Filling the Internal Audit Talent Gap (Bonus Content)

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The Institute of Internal Auditors presents all
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things internal audit.
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In this episode, Amanda Joe Irvin talks
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with Desiree Rivera about developing the next generation
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of internal auditors.
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They discuss attracting new talent, making,
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internal audit a more appealing profession,
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and the power of mentorship and community.
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Hey, Joe, so nice to see you.
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Thank you so much for joining me today.
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I've known you for about two years now,
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and I know how active you are in the internal audit
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community and all of the awesome things
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that you're doing at MSU Denver.
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Could you tell me a little bit about your journey in the
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field of internal auditing
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and really what inspired you to become an educator?
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Sure. Yeah. I,
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I can't believe I'm approaching 20 years in internal audit.
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So I actually started in public accounting like many
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of us did 20 years ago.
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And we'll talk about how, uh, that has shifted
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and in our favor as internal auditors.
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But, um, started in in public accounting at a big four firm,
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but learned very quickly that that was not for me.
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So I was one of those people that ignored the advice,
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you know, you have to stay until you make senior
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manager or all that.
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And I, I said, no, I've done my time.
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And I actually got a great job in internal audit
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and ended up working at that company for about 11 years.
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Uh, worked my way up from staff to director
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of internal audit, left about six years ago now,
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a little over six years,
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and decided that my favorite part
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of my job in internal audit was teaching new staff,
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training our staff on system implementations.
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You know, when we got a new
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audit software, I loved doing that.
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So I think teaching
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and training has just always been in my blood
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and internal audit has always been my passion.
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So it just was perfect.
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All, it's like all the stars aligned for me.
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Desiree, it was great. Uh, when, uh, MSU actually asked me
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to be on their board first.
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Uh, they had an internal audit board as they were trying
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to become an IAEP school,
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which I'm sure you'll explain what that is.
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Uh, and then I was lucky enough
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to be active on the board enough that they, when the current
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director of the program retired, they asked me to,
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to take her place.
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So it just kind of all aligned
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for me about almost two years ago now.
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Awesome. And you said the word passion,
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and that's really like the best way to describe you
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and your teaching style, and it just really shines
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and everyone can see how passionate you're, so, yeah,
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It's, it's hard. It's
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hard to, when you actually even have a, a tattoo
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of the i i a logo on your arm, it's hard
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to hide your passion
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for the internal audit profession when you're me.
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So
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You couldn't have said it better.
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Yep. Along those same lines
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and your passion for students, could you tell me
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what the biggest challenges are
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that you see today in the internal audit talent pipeline?
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So I think everyone probably is reading about the
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accounting pipeline and how we're losing, um, accountants,
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and I'm gonna say sadly,
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but I'm not, I'm not really sad about it.
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But sadly, internal audit, at least at our university,
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still still sits under the accounting department.
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And, you know, I think that is the biggest challenge to me.
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And it's forcing me though,
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what I love about this is it's forcing me to go outside
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of our accounting department, into our business schools,
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into even our STEM classes, um, our cybersecurity school
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that's completely outside of the business school
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and attract new talent and different talent.
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And I think, you know, along the lines of, of
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where I started by saying, you know, when I was in college,
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we graduated 20 years ago
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and we had to go into public accounting,
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that was just what you did.
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It has shifted over time.
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And I think it's about educating, it's about teaching
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and showing the students
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that there's something else out there.
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And so to me, the biggest challenge I would say is getting
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the students in, right, which I think is everywhere.
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And then marketing internal audit to them,
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because it still is a bit unknown.
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So you have to have that passion.
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You have to go
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and do, you know, pop-ins at different classes.
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I'd love to pop into like intro to business
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and be like, Hey, do you know about internal audit?
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So you just have
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to kind outta your niche, if that makes sense.
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Yeah. And you really kind of touched on,
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on my next question
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because you guys are so creative over there in your kind
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of recruitment and your way
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of bringing awareness to the profession.
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So is there anything specific that you could share
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that has been really successful in attracting kind
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of these students for internal audit?
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Sure. So I think a, it's attending, attending, attending.
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So, you know, a lot of us on faculty, you know,
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we do our best to be everywhere at once,
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but part of, one of the biggest things I do is I, I try
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to go to everything.
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So, you know, we have welcome week that where, you know,
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we give out hot dogs.
