Evolving the Craft with Vladimir Kits

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Hello, Branded Bunch, and welcome back to Brand the Interpreter.
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This is Mireia, your host, and it feels really good to be here again.
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We've had a little pause these last few months, and I just want to take a moment to thank those of you who stayed connected, continued tuning in, and kept listening to past episodes.
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You're the reason that this show still shows up in people's feeds and suggestions.
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And to everyone who has shared this podcast with colleagues or friends, thank you.
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Your support truly helps this community grow.
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And to anyone that is joining us for the first time or returning after a while, I am grateful you are here.
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I hope you know that.
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You know, as we approach the end of the year, I've been reflecting on how much is shifting in our profession.
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New tools, new expectations, new executive orders, policy changes, the rise of AI, and the ways that institutions are rethinking language access.
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Part of what brings me back to the mic is the desire to be here with you through all of that.
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To be able to keep sharing the stories of language professionals, our challenges, our breakthroughs, our experiments, our growth.
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And to be able to contribute something meaningful to the ongoing shaping of this work that we share.
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And as all these changes take place, it strikes me that we often think the big shifts in our profession happened way before our time or will happen someday in the far future.
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But whether we like it or not, we are experiencing those shifts right now in real time.
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Which brings me to today's episode.
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While preparing for this conversation, our guest, Vladimir Kitz, shared a childhood memory about learning English through story-heavy video games.
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You'll hear him call them RPGs in the episode.
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The kind that asks you to understand how a character thinks from the inside.
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And it made me pause because, in its own way, that mirrors something that interpreters do every day.
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We step inside someone else's perspective long enough to carry their meaning forward with clarity and intention.
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And that connection, seeing how his childhood experiences unexpectedly echo the work that we do as interpreters, is what initially pulled me into this conversation.
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But beyond that moment, I think many of you will recognize yourselves in parts of Vladimir's journey.
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His story includes challenges, pivots, doubts, and the kind of discipline that you only develop by moving through real obstacles.
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In that sense, his path mirrors so many of ours, even if the details look different.
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Our conversation isn't linear.
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I mean, when is it ever on this podcast, right?
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It is wide though, it's reflective and it's honest.
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We do talk about preparation as a strategy and a technique, reducing uncertainty, designing practice that actually changes you, and learning to take feedback that matters.
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We also explore AI realistically and what its current limitations mean for us as interpreters today.
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And throughout the conversation, there is a theme that you'll hear from beginning to end.
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This idea that evolution doesn't only happen at the level of the profession, it also happens within each of us.
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It's the slow refining of perspective, the discipline of showing up, and the willingness to return to the craft again and again, even when no one is watching.
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Which, in a way, is exactly what I'm doing today by returning to the mic.
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So, join me in entering the world of language professional Vladimir Kitts and the resilience, curiosity, and thoughtful craftsmanship behind his journey.
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Shall we?
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Vladimir, I'm so happy that you're joining us here today.
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I'm brand the interpreter.
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Welcome.
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Thank you for the invitation, Mira.
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Yes, I'm always happy to have a language professional join from around the world.
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So if you wouldn't mind sharing with this audience where you're joining us from today.
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Yes, um, currently I'm based in Novi Sad in Serbia, and this is the place where I moved to a few years ago because of the current situation.
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And it's it's a very good place.
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Um, we had an option to stay in the capital city of Belgrade, and we we chose to stay here in Novi Sad.
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It's a very young city, so to say.
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The population is generally pretty young, and it's it's a beautiful city.
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It's a smaller one, but I think it's a very nice one.
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So this was a recent move, yes.
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Yes.
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And where did you grow up?
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I actually grew up uh in the north of Russia, it's a small town, and we have snow for up to six months a year.
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So this kind of place, yeah.
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It can be both bad and good because uh we I personally am so used to snow.
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Now I cannot imagine winters without snow, and this is what I have here.
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So this winter we had snow for like two weeks, maybe maybe even less.
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Oh my god.
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Back at home, we have uh snow for half a year.
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Six months.
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Like I'm I'm dying.
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I I my audience um knows that I I went from Southern California, so west coast out here, to East Coast now.
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I'm I'm in northern Virginia, and I am dying with their cold, you know, out here.
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So six months, I just there'd be no way.
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I think within the first within the first month I'd be back home.
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I can't imagine six months of snow.
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Yeah, it's definitely an interesting experience.
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But when you grow up in this kind of environment, you get used to this.
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So for example, I cannot really tolerate heat, but I can tolerate uh frost.
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So it it's very interesting how how it develops just because of the place where he grew up.
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Yeah, like it's like our bodies will generate whatever whatever they need to generate in order to adapt to the weather and the environment.
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That's so true, actually.
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Now you think about it.
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And I I think people are also different, not very much, but uh you can see some differences just because of uh where they grew up, if it's cold, if it's hot.
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That's true.
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So share with us a fond childhood memory of yours, uh, where you grew up, actually.
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What's something that that you still recall every so often about your childhood?
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It's it's actually connected to with the place where I grew up and the this dichotomy of uh cold and hot.
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And this is the story where I learned how to read when I was two years old.
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And this is not usually what happens, and funnily enough, I don't remember the story, but so this is how the story goes.
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Uh, one time we went on a vacation from our city in the north, it's actually close to the White Sea, and we took a vacation south to one of the resort cities, and usually takes two, maybe three days to go there by train, so it's a very long distance.
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And when you buy a train ticket in Russia, you end up in a compartment with other people you don't know.
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And we ended up in a compartment with an elderly lady, and she sat opposite us.
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And at the time I took out the book, it was a very big book with big, beautiful pictures, and I started reading.
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I started reading out aloud, and for a for a few minutes, the lady just looked at us, and then she wondered and said, Well, I can't believe that toddlers can now read.
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But what actually happened is that my mother used to tell me this story all the time, so that I remembered the whole story, and then I remembered when to turn the pages.
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So for the person who doesn't really know this, it looked like I was turning the pages and reading the book, where in fact I was just remembering the story and knowing when to turn the page.
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And you're reciting by memory.
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Yeah, I was just reciting by memory and in looking back, and maybe maybe there is some connection between this uh story and what I currently do because you have to remember a lot of things and pretend like you know what's doing.
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I was gonna say, yeah, for sure.
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I mean, how about that uh skill set uh as an interpreter?
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That would be amazing.
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Um poor lady, she's in there thinking this is this is a genius at work here.
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What I'm what I'm seeing.
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So oh, that's so funny.
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That's a great story.
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Yeah, and normally obviously I later learned how to read when I was about six, maybe seven, just before I went to school.
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And this is what normally happens.
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There are some genius kids who learn to read at five, maybe four, but you you don't really read when you're two.
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But uh this is kind of fond memory of that time, which as I said, ironically, I do not remember.
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So that is hilarious.
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I love memory, yeah.
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Where did you learn to speak English?
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It did you grow up in a bilingual household, or uh, how did other languages uh come to be?
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First of all, what is your um mother tongue?
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And then how did other languages uh come into play for you?
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Yes, uh I was born and raised in Russia, so my mother tongue is Russian, and we have practically zero bilingual or any external language environment.
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So it's a very small city, it's oriented around it basically, it's uh around the single factory.
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It's a very good factory, it's a it's a plant, manufacturing plant to produce submarines and a shipbuilding plant.
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And if you do not work there, there is basically nothing to do in the city.
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So this kind of environment.
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So I did not have an opportunity to study abroad.
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We did not have any foreigners in our in our town because it's quite a long way from other countries, it's a little bit deep inside the territory.
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And well, I basically learned English and I learned a little bit of picked up a little bit of Japanese while learning and reading and listening to different stories in the form of songs, um books, and movies.
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And in my case, I'm particularly fond of video games because I treat them a little bit different, maybe compared to most people.
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For me, it's um it's an interactive story, and it's a visually sometimes very stunning story, but I mostly care about the narrative.
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So, and for that reason, I played a lot of strategy games and a lot of RPG games, and one of the best RPGs comes from Japan, so that's why I also learned a little bit of Japanese just to play the games and understand the story and the relation between characters.
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So, yeah, this is where I started.
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I just played different games, learned a lot of I didn't even learn, I maybe acquired some language because there was no translation.
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I was just looking at the picture and I was looking at the actions, and I made a direct connection between the words on the screen and the actions on the screen by passing Russian altogether.
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So I I think in this way it helped me a little bit.
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And then I went to school, I studied some English there, but it was okay at best, and then I went to the university where I got a pretty good foundation, especially compared to what I could have had.
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And yeah, so mostly I learned English by myself, but definitely um my teachers, especially from the university years, play a significant part in this in this journey.
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To formalize it, you know, afterward, yeah, right.
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So I it's interesting because I've had uh through the years several guests share their uh acquisition of the link English language through video games or through television shows.
