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She spent 20 years working with some of the world's most recognized brands before she asked the question nobody else was asking: What if you could design an event so intentionally that you could prove exactly what it changed? This is The Experiential Strategist, the strategy conversation the events industry has needed, with your host, Jenny Howard Maxwell Today, I'm so excited.
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I have my very first guest, and I couldn't have picked a better one.
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He's an experiential event leader out of Philadelphia.
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He's worked with brands like AWS and Delta.
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His LinkedIn headline describes him as a creative person who became incredibly operational- operationally dangerous.
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And the moment that I read that, I just knew we had to talk.
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Matthew Barney, welcome to The Experiential Strategist.
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Thank you, Jenny.
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I, I have to be honest with you, I, I...
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Excited isn't the right word.
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I woke up this morning, and I was like, "It's podcast day.
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Here we go."
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I, I jumped out of bed.
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I forgot I didn't even have my coffee.
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I'm like, "Wait, dude, you didn't have coffee yet.
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You gotta, you gotta slow your roll here a little."
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Well, I'm caffeinated up for both of us, so- Perfect you know, it might just be me having to hush hush down because I'm just buzz, buzz, buzz.
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But actually, I know that's not true, because we have chatted a couple times now, and your story's fascinating, and I would love it, you can start with your headline, the creative person, or you can just tell me a little bit about your backstory to, to get us started.
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I appreciate that.
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Thank you.
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Um, I'm ta- I, I wanna take a different approach with my backstory, 'cause I did put a lot of time and effort into what we're gonna talk about.
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A- a- and, and that is, is, was just it made me so happy.
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Uh, instead of jumping into like a list of a resume or here's, here's all the corporate stuff or I've done, or here's all the career stuff I've done, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go this way.
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Who I am.
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Uh, first of all, we can't unpack it all today.
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We would need a bottle of tequila and a campfire to go there, Jenny.
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It would...
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We'd have to get down.
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We'd have to get down.
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The, the blue one that you go ding at the top.
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Every time I hear a fact about you, I'll just ding the top.
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Yeah.
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Done.
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It's, it, it's on.
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Done.
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Um, but I'm, I'm a builder.
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I'm c- I'm curious, and I'm a jumper.
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Um, and those are, that's really wraps me up in a nice little package.
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When I say I'm a builder, it's because I've always been drawn to creating things.
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Uh, I've always been drawn to people that are creating things.
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I've always been drawn to communities that, that do, that do well, that are successful.
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Um, sometimes it's an idea, sometimes it's a business.
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But sa- taking something from Concept to reality or something from a blank canvas to a beautiful piece of what I call art.
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And art isn't just something you hang on your wall, on your wall.
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Um, I'm curious because, again, I'm fascinated by people and experiences, and most of the interesting things that I've done from life have started from just pure curiosity.
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I'm, I'm Mr.
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Rabbit Hole.
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Uh, you know, the, the World Wide Web is a wonderful thing, uh, sometimes at 2:00 AM when I can't sleep, but it is.
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It just gives so much information, and there's so many different ways to, to dive into a topic and learn about people.
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Uh, Gary Vee, for example, I'm fascinated by him.
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We talked about him several times now.
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Uh, fascinated by him.
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And so to have the ability to go down that rabbit hole and get curious about him and learn from him, it's a great gift.
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And then I think the, the-- my favorite one is I'm a jumper.
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I, uh, I like to stand on a cliff, look down and say, "Yeah, there's water down there.
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I don't know what's underneath it.
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I don't know what's gonna happen, but I'm gonna jump anyways.
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I'm just gonna go do it."
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And that has put me in some really interesting, unique situations.
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And all those three put together, Jenny, that's, that's just created a unique story.
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I, I just have a great story.
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Uh, humbly so.
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I'm not being prideful, so forgive me, but humbly so, I think I have a really cool story I think you do too.
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I've heard maybe 1/1000 of what your story is, but it's fascinating.
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I do wanna point out a couple things that you just said, and I feel like I'm very similar to you because I am an artist in my own way.
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Yeah.
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Although I can't draw to save my life, I'm an artist- Nope in my own way.
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I can create experiences that will blow you out of the water, and thank God, AI, now I can tell it, "Hey, give me a kind of an example of what's going on in my brain so I can show somebody else."
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And then your risk-taking is what makes you a great entrepreneur, I think.
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Thank you.
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And that's how you, you land these great amazing clients like AWS and Delta.
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So do you wanna go into a little bit more of your story and how you got where you are? Sure.
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Um, ding, ding.
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We'll, we'll start with the first tequila shot.
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We'll go down.
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Um, this is one of...
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Again, I- my, my filter for doing stuff is, is this gonna make a cool story one day? And if it's- if the answer is yes, then we go.
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I- how I got doing events...
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Is that proper English? How, how I got introduced to events, uh, is really- is a really cool story.
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I just got out of the Coast Guard.
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Um, you know, the transition from military life to civilian life was not easy.
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It was very challenging.
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I was selling computer hardware.
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Jenny, I had no idea what I was doing.
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I had zero idea what I was doing.
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I can't even remember the hardware that I was selling.
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It's probably obsolete now.
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Um- You just needed a job? You just needed- Oh, yeah a transition job? Yep.
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I just needed a job.
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Um, and they came to me one day and they said, "Hey, do you wanna go to Seattle to the Microsoft conference and, and, and man the booth and sell the product at the booth?" And I, and I didn't think, "Yeah, that sounds great.
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I'm gonna get commissions out of this.
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It's gonna boost my, my positioning in the company."
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I was...
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I thought, "No.
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I like Pearl Jam.
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Love Soundgarden.
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I like coffee.
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Starbucks is there.
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Yeah, I'll go to Seattle.
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Sure, why not?" And so I got there, my first ever conference or convention that I ever attended, and I ended up running into the woman that was running- that was the producer for the event running the show.
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And I said, "Wait a minute.
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This is your job? This is what you do? You just, you just put on these big conferences and conventions?" She's like, "Yeah."
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And I thought, "Why didn't anybody tell me this in school? Where, where was this, you know, six years ago?" I still would've went to the military because I loved it, and I still would've served in the Coast Guard 'cause I loved it, but I just, again, true to form, was like, "I'm in.
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Where do I sign up?" So I got her contact information, and I at the time was living in Buffalo, New York.
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I got back to Buffalo and just started researching her and, and what the event production world even was.
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And so finally after about a month, I, I emailed her and I said, "Hey, I have a one-way ticket to Seattle.
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I'm gonna come work with you."
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And she's like, "Excuse me?" She was...
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She was like, "Um, okay.
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Maybe we should talk a little first."
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I'm like, "It's too late.
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I already bought the ticket.
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I'm on the way."
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I have an apartment, I signed a lease.
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I didn't even see it.
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I just signed the lease, and off I went.
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Uh, we chatted, and she was very, uh, open to the idea of working together, and off we went, and that started my event production career.
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I didn't know anything, but, you know, the cool part of the story, Jenny, was I was kind of a natural.
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You know? I just jumped in.
