WEBVTT
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I'm in Bend, Oregon, which is about a couple hours from Corvallis.
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Okay.
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So Jessica DuPont is the interim vice provost of Oregon State University's Division of eCampus.
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She's also the mother of two, and is, I believe, an empty nester these days.
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So transitioning into that.
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So I'm glad you're here.
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Thanks for joining us today.
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Thanks for inviting me.
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I'm really excited to be part of this podcast.
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So now some of you may be wondering now how did a country girl from Mississippi and uh somebody from Oregon uh connect?
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But we have been both very involved in our professional association up to.
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We're both now serving on the board of directors, but uh we've kind of known each other for uh several years in in passing at first and then uh now working together a little bit more.
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I don't know, recently I think I saw you post something about your mother, and then we talked at a conference really just briefly about the podcast, and then here we are.
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So one thing I I'm I'm really bad about forgetting, we will get all the way or almost all the way through the podcast and never mention the mother's name because we'll just be talking about my mom, my mother.
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So tell us your mother's name to start with, Jessica.
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Yeah, my my mom's name was Laura Lynn Gloss.
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And and Gloss is Polish.
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I maybe we'll tell talk a little bit about that, but um Laura, Laura was her name.
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Laura Lynn Gloss.
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Okay, good.
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Now she uh was a little closer to Mississippi, right?
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She grew up in uh it was from St.
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Louis, Missouri.
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So tell us a little bit about uh her her years growing up, and I think from a big fairly large family.
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That's right.
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Actually, my mom was was born in Chicago, uh uh Illinois, and she was the the first of six kids.
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Eddie and Dorothy started a family right after World War II ended.
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Her dad was was a cook in the Navy.
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So she grew up in a predominantly Polish neighborhood in Chicago, and actually they met in St.
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Louis, though, so maybe that was a St.
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Louis connection, and and that's that's where I actually spent a lot of my years with my family.
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Um, but my mom really grew up and her family moved when she was really young.
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They moved to a rural part of Wisconsin, a Platsky, Wisconsin, outside of the Green Bay area.
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On her, I believe, maternal side, that there was family already there, and there were there was farms.
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It was a big Polish area, and so that's where she spent her formative years in um North Wisconsin.
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And uh, and yes, it'd be a part of a big family, six kids.
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She was the oldest, uh, two girls were the oldest, and then four boys, and they were a very tight-knit family and um yeah, in a big Polish community.
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So being the the oldest of six, did she kind of have a lot of those mothering tendencies?
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Or do you think that's a great question?
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I I I I think so, but I think the tendency she had was more around being bossy, um, is what I hear from leadership.
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She was a leader, right?
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From her siblings, you know, that she was loud and she was bossy.
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I don't know how much she mothered when she was, you know, I'm sure she's expected to help out with watching her siblings, but um she was she was kind of in charge, uh um, you know, her personality type at a pretty young age.
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And um, and so you know, I I do think she eventually she had mothering tendency.
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She eventually went to college uh and and went on to study elementary education, and that was a lot of her career path.
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So um that that may have stemmed from being part of a big family now that you're saying that, and just having all those little kids there, I'm sure it had an impact.
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They were all really close in age too, so there was a lot of them, a little gaggle.
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Yeah.
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Were they close?
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They were uh very, very close family, especially my mom and her sister, who are just um like a year and a half apart, her sister Barbara.
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Um, really her best friend in life.
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Um, a really sweet relationship there.
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Maybe not in the early years, you know.
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I heard they were pretty awful to each other, which is surprising.
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Pretty surprising.
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I think it sounds like it was mainly my mom who was the mean one, you know, according to my aunt.
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But but I think, you know, watching their relationship and how sweet it was, it was one of the reasons I was so excited to have two girls of my own, um, because I I just loved seeing that um that sisterhood.
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So definitely close to her sister um and her four brothers.
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My mom's youngest brother, um Steve, has some intellectual disabilities.
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And I think that was something that actually um really tightened the family.
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They really took care of him, leaned in, and that was a reason for them to to coalesce, you know, around him and caring for him.
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And so um they were a tight family, yeah.
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Oh yeah.
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Was she was she close to her mother?
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Was she like her mother?
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You know, I don't know that she was like her mother.
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She definitely had a lot of her tendencies, um, but she definitely was close to her, um, especially as she got older.
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I think my grandmother was really busy um raising kids and having, you know, she had a lot to do.
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She had a lot going on.
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I mean, I don't know how much they had a lot of one-on-one time.
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I do know that um, you know, my grandmother was very influential with her overall positivity.
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She's someone who I don't think I ever heard my grandmother say a mean word about anybody.
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Um, there was just sort of an expectation set in the family.
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We don't talk mean about people, we don't say things.
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I mean, there's just a lot of um kind of kindness in in in the family dynamics that I could see.
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Um and so I think as she got older, she got a lot closer.
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But you know, she my grandmother lived in Wisconsin and eventually my mom moved away and lived in St.
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Louis and raised her own family.
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And um, and so they were as close as you can be back in those days with telephone and mail and things like that.
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Yeah.
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So your your grandmother wasn't bossy.
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No, she wasn't.
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She was she was quieter, you know, she was part of that that silent or the great generation, I guess it was.
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Um it was my grandfather who was, I think, the the louder, bossier one.
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My mom inherited a lot of his tendencies, I would say.
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Uh, and my grandmother was a little um kind of softer, quieter.
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And so my mom was definitely um in that way different from my grandmother.
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But yeah.
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So how did she wind up in St.
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Louis?
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Yeah, um, yeah, to tell this story, I'm gonna have to just like go back a little bit and I'll start with this because this is this is kind of a wild story, Susan.
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So it's something like to this day, I almost can't believe so.
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As part of that big family, my mom, I should mention, was part of a very Catholic family, Catholic, Polish American.
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She went through um Catholic school for her, you know, K through 12.
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She ended up going to a Catholic uh small college, St.
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Norbert's in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
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My mom went there for one year and then she dropped out and she joined the nunnery.
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You know, something my mom actually didn't talk a lot about.
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Uh, I I've heard things over, heard things over time and maybe heard it more from her family.
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Her family, who, especially her sister, was devastated.
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She she left, uh kind of left everyone and and went into the nunnery.
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And I think they thought that maybe that wasn't a path, that wasn't her path, you know, but she had to figure that out for herself.
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And what I heard and how she framed it was she thought life was more serious or meaningful than what she was experiencing in college, and she decided to kind of drop out.
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And I think it was also kind of popular in that time.
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This would have been in 1964.
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That was something that was, I don't want to say trending, but that there were more girls going into this.
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Anyway, she dropped out, she then met my dad, you know, as part of that, and then went back to college.
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So she she did last for a year, and they eventually got married and had had us young.
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They were young parents.
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My mom was 23 when she when she had me, and then my brother was 15 months later, my brother Jason.
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Before we landed in St.
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Louis, we spent four years in Heidelberg, Germany, because my dad was in the military.
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And so at a young age, that was a big deal back then.
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They up and took their small family, young family, and then came back and we settled in St.
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Louis, mainly for my dad's career.
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But my mom eventually became a teacher and had a very successful career in K-12 as both a teacher and a principal.
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Yeah, okay.
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So you got to back up a second.
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So your mom went to a nunnery and met your dad.
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You're gonna have to explain that to me.
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I know.
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You don't usually think of, hey, I've I'm gonna go to a nunnery so I can meet a guy.
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Right.
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Well, she she met my dad after she quit the nunnery.
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So I I should have I should have maybe explained that detail.
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She she she lasted for a year and then I think on her own realized um it was it wasn't her path and it wasn't right for her.
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And as a result, and this is maybe had the opposite effect because my my family and her siblings all stayed very Catholic and in turn have had you know very close connection to the Catholic Church.
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And my mom kind of pulled away from the Catholic Church.
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And I would say, you know, in that process, and then when she eventually went back to college and she finished, you know, she she only took that year off somewhere in that that coming back to college is when she met my dad, who was also at St.
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Norbert, and uh and that's how they they got together.
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So she had to find herself that that's at college sometime during that time.
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My college roommate, my college roommate, her mother had been a nun.
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And I mean, she was she was an actual nun, uh, which I always thought was interesting.
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This is my mom, she was a nun, which just kind of sounds funny.
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Uh but her name was Jean Marie, so a good Catholic name.
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Uh yeah.
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Okay, so then they met there, and then uh they're in St.
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Louis.
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And I think you said she was 23 when she had you.
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Yeah, she was a young mom, uh, 23, married young, had me uh young, had my brother right after, and then um, and that was it.
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They were done, uh, just the two of us.
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And when she was in St.
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Louis is when she really um she was a teacher actually in Germany, and she was a teacher on the base, on the military base where we where we lived for four years.
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And actually, Susan, this is a fun fact, she was my teacher for a year.
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She was my teacher for um for first grade in Germany.
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You know, you think back, yes, in Germany on the base.
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Uh, we were at uh um uh an American school on the base, so we didn't go to the to the German school, and my mom was one of the American teachers, and it was a really, really cool experience.
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I mean, it was not a small classroom.
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Um, and she was my teacher, she was my brother's teacher for a year.
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Uh, so she's both my mom and my and my teacher, like formally.
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So that was kind of kind of a fun, fun fact.
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I forgot to forgot to mention that earlier.
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Did she let you call her mom in class or do you have to call her like all the other kids?
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No, I think everyone, it this was the 70s, and this was, you know, this was she was definitely my mom and dad were kind of hippies, even though they were my dad was in the military, if that makes sense.
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He did have to cut his hair, but they were really into um, she was very liberal, and I think the kids called her Laura.
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I think my brother and I called her Laura as a teacher, which was kind of funny.
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So I'm sure it went back and forth between Laura and mom, but there was no Miss DuPont, you know, that was her um her married name, Morelyn DuPont.
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Uh and and so yeah, that was that was what we called her, which was which was funny.
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She must have she must have played those cards pretty well though, because it never felt weird, you know, that she was both my teacher and my mom.
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So I uh my sixth grade teacher, um, her daughter was in her class too, but she made her when they were in school.
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She had to call her Mrs.
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Wilkerson.
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So it's interesting.
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Did she like living in Germany?
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She did, yeah.
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From what from what I know, I think my parents um were pretty adventurous uh looking back on it.
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I think now, especially knowing my own kids are getting close to that age, that they lived in another country, you know, back then.
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Um they traveled a lot.
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We ended up meeting um family, really distant family on my dad's side who was Belgian and connected with them.
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Um, it was a real I think it was one of those really life expanding um and eye-opening experiences, both for my parents and for my brother and me, um, which gave us a bigger worldview.
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And it was, you know, really different to live in a foreign country.
