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Welcome to Educating the Uniquely Wired Child, the podcast where we explore the strengths, challenges, and stories of uniquely wired children and the adults who support them.
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I'm your host, Dr.
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Kristen Schempe, and today's guest is Hannah McDonald, author of The Important Shit Book, A Neurodivergent Guide to Navigating Adulthood.
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Hanna originally wrote this book for her son, but as you'll hear throughout our conversation, she was also writing from her own lived experience as a neurodivergent adult.
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The result is a practical, honest guide to all the things adulthood quietly expects us to know, from organizing, time management to work, relationships, home maintenance, travel, and everything in between.
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One of the themes that stood out to me while reading the book is the gap between what we're expected to know and what we are actually taught.
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And for many neurodivergent individuals, that gap can feel especially wide.
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So today we're going to talk about executive function, independence, spoon theory, life skills, and what it really means to support young people as they learn how to navigate adulthood on their own terms.
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So let's dive into it.
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Okay, Hannah, you wrote this book for your son, but you were also writing it for yourself.
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So how did your own neurodivergence say what we did to the book?
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Well, first of all, thank you for having me on today.
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I love what you are doing for the neurodiverse community.
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We definitely need more of it.
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And that's a really insightful question because honestly, I think I was writing the book for both of us.
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I wrote the book because I saw my son approaching adulthood and realized how many skills he was simply expected to figure out on his own.
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But as I was writing, I also found myself reflecting on my own past experiences and all the things I learned the hard way.
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I think most parents want their kids to have an easier life than they had.
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And, you know, when my son was younger, we had a lot to overcome.
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He had a lot of issues growing up.
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We were literally in survival mode every single day.
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I didn't have time to explain adulty type things to him, and he certainly wasn't ready to hear them.
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When he turned 16 and got his driver's license, he was finally ready to start hearing about adult life skills.
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And I felt like I was way behind in teaching.
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You know, I felt like I was kind of failing him in a way, not preparing him for the life ahead of him in just a few short years.
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And so we started teaching him things that I had learned at a much younger age, like how to save money and clean my room, and things I learned a little later, like how to do my laundry or schedule a doctor's appointment.
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One of the biggest ways my neurodivergence shaped the book was that I wanted to learn, you know, wanted others to learn what has taken me 25 years to learn.
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I spent a lot of years thinking I needed to be more organized or more disciplined, or just try harder.
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And that isn't always the answer.
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What helped me wasn't really becoming a different person.
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It was building better systems for myself.
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You know, using the calendar of my phone, putting sticky notes on the mirror, making checklists, creating routines, automating my bills, you know, breaking tasks into smaller steps.
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That was a big one for me.
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Those are the kinds of strategies that show up throughout the book because they're the strategies that actually work for me in real life.
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For example, if I'm cooking dinner one night, earlier in the day, I will often lay out all the pots and pans and spatulas and spices and anything else, any other dry ingredients that I can and have that already ready as step one of the cooking process.
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So later that night, when it's time to actually cook dinner, it feels less overwhelming because part of it is already done.
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It makes it a lot less overwhelming when I start cooking.
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Interesting.
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Yeah, I wanted the book to be practical, you know, neurodivergent people are given vague advice like be more responsible or get organized, but nobody explains exactly how to do that.
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So I tried to write the book that I wish someone would have handed me years ago.
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Right.
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And your and your point about feeling like you're you were behind because of your son's challenges, you felt like you were in survival mode.
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So just kind of making sure that you're you know getting through fifth grade, for example, or you're gonna, and so you that you're focusing on those just making it day to day instead of having the benefit of being able to think about what what does this look like long term?
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So I I I want I want other parents to hear that and and not feel not feel that guilt because there's a lot that goes into just getting through that those, you know, those day-to-day moments.
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Yeah, and they there can be some very difficult years.
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And you know, I felt so guilty for so many of those years.
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Like I wasn't doing my son a proper service, you know, I wasn't preparing him for life on his own.
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And that was I was really hard on myself about that.
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And I hope other parents hear that and give themselves some grace.
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Right.
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Because if your son is, if he wasn't ready, even if you had tried to to make it happen, it probably wouldn't have gone, it probably would not have gone very well.
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Yeah, no, it wouldn't.
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He he wouldn't have been receptive to listening.
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Like I said, when he turned 16, he got a car.
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We opened up a savings account for him so he could have a debit card to get gas.
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And while we were at the bank, he started asking the bank guy, you know, what is the difference between a checking and a savings account and what's this money market and what's a certificate of deposit?
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You know, these are all things he didn't know.
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And I had already kind of started the book, and I was like, well, let's write those things in the book.
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Because, you know, he he had no idea, and we don't realize how little someone knows, and I think it's a good idea to just cover all your bases.
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Right.
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Well, and I've never been a fan of the whole empty nest parent concept.
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I prefer calling myself a bird launcher instead of saying that I'm an empty nest parent.
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But you describe adulthood as being pushed out of the nest before you've learned to fly.
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And other species do not do that.
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But what do you think society assumes that people should already know that nobody actually teaches?
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Yes, I I definitely put a part in the book about baby birds.
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I was watching a David Attenborough nature special one day, and there was this scene where these birds were, they were cliff-dwelling birds, and they would just kind of scoot their babies out of the nest and just let them freefall all the way down to the beach below.
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And, you know, some of them flew off beautifully, and others kind of hit their heads on the way down.
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And, you know, I likened myself to those ones that had a little bit of a difficult time.
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And in that moment, I was like, I don't want my son that or any other young adult for that matter to have that same experience.
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You know, I think society assumes that people automatically know how to manage all the practical parts of adulthood simply because they turned 18.
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Yeah, and there's nothing magical about that number.
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Right.
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There it's not like there's a switch or something.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Just because you got a diploma doesn't mean that you're suddenly ready to make a budget or build credit or file taxes or understand insurance and you know, don't forget to eat healthy and exercise.
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You know, being an adult is very overwhelming.