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I was doing this.
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I was managing logistics.
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Budget was no problem.
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Um, I never needed much direction, and then I just fell in love, and, and I just took it.
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And all these years later, here I am still.
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I absolutely love event production and experiential.
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Um, and, and you know just as well as I do you either love it or you don't.
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There's no in between.
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And you're either good at it or you don't belong in the industry.
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Uh, yes.
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If you can't handle stress, pivot, and last-minute, absolutely.
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So that is an amazing story.
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I love that you just, you know, worked your way into a job.
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And you, you say in your, in your LinkedIn that you are operationally dangerous.
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Yes.
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And so when you started, were you creative or logistics? What...
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Which were you better at when you first started at this job 15 years ago? Great question, and I...
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We chatted about this too.
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Unfortunately, we're, we'll have to do 17 more podcasts, Jenny.
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Let's just, let's just confirm it now 'cause the audience won't, won't really hear what we've...
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You know, we've shared a lot, but the audience doesn't know that.
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Um- The answer is I was logistically, I was logistically good.
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Um, and I think that came from discipline instilled upon me through military service.
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Uh, I was very...
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All the I's were dotted, all the T's were crossed, because what I did in the Coast Guard was heavy weather search and rescue, and we had w- you had to be disciplined.
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You had to be on it.
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You had to make sure every I was dotted, T was crossed, because if you didn't, literally lives were at stake.
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And so I learned that operationally logistic dangerous, what, w- I I gotta remember my own tagline.
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Operationally dangerous through military service.
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It's been, it's been over the course of the last several years, Jenny, where, um, in full disclosure, you know, going to therapy, getting a life coach, um, becoming my own life coach, wanting to help people, that I discovered that I have, I am a creative person.
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I just haven't let them out yet.
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And so o- over the last handful of years, I've slowly let that person out, and it's been, it's just been a, like almost a sense of relief, if that makes sense.
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To be like, "Oh, yeah, here's Matthew.
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Where you been all this time, dude? Come on in."
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You know? Be, be yourself.
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Fly your f- fly your freak flag, as some people say.
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And that's where things really started catching fire for me.
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Um, having, you know, all these years of logistical excellence and production excellence, letting this creative person out of the door and allowing them just to combine with each other, it's been really rewarding, honestly, and just really s- self-fulfilling.
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It, it just...
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Happiness isn't even a word that can begin to cover it That's so fascinating to me because you're explaining to me that you kind of came into who you truly were, but when you tell me the story of your events and, you know, these, I call them the special sauce, the things that you gatekeep, the special things that you were sharing with me that you do in your events, those were beyond what a creative person would do.
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These are genius creativity level moves.
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And it's so interesting that you were already doing the thing that you really were, but it just took you realizing who you really were to align with what you were also doing.
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Yeah.
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So I find that pretty fascinating that you, you came into that.
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So the second course in my certification is called The Competitive Edge, and I teach about how people need to focus on their niche, what they're good at, whether it's creativity, marketing, or logistics, and really honing that in.
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And so that sounds like you did that exact thing on your own, and you figured that out.
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So I see one more thing that we're just aligned on.
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Yeah.
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I love that so much.
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Not surprising.
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There- there'll be more, Jenny.
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There'll be more.
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So I have to move on to the next question here, because I have so many things I wanna ask you, and you've worked with these major brands like AWS, Delta, some of the biggest brands in the world, and so what level of that experiential work does it...
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What does it teach you that smaller scale work cannot do? What changes when you're, when the stakes are so high, you know, you're, you're reporting to Delta, AWS, and it's not- Yeah just, you know, the little, you know, business down the street? You know, that's a really great question, and, and again, in doing my homework prepping for this, I don't know if I came up with an answer.
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Because sometimes I think the smaller things are way more difficult.
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I really do.
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I think the smaller the scale, the more challenges that, that, that are, that arise.
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Um, so doing those big, you know, the AWS, the Microsoft, the, the Nike leadership retreat stuff, I...
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It's just something that I don't know if I like the pressure.
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I don't know if I like the big spotlight.
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I don't know if I like the stress.
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I probably do.
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Um, I had a full head of hair when, when I started producing events, so there's an indication of the stress level.
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Um, I just am naturally more comfortable the bigger the project.
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The big- the bigger the limelight, the more comfortable I, I, I become.
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Um, you know, these smaller activations, if you will, or these smaller events or these- Um, smaller things that we put on seem to just take on a different life than the bigger, the bigger ones, if that makes sense.
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They ha- it's a different personality, it's a different creature.
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Uh, the process is all still pretty much the same, but it just moves and has its own Uh, personality is the best word I can come up with So you've shared with me a little bit about the personalities of some of your events.
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Are you willing to share some of your special sauce that I call them? Um, you know, there, there was one in particular in Seattle that I absolutely loved that story about the gift.
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And- Yeah um, will you share some of these special things that you do, whether it's a big scale event or a small scale that you do that really, we talk about emotion a lot, and I teach about emotion, how it's so key in triggering behavior in people.
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Would you share a little bit about maybe one of your stories of how you, how you do that? Yeah, I would love to.
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Um, and then yes, I was gatekeeping with you a little bit, but I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll pull the, I'll, I'll lift the hood a little bit and I'll show you the engine.
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Um, I discovered this by accident.
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I did a activation for some AWS execs, um, after one of our events.
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It...
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What, what event? It was Global Partner Summit.
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Um, true to who I am, I wanted to find a space that was cool, that was creative, that was different.
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I wanted to interrupt or even disrupt the norm.
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I wanted to do something different, uh, which is another in- interrupter and disrupter is another term that I think- I could use to describe myself as I go through my, continue to go through my learning process about who I am as a person.
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But I really wanted to disrupt and do something different and interrupt.
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So I found an art gallery in Pike Place Market in Seattle.
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Beautiful venue.
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G- uh, just, it gives me goosebumps just talking about it.
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Um, and the art gallery turned out to be owned by Mike McCready from Pearl Jam.
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And I was like, "Oh, really? This is cool.
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This is super cool."
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So I reached out to Chris Adams, who...
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By the way, if you're ever looking for someone to work with at a venue in Seattle, Chris Adams is amazing.
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Um, I'll even share his contact information with everybody after this.
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But he ended up being just amazing to work with.
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Uh, the interesting part that really concerned me about the a- art gallery gener- Jenny was the current installation or the current showing of, of art was all done by incarcerated in- incarcerated individuals, so inmates.
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And I was like, "Oof, that's a little bold, dude.
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Are you, are you sure you want to do..."
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You know, talking to myself, "Are you sure you wanna do that? Yep, we're jumping.
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Let's go."
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Um, when the pe- when the people walked in, the, the cool...
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This is what I love about doing experiential.
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The- their faces dropped.
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They looked around.
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You could see, like, just the awe.
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Just the awe.
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And it went over so well, so well.
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I think four or five people, including myself, bought art off the wall that night.
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Chris was amazing.
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He shipped it out to everybody.
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He's like, "Yep, no problem.
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I got you."
