00:00:00
Speaker 1: And it is time, of course, for our weekly wellness segment. And the area of wellness that we are looking at today or the area of our body that we are looking to maximise wellness is an area of the body that perhaps we don't give as much attention to. We spend plenty of time talking about skin care. And often we spend plenty of time talking about hair care. But how much attention do we actually give to the skin underneath our hair? Our scalps need love too. And that can be particularly challenging for people with textured hair, tightly coiled hair, type 4 hair, especially when we're wearing protective styles. For a really long time, an awful lot of the conversation around hair care has focused on the hair itself rather than the scalp. But there is now growing interest in taking a slightly different approach, including applying some of the principles of Korean skincare to textured hair. I'm delighted to be joined today by Nolum Gunza, who is a South African co-creator of B4, which is a new hair care brand which was developed in collaboration with Korean skincare innovator Joon Lim. And we're chatting about scalp health. what textured hair needs and really whether the beauty industry has done enough to cater for it. I can answer that question immediately. Nolu, welcome. Good to have you with us.
00:01:27
Speaker 2: Good morning. Thanks for having me. An absolute pleasure.
00:01:29
Speaker 1: Listen, we hear so much about looking after our skin. And these days, yeah, we're hearing more about looking after our hair, particularly as melanated people. But the scalp doesn't always get the same attention all Why is it so important? And what are some of the things that we are getting wrong when it comes to scalp care?
00:01:48
Speaker 2: So, I mean, Sarah-Jane, the scalp is basically skin as well. So the same principles that apply to skin care apply to the scalp as well. And actually, you cannot grow strong, thriving hair from a neglected, inflamed, or even a clubbed scalp environment. So in our team, we always use the tree and soil root analogy. So if your soil is not properly taken care of, you absolutely cannot grow a flourishing tree. And, you know, to answer your second question around common mistakes that we make, you know, as melanated girls, we overwash our hair, we over scrub it with really harsh formulas, you know, and they always are stripping away at our natural protective barriers. Sometimes we use really hot water and And what that actually does is it actually dehydrates the scalp. We also add so many like heavy oils and creams. And some of these creams and oils are not actually made for the scalp, but they're actually made for the hair cuticle. So actually using harsh ingredients and scratching the scalp as well can damage the skin and actually make it worse.
00:03:03
Speaker 1: Nolly, you know what I find so interesting is that, you know, particularly as black women, we.
00:03:09
Speaker 1: For so long, the range that we had available to us was so, so limited. And so there was, with that limited range, we were kind of making the best of what we had, right? And then gradually, thank goodness, a lot more products came onto the market. But we didn't necessarily know how to use them, I found. That was being my experience. If somebody is regularly, and I love to wear, you know, I love to wear braids, I love to corner my hair, twists. What challenges might somebody like me experience with my scalp if I'm wearing weaves, if I'm wearing braids or twists?
00:03:47
Speaker 2: So you're basically sweating. There's dust in the air, environmental dirt. There's product buildup because you're constantly spraying your hair daily. There's dead skin cells that get trapped underneath there, you know, in between your cornrows. And that continues to happen week after week because we don't always wash our hair, right? So just like basically the same principles that apply to toning your face. So if you try and use a waterless, no-rinse toner that allows you to basically lift that dirt and the excess oil that's building up, without frizzing the hair and without untangling the braid, you're actually creating a healthy hair. for your hair and your scalp to breathe. So sometimes, you know, you have itching and slits. That's often a sign of irritation and moisture loss, okay? So again, a tip that I would give is always lift the dirt first. So we have a product called the Scalp Cleansing Toner. You can do that. And what that actually does, it actually has apple cider vinegar, which breaks down all the dirt. OK, and once you've removed all of that and ours is not drying because what we've done is we've added Centella Asiatica, which is a very famous Korean skincare ingredient, which helps to balance the moisture, you know, to put it back as well as licorice root as well. So we're stripping the dirt, but also adding back moisture. And what you need to do after that, because you've cleansed your scalp, you need to add a balm, like an oil, to soothe and restore the balance without creating heavy residue. I think that's the balance we need to really understand.