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And um I I'm also thinking it would probably have been really hard for her.
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And those are that's the part of my mom I don't really know.
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Like, how did she juggle all that distance and being away from her own family?
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Um, we used to make, we used to make tapes, like the old tape cassettes.
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Yeah, we would we would exchange those.
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And I and I recently, you know, I have some of those tapes, but tapes that we would we would make for my grandparents, we'd send them to Wisconsin, and then they would send us news this way.
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So it was kind of like, you know, what what we sort of have today, it wasn't wasn't the letters, it was actually tape cassettes that we'd be mailing back and forth, which was kind of kind of cool.
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So that is fun because then you could hear the hear the voice, and that's important to hear be able to hear the voice because sometimes uh uh for her mother, you could hear in the voice if they're doing okay, which you can't sometimes get in writing.
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That's right.
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Yeah.
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So how did that you said that they were kind of hippies and somewhat liberal, how did that uh impact how she mothered you and your brother?
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What kind of mother was she?
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Um yeah, and my mom was um, first of all, bigger than life, like just one of those those moms who um you know is is has no problem meeting other friends, connecting with other moms.
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Like my friends always love my mom.
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So she was kind of a big life force and and just uh really she related well to everybody.
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And I I actually um want to credit that part of her upbringing, I think, to working in my grandfather's store.
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Um, he had a store uh outside of Pulaski.
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He was a butcher, he had his own IGA store.
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All the kids worked in the store.
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They had some really hands-on opportunities for customer service that you know kids today don't get.
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And she she knew how to talk to anybody and everybody.
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And uh, and I think that was something she learned uh growing up and working in my in my grandpa's store.
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Um, but you asked what kind of a mother was she?
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I mean, this was the 70s and and back in St.
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Louis, you know, I remember growing up to what is it, um, free-to-be, you and me, you know, some of these uh, some of these records, and um um, you know, so definitely a more, I guess, liberal upbringing would be one way to say it.
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Um, what did that mean?
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It still meant there were rules, of course.
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I mean, it's not like we could just do whatever we wanted.
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Um, but she was she was a fun mom.
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I mean, my mom loved to, one of her passions was reading.
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She loved reading to my brother and I.
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She read to us probably up until third, fourth grade, where we'd sit around and she would read to us.
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That was um, you know, part of her schooling.
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Uh, she had a specialty in reading.
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She um, so so that was just like kind of something I'm remembering.
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Um what else can I say?
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I mean, she was really, she had a lot of energy, my mom.
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There was, I don't remember.
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I was kind of thinking back like when she in my you know younger years, I never remember my mom sitting down and like on the couch taking it easy.
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She's kind of the antithesis of a couch potato, you know, and and so, but all that energy sometimes, like, you know, she she could she probably needed to relax a little bit.
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I don't I I I don't remember her sleeping or napping, but she wasn't a napper.
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She would say that.
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I don't nap.
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I'm like so I I didn't inherit that from her.
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I do love a good nap.
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You know, did she expect that of y'all you as well?
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Did she expect you to go and yeah, the high energy and to be involved in things?
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And did she kind of raise you to do that?
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I mean, I think that was just her MO.
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:05.599
I, you know, one one of her favorite sayings, you know, was it's time to kick it into high gear.
00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:09.920
And and I say that to my girl, you know, I've said that to my girls, like, what does that even mean?
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:11.519
Like, it's time to kick it into high gear.
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:12.880
Like, you like, let's get going.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:14.400
Like you clean up your room, you know.
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:16.559
She was she was a let's go kind of person.
00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:21.279
She was someone who would be running errands and like, oh, we can make it over to that store before they're close.
00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:27.039
I mean, she was constantly, you know, maximizing and and that felt just normal to me.
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:28.319
It didn't feel stressful.
00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:33.519
I I think now seeing how other people live, or even what I asked my own kids to do.
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:35.200
I'm like, let's go on a shopping spree.
00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:42.240
And you know, I remembering what my mom would do, we would just shop till we drop literally, you know, and um, and not everyone has that kind of energy.
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.240
So she she had a lot of energy.
00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:44.559
Yeah.
00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.599
Well, and and you said she was an elementary school teacher.
00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:58.079
She was a fourth grade teacher for um a good part of her career, and then she went into um, she was a principal and she became a principal and a really beloved principal in um the St.
00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:05.039
Louis School District for um probably split half in half, half teaching, half principal, yeah, for about 30 years.
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:07.599
So she needed to be high energy in that role.
00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:08.480
I think so.
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:09.599
You have to, right?
00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:11.279
With little kids, right?
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:12.480
Yeah.
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:24.319
I noticed you put posted on LinkedIn something about her, and you said that she was kind of a a model for you in your career, and and maybe as a mom too.
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:26.240
Absolutely.
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:41.440
I think um, you know, I saw my mom go back to school twice um when I was growing up, and what that meant for us as kids was dad was cooking those nights, or we were on our own cooking.
00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:52.480
Um, she went back and got a master's um in education when I was um, you know, in elementary school, and then she went back and got another degree to become a principal.
00:18:52.640 --> 00:19:03.119
So we saw I saw her firsthand juggle working, parenting, and school, which is, you know, kind of ironic is when I think about the field that you and I are in.
00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:12.160
I mean, we are working with adult learners and um in higher continued education where they're going back to school to advance in their career, switch careers.
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:19.119
So I saw that firsthand, which was um definitely modeled for me that you can juggle all that.
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:22.480
I it she made it look easy, but it it's not easy.
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:28.400
I think for those of us who do that juggling, it it's a lot of work and you can get pretty worn down.
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:34.720
But she she did set a really strong example for me that you can have a career if you want to.
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:36.640
You can do this, you can be a mom.
00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:38.640
And she was also a very present mom.
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:43.039
It's not like she was off doing her own thing and we felt like we were ignored.
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:44.319
But I think that was important.
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:54.319
I don't think that's common all the time to see that, and especially as you're being raised, to have your parents then go back to school and see how they are doing that.
00:19:54.640 --> 00:20:10.160
One of our our guests was talking about, and I think even some of it thinking about this podcast, there were some decisions that she realized she made in her life that she's just now kind of figuring, you know, that that was probably influenced by my mom.
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:16.640
Was was your career choice to go into higher ed and do some of the things that we do?
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:20.640
Did that come out of that, or is it just coincidental?
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:24.319
I I think I think it definitely had a play in that.
00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:26.480
I I I did teach for a while.
00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:28.319
I I was a teacher for just a little bit.
00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:30.640
I was in the Peace Corps and I I taught English.
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.839
Um, I came back to the States and thought I might want to go into teaching.
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:40.559
So that right there is a you know a reflection of um, you know, I I come from a family of teachers.
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:44.160
Um, so education is highly valued in our families.
00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:55.119
It was something that my grandparents, even though they didn't go to college and my grandfather only went through eighth grade education, they highly valued all their kids who were college educated who could.
00:20:55.359 --> 00:21:11.839
And um, so I think now I'm like, you know, I'm I'm in higher education, and I do think when you grow up with an educator as a family member, and you know, my dad also um, you know, he he wasn't he taught for a little bit in college, but he was uh ended up being a healthcare administrator.
00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:13.039
You are impacted.
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:19.279
I mean, let me just say this like for better or worse, because sometimes, you know, it it could be a little bit of a drag.
00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:22.160
I mean, everything was like an educational opportunity.
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:26.079
Like we would be driving and it was every roadside stop.
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:28.480
Like, well, what what does that plaque say?
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:37.759
I mean, our family, my mom are we're big on tours, like, well, let's go tour that, you know, and we're not even talking about tours that are like common tourist-y things.
00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:41.519
We're like, well, maybe that new bakery will do a tour for us.
00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:52.000
Or, I mean, there was just like constant curiosity and a love of learning and sharing that that absolutely impacted me, impacted my brother.
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:58.559
Feel a passion towards education and how it can unlock a lot of potential upward social mobility for others.
00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:00.960
I saw that my own family, my My parents were young.
00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:02.000
We didn't have a lot of money.
00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:03.920
We lived in a very modest house.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.680
We were on food stamps when we first moved back to the States or Germany.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.240
You know, my parents were poverty level at that time.
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.000
My mom was a substitute teacher.
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.079
My dad was going to grad school.
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:19.119
I I saw what education and what you know how that how that changed our family.
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:26.240
And so I I know that had an impact on ultimately I I picked, which was in higher education and as an administrator.
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:26.880
Yeah.
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:28.559
So you mentioned the Peace Corps.
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:31.359
So you were in Romania for a couple of years.
00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:31.759
I was.
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:32.400
Yeah.
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:32.960
Yeah.
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:36.400
So how did how did she feel about that?
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:46.640
When when I told my mother I was gonna be going to Africa and in India and all those places, you know, she wasn't very happy about it because most of her life was in Mississippi.
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:49.279
What did your mom think about you being in the Peace Corps?
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:53.759
My mom was pretty excited about me going to the Peace Corps.
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.400
I I will say that she was very worried in the beginning.
00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:00.640
When I went to the Peace Corps, it was 1992, 1992 to 94.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:10.319
One of my majors in college was French, and there was a really strong possibility I was going to go to French-speaking Africa, which I was actually thought that would have been really cool.
00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:11.599
I could have used my language.
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:12.880
That sounded interesting to me.
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.440
And at the time, AIDS epidemic was really strong.
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:19.839
And my my mom in particular was really worried, did not want me to go to Africa.
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:24.559
Um, even though she I consider her very worldly, I think she really was worried about that.
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:29.839
And in the end, when I got the assignment for Romania and it was an education, I was going to be a teacher there.
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:31.039
She was ecstatic.
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:33.200
One thing I didn't know, this is interesting.
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:35.920
I didn't know my mom wanted to go into the Peace Corps.
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:40.160
She only told me after I went through the whole process, because it's a long process.
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:56.319
It took a year to go through everything, all the tests and you know, the assignments that she said she wanted though, that she felt a special calling when JFK, you know, started the Peace Corps, and that was something that she wanted to do, but you know, she she got married young and and had my brother and I.
00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:00.799
And I think that changed maybe something she would have done if she didn't choose that.
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:01.599
So yeah.
00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:06.160
I remember I looked at the I looked at the Peace Corps requirements one time and and it's all in.
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:10.640
You as I recall, you couldn't have debt and different things.
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:15.920
So uh having a family certainly would be a barrier to that.
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:18.799
And so she kind of lived vicariously through you and then, I guess.
00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:19.519
I think so.
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:22.079
We spent a lot of money on telephone.
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:30.400
We kind of laugh and say that um ATT had a whole like wall for like the DuPont family for all the phone calls.