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His hospitality was off the charts.
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But the cool little...
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And I've done this a couple times now The cool little thing that I did was, and I have it over here in my, on my, amongst my other thousand books that I have.
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He did a, he took, while on tour, he took a Polaroid of the crowd or took a selfie.
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You know, before selfies were selfies, he took Polaroid selfies and, or he took Polaroids behind backstage, and he put them all into a book.
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And I was like, "Ooh."
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I said, "Chris, can you get me that book?" He's like, "Yeah, I can.
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Absolutely."
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So I'm like, "Cool.
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Give me," I think it was, "30 of these books," and that's all I said.
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He went above and beyond and had Mike sign every book for us as well, and when I gave those books out, people lost their minds.
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They really lost it.
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They went bananas over it, which was a really cool reaction to see.
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What was special about it, and this, the feedback I got, and I kind of already knew this, but I did receive the feedback, you know, the, the external feedback or the external, um, what's the word I wanna use? Validation.
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The external validation that I received was no one's done this.
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It's not AWS.
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There's no logo.
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There's no branding But I'm gonna keep this and I'm gonna remember this forever.
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And I've- and I did it another time, Jenny, with, uh, another activation at a restaurant in San Francisco.
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Um, what is the name of the re- uh, I'm blanking on the name of the restaurant.
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It'll come to me in a minute.
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But the chef, James Beard-winning r- chef, Michelin-rated restaurant, the chef had a cookbook.
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And I was like, "Ooh, can we get a cookbook for all the attendees and give it to them?" "Absolutely."
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Done.
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And again, the chef signed the book, and I gave the book out to people, and again, the reaction was just, it I, I The reaction was amazing.
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It was just really, really special to have that reaction.
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And, and again, the feedback was, I had an AWS exec call me, and she said, "You know, I look at that book every day, and A, I think about that event, but I think about you."
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And I was like, "Oof."
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First of all, humbled.
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Thank you.
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That's amazing.
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That was, you know, not necessarily my, my intention whatsoever, but it just started this, this idea of swag.
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I don't need another water bottle.
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I don't need more swag.
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I don't need another puffy vest.
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Give me something that I'm gonna remember, and that's where the idea kind of generated from, just to keep doing that.
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And it, it works.
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I gotta tell you, it works.
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I love that because it's intentional design, and I call it strategic experience design.
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We typically...
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A typical planner for a conference or a brand activation, you get a, a timeline, a list of to-dos.
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You maybe look at your budget for the last time and think, "Well, what do I switch this time?" If you look at it as, what can I do intentionally that's gonna make the most impact, you know, as opposed to, "Well, we gotta have some swag.
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What are we gonna throw in there?" Yeah.
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It makes the difference of night and day whether they're going to remember not just the event, who threw the event, you know, the purpose of the event, the why of the event, the intention of the event.
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Just locking in that, that memory right there, that is so key, and I call it- Yeah anchoring and activation.
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That's what I call it in my blueprint- Ooh so that it's, it's locked in the memory.
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Activate and anchor.
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I love that.
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I'm gonna...
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Can I steal that from you? You can.
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It's a- I'm gonna use it.
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Well, I mean, it's copywritten in my workbook here, so you can't steal it, but you can- Oh, shoot use it all over town.
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All right.
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Fair enough.
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Fair enough.
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But that goes back to, Jenny, what I was talking about earlier in our conversation about the interruption or the disruption.
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It was different.
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It was a very small interruption or disruption, and, you know, had it gone sideways or had it not worked out as I...
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Well, I didn't even hope it worked out anyways.
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If it had just not landed properly, let's say that Um, it was not a big deal because it wasn't a huge interruption.
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It was just a small distur- disruption, but ended up having tremendous, uh, ROI, if you wanna call it ROI or, or ended up having a tremendous backend experience to it.
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Absolutely.
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I want to shift gears for a second.
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So we met on LinkedIn.
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Yeah.
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And I...
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One of my favorite things is posting provocative posts on LinkedIn that get people to respond to me, and I asked you how you prove event success.
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And you kinda stopped, "Hold on."
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And that made you come to my profile and figure out, who is this girl sitting on this pink couch that's, you know- Oh, yeah.
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Yeah saying these little things.
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Who's, who's this fashionista on a pink couch? I need to talk to her.
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J- again, jump.
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L- let's...
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Ooh, curiosity.
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Uh, let's, let's get curious and jump.
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Let's figure it out.
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Absolutely.
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So before that moment, had you truly ever thought of, how do I prove event success? Had you ever really had a framework or a process, or how did you do that? You know, that's an interesting topic, and a little self plug for myself, I'm speaking on this, uh, next week in New York.
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What are you doing next Wednesday? Come to New York.
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I'm on a panel.
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Um, but we're talking about how to build an event with, you know, to show ROI, and I think it's a really hot topic right now.
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I know it's a hot topic right now.
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You know, previously, you and I have been doing this for a very long time.
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Previous proof of concept for an event or previous proof of ROI in an event was how many people showed up.
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You, you said, you said 500, did 500 show, you know? And that was, that was kinda it for the long time, right? Uh, but now You know, especially at the corporate level, you're talking, you know, you know, what was generated for pipeline? What, what, what MQLs were turned to SQLs? Marketing qualified lead, did they turn to sales qualified lead, SQL? MQL to SQL.
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That's a big one right now.
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Um, and it- and that's a It's a little bit of a beast because then as event production or experiential production folks, again, we were u- like, "All right, we'll build it.
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We'll set it up.
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We'll get the invites out, and we'll tell you how many people showed up."
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If we hit our goal, we were good.
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Now, it's like, okay, uh, what was the level of sales generated? What was the level of interaction that was generated because we have technology to measure it.
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How many people went to the breakout session? Well, there was You know, we had seating for 75, but 25 showed up.
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Ooh, that's data.
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That's input.
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That's an ROI metric.
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Um, and I think the biggest thing is now we are, we are definitely evolving as experiential producers because we have to have The ability to put on the hat to talk at the corporate le- or the C level, excuse me, to say, "Based on the event, you know, X amount of dollars was generated in revenue," and that's the big one.
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And putting on that hat, I think, is challenging for a lot of us because that means, you know, having the ability to talk about an MQL to an SQL, which again is marketing qualified lead to sales qualified lead.
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Did that lead turn into dollars? And that, m- in my opinion or my thinking, Jenny, currently is, ooh, now we're almost, we're almost becoming salespeople because we have to go to the sales team post-event and say, "Hey, here's all your leads."
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Or, or you tell me.
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You scan the leads.
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You got how many leads? Okay.
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What is the process for follow-up? Am I responsible for giving you a, a, you know, a platform for follow-up, or is that your sales manager? Who, who owns that? And I think there's gonna have to be a lot of conversation going forward about that, and that's where I think we have the opportunity to learn as experiential produ- producers and, and event producers to, to have a seat at that table.
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Absolutely.
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One of the things I've found over the last year, as I've been doing research, I've talked to hundreds of planners, and one of the, the things is there's that you come into the industry, you're an event planner, you're in charge of logistics.