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And so I'm there, um, you know,
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talking about internal audit, talking about,
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so I'm also the accounting student organization,
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the a SO at our, at our school, uh, faculty advisor.
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So I'm always trying to recruit students
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one way or another, right?
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Depending on which hat I have on.
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But, you know, it's, it's going to orientation night
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for our graduate school.
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I love it. They get to meet their cohort
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that they're gonna go through grad school with.
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But it's also my opportunity to stand up, introduce myself
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and say, Hey, I teach these awesome classes,
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you know, on internal audit.
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And one of my classes is one
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of three experiential learning options,
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and they have to take one, you know,
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but they get to pick between, you know, small business
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or, um, let's see, what's the other one?
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I'm, I'm totally spacing what the other one is.
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Uh, but one of mine is obviously internal audit
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where we audit the university.
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So I love to sell that class.
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I love to stand up and just be like, you know,
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you're gonna have to take one of these, you know, here's,
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here's your option and please pick mine.
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So I think, um, I think a lot of, a lot of the role is
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as a salesperson and,
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and you don't think of that as a faculty member,
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but that is how I view my role.
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So it's, it's being in front
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of everybody is anywhere I can honestly,
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I think that's why you're so awesome and effective at it.
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Um, and it's a great resume builder for students.
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So I'm sure, because that's something really unique
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that you do over at MSU serving kind of
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as like the internal audit function at
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the university, right?
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Correct. Yeah. So I mean,
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really we are the third line at the university.
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I tell my grad students to change their
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email signatures even for the semester.
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They are student internal auditors
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and they're, you know, held to every confidentiality,
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you know, all of those things that, that
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I'm gonna put in air quotes, not that everybody can see
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that, um, normal internal auditors are.
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So that is, um, you know, it is, I've helped lots
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of our students put that on their resume
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'cause it's an internship essentially for a semester.
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So it is great to show employers that you've had that.
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Awesome. Um, so what kind of, what key skills
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and competencies, uh, would you say are really essential
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for this next generation of internal auditors?
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I just gave one away sales.
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So it's so funny for, you know, I'd say probably about 10
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or 15 years, um, as I was hiring internal audit staff and,
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and going through interviews, I would just always love
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to ask the question, how comfortable are you
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being a salesperson?
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Or what sales experience have you had?
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And you know, of course they look at you like you're crazy
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because what does this have to do with internal audit?
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But the big piece that I feel like is hard to teach
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is that communication and that influence
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and selling our recommendations, our ideas,
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our enhancements, our improvements, all of those things
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to the business, that's the key
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to being a successful internal auditor.
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So I always like to have my students,
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they always present in my class, right?
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They, they have to have that, uh, ability to stand up
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and communicate,
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but I also really push them to sell me on something.
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Sell me on what would've made this better or, um,
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because I think that's such a key, um,
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competency in our field
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that we don't talk about all that much.
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You know, we might say communication,
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but to me it's really that, that influence in that selling.
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And I, and I don't, nobody loves that selling word, right?
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But there's that quote, selling equals trust,
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trust equals selling or, or however that goes.
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That that is perfect, right?
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We want them, if we wanna be a trusted advisor, we have
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to be able to really influence their, their decisions and,
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and sell them our ideas.
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Yeah. And that really sounds like something
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that makes them very competitive in the job market.
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So that's, that's a great kind of skillset
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to have and to really teach.
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Is there anything else that you would say
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that aspiring internal auditors, um, could really kind
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of add to their toolkit to differentiate themselves?
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You know, it's funny 'cause I I am grading case studies
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right now and, and we call 'em case studies,
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but they're really memos
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and I have 'em actually write memos to the board
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of directors because I want them to practice that
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succinct professional writing.
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So we actually do like a,
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a Harvard Business Publishing Guide
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to Better Business writing in my class pretty early on.
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And I tell them, this is not your typical academic class
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where you're gonna write a paper
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and you don't have to do all those fancy citations.
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What I want you to be able to do is to clearly write a memo.
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I don't even give 'em any page limits, right?
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They're not used to that. Well, what's my word limit?
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What's my page limit? No, there isn't.
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That doesn't happen in the real world.
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And if anything, we want you to learn to be succinct
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and clear and concise.
