What to Expect When Anxious and Fearful Avoidant Start to Heal

WEBVTT
00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:01.199
All right.
00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:06.799
Welcome to your next episode of Decoding Attachment Styles.
00:00:06.959 --> 00:00:09.839
Surprise, surprise, I am not Annalisa.
00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:22.800
My name is Marta, and I have decided to team up with Annalisa to support her in her wonderful work of figuring out what it is that people are doing in relationships.
00:00:22.960 --> 00:00:28.800
And I have tagged a great friend of mine, Duncan, to join us as well.
00:00:29.039 --> 00:00:32.000
So I'll allow Duncan to introduce himself.
00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:42.640
Hi, I'm uh I'm Duncan, and I'm going to be joining Lisa and Marta on this podcast as we decode attachment styles or at least it's into.
00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:45.759
So let's go.
00:00:46.159 --> 00:00:46.719
Perfect.
00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:51.600
So I myself am a fearful avoidant on a journey to becoming secure.
00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:56.719
I'm pretty sure I'm like 99.9% there, depending on a day.
00:00:57.119 --> 00:00:58.240
How about you, Duncan?
00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:00.000
What is your attachment style?
00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:02.560
I'm anxiously attached.
00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:06.400
Getting healed, getting more secure.
00:01:06.560 --> 00:01:13.359
And I guess that's what we're going to be discussing today is how we actually achieve that, or at least attempt to.
00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:22.560
And if I may jump in now, hi guys, for those of you who've been following me for a while on Decoding Attachment Style, you already know who I am.
00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:34.319
I've decided to bring in these two lovely people who I've worked with and who I can attest to have become really way more secure than they first started out.
00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:37.680
They've done work on themselves prior to working with me.
00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:48.640
So yes, they are secure, securely attached enough and have enough tools to help you work on your attachment style.
00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:54.719
They'll do exactly what I've been doing, pass on the tools and strategies that I use in my practice to help you guys as well.
00:01:54.879 --> 00:02:04.400
But we've decided to do this first podcast together as an introduction so you have a better idea of where they're coming from and what they can offer you.
00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:06.480
And they'll share a little bit about their journey.
00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:08.159
So thank you for joining.
00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:12.800
If you haven't yet done so, please subscribe and don't forget to share this with your friends.
00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:15.439
Attachment theory has really popped off.
00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:17.439
People really want to understand themselves.
00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:23.759
And the podcast is number 26 on attachment theory, the top 26.
00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:27.199
So yeah, it seemed like you know it's it's been helpful to people.
00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:38.479
So you want to get on that bandwagon and get your pen, your paper out, jot down notes, because that that's one fast way of uh fast tracking your your healing process.
00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:40.319
So I'm going to start with Duncan.
00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:48.159
Duncan, you mentioned that you you were more anxious attached, you've been working on your healing more securely attached, which is very similar to my journey.
00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:53.199
So I started off as an anxiously attached person and now uh being secure.
00:02:53.439 --> 00:03:06.240
I think one of the questions people ask is do you lose your sense of care community when you've healed?
00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:10.960
Because there's this fear that when I heal, I'm not gonna care.
00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:13.520
When I heal, I'm just gonna become numb.
00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:14.719
And it's it's a scary thing.
00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:16.159
Have you experienced that?
00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:17.280
No.
00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:20.479
Short answer, no, no, not at all.
00:03:21.680 --> 00:03:30.639
So I'm I'm still, yeah, I still have the same kind of emotional range there of like caring and etc.
00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:34.560
And my brain's gone off attention now immediately.
00:03:34.960 --> 00:03:37.120
Yeah, I haven't lost that sense at all.
00:03:37.520 --> 00:03:39.039
Not at all.
00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:48.479
I I I can appreciate why that might be a fear 100% that you would go numb and just become vacant almost, but but no, not at all.
00:03:48.639 --> 00:04:04.560
It's more about recognizing where you put that attention, where you put that care, and how much of it you give and who you give it to, and what circumstances, and you know, be a bit more precious about who you're giving it to and think about it.
00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:08.879
Can I add on to that a little bit?
00:04:09.039 --> 00:04:15.520
I think in in regards to care, it's also about not forgetting to give that care to yourself, right?
00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:21.759
And that's a big one, and I think that's a big one with both fearful avoidance and anxiously attached.
00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:24.000
We tend to that's the one we forget about.
00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:24.800
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:42.560
We tend to leave ourselves behind and and put our partner first, or or we think we are, but at the end of the day, we're actually not putting them first by putting them ahead of us, because now we can't deliver on the level that we want to deliver, and that's not what our partners want from us, really.
00:04:42.879 --> 00:04:45.360
No, because then you're just in the realms of people pleasing again.
00:04:46.480 --> 00:05:00.560
Now I'm gonna be devil's advocate here with you, Marta, because somebody listening to that and they just heard you say that you're fearful avoidant, or you come from that attachment style, they're gonna say, Well, fearful avoidance are generally selfish, so it just sounds selfish.
00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:02.480
How would you address that?
00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:04.399
Yeah, how would you address that?
00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:09.199
Well, I mean, first of all, you guys know me well enough to know that is beyond not true.
00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:11.120
It's not true, I can confirm.
00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:12.639
Thank you.
00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:14.639
Uh, I did not pay him to say that.
00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:18.959
Although that care package is going across the ocean one day.
00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:32.959
No, I I think it's just we're so scared to lose ourselves and our relationships that we're trying to hold on to to that little seed of ourselves, that little, that little heart that's there.
00:05:33.040 --> 00:05:38.800
And and we're scared that if if I do X, Y, Z, then I will just disappear, right?
00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:51.759
That let's say my partner's family just will eat me alive, not physically, obviously, but then I'll just be assimilated, disappear, and and me as a person will no longer be there, which is again not true.
00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:57.759
So then we try to defend that little bit of autonomy that we have, right?
00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:13.519
And and sometimes it can come across as selfish, but that is literally coming from a place of I am so petrified that if I don't protect little space, I'll disappear and I'll be gone as the person that I am.
00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:16.560
Like I will simply cease to exist as I am.
00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:18.879
Follow-up question to that.
00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:22.560
What has changed for you as you healed?
00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:25.120
Well, I haven't disappeared.
00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:27.920
So I haven't ceased to exist.
00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:32.480
I feel like I am better.
00:06:32.720 --> 00:06:42.480
I'm not in a relationship right now, but I feel like I would be a much better partner now, understanding where I'm coming from or and where those triggers are coming from.
00:06:42.720 --> 00:06:46.079
I'm no longer scared of somebody else's family.
00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:49.839
I look forward to that becoming part of that family, right?
00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:58.959
Without disappearing and kind of having boundaries, because I think for me personally, setting boundaries is beyond difficult.
00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:01.120
It still is work in progress.
00:07:01.439 --> 00:07:03.279
It has always been difficult.
00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:08.560
I think the only people that I was pretty good at that was my my close family, right?
00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:09.759
My siblings, my parents.
00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:12.639
But again, like I have decades of practice with that.
00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:24.959
But when it comes to partnerships and new people coming into my life, that people pleasing kicks in, and you feel like if if you set boundaries, then you're not fully available and you're not your best self.
00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:47.519
So learning to set boundaries and realizing that this is the best way I can offer them to be part of said new family or relationship, it really has transformed my life in regards to my professional life, because I can stand up for myself better without being defensive, but just being straightforward.
00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:52.720
And I do believe that's how I will be able to present in the future relationships as well.
00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:53.439
Okay.
00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:55.839
Duncan, you on boundaries.
00:07:56.000 --> 00:07:58.720
We've had we we know we know that.
00:07:59.120 --> 00:07:59.439
Boundaries.
00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:03.279
Can you spell it for me?
00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:04.560
I'll Google it for you.
00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:06.240
Let me Google it for you real quick.
00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:08.000
Yeah, for you and me both know.
00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:11.920
Yeah, I well, that's that is one of the things that overlaps, isn't it?
00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:14.000
Is uh is the common theme there.
00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:17.680
Yeah, I've always been historically bad with boundaries.
00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:22.079
With with we keep, you know, it's a buzzword people pleasing, but it's true.
00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:32.559
You know, it becomes from that place of wanting to be liked, and if you are not useful, if you can't, if you don't serve a purpose, then well, good of you to that person.
00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:34.960
It's that it's that core fit.
00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:49.360
What I I guess I I recognize it more in like friendships and work relationships now, where I don't just jump to attention and make sure everything's done and everyone's happy because you know, and avoid the difficult conversations, avoid the conflict.
00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:54.720
Now it's a case of I'll kind of stop a little bit and go, Do I need to do that?
00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:58.559
Because they're more than capable of doing that, and that's just gonna annoy me.
00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:02.399
And then I'm gonna build resentment, and that's what happens.
00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:16.559
Resentment builds because it goes back to like taking care of yourself and putting your putting your needs first, not well, putting your needs as uh some sort of priority, says the anxiously attached man.
00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:52.799
Um yeah, so it's it's catching I find a catch myself and before I wouldn't have I'd have just gone on autopilot and done these things, and and then you anxiety would build because you you they you're also then waiting for almost the acknowledgement that you did a good thing, and yeah, and now I I recognize that's not how I'm supposed to act, whether people like me or not, is not dependent on whether I serve a particular purpose, especially if it doesn't serve me.
00:09:54.000 --> 00:10:00.879
You remember that that moment when the switch went off, and you're like, I can't do this anymore.
00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:03.200
I've got to learn how to set boundaries.
00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:04.559
Almost.
00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:12.399
I could I can't remember a specific moment, but I know it happened probably probably at the start of this year, I would say.
00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:18.879
There was the I just recognize a difference in in the boundary setting, yeah.
00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:22.240
Can you share a little bit about that without naming names?
00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:24.080
No.
00:10:25.919 --> 00:10:32.720
Um, I I think it really is, it's more to do with I recognized it more on my day-to-day at work.
00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:37.519
That's where it started, that's where I started to set those boundaries.
00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:47.360
Because I know historically that has caused me problems with work relationships, and that had been a big source of anxiety for me.
00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:53.200
So, yeah, although you know we we are predominantly focusing on romantic relationships.
