WEBVTT
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00:00:04.559Hello and welcome to the White Fox Talking Podcast.
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00:00:07.360I'm Mark Charlie Valentine, and here is Seth.
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00:00:08.160Hi Charlie.
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00:00:08.960How are you?
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00:00:09.839Good, thank you.
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00:00:11.119Good man, good man.
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00:00:12.160I will apologise.
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00:00:14.000I'm struggling with a little bit of a cold.
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00:00:14.880How dare you.
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00:00:15.759Sitting next to me.
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00:00:16.239I know.
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00:00:17.440I know London germs.
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00:00:21.760Unfortunately, it's something that I've been given by, I think it was podcast number 15 or so.
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00:00:22.320Yeah.
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00:00:26.239Our uh adaptive snow sports interview with Scott Moorn.
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00:00:28.640Yeah, he's been very kind to pass his cough on.
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00:00:28.879Yeah.
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00:00:35.679I think it's one of those things where people, you know, they're working in these environments up mountains and cold dry air and then go coughing over everyone.
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00:00:37.520And then continental germs as well.
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00:00:38.560Continental germs.
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00:00:42.320Well, we don't we don't we shouldn't we shouldn't talk about barriers and borders, should we, Centre?
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00:00:42.799You know what I mean?
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00:00:48.159We have got a few, we've crossed a few boundaries and barriers with our what's our our uh family trees anyway.
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00:00:48.640You know what I mean?
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00:00:50.079We have a fair collection between us.
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00:00:50.640True.
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00:00:51.039True.
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00:00:53.200Who's in the studio with us today?
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00:00:56.479I am delighted to welcome Martin Watson into the studio.
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00:00:57.280Hello, Martin.
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00:01:01.600The White Fox Talking podcast is sponsored by Energy Impact.
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00:01:03.600Hello, Charlie.
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00:01:04.239How are you?
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00:01:05.120I'm fine, thank you.
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00:01:05.599How are you?
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00:01:07.359I'm I'm struggling with a bit of a cold.
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00:01:07.680Yeah.
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00:01:08.719But it's okay for you.
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00:01:13.359You're that for your start at the fire, say we should probably say hello to Craig.
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00:01:14.400Good evening, Craig.
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00:01:18.400Yeah, oh yeah, and thank you to Craig for setting this up because he he put us.
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00:01:19.920Oh Craig Christopher, yeah.
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00:01:20.799Of course.
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00:01:22.239Good evening, Craig Christan.
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00:01:22.799Yeah, yeah.
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00:01:26.000So thank you Tim for setting this up and bringing it to our attention.
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00:01:31.519It's always good when you know you've got that personal connection rather than just someone reaching out to someone.
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00:01:32.799So yeah, thank you to Craig.
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00:01:41.439Could you give us a short introduction about yourself and then we'll get into about the book and how you why it's come to existence, yeah.
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00:01:50.319Well, my name is Martin, as we just said, on the 26th of April 2019, my sister and a partner committed suicide.
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00:01:52.239Sorry, died by suicide.
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00:01:55.760You aren't supposed to say committed suicide anymore, died by suicide.
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00:02:01.519And my parents and myself unfortunately found both bodies two days later.
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00:02:06.560It was the uh agony and pain and shock and horror was unimaginable.
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00:02:14.719And I went into a really deep state of shock, horror, anxiety, which lasted at least a year.
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00:02:19.039Obviously, my mum and dad both had the same problems as I did.
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00:02:27.039Unfortunately, because we were so close, me and my mum and dad, we weren't able to comfort each other because we were all going through the same horror.
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00:02:31.599What did help me was a year after the tragedy, COVID happened.
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00:02:45.599I had a little business, so I'm um I could take three months off work with a small grant from the government, and I I went running every single day, sat in the garden, read, and it really helped the um anguish lift.
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00:03:07.120Not long after that, I started going town to the some horse riding stables where my sister's horse was still living, called Rosie, and I started looking after the horse and looking after other horses down at the stables, just basically grooming, cleaning the fields, you know, uh scraping up all the horse book, all this hay, being outside in the open air with like 20 horses, and it that also helped.
00:03:07.199 -->
00:03:12.319And not long after that, I started writing ideas down, which helped me recover.
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00:03:17.439What a a friend of mine called David Harlan, he said, write everything down.
00:03:17.520 -->
00:03:20.240It helps relieve the pain incrementally.
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00:03:24.639You know, you don't realise it's helping at the time, but whatever you feel, write it down.
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00:03:41.039So I was writing things down initially in a in an A4 book, and then after a while I started writing notes on my phone, my mobile, my iPhone, and these notes eventually, over a long gestation period, turned into something looking a tiny bit like poems.
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00:03:53.919So I started working on these poems with the encouragement of a lot of friends, and over a couple of years I ended up with about 60, 60 odd shortish poems, which I decided to self-publish.
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00:03:55.840I got somebody to help me do the typing.
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00:04:00.159I got a great printer in Garth called Empire Books Plug.
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00:04:16.160I've published a couple of months ago 300 copies in Hardback, and all the profits of the book go to Suicide Prevention UK, SP UK, who uh if anybody's struggling out there, they're um somebody you really need to ring because they'll help.
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00:04:25.199And since the book got published in um I think it's probably September, I've sold about half the books, just over half the books, but I've managed to raise£5,000 so far, so it's a start.
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00:04:26.399That's um yeah.
00:04:26.879 -->
00:04:28.079I mean Is that too much?
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00:04:29.279No, that's not too much.
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00:04:31.360It's well I mean it's your story, isn't it?
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00:04:33.519And it's but I mean straight away it's like wow.
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00:04:51.040I mean I could go into detail over certain things if Well, I mean, it's it's how much you want to tell us, and I suppose we should say to anyone else out there, anyone listening out there, then obviously it's quite it knocks sort of not I mean you've we've spoken about this, and then it still knocks you back, doesn't it, to to hear that you discovered Well, what what actually happened on that morning?
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00:04:58.959I can remember going around to the house because we had a phone call saying Nancy hadn't been seen for two days and she lived in little cops behind Methley Park hospitals.
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00:05:02.959Copse is a place with about six or seven small houses, so all the everybody knew each other.
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00:05:06.720She hadn't been seen for two days, so my mother said, Can we go around?
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00:05:07.759We were worried.
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00:05:09.519So we went round.
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00:05:15.040A partner, I knew we had financial problems because I had a fish and chip shop and he had a couple of fish and chip shops.
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00:05:17.680So in that industry, you knew he was having problems.
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00:05:20.319So I was a bit worried about what might have happened.
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00:05:24.000I thought they might have done a runner because I knew he had financial problems.
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00:05:25.040So we went round.
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00:05:28.560I can remember it like it was yesterday, like a beautiful spring morning.
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00:05:37.839I was the first one out of the car, went to the house, tried the door, the door was open, and I knew then, I knew then something dreadful had happened.
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00:05:38.720I just felt it.
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00:05:40.480So I walked around that down the hall.
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00:05:42.879I've written a poem actually literally about this.
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00:05:47.759I walked down the hall, and on the floor in the kitchen there were six bowls of cat food which were all empty.
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00:05:52.319And then I went into the main hall because it was like a like a hall.
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00:05:57.600He had a large roof with a mezzanine level at the side, which had uh rails.
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00:06:04.879And I walked in and my sister was lying on the floor dead, and he was hanging from a blue tour rope right next to me.
00:06:04.959 -->
00:06:06.399I nearly jumped out of my skin.
00:06:06.639 -->
00:06:09.920I turned around, walked back, sort of started running back down the hall.
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00:06:13.519My mum and dad were coming in, and I was it was like a bad film.
00:06:13.839 -->
00:06:15.920You can't go in there, you can't go in there.
00:06:16.079 -->
00:06:18.079But my dad brushed past me and went in.
00:06:18.160 -->
00:06:20.000I managed to shepherd my mum out of the house.
00:06:20.079 -->
00:06:22.079I can remember it being brilliant, shunnshine.
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00:06:23.759It was like everything, it was unbelievable.
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00:06:27.839And I managed to ring the police, and it sounded like managed, I couldn't use my phone.
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00:06:35.839And then I went back inside and sort of got my dad out, and then we stood outside and the police came and then they corned it off the the building.
00:06:35.920 -->
00:06:38.800And then initially they thought it might be murder suicide.
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00:06:45.279Two days later they came back saying the ligature marks on my sister's neck were conductive to hanging knots.
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00:06:45.920Okay.
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00:06:49.839Unfortunately, this sounds dreadful, and I don't know if I should be saying this.
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00:06:52.879While we were there with the policeman, we went back in with the policeman.
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00:06:58.879We were in in the hall, the policeman found the suicide note, and the bodies were in the next room, and we're all weeping.
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00:07:00.079It was uncon it was dreadful.
00:07:00.160 -->
00:07:04.720And we're reading the suicide note, and a partner had written it.
00:07:04.959 -->
00:07:07.439What he did, he helped her hang herself.
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00:07:08.480She had she died.
00:07:08.720 -->
00:07:11.759He then went into the other room, wrote a letter, a suicide letter.
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00:07:13.600I saw it, all the money's gone, we're finished.
00:07:13.759 -->
00:07:17.120Nancy looks as beautiful in death as she did in life.
00:07:17.279 -->
00:07:18.399It was unbelievable.
00:07:18.560 -->
00:07:24.399I mean, I felt like going back in the room and pulling off the wall and stamping on his face.
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00:07:26.720The anger was so dreadful.
00:07:27.040 -->
00:07:39.120But what we should have done in retrospect, we should have approached the police and said this is an assisted suicide, which would have changed everything regarding the will, which caused up more much more lit problems later on.
00:07:39.199 -->
00:07:40.639But the police didn't do anything about it.
