Managing Stakeholder Perception: How Product Leaders Build—and Lose—Influence (with Carolyn Dolezal & Kate Leto)

WEBVTT
00:00:01.739 --> 00:00:10.199
Most of us spend years climbing the corporate ladder only to realize that the keys to the corner office don't necessarily come with the keys to the hearts and minds of your team.
00:00:10.529 --> 00:00:21.989
So we brought together two executive coaches who have seen it all — Carolyn Dolezal, COO at Americas' SAP Users' Group, and Kate Leto, who's coach senior teams at JP Morgan Chase, The Financial Times, and more.
00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:32.850
They joined us for a candid panel discussion about the myths, realities, and challenges of executive leadership, and specifically the ways leaders can gain the confidence and trust of internal and external stakeholders.
00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:43.679
You'll hear their unfiltered insights on why your personal agenda might be sabotaging your C-suite team, how to build influence when the odds are stacked against you, and the art of recovering from early leadership mistakes.
00:00:43.979 --> 00:00:49.469
Whether you're already in the C-suite or making your way there, these tactics will impact the way you lead starting today.
00:00:49.558 --> 00:00:50.250
Let's jump in.
00:00:51.268 --> 00:00:56.939
Oh, by the way, we hold conversations like this every week, so if this sounds interesting to you, why not subscribe?
00:00:57.149 --> 00:00:57.390
Okay.
00:00:57.390 --> 00:00:58.198
Now let's jump in.
00:01:01.329 --> 00:01:03.149
Without further ado, I'll introduce our guests today.
00:01:03.149 --> 00:01:05.200
So first up, we've got Carolyn Dolezal.
00:01:05.219 --> 00:01:12.299
She is the COO at Americas' SAP Users' Group, or ASUG, and an executive coach dedicated to developing high performing leaders.
00:01:12.644 --> 00:01:22.094
She's got a background in operations and organizational strategy, and she helps teams scale sustainably while empowering individuals to lead with clarity, confidence, and impact.
00:01:22.515 --> 00:01:24.254
So Carolyn, thank you for joining us today.
00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:25.155
Thank you.
00:01:25.605 --> 00:01:26.265
Glad to be here.
00:01:26.774 --> 00:01:29.564
I'll toss a little jeopardy question to you to get us acquainted.
00:01:29.834 --> 00:01:34.454
Carolyn, as someone who's coached execs and run ops yourself at scale, you have seen a few things.
00:01:34.724 --> 00:01:41.385
What's something that's commonly touted as a leadership best practice that you think is, it maybe makes you roll your eyes a little bit?
00:01:41.635 --> 00:01:52.015
One of the ones I can think of, and it's some advice that was given to me initially as I was entering, is never let 'em see you sweat, lead with an iron fist, and kind of goad people to their best performance.
00:01:52.284 --> 00:01:59.564
I think there's some merit to setting high standards and encouraging people to get to the best performance, but acting like a field marshal, I don't think is effective.
00:02:00.325 --> 00:02:00.564
Great.
00:02:00.614 --> 00:02:01.424
Thank you for joining us.
00:02:01.635 --> 00:02:02.984
Next, we have Kate Leto.
00:02:03.284 --> 00:02:09.854
Kate has been immersed in product management, organizational design, and personal development for 25 years, and she's an accredited executive coach.
00:02:09.884 --> 00:02:17.324
She's worked with senior teams and individuals at JP Morgan Chase, The Financial Times, Comic Relief, TUI, The Boeing Company, Merck, and many more.
00:02:17.655 --> 00:02:18.585
Kate, thank you for joining us.
00:02:19.004 --> 00:02:19.604
Thank you.
00:02:19.604 --> 00:02:20.504
Very happy to be here.
00:02:21.014 --> 00:02:26.025
So Kate, you've led some teams as a product leader, and now you coach top execs across many different industries.
00:02:26.294 --> 00:02:33.120
So what's one belief about leadership that you have held onto that coaching has changed your perspective on?
00:02:33.509 --> 00:02:41.849
Yeah, I'd say the biggest, strongest belief that I had when I entered my first product leadership role was that I had to have all the answers right.
00:02:41.849 --> 00:02:44.069
I had to know exactly what we needed to do.
00:02:44.069 --> 00:02:51.180
I had to be able to fix any kind of challenge that my team or the organization was walking into, but it was all on me.
00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:53.400
I needed to be the hero, like every day.
00:02:53.849 --> 00:03:07.259
And as a coach, I see how harmful that is not only on, the individual who, if they're actually trying to do that is, is going to face some challenges in wellness and health and mentally as well.
00:03:07.259 --> 00:03:10.889
Just being able to kind of power through, but also to the organization.
00:03:10.949 --> 00:03:16.530
Because if you've got, if you're this leader who handles everyone's challenges and problems, you're not letting people grow.
00:03:16.590 --> 00:03:20.639
You're not letting people handle their own challenges and take on those for themselves.
00:03:20.819 --> 00:03:27.194
So I'd say that's the biggest mind shift I've had going from product leader to coach.
00:03:27.585 --> 00:03:33.854
So today's session, we'll be focusing on managing stakeholder perception, how product leaders build and lose influence.
00:03:34.245 --> 00:03:36.495
We'll be talking about this topic in three sections.
00:03:36.810 --> 00:03:39.120
Section one will be the fact and fiction of executive leadership.
00:03:39.120 --> 00:03:42.360
We'll go through some myths versus reality and some best practices in that way.
00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:46.710
Then we'll focus in our second section on navigating external stakeholder relationships.
00:03:47.009 --> 00:03:54.960
Then on our final third section, we will talk about working with internal stakeholders, which I'm sure is what everyone is very focused on.
00:03:55.289 --> 00:03:57.949
Then towards end, like I said, we'll be doing a Q&A.