00:10:53.360 --> 00:11:15.679
I think if if someone's having the trouble setting boundaries in romantic relationships, then it might be a bit easier to start thinking about it in your other relationships where it's not so outcome-dependent, not so not so critical as it would be in your romantic relationship at home.
00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:29.279
If you can start doing these things in other areas of your life, where it's perhaps with your family, with an overbearing parent who's just wants to call or call call all the time, and previously you just answer the phone, you just answer the phone.
00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:33.600
Now you you know you you might say, Yeah, I can't talk right now, I'll give you a call after work.
00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:40.879
That kind of thing, get into the practice that way to then do the harder stuff where it's your actual romantic partner.
00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:47.840
Well, I mean, I also like to remind us that uh attachment style doesn't switch on and off.
00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:50.240
You know, you are it depends.
00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:53.200
Whoever disrespects you, you are going to be triggered.
00:11:53.279 --> 00:12:05.759
It doesn't necessarily have to be a romantic partner, so you can't set boundaries in one area of your life and expect the other areas to thrive.
00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:16.879
You you you only know how to be one individual in all circumstances, and that one individual can have different personalities, different personality traits.
00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:20.399
But the the anxious attachment doesn't switch on and off.
00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:28.720
It is when we are triggered in any particular situation, we are going to either be active or reactive.
00:12:29.440 --> 00:12:29.679
Right.
00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:40.799
So it doesn't, yeah, when I'm working with clients, if they come into me and they're like, oh, well, you know, we're no longer together or we are together and I don't know how to set boundaries.
00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:44.879
The first place you've got to do the boundary pyramid, which we'll talk about in another podcast.
00:12:45.039 --> 00:12:51.919
But it's the boundary pyramid where you set your priorities and you start to protect those based on how you feel.
00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:54.720
And in your boundary pyramid, you've got work there.
00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:56.639
You've got family, you've got friends, everybody.
00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:01.679
You've got to set boundaries with everyone because you're protecting a feeling within you.
00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:04.399
And that feeling can be triggered anywhere.
00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:04.879
Yeah.
00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:08.080
And you know, it's such a beautiful feeling in a way.
00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:20.080
It's it's kind of silly to say that, but obviously, as we're learning more and more, it's I came to realize that I did used to set boundaries, but it was very much in a reactive way.
00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:25.360
It wasn't like, hey, I'm gonna like build my little fence and be ready for the attack, whatever.
00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:31.759
No, it was like, holy smokes, this is happening, and I have allowed it to get to this point, right?
00:13:31.919 --> 00:13:34.639
I have allowed people to come and take and take and take.
00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:38.879
And then I hit a wall and I'm like, well, we're it's done.
00:13:38.960 --> 00:13:41.759
Here's the hard boundary and stuff like that.
00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:46.000
And and unfortunately, that's a bit of a just being up front.
00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:49.840
That's kind of, I feel how I've been with my family a lot, unfortunately.
00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:55.519
So that's something I need to still work on and maybe soften some of the boundaries, right?
00:13:55.919 --> 00:14:08.720
But I remember one particular event in my personal life, because with having difficulty setting boundaries comes difficulty of saying no, right?
00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:11.360
The inability of saying no to people.
00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:16.240
That's how I end up working overtime, that's how I end up doing things that I don't want to be doing.
00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:21.919
I'm doing 10 different things on a weekend that I'm not even interested in doing.
00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:32.240
And so I was in a relationship, and this person asked me something, and I just said, No, I'm not gonna do that.
00:14:32.399 --> 00:14:34.080
Whatever it was, I can't remember what it was.
00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:37.120
It was that was inconsequential.
00:14:37.440 --> 00:14:59.200
And that person was like, Well, darn, you like keep saying no, and I just kind of started crying, like, not I just kind of came out of me and I was like, You don't realize how much it took for me to say no, and how actually special it feels to feel comfortable with you to be able to say that.
00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:08.320
To me, that was like such a it sounds ridiculous, but it was such a wholesome experience because I felt comfortable with that person to say no to them.
00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:12.320
And he wasn't angry, like he we talked about it, right?
00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:15.679
And kind of had a little chat, but he wasn't angry that I said no.
00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:22.240
I was allowed to say no, obviously, and it worked out just fine in in that regard.
00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:25.759
Yeah, saying no, saying no is hard.
00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:27.279
It isn't it?
00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:29.679
It's just it's it's like just listening to you say that.
00:15:29.759 --> 00:15:31.600
I'm like, yeah, squirming a little bit.
00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:37.600
Yeah, you expect, I don't know, the lightning to come at you from the sky and just like fly you on the spot, right?
00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:47.919
Well, because no got us in trouble when we were kids, we weren't allowed to say no, and so now we're afraid that if we say no, people are not gonna like us.
00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:53.200
Well, not only that, but I think we expect everyone to abandon us, right?
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.320
Well, that's the not like from the childhood, yeah.
00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:58.320
Like, oh, you you don't you're saying no?
00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:00.320
That is so selfish, you're so mean.
00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:03.519
That's those are sharing your toys, yeah.
00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:25.519
Yeah, yeah, you're not sharing, you said no to it, and yeah, now you know we become adults and we're trying to sort through that boundary with self to say no, that's the hardest thing, and it is the reason, and we know this on a subconscious level, we know it is difficult.
00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:38.639
That is why many of us would rather spend our time, our effort, and energy trying to change our partner or trying to change someone else than learning how to say no, because we know that is the difficult part.
00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:46.240
I don't have to say no if my partner can just do what he what I want him to do, then I don't have to say no.
00:16:46.399 --> 00:16:51.919
I don't have to say I'm I'm not tolerating this, I'm leaving, because the leaving part is hard.
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:54.159
Yeah, right.
00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:04.240
No, no, no, they might see the volume.
00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:05.440
We're good.
00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:07.119
Cool.
00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:09.839
Yeah, it's I'm just getting like crackling this end.
00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:12.240
So as long as it's not on the feed, it's fine.
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:12.960
Oh no, we're good.
00:17:13.279 --> 00:17:14.240
We're good, we're fine.
00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:17.759
Yeah, what were you afraid that would happen?
00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:33.519
I mean, in in specific circumstances, or I think what I'm what I'm going back to is you said, Marta, you said it was such a relief to feel that safety and say to that person no, right?
00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:38.559
And then be received with what you grew up not expecting.
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:44.480
What what does that feel like?
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:46.319
Where where did that come from?
00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:49.359
It felt awesome.
00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:52.559
Like I legitimately remembered the whole thing, right?
00:17:52.640 --> 00:18:05.039
Because we were at a cabin and and I just kind of because I am a fearful avoidant after like the whole I said no, he said, Well, you keep saying no, and I was like, Well, reenactment.
00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:07.759
I then stepped outside, right?
00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:09.039
Because again, avoidant.
00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:09.759
I was like, you know what?
00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:12.240
I'm just gonna go outside for a minute, get some fresh air.
00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:14.559
And I just kind of sat there and cried.
00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:17.680
And he actually came outside and sat with me.
00:18:18.000 --> 00:18:20.079
I'm not gonna cry, I'm not gonna cry, I'm not gonna cry.
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:27.119
Uh and it just uh, you know, the whole being like being seen, heard, and understood, right?
00:18:27.279 --> 00:18:33.759
He didn't have to say anything, just him actually coming out and sitting next to me, that is all I needed.
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:38.400
That is all I needed, and it felt like it felt like home.
00:18:39.039 --> 00:18:43.920
You know mic drop.
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:57.359
I think I think we just actually saw your your your ability to shut off an emotion and focus on what needs to be focused on in real life.
00:18:57.519 --> 00:18:58.559
Did you see that, Duncan?
00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:04.240
She just went with not gonna cry, I'm not gonna cry, I'm not gonna cry, and then went back into action.
00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:06.319
I I think it's a superpower.
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:07.839
Absolute pro.
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:09.680
I think it's a superpower.
00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:14.799
I think it's like there's certain things as human beings that we've mastered that could be really helpful.
00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:17.759
And then, like you just said, I'm gonna cry after.
00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:21.759
Set aside the time for the emotions, but right now it's not for it.
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:25.200
I'm because it's with my background too, right?
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:28.799
I mean, working medical field, I can't, yeah.
00:19:29.119 --> 00:19:39.440
Yeah, that's definitely one of the things that that I find hard as well, is that whole, you know, not now, later, you know, because emotions they come up in me.
00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:46.079
I'm quite an emotional guy, and it comes up, and I find that very hard, especially with like the thought loops of elimination and everything.
00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:48.240
But I was actually going to ask, right?
00:19:48.480 --> 00:20:02.480
Because I've interacted with a good chunk of anxious attached individuals, and it seems that the shutting off because for me, I can obviously I'm still thinking about the story that I just told you and about the person that was a part of it.
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:08.640
It's literally in the back of like I can feel that thought in the back of my head, but it's I'm focusing on what I'm doing right now.
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:17.119
Whereas I feel like with the anxiously attached individuals, not that there's no ability, but that thought just takes over.
00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:19.599
Does you know what I mean?
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:24.880
So yeah, so how have you navigated that or have you?
00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:30.000
Or how do you like chop it up and to put it up away for later?
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:41.440
What is the thing is you chuck ADHD in the mix as well, and I see that it's it's like on steroids, it's yeah, it's it's it's it's a real thing.
00:20:42.480 --> 00:21:02.880
I guess I I mean, I guess my job allows me to you know, being a tattoo artist by trade, you kind of focused on something, and yeah, it might not come out physically, it might not physically show that emotion, but it's it's there, but I can kind of get away with that to a degree.
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:10.000
Which isn't always I don't think it's always helpful because it's allowed me, it's allowed that pattern to continue.
00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:17.039
If I was in a different like a different role where I am customer facing or person facing, can't do that.
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:24.079
You know, you you you have like like you said, in your profession as a nurse, you know, you you have to, you can't.
00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:26.160
So it's it's practice, isn't it?
00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:29.599
It's it's it is practice and recognition of the patterns.
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:33.359
Yeah, it's having to write tools, it's really having to write tools.