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And so to me, um, you know, communication is such a key part
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of internal audit, both verbal and written.
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And I think, you know, getting them outta
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that academic writing
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and into that professional writing is a competency I know
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I'm working with my students on, I honestly tell them
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to pretend they're writing in my class is more like
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an email than a memo.
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And, and so it's interesting
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to watch their brains shift there.
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Uh, and, and maybe think about how they write an email too,
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which is a skill, you know,
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I think is crucial in our, in our field.
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'cause we all know we don't like
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to pick up the phone anymore, right?
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We just write emails. So
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You're right.
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Right. Um, and then, you know, I'd say another skill
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or competency, however you wanna look at it,
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is creativity and curiosity.
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You know, those are two things
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that I really focus on in my class.
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In fact, I have them pretend that, um, you know, they,
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they get to pick a scandal in my class to write about,
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but they have to pretend
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that they were the internal auditor at that company,
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and they have to pretend that they are actually going
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to do an audit of whatever that, you know, scandal was over,
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whether it was an accounting manipulation
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or whatever it was.
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Uh, they have to pretend to uncover it first, right?
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So identify what the risks are, what controls are missing,
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you know, where the governance was lacking.
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And so to me, creativity is huge.
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And I think an internal audit that equates to thinking
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outside the box, you know, we use that term a lot,
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but it is not doing it the way we did it last year.
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It's not following, you know, those same,
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same procedure steps.
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It's thinking, okay, let's zero based audit, let's think,
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how can we attack this department topic, whatever it is
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in a whole new way.
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And so I think getting that curiosity and,
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and creativity out is super important.
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What would you say that seasoned,
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experienced internal auditors can do
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to contribute towards developing the next
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generation of talent?
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Ooh, I love this question
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because I love to involve my Denver, i, I a chapter friends
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and all the amazing network that I have built in, in Denver
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where I am, uh, in my classes.
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I actually assign each one
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of my students a mentor in the community.
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And it is such a great experience for not only the students
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to get to work with somebody other than me
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that's actually out there doing, you know, doing the work,
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even though I feel like I'm still doing the work every day.
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Uh, but to meet somebody
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and they get to get their opinion on
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how to approach something.
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So they actually work on a semester, kind
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of half a semester long project with their mentor
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where they are issuing a project announcement.
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They are doing a risk control matrix, you know,
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they're actually creating an audit report at the end
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of the day, and they get to run all of that by their mentor.
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So it's a great, uh, communication lesson
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because they have to have two meetings
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with their professional, whether in person or virtual,
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and it just gets them outside
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of the normal things you do in a classroom.
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So, and again, I know you asked about the, the people in our
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community, the experienced auditors, I think it's great
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for them to remember what it's like to be newer
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and to have to break something down and explain it.
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It honestly, I think, provides more aha moments to
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the mentors than it does the mentees sometimes.
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You know, I never, I never thought of this
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or doing it this way
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because students are also very creative.
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I had, um, a couple students in that class actually use AI
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to help create their audit report
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after they had done all the work.
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We got some gorgeous audit reports,
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and you don't usually think of audit
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reports as gorgeous, right?
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You're, you're going, what is that word?
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Uh, but just super cool one pagers, you know,
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executive summary off to the left.
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You gotta, you know, all, I don't know, some images.
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I just think you get such good
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different products from students.
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And I think it was an aha for some of my,
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my professionals in the room. So
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It was a mutual kind
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of learning relationship too, which is great.
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Absolutely. I actually have people asking me if they can
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do it next semester, so it's in the spring.
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So, yeah. So it's nice when you have mentors
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that wanna kind of knock on your door. So it's good.
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That is awesome. And that's also like an indirect plug for
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kudos to your chapter members
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and really the importance of their support
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because you do have a very active, engaged, uh, group
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of chapter leaders over there.
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And so, and, and that, that helps tremendously.
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So that's awesome.
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How would you say that organizations can tap into a global
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talent pool to address the skill shortages
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that are in the internal audit profession?
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So I think, you know, in talking to all these mentors
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to kind of bring it back to them
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and really talking about how are they finding new staff,
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number one, I think they are coming to universities more
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and more, which is great.
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It's great for programs like ours
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because, you know, I think there was this disconnect
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between employers in, you know,
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especially internal audit and universities.
