00:00:02
Speaker 1: Welcome to desperately devoted Think of us as your favorite neighbors as we chat about life and relationships.
00:00:08
Speaker 2: All while we revisit the iconic show Desperate Housewives together.
00:00:11
Speaker 1: I'm Terry Hatcher, I'm Andrea Bowen, and I'm Emerson Tony. Well, we're back and we're here to continue talking about episode twenty. And actually, you know this aired at the beginning of May, which is also when a very famous cover of all of us girls on Vanity Fair magazine came out in that first week of May, and I thought this was crazy. So that was a very iconic photo by a pool, all of us in bathing suits looking fabulous. And just the other week, the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City did a copy of our photo for the cover of US magazine to promote their show, and down to the tea, like one of the women was wearing a red bathing suit like me, one of the women was wearing a black bathing suit and lying across on a lounge chair like Eva was. I mean, it was exactly the same foot And I just know we're here doing this podcast partly because the show continues to be relevant to a certain group of people and new generations of people seem to be enjoying it. But isn't that crazy that this this image from pop culture was I guess significant enough that a show that's actually on the air right now uses it to promote their show.
00:01:40
Speaker 3: It's amazing. I mean, it's it's it's actually very cool that the show has maintained this type of relevance. But also we've noted that there's a little there's an obvious tie in between the Real Housewives franchise and Desperate Housewives, and so I sort of love that they just went full let's let yeah.
00:02:00
Speaker 1: Let's just do it. Do you have an all time favorite house? Real house Oh my gosh, because I know what you'd say if I asked you your all time favorite house. Well, that's right, no, no, no answer.
00:02:13
Speaker 3: I am a big sonya Morgan fan, I love me some Dunda, which is a reference to the show for this.
00:02:26
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:02:26
Speaker 1: But I mean, really, then, you guys have I've heard It's not like one I've heard is supposed to be really good. It is.
00:02:34
Speaker 3: It's really good because they're all bold and and and they put it all out there and it's just h.
00:02:42
Speaker 1: Well, that makes sense why they did the cover because we were bold and put it all out there.
00:02:46
Speaker 2: I was going to say, yeah, and you're all You're all by a pool in the cover. And here we are at the end of episode twenty buy a pool again.
00:02:55
Speaker 3: Yes, this time by Gabby and Carlos's pool in their backyard.
00:02:59
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:03:00
Speaker 2: I had a wildly large fiesta party to go.
00:03:06
Speaker 1: Away going to prison y you know, as one does.
00:03:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, full of drama, full of Gabby slapping Carlos in the face and realizing he's been tampering with her birth control, full of so many things.
00:03:16
Speaker 3: Brion George end up in the pool because Rex pushes George into the pool.
00:03:19
Speaker 2: And he takes Bree down with him, which I feel like that's gonna pay off more.
00:03:24
Speaker 3: Ali breaks up with Zach.
00:03:26
Speaker 2: Well, that's what I wanted to get to. Yes, Julie breaks up with Zach and I find it interesting because at the beginning of episode twenty, Julie says to Susan God, I've been trying to break up with him for so long. Yeah, and you even said when we were talking about it that you, as an actor, like, didn't even remember how significant this storyline was between Julie and Zach. And I think that is probably because Julie was not particularly present or significantly invested in the relationship with Zach. It's such a one sided I mean when we see that final of how Zach has like all these images of Julie up on his wall a camera, I know I would a borderline obsession. Have you ever found yourself in a dynamic that was a maybe initially a romantic relationship that then you realized very quickly you were on very different pages with the person than they were on with you. Or similarly, have you ever struggled to end a relationship like to you think it's been clear and and the other person doesn't, or you like it's hard to break up. Have you just turn that question back? Yeah, immediately, No, I just like as you were saying, and I was just like, oh, I wonder if you have I think I have. I have certainly been in a few relationships that I I'm one in particular is coming to mind where I feel like I knew for a long time that the relationship was not right for me, and that I had and I was compared to from well, this is the fascinating psychology of it. Like, I think I was transparent with the person I was dating at the time and told her and said, you know, I'm not ready for this committed of a relationship. I whatever like from the jump of our relationship, and I feel like she sort of strong armed like, well, I don't want to date casually into me being like well, I do still want to see each other, and so I sort of agreed to be in more of a committed relationship than I was ready for. Yeah, and that I mean from that very inception with someone who is a bit more like domineering personality. I felt for months in the relationship. I know this isn't right. I don't want to be in this, but I she had a hold on me. I really and I've never I've not since then or before then, ever experienced something quite like it. Maybe it's because it was the first woman that I like, seriously had a committed relationship with, a committed, romantic reallytionship with, and I think you're when you come out your first queer relationship often holds a lot of significance and a lot of fear around the idea of, well, if I'm finally feeling attracted to this person in a way that feels like how I am attracted to people, and if this relationship ends, will I ever feel that attraction to someone else. I think there was just like much more fear in ending that at the time. And obviously since then, I've gone on to be in other relationships and I don't have that feeling. But it was tough, and I remember when we finally did finally did break up, being like, I've tried to do this for a few months and now I have to really just do it. And I felt for Julie in this scene.
