Three Cheers for Sweet Revenge: Part 3

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Hey listeners, welcome to Idiotalk, My Chemical Bromance.
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I am Walker Glenn.
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And I'm Zach Glenn.
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And we are doing a rare night record, our first night record of the the season.
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Yeah, I think so.
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Yeah, definitely.
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And and that's that's kind of exciting.
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It's a different energy.
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We'll see.
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You know, I I think it's good to record an episode when, you know, we've both worked a full shift.
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Yes.
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My ADHD medication is wearing off.
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My caffeine is wearing off.
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I'm confused.
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I'm scared.
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That's gonna that's gonna get it's gonna bring some some much needed stakes to Idiot Talk.
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The creative philosophical energy is flowing.
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They say that you do your best work at the end of the day.
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Isn't that what they always say?
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Who says that?
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Oprah.
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Okay.
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Well, that's why they say, you know, wake up every mor well, go to bed every evening, write your night pages.
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You know how people talk about their morning pages.
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No.
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Oh, it's I think it's like it might be from the artist's way or something like that.
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Oh, okay.
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You know, it's like a habit.
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You wake up and you you uh you write some stuff.
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Um look look, listeners, if this is a bad start to the show, I already told you it's uh seven o'clock at night.
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We're tired.
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I'm not tired, Zach.
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I'm very excited to do this.
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Listeners, you may have seen already looking at the title of this episode.
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We're spending another episode in the three chairs for sweet revenge, and I said that like chairs for some reason.
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We are spending another episode in the three cheers for sweet revenge era.
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Yes.
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Um rich, rich era in the band's history.
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This is a band that does not have a particularly extensive discography.
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So, you know, we're having so much fun talking about my chemical romance.
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We thought we'd slow it down a little bit, spend a little more time, but it might be it might be a little loosey-goosey tonight.
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We've talked a lot about in our first season and in this season a lot, that we attempt to mirror the arc of the band or musical artist that we are covering.
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And I think that this period of the band um definitely warrants extended coverage and just examination, however many episodes we want to do.
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But I think that not necessarily the band themselves, but certainly the um the studio, the people that were reaping a lot of the benefits of this smash success of an album wanted to really extend out the coverage of it.
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And what I mean by that, listeners, if you've gotten, if you're here, hopefully you've gotten all the way through our first two parts on Three Cheers for Sweet Revenge, but I talked about that, or we talked about that the Ghost of You came out, I think it was uh this time, uh uh it was in August of 2005, so a full 14 months after the release of the album.
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And then there were other supplemental material that continued to come out into the year 2006.
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So uh yeah, I'm not sagging anyone off for, you know, um, I don't want to say milking it.
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Maybe you can help me out with my terminology, but you you get what I'm trying to say, right, Walker?
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Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, album cycles were well, actually, I was gonna say they were really long, but I think they're actually even longer now because now uh bands make most of their money from merch and touring, and most of that is from merch.
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Uh so album cycles get milked for as long as possible now, um, because there's not like the traditional, you know, releasing of singles over the course of like, you know, sometimes over like a whole year after an album's release, they'll still be putting singles out into the world and stuff.
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But I mean, they were they they were very much still a scrappy working outfit, you know?
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And so they they really they really they really put the work in at this time.
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And I will say mirroring the arc of the band, there was we we're discussing, like I said, loosely.
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We're we're kind of just like I I would say overall the purpose of this episode is any kind of remaining three cheers tidbits that we want to talk about, but the source for that is gonna come from this tour documentary called Life on the Murder Scene.
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Um, I believe Zach's referenced it in previous episodes because it was part of his Fuse TV era.
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Yes, absolutely.
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And um, but yeah, I will say, Zach, watching that, I had never seen that uh documentary or rockumentary, if you will.
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Sure.
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And I found a couple ways that I am mirroring the arc of the band in that.
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I can save them for when they come up.
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Well, I can tell you one right now because it's from the very beginning.
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But um Gerard Way at one point in the documentary, so I should probably say this this thing is basically it served as like a primer for my chemical romance, right?
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And I was thinking about these type of because I'm calling it a documentary, but it's not it, it isn't directed by any person, it's assembled footage, and it's basically like in a pre-Wikipedia world, it's all the stuff that you would find on a Wikipedia article.
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How'd they get their name?
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How did they meet?
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What town did they live in, etc.
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etc.
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Right.
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And then it's also a lot of footage of them touring uh Three Cheers for Sweet Revenge.
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But I was thinking about Zach.
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I I had one of these for a band that I was obsessed with as a lad.
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Um, do you remember the Blink 182 VHS tape I had called the Erethra Chronicles?
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Yes, there's some funny footage on that actually.
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There really were I remember it as being funny.
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I don't, yeah.
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Yeah, I mean, I think there was definitely some very immature and like, you know, some some definite like style of jokes that have fallen out of fashion, like, you know, showing showing people your penis without them knowing that that's gonna happen and uh implying that your friend is gay a lot.
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But it basically was like, okay, Blink 182 are are bigger than Jesus now, and they've been in this, these guys have all been hanging out, not Travis, but you know, Mark and Tom have been hanging out since they were kids.
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There's all these like sketches and accumulated material of them being like goofballs, which is what their fan base like loves.
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And so it's a bunch of that stuff, and it's them playing live, and it's also just interviews with them going like just giving all their like stats basically of like how they met, what they did, and so it's not like a documentary that unfolds in a in a traditional documentary fashion, where they like start in one place and end up in like kind of present day or whatever, or reach some sort of conclusion.
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It's just kind of like here's all the accumulated information about my chemical romance so far.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And similarly to um to the Blink 182 mini doc that you're talking about, I think that I think this serves a lot of functions, and as we kind of you know go through it however in depth we want to, we can talk about those.
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But I think one of the big functions that this serves is to keep audiences engaged while they wrote and eventually were recording their new album.
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Sure.
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I think this the footage was assembled from the back end of 2005, and you can really tell.
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And I think this was no, I know this was released in March of 2006.
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They so they were most assuredly getting ready to record.
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Um, the the documentary, I'm just gonna refer to it as a doc going forward.
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Sure.
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Uh, ends with um a early kind of draft of them singing the song I Don't Love You.
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Yeah.
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Uh, which I thought was really, really neat.
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Um, but I also Yeah, I got kind of pumped watching them work on that one.
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Oh, it's just Ray and uh Gerard.
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Yeah, I'm gonna just say right now, too, that I think that while this is haphazardly produced and does it's not it's not even like a cash grab, but just something to keep audiences engaged.
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I think there's actually a lot to do on here.
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So I'm really excited to go through it with you.
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We might not get to like every little thing because most of the like actual information of who they are, where they're from, this or that, we've covered, and people should know that if they're coming to this podcast.
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But I do think that one of the the goals of this piece of media is to introduce audiences to Bob Breyer and as the drummer.
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Yeah, similarly to the the way the Uretha Chronicles is like here's Travis Barker.
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Right.
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Um, Travis Barker, yeah.
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So, anyways, but um I have a lot more other little like songwriting little things, but I know you had other stuff maybe you want to talk about.
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No, no, we'll go through it.
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I will say one of uh I I I will give the two things where uh I am mirroring the arc of the band, and they are both Gerard.
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Uh so you know, I'm maybe flattering myself by comparing myself to the most charismatic and standout member of my chemical romance, but um they we've talked a lot about their band name and where it came from, but Gerard in this documentary says he uh related to it because he was taking Well Butrin at the time.
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And Zach, do you know who else takes Well Butrin?
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No, why your co-host on Idiotalk.
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That's right, listeners.
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I have depression like Gerard Way.
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I am mirroring the arc of the band.
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And I didn't take that antidepressant until we until we started this season.
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That's not true.
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But wouldn't that be funny if I was like, oh, we're doing idiot, we're doing my chemical romance.
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Time to start taking Will Butrin.
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Yes, absolutely.
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I mean, I can think of a whole lot of worse choices that we could start ingesting into our bodies.
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Yeah, that's right.
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I'm gonna put in the stock.
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It's uh uh we're doing we're doing a new season of video talk.
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Time to mirror the arc of my chemical romance by developing anxiety my entire life and and taking a mild antidepressant for it.
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Oh, I just remembered one other heads up I would like to tell listeners um what this episode will not be.
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So we've covered what this episode might be in excruciating detail.
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I know it's very and what if it's none of these things?
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Like they kept saying it might be this, and then it wasn't.
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But I know listeners also come to a podcast to hear what it's not gonna be.
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So I would just say, too, um, I know that uh there are several B sides associated with the uh this period of the band.
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Um the most uh prominent, I don't know, whatever, um, that listeners I know for me is the Under Pressure cover.
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Yeah, the further collaboration with uh singer The Use Bert McCracken.
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Really, really cool cover.
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Uh Walker and I have talked about what we're gonna do talking about the B sides, but we this is gonna be a music-free episode, am I right, Walker?
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So we'll save that for another time.
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Well, except for the I just sung the opening bars of Under Pressure.
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Yeah.
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But listeners, if you're tapping your foot in panicked fury that we have missed or forgotten about the additional songs from this period in this era, wait a little while.
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Fuck you.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Uh yeah, no, we're gonna do a B-sides episode.
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Exactly.
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And the B-sides only just continue to grow in magnitude and awesomeness.
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Uh just like the strength of this band.
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A little too.
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I'm excited to feel and so we're not only previewing what the episode might be, we might all we're previewing also how Zach might feel about things.
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Exactly.
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Okay, would you like to know the other uh area where I mirrored the arc of the band?
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Yes, please.
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Okay, well, uh Gerard Way gets sober on this tour for and we'll talk about that in a little more detail and just like you know, what kind of how that affected dynam performance dynamics and dynamics within the band to the extent that we know about it.
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I mean, you know, now you know who else is sober, Zach?
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Who's that?
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Do you know?
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Uh yeah, I mean, I could think of a few folks.
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Okay.
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Uh well, who do we got?
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We have um Mark Marin.
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We have not Brad Pitt anymore.
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I was just what you took it right out of my mouth.
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Yeah, I know.
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That that is a death sentence.
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It's fine.
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It's fine.
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Yeah, I know.
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Okay, anyway.
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No, no, I mean I saw that and I was just like, okay, that's uh vulnerable thing to lead with.
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No, but um, my co-host is you've already said it this season that you had your eight-year anniversary.
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I say it every five five minutes.
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Well that's I tell anyone who will listen.
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I mean uh no, in all sincerity, I mean, congratulations and deal.
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Uh it feels great.
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And um, but Gerard Way, uh, there was a sentence that he said in that I thought summed up the feeling of early sobriety very well.
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Uh where he they they go into this thing in this documentary about how much coffee he drinks.
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Yep.
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And there's like all these, like all this cut together footage of people going like Gerard and his fucking coffee or whatever.
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And it cuts to him, and he's standing holding a Starbucks cup and smoking, and he goes, I wrote this down.
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I wake up and I drink a lot of fucking coffee and smoke a lot of fucking cigarettes, and it sucks.
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Yeah.
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And he also self-deprecates for loving Starbucks coffee, too.
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I know.
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Uh, which I thought was very sweet.
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He's like, I know people like hate me for it or something, which I thought was sweet.
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And I'm like, buddy, I don't hate you.
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You do whatever you gotta do to get through this and just continue to change people's lives and melt our faces.
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I I also just want to tag on to that too.
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One thing, um, because I don't know if this is what you're getting at, but just the the newness of the sobriety journey from you know, people like yourself and other friends I have that have gone through it, you know, you're you're really learning how to live.
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You're not gonna do a bunch of stuff.
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If you've been if you've been an addict for a long time, and anyone, anyone listening who has has experienced this, and anyone who hasn't experienced it can probably like use their imaginations to understand.
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There's there's for newly sober people, the the reason new sobriety is so tenuous is people are encountering a bunch of situations and doing a bunch of things that they have not done sober sometimes ever.
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And and you know, if not ever, for for often many, many years.
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And you know, the thing he's learning how to do is be the singer of my chemical romance sober for the first time.
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And I thought what was uh in addition to the coffee thing, something that was so sweetly naive was Mikey saying, uh, and Brian Schechter talks about this too, like that their uh their initial um touring manager, you know, that he had to kind of learn to be in this role where he's the focal point, people are obsessed with him all of a sudden.
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And I thought it was very sweet because Mikey said, Um, you know, I look at him as my older brother, I've always admired him.
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He's so talented, but it is kind of crazy that this person I've known for a whole year for my whole life is now loved and admired by, I don't know, hundreds of thousands of people.
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And I'm like, buddy, there are millions of people that know who your brother is.
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Yeah.
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Uh maybe not at that point, but it was like the biggest number he could conjure was hundreds of thousands of people.
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It's like in um it's like in There Will Be Blood, where that part where HW is hanging out with the daughter of the the person that Daniel Plainview is trying to buy the land from.
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And she goes, she asks him something like, How much do you think how much money does your dad have?
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It's something like that.
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How much money does your dad have?
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And he's like, I don't know.
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And she goes, $1,000?
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Right.
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And it's like, you idiot.
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He has easily $2,000.
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So I think we've done a good job, a great job of saying some of the things that might happen in this episode.
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Yeah.
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Way to go.
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We've said we might discuss stuff and then discussed it right immediately afterwards.
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Um we're we're mirroring the arc of the band.
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Now, Zach, I obviously have this direct way that I feel I'm mirroring the arc of the band uh in my, you know, ongoing sobriety journey.
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Uh, but is there a way that you feel that you are mirroring the arc of the band?
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Not necessarily mirroring the arc of the band, but I mean definitely, I don't know, mirroring the arc of oh gosh, this sounds so slimy, but mirroring the arc of the studio, maybe.
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But not, but not for like for not for financial gain.
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Obviously, this is uh we're in the podcasting medium for love of the game and just for love of my chem.
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And like with our previous seasons, I just we we chose a band that we have a mutual appreciation or love for.
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Um, and I do find myself uh just loving them even more.
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We've only done two previous seasons, but um I do I genuinely like don't want to leave Three Cheer Three Cheers era, um, which doesn't mean I have to just because we're moving on from it within the pod, but um yeah, I don't know.
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Um, so you're like mirroring the arc of like of like warning reprise records.
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Wait, what is it?
00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:31.119
Yeah, reprise records, who's on brothers, yeah.
00:17:31.119 --> 00:17:31.519
Right.
00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:35.440
You're like mirroring the arc of reprise records by being like, get back out there.
00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.319
There's more money to be made from this album site.
00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:38.960
Exactly.
00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:45.119
No, but I mean, just even listening or watching um Life on the Murder scene, which I have done many, many times.
00:17:45.119 --> 00:18:07.279
I've done uh but but only twice in in advance of this episode, once as we were planning the season quite recently, and then uh last night I watched the whole thing and um some some new musical observations definitely came to me because you're listening to songs without the vocals overlaid, and I don't have like a multi-tracking setup where I can you know phase out like just the vocals or this or that.
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:17.279
Um so yeah, a couple new things sprung to life, but I know that we'll have a blast as we progress forward in this band's catalog um and through their B-sides, but yeah, I don't know.
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:21.440
I've picked up the pencils a little bit more, so maybe if I were to go to mirror the arc.
00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:28.240
Um Yeah, Zach is, I mean, listeners who follow us on Instagram know, but Zach Zach is a killer artist.
00:18:28.480 --> 00:18:29.200
Oh, thanks, man.
00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:36.160
I that's I like that that's the part that's the part of Gerard Way that you have mirrored and I have mirrored the substance abuse issues.
00:18:38.079 --> 00:18:41.599
But that's not that's not because of you know Mike M or anything like that.
00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:42.640
But yeah, I don't know.
00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:48.559
I I'm sure something will come to me as we as we talk it through, but um but yeah, nothing nothing super specific.
00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:54.880
This is just it's such a fucking amazingly good, amazingly great album.
00:18:54.880 --> 00:19:12.000
And all the things that we've discussed, you know, in our previous two episodes just kind of are distilled in this uh this piece of media where it's just like I think the band themselves are shocked at what a um triumph and wildfire this thing is.
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:39.119
And the you know, the book talks a lot about, and then you see it in this documentary, and because it had been so many, so many years since I'd watched this, and I used to watch this thing all the time with commercial breaks, um, I think like seeing, you know, Frank and Ray kind of just not when they're on stage, but if you could imagine writing a song and then seeing an audience pump their fists and scream it back to you in such a compressed amount of time, that's gotta be quite shocking, you know?