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:35.759
I mean, that was not my profession.
00:21:35.839 --> 00:21:39.440
I was a journalist, I was allowed to show emotions, right?
00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:43.920
Yeah, but it's and it wasn't like I I it wasn't uh you know, it's it's really funny.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:45.920
I'll I'll just uh sidetrack for a second.
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:49.680
Someone wrote me a letter a few years ago on Facebook.
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:59.759
They sent me a message and they said, I don't know if you remember me, but I remember when you were co hosting the morning show, I went into the the restroom.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:02.079
And you were there and you were crying.
00:22:02.160 --> 00:22:04.240
And you said, I asked you if you were okay.
00:22:04.319 --> 00:22:07.440
And you said, I'm not right now, but I will be.
00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:12.960
And those, those, the sentence, it took her, you know, whatever I said took her 30 years.
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:15.119
And that's what she wanted to share with me.
00:22:15.759 --> 00:22:18.319
So I was allowed to have those emotions.
00:22:18.400 --> 00:22:22.000
And then you have to say, okay, I can't handle this right now.
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:28.480
But it greatly affected me, even on that morning show, because I remember having phone calls after, and people asked, Are you okay?
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:30.400
You didn't seem like yourself.
00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:40.319
Now, the tools that I had to use as I was working on healing my attachment style is to set aside time for grief.
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:42.079
Those are emotions.
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:53.279
And those of you who know the work that I've been doing, I know Marta and Duncan, you know, I create these little human-like images in my head of what my emotions look like.
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:57.519
And recently we've had this movie Inside Out was very similar, right?
00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:07.119
And so, you know, sometimes there's sadness, and I could quickly conjure, and I am a creative person, I quickly conjure what sadness looks like.
00:23:07.200 --> 00:23:10.480
And I'll say to her, like, I get it, I get it, this sucks.
00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:12.400
Let's deal with this a little later.
00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:21.440
And set aside time, like really put into my calendar Annalisa's time, and then sit with it and go back to it.
00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:22.640
Okay, what were we feeling?
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:23.759
Why were we feeling this?
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:24.880
What can we learn from this?
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:26.160
How can we move forward?
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:36.160
But if you don't set aside that time, that emotion is going to keep pounding at you and you ignore it, it's going to show up in other areas of your life.
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:40.960
You're going to be upset with the barista at the cafe, with a family member.
00:23:41.039 --> 00:23:45.440
Take it out on your partner, take it out on your ex you're hoping to get back with, right?
00:23:45.759 --> 00:24:01.680
So it is important to set aside, and I've said this many times, if we could take the strengths of a person who's got an avoidant attachment style and the anxious attachment, that is actually what a secure attached person is, right?
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:09.599
Vulnerability and capacity for intimacy and independence and autonomy.
00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:17.680
You need both of them to be feeling like a fulfilled, secure within yourself human being.
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:18.559
Yeah.
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:19.599
Yeah.
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:20.880
You know, it is funny.
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:24.400
I think I I know I've mentioned this to you before, Annalisa.
00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:28.000
Now that I'm, you know, mostly healed.
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:29.200
It's funny.
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:33.599
I sometimes do miss my avoidant abilities, right?
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:36.400
When I because I mean, yeah, I don't mind feeling things.
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:37.599
I'm a feeling human being.
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:39.200
I I am a fearful avoidant.
00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:41.279
I feel things very deeply.
00:24:41.920 --> 00:24:46.640
But at times I was able to kind of like, okay, not right now, shut it down.
00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:55.039
Whereas now being more secure, I don't have as strong of an ability to avoid things.
00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:58.240
Like I can still, you know, obviously, like priorities in life, right?
00:24:58.400 --> 00:24:59.599
Work this and that.
00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:08.000
But like sometimes I'm like, oh man, wouldn't it be nice to be like just be able to shut it down and not feel like crap right now, right?
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:18.400
That's one of the things that the anxiously attached are quite jealous of is that you guys can just shut down.
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:18.960
No.
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:21.359
Miss Larry, you guys can do that?
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:22.559
Wait, what?
00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:25.599
It usually comes at a price, though.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:27.039
It usually comes at a price.
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:32.960
If if I could share something, I it's not something I talk about very often because it gets very complicated.
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:45.359
When Larry and I broke up the second time, I I don't know what happened where, but I started to slip into becoming a fearful avoidant.
00:25:45.759 --> 00:25:53.920
Now, I thanked the heavens that I knew what I was dealing with because I would see these emotions and I'll just shut them aside.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:55.839
I'll distract myself with work.
00:25:56.000 --> 00:26:02.880
And the more I distracted myself with work and loved work, the more my body wanted to just go towards that when things got tough.
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:04.640
And I started to recognize it.
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:12.400
And I remember, even though we broke up, for him, he never wanted to leave.
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:15.519
I was the one who said, okay, this is not going to happen to me again.
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:21.039
If we get back together, no way in hell is he going to take me for granted and think you could just get up and leave.
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:22.720
Because if you get up and leave, you're not coming back.
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:24.559
So I'm working on my healing, right?
00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:30.880
About four months in, we met at a cafe and we're talking, we're having a great time.
00:26:31.039 --> 00:26:33.519
And I hugged him and I said, I love you.
00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:37.920
And I felt my entire body freeze up.
00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:43.119
And I thought, oh my God, does he think I'm committed?
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:45.440
Because I haven't decided I'm committed.
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:47.359
Does he have expectations?
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:50.720
And I started to freak out on the inside.
00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:52.160
And he goes his way.
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:55.279
I get into a cab and I call him and I'm crying.
00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:59.920
And I said, Hey, I know I said I love you, but please don't read too much into it.
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:04.880
Now, because he comes from that fearful, avoidant background, he's like, babe, it's okay.
00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:05.680
Don't worry about it.
00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:06.400
Relax.
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:08.720
You're not obligated to anything.
00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:15.200
So, and I relaxed there, but I knew what was got uh what was happening and monitoring it.
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:19.359
And I allowed myself, just stay with this for a while until you level out.
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:26.480
And it was when pushing through all of that, it's like, okay, I don't want to say I love you, but I'm feeling it and it's fear controlling me.
00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:29.519
So now I'm gonna do the thing that I'm afraid of doing.
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:35.200
I'm gonna prove that by showing pushing through to fear, I'm gonna be okay.
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:38.480
That's how I became securely attached.
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:44.799
Yeah, because that vulnerability part, showing vulnerability is anxiously attached.
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:57.279
Fearful, avoidance, don't share it, don't open up to vulnerability because they're afraid of losing control, which is I was kind of stuck between both of them.
00:27:58.240 --> 00:28:14.480
And in order to heal, you have to look at the thing that you're afraid of and say, No, I'm going to do the thing, and eventually you see that doing the thing does not hurt you, and that's when you start to feel safe and secure.
00:28:14.720 --> 00:28:20.079
So, Marta, I've been in your skin and it is not comfortable.
00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:31.200
No, that is this why I'm sweating right now, because uh, yeah, that would explain a few things, but it's funny you should um say that because I not anyone's sweating, but it's because it's 35, 36 degrees here.
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:34.880
We don't know what that means in that on, but it's in the 90s, I guess.
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:36.079
Yeah, yeah, you guys see the fair.
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:39.599
Oh, nobody knows Duncan's in the I'll I'll translate.
00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:43.119
Being Canadian, I'll translate since I speak both.
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:48.720
But I just recently made a new friend, and we're sending each other voice notes.
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:50.559
And you're talking about me now.
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:51.680
No, no, no.
00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:55.200
I mean, you're bombarded with voice notes, okay?
00:28:55.359 --> 00:29:02.319
No, it's a it's a she, but I was telling her a story and I was like, and I recorded, I'm like, you know what?
00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:06.079
I am going to practice being vulnerable.
00:29:06.160 --> 00:29:09.920
So I will tell you the story that I mentioned that I didn't tell you yesterday.
00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:17.519
And and so both of us, without naming names, she decided she was like, you know what, I'm gonna practice that too.
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:23.680
And so we're practicing being vulnerable with each other, and we'll see how it goes, you know?
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:25.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:28.640
It's it's all weird because I'm like, this feels strange.
00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:55.279
But yeah, I I have my my ex to thank for kind of facing my fears because he kind of called me out one time when like you're living out of place of fear, and and he wasn't referring to emotionally, I think he was talking about life in general, but I took that to heart and started like reassessing not just my physical world, but also like my inner world and and how I make those decisions.
00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:02.880
And and I have my reasons for making them the way I did up to that point, being a what I call a double immigrant and all that.
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:08.799
But I was like, oh, yeah, okay, shoot.
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:10.000
I don't like that.
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:16.960
Because the one thing I know is I do kick ass and I am resilient, and he knows that too.
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:19.920
And those were the things that that brought us together, right?
00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:23.920
So I'm like, I do want to go back to kicking ass and being resilient.
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:28.400
And and do I still have my days when I'm like, I don't want to get up.
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:32.799
Yeah, I do, but I'm like, nah, ain't nobody coming to save you.
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:35.440
So come on, let's do it, right?
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:39.039
Yeah, that's that's the part I wish the anxious attach would have.
00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:42.240
The part where it's like, nobody's coming to save you, get up and do it.
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:44.160
And and it's really about the balance, right?
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:53.279
It's I mean, Duncan, you know this, you've got to incorporate or you've got to be a little like the avoidant, but not have that fear drive you.
00:30:53.599 --> 00:31:00.640
So that yeah, I I mean, I've been called out on that before about letting fear take the wheel.
00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:02.400
Definitely something worked on.
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:04.079
Definitely something that worked on.
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:10.400
I you know, I've had my moments over the last eight, nine months, probably longer than that.
00:31:12.319 --> 00:31:26.559
Where it's very very easy to feel sorry for yourself and very easy to go down the the worries me victim mindset, you know, you allow the anxious attachments style to just take over and take the wheel.
00:31:26.880 --> 00:31:40.079
But I've always had this mantra, I think we might have spoken about this before of like when you come out of the other side, when you sort of suffer from depression and anything like that, we're getting off topic a little bit.
00:31:40.480 --> 00:31:45.279
But I think it's still relevant, is that it will pass, you know.