00:06:48
Speaker 3: You know, I do think Julie has done nothing wrong, Like I think it's totally okay that she has moved on and she's not interested in continuing this relationship, and I think that needs to be loud and clear respected. But I on the heels of obviously, we know that Paul has that horrifying line to Zach in this episode where he tells him that Julie could have anyone she wants and that he can't because he's not that special.
00:07:12
Speaker 2: I was like, yes, that's right, Julie, go off, you can have anyone you want.
00:07:16
Speaker 3: And then you know he is trying still with Julie and she's like, listen, I don't want to hang out with you. I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to date you. You know, she has been.
00:07:25
Speaker 1: Really weird when you get pushed into like having to be mean yes, yeah, because they just won't accept what you're saying. Yeah, trying to say it nicely, like letting them down gently, and they just won't let you.
00:07:39
Speaker 2: I've had someone in a breakup say to me before, just say you're not in love with me any like, like say you don't love me anymore.
00:07:48
Speaker 1: In what way were they trying to just actually say that?
00:07:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well I don't I don't know what they were trying to accomplish in that. I was trying to because I do hold a lot like you can have love for someone and not want to be in a relationship with them anymore. But I remember feeling like, God, that's so mean. But they were like, I need to hear you say I don't love you.
00:08:13
Speaker 1: Yeah. What they really needed was to somehow be able to position you as the villain so that it wasn't like so hard for them. I feel like the last the person that I broke up with that I still cared about, Like this thing you're talking about, I did so when you were still pretty young, like maybe seven or so, and the dating was getting to the point where the other person wanted it to be more serious, which then, of course was going to involve being in the house more and then you become more inclusive with your child. And I just couldn't do it. I just couldn't do that. And and I feel like the person did push me to be me because they they I didn't know how to break it off and be nice, because they just they just didn't want to accept where I was at. And in hindsight, what is really been interesting to me twenty years later, as I'd sort of done work on myself and like, looking back, you know, I was abused as a child and by my uncle, and it makes so much sense to me in hindsight that some unconscious part of me was never going to let a man that wasn't your father into our house. Like I don't think I knew it at the time, Like I wasn't purposefully walking around going well, I can't have a man that isn't Emerson's father in this house. But the discomfort that, just like on a cellular basis, lived in my body, I just don't think I was going to fall in love and have a relationship while you were still a child.
00:10:09
Speaker 2: You weren't able to let yourself do that.
00:10:11
Speaker 1: I don't think so.
00:10:11
Speaker 2: That's fascinating.
00:10:12
Speaker 1: I really don't think so.
00:10:13
Speaker 2: I've never heard you say it like that. That makes so much sense.
00:10:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes sense to me too.
00:10:17
Speaker 3: Just said, is such a proof of so much time that you have reflected on your life and your choices. And I mean, I think that's incredible. I'm curious how long, like when did you unpack that?
00:10:31
Speaker 1: Probably when Emerson was in college, okay, and I was beginning to be like an empty nester and really look at my surroundings alone in the house, and I think I was talking to a therapist and also understanding what are my hang ups with intimacy or trust or all of that that comes along with being a survivor. And I don't know, you know, when you're a busy mom and you're busy protecting your child, and you're busy focusing on lifting your child up and giving them every opportunity, and those are all the things that I was doing, along with making the money to support all of those things. There just wasn't I didn't have to look at it I didn't really have to question, you know, why am I not dating? Like why am I not letting myself fall in love with someone? You know, It wasn't really until after you went to college and then on upwards and onwards out with your adult life that I was sort of left with the space to go what happened there? Right? And I do find also that women are you know, self sufficient in terms of like I think men when they get out of marriages, like they do, tend to just get right back into you know, because like men need support systems, women are really good doing it by themselves. But you know, so there might have been a tiny bit of that too, But I'm honest with myself when I reflect on it, to look at that, and you know, it is what it is. I'm not sorry about.