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:42.160
Um so I really went off the rails with answering your question.
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:47.519
I don't know that I'm gonna have our audience be shouting our podcast back at us, but I don't I don't know.
00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:56.640
What would they shout if they did it's like they're all like say that episode where we like read our Yelp reviews, they're like saying them along with us or something.
00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:58.720
Like no, I genuinely don't even know how I got there.
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:06.240
So uh whole crowd of people going, she looked like Sean Young circa 1982's blade runner.
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:07.759
Oh god.
00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:11.839
Uh that's a deep cut, listeners.
00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:12.720
Go back and listen to it.
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:16.160
Zach, do you you're really good at knowing what episode different anecdotes are from?
00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:21.279
Do you think that was on our amok alb or episode that we talked about, uh Adams for Peace Amuck.
00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:22.640
They're yeah.
00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:25.359
Well, listen to every episode just in case, listeners.
00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:32.880
But I gotta tell you, Zach, um, I I'm really excited to with more previewing of what what's to come.
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:33.680
I'm real.
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:38.000
Um I'm really excited to talk about this with you, also.
00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:50.240
I gotta say, I'm gonna tease the boys a little bit on this one because this was a level of exposure to some very young, yes, very earnest men that I had not quite gotten before.
00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:57.200
But but so I just want to say I I think these guys are adorable, especially Gerard Way.
00:20:57.200 --> 00:21:05.680
And you were talking about like the roller coaster they're on, you know, they're kind of having their like that thing you do, like holy shit, our songs on the radio moment.
00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:11.599
That it was very, very cute the footage of them hearing that their album sold 11,000 copies.
00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:12.079
I know.
00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:14.160
And they're like embrace in earnest.
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:16.640
Yeah, I mean, they're floored, they can't believe it.
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:20.319
And it's like there's so much to come, you know, the like the heights go so much higher.
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:30.720
But before we kind of um break things down in in in more detail, uh I was I was just curious, you know, what if what have you been up to this week?
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:36.559
Anything, anything on the on the Zach Docket that's no, I mean I finally finished my book.
00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:40.400
So yeah, I guess mirroring the habits or mirroring the yeah, the habits of the band members.
00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:41.200
I know they like to read.
00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:42.240
I finally finished my book.
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:54.079
I'd been working on uh Mary Shelley's Frankenstein for like kind of an embarrassing amount of time, like over a month, because it was it's really, really uh enjoyable read.
00:21:54.079 --> 00:21:55.680
And I've I've wanted to read it for a really long time.
00:21:55.680 --> 00:22:10.799
I also want to read Dracula, but yeah, I was like, I'm gonna read this one, but it just put me to sleep so Quickly, so I uh had to spend some time on that, and then I just from our local library got um the book I have it right here, Zodiac by Robert Greysmith.
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:18.559
Ooh, um that was eventually adapted into uh the 2007 film Zodiac by David Fenture, and it's really, really good.
00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:20.480
I really like Robert Greysmith as like a cultural.
00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:23.039
My second favorite David Fenture movie.
00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:24.240
Oh, interesting.
00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:24.640
Yeah.
00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:28.720
Um and uh so yeah, it's got me completely hooked.
00:22:28.720 --> 00:22:34.400
So I've been reading, um, and uh, you know, I had to go into the office a couple times this week.
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:36.160
So it's just been kind of nonstop.
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:37.920
But um, what about yourself?
00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:41.839
You know, uh the usual, working and stuff like that.
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:47.200
Uh I actually saw two classic films in the cinema this week.
00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:47.599
Really?
00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:50.960
And one of them I know is a favorite film of yours.
00:22:50.960 --> 00:23:03.279
And one of them I suspect, I believe you also are a fan of, but I don't I don't I don't know that I am positive of your level of connection to it.
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:05.279
Um shall we guess?
00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:06.799
Would you like to guess?
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:12.160
Well, one of them won't be a completely earnest guess because I know that you told me several months back that you were gonna see.
00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:13.759
Was one of them 2001, a space odd?
00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:14.400
Yes.
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:14.880
Okay.
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:17.519
So And I I don't know if there would be.
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:23.839
Stanley Kubrick comes up a lot on this podcast, and I consider myself a big fan of his work.
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:50.000
Um, what I love about his movies, man, is the ones that I'm super into, and even the ones that I haven't been as immediately awestruck by, or you know, or maybe I go, that was great, but it's kind of more like that was great, like that was I can see what an accomplishment that was, and I'm still thinking about it, but uh I'm not maybe immediately like enamored with or whatever.
00:23:50.000 --> 00:23:52.480
Um they get better every time.
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:52.880
Totally.
00:23:52.880 --> 00:24:01.119
And 2001 is one that I loved from the jump, but it really just melted my brain all over again watching it.
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:08.480
Uh also took my took my 13-year-old son to that one, and I was like, uh, is he gonna think it's boring?
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:10.880
Like, you know, like blah, blah, blah.
00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:12.960
A lot of anxiety about that.
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:15.039
The dude totally got it.
00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:16.240
Super into it.
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:18.160
You should discuss it with him at some point.
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:19.519
Yeah, I would really love that.
00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:22.240
Yeah, yeah, he he was really, really into it.
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:29.359
Um, the other one that I saw, this was actually last night, was uh Life on the Murder scene.
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:31.359
Life on the Murder scene.
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:33.440
They played it in the theater.
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:34.079
It's crazy.
00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:38.640
Mortgaged your life so that you could get a print of it to play in the theater.
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:39.839
That's right.
00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:42.160
Just even though you can watch it for free online.
00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:43.119
Sorry.
00:24:43.119 --> 00:24:43.920
I know what was it?
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:44.240
Go ahead.
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:46.319
I saw um Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:47.119
Oh, really?
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:48.960
Oh, wow.
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:51.519
That is one I would I mean, I would love to see both theatrically.
00:24:51.519 --> 00:24:58.799
I've not seen 2001 theatrically, but man, is that a effective a great film, an effective film.
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:00.240
I would love to see that one theatrically.
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:02.960
Were you there the time I saw it?
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:19.119
Okay, because I I did not see it until for as much of a horror fanatic as we are, I am I did not see that one until three years ago because it was one that had always just kind of been there, but it's so old, like Last House on the Left.
00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:22.880
Is that the um uh that early West Craven's first?
00:25:22.880 --> 00:25:25.279
Yeah, I've actually never seen that.
00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:26.799
Oh man, it's so good.
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:33.599
Um, but anyways, saw it and was stunned by how I mean I know it's like you know very well regarded, but what about yeah?
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:34.799
So what's your story again?
00:25:35.119 --> 00:25:38.480
Well, I mean, my story with it is I I was curious.
00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:41.119
Well, this this that actually is better for my question.
00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:44.240
Did you find it scary the first time you saw it?
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:51.680
Um yeah, I mean I yeah, it lets uh I that's a great question.
00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:53.039
Simple and straightforward.
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:53.920
I'm trying to think.
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:59.839
Yeah, I was pretty stunned by how uncomfortable uh it made me.
00:25:59.839 --> 00:26:07.200
And you know, downright like terror and fear are maybe a little bit different than discomfort, but yeah, I think it I think it's scary.
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.519
Yeah, but it it it definitely is like kind of aiming to revolt you.
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:12.240
Yeah.
00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:15.759
And and you felt it was effective in that way.
00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:21.200
The reason I ask is because I also like you, I I really enjoy horror movies.
00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:31.680
Um, but that was a that that was a adult uh that that became a a uh hobby of mine as an adult, really.
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:41.279
The the amount of like horror movies I'd seen before I was, I don't, you know, like maybe 25, I could probably count on one or two hands at most.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.839
And you know, I was like a big fan of the shining and stuff, but it just wasn't a thing I sought out.
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:54.079
And now I really like both your more highbrow, you know, Ariaster A24 type affair, but I also love your like schlock.
00:26:54.079 --> 00:27:00.319
I, you know, like uh I love Friday the 13th part four, the final chapter.
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:03.200
You know, I I I really enjoy horror movies a lot.
00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:07.839
One of the few I had seen before I was a grown-up was the Texas Chainsaw Massacre.
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:15.839
And I watched it with a group of dudes, and I think I was 15 or 16, probably more like 16.
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:20.400
Um, and it was what's my age again?
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:23.680
And it was a Friday night.
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:46.319
Um but I watched it with like four or five dudes, and it was put on in this way where uh like it was kind of like, oh, we're putting this on and everybody's laughing at it and kind of making fun of it, and I was like not able to admit how fucking disturbed I was by it.
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:50.880
Right, and it like really, really freaked me out.
00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:56.960
Like I was just like, this movie is like really messed up and making me feel like really awful.
00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:06.640
And now I and I love it, like, but when I saw it last night, I had that same experience, and I have that experience every time I watch it.
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:16.720
And the reason I was curious is because I feel like you know, like it's like 1978's Halloween is one of my favorite movies.
00:28:16.720 --> 00:28:24.160
And I do think it's scary in that I like I see what the movie's trying to do and I think it does it really effectively.
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:33.440
But I've never I watched it for the first time as an adult in my 20s and experienced it as, oh my god, this is such a great movie.
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:47.359
I didn't experience it as I'm scared, I I feel like Michael Myers could get me, or I feel like I'm like, I'm feeling the anxiety of like I'm in this situation, which is how I felt watching Texas Chainsaw Massacre for the first time.
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:56.400
But then you hear people who watched that movie as kids when it came out, and it horrified them, and they continue to have that experience as they watch it over the years.
00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:15.279
I saw it in the theater last night, and there was a lot of people my age in there, and people were laughing a lot, and it made me feel like maybe this movie is just so attached to that.
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:22.079
It's like, am I scared of this movie or am I scared of like the memory of how it felt when I watched it the first time?
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:29.839
Because I was sitting there watching it like I am incredibly, and I know this is a weird state to go intentionally induce in yourself by seeing a movie.
00:29:29.839 --> 00:29:36.319
I I really enjoyed watching it in the theater, but it's also like I'm incredibly anxious, I'm incredibly disturbed.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:40.559
This movie really freaks me out, and I and it still has that power.
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:44.640
So I I but yeah, well anyway, do you have any thoughts about what I'm saying?
00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:59.519
Yeah, I mean, uh I think you you veered into Halloween real quick, but just so I'm clear, you're talking about the theatrical experience of seeing Texas Chainsaw people were laughing and it maybe feel made you feel a little puzzled as to how other people are taking it in.
00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:00.240
Yeah.
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:07.119
Like, and it's not that I don't think you were just saying that like maybe Halloween is sort of how you respond to how you perceive some of these people responding to that.
00:30:07.359 --> 00:30:24.079
Yes, I was using it as like a is like a when you come to it with as a fully formed adult, you you are less likely to experience the visceral terror that you would if you were watching it as a kid or somebody less accustomed to horror movies.
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:31.039
Or like, you know, at the point that Halloween came out, it was like a very like it wasn't the first slasher movie, but it was very, very original.
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:45.440
Like having a killer, so just the concept of there's a a serial killer stalking the suburbs, that enough on its own is a novel enough concept that it's really freaking people out, right?
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:50.240
But I'm coming to it with 40 years of movies that it spawned.
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:51.839
Yeah, well, I I don't know.
00:30:51.839 --> 00:31:01.759
I mean, I can only speak to so it was 2023 when I first saw Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and I knew very little about the production.
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:16.880
I knew Toby Hooper kind of proto-directed poltergeist, and um uh there was a Stuff You Should Know episode about it um that is a podcast I love, and I was like, oh, I want I want to watch Texas Chainsaw Masquer, I can't believe it got by me.
00:31:16.880 --> 00:31:25.359
And I don't know if my expectations were, and I did not listen to that episode that talked a lot about, you know, what a um how cheaply it was made and this and that.
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:35.359
But I mean I I think people laugh to express discomfort a lot too when they're puzzled by maybe how much something is getting at them primally.
00:31:35.359 --> 00:31:43.920
Um there may I think there are elements of Texas Chainsaw Massacre, kind of like Sam Raimi, who's an artist director we've also covered.
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:49.279
I think Raimi is overtly more comedic, like in his in what he's attempting.
00:31:49.279 --> 00:31:57.440
But I do think that Texas Chainsaw Massacre does have this sort of like quality to it where Leatherface is terrifying and funny.
00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:05.920
I don't know the instances that those these people were laughing, but because he's like kind of a big oath, and there is a response of kind of like, what is this going for?
00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:09.920
But it doesn't necessarily feel tonally confused, in my opinion.
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:27.200
But I mean, I think that uh, and just the way people kind of talk, it's that very early 70s kind of thing of you know, it's like so I I don't know, um, but you know, once there are listener, spoilers for a 53-year-old movie, if if I because it's 73, right?
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:27.759
Yeah.
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:42.160
Yeah, I think that once you're, you know, strapped into that chair with the actress, I don't know her name or the final girl's name, um, and you're sitting around this table while there's this gross like family indulgence and like weird, familiar hierarchy.
00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:58.079
I think that gets it something very, very primal and gross and scary, and all of the buildup to that and just like the complete and utter hopelessness without feeling like use the word hateful, I think, to describe when a movie's just like over the top violent with no.
00:32:58.079 --> 00:33:05.839
So, yeah, maybe you can that's what really scares me, in addition to the stuff that builds up to it, but it's just like complete terror and hopelessness.
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:06.640
Yes.
00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:08.319
That's what scares me about it.
00:33:08.319 --> 00:33:11.680
It's it's it's it's like there's nowhere to go.
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:22.559
Everything in the movie looks like it smells bad, everyone, everything is disgusting, and it's weird because I normally don't like it.
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:31.359
I it it that like will get used as like a stand-in for like having a good story or like depth of character or anything.
00:33:31.359 --> 00:33:51.519
This movie really like rides the line where it is like kind of this like grimy exploitation film, but is also like a really good movie and like really well shot on like a nothing budget and exciting and original, and you know, so I but you're you're you you brought up uncomfortable laughter.
00:33:51.519 --> 00:34:00.640
The reason I told you about both these movies, Zach, is would you believe that there was also a lot of laughter during 2001 a space odyssey?
00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:19.440
And I'm starting to wonder that if there is an epidemic happening of performative laughter taking place in when we are watching recognizable uh pieces of cinema history.
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:26.079
Because I in 2001, it every laugh was like, I know this part.
00:34:26.079 --> 00:34:28.000
Oh, I don't like that.
00:34:28.000 --> 00:34:31.840
Yeah, and so I is this something that you're encountering out there?
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:39.920
The last time I encountered that was when um Kailani and I saw uh Deadpool and Wolverine.
00:34:39.920 --> 00:35:14.800
There was a particularly loud audience member that was part of a duo that when like um Wolverine's you know bones had been dug up and were being reanimated, and then other parts, like different appearances of different, you know, superheroes that played by different actors or whatever, there was a it was a laughter of like, I know that oh god, it's so hard to like imbue this much meaning into somebody's laughter and maybe a couple different words sprinkled in, but of like I knew this is coming because I'm such a comic fan, and I can't believe it, like how bombastically disrespectful this is being.
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:17.440
It was very loaded, it was very performative.
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.000
Yes.
00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:22.400
Um, I and so, but you know, it didn't like ruin the experience or anything.
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:27.599
The ex the the movie uh did plenty of its own heavy lifting on that front for me.
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:28.960
Uh yeah, so I don't know.
00:35:28.960 --> 00:35:42.480
I haven't seen a classically beloved film like that, but throughout all of 2001, like the three different sections or it was both of these movies together that made me wonder because and and it didn't ruin either cinema experience for me either.
00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:56.159
Um, and I don't want to be like the joy police, you know, like laughter is an involuntary reaction and it's a way that we express like we we express more things than just like that was funny with laughter, right?
00:35:56.159 --> 00:36:23.360
And and you know, like if I watch something that I'm like deeply familiar with, like Star Wars or whatever, I'm like likely to like laugh at things where it's like, you know, it's because I I have a specific like thing about how this line, it's like you and me have all these like lines from movies that are not like iconic lines, but that it like be quick, you know, or whatever.
00:36:23.360 --> 00:36:26.000
Yeah, like it that would make me laugh.
00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:38.960
But it was the way the laughter was in both movies that I was like, hey, everyone can like relax and just like have the confidence that everyone around you like understands that you get this movie.
