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Speaker 1: Eagles Entertainment. Eagle and the Sky is fueled by Gatorade, the official sports drink of the Philadelphia Eagles. Give me every time you got plays, play hard, big night they held. You're listening to the Eagle Eye in the Sky podcast. Now here's your host, Fran Duffy. That's the right of the week and we're scouting San Francisco. Is the Eagle on the Sky Podcast, fueled by Gatorade continues. I'm Fran Duffy, and as always, I think we've got a great show for you here on episode number two seventy four. At the top of this week's show, we've got chalk Talk where I chat with Ben Fennel about the Eagles Week four opponent on Sunday Night Football, San Francisco, forty nine or time. We'll talk about the key concepts of Kyle Shanahan's offense, what we'll see from them against this Eagles defense, and some big matchups and stats for the game at the top of the show in chalk Talk. After that, Ben and I will go through our scouting reports segment. When this week I wanted to focus on one of the blue chip players on this forty nine Ers team, and the impact he could have in this game. That player is linebacker Fred Warner. We will talk all about him, how much of an impact he could have in this game. So we'll cover all of that and scouting report. But that is not all because at the end of today's show, I also caught up with Eagles defensive tackle Javon Hargrave to talk about his history as a player coming up from high school, college, and obviously to the NFL. Before we get there, though, a couple of things I just wanted to make sure we hit on as a quick reminder, the best way to throw us your support if you're enjoying these podcasts on a weekly basis, just do us a favor. Jump on an Apple podcast or Stitcher, leave us a rating, leave us a comment. If you leave a question, we will answer it here on the show. I know I'm going to answer a couple here at the very end, and guess what, by that point, we are tapped out. So if you've got questions about this Eagles team, about any upcoming matchup, jump on Apple podcast, leave a question, and we will answer it on the next show. So this is the time. Hit pause right now, go on, leave a comment, and we will make sure we answer it. If you've got a question, we'll answer it on the very next episode of this podcast. Also, I mentioned Eagles game plan, and before I get to my chat with Ben, I want to give a little bit of a tease to a segment that we had on this week's episode here where I caught up with Eagles defensive line coach and run game coordinator Matt Burke to talk about the Eagles defensive performance on Sunday. Here's a small bite from a segment that we call Tape Study presented by Chickies and Pets. We'll joining us this week on Tape Study presented by Chickies and Pets. Eagles defensive line coach and run game coordinator Matt Burke. Matt, welcome to the show Man. Thanks for having me free appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely, So let's go through. There were eight sacks obviously for the defense in Sunday's game against Cincinnati, and I thought we just break down a couple of them here. I thought there were a lot of interesting things to kind of talk about from a pure XS and O standpoint. I want to jump right in here. We're gonna go to Derek Barnett sack in the second quarter. We talk all week last week on Eagles game plan all about the Cincinnati Bengals and those empty sets, and I couldn't wait to see what your guys game plan was for that, and we kind of get a sense of that here in the first half. Yeah, for sure. I mean there was an extensive part of what they do, and I think bar was really good at kind of having a clear picture of reading the field and kind of getting opened up like that. So we knew our just general game plan with the empty stuff was to kind of give him different looks, like we felt that they were going to empty, to make him more comfortable, let them see everything everything declares quickly, so we had a lot of different checks and sort of pitches to just try to keep them off balance because they did a really good job with their whole empty game plan. So this was one of the looks that we got into where we walked both those linebackers up and those a gaps just to try to force some things and try to feel how they were going to handle that look. Obviously, you know, we're showing a sort of six man pressure, if you will, with the four down and the two linebackers, So we're gonna go now into overtime. And this was one of my favorite sacks of the game here, coach, because to me, there were so many different elements that made this play work. And you know, you guys in man coverage on this play, and one of my favorite terms that fans love to hear about the green dog blitz, where a guy from the second or third level in man coverage is able to kind of read what's happening and insert himself into the pressure. Just kind of take us through what we're gonna see here on this play. Yeah, sure, you know, and obviously you guys saw from the game where you know, Jay Mills had obviously a couple of sacks or a second a half and some pressures and some hits, so that was a big element of what they were doing. You know, we're having some production in the in the past game obviously up front, so it becomes a game where they start bringing extra blockers into the front here, so the tight end comes over and as you play it on here, so let's play action, and essentially what they're trying to get here is you can see there's essentially a double on the league double on BG, double on Fletch, and really that back has the option to chip out on Derek, so it could end up being a double on Derek with the tackle on the back. So they're trying to get four hands on each of our guys up front and to you know, slow that down. And then obviously, you know a lot of times these plaction plays are deeper shots, so you know, buy some time for that quarterback to set up and stretch those routes down the field. So Jalen's covering that tight end there, so you're green dog maybe more appropriate for the green Goblin, but you know he sees as soon as that tight end makes contact with BG right there, he adds into the rush. So he puts himself in as in a rusher, saying, hey, guy that I'm covering is blocking. Let me kind of bring that in there. So as you see, the receiver feels him coming and ends up coming off BG. So now again BG ends up with the one on one whereas they're trying to get double teams on every guy here. Because of Jalen's aggressiveness to get into the rush, it frees BG up to get a one on one and is able to beat the tight end again here in protection. To me, it's just one of those things where like everyone sees the final outcome, but if it weren't for Jalen Mills ability to kind of insert himself and now BG understanding head, now I've got this one on one, I've got to win whenever I've got that opportunity. It just kind of cool to see all those distant elements come together here on this play. Certainly, and honestly, even all the other three guys. I mean, that's dirty work, you know they're doing in terms of squeezing the pocket and fighting those double team teams and just sort of making there's no open step up lanes and stuff. So yeah, it was a nice team sack there. Obviously BG deserves a lot of credit, but got some help from the rest of the crew. It was a fun conversation there with Matt Burke. We broke down a lot of stuff. It was a trio of plays three sacks from this game, including a couple of sacks that just have a ton of layers to them. So from that entire segment, make sure you go check out this week's version of Eagles Game Plan, which will be up on Philadelphi Eagles dot Com and the Eagles Mobile app on Friday, or if you're local to the Philadelphia area, you can always check it out Sunday morning at ten am on NBC ten Philadelphia. All right, talking about Eagles game Plan again, Let's bring in the guy who is so important to the production of that show each and every week. That is Ben Fennel. It's diving to our chat now in chalk Talk. Let's get down the business. It's time for chalk Talk. Well back again for another segment of chalk Talk here on the Eagle Line of Sky podcast fueled by Gatorade, my friend Ben Fennel. Ben, Look, we'll jump right in. Man. We did a lot of work this week getting ready for Eagles Game Plan, which will air later this week on Philadelphi Eagles dot Com. If you're listening to this, it should be up on Friday, Riam, late morning, midday something and something like that, and if you live in the Philadelphia region, it will air on Sunday morning, ten am on NBC ten. Just getting ready for the show, Ben, You know, we had a lot of talks about, Hey, what are the topics with the forty nine ers, what are the things we wanted to cover, and you know, defensively, we wanted to talk about linebacker Fred Warner. I don't think we need to jump in too far on him right now, because in our next segment on scouting Report, I know we're gonna talk a lot about Fred Warner, you know, nuts and bolts of it. We both love him, one of the best linebackers in the league, certainly a lot of fun to study. So I don't want to spend too much time here because I know we're gonna talk about him in the next segment. But on the other side, plenty to discuss with this forty nine Ers team. You know, you look at this Kyle Shanahan offense and what their identity is, what their staples are. We know, you know what he can bring to the table, all the different backfield actions, living in base personnel. We talk about this a little bit with Greg Kosel the other day. And then you know, also Kyle Uscheck, one of your favorite players in the NFL, and obviously George Kittle, And I think, you know, we all know what George Kittle brings. But I think when you have a guy like Kyle us Check, who we didn't really talk too much about the other night here on the show, and I feel like you and I can have a really good discussion about him, what that does for an offense and how that can really help to provide some information to the quarterback before the snap when you have a versatile fullback like a Kyle us Check on the field. Yeah, absolutely. You know, both us Check and George Kittle fall into my two way disguise category of player because when they're on the field, they aren't giving away offensive intent. They're dominant run players, they're dominant in the pass game. They're tough, and they're versatile, which makes it very tough for defenses to understand how they're trying to be attacked on a down to down basis. So if the Niners can constantly come out in twenty one personnel, which they leave the NFL in, and that means it could be a running back use Check or maybe two running backs back there, and then that one tight end just becomes very tough to match up because you can run so many different offensive schemes out of that, and having versatile players like use Check like George Kittle really is the motor oil for that offense and they may not always be producing in the stat sheet, but I promise you it's their ability to be two way players that it lets that offense tick. Yeah, it's a great point. And not only that too, but you know, you look at it, you talk about it from a defensive standpoint, as you mentioned, you know, look defenses at offenses as well. They're all working on tendencies. You know, people talk about analytics and football. Analytics have been president football since the ever since. They will be able to put it on film because you know, you start putting together cutoffs and you start working on tendencies. Hey, when it's this down and distance and they come out in this personnel group and line up in this formation, they tend to go with this kind of concept or this kind of play, or it's a not just it's a run or a pass, but it might be a high low concept in the middle field. It might be a screen, it might this, it might be that when you have a guy like a Kyle used Check, when you have a guy like a George Kittle, that's where that versatility and as you mentioned, you called them the two way disguised players. When you have those that kind of versatile chess piece on an offense. You can line up George Kittle in line with Kyle Uscheck in the backfield, you know, and you will say a twenty one personnel set, and you might be running ISO lead. You might be running you know, two back power. You might also be running a three level stretch. You might be running Kyle us Check free down the scene with George Kittle in the flat, or vice versa. You could be running a number of different things. And that's not to mention, you know, oh now we got twenty one personnel and oh yeah, now we're going empty and we're doing all different things there, like you know, with how they move, but you know, it just it creates a really sense of a sense of insecurity for the defense because usually those guys are just kind of going through the role of decks. They're like, all right, down a distance, I know what the situation is. I see the personnel grouping. Okay, now I'm already thinking, I'm already processing what could be coming when they line up a certain way. There's a long laundry list of things that they could be doing out of those sets. And that's why you have a guy like us Check, a guy like Kittle, and it really kind of makes the entire offense go. And there's a couple of coaches grouped into this coaching tree philosophy. Now you have Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, Matt Laflour now in Green Bay. But spending this back to you, Fran, what is this your elevator speech difference on Kyle Shanahan's offense and Sean mcvay's offense, because essentially they're cut from the same cloth, but they operate just a little bit differently with their personnel and some of those tendencies. Yeah, and it's something that we talked about a little bit with the Rams back in Week two. Historically, you know, obviously it's a short sample size, but you know, Sean McVay when he's been the head coach, they have been heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy eleven personnel, Like you know when they went to the Super Bowl was I mean it was like over ninety eleven personnel, right, they lived in three receiver sets. Now we are starting to see them come back a little bit. You're starting to see them do a little bit more twelfth personnel. They're playing with Higbee and Everett on the field at the same time. But when then when you look at Kyle Shanahan, he does a lot with twenty one, With twelve twenty two, they have the two for all the things that we were just talking about, and not only that. You know there's again there's not one right way. With McVeagh, the thought is I want more speed on the field. With Shanahan, it's more I want you to see you want to be in subpackage. Defensively, I want to keep you in base, So I'm going to put my base personnel players out there. You're gonna have two backs, two tight ends. You know we're gonna I'm gonna mix and match. But now I'm gonna try and take advantage of linebackers in space. I'm going to try and make those guys wrong and make you guys defend more areas of the field. So that's, I guess, is the key philosophy. But you see the backfield actions the screen game, all that suff A lot of it is the same, and they're they're cut from the same cloth from that standpoint, But to me, that's the biggest difference. I don't know if you had something else in mind as well. Yeah, I think Shanahan is an interesting hybrid. And I know this is going to sound like a huge statement because I'm gonna choose two very impactful coaches, But he's a little bit of a high bred of Sean McVay and Andy Reid because Andy Reid is so multiple, and I think that's where Shanahan has differentiated himself from McVeagh that like to come out in the same personnel, the same look, the same initial action, and just having that foundation. The Niners did that initially when Shanahan first got there, but it becomes so much more multiple, so much more diverse with the personnel groupings literally doubling the amount of power and gap runs from year one to year two with Kyle Shanahan much more of a diverse and interesting run game that it's starting to mirror the Chiefs offense and the way they attack on a week to week basis, and the versatile players and some of the interesting offensive designs. I think it's kind of an interesting mix of the two. Obviously, that's a great combo Sean McVay, Andy