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<Tara>Welcome to Cooperative Developer Stories and CooperationWorks! podcast.
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<Tara>I'm your host, Sarah Williams.
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<Tara>Can't wait to hear your stories.
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<Tara>Hey folks, and welcome to Cooperative Development, a CooperationWorks! podcast.
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<Tara>This is the podcast where we get curious, get honest, and get inspired by the people building the cooperative economy, one community at a time.
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<Tara>Here's the thing about our network.
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<Tara>We're a wildly diverse bunch, different backgrounds, different sectors, different corners of the country.
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<Tara>But we all show up believing the same thing, that people working together can build something better than any of us could build alone.
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<Tara>That's what this show is all about.
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<Tara>Every episode, we're pulling up a chair with co-op developers, practitioners, educators, organizers, and movement builders to talk about what's
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<Tara>happening in cooperative development right now.
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<Tara>Expect real stories from the field, tools you can actually use, hard-won lessons and conversations that don't shy away from the tricky stuff.
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<Tara>because this work has real opportunities and real challenges and we want to talk about both.
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<Tara>So whether you've been in this work for 20 years or you're just starting to wonder what cooperative development even looks like, you're in the right place.
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<Tara>Our hope that you walk away from every episode with a stronger practice, a bigger network, and at least one new idea worth bringing home to your community.
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<Tara>Glad you're here.
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<Tara>Let's get into it.
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<Esther West>Thank you.
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<Esther West>Thank you so much.
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<Esther West>It's great to be here.
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<Esther West>My name is Esther West and I currently work at Shared Capital Cooperative.
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<Esther West>I've been there almost four years now, which is exciting.
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<Esther West>And I do a mix.
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<Esther West>I was a loan officer and now I do have incorporated some TA into my work as well and programmatic outreach and racial justice, so that's been good.
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<Esther West>And my background with cooperative development, which I like to look through the lens or call cooperative organizing and my own methodology or framework, has been with-- let's see here.
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<Esther West>I suppose it depends how you define it.
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<Esther West>But peer-to-peer, I'd say I've been a worker owner at EqualXchange and the Ashani Group.
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<Esther West>And then I've done-- I was a trained co-op developer for the first time at the UW Center for Cooperatives, where I kind of entered in through the research angle and analysis angle and past experience with equal exchange angle.
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<Esther West>And then I've done co-op organizing through the Ajani Group and also the US Federation of Worker Cooperatives Co-op Clinic as a peer advisor.
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<Esther West>and their former group.
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<Esther West>I was briefly part of their former group as well.
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<Esther West>But yeah, so that's more or less it.
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<Tara>So what drew you into this work?
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<Tara>What attracted you to doing it?
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<Esther West>Yeah, you know, I was lucky to be raised by parents who lived out their values of caring for their communities.
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<Esther West>And they did that through community organizing.
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<Esther West>And my dad stayed on and stayed a community organizer throughout his whole life and used the worker co-op model as a tool for social, economic, racial justice.
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<Esther West>And then my mom went on to become a doctor.
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<Esther West>So, you know, I had those examples in my life of just how to live out your values and
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<Esther West>treat you know try to learn how to treat people as best you can in society and create the world you want to see and so that was instilled in me but what drew me me as an adult you know into this work I I had been in fair trade a lot you know I'd done a ton of
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<Esther West>engagement with fair trade when I was in high school and college before it got, the floor is cool, you know, it was cool in other countries first, but, and it was just getting going in the US at the time, like, you know, right before the big boom.
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<Esther West>And equal exchange has been around since the 80s.
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<Esther West>So it was really exciting to get to work there.
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<Esther West>And I had done some organizing around like organic food, that sort of thing in an undergrad.
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<Esther West>And then did some teaching for a while.
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<Esther West>And then eventually got this opportunity when I was 24 to work at Equal Exchange as a worker owner.
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<Esther West>And that was so big.
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<Esther West>It was like the dream.
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<Esther West>I grew up reading their annual reports.
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<Esther West>My dad would bring them home.
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<Esther West>And so I recognized Rank and Rob.
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<Esther West>I'm like, oh, yeah.
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<Esther West>I didn't even know what I was reading about capital stacks or whatever in there.
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<Esther West>reports, but I was like, oh yeah, I've read about, you know, I'm so excited.
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<Esther West>It was like fangirling, you know, like definitely like, definitely the Midwest.
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<Esther West>I grew up in Cincinnati and I definitely have the Midwest lack of chill, you know, compared to their Bostonian ways.
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<Esther West>So I was like, you know, it's a little cultural learning curve.
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<Esther West>And I'm Chicana, you know, so proudly.
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<Esther West>And you know, but like, I think like,
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<Esther West>Just seeing all the ways that throughout the supply chain, I just saw it reinforced that this is something that can change lives.
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<Esther West>Co-ops can change lives.
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<Esther West>And there are some both very like strong ways to do it, like secondary co-ops and associations and, you know, like having a credit union or something.
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<Esther West>and worker co-ops.
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<Esther West>But then also like there are a lot of different variations that that can take place in different communities to meet different community needs.
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<Esther West>And then I went to grad school for environmental studies after, you know, seeing how climate change impacted the farming communities we worked with from the from I was I was at equal from 2008 to 2013.
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<Esther West>And in those five years, I just saw the dramatic ways climate change was impacting the farmers we worked with all over the world.
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<Esther West>like on Mount Kilimanjaro they had to keep moving their their crops up the mountain and that at the time that just blew my mind you know I mean I mean I I you know I was raised knowing that climate change was happening and on the way um but to hear to me that was like at that time that was such a
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<Esther West>For example, like Mount Kilimanjaro, you know, it's like such a place, a special place on the earth.
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<Esther West>And to hear that that climate was changing was like, it like hurts, you know, it hurt.
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<Esther West>And or like, for example, the farmers would experience like, you know, maybe coffee rust wiping out crops or
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<Esther West>or, you know, were weather conditions that made their coffee even more rare, like river, and therefore more valuable.
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<Esther West>And then people would attack the farmers on the way to market sometimes, and sometimes once in a while someone would die from these attacks.
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<Esther West>And it was really sad.
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<Esther West>And I was like, wow, this is really serious, you know?
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<Esther West>So I wanted to go into climate change for climate justice reasons.
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<Esther West>So I went to environmental studies and then added urban planning and GIS at grad school.
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<Esther West>So developed up some research background and then that's how I eventually through the back door of research and urban planning kind of and co-ops got into the job at UWCC.
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<Tara>Wow, what an incredible journey.
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<Tara>Have you had a mentor or an experience or project that's really shaped you in this co-op development space?
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<Esther West>Thank you.
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<Esther West>Yeah.
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<Esther West>Well, okay, like three people come to mind.
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<Esther West>So my parents are two of them.
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<Esther West>Like definitely like my mom from being someone who like has taken a lot of risk.
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<Esther West>Like she's a Chicana doctor in the 70s.
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<Esther West>Like she grew up in poverty and became a psychiatrist when I don't know, like that was very rare and she experienced
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<Esther West>so much discrimination you know and she's still done it she became a psychiatrist and she is practicing you know um and just like connecting her like the way she lived out her values of care for community and her own work like she got a lot of low very low income people access to medicine for free in her role she that was a huge
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<Esther West>part of her job for year decades like was getting folks access.
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<Esther West>And and then my and and you know, like what it means to have family experience with social injustices.
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<Esther West>You know, for example, my grandparents, my my grandpa worked in a factory and they both had Parkinson's, you know, because he was exposed to a lot of chemicals for a long period of time in the factories.
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<Esther West>And, you know, so, you know, I've seen the impact on families, physical and mental health and well-being when jobs are not good, you know, or when times are hard.
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<Esther West>I've seen the impacts and lived those impacts myself.
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<Esther West>So I want to like, I want to create healthy communities for people.
