Test, Don’t Guess: Superpower’s Max Marchione on Labs, Testosterone & HRV

WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.231 --> 00:00:03.674
One of the most powerful things someone can do for their health is lab testing.
2
00:00:04.114 --> 00:00:08.437
Because the second you see what is going on, you become motivated to take action.
3
00:00:08.737 --> 00:00:13.041
You start to realize there are things going wrong that you weren't aware of.
4
00:00:13.081 --> 00:00:16.103
Max Marchione, the CEO of Superpower.
5
00:00:16.183 --> 00:00:19.268
There are all sorts of chemicals in our environment that never used to exist.
6
00:00:19.548 --> 00:00:22.032
And many of these chemicals are called endocrine disruptors.
7
00:00:22.052 --> 00:00:23.634
In other words, they disrupt our hormones.
8
00:00:23.794 --> 00:00:25.377
BPA is a classic one.
9
00:00:25.677 --> 00:00:27.379
I thought I avoided all BPA.
10
00:00:27.560 --> 00:00:30.063
And my BPA levels when I tested were in the 99th percentile.
11
00:00:30.164 --> 00:00:30.804
That's crazy.
12
00:00:31.345 --> 00:00:33.667
For a guy who works, you said 110 hours a week?
13
00:00:33.807 --> 00:00:35.329
Probably 100, yeah, sometimes 110.
14
00:00:35.509 --> 00:00:36.389
100, still a lot.
15
00:00:36.650 --> 00:00:37.690
How do you manage your stress?
16
00:00:37.711 --> 00:00:38.271
Let's start there.
17
00:00:38.671 --> 00:00:41.334
One is make sure the foundations of health are solved.
18
00:00:41.414 --> 00:00:49.060
If your metabolism is out of whack, your diet's out of whack, you're not sleeping, your hormones are out of balance, their HIV is shot, they need to solve that first.
19
00:00:49.641 --> 00:00:52.363
So you said you meditate every time you're in an elevator for 15 seconds.
20
00:00:52.623 --> 00:00:54.325
I love this idea of passive optimization.
21
00:00:54.505 --> 00:01:00.850
And the idea is we don't actually have a lot of time to all of a sudden add 20 hours of exercise a week or an hour of meditation a day.
22
00:01:00.910 --> 00:01:02.051
Most of us don't have time for that.
23
00:01:02.311 --> 00:01:06.435
How do we take the things we're already doing and turn them into moments that are more productive?
24
00:01:07.015 --> 00:01:09.397
A lot of men have very low testosterone in this country right now.
25
00:01:09.578 --> 00:01:11.059
Let's start with the basic question, which is why.
26
00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:15.244
Let's look at what men do now compared to what men did hundreds of years ago.
27
00:01:15.464 --> 00:01:17.846
Men, a thousand years ago, used to go to war.
28
00:01:18.047 --> 00:01:23.453
Used to fight, used to be out in nature, used to be touching grass, used to be hunting for food.
29
00:01:23.833 --> 00:01:26.856
Men today, wake up, watch porn.
30
00:01:27.637 --> 00:01:48.785
for guys in their early to mid to late 20s why the fuck aren't they going out and doing the thing taking the chance i think it's really hard in a culture that has been structured to not facilitate that right this is also heavily influenced by our parents so parents try to minimize downside let's get a safe job become a doctor become a lawyer become some sort of corporate professional
31
00:01:49.025 --> 00:01:50.667
It's very rare that parents are like, you know what?
32
00:01:51.268 --> 00:01:56.033
I'm willing for you to actually risk kind of failing multiple times to maybe find something that works.
33
00:01:56.414 --> 00:01:59.317
Work on something that you're passionate about or like find things that doesn't feel like worked.
34
00:01:59.838 --> 00:02:00.659
Yeah, of course.
35
00:02:00.739 --> 00:02:01.660
That's what we all want.
36
00:02:02.180 --> 00:02:02.941
Where do you start?
37
00:02:03.402 --> 00:02:03.862
One is...
38
00:02:11.584 --> 00:02:17.525
What do I need to understand about who you are as a teenager to understand who you are today as the CEO of Superpower?
39
00:02:17.825 --> 00:02:19.086
Oh, this is such a good question.
40
00:02:19.646 --> 00:02:21.926
So, probably three things.
41
00:02:22.606 --> 00:02:26.127
One is always rule-breaking and pushing the needle.
42
00:02:26.267 --> 00:02:28.067
I have always hated arbitrary rules.
43
00:02:28.447 --> 00:02:34.969
My general view of rules is that sometimes they're useful because they drive a certain outcome.
44
00:02:34.989 --> 00:02:36.369
A lot of the time they're kind of arbitrary.
45
00:02:36.909 --> 00:02:39.150
So I would not listen to half of my teachers.
46
00:02:39.170 --> 00:02:40.890
I put headphones on and just did my own work.
47
00:02:40.930 --> 00:02:42.090
I would sneak out of class.
48
00:02:42.510 --> 00:02:44.731
And the reason I did this wasn't to not study.
49
00:02:44.771 --> 00:02:47.071
It was because I thought there were more effective ways of studying.
50
00:02:48.112 --> 00:02:53.753
The second thing that comes to mind is always being entrepreneurial and like trying new things.
51
00:02:53.973 --> 00:02:59.994
I started probably five to ten businesses between the age of, call it five and 15.
52
00:03:00.475 --> 00:03:03.095
And then maybe the third thing is grappling with health challenges.
53
00:03:04.515 --> 00:03:06.476
I would take three hours to get to sleep every night.
54
00:03:07.196 --> 00:03:09.858
I would fall asleep through a third of my high school classes.
55
00:03:10.399 --> 00:03:14.342
I used to sprint competitively and I'd be asleep 20 minutes before a race.
56
00:03:15.063 --> 00:03:26.712
And when you have health challenges and can't sleep and see doctors and have surgeries and get told to medicate for life, you start to become curious about what's going on and very frustrated that the system isn't doing much about it.
57
00:03:27.352 --> 00:03:29.374
How old were you when you were dealing with the health issues?
58
00:03:30.062 --> 00:03:32.143
Uh, basically 10 to around 18.
59
00:03:32.163 --> 00:03:32.503
Okay.
60
00:03:32.903 --> 00:03:33.764
And you're 25 now.
61
00:03:34.064 --> 00:03:34.304
Oh yeah.
62
00:03:34.324 --> 00:03:35.745
By the way, you've come a really long way.
63
00:03:35.905 --> 00:03:36.565
Oh man.
64
00:03:36.625 --> 00:03:37.545
I feel way too old.
65
00:03:37.726 --> 00:03:38.766
Don't rub it in.
66
00:03:39.286 --> 00:03:40.567
So how's your skincare routine?
67
00:03:41.287 --> 00:03:42.328
Uh, it's really funny.
68
00:03:42.368 --> 00:03:46.429
Like I had never thought about skin or skin health until maybe a year ago.
69
00:03:46.449 --> 00:03:46.870
Okay.
70
00:03:47.090 --> 00:03:50.371
Because I think until you're maybe 23, 24, you don't notice anything.
71
00:03:50.491 --> 00:03:51.452
No wrinkles, nothing.
72
00:03:51.592 --> 00:03:51.772
Yeah.
73
00:03:51.952 --> 00:03:53.873
And now I'm like, fuck, I'm starting to look old.
74
00:03:54.053 --> 00:03:54.273
Sure.
75
00:03:54.413 --> 00:03:58.555
And the world's probably telling you like, if you don't start this now in 10 years, you're going to regret it.
76
00:03:59.175 --> 00:04:00.556
There's a version of that.
77
00:04:00.616 --> 00:04:04.678
There was this article published by the SF standard that called me baby faced.
78
00:04:05.278 --> 00:04:07.280
And all the comments were saying, what do you mean?
79
00:04:07.320 --> 00:04:08.980
He looks 35 years old.
80
00:04:09.020 --> 00:04:10.221
He's like, Oh, shit.
81
00:04:10.241 --> 00:04:11.222
Did you mean baby face?
82
00:04:11.242 --> 00:04:13.003
Or were you like, flattered by that?
83
00:04:13.763 --> 00:04:14.784
I was like, I don't know.
84
00:04:14.824 --> 00:04:16.745
I think this is the irony, right?
85
00:04:16.765 --> 00:04:19.106
Like when I was baby face, I was like, no, what do you mean?
86
00:04:19.146 --> 00:04:19.686
I look old.
87
00:04:20.046 --> 00:04:22.308
And when people told me I look old, I'm like, what do you mean?
88
00:04:22.348 --> 00:04:23.108
I don't look old.
89
00:04:23.148 --> 00:04:26.890
So I don't know, man, man, man, man, man, maybe just never happy.
90
00:04:27.130 --> 00:04:34.019
So the story that I've always latched onto with you is from 10 to 18 years old, you dealt with a bunch of health issues and you cured them yourself.
91
00:04:34.960 --> 00:04:36.602
Then you went to med school.
92
00:04:36.622 --> 00:04:37.042
Is that right?
93
00:04:37.543 --> 00:04:38.344
I never went to medical school.
94
00:04:38.364 --> 00:04:39.005
You can go to med school.
95
00:04:39.245 --> 00:04:39.485
No.
96
00:04:39.726 --> 00:04:43.470
But this is like you're a child and you're figuring out what the heck is wrong with me.
97
00:04:44.533 --> 00:04:45.774
Where did you even start with that?
98
00:04:46.194 --> 00:04:47.055
Yeah.
99
00:04:47.075 --> 00:04:50.097
Sadly, I didn't have chat GBT because that would have solved things.
100
00:04:50.157 --> 00:04:52.678
Or superpower, which would have solved things even more effectively.
101
00:04:53.138 --> 00:04:57.161
I started by trying to read everything I could and test everything I could.
102
00:04:57.641 --> 00:05:02.064
I remember haggling doctors to let me test my gut, the gut microbiome.
103
00:05:02.084 --> 00:05:04.045
And most of them said the gut microbiome is not a real thing.
104
00:05:04.065 --> 00:05:06.487
How do you even know at that age that that's a test you should run?
105
00:05:06.807 --> 00:05:12.913
I was just reading online, reading forums, reading research papers, trying to, reading textbooks.
106
00:05:14.135 --> 00:05:15.676
I remember getting a Gen 1 Aura ring.
107
00:05:15.736 --> 00:05:17.298
It was this big fat device at the time.
108
00:05:17.939 --> 00:05:19.380
I remember buying a CGM.
109
00:05:19.741 --> 00:05:22.804
I wasn't able to procure one because there weren't companies like Levels out there.
110
00:05:23.244 --> 00:05:25.467
And I had to convince the pharmacist to give me one illegally.
111
00:05:25.607 --> 00:05:25.887
I was like,
112
00:05:26.227 --> 00:05:27.448
look, I just want to test it.