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:51.680
Like no feeling is final, so it will pass, but I don't want to be right back at the start when I come out the other side.
00:31:51.839 --> 00:31:57.680
So that's one of the things that keeps me motivated, is that like just keep going, keep showing up, keep pushing through, keep pushing through.
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:01.839
Because when it all clears away, you're gonna be right where you want it to be.
00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:11.680
If you just give in and just let it consume you, it will pass, but you're right back at the start, and you've wasted a whole bunch of time.
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:24.559
And that to me is quite a powerful stick to beat myself with, and I think it can be relevant to anything, like you know, when we talk about like breakups and exes potentially coming back one day, that kind of thing.
00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:37.599
If you're right back at the start, well you're nothing's changed, nothing has changed, and you're not really good for anyone, not a new partner, not an ex, not for anyone.
00:32:38.000 --> 00:32:40.960
Right, but at that point the outcome would be the same too, right?
00:32:41.119 --> 00:33:07.039
If if we have they haven't changed, yeah, and like my my ex-wife was telling me a couple of months ago when she started dating, and she made a comment about like what is it with all middle-aged men and that just being sad and depressed and talking about their exes all the time, and I'm like, Oh apparently, one guy fried on the date.
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:10.079
So well, that's a red flag.
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:11.839
Yeah, well, that's what I said.
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:16.160
I said, I think that's he's telling you he's not ready for this.
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:22.559
Yeah, pat him on the head and maybe he doesn't know that that's what he's saying, but that's what we need to know.
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.680
Instead of us, like especially anxious attached.
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:33.599
I if I had heard that as an anxious attached person and went out on a date and I heard something like that, I'd be like, Oh, I could fix this, I could make it all better.
00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:35.519
That person was so mean to you.
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:46.640
I could I could be better, I could prove that you know you're you just you're yeah, it's a project, and now it's like, okay, if you just broke up with somebody, you need time to get over them.
00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:51.039
You need you need at least, I'll give you a nice one year.
00:33:51.759 --> 00:33:55.279
Six months with massive effort, massive work.
00:33:56.400 --> 00:33:59.920
And that's you know, that's that's something that that Larry and I went through.
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:03.279
We we got out of, we had just gotten out of relationships.
00:34:03.519 --> 00:34:05.200
Just gotten out of relationships.
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:09.199
The thing is, we both knew that we should not be dating each other.
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:13.760
So am I the only one who wants to bring Larry in as a guest as well?
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:14.719
Oh, we're bringing in.
00:34:15.360 --> 00:34:16.159
We're working on it.
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.159
We we are we're working on it.
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:19.440
He just doesn't know what he's done.
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:21.039
He's he just doesn't know it yet.
00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:24.559
No, and then he's like, he's he said, said, but I'm not a public figure.
00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:25.519
I'm like, are you kidding?
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:28.400
You're in recording studios for your songs right now.
00:34:28.559 --> 00:34:29.679
You're pretty public.
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:40.559
But yeah, at some at some point it would be lovely to have him on the podcast because you know, sometimes he does stuff like showing vulnerability a lot.
00:34:40.719 --> 00:34:44.239
So you know, like I'm still I I talked to my therapist about this.
00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:53.199
I'm like, I'm still amazed, I'm amazed, and I I say to him, I'm like, you're my proof that fearful avoidant can heal.
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:56.800
You're my absolute proof because I see it all the time.
00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:59.360
Aw, that's so sweet.
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:00.159
It's a unicorn.
00:35:00.239 --> 00:35:00.800
No, I'm kidding.
00:35:00.960 --> 00:35:03.280
Not a unicorn, it's we can all do it.
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:05.119
Yes, we can all be unicorns.
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:11.840
Everybody can, yeah, yeah, we can, we can, and I think it just starts with starts with being curious, doesn't it?
00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:29.119
Start with being curious about yourself and tired, and sick, and you've got to be sick and tired of feeling helpless, of of waiting for other people to to show up for you, to be consistent.
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:31.280
You've got to be goddamn sick and tired.
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:41.119
And and I think that's one of the biggest problems with going right back to boundaries until you're sick and tired of being treated that way, you can't say no.
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:48.960
You can't look at people and say, F no, you don't get to treat me that way.
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:59.760
And that's what shocks people into realizing, oh crap, if I don't show up for this person as they need, I'm gonna lose all the benefits that come with them.
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:00.800
Yeah.
00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:06.320
F no is my favorite two words right now.
00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:12.159
Well, and hopefully, you know, you can address it before you even get to the point where you have to say that, right?
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:21.519
Because you have your boundaries, you have your standards, you have your, and I truly believe that most people, most partners do want to show up for us the right way.
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:22.480
It's interesting.
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:32.639
I was chatting with someone the other day about how that person was loving their ex, but they were loving them in a way they want to be loved, right?
00:36:32.719 --> 00:36:35.679
So this is kind of crossing into like the love languages and whatnot.
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:38.480
And and this person was saying, like, well, that's what I want.
00:36:38.559 --> 00:36:39.599
So that's what I gave her.
00:36:39.679 --> 00:36:43.280
And I'm like, but is this what she wanted or needed, right?
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:48.719
Because, and and you know, I I don't think because a lot of people will, well, then you're not compatible.
00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:52.159
I'm like, no, no, there's like it's a jigsaw puzzle, right?
00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:57.760
There's like, let's say there's like the big toddler ones, there's five pieces, you just have to make them fit properly.
00:36:57.840 --> 00:36:58.559
That that is all.
00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:05.920
You might have to turn a piece around where physical touch is important to me, but it's not number one, it's number three, right?
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:15.440
And so just kind of making sure that you give what they want to receive, and you receive what you need as well, right?
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:22.239
So being able to communicate what it is that you need versus like, oh, they're giving me this, I'll just take it because they're giving it to me.
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:28.079
Like, I didn't order apples, I wanted oranges, so excuse me, but could you give me oranges, right?
00:37:28.159 --> 00:37:33.039
Just learning to communicate that this is not what you need to make your fruit salad.
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:37.920
This is because you already have apples, but you're missing oranges, right?
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:41.840
And so many of us are scared to actually voice what we need.
00:37:41.920 --> 00:37:46.159
And then the fruit salad just turns into a potato salad, and that's not what I wanted.
00:37:47.119 --> 00:37:47.679
There you go.
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:49.360
I'm a foodie.
00:37:50.159 --> 00:38:01.920
I've always found it hard to communicate my needs, like it felt like they were perhaps not as significant in the relate in like in relationships.
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:03.920
Like my needs don't really matter.
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:12.079
So I'll just people please and solve your problems and suit your needs.
00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:21.679
Yeah, I think I always focus more on making them happy too, yeah, rather than like wait, if I'm happy, they're happy, and then both of us can be happy, right?
00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:22.639
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:23.920
Well, that goes back to that.
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:27.119
There's that that phrase in there, happy wife, happy life.
00:38:27.360 --> 00:38:31.519
And it's like, that's not that's that, isn't it?
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:33.280
It's it's people pleasing again.
00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:36.480
It's like I'm gonna suck it up.
00:38:36.960 --> 00:38:40.239
But at the same time, if you talk to you, it just makes me cringe when I hear that.
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:46.559
It's like you know, then then it is happy wife and happy life, and you have your happy self and happy life, right?
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:49.920
I think that really comes from.
00:38:50.000 --> 00:39:02.079
I mean, when I hear something like that, I could I could easily don't want to use the word assume, but it gives a good indication of what the child went through.
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:13.280
It would be that comes from, you know, a child who who had a parent or both parents who could not control their emotions.
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:24.719
And so the child feels like I need to make mommy or daddy happy so that they could be calm and give me the affection, the attention that I need.
00:39:25.119 --> 00:39:34.159
Yeah, because at the end of the day, I mean, little teeny tiny humans and even us grown-ups, we're we're an organism, we're an animal that needs to survive.
00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:37.119
And instinctually, we know we need our parents to survive.
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:45.679
And if our parents are not regulated and they can't protect us, they're losing their crap over whatever is going on, they can't protect us.
00:39:45.840 --> 00:39:51.199
So we need to make sure that they're calm enough to make sure we're safe.
00:39:51.440 --> 00:39:58.159
And it's not just physical safety, even though it might be instinctual at that age to be physical, it's emotional safety.
00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:01.440
And I think that's what a lot of us miss.
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:03.840
That the that goes back to the basics.
00:40:04.159 --> 00:40:07.519
We are human beings, it's an animal.
00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:16.559
The main purpose of that animal is to survive, and you see that the person who's supposed to protect you, you can't help yourself.
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:24.480
That person is unable to do that because they're sitting in a corner crying or they're screaming and shouting, or they're drunk, or whatever is going on.
00:40:24.639 --> 00:40:28.239
They're not present and aware to protect you.
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:29.360
So, what do I do?
00:40:29.519 --> 00:40:30.719
The anxious attach.
00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:35.840
Oh, let me make mommy happy, let me make daddy happy so they're going to be fine and focused, right?
00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:41.039
Or with the avoidant attach is oh crap, I can't depend on this person.
00:40:41.119 --> 00:40:44.239
Let me figure out how to keep myself safe.
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:50.159
Like baby turtles, you know, the turtle mommy, she lays her eggs and covers it with sand.
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:51.599
What happens with the babies?
00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:56.960
She leaves, babies hatched, and you're on your own, and what happens?
00:40:57.280 --> 00:40:59.840
They have some of them don't survive.
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:01.039
That's true.
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:12.239
But see, it's funny because that survival then kicks into because you mentioned all we want to do is survive, is but that's what our brains do too, with the stories that we tell ourselves, right?
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:14.159
Like, oh, he doesn't care.
00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:18.400
Oh, I'm dumb, I'm stupid, I'm not enough, right?
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:25.599
That's still right, because your brain is just like, oh, this is how you survived so far.
00:41:25.760 --> 00:41:31.199
So if I keep repeating this stuff, like I'm not enough, I'm not enough, this is how you live this long.
00:41:31.599 --> 00:41:34.320
So we're just gonna go in the loop and keep repeating that.
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:35.760
That is that is all it is.