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.359
This was pre-internet, pre-cell phones.
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:36.240
And yeah, my mom, um, we would have a weekly call.
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:40.559
Um, it was hard, you know, being that far away from her and my family.
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:42.559
Uh, I was there for two years.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:44.799
My my parents did come and visit me.
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:51.279
When I was in the Peace Corps, um, I I learned that my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer.
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.480
That was really, a really hard thing.
00:24:54.640 --> 00:25:05.359
The Peace Corps was, first of all, a pretty amazing experience, but also very sobering, a lot of sobering parts of the Peace Corps being on your own, having to really dig deep and lean on yourself.
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:11.039
And when I learned about my mom having breast cancer, I I almost quit.
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:13.599
And I felt like I had to go back.
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:15.599
I wanted to be there for her.
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:17.759
She did not want me to quit.
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:25.599
And she was very firm about, you know, I I'm fine, I'm being taken care of, I'm getting good treatment.
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:29.599
That was that was tough for me with her being sick.
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:39.839
You know, she went through all of her treatments and then she and my dad came to visit, and that was pretty incredible that she had done that and she really wanted to see.
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:50.319
So that was that was maybe something in that whole Peace Corps experience, not only having it be tough being far away, but then dealing with the parent who was sick and feeling kind of helpless about it.
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:52.319
I I struggled with that, yeah.
00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:58.240
And she was like in her 40s then and r responded well to treatment.
00:25:58.559 --> 00:25:58.960
She did.
00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:00.880
They caught it, you know, they caught it early.
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:05.119
She was in her mid to late 40s when she got her diagnosis.
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:06.880
She had a mastectomy.
00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:11.680
She, I think because she was, you know, treated pretty aggressively even back then.
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:16.720
Her care, it's one thing she's she talked about a lot was her care team being in St.
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:18.559
Louis, a major medical hub.
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:30.640
She felt like, you know, I really credit the care she got early on and just how much she wanted to stay well, as uh, you know, having having that be something that helped her live longer.
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:34.559
So my mom was a breast cancer survivor for 25 years.
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:37.920
Ultimately, that that is how she she passed.
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:44.079
It came back, but she had 25 really great years and lived a very full life.
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:55.519
And I think that also, you know, it changed our relationship because when you know your parent is is sick and then they're better, there's always that fear that it's gonna come back.
00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:59.839
And you know, you kind of are always dreading like a phone call or something.
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:12.799
But she, for the most part, was really lucky, um, got good treatment, and was, I think, an inspiration to a lot of other survivors with just how to live and be fully present and seize the day.
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:21.440
You know, that was something she she did before breast cancer, but I think she lived even more intentionally and more in the present moment afterwards.
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:24.720
So she kicked it into overdrive for 25 years, huh?
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:25.440
She did.
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:27.200
Kicked it into high gear, high gear.
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:28.079
That's what I mean.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:30.319
She she she kicked it into high gear.
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:33.839
She she uh she lived a good life, you know.
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:38.160
She was always up for something fun, and yeah, she didn't let that define her.
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:42.079
She didn't actually talk about it a lot, like after she kind of kicked it.
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:51.920
Like, you know, she wasn't someone who wore pink in breast cancer, whereas moms, she didn't really, she didn't really talk about it a lot, but uh, you know, it was there, it was there all the time, you know.
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:53.440
It was in her mind, I'm sure.
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:54.960
What kind of grandmother was she?
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:59.200
Because that that tends to is she the same grandmother?
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:02.720
I mean, most of the times gr grandmothers are just different than mothers.
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:04.720
She's probably more fun as a grandmother.
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:08.799
My my kids called her everyone, you know, she's got she had five grandkids.
00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.839
They called her grandma do, uh, for DuPont.
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:15.759
You know, grandma do, she she was went by the short name of Do, you know, DuPont.
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.680
She didn't want to be grandma or, you know, one of those, like, she didn't want to sound old.
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:21.839
She was an awesome grandmother.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:30.640
I think our relationship, you know, you don't really know what kind of well, because of her experience being a teacher, she was just a natural of kids.
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:34.000
So not all grandparents are naturals with kids at all stages.
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.599
And so that was just really lucky that she's someone who loved that.
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:40.240
She didn't think she was gonna be a grandmother season.
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:43.200
So I I got married and started my family pretty late.
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:44.720
And so did my brother.
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:49.279
And so I think at some point, you know, she was like, I don't think it's gonna happen for me.
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:57.680
So when it did, I mean, boy, my my oldest daughter, uh, my oldest, who is was her oldest uh grandkid, she was spoiled rotten.
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:00.400
And those two, I mean, talk about the connection.
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:04.640
I see so much of my mom in my daughter, my oldest, especially.
00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:10.799
Even today, I am with my oldest, her name is Charlie, short for Charlotte.
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:12.960
And I feel like I'm with my mom sometimes.
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:16.559
It's it's almost uncanny how those traits can be passed down.
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:22.000
She has a lot of my my mom's tendencies, but also just like her kind of overall spirit.
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:26.799
And I think a lot of that was just like how much my mom spent time with her, you know, as a kid.
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:29.440
So it was she was an awesome grandma.
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:29.920
Yeah.
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:32.559
Did you change the two of your relationship?
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:38.400
I mean, I think I just had a newfound appreciation because my husband and I were in Oregon.
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:39.759
We had moved out to Oregon.
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:40.799
She was still in St.
00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:48.160
Louis, and I just realized how much it matters when family is close to you when you're raising your own kids.
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:51.119
And I had this newfound appreciation.
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:57.519
I think a part of my upbringing and um encouragement, like go live your life, go do things.
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:01.119
And, you know, people who stay in their hometowns and never move.
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:18.559
There was not that that was frowned upon, but I actually changed my perspective about how I value family and proximity to family when my kids were born and how I saw and and how lucky to be near your grandkids, like to be in the proximity where you can drive.
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:23.359
I I would follow my kids and my girls when they have their own kids anywhere.
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:25.599
I don't want to be far away, you know.
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:39.359
And I think I would say I valued her more and my dad for really being involved and wanting to be a part of of my kids' lives and and showing up and spending time and giving us breaks, you know.
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:45.599
You can only like pass off a a kid who's who's got like measles or lice or something to your own family.
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:46.720
You can't do that.
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:49.039
That's a grandmother's job, right?
00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:51.680
Grandmother's job, you know.
00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:53.839
So yeah, she she was up for that.
00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:54.160
Yeah.
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:55.039
That's right.
00:30:55.200 --> 00:31:01.759
Well, a lot of times we talk about the relationship of mothers and daughters is complicated for a lot of reasons.
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:05.839
Uh, you said that y'all were both non-confrontational.
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:06.400
Yeah.
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:08.480
You both kind of like harmony.
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:17.759
There wasn't a lot of confrontation, but you you did tell me about Snoodles, that apparently there's a little bit of friction around.
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:20.000
Tell me about that.
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:31.039
So yeah, you know, as much as I can just talk to you all day long about all the things I love to be long, there's definitely a few things that we were at odds against.
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:35.839
And a lot of this is gonna boil down to her dog smoodles.
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:42.640
And and I told you earlier that, you know, my parents, my mom thought, well, maybe we're not gonna have grandkids.
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:51.920
And so the the funny thing is, Susan, is that I grew up with no dogs and my mom was really allergic to all pets, and so the pets were just off-limit.
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:53.200
We didn't even think about that.
00:31:53.359 --> 00:32:02.079
And I kind of realize now having pets and you know what we missed out on, but she ended up getting a dog, I think, in in lieu of a grandkid.
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:12.079
And this this is a little Westy, a little West Highland terrier, but actually not really all that lovable or adorable to anyone other than my mother.
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:19.599
The two of them were really connected, and she she babied this dog in ways that I thought was odd and unusual.
00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:23.039
And you know, I was like, okay, great, mom's getting a dog.
00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:25.519
My brother and I actually the whole family felt this way.
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:36.559
But what but I'll just say she always took Snoodle side, even over like her own kids or get this, her own grandkids.
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:37.200
Oh, wow.
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:50.720
Story I'll share, and you know, I might be giving you a hint about this is the one time she was visiting and staying with us, and I think my my youngest was about two or three years old, have a piece of food in her hand, you know, it was a cracker or something.
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:52.400
The dog traveled with her too.
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:57.839
The dog traveled like on Southwest, all the airlines that took dogs, the dog would come with her.
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:02.160
So, so just you know, any any visit, like the dog that this is, you know, the dog would come.
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:04.880
So it was my mom and the dog, or my dad too.
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:15.119
And Snoodles um jumped out, you know, and grabbed this, grabbed this food, but but actually bit my my daughter, who started crying.
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:28.400
And we were like, oh my gosh, you know, she was like a little nipped, nipped her, it was bleeding a little bit, like she bit her, like, oh my gosh, you know, this is this is Snoodles, what what you know, and so we were like, like, what the heck?
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:33.680
And she, you know, uh unbelievably came to Snoodles defense.
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:37.440
It was, well, honey, she had a cracker in her hand.
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:50.079
Of course, Snoodles was gonna, you know, and I was like, You're defending Snoodles, you know, and so it was just this whole, you know, that was just like one example of just where Snoodles got away with everything.
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:53.119
And, you know, they spent a lot of money on Snoodles.
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:56.559
And my my husband too had a hard time with Snoodles.
00:33:56.880 --> 00:34:01.440
So it was just definitely a little bit of uh there's some friction uh with Snoodles.
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:05.440
That was probably a little, a little bit of what got into some of our relationship.
00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:08.000
So navigating that, yeah.
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:14.000
Uh and I've mentioned before, my my mom had a little chihuahua that we found.
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:16.159
And we used to joke about that.
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:20.800
She told that dog, I love you more than she ever did my brother and I.
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:22.079
And I think she did.
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:23.840
I mean, and the dog came first.
00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:30.400
We, you know, once you had the dog, you know, uh we talked about that your mom was in Missouri and you were in Oregon.
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:41.920
When her cancer came back, you spent a good bit of time traveling back and forth to be with her, which had to be difficult on you as well.
00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:43.280
Yeah.
00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:56.719
Yeah, that that's um I actually was here in Bend, um, which is where I am right now, um, which is a special place for our family because my parents helped us kind of get this.
00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:00.960
It was a it's a vacation house, and we spent a lot of time here together.
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:04.159
They would come out here and they would live here in Oregon part of the year.
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:09.920
We always spent this time of year together, and it was here that um that we got the call.
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:13.440
In fact, my brother was here too, that her cancer had come back.
00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:38.239
And this was in April of 2017, and we knew it was we knew it was bad just from the the sound of you know the call and um all the years that she had had, and it had it had you know manifested into other other parts of her body, and she immediately was having to have some surgeries, and so my brother and I really wanted to to be there.