113
00:05:27.808 --> 00:05:29.308
And he gave me, he didn't even charge me.
114
00:05:30.509 --> 00:05:31.149
Great, great guy.
115
00:05:31.509 --> 00:05:32.729
And I would do this with everything.
116
00:05:32.749 --> 00:05:35.790
I remember a similar story trying to get the doctor to let me test mercury.
117
00:05:36.411 --> 00:05:38.751
All the doctors like, no, you don't need to test mercury.
118
00:05:39.211 --> 00:05:42.353
I got my test results back when I was in the 99th percentile, right?
119
00:05:42.373 --> 00:05:51.436
So it was this journey of reading things, having hypotheses, haggling doctors to let me test things and being frustrated when they often said
120
00:05:55.617 --> 00:05:56.938
kind of in antagonism to that.
121
00:05:56.958 --> 00:06:00.220
We say, let's actually give consumers power to make choices.
122
00:06:00.260 --> 00:06:03.143
Let's not assume that consumers need to be mollycoddled.
123
00:06:03.543 --> 00:06:06.165
Instead, here's information and here's the ability to take action.
124
00:06:07.366 --> 00:06:07.646
Okay.
125
00:06:08.046 --> 00:06:13.970
So I'd love to dig into a lot of today's conversation around stress, anxiety, all that stuff.
126
00:06:14.891 --> 00:06:21.276
I know you guys are moving in a direction of working with companies, helping them provide benefits to their employees.
127
00:06:22.156 --> 00:06:22.817
You work a lot.
128
00:06:24.128 --> 00:06:27.711
You grew up struggling with health, figured it out.
129
00:06:28.232 --> 00:06:29.293
How do you manage your stress?
130
00:06:29.313 --> 00:06:29.873
Let's start there.
131
00:06:30.794 --> 00:06:33.876
One is make sure the foundations of health are solved, right?
132
00:06:34.017 --> 00:06:45.987
If you do not have the foundations in place, if your metabolism is out of whack, your diet's out of whack, you're not sleeping, your hormones are out of balance, no matter what you do to manage stress, it's going to be really hard.
133
00:06:46.647 --> 00:06:53.531
I see a lot of people who have anxiety or are depressed and the modern world says, meditate or take this medication.
134
00:06:54.051 --> 00:06:56.973
I think often the more accurate answer is fix your gut health.
135
00:06:57.153 --> 00:07:03.417
The number of people I've seen fix their gut who end up fixing what's going on in their brain is crazy.
136
00:07:03.437 --> 00:07:05.438
So the first thing is solve for the foundations of health.
137
00:07:06.538 --> 00:07:12.582
The second thing is work on something that is actually meaningful and authentic to you and brings you energy.
138
00:07:13.807 --> 00:07:16.870
For me, I work 110 hour weeks, but it doesn't feel like work.
139
00:07:17.530 --> 00:07:25.276
I wake up and I'm so excited to get to the office and spend time with the team and work on interesting and fun problems and push health forward and push technology forward.
140
00:07:26.276 --> 00:07:28.718
And then probably the third thing is...
141
00:07:30.059 --> 00:07:33.540
knowing that the world is going to have so many exogenous stresses, right?
142
00:07:34.181 --> 00:07:37.642
Seeing what are the small things I can do to drive an outsized result?
143
00:07:37.742 --> 00:07:40.223
Unfortunately, I don't have time to just like take a week off.
144
00:07:40.603 --> 00:07:42.623
I don't have time to like meditate for an hour each day.
145
00:07:42.664 --> 00:07:44.564
So those things aren't really options.
146
00:07:45.004 --> 00:07:46.345
But I ask what are the small things I can do?
147
00:07:47.045 --> 00:07:51.228
And the small things for me look like every time I go up and down an elevator, I meditate for 15 seconds.
148
00:07:51.829 --> 00:07:53.890
Small, but I'm going to go up and down that elevator anyway.
149
00:07:53.930 --> 00:07:55.551
Let's use that moment for something useful.
150
00:07:56.252 --> 00:07:57.993
A small thing is supplementing, right?
151
00:07:58.113 --> 00:08:02.296
L-theanine, magnesium, pharmacobinite, reduces stress.
152
00:08:02.977 --> 00:08:09.541
Another small thing is when I'm in meetings, just trying to breathe five and a half seconds in, five and a half seconds out.
153
00:08:09.581 --> 00:08:14.525
That's the breathing frequency that maxes heart rate variability and it calms the nervous system.
154
00:08:14.885 --> 00:08:17.227
So what are the small things I can do to reduce stress?
155
00:08:17.367 --> 00:08:17.507
Yeah.
156
00:08:17.848 --> 00:08:26.835
For the everyday guy who lives in the United States, he hears something like, oh, yeah, just work on something that you're passionate about or find things that doesn't feel like worked.
157
00:08:27.696 --> 00:08:29.498
Yeah, of course, that's what we all want.
158
00:08:29.858 --> 00:08:33.601
You know, works nine to five, maybe he's blue collar, whatever it might be.
159
00:08:34.657 --> 00:08:35.397
Where do you start?
160
00:08:35.938 --> 00:08:38.519
Like, how would you make it so damn simple for this guy to understand?
161
00:08:38.539 --> 00:08:39.520
Like, where do you start here?
162
00:08:40.221 --> 00:08:41.321
Yeah, I think two things.
163
00:08:41.922 --> 00:08:44.503
One is information, right?
164
00:08:44.563 --> 00:08:48.366
Spend time on the internet, spend time reading, spend time on YouTube.
165
00:08:48.686 --> 00:08:52.168
Try to understand what are the set of options out there, right?
166
00:08:52.208 --> 00:08:53.509
Information is education.
167
00:08:53.829 --> 00:08:56.291
When you have information, you can understand the set of options.
168
00:08:56.311 --> 00:08:58.332
When you know the set of options, you can take better action.
169
00:08:58.492 --> 00:09:00.153
So that's number one, get information.
170
00:09:01.034 --> 00:09:02.695
Number two is just explore different things.
171
00:09:03.515 --> 00:09:31.562
right uh i love this idea of explore before you exploit try everything taste test everything try to observe your nature just kind of number two and then maybe number three is observe who you are and who you have been for a lot of your life what are the things you like doing on the weekend what are the rabbit holes did you go down what did you do as a little kid what did you want to be as a little kid what are the kinds of things if you look at your calendar over the past year what are the moments where you found energy and i think those three things get information
172
00:09:32.302 --> 00:09:38.359
explore lots of things and observe who you are, allow you to get towards this work that feels like play idea.
173
00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:38.640
Sure.
174
00:09:38.761 --> 00:09:40.465
And I'd love to really dig into the,
175
00:09:41.938 --> 00:09:54.387
the reality of the situation, which is going out and getting tests, figuring out what's going on with you, even like being able to diagnose something that you may not even know that's going on in the first place is so hard, especially in the U.S. right now.
176
00:09:54.848 --> 00:09:57.450
Obviously, enter superpower by making it easier.
177
00:09:57.490 --> 00:10:06.817
But in general, what do you want someone to understand about what they think their options are versus what their options really are?
178
00:10:08.387 --> 00:10:10.269
Yeah, in terms of career, in terms of health.
179
00:10:10.429 --> 00:10:10.650
Health.
180
00:10:11.110 --> 00:10:11.811
Health, okay.
181
00:10:12.371 --> 00:10:17.177
So one of the most powerful things someone can do for their health is lab testing.
182
00:10:17.617 --> 00:10:21.942
Because the second you see what is going on, you become motivated to take action.
183
00:10:22.923 --> 00:10:26.346
The other reason that's really powerful is you start to...
184
00:10:27.127 --> 00:10:30.648
realize there are things going wrong that you weren't aware of, right?
185
00:10:31.128 --> 00:10:34.088
Maybe you're not feeling, are you feeling a little bit tired?
186
00:10:34.608 --> 00:10:36.269
That often shows up in your blood biomarkers.
187
00:10:36.789 --> 00:10:39.289
Maybe you're putting on weight, often shows up in your blood biomarkers.
188
00:10:39.729 --> 00:10:42.390
Maybe feeling a little bit depressed or down, shows up in your blood biomarkers.
189
00:10:42.410 --> 00:10:51.231
What are the super common things that are showing up in people's blood biomarkers today that are just like, oh, it's just like where we're at in America, but they're actually a problem?
190
00:10:51.531 --> 00:10:52.371
What are you seeing a lot?
191
00:10:52.771 --> 00:10:55.312
Over 90% of our members are vitamin D deficient.
192
00:10:55.612 --> 00:10:55.812
Why?
193
00:10:55.832 --> 00:10:55.912
Why?
194
00:10:57.173 --> 00:11:03.237
Uh, the modern lifestyle is indoors all day behind laptops, right?
195
00:11:03.738 --> 00:11:09.562
The modern diet is very vitamin D depleted, uh, compared to our ancestors who are out in nature.
196
00:11:10.923 --> 00:11:13.685
The second thing we see a lot of is...
197
00:11:14.926 --> 00:11:19.889
A high lipid burden, so high APOB and LP little A.
198
00:11:20.189 --> 00:11:24.632
These are two biomarkers that are way better than cholesterol to give you a sense of your risk of heart disease.
199
00:11:25.173 --> 00:11:29.535
Heart disease is the number one killer in the US and I would contend no one should die of heart disease.
200
00:11:30.015 --> 00:11:32.697
We can genuinely take steps early to prevent it.
201
00:11:33.458 --> 00:11:37.060
The third thing we see a lot of is around a quarter of our members are pre-diabetic.
202
00:11:38.125 --> 00:11:39.946
And honestly, that makes a lot of sense.
203
00:11:40.326 --> 00:11:41.827
They know it, they're coming to you.
204
00:11:42.267 --> 00:11:45.929
And something like 80% don't, probably 80 to 90% do not know it.
205
00:11:46.709 --> 00:11:49.390
Because there are no symptoms or they just never went to go figure it out?
206
00:11:49.971 --> 00:11:55.953
They just don't realize that even if they seem healthy and exercise, they could be pre-diabetic.
207
00:11:56.013 --> 00:11:57.094
I was pre-diabetic, right?
208
00:11:57.214 --> 00:11:59.435
I exercised often, I ate healthily.
209
00:11:59.895 --> 00:12:03.317
But the modern lifestyle is really, really hard metabolically.
210
00:12:04.037 --> 00:12:06.198
And they might have symptoms, but they're not aware of those symptoms.
211
00:12:06.218 --> 00:12:08.660
They might say, oh, at 2 p.m., I get really tired.
212
00:12:09.200 --> 00:12:11.661
I eat a meal and I feel fatigued afterwards.
213
00:12:12.001 --> 00:12:12.622
That shouldn't happen.
