Hogan Roundtable

WEBVTT
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:08.240
But the other way I I think is in how we are sort of like a family, maybe a like a weird, mildly dysfunctional one at times.
00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:18.640
But um, I don't know if you can see behind me, but the those pictures on my wall, I have my children, my husband, my dog, and I have Paris's up there, Jennifer's up there.
00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:22.399
On my these people are my family at Hogan.
00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:24.640
And there are a few others up there as well.
00:00:24.879 --> 00:00:32.000
But I think that we are a company who cares deeply about our our work and our customers, but also each other.
00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:46.240
And you know, I shared a little bit at the beginning about why I came here and why I wasn't in kind of fell in love with Hogan, the company, the concept, the mission, but different things at different points in time have kind of kept me here.
00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:51.119
People are the most consequential and dangerous forces on earth.
00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:54.960
Personality psychology is about the nature of human nature, it's about people.
00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:57.039
And wouldn't that be useful to know?
00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:01.840
Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Science of Personality Podcast.
00:01:01.920 --> 00:01:07.920
I'm your host, Blake Lepp, and I'm joined again by my co-host Jackie Somme for a conversation with two special guests.
00:01:08.159 --> 00:01:12.719
First, I'd like to introduce Christopher Duffy, Hogan's Director of Strategic Accounts.
00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:20.799
Chris has been with Hogan for almost two decades, and during his tenure, he has worked directly with some of the largest companies in the world and continues to do so.
00:01:21.040 --> 00:01:25.840
Our other guest is Jennifer Lowe, Hogan's Director of Solution Delivery and Learning.
00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:36.879
Jennifer, or J Lo, as we commonly know her at Hogan, has also been at Hogan for nearly 20 years, working closely with a variety of clients in the public, private, and government sectors.
00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:43.760
So when you combine Chris, Jennifer, and Jackie's time at Hogan, we're talking about nearly 60 years of experience.
00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:46.560
And that's exactly why we wanted to do this episode.
00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:59.439
Today, I plan to tap into that knowledge, expertise, and Hogan longevity so they can share their stories, whether it's their favorite client projects, their biggest challenges, or just some of their favorite tales from their time at Hogan.
00:01:59.920 --> 00:02:04.959
So strap in and get ready for a fascinating journey through Hogan history and lore.
00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:20.400
But before we get to our conversation, if you wish to give us any ideas for upcoming episodes, or you want to ask us a question, shoot us an email at hello at the science of personality.com or drop a comment on this YouTube video or follow the science of personality on LinkedIn.
00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:22.719
Now, let's get to it.
00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:25.439
Chris, Jennifer, welcome to the podcast.
00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:28.879
Is there anything you'd like to share with our audience before we get started?
00:02:29.360 --> 00:02:30.400
Hey, thanks, Blake.
00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:35.439
Um, when I got the initial request, I couldn't believe that it had been almost 20 years since I've been at Hogan.
00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:41.520
Over that time, I've had the privilege of working with some amazing clients, some extremely talented uh colleagues.
00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:52.719
So I was really happy to see our topic today, and we get to share some of those experiences, especially that I got to share the stage with Jennifer, because she and I have shared many of those experiences along our journey at Hogan.
00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:56.080
We have indeed, Chris.
00:02:56.319 --> 00:02:59.919
Um Jackie, thank you for the invitation.
00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:04.240
Really looking forward to the discussion today and the walk down memory line.
00:03:04.400 --> 00:03:06.560
Um I know we're trying to keep a PG today.
00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:13.919
There can certainly be some interesting stories here at Hogan, but really looking forward to sharing the journey with everyone.
00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:17.680
Well, Jackie, I mean, you've worked with both of these people for a while.
00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:22.479
So uh what were your thoughts whenever I brought this idea to you for this episode?
00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:32.319
Yeah, I mean, uh first of all, there are two, there are no two other people I'd rather sit around a campfire with and and share stories from yesteryear.
00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:39.439
Um, but more importantly, there aren't two other people I'd rather jump into a foxhole with than these two that are sitting right here.
00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:46.080
So we've really been through a lot together the good, the bad, the unspeakable, um, and everything in between.
00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:56.000
So uh this is gonna be fun for us on on multiple levels, but also just really um really enjoyable to take a walk down memory lane together.
00:03:57.680 --> 00:03:59.680
Well, I mean, I've been at Hogan for 12 years.
00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:04.479
And so whenever I got to Hogan, I mean, the three of you seem like really seasoned vets.
00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:10.319
And you know, now I'm here 12 years, I'm thinking, oh my gosh, you know, but you also feel like kind of like that.
00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:24.720
I I know, but uh it still feels like I think now that because I have the shortest tenure at Hogan at 12 years compared to the two of or the three of you, uh, it it almost feels like you all are part of that that old guard.
00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:26.560
Forgive me for saying old.
00:04:26.639 --> 00:04:44.160
I don't mean that in the in the the age uh uh context, but I actually just mean that because you know, you all you all had already seen a ton of stuff by the time I got there, and you know, I didn't know anything about this field, and I've learned so much from from all of you in in this time.
00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:47.360
So I appreciate that, and I appreciate you taking the time for this.
00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:49.279
So let's jump right in.
00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:54.480
You know, Chris, Jennifer, I mentioned in the intro that the two of you have been at Hogan for you know quite some time.
00:04:54.720 --> 00:05:03.839
In fact, you're two of the longest tenured employees in Hogan history, not just who's at Hogan now, but who's been at Hogan before.
00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:08.720
So that begs the question: what is it about Hogan that's kept you here for so long?
00:05:09.120 --> 00:05:14.480
Thanks, like that's a question that has definitely required um you know some reflection.
00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:20.000
It's been it's been a long journey, and you know, I think probably similar to Jackie in a lot of ways.
00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:22.079
We have we've grown up at Hogan.
00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:26.399
The organization has really changed and evolved.
00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:40.160
Um, when I started at Hogan, I think there were 40 employees, and the vast majority of us um you know sat in one building and spent you know our days sharing offices and collaborating.
00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:54.000
And I think that's one of the things that really continues to keep me at Hogan is just the opportunity to work with really amazing, brilliant, creative people who continue to challenge me every day.
00:05:54.160 --> 00:05:56.879
Um, it really has been an adventure.
00:05:57.120 --> 00:06:09.279
Our client engagements really give us the opportunity to think about how we're gonna apply the assessments, and you know, we continue to grow and evolve.
00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:12.800
So for me, it's been about you know the continued challenge and opportunity.
00:06:12.959 --> 00:06:19.439
And even after 18 years, each day is kind of starting anew, something new and different to look forward to.
00:06:21.600 --> 00:06:22.560
Yeah, thanks, Blake.
00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:29.759
And the only thing I'd add to that as well, I have a kind of Hogan profile that tell you I'd never be at any one organization for almost 20 years.
00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:32.639
I like variety, I like change, I like challenge.
00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:36.720
I think those are all things that Hogan has provided to me over my career.
00:06:36.959 --> 00:06:38.319
Jennifer was spot on.
00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:42.319
We work with some of the most talented people in the entire industry.
00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:46.399
We solve really complex and challenging problems for our clients.
00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:54.720
So I think just that continued uh feed of those values is really what's kept me here at Hogan.
00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:56.079
It's kept me extremely satisfied.
00:06:56.319 --> 00:07:01.519
And really, as I think in reflection, it just amazes me that I've been here as long as I've been.
00:07:01.600 --> 00:07:09.600
And as I was preparing for this particular session, it made you realize that we have accomplished a lot over those 20 years at Hogan.
00:07:11.199 --> 00:07:12.000
It's funny you say that.
00:07:12.480 --> 00:07:12.800
What about you?
00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:25.199
Yeah, I was just gonna say, I we didn't co corroborate on this, but I was gonna share that for those of you who are Hogan certified, I have very low security, single-digit, very low tradition score.
00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:33.120
So I'm the kind of person you would not expect to stay at a company for two years, let alone, you know, almost 20.
00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:36.000
So um, same, same, Chris.
00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:49.600
I think when I think back on what why I why I'm here, what drew me here, I I recall with such crisp um recollection the first day I walked into the building at Hogan.
00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:56.800
And it was the it is a very unusual and in my opinion, a wonderful culture at Hogan at that time.
00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:01.279
And it's changed a little bit over time, but there are some things that have stayed evergreen.
00:08:01.519 --> 00:08:14.639
And here are these people walking around in blue jeans and flip-flops or sneakers, and they're some of the most brilliant minds in the profession, but they come as they are, and they're dogs running around the building.
00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:32.240
It's um it's a workplace where you get to be yourself, and yet you are challenged every single day by, to Jennifer's point, the creative, brilliant people, both inside our company, but also the clients that we work with are just tremendous.
00:08:32.399 --> 00:08:37.120
We we call many of them friends, in addition to colleagues and customers.
00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:55.759
Um, and you know, despite the fact that it was this casual come as you are culture, you get out on the road and you get in front of customers, and here's the same person who wore flip-flops yesterday, and they're standing in a three-piece suit and just just dazzling the the crowd at a presentation or a conference.
00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:00.879
So um it was this juxtaposition that was really fascinating to me.
00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:16.480
And then beyond that, the content itself, you know, what we work with, the signs of personality to me, I think to many others, if you're listening to this podcast, you may uh be in in good company with uh with the four of us here, but it's endlessly fascinating.
00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:19.919
I am learning constantly every single day.
00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:29.919
I always find something new to be intrigued by, or some other facet of what we do to go down a rabbit hole and do research on or or think deeply about.
00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:42.000
So I think um it's one thing to like the mechanics of your job, but it's another thing to have a like a deep intellectual connection with the work that you do and the and therefore the people that you do that work with.
00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:44.799
So I think that's a huge part of what keeps me here.
00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:47.200
And I'm and I think many others share that.
00:09:47.519 --> 00:10:03.120
And the last thing I would say, and I'm I think you know, Jennifer and Chris are just getting warmed up here, but I know for a fact, because I've worked with these people, two people very, very closely over these 19 years, um, our purpose.
00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:11.600
I mean, we're a very mission-directed company, and I think that's a huge part of what draws people here, but also what keeps their commitment to the organization.
00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:23.519
You know, I want to echo something Chris said, and I I think um, you know, you mentioned values uh specifically, and you know, I mentioned earlier, I'm I've been at Hogan for 12 years, you know, that's still quite a while.
00:10:23.759 --> 00:10:34.799
Um I came out of college or you know, university, whatever you want to call it, and I spent my first five years at a at a PR agency in Tulsa, and I was like, okay, that's a good start, you know.
00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:43.840
I got a lot of good experience, but a a client hired me as a marketing director at a at a bank, and I went there, thought I was gonna love it.