00:03:58.349 --> 00:04:09.555
And without further ado, our first question under fact and fiction of executive leadership, what are the most common, unintentional missteps that leaders make as they transition into an executive leadership position?
00:04:09.884 --> 00:04:11.414
Kate, did you wanna take this one from the top?
00:04:11.865 --> 00:04:12.465
Sure.
00:04:12.495 --> 00:04:26.435
I think building off of what I just was talking about in terms of what I learned personally going from being a product leader to being an executive coach is this idea that we have to as leader or executive or member of the C-Suite, that we know it all.
00:04:26.824 --> 00:04:31.254
And that we have to be able to solve or that we can solve any challenge that's coming our way.
00:04:31.644 --> 00:04:37.735
I've seen it referred to, and I often use with my clients the phrase strategic over functioning, right?
00:04:37.735 --> 00:04:42.595
Like that we think that we need to be able to handle it all and that we can handle it all.
00:04:43.134 --> 00:04:52.985
So I think that's something that continues to stand out as a problem that we're dealing with and the lead leaders as we kinda step into these roles.
00:04:52.985 --> 00:05:00.259
It's just that we put it on ourselves to be able to take charge and handle all of the problems and come up with all these great solutions.
00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:04.759
And I think it just puts us as leaders into a very awkward position from the get go.
00:05:05.269 --> 00:05:08.000
So I say that's one of the biggest missteps that I've seen.
00:05:08.300 --> 00:05:10.100
Carolyn, did you have anything you wanted to build onto that?
00:05:10.490 --> 00:05:15.589
I think as you enter into the leadership role, it is a little bit as Kate was talking about.
00:05:15.589 --> 00:05:18.079
It's not a performance, it's not performance art.
00:05:18.110 --> 00:05:19.579
There's gotta be substance.
00:05:19.879 --> 00:05:22.160
And then how do you build your substance quickly?
00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:23.660
Because you don't know all these things.
00:05:23.660 --> 00:05:24.860
You don't know all the answers.
00:05:25.189 --> 00:05:34.129
What I found is useful is if you have a process through which you're gonna gather information about customer needs, stakeholder needs, staff needs.
00:05:34.459 --> 00:05:35.629
Articulate your process.
00:05:35.629 --> 00:05:37.339
Tell people how you're going to come into this.
00:05:37.339 --> 00:05:40.430
You're not coming on in day one with a lot of heavy pronouncements.
00:05:40.819 --> 00:05:41.899
And then listen.
00:05:42.334 --> 00:05:51.154
Listen really hard and really ask those questions because you want to be able to make smart decisions and you can't do that without data and information.
00:05:51.154 --> 00:05:53.975
And the best way to get data and information, I have found is to ask.
00:05:54.214 --> 00:05:57.935
Ask at various levels and ask in various pockets of interest.
00:05:58.444 --> 00:05:59.435
Do you have anything to add, Kate?
00:05:59.735 --> 00:06:07.394
Just one other thought that I had about it is that, when we step into leadership roles, we're often going to be modeling the leadership that we've seen before.
00:06:07.785 --> 00:06:16.754
Be it, you know that iron fist often is what we have in the back of our minds 'cause it's the way that we were managed perhaps, and other roles in other organizations.
00:06:17.235 --> 00:06:22.305
What I've noticed is that there's this tendency to just adopt that style, right?
00:06:22.814 --> 00:06:24.464
And try to make it our own.
00:06:24.884 --> 00:06:27.795
And as we do that, we kind lose our own authenticity.
00:06:27.855 --> 00:06:35.134
We lose touch with who we are and our values and what our skills really are and in many ways what got us to that role.
00:06:35.495 --> 00:06:47.845
So I think that's another common misstep, is that we're not taught how to be a leader and much, against kind of what some kind of common concepts are that I don't think we're born, I don't think there are many born leaders either.
00:06:47.845 --> 00:06:50.004
I think it's something that we learn and something that we grow.
00:06:50.454 --> 00:07:03.214
It's a developmental skill like anything else but in, in kind of the vacuum that we often step into as a new leader, or even moving up kind of the corporate ladder into the C-Suite.
00:07:03.545 --> 00:07:05.764
We still don't really know what we're doing, right?
00:07:05.824 --> 00:07:12.774
We're making it up as we go along, and we do have that tendency to just grab onto what we've seen before and what we've experienced before.
00:07:13.074 --> 00:07:29.160
Instead of really taking the time to have a good understanding and build our own self-awareness of okay, who are we and how do I wanna bring that into an organization and build relationships with my team, be it C-Suite team members, or folks that are part of my team and my organization.
00:07:29.490 --> 00:07:37.879
So I think that's something else to be very aware of as, we're stepping into it, be it our first leadership role or much higher up that ladder is.
00:07:38.449 --> 00:07:47.598
Unless we do take some time to step back and think about what kind of, what does it mean to be a leader and how do I wanna bring that into my work every day?
00:07:47.959 --> 00:07:54.228
I think we do fall into that vacuum of just grabbing and adopting what we've seen before, and I think that's really dangerous.
00:07:54.709 --> 00:07:55.129
Good point.
00:07:55.129 --> 00:08:07.154
And I think that leads really well into our next question about pervasive and maybe unhelpful tropes about being in the C-suite that might maybe dissuade people from feeling that they have a position there or that they would fit with that kind of a culture.
00:08:07.485 --> 00:08:11.055
Or that might be just setting people up for the wrong expectations in the role.
00:08:11.355 --> 00:08:15.495
So what would some of those more pervasive myths look like?
00:08:15.795 --> 00:08:16.839
Carolyn, did you wanna take this one?
