21. Action Man

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That wasn't completely shit.
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We'll see.
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Good afternoon, Danny.
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Good afternoon.
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So formal.
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I know.
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Because people don't know what time of day it is here, and I think that's super important, you know.
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It's a really important part of the podcast.
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Yeah, definitely.
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Given that people will listen to this whenever they want to.
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Exactly.
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So what are we talking about today?
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Well, this is your this is your uh birthday party.
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This is your shenanigans.
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My party, I'll cry if I want to.
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Exactly.
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This is your idea.
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So um the viewers know or the listeners know that I went on a trip recently back home, um, had a bit of a time away from the podcast, which was kind of nice to reflect.
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Um it's obviously been a bit of a whirlwind uh couple months for me.
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Um it's been very busy in my personal life, very busy in my work and professional life.
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And then obviously we've started this brand new creative endeavor, which is um way at a left field for me.
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And one of the things that I was reflecting on, you know, I was thinking about how over my life I've had all sorts of different hobbies, all sorts of different things that kind of spark my fancy for a bit.
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I get a bit hyperfixated on it for a little while, and sometimes I see it through to fruition.
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Most of the time I don't.
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Um one of my friends, uh Cam and I, um we we often have a a joke that we say, you know, it's an old ADHG proverb.
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Um it doesn't have to be finished, it just has to be perfect.
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And I feel like um I'm really bad for that.
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Um and one of the things I've most impressed with when I started working on this project with you was how action-oriented you are and how good you are at sort of saying, okay, well, we're starting with this, we're gonna do this, and then all of a sudden, next thing I know, the first episode was up on air, and this is now a real thing.
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So I kind of wanted to pick that apart a little bit.
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Um, you know, we've we've kind of jokingly called the the episode Action Man, but I think you are a bit of a a man of action.
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You are somebody who just, you know, it seems like you have an idea and you just run through with it to to completion or or to where you have something that you can actually present to the world.
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Um is that something that has always come naturally to you or?
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Yeah, I don't know.
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I mean, I think maybe what we need to do on this episode is you need to help me figure it out, because I only know what it's like to be me.
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Fair enough.
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So I I do have some, you know, sort of ideas and concepts and things like that.
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And I there are certainly moments in my life where I've um I remember making decisions to this effect.
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Um, but I don't know if I've always been like that exactly.
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Uh and I don't know, uh I mean I know you're right, because I I know I'm like that to a fault sometimes, um, but I'm not sure exactly where it comes from, you know, like as a quick, easy answer for you.
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I suppose there can be a bit of a a downside to it as well.
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If you're if you're always so gung-ho, sometimes maybe you just hit the ground running and maybe you're running in the wrong direction and you don't know, right?
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So yeah, running in the wrong direction.
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I can look back over.
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I mean, one of my regrets over the years is that um I could uh and I don't know if this is a regret because uh the industry changed a lot from when I started to when you know I got sort of further into it.
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When I got further into it, more people were being more meticulous about planning the career and going, I'm gonna do this and set that up, and then I'm gonna go over here, and then you know, whatever.
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And there was more of a loose approach back in the day, or sort of the era that I came from, which is just start the band and go and play and just just do the thing and see what happens, see what happens, yeah.
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And I was in that flow, and then on uh later on I was around artists who had like really planned things out, and I was like, oh, okay.
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Um, and I often I I I mean simple things like I would record something, a single or an EP or whatever, and just put it out.
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I wouldn't think about you know uh when's the right time to put it out.
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Like later on when I started to learn about um record companies putting albums out at particular times to line up with Christmas or line up with Mother's Day or something.
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I was like, oh Part of the tricks of the trade that you learn over time.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I'm talking way back.
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I mean, yeah, you know, way back in the early days when I first heard about that.
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When people bought music.
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That's right, when it actually mattered.
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Um so I kind of regretted that, and I guess that has educated me a little bit.
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Um and I think but I think the biggest difficulty it's caused has been that it's not normal, and I've probably been hard to work with sometimes because especially in band scenarios, um you know, musicians are not always like that.
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You know, they often are more flaky and arty and and that sort of thing.
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Some of them are more over the line of being um selfish and that sort of thing.
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Um but it but the best ones are at, you know, are often just not that good at getting things going.
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And then I'm getting things going, and that often causes friction.
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Yeah, well, I mean, I can even speak to this podcast a little bit, you know.
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Um because of the friction.
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No, no, no.
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Like obviously we kind of spoke in the first episode about how this you know, this this podcast in general, the the revamped version um kind of came to be.
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Um one of the things that I didn't really touch on was how quickly that happened uh in my world, you know.
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And this is one of those things where if I start thinking about of an I an idea, um, I'm gonna start planning, you know, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten years down the line on it.
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I'm I'm not good at just getting started.
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Yeah.
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Um, and that was one of the things that I think really intimidated me, but also kind of did excite me, was how quickly it was, you know, let's come up with a plan, let's come up with some episode ideas, and then next thing you know, it was like, all right, we're we're gonna hit play.
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Um, and then next Tuesday, all of a sudden the episode was out.
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So Yeah, I think I remember that.
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Let's record one next week.
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Yeah.
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What?
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What's next week?
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What are you talking about?
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Um, I I do well, firstly, I I want to spend a second talking about your dad.
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Because you told me recently uh that your parents particularly liked one or two of the episodes, and then you said there was one or two that they didn't like, right?
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So I said, Oh, inter I'm now interested.
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Which one did they not like?
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And and you said that your dad hadn't really enjoyed the Show Me the Muddy episode, and I said, Oh, I thought he would have liked that, why didn't he like that?
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And you said, Because he thought we were sort of stated the obvious.
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And I thought that was such an interesting um response to it, and I totally see where he's coming from, because I don't know your dad, but he sounds like a very successful guy.
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Um and as we then discussed, I mean it may be obvious to him, but it's not necessarily obvious to creators in particular, who you know, if you come up as a creative, you're you're just not in a culture or a conversation that emphasizes things like productivity and deadlines and business practices, professionalism, budgeting, things like that.
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Um and I have actually felt that dynamic many times over the years, because I've you know lots of friends who are in different you know areas of the business world, for instance, and have nothing to do with creativity.
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And sometimes I'll end up telling them something and they'll look at me like I'm completely mad.
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And I'm like, no, but you don't understand.
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Like that's revolutionary where I come from.
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You know, so again, I'm I'm I'm in some ways wondering if I'm gonna wade into the same problem of like stating the complete obvious to people like your dad.
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Uh, or maybe not, I'm not sure.
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Um, I was also going to mention um another fellow Canadian, uh Jordan Peterson, who neither of us rate.
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I have no idea where that's just gone, ladies and gentlemen.
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So well, it's just that the th one of the things that he got famous for was um I forget what he called it now, but a book he wrote, sort of like like life hacks or something like that.
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And it included things like make your bed and basic stuff.
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And I've heard a lot of other people, a lot of other sort of intellectuals kind of go, why would why did that land?
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Like, surely people know to just organise their shit.
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Yeah.
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And then they've carried that conversation forward, like, well, maybe they don't.
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Maybe maybe younger people haven't actually really been taught that, or they don't have those influences just to get your own affairs in order.
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You know, if you I mean I'm not great at making my bed, honestly, but but I do keep a tidy desk, I do keep a tidy diary, you know, things like that.
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I actually feel stressed out when when things aren't in order.
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And and often if I'm feeling overwhelmed by my work, I'll actually sort of clear some time and and organise my workspace and create some lists and and so on, because I know that I'm not really going to be productive until I do that.
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Uh so my wife's very much like that.
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If if there is that sort of clutter, it's it's not it's always on the back of her mind so she can't relax and focus on what she needs to stop and focus on.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Exactly.
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Yeah, but I mean I there's a long way around answering your question.
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So, I mean, I don't quite know the answers, and maybe you can help me unravel it.
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But uh one early story in my career was when I was in a band called the Frankies back in '94, and we wanted to enter the smoke-free rock quest.
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And so, pre-internet, everything was done manually.
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We had to get an application together, and I don't remember um what we had to get together exactly, but it would have been things like a bio and a photo and probably the lyrics of the song and things like that.
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We had to sort of collect everything that was on the list.
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It also would have included things like going and getting the application form, because of course everything again was physical.
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So we had to get this thing in the mail and to um the I believe it was Nelson where that had to get to by this particular Thursday.
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And we said, okay, that's next week, no problem.
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Um we're a five-piece band.
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We took the probably about five tasks and spread it around the band.
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Said everyone do their own thing.
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We'll get together at the end of the week, we'll, you know, get the things we've collected and put them in the envelope and send it, we'll be fine.
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And we got to the end of the week, and only me and one other guy had done our thing.
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And sounds like every group project ever had to do a university.
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That's right.
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And so we just went, okay, well, you know, why don't we, you know, we've got the weekend now, everyone come back on Monday with their thing done, we'll put it in the mail, we'll be fine.
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Come back on Monday, no one has done their thing.
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And we said, okay, if everyone does it tonight, you know, it'll be Tuesday.
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Mail in New Zealand at the time took two days, so that'll still get it there by Thursday.
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Yeah, okay, everyone agreed.
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Everyone took off, and I said to the one person who didn't who who had done his thing, I was like, Glenn, do you think we should just do it all?
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Because the way I'm looking at this, I'd rather not miss out on the competition.
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And I feel like these guys aren't gonna do it and we're just gonna miss out.
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And he was like, Okay, so we've completed the application ourselves.
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The guys never did their thing, and we got uh the application in and we went on to have life-changing experiences because we won the Auckland Finals, we played at the national finals, we played on the stage where the Beatles had played, we're in the paper, we're on the tally, you know.
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We won recording time in um one of the country's biggest studios that we cut a demo in because of it.
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I mean, all this stuff wouldn't have happened uh if me and Glenn hadn't just gone, fuck it, let's just do it.
