Skill Got Them Hired. Values Got Them Fired.

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Welcome back to the show. Everyone. Today's episode it isn't
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about theories, workplace trends, or leadership models. Today is about
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the man behind the work. Back with me today is
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David Cohen, founder of DS Cohen and Associatests. He's a
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best selling author, educator, consultant, speaker, and someone who has
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spent decades studying people, leadership, hiring, and human potential. So
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behind all of that is an incredible life story. So
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he grew up in New Jersey, struggled in school before
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ADHD and dyslexia were understood during the political activism civil
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rights era, he moved across countries, built a career from
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scratch multiple times, survived cancer, raised a family, and continue
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to evolve through every chapter of life. So this conversation
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is about resilience, identity, reinvention, and the lessons that only
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come when you live life. David, it's so good to
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have you back. I'm really excited to hear your story.
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We talk about business and hiring and selecting the best,
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like the title of your book here, but we never
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talk about you. So I'm really excited for this conversation.
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How are you doing You're fine, I'm doing great.
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Yeah, so I didn't know all of the stuff that
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you sent me in the PDF of your life, and
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so I'm really curious when you look back to your
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childhood in New Jersey, what stands out for you?
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Oh God, that's interesting. Well, first of all, if you
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ask my wife, you can take the kid out of
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New Jersey, but you can't take Jersey out of the kid. No,
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I still identify even though I've lived in Toronto now
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for forty years, I probably still identify as someone from
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New Jersey. What I recall or what I reflect on,
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call it nostalgia or whatever is. I had an incredibly happy,
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positive childhood And how bad could it be when you
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spent every day you could at the beach and you
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just really had good friends, good school, and a lot
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of support. And so New Jersey was to me a
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great experience with a lot of freedom and a lot
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of fun.
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Amazing. There were some difficulties because you said that school
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was a bit difficult because things like ADHD and dyslexia.
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Those are conditions that most people didn't understand, but you
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were struggling with. How did that shape your confidence and
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your childhood growing up?
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Well, I think that it made it difficult, difficult. I mean,
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I remember that when I was young, Like I don't
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remember the story, my mother told me the story, so
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I believe it's true. About in Gray's second grade grade too,
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they used to have these in the back of the room.
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They used to have these closets with these big doors,
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and the teacher would discipline you put in these closets.
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I came home one day because the teacher couldn't handle
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me anymore because I couldn't see the board because I
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had eyesight problems which had not been identified yet. I
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had obviously ADHD and I obviously had t exslexia, which
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obviously nobody knew about SO or nobody was really paying
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attention to. SO. Being the troublemaker or the person that
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I later became to know when I came to Canada
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is affectionately called a shit disturver. I up in the closet,
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came home having an asthma attack, and my mother trounched
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the school, yelled and screamed at the principal, and the
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principal basically said to my mother. After that, my mother said, supposedly,
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I don't care if that teacher dies, and supposedly she
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was run over and killed by a car. A week later,
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the principal said, you can have anything you want. We'll
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give them, obviously a new teacher. But we still had problems.
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I still couldn't read. Moved to That was when I
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was in Irvington. We moved to the Jersey Shore, the
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beach area, to a town called New Shrewsbury, now Sitting Falls,
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and luckily I ran into an eye doctor who said,
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part of your problem is because I was still struggling
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in grade four and five. By grade six, the eye
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doctor said to me, I have. One of my problems
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was besides can't see out of my left eye, as
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I have lazy eye and it's in my left eye,
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we have to strengthen it. So I'd wear a patch
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on my right eye. And that patch I had to
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wear any time I was awake. So when I woke
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up in the morning, I put it on before I
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got out of bed, and when I turned all the
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lights off, I put it on. And there's only one
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picture of me with that patch on that I can find,
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and that was in grades seven and eight. So here
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I'm entering adolescens, not feeling terribly confident about yourself, not
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being able to read well, and I was very lucky
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that I had a mother who never gave up and
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would sit with me and found ways to help me
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digest the material I needed. I went to a reading specialist,
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went to an eye specialist, and eventually started to be
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able to catch up with reading level by grade nine.
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When I graduated grade eight, grade eight teacher said said
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to my mother that David really struggles with school academics.
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He should go to vocational school, to which my mother
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did listen to her. I went to high school. It
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was taught, it was hard. I got solid C grades,
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B grades. By the time I got my senior class
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and could read again. I caught up with reading grade level,
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probably in my sophomore year. So my grades started to
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catch up. And when I got my doctorate many years
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later from Boston University, it was in the local newspaper
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and my mother went into the teacher after school was
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over and everybody left, and she put that article on
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the table and said to the teacher, point blank, how
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many other kids' lives did you fuck up? And the
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teacher didn't Sandy.
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Own strong woman?