214
00:12:12.642 --> 00:12:14.242
If you're metabolically healthy, that doesn't happen.
215
00:12:14.783 --> 00:12:18.205
If you're metabolically unhealthy, which is a lot of people, 88% of Americans are metabolically unhealthy.
216
00:12:18.225 --> 00:12:20.466
If you're metabolically unhealthy, then you're metabolically unhealthy.
217
00:12:21.206 --> 00:12:23.089
Then you eat a big meal and you feel kind of dead after.
218
00:12:23.109 --> 00:12:26.393
At what point is it too big of a battle for you?
219
00:12:27.996 --> 00:12:28.236
Never.
220
00:12:28.917 --> 00:12:32.962
Right, like we're here because the health system is not working.
221
00:12:34.144 --> 00:12:36.968
And until that is fixed, someone has to solve that problem.
222
00:12:37.128 --> 00:12:38.929
Do you think this would have went to like three, four years ago?
223
00:12:39.669 --> 00:12:41.651
Yes, but not to the same extent it does today.
224
00:12:42.031 --> 00:12:46.073
I think we're at a real turning point in terms of health, consumer health fervor.
225
00:12:46.994 --> 00:12:52.657
If I look three years ago, if I look six, seven years ago, people laughed at me for wearing an aura ring.
226
00:12:53.337 --> 00:13:01.262
If I look three years ago, people laughed at me for like taking my mouth to sleep at night and to nose breathe.
227
00:13:02.162 --> 00:13:06.185
I was in Australia around three months ago is where I'm from, and I was sitting in a cafe.
228
00:13:06.978 --> 00:13:12.622
And then the table next to me, there were three girls, probably in their 20s, and they were talking about their biomarkers.
229
00:13:12.682 --> 00:13:15.725
They were talking about their progesterone levels and their estrogen levels.
230
00:13:16.746 --> 00:13:17.986
That is where the world is at now.
231
00:13:18.047 --> 00:13:20.348
That would not have even happened a year and a half ago.
232
00:13:20.789 --> 00:13:29.856
So I do think we're at a turning point in terms of timing, but I also think that it's encumbered on founders and individuals to create that turning point as well.
233
00:13:29.976 --> 00:13:30.156
Yeah.
234
00:13:30.696 --> 00:13:36.882
I mean, a couple of years back, you know, like I've been in venture since I was 18 and startup world since about the same time.
235
00:13:38.003 --> 00:13:40.906
And it's always just been the topic of like, oh, health is just too hard.
236
00:13:41.386 --> 00:13:43.709
It's too hard to do something easier, lower hanging fruit.
237
00:13:43.749 --> 00:13:47.092
And now it's like, is it that hard anymore?
238
00:13:47.492 --> 00:13:50.455
It's still really hard, but it's not as impossible as it used to be.
239
00:13:51.856 --> 00:13:55.160
Were you receiving similar messages and you're just getting going?
240
00:13:56.352 --> 00:13:56.672
Oh yeah.
241
00:13:57.112 --> 00:14:00.313
Um, I remember when I moved to the U S I was 22 at the time.
242
00:14:01.193 --> 00:14:01.793
I was naive.
243
00:14:01.813 --> 00:14:02.994
I didn't really know what I was doing.
244
00:14:03.014 --> 00:14:13.036
And I used to say to people, I want to start a new healthcare system and I want this new healthcare system to actually prevent disease and largely be driven via AI.
245
00:14:13.396 --> 00:14:15.236
And what kind of responses would you get?
246
00:14:15.316 --> 00:14:19.357
And the fact that you threw the word AI in there in 23 years ago, this was pre LLMs.
247
00:14:19.677 --> 00:14:22.318
I was hardcore of the view that AI would replace doctors and
248
00:14:22.958 --> 00:14:26.401
Everyone I said this to was like, no, this is never going to happen.
249
00:14:26.421 --> 00:14:28.003
What about the human touch in medicine?
250
00:14:28.023 --> 00:14:29.925
Technology is not that good.
251
00:14:29.965 --> 00:14:30.886
What about the risks?
252
00:14:31.246 --> 00:14:33.188
It's too hard to build a new healthcare system.
253
00:14:33.208 --> 00:14:34.089
This is naive.
254
00:14:34.469 --> 00:14:35.290
How do you start?
255
00:14:35.750 --> 00:14:37.051
There were so many naysayers.
256
00:14:37.071 --> 00:14:39.654
And that was really hard because I think I internalized some of that.
257
00:14:40.014 --> 00:14:43.858
I didn't internalize it to the extent that I can't do something, but I internalized it to the extent of...
258
00:14:44.438 --> 00:14:45.659
I can't do something that ambitious.
259
00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:51.184
And I think I started looking at, oh, how do I find some sort of like business model arbitrage?
260
00:14:51.224 --> 00:14:54.506
Or how do I look at the history of what has worked and like map what I'm doing to that?
261
00:14:55.327 --> 00:14:57.148
And that was the wrong decision, right?
262
00:14:57.789 --> 00:15:03.414
A year later, when starting the company, I'd come full circle and back to where I started, which was, you know what?
263
00:15:03.874 --> 00:15:06.956
We can build a new healthcare system or at least one in front of the existing one.
264
00:15:07.477 --> 00:15:08.398
We can prevent things.
265
00:15:08.618 --> 00:15:09.999
People do care about prevention.
266
00:15:10.019 --> 00:15:11.480
People do care about optimization.
267
00:15:12.241 --> 00:15:13.061
And we can use AI.
268
00:15:14.062 --> 00:15:23.408
I think when any founder would probably understand this situation, certainly been there myself, whereas you start something, it's growing.
269
00:15:24.049 --> 00:15:32.114
And then you get to a point where you're like, all right, it's at a certain scale now where there's real impact, there's real consequences, there's real money, there's just realness to it.
270
00:15:32.654 --> 00:15:42.840
And now you have to start making either little pivots or little decisions or some of those big decisions that could go against what you initially set out to do in small ways or big ways.
271
00:15:43.761 --> 00:15:46.231
Have you dealt with anything like that before with Superpower?
272
00:15:46.291 --> 00:15:47.676
And if so, what?
273
00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:49.303
Two moments come to mind.
274
00:15:50.826 --> 00:15:54.149
One was in the early days, we tried doing everything, right?
275
00:15:54.169 --> 00:15:59.072
We started with this view of let's start by charging $10,000 per member per year.
276
00:15:59.232 --> 00:16:00.173
That was the price.
277
00:16:00.193 --> 00:16:00.973
That was the price.
278
00:16:00.993 --> 00:16:01.554
$10,000 a year.
279
00:16:02.014 --> 00:16:03.315
Now we're $200 a year.
280
00:16:03.335 --> 00:16:03.835
$200 a year.
281
00:16:03.875 --> 00:16:05.256
What's the percentage decrease on that?
282
00:16:05.817 --> 00:16:06.577
Oh, it's big.
283
00:16:06.878 --> 00:16:08.178
Yeah, it's very big.
284
00:16:08.319 --> 00:16:09.359
Okay.
285
00:16:09.920 --> 00:16:13.122
And I contend that what we do today is better than what we did for $10,000.
286
00:16:13.142 --> 00:16:16.925
But when we were building the $10,000 product, we said we have to do everything.
287
00:16:16.945 --> 00:16:17.325
Okay.
288
00:16:17.968 --> 00:16:22.889
And it was really, really hard to do everything when we were just getting started.
289
00:16:23.689 --> 00:16:29.270
And there was this point, maybe a year into the company where we're like, you know what, let's cut 90% of what we're doing.
290
00:16:29.630 --> 00:16:31.431
And we massively scoped back.
291
00:16:32.111 --> 00:16:33.791
And that was a tough decision to make.
292
00:16:34.011 --> 00:16:36.691
It's hard to kill something that you've spent a year working on.
293
00:16:37.132 --> 00:16:44.413
But it was a really, really important decision because then we could focus on doing the first things right, nail them, and then move to the incremental.
294
00:16:44.433 --> 00:16:44.713
Yeah.
295
00:16:45.073 --> 00:16:51.062
The second big moment for us was reducing our price from, call it $500 to $199.
296
00:16:51.082 --> 00:16:54.407
And that was a big bet, right?
297
00:16:54.427 --> 00:16:59.294
But the fundamental belief here is that what we set out to do is create a membership the majority of Americans own.
298
00:16:59.935 --> 00:17:03.838
And the membership price that the majority of people own is like Amazon Prime, $200.
299
00:17:03.938 --> 00:17:04.899
Netflix, $200.
300
00:17:04.939 --> 00:17:06.020
Spotify, $200.
301
00:17:06.460 --> 00:17:09.923
And we said, well, surely there has to be some membership for health.
302
00:17:10.424 --> 00:17:11.184
What is that for health?
303
00:17:11.204 --> 00:17:14.507
And we said, well, let's start by saying it's $200.
304
00:17:14.567 --> 00:17:15.468
$17 a month, right?
305
00:17:15.688 --> 00:17:17.710
That feels like the price someone would pay for a membership.
306
00:17:18.290 --> 00:17:25.896
And the reason it was a really powerful decision for us is the second we fixed today the constraint we would have in the limit...
307
00:17:26.577 --> 00:17:29.139
We were forced to make decisions with that constraint in place.
308
00:17:29.579 --> 00:17:30.680
We were forced to hold up.
309
00:17:30.840 --> 00:17:32.202
We can't have humans in the loop anymore.
310
00:17:32.222 --> 00:17:34.503
We need to build technology and add AI.
311
00:17:34.543 --> 00:17:35.664
We can't do this thing we're doing.
312
00:17:35.704 --> 00:17:37.306
We need to do it slightly differently.
313
00:17:37.326 --> 00:17:38.947
We need to automate all of these processes.
314
00:17:40.108 --> 00:17:41.589
So that was a really big decision for us.
315
00:17:41.749 --> 00:17:44.111
Risky, because we risked our revenue going backwards, right?
316
00:17:44.411 --> 00:17:47.914
We risked no longer having the contribution margin to pay back CAC.
317
00:17:48.074 --> 00:17:50.536
But in retrospect, one of the best decisions we made.
318
00:17:51.477 --> 00:17:52.778
You clearly have balls of steel.
319
00:17:52.798 --> 00:17:54.639
I'm going to hit you with a weird one, which is...
320
00:17:55.815 --> 00:18:05.614
When I ask you this question, what initially comes to mind, which is, what moments in your life, in the moment, made you question PF Balls of Steel for yourself?
321
00:18:06.605 --> 00:18:08.266
I don't know if I have balls of steel.
322
00:18:08.707 --> 00:18:11.148
I think I just assess risk differently to other people.
323
00:18:11.769 --> 00:18:13.510
I actually don't think I take much risk.
324
00:18:13.590 --> 00:18:15.672
I just think most people are not good at pricing risk.
