How to Actually Protect Company Culture: Nitin Sharma

WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.271 --> 00:00:03.313
In December 23, my recruitment business failed.
2
00:00:03.473 --> 00:00:06.395
We thought we knew best and that was our biggest downfall.
3
00:00:06.555 --> 00:00:08.556
You've learned something you can't unlearn.
4
00:00:08.756 --> 00:00:11.277
Someone respected, someone visible is crossing a line.
5
00:00:11.397 --> 00:00:12.158
I wouldn't allow it to happen.
6
00:00:12.398 --> 00:00:15.480
If you're doing something that you shouldn't be doing and you know you shouldn't be doing it, don't do it.
7
00:00:15.500 --> 00:00:17.121
It's pretty simple, right?
8
00:00:17.341 --> 00:00:20.383
My wife calls it a Messiah syndrome of like, no, I need to do something about that.
9
00:00:20.823 --> 00:00:22.804
Like I can't allow that to happen, that's not right.
10
00:00:23.125 --> 00:00:28.350
Most people know where the line is and when they've crossed it, they just hope they get away with it.
11
00:00:28.490 --> 00:00:29.771
Should we do this decision sprint?
12
00:00:29.791 --> 00:00:30.232
Let's do it.
13
00:00:30.272 --> 00:00:30.812
Let's have a go.
14
00:00:30.832 --> 00:00:31.373
You go for that one.
15
00:00:31.853 --> 00:00:32.093
Cool.
16
00:00:32.393 --> 00:00:33.394
What is your move?
17
00:00:33.414 --> 00:00:34.535
Do you want to have a look at your score?
18
00:00:35.236 --> 00:00:35.656
Are we ready?
19
00:00:37.959 --> 00:00:38.119
Oh.
20
00:00:43.824 --> 00:00:45.285
The Human Loop Podcast.
21
00:00:45.826 --> 00:00:47.087
Powered by Ethereum.
22
00:00:52.088 --> 00:00:53.329
Come on in.
23
00:00:53.809 --> 00:00:55.050
Say hello to Josh.
24
00:00:55.090 --> 00:00:56.251
Hi Josh, how are you doing?
25
00:00:56.291 --> 00:00:59.132
Yeah, pleasure to meet you.
26
00:00:59.372 --> 00:01:00.113
Come and grab a seat.
27
00:01:00.813 --> 00:01:02.254
This is it then, this is the...
28
00:01:03.575 --> 00:01:04.155
This is the studio.
29
00:01:04.175 --> 00:01:05.196
This is the studio, I love it.
30
00:01:05.236 --> 00:01:06.276
It's really cool.
31
00:01:06.637 --> 00:01:10.119
So we, yeah, this is our home.
32
00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:11.339
So we've got a block booking here.
33
00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:11.980
Yeah.
34
00:01:12.140 --> 00:01:15.602
Josh brings up all of the kit from sunny Bournemouth.
35
00:01:15.862 --> 00:01:16.262
Love that.
36
00:01:16.682 --> 00:01:17.203
And then we're in.
37
00:01:18.103 --> 00:01:19.304
I've got some water for you.
38
00:01:19.464 --> 00:01:20.625
I appreciate you, thank you.
39
00:01:23.433 --> 00:01:27.217
Yeah, my new studio that I'm moving to is probably just a little bit...
40
00:01:27.317 --> 00:01:29.720
It's definitely narrow in this, but maybe it's a little bit longer.
41
00:01:30.020 --> 00:01:30.321
Okay.
42
00:01:30.381 --> 00:01:32.904
And we're trying to squeeze in two studios, basically.
43
00:01:32.944 --> 00:01:37.148
Because I saw all the social stuff about you saying goodbye... Yeah.
44
00:01:37.729 --> 00:01:39.131
...to my little shoebox.
45
00:01:39.151 --> 00:01:39.932
To your studio.
46
00:01:40.292 --> 00:01:40.512
Yeah.
47
00:01:41.013 --> 00:01:41.333
Yeah.
48
00:01:41.493 --> 00:01:41.994
So, um...
49
00:01:43.407 --> 00:01:44.067
It was just one of those.
50
00:01:44.087 --> 00:01:49.430
I tend to react to situations when I'm kind of pushed into a corner.
51
00:01:50.210 --> 00:01:52.091
And they tried to get me to sign a three-year lease.
52
00:01:52.151 --> 00:01:52.992
I was like, I'm not doing that.
53
00:01:53.472 --> 00:01:54.432
So they're like, OK, fine.
54
00:01:54.792 --> 00:01:56.253
The 12-month agreement's here.
55
00:01:56.493 --> 00:01:59.214
And I was like, 40% higher than what I'm paying now.
56
00:01:59.635 --> 00:02:00.695
They're like, yeah, we know.
57
00:02:03.039 --> 00:02:03.840
Guess what I'm going to do then?
58
00:02:03.900 --> 00:02:05.321
I'm going to go find somewhere else, aren't I?
59
00:02:05.361 --> 00:02:07.924
So they were like, yeah, well, good luck, because everywhere is quite expensive now.
60
00:02:08.264 --> 00:02:14.970
And luckily, further out of Coventry City Centre, there's three stories that used to be run by...
61
00:02:14.990 --> 00:02:19.154
It was like DWP were based in there, HMRC were based in there, a few of those.
62
00:02:19.595 --> 00:02:22.538
And they all left, and this new company had come in to refurb the lot.
63
00:02:23.819 --> 00:02:47.293
and my closest pal was looking for an office space as well so he was like let's go and check it out let's just see we've got them like actually yeah because it's perfect for him because he's growing to like headcount like 15 okay and for me i was like just want a bigger space i just want to set up a couple of different types of studios and it was the same as what i'm paying now before the increase i was like done see you later see you later yeah thank you could have had me for forever
64
00:02:47.773 --> 00:02:53.300
Now, don't get me wrong, it's a bit frustrating because it means I've got the summer without a studio because I had to get out of there and they're not ready yet.
65
00:02:53.440 --> 00:02:55.723
But I take the summer off anyway, normally, with the kids.
66
00:02:55.964 --> 00:02:56.184
Yeah, yeah.
67
00:02:56.424 --> 00:02:57.586
So I was like, it's just going to work out.
68
00:02:57.646 --> 00:03:02.071
It's just a couple of months without having to pay rent and having to film for my conservatory, which isn't too bad.
69
00:03:02.452 --> 00:03:03.353
It's very hot in this weather.
70
00:03:03.373 --> 00:03:05.536
I was going to say, your conservatory light this week...
71
00:03:06.677 --> 00:03:07.197
Probably been chilly.
72
00:03:07.217 --> 00:03:07.597
It wasn't great.
73
00:03:07.617 --> 00:03:08.178
It wasn't great.
74
00:03:08.238 --> 00:03:09.558
But I did a couple of episodes.
75
00:03:09.839 --> 00:03:10.159
It's nice.
76
00:03:10.199 --> 00:03:10.659
I've got a nice...
77
00:03:10.699 --> 00:03:11.799
I'm really into my gardening, right?
78
00:03:11.819 --> 00:03:14.200
So I've got a nice garden behind me and everyone's like, oh, it's really nice.
79
00:03:14.220 --> 00:03:14.941
It looks really pretty.
80
00:03:14.961 --> 00:03:15.541
I'm like, yeah.
81
00:03:15.641 --> 00:03:16.361
Was that an AI garden?
82
00:03:16.542 --> 00:03:17.222
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
83
00:03:17.242 --> 00:03:18.002
That's blood, sweat and tears.
84
00:03:18.022 --> 00:03:19.343
I actually had to get up and prove it.
85
00:03:19.363 --> 00:03:22.144
So I had an American client and they were like, there's no way that's your garden.
86
00:03:22.284 --> 00:03:22.884
I was like, it is.
87
00:03:22.984 --> 00:03:23.225
Watch.
88
00:03:23.525 --> 00:03:27.487
And I had to get up and go out and sort of like do jumping jacks in the background to be like, it's me.
89
00:03:27.507 --> 00:03:27.867
I'm telling you.
90
00:03:27.907 --> 00:03:28.627
And then come back.
91
00:03:35.270 --> 00:03:35.870
Have you watched any?
92
00:03:36.210 --> 00:03:36.510
I have.
93
00:03:36.630 --> 00:03:42.132
I'll be honest, I kind of X-2'd the Cyborg episode.
94
00:03:42.332 --> 00:03:45.473
I know Cy, so I was like, all right, go on then.
95
00:03:45.933 --> 00:03:47.153
So Cy scored quite well.
96
00:03:47.513 --> 00:03:48.253
He did, yeah.
97
00:03:48.274 --> 00:03:48.914
Was Cy 60?
98
00:03:48.934 --> 00:03:51.314
He's a very competitive, 56 I think it was.
99
00:03:51.514 --> 00:03:51.994
56.
100
00:03:52.035 --> 00:03:56.296
Yeah, at the time he was top leaderboard and you've had a couple of people since then.
101
00:03:56.316 --> 00:04:01.097
So Cy was top and Cy was like the best that day, wasn't he?
102
00:04:01.690 --> 00:04:03.591
Yeah, yeah, he was my personal favourite.
103
00:04:03.911 --> 00:04:05.792
He's such a normal favourite as well.
104
00:04:05.812 --> 00:04:07.152
I don't think that's the problem.
105
00:04:07.593 --> 00:04:10.714
And then Oli Whiting took it off, Si?
106
00:04:11.354 --> 00:04:12.015
Or was Oli below Si?
107
00:04:12.095 --> 00:04:13.535
I think Si was one point above Oli.
108
00:04:13.775 --> 00:04:14.556
Si was one point above Oli.
109
00:04:14.996 --> 00:04:15.516
Natalie?
110
00:04:16.837 --> 00:04:18.177
Natalie took Oli off the top spot?
111
00:04:18.197 --> 00:04:18.678
Natalie took it.
112
00:04:19.638 --> 00:04:21.239
Cool, okay, so Natalie took Oli off.
113
00:04:21.299 --> 00:04:22.959
Do we need to close that blind, or are we okay with that?
114
00:04:23.620 --> 00:04:26.461
I'm going to just close it halfway, I think, just a little less.
115
00:04:28.522 --> 00:04:29.523
Cool.
116
00:04:29.743 --> 00:04:30.624
So, look, you know the format.
117
00:04:30.964 --> 00:04:31.945
So, yeah, yeah.
118
00:04:32.185 --> 00:04:34.747
Fortunately for me, I'm not a very competitive person.
119
00:04:34.867 --> 00:04:35.247
Doesn't matter.
120
00:04:35.267 --> 00:04:36.268
I just like taking part in things.
121
00:04:36.388 --> 00:04:37.329
Yeah.
122
00:04:37.349 --> 00:04:37.930
Very good.
123
00:04:37.970 --> 00:04:38.370
Very good.
124
00:04:38.890 --> 00:04:42.233
So, I will... We'll just get straight into it.
125
00:04:42.293 --> 00:04:42.713
Yeah, yeah, cool.
126
00:04:42.733 --> 00:04:43.614
Yeah, go straight into it.
127
00:04:43.674 --> 00:04:45.736
So, Nitin, thank you.
128
00:04:46.376 --> 00:04:46.717
Thank you.
129
00:04:46.797 --> 00:04:47.918
I appreciate you having me.