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My mother. Yeah, My mother was very strong, very opinionated,
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and unfortunately it was usually right about things. But it
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was her and my father's tenacity about getting me the
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help I needed. That today is common sense with people
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knowing about ADHD. So they were decades ahead of their time,
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and it was not easy. It wasn't easy. I was
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very skinny when I was young. My grandfather used to
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joke that if I stood in a rain storm sidewards,
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I want to get wet. I was so skinny, right, So,
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but I was also very active during that period of time.
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I was the editor of the high school newspaper my
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junior and senior year. I was politically active. I got
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a background from my father about doing justice in this
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world and making the world a better place when you
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leave it then you found it, and so to correct
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the ills of the world. He really impressed upon me
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the importance of standing up for people.
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And he sounds like a major influence. He was very
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politically active.
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Well, yeah, he was politically active before he you know,
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before he had kids, before you know, I was growing up.
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When he was in during World War Two, he was
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the shipping and in vasra Iran. He was in charge
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of the port and scheduled people. Was in charge of
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scheduling and he was also involved with a platoon of
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black soldiers, which he always would try to find to
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schedule them better days. One day, Count Basie came to
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the USO to perform. Of course, the soldiers of color
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couldn't go to that they were segregation in the army
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back then. He scheduled all of the white soldiers to
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be on duty that night. So he and the black
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soldiers went behind the bandstand to listen to Count Basie
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that day, and he said they had a great time.
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They danced, they had a great time, and he was
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two days later. They tried some of the white soldiers
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were angry at him, and they threw a wrecking a
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lift a chain at my father who ducked on time.
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They tried to kill him, actually twice because of his activism.
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And one day my father wrote in Yank magazine that
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he was angry at the soldiers because they didn't understand
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why they were there. And one of them responded and
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said to them, why are you here? And he said
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to and Jim Crow, and to make it possible that
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every American can pursue life, liberty and happiness, and that
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he was there to protect democracy. And you know that
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was his whole attitude towards life. When we moved to
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When we moved from Irvington to titt and Fall to
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New Shrewsbury, he got very active started a youth recreation
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program nineteen in the late nineteen fifties he created He
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didn't like the Little League Association because the kids who
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couldn't play ball very well were never had an organized program.
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So he created with a number of other fathers in
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the community, a New Shrewsbury baseball program. Every kid that
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showed up made a team, regardless of capability, and all
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the teams were the Zebras, the Bears they were named
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after it was the Zoo, and every kid had to
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play one inning and have at least one at bat
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every game, so it was egalitarian. Before you know, this
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is the late fifties, So just a sample of him
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always being way ahead of his time. And he also
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was very proud of the fact that they would put
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a representative team together that always beat every other team
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in the area. And when the high school, the high
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School Monmath Regional High School. The first year at opened
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was the year I entered as a freshman. In the
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second year, we had our baseball team which is a
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combination of kids from our town, Fort Mommoth and Eton Town.
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We won the state championship in our division, So it
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wasn't and many of the kids were from titt And
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Falls and the Shrewsbury on the team. So it wasn't
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like he was holding people back because he had an
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equal opportunity baseball league. It was he had a baseball
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league that gave kids opportunity to have fun. And as
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he always said, whether it's basketball or baseball, which were
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his two major sports, if you are not having fun,
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stop doing it and no matter how good you are
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in it. So it was that was the environment I
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grew up in. The other part of the environment.
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Yeah, go on, I was just going to say that
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the leadership aspect of both of your parents, Like now,
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it kind of is clicking. It makes sense to me
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why you developed such a passion for leadership because your
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parents were such leaders and showed you the way, essentially
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what a good leader is to look at people as
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human beings. And it's so interesting because you attended the
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March on Washington era, and so I'm sure at the
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time you didn't realize that you were with your witnessing
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a history event.
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No. I just went because it was the right thing
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to do, to stand up for social justice, to stand
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up for your neighbors, to make sure everybody had equal
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opportunity to work and to put food on the table.
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And my father couldn't go because of a commitment he had,
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but he found a church group in Shrewsbury, New Jersey
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that was going and I went on the bus with them,
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and I it was just a phenomenal event. It was overwhelming,
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it was it was quite It was a great opportunity.
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And I wrote about it in the school newspaper, and
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you know, it was something that has lasted with me
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a long time and that but that wasn't you know.
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When I was writing my book Inside the Box, which
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is about values, I call it Inside the Box because
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my grandfather had a box company. And he also my
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grandfather came to America when he was three years old
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from Lithuania and dropped out of school in grade three
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to help support a family of nine children or ten,
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and he started his own business, well he was twenty
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two years old, a box business, rough paper box, and
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he did very well. But he always, you know, taught
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me about things about life, everything from fishing, to treating
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people well, to When I was writing the book Inside
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the Box, I heard a story for the first time
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that I never heard before that when members a number
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of his employees were drafted went overseas and he had
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contracts to fill. He had sent my mother, who was
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twenty at the time, into NewYork to a number of
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the churches to recruit women to come and work in
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the factory. And they set up a bus to bring
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them into the factory every day and take them home.