325
00:18:16.132 --> 00:18:18.094
And I think I'm slightly better at pricing risk.
326
00:18:19.595 --> 00:18:20.055
I don't know.
327
00:18:20.095 --> 00:18:23.338
I think it's like, assume this goes to the worst case situation.
328
00:18:23.378 --> 00:18:24.438
How bad can it actually be?
329
00:18:25.179 --> 00:18:26.020
It's often not that bad.
330
00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:45.702
um i think it's also if you actually extend the time axis and we assume we've got multiple shots on goal is it actually that risky so i think that's part of it that said we double down for a second yeah what did what did you have to lose i don't think of it that way like the the worst case is that i would run out of money
331
00:18:46.565 --> 00:18:48.987
I'd go get a job or I'd find a way to make money.
332
00:18:49.588 --> 00:18:51.309
And then I'd try to start the same company again.
333
00:18:51.769 --> 00:18:52.730
That's the worst case, right?
334
00:18:52.750 --> 00:19:07.723
When you look around at the world and, you know, especially for guys in their early to mid to late 20s, maybe even in their early 30s, why the fuck aren't they going out and doing the thing, taking the chance and like looking at it that way?
335
00:19:08.283 --> 00:19:12.949
I think it's really hard in a culture that has been structured to not facilitate that, right?
336
00:19:13.489 --> 00:19:15.372
Like the culture we grow up in is you go to high school.
337
00:19:15.953 --> 00:19:17.715
High school is about preparing for university.
338
00:19:18.355 --> 00:19:21.359
University slash college is about preparing you to get a professional job.
339
00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.603
That is the socialization and the culture we have around us.
340
00:19:25.244 --> 00:19:27.246
This is also heavily influenced by our parents.
341
00:19:27.887 --> 00:19:33.852
Often our parents are not thinking how to maximize upside, they're thinking how to minimize downside.
342
00:19:34.432 --> 00:19:36.133
And this is very biologically primitive.
343
00:19:36.454 --> 00:19:42.458
When parents had children back in ancestral times, we would think about how can this child not be eaten by the lion?
344
00:19:43.399 --> 00:19:45.520
So parents try to minimize downside.
345
00:19:45.540 --> 00:19:56.409
And the minimize downside socialization that the parents introduce them to their child is let's get a safe job, become a doctor, become a lawyer, become some sort of corporate professional.
346
00:19:57.038 --> 00:20:04.105
It's very rare that parents are like, you know what, I'm willing for you to actually risk kind of failing multiple times to maybe find something that works.
347
00:20:04.526 --> 00:20:07.188
So we have a societal pressure with the education system.
348
00:20:07.649 --> 00:20:11.272
We have a nurture pressure in terms of how we're brought up.
349
00:20:11.833 --> 00:20:12.253
And then we have
350
00:20:12.974 --> 00:20:16.555
an extra extra cultural pressure that comes from not wanting to be a failure.
351
00:20:16.575 --> 00:20:17.295
Right.
352
00:20:17.315 --> 00:20:19.176
Everyone loves to laugh at you if you fail.
353
00:20:19.596 --> 00:20:19.876
Right.
354
00:20:19.896 --> 00:20:23.457
Like, I'm sure if we failed, everyone would love this.
355
00:20:23.477 --> 00:20:25.198
It'd be a portion of the population.
356
00:20:25.238 --> 00:20:26.018
Yeah, they failed.
357
00:20:26.098 --> 00:20:27.499
I told them this wasn't going to work.
358
00:20:27.979 --> 00:20:29.159
And that's the society we're in.
359
00:20:29.419 --> 00:20:30.459
We don't celebrate failure.
360
00:20:30.820 --> 00:20:35.821
I think when someone fails, I remember when forward health failed, everyone was like, yeah, I knew that was going to fail from the start.
361
00:20:36.281 --> 00:20:38.862
My response was, thank God they tried.
362
00:20:39.422 --> 00:20:39.602
Right.
363
00:20:39.622 --> 00:20:41.363
We need more people trying and it's fine.
364
00:20:41.383 --> 00:20:41.843
They failed.
365
00:20:41.983 --> 00:20:43.905
Like they took on the right level of risk.
366
00:20:43.925 --> 00:20:45.066
They tried to change the world.
367
00:20:45.427 --> 00:20:47.308
It didn't work this time and now they can do it again.
368
00:20:47.328 --> 00:20:49.931
So what were your parents like?
369
00:20:50.412 --> 00:20:53.275
They got this 11 year old kid who's trying to figure out his own health stuff.
370
00:20:54.556 --> 00:20:55.897
How did they frame everything for you?
371
00:20:56.578 --> 00:21:00.682
They always gave me a lot of leeway to explore what I was interested in.
372
00:21:01.783 --> 00:21:28.617
they were hands off at the level of just like letting me be me and then hands on with the small things that mattered such as being strict around in particular who my friends were and they uh always exposed me i remember when i was younger we would have friends over for dinner and my brother and i were always invited my family had friends over dinner my brother and i as little kids were invited to the dinner table older younger brother uh younger brother they're the oldest uh
373
00:21:30.558 --> 00:21:34.864
Yeah, any family conversation, my brother and I were involved into we felt complicit in decision making.
374
00:21:34.944 --> 00:21:39.851
So we were empowered to actually entertain ideas bigger than what children were typically exposed to.
375
00:21:39.871 --> 00:21:41.072
And I think that was really powerful.
376
00:21:41.493 --> 00:21:42.995
We were doing family dinner regularly.
377
00:21:43.530 --> 00:21:43.930
Every night.
378
00:21:43.950 --> 00:21:44.550
Yeah, really.
379
00:21:44.770 --> 00:21:45.671
Yeah, that's lucky.
380
00:21:45.851 --> 00:21:46.371
That's special.
381
00:21:46.631 --> 00:21:47.291
Yeah, it is.
382
00:21:47.651 --> 00:21:47.932
Yeah.
383
00:21:48.652 --> 00:21:49.972
So you're at these dinner tables.
384
00:21:50.732 --> 00:21:53.733
What were some of the questions and conversations that would come up from from your parents?
385
00:21:54.414 --> 00:21:56.494
We would all just debate things, right?
386
00:21:56.854 --> 00:22:01.676
I don't think it was them intentionally sparking, bringing up a certain topic.
387
00:22:01.696 --> 00:22:04.277
I think it was more that they would have the conversation they would have with each other.
388
00:22:04.917 --> 00:22:06.237
And then my brother and I would be involved.
389
00:22:06.357 --> 00:22:07.138
Anything inappropriate?
390
00:22:08.098 --> 00:22:09.918
Why are we having this conversation with us here?
391
00:22:10.158 --> 00:22:11.439
No, no, no, not really.
392
00:22:11.499 --> 00:22:12.079
Yeah.
393
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:13.099
Uh, no.
394
00:22:13.739 --> 00:22:18.941
And I think the other thing is that debate was normal in my household.
395
00:22:19.161 --> 00:22:22.862
Like we could spend an hour just like yelling at each other and debating ideas.
396
00:22:22.882 --> 00:22:23.362
And that was fine.
397
00:22:23.802 --> 00:22:27.645
And I think that's really important because it means that you don't develop a fear of conflict.
398
00:22:28.026 --> 00:22:29.147
Conflict is just normal.
399
00:22:29.867 --> 00:22:32.430
And you develop an obsession with trying to get to the truth.
400
00:22:33.030 --> 00:22:36.133
And you develop an ability to articulate your reasoning and your points.
401
00:22:36.193 --> 00:22:37.994
I think all of those things are important.
402
00:22:38.755 --> 00:22:41.337
I'd like to do a wild shift of gears if you're open to it.
403
00:22:41.397 --> 00:22:41.737
Let's do it.
404
00:22:41.757 --> 00:22:43.199
And I want to talk to you about testosterone.
405
00:22:43.339 --> 00:22:43.619
Okay.
406
00:22:44.560 --> 00:22:49.144
It's no secret that a lot of men have very low testosterone in this country right now.
407
00:22:50.004 --> 00:22:51.466
Let's start with the basic question, which is why?
408
00:22:51.486 --> 00:22:51.566
Why?
409
00:22:53.547 --> 00:22:57.928
Let's look at what men do now compared to what men did hundreds of years ago.
410
00:22:58.648 --> 00:23:03.389
I'm fascinated that you're going straight to what we do versus like what we consume or something.
411
00:23:03.769 --> 00:23:04.029
Yeah.
412
00:23:04.109 --> 00:23:07.050
Well, I think this is actually a really interesting way to start, right?
413
00:23:07.410 --> 00:23:12.431
Because I think a surprising amount of testosterone is not just an exogenous chemical.
414
00:23:12.731 --> 00:23:16.332
It actually is in, is part of the fundamental nature of what we do.
415
00:23:17.612 --> 00:23:20.034
Men a thousand years ago used to go to war.
416
00:23:20.695 --> 00:23:26.099
Used to fight, used to be out in nature, used to be touching grass, used to be hunting for food.
417
00:23:26.659 --> 00:23:29.682
Men today, wake up, watch porn.
418
00:23:29.922 --> 00:23:30.142
Yeah.
419
00:23:30.883 --> 00:23:31.743
Sit behind the desk.
420
00:23:31.804 --> 00:23:31.964
Yeah.
421
00:23:32.484 --> 00:23:36.048
type away the laptop all day, don't see sunshine.
422
00:23:36.649 --> 00:23:39.732
If they exercise, it's maybe in a highly structured class in the gym.
423
00:23:40.833 --> 00:23:45.678
That fundamentally is not biologically primitive for us, right?
424
00:23:45.718 --> 00:23:47.440
It's actually very subversive.
425
00:23:47.781 --> 00:23:52.666
Then we go to all of the things the modern world lays on top that downregulate testosterone.
426
00:23:53.493 --> 00:23:56.855
Our soil and food is mineral and micronutrient depleted.
427
00:23:57.555 --> 00:24:05.380
You need nutrients like boron and selenium and magnesium and potassium and vitamin D to synthesize testosterone.
428
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:09.742
And most of us are deficient in those nutrients and minerals.
429
00:24:11.060 --> 00:24:15.302
We then go to all of the harmful things in our environment, right?
430
00:24:15.322 --> 00:24:17.323
A lot of people are overloaded with toxins.
431
00:24:17.863 --> 00:24:19.364
That puts our liver on overdrive.
432
00:24:19.624 --> 00:24:21.145
That downregulates testosterone.
433
00:24:21.825 --> 00:24:24.106
We can, BPA decreases testosterone.
434
00:24:24.186 --> 00:24:26.267
Wearing polyester decreases testosterone.
435
00:24:26.407 --> 00:24:28.948
So many of these things in our environment decrease testosterone.
436
00:24:30.129 --> 00:24:36.171
So then we take this set of facts and we live in this world where testosterone for men, say my age, used to be 800 to 1,000.
