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Welcome to the Momentum Plot Podcast, where ideas, innovations, and experiences are sure to create a continuous stream of inspiration and insight.
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Join me, your host, Lurizolana, a supply chain expert and investor, as I uncover how visionary founders, operators, and leaders are spotting opportunities, sparking innovation, and scaling profitable growth.
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From plan to cash, I bring real-world experience and an investor's eye to reveal how clarity, capital, and conviction feel sustainable growth.
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Tune in and let's keep the momentum flow going.
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So today's conversation sits at the intersection of capital, execution, and technology.
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I'm joined by Mark Jaeger, CEO of Rebu Logistics, who has also been a private equity advisor, bringing a rare dual lens across operating and investing.
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What makes the discussion timely is a simple but powerful shift.
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Whether public or private companies, asset heavy or platform-driven, the market is rewarding one clear thing: consistent, scalable performance in an unstable world.
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Mark, great to have you here.
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Welcome to the Momentum Thought.
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Thanks for having me, Luis.
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It's a pleasure to have you, Mark.
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So to start, why don't you share a bit about your personal journey?
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You know, you have your early days in Indiana University, Georgetown.
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You had a long stint at a public company like Hubgroup.
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You were the CEO and board member there.
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And the last decade you pivoted to the private sector with Redwood, and you had a tenure in advisory in the private equity world.
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So why don't you share a little bit about your journey?
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Yeah, that that certainly covers it.
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No question about that.
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I did go to Indiana and went on to Georgetown Law from there, uh, practiced law for a couple of years, and um came into the logistics space uh with Hub Group.
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Uh, as you may or may not know, my parents started the business back in 1971 in a single office uh with uh with no windows and uh built the company from there.
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So I came back uh into the fold.
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Uh I was with Hub for 23 years, uh, a lot of different roles, you know, everything from oh general counsel work to uh to uh heading sales.
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Uh my last position there was president and chief operating officer, and I was on the board of Hub Group as well.
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You know, after that, I really wanted to do something more entrepreneurial.
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And um I managed to find a private equity partner, CI Capital, and we set out on the path of building a billion-dollar platform uh in the logistics space.
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And that was back in 2016.
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Um we purchased uh Redwood Logistics and brought it together with a company called Simplified Logistics in uh 2018, and it's really been a run ever since there.
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Uh I am the CEO uh of Redwood Logistics and also sit on the board at this time.
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So it's been a great journey.
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It's been a fun journey, and it's been very interesting to see both the public and the private equity world uh firsthand.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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I I think you know, from really a family-owned business to public company to then private, it's definitely an interesting conversation.
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I'm sure we're gonna have a great conversation.
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So why don't we start by by you contrasting a little bit too clear about different phases of your professional career, right?
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You again, you've operated across public and private environments.
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Yep.
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What is fundamentally different between how supply chain strategies shaped in a public company versus a private company?
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Sure.
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I think, you know, I think there are many commonalities about developing and implementing and modifying strategy in those two environments, because you know, you are both in the logistics space.
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But I will say I think there are really some very significant differences.
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And and given my brothers, I have to say that when you talk about developing and implementing and modifying strategy, it's it's much easier in a private equity world uh than in a public company world.
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Um I think that that um the interface with a private equity partner is something that that most folks are much more comfortable with.
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You know, it's a dialogue, it's an ongoing discussion.
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In a good private equity relationship, there's alignment about how to create enterprise value.
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So, you know, in my experience with our two private equity partners, CI Capital and then AEA, um, they were really helpful in helping us develop and implement and and and modify those uh you know uh strategic choices, right?
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I think it's a very difficult world and a very different world in in the public space.
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You know, you you just can't have that kind of dialogue that you get in a PE space as you get uh uh as you're trying to talk through strategy and especially trying to modify strategy in a public world.
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So as an operator could you wear, so what do you think people really misunderstand that?
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The the the public market pressure versus the private equity expectations, which tend to be higher and the returns and that, right?
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So what do where do people misunderstand, the operators misunderstand the difference?
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Yeah, I I think there's no doubt that both have high expectations, right?
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And there's and there's a heavy price for failure.
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There's no question about that.
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But you know, as an operator, I think that uh what a lot of people don't understand in coming into the public sector is how important it is to set expectations.
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And it really is it's an art, um, and it really requires tremendous discipline and a lot of foresight and a certain amount of diplomacy as well.
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Um, I will say that at Hub, when we became public, we were very entrepreneurial.
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It was a great company.
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I think you always believe you're going to perform and you're always going to deliver.
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But in a public sector, there's really no room for aspiration, right?
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Unless you're Elon Musk.
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Uh, I think you really need to have a disciplined approach.
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You need to set expectations, and then you need to deliver on those expectations.
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You can have a great quarter, what feels like a great quarter in the public sector, but if you miss by a penny, you know, the impact on the stock price can be can be profound.
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And so there's just such an importance to set and manage those expectations that I think a lot of folks who come from an operating background or who have built a company uh just don't understand how an important part of value creation that is in a public world.
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So in both environments, I guess, you know, there's um you need to execute on a very disciplined way under pressure.
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So from your experience, any learning that you can share of executing under pressure.
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Yeah, I mean, obviously, uh logistics is a is a is a space that's filled with pressure and filled with variability.
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There's no question about that.
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And I I think that's been a constant throughout my career.
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Um, I do think that you know, in in the public world, um it's very important that you um that you that you execute consistently uh and that you're able to deliver and explain performance in a in a in a um in a in a significant way that the public that the public can understand.
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I think in a in a private equity world, um the tendency under pressure is to um is to potentially not be as forthright with your private equity partner, and that can create misalignment, and misalignment is the death sentence, right?
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The tendency, I think, in a public world is in order to try under pressure to meet quarterly expectations, uh, to get away from your operating disciplines and try to do things in order to save the quarter, if you will.
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And that usually has negative ramifications as well.
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Both are a little different.
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The timing is is is just a little different as well.
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And and I think the the mistakes that people make, um, while well-intentioned, you know, nonetheless, you can see it in a lot of public companies and you can see it in a lot of private equity companies, you know, those two phenomena.
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As I hear you share your your your experiences, I hear hints of a convergence, right?
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Where public companies are acting faster, private companies are becoming more structured.
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Do you think there's really a hybrid model emerging?
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Well, I hope so, right?
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I hope so.
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I think that's what we should all be aspiring for, right?
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You know, I I think that um certainly at Redwood, that's what we're trying to do.
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You know, Redwood has always been a very entrepreneurial company.
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And when I came in as CEO, the one thing I wanted to make sure we didn't lose was that entrepreneurial culture, that ability to be nimble, to be flexible, because I think that's more important now than it ever has been.
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And I think public companies are now seeing that as well.
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You do need um you need to have discipline, especially in a public world where consistency and predictability is so important.
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I think it's absolutely critical.
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At the same time, you can't become bureaucratic, right?
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You still have to be flexible, you have to be nimble, or you will fall behind the pace very, very quickly.
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And I think it's one of the biggest challenges that public companies have going forward is how do they become more nimble?
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And um, and that's that's that's going to be an interesting challenge.
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And I think as companies in the private equity sector grow, they do need to develop those disciplines that are much more common in a public enterprise.
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Yeah, no, I I I agree with you.
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I I really think there's there's best practices from both.
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Um I think that convergence creates value.
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But anyway, let's shift from who owns the business, which has been the conversation till now, on how the business really actually creates value, right?
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Because at the end, that's the model is really that that model of creating value is evolving as as fast, if not more, than just who owns the business.
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So for years, advantage came from scaling assets, right?
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And nowadays, I would argue that you know platforms and orchestration are the new battleground.
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What's your take on that?
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I think that's fair to say.
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I think that's fair to say.
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I mean, look, I think there's always going to be value in assets, right?
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You know, because we are in a physical world and we're moving physical goods, and somebody ultimately has to move those goods, right?
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So it's very, very important.
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But I think that as the supply chain has become more complex, um, people have started to understand that, you know, it's about more than price, it's about more than securing capacity, right?
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You really do need to orchestrate all of these complex pieces, bring them all together so that they all work together.
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Because, you know, it's the it's the uh weakest link in the chain.
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You know, it just takes one uh one area of failure, and the whole thing can really be massively disrupted.
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I think we certainly saw this during COVID.
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So I think that disruption, that lack of control that people experience during during COVID taught them that the supply chain needs to do more than just provide capacity.
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They really do need to orchestrate all those pieces for an outcome that provides competitive advantage for their business.
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Yeah.
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Now, on the other side, you know, how do you really distinguish a true logistic platform that is, you know, it has assets at the end from a company that is just layering technology into operations with that value creation?
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Can you discern that?
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Yeah, I think there's, you know, I think there's a lot more of the latter than the former, right?
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You know, to be honest with you.
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And I think we're especially seeing it with AI right now, right?
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You know, the typical, the typical uh projects that that that that folks are launching, I think really are very little more than layering AI on top of the business, right?
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And that that isn't a bad thing.