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<Esther West>And then my dad obviously like, oh my gosh, you know, I just feel
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<Esther West>I can't express how much I learned from him and, you know, putting all this work in a community organizing framework, like not to lose sight of our ultimate goal of why we're doing co-ops.
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<Esther West>And then the third person is Dr.
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<Esther West>Jessica Gordon Imhard, who's very dear to my heart.
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<Esther West>Yeah, she's just been, she actually, my dad actually worked together and
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<Esther West>before he passed and um before I was in before I was even you know in co-ops myself really and she she and I have worked on a bunch of research together and you know she helped me get when I was at UWCC she she co-signed to be co-author of that let you know helped me with that Latinx co-op power research that I did and um
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<Esther West>really, really, really supportive kind person and just we've had so many good conversations over the years and just trying to understand the different landscapes as it's changed over the years and
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<Esther West>you know, she's really helped me grow a lot.
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<Esther West>So I appreciate her so much.
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<Esther West>Yeah.
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<Tara>Yeah, that's amazing.
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<Tara>I feel like every time you talk about your parents, I'm so inspired is that you grew up in this household where, you know, cooperation was clearly part of your identity and how you grew up.
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<Tara>So yeah, it's absolutely incredible.
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<Tara>And
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<Tara>In any stories I've heard you tell, it's definitely where you find your power.
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<Tara>So thank you so much for sharing that with us.
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<Tara>When you think about cooperative development, what are some skills or techniques that you have in your practice that you've learned throughout your journey?
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<Esther West>One thing that comes to mind is practicality is really important and making this work.
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<Esther West>making this work accessible and making sure that we see that we are, we're in this together.
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<Esther West>And so people can, it's important to me that people can see themselves in this work and what they're doing and have ownership over it.
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<Esther West>So like I try not to, I, you know, I could talk in jargon, but I think, you know, I actively don't
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<Esther West>or because I want it to be-- I don't want to make this feel like something inaccessible to folks.
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<Esther West>And so much of it is easy, in some ways, somewhat easy to break down.
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<Esther West>I'm like, even with lending, I was like, OK, would you rather have-- would you rather spend a loan on this or this?
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<Esther West>Something that brings you money back or something that's just kind of frivolous, and people have obviously this.
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<Esther West>And I'm like, you already know how to do this.
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<Esther West>Like you already know what to look for.
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<Esther West>You know, like we all have the instinct in us and it's like, or just like practical instinct and just being kind of like, okay, like, yeah, I can think through this.
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<Esther West>So I think like just like believing in each other and our capacity to like build something more beautiful too, if we can like let go of some of our own
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<Esther West>egos of like being the one who's right all the time or something, but like rather like listening and every, every time I work with a co-op, I learn something and grow every single time.
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<Esther West>Like I just like I learn something new and we learn, we grow together.
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<Esther West>Because, you know, I approach this as like, we're building this together.
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<Esther West>So I think, I think those are some things and just like listening to the people, you know, who I'm working with.
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<Esther West>It's not like I'm like a passive, it's not a passive thing.
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<Esther West>It's an active listener, right?
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<Esther West>So like, you know, sometimes I think folks can misinterpret, like, recuritivism as, as like, just kind of like going with the flow or, you know, not necessarily being so confident or active, but
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<Esther West>In reality, our society isn't used to talking about cooperativism.
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<Esther West>And so basically what I'm trying to say is that we're trying to build something together and grow something together.
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<Esther West>And that's an active thing.
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<Tara>When you're working with groups and either use when you're working as a developer or I know you're in that lending space as well, what does that experience really look like?
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<Tara>Like how do you work with people, how do you build that kind of trust you were talking about?
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<Tara>and be in that active listening space.
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<Esther West>Yeah, I always just start with listening, you know, like, hey, tell me your story.
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<Esther West>And even how they frame their own story gives me information.
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<Esther West>As a lender in underwriting, you know, we'll look at their financials, which tells a story as well, and how they're approaching them or how they're approaching their community.
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<Esther West>You know, for example, let's see here.
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<Esther West>Yeah, like whose needs are they trying to meet?
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<Esther West>you know, who are the true members, you know, versus, you know, versus customers or versus users, you know, whatever it is, kind of unpacking that.
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<Esther West>And, you know, I'm unpacking that and putting the different components into a, you know, what I understand is co-op development framework.
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<Esther West>Like, okay, like, yeah, who are the members of articles bylaws?
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<Esther West>You know, where are they with that?
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<Esther West>Do they have a business plan if it's a business or, or housing plan, if it's housing co-op, for example?
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<Esther West>How invested are the people?
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<Esther West>Are there obstacles that get in the way to them succeeding?
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<Esther West>What are those?
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<Esther West>How do we navigate those?
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<Esther West>For example, it can be very hard to have everyone start a full time worker co-op job at the same time, you know, because we all need money.
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<Esther West>Most of us need money to live right besides.
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<Esther West>So, you know, navigating some of that.
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<Esther West>So like creating like stage like like it's okay to take off
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<Esther West>a step at a time or a chunk at a time and take steps at a time to build up towards the co-op.
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<Esther West>So yeah, I think I think like listening and then kind of understanding it within these different elements and frameworks and what are their strengths, you know, do a little SWOT analysis in my head, you know, and then create resource or share.
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<Esther West>I always share a ton of resources.
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<Esther West>I'm always like emailing people stuff like, hey, like here's a good peer-to-peer conference or
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<Esther West>association or here's a great resource for your, you know, for how much you can afford.
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<Esther West>Here's a good TA provider, you know, in your area, or here's a good bookkeeper or whatever it is.
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<Esther West>So I think of facilitator roles.
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<Esther West>a hat I wear.
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<Tara>Yeah, definitely that kind of triage center point.
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<Tara>That sounds incredible that you're able to have access to that and share those resources with the communities that you're working with.
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<Tara>Yeah.
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<Tara>What skills do you think make someone a really strong co-op developer?
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<Esther West>I think like having been part of, I think it helps to have been a co-op member, especially for the groups you're working with.
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<Esther West>Or if you're coming from the industry, if you have a specific industry expertise that can help too, but you don't have to have it.
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<Esther West>But you can always pull in people who meet those other needs, but like gaps that you don't, like I'm not a CPA, I'm not an accountant, I'm not a lawyer.
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<Esther West>So I can help with the basics, but then I hand them off to someone else.
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<Esther West>I like to say that at Shared Capital, for example, we all bring our different like co-op eyes because we've all been like co-op members and different
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<Esther West>ways or staff, you know, or grew up with co-ops in different ways.
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<Esther West>Like I shared my story and then another coworker grew up with like farming co-ops in their rural Minnesotan town, you know, or another person like worked at a grocery co-op, you know, stuff like that.
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<Esther West>So we all bring our different experiences with cooperatives.
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<Esther West>So I think like I try to put on that hat when I meet with people.
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<Esther West>Like what would I want if I were them?
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<Esther West>Like if I was trying to meet, if I was trying to grow co-op, what would feel doable to me as a first step?
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<Esther West>What would feel like reasonable?
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<Esther West>What would feel like concrete and like practical, like smart, you know, be wise about it.
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<Esther West>And then also just connecting to different resources.
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<Esther West>So like resources at different levels, like third, for example, maybe
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<Esther West>getting to know what resources are there through the different city, the city budget or the grants or fellow partners in the ecosystem, you know, and what are opportunities to change a policy to make it better.
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<Esther West>or, you know, more amenable to co-ops or maybe it's like a regional level or, you know, I do think one area that we can continue to grow on is strengthening supply chain connections with cooperatives.
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<Esther West>I think there's a huge opportunity for growth in our movement if we really like led with the co-op value, like co-op part.
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<Tara>Another example of P6 in action is definitely through supply chain.
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<Tara>management.
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<Tara>Can you tell me about a, has there been a moment in this work that's made you think, this is why I do this work?
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<Esther West>Just like, like, I feel like with so many groups, like just getting to connect around when they see that, that it's possible to do this and I, you feel their like excitement and like inspiration and like, there's always, it's like this co-op feeling.