00:08:17.324 --> 00:08:32.783
I think one of the ones that I know I had thought was true and then encountered is as your added level in the organization, and you look upward, my tendency was to believe that these people were in those roles because they had things figured out and the alignment was there and this is what we were aspiring to be.
00:08:32.875 --> 00:08:38.335
And then sometimes even if the modeling of the behavior wasn't exactly what I wanted, but that leadership seemed great.
00:08:38.754 --> 00:08:50.815
What I found when I actually entered the room is not everybody in that room, even though we're called the leadership team or the executive team, not everybody's agenda and not everybody's goals are necessarily aligned.
00:08:51.203 --> 00:08:54.174
And I assume that's established there and then cascaded.
00:08:54.203 --> 00:08:57.745
And that's how we, at our earlier levels, understood what to do next.
00:08:58.134 --> 00:08:59.453
But it caught me by surprise.
00:08:59.924 --> 00:09:05.458
There are private gendas, there are functional agendas, there are, real estate grab agendas that kind of happen through things.
00:09:05.458 --> 00:09:16.019
So just assuming that because you're on the team that the team has common interests is something that you wanna examine and test those assumptions, and it does come from the top.
00:09:16.019 --> 00:09:21.169
And then likewise you for your team, et cetera, to just keep reinforcing that 'cause things do shift, things drift.
00:09:21.169 --> 00:09:23.749
And then people are humans, they have their own agenda sometimes.
00:09:24.049 --> 00:09:26.479
Not everybody is aligned even though you think they should be.
00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:27.860
Kate, did you wanna add on that?
00:09:28.249 --> 00:09:50.813
To add on to that and to add on to what I was saying just a minute ago about some of the common missteps and the fact that we, leadership itself is something that we learn through practice and we learn through trying to focus on specific skills is that it's we need to realize that just because they're in the C-suite doesn't mean that the personal development or that leadership development stops, or that the learning stops.
00:09:50.813 --> 00:09:56.009
I think a lot of times we have that kind of impression in my, in our minds, that they're in the C-Suite.
00:09:56.038 --> 00:09:58.438
They're the CTO or the cmo, or the CEO.
00:09:58.678 --> 00:10:01.318
They must know everything that they need to know, right?
00:10:01.349 --> 00:10:04.379
They must be really good at their jobs and they've got it all up here.
00:10:04.688 --> 00:10:13.519
To Carolyn's point that it doesn't mean that the team is aligned by any means, but it also doesn't mean that leader should stop growing, right?
00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:14.779
Or can stop growing.
00:10:14.779 --> 00:10:18.769
That personal development comes to a halt the minute they step into the C-suite.
00:10:19.129 --> 00:10:26.210
That's something that's really important as well, because just because you're an executive, it doesn't mean you, you do stop growing, doesn't mean you do stop learning.
00:10:26.210 --> 00:10:30.529
The best ones continue to evolve and continue to grow.
00:10:30.828 --> 00:10:35.379
And I think toward that is that, where do you as a leader get your feedback?
00:10:36.063 --> 00:10:37.443
Are you getting feedback?
00:10:37.443 --> 00:10:41.793
Are you listening with the intention of using that to continue to improve and grow?
00:10:42.094 --> 00:10:46.053
And I think what's sometimes challenging is as you get to the higher levels, is who?
00:10:46.114 --> 00:10:50.524
Who will speak to the truth to you, who dares to speak the truth to you?
00:10:50.823 --> 00:10:53.043
Depending on how their experience with leadership is.
00:10:53.053 --> 00:10:55.063
I don't wanna tell 'em anything they don't already wanna hear.
00:10:55.573 --> 00:10:58.333
That can be extremely damaging to the organization.
00:10:58.333 --> 00:11:01.813
So it takes trust, it takes a willingness to take that feedback in.
00:11:01.813 --> 00:11:08.984
Listen, and if there's a mistake or an error or a shift, acknowledging it, that can be really powerful in an organization.
00:11:09.043 --> 00:11:11.264
And the leader's gotta be willing to take it on first.
00:11:11.474 --> 00:11:17.804
And I think asking for feedback versus hoping people wander in and offer it because they might do it to their own detriment.
00:11:18.104 --> 00:11:26.364
I think asking for feedback, listening carefully to it, and then acknowledging it and then saying to the organization, you're gonna work on something really holds you accountable.
00:11:26.573 --> 00:11:30.534
And I think that Who are your truth tellers and make sure that you access them often.
00:11:30.953 --> 00:11:31.344
Yeah.
00:11:31.394 --> 00:11:42.953
Building influence as an executive, I think one of the best ways you do that, as Carolyn is saying is asking for feedback, taking on board every other people's opinions and perspectives on, whatever it might be.
00:11:42.953 --> 00:11:50.693
A new project, a new hire, a new strategy, a new direction, and getting out into different areas of the organization and different levels.
00:11:50.693 --> 00:11:55.014
Not just always going to the person right below you for that feedback, right?
00:11:55.374 --> 00:12:07.774
Getting into the different areas and different levels of your organization to build those relationships and ensure you're building that habit of feedback, of asking for feedback and actually, acknowledging it and taking it on board.
00:12:07.908 --> 00:12:07.969
Yeah.
00:12:08.269 --> 00:12:21.928
I think it goes back to this idea that just because you're an executive doesn't mean that, that you don't, that there's not areas to improve, there's not areas to grow, and there's not areas that you can build relationships to get some really good feedback to help you do that.
00:12:22.619 --> 00:12:23.369
Yeah, absolutely.
00:12:23.369 --> 00:12:39.644
And I, I think when you have those kinds of strong and established relationships, then people really believe and trust that you have their best interests at heart and that you're representing, their voice in your decision, it's strategic, but I think it's also, it's good business and it's makes for a much more rewarding career when you have that kind of a a smooth working relationship.