130
00:04:47.938 --> 00:04:49.939
We, I mean, we have talked.
131
00:04:49.999 --> 00:04:54.243
We've been on Zoom calls and then at team conference.
132
00:04:54.263 --> 00:04:54.683
Yeah, yeah.
133
00:04:54.903 --> 00:04:57.023
We actually got to say hello personally, which was cool.
134
00:04:57.103 --> 00:04:58.444
You were very, very in demand, mate.
135
00:04:58.464 --> 00:05:00.344
I appreciate you giving me 10 minutes.
136
00:05:00.744 --> 00:05:01.824
No, no, no.
137
00:05:02.144 --> 00:05:03.605
I wanted to come and hang out with you.
138
00:05:03.905 --> 00:05:04.705
I was genuine.
139
00:05:04.725 --> 00:05:09.306
I was really apprehensive because I thought, he's busy with Simon.
140
00:05:09.326 --> 00:05:09.886
I know what Simon is.
141
00:05:09.906 --> 00:05:10.966
Simon's very old school, right?
142
00:05:11.146 --> 00:05:11.326
Yeah.
143
00:05:11.406 --> 00:05:17.227
And he's like, yeah, they're having their little post-talk, talk-through or whatever, and you were sat with somebody else that I didn't know and didn't meet.
144
00:05:17.807 --> 00:05:20.028
And I thought, we are about to wrap up there.
145
00:05:20.048 --> 00:05:21.608
We literally want to put this equipment away.
146
00:05:21.628 --> 00:05:22.228
I could see.
147
00:05:22.448 --> 00:05:25.913
I felt so horrible going like, do you want to do it now?
148
00:05:26.293 --> 00:05:27.955
No, no, no.
149
00:05:28.216 --> 00:05:33.843
I really wanted to meet you and have a chat with you because your show is huge in the recruitment industry.
150
00:05:34.143 --> 00:05:39.370
And having spent 12 plus years in the recruitment industry, I was like, I want to go and have a chat with you.
151
00:05:39.590 --> 00:05:41.951
But then I could see you guys wanting to pack up.
152
00:05:42.011 --> 00:05:46.572
And I'd also just seen how much content you'd done that day.
153
00:05:46.592 --> 00:05:48.793
So you must have been shattered.
154
00:05:49.533 --> 00:05:50.834
It was a long day.
155
00:05:50.894 --> 00:05:52.494
But I loved the 10 minutes we got together.
156
00:05:53.374 --> 00:05:54.815
And we covered...
157
00:05:55.675 --> 00:05:58.557
I just felt that we were having a chat about a topic that we both love.
158
00:05:58.797 --> 00:05:58.957
Yeah.
159
00:05:59.157 --> 00:06:02.379
Like it just felt like talking about leadership and business and decision making.
160
00:06:02.999 --> 00:06:04.200
There was, there was a good vibe.
161
00:06:04.240 --> 00:06:05.781
So I was like, great, let's get you on.
162
00:06:05.801 --> 00:06:08.563
Like, would you come on and do the decision sprint?
163
00:06:09.023 --> 00:06:10.664
So we'll do that.
164
00:06:10.764 --> 00:06:19.449
But first of all, I would love for you to tell everyone like who you are, how you help people.
165
00:06:19.909 --> 00:06:21.090
And then, and then we'll get into it.
166
00:06:21.330 --> 00:06:21.990
I appreciate that.
167
00:06:23.191 --> 00:06:23.791
Who am I?
168
00:06:24.031 --> 00:06:30.853
I'm Nitin, I'm a 40 year old dad of two amazing little girls, and that's who I am.
169
00:06:30.893 --> 00:06:32.333
That for me is like priority, right?
170
00:06:32.533 --> 00:06:37.315
A lot of people kind of do the sort of the parent thing and the working parent thing.
171
00:06:37.355 --> 00:06:45.537
For me it's like that is literally my entire personality is the businesses that I've got, the things I'm involved in, everything rotates around them.
172
00:06:45.777 --> 00:06:47.278
And we have an agreement.
173
00:06:48.888 --> 00:06:49.708
especially my little one.
174
00:06:49.848 --> 00:06:51.709
Daddy, when we're at school, you can be at work.
175
00:06:52.089 --> 00:06:53.689
When we're not at school, you have to be back at home.
176
00:06:53.769 --> 00:06:54.449
And I'm like, all right, cool.
177
00:06:54.649 --> 00:06:58.770
It's getting a bit more difficult now with kind of how things have blown up, but they're very understanding.
178
00:06:59.591 --> 00:07:03.732
And I'll take every half-term off and every school holiday off.
179
00:07:03.752 --> 00:07:07.072
So six weeks of the summer, I'll be off with them doing the dad thing.
180
00:07:07.492 --> 00:07:15.994
But outside of being the dad, I am very fortunate that I run the recruitment industry's largest media company, is what it is now.
181
00:07:16.274 --> 00:07:18.195
But what we are is a podcast at heart.
182
00:07:19.215 --> 00:07:36.305
And what we do is release three episodes a week to help recruitment business owners or talent acquisition teams or even direct hiring businesses figure out what tech and what kind of front, back and middle office opportunities are out there for them to kind of enhance what they do.
183
00:07:36.606 --> 00:07:43.630
Purely because, and it was entirely driven by the fact that in December 2013, my recruitment business failed.
184
00:07:44.630 --> 00:07:50.574
for a whole range of reasons, but the biggest one was actually that I was running a solo race, me and my old business partner at the time.
185
00:07:51.434 --> 00:07:52.035
We didn't want to know.
186
00:07:52.295 --> 00:07:52.975
We didn't want to hear it.
187
00:07:53.696 --> 00:07:56.858
We thought we knew best, and that was our biggest downfall.
188
00:07:57.338 --> 00:08:12.707
So for me, it was a case of actually if I can do something which helps recruitment business owners or talent acquisition teams or even business owners be made aware of things that are available to them that they otherwise didn't know, then I'm doing the right thing because I absolutely didn't want to get back on the tools.
189
00:08:13.127 --> 00:08:13.407
Okay.
190
00:08:13.567 --> 00:08:14.208
Yeah.
191
00:08:14.788 --> 00:08:15.128
Okay.
192
00:08:15.849 --> 00:08:16.770
You've challenged me already.
193
00:08:17.350 --> 00:08:17.830
Go on.
194
00:08:17.850 --> 00:08:19.471
You've challenged me already.
195
00:08:19.491 --> 00:08:27.136
I am struggling with the dad business thing as well.
196
00:08:27.156 --> 00:08:31.800
So I know that, like, some holidays are here.
197
00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:32.740
Yeah.
198
00:08:33.040 --> 00:08:35.242
And when you said, like, you take the six weeks off...
199
00:08:36.477 --> 00:08:38.179
I'm like, wow, how?
200
00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:41.101
I need to get more balance there.
201
00:08:41.341 --> 00:08:41.602
I do.
202
00:08:41.822 --> 00:08:49.248
I think what it comes down to is when you run a business, and I have nothing but respect for people who work for themselves, right?
203
00:08:49.288 --> 00:08:58.937
Because most people in life have a dream, have an ambition, have an idea that's either popped into their head or they feel that they've got something there.
204
00:09:00.777 --> 00:09:08.759
But they bypass that or they shelve that for a 50K salary, 28 days holiday and sick pay and a pension.
205
00:09:08.959 --> 00:09:09.800
You know what I mean?
206
00:09:10.500 --> 00:09:26.605
And so if you're the kind of person that's gone, okay, now I will risk comfort and the ability to be able to kind of have one element of all the variables in my life guaranteed, which is a wage coming in every month to follow and pursue my own dreams.
207
00:09:27.205 --> 00:09:30.086
I think at that point you've got to then establish what's more important to me?
208
00:09:30.566 --> 00:09:32.628
Is it money or is it time?
209
00:09:33.629 --> 00:09:38.134
Because certainly for me, in the last couple of years building this, and we're still in building mode, right?
210
00:09:39.696 --> 00:09:45.281
I've earned more money working, and I've certainly earned more money in a recruitment business than what I pay myself now.
211
00:09:46.308 --> 00:09:48.350
So if I'm not getting the money, then I want the time.
212
00:09:49.050 --> 00:09:51.632
Because if I haven't got the time and I haven't got the money, what the hell am I doing?
213
00:09:52.273 --> 00:09:53.374
What a pointless thing to do.
214
00:09:53.414 --> 00:10:11.668
I'd rather, and I did, you know, six weeks before I moved, started working in recruitment, six weeks before my wedding, I painted fences and mowed lawns to make ends meet because I had been made redundant and there was a six week gap between I was getting married, then we're going on a honeymoon, and then I was gonna start my new job.
215
00:10:11.989 --> 00:10:12.669
Yeah.
216
00:10:12.929 --> 00:10:14.571
So you might as well go and do something else, right?
217
00:10:15.251 --> 00:10:18.394
So I think it's that reframing of what you qualify success.
218
00:10:18.955 --> 00:10:20.476
We put monetary value on success.
219
00:10:20.616 --> 00:10:20.917
I don't.
220
00:10:21.097 --> 00:10:22.118
I really don't anymore.
221
00:10:22.178 --> 00:10:25.341
Like, you know, stopped liking nice things a long time ago, actually.
222
00:10:26.062 --> 00:10:28.084
And it served, touch wood serves me well.
223
00:10:28.444 --> 00:10:28.624
Yeah.
224
00:10:28.985 --> 00:10:29.205
Yeah.
225
00:10:29.706 --> 00:10:31.207
It's a work on for me, for sure.
226
00:10:31.387 --> 00:10:32.128
It's a work on for me.
227
00:10:32.668 --> 00:10:33.209
I think I...
228
00:10:34.410 --> 00:10:36.492
I get a little bit addicted to work, I think, if I'm honest.
229
00:10:36.772 --> 00:10:39.414
Yeah, it's probably something that I need to work on.
230
00:10:39.974 --> 00:10:41.336
Is it the work you're addicted to?
231
00:10:42.136 --> 00:10:51.163
Or is it the dopamine that you get from the feeling of success in terms of building something that you're really good at or something that wasn't anything but now is becoming something?
232
00:10:51.183 --> 00:10:52.864
Do you know what I mean?
233
00:10:53.385 --> 00:10:53.985
Yeah, it's that.
234
00:10:54.005 --> 00:10:55.306
Yeah, it's not the work.
235
00:10:55.967 --> 00:10:58.949
The work is the vehicle, the dopamine.
236
00:10:58.969 --> 00:10:59.930
It's the sense of creation.
237
00:11:00.190 --> 00:11:03.232
It's that sense of creation that I think is very...
238
00:11:04.153 --> 00:11:05.234
How many kids have you got?
239
00:11:05.634 --> 00:11:05.875
Two.
240
00:11:06.015 --> 00:11:06.695
Two, right?
241
00:11:06.715 --> 00:11:08.597
You created them too, right?
242
00:11:08.897 --> 00:11:09.157
Yeah.
243
00:11:09.698 --> 00:11:13.161
And they're only going to be little boys for only a very short period of time.
244
00:11:13.261 --> 00:11:17.044
And we are but a, we spend but a fraction of that.
245
00:11:17.224 --> 00:11:20.787
They're in our lives for much longer than we're in theirs.
246
00:11:21.008 --> 00:11:21.188
Yeah.