00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:45.919
I'd worked with them for two, three years.
00:10:46.080 --> 00:10:49.039
I got there, and I didn't know anything about values at the time.
00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:51.039
I didn't I didn't know anything about Hogan.
00:10:51.440 --> 00:11:08.720
And I was only there for a year and a half, and I was I got bored, some wasn't clicking, and the opportunity at Hogan presented itself, and I interviewed, and I it felt right for me to leave the the job I was at, even though I was only there a year and a half.
00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:15.120
And I didn't know until after a couple years at Hogan, I realized my values weren't aligned with that organization.
00:11:15.200 --> 00:11:19.519
You know, you know, I think a bank, you know, you think high commerce, maybe high tradition.
00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:23.440
Well, I'm single digits on both of those.
00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:24.799
And I didn't know that at the time.
00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:27.279
And that's looking back, that's the reason.
00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:33.120
I was the fit for the job from a tech like from a if you look at the bright side, you know, the HPI, you know, you look at that.
00:11:33.279 --> 00:11:37.200
I was a good fit for the job, but not a good fit for the organization.
00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:39.759
And it was better for both of us to go our separate ways.
00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:43.360
So uh happy to be at Hogan, happy to be having this conversation.
00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:45.679
So let's move on to our the next question.
00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:48.879
You know, Chris, Jennifer, the two of you have countless client stories.
00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:50.320
I mean, I can't even imagine.
00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:52.720
I mean, I don't even know most of them.
00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:56.879
Uh, so I'm actually kind of like the the listener, part of the audience here.
00:11:57.039 --> 00:12:07.679
I'm I'm curious if you can, you know, there's some client stories you can share, some you can't, but uh would each of you mind sharing a story that stands out as particularly fun or memorable?
00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:09.039
Yeah, for sure, Blake.
00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:09.840
I'll get us started.
00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:19.440
Um, I've had the privilege of working across a pretty diverse client base over my career at Hogan, most of that work in leadership development, executive selection, executive development.
00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:24.000
Uh, but about six years ago, we had the opportunity to start working in professional sports.
00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:31.600
Um, and it's been a real fun and interesting departure that started with um we inserted Hogan into the NFL draft.
00:12:31.679 --> 00:12:35.039
And so for the last six years, we've been part of the NFL draft.
00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:43.840
And it's really, really interesting to take action of what I do at work and transfer that into something that I'm very interested in on the personal side.
00:12:44.000 --> 00:12:46.320
And so we've seen that expand and that growth.
00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:54.559
We're part of helping many NFL teams select and uh maximize performance of players that they have on their team.
00:12:54.720 --> 00:13:09.360
We've helped a handful of teams make sure that they have the right staff on board, and that staff has awareness around those players, how they best coach those players, how they best uh again maximize performance that expanded into the uh MBA.
00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:22.879
So our work in the NFL got us into the MBAs we've been supporting for the last three years, the MBA draft, um, helping organizations and teams make selections on players as they bring them in and consider the culture and the dynamics of the team.
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:26.720
And then most recently, we've expanded into the major leagues as well.
00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:40.240
So and it always fascinates me when I think about client stories is that we go into organizations with one of these different disciplines, these different sports, and we think that the challenges are different, but in many cases they share very, very similar challenges.
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:48.559
And so we're able to kind of transfer some of that knowledge that we've learned in one professional sport to help teams across uh other professional sports.
00:13:48.720 --> 00:13:56.000
So over the last really six or seven years, it's been it's been a fun departure from the norm, and I think we've made a tremendous impact.
00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:05.120
And it's always fun to see um the results of our efforts play out in front of us uh and and and the national audience and TVs on the weekends.
00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:07.039
So it's just been a fun departure.
00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:08.720
What about you?
00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:22.399
Oh, I I was just you know thinking about what Chris was sharing, and you know, so much of the work we get to do is really focusing on the you know the all-stars, whether it be on you know on the football field or in the the C-suite.
00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:28.799
And one of the more memorable client experiences that come to mind for me was was really all about that.
00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:49.440
So large consumer packaged goods organization, you know, a client that everyone on this call has engaged with at one point in time or another, um, really entrusted us in thinking about their next generation of leaders, really developing their high potential talent across the enterprise.
00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:58.240
And what was so memorable and really uh fun for me about this client engagement is it embodied all of the things that are so important to me at Hogan.
00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:08.480
We're able to bring our science into this organization and support leaders through what might feel like an NFL combine, right?
00:15:08.559 --> 00:15:18.960
They're coming together, they're um you know, they're engaging in interviews and they're on stage and they're they're going through coaching and 360s.
00:15:19.360 --> 00:15:39.120
But as a client team supporting this organization, it was so much fun to see the the evolution of these cohorts, um, you know, session after session, and also the time we got to spend together as consultants, as coaches to this client.
00:15:39.679 --> 00:15:43.840
Um, you know, these were these were long hours and long weeks.
00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:55.759
So a lot of time spent on the road, together really working through the talent review process, um, but knowing at the end of it there's such a huge impact.
00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:08.080
Um, supporting those and you know, getting a voice in this process, providing some really meaningful coaching and development as they continue to grow and you know in their own career as all-stars.
00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:10.720
Jackie, you you were on the client side.
00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:12.879
You have to have a story for us as well.
00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:14.080
Yeah, it's funny.
00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:17.519
I'm noticing a thread here across the three answers.
00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:21.039
And I don't I didn't know what Chris or Jennifer were going to say today.
00:16:21.360 --> 00:16:32.480
But my story, what's similar about it to what I've heard from these two is it involves a client who bring who has brought us in as a true partner.
00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:48.000
So it doesn't, you know, sometimes, and this is true, I think, in any business, if you're some of your customers treat you like a vendor, and some of your customers treat you like a partner or even a trusted advisor, or sometimes even closer than that, you know, a family member.
00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:55.519
Um and the customer projects that these two have described, I happen to know a little bit about each of them.
00:16:55.679 --> 00:17:05.680
And it's it's examples like that where we really get brought in and we get to not just create a much deeper impact, but we get to see the that impact and get to see it over time.
00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:12.880
So Chris gets to watch it play out on live TV every you know, Monday and Sunday, but and Thursday now.
00:17:13.119 --> 00:17:18.559
And you know, Jennifer, the project she's speaking about, I I had a chance to be a part of that as well.
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:28.079
And it it's still top three in terms of my client most memorable and uh treasured client experiences.
00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:30.240
But the one I'm thinking of was very similar.
00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:44.319
It was one where I was brought in over a very long period of time in a large manufacturing organization, and the products that they create have a tremendous impact on human safety.
00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:48.400
So they their products are involved in transporting people all over the world.
00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:50.400
And so leadership, you know, Dr.
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:57.119
Hogan has this expression that is very simple and straightforward, but profoundly true, which is leadership matters.
00:17:57.440 --> 00:18:00.319
And we believe that wholeheartedly, leadership really does matter.
00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:28.480
But when you're you know dealing in a company like this, leadership matters in a on a level that is hard to even wrap your head around, where you know, the decisions that they make have life and death consequences in in some cases, or you know, have impact impact on the world economy in ways that you know is it's hard to really um come to grips with the the breadth and depth of that impact of their leadership.
00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:38.160
And it's not to say that the one Hogan assessment they took is gonna, you know, change all of that, but you know, in a lot of cases we are a part of the decision process.
00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:53.920
We we advise our these clients on, you know, who's the best candidate to lead this um, you know, this organization into the future and why or what um what development needs do they have that could that could stand in their way and how do we help fill those gaps?
00:18:54.160 --> 00:19:00.000
So and in many cases you get to see the impact of what you've done play out, not maybe not on national TV.
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:16.079
I don't I've not had that yet, Chris, but um on on the news for sure, on primetime news, sometimes you see both the positive and negative consequences of what leadership decisions are, what impact leadership decisions are having on the world.
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:20.559
And sometimes that is um incredibly encouraging, right?
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:26.480
You see a leader that you were you were part of their development journey and you see that they're making a positive impact in the world.
00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:39.839
I've other I've also seen other situations where there was a leader that, you know, we predicted would struggle and would have, you know, major development needs, and then they end up in the news for not so good reasons, right?
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:48.000
Uh and that that is it is those kinds of projects I always come back to and and and think about when I'm asked questions like this.
00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:49.519
You know, that's it it's crazy.
00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:53.279
The common theme I'm seeing here is like this is high stakes stuff.
00:19:53.519 --> 00:20:00.400
I mean, and that's why, you know, people might think, oh, we can't afford to invest in this type of thing.
00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:07.839
But when you're talking about, you know, these large corporations or these um these athletes coming out of college, you know, with the NFL or something like that.
00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:21.279
I mean, the getting making the wrong choice is way more costly than than you know, finding a well-validated personality assessment to actually put people through.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:27.039
I'm not gonna sit here and just preach Hogan, but you know, we just say well-validated, you know, pick pick pick and choose what you want.
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:27.839
We think we're the best.
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:38.160
You can you can make your own decision on that, but you can't let that that uh cost be the barrier to entry for this whenever the stakes are so high.
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:40.720
And I think it's really cool to hear that you do all this.
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:43.759
And then Jackie, like you said, watching primetime news.
00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:47.599
You know, I'm not on the client-facing side so much at all.
00:20:47.759 --> 00:21:03.759
Um but I do hear, you know, things here and there, like, oh, we were involved in this or that, and then to hear my friends talking about can you believe how great this person is doing at XYZ organization, or my gosh, have you seen this?
00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:12.559
And I I can't say anything, but in the back of my mind, I'm like, oh well, we told them they shouldn't have picked that person, or you know, or or like, yeah, or hey, yeah, that was our choice.
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:14.240
So that's it's so cool to see that.
00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:14.799
You're right.
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:20.000
It's the the magnitude of what the work you all are doing or have done is just incredible.
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:27.680
Okay, so I'm um none of these projects come without challenges.
00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:30.559
I mean, some of these things aren't easy, they're complex.
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.119
What we do is complex, just the nature of it.
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:36.880
Uh so I'm I'm curious to hear, you know, from from all three of you.
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:39.599
Jackie, you thought you were just coming in as kind of the host here.
00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:42.799
You're you're just as much a guest as Chris and JLo are.
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:45.519
So you know what what about challenging projects?
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:51.839
Would you mind sharing a story where you encountered obstacles and maybe how you got to a success successful solution?
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:55.200
Like I can kick us off here.
00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:56.079
Go for it.
00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:59.759
You know, when you you mentioned this is really high stake.
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:01.279
Work.