00:35:38.400 --> 00:36:02.719
We also each had her own families and full-time jobs, and um I was really grateful that that my employer, my boss, was incredibly gracious or um flexible with everything, and I ended up going back every month uh for a week to help with just caring for her, um, making sure she felt loved.
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:04.079
My brother and I did that.
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:22.480
We arranged it so that she never had to be in the hospital, you know, and then eventually hospice came in, but my mom from that diagnosis lived for it was about seven or eight months, if I'm not mistaken, and and then passed later in in that year.
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:39.840
And so uh that was you know, if if I really if I really get into thinking about that time, it was it was probably one of the definitely the hardest.
00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:44.880
But you you did get that time with her.
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:58.159
Yeah, and that and that is that was I think that was something I I feel so grateful that I was able to have the time, I made the time.
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:00.880
It was, you know, sometimes at the expense of my own family.
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:03.760
I'm like, you guys got this, you can figure this out.
00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:17.920
But uh, you know, my mom didn't want to be a bird, and she was always one to say, and she wasn't saying in a pass aggressive way, like, you guys don't need to come back, but it wasn't that we needed to, like we we wanted to be there, and uh yeah.
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:21.360
You said she was 72 when she died, right?
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:22.559
Yeah, she was pretty young.
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:28.719
She had just turned 72, and she was, you know, I told you about all that energy.
00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:36.559
I mean, she was the kind of person who's gonna live like into her 90s, so it it really felt like her life was was cut short.
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:41.280
She had a great life, um, but she, you know, she wasn't ready to die.
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:52.880
She she had a lot of living left, and I think it was really hard for her to have that that diagnosis and kind of eventually um accept what was happening.
00:37:53.679 --> 00:38:10.719
But you know, I will say the gift of knowing when someone is gonna pass, especially someone whom you love greatly, gives you more time to prepare and to say things that maybe you wouldn't say and to to be there in ways that you might not make time for.
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:12.800
And that in the end was a gift.
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:25.199
Uh so I as hard as it was to see my mom um just get sicker and sicker, it was uh it was a gift to be there and spend time with her and to to let her know how much she was loved.
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:25.440
Yeah.
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:27.760
Yeah, because she did that for us her whole life.
00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:30.800
So was Snoodles still around?
00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:41.519
You know, no, and and and actually Susan, you know, Snoodles Snoodles died about a year before my mom got her um sentence.
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:50.320
And I think yeah, yeah, and I think that kind of was something that you know, she thought a lot more about death after Snoodles died.
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:51.840
He also lived a long time.
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:59.519
Yeah, I think that was something that kind of she probably already maybe knew deep inside that she was sick, and maybe, you know, I don't know.
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:03.760
We're gonna go back, but it's amazing the impact that pets can have.
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:09.119
So I've just finished the book The Correspondent by Virginia Evans.
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:10.000
Have you read that?
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:11.519
It is on my list.
00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:12.639
I actually have it.
00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:13.599
Yes, yes.
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:19.920
Symbol, the main character, it's a pistolary novel in that she's writing all these letters.
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:25.840
So the whole story is told through her writing the letters and then the letters that she received.
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:27.360
So I want to close with this.
00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:45.679
If you sat down today and wrote your mother a letter, or maybe made a cassette tape like you used to send it back to your grandma, uh, and you were telling her how her influence and maybe even her presence still in your in your life.
00:39:46.000 --> 00:40:05.280
And if you were telling how that she's guiding you kind of in this space in your life with uh kind of being an empty nester and and uh where you are in your career and in your life, what what would you tell her in that letter or cassette tape?
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:08.239
Gosh, I'm gonna cry again.
00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:13.360
So many big emotions talking about this.
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:21.760
I think I think one thing I would tell her is that that I still feel her presence every day.
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:25.199
And I wasn't sure how that was gonna go after she passed.
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:26.880
You know, it's been nine years.
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:35.360
I'm actually almost in awe of how strong I still feel my mom and her presence and her guidance.
00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:44.639
I would tell my mom that I I still hear her, I can hear her give advice, I can hear her chime in, I can hear if she wouldn't like something.
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:54.880
I mean, it it's it's amazing how much my mom is still in my my DNA or just my my own spirit.
00:40:55.280 --> 00:41:04.639
I would tell her that I understand things more about decisions she made that I didn't understand when they were happening.
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:06.400
And I might give one example.
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:12.719
I think, you know, you probably heard Susan, like I think we all hear, like, oh, we turn into our mother the older you get, you know.
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:19.840
And as as I'm aging and my kids are now out of the house, you know, I'm in a different phase of my life.
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:34.960
I never understood why after my mom retired, like why she and my dad didn't just like up and move closer to us and why she still felt, you know, so tied to her community.
00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:45.360
And I guess I I just would want her to know that I have maybe more compassion and understanding for decisions she made that I didn't understand when I was younger.
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:47.360
And and that is how I'm feeling now.
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:51.599
Like, of course, you feel connected to a community, to your friends.
00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:57.840
Um, to for her, it was her healthcare providers, and a lot of things make sense to me now that didn't.
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:01.039
And I I guess I would just want to tell her because I gave her some grief.
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:02.800
Like, why don't you guys live out here?
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:04.000
What's holding you back in St.
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:04.400
Louis?
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:09.840
You got your grandkids here, and instead they just kind of did their tour and they visited, but they always went back to St.
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:19.679
Louis and had such a strong sense of community there, which which I also love and appreciate now, and maybe at the time didn't really understand her value.
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:26.000
I would thank her for just being an awesome mom, but I feel like I already told her that, you know, I had times to tell her that.
00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:28.480
Yeah, I'm sure I'm missing some things here.
00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:37.440
I mean, I would tell her that I I don't know how I would say this exactly, but some things just aren't as fun without her, you know.
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:45.760
Um it's like when your favorite person in a party leaves and it's not the same party, and and there's still so much joy.
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:51.119
My mom had a lot of joy, but some things just stuck with her, you know.
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:55.119
And I think she knows that, and I think she was worried about that.
00:42:55.280 --> 00:43:04.320
But um, I would just want her to know how much she was missed and how much we all still think about her lover, that her presence is still very strong and so.
00:43:04.639 --> 00:43:12.079
One thing I would say is I see my mom in birds, she loved birds, she and my brother were just these nerdy birders.
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:27.840
I never got into it, but my mom loved hummingbirds, and uh there are times where hummingbirds visit me, and I just gotta think if anyone could push through the universe to the other from one side to the other, it would be my mother.
00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:48.239
And there are times where I think like this has to be her, or I see something I feel signed, and I would just I I want her to know that I see her, I feel her still, you know, because I feel like if there is an afterlife, all those things that she's still trying to connect out here because she also misses us.
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:49.519
Yeah.
00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:55.039
You you were talking about that uh you hear her voice sometimes.
00:43:55.679 --> 00:44:02.719
I hear my voice through my own mouth, my mother's voice sometimes through I will say something and I'm like, oh, that is Bobby Till.
00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:03.920
That's my mom.
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:06.239
That's what she would say.
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:12.480
And I and I I have those things too where uh I'm doing something and I wish to I I wish I could tell her about it.
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:13.920
Oh, you my mother would love this.
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:16.320
I wish she could see this, or I wish I could show it to her.
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:18.719
So but thank thank you for doing this.
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:27.920
I I know it's some people have said it's therapeutic, but it's also hard to it it's fun to to to go back through the memories, but it's also hard.
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:32.960
And so I appreciate you joining me today and and uh opening up about your mom.
00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:41.760
The the thanks goes to you, Susan, because it it is not common, especially now, that I have the occasion to talk about my mom like this.
00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:46.719
And so it it was therapeutic and it's also a gift, you know, it's a gift to to keep.
00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:04.799
I'm in Bend, Oregon, which is about a couple hours from Corvallis.
00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:05.200
Okay.
00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:12.720
So Jessica DuPont is the interim vice provost of Oregon State University's Division of eCampus.
00:00:13.279 --> 00:00:18.960
She's also the mother of two, and is, I believe, an empty nester these days.
00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:21.760
So transitioning into that.
00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:23.120
So I'm glad you're here.
00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:24.800
Thanks for joining us today.
00:00:25.440 --> 00:00:26.559
Thanks for inviting me.
00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:29.120
I'm really excited to be part of this podcast.
00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:38.159
So now some of you may be wondering now how did a country girl from Mississippi and uh somebody from Oregon uh connect?
00:00:38.399 --> 00:00:43.439
But we have been both very involved in our professional association up to.
00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:54.240
We're both now serving on the board of directors, but uh we've kind of known each other for uh several years in in passing at first and then uh now working together a little bit more.
00:00:54.399 --> 00:01:04.400
I don't know, recently I think I saw you post something about your mother, and then we talked at a conference really just briefly about the podcast, and then here we are.
00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:14.879
So one thing I I'm I'm really bad about forgetting, we will get all the way or almost all the way through the podcast and never mention the mother's name because we'll just be talking about my mom, my mother.
00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:17.680
So tell us your mother's name to start with, Jessica.
00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:23.120
Yeah, my my mom's name was Laura Lynn Gloss.
00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:26.159
And and Gloss is Polish.
00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:31.359
I maybe we'll tell talk a little bit about that, but um Laura, Laura was her name.
00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:33.599
Laura Lynn Gloss.
00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:34.719
Okay, good.
00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:39.439
Now she uh was a little closer to Mississippi, right?
00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:41.519
She grew up in uh it was from St.
00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:42.959
Louis, Missouri.
00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:50.319
So tell us a little bit about uh her her years growing up, and I think from a big fairly large family.
00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:51.519
That's right.
00:01:51.680 --> 00:01:59.599
Actually, my mom was was born in Chicago, uh uh Illinois, and she was the the first of six kids.
00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:04.799
Eddie and Dorothy started a family right after World War II ended.
00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:07.760
Her dad was was a cook in the Navy.
00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:13.199
So she grew up in a predominantly Polish neighborhood in Chicago, and actually they met in St.
00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:14.719
Louis, though, so maybe that was a St.
00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:19.520
Louis connection, and and that's that's where I actually spent a lot of my years with my family.
00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:23.840
Um, but my mom really grew up and her family moved when she was really young.
00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:29.919
They moved to a rural part of Wisconsin, a Platsky, Wisconsin, outside of the Green Bay area.
00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:36.240
On her, I believe, maternal side, that there was family already there, and there were there was farms.
00:02:36.319 --> 00:02:43.360
It was a big Polish area, and so that's where she spent her formative years in um North Wisconsin.