437
00:24:37.672 --> 00:24:41.253
And now it's 300 to like 400, right?
438
00:24:41.573 --> 00:24:44.354
And the impact of that is people get less done.
439
00:24:44.514 --> 00:24:45.474
They have less drive.
440
00:24:45.494 --> 00:24:46.794
They do less in the world.
441
00:24:47.334 --> 00:24:52.195
So I think a lot of people think of this testosterone thing as this hyper-masculinized bro culture.
442
00:24:52.215 --> 00:24:57.637
But I actually think that the more subtle implication is that men used to go to war.
443
00:24:57.657 --> 00:24:59.917
We used to create cities and big buildings.
444
00:25:00.237 --> 00:25:02.678
And now we like type 140 characters.
445
00:25:02.838 --> 00:25:05.499
Why do you think war is always the comparison?
446
00:25:05.519 --> 00:25:07.359
Like it's even funny around the Bay Area,
447
00:25:07.959 --> 00:25:26.550
uh you hear a lot like oh they're they're they're coding way in the they're in the war room and like all the funds they're like oh we have the war room it's like the war room really like you're talking about your upcoming series b round like big deal but it's not fucking war guys um why why do we go to war like in this why do we talk about that as the comparison
448
00:25:27.210 --> 00:25:36.272
Humanity, evolutionarily, is a story of survival selection and sexual selection, right?
449
00:25:36.492 --> 00:25:42.673
Survival selection meaning do you survive the war, the battle, and do you reproduce?
450
00:25:43.013 --> 00:25:44.074
Are you high status?
451
00:25:44.474 --> 00:25:47.414
And that has been the story for most of human existence.
452
00:25:47.614 --> 00:25:49.115
We've been around, let's say we've been around 60,000 years.
453
00:25:50.860 --> 00:25:56.323
For 59,800 of those 60,000 years we used to war.
454
00:25:57.164 --> 00:25:57.684
Now we don't.
455
00:25:58.225 --> 00:26:01.126
And there's an interesting question of has humanity all of a sudden changed?
456
00:26:01.146 --> 00:26:05.049
Has 200 years been the fundamental shift in psychology and biology?
457
00:26:05.969 --> 00:26:08.451
Or have we had to create some sort of like modern warfare?
458
00:26:08.891 --> 00:26:16.036
And I'd contend the modern warfare is typing on Twitter or sitting behind a keyboard or sitting in a room and creating a company.
459
00:26:16.056 --> 00:26:16.556
Because we need it.
460
00:26:17.116 --> 00:26:17.917
Like we created it.
461
00:26:18.595 --> 00:26:22.598
Uh, yeah, I think it's like in certain respects a Darwinistic need.
462
00:26:22.798 --> 00:26:23.538
That's fascinating.
463
00:26:23.978 --> 00:26:24.279
Okay.
464
00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:26.440
So we used to go to war.
465
00:26:27.741 --> 00:26:35.865
I really love your framing of like we used to create things and put ourselves out in the world and we'd be in nature and we'd touch grass and we just don't do that anymore.
466
00:26:36.466 --> 00:26:37.687
And now your testosterone is low.
467
00:26:38.207 --> 00:26:38.447
Okay.
468
00:26:39.067 --> 00:26:41.809
So then there's the toxins piece, the diet piece.
469
00:26:41.849 --> 00:26:42.870
Let's talk about that a little bit more.
470
00:26:42.890 --> 00:26:43.510
Okay.
471
00:26:43.710 --> 00:26:58.373
what are the just most common what's going on here yeah so uh we can start with toxins right there are all sorts of chemicals in our environment that never used to exist and many of these chemicals are called endocrine disruptors in other words they disrupt our hormones
472
00:26:59.054 --> 00:27:00.574
And they're ubiquitous.
473
00:27:00.634 --> 00:27:02.675
BPA is a classic one.
474
00:27:03.215 --> 00:27:04.915
I thought I avoided all BPA.
475
00:27:05.415 --> 00:27:09.316
I didn't take anything, drink ever from a plastic water bottle.
476
00:27:09.716 --> 00:27:11.217
I never heated anything up in plastic.
477
00:27:11.237 --> 00:27:12.337
I avoided it like the plague.
478
00:27:12.897 --> 00:27:15.397
And my BPA levels when I tested were in the 99th percentile.
479
00:27:16.098 --> 00:27:17.858
Now, the percentiles were determined 20 years ago.
480
00:27:18.338 --> 00:27:27.440
So I might not be the 99th percentile today, but I was higher than 99% of people with my BPA load than people 20 years ago, and I avoid all plastic.
481
00:27:28.235 --> 00:27:29.156
That is crazy.
482
00:27:29.216 --> 00:27:30.517
Do you know where it came from for you then?
483
00:27:31.077 --> 00:27:33.279
It's hard to say, but when you look at it, it's in everything.
484
00:27:33.459 --> 00:27:35.541
You get something that's sweet green, full of plastic.
485
00:27:35.561 --> 00:27:40.185
You get a fair life thing full of BPA, PFA's, all sorts of other chemicals.
486
00:27:40.565 --> 00:27:45.169
You get a coffee in a hot cup where you're basically melting the sides of a plastic chamber.
487
00:27:45.189 --> 00:27:46.310
You get a teabag.
488
00:27:46.450 --> 00:27:47.711
It's made from plastic, right?
489
00:27:48.131 --> 00:27:49.392
So you get receipts.
490
00:27:49.452 --> 00:27:52.214
Receipts are printed on thermal paper, which is plastic.
491
00:27:52.595 --> 00:27:53.856
So we really have it everywhere.
492
00:27:53.916 --> 00:27:55.257
And that's one thing.
493
00:27:56.438 --> 00:27:57.218
We have other toxins.
494
00:27:57.559 --> 00:27:59.100
We have mercury in fish.
495
00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:01.722
It's very hard to avoid mercury in fish now.
496
00:28:02.302 --> 00:28:03.883
We have arsenic in salt.
497
00:28:03.903 --> 00:28:05.184
We have arsenic in cacao.
498
00:28:06.285 --> 00:28:08.186
We have mold in modern buildings.
499
00:28:08.226 --> 00:28:09.307
We have mold in coffee.
500
00:28:09.347 --> 00:28:10.408
We have mold in oats.
501
00:28:12.309 --> 00:28:35.755
uh there is we have air quality that's far lower you're in the middle of the city and there's fumes everywhere there's rubber and dust coming off the tires of all these cars around us so there are so many of these things in our environment that never used to exist and every year that goes by we start to understand the effects and one of those effects is on testosterone so all right let's fast forward
502
00:28:42.997 --> 00:28:48.201
okay, so it's one thing to like know your numbers, where you're at, which is already a huge step forward.
503
00:28:48.902 --> 00:28:53.806
But then how do we actually make some real change and help people fix everything?
504
00:28:53.826 --> 00:28:56.528
It's a good problem for you guys to have.
505
00:28:56.649 --> 00:28:57.549
Yeah, yeah, totally.
506
00:28:57.890 --> 00:29:01.853
I think a big part of it is get someone to care.
507
00:29:02.774 --> 00:29:06.437
And that starts by when you see what is going wrong and you understand the implications.
508
00:29:07.157 --> 00:29:07.738
That's step one.
509
00:29:08.198 --> 00:29:09.960
What do you do with the fear of that?
510
00:29:11.173 --> 00:29:12.394
So I can give a back story.
511
00:29:12.735 --> 00:29:16.720
I signed up for Function Health, your competitor, about a year ago.
512
00:29:17.701 --> 00:29:23.447
And I had met them at some of the founding team and some of their investors since the beginning.
513
00:29:24.433 --> 00:29:25.333
And I was like, oh, this is great.
514
00:29:25.353 --> 00:29:26.074
This is so cool.
515
00:29:26.114 --> 00:29:27.515
This is right in my alley.
516
00:29:27.535 --> 00:29:33.678
I would love to like finally a cool product where I can go test and get my numbers and it'd be like easy on my smartphone.
517
00:29:34.118 --> 00:29:43.743
And I waited, I think, over a year to do it just because I was too afraid of potentially getting some bad news and the feeling I would have the day I would get that bad news.
518
00:29:43.763 --> 00:29:45.104
It was almost like ignorance is bliss.
519
00:29:45.804 --> 00:29:46.565
That's a problem.
520
00:29:46.985 --> 00:29:48.486
And I can't imagine I'm alone in that.
521
00:29:48.506 --> 00:29:50.427
And then I finally did it one day and it turns out everything was fine.
522
00:29:51.414 --> 00:29:54.356
I think it's a problem if you don't have the steps to change it.
523
00:29:54.936 --> 00:29:57.797
And the reason we started the company is not to test someone.
524
00:29:57.817 --> 00:30:05.662
The reason we started the company is to improve their health, to make them feel incredible, look younger, have more energy, sleep better, and live longer.
525
00:30:06.502 --> 00:30:06.762
Right.
526
00:30:07.122 --> 00:30:07.982
That's why we're here.
527
00:30:08.523 --> 00:30:13.984
And what that means is the only reason we do a test is so that you can understand how to do those things.
528
00:30:14.624 --> 00:30:26.068
So a big part of it has to be this idea that people understand, which is we do this so you can start taking action so that you can actually achieve all these things you want to achieve for your health and your life.
529
00:30:26.988 --> 00:30:27.168
Okay.
530
00:30:27.188 --> 00:30:27.908
So you get your numbers.
531
00:30:28.848 --> 00:30:29.689
It's time to take action.
532
00:30:29.749 --> 00:30:30.469
What do you do next?
533
00:30:31.302 --> 00:30:34.243
Yeah, for us that comes together in what we call the protocol.
534
00:30:34.524 --> 00:30:36.945
And this is the like centerpiece of the superpower experience.
535
00:30:37.185 --> 00:30:49.090
And the protocol takes into account your preferences, your budget, your health goals, the things you care about, how long do you want to live, how often do you exercise and all of your data, right?
536
00:30:49.130 --> 00:30:54.433
Your wearable data, your blood test data and all of your past data and all of that comes together to create a protocol.
537
00:30:55.273 --> 00:30:58.619
And the idea of the protocol is we want to say to someone, health is really hard.
538
00:30:58.859 --> 00:30:59.600
There's so much out there.
539
00:30:59.620 --> 00:31:00.481
It's hard to know what to do.
540
00:31:00.962 --> 00:31:01.804
Let's simplify it for you.
541
00:31:02.385 --> 00:31:03.727
Let's actually, and we'll structure it.
542
00:31:03.747 --> 00:31:06.130
We say, here's goal one, here's goal two, here's goal three.
543
00:31:06.151 --> 00:31:07.693
And we'll choose three to five key goals.
544
00:31:08.334 --> 00:31:09.716
We'll say, here's what you do to solve this goal.