247
00:11:22.007 --> 00:11:24.029
And so for me, I'd rather leave a...
248
00:11:24.049 --> 00:11:26.170
I had a very absent dad.
249
00:11:26.871 --> 00:11:30.034
So I think that drives kind of the purpose and my why.
250
00:11:30.254 --> 00:11:34.677
Because I'm sort of like, actually, no, I want my kids to stand at my funeral and be like, we have the best dad.
251
00:11:35.258 --> 00:11:40.883
Rather than me, who had to stand at my dad's funeral, kind of think like, I've got to think something nice to say about this guy.
252
00:11:40.923 --> 00:11:45.086
Like, you know, I hate to listen to things about him and I'm just like, I've got nothing for you guys.
253
00:11:45.106 --> 00:11:46.207
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
254
00:11:46.527 --> 00:11:47.268
Yeah, it's true.
255
00:11:47.468 --> 00:11:47.728
It's true.
256
00:11:47.748 --> 00:11:48.109
And I think...
257
00:11:50.258 --> 00:11:54.702
Yeah, like it's, there's a, there's, I was gonna say there's a balance.
258
00:11:54.742 --> 00:11:55.903
I hate the phrase balance.
259
00:11:55.923 --> 00:11:56.764
I think there's just a focus.
260
00:11:56.784 --> 00:11:59.146
I think you just shift focuses in between me and my wife.
261
00:12:00.104 --> 00:12:05.686
you know, we've got the summer holidays wrapped, like we're gonna both spend some quality time, et cetera.
262
00:12:06.246 --> 00:12:10.067
I think because I just love the boys and I love hanging out with them.
263
00:12:10.087 --> 00:12:15.588
They're at that magical age, like 10 and eight, where they've got a bit of personality, a bit of attitude, but they still wanna hang out.
264
00:12:15.668 --> 00:12:15.968
That's it.
265
00:12:16.148 --> 00:12:25.871
And so this summer holiday, I'm very focused on like, Sarah and I had the conversation last night, we're like, we need to get our diaries together and look at how we're gonna divide and conquer.
266
00:12:26.071 --> 00:12:26.711
And we did that.
267
00:12:27.271 --> 00:12:28.972
And actually the days that I'm off off,
268
00:12:29.912 --> 00:12:31.594
We're just going to go out into the woods.
269
00:12:31.614 --> 00:12:34.056
We've got the new forest near us, et cetera, and that's good.
270
00:12:34.756 --> 00:12:40.461
But I think the dopamine hit of also, as you said, like seeing them develop, there's that dual dopamine hit.
271
00:12:40.941 --> 00:12:42.422
So, yeah.
272
00:12:42.442 --> 00:12:45.204
There's something like...
273
00:12:45.265 --> 00:12:47.566
I've never felt anything as rewarding as...
274
00:12:48.447 --> 00:12:56.590
Being a parent of actually good kids, like genuinely good kids that other people don't find irritating or that other people actually find a pleasure to be around.
275
00:12:56.750 --> 00:12:56.990
Yeah.
276
00:12:57.110 --> 00:12:59.932
Like that, I've never had anything as rewarding as that.
277
00:13:00.092 --> 00:13:00.272
Yeah.
278
00:13:00.392 --> 00:13:02.553
And I think that sometimes feeds it as well, right?
279
00:13:02.613 --> 00:13:06.154
I think sometimes I kind of say to myself and my siblings and stuff like that,
280
00:13:06.414 --> 00:13:07.856
Maybe we were just really shitty kids.
281
00:13:07.956 --> 00:13:09.537
And that's why dad didn't want to be around as much.
282
00:13:09.617 --> 00:13:10.298
Do you know what I mean?
283
00:13:10.318 --> 00:13:11.339
Maybe it was us.
284
00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:12.400
Because I love my kids.
285
00:13:12.420 --> 00:13:13.241
I think they're hilarious.
286
00:13:13.281 --> 00:13:14.502
And I love spending time with them.
287
00:13:14.522 --> 00:13:19.487
Because I genuinely enjoy watching the weird quirkiness that they are.
288
00:13:20.208 --> 00:13:25.473
And the ability they have to feel free to express themselves in however way they choose to.
289
00:13:25.833 --> 00:13:26.914
While still remaining...
290
00:13:27.935 --> 00:13:30.116
respectable and well-mannered.
291
00:13:30.156 --> 00:13:35.979
And when you go to parents' evenings and the teachers are saying, look, if I could have 30 of this child, I would.
292
00:13:36.620 --> 00:13:38.180
Like that, it's like, oh, okay.
293
00:13:38.581 --> 00:13:42.943
And I think that's the thing that feeds me the dopamine that therefore then I don't need from the business.
294
00:13:45.599 --> 00:13:46.039
I don't know.
295
00:13:46.059 --> 00:13:48.620
Yeah, maybe, but the business is still doing really well.
296
00:13:48.660 --> 00:13:50.620
Yeah, you win, win, win, win.
297
00:13:50.720 --> 00:13:51.000
It's good.
298
00:13:51.020 --> 00:13:51.821
You're doing some good stuff.
299
00:13:52.021 --> 00:13:52.821
I'm trying.
300
00:13:52.841 --> 00:13:53.321
Keep it going.
301
00:13:53.341 --> 00:13:53.601
I'm trying.
302
00:13:53.621 --> 00:13:53.941
Keep it going.
303
00:13:53.961 --> 00:13:54.301
I'm trying.
304
00:13:55.701 --> 00:13:55.962
Cool.
305
00:13:56.162 --> 00:13:56.362
Right.
306
00:13:56.502 --> 00:14:01.663
I want to, I feel like we could turn this show into like, let's just talk about fathered and stuff.
307
00:14:01.723 --> 00:14:03.083
Like we could, couldn't we?
308
00:14:03.223 --> 00:14:05.744
And Josh is like, I haven't got kids yet, but maybe I want some now.
309
00:14:06.484 --> 00:14:07.704
I'll just be a sponge.
310
00:14:07.724 --> 00:14:08.365
Just be a sponge.
311
00:14:08.405 --> 00:14:09.045
Just be a sponge.
312
00:14:11.406 --> 00:14:32.058
my kids annoy the hell out of me as well at the same time um but they're they're incredible um i'm gonna ask you the same question ask everyone all right so you um and and this is actually a wider leadership question than just work and i think we've already established that so what's one thing that you know is true today about leadership that you didn't know five years
313
00:14:39.073 --> 00:14:45.155
The more rope you give people, the more likely they are to hang themselves.
314
00:14:46.296 --> 00:14:48.236
People need routine.
315
00:14:48.437 --> 00:14:49.577
People need structure.
316
00:14:50.017 --> 00:15:02.602
Just because you as a leader can operate on flexibility and additional rope doesn't necessarily mean that everybody in your business is able to do the same.
317
00:15:05.330 --> 00:15:05.590
Cool.
318
00:15:06.050 --> 00:15:15.436
So rather than give you a, you know, yeah, it's a controversial statement, it is, but it's backed on experience that, yeah, we've had.
319
00:15:15.836 --> 00:15:25.401
Yeah, and I would say that that is a, I would say that is an out of vogue, 21st century answer.
320
00:15:25.882 --> 00:15:26.262
But...
321
00:15:28.132 --> 00:15:28.853
I resonate with it.
322
00:15:29.313 --> 00:15:30.874
I think there's an appropriate amount of rope.
323
00:15:30.994 --> 00:15:40.241
I think there's a propensity today to say people need all the rope.
324
00:15:41.122 --> 00:15:47.727
Like, you know, earlier stage people in their careers, I think, are asking for a lot of rope.
325
00:15:48.708 --> 00:15:48.988
But...
326
00:15:50.126 --> 00:15:57.546
Yeah, I'm interested to know a bit about what's driving that lived experience bit in you.
327
00:15:57.566 --> 00:15:58.689
Where do you come from with that?
328
00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:07.465
So I have a theory and we have an operating model in our business where we don't work on 40 hours a week, right?
329
00:16:07.945 --> 00:16:14.029
So when I'm hiring for a particular need in the business, it's never based on number of hours.
330
00:16:14.149 --> 00:16:16.090
It's based on outcomes and outputs, right?
331
00:16:16.250 --> 00:16:23.395
So it's quite easy to kind of monitor with the media business in that we took on two editors recently.
332
00:16:24.876 --> 00:16:42.885
Fantastic couple of guys And the output was We have three episodes that go out a week They need trailers, the full edit And eight shorts per episode Uploaded, ready to go The week before they do to go out That is the minimum I expect That's their output
333
00:16:45.989 --> 00:16:47.531
What does that translate to hours-wise?
334
00:16:47.571 --> 00:16:47.972
I don't know.
335
00:16:48.392 --> 00:16:49.333
Some people work faster.
336
00:16:49.393 --> 00:16:50.334
Some people work in bursts.
337
00:16:50.354 --> 00:16:52.657
Some people work better than others, right?
338
00:16:52.817 --> 00:16:57.583
In exactly the same way, we had the same model, and I have the same model for my marketing consultant.
339
00:16:57.683 --> 00:16:59.064
We need so many posts that go out.
340
00:16:59.104 --> 00:16:59.985
I need these things.
341
00:17:00.045 --> 00:17:01.307
I need to turn around on these things.
342
00:17:01.627 --> 00:17:03.489
Here is the output agreement that we've got.
343
00:17:04.270 --> 00:17:10.536
And for that, I'm not buying your time, I'm buying your skill set, and therefore I pay you what you've asked for in exchange for this.
344
00:17:10.576 --> 00:17:12.397
That's the contract of employment that we have.
345
00:17:13.458 --> 00:17:18.383
Now, I've had members of staff who we've parted ways with then who are just unable to...
346
00:17:21.513 --> 00:17:23.734
master that level of freedom.
347
00:17:24.554 --> 00:17:30.356
So I've got editors that will work at different hours of the day because they know the output is what the output is.
348
00:17:30.596 --> 00:17:40.860
And I've got a marketing consultant who will go, yeah, cool, I'm gonna dedicate three hours to just getting this stuff done, lining all this stuff up because I've got stuff going on the next couple of days.
349
00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:47.263
But then I've had members of staff who will just be AWOL, not do anything, get to Friday, and they're really behind on the outputs.
350
00:17:47.323 --> 00:17:54.246
Because they're so used to now being able to drop their kids off to school and go and see their friends and have a long weekend.
351
00:17:55.087 --> 00:18:00.570
And it becomes a vicious cycle for them to then break in, kind of almost get back into work mode.
352
00:18:01.450 --> 00:18:07.634
And I had to learn then the hard way that actually, just because you work optimally that way doesn't mean that other people do.
353
00:18:07.994 --> 00:18:09.855
Some people require structure.
354
00:18:10.175 --> 00:18:15.659
For my little ADHD brain, structure and routine is the absolute worst thing that you could put in front of me.
355
00:18:16.659 --> 00:18:20.061
And I will naturally gravitate towards trying to kind of muddy that.
356
00:18:21.042 --> 00:18:24.083
But for others, a lot of others, they need that.
357
00:18:24.163 --> 00:18:24.944
They need the structure.
358
00:18:24.964 --> 00:18:25.724
They need the routine.
359
00:18:25.744 --> 00:18:32.346
They need to know that they are contracted for so many hours a week to do these things.
360
00:18:32.406 --> 00:18:35.067
And that the working hours are X to X.