00:05:43
Speaker 1: Whenever I go to my hairdresser and I'm ready to get braided up again, she always shakes her head at me and she says, why have you put so much oil on your hair? And it's almost like a default in that we're told, you know, particularly with our skin. And I think sometimes we think the same rules apply to our skin as it does to our hair. But, you know, I just kind of throw a load of oil on there or whatever it might be, because I feel like I'm trying to add the moisture, add the moisture, whereas actually perhaps I'm doing more harm than good. If you're just joining us this morning on Weekend Breakfast, in our wellness segments, We're talking about looking.
00:06:19
Speaker 2: After our scalp.
00:06:22
Speaker 1: It's an area of the body that perhaps doesn't get the attention that it deserves. But because of that, often we can become sort of plagued with problems. Itchy scalp, flaky scalp, that sort of thing. And it's particularly relevant for those of us who perhaps have type 4 hair, textured hair, who are regularly wearing braids or twists or weaves. And I'm delighted to be joined by Nolo Mkwanza, who is one of the founders of a new hair care brand, B4, which is developed in collaboration with Korean skincare innovator Jun Lim. Where do you think... How much do you think the problems come down to the products that have been available to consumers? And also, like I mentioned earlier, how we've been taught to care for our hair. I get a lot of, have a lot of conversations these days within the adoption community that I'm a part of, where there's a lot of transracial adoption happening. And a lot of white parents have got, and this is my mum's own experience, have got no idea how to care for our hair. And people are often saying to me, what do I do? What do I do? And it is so important as well. So do you think that there is this kind of this gap where we don't necessarily know what to do with our hair? We haven't necessarily been taught how to use the right products?
00:07:45
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Sarah-Jane, because even I, as a black South African woman, was not taught. I had to learn and teach myself later and understand how my hair type. So the 4C hair basically coils. So what it does is when you put the oil on the scalp, it cannot travel freely to the tip of the root. That's why our hair is always dry. But if you have straight hair, it's easy for oil to travel from the root. That makes so much sense. So then we actually need a lot more moisture on our hair cuticle as well. So we need to Think about those things. And I remember you said you add a lot of oil, but what that actually does, oil does not mean moisture. What actually ends up happening is the more you put oil on it, it traps the bacteria, it feeds the yeast, it starts itching more because you are not cleansing, you're not maintaining the oil that you consistently are putting on there. But just to go back to where the beauty industry has kind of missed the mark. So historically, they've just relied on generic heavy oils that actually clog our pores. And that's where... We've had a lot of harsh sulfates that completely strip the moisture. I think you've seen a lot of shampoos now, sulfate-free, blah, blah, blah. So now they're kind of trying to change that narrative, but it's not enough. And what they've actually ignored with the African women's hair is the need... for us when we are wearing our protective styles for weeks at a time, okay? Because we just don't wash our hair weekly. We can't. So they've missed maintaining the scalp's oil moisture, the pH balance, and managing the microbiome buildup that actually happens and soothing the irritation that we actually consistently have. And Again, the most important thing, without disrupting our style, because that's important to us. Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:57
Speaker 1: What about someone like me who, like, I'm at the gym every day. What am I doing? Because I'm not going to be washing a whole head of braids every day.
00:10:11
Speaker 2: Exactly. Imagine. So that's where our scalp cleansing toner comes in. Got you. You wipe the buildup away. You wipe the sweat away. So you can continue with your life. Yeah, yeah. You know, because you know our hair day is like, oh my goodness, it takes like hours.
00:10:29
Speaker 1: It's the whole day.
00:10:30
Speaker 2: Don't always have the time. Yeah. So we created this for that busy woman who's on the move and busy. We just want you to continue living your life without worrying about your hair unraveling or spending more money at the salon. It's just to make your life a lot easier.