00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.000
<Esther West>I feel like I just get, it's just like,
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<Esther West>every time it just really touches my heart um I think like yeah and I think like the groups that do like like there's so many housing co-ops that do anti-gentrification or like ask them where day coffee shop is a you know an awesome worker co-op out in Oakland and they do a ton of community work and anti-gentrification and with within their just who they are you know as a co-op um and business
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:55.000
<Esther West>I love, I love all Firestorm out in North Carolina. They're a bookstore, coffee shop co-op, and they do, they're so rooted in their communities. I just really appreciate what they do. Yeah, I love Pecan Milk Co-op in Georgia. They do a ton for, you know, like with their communities and
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<Esther West>to build better jobs and healthy foods, you know. The Hmong Farmers Association, they do a ton of really cool like farming, you know, their farmer co-op and shared grounds. They're a Latino farmer. They were a Latino farmer co-op. They were really inspirational. Like just for how people are organizing to have ownership in areas that we haven't always been able to have access to.
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<Esther West>like one of my goals is to like one day convert all the farms and in you know to the farm workers you know ownership so that they're owned by the workers like I don't know I I just um I would love that like you know um and either or like the car wash co-op out in um um in LA like they they do a lot of good work and you know like I I think
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<Esther West>And then the home care co-ops, sorry, now you can't get me stopped. I can't stop. The home care co-ops, like a lot of them just do such important work for people and they're in a very hard industry, very, very hard. So it just like boggles my mind how many people are so dedicated to this work.
00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:44.000
<Esther West>And how can I wonder like, you know, I think like how can we tap in as co-op developers or organizers when you put on that organizing hat, how can we tap into other movements that support them as workers, whether that's through policy or, you know, having a union co-op or something so we have access to greater union support.
00:22:44.000 --> 00:23:06.000
<Esther West>and also like people's experiences with police or ICE. How can we advocate for people as whole people? You know, these are not just like, these are not just checks on a list for a grant. These are people. I'm here for the people and I love them, you know, and
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<Esther West>It's an honor to work with each other.
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<Tara>Can you maybe tell me about a time when things didn't go the way that you'd hoped that they were going to go? And so this could be with the lender hat on or with your developer hat on and how you supported and got through that because it's clear that your passion is there and comes through for supporting. But as a developer, one of the hardest things that we can go through is
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:41.000
<Tara>a co-op winding down or them not going in the direction that we were hoping to support them through.
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<Esther West>Something I've had to learn is how to balance empathy and that
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<Esther West>Personal connection. Sometimes I'm working with actual friends who I've known forever, you know, who are starting a co-op and, you know, or sometimes I'm like, oh my gosh, I just really want to join this co-op now. Like, you know, like it's just, I get excited. I mean, I, you know, I have my logical head on, but my heart, you know, I'm like, oh. So it can be hard with, it can be hard to maintain, like you have to learn how to, like for me, I've had to learn how to maintain that strength of like,
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:38.000
<Esther West>to tap into my somewhat more logical self of how can we learn from this and make it better for next time or, you know, what happened, assess my own role versus like, what did I have control over or not? Was it that I didn't provide the right resources or they weren't the right style?
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:45.000
<Esther West>or whatever it was, or insights, or was it like people just weren't showing up to meetings?
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<Tara>Has there been a time where you've worked with a group and they've been unsuccessful or they'd had to wind down operations or maybe, I don't know, as a lender or as a developer, if you've been in those experiences where
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<Tara>You know, things didn't go quite the way we had hoped they were going to go.
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<Esther West>Especially with the lender hat on, I've worked tens if not hundreds of groups, right? Like co-ops. And so, you know, that happens from time to time. And I think, yeah, just being able to grow from the experience is really important. And to problem solve, talk with other people, you know, just like be okay, like, you know, be okay with like growth and learning and being like, oh, I could have done this or,
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:49.000
<Esther West>Oh, here's what happened. Or like, I wish they, I really wish they had done this because I invested a lot of time in it too. And I really wish they had followed through more or, you know, it's okay too, you know what I mean? But it's not my co-op at the end of the day. So that's, you know, that's okay too.
00:25:49.000 --> 00:26:11.000
<Esther West>I think like one thing is like just being aware of be like strong in who you are, you know, like all doing this together, like we're in this together, we're figuring it out together. This is not like a easy fit with our capitalistic white supremacist society. Like we got to figure it out together. And then also, I'll just say like generally maybe
00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:39.000
<Esther West>Something I think about a lot is that I think society is quick to call things that don't last forever failures. And I think that's true with co-ops or businesses or even relationships. And I think there can still be a lot of beauty that comes out of a short-term thing or a medium-term co-op.
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<Esther West>Dad helped start a co-op in Cincinnati through his nonprofit called, his nonprofit was Interfaith Business Builders, and then the co-op was Community Blend. And it was like, they redeveloped, they like, he didn't have much money, but he was able to get, like, recompile resources to update this building in a historically African American neighborhood.
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:35.000
<Esther West>and make it into a coffee shop. And then he like passed away real sudden, right? My dad. And right when it was getting off the ground and it was like really hard and everyone was like, you know, going through it just like, it was just like really hard. So, you know, it was hard because eventually, like I tried to help it keep going before I had real co-op development training. I did what I could, but like eventually it closed.
00:27:35.000 --> 00:28:02.000
<Esther West>But, you know, the next, but then later a group of African American women took over that spot as a coffee shop. And it wasn't a co-op, but it wasn't there before. It wasn't a coffee shop before. It was just a vacant building. And it became, it still became a special place, you know? And to me that's a long-term win in another way.
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:21.000
<Esther West>So and like the experience of creating this coffee shop brought a lot of people together that may not have otherwise met even or worked together and learned how to be cooperative together. So yeah, I like to reframe it a little.
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:29.000
<Tara>Yeah, that's a really special story, Esther. Thank you so much for sharing it. So what have you personally learned from doing this work?
00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:41.000
<Tara>And is there something that you wish you knew when you started? I feel like you've probably been doing co-op development alongside your parents since you were walking, but let's see here.
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:43.000
<Esther West>Oh wait, so like what have I learned since the early days?
00:28:43.000 --> 00:28:48.000
<Tara>Yeah, what have you learned from doing this work?
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:57.000
<Esther West>Oh, yeah. Number one, man, okay, like again, like number one, we're just in this together, figuring it out. If I start
00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:23.000
<Esther West>thinking of myself as like the expert professional, I don't know. Like, I feel like it starts creating a barrier between me and my ability to really listen and be there with people. And I think just being open to growth and understanding that the world is always going to be very dynamic and
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:48.000
<Esther West>How do we maintain our values and principles of cooperativism as the world constantly shifts around, you know, whatever that looks like. And yeah, I think like staying rooted in those values of solidarity and care for each other, I think that's my biggest takeaway. And just like keeping abreast of the latest things, you know?
00:29:48.000 --> 00:30:12.000
<Esther West>as best we can, like keeping active and learning and growing and networks. So I think those are kind of continually learning while remaining rooted in our values is my big takeaway. Yeah. Yeah. And like facilitating those connections to each, you know, to different groups and people and, and just like, you know, like I don't, I don't know what's.
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:20.000
<Esther West>best for a group, like I'm not them, you know, you know, so it's like, okay, like, can we learn together?
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:26.000
<Tara>Can you talk a little bit about the research and the report that you did on Latinx co-op power?
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<Esther West>Let's see here. Well, it was, well, first of all, shout out to Cooperative Development Foundation for the grant, the co-op education grant. And I did it while I was at UW
00:30:40.000 --> 00:31:09.000
<Esther West>Center for Cooperatives and with with Doctor and and then Doctor Jessica Gordon Nemhard. She doesn't work there, but she she was a collaborator on it with me. We did a bunch of research and outreach in around around 2019. And came up with a few different takeaways and kind of a baseline point of where
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:39.000
<Esther West>Latinx co-ops were at the time. I believe they've grown substantially since, so I'd love to do another similar project just to see, compare trends and get a trend line going. But yeah, and even like doing research and data, a lot of people think of it as a very objective thing and there are good standardized practices that are important to follow.