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00:07:45.759Once they'd re once they'd found out he hadn't physically strangled her, they dropped the case.
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00:07:48.160So and we've had to live with that ever since.
00:07:48.319 -->
00:07:57.600It sounds ridiculous because what happened was when we got the will about three weeks, four weeks later, we found out that everything that Nancy had.
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00:08:03.199At the time we thought she had nothing because they'd died by suicide, because he had huge financial problems.
00:08:03.360 -->
00:08:11.360He'd gone from having two fish and chip shops, a deli, supposed to be sorted centre, all sorts of places to virtually nothing.
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00:08:12.800We don't know how we'd lost it.
00:08:12.879 -->
00:08:15.279But we looked at the will and we weren't mentioned in it.
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00:08:19.920At the time, like I said, we we weren't particularly bothered about money because we didn't think there was anything.
00:08:20.000 -->
00:08:23.360But my mum was upset because we weren't mentioned at all.
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00:08:29.759His daughter, and I'm gonna name her Emma Storer, she was she became the executor of the will.
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00:08:33.600All done by him because he coerced my sister into changing a will.
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00:08:39.360And if when we read the will, we could basically see him behind us saying, You've got to change this, you've got to change that.
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00:08:43.360Everything in the will went to his daughter from a previous marriage.
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00:08:48.559And I spoke to his daughter because she was the executor, and she says, Oh Martin, I don't want anything to do with this.
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00:08:50.320My dad killed your sister.
00:08:50.639 -->
00:08:50.799Okay.
00:08:51.039 -->
00:08:58.399Anyway, a year later, at the inquest, we found out that there was a at least some there was definitely 35 grand in a pension.
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00:09:00.480There might have been another 70 in St.
00:09:00.639 -->
00:09:01.519James's Close.
00:09:01.679 -->
00:09:02.000Is it St.
00:09:02.080 -->
00:09:02.879James's Close?
00:09:03.120 -->
00:09:07.759Yeah, they're uh they're uh some kind of broker, I think, you know, investment company.
00:09:07.919 -->
00:09:18.559And to cut a long story short, she got all the money, which still sticks in my throat because she at the inquest, I said to me, You're gonna have to ask Emma what's going on with all this money.
00:09:18.720 -->
00:09:21.600So my mum asked her, she says, Oh, it's it's not been sorted yet.
00:09:21.679 -->
00:09:27.679So I actually rang the what they call a legal and general a couple of days later, and they said, Oh, she got the money four months ago.
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00:09:28.159Right.
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00:09:36.720Now, this is like a side issue of the main thing, but it just it just added to the to the to the horror and the nastiness of it all.
00:09:36.879 -->
00:09:42.399Because I didn't really know any of Nancy's friends at this time, but afterwards I heard all sorts of stories about control.
00:09:42.720 -->
00:09:42.960Yeah.
00:09:43.120 -->
00:09:43.519Control.
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00:09:44.399It controlled her.
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00:09:47.919They've been together 20 odd years, and it just doesn't happen overnight.
00:09:48.000 -->
00:09:51.120It's an incremental thing that goes happens over a long period of time.
00:09:51.279 -->
00:09:58.480But and by the time this had happened, uh, she dared go out when he didn't tell her, and you know, and she had to be home when he was home.
00:09:58.559 -->
00:09:59.840And we didn't know any of this.
00:10:00.000 -->
00:10:01.919And it all came out after she died.
00:10:02.159 -->
00:10:04.159I mean, we recently spoke to Carol, didn't it?
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00:10:09.759Carol Whitley, and her story was her told was shocking as well of being controlled by a partner.
00:10:09.840 -->
00:10:10.000Yeah.
00:10:10.480 -->
00:10:11.120Decisions.
00:10:11.279 -->
00:10:17.039I mean, she managed to turn it into her bravery and a mindset and turn it into a learning experience.
00:10:17.120 -->
00:10:19.519But obviously, Nancy didn't get that chance, did she?
00:10:19.600 -->
00:10:23.600So Well, it's a funny thing because he was always fairly withdrawn.
00:10:23.759 -->
00:10:25.200He didn't really have many friends.
00:10:25.360 -->
00:10:40.240Nancy was outgoing, she had lots of friends, and his first action of control was when he'd bought he he got a bit a redundancy payment from a Kaleon in Batley paint company, and he invested the money in in a in a fishing chip shop and he started making decent money.
00:10:40.399 -->
00:10:46.159First thing he said to Nancy was, You don't you can pack your job in now, you don't have to work, which is can be a form of control.
00:10:46.399 -->
00:10:49.039So because he looks after the purse strings from then on.
00:10:49.120 -->
00:10:58.399It doesn't have to be, but it appears over time, you know, it hams in like such small ways, it hams to lots of people.
00:10:58.559 -->
00:11:06.320I mean, we I was told by one of her friends that she'd she'd told her that they'd lost everything about a week before they died.
00:11:06.480 -->
00:11:07.840And you know, this is another thing.
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00:11:12.960If if I'd have known these friends at the time and they'd have told me, it could have all been different.
00:11:13.200 -->
00:11:15.440But anyway, I don't know what else to say about that.
00:11:15.600 -->
00:11:17.200I would suspect there's quite a lot of anger.
00:11:17.440 -->
00:11:18.720Well, it's funny as you say that.
00:11:18.879 -->
00:11:22.240There's anger still towards him and his daughter.
00:11:22.399 -->
00:11:23.360I'll never forgive them.
00:11:24.000 -->
00:11:26.559I think forgiving is overrated sometimes.
00:11:26.720 -->
00:11:28.240I don't want to forgive them.
00:11:28.320 -->
00:11:29.440And and I'm fine with that.
00:11:29.600 -->
00:11:40.879There was huge anger at the time, but over the last few years, after I started uh writing things down, after after the uh COVID thing, like I say, the grief slowly lifted off me.
00:11:41.039 -->
00:11:49.840I've I haven't got in front of me, there's a but there's a famous Buddhist quote saying, I think you think that you have to go through something absolutely dreadful in life.
00:11:50.000 -->
00:11:53.519Reach rock bottom to uh to find out who you really are.
00:11:53.759 -->
00:12:08.159And I'll quote somebody else, Nick Cave, he wrote a fantastic book, co-wrote a fantastic book called Faith, Open Carnage, which uh because his son jumped off a cliff when he was high on LSD, and the book's about his grief and getting over his grief.
00:12:08.399 -->
00:12:16.960And I could relate directly to the book, but what Cave says in the book is that you can come out of it happier in the most bizarre circumstances.
00:12:17.120 -->
00:12:20.399I think you just there's something changes inside you.
00:12:20.559 -->
00:12:30.480The joy of living really comes out, and and having like pleasure in simple things, and it's I know it's a dreadful cliche, but but in my case, it's true.
00:12:30.720 -->
00:12:38.480It's it's the absolutely worst thing that has happened to me by a country mile, but it's it's been it's been the making of me as a as a man.
00:12:38.720 -->
00:12:42.159Yeah, I suppose that um appreciation of, like you say, the simple things.
00:12:42.240 -->
00:12:42.399Yeah.
00:12:42.639 -->
00:12:48.480I mean, I probably wouldn't have got back into the outdoors as much as I did, and there's nothing I love better than going out walking.
00:12:48.559 -->
00:12:48.720Yeah.
00:12:48.879 -->
00:12:53.360And we mentioned that before that so and you mentioned it just then that you know, this just getting out.
00:12:53.519 -->
00:12:53.759Yeah.
00:12:53.919 -->
00:12:59.120And which it would be one of the simple things that we forget because we get bogged down trying to win money to pay his taxes.
00:12:59.360 -->
00:13:03.840You just I mean, just get you don't need anything, you can just get some walking boots and and walk.
00:13:04.000 -->
00:13:11.840And like I said, uh, when you go out for a walk, after about five or ten minutes, you can feel all the stresses and strains sort of lifting.
00:13:12.559 -->
00:13:14.799You know, you don't need a gym fee, you can just do it.
00:13:14.960 -->
00:13:27.039Like I say, I still go down to the stables and uh I still um clean all the muck up and clean all the hair and uh I mentioned it in uh in quite a few other poems, being down there with the horses, the birds.
00:13:27.200 -->
00:13:30.080There's a pair of buzzards that nest in the wood.
00:13:30.159 -->
00:13:34.080And seeing them in springtime and summertime, it's it's just wonderful.
00:13:34.240 -->
00:13:35.759And it's like I say, it costs nothing.
00:13:35.840 -->
00:13:37.200It's completely changed me as a person.
00:13:37.440 -->
00:13:41.279Don't want to take you back too much, but you said you struggled with anxiety.
00:13:41.519 -->
00:13:41.759Yeah.
00:13:42.000 -->
00:13:42.240Oh.
00:13:42.480 -->
00:13:43.279At least for a year.
00:13:43.440 -->
00:13:43.600Yeah.
00:13:43.759 -->
00:13:54.240Um well what I mean the anxiety what happened initially, the day after we found them, we were told by the police that we'd have to sort out an undertaker.
00:13:54.480 -->
00:13:58.559So the day after we found the bodies, we had the undertaker round.
00:13:58.799 -->
00:14:06.799And I was around at my mum and dad's, we all sat there like three zombies, and I arranged, you know, the the arrangements for the we didn't have a funeral.
00:14:06.960 -->
00:14:14.639We decided not to, under the circumstances, but we put uh our ashes in a in a beautiful place to put the stables and all the friends went, which was lovely.
00:14:14.799 -->
00:14:15.840And I was in shock.
00:14:15.919 -->
00:14:23.120And the shock, I went to I went to work the day after that, and God knows what the customers thought when they were coming into the shop because I were telling them what had happened.
00:14:23.360 -->
00:14:24.879It was just unbelievable.