545
00:31:10.617 --> 00:31:12.578
So let's say your goal is I want to increase testosterone.
546
00:31:12.618 --> 00:31:13.479
I'm going back to that point.
547
00:31:13.979 --> 00:31:14.940
We'll say, here's what you can do.
548
00:31:15.560 --> 00:31:16.921
Then do you want to do these things?
549
00:31:16.941 --> 00:31:20.723
And you choose to add the items to your protocol if you want to do those things.
550
00:31:21.103 --> 00:31:22.584
We might go to gut health next.
551
00:31:22.604 --> 00:31:24.365
We might go to heart disease prevention next.
552
00:31:24.705 --> 00:31:25.946
And we'll say, here's what we recommend.
553
00:31:26.006 --> 00:31:26.526
Here's why.
554
00:31:26.727 --> 00:31:27.347
Here's the risk.
555
00:31:27.367 --> 00:31:29.748
Here's the time to heal based on this protocol.
556
00:31:29.768 --> 00:31:30.929
Do you want to add them?
557
00:31:31.169 --> 00:31:34.391
And a lot of people add these items to their protocol and start taking action.
558
00:31:34.891 --> 00:31:38.713
When was the moment that something happened with a user of Superpower?
559
00:31:38.733 --> 00:31:39.114
Superpower.
560
00:31:39.854 --> 00:31:43.436
and you heard about it and thought, this is why I'm doing this.
561
00:31:44.317 --> 00:31:47.339
Yeah, honestly, man, like, like every day.
562
00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:53.863
Um, but one of the, one of the recent stories that comes to mind was actually someone on our team.
563
00:31:54.663 --> 00:31:59.627
And he wrote this, uh, really long blog post about his health journey and his before and after.
564
00:32:00.507 --> 00:32:10.032
And he's before photo, he was really obese and he was struggling with work and had brain fog all the time and didn't feel that alive or that energetic.
565
00:32:10.872 --> 00:32:16.856
And he's after photo, he's like really fit, really healthy, tanned, happy, smiling.
566
00:32:18.396 --> 00:32:19.057
And he discovered...
567
00:32:19.997 --> 00:32:22.459
one main thing, which is that his testosterone was low.
568
00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:26.461
There are a handful of other things we had to do, but that was the one main thing he discovered.
569
00:32:26.501 --> 00:32:29.463
And it's crazy how he wouldn't have otherwise discovered that.
570
00:32:29.763 --> 00:32:31.404
And now his life has changed the better.
571
00:32:32.265 --> 00:32:33.026
That's one example.
572
00:32:33.106 --> 00:32:36.348
Every day we see stories of, oh, I discovered I had prediabetes.
573
00:32:36.388 --> 00:32:38.409
Or I discovered I had a high genetic risk of heart disease.
574
00:32:38.429 --> 00:32:40.390
Now I'm taking this thing to prevent it, et cetera.
575
00:32:40.911 --> 00:32:44.593
What's it like for you hanging out with other 25 year olds, normal 25 year olds?
576
00:32:45.016 --> 00:32:46.657
I don't do much hanging out in general.
577
00:32:46.817 --> 00:32:48.778
Like I mainly just work.
578
00:32:49.078 --> 00:32:49.278
Yeah.
579
00:32:49.938 --> 00:32:55.360
For the sake of just general health and longevity, how important do you think social, your social life is?
580
00:32:56.381 --> 00:32:58.341
I think it's really important.
581
00:32:58.942 --> 00:33:08.325
I think that that comes about in different ways, but the key thing is, yeah, you go around people who care about you and who you feel comfortable with and who you can be yourself with.
582
00:33:08.565 --> 00:33:08.846
Yeah.
583
00:33:08.886 --> 00:33:12.207
Do you ever listen to Simon Sinek's or any of his work?
584
00:33:12.777 --> 00:33:13.858
I have before, yeah.
585
00:33:13.878 --> 00:33:20.561
He talks a lot about how the number one predictor for longevity and health is actually how vibrant your friendships are, your close friendships.
586
00:33:21.201 --> 00:33:24.563
I may have over-paraphrased that, but that was pretty shocking to me when I heard that.
587
00:33:24.683 --> 00:33:28.585
You know, he'll ask, like, what do you think is the number one indicator of long life?
588
00:33:28.605 --> 00:33:33.127
And I'm like, I don't know, not eating sugar or, like, not getting cancer or don't get hit by a car or whatever it is.
589
00:33:33.547 --> 00:33:34.628
Like, he's having close friends.
590
00:33:34.648 --> 00:33:36.789
I was like, no, fucking, that's crazy.
591
00:33:36.809 --> 00:33:38.810
What do you think of that?
592
00:33:39.752 --> 00:33:48.017
I mean, sure, there's like a statistic to it, but I don't want to totally frame it as like, you just say you're a 25 year old, you don't spend much time hanging out with people.
593
00:33:49.138 --> 00:33:51.119
No, I spend a lot of time hanging out with people.
594
00:33:51.159 --> 00:33:51.499
Yeah.
595
00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:56.642
And I don't arbitrarily hang out with just like other 25 year olds.
596
00:33:56.722 --> 00:34:02.786
It's certainly not an element of like, well, then prove to me how you're prioritizing your social life.
597
00:34:02.846 --> 00:34:04.747
But I'm more just curious around.
598
00:34:06.128 --> 00:34:07.149
That's really fascinating.
599
00:34:07.790 --> 00:34:16.322
And I think it's starting to come out in the topic of the loneliness epidemic, which shares a shelf with the suicide rates.
600
00:34:17.443 --> 00:34:24.670
And then that leads to a conversation about men's mental health because it's like 80 something percent I think of suicides are men.
601
00:34:25.271 --> 00:34:40.486
So when it comes to the conversations you're having internally in your war room or with your engineers, when you think about what you're building or when you're laying in bed late at night thinking about like the future of the product and all that, where does social fall into this for people?
602
00:34:40.926 --> 00:34:42.127
Yeah, I think there's two parts to it.
603
00:34:42.247 --> 00:34:45.689
One is help someone understand that social matters, right?
604
00:34:46.189 --> 00:34:48.230
A lot of people probably don't even realize it matters.
605
00:34:48.930 --> 00:34:56.454
And then the second thing is, how do you start to allow someone to socialize and spend more time socializing?
606
00:34:56.474 --> 00:34:59.956
And I think there's like two parts to that, at least for us, right?
607
00:34:59.976 --> 00:35:02.878
There's other companies that probably solve that more effectively than we do.
608
00:35:02.898 --> 00:35:04.139
I don't think it's the main thing we solve.
609
00:35:05.312 --> 00:35:09.896
Part one of how we will do that is actually just solving someone's health.
610
00:35:10.216 --> 00:35:17.943
Like you don't wanna socialize if you're kind of anxious or feeling down or you don't have energy or you don't feel full of life or you're tired the whole time, right?
611
00:35:18.003 --> 00:35:19.584
It's hard to socialize when you feel that way.
612
00:35:19.604 --> 00:35:22.346
It's far easier to socialize when you're energetic and happy
613
00:35:23.228 --> 00:35:30.811
one of our, um, the guy who runs product for us, he works a hundred hours a week and he probably socializes for like 20 hours a week.
614
00:35:30.831 --> 00:35:31.191
I don't know.
615
00:35:31.211 --> 00:35:32.032
He doesn't sleep much.
616
00:35:32.692 --> 00:35:33.272
He doesn't need to.
617
00:35:33.292 --> 00:35:34.052
He's got that gene.
618
00:35:34.713 --> 00:35:39.315
Um, and that's because he's got so much energy and so much vibrance the whole time.
619
00:35:39.335 --> 00:35:39.835
Yeah.
620
00:35:40.563 --> 00:35:46.067
The second thing we do, and I don't think we're amazing at moving the needle on it, but the second thing we do is try to create moments of community.
621
00:35:46.828 --> 00:35:53.833
Like, what does it look like for people to identify with being a superpower member and come to our run club or, like, meet others who are part of the community?
622
00:35:54.273 --> 00:35:56.135
Because I do think social is a big part of health.
623
00:35:56.395 --> 00:35:56.575
Yeah.
624
00:35:57.076 --> 00:35:59.557
So for a guy who works, you said 110 hours a week.
625
00:36:00.854 --> 00:36:02.094
Probably 100, yeah, sometimes 110.
626
00:36:02.114 --> 00:36:03.415
100, still a lot.
627
00:36:03.975 --> 00:36:09.057
What is your advice to the next workaholic whom you don't know yet who's burning the fuck out?
628
00:36:09.957 --> 00:36:11.257
Try to understand why you're burning out.
629
00:36:12.478 --> 00:36:17.279
Is it because your biology is on unstable foundations?
630
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:20.100
Is it because you don't have much meaning in your work?
631
00:36:20.980 --> 00:36:27.643
Is it because you're not doing the right things to recover in between?
632
00:36:28.024 --> 00:36:30.065
I think a big part is like, why are you burning out?
633
00:36:30.525 --> 00:36:35.107
Because I don't think it's that working inherently causes burnout because we're doing.
634
00:36:36.348 --> 00:36:39.069
Yeah, so I think that that's the right starting point.
635
00:36:39.529 --> 00:36:42.230
I think for some people, they might realize their health foundations are out of whack.
636
00:36:42.290 --> 00:36:43.551
Their HIV is shot.
637
00:36:43.651 --> 00:36:44.772
They need to solve that first.
638
00:36:45.312 --> 00:36:46.192
Some people might realize.
639
00:36:46.212 --> 00:36:46.553
Talk about HRV.
640
00:36:47.773 --> 00:36:51.695
We did an episode on HRV a while back with Salim Najars, the HRV guy.
641
00:36:52.395 --> 00:36:56.177
Awesome episode, but still wildly misunderstood.
642
00:36:56.657 --> 00:36:58.518
How do you, tell people, what's HRV?
643
00:36:59.218 --> 00:37:03.080
The simplest way I think about it, so it's a biomarker.
644
00:37:03.180 --> 00:37:04.721
This stands for heart rate variability.
645
00:37:05.521 --> 00:37:13.165
And as a single biomarker, it's probably the best one we have to give us a sense of day-to-day readiness and the resilience of our body.
646
00:37:13.905 --> 00:37:23.790
And it's really interesting because if I ever meet someone who works really, really hard, nearly always their HIV is really high, which is the opposite of what you think.
647
00:37:23.810 --> 00:37:26.452
You'd be like, well, if you're working really hard, that's going to tank your HIV.
648
00:37:26.472 --> 00:37:34.296
But actually what is happening is when someone's healthy, their HIV is high and they can work hard, they can exercise hard, they can go to the gym often.
649
00:37:34.837 --> 00:37:36.678
So it's an overall like biomarker of recovery.