00:31:39.000 --> 00:32:03.000
<Esther West>And a lot of the quality of the information and data you collect are also based on your own knowledge and relationships and insights. And so I think that's where it's really important to have diverse researchers. And something that I took away, like there are a lot of credit unions
00:32:03.000 --> 00:32:31.000
<Esther West>that have really nice products specifically for immigrants and also Spanish speaking Latine people. And then there are a ton of, there are a ton of like takeaways for developer that may be useful to co-op developers in the report, like facilitating those connections. Like a lot of times, like maybe might be hard to find banking resources. So go to one of these credit unions, you know, or go to Shared Capital. We don't
00:32:31.000 --> 00:32:59.000
<Esther West>We don't look, we don't ask or look for social security numbers or IKNs. We don't do personal credit scores, you know, that sort of thing. And we had been working on another document that never got published, unfortunately, but I have some additional information on different types of models and pluses and benefits around those for
00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:29.000
<Esther West>you know, based on research with Latinx communities. You know, I think I try to situate that work into the broader Latinx context whenever I can, because I think, you know, we're part of this broader community. We got to think about our needs and trends. You know, that's where some of the farm worker justice comes in, I think, or like ownership. In my mind, I'd love to do like conversions of farms to worker ownership of the farm workers with that on the head, you know,
00:33:29.000 --> 00:33:57.000
<Esther West>And also like climate justice issues, like, you know, a lot of folks have been, like farm workers have faced climate justice impacts. And how do we stand up as a movement for workers generally, you know? And then also home care workers, you know, there are a lot of Latine home, like the biggest worker co-op in the country has a maybe majority Latine community, I'm not sure.
00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:25.000
<Esther West>CHCA in the Bronx and they're a home care co-op. They do amazing work. So yeah, like, and then the Latinas specifically have a huge rate of entrepreneurialism compared to other demographics. So like, how can we tap into that? How can we say, hey, the co-op model could be a good tool for doing like backend services as, you know, a form of secondary co-op.
00:34:25.000 --> 00:34:52.000
<Esther West>you know, for back end services for all these smaller entrepreneurial groups, you know, something like that. Or no, and it makes sense because our wage gap is tremendous, you know, it's huge. It takes almost a year like until October for Latinas to compensate for what the average white dude makes the year prior. And that that includes educational levels and job types. So
00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:55.000
<Esther West>you know, it's not like because of the industry they're in.
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<Tara>Do you have any words of advice for people working with the Latine communities when it comes to co-op development?
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<Esther West>Yeah, you know, I think, I think like getting to know who you're working with, you know, they're like, I think 39 different nationalities. I think 30, 39 in the country, you know, from different countries and then
00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:49.000
<Esther West>You know, try to get a Spanish speaker if that's who, you know, the language people are speaking. And then I think like listening to, like asking, like saying, hey, here's some different ways we could structure our work together. Do you want, like, do folks have time to give input on the structure or, and like be really involved in it? Or does it, or would it be helpful for the co-op developer to create kind of like a,
00:35:49.000 --> 00:36:13.000
<Esther West>a bill a build model like a a build model that people can then just be hired into with with more democratic practices as people have stayed more and more stable jobs you know so I think working with the community that way I think like connecting to
00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:43.000
<Esther West>Banking resources, if that might be an issue. The current federal administration is making that harder and harder. So how can co-ops just keep supporting each other in meeting our community's needs? Yeah, and then just like connecting with folks, like helping connect with other Latinate co-ops across the country. You could look at that report or Google, you know, or look at the US Federation worker co-ops or other, you know, examples, but like to find other examples, but like I think there's
00:36:43.000 --> 00:37:10.000
<Esther West>Especially like if people don't come from like a predominantly Latino community, like California or Texas. Like I grew up in a very, like Cincinnati in the 80s was very low Latine percentage. So it was very isolated. I was very isolated, which was kind of sad. You know, now I'm in Milwaukee, which is awesome. It's like a fifth Latine, but
00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:31.000
<Esther West>You know, I think it means a lot if you're from a community of Latine folks that are somewhat isolated from others. It means a lot to connect with other people is what I've felt and seen in other people. So just like facilitating those relationships.
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:37.000
<Tara>Any last pieces of advice for people looking to get into co-op development?
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<Esther West>I think like last little advice.
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<Esther West>is besides like thinking about how you want to approach this work, like for me, like the quote, you know, I like to frame it within a community organizing perspective as best I can most, you know, for the most part and solidarity perspective. I also want to just say, like, remind folks to take care of themselves and not get burnt out as best they can.
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<Esther West>I like to tell like sometimes people come to us as as a borrow as a potential borrowers at shared capital and be like, well, we don't have to get paid for the first year. And I'm like, hey, we're not in the business of self-exploitation. Like a little school equity is fine. You know, some of that's fine. But we also really don't want you to burn yourself out. And I've seen that happen sometimes and
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<Esther West>you know, just just like making sure to like, uh, enjoy, you know, take care of yourself and enjoy your life and what you're doing as best as possible. And more and more I'm trying to like figure out ways to make things enjoyable to do them. So like we do these like regional BIPOC gatherings that are specifically explicitly not meetings.
00:39:02.000 --> 00:39:30.000
<Esther West>But we talk about co-op stuff anyway, but it's just like whatever naturally arises. And so it's like, we have to build those relationships and trust together and just like, learn what it means to be in community and be able to call on each other if we need help as friends, you know? So, you know, it's a learning, it's a growth process of how to live in this world and community in these current circumstances, but it's,
00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:32.000
<Esther West>exciting and an honor to do the work.
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<Tara>Is there anything else you want to add or we're hoping that I was going to cover today?
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<Esther West>Yeah, I really appreciate CW, CooperationWorks!. I think it's an incredible network and resource. I use it all the time. Yeah, I'm like, oh man, this is so good. You know, someone will ask a question. I'm like, whoa, that's good. And yeah, I think like,
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<Esther West>just like have fun with it. Like I'm excited to whoever's out there listening, like it's exciting to get to meet you one day, I hope, and learn about your journey. So thank you.
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<Tara>Thanks so much, Hester.
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<Tara>Really appreciate your time and getting to know you a bit more in this space.
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<Tara>Esther, thank you so much for taking the time to share your story and your insights with us today.
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<Tara>This was a great conversation.
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<Tara>If you want to learn more about Esther's work, you can check out.
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<Tara>Esther, thank you so much for taking the time to share your story and your insight with us today.
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<Tara>This was a great conversation.
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<Tara>If you want to learn more about Esther's work, we encourage you to check out her report on Latinx cooperative research published by the University of Wisconsin.
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.000
<Tara>Check out the show notes for a link.
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<Tara>You can also find out more about the work Esther does with Shared Capital Cooperative and as a worker owner of the Ajani Group in the links included in the show notes.
00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:04.000
<Tara>Want to connect with more cooperative developers?
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:11.000
<Tara>Visit the CooperationWorks! member locator to explore our national network of cooperative developers and development centers.
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<Tara>You might even discover a member organization working right in your own community.
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<Tara>And if you enjoyed this episode, help us strengthen the network.
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<Tara>Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, share this episode with your colleagues in your local co-op development center, and invite others into the conversation.
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<Tara>EveryShare helps us connect developers, exchange ideas, and grow the cooperative movement together.
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<Tara>Thanks for listening to Cooperative Developer Stories, a podcast from CooperationWorks!.
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<Tara>Until next time, keep learning from one another, keep sharing what and keep building the relationships that make cooperation work.
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<Tara>Welcome to Cooperative Developer Stories and CooperationWorks! podcast.
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<Tara>I'm your host, Sarah Williams.
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<Tara>Can't wait to hear your stories.
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<Tara>Hey folks, and welcome to Cooperative Development, a CooperationWorks! podcast.