00:14:25.120 -->
00:14:28.799After a couple of weeks, the shock sort of wore off.
00:14:29.120 -->
00:14:35.519I sank into like this extreme grief, which like involved incredible anxiety.
00:14:35.679 -->
00:14:36.960I'll give you one example.
00:14:37.200 -->
00:14:47.279It sounds pathetic, but in the fish and chip shop, uh I used to when I shut the shop, I'd turn all the machines off, make sure the shutters were shut, do it systematically so I wouldn't forget.
00:14:47.440 -->
00:14:49.360Anyway, this Saturday night I went home.
00:14:49.440 -->
00:14:54.879I live about 15 miles from the chip shop, and I was having my tea about nine o'clock because I used to be home till eight.
00:14:55.039 -->
00:14:57.440And I thought, did I turn that extractor fan off?
00:14:57.519 -->
00:15:01.759So I rang the guy who lives upstairs who could have heard it, and he says, Yeah, yeah, I can't hear it, Martin.
00:15:01.840 -->
00:15:02.720It's definitely turned off.
00:15:02.879 -->
00:15:03.919So I said, Great.
00:15:04.080 -->
00:15:05.039And then I rang him again.
00:15:05.120 -->
00:15:09.600I said, Phil, can you just nip outside to see if you can hear anything coming out of the extractor phone?
00:15:09.840 -->
00:15:13.039So he said, came back, said Martin, it's definitely turned off.
00:15:13.200 -->
00:15:16.480And then I drove all the way back into Leeds to see for myself.
00:15:16.639 -->
00:15:20.080And I can remember driving, I drove up Scotall Road on the way home.
00:15:20.159 -->
00:15:24.960I drove down Meanwood Road and all where all the bars are, and it was nice and sunny.
00:15:25.120 -->
00:15:29.360I was thinking, all those people out there enjoying myself and I'm going mad.
00:15:29.519 -->
00:15:32.080And it lasted for it lasted for months.
00:15:32.240 -->
00:15:36.879I'd wake up every night about three in the morning, shaking violently.
00:15:37.440 -->
00:15:38.720Almost the same every single night.
00:15:38.799 -->
00:15:43.919And then I'd get in the shower and I'd be retching in the shower, wretching on the way to work.
00:15:44.159 -->
00:15:47.679And throughout the day, it seemed to get slightly better.
00:15:47.840 -->
00:15:50.799So by the time I got home in an evening, I almost felt normal.
00:15:50.960 -->
00:15:57.039And then I'd wake up the next morning in the middle of the night, and it was back to that, and it went on for months.
00:15:57.200 -->
00:16:07.600Now I was very lucky that I had a friend, I've mentioned him before, David Harlan, is involved with uh is the national director of uh mental help.
00:16:07.759 -->
00:16:35.840I used to go out with his sister a long time ago, and he reached out to me and I'd ring him whenever I needed to talk to him on an evening just to bring me down, just to so I could ask him questions because I was having this reoccurring fantasy which I've turned into a poem where I was hovering in the room where the bodies were, and they were both alive in my fantasy, and I watched them hang themselves, and I had that fantasy a thousand times, and I've said to David, what on earth I'm what's going on in my mind?
00:16:35.919 -->
00:16:36.960Am I going insane?
00:16:37.120 -->
00:16:43.039And he says it's your mind trying to see if you can handle the uh the uh you know the grief.
00:16:43.279 -->
00:16:54.639But it went on for it feeled to it seemed to go on forever, and you know yourself when you've when something like that's happened, you can't it's like when you've had an injury, all you can focus on is the injury, but when the injury goes away, you forget about it.
00:16:55.039 -->
00:17:03.759So there's great moments what the day it happened, I can remember it like it was this morning, but lots of other things I can't remember at all.
00:17:04.079 -->
00:17:05.200Yeah, it becomes a blur.
00:17:05.359 -->
00:17:05.920Yeah, yeah.
00:17:06.319 -->
00:17:09.200Yeah, I think that I don't know, that that they've just said about injuries.
00:17:09.279 -->
00:17:10.720I think I've broken a fair few things.
00:17:10.799 -->
00:17:28.799I'd had a few injuries, but the PTSD, that just goes goes on and on and on and on, and and that's because the brain, for my understanding, a shock like you've had there, and I mean if there's any professionals listening to this that want to send us a message and let us know, then my understanding that the shock there is it it rewires your brain.
00:17:28.880 -->
00:17:31.440It's it's it rewires your brain, mind and everything.
00:17:31.599 -->
00:17:34.960Yeah, well, it was I can't quite believe that it happened to me now.
00:17:35.039 -->
00:17:36.640It feels like it happened to a different person.
00:17:36.880 -->
00:17:41.039Well, you are a different person now, if you don't mind me saying so from what you were before because you've gone through that.
00:17:41.119 -->
00:17:42.960Yeah, yeah, and uh and a better person.
00:17:43.119 -->
00:17:49.440I can remember speaking to David about it, and uh I said, uh Will I be suffering from am I suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder?
00:17:49.519 -->
00:17:51.440He says, No, you you're in shock.
00:17:51.680 -->
00:17:54.799And like your problems, mine haven't been the same.
00:17:54.960 -->
00:17:55.680I don't know why.
00:17:55.839 -->
00:17:58.000It's just that it's just the way it's worked for me.
00:17:58.160 -->
00:18:02.319I was very lucky to get to get the time off for the COVID thing.
00:18:02.400 -->
00:18:05.440I know it was dreadful for lots of people, but it worked great for me.
00:18:05.519 -->
00:18:15.119I can vividly remember what running around Ardsley, running down this um old uh bridal path with all the blossom things and it was just great.
00:18:15.279 -->
00:18:28.559Then I'd sit in the garden and I'd read, and it went, I did the same thing for three months, and then I went back to work, and luckily for me, because people couldn't go to the football, they couldn't go to the uh cinema, couldn't go for a restaurant, they came to the chipping.
00:18:28.640 -->
00:18:28.960Yeah, yeah.
00:18:29.119 -->
00:18:30.000So business was great.
00:18:30.319 -->
00:18:30.720At that time.
00:18:30.880 -->
00:18:31.119Yeah.
00:18:31.599 -->
00:18:38.160So business was great, and it's like I say, I uh I've been very, very, very lucky, and I don't I don't know how I've got over it.
00:18:38.319 -->
00:18:38.720Do you know what?
00:18:38.880 -->
00:18:46.799I mean, and and I'm again no professional, but it sounds like you've sort of done uh back through my thing, it was like you just got that man up and all this sort of shit.
00:18:46.880 -->
00:18:55.759And because mine was quite public, there wasn't really It's one of them things where you just go out to the pub and we spoke about you'd giving up alcohol some years ago anyway.
00:18:56.160 -->
00:18:56.720You don't mind my saying.
00:18:56.960 -->
00:18:57.759No, I don't mind at all.
00:18:57.920 -->
00:19:09.759So alcohol became my my crutch without a doubt, and staying out late because I was scared of going to sleep, because you know, similar to you having them sort of images while you're sleeping, I were having flashbacks when I was in bed and I won't sleep in.
00:19:09.839 -->
00:19:17.519And it's just this perpetual cycle of flashbacks, nightmares, night terrors, which I had for years and years, which you can't control because you're asleep, you know what I mean?
00:19:17.680 -->
00:19:28.880And then being tired, which then makes it worse to do anything else, then diet drops off, and then going out to drink to get rid of it, to try and break away from the memories, but which then enhances the mental health illness.
00:19:29.039 -->
00:19:30.559Yeah, it's like a vicious circle, isn't it?
00:19:30.799 -->
00:19:31.119Yeah.
00:19:31.279 -->
00:19:36.640This thing of you, you you going out walking, and then obviously this going to see uh Rosie.
00:19:36.880 -->
00:19:45.920My sister's ashes are in a little makeshift grave in the orchard at the stables, which the owner, Anne, said you you can put her actually ashes here.
00:19:46.079 -->
00:19:47.440It's lovely, it's a beautiful place.
00:19:47.519 -->
00:19:51.279And she w it's a horrible thing, sad thing to say, but she'd have loved being there.
00:19:51.359 -->
00:19:51.599Right.
00:19:51.680 -->
00:19:59.359And me and my mum used to go down, I used to take my mum down to to I'd talk to Anne while my mum went up to you know sit with Nancy.
00:19:59.519 -->
00:20:02.960And Anne one day said there were short staffed or something, you know.
00:20:03.119 -->
00:20:08.720It's it's a livery stable, so people keep their horses there, and there's a few old horses where the orders aren't there anymore.
00:20:08.880 -->
00:20:12.880So I just offered to um initially one day a week to go down and help out.
00:20:13.039 -->
00:20:14.160And then I loved it.
00:20:14.319 -->
00:20:18.640And I would go down a couple of times a week and I'd uh look after Rosie.
00:20:18.720 -->
00:20:26.160I'd I'd clean her stables out, I'd groom her, take her for a walk, then I'd put her in a field, then I'd groom a couple of other horses, and it was fantastic and it cathartic.
00:20:26.400 -->
00:20:33.599And and like I say, one of my poems, Plug Plug, it uh it brought seemed to bring me closer to my sister.
00:20:33.759 -->
00:20:39.039It really did, you know, and it it it was wonderful, and it was all pure luck.
00:20:39.279 -->
00:20:42.079Yeah, well we've had um Grace Olsen on a couple of times, haven't we?
00:20:42.160 -->
00:20:43.440I'm talking about animal therapy.
00:20:43.599 -->
00:20:54.720I mean, she's took took animals in, rescue animals, and then found out that basically, you know, people bond with these animals, and animals bond with them, you know, because I mean the animals aren't judgmental unless you're an arse to them, you know what I mean.
00:20:54.799 -->
00:20:58.880So you think that sort of thing worked for you or having that bond and it bringing you closer to Nancy?