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So it you know, there's something to be said there, right?
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About about what we watch or what we interact with in in different languages.
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And I'm hopeful because actually my son watches a lot of um Japanese.
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So perhaps he'll he'll be picking up Japanese and he doesn't even know it.
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So he watches Japanese shows and uh and he plays video games that have a lot of Japanese cartoon, I mean, like um elements to it.
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So perhaps I'm not gonna be so worried about how much time he's spending in these video games after all.
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I I think I truly believe that it does not really matter what exactly you do.
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What matters is what you take from it, because you can go to the best university and you can get practically zero of it, or you can play a single video game, you can read a single book and you can take basically everything this book or this video game has to offer, and you can make all sorts of connections which are not even there, but it can help you.
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So, in this sense, I think it really depends on you on how you interact with other people and other people's work, instead of like saying just books are good or just video games are bad, instead of that, okay.
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Here is a really good book, but if you just read the book, it may not provide enough value.
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So you have to think when you read the book, maybe you have to take some notes, maybe you have to ask the question to the author and have some kind of imaginary conversation in your head so that you can remember it better.
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That's so true.
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I like that so much.
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Yeah, it's true because with video games, especially live ones, yeah.
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So he does a lot of the online ones where he's interacting with other individuals at the same time, like other other players.
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And so there is this back and forth sort of conversation with regards to what they're doing.
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Never thought of it that way.
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Yeah, I I also think there is some difference between the modern games and the games we had when we were growing up, because previously the game developers and designers could not rely on good graphics, and they have to capture your attention by gameplay, by narrative, by interaction between characters, and now it's much easier to have stunning graphics, so that maybe, maybe just my personal opinion, games have become a little bit more shallow, but you can still find the gem even now, as opposed to to the rest of the competition, so to say.
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But I I think the best example of it is uh DD, it's a Dungeons and Dragons, it's a game entirely based on imagination, and you can have the same campaign played by different people, and you have completely different experience.
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So interesting.
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Now, for us that are video game challenged, you mentioned RPG.
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What is that?
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What is RPG?
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R RPG stands for role-playing game, where you kind of assume a role of a protagonist.
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In most cases, you assume the role of the protagonist and you play this game from the perspective of this character, but you also can have a perspective of other characters.
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So maybe well, there are some games that limit your perspective and you see only this uh protagonist's perspective, but in most cases it's just normal storytelling, like happens in movies.
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So when you see one character and what happens in this place, then you see another character, what happens in that place, then you see some kind of evil doer, and what happens in them and what they want to do.
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So this kind of stuff.
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Yeah, but basically, uh RPGs are more about narrative and more about developing yourself as a character.
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So you usually have some kind of uh uh statistics, you can increase your maybe intelligence, maybe strength, maybe dexterity, and based on your decisions, you have more or less opportunities, maybe different opportunities on how to tackle different content.
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So it it gives you a little bit of flexibility on how you want to complete the game.
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So interesting.
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Never did I think that I'd be intrigued by concepts of video games.
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And and look at me, you just taught me a few things here and there.
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Vladimir, as you're going through your educational journey, um, you mentioned that then later on you you took English in in university.
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Were you thinking anything specific with picking up a second language, or was it just the fact that you know you you wanted to expand and formalize what you had already learned?
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Or what were you thinking at that at that time, if anything, with regards to picking up a second language?
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That's interesting because at that time I was not I was a little bit uh confused on where to go and what to do.
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Um internet was young at the time, it was maybe early 2000s, and we had some internet, but it was very expensive and it was very slow.
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And I didn't really know how to use it to find relevant information.
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So I could find maybe some music, maybe some movies, but I could not find some maybe opportunities where to go.
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And at least for me as a teenager, that was not the focus of what was important at the time.
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So and because of that, I was a little bit lost at the time, and I already got my first education, it was a vacational school.
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I attended I got a degree in electrical engineering, and I tried it, and I really didn't like the job.
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So I was like, what can I do?
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What else can I do?
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And I thought that well, my English is okay.
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It's not great, but it's okay, and that's why I decided to improve it.
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I decided to enter the university, and we had English and German as the second language there.
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And there I studied for five years, and I never really used German besides for exams, so it's kind of in my luggage somewhere on the top shelf.
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But I actually use English every day ever since, and sometimes I just read, sometimes I just listen, sometimes I talk, sometimes I even work, it also happens.
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And yeah, but uh I I've been I've been using English for the last I don't know 20 20 25 years mostly every day.
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You went from dreaming about being a cosmonaut, so is that is that like uh an astronaut for us and then a footballer to being a research associate.
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Talk to us about that.
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Yeah, so once again, a lot of different in-roads and different directions.
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So being a cosmonaut in Russia at the time was a very big deal.
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Like most boys wanted to go to space and become space heroes, and all that because of Yuri Gagarin, the first man in space.
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And we just recently had the 12th of April, which is the day when he went to space in 1961.
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Yeah, so this is a very big deal in Russia.
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It was a very big deal in during the Soviet time, but it's still a big deal in Russia, and many boys wanted to become either firefighters or cosmonauts during their school years.
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So this is what this was pretty typical, I would say.
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And I also wanted to be a footballer because I spent most of my days outside playing football with other kids, and I'm I'm really in love with the game.
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And at the time I was obviously watching a lot of football on TV and cheering for different teams, but over the years my passion a little bit transformed, so I do not really cheer for a particular team.
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I really enjoy a good game.
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So when I see a beautiful play, when I see a great goal, when I see a great save, this is what I enjoy.
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And this is how my passion for football developed, so to say.
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And being a researcher, I actually never imagined I would end up in a research institute.
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So this is what happened.
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I when I graduated from the university, I tried to find a job at my local town, and there were only a few opportunities.
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As I said, you can work at the plant, but if you do not work there, everything else is very, very bad.
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And I could not get to the plant, so I moved to St.
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Petersburg.
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And in St.
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Petersburg, I was able to find a job as a research associate, and basically for a few years, what I did was looking for different information on different topics over the course of one, maybe two weeks, and then compiling a report, and then giving this report and all sorts of topics on science, on chemistry, and biology, on communications.
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And I think obviously at the time I didn't know this, but now looking back, every single one of these little in-roads, little uh let's say off-roads of the of the main roads, they contribute somehow to the person I am now and to the work I do right now.
00:24:23.819 --> 00:24:42.299
Because to be a good interpreter, I need to do research, I need to prepare a lot, especially in my case, because this is I just know how strong the competition is, and the people who work in my language combinations are really, really good.
00:24:42.299 --> 00:24:51.099
And because of that, I have to do extra work and I have to prepare, I have to minimize potential pitfalls I could fall into.
00:24:51.099 --> 00:25:00.539
And this is where my skills from research years come in handy, but I also use skills from when I was a footballer.
00:25:00.539 --> 00:25:25.179
I'm I'm a little bit an athlete, I'm not really an athlete, but a little bit an athlete, and I'm also using some skills I got from playing video games because there are some things I took from this, and I also applied it here, and it seems like I took a little bit here, a little bit there, and I tried to piece together the current version of myself.
00:25:25.179 --> 00:25:27.500
Oh my gosh, I really like that.
00:25:27.500 --> 00:25:39.099
I know that we've talked about that in this in this uh show, about just the the crossover of our past experiences being able to support us in our current role.
00:25:39.099 --> 00:25:50.139
And if you really make the connections, it sort of allows you to just grow professionally in a way in which you may not have even planned or thought of.
00:25:50.139 --> 00:25:52.219
So I like that you mentioned that.
00:25:52.219 --> 00:25:56.219
And we're gonna talk a little bit uh in just a little bit more about that.
00:25:56.219 --> 00:26:07.819
But um I want to go back to sort of the timeline of when you're making this transition and seeing the different professions of the potential things you might be interested in.
00:26:07.819 --> 00:26:19.019
At this time, going back to your story of being a researcher and really diving into these just interesting and pretty, pretty in-depth topics, right?
00:26:19.019 --> 00:26:23.899
I mean, you're talking about biology, you're talking about things that are very scientific.
00:26:23.899 --> 00:26:29.739
At this point in your life, did you know that interpreting was a profession yet?
00:26:29.739 --> 00:26:37.259
That's very interesting because I I knew about translation as a profession, as an activity.
00:26:37.259 --> 00:26:42.059
So you have a text, you translate it from one language to another, and that's all.
00:26:42.059 --> 00:26:49.019
And obviously, I knew about spoken translation where somebody speaks and you translate their words.
00:26:49.019 --> 00:26:55.019
I had no idea conference interpreting existed as an option.
00:26:55.019 --> 00:27:06.539
So the first time I even learned about something that you can do simultaneous interpreting as a profession, as an activity, was exactly when I was doing my research.
00:27:06.539 --> 00:27:12.859
So I had time to do the real research, and I had time to do my own research.