00:10:47
Speaker 1: June is on the line, but I think we're struggling to, I don't know if we can connect, but talk about how you and June got together. And what was it about Korean skincare science that you felt could translate well to looking after our scalp and our hair?
00:11:03
Speaker 2: So I left South Africa when I actually used to live in Cape Town and I worked for a digital design agency and I left and I went to Korea and I actually ended up spending five years there because I found their culture very African. It's very similar to how I was raised.
00:11:19
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:11:20
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah. So I just really felt at home and our paths, June and I crossed and we started having a conversation about where he was going and he had already been working in african hair care in the u.s for about 10 years and i was already interested in korean skin care as how it can heal our skin barrier as african women because we um we get pigments quite easy and a lot and i found that it cared for our skin very well so we met and i think a few years later we kept in touch and he's like no the the industry is doing an injustice you know to um African hair care. I have an idea. Let's see how we can use Korean technology. And I was like, what? Korean technology is in the future. They are decades ahead. And I'm always looking at them for trends. No one can convince me anything. I've been using Korean skin care, hair care since 2014, having landed on it there. So it's really just... they prioritize gentle barrier repair, skin hydration. They preserve rather than aggressive chemical fixes. And this is for the skin. Sorry, this is for the face as well as the scalp. They have also traditional plants that we can go into. They're very academic. They test a lot. We could never leave the lab with the product that wasn't clinically tested. And we were happy with the results.
00:12:54
Speaker 1: Nolo, I want to make sure that people know where they can go because we're running out of time. We need to go into the news. But I want to direct people to your social media pages, which is B4BEPHORZA to find out more about this range. and how you can start looking after your scalp. Nolly, thank you very much indeed. June, thank you for you. I know you can hear us, but we can't hear you. It's been a pleasure to have you on the show. Appreciate your time. The founders of Before, teaching us how to look after our hair and scalps.
Speaker 1: And it is time, of course, for our weekly wellness segment. And the area of wellness that we are looking at today or the area of our body that we are looking to maximise wellness is an area of the body that perhaps we don't give as much attention to. We spend plenty of time talking about skin care. And often we spend plenty of time talking about hair care. But how much attention do we actually give to the skin underneath our hair? Our scalps need love too. And that can be particularly challenging for people with textured hair, tightly coiled hair, type 4 hair, especially when we're wearing protective styles. For a really long time, an awful lot of the conversation around hair care has focused on the hair itself rather than the scalp. But there is now growing interest in taking a slightly different approach, including applying some of the principles of Korean skincare to textured hair. I'm delighted to be joined today by Nolum Gunza, who is a South African co-creator of B4, which is a new hair care brand which was developed in collaboration with Korean skincare innovator Joon Lim. And we're chatting about scalp health. what textured hair needs and really whether the beauty industry has done enough to cater for it. I can answer that question immediately. Nolu, welcome. Good to have you with us.
00:01:27
Speaker 2: Good morning. Thanks for having me. An absolute pleasure.
00:01:29
Speaker 1: Listen, we hear so much about looking after our skin. And these days, yeah, we're hearing more about looking after our hair, particularly as melanated people. But the scalp doesn't always get the same attention all Why is it so important? And what are some of the things that we are getting wrong when it comes to scalp care?
00:01:48
Speaker 2: So, I mean, Sarah-Jane, the scalp is basically skin as well. So the same principles that apply to skin care apply to the scalp as well. And actually, you cannot grow strong, thriving hair from a neglected, inflamed, or even a clubbed scalp environment. So in our team, we always use the tree and soil root analogy. So if your soil is not properly taken care of, you absolutely cannot grow a flourishing tree. And, you know, to answer your second question around common mistakes that we make, you know, as melanated girls, we overwash our hair, we over scrub it with really harsh formulas, you know, and they always are stripping away at our natural protective barriers. Sometimes we use really hot water and And what that actually does is it actually dehydrates the scalp. We also add so many like heavy oils and creams. And some of these creams and oils are not actually made for the scalp, but they're actually made for the hair cuticle. So actually using harsh ingredients and scratching the scalp as well can damage the skin and actually make it worse.