Reid, a little bit of both. That sounds pretty good, but it's just a very interesting mix on how he designs that offense and see I remember when the Eagles were playing the forty nine Ers. I mean, I think it was his first year, coy Shanna, his first year in San Francisco. Uh, you know, we were doing an Eagle at column. You were and we were watching film. We're breaking down that offense, and I mean you went back to his day as his offensive coordinator in Houston, in Atlanta, in Cleveland, in Washington, and we saw the same staple concepts, like they ran the same There was like four or five different plays. We saw, you know, the the tight end throwback, We saw the post cross off play action. We saw you know, a lot of those same plays over and over and over again. I still think you still see them in the in that modern U in this current state of this offense. But to your point, I think there's a lot more multiplicity there and you're seeing a lot more creativity with the backfield actions where guys are lined up. Certainly with what they've done with Deebo Samuel last year, with Brandon I Yuk over the last couple of weeks with these receivers as runners. Um, it's you know, it's a whole lot of window dressing and just getting the ball into their playmaker's hands and allowing them to pick up first down to move the football. Yeah, I think You's Check and Kittle really do kind of mirror Travis Kelsey and Anthony Sherman in Kansas City more than anybody else in the league now. I think Kelsey's a little more pass game upside, Sherman's more of a through and through fullback. You Check much more versatile, and obviously George Kittle a great in line tight end there. But how they use those players in Kansas City is very similar to what we're seeing in San Francisco. So I want to try something a little bit new this week before we get into like our matchups and big stats and stuff. I almost want to like just empty my notebook on like little buzz items, and you'd like literally like interrupt me, stop me if there's something that you feel is like that we should like expand on. You know, at quarterback we talked about Garoppolo and Nick Mullins the other day with Greg. I don't think we need to dive too deep into their running back. I feel the same way. I mean, we know the kind of talents they've got there. I know, you know there's been pieces I want to say. Albert Brier talked with I forget it was a former Shanahan quarterback, and one of the quotes that's always stuck with me. Every single running back that they acquire when with Kyle Shanahan has to impact as a pass catcher. And again that goes back to what we said about you check and with Kittle, with all these positions, you don't know if it's gonna be a run or a pass as this guy because those versatile skill sets. And again with the receivers they've acquired, these are all guys that you know, Brandon I Yu Can Deebo, Samuel Hey, we can give them the ball as runners and obviously we can impact, you know, use them in the passing game as well. All that's it's it's all with that same idea. To me, the blueship players on offense try obviously, George Kittle, Trent Williams at left tackle has been I mean, he's I wonder what he was gonna look like after the year off and you know he just hadn't play a lot. He looks outstanding on the on the left side. So um to me, like those are the blueship players. Brand spending this to the skill players out there and who you're game planning for in a week to week basis. They've the Niners have had as many injuries as anybody in the NFL. Deebo I think is coming off? Irman just went to ir Kittle has been out for two weeks. But just give me a yes or no? Are these guys starting on anybody's fantasy team last week? These are the no, no, The biggest plays for the Niners last week against the gi It's Kendrick Bourne starting anywhere. No, not defense, Jeffrey Wilson, No, Brandon Iyuk got you know, second game? Yeah, probably yeah, rosst Welly twenty yard game. No, Trent Taylor twenty yard game. No Jeric McKinnon twenty six yard game, the only downfield completion of the season. Some people might have been but no. But you get what I'm saying about this Niners offense. It's like a next guy up. It doesn't matter who you are. It's tough to game plan for these guys because it's so versatile, it's so multiple, and it's so interchangeable. I don't know if anybody on the Niners would ever start for somebody's fantasy team even going to a Tevin Coleman or even when Debo gets healthy. Obviously George Kittle deserves it. But it's just really interesting the fact they've had injuries and then all these guys get a step up and start making plays in the offense. Yeah, and they've just been they've been very, very creative. You talk about the injuries, you know, guys that have been banged up in and out of the lineup. They've been an eleven personnel thirty five percent of the time, thirty six percent of the time so far the season. I mean, that's a crazy low number. And you talk about twenty one, well twenty two. They're mixing up personnel usage, and they're they're just finding ways to be able to like no kiddll no Deebo Samuel, no problem. We'll scheme open guys. It's like Matt la Floor last week, No DeVante Adams. It's okay, let's run our offense. Next guy up, and we'll scheme some guys open, you know, through our offensive design. Yeah, no question. And then you go to the defensive side, and in this group, they've lost a lot of players too. You lose Nick Bosa, you lose Solomon Thomas, who you know, isn't the level of Nick Bosa. Certainly you'd lose a Richard Charman and what he means not just on the field but off the field. And you had a bunch of guys that were banged up that whole second there. I think they're the top three corners were out of this. In this past game against the Giants, Mosley got hurt mid game. A Kella Witherspoon was out going into the game. So you know their top three outside corners are gone. Can I just say real quick, one thing like Jason Varette playing and getting his first action. I don't know if you've got the numbers in front of you in terms of like how many snaps he's played over the course of his career. You and I both loved him coming out of TCU, A lot of people did. He was a first round pick for the Chargers. Injury roiled career. I was kind of interested, like, all right, he's gonna hit, he has to play a lot, you know, with this injury. How is he gonna look? He looked so good. He looked really really good, And that's to me, like that's one of the sort of the best stories in football right now, and it's been one game he's played. What did he played, like sixty snaps the other day, forty snaps the other day. But he looked awesome. That's he's been great. And he was injured as a rookie, then that big Pro Bowl year as a sophomore, then injured, injured, injured into as a nineteen he played forty five snaps and his return to action, literally played sixty seven snaps in three years dealing with all those injuries. But when he's healthy and on the field, it so literally one of the best cornerbacks in the NFL. We just have no idea what the type of player we're getting after this multitude of injuries. But what he put on tape on Sunday really impressive. He looked like he's back to form. Kalan Williams is the nickel corner. He's a nice player. Vrett really really impressive though on the outside now, Emmanuel Moseley, he did leave the game this past week. I have not seen what his status is. I think they were waiting to see we're recording this Wednesday midday. I believe they're waiting for Wednesday's practice to finish before really giving an extra report, so something to kind of follow. They brought back Deonte Johnson was a former forty nine er draft pick. He got the majority of the snaps opposite Varette up and down game for sure, you know, in his return to the field to that forty nine ers defense. I talked with Greg the other day, you know about just a transition. Robert sala is the defensive coordinator. Primarily, you know, Cover three comes from Pete Carroll all. That's what they had been heavy change to more quarters look, and Greg and I talked about this. I'm interested to kind of get your thoughts. Why do you think that we're starting to see a little bit more quarters around the league? And then we'll talk a little bit about the strengths and weaknesses of quarters coverage and kind of draw it up a little bit for our listeners. You know, it's a really good question because we've been seeing it more, particularly out of some of the traditional single high team Seattle, Atlanta and really being tendency breakers. I'm not sure if maybe they're trying to have more safety involvement in the run. It also provides less communication and pass off assignments when you're in that quarters coverage. How you're playing that four deep cover four. You know, it's an interesting conversation. I think there's probably different reasons for different strokes for different folks on a week to week basis, But just kind of explaining the cover four that means you have four deep, deep players protecting each a quarter. But the interesting thing is the depth of those players. They're not way back like a Cover three or a Cover two. Typically those middle safeties are sitting at about ten to twelve yards because they have run keys or run responsibilities, so they have to get nosy and keep their eyes in the backfield looking to fill the run downhill. So we see a lot of attacking those safeties being a little more shallow, especially off of play action where you could get them to take a step or two up for those run reads and then try to hit something over the top. We've seen countless, countless attacks on that coverage over the years, particularly on early downs trying to get them in run looks and then going down the field. But yeah, it's kind of interesting we've been seeing to start the season. Your friend, Yeah, and I think it's it's also interesting, you know, you talk about different ways to be able to attack quarters. Greg made the point the other night that you know, you're starting to see these quarters that the teams that are playing with with heavy quarters, that the cornerbacks on the outside are playing with more man discipline, with more than man technique and more man responsibility. So the safeties are still playing with, as you know, a Cover four safeties, but you're seeing a little bit more man on the outside. And the reason why that's important, you know, you look at the big plays that have been given up against Cover four over the course, you know they're really I don't know, as a lot long as you and I've been watching film together, Uh, A lot of it has to do not just with the run fakes, but you know what offenses do with the number two receiver because you know, as as is the case with every zone coverage concept, there are rules for all these guys. And so if you are a safety in playing quarters, playing cover four, if the number two receiver, if the slot receiver, if he attacks it a certain depth, it turns into a man and man coverage basically. So I believe, Ben Craig if I'm wrong, I believe if it's like somewhere between like eight to ten yards if that receiver looks like he's working vertically, if you're not playing that middle part of the field anymore, you are now essentially playing man to man against that slot receiver. So if you run a let's say a vertical route like a deep post route from your outside receiver, your corner is going to play him with outside leverage, funnel him to his safety help. But if that safety is now being taken away by a vertical route quote unquote from the number two receiver, well now there's no help in the middle of the field. And now you've got a safety or you've got a post route running wide open for a touchdown. The corner's got his arms up saying, where's my safety. The safety's looking at the corner like, yeah, I've got my man. How come you don't have your man? You know? The I guess the thought is with the man coverage concept only outside and the quarter safety still playing quarters, that kind of eliminates the threat of those kind of miscommunications on the back end. Yeah, and I'm having so many ideas and thoughts. I don't want to get too far in the weeds here. I think the quarters is also a counter to all the three by one sets around the NFL, and just telling that one X receiver in your corner the press man lock that player and then allowing that other safety to key the number three from the backside allows you to still double number two. And quarters coverage essentially is a zone match. After two and a half seconds, it turns into man coverage, so it allows them to still clamp on late in the down, have kind of man to man principles and still kind of being a you know, shaded to the strength of the offensive formation. A lot of these three by one sets that we're seeing around the NFL, if you want to play a cover two or even a cover three to three by one, you're kind of putting too many bodies where there's not enough offensive bodies. And I think quarters just allows you to key the three by one a little bit more. I don't want to get too far in the weeds here with coverage principles here, but I'm just trying to make sense of why we're seeing it more. No, it's a that's a very very good point, you know, just thanks schematically here with San Francisco. The other thing I think a lot of people think of, you know, the peak Caroltree Oh, it's it's not a lot of blitzing. It's the four man rush. Especially if you think with this the defensive line, Oh, they you know, they don't need to do a ton They just they just let those four guys get after it. No third down they are. They're gonna line up in a lot of different fronts, a lot of different looks. They're gonna come at you from different angles. They're sending linebackers, they're sending nickel corners, they're sending safeties. Um, you know, they have lined up in these five over five looks, they line up in tilted fronts. They run a lot of different stunts as well with the you know, with guys, even if you know you have a nick posts in there, you think, oh, yeah, he's okay running one on one. No, like they're gonna loop him inside, They're gonna use him as a picker. They're gonna do all kinds of things with these guys. So it's gonna be a big assignment game for this Eagles offensive line as well. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. So let's get to um some of the matchups we like in this game. And for me, one one on one matchup that I think is gonna be really fascinating to be able to watch. Uh is going to be Fletcher Cox, who obviously had a huge game. This whole Eagles defensive line just had a huge game against the Cincinnati Bengals. Going up against the right guard Daniel Brunskill. Now this is a matchup one on one. You know, if it's the third and eight, you like that matchup for Fletcher Cox. The thing that the Eagles have to avoid is what happened in Week two against LA and we talked about the kind of the similarities there between you know, Sean McVay offense and Kyle Shanahan offense. If San Francisco is able to stay ahead of the sticks, they're able to stay on schedule, and they're having success on first and second down, and it's third and two and you've got the jet action, you've got the play action, you've got all those different factors. That's gonna negate that pass rush that's gonna slow up Fletcher Cox a little bit. So it'll be up to the Eagles defense to try and keep San Francisco behind the sticks a little bit in this game. And now you can have some of those matchups win for you, especially on that interior three where you've got brunt Skill at right guard, Ben Garland is in a center, and then you've got Lake and Thomlinson at left guard. I feel like those are the matchups you can really kind of try and see if you can take advantage of in this matchup, and listen, Brunskill is really athletic pron offensive lineman, played the right tackle position for nearly half the season for the forty nine years last year on the way to the Super Bowl, filling in from Mike McGlinchey. But this is not a good matchup for Brunskill. Brunskills a little light in the pants to play guard. It's about two eighty or so, came into league at about two seventy five to sixty or so, so he's a little light in the pants. A little bit like the what we saw Fletch due to Billy Turner late in the game against the Bengals, I could see a little bit more of that. So the Niners know that they're gonna make sure Brunskill has help. They're gonna make sure they keep Fletcher Cox on the move, trying to keep him going laterally rather than go flying up the field. Really blowing up a lot of that action in the backfield. No, that's a really good point. Is there a matchup that you will have your eyes onto this matchup? I'm gonna go with an interesting one here because I'm gonna kind of go with Kyle Shanahan against our linebacking corps. I'm expecting to see a lot of t J. Edwards, a lot of Nate Gary. So what I wrote down in my notes are Edwards and Gary verse backfield action. And this is a Niners team that leads the NFL and shifts in motions not only before the snap, but into the snap. There's a lot of moving parts as the quarterback is taking that exchange from center, and there's a lot of eye candy, a lot of moving parts, whether it's jet motions, orbit motions, return motions, which are when a player starts one direction and then counters back to where it came from, like we saw Kyle Uschek to last week leading the way on a really cool end around a Brandon Aiyuk. So there's a lot going on in the backfield. You have to have your keys down, you have to know what your reads are and not get caught up with all that eye candy because he throws a lot of it back there. And it doesn't matter who's at quarterback, this is the foundation, or even at receiver or at running back. This is the foundation of their offense. And it's a lot of smoking mirrors and maybe it's not as much substance as most teams in the NFL, but it can really put guys out a position. This is to me, that is the big key of the game. Honestly, you know you talked about like the matter. I know I talked about flexer, Cox and Bronsko, but this is one of the pivotal matchups in this game. And I'm really glad that you brought that up because it is absolutely going to be important. And I'm thinking they're going to keep us into that base defense like they do often with that twenty one personnel that they lead the NFL in with us check. That means I think we're gonna see a little more t J. Edwards and I'm excited for that prospect because he's a very instinctual player, is very good intelligence football IQ typically knows how he's being attacked, plays a good physicality, a little bit limited as an athlete, but I love what he has between the ears. So I'm really excited to see t J. Edwards out there on a down to down basis, And it'll be a little different than what the Rams would do. Similar type of offensive style with those jet motions and eye candies, but less twenty one personnel. So that'll keep us out of that sub package and more into that heavier defensive package. So let's talk bring it back to Eagles game plan a little bit. Is there something that you wish we had gotten into the show this week that's gonna be pivotal to this matchup that you know, obviously we weren't able to sneak into you know, the first or second block the show. Yeah, actually, and I think it was a long game. It was a tie. There are a lot of plays to watch. There are a lot of narratives and tones of the game. Obviously when you have a tie going, you know, a whole extra quarter. But what the Eagles did at the end of the first half and then the end of the fourth quarter, those ended drive halfs generating touchdowns were enormous and maybe the most productive efficient offenses the Eagles have put up in twenty twenty. On both those drives and there's a lot of cat and mouse philosophies on how do you play defensively in those situations, But when you gotta have it in those two minute drills at the end of the half, end of the game, I thought that was just a huge kind of confidence booster for the Eagles, And I think you have to look at those two drives moving forward as that confidence in that fuel that hey, we can move the ball and click while we're playing in rhythm, playing fast. I think there's some things that kind of pick and choose from for what they did. And to your point, you know, Doug Peterson talked earlier this week about the possibly using tempo a little bit more, so maybe that is something that we will see. It's a very good point on your part. To me, it was one of the things I brought up earlier, and that was the just the forty nine ers pressure scheme. That was something that we had gone back and forth about all that we use one of these third down blitzes. We ended up settling in on Fred Warner. But uh, you know, looking at all they do from a pressure standpoint, Uh, it's gonna be really really important. The Eagles have struggled in protection. You know, for the most part of these first three games, um, they have not held up well enough to keep Carson Wentz up right. That's gonna be a big, big part of this game. You know, I mentioned it. It's gonna be huge for the Eagles defense to keep San Francisco behind the sticks. The Eagles offense needs to be in as many third and two, third and threes, third and fours as possible in this matchup. If you're getting a third and ten, third and eleven, they're they're bringing something and you don't know where it's coming from. You don't know if it's the right, the left, inside, outside, if it's a different second level defender, third level defender, if it's a stunt. They got to be ready for the entire gamut of pressures from the San Francisco defense. The other guy too, that we didn't really talk about. We haven't talked about him yet. What if you thought of watch up on kind law Man. He's been impressive on film. He sure looks that part in ninety nine. It really looks like the Forest Buckner just wearing that number and playing a similar role. He's long, he's strong, he's heavy handed, really fun player. Will flash at times. I think he's still kind of finding his timing down and how he's being attacked, and you know, when to shoot up field and when to hand fight or when to kind of anchor down and just kind of assessing NFL run schemes on a down to down basis. He looks a little lost at times, but he has some really impressive tools that he could turn it on and the drop of a dime and make a splash play or disrupted a run action or blow up a running scheme. He's flashed that certainly on a quarter to quarter basis. Not really a full time player just yet, yep. But with some of the injuries they have, I'm sure they're expecting him to kind of kick up and ramp up that play count. Yeah, they've certainly had to lean on him a little bit more over the last couple of weeks with the injuries had On the defensive line, he's just consistent knock back. He's a handful of block I mean, he's there's people that bothered me on this d line, like Carrie Hider. This guy does not look like he should be a productive NFL player. He's like a two hundred and eighty five pound defensive end. Where's those long sleeves? His jersey looks terrible on him. This guy just wakes up in the morning hunting quarterbacks. He doesn't look like he's gonna be a good productive player, but he just keeps getting jobs around the NFL, whether it's Detroit, Dallas, now in San Francisco, and he's productive every time he's out there. It's a really fun player to watch. It's a crafty player, high motor, He's always chasing the football. No, he is one of my favorite like kind of role players to study in the league. Let's get to u some numbers here, bandy. I always ask you for your favorite stat or two of the week. What do you got for us here against San Francisco. Yeah, I'm gonna rightful off a couple here. So we already mentioned the twenty one personnel leading the NFL at over forty percent, not just to Kyle Uscheck, but also the two back pony stuff you're gonna see. Maybe you know Jeff Wilson and McKinnon out there together Raheem Mostard and Jeff Wilson and some of those pony sets. The other thing we mentioned in the shifts and motions over seventy five percent of the offensive plays including a shift or emotion. That's over three forts. Really really impressive, very balanced offense shotgun under center of fifty five point nine percent shotgun, so kind of flirting at that fifty fifty ratio makes it really tough to kind of figure out what they're doing. That means they could still work into play action boots and in certain schemes from I wonder how that. I wonder how that changed with the change of quarterback with when Garoppolo was heard, if they went by I didn't look at what the ratio was with Mullins this week. I wonder if, yeah, that's a good point on a weekn be basis, and if maybe one of the quarterbacks feels more comfortable with one of those schemes. The interesting thing as well, fram this is the best offense on third and long that six or more yards are converting forty seven percent of the time. That's number one in the NFL. The other interesting thing is they've only completed one pass downfield all year, so this isn't a team attacking over the top. Yet when they get into those third and medium long situations, they feel comfortable converting. And I just think it's kind of an interesting philosophical kind of meeting of the minds here, the fact that they don't push the ball down the field yet can generate some chunk plays when they need to. And I think that's just really speaking to the offensive design and what Shanahan does when he needs that kind of seven to fifteen yard chunk play. And I think that, you know, going back to the comparison between what the Eagles are going to see here this week and Week four to what they saw in Week two, do you think of that game defensively, it wasn't like it was bombs away, like balls going over corners heads. I mean, you had the twenty eight yard or to Higbee on the throwback, but outside of that, it was golf rolling out of the pocket and hitting Robert Woods for eleven or you know, Cooper Cup for seventeen or this guy for a catch and run for twenty eight. You know, there weren't a lot of you know, deep balls going down the field. And I think that's the case in the San Francisco offense as well. And now with that being said, though, don't come checking the receipts after the game, though, I know they want to get Brandon I Youth down the field, and as he gets involved more and more in the offense, he's likely going to be that shot play guy. So you could tell last week of the Giants involving him in the run game and the pass game. Was really one of the feature players in the offense last week against the Giants. So if he does get behind the Eagles defense this week, I know it's in their plans at some point for him to be that vertical threat. That's a very good point. And that one downfield catch was actually Jerick McKinnon lined up in the slot and ran a corner route. So you never know who's gonna go deep. And don't sleep on Kyle us Check going deep either no out of the backfield too or running down the scene we've seen running sail routes. I mean, you know he's gonna do all of that from the backfield, all right, Ben, So we'll put this matchup to bed. Last thing before we wrap up this segment around the league. Anything else from from studying teams from around the NFL that you want to kind of empty the notebook on. Yeah, three things really fast. It's gonna have a little three pack each week. Number One, dominant, dominant run defense. We know that Tampa Bay Buccaneers, they're the best run defense last year. They're picking right up where they left off this year. Vita Vea, Sue Shack, Barrett, really fun group JPP. But the Pittsburgh Steelers what they're doing on a defensive line nasty, nasty group, Bud Dupree, TJ Watt, Stephen Tua, Cam Hayward, the resurgence of Tyson Alla Wallo, Devin Bush, nasty front seven. Both of those teams are way out in front with run defense. Number two, how about Jeremy chen for the Carolina Panthers, number sixty four overall pick in the second round and absolute steel playing tons of snaps. One of the more productive players in the NFL, not just rookies but in general and playing a variety of positions on the line of scrimmage, linebacker, safety, tons of tackles. I think he's so much closer to an Isaiah Simmons level of prospect than a lot of us thought. And the third, how about the Green Bay Packers in the run game second in the NFL and rushing yards per game, taking that pressure off of Aaron Rodgers, keeping him playing in structure. And I think that's a really scary proposition. The Packers with a dominant run game and Aaron Rodgers and some guys on defense to get after the past. They're really dangerous formula they got brewing up in Green Bay. Yeah, that note about Pittsburgh. We'll be talking a lot about them next week right here on the show. Obviously, the Eagles playing Pittsburgh Steelers in week number five. We'll see. The news came out this morning that the Tennessee Titans of Pittsburgh Steelers game was postponed. No word yet, there has been some reports that it could be Monday, maybe even Tuesday. So we'll see what happens with the Pittsburgh Steelers here in week four. Ben, let's get to our next facum here, it's time. Now let's talk about some Fred Warner in scouting report. Damn those lights. We're headed to the film room for this scouting report, all right, Ben, So let's talk about a player that you and I were both high on coming out of BYU, and that's linebacker Fred Warner. He was I believe a top thirty player for me coming out of college in twenty eighteen. I loved his film. In fact, I believe I went back. I looked the other day because we were talking about him. I had Dallas Goddard a few slots ahead of him. I had Dallas godd is a top twenty five player in that class. Warrener went a few I think he went like fifteen or so picks after Dallas Goddard did so. I thought both both teams got really good steals in the area that they were able to get him. Warner was just one of my favorite players man, and real quick. I kind of buzzed through some of my notes on him, and I want to get your thoughts on him as well. Three year starter, but the last two years of his career was spent as an outside linebacker in a three to four, and he would line up off the edge, but he would also line up to in the slot. He'd be stacked in their Nickels set, so he was. He lined up all over the field and at times, just the way he moved, he looked like a big safety, you know. I mean, this was a great athlete, fluid, explosive, He covered a ton of ground in a hurry, extremely comfortable, in space. He could close and you know, make plays in the open field. It was really really impressive from an instinct standpoint, read things pretty quickly, you know, from the slot, especially in terms of pass did not back down from contact though. He was very aggressive in the run game. Not a true stack and shed player, but he would keep his hands tight, he'd shock a blocker and bounce off and find the football. He was an explosive, violent tackler. We still see that on tape here with the forty nine ers and a really experienced underneath zone defender. He could drop to his landmark with ease, get his eyes back to the quarterback. We used in man coverage against slot receivers and did not have any issue with running backs or tight ends, and I didn't think that would be an issue for him in the NFL. Hand eye coordination to finish at the catchpoint was really productive throughout the course of his career, not just in the run game with TFLs, but to a bunch of plays in coverage, a bunch of pass breakups. Two of his seven interceptions went back to the house for touchdowns. My concerns a little bit on the smaller side, you know, not a really small but a little bit on the smaller side. Wondered how could he get overwhelmed by bigger blockers in the NFL. Would he be able to add weight and get a little bigger to be a true three down player? And I thought it would be a little bit of a projection to see him as a pure three down player right away, just because he was used in so many different ways overall. My final statement on him though, at his floor, I thought that he would be a dynamite special teamer, but I thought he was much more than that. Elite athlete with the kind of physicality that I look for at the linebacker position. He must prove that he could transition into a true stacked role to be worthy of drafting high. But he was an NFL player physically, a three down NFL starter with high upside as a WILL or a SAM. He's reached that upside. Ben as we talked about with Greg earlier this week, he is one of the top two or three linebackers in the