650
00:37:37.198 --> 00:37:42.321
And it's a great catch all because everything we do, the amount we sleep, the amount we exercise, what we eat,
651
00:37:42.961 --> 00:37:47.485
Wow, age, all of that is going to likely show up at the level of HIV.
652
00:37:47.685 --> 00:37:50.407
So you want it as high, basically as high as possible, right?
653
00:37:50.528 --> 00:37:50.708
Yeah.
654
00:37:51.108 --> 00:37:54.051
So I hired Salim and we did a couple months of coaching.
655
00:37:54.751 --> 00:37:55.852
I'll give him a little shout out here.
656
00:37:56.653 --> 00:37:59.595
And the whole premise was, help me raise my HRV.
657
00:38:00.436 --> 00:38:04.519
And I was, I don't know, maybe like three or four months after a pretty tough breakup.
658
00:38:05.219 --> 00:38:08.722
I was like in fucking locked in mode, founder mode, building the company.
659
00:38:08.902 --> 00:38:11.043
I was just starting to train for a big endurance event.
660
00:38:11.844 --> 00:38:12.864
And my HRV was shot.
661
00:38:12.884 --> 00:38:16.227
I think my lowest was like a typical night.
662
00:38:16.987 --> 00:38:20.009
and you get it when you sleep, it was like 25 or 30.
663
00:38:20.949 --> 00:38:24.831
And I wanted it up in the 80s and above, over 100 if I could.
664
00:38:25.612 --> 00:38:28.973
And I was like, okay, cool, Salim, let's get to it.
665
00:38:28.993 --> 00:38:30.935
How do we raise my HIV?
666
00:38:30.995 --> 00:38:32.715
Let's go, come on, give me the fucking prescription.
667
00:38:33.436 --> 00:38:37.218
And all the work we did was actually around meditation
668
00:38:38.713 --> 00:38:44.736
breath work, journaling, and various gratitude practices.
669
00:38:45.336 --> 00:38:48.198
And at first, I'm just kind of like, I didn't hire a meditation coach.
670
00:38:48.478 --> 00:38:49.498
I hired an HRV coach.
671
00:38:50.659 --> 00:38:51.579
And I'm just like, all right, whatever.
672
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:52.300
I did the thing.
673
00:38:52.680 --> 00:38:55.902
Every morning, he made me meditate and then check in with him on a voice memo.
674
00:38:56.662 --> 00:38:59.403
Throughout the day, as things would come up, I'd, again, check in on voice memos.
675
00:38:59.443 --> 00:39:00.784
It was like a really strict thing.
676
00:39:01.384 --> 00:39:01.825
What happened?
677
00:39:02.385 --> 00:39:03.285
HRV skyrocketed.
678
00:39:03.445 --> 00:39:04.606
Wow, what did he get to?
679
00:39:04.946 --> 00:39:05.947
I think my highest was like 135.
680
00:39:06.587 --> 00:39:07.527
That's crazy.
681
00:39:07.587 --> 00:39:10.468
And then we finished the coaching and I just kind of fell off.
682
00:39:10.508 --> 00:39:12.109
I stopped, plummeted again.
683
00:39:12.949 --> 00:39:20.751
And I looked at it on a year on my Garmin data tracker, like over the course of one year, how's my HRV change?
684
00:39:20.771 --> 00:39:23.272
And then I'd match it up with my eight sleep mattress, same data.
685
00:39:23.292 --> 00:39:30.054
And it just like clearly shot up, dropped, and then balanced out again when I realized this shit actually does really work.
686
00:39:30.734 --> 00:39:38.398
And then to couple it with like, well, HRV is basically the number one measurement to your overall health, aka, are you going to die?
687
00:39:39.099 --> 00:39:42.441
Like the number one measurement for stress and stress is the number one cause of death.
688
00:39:43.161 --> 00:39:46.663
So I'm like, oh, shit, all right, maybe meditation will actually save my life.
689
00:39:47.023 --> 00:39:48.504
Like very logical way of getting there.
690
00:39:49.745 --> 00:39:52.647
So you said you meditate every time you're in an elevator for 15 seconds.
691
00:39:54.168 --> 00:39:54.768
Tell me more about that.
692
00:39:56.200 --> 00:39:57.921
I love this idea of passive optimization.
693
00:39:58.682 --> 00:40:05.467
And the idea is we don't actually have a lot of time to all of a sudden add 20 hours of exercise a week or an hour of meditation a day.
694
00:40:05.527 --> 00:40:07.548
Most of us don't have time for that, right?
695
00:40:07.628 --> 00:40:12.652
So how do we take the things we're already doing and turn them into moments that are more productive?
696
00:40:12.672 --> 00:40:14.153
How do we passively optimize?
697
00:40:14.734 --> 00:40:20.278
And for me, I look at all the moments that exist throughout my day and I say, how can I add the healthy version of that behavior?
698
00:40:20.298 --> 00:40:20.458
Yeah.
699
00:40:21.038 --> 00:40:26.283
Now, the example you gave is when I'm in the elevator, I go up and down the elevator probably 10 times a day, maybe more.
700
00:40:26.964 --> 00:40:30.948
So 15, 20 second ride, I will meditate for 15 to 20 seconds.
701
00:40:31.449 --> 00:40:37.114
I'll close my eyes, I'll breathe deeply, I'll pay attention to what's around me, and I'll downregulate my nervous system.
702
00:40:38.036 --> 00:40:45.426
Another form of passive optimization for me is I'm in a meeting and I'll try to breathe in for five and a half seconds, out for five and a half seconds.
703
00:40:45.847 --> 00:40:47.128
That increases your HRV.
704
00:40:47.429 --> 00:40:51.635
It's actually, if you wear a little device to measure HRV, you can wear it on your ear.
705
00:40:52.075 --> 00:40:53.297
You'll see... Why your ear...
706
00:40:54.058 --> 00:40:57.560
I don't know, it's just where many of these devices exist to continuously measure HRV.
707
00:40:57.620 --> 00:40:58.061
Interesting.
708
00:40:58.361 --> 00:41:12.109
And you can see the sinusoidal curve of, I think it's your HRV that it's showing, and your curve goes from very jagged and like a different amplitude when you're doing that to very smooth, like a sine wave.
709
00:41:12.510 --> 00:41:16.532
When you practice gratitude, you also enter that sine wave.
710
00:41:17.052 --> 00:41:20.775
When you're in anger or frustration or anxiety, your curve's all over the place.
711
00:41:21.195 --> 00:41:27.717
other forms of passive optimization when I'm standing at my desk under the desk I've got two lacrosse balls and I'll sometimes stand on them and roll my feet.
712
00:41:28.117 --> 00:41:37.599
I've got some like gripper things, my hands, I've got a I've got bands like resistance bands and I'll do band pull apart sometimes on a call.
713
00:41:38.120 --> 00:41:42.941
So I try to find what are these moments where I can take something I'm already doing and make it more productive.
714
00:41:43.201 --> 00:41:43.981
And what point is it?
715
00:41:45.101 --> 00:41:46.722
Because my gut reaction to these is like
716
00:41:47.963 --> 00:41:49.684
I think anyone would probably be in the same boat.
717
00:41:49.704 --> 00:41:50.885
It's like, there's such small things.
718
00:41:50.925 --> 00:41:51.945
How could that make an impact?
719
00:41:52.546 --> 00:41:54.687
The truth is it actually makes a massive impact.
720
00:41:54.727 --> 00:42:05.653
It's kind of like if you just do 10 push-ups every day, that's it, 10 push-ups every day between, you know, while you're waiting for your coffee to heat up in the morning, fast forward three years, like, life has changed.
721
00:42:05.813 --> 00:42:07.254
Like, eh, it's little micro things.
722
00:42:09.075 --> 00:42:12.757
What are your thoughts on the micro pennies in the jar?
723
00:42:13.464 --> 00:42:16.947
I love this idea that the small things done consistently are the big things.
724
00:42:17.888 --> 00:42:21.291
If you do the micro and you turn them into habits, they add up.
725
00:42:21.611 --> 00:42:24.694
Because there are dozens of micro moments every day.
726
00:42:25.375 --> 00:42:27.377
Every time you're walking is a micro moment.
727
00:42:27.437 --> 00:42:28.678
Every meeting is a micro moment.
728
00:42:29.238 --> 00:42:34.801
Every time when you're making food is a micro moment, in the shower is a micro moment, brushing teeth is a micro moment.
729
00:42:34.821 --> 00:42:37.082
There are so many moments that are micro moments.
730
00:42:37.482 --> 00:42:40.683
And if we're consciously having to think about how to use them, that's hard.
731
00:42:41.104 --> 00:42:47.606
If we build the habit of doing something productive in that time, all of a sudden we're passively optimizing our health.
732
00:42:48.087 --> 00:42:52.949
We don't add any extra mental burden, any extra time, and we become a lot healthier as a result.
733
00:42:53.289 --> 00:42:55.990
All right, I want to play a little bit of a game slash scenario with you.
734
00:42:56.750 --> 00:42:58.830
Think about your ideal work environment.
735
00:42:59.750 --> 00:43:01.251
You're the leader, which you are.
736
00:43:02.111 --> 00:43:06.712
How do you lead and inspire and set up a team from a health standpoint?
737
00:43:06.732 --> 00:43:08.652
How do you make sure everyone's healthy?
738
00:43:09.232 --> 00:43:09.933
And why does that matter?
739
00:43:10.353 --> 00:43:15.494
The first thing is being in a space that's conducive to health, right?
740
00:43:15.554 --> 00:43:17.194
I toured 30 offices to find our office.
741
00:43:17.794 --> 00:43:20.755
And for us, conducive to health meant lots of natural light
742
00:43:21.695 --> 00:43:37.349
high ceilings open space no mold in in the space no volatile organic compounds uh that start that's a good way of it's a good starting point it seems like that's the opposite of every single corporate environment
743
00:43:37.589 --> 00:43:38.089
Totally.
744
00:43:38.350 --> 00:43:38.570
Right.
745
00:43:38.590 --> 00:43:46.355
Like the corporate environment is like small, claustrophobic, low lighting, artificial lighting the whole day.
746
00:43:46.395 --> 00:43:48.057
Tons of mold, tons of dust.
747
00:43:48.377 --> 00:43:49.337
Um, totally.
748
00:43:49.538 --> 00:43:49.678
Yeah.
749
00:43:49.698 --> 00:43:50.698
So that's the first thing.
750
00:43:51.099 --> 00:43:55.762
The second thing is hiring people who are going to get on with each other in our culture fit.
751
00:43:56.222 --> 00:43:59.605
We will say no to someone who's really great because we don't think they're a cultural fit.
752
00:43:59.705 --> 00:44:01.086
How do you assess culture fit?