00:27:12.859 --> 00:27:19.579
And during one of these um research activities, I found out about simultaneous interpreting.
00:27:19.579 --> 00:27:31.099
And for me, it was like the combination of what I was doing before, and all those roads kind of got interconnected at this point.
00:27:31.099 --> 00:27:37.979
So I had my reaction time because I think reaction time is very important in simultaneous interpreting.
00:27:37.979 --> 00:27:41.899
I got it from my so to say sports site.
00:27:41.899 --> 00:27:57.659
I got my curiosity and different topics, knowledge, knowledge of different topics from my research years and from an intellectual game which is called What, Where, When.
00:27:57.659 --> 00:28:00.699
It's uh it's a very interesting show.
00:28:00.699 --> 00:28:02.139
So it's like Jeopardy.
00:28:02.139 --> 00:28:09.179
Uh, in in the US, you have Jeopardy, which was uh hosted by now late Alec Trebek.
00:28:09.179 --> 00:28:12.059
And this is a quiz show.
00:28:12.059 --> 00:28:14.779
You have an answer and you give the question.
00:28:14.779 --> 00:28:23.500
Normally you you get a question and then you give an answer, but in Jeopardy, there is a twist, you have to kind of ask the question.
00:28:23.500 --> 00:28:26.459
But but it's still it's still a trivia show.
00:28:26.459 --> 00:28:31.099
So you have a question and you give an answer, and there is a like direct connection.
00:28:31.099 --> 00:28:35.259
You basically remember, it's all about remembering stuff.
00:28:35.259 --> 00:28:42.539
But uh the game we have in Russia, and it was created during the Soviet time, is called What, Where, When.
00:28:42.539 --> 00:28:55.099
And it's basically you have a team of six people, of up to six people, and you brainstorm for exactly one minute trying to solve some kind of puzzle.
00:28:55.099 --> 00:29:07.899
And you go there and you solve 10 puzzles, 20 puzzles, 30 puzzles on different topics in in the span of 90 minutes, maybe two hours, and they range from all the topics of all the world.
00:29:07.899 --> 00:29:14.859
So they can be about history, about religion, about politics, about linguistics, about different books, about different personalities.
00:29:14.859 --> 00:29:19.500
And ironically enough, this is where I got most of my education.
00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:41.099
So it was not from the university, it was from this game, because when you play this interesting game, you come across different facts you never knew before, and then go back home and you read, then you go and play again, then go back home and you read again, because you learn something new, some new fact today, and you had no idea about this.
00:29:41.099 --> 00:29:47.659
But everybody on the team knew, so it was some kind of you you were the only one, the person missing this.
00:29:47.659 --> 00:29:53.099
So, and yeah, and going back to the to the original line.
00:29:53.099 --> 00:30:11.739
I had this reaction time, I had this uh natural curiosity, I had all this so to say useless knowledge, and all of them, and obviously knowledge of uh foreign languages, and all of them got interconnected in simultaneous interpreting because for me personally, this is my preferred activity.
00:30:11.739 --> 00:30:14.779
So you have your aha moment, right?
00:30:14.779 --> 00:30:23.979
Like this is this, it it in it sort of interests you, it sparks this interest in you, uh, you're wanting to do more, find out more about it.
00:30:23.979 --> 00:30:30.539
What is the first action that you take to begin your path towards conference interpreting?
00:30:30.539 --> 00:30:31.339
Do you recall?
00:30:31.339 --> 00:30:35.099
What was that first thing you did that you said this is the path I want to start?
00:30:35.099 --> 00:30:36.859
What did you do next?
00:30:36.859 --> 00:30:42.459
The first thing I did is I went home and I tried to do it myself.
00:30:42.459 --> 00:30:55.899
So I went on, I went online and I looked up uh UN speeches just to see how people who are experts who have 10, 20, maybe 30 years of experience, how they do it.
00:30:55.899 --> 00:31:01.979
I listened to the original one, I listened to their interpretation, and I tried it to do it myself.
00:31:01.979 --> 00:31:04.619
And it was not that good.
00:31:04.619 --> 00:31:12.219
I I would say it was probably pretty bad, but it it was in the realm, well, uh I can improve.
00:31:12.219 --> 00:31:16.219
Because sometimes you try something and see, well, it's not even close.
00:31:16.219 --> 00:31:19.739
Even if I try for 10 years, I will not I will never be enough.
00:31:19.739 --> 00:31:23.979
And in this case, I tried and was like, it's okay, it's okay.
00:31:23.979 --> 00:31:26.539
I I can work, I can improve.
00:31:26.539 --> 00:31:27.899
So this was the first step.
00:31:27.899 --> 00:31:38.539
And the second step, I quit my job and I moved to Moscow, where I moved without any connection, without any experience, without any job, practically no money.
00:31:38.539 --> 00:31:47.659
And I was able to find work as a simultaneous job because I was practicing at home almost the entire day.
00:31:47.659 --> 00:31:50.779
I was trying to catch up really, really fast.
00:31:50.779 --> 00:31:57.019
And I was looking for potential opportunities on where and how to work as an interpreter.
00:31:57.019 --> 00:32:20.059
Now I know that you know, with your background as a research associate, you I'm sure there was tons of it that you did, but how does somebody that doesn't have any background in interpreting, that hasn't done any formal training on the interpreting skill sets that are needed, those very specific techniques that are needed, particularly with simultaneous interpreting?
00:32:20.059 --> 00:32:25.979
How does someone know what to focus on in order to do it correctly, if you will, right?
00:32:25.979 --> 00:32:27.419
What were you looking for?
00:32:27.419 --> 00:32:32.619
What did you find that you said, oh, that's the technique that I need to improve on?
00:32:32.619 --> 00:32:45.019
Yes, you are absolutely correct, because if I just try and do some things, it will be mostly random things, and they will probably be quite useless.
00:32:45.019 --> 00:33:17.979
So in in my case, I came across a book by Andrei Falaleev, and it's uh he's one of the best interpreters who works in English to Russian combination, and he provides some specific exercises on what to do when you interpret, especially simultaneously, from English to Russian and from Russian to English, and he basically provides these techniques you're talking about on what to do and what not to do, typical mistakes everyone falls into.
00:33:17.979 --> 00:33:31.259
And yes, so I was using his books as my first steps as a guidance, but then I realized that even if I research a lot, I still need some additional experience.
00:33:31.259 --> 00:33:50.779
So I completed a few online courses and they helped, but I think it mostly depends on how well you train yourself because you you can have all the books, you can have all the knowledge, but if you don't do the actual work, it doesn't really help.
00:33:50.779 --> 00:33:55.739
Yeah, it's what we call here um that deliberate practice, right?
00:33:55.739 --> 00:34:08.860
So we have to be very deliberate as to making sure that we are practicing what we're learning rather than just taking it all in and then going out in the field and applying them, right?
00:34:08.860 --> 00:34:12.539
But but if we do some deliberate practice with that, we can definitely improve.
00:34:12.539 --> 00:34:17.579
It's a technique, so you you have to practice it if you want to improve it.
00:34:17.579 --> 00:34:21.900
You did something that sort of you know challenged you at some point.
00:34:21.900 --> 00:34:27.820
So you're going through all of this, you're learning about it, you're doing research, you're doing your deliberate practices.
00:34:27.820 --> 00:34:37.820
Um, you are convinced that this is what you want to do, so much to the point that you actually took part in a contest.
00:34:37.820 --> 00:34:38.699
Yes.
00:34:38.699 --> 00:34:40.539
Talk to us about that.
00:34:40.539 --> 00:34:42.219
Yes, that is true.
00:34:42.219 --> 00:34:56.139
That's actually, I think, one of my I I would call it second, maybe third step, depending on how we look at it, in in my career, because it took me four years to achieve something decent.
00:34:56.139 --> 00:35:01.019
And I I knew about this contest, it's called Cosine Spy.
00:35:01.019 --> 00:35:08.779
It's a contest of interpreters, and I I think it's yeah, they they do only contest for interpreters, there is no translation there.
00:35:08.779 --> 00:35:12.460
So it's a contest for consecutive and simultaneous interpreters.
00:35:12.460 --> 00:35:32.619
And previously they had maybe only English to Russian, now they have French and German, Italian, Chinese, different languages, but they also have been inactive during the last few years, so I'm not sure if they ever come back or not, but I think it was a very interesting experience.
00:35:32.619 --> 00:35:35.980
And at that time, it it was a challenge for me.
00:35:35.980 --> 00:35:41.420
And because it was a challenge, it was kind of a goal, and you can see it.
00:35:41.420 --> 00:35:58.139
And even if it's a little bit subjective, maybe it's a lot subjective, you you can still go there and you can try and get through the qualification, you can try and get to the final, and you can try and see if you can do this.