NFL in my opinion. Yeah, absolutely, he's a really fun player to watch coming at a BIU in that really deep linebacking year in two eighteen. But you know, just to echo everything you were saying there. Yes, size, speed, awareness, really good matchup coverage player, the zone instincts, good tackler not only in space but in a phone booth between the tackles. The number one treat I had written down highlighted underlying bulded was the ability to beat blocks with his hands. Ye, that's against tight ends, pulling guards, tackles, fevers. He had long arms, he shoots them, tight will stack in shed and I love that ability. You have to be able to fight for yourself. In the NFL, we see so many linebackers in college with free access, free lanes to ball carriers, and then they blow up the ball carry in the backfield and flex on everybody. Those players do nothing for me, frand you're going to get guards up on you in the box. You have to be able to fight for yourself, create that space, get off of blocks, and still be a player to drag down that ball carrier. So echoing everything you've said about him, some of the issues high pad level. At times, sometimes he would take tackle tackles a little high, a bit of an arm tackler. Some I violations and again just kind of question that balance of overall athleticism versus overall play strength. He was two thirty five, but didn't look like he really had that core bulk, more of a lower body strength guy, long arms that I just worry he might not have that strength in the core and upstairs there. But just turning this back to that two as an eighteen group friend and put you on the spot here, if we had to do a redraft, not a full draft, but a redraft of the linebackers between you know, uh, Tremaine Edmonds, vander Esh for Sean Evans, Darius Leonard, Roquan Smith. Where does Fred Warner fit into the pecking order back? I think I'm taking him tops of that group, but it would be I think it would be if I had to go in order, I think I would go Warner, Darius Leonard. Maybe. I guess I'd probably Tremaine Edmonds after that, and then Layton, then Layton vander Layton Vanderesh after that. Just because of the injury. I think that's the injuries have been tough to evaluate. Vander Esh he's the one that ain't nowhere. But I thought Warner one, Darius Leonard two was pretty set in stone on my sheet as well. Yeah, it's it's it's a really really good group um certainly in twenty eighteen, and that's reflecting back on it after fifteen three years of all these players not saying that was our pecking order at the time. Obviously Roquan was pretty bona fide linebacker one. Uh, you know, so no issues there, you have no question. Hey listen, the other big thing and we didn't really talk about this at the top with Warner, the reason why it's so important in this game, and we really highlighted this this week and Eagles game plan, you know, talk about like going in with with the Eagles as banged up as they are, you know, Zach Ertz, Miles Sanders, greg Ward, guys that if they're gonna be impacts here in the passing game for Carson Wentz, those are the guys are going to rely on with these injuries to Jalen Raager and you don't know what the deal is with the Shawan Jackson at this point, and Dalla Scoddard obviously out of the lineup. You need those guys and those are all players that Fred Warner has the ablity to impact because of the way that he plays in coverage. He can make plays on backs, he can make plays on slot receivers, he can make plays on tight ends. So that's why he's such an important player to discuss going into this game, because he's the player that you have to have circles and you have to have an idea of where he is on every single snap if you're dropping back to pass. Yeah. Absolutely, And I just love that Fred Warner is a through and through a three down linebacker. And just one last note on his rook campaign, only three players played a thousand snaps as a rookie defensively Derwin James in that incredible rookie year. I think there's an All Pro safety Jesse Bates who we covered last week profile, and Fred Warner. So the fact to show up as a rookie, third round pick, thousand snaps, never coming off the field, three down linebacker, the production right off the bat was really really impressive. Yeah, there's a bunch of really impressive coverage plays of Fred Warner and Eagles game plan this week. Greg Coselt did a great job breaking that down. Ben and I were trying to narrow it down to like one or two plays and we're watching, We're like, we can't here rid of any of these. We're throwing them all. So, Greg, what was like the surface statement we had coming away from some of those plays? What did I just keep saying after we saw the play? He understands what he understands how the offense is trying to attack them on any given play because he knows and we talked about this earlier with offenses, right, the offense knows, Okay, this is the you know, a defense knows, Hey, if they line up in this set, this is you know what they're gonna try and do. He knows on every single play. Hey, we're playing cover two. They know we're gonna be playing cover two. How are they going to try and attack Cover two? They're probably gonna run. You know this concept or that concept. And if I see at the snap this initial movement, I'm running to the catchpoint and he's that he is always around the football and that it goes back to that without questions. It was a really good point on your part. Well, Ben, this was fun, man, It's gonna be a fun matchup. We'll be breaking it all down next week here on the Eagle Line the Sky Podcast with Greg Cosell and then you and I'm breaking down Eagle Steelers a week from now. Thanks very much for joining us once again on the Eagle Line the Sky Podcast Field by Gatorade. Before we continue with this episode, I've got a question for you. Do you know that four years ago one hundred million eligible voters did not participate in the general election. That's the same size as the entire US television audience for the Super Bowl. That is crazy. That is way too insanely high, and it's something that we as a country need to fix. Important decisions that affect all of our lives are made not just by the presidential election, but by our local and state elections as well. So if you don't vote, then those decisions that affect you every single day, they're gonna be made by voters who may not share of the same values and opinions that you do in those priorities that you do. So if you don't vote, you give away your voice, you give away your power. It is so easy to get registered to vote if you're not already. It's just as easy to double check to make sure that you're registered to vote. And I know because I just did it this weekend, just a few days ago. All I did was text Eagles eg L S to two six seven nine seven and you can either register to vote right there or you can check your registration status. It is so easy, it's really fast, and most of all, it's extremely important. Please it's all of our civic duty to make sure that all of our voices are heard. Get out and vote on November third. Great stuff from Betton, who you could follow on Twitter, just like I do at Ben Fennel Underscore We're NFL and why You're at it. I'm at Eagles Exos. That's where I post all the podcasts. I'm a part of it, all of our x's nose content that we produced at Philadelphi Eagles dot com. And you know, I greatly appreciate everybody that promotes this podcast on all forms of social media. That's one way to support the show. But the other way is to go onto Apple Podcasts or Stitcher, leave us a rating or leave us a comment. I wanted to give a shout out to somebody who did exactly that. Football matt O seven eight four left a five star review saying how much they love the breakdowns and all the guests that we bring on the show every single week. Matt thank you so much for your rating, Thanks so much for the comment, Thanks you for your support and being a longtime listener. Real quick, before we wrapped up this show, I told you I was gonna catch up with Eagles defensive tackle Javon Hargrave. Let's get to that interview right now. We welcome to our Bob's disc Out one on one. Really really excited to welcome in Eagles defensive tackle Javon Hargrave. Javon, thanks for joining me today. Man, no problem, I'm happy to be here. So let's talk about you as an athlete, and I want to get back to young Javon Hargrave as a kid. What was your first love in terms of like playing sports? What what did you what did you like playing most grown up? Well, I was big on basketball. You know, Um, basketball is kind of the first thing you can play growing up because football you gotta start in the third grade, and basketball you started Kenny guard in first grade and things like that. So basketball was kind of my first love. And you know, I had dreams aspirations of being in the NBA before the NFL. You had a big high school career, right. I had read that you had turned your your high school team. I think you guys went you had like seven wins your sophomore year and you go to the state title your senior year. What was that like? Yeah, that was a transition. Transition my bad. But we had a we had a new coach, new players come in, a couple of young guys could trip in, and I don't know, we we struggled my sophomore year. Then a lot of us just grew up and got it rolling my senior year and ended up making a run to win the state championship. A lot of you know, you talk with, you know, whether they're college coaches recruiting high school players. As you talk with college or NFL scouts when they're looking at college offensive lineman, defensive lineman, you're looking with the big guys with the basketball background, or are there some of those things that you've carried with you from the hardwood to the gridiron. I think my quickness of me and some of my moves I do I believe came from basketball, you know, like defensive slides and just moving with some of the quicker guys. Kind of got my feet right. Some of my like my uncle he used to tell me all the time, don't quit basketball because basketball is gonna benefit for me for football. So that was kind of my thing. I've seen you work that eurostep in a little bit. I remember you had a sack against Jacksonville a couple of years ago where you like you stopped outside and you were able to cross face and get on the edge of the guard you got. You bring a little bit of that to the game for sure. Yeah, it's like gonna crossover. Did you have handles or you more like, you know, back to the basket. No, I ain't had to have those. I did. I was mostly back to the basket. I could drill a little bit, but I went out there trying to cross nobody over. So going to football, when did you know you're gonna be a defensive lineman? Was it like a media like as soon as you started playing? Man, it's crazy because defensive line always came easy to me. But of course growing up, I wanted to play running back or I wanted to play linebacker. But I remember, like just fourth grade, I was getting off the ball and just running past everybody, make it tackles. But I go back and try to be running back in middle school and it wasn't really working out. Then I think in high school I went back to defensive line and it just took off from there. Did they only play on one side or there were you able to play two ways? I was playing two ways in high school. I played, I played ball, I did. I ran the ball I did. I wouldn't let him putting me on the offensive line. I couldn't stand the offensive line. But I played a little tight end and running back and just defensive line. So you go to South Carolina State and you have a great career. There was a huge game, but we've got was it six sacks against Bethunica. Yeah, it was. So I read an interview you did where you said that that was a game that changed your life and really kind of put you on the radar. If you just talk about that and why that was such a big moment for you. I think, um, that year, I was having a great year and I was just coming off like a mcl sprain or something like that. And I didn't even start that game. I was coming out the bench, and you know, just not even knowing if I was gonna play a lot that game, and I don't know, I just end up getting like two or three in the first half and it took off from there. And after that, I had all the scouts coming in my school and it just kind of started blowing me up. You went to the Shrine Bowl, you had you had a big week down there. You went. I believe you were you were a late addition to the Senior Bowl as well. Right, what was that whole experience like leading up, because obviously you go to the Shrine, you're maybe like kind of feeling like you're under the radar. Then you go to the Senior Bowl. Did things? Did you kind of feel like the momentum was starting to build for you? Yeah? It was. It was. It was the greatest fan just trying to you know, coming from a small school to starting to play against all these big boys. But like the Shrine Bowl, it was great. Um, I killed that and I think I came to the Your Bowl and it's like I've seen how to speed just kind of change from you know, playing in a smaller level and going to the big boys. But it made me adjusting catch up and rose to the occasion rods to the level. So I believe you were named the spring as by the NFLPA as the top player from an HBCU in the in the NFL. What does that mean to you when you're one of the top players in the league coming from the HPCU, um, you know and all those schools, what does that mean for you? Deestly, that's a great feeling. Like I just remember coming out I was. I was at that same banquet with like Doug Williams in them, and they were just telling me I had to kind of carry the tradition tradition and if I did bad, it was gonna make everybody else look bad. So I always kind of try to carry that chip on my shoulder. And I just love this. Uh. I just love my HBCUs and love probably know everybody who came from HBCU. So we got some dolls. I was and it was a real exciting moment when I won the award. I mean, some of the best players in NFL history and certainly some of the best players in the league right now. Did you cross over with Darius Leonard with the culture you guys in there together, Yeah, that's my boy. Yeah, we used to compete like crazy. We played two years together. Okay, well two or three. Well he was there three years with me, but we played two years together. But Yeah, that's my boy who used to get down together. I believe it. Let me ask this question, So, Dean Sanders, obviously a huge name, gets named head coach of Jackson State. Does that help you in your mind, like put HBCUs even on the map for in terms of like college, high school recruiting and trying to get some of those best players to get back into the HBC level. Yeah, that's that's crazy because we were just talking about that in the locker room, just how much that might change the culture. And of course who who's the dB, A big time dB who wouldn't want to go and play for Dan Sandor So I think you're gonna start to see a lot of big names start the transition because, like you say, it doesn't really matter where you go, you can still make it to the NFA just off of all the talent we got in the league right now. So I think that's that's a big move for HBCUs, no question. I'm excited to see what that means for them moving forward into the future. Last question for you, what's one element of playing defensive line that you know, us on the outside, fans media, we don't necessarily think about, but you know, you know that it's really really important and it's key to your success. It's get off man, especially playing in this system right now, is getting off the ball. That's been a big thing from you know, just coming from why I failed, just being able to beat everybody off the ball. So yeah, if you don't know, just look at the fastest person getting off the ball and that's a that's a big thing. Well, no question. Well, Jayvon, thank you so much man for joining me. Stay safe, stay healthy, best of luck here the Sunday. I appreciate you, Thank you. Thanks so much to jay Von and all of you out there for your continued support of this show and all the rest of our podcast offerings on Philadelphiagles dot com. All that being said, I think that I'll do it another show in the books here on the Eagle Line, the sky podcas Cast fueled by Gatorade for everybody here at the Novocare Complex. I am fran Duffy. We'll talk to you next week.