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And that's really, really stayed with me, that whole idea of don't wait for people.
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Yeah.
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I think that is probably something a lot of people struggle with is the waiting for inspiration or waiting for, you know, I'm just uh I I I would like to do a little bit tonight, but I'm not feeling great, you know.
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I had a busy week and I'm a bit stressed, but you're there's always gonna be something, right?
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There is there is always gonna be something that's gonna stop you or some sort of roadblock that you're just gonna have to push through anyways.
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Yes.
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Um on the whole inspiration thing, I think maybe before getting your project through to completion, um, how do you find inspiration or direction in your creative endeavors?
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Like is there is that something that you have a bit of a formula for, or does it come and go?
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Or um it really depends on what it is.
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Um, but it's probably no different to anybody else.
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You know, you have an idea and that idea um stands out uh uh you know over all the other ideas is all that's exciting.
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Um I think for me it probably is added to with the path, uh seeing the how seeing how it would work.
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The idea itself is not enough.
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Uh I have to be able to see the steps and how it would work.
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The idea that we're talking about off mic at the moment, um with this show, we've been talking about related subjects and trying to solve a few things of of how we can go forward with this particular idea.
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Um and the idea that I've come to uh has excited me because I I can see how it's going to work.
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A bunch of puzzle pieces are clicking in place.
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Exactly.
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And I and if I didn't see that, then I wouldn't want to put too much effort into it, because it'd just be a waste of time.
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Um I don't really put a lot of value in ideas like uh and inspiration.
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They're not words that mean much to me.
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I feel like other people uh inflate the importance of them a bit.
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And perhaps a lot of people just aren't in the habit of thinking creatively, and I've always thought creatively, so I'll have a new idea every three seconds.
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To me, it's like not well, you know, so what?
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Um to me it's more interesting when I go, oh that's an idea.
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Oh, and I can also do that.
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And that would work.
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Oh, well hang on, you know, and now and and then I see it.
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So when that snowball effect starts to happen, it sounds like yeah.
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And sometimes that'll take six months for it to snowball.
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Yeah.
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Well, I mean it's um like you said, you you think about the next steps and stuff.
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How far ahead do you plan?
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Are you planning to ooh that would get us to releasing the first episode?
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Or are you thinking, you know, a few years down the line, like uh I think it's um all of the above at once.
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I think um like often I think companies a small company will start and they'll have big ambitions and they'll go straight for those ambitions right away.
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And those ambitions require huge investment financially, and they have no evidence that it's gonna work yet, and so now they're really in the hole and the country will f the um company will fall on its face.
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Um I'm I'm far more in the mindset of let's grow this thing, you know.
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So when someone goes, Yeah, and we can you know hire a helicopter and you know do and it's like oh yeah, let's put that on the long term like where your head's at, let's pull it back a little bit.
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Yeah, so I I think I see it in steps.
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Um with the podcast, there's not much barrier to entry because we already had a podcast that was um it was we weren't releasing episodes, but it would, you know, we had been up until a year and a half before, and so it wasn't much to just turn it all back on again.
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Um but I certainly thought about the idea of the podcast as early as about January or February, and I don't remember when I first talked to you about it, but um I just thought I'd be cool to do that.
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And then I thought, yeah, yeah, but I'm not doing that anymore.
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And you know, oh, it'd be cool to do an episode like that.
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Oh, what if I did it like that?
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You know, and then I started to I guess solve problems from the previous show as an intellectual idea.
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Um and then I started to put the pieces together and and I decided that I wouldn't want to do it by myself.
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Uh and you know, uh getting the podcast to start, it's not really that hard, I don't think.
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Just do it.
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And we have ambitions for it, and we're just gonna work our way up to them, you know.
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Like we've talked about the video component, but there's a lot of time and money and effort and stuff that goes into that.
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So we're just trying to now work out exactly how to introduce it.
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And you know, so I I'm not sure if I'm answering your question.
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No, I think you are.
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Um, I understand what you mean where it is it's a little bit of all of the above all at once.
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Yeah.
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Um I guess when you have a whole bunch of different ideas, um, you know, let's say you want to write and release a book or something, um, maybe you've got like I think actually I remember reading uh an article with Stephen King and he was talking about how I think he might have said something along the same veins as I'm paraphrasing here, but it was something along the lines of like inspiration is bullshit.
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Yeah.
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Um just sit down at your desk and write a thousand words every day.
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You know, so it is it is much more of a uh don't wait for that, you know, out-of-body inspiration moment where you come up with the next greatest riff that's gonna change the world.
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Um make sure you're actively in that space of creating as much as you possibly can be.
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You know, sit down like it's a day job, sit down, actually, write your however many words each day.
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Yeah.
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Um, maybe 80 or 90% of them are gonna suck, but you're much more likely to hit that inspirational, you know, amazing 10% if you actually are shooting a lot more shit.
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I totally agree with that.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:36.400
Um I when I started writing songs when I was 12, I would I got so into it that I was writing three or four songs a week.
00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:41.119
Because I was just but not because I had a plan necessarily, I was just super into it.
00:17:41.359 --> 00:17:42.880
And why not?
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:43.759
You know?
00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:49.839
Um what I never did was I never started a song and then got stuck on it for seven weeks.
00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.720
Like I always thought that was bonkers, just finish it.
00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:57.039
And um So I think that last part is what we're trying to unpack.
00:17:57.279 --> 00:17:58.559
How do we just finish it?
00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:00.720
You know, whoops, that's just knock a thing over.
00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:11.680
Um uh but I think largely for me that was driven by impatience, and I really think that's a large part of my my thinking as well, is I just want the thing to happen, you know.
00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:15.680
I uh and sometimes that's uh impatience because of excitement.
00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:18.400
I can't wait to hear what the sounds like, you know?
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:31.759
Yeah, and because I was playing in band straight away, writing a song like writing a song on my own would mean that it would go on my list of songs I'd written, and if it was a good enough song, it'd be worth taking to the band.
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:39.759
And then if I took it to the band, it would then have to pass the test of the band liking it, and then it would have to pass the test of it actually working when we started to play it.
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:42.000
I mean, then it evolves once the band gets involved anyway.
00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:50.240
Absolutely, but it's already survived um all of all of these steps before we've gotten on stage, and then you find out whether it actually lands well.
00:18:50.400 --> 00:19:03.359
Um so every time you're writing a new thing, um you're just going, Well, I can't wait to play because you're right, you're now in the mindset of that song you're writing, you're now excited about it, otherwise you wouldn't be doing it.
00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:11.839
Um and you're thinking, like, I can't wait to s to hear what the band would do with this, and I can't wait to hear what the audience will will think, what their response will be.
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:15.599
And I was just so excited to always get to the next bit, I didn't want to wait.
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:16.640
It would annoy me.
00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:19.839
I would I'd sooner miss the next meal and finish the damn thing.
00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:24.559
Um, knowing that that song may not even make the it you know, make the cut.
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:28.160
So it was literally more impatience and excitement.
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:31.119
See that that part I actually resonate with.
00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:34.559
Like that to me, that sort of sounds like you're in that sort of hyperfixation mode.
00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:34.880
Yeah.
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:37.200
Which that part's always been easy for me.
00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:46.880
When when you do get something that is, you know, for lack of a better term, that that is inspiring you, that you get that sort of idea, that earworm that's stuck in your head and you can't get it out.
00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.640
Um, that's a sort of that's the space that I get to quite a bit.
00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:50.880
Yeah.
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:54.880
Where you know, oh shit, now I'm totally into this thing and this is all I can think about.
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:59.119
Um it's much harder for me to actually peel back from that and think about anything else.
00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:04.559
But every once in a while that goes away, and then I'm sitting there with all of these half-finished projects.
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:07.920
So how do you switch from that hyperfixation mode to the discipline to get it?
00:20:08.319 --> 00:20:09.039
I think that's the question.
00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:12.079
I think that is discipline, and I think that is professionalism.
00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:35.039
I think that's where you take it from uh a hobby to a craft, you know, and and I don't know where that that idea came from for me, um, but I never thought I never thought that having an inspired moment and um painting the painting or writing the song was in any way the whole picture.
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:40.960
I always knew that at some point you had to go and sell it, you know, at some point you had to follow through.
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:44.079
Um but like I say, I can't tell you where that came from.
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:58.400
Um I I mean Th there's a couple of other aspects to this, which is I started to clock pretty early that um and you actually said this a second ago, that life will always throw roadblocks in front of you.
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:01.519
It just it doesn't matter what happens, there's always gonna be problems.
00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:08.640
Um and I therefore approach everything with urgency.
00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:13.680
So if it's like we let's get this thing going, and someone goes, Yeah, maybe in a few weeks we can talk about that.
00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:19.039
No, it's more my mindset that I've got a few a few weeks will be a few months.
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:19.440
Yeah.
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:19.920
You know?
00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:23.359
When you're gonna get distracted by something else and then yeah, yeah.
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.559
Everything everything you say is gonna take longer.
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:29.519
Everything you budget will cost more money, you know.
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:31.680
Uh it's just the reality of life.
00:21:31.839 --> 00:21:34.079
So I'll just go, no, not a few weeks, you know.
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:36.000
How about next Wednesday?
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:39.279
Um, and and then that will likely become Friday.
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:41.119
But at least it gets done on Friday.
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:42.240
At least it gets done on Friday.
00:21:42.559 --> 00:21:42.720
Yeah.
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:54.400
So I I started to notice that, and then again, driven by impatience and driven by excitement, but also now seeing it as a strategic thing, um, I need to put pressure on this thing, otherwise it's never gonna happen.
00:21:54.559 --> 00:22:02.079
Um remember also a lot of these ideas then start to get confirmed as I start to work with other really interesting people in the arts.
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:13.759
Um and then all also noticing that this is a problem in the arts too, that people forever never start the book um or never finish the book.
00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:18.559
Or they're editing the book for twelve years, or they've finished the book but they're too scared to put it out.