00:35:58.139 --> 00:36:20.779
Because I I think when you take part in any contest, it provides you additional motivation to do better, to train, and it's also very I would say it's just scary because there are so many professionals who do not want others to listen to them for different reasons.
00:36:20.779 --> 00:36:32.539
Maybe they are a little bit subconscious, maybe they are not a little maybe not sure about their quality of work, maybe they just do not want to be compared to others.
00:36:32.539 --> 00:36:38.139
So there are many reasons why many professionals did not take part in this.
00:36:38.139 --> 00:36:47.819
And yeah, I at the time I had nothing to lose and everything to gain, so I thought, why not?
00:36:47.819 --> 00:36:49.900
So you you went that first time.
00:36:49.900 --> 00:36:51.259
What was the first result?
00:36:51.259 --> 00:36:55.179
The first three years I did not qualify.
00:36:55.179 --> 00:36:59.659
I think the English to Russian combination is the most competitive.
00:36:59.659 --> 00:37:04.859
There are at least a few dozens, maybe a few hundred people who took part in it.
00:37:04.859 --> 00:37:10.380
And there are two categories: one is for professionals and one is for people who show potential.
00:37:10.380 --> 00:37:17.659
And I tried in in both, and for three years I did not qualify in in either of them.
00:37:17.659 --> 00:37:23.420
And sometimes you receive some feedback, sometimes the feedback was useful.
00:37:23.420 --> 00:37:27.179
Most of the times, feedback was unfortunately not very useful.
00:37:27.179 --> 00:37:32.139
You receive some feedback and it says it was bad, and and that's all.
00:37:32.139 --> 00:37:36.219
Like you get three words and you have no idea what to take from it.
00:37:36.219 --> 00:37:45.500
But for the fourth time, I actually went to the finals and I got uh second place from five people.
00:37:45.500 --> 00:37:52.699
So we had the finals, we had five people in the finals, and I was just a little bit shy of the first place.
00:37:52.699 --> 00:37:59.099
But I ranked second, and I think it it was pretty good, especially compared to the competition.
00:37:59.099 --> 00:38:05.900
As I said, the people who have English and Russians, their combination are very, very strong.
00:38:05.900 --> 00:38:13.980
And when I say strong, I mean slightly different things because sometimes people have very good linguistic skills.
00:38:13.980 --> 00:38:23.259
Maybe they were able to study abroad, maybe they have interpreters, parent parents as their interpreters, maybe they come from a family of a diplomat.
00:38:23.259 --> 00:38:34.699
Sometimes people study in um really good interpreting schools, and other people are just really good at marketing and really good at positioning themselves.
00:38:34.699 --> 00:38:43.819
So in this sense, it's um very, very strong competition, and that's why I wanted to try my try my best in this environment.
00:38:43.819 --> 00:38:55.099
First of all, I want to commend you for not getting discouraged after being told something as as harsh as just wasn't good, or you're not good enough.
00:38:55.099 --> 00:39:08.859
That can discourage, I think, any individual from continuing on, potentially even from continuing in a path that they thought they wanted to go into based on somebody else's feedback that can be so empty at times like that.
00:39:08.859 --> 00:39:18.059
But but for the individuals that say, no, this is what I want to do, which sounds like it's something that you were just definite on.
00:39:18.059 --> 00:39:20.859
What did you focus on to improve then?
00:39:20.859 --> 00:39:21.980
What were you what were you doing?
00:39:21.980 --> 00:39:30.380
Were you researching other people, listening to other interpretations from uh you know fellow interpreters that were there trying to do the same thing?
00:39:30.380 --> 00:39:35.099
Or what did you decide to focus on to continue improving?
00:39:35.099 --> 00:40:02.779
Yeah, I think this is one of my features is me as a person, I try to analyze, maybe sometimes overanalyze and try to understand, try try to dig a little bit deeper and try to get to the core of why this person is successful in what they do, because we have so many exceptional individuals around us, but you have no idea why they are exceptional, and I try to understand why, and it helps me a little bit.
00:40:02.779 --> 00:40:16.139
So, in my case, yes, I was listening to other contestants, I was listening to what they do, how they do it, I was looking at them, how they look at the camera, maybe if they are nervous, if they're not nervous.
00:40:16.139 --> 00:40:21.659
At the time, we also had a practice group, which definitely helped a lot.
00:40:21.659 --> 00:40:33.659
And it it was a group where you obviously you train every week because you have to record your interpretation and then send it over to your colleague.
00:40:33.659 --> 00:40:38.940
But what's more important is that you have to give feedback to another person.
00:40:38.940 --> 00:40:45.099
So, in in the time, I learned how to give feedback and I learned how to receive feedback.
00:40:45.099 --> 00:40:53.259
And I also learned that not all feedback is the same because there are basically two types of feedback good feedback and useless feedback.
00:40:53.259 --> 00:41:02.699
And the useless feedback is funnel enough, when somebody says everything is great, this is useless, and when somebody says everything is bad, this is also useless.
00:41:02.699 --> 00:41:07.500
So everything is great, obviously, better than everything is bad, but it's great.
00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:18.380
If you get it from a client, if you get everything that is great from a peer, that's not a good feedback because there is always something you can improve.
00:41:18.380 --> 00:41:28.139
There is at least some ideas you can listen to your peers, and they can give you maybe some direction where to go and what to do next.
00:41:28.139 --> 00:41:33.099
So research, training group, and practice.
00:41:33.099 --> 00:41:33.659
Yes.
00:41:33.659 --> 00:41:35.339
I practiced a lot.
00:41:35.339 --> 00:41:55.739
You've obviously from your angle as your past self, uh, not so much maybe past, but just a different self with uh your scientific background, your research on um very scientific topics, and then being able to sort of look at it from a different angle now.
00:41:55.739 --> 00:42:02.619
Through the years, what do you feel are those things that have helped you grow in this field?
00:42:02.619 --> 00:42:10.460
What are some of those takeaways that you think might have been something that make you a better interpreter from where you started?
00:42:10.460 --> 00:42:17.179
I have on here in my notes that you compare simultaneous interpreting to martial arts.
00:42:17.179 --> 00:42:25.420
So talk to us a little bit about what you've identified throughout the years in your experience with conference interpreting.
00:42:25.420 --> 00:42:29.579
Yes, um, and I'm gonna say that uh this is not my comparison.
00:42:29.579 --> 00:42:54.779
That's uh exactly what Andrei Falaleev does in his books, and all his philosophy is based on an interpreter being a martial artist, and you have to be able to defend against different attacks, and the more techniques you know, the better it is, um, the more flexible you are in your movements, and I I think this is a great analogy, and that's why I used it.
00:42:54.779 --> 00:43:20.460
But in my experience, um just a little bit over the years, I think I I agree still that this is a good this is a good metaphor, but I also think a good interpreter is a person who is always curious because one of the things which helps me a lot is that I try to decrease the level of uncertainty uh every time.
00:43:20.460 --> 00:43:31.099
So whenever you come to a different event, there are so many things you have no idea what would happen, different topics, different accents, different presentations.
00:43:31.099 --> 00:43:48.219
And what I do is I try to guess what happens, and I give, and the more try, the better my guesses are, and if I can guess correctly what would happen, how would this person start a speech?
00:43:48.219 --> 00:43:53.579
Maybe they always start with the joke, so and this time they will also start with a joke.
00:43:53.579 --> 00:44:15.420
So now I'm ready for this kind of start, just because in the past this is what they always did, or maybe there will be some reference to football because this person really loves football, and even though the topic at hand has nothing to do with football, I'm ready in case he decides to make a reference.
00:44:15.420 --> 00:44:26.299
And I try to, as I said, minimize potential problems before I even step into the booth.
00:44:26.299 --> 00:44:33.019
So, in my sense, there's in my opinion, this natural curiosity is very important.
00:44:33.019 --> 00:44:37.099
Very scientific of you, as the way in which you approach.
00:44:37.099 --> 00:44:50.380
I'm wondering, do you have like an actual formula that maybe you don't think about it as a formula, but when you're researching, is there an actual formula like I want to know this, this, this about this individual, about this topic that you follow?
00:44:50.380 --> 00:44:53.579
I do not unfortunately have a formula.
00:44:53.579 --> 00:44:57.579
Maybe if if I have the formula, I will definitely share it.
00:44:57.579 --> 00:45:04.139
And what what I usually do is that you can approach any event from two sides.
00:45:04.139 --> 00:45:06.940
You can be tactical and you can be strategical.
00:45:06.940 --> 00:45:16.940
When we're talking about tactics, it's mostly glossary, it's mostly words, terminology, and getting the presentation and and so on.
00:45:16.940 --> 00:45:36.779
But if we are talking about strategy, it's like where this company or this person in the world, what's their relation to other companies, to other people, what's their previous experience, what do what they want to do, where they where do they want to go?