Speaker 1: Eagles Entertainment. Eagle and the Sky is fueled by Gatorade, the official sports drink of the Philadelphia Eagles. Give me every time you got plays, play hard, big night they held. You're listening to the Eagle Eye in the Sky podcast. Now here's your host, Fran Duffy. That's the right of the week and we're scouting San Francisco. Is the Eagle on the Sky Podcast, fueled by Gatorade continues. I'm Fran Duffy, and as always, I think we've got a great show for you here on episode number two seventy four. At the top of this week's show, we've got chalk Talk where I chat with Ben Fennel about the Eagles Week four opponent on Sunday Night Football, San Francisco, forty nine or time. We'll talk about the key concepts of Kyle Shanahan's offense, what we'll see from them against this Eagles defense, and some big matchups and stats for the game at the top of the show in chalk Talk. After that, Ben and I will go through our scouting reports segment. When this week I wanted to focus on one of the blue chip players on this forty nine Ers team, and the impact he could have in this game. That player is linebacker Fred Warner. We will talk all about him, how much of an impact he could have in this game. So we'll cover all of that and scouting report. But that is not all because at the end of today's show, I also caught up with Eagles defensive tackle Javon Hargrave to talk about his history as a player coming up from high school, college, and obviously to the NFL. Before we get there, though, a couple of things I just wanted to make sure we hit on as a quick reminder, the best way to throw us your support if you're enjoying these podcasts on a weekly basis, just do us a favor. Jump on an Apple podcast or Stitcher, leave us a rating, leave us a comment. If you leave a question, we will answer it here on the show. I know I'm going to answer a couple here at the very end, and guess what, by that point, we are tapped out. So if you've got questions about this Eagles team, about any upcoming matchup, jump on Apple podcast, leave a question, and we will answer it on the next show. So this is the time. Hit pause right now, go on, leave a comment, and we will make sure we answer it. If you've got a question, we'll answer it on the very next episode of this podcast. Also, I mentioned Eagles game plan, and before I get to my chat with Ben, I want to give a little bit of a tease to a segment that we had on this week's episode here where I caught up with Eagles defensive line coach and run game coordinator Matt Burke to talk about the Eagles defensive performance on Sunday. Here's a small bite from a segment that we call Tape Study presented by Chickies and Pets. We'll joining us this week on Tape Study presented by Chickies and Pets. Eagles defensive line coach and run game coordinator Matt Burke. Matt, welcome to the show Man. Thanks for having me free appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely, So let's go through. There were eight sacks obviously for the defense in Sunday's game against Cincinnati, and I thought we just break down a couple of them here. I thought there were a lot of interesting things to kind of talk about from a pure XS and O standpoint. I want to jump right in here. We're gonna go to Derek Barnett sack in the second quarter. We talk all week last week on Eagles game plan all about the Cincinnati Bengals and those empty sets, and I couldn't wait to see what your guys game plan was for that, and we kind of get a sense of that here in the first half. Yeah, for sure. I mean there was an extensive part of what they do, and I think bar was really good at kind of having a clear picture of reading the field and kind of getting opened up like that. So we knew our just general game plan with the empty stuff was to kind of give him different looks, like we felt that they were going to empty, to make him more comfortable, let them see everything everything declares quickly, so we had a lot of different checks and sort of pitches to just try to keep them off balance because they did a really good job with their whole empty game plan. So this was one of the looks that we got into where we walked both those linebackers up and those a gaps just to try to force some things and try to feel how they were going to handle that look. Obviously, you know, we're showing a sort of six man pressure, if you will, with the four down and the two linebackers, So we're gonna go now into overtime. And this was one of my favorite sacks of the game here, coach, because to me, there were so many different elements that made this play work. And you know, you guys in man coverage on this play, and one of my favorite terms that fans love to hear about the green dog blitz, where a guy from the second or third level in man coverage is able to kind of read what's happening and insert himself into the pressure. Just kind of take us through what we're gonna see here on this play. Yeah, sure, you know, and obviously you guys saw from the game where you know, Jay Mills had obviously a couple of sacks or a second a half and some pressures and some hits, so that was a big element of what they were doing. You know, we're having some production in the in the past game obviously up front, so it becomes a game where they start bringing extra blockers into the front here, so the tight end comes over and as you play it on here, so let's play action, and essentially what they're trying to get here is you can see there's essentially a double on the league double on BG, double on Fletch, and really that back has the option to chip out on Derek, so it could end up being a double on Derek with the tackle on the back. So they're trying to get four hands on each of our guys up front and to you know, slow that down. And then obviously, you know a lot of times these plaction plays are deeper shots, so you know, buy some time for that quarterback to set up and stretch those routes down the field. So Jalen's covering that tight end there, so you're green dog maybe more appropriate for the green Goblin, but you know he sees as soon as that tight end makes contact with BG right there, he adds into the rush. So he puts himself in as in a rusher, saying, hey, guy that I'm covering is blocking. Let me kind of bring that in there. So as you see, the receiver feels him coming and ends up coming off BG. So now again BG ends up with the one on one whereas they're trying to get double teams on every guy here. Because of Jalen's aggressiveness to get into the rush, it frees BG up to get a one on one and is able to beat the tight end again here in protection. To me, it's just one of those things where like everyone sees the final outcome, but if it weren't for Jalen Mills ability to kind of insert himself and now BG understanding head, now I've got this one on one, I've got to win whenever I've got that opportunity. It just kind of cool to see all those distant elements come together here on this play. Certainly, and honestly, even all the other three guys. I mean, that's dirty work, you know they're doing in terms of squeezing the pocket and fighting those double team teams and just sort of making there's no open step up lanes and stuff. So yeah, it was a nice team sack there. Obviously BG deserves a lot of credit, but got some help from the rest of the crew. It was a fun conversation there with Matt Burke. We broke down a lot of stuff. It was a trio of plays three sacks from this game, including a couple of sacks that just have a ton of layers to them. So from that entire segment, make sure you go check out this week's version of Eagles Game Plan, which will be up on Philadelphi Eagles dot Com and the Eagles Mobile app on Friday, or if you're local to the Philadelphia area, you can always check it out Sunday morning at ten am on NBC ten Philadelphia. All right, talking about Eagles game Plan again, Let's bring in the guy who is so important to the production of that show each and every week. That is Ben Fennel. It's diving to our chat now in chalk Talk. Let's get down the business. It's time for chalk Talk. Well back again for another segment of chalk Talk here on the Eagle Line of Sky podcast fueled by Gatorade, my friend Ben Fennel. Ben, Look, we'll jump right in. Man. We did a lot of work this week getting ready for Eagles Game Plan, which will air later this week on Philadelphi Eagles dot Com. If you're listening to this, it should be up on Friday, Riam, late morning, midday something and something like that, and if you live in the Philadelphia region, it will air on Sunday morning, ten am on NBC ten. Just getting ready for the show, Ben, You know, we had a lot of talks about, Hey, what are the topics with the forty nine ers, what are the things we wanted to cover, and you know, defensively, we wanted to talk about linebacker Fred Warner. I don't think we need to jump in too far on him right now, because in our next segment on scouting Report, I know we're gonna talk a lot about Fred Warner, you know, nuts and bolts of it. We both love him, one of the best linebackers in the league, certainly a lot of fun to study. So I don't want to spend too much time here because I know we're gonna talk about him in the next segment. But on the other side, plenty to discuss with this forty nine Ers team. You know, you look at this Kyle Shanahan offense and what their identity is, what their staples are. We know, you know what he can bring to the table, all the different backfield actions, living in base personnel. We talk about this a little bit with Greg Kosel the other day. And then you know, also Kyle Uscheck, one of your favorite players in the NFL, and obviously George Kittle, And I think, you know, we all know what George Kittle brings. But I think when you have a guy like Kyle us Check, who we didn't really talk too much about the other night here on the show, and I feel like you and I can have a really good discussion about him, what that does for an offense and how that can really help to provide some information to the quarterback before the snap when you have a versatile fullback like a Kyle us Check on the field. Yeah, absolutely. You know, both us Check and George Kittle fall into my two way disguise category of player because when they're on the field, they aren't giving away offensive intent. They're dominant run players, they're dominant in the pass game. They're tough, and they're versatile, which makes it very tough for defenses to understand how they're trying to be attacked on a down to down basis. So if the Niners can constantly come out in twenty one personnel, which they leave the NFL in, and that means it could be a running back use Check or maybe two running backs back there, and then that one tight end just becomes very tough to match up because you can run so many different offensive schemes out of that, and having versatile players like use Check like George Kittle really is the motor oil for that offense and they may not always be producing in the stat sheet, but I promise you it's their ability to be two way players that it lets that offense tick. Yeah, it's a great point. And not only that too, but you know, you look at it, you talk about it from a defensive standpoint, as you mentioned, you know, look defenses at offenses as well. They're all working on tendencies. You know, people talk about analytics and football. Analytics have been president football since the ever since. They will be able to put it on film because you know, you start putting together cutoffs and you start working on tendencies. Hey, when it's this down and distance and they come out in this personnel group and line up in this formation, they tend to go with this kind of concept or this kind of play, or it's a not just it's a run or a pass, but it might be a high low concept in the middle field. It might be a screen, it might this, it might be that when you have a guy like a Kyle used Check, when you have a guy like a George Kittle, that's where that versatility and as you mentioned, you called them the two way disguised players. When you have those that kind of versatile chess piece on an offense. You can line up George Kittle in line with Kyle Uscheck in the backfield, you know, and you will say a twenty one personnel set, and you might be running ISO lead. You might be running you know, two back power. You might also be running a three level stretch. You might be running Kyle us Check free down the scene with George Kittle in the flat, or vice versa. You could be running a number of different things. And that's not to mention, you know, oh now we got twenty one personnel and oh yeah, now we're going empty and we're doing all different things there, like you know, with how they move, but you know, it just it creates a really sense of a sense of insecurity for the defense because usually those guys are just kind of going through the role of decks. They're like, all right, down a distance, I know what the situation is. I see the personnel grouping. Okay, now I'm already thinking, I'm already processing what could be coming when they line up a certain way. There's a long laundry list of things that they could be doing out of those sets. And that's why you have a guy like us Check, a guy like Kittle, and it really kind of makes the entire offense go. And there's a couple of coaches grouped into this coaching tree philosophy. Now you have Kyle Shanahan, Sean McVay, Matt Laflour now in Green Bay. But spending this back to you, Fran, what is this your elevator speech difference on Kyle Shanahan's offense and Sean mcvay's offense, because essentially they're cut from the same cloth, but they operate just a little bit differently with their personnel and some of those tendencies. Yeah, and it's something that we talked about a little bit with the Rams back in Week two. Historically, you know, obviously it's a short sample size, but you know, Sean McVay when he's been the head coach, they have been heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy eleven personnel, Like you know when they went to the Super Bowl was I mean it was like over ninety eleven personnel, right, they lived in three receiver sets. Now we are starting to see them come back a little bit. You're starting to see them do a little bit more twelfth personnel. They're playing with Higbee and Everett on the field at the same time. But when then when you look at Kyle Shanahan, he does a lot with twenty one, With twelve twenty two, they have the two for all the things that we were just talking about, and not only that. You know there's again there's not one right way. With McVeagh, the thought is I want more speed on the field. With Shanahan, it's more I want you to see you want to be in subpackage. Defensively, I want to keep you in base, So I'm going to put my base personnel players out there. You're gonna have two backs, two tight ends. You know we're gonna I'm gonna mix and match. But now I'm gonna try and take advantage of linebackers in space. I'm going to try and make those guys wrong and make you guys defend more areas of the field. So that's, I guess, is the key philosophy. But you see the backfield actions the screen game, all that suff A lot of it is the same, and they're they're cut from the same cloth from that standpoint, But to me, that's the biggest difference. I don't know if you had something else in mind as well. Yeah, I think Shanahan is an interesting hybrid. And I know this is going to sound like a huge statement because I'm gonna choose two very impactful coaches, But he's a little bit of a high bred of Sean McVay and Andy Reid because Andy Reid is so multiple, and I think that's where Shanahan has differentiated himself from McVeagh that like to come out in the same personnel, the same look, the same initial action, and just having that foundation. The Niners did that initially when Shanahan first got there, but it becomes so much more multiple, so much more diverse with the personnel groupings literally doubling the amount of power and gap runs from year one to year two with Kyle Shanahan much more of a diverse and interesting run game that it's starting to mirror the Chiefs offense and the way they attack on a week to week basis, and the versatile players and some of the interesting offensive designs. I think it's kind of an interesting mix of the two. Obviously, that's a great combo Sean McVay, Andy Reid, a little bit