00:11:59
Speaker 2: It, but well, you do what you can with the tools you have at the time that you have them.
00:12:03
Speaker 1: You know, is that something I said to you, because I feel like I've said that to.
00:12:06
Speaker 2: You probably something along those lines, but really to take it.
00:12:10
Speaker 1: That was one of my not bad parenting moments. No, I wasn't a bad parent.
00:12:14
Speaker 2: Now you're a good parent.
00:12:15
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for sharing that, Terry.
00:12:17
Speaker 1: Well, I hope it helps somebody. I mean, I hope you know all of our you know, but I kind of like laugh that off because I do believe what you said. Say that again, Uh, you.
00:12:27
Speaker 2: Do what you can with the tools you have at the time that you have them.
00:12:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that actually should be on a shirt because what hearing that deeply and sort of considering what that means is that we should all be giving ourselves a bigger break for what we haven't done right in the time that we did it. You know that that we might feel like, oh I could have done that better. I wish that had been different. And I really do think that that is true. You know, part of the joy of being human is growing and changing and learning and becoming better and and so you can't be mad at yourself about what you weren't able to do fifteen years ago because you didn't have the tools. Yeah.
00:13:17
Speaker 3: I think that's great advice. I think that's great advice for life. I think that's great advice when you're trying to get yourself out of a relationship and not knowing how to gracefully do that. And so thank you for adding another tool to my tool belt.
00:13:31
Speaker 1: TV Mom TV Mom, TV Mom.
00:13:34
Speaker 2: That's my favorite thing of it too. I'm jealous. I can't say it well, you get mom.
00:13:40
Speaker 1: Real mom. Okay, so this is TV Mom and real Mom saying goodbye and good luck.
00:13:45
Speaker 2: Now until next week.
00:13:48
Speaker 3: We will not be breaking up with you because we are desperately devoted to you
Speaker 1: Welcome to desperately devoted Think of us as your favorite neighbors as we chat about life and relationships.
00:00:08
Speaker 2: All while we revisit the iconic show Desperate Housewives together.
00:00:11
Speaker 1: I'm Terry Hatcher, I'm Andrea Bowen, and I'm Emerson Tony. Well, we're back and we're here to continue talking about episode twenty. And actually, you know this aired at the beginning of May, which is also when a very famous cover of all of us girls on Vanity Fair magazine came out in that first week of May, and I thought this was crazy. So that was a very iconic photo by a pool, all of us in bathing suits looking fabulous. And just the other week, the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City did a copy of our photo for the cover of US magazine to promote their show, and down to the tea, like one of the women was wearing a red bathing suit like me, one of the women was wearing a black bathing suit and lying across on a lounge chair like Eva was. I mean, it was exactly the same foot And I just know we're here doing this podcast partly because the show continues to be relevant to a certain group of people and new generations of people seem to be enjoying it. But isn't that crazy that this this image from pop culture was I guess significant enough that a show that's actually on the air right now uses it to promote their show.
00:01:40
Speaker 3: It's amazing. I mean, it's it's it's actually very cool that the show has maintained this type of relevance. But also we've noted that there's a little there's an obvious tie in between the Real Housewives franchise and Desperate Housewives, and so I sort of love that they just went full let's let yeah.
00:02:00
Speaker 1: Let's just do it. Do you have an all time favorite house? Real house Oh my gosh, because I know what you'd say if I asked you your all time favorite house. Well, that's right, no, no, no answer.
00:02:13
Speaker 3: I am a big sonya Morgan fan, I love me some Dunda, which is a reference to the show for this.
00:02:26
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:02:26
Speaker 1: But I mean, really, then, you guys have I've heard It's not like one I've heard is supposed to be really good. It is.
00:02:34
Speaker 3: It's really good because they're all bold and and and they put it all out there and it's just h.
00:02:42
Speaker 1: Well, that makes sense why they did the cover because we were bold and put it all out there.
00:02:46
Speaker 2: I was going to say, yeah, and you're all You're all by a pool in the cover. And here we are at the end of episode twenty buy a pool again.