00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:42.719
It's the survival mechanism of the brain to keep repeating the stuff that we know objectively, right?
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:48.719
On the conscious level, that is beyond not good for us for me to be telling myself I'm not good enough.
00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:52.559
But the subconscious, like, yeah, Marta, you're not, right?
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:56.719
Again, it's like holding on to that survival for its dear life.
00:41:56.960 --> 00:42:03.599
Yeah, it's what do I need to do to make sure I stay alive on this planet?
00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:09.039
Yeah, your brain doesn't care if you're in a relationship happy or not, you're alive, you're breathing.
00:42:09.119 --> 00:42:10.800
Bam, mission accomplished.
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:11.519
That's it.
00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:13.840
You could procreate and you could breathe, we're good.
00:42:14.079 --> 00:42:14.320
Yeah.
00:42:15.199 --> 00:42:15.679
Next.
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:19.679
You know, I'm actually thinking though, I was actually thinking about tribes.
00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:24.320
And if they would have this problem in Guyana, where I'm from, we have lots of tribes.
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:32.880
I'm thinking I should probably go there and do uh research on the tribes because when my child is born, and I grew up in the camera.
00:42:33.039 --> 00:42:41.039
Yeah, yeah, but you know, I'm I'm thinking, I grew up in Guyana where we I'm I'm from a village, right?
00:42:41.199 --> 00:42:52.239
My my father's generation, they don't have attachment style issues, they got issues, but it's not they they all survive, they've all just figured out surviving.
00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:56.480
And when when I say attachment style issues, I mean the offsets of it.
00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:03.039
We don't hear about anxiety, depression, ADHD, nothing of the sort in that generation.
00:43:03.519 --> 00:43:07.360
But they also had the villagers would look out for each other.
00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:16.400
I remember this story about my dad when he was a little, he was young and and he had a lemonade bottle, and somebody thought it was a beer bottle.
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:29.440
So they go home to his mother's uh and told the mother, hey, your son is is having a beer bottle, and then she's sending somebody else, a neighbor, to go get the, you know, and so the neighbors were involved.
00:43:30.239 --> 00:43:36.800
And I'm thinking with with tribes as well, the entire community is involved in raising the child.
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:39.199
The child always feels cared for and protected.
00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:41.440
Takes a village to raise a child, as they say.
00:43:41.679 --> 00:43:42.000
Right.
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:50.800
But now in our modern day living, we're going to one person and expecting them to be that tribe.
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:56.400
And yes, we need connection, but that comes from humans need connection, but that's from a tribe.
00:43:56.800 --> 00:43:57.039
Yeah.
00:43:57.199 --> 00:43:59.360
I don't know if I've had this conversation with you, Martha.
00:43:59.440 --> 00:44:04.159
I know I've had Or with other people, if you look at the D now.
00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:08.320
You know, I have this philosophy and I know it's not just mine, it's a shared one.
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:22.159
But you know, the 2.4 children model is is detrimental to uh the child's well-being because as parents you're supposed to raise an adult to survive in the wild and thrive.
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:37.119
But if your caregivers are not up to scratch, so we say, then the child doesn't really have a chance in hell because it's only getting its education from these two people.
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:48.000
Because I found that when my stepdaughter was yeah, yeah, when my stepdaughter was a daycare from like a young age, six months old, she went to nursery.
00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:54.639
And I know my ex-wife and her ex-partner, they got a lot of grief for doing that.
00:44:55.360 --> 00:45:10.400
Now, when I came into the scene, I was like, no, I think this is a good thing because uh Caitlyn was getting mission there, sorry, was getting influences not just from all the other kids but from all the other adults, and there was a there was structure.
00:45:10.639 --> 00:45:30.320
It was more it's more like what you would get in an indigenous tribe community, so she's getting a very broad education from the caregivers, the other children, and share learning how to socialize at a young age, and uh she's gone up into a very well-rounded, wonderful human being.
00:45:31.599 --> 00:45:55.679
But the the criticism that uh they got at the time for doing that, and yeah, actually, that's probably the most healthy model because if you've got kids who are growing up under some people who have racist uh you know views, uh, right wing or extreme left, whatever you want to go with, if they grow up in their own, that's gonna be on them, and off we go.
00:45:55.920 --> 00:45:59.599
Yeah, you think that's that's the only way yeah.
00:45:59.679 --> 00:46:06.800
When you look at indigenous tribe, it's community, and it's in every the child influenced from all angles, everyone.
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:10.159
Yeah, you have exposure to different things.
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:15.039
So the the whole term of it it takes a village to raise a child is banned on the money, I think.
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:26.320
I think one of the biggest problems problems in society is the parenting model that we have in the Western world because you're you're just growing up under the influence of two people who may not be fit for purpose.
00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:34.559
Well, the other thing is we've learned a particular way from our parents, and we believe that's the right way.
00:46:34.719 --> 00:46:39.199
I mean, you look at social media, everybody's giving their opinion on what's right and what's wrong, right?
00:46:39.280 --> 00:46:44.880
And we forget that the individual has a mind of their own or should have a mind of their own.
00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:46.639
And I I've made this mistake.
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:57.760
I've got four kids, I've made this mistake with the three girls, the older ones, until I don't know, maybe the girls were 12, 12, 10, and 8.
00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:02.079
And and I I try not to make that mistake with my son, where I say, think for yourself.
00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:06.079
And if you don't like something mommy's doing, question it, push back.
00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:08.000
I need to hear your opinions.
00:47:08.239 --> 00:47:12.400
And so he grew up, he grew up with that, and now the girls have it.
00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:28.960
But yeah, it's um you know, I've told my my kids forever, my job as your parent is to prepare you as best as I possibly could and guide you as best as I possibly could so that you could be fine in this world.
00:47:29.119 --> 00:47:29.920
That that's it.
00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:31.760
And then after that, you make your decisions.
00:47:31.840 --> 00:47:32.400
I'm out of here.
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:35.599
Like you decide what's right for you and what's not right for you.
00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:38.159
But I I see it, I see it every day.
00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:42.880
And I don't I don't think, you know, this is not not to bash a parent.
00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:45.840
I know for the most part, parents are trying their best.
00:47:46.079 --> 00:47:49.840
They're trying their best, they want what's best for their kids.
00:47:50.320 --> 00:48:00.320
The way the children are are are looking at these experiences, how they're absorbing it, that that's a really tricky thing.
00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:02.000
It's a really tricky thing.
00:48:02.320 --> 00:48:04.880
You know, the the attachment style, secure attached.
00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:15.679
I've I've had a client who had incredible parents, and you know, he was he was adopted.
00:48:15.840 --> 00:48:30.320
I'm I'm changing a lot of this story because I don't like sharing about my clients, but the the gist of it is was adopted, incredible parents adopted him, and you would think that this child would grow into an adult who is securely attached.
00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:43.280
That did not happen because that child felt like I now owe it to my parents to be the best child I possibly can be, and that child turned out to be a fearful avoidant.
00:48:44.400 --> 00:48:53.920
So it's not always the parents, it is how the child perceives their experiences and what they take away from them.
00:48:54.079 --> 00:49:02.239
It's it's such a I swear to you, I've been growing really, really to hate this attachment thing.
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:05.039
It's like a freaking disease.
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:24.239
Well, it's also like as as we've discussed on on I think on the previous podcast, on social media, the demonization of fearful avoidance and dismissive avoidance, you know, that they get demonized almost like, yeah, you can't be with them, they're they're no good.
00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:26.400
We just push those over there.
00:49:26.719 --> 00:49:31.440
And it's like, what they're a whole it's not that simple.
00:49:31.599 --> 00:49:32.800
It's there's not a one shot.
00:49:33.199 --> 00:49:34.880
Shoving me in the corner, Duncan.
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:36.239
We're not shoving you in the corner.
00:49:36.320 --> 00:49:36.719
Could you imagine?
00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:39.440
Yeah, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna minimize your window.
00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:46.559
This is this is why I started training martial arts, so I can kick people's asses with well, wait, what's that movie?
00:49:46.719 --> 00:49:48.320
Nobody puts baby in the corner.
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:50.079
Yes, nobody puts baby in the corner.
00:49:52.639 --> 00:49:54.159
That's right, that's right.
00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:59.760
No, I think we don't really pick well when it comes to attachment styles.
00:49:59.840 --> 00:50:10.719
We really don't see that the people, especially anxious attached, the brain is wired to be attracted to fearful avoidant and dismissive avoidant.
00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:11.360
Why?
00:50:11.599 --> 00:50:23.920
Because it's already programmed to believe that I've got to work for love and I'm gonna go towards this person who subconsciously, there's a part of me that already picked up this is going to be hard to achieve.
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:25.360
So I'm gonna be attracted to that.
00:50:25.599 --> 00:50:35.440
And it's not just your romantic partners, it is going to be your favorite parent, but they're not avoidantly attached or looking that way with you.
00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:39.840
Check, check your other parent, how they're reacting.
00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:41.760
It's your best friend.
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:43.679
Yeah, everyone, check on your parents.
00:50:43.840 --> 00:50:45.679
Yeah, it's your best friend.
00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:50.239
Like my father, I grew up absolutely adoring this man.
00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:56.400
The year of my life, he was always so calm, put together, ambitious.
00:50:57.519 --> 00:50:58.480
Boy, now I'm older.
00:50:58.639 --> 00:51:01.360
My mother was anxiously attached, and my father was fearful, avoidant.
00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:02.400
And who have I dated?
00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:05.039
Only fearful, avoidant, and dismissive avoidant.
00:51:05.119 --> 00:51:07.119
And a wonderful, still a wonderful man.
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:10.320
I just didn't know what my mom was going through.
00:51:10.400 --> 00:51:16.079
And of course, I didn't know what he was going through with my mom because she was a typical anxious, attached.
00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:17.039
Poor thing.
00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:18.400
Wait, do we have the same people?
00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:19.920
Probably.
00:51:20.079 --> 00:51:20.880
We all do have the same.
00:51:21.679 --> 00:51:22.079
We do.
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:25.760
Yeah, because that sounds that sounds very familiar to me, also.