00:22:01.519 --> 00:22:16.799
And for many years in my time on the client-facing side, I did a lot of work in the talent acquisition space and really supporting organizations and key talent identification and succession and so on.
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:26.880
And that can be some of the most rewarding work in terms of, you know, as you mentioned, putting a validated solution in place that's really going to make an impact.
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:28.880
We know what the cost of a bad hire is.
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:31.279
It's a lot, it's not the first year salary.
00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:46.559
So these can be really challenging discussions, especially in situations when an organization says they need one thing, but they're rewarding something else.
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:55.440
And that is a very common challenge, especially as you're starting to think about different levels of leadership within an organization.
00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:23.039
One of the stories that stands out for me here that ended up with a very successful ending was the opportunity to work with this financial services client as they went through their journey of everything from competency alignment and looking at competencies as it connects to leadership roles to really understanding key talents from director to C-suite in the organization.
00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:40.559
So we'd spent a lot of time doing tremendous research, getting an understanding of what key stakeholders said were important for success for the role, collecting performance data, you know, getting a sense of what the assessment data looks like for those who are currently in role.
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:49.519
And we reach what happens a fair amount, which is the conversation where we say, these are the things we said are really important for success.
00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:52.880
Creative, innovative, change agent, make it happen.
00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:58.880
These are the things we're currently rewarding, practical, pragmatic, operational focus.
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:01.680
And this happens, this happens a lot.
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:13.359
And the aha moment that came in this conversation with the client was hmm, this is why we keep bringing people in to be change agents.
00:24:13.599 --> 00:24:20.640
And within six months or a year, they're leaving the organization or they're saying, you know what, you're not ready for them yet.
00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:24.880
Um, and and I think that is a reality in a lot of these situations.
00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:40.400
But the beauty of Hogan's process here, the research process, is we start to unpack these things and say, where's the gap between what we say we want and we need and what we're rewarding, and how do we create the path to make that happen?
00:24:40.640 --> 00:24:56.000
Um, you know, this is a this is a client who has been a you know a Hogan friend of the family for a very long time and continues to leverage us, so it's definitely a success story as we started to unpack how do we get from what we say we want to where we are.
00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:06.160
Um, but it is a really common challenge in this case, and you know, using the assessments and the job analysis process as a point of awareness were really critical.
00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:07.759
Chris, what about you?
00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:09.519
Yeah, you know, it's interesting.
00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:22.000
Mine ties pretty close to what Jennifer talked about here, but I had a uh a large client that we'd supported for quite some time, global organization, um consumer goods, and they'd gone through a checkup at the top end.
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:36.240
So some changes in the board, they had just appointed a new CEO, and the board and CEO had identified that um they didn't feel they had the leadership characteristics that they needed to sustain their evolution in the future.
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:45.759
Stock price would have told you this organization a bit stagnant, investors were a bit skeptical about previous leadership's ability to evolve the organization to keep up.
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:55.440
And so they went on a pretty big journey to say uh we need these types of things, change agent growth mindset, we need to digitize the organization.
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:00.400
And the CEO and board were convinced they didn't have the right people in the organization to do that.
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:02.799
Now we've been in this position with many clients in the past.
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:06.799
I came into it with a hefty dose of skepticism.
00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:15.759
And after about a two-year process, assessing close to a thousand leaders across this enterprise from the CEO and said, you don't have a people problem.
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:23.839
I said, all of these capabilities that you've outlined as critical for your success show up in the collective Hogan profile of the people that you employ.
00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:26.480
What you have is a systems problem.
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:39.279
In the 150 years you've been in business, you've created uh processes, systems, governance, and controls that just prevent the natural capabilities of your people from shining on a day-to-day basis.
00:26:39.519 --> 00:26:45.359
So it completely reoriented the challenge with which this client was trying to achieve.
00:26:45.599 --> 00:27:06.240
And if they'd continued down the path of finding the internal talent and trying to mix and change that talent, they would have missed that no matter what they did, to evolve the capabilities, skills, and capacity of their teams, they would have missed the fact that they had systems in their organization that were going to prevent any of that evolution to occurring change.
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:13.839
So um, and it was amazing to me how fast this situation changed once they had identified the clear problem.
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:19.279
Once they'd identified the clear problem, they went on a pretty systematic approach over the next couple of years.
00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:29.039
Investors gained confidence, stock price rose, um, and even to this day, they still continue to be the benchmark in their industry for the way in which they operate.
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:39.440
So it was a very challenging scenario or situation, but it ended in a really rewarding insight from the value in which uh we provided to the client.
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:50.480
Yeah, so it's so interesting listening to Chris and Jennifer's answers because again, I swear we didn't uh corroborate uh going into this, but we have some real similarities here.
00:27:50.720 --> 00:28:04.720
So when I think about some of the challenges in client projects, it involves finding a real something very unexpected or a real complexity in the research or the data that we were using in solving that client's problem.
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:08.240
And a lot of these complexities deal with leadership, right?
00:28:08.319 --> 00:28:27.039
So in one example, we found that the personality characteristics that predicted getting results, both in terms of operational and financial metrics, were inversely related to the things that produced engagement and you know, um the kind of more the softer side of leadership.
00:28:27.200 --> 00:28:36.960
So in essence, the leaders who were great at driving for results were driving people away from the company, driving people out of their functions and organizations.
00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:57.200
And in the examples that Jennifer and Chris, and now the one I'm sharing, the challenge involved telling the organization something really hard, a message that they maybe didn't want to hear, like the aspiration that you have for where you want your company to go or the leadership you want your people to have is doesn't match with reality.
00:28:57.440 --> 00:28:58.960
You know, in Jennifer's case.
00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:05.680
Um, in in Chris's example, it was identifying a deep systemic process problem.
00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:12.400
You know, in my case, it was, yeah, it was upending their entire performance management philosophy.
00:29:12.720 --> 00:29:29.759
And those are not easy messages to deliver, but um it's kind of this combination of finding something really complex and unexpected in the data and then leveraging that to have an uncomfortable but ultimately maybe transformative conversation with that that organization.
00:29:30.079 --> 00:29:30.720
Well, very cool.
00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.880
I don't I don't really have a good challenging client client story, unfortunately.
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:44.160
Uh, because most of my I'm I'm actually probably the challenging client because I work with an external PR firm and they probably got a call with them right after we get done recording this.
00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:49.839
So I'm the challenging client here, so we can just go ahead and move on and they can tell their own story on their own podcast.
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:53.119
Um but you know, each of you have worked closely with Dr.
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:55.119
Hogan uh throughout the years.
00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:58.319
So I'm curious, what's your favorite memory from your time working with him?
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:04.720
Because anybody who knows him knows that he is quite the character, so I'm sure you all have something interesting to tell.
00:30:04.799 --> 00:30:05.039
I don't know.
00:30:05.200 --> 00:30:07.359
Chris, Jennifer, which one do you want to go first?
00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:09.440
Yeah, Blake, this was a hard one.
00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:13.680
There are so many stories over the years to kind of whittle it down.
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:19.039
But sometimes the simplest stories create the greatest impact, and and that's where I landed on this one.
00:30:19.119 --> 00:30:19.599
Um, Dr.
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:23.759
Hogan and I share a love for automobiles in every year where he lives.
00:30:23.839 --> 00:30:27.200
Uh, there is the Concourse de Elegants in Amelia Island.
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:34.720
And I was there one year, um, and we were both there examining all of the vehicles, what's happening, what's going on.
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:41.839
Um, and and they're just some amazing works of art uh across the various examples, beautiful Mercedes bins.
00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:50.079
These are pre-war examples of handcrafted automobiles, and and I could spend hours looking at these vehicles.
00:30:50.319 --> 00:30:58.640
But later that evening, we were having dinner, and he asked me, he said, Okay, out of everything that you saw today, what was what was the best?
00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:01.279
What do you think was the best example?
00:31:01.359 --> 00:31:11.279
And I know I got into a pretty impassioned reaction to this because it was clear to me there's an automobile that was made in the US called a Duisenberg, and everything on it is a work of art.
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:26.240
And I can remember specifically describing a fastener that they had, and I talked about the placement, the way it was um articulated, angled, that every little detail on this simple fastener was so precise and so well thought out.
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:27.440
And when I stopped, Dr.
00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:33.039
Hogan looked at me and said, That's exactly how I feel about a single item on our assessments.
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:38.799
He said, People tend to think it's a random group of words thrown together or that they're just grouped together.
00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:41.440
He said, But that's exactly how I created our assessments.
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:52.480
I moved words, I recreated things, I tested things, I adjusted, I changed, and so much effort and energy into went into each and every item on our assessment.
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:57.920
Um and I realized at that moment that's why we have the impact we do.
00:31:58.079 --> 00:32:04.000
That's why when someone says to me, How do you know that about me, or where in this assessment did you see that?
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:18.079
When you hear that that level of care and intensity and passion went into the original development of what we do here at Hogan, it gives you a clear picture as to why we deliver the impact we do at an individual level for those that take our assessments.
00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:19.119
It's funny, Chris.
00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:27.839
That's not the only example of um he's so obsessed with so many different um kind of examples of precision engineering.
00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:34.000
So it's fun, it's funny to hear you share that one, which I didn't know about in particular, but that's such a thread.
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:35.200
Um interesting.
00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:37.279
Yeah, Jennifer, what would you say?
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:39.519
Yeah.
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:47.440
Um my story takes a little bit of a different twist, um, maybe a little more personal in nature.
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:50.720
I don't know that we've talked about the Hogan dogs just yet.
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:55.519
Um, maybe mentions that they're running around the uh running around the building.
00:32:55.599 --> 00:33:00.079
Um that's definitely an artifact of the old building and and the building of today.
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:10.079
Um but when I um first started at Hogan, my office was just right down the hallway uh from RT and Joyce.
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:20.720
And their dogs, um Willie and Grace, Jack Russell Terriers with lots of attitude, um, came came to the office every day.
00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:30.640
Um and and you knew Willie and Grace are really important stakeholders, and you need to make sure you're you're navigating those relationships very carefully.
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:35.759
Um but it at one point in time, the new puppy, Bubbles, came to the office.
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:45.839
I don't know if you all remember um Bubbles, um, but I was trying to leave our office area at one point, and and we were in a building where everything was very segmented.
00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:58.480
So I walked past um RT and Joyce's office to leave the area, and Bubbles, a young Jack Russell Terrier, came running after me and and you know, trying to get out the door.
00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:11.280
And you know, I'm very you know, as someone who was, you know, I don't know that I was even full time at Hogan yet, still maybe an intern, you know, turning and very carefully trying to say, No, bubbles, it's okay, you stay here, you know, I'll be right back.