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We weren't hiring directly from universities,
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and I know this from experience,
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but I think that is finally shifting
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and changing a little bit.
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And I was actually, um, able to get one
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of my undergrads into an internal audit internship.
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She had never done it before, and
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that's gonna be her life career now.
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And just from this one company taking a,
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a chance on an undergraduate, you know,
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still getting her her accounting degree,
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but really, really liked my class.
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So I think we're getting notice finally, you know, that,
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that some of these universities actually have good internal
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audit programs and you don't have to wait to hire them.
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And I would say that the second thing
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that organizations need to do more,
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and I had experience
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with this in my position in internal audit when I was the
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director, is we hired from the business.
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And getting
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that business knowledge into internal audit is so important.
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I think we worry too much about audit experience
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and we should focus more on business experience
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because I think we could teach people to audit.
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And I think that's something I do every day, right?
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I teach students what an internal audit is about,
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and I think it's getting the right people
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with the right skills and, you know, maybe
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that business knowledge.
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And so we had fantastic luck hiring people
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who were just interested in maybe going back to school
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or, you know, wanting to know more about internal audits.
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So I think organizations need to kind
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of poach people a little bit more.
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I think it's, it's kind of the opposite.
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Some places, you know, I think some businesses, you know,
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look at the internal auditors as,
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oh, they have great skills.
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They know so much about the business.
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You know, maybe they end up moving, leaving out
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of internal audit and going to work in the business.
394
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I think it needs to shift.
395
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I think we should pull people from the business
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into internal audit.
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I think they just have the insights into the business
398
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that sometimes it's harder to get in internal audit.
399
00:17:25,435 --> 00:17:27,725
Well, and then just to add to that, so
400
00:17:27,785 --> 00:17:29,125
as you are very familiar
401
00:17:29,315 --> 00:17:32,165
with our internal auditing education partnership program,
402
00:17:32,455 --> 00:17:35,405
since MSU Denver is one of our IAEP schools,
403
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we do have employers
404
00:17:37,645 --> 00:17:40,885
and organizations reach out to us all the time to kind
405
00:17:40,885 --> 00:17:43,725
of inquire and see what universities are affiliated
406
00:17:43,745 --> 00:17:45,805
and recognized by IA Global.
407
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We're teaching internal audit curriculum.
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And so we have those listed on our public sites,
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and they can see MSU Denver, along with all of our other,
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00:17:54,505 --> 00:17:57,885
uh, universities globally that are part
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00:17:57,885 --> 00:17:59,485
of our academic partnership programs
412
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for teaching internal audit curriculum,
413
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and really, uh, producing these outstanding internal audit,
414
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you know, ready graduates.
415
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So thanks for serving as one of our many IEP coordinators.
416
00:18:11,835 --> 00:18:14,895
You're awesome, Joe. And so we, you've been recognized for
417
00:18:14,895 --> 00:18:17,295
that, for your leadership, for your mentorship.
418
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What final piece of advice would you give
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to young professionals
420
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that are entering the internal audit field?
421
00:18:24,745 --> 00:18:27,845
So I think one of the pieces of advice that I love
422
00:18:27,845 --> 00:18:31,645
to give students applies really any field, honestly,
423
00:18:31,745 --> 00:18:34,765
but internal audit the same is find a company
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that matches your values personally, that you enjoy
425
00:18:40,435 --> 00:18:43,125
what they do, whether that's, you know, producing a good
426
00:18:43,425 --> 00:18:45,125
or some sort of service.
427
00:18:45,835 --> 00:18:48,765
I've just met so many people over my career
428
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that didn't even love the company they worked for.
429
00:18:52,305 --> 00:18:55,805
And so, you know, number one to me is find that company
430
00:18:55,835 --> 00:18:57,925
that just feels like a good fit.
431
00:18:58,065 --> 00:19:00,565
You know, whether that's, you know, their company values
432
00:19:01,105 --> 00:19:04,205
or people, everybody says people are really important.
433
00:19:04,505 --> 00:19:07,925
So, you know, how can you get to know the people, maybe go,
434
00:19:08,305 --> 00:19:11,005
you know, serve on a community service project with
435
00:19:11,005 --> 00:19:13,525
that company or, or something to get to know the culture
436
00:19:13,665 --> 00:19:14,765
of that organization.
437
00:19:14,765 --> 00:19:16,285
Because I think that's huge.