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:40.960
Okay, I I'm getting it now.
00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:46.639
Yeah, because there are, I was just thinking, like, there are some humorous beats in 2001 that have taken me a long time.
00:36:46.639 --> 00:36:47.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:52.800
For through some like there's some great, you know, uh filmic YouTube channels out there or podcasts or what, you know, what have you.
00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:57.440
Like, there's no shortage of commentary on either of those pieces, particularly 2001.
00:36:57.440 --> 00:37:01.360
But like uh the the reading the instructions to the toilet is funny.
00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:01.840
Yeah.
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:05.280
Um, you know, there's maybe one or two funny parts in the Dawn of Man.
00:37:05.280 --> 00:37:10.159
Nothing that part's pretty somber, but uh what were they laughing?
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:13.599
What what just tell me one moment that like stood out to you?
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:17.039
I mean, you know, um I'm sorry, Dave.
00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:19.039
I'm afraid I can't do that.
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:22.800
Like it was a lot of that.
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.840
Also, this was this was in Berkeley too.
00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:34.880
So it was like, you know, like I was like, I was tell your story about seeing one battle after another, what the response was with John's character.
00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:39.360
God I've never hated an audience more by proxy through a story than this.
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:51.119
I think if I remember it right, I'm sorry that I don't remember my own life, but when I saw one battle after another, it was a packed house, you know, opening night, tons of like palpable excitement in the room.
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:55.440
Everyone who is there is like greatly anticipating this movie.
00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:59.440
But I live in Oakland and it's a very liberal place.
00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:00.320
And guess what?
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:01.599
I did that on purpose.
00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:09.760
So I am I am I am also a Bay Area liberal, and that's totally cool and fine with me.
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:17.360
Again, it's the performance of it where it's like like, well, I haven't said what happened.
00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:29.119
People would people would woo every time one of the like fascist characters uh you know got come upped in some way in that movie.
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:32.719
Oh, I thought they would boo at Lockjaw too, Sean Penn's character.
00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:34.000
I don't remember.
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:36.079
If I said that, then it probably happened.
00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:53.280
Because the way I remember it, I don't know if the text pulled up in front of me, and again, this could be, but uh the way Walker told it that made me laugh so hard was he said audiences were booing Sean Penn's character as if we need to like virtue signal that we like don't agree with his racist sentiments.
00:38:53.599 --> 00:39:00.960
People were reacting-that's shorter and funnier, but people were reacting to things in the movie as if to let everyone know.
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:21.519
Um, I am not on the sides of the characters who are in a cult that uh is hunting down the mixed-race daughter of one of these characters because according to their value system, it is a deeply shameful secret that he had sex with a black woman.
00:39:21.519 --> 00:39:35.599
Like something that is like like so ugly that it is played for laughs in the movie while also not diminishing the real-world stuff that it is alluding to.
00:39:35.599 --> 00:39:53.920
And that movie rides the line masterfully, and the way you should enjoy that is by laughing at the funny parts and shutting the fuck up during the like serious dramatic parts and not announcing to everyone in the room, I think that Willa is the good guy of this movie, not Sean Penn.
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:56.239
And yeah, it was super annoying.
00:39:56.239 --> 00:40:01.039
And Zach, there was something in particular at this 2001 screening.
00:40:01.599 --> 00:40:02.079
Tell me.
00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:07.199
So I was sitting, it was it was very packed, and like I said, it was a lot of like Berkeley white hairs.
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:10.960
Like I was like, I was a child in this room, okay?
00:40:11.199 --> 00:40:12.000
Okay, okay.
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:20.880
Yeah, like I'm like, you know, people are going, like, wow, it's been a it's it's been a long time since we've been around someone who's from Generation Z.
00:40:20.880 --> 00:40:22.079
When they saw me.
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:25.519
Oh, really?
00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:32.639
So long, I got to like take in the audience around me, and then I purposely waited at the door like as the theater attendant to just examine the age of all my fellows.
00:40:32.639 --> 00:40:37.039
And everyone was like 65 and up.
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:37.760
But please go ahead.
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:38.719
2001.
00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:40.239
Uh no, no, that's great.
00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:41.039
That's a great idea.
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:46.880
That's really so I was like, I'm going to stay and look because it's dark in here, but everyone seems really old, and I was right.
00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:50.800
Oh my God, I bet half those people fell asleep after an hour or two.
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:51.840
Perhaps.
00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:52.159
Yeah.
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:54.000
Um I am starting.
00:40:54.000 --> 00:40:56.320
I used to be like, how do people sleep at the movies all the time?
00:40:56.320 --> 00:40:58.320
And now that I'm getting a little older, I get it.
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:01.440
If I'm bored in a movie, I go, it's nap time.
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:02.000
Okay.
00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:08.559
Okay, so somebody next to me, there was a couple next to me, and they were easily in their 70s.
00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:17.599
So obviously, like that could that doesn't necessarily mean that they've been together for decades and decades, but I it seemed like they had.
00:41:17.599 --> 00:41:26.960
It did not seem like a new relationship, uh, and just based on their age, you know, very likely that they have been married or together for a long, long time.
00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:35.440
The guy was right at the threshold of if he talked one more time, I was gonna say something.
00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:37.679
Okay, but it was almost worse.
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:42.960
Where it's like obviously the best thing is no, like the the standard is no talking.
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:44.480
We're in a movie theater.
00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:47.119
And I will say something.
00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:48.480
I know you will too.
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:54.559
Like I I will turn and you know, I I don't start at a 10, but I will turn and go, hey, would you please be quiet?
00:41:54.559 --> 00:41:55.840
Or would you please not talk?
00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:58.159
Or I'll do a finger to the lips, whatever.
00:41:58.159 --> 00:41:59.679
Their lips, not mine.
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:00.639
Can you imagine?
00:42:00.639 --> 00:42:11.280
Um, but this was almost worse because it's like I'm not afraid of that confrontation, but I don't relish it.
00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:19.119
And if somebody if somebody says one thing, I don't immediately go, I'm assuming you're gonna talk forever.
00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:27.920
And then if they say one thing and then like 15 minutes later say another thing, it's kind of like, okay, well, it kind of has to be a little more frequent than this.
00:42:28.079 --> 00:42:31.760
So it was like all allegations, like you need a mountain of them before we can go.
00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:34.079
Unfortunately.
00:42:34.320 --> 00:42:35.119
That's right.
00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:39.519
Even though I'm, I will say, I'm stressed from the first time you said it.
00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:48.079
Unfortunately, just due to the nature of these things and the amount of predators out there.
00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:52.159
So yeah, I think we found our totally respectful and uh one-to-one comparison.
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:53.440
That's really funny.
00:42:53.440 --> 00:43:05.039
Yeah, it's like if I'm walking down a dark street and I see somebody in a long overcoat in their hands with their hands in their pockets, I'm not gonna scream that guy's got a gun, but I'm watching you.
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:06.159
Yes, absolutely.
00:43:06.400 --> 00:43:07.360
And this is like that.
00:43:07.360 --> 00:43:13.440
Well, so this was that where it's like he he was peppering in observations.
00:43:13.440 --> 00:43:21.119
And it was really interesting too because he maybe spoke once or twice during the first uh half, and then there's an intermission.
00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:29.679
And he came back from the intermission like really energized and like really and like wanted to smoke some pot or something.
00:43:29.679 --> 00:43:33.519
Yeah, maybe so because he wanted to chat way more.
00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:53.920
And what he would do whenever he would talk was he would explain what uh we were seeing on the screen to his fully mentally cognizant aware uh wife or partner who I think had seen the movie before, also.
00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:59.760
And he'd be like And even if they hadn't, the time to explain two thousand one is not during the
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:48.000
movie you let someone take it in experientially yes and Zach I mean there's talk about it after you don't ex but yes go ahead but it was like it was this it was like this thing where it's like dude she like is just as capable of you as like following the movie I'm not explaining it to my 13 year old well yes exactly yeah like you know do one of them do one of them like do one well he I I don't I couldn't hear I I would hear him go I would hear him go like that's where and she and she would go mm-hmm like she wasn't into it either cold as ice yeah and then Zach and this is this is what I will end the story on the one thing I did hear clear as day is he leans over and do you um you know the the shot where you first see you probably know the name of the ship.
00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:57.280
I don't but the ship that Dave and Frank are on that's on the mission to Jupiter and it's like look it it it looks almost like a sperm cell and it's a very Yeah.
00:44:57.280 --> 00:44:58.559
Uh do you know the name of it?
00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:09.199
You don't we don't need it but uh no I don't I don't remember well there's a very long like glory shot of of this ship and it's like panning across very very slow.
00:45:09.199 --> 00:45:13.920
You're seeing the whole thing and it's really like doing a great job of even though it's Discovery.
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:14.800
There you go.
00:45:14.800 --> 00:46:23.599
Even though this is we're looking at a model uh it's it's doing an amazing job of like communicating the scale of this massive ship to the audience and my man leans into his wife and loud enough for me to hear clear as a bell goes the ships look like sex toys oh god and then leans back Zach he said it horny like he was like the ships look like sex toys remember those yeah it was kind of like it looks like that one that you like that we have the thing that you has replaced me because it doesn't explain movies to you and instead just gets you off it looks like that so that was those were my that was my movie core you did not end up confronting the person it was bad enough too it was the the the one where there was one where I was like okay I was too slow on that one like it would have been like weird if like he said something then five seconds later I go be quiet.
00:46:23.599 --> 00:46:34.639
So it was like I but I was like okay he's getting chatty and if he says one more thing I'm gonna ask him to be quiet and that was that was it he must have maybe he was picking up my vibe because that was it.
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:39.280
Now I I want to move into this I want to move into talking about three cheers.
00:46:39.280 --> 00:47:13.760
Before I do I I am compelled to tell you now do you know the craziest thing somebody has ever said to me when I asked them to stop talking in a movie theater did I tell you this one during everything everywhere all at once oh no uh you did but I can't remember please go ahead okay dude behind me chatting up a storm like I I said something 10 minutes into the movie because he's doing what and what he's he's not having a conversation he's tagging each thing that happens in the movie with like an exclamation of some kind she got she got wasted or something like that.
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:44.400
Yeah yeah exactly like it's like um oh they're done exactly I think one was like the the the young woman character like says something disrespectful to her mom and this guy behind this guy behind me goes like yes she's like shut up bitch something like that it's and it's full volume like and and I turn around and I was my girlfriend and I were in a fight also before we went to the movie.
00:47:44.400 --> 00:47:56.800
So it's like you know what it's like you're you're like we're not getting the log now we're about to sit down and watch a two hour movie like no one wants to like not do the thing we said we were gonna do but the vibe is off.
00:47:56.800 --> 00:47:58.559
So I was like in a bad mood.
00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:06.559
Yeah and so I turned around and I think like less gently than I would if I was like trying to like not have there be a shitty vibe.
00:48:06.559 --> 00:48:45.280
I just go hey well no I remember Zach I actually had to say hey a few times to get him to look at me because he's directly behind me and I turn around I go hey and he doesn't look at me and I go hey and and he then he looks at me and I go will you stop talking and he goes and he stares at me for like a good few seconds and he goes I'm still going to talk but I'll talk less oh wow okay and I and I I gotta tell you he he flummoxed me so thoroughly with that reaction that that is what happened.
00:48:45.280 --> 00:49:12.559
Like it was kind of like well okay okay like I guess I guess and that is what happened is he still periodically talked and he but he stopped doing it at the clip that he was and I was like it was one of those things where you're like I didn't know that was like an option like right like this guy is kind of brilliant in a way because it's like he's like picked this third way.
00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:18.719
Like I thought there were people that that don't talk in movies and assholes who do talk in movies.
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:31.599
I had no idea there was this thing where you could be like I'm gonna do the thing that you have told me you don't like and my partner who's with me looks really embarrassed that you've confronted me but I'm not going to do it as much.
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:42.159
And it and it did disarm me to where I was like he he scaled it back to that one where it's like it's every 10 minutes or so he's saying one thing.
00:49:42.480 --> 00:49:49.840
Wow hopefully you sucked the joy out of it enough to where he felt like uh yeah that he had to dial it back or something.
00:49:50.079 --> 00:50:01.440
I guess who was he doing it for was he with a group that like he was with joy it was an old guy and he was with another old guy and I got I got like a married vibe from them.
00:50:01.440 --> 00:50:01.920
Okay.
00:50:01.920 --> 00:50:10.320
Uh and the guy he was with whatever their relationship was the guy he was with looked embarrassed that he was doing it.
00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:11.360
Okay.
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:12.639
And that's helpful.
00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:36.159
Yeah I mean I don't know it was a packed theater I I can't imagine I was the only person in his proximity who was annoyed by it who did I came to see that movie and not hear him say shut up bitch afterwards or whatever but did I tell you my experience of seeing the departed and the the like accidental movie etiquette rule that I broke that is like oh my gosh because it was no tell me.
00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:48.079
Okay well this is not having to do with asking someone to like please be quiet and respect the film but uh this is my first Scorsese I ever got to see theatrically didn't really know who Martin Scorsese was.
00:50:48.079 --> 00:50:51.519
I think I knew about the Aviator but I was like that movie looks fucking awesome.
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:57.119
I'm starting to get to see it was 2006 so you were hot off of watching Life on the Murder scene.
00:50:57.440 --> 00:51:06.559
Absolutely yeah um and uh yeah just at a point in my life when it's like I I can go see our rated movies with my friends, you know, which is like a really fun thing.
00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:49.199
And uh I think you had told me what a cool movie it was but okay um it had been out for a little bit uh and so you know in the town we grew up in was very small theater so it was like a Wednesday night me and my two friends went and saw it and we were so we were a trio and there was uh a duo in the theater and maybe like you know four other people so like very very limited amount and my three the the three of us my two friends and I we sat in like the middle of a row all three of us together and uh you know it's a really long movie there's a lot going on and so I had to pee about I don't know I would say I didn't miss like the big moment you know I don't want to spoil the departed for anyone but like I could tell something big was about to happen.
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:57.199
So I ran to the bathroom pee and came back with such vigor and intensity I did not realize that I sat in between a duo.
00:51:57.199 --> 00:52:05.119
So I went to go sit in between my two friends but I actually accidentally sat in between these two dudes like in their 40s or 50s.
00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:06.239
Oh my God.
00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:20.719
And I'm so enveloped in the movie it takes me a full I'm not exaggerating Walker like 90 seconds to realize that I'm game with such fervor and intensity and sat between these two friends who were doing the and I say this you know in jest no homo of the time.
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:21.119
Right.
00:52:21.119 --> 00:52:23.599
You know like God forbid you just can't sit next to your friends.
00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:54.079
It was totally that and because they were friends and they did leave a seat in between the two of them and I look to my right and the absolute puzzlement and like just bafflement of the guy and then I look to my left it was so comical and I just got up and ran to Rose Kit to where my actual friends were and then we had a good laugh that after but it was so funny because I was so in it and I they like must have thought I was playing a joke or just like socially very unaware you like put an arm around each one of them.
00:52:54.079 --> 00:53:04.480
It felt like that yeah they were just looking at me like I mean you can't see my Facebook like it took a long time for me to know I was because I was like wait a second that's not my friend's hand.
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:24.159
Anyway so yeah it's like when you like are a little kid and you go tug on the shirt of like a random adult thinking it's your dad yeah yeah yeah Zach that's a that's a mistake I make more often than I should yeah I think that's what the Fiona Apple song a mistake is about.
00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:29.920
It's yeah it's about me walking into a woman's room the the ladies' room at Planet Fitness.
00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:41.199
Yes yes absolutely well what what do you say what do you say we get into uh the topic at hand we've already covered a couple of my notes but I don't know why don't you why don't you kick us off?
00:53:41.199 --> 00:53:49.679
Like what's what is the unturned stone the most important unturned stone about this era that that is on your mind?
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:50.400
I don't know.
00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:57.599
I mean I I was just thinking about that a lot I don't know that it's like this really brought anything super new to life.