00:20:59.359 -->
00:21:03.680Yeah, well, yes, it brought me closer to Nancy because uh she loved the horse.
00:21:03.839 -->
00:21:09.359One of the shocks of her death was that she I mean, she loved the horse more than she loved me.
00:21:09.519 -->
00:21:12.079And I've said this before, but I didn't mind that.
00:21:12.160 -->
00:21:16.000You know, she was incredibly close to the horse, and I I thought, how could she leave a horse behind?
00:21:16.079 -->
00:21:22.480You know, it was so and the horse, and if if any of the girls from the stables ever heard this, Rosie was a difficult horse.
00:21:22.720 -->
00:21:27.359I said in one of my poems, I I grew to love the horse, and the horse sort of tolerated me.
00:21:27.440 -->
00:21:29.759But we we bonded and we we did get close.
00:21:29.839 -->
00:21:39.920And there's other horses down there, and unfortunately, Rosie had to get put down about two and a half, could three years, could three years ago, because she was 30 years old, and that was devastating.
00:21:40.000 -->
00:21:41.680Uh it was really, really, really sad.
00:21:41.759 -->
00:21:44.079And I thought I wouldn't get over that, but you do.
00:21:44.319 -->
00:21:48.799But uh I like I say I'm down there regularly, and it's just it's just nice.
00:21:48.960 -->
00:21:50.559I mean, not just the horse bonding.
00:21:50.720 -->
00:21:53.519I mean I I mean basically I'm shoveling shit for a couple of hours.
00:21:53.680 -->
00:21:55.759It's good for you, it's good for the soul, you know.
00:21:55.839 -->
00:21:58.079You get outside doing some physical work.
00:21:58.240 -->
00:21:59.440I'd recommend it to anybody.
00:22:00.160 -->
00:22:04.079Is another thing if you were if you thought he's lucky that he could go to a livery stable.
00:22:04.240 -->
00:22:14.720I'm sure anybody could find a livery stable local to them, and I'm sure if they rang their owners up, you fancy somebody working for free, we'll we'll we'll do we'll do some labouring for free.
00:22:14.799 -->
00:22:17.519I'm sure they'd let you volunteering is always appreciated, isn't it?
00:22:17.839 -->
00:22:18.000Yeah.
00:22:18.079 -->
00:22:23.519So it's not that like I say, walking and doing these things at the stables, it hasn't cost me anything.
00:22:23.759 -->
00:22:25.920But it's given you sort of Oh, it's given me everything.
00:22:26.079 -->
00:22:28.720It's given me everything, and I'll I'll c I'll keep doing it.
00:22:28.880 -->
00:22:29.119Yeah.
00:22:29.279 -->
00:22:39.279I think that's the theme that runs through that a lot of what we do with the mental health side and people recovering or learning to cope with things is to find these simple things that have helped them cope.
00:22:39.359 -->
00:22:39.680Yeah.
00:22:39.839 -->
00:22:45.920Rather than this idea, which is a Western idea that we have to go out and spend fortunes to to get something to work, you know what I mean?
00:22:46.160 -->
00:22:49.680And also this the idea of simple fix of going to the doctors and getting a tablet.
00:22:49.759 -->
00:22:49.920Yeah.
00:22:50.079 -->
00:22:50.559You know what I mean?
00:22:50.640 -->
00:22:52.400It's often, well, do you need to have that tablet?
00:22:52.480 -->
00:22:53.440Because there's going to be an effect.
00:22:53.519 -->
00:23:05.519And I'm not knocking anyone that has been prescribed anything, but maybe there is something that you can do in addition, such as exercise, look after your diet, get outside, go hug hug a tree like I do.
00:23:05.759 -->
00:23:12.079Well, I I read somewhere last year actually hugging a tree physically does do something because there's something in the tree.
00:23:12.160 -->
00:23:15.359It actually Well it connects you connects you when it connects you to the nature.
00:23:16.960 -->
00:23:18.720And it's that appreciation of nature.
00:23:18.960 -->
00:23:19.519Yeah, yeah.
00:23:19.759 -->
00:23:22.400Didn't didn't you say there's some chemical exchange going on?
00:23:22.880 -->
00:23:27.759Well, fully enough, you can tell that I'm full of code and I I should bring in a tree.
00:23:27.920 -->
00:23:29.279I've got not the tree.
00:23:29.440 -->
00:23:33.440I've I've bought I bought bottles of phyton sides, which are tri tree chemicals.
00:23:33.519 -->
00:23:38.160It's the natural ozones that come off chemicals, but it they trigger your natural killer cells anyway.
00:23:38.319 -->
00:23:48.720But obviously they the trees signal to each other and signal, they put these chemicals out to either protect themselves from insects and and trigger responses in other trees.
00:23:48.799 -->
00:23:54.160But when we're out there, we're breathing them in, and it's a stress regulator, it down regulates our own stress.
00:23:54.240 -->
00:23:55.519So there's tons of stuff in it.
00:23:55.599 -->
00:24:01.680That's I ended up doing the nature therapy practitioner, of course, just to see, you know, I'd be interested in doing stuff like that myself.
00:24:01.839 -->
00:24:05.680Yeah, it wasn't just me going out into the mountains, and that was a focus.
00:24:05.759 -->
00:24:11.759That was a distraction from my original distraction, which was a disruptive influence of getting pissed every night.
00:24:11.839 -->
00:24:14.960So what I started doing was going out in the mountains, but you think, well, how does that work?
00:24:15.039 -->
00:24:21.759You know, then when I started reading the insurance, it's just being in these green spaces and just more time in these less stressful situations.
00:24:21.839 -->
00:24:26.880Because I'll be honest, standing in a nightclub full of PTSD is not a deregulator, you know what I mean?
00:24:26.960 -->
00:24:32.000It's heightening it, but because you've because you're half cut or whatever, then that's why you don't think about it.
00:24:32.160 -->
00:24:32.960But it's still going on.
00:24:33.279 -->
00:24:34.720So much going on with the with the brick.
00:24:34.960 -->
00:24:43.200Well, i in the summertime down at the stables, I get the uh job of rag warting with poisonous to horses, isn't it?
00:24:43.279 -->
00:24:46.079Yeah, it is, and it's even more poisonous when it's been cut and it's dried.
00:24:46.240 -->
00:24:52.720So I get the ragwarting shovel uh spade out, and I'll do it like an hour every every time I go down with a wheelbarrow.
00:24:52.880 -->
00:24:58.720So I find myself out in these big fields, and there's a wood to the bottom of the fields, and like I say, there's the buzzers flying over.
00:24:58.880 -->
00:25:09.200In springtime, the uh all thorn bushes are in bloom, and I'm by myself, and there's nobody for a mile around, and it's absolutely lovely, and I'm looking forward to doing it.
00:25:09.279 -->
00:25:12.559And the girls that they think, hey, what's what's up with them enjoying?
00:25:12.720 -->
00:25:15.119Who never bought me a ragwalk t-shirt?
00:25:15.440 -->
00:25:16.319So do you know what?
00:25:16.640 -->
00:25:18.960I think in a situation like that, I I won't get anything done.
00:25:19.039 -->
00:25:20.640I'd just be stood watching buzzards.
00:25:20.880 -->
00:25:22.400Yeah, you do you feel yeah, yeah.
00:25:22.480 -->
00:25:22.799I do.
00:25:22.960 -->
00:25:23.440Well, I do.
00:25:23.519 -->
00:25:25.519I mean, there's I've got no nowhere to be.
00:25:25.599 -->
00:25:35.200Uh so I I'll I mean, the the there's a couple of them and they tend to perch on a particular it's like an old um double wooden what they call it, where wires go across.
00:25:35.279 -->
00:25:36.240And they use it as a perch.
00:25:36.319 -->
00:25:40.240They fly out of the woods and they fly and they sit on this huge perch.
00:25:40.400 -->
00:25:43.839And when they come across, it's just just marvellous to watch them.
00:25:44.240 -->
00:25:47.119Shall we shall we move on to the poetry?
00:25:47.359 -->
00:25:47.759Ooh.
00:25:48.079 -->
00:25:50.480Can I can I just jump in here before we move on?
00:25:50.720 -->
00:25:51.200Yeah, no.
00:25:51.519 -->
00:25:53.680I really have to ask, how are your parents?
00:25:53.920 -->
00:25:56.720My dad died two hours two and a half years ago.
00:25:57.039 -->
00:26:03.599Unfortunately, he had a he had a nasty fall, got dislocated shoulder, went into hospital, didn't come out.
00:26:03.759 -->
00:26:05.839And my mother, I mean they're both elderly.
00:26:06.000 -->
00:26:07.279My mum's 92 now.
00:26:07.440 -->
00:26:10.160She suffers from short-term memory loss.
00:26:10.400 -->
00:26:13.759And I I'm not an official carer, but I sort of look after her.
00:26:13.839 -->
00:26:15.039I'm down there every day.
00:26:15.200 -->
00:26:16.079It's a funny thing.
00:26:16.240 -->
00:26:21.279My father always thought that Nigel, that's his name, killed my sister.
00:26:21.359 -->
00:26:24.319And he wouldn't have anything, he wouldn't hear anything else.
00:26:24.480 -->
00:26:30.079And but I think my dad thought he physically killed her, but he he mentally killed her, he really did.
00:26:30.640 -->
00:26:33.200If I think over time he talked her into doing it.
00:26:33.359 -->
00:26:34.799I know he talked her into doing it.
00:26:35.039 -->
00:26:42.079And it sounds preposterous because I mean, I was going down every day to see them just after it happened, and we I I lived really close to them.
00:26:42.160 -->
00:26:47.279And like I said earlier, we couldn't really console each other because we were all going through this kind of horror.