00:12:40.303 --> 00:12:47.583
Yeah, it's, it's a sure way to grow influence for yourself and to be that model to others in the organization on how they can do it too.
00:12:48.063 --> 00:12:50.433
We'll move then into our next section.
00:12:50.433 --> 00:12:52.594
We shall be navigating external stakeholders.
00:12:52.894 --> 00:13:04.644
We'll move right into our next question, which is, what are the most important habits, policies, and conversations that leaders should be having and committing to if they wanna build those solid relationships with external stakeholders?
00:13:04.644 --> 00:13:07.134
I know we've just touched a little bit on some of those internal relationships.
00:13:07.433 --> 00:13:11.403
Kate, what would you say about some of the best practices for external relationship building?
00:13:11.948 --> 00:13:15.489
I think it's a lot of the same stuff as internal relationship building.
00:13:15.999 --> 00:13:31.173
One of the things that I talk to clients quite a bit about is upfront, be it a new member of a team or a new external stakeholder, is to get really clear about what your expectations are of each other, and actually make some committed agreements around those.
00:13:31.624 --> 00:13:35.734
And that could be anything from how you're gonna communicate when times get tough.
00:13:36.099 --> 00:13:41.109
How you're gonna talk about deadlines and timelines, how your, what your ways of working are going to be.
00:13:41.499 --> 00:13:44.229
Who's responsible for what within the relationship.
00:13:44.604 --> 00:13:50.945
It's actually having an ongoing conversation that you can check in on, what are your expectations of each other?
00:13:51.184 --> 00:13:57.509
What are the agreements that you're going to make and commit to, and make that just an ongoing part of your relationship.
00:13:57.929 --> 00:14:03.629
And that's very relevant 'cause it sounds like navigating competing priorities is a big challenge for external stakeholders.
00:14:03.629 --> 00:14:08.009
Does anyone wanna chime in on maybe some ways to manage some of those kinds of challenges?
00:14:08.389 --> 00:14:15.438
One of the things that I've found helpful, and I've been on both sides of, I've been a external stakeholder providing services and I've been a consumer of service.
00:14:15.828 --> 00:14:22.458
I find it easy to cut to the chase and just ask in an early stage conversations, what does success look like?
00:14:22.818 --> 00:14:25.428
What does success look like for the external stakeholder?
00:14:25.428 --> 00:14:28.548
And then us sharing what we think success looks like.
00:14:28.918 --> 00:14:35.869
One of the things, for instance, as a customer and purchasing from or working with external stakeholders is I need them to be healthy.
00:14:36.109 --> 00:14:37.308
I need them to be viable.
00:14:37.308 --> 00:14:39.288
I need them to have, be profitable.
00:14:39.558 --> 00:14:41.418
And so we are interested in doing that.
00:14:41.418 --> 00:14:45.019
It's not just all about price or that sort of thing, but it's like how are we gonna deliver?
00:14:45.288 --> 00:14:47.269
And how do we make it as smooth as possible?
00:14:47.269 --> 00:14:53.208
And I find that when we can both articulate, although what success looks like, sounds like such a simple question.
00:14:53.208 --> 00:14:57.594
It's a, a Byzantine set of interwoven priorities.
00:14:58.104 --> 00:15:03.563
When you start to talk about it, it's easier to refer back to that and then say, are we tracking to what success looks like?
00:15:03.864 --> 00:15:13.264
And then having that communication cadence, the timing of it, setting up deliberate times to talk, not just about what's happening and the outcomes, but how's it going?
00:15:13.504 --> 00:15:14.974
Is the process working for us?
00:15:15.274 --> 00:15:27.274
I find that helps shortcut a lot of things that could wind up ballooning or festering if they're not addressed in a timely basis, but getting the mutual expectation on what success looks like no matter what your plan is.
00:15:27.274 --> 00:15:29.043
Something else always comes in sideways.
00:15:29.043 --> 00:15:31.053
How do we handle it when something shifts?
00:15:31.384 --> 00:15:39.153
And then being able to talk about it and appreciate and respect the other party and both views because we need both parties to get things done.
00:15:39.663 --> 00:15:54.254
Okay, we'll change a little bit of the pace again because I do wanna talk a little bit about personal branding and some of the ways to navigate sometimes there's push and pull between one's, establishing one's personal brand and then navigating the brand of the organization that you represent.
00:15:54.644 --> 00:15:59.364
There's also the matter of just, making sure that your personal brand continues to represent who you are.
00:15:59.754 --> 00:16:07.134
So what are some effective strategies for navigating just personal branding and the ways that it plays into your professional reputation?
00:16:07.374 --> 00:16:08.634
Carolyn, did you wanna take this one?
00:16:08.964 --> 00:16:17.224
I think what is the public face that you put on, whether it's public, internal to the team, or public to your external stakeholders and the marketplace.
00:16:17.558 --> 00:16:32.918
It's having a really good sense and a strong understanding of what the organization's brand is, and then for yourself, what is your brand, which is a promise of this is what you can expect from me when we have an interaction, and then looking for as much alignment as possible.
00:16:33.278 --> 00:16:39.099
Some organizations expect you to be the public voice for the organization as if you're the spokes model.
00:16:39.479 --> 00:16:43.109
Others let you be you and you're a leader and you happen to be affiliated with this organization.
00:16:43.109 --> 00:16:46.259
So understand what the cultural expectations are.
00:16:46.558 --> 00:16:58.153
I know for instance, when I was working with public companies, you have to be very sensitive and aware of when are you talking as a private citizen and when are you talking or being perceived as being talking as part of that organization.
00:16:58.153 --> 00:17:02.173
So be careful with that, and then within that being true to yourself.
00:17:02.234 --> 00:17:10.163
Because if for some reason the projection of the company isn't aligned with who you are, that's gonna grind on you over time.