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But they were all women of color, and when they
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got to the factory, the white women rebelled and said
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they wanted a separate bathrooms, they wanted a separate eating area, etc.
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My grandfather looked at him and used his favorite expression,
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if you don't like it, don't let the door hit
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an ass on the way out. They are people just
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like you, and there's no separate bathrooms, no separate eating area.
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And if you don't like it, you know they're working here.
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You're not. And my mother said, within about six months
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they were sharing recipes and talking to each other. They
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lost a couple of employees, but that was for the better.
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And that's why I talk about I mean values were
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always something impressed upon me by my grandfather, my parents,
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and that's why it's a central part of what I
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believe and do in order to make the world a
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better place is to find out what values are and
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live them. And it was interesting that values inside the
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Box was something that the publisher at the time didn't
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want to call it, because thinking outside the box when
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the book was being published in the late nineties early
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two thousands was the catchphrase, and all of a sudden,
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I'm coming out with the books Saw inside the Box.
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And the idea is that when you live your values,
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you have to operate inside of that system. You can't
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operate outside of the system and still live your values.
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So from the point of business, operating inside the box
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inside your values leads to sustain success. When you operate
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outside of those is when you lose your ability to
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do what say something and do something at the same time,
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which commonly called integrity. So you lose your integrity when
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you live outside the box with your values. So that's
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where it all comes from.
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That's an amazing story. And you also moved so many
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places were you always comfortable reinventing yourself.
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I left for Parsons College in Fairfield, Iowa, on a
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bus to Chicago when I was seventeen because I didn't
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turn eighteen until November of that freshman year. I you know,
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I was overwhelmed. I never really traveled outside the Tri
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state area, never been except for boy Scout camp, never
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was away from home overnight, and suddenly I have a
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twenty four hour trip to Fairfield, Iowa. And Parsons was
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you know, it doesn't exist anymore and when bankrupt in
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nineteen seventy two seventy three, but it was a great experience. Also,
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politically active on campus, got in trouble with the local
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community because of my anti war stand and my stand
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on social justice, which was in the newspaper. Became editor
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in the college newspaper in the second half of my
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junior year and through my senior year. The school was
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losing accreditation. At the part point, I spoke up counter
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to what was the school policy public line because I
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felt there were other issues going on. So I wasn't
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really popular with the administration, nor was I popular popular
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with the local community because of the social justice issues
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that I was fighting. But I had many kindred spirits
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at the school. The staff on the newspaper were st
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of the liberal enclave of the community, and that along
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with the Block organization, we did some incredible stuff and
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I had a great time. I don't regret a second
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of it.
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Wow, that is so cool. I am an unconventional woman myself,
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and so I really respect people who just fight for
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what they believe in and go against the green I'm
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definitely not a conformist. So it sounds like a movie.
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You also had a famous babysitter. Can you tell us
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about Philip Roth?
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Yeah, I had a babysitter. There were two favoite I
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guess two famous incidents in my life. One was Philip
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Philip Roth is my uh first cousin wants to remove
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my mother's my mother's first cousin. Uh. Philip Roth used
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to babysit for me when I was young. I know Philip.
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I was there when he got sick two three days
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before he passed away. I always stayed in touch with Philip.
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I was close with him, and so when I started
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to write my first book, it was you know, it's
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my family kind of joked would be a bestseller, and
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I said, I don't think it'll ever meet the family
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standard of writing a book with Philip Roth.
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But I'm sure he shapes your writing. Did he influence
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your writing at all? Maybe your storytelling abilities.
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I think it came from my family, his family. My family, uh,
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the Wroth Flash or the Rough family loved telling stories.
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Uh loved talking about what was going on in the world,
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in the community. So it was, you know, storytelling, which
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is part of you know, whenever we got together, they
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told like any family told stories. But Philip, Philip was
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a unique neat character. He went through uh many periods
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of time which were quite interesting in his life. So
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I uh, I just I knew him and stayed in
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touch with him and his brother Sandy.
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Uh.
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Sandy lived in Chicago, Philip lived in Connecticut and New York.