00:45:36.779 --> 00:45:44.299
So basically, you have to ask yourself what's their relation.
00:45:44.299 --> 00:45:49.019
Are they for maybe they're against some point?
00:45:49.019 --> 00:45:58.219
And if you can answer these questions before you start working, then you will not make any significant mistakes.
00:45:58.219 --> 00:46:13.579
You might make some minor mistakes in terminology, but it will not be like any drastic mistakes, because you will never make a mistake that would make the whole audience turn, turn around and look at the booth.
00:46:13.579 --> 00:46:19.579
Because this would happen only if you say something which is strategically wrong.
00:46:19.579 --> 00:46:25.739
But if you say something which is tactically wrong, most people can let it slip.
00:46:25.739 --> 00:46:27.659
Oh, I like that.
00:46:27.659 --> 00:46:28.940
I like that very much.
00:46:28.940 --> 00:46:39.019
I mean, your approach is perhaps some might think is a little over the top, and I think it just depends on you know the conference interpreter and their approach.
00:46:39.019 --> 00:46:46.460
But you did one time, I have on here that practice with a TED talk over 100 times to learn about that.
00:46:46.460 --> 00:46:53.980
Talk to us a little bit about that elite level of practice routines that you sometimes do, or maybe that you did at that time.
00:46:53.980 --> 00:46:59.819
Yeah, and I must say it was incredibly, incredibly boring.
00:46:59.819 --> 00:47:04.299
Because there is actually no reason to do this uh 100 times.
00:47:04.299 --> 00:47:08.299
You can do this maybe five times, maybe ten times.
00:47:08.299 --> 00:47:17.099
I I would say that by the time you reach 10, maybe 20, you are as perfect as the speaker.
00:47:17.099 --> 00:47:24.059
But but the whole idea was well, first of all, 100 sounds unreasonable, and that's why I did it.
00:47:24.059 --> 00:47:27.099
Uh, it was a TED talk about procrastination.
00:47:27.099 --> 00:47:29.179
I think it's a little bit symbolic here.
00:47:29.179 --> 00:47:46.059
The famous talk about the procrastination, where the team urban speaks about the monkey brain and panic monster, and where he had to manage how he wanted to pass his PhD and then prepare the TED talk.
00:47:46.059 --> 00:47:59.819
So it's a very good talk, but still the main point of that post was by the time you complete five, maybe ten times, you start to experiment, and then you start to experiment with language.
00:47:59.819 --> 00:48:06.619
And maybe what was what seemed and sounded good before, now you can test and twist it a little bit.
00:48:06.619 --> 00:48:22.299
Now you can compress a little bit more, now we can skip some words, now you can maybe sometimes just skip complete sentences and think, well, it doesn't really make sense if I say it or not, maybe I can skip this, maybe I can summarize this.
00:48:22.299 --> 00:48:24.699
Can I summarize it better?
00:48:24.699 --> 00:48:42.619
And the whole point of doing the same speech over and over again is that if you produce different output and different output, meaning you train synonyms, you train your ability to condense information and present it in a more eloquent way.
00:48:42.619 --> 00:48:48.539
So if we have 100% here, maybe you can shorten to 70%, maybe to 50%.
00:48:48.539 --> 00:48:54.940
Sometimes you can increase the speed and it will be faster and it will be a little bit more challenging.
00:48:54.940 --> 00:48:59.099
Maybe you have some background noise, and it will also be a little bit challenging.
00:48:59.099 --> 00:49:12.539
So yeah, the whole point of doing the same speech is just you get comfortable with it, and then you can play with your language you're interpreting into, so that you can have different options.
00:49:12.539 --> 00:49:23.980
Yeah, I mean I can imagine, but I at least the topic was good because you've had some interesting topics throughout the years that you've interpreted for, yes, like horse diseases, is that correct?
00:49:23.980 --> 00:49:27.259
Horse diseases, yes, was uh one of the topics.
00:49:27.259 --> 00:49:37.259
And it's interesting because this one I think I didn't share this on LinkedIn, but it was for the organization where I failed an interview.
00:49:37.259 --> 00:49:44.779
It so I wanted to work as an interpreter in a local organization which dealt with this.
00:49:44.779 --> 00:50:04.619
It was uh for the Olympic committee, and uh I did not pass the interview, and then half a year later I was working on a different event from that organization, and I was working as a simultaneous interpreter for them, but from the outside, and I think that was that was interesting.
00:50:04.619 --> 00:50:06.219
That was interesting, yeah.
00:50:06.219 --> 00:50:09.579
Like uh it's still it still came back to you no matter what.
00:50:09.579 --> 00:50:20.859
Um, I've had I have guests on here that have started their their careers as an interpreter simultaneous with topics such as um conferences on rocks.
00:50:20.859 --> 00:50:33.420
So I always find it interesting when when people share the types of topics that um they've had to interpret for, and just what that even might look like in terms in your case of research, right?
00:50:33.420 --> 00:50:35.179
What are you researching in that case?
00:50:35.179 --> 00:50:36.299
What are you focusing on?
00:50:36.299 --> 00:50:47.819
Vladimir, I feel like your experience with your background and the way in which you approach practice and research to prepare for assignments.
00:50:47.819 --> 00:51:01.179
Technology has since changed from the time that you started your research career and the limited access that you had to content to now having things such as AI.
00:51:01.179 --> 00:51:11.659
Talk to us now about, you know, your as far as you see it from your lens, what technology can do or should do for us as interpreters?
00:51:11.659 --> 00:51:23.900
How could we use this tool to become better interpreters, or perhaps in the field or the profession, what should we be looking at in terms of technology and the profession?
00:51:23.900 --> 00:51:30.219
Yeah, I think the AI topic is now a very hot one, and everyone obviously has an opinion.
00:51:30.219 --> 00:51:38.699
And what I'm about to share is obviously only my opinion, and in a way it represents the real situation.
00:51:38.699 --> 00:51:41.739
Maybe it represents, maybe it doesn't, I'm not sure.
00:51:41.739 --> 00:52:04.539
So I think before we start this, I have to say that maybe there is some misconception of uh what AI can do and what AI is compared to what it was before, because when I hear two other interpreters say, Well, we had this in the 1960s, it's the same, and it's clearly not the same.
00:52:04.539 --> 00:52:09.019
It's not exactly better, but it is different.
00:52:09.019 --> 00:52:14.059
So previously we had it was like this um Jeopardy show I was talking about before.
00:52:14.059 --> 00:52:16.059
It was more like a trivia quiz.
00:52:16.059 --> 00:52:18.299
You have a question, you have an answer.
00:52:18.299 --> 00:52:24.619
So you have a word in English, a word in Spanish, or in Russian, and then you have the connection between them.
00:52:24.619 --> 00:52:30.139
And that was one of the reasons Google Translate was not very good at the job, at the job.
00:52:30.139 --> 00:52:39.659
But now AI is a statistical model, and statistical model is significantly different and different from from this from this previous approach.
00:52:39.659 --> 00:52:46.460
First of all, we have to understand that since it's a statistical model, it operates in averages.
00:52:46.460 --> 00:52:59.659
The interpretation it can provide will be good on average, it will not be great, it will not be awful, it will be good on average, and it also highly depends on the quality of input.
00:52:59.659 --> 00:53:05.099
And this is one of the biggest limitations of the whole AI as it currently stands.
00:53:05.099 --> 00:53:10.779
And the second thing, I think what I think is important, is that we have three levels.
00:53:10.779 --> 00:53:27.099
The AI has to listen to the people speak, and then the AI has to translate or interpret it, basically doing the actual work, which is machine translation, and then it has to produce the speech.
00:53:27.099 --> 00:53:35.099
So we have these three different stages, and it shows the best results at the final stage at the production of speech.
00:53:35.099 --> 00:53:42.619
Some people may like it, some people may not like it because of how it sounds, maybe a little bit robotic.
00:53:42.619 --> 00:53:48.380
But but objectively, this is the best of the stages it can do.
00:53:48.380 --> 00:53:51.980
The first and second are where the most problems are.
00:53:51.980 --> 00:54:00.139
So the biggest challenge somehow is for AI to listen clearly to the source.
00:54:00.139 --> 00:54:05.339
And unless this is solved, we cannot move to the second problem.
00:54:05.339 --> 00:54:21.259
And the second problem has to deal with context because AI is really good at machine translation when it has the full context and it can still make mistakes there, but it's not very good in a dynamic context.
00:54:21.259 --> 00:54:24.539
So we have three stages.
00:54:24.539 --> 00:54:34.539
The first stage I would say is practically solved and it's a matter of taste, but the first stage has a lot of false positives and false negatives.
00:54:34.539 --> 00:54:43.259
Sometimes people talk over each other, sometimes some sounds are recognized as words and they are just background noise.