00:26:47.440 -->
00:26:50.559And I, if I'm gonna be truthful, I don't really know how they coped.
00:26:50.799 -->
00:26:56.720I can remember we were being when on the day it happened, coming back from the I was I was interviewed by a policeman.
00:26:56.799 -->
00:26:59.680There were about ten policemen there, an ambulance there.
00:26:59.839 -->
00:27:04.799This was at the house, and I was taken into the back of like a meat wagon and uh interviewed.
00:27:05.039 -->
00:27:06.880And um I've been there anyway.
00:27:07.279 -->
00:27:11.359And he was asking me all these questions, then he stopped the interview and it says, Can we do it at your house?
00:27:11.599 -->
00:27:13.920I think they must have been doing something with the bodies then.
00:27:14.000 -->
00:27:15.279But at the time he says, Yeah.
00:27:15.440 -->
00:27:18.000So we drove home, me and my mum and dad.
00:27:18.160 -->
00:27:19.759I drove home, drove us home.
00:27:19.839 -->
00:27:25.759And my mum was sitting in the back car back of the car going, I can't believe it, I can't believe it, I can't believe it, I can't believe it.
00:27:25.920 -->
00:27:27.440And it went on forever.
00:27:27.599 -->
00:27:29.920I thought, oh, she's completely lost her mind.
00:27:30.079 -->
00:27:31.200Understandably.
00:27:31.440 -->
00:27:34.720You can't there's nothing, you can't imagine anything worse.
00:27:34.880 -->
00:27:44.240I mean, I don't want to when you take up talk about people losing other pe losing m family members or or whatever, it's always dreadful and suicide's dreadful.
00:27:44.319 -->
00:27:50.799But actually, finding the bodies was added I'm not saying it was worse, but it added to the burden sort of thing.
00:27:50.880 -->
00:27:54.720I mean, it just talking to you, lads, now, I'm back there and I'm talking to you.
00:27:54.880 -->
00:27:55.839Yeah, we're gonna say that.
00:27:56.000 -->
00:28:00.720I mean, that's for me, that's you know, it's it takes you back there.
00:28:00.880 -->
00:28:02.559For me, that were that PTSD thing.
00:28:02.960 -->
00:28:03.359You know what I mean?
00:28:03.440 -->
00:28:07.920Even though I mean you've said you've said shock, your brain goes back there and it's them memories are fresh.
00:28:08.000 -->
00:28:12.240I was chatted before this as situations that I couldn't handle.
00:28:12.400 -->
00:28:28.880Then I've had to go back into that, I mean, 20, what were that, 23, 24 years later, then it's like go back into EMDR, eye movement desensitisation remedy, so that I could actually cope with them because them them memories were triggering emotions, and them emotions were basically anger and violence.
00:28:29.440 -->
00:28:33.359It's it's strange how I I didn't go down that that road.
00:28:33.599 -->
00:28:43.359I've got to tell you, I mean, I had suicidal thoughts 20 times a day, and I'm not exaggerating yet, and and I thought about every way to kill myself.
00:28:43.519 -->
00:28:50.400I knew I wouldn't because I just I knew subconsciously that I wouldn't because I didn't want to put my pants through what they'd just gone through.
00:28:50.559 -->
00:28:56.000But I live in a little semi, and the number of times I just thought I could open that window and just jump out.
00:28:56.160 -->
00:29:04.160But it sounds pathetic, but the front gardens concrete, and I thought, wouldn't it be great if I jumped out and broke my neck and I'm still alive?
00:29:04.400 -->
00:29:04.640Do you know?
00:29:05.440 -->
00:29:06.079Worst case, in it.
00:29:06.160 -->
00:29:07.440Yeah, well that's how you feel, innit?
00:29:07.599 -->
00:29:08.400That'd be worst case in it.
00:29:08.799 -->
00:29:16.160Honestly, I I I've sort of put that thought away because I don't think about it anymore, but I did, I was suicidal.
00:29:16.240 -->
00:29:19.920And speaking to David about it again, he said it's natural to feel this way.
00:29:20.079 -->
00:29:20.240Yeah.
00:29:20.400 -->
00:29:20.960It's normal.
00:29:21.440 -->
00:29:21.920Which helped.
00:29:22.079 -->
00:29:33.440Yeah, so I suppose for anyone out there that has experienced a loved one or known of anyone that have taken their own lives, then you're you're far more at risk of taking your own lives yourself.
00:29:33.599 -->
00:29:39.680I know I know I've gone through that anyway, because of friends that I've lost, and you just think But then because of my own situation.
00:29:39.839 -->
00:29:40.640Yeah, I mean.
00:29:40.799 -->
00:29:42.160So dare me.
00:29:42.400 -->
00:29:47.359But on a but on a positive thing, you've got to, you know, it will get better.
00:29:47.599 -->
00:29:49.119It will get better.
00:29:49.440 -->
00:29:56.079Yeah, it seemed do you know what at the time or I mean, sat here now, 25 years on from mine.
00:29:56.240 -->
00:29:57.119Oh, now the 26.
00:29:57.279 -->
00:29:59.279You're thinking, yeah, well, time is a great healer and all this.
00:29:59.440 -->
00:30:00.640It's a cliche, but it's true.
00:30:00.799 -->
00:30:01.039It is.
00:30:01.200 -->
00:30:04.000But sometimes you're thinking, well, it's taking a bloody long time, is this?
00:30:04.160 -->
00:30:05.200You know, how much time have I got?
00:30:05.359 -->
00:30:10.880And you're like, well, I can't let it overshadow my life so much, which is which is why I went back for the E MDR thing.
00:30:10.960 -->
00:30:11.039Yeah.
00:30:11.279 -->
00:30:12.720Seba, let's move on to the book.
00:30:12.880 -->
00:30:13.839I've lost my camera.
00:30:14.000 -->
00:30:14.799So oh no.
00:30:15.039 -->
00:30:16.480But it's alright, my voice is still here.
00:30:16.640 -->
00:30:17.839Does that just mean it's me?
00:30:18.079 -->
00:30:18.559On camera.
00:30:19.039 -->
00:30:20.640The face the face off the podcast.
00:30:20.799 -->
00:30:23.440But we're still you've still got your uh you've still got your voice there.
00:30:24.160 -->
00:30:24.799My voice is here.
00:30:25.440 -->
00:30:26.400Everyone needs to see me.
00:30:26.480 -->
00:30:29.039Uh so you st I've got a face for radio.
00:30:29.200 -->
00:30:29.920Face for radio.
00:30:30.079 -->
00:30:32.079Well, everyone says that about us anyway, don't they?
00:30:32.160 -->
00:30:32.640You know what I mean?
00:30:32.720 -->
00:30:33.839Even my wife said that.
00:30:34.079 -->
00:30:36.079So the book Nancy.
00:30:36.240 -->
00:30:36.799Yes.
00:30:37.039 -->
00:30:38.240Which I've got a copy of.
00:30:38.400 -->
00:30:39.200Thank you, but well.
00:30:39.279 -->
00:30:40.000Yes, thank you.
00:30:40.079 -->
00:30:41.839And thank you for bringing it out, because thank you.
00:30:42.000 -->
00:30:48.000I think it shows that grief grief can be is it handled?
00:30:48.160 -->
00:30:49.200Is it coped with?
00:30:49.359 -->
00:30:51.359It's that how do you how do you term it?
00:30:51.440 -->
00:30:57.359Because people would it's a is it a tool for you to handle your grief, but also express your love for your sister that you've lost.
00:30:57.599 -->
00:30:58.400It's all those things.
00:30:58.480 -->
00:31:01.759I mean, initially, like I say, I wrote things down on an A4.
00:31:02.079 -->
00:31:11.519What David said to me was every day, if you you know, because I suffered uh one thing about going to work, and it I forgot I mentioned this early, I used I always got to work early, 7 30.
00:31:11.599 -->
00:31:13.200The shop didn't hold until 11 30.
00:31:13.359 -->
00:31:28.559I was I saw prepped in the kitchen, always took my time b because I like to do it, but I'd spent a long time by myself, and there were times in that kitchen where I felt like the walls were closing in on me, and and it was just I couldn't, it was just insane.
00:31:28.640 -->
00:31:33.359And I actually I rang Samaritans a couple of times myself just just to talk to people.
00:31:33.680 -->
00:31:35.440It's what's the word, is it rumination?
00:31:35.599 -->
00:31:37.200That's when when you're by yourself, yeah.
00:31:37.359 -->
00:31:40.240That's when these thoughts seem to me that your mind your mind starts talking.
00:31:40.480 -->
00:31:46.400Oh, I was thinking I was thinking the same ridiculous things all the time, but the thing is, Charlie, I can't remember what I was thinking now.
00:31:46.640 -->
00:31:49.920I mean, honestly, you you literally do go insane in a way.
00:31:50.000 -->
00:31:51.599I mean, I'd cry just like that.
00:31:51.759 -->
00:31:57.200You know, you know when you're gonna normally cry, you feel it welling up inside, it just dropped drop onto me.
00:31:57.279 -->
00:31:59.119It was it was unbelievable.
00:31:59.599 -->
00:32:07.839But uh back the book, initially David said, write down number one, grief, trauma, number two, money work, number three, relationships.
00:32:08.000 -->
00:32:12.319So you'd think, like, right, is there any have I got any thoughts about what's going on today?
00:32:12.480 -->
00:32:14.079You might have something, or or you might not.
00:32:14.240 -->
00:32:15.839Money work, how's business today?
00:32:15.920 -->
00:32:19.039Do I was this, you know, how am I gonna cope with this, blah blah blah.
00:32:19.279 -->
00:32:24.880Then relationships, like I might write something down about my mum and dad, and just write it down.