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At what moment did everyone decide that you're now in charge of ROI and what the sales team is doing? And the sad thing is that if you don't know what the sales team is doing, if you don't know how to prove success, you're not gonna make six figures in this industry.
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You're not going to move up into a Jack Morton, a Wasserman, or, you know, into one of these experiential roles or work with AWS or any of that.
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And so one of my...
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I will, you know, this is my thing that I'm just so passionate about and that I am trying to spend the rest of my life doing, and that is teaching people how you go from that logistics order taking role into I'm a strategist.
335
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Yeah.
336
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I earned a seat at this table.
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I can show you how an event is successful every single time.
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Yeah.
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And so that's something I am so passionate about because so many people are stuck at the bottom, and they don't understand, and it's not that they're sitting in the back smoking a cigarette saying, "Well, that's not my job."
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It- they're not doing that.
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They just- Yeah no one's taught them because there's no framework.
342
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There's no- No there's no process.
343
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But there is now because I built one.
344
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So we're all good.
345
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We're all covered in that area- so we can all now prove success and all be strategists if we want to.
346
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But it, truly the history of event production and going from that level to, you know, we're just logistically putting this together.
347
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Ooh, like for me, myself, I got to that next level through creativity.
348
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Yeah.
349
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I got there because I threw out the most creative ideas in the room, and so everyone saw, "Oh, she's not just an, an order taker, she has ideas.
350
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What, whoa- Yeah what's that all about?" And then once I...
351
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I actually have an MBA in marketing, and I don't think you need to go spend a ton of money and earn an MBA to move up in this industry.
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I feel like all you need to do is be boots on the ground logistics, learn what it feels like to plan an event, to have things go wrong, to have, to, to have to pivot last minute, to have to turn- Yeah you know, a seated thing into a cocktail standing thing because your client came in and said, "Wait, I changed my mind."
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You know- Yeah you have to go through all of the, the boot camp- Yeah of event planning, and then, you know, to earn your seat at the table, you need to learn the language to be able to speak in ROI terms and C-suite terms.
354
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100%, and I agree with you.
355
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Uh, I agree with you all the way.
356
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I have a, a master's degree in organizational leadership.
357
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Does it help? 100%, but all the learning came from to your p- boots on the ground.
358
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Making a mistake and being like, "Ooh, that was a mistake.
359
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Lesson learned."
360
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Fix it quick, and then move on.
361
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It's, you've gotta get in, you've gotta get in the mix.
362
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You've gotta, in the spirit of, of Gary Vee, you know, you've gotta fuck it up a couple times, fix it- Mm do it again, fix it again, and then just keep screwing it up and fixing it.
363
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And that's where the real empowerment comes from.
364
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That's where the real knowledge comes from.
365
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Absolutely.
366
00:29:02,898.563 --> 00:29:08,668.563
And I love that you, you popped out Gary Vee because he- Yeah you know, so inspirational.
367
00:29:08,668.563 --> 00:29:09,968.563
He's on my feed every day.
368
00:29:10,378.563 --> 00:29:10,798.563
Oh, yeah.
369
00:29:11,618.563 --> 00:29:35,488.561
I would love to talk about one of your specific events that you designed, and you, you already shared the emotional experience of the swag, but do you have another one that you actually designed an emotional experience on purpose and then proved the results at the end? Do you have any e- examples of that? Yeah.
370
00:29:35,518.562 --> 00:29:40,208.563
I'm, I'm gonna stay with my most recent, um, ad- adventures at AWS.
371
00:29:40,358.562 --> 00:29:44,918.563
Um, obviously AWS is, is a monster of a, of, of a company.
372
00:29:44,968.562 --> 00:29:49,448.561
Uh, I, I think they're, I don't know, top...
373
00:29:49,498.561 --> 00:29:53,508.56
I, I know- I don't know the s- statistics on it, but top one or two companies out there now.
374
00:29:53,528.56 --> 00:29:55,548.561
I don't know, so don't quote me on any of that.
375
00:29:55,548.561 --> 00:30:02,168.561
But certainly those events, um, you know, Global Partner Summit was, was definitely one.
376
00:30:02,658.561 --> 00:30:08,208.565
That was inviting all the partners of AWS to one convention, one conference.
377
00:30:08,278.56 --> 00:30:15,258.559
Um, it was in Seattle, and that was heavily involved, you know, proving ROI.
378
00:30:15,688.564 --> 00:30:39,738.559
To our point, it wasn't just, "Hey, we need 1,500 partners to attend this conference," it was, "Who are the right people that need to be there? You know, what level of a partner are they? What level of revenue are they generating?" Um, capturing those individuals' information, uh, once they arrive on site, kind of through technology, fi- following them around the convention, conference for three days.
379
00:30:40,398.563 --> 00:30:45,828.563
Um, and then capturing all that information, getting it to the sales team as quickly as possible for follow-up.
380
00:30:46,548.564 --> 00:31:23,312.563
And, you know, there was conversations involved, Jenny, from my sp- perspective on, you know, what is the follow-up? What is, what is the plan for follow-up? Is that, is that, is that on me for ensuring the sales team follows up properly? Or the, the, you know, the partner development, PDMs, partner development marketers, are they following up in a proper way? Giving them some, some structure on you know, the purpose of the event and why they came, and then having, giving them some information for the follow-up so they could do it properly and, and generate the revenue.
381
00:31:25,930.563 --> 00:31:37,860.562
That's actually really, really interesting because a lot of planners, including myself in the past, decide to measure results after the fact.
382
00:31:38,520.563 --> 00:31:38,760.563
Yeah.
383
00:31:38,760.563 --> 00:31:46,370.562
And what you just stated was one of the most important things is you start before you even start planning.
384
00:31:46,380.562 --> 00:31:46,400.562
Yeah.
385
00:31:46,410.563 --> 00:31:49,90.562
And you ask that question, who do we want in the room? Yeah.
386
00:31:49,460.562 --> 00:31:52,920.562
Because I, I'll tell you about an event that I did year after year.
387
00:31:52,920.563 --> 00:31:58,580.561
I did it three years in a row, and first year we had about 350 registrants.
388
00:31:58,580.561 --> 00:32:01,230.563
The next year was 500, the next year was 750.
389
00:32:01,280.561 --> 00:32:03,510.563
And everyone thought, "Wow, this is the..."
390
00:32:03,560.56 --> 00:32:04,820.564
I mean, it was a beautiful event.
391
00:32:04,830.561 --> 00:32:04,850.561
Yeah.
392
00:32:05,80.561 --> 00:32:11,640.563
Obviously, you know, we grew in attendance, but in my world, attendance is a head count.
393
00:32:11,710.562 --> 00:32:12,590.563
It doesn't matter.
394
00:32:12,980.562 --> 00:32:13,190.562
Yeah.
395
00:32:13,190.562 --> 00:32:27,790.561
Because it matters, number one, who is that? Is that actually your client, or are you just providing them, you know, a good time? And then after these events, which everyone was telling me they're, these are so successful, I couldn't figure out how.