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:20.960
And RT um gets up and walks to the door, and since we're keeping it PG, says, Bubbles, you little rascal, um, you know, come come back here.
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:40.320
Um, and it was one of my most memorable interactions with him because this this is a legend in our industry, someone you you know, you you read about and you study, and um, you know, and you know, have a standing room-only um event at Psyop, just to get a moment with him.
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:49.119
And here we are, you know, talking about dogs and you know, just a very human moment that really stuck with.
00:34:50.719 --> 00:34:59.280
You know, J Lo, it's funny, you were as you were talking, my Jack Russell, I could hear him walking, pacing outside the door of my room right here.
00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:01.760
Uh so Staley, I can hear you.
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:05.440
Um but Jackie, uh, what about you?
00:35:06.159 --> 00:35:12.000
Yeah, I was thinking way back, I got in the way back machine to to think about this question.
00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:18.880
And it's funny because so Jennifer was describing the old Hogan building when we were still really small.
00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:21.840
And the Hogans worked in the same Dr.
00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:22.719
Joyce and Dr.
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:26.320
Hogan worked in the same office, and they worked sort of back to back.
00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:30.239
Um, you know, and spin their chairs around and talk every once in a while.
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:34.960
And I I realized that a lot of my memories of RT, we sorry, we call Dr.
00:35:35.039 --> 00:35:40.000
Hogan RT, uh casually in within our our own company.
00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:43.280
Uh a lot of my favorite memories of RT or Dr.
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:50.239
Hogan actually involve a memory of Joyce as well, because you almost always interacted with them as a unit back in those days.
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:53.039
And I was a kid, literally a kid.
00:35:53.280 --> 00:36:00.079
And I think luckily for me, I was too young and stupid to realize how impressed I was supposed to be about the Hogans.
00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:03.519
I didn't yet know what legends they were in our industry.
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:13.920
So I had no fear or hesitation of just entering their office and asking them questions, which looking back, I'm sure was really annoying to them, but was tremendous for me.
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:19.519
I mean, I was learning at the speed of light from them, but also on the job.
00:36:19.840 --> 00:36:26.880
And it was just a wildly exciting time in my growth as a person and professionally.
00:36:27.199 --> 00:36:29.519
But you'd walk in there and you could ask them anything.
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:32.639
They would stop what they were doing and give you their time and attention.
00:36:33.280 --> 00:36:45.679
And among the many things I went in there to ask them about, one of them was advice on graduate school and whether to go full PhD or stop in my master's degree.
00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:49.760
And of course, both of the Hogan's are doctors, they're the doctors Hogan.
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:54.239
So I kind of anticipated the answer would be of course go get your PhD.
00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:55.920
But they disagreed.
00:36:56.159 --> 00:36:59.679
And RT said, you absolutely should go get your PhD.
00:36:59.840 --> 00:37:11.119
That gets you credibility in every room and you know, access to you know, just opportunities and you know, networks that you might not get if you don't do it, and you know, it's a it's the credential.
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:22.159
And Joyce, although she was getting a PhD as well, she said stop at your master's because I you know, I was I was in school and working for Hogan at the same time.
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:24.320
Don't tell TU, it was against the rules.
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:32.320
Um, but I she said, you'll you'll be getting your degree at the University of Tulsa, but you'll be getting your education at Hogan.
00:37:32.880 --> 00:37:36.000
And ultimately I listened to Joyce.
00:37:36.159 --> 00:37:36.960
And she was right.
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:40.480
I mean, I was getting my education at Hogan.
00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:52.639
And for anybody who has that opportunity to be in school, getting your your advanced degree while doing the work that you're studying, it is the best way to learn.
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:53.920
It was tremendous.
00:37:54.239 --> 00:37:58.079
Um, and there are times when I think back and I regret not getting my PhD.
00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:02.400
Um, you know, often, in fact, I regret not doing that.
00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:15.039
But I think um I think about that memorable advice from both of them and later, much, much later, decided to ask for recommendation letters from from the two of them for grad school.
00:38:15.280 --> 00:38:21.119
And you know, you're not supposed to look at those, they stay sealed and you send them out and you don't know what they say.
00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:28.000
They could say Jackie's the worst and don't ever consider accepting her in your program, or they could say something great.
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:34.880
So I was a very, you know, I was a good steward of the that process process.
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:40.880
And but l much, much later when I was moving from Tulsa to where I live now in Tampa, I found those letters.
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:46.159
I had a few extras, you know, you print a bunch and you seal them up, and then you end up sometimes with a couple left over.
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:48.320
And I thought, well, it's been a long time.
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:51.360
And it was after Joyce's passing and I opened I opened them.
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:54.320
So confessions, true confessions, I opened them.
00:38:54.559 --> 00:38:56.079
And Dr.
00:38:56.239 --> 00:38:56.960
Hogan, Dr.
00:38:57.039 --> 00:39:02.320
Robert Hogan's said it was like one sentence, and it was a very powerful sentence what it said.
00:39:02.480 --> 00:39:07.360
I recommend Jackie Van Broken, which is my my maiden name, um, without reservations.
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:10.880
You know, just a very clear like you should take her.
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:13.920
I accept, you know, I recommend her with no hesitation.
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:22.079
But Joyce's, which, you know, Joyce was kind of a tough cookie, and she she had she had kind of a tough love leadership style.
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:29.840
But her recommendation letter to me was so thoughtful and so um detailed.
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:37.599
She had clearly gone around and talked to everybody that I had ever worked with or for and what kind of projects I had contributed to.
00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:41.599
And it was so well reasoned.
00:39:41.920 --> 00:39:53.360
And you know, of course, I just started crying at that point, just um thinking about the time that she took, despite the fact that she could be a little um a little tough on the surface, but just cared so deeply underneath.
00:39:53.440 --> 00:40:00.800
And in both cases, I'm sure that's what helped get me into grad school was was the recommendation from both of these kind of luminary people in our field.
00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:09.280
Well, I've I've got one myself, so I have I have had the the opportunity to interact with with RT uh on a fairly regular basis.
00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:14.719
And Jackie me, uh it's no surprise that you said it was like one sentence was a powerful one.
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:16.159
That's kind of like his emails.
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:17.360
I mean, we've all seen them.
00:40:17.760 --> 00:40:22.079
They're very short, but he can say a lot in very few words.
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:25.840
And you know that like it to take it seriously.
00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:27.599
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:35.039
Um they're direct, but um you you just have to see it to believe it.
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:39.760
But my story actually is he came in, you know, living in Florida.
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:43.119
I never got to meet Joyce, unfortunately, and that's the one regret I have.
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:45.199
I wish I would have got to Hogan a little earlier.
00:40:45.440 --> 00:41:05.360
Um but he came to me, we were sitting there, it was while we were actually in the office, you know, full time, and he came up just you know, you never know whenever he walks in, he just gets off the plane, he just goes straight to to Hogan HQ, he walks in, you don't know who he's uh he's targeting.
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:08.079
And I was targeted that day.
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:19.519
And he came, he stopped by, he said, Blake, yeah, he said, Blake, uh we need to train our people here to speak better and do better at presentations.
00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:26.000
Um there was this firm here in town, they they trained me several years ago, it's called Shocky Turnbo Frank.
00:41:26.559 --> 00:41:32.159
Call them, ask them, see how much it's gonna cost to do this presentation training, speaker training for our consultants.
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:39.440
I said, RT, I worked there for five years and actually did that training and facilitated it.
00:41:39.519 --> 00:41:43.760
And he said, Great, we don't have to pay a ton of money, we keep paying your salary.
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:46.079
He said, get this going.
00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:56.159
And uh I didn't, I mean, of course, when he tells you to do something like that in person, um you get the ball rolling, you get going, and uh a couple months later launched it.
00:41:56.239 --> 00:42:01.760
I I mean, and now I bet you know, that was probably eight or nine years ago.
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:10.480
And I I bet I bet you know, we put 50 to 60 people through that, you know, because people don't, you know, Togan's not always their last stop on their career journey.
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:19.360
You know, so anytime we got a new batch of people in, I set up another training session, and the the session still lives on today.
00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:24.000
Whenever we need it, um it's not as frequent, but but yeah, that that's what he came to me.
00:42:24.159 --> 00:42:29.119
But when he came and told me to do something like that, I I made sure I made it happen.
00:42:29.199 --> 00:42:33.039
And hopefully, hopefully I succeeded, but we'll kill it.
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:36.239
I went through your training, Blake, and it was memorable.
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:40.559
I I still think back and use some of the things that you you taught us.
00:42:40.719 --> 00:42:43.920
And I think Chris and Jennifer went through it too, if I'm not mistaken.
00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:50.400
And you know, we had been giving presentations for a long time at that point, and I took I still took a ton away from it.
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:51.280
So yeah.
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:53.039
Do you guys remember that, Jennifer or Chris?
00:42:53.119 --> 00:42:53.519
Did you go through it?
00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:55.440
Oh, absolutely.
00:42:55.679 --> 00:43:06.639
Um, you know, like you structured it in such a way that was really kind of getting at who we are when we're sort of off the cuff, um, and also uh you know a more structured format.
00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:11.840
And you know, it was just really interesting to see like where's our comfort zone in this?
00:43:12.239 --> 00:43:24.559
Um, and you gave me some really meaningful feedback that I I carry with me today when thinking about, especially in a longer engagement or presentation, just kind of you know managing my breathing and my my pace.
00:43:24.639 --> 00:43:25.440
So it really made me.
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:28.000
Chris, I don't know if you ever made it, I don't know if you made it through.
00:43:28.079 --> 00:43:30.079
You were I'm sure I was on the road, Blake.
00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:32.400
I actually get to sit through it.
00:43:32.480 --> 00:43:36.880
I had plenty of people that worked under me that went through it and spoke very highly of the program.
00:43:36.960 --> 00:43:37.360
So yeah.
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:45.199
I mean, yeah, you were gosh, you were you're you are the road warrior, which is I mean, that's perfect segue into the next question that I have here.
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:49.280
Because um, I mean, all three of you have traveled a lot for Hogan.
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:50.559
Um, a lot more than I have.
00:43:50.719 --> 00:43:57.760
I mean, I've done a fair amount, but you all have been on the road a lot, um, traveling in numerous cities, states, countries for Hogan.
00:43:58.000 --> 00:43:59.760
So, what's the most memorable trip?
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:01.360
You've taken on the Hogan dime.
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:02.800
I can kick us off.
00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:17.599
Like, I know I haven't spent quite as much time on the road as Chris, but there is a trip that comes to mind, and I feel like I've spent quite a bit of time in the Wayback Machine, so I want to share a story from about this time last year.