00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:47.280
And uh, and yes, it'd be a part of a big family, six kids.
00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:56.719
She was the oldest, uh, two girls were the oldest, and then four boys, and they were a very tight-knit family and um yeah, in a big Polish community.
00:02:57.039 --> 00:03:02.879
So being the the oldest of six, did she kind of have a lot of those mothering tendencies?
00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:05.120
Or do you think that's a great question?
00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:14.400
I I I I think so, but I think the tendency she had was more around being bossy, um, is what I hear from leadership.
00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:15.919
She was a leader, right?
00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:20.319
From her siblings, you know, that she was loud and she was bossy.
00:03:20.400 --> 00:03:34.879
I don't know how much she mothered when she was, you know, I'm sure she's expected to help out with watching her siblings, but um she was she was kind of in charge, uh um, you know, her personality type at a pretty young age.
00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:40.400
And um, and so you know, I I do think she eventually she had mothering tendency.
00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:47.360
She eventually went to college uh and and went on to study elementary education, and that was a lot of her career path.
00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:54.800
So um that that may have stemmed from being part of a big family now that you're saying that, and just having all those little kids there, I'm sure it had an impact.
00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:58.879
They were all really close in age too, so there was a lot of them, a little gaggle.
00:03:59.039 --> 00:03:59.280
Yeah.
00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:01.039
Were they close?
00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:11.120
They were uh very, very close family, especially my mom and her sister, who are just um like a year and a half apart, her sister Barbara.
00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:13.599
Um, really her best friend in life.
00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:16.319
Um, a really sweet relationship there.
00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:18.000
Maybe not in the early years, you know.
00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:22.160
I heard they were pretty awful to each other, which is surprising.
00:04:22.560 --> 00:04:23.360
Pretty surprising.
00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:28.000
I think it sounds like it was mainly my mom who was the mean one, you know, according to my aunt.
00:04:28.240 --> 00:04:40.240
But but I think, you know, watching their relationship and how sweet it was, it was one of the reasons I was so excited to have two girls of my own, um, because I I just loved seeing that um that sisterhood.
00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:43.839
So definitely close to her sister um and her four brothers.
00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:49.680
My mom's youngest brother, um Steve, has some intellectual disabilities.
00:04:49.759 --> 00:04:54.240
And I think that was something that actually um really tightened the family.
00:04:54.399 --> 00:05:02.639
They really took care of him, leaned in, and that was a reason for them to to coalesce, you know, around him and caring for him.
00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:05.759
And so um they were a tight family, yeah.
00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:06.480
Oh yeah.
00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:08.560
Was she was she close to her mother?
00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:10.399
Was she like her mother?
00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:14.160
You know, I don't know that she was like her mother.
00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:21.199
She definitely had a lot of her tendencies, um, but she definitely was close to her, um, especially as she got older.
00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:28.079
I think my grandmother was really busy um raising kids and having, you know, she had a lot to do.
00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:29.920
She had a lot going on.
00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:33.120
I mean, I don't know how much they had a lot of one-on-one time.
00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:40.480
I do know that um, you know, my grandmother was very influential with her overall positivity.
00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:45.920
She's someone who I don't think I ever heard my grandmother say a mean word about anybody.
00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:49.199
Um, there was just sort of an expectation set in the family.
00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:52.000
We don't talk mean about people, we don't say things.
00:05:52.079 --> 00:05:58.160
I mean, there's just a lot of um kind of kindness in in in the family dynamics that I could see.
00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:01.839
Um and so I think as she got older, she got a lot closer.
00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:06.560
But you know, she my grandmother lived in Wisconsin and eventually my mom moved away and lived in St.
00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:08.639
Louis and raised her own family.
00:06:08.879 --> 00:06:16.879
And um, and so they were as close as you can be back in those days with telephone and mail and things like that.
00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:17.680
Yeah.
00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:22.240
So your your grandmother wasn't bossy.
00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:24.800
No, she wasn't.
00:06:24.959 --> 00:06:30.399
She was she was quieter, you know, she was part of that that silent or the great generation, I guess it was.
00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:35.199
Um it was my grandfather who was, I think, the the louder, bossier one.
00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:38.560
My mom inherited a lot of his tendencies, I would say.
00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:43.040
Uh, and my grandmother was a little um kind of softer, quieter.
00:06:43.199 --> 00:06:48.560
And so my mom was definitely um in that way different from my grandmother.
00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:50.000
But yeah.
00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:52.560
So how did she wind up in St.
00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:53.360
Louis?
00:06:53.680 --> 00:07:02.160
Yeah, um, yeah, to tell this story, I'm gonna have to just like go back a little bit and I'll start with this because this is this is kind of a wild story, Susan.
00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:05.360
So it's something like to this day, I almost can't believe so.
00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:11.439
As part of that big family, my mom, I should mention, was part of a very Catholic family, Catholic, Polish American.
00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:16.399
She went through um Catholic school for her, you know, K through 12.
00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:20.000
She ended up going to a Catholic uh small college, St.
00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:22.480
Norbert's in Green Bay, Wisconsin.
00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:29.120
My mom went there for one year and then she dropped out and she joined the nunnery.
00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:32.480
You know, something my mom actually didn't talk a lot about.
00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:37.199
Uh, I I've heard things over, heard things over time and maybe heard it more from her family.
00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:40.319
Her family, who, especially her sister, was devastated.
00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:44.720
She she left, uh kind of left everyone and and went into the nunnery.
00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:51.759
And I think they thought that maybe that wasn't a path, that wasn't her path, you know, but she had to figure that out for herself.
00:07:51.839 --> 00:08:03.360
And what I heard and how she framed it was she thought life was more serious or meaningful than what she was experiencing in college, and she decided to kind of drop out.
00:08:03.439 --> 00:08:06.879
And I think it was also kind of popular in that time.
00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:09.600
This would have been in 1964.
00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:15.279
That was something that was, I don't want to say trending, but that there were more girls going into this.
00:08:15.439 --> 00:08:21.680
Anyway, she dropped out, she then met my dad, you know, as part of that, and then went back to college.
00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:28.399
So she she did last for a year, and they eventually got married and had had us young.
00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:29.519
They were young parents.
00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:36.080
My mom was 23 when she when she had me, and then my brother was 15 months later, my brother Jason.
00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:37.519
Before we landed in St.
00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:42.159
Louis, we spent four years in Heidelberg, Germany, because my dad was in the military.
00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:45.120
And so at a young age, that was a big deal back then.
00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:49.840
They up and took their small family, young family, and then came back and we settled in St.
00:08:49.919 --> 00:08:52.159
Louis, mainly for my dad's career.
00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:59.120
But my mom eventually became a teacher and had a very successful career in K-12 as both a teacher and a principal.
00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:00.000
Yeah, okay.
00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:01.840
So you got to back up a second.
00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:07.120
So your mom went to a nunnery and met your dad.
00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:09.039
You're gonna have to explain that to me.
00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:10.000
I know.
00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:16.639
You don't usually think of, hey, I've I'm gonna go to a nunnery so I can meet a guy.
00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:17.440
Right.
00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:20.399
Well, she she met my dad after she quit the nunnery.
00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:22.960
So I I should have I should have maybe explained that detail.
00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:31.600
She she she lasted for a year and then I think on her own realized um it was it wasn't her path and it wasn't right for her.
00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:45.039
And as a result, and this is maybe had the opposite effect because my my family and her siblings all stayed very Catholic and in turn have had you know very close connection to the Catholic Church.
00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:48.080
And my mom kind of pulled away from the Catholic Church.
00:09:48.320 --> 00:10:00.879
And I would say, you know, in that process, and then when she eventually went back to college and she finished, you know, she she only took that year off somewhere in that that coming back to college is when she met my dad, who was also at St.
00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:04.000
Norbert, and uh and that's how they they got together.
00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:08.879
So she had to find herself that that's at college sometime during that time.
00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:14.559
My college roommate, my college roommate, her mother had been a nun.
00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:19.279
And I mean, she was she was an actual nun, uh, which I always thought was interesting.
00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:22.399
This is my mom, she was a nun, which just kind of sounds funny.
00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:28.559
Uh but her name was Jean Marie, so a good Catholic name.
00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:29.440
Uh yeah.
00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:33.759
Okay, so then they met there, and then uh they're in St.
00:10:33.919 --> 00:10:34.559
Louis.
00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:38.320
And I think you said she was 23 when she had you.
00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:47.759
Yeah, she was a young mom, uh, 23, married young, had me uh young, had my brother right after, and then um, and that was it.
00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:49.840
They were done, uh, just the two of us.
00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:50.960
And when she was in St.
00:10:51.039 --> 00:11:00.000
Louis is when she really um she was a teacher actually in Germany, and she was a teacher on the base, on the military base where we where we lived for four years.
00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:03.440
And actually, Susan, this is a fun fact, she was my teacher for a year.
00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:07.440
She was my teacher for um for first grade in Germany.
00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:10.639
You know, you think back, yes, in Germany on the base.
00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:23.440
Uh, we were at uh um uh an American school on the base, so we didn't go to the to the German school, and my mom was one of the American teachers, and it was a really, really cool experience.
00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:25.600
I mean, it was not a small classroom.
00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:30.159
Um, and she was my teacher, she was my brother's teacher for a year.
00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:33.679
Uh, so she's both my mom and my and my teacher, like formally.
00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:36.159
So that was kind of kind of a fun, fun fact.
00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:38.240
I forgot to forgot to mention that earlier.
00:11:38.559 --> 00:11:42.799
Did she let you call her mom in class or do you have to call her like all the other kids?
00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:53.360
No, I think everyone, it this was the 70s, and this was, you know, this was she was definitely my mom and dad were kind of hippies, even though they were my dad was in the military, if that makes sense.
00:11:53.519 --> 00:12:01.039
He did have to cut his hair, but they were really into um, she was very liberal, and I think the kids called her Laura.
00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:05.519
I think my brother and I called her Laura as a teacher, which was kind of funny.
00:12:05.759 --> 00:12:14.720
So I'm sure it went back and forth between Laura and mom, but there was no Miss DuPont, you know, that was her um her married name, Morelyn DuPont.
00:12:15.039 --> 00:12:20.399
Uh and and so yeah, that was that was what we called her, which was which was funny.
00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:27.519
She must have she must have played those cards pretty well though, because it never felt weird, you know, that she was both my teacher and my mom.
00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:34.480
So I uh my sixth grade teacher, um, her daughter was in her class too, but she made her when they were in school.
00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:36.080
She had to call her Mrs.
00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:36.879
Wilkerson.
00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:38.159
So it's interesting.
00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.240
Did she like living in Germany?
00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:42.080
She did, yeah.