00:32:25.039 -->
00:32:37.759And if you had a like a problem, like I think one of the problems I used to call worry about whether my tenant, because I had a tenant with the shop, whether he'd pay his rent on time, so I'd write down money work, will Phil tip up for his rent this month?
00:32:38.000 -->
00:32:42.720And then and the answer would be Phil has never not tipped up for his rent this month.
00:32:42.799 -->
00:32:46.480And then you look at it on paper and you're thinking, why am I worrying about that?
00:32:46.640 -->
00:32:51.359Um because when you see physically see it down on paper, it it does make a difference.
00:32:51.519 -->
00:32:52.640It makes you think.
00:32:52.799 -->
00:33:00.319And over time, when it started the pain started to s subdite subside a bit, I uh I just started writing notes on my phone.
00:33:00.559 -->
00:33:03.920And a friend at work, Nick, he um he encouraged me.
00:33:04.079 -->
00:33:06.240Quite a few people encouraged me, do something with this.
00:33:06.319 -->
00:33:12.160But it initially it was just notes, which come on, do something with this, so that like I'd work on it.
00:33:12.240 -->
00:33:14.880Then I'd have and David Elt said, come on, do something with it.
00:33:14.960 -->
00:33:18.799And I'd show a few friends, and they said that it's got a bit of merit.
00:33:18.960 -->
00:33:19.519Right.
00:33:19.759 -->
00:33:20.480And uh yeah.
00:33:21.039 -->
00:33:26.960Can I just ask, at the time when the people you said friends said it's got merit, do you believe them or do you think they're trying to just pacify?
00:33:27.279 -->
00:33:30.079I don't know, I don't know, and I still don't know.
00:33:31.279 -->
00:33:32.960Well, you've sold a lot, aren't you, waves?
00:33:33.119 -->
00:33:34.400Well, it's done it's doing okay.
00:33:34.480 -->
00:33:38.240I've raised quite a few quid for I've raised£5,000 for SP UK.
00:33:38.400 -->
00:33:40.160So there's yeah, anyway, sorry to put you off.
00:33:40.480 -->
00:33:47.279No, but it took a good two years for the for the poems to uh sort of develop.
00:33:47.440 -->
00:33:56.799And initially there were poems that were about what happened on at the time, but because it tr it triggered a lot of childhood memories, thinking about my sister, thinking about my parents.
00:33:56.960 -->
00:34:00.960So there's quite a few poems in the book about things that happened to me earlier in my life.
00:34:01.200 -->
00:34:05.119There's a like there's a poem called Chin Pai, which is about uh I read that yesterday.
00:34:05.279 -->
00:34:07.039Yeah, yeah, that brought back memories of me.
00:34:07.279 -->
00:34:07.680Yeah, exactly.
00:34:07.920 -->
00:34:08.800Like me with my own kid.
00:34:08.880 -->
00:34:09.360Yeah, exactly.
00:34:09.519 -->
00:34:12.880I mean, my dad used to do that to me and my sister, and that's just that's just one example.
00:34:12.960 -->
00:34:18.320And there's the there's a poem called Harvey Stevens where it used to go bailing with my dad when I was a little lad at the local farm.
00:34:18.400 -->
00:34:21.039Now they're all personal memories to me.
00:34:21.199 -->
00:34:28.159So there's a bit of a there's a collection of all sorts of things in there, but basically they're all just my memories and thoughts.
00:34:28.320 -->
00:34:32.239And I I did it for I don't want to sound arrogant, I did it for myself.
00:34:32.400 -->
00:34:40.960And I have since I don't know if it's alright me mentioning this, I've uh just just quite recently, Bradford Literary Festival love the book.
00:34:41.119 -->
00:34:41.360Right.
00:34:41.519 -->
00:34:45.039And uh they want me to be on a poetry reading this dual line.
00:34:45.199 -->
00:34:50.559There's only three points on it, and what the lady was running the the uh thing said, they're honest.
00:34:50.800 -->
00:34:52.719So for nothing else, they're honest.
00:34:54.079 -->
00:34:54.320Great.
00:34:54.639 -->
00:35:03.440I mean, getting a bit of a I mean it's great that my friends, I mean I truly be the friends who have passed comment on a I respect their opinion.
00:35:03.679 -->
00:35:08.639And th I think most of them would be honest with me if I didn't reckon much to them.
00:35:08.960 -->
00:35:11.760But even even then I wouldn't really care.
00:35:11.920 -->
00:35:15.840You know, I honestly I've done it for myself and people say, Are you gonna write any more poems?
00:35:16.000 -->
00:35:26.960I don't think I am because it was cathartic doing what I did and it got something out, and the subject matter's that strong that I can't think of anything else to write about.
00:35:27.039 -->
00:35:30.159I mean, it sounds horrible, but my dad died while I was writing the poems.
00:35:30.400 -->
00:35:33.039So I ended writing about four poems about my dad.
00:35:33.199 -->
00:35:33.679Right.
00:35:33.840 -->
00:35:36.719And this I can't think of anything worth writing about.
00:35:36.880 -->
00:35:37.920But I'd not be bothered.
00:35:38.159 -->
00:35:38.880Well, you yeah, you can.
00:35:39.039 -->
00:35:41.840I mean, I suppose you can't now, but and if and if it's worked for you.
00:35:42.000 -->
00:35:45.760But I was just gonna bring you on because you said about the Bradford literary.
00:35:45.920 -->
00:35:46.159Yeah.
00:35:46.320 -->
00:35:48.480That Stephen Fry wrote one read one for you as well.
00:35:49.440 -->
00:35:50.559That must have brought some satisfaction.
00:35:50.719 -->
00:35:51.440It was unbelievable.
00:35:51.599 -->
00:35:54.639What happened when I at first, it's quite a funny story.
00:35:54.800 -->
00:35:58.880I was struggling with the poems because they're nearly all free verse.
00:35:59.199 -->
00:36:05.039And I bought a book called The Ode Less Travelled by Stephen Fry, which is about writing poems.
00:36:05.199 -->
00:36:06.639And it was a bit too.
00:36:06.960 -->
00:36:13.679I'm not I'm a bit like like you, you said so reading a- I thought, I can't, I don't understand what you're talking about, Miami Piomet, you know, blah blah blah.
00:36:13.840 -->
00:36:15.599And I thought, oh, sonnet.
00:36:16.320 -->
00:36:18.239And uh I thought I'll go my own way.
00:36:18.400 -->
00:36:27.440And then I wrote a poem about writing a poem, and the poem's called Poets, and I dedicated it to Stephen Fry because he was the sort of the inspiration behind the poem.
00:36:27.599 -->
00:36:32.159And before the book was done, I thought, I'll send him the poem.
00:36:32.480 -->
00:36:40.880So I got it typed up, and Stephen Fry's not got any online, he's not on in he's not on Facebook, it's it's come it's come off it all.
00:36:41.039 -->
00:36:41.440Yeah.
00:36:41.599 -->
00:36:46.079So I I had to write, I had to physically write a letter to his office.
00:36:46.239 -->
00:36:46.639Right.
00:36:46.880 -->
00:36:54.559So I wrote a letter, got it typed up, sent it, and I got a letter back from Joe at his office saying Stephen will record this.
00:36:54.719 -->
00:37:04.000And unbelievably, the next day I got this thing sent through my phone, which I couldn't get, I couldn't download, so I had to get a neighbour to download it for me.
00:37:05.199 -->
00:37:08.639The screen came on, but the actual it was white noise, so you couldn't hear him talking.
00:37:08.960 -->
00:37:11.440So anyway, I thought, right, this is unbelievable.
00:37:11.599 -->
00:37:21.199And he does a really good job, and I have I've since used it to try and help promote the book, you know, and his office said, Yeah, we're happy to let you use that.
00:37:21.440 -->
00:37:23.280I mean, it's it was massive.
00:37:23.440 -->
00:37:28.559It was my I wrote him a I wrote him a long uh thank you letter and I sent them a book.
00:37:28.719 -->
00:37:36.880I've never actually spoken to him personally, and I don't expect him, but since then I've written to quite a few celebrities, you know, people in the public eye.
00:37:37.039 -->
00:37:40.880I won't go into detail, but not one of them has responded.
00:37:41.039 -->
00:37:43.199And some people who you think would.
00:37:43.599 -->
00:37:45.920But all these people are very they're all busy.
00:37:46.079 -->
00:37:51.920They've all got massive, they'll all get they're probably all getting picked people wanting to do what I'm doing with them all the time.
00:37:52.079 -->
00:37:53.920So I don't begrudge them not responding.
00:37:54.000 -->
00:38:00.559But the further it's gets away from Stephen Fryer, like I say, was the first one, it's just it's it's unbelievable unbelievable.
00:38:00.800 -->
00:38:01.840It was beginner's luck.
00:38:01.920 -->
00:38:03.519Yeah, it was and it's not happened since.
00:38:03.679 -->
00:38:04.159Yeah.
00:38:04.400 -->
00:38:08.800So yeah, well, be honest, we can't I mean I I send off emails to people all the time.
00:38:08.960 -->
00:38:10.639Yeah, you know, because that I've spoken about it.
00:38:10.960 -->
00:38:13.440I just think, well, if they ain't they ain't got time, they ain't got time.
00:38:13.760 -->
00:38:16.559It's like big it's difficult because we're a mental health podcast.
00:38:16.719 -->
00:38:18.159Well I can't get stressed about it.
00:38:18.320 -->
00:38:19.360No, well, no, you can't.
00:38:19.440 -->
00:38:32.639I wrote to a bloke called Lewis Appleby, who's a really high up, he's an academic in Manchester, and he's involved with suicide, and he kindly wrote back to me, emailed back, but he's not got any really online any online presence.
00:38:32.719 -->
00:38:34.400But he had the decency to write back to me.
00:38:34.559 -->
00:38:36.800There's other people who I've emailed about three times.