00:17:10.163 --> 00:17:15.534
So as, as aligned as you can be, and hopefully there is a strong alignment, but over time, if you are misaligned, it's.
00:17:15.864 --> 00:17:17.483
Might not be the best place for you.
00:17:17.814 --> 00:17:18.263
Fair enough.
00:17:18.263 --> 00:17:19.284
Kate, did you have anything to add?
00:17:19.713 --> 00:17:31.983
I think it comes down to looking for areas that you're gonna have some overlap with your company's brand and focusing on those versus feeling like you have to be an echo, like an echo chamber of everything you're saying and doing.
00:17:32.374 --> 00:17:42.628
It comes back to, again, having a good understanding of what your own values are and how are showing up not just to work to every day, but within your community, right?
00:17:42.628 --> 00:17:51.749
And how, where there is some overlap between that and what your company is bringing on or what your company portrays with their brand.
00:17:52.318 --> 00:18:00.028
And yeah, sometimes there's a lot of tension there and especially, I'd say probably recently there and somewhere, oh yes, there might be more attention than before.
00:18:00.598 --> 00:18:14.439
And I think that's pretty normal because, as, although we sometimes forget that organizations are made up of a lot of individuals, a lot of people, a lot of humans who all have have their own values, their own beliefs, their own experiences that they're bringing on.
00:18:14.739 --> 00:18:22.568
So I think it'd be quite rare for their not to be some kind of tension between that, a personal belief and the company belief.
00:18:22.898 --> 00:18:26.439
Hopefully there is that overlap though, and I think that's what you focus on.
00:18:26.858 --> 00:18:37.959
And it, it's not only representative of what you're saying publicly, perhaps be on LinkedIn or whatever social platform that you use, but also how you're representing yourself internally.
00:18:38.298 --> 00:18:45.679
It's showing up and how you're making decisions and how you're building relationships with your team members and your own managers and things like that.
00:18:45.679 --> 00:18:53.269
So a lot of it, I think just comes back to that core element of having good self-awareness and good understanding of your own values and your own beliefs.
00:18:53.598 --> 00:18:59.239
And how you can bring them forward in a, and hopefully a positive and productive way.
00:18:59.719 --> 00:19:03.739
And then that brings us to our third section, which is working with internal stakeholders.
00:19:03.739 --> 00:19:05.388
Probably the moment that many of us have been waiting for.
00:19:05.628 --> 00:19:13.398
We'll get started with our first question of this section, which is, what are some of the most effective habits that leaders can build to inspire confidence and buy-in with their teams?
00:19:13.398 --> 00:19:17.959
And I think we have touched on some of this before, but I'm sure that there's plenty more that we haven't gotten to.
00:19:17.989 --> 00:19:19.314
Carolyn, if you wanted to take this one away.
00:19:19.773 --> 00:19:26.273
One of the things that I've observed that help build some of that confidence and buy-in with teams is transparency.
00:19:26.273 --> 00:19:37.314
As much transparency as possible, having the relationships with the others that you're working with, because things change and the strength of the relationship and the trust factor there helps you weather a lot of storms.
00:19:37.638 --> 00:19:41.028
It's being very respectful of the other party's time.
00:19:41.028 --> 00:19:42.469
Where do you need to dial them in?
00:19:42.858 --> 00:19:44.209
Where do you want that input?
00:19:44.209 --> 00:19:45.979
How is that input taken and treated?
00:19:46.219 --> 00:19:54.778
And I think just as you talk about the process, narrating it out loud so people know and understand what that is, but it's doing what you say you're gonna do.
00:19:55.173 --> 00:20:02.834
Doing it and then reminding people that it's been done and what's next, I think is a really strong way to keep that faith and trust and smoothness running.
00:20:03.233 --> 00:20:07.463
Kate, I'll let you if you wanted to add anything about effective habits and inspiring confidence.
00:20:07.794 --> 00:20:08.153
Sure.
00:20:08.153 --> 00:20:15.294
Some of the things, you're right, we have touched on, I mentioned that I think it's important to build relationships at all areas of the organization.
00:20:15.294 --> 00:20:31.628
I think that helps build confidence a lot because you are, the doing that I think was the 50% is showing up and is being seen by people throughout an organization, not just perhaps within your silo or within your team, and asking for feedback there.
00:20:31.628 --> 00:20:37.838
I think that's a great kind of signal of the kind of leader you are the kind of leader you're hoping to become.
00:20:38.318 --> 00:20:48.219
But also I'd say one of the key things, and it's interesting, one of my clients shared this with me, that what he really strives to do as a leader is to deliver.
00:20:48.788 --> 00:20:54.624
He feels that the biggest that the best kind of kindness comes from just being clear with messaging.
00:20:55.044 --> 00:21:04.284
Polarity is kindness, is what he said, and what always is in the back of my mind when I'm talking to new leaders who are coming into these roles perhaps for the first time.
00:21:04.554 --> 00:21:09.489
So just being really clear on, again, who you are, what's the direction you're going in.
00:21:09.648 --> 00:21:13.638
To Carolyn's point, being transparent, of course is a big part of that.
00:21:13.909 --> 00:21:22.578
Sharing that information, sharing the why behind the decisions that you're making, but just being as clear as possible as you can and repeating it when you need to repeat it.
00:21:22.878 --> 00:21:31.489
Honing in on the different kind of aspects of how this might impact each individual within your team and also the organization at large.
00:21:31.773 --> 00:21:41.953
Just really keeping in mind that having that clarity, being as clear as you possible is kind to everyone in the organization, and sometimes that means also the feedback that you're giving to others.
00:21:42.374 --> 00:21:51.993
So I think that's a great thing to keep in mind as we're thinking through how you can make influence more real and how you can bring it into kind of the doing aspect of your job.