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Yes.
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You know, I wasn't prepared for any of that.
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I didn't even know what a credit score was or that I needed to pay my taxes or how or when.
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Nobody ever taught me those things.
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Well, one thing I've noticed throughout the book is that you focus on adapting systems rather than changing people.
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And I'm assuming that that was intentional.
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I mean, I think that's what your messaging is.
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Oh, yes, it was very intentional.
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One of the themes that run certain people send years trying to force themselves into systems that were never designed for the way their brains work.
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When those systems fail, they often blame themselves.
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You know, like they didn't do something right and they feel guilt and shame.
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And I wanted to flip that idea around and instead of asking what's wrong with this person, I wanted people to ask, what's wrong with this system?
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And you know, like if somebody consistently forgets appointments, maybe the solution isn't, you know, try harder to remember.
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Maybe it's put a reminder with an alert sound in their phone.
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If bills are always late, maybe the solution is putting all bills on auto pay.
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If cleaning feels overwhelming, maybe break it into smaller tasks.
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Like I break, you know, cooking a meal into a smaller task.
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You know, we make accommodations for physical challenges all the time.
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We use glasses and GPS and alarm clocks, but for some reason, when it comes to executive function, people are just expected to do everything with sheer willpower and it doesn't work.
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You know, the reality is that successful people aren't the ones that remember everything and never struggle, they're the people that have built those support systems.
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Right.
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And in my last episode with Holden Thorpe, he talked about the workplace and neurodivergence.
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And he said that if you create an environment that works for neurodivergence, then it's going to work for for everyone.
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So instead of so it's the opposite of what what you said, right?
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Instead of trying to force someone to fit into a system, uh, creating a system that works for everyone is a is a much better, a much better way of going at it.
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And I think you know, we're missing out on a lot of really good leaders and managers when when we're selecting people based on certain characteristics that that sure really don't have anything to do with being a good leader or being a good manager.
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It's just what has historically been thought of as, you know, what kinds of traits and characteristics, you know, those pe those people have.
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And if you don't, then then you're not.
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So you mentioned the spoon theory in your book, and I've talked about the spoon theory in another episode.
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So but some parent, some parents are still learning about the spoon theory.
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So can you give us just a brief definition and how understanding energy can change the way that we approach everyday expectations?
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Oh, yeah.
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I use the spoons theory with my husband and my son all the time.
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You know, if I've had a busy day, I've had to work and had a lot going on, and then, you know, they want to go out to dinner, I'll I'll look at them and just be like, guys, I just don't have the spoons for that tonight.
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You guys go out and enjoy, bring me something back.
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I just don't have it in me tonight.
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So for those that may not be familiar with the spoon theory, let's say in any given day you start with 12 spoons, and each spoon is a unit of measurement of energy.
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And each task that you do takes away a few of those spoons.
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So for instance, going to the grocery store might take three spoons, cooking a meal might take two, going to work or school might take four.
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And so you can see how those add up very quickly and take away from your 12.
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And, you know, some days you may have a spoon or two left over, and that's great.
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Go out and do something, or you know, go do something you enjoy.
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Other days you may have zero spoons left.
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And at that point, that's when you need to stop and rest and take care of yourself.
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Because if you are chronically pushing yourself day after day after day, after you've lost all your spoons, you're gonna go into a state of burnout, and it's very hard to recover from that.
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I have been in that, and I don't want anybody ever to be in that position.
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But the spoon theory helps explain something that a lot of neurodivergent people have been experiencing their entire lives that, you know, energy isn't an unlimited resource.
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You know, a neurotypical person might look at a list of tasks, like five simple tasks, and be like, oh, that's easy peasy done.
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Whereas a neurodivergent person might look at that same list and see things that require planning and transitions and decision making and focus, and it's a lot harder to do those five things.
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I think it's important to understand the spoon theory kind of shifts the question from why aren't they doing this to how much energy is this actually costing them?
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And how much energy or how many spoons have they already used up today?
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And I think once parents understand that, they can become focused on prioritizing the most important things, building in recovery, building in some quiet time or some rest time and creating supports for their child instead of assuming that every task requires the same amount of effort for every person because it doesn't.
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Right.
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And to add to that, you know, one one of the things that I have tried really hard to get parents to understand is that an activity might cost three spoons one day, but another day it might be six spoons.
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So even though it's it's the same activity going into it, it might, depending on whatever's going on that day, sure, might might be more or less spoons.
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Absolutely.
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Right.
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So it's you have to take it day by day.
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Absolutely.
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And I think that an activity that I've done with students before, um, and I did it with coins and not spoons because it was just easier to manage, but I think visually seeing the the the spoons or the coins or whatever the token is, seeing them go away is is that sort of a cue or signal that I I need to to practice some self-care.
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Right.
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Absolutely.
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And sometimes we we feel selfish for taking that the time to do self-care.
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You know, we feel like we ought to be up being productive when we really need to put our own mask on first and take care of ourselves.
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Absolutely.
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So how did you decide what counted as important shit?
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And and like, and why did you make it important shit?
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Honestly, my definition of important shit was pretty simple.
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You know, if a young adult is expected to know it and nobody's teaching it, it belonged in this book.
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The name of the book actually came from a binder that I created, which I talk about in the book.
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I call it the Important Shit Binder.
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And that was made before the book was ever a thought in my mind.
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I got frustrated trying to find important paperwork, my birth certificates, you know, marriage license, uh, insurance paperwork, passport, social security cards.
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I got so frustrated of digging through these messy file folders to find those pieces of paper that I finally pulled them all out one day and created a central binder to keep them all in with tabs and, you know, in a very organized fashion.
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And I called it my important shit binder.
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And so when it was time to name the book, I was like, oh, well, this is the important shit book because it teaches all of the important shit you need to know to adult.
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I love it.
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But, you know, back to what would you know what counted as important shit.
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You know, I think any situation that kind of creates stress when I was first living independently, like managing money, understanding healthcare, getting a job, cooking, cleaning, all of those things were important details that I didn't know a lot about.