00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:46.960
From what from what I know, I think my parents um were pretty adventurous uh looking back on it.
00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:54.960
I think now, especially knowing my own kids are getting close to that age, that they lived in another country, you know, back then.
00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:57.360
Um they traveled a lot.
00:12:57.519 --> 00:13:04.720
We ended up meeting um family, really distant family on my dad's side who was Belgian and connected with them.
00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:16.480
Um, it was a real I think it was one of those really life expanding um and eye-opening experiences, both for my parents and for my brother and me, um, which gave us a bigger worldview.
00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:19.360
And it was, you know, really different to live in a foreign country.
00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:24.240
And um I I'm also thinking it would probably have been really hard for her.
00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:26.879
And those are that's the part of my mom I don't really know.
00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:31.279
Like, how did she juggle all that distance and being away from her own family?
00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:35.039
Um, we used to make, we used to make tapes, like the old tape cassettes.
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:36.799
Yeah, we would we would exchange those.
00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:46.320
And I and I recently, you know, I have some of those tapes, but tapes that we would we would make for my grandparents, we'd send them to Wisconsin, and then they would send us news this way.
00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:55.519
So it was kind of like, you know, what what we sort of have today, it wasn't wasn't the letters, it was actually tape cassettes that we'd be mailing back and forth, which was kind of kind of cool.
00:13:55.600 --> 00:14:10.879
So that is fun because then you could hear the hear the voice, and that's important to hear be able to hear the voice because sometimes uh uh for her mother, you could hear in the voice if they're doing okay, which you can't sometimes get in writing.
00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:11.440
That's right.
00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:12.240
Yeah.
00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:21.759
So how did that you said that they were kind of hippies and somewhat liberal, how did that uh impact how she mothered you and your brother?
00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:23.519
What kind of mother was she?
00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:39.919
Um yeah, and my mom was um, first of all, bigger than life, like just one of those those moms who um you know is is has no problem meeting other friends, connecting with other moms.
00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:42.159
Like my friends always love my mom.
00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:47.919
So she was kind of a big life force and and just uh really she related well to everybody.
00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:56.480
And I I actually um want to credit that part of her upbringing, I think, to working in my grandfather's store.
00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:58.960
Um, he had a store uh outside of Pulaski.
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:01.360
He was a butcher, he had his own IGA store.
00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:02.720
All the kids worked in the store.
00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:08.879
They had some really hands-on opportunities for customer service that you know kids today don't get.
00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:12.240
And she she knew how to talk to anybody and everybody.
00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:18.240
And uh, and I think that was something she learned uh growing up and working in my in my grandpa's store.
00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:20.399
Um, but you asked what kind of a mother was she?
00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:22.960
I mean, this was the 70s and and back in St.
00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:37.360
Louis, you know, I remember growing up to what is it, um, free-to-be, you and me, you know, some of these uh, some of these records, and um um, you know, so definitely a more, I guess, liberal upbringing would be one way to say it.
00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:38.559
Um, what did that mean?
00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:40.559
It still meant there were rules, of course.
00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:43.120
I mean, it's not like we could just do whatever we wanted.
00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:46.399
Um, but she was she was a fun mom.
00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:50.320
I mean, my mom loved to, one of her passions was reading.
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.080
She loved reading to my brother and I.
00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:58.080
She read to us probably up until third, fourth grade, where we'd sit around and she would read to us.
00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:01.200
That was um, you know, part of her schooling.
00:16:01.279 --> 00:16:03.200
Uh, she had a specialty in reading.
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:07.200
She um, so so that was just like kind of something I'm remembering.
00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:09.840
Um what else can I say?
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:13.759
I mean, she was really, she had a lot of energy, my mom.
00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:15.120
There was, I don't remember.
00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:25.039
I was kind of thinking back like when she in my you know younger years, I never remember my mom sitting down and like on the couch taking it easy.
00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:35.039
She's kind of the antithesis of a couch potato, you know, and and so, but all that energy sometimes, like, you know, she she could she probably needed to relax a little bit.
00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:39.200
I don't I I I don't remember her sleeping or napping, but she wasn't a napper.
00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:39.919
She would say that.
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:40.480
I don't nap.
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:43.200
I'm like so I I didn't inherit that from her.
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:44.320
I do love a good nap.
00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:48.799
You know, did she expect that of y'all you as well?
00:16:49.759 --> 00:16:54.000
Did she expect you to go and yeah, the high energy and to be involved in things?
00:16:54.240 --> 00:16:56.480
And did she kind of raise you to do that?
00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:59.360
I mean, I think that was just her MO.
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:05.599
I, you know, one one of her favorite sayings, you know, was it's time to kick it into high gear.
00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:09.920
And and I say that to my girl, you know, I've said that to my girls, like, what does that even mean?
00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:11.519
Like, it's time to kick it into high gear.
00:17:11.599 --> 00:17:12.880
Like, you like, let's get going.
00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:14.400
Like you clean up your room, you know.
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:16.559
She was she was a let's go kind of person.
00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:21.279
She was someone who would be running errands and like, oh, we can make it over to that store before they're close.
00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:27.039
I mean, she was constantly, you know, maximizing and and that felt just normal to me.
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:28.319
It didn't feel stressful.
00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:33.519
I I think now seeing how other people live, or even what I asked my own kids to do.
00:17:33.599 --> 00:17:35.200
I'm like, let's go on a shopping spree.
00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:42.240
And you know, I remembering what my mom would do, we would just shop till we drop literally, you know, and um, and not everyone has that kind of energy.
00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.240
So she she had a lot of energy.
00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:44.559
Yeah.
00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.599
Well, and and you said she was an elementary school teacher.
00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:58.079
She was a fourth grade teacher for um a good part of her career, and then she went into um, she was a principal and she became a principal and a really beloved principal in um the St.
00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:05.039
Louis School District for um probably split half in half, half teaching, half principal, yeah, for about 30 years.
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:07.599
So she needed to be high energy in that role.
00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:08.480
I think so.
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:09.599
You have to, right?
00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:11.279
With little kids, right?
00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:12.480
Yeah.
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:24.319
I noticed you put posted on LinkedIn something about her, and you said that she was kind of a a model for you in your career, and and maybe as a mom too.
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:26.240
Absolutely.
00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:41.440
I think um, you know, I saw my mom go back to school twice um when I was growing up, and what that meant for us as kids was dad was cooking those nights, or we were on our own cooking.
00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:52.480
Um, she went back and got a master's um in education when I was um, you know, in elementary school, and then she went back and got another degree to become a principal.
00:18:52.640 --> 00:19:03.119
So we saw I saw her firsthand juggle working, parenting, and school, which is, you know, kind of ironic is when I think about the field that you and I are in.
00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:12.160
I mean, we are working with adult learners and um in higher continued education where they're going back to school to advance in their career, switch careers.
00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:19.119
So I saw that firsthand, which was um definitely modeled for me that you can juggle all that.
00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:22.480
I it she made it look easy, but it it's not easy.
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:28.400
I think for those of us who do that juggling, it it's a lot of work and you can get pretty worn down.
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:34.720
But she she did set a really strong example for me that you can have a career if you want to.
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:36.640
You can do this, you can be a mom.
00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:38.640
And she was also a very present mom.
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:43.039
It's not like she was off doing her own thing and we felt like we were ignored.
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:44.319
But I think that was important.
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:54.319
I don't think that's common all the time to see that, and especially as you're being raised, to have your parents then go back to school and see how they are doing that.
00:19:54.640 --> 00:20:10.160
One of our our guests was talking about, and I think even some of it thinking about this podcast, there were some decisions that she realized she made in her life that she's just now kind of figuring, you know, that that was probably influenced by my mom.
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:16.640
Was was your career choice to go into higher ed and do some of the things that we do?
00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:20.640
Did that come out of that, or is it just coincidental?
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:24.319
I I think I think it definitely had a play in that.
00:20:24.400 --> 00:20:26.480
I I I did teach for a while.
00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:28.319
I I was a teacher for just a little bit.
00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:30.640
I was in the Peace Corps and I I taught English.
00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:33.839
Um, I came back to the States and thought I might want to go into teaching.
00:20:34.079 --> 00:20:40.559
So that right there is a you know a reflection of um, you know, I I come from a family of teachers.
00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:44.160
Um, so education is highly valued in our families.
00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:55.119
It was something that my grandparents, even though they didn't go to college and my grandfather only went through eighth grade education, they highly valued all their kids who were college educated who could.
00:20:55.359 --> 00:21:11.839
And um, so I think now I'm like, you know, I'm I'm in higher education, and I do think when you grow up with an educator as a family member, and you know, my dad also um, you know, he he wasn't he taught for a little bit in college, but he was uh ended up being a healthcare administrator.
00:21:12.000 --> 00:21:13.039
You are impacted.
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:19.279
I mean, let me just say this like for better or worse, because sometimes, you know, it it could be a little bit of a drag.
00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:22.160
I mean, everything was like an educational opportunity.
00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:26.079
Like we would be driving and it was every roadside stop.
00:21:26.160 --> 00:21:28.480
Like, well, what what does that plaque say?
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:37.759
I mean, our family, my mom are we're big on tours, like, well, let's go tour that, you know, and we're not even talking about tours that are like common tourist-y things.
00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:41.519
We're like, well, maybe that new bakery will do a tour for us.
00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:52.000
Or, I mean, there was just like constant curiosity and a love of learning and sharing that that absolutely impacted me, impacted my brother.
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:58.559
Feel a passion towards education and how it can unlock a lot of potential upward social mobility for others.
00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:00.960
I saw that my own family, my My parents were young.
00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:02.000
We didn't have a lot of money.
00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:03.920
We lived in a very modest house.
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.680
We were on food stamps when we first moved back to the States or Germany.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.240
You know, my parents were poverty level at that time.
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.000
My mom was a substitute teacher.
00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.079
My dad was going to grad school.
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:19.119
I I saw what education and what you know how that how that changed our family.
00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:26.240
And so I I know that had an impact on ultimately I I picked, which was in higher education and as an administrator.
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:26.880
Yeah.
00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:28.559
So you mentioned the Peace Corps.
00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:31.359
So you were in Romania for a couple of years.
00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:31.759
I was.
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:32.400
Yeah.
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:32.960
Yeah.
00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:36.400
So how did how did she feel about that?
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:46.640
When when I told my mother I was gonna be going to Africa and in India and all those places, you know, she wasn't very happy about it because most of her life was in Mississippi.
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:49.279
What did your mom think about you being in the Peace Corps?
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:53.759
My mom was pretty excited about me going to the Peace Corps.
00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:56.400
I I will say that she was very worried in the beginning.