00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:55.729
So we'll tell a little bit of stories about amazing leadership in action.
00:21:56.088 --> 00:22:07.788
Personally, I'm a big fan of learning through storytelling, so I'd love if if our panelists could share some stories of just some amazing moments of leadership that they feel have a part that we can really take home with us today.
00:22:07.979 --> 00:22:14.608
Carolyn, did you want to share or start us off with a story of a leader that has impacted your own perception of what it means to be a great leader?
00:22:14.953 --> 00:22:18.913
I'd love to, and this is probably one of the best leaders I had the privilege to work with.
00:22:19.213 --> 00:22:24.554
He was an individual who came from like a sales background, so a gregarious, extroverted kind of individual.
00:22:24.824 --> 00:22:27.953
I did like the operations and the back office stuff, and he was like the front guy.
00:22:28.273 --> 00:22:32.743
We had a really good push and pull in terms of how we wound up working together.
00:22:33.044 --> 00:22:44.203
But what really inspired me about him as a leader was he listened to and looked at key players in his team, and as Kate talked earlier, multiple layers in the organization.
00:22:44.203 --> 00:22:52.064
So he knew his people, he understood his people, he saw what was their particular strength and understood interrelationships.
00:22:52.064 --> 00:22:55.784
And then if he saw something in somebody, he would open doors.
00:22:56.278 --> 00:23:08.813
He would make introductions, he would give assignments, he would make things happen, and years after, and I owe a lot of, I think my early successes to his style when I would thank him for it later, he was almost bemused and said, what?
00:23:08.813 --> 00:23:09.893
He said, I didn't do anything.
00:23:09.893 --> 00:23:10.823
You did all the work.
00:23:11.123 --> 00:23:12.923
And I said, you opened the door.
00:23:13.272 --> 00:23:18.143
The fact that you opened the door and knew I could walk through it, even if you said there's a door, go ahead.
00:23:18.472 --> 00:23:20.303
That just, it changed everything for me.
00:23:20.303 --> 00:23:33.383
So I think his generosity in understanding who is gifted where and where that could be used next, and then creating an opportunity or at least an on-ramp, I found that to be remarkable and I'm really grateful for it.
00:23:33.768 --> 00:23:35.238
Kate, do you have any stories that come to mind?
00:23:35.567 --> 00:23:41.978
Yeah, there's one leader who very similar in some respects to the story that Carolyn just mentioned.
00:23:42.307 --> 00:23:47.577
He was the CEO of an organization that I went in to do some product consulting for a while.
00:23:47.577 --> 00:23:51.157
And what I really, he was just, he was very human, right?
00:23:51.188 --> 00:23:53.407
He was very funny, he was very personable.
00:23:53.407 --> 00:23:54.877
He was very open.
00:23:55.403 --> 00:23:57.712
He loved learning new things.
00:23:57.712 --> 00:24:12.353
He always had another book, a new book he was reading and a conversation that he wanted to have based on that, to try to figure out how he could bring this into the organization if it made sense, and if it didn't, he had great trust in the people that worked for him.
00:24:12.563 --> 00:24:16.732
And you just felt like there was this really good kinship with him.
00:24:16.732 --> 00:24:20.393
Like I almost didn't feel like he was the boss, the CEO.
00:24:20.768 --> 00:24:27.528
He was just somebody who was in your corner and wanted to help you figure out how you could be the best you could be at your job.
00:24:27.857 --> 00:24:31.337
He took risks on people that he thought were ready for them.
00:24:31.548 --> 00:24:34.667
It's always open to new ideas and new ways of thinking about things.
00:24:34.907 --> 00:24:39.317
He had no problem saying no when he needed to, that it just wasn't the right thing.
00:24:39.317 --> 00:24:43.548
And he also, his decision making was very inclusive.
00:24:44.238 --> 00:24:46.847
He liked to bring people into the conversation.
00:24:46.897 --> 00:24:50.948
He did a great job at getting perspectives from people from all throughout the organization.
00:24:51.188 --> 00:24:55.538
He had to know everybody within this large organization by name and he knew their backstory.
00:24:55.988 --> 00:25:02.448
As you can see me just going on and gushing about this guy, he was a great leader, and I don't see many like that.
00:25:03.137 --> 00:25:05.327
Do either of you have more stories you wanna share before we move on?
00:25:05.657 --> 00:25:07.488
I had a quick one I can maybe share.
00:25:07.488 --> 00:25:15.512
I had the opportunity to attend a executive club meeting last night here in Chicago and the guest speaker was Melinda French Gates.
00:25:15.692 --> 00:25:27.413
And so I'm sharing a Melinda story, but she talked about how initially in her work life she was in a culture that was aggressive and very competitive and a lot of sharp elbow throwing and felt that.
00:25:27.907 --> 00:25:31.478
Wasn't sure it suited her, but she said before she chose to be in another environment.
00:25:31.478 --> 00:25:34.837
Let me bring myself, so this goes back to the authentic self.
00:25:35.258 --> 00:25:41.248
And she had high standards, communicated that to her team and said, you'll prepare for the presentation.
00:25:41.248 --> 00:25:46.798
I will work with you to prepare, you'll give the presentation to the group that's reviewing it, and you've got my support.
00:25:46.798 --> 00:25:47.637
I've got your back.
00:25:48.117 --> 00:25:57.028
And she found over time when she was truer to herself and did more of that supportive kind of leadership, that it became a talent magnet.
00:25:57.327 --> 00:26:00.508
She was able to attract key talent from other places in the organization.
00:26:00.508 --> 00:26:04.468
They were saying, how did you ever get that guy to sign up with your part of the organization?
00:26:04.468 --> 00:26:05.278
And she said, I don't know.