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:21.279
That's another yeah I think we need to touch on that part too, but yeah.
00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:21.839
All that stuff.
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:32.160
So I'm surrounded by that and I'm and I'm starting to realise that people put a lot of emphasis on talent and inspiration and both of these things are basically meaningless if you can't get the thing out.
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:38.000
And then you do go and work with you know some of the people I've worked with and they're also going, yeah, that's horseshit.
00:22:38.079 --> 00:22:39.200
You need to actually do the work.
00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:40.400
You need to practice every day.
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:49.920
Stevie Wonder talked about writing a song every day as his discipline which makes me you know try to do the math on how many songs by Stevie Wonder we haven't heard.
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:50.960
Yeah I'm not kidding.
00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:53.839
And probably most of them were terrible but on occasion.
00:22:54.240 --> 00:23:04.640
His 10%'s phenomenal exactly so somewhere in there was was the idea is the not the idea more like a philosophy.
00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:17.359
Yeah I think it's you know it's one of those it's one of those aspects from the corporate world that I think more in the music world you don't really want to bring that on board deadlines and planning and meetings and all this sort of stuff.
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:52.000
Yeah but when you are working on a larger project it's kind of the only way to get stuff done like you say otherwise if if you give people six months to work on it they're gonna take seven or eight totally um but at least if you actually give a deadline and uh try and come up with that planning and a strategy to get there you might actually you know you're giving yourself a chance to at least even if you miss the target you're gonna be somewhere closer you know so yeah I also had a high stakes feeling um because like I and I felt this when I started my company uh back in 2005 because I I had it was the opposite of confidence.
00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:54.799
I had no reason to think that I could successfully run a company.
00:23:55.200 --> 00:23:56.000
Imposter syndrome.
00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:57.920
No it wasn't imposter syndrome at all.
00:23:58.079 --> 00:26:06.240
It was it was the fact that I had you know without getting too heavy I had this pretty shitty upbringing and this pretty you know pretty miserable childhood um full of extremely negative critical quite insulting people and it wasn't balanced out by much in the way of supportive encouraging people um and I had personal problems I had dyslexia that was undiagnosed I had um a problem with my eyesight that was undiagnosed I was crashing and burning at school my school were dealing with me by punishing me calling me lazy calling me um stupid all that kind of stuff and I I actually feel like I had my self-esteem almost completely ripped away from me by the time I got to my late teens um and there was a point in my late teens where I kind of froze in terms of I was 18 I was living in a basement room um the band I'd been in broke up the girl I'd been with um left and the I was living in this flat that was so far away from everyone and I knew that my social life was getting a bit patchy and I I I knew and I was working this terrible job and stuff and I knew that I had to change something but I felt paralyzed because I was I think I don't know if I was afraid or what was going on but I was um I had just zero confidence like how am I gonna get another job who's gonna hire me you know how am I gonna get another girlfriend who's gonna go out with me you know I I really felt like that um and I was stuck in this place for about a year to a year and a half where I just couldn't move I was and I and I even at the time I felt like I was self-aware I th I think I feel like I'm emotionally paralysed and eventually I I did actually um answer and I I started looking for another flat I thought I'll find another flat and I spoke to these people on the phone sounds good come and have a look so I drove over to Green Lane or where somewhere where Belmoral I think it was I couldn't find their place and this was before cell phones and everything obviously couldn't find their place and thought god damn it I'll go home and give them a call on the way home had a car crash ripped my car off oh lovely and that again just made me sort of shut down again.
00:26:06.319 --> 00:26:31.200
Fuck I tried to do something and ripped my car off no kidding so anyway I did get the nudge eventually uh the the flat I lived in was owned by one of the flatmates and he told me I'm gonna try and sell the house you can stay here as long as you want but obviously at some point I'm gonna sell it and we'll you'll have to go and that kind of gave me the nudge okay find a place I think I got fired from that job which gave me another nudge.
00:26:31.440 --> 00:26:55.599
Great period anyway thing it was pretty dark and I did find another flat while I was in this other flat it was a very odd flat with about seven people in it I think about half of them were unemployed everyone was on drugs and one of them was a bartender at a music venue called the Temple Bar in Queen Street which is no longer but anyone who's been around an L scene long enough knows all about the Temple Bar.
00:26:55.759 --> 00:27:03.599
And he would he heard me sing in my room playing all these songs and he's like you should come and play at the temple bar we've got this open mic not on Wednesdays and I was like yeah alright.
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:21.599
I hadn't been on stage at this point for a year or so because I'd been performing since I was 12 but this whole hole in my life had had been playing out so I went and played this open mic and that went well and then I went and did a couple more and then Karen who ran the temple bar rang me and said why don't I put you on a different night and you can have a residency.
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:22.960
I really like what you're doing.
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:23.920
Great.
00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:27.920
So this was a nice boost and this was a bit of validation.
00:27:28.079 --> 00:27:42.880
Yeah and I've been mostly performing with bands over the years and this is now the first time I'm playing solo so I'm kind of learning how to recreate the feeling of a band on an acoustic guitar and it's I'm really cutting my teeth.
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:44.640
I'm like really learning how to do it.
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:50.319
Now because I've I've gotten active and I've now got a regular gig I feel like I'm more legit again.
00:27:50.880 --> 00:28:05.920
So I start looking around for other musicians and I see an ad in the rock shop in the old days of notice boards f with uh with a drummer extremely audacious ad and I thought this guy seems extremely cocky and that's interesting.
00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:09.759
So I rang him and we started our next band which we're together for five years.
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:14.480
That was the band we opened for John Mayer and Jimmy Barnes and did a bunch of stuff with cool.
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:24.720
So it it kind of snapped me back into motion again and of course a lot l a a lot of the lessons I learned through that period were that you you have to move.
00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:29.359
You know I I mean I literally got stuck and I just had to move to get out of it.
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:36.559
And I've I developed a saying like a mantra that I've always um come back to which is proactivity leads to activity.
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:39.680
Because sometimes in life you don't know how to move forward.
00:28:39.759 --> 00:28:53.039
You don't know you it doesn't matter if it's professional or personal you just you're thinking I don't know what to do I don't know what to do next um and and whether it's things like I don't know what to adopt as a hobby or I don't know what to do professionally or whatever.
00:28:53.279 --> 00:28:57.440
I I think just start by doing something and you'll figure it out.
00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:19.680
Yeah I mean even was that the longest answer ever given I'm not sure I'm we'll we'll we'll beat it we'll I'm sure we'll beat that eventually but no I think there is definitely something there's something there to unpack you know there is power in doing um and I think maybe allowing yourself a bit of space and levity to not be amazing at something right away.
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:45.839
Yeah I feel like so many people get really into their heads uh especially nowadays when everything is filmed and uploaded the second it kind of happens um everyone's afraid of you know a permanent record showing that they're shit but anybody that you've ever seen that's good at anything was shit at something for a long time first right so it's bad enough that I've got photos of you know the shirts I was wearing Jesus you know I mean I was so broke I was buying my clothes at op shops but I didn't make good choices.
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:46.240
No.
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:49.759
There was a uh a short sleeve shirt that was completely silver.
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:51.839
Now I want to see this.
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:53.599
We've got to find these photos.
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:57.759
It's horrendous put put them on the Facebook group if we can find them.
00:29:58.000 --> 00:30:51.119
No no no I burnt them long ago I guess um do you what are your best tips for for young creative um let's say they've got that inspiration you know they're already doing the thing whatever that they're planning to do what are your best tips for them to maintain that discipline to to see things through to fruition you know um I I heard a uh um a comment now I'm gonna forget who said it might have been Wayne Shorter or someone like that one of these great jazz giants um where people were talking about um easy steps to practising or just do this it'll be fine or whatever and he responded going no it's hard let's not let's not um fluff this up it's really really hard and it takes a lot of practice and a lot of commitment and being a bit more honest with yourself.
00:30:51.519 --> 00:31:01.279
Being honest about it and and I I liked his comment because instead of going it doesn't matter just do a bit of that and be fine you know it was actually reinforcing the fact like no sign up for this.
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:22.960
It's like it's one of the hardest things you'll do but it's also one of the best things you'll do and and that that's a a funny kind of roundabout way of saying what I would say as a tip as in like understand that it takes organization and it takes discipline and it takes follow-through and what that means is that even when you don't feel like doing that thing you have to do it.
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:33.359
And in any moment oh but I'm tired and I don't feel inspired fuck that do it I mean like there's no other advice really who's inspired in their day-to-day job.
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:38.480
Yeah exactly maybe some people are and that's amazing and I applaud you if you are but a lot of people are in that grind.
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:45.279
And I I do think that we get distracted in the arts by this idea that there's some kind of um cheat code.
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:52.240
I like there you know there are there is a reason why sayings exist like you know too good to be true.
00:31:52.319 --> 00:32:02.400
You know there is such a thing as as the get rich quick mentality it's the idea and I think musicians for example historically used to think just get the record deal and then we can sit by the pool.
00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:18.960
Yeah um instead of realizing and this is actually why we named the original version of the podcast Don't give up your day job which is Bobby's idea and he he said it was based on the idea that when you become a professional musician or a successful musician it's not a holiday it's a job.
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:38.319
No the real yeah the real world now you've got uh a big boss um who's gonna crack that whip now the real world real work is starting even if that boss is you but you're not giving up your day job it's just a new day job you know so that's why I do I probably do have a quite a brutal way of looking at it um but I'm not interested in whether I feel like doing it.
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:39.440
It has to be done.
00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:45.759
And and I just remembered also the point of my very long answer before was um that things felt very high stakes.
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:51.119
I started by saying I had no reason to have confidence that I could run a company and then I went into the history there.
00:32:51.359 --> 00:33:00.640
By the time I did set up my company the reason why I said all of that was because I still didn't at that point think that I could do it or or I didn't assume I could do it.
