide to society.
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:19.679
And that leverage can be through labor, which is other people's time, or capital, which is other people's money or other people's resources, or media like this, this platform, other people's uh attention, or tech.
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:26.000
I call it OPT, other uh technology, whether it's AI or software, apps, things like that.
00:52:26.320 --> 00:52:33.920
So marrying um leverage with the problem you're trying to solve maximizes your impact.
00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:35.440
Wow, thank you.
00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:41.760
Marrying the leverage with a problem, first know the problem, then marry the leverage with a problem that you're trying to solve.
00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:42.719
That's very good.
00:52:42.960 --> 00:52:50.960
Well, you just say something about success, and the thing about success is that uh success is the way you you can measure it different ways.
00:52:51.039 --> 00:52:54.400
One of the ways to to measure success is money, right?
00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:57.280
Cash because uh bills get paid, right?
00:52:57.440 --> 00:52:58.400
Bills have to be paid.
00:52:58.480 --> 00:52:59.920
So we have to think about all that.
00:53:00.079 --> 00:53:06.079
Also, and also in your book, you mentioned that how people can move from different levels of income.
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:18.559
Uh so I just wanted to also say it here what are the different levels of income and how can a leader effectively move from the lowest level of income to a higher level of income?
00:53:18.800 --> 00:53:19.199
Yeah.
00:53:19.440 --> 00:53:25.599
Well, I don't want to make it about income, I'll just keep it general to say different levels of success.
00:53:25.760 --> 00:53:26.559
Okay, yeah.
00:53:26.800 --> 00:53:38.159
Um, for me, I think the lowest level is when you're in survival mode, when you're trying to earn enough to pay your bills, keep a roof over your shoulder, make sure you're safe.
00:53:38.320 --> 00:53:38.559
Okay.
00:53:39.119 --> 00:53:48.079
And I think the next stage is the achievement stage when you're trying to collect accolades, whether it's degrees, certifications, you know.
00:53:48.159 --> 00:53:54.159
I went through that phase where I you know went to Yale, got my bachelor's, went to Rutgers Medical School.
00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:55.920
That's the achievement stage.
00:53:56.079 --> 00:54:09.440
Then when I transition from traditional practice to pharmaceutical, that's the third stage, which was impact, when I'm trying to maximize impact, trying to provide more value at scale.
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:11.280
That's the third phase, I call it.
00:54:11.360 --> 00:54:16.639
And this is another book that I'm working on until I have two books going on at the same time.
00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:33.360
And then the fourth stage to me is ownership level, where you own your time, uh, where you own what problems you want to solve, uh, what who you want to work with when you have ownership.
00:54:33.679 --> 00:54:41.360
And then the highest level, I think the stage five of success is all about leaving a legacy.
00:54:41.440 --> 00:54:49.920
And that's the motivation for me writing this book is to leave a legacy for my daughter's ri, leave a legacy for the future generation.
00:54:50.159 --> 00:54:55.840
And so it's all so to me, those are the different levels of of uh of success.
00:54:56.559 --> 00:54:59.039
Wow, wow, the different levels of success.
00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:03.280
Well, talking about the different levels of success you just shared, uh, thank you so much.
00:55:03.360 --> 00:55:20.639
Uh, if we could look back to when you you started as a doctor, uh you started practicing, and now uh what would uh leadership look like for you, leading yourself, uh talking about uh self-awareness, emotional intelligence.
00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:27.840
How have you gotten better with self-awareness and uh emotional intelligence uh over the years?
00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:29.920
For me, I'm a lot more patient.
00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:31.840
I'm a lot more patient.
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:38.000
Um, there's definitely a little more time between stimulance and response.
00:55:38.239 --> 00:55:46.960
Before, yeah, everything that comes to my mind, I'll say it, or you know, but now I'm a little bit more measured in my response, you know.
00:55:47.039 --> 00:56:00.239
So for sure, I feel like my emotional um intelligence has improved both personally and professionally, but it's something I continue to work on every day and I work on till today.
00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:04.480
And so I think that's definitely improved as a leader.
00:56:04.559 --> 00:56:14.880
And now I'm also at that stage where I'm trying to build a legacy, build systems to help other under uh other professionals who come from underserved backgrounds.
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:31.199
My vision is to help a million people from underserved populations reach the highest level of achievement that they want, whether it's through their career or through their level of happiness or through their level of success in their life.
00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:36.960
And so that's my mission and my and my goal in life now, and hence why I wrote this book.
00:56:37.039 --> 00:56:37.280
Yeah.
00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:38.960
Oh, good, good, thank you.
00:56:39.440 --> 00:56:42.079
Hopefully, we are helping you to push the vision forward.
00:56:42.320 --> 00:56:45.760
That's uh that's the goal.