00:26:05.278 --> 00:26:07.768
Maybe he just wanted to be in a place where he felt supported.
00:26:08.097 --> 00:26:15.107
I listened to that and I heard she had a 1800 person division, I think at that time, that she was leading the notion of providing support.
00:26:15.397 --> 00:26:20.228
Providing the opportunity, having the high standards holding it, but then also helping people adhere to it.
00:26:20.228 --> 00:26:23.827
I thought that was something I just admired about her style for a long time.
00:26:24.097 --> 00:26:25.028
So inspirational.
00:26:25.627 --> 00:26:28.867
A huge thanks in advance before we get to Q&A to our panelists.
00:26:28.867 --> 00:26:32.962
So Carolyn, Kate, thank you so much for making time in your days to be with us.
00:26:32.962 --> 00:26:37.282
Kate, I know that you're quite a bit ahead of us time zone wise, so we really appreciate you making the time.
00:26:37.583 --> 00:26:42.143
If you'd like to connect with Carolyn, you can connect with her directly on LinkedIn and then Kate as well.
00:26:42.143 --> 00:26:44.303
You can find her on LinkedIn or you can check out our website.
00:26:44.482 --> 00:26:48.292
There's kateleto.com, which has her coaching courses and many other resources available.
00:26:48.682 --> 00:26:52.972
Alright, and without further ado, our final section, which is going to be just questions from you folks.
00:26:53.373 --> 00:26:54.813
I'll start with a question from Galen.
00:26:55.143 --> 00:26:59.553
He says a lot of my executive leadership examples have been Caucasian male leaders.
00:26:59.883 --> 00:27:03.873
The way I saw them build their influence isn't quite viable for me as a visible minority.
00:27:04.173 --> 00:27:09.782
What are some of the strategies that minority leaders can use to play the game when the rules are different for each player?
00:27:10.423 --> 00:27:12.012
I'll offer perhaps to start.
00:27:12.012 --> 00:27:19.163
I think the it goes back to the audience that you're playing to and when you're playing to that C-suite, it is tough.
00:27:19.163 --> 00:27:20.182
It is a challenge.
00:27:20.212 --> 00:27:35.212
I had a mentor tell me at one point that if you aren't cut from that same cookie cutter mold that they are, you may have to be twice as good and you may have to work twice as hard before they believe it, not see it, but believe it, that you're able to do it sustainably.
00:27:35.623 --> 00:27:45.733
That was the reality of the situation I was in and instead of finding it really disheartening, I actually found it encouraging is at least I knew that there's potentially this breakthrough.
00:27:45.733 --> 00:27:47.134
But it was needing to be good.
00:27:47.134 --> 00:27:55.473
It was needing to do these communications and it was needing to be persistent and to determine if that's what I wanted to do, stay true to myself.
00:27:55.713 --> 00:27:56.703
There's a lot of overlap.
00:27:56.979 --> 00:28:00.519
I think, or I hope a certain amount to get and be able to deliver there.
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:01.929
There are things that are different.
00:28:02.199 --> 00:28:04.328
I have been working for many decades now.
00:28:04.328 --> 00:28:09.308
I still don't have all the edges rounded off, but at least I can feel good about what I'm doing.
00:28:09.308 --> 00:28:15.798
But I understand it is probably harder because not everybody in that audience wants to believe it is possible.
00:28:16.199 --> 00:28:17.528
This next one is from Agueda.
00:28:17.939 --> 00:28:19.499
This is about revisiting agreements.
00:28:19.499 --> 00:28:24.509
They say during the life cycles of projects, there are inflection moments where agreements need to be revisited.
00:28:24.838 --> 00:28:28.858
How do you maintain the momentum of the project while revisiting the agreement with stakeholders.
00:28:29.128 --> 00:28:37.259
They add, this could lead to a wrong outcome of a project or a missed agreement, or what happens when the revisited agreement leads to the need to create a different outcome of the project.
00:28:37.499 --> 00:28:38.818
So a bit of more of a complex question.
00:28:38.818 --> 00:28:40.048
Does anyone wanna take this one on?
00:28:40.378 --> 00:28:42.568
Things are always gonna change, right?
00:28:42.598 --> 00:28:49.498
So I think that's a foundational belief or something that we need to accept is that, the world changes a million times a day.
00:28:49.827 --> 00:28:57.327
So of course things are going to change in your long-term relationship with the stakeholder, and it's gonna be challenging and it's gonna be frustrating at times.
00:28:57.657 --> 00:29:03.028
I think one of the best things to do is to, in those initial upfront agreements that you set up.
00:29:03.563 --> 00:29:06.327
How are we gonna check in when things go off the rails a bit.
00:29:06.863 --> 00:29:24.782
And for a lot of, with a lot of my clients, larger organizations, we put in place some, a different kind of adaptive practices, make sure that you have retros with your stakeholder or with your external stakeholder, every quarter or something like that at a cadence that you feel is the right way to go.
00:29:25.023 --> 00:29:28.742
So this becomes like a natural habit, a natural way of working.
00:29:28.988 --> 00:29:35.617
You're always going to have this kind of conversation maybe once a quarter, a couple times a year, whatever it might fit for you.
00:29:36.008 --> 00:29:49.613
I think in terms of motivation, I've seen where these kind of conversations really go off the rails when we're just doing the same type of conversation every time, you're reporting certain numbers, you're checking in on certain things.
00:29:49.933 --> 00:29:57.263
There's really no opportunity to actually have some different conversations around what's working with the relationship and what's not.
00:29:57.713 --> 00:30:11.433
What kind of changes do you need to make and how you're working together, and really get into some of those more juicy or meatier things versus just checking dates, checking timelines, perhaps checking, personnel that you might have working on different projects.