00:03:03
Speaker 1: Nolly, you know what I find so interesting is that, you know, particularly as black women, we.
00:03:09
Speaker 1: For so long, the range that we had available to us was so, so limited. And so there was, with that limited range, we were kind of making the best of what we had, right? And then gradually, thank goodness, a lot more products came onto the market. But we didn't necessarily know how to use them, I found. That was being my experience. If somebody is regularly, and I love to wear, you know, I love to wear braids, I love to corner my hair, twists. What challenges might somebody like me experience with my scalp if I'm wearing weaves, if I'm wearing braids or twists?
00:03:47
Speaker 2: So you're basically sweating. There's dust in the air, environmental dirt. There's product buildup because you're constantly spraying your hair daily. There's dead skin cells that get trapped underneath there, you know, in between your cornrows. And that continues to happen week after week because we don't always wash our hair, right? So just like basically the same principles that apply to toning your face. So if you try and use a waterless, no-rinse toner that allows you to basically lift that dirt and the excess oil that's building up, without frizzing the hair and without untangling the braid, you're actually creating a healthy hair. for your hair and your scalp to breathe. So sometimes, you know, you have itching and slits. That's often a sign of irritation and moisture loss, okay? So again, a tip that I would give is always lift the dirt first. So we have a product called the Scalp Cleansing Toner. You can do that. And what that actually does, it actually has apple cider vinegar, which breaks down all the dirt. OK, and once you've removed all of that and ours is not drying because what we've done is we've added Centella Asiatica, which is a very famous Korean skincare ingredient, which helps to balance the moisture, you know, to put it back as well as licorice root as well. So we're stripping the dirt, but also adding back moisture. And what you need to do after that, because you've cleansed your scalp, you need to add a balm, like an oil, to soothe and restore the balance without creating heavy residue. I think that's the balance we need to really understand.
00:05:43
Speaker 1: Whenever I go to my hairdresser and I'm ready to get braided up again, she always shakes her head at me and she says, why have you put so much oil on your hair? And it's almost like a default in that we're told, you know, particularly with our skin. And I think sometimes we think the same rules apply to our skin as it does to our hair. But, you know, I just kind of throw a load of oil on there or whatever it might be, because I feel like I'm trying to add the moisture, add the moisture, whereas actually perhaps I'm doing more harm than good. If you're just joining us this morning on Weekend Breakfast, in our wellness segments, We're talking about looking.
00:06:19
Speaker 2: After our scalp.
00:06:22
Speaker 1: It's an area of the body that perhaps doesn't get the attention that it deserves. But because of that, often we can become sort of plagued with problems. Itchy scalp, flaky scalp, that sort of thing. And it's particularly relevant for those of us who perhaps have type 4 hair, textured hair, who are regularly wearing braids or twists or weaves. And I'm delighted to be joined by Nolo Mkwanza, who is one of the founders of a new hair care brand, B4, which is developed in collaboration with Korean skincare innovator Jun Lim. Where do you think... How much do you think the problems come down to the products that have been available to consumers? And also, like I mentioned earlier, how we've been taught to care for our hair. I get a lot of, have a lot of conversations these days within the adoption community that I'm a part of, where there's a lot of transracial adoption happening. And a lot of white parents have got, and this is my mum's own experience, have got no idea how to care for our hair. And people are often saying to me, what do I do? What do I do? And it is so important as well. So do you think that there is this kind of this gap where we don't necessarily know what to do with our hair? We haven't necessarily been taught how to use the right products?