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<Tara>This is the podcast where we get curious, get honest, and get inspired by the people building the cooperative economy, one community at a time.
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<Tara>Here's the thing about our network.
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<Tara>We're a wildly diverse bunch, different backgrounds, different sectors, different corners of the country.
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<Tara>But we all show up believing the same thing, that people working together can build something better than any of us could build alone.
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<Tara>That's what this show is all about.
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<Tara>Every episode, we're pulling up a chair with co-op developers, practitioners, educators, organizers, and movement builders to talk about what's
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<Tara>happening in cooperative development right now.
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<Tara>Expect real stories from the field, tools you can actually use, hard-won lessons and conversations that don't shy away from the tricky stuff.
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<Tara>because this work has real opportunities and real challenges and we want to talk about both.
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<Tara>So whether you've been in this work for 20 years or you're just starting to wonder what cooperative development even looks like, you're in the right place.
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<Tara>Our hope that you walk away from every episode with a stronger practice, a bigger network, and at least one new idea worth bringing home to your community.
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<Tara>Glad you're here.
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<Tara>Let's get into it.
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<Esther West>Thank you.
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<Esther West>Thank you so much.
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<Esther West>It's great to be here.
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<Esther West>My name is Esther West and I currently work at Shared Capital Cooperative.
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<Esther West>I've been there almost four years now, which is exciting.
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<Esther West>And I do a mix.
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<Esther West>I was a loan officer and now I do have incorporated some TA into my work as well and programmatic outreach and racial justice, so that's been good.
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<Esther West>And my background with cooperative development, which I like to look through the lens or call cooperative organizing and my own methodology or framework, has been with-- let's see here.
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<Esther West>I suppose it depends how you define it.
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<Esther West>But peer-to-peer, I'd say I've been a worker owner at EqualXchange and the Ashani Group.
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<Esther West>And then I've done-- I was a trained co-op developer for the first time at the UW Center for Cooperatives, where I kind of entered in through the research angle and analysis angle and past experience with equal exchange angle.
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<Esther West>And then I've done co-op organizing through the Ajani Group and also the US Federation of Worker Cooperatives Co-op Clinic as a peer advisor.
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<Esther West>and their former group.
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<Esther West>I was briefly part of their former group as well.
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<Esther West>But yeah, so that's more or less it.
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<Tara>So what drew you into this work?
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<Tara>What attracted you to doing it?
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<Esther West>Yeah, you know, I was lucky to be raised by parents who lived out their values of caring for their communities.
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<Esther West>And they did that through community organizing.
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<Esther West>And my dad stayed on and stayed a community organizer throughout his whole life and used the worker co-op model as a tool for social, economic, racial justice.
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<Esther West>And then my mom went on to become a doctor.
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<Esther West>So, you know, I had those examples in my life of just how to live out your values and
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<Esther West>treat you know try to learn how to treat people as best you can in society and create the world you want to see and so that was instilled in me but what drew me me as an adult you know into this work I I had been in fair trade a lot you know I'd done a ton of
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<Esther West>engagement with fair trade when I was in high school and college before it got, the floor is cool, you know, it was cool in other countries first, but, and it was just getting going in the US at the time, like, you know, right before the big boom.
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<Esther West>And equal exchange has been around since the 80s.
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<Esther West>So it was really exciting to get to work there.
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<Esther West>And I had done some organizing around like organic food, that sort of thing in an undergrad.
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<Esther West>And then did some teaching for a while.
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<Esther West>And then eventually got this opportunity when I was 24 to work at Equal Exchange as a worker owner.
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<Esther West>And that was so big.
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<Esther West>It was like the dream.
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<Esther West>I grew up reading their annual reports.
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<Esther West>My dad would bring them home.
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<Esther West>And so I recognized Rank and Rob.
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<Esther West>I'm like, oh, yeah.
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<Esther West>I didn't even know what I was reading about capital stacks or whatever in there.
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<Esther West>reports, but I was like, oh yeah, I've read about, you know, I'm so excited.
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<Esther West>It was like fangirling, you know, like definitely like, definitely the Midwest.
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<Esther West>I grew up in Cincinnati and I definitely have the Midwest lack of chill, you know, compared to their Bostonian ways.
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<Esther West>So I was like, you know, it's a little cultural learning curve.
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<Esther West>And I'm Chicana, you know, so proudly.
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<Esther West>And you know, but like, I think like,
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<Esther West>Just seeing all the ways that throughout the supply chain, I just saw it reinforced that this is something that can change lives.
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<Esther West>Co-ops can change lives.
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<Esther West>And there are some both very like strong ways to do it, like secondary co-ops and associations and, you know, like having a credit union or something.
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<Esther West>and worker co-ops.
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<Esther West>But then also like there are a lot of different variations that that can take place in different communities to meet different community needs.
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<Esther West>And then I went to grad school for environmental studies after, you know, seeing how climate change impacted the farming communities we worked with from the from I was I was at equal from 2008 to 2013.
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<Esther West>And in those five years, I just saw the dramatic ways climate change was impacting the farmers we worked with all over the world.
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<Esther West>like on Mount Kilimanjaro they had to keep moving their their crops up the mountain and that at the time that just blew my mind you know I mean I mean I I you know I was raised knowing that climate change was happening and on the way um but to hear to me that was like at that time that was such a
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<Esther West>For example, like Mount Kilimanjaro, you know, it's like such a place, a special place on the earth.
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<Esther West>And to hear that that climate was changing was like, it like hurts, you know, it hurt.
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<Esther West>And or like, for example, the farmers would experience like, you know, maybe coffee rust wiping out crops or
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<Esther West>or, you know, were weather conditions that made their coffee even more rare, like river, and therefore more valuable.
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<Esther West>And then people would attack the farmers on the way to market sometimes, and sometimes once in a while someone would die from these attacks.
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<Esther West>And it was really sad.
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<Esther West>And I was like, wow, this is really serious, you know?
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<Esther West>So I wanted to go into climate change for climate justice reasons.
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<Esther West>So I went to environmental studies and then added urban planning and GIS at grad school.
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<Esther West>So developed up some research background and then that's how I eventually through the back door of research and urban planning kind of and co-ops got into the job at UWCC.
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<Tara>Wow, what an incredible journey.
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<Tara>Have you had a mentor or an experience or project that's really shaped you in this co-op development space?
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<Esther West>Thank you.
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<Esther West>Yeah.
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<Esther West>Well, okay, like three people come to mind.
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<Esther West>So my parents are two of them.
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<Esther West>Like definitely like my mom from being someone who like has taken a lot of risk.
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<Esther West>Like she's a Chicana doctor in the 70s.
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<Esther West>Like she grew up in poverty and became a psychiatrist when I don't know, like that was very rare and she experienced
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<Esther West>so much discrimination you know and she's still done it she became a psychiatrist and she is practicing you know um and just like connecting her like the way she lived out her values of care for community and her own work like she got a lot of low very low income people access to medicine for free in her role she that was a huge
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<Esther West>part of her job for year decades like was getting folks access.
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<Esther West>And and then my and and you know, like what it means to have family experience with social injustices.
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<Esther West>You know, for example, my grandparents, my my grandpa worked in a factory and they both had Parkinson's, you know, because he was exposed to a lot of chemicals for a long period of time in the factories.
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<Esther West>And, you know, so, you know, I've seen the impact on families, physical and mental health and well-being when jobs are not good, you know, or when times are hard.
00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:13.000
<Esther West>I've seen the impacts and lived those impacts myself.
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<Esther West>So I want to like, I want to create healthy communities for people.
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<Esther West>And then my dad obviously like, oh my gosh, you know, I just feel
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<Esther West>I can't express how much I learned from him and, you know, putting all this work in a community organizing framework, like not to lose sight of our ultimate goal of why we're doing co-ops.
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<Esther West>And then the third person is Dr.
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<Esther West>Jessica Gordon Imhard, who's very dear to my heart.