00:30:11.483 --> 00:30:15.933
And one, just acknowledge the fact that you need to have these conversations.
00:30:15.933 --> 00:30:37.923
They're really important to have set up a cadence upfront that you're going to stick to and change the tone of those conversations from time to time when you can to make it more about how are we working together, what's going well, what's not going well, and what do we wanna continue to change versus perhaps a template in check-in, which I often see happen between client and stakeholder.
00:30:38.373 --> 00:30:38.798
Thank you for that.
00:30:38.883 --> 00:30:40.083
That was a great answer, Kate.
00:30:40.488 --> 00:30:46.428
I wanna move on to this question from Amelia, which I think is one that probably all of us have had to ask at one point.
00:30:46.788 --> 00:30:51.648
I feel I've lost stakeholder influence early on by making a lot of mistakes.
00:30:51.948 --> 00:30:53.928
What can I do to build my influence back up?
00:30:54.209 --> 00:30:55.048
That's a good question.
00:30:55.528 --> 00:31:06.884
Maybe some suggestions are, I find acknowledgement of what might have not been delivered the way I had intended or wanted it to be, where it's appropriate, an apology and a remedy.
00:31:07.213 --> 00:31:08.653
And so this is what we will do.
00:31:08.653 --> 00:31:16.213
And then I think the kind of re it takes time to rebuild trust and it takes time for people to believe it's different this time.
00:31:16.213 --> 00:31:23.233
So it's unfortunate, but I think it's solvable, but reestablishing what it is, how this works, being respectful of their time.
00:31:23.233 --> 00:31:28.983
But carrying forth over time, they'll remember maybe the more recent experience and they'll forget the initial experience.
00:31:28.983 --> 00:31:31.173
It just takes a while to dig outta that, that hole.
00:31:31.623 --> 00:31:31.894
Yeah.
00:31:32.013 --> 00:31:35.313
I had a client ask me this question this week.
00:31:35.373 --> 00:31:36.363
It was really interesting.
00:31:36.363 --> 00:31:44.093
Some, she's working rebuilding some relationships within her organization and I think, first off, it's just letting people know that you're working on it.
00:31:44.423 --> 00:31:46.042
Carolyn's point about acknowledging it.
00:31:46.042 --> 00:31:47.512
This is something I'm working on.
00:31:47.873 --> 00:31:50.542
Some feedback that she received, acknowledging the feedback.
00:31:50.633 --> 00:31:57.353
Tell them you're working on it, and check in with them again to see how things are going to see if they've noticed a change.
00:31:57.833 --> 00:32:03.803
That maybe is not a conversation you can have with everyone, but I think there are probably a few people within an organization that you can.
00:32:04.268 --> 00:32:06.758
I'll also say it's not comfortable, and that's okay.
00:32:07.057 --> 00:32:08.077
It's not gonna be comfortable.
00:32:08.077 --> 00:32:13.598
There's no, I don't have a silver bullet or a smooth way, but I think with the perseverance, you can turn things around.
00:32:14.138 --> 00:32:25.848
Yeah, I think that, that show of good faith is very powerful and just, leveling with people that you're aware of the concerns and that it's a signal to be attentive and invitation for further and very honest feedback.
00:32:25.848 --> 00:32:27.798
So I, yeah, I appreciate that answer as well.
00:32:28.307 --> 00:32:29.518
Our last question is from Yaron.
00:32:29.837 --> 00:32:34.867
What are some strategies that we can use to mitigate some of those challenges with regards to communication throughout the org chart?
00:32:35.377 --> 00:32:35.948
Couple of things.
00:32:35.948 --> 00:32:49.417
I think there's quantitative ways to gather feedback, and I know that's really popular and you can get numbers, but I personally find that qualitative feedback is really helpful because you can go deeper and get richer and some nuances that you might not have otherwise thought about.
00:32:49.888 --> 00:32:51.807
So offering some space for that.
00:32:51.807 --> 00:32:56.178
And this is, I don't know, it's, maybe it's my Midwestern, middle class upbringing.
00:32:56.178 --> 00:33:05.488
But if there's a way to share a meal with somebody or like host a breakfast thing or, and I find smaller groups, people are sometimes feel freer to talk in smaller groups than if they're in a big group.
00:33:05.952 --> 00:33:07.692
Somehow there's a dinnertime diplomacy.
00:33:07.692 --> 00:33:10.093
If you can talk over food, I think that helps.
00:33:10.423 --> 00:33:14.353
And then leaving that space and then do not under any circumstance, act rushed.
00:33:14.563 --> 00:33:22.633
If you allow half an hour for the conversation, don't block anything on your calendar after that because you don't wanna be like, okay, hurry up and then let me get outta here 'cause then people will withdraw.
00:33:22.932 --> 00:33:27.403
Those are some things I think that are helpful to get some depth, to understand what's on their mind.
00:33:27.403 --> 00:33:31.153
And usually it's the last two minutes where you hear what they're really thinking.
00:33:31.587 --> 00:33:36.508
The rest of it's preamble and warm up, but in the last two minutes they'll deliver the payload of information you're looking for.
00:33:36.778 --> 00:33:37.588
I love this tip.
00:33:37.948 --> 00:33:39.749
Thank you again to our panelists, Kate and Carolyn.
00:33:39.749 --> 00:33:44.669
This is wonderful to have you here and I really appreciate the gift of your insights that you shared with us today.
00:33:44.939 --> 00:33:45.479
Thank you.
00:33:48.433 --> 00:33:49.453
Thanks for listening in.
00:33:49.633 --> 00:33:55.953
For more great insights, how-to guides and tool reviews, subscribe to our newsletter at theproductmanager.com/subscribe.
00:33:56.292 --> 00:34:01.363
You can hear more conversations like this by subscribing to the Product Manager wherever you get your podcasts.