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And all of those things were the things that made it into the book.
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And sadly enough, none of those topics are particularly exciting to sit down and talk to your kids about.
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Like, you know, hey Timmy, we're gonna sit down and talk about 401ks today.
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You know, like probably doesn't want to hear about it, but I think it's important that he does hear about it.
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You know, it's important to teach about money, about investing, things like that.
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You know, you have these seemingly mundane conversations with your kids, but you're giving them knowledge and power and experience of knowing these things.
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Which is important.
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I I've told a lot of parents that have been interested in the book that it's almost best for them to go through the book with their child, because you know, telling your child to read this book, like they're gonna be like, eh, I don't need that.
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I don't want to read that.
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And I know that because that's how my son reacted.
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And, you know, I finally went through it with him and he was like, Oh, well, I didn't know all this.
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I was like, I know you didn't know all this, that's why I wrote it down.
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But if you go through it with them, you know, chapter by chapter, subject by subject, and add in your own experiences and your own knowledge on the subject, then your child gets a you know a more full rounded learning experience from it and probably has a lot more to take away from it.
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So, you know, for a lot of people I tell them use the book as a guide to guide you towards what you need to teach your child.
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I like that.
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I like the idea of reading it together and adding in your own experiences.
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Because everybody's experience is not mine, you know, everybody has their own experience and their child they know their child, you know, they know what their child needs to focus on more than I do.
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So kind of adding in those experiences, I think, makes it better so that the child can be as independent as possible.
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Absolutely.
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And to to add another way to use the book, I can see some parents using the book as a tool to give to their child because their child won't read it with them or you know, or hear it from them.
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So it might be for you know, it might be the only way that certain kids can get that information.
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Right, because my my son was having a hard time listening to me talking about it, but when I wrote it down and he read it, he was like, Oh, I didn't know that.
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Thanks, mom.
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Yeah.
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So it it's just it's all about how you approach it with your own child, and each child is going to be different, I'm sure.
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Yeah.
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So what organization advice works well for neurotypical people, but completely falls apart for many neurodivergent adults?
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I I think the biggest one is just use a planner.
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But, you know, as we all know, especially those of us with ADHD, a planner only works if you remember to open it, you remember to check it every day, to update it, and actually have it with you.
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And that's a whole series of executive function tasks in and of itself.
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For a lot of neurodiverse adults, the issue isn't knowing what needs to be done, it's remembering to do it at the right moment and having a system that's visible enough to interrupt daily life and remember what you need to do.
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Instead of asking people to adapt to the system, I would encourage them to adapt their system to their brain.
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And maybe that's phone reminders, sticky notes on the bathroom mirror, maybe a shared family calendar, bills on auto pay.
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You know, being successful is going to come from building external supports, not relying on memory.
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Absolutely.
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And we live in an age where there's so much technology that can can help with things like that.
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Yes.
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Yes.
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So it's a good thing.
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I ask Suri all the time, you know, to remind me of things.
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They'll be like, hey, Suri, remind me at 10 o'clock tomorrow to make a hair appointment, you know, or something like that.
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And if I didn't have that reminder pop up, it would have been completely out of my head for weeks before I remembered to do it again.
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Yeah.
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And it's so easy to do those reminders.
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Yeah.
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It's just, you just have to say it out loud.
00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:26.000
Yep.
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:26.960
Exactly.
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:28.160
Exactly.
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:44.079
So if a parent listening has a 15-year-old who struggles with organization, time management, self-care, independence, what's something that they should start doing tomorrow morning?
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:46.400
That is a great question.
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:55.599
And I just want to point out that first and foremost, remember that, you know, organization, time management, self-care, and independence are all four separate things.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:02.799
And if you try to tackle four separate things at a time, your child is going to get lost, or at least minded.
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:18.960
I found that I had to pick one thing at a time, make that one thing better, make it easier, find adaptations, find solutions, accommodations that made it work for him, and then start with another one.
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:25.920
So, for example, tomorrow morning, look for the most the you know, the task that causes the most difficulty.
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:30.319
Maybe it's remembering to take their meds or getting out the door on time.
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:36.559
Maybe it's keeping track of school assignments, and then ask, have a c have a conversation with them.
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:41.119
You know, how can we make this require less memory and less effort?
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:48.480
And, you know, maybe it's putting the pillbox on the kitchen table where they eat breakfast so they don't forget to take their meds.
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:56.960
Maybe it's setting an alarm 10 minutes before they need to leave instead of right at time to leave, so they still have a few more minutes to gather their things.
00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:06.079
You know, if if they're having difficulty with their schoolwork, I always labeled my son's binder, the very front pocket, said homework only.
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:12.480
And so that was the only thing that was allowed to go in that front pocket so that when when it was time to turn in his homework, he could find it.
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:17.440
Otherwise, it would end up crumpled up in the bottom of his backpack, never to be seen again.
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:27.599
You know, the goal here isn't to make your teen try harder, it's to make success easier, trying to make all of these tasks that are difficult for them easier.
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:37.680
And I think one big mistake that parents a lot, you know, make a lot is thinking that independence comes from removing support.
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.920
You know, if I step back, you know, my child's gonna figure it out.
00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:46.720
But in reality, independence comes from creating the right supports first.
00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:52.799
So helping them put those supports in place and then maybe step back a little bit.
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:57.039
You know, we don't expect somebody to navigate across the country without GPS.
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:02.240
We shouldn't expect young adults to navigate executive function challenges without tools either.
00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:02.880
Right.
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:04.559
I love that analogy.
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:17.119
And from the work that I've done with Fanlings, is that once you fix that really hard thing, the other things become much, much, much easier to tackle.
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:18.079
Yes.
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:23.519
Yes, because you you you build a trust with your child that way.
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:29.359
And they're like, okay, you know, they're really trying to help me, they're really trying to make things better.
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:34.240
You know, I'm gonna open up more and tell them why this is really holding me back.