00:07:45
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Sarah-Jane, because even I, as a black South African woman, was not taught. I had to learn and teach myself later and understand how my hair type. So the 4C hair basically coils. So what it does is when you put the oil on the scalp, it cannot travel freely to the tip of the root. That's why our hair is always dry. But if you have straight hair, it's easy for oil to travel from the root. That makes so much sense. So then we actually need a lot more moisture on our hair cuticle as well. So we need to Think about those things. And I remember you said you add a lot of oil, but what that actually does, oil does not mean moisture. What actually ends up happening is the more you put oil on it, it traps the bacteria, it feeds the yeast, it starts itching more because you are not cleansing, you're not maintaining the oil that you consistently are putting on there. But just to go back to where the beauty industry has kind of missed the mark. So historically, they've just relied on generic heavy oils that actually clog our pores. And that's where... We've had a lot of harsh sulfates that completely strip the moisture. I think you've seen a lot of shampoos now, sulfate-free, blah, blah, blah. So now they're kind of trying to change that narrative, but it's not enough. And what they've actually ignored with the African women's hair is the need... for us when we are wearing our protective styles for weeks at a time, okay? Because we just don't wash our hair weekly. We can't. So they've missed maintaining the scalp's oil moisture, the pH balance, and managing the microbiome buildup that actually happens and soothing the irritation that we actually consistently have. And Again, the most important thing, without disrupting our style, because that's important to us. Yeah, absolutely.
00:09:57
Speaker 1: What about someone like me who, like, I'm at the gym every day. What am I doing? Because I'm not going to be washing a whole head of braids every day.
00:10:11
Speaker 2: Exactly. Imagine. So that's where our scalp cleansing toner comes in. Got you. You wipe the buildup away. You wipe the sweat away. So you can continue with your life. Yeah, yeah. You know, because you know our hair day is like, oh my goodness, it takes like hours.
00:10:29
Speaker 1: It's the whole day.
00:10:30
Speaker 2: Don't always have the time. Yeah. So we created this for that busy woman who's on the move and busy. We just want you to continue living your life without worrying about your hair unraveling or spending more money at the salon. It's just to make your life a lot easier.
00:10:47
Speaker 1: June is on the line, but I think we're struggling to, I don't know if we can connect, but talk about how you and June got together. And what was it about Korean skincare science that you felt could translate well to looking after our scalp and our hair?
00:11:03
Speaker 2: So I left South Africa when I actually used to live in Cape Town and I worked for a digital design agency and I left and I went to Korea and I actually ended up spending five years there because I found their culture very African. It's very similar to how I was raised.
00:11:19
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:11:20
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah. So I just really felt at home and our paths, June and I crossed and we started having a conversation about where he was going and he had already been working in african hair care in the u.s for about 10 years and i was already interested in korean skin care as how it can heal our skin barrier as african women because we um we get pigments quite easy and a lot and i found that it cared for our skin very well so we met and i think a few years later we kept in touch and he's like no the the industry is doing an injustice you know to um African hair care. I have an idea. Let's see how we can use Korean technology. And I was like, what? Korean technology is in the future. They are decades ahead. And I'm always looking at them for trends. No one can convince me anything. I've been using Korean skin care, hair care since 2014, having landed on it there. So it's really just... they prioritize gentle barrier repair, skin hydration. They preserve rather than aggressive chemical fixes. And this is for the skin. Sorry, this is for the face as well as the scalp. They have also traditional plants that we can go into. They're very academic. They test a lot. We could never leave the lab with the product that wasn't clinically tested. And we were happy with the results.
00:12:54
Speaker 1: Nolo, I want to make sure that people know where they can go because we're running out of time. We need to go into the news. But I want to direct people to your social media pages, which is B4BEPHORZA to find out more about this range. and how you can start looking after your scalp. Nolly, thank you very much indeed. June, thank you for you. I know you can hear us, but we can't hear you. It's been a pleasure to have you on the show. Appreciate your time. The founders of Before, teaching us how to look after our hair and scalps.