00:44:18.000 --> 00:44:21.199
Hogan has a diverse business model.
00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:23.840
So we work directly with customers.
00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:27.840
We have distributors in more than 40 countries.
00:44:28.079 --> 00:44:37.119
And in my current role, I have the privilege of working more closely with these distributors in terms of implementation of learning content and so on.
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:44.480
And last year I had the opportunity to spend about a week in the UK meeting with all four of our distributors.
00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:54.559
So I was supporting Jackie and the product team to really do kind of a roadshow, if you will, on our newest product, Helix.
00:44:55.039 --> 00:45:03.840
So this involved training each of the distributors, getting everyone up to speed, and really just the opportunity to connect and engage.
00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:27.360
Travel for Hogan is always a wonderful experience, whether you're surfing on the plane train with Chris Duffy, you know, to go see a client or anywhere in the world, meeting with our distributors who are just an extension of the Hogan family and have such great knowledge and insight.
00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:30.960
And this trip was a lot like any other Hogan trip.
00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:33.920
Definitely an example of work hard, play hard.
00:45:34.239 --> 00:45:47.119
The hours are long, they start early, there's a lot of technical content with audiences who, you know, in a lot of cases, our distributors have been, you know, doing this work longer than those of us on this call have.
00:45:47.519 --> 00:45:57.519
So really, you know, meeting with people who were true experts in their market and the field and getting the opportunity to engage and share some new insights.
00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:00.639
And also have a little fun along the way.
00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:10.000
This trip in particular was with one of our regional directors, Maya, and we had the you know planes, trains, automobiles, and boats experience, right?
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:24.159
By the time we covered off, we're distributors in the market, really kind of hitting the road all over the country, but then also finding some time for fun and experiencing local culture, restaurants.
00:46:24.239 --> 00:46:26.960
Um, so that really stands out as a more recent memory.
00:46:27.280 --> 00:46:29.280
Yeah, I can I can add to that, Jennifer.
00:46:29.440 --> 00:46:32.480
Um, I I relish any opportunity to be with clients.
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:42.079
What we do at Hogan is such a human experience, and I think more and more as as we move forward in this world, that human experience is going to become more and more valuable.
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:51.440
So I I cherish any opportunity I can to be with clients and especially with leaders and have the opportunity to uh work with leaders, leadership teams.
00:46:51.679 --> 00:47:02.400
In this particular case, uh I spent a week in Ishtamble, uh Turkey, and uh we had done a series of about 12 different team sections across this entire enterprise back-to-back.
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:12.800
It was an unbelievably challenging week given very little breaks, very little rest, but also probably the most rewarding trip of my entire career.
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:16.880
I had a colleague with me, um, and she she stuck there with me as well.
00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:19.679
But then we did have some time to actually see the city.
00:47:19.760 --> 00:47:23.280
And if you haven't seen it, Timble Turkey, it is an amazing place.
00:47:23.599 --> 00:47:30.000
Fantastic food, fantastic people, and just from a historical perspective, so much to learn and so much to see.
00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:42.559
So we delivered great impact with the climate, but to satisfy some of the needs from us from a hedonistic perspective, we got to see parts of the city, had some fun along the way, uh, and came back exhausted, but also extremely rewarded from that trip.
00:47:42.880 --> 00:47:43.360
Jackie?
00:47:43.920 --> 00:47:58.320
Yeah, so when I think back over the trips I have taken, a lot of the most uh rewarding have been two very unglamorous places, because you know, it was more about the work we did there or the people I was with.
00:47:58.480 --> 00:48:06.639
So I'm thinking Cedar Rapids and Omaha and Rochester and White Plains, and no offense to the people who live there.
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:11.920
And I'm sure it's, you know, those are wonderful places, but they're not exactly tourist destinations.
00:48:12.320 --> 00:48:15.440
But your question was more about the place, our favorite place.
00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:26.400
And mine was also a recent international trip to Paris and Milan with one of our uh distributors internationally aware that operates out of both of those countries.
00:48:26.800 --> 00:48:32.159
And they asked me to come out and deliver some segments of a leadership program that they were running.
00:48:32.639 --> 00:48:48.800
And the place they hosted this event was a very old castle, um, I think 12th or 13th century castle that was converted into a beautiful training, you know, state-of-the-art training facility and conference center.
00:48:49.119 --> 00:49:04.880
And so you're sitting in this truly ancient room and it it they've preserved, you know, the old sinks and you know, um plumbing and it's very cool place, but there's state-of-the-art technology all around.
00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:08.559
And I got to participate in this um program.
00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:18.480
And for somebody like me, one of the things I miss the most in my current role is that direct interface with the clients and delivering these programs to to people.
00:49:18.639 --> 00:49:23.280
So a lot of times Jennifer and I are designing them, but we are not always the ones delivering them now.
00:49:23.519 --> 00:49:35.840
So that was just uh you know, scratching an itch that uh I miss a lot, but um also the setting was just truly um like something out of a fairy tale or a Disney movie.
00:49:35.920 --> 00:49:46.800
It was just such a beautiful location and the people I was with at this distributor aware and the the clients that they had brought in were all just really amazing people.
00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:49.199
So I had a pretty magical time there.
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:55.440
Well, I mean, although you all have traveled more than I have uh for Hogan, because I mean mine doesn't require that much.
00:49:55.599 --> 00:49:57.840
Um I'm gonna have to go.
00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:00.559
I mean, I I had been to Dublin, but that was really cool.
00:50:01.039 --> 00:50:05.519
But I'm gonna pick uh the distributor summit last year in Miami.
00:50:05.920 --> 00:50:08.480
Um I and for a c for a few reasons.
00:50:08.719 --> 00:50:22.320
So um first off, there were so many Hogan people there, and so it's fun to be on the road whenever you know you have what there were probably like 20 Hogan uh employees there.
00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:24.400
I mean minimum maybe.
00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:31.280
I uh and then you have all of our distributors there, which was awesome, just getting to interact with all of them in one place.
00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:39.360
Plus, it was it was Miami, which to me, I think that was also the other part of it, is I never had any desire to really go to Miami.
00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:48.159
I had only been through the airport on the way to the Bahamas, and I was like, this isn't a place I really care to go, but I guess if work's gonna send me, I'll go.
00:50:49.519 --> 00:50:51.679
And it really beat my expectations.
00:50:51.840 --> 00:51:07.599
Um the food was incredible, but I think the best part was that I was going down, and the whole point was for my uh initial reason for going down was to record some uh podcast, uh little mini episodes with the distributors.
00:51:07.920 --> 00:51:21.280
And uh at the as we started that discussion, it was like, okay, well, we're gonna get Blake like a like kind of like a suite so that he can have just like a living room area where he can have distributors come up and you know do that.
00:51:21.519 --> 00:51:30.880
But you know, that was early on in the process and the planning, and then um next thing you know, we've rented a studio where we're just gonna have them there.
00:51:31.119 --> 00:51:49.119
And so I arrive at the the hotel just normal, thinking, you know, I'm getting in a normal room, and you know, there's people there in front of me, and they're they're getting they're they're checking in and they get in their card and they they go up to the room, and then another person gets their card, they go up to the room, it's my turn.
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:51.199
I get up there and they're like, sir, your room's not ready.
00:51:51.440 --> 00:51:52.320
And I'm like, what do you mean?
00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:55.119
And they're like, they're doing the inspection right now.
00:51:55.199 --> 00:51:57.599
And I'm like, what are they inspecting?
00:51:57.840 --> 00:51:59.840
Like, what's wrong with my room?
00:52:00.159 --> 00:52:02.960
And uh that suite never got canceled.
00:52:03.840 --> 00:52:11.360
Um, so my room ended up being the the really fancy suite that we were supposed to do the podcast in, but there was no need for that either.
00:52:11.440 --> 00:52:13.199
But the view that we had was incredible.
00:52:13.440 --> 00:52:19.760
And it was also what what uh that it was the Oriental, the Mandarin Oriental, where it's it's gone now.
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:23.440
I mean, that they they demolished that just a few like a few months back.
00:52:23.599 --> 00:52:35.360
So we were one of the last big groups to go through there, and uh so uh it was just a a technical error somebody made, or they couldn't cancel that room, and that's what I ended up with.
00:52:35.519 --> 00:52:41.119
And I'm not hearing so um you know deserved.
00:52:41.599 --> 00:52:42.079
What's that?
00:52:42.159 --> 00:52:42.480
What's that?
00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:44.880
Well-deserved, like I'm sure it was a great thing.
00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:46.320
I just got lucky, you know.
00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:47.440
Just got lucky.
00:52:47.679 --> 00:52:52.000
Uh but uh the next one, uh, let's get back to the values that we discussed earlier.
00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:59.679
You know, if there's two values that really embody Hogan, um, you know, hedonism and altruism would probably be at the top of the list.
00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:04.239
So what's your favorite story that exemplifies one or both of those values?
00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:06.079
Yeah, I can start us off, Blake.
00:53:06.159 --> 00:53:18.880
Uh, this happened very early in my career at Hogan, and it really helped me realize how prevalent our culture is, and how prevalent these values kind of permeate across the organization.
00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:28.480
And I really believe values are what retain people and keep people in an organization, and this experience really helped solidify how important these things are to me.
00:53:28.639 --> 00:53:35.039
Um, but I remember distinctly, it was in Seattle helping a client, and this was early in my career, Logan, helping a client.
00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:40.800
They were having problems with the transition of software engineers into leaders or managers.
00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:48.079
They were really struggling, and we'd realized that some preparation of those individuals through maybe some strategic self-awareness with our assessments could help.
00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:52.159
So we had developed a customized solution for that and put it in place.
00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:55.760
But on my way home, I stopped and had some food.
00:53:55.840 --> 00:54:00.880
And at the time, Joyce Hogan, as was mentioned earlier, she managed all of our expense reports.
00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:08.960
And the week later, after I'd finished up my expense report, um, I was called to her office for some questionable charges on my expense report.
00:54:09.360 --> 00:54:14.159
And I came from an organization, the manufacturing organization part was at Hogan early in my career.
00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:17.840
That um when I sat down for a meal, I had two credit cards.
00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:28.239
One that paid for my per BM and food that was the company, and then any extras, whether that was a uh a cocktail or a dessert or something, that was I paid for that personally.
00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:29.920
So I was used to that world.
00:54:30.159 --> 00:54:34.239
But when Joyce called me into her office, she said, I want to know about this charge here.
00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:38.719
And I kept looking at my expense report and I couldn't figure out what she was talking about at all.
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:41.599
And so finally she says this one, Taco Bell.
00:54:41.760 --> 00:54:46.800
She says, What are you doing eating fast food when you are traveling for Hogan?