00:02:55
Speaker 3: Yes, this time by Gabby and Carlos's pool in their backyard.
00:02:59
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:03:00
Speaker 2: I had a wildly large fiesta party to go.
00:03:06
Speaker 1: Away going to prison y you know, as one does.
00:03:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, full of drama, full of Gabby slapping Carlos in the face and realizing he's been tampering with her birth control, full of so many things.
00:03:16
Speaker 3: Brion George end up in the pool because Rex pushes George into the pool.
00:03:19
Speaker 2: And he takes Bree down with him, which I feel like that's gonna pay off more.
00:03:24
Speaker 3: Ali breaks up with Zach.
00:03:26
Speaker 2: Well, that's what I wanted to get to. Yes, Julie breaks up with Zach and I find it interesting because at the beginning of episode twenty, Julie says to Susan God, I've been trying to break up with him for so long. Yeah, and you even said when we were talking about it that you, as an actor, like, didn't even remember how significant this storyline was between Julie and Zach. And I think that is probably because Julie was not particularly present or significantly invested in the relationship with Zach. It's such a one sided I mean when we see that final of how Zach has like all these images of Julie up on his wall a camera, I know I would a borderline obsession. Have you ever found yourself in a dynamic that was a maybe initially a romantic relationship that then you realized very quickly you were on very different pages with the person than they were on with you. Or similarly, have you ever struggled to end a relationship like to you think it's been clear and and the other person doesn't, or you like it's hard to break up. Have you just turn that question back? Yeah, immediately, No, I just like as you were saying, and I was just like, oh, I wonder if you have I think I have. I have certainly been in a few relationships that I I'm one in particular is coming to mind where I feel like I knew for a long time that the relationship was not right for me, and that I had and I was compared to from well, this is the fascinating psychology of it. Like, I think I was transparent with the person I was dating at the time and told her and said, you know, I'm not ready for this committed of a relationship. I whatever like from the jump of our relationship, and I feel like she sort of strong armed like, well, I don't want to date casually into me being like well, I do still want to see each other, and so I sort of agreed to be in more of a committed relationship than I was ready for. Yeah, and that I mean from that very inception with someone who is a bit more like domineering personality. I felt for months in the relationship. I know this isn't right. I don't want to be in this, but I she had a hold on me. I really and I've never I've not since then or before then, ever experienced something quite like it. Maybe it's because it was the first woman that I like, seriously had a committed relationship with, a committed, romantic reallytionship with, and I think you're when you come out your first queer relationship often holds a lot of significance and a lot of fear around the idea of, well, if I'm finally feeling attracted to this person in a way that feels like how I am attracted to people, and if this relationship ends, will I ever feel that attraction to someone else. I think there was just like much more fear in ending that at the time. And obviously since then, I've gone on to be in other relationships and I don't have that feeling. But it was tough, and I remember when we finally did finally did break up, being like, I've tried to do this for a few months and now I have to really just do it. And I felt for Julie in this scene.
00:06:48
Speaker 3: You know, I do think Julie has done nothing wrong, Like I think it's totally okay that she has moved on and she's not interested in continuing this relationship, and I think that needs to be loud and clear respected. But I on the heels of obviously, we know that Paul has that horrifying line to Zach in this episode where he tells him that Julie could have anyone she wants and that he can't because he's not that special.
00:07:12
Speaker 2: I was like, yes, that's right, Julie, go off, you can have anyone you want.
00:07:16
Speaker 3: And then you know he is trying still with Julie and she's like, listen, I don't want to hang out with you. I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to date you. You know, she has been.
00:07:25
Speaker 1: Really weird when you get pushed into like having to be mean yes, yeah, because they just won't accept what you're saying. Yeah, trying to say it nicely, like letting them down gently, and they just won't let you.
00:07:39
Speaker 2: I've had someone in a breakup say to me before, just say you're not in love with me any like, like say you don't love me anymore.
00:07:48
Speaker 1: In what way were they trying to just actually say that?
00:07:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well I don't I don't know what they were trying to accomplish in that. I was trying to because I do hold a lot like you can have love for someone and not want to be in a relationship with them anymore. But I remember feeling like, God, that's so mean. But they were like, I need to hear you say I don't love you.
