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Most organizations treat crisis as a failure state. Marina Nitze sees it as a window.
Nitze served as Chief Technology Officer of the Department of Veterans Affairs (the largest civilian agency in the country) during the healthcare.gov collapse. She helped rescue it, helped stand up the US Digital Service, and came out the other side with a question she and her colleagues have been pursuing ever since: why is it that crisis makes otherwise impossible transformational change possible?
That question became a firm, Layer Aleph, and now a book, Crisis Engineering, co-authored with her colleagues. In this conversation, she walks through what a "useful crisis" actually looks like, the five indicators that distinguish it from chronic problems masquerading as crises, and the practitioner toolkit for standing up a crisis engineering center when the window opens, because the window is usually hours, not days.
We also get into two stories that hit harder than any framework: the California unemployment system's call center that, when Nitze's team actually visited it, turned out to be a large room of empty cubicles — and a carbon copy form that two dedicated public servants were dutifully exchanging because each believed it was the other's requirement. Nobody had ever looked at the full process end to end.
And we get into what AI changes about all of this. Josh Tyson and Robb Wilson have been warning for a while about outbound AI in the hands of consumers — the agentic attack that floods a call center, the Reddit thread that reroutes a TTY line and takes it down under volume. That pressure is about to turn a chronic crisis into an acute crisis for a lot of organizations that have been sipping coffee while the problem grew.
We cover: why the stories organizations tell themselves are the real obstacle to change, the difference between a crisis and a chronic problem, how circumventing rules once changes what's possible forever, why crisis engineering might be the most important new role that AI creates rather than eliminates, and what happens when you flip over your system map and walk through it with your feet instead.
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