00:51:26.079 --> 00:51:29.360
You know, as you as you were saying that, I was like, huh.
00:51:30.320 --> 00:51:31.360
What are we doing?
00:51:31.679 --> 00:51:37.440
Yeah, I was actually thinking, I'm gonna, I'm gonna write a post, and it's gonna start with I'll throw you say you wrote a poem.
00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:47.519
I was gonna I'm gonna start, I'm gonna start it with my what my my son is my son, is a dismissive avoidant.
00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:50.400
What an AH or what a jerk.
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:54.639
And let's see how people react to that because that's what we're dealing with.
00:51:54.719 --> 00:52:16.400
The people that we love, little adorable, loving humans, carry these attachment styles, but we call them all of these names, like AH and jerk and all of it, when it's an ex and we forget that kids are walking around, and you know, our favorite actors, our favorite artists.
00:52:16.639 --> 00:52:18.800
Well, and at the end of the day, it's funny.
00:52:18.880 --> 00:52:22.079
I was having this conversation like an hour ago.
00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:26.880
The end of the day, the attachment style is just a label, right?
00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:35.920
It's what's underneath that label, it's the core wounds that that need to be addressed and figured out and and and patched up.
00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:40.880
And I kind of started thinking about this as a scar, right?
00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:43.920
Because I'm a fearful avoidant and I have a scar.
00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:45.840
I have a fearful avoidance scar.
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:51.920
So when something happens, my initial instinct is go the fearful avoidant route, right?
00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:53.679
Like that's like that's what I'm gonna do.
00:52:53.840 --> 00:52:57.440
It's just oh, my scar is burning, like Harry Potter.
00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:03.119
So I gotta like pull myself or Lord of the Rings too, if you know, you know.
00:53:03.360 --> 00:53:07.760
Anyways, I have to pull myself back and be like, no, no, it's just a scar now.
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:13.119
You remember where that scar came from, but I know better ways to deal with it now.
00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:17.360
I'm taking the healthy route or the secure route or whatever route.
00:53:17.599 --> 00:53:19.760
So the scar is forever going to be there.
00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:30.079
Like my initial instinct will be to go and ah, but it's just the stopping myself, pulling back and rerouting in a different direction, right?
00:53:30.400 --> 00:53:33.599
But again, fearful avoidant is just a label.
00:53:33.840 --> 00:53:37.119
Like, what is it that makes me a fearful avoidant, right?
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:40.719
Like, what is that core wound that makes me so?
00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:44.480
And and then we deal with that, yeah.
00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:51.760
Yeah, people take on that label like it's the whole person, the whole personality, it's just a part of the personality.
00:53:51.840 --> 00:53:54.159
There's so many parts of the human.
00:53:54.400 --> 00:54:09.360
Yeah, and that's what and that's what I find frustrating with that social media angle of literally, you know, yes, the the the the label, if you like, gets you kind of gets you in the room, but then the work starts there.
00:54:09.599 --> 00:54:17.760
It doesn't that that's not you don't write them off because they put they have these tendencies and exhibit these qualities.
00:54:17.840 --> 00:54:19.599
It's like, yeah, like Montesset.
00:54:19.920 --> 00:54:20.639
Yeah, okay.
00:54:20.800 --> 00:54:22.000
So why are you like that?
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:24.559
Because it can all be undone.
00:54:25.039 --> 00:54:27.039
Pull the band-aid off and see what's underneath.
00:54:27.199 --> 00:54:27.760
What's underneath?
00:54:27.840 --> 00:54:30.079
It's kind of like, oh yeah, Marty, you're a nurse.
00:54:30.159 --> 00:54:33.840
So it I like to see it this way person comes in with a fever, right?
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:34.960
That's the trigger.
00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:36.079
That's the trigger.
00:54:36.239 --> 00:54:38.159
Okay, what's causing the fever?
00:54:38.400 --> 00:54:38.719
Right.
00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:42.239
There's a bacteria here, which is the attachment style.
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:45.039
Okay, now how do we treat it?
00:54:45.599 --> 00:54:47.679
And so you can heal, right?
00:54:48.079 --> 00:54:48.960
That's what it is.
00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:50.639
Let's get you some antibiotics.
00:54:50.960 --> 00:54:58.480
Yes, let's let's get you the antibiotics, which would be the tools to help you to heal, but it's not the entire person.
00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:02.719
The person is not the fever, the person is not the bacteria.
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:05.840
It's no, there's a lot of other pieces, right?
00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:06.960
And and that's the thing.
00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:11.599
Like human psychology is so much more complex than just the attachment styles, right?
00:55:11.679 --> 00:55:17.920
Like we can address it and go through it, but there's also other things that affect us in our day-to-day life.
00:55:18.239 --> 00:55:30.800
Not to say, but I do think it's a big chunk of you know, explanation for why we react the way we react and why we are the way we are, but it's not all of it, right?
00:55:30.880 --> 00:55:34.079
It's not be all end all attachment styles.
00:55:34.159 --> 00:55:37.280
Poof, you're securely attached, you'll have no issues in life.
00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:39.360
I wish it was way more nuance.
00:55:39.519 --> 00:55:40.159
I wish it was though.
00:55:41.280 --> 00:55:41.679
Yeah.
00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:43.440
Life would be just boring.
00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:44.800
Yeah, and actually, no.
00:55:44.960 --> 00:55:48.320
Do you guys have any issues in life now that you're securely attached?
00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:49.679
What you still do?
00:55:50.639 --> 00:55:51.599
What are the issues?
00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:59.519
You know, I I was actually thinking about this because it it gets kind of annoying when somebody asks, like, don't you have anything that you worry about?
00:56:02.880 --> 00:56:04.000
I've been thinking about it.
00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:05.119
Still thinking about it.
00:56:05.360 --> 00:56:11.360
No, you know, I think I've just trained myself that whenever something pops up, I'll deal with it and get it over with.
00:56:11.679 --> 00:56:14.559
There's nothing to worry about if it's not happening.
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:17.199
I don't want to worry in advance, yeah.
00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:25.679
You know, it's like I think, and and the other thing is someone had asked me about my relationship with Larry, is there nothing you like about him?
00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:33.440
I said, you know, I spent so many years focusing on what I do like and what I'm grateful for, and that's what I enjoy.
00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:50.320
That everything else is like, I I don't I guess whatever it is, it's it's if there is something to not like, it is not so loud to cause a disruption or anxiety.
00:56:50.480 --> 00:56:51.360
Does that make sense?
00:56:51.599 --> 00:57:00.719
But can we also go over the fact that holy smokes, who came up with this belief that if it was right, then it would be easy?
00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:01.920
Who came up with that?
00:57:02.079 --> 00:57:11.360
That relationships are meant to be easy because like I completely disagree with that anyway, because nothing easy, nothing easy's ever been worth it.
00:57:11.599 --> 00:57:15.519
Everything that you've that's been worthwhile in your life that's been successful, yeah.
00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:16.880
You've had to work for, right?
00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:20.559
Yeah, I mean the first first two years wasn't that easy.
00:57:20.800 --> 00:57:26.800
Yeah, everything so to assume that relationships are supposed to be easy is no, I don't buy that at all.
00:57:26.960 --> 00:57:34.079
Sorry, no, no, I I agree because that because that would mean that one of you has to hand it to the other and completely submit.
00:57:34.400 --> 00:57:39.519
That you're dating a copy of yourself, you know, and then how exciting is that?
00:57:40.000 --> 00:57:48.960
But then it's also I feel like the part of it that is work, and and this is something I I feel like we really need to be careful with.
00:57:49.119 --> 00:58:11.039
The part of the relationship that is work is getting to know the other person, understanding who they are, understanding ourselves in the relationship, asking ourselves, is this something that works for the life I want to build for myself?
00:58:11.679 --> 00:58:12.000
Right?
00:58:13.199 --> 00:58:26.719
Making a few compromises if if they're healthy, but the work should not be this person was amazing when we met, they're different now, and I need to change them and make them into who I want them to be.
00:58:27.039 --> 00:58:27.840
That is not the work.
00:58:28.079 --> 00:58:29.440
No, that is not what we're saying.
00:58:29.599 --> 00:58:41.599
Yeah, changing your partner is not the work I'm referring to, but I think it's such a gift when your partner does bring out in you your issues to a certain degree, right?
00:58:41.760 --> 00:58:53.920
When when you are with a partner and they do trigger that core wound, I think that is, and people are gonna roll their eyeballs at me because I just did myself, but it's such a gift, right?
00:58:54.159 --> 00:58:59.039
Because certain things don't present until such time that you're in a relationship, right?
00:58:59.119 --> 00:59:01.599
Something has to be triggered by a relationship.
00:59:01.760 --> 00:59:05.199
And then the core wound that I've had is now exposed.
00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:06.239
And guess what?
00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:27.119
Now we get to make a conscious decision if you and I, and obviously most of it would be on me to work on me, but also if you and I want to patch this up together, patch that humpty dumpty human being that I am and humpty dumpty that you are, and and realign again over and over and over again, because that's what love is.
00:59:27.280 --> 00:59:33.280
It's choosing your person every single day to continue to be your person, right?
00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:39.039
And there's gonna be bumps along the way, and there's gonna be new things that come up from under that band-aid.
00:59:39.760 --> 00:59:42.320
And do we do we continue choosing that?
00:59:42.480 --> 00:59:47.360
Right, but them reflecting those core wounds, that's a gift.
00:59:47.599 --> 00:59:51.679
If if they're not reflecting that in you, then are you 12?
00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:55.840
Are you dating at like are you both 12 and just just don't have any issues?
00:59:56.000 --> 01:00:01.199
Like your partner is supposed to bring that out in you and and you then address that together, right?
01:00:01.519 --> 01:00:03.599
That's the beauty of relationships.
01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:16.320
And I also to add on to that, I feel like the way we know, the way we know what we need to work on is when we're triggered, catch yourself before you get defensive.
01:00:16.960 --> 01:00:19.440
Because that trigger is the thing, yeah.
01:00:19.599 --> 01:00:22.000
That trigger is the thing that needs healing.
01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:25.199
Now you pause, isn't it?