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:08.799
And so I thought I'm gonna have to do everything I possibly can to make sure this works because I don't have a plan B.
00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:11.279
Like they were high stakes.
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:35.119
They were high stakes yeah I literally didn't there's no family money to land on there was no other skill set I dropped out of school you know there was no plan B and so yeah I probably can't make a business work but I also have to um and I worked so hard in those first couple of years I the hours I put in the I'm I'm so introverted like the idea of making a phone call I have to sit there and work my way up to it.
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:39.119
Yeah you know but okay sit there work your way up to it and make the fucking phone call.
00:33:39.200 --> 00:33:42.640
Yeah you know what I mean so I understand that sometimes you just need to take your medicine.
00:33:42.799 --> 00:33:50.640
Yeah exactly so uh yeah I'm not sure how that's coming across too brutal but that's that is really my answer is just you know you do it.
00:33:50.720 --> 00:33:52.079
If you want it to happen you do it.
00:33:52.400 --> 00:34:13.760
Yeah and I mean I can understand how some people might kind of roll their eyes at that a little bit too because you know okay just do it you know okay Nike but but there is a little bit of that you know it's it is one of those things that you need to find a way to instill that discipline in your life on whatever the topic or whatever the thing you're trying to do is.
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:14.239
Yeah.
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:18.480
Yeah I think waiting for that inspiration is just a recipe for disaster.
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:40.559
You do need to to have a way to I think I think maybe one of the things people also don't realize is um you know you kind of have it in your head that these people who are massively successful have all of this talent and you know they probably had it like you said skipping meals because all of a sudden they had this crazy inspiration and they had to to write this thing down and now it's gonna tour the world and be all this great stuff.
00:34:41.039 --> 00:34:51.119
I think there's a lot of other art um that's probably been been made in a bit of a different way of just doing you know 15 minutes here, 30 minutes there, carving out whatever time you can to do a little bit of that thing.
00:34:51.519 --> 00:34:53.199
I think it's just the consistency.
00:34:54.320 --> 00:34:59.039
Do you have any tips and tricks just around that consistency like other than other than just doing it.
00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:05.199
Yeah and I and I also realize that just do it is is there needs to be a lot more conversation around that to make sense.
00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:17.039
I think music um has been one of my great educators too and one of the principles of practicing in music is not looking for some great leap in your playing but it's the it's the art of um incremental improvement.
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:33.360
Well it's it's hard because you know you're constantly bombarded with learn this and it's gonna unlock your playing or or you know this this this great technique is you know do this three-step course and all of a sudden you're gonna sound like fucking Hendrix and it's exactly the we're we're constantly bombarded with that.
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:36.800
That's what I mean by that sort of shortcut mental the get rich quick idea.
00:35:36.880 --> 00:35:39.440
Yeah I just do this and this and this and I'm that it's very prevalent right now.
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:52.000
Yep huge well social media obviously is amplifies that stuff um and that's why I think the messaging is correct as a as a balance to what's out there there's no shortage of clips about inspiration.
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:55.119
So that's why I'm not really spending time on that subject yeah it's fair.
00:35:55.679 --> 00:36:14.320
It's more about um that you can't really jump up like like we're talking about so that incremental thing is really important whether it's how you improve your guitar playing or it's these other things as well like uh I mean you know you want to set up a business and you want to build a client base so how do you do that?
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:24.960
And you go I need to find people who work in this space and so then you need to start looking for who these people are and then you need to do the cold calling and then you need to figure out how to make that effective and it's it's hard work.
00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:28.719
It's really really hard but there does need to be just that little bit each day.
00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:38.639
Yeah I mean like if you're feeling stuck as a guitar player, like have you picked up a long list of bad habits and adopted the sorts of shortcuts you find online?
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:44.960
Have you been learning from random YouTube tutors who may or may not know what they're talking about and who can't give you personal feedback?
00:36:45.119 --> 00:36:54.159
Have you been leaning into the easiest approaches instead of the best approaches there's a lot of information out there and you need to figure out how to make sense of it and what to focus on in what order.
00:36:54.320 --> 00:37:01.679
This is why it makes sense to learn from an experienced professional guitar player who can give you personal feedback and tailor a plan to suit your personal journey on the instrument.
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:08.639
Head to aucklandguitarlessons dot co dot nz or email info at aucklandguitarlessons dot co dot nz to find out more.
00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:09.440
Well done.
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:18.320
That was better that was the most transitional one you've ever done I I could see you gearing up for it though which meant I got completely distracted in my last point.
00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:20.960
Yeah so I think my last point kind of tailed off a bit.
00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:35.760
Yeah because I was asking for the ad read paper yeah and then you were like staring at the page and like practicing and well I had to do a quick I had to do a quick proofread to see if you snuck in any other bullshit what were we talking about?
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:37.119
Oh the the incremental thing.
00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:49.599
So I I do think that there are um benefits in in learning how to set up systems in terms of yeah realistic systems.
00:37:49.760 --> 00:38:00.320
I mean that's one of the reasons why incremental improvement's important and that's one of the reasons why when students ask me how much they should be practicing I'll start by saying the first thing you need to do is play for a couple of minutes a day.
00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:04.079
If you commit to an hour a day you're just not going to get there.
00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:05.280
It can be overwhelming.
00:38:05.519 --> 00:38:12.559
Yeah it's too much you know but um I think the first thing you form is the habit the the habit of just having that instrument in your hand every day.
00:38:12.800 --> 00:38:19.360
And if it's just a couple minutes that's fine but you form the habit um and then you tend to just get into it and two minutes turns into ten, etc.
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:23.119
Then there are other tips like don't put your instrument away.
00:38:23.679 --> 00:38:24.880
That was a really big one for me.
00:38:25.280 --> 00:38:33.840
So for years it's always been in a case under the bed or out of the you know just living in apartments, living in student housing, you never have a lot of space space is always a premium.
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:34.320
Yeah.
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:52.480
And a few years ago I I I think I saw someone say that, you know, like if your guitar is away you're much less likely to actually put out you know have it on a stand next to your desk or put it on the wall and so I started doing that hung them up on the wall behind my desk and when they're there it's so much easier just to pick it up and actually start playing it's removing barrier to entry.
00:38:52.639 --> 00:38:56.159
Exactly you've got to do the same thing with your clients if you're in any other profession.
00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:25.679
I mean I mean if you're running a store you don't want people to walk past the store and look at the store window and go, that looks like a pretty good jacket and then they have to get through some sort of confidence course to get to the store and then they have to like remember the password to get in and you know I know that's a that's silly but you'll it's actually kind of amazing how many um examples of that you find like you know you're on a website and you want to buy the thing but now you have to set up an account and then you have to do this and it takes you some I guess you don't want my money.
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:43.920
Exactly yeah it's it's too hard and you go oh I just wanted the thing you know um but I but it's that barrier to entry with your playing as well it's the same that I've heard musicians talk about in terms of you've got to have um you've got to try and limit the barriers from idea to action.
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:48.480
Like if you run a little studio like mine things are mic'd up and ready to go.
00:39:48.639 --> 00:39:53.519
I've got t I've got templates ready and Pro Tools I can be recording within about a minute.
00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:58.159
So the idea is not gone because I spent 25 minutes you know getting things out.
00:39:58.480 --> 00:40:20.159
That's actually an interesting point that I think probably a lot of people don't spend too much time thinking about because it's it's not a sexy idea to think about the actual backs you know your your processes and your methodology on how you uh how you actually peeling back your workflow and kind of spending a little bit of time focusing on that and developing that as opposed to just developing your ideas.
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:40.639
Yeah yeah that's something we do in the professional world all the time like that's something we do uh in engineering I spend a lot of my time actually taking a bit of a higher level approach and thinking about not just the calculations for this site but how do we make this um a very easy repeatable package that we can that we can issue it you know quicker and we can get out to our results quicker.
00:40:41.119 --> 00:41:07.440
Like you said it's just removing those barriers of entry making sure that oh I've done this one time and that worked really well categorizing that making sure that you save that template so you can reuse it at a future time you know yeah um actually spending a bit of time doing that is probably something is that a do you know a lot of musicians who do that or uh no but I don't think musicians talk that openly about their process and I think a lot of them don't have a secret I don't think many of them have a process.
00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:10.239
Is the secret that we don't know what the fuck we're doing?
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:26.719
I think so I think so yeah I think they're and I don't say that to slag anyone off but I think um I think one of the reasons people don't talk about money in the arts is because they're afraid of the subject they don't feel like they're in control they don't always they don't want to admit how much they struggle with it.
00:41:27.039 --> 00:41:30.960
I think it's probably the same thing with organization and systems and things like that.
00:41:31.199 --> 00:41:53.039
Yeah it's it's too hard basket you know but it definitely improves the efficiency and um productivity for sure yeah maybe it's one of those things that you um you know maybe you don't have the the drive or the passion that you're gonna be um a producer or something and you don't need to necessarily learn all of the in-depth Pro Tools workflow or something like that.
00:41:53.199 --> 00:42:12.159
Yeah but maybe just realizing that hey I really like to play this kind of music I like to get set up like this I like to you know have my mic set up here when I'm doing a recording session having all of that um be set up beforehand like you said or trying to make it set up in a system so that it is very very quick and easy you know you just roll out this table and away you go.
00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:12.639
Yeah.
00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:19.280
That's one of the reasons I kind of am not a big fan of uh digital modelers simply for the menu diving.
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:27.840
Oh yeah as soon as I get into a stage where I'm doing a lot of menu diving it just kind of pulls me out and then I get bored then I get distracted and then next thing I know I'm I'm not even playing my guitar anymore.
00:42:28.239 --> 00:42:31.679
I I see that as like a creativity killer or inspirational killer.
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:33.440
Yeah totally agree with that.
00:42:33.599 --> 00:42:40.239
I I think also it's worth coming back to um that saying that you said you and Cam came up with what was the saying again?