00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:48.800
She said, Do you find a proper restaurant?
00:54:49.039 --> 00:54:50.719
Not that, and I love Taco Bell.
00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:53.280
Look, I'm not Taco Bell is one of my favorite places to eat.
00:54:53.360 --> 00:54:55.840
I still eat there, I just don't expense it in Hogan.
00:54:56.480 --> 00:54:57.840
Um it's fantastic.
00:54:58.239 --> 00:54:59.119
It's it's amazing.
00:54:59.840 --> 00:55:02.960
But her point was we work hard, we play hard.
00:55:03.119 --> 00:55:10.559
And so when you're traveling, uh, part of why we travel is so we can have face time with our uh our customers.
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:17.440
We do amazing work, and our reward for doing amazing work and driving the impact in organizations is to enjoy ourselves.
00:55:17.519 --> 00:55:22.239
So the work hard play hard was really hammered home early for me.
00:55:22.400 --> 00:55:27.360
And I think it's something that I really embrace and appreciate about the Hogan culture.
00:55:27.519 --> 00:55:36.800
So still to this day, I find a proper meal, proper drink, and uh and am very pleased that we're in a position to be able to do that when we work with our clients.
00:55:37.039 --> 00:55:44.000
Chris, I love that work hard, play hard example, and that's an example that really comes to mind for me too.
00:55:44.719 --> 00:55:57.920
What really um stood out in thinking about this question was the selling Hogan to Hogan onboarding experience that everyone on the consulting team used to have.
00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:01.760
Um I think we all remember pretty well, and it has evolved a bit.
00:56:01.840 --> 00:56:08.960
And Blake, I think your presentation training is maybe even another evolution of this onboarding experience.
00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:15.039
But selling Hogan to Hogan was essentially um, we'll call it an onboarding experience.
00:56:15.280 --> 00:56:17.280
I love how she's calling it an onboarding experience.
00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:18.960
It was hazing.
00:56:20.239 --> 00:56:21.920
Onboarding experience.
00:56:22.239 --> 00:56:39.519
Um where new new consultants did not matter how long you have been on board, typically within like the first week or first month within role, whenever the next consulting meeting was happening, um, were required to put together essentially a Hogan overview presentation.
00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:52.159
And the rules were you could use anything on the you know at the time, which was the F-drive, um, you know, any shared resources were available.
00:56:52.320 --> 00:57:01.119
And if you were lucky, you had one contact on the consulting team who you could engage to ask questions to make sure you were you were on the right track.
00:57:01.599 --> 00:57:14.320
I remember this experience as a terrifying one, um, you know, just not knowing is this the right depth of the content, how many slides should I have, what's expected, um, how difficult will my audience be?
00:57:14.800 --> 00:57:18.159
And this would happen on our Friday consulting calls.
00:57:18.320 --> 00:57:29.039
Um so I remember going through my presentation and the um and the group was was pretty kind during that time, but there was a celebration after the fact.
00:57:29.199 --> 00:57:52.719
Um, our you know, Friday at the time or Friday afternoon lunches were almost always at a you know fabulous local sushi restaurant, and there would be you know a celebration for this experience over the years, and even as I became a manager on the consulting team as well, we carried that forward into a role play experience, maybe with a little more onboarding support.
00:57:52.880 --> 00:58:03.119
Um, but it just that really stands out to me because it was it was fun, it was definitely work hard, play hard, and it just it really expedited your growth.
00:58:03.280 --> 00:58:07.599
And you know, and thinking back to our earlier question about why are you still here?
00:58:07.920 --> 00:58:15.760
Um, you know, one of the things about that experience, and so many at Hogan have been about just taking a chance on people.
00:58:16.239 --> 00:58:20.960
Um, I was regularly thrown into the deep end, probably before I was ready.
00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:27.360
Um, but that taught me so much about who I am as a person, who I was as a consultant and a leader today.
00:58:27.679 --> 00:58:32.400
I was thinking back on um, you know, the the story that Chris shared.
00:58:32.559 --> 00:58:41.760
It was like a moment in time, but there were also rituals that were a reflection of exactly that same value that he was talking about.
00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:47.199
And I think what what that conveys to people is I we have a lot of trust in you.
00:58:47.440 --> 00:58:50.480
So we want we trust that you're working really hard.
00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:59.679
And our sort of recognition of that or the freedom that you get around that is this permission to enjoy your colleagues and you know have fun.
00:59:00.000 --> 00:59:04.239
So we had a kind of a ritual of every Friday afternoon.
00:59:04.400 --> 00:59:19.599
If you're you know, your client load and your work was in a good place, we would hang out together and just, you know, have a beer and and be in the conference room and share stories and lessons learned about things that were happening in the business and just connect as people.
00:59:20.079 --> 00:59:24.159
And I think the altruism comes out in a number of ways at Hogan.
00:59:24.400 --> 00:59:44.239
Some of it is in the our our roots as you know, our our company was was born out of, it was founded on principles of social justice and making the world a more fair place to try to find work and and and be employed at a time when that was really not um in style.
00:59:44.800 --> 00:59:53.119
So the assessments were developed in specifically to make the world uh, you know, to have more equitable access to opportunities.
00:59:53.280 --> 00:59:55.039
So that's one way altruism plays out.
00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:58.239
And that's really, I think, deeply meaningful to all of us.
00:59:58.800 --> 01:00:09.119
But the other way, I I think is in how we are sort of like a family, maybe a like a weird, mildly dysfunctional one at times.
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:20.320
But um, I don't know if you can see behind me, but the those pictures on my wall, I have my children, my husband, my dog, and I have Chris is up there, Jennifer's up there.
01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:26.320
These people are my family at Hogan, and there are a few others up there as well.
01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:35.920
But I think that um we are a company who cares deeply about our our work and our customers, but also each other.
01:00:36.320 --> 01:00:46.480
And you know, I shared a little bit at the beginning about why I came here and why I wasn't in kind of fell in love with Hogan, the the company, the concept, the mission.
01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:50.639
But different things at different points in time have kind of kept me here.
01:00:50.960 --> 01:00:58.639
And I'm gonna I'm gonna embarrass Chris for a moment here, but I I worked for Chris for a long time and he's the best boss I've ever had.
01:00:59.119 --> 01:01:01.599
And he um it was very early on.
01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:17.280
I had I had quite literally just accepted um a full-time role at Hogan coming out of my you know part-time graduate school part-time intern experience at Hogan, which was really more like a full-time intern experience.
01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:23.280
Um right around that time I learned my dad had just gotten a cancer diagnosis.
01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:30.079
And um I lived, I was raised in Tampa and I was living in Tulsa where Hogan's at HQ is at the time.
01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:36.559
And it was he really needed somebody to be there, and there was wasn't really anybody else at the time.
01:01:36.719 --> 01:01:42.320
My sister was pregnant, and turns out you can't be around people who are going through radiation when you're pregnant.
01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:46.480
So she she couldn't um be that person for him, even though she was local.
01:01:46.719 --> 01:01:55.199
And I just I was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe I'm gonna have to ask this, but I I have to I have to go be there for him for a period of time.
01:01:55.679 --> 01:02:10.880
And I went to Chris with no expectation that you know they would, you know, I expected that Hogan would probably rescind my job offer and my company would reapply at some other point in time, which would have been totally understandable.
01:02:11.119 --> 01:02:13.679
And I felt so terrible about doing this.
01:02:14.239 --> 01:02:15.760
I was like, Chris, I'm so sorry.
01:02:15.840 --> 01:02:20.880
I have to go home for I think it's gonna be a few months, but I don't know, it could be longer.
01:02:21.440 --> 01:02:23.360
I just don't I don't feel like I really have a choice.
01:02:23.519 --> 01:02:28.400
And he sort of interrupted me mid-sentence and was like, don't worry about a thing.
01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:35.280
You just go and you take care of your family, and when you're ready, your job will be right here waiting for you.
01:02:35.920 --> 01:02:40.719
And I I gotta tell you, that is not um that's not a thing.
01:02:41.039 --> 01:02:44.239
That's not a thing that people get from their employers.
01:02:44.559 --> 01:03:00.079
And that commitment to me, you know, and and um support of me during that time, which you know, by the way, he's healthy now, uh, and he's in full remission as far as we know, and he has been for years and years.
01:03:00.400 --> 01:03:11.760
And that time was I mean, I I can't you can't put a price or value on that um or the value of an employer who you know who treats people that way.
01:03:11.840 --> 01:03:13.840
And that's that's one small example.
01:03:14.079 --> 01:03:23.679
I think Hogan has made many of those kinds of investments in people, but it felt like, you know, there's a commitment here to me, and it's really inspired a commitment in return.
01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:26.000
Sorry, Chris.
01:03:26.719 --> 01:03:27.119
Yeah.
01:03:27.519 --> 01:03:29.840
Oh no, thanks for sharing that story, Jackie.
01:03:30.000 --> 01:03:40.480
I remember it like it was yesterday, and I think it's something I've always been proud about being part of Hogan in a world that's driven by KPIs, money, return on investments.
01:03:40.800 --> 01:03:47.599
We've had the opportunity to put a line in the sand and say that we care more about humans and people than we do those kinds of things.
01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:52.800
Now, of course, we want to do amazing work, but it's about doing amazing work through people.
01:03:52.880 --> 01:04:01.519
And I think it's a story that really exemplifies how altruism not only impacts our clients, but that we practice it and preach it here at Hogan.
01:04:01.679 --> 01:04:04.880
And it's a very fundamental to the fabric of who we are as an organization.
01:04:05.599 --> 01:04:06.400
Dusty in my room.
01:04:06.480 --> 01:04:07.119
Sorry, y'all.
01:04:07.280 --> 01:04:10.559
Um, well, um I'm not crying, you're crying.
01:04:10.800 --> 01:04:11.920
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:15.039
Uh you know, I I I had a couple different directions.
01:04:15.119 --> 01:04:16.079
I I wasn't sure.
01:04:16.159 --> 01:04:21.280
I I kind of want to hear you all first before I even kind of but but I'm I'm gonna go ahead and talk about the one, you know.
01:04:21.360 --> 01:04:24.639
I was I had a hedonism example and altruism one too.
01:04:24.880 --> 01:04:34.159
But I'm gonna go with hedonism on this one, and this happened just recently, and um it was whenever we were all together this last time at the town hall.
01:04:34.480 --> 01:04:37.599
And Jackie, even at the start of it, you were like, Blake, are you are you good today?
01:04:37.760 --> 01:04:46.079
I was like, my social battery is worn down, you know, like it had been a long week at that point, but we were doing our Hogan Game Day, our summer camp, or whatever you want to call it.