00:53:57.599 --> 00:54:43.920
I I think that it cracks me up what I learn about researching um and how to best research a musical artist that I love and thought I was very familiar with but then when it's like when you're gonna be talking about them you know and our and I'm I'm very uh proud and and delighted that we we have an audience at least for our first two seasons hopefully for this one you know I want to like bring something interesting to say um so I guess you approach the material a little bit differently even if you think you know a lot about the thing that you love, you know so as I'm watching this last night I'm like cracking myself up because I'm like oh my God when I was you know having a hard time differentiating the names Craig Aaronson from Brian Scheckter in like our first episode and who was the AR man and who was their touring manager vice versa.
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:55.119
And yet when I watch this Life on the murder scene documentary, it's immediately clear who is who and that there's an age gap of like 35 years between the two of them.
00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:58.320
And you know like putting faces to names or something like that.
00:54:58.320 --> 00:55:17.119
Or um you know the life story that is is covered I feel like you know I I have done in a like several internet searches like before and since we started like is there a more comprehensive biography or you know whatever about the band there really isn't not the Life It Seems um by Tom Bryan is like the definitive My Chemical Romance bio.
00:55:17.119 --> 00:55:23.360
And it's really funny to now have read it I've read the book twice now and I'm going through it just as we go through the albums, you know, just to refamiliarize myself.
00:55:23.360 --> 00:55:30.719
But the book really is just like kind of animating is the wrong word but um drawing out a lot of what is covered in Life on the Murder scene.
00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:49.119
It is you get the quick bio of the band, their formation by the band um and at first like I think a critique you made of it off Mike's like several months ago or a month ago was like uh and I hope it you don't mind if I'm like quoting you but that you're like yeah they'll state a fact and then it'll show each band member restating it.
00:55:49.119 --> 00:55:56.079
And I agree and I think that that goes to show that this was just like put together quickly as like hey we gotta keep my chemical romance top of mind.
00:55:56.079 --> 00:56:21.360
But after about an hour of watching it I think it really um dives into some interesting things about you know fame certainly alcoholism yeah and I mean and some other things too and I I I want to talk about those in in greater depth but like I think that my big takeaway from it is like this exists in a very interesting era similar of media similar to the band.
00:56:21.360 --> 00:56:35.519
YouTube was made available I want to say in 2005 I am a uh not a YouTube addict where I'm like I'm educated by it or something but I I love some channels that have videos that are up to like seven or eight hours long.
00:56:35.519 --> 00:56:39.039
I'm a YouTube premium subscriber this is not a some weird brag.
00:56:39.039 --> 00:57:14.159
I'm just saying that like I really love long form YouTube YouTube uh video essays and um this is not that this is not in that era this is not in 1997 where Radiohead had the um post okay computer documentary meeting people is easy that you know is in a very Radiohead fashion is like kind of puzzling as far as like you know what not not puzzling but it's more esoteric it's like more esoteric thank you yeah this feels more cobbled together by somebody that's trying to market a band and it's two hours long and it probably could be an hour just like this episode.
00:57:14.159 --> 00:57:28.880
I I do think that about an hour in as they start to talk about um Girard's battle with you know alcohol and and other various substances there starts to get some meat on the bone and oh I'm sorry I was talking about the era of media though.
00:57:28.880 --> 00:57:51.760
So YouTube is a brand new thing at at you know um when this comes out the MTV sort of media era is dying on the vine and you know I don't know where vinyl sales were at in 2006 compared to today but they were certainly like less novel um I would say maybe or or maybe that was like less I mean did they even I'd be shocked if they even released this album on vinyl initially.
00:57:51.760 --> 00:57:52.239
Right.
00:57:52.239 --> 00:57:57.280
So it just seems like a product of the time where it's like hey you know a YouTube video could only be up to 10 minutes long.
00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:00.719
That was the the way that it was until I think 2012 or 2010.
00:58:00.719 --> 00:58:01.119
Okay.
00:58:01.119 --> 00:58:21.760
There's a cap on length so now I feel like this this sort of supplemental media is either delivered like Jack White will do as like part of the vinyl or like you know uh for movies it'll be like Criterion you want all these extra interviews of Martin Scorsese talking about after hours like subscribe to this other platform or know the right fucking YouTube channel to get this on before they take it down.
00:58:21.760 --> 00:58:22.880
You know what I'm saying?
00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:32.639
So it's it's kind of like I think hard to pin down what era of media this exists in and I think that's why it takes about an hour to get to anything super interesting.
00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:34.239
But those are my general thoughts.
00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:35.519
What do you have to say on any of that?
00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:38.239
That was that was kind of a brain dump no I think that all makes sense.
00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:42.000
I mean I'm gonna be a little harsh here and I want to say that it's with love.
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:52.480
And and I said I'm gonna like I think that they're like I love a good documentary about bands that I don't even care about.
00:58:52.480 --> 00:58:58.320
You know I think like possibly the best music documentary I've ever seen is some kind of monster.
00:58:58.320 --> 00:59:05.840
Not that I like hate Metallica or anything but I I don't I'm not a fan of that movie because I'm some massive Metallica fan.
00:59:05.840 --> 00:59:22.400
It's because very interesting they're just running the cameras at a super interesting time and I really like I think that like is not that this is like super well made no I no I understand I understand like I I totally get it.
00:59:22.400 --> 01:00:02.400
I I just um it's funny because I I the reason I brought up the urethra chronicles is if I was a teenager and a My Chemical romance fan when this came out I would have eaten this up just because it's like you were so I I think you're getting it like kind of early internet culture too where it's like early reality TV too yeah it's like you don't have like unlimited access now we have so much fucking access to like every uh public figure that we could possibly into that it's now special to me when somebody is not on social media.
01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:17.280
Yeah because it's like yeah exactly it's like oh you're so famous that you still exist in the rarefied air of somebody that I don't have like constant visibility of right um so I would have I would have been crazy for this.
01:00:17.280 --> 01:00:33.360
However watching it as a 40 year old man for the time this was possibly the worst made documentary I have ever seen in my entire life I would say um because it's like it feels like a digital download.
01:00:33.360 --> 01:00:42.559
There's no it feels like something a two hour enhanced CD piece you know like where you would like do you remember enhanced CDs?
01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:43.039
Mm-hmm.
01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:57.440
Yeah you'd get a CD and you'd put it in your your computer and then it's like it has like video like very like uh pixelated like video content and the very shirt you're wearing of White Pony uh I had an enhanced CD of or we did.
01:00:57.440 --> 01:01:47.519
Yeah and it had the uh the like Pac-Man game where you like uh were the the guys' heads and stuff all that to say so there's not like a lot to be gained from like dumping on this thing that was like you said made as basically promotional material for the band in 2006 to you know like and I'm sure there was like a demand for it right like I mean you yourself were like this is my new favorite band and and how do I find out more about them oh good they're playing a they're playing a two hour thing on fuse with all the information about them but I mean not only did it have like literally every single statement that was made they would show every single member of the band and every single person associated with the band repeat that statement.
01:01:47.519 --> 01:02:05.360
I don't even remember what it was but he it showed him say it in one interview and then it cut to him saying it in another interview.
01:02:05.360 --> 01:02:23.920
I wrote down the low point of this documentary for me was uh there was a point where Gerard is filming himself putting on makeup and you hear somebody go, I'm out of hand sanitizer and that's in there.
01:02:23.920 --> 01:02:30.000
For like the for absolutely no discernible reason.
01:02:30.000 --> 01:02:31.840
Yeah so it was really funny.
01:02:31.840 --> 01:02:40.320
I wrote it's up there with the woman who wasn't there for worst documentary I've ever seen which I didn't like have you seen that documentary?
01:02:40.320 --> 01:03:03.280
Uh I don't believe so no it's about this woman I'll I'll make this really quick but it it was it was like do you remember when the tide started turning when like we all had like you know Netflix digital was like still new enough that it was like oh there's all these documentaries or whatever but you remember as you started to realize like are documentaries starting to suck?
01:03:03.280 --> 01:03:41.360
Yes like am I like watching crap and it's just called a documentary there was one called The Woman Who Wasn't There and it was about this woman who is like from the aristocracy of Argentina and uh she lied about being in 9-11 and being a 9-11 survivor and joined all these support groups and was very like public facing about it and she was some sort of like trauma tourist and you know that's very unusual behavior and you know may maybe you can get an article out of it or maybe like but I know you can't get a documentary out of it because I watched this thing.
01:03:41.360 --> 01:03:48.079
And once you've said that it's like there's no tension in the story at all.
01:03:48.079 --> 01:03:54.880
Like once you have been like this woman said she's in nine was in 9-11 right but she was lying there what there isn't more to it.
01:03:54.880 --> 01:03:58.960
She didn't then like build 9-11 victims out of a bunch of money.
01:03:58.960 --> 01:04:31.519
Totally or you know like it's just like that's the whole story like lame lady seeks attention and I remember it doing this thing where like an hour into this thing it's already like a massive stretch and then they start going through all her lies lie by lie and going she said that she was working on the 50th floor of building one but she was actually staying at a hotel in New Hampshire.
01:04:31.519 --> 01:04:42.159
And it was like yes you already told me she was not in 911 and they would go through like each thing and it's like here's another way that she wasn't in 911.
01:04:42.159 --> 01:04:42.480
Right.
01:04:42.480 --> 01:05:02.800
And it's like there's only how many ways so this made me think of that where I'm just like like uh the audacity of like conveying the same bit of information over and over but I get that it was like this was just content for kids who just like wanted to spend every second they could with these guys.
01:05:02.800 --> 01:05:04.880
So I get it from that point of view.
01:05:05.599 --> 01:05:52.559
Yeah it doesn't have the it doesn't have the ambition of meeting people as easy the um you know unofficial like touring documentary by Radiohead you know that where they're really um you know diving into this like uh just just the the artistry of that vibe which is sort of like difficult to pin down and even describe right like where Stanley Donwood is doing these you know um photographic like paint whatever just watch that documentary if you want something more um cerebral I guess even though I do think that the overall who knows what the intention is but what I got out of meeting people is easy is like being asked the same fucking questions and you know being a critical darling is maybe one of the goals that you're seeking like as an artist.
01:05:52.559 --> 01:06:07.280
Not the goal um but that you know can kind of make you feel like you're going crazy and then intentionally or not I think it does sort of Um, maybe some of the writing uh lyrically specifically of the the next album, Kidday.
01:06:07.280 --> 01:06:08.639
I'm talking about Radiohead context.
01:06:08.639 --> 01:06:11.760
I I do think that this serves a similar function.
01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:18.880
So not necessarily for informing the writing, but it's hard for me because I am transported back to this period.
01:06:18.880 --> 01:06:31.039
You mentioned Fuse, so uh listeners, there was the the music channel Fuse if every world could still be around, but that's how I discovered my chemical romance in in 2005 through their music videos, and then this played on all the time.
01:06:31.039 --> 01:06:39.440
I watched this so much that when I re-watched it a couple months back, I rhythmically, I mean this isn't that incredible, but I could rhythmically feel the commercial breaks.
01:06:39.440 --> 01:06:43.599
Um, and I think what you're saying is is is spot on.
01:06:43.599 --> 01:06:48.079
Like the and I didn't time it, but I know that like I paused it a couple times to make some notes.
01:06:48.079 --> 01:07:05.199
And I I think like an hour of cutting through though of them just like establishing like big, you know, hit it big, and Helena is about their grandmother, and that was really tough or whatever, and sort of reinforcing, but then you kind of get to see like life on the road and these things that I feel like we've been talking about.
01:07:05.199 --> 01:07:06.719
That again, I'm I'm agreeing with you.
01:07:06.719 --> 01:07:19.119
I think it's just because I was I was and I am so thirsty for these or interested in in these guys' personality and Gerard being the the most interesting, but I think Ray is seems very interesting as well, with or without this piece of media.
01:07:19.119 --> 01:07:28.480
But it does at about the hour mark dive into, you know, um just his rock bottom with alcoholism that it started.
01:07:28.480 --> 01:07:32.079
And it reminded me of, and and I was able to laugh at this a little bit.
01:07:32.079 --> 01:07:51.280
Um, well, actually, before I'll just say too, I was transported back to not only the commercial breaks, but when I would watch this, because I don't think I really watched it much besides the year that it came out when I was watching, because by the time I became a My Chemical Romance super fan and the Black Parade came out, I didn't need to like go back to this as much.
01:07:51.280 --> 01:07:58.079
But I was like, oh my gosh, I remember watching this and never having had a drink of alcohol in my life.
01:07:58.079 --> 01:08:22.560
And that was really interesting because I do feel like watching it now, as you said, we have so much more access to people famous, whether they're in bands or whatever, because there's you know all these different for most uh public figures, you know, keeping up with your Instagram and these videos and pretending to be real, frankly, is such a part of uh of the the burden or whatever.
01:08:22.560 --> 01:08:24.319
I don't know, to keep your brand alive.
01:08:24.319 --> 01:08:37.439
And watching this, I was like, wow, the footage of Gerard being sloppy drunk and showing his bottom, not his butt, sorry, but his rock bottom or what they're as they're describing it linearly in this journey.
01:08:37.439 --> 01:08:43.199
I know things are not this linear, is like kind of exploitative and really sad.
01:08:43.199 --> 01:08:56.399
And I remember like watching it and not even having the conception, you know, now um, you know, I I haven't been drunk in in a in a long time, but I have more experience of that and being like, yeah, gosh, when it's it's funny until it's not, right?
01:08:56.399 --> 01:08:59.520
It's cute until it's not, it's this or that.
01:08:59.520 --> 01:09:01.119
And you really see that on display.
01:09:01.119 --> 01:09:19.520
And I I gotta say, like it really made me um appreciate like how much by the time this is cobbled together footage of him filmed uh you know from a video camera, there were not camera phones, there were phones that could take photos, not video yet.
01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:33.920
Um and it it's just really sad uh to see, but also makes the tr the triumph of him being sober by the time they go into shooting the video for I'm not okay, you know, that much more impressive.
01:09:33.920 --> 01:09:38.640
As we chronicle the band's journey and as it becomes relevant, we could talk about his ongoing battle with sobriety.
01:09:38.640 --> 01:09:42.159
I actually think that's very interesting and does inform the writing of future albums.
01:09:42.159 --> 01:09:46.319
But, you know, up to this point in their journey, you really get to see that.
01:09:46.319 --> 01:09:48.399
And so I have kind of I'm of two minds of it.
01:09:48.399 --> 01:09:58.000
Number one is like I feel like it's a little bit exploitative, but also it feels a little bit like the band had such little control over how their image was portrayed.
01:09:58.000 --> 01:10:01.199
So I kind of appreciate them for just whether it was an option or not.
01:10:01.199 --> 01:10:03.840
I don't think they got final cut of this to embrace it.
01:10:03.840 --> 01:10:04.880
And I don't know.
01:10:04.880 --> 01:10:06.560
I'm I'm curious what your thoughts are on that.
01:10:06.720 --> 01:10:07.920
Yeah, no, I agree with that.
01:10:07.920 --> 01:10:22.960
I mean, I think I have a lot of compassion for like, you know, you mentioned the ongoing battle with sobriety or, you know, battle with alcoholism or sobriety, I guess, as you know, I guess it depends on where you're at, you know.
01:10:22.960 --> 01:10:27.840
Um, but I mean, it's not linear for most people.
01:10:27.840 --> 01:10:43.840
Uh, you know, I haven't had a drink or a drug in eight years, but like uh it's not my first rodeo, and it isn't for most people, you know, and it's like there's a reason people there's a reason people say, you know, to take it one day at a time.
01:10:43.840 --> 01:11:03.359
And I think that one thing that I really felt for in this, as much as the footage of him being pissy drunk is embarrassing, and you know, like I have gratitude that there's not footage of me in that state uh like publicly available.
01:11:03.359 --> 01:11:45.920
Um even more I was kind of like, oh, it's really too much for anyone to have to carry to be like to realize you're an alcoholic and get sober and do it all in public and and and like have your sobriety be a matter of public record is kind of every bit as I don't know what word to use because damaging is too harsh, but it's just like accountability is important and stuff, and there's a reason people like seek community and support, you know, you need like people need support systems to better themselves, whether it's sobriety or anything else, right?
01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:50.159
Um, like we're the that's how humans are.
01:11:50.159 --> 01:11:53.199
Like, we we don't do most things completely alone.
01:11:53.199 --> 01:11:58.079
We have some sort of infrastructure, whether it's societal or familial or whatever.
01:11:58.079 --> 01:12:06.640
But you know, your fans are not your friends, and like I don't think he's doing anything wrong.