396
00:32:27,930.563 --> 00:32:31,30.56
I had no idea how to say- Hmm well, it was successful because of this.
397
00:32:31,50.558 --> 00:32:33,300.561
Because to me a head count is not success.
398
00:32:33,340.559 --> 00:32:35,110.558
That's output of something.
399
00:32:35,620.558 --> 00:32:42,880.558
And so I actually had sponsors after every single year say, "We didn't get anything out of it.
400
00:32:42,890.562 --> 00:32:44,470.56
We're not coming back next year."
401
00:32:44,750.563 --> 00:32:48,510.564
So I'm sorry, but that is an unsuccessful event to me.
402
00:32:48,510.564 --> 00:32:48,645.5625
Yeah.
403
00:32:48,645.5625 --> 00:32:49,20.561
If I...
404
00:32:49,60.56 --> 00:32:50,560.562
That, that is not success.
405
00:32:51,30.561 --> 00:33:04,770.563
And so after that point, I looked back and I thought, you know, before the event, I am going to clearly communicate what success looks like from the beginning, and get everybody involved.
406
00:33:04,780.561 --> 00:33:09,770.564
Whether it's a sponsor, you know, whether it's any of the stakeholders, that's what's gonna happen.
407
00:33:09,780.561 --> 00:33:09,800.561
Yeah.
408
00:33:10,170.561 --> 00:33:17,600.558
And so I actually bombed event after event when, you know, people are, you know, guests are saying it's phenomenal.
409
00:33:17,900.564 --> 00:33:25,770.557
But when sponsors are giving me, you know, 50 grand in food and, you know, they need to be getting...
410
00:33:25,800.558 --> 00:33:29,150.561
Like, they're important, not the guests having a good time.
411
00:33:29,410.559 --> 00:33:36,970.564
So clearly explaining expectations from the beginning I think is key, and then, like you said, planning beforehand.
412
00:33:36,980.566 --> 00:33:37,0.566
Yeah.
413
00:33:37,20.559 --> 00:33:38,780.556
The planning before the planning is what I call it.
414
00:33:39,250.555 --> 00:33:39,540.555
Yeah.
415
00:33:39,540.555 --> 00:33:43,210.564
And now that you frame it that way, Jenny, or now that you share your story...
416
00:33:43,360.556 --> 00:33:45,90.567
And by the way, I've been there, done that too.
417
00:33:45,100.561 --> 00:33:46,340.56
Bombed, you know, sponsors.
418
00:33:46,340.567 --> 00:33:47,310.558
Like, "Hey, this was awful.
419
00:33:47,310.558 --> 00:33:47,980.559
We're not coming back."
420
00:33:48,100.561 --> 00:33:48,910.556
Been there, done that.
421
00:33:48,960.562 --> 00:33:50,60.562
Not a great conversation.
422
00:33:50,690.558 --> 00:34:05,514.563
Um, but the thought you gener- you helped me generate was we did a lot of- Pre-work before we started logistics with the sales team to say, "Hey, here's the criteria for who gets in," because it was an invite-only event.
423
00:34:05,564.563 --> 00:34:07,524.562
"Here's the criteria for who gets invited.
424
00:34:08,34.562 --> 00:34:10,434.562
If they don't fit, we cannot invite them."
425
00:34:10,504.563 --> 00:34:18,314.563
You know, because it had impact on budget, we had impact on, um, you know, fire marshal, fire marshal regulations with the amount of people in the building.
426
00:34:18,374.563 --> 00:34:22,614.562
I'm like-- I said, I'm like, "Look it, we can't go over this.
427
00:34:22,614.563 --> 00:34:28,4.562
We've gotta really stick to the, the perfect attendee, and that's it."
428
00:34:29,54.562 --> 00:34:37,174.561
And so later, you know, of course two weeks out from the event, my Slack and my email was a pinball...
429
00:34:37,204.561 --> 00:34:38,614.562
It was a slot machine.
430
00:34:39,444.563 --> 00:34:40,694.561
Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.
431
00:34:40,704.561 --> 00:34:41,924.562
"Hey, so and so needs to be there.
432
00:34:41,924.563 --> 00:34:43,544.563
Hey, this customer really needs to be there.
433
00:34:43,544.563 --> 00:34:44,994.561
Hey, I need this person there.
434
00:34:44,994.562 --> 00:34:49,374.562
They do X amount of dollars of revenue with us, and we need to ha- we cannot not invite them."
435
00:34:50,364.561 --> 00:34:54,874.561
And so I became the, I became the bouncer and the gatekeeper of like, "Nope, sorry, can't do it.
436
00:34:55,194.563 --> 00:34:59,634.561
You know, we set this standard, we set this guideline six months ago.
437
00:34:59,644.56 --> 00:35:00,904.561
We're two weeks out.
438
00:35:01,664.561 --> 00:35:04,194.562
I can't, I can't...
439
00:35:04,214.564 --> 00:35:04,974.563
we can't allow it.
440
00:35:04,974.563 --> 00:35:05,484.561
I'm sorry."
441
00:35:05,534.563 --> 00:35:11,784.56
And that was, oof, that was challenging to have those conversations.
442
00:35:11,824.564 --> 00:35:15,474.56
And, uh, several of them did get heated.
443
00:35:15,844.561 --> 00:35:17,834.561
Not gonna lie, several of them did get heated.
444
00:35:17,844.561 --> 00:35:28,634.562
And we had to stick to our guns, you know, because again, wasn't the target guest, I try not to say attendee anymore, I try to say guest, wasn't the target guest.
445
00:35:29,294.558 --> 00:35:31,304.559
It's having an impact on F&B budget.
446
00:35:31,334.559 --> 00:35:34,154.562
It's having an impact on the amount of people we can have in the room.
447
00:35:34,584.559 --> 00:35:42,714.561
It's having a, uh, an impact on our floor plan because, you know, we're, we're anticipating 1500, but it's looking like two grand.
448
00:35:43,534.563 --> 00:35:46,404.561
Now we've gotta go back to the floor plan and, and adjust seating.
449
00:35:46,424.563 --> 00:35:49,394.557
We've gotta rearrange some floor plans to add seating.
450
00:35:49,394.564 --> 00:36:12,60.562
So it was, it was heated at several times, like I said That's a really interesting concept that kind of ties into when you're in that weird space between logistics coordinator and actually the, the person that can make the call and make the decisions.
451
00:36:12,60.563 --> 00:36:15,730.563
And I know you have a lot of conversation with C-suites, and so do I, but I...
452
00:36:16,60.563 --> 00:36:18,30.562
And I was a C-suite at one point.
453
00:36:18,340.563 --> 00:36:28,110.561
But prior to that, I didn't feel confident enough to stake my claim and say, "No, we're not doing that.
454
00:36:28,140.563 --> 00:36:30,880.561
We- this is not aligned with the event.
455
00:36:31,140.561 --> 00:36:37,820.561
We're not putting a mechanical bull in the corner because it has nothing to do..."