438
00:19:16,985 --> 00:19:20,755
And I think for internal audit, it's even more important
439
00:19:20,905 --> 00:19:22,795
that you love the place you work
440
00:19:23,105 --> 00:19:25,035
because then you're more passionate about
441
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what you are recommending and what you are selling
442
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and how you are influencing that company.
443
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If you've got that just little bit more of a connection
444
00:19:32,975 --> 00:19:35,635
to it, uh, I think you have such better
445
00:19:35,985 --> 00:19:37,155
passion in your career.
446
00:19:37,535 --> 00:19:40,955
So, like, for me, I think of it now, I love the university,
447
00:19:41,155 --> 00:19:42,595
I love serving the university.
448
00:19:42,835 --> 00:19:46,235
I love the mission to help students get access to higher ed
449
00:19:46,295 --> 00:19:47,675
for, for all students.
450
00:19:47,935 --> 00:19:52,355
So for me, I feel like I have this new passion to help MSU
451
00:19:52,355 --> 00:19:55,115
because I love what they do and, and love their mission.
452
00:19:55,295 --> 00:19:57,755
So I think that's just really, really important
453
00:19:57,815 --> 00:19:59,155
for everybody to remember.
454
00:19:59,705 --> 00:20:02,275
Well, thank you so much for all of the great advice,
455
00:20:02,495 --> 00:20:03,515
the great insights.
456
00:20:03,855 --> 00:20:06,755
The biggest takeaway I have from this conversation is just
457
00:20:06,755 --> 00:20:07,835
the passion that you have
458
00:20:07,935 --> 00:20:09,635
for the profession, for your students.
459
00:20:09,895 --> 00:20:12,795
And I know that many, uh, anyone who's gonna listen
460
00:20:12,795 --> 00:20:14,275
to this is gonna feel the same
461
00:20:14,275 --> 00:20:16,395
because they're just as passionate about kind
462
00:20:16,395 --> 00:20:18,315
of paying it forward and really bringing awareness
463
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to this amazing field and profession.
464
00:20:21,615 --> 00:20:23,595
Um, so thanks so much for joining me.
465
00:20:23,935 --> 00:20:24,955
You're awesome, Joe,
466
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and we appreciate everything and all of your insight.
467
00:20:28,285 --> 00:20:29,875
Thank you. I appreciate everything.
468
00:20:29,875 --> 00:20:31,515
The I a A does to support us
469
00:20:31,515 --> 00:20:33,115
universities chapters everything.
470
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So thanks, Desiree.
471
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In bonus content Jar Meia via joins Robert Perez
472
00:20:41,015 --> 00:20:44,155
to discuss the challenges of keeping content fresh
473
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and relevant for a global audience.
474
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Eric, thank you so much for, uh, joining me today.
475
00:20:50,655 --> 00:20:52,085
Thank you so much for inviting me.
476
00:20:52,515 --> 00:20:55,685
Tell me what is, is your role precisely in the, the, uh,
477
00:20:55,935 --> 00:20:57,805
curriculum department?
478
00:20:58,585 --> 00:21:01,445
My title is Curriculum Quality Specialist.
479
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So as you can imagine,
480
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the I a a being a global organization, we have several units
481
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to serve our members, one
482
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of them being member competency and learning.
483
00:21:13,985 --> 00:21:18,285
And as the names suggests, our role is to ensure
484
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that our members are staying competent
485
00:21:21,305 --> 00:21:25,125
and that we provide all the learning opportunities for them
486
00:21:25,225 --> 00:21:28,485
to continue their professional development careers.
487
00:21:29,105 --> 00:21:31,005
So part of my job at the,
488
00:21:31,185 --> 00:21:34,685
as a curriculum quality specialist is to ensure
489
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that we provide, we create
490
00:21:37,305 --> 00:21:41,285
and provide all of these, uh, resources
491
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or courses that internal auditors will need year over
492
00:21:46,525 --> 00:21:49,005
year to continue improving their skills
493
00:21:49,105 --> 00:21:52,525
and upskilling for their advancement in their careers.
494
00:21:53,565 --> 00:21:56,225
So before we get into the detail of just how
495
00:21:56,225 --> 00:21:58,385
that content is developed, can you share
496
00:21:58,385 --> 00:22:00,145
with me a little bit about how many hours
497
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of coursework is offered by the I i a on an annual basis?