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And anytime I went to New York for business, I
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always had either a lunch or dinner with Philip. Spent
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a lot of time with Philip, and uh, you know,
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my favorite story with Philip was was we're talking one
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day about and I asked him a question. I said,
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when he became famous, he must have been invited to
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a lot of different parties and different places. He said, yeah,
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he remembers when after Goodbye Columbus came out. He was
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invited to this party meeting something on some big fancy apartment,
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and everybody's standing around talking to him as a young man,
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and all of a sudden he looks up and everybody
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left and now it's going to somebody else. And I said, well,
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who was the person? And he said Jackie Robinson. And
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when he said that, I almost stood up and like
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expressed Jackie Robinson. And he looked at me and said, God,
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you never get that excited when you meet me. I said, well,
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just like they, they're more excited meeting him, you know,
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because he was so and the other person that I
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don't know, I mean I knew him once, uh was
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We had a in in New Shrewsbury. There was a
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place called teen Devot was a father who wanted a
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place for his daughters and for our their friends that
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sort of get together, so that they had a place
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to socialize. So he had a barn on his property
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he cleaned out, made the bottom part sort of a
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restaurant and the up part of the dance floor, and
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he had a group. He would have local bands come
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in and one of the local bands was the Causs
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Steeles and the head singer. The organizer of the Cass
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Steeles was a guy by the name of Bruce Springsteen.
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So you know, I went Springsteen was probably there every
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other weekend for a year. Uh so I would hear
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Bruce before people knew him and.
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Uh yeahs jam and just play guitar and yeah.
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Yeah, So been to quite a few of his concerts afterwards.
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But you know, when it was with the Casilles, it
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was a different kind of experience. Yeah, A teen devous.
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Yeah, amazing. So all of these experiences, they were basically
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shaping what you were going to do with the rest
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of your life. So you I feel like you've always
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had this understanding that most people and organizations misunderstood people.
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Yeah, I think that people. I think people leaders of
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organizations that understand people. Call it emotional intelligence, call it
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just caring, call it empathy, whatever you want to call it.
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Those leaders who also understand who they are and live
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their values express them are the ones who were successful
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and trying to understand that can help. You know, I
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believe that you've got to make organizations as great as
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the people inside of them. So if you can understand
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what makes people who they are and makes people come together,
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with the common values and a common purpose that you
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can create psychologically safe places to have healthy debate, healthy
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differences of opinion, be innovative, be prosperous. And unfortunately not
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all organizations are like that. So the good news is
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it's kept me very busy with the organizations that are
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like that and want to find out why they're like that,
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and also organizations who realize they're not and want to improve,
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you know, there's opportunity to help them.
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Yeah. So you've written some books. As you were mentioning
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some best selling books on talent leadership, what message were
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you trying to communicate through your work and your writing.
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I'm trying to community. That's interesting. I think. I think
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that what I'm trying to communicate is that people have
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an underlying set of behaviors that are driven by their values,
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whether they know it or not. I mean, I've worked
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with organizations where they never have one bank account that
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I worked with at the time, they never stated what
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their values were, and everybody knew what they were because
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of the consistency in decision making and predictability of how
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people were treated. People learn what the values are without
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ever being able to express them. Necessarily and the bank
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CEO at the time didn't feel that it was necessary
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to express themis in the mid nineteen nineties. He didn't
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want to express the values because he wanted people to
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behave so people understood the values without ever stating what
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they were. It was an interesting perspective. I've worked with
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organizations like Michelin Tires, which has a set of values
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which date back to the founders and are perpetuated by
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the founders because they keep the purpose of the organization
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and the belief system of how they run the organization
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front and center and everything they do worldwide. So I
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was talking about and incidents that happened in the plant
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in Nova Scotia at a conference in Thailand, and people
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didn't believe that the respect for their employees and maintaining
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the dignity of the employee in the story I told
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was something which was realistic. And some gentlemen in the
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back stood up and said that that was very realistic
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and he could identify with it. He was the general
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manager of a Michelin plant in Thailand, and he said
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he had better stories than that, very along the similar lines.
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So it was a universal connection that the organization's large
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or small can create if in fact, leadership make sure
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that they have a common understanding of what they are
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and reward people not for the results, but for how
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they get their results. And that was critical to whether
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it was beh Ringer in Germany, which is still a
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family run pharmacy, who is very emphatic about what they
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stand for and what they believe in and how they
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treat their employees as Michelin is. Now Here's the difference,
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which is an interesting one to observe is the companies
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that have a sustaining culture and a sustaining value system
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are not the companies in the United States that have
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ninety day plans and report on ninety day to Wall Street.
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Bow Rigger is concerned about developing cures for different diseases
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that could take ten to fifteen to twenty years, so
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they have a twenty year vision. Michelin is the same way.
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They are not going to measure themselves. For instance, in
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the nineteen eighties, at the Michelin plants in Nova Scotia,
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they were at the time making new tire tires for
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new cars. Well, cars were not being made during a recession,
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so the plant really didn't have to operate, but Michelin
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didn't let anybody go. They didn't fire anybody, they didn't
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put anybody on leave. They kept paying people their salary
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and keeping them on and having them involved in the
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community and doing other things so when there was a
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turn in the business, they'd be the first ones to
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market with those tires. And it worked. So, you know,
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it turned things around, But it also created and gendered
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to the employees that we believe in who we are,
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and we're going to be here for the long run,
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and we're not going to take short term decisions. We're
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going to make long term decisions. So what really you know?