361
00:18:35.227 --> 00:18:36.748
And because they're just not able to...
362
00:18:37.628 --> 00:18:42.070
They can't help themselves but to take advantage of the situation, which then shoots them in the foot.
363
00:18:42.090 --> 00:18:43.611
They don't do it in a malicious way.
364
00:18:43.631 --> 00:18:44.911
Some people just aren't able to do it.
365
00:18:45.491 --> 00:18:45.731
Yeah.
366
00:18:46.412 --> 00:18:46.752
There's...
367
00:18:48.397 --> 00:18:50.258
There's loads in there we could talk about.
368
00:18:50.298 --> 00:18:51.598
Some toddlers will run into the road.
369
00:18:52.118 --> 00:18:55.039
You can tell them until you're blue in the face, but they will just run straight into the road.
370
00:18:55.239 --> 00:18:57.940
Other kids will start looking left and right because that's what daddy's told them to do.
371
00:18:58.320 --> 00:18:58.921
Do you know what I mean?
372
00:18:59.341 --> 00:19:04.622
It took me a long time to learn that as a leader, that just because you work best at this way doesn't mean that everybody does.
373
00:19:05.363 --> 00:19:11.705
And you need to set your kind of structure in your business individually to the hires that you make.
374
00:19:12.505 --> 00:19:25.678
Does that mean that based on your read and conversation with individuals, you might say your outcomes-based way of working and your set tasks per day way of working?
375
00:19:26.018 --> 00:19:27.079
Yeah, absolutely.
376
00:19:27.099 --> 00:19:28.420
So it's completely individualised?
377
00:19:28.500 --> 00:19:31.163
Yeah, my interview technique is very much like this.
378
00:19:31.203 --> 00:19:31.983
This is not an interview.
379
00:19:32.003 --> 00:19:34.446
This is me getting to know you, me understanding you.
380
00:19:34.926 --> 00:19:36.787
do you have a skill set that I'm willing to pay for?
381
00:19:37.187 --> 00:19:42.308
Like I treat every interview with members of staff and every member of staff will vouch for this when they come and work for me.
382
00:19:43.268 --> 00:19:44.109
It's a business agreement.
383
00:19:44.709 --> 00:19:51.931
It's a contract of skill set, not I've got this vacancy, you need to convince me that you're the right person for this.
384
00:19:52.511 --> 00:19:53.411
Come on, man.
385
00:19:53.511 --> 00:19:55.752
You wouldn't be sat in front of me if I didn't think you could do the job, right?
386
00:19:56.692 --> 00:19:59.395
At this point now, it's a conversation around, this is what I need.
387
00:19:59.575 --> 00:20:00.135
What do you need?
388
00:20:00.776 --> 00:20:01.397
What are your hopes?
389
00:20:01.437 --> 00:20:02.017
What are your dreams?
390
00:20:02.037 --> 00:20:03.358
What are your ambitions?
391
00:20:03.799 --> 00:20:05.580
Because actually money is a driver for you.
392
00:20:06.341 --> 00:20:13.728
And you're a freelance editor and you want to continue doing some freelance work because you do pick up some really interesting gigs at times.
393
00:20:14.368 --> 00:20:19.472
and I don't expect you to work for me forever, God, I'd be questioning you if three years later you're still working for me.
394
00:20:19.652 --> 00:20:20.172
What are you doing?
395
00:20:20.212 --> 00:20:21.113
Where's your ambition, right?
396
00:20:22.113 --> 00:20:28.818
But if you're going, I want to run my own production company at some point, and this is a step in that direction, and, and, and, great.
397
00:20:29.358 --> 00:20:33.041
Now I can work with that and say, listen, here's my output requirements.
398
00:20:33.541 --> 00:20:36.343
If you can get that done by Wednesday, you've got two days to do whatever you want to do.
399
00:20:37.444 --> 00:20:40.387
whether that's pick up freelance work or actually whether that's just gonna sit on the beach.
400
00:20:40.967 --> 00:20:42.269
That's on you, whatever you wanna do.
401
00:20:42.889 --> 00:20:45.592
I'm not buying your time, I'm buying the output, the skillset.
402
00:20:46.512 --> 00:20:56.222
I think that's where a lot of leaders get caught out because we have this thing of where if as an employee I can finish my work sooner, I won't tell my boss because all they'll do is pile more work onto me.
403
00:20:56.922 --> 00:20:59.665
Which for me, it's sort of like, should be rewarding that behavior.
404
00:21:01.137 --> 00:21:04.159
Give them that time back, not I'm buying your time.
405
00:21:04.359 --> 00:21:07.181
There's a big difference, I think, between those type of leadership mindsets.
406
00:21:08.182 --> 00:21:10.884
I think there's a third one for me.
407
00:21:11.524 --> 00:21:24.873
There's a third one for me, which is you've got a contract in amount of hours, 35, 40, whatever it might be, expectations of deliverables and quality within that time period.
408
00:21:25.513 --> 00:21:27.415
And then there's actually if...
409
00:21:28.175 --> 00:21:35.623
if you complete that in a set amount of time, actually there are opportunities for personal development, stretch tasks, and like entrepreneurialism, maybe.
410
00:21:36.023 --> 00:21:49.337
It's like actually, so if you can do all of that editing work, you can then have your time back, or you can come up with an idea that we haven't thought about and pitch for some budget to make us even better.
411
00:21:49.898 --> 00:21:50.238
Let's do it.
412
00:21:50.338 --> 00:21:51.179
Yeah, that's it.
413
00:21:51.439 --> 00:21:53.340
Funny enough, one of my editors did that.
414
00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:59.623
So he messaged me separately and was like, look, I know you've mentioned this in the group and we're looking for somebody to be our channel manager.
415
00:22:00.543 --> 00:22:04.925
I've got time and I'd love to give it a go because I think that's something I could be really good at.
416
00:22:05.225 --> 00:22:05.385
Yeah.
417
00:22:05.926 --> 00:22:07.306
I'm like, that's what I want, right?
418
00:22:08.047 --> 00:22:08.467
Because again...
419
00:22:10.122 --> 00:22:15.209
We've agreed what you want to be paid, and I make sure that I pay you what you want, not what you were earning.
420
00:22:15.289 --> 00:22:16.350
It's what do you want to be earning?
421
00:22:16.430 --> 00:22:16.671
Great.
422
00:22:16.731 --> 00:22:17.592
Here's what I need from you.
423
00:22:18.213 --> 00:22:18.593
Perfect.
424
00:22:19.234 --> 00:22:22.499
Anything above that, if I'm asking you to take on any more responsibility, I'm going to pay you for that.
425
00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:22.939
Yeah.
426
00:22:23.800 --> 00:22:24.001
Yeah.
427
00:22:25.623 --> 00:22:25.843
Good?
428
00:22:27.105 --> 00:22:27.285
Cool.
429
00:22:28.589 --> 00:22:31.871
Josh is now thinking about his hiring patterns and his team.
430
00:22:31.911 --> 00:22:33.812
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
431
00:22:33.832 --> 00:22:46.120
I do think this is the kind of the difference between businesses that are going to survive the next 15 years, 20 years, versus the ones that are going to really struggle to motivate the next workforce.
432
00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:48.902
I think this is what it's going to come down to, is mindset of leaders.
433
00:22:49.722 --> 00:22:53.745
I think, yeah, I think also just operating model of the business as well.
434
00:22:54.205 --> 00:22:59.549
So there's, you started off talking about, you know, people need less rope than we think.
435
00:23:00.169 --> 00:23:06.734
I think you then shared that actually it's the type of rope, like to stretch the analogy massively.
436
00:23:06.774 --> 00:23:13.919
It's like, actually, what's the, like, what is the contractual mutually beneficial exchange that's going on?
437
00:23:13.939 --> 00:23:14.799
Yeah.
438
00:23:15.600 --> 00:23:26.044
Because actually, I think, look, like, for me, in supporting businesses that are growing and scaling, it's like the optimal thing is getting discretional effort from your employees to want to play for the badge.
439
00:23:26.604 --> 00:23:37.027
Like, if I think of the last recruitment business that I worked in as an employee, the secret sauce there was the CEO was fantastic at getting us to drink the Kool-Aid.
440
00:23:37.547 --> 00:23:39.508
Like, we were all, like, playing for the badge.
441
00:23:40.128 --> 00:23:40.989
All playing for the badge.
442
00:23:41.109 --> 00:23:44.310
And that business has done amazing things because...
443
00:23:45.070 --> 00:23:48.092
I mean, don't get me wrong, people were financially rewarded for making more placements, etc.
444
00:23:48.172 --> 00:23:48.812
and doing more work.
445
00:23:49.333 --> 00:23:53.495
But we all wanted to be part of something that was...
446
00:23:53.515 --> 00:23:54.015
It's the tribalism.
447
00:23:54.235 --> 00:23:54.736
It's the tribalism.
448
00:23:54.756 --> 00:23:55.496
It's the community, right?
449
00:23:56.077 --> 00:23:56.917
Yeah, exactly.
450
00:23:57.537 --> 00:24:02.040
And so I think there's a whole bunch of stuff in there, which is super important.
451
00:24:02.060 --> 00:24:06.483
But I do love that opportunity for people to go and do more.
452
00:24:07.810 --> 00:24:14.276
Once they can do their skill set in their tasks, quality skill set time, it's then like, cool, you've got some free time.
453
00:24:14.697 --> 00:24:17.760
And AI tools enable that productivity.
454
00:24:18.180 --> 00:24:31.493
What I love is like, what do we do with that extra, arguably 20% that can really like transform that person's ability, skill set, interests that we can point and shoot towards where the business is going as well.
455
00:24:31.833 --> 00:24:36.414
And look, and dare I say, I think the key is that you've got to know what these guys want then, right?
456
00:24:37.014 --> 00:24:40.415
You've really got to care about your staff to actually care about where they want to be.
457
00:24:40.815 --> 00:24:48.897
And if that means right at the start, you need to make it clear that, listen, I do not expect you to give me the next 20 years, right?
458
00:24:49.237 --> 00:24:53.478
I'd be very disappointed in you if in two, three years' time you weren't coming to me saying...
459
00:24:53.918 --> 00:24:55.282
Do you remember what I said I wanted to do?
460
00:24:55.784 --> 00:24:57.930
Well, that opportunity is on my table now.
461
00:24:57.950 --> 00:24:58.812
I think I'm ready for it.
462
00:24:59.594 --> 00:25:00.236
That's what I want.
463
00:25:00.256 --> 00:25:01.921
I want to be part of your story, not...
464
00:25:02.894 --> 00:25:04.395
I don't want lifers.
465
00:25:04.415 --> 00:25:07.777
I don't want that kind of, you know, the journeyman team.
466
00:25:07.958 --> 00:25:09.639
I want the team that are like, yeah, we did that.
467
00:25:10.019 --> 00:25:18.705
And I look back and that was a really good period of my time because that helped me get to where I am rather than a bunch of people that are just like, yeah, I want to be here in five years.
468
00:25:18.745 --> 00:25:19.826
I see myself leading a team.
469
00:25:19.886 --> 00:25:20.906
Oh, come on, get over it.
470
00:25:21.787 --> 00:25:24.909
Yeah, unless... We all know that's not true.
471
00:25:25.009 --> 00:25:26.731
Unless they come back and they're like, I want to do this thing.