01:12:06.640 --> 01:12:14.960
He's just being he's he seems like he's a open guy in a lot of ways.
01:12:14.960 --> 01:12:45.439
And and and so I don't think he's doing anything wrong or even has a bad impulse by publicly talking about sobriety, but it did make me like as somebody who has been in that pretty vulnerable state of life before, it made me like I got anxious watching him give all these interviews where he's like and now I'm sober, and I was an alcoholic and now I'm so and in all the interviews where he's saying that, he's like a week sober, you know, or whatever.
01:12:45.439 --> 01:12:54.239
And I just I was like, all that to say, it's like I don't begrudge him the fact that like this would be an ongoing, an ongoing issue.
01:12:54.239 --> 01:13:06.000
And uh, and I also think like documentarily, I think that there is like I think that what I would love to see, because I think my chemical romance is very worthy of a documentary.
01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:21.600
Um I and I I I think that what would make a big difference is removing talking heads from it in any way whatsoever, because I don't want to hear I'm not necessarily that interested in what the band wants me to think of them.
01:13:21.600 --> 01:13:42.399
I'm interested in showing everything that you're showing, like all the stuff they showed, the beginning of the tour, there they just recorded, you know, like it's we'll an audience would pick all that up from the conversations that are happening in the studio, on the tour bus, and then all of this stuff.
01:13:42.399 --> 01:13:46.079
Like, I I the and the the alcoholism and all of that.
01:13:46.079 --> 01:13:56.640
I um I would I would love to see a documentary of this era that was done in the style of like, you know, don't look back about Bob Dylan or I am trying to break your heart about Wilco.
01:13:56.640 --> 01:14:09.199
It's just like the cameras are there, and then the director and editor are deciding what the story is, and that and that that's not always fair to the subjects, and it's not always reality either.
01:14:09.199 --> 01:14:24.880
I mean, like it's like documentaries, just because that stuff really happened in front of a camera does not mean that the way it's being presented to us is the order in which events unfolded or that they weren't manipulated or things like that.
01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:40.399
But I it it feels to me more more truthful than Frank Aero explaining like something to me about the mission statement of the band and then, you know, footage of them doing that thing.
01:14:40.720 --> 01:14:41.520
Totally.
01:14:41.520 --> 01:14:43.920
I mean, I I I agree with you a hundred percent.
01:14:43.920 --> 01:15:06.079
Like it's it's interesting because I feel like throughout the throughout watching it, as much as I said like I don't know, you know, how much authorship or or input on Final Cut they had, it's interesting because I do feel like you could kind of feel throughout the the two hours of it the the sort of dawning realization of the need to like cultivate an image.
01:15:06.079 --> 01:15:20.000
And that image I feel like is is very genuine while also being very theatrical and all this, you know, of my chemical romance as the band goes on, but they are such rookies like at this point in in in the most adorable way.
01:15:20.000 --> 01:15:25.520
I think the the one person that comes off as like a little bit like 23 years old is Frank.
01:15:25.520 --> 01:15:27.119
And you know, that's fine.
01:15:27.119 --> 01:15:28.960
He's not like off-putting or anything like that.
01:15:28.960 --> 01:15:31.600
But I I think that I I don't know.
01:15:31.600 --> 01:15:38.159
I I find that it's interesting because you know, Gerard says and they they repeat everything good in it is repeated, as Walker said.
01:15:38.159 --> 01:15:46.079
And so yeah, I agree something more narrative with a director that is going to edit things, you know, for better or worse would be more interesting.
01:15:46.079 --> 01:15:47.199
But yeah, I don't know.
01:15:47.199 --> 01:16:00.479
I feel like you can kind of see because uh Gerard decided to get sober from a like massive spiral down, and his band really supported him and seemed to come alongside him.
01:16:00.479 --> 01:16:05.039
And I know this from we we know this from details of the book, dives in a lot more, you know, deeper.
01:16:05.039 --> 01:16:24.960
He was doing cocaine frequently, he was um, I didn't adjust it for inflation, but he was spending a lot of money on pills, and you know, yeah, it just seemed like he was really trying to who knows, you know, people get addicted to things for a lot of different reasons, but it seems like the message sort of started to evolve as, you know, like there are like you're not alone.
01:16:24.960 --> 01:16:31.439
And my chemical romance are far from the first band to like encourage their fans, you know, that you're not alone and like self-harm isn't the answer.
01:16:31.439 --> 01:16:38.000
But I do feel like that that that message maybe matured from this experience a little bit, taking it out of the documentary.
01:16:38.319 --> 01:16:39.439
Yes, I think so.
01:16:39.439 --> 01:16:57.760
And I'm gonna say something that I'm gonna pick on them a little bit, and then I'm gonna say something that I really liked because again, it it needs to be said, it's very easy for me recording a podcast, looking at something that was made in 2006 by a bunch of people.
01:16:57.760 --> 01:17:14.720
I mean, I I I will say I'm picking on this because it's like I I was a horrifyingly like earnest and open young man where it's like, you know, I had my own goddamn song lyrics tattooed on me.
01:17:14.720 --> 01:17:18.720
So it's like I am not like better than these guys.
01:17:18.720 --> 01:17:27.359
However, I really wish they would stop saying that the point of the band is to save people's lives.
01:17:27.359 --> 01:17:27.840
Yeah.
01:17:27.840 --> 01:17:32.000
They say that 25 times in the beginning of this document.
01:17:32.000 --> 01:17:35.680
It's one of the things where they show every single person say it.
01:17:35.680 --> 01:17:38.640
Like, what's the goal of this band?
01:17:38.640 --> 01:17:40.720
To save lives, to save people's lives.
01:17:40.720 --> 01:17:44.479
And it's like, guys, relax a little bit.
01:17:44.479 --> 01:17:55.600
And I think that what is missing for me at this point in the band uh chemistry is I think they need a John Lennon.
01:17:55.600 --> 01:17:59.199
They need somebody who's like taking the piss out of things a little bit.
01:17:59.199 --> 01:18:13.359
And all of them are so sincere in their ambition and simultaneously so overwhelmed by all the attention that they're responding to it the best they can.
01:18:13.359 --> 01:18:14.720
And I totally get that.
01:18:14.720 --> 01:18:18.640
But I just wish there was like a more sarcastic, silly guy around.
01:18:18.640 --> 01:18:29.840
And I know I brought this up a few times, but this is another reason I believe I should replace Frank in this band because it seems to me that he's like trying to fill that role a little bit.
01:18:29.840 --> 01:18:34.960
He's kind of like monkeying around and like playing grab ass with the boys a little bit.
01:18:35.039 --> 01:18:45.520
But he doesn't think Bob seems like he really uh enjoys the music of the band and the camaraderie, but like maybe is less in on crafting a message at this time.
01:18:45.840 --> 01:18:51.039
Oh yeah, Bob seems like a major fish out of water to me from second one.
01:18:51.039 --> 01:18:52.880
But okay, so that's one thing.
01:18:52.880 --> 01:18:54.000
I mean, do you have anything on that?
01:18:54.000 --> 01:19:00.960
That was one thing I wanted to ding them on a little bit just to just because you know, we like to we like to tease our our subjects.
01:19:01.279 --> 01:19:01.840
I I agree.
01:19:01.840 --> 01:19:11.520
I feel like that that some of them like uh that is more being I I'm maybe inclined to go a little bit easier on it because I think that people are pushing and the footage is pushing them.
01:19:11.520 --> 01:19:12.560
What's the mission of the band?
01:19:12.560 --> 01:19:22.239
And it's like, well, think of something positive, you know, like uh so I think that that is maybe where it's coming from, and because Gerard was recently sober and had had like a lot of suicidal thoughts.
01:19:22.239 --> 01:19:23.119
But I agree with you, yeah.
01:19:23.119 --> 01:19:38.239
And I and I do think that that aspect of their the grandiosity of their message only gets or of their presentation only gets more grand and more refined, while simultaneously I think the like ambition to quote unquote save lives or this or that is maybe less front and center.
01:19:38.399 --> 01:19:43.359
Like well, I think they're mute, you know, they just I think they just get better at letting the music do the talking.
01:19:43.359 --> 01:19:44.000
Totally.
01:19:44.000 --> 01:19:49.039
Um and yeah, and like I mean, that's like the funny thing about yeah, bands in general.
01:19:49.039 --> 01:19:52.319
I already brought up have you ever seen the documentary Don't Look Back?
01:19:52.319 --> 01:19:55.439
Uh that's about Bob Dylan.
01:19:55.439 --> 01:19:56.239
Bob Dylan.
01:19:56.239 --> 01:19:57.840
Yeah, I have some time ago though.
01:19:57.840 --> 01:20:05.119
Because it's it's just it's funny because I because I would ding him the exact same way, except his thing is the opposite.
01:20:05.119 --> 01:20:10.800
His thing is not being painfully earnest, it's being infuriatingly obtuse at all times.
01:20:10.800 --> 01:20:15.199
Totally and it's the same thing where it's like he's probably like 24.
01:20:15.199 --> 01:20:18.319
The documentary follows him around in Europe.
01:20:18.319 --> 01:20:22.000
He's the he's the biggest thing on the planet at the moment.
01:20:22.000 --> 01:20:31.359
And it and you see him, you see him talking to the press and stuff, and everybody is talking to this guy like he is a prophet.
01:20:31.359 --> 01:20:38.880
And I adore Bob Dylan, and I think he is one of the best songwriters to ever live.
01:20:38.880 --> 01:20:41.279
Real original take on my part, I know.
01:20:41.279 --> 01:20:43.520
Bob Dylan, good at writing songs.
01:20:43.520 --> 01:21:04.159
Uh but it is so funny because you watch that documentary and you go, boy oh boy, does that it's like watching an athlete host SNL, and it's like your like charisma uh and confidence on the court does not translate into you like doing comedy bits with professional comedians.
01:21:04.159 --> 01:21:21.039
And Bob Dylan, it's like, wow, this man who like just writes the most gorgeous and like thought-provoking poetry you've ever heard uh is a high goofball and annoying as hell.
01:21:21.039 --> 01:21:25.439
And everything he says, people are like going, like, what does it mean?
01:21:25.439 --> 01:21:29.279
It's so deep, and it's like he he is full of shit.
01:21:29.279 --> 01:21:39.119
Like he's totally like he's he uh is like fucking with you, but he doesn't even necessarily always know that he's fucking with you.
01:21:39.119 --> 01:21:49.199
And there are points in that movie where he does get really serious, and he it's not like he's like some dumbass or whatever, but he sounds 24.
01:21:49.199 --> 01:21:54.000
Like he's walking around going like, you know, the world's really fucked up, man.
01:21:54.000 --> 01:21:55.279
Like, you know what I mean?
01:21:55.279 --> 01:22:11.840
Like he's saying shit like that, like it's like a revelation, and it's really funny uh how much, you know, like there's a reason there's a reason songs are better than speeches, unless you are an incredibly compelling public speaker.
01:22:12.159 --> 01:22:12.399
Yeah.
01:22:12.399 --> 01:22:14.800
No, no, I I that that stood out to me too.
01:22:14.800 --> 01:22:17.680
I mean, I uh I have seen that as you're describing it.
01:22:17.680 --> 01:22:20.479
Uh it my I I'm remembering some things.
01:22:20.479 --> 01:22:37.359
Uh but I mean I I also think too, um, with life on the murder scene, uh I again like every good moment is packaged in repetition or is packaged in something that is not downright cringe or something like that, but it's just like, okay, we get it, let's move on to the next thing.
01:22:37.359 --> 01:22:48.479
But I do think the maturity of Gerard as a frontman, and uh probably this has to do with the alcoholism and needing that to sort of be confident and be charismatic on stage.
01:22:48.479 --> 01:22:57.199
And then the bits of footage that are deliberately told to you like these are their first show after he got sober is very interesting.
01:22:57.199 --> 01:23:05.119
And maybe I'm just bringing like, you know, wanting to have an observation on this, but like the dude's posture like seems to change completely.
01:23:05.119 --> 01:23:10.000
Um, probably just from being like drunk on stage and dehydrated and stuff like that.
01:23:10.000 --> 01:23:26.960
But there is a point after they're like, and you know, here's footage of shows after, and and definitely footage that I've seen thereafter and in their music videos, like there is, I feel like there's like a physical transformation, and I think there's you know, uh weight that's lost as well.
01:23:26.960 --> 01:23:29.439
And I thought that was really interesting to see.
01:23:29.439 --> 01:23:37.680
You know, much has been made about like Bert McCracken and Gerard Way like having some sort of potential like romance, you know, that may have been like sexual in nature.
01:23:37.680 --> 01:23:43.680
Uh, neither one of them, to my knowledge, has ever gone on the record, and it's and it'd be totally fine if it was, like it's none of my business.
01:23:43.680 --> 01:23:49.119
But it to me, it seems like it was maybe more for the purposes of shock, or maybe they're bisexual, or who the fuck knows.
01:23:49.119 --> 01:23:54.880
But it seems like they did enjoy getting a rise out of people for kissing or something like that.
01:23:55.039 --> 01:23:55.279
Yeah.
01:23:55.439 --> 01:23:58.079
And I really enjoyed the moment of Burt McCracken.
01:23:58.079 --> 01:24:04.800
There was a couple moments of him, and it was earlier on when that he's like someone asked him, whoever's holding the camera, what do you like about My Chemical Romance?
01:24:04.800 --> 01:24:07.199
He goes, The singer, the singer's fucking rad.
01:24:07.199 --> 01:24:22.159
And I was like, that's real that was really cool to me because by the time my chemical romance are formed, even in the I brought you my bullets era, like Gerard Way looks like Gerard Way, he doesn't look like that picture in uh of his senior portrait or whatever it is from high school, like he looks a little cooler.
01:24:22.159 --> 01:24:30.720
But I think even in just the the journey of this documentary, even from I'm not okay to Helena, like he looks more at at home and comfortable.
01:24:30.720 --> 01:24:32.560
And I don't know, I was just curious to have your thoughts on that.
01:24:32.560 --> 01:24:33.439
Oh, totally.
01:24:33.600 --> 01:24:37.279
I mean, I think like being drunk, like it's funny.
01:24:37.279 --> 01:24:55.600
It's uh the paradoxical thing about alcoholism and addiction is um you get to a point where you can't do the things that you do, you can't reach like the state you need to uh without whatever your drug of choice is, right?
01:24:55.600 --> 01:24:56.800
Or drugs of choice are.
01:24:56.800 --> 01:25:01.840
And in this case, it's like he can't like be like the rock star without alcohol.
01:25:01.840 --> 01:25:26.479
And then if you are able to like break that cycle of addiction and get to a point where you start to like, I don't know, like your humanity kind of starts to like come the lights start turning back on, and you're able to get comfortable in your own skin, it's crazy what a like hindrance alcohol, you realize what a hindrance alcohol was, you know?
01:25:26.479 --> 01:25:35.439
And I mean, I um I can't relate to this kind of performance, but I mean, I uh I've done a lot of stand-up drunk and for sure.
01:25:35.439 --> 01:25:47.600
I I did well, I've done it sober for longer than I did drunk, but you know, before before before I got sober, I had never experienced being on stage without uh a few drinks in me.
01:25:47.600 --> 01:25:57.520
And I like, you know, uh I'm sure part of that helped get me up there and have the hubris to like try this thing that I really wanted to try.
01:25:57.520 --> 01:26:01.039
And you know, it's like you need to like manifest confidence somehow or whatever.
01:26:01.039 --> 01:26:07.920
So I don't even begrudge it, like, but you know, it was like, oh, well, how am I gonna do that sober?
01:26:07.920 --> 01:26:15.359
And then it like I'm way quicker and way more like my timing is a million times better.
01:26:15.359 --> 01:26:22.560
I'm way more observant, I'm way and it's like this whole quality of the performances like really seem to get better for them too.
01:26:22.640 --> 01:26:22.880
Yeah.
01:26:22.880 --> 01:26:23.279
So yeah.
01:26:23.520 --> 01:26:24.079
Oh, I agree.
01:26:24.079 --> 01:26:27.199
Because it's like, and and that's what I'm saying is I don't even need to make it about my thing.
01:26:27.199 --> 01:26:29.439
It's like anybody I think anybody knows.
01:26:29.439 --> 01:26:35.119
Like, it's like you do this thing to be more in the moment, but it's actually like putting you behind a wall of ice.