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:40.319
And that's when you start finding real solutions, is when everybody starts getting very honest.
00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:47.359
Well, so what adult skills do you wish parents started teaching years earlier?
00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:49.519
Oh, so many, so many.
00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:54.720
Honestly, I I wish we started teaching adult skills long before we actually needed them.
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:56.720
I wish they were taught in schools.
00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:12.880
Like I said earlier, you know, we spend years teaching algebra, but you know, young adults graduate without knowing how to make a doctor's appointment or read a paycheck or create a budget, it just isn't taught in schools, so it falls on the parents to teach these life skills.
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:26.799
And that's what I meant when I said, you know, go through the book and teach these life skills because you're the only one that's going to do it, or they're gonna have to figure it out on their own and probably have some failures.
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:34.400
If I had to pick a few skills to start earlier, the biggest ones I think are you know taking care of your mental and physical health.
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:37.279
That's why they're the first two chapters in the book.
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:40.000
Because if you don't have your health, you don't have anything.
00:26:40.160 --> 00:27:05.279
I mean, especially mental health for neurodivergent population, because a lot of us have multiple conditions, you know, like I have ADHD and tremendous anxiety, and that anxiety can weigh on me, and anxiety lies to me all the time, and trying to figure out ways to calm that and keep my mental health good is a top priority to me.
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:09.680
Another one is managing money and just understanding where it goes.
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:13.759
I had no idea how to create a budget when I graduated from college.
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:21.039
I just kind of figured it out, but I wish somebody would have taught me earlier and I would have saved a lot of money that way.
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:29.359
One other thing that I think is huge is, you know, that nobody talked about to me ever until like my mid-30s.
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:31.680
I started figuring this out was investing.
00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:38.640
You know, I had started a 401k when I first started working right out of pharmacy school, but I really didn't even know what that meant.
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:40.000
I was just told I should do that.
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:41.680
And I was like, okay, I'll do that.
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:45.599
But I didn't, I didn't understand what it meant until years and years later.
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:50.400
I certainly didn't know what a Roth IRA or mutual funds or any of that was.
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:55.920
And I think it would have been important to know as a at a much younger age.
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:02.400
Another big thing, I think making appointments and communicating with medical professionals.
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:09.119
I s I think I suggested in the book kind of body double with your child to an appointment.
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:13.039
You know, go with them, but kind of stay silent unless they need you.
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:26.960
You know, let them be in charge of the appointment and ask all the questions and things like that and try to build some independence so that when they go the next time they feel more confident.
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:33.839
I also think it's helpful to know how to cook a small handful of simple meals.
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:39.519
You know, my mom was a wonderful, wonderful cook, but she didn't like anybody in the kitchen with her.
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:42.000
And so I never really learned.
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:48.960
And when I first got out on my own, I made a lot of undercooked chicken before I learned how to do it properly.
00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:54.400
And I think, you know, just understanding basic health care and medications.
00:28:54.559 --> 00:29:04.559
You know, again, I'm a pharmacist and I feel like people should be educated on their medications instead of just, you know, taking them blindly because the doctor wrote a prescription for them.
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:11.680
I think it's important for young people to look up their meds, understand the side effects and possible drug interactions.
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:17.359
And if they have questions, to please, please, please ask your pharmacist, ask your doctor.
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:19.359
That is literally our job.
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:25.200
And building on that, the biggest thing I wish I was taught earlier was to ask for help.
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:35.599
I think so many times we are embarrassed to ask questions because it's stuff that we're supposed to know already, and we end up making mistakes because we're too embarrassed to ask.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:38.799
Wow, that's those are all very important.
00:29:39.759 --> 00:30:02.880
And to your point about sharing side effects, during my conversations with a college student with ADHD, she was on the wrong ADHD medicine for years because she didn't know that that side effect was something that we shouldn't have to deal with.
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:03.680
Right?
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.440
So speaking up is so that happens frequently.
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:08.319
Yeah.
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:15.440
Well, parents, thank you for joining us for today's conversation with Hannah.
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:28.960
One of my biggest takeaways from this conversation is that many of the skills that we associate with adulthood aren't character traits, they're learned skills.
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:44.079
And when executive functioning, sensory needs, anxiety or burnout enter the picture, those school those skills often require different supports, different systems, and a lot more compassion.
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:53.119
So if you'd like to learn more about Hannah and her work, you'll find links to the her book and the show notes.
00:30:53.599 --> 00:31:06.400
If you've enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with another parent, educator, or professional who supports uniquely wired children and teens.
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:15.599
And maybe the goal isn't teaching kids to fly perfectly before they leave the nest.
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:20.640
Maybe it's helping them build the wings they need along the way.
00:00:15.279 --> 00:00:27.760
Welcome to Educating the Uniquely Wired Child, the podcast where we explore the strengths, challenges, and stories of uniquely wired children and the adults who support them.
00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:29.280
I'm your host, Dr.
00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:40.399
Kristen Schempe, and today's guest is Hannah McDonald, author of The Important Shit Book, A Neurodivergent Guide to Navigating Adulthood.
00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:51.920
Hanna originally wrote this book for her son, but as you'll hear throughout our conversation, she was also writing from her own lived experience as a neurodivergent adult.
00:00:52.159 --> 00:01:09.359
The result is a practical, honest guide to all the things adulthood quietly expects us to know, from organizing, time management to work, relationships, home maintenance, travel, and everything in between.
00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:19.760
One of the themes that stood out to me while reading the book is the gap between what we're expected to know and what we are actually taught.
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And for many neurodivergent individuals, that gap can feel especially wide.
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So today we're going to talk about executive function, independence, spoon theory, life skills, and what it really means to support young people as they learn how to navigate adulthood on their own terms.
00:01:40.799 --> 00:01:43.280
So let's dive into it.
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Okay, Hannah, you wrote this book for your son, but you were also writing it for yourself.
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So how did your own neurodivergence say what we did to the book?