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It does provide information, it provides market intelligence, um, but at the same time, it doesn't generate the kind of benefits that the technology really could if it's truly operating within a platform.
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And and to me, you know, the the the proof is in the pudding, right?
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And the real question is, is the technology embedded in the workflow or is it separate?
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Are you in a workflow and then you jump into the technology and then you jump back out to the workflow?
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That's that's not embedded, right?
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That is not embedded.
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But I think it's much harder to embed technology into the workflow because the workflows need to be re-engineered.
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And a lot of customers and a lot of 3PLs for that matter really don't have necessarily the resources or the tools to make that happen in a very efficient manner.
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So I think we're getting there, uh, but I think it's still the exception, not the rule.
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At least my impression on Redwood is you know, you really have put effort on scaling those capabilities as much as, if not more, than scaling assets for the sake of doing it.
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Was there a moment that you realized that you said, hey, I need to do more this than and less than the other?
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Or well, for sure, right?
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I mean, absolutely.
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And and I think I had I had seen a little bit of that at Hub, uh, but but certainly, you know, at Redwood, I think that you know, we the company started out as a brokerage, right?
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As a as a non-asset player.
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And, you know, long before I got there, they did they did what many non-asset players do, and they started a trucking company, you know, and and the trucking company was fine and it was well run and and it produced some value for our customers, but there just wasn't a lot of value in scaling it.
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You know, if you added 10 drivers, you got you know 10 more loads a week, right?
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It was that kind of linear um scale, I think.
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Um and so that investment, while it did produce some value, it was limited value.
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And if the markets shifted and demand fell off, then then it became a liability.
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And that that is somewhat inherent in the nature of assets, I think, right?
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Now, you know, on the other hand, when when we um purchased a company called Eminent, which uh specialized in Oracle implementations, right?
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So we invested heavily in our integration capability, invested heavily in Redwood Connect, our no-code integration tool, and in uh capabilities uh that were expanded.
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What that did for us was it really opened up the entire Oracle uh ecosystem, the entire Oracle customer base uh to us as potential partners, right?
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So it wasn't a linear, uh it wasn't it wasn't a linear growth, it was exponential in terms of the opportunity that unfolded because of investing in that unique capability.
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You just can't get that kind of a pop, in my mind, out of assets.
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But like I said before, there's still there's still a lot of value in assets.
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I just think that the potential contribution and the risks um uh are not nearly what what you get when you're when you're really building scale from a capability perspective.
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So maybe just for context for for for the audience, so how would you define Redwood today?
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It's more it's more um asset-driven, technology-driven?
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I would say we are technology driven, absolutely.
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You know, we think of ourselves as bringing technology and execution together, right?
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Uh in a very unique way.
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You know, we operate on an open ecosystem, right?
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So, what it enables us to do is offer tremendous optionality to our customers and a lot of flexibility.
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You know, at the same time, we're not just a tech play.
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We don't believe that tech is the answer.
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The real, the real question is what do you do with the technology, not what is the technology?
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We think that's the driver.
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And that's a perfect lead to my last question in this section, which is you know, what do you think companies mainly get that digital transformation wrong today?
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Yeah, I just that, I think, right?
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I think we see so many companies who invest in technology or who go out and buy a TMS, you know, most of our customers are using maybe 20% of the TMS capabilities, right?
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And how many big builds have you seen on the logistics side with large public companies or even startups that spend millions of dollars on technology and they really don't end up with much to show for it, right?
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Um to us, the the big the big thing that you have to understand if you're gonna try to digitize is that it's about more than the tech.
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There's a whole um there's a whole planning, there's a foundation that has to be built around data and and tech structure.
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And then there's an even more laborious process of re-engineering the workflows so that you can truly become digitized.
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And and I think too often people spend millions of dollars on a TMS, they don't see results, and they don't understand why not.
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And that's because the foundation wasn't built and the work to really re-engineer the workflows wasn't done either, right?
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Not many customers or shippers or or you know, even three pills for that matter, are equipped to do that work on their own.
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That's thanks for your insight.
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That I that that's really insightful.
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So at the end, you know, companies define themselves either asset driven with technology or technology driven with assets.
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But once you you define the model, you then, especially as a CEO, you have to actually transform it and evolve it, right?
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And that's really where capital and discipline come into play.
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So, from your perspective, while you were the private equity environments linked to Redwood, what separates the companies that create real enterprise value from those that they're just growing?
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They're showing a top-land growth, but are they really creating value?
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What is the difference?
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Yeah, I mean, look, I think I think you know the growth is the easy part, right?
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You know, how many times have we seen companies come into our space with this sort of theory of I'm gonna grow to the point where I have scale, and then the scale is going to lead me to an industry leadership position.
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You know, to be honest, I've never seen that argument work, right?
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You know, I don't believe that's how you add value going in and buying business.
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It's very in a you know, in a world of automated bidding, it's very easy to do, and it's very easy to lose a lot of money doing that and also add very little value, right?
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I think if you're selling a commodity, you know, you are you have a weak value proposition, right?
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And and I believe that companies with a weak value proposition don't create enterprise value either.
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The two go hand in hand.
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So, from my perspective, when we're looking at businesses or when we're thinking about how is Redwood performing, what I want to see is how's the strength of our value proposition to our customers, right?
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And that means how many customers are are coming on?
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How many customers are really um compelled uh uh to become partners with us and and and willing to pay, you know, uh uh uh uh to compensate us, you know, for the value that we're creating, right?
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Um and so so to me, a company that's creating enterprise value is bringing on new customers, and then they're expanding those relationships with those customers.
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It isn't a one and done, it isn't a I just wanted in a bid and I've got it for a year.
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It becomes a true partnership.
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And we call that land and expand.
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So we can start with a customer and a certain segment of our value proposition, and then really demonstrate and expand that position with them by bringing value to them, right?
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And as a result, I think that that most of our customers come in and use multiple services over the course of time, and we're able to maintain very low attrition levels.
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So to me, a company that has low churn is developing it has a very strong value proposition, and that value proposition translates into long-term enterprise value.
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Yeah, that does make sense.
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Now, uh going back to your your early stages on Redwood, right?
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You come to Redwood, private equity is involved, only private equity wants to create speed of change, right?
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.400
That was one of the models of private equity.
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:45.920
So, but at the same time, it sometimes introduces risk.
00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:48.240
How uh how did you manage that?
00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:50.400
Well, what lessons do you learn from that?
00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.119
Yeah, it's um it's interesting for sure.
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:58.000
I mean, you know, typical private equity hold period is three to five years.
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:03.680
And at the same time, they're looking for anywhere from a 2x to a 4x return.
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:08.559
There's a lot that has to happen in three to five years to generate that kind of return.
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:10.720
There's absolutely no question about it.
00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:12.079
It can be a great thing.
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:16.960
It can be a great thing because there's no time to uh to waste.
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.359
You know, you really have to be productive.
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:22.400
Um, we have a saying private equity never sleeps, right?
00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:25.440
You know, I mean it's a constant, it's a it's a sprint, right?
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:28.960
That that that that does, I think, streamline decision making.
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:32.079
And that's a very powerful thing, and it's very important, right?
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:39.599
Um, and it it really um I think creates an alignment that can also be extremely powerful.
00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:52.640
And so, so in that sense, that sense of urgency, um, I think can be very, very positive, especially as you're competing against typically slower moving enterprises that are more of a public, you know, more of a public persona.
00:21:52.880 --> 00:22:04.559
Um uh but at the same time, there is the risk that you don't necessarily um Be as thorough in some of that decision making as you otherwise could be.
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:06.079
And I think that's the downside.
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:12.720
You can get uh a little bit uh a little bit too rushed in your decision making.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:15.200
And you have to you have to you have to be able to balance both.
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:18.400
That that that need for urgency at the same time, that need for discipline.
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:27.200
So let me just go slowly on a tanya because obviously you you hinted about the the different pace of public companies versus private equity back companies, right?
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:34.079
And that slowness, which is not necessarily slowness, I would say it's more uh deliberate managed expectations.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:40.559
You know, sometimes it's a leadership choice, but it could also be kind of a comfort choice from leadership, right?
00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:47.839
Your take, and I'm not I'm not quoting Hub to be clear, but your take on how the how the how what's your take on that?
00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:54.079
Because both, again, that convergence of models, you know, I think it's a blessing in disguise.
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:54.960
But what's your take?
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:56.799
Yeah, no, I look, I would agree with that.
00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:04.319
I think I think there is a natural deliberateness to uh to public to public entities because there's such a value on hitting expectations.
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:05.759
It's just so important.
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:12.480
They don't want, they don't want variability, you know, that there's just no uh there's no place for that, right?
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:17.920
You know, so I do think that you end up um being more deliberate in your strategy.
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:21.519
There's more of an educational process with the public that has to take place.
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:25.440
So I think shifting strategies is a little bit more difficult.
00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:34.400
Um and there's just a need for more discipline in the public space because the cost of errors is is is significant and it's truly an unforgiving place.