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:43.119
Oh uh it doesn't have to be finished it just has to be perfect.
00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:43.599
Right.
00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:44.079
Exactly.
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:45.360
I don't think we came up with it.
00:42:45.440 --> 00:42:47.360
I just remember reading it somewhere and we repeat it a lot.
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:50.639
And obviously it's funny because the opposite is actually true.
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:56.400
And I think that that is uh you know perfectionism is where people go to die.
00:42:56.639 --> 00:43:00.320
I think I actually I struggle with that in my professional work as well.
00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:06.639
My boss has told me a couple times Mike it just didn't minimum viable product and I was like yeah but it can be better.
00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:23.280
Yeah yeah I I just I see it as a cancer I see it as the enemy that's worth um proactively hunting down and killing um when it comes to writing that song and you want to get the song perfect it's a complete waste of time.
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:24.320
It'll never be finished.
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:27.920
Well the band's going to change it before you get to the gig the gig will change it.
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:31.679
If you go and tour it it'll be completely different by the time you finish the tour.
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:34.079
You go to the studio the producer will change it.
00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:38.000
Then you take it back out onto the stage and then the following tour will change it.
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:44.880
Yeah like and and I don't think the artists that we would look up to think about them as finished products.
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:48.480
Songs are fluid and that's why they evolve.
00:43:48.880 --> 00:44:01.440
That was one of the things uh I had a bit of a an aha moment um after taking lessons with you and we kind of learned to break down the structure of songs more and really understand you know the backbone of the song What's the vibe?
00:44:01.519 --> 00:44:09.760
Um, not so much the individual notes, and like you know, because I'm sure a lot of amateur guitar guitarists have this sort of mindset.
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:12.480
I definitely did that there was you know a right way to play a song.
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:15.760
Yeah, and well, they did this and this recording, so I have to hit this note.
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:25.199
And if you don't hit that pinch harmonic, well, you haven't played the song right, and you know, and it's like then you start to learn that okay, well, the guitarists themselves weren't thinking like that most of the time.
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:28.400
They they have a bit more of a loose framework of the song, you know.
00:44:28.559 --> 00:44:33.440
We're playing this many bars of this chord, and then it's gonna change, and we're gonna do a bridge or what have you.
00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:38.239
Um, and it is much more fluid and it does change from night to night and recording to recording.
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:42.320
And also, if you think in terms of trying to get it perfect, you often fuck it up in other ways.
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:43.119
And you never get it, yeah.
00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:44.719
Yeah, like you you you've now sacrificed.
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:48.400
You've sacrificed the groove and the feel and and all that stuff.
00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:54.559
You I mean, um a lot of experienced musicians will talk about the worst thing that can happen to you on stage is getting in your head.
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:54.880
Yep.
00:44:55.039 --> 00:44:58.079
And worrying about perfectionism is the epitome of getting in your head.
00:44:58.320 --> 00:44:58.639
Totally.
00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:01.760
So it's a it's the worst place to go as a musician.
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:07.519
I have a contract with myself as a as a live performer, which is that I do all the work before I get there.
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:10.239
And then when I go up on stage, I go, relax.
00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:11.679
You can't change anything now.
00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:12.000
Yeah.
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:14.719
You've done the work, that's the contract we made.
00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:18.400
You've done the homework, you've done the prep, which means you can just relax.
00:45:18.559 --> 00:45:18.719
Yeah.
00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:20.320
And if you fuck it up, alright.
00:45:20.559 --> 00:45:20.800
Yeah.
00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:21.920
You know, you're not alone.
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:22.480
Who cares?
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:29.039
Um, and that usually if I could achieve that, it's not always easy to achieve, but that usually brings out my best performances.
00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:32.880
Where you're just in the flow state and just being instead of thinking.
00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:38.559
But also on the perfectionism thing, for example, if you if I don't know if you've ever tried to write lyrics.
00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:39.840
I have, yeah.
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:48.000
And have you experienced that thing where you you know it's going pretty well and then you get stuck on a line and you stare at it for the uh sometimes half an hour, sometimes half a year.
00:45:48.480 --> 00:45:48.719
Yep.
00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:49.679
And you don't move.
00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:50.239
Yeah.
00:45:50.960 --> 00:45:55.039
Um the way to solve that is super easy.
00:45:55.360 --> 00:45:57.119
Write something and keep moving.
00:45:57.599 --> 00:45:58.719
You can change it later.
00:45:58.960 --> 00:45:59.760
Yeah, exactly.
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:08.960
When Paul McCartney came up with the melody for yesterday, um, he famously dreamt the melody and he went around everybody and said, Is this have you heard this before?
00:46:09.039 --> 00:46:10.000
I feel like I've pinched it.
00:46:10.159 --> 00:46:12.960
And it and everyone said, Never heard it before, but it's great.
00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:17.199
Um, and so he then felt a bit better and continued to write the song.
00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:21.280
And his working title was Scrambled Eggs, which rhymes with yesterday.
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:24.639
Scrambled eggs, da da da da da da da da da da.
00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:28.800
The other funny one that I heard more recently was the song Honesty by Billy Joel.
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:29.760
Have I told you this one before?
00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:30.480
I don't think so, no.
00:46:30.639 --> 00:46:31.280
You know the song?
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:31.679
Yep.
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:32.159
Yep.
00:46:32.559 --> 00:46:35.760
Honesty, such a lowly word, such a great song.
00:46:35.920 --> 00:46:37.360
Um, same thing.
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:45.760
He didn't have a uh lyric, he had just kind of half written the lyrics, um, and he had written the progression of the melody and everything.
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:52.400
Um and he was playing it to the band, and he's and he apparently got to that bit, and he goes, Whatever is here will be the name of the song.
00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:53.440
This is this bit's the hook.
00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:54.400
This is the important part, yeah.
00:46:54.639 --> 00:46:56.320
And he goes, da da da da da.
00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:00.320
And apparently Liberty DeVito, the drummer, goes, I know what will fit there.
00:47:00.559 --> 00:47:01.519
Sodomy.
00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:04.800
Different vibe.
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:12.559
So that was the working that they were singing for a minute as they were working on it, which I also love because the rest of the lyrics, sodomy is such a lonely word.
00:47:15.039 --> 00:47:16.000
Yeah, that's pretty good.
00:47:16.159 --> 00:47:22.320
And I think Billy actually said in an interview, like, I I thought then I'd better quickly come up with a better name, otherwise things gonna stick.
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:24.320
But they they actually use that.
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:26.000
I mean, you know, this is not uncommon.
00:47:26.079 --> 00:47:32.719
It's also not uncommon for people to write lyrics by just making mouth sounds as they you know, and then certain words sort of fall out.
00:47:32.800 --> 00:47:44.639
And one of the reasons why that works is because the vowel shapes are musical, and you end up actually putting the the musicality of the words ahead of how literal the words are or how much they make sense.
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:51.599
That's actually something I'm kind of learning now as we're sort of diving a bit more into you know the performance aspect and possibly singing and stuff like that.
00:47:51.679 --> 00:47:56.000
Like how do you actually and I mean you think about uh artists like like Eddie Vetter.
00:47:56.480 --> 00:47:57.760
Who fucking knows what he's saying?
00:47:57.920 --> 00:48:01.039
But he's got those vowels and you know he's playing into the musicality of the song.
00:48:01.519 --> 00:48:06.159
I heard something interesting about him that relates, which is uh no way of knowing if it's totally true.
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:16.559
But he um he said that in the early days he'd never write lyrics down, and the reason why his discipline was, if I don't remember it the next day, probably wasn't good enough.
00:48:18.639 --> 00:48:21.440
I was I remember hearing that going, that's intense.
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:23.760
Like I wouldn't remember hardly anything I wrote.
00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:25.199
So that wouldn't work for me.
00:48:25.280 --> 00:48:26.559
But no, it wouldn't work for me.
00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:34.159
I like maybe he was playing it up, um, but I like the the idea of it, you know, only the good ideas will stay in my head.
00:48:34.559 --> 00:48:37.599
There there I mean there is a little bit of that though.
00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:53.679
When you I'm sure you do this as well, you know, you write a a riff or something, or you maybe you weren't actually writing it, you know, you're just noodling, yeah, and then you kind of stick on something and then you go away, and then that keeps you know on repeat in your head, and you go, okay, there might be something there, and then you come back to it the next day.
00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:55.679
So it definitely does happen.
00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:58.480
I've but I don't know if I would be able to do it with lyrics.
00:48:58.960 --> 00:48:59.280
No.
00:48:59.599 --> 00:49:08.960
Um and I do whip whip out my phone and open voice memos and record ideas and things like that because you know, like I d I don't want to forget that idea.
00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:13.920
Um but I'm also very aware of how dangerous demoitis is.
00:49:14.639 --> 00:49:18.239
And uh that's a big problem in the modern world of music.
00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:22.639
You know, like you are you've got So we can expand what is demo itis.
00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:32.559
Well well demo itis in in its um rawest form is you cut the demo, you get s you you then listen to it so many times, then you like it has to be like that.
00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:40.400
And then you take you go to the studio and you you're now doing the better version of it and you hate every step of it because everything's a bit different.
00:49:40.639 --> 00:49:46.960
And now you're more committed to the trying to make it sound like the demo than you are trying to make it become the best version of itself.
00:49:47.119 --> 00:49:47.280
Yeah.
00:49:47.440 --> 00:49:54.400
And now the producer goes, Maybe we should drop that guitar part and create some more space there, and we should put a keyboard there and whatever, and you're like, nah!
00:49:54.880 --> 00:49:56.800
I've already heard that a thousand times, that's stuck in the city.
00:49:56.960 --> 00:50:00.079
It needs to be like that, and now you're not making a musical decision.
00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:03.280
Now you now you're you're you've lost your object objectivity.
00:50:03.679 --> 00:50:08.960
Um so demo it is a very, very real problem uh in the recording world.