01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:55.199
It was a it was a fun time, and we have all these new people because like yeah, you see so many um new faces because we have uh we're we've grown so much.
01:04:55.840 --> 01:05:05.199
But and I think through the years, you know, it kind of felt with that growth and then you know us not being in the same place with each other as much.
01:05:06.320 --> 01:05:12.639
It it didn't feel quite like the Hogan that we maybe knew.
01:05:12.800 --> 01:05:18.400
Um and we're gonna talk about the old building here in a second, but that day it did.
01:05:19.199 --> 01:05:23.840
You know, like it was everything kind of came back.
01:05:23.920 --> 01:05:36.800
Like, I'm getting goosebumps just thinking about it, but like I even I I I remember like trying to take in the moment, and I I even went up like up top and kind of took a picture down uh at everybody who because you could just see everybody having fun.
01:05:37.280 --> 01:05:43.039
And I just remember telling people, I was like, this is this is Hogan.
01:05:43.199 --> 01:05:47.440
Like like, you know, we might have had some growth, and you know, we don't get to see each other that much.
01:05:47.599 --> 01:05:51.760
We might not even know a lot of these people all that well because there's so many of us now.
01:05:52.079 --> 01:05:59.519
But we were all on the same page that day, and that was all about having a good time, enjoying each other, and that is what I mean.
01:06:00.400 --> 01:06:02.800
A culture like that isn't built overnight.
01:06:03.039 --> 01:06:09.599
I mean, a culture like that takes the almost forty years that we're at to really come together.
01:06:09.840 --> 01:06:11.599
And that was just a special day.
01:06:11.760 --> 01:06:16.800
And I hope we have more of those, but that one it felt it felt good that day.
01:06:17.039 --> 01:06:20.639
So I hope you uncrazy.
01:06:20.960 --> 01:06:22.239
I think we all felt that way, Blake.
01:06:22.400 --> 01:06:23.599
That day it was uh it was good.
01:06:23.840 --> 01:06:35.679
And you know, COVID in the middle of all of that as well, where people were just spread all over the world in regards, and we were prevented from coming together, which was such a core component to the Hogan culture.
01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:37.440
So I I I agree with you with it.
01:06:37.519 --> 01:06:41.039
And I had a very similar experience uh at uh Hogan camp this summer.
01:06:41.280 --> 01:06:48.719
Yeah, well, hopefully we'll just we're gonna do an AI version of you in the outfit you were wearing at the as the camp counselor.
01:06:49.360 --> 01:06:50.559
Glad I could play my part.
01:06:50.800 --> 01:06:52.639
Yeah, yeah, you played it well though.
01:06:52.880 --> 01:07:00.639
Uh okay, so uh we're we're getting close to bringing this in for a landing, but uh you know, Hogan's current HQ is a state-of-the-art facility.
01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:04.480
It came uh it opened in 2015 uh in downtown Tulsa.
01:07:04.719 --> 01:07:10.400
But um, you know, most of those employees today, that's all they've known.
01:07:10.719 --> 01:07:19.440
But the four of us were lucky enough to get to just I only got to work for like 11 months in the old building, but it was memorable, but you all had more time there.
01:07:19.519 --> 01:07:25.119
So, you know, tell us your your favorite little story from the old Hogan HQ in Midtown, Tulsa.
01:07:25.360 --> 01:07:32.239
Well, like, since we were just talking about Hogan Summer Camp and Game Day, I can kick us off with my story here.
01:07:32.400 --> 01:07:42.960
Um, Hogan Game Day actually started a long time ago um in the old building, and the the first one is probably the most memorable for me.
01:07:43.440 --> 01:07:50.239
Um, and then we can also talk about why Chris Duffy is the MC because he won too many years in a row.
01:07:50.480 --> 01:07:54.159
Um so now he gets MC game day.
01:07:54.320 --> 01:08:03.280
Um but the that first game day was um what was so much fun about it is the informality of it.
01:08:03.440 --> 01:08:14.880
We played minute to one games, there were a lot of ping pong balls and tissue boxes and and cups involved, um, you know, what we can do with all of those things.
01:08:15.039 --> 01:08:20.159
Um, and at the time we were in a building where we were sort of back on our own.
01:08:20.319 --> 01:08:28.640
Um, there was a you know a big parking lot that we kind of took over for this game day and just spent time together.
01:08:28.880 --> 01:08:38.159
Um there was competition, we we learned very quickly what our own and our colleagues' strengths and weaknesses were in these games.
01:08:38.399 --> 01:08:42.880
Um, but there was really just so much camaraderie.
01:08:43.039 --> 01:08:47.279
Um, and it and it really started the like official Hogan t-shirts too.
01:08:47.359 --> 01:08:52.079
So we all had our game day shirts, um, we had our prizes.
01:08:52.239 --> 01:08:59.119
Um, there are probably some other good pictures of of Duffy that we could turn into AI images uh for this podcast as well.
01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:31.359
Um AI for the back in the rail for that, but um but I mean that's one of the things there are a lot of things that stand out to me about the old building, everything from you know, we we outgrew it long before the new building was ready, and we shared offices and became you know what we might call logistical masters in terms of when we had phone calls, um, you know, how we uh were able to learn from each other from being in such close proximity.
01:09:31.840 --> 01:09:42.640
But game day is one that really stands out as everyone just came together and kind of set everything aside for a day and you know, and and have fun together.
01:09:42.880 --> 01:09:47.119
Yeah, I'd echo game day was certainly memorable experiences in the old building, Jennifer.
01:09:47.199 --> 01:09:52.479
It's probably the first time I realized I had an identity versus reputation crisis.
01:09:52.800 --> 01:09:57.600
I thought I hit my competitive spirit fairly well, but evidently not.
01:09:57.760 --> 01:10:02.880
And uh so reputationally it was clear I was getting some feedback that maybe I overdid it at that time.
01:10:03.359 --> 01:10:05.920
But very, very memorable experiences.
01:10:06.079 --> 01:10:11.760
Um, I think the only thing I'd say or add to that, I love the fact that we had a small building.
01:10:11.920 --> 01:10:16.880
One of the things we used to say when we hired someone, and hiring someone in the early days at Hogan was a big deal.
01:10:17.039 --> 01:10:25.279
I mean, you you were talking about in some cases one or two hires was a double-digit increase in the total number of individuals we had in the organization.
01:10:25.680 --> 01:10:28.640
We asked the question, would you share your office with this individual?
01:10:28.720 --> 01:10:34.399
And it was a way of thinking about the interview and selection process in a holistic way, but it's actually true.
01:10:35.760 --> 01:10:38.880
Because you had to share your office with somebody.
01:10:39.359 --> 01:10:49.680
And I appreciated that, and I love that about our early days when we were all learning together and sharing experiences, it made us an extremely efficient organization.
01:10:49.920 --> 01:10:51.119
I missed some of that aspect.
01:10:51.279 --> 01:11:00.640
I do not want to go back to sharing my office with anyone, but I do miss the collaboration and the closeness that we all had together when we were in the office.
01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:05.039
And not only did you share your office with a couple other colleagues, but they brought their dogs to work.
01:11:05.119 --> 01:11:09.840
And so you had a couple of dogs and two or three other colleagues in your office at the same time.
01:11:10.000 --> 01:11:11.760
And I enjoyed every single minute of it.
01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:13.119
Yeah, I it's funny.
01:11:13.279 --> 01:11:22.399
I I have both these kind of specific memories and stories about the old building, but also there are just these features that were a part of the everyday.
01:11:22.479 --> 01:11:27.760
And one of the things I was going to talk about, Chris, was the the close quarters and the sharing of offices.
01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:32.800
And at some at certain points, it wasn't just with one other person, it was two to three other people.
01:11:32.880 --> 01:11:43.439
And granted, they were pretty large rooms, but we had these you know desks that were set up specifically so each person could sort of have a corner of the room.
01:11:43.680 --> 01:11:51.119
Um but it had this feeling of maybe being a little bit like having roommates.
01:11:51.279 --> 01:11:59.199
Um, so that was, you know, it comes with its challenges, but it created this culture that I now really miss, or this facet of our culture.
01:11:59.279 --> 01:12:00.880
And I I still talk about it.
01:12:01.039 --> 01:12:01.920
Jennifer knows this.
01:12:02.000 --> 01:12:05.359
I probably brought it up this week, and I call it turning the chair around.
01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:12.399
And I I miss that about us being uh primarily virtual now, or at least a lot a lot of us are.
01:12:12.960 --> 01:12:21.439
But back in those days, if you had a pro problem or a question or a challenging client case or something, you could just literally swivel your chair around and be like, hey, you got a minute?
01:12:21.840 --> 01:12:27.920
Um, so it was this very collaborative, learning-oriented culture where we were all in it together.
01:12:28.399 --> 01:12:30.239
And there are other examples of that.
01:12:30.399 --> 01:12:37.039
So I was thinking about um, you know, Tulsa doesn't get a lot of snow, but on the days that it did, you know, nobody could drive in.
01:12:37.119 --> 01:12:38.960
They don't, they can't clear the roads.
01:12:39.039 --> 01:12:45.199
But Chris Duffy would would get in his uh truck with, you know, he had the special snow gear.
01:12:45.279 --> 01:12:46.880
I don't even know what it is, because I'm from Florida.
01:12:46.960 --> 01:12:48.159
I don't know about these things.
01:12:48.319 --> 01:12:54.399
But he would literally go around and pick everybody up from their houses and we'd carpal into work together.
01:12:54.560 --> 01:12:56.000
And our power was out.
01:12:56.079 --> 01:13:01.760
So we'd come to the Hogan building for warmth and uh internet and employment and other things.
01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:07.199
Um, but just those the way those ways in which we would band together when things were tough.
01:13:07.279 --> 01:13:18.880
You know, if it was a super busy month for the accounting team, everybody, no matter their pay grade, would come to the front of the building and fold invoices because we used to send them by snail mail in in the olden days.
01:13:19.279 --> 01:13:24.880
Uh so it was like a it was a very um what's the right word?
01:13:25.039 --> 01:13:26.880
Like a everybody chipped in.
01:13:26.960 --> 01:13:35.760
It was a um not a flat or I mean I guess a flat organizational culture, but it was a ever nobody's too good to fold invoices, right?
01:13:36.000 --> 01:13:40.159
Um so it felt like this real connected culture.
01:13:40.560 --> 01:13:44.560
And then the last thing I wanted to share, because this is just a fun, fun thing to know.
01:13:44.960 --> 01:13:49.840
At the old building, there was this very strange artwork all over the walls.
01:13:50.079 --> 01:13:53.279
And when you're new, you notice it right away.