00:38:36.880 -->
00:38:38.880I'll mention one name of Stephen Graham.
00:38:39.039 -->
00:38:42.159Now, his I emailed him, uh obviously his office.
00:38:42.239 -->
00:38:47.199I don't even know if I got the right office, but I wrote to him because he attempted suicide in his twenties.
00:38:47.599 -->
00:38:53.599Now, he's so incredibly busy, he's that guy, that there's this chance of getting it through to him is a million to one.
00:38:53.760 -->
00:38:56.239Because you can tell what he's like, you can tell he's a good lad.
00:38:56.320 -->
00:39:03.280And you can tell and I know that if he did get the the email on the you know, I'm sure he'd get bad, but I don't blame him.
00:39:03.360 -->
00:39:04.800He's he's he's so busy.
00:39:05.039 -->
00:39:06.800Would you would you like to read a poem?
00:39:06.960 -->
00:39:08.079I'll I'll I'll read a couple.
00:39:08.159 -->
00:39:09.679I'll read that Stephen Fry poem.
00:39:09.920 -->
00:39:10.079Okay.
00:39:10.400 -->
00:39:12.719I hope it's going to be delivered in the way that Stephen Fry read.
00:39:12.880 -->
00:39:16.480It w it won't be a patch on him, but we you know Stephen Fry with the Yorkshire Twang.
00:39:16.639 -->
00:39:17.199I'll try it.
00:39:17.360 -->
00:39:21.599It's the first poem in the book, and the poem is called Poet for Stephen Fry.
00:39:22.000 -->
00:39:26.000To be a poet, one must in time obliged to make your stanzas a rhyme.
00:39:26.159 -->
00:39:29.599A learned scholar lectured me, and like a fool, I did agree.
00:39:29.840 -->
00:39:37.599When you choose a subject matter or wealthy patron one must flatter, it's much more satisfying if you have flowing couplets, like I do.
00:39:37.840 -->
00:39:40.000Each verse should feel quite effortless.
00:39:40.159 -->
00:39:41.920People of taste will be impressed.
00:39:42.079 -->
00:39:44.320There are strict rules one has to follow.
00:39:44.480 -->
00:39:46.880Your work not be coarse nor shallow.
00:39:47.119 -->
00:39:48.960Thank you for those wise words, dear friend.
00:39:49.119 -->
00:39:51.199How gracefully one condescends.
00:39:51.360 -->
00:39:55.920I'll try with heart and soul next time to make my fucking poetry rhyme.
00:39:56.079 -->
00:39:57.199Can I do another short one?
00:39:57.280 -->
00:39:58.320That's another cheerful one.
00:39:58.400 -->
00:40:01.360This is for everybody who used to go to the warehouse back in the 80s.
00:40:01.519 -->
00:40:03.280It's called Black and White.
00:40:03.519 -->
00:40:05.440Now, I'll have to give it an introduction.
00:40:05.760 -->
00:40:09.280Blook called Marcel Prouss wrote The Remembrance of Things Past.
00:40:09.679 -->
00:40:14.239And that what the pretext is, he he ate a ch a biscuit called a Madelaid.
00:40:14.400 -->
00:40:17.679And the the taste and the smell brought loads of childhood memories back.
00:40:17.840 -->
00:40:18.719That's the premise.
00:40:18.880 -->
00:40:20.000So this is the poem.
00:40:20.079 -->
00:40:21.599It goes uh called Black and White.
00:40:21.760 -->
00:40:23.599With Proust it was a Madelaine.
00:40:23.679 -->
00:40:26.079For me, Pluco, black and white pomade.
00:40:26.159 -->
00:40:29.199I keep a tub in my bedroom drawer, though it's not needed anymore.
00:40:29.360 -->
00:40:31.519My luxuriant thatch, a memory.
00:40:31.679 -->
00:40:38.320But remembering how it used to be, teasing my hair into a perfect quiff, I recall it all with just one whiff.
00:40:38.559 -->
00:40:39.760Yeah, that's another great one.
00:40:39.840 -->
00:40:44.559And what just what what struck me then is that's two poems you've given us then that are not related.
00:40:44.800 -->
00:40:47.039No, well so there must be more in you.
00:40:47.199 -->
00:40:48.719Well it be putting you on the spot.
00:40:49.199 -->
00:40:58.079Well, uh, we sort of came out started coming out of me at one point, you know, but I'll be perfectly honest, the main backbone of the book was that was all sort of like dark.
00:40:58.159 -->
00:40:58.400Yeah.
00:40:58.480 -->
00:41:00.480And I thought so I need something a bit light.
00:41:00.639 -->
00:41:05.519But it got to the stage where as I was on sort of rolling with the book where I thought, you know, I need more pounds.
00:41:05.679 -->
00:41:11.519You read about it all the time, it sounds like a dreadful cliche, and it sounds as really arrogant, but it does start to come out of you.
00:41:11.679 -->
00:41:14.159The more you do it, the more it comes out.
00:41:14.320 -->
00:41:22.079I mean, I can remember riding home from Leeds after work one night, going over that big uh elevator dual cageway that goes up towards the M1 via uh Umslet.
00:41:22.559 -->
00:41:26.480And I was looking at the city, and it was a lovely summer evening, and I wrote a poem.
00:41:26.639 -->
00:41:40.159I pulled up over and wrote a few notes down on my phone, and I wrote a poem called The City, and it was about when we were about 19, I used to cycle all over Leeds, and I look nobody none of my friends have mentioned that particular poem, but I love it because it's just a happy memory.
00:41:40.239 -->
00:41:45.280And so it went through a phase where uh I was like anything that happened, I'd think, oh, that might turn into a poem.
00:41:45.599 -->
00:41:48.559But I mean, if you want, I'll I'll read um a sadder poem.
00:41:49.440 -->
00:41:50.719It's up to you, you read whatever you want.
00:41:51.199 -->
00:41:57.119Just thinking then when you said that about the city, it just popped up on my memories recently that I took a walk, you know, during COVID.
00:41:57.280 -->
00:41:57.519Yeah.
00:41:57.679 -->
00:42:02.000Round Leeds City Centre on a night with absolutely no one there, and it were it was so good.
00:42:02.239 -->
00:42:03.039It would be great, wasn't it?
00:42:03.360 -->
00:42:07.039Well, some of it was because I didn't want to get any support at all, so it left me in massive debts.
00:42:07.199 -->
00:42:10.159But but that just walking round and seeing the city like that.
00:42:10.400 -->
00:42:16.320Well when when we used I used to live up Clarendon Road and when we were about 20, and me and my mate, we didn't have any money.
00:42:16.400 -->
00:42:17.119We're in a band.
00:42:17.199 -->
00:42:23.599I played bass in a band, and uh we'd cycle all over town and I knew the s the city like the back of my hand.
00:42:23.760 -->
00:42:28.079But just like saying to you earlier, coming here this evening, I don't know anywhere anymore.
00:42:28.320 -->
00:42:31.920It's completely changed, but we're talking 40 years ago.
00:42:32.159 -->
00:42:42.079So you know I don't I don't feel bad about it, but it's just anyway, I I mentioned uh the horror and the the fantasy, the horrible fantasy I had, which I turned into a this.
00:42:42.239 -->
00:42:48.480I don't know if it I don't even know if it's a poem, but it it was just an expression of my grief, and it's called the Charnel House.
00:42:48.639 -->
00:42:57.760Hovering high in that room 10,000 times or more, staring down at Carnage, trying not to see the devastation, hell that happened here not long ago.
00:42:57.920 -->
00:43:05.360Listen to conversations you were having all the time in my broken mind, watching as you both hang yourselves, powerless to stop your deaths.
00:43:05.519 -->
00:43:10.000Time and time again, I am there, it never ends, then it happens again.
00:43:10.400 -->
00:43:11.840Do you go back to these poems?
00:43:12.000 -->
00:43:13.039I read them all the time.
00:43:13.280 -->
00:43:16.079I read them because to see if they're any good.
00:43:16.320 -->
00:43:17.199Con still.
00:43:18.000 -->
00:43:28.320But I read them to see if you know to see if they are any, you know, like whether to give me the confidence to to to just to to do something like this, to try and sell the book.
00:43:28.480 -->
00:43:37.760I'm going to go to uh a spoken word at the chemic in Lazy Friday because there's some poets on, and I'm gonna go watch them, see how, see how it works.
00:43:37.920 -->
00:43:42.559And if I enjoy it and think I can do it, I'm going to uh I'm gonna do it myself.
00:43:42.880 -->
00:43:46.719I mean there's two there's been I've I've realized there's two branches with this this book.
00:43:46.880 -->
00:43:57.679One is uh just a commodity to try and sell to raise money for SP UK, Suicide Prevention UK, and the other one is for myself to try and promote it as a as a book of poetry.
00:43:58.000 -->
00:43:58.159Yeah.
00:43:58.239 -->
00:43:59.760I was just thinking then, as you said that.
00:44:00.159 -->
00:44:05.039That because it's like you you read them again and sometimes it's like, is it good enough?
00:44:05.199 -->
00:44:08.559But the original purpose was just writing that poetry down, wasn't it?
00:44:08.800 -->
00:44:09.199Yeah, it was right.
00:44:10.639 -->
00:44:17.199It was writing it was to try and I mean that Shanel House, which was one of the earliest ones, and I'd I mean a friend of mine thinks it's great.
00:44:17.280 -->
00:44:19.679I d don't don't I don't know about that one.
00:44:20.000 -->
00:44:24.079Is that because yeah, but is that because it strikes a memory up for you which somebody else is gonna get that, are they?
00:44:24.320 -->
00:44:26.639I can I'm s I'm I'm back there when I'm reading it.