00:50:09.119 --> 00:50:28.159
But the problem these days also is that people can have an idea and they can literally open Pro Tools or whatever they use and be set up a drum loop, they've they've you know they've they've obviously chosen the BPM, um, they have now recorded this thing, and now they've I'll just put this in here and I'll put that keyboard part there and whatever.
00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:32.320
And you know, they've they've they're locking it down.
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:40.559
Um in the old days, what we'd do is write something and then just play it a hundred times, and the tempo would naturally shift.
00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:46.400
Some songs began as ballads and became rockier and other way around and some of my favorite songs are like that.
00:50:46.719 --> 00:50:52.239
Yeah, and and you just you actually just played it loads and it sort of took shape as you're working on it.
00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:56.239
Um but none of that can happen if you've already started recording it.
00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:56.559
Yeah.
00:50:56.800 --> 00:51:03.039
Because you're not gonna you've you've you've decided it's at 112 BPM, and it never occurs to you to even change that, you know?
00:51:03.440 --> 00:51:08.800
And now to change it would mean almost deleting everything and re-recording everything, unless you're using MIDI.
00:51:09.119 --> 00:51:13.760
Um, once you get that one capture and you get stuck in your head, then that's it's a meme to get out of that.
00:51:14.079 --> 00:51:18.800
Also, you're just mechanically invested, like you've now this is you're working on the song in the computer.
00:51:19.119 --> 00:51:21.360
And why would you change the tempo?
00:51:22.159 --> 00:51:34.000
You know, or or things like uh what the Beatles would often uh often do is just have like two beat bars, or um, sometimes John Lennon would put a five-beat bar into a four-beat uh a four-four song.
00:51:34.239 --> 00:51:46.400
Um and you wouldn't do that because it means mechanically you have to go into the software now and make that decision and move everything over and change the time signature there and then re- reset it back to four-four there and whatever.
00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:49.199
And you even if you think of the idea, you just go, eh.
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:50.400
Yeah.
00:51:50.719 --> 00:51:51.679
I think it's one more way.
00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:55.039
I think it's one more way that music is becoming more homogenized.
00:51:55.920 --> 00:51:56.239
Yeah.
00:51:56.559 --> 00:51:59.360
I mean, we've we've spoken at that, I think, at at length.
00:51:59.599 --> 00:51:59.840
Yeah, yeah.
00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:02.320
Um and I'm sure we still will in the future as well.
00:52:02.480 --> 00:52:02.880
But yeah.
00:52:03.280 --> 00:52:07.280
Just on uh, you know, you're kind of talking about a little bit of the problems.
00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:23.119
Um are there any common pitfalls that you're still struggling with when it comes to you know, actually finishing the ideas and what what what would be the most common thing that's gonna make you decide to scrap it and just cut your losses?
00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:54.079
I think um it's really easy in a conversation like this for me to come across as either being uh really arrogant and um in love with my methods or whatever, um or preachy or or or or in a more positive light I could come across as, you know, someone who's really got it all together and in the comparative culture we we live in, it's really easy for people to assume that and go, oh well this guy's good you know, he's obviously really disciplined and he's really onto it, and I'm not like that.
00:52:54.159 --> 00:52:55.199
I can't possibly do that.
00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:57.039
And it's just not true, you know.
00:52:57.119 --> 00:52:59.039
Like I I lose motivation all the time.
00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:10.480
And I think I've been losing motivation more in recent years for a variety of reasons, and I go and do my own um you know reflection and and so on, try to figure out what's going on.
00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:21.280
I mean I I am in the middle-aged part of my life, and you know, the midlife crisis is a thing, and I always assumed that it wouldn't affect me because I had always I mean I ran off and joined the circus.
00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:22.719
My whole life has been a crisis.
00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:33.199
Yeah, well, yeah, but but but also because I didn't, you know, think about being a rock star and then go and get an office job um and then always wonder, like I totally went for it, so I'd have nothing to regret, right?
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:33.599
Yep.
00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:46.159
Um I didn't realise that that wasn't all a midlife crisis entails, and that it it is it is getting to a point where you're now you can see the end where you've never been able to see the end before.
00:53:46.400 --> 00:53:49.679
Um, but there's also that like, is this all there is?
00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:50.880
Is this all that's gonna happen?
00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:51.920
Is this my story?
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:54.159
I thought I was gonna do these other things.
00:53:54.400 --> 00:54:07.039
All that starts to play into it, and one of the things that uh and and doubled down with the music industry collapsing, is that all of the stuff in the past had been, you know, one day, I'm gonna da da da da da da.
00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:10.559
Yeah, you know, and now there wasn't really a one day anymore.
00:54:11.039 --> 00:54:14.559
You know, it's not like the music industry is gonna come right, I don't think.
00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:17.440
And it's hard to see a path for that, yeah.
00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:22.079
And you know, I'm in a I'm just in a different phase, you know, in in my life.
00:54:22.159 --> 00:54:32.719
And so that's I think affected my motivation because I think so much of my of my motivation in the past was building my career and building my identity, and that could lead to this and that could lead to that, and and so on.
00:54:32.800 --> 00:54:35.519
And then you kind of think, or maybe I've already picked.
00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:36.880
You know what I mean?
00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:41.039
Uh and and it it's also hard to be motivated in a tough time in the world.
00:54:41.199 --> 00:54:41.760
Yeah, for sure.
00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:48.639
Um, where we're not sure what's happening with our economy globally as well as locally, and so many other problems.
00:54:48.719 --> 00:55:05.280
Uh, it really I was talking to someone the other day who works with businesses, and he was talking about how hard it is for anyone to know kind of what to invest in or whether to invest at all, or it's just so everything's so unpredictable and difficult at the moment.
00:55:05.679 --> 00:55:16.880
And what I've learned about myself is that I'm I'm really driven still by this thing of getting excited about a vision and running for it.
00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:39.599
And when I wrapped up the last version of the podcast, a a small part of it, apart from the fact that we'd sort of already made the point many times and it had ran its course and all that kind of stuff, um, but a small part of it was just like I just want to focus now on more pragmatic stuff, making money, making a living, my kid, you know, just things like that.
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:47.840
And I so I I kind of made the very rational decision to only focus on that sort of stuff, and I started to lose all my motivation.
00:55:49.039 --> 00:55:59.119
And when we started this, which it'll take a minute for us to get this to be sustainable financially and all that kind of thing, it always takes a while for these things to work.
00:55:59.360 --> 00:56:09.360
But what I found is that I had the energy back because I was now excited about something, and we had you know, we're gonna do this now, and we booked a recording for that and whatever.
00:56:09.599 --> 00:56:26.800
What I also found which surprised me was that my other work, my motivation started coming back there too, and I started to become more productive in my other work because it's like I'd sort of kick started that that sort of engine in me that had always been motivated by booking the next gig.
00:56:27.280 --> 00:56:30.320
What is that next horizon you're you're looking at and working towards?
00:56:30.559 --> 00:56:35.119
And I've had the next gig or the next album or the next whatever since I was a kid.
00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:41.199
And and I I never never I never realized how deep that was and how much I needed it.
00:56:41.440 --> 00:56:42.079
Yeah, definitely.
00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:53.679
I mean, you feel a little bit adrift at sea if you're if you're you know, you're kind of in the doldrums there, you don't have that next the next project, the next task, that next thing that's getting you excited, and yeah, and I don't think that's just me.
00:56:53.760 --> 00:56:57.119
Like I I No, I mean I've I experienced a very similar thing.
00:56:57.199 --> 00:57:13.039
Um we talked about this a bit in the very first episode of the revamp show, um, where I talked about how, you know, I put all this energy and stuff into a career and I had all these plans and I was gonna start my own business, and and I was so focused on that for so long.
00:57:13.199 --> 00:57:21.599
And then when I had my health issues, um, kind of had to re-examine what was important and kind of pull back a little bit on that.
00:57:22.000 --> 00:57:28.400
And I had the exact same situation where I was totally lost for a while, and it definitely affected other aspects of my life.
00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:32.559
Um I think that was probably one of the roughest times in my relationship.
00:57:33.199 --> 00:57:39.039
100% on me just because I was a depressed piece of shit to be around, you know?
00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:40.719
I was very negative.
00:57:41.119 --> 00:57:45.440
Um and it's one of those things that you might have a valid reason for being negative.
00:57:45.760 --> 00:57:48.239
Um there's there's nothing that's gonna take that away.
00:57:48.559 --> 00:57:49.360
But you spiral, don't you?
00:57:49.599 --> 00:57:59.519
But you spiral, yeah you spiral, and then it ends up affecting those around you and people naturally pull back because who wants to hang out with somebody who's a negative piece of shit all the time, right?
00:57:59.760 --> 00:58:03.920
So, you know, that that that really did have a big impact on me.
00:58:04.000 --> 00:58:10.000
Um and it was really just sort of taking baby steps, that that sort of next baby step to work to something that was a little bit more positive.
00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:10.320
Yeah.
00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:18.480
And that, you know, that led me to to want to get back into things that, you know, creative endeavors that actually filled my cup a little bit more.
00:58:18.639 --> 00:58:19.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:58:19.360 --> 00:58:31.280
Um made me it gave me the the sort of clarity to start putting a bit more emphasis in that, want to be, you know, maybe want to get better at that, and that kind of led to taking lessons, which led to meeting you, which then led to this podcast.
00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:32.880
So there's a And now you're a celebrity.
00:58:33.039 --> 00:58:34.079
And look at me go now.
00:58:34.239 --> 00:58:35.119
Look at me now, mom.
00:58:35.519 --> 00:58:58.880
No, it's but you know, it is one of those things that I think maybe another piece of that that isn't always um maybe it's not championed enough, but it is surrounding yourself with good people and making sure that you have positive influences in your life, and you know, you want to look for those collaborators, and when you find someone that actually, you know, you you vibe with and you click with, um, it's important to say yes to those things and actually see where it goes.