753
00:44:01.646 --> 00:44:23.644
ah it's more vibes yeah like we try to get a sense of someone's personality how friendly they are what they're passionate about uh how they communicate how authentic they are and that's important right because if you're around you i said that i don't hang out with a bunch of people randomly but everyone on my team are friends right i'm always surrounded by friends and that's really energizing every day to be in an environment like that
754
00:44:24.887 --> 00:44:29.571
I think the third thing is making sure that you're working on something that's like meaningful and fun.
755
00:44:30.412 --> 00:44:30.612
Right?
756
00:44:30.632 --> 00:44:32.874
Like we try to make the office as fun as possible.
757
00:44:33.214 --> 00:44:36.497
We have like, I was walking through the office last night, I'm getting shot up with a Nerf gun.
758
00:44:37.278 --> 00:44:39.940
There are all sorts of little moments of delight we try to create.
759
00:44:40.561 --> 00:44:44.064
Because when you're laughing and playing around and having fun, that's great for health.
760
00:44:44.584 --> 00:44:44.804
Right?
761
00:44:45.305 --> 00:44:47.426
And then how does that impact your bottom line?
762
00:44:48.387 --> 00:44:51.889
Uh, well, most of the, half of the team's there on Saturday and Sunday.
763
00:44:52.409 --> 00:44:54.370
Half of the team is there past 8 p.m. at night.
764
00:44:54.690 --> 00:44:56.191
And we don't say to anyone, you have to be there.
765
00:44:56.631 --> 00:44:59.232
People are there because they like being there.
766
00:44:59.252 --> 00:45:00.373
It's genuinely fun.
767
00:45:00.433 --> 00:45:01.834
People like having dinner with the team.
768
00:45:02.414 --> 00:45:07.616
So that, I believe over time, flows down to the company doing greater things.
769
00:45:07.636 --> 00:45:12.899
When you mention this, I can't stop thinking about all my friends in New York who are in investment banking.
770
00:45:14.780 --> 00:45:16.801
How would you describe that culture?
771
00:45:18.116 --> 00:45:22.079
I spent a bit of time doing it, so I saw it firsthand.
772
00:45:23.139 --> 00:45:27.142
It is very performant.
773
00:45:28.002 --> 00:45:29.243
You have people who are very driven.
774
00:45:29.844 --> 00:45:30.984
It's reasonably political.
775
00:45:31.625 --> 00:45:33.366
People don't feel like they're doing meaningful work.
776
00:45:34.266 --> 00:45:35.887
There's quite high fear.
777
00:45:36.288 --> 00:45:39.210
If you have one full stop out of place, you kind of get yelled at.
778
00:45:39.950 --> 00:45:40.891
There's not that much fun.
779
00:45:41.231 --> 00:45:43.514
There's a lot of pressure to be the same.
780
00:45:43.794 --> 00:45:45.236
It's very conformist.
781
00:45:45.676 --> 00:45:49.720
If you don't like the things other people want, like, you're kind of out of there.
782
00:45:51.122 --> 00:45:54.505
Quirkiness, nidosyncrasy isn't really, like, appreciated and recognized.
783
00:45:55.426 --> 00:46:00.151
There's a bit of, like, a laugh at you culture if someone doesn't fit into the mold.
784
00:46:00.231 --> 00:46:01.553
Literally all this sounds horrible.
785
00:46:02.154 --> 00:46:03.055
Uh, yeah.
786
00:46:03.075 --> 00:46:03.596
It sucks.
787
00:46:03.916 --> 00:46:04.116
Yeah.
788
00:46:04.277 --> 00:46:08.543
But, uh, the flip side is people learn a lot.
789
00:46:09.204 --> 00:46:12.568
You're around very smart people and that's powerful.
790
00:46:13.770 --> 00:46:14.011
Okay.
791
00:46:14.411 --> 00:46:16.975
Contrast that with the ideal culture.
792
00:46:17.536 --> 00:46:18.457
Ideally the one you're building.
793
00:46:18.931 --> 00:46:22.394
Yeah, the ideal culture is you wake up and you want to get into work, right?
794
00:46:22.834 --> 00:46:26.617
You walk into the building or the office or the lobby and you feel inspired.
795
00:46:27.538 --> 00:46:34.063
When we're choosing an office, the thing I was paying attention to was not what do I think about this space, it was when I walk in, how do I feel?
796
00:46:34.563 --> 00:46:39.567
And I used to bring different team members along with me to tour offices and I wasn't looking for what they said.
797
00:46:39.947 --> 00:46:41.888
I was just looking for their emotional reaction.
798
00:46:42.309 --> 00:46:43.870
Did they smile and did their eyes light up?
799
00:46:44.370 --> 00:46:45.952
Or were they like, oh yeah, this is cool.
800
00:46:45.972 --> 00:46:46.512
Yeah.
801
00:46:46.752 --> 00:46:49.613
Um, when you get in, people should be friendly.
802
00:46:49.633 --> 00:46:52.133
They should say, hi, there's probably something fun going on.
803
00:46:52.153 --> 00:46:53.413
Maybe people are meditating in the corner.
804
00:46:53.433 --> 00:46:54.694
Maybe there's a mobility session.
805
00:46:55.274 --> 00:46:56.914
Maybe there's like a breakfast being set up.
806
00:46:56.934 --> 00:47:00.075
Maybe people are hanging from a pull-up bar doing like a pull-up competition.
807
00:47:00.735 --> 00:47:02.375
Um, it should be kind of fun when you get in.
808
00:47:02.856 --> 00:47:05.256
What do you think looking around Silicon Valley?
809
00:47:06.276 --> 00:47:08.977
And we're here in a nice building, literally looking over Silicon Valley right now.
810
00:47:09.857 --> 00:47:14.058
What is your message for all these founders and VCs out there in that regard?
811
00:47:14.078 --> 00:47:14.178
Yeah.
812
00:47:15.670 --> 00:47:22.658
I think that the more that fun is an input into companies being able to do great work.
813
00:47:23.179 --> 00:47:30.547
It's very hard to have people working six to seven days a week, 10 to 14 hours a day, unless they enjoy it.
814
00:47:30.647 --> 00:47:32.328
And there's ways to create that in all different ways.
815
00:47:32.628 --> 00:47:34.729
Performance is a big part of it, right?
816
00:47:34.789 --> 00:47:38.992
Fun goes up for us when every single person you're working with is incredibly talented.
817
00:47:39.532 --> 00:47:42.854
But it's really important people have fun finding meaning.
818
00:47:43.934 --> 00:47:46.616
Otherwise, it's going to be hard to actually get them in the office.
819
00:47:46.676 --> 00:47:46.836
Yep.
820
00:47:47.656 --> 00:47:47.896
All right.
821
00:47:48.257 --> 00:47:53.659
Well, as we start to wrap up, I'm going to ask you the question that every guest gets asked on this show towards the end.
822
00:47:54.160 --> 00:47:55.640
We didn't really even touch on it a whole lot.
823
00:47:55.660 --> 00:47:57.401
So I'm really curious where we go with this.
824
00:47:58.522 --> 00:48:00.183
What do you think it means to be a man nowadays?
825
00:48:03.361 --> 00:48:04.322
That's a hard question.
826
00:48:06.464 --> 00:48:21.816
I think that nowadays is the wrong frame, because I think we have to go back to what it is always meant to be a man, which is have convictions, stand by what you believe, don't be afraid to authentically express.
827
00:48:22.577 --> 00:48:28.521
A lot of masculinity is suppressed because the world has made it scary for men to be men.
828
00:48:29.522 --> 00:48:48.428
I think it's being willing to be that being grounded, not avoiding conflict, um, standing up for what you believe in, and then also making sure your health is intact because we slowly decrease our manhood biologically when things are dysregulated.
829
00:48:48.448 --> 00:48:48.848
Yep.
830
00:48:49.348 --> 00:48:49.628
Okay.
831
00:48:51.049 --> 00:48:51.449
What would be
832
00:48:53.762 --> 00:49:00.426
the question you would ask 16-year-old Max if you were sitting at this table with him instead of with me?
833
00:49:02.268 --> 00:49:20.840
I would say, if you look back at your entire life to date and you look at the most authentic expression of what you want, of what that would mean for the rest of your life, what do you think that dream fictional life would look like?
834
00:49:20.860 --> 00:49:21.260
Mm-hmm.
835
00:49:22.752 --> 00:49:28.076
Same question, but what would be your, what would your question be for 35 year old Max?
836
00:49:28.477 --> 00:49:29.397
You were sitting at this table.
837
00:49:29.417 --> 00:49:30.358
So you in 10 years.
838
00:49:31.659 --> 00:49:44.209
Uh, what do you wish you knew and did 10 years ago when you were 25, uh, that you now know today?
839
00:49:46.050 --> 00:49:46.691
What comes to mind?
840
00:49:48.479 --> 00:50:03.847
Um, the things I still say, which is like, take more risk, dream bigger, be authentic, put yourself out there, um, do something you genuinely care about, um, follow your intuition.
841
00:50:04.367 --> 00:50:10.130
So the same things I know, but I think it's one thing to kind of know something and another thing to truly, truly live it.
842
00:50:10.490 --> 00:50:10.590
Yeah.
843
00:50:10.610 --> 00:50:11.291
All right.
844
00:50:11.311 --> 00:50:16.013
Now the last question for you is fast forward to the end of 2026, a little over a year from now.
845
00:50:17.908 --> 00:50:24.472
If you were sitting at some sort of fireplace or dinner table or something, you're reflecting on 2026.
846
00:50:25.372 --> 00:50:29.755
What would have had to happen in 2026 for you to say that was the freaking greatest year of my life?
847
00:50:30.975 --> 00:50:34.577
We have executed insanely quickly.
848
00:50:34.617 --> 00:50:38.420
We have done more in a year than most companies do in five years.
849
00:50:39.262 --> 00:50:40.823
And I think that is imperative, right?
850
00:50:40.883 --> 00:50:44.864
Because one way to actually extend our lives is to just get more done, right?
851
00:50:44.884 --> 00:50:45.845
Life is pretty short.
852
00:50:46.505 --> 00:50:51.587
And I think that every day we need to remind ourselves that life is short because we need to make the most of today.
853
00:50:52.168 --> 00:50:56.370
So at the end of 2026, I want to be like, we've done what most companies will do in five years.
854
00:50:56.870 --> 00:50:57.770
We've done that in one year.
855
00:50:58.811 --> 00:50:59.271
Nicely done.
856
00:51:00.251 --> 00:51:01.192
How can people find you online?
857
00:51:02.452 --> 00:51:07.114
MaxMarcioni.com is my website and same handle on Twitter and Instagram.
858
00:51:07.394 --> 00:51:07.754
Perfect.
859
00:51:08.035 --> 00:51:08.355
Thanks, man.
860
00:51:09.092 --> 00:51:09.484
Thanks, man.