498
00:22:04,045 --> 00:22:07,855
Currently we offer over 50,
499
00:22:08,355 --> 00:22:09,575
uh, ILT courses.
500
00:22:09,895 --> 00:22:12,575
ILT stands for instructor-LED training.
501
00:22:12,715 --> 00:22:15,735
So if you have ever taken an in-person course,
502
00:22:16,195 --> 00:22:19,495
we have over 50 courses of of that nature.
503
00:22:19,835 --> 00:22:23,855
And we also offer over 80 on demand courses,
504
00:22:24,025 --> 00:22:27,215
which are the ones, uh, that are self-paced
505
00:22:27,215 --> 00:22:28,895
that you take at your own time
506
00:22:29,675 --> 00:22:31,975
and if your wifi allows it, right?
507
00:22:31,975 --> 00:22:34,775
Mm-Hmm. You can on your own, on your own time
508
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and at your own pace.
509
00:22:36,395 --> 00:22:39,775
Uh, and we have topics from basic
510
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or fundamentals of internal auditing all the way
511
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to the current topics that we are discussing,
512
00:22:46,495 --> 00:22:49,735
which is cybersecurity ai as such,
513
00:22:50,125 --> 00:22:52,575
Because you and I both work at IA quarters,
514
00:22:52,775 --> 00:22:56,615
creating content, both benefit from having access to a lot
515
00:22:56,615 --> 00:22:59,855
of professional experience here, uh, in the building.
516
00:23:00,475 --> 00:23:03,655
We have CIAs and former CAEs to help, uh, guide
517
00:23:03,655 --> 00:23:06,295
and validate the content, but often you
518
00:23:06,295 --> 00:23:07,895
go beyond that as well. Correct?
519
00:23:08,045 --> 00:23:10,655
Correct. Um, the, the beauty of
520
00:23:11,235 --> 00:23:14,415
an organization like the I I A and the services
521
00:23:15,015 --> 00:23:18,215
provided for its members is that the IA has been around
522
00:23:18,275 --> 00:23:19,375
for over 80 years.
523
00:23:19,995 --> 00:23:24,615
So we benefit from a longstanding relationship
524
00:23:25,005 --> 00:23:28,975
with so many business partners that we have been able
525
00:23:28,995 --> 00:23:31,575
to help develop their own careers.
526
00:23:31,995 --> 00:23:35,135
So we are able to tap into those
527
00:23:35,815 --> 00:23:37,415
business partners in order
528
00:23:37,475 --> 00:23:39,375
to recruit subject matter experts.
529
00:23:39,995 --> 00:23:43,695
Uh, sometimes we do have in-house subject matter experts,
530
00:23:43,955 --> 00:23:45,255
uh, in our own organization,
531
00:23:45,955 --> 00:23:49,175
but it is, it is a beauty to have that opportunity
532
00:23:49,315 --> 00:23:51,455
to bring these professionals
533
00:23:51,485 --> 00:23:54,775
that are actually in the industry that have, uh,
534
00:23:54,885 --> 00:23:58,495
real experiences who can provide specific scenarios
535
00:23:58,495 --> 00:24:03,415
and specific experiences for our, um, internal auditors,
536
00:24:03,745 --> 00:24:05,015
especially the new ones.
537
00:24:05,885 --> 00:24:08,695
That includes some of our principal partners such
538
00:24:08,695 --> 00:24:11,015
as Deloitte and EY and pwc.
539
00:24:11,015 --> 00:24:12,015
Correct, correct.
540
00:24:12,275 --> 00:24:14,615
To to name some, to name a few. Right,
541
00:24:15,655 --> 00:24:16,655
Right. As
542
00:24:16,655 --> 00:24:18,615
you mentioned, the coursework is offered in different
543
00:24:18,615 --> 00:24:21,775
formats, whether it's instructor led or online or on demand.
544
00:24:22,395 --> 00:24:25,015
How challenging is it to develop content for,
545
00:24:25,315 --> 00:24:26,535
for both audiences?
546
00:24:27,365 --> 00:24:29,175
It's an interesting question, Robert.
547
00:24:29,475 --> 00:24:33,455
Uh, and fortunately for our team, most
548
00:24:33,455 --> 00:24:34,935
of us come from the classroom.