01:26:35.119 --> 01:26:44.079
And like you can't really be in the moment at all if you can't do it in some sort of state of lucidity, you know.
01:26:44.399 --> 01:26:46.000
Yeah, yeah, totally, 100%.
01:26:46.000 --> 01:26:58.479
I mean, this is the I mean, and this maybe leads into like I wouldn't like call it like a larger thesis or something about my chemical romance, but I I do feel like you know it remains to be seen if they're going to make another studio album.
01:26:58.479 --> 01:27:00.880
I I tend to think that they don't, so there's a big spoiler.
01:27:00.880 --> 01:27:02.800
Maybe we can edit out and save for the finale.
01:27:02.800 --> 01:27:13.439
I tend to think that they won't, and the reason why is because I think that they and Girard specifically, and I would be happy to eat these words and hear a new studio album.
01:27:13.439 --> 01:27:17.600
I do think that there's a little bit of an understanding of like this was a young person's game.
01:27:17.600 --> 01:27:29.520
And I'm I'm Monday morning quarterbacking because they broke up in 2013 at after four studio albums that are just so fucking energetic and insane and full of life and vitality.
01:27:29.520 --> 01:27:37.520
So to watch this and be like, it's so awesome that he he really does not have the um vernacular for a 12-step program.
01:27:37.520 --> 01:27:38.880
He doesn't, he just doesn't.
01:27:38.880 --> 01:27:44.720
As you said, he's two weeks sober or a month sober, or whatever it was, and he's like, Yeah, I'm clean and sober.
01:27:44.720 --> 01:27:51.600
And like, and you know, I don't I this this I'm of two minds on this as far as like what they had authorship and whatnot.
01:27:51.600 --> 01:27:59.359
To me, it seems like they probably were like, Yeah, it's good or something, you know, but definitely less curated than something you would see today, is what I'm saying.
01:27:59.359 --> 01:28:15.359
And so when I see him, probably to his sobriety's detriment, only take, you know, a couple shows off after like contemplating suicide and and being where he was and wanting to bring it, um, I'm sure, you know, fame and attention, of course.
01:28:15.359 --> 01:28:16.399
We're we're all human beings.
01:28:16.399 --> 01:28:23.680
They're a human being, or he's a human being rather, um, really just like makes me grateful and like kind of touched in a sweet way.
01:28:23.680 --> 01:28:33.359
You know, I'm not I'm not gonna say my chemical romance like saved my life or something like that, but their music is is is just so important and moving to me and I know to millions of others as well.
01:28:33.359 --> 01:28:46.560
So I I I don't know, I guess I let things extend there a little bit in that I um it's really impressive to me that they got back on the road and that he continued writing and by all accounts stayed sober through the the black parade era.
01:28:46.560 --> 01:28:50.399
And that I think is kind of on display as well, you know.
01:28:50.399 --> 01:28:51.199
And yeah.
01:28:51.199 --> 01:28:52.960
I was curious if you had any thoughts on that.
01:28:53.199 --> 01:28:53.840
No, not really.
01:28:53.840 --> 01:28:54.960
But I mean, yeah.
01:28:54.960 --> 01:28:59.520
But I I I do I do have another I want to give Gerard some love.
01:28:59.520 --> 01:29:11.760
Um because, you know, as much as I've been like, okay, guys, like you're really like uh like dorking out with this like we're here to save lives thing, like can we c scale it back a little bit?
01:29:11.760 --> 01:30:09.199
This is a really thoughtful guy, and he has a lot to say about um emotional turmoil as it relates to like how he puts it into his art, and he clearly the thing that I can tell that this dude feels very deeply is that he is grappling with having become very important to a bunch of kids overnight, and that what kids are relating to about him is a feeling of like social alienation, and he clearly feels like a responsibility to be careful with that and have and and if he affects them so often misused, yes, and well, and speaking of misused, there was a specific thing that he talks about, and I was like, this is really cool because you actually could get away with saying the opposite of this at that time.
01:30:09.199 --> 01:30:14.239
He talks about his policy about groupies and sleeping with fans.
01:30:14.239 --> 01:30:36.319
And he like talks about he he's like, I mean, he's like viscerally enraged when he's talking about it about um somebody was somebody like in the organization or who worked at the venue was getting girls to flash him to give them backstage passes.
01:30:36.319 --> 01:30:47.279
And he goes on stage and like screams about it as like if you're if you're out there and you're a girl and you're one of our fans and anybody ever talks to you like that, you spit in their fucking faces.
01:30:47.279 --> 01:31:04.479
And it's like and he's and he's and then off stage he's talking about, yeah, I don't like I I don't believe in the whole groupy thing, like these these girls like he's basically like these girls are our fans and I don't want to exploit them.
01:31:04.479 --> 01:31:27.439
And I was thinking, Zach, about a show that I am for some reason watching for like the third or fourth time in my life right now called Entourage, which is for my money, the most nakedly offensive show that has ever been in the mainstream.
01:31:27.439 --> 01:31:34.560
Like it's like the most offensive thing like released for public consumption since like Song of the South or something.
01:31:34.560 --> 01:31:36.159
Like it is like this show.
01:31:36.159 --> 01:32:10.000
Yeah, I mean, and it is like it is such a it it is it is celebrating like what we would now call like toxic masculinity and rape culture with with a fervor of like it it feels like it's like the Roman Empire is about to fall, let's like have one last orgy, like type of thing, where it's like it's like you're like this is almost not cool, but they are like going for it, right?
01:32:10.000 --> 01:32:10.720
For sure, yeah.
01:32:10.720 --> 01:32:17.279
And I was thinking about and this, I don't know why this popped into my mind, and I don't know why I'm watching Entourage, by the way.
01:32:17.279 --> 01:32:23.600
I'm watching it with my girlfriend, and both of us spend every episode going, This is the worst show I've ever seen.
01:32:23.600 --> 01:32:29.279
It's also like there's something, it's so I actually do know why I'm watching it.
01:32:29.279 --> 01:32:32.560
It is like completely mind-numbing.
01:32:32.560 --> 01:32:45.680
Like it's like if it's like I do I have an hour before I'm gonna fall asleep, but I don't have the mental energy for something that requires even the remotest amount of thought.
01:32:45.680 --> 01:32:54.560
It's like put on an entourage, and my brain is going to be like at 40% functionality by the end of it, and I'll fall asleep.
01:32:54.560 --> 01:32:54.960
Right.
01:32:54.960 --> 01:32:56.800
Uh it's your Frankenstein.
01:32:56.800 --> 01:33:12.479
And not only that, Zach, the other thing about this show is not only is it horrifically offensive, it had it is poorly shot, written, uh, it had like none of the leads have any charisma.
01:33:12.479 --> 01:33:20.239
Like it is a abject failure on every level, and America could not get enough of these guys.
01:33:20.239 --> 01:33:32.159
In any case, there was a HBO documentary about entourage, not unlike this, not unlike Life on the Murder scene.
01:33:32.159 --> 01:33:35.119
Like it's just like, wow, America has entourage fever.
01:33:35.119 --> 01:33:41.520
Let's like sit down with all these guys and talk about what a fun ride this has been for everyone.
01:33:41.520 --> 01:33:57.920
And I haven't seen this in like, you know, 20 years or whatever, but there is a thing where they're cutting to all the guys, and they all are gleefully talking about how they are living the show.
01:33:57.920 --> 01:33:58.640
For sure.
01:33:58.640 --> 01:34:10.399
And the show is a male fantasy where they uh use their status to have sex with different women on every single episode of the show.
01:34:10.399 --> 01:34:21.520
And it cuts to each one of the actors talking about how they now sleep with all these women from being on the show.
01:34:21.520 --> 01:34:32.319
And that was like totally like be going on television and being like, I sleep with my fans, was like culturally totally fine in 2006.
01:34:32.319 --> 01:34:49.680
And it's really nice that when we watch this band at like, you know, uh coming up on the peak of their fame, and that does not mean that we have insight into everybody's human and and everybody does things they're not proud of.
01:34:49.680 --> 01:35:03.279
I don't have insight into all their offstage conduct, but as of this recording, something I don't have to compartmentalize into my fandom about my chemical romance is like, oh, these guys were like pretty gross.
01:35:03.279 --> 01:35:03.920
Yes.
01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:14.800
And not only were they not gross, they're making a point to be like, we don't want the young women at our shows to be sexualized and objectified.
01:35:14.800 --> 01:35:21.760
And that we we want to treat them as whole ass humans who are fans of the band.
01:35:21.760 --> 01:35:27.920
100% and should deserve to be there without getting harassed by the other fans or people in our organization.
01:35:28.079 --> 01:35:29.439
And I thought I thought that was really good.
01:35:29.439 --> 01:35:31.199
I agree with you completely.
01:35:31.199 --> 01:35:35.760
The caveat that you just gave uh saves me from from giving the same.
01:35:35.760 --> 01:35:45.680
And I'm gonna talk about Gerard specifically since so, even in the time since I last watched this, which uh was several months back, um, Jared Leto has been outed.
01:35:45.680 --> 01:35:48.159
Some people already knew about this in great depth.
01:35:48.159 --> 01:35:50.399
I knew that there were rumors of misconduct.
01:35:50.399 --> 01:35:57.119
I did not know until I watched the BBC documentary what a uh gross recruitment effort it was.
01:35:57.119 --> 01:35:58.399
Yeah, he's like gotta see.
01:35:58.399 --> 01:36:01.600
Yeah, it's a documentary too.
01:36:01.600 --> 01:36:17.359
So um, even though I definitely think Jared Leto, let me be clear, I think Jared Leto seems like a predator and a sicko, and I've always felt that he seems like a complete and total um uh douchebag, with or without this allegations of misconduct.
01:36:17.359 --> 01:36:22.399
But um that has has been outed as a story by the BBC.
01:36:22.399 --> 01:36:27.199
I would recommend listeners if you know check it out if you're interested in that, I guess.
01:36:27.199 --> 01:36:47.840
Um so watching that and being like, wow, I don't have a personal attachment to Jared Leto's acting, his writing, or his music, but I can see that he absolutely used that clout um to and you know, people just being famous in general, you know, you can but but Jared Leto is like a Gerard way to a lot of people, it seems.
01:36:47.840 --> 01:37:02.159
And and seeing the way the documentary frames it, that he ab and shows footage, by the way, that is so gross and uncomfortable, um, that he leveraged that, you know, to be a predator is really disparaging.
01:37:02.159 --> 01:37:10.640
And this is uh obviously maybe you could feel a little numb to that because, you know, people it just seems to be no shortage of stories of that.
01:37:10.640 --> 01:37:14.960
I'm not saying Gerard or any of the members, you know, as you said, haven't done anything.
01:37:14.960 --> 01:37:26.880
But this was shot in 2005 when I would say um the understanding of right and wrong wasn't different, but what it was, what you would maybe say on camera or the the vibe that you would want to put out was much different.
01:37:26.880 --> 01:37:29.600
And I really, really like that in a non-performative way.
01:37:29.600 --> 01:37:43.359
The very thing that you just said, that it's like I'm not going what I interpreted him to say is I'm not going to leverage like my new position of fame to um just yeah, to to whatever, like a a Gerard Leto situation.
01:37:43.359 --> 01:37:49.279
And that really stood out to me as not you know elevating Gerard to God status.
01:37:49.279 --> 01:37:54.800
And there are other ways that you could like let people down besides having sexual misconduct with underage girls.
01:37:54.800 --> 01:37:56.319
So I don't mean to say that the bar is so low.
01:37:56.319 --> 01:37:59.199
Yeah, but I know, but it does happen way too much.
01:37:59.199 --> 01:38:00.399
Way too much.
01:38:00.399 --> 01:38:12.399
And and I think that um, yeah, so that just really stood out to me for the time and place in which quote unquote rock star culture um was still very much celebrated in a different kind of way.
01:38:12.399 --> 01:38:15.119
Not, you know, the age of consent and all that was still the same.
01:38:15.119 --> 01:38:21.039
And I thought that was really did not seem curated, um, nor does it.
01:38:21.199 --> 01:38:25.600
I don't think it was a thing that like the press was looking for you to say.
01:38:25.600 --> 01:38:30.640
And it's like you said, if anything, it was Did I think I'm repeat what you said?
01:38:30.640 --> 01:38:31.439
Not at all.
01:38:31.439 --> 01:38:32.239
No, not at all.
01:38:32.239 --> 01:38:37.199
I think you're drawing a great contrast, and it's like my dumb entourage example is another contrast.
01:38:37.199 --> 01:38:54.239
It's just like it was like held up as aspirational to be like, you know, I, Kevin Dylan, brother of Matt Dylan, am having sex with a bunch of people because I played Johnny Drama on Entourage.
01:38:54.239 --> 01:39:08.479
And it doesn't mean that that rises to the level of criminality, but it certainly rises to the level of like being skeezy and and like we don't I don't think we look on that fondly when we look back on like our culture.
01:39:08.479 --> 01:39:23.199
And I would draw the and it and it also is it's the same mentality that drawn to drawn followed to his extreme leads to like a Jared Leto or Crystal Leah uh type of like situation.
01:39:23.520 --> 01:39:35.760
Yes, and I would just yeah, the Jared Leto one is particularly prominent because it's like a band that rose to prominence in 2005, and um and you know, this is something that I think has faded with time.
01:39:35.760 --> 01:39:45.680
Um there's so many different like music theorists or composers or whatever on YouTube that you know listen to Mike Emical romance and you watch their eyes just explode with delight and surprise.
01:39:45.680 --> 01:39:54.319
However, there has been like a long clout that it's like, oh, that's teenage stuff, and more specifically, that's teenage girl stuff, which who gives a fuck?
01:39:54.319 --> 01:39:54.960
I don't care.
01:39:54.960 --> 01:39:55.520
Right.
01:39:55.520 --> 01:40:02.399
But um it seems like uh Jared Leto really leveraged that to be a predator, as I said.
01:40:02.399 --> 01:40:03.840
I don't even mean to belabor the point.
01:40:03.840 --> 01:40:20.399
And it's it's not necessarily refreshing, but it is cool to see somebody who's not only aware of that and is treating that carefully, um, and not just for the purposes of publicity, but is aware of that and is like, that's something to be aware of and to treat carefully when you have a large contingent of your audience that you know admire you.
01:40:20.399 --> 01:40:22.560
And and anyways, yeah, I mean, you get the point.
01:40:22.800 --> 01:40:29.039
I get the impression that he takes the mantle that he feels tasked with like very seriously.
01:40:29.039 --> 01:40:37.439
And I would say that like it I don't even know if I necessarily agree that that's something that he has to take on.
01:40:37.439 --> 01:40:52.239
Like, I'm also fine with artists being like, you know, you know, it's like Eminem, like famously was like, hey, look, like I'm glad people like my music or whatever, but I don't want to be responsible for what people think about it or do with it.
01:40:52.479 --> 01:40:54.319
And I think that's really not a role model.
01:40:54.479 --> 01:40:57.279
Yeah, I think that's completely valid.
01:40:57.279 --> 01:41:00.319
And I and and and I don't have a problem with that either.
01:41:00.319 --> 01:41:21.520
But clearly, like he feels this very strongly, and and I find that um, you know, I I just find it like sweet and like sincere, and you know, for as much as I like have teased them for like their like hyper earnestness, I want to like acknowledge when it's a positive too.
01:41:21.520 --> 01:41:30.880
I will say, I don't did you catch that when he's to say that to the camera, he's sitting there with Frank and he's like, Yeah, we don't do the groupie thing.
01:41:30.880 --> 01:41:39.920
And Frank to me looked like he was a little bit like, well, I don't know if that is a bandwide policy.
01:41:40.479 --> 01:41:44.880
That maybe is a more Ray and Gerard and Mikey by proxy policy.
01:41:44.880 --> 01:41:45.920
Yeah, I did.
01:41:46.479 --> 01:41:47.600
Did you pick up on that?
01:41:47.600 --> 01:41:50.159
I'm not accusing Frank of anything we could even edit on.
01:41:50.159 --> 01:42:00.800
I just it was just funny because it's like Gerard, I don't know if you can speak for the whole band here that no one is ever sleeping with anybody on the road.
01:42:00.880 --> 01:42:10.640
I well, yeah, and I mean it's important context too, because it's like like I was saying, the bar being so low that somebody has fans that are you know attractive or whatever.