472
00:25:26.751 --> 00:25:27.411
And you're like, brilliant.
473
00:25:27.891 --> 00:25:28.672
We can create that here.
474
00:25:29.132 --> 00:25:29.633
Well, exactly.
475
00:25:29.653 --> 00:25:30.573
I think that there's that match.
476
00:25:30.633 --> 00:25:36.238
But at that point, the differentiator then is that you're an investor in your people and therefore an investor in their ideas.
477
00:25:36.679 --> 00:25:39.761
And you're giving them an opportunity that otherwise...
478
00:25:40.021 --> 00:25:43.925
Think about as great of the recruitment businesses that we've worked for in the past.
479
00:25:43.965 --> 00:25:46.467
If we'd have gone to our boss and said, listen, I'm spinning off on my own.
480
00:25:46.987 --> 00:25:48.208
Would they have gone, I'll back you?
481
00:25:49.129 --> 00:25:49.569
What do you need?
482
00:25:49.589 --> 00:25:50.610
Let me write you the first check.
483
00:25:50.630 --> 00:25:51.010
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
484
00:25:51.391 --> 00:25:53.312
No, it's immediately like, what do you mean?
485
00:25:53.833 --> 00:25:53.973
Yeah.
486
00:25:54.851 --> 00:25:55.691
you're a traitor.
487
00:25:56.492 --> 00:26:05.094
And I think that level, that kind of mentality is rife in our generation and the generation above us, but it's not in the upcoming generations.
488
00:26:05.194 --> 00:26:06.595
And today it's not a problem.
489
00:26:06.615 --> 00:26:12.397
Today we see Gen Z as lazy and Gen Alpha as, what kind of work are they going to be doing?
490
00:26:13.392 --> 00:26:17.495
But the reality is in the next 10 years, which will fly by because the last 10 years will be there, right?
491
00:26:17.615 --> 00:26:23.959
The next 10 years, those people that we consider to be lazy and unmotivatable and not interested, they're coming into the workforce.
492
00:26:24.039 --> 00:26:28.182
But further than that, they're going to be in decision-making situations and positions.
493
00:26:28.742 --> 00:26:32.105
And they're going to be the ones with budget that we're trying to sell our products and services to.
494
00:26:33.205 --> 00:26:34.907
So actually, we better, like...
495
00:26:35.886 --> 00:26:39.891
pull the rods out of our own arses and figure out how do we entertain and work with these people better?
496
00:26:39.911 --> 00:26:45.417
Because if we're just writing our own death warrant, really, I think, as business owners at this point.
497
00:26:45.617 --> 00:26:47.159
Yeah, yeah, I agree.
498
00:26:47.259 --> 00:26:53.026
And I think the hierarchy pyramid is fully flipped.
499
00:26:53.827 --> 00:26:58.132
You know, leaders have to understand and enable the people in front of them.
500
00:26:58.592 --> 00:27:05.220
Like, as you say, you've really got to understand from the outset and set out the playbook for how you're going to operate.
501
00:27:05.660 --> 00:27:10.746
And the businesses that still think that the CEO is at the top of the pyramid are the ones that are going to struggle.
502
00:27:10.766 --> 00:27:10.966
Yeah.
503
00:27:11.106 --> 00:27:12.146
So this one's a bit different.
504
00:27:12.467 --> 00:27:15.988
I'm actually part of the founding team behind a new exclusive community.
505
00:27:16.348 --> 00:27:17.589
It's called My Spare Seat.
506
00:27:18.109 --> 00:27:23.291
And basically, it's a private auction community for last minute luxury experiences.
507
00:27:23.691 --> 00:27:25.912
Michelin restaurant tables that have just opened up
508
00:27:26.652 --> 00:27:37.595
hospitality at big sporting events, Wimbledon, F1, luxury hotel stays, the kind of things that become available at the last minute because someone just can't use it anymore.
509
00:27:37.875 --> 00:27:46.557
Instead of those things going to waste, it gets posted to the group, members bid on it, highest bid wins, and someone actually gets to make use of that experience.
510
00:27:46.857 --> 00:27:53.398
It's invitation only, deliberately kept small, trusted members, exclusive opportunities, and no noise.
511
00:27:53.818 --> 00:27:55.119
If that sounds like your world,
512
00:27:56.859 --> 00:27:58.680
There's always a spare seat with your name on it.
513
00:28:03.341 --> 00:28:05.022
Should we do this decision sprint?
514
00:28:05.042 --> 00:28:05.522
Let's do it.
515
00:28:05.582 --> 00:28:06.082
Let's have a go.
516
00:28:06.362 --> 00:28:06.862
Let's have a play.
517
00:28:07.022 --> 00:28:09.643
So you know how this works.
518
00:28:11.144 --> 00:28:11.804
I've got five cards.
519
00:28:12.504 --> 00:28:14.005
You get to pick one of the five.
520
00:28:14.705 --> 00:28:18.366
And then you get to read it to yourself and decide whether you want it or not.
521
00:28:18.426 --> 00:28:19.126
And you can pass once.
522
00:28:19.466 --> 00:28:19.726
Okay.
523
00:28:19.826 --> 00:28:20.087
Okay.
524
00:28:20.227 --> 00:28:24.048
So once you've done that and agreed your card, then five minutes on the clock...
525
00:28:25.037 --> 00:28:30.059
Josh will activate, activate, I like that, activate the plaud, and then we'll get into it.
526
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:36.381
You don't have to use all five minutes, all right, but use as much as you can to make sure you've answered the question fully.
527
00:28:36.581 --> 00:28:37.822
That's my only guide.
528
00:28:38.482 --> 00:28:38.662
Yeah.
529
00:28:38.902 --> 00:28:39.322
Happy?
530
00:28:39.422 --> 00:28:42.283
Detail over trying to fill the time with, yeah.
531
00:28:42.303 --> 00:28:42.984
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
532
00:28:43.144 --> 00:28:43.744
Cool, right.
533
00:28:44.844 --> 00:28:45.245
Over to you.
534
00:28:45.285 --> 00:28:46.805
And I'm not going to do any like Darren Brown moving.
535
00:28:46.825 --> 00:28:48.126
You just go for that one.
536
00:28:48.626 --> 00:28:48.846
Cool.
537
00:28:50.146 --> 00:28:50.787
Number four.
538
00:28:51.527 --> 00:28:52.167
Trust card.
539
00:28:54.228 --> 00:28:54.468
Okay.
540
00:28:55.844 --> 00:28:56.664
Want to read it out?
541
00:28:56.844 --> 00:28:57.625
Well, are you happy with it?
542
00:28:58.125 --> 00:28:58.305
Yeah.
543
00:28:58.625 --> 00:28:58.805
Yeah?
544
00:28:58.945 --> 00:28:59.545
Yeah, yeah.
545
00:28:59.565 --> 00:29:00.646
Okay, so I'll read it out.
546
00:29:01.326 --> 00:29:04.907
I'll read it out just because it gives you an opportunity to hear it out loud.
547
00:29:04.947 --> 00:29:06.208
Just please, yeah.
548
00:29:06.348 --> 00:29:06.708
Cool.
549
00:29:06.868 --> 00:29:08.769
Knitting's got the trust card number four.
550
00:29:09.529 --> 00:29:10.369
The scenario is this.
551
00:29:10.469 --> 00:29:12.470
You've learned something you can't unlearn.
552
00:29:13.170 --> 00:29:17.832
Someone in your area of responsibility, someone respected, someone visible, is crossing a line.
553
00:29:18.712 --> 00:29:21.833
The pattern is becoming impossible to ignore and the evidence is clear.
554
00:29:22.453 --> 00:29:27.555
There's an all hands meeting in five days where this person will be publicly recognised for their work.
555
00:29:28.315 --> 00:29:30.276
Saying nothing before then is a choice.
556
00:29:30.636 --> 00:29:30.896
All right.
557
00:29:30.916 --> 00:29:31.737
You could let them crack on.
558
00:29:32.317 --> 00:29:35.678
Saying something damages them and possibly your own standing.
559
00:29:36.698 --> 00:29:37.779
What is your move?
560
00:29:39.084 --> 00:29:39.824
That's the question.
561
00:29:39.904 --> 00:29:43.485
So before you crack on, let's see if I can figure this out.
562
00:29:44.185 --> 00:29:45.926
I managed to put it onto 15 minutes earlier.
563
00:29:47.026 --> 00:29:50.307
I'll waffle, but I think I'll be all right on this.
564
00:29:50.327 --> 00:29:51.067
Yeah, yeah, cool.
565
00:29:51.107 --> 00:29:51.467
Here we go.
566
00:29:51.507 --> 00:29:52.327
Right, five minutes.
567
00:29:52.347 --> 00:29:54.328
Josh, we good on the plaud?
568
00:29:54.348 --> 00:29:54.728
We are now rolling.
569
00:29:57.709 --> 00:29:58.369
Five minutes.
570
00:29:59.369 --> 00:30:00.109
Start, oh, look at that.
571
00:30:00.169 --> 00:30:01.269
Starts now.
572
00:30:01.570 --> 00:30:02.090
Right, okay.
573
00:30:05.102 --> 00:30:07.803
First, I'm going to caveat this, right?
574
00:30:08.003 --> 00:30:13.605
I think the concept of crossing the line is very malleable.
575
00:30:13.725 --> 00:30:15.765
My moral compass is going to be different to yours.
576
00:30:15.785 --> 00:30:17.045
It's going to be different to other people's.
577
00:30:17.085 --> 00:30:20.927
I'm going to come at this from the perspective that I consider this to be crossing the line.
578
00:30:21.647 --> 00:30:24.808
And if I'm considering it to be crossing the line, the answer is really simple.
579
00:30:25.408 --> 00:30:26.768
Leaving it alone is not a problem.
580
00:30:27.308 --> 00:30:28.089
It's not an option.
581
00:30:28.189 --> 00:30:30.429
That is not something I'm going to be doing.
582
00:30:30.989 --> 00:30:32.270
I would...
583
00:30:33.630 --> 00:30:42.016
first of all, have a conversation with this person for the reason that I work on the basis that I'd never say something to you or about you.
584
00:30:42.696 --> 00:30:47.739
I would never say something about you to other people that I wouldn't say to you, to your face, right?
585
00:30:49.360 --> 00:30:51.042
They're getting recognised for their work.
586
00:30:51.102 --> 00:30:58.266
I'm assuming, and this is maybe a leap, but some of the work that they're getting recognised for is something to do with the line that's being crossed, you know?
587
00:30:59.087 --> 00:30:59.187
Yeah.
588
00:31:01.383 --> 00:31:02.124
I wouldn't allow it to happen.
589
00:31:02.664 --> 00:31:11.370
I wouldn't allow it to happen in all good faith for the reason that, regardless of whether it damages my own standings, this has happened on my watch, right?
590
00:31:11.410 --> 00:31:12.851
This has happened...
591
00:31:13.732 --> 00:31:16.414
If it's going to impact me, this is something that's happened under my nose.
592
00:31:16.874 --> 00:31:21.258
So therefore, I must bear some responsibility for the issue at hand.
593
00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:28.823
Again, coming at this from the perspective of what I consider to be crossing a line, this wouldn't be something that I would just sit quietly about either.
594
00:31:29.043 --> 00:31:30.144
So I would go to...