00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:00.640
When I went to the Peace Corps, it was 1992, 1992 to 94.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:10.319
One of my majors in college was French, and there was a really strong possibility I was going to go to French-speaking Africa, which I was actually thought that would have been really cool.
00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:11.599
I could have used my language.
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:12.880
That sounded interesting to me.
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:15.440
And at the time, AIDS epidemic was really strong.
00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:19.839
And my my mom in particular was really worried, did not want me to go to Africa.
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:24.559
Um, even though she I consider her very worldly, I think she really was worried about that.
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:29.839
And in the end, when I got the assignment for Romania and it was an education, I was going to be a teacher there.
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:31.039
She was ecstatic.
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:33.200
One thing I didn't know, this is interesting.
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:35.920
I didn't know my mom wanted to go into the Peace Corps.
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:40.160
She only told me after I went through the whole process, because it's a long process.
00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:56.319
It took a year to go through everything, all the tests and you know, the assignments that she said she wanted though, that she felt a special calling when JFK, you know, started the Peace Corps, and that was something that she wanted to do, but you know, she she got married young and and had my brother and I.
00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:00.799
And I think that changed maybe something she would have done if she didn't choose that.
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:01.599
So yeah.
00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:06.160
I remember I looked at the I looked at the Peace Corps requirements one time and and it's all in.
00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:10.640
You as I recall, you couldn't have debt and different things.
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:15.920
So uh having a family certainly would be a barrier to that.
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:18.799
And so she kind of lived vicariously through you and then, I guess.
00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:19.519
I think so.
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:22.079
We spent a lot of money on telephone.
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:30.400
We kind of laugh and say that um ATT had a whole like wall for like the DuPont family for all the phone calls.
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.359
This was pre-internet, pre-cell phones.
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:36.240
And yeah, my mom, um, we would have a weekly call.
00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:40.559
Um, it was hard, you know, being that far away from her and my family.
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:42.559
Uh, I was there for two years.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:44.799
My my parents did come and visit me.
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:51.279
When I was in the Peace Corps, um, I I learned that my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer.
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:54.480
That was really, a really hard thing.
00:24:54.640 --> 00:25:05.359
The Peace Corps was, first of all, a pretty amazing experience, but also very sobering, a lot of sobering parts of the Peace Corps being on your own, having to really dig deep and lean on yourself.
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:11.039
And when I learned about my mom having breast cancer, I I almost quit.
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:13.599
And I felt like I had to go back.
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:15.599
I wanted to be there for her.
00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:17.759
She did not want me to quit.
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:25.599
And she was very firm about, you know, I I'm fine, I'm being taken care of, I'm getting good treatment.
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:29.599
That was that was tough for me with her being sick.
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:39.839
You know, she went through all of her treatments and then she and my dad came to visit, and that was pretty incredible that she had done that and she really wanted to see.
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:50.319
So that was that was maybe something in that whole Peace Corps experience, not only having it be tough being far away, but then dealing with the parent who was sick and feeling kind of helpless about it.
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:52.319
I I struggled with that, yeah.
00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:58.240
And she was like in her 40s then and r responded well to treatment.
00:25:58.559 --> 00:25:58.960
She did.
00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:00.880
They caught it, you know, they caught it early.
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:05.119
She was in her mid to late 40s when she got her diagnosis.
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:06.880
She had a mastectomy.
00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:11.680
She, I think because she was, you know, treated pretty aggressively even back then.
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:16.720
Her care, it's one thing she's she talked about a lot was her care team being in St.
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:18.559
Louis, a major medical hub.
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:30.640
She felt like, you know, I really credit the care she got early on and just how much she wanted to stay well, as uh, you know, having having that be something that helped her live longer.
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:34.559
So my mom was a breast cancer survivor for 25 years.
00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:37.920
Ultimately, that that is how she she passed.
00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:44.079
It came back, but she had 25 really great years and lived a very full life.
00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:55.519
And I think that also, you know, it changed our relationship because when you know your parent is is sick and then they're better, there's always that fear that it's gonna come back.
00:26:55.759 --> 00:26:59.839
And you know, you kind of are always dreading like a phone call or something.
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:12.799
But she, for the most part, was really lucky, um, got good treatment, and was, I think, an inspiration to a lot of other survivors with just how to live and be fully present and seize the day.
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:21.440
You know, that was something she she did before breast cancer, but I think she lived even more intentionally and more in the present moment afterwards.
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:24.720
So she kicked it into overdrive for 25 years, huh?
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:25.440
She did.
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:27.200
Kicked it into high gear, high gear.
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:28.079
That's what I mean.
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:30.319
She she she kicked it into high gear.
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:33.839
She she uh she lived a good life, you know.
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:38.160
She was always up for something fun, and yeah, she didn't let that define her.
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:42.079
She didn't actually talk about it a lot, like after she kind of kicked it.
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:51.920
Like, you know, she wasn't someone who wore pink in breast cancer, whereas moms, she didn't really, she didn't really talk about it a lot, but uh, you know, it was there, it was there all the time, you know.
00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:53.440
It was in her mind, I'm sure.
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:54.960
What kind of grandmother was she?
00:27:55.119 --> 00:27:59.200
Because that that tends to is she the same grandmother?
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:02.720
I mean, most of the times gr grandmothers are just different than mothers.
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:04.720
She's probably more fun as a grandmother.
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:08.799
My my kids called her everyone, you know, she's got she had five grandkids.
00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.839
They called her grandma do, uh, for DuPont.
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:15.759
You know, grandma do, she she was went by the short name of Do, you know, DuPont.
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:19.680
She didn't want to be grandma or, you know, one of those, like, she didn't want to sound old.
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:21.839
She was an awesome grandmother.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:30.640
I think our relationship, you know, you don't really know what kind of well, because of her experience being a teacher, she was just a natural of kids.
00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:34.000
So not all grandparents are naturals with kids at all stages.
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.599
And so that was just really lucky that she's someone who loved that.
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:40.240
She didn't think she was gonna be a grandmother season.
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:43.200
So I I got married and started my family pretty late.
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:44.720
And so did my brother.
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:49.279
And so I think at some point, you know, she was like, I don't think it's gonna happen for me.
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:57.680
So when it did, I mean, boy, my my oldest daughter, uh, my oldest, who is was her oldest uh grandkid, she was spoiled rotten.
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:00.400
And those two, I mean, talk about the connection.
00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:04.640
I see so much of my mom in my daughter, my oldest, especially.
00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:10.799
Even today, I am with my oldest, her name is Charlie, short for Charlotte.
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:12.960
And I feel like I'm with my mom sometimes.
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:16.559
It's it's almost uncanny how those traits can be passed down.
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:22.000
She has a lot of my my mom's tendencies, but also just like her kind of overall spirit.
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:26.799
And I think a lot of that was just like how much my mom spent time with her, you know, as a kid.
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:29.440
So it was she was an awesome grandma.
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:29.920
Yeah.
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:32.559
Did you change the two of your relationship?
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:38.400
I mean, I think I just had a newfound appreciation because my husband and I were in Oregon.
00:29:38.480 --> 00:29:39.759
We had moved out to Oregon.
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:40.799
She was still in St.
00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:48.160
Louis, and I just realized how much it matters when family is close to you when you're raising your own kids.
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:51.119
And I had this newfound appreciation.
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:57.519
I think a part of my upbringing and um encouragement, like go live your life, go do things.
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:01.119
And, you know, people who stay in their hometowns and never move.
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:18.559
There was not that that was frowned upon, but I actually changed my perspective about how I value family and proximity to family when my kids were born and how I saw and and how lucky to be near your grandkids, like to be in the proximity where you can drive.
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:23.359
I I would follow my kids and my girls when they have their own kids anywhere.
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:25.599
I don't want to be far away, you know.
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:39.359
And I think I would say I valued her more and my dad for really being involved and wanting to be a part of of my kids' lives and and showing up and spending time and giving us breaks, you know.
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:45.599
You can only like pass off a a kid who's who's got like measles or lice or something to your own family.
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:46.720
You can't do that.
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:49.039
That's a grandmother's job, right?
00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:51.680
Grandmother's job, you know.
00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:53.839
So yeah, she she was up for that.
00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:54.160
Yeah.
00:30:54.559 --> 00:30:55.039
That's right.
00:30:55.200 --> 00:31:01.759
Well, a lot of times we talk about the relationship of mothers and daughters is complicated for a lot of reasons.
00:31:01.920 --> 00:31:05.839
Uh, you said that y'all were both non-confrontational.
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:06.400
Yeah.
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:08.480
You both kind of like harmony.
00:31:08.640 --> 00:31:17.759
There wasn't a lot of confrontation, but you you did tell me about Snoodles, that apparently there's a little bit of friction around.
00:31:18.960 --> 00:31:20.000
Tell me about that.
00:31:20.319 --> 00:31:31.039
So yeah, you know, as much as I can just talk to you all day long about all the things I love to be long, there's definitely a few things that we were at odds against.
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:35.839
And a lot of this is gonna boil down to her dog smoodles.
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:42.640
And and I told you earlier that, you know, my parents, my mom thought, well, maybe we're not gonna have grandkids.
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:51.920
And so the the funny thing is, Susan, is that I grew up with no dogs and my mom was really allergic to all pets, and so the pets were just off-limit.
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:53.200
We didn't even think about that.
00:31:53.359 --> 00:32:02.079
And I kind of realize now having pets and you know what we missed out on, but she ended up getting a dog, I think, in in lieu of a grandkid.
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:12.079
And this this is a little Westy, a little West Highland terrier, but actually not really all that lovable or adorable to anyone other than my mother.
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:19.599
The two of them were really connected, and she she babied this dog in ways that I thought was odd and unusual.
00:32:19.839 --> 00:32:23.039
And you know, I was like, okay, great, mom's getting a dog.
00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:25.519
My brother and I actually the whole family felt this way.
00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:36.559
But what but I'll just say she always took Snoodle side, even over like her own kids or get this, her own grandkids.
00:32:36.720 --> 00:32:37.200
Oh, wow.
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:50.720
Story I'll share, and you know, I might be giving you a hint about this is the one time she was visiting and staying with us, and I think my my youngest was about two or three years old, have a piece of food in her hand, you know, it was a cracker or something.
00:32:50.960 --> 00:32:52.400
The dog traveled with her too.
00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:57.839
The dog traveled like on Southwest, all the airlines that took dogs, the dog would come with her.
00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:02.160
So, so just you know, any any visit, like the dog that this is, you know, the dog would come.
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:04.880
So it was my mom and the dog, or my dad too.
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:15.119
And Snoodles um jumped out, you know, and grabbed this, grabbed this food, but but actually bit my my daughter, who started crying.