549
00:24:34,995 --> 00:24:36,535
Mm-Hmm. We are former teachers
550
00:24:36,595 --> 00:24:39,895
or we have specific training, uh, as teachers.
551
00:24:40,175 --> 00:24:43,455
I myself have a master's degree in instructional design,
552
00:24:43,955 --> 00:24:48,135
so it's part of my career to always make sure
553
00:24:48,165 --> 00:24:51,495
that I create a learning environment for anyone.
554
00:24:52,115 --> 00:24:55,015
Now, am I an internal auditor? No.
555
00:24:55,435 --> 00:24:59,815
But because I am in the learning industry, I team up
556
00:24:59,845 --> 00:25:01,495
with a subject matter expert,
557
00:25:02,195 --> 00:25:06,255
and we make sure that the content that is relevant,
558
00:25:06,725 --> 00:25:10,455
that is, uh, objective driven, is employed
559
00:25:10,555 --> 00:25:13,615
and is delivered in a way that is pertinent
560
00:25:13,835 --> 00:25:15,575
for all our members.
561
00:25:15,995 --> 00:25:19,375
And that includes different modes. Mm-Hmm.
562
00:25:19,505 --> 00:25:22,575
Which it could include in person or on demand.
563
00:25:23,585 --> 00:25:26,045
We serve a global community. Yes.
564
00:25:26,345 --> 00:25:27,525
So we have to make sure
565
00:25:27,675 --> 00:25:32,125
that all our learning materials serve that purpose of
566
00:25:32,885 --> 00:25:36,045
speaking basically to everyone, uh, in,
567
00:25:36,045 --> 00:25:37,645
in a global, in a global level.
568
00:25:38,305 --> 00:25:40,365
So it's, it's challenging for sure.
569
00:25:41,075 --> 00:25:43,095
And you and I have talked a little bit about this already,
570
00:25:43,235 --> 00:25:46,055
in, in the sense that you wanna make sure that they've got
571
00:25:46,055 --> 00:25:48,015
that proper learning environment when they
572
00:25:48,015 --> 00:25:49,175
do finally get the materials.
573
00:25:49,175 --> 00:25:51,135
And that, that's something that goes into your consideration
574
00:25:51,135 --> 00:25:53,855
as well in terms of making sure that folks
575
00:25:53,875 --> 00:25:56,975
who sometimes aren't professional educators have the
576
00:25:57,095 --> 00:25:59,615
structure, have the information they need to execute,
577
00:25:59,715 --> 00:26:00,775
uh, those learnings.
578
00:26:01,305 --> 00:26:03,855
Right. And we have fantastic facilitators,
579
00:26:04,435 --> 00:26:06,015
and again, like I stressed
580
00:26:06,015 --> 00:26:09,755
before, they, they come with this beauty
581
00:26:09,775 --> 00:26:13,555
of experience from, from years, um, working in the industry.
582
00:26:13,975 --> 00:26:15,675
And that is so valuable.
583
00:26:16,055 --> 00:26:19,635
And all we provide is the guidelines for them to make sure
584
00:26:19,635 --> 00:26:23,355
that the participants, uh, receive all the information
585
00:26:23,535 --> 00:26:26,835
and that they are set up for success, which is our mission.
586
00:26:27,335 --> 00:26:29,395
And to be sure that also includes, you know, making sure
587
00:26:29,395 --> 00:26:33,915
that, uh, we meet all the nasba qualifications to, to make,
588
00:26:33,975 --> 00:26:37,435
uh, those learnings NASPA qualified or certified.
589
00:26:38,995 --> 00:26:40,155
Absolutely. Absolutely.
590
00:26:40,295 --> 00:26:42,555
All our courses are NASPA compliant.
591
00:26:43,305 --> 00:26:45,565
And, uh, to, to that point, one
592
00:26:45,565 --> 00:26:47,845
of the most interesting aspects of, uh,
593
00:26:48,155 --> 00:26:51,245
what we do at the product development unit
594
00:26:51,905 --> 00:26:54,845
is we are always keeping our ears close
595
00:26:54,845 --> 00:26:57,885
to the ground when it comes to what members are saying,
596
00:26:57,955 --> 00:26:59,605
what members are needing.