01:13:53.359 --> 01:14:00.319
You're like, okay, there are rorschok, rors, I can never say this word, rorschach prints, you know, the inkblot images on the walls.
01:14:00.479 --> 01:14:14.000
There are copies of images from the um stigmatic apperception test of TAT, which is like a projective psychological assessment that are they're very strange-looking images and a number of other things.
01:14:14.399 --> 01:14:19.520
And it really points to our roots and psychology and um, you know, personality.
01:14:20.399 --> 01:14:24.079
But you get accustomed to them over time and they just kind of become part of the scenery.
01:14:24.159 --> 01:14:29.760
But every once in a while someone sort of point them out to you and you know, you tell a story about why they're there.
01:14:30.159 --> 01:14:38.960
But when we sold the building, there was a um an effort that I was later called the preserving of the antiquities.
01:14:39.199 --> 01:14:46.399
And there were several of us who, you know, some of these things were about to be sort of thrown away, or you know, who knows where they were gonna go, maybe in storage.
01:14:46.800 --> 01:14:53.520
Um, but several of us were running around the building, like saving these old, you know, T T prints and ink blot images.
01:14:53.600 --> 01:14:55.760
And so I have a I have a bunch here.
01:14:56.239 --> 01:15:03.920
Um paid an exorbitant amount to have them uh shipped home to me in Florida, but it's just one of those things that I I'll always hang on to.
01:15:04.239 --> 01:15:04.960
What about you, Blake?
01:15:05.279 --> 01:15:08.239
There was one morning and it had been storming a lot.
01:15:08.479 --> 01:15:13.199
Um and I I I went in a different door, you know, um for the marketing.
01:15:13.279 --> 01:15:17.920
So I went in on that door between research and and the you know, the main building.
01:15:18.239 --> 01:15:25.359
Um but at the there was a lot of people gathering around the front entrance one morning um after it stormed all night.
01:15:25.760 --> 01:15:26.640
I'm like, what's going on?
01:15:26.720 --> 01:15:41.520
I'm going down to get coffee, and there was um they were all huddled around a d a dog um that had made it to uh I mean like this dog was on like I mean it was it made it to the Hogan building, but it it was rough.
01:15:41.760 --> 01:15:49.840
This dog was old, it was skin and bones, like it had a pretty pretty rough life, uh pretty rough go at it, and then with to count all the storms.
01:15:50.159 --> 01:15:53.920
Um this dog was basically on death's door.
01:15:54.239 --> 01:15:58.000
Um lucky for it, that door had the the Hogan H on it.
01:15:58.560 --> 01:16:01.199
And uh yeah, I kept it.
01:16:01.439 --> 01:16:03.600
Yeah and uh her name was Lady.
01:16:03.760 --> 01:16:09.840
I kept her alive for three years after that, but like she was 10 plus years old.
01:16:09.920 --> 01:16:13.279
They didn't know how old she was, she was like almost dead.
01:16:13.680 --> 01:16:17.439
But uh really, really, really cool experience.
01:16:17.680 --> 01:16:18.079
Yeah.
01:16:18.720 --> 01:16:21.600
And and and the whole the whole Hogan team chipped in.
01:16:21.760 --> 01:16:33.359
Like, whoever, like, somebody's gonna take this dog, we're putting money in so this person can like you know, get it, you know, vaccinated, get food, get like, you know, uh, you know, a kennel or whatever for it.
01:16:33.600 --> 01:16:47.279
Um and that just showed me like the altruism side of Hogan coming together and and plus around a dog, but but like I said, I mean that dog was on on desk door and it had a Hogan H on it, so it was lucky as hell.
01:16:47.439 --> 01:16:48.720
So really, really cool.
01:16:48.880 --> 01:16:51.520
And I I love that dog to death, still think about her all the time.
01:16:51.760 --> 01:16:53.520
So lady, we miss you.
01:16:53.680 --> 01:16:55.600
Yeah, okay.
01:16:56.800 --> 01:16:58.319
All right, last question here.
01:16:58.479 --> 01:17:10.159
Uh, you know, you all have seen Hogan's evolution from small uh small mom and pop shop to the world's leading personality assessment company in uh with more than 400, 150 employees today.
01:17:10.239 --> 01:17:13.840
So, what's your vision for where Hogan will be in 10, 15, 20 years from now?
01:17:14.079 --> 01:17:15.520
Yeah, I can get us kicked off, Blake.
01:17:15.760 --> 01:17:16.720
Um it's really interesting.
01:17:16.880 --> 01:17:27.039
If we tie this back to the last question about Hogan headquarters, one of the things I remember a lot is that it was a non-stop revolving door uh for Netflix discs that came through the front office.
01:17:27.199 --> 01:17:30.720
I mean, everyone was shipping disks in and out, DVDs back and forth.
01:17:30.960 --> 01:17:35.920
We would sometimes steal someone's return disk because we wanted to watch it before it got sent back.
01:17:36.319 --> 01:17:40.319
But I think that's pretty analogous to where I see the future of Hogan.
01:17:40.640 --> 01:17:50.960
Um, the problems we solve, um, the people problems that we solve, the insights that we provide, whether that's at an individual level, whether it's at a team level, whether that's at leadership level, they're universal.
01:17:51.119 --> 01:17:52.640
They're always going to exist.
01:17:52.960 --> 01:17:58.880
The relevance with which we interact with our audiences is going to be absolutely critical to Hogan's success.
01:17:59.039 --> 01:18:03.840
And it's been a huge emphasis strategically for us over the last three or four years.
01:18:04.000 --> 01:18:07.359
Allison, our CEO, has been crystal clear about that.
01:18:07.600 --> 01:18:13.920
Remaining relevant in a world that is fast, if it is moving fast, changing quick, is extremely important.
01:18:14.399 --> 01:18:29.039
And while we continue to invest in the science of what we do, the efficacy, the predictability of everything that we do, we're continuing to invest to ensure that we remain relevant with our audiences and can deliver and solve those problems that I think will be universal in the future.
01:18:29.199 --> 01:18:35.760
So lots to come in the future, extremely excited about what the future has for Hogan and glad to be a part of that.
01:18:36.079 --> 01:18:36.640
Jennifer?
01:18:36.880 --> 01:19:00.319
Yeah, I think just to add to that of continuing to move forward as our client needs evolve, as our business needs change, um, but in reflecting on this conversation today, you know, while also trying to hold on to what is so pure and great about our organization's culture.
01:19:00.399 --> 01:19:07.199
Um, like I think you said it, like culture like this isn't built overnight, um, it continues to evolve.
01:19:07.439 --> 01:19:13.279
And um, the Hogan Summer Camp that we we talked about from the summer was an evolution of that.
01:19:13.600 --> 01:19:20.880
Um, but you know, we were also able to see wow how things have changed and we've continue continue to grow.
01:19:21.119 --> 01:19:31.119
And I think Hogan does such amazing work and makes such an impact in the lives of leaders.
01:19:31.600 --> 01:19:46.079
We impact whether or not you know someone gets a job that they like and they want to be at, and you know, the and we know leaders impact so much about our day-to-day and you know what we carry home with us from that too.
01:19:46.239 --> 01:20:08.399
So you know, my hope is 10 years from now, 15 years from now, we're staying true to our core, and in the sense that we are focused on making a difference for people and their work lives, but also continuing to meet the needs of the market, continuing to grow and expand as an organization.
01:20:08.720 --> 01:20:12.159
I would echo what our colleagues have said so far, Blake.
01:20:12.399 --> 01:20:30.239
Um, what I would add is I guess what I hope for Hogan is and what I think we're we are capable of, is becoming the trusted name in personality assessment, specifically for leadership development and decision support around leadership.
01:20:30.399 --> 01:20:41.760
Because, you know, I I think we are number one, we're operating in a market where there's been a lot of consolidation and um there's a lot of PE money in our space right now.
01:20:41.920 --> 01:20:46.800
But one thing that makes Hogan distinctive is we are one of the last of the true independents.
01:20:47.119 --> 01:20:51.920
We don't answer to PE money, we don't uh we can do things our way.
01:20:52.399 --> 01:21:02.319
And luckily for us in the world, our way is a very ethical uh way of doing business and bringing our science to life.
01:21:02.640 --> 01:21:17.199
So I really think, you know, if we if we could expand our footprint and expand that trust that we have with so many customers today, um, I think we really do make a difference in the quality of leadership worldwide.
01:21:17.600 --> 01:21:25.199
Um so I would love to see us come fully into that and you know, really start to own that space.
01:21:25.840 --> 01:21:34.960
I think we do in you know, in in some pockets of the day, but I think we have a lot a lot more of a difference that we can make there and do it in a way that, you know, we're really proud of.
01:21:35.359 --> 01:22:01.279
Yeah, well, uh I'll I'll wrap this thing up, kind of just um basically saying, you know, we have the data uh earlier this year that we saw, you know, with the uh you know the global leadership effectiveness survey that we now are talking about the leadership divide, and there's obviously some kind of leadership crisis going on globally where um the leaders that we have are not the the leaders that um are you know the employees and the and the people really want.
01:22:01.439 --> 01:22:15.119
Um and Jackie, you said it in the last episode um and it was very it I think it was like the the poll quote that we had was kind of like you were like if we can just move the needle just a little bit and we can have a like a huge impact.
01:22:15.199 --> 01:22:31.359
And I think from a leadership standpoint, if we can continue to do that, continue to push forward on that front, because I do think that the definition of Hogan, you know, that Hogan has on leadership of um you know developing and maintaining a high-performing team, I think it is right.
01:22:31.680 --> 01:22:36.800
I think we need to convince more people that that's right, and that's what we're gonna do.
01:22:36.960 --> 01:22:43.279
I mean, and in my job as a PR person is just to amplify that as much as possible, but I can't do that without the work that the three of you all are doing.
01:22:43.520 --> 01:22:45.840
So um you all are great.
01:22:46.000 --> 01:22:48.880
I and I I'm so I'm I'm honored to work with all of you.
01:22:49.039 --> 01:22:53.520
This is fun, and I I really appreciate y'all joining us for this episode.
01:22:53.760 --> 01:22:54.880
Thanks for asking us, Blake.
01:22:54.960 --> 01:22:55.520
It was a pleasure.
01:22:55.680 --> 01:22:56.880
Really enjoyed it.
01:22:58.960 --> 01:22:59.680
Thanks, Nick.
01:23:00.239 --> 01:23:02.640
And that does it for this episode of The Science of Personality.
01:23:02.720 --> 01:23:07.680
Be sure to join us in two weeks for another fun and informative and spooky episode.
01:23:07.920 --> 01:23:09.439
Cheers, everybody.