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<Esther West>Yeah, she's just been, she actually, my dad actually worked together and
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<Esther West>before he passed and um before I was in before I was even you know in co-ops myself really and she she and I have worked on a bunch of research together and you know she helped me get when I was at UWCC she she co-signed to be co-author of that let you know helped me with that Latinx co-op power research that I did and um
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<Esther West>really, really, really supportive kind person and just we've had so many good conversations over the years and just trying to understand the different landscapes as it's changed over the years and
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<Esther West>you know, she's really helped me grow a lot.
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<Esther West>So I appreciate her so much.
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<Esther West>Yeah.
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<Tara>Yeah, that's amazing.
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<Tara>I feel like every time you talk about your parents, I'm so inspired is that you grew up in this household where, you know, cooperation was clearly part of your identity and how you grew up.
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<Tara>So yeah, it's absolutely incredible.
00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:51.000
<Tara>And
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<Tara>In any stories I've heard you tell, it's definitely where you find your power.
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<Tara>So thank you so much for sharing that with us.
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<Tara>When you think about cooperative development, what are some skills or techniques that you have in your practice that you've learned throughout your journey?
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<Esther West>One thing that comes to mind is practicality is really important and making this work.
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<Esther West>making this work accessible and making sure that we see that we are, we're in this together.
00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:35.000
<Esther West>And so people can, it's important to me that people can see themselves in this work and what they're doing and have ownership over it.
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<Esther West>So like I try not to, I, you know, I could talk in jargon, but I think, you know, I actively don't
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<Esther West>or because I want it to be-- I don't want to make this feel like something inaccessible to folks.
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<Esther West>And so much of it is easy, in some ways, somewhat easy to break down.
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<Esther West>I'm like, even with lending, I was like, OK, would you rather have-- would you rather spend a loan on this or this?
00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:09.000
<Esther West>Something that brings you money back or something that's just kind of frivolous, and people have obviously this.
00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:11.000
<Esther West>And I'm like, you already know how to do this.
00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.000
<Esther West>Like you already know what to look for.
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<Esther West>You know, like we all have the instinct in us and it's like, or just like practical instinct and just being kind of like, okay, like, yeah, I can think through this.
00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:38.000
<Esther West>So I think like just like believing in each other and our capacity to like build something more beautiful too, if we can like let go of some of our own
00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:51.000
<Esther West>egos of like being the one who's right all the time or something, but like rather like listening and every, every time I work with a co-op, I learn something and grow every single time.
00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:58.000
<Esther West>Like I just like I learn something new and we learn, we grow together.
00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:01.000
<Esther West>Because, you know, I approach this as like, we're building this together.
00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:08.000
<Esther West>So I think, I think those are some things and just like listening to the people, you know, who I'm working with.
00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:10.000
<Esther West>It's not like I'm like a passive, it's not a passive thing.
00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:12.000
<Esther West>It's an active listener, right?
00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:27.000
<Esther West>So like, you know, sometimes I think folks can misinterpret, like, recuritivism as, as like, just kind of like going with the flow or, you know, not necessarily being so confident or active, but
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<Esther West>In reality, our society isn't used to talking about cooperativism.
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<Esther West>And so basically what I'm trying to say is that we're trying to build something together and grow something together.
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<Esther West>And that's an active thing.
00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:51.000
<Tara>When you're working with groups and either use when you're working as a developer or I know you're in that lending space as well, what does that experience really look like?
00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:56.000
<Tara>Like how do you work with people, how do you build that kind of trust you were talking about?
00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:59.000
<Tara>and be in that active listening space.
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<Esther West>Yeah, I always just start with listening, you know, like, hey, tell me your story.
00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:06.000
<Esther West>And even how they frame their own story gives me information.
00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:15.000
<Esther West>As a lender in underwriting, you know, we'll look at their financials, which tells a story as well, and how they're approaching them or how they're approaching their community.
00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.000
<Esther West>You know, for example, let's see here.
00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:20.000
<Esther West>Yeah, like whose needs are they trying to meet?
00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:29.000
<Esther West>you know, who are the true members, you know, versus, you know, versus customers or versus users, you know, whatever it is, kind of unpacking that.
00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:37.000
<Esther West>And, you know, I'm unpacking that and putting the different components into a, you know, what I understand is co-op development framework.
00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:41.000
<Esther West>Like, okay, like, yeah, who are the members of articles bylaws?
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<Esther West>You know, where are they with that?
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<Esther West>Do they have a business plan if it's a business or, or housing plan, if it's housing co-op, for example?
00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:51.000
<Esther West>How invested are the people?
00:15:51.000 --> 00:15:54.000
<Esther West>Are there obstacles that get in the way to them succeeding?
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<Esther West>What are those?
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<Esther West>How do we navigate those?
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<Esther West>For example, it can be very hard to have everyone start a full time worker co-op job at the same time, you know, because we all need money.
00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:08.000
<Esther West>Most of us need money to live right besides.
00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.000
<Esther West>So, you know, navigating some of that.
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<Esther West>So like creating like stage like like it's okay to take off
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<Esther West>a step at a time or a chunk at a time and take steps at a time to build up towards the co-op.
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<Esther West>So yeah, I think I think like listening and then kind of understanding it within these different elements and frameworks and what are their strengths, you know, do a little SWOT analysis in my head, you know, and then create resource or share.
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<Esther West>I always share a ton of resources.
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<Esther West>I'm always like emailing people stuff like, hey, like here's a good peer-to-peer conference or
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<Esther West>association or here's a great resource for your, you know, for how much you can afford.
00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:57.000
<Esther West>Here's a good TA provider, you know, in your area, or here's a good bookkeeper or whatever it is.
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<Esther West>So I think of facilitator roles.
00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:01.000
<Esther West>a hat I wear.
00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:04.000
<Tara>Yeah, definitely that kind of triage center point.
00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:12.000
<Tara>That sounds incredible that you're able to have access to that and share those resources with the communities that you're working with.
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.000
<Tara>Yeah.
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:17.000
<Tara>What skills do you think make someone a really strong co-op developer?
00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:27.000
<Esther West>I think like having been part of, I think it helps to have been a co-op member, especially for the groups you're working with.
00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:33.000
<Esther West>Or if you're coming from the industry, if you have a specific industry expertise that can help too, but you don't have to have it.
00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:42.000
<Esther West>But you can always pull in people who meet those other needs, but like gaps that you don't, like I'm not a CPA, I'm not an accountant, I'm not a lawyer.
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:46.000
<Esther West>So I can help with the basics, but then I hand them off to someone else.
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<Esther West>I like to say that at Shared Capital, for example, we all bring our different like co-op eyes because we've all been like co-op members and different
00:17:56.000 --> 00:18:00.000
<Esther West>ways or staff, you know, or grew up with co-ops in different ways.
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<Esther West>Like I shared my story and then another coworker grew up with like farming co-ops in their rural Minnesotan town, you know, or another person like worked at a grocery co-op, you know, stuff like that.
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:18.000
<Esther West>So we all bring our different experiences with cooperatives.
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<Esther West>So I think like I try to put on that hat when I meet with people.
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<Esther West>Like what would I want if I were them?
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<Esther West>Like if I was trying to meet, if I was trying to grow co-op, what would feel doable to me as a first step?
00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:33.000
<Esther West>What would feel like reasonable?
00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:38.000
<Esther West>What would feel like concrete and like practical, like smart, you know, be wise about it.
00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:41.000
<Esther West>And then also just connecting to different resources.
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<Esther West>So like resources at different levels, like third, for example, maybe
00:18:45.000 --> 00:19:02.000
<Esther West>getting to know what resources are there through the different city, the city budget or the grants or fellow partners in the ecosystem, you know, and what are opportunities to change a policy to make it better.
00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:16.000
<Esther West>or, you know, more amenable to co-ops or maybe it's like a regional level or, you know, I do think one area that we can continue to grow on is strengthening supply chain connections with cooperatives.