456
00:36:37,820.561 --> 00:36:38,20.561
And yes, that's a true story.
457
00:36:38,20.561 --> 00:36:39,900.56
We're not doing that because it's not aligned with it.
458
00:36:39,910.561 --> 00:36:43,130.561
And so did a mechanical bull show up? Yes.
459
00:36:43,420.563 --> 00:36:43,810.563
Oh, yeah.
460
00:36:44,380.562 --> 00:36:45,450.562
Because I didn't have the strength to say it.
461
00:36:45,500.561 --> 00:36:58,590.56
And so that's another thing that I teach, is that you have to, you have to find your voice, and by calling yourself an experiential strategist, something that you do is you, you show up and you say, "I'm not just your order taker here."
462
00:36:58,600.56 --> 00:36:58,630.56
Yep.
463
00:36:58,740.563 --> 00:37:00,630.561
"You've hired me as an expert."
464
00:37:00,860.558 --> 00:37:00,890.558
Yep.
465
00:37:01,40.558 --> 00:37:10,70.562
"And what I need to do is tell you that, no, that person doesn't belong in the room because it's 225 a head, and they're doing nothing to move the business needle.
466
00:37:10,360.558 --> 00:37:11,720.56
So I'm sorry."
467
00:37:11,730.561 --> 00:37:20,370.559
And so how did you kind of gain your voice and your confidence so that you could have these conversations? I stinking love this question.
468
00:37:20,730.561 --> 00:37:30,70.561
And honestly, it has nothing to do with event production, it has nothing to do with experiential production, uh, nothing with experiential activations.
469
00:37:31,620.56 --> 00:37:40,30.56
Um, I, I found my voice because I did a lot of self work, and I know we've talked about this too.
470
00:37:40,130.562 --> 00:37:46,360.561
I, again, maybe TMI, but I, I've gone to therapy, I've had a coach, I've had a life coach.
471
00:37:46,840.561 --> 00:37:53,990.563
I've done a lot of self-reflection, um, especially during COVID, 'cause there was nothing else to do, right? We weren't working, unfortunately.
472
00:37:53,990.563 --> 00:38:01,670.558
But during COVID, if there was a book on finding yourself, self-help, um, I picked it up and I read it.
473
00:38:01,720.559 --> 00:38:08,800.559
I just ingested, and I ingested, uh, probably way over the, way more than I should have, but I was fascinated with it.
474
00:38:09,370.553 --> 00:38:24,260.553
And so all that to say, I just learned about who I was, and that gave me the confidence to have a voice backed by years of experience, yes, and years of making mistakes, yes, but I just found out who I was as a person.
475
00:38:24,840.554 --> 00:38:26,950.556
And I also learned...
476
00:38:27,260.552 --> 00:38:32,50.557
I always had this as a talent, I guess you could say, Jenny, but learning to read a room.
477
00:38:33,0.558 --> 00:38:37,830.559
Um, I always-- I didn't know I had it, but I did have it, kind of like creativity.
478
00:38:37,860.558 --> 00:38:43,520.557
I, I knew I had it, or I, I had it, but I didn't know I had it, or I didn't let that side of me out the door.
479
00:38:44,680.565 --> 00:38:46,340.56
Reading the room, I think, is a big one.
480
00:38:46,340.56 --> 00:38:47,820.554
You've gotta know who you're speaking to.
481
00:38:47,820.565 --> 00:38:48,930.554
You gotta know your audience.
482
00:38:49,530.556 --> 00:38:55,358.563
Um- You know, there are some C-level execs that I can say, "That's dumb.
483
00:38:55,448.563 --> 00:38:57,518.563
We're not putting a mechanical bull in the corner.
484
00:38:57,558.563 --> 00:39:00,748.563
What, what are you thinking?" And I know I can get away with it.
485
00:39:01,238.563 --> 00:39:05,158.563
But there are some execs where if I did that, I'd be gone.
486
00:39:05,998.563 --> 00:39:10,408.563
And so just learning how to read the room and who you're speaking to goes a long ways.
487
00:39:10,438.562 --> 00:39:11,928.562
And timing is another one, too.
488
00:39:12,508.562 --> 00:39:19,998.563
You know, if you're in the fire, there's a fire drill, I do use humor in fires because it's a little bit of my ability.
489
00:39:20,258.562 --> 00:39:23,448.563
It's my psychological way to also calm someone else down.
490
00:39:23,988.561 --> 00:39:28,188.562
'Cause if I'm a mess, they're gonna be a mess, vice versa.
491
00:39:28,298.563 --> 00:39:31,58.563
So humor goes a long way with calming the situation down.
492
00:39:31,58.563 --> 00:39:35,858.564
But finding timing for that humor with a C-level exec is also pretty critical.
493
00:39:35,858.564 --> 00:39:37,138.561
Again, knowing your audience.
494
00:39:37,798.563 --> 00:39:42,868.563
Um, a- and again, it's just figuring out who you are as a person.
495
00:39:42,958.563 --> 00:39:49,298.562
Yes, inside of an event space or inside of an experiential space, but also completely outside of that.
496
00:39:49,748.563 --> 00:39:50,668.563
Figure out who you are.
497
00:39:51,68.563 --> 00:39:51,308.563
Get...
498
00:39:51,338.56 --> 00:39:52,108.561
Ask questions.
499
00:39:52,128.561 --> 00:39:52,638.563
Get help.
500
00:39:53,378.561 --> 00:39:55,168.562
Um, go to a therapist.
501
00:39:56,208.559 --> 00:40:03,868.563
Figure it out, you know? So finding your voice, you would recommend if you were telling a planner that wants to get...
502
00:40:03,898.561 --> 00:40:16,968.558
or someone entry-level maybe five years into their career and they want to be an experiential strategist, they want to get into brand activations, corporate events, and work with these big brands, three tips to get them to, you know, their...
503
00:40:16,998.56 --> 00:40:23,548.563
find their confidence, find their voice, what would you recommend? First of all, take your course, the one that you've created.
504
00:40:24,428.56 --> 00:40:26,438.56
Read your book that's coming out in September.
505
00:40:27,818.559 --> 00:40:30,798.565
Um, I, I, I mean, I, I...
506
00:40:30,838.564 --> 00:40:32,528.561
We joke, but that's actually very true.
507
00:40:32,688.562 --> 00:40:34,518.558
Um, three tips.
508
00:40:35,348.558 --> 00:40:35,908.558
Learn.
509
00:40:36,998.56 --> 00:40:39,738.564
Just be, be a student, and never change.
510
00:40:39,768.564 --> 00:40:40,478.563
I'm, I'm...
511
00:40:41,88.564 --> 00:40:42,478.558
I don't have it all figured out.
512
00:40:42,568.559 --> 00:40:45,688.559
I've gotten pretty far, but I'm still gonna continue to learn and be a student.
513
00:40:45,698.564 --> 00:40:46,448.558
Be a student.
514
00:40:47,218.561 --> 00:40:53,498.562
Um, do be- do some self-reflection.