436
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I find I've just written a couple a series of
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four articles on culture and the evolution of cultures using
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complexity science on LinkedIn, and the whole idea is in
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the third part of that. Of the four articles, I
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talk about cultures that sustain themselves and they are all
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for the examples I use are companies that are based
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out of Europe because they they think long term, they
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don't think short term.
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Right. Wow, that's that's a really good point. But I
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want to get back to talking about your story, because
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your story includes profound health challenges for both you and
447
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your wife. Can you tell us a little bit about
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those experiences and how those changed your perspective on life.
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Well, my wife, this is a long time ago. I
450
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found out she had Nonhunchkin's lymphoma and I had to
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go obviously in for an operation to have it removed,
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and go through chemo and everything else. And I didn't
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understand what was going on back then. Of course, really cancer,
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even twenty years ago, in the way I grew up,
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cancer was a dirty word that you didn't say publicly
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and never set it around me, never set it around
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the kids. Uh. So I had a general lack of understanding,
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but I knew I had to support my wife. My
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wife's concern was she was into spinning back then, Like
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she would spend two three hours a day, three four
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times a week. And her only concern, so the doctor,
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was how long would it be before I get back
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to spinning after the operations? Yeah? Spin biking? Yeah? And she,
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you know, she did, she went back. She's amazing woman.
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And so that was sort of a wick up call
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and was scary, uh for the whole family. We had
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two boys at the time that were still at home,
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we were young. Uh, that was very scary. Uh. And
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then later I found out that I had signs of
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prostate cancer, as most men do, and I've been on
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a I did. They did discover that I had cancer,
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but it's been on a watch because it hasn't reappeared
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through biopsies since then. So I'm on a cancer prostate
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watch for twenty years. And then just before COVID started,
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my wife it discovered she had breast cancer. She luckily
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had the operation that it removed a week before the shutdown.
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Wow.
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I canceled a trip to India as a result and
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to stay with her and be with her, which was
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also lucky because the shutdown happened just before the trip
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to India would have started, or asked the trip to
482
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:46.640
India would have started. So I was very fortunate with that.
483
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:53.519
And she beat that too. She did all of stuff
484
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:57.480
she had to. And then I found out that I
485
00:33:57.640 --> 00:34:05.720
had by fluke. Actually I have chronic lymphatic lympsoma, which
486
00:34:08.079 --> 00:34:09.559
was on a watch for a couple of years and
487
00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:12.480
about three years ago became active. So I'm now in
488
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:17.280
treatment for that, and it's a blood born cancer that
489
00:34:17.880 --> 00:34:20.280
as long as I'm in treatment, probably will not kill me.
490
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:23.280
But I have to watch it. And now I have
491
00:34:23.360 --> 00:34:28.320
an appointment with my oncologists for that every three months
492
00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:33.480
and for the prostate cancer every six months. So I
493
00:34:33.559 --> 00:34:39.880
am very fortunate that the Canadian health system has totally
494
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:47.440
been supportive, has been available, and has been responsive. It's fantastic.
495
00:34:48.000 --> 00:34:54.559
It's thank God for public health care. Yes.
496
00:34:54.960 --> 00:34:58.519
Well, the medication that I'm on is nine thy five
497
00:34:58.559 --> 00:35:03.079
hundred dollars a month. If I had to pay for it,
498
00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:10.159
it's covered by the system, so I am very lucky
499
00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:17.559
for that, and it gets delivered to my house by
500
00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:23.639
courier every month on time as promised. So as long
501
00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:26.800
as I can take my two pills every day, that's
502
00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:29.880
the treatment for now. And the doctor said if the
503
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:33.639
treatment stops working, there's two or three alternative treatments that
504
00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:37.159
are just as effective, so I should be good.
505
00:35:38.239 --> 00:35:42.719
Wow. Well, I sure hope. So did these experiences change
506
00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:44.760
the way you look at success?
507
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:49.639
Well, success is definitely not about making money. It never
508
00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:55.880
has been. My father, fully or wrongfully, was never concerned
509
00:35:55.880 --> 00:35:59.039
about making money. I was not brought up to be
510
00:35:59.119 --> 00:36:02.760
concerned about money. I have a friend of mine who
511
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:07.679
is father. You say rich or poor money doesn't discriminated
512
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:10.119
who you are rich or poor, it goes to you.