01:42:10.640 --> 01:42:19.600
Um, like I don't mean to like go into a puritanical mode where it's like if two people are two consenting adults, like you know, yeah, be with God.
01:42:19.600 --> 01:42:27.279
So that I don't mean to draw such a hard line, but I did think that was funny too, because Frank just seems, I think Frank is the youngest.
01:42:27.279 --> 01:42:43.439
Okay, and he he just seems like kind of on the periphery of this, whereas um something we've talked about a bunch, and and I think that you just kind of see this, it just seems like Ray and uh and Gerard have like a a really a vision that's being refined.
01:42:43.439 --> 01:42:50.640
Um and I think that you really kind of see that going into the next, the the next album cycle.
01:42:50.640 --> 01:43:02.880
Um this when I listen to this album, one of the reasons why I just cannot shut it off is just because it sounds so raw and so intense, but it is just so much fucking fun to listen to.
01:43:02.880 --> 01:43:06.560
And I feel like I don't think that this documentary captures that.
01:43:06.560 --> 01:43:15.520
I mean, it's a bit laborious to get through, but I I feel like you do see within the people them sort of absorbing that that people are really, really, really responding to this.
01:43:15.680 --> 01:43:15.920
Yeah.
01:43:16.079 --> 01:43:21.119
And they have like kind of a boyish or uh uh whatever, you know, doe-eyed surprise about it.
01:43:21.119 --> 01:43:28.880
Whereas you really see a complete and utter acceptance of that, and not in a cocky way, but by the next album cycle.
01:43:28.880 --> 01:43:31.119
So I guess that's my my little trailer.
01:43:31.439 --> 01:43:39.039
Yeah, I mean, um that that was if that was how we wrap up the episode, that's cool with me.
01:43:39.039 --> 01:43:43.279
But uh, do you have any like final thoughts about the three cheers era?
01:43:43.279 --> 01:43:48.960
And when I say final thoughts, like we don't discuss these things like in a strictly linear fashion.
01:43:48.960 --> 01:43:56.560
Like it's obviously like gonna come back up, like the things that are happening in this time and form uh the rest of the band's career as well.
01:43:56.560 --> 01:44:05.039
But yeah, I mean, as we kind of close this this chapter of My Chemical Romance out, is is there uh I mean I had one other thing.
01:44:05.119 --> 01:44:06.960
I mean, that you gave such a great blessing there.
01:44:06.960 --> 01:44:09.359
So, you know, maybe we can end on that if this sucks.
01:44:09.359 --> 01:44:11.680
But I have not read The Umbrella Academy.
01:44:11.680 --> 01:44:20.000
I've read some of it and I've read some of Doom Patrol, and I I did appreciate that um we got to see like Gerard's sketches throughout the show.
01:44:20.000 --> 01:44:20.800
Yeah, me too.
01:44:21.039 --> 01:44:22.960
It was cool watching that he still draws.
01:44:23.199 --> 01:44:25.439
It's super cool watching that he still draws.
01:44:25.439 --> 01:44:35.199
And I one of the things I think is so cool about Three Cheers for Sweet Revenge in both the music and I think the artwork weirdly matches this, is the music we've talked about it.
01:44:35.199 --> 01:44:42.399
Ray's playing and Gerard singing specifically, and Matt Pelisier's drumming, but we don't talk about Matt anymore, I guess.
01:44:42.399 --> 01:44:46.000
But is so fucking advanced and insane.
01:44:46.000 --> 01:44:55.680
It is kind of crazy that like this band was so widely embraced, and I think just goes to show the power of people's tastes, you know, and and some people are gonna hone in on different things.
01:44:55.680 --> 01:45:02.319
Similarly, the artwork kind of stunned me as well, where I'm like, oh, like his style is of its time in a way.
01:45:02.319 --> 01:45:08.479
It definitely seems like a an American who loves anime and who loved growing up on cartoons.
01:45:08.479 --> 01:45:13.439
Um, but it's like way better than like what you see the average person who can draw.
01:45:13.439 --> 01:45:20.000
And I know he had some training in that regard, yet it still has this like untrained awesomeness to it.
01:45:20.000 --> 01:45:23.760
And um, and again, tying it to the next album.
01:45:23.760 --> 01:45:37.520
I think the next album is just more refined in both its printing and its artwork, and I'm not saying one is better than the other, but seeing like the drawings, like I've never been a big fan of the insert image that's of the person's lower jaw that's in the lyric booklet for my for uh three cheers.
01:45:37.520 --> 01:45:46.079
But seeing the drawings around it that are like on his sketchpad and that he used like real fucking Sharpie and marker on, I'm like, oh no, I kind of appreciate it a lot more.
01:45:46.079 --> 01:45:55.199
And I feel like the music is that way too, where it's just like so much excitement and intensity with the little bit of just enough training to like not be pretentious.
01:45:55.199 --> 01:45:58.720
And I feel like they continue this, and it was really, really cool to see the artwork kind of matching that.
01:45:58.720 --> 01:46:00.880
It made me honestly appreciate it a little more as well.
01:46:01.199 --> 01:46:02.159
I think that's great.
01:46:02.159 --> 01:46:10.399
And I, even though I was like kind of landing the ship, it made that I did have a note that I thought was an interesting just like thing to kind of throw out.
01:46:10.399 --> 01:46:30.399
Um, because him being an an artist, a visual artist, is is really interesting because I I I find it so kind of fascinating about this band that it's Gerard Way's Hail Mary because his uh comic book career isn't going where he wants it to.
01:46:30.880 --> 01:46:31.279
Going quite.
01:46:31.279 --> 01:46:33.119
Like that's just what's that?
01:46:33.119 --> 01:46:34.640
It wasn't going where he wants it.
01:46:34.640 --> 01:46:37.359
He said it was like in the shitter, but still making some progress, too.
01:46:37.600 --> 01:46:42.159
Yeah, I mean, like it's his, yeah, he's working in comics, but it's not going where he wants it to, right?
01:46:42.159 --> 01:46:43.439
And he's like dissatisfied.
01:46:43.439 --> 01:46:52.159
But yes, it may it makes me wonder like it which thing is the dream.
01:46:52.159 --> 01:46:57.359
Like which thing is it if he like had his druthers, which thing would he have rather done?
01:46:57.359 --> 01:47:03.119
And I mean that can ch I mean what he's in his what he's a few years older than me, right?
01:47:03.119 --> 01:47:04.159
So he's in his like mid or late.
01:47:04.159 --> 01:47:05.920
Okay.
01:47:05.920 --> 01:47:09.359
So yeah, so he's approaching his like fifth decade on earth.
01:47:09.359 --> 01:47:20.960
Like it also would make sense to me if it's like he looks back on the last few decades of his life and feels total satisfaction now or whatever.
01:47:20.960 --> 01:47:26.880
But uh it made me really wonder which thing in his head is the thing that he really wants to be.
01:47:26.880 --> 01:47:35.840
Um, and it's that thing too of like, I don't know if you've ever heard that thing that it's like comedians all want to be musicians and musicians all want to be comedians.
01:47:36.239 --> 01:47:39.119
Uh I was comedians all want to get coffee and cars.
01:47:39.119 --> 01:47:40.079
I've heard that too.
01:47:40.319 --> 01:47:40.720
That's right.
01:47:40.720 --> 01:47:41.439
That's right.
01:47:41.439 --> 01:47:46.159
Uh with Jerry Seinfeld, who seems like the most fun guy.
01:47:46.159 --> 01:47:50.800
Um uh, but I was curious to ask you, Zach.
01:47:50.800 --> 01:48:02.640
Like if you like could flip a switch, and it doesn't have to be something that you it can be something that you do do as a hobby or even do as like a pursuit.
01:48:02.640 --> 01:48:03.279
Oh, sure.
01:48:03.279 --> 01:48:06.720
Like, okay, like it could be podcasting, like you know what I mean?
01:48:06.720 --> 01:48:10.399
Like, but it also could be something that you don't know how to do at all.
01:48:10.399 --> 01:48:16.319
Like it's like you could be like, you know, I always wanted to be a professional golfer or whatever.
01:48:16.560 --> 01:48:16.720
Sure.
01:48:16.880 --> 01:48:20.319
If you could do anything, paint a self-portrait, build a house.
01:48:20.319 --> 01:48:21.600
You know what I'm saying?
01:48:21.600 --> 01:48:27.039
Like, it's like like you know, you can pick anything.
01:48:27.039 --> 01:48:32.239
If you could have been that thing, is there is there something that it would be for you?
01:48:32.239 --> 01:48:33.359
Writer.
01:48:33.359 --> 01:48:37.840
Writer, and and writer of what novels?
01:48:38.239 --> 01:48:41.600
You know, uh maybe novels, but you know, definitely fictional stories.
01:48:41.600 --> 01:48:47.199
But I mean, you know, I look at someone like um Alan Moore, who's like, you know, a deity in comics.
01:48:47.199 --> 01:48:57.520
But you know, Alan Moore, yes, we think of him as a comic book author, author of Watchmen, V for Vendetta, many, you know, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, many, many things, but also like just an extra extraordinary novelist.
01:48:57.520 --> 01:49:04.560
So I think that maybe I don't want to be Alan Moore, that's not what I'm saying, but I just think writer in general, or someone like, you know, Aaron Sorkin or something like that.
01:49:04.560 --> 01:49:10.399
Like, I don't love everything he's ever written, but the dude could write a novel, he could write one of the best screenplays.
01:49:10.399 --> 01:49:22.720
Like, um, so if I had to, you know, maybe fine-tune it down, I would say novelist, you know, but I also love the freedom that writing can give somebody, whether they want to like dabble into I mean, I brought up Roderick Graysmith earlier, author of Zodiac.
01:49:22.720 --> 01:49:31.760
Like one of the biggest arcs, and this is explored in the film as well, but that he has had as an individual is like learning about obsession and that path.
01:49:31.760 --> 01:49:36.159
So I that for me, Walker, um, would be the answer on a different day.
01:49:36.159 --> 01:49:41.119
It might be like film director, but author and writer is the one that feels the most closest to home.
01:49:41.439 --> 01:49:59.760
See, I like that answer a lot because like if you said film director, that is something where it's like not that a person can't do it, but it is a thing where you you'd you'd have to realistically be like, I would have had to start this dream a while ago, right?
01:49:59.760 --> 01:50:02.560
To like be moving in that direction.
01:50:02.560 --> 01:50:04.560
For writing, yeah.
01:50:04.560 --> 01:50:10.880
For writing, though, that's like something that you can you can totally decide to be.
01:50:10.880 --> 01:50:15.840
I when like being a writer is something that you just get to decide that you are.
01:50:16.239 --> 01:50:16.800
Yeah, 100%.
01:50:16.800 --> 01:50:17.520
Well, thank you.
01:50:17.520 --> 01:50:18.640
I mean, that's really encouraging.
01:50:18.640 --> 01:50:32.079
And I would also say to take it back to Gerard, there is a moment in this uh Schlocky documentary where he does say, and it's nice to see the guy like because he's so confident in the music videos and on stage, but he seems so something else, you know, uh off stage.
01:50:32.079 --> 01:50:41.199
I do like the moment when they're talking about his drawings, and I don't know if it's a question poised to him or what, but he says, I says, Yeah, I've been trying to get this character in this comic published for I don't know how long.
01:50:41.199 --> 01:50:44.239
I mean, I'm sure anyone would pick it up now, which is true.
01:50:44.239 --> 01:50:52.800
He's like, you know, like any, but I think what I'm inferring from that is that he's saying, like, but you know, I want to like maybe let the work speak for itself.
01:50:52.800 --> 01:50:55.359
Again, I'm inferring this, but that's what the tone felt to me.
01:50:55.359 --> 01:51:13.439
And I do like um, it seems to me, from what I've read and reading the backstory and the recording of Danger Days and everything in the aftermath of Black Parade, that he really went full throttle into writing um The Umbrella Academy, which I've as you know, the dudes won an Eisner award.
01:51:13.439 --> 01:51:17.520
He is like a decorated um comic book author and artist.
01:51:17.520 --> 01:51:20.159
Like that is that is it doesn't get much better than that.
01:51:20.159 --> 01:51:26.960
But so I don't really know for him which one maybe has more value, maybe and and I don't mean in terms of dollars or anything.
01:51:26.960 --> 01:51:45.600
I I feel like my chem is maybe like a once-in-a-lifetime kind of thing, but I do think it's really cool that it's not not a Jared Leto situation of I'm going to act in movies and try to rack up I don't know what the comparison is there, like but like both things seems very genuine, I guess.
01:51:46.000 --> 01:51:46.880
Yeah, yeah.
01:51:46.880 --> 01:51:53.760
I mean, I I think it's like it doesn't seem like a like a fuck-off thing that he's doing.
01:51:53.760 --> 01:52:20.560
It's like something that he But I also like I do think that it's like I I like when people uh embrace that they have a platform and so they're gonna do the thing that they like I'm thinking of like Tim Heideker making these albums that are they're not like without humor, but it's not he's not doing comedy.
01:52:20.560 --> 01:52:24.159
He has made multiple albums that are really great musician.
01:52:24.159 --> 01:52:28.479
Yeah, I I mean, and I really like his songs, and I think he's a really good songwriter.
01:52:28.479 --> 01:52:39.760
There is there is also no doubt that that he is go like made a decision of, okay, well, now I have an audience from this other thing.
01:52:39.760 --> 01:52:48.079
Like, may, you know, maybe he could have gotten famous from music, but it seems like he's kind of made a calculation of like that wasn't the path for me.
01:52:48.079 --> 01:52:59.119
Maybe I wasn't special enough at this particular thing to have that be how I uh got no gain notoriety, but I'm pretty good at it.
01:52:59.119 --> 01:53:01.920
And now that I have that notoriety, I want to do that too.
01:53:01.920 --> 01:53:05.439
And if you think it's cringe or whatever, like that's fine.
01:53:05.439 --> 01:53:08.479
But like I want to same thing, kind of in a way.
01:53:08.479 --> 01:53:09.279
Totally.
01:53:09.279 --> 01:53:21.439
So, like, I mean, I've said many times like my goal in comedy is to uh get enough of a comedy career that I can force a percentage of that audience to listen to me play music.
01:53:21.439 --> 01:53:22.720
For sure, yeah.
01:53:22.720 --> 01:53:34.800
That's like, but uh the thing that I've always said it that I would like be the fantasy of if I had a skill that I possess in no shape or form.
01:53:34.800 --> 01:53:44.319
So this isn't a hobby of mine, it's not an ambition of mine, it's not something I've ever tried to learn how to do, and it's not something I ever plan on doing.
01:53:44.319 --> 01:53:54.560
Um I am very close to if not living my dream, pursuing the things that I find the most creatively fill fulfilling.
01:53:54.560 --> 01:54:06.640
It's this podcast, it's stand-up comedy, it's writing uh it's writing other things that are comedy comedy adjacent, but not straight stand-up in my spare time.
01:54:06.640 --> 01:54:19.039
And, you know, I like on a good day, I look at that part of my life and I go, you know, you may not be famous for doing those these things, but you're doing these things.
01:54:19.039 --> 01:54:30.800
And that's like I don't know, that's like a lot more than a lot of people get because life is fucking hard and it our society isn't set up to reward you people wanting to be creative.
01:54:30.800 --> 01:54:36.960
I would trade it all if I could rap even just a little bit.
01:54:37.279 --> 01:54:38.399
Oh, okay, interesting.
01:54:38.640 --> 01:54:44.560
I don't think there is, I think the only reason to do stand-up comedy is because you can't rap.
01:54:44.800 --> 01:54:46.079
Okay, for sure.
01:54:46.319 --> 01:54:50.560
There's nothing cooler to be able to do on the planet than rap.
01:54:50.960 --> 01:54:56.159
I would if you told me break dancing's up there, but I think rapping's cooler, but yeah.
01:54:56.399 --> 01:54:57.039
Yeah, yeah.
01:54:57.039 --> 01:54:59.039
I see I don't I don't have a desire.
01:54:59.039 --> 01:55:06.319
I I see breakdancing and I go, that's an amazing physical feat, but I don't wish it was me up there doing that.
01:55:06.800 --> 01:55:07.279
You're right.