01:00:25.440 --> 01:00:33.920
That's like the fundamental, I would say, is yeah, like I I've had it back to me that I'm not so reactive anymore.
01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:50.320
I've better I'm I'm not so defensive, I'm not so reactive, and that's yeah, that's recognizing, you know, if you'll feel it, but then you get a choice whether you react or just see how I was talking about, yeah.
01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:53.519
You pause and ask, okay, why am I?
01:00:55.599 --> 01:00:56.480
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:00:56.639 --> 01:01:10.159
And generally that trigger, when we feel that trigger, not only is it saying that there's something here that needs healing, it's also saying maybe a subconscious level, I believe it to be true.
01:01:10.559 --> 01:01:14.079
If we get defensive, there's some truth to it.
01:01:14.480 --> 01:01:15.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:01:16.639 --> 01:01:23.840
Because it's like when people say if someone annoys you, if there's a person that constantly annoys you, ask yourself why.
01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:31.440
Is it because you see something in your in them that reminds you of what you do, then it's just easy to project into them.
01:01:31.840 --> 01:01:32.480
Oh, yeah.
01:01:32.639 --> 01:01:39.679
I still go through that whenever I meet someone who's anxiously attached, and I see where some like, no, no, I just don't like them.
01:01:40.719 --> 01:01:41.280
No, no, no.
01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:57.519
I I get so triggered because now it's like I see myself, I see the past me, and I see how this person's behavior, as sweet as they are, as caring and and forgiving and accommodating they are, is setting them up for pain.
01:01:57.599 --> 01:01:59.920
And I want to say, you don't have to be this person.
01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:00.960
You're okay.
01:02:01.119 --> 01:02:17.679
So, question for you guys then have you noticed that since doing your inner work, have you noticed that maybe in some ways you're not as patient, or where you may be like, maybe I just see it quicker now, or or you know what I mean?
01:02:17.760 --> 01:02:24.159
Like, I I recognize it in people quicker, and I think I'm just like I'm not stepping into that, right?
01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:28.400
Be it a romantic relationship or a new friendship or whatever.
01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:34.639
I'm like, Yeah, you know, I'm not choosing this for me now, you know.
01:02:34.880 --> 01:02:36.079
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:02:36.239 --> 01:02:36.960
I'd say more of that.
01:02:37.519 --> 01:02:54.239
That's more of the boundary and not so much being patient, it's more of a boundary to quickly catch the thing that I'm I'm choosing not to get involved in again, and saying in that moment, I'm not prolonging it, I'm not dragging you along, I'm just saying this is not something for me.
01:02:54.559 --> 01:02:59.360
Yeah, I'm not even apologizing for it, just this is not something for me.
01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:01.280
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
01:03:01.440 --> 01:03:12.239
I mean, the thing about healing is that it's it's kind of like getting laser treatment for your eyes, it just opens up and you see everything clearly, quickly.
01:03:12.559 --> 01:03:16.960
You spot a red flag in anything someone says or even their behavior.
01:03:17.119 --> 01:03:18.159
You're too nice to me.
01:03:18.239 --> 01:03:19.039
You don't know me.
01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:24.000
Yeah, why are you saying I don't think you're I don't think you're trying to manipulate me deliberately.
01:03:24.079 --> 01:03:28.400
I think there's something that you What kind of people pleasing are you doing?
01:03:28.559 --> 01:03:31.199
Yeah, you see it, you see it right away.
01:03:32.000 --> 01:03:32.960
See right away.
01:03:33.039 --> 01:03:40.559
You know, one of the things Larry and I love to do is we would go out and we could tell if someone is on our first date or not.
01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:53.199
And a lot of time we're overhearing their conversation, you pick up the red flag right there, and I we always can tell when the anxious attached is not seeing that red flag.
01:03:54.079 --> 01:03:57.920
The guy who's looking at the television screen, right?
01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:00.800
He's just looking at the game and that their first date.
01:04:01.119 --> 01:04:03.519
And and he's like, Oh, I'm I'm so sorry.
01:04:03.599 --> 01:04:05.280
Uh, yeah, I'm a little caught up with the game.
01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:07.039
And she's like, Oh no, it's okay.
01:04:07.119 --> 01:04:08.719
I could I I like that you're into it.
01:04:08.880 --> 01:04:15.360
I'm like, no, no, no, but in three months, you're gonna be so annoyed that he's sitting there neglecting you and watching this game.
01:04:15.599 --> 01:04:19.679
Like, it's literally carry around the game, yeah.
01:04:20.239 --> 01:04:29.039
Carry around a whole pack of like red flags when you're out and about, and then you go over and you just stick it on the table, send it to people, just hand it to people.
01:04:29.280 --> 01:04:30.000
That's funny.
01:04:30.079 --> 01:04:33.599
Yeah, just sit on the table in front of sticking this burger.
01:04:33.760 --> 01:04:37.440
What the I really want to there is a guy online, right?
01:04:37.519 --> 01:04:38.960
The the green flag guy or something.
01:04:39.199 --> 01:04:40.000
How did you film it?
01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:40.719
Is he filming it?
01:04:40.800 --> 01:04:41.199
Okay, nuts.
01:04:42.159 --> 01:04:42.639
There you go.
01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:44.000
There's your marketing strategy.
01:04:44.239 --> 01:04:52.000
I would really, I would really sometimes, oh, sometimes I hear it and I want to go over and say, Honey, you need to find a courage.
01:04:52.079 --> 01:04:53.360
Let's go, I'll take you with me.
01:04:53.440 --> 01:04:54.400
Let's go get out of here.
01:04:54.719 --> 01:04:55.599
Come under my wing.
01:04:56.079 --> 01:04:57.039
This guy.
01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:00.159
But yeah, healing does that.
01:05:00.239 --> 01:05:03.760
You see it, and people say, Well, well, that sounds like I'll be alone forever.
01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:05.039
Well, you have two choices.
01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:08.639
You want to stay in a relationship like this, or you'd rather wait.
01:05:09.840 --> 01:05:10.559
It's a choice.
01:05:10.639 --> 01:05:12.960
It's a healing is a choice.
01:05:13.679 --> 01:05:18.480
It's not easy, it's not comfortable, but it is so worth it.
01:05:19.360 --> 01:05:20.239
No, it's not.
01:05:20.800 --> 01:05:24.559
You know, we've discussed before about sometimes when you're in masking and things.
01:05:25.199 --> 01:05:25.519
Yeah.
01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:29.280
Sometimes when you're in a midst of it, it doesn't feel like it's worth it.
01:05:29.519 --> 01:05:37.679
But when you're roll dogging it, it's like yeah, and you know, there's one thing that I want to touch on before we rush off.
01:05:39.840 --> 01:05:42.960
Healing doesn't mean that you're not going to be triggered.
01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:46.000
Yeah, people tend to say, Oh, but when am I going to heal?
01:05:46.239 --> 01:05:46.639
Never.
01:05:46.880 --> 01:05:50.159
Because you start on the journey of healing, you stay on it.
01:05:50.320 --> 01:05:54.480
Just like you start on a journey of pain and you don't get off of it, you stay in it forever.
01:05:54.719 --> 01:05:56.159
Same thing with healing.
01:05:57.039 --> 01:05:59.760
There's always going to be something to work through.
01:06:01.199 --> 01:06:11.440
Because that's just how life is, and as you grow, as hopefully you evolve, you're going to have jobs that you need to navigate, confidence issues with work, or whatever it is you want to do.
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:12.800
It depends on how you want to grow.
01:06:12.880 --> 01:06:16.400
But healing always happens, you're always going to be triggered.
01:06:16.559 --> 01:06:24.239
The difference is instead of being reactive, you are in control of your reaction.
01:06:24.400 --> 01:06:28.159
You can pause in real time when you're triggered.
01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:32.320
And you can choose, I think that's the thing, the empowerment.
01:06:32.559 --> 01:06:37.199
You choose how you're going to respond and react and when you're going to do it.
01:06:37.360 --> 01:06:41.199
Because I know a lot of times I would say, I need some time to process this.
01:06:41.360 --> 01:06:43.199
I can't, I can't right now.
01:06:43.519 --> 01:06:48.960
And then you come back and you, yeah, and God, life is good.
01:06:49.039 --> 01:06:52.320
And I so, so, so want everyone to experience this.
01:06:52.400 --> 01:06:55.440
I promise you, I want everyone to experience this.
01:06:55.519 --> 01:07:11.519
It's, I mean, from being in relationships where you're anxious and begging and flying halfway around the world to be with a guy to convince him, yeah, I did that to be with me at 27 when I was young and all the good stuff full of energy.
01:07:11.679 --> 01:07:16.159
That's what I was doing to now being like absolute at peace.
01:07:16.719 --> 01:07:19.519
That is, oh God, I want everyone to have it.
01:07:19.760 --> 01:07:22.639
I'll figure out how to get the red pill and the blue pill.
01:07:23.360 --> 01:07:26.639
I'm not at peace yet, just FYI for everyone out there, okay?
01:07:26.960 --> 01:07:28.079
Just throwing it out there.
01:07:28.239 --> 01:07:29.519
I'm not at peace.
01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:30.400
You'll get there.
01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:31.920
Getting there.
01:07:32.239 --> 01:07:35.199
Um, and getting there feels pretty good too.
01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:36.719
Just uh, what is it?
01:07:36.800 --> 01:07:38.960
It's not the mountains, the climb, whatever.
01:07:39.119 --> 01:07:40.159
Part of it is true.
01:07:40.320 --> 01:07:46.800
Part of the climb is like Mount Everest, and it's ugly and it's gross, and there's potentially a lot of crying.
01:07:46.960 --> 01:07:48.480
Not that I know that.
01:07:51.360 --> 01:07:58.559
But and make sure you bring snacks for for the road, but like it's a journey worth taking, okay?
01:07:58.800 --> 01:08:00.320
Yeah, snacks are key.
01:08:00.559 --> 01:08:03.199
Snacks and Kleenex, but yeah.
01:08:04.880 --> 01:08:05.280
Oh, yeah.
01:08:05.519 --> 01:08:07.440
If you're Duncan, bring Prosecco.