00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:00.639
Because it's hard to find people like that.
00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:01.679
It is it's very hard.
00:59:01.840 --> 00:59:02.400
It is hard.
00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:08.480
And and good people doesn't just mean like nice people, it means people that will challenge you and bring the best out of you and that kind of stuff.
00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:09.599
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:11.519
I mean, you very much challenge me.
00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:14.239
Like, I never play live in front of people.
00:59:14.400 --> 00:59:20.079
Um, I don't really talk about this stuff openly to other people outside of my personal and professional life.
00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:22.000
So what the sort of stuff we're talking about now?
00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:24.719
Just music and creativity and stuff like this.
00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:28.079
You know, some of the deeper conversations that we have from time to time as well.
00:59:28.480 --> 00:59:35.119
Um that wasn't really on my radar, and then I don't think I realized how much I needed that until we started having that.
00:59:35.440 --> 00:59:36.639
Isn't it amazing?
00:59:36.719 --> 00:59:38.639
Uh because obviously you're not alone with that.
00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:42.159
I I think that's also something that's a bit broken with male culture.
00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:45.840
And I think women are far better at talking to each other.
00:59:46.159 --> 00:59:46.559
Definitely.
00:59:46.719 --> 00:59:49.840
You know, I mean I can't say that with authority, obviously, but but it seems that way.
00:59:50.159 --> 00:59:56.159
Oh, I mean, it's that it's that common thing of you know, I go and spend four hours golfing with my friends, and they come back, and my wife says, Oh, how are they?
00:59:56.719 --> 00:59:57.119
I don't know.
00:59:58.239 --> 01:00:00.000
What did you talk about golf?
01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:07.280
And I do actually have a lot of time for stoicism and that type of thing in some contexts at some times.
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:08.639
It's a very useful tool.
01:00:09.119 --> 01:00:13.920
Sometimes it's like it's not time to sit on the ground and cry, you need to fucking run.
01:00:14.559 --> 01:00:17.840
Sometimes allow yourself that time once in a while.
01:00:18.079 --> 01:00:19.119
Also, exactly right.
01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:24.480
And I I do think that there is a problem with male loneliness because we don't talk properly.
01:00:24.639 --> 01:00:24.880
Yeah.
01:00:25.039 --> 01:00:33.840
And and I've always believed since I was a kid that um if you talk openly about stuff that you struggle with, I don't see it as vulnerable.
01:00:34.000 --> 01:00:37.519
I know sometimes people will use it against you when those are shitty people, but whatever.
01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:43.280
Um, but I think all you're gonna do is make other people go, Oh, it's not just me.
01:00:43.440 --> 01:00:43.840
Yeah.
01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:50.480
You know, and I think that's far more valuable than any backlash you might get from some shitty person.
01:00:50.719 --> 01:00:51.760
Yeah, fuck those people.
01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:52.480
Yeah.
01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:00.960
I don't know.
01:01:01.039 --> 01:01:11.119
I just I've never- Well, I mean, there's a little bit of um if you have somebody that that you do work with well with, um, you know, it it's also a little bit of a check and balance as well.
01:01:11.360 --> 01:01:24.559
Like if I'm my my personal life is really busy, but you know, I know we've got this recording uh coming up in a little bit, it's gonna light that fire into my ass to make sure, oh, I need to make sure I'm I'm I I know my part and I know my talking points that I want to work on.
01:01:24.639 --> 01:01:28.159
And do you mean like a couple days ago where I was um messaging you every five minutes?
01:01:28.320 --> 01:01:29.440
Yes, exactly.
01:01:30.239 --> 01:01:31.119
Check this out.
01:01:31.360 --> 01:01:32.559
Pretty much, yeah, exactly.
01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:37.920
I got to the point I was messaging you about totally unimportant shit, and I was just like, I'm just gonna keep annoying him for a while.
01:01:38.079 --> 01:01:39.280
I'm gonna left you alone yesterday.
01:01:39.360 --> 01:01:44.320
So and I mean there'll be days where I will be so busy at work that I just have to ignore you anyway.
01:01:44.480 --> 01:01:46.079
So I think you did that this week.
01:01:46.400 --> 01:01:47.679
I do that all the time.
01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:48.559
There you go.
01:01:48.880 --> 01:01:56.719
But it is it is one of those things that if you have somebody who can be a strong collaborative influence, that can really unlock doors.
01:01:56.960 --> 01:02:06.159
And I feel like we're in a bit of a weird period of time where um you know you can you can make an entire album on your laptop in your bedroom and it can be incredible.
01:02:06.239 --> 01:02:06.480
Yeah.
01:02:06.639 --> 01:02:20.480
Um, we've got we've got all these great tools that it's almost making the sort of collaborative um, you know, partnership side of music maybe a little bit less important, yeah, which is really, really unfortunate because I think that can unlock so much as well.
01:02:20.639 --> 01:02:25.440
You know, you'll you'll you'll learn things that you wouldn't have learned otherwise, you'll play things you wouldn't have played otherwise.
01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:29.920
Um quite often our favorite bands are you know the sum of all their parts.
01:02:30.159 --> 01:02:37.199
And um there are some artists who could be the full band, someone like Prince, you know, play on his whole album, but we're not all Prince.
01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:45.440
But even Prince still had other people play on his album because he even he understood, well, yeah, yes, I can play the drums, but it's also cool when I have someone else play the drums because it will change the approach.
01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:45.760
Yep.
01:02:45.920 --> 01:02:54.960
I think we do um try to solve problems that aren't problems, and as is a much bigger thing I'm commenting on.
01:02:55.119 --> 01:03:05.519
But you know, neither of us are in the dating world right now, but I constantly hear about people who are so disheartened and uh you know with the dating scene at the moment because of what the apps have done to it.
01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:07.760
And I find that so fascinating.
01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:13.119
I mean, I've been in a relationship long enough that I never was on an app because my relationship goes back further than that.
01:03:13.360 --> 01:03:15.280
I got the last chopper out of NARM.
01:03:16.800 --> 01:03:19.599
But it's so interesting because you go, This would be much better.
01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:29.199
We can just go on the app and like find someone, and whether you want it to be serious or casual or whatever, you know, that's much more practical and easier, and it avoids all the problems and stuff.
01:03:29.360 --> 01:03:43.440
And then you find that now people are afraid to talk to each other, and there are we actually miss some of the dynamics that we enjoyed by just meeting someone randomly and the little cues and you know, all the subtle stuff that you can't put on the app.
01:03:43.840 --> 01:03:49.119
I think in so many ways we have take we're taking the humanity out of being human.
01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:49.840
Totally.
01:03:50.239 --> 01:03:53.039
And the simplicity of it actually cheapens the overall experience.
01:03:53.360 --> 01:04:05.280
Yeah, and I mean we talk about that extensively about music, about how various um you know, post-production and and also just production mechanisms make music sterile and unhu in uh you know inhuman.
01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:07.119
Um but I think it's actually everywhere.
01:04:07.440 --> 01:04:10.000
I mean God, it could keep going, but it's not really what we had to talk about.
01:04:10.159 --> 01:04:26.079
But I mean, yeah, I I I do I do think there is something to be said about about bringing it back to basics about unfortunately I have to agree with Jordan Peterson about the first bit, not the rest of his career.
01:04:27.440 --> 01:04:29.039
Clean your room, that's as far as he got.
01:04:29.280 --> 01:04:32.400
Yeah, just do the basic stuff, give yourself the best shot.
01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:48.719
If you're struggling with something like depression or an or anxiety or something like that, obviously you should seek help and and that sort of stuff, but you can also do yourself a favor m first by just making sure you're trying to stay fit, you've got good sleep, you're you're eating well.
01:04:49.119 --> 01:04:50.239
The basics are actually important.
01:04:50.559 --> 01:04:54.159
Yeah, give yourself the best fighting chance um and then get help.
01:04:54.400 --> 01:04:54.559
Yeah.
01:04:54.719 --> 01:04:56.880
You know, uh it'll be easier, basically.
01:04:57.199 --> 01:05:00.559
So I I I just think it comes down to these basic things.
01:05:00.639 --> 01:05:13.199
And if you want to achieve a goal, I think it's important to understand that there are multiple steps involved, and whether you feel like it in the moment is actually not relevant.
01:05:13.840 --> 01:05:18.800
It's the it always comes down to the decision of do you want it to happen or not.
01:05:19.360 --> 01:05:22.000
The same way that with that band when I was 15.
01:05:22.159 --> 01:05:25.440
Do I want to be in the competition or do I not want to be in the competition?
01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:29.039
If I want to be in the competition, I'm gonna take care of the application.
01:05:29.599 --> 01:05:34.559
And I can't rely on these other three, you know, geniuses to do the thing.
01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:41.280
Yeah, I mean it's unfortunate, but sometimes, you know, you do have to just take your medicine, you gotta bite that bullet.
01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:46.320
Um and that's not definitely not the answer most people want to hear.
01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:53.519
But realistically what they could do though is they could go to buy me a coffee for what do you know show.
01:05:53.599 --> 01:05:57.360
And if you spend money there and buy us a coffee, your life will improve.
01:05:57.679 --> 01:05:59.599
So there is the there is the cheat code right there.
01:05:59.679 --> 01:05:59.840
Yeah.
01:06:00.079 --> 01:06:00.400
I think so.
01:06:00.559 --> 01:06:02.719
Yeah, that's a get rich quick for us.
01:06:05.760 --> 01:06:08.000
What have what have we learned?
01:06:08.239 --> 01:06:10.079
Um is that more for me on the phone?
01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:12.719
I think so, yeah, because I feel like, you know, I've done all the talking.
01:06:13.039 --> 01:06:19.119
Well I'd say um a couple of the big takeaways other than the just do it harden up mentality.
01:06:19.440 --> 01:06:27.039
Which I'm not not I'm not I'm not putting that on you, but you know, it is that is that is sort of common advice that everybody hears and everyone rolls their eyes at.