515
00:40:53,508.562 --> 00:41:01,928.562
Who are you? You know, are you, are you putting on a corporate mask just to get a paycheck? And if you are, zero issues with...
516
00:41:01,968.553 --> 00:41:03,698.554
You know, sp- spirit of Gary V.
517
00:41:03,808.565 --> 00:41:05,308.564
Zero, zero issues with that.
518
00:41:05,658.556 --> 00:41:06,408.565
Do your thing.
519
00:41:06,818.559 --> 00:41:09,108.562
If that, if that's what you wanna do, do it.
520
00:41:09,658.556 --> 00:41:18,568.556
Um, or are you putting on this corporate mask or this corporate armor when in reality you're someone totally different? Well, explore that a little bit.
521
00:41:18,698.564 --> 00:41:23,908.564
You don't have to, you don't have to be like me and jump in all the way and do it, but just give it some exploratio- ex- exploration.
522
00:41:23,928.56 --> 00:41:26,838.553
Give it some room to breathe.
523
00:41:27,708.559 --> 00:41:31,888.561
Um, and, and we've talked about this a couple times now.
524
00:41:32,98.558 --> 00:41:35,918.563
Make mistakes Make mistakes.
525
00:41:36,218.563 --> 00:41:39,188.563
Um, you've gotta, you know, you're, we're not saving lives.
526
00:41:39,258.563 --> 00:41:46,298.563
And I, and I have a joke, sometimes in the heat of a moment or the heat of a fire drill, I'm like, "Look it, we're not saving lives here.
527
00:41:46,808.563 --> 00:41:48,78.562
That's actually way easier."
528
00:41:48,368.562 --> 00:41:53,498.563
And they look at me and they say, "What do you mean?" I say, "Well, because I did it in the Coast Guard, and it's not this difficult.
529
00:41:53,508.563 --> 00:41:56,718.562
Why are we making this so difficult? Let's find a solution.
530
00:41:56,788.563 --> 00:42:01,918.563
Everybody ca- find calm or everybody be calm, and there's a solution there.
531
00:42:01,918.563 --> 00:42:05,542.563
We just don't see it yet It's so funny that you say that.
532
00:42:05,552.563 --> 00:42:14,402.563
I was doing research on, I think it was a year ago, on the most stressful careers, and we're fifth Yeah Our- ours is fifth.
533
00:42:15,242.563 --> 00:42:18,92.563
Not, we're not ER doctors saving lives.
534
00:42:18,102.562 --> 00:42:18,122.562
No.
535
00:42:18,132.563 --> 00:42:19,182.563
You know, someone, you know.
536
00:42:19,222.562 --> 00:42:20,462.562
But it feels like it.
537
00:42:20,462.563 --> 00:42:22,222.562
It can feel like it- Yeah in the time.
538
00:42:22,652.562 --> 00:42:28,332.563
And I don't think we give enough credit for people that are living on the floor.
539
00:42:28,332.563 --> 00:42:39,532.561
You know, the people that are running the trade show booths, the field marketing people, the, even the corporate event planner that's, you know, the 550 person holiday party that was just tossed over to them.
540
00:42:39,802.561 --> 00:42:47,422.561
You know, those people, that on-site learning is something that the sales team is never gonna know.
541
00:42:47,502.562 --> 00:42:48,542.563
They, they don't know.
542
00:42:48,542.563 --> 00:42:51,942.562
The, the marketing team that's back in the office, they don't know that.
543
00:42:52,392.562 --> 00:42:52,652.562
Yeah.
544
00:42:52,652.562 --> 00:42:59,982.56
And so that is such a gift to be on-site, knowing what's happening, feeling that energy.
545
00:42:59,992.56 --> 00:43:00,22.56
Yep.
546
00:43:00,32.561 --> 00:43:02,932.561
Seeing that, oh, that lighting made them feel that way.
547
00:43:02,972.563 --> 00:43:04,762.56
Oh, this, this works, that works.
548
00:43:05,222.563 --> 00:43:14,32.559
Those people need a seat at the table where they're deciding budgets, where they're making, you know, the decisions of whether or not to even have that event versus this event.
549
00:43:14,282.561 --> 00:43:20,172.561
Because when you're in that moment, there's something that's not, it's not a number.
550
00:43:20,222.563 --> 00:43:23,542.564
It's not something that can be represented like that.
551
00:43:23,652.564 --> 00:43:29,232.565
But those people should have a say at the table as to how much we spend next year.
552
00:43:29,522.559 --> 00:43:29,872.559
Oh, yeah.
553
00:43:30,312.56 --> 00:43:33,162.564
As to, you know, whether that event worked, whether it didn't work.
554
00:43:33,192.565 --> 00:43:44,882.561
Maybe they don't have the framework or the knowledge yet to say why it worked, but to have a seat at the table to contribute because they're there, I am such a, such a proponent of getting these people at the table.
555
00:43:45,302.558 --> 00:43:45,862.558
100%.
556
00:43:45,912.558 --> 00:43:46,842.564
I couldn't agree more.
557
00:43:46,922.56 --> 00:43:49,362.558
And a couple, that gave me a couple thoughts, Jenny.
558
00:43:49,362.563 --> 00:43:57,712.561
One was, the first one was, you know, you talk about being on-site and, and having com- having passion or co- having compassion for the people on-site.
559
00:43:58,882.559 --> 00:44:02,62.559
This was not something I did purposely, it's just naturally who I am.
560
00:44:02,112.563 --> 00:44:10,222.557
But my first go-to on-site, and I love being on-site, love being on-site, I love seeing all this work come together and the build-out.
561
00:44:11,52.558 --> 00:44:13,202.558
I go to the crew, I go to the production crew.
562
00:44:14,92.566 --> 00:44:25,112.559
They're, they're my best friends because I, they're genuinely good people, they're smart, they're talented, but they're also really the fulcrum point of the entire event.
563
00:44:25,172.553 --> 00:44:36,162.567
Because if they're in the middle of building out a stage, and I don't know, maybe they're not motivated or fired up that day, guess what? Your whole event starts sliding.
564
00:44:36,912.558 --> 00:44:44,42.565
So I immediately go to the crew, "You guys need coffee? What are you doing today? Oh, what's your name? Where are you from? Awesome job.
565
00:44:44,42.565 --> 00:44:45,142.561
You guys are doing great."
566
00:44:45,662.558 --> 00:44:51,484.563
And, and that resonates with them so much because I don't think a lot of people do that.
567
00:44:51,904.563 --> 00:44:58,664.563
They're just the, you know, they're just the crew running around in a black T-shirt, black pants, setting up the stage, and no one cares about them.
568
00:44:59,114.563 --> 00:45:00,434.563
But you go straight...
569
00:45:00,724.562 --> 00:45:05,934.563
Here's a learning c- here's f- here's a learning opportunity for our u- um, early-in-your-career folks.
570
00:45:06,294.562 --> 00:45:06,924.563
Go to the crew.
571
00:45:07,714.562 --> 00:45:08,704.563
Go to the crew.
572
00:45:08,844.563 --> 00:45:11,234.563
Make them your best friends, 100%.