of both. That sounds pretty good, but it's just a very interesting mix on how he designs that offense and see I remember when the Eagles were playing the forty nine Ers. I mean, I think it was his first year, coy Shanna, his first year in San Francisco. Uh, you know, we were doing an Eagle at column. You were and we were watching film. We're breaking down that offense, and I mean you went back to his day as his offensive coordinator in Houston, in Atlanta, in Cleveland, in Washington, and we saw the same staple concepts, like they ran the same There was like four or five different plays. We saw, you know, the the tight end throwback, We saw the post cross off play action. We saw you know, a lot of those same plays over and over and over again. I still think you still see them in the in that modern U in this current state of this offense. But to your point, I think there's a lot more multiplicity there and you're seeing a lot more creativity with the backfield actions where guys are lined up. Certainly with what they've done with Deebo Samuel last year, with Brandon I Yuk over the last couple of weeks with these receivers as runners. Um, it's you know, it's a whole lot of window dressing and just getting the ball into their playmaker's hands and allowing them to pick up first down to move the football. Yeah, I think You's Check and Kittle really do kind of mirror Travis Kelsey and Anthony Sherman in Kansas City more than anybody else in the league now. I think Kelsey's a little more pass game upside, Sherman's more of a through and through fullback. You Check much more versatile, and obviously George Kittle a great in line tight end there. But how they use those players in Kansas City is very similar to what we're seeing in San Francisco. So I want to try something a little bit new this week before we get into like our matchups and big stats and stuff. I almost want to like just empty my notebook on like little buzz items, and you'd like literally like interrupt me, stop me if there's something that you feel is like that we should like expand on. You know, at quarterback we talked about Garoppolo and Nick Mullins the other day with Greg. I don't think we need to dive too deep into their running back. I feel the same way. I mean, we know the kind of talents they've got there. I know, you know there's been pieces I want to say. Albert Brier talked with I forget it was a former Shanahan quarterback, and one of the quotes that's always stuck with me. Every single running back that they acquire when with Kyle Shanahan has to impact as a pass catcher. And again that goes back to what we said about you check and with Kittle, with all these positions, you don't know if it's gonna be a run or a pass as this guy because those versatile skill sets. And again with the receivers they've acquired, these are all guys that you know, Brandon I Yu Can Deebo, Samuel Hey, we can give them the ball as runners and obviously we can impact, you know, use them in the passing game as well. All that's it's it's all with that same idea. To me, the blueship players on offense try obviously, George Kittle, Trent Williams at left tackle has been I mean, he's I wonder what he was gonna look like after the year off and you know he just hadn't play a lot. He looks outstanding on the on the left side. So um to me, like those are the blueship players. Brand spending this to the skill players out there and who you're game planning for in a week to week basis. They've the Niners have had as many injuries as anybody in the NFL. Deebo I think is coming off? Irman just went to ir Kittle has been out for two weeks. But just give me a yes or no? Are these guys starting on anybody's fantasy team last week? These are the no, no, The biggest plays for the Niners last week against the gi It's Kendrick Bourne starting anywhere. No, not defense, Jeffrey Wilson, No, Brandon Iyuk got you know, second game? Yeah, probably yeah, rosst Welly twenty yard game. No, Trent Taylor twenty yard game. No Jeric McKinnon twenty six yard game, the only downfield completion of the season. Some people might have been but no. But you get what I'm saying about this Niners offense. It's like a next guy up. It doesn't matter who you are. It's tough to game plan for these guys because it's so versatile, it's so multiple, and it's so interchangeable. I don't know if anybody on the Niners would ever start for somebody's fantasy team even going to a Tevin Coleman or even when Debo gets healthy. Obviously George Kittle deserves it. But it's just really interesting the fact they've had injuries and then all these guys get a step up and start making plays in the offense. Yeah, and they've just been they've been very, very creative. You talk about the injuries, you know, guys that have been banged up in and out of the lineup. They've been an eleven personnel thirty five percent of the time, thirty six percent of the time so far the season. I mean, that's a crazy low number. And you talk about twenty one, well twenty two. They're mixing up personnel usage, and they're they're just finding ways to be able to like no kiddll no Deebo Samuel, no problem. We'll scheme open guys. It's like Matt la Floor last week, No DeVante Adams. It's okay, let's run our offense. Next guy up, and we'll scheme some guys open, you know, through our offensive design. Yeah, no question. And then you go to the defensive side, and in this group, they've lost a lot of players too. You lose Nick Bosa, you lose Solomon Thomas, who you know, isn't the level of Nick Bosa. Certainly you'd lose a Richard Charman and what he means not just on the field but off the field. And you had a bunch of guys that were banged up that whole second there. I think they're the top three corners were out of this. In this past game against the Giants, Mosley got hurt mid game. A Kella Witherspoon was out going into the game. So you know their top three outside corners are gone. Can I just say real quick, one thing like Jason Varette playing and getting his first action. I don't know if you've got the numbers in front of you in terms of like how many snaps he's played over the course of his career. You and I both loved him coming out of TCU, A lot of people did. He was a first round pick for the Chargers. Injury roiled career. I was kind of interested, like, all right, he's gonna hit, he has to play a lot, you know, with this injury. How is he gonna look? He looked so good. He looked really really good, And that's to me, like that's one of the sort of the best stories in football right now, and it's been one game he's played. What did he played, like sixty snaps the other day, forty snaps the other day. But he looked awesome. That's he's been great. And he was injured as a rookie, then that big Pro Bowl year as a sophomore, then injured, injured, injured into as a nineteen he played forty five snaps and his return to action, literally played sixty seven snaps in three years dealing with all those injuries. But when he's healthy and on the field, it so literally one of the best cornerbacks in the NFL. We just have no idea what the type of player we're getting after this multitude of injuries. But what he put on tape on Sunday really impressive. He looked like he's back to form. Kalan Williams is the nickel corner. He's a nice player. Vrett really really impressive though on the outside now, Emmanuel Moseley, he did leave the game this past week. I have not seen what his status is. I think they were waiting to see we're recording this Wednesday midday. I believe they're waiting for Wednesday's practice to finish before really giving an extra report, so something to kind of follow. They brought back Deonte Johnson was a former forty nine er draft pick. He got the majority of the snaps opposite Varette up and down game for sure, you know, in his return to the field to that forty nine ers defense. I talked with Greg the other day, you know about just a transition. Robert sala is the defensive coordinator. Primarily, you know, Cover three comes from Pete Carroll all. That's what they had been heavy change to more quarters look, and Greg and I talked about this. I'm interested to kind of get your thoughts. Why do you think that we're starting to see a little bit more quarters around the league? And then we'll talk a little bit about the strengths and weaknesses of quarters coverage and kind of draw it up a little bit for our listeners. You know, it's a really good question because we've been seeing it more, particularly out of some of the traditional single high team Seattle, Atlanta and really being tendency breakers. I'm not sure if maybe they're trying to have more safety involvement in the run. It also provides less communication and pass off assignments when you're in that quarters coverage. How you're playing that four deep cover four. You know, it's an interesting conversation. I think there's probably different reasons for different strokes for different folks on a week to week basis, But just kind of explaining the cover four that means you have four deep, deep players protecting each a quarter. But the interesting thing is the depth of those players. They're not way back like a Cover three or a Cover two. Typically those middle safeties are sitting at about ten to twelve yards because they have run keys or run responsibilities, so they have to get nosy and keep their eyes in the backfield looking to fill the run downhill. So we see a lot of attacking those safeties being a little more shallow, especially off of play action where you could get them to take a step or two up for those run reads and then try to hit something over the top. We've seen countless, countless attacks on that coverage over the years, particularly on early downs trying to get them in run looks and then going down the field. But yeah, it's kind of interesting we've been seeing to start the season. Your friend, Yeah, and I think it's it's also interesting, you know, you talk about different ways to be able to attack quarters. Greg made the point the other night that you know, you're starting to see these quarters that the teams that are playing with with heavy quarters, that the cornerbacks on the outside are playing with more man discipline, with more than man technique and more man responsibility. So the safeties are still playing with, as you know, a Cover four safeties, but you're seeing a little bit more man on the outside. And the reason why that's important, you know, you look at the big plays that have been given up against Cover four over the course, you know they're really I don't know, as a lot long as you and I've been watching film together, Uh, A lot of it has to do not just with the run fakes, but you know what offenses do with the number two receiver because you know, as as is the case with every zone coverage concept, there are rules for all these guys. And so if you are a safety in playing quarters, playing cover four, if the number two receiver, if the slot receiver, if he attacks it a certain depth, it turns into a man and man coverage basically. So I believe, Ben Craig if I'm wrong, I believe if it's like somewhere between like eight to ten yards if that receiver looks like he's working vertically, if you're not playing that middle part of the field anymore, you are now essentially playing man to man against that slot receiver. So if you run a let's say a vertical route like a deep post route from your outside receiver, your corner is going to play him with outside leverage, funnel him to his safety help. But if that safety is now being taken away by a vertical route quote unquote from the number two receiver, well now there's no help in the middle of the field. And now you've got a safety or you've got a post route running wide open for a touchdown. The corner's got his arms up saying, where's my safety. The safety's looking at the corner like, yeah, I've got my man. How come you don't have your man? You know? The I guess the thought is with the man coverage concept only outside and the quarter safety still playing quarters, that kind of eliminates the threat of those kind of miscommunications on the back end. Yeah, and I'm having so many ideas and thoughts. I don't want to get too far in the weeds here. I think the quarters is also a counter to all the three by one sets around the NFL, and just telling that one X receiver in your corner the press man lock that player and then allowing that other safety to key the number three from the backside allows you to still double number two. And quarters coverage essentially is a zone match. After two and a half seconds, it turns into man coverage, so it allows them to still clamp on late in the down, have kind of man to man principles and still kind of being a you know, shaded to the strength of the offensive formation. A lot of these three by one sets that we're seeing around the NFL, if you want to play a cover two or even a cover three to three by one, you're kind of putting too many bodies where there's not enough offensive bodies. And I think quarters just allows you to key the three by one a little bit more. I don't want to get too far in the weeds here with coverage principles here, but I'm just trying to make sense of why we're seeing it more. No, it's a that's a very very good point, you know, just thanks schematically here with San Francisco. The other thing I think a lot of people think of, you know, the peak Caroltree Oh, it's it's not a lot of blitzing. It's the four man rush. Especially if you think with this the defensive line, Oh, they you know, they don't need to do a ton They just they just let those four guys get after it. No third down they are. They're gonna line up in a lot of different fronts, a lot of different looks. They're gonna come at you from different angles. They're sending linebackers, they're sending nickel corners, they're sending safeties. Um, you know, they have lined up in these five over five looks, they line up in tilted fronts. They run a lot of different stunts as well with the you know, with guys, even if you know you have a nick posts in there, you think, oh, yeah, he's okay running one on one. No, like they're gonna loop him inside, They're gonna use him as a picker. They're gonna do all kinds of things with these guys. So it's gonna be a big assignment game for this Eagles offensive line as well. Yeah. Absolutely, yeah. So let's get to um some of the matchups we like in this game. And for me, one one on one matchup that I think is gonna be really fascinating to be able to watch. Uh is going to be Fletcher Cox, who obviously had a huge game. This whole Eagles defensive line just had a huge game against the Cincinnati Bengals. Going up against the right guard Daniel Brunskill. Now this is a matchup one on one. You know, if it's the third and eight, you like that matchup for Fletcher Cox. The thing that the Eagles have to avoid is what happened in Week two against LA and we talked about the kind of the similarities there between you know, Sean McVay offense and Kyle Shanahan offense. If San Francisco is able to stay ahead of the sticks, they're able to stay on schedule, and they're having success on first and second down, and it's third and two and you've got the jet action, you've got the play action, you've got all those different factors. That's gonna negate that pass rush that's gonna slow up Fletcher Cox a little bit. So it'll be up to the Eagles defense to try and keep San Francisco behind the sticks a little bit in this game. And now you can have some of those matchups win for you, especially on that interior three where you've got brunt Skill at right guard, Ben Garland is in a center, and then you've got Lake and Thomlinson at left guard. I feel like those are the matchups you can really kind of try and see if you can take advantage of in this matchup, and listen, Brunskill is really athletic pron offensive lineman, played the right tackle position for nearly half the season for the forty nine years last year on the way to the Super Bowl, filling in from Mike McGlinchey. But this is not a good matchup for Brunskill. Brunskills a little light in the pants to play guard. It's about two eighty or so, came into league at about two seventy five to sixty or so, so he's a little light in the pants. A little bit like the what we saw Fletch due to Billy Turner late in the game against the Bengals, I could see a little bit more of that. So the Niners know that