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Well, first of all, thank you for having me on today.
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I love what you are doing for the neurodiverse community.
00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:04.560
We definitely need more of it.
00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:10.960
And that's a really insightful question because honestly, I think I was writing the book for both of us.
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I wrote the book because I saw my son approaching adulthood and realized how many skills he was simply expected to figure out on his own.
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But as I was writing, I also found myself reflecting on my own past experiences and all the things I learned the hard way.
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I think most parents want their kids to have an easier life than they had.
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And, you know, when my son was younger, we had a lot to overcome.
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He had a lot of issues growing up.
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We were literally in survival mode every single day.
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I didn't have time to explain adulty type things to him, and he certainly wasn't ready to hear them.
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When he turned 16 and got his driver's license, he was finally ready to start hearing about adult life skills.
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And I felt like I was way behind in teaching.
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You know, I felt like I was kind of failing him in a way, not preparing him for the life ahead of him in just a few short years.
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And so we started teaching him things that I had learned at a much younger age, like how to save money and clean my room, and things I learned a little later, like how to do my laundry or schedule a doctor's appointment.
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One of the biggest ways my neurodivergence shaped the book was that I wanted to learn, you know, wanted others to learn what has taken me 25 years to learn.
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I spent a lot of years thinking I needed to be more organized or more disciplined, or just try harder.
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And that isn't always the answer.
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What helped me wasn't really becoming a different person.
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It was building better systems for myself.
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You know, using the calendar of my phone, putting sticky notes on the mirror, making checklists, creating routines, automating my bills, you know, breaking tasks into smaller steps.
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That was a big one for me.
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Those are the kinds of strategies that show up throughout the book because they're the strategies that actually work for me in real life.
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For example, if I'm cooking dinner one night, earlier in the day, I will often lay out all the pots and pans and spatulas and spices and anything else, any other dry ingredients that I can and have that already ready as step one of the cooking process.
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So later that night, when it's time to actually cook dinner, it feels less overwhelming because part of it is already done.
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It makes it a lot less overwhelming when I start cooking.
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Interesting.
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Yeah, I wanted the book to be practical, you know, neurodivergent people are given vague advice like be more responsible or get organized, but nobody explains exactly how to do that.
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So I tried to write the book that I wish someone would have handed me years ago.
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Right.
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And your and your point about feeling like you're you were behind because of your son's challenges, you felt like you were in survival mode.
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So just kind of making sure that you're you know getting through fifth grade, for example, or you're gonna, and so you that you're focusing on those just making it day to day instead of having the benefit of being able to think about what what does this look like long term?
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So I I I want I want other parents to hear that and and not feel not feel that guilt because there's a lot that goes into just getting through that those, you know, those day-to-day moments.
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Yeah, and they there can be some very difficult years.
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And you know, I felt so guilty for so many of those years.
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Like I wasn't doing my son a proper service, you know, I wasn't preparing him for life on his own.
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And that was I was really hard on myself about that.
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And I hope other parents hear that and give themselves some grace.
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Right.
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Because if your son is, if he wasn't ready, even if you had tried to to make it happen, it probably wouldn't have gone, it probably would not have gone very well.
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Yeah, no, it wouldn't.
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He he wouldn't have been receptive to listening.
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Like I said, when he turned 16, he got a car.
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We opened up a savings account for him so he could have a debit card to get gas.
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And while we were at the bank, he started asking the bank guy, you know, what is the difference between a checking and a savings account and what's this money market and what's a certificate of deposit?
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You know, these are all things he didn't know.
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And I had already kind of started the book, and I was like, well, let's write those things in the book.
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Because, you know, he he had no idea, and we don't realize how little someone knows, and I think it's a good idea to just cover all your bases.
00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:03.920
Right.
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Well, and I've never been a fan of the whole empty nest parent concept.
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I prefer calling myself a bird launcher instead of saying that I'm an empty nest parent.
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But you describe adulthood as being pushed out of the nest before you've learned to fly.
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And other species do not do that.
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But what do you think society assumes that people should already know that nobody actually teaches?
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Yes, I I definitely put a part in the book about baby birds.
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I was watching a David Attenborough nature special one day, and there was this scene where these birds were, they were cliff-dwelling birds, and they would just kind of scoot their babies out of the nest and just let them freefall all the way down to the beach below.
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And, you know, some of them flew off beautifully, and others kind of hit their heads on the way down.
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And, you know, I likened myself to those ones that had a little bit of a difficult time.
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And in that moment, I was like, I don't want my son that or any other young adult for that matter to have that same experience.
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You know, I think society assumes that people automatically know how to manage all the practical parts of adulthood simply because they turned 18.
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Yeah, and there's nothing magical about that number.
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Right.
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There it's not like there's a switch or something.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Just because you got a diploma doesn't mean that you're suddenly ready to make a budget or build credit or file taxes or understand insurance and you know, don't forget to eat healthy and exercise.
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You know, being an adult is very overwhelming.
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Yes.
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You know, I wasn't prepared for any of that.
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I didn't even know what a credit score was or that I needed to pay my taxes or how or when.
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Nobody ever taught me those things.
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Well, one thing I've noticed throughout the book is that you focus on adapting systems rather than changing people.
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And I'm assuming that that was intentional.
00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:16.480
I mean, I think that's what your messaging is.
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Oh, yes, it was very intentional.
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One of the themes that run certain people send years trying to force themselves into systems that were never designed for the way their brains work.
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When those systems fail, they often blame themselves.
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You know, like they didn't do something right and they feel guilt and shame.
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And I wanted to flip that idea around and instead of asking what's wrong with this person, I wanted people to ask, what's wrong with this system?
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And you know, like if somebody consistently forgets appointments, maybe the solution isn't, you know, try harder to remember.
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Maybe it's put a reminder with an alert sound in their phone.
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If bills are always late, maybe the solution is putting all bills on auto pay.
00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:04.799
If cleaning feels overwhelming, maybe break it into smaller tasks.