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:43.200
You know, so so I you look, I think, I think that um public entities uh like deliberate decision making.
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:50.079
They like deliberate executives and executives that are institutional in nature like public enterprises, right?
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:51.200
So the so the two.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:53.359
I I hope there's a convergence, right?
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:59.839
I hope that there's the best the best executive is institutional but also flexible and aggressive, right?
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:05.039
And uh it's hard to find both, but I like that that's I think there's value in both.
00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:14.319
So now, yeah, even with the right capital and strategy, execution at the end, you know, even more today runs through one lever, which is technology, right?
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:17.200
And there's more technology than ever in supply chain.
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:23.759
You and I you go through a trade show today, and it's even difficult to discern what's happening from technology perspective.
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:28.960
So with all that technology, why are outcomes still so inconsistent, right?
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:31.920
You have all this technology, but you see all kinds of results.
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:33.279
What's your take on that?
00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:41.440
Yeah, look, I think I think it goes back to the sort of previous point that that um it's not usually just a technology solution.
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:45.839
You know, I think that technology has enabled us to do some amazing things.
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:48.480
It hasn't made our world any less complex.
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.119
It's probably made our world more complex, right?
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:54.400
There's more variables now, there's more choices.
00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:59.519
Um our our supply chains are inherently more complex uh now.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:04.880
So I think that you're you're you're you're in a world that has more moving places, more variables.
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:18.319
The technology is is helping in some regards, but but at the same time, um it is too often viewed as a panacea and and as as if it's going to generate results, improvements on its own.
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:19.920
And that just isn't the case.
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:32.880
You know, I think you can look at so many instances of large technology builds that have great capabilities, seem like they're going to solve all kinds of problems, but don't deliver because, you know, because the workflows weren't modified it.
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:39.119
Because um because there wasn't the hard work to get the data infrastructure correct.
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:41.039
You know, all those things.
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:53.279
And so really what you've got, I think, is um progress being made, uh, but at the same time not enough to offset the additional complexities that are being inserted into the supply chain as it's evolved.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:02.880
Well, now on technology, where do you see the biggest on top opportunity to materially improve performance?
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:08.799
Is there one era specific, uh, and maybe logistics specific, given that that's your area of expertise?
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:09.920
So sure, yeah.
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:11.119
I mean, that's my world, right?
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:12.480
So that's what I would know about.
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:15.039
You know, look, I think there's all kinds of opportunities.
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:17.359
Our business is full of inefficiencies.
00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:21.839
Our bull, our business is full of um black holes, if you will, right?
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:23.359
You know, so I think it's really exciting.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:25.359
I don't think there's ever been a more exciting time.
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:28.000
There's never been more opportunity out there.
00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:38.480
You know, clearly, I think what a lot of people are talking about is process automation, and I think deploying AI to automate core processes, um, which is very exciting.
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:44.799
I mean, we have seen, you know, significant improvements at Redwood from a productivity perspective through process automation.
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:51.279
Last four years, we estimate about a 39% improvement in, for example, loads per day per dispatcher, right?
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:52.480
Those kinds of things, right?
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:54.400
So we are making real progress.
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:59.839
And there's still literally that's the tip of the iceberg, right, in that regard.
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:09.920
Um, but what gets me, I think, more excited really is what can happen with better decision making, whether it's automated decision making or facilitated decision making, right?
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:16.640
Like for me, my my human costs are about one-tenth of my cost of purchase transportation.
00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:30.319
So for every 1% of purchase transportation cost that I can improve or reduce through better decision making, I would need to bring a 10% reduction in sort of headcount to equal that.
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:38.880
So I love what we're doing in order to help all of our people and our customers make better decisions.
00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:41.440
So we're doing a lot on the pricing front.
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:43.200
We're doing a lot on modeling.
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:51.680
You know, we're building digital twins that are going to enable us to replicate our customers' operating environment on an ongoing basis.
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:56.079
So we can scenario test and we can try to figure out, okay, what's the right thing to do here?
00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:59.119
If we change this and we change that, I call it a what-if machine.
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:00.559
You know, we make all these changes.
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:06.079
What's the net impact on cost efficiency, on service efficiency, all those kinds of things?
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:20.880
When technology can can uh allow us to do that, you know, when that's the kind of work that our people are doing instead of you know booking appointments, you know, I think that that the that the the value creation is just is just almost limitless.
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:26.480
I I I love your pragmatic perspective that at the end technology needs to translate into execution, right?
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:27.920
So which I fully agree.
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:29.599
So it's not this irrelevant.
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:33.200
So so now so just recapping a little bit.
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:39.599
So so the ownership models are converging, platforms are rising, technology is everywhere, right?
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:44.480
So what ultimately defines a winning supply chain organization?
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:46.720
Yeah, yeah, that's a good question.
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:47.519
That's a good question.
00:28:47.680 --> 00:29:02.000
I mean, look, I think I think at the end of the day, um everybody that's working in supply chain is trying to create competitive advantage, real value uh for the company, right?
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:04.000
For the for the for the shipper.
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:14.000
Um, really trying to um do more than just procure well, do more than than secure capacity, right?
00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:19.680
Um I think really winning is is working hand in glove with the business, right?
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:28.960
And being able to offer optionality, um, to offer certainly deliver on on the promises, right?
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:34.079
There's a there's a real heavy necessity for strong consistency, right?
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:43.039
At the same time, I think there's a very real, you know, the supply chains that that win in the future are gonna be very adaptable, they're gonna be very flexible because we're gonna be seeing lots of change.
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:48.720
And I think we saw in COVID the limitations of many supply chains that that lacked that.
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:56.400
The supply chains that won were the supply chains that could adapt uh to a different and unforeseeable environment.
00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:58.400
And I think that that's gonna be true in the future.
00:29:58.480 --> 00:29:59.759
Those are the supply chains that win.
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:08.480
The ones that are really able to deliver competitive advantage under a variety of operating circumstances and change dynamics.
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:10.559
So I fully agree.
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:14.799
But at the same time, you know, we live in a very volatile world and network, right?
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:22.960
And and how do you scale that execution in a very with this high level of volatility?
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:33.519
How do you think Yeah, I look, I think I I think it it is it is challenging, you know, to be able to, you know, scale so so to be able to deal with growth, right?
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:43.519
And and become better, right, not worse, and be able to deal with all of um all of the variables that are constantly coming at you in that in that additional complexity.
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:47.759
So to me, uh what we are real believers in integration, right?
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:50.799
For us, you know, we are an integration platform.
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:57.759
We believe that that you can't manage something um that isn't integrated into your workflows and into your systems, right?
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:17.599
And so so we believe that that the secret to scale and the secret to dealing with complex operating environments that are constantly changing is being deeply integrated with the business and deeply integrated with your partners' data sets and the technologies that are out there that can help you deal with all of those variables.
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:21.440
So so that's that's where we start with all of this.
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:31.279
And you know, from there, of course, you know, you need to, uh in a highly complex world, you need to um really think through your workflows, right?
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:37.359
Uh and really think about how am I going to perform if I am 20% larger, 25% larger.
00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:47.839
Am I gonna have to throw people at it, or can I use technology to decouple, right, you know, between between volume and workload on my human resources?
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:50.160
And um it's a challenge.
00:31:50.240 --> 00:32:17.119
I think there's no question about it, but um, but I do think that there's um that that that we're now at a place from a technology perspective, um, where you can scale um even in a highly complex world very effectively, and actually end up at the end of the day with that sort of data flywheel um with a better service, with a more consistent uh execution capability um than you did going in.
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:19.279
And I think that's what we're all striving for.
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:20.880
Thank you.
00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:25.839
I think that that's an I I I love your your your response to this one.
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:42.799
So uh, you know, we're we're coming to the end of our conversation, but you know, one thing that you know, I've gotten a lot of feedback about the part of this conversation that people enjoy a lot is when I'm able to you know get the human side of the people that I talk with and share their insights.
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:52.640
So if you indulge me, I'll do a quick rapid fire QA just to share a little bit about that and just to hear a bit about about Mark Jager, the guy, not executive, right?
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:57.119
So so one capability every supply chain leader must build now.
00:32:58.240 --> 00:32:59.279
Uh flexibility.
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.359
I really think flexibility, right?
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:04.400
I I think it's absolutely the critical skill.
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:06.400
And um, you just gotta have it.
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:13.680
And I I think we are too we we can get too institutional in supply chain and too locked down, and that's just not the future, right?
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:16.160
We it's all about being able to adapt.
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:19.920
So I'm gonna I'm gonna give you two answers to the next one.
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:23.920
So AI, is it overhyped or underutilized?
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:24.720
Why?
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:28.400
Well, I'd say both, but I can't choose both, I suppose.
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:30.880
Um look, I would say underutilized right now.
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:32.880
I mean, look, the hype cycle is crazy.
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:35.599
I don't think I've ever seen anything with that kind of hype.
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:38.400
At the same time, I don't think I've ever seen anything with this kind of potential.