they're gonna make sure Brunskill has help. They're gonna make sure they keep Fletcher Cox on the move, trying to keep him going laterally rather than go flying up the field. Really blowing up a lot of that action in the backfield. No, that's a really good point. Is there a matchup that you will have your eyes onto this matchup? I'm gonna go with an interesting one here because I'm gonna kind of go with Kyle Shanahan against our linebacking corps. I'm expecting to see a lot of t J. Edwards, a lot of Nate Gary. So what I wrote down in my notes are Edwards and Gary verse backfield action. And this is a Niners team that leads the NFL and shifts in motions not only before the snap, but into the snap. There's a lot of moving parts as the quarterback is taking that exchange from center, and there's a lot of eye candy, a lot of moving parts, whether it's jet motions, orbit motions, return motions, which are when a player starts one direction and then counters back to where it came from, like we saw Kyle Uschek to last week leading the way on a really cool end around a Brandon Aiyuk. So there's a lot going on in the backfield. You have to have your keys down, you have to know what your reads are and not get caught up with all that eye candy because he throws a lot of it back there. And it doesn't matter who's at quarterback, this is the foundation, or even at receiver or at running back. This is the foundation of their offense. And it's a lot of smoking mirrors and maybe it's not as much substance as most teams in the NFL, but it can really put guys out a position. This is to me, that is the big key of the game. Honestly, you know you talked about like the matter. I know I talked about flexer, Cox and Bronsko, but this is one of the pivotal matchups in this game. And I'm really glad that you brought that up because it is absolutely going to be important. And I'm thinking they're going to keep us into that base defense like they do often with that twenty one personnel that they lead the NFL in with us check. That means I think we're gonna see a little more t J. Edwards and I'm excited for that prospect because he's a very instinctual player, is very good intelligence football IQ typically knows how he's being attacked, plays a good physicality, a little bit limited as an athlete, but I love what he has between the ears. So I'm really excited to see t J. Edwards out there on a down to down basis, And it'll be a little different than what the Rams would do. Similar type of offensive style with those jet motions and eye candies, but less twenty one personnel. So that'll keep us out of that sub package and more into that heavier defensive package. So let's talk bring it back to Eagles game plan a little bit. Is there something that you wish we had gotten into the show this week that's gonna be pivotal to this matchup that you know, obviously we weren't able to sneak into you know, the first or second block the show. Yeah, actually, and I think it was a long game. It was a tie. There are a lot of plays to watch. There are a lot of narratives and tones of the game. Obviously when you have a tie going, you know, a whole extra quarter. But what the Eagles did at the end of the first half and then the end of the fourth quarter, those ended drive halfs generating touchdowns were enormous and maybe the most productive efficient offenses the Eagles have put up in twenty twenty. On both those drives and there's a lot of cat and mouse philosophies on how do you play defensively in those situations, But when you gotta have it in those two minute drills at the end of the half, end of the game, I thought that was just a huge kind of confidence booster for the Eagles, And I think you have to look at those two drives moving forward as that confidence in that fuel that hey, we can move the ball and click while we're playing in rhythm, playing fast. I think there's some things that kind of pick and choose from for what they did. And to your point, you know, Doug Peterson talked earlier this week about the possibly using tempo a little bit more, so maybe that is something that we will see. It's a very good point on your part. To me, it was one of the things I brought up earlier, and that was the just the forty nine ers pressure scheme. That was something that we had gone back and forth about all that we use one of these third down blitzes. We ended up settling in on Fred Warner. But uh, you know, looking at all they do from a pressure standpoint, Uh, it's gonna be really really important. The Eagles have struggled in protection. You know, for the most part of these first three games, um, they have not held up well enough to keep Carson Wentz up right. That's gonna be a big, big part of this game. You know, I mentioned it. It's gonna be huge for the Eagles defense to keep San Francisco behind the sticks. The Eagles offense needs to be in as many third and two, third and threes, third and fours as possible in this matchup. If you're getting a third and ten, third and eleven, they're they're bringing something and you don't know where it's coming from. You don't know if it's the right, the left, inside, outside, if it's a different second level defender, third level defender, if it's a stunt. They got to be ready for the entire gamut of pressures from the San Francisco defense. The other guy too, that we didn't really talk about. We haven't talked about him yet. What if you thought of watch up on kind law Man. He's been impressive on film. He sure looks that part in ninety nine. It really looks like the Forest Buckner just wearing that number and playing a similar role. He's long, he's strong, he's heavy handed, really fun player. Will flash at times. I think he's still kind of finding his timing down and how he's being attacked, and you know, when to shoot up field and when to hand fight or when to kind of anchor down and just kind of assessing NFL run schemes on a down to down basis. He looks a little lost at times, but he has some really impressive tools that he could turn it on and the drop of a dime and make a splash play or disrupted a run action or blow up a running scheme. He's flashed that certainly on a quarter to quarter basis. Not really a full time player just yet, yep. But with some of the injuries they have, I'm sure they're expecting him to kind of kick up and ramp up that play count. Yeah, they've certainly had to lean on him a little bit more over the last couple of weeks with the injuries had On the defensive line, he's just consistent knock back. He's a handful of block I mean, he's there's people that bothered me on this d line, like Carrie Hider. This guy does not look like he should be a productive NFL player. He's like a two hundred and eighty five pound defensive end. Where's those long sleeves? His jersey looks terrible on him. This guy just wakes up in the morning hunting quarterbacks. He doesn't look like he's gonna be a good productive player, but he just keeps getting jobs around the NFL, whether it's Detroit, Dallas, now in San Francisco, and he's productive every time he's out there. It's a really fun player to watch. It's a crafty player, high motor, He's always chasing the football. No, he is one of my favorite like kind of role players to study in the league. Let's get to u some numbers here, bandy. I always ask you for your favorite stat or two of the week. What do you got for us here against San Francisco. Yeah, I'm gonna rightful off a couple here. So we already mentioned the twenty one personnel leading the NFL at over forty percent, not just to Kyle Uscheck, but also the two back pony stuff you're gonna see. Maybe you know Jeff Wilson and McKinnon out there together Raheem Mostard and Jeff Wilson and some of those pony sets. The other thing we mentioned in the shifts and motions over seventy five percent of the offensive plays including a shift or emotion. That's over three forts. Really really impressive, very balanced offense shotgun under center of fifty five point nine percent shotgun, so kind of flirting at that fifty fifty ratio makes it really tough to kind of figure out what they're doing. That means they could still work into play action boots and in certain schemes from I wonder how that. I wonder how that changed with the change of quarterback with when Garoppolo was heard, if they went by I didn't look at what the ratio was with Mullins this week. I wonder if, yeah, that's a good point on a weekn be basis, and if maybe one of the quarterbacks feels more comfortable with one of those schemes. The interesting thing as well, fram this is the best offense on third and long that six or more yards are converting forty seven percent of the time. That's number one in the NFL. The other interesting thing is they've only completed one pass downfield all year, so this isn't a team attacking over the top. Yet when they get into those third and medium long situations, they feel comfortable converting. And I just think it's kind of an interesting philosophical kind of meeting of the minds here, the fact that they don't push the ball down the field yet can generate some chunk plays when they need to. And I think that's just really speaking to the offensive design and what Shanahan does when he needs that kind of seven to fifteen yard chunk play. And I think that, you know, going back to the comparison between what the Eagles are going to see here this week and Week four to what they saw in Week two, do you think of that game defensively, it wasn't like it was bombs away, like balls going over corners heads. I mean, you had the twenty eight yard or to Higbee on the throwback, but outside of that, it was golf rolling out of the pocket and hitting Robert Woods for eleven or you know, Cooper Cup for seventeen or this guy for a catch and run for twenty eight. You know, there weren't a lot of you know, deep balls going down the field. And I think that's the case in the San Francisco offense as well. And now with that being said, though, don't come checking the receipts after the game, though, I know they want to get Brandon I Youth down the field, and as he gets involved more and more in the offense, he's likely going to be that shot play guy. So you could tell last week of the Giants involving him in the run game and the pass game. Was really one of the feature players in the offense last week against the Giants. So if he does get behind the Eagles defense this week, I know it's in their plans at some point for him to be that vertical threat. That's a very good point. And that one downfield catch was actually Jerick McKinnon lined up in the slot and ran a corner route. So you never know who's gonna go deep. And don't sleep on Kyle us Check going deep either no out of the backfield too or running down the scene we've seen running sail routes. I mean, you know he's gonna do all of that from the backfield, all right, Ben, So we'll put this matchup to bed. Last thing before we wrap up this segment around the league. Anything else from from studying teams from around the NFL that you want to kind of empty the notebook on. Yeah, three things really fast. It's gonna have a little three pack each week. Number One, dominant, dominant run defense. We know that Tampa Bay Buccaneers, they're the best run defense last year. They're picking right up where they left off this year. Vita Vea, Sue Shack, Barrett, really fun group JPP. But the Pittsburgh Steelers what they're doing on a defensive line nasty, nasty group, Bud Dupree, TJ Watt, Stephen Tua, Cam Hayward, the resurgence of Tyson Alla Wallo, Devin Bush, nasty front seven. Both of those teams are way out in front with run defense. Number two, how about Jeremy chen for the Carolina Panthers, number sixty four overall pick in the second round and absolute steel playing tons of snaps. One of the more productive players in the NFL, not just rookies but in general and playing a variety of positions on the line of scrimmage, linebacker, safety, tons of tackles. I think he's so much closer to an Isaiah Simmons level of prospect than a lot of us thought. And the third, how about the Green Bay Packers in the run game second in the NFL and rushing yards per game, taking that pressure off of Aaron Rodgers, keeping him playing in structure. And I think that's a really scary proposition. The Packers with a dominant run game and Aaron Rodgers and some guys on defense to get after the past. They're really dangerous formula they got brewing up in Green Bay. Yeah, that note about Pittsburgh. We'll be talking a lot about them next week right here on the show. Obviously, the Eagles playing Pittsburgh Steelers in week number five. We'll see. The news came out this morning that the Tennessee Titans of Pittsburgh Steelers game was postponed. No word yet, there has been some reports that it could be Monday, maybe even Tuesday. So we'll see what happens with the Pittsburgh Steelers here in week four. Ben, let's get to our next facum here, it's time. Now let's talk about some Fred Warner in scouting report. Damn those lights. We're headed to the film room for this scouting report, all right, Ben, So let's talk about a player that you and I were both high on coming out of BYU, and that's linebacker Fred Warner. He was I believe a top thirty player for me coming out of college in twenty eighteen. I loved his film. In fact, I believe I went back. I looked the other day because we were talking about him. I had Dallas Goddard a few slots ahead of him. I had Dallas godd is a top twenty five player in that class. Warrener went a few I think he went like fifteen or so picks after Dallas Goddard did so. I thought both both teams got really good steals in the area that they were able to get him. Warner was just one of my favorite players man, and real quick. I kind of buzzed through some of my notes on him, and I want to get your thoughts on him as well. Three year starter, but the last two years of his career was spent as an outside linebacker in a three to four, and he would line up off the edge, but he would also line up to in the slot. He'd be stacked in their Nickels set, so he was. He lined up all over the field and at times, just the way he moved, he looked like a big safety, you know. I mean, this was a great athlete, fluid, explosive, He covered a ton of ground in a hurry, extremely comfortable, in space. He could close and you know, make plays in the open field. It was really really impressive from an instinct standpoint, read things pretty quickly, you know, from the slot, especially in terms of pass did not back down from contact though. He was very aggressive in the run game. Not a true stack and shed player, but he would keep his hands tight, he'd shock a blocker and bounce off and find the football. He was an explosive, violent tackler. We still see that on tape here with the forty nine ers and a really experienced underneath zone defender. He could drop to his landmark with ease, get his eyes back to the quarterback. We used in man coverage against slot receivers and did not have any issue with running backs or tight ends, and I didn't think that would be an issue for him in the NFL. Hand eye coordination to finish at the catchpoint was really productive throughout the course of his career, not just in the run game with TFLs, but to a bunch of plays in coverage, a bunch of pass breakups. Two of his seven interceptions went back to the house for touchdowns. My concerns a little bit on the smaller side, you know, not a really small but a little bit on the smaller side. Wondered how could he get overwhelmed by bigger blockers in the NFL. Would he be able to add weight and get a little bigger to be a true three down player? And I thought it would be a little bit of a projection to see him as a pure three down player right away, just because he was used in so many different ways overall. My final statement on him though, at his floor, I thought that he would be a dynamite special teamer, but I thought he was much more than that. Elite athlete with the kind of physicality that I look for at the linebacker position. He must prove that he could transition into a true stacked role to be worthy of drafting high. But he was an NFL player physically, a three down NFL starter with high upside as a WILL or a SAM. He's reached that upside. Ben as we talked about with Greg earlier this week, he is one of the top two or three linebackers in the NFL in my opinion. Yeah, absolutely, he's a really fun