00:08:13
Speaker 1: Yeah. What they really needed was to somehow be able to position you as the villain so that it wasn't like so hard for them. I feel like the last the person that I broke up with that I still cared about, Like this thing you're talking about, I did so when you were still pretty young, like maybe seven or so, and the dating was getting to the point where the other person wanted it to be more serious, which then, of course was going to involve being in the house more and then you become more inclusive with your child. And I just couldn't do it. I just couldn't do that. And and I feel like the person did push me to be me because they they I didn't know how to break it off and be nice, because they just they just didn't want to accept where I was at. And in hindsight, what is really been interesting to me twenty years later, as I'd sort of done work on myself and like, looking back, you know, I was abused as a child and by my uncle, and it makes so much sense to me in hindsight that some unconscious part of me was never going to let a man that wasn't your father into our house. Like I don't think I knew it at the time, Like I wasn't purposefully walking around going well, I can't have a man that isn't Emerson's father in this house. But the discomfort that, just like on a cellular basis, lived in my body, I just don't think I was going to fall in love and have a relationship while you were still a child.
00:10:09
Speaker 2: You weren't able to let yourself do that.
00:10:11
Speaker 1: I don't think so.
00:10:11
Speaker 2: That's fascinating.
00:10:12
Speaker 1: I really don't think so.
00:10:13
Speaker 2: I've never heard you say it like that. That makes so much sense.
00:10:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes sense to me too.
00:10:17
Speaker 3: Just said, is such a proof of so much time that you have reflected on your life and your choices. And I mean, I think that's incredible. I'm curious how long, like when did you unpack that?
00:10:31
Speaker 1: Probably when Emerson was in college, okay, and I was beginning to be like an empty nester and really look at my surroundings alone in the house, and I think I was talking to a therapist and also understanding what are my hang ups with intimacy or trust or all of that that comes along with being a survivor. And I don't know, you know, when you're a busy mom and you're busy protecting your child, and you're busy focusing on lifting your child up and giving them every opportunity, and those are all the things that I was doing, along with making the money to support all of those things. There just wasn't I didn't have to look at it I didn't really have to question, you know, why am I not dating? Like why am I not letting myself fall in love with someone? You know, It wasn't really until after you went to college and then on upwards and onwards out with your adult life that I was sort of left with the space to go what happened there? Right? And I do find also that women are you know, self sufficient in terms of like I think men when they get out of marriages, like they do, tend to just get right back into you know, because like men need support systems, women are really good doing it by themselves. But you know, so there might have been a tiny bit of that too, But I'm honest with myself when I reflect on it, to look at that, and you know, it is what it is. I'm not sorry about.
00:11:59
Speaker 2: It, but well, you do what you can with the tools you have at the time that you have them.
00:12:03
Speaker 1: You know, is that something I said to you, because I feel like I've said that to.
00:12:06
Speaker 2: You probably something along those lines, but really to take it.
00:12:10
Speaker 1: That was one of my not bad parenting moments. No, I wasn't a bad parent.
00:12:14
Speaker 2: Now you're a good parent.
00:12:15
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for sharing that, Terry.
00:12:17
Speaker 1: Well, I hope it helps somebody. I mean, I hope you know all of our you know, but I kind of like laugh that off because I do believe what you said. Say that again, Uh, you.
00:12:27
Speaker 2: Do what you can with the tools you have at the time that you have them.
00:12:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that actually should be on a shirt because what hearing that deeply and sort of considering what that means is that we should all be giving ourselves a bigger break for what we haven't done right in the time that we did it. You know that that we might feel like, oh I could have done that better. I wish that had been different. And I really do think that that is true. You know, part of the joy of being human is growing and changing and learning and becoming better and and so you can't be mad at yourself about what you weren't able to do fifteen years ago because you didn't have the tools. Yeah.
00:13:17
Speaker 3: I think that's great advice. I think that's great advice for life. I think that's great advice when you're trying to get yourself out of a relationship and not knowing how to gracefully do that. And so thank you for adding another tool to my tool belt.
00:13:31
Speaker 1: TV Mom TV Mom, TV Mom.
00:13:34
Speaker 2: That's my favorite thing of it too. I'm jealous. I can't say it well, you get mom.
00:13:40
Speaker 1: Real mom. Okay, so this is TV Mom and real Mom saying goodbye and good luck.
00:13:45
Speaker 2: Now until next week.
00:13:48
Speaker 3: We will not be breaking up with you because we are desperately devoted to you