00:54:43.259 --> 00:54:47.259
So this is a big problem, and currently there is no solution.
00:54:47.259 --> 00:54:57.500
Maybe it will change because now the the world is changing so fast, and by the time the this podcast is published, maybe what I say will be outdated.
00:54:57.500 --> 00:55:00.619
So it's a very, very fast pace now.
00:55:00.619 --> 00:55:08.139
And the second the second stage is heavily dependent on the quality of machine translation.
00:55:08.139 --> 00:55:16.940
So basically, what I mean is that if we cannot have perfect machine translation, we cannot have adequate interpreting.
00:55:16.940 --> 00:55:33.259
Because these two are dependent, and you have to have perfect machine translation for it to be useful in interpreting, because it's context-dependent and it's uh in real time, and it also has an additional problem of collecting the information.
00:55:33.259 --> 00:55:35.659
So this is one of the things.
00:55:35.659 --> 00:55:56.699
And the second thing, or maybe a third or fourth thing, which I wanted to mention is that if we take a step back, so we are currently talking about interpreting as a profession or maybe simultaneous interpreting as an activity, but if we take a step back at and look at the world and see potential AI application with this context.
00:55:56.699 --> 00:56:06.219
So suppose somebody creates an AI which can do simultaneous interpreting just as good, maybe better than interpreters.
00:56:06.219 --> 00:56:10.940
By definition, it will also mean that it can do many other things.
00:56:10.940 --> 00:56:19.259
It will be an expert in chat communication, it will be used in different communication companies, online, maybe in banking.
00:56:19.259 --> 00:56:42.779
And my personal opinion is that if we come to the stage where AI can interpret better than humans, we as interpreters will have other problems to worry about, mostly mostly economical encryption, credit cards, and different stuff, security.
00:56:42.779 --> 00:56:59.420
So that that's an interesting conundrum because you kind of have to worry about it, but when you really think that it has to be so good that it also be good at other things, and other things are actually more impactful on our lives.
00:56:59.420 --> 00:57:00.699
So interesting.
00:57:00.699 --> 00:57:01.900
Yeah, definitely.
00:57:01.900 --> 00:57:06.059
I I can see how we should be worrying about the other things as well.
00:57:06.059 --> 00:57:19.819
It sounds like AI has the same uh the same problems we do, though, as human interpreters, when it it comes to sound quality, being able to hear um clearly what everyone is saying, especially when we're doing some remote stuff.
00:57:19.819 --> 00:57:24.059
The the need for context around the topics that we are interpreting for, right?
00:57:24.059 --> 00:57:26.940
Sounds like sounds like the human uh problems as well.
00:57:26.940 --> 00:57:38.779
Vladimir, as we get down to the close of our episode today, it's been absolutely intriguing to hear just your take from that angle, that scientific research angle.
00:57:38.779 --> 00:58:06.460
I I do want to take the opportunity to ask you if you were to start again with this career, what would be those things that you would maybe do differently or maybe encourage your younger self to do um and to focus on as also a way to share with other potential interpreters maybe some advice on when they're getting started in their career?
00:58:06.460 --> 00:58:10.779
What would be some of those things that you would now share with your past self?
00:58:10.779 --> 00:58:27.980
I would say that if I had an opportunity to study in a good interpreting school, if I had an opportunity to mostly a good interpreting school, because the reason I did not go to an interpreting school is I simply could not afford it.
00:58:27.980 --> 00:58:36.539
I didn't have the money to study there, and that's why everything I do and everything I did was to compensate for it.
00:58:36.539 --> 00:58:51.259
So my advice to people who are maybe looking into the profession and to my past self: if you have an opportunity to have good fundamental education, you definitely should have it.
00:58:51.259 --> 00:59:03.259
Because you can do additional things to improve it, but it's really, really hard to completely replace it on your own.
00:59:03.259 --> 00:59:05.500
That that that's the the basic gist.
00:59:05.500 --> 00:59:25.019
Because I I think it's very important to understand that whatever I do right now, in most cases, is because I did not have an opportunity to get the proper education, and this is my way to catching up to the rest of the population, so to say.
00:59:25.019 --> 00:59:40.859
And maybe some things are some things are more effective, most things I would say less effective, and just because I'm doing this alone, as opposed to having a mentor, maybe a number of different teachers, that that's definitely a difference here.
00:59:40.859 --> 00:59:49.579
And obviously, if you go to a really good interpreting schools, you you have your network as a baseline.
00:59:49.579 --> 00:59:57.900
And people who go into interpreting from outside, they usually do not have these connections.
00:59:57.900 --> 01:00:02.940
Some people have connections from their previous work, and sometimes it works.
01:00:02.940 --> 01:00:10.460
In my case, it didn't work because I did not have any useful connections for for my new activity.
01:00:10.460 --> 01:00:17.019
So, yeah, definitely if you can get a good fundamental education, you definitely should have it.
01:00:17.019 --> 01:00:18.380
Thank you, Vladimir.
01:00:18.380 --> 01:00:26.380
I think that definitely speaks to many individuals that are interested in maybe doing a career change or maybe just starting.
01:00:26.380 --> 01:00:37.420
And sometimes the resources aren't there necessarily, but I think what I appreciate about your story and us sharing it with this particular audience is that you didn't let that stop you.
01:00:37.420 --> 01:00:53.739
You you worked around it, researching potential uh uh ways in which you could improve in this profession and what you can do to basically become uh something that you wanted to become.
01:00:53.739 --> 01:01:01.579
So you didn't let the the the the lack of formal training stop you, which I love that, but you still found ways to be able to improve.
01:01:01.579 --> 01:01:07.500
And I think that you know that says a lot about you, and then that could potentially give hope to those that say, I can't.
01:01:07.500 --> 01:01:12.699
Because I can't afford formal training or formal schooling to become an interpreter.
01:01:12.699 --> 01:01:17.179
There are ways that you can still go about it just to get your foot in the door.
01:01:17.179 --> 01:01:33.099
And I also appreciate you sharing about making connections and networking because I think that that's something that really supports us in the work that we do and being able to just have whether it's a mentor or someone to ask questions and see what they're doing, that's really important.
01:01:33.099 --> 01:01:39.579
Being able to do that with like-minded individuals, it's always very helpful for our careers.
01:01:39.579 --> 01:01:42.699
We're going to get ready to wrap up today's episode, Vladimir.
01:01:42.699 --> 01:01:49.500
But before we go, I'd like to just ask: is there any last piece of advice that you would like to share with this particular audience?
01:01:49.500 --> 01:01:56.460
Just last insight, anything that you know would like to say here on this platform before we close?
01:01:56.460 --> 01:02:06.380
Yes, uh, there's one thing I wanted to mention is I would advise people to go and learn a little bit about biases, different biases.
01:02:06.380 --> 01:02:12.779
And particularly it's important to at least be aware of those biases.
01:02:12.779 --> 01:02:16.859
And I think the most important one is the confirmation bias.
01:02:16.859 --> 01:02:26.139
Because the confirmation bias is basically when you look for information, opinions, for advice which already support your opinion.
01:02:26.139 --> 01:02:30.859
So my opinion is correct not because it's correct, it's correct because it's my opinion.
01:02:30.859 --> 01:02:43.980
This is uh what confirmation bias is all about, and it's so fundamental that it both solves many problems and it also opens up your eyes at what happens around us.
01:02:43.980 --> 01:02:46.940
Because critical thinking is very important.
01:02:46.940 --> 01:03:02.699
You have to be able to read and understand of what's going on in the world, and you have to be able to critically take in information, feedback, anything goes, anything that happens to you, you have to be able to process it critically.
01:03:02.699 --> 01:03:11.420
Obviously, it's important to process it emotionally, but what I'm saying is that there is definitely a lack of critical thinking just in general.
01:03:11.420 --> 01:03:18.059
I'm I'm not talking about interpreters specifically, I'm talking about generally about the general population.
01:03:18.059 --> 01:03:30.380
So, yes, um, just learn about biases, and I think confirmation bias is the first and the very biggest biases is for for all the humans to be at least aware of it.
01:03:30.380 --> 01:03:35.900
It it's really, really hard to avoid, but I think it's important to know about it.
01:03:35.900 --> 01:03:37.420
So at least know about it.
01:03:37.420 --> 01:03:38.940
That's a great word of advice.
01:03:38.940 --> 01:03:39.420
Thank you.
01:03:39.420 --> 01:03:40.619
Thank you, Vladimir.
01:03:40.619 --> 01:03:46.299
Last question for you: where can our listeners find out more about you and the work that you do?
01:03:46.299 --> 01:03:55.980
Yes, I'm I'm pretty active on LinkedIn, and this is where I posted most of my stuff and career and language related.