513
00:36:11.719 --> 00:36:14.440
And so money is to me as long as you
514
00:36:14.480 --> 00:36:18.039
have enough to live the lifestyle that you want and
515
00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:21.320
are comfortable. The more you can share with people, the
516
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:26.360
more the better you can make the world. So it's
517
00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:30.719
not about being rich, it's about being comfortable in who
518
00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:35.239
you are and being happy in your portion in life.
519
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:39.960
So that to me is more important than being rich
520
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:42.800
and famous. Being rich and famous doesn't make you a
521
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:45.199
good person. In fact, there a lot of rich and
522
00:36:45.239 --> 00:36:50.320
famous people that are very bad people. So just because
523
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:52.599
they have money, it doesn't make you a good person,
524
00:36:53.079 --> 00:36:55.880
and it doesn't make you a smart person. So money
525
00:36:55.920 --> 00:37:01.599
is not the driver. It's knowing who you are and
526
00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:04.840
being comfortable with who you are and being happy with
527
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:05.360
what you have.
528
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:12.159
I agree. It's like health, good health and being happy
529
00:37:12.519 --> 00:37:16.880
and peaceful. And a lot of rich people are miserable,
530
00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:20.159
and so it just it goes to show what's really
531
00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:24.679
important in life. So then at this stage in your life,
532
00:37:24.760 --> 00:37:26.800
what matters most to you now?
533
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:38.119
My grandchildren five wonderful grandchildren, four boys, one girl. Lucy's
534
00:37:38.119 --> 00:37:43.719
birthday was yesterday, she just turned ten. My oldest is
535
00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:53.639
turning twenty one next month. And I always my father
536
00:37:53.719 --> 00:37:57.039
always fought to hang on to life. And I asked him,
537
00:37:57.039 --> 00:37:59.599
why you're hanging on? He says, I want to see
538
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:03.000
how things turn out, and that's kind of my mind
539
00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:05.440
for now. I want to see how things turn out
540
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:09.920
with my grandchildren. So I now understand what he was saying.
541
00:38:10.519 --> 00:38:15.760
It's it's a powerful driver. And so what matters to
542
00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:21.480
me is my health, my wife's health and happiness, and
543
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:26.840
my kids and grandchildren being healthy and happy with what
544
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:32.719
they do, and that they understand that we can try
545
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:37.400
to make the world a better place by being involved
546
00:38:38.119 --> 00:38:40.360
and standing up for what we believe is right.
547
00:38:41.119 --> 00:38:44.599
Mm hmmm. Over the years, do you think aging gives
548
00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:47.960
has given you more clarity about what really matters in life?
549
00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:52.880
I think aging and understanding my ADHD better. I mean
550
00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:57.599
I didn't understand it was during my wife went into
551
00:38:57.679 --> 00:39:02.320
therapy after her leukemia tree and it was her therapist
552
00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:08.079
who said, I think that David might have ADHD. I
553
00:39:08.159 --> 00:39:13.320
reluctantly read a book called Driven to Distraction, and in
554
00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:20.960
that book is anecdotal stories of adults with ADHD. And finally,
555
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:26.679
after procrastination, as one does with ADHD, I read the
556
00:39:26.679 --> 00:39:30.280
book and identified and said, Gee, that sounds like my story.
557
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:35.000
And I was fortunate enough to find a psychiatrist here
558
00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:40.239
in Toronto who specialized an adult ADHD and a combination
559
00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:47.440
of psychotropic drugs that he prescribed and therapy. Come to
560
00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:54.079
realize there's a different way to relate to the world
561
00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:57.559
and relate to myself. So is it aging, I'd say
562
00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:05.719
it's aging. It's life experiences and finally understanding that the
563
00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:11.000
world is not as crazy as I am, and understanding
564
00:40:11.039 --> 00:40:16.840
that I can slow down and appreciate life a lot
565
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:20.840
more than always being driven in twenty different directions.
566
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:26.719
Mm hmmm. Yeah, it's definitely something that maybe not aging.
567
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:30.920
Maybe it's just being living your life and the world
568
00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:33.960
changing as well. So as we live our life, we
569
00:40:34.039 --> 00:40:36.519
go through these things and then we get these light
570
00:40:36.559 --> 00:40:39.679
bulb moments where they're like, Okay, now I understand and
571
00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:42.559
now I can finally get the help that I need
572
00:40:42.599 --> 00:40:46.920
in order to thrive. So I find it super interesting.
573
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:50.440
The more we experience life, the more we find out
574
00:40:50.519 --> 00:40:53.679
these things. Well, I think more part we're talking about
575
00:40:53.719 --> 00:40:57.000
these things now, which makes it even more easier and
576
00:40:57.039 --> 00:40:58.360
accessible for other people.
577
00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:03.039
I think part to the success of that. As my
578
00:41:03.239 --> 00:41:08.519
son Gil would point out to me, is I'm always learning.