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:46.960
That's that's the goal.
00:56:47.039 --> 00:56:47.599
That's the goal.
00:56:47.679 --> 00:56:49.440
That's a that's a good thing to think about.
00:56:49.519 --> 00:57:01.679
So, yeah, you you said a lot about um systems, uh but in your book, you specifically mention pattern recognition and architectural thinking.
00:57:01.920 --> 00:57:02.559
Yes.
00:57:03.440 --> 00:57:12.480
All right, so with somebody who is getting to that stage of creating a system, uh, how does that look like uh an healthcare system, for example?
00:57:12.800 --> 00:57:13.440
Yeah.
00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:25.280
Well, for me, in building systems, I think, or mastering systems, you want to be good at first recognizing patterns, and that's what AI is all about, simply by the way.
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:33.679
You feed it a bunch of in information, it recognizes a pattern and tries to predict uh the next thing that's gonna happen.
00:57:33.840 --> 00:57:42.800
So it's around all about pattern recognition, um, trying to anticipate patterns or predict pattern prediction.
00:57:43.039 --> 00:57:46.000
And the final piece is creating patterns.
00:57:46.079 --> 00:57:50.320
And that's where I'm trying to be in my at this stage of my career.
00:57:50.400 --> 00:57:57.199
It's not just recognizing what's gonna happen or predicting what's gonna happen, but trying to create new patterns.
00:57:57.360 --> 00:58:20.400
And so the pattern I'm trying to create is uh a generation of physicians or physician exec uh uh executives who are gonna or giving back or building ladders for other physicians who come from underserved populations or who don't necessarily have the access or the resources that other people are accustomed to.
00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:25.519
So I want to build leaders who are gonna also give back and want to give back.
00:58:25.599 --> 00:58:27.280
So that's why I wrote a book.
00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:38.880
My first book is about leadership, is because I want to build more leaders who are gonna go back and help other people who are coming from underserved populations, and that's all about creating a new pattern.
00:58:39.519 --> 00:58:41.039
Yeah, right, good, good.
00:58:41.280 --> 00:58:41.840
Thank you so much.
00:58:41.920 --> 00:58:56.239
Uh, creative pattern and so in the leadership, uh, in in your book, you you said uh competence attracts people, influence moves people, leverage skills people.
00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:04.239
And this one leadership breaks, master all three leaderships, uh you become undeniable.
00:59:06.079 --> 00:59:19.840
So the thing is that if somebody was just starting now, I think I think a lot of people are starting and trying to like go to that level that you have, but then uh they're thinking about their competence, uh, which is where everything starts from.
00:59:20.000 --> 00:59:28.400
How what are the ways to develop this competence and show it uh so that the person can develop the competence to move to the next level?
00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:31.039
Yeah, I think I mentioned it earlier.
00:59:31.199 --> 00:59:55.440
For me, it's about three things first, figuring out the problem you're trying to solve or the capability that you're trying to build, educate yourself on that topic, yeah, get more exposure around that topic, whether it's through internships, going to conferences, talking to people, um, and then the final piece is gaining experience, just trying things.
00:59:55.679 --> 01:00:02.880
One secret to success is being willing to try new things, take calculated risks, don't be afraid of failure.
01:00:03.039 --> 01:00:07.519
I've never met someone who's extremely successful who's never failed.
01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:11.760
So people need to stop fearing failure because failure is part of success.
01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:14.960
You can't do something really big without failing.
01:00:15.119 --> 01:00:26.800
So, to become that competent person, you have to be willing to educate yourself on the topic, expose yourself on the topic, and gain some experience in that topic.
01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:39.280
In terms of gaining visibility, you have to first identify who the decision makers are or who the key stakeholders are, and make sure whatever you're doing is relevant to them.
01:00:39.519 --> 01:00:46.320
And make sure whatever you're doing is in line with what they expect or what they want or is what society wants.
01:00:46.480 --> 01:01:01.199
And then being able to amplify your voice, being able to amplify your achievement in a simple, concise manner, um, doing things like this podcast, or you know, sharing content, sharing insights.
01:01:01.360 --> 01:01:07.679
Those are the ways to not only master a topic, but also be visible around that topic.
01:01:07.840 --> 01:01:10.000
I think that's the way to achieve it.
01:01:10.400 --> 01:01:11.199
All right, thank you.
01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:12.079
Thank you for sharing that.
01:01:12.159 --> 01:01:18.639
And that's why you said in your book, the best idea does not win, the most receivable idea I could win.
01:01:18.719 --> 01:01:19.840
All right, so good, good.
01:01:20.079 --> 01:01:22.079
Yeah, so it's a good book, right?
01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:23.679
Good book.