595
00:31:31.205 --> 00:31:41.713
kind of my higher ops and anybody involved in the leadership chain and kind of make it abundantly clear that this is what's happening or has happened, continuing to happen.
596
00:31:42.373 --> 00:31:47.437
We're about to recognise this person in a public domain for their achievements and so on, and it just isn't right.
597
00:31:48.538 --> 00:31:55.963
And I would, yeah, I'd challenge it and kind of take the blowout that comes regardless.
598
00:31:59.286 --> 00:31:59.746
Anything else?
599
00:32:01.250 --> 00:32:01.911
It doesn't have to be.
600
00:32:04.953 --> 00:32:05.734
I'd want to...
601
00:32:06.054 --> 00:32:19.845
I think I'd feel compelled to tell this person or explain to this person why I'm behaving in the way that I am around kind of my own personal, you know, decision-making, my own personal kind of...
602
00:32:21.025 --> 00:32:48.017
moral compass I would assume that this person would try to convince me otherwise in terms of the damage that it would do to them and so on and so forth but again if it's something I consider to be crossing a line there's really not much anybody can say to make me think no I'm not going to do this most people know where the line is and when they've crossed it they just hope they get away with it it doesn't happen with me and that's it we're done stop that
603
00:32:51.398 --> 00:32:51.898
All good, Josh?
604
00:32:52.499 --> 00:32:52.679
All good.
605
00:32:52.699 --> 00:32:52.999
Great.
606
00:32:55.961 --> 00:32:58.542
I think it's really interesting that we both know Psy.
607
00:32:58.822 --> 00:32:58.982
Yeah.
608
00:32:59.202 --> 00:33:00.863
And you've got the same card.
609
00:33:01.263 --> 00:33:01.924
Yeah.
610
00:33:02.164 --> 00:33:04.825
I thought that when I was like, I think this is the same one that Psy had.
611
00:33:04.845 --> 00:33:06.967
This is the one that Psy had.
612
00:33:07.127 --> 00:33:12.730
He's going to hate that as well, though, because I'm not competitive at all, but he is really competitive, but not in a bad way, right?
613
00:33:12.790 --> 00:33:12.970
Yeah.
614
00:33:13.030 --> 00:33:14.811
And he's going to be like, he better not score better than me.
615
00:33:15.011 --> 00:33:16.592
At this point, he's going to be watching this going...
616
00:33:17.112 --> 00:33:18.173
he better not get better than me.
617
00:33:18.253 --> 00:33:20.134
Whereas I'm like, I hope I don't.
618
00:33:20.254 --> 00:33:21.414
So let's do this.
619
00:33:21.795 --> 00:33:22.955
Let's do this.
620
00:33:23.576 --> 00:33:29.659
We'll both WhatsApp him and we'll just say, same card, but we're not telling you the score and he's going to have to wait.
621
00:33:29.939 --> 00:33:31.280
Do you know what?
622
00:33:31.300 --> 00:33:34.181
He's going to have to wait until it comes out.
623
00:33:35.842 --> 00:33:37.402
So, question for you.
624
00:33:37.422 --> 00:33:38.263
How did you find that?
625
00:33:38.283 --> 00:33:40.083
When you got the card, what was your initial reaction?
626
00:33:40.563 --> 00:33:45.864
I'm trying to paint a picture in my head of something that perhaps has happened and stuff, that I can kind of relate it to.
627
00:33:46.124 --> 00:33:48.065
And there was a few different things.
628
00:33:49.785 --> 00:33:54.566
But I was ready to jump straight to the answer, because I think for me it was like, I know the answer to this.
629
00:33:55.746 --> 00:33:58.467
It's really key for me to explain what I mean by that, in that...
630
00:33:59.668 --> 00:34:06.710
Like, if I consider someone to be crossing the line, then I'm convicted, that's it, they'll cross the line.
631
00:34:07.190 --> 00:34:12.232
And then I have this, like, kind of, my wife calls it a Messiah syndrome of, like, no, I need to do something about that.
632
00:34:12.652 --> 00:34:15.253
Like, I can't allow that to happen, that's not right, you know?
633
00:34:16.435 --> 00:34:20.862
and I always have this compelling need to be like, you need to step in now.
634
00:34:21.342 --> 00:34:22.023
No one else is going to do it.
635
00:34:22.043 --> 00:34:23.526
You need to go in and do it.
636
00:34:23.746 --> 00:34:24.768
It's a little devil on my shoulders.
637
00:34:24.788 --> 00:34:25.669
It's like a sense of justice.
638
00:34:25.870 --> 00:34:26.931
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
639
00:34:26.971 --> 00:34:30.938
Whether it's justice, as I say, whether it's Messiah syndrome, whether it's a little devil that's just like, go on.
640
00:34:31.578 --> 00:34:32.439
Just do it.
641
00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:38.262
I feel very fortunate to be in the position that I am in that I don't have a boss.
642
00:34:38.282 --> 00:34:39.403
I don't have anyone to answer to.
643
00:34:39.423 --> 00:34:43.725
So when I see something that doesn't sit right with me, I'm quite happy to call it out and be like, that's bullshit.
644
00:34:43.865 --> 00:34:45.326
Do you know what I mean?
645
00:34:45.506 --> 00:34:47.628
But yeah, in that sort of a scenario, it's sort of like...
646
00:34:48.308 --> 00:34:56.637
There's a pattern, you can't ignore it, it's clear evidence, and if above all else I've considered this to be crossing a line, then I can't just turn away from that, it's not right.
647
00:34:57.117 --> 00:35:01.582
Regardless of kind of, the whole thing was impossibly your own standing, that don't matter to me.
648
00:35:02.062 --> 00:35:03.944
I don't really care what other people think of me.
649
00:35:05.366 --> 00:35:06.667
I care about what's right and wrong, right?
650
00:35:06.935 --> 00:35:07.195
Yeah, yeah.
651
00:35:07.956 --> 00:35:08.156
Yeah.
652
00:35:08.196 --> 00:35:15.660
And I think, I mean, look, the way the scenario is designed is it's designed to put little landmines in there, left, right and centre.
653
00:35:15.800 --> 00:35:17.201
Like, am I answering that correctly?
654
00:35:18.041 --> 00:35:24.185
Am I going to, I guess, stay true to my kind of instincts?
655
00:35:25.205 --> 00:35:26.486
Have you had a scenario like that in the past?
656
00:35:29.193 --> 00:35:30.896
A variety of different things.
657
00:35:31.397 --> 00:35:33.161
A variety of different things.
658
00:35:33.381 --> 00:35:37.309
The one that jumps to mind is kind of
659
00:35:39.352 --> 00:35:45.575
a situation around kind of potential sexual harassment at work, right?
660
00:35:45.955 --> 00:35:51.217
And at the time, I've got, like, a newly-born little girl, and I'm, like, I'm seeing the world differently as a girl dad now.
661
00:35:51.838 --> 00:35:52.818
And I'm like, that's not right.
662
00:35:52.858 --> 00:35:53.818
I'm not having that.
663
00:35:53.939 --> 00:35:55.099
I can't have that, you know?
664
00:35:55.839 --> 00:35:59.481
And, you know, went straight into it, like, what are you doing?
665
00:35:59.501 --> 00:36:02.582
They say, no, either you leave or I'll make you leave kind of thing.
666
00:36:02.963 --> 00:36:03.203
Yeah.
667
00:36:04.623 --> 00:36:05.804
There's, I mean, out of that...
668
00:36:06.828 --> 00:36:12.692
It's a shame that it took me being a girl dad to not look and find that funny and actually see it in a different light.
669
00:36:13.473 --> 00:36:23.520
But I'm also then very grateful that I had the opportunity to grow and learn and develop as a 30-something-year-old to watch something happen and be like, that ain't right, I'm not allowing that to happen.
670
00:36:23.680 --> 00:36:23.980
Yeah, yeah.
671
00:36:24.560 --> 00:36:26.162
And I think our life...
672
00:36:27.002 --> 00:36:33.147
our life experiences frame our, like probably focus our moral compass, don't they?
673
00:36:33.427 --> 00:36:34.068
Yeah, absolutely.
674
00:36:34.088 --> 00:36:39.632
Like it's just really focusing and then things that you experience at home become things you notice more often.
675
00:36:39.652 --> 00:36:43.295
You can't help but have that bleed into work and life.
676
00:36:43.855 --> 00:36:44.176
100%.
677
00:36:44.476 --> 00:36:46.498
I think where you are in life as well, right?
678
00:36:46.598 --> 00:36:49.040
And the level of comfort that you have at that point.
679
00:36:49.760 --> 00:37:15.949
dictates whether or not you will do something that will perhaps risk your standing or not right I think when you're more confident and comfortable with the stability that you've got with the ground beneath you you're probably more likely to step out and say no I'm not having that whereas if you're kind of on a deck of cards already and you're really uncomfortable and saying something could cost me dearly then that 50-50 chance could be the thing that drives you to say I can't say anything as much as I want to
680
00:37:18.511 --> 00:37:21.053
That wasn't your Messiah complex, that was just the light going off.
681
00:37:21.134 --> 00:37:21.694
That was okay, wasn't it?
682
00:37:21.894 --> 00:37:23.837
Yeah, yeah, they're like motion sensing every so often.
683
00:37:23.857 --> 00:37:24.497
They caught on control.
684
00:37:24.778 --> 00:37:28.922
They hit up, I was like, no, you're wrong.
685
00:37:29.623 --> 00:37:36.771
I think this is really interesting as a challenge because there's scenarios in every business.
686
00:37:39.417 --> 00:37:43.118
how do I not paint salespeople into a bad corner?
687
00:37:43.518 --> 00:37:54.142
I think that there are, I've seen so many incidences where sales revenue generators in particular that exhibit across the line behaviors get forgiven.
688
00:37:55.582 --> 00:37:59.844
Or blind, you know, you're like, well, look at that, because they drop a million into the P&L.
689
00:38:00.444 --> 00:38:02.825
And I think- I was one of those people.
690
00:38:03.665 --> 00:38:06.486
As in, I was one of those people that used to be able to get away with a lot.
691
00:38:07.146 --> 00:38:11.109
Because my numbers allowed me to kind of go, what are you going to do?
692
00:38:11.550 --> 00:38:12.170
Yeah.
693
00:38:12.631 --> 00:38:14.232
I'll walk out and walk into a different job, right?
694
00:38:14.881 --> 00:38:17.742
I spent 22 years running leadership workshops.
695
00:38:17.902 --> 00:38:23.625
People left the room inspired, but six weeks later, nothing had changed in how they were managing their teams.
696
00:38:23.885 --> 00:38:27.207
Nobody was measuring the only thing that counts behavior.
697
00:38:27.647 --> 00:38:29.168
And this is why we built a theory.
698
00:38:29.408 --> 00:38:35.931
A theory of develop works where your managers already work in Microsoft Teams, Slack, Outlook and Google.
699
00:38:36.091 --> 00:38:41.174
It measures how they actually lead and then coaches them in the moment in your language.
700
00:38:41.354 --> 00:38:44.255
Privacy first patterns, never content.
701
00:38:44.335 --> 00:38:52.061
Check it out at getetherio.com.
702
00:38:53.422 --> 00:38:54.944
So yeah, I've witnessed it.
703
00:38:55.004 --> 00:38:56.345
I completely agree with you.