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:53.279
So I think if we look in 10 years, I don't think we'll feel like it was overhyped as much as we will look at how we were using AI and really consider it to be really so nascent, right?
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:54.960
Like really so early stage.
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:58.400
I think we'll be using AI in fundamentally different ways.
00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:00.720
It'll be much more pervasive.
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:09.599
Um, and so I think in that sense, the level of utilization is going to be uh uh you know exponential, right?
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:13.760
Whereas, you know, at some point I think it'll come pretty close to hitting the hype cycle.
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:16.000
So I've got to go with underutilized at this point.
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:20.239
So um we talk about platform, we talk about assets.
00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:23.840
Which one creates more value over the next decade?
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:31.440
Well, um, so look, I as I said before, I think I believe that assets create tremendous value because they are a part of the world.
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:33.199
We're a platform company.
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:42.000
I gotta go with platform on that one for sure, because I think that that um that really, you know, these platforms get more and more valuable.
00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:51.280
They're producing more and more value as they grow and as they continue to become a part of the broader supply chain uh world, right?
00:34:51.440 --> 00:35:03.920
So to me, these platforms are still early stage, and the the need for orchestration uh that these platforms can facilitate um is going to really grow tremendously over the course of time.
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:07.039
Whereas assets will continue to be somewhat linear.
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:10.480
Maybe a last one, and and I fully agree.
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:16.079
I think at the end, over the next 10 years, probably platforms but assets enabled for sure.
00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:24.239
So the which is the biggest execution mistake you see repeating over and over again nowadays?
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:29.039
I think the the biggest execution mistake we see is not building the foundation, right?
00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:31.039
That's that's really necessary, right?
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:46.639
And we have, you know, um it's it's good for us because it's it's a core competency for us, but but we see so many, so many shippers um who even large sophisticated shippers who who don't have, for example, harmonized data, right?
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:50.320
And so they're really operating in multiple silos.
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:56.880
They they they have a lot of data that they can't really use because it's apples to oranges, right?
00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:02.559
And so so to me, the biggest mistake that we see is folks not building that foundation before they start, right?
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:03.519
I mean, that's the work.
00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:14.960
You know, you've got to have that foundation to innovate um meaningfully, you've got to have that that solid foundation across the entire organization, not broken out into silos.
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:22.960
You know, uh just to wrap it up, you know, one last question, and I tend to ask everyone, all my guests, this question, you know.
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:33.440
Now, as I reflect on everything we discussed today, so converging of public and private models, the shift towards platforms, the role of technology and capital.
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:46.159
What is one belief or mindset shift that leaders must adopt or strengthen now to successfully navigate the transformational momentum that we're leaving in the supply chain space?
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:47.840
Well, that's a great question.
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:49.679
I mean, there are many challenges.
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:51.519
I think there's no no doubt about that.
00:36:51.840 --> 00:37:01.280
To me, what really uh everyone should be mindful of is are they building an organization that can embrace change, right?
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:15.599
An organization that can um that can recognize um where issues are occurring uh and and and and work in a constructive way to improve, right?
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:19.920
To get better, to bring on new technology, to bring on new partners.
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:24.639
You know, the the good performance of today isn't going to be good enough tomorrow, right?
00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:32.800
And so I think we all have to be ready for a pace and level of change that we haven't seen in our uh careers.
00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:47.119
And and our organizations need to be capable and um uh eager to undertake that kind of change because because I think I think that that it's coming, and and the people that win are the people that are going to be able to adapt to that.
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:50.400
I have to ask, you know, one last question.
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:55.199
You know, I hear your energy and your passion on the topic and the discussion over the last few minutes.
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:58.800
And you know, what keeps your momentum going all this time?
00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:01.440
You know, hopefully you have you have a lot of energy.
00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:03.440
So what keeps you going, you personally?
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:04.400
Well, I love it.
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:06.239
I mean, I I love the business, you know.
00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:07.280
I I love our team.
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.199
We have this amazing team at Redwood.
00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:13.280
They're they're very innovative, they're high energy, you know, they're fun.
00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:14.719
I love our customers.
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:16.960
I love the fact that we're solving problems, you know.
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:22.800
So so to me, I've been in the business now for I guess 34 years, something like that.
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:28.400
And it's always been it, it's always been full of challenges, uh, but full of great people.
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:31.840
And it's interesting intellectually, you know.
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:40.639
I I uh uh I just uh to me it's it it it's it's such an enjoyable uh part of my life, right?
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:44.320
That that uh I look forward to going to work, you know, it's it's not a problem.
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:45.920
So that's that's awesome.
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:49.280
You know, you know, uh as I reflect on the conversation, right?
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:57.840
You know one powerful reality comes to mind, you know, the industry may debate public or private, assets or platform, technology operations.
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:01.280
But at the end, the real differentiator is probably simpler, right?
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:06.800
It's the ability to execute consistently, at scale, under pressure.
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:09.360
And the future won't belong to one model.
00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:10.239
I think we discussed it.
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:20.800
It will belong to those that can integrate some discipline from the public markets, the agility of private markets, uh, and the power of platform-driven ecosystems, right?
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:28.639
Uh at the end, supply chains are not just infrastructure, they are, from my perspective, the performance engine of companies.
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:32.559
So I just have to say thank you for joining us, Mark.
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:35.679
I appreciate your it was uh it was a pleasure having you.
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:39.199
I'll give you the last word if you want to have any any final remarks.
00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:41.679
Oh, I would just say thank you very much for having me.
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:42.639
It's it's been great.
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:49.679
I really enjoyed it, and um appreciate the opportunity to to talk about Redwood and talk about the industry.
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:53.280
And um thank you for uh thank you for having me.
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:54.800
Thanks for joining.
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:55.519
I appreciate it.
00:39:55.599 --> 00:40:03.679
So, to our listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share with fellow operators, innovators, and leaders across the supply chain ecosystem.
00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:11.599
I'm Luis Olana, and this is the momentum flow, where clarity, capital, and conviction keep supply chains and leaders moving forward.
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:16.800
Until next time, stay curious, stay connected, and keep the momentum flowing.
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:17.679
Thank you.
00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:14.160
Welcome to the Momentum Plot Podcast, where ideas, innovations, and experiences are sure to create a continuous stream of inspiration and insight.
00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:27.440
Join me, your host, Lurizolana, a supply chain expert and investor, as I uncover how visionary founders, operators, and leaders are spotting opportunities, sparking innovation, and scaling profitable growth.
00:00:27.679 --> 00:00:37.359
From plan to cash, I bring real-world experience and an investor's eye to reveal how clarity, capital, and conviction feel sustainable growth.
00:00:37.600 --> 00:00:40.399
Tune in and let's keep the momentum flow going.
00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:52.880
So today's conversation sits at the intersection of capital, execution, and technology.
00:00:53.039 --> 00:01:02.399
I'm joined by Mark Jaeger, CEO of Rebu Logistics, who has also been a private equity advisor, bringing a rare dual lens across operating and investing.
00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:07.040
What makes the discussion timely is a simple but powerful shift.
00:01:07.200 --> 00:01:18.079
Whether public or private companies, asset heavy or platform-driven, the market is rewarding one clear thing: consistent, scalable performance in an unstable world.
00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:20.319
Mark, great to have you here.
00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:22.079
Welcome to the Momentum Thought.
00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:23.920
Thanks for having me, Luis.
00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:25.840
It's a pleasure to have you, Mark.
00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:30.480
So to start, why don't you share a bit about your personal journey?
00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:34.799
You know, you have your early days in Indiana University, Georgetown.
00:01:34.959 --> 00:01:38.400
You had a long stint at a public company like Hubgroup.
00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:40.799
You were the CEO and board member there.
00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:47.920
And the last decade you pivoted to the private sector with Redwood, and you had a tenure in advisory in the private equity world.
00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:50.560
So why don't you share a little bit about your journey?
00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:52.799
Yeah, that that certainly covers it.
00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:54.079
No question about that.
00:01:54.239 --> 00:02:03.840
I did go to Indiana and went on to Georgetown Law from there, uh, practiced law for a couple of years, and um came into the logistics space uh with Hub Group.
00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:13.360
Uh, as you may or may not know, my parents started the business back in 1971 in a single office uh with uh with no windows and uh built the company from there.
00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:16.080
So I came back uh into the fold.
00:02:16.159 --> 00:02:28.240
Uh I was with Hub for 23 years, uh, a lot of different roles, you know, everything from oh general counsel work to uh to uh heading sales.
00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:34.400
Uh my last position there was president and chief operating officer, and I was on the board of Hub Group as well.
00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:37.599
You know, after that, I really wanted to do something more entrepreneurial.
00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:47.120
And um I managed to find a private equity partner, CI Capital, and we set out on the path of building a billion-dollar platform uh in the logistics space.
00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:49.199
And that was back in 2016.
00:02:49.439 --> 00:03:00.319
Um we purchased uh Redwood Logistics and brought it together with a company called Simplified Logistics in uh 2018, and it's really been a run ever since there.