597
00:27:00,105 --> 00:27:03,765
And, uh, it is important that this message comes across
598
00:27:03,765 --> 00:27:06,365
because we are actually paying attention
599
00:27:06,545 --> 00:27:08,725
and making the adjustments that are necessary
600
00:27:09,145 --> 00:27:12,485
so it serves better to our facilitators and our members
601
00:27:12,555 --> 00:27:14,605
because we are here for our members.
602
00:27:15,065 --> 00:27:17,485
And what kind of feedback do you get maybe in terms of
603
00:27:17,485 --> 00:27:19,405
that or, or other types
604
00:27:19,465 --> 00:27:21,565
of feedback that we get on our courses? Typically?
605
00:27:22,035 --> 00:27:26,125
Fortunately, we have always had a good, uh, a good amount
606
00:27:26,125 --> 00:27:29,925
of good feedback when it comes, uh, to our participants,
607
00:27:30,195 --> 00:27:32,005
including our facilitators.
608
00:27:32,705 --> 00:27:35,605
We, we are very proud of the work that we put in
609
00:27:35,605 --> 00:27:38,245
to our courseware, especially
610
00:27:38,245 --> 00:27:40,365
because we are receiving the information
611
00:27:40,435 --> 00:27:43,605
that it is serving their purposes, especially
612
00:27:43,745 --> 00:27:46,485
as they continue growing in their own industries
613
00:27:46,485 --> 00:27:47,565
and their own companies.
614
00:27:48,025 --> 00:27:51,125
Uh, and, and we are part of their success.
615
00:27:52,225 --> 00:27:53,985
Excellent. So one, one final question.
616
00:27:53,985 --> 00:27:55,985
Derek, tell me, what's the best part of your job?
617
00:27:56,715 --> 00:27:57,895
The best part of my job?
618
00:27:58,085 --> 00:27:59,695
Well, as a, as a former teacher,
619
00:27:59,995 --> 00:28:01,815
you are always a teacher, right?
620
00:28:02,115 --> 00:28:05,375
And, um, one of the things that excites me the most,
621
00:28:05,485 --> 00:28:08,775
it's always the opportunity of learning something new.
622
00:28:09,395 --> 00:28:14,385
And being in this role allows me to be among the so,
623
00:28:14,405 --> 00:28:17,825
so many professionals in the internal audit industry
624
00:28:18,255 --> 00:28:19,465
that I can learn from.
625
00:28:19,965 --> 00:28:23,385
And that allows me to learn what their experience is,
626
00:28:23,715 --> 00:28:25,665
especially since internal auditors,
627
00:28:25,975 --> 00:28:28,585
they are everywhere in every industry
628
00:28:28,585 --> 00:28:29,825
that we can imagine, right?
629
00:28:30,095 --> 00:28:33,705
It's not only banking, it's not only, uh, government.
630
00:28:34,055 --> 00:28:38,785
There's so many applications of internal audit today, and,
631
00:28:38,925 --> 00:28:41,425
and we get to learn from all of that, right?
632
00:28:41,565 --> 00:28:43,305
And I feel like that learning
633
00:28:43,805 --> 00:28:45,945
and that passion for learning is
634
00:28:45,945 --> 00:28:48,105
what really drives our engines
635
00:28:48,345 --> 00:28:49,625
whenever we are developing new courses
636
00:28:50,165 --> 00:28:51,825
and updating our courses.
637
00:28:52,525 --> 00:28:55,265
So I hope that that passion
638
00:28:56,035 --> 00:28:58,105
translates into all the materials
639
00:28:58,325 --> 00:28:59,985
and everything that we put forward
640
00:29:00,645 --> 00:29:02,145
for the benefit of our members.
641
00:29:03,185 --> 00:29:05,305
Excellent. Again, Eric, thank you so much
642
00:29:05,305 --> 00:29:06,505
for joining me today and Speaker,
643
00:29:07,395 --> 00:29:08,395
Thank you.
644
00:29:09,285 --> 00:29:12,585
If you liked this podcast, please subscribe and rate us.
645
00:29:12,885 --> 00:29:15,705
You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
646
00:29:16,045 --> 00:29:18,665
You can also catch other episodes on YouTube
647
00:29:18,965 --> 00:29:21,305
or@theiia.org.
648
00:29:21,725 --> 00:29:25,345
That's THE iia.org.