00:10:04.879 --> 00:10:09.039
Like I break, you know, cooking a meal into a smaller task.
00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:13.279
You know, we make accommodations for physical challenges all the time.
00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:25.279
We use glasses and GPS and alarm clocks, but for some reason, when it comes to executive function, people are just expected to do everything with sheer willpower and it doesn't work.
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You know, the reality is that successful people aren't the ones that remember everything and never struggle, they're the people that have built those support systems.
00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:35.840
Right.
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And in my last episode with Holden Thorpe, he talked about the workplace and neurodivergence.
00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:55.679
And he said that if you create an environment that works for neurodivergence, then it's going to work for for everyone.
00:10:55.919 --> 00:10:59.679
So instead of so it's the opposite of what what you said, right?
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Instead of trying to force someone to fit into a system, uh, creating a system that works for everyone is a is a much better, a much better way of going at it.
00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:32.639
And I think you know, we're missing out on a lot of really good leaders and managers when when we're selecting people based on certain characteristics that that sure really don't have anything to do with being a good leader or being a good manager.
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It's just what has historically been thought of as, you know, what kinds of traits and characteristics, you know, those pe those people have.
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And if you don't, then then you're not.
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So you mentioned the spoon theory in your book, and I've talked about the spoon theory in another episode.
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So but some parent, some parents are still learning about the spoon theory.
00:11:58.559 --> 00:12:10.399
So can you give us just a brief definition and how understanding energy can change the way that we approach everyday expectations?
00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:11.279
Oh, yeah.
00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:16.080
I use the spoons theory with my husband and my son all the time.
00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:27.919
You know, if I've had a busy day, I've had to work and had a lot going on, and then, you know, they want to go out to dinner, I'll I'll look at them and just be like, guys, I just don't have the spoons for that tonight.
00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:30.639
You guys go out and enjoy, bring me something back.
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I just don't have it in me tonight.
00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:44.720
So for those that may not be familiar with the spoon theory, let's say in any given day you start with 12 spoons, and each spoon is a unit of measurement of energy.
00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:48.879
And each task that you do takes away a few of those spoons.
00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:57.519
So for instance, going to the grocery store might take three spoons, cooking a meal might take two, going to work or school might take four.
00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:02.159
And so you can see how those add up very quickly and take away from your 12.
00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:06.000
And, you know, some days you may have a spoon or two left over, and that's great.
00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:09.519
Go out and do something, or you know, go do something you enjoy.
00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:13.039
Other days you may have zero spoons left.
00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:17.200
And at that point, that's when you need to stop and rest and take care of yourself.
00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:29.919
Because if you are chronically pushing yourself day after day after day, after you've lost all your spoons, you're gonna go into a state of burnout, and it's very hard to recover from that.
00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:34.240
I have been in that, and I don't want anybody ever to be in that position.
00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:46.080
But the spoon theory helps explain something that a lot of neurodivergent people have been experiencing their entire lives that, you know, energy isn't an unlimited resource.
00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:53.360
You know, a neurotypical person might look at a list of tasks, like five simple tasks, and be like, oh, that's easy peasy done.
00:13:53.679 --> 00:14:05.120
Whereas a neurodivergent person might look at that same list and see things that require planning and transitions and decision making and focus, and it's a lot harder to do those five things.
00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:15.919
I think it's important to understand the spoon theory kind of shifts the question from why aren't they doing this to how much energy is this actually costing them?
00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:20.240
And how much energy or how many spoons have they already used up today?
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:39.679
And I think once parents understand that, they can become focused on prioritizing the most important things, building in recovery, building in some quiet time or some rest time and creating supports for their child instead of assuming that every task requires the same amount of effort for every person because it doesn't.
00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:40.559
Right.
00:14:40.879 --> 00:14:57.919
And to add to that, you know, one one of the things that I have tried really hard to get parents to understand is that an activity might cost three spoons one day, but another day it might be six spoons.
00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:11.600
So even though it's it's the same activity going into it, it might, depending on whatever's going on that day, sure, might might be more or less spoons.
00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:12.960
Absolutely.
00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:13.360
Right.
00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:15.840
So it's you have to take it day by day.
00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:17.440
Absolutely.
00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:50.799
And I think that an activity that I've done with students before, um, and I did it with coins and not spoons because it was just easier to manage, but I think visually seeing the the the spoons or the coins or whatever the token is, seeing them go away is is that sort of a cue or signal that I I need to to practice some self-care.
00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:52.639
Right.
00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:54.480
Absolutely.
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:59.600
And sometimes we we feel selfish for taking that the time to do self-care.
00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:07.120
You know, we feel like we ought to be up being productive when we really need to put our own mask on first and take care of ourselves.
00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:09.200
Absolutely.
00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:15.039
So how did you decide what counted as important shit?
00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:20.320
And and like, and why did you make it important shit?
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:26.320
Honestly, my definition of important shit was pretty simple.
00:16:26.399 --> 00:16:32.159
You know, if a young adult is expected to know it and nobody's teaching it, it belonged in this book.
00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:40.159
The name of the book actually came from a binder that I created, which I talk about in the book.
00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:42.240
I call it the Important Shit Binder.
00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:46.240
And that was made before the book was ever a thought in my mind.
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:56.159
I got frustrated trying to find important paperwork, my birth certificates, you know, marriage license, uh, insurance paperwork, passport, social security cards.
00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:12.240
I got so frustrated of digging through these messy file folders to find those pieces of paper that I finally pulled them all out one day and created a central binder to keep them all in with tabs and, you know, in a very organized fashion.
00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:15.039
And I called it my important shit binder.
00:17:15.119 --> 00:17:23.200
And so when it was time to name the book, I was like, oh, well, this is the important shit book because it teaches all of the important shit you need to know to adult.
00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:25.680
I love it.
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:30.880
But, you know, back to what would you know what counted as important shit.