573
00:45:11,234.563 --> 00:45:13,384.562
They're there for 12, 16 hours sometimes.
574
00:45:13,634.562 --> 00:45:16,74.562
Make sure that there's a pot of coffee, water.
575
00:45:16,124.562 --> 00:45:18,954.563
Do they have their breakfast, lunch, and dinner? Absolutely.
576
00:45:19,304.562 --> 00:45:19,714.562
Yeah.
577
00:45:19,724.562 --> 00:45:19,754.562
Yes.
578
00:45:19,994.561 --> 00:45:25,694.563
And it's so funny that, you know, the bigger the event, the more the vendors, the more people that are behind you.
579
00:45:25,724.561 --> 00:45:38,904.561
And we don't throw events so that we can be like, "Oh, we're the star of the show," you know? We're not that kind of people, but we are only one of just hundreds if not- Yep thousands sometimes an event that are just pulling this together.
580
00:45:38,934.563 --> 00:45:40,724.56
We're just the one, we're the face of it.
581
00:45:41,234.563 --> 00:45:44,384.56
And so taking care of these people, they definitely...
582
00:45:44,724.561 --> 00:45:52,114.562
Um, I have a lot of vendors that are, you know, so grateful to work with me and wanna work with me again because I make sure to take care of them.
583
00:45:52,124.562 --> 00:45:52,154.562
Yep.
584
00:45:52,344.563 --> 00:45:55,74.561
And that is so key and such a great point to bring up.
585
00:45:55,474.561 --> 00:45:56,734.559
Call it hospitality.
586
00:45:56,734.563 --> 00:45:57,764.559
Call it leadership.
587
00:45:57,824.559 --> 00:46:01,244.562
Call it, even if you w- call it being an event producer.
588
00:46:01,294.56 --> 00:46:06,94.561
It's you have to, you have to take care of your people, 1000%.
589
00:46:06,324.559 --> 00:46:12,554.564
Um, you know, if humor's not your thing, like, I have to be careful because I, I have a loud laugh.
590
00:46:12,554.564 --> 00:46:14,734.558
And when I'm on site, I laugh all day long.
591
00:46:15,744.565 --> 00:46:22,844.56
I, and so I use humor to, as a part, form of my leadership and taking care of people and my, my version of hospitality.
592
00:46:23,234.563 --> 00:46:25,924.564
But if it's not, if you don't have that, totally fine.
593
00:46:26,414.563 --> 00:46:27,964.562
You know, just listen.
594
00:46:28,394.559 --> 00:46:34,824.564
If someone says, if you hear someone say, "Oh, I really like a Hershey chocolate bar," go get him a H- go get him a Hershey chocolate bar.
595
00:46:34,824.564 --> 00:46:35,624.559
Just be like, "Here.
596
00:46:35,904.561 --> 00:46:37,634.563
Thanks for doing a great job," and then walk away.
597
00:46:38,204.564 --> 00:46:40,914.563
And you'll have so many raving fans.
598
00:46:41,624.562 --> 00:46:43,774.564
Oh, it's the, it's the secret sauce.
599
00:46:44,884.557 --> 00:46:46,664.559
And you were around during COVID.
600
00:46:46,664.559 --> 00:46:46,694.562
Mm-hmm.
601
00:46:46,694.562 --> 00:46:56,934.567
And so you went through the trauma and, that we all did, of post-COVID people that knew how to do e- events.
602
00:46:56,984.555 --> 00:47:03,854.554
And then, you know, 2020 when we were rebuilding, in 2021, it, it was basically all new people.
603
00:47:03,864.56 --> 00:47:07,534.56
You know- Mm-hmm at that level, people couldn't sustain a year and a half without work.
604
00:47:07,834.561 --> 00:47:09,984.563
And so we have a new industry now.
605
00:47:09,994.565 --> 00:47:10,24.565
Yep.
606
00:47:10,34.558 --> 00:47:17,84.565
And so it's definitely, um, you know, the pre-COVID, post-COVID production teams and the, you know, the staff.
607
00:47:17,444.562 --> 00:47:20,674.558
It's, it's a whole, every, it's everyone's a new face.
608
00:47:21,24.564 --> 00:47:23,244.558
Yep, 100%.
609
00:47:23,244.558 --> 00:47:24,444.554
And COVID was hard.
610
00:47:24,474.561 --> 00:47:28,654.566
You know, you talk about not being able to go a year, a year and a half, even two years without income.
611
00:47:29,114.56 --> 00:47:31,184.567
I ended up, here's, here's a funny story.
612
00:47:31,184.567 --> 00:47:33,674.562
Here's a Jumper curiosity story.
613
00:47:33,724.561 --> 00:47:37,674.563
I pivoted to real estate because I was living in Portland, Oregon.
614
00:47:37,804.562 --> 00:47:41,264.562
Real estate was still screaming hot, screaming hot.
615
00:47:41,334.561 --> 00:47:45,42.563
I'm like, "Eh- I don't have many other choices.
616
00:47:45,922.563 --> 00:47:46,942.563
Okay, here we go.
617
00:47:46,972.563 --> 00:47:52,382.563
So I studied my little butt off, passed the real estate exam, and off I went, but I hated it.
618
00:47:52,442.563 --> 00:47:53,632.563
I absolutely hated it.
619
00:47:53,722.563 --> 00:47:55,692.562
It was ju- I just did not like it.
620
00:47:55,692.562 --> 00:47:56,442.563
It was not for me.
621
00:47:57,132.563 --> 00:47:59,902.563
Um, but then coming back into...
622
00:48:00,272.562 --> 00:48:02,232.562
I decided one day, I'm like, "This isn't for me.
623
00:48:02,232.563 --> 00:48:03,112.562
I gotta make a change."
624
00:48:04,272.562 --> 00:48:09,772.562
So, you know, in, in s- in the spirit of humor, I said to my therapist, I said, "Hey, I think I need to go back and do events."
625
00:48:09,772.562 --> 00:48:17,56.563
She's like, "Are you sure that's a good idea?" I said, "Probably not, but I'm doing it anyways."
626
00:48:17,66.563 --> 00:48:21,186.563
And I said, "If the upside of it is, you'll probably get more business from me, so I'm going back in."
627
00:48:21,676.563 --> 00:48:22,336.563
And you're right.
628
00:48:23,236.563 --> 00:48:25,616.562
I got back in the industry, and it was completely different.
629
00:48:25,956.563 --> 00:48:26,876.563
Completely different.
630
00:48:27,326.563 --> 00:48:35,166.563
You know, it, the ROI conversation c- came into play a little bit, not as much as it is now, but it certainly started there a little bit.
631
00:48:36,46.562 --> 00:48:36,926.562
Uh, and it was.
632
00:48:36,926.563 --> 00:48:39,66.562
It was fresh faces, different personalities.
633
00:48:39,66.563 --> 00:48:40,536.562
It was different ballgame.
634
00:48:40,896.563 --> 00:48:41,706.563
Different ballgame.
635
00:48:42,