579
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:13.119
I'm always looking at things that are different and new
580
00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:17.920
and open minded about things. And as long as you're
581
00:41:18.039 --> 00:41:23.440
learning and growing, life is a journey, you know, sort
582
00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:27.440
of death is the destination. Life is the journey, and
583
00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:30.800
as long as you're on that journey, you're okay. It's
584
00:41:30.840 --> 00:41:35.559
when you just feel you know everything and you've got
585
00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:40.960
all the answers, that's when life stops and the journey's over.
586
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:45.679
And that's kind of like not the destination I.
587
00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:52.599
Want absolutely, So anyone out there listening, what advice would
588
00:41:52.639 --> 00:41:55.440
you give younger people who might feel lost or pressured
589
00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:57.159
to have life all figured out?
590
00:41:58.840 --> 00:42:00.679
Well, first of all, you can't of your out life
591
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:04.360
because you know, one of the interview questions that people
592
00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:07.880
always asked, where you see yourself in five years? Nobody knows.
593
00:42:08.880 --> 00:42:12.840
That's a that's a that's a speculation, that's that that's
594
00:42:12.920 --> 00:42:14.920
not even a serious quote. It's not even part of
595
00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:18.360
their vision. I don't know. You know, some people don't
596
00:42:18.360 --> 00:42:19.599
know where they're going to be next year.
597
00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:26.440
Uh so, so I yeah, I say, you know, take
598
00:42:26.519 --> 00:42:30.719
life one day at a time, realize that you have
599
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:32.039
that passion about who you.
600
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:35.559
Are know what your belief system is, know what you're
601
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:40.199
passionate about, and go on a journey to build a
602
00:42:40.280 --> 00:42:44.320
life to find that and live that. Don't be don't
603
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:49.159
be frustrated with uh, you know, the fact that you
604
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:53.480
don't have the answer, because nobody has any answers other
605
00:42:53.559 --> 00:42:57.440
than the you know that can solve the world's problems.
606
00:42:57.519 --> 00:43:00.400
Otherwise we'd have a different kind of world live in.
607
00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:04.760
But understand how Understand how you want to live. Understand
608
00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:08.360
how you want to contribute to the world, and go
609
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:12.039
out and do it. And when people give you pressure
610
00:43:12.119 --> 00:43:15.280
to make more money or to to do certain things
611
00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:18.920
or buy certain things, you know, if that's not you,
612
00:43:19.039 --> 00:43:24.000
don't do it. Just be yourself and be happy with
613
00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:28.760
what you have and appreciate you know, your friends, and
614
00:43:29.880 --> 00:43:33.039
just you know, always be learning, always be open to
615
00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:41.400
new ideas. And when you're young, you've got especially if
616
00:43:41.440 --> 00:43:45.400
you're single, you've got the pleasure of if you don't
617
00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:48.639
like your boss, you don't like your company, go find
618
00:43:48.679 --> 00:43:51.760
a new job. AI is not going to AI is
619
00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:54.400
not going to take away jobs. AI is going to
620
00:43:54.480 --> 00:43:58.719
create new jobs. So some jobs might disappear, other jobs
621
00:43:58.760 --> 00:44:03.119
will appear. It's not as doom and gloom. It's not
622
00:44:03.199 --> 00:44:05.920
as depressing as you might think it is. But when
623
00:44:05.920 --> 00:44:09.840
we're young sometimes we do feel it's suppressing. When we're old,
624
00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:13.039
we feel it. You know, it's about what you make
625
00:44:13.079 --> 00:44:18.280
of life that counts. Create life. Don't let life, don't
626
00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:24.159
let things control you, control yourself, and as I say,
627
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:27.440
be happy with what you who you are, and what
628
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:27.760
you have.
629
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:34.719
What do you hope people remember about you beyond your accomplishments.
630
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:39.199
I was a good husband, a good father, and somewhere
631
00:44:39.239 --> 00:44:43.239
along the line I helped at least one or two
632
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:48.760
people be successful. I know, as an educator to be
633
00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:52.119
that was my thing was I can't help every student,
634
00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:55.400
but if I've helped a few, it was really important
635
00:44:55.400 --> 00:44:57.920
to me. I know I did from feedback I got
636
00:44:57.920 --> 00:45:01.199
from them later in life, and and the same with
637
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:04.199
people I interact with. I just hope I helped you
638
00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:10.199
be better at being yourself and be successful, and that
639
00:45:10.320 --> 00:45:12.559
I tried to make the world a better place than
640
00:45:12.599 --> 00:45:13.199
I found it.
641
00:45:14.440 --> 00:45:17.360
Yeah, well, you definitely have, and just by sharing your
642
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:21.320
story is helping so many people out there. Relating to
643
00:45:21.360 --> 00:45:24.719
you on those levels is so impactful. So thank you
644
00:45:24.760 --> 00:45:27.639
so much for sharing your story. Do you have any
645
00:45:27.719 --> 00:45:31.559
last minute thoughts you want to share or any points
646
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:34.599
that we missed. I'm just saying that so you can
647
00:45:34.679 --> 00:45:36.800
probably do like a whole series on your story.