01:01:24.400 --> 01:01:27.679
I can tell you really, really study the book, and thank you for that.
01:01:27.760 --> 01:01:35.679
I really like you're asking really, really thought, thoughtful questions that all came from the book, and I appreciate you taking the time to read it.
01:01:35.760 --> 01:01:36.400
Yeah, good.
01:01:36.639 --> 01:01:37.199
Thank you so much.
01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:37.679
Thank you.
01:01:37.840 --> 01:01:41.119
Right, and really I appreciate the the knowledge from the book.
01:01:41.280 --> 01:01:46.079
Uh so also in the book, you said at some point every day there will face a decision.
01:01:46.239 --> 01:01:52.559
Either they want to build a career or they want to build a platform, which got to be thinking.
01:01:52.639 --> 01:01:55.840
Uh, should it be either of the two?
01:01:55.920 --> 01:02:06.800
If somebody is trying to get the two from either of the end, are they wasting their time or uh what would you say to somebody who's trying to build a career and also create a platform?
01:02:07.039 --> 01:02:13.840
I would say what works for me may not necessarily work for you, or what will work for you may not work for someone else.
01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:18.000
So you have to know yourself, you have to know your capacity.
01:02:18.159 --> 01:02:28.079
Do you have the capacity to work on two things at once, or are you one of those that really need to focus on something for a while, build it up before you add something to your plate?
01:02:28.239 --> 01:02:32.960
So you really have to be introspective and know yourself and know what you can handle.
01:02:33.280 --> 01:02:39.360
For me, I knew that I'm one of those people that like to focus on things to really get good.
01:02:39.440 --> 01:02:46.960
So I spent the first half or two-thirds of my career being an expert, mastering concepts, things like that.
01:02:47.039 --> 01:02:53.760
And now I'm I'm focusing the last part of my career, building platforms, building systems.
01:02:54.000 --> 01:02:59.440
But there are young people today who are masters at multitasking, and they're doing both at the same time.
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:08.559
Like you, like you're mastering the leverage piece, the influence piece at the same time as you're you're you're mastering your your uh the competency piece.
01:03:08.719 --> 01:03:11.039
So I think it's working, so keep doing it.
01:03:11.280 --> 01:03:12.559
Like keep doing what you're doing.
01:03:12.639 --> 01:03:14.400
I think it's working for you.
01:03:14.559 --> 01:03:15.360
Yeah, yeah.
01:03:15.599 --> 01:03:15.840
Good.
01:03:16.000 --> 01:03:16.719
Yeah, thank you.
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:17.679
Thank you for sharing that.
01:03:17.760 --> 01:03:19.360
That's that's really powerful.
01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:41.360
Uh, so I mean, so based on your success, you've been able to achieve some success now from uh from when you started as a clinician to biofarmer, and uh also people can attest to this on the platform here, and just uh being grateful as to have you been sharing your ideas uh in person and also now your book.
01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:48.880
Uh, based on that, uh what advice would you give to a leader that is still developing?
01:03:48.960 --> 01:03:58.800
What kind of support system should a leader look out for as they embark on this uh leadership journey, uh career-wise and also business-wise?
01:03:59.039 --> 01:03:59.599
Yeah.
01:03:59.920 --> 01:04:13.519
The advice I always give people spend some time to figure out where your ultimate destination is, and be stubborn on your goals, but flexible on how you get there.
01:04:13.760 --> 01:04:20.079
Don't don't feel like there's a straight path to success, or there's a straight path to your to your destination.
01:04:20.239 --> 01:04:26.639
You're gonna have detours, you're gonna have setbacks, but if you focus on the goal, you're eventually gonna get there.
01:04:26.800 --> 01:04:28.239
So that's my first advice.
01:04:28.400 --> 01:04:31.119
Second advice, don't be afraid of failure.
01:04:31.280 --> 01:04:33.039
Use failure as fuel.
01:04:33.199 --> 01:04:39.199
Use failure as fuel to to fuel your career, to fuel um um your career path.
01:04:39.360 --> 01:04:42.400
And then the final thing is invest in relationships.
01:04:42.559 --> 01:04:48.719
I never knew this, but relationships are actually more valuable than money, the right relationships.
01:04:49.039 --> 01:04:59.519
A lot of my most recent jobs, most recent um career moves have all been from genuine, trusted relationships that I've built with people.
01:04:59.760 --> 01:05:07.920
And they see my competence, they see my credibility, and they want to bring me on to help them with whatever problem they're trying to solve.
01:05:08.079 --> 01:05:20.400
So if you take the time to increase your competency, to provide value and to be genuine and have good integrity, people are gonna want to work with you and people are gonna want to um help you.
01:05:20.480 --> 01:05:27.199
And so investing in relationships, um, good relationships will really help your career as well.