01:08:08.800 --> 01:08:09.840
The Brits.
01:08:10.320 --> 01:08:12.400
Duncan, yeah.
01:08:13.119 --> 01:08:13.679
Sorry?
01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:16.479
Any last thoughts you'd like to share before?
01:08:16.960 --> 01:08:17.600
Last thoughts.
01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:21.199
Yes, I did, I did have one until I picked up the prosecco.
01:08:21.359 --> 01:08:21.920
Oh, that was it.
01:08:22.079 --> 01:08:22.399
Yes.
01:08:22.720 --> 01:08:27.199
Yeah, there is this this well, I I I believe in my perspective.
01:08:27.680 --> 01:08:34.159
A perspective that attachment theory is just about romantic relationships.
01:08:34.399 --> 01:08:38.239
I think it does get much bigger than that.
01:08:38.640 --> 01:08:57.279
It's it's much it it encompasses all all relationships in your life, as as we discussed when you've got a fearful avoiding as parents dynamic there, it's not I think the way social media pushes it is it's all about break-ups, isn't it?
01:08:57.600 --> 01:09:02.399
Which is the main reason people get intrigued by it.
01:09:02.640 --> 01:09:05.680
That's that's your main introduction to it, but it's bigger than that.
01:09:06.479 --> 01:09:16.800
That's that's kind of what I'd say, and it can help you elsewhere, not just in you know, it's it will help you in all aspects of relationships in life, not just romantic.
01:09:17.359 --> 01:09:18.720
Yeah, thank you for that.
01:09:18.800 --> 01:09:19.680
It just helped me.
01:09:19.760 --> 01:09:27.039
I remember something that I wanted to address for those people who are mistaking the work that I do.
01:09:27.439 --> 01:09:30.720
I am not a get your ex back coach.
01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:32.800
I don't do that, I can't make that promise.
01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:36.880
I cannot help you control or manipulate another human being.
01:09:37.199 --> 01:10:00.239
But what does happen, what can happen if the other person is open to being in a relationship with you again after a breakup is I can help you, and now Marta and Duncan will be helping me to do this, heal your attachment style so that you could set boundaries and have the kind of relationship that you want with a person who is coming back.
01:10:00.319 --> 01:10:10.479
Because as Marta mentioned earlier, you can't get back together with the same behaviors and patterns and expect a successful relationship.
01:10:10.720 --> 01:10:12.800
I've mentioned Larry and I broke up.
01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:19.760
The only reason I believe that our relationship is uh working out the way it is right now, where we're both happy.
01:10:19.920 --> 01:10:21.279
Yes, I'm speaking for him.
01:10:21.359 --> 01:10:22.880
So why wouldn't he be?
01:10:23.119 --> 01:10:29.600
Um during the time of our breakup, I got to work.
01:10:29.840 --> 01:10:32.319
I got seriously working.
01:10:32.479 --> 01:10:40.000
I spent a lot of hours by myself working through patterns, changing patterns deliberately, deliberate effort.
01:10:40.079 --> 01:10:42.159
I'm not talking at the end, I mean, I'm not kidding.
01:10:42.239 --> 01:10:46.560
At the end of the day, I was exhausted with the work that I was doing on myself.
01:10:46.800 --> 01:10:50.479
And we came back together when I felt ready.
01:10:50.960 --> 01:10:57.439
When I felt like I was ready to slowly get back into our relationship.
01:10:57.520 --> 01:11:02.960
So we didn't leave the relationship, jump back in, and picked up where we left off.
01:11:03.119 --> 01:11:04.159
It was not easy.
01:11:04.239 --> 01:11:05.840
He had to learn about this whole new me.
01:11:06.079 --> 01:11:08.800
He even said it a few times like, I don't like this version.
01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:09.760
It's like too bad.
01:11:09.840 --> 01:11:11.119
The old old one's gone.
01:11:11.359 --> 01:11:16.159
You want to be with a version, you could get to know me and make a decision, but that person's not coming back.
01:11:16.319 --> 01:11:20.079
So we don't do let's your get back your ex.
01:11:20.239 --> 01:11:26.479
We do let's heal your attachment styles, let's work through the things that's been holding you back from having that kind of relationship that you want.
01:11:26.560 --> 01:11:30.720
So you could set boundaries and see how the other person shows up for you.
01:11:30.800 --> 01:11:35.279
And then you decide if you want to have a relationship with that person.
01:11:35.439 --> 01:11:41.600
So it's all about empowering you through healing your attachment style or helping you to heal your attachment style.
01:11:41.840 --> 01:11:50.800
And just to kind of add on to that a little bit, real quick, I don't think there is a version of going back to like picking up where we left off.
01:11:50.960 --> 01:11:58.319
Because, right, if at least one person has done the work, it's no longer A plus B equals C.
01:11:58.399 --> 01:12:00.640
Now we have a totally different equation.
01:12:01.039 --> 01:12:04.239
And both people in this scenario, right?
01:12:04.399 --> 01:12:07.600
Let's say you are planning on like, okay, let's try again.
01:12:07.840 --> 01:12:12.239
You have to realize we're not restarting, we're not performing CPR.
01:12:12.479 --> 01:12:15.520
No, we're starting with a brand new baby, right?
01:12:15.680 --> 01:12:26.960
Both parties kind of have to be like, you can discuss the past, you can go over that, and then you have to forgive and let go of that chunk and then build fresh, right?
01:12:27.119 --> 01:12:31.199
Otherwise, otherwise the past is gonna drag you down.
01:12:31.439 --> 01:12:37.760
So it's yeah, it's not CPR, it's starting anew if if that were to take place.
01:12:38.399 --> 01:12:44.880
Just one more thing I wanted to add to what I said earlier, because I know it's social media people love to take a clip and run with it.
01:12:45.199 --> 01:12:51.680
When I said that Larry said he didn't like this version, it was not the version that he was used to.
01:12:51.920 --> 01:13:02.880
And over time, he started to respect the new version, which I believe is what caused the attraction between us.
01:13:03.199 --> 01:13:13.680
And as I changed, I believe that pushed him into facing his fears, being more vulnerable, see how he's going to be received.
01:13:13.920 --> 01:13:18.319
And then with now, I'm not being passive-aggressive, I'm clear.
01:13:18.399 --> 01:13:22.319
So he's got a clear map as to how I want to be treated.
01:13:22.399 --> 01:13:27.199
There's no you need to guess how to treat me or guess how to show up in a relationship.
01:13:27.359 --> 01:13:30.800
I'm being very specific and I'm not telling you what to do.
01:13:31.039 --> 01:13:36.399
It's this is what I'm not okay with, and this is what I'm okay with, and I'm grateful.
01:13:36.560 --> 01:13:40.319
So it's gratitude and stating what you're not okay with.
01:13:40.880 --> 01:13:44.720
I never had to say there's a consequence for it, right?
01:13:44.880 --> 01:13:47.760
It's just, hey, I'm I'm really not okay with this.
01:13:47.920 --> 01:13:49.359
You could imagine whatever you want.
01:13:49.439 --> 01:13:51.119
That's your healing work, right?
01:13:51.279 --> 01:13:52.319
That's your healing work.
01:13:52.399 --> 01:13:57.520
If you're afraid, your healing work, and thank God he's in, he's also been in therapy for a number of years.
01:13:57.680 --> 01:14:04.000
So, you know, I just wanted to clear that up because people would think, oh, well, so he didn't like diversion, so he keeps pushing back.
01:14:04.159 --> 01:14:05.199
No, no, no, no.
01:14:05.359 --> 01:14:08.800
You don't you don't do those things when you become securely attached.
01:14:08.880 --> 01:14:12.479
You don't get involved in relationships where people are pushing back on your boundaries.
01:14:13.359 --> 01:14:16.800
It just took him a minute to realize that was new and improved.
01:14:17.520 --> 01:14:18.000
Yeah.
01:14:18.239 --> 01:14:19.359
And we're, you know.
01:14:19.600 --> 01:14:19.920
Yeah.
01:14:20.079 --> 01:14:20.479
Yeah.
01:14:20.800 --> 01:14:26.319
And you, you know, the the thing about these relationships is that you start to feel it.
01:14:26.640 --> 01:14:32.560
Yeah, people used to uh I used to hear it, you know, people will say you could feel when someone's in a relationship.
01:14:32.720 --> 01:14:34.159
You feel when they're committed.
01:14:34.319 --> 01:14:35.520
Yeah, you do.
01:14:35.840 --> 01:14:37.199
You could feel it.
01:14:37.680 --> 01:14:39.359
You have to hear it.
01:14:40.159 --> 01:14:41.279
You could just feel it.
01:14:41.680 --> 01:14:42.479
Yeah, good stuff.
01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:43.199
I agree.
01:14:43.279 --> 01:14:43.680
Yeah.
01:14:43.920 --> 01:14:44.319
Yeah.
01:14:44.560 --> 01:14:48.960
Well, I am very, very happy to have the two of you with me.
01:14:49.359 --> 01:14:51.359
Well, I'm excited to be here.
01:14:52.000 --> 01:14:52.399
Yeah.
01:14:53.039 --> 01:15:03.680
So I think we should do this every month, where the three of us come together and we give our audience a little bit of decoding attachment style.
01:15:03.760 --> 01:15:12.239
We'll let them know what we've been seeing on you know, their questions that they're going to be sending into the now subscription program that we've started.
01:15:12.560 --> 01:15:20.159
You could send your questions in and we're going to be answering them here as well as on the subscription and discussing little issues.
01:15:20.880 --> 01:15:22.640
Sound with a pretty good plan.
01:15:23.359 --> 01:15:23.920
All righty.
01:15:24.960 --> 01:15:36.079
Well, guys, don't forget if you have not subscribed to Decoding Attachment Style, please do so and share this episode with your friends, family, and whoever else who may benefit from it.
01:15:36.319 --> 01:15:36.800
Thanks again.
01:15:36.880 --> 01:15:41.279
I'm Annalisa Bahadur, and joining me was Marta and Duncan.
01:15:41.840 --> 01:15:42.800
Thank you.
01:15:43.359 --> 01:15:43.760
Thank you.