01:55:07.279 --> 01:55:09.920
I was misconstruing what you're saying, even though I do understand your point.
01:55:09.920 --> 01:55:16.159
I think that both things seem similarly, similarly unattainable, and not because breakdancing is at all associated with rap.
01:55:16.159 --> 01:55:25.119
Uh, but they do seem like m musculature mechanical things that are also rap specifically, also weirdly has to come from the heart for it to be good.
01:55:25.359 --> 01:55:34.319
And you also, it's not a thing, like it's like I am, and I'm not being self-deprecating here, I'm pretty good at guitar and I can sing pretty good.
01:55:34.319 --> 01:55:36.479
And because I thank you.
01:55:36.479 --> 01:55:45.039
But but what the point I'm making is is because of that, like um, you know, that like I I don't know what word to use.
01:55:45.039 --> 01:55:50.800
Uh I like I don't have some like amazing like technical chops.
01:55:50.800 --> 01:56:01.920
I know how to do what I know how to do, and my practice at it and taste level is enough that I feel that I can make a pretty good song when I sit down and put my mind to it.
01:56:01.920 --> 01:56:12.479
You can't do that with like being okay at rapping is being bad at rapping, and being bad at rapping is embarrassing as fuck.
01:56:12.479 --> 01:56:12.960
Yeah.
01:56:12.960 --> 01:56:19.680
So that's the other thing too, is there's this like bar to entry where it's like it to me, it's like being in the NBA.
01:56:19.680 --> 01:56:23.600
It's like you're either you either are that thing or you're not, right?
01:56:23.600 --> 01:56:26.880
Like you're not, there's you're not, you can't like be a hobbyist.
01:56:26.880 --> 01:56:50.159
But it's a very like, it's like the most like um uh embarrassing thing that I that I could realize about myself is that I'm like 40 years old, have never done that a d once in my life, never even like, never even like had enough of an inkling that I could do it, that I've like stuck my toe in that water.
01:56:50.159 --> 01:57:05.920
And I go, if you told me that three random people on earth were going to pass away peacefully in their sleep, and the trade-off was that I wake up and I have the skills of a Jay-Z or an Eminem or an Andre 3000, sure, I would make that deal.
01:57:05.920 --> 01:57:09.840
I'd go, Well, they were probably, you know, not that nice to begin with.
01:57:10.079 --> 01:57:10.880
Yes, absolutely.
01:57:10.880 --> 01:57:11.680
No, I love that.
01:57:11.680 --> 01:57:12.720
I love knowing that about you.
01:57:12.720 --> 01:57:14.800
It makes it makes perfect sense.
01:57:14.800 --> 01:57:20.800
Um, I mean, I could think of three people in the current cabinet that like I would gladly sacrifice for your ability to have.
01:57:21.199 --> 01:57:27.439
Oh, well, if we get to choose them, then if we can I'll I'll kill way more than three people if I get to choose who they are.
01:57:27.840 --> 01:57:28.880
Um no, I love that.
01:57:28.880 --> 01:57:32.159
I mean, thank you for for uh that that's really interesting.
01:57:32.159 --> 01:57:41.279
And and now I'm I'm like thinking about you know how my answer was a little bit of a safe bet because writing leaches out to so many different tendrils or of you know possible creation.
01:57:41.279 --> 01:57:43.680
But that's very interesting.
01:57:43.680 --> 01:57:52.399
And um it also makes me wonder, too, uh do you have to choose rapping over singing?
01:57:52.399 --> 01:57:55.279
No, there are people who do both.
01:57:55.279 --> 01:58:04.239
There are people that do both, but then it's like, oh, oh, like Eminem is singing a melody like and he's only okay at it.
01:58:04.239 --> 01:58:10.720
Um I wonder if like Andre 3000, because he's so gifted like in other instruments, like if he has an amazing singing voice.
01:58:10.720 --> 01:58:13.359
He does, and we just don't he does.
01:58:13.520 --> 01:58:22.720
There's lots of there's lots of I mean on like speakerbox and the love below, there's lots of song I mean songs that are more sung than thanks.
01:58:22.720 --> 01:58:23.039
Yeah.
01:58:23.039 --> 01:58:23.680
Yeah, you're right.
01:58:23.680 --> 01:58:24.800
I I get what you're saying.
01:58:25.119 --> 01:58:30.479
I think I think that like it's it doesn't have to be binary, is what I'm saying, but I feel like it does a little bit.
01:58:30.479 --> 01:58:34.079
I think that um because rap is not singing.
01:58:34.399 --> 01:58:39.520
I think that line is I I think there is less delineation between that now.
01:58:39.520 --> 01:58:40.000
Sure.
01:58:40.000 --> 01:58:42.880
Oh, I think I think there's more I think you're right.
01:58:42.880 --> 01:59:04.159
I think it's like like you're saying, like if you're a rapper, it's like, okay, maybe I'll sing a hook or whatever, but it's like I might not actually be like a great singer in the traditional sense, or maybe I'm even like kind of calling attention to it by like, you know, Eminem will do it, like you said, with like a voice like this, and he's like kind of making fun of his own singing.
01:59:04.159 --> 01:59:19.199
But I think now, like, it's way less uncommon to hear the same artist bouncing back and forth uh on on the same like Dochi, for example, comes to mind.
01:59:19.199 --> 01:59:38.800
She can really, really rap, but then she has songs where that are just like straight up RB tracks and she has a really good singing voice or whatever, and you know, like I it doesn't seem like it's like you have to pick one thing now, which I think is like where society is going in general, and I'm all for it.
01:59:38.800 --> 01:59:52.479
I think we're of an age, we're of like I think you and I are honestly like, unless things keep going in the direction they're going, where like social progress is like really getting rolled back right now.
01:59:52.479 --> 02:00:15.439
We seem to be, as of now, the last generation that is very, very uh attached, whether we like it or not, we're very, very attached to like roles, whether that's your gender roles, uh, where you land on like the sexuality spectrum, or whether you can sing and rap on the same album.
02:00:15.439 --> 02:00:25.439
Like it's like I I think that like millennials are much more much more attached to labels than Gen Z and Gen Alpha.
02:00:25.680 --> 02:00:28.319
I agree, and I want to be clear, and I know you weren't accusing me as such.
02:00:28.319 --> 02:00:33.439
I was just curious if like historically people maybe felt like it was, and you're actually helping me to clarify my question.
02:00:33.439 --> 02:00:35.520
So I don't mean to make it sound like this is what I was asking.
02:00:35.520 --> 02:00:44.319
Historically, maybe it felt like a I I kind of need to, but Andre 3000, I think I asked him as a question for a reason because I was calling to mind he does have a great singing voice.
02:00:44.319 --> 02:00:48.319
But I think you're right, I get to showcase that as much and that it does seem to be changing.
02:00:48.319 --> 02:00:50.720
You're right, even though I don't keep up with hip-hop as much as you do.
02:00:50.960 --> 02:00:54.560
No, but I mean, I think I think I I hadn't thought of it that way.
02:00:54.560 --> 02:01:07.359
I bet you're right, because like a lot of people who rap are uh talented musicians in other ways, and those things don't really show up on in their work as much.
02:01:07.359 --> 02:01:15.439
And I think I think it's not if it's not them making that decision, it's some suit saying, Well, what are you?
02:01:15.439 --> 02:01:16.960
Like, what are what are you?
02:01:16.960 --> 02:01:37.760
Also, too, not to like get into a whole other heavy rabbit trail, too, but it's like we're talking about we're talking about rap, we're talking about uh predominant um uh a genre of music oh predominantly represented by black entertainers, and black entertainers are especially pigeonholed as like what you gotta be one thing, right?
02:01:38.000 --> 02:01:42.640
Even though the greatest guitar player of all time was black and well, yeah, of course.
02:01:42.880 --> 02:02:16.640
I mean, even though black people invented rock and roll, like it's like but like I but again, like I think it's like we're in a we're in a world now where it's like Tyler the creator like spent three albums using homophobic slurs and rapping about like incredibly like uh rapping brutal depictions of like violence, and then now as albums where he's singing and playing piano and talking about how he's queer, and it's like the audience was completely able to like make that transition with him.
02:02:16.640 --> 02:02:34.479
So I think I think we're just in a less like now that we're not that's the best thing about not being in an MTV radio record label world as much as it's like the artists decide who they want to be and fans either fuck with it or they don't.
02:02:34.960 --> 02:02:49.119
And if I could, because I just have two quick things to go out on that was not planned to transition from what you just said, but I think that this band, My Chemical Romance, not Tyler the Creator, although who I do like, continue to stick that landing, little teaser trailer.
02:02:49.119 --> 02:02:50.479
I really like the next album.
02:02:50.479 --> 02:02:53.199
Um, and I think they continue to settle in the other sound.
02:02:53.199 --> 02:02:57.359
As much as I don't want to leave this period, we have to, and I'm sure I'll be grateful too.
02:02:57.359 --> 02:03:08.159
I do, we didn't have time for it, and even if we did, I don't know if it would have been, but we spent Walker, I'm very grateful for it, Edict Episodes listeners, if you're with us this far into this episode.
02:03:08.159 --> 02:03:15.039
Um I talked about the diminished chord for probably too long and my chemical romance's use of the diminished chord.
02:03:15.039 --> 02:03:21.039
We don't have time to talk about it today because I noticed it in an additional song um in Three Cheers, and we'll talk about that whenever the fuck.
02:03:21.039 --> 02:03:31.840
I would rather just prime the audience, whether you care about music theory or chords or any or how songs are written or anything like that from a technical standpoint, because you play music or you don't.
02:03:31.840 --> 02:03:36.159
Um, this is an earnest challenge, and if it sounds pretentious, maybe you can help me with the language.
02:03:36.159 --> 02:03:38.560
Try to identify, because this is what I'm trying to do.
02:03:38.560 --> 02:03:49.039
So if you want to do it with us, that you know, try to identify something that makes their sound unique because I guarantee you that will continue to come up with a higher degree of frequency in the next album.
02:03:49.039 --> 02:03:52.800
As much as I think the next album is an evolution of their sound and does different things.
02:03:52.800 --> 02:04:02.560
The diminished the use of a diminished chord, which, you know, is just a um is uh uh is a like chromatic passing chord.
02:04:02.560 --> 02:04:06.239
It's a chord that isn't easily identifiable and creates a lot of tension.
02:04:06.239 --> 02:04:07.920
We talked about that in Helena.
02:04:07.920 --> 02:04:17.119
Look, listen to stuff like that where it's like, I don't know what kind of, you know, and if you're a musician, I probably sound like an idiot who understands that kind of stuff.
02:04:17.119 --> 02:04:26.880
So I noticed it, um, their usage of that in it, which is very uncommon in Western music, um, in another song on three cheers, and they do more songwriting tricks.
02:04:26.880 --> 02:04:35.600
I don't even want to call them that, um, with a higher degree of frequency because I feel like they just start to break through and not in a way that's hacky.
02:04:35.600 --> 02:04:40.560
Um, so yeah, that's that's my challenge for myself and the listeners, if you want to follow along with us.
02:04:40.800 --> 02:04:42.079
I I'll follow along with that.
02:04:42.079 --> 02:04:42.479
Please.
02:04:42.479 --> 02:05:03.039
And like I I think uh Brad Osborne uh in our first season talked about how the reason Radiohead continues to resonate so much with casual music fans and like music nerds alike is because it is uh different enough and recognizable enough.
02:05:03.039 --> 02:05:03.520
Yes.
02:05:03.520 --> 02:05:10.000
And I think that's that's that that is what makes all good art, right?
02:05:10.000 --> 02:05:25.359
Even the most even the most avant-garde stuff, like you have you right, even 2001 or like a crazy David Lynch film or like or uh you know um like Sinners.
02:05:25.359 --> 02:05:34.880
Sinners, or I was gonna say though, like yeah, like taking it out of movies, like it's like something that doesn't have precedent, like sounds crazy at first, right?
02:05:34.880 --> 02:05:37.199
Like it's like we we were just talking about hip hop.
02:05:37.199 --> 02:05:49.840
It's like if you've l like there was literally a time when the whole revolution in music was people are talking over the beat rhythmically, right?
02:05:49.840 --> 02:05:51.119
And that sounds silly now.
02:05:51.119 --> 02:06:01.760
And if you listen to like the Sugar Hill gang or whatever, it sounds very quaint, but it's also like, well, if no one was doing this, it's not quaint, it's crazy and revolutionary.
02:06:01.760 --> 02:06:18.720
However, it has to have some sort of origin that is recognizable even if it's not conscious to the person, and it also can't people don't want to hear or look at the same old shit all the time.
02:06:18.720 --> 02:06:21.279
Yes, and my chemical romance has that too.
02:06:21.279 --> 02:06:24.319
We we've talked about this from the beginning of the season.
02:06:24.319 --> 02:06:38.159
On the surface, this might feel like it's like you could throw them in the same sentence as, you know, at the drive-in, fallout boy, the used, my chemical romance.
02:06:38.159 --> 02:06:47.119
And it's not to slag off all those bands, but I and and I also won't even claim that I know those other bands' music as well as My Chemical Romance.
02:06:47.119 --> 02:06:49.680
So maybe they have like hidden gems there too.
02:06:49.680 --> 02:07:03.920
But I think the reason that My Chemical Romance can still pack out a stadium, and those bands aren't necessarily doing that, is because people intuitively recognize there is something different here.
02:07:03.920 --> 02:07:14.399
There is like flourishes and additional care being put into this music that makes it not just the same old shit.
02:07:14.399 --> 02:07:16.640
So yeah, I like that.
02:07:16.640 --> 02:07:17.439
I like that challenge.
02:07:17.439 --> 02:07:20.000
I'm gonna listen to the Black Parade the same way.
02:07:20.000 --> 02:07:26.079
Which do you think we should do you think uh do you think we should do another episode and talk about the black parade?
02:07:26.079 --> 02:07:29.359
Should we I you don't think we should stop the season here?
02:07:29.600 --> 02:07:30.399
No, no, no.
02:07:30.880 --> 02:07:32.720
All right, you convinced me.
02:07:33.760 --> 02:07:37.600
Uh we're gonna switch producers for oh nope, we're getting into no no no.
02:07:38.000 --> 02:07:43.039
Yeah, we're gonna do one more episode with the current drummer that we have, mirroring the arc of the band.
02:07:43.039 --> 02:07:49.680
You guys don't know, but there is a uh a drummer going crazy behind Zach through this whole episode.
02:07:49.680 --> 02:07:55.920
But it's a it's he's playing an electronic kit in headphones, so it's you won't hear anything.
02:07:56.159 --> 02:08:06.159
Yeah, no, I mean I would just say, listeners, if you if you came to this show for facts and figures, I'm guilty of this too when when trying to bring something, go read the Wikipedia article, it's pretty accurate.
02:08:06.159 --> 02:08:13.840
If you came for, you know, people that love this band uh like you do, you know, I hope you stay with us for this extremely exciting and interesting period.
02:08:13.840 --> 02:08:14.720
That's all I got.
02:08:14.960 --> 02:08:20.640
Well, I came to have a good time with my brother talking about my chemical romance, and I I got that today, buddy.
02:08:20.800 --> 02:08:21.199
Awesome.
02:08:21.600 --> 02:08:30.399
It it's gonna, it's gonna, it is, it is the soothing balm on the fact that I cannot rap, is that I get to do this podcast with you.
02:08:30.399 --> 02:08:34.720
Um, we will see you next week before we get into the black parade.
02:08:34.720 --> 02:08:38.239
We are going to do another episode of Spideo Talk.
02:08:38.239 --> 02:08:45.119
We gotta talk about Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 2, and I I can't wait to discuss that movie with you, Zach.
02:08:45.119 --> 02:08:46.640
So pumped, so excited.
02:08:46.640 --> 02:08:49.039
But until next week, I've been Walker Glenn.
02:08:49.039 --> 02:08:50.239
I'm Zach Glenn.
02:08:50.239 --> 02:08:51.680
See you next week, listeners.
02:08:51.680 --> 02:08:52.000
Bye.
02:08:52.000 --> 02:08:55.680
Ideotalk is a Glenn Brothers production.
02:08:55.680 --> 02:09:05.039
Get in touch with us at ideotalk.podcast at gmail.com or follow us on Instagram at idiotalk.podcast.
02:09:05.039 --> 02:09:07.359
And thanks for listening to