01:06:27.119 --> 01:06:27.360
Yeah.
01:06:27.599 --> 01:06:38.880
Um but I think some of the key takeaways that I that I kind of take away from this is you know, um bite-sized pieces, you know, eat the elephant one one bite at a time.
01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:47.760
Focus focus on um getting that 10 or or 15 minutes of of songwriting or or practicing in a day.
01:06:48.000 --> 01:06:51.360
And then quite often that's gonna morph into 30 minutes or a couple hours.
01:06:51.440 --> 01:06:51.760
Yeah.
01:06:52.000 --> 01:07:02.880
Um but if you have the mindset that, oh, I need to put in eight hours today, if you have that discipline to do it, amazing, but it's always much easier to just get started with 10 minutes here and there.
01:07:03.280 --> 01:07:13.039
So I'd say um, you know, making sure that you set up those systems to give yourself the best chance of success by taking smaller steps.
01:07:13.119 --> 01:07:13.440
Yeah.
01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:18.639
Um, also removing any barriers of entry, uh as many as you can as possible.
01:07:19.119 --> 01:07:35.119
Um, you know, if it's if it's songwriting and playing a guitar, for example, making sure the guitar is out, um, making sure your amps are accessible, making sure everything that you need to, you know, the bare minimum of you need that you need to get up and actually start playing, that's important to suss out.
01:07:35.280 --> 01:07:45.760
Um, actually spending a bit of time thinking about those things, you know, thinking about the process, thinking about uh the methodologies, how can you eliminate as many barriers as possible?
01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:46.320
Yep.
01:07:46.480 --> 01:07:51.840
Um and then look for others, you know, look for the helpers, look for collaborators.
01:07:52.000 --> 01:07:56.079
Um it's not something that you're always gonna find really easily.
01:07:56.239 --> 01:08:00.000
It might be something that just happens completely randomly, but be be open to it.
01:08:00.159 --> 01:08:00.320
Yep.
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:02.400
Um quite often we're not open to it.
01:08:02.480 --> 01:08:10.400
You know, maybe maybe you click with somebody and you kind of were talking about, hey, maybe we should get together and jam, and you think, yeah, maybe we should, but then you go, oh shit, I'm so busy.
01:08:10.480 --> 01:08:13.920
I got this next weekend, that the following week, and there's no way we're gonna have time.
01:08:14.000 --> 01:08:17.680
And then you you've already eliminated that possibility before you've even given it a shot.
01:08:17.840 --> 01:08:18.079
Right.
01:08:18.239 --> 01:08:21.119
So just being open and and actually looking for people.
01:08:21.199 --> 01:08:23.600
I think those are probably the the big takeaways for me.
01:08:23.840 --> 01:08:26.880
And I thought of one other thing, which is do it now, not later.
01:08:27.039 --> 01:08:27.520
You know, yeah.
01:08:27.680 --> 01:08:29.359
And that's that's something that I always live by.
01:08:29.680 --> 01:08:30.560
I'm brutal for that.
01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:37.439
Yeah, like you know, I should really, I should really, you know, get my hammer and bang on that nail that's sticking out, you know, yeah, yeah, I'll do it later.
01:08:37.680 --> 01:08:38.960
No, no, do it now.
01:08:39.439 --> 01:08:40.479
You know, I have an idea.
01:08:40.720 --> 01:08:41.359
Now as later.
01:08:41.520 --> 01:08:41.920
Yeah, yeah.
01:08:42.000 --> 01:08:48.560
I have an I I if I have an idea, I've got to remember to do that, I always email it to myself, just cause because I treat my emails like my to-do list.
01:08:48.800 --> 01:08:53.600
I just I I sort of have this ongoing idea that I'll never trust my memory.
01:08:54.000 --> 01:08:58.239
Uh my memory is totally unreliable, so write it down.
01:08:58.880 --> 01:09:03.119
And yeah, I I I just don't have that habit of of I'll do it later.
01:09:03.199 --> 01:09:06.880
I mean, I've I've either got it written down so I'll do it later, or I'll just do it now.
01:09:07.680 --> 01:09:09.039
That just made me think of one more.
01:09:09.119 --> 01:09:09.359
Yeah.
01:09:09.520 --> 01:09:10.720
Be totally honest with yourself.
01:09:10.800 --> 01:09:10.960
Yeah.
01:09:11.199 --> 01:09:13.039
Understand what are your strengths and weaknesses.
01:09:13.359 --> 01:09:19.439
If your strength is that, oh, I actually don't have an issue with discipline, I can, you know, I'll just write, sit down and do it the whole time.
01:09:19.520 --> 01:09:25.600
But you know, where I do have a problem was is with that collaboration, or yeah, I'm afraid to go out and talk to other people or do this other thing.
01:09:25.840 --> 01:09:26.319
That's great.
01:09:26.640 --> 01:09:32.399
Be brutally honest with yourself and understand where you might need a bit of help or where you need to focus on your on your improvement.
01:09:32.720 --> 01:09:40.159
That's that's great because you do have well, firstly, if you're gonna lie to yourself, I'll definitely remember, you know, or I'm great at that.
01:09:40.239 --> 01:09:40.319
Yeah.
01:09:40.560 --> 01:09:42.079
Or whatever, you're not gonna get anywhere.
01:09:42.159 --> 01:09:53.359
Um but the other reason why I think that's really important is because I do know a lot of people who are really organized and really disciplined, but they're paralyzed by the idea of creativity, for example.
01:09:53.920 --> 01:09:54.960
They're they're afraid.
01:09:55.119 --> 01:09:56.000
They're afraid of failing.
01:09:56.159 --> 01:09:57.199
I think we sort of touched on it before.
01:09:57.439 --> 01:10:00.479
I mean, that's yeah, that's that you kind of that feels like me.
01:10:00.640 --> 01:10:01.039
Yeah, right.
01:10:01.279 --> 01:10:06.479
You know, like that's I've always I haven't had the issues with learning something, especially if I'm super interested in it.
01:10:06.560 --> 01:10:06.720
Yeah.
01:10:06.880 --> 01:10:11.199
But it's always just that there's a crippling fear of actually putting it out there.
01:10:11.359 --> 01:10:17.840
Actually getting to that final step, because then once you do finish it and you put it out and everyone says it's shit, are you gonna be able to handle that?
01:10:18.399 --> 01:10:18.720
Exactly.
01:10:18.800 --> 01:10:31.199
And and I think um so I think what we're getting at is that people are people come along with their own strengths and weaknesses, and you have to play into your strengths and counter your weaknesses.
01:10:31.680 --> 01:10:37.279
And if your strength is organization, then a lot of this show today won't really be interesting to you, probably.
01:10:37.600 --> 01:10:39.279
You're gonna say, what the fuck are you guys talking about?
01:10:39.520 --> 01:10:40.000
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:10:40.079 --> 01:10:41.600
Like why why wouldn't you do that?
01:10:41.840 --> 01:10:52.079
Um But if you're the person who's afraid of of creating the thing, just not only just create it and don't worry about it, but create lot to them, like this TV Wonder thing.
01:10:52.159 --> 01:10:52.319
Yeah.
01:10:52.479 --> 01:10:56.000
Oh, I'm I'm I'm terrified of trying to write a song because what if it sucks?
01:10:56.239 --> 01:10:58.079
No, no, it will suck.
01:10:58.880 --> 01:11:00.079
Embrace the suck.
01:11:00.319 --> 01:11:00.640
Yeah.
01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:03.600
And and probably 99% of your songs will suck.
01:11:03.920 --> 01:11:06.880
But if you're right enough, you know, you don't need that many.
01:11:07.039 --> 01:11:07.359
Yeah.
01:11:07.520 --> 01:11:11.439
Um, and the ones that don't suck don't suck because you've practiced 99 times.
01:11:11.520 --> 01:11:11.920
Yeah.
01:11:12.159 --> 01:11:14.880
You know, so I think that's like be fearless.
01:11:15.039 --> 01:11:16.000
Just try shit.
01:11:16.159 --> 01:11:18.159
Write the lyric down, you can change it later.
01:11:18.239 --> 01:11:20.800
You know, write the screenplay and finish the fucking thing.
01:11:20.960 --> 01:11:21.279
Totally.
01:11:21.439 --> 01:11:22.560
And get someone to review.
01:11:22.720 --> 01:11:23.760
I mean, geez, that's the other thing.
01:11:23.840 --> 01:11:27.680
It's like finish the thing and get people you trust to give you honest reviews.
01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:28.000
Yeah.
01:11:28.239 --> 01:11:30.159
And don't which is hard to find, actually.
01:11:30.479 --> 01:11:32.399
It's hard to find, but don't let your feelings get hurt.
01:11:32.560 --> 01:11:38.399
If you s if you write a book and you ask someone who, you know, who knows about that sort of thing, can you read it and tell me what you think?
01:11:38.479 --> 01:11:42.720
If they come back and go, well, it well, you know, it's missing this and it doesn't really have structure or whatever.
01:11:42.960 --> 01:11:43.439
Thank you.
01:11:43.520 --> 01:11:44.880
Okay, now I know what to work on.
01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:45.760
Yeah, exactly.
01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:46.239
Right?
01:11:46.319 --> 01:11:47.359
And then write another book.
01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:47.840
Yep.
01:11:48.000 --> 01:11:48.239
Yeah.
01:11:48.399 --> 01:11:48.800
Anyway.
01:11:49.199 --> 01:11:49.680
Agreed.
01:11:49.840 --> 01:11:51.840
No, I think we've brought it into land.
01:11:52.079 --> 01:11:53.039
Yeah, I think so.
01:11:53.279 --> 01:12:05.119
Now I need to come up with the wrong.
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This episode was brought to you.
01:12:50.479 --> 01:13:05.840
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01:13:10.960 --> 01:13:12.399
Never do that again.