648
00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:40.880
Well, I would say to parents who have kids with
649
00:45:40.920 --> 00:45:46.719
ADHD or who themselves have ADHD, don't let the ADHD
650
00:45:46.760 --> 00:45:51.679
define you. Everybody has a ADHD finds a coping mechanism.
651
00:45:52.000 --> 00:45:57.320
You know, it doesn't limit you. It can actually help
652
00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:01.360
you be successful. It might cause you to have certain issues,
653
00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:06.079
but with the right help and the right persistence, you
654
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:12.880
can overcome those and make your life better. Yeah, ticks
655
00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:17.960
Lexia has kind of become a celebrity, you know, infliction
656
00:46:18.159 --> 00:46:22.519
these days. Everybody seems to have it. It's difficult and
657
00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:27.400
makes life hard from the ability to read, but there
658
00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:32.239
are ways of overcoming it. And don't think it's, you know,
659
00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:37.400
a reason that you're not going to be successful. You
660
00:46:37.480 --> 00:46:40.760
can be. But you've got to have support in your
661
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:45.519
community around you, your teachers, your parents have to you know,
662
00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:50.239
my mother always would refer to me as a little
663
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:53.800
engine that could. So as long as as long as
664
00:46:53.800 --> 00:46:58.960
you keep trying and doing the right things, things can improve.
665
00:47:00.760 --> 00:47:04.880
Aimen to that. Remind everybody about the work that you
666
00:47:04.960 --> 00:47:09.199
do and your books, and your book Selecting the Best
667
00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:12.320
is going to be on sale from now until June sixth.
668
00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:17.000
You said six right on Amazon only? Yeah, on Amazon only.
669
00:47:17.480 --> 00:47:23.000
It's available now until June sixth for a significantly reduced price.
670
00:47:23.639 --> 00:47:29.039
So that's great, Please buy it. It really focuses on
671
00:47:29.800 --> 00:47:33.239
values and organizations and how to hire people to fit
672
00:47:33.320 --> 00:47:38.000
your values, and that's the way organizations create and sustain
673
00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:43.719
culture and success. So it's a roadmap for leaders to
674
00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:49.880
create even more successful organizations. I work with organizations on
675
00:47:50.360 --> 00:47:56.199
organizational culture, leadership and integrating the behaviors of their values
676
00:47:56.559 --> 00:48:00.599
into every aspect of talent management. So that's what I do.
677
00:48:01.920 --> 00:48:08.559
I'll be speaking at the Shuram Conference in Orlando in June,
678
00:48:09.159 --> 00:48:14.280
a pre conference on employee engagement and the employee experience
679
00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:19.639
and why the experienced Trump's engagement. Also speaking at the
680
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:26.960
convention for the Jamaican Employers Federation JEFF on the week
681
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:30.159
before that, I think the thirteenth, I'm doing a session
682
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:37.440
on the human impact of AI on organizations and employees.
683
00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:43.480
So I'm also speaking at JEFF. That's about what it is.
684
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:50.800
Amazing, Well, I really enjoyed hearing your story and yeah,
685
00:48:50.840 --> 00:48:52.280
thank you so much for the work that you do
686
00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:55.159
and for being a trailblazer in this world and a
687
00:48:55.199 --> 00:48:59.400
shit disturvery. Yes, amazing. Thank you so much for sharing today.
688
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:02.679
Thank you so.
689
00:49:02.800 --> 00:49:13.000
David's story reminds us that life is not linear. It's resilience, reinvention, loss, growth, family, purpose, illness, recovery, curiosity,
690
00:49:13.519 --> 00:49:18.559
and continuing forward anyway. So life. Maybe the biggest lessons
691
00:49:18.559 --> 00:49:21.840
from today's episode is that life is not becoming perfect.
692
00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:26.400
It's about continuing to grow through every chapter. So to
693
00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:29.960
learn more about David and his work at DS Cohnen Associates,
694
00:49:30.079 --> 00:49:32.760
check the links in the show notes. We'll have his
695
00:49:32.920 --> 00:49:36.760
book link there as well. And if this episode moved you,
696
00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:40.360
please follow us on the Advisor with Stacy chilemy subscribe
697
00:49:40.840 --> 00:49:43.440
on YouTube, leave us a review, and share this with
698
00:49:43.599 --> 00:49:48.239
someone who needs hope, perspective, or inspiration today. Thanks so
699
00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:51.280
much for tuning in everyone. We'll see you next time.
700
00:49:51.559 --> 00:49:52.199
Bye for now,