00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:07.680
Uh I am the CEO uh of Redwood Logistics and also sit on the board at this time.
00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:09.039
So it's been a great journey.
00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:15.680
It's been a fun journey, and it's been very interesting to see both the public and the private equity world uh firsthand.
00:03:16.159 --> 00:03:17.039
Yeah, absolutely.
00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:25.599
I I think you know, from really a family-owned business to public company to then private, it's definitely an interesting conversation.
00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:27.360
I'm sure we're gonna have a great conversation.
00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:36.240
So why don't we start by by you contrasting a little bit too clear about different phases of your professional career, right?
00:03:36.319 --> 00:03:40.240
You again, you've operated across public and private environments.
00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:40.719
Yep.
00:03:40.960 --> 00:03:48.080
What is fundamentally different between how supply chain strategies shaped in a public company versus a private company?
00:03:48.479 --> 00:03:48.719
Sure.
00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:59.439
I think, you know, I think there are many commonalities about developing and implementing and modifying strategy in those two environments, because you know, you are both in the logistics space.
00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:03.759
But I will say I think there are really some very significant differences.
00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:17.839
And and given my brothers, I have to say that when you talk about developing and implementing and modifying strategy, it's it's much easier in a private equity world uh than in a public company world.
00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:26.879
Um I think that that um the interface with a private equity partner is something that that most folks are much more comfortable with.
00:04:26.959 --> 00:04:30.560
You know, it's a dialogue, it's an ongoing discussion.
00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:35.759
In a good private equity relationship, there's alignment about how to create enterprise value.
00:04:35.920 --> 00:04:54.240
So, you know, in my experience with our two private equity partners, CI Capital and then AEA, um, they were really helpful in helping us develop and implement and and and modify those uh you know uh strategic choices, right?
00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:59.279
I think it's a very difficult world and a very different world in in the public space.
00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:12.720
You know, you you just can't have that kind of dialogue that you get in a PE space as you get uh uh as you're trying to talk through strategy and especially trying to modify strategy in a public world.
00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:17.759
So as an operator could you wear, so what do you think people really misunderstand that?
00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:26.000
The the the public market pressure versus the private equity expectations, which tend to be higher and the returns and that, right?
00:05:26.079 --> 00:05:31.199
So what do where do people misunderstand, the operators misunderstand the difference?
00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:34.800
Yeah, I I think there's no doubt that both have high expectations, right?
00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:36.879
And there's and there's a heavy price for failure.
00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:38.560
There's no question about that.
00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:49.199
But you know, as an operator, I think that uh what a lot of people don't understand in coming into the public sector is how important it is to set expectations.
00:05:49.839 --> 00:06:00.480
And it really is it's an art, um, and it really requires tremendous discipline and a lot of foresight and a certain amount of diplomacy as well.
00:06:00.639 --> 00:06:05.040
Um, I will say that at Hub, when we became public, we were very entrepreneurial.
00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:06.319
It was a great company.
00:06:06.560 --> 00:06:11.120
I think you always believe you're going to perform and you're always going to deliver.
00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:15.600
But in a public sector, there's really no room for aspiration, right?
00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:17.040
Unless you're Elon Musk.
00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:20.319
Uh, I think you really need to have a disciplined approach.
00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:24.879
You need to set expectations, and then you need to deliver on those expectations.
00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:34.160
You can have a great quarter, what feels like a great quarter in the public sector, but if you miss by a penny, you know, the impact on the stock price can be can be profound.
00:06:34.319 --> 00:06:51.120
And so there's just such an importance to set and manage those expectations that I think a lot of folks who come from an operating background or who have built a company uh just don't understand how an important part of value creation that is in a public world.
00:06:51.600 --> 00:07:01.360
So in both environments, I guess, you know, there's um you need to execute on a very disciplined way under pressure.
00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:08.560
So from your experience, any learning that you can share of executing under pressure.
00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:16.240
Yeah, I mean, obviously, uh logistics is a is a is a space that's filled with pressure and filled with variability.
00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:17.519
There's no question about that.
00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:21.120
And I I think that's been a constant throughout my career.
00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:43.120
Um, I do think that you know, in in the public world, um it's very important that you um that you that you execute consistently uh and that you're able to deliver and explain performance in a in a in a um in a in a significant way that the public that the public can understand.
00:07:43.360 --> 00:08:01.040
I think in a in a private equity world, um the tendency under pressure is to um is to potentially not be as forthright with your private equity partner, and that can create misalignment, and misalignment is the death sentence, right?
00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:16.000
The tendency, I think, in a public world is in order to try under pressure to meet quarterly expectations, uh, to get away from your operating disciplines and try to do things in order to save the quarter, if you will.
00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:19.040
And that usually has negative ramifications as well.
00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:20.240
Both are a little different.
00:08:20.399 --> 00:08:22.959
The timing is is is just a little different as well.
00:08:23.040 --> 00:08:37.679
And and I think the the mistakes that people make, um, while well-intentioned, you know, nonetheless, you can see it in a lot of public companies and you can see it in a lot of private equity companies, you know, those two phenomena.
00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:44.879
As I hear you share your your your experiences, I hear hints of a convergence, right?
00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:49.919
Where public companies are acting faster, private companies are becoming more structured.
00:08:50.159 --> 00:08:53.519
Do you think there's really a hybrid model emerging?
00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:55.120
Well, I hope so, right?
00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:55.600
I hope so.
00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:58.080
I think that's what we should all be aspiring for, right?
00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:02.799
You know, I I think that um certainly at Redwood, that's what we're trying to do.
00:09:02.879 --> 00:09:06.399
You know, Redwood has always been a very entrepreneurial company.
00:09:06.559 --> 00:09:19.279
And when I came in as CEO, the one thing I wanted to make sure we didn't lose was that entrepreneurial culture, that ability to be nimble, to be flexible, because I think that's more important now than it ever has been.
00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:22.559
And I think public companies are now seeing that as well.
00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:30.639
You do need um you need to have discipline, especially in a public world where consistency and predictability is so important.
00:09:30.799 --> 00:09:32.080
I think it's absolutely critical.
00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:34.960
At the same time, you can't become bureaucratic, right?
00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:40.159
You still have to be flexible, you have to be nimble, or you will fall behind the pace very, very quickly.
00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:46.080
And I think it's one of the biggest challenges that public companies have going forward is how do they become more nimble?
00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:49.519
And um, and that's that's that's going to be an interesting challenge.
00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:58.399
And I think as companies in the private equity sector grow, they do need to develop those disciplines that are much more common in a public enterprise.
00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:01.039
Yeah, no, I I I agree with you.
00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:04.960
I I really think there's there's best practices from both.
00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:08.080
Um I think that convergence creates value.
00:10:08.240 --> 00:10:15.679
But anyway, let's shift from who owns the business, which has been the conversation till now, on how the business really actually creates value, right?
00:10:15.759 --> 00:10:25.120
Because at the end, that's the model is really that that model of creating value is evolving as as fast, if not more, than just who owns the business.
00:10:25.360 --> 00:10:30.480
So for years, advantage came from scaling assets, right?
00:10:30.879 --> 00:10:38.720
And nowadays, I would argue that you know platforms and orchestration are the new battleground.
00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:40.799
What's your take on that?
00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:42.399
I think that's fair to say.
00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:43.360
I think that's fair to say.
00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:46.240
I mean, look, I think there's always going to be value in assets, right?
00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:52.559
You know, because we are in a physical world and we're moving physical goods, and somebody ultimately has to move those goods, right?
00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:54.159
So it's very, very important.
00:10:54.399 --> 00:11:07.679
But I think that as the supply chain has become more complex, um, people have started to understand that, you know, it's about more than price, it's about more than securing capacity, right?
00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:15.279
You really do need to orchestrate all of these complex pieces, bring them all together so that they all work together.
00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:18.720
Because, you know, it's the it's the uh weakest link in the chain.
00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:26.399
You know, it just takes one uh one area of failure, and the whole thing can really be massively disrupted.
00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:28.960
I think we certainly saw this during COVID.
00:11:29.120 --> 00:11:39.039
So I think that disruption, that lack of control that people experience during during COVID taught them that the supply chain needs to do more than just provide capacity.
00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:45.600
They really do need to orchestrate all those pieces for an outcome that provides competitive advantage for their business.
00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:46.320
Yeah.
00:11:46.559 --> 00:12:02.320
Now, on the other side, you know, how do you really distinguish a true logistic platform that is, you know, it has assets at the end from a company that is just layering technology into operations with that value creation?
00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:04.480
Can you discern that?
00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:08.799
Yeah, I think there's, you know, I think there's a lot more of the latter than the former, right?
00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:10.159
You know, to be honest with you.
00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:13.279
And I think we're especially seeing it with AI right now, right?
00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:25.120
You know, the typical, the typical uh projects that that that that folks are launching, I think really are very little more than layering AI on top of the business, right?
00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:26.960
And that that isn't a bad thing.
00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:38.720
It does provide information, it provides market intelligence, um, but at the same time, it doesn't generate the kind of benefits that the technology really could if it's truly operating within a platform.