00:17:31.599 --> 00:17:49.359
You know, I think any situation that kind of creates stress when I was first living independently, like managing money, understanding healthcare, getting a job, cooking, cleaning, all of those things were important details that I didn't know a lot about.
00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:53.359
And all of those things were the things that made it into the book.
00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:59.759
And sadly enough, none of those topics are particularly exciting to sit down and talk to your kids about.
00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:05.359
Like, you know, hey Timmy, we're gonna sit down and talk about 401ks today.
00:18:05.599 --> 00:18:11.839
You know, like probably doesn't want to hear about it, but I think it's important that he does hear about it.
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:16.720
You know, it's important to teach about money, about investing, things like that.
00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:26.799
You know, you have these seemingly mundane conversations with your kids, but you're giving them knowledge and power and experience of knowing these things.
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:28.880
Which is important.
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:45.680
I I've told a lot of parents that have been interested in the book that it's almost best for them to go through the book with their child, because you know, telling your child to read this book, like they're gonna be like, eh, I don't need that.
00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:47.039
I don't want to read that.
00:18:47.279 --> 00:18:50.160
And I know that because that's how my son reacted.
00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:54.000
And, you know, I finally went through it with him and he was like, Oh, well, I didn't know all this.
00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:57.279
I was like, I know you didn't know all this, that's why I wrote it down.
00:18:57.440 --> 00:19:16.319
But if you go through it with them, you know, chapter by chapter, subject by subject, and add in your own experiences and your own knowledge on the subject, then your child gets a you know a more full rounded learning experience from it and probably has a lot more to take away from it.
00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:23.759
So, you know, for a lot of people I tell them use the book as a guide to guide you towards what you need to teach your child.
00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:25.279
I like that.
00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:32.799
I like the idea of reading it together and adding in your own experiences.
00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:45.599
Because everybody's experience is not mine, you know, everybody has their own experience and their child they know their child, you know, they know what their child needs to focus on more than I do.
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:53.680
So kind of adding in those experiences, I think, makes it better so that the child can be as independent as possible.
00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:55.279
Absolutely.
00:19:55.519 --> 00:20:15.759
And to to add another way to use the book, I can see some parents using the book as a tool to give to their child because their child won't read it with them or you know, or hear it from them.
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:23.279
So it might be for you know, it might be the only way that certain kids can get that information.
00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:32.720
Right, because my my son was having a hard time listening to me talking about it, but when I wrote it down and he read it, he was like, Oh, I didn't know that.
00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:33.839
Thanks, mom.
00:20:34.240 --> 00:20:34.799
Yeah.
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:42.480
So it it's just it's all about how you approach it with your own child, and each child is going to be different, I'm sure.
00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:43.279
Yeah.
00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:53.359
So what organization advice works well for neurotypical people, but completely falls apart for many neurodivergent adults?
00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.960
I I think the biggest one is just use a planner.
00:20:57.279 --> 00:21:07.680
But, you know, as we all know, especially those of us with ADHD, a planner only works if you remember to open it, you remember to check it every day, to update it, and actually have it with you.
00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:12.559
And that's a whole series of executive function tasks in and of itself.
00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:26.000
For a lot of neurodiverse adults, the issue isn't knowing what needs to be done, it's remembering to do it at the right moment and having a system that's visible enough to interrupt daily life and remember what you need to do.
00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:33.920
Instead of asking people to adapt to the system, I would encourage them to adapt their system to their brain.
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:41.599
And maybe that's phone reminders, sticky notes on the bathroom mirror, maybe a shared family calendar, bills on auto pay.
00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:48.079
You know, being successful is going to come from building external supports, not relying on memory.
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:49.200
Absolutely.
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:56.240
And we live in an age where there's so much technology that can can help with things like that.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:57.359
Yes.
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:58.720
Yes.
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:00.960
So it's a good thing.
00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:04.400
I ask Suri all the time, you know, to remind me of things.
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:10.480
They'll be like, hey, Suri, remind me at 10 o'clock tomorrow to make a hair appointment, you know, or something like that.
00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:19.039
And if I didn't have that reminder pop up, it would have been completely out of my head for weeks before I remembered to do it again.
00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:19.599
Yeah.
00:22:19.839 --> 00:22:22.079
And it's so easy to do those reminders.
00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:22.880
Yeah.
00:22:23.119 --> 00:22:25.200
It's just, you just have to say it out loud.
00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:26.000
Yep.
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:26.960
Exactly.
00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:28.160
Exactly.
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:44.079
So if a parent listening has a 15-year-old who struggles with organization, time management, self-care, independence, what's something that they should start doing tomorrow morning?
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:46.400
That is a great question.
00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:55.599
And I just want to point out that first and foremost, remember that, you know, organization, time management, self-care, and independence are all four separate things.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:02.799
And if you try to tackle four separate things at a time, your child is going to get lost, or at least minded.
00:23:03.279 --> 00:23:18.960
I found that I had to pick one thing at a time, make that one thing better, make it easier, find adaptations, find solutions, accommodations that made it work for him, and then start with another one.
00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:25.920
So, for example, tomorrow morning, look for the most the you know, the task that causes the most difficulty.
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:30.319
Maybe it's remembering to take their meds or getting out the door on time.
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:36.559
Maybe it's keeping track of school assignments, and then ask, have a c have a conversation with them.
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:41.119
You know, how can we make this require less memory and less effort?
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:48.480
And, you know, maybe it's putting the pillbox on the kitchen table where they eat breakfast so they don't forget to take their meds.
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:56.960
Maybe it's setting an alarm 10 minutes before they need to leave instead of right at time to leave, so they still have a few more minutes to gather their things.
00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:06.079
You know, if if they're having difficulty with their schoolwork, I always labeled my son's binder, the very front pocket, said homework only.
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:12.480
And so that was the only thing that was allowed to go in that front pocket so that when when it was time to turn in his homework, he could find it.
00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:17.440
Otherwise, it would end up crumpled up in the bottom of his backpack, never to be seen again.