01:03:55.980 --> 01:04:13.579
I had a sort of mini challenge which I started two, two, three years ago, and I posted for a year for 365 days straight every day, just to see what happens.
01:04:13.579 --> 01:04:19.739
And that's actually a topic for a different discussion, but many interesting things happened.
01:04:19.739 --> 01:04:26.219
So if you have nothing better to do, you can look it up and you can just scroll down.
01:04:26.219 --> 01:04:30.619
There are roughly 365 posts there.
01:04:30.619 --> 01:04:32.699
Every single day?
01:04:32.699 --> 01:04:35.099
Every single day for for a year.
01:04:35.099 --> 01:04:38.699
Interpreting related, interpreting and language related.
01:04:38.699 --> 01:04:51.179
It's actually that that's very interesting because for me it was a very big deal at the time, but I also wanted it to make, I did not want it to make an obligation, I wanted it to make a commitment.
01:04:51.179 --> 01:04:56.619
Because I wanted it to come from within, I did not tell anyone about it.
01:04:56.619 --> 01:05:08.940
So what you usually do and what you should do, and I I really believe you should do this, you should tell all your friends, all your colleagues that I'm starting this podcast and I'm starting this LinkedIn challenge.
01:05:08.940 --> 01:05:15.980
And if I don't do this, please you have to come and shave me, and I have to do this again and again and again.
01:05:15.980 --> 01:05:20.059
And yeah, I basically wanted to do the opposite one.
01:05:20.059 --> 01:05:28.219
I wanted everything to come from within, and there was only one rule: if I skip a day, I lose.
01:05:28.219 --> 01:05:37.579
Wow, I mean, that is major commitment to be able to have something to say for 365 days to the to the unknown public.
01:05:37.579 --> 01:05:38.940
Amazing LinkedIn.
01:05:38.940 --> 01:05:52.699
Yeah, so there are many things on LinkedIn, and one of the most interesting experiences which happened on LinkedIn is that I had a single post which I spent roughly about eight hours to create.
01:05:52.699 --> 01:05:56.380
It was a single page, but I spent almost the whole day.
01:05:56.380 --> 01:06:14.299
I did my research, I wrote the text, I rewrote the text, I tried to inject some words so that it would look great, it would seem great, and I think it got like maybe 100 views and two likes, something like this.
01:06:14.299 --> 01:06:31.179
And I spent eight hours trying to create this, and then my biggest post has I think 55,000 views and like 103 posts and thousands of reactions, and I spent two minutes creating it.
01:06:31.179 --> 01:06:52.619
I can, I mean, I don't I don't know that I've had anything that viral, but um, but I can definitely relate, spending so much time trying to create something, and it's like the effort is so big and the the result is just so minimal, and you're just like, oh, there was so much work involved, and then that piece is that you just you know you barely think about and just post is what gets an a reaction.
01:06:52.619 --> 01:06:57.179
I don't know what the story behind all that is, but I can definitely you know relate to that.
01:06:57.179 --> 01:07:00.380
So LinkedIn, uh Vladimir Kitts Find him.
01:07:00.380 --> 01:07:06.460
I will have his uh social media links in the description of this episode today.
01:07:06.460 --> 01:07:08.139
So make sure you make the connection.
01:07:08.139 --> 01:07:10.699
You will enjoy his posts, guaranteed.
01:07:10.699 --> 01:07:17.980
There's humor in it, there's learning opportunities, and there's a lot of engagement from uh other professionals in the field.
01:07:17.980 --> 01:07:22.219
So make sure you find him on LinkedIn if you are uh already on LinkedIn.
01:07:22.219 --> 01:07:27.179
Vladimir, it has been such a pleasure and a privilege to have you on the show.
01:07:27.179 --> 01:07:33.900
Thank you so much for being here, and I look forward to connecting with you continuously uh with your posts on LinkedIn.
01:07:33.900 --> 01:07:39.259
Thank you very much, uh Mire, for the invitation and for thoughtful questions.
01:07:39.259 --> 01:07:49.900
And obviously, I wish you good luck with your podcast and what you do, giving interpreters the voice to speak on this platform.
01:07:49.900 --> 01:07:51.819
I think it's uh it's a great thing.
01:07:51.819 --> 01:07:53.099
So thank you for this.
01:07:53.099 --> 01:07:55.900
365 posts.
01:07:55.900 --> 01:07:58.299
I mean, that does definitely take commitment.
01:07:58.299 --> 01:07:59.980
What did you get out of that?
01:07:59.980 --> 01:08:05.019
First of all, let help us understand why this was a thing for you.
01:08:05.019 --> 01:08:08.940
Why did it come up as LinkedIn posts?
01:08:08.940 --> 01:08:11.099
And what did you get out of this?
01:08:11.099 --> 01:08:11.980
What was the result?
01:08:11.980 --> 01:08:15.420
Yeah, I think um this was a combination of things.
01:08:15.420 --> 01:08:28.300
So, first of all, this happens because I moved from Russia to to Serbia, and I had to kind of find a new way at the international arena, the international market.
01:08:28.300 --> 01:08:30.859
So this was one of the components.
01:08:30.859 --> 01:08:45.819
Second thing is that for me personally, it was a little bit of um it was a challenge, but because I'm naturally I'm not uh really an extrovert, I'm more of an introvert, and this is not normal.
01:08:45.819 --> 01:08:56.300
For me, it's very not normal to post for for a year sharing my ideas, my thoughts, some personal experience from the past.
01:08:56.300 --> 01:09:06.779
But the people who read this have, in most cases, no preconceived version of Vladimir because this is the first time they interact with me.
01:09:06.779 --> 01:09:21.260
And I think it would be an interesting experience just to compare what I had, what kind of perspective I had on myself and what kind of perspective people have on me without knowing my past self.
01:09:21.260 --> 01:09:24.699
So it was a little bit psychological here.
01:09:24.699 --> 01:09:51.899
I also wanted to push my my boundaries and my comfort zone a little bit, because what I did there was very, very uncomfortable, and it it was not it was mostly uncomfortable in the sense like I I know, I know that the quality of your work, the quality of a post does not depend on the reactions and the comments people give you.
01:09:51.899 --> 01:10:00.779
I know this, but still, when you post something and get zero reactions and nothing, it feels bad.
01:10:00.779 --> 01:10:08.539
Even you know you should not gauge your activity by these metrics, it still feels bad.
01:10:08.539 --> 01:10:11.819
And when it gets a lot of them, it still feels good.
01:10:11.819 --> 01:10:17.979
So even if you know it intellectually, you still react to them to them as a person.
01:10:17.979 --> 01:10:23.420
So I wanted to expand a little bit in this area and to experience this.
01:10:23.420 --> 01:10:32.939
I had no idea if any of my ideas would actually be even remotely close to interesting, so I have zero preconceived notion of what would happen.
01:10:32.939 --> 01:10:48.699
And I also wanted to use a neutral audience because I think one of the biggest things you can work with LinkedIn is that you can have a friendly audience and you can post whatever and it will be it will get high engagement.
01:10:48.699 --> 01:10:56.059
If people love you or like you for whatever reason, basically whatever you say will get high engagement.
01:10:56.059 --> 01:11:02.300
And I wanted to see if I can provide some value to a neutral group.
01:11:02.300 --> 01:11:07.260
So, and for that reason, I went on LinkedIn, it's a professional platform.
01:11:07.260 --> 01:11:10.539
Professionals all around the world use it.
01:11:10.539 --> 01:11:29.579
And I didn't really have a LinkedIn profile before, and I added I think 200, maybe 250 people, and of those 200, 250 people, I knew about 50 people, and of these 50 people I personally knew like 10.
01:11:29.579 --> 01:11:35.340
So for me, it was a very neutral audience, and then it grew.
01:11:35.340 --> 01:11:42.220
So I was posting day after day to make it a little bit easier for me.
01:11:42.220 --> 01:11:47.180
I split the topics into seven topics.
01:11:47.180 --> 01:11:57.659
So on Monday I was talking about business and marketing, on Tuesday, I was given tips and tricks, on Wednesday, I was talking about some weird wisdom.
01:11:57.659 --> 01:12:05.180
On Thursday, I was given a throwback Thursday when I was talking about my past experiences as an interpreter.
01:12:05.180 --> 01:12:13.340
On Friday, I posted Funny Memes, which became, I think, the most popular part of my LinkedIn experience.
01:12:13.340 --> 01:12:24.539
On Saturday, I shared someone else's social Saturday posts to drive more engagement and to connect with people.
01:12:24.539 --> 01:12:42.859
And on Sunday, I tried to organize this makeshift book club where I shared some books which I read and then I just shared my thoughts about them, and maybe some other people would like to read about them.
01:12:42.859 --> 01:12:55.340
And for me, because I did this, I practically reduced my mental load seven times because I was not posting it every day, I was posting it every week.