00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:42.960
And and to me, you know, the the the proof is in the pudding, right?
00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:49.360
And the real question is, is the technology embedded in the workflow or is it separate?
00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:54.879
Are you in a workflow and then you jump into the technology and then you jump back out to the workflow?
00:12:54.960 --> 00:12:56.720
That's that's not embedded, right?
00:12:56.799 --> 00:12:57.840
That is not embedded.
00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:03.679
But I think it's much harder to embed technology into the workflow because the workflows need to be re-engineered.
00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:12.320
And a lot of customers and a lot of 3PLs for that matter really don't have necessarily the resources or the tools to make that happen in a very efficient manner.
00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:17.039
So I think we're getting there, uh, but I think it's still the exception, not the rule.
00:13:17.759 --> 00:13:30.399
At least my impression on Redwood is you know, you really have put effort on scaling those capabilities as much as, if not more, than scaling assets for the sake of doing it.
00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:36.080
Was there a moment that you realized that you said, hey, I need to do more this than and less than the other?
00:13:36.240 --> 00:13:38.320
Or well, for sure, right?
00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:39.360
I mean, absolutely.
00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:48.159
And and I think I had I had seen a little bit of that at Hub, uh, but but certainly, you know, at Redwood, I think that you know, we the company started out as a brokerage, right?
00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:50.480
As a as a non-asset player.
00:13:50.720 --> 00:14:07.200
And, you know, long before I got there, they did they did what many non-asset players do, and they started a trucking company, you know, and and the trucking company was fine and it was well run and and it produced some value for our customers, but there just wasn't a lot of value in scaling it.
00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:11.440
You know, if you added 10 drivers, you got you know 10 more loads a week, right?
00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:15.679
It was that kind of linear um scale, I think.
00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:21.679
Um and so that investment, while it did produce some value, it was limited value.
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:27.039
And if the markets shifted and demand fell off, then then it became a liability.
00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:31.679
And that that is somewhat inherent in the nature of assets, I think, right?
00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:41.200
Now, you know, on the other hand, when when we um purchased a company called Eminent, which uh specialized in Oracle implementations, right?
00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:53.679
So we invested heavily in our integration capability, invested heavily in Redwood Connect, our no-code integration tool, and in uh capabilities uh that were expanded.
00:14:53.840 --> 00:15:04.639
What that did for us was it really opened up the entire Oracle uh ecosystem, the entire Oracle customer base uh to us as potential partners, right?
00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:16.000
So it wasn't a linear, uh it wasn't it wasn't a linear growth, it was exponential in terms of the opportunity that unfolded because of investing in that unique capability.
00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:20.399
You just can't get that kind of a pop, in my mind, out of assets.
00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:23.519
But like I said before, there's still there's still a lot of value in assets.
00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:34.879
I just think that the potential contribution and the risks um uh are not nearly what what you get when you're when you're really building scale from a capability perspective.
00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:40.159
So maybe just for context for for for the audience, so how would you define Redwood today?
00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:44.879
It's more it's more um asset-driven, technology-driven?
00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:48.000
I would say we are technology driven, absolutely.
00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:52.720
You know, we think of ourselves as bringing technology and execution together, right?
00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:54.320
Uh in a very unique way.
00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:56.720
You know, we operate on an open ecosystem, right?
00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:04.000
So, what it enables us to do is offer tremendous optionality to our customers and a lot of flexibility.
00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:06.879
You know, at the same time, we're not just a tech play.
00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:09.200
We don't believe that tech is the answer.
00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:14.480
The real, the real question is what do you do with the technology, not what is the technology?
00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:15.600
We think that's the driver.
00:16:15.919 --> 00:16:25.039
And that's a perfect lead to my last question in this section, which is you know, what do you think companies mainly get that digital transformation wrong today?
00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:27.279
Yeah, I just that, I think, right?
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:40.240
I think we see so many companies who invest in technology or who go out and buy a TMS, you know, most of our customers are using maybe 20% of the TMS capabilities, right?
00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:52.480
And how many big builds have you seen on the logistics side with large public companies or even startups that spend millions of dollars on technology and they really don't end up with much to show for it, right?
00:16:52.720 --> 00:17:00.960
Um to us, the the big the big thing that you have to understand if you're gonna try to digitize is that it's about more than the tech.
00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:09.519
There's a whole um there's a whole planning, there's a foundation that has to be built around data and and tech structure.
00:17:09.680 --> 00:17:17.200
And then there's an even more laborious process of re-engineering the workflows so that you can truly become digitized.
00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:24.319
And and I think too often people spend millions of dollars on a TMS, they don't see results, and they don't understand why not.
00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:31.279
And that's because the foundation wasn't built and the work to really re-engineer the workflows wasn't done either, right?
00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:38.079
Not many customers or shippers or or you know, even three pills for that matter, are equipped to do that work on their own.
00:17:38.960 --> 00:17:40.319
That's thanks for your insight.
00:17:40.400 --> 00:17:41.839
That I that that's really insightful.
00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:49.119
So at the end, you know, companies define themselves either asset driven with technology or technology driven with assets.
00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:56.559
But once you you define the model, you then, especially as a CEO, you have to actually transform it and evolve it, right?
00:17:56.640 --> 00:18:00.000
And that's really where capital and discipline come into play.
00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:12.960
So, from your perspective, while you were the private equity environments linked to Redwood, what separates the companies that create real enterprise value from those that they're just growing?
00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:15.920
They're showing a top-land growth, but are they really creating value?
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:17.039
What is the difference?
00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:20.559
Yeah, I mean, look, I think I think you know the growth is the easy part, right?
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:33.599
You know, how many times have we seen companies come into our space with this sort of theory of I'm gonna grow to the point where I have scale, and then the scale is going to lead me to an industry leadership position.
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:37.279
You know, to be honest, I've never seen that argument work, right?
00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:42.480
You know, I don't believe that's how you add value going in and buying business.
00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:52.799
It's very in a you know, in a world of automated bidding, it's very easy to do, and it's very easy to lose a lot of money doing that and also add very little value, right?
00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:59.119
I think if you're selling a commodity, you know, you are you have a weak value proposition, right?
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:05.119
And and I believe that companies with a weak value proposition don't create enterprise value either.
00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:06.880
The two go hand in hand.
00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:17.839
So, from my perspective, when we're looking at businesses or when we're thinking about how is Redwood performing, what I want to see is how's the strength of our value proposition to our customers, right?
00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:20.799
And that means how many customers are are coming on?
00:19:21.359 --> 00:19:37.039
How many customers are really um compelled uh uh to become partners with us and and and willing to pay, you know, uh uh uh uh to compensate us, you know, for the value that we're creating, right?
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:47.359
Um and so so to me, a company that's creating enterprise value is bringing on new customers, and then they're expanding those relationships with those customers.
00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:51.440
It isn't a one and done, it isn't a I just wanted in a bid and I've got it for a year.
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:53.039
It becomes a true partnership.
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:54.960
And we call that land and expand.
00:19:55.039 --> 00:20:05.680
So we can start with a customer and a certain segment of our value proposition, and then really demonstrate and expand that position with them by bringing value to them, right?
00:20:06.160 --> 00:20:15.039
And as a result, I think that that most of our customers come in and use multiple services over the course of time, and we're able to maintain very low attrition levels.
00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:26.960
So to me, a company that has low churn is developing it has a very strong value proposition, and that value proposition translates into long-term enterprise value.
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:28.880
Yeah, that does make sense.
00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:33.279
Now, uh going back to your your early stages on Redwood, right?
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:39.519
You come to Redwood, private equity is involved, only private equity wants to create speed of change, right?
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.400
That was one of the models of private equity.
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:45.920
So, but at the same time, it sometimes introduces risk.
00:20:46.400 --> 00:20:48.240
How uh how did you manage that?
00:20:48.319 --> 00:20:50.400
Well, what lessons do you learn from that?
00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.119
Yeah, it's um it's interesting for sure.
00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:58.000
I mean, you know, typical private equity hold period is three to five years.
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:03.680
And at the same time, they're looking for anywhere from a 2x to a 4x return.
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:08.559
There's a lot that has to happen in three to five years to generate that kind of return.
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:10.720
There's absolutely no question about it.
00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:12.079
It can be a great thing.
00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:16.960
It can be a great thing because there's no time to uh to waste.
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.359
You know, you really have to be productive.
00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:22.400
Um, we have a saying private equity never sleeps, right?
00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:25.440
You know, I mean it's a constant, it's a it's a sprint, right?
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:28.960
That that that that does, I think, streamline decision making.
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:32.079
And that's a very powerful thing, and it's very important, right?
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:39.599
Um, and it it really um I think creates an alignment that can also be extremely powerful.
00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:52.640
And so, so in that sense, that sense of urgency, um, I think can be very, very positive, especially as you're competing against typically slower moving enterprises that are more of a public, you know, more of a public persona.