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:28.400
And we were like, oh my gosh, you know, she was like a little nipped, nipped her, it was bleeding a little bit, like she bit her, like, oh my gosh, you know, this is this is Snoodles, what what you know, and so we were like, like, what the heck?
00:33:28.799 --> 00:33:33.680
And she, you know, uh unbelievably came to Snoodles defense.
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:37.440
It was, well, honey, she had a cracker in her hand.
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:50.079
Of course, Snoodles was gonna, you know, and I was like, You're defending Snoodles, you know, and so it was just this whole, you know, that was just like one example of just where Snoodles got away with everything.
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:53.119
And, you know, they spent a lot of money on Snoodles.
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:56.559
And my my husband too had a hard time with Snoodles.
00:33:56.880 --> 00:34:01.440
So it was just definitely a little bit of uh there's some friction uh with Snoodles.
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:05.440
That was probably a little, a little bit of what got into some of our relationship.
00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:08.000
So navigating that, yeah.
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:14.000
Uh and I've mentioned before, my my mom had a little chihuahua that we found.
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:16.159
And we used to joke about that.
00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:20.800
She told that dog, I love you more than she ever did my brother and I.
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:22.079
And I think she did.
00:34:22.400 --> 00:34:23.840
I mean, and the dog came first.
00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:30.400
We, you know, once you had the dog, you know, uh we talked about that your mom was in Missouri and you were in Oregon.
00:34:30.719 --> 00:34:41.920
When her cancer came back, you spent a good bit of time traveling back and forth to be with her, which had to be difficult on you as well.
00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:43.280
Yeah.
00:34:43.840 --> 00:34:56.719
Yeah, that that's um I actually was here in Bend, um, which is where I am right now, um, which is a special place for our family because my parents helped us kind of get this.
00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:00.960
It was a it's a vacation house, and we spent a lot of time here together.
00:35:01.119 --> 00:35:04.159
They would come out here and they would live here in Oregon part of the year.
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:09.920
We always spent this time of year together, and it was here that um that we got the call.
00:35:10.079 --> 00:35:13.440
In fact, my brother was here too, that her cancer had come back.
00:35:13.760 --> 00:35:38.239
And this was in April of 2017, and we knew it was we knew it was bad just from the the sound of you know the call and um all the years that she had had, and it had it had you know manifested into other other parts of her body, and she immediately was having to have some surgeries, and so my brother and I really wanted to to be there.
00:35:38.400 --> 00:36:02.719
We also each had her own families and full-time jobs, and um I was really grateful that that my employer, my boss, was incredibly gracious or um flexible with everything, and I ended up going back every month uh for a week to help with just caring for her, um, making sure she felt loved.
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:04.079
My brother and I did that.
00:36:04.159 --> 00:36:22.480
We arranged it so that she never had to be in the hospital, you know, and then eventually hospice came in, but my mom from that diagnosis lived for it was about seven or eight months, if I'm not mistaken, and and then passed later in in that year.
00:36:22.639 --> 00:36:39.840
And so uh that was you know, if if I really if I really get into thinking about that time, it was it was probably one of the definitely the hardest.
00:36:42.639 --> 00:36:44.880
But you you did get that time with her.
00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:58.159
Yeah, and that and that is that was I think that was something I I feel so grateful that I was able to have the time, I made the time.
00:36:58.239 --> 00:37:00.880
It was, you know, sometimes at the expense of my own family.
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:03.760
I'm like, you guys got this, you can figure this out.
00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:17.920
But uh, you know, my mom didn't want to be a bird, and she was always one to say, and she wasn't saying in a pass aggressive way, like, you guys don't need to come back, but it wasn't that we needed to, like we we wanted to be there, and uh yeah.
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:21.360
You said she was 72 when she died, right?
00:37:21.599 --> 00:37:22.559
Yeah, she was pretty young.
00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:28.719
She had just turned 72, and she was, you know, I told you about all that energy.
00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:36.559
I mean, she was the kind of person who's gonna live like into her 90s, so it it really felt like her life was was cut short.
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:41.280
She had a great life, um, but she, you know, she wasn't ready to die.
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:52.880
She she had a lot of living left, and I think it was really hard for her to have that that diagnosis and kind of eventually um accept what was happening.
00:37:53.679 --> 00:38:10.719
But you know, I will say the gift of knowing when someone is gonna pass, especially someone whom you love greatly, gives you more time to prepare and to say things that maybe you wouldn't say and to to be there in ways that you might not make time for.
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:12.800
And that in the end was a gift.
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:25.199
Uh so I as hard as it was to see my mom um just get sicker and sicker, it was uh it was a gift to be there and spend time with her and to to let her know how much she was loved.
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:25.440
Yeah.
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:27.760
Yeah, because she did that for us her whole life.
00:38:27.920 --> 00:38:30.800
So was Snoodles still around?
00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:41.519
You know, no, and and and actually Susan, you know, Snoodles Snoodles died about a year before my mom got her um sentence.
00:38:41.679 --> 00:38:50.320
And I think yeah, yeah, and I think that kind of was something that you know, she thought a lot more about death after Snoodles died.
00:38:50.480 --> 00:38:51.840
He also lived a long time.
00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:59.519
Yeah, I think that was something that kind of she probably already maybe knew deep inside that she was sick, and maybe, you know, I don't know.
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:03.760
We're gonna go back, but it's amazing the impact that pets can have.
00:39:05.360 --> 00:39:09.119
So I've just finished the book The Correspondent by Virginia Evans.
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:10.000
Have you read that?
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:11.519
It is on my list.
00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:12.639
I actually have it.
00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:13.599
Yes, yes.
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:19.920
Symbol, the main character, it's a pistolary novel in that she's writing all these letters.
00:39:20.000 --> 00:39:25.840
So the whole story is told through her writing the letters and then the letters that she received.
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:27.360
So I want to close with this.
00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:45.679
If you sat down today and wrote your mother a letter, or maybe made a cassette tape like you used to send it back to your grandma, uh, and you were telling her how her influence and maybe even her presence still in your in your life.
00:39:46.000 --> 00:40:05.280
And if you were telling how that she's guiding you kind of in this space in your life with uh kind of being an empty nester and and uh where you are in your career and in your life, what what would you tell her in that letter or cassette tape?
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:08.239
Gosh, I'm gonna cry again.
00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:13.360
So many big emotions talking about this.
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:21.760
I think I think one thing I would tell her is that that I still feel her presence every day.
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:25.199
And I wasn't sure how that was gonna go after she passed.
00:40:25.280 --> 00:40:26.880
You know, it's been nine years.
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:35.360
I'm actually almost in awe of how strong I still feel my mom and her presence and her guidance.
00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:44.639
I would tell my mom that I I still hear her, I can hear her give advice, I can hear her chime in, I can hear if she wouldn't like something.
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:54.880
I mean, it it's it's amazing how much my mom is still in my my DNA or just my my own spirit.
00:40:55.280 --> 00:41:04.639
I would tell her that I understand things more about decisions she made that I didn't understand when they were happening.
00:41:04.800 --> 00:41:06.400
And I might give one example.
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:12.719
I think, you know, you probably heard Susan, like I think we all hear, like, oh, we turn into our mother the older you get, you know.
00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:19.840
And as as I'm aging and my kids are now out of the house, you know, I'm in a different phase of my life.
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:34.960
I never understood why after my mom retired, like why she and my dad didn't just like up and move closer to us and why she still felt, you know, so tied to her community.
00:41:35.119 --> 00:41:45.360
And I guess I I just would want her to know that I have maybe more compassion and understanding for decisions she made that I didn't understand when I was younger.
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:47.360
And and that is how I'm feeling now.
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:51.599
Like, of course, you feel connected to a community, to your friends.
00:41:51.760 --> 00:41:57.840
Um, to for her, it was her healthcare providers, and a lot of things make sense to me now that didn't.
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:01.039
And I I guess I would just want to tell her because I gave her some grief.
00:42:01.119 --> 00:42:02.800
Like, why don't you guys live out here?
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:04.000
What's holding you back in St.
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:04.400
Louis?
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:09.840
You got your grandkids here, and instead they just kind of did their tour and they visited, but they always went back to St.
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:19.679
Louis and had such a strong sense of community there, which which I also love and appreciate now, and maybe at the time didn't really understand her value.
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:26.000
I would thank her for just being an awesome mom, but I feel like I already told her that, you know, I had times to tell her that.
00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:28.480
Yeah, I'm sure I'm missing some things here.
00:42:28.639 --> 00:42:37.440
I mean, I would tell her that I I don't know how I would say this exactly, but some things just aren't as fun without her, you know.
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:45.760
Um it's like when your favorite person in a party leaves and it's not the same party, and and there's still so much joy.
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:51.119
My mom had a lot of joy, but some things just stuck with her, you know.
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:55.119
And I think she knows that, and I think she was worried about that.
00:42:55.280 --> 00:43:04.320
But um, I would just want her to know how much she was missed and how much we all still think about her lover, that her presence is still very strong and so.
00:43:04.639 --> 00:43:12.079
One thing I would say is I see my mom in birds, she loved birds, she and my brother were just these nerdy birders.
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:27.840
I never got into it, but my mom loved hummingbirds, and uh there are times where hummingbirds visit me, and I just gotta think if anyone could push through the universe to the other from one side to the other, it would be my mother.
00:43:28.159 --> 00:43:48.239
And there are times where I think like this has to be her, or I see something I feel signed, and I would just I I want her to know that I see her, I feel her still, you know, because I feel like if there is an afterlife, all those things that she's still trying to connect out here because she also misses us.
00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:49.519
Yeah.
00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:55.039
You you were talking about that uh you hear her voice sometimes.
00:43:55.679 --> 00:44:02.719
I hear my voice through my own mouth, my mother's voice sometimes through I will say something and I'm like, oh, that is Bobby Till.
00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:03.920
That's my mom.
00:44:05.199 --> 00:44:06.239
That's what she would say.
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:12.480
And I and I I have those things too where uh I'm doing something and I wish to I I wish I could tell her about it.
00:44:12.559 --> 00:44:13.920
Oh, you my mother would love this.
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:16.320
I wish she could see this, or I wish I could show it to her.
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:18.719
So but thank thank you for doing this.
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:27.920
I I know it's some people have said it's therapeutic, but it's also hard to it it's fun to to to go back through the memories, but it's also hard.
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:32.960
And so I appreciate you joining me today and and uh opening up about your mom.
00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:41.760
The the thanks goes to you, Susan, because it it is not common, especially now, that I have the occasion to talk about my mom like this.
00:44:41.840 --> 00:44:46.719
And so it it was therapeutic and it's also a gift, you know, it's a gift to to keep.