01:12:55.340 --> 01:13:03.899
Today I have to write about marketing, and the next time I have to write about marketing in linguistics or interpreting, the next Monday.
01:13:03.899 --> 01:13:13.579
And the next time, so today I write about my past experience as an interpreter, and the next time I have to do this will be in a week.
01:13:13.579 --> 01:13:21.979
So I kind of tricked myself by splitting all these topics into seven ones day by day.
01:13:21.979 --> 01:13:27.099
And by doing this, I would say it's very, very effective.
01:13:27.099 --> 01:13:36.539
So this really helped me to not to get overwhelmed and not just get lost in whatever happened there.
01:13:36.539 --> 01:14:07.340
And and I see that one of the reasons people stop doing LinkedIn content is because they become overwhelmed, because they do exactly the same thing over and over again, and because of that, I tackled problems in my profession from different angles, and because it's you try and approach it from different angles, it feels like it's a completely different post and not related to the previous one at all.
01:14:07.340 --> 01:14:11.019
Did you ever run out of ideas, even though you had topics?
01:14:11.019 --> 01:14:17.819
Did you ever come across moments when you're like, I don't know what to say about throwback Thursdays?
01:14:17.819 --> 01:14:19.019
Yeah, yeah, sure.
01:14:19.019 --> 01:14:36.939
Uh sometimes you just uh have no material, you run out of you run out of ideas, you run out of time, sometimes you're just so busy that you have to post today because you've made a commitment, but um there is nothing on your mind, there is nothing in the backlog.
01:14:36.939 --> 01:14:44.059
I I think at the time when when I started, I had ideas for two months.
01:14:44.059 --> 01:14:52.300
And after two months, I had to think, do research, and create the post during the same day.
01:14:52.300 --> 01:15:07.019
So previously I had something in the bank, but later it was just basically I was looking around constantly for ideas, what I can talk about, what I can write about.
01:15:07.019 --> 01:15:23.579
And you also have to think about something which is not only useful to me, it might be useful to other interpreters, and then it's a global audience, so it's not just with Russian, it may be with English, or maybe it's something which is international.
01:15:23.579 --> 01:15:39.420
And I think that's one of the reasons when you get into this weird search mode, you start living a little bit differently because now you can just go and do your everyday work and it doesn't really matter.
01:15:39.420 --> 01:16:18.380
But if you know that by the end of this day I have to create something useful for other people, you you pay attention, you pay attention to just a random conversation on the street, you pay attention to something you read online, you pay attention to something you just heard from a really good conversation on YouTube, and then you make uh one step more, then you make connections with the previous experience, and then you can present something useful for other people, and sometimes it's just uh my bitter experience devoid of any personality.
01:16:18.380 --> 01:16:36.779
Sometimes if you like really pay attention to some of the posts, you can find that okay, so this is where I failed an interview, and this is where I got from this interview, and this is I tried this is my way of making lemonade out of lemons.
01:16:36.779 --> 01:16:42.460
So if I fail an interview, at least I can find something useful, maybe share it on LinkedIn.
01:16:42.460 --> 01:16:45.019
What did you learn from this experience?
01:16:45.019 --> 01:16:46.220
What was your takeaway?
01:16:46.220 --> 01:16:59.659
Well, first of all, I did not expect I wanted to complete the challenge, but I did not expect that it would complete the challenge because there are so many times I I've given up before, and why would this be any different?
01:16:59.659 --> 01:17:01.579
But for some reason it was different.
01:17:01.579 --> 01:17:10.140
I also think it was very interesting to see that people started to react with the posts I had no idea they would react to.
01:17:10.140 --> 01:17:19.739
So, for example, when I post something, I say, I think in my head, well, this is really useful and this is really valuable, and nobody cares.
01:17:19.739 --> 01:17:31.899
And then you post something and you think this is just some throwaway idea, maybe nobody should care about this, but since I have this challenge, I should post it.
01:17:31.899 --> 01:17:49.099
And for some reason, people care and find it important and deep, and I think it maybe provides some valuable feedback on what's actually useful in my head and what's not so useful.
01:17:49.099 --> 01:17:54.939
So, yeah, it was a little bit of back and forth, and just to understand what kind of ideas are useful or not.
01:17:54.939 --> 01:18:07.340
But you also learn about a lot about the algorithm of LinkedIn and how it operates, because well, people don't use this terminology, but I would say there are champions of opinions on LinkedIn.
01:18:07.340 --> 01:18:22.059
And these are people who come to your comment section, they leave a like, they leave a comment, and after that, your post will get significantly more engagement as opposed to any other person coming and doing the same.
01:18:22.059 --> 01:18:25.099
So there is different, definitely this kind of things.
01:18:25.099 --> 01:18:43.979
And these champions of opinions they exist in any industry, and obviously they exist in interpreting too, and you can see the difference between when they interact with your post and when they don't interact with your posts, and it's also interesting just from the data perspective.
01:18:43.979 --> 01:18:47.340
The main reason I did this because it is unreasonable.
01:18:47.340 --> 01:19:02.859
It is unreasonable to interpret the same TED talk 400 times, it is unreasonable to do the research every day, so you have two weeks to prepare for an assignment and you do your research for straight two weeks.
01:19:02.859 --> 01:19:13.180
It is unreasonable to post for 365 days on LinkedIn every day when you practically have nothing to say and you're just trying to fight your shame.
01:19:13.180 --> 01:19:31.099
And in my case, I think it wasn't it was necessary to do because I have to catch up with the rest of the interpreters, with the rest of the population in my combination, because they are so good and and I have to I have to do extra.
01:19:31.099 --> 01:19:35.340
And yes, in this case, I have to do something unreasonable.
01:19:35.340 --> 01:20:01.819
I really love this strategy for for many reasons, but I think more than anything, for the challenge that you know, you challenged yourself to do something that goes opposite of what you would normally do, such as you know, thinking that it's extroverts really that are always just they have a lot of opinion perhaps or have a lot to share, and don't think about it twice to post it on social media.
01:20:01.819 --> 01:20:11.099
I know I did that with the podcast, and um, just being on social media like Instagram and video format, that's definitely a challenge.
01:20:11.099 --> 01:20:27.899
Um, but I think I've gained so much more from pushing myself to do something that feels uncomfortable than from not doing it and staying behind the scenes sort of sheepishly because I'm I'm too afraid or I'm too embarrassed or um, you know, just I'm too of an introvert to to share.
01:20:27.899 --> 01:20:33.180
It it's how you grow, I think just pushing yourself makes a big difference.
01:20:33.180 --> 01:20:34.779
So I love that strategy.
01:20:34.779 --> 01:20:44.539
I don't know if I'm going to challenge myself to do 365 posts, but I really like how you compartmentalize the topics per per day.
01:20:44.539 --> 01:20:46.059
I think that is very useful.
01:20:46.059 --> 01:20:57.340
And it it just allows us the opportunity as we're growing on social media to think about it that way so that maybe we can get ourselves out there and share more about our profession in a way in which it doesn't seem so scary.
01:20:57.340 --> 01:21:07.500
Yeah, and if I were to suggest uh one thing for the community, it would be great if we had one, maybe two people who have.
01:21:07.500 --> 01:21:24.380
Really powerful LinkedIn accounts who would host those social satellite events because there are some people on LinkedIn who post this weekly, maybe bi-weekly, and they get thousands of comments and millions of views.
01:21:24.380 --> 01:21:33.420
And what it basically means is that it's a live board of people who are looking for job opportunities and people who can provide job opportunities.
01:21:33.420 --> 01:21:42.220
But if somebody with low follower count would do, like something like me, it would not have the same effect.
01:21:42.220 --> 01:21:47.979
It would be well, maybe five, maybe ten people would see it, but it would not work.
01:21:47.979 --> 01:21:57.739
So for it to work, it has to be someone from someone who is very popular and who is very powerful, so to say, in the interpreting community.
01:21:57.739 --> 01:22:01.659
And if they do this, this could benefit the whole community.
01:22:01.659 --> 01:22:02.140
Yeah.
01:22:02.140 --> 01:22:13.979
Just because of the visibility, people would post and comment, and the clients from different industries would see that, oh, so this person is active, this is a real person, they are looking for this kind of job.
01:22:13.979 --> 01:22:19.180
Yeah, but uh for this, you have to you need a strong account for this.
01:22:19.180 --> 01:22:20.220
Such great.
01:22:20.220 --> 01:22:22.140
I thank you so much for having shared that.
01:22:22.140 --> 01:22:29.180
I think that's definitely a great experience, and maybe I don't know, it inspires you to go out there and uh start doing some posts.
01:22:29.180 --> 01:22:30.220
Maybe, maybe.
01:22:30.220 --> 01:22:31.420
Thank you, Vladimir.
01:22:31.420 --> 01:22:32.140
Thank you.