player to watch coming at a BIU in that really deep linebacking year in two eighteen. But you know, just to echo everything you were saying there. Yes, size, speed, awareness, really good matchup coverage player, the zone instincts, good tackler not only in space but in a phone booth between the tackles. The number one treat I had written down highlighted underlying bulded was the ability to beat blocks with his hands. Ye, that's against tight ends, pulling guards, tackles, fevers. He had long arms, he shoots them, tight will stack in shed and I love that ability. You have to be able to fight for yourself. In the NFL, we see so many linebackers in college with free access, free lanes to ball carriers, and then they blow up the ball carry in the backfield and flex on everybody. Those players do nothing for me, frand you're going to get guards up on you in the box. You have to be able to fight for yourself, create that space, get off of blocks, and still be a player to drag down that ball carrier. So echoing everything you've said about him, some of the issues high pad level. At times, sometimes he would take tackle tackles a little high, a bit of an arm tackler. Some I violations and again just kind of question that balance of overall athleticism versus overall play strength. He was two thirty five, but didn't look like he really had that core bulk, more of a lower body strength guy, long arms that I just worry he might not have that strength in the core and upstairs there. But just turning this back to that two as an eighteen group friend and put you on the spot here, if we had to do a redraft, not a full draft, but a redraft of the linebackers between you know, uh, Tremaine Edmonds, vander Esh for Sean Evans, Darius Leonard, Roquan Smith. Where does Fred Warner fit into the pecking order back? I think I'm taking him tops of that group, but it would be I think it would be if I had to go in order, I think I would go Warner, Darius Leonard. Maybe. I guess I'd probably Tremaine Edmonds after that, and then Layton, then Layton vander Layton Vanderesh after that. Just because of the injury. I think that's the injuries have been tough to evaluate. Vander Esh he's the one that ain't nowhere. But I thought Warner one, Darius Leonard two was pretty set in stone on my sheet as well. Yeah, it's it's it's a really really good group um certainly in twenty eighteen, and that's reflecting back on it after fifteen three years of all these players not saying that was our pecking order at the time. Obviously Roquan was pretty bona fide linebacker one. Uh, you know, so no issues there, you have no question. Hey listen, the other big thing and we didn't really talk about this at the top with Warner, the reason why it's so important in this game, and we really highlighted this this week and Eagles game plan, you know, talk about like going in with with the Eagles as banged up as they are, you know, Zach Ertz, Miles Sanders, greg Ward, guys that if they're gonna be impacts here in the passing game for Carson Wentz, those are the guys are going to rely on with these injuries to Jalen Raager and you don't know what the deal is with the Shawan Jackson at this point, and Dalla Scoddard obviously out of the lineup. You need those guys and those are all players that Fred Warner has the ablity to impact because of the way that he plays in coverage. He can make plays on backs, he can make plays on slot receivers, he can make plays on tight ends. So that's why he's such an important player to discuss going into this game, because he's the player that you have to have circles and you have to have an idea of where he is on every single snap if you're dropping back to pass. Yeah. Absolutely, And I just love that Fred Warner is a through and through a three down linebacker. And just one last note on his rook campaign, only three players played a thousand snaps as a rookie defensively Derwin James in that incredible rookie year. I think there's an All Pro safety Jesse Bates who we covered last week profile, and Fred Warner. So the fact to show up as a rookie, third round pick, thousand snaps, never coming off the field, three down linebacker, the production right off the bat was really really impressive. Yeah, there's a bunch of really impressive coverage plays of Fred Warner and Eagles game plan this week. Greg Coselt did a great job breaking that down. Ben and I were trying to narrow it down to like one or two plays and we're watching, We're like, we can't here rid of any of these. We're throwing them all. So, Greg, what was like the surface statement we had coming away from some of those plays? What did I just keep saying after we saw the play? He understands what he understands how the offense is trying to attack them on any given play because he knows and we talked about this earlier with offenses, right, the offense knows, Okay, this is the you know, a defense knows, Hey, if they line up in this set, this is you know what they're gonna try and do. He knows on every single play. Hey, we're playing cover two. They know we're gonna be playing cover two. How are they going to try and attack Cover two? They're probably gonna run. You know this concept or that concept. And if I see at the snap this initial movement, I'm running to the catchpoint and he's that he is always around the football and that it goes back to that without questions. It was a really good point on your part. Well, Ben, this was fun, man, It's gonna be a fun matchup. We'll be breaking it all down next week here on the Eagle Line the Sky Podcast with Greg Cosell and then you and I'm breaking down Eagle Steelers a week from now. Thanks very much for joining us once again on the Eagle Line the Sky Podcast Field by Gatorade. Before we continue with this episode, I've got a question for you. Do you know that four years ago one hundred million eligible voters did not participate in the general election. That's the same size as the entire US television audience for the Super Bowl. That is crazy. That is way too insanely high, and it's something that we as a country need to fix. Important decisions that affect all of our lives are made not just by the presidential election, but by our local and state elections as well. So if you don't vote, then those decisions that affect you every single day, they're gonna be made by voters who may not share of the same values and opinions that you do in those priorities that you do. So if you don't vote, you give away your voice, you give away your power. It is so easy to get registered to vote if you're not already. It's just as easy to double check to make sure that you're registered to vote. And I know because I just did it this weekend, just a few days ago. All I did was text Eagles eg L S to two six seven nine seven and you can either register to vote right there or you can check your registration status. It is so easy, it's really fast, and most of all, it's extremely important. Please it's all of our civic duty to make sure that all of our voices are heard. Get out and vote on November third. Great stuff from Betton, who you could follow on Twitter, just like I do at Ben Fennel Underscore We're NFL and why You're at it. I'm at Eagles Exos. That's where I post all the podcasts. I'm a part of it, all of our x's nose content that we produced at Philadelphi Eagles dot com. And you know, I greatly appreciate everybody that promotes this podcast on all forms of social media. That's one way to support the show. But the other way is to go onto Apple Podcasts or Stitcher, leave us a rating or leave us a comment. I wanted to give a shout out to somebody who did exactly that. Football matt O seven eight four left a five star review saying how much they love the breakdowns and all the guests that we bring on the show every single week. Matt thank you so much for your rating, Thanks so much for the comment, Thanks you for your support and being a longtime listener. Real quick, before we wrapped up this show, I told you I was gonna catch up with Eagles defensive tackle Javon Hargrave. Let's get to that interview right now. We welcome to our Bob's disc Out one on one. Really really excited to welcome in Eagles defensive tackle Javon Hargrave. Javon, thanks for joining me today. Man, no problem, I'm happy to be here. So let's talk about you as an athlete, and I want to get back to young Javon Hargrave as a kid. What was your first love in terms of like playing sports? What what did you what did you like playing most grown up? Well, I was big on basketball. You know, Um, basketball is kind of the first thing you can play growing up because football you gotta start in the third grade, and basketball you started Kenny guard in first grade and things like that. So basketball was kind of my first love. And you know, I had dreams aspirations of being in the NBA before the NFL. You had a big high school career, right. I had read that you had turned your your high school team. I think you guys went you had like seven wins your sophomore year and you go to the state title your senior year. What was that like? Yeah, that was a transition. Transition my bad. But we had a we had a new coach, new players come in, a couple of young guys could trip in, and I don't know, we we struggled my sophomore year. Then a lot of us just grew up and got it rolling my senior year and ended up making a run to win the state championship. A lot of you know, you talk with, you know, whether they're college coaches recruiting high school players. As you talk with college or NFL scouts when they're looking at college offensive lineman, defensive lineman, you're looking with the big guys with the basketball background, or are there some of those things that you've carried with you from the hardwood to the gridiron. I think my quickness of me and some of my moves I do I believe came from basketball, you know, like defensive slides and just moving with some of the quicker guys. Kind of got my feet right. Some of my like my uncle he used to tell me all the time, don't quit basketball because basketball is gonna benefit for me for football. So that was kind of my thing. I've seen you work that eurostep in a little bit. I remember you had a sack against Jacksonville a couple of years ago where you like you stopped outside and you were able to cross face and get on the edge of the guard you got. You bring a little bit of that to the game for sure. Yeah, it's like gonna crossover. Did you have handles or you more like, you know, back to the basket. No, I ain't had to have those. I did. I was mostly back to the basket. I could drill a little bit, but I went out there trying to cross nobody over. So going to football, when did you know you're gonna be a defensive lineman? Was it like a media like as soon as you started playing? Man, it's crazy because defensive line always came easy to me. But of course growing up, I wanted to play running back or I wanted to play linebacker. But I remember, like just fourth grade, I was getting off the ball and just running past everybody, make it tackles. But I go back and try to be running back in middle school and it wasn't really working out. Then I think in high school I went back to defensive line and it just took off from there. Did they only play on one side or there were you able to play two ways? I was playing two ways in high school. I played, I played ball, I did. I ran the ball I did. I wouldn't let him putting me on the offensive line. I couldn't stand the offensive line. But I played a little tight end and running back and just defensive line. So you go to South Carolina State and you have a great career. There was a huge game, but we've got was it six sacks against Bethunica. Yeah, it was. So I read an interview you did where you said that that was a game that changed your life and really kind of put you on the radar. If you just talk about that and why that was such a big moment for you. I think, um, that year, I was having a great year and I was just coming off like a mcl sprain or something like that. And I didn't even start that game. I was coming out the bench, and you know, just not even knowing if I was gonna play a lot that game, and I don't know, I just end up getting like two or three in the first half and it took off from there. And after that, I had all the scouts coming in my school and it just kind of started blowing me up. You went to the Shrine Bowl, you had you had a big week down there. You went. I believe you were you were a late addition to the Senior Bowl as well. Right, what was that whole experience like leading up, because obviously you go to the Shrine, you're maybe like kind of feeling like you're under the radar. Then you go to the Senior Bowl. Did things? Did you kind of feel like the momentum was starting to build for you? Yeah? It was. It was. It was the greatest fan just trying to you know, coming from a small school to starting to play against all these big boys. But like the Shrine Bowl, it was great. Um, I killed that and I think I came to the Your Bowl and it's like I've seen how to speed just kind of change from you know, playing in a smaller level and going to the big boys. But it made me adjusting catch up and rose to the occasion rods to the level. So I believe you were named the spring as by the NFLPA as the top player from an HBCU in the in the NFL. What does that mean to you when you're one of the top players in the league coming from the HPCU, um, you know and all those schools, what does that mean for you? Deestly, that's a great feeling. Like I just remember coming out I was. I was at that same banquet with like Doug Williams in them, and they were just telling me I had to kind of carry the tradition tradition and if I did bad, it was gonna make everybody else look bad. So I always kind of try to carry that chip on my shoulder. And I just love this. Uh. I just love my HBCUs and love probably know everybody who came from HBCU. So we got some dolls. I was and it was a real exciting moment when I won the award. I mean, some of the best players in NFL history and certainly some of the best players in the league right now. Did you cross over with Darius Leonard with the culture you guys in there together, Yeah, that's my boy. Yeah, we used to compete like crazy. We played two years together. Okay, well two or three. Well he was there three years with me, but we played two years together. But Yeah, that's my boy who used to get down together. I believe it. Let me ask this question, So, Dean Sanders, obviously a huge name, gets named head coach of Jackson State. Does that help you in your mind, like put HBCUs even on the map for in terms of like college, high school recruiting and trying to get some of those best players to get back into the HBC level. Yeah, that's that's crazy because we were just talking about that in the locker room, just how much that might change the culture. And of course who who's the dB, A big time dB who wouldn't want to go and play for Dan Sandor So I think you're gonna start to see a lot of big names start the transition because, like you say, it doesn't really matter where you go, you can still make it to the NFA just off of all the talent we got in the league right now. So I think that's that's a big move for HBCUs, no question. I'm excited to see what that means for them moving forward into the future. Last question for you, what's one element of playing defensive line that you know, us on the outside, fans media, we don't necessarily think about, but you know, you know that it's really really important and it's key to your success. It's get off man, especially playing in this system right now, is getting off the ball. That's been a big thing from you know, just coming from why I failed, just being able to beat everybody off the ball. So yeah, if you don't know, just look at the fastest person getting off the ball and that's a that's a big thing. Well, no question. Well, Jayvon, thank you so much man for joining me. Stay safe, stay healthy, best of luck here the Sunday. I appreciate you, Thank you. Thanks so much to jay Von and all of you out there for your continued support of this show and all the rest of our podcast offerings on Philadelphiagles dot com. All that being said, I think that I'll do it another show in the books here on the Eagle Line, the sky podcas Cast fueled by Gatorade for everybody here at the Novocare Complex. I am fran Duffy. We'll talk to you next week.