704
00:38:56.465 --> 00:38:59.948
It's not right, but again, it's one of those things, isn't it?
705
00:39:01.429 --> 00:39:04.071
It takes all sorts to make the world go round.
706
00:39:04.211 --> 00:39:05.112
It does take all sorts.
707
00:39:05.212 --> 00:39:05.992
It does take all sorts.
708
00:39:06.013 --> 00:39:07.694
And I think creating...
709
00:39:09.195 --> 00:39:19.908
you've got to be so purposeful about the culture you want to create as a leader to be able to say, actually, I would rather take...
710
00:39:20.589 --> 00:39:25.354
I would rather take protecting the culture over that short-term revenue.
711
00:39:26.035 --> 00:39:26.776
Because ultimately...
712
00:39:28.210 --> 00:39:30.732
I mean, we've probably both seen it and experienced it.
713
00:39:31.973 --> 00:39:38.017
Once you let that go once, other people see it and they're like, well, now I've got some revenue under my belt.
714
00:39:38.557 --> 00:39:38.878
I might.
715
00:39:39.018 --> 00:39:39.938
You set precedent.
716
00:39:40.178 --> 00:39:41.920
Yeah.
717
00:39:42.040 --> 00:39:43.241
And then that shapes the culture.
718
00:39:44.041 --> 00:39:48.064
We'll say like, you know, we talk about like your brand as a business and like,
719
00:39:49.577 --> 00:39:52.238
You know, your brand isn't decided around a boardroom.
720
00:39:52.798 --> 00:39:54.398
You can't decide what your brand is.
721
00:39:54.818 --> 00:39:58.279
Your people will dictate your brand because your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room.
722
00:39:59.239 --> 00:40:02.260
And your people are the ones out and about doing the daily do, right?
723
00:40:03.140 --> 00:40:06.820
That's what's dictating what people think and feel about your particular business and your particular brand.
724
00:40:07.581 --> 00:40:13.642
Yeah, and that's when you get that disconnect between the values on the wall and actually, like, how people are behaving whilst they're there.
725
00:40:15.082 --> 00:40:24.069
Yeah, I can remember being a few years ago now, I was in the boardroom of a customer and it was like glass wall, that side.
726
00:40:24.089 --> 00:40:26.931
They're all sat there and we're talking about their culture and their value.
727
00:40:26.951 --> 00:40:30.774
They were talking about some of the challenges they were having in terms of leadership, et cetera.
728
00:40:30.814 --> 00:40:35.157
And behind them, glass, meter and wall were their values on the wall.
729
00:40:35.658 --> 00:40:40.001
And what they were talking about, you know, were contradictory to all of those values.
730
00:40:40.862 --> 00:40:42.383
I remember just thinking to myself, yeah.
731
00:40:42.997 --> 00:40:49.841
wow, like, you know, you've got to be so, like when you put stuff up on the wall, you've then got to be so mindful about it day to day.
732
00:40:50.681 --> 00:40:53.743
But it doesn't, my observation is it doesn't change overnight.
733
00:40:53.923 --> 00:40:56.585
It changes like one thing like this at a time.
734
00:40:56.605 --> 00:40:59.106
Yeah, one bit of activity, one decision each time, right?
735
00:40:59.166 --> 00:40:59.386
Yeah.
736
00:40:59.706 --> 00:41:02.008
And look, oftentimes, and I was guilty of this, right?
737
00:41:02.488 --> 00:41:10.873
Oftentimes when you're an SMB, a small business, trying to just make it through and trying to get the bills paid, revenue takes precedent, right?
738
00:41:12.214 --> 00:41:39.734
I use this example all the time We went from being incredibly picky about the work That we were participating in And the clients that we were working with To picking like It wasn't even low hanging fruit anymore This was rotten fruit and veg off the floor And we were calling it a fee Like you know This client's not going to pay We know they're not going to pay But the debt's insured And the invoice financing company can deal with it Yeah They're the things that are driving these decisions And this behaviour Yeah Like if you're just looking to get You know I need to meet payroll Yeah
739
00:41:40.334 --> 00:41:41.955
And then that's just one way down, isn't it?
740
00:41:41.975 --> 00:41:43.336
You're just looking down, you're looking down.
741
00:41:43.356 --> 00:41:46.139
Do you want to have a look at your score?
742
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:47.840
Please, yeah, yeah.
743
00:41:47.880 --> 00:41:49.001
So, are we ready?
744
00:41:49.021 --> 00:41:50.242
We are ready.
745
00:41:50.262 --> 00:41:51.383
Okay, let's have a look.
746
00:41:54.025 --> 00:41:56.026
Oh, 62.
747
00:41:56.307 --> 00:41:57.988
Is that good?
748
00:41:58.028 --> 00:42:00.250
62, what, top five?
749
00:42:01.385 --> 00:42:05.646
Top five, I think that puts you, I'm going to go fourth.
750
00:42:06.726 --> 00:42:08.267
I think that puts you fourth so far.
751
00:42:08.847 --> 00:42:10.387
So have a look at the score.
752
00:42:10.427 --> 00:42:13.448
So Catalyst was your archetype over there on the left.
753
00:42:13.468 --> 00:42:15.129
We'll talk a bit about that.
754
00:42:15.349 --> 00:42:16.369
So your five dimensions.
755
00:42:17.830 --> 00:42:20.430
I don't think we've seen a conviction score that high.
756
00:42:22.591 --> 00:42:23.411
No, my jaw dropped.
757
00:42:23.451 --> 00:42:24.691
92% is massive.
758
00:42:24.711 --> 00:42:30.393
Yeah, so have a little read of the strengths and the watchouts, and then let's have a...
759
00:42:44.001 --> 00:42:46.483
Yeah, I agree with the watch out.
760
00:42:47.323 --> 00:42:50.245
However, I will stand by the fact that it didn't really matter who it is.
761
00:42:51.990 --> 00:42:53.491
From CEO to the cleaner.
762
00:42:54.452 --> 00:42:55.913
Like, if they're crossing the line, they're crossing the line.
763
00:42:55.953 --> 00:42:56.613
It doesn't matter who you are.
764
00:42:56.814 --> 00:42:57.034
Yeah.
765
00:42:58.114 --> 00:42:58.415
Yeah.
766
00:42:58.475 --> 00:42:58.775
Yeah.
767
00:42:58.795 --> 00:43:03.458
So I think, look, like, you started off, for me, like, feedback?
768
00:43:04.139 --> 00:43:04.559
Please.
769
00:43:04.579 --> 00:43:05.280
Yeah, yeah, of course.
770
00:43:05.300 --> 00:43:09.262
So this is great because it's like a live little coaching session now.
771
00:43:09.623 --> 00:43:12.445
So conviction, like, yeah, came across in spades.
772
00:43:12.505 --> 00:43:13.706
You know your moral compass.
773
00:43:13.766 --> 00:43:15.207
You know your line, et cetera.
774
00:43:16.247 --> 00:43:21.129
you weren't, the question wasn't able to derail you, like possibly your own standing.
775
00:43:21.149 --> 00:43:22.869
You're like, I'm not falling for that.
776
00:43:23.129 --> 00:43:31.091
Trade-off articulation, you started straight away with, there's gonna be two sides to this, the person, the company, et cetera.
777
00:43:31.111 --> 00:43:33.152
So you were able to articulate that really, really well.
778
00:43:33.792 --> 00:43:35.593
Decision speed, yeah, super high.
779
00:43:35.813 --> 00:43:36.873
You were straight into it.
780
00:43:37.513 --> 00:43:39.934
And your strategic clarity was pretty high as well.
781
00:43:40.094 --> 00:43:55.339
The operator density bit was about actually getting into the nuts and bolts of, I would speak to this person, this is what we would say, this would be the approach of how we would stop that person talking, etc.
782
00:43:55.920 --> 00:44:02.962
There's one layer that I think in the operator density bit you could have gone into, which is...
783
00:44:04.397 --> 00:44:09.181
The person has, it's visible they're crossing the line, the pattern has become impossible.
784
00:44:10.442 --> 00:44:16.866
What happens if that person is just going for a super tough time?
785
00:44:17.707 --> 00:44:23.451
And actually, it's not a vindictive thing, it's a something else thing.
786
00:44:24.538 --> 00:44:35.567
And so I think the operator density bit is, is there an opportunity to look under the rock and go, actually, it's a bit ugly under there, but is there something else going on in life?
787
00:44:35.607 --> 00:44:36.328
Yeah, I hear that.
788
00:44:36.668 --> 00:44:38.269
But this comes back to the conviction thing.
789
00:44:38.289 --> 00:44:39.851
For me, it's sort of like, so what?
790
00:44:40.131 --> 00:44:41.012
Everyone's dealing with stuff.
791
00:44:41.432 --> 00:44:42.333
Everybody's got problems.
792
00:44:42.994 --> 00:44:46.379
Listen, I had a business partner who, you know, we were like brothers.
793
00:44:47.441 --> 00:44:57.096
And he left me in a really bad way, you know, having taken like fraudulent loans out and things like that against me, because he was in a bad financial situation.
794
00:44:58.420 --> 00:45:00.742
Like, that doesn't matter to me.
795
00:45:01.063 --> 00:45:02.464
Oh, I'm like this because of this.
796
00:45:03.385 --> 00:45:05.126
My dad was an alcoholic and a missing father.
797
00:45:06.027 --> 00:45:07.509
I'm the best dad that I can be.
798
00:45:08.450 --> 00:45:08.990
Do you know what I mean?
799
00:45:09.030 --> 00:45:14.395
Like, that trade-off thing doesn't work in my very kind of autistic mind.
800
00:45:14.535 --> 00:45:15.496
It's just like, yeah, I don't care.
801
00:45:15.877 --> 00:45:16.317
I don't care.
802
00:45:16.457 --> 00:45:17.538
You know you're doing something wrong.
803
00:45:17.979 --> 00:45:20.561
It doesn't matter whether you can justify it to yourself or not.
804
00:45:21.782 --> 00:45:22.462
It really doesn't matter.
805
00:45:22.883 --> 00:45:23.103
Yeah.
806
00:45:23.123 --> 00:45:26.345
Like, if you're doing something that you shouldn't be doing, and you know you shouldn't be doing it, don't do it.
807
00:45:27.105 --> 00:45:28.346
It's pretty simple, right?
808
00:45:28.446 --> 00:45:29.166
Yeah, yeah.
809
00:45:29.226 --> 00:45:30.307
And that comes across.
810
00:45:30.327 --> 00:45:31.287
That comes across.
811
00:45:31.748 --> 00:45:34.149
My challenge to that is, I think, that...
812
00:45:34.849 --> 00:45:35.510
I think that that...
813
00:45:36.693 --> 00:45:38.175
There's a risk.
814
00:45:38.195 --> 00:45:48.846
There's a risk that that true North Star piece can potentially create some collateral damage because of past experiences.
815
00:45:48.866 --> 00:45:50.708
And we're all built on those past experiences.
816
00:45:50.748 --> 00:45:54.612
You've just very eloquently shared two reasons why
817
00:45:55.842 --> 00:45:57.944
your decision sprint answer was what it was.
818
00:45:58.624 --> 00:46:05.489
And I think that this, as an opportunity, is like nine times out of ten, you're probably right.
819
00:46:06.109 --> 00:46:12.113
It's the one time out of ten where actually you might act when there might be something else going on.