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:25.000
<Esther West>I think there's a huge opportunity for growth in our movement if we really like led with the co-op value, like co-op part.
00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:30.000
<Tara>Another example of P6 in action is definitely through supply chain.
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:31.000
<Tara>management.
00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:38.000
<Tara>Can you tell me about a, has there been a moment in this work that's made you think, this is why I do this work?
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:55.000
<Esther West>Just like, like, I feel like with so many groups, like just getting to connect around when they see that, that it's possible to do this and I, you feel their like excitement and like inspiration and like, there's always, it's like this co-op feeling.
00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:59.000
<Esther West>I feel like I just get, it's just like,
00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:29.000
<Esther West>every time it just really touches my heart um I think like yeah and I think like the groups that do like like there's so many housing co-ops that do anti-gentrification or like ask them where day coffee shop is a you know an awesome worker co-op out in Oakland and they do a ton of community work and anti-gentrification and with within their just who they are you know as a co-op um and business
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:55.000
<Esther West>I love, I love all Firestorm out in North Carolina. They're a bookstore, coffee shop co-op, and they do, they're so rooted in their communities. I just really appreciate what they do. Yeah, I love Pecan Milk Co-op in Georgia. They do a ton for, you know, like with their communities and
00:20:55.000 --> 00:21:25.000
<Esther West>to build better jobs and healthy foods, you know. The Hmong Farmers Association, they do a ton of really cool like farming, you know, their farmer co-op and shared grounds. They're a Latino farmer. They were a Latino farmer co-op. They were really inspirational. Like just for how people are organizing to have ownership in areas that we haven't always been able to have access to.
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:54.000
<Esther West>like one of my goals is to like one day convert all the farms and in you know to the farm workers you know ownership so that they're owned by the workers like I don't know I I just um I would love that like you know um and either or like the car wash co-op out in um um in LA like they they do a lot of good work and you know like I I think
00:21:54.000 --> 00:22:17.000
<Esther West>And then the home care co-ops, sorry, now you can't get me stopped. I can't stop. The home care co-ops, like a lot of them just do such important work for people and they're in a very hard industry, very, very hard. So it just like boggles my mind how many people are so dedicated to this work.
00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:44.000
<Esther West>And how can I wonder like, you know, I think like how can we tap in as co-op developers or organizers when you put on that organizing hat, how can we tap into other movements that support them as workers, whether that's through policy or, you know, having a union co-op or something so we have access to greater union support.
00:22:44.000 --> 00:23:06.000
<Esther West>and also like people's experiences with police or ICE. How can we advocate for people as whole people? You know, these are not just like, these are not just checks on a list for a grant. These are people. I'm here for the people and I love them, you know, and
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:09.000
<Esther West>It's an honor to work with each other.
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:34.000
<Tara>Can you maybe tell me about a time when things didn't go the way that you'd hoped that they were going to go? And so this could be with the lender hat on or with your developer hat on and how you supported and got through that because it's clear that your passion is there and comes through for supporting. But as a developer, one of the hardest things that we can go through is
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:41.000
<Tara>a co-op winding down or them not going in the direction that we were hoping to support them through.
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:46.000
<Esther West>Something I've had to learn is how to balance empathy and that
00:23:46.000 --> 00:24:16.000
<Esther West>Personal connection. Sometimes I'm working with actual friends who I've known forever, you know, who are starting a co-op and, you know, or sometimes I'm like, oh my gosh, I just really want to join this co-op now. Like, you know, like it's just, I get excited. I mean, I, you know, I have my logical head on, but my heart, you know, I'm like, oh. So it can be hard with, it can be hard to maintain, like you have to learn how to, like for me, I've had to learn how to maintain that strength of like,
00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:38.000
<Esther West>to tap into my somewhat more logical self of how can we learn from this and make it better for next time or, you know, what happened, assess my own role versus like, what did I have control over or not? Was it that I didn't provide the right resources or they weren't the right style?
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:45.000
<Esther West>or whatever it was, or insights, or was it like people just weren't showing up to meetings?
00:24:45.000 --> 00:25:00.000
<Tara>Has there been a time where you've worked with a group and they've been unsuccessful or they'd had to wind down operations or maybe, I don't know, as a lender or as a developer, if you've been in those experiences where
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.000
<Tara>You know, things didn't go quite the way we had hoped they were going to go.
00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:30.000
<Esther West>Especially with the lender hat on, I've worked tens if not hundreds of groups, right? Like co-ops. And so, you know, that happens from time to time. And I think, yeah, just being able to grow from the experience is really important. And to problem solve, talk with other people, you know, just like be okay, like, you know, be okay with like growth and learning and being like, oh, I could have done this or,
00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:49.000
<Esther West>Oh, here's what happened. Or like, I wish they, I really wish they had done this because I invested a lot of time in it too. And I really wish they had followed through more or, you know, it's okay too, you know what I mean? But it's not my co-op at the end of the day. So that's, you know, that's okay too.
00:25:49.000 --> 00:26:11.000
<Esther West>I think like one thing is like just being aware of be like strong in who you are, you know, like all doing this together, like we're in this together, we're figuring it out together. This is not like a easy fit with our capitalistic white supremacist society. Like we got to figure it out together. And then also, I'll just say like generally maybe
00:26:11.000 --> 00:26:39.000
<Esther West>Something I think about a lot is that I think society is quick to call things that don't last forever failures. And I think that's true with co-ops or businesses or even relationships. And I think there can still be a lot of beauty that comes out of a short-term thing or a medium-term co-op.
00:26:39.000 --> 00:27:05.000
<Esther West>Dad helped start a co-op in Cincinnati through his nonprofit called, his nonprofit was Interfaith Business Builders, and then the co-op was Community Blend. And it was like, they redeveloped, they like, he didn't have much money, but he was able to get, like, recompile resources to update this building in a historically African American neighborhood.
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<Esther West>and make it into a coffee shop. And then he like passed away real sudden, right? My dad. And right when it was getting off the ground and it was like really hard and everyone was like, you know, going through it just like, it was just like really hard. So, you know, it was hard because eventually, like I tried to help it keep going before I had real co-op development training. I did what I could, but like eventually it closed.
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<Esther West>But, you know, the next, but then later a group of African American women took over that spot as a coffee shop. And it wasn't a co-op, but it wasn't there before. It wasn't a coffee shop before. It was just a vacant building. And it became, it still became a special place, you know? And to me that's a long-term win in another way.
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<Esther West>So and like the experience of creating this coffee shop brought a lot of people together that may not have otherwise met even or worked together and learned how to be cooperative together. So yeah, I like to reframe it a little.
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<Tara>Yeah, that's a really special story, Esther. Thank you so much for sharing it. So what have you personally learned from doing this work?
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<Tara>And is there something that you wish you knew when you started? I feel like you've probably been doing co-op development alongside your parents since you were walking, but let's see here.
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<Esther West>Oh wait, so like what have I learned since the early days?
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<Tara>Yeah, what have you learned from doing this work?
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<Esther West>Oh, yeah. Number one, man, okay, like again, like number one, we're just in this together, figuring it out. If I start
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<Esther West>thinking of myself as like the expert professional, I don't know. Like, I feel like it starts creating a barrier between me and my ability to really listen and be there with people. And I think just being open to growth and understanding that the world is always going to be very dynamic and
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<Esther West>How do we maintain our values and principles of cooperativism as the world constantly shifts around, you know, whatever that looks like. And yeah, I think like staying rooted in those values of solidarity and care for each other, I think that's my biggest takeaway. And just like keeping abreast of the latest things, you know?
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<Esther West>as best we can, like keeping active and learning and growing and networks. So I think those are kind of continually learning while remaining rooted in our values is my big takeaway. Yeah. Yeah. And like facilitating those connections to each, you know, to different groups and people and, and just like, you know, like I don't, I don't know what's.
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<Esther West>best for a group, like I'm not them, you know, you know, so it's like, okay, like, can we learn together?
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<Tara>Can you talk a little bit about the research and the report that you did on Latinx co-op power?
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<Esther West>Let's see here. Well, it was, well, first of all, shout out to Cooperative Development Foundation for the grant, the co-op education grant. And I did it while I was at UW
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<Esther West>Center for Cooperatives and with with Doctor and and then Doctor Jessica Gordon Nemhard. She doesn't work there, but she she was a collaborator on it with me. We did a bunch of research and outreach in around around 2019. And came up with a few different takeaways and kind of a baseline point of where
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<Esther West>Latinx co-ops were at the time. I believe they've grown substantially since, so I'd love to do another similar project just to see, compare trends and get a trend line going. But yeah, and even like doing research and data, a lot of people think of it as a very objective thing and there are good standardized practices that are important to follow.
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<Esther West>And a lot of the quality of the information and data you collect are also based on your own knowledge and relationships and insights. And so I think that's where it's really important to have diverse researchers. And something that I took away, like there are a lot of credit unions
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<Esther West>that have really nice products specifically for immigrants and also Spanish speaking Latine people. And then there are a ton of, there are a ton of like takeaways for developer that may be useful to co-op developers in the report, like facilitating those connections. Like a lot of times, like maybe might be hard to find banking resources. So go to one of these credit unions, you know, or go to Shared Capital. We don't
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<Esther West>We don't look, we don't ask or look for social security numbers or IKNs. We don't do personal credit scores, you know, that sort of thing. And we had been working on another document that never got published, unfortunately, but I have some additional information on different types of models and pluses and benefits around those for
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<Esther West>you know, based on research with Latinx communities. You know, I think I try to situate that work into the broader Latinx context whenever I can, because I think, you know, we're part of this broader community. We got to think about our needs and trends. You know, that's where some of the farm worker justice comes in, I think, or like ownership. In my mind, I'd love to do like conversions of farms to worker ownership of the farm workers with that on the head, you know,
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<Esther West>And also like climate justice issues, like, you know, a lot of folks have been, like farm workers have faced climate justice impacts. And how do we stand up as a movement for workers generally, you know? And then also home care workers, you know, there are a lot of Latine home, like the biggest worker co-op in the country has a maybe majority Latine community, I'm not sure.
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<Esther West>CHCA in the Bronx and they're a home care co-op. They do amazing work. So yeah, like, and then the Latinas specifically have a huge rate of entrepreneurialism compared to other demographics. So like, how can we tap into that? How can we say, hey, the co-op model could be a good tool for doing like backend services as, you know, a form of secondary co-op.
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<Esther West>you know, for back end services for all these smaller entrepreneurial groups, you know, something like that. Or no, and it makes sense because our wage gap is tremendous, you know, it's huge. It takes almost a year like until October for Latinas to compensate for what the average white dude makes the year prior. And that that includes educational levels and job types. So
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<Esther West>you know, it's not like because of the industry they're in.
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<Tara>Do you have any words of advice for people working with the Latine communities when it comes to co-op development?
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<Esther West>Yeah, you know, I think, I think like getting to know who you're working with, you know, they're like, I think 39 different nationalities. I think 30, 39 in the country, you know, from different countries and then
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<Esther West>You know, try to get a Spanish speaker if that's who, you know, the language people are speaking. And then I think like listening to, like asking, like saying, hey, here's some different ways we could structure our work together. Do you want, like, do folks have time to give input on the structure or, and like be really involved in it? Or does it, or would it be helpful for the co-op developer to create kind of like a,
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<Esther West>a bill a build model like a a build model that people can then just be hired into with with more democratic practices as people have stayed more and more stable jobs you know so I think working with the community that way I think like connecting to
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<Esther West>Banking resources, if that might be an issue. The current federal administration is making that harder and harder. So how can co-ops just keep supporting each other in meeting our community's needs? Yeah, and then just like connecting with folks, like helping connect with other Latinate co-ops across the country. You could look at that report or Google, you know, or look at the US Federation worker co-ops or other, you know, examples, but like to find other examples, but like I think there's
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<Esther West>Especially like if people don't come from like a predominantly Latino community, like California or Texas. Like I grew up in a very, like Cincinnati in the 80s was very low Latine percentage. So it was very isolated. I was very isolated, which was kind of sad. You know, now I'm in Milwaukee, which is awesome. It's like a fifth Latine, but
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<Esther West>You know, I think it means a lot if you're from a community of Latine folks that are somewhat isolated from others. It means a lot to connect with other people is what I've felt and seen in other people. So just like facilitating those relationships.
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<Tara>Any last pieces of advice for people looking to get into co-op development?
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<Esther West>I think like last little advice.
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<Esther West>is besides like thinking about how you want to approach this work, like for me, like the quote, you know, I like to frame it within a community organizing perspective as best I can most, you know, for the most part and solidarity perspective. I also want to just say, like, remind folks to take care of themselves and not get burnt out as best they can.
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<Esther West>I like to tell like sometimes people come to us as as a borrow as a potential borrowers at shared capital and be like, well, we don't have to get paid for the first year. And I'm like, hey, we're not in the business of self-exploitation. Like a little school equity is fine. You know, some of that's fine. But we also really don't want you to burn yourself out. And I've seen that happen sometimes and
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<Esther West>you know, just just like making sure to like, uh, enjoy, you know, take care of yourself and enjoy your life and what you're doing as best as possible. And more and more I'm trying to like figure out ways to make things enjoyable to do them. So like we do these like regional BIPOC gatherings that are specifically explicitly not meetings.
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<Esther West>But we talk about co-op stuff anyway, but it's just like whatever naturally arises. And so it's like, we have to build those relationships and trust together and just like, learn what it means to be in community and be able to call on each other if we need help as friends, you know? So, you know, it's a learning, it's a growth process of how to live in this world and community in these current circumstances, but it's,
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<Esther West>exciting and an honor to do the work.
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<Tara>Is there anything else you want to add or we're hoping that I was going to cover today?
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<Esther West>Yeah, I really appreciate CW, CooperationWorks!. I think it's an incredible network and resource. I use it all the time. Yeah, I'm like, oh man, this is so good. You know, someone will ask a question. I'm like, whoa, that's good. And yeah, I think like,
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<Esther West>just like have fun with it. Like I'm excited to whoever's out there listening, like it's exciting to get to meet you one day, I hope, and learn about your journey. So thank you.
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<Tara>Thanks so much, Hester.
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<Tara>Really appreciate your time and getting to know you a bit more in this space.
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<Tara>Esther, thank you so much for taking the time to share your story and your insights with us today.
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<Tara>This was a great conversation.
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<Tara>If you want to learn more about Esther's work, you can check out.
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:39.000
<Tara>Esther, thank you so much for taking the time to share your story and your insight with us today.
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:41.000
<Tara>This was a great conversation.
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<Tara>If you want to learn more about Esther's work, we encourage you to check out her report on Latinx cooperative research published by the University of Wisconsin.
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:52.000
<Tara>Check out the show notes for a link.
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<Tara>You can also find out more about the work Esther does with Shared Capital Cooperative and as a worker owner of the Ajani Group in the links included in the show notes.
00:41:01.000 --> 00:41:04.000
<Tara>Want to connect with more cooperative developers?
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:11.000
<Tara>Visit the CooperationWorks! member locator to explore our national network of cooperative developers and development centers.
00:41:11.000 --> 00:41:16.000
<Tara>You might even discover a member organization working right in your own community.
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:20.000
<Tara>And if you enjoyed this episode, help us strengthen the network.
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:29.000
<Tara>Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, share this episode with your colleagues in your local co-op development center, and invite others into the conversation.
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<Tara>EveryShare helps us connect developers, exchange ideas, and grow the cooperative movement together.
00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:40.000
<Tara>Thanks for listening to Cooperative Developer Stories, a podcast from CooperationWorks!.
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:45.000
<Tara>Until next time, keep learning from one another, keep sharing what and keep building the relationships that make cooperation work.