00:21:52.880 --> 00:22:04.559
Um uh but at the same time, there is the risk that you don't necessarily um Be as thorough in some of that decision making as you otherwise could be.
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:06.079
And I think that's the downside.
00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:12.720
You can get uh a little bit uh a little bit too rushed in your decision making.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:15.200
And you have to you have to you have to be able to balance both.
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:18.400
That that that need for urgency at the same time, that need for discipline.
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:27.200
So let me just go slowly on a tanya because obviously you you hinted about the the different pace of public companies versus private equity back companies, right?
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:34.079
And that slowness, which is not necessarily slowness, I would say it's more uh deliberate managed expectations.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:40.559
You know, sometimes it's a leadership choice, but it could also be kind of a comfort choice from leadership, right?
00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:47.839
Your take, and I'm not I'm not quoting Hub to be clear, but your take on how the how the how what's your take on that?
00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:54.079
Because both, again, that convergence of models, you know, I think it's a blessing in disguise.
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:54.960
But what's your take?
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:56.799
Yeah, no, I look, I would agree with that.
00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:04.319
I think I think there is a natural deliberateness to uh to public to public entities because there's such a value on hitting expectations.
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:05.759
It's just so important.
00:23:06.000 --> 00:23:12.480
They don't want, they don't want variability, you know, that there's just no uh there's no place for that, right?
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:17.920
You know, so I do think that you end up um being more deliberate in your strategy.
00:23:18.079 --> 00:23:21.519
There's more of an educational process with the public that has to take place.
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:25.440
So I think shifting strategies is a little bit more difficult.
00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:34.400
Um and there's just a need for more discipline in the public space because the cost of errors is is is significant and it's truly an unforgiving place.
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:43.200
You know, so so I you look, I think, I think that um public entities uh like deliberate decision making.
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:50.079
They like deliberate executives and executives that are institutional in nature like public enterprises, right?
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:51.200
So the so the two.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:53.359
I I hope there's a convergence, right?
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:59.839
I hope that there's the best the best executive is institutional but also flexible and aggressive, right?
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:05.039
And uh it's hard to find both, but I like that that's I think there's value in both.
00:24:05.119 --> 00:24:14.319
So now, yeah, even with the right capital and strategy, execution at the end, you know, even more today runs through one lever, which is technology, right?
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:17.200
And there's more technology than ever in supply chain.
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:23.759
You and I you go through a trade show today, and it's even difficult to discern what's happening from technology perspective.
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:28.960
So with all that technology, why are outcomes still so inconsistent, right?
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:31.920
You have all this technology, but you see all kinds of results.
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:33.279
What's your take on that?
00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:41.440
Yeah, look, I think I think it goes back to the sort of previous point that that um it's not usually just a technology solution.
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:45.839
You know, I think that technology has enabled us to do some amazing things.
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:48.480
It hasn't made our world any less complex.
00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:51.119
It's probably made our world more complex, right?
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:54.400
There's more variables now, there's more choices.
00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:59.519
Um our our supply chains are inherently more complex uh now.
00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:04.880
So I think that you're you're you're you're in a world that has more moving places, more variables.
00:25:05.119 --> 00:25:18.319
The technology is is helping in some regards, but but at the same time, um it is too often viewed as a panacea and and as as if it's going to generate results, improvements on its own.
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:19.920
And that just isn't the case.
00:25:20.079 --> 00:25:32.880
You know, I think you can look at so many instances of large technology builds that have great capabilities, seem like they're going to solve all kinds of problems, but don't deliver because, you know, because the workflows weren't modified it.
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:39.119
Because um because there wasn't the hard work to get the data infrastructure correct.
00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:41.039
You know, all those things.
00:25:41.279 --> 00:25:53.279
And so really what you've got, I think, is um progress being made, uh, but at the same time not enough to offset the additional complexities that are being inserted into the supply chain as it's evolved.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:26:02.880
Well, now on technology, where do you see the biggest on top opportunity to materially improve performance?
00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:08.799
Is there one era specific, uh, and maybe logistics specific, given that that's your area of expertise?
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:09.920
So sure, yeah.
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:11.119
I mean, that's my world, right?
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:12.480
So that's what I would know about.
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:15.039
You know, look, I think there's all kinds of opportunities.
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:17.359
Our business is full of inefficiencies.
00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:21.839
Our bull, our business is full of um black holes, if you will, right?
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:23.359
You know, so I think it's really exciting.
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:25.359
I don't think there's ever been a more exciting time.
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:28.000
There's never been more opportunity out there.
00:26:28.079 --> 00:26:38.480
You know, clearly, I think what a lot of people are talking about is process automation, and I think deploying AI to automate core processes, um, which is very exciting.
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:44.799
I mean, we have seen, you know, significant improvements at Redwood from a productivity perspective through process automation.
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:51.279
Last four years, we estimate about a 39% improvement in, for example, loads per day per dispatcher, right?
00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:52.480
Those kinds of things, right?
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:54.400
So we are making real progress.
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:59.839
And there's still literally that's the tip of the iceberg, right, in that regard.
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:09.920
Um, but what gets me, I think, more excited really is what can happen with better decision making, whether it's automated decision making or facilitated decision making, right?
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:16.640
Like for me, my my human costs are about one-tenth of my cost of purchase transportation.
00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:30.319
So for every 1% of purchase transportation cost that I can improve or reduce through better decision making, I would need to bring a 10% reduction in sort of headcount to equal that.
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:38.880
So I love what we're doing in order to help all of our people and our customers make better decisions.
00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:41.440
So we're doing a lot on the pricing front.
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:43.200
We're doing a lot on modeling.
00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:51.680
You know, we're building digital twins that are going to enable us to replicate our customers' operating environment on an ongoing basis.
00:27:51.759 --> 00:27:56.079
So we can scenario test and we can try to figure out, okay, what's the right thing to do here?
00:27:56.160 --> 00:27:59.119
If we change this and we change that, I call it a what-if machine.
00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:00.559
You know, we make all these changes.
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:06.079
What's the net impact on cost efficiency, on service efficiency, all those kinds of things?
00:28:06.319 --> 00:28:20.880
When technology can can uh allow us to do that, you know, when that's the kind of work that our people are doing instead of you know booking appointments, you know, I think that that the that the the value creation is just is just almost limitless.
00:28:21.119 --> 00:28:26.480
I I I love your pragmatic perspective that at the end technology needs to translate into execution, right?
00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:27.920
So which I fully agree.
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:29.599
So it's not this irrelevant.
00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:33.200
So so now so just recapping a little bit.
00:28:33.279 --> 00:28:39.599
So so the ownership models are converging, platforms are rising, technology is everywhere, right?
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:44.480
So what ultimately defines a winning supply chain organization?
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:46.720
Yeah, yeah, that's a good question.
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:47.519
That's a good question.
00:28:47.680 --> 00:29:02.000
I mean, look, I think I think at the end of the day, um everybody that's working in supply chain is trying to create competitive advantage, real value uh for the company, right?
00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:04.000
For the for the for the shipper.
00:29:04.160 --> 00:29:14.000
Um, really trying to um do more than just procure well, do more than than secure capacity, right?
00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:19.680
Um I think really winning is is working hand in glove with the business, right?
00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:28.960
And being able to offer optionality, um, to offer certainly deliver on on the promises, right?
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:34.079
There's a there's a real heavy necessity for strong consistency, right?
00:29:34.319 --> 00:29:43.039
At the same time, I think there's a very real, you know, the supply chains that that win in the future are gonna be very adaptable, they're gonna be very flexible because we're gonna be seeing lots of change.
00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:48.720
And I think we saw in COVID the limitations of many supply chains that that lacked that.
00:29:48.960 --> 00:29:56.400
The supply chains that won were the supply chains that could adapt uh to a different and unforeseeable environment.
00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:58.400
And I think that that's gonna be true in the future.
00:29:58.480 --> 00:29:59.759
Those are the supply chains that win.
00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:08.480
The ones that are really able to deliver competitive advantage under a variety of operating circumstances and change dynamics.
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:10.559
So I fully agree.
00:30:10.799 --> 00:30:14.799
But at the same time, you know, we live in a very volatile world and network, right?
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:22.960
And and how do you scale that execution in a very with this high level of volatility?
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:33.519
How do you think Yeah, I look, I think I I think it it is it is challenging, you know, to be able to, you know, scale so so to be able to deal with growth, right?
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:43.519
And and become better, right, not worse, and be able to deal with all of um all of the variables that are constantly coming at you in that in that additional complexity.
00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:47.759
So to me, uh what we are real believers in integration, right?
00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:50.799
For us, you know, we are an integration platform.
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:57.759
We believe that that you can't manage something um that isn't integrated into your workflows and into your systems, right?
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:17.599
And so so we believe that that the secret to scale and the secret to dealing with complex operating environments that are constantly changing is being deeply integrated with the business and deeply integrated with your partners' data sets and the technologies that are out there that can help you deal with all of those variables.
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:21.440
So so that's that's where we start with all of this.