00:24:17.839 --> 00:24:27.599
You know, the goal here isn't to make your teen try harder, it's to make success easier, trying to make all of these tasks that are difficult for them easier.
00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:37.680
And I think one big mistake that parents a lot, you know, make a lot is thinking that independence comes from removing support.
00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:41.920
You know, if I step back, you know, my child's gonna figure it out.
00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:46.720
But in reality, independence comes from creating the right supports first.
00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:52.799
So helping them put those supports in place and then maybe step back a little bit.
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:57.039
You know, we don't expect somebody to navigate across the country without GPS.
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:02.240
We shouldn't expect young adults to navigate executive function challenges without tools either.
00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:02.880
Right.
00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:04.559
I love that analogy.
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:17.119
And from the work that I've done with Fanlings, is that once you fix that really hard thing, the other things become much, much, much easier to tackle.
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:18.079
Yes.
00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:23.519
Yes, because you you you build a trust with your child that way.
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:29.359
And they're like, okay, you know, they're really trying to help me, they're really trying to make things better.
00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:34.240
You know, I'm gonna open up more and tell them why this is really holding me back.
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:40.319
And that's when you start finding real solutions, is when everybody starts getting very honest.
00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:47.359
Well, so what adult skills do you wish parents started teaching years earlier?
00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:49.519
Oh, so many, so many.
00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:54.720
Honestly, I I wish we started teaching adult skills long before we actually needed them.
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:56.720
I wish they were taught in schools.
00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:12.880
Like I said earlier, you know, we spend years teaching algebra, but you know, young adults graduate without knowing how to make a doctor's appointment or read a paycheck or create a budget, it just isn't taught in schools, so it falls on the parents to teach these life skills.
00:26:13.039 --> 00:26:26.799
And that's what I meant when I said, you know, go through the book and teach these life skills because you're the only one that's going to do it, or they're gonna have to figure it out on their own and probably have some failures.
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:34.400
If I had to pick a few skills to start earlier, the biggest ones I think are you know taking care of your mental and physical health.
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:37.279
That's why they're the first two chapters in the book.
00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:40.000
Because if you don't have your health, you don't have anything.
00:26:40.160 --> 00:27:05.279
I mean, especially mental health for neurodivergent population, because a lot of us have multiple conditions, you know, like I have ADHD and tremendous anxiety, and that anxiety can weigh on me, and anxiety lies to me all the time, and trying to figure out ways to calm that and keep my mental health good is a top priority to me.
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:09.680
Another one is managing money and just understanding where it goes.
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:13.759
I had no idea how to create a budget when I graduated from college.
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:21.039
I just kind of figured it out, but I wish somebody would have taught me earlier and I would have saved a lot of money that way.
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:29.359
One other thing that I think is huge is, you know, that nobody talked about to me ever until like my mid-30s.
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:31.680
I started figuring this out was investing.
00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:38.640
You know, I had started a 401k when I first started working right out of pharmacy school, but I really didn't even know what that meant.
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:40.000
I was just told I should do that.
00:27:40.079 --> 00:27:41.680
And I was like, okay, I'll do that.
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:45.599
But I didn't, I didn't understand what it meant until years and years later.
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:50.400
I certainly didn't know what a Roth IRA or mutual funds or any of that was.
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:55.920
And I think it would have been important to know as a at a much younger age.
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:02.400
Another big thing, I think making appointments and communicating with medical professionals.
00:28:03.279 --> 00:28:09.119
I s I think I suggested in the book kind of body double with your child to an appointment.
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:13.039
You know, go with them, but kind of stay silent unless they need you.
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:26.960
You know, let them be in charge of the appointment and ask all the questions and things like that and try to build some independence so that when they go the next time they feel more confident.
00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:33.839
I also think it's helpful to know how to cook a small handful of simple meals.
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:39.519
You know, my mom was a wonderful, wonderful cook, but she didn't like anybody in the kitchen with her.
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:42.000
And so I never really learned.
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:48.960
And when I first got out on my own, I made a lot of undercooked chicken before I learned how to do it properly.
00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:54.400
And I think, you know, just understanding basic health care and medications.
00:28:54.559 --> 00:29:04.559
You know, again, I'm a pharmacist and I feel like people should be educated on their medications instead of just, you know, taking them blindly because the doctor wrote a prescription for them.
00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:11.680
I think it's important for young people to look up their meds, understand the side effects and possible drug interactions.
00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:17.359
And if they have questions, to please, please, please ask your pharmacist, ask your doctor.
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:19.359
That is literally our job.
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:25.200
And building on that, the biggest thing I wish I was taught earlier was to ask for help.
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:35.599
I think so many times we are embarrassed to ask questions because it's stuff that we're supposed to know already, and we end up making mistakes because we're too embarrassed to ask.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:38.799
Wow, that's those are all very important.
00:29:39.759 --> 00:30:02.880
And to your point about sharing side effects, during my conversations with a college student with ADHD, she was on the wrong ADHD medicine for years because she didn't know that that side effect was something that we shouldn't have to deal with.
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:03.680
Right?
00:30:04.559 --> 00:30:07.440
So speaking up is so that happens frequently.
00:30:08.000 --> 00:30:08.319
Yeah.
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:15.440
Well, parents, thank you for joining us for today's conversation with Hannah.
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:28.960
One of my biggest takeaways from this conversation is that many of the skills that we associate with adulthood aren't character traits, they're learned skills.
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:44.079
And when executive functioning, sensory needs, anxiety or burnout enter the picture, those school those skills often require different supports, different systems, and a lot more compassion.
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:53.119
So if you'd like to learn more about Hannah and her work, you'll find links to the her book and the show notes.
00:30:53.599 --> 00:31:06.400
If you've enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing, leaving a review, or sharing it with another parent, educator, or professional who supports uniquely wired children and teens.
00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:15.599
And maybe the goal isn't teaching kids to fly perfectly before they leave the nest.
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:20.640
Maybe it's helping them build the wings they need along the way.