820
00:46:12.133 --> 00:46:12.453
Yeah, yeah.
821
00:46:12.594 --> 00:46:15.676
And there might be some collateral damage that falls out of that with that person.
822
00:46:16.196 --> 00:46:16.656
Is that fair?
823
00:46:16.816 --> 00:46:17.677
No, I think that's really fair.
824
00:46:17.697 --> 00:46:18.558
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
825
00:46:19.238 --> 00:46:20.339
How did you find the whole experience?
826
00:46:20.899 --> 00:46:21.220
It was good.
827
00:46:21.240 --> 00:46:21.820
I enjoyed it.
828
00:46:22.380 --> 00:46:23.181
Yeah.
829
00:46:23.301 --> 00:46:24.242
It wasn't a...
830
00:46:25.658 --> 00:46:27.359
It wasn't something that I had to think too hard about.
831
00:46:27.620 --> 00:46:29.962
Like, you know, I try and approach everything like that.
832
00:46:30.022 --> 00:46:30.882
Just sort of, just do it.
833
00:46:31.343 --> 00:46:31.483
Yeah.
834
00:46:31.783 --> 00:46:33.485
You know, don't over-prep, just do it.
835
00:46:33.845 --> 00:46:36.527
So we won't tell everyone about the reams of notes you walked in with?
836
00:46:36.867 --> 00:46:37.848
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
837
00:46:37.868 --> 00:46:39.169
Full of, full of, yeah, yeah.
838
00:46:39.189 --> 00:46:40.110
So I've watched every episode.
839
00:46:40.150 --> 00:46:45.174
I've watched every episode, I've prepped, I'm ready to go, I've got my... Can you put the trust card on number four and I can pick that one, please?
840
00:46:45.194 --> 00:46:45.755
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
841
00:46:46.756 --> 00:46:54.007
So I've had challenges from people saying to me, but what happens when people come on and they know the five cards and they've prepped their answers?
842
00:46:54.107 --> 00:46:55.669
And my answer to that is...
843
00:46:56.677 --> 00:46:57.558
Guests will see that.
844
00:46:58.378 --> 00:47:08.927
Either they'll turn up with five notes or an iPad or whatever, or actually their answer will just be crap because it will just be so metronomic and bullet points.
845
00:47:09.287 --> 00:47:11.048
And then everything will be the centre of the park, right?
846
00:47:11.208 --> 00:47:12.830
Because you've tried to game the system.
847
00:47:12.850 --> 00:47:17.794
This is like any sort of personality tests and behavioural judgement tests and stuff like that.
848
00:47:18.394 --> 00:47:20.155
You can tell when someone's tried to trick the system.
849
00:47:20.436 --> 00:47:23.318
Yeah, and also we've built Failsafe in there.
850
00:47:23.818 --> 00:47:48.670
so if you're too good you just get a picture that's it we haven't but we should we really should we really should nice try um we i'm building that that that's the next iteration i'm building that you've prepped too much josh can press like button i'm gonna get cancelled in the us now aren't i we're gonna get like yeah you said like you said that name way too many times for this to do numbers on youtube now like you know that right yeah
851
00:47:48.910 --> 00:48:14.412
you will get shadow banned you'll have to when you're editing this josh make sure you just leave it out i'm genuinely as well like we've had four episodes shadow banned because the guest has mentioned him and youtube are like that's political content you're like well it's not is it contextually speaking they're like no okay cool so we're actually editing that yeah we'll keep the name no you won't keep the name we'll keep the content but we'll beat the name just leave the
852
00:48:17.568 --> 00:48:21.872
Saeed was third with 56.
853
00:48:21.912 --> 00:48:22.652
Oh, Saeed was third?
854
00:48:23.093 --> 00:48:23.313
Yes.
855
00:48:23.333 --> 00:48:24.414
So you beat Saeed.
856
00:48:24.454 --> 00:48:25.074
Oh, no.
857
00:48:25.174 --> 00:48:26.736
And he doesn't know until now.
858
00:48:26.756 --> 00:48:28.757
Yeah, he's not going to like that either.
859
00:48:28.837 --> 00:48:29.138
Amazing.
860
00:48:29.298 --> 00:48:30.399
Saeed, I'm sorry, bro.
861
00:48:30.439 --> 00:48:31.139
Like, genuinely.
862
00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:32.440
I know this probably means a lot more.
863
00:48:32.460 --> 00:48:33.782
This is down the lens as well.
864
00:48:33.822 --> 00:48:36.264
Yeah, this probably means a lot more to you than it does to me.
865
00:48:36.384 --> 00:48:37.745
And I'm genuinely really sorry.
866
00:48:38.245 --> 00:48:39.406
Like, he's so competitive.
867
00:48:39.426 --> 00:48:40.147
He's going to hate that.
868
00:48:40.407 --> 00:48:41.648
Like, he loves his sports.
869
00:48:41.708 --> 00:48:42.969
And, like, you know, he's really into that.
870
00:48:42.989 --> 00:48:44.150
So I couldn't care less.
871
00:48:44.230 --> 00:48:45.071
I'm just like, yeah, cool, man.
872
00:48:45.311 --> 00:48:55.075
Yeah, and also I was like, as long as I'm not bottom, I'm good And also, Cy finished And he won't, you won't mind me saying this, Cy He also said, I need to come back on He did, didn't he?
873
00:48:55.095 --> 00:49:03.398
Yeah, yeah, yeah He was like, yeah, come back on Yeah, yeah, yeah, come back on Because he'll try and game it next time Yeah What's really funny is I'm fairly certain his operator's density was low as well
874
00:49:03.766 --> 00:49:14.095
His operator density, yes, because what you share is a very sound basis on your moral compass.
875
00:49:14.255 --> 00:49:14.455
Yeah.
876
00:49:14.715 --> 00:49:16.256
So his conviction was high.
877
00:49:16.657 --> 00:49:19.619
His decision speed was high as well.
878
00:49:21.161 --> 00:49:22.522
His conviction was not as...
879
00:49:22.602 --> 00:49:23.222
He'll be gutted.
880
00:49:23.262 --> 00:49:25.204
His conviction was not as... That's the one metric.
881
00:49:25.224 --> 00:49:27.086
That's because he takes longer to think.
882
00:49:27.326 --> 00:49:28.507
I'm a... Yeah, I'm a...
883
00:49:28.987 --> 00:49:29.728
You know what I mean?
884
00:49:29.828 --> 00:49:32.130
Even if I'm wrong, I'll say it with confusion.
885
00:49:32.150 --> 00:49:38.996
Whereas he thinks things through a lot more because he's just a better thinker than I am, I think.
886
00:49:39.016 --> 00:49:41.438
Well, he's an ops wizard.
887
00:49:41.458 --> 00:49:41.798
That's it.
888
00:49:41.978 --> 00:49:48.524
And that takes reflection time and composure and understanding all the variables to make the right decision.
889
00:49:48.544 --> 00:49:49.125
100%.
890
00:49:49.145 --> 00:49:51.587
So I think, Josh, that puts Knit in third.
891
00:49:51.627 --> 00:49:51.727
Yeah.
892
00:49:54.583 --> 00:49:54.923
Second?
893
00:49:57.585 --> 00:49:58.786
That puts him at number two.
894
00:49:58.806 --> 00:49:59.927
Well, hey, top two.
895
00:49:59.987 --> 00:50:02.629
So what you need to do now is you need to watch Natalie's episode.
896
00:50:02.689 --> 00:50:02.889
Right.
897
00:50:03.169 --> 00:50:06.612
She didn't get the trust question, but she's number one.
898
00:50:07.152 --> 00:50:07.472
So...
899
00:50:09.305 --> 00:50:10.445
She was also a catalyst.
900
00:50:10.545 --> 00:50:13.846
So catalysts score well on the decisions print.
901
00:50:14.026 --> 00:50:14.726
Mate, it's been a joy.
902
00:50:14.806 --> 00:50:16.027
Mate, genuinely, I love this format.
903
00:50:16.827 --> 00:50:17.987
I watched the first one.
904
00:50:18.007 --> 00:50:19.647
I was like, wow, I like this.
905
00:50:19.667 --> 00:50:20.728
This is cool.
906
00:50:20.748 --> 00:50:21.708
There's a lot of jeopardy for Josh.
907
00:50:21.728 --> 00:50:25.069
And to be fair, immediately I was like, how do I put this into kind of what we do at RepTalk?
908
00:50:25.469 --> 00:50:25.669
Mate.
909
00:50:26.489 --> 00:50:31.330
So I was speaking to someone else in the recruitment industry who's launching a podcast.
910
00:50:31.830 --> 00:50:36.871
And they said to me, Ben, I'm going to nick the format, but in a recruitment setting.
911
00:50:36.911 --> 00:50:39.012
And I was like, okay, fine.
912
00:50:39.478 --> 00:50:40.479
Was this Bobby by any chance?
913
00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:40.819
Yes.
914
00:50:40.839 --> 00:50:41.760
It was Bobby, wasn't it?
915
00:50:41.820 --> 00:50:42.561
Yeah.
916
00:50:42.741 --> 00:50:44.282
I knew immediately it was Bobby.
917
00:50:45.163 --> 00:50:49.346
Yeah, Bobby, he... What you need to know about Bobby is, don't worry about it, he won't do it.
918
00:50:49.506 --> 00:50:49.806
Okay.
919
00:50:49.987 --> 00:50:50.507
He'll say it.
920
00:50:50.847 --> 00:50:51.768
He will think it.
921
00:50:51.868 --> 00:50:52.329
He won't do it.
922
00:50:52.529 --> 00:50:53.049
Okay.
923
00:50:53.289 --> 00:50:54.570
He is like, yeah.
924
00:50:55.051 --> 00:50:55.431
Okay, fine.
925
00:50:55.451 --> 00:50:59.074
Full of ideas, but when it comes to execution, he's always busy doing something else.
926
00:50:59.194 --> 00:50:59.414
Yeah.
927
00:50:59.655 --> 00:51:00.415
Okay, well, it's fine.
928
00:51:00.555 --> 00:51:03.818
It's fine, because... Bobby's a good friend of mine as well.
929
00:51:03.838 --> 00:51:05.479
Yeah, yeah, I know you guys are good mates.
930
00:51:05.720 --> 00:51:05.880
Um...
931
00:51:06.881 --> 00:51:10.704
Bobby, it's actually a pain in the ass to build the intelligence engine for it.
932
00:51:10.864 --> 00:51:11.925
So, yeah, go for it.
933
00:51:12.226 --> 00:51:12.866
Try it.
934
00:51:13.207 --> 00:51:13.967
Yeah, try it.
935
00:51:14.088 --> 00:51:15.329
Good luck.
936
00:51:15.889 --> 00:51:17.931
Mate, loved it.
937
00:51:18.011 --> 00:51:18.632
Mate, what a pleasure.
938
00:51:18.652 --> 00:51:19.633
Honestly, really enjoyed this.
939
00:51:19.653 --> 00:51:20.314
Thank you so much.
940
00:51:20.674 --> 00:51:22.215
You're welcome.
941
00:51:22.776 --> 00:51:23.096
Here, Josh.
942
00:51:23.136 --> 00:51:23.417
Thanks.
943
00:51:23.997 --> 00:51:24.618
It was good, man.
944
00:51:24.658 --> 00:51:25.158
Mate, honestly.