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:31.279
And you know, from there, of course, you know, you need to, uh in a highly complex world, you need to um really think through your workflows, right?
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:37.359
Uh and really think about how am I going to perform if I am 20% larger, 25% larger.
00:31:37.519 --> 00:31:47.839
Am I gonna have to throw people at it, or can I use technology to decouple, right, you know, between between volume and workload on my human resources?
00:31:48.079 --> 00:31:50.160
And um it's a challenge.
00:31:50.240 --> 00:32:17.119
I think there's no question about it, but um, but I do think that there's um that that that we're now at a place from a technology perspective, um, where you can scale um even in a highly complex world very effectively, and actually end up at the end of the day with that sort of data flywheel um with a better service, with a more consistent uh execution capability um than you did going in.
00:32:17.200 --> 00:32:19.279
And I think that's what we're all striving for.
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:20.880
Thank you.
00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:25.839
I think that that's an I I I love your your your response to this one.
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:42.799
So uh, you know, we're we're coming to the end of our conversation, but you know, one thing that you know, I've gotten a lot of feedback about the part of this conversation that people enjoy a lot is when I'm able to you know get the human side of the people that I talk with and share their insights.
00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:52.640
So if you indulge me, I'll do a quick rapid fire QA just to share a little bit about that and just to hear a bit about about Mark Jager, the guy, not executive, right?
00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:57.119
So so one capability every supply chain leader must build now.
00:32:58.240 --> 00:32:59.279
Uh flexibility.
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.359
I really think flexibility, right?
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:04.400
I I think it's absolutely the critical skill.
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:06.400
And um, you just gotta have it.
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:13.680
And I I think we are too we we can get too institutional in supply chain and too locked down, and that's just not the future, right?
00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:16.160
We it's all about being able to adapt.
00:33:16.559 --> 00:33:19.920
So I'm gonna I'm gonna give you two answers to the next one.
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:23.920
So AI, is it overhyped or underutilized?
00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:24.720
Why?
00:33:25.519 --> 00:33:28.400
Well, I'd say both, but I can't choose both, I suppose.
00:33:28.559 --> 00:33:30.880
Um look, I would say underutilized right now.
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:32.880
I mean, look, the hype cycle is crazy.
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:35.599
I don't think I've ever seen anything with that kind of hype.
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:38.400
At the same time, I don't think I've ever seen anything with this kind of potential.
00:33:38.559 --> 00:33:53.279
So I think if we look in 10 years, I don't think we'll feel like it was overhyped as much as we will look at how we were using AI and really consider it to be really so nascent, right?
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:54.960
Like really so early stage.
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:58.400
I think we'll be using AI in fundamentally different ways.
00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:00.720
It'll be much more pervasive.
00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:09.599
Um, and so I think in that sense, the level of utilization is going to be uh uh you know exponential, right?
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:13.760
Whereas, you know, at some point I think it'll come pretty close to hitting the hype cycle.
00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:16.000
So I've got to go with underutilized at this point.
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:20.239
So um we talk about platform, we talk about assets.
00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:23.840
Which one creates more value over the next decade?
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:31.440
Well, um, so look, I as I said before, I think I believe that assets create tremendous value because they are a part of the world.
00:34:31.760 --> 00:34:33.199
We're a platform company.
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:42.000
I gotta go with platform on that one for sure, because I think that that um that really, you know, these platforms get more and more valuable.
00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:51.280
They're producing more and more value as they grow and as they continue to become a part of the broader supply chain uh world, right?
00:34:51.440 --> 00:35:03.920
So to me, these platforms are still early stage, and the the need for orchestration uh that these platforms can facilitate um is going to really grow tremendously over the course of time.
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:07.039
Whereas assets will continue to be somewhat linear.
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:10.480
Maybe a last one, and and I fully agree.
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:16.079
I think at the end, over the next 10 years, probably platforms but assets enabled for sure.
00:35:16.239 --> 00:35:24.239
So the which is the biggest execution mistake you see repeating over and over again nowadays?
00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:29.039
I think the the biggest execution mistake we see is not building the foundation, right?
00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:31.039
That's that's really necessary, right?
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:46.639
And we have, you know, um it's it's good for us because it's it's a core competency for us, but but we see so many, so many shippers um who even large sophisticated shippers who who don't have, for example, harmonized data, right?
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:50.320
And so they're really operating in multiple silos.
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:56.880
They they they have a lot of data that they can't really use because it's apples to oranges, right?
00:35:56.960 --> 00:36:02.559
And so so to me, the biggest mistake that we see is folks not building that foundation before they start, right?
00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:03.519
I mean, that's the work.
00:36:03.679 --> 00:36:14.960
You know, you've got to have that foundation to innovate um meaningfully, you've got to have that that solid foundation across the entire organization, not broken out into silos.
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:22.960
You know, uh just to wrap it up, you know, one last question, and I tend to ask everyone, all my guests, this question, you know.
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:33.440
Now, as I reflect on everything we discussed today, so converging of public and private models, the shift towards platforms, the role of technology and capital.
00:36:34.000 --> 00:36:46.159
What is one belief or mindset shift that leaders must adopt or strengthen now to successfully navigate the transformational momentum that we're leaving in the supply chain space?
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:47.840
Well, that's a great question.
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:49.679
I mean, there are many challenges.
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:51.519
I think there's no no doubt about that.
00:36:51.840 --> 00:37:01.280
To me, what really uh everyone should be mindful of is are they building an organization that can embrace change, right?
00:37:01.519 --> 00:37:15.599
An organization that can um that can recognize um where issues are occurring uh and and and and work in a constructive way to improve, right?
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:19.920
To get better, to bring on new technology, to bring on new partners.
00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:24.639
You know, the the good performance of today isn't going to be good enough tomorrow, right?
00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:32.800
And so I think we all have to be ready for a pace and level of change that we haven't seen in our uh careers.
00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:47.119
And and our organizations need to be capable and um uh eager to undertake that kind of change because because I think I think that that it's coming, and and the people that win are the people that are going to be able to adapt to that.
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:50.400
I have to ask, you know, one last question.
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:55.199
You know, I hear your energy and your passion on the topic and the discussion over the last few minutes.
00:37:55.280 --> 00:37:58.800
And you know, what keeps your momentum going all this time?
00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:01.440
You know, hopefully you have you have a lot of energy.
00:38:01.599 --> 00:38:03.440
So what keeps you going, you personally?
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:04.400
Well, I love it.
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:06.239
I mean, I I love the business, you know.
00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:07.280
I I love our team.
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.199
We have this amazing team at Redwood.
00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:13.280
They're they're very innovative, they're high energy, you know, they're fun.
00:38:13.519 --> 00:38:14.719
I love our customers.
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:16.960
I love the fact that we're solving problems, you know.
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:22.800
So so to me, I've been in the business now for I guess 34 years, something like that.
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:28.400
And it's always been it, it's always been full of challenges, uh, but full of great people.
00:38:28.719 --> 00:38:31.840
And it's interesting intellectually, you know.
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:40.639
I I uh uh I just uh to me it's it it it's it's such an enjoyable uh part of my life, right?
00:38:40.719 --> 00:38:44.320
That that uh I look forward to going to work, you know, it's it's not a problem.
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:45.920
So that's that's awesome.
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:49.280
You know, you know, uh as I reflect on the conversation, right?
00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:57.840
You know one powerful reality comes to mind, you know, the industry may debate public or private, assets or platform, technology operations.
00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:01.280
But at the end, the real differentiator is probably simpler, right?
00:39:01.360 --> 00:39:06.800
It's the ability to execute consistently, at scale, under pressure.
00:39:07.519 --> 00:39:09.360
And the future won't belong to one model.
00:39:09.440 --> 00:39:10.239
I think we discussed it.
00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:20.800
It will belong to those that can integrate some discipline from the public markets, the agility of private markets, uh, and the power of platform-driven ecosystems, right?
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:28.639
Uh at the end, supply chains are not just infrastructure, they are, from my perspective, the performance engine of companies.
00:39:28.880 --> 00:39:32.559
So I just have to say thank you for joining us, Mark.
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:35.679
I appreciate your it was uh it was a pleasure having you.
00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:39.199
I'll give you the last word if you want to have any any final remarks.
00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:41.679
Oh, I would just say thank you very much for having me.
00:39:41.760 --> 00:39:42.639
It's it's been great.
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:49.679
I really enjoyed it, and um appreciate the opportunity to to talk about Redwood and talk about the industry.
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:53.280
And um thank you for uh thank you for having me.
00:39:53.679 --> 00:39:54.800
Thanks for joining.
00:39:54.880 --> 00:39:55.519
I appreciate it.
00:39:55.599 --> 00:40:03.679
So, to our listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share with fellow operators, innovators, and leaders across the supply chain ecosystem.
00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:11.599
I'm Luis Olana, and this is the momentum flow, where clarity, capital, and conviction keep supply chains and leaders moving forward.
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:16.800
Until next time, stay curious, stay connected, and keep the momentum flowing.
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:17.679
Thank you.