01:05:27.840 --> 01:05:28.480
Well, good.
01:05:28.559 --> 01:05:29.360
That's really powerful.
01:05:29.519 --> 01:05:30.159
Relationships.
01:05:30.239 --> 01:05:32.400
Thank you for giving us this highlight.
01:05:32.559 --> 01:05:34.559
Uh, if you're here, please let us know you're here.
01:05:34.639 --> 01:05:36.559
If you still have questions coming from Dr.
01:05:36.719 --> 01:05:47.679
Ike, uh, we can still welcome that as we'll gradually want to wrap up the session, uh, but we can still take some questions if there's anybody that has uh one or two questions or comments you want to give.
01:05:47.840 --> 01:05:48.719
Uh so Dr.
01:05:48.880 --> 01:05:52.719
Ike, uh, the triangle of leadership, right?
01:05:53.199 --> 01:05:53.519
Yes.
01:05:53.679 --> 01:05:56.559
Uh uh, what what is the last thing you want to say?
01:05:56.639 --> 01:05:57.920
Uh, what are you working on?
01:05:58.079 --> 01:05:59.920
What should we be expecting from you?
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:04.320
Is there anything that you saw in the world when you went out today that you want to share with us?
01:06:04.480 --> 01:06:07.360
Yeah, well, I wanted to let everyone know.
01:06:07.519 --> 01:06:10.880
I also have a children's book version of the book.
01:06:10.960 --> 01:06:12.480
It's called Follow Zuri.
01:06:12.960 --> 01:06:14.719
It was inspired by my daughter.
01:06:14.880 --> 01:06:22.400
So it's the same concepts in the triangle of leadership, but simpler, more pictures, storytelling for kids.
01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:26.239
Uh, go pick up a copy, it's also available on Amazon.
01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:28.079
Um, um, you can look it up.
01:06:28.159 --> 01:06:32.079
It's called Follow Zuri, a children's book about leadership.
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:43.440
And then also, if you're interested in in uh you know um consulting activities or speaking, engagements, anything like that, please check out my website, www.
01:06:44.320 --> 01:06:48.320
www.dr Ikeadvisory.com.
01:06:48.480 --> 01:06:50.960
So those are two things I wanted to leave.
01:06:51.039 --> 01:06:55.119
And and just I wanted to thank you, Tobo, uh, for having me.
01:06:55.199 --> 01:06:56.480
This has been phenomenal.
01:06:56.639 --> 01:07:05.920
I think this has been the the most insightful questions I've ever received on my book, uh, and I really, really appreciate that and and respect you for that.
01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:06.639
So thank you.
01:07:06.800 --> 01:07:07.199
Thank you.
01:07:07.679 --> 01:07:09.679
Yeah, it's because the book is so good.
01:07:11.599 --> 01:07:12.639
It's not because I'm good.
01:07:12.880 --> 01:07:13.119
Thank you.
01:07:13.199 --> 01:07:14.320
I should pay you for this.
01:07:14.400 --> 01:07:16.960
Yeah, you're plugging it very well.
01:07:17.199 --> 01:07:17.760
So thank you.
01:07:17.920 --> 01:07:18.400
Thank you.
01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:20.159
Thank you so much, thank you so much.
01:07:20.719 --> 01:07:22.800
That that's the end of our conversation today.
01:07:22.880 --> 01:07:24.000
Uh, thank you so much, Dr.
01:07:24.159 --> 01:07:30.000
Ike, for creating uh some time on your busy schedule to talk about your book, The Triangle of Leadership.
01:07:30.079 --> 01:07:30.719
I recommend the book.
01:07:30.800 --> 01:07:35.599
I read it, uh, the simplicity of it and also uh the uh practicability of it.
01:07:35.760 --> 01:07:38.880
I really like it, it's very practical and very applicable.
01:07:39.039 --> 01:07:39.760
Really love it.
01:07:39.920 --> 01:07:44.639
And until next time on SIS podcast, uh, thank you so much for joining us.
01:07:44.719 --> 01:07:46.000
And thank you so much, Dr.
01:07:46.159 --> 01:07:46.400
Ike.
01:07:46.639 --> 01:07:48.239
Really appreciate your time, your effort.
01:07:48.400 --> 01:07:52.000
Uh, looking forward to having this kind of conversation with you again in the future.
01:07:52.239 --> 01:07:52.400
Thank you.
01:07:52.559 --> 01:07:52.719
Thank you.
01:07:52.880 --> 01:07:53.360
Thank you, Dr.
01:07:53.519 --> 01:07:55.039
Tolu, and have a great one.
01:07:55.679 --> 01:07:55.920
Thank you.
01:07:56.000 --> 01:07:56.239
Bye.