00:44:26.719 -->
00:44:36.320I mean uh it was like such a the fantasy the the fantasy's not the right word, but honestly I must have had it ten I th I must have had it ten thousand times.
00:44:36.719 -->
00:44:38.400It's just unbelievable.
00:44:38.800 -->
00:44:42.320And like I'll ru there's an I'll read another one if you don't mind.
00:44:42.480 -->
00:44:45.360This one's called six bowls, which is what I happened on the day.
00:44:45.599 -->
00:44:46.480Six bowls.
00:44:46.639 -->
00:44:48.639Knocking on your door, no answer.
00:44:48.800 -->
00:44:51.760Turning its handle, the door creaked slowly open.
00:44:52.000 -->
00:44:56.159Walking down a dark hallway, calling your name, still no answer.
00:44:56.320 -->
00:45:03.199Looking in the kitchen, I noticed you had put down six bowls of cat food, all of them were empty, then entering the lounge, hell.
00:45:03.360 -->
00:45:07.760There you were, splayed out, on your back, fully clothed, dead.
00:45:08.000 -->
00:45:21.039Your partner hanging from a blue tow rope, staggering, screaming, searing, shock and horror, running from the house into beautiful spring sunshine, where I found your little black cat sitting in the front garden with a half-eaten mouse.
00:45:21.280 -->
00:45:22.559I mean, I'll be honest.
00:45:22.800 -->
00:45:29.119Now don't take this as badly, but that's quite graphic and picture conjuring, image conjuring to uh to myself.
00:45:29.280 -->
00:45:29.840You know what I mean?
00:45:29.920 -->
00:45:33.599So for you to be writing that down and then recalling that situation.
00:45:33.840 -->
00:45:35.519I can still see it when I'm when I'm reading it.
00:45:35.920 -->
00:45:36.639Yeah, oh yeah.
00:45:36.719 -->
00:45:38.960I I mean it it doesn't bother me though now.
00:45:39.119 -->
00:45:43.440And and I think possibly writing it down turned it into something creative and positive.
00:45:43.599 -->
00:45:49.360As as as a lot of these poems, which are dreadful, horrific memories, they're now positive poems.
00:45:49.840 -->
00:46:02.639I don't want to sound pretentious here, but I once read Philip Larkin said that people say a lot of his poetry is negative, but the act of writing a poem is positive, and that's that's how I feel about these, to be quite honest.
00:46:02.800 -->
00:46:05.119But at the end of the day, they're for me.
00:46:05.280 -->
00:46:10.320I mean, if you can just do one more that's like a slightly slightly more positive one, I'll try and I forgot what it is.
00:46:10.480 -->
00:46:11.920Well, I think they're all positive, to be fair.
00:46:12.000 -->
00:46:15.440I mean, the subject matter might not be positive, but it's it's that expression, isn't it?
00:46:15.519 -->
00:46:19.280And obviously the poetry has brought something to you in a cathartic way.
00:46:19.599 -->
00:46:20.320This is what we're talking about.
00:46:20.400 -->
00:46:30.960We like I know it sounds silly, but the fact that I've I read something recently about when you get to middle age or you get a bit older and you're regretting not doing things and you could become bitter.
00:46:31.119 -->
00:46:34.480I wish I'd have done that, I wish I'd have written that book, I wish I'd have done that, I've got that in me.
00:46:34.639 -->
00:46:40.559And I was I was just reading, thinking about it, and I thought, this book's sort of tick to box that I didn't they wasn't expecting.
00:46:40.639 -->
00:46:45.280I'm thinking, Mike, I mean, like I say, I can't believe what happened with my sister without Nancy.
00:46:45.360 -->
00:46:48.719I can't believe it, but I still I can't believe I've written a book of poetry.
00:46:48.800 -->
00:46:49.920It just seems bizarre.
00:46:50.079 -->
00:46:52.480Anyway, I'll finish on the more positive.
00:46:53.519 -->
00:46:55.039It's called stillness.
00:46:55.280 -->
00:47:00.880Stillness has become my close companion, a comfortable chair, a warm, quiet house.
00:47:01.119 -->
00:47:11.119Stillness, whose presence I thought would never find me, through turbulent years of alcohol, drugs, broken love, violence, and crushing despair.
00:47:11.360 -->
00:47:35.840Stillness bringing serene moments of hard-won wisdom, occasional intuition, a sense of peace to comfort me now, as a horror show of loss and sickening memories fade, stillness in the morning when dawn arrives, listening as Starlins Nest Under Eaves, car engines turning, looking forward to the day ahead with gratitude, appreciation, a day of cats, horses, family, friends, and love.
00:47:36.400 -->
00:47:36.960Thank you.
00:47:37.119 -->
00:47:40.320Obviously these proceeds are going towards Right.
00:47:40.639 -->
00:47:49.519SP UK Suicide Preventional UK, the number is 0800 587 0800.
00:47:49.840 -->
00:47:53.840They're a similar group as Samaritans.
00:47:53.920 -->
00:47:56.639I mean, Samaritans have just had the funding cut by 50%.
00:47:57.199 -->
00:47:58.320It's a it's dreadful.
00:47:58.559 -->
00:48:02.400And and depression and anxiety uh is going through the roof.
00:48:02.480 -->
00:48:05.119It's it's it's a it's a national disease, isn't it?
00:48:05.280 -->
00:48:07.199So uh it's an absolute tidal wave.
00:48:07.440 -->
00:48:07.840It is, yeah.
00:48:08.000 -->
00:48:13.039And it's brought on by lots of things and it's getting increased because of the anxiety, mainly actions at government, if you don't mind me having a.
00:48:13.199 -->
00:48:14.719Well, the in the internet don't help.
00:48:14.880 -->
00:48:24.239A friend of mine, when the sort of book was coming together, I thought, this sounds horrible, but I'm gonna say I I couldn't get any uh I couldn't get any help from the NHS, I couldn't get any help.
00:48:24.320 -->
00:48:27.920So I went on to I contacted Mind and I was on a waiting list.
00:48:28.000 -->
00:48:32.239And I was on the waiting list for a year, and then I came off it because I thought I don't need them now.
00:48:32.480 -->
00:48:42.559And when I was putting this thing together, miles before it was anything like a book, David again said, Well, there's a company called SP UK that, you know, that you know, contact them.
00:48:42.639 -->
00:48:46.320So I contacted them and I felt beholden unto them when they showed a bit of interest.
00:48:46.480 -->
00:48:50.559And over time, when the book was ready, you know, I says it's here now.
00:48:50.719 -->
00:48:59.920And over the last three months of through selling the book, nearly to friends so far, nearly all to friends and acquaintances, I've raised 5,000 quid.
00:49:00.320 -->
00:49:08.400Hopefully soon SPUK will be putting the book on their on their shop site, and they've got they have hundred thousand Facebook friends.
00:49:08.480 -->
00:49:14.559Now, if anybody wants to buy this book at the moment, the best thing is to go onto my Facebook page.
00:49:14.639 -->
00:49:16.079It's Martin Watson.
00:49:16.159 -->
00:49:18.320There's a link directly underneath my photograph.
00:49:18.559 -->
00:49:19.760In fact, we'll put the link on.
00:49:19.840 -->
00:49:20.079Yeah.
00:49:20.239 -->
00:49:28.800And you can buy, and if you just all you have to do is uh leave your address, you can direct you know, you can contact me directly through Messenger and I'll I'll post your book out.
00:49:28.880 -->
00:49:35.840Now I'm selling the books for 15 quid, which is quite a lot of money, but 100% of the profit, everything, goes to SP UK.
00:49:36.000 -->
00:49:37.840If you want to give me more, do what you want.
00:49:38.079 -->
00:49:40.000But it's it's for a great cause.
00:49:40.239 -->
00:49:41.119Yep, absolutely.
00:49:41.280 -->
00:49:42.480Well, thank you for coming in.
00:49:42.639 -->
00:49:43.360Well, thanks for having me.
00:49:43.440 -->
00:49:43.599Thanks.
00:49:44.079 -->
00:49:44.880You're welcome, you're welcome.
00:49:45.039 -->
00:49:48.880Thanks to Craig for m bringing it up in the first place and putting us in contact.
00:49:49.119 -->
00:49:57.840Yeah, I think it's been a great podcast on the uh a lot of subjects, and it's you know it shows that that you know, like we sort of alluded to, there can be light from the darkness, I suppose.
00:49:58.320 -->
00:50:03.840And you know, losing somebody you love in such a incredible way, then forget where you are.
00:50:03.920 -->
00:50:05.440Well come here and talk about it.
00:50:05.679 -->
00:50:11.760It's funny because without sounding patronizing, quite a few people have said that, but it doesn't feel like that way to me at all.
00:50:12.000 -->
00:50:15.199It's strange, it's like it almost doesn't seem real.
00:50:15.519 -->
00:50:16.159Surreal, yeah.
00:50:16.400 -->
00:50:22.480Like, like I said, what happened on that particular day, and here I am six years later, promoting a book.
00:50:22.639 -->
00:50:23.679It's fantastic, you know.
00:50:23.760 -->
00:50:27.519It's I just feel s I feel blessed with my life and grateful.
00:50:27.679 -->
00:50:31.519And I think I mean, you'll know this, the best thing you can have in life is gratitude.
00:50:31.679 -->
00:50:32.639Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:50:32.800 -->
00:50:33.039Yeah.
00:50:33.199 -->
00:50:35.199So on that note, thank you, Marty.
00:50:35.280 -->
00:50:36.000Thank you, lads.
00:50:36.159 -->
00:50:36.800Cheers.
00:50:37.519 -->
00:50:48.159And if you would like to support us and help us keep the podcast going, then you can go to buy us a coffee or you can click that on our website, whitefoxtalking.com, and look for the little cup.
00:50:48.400 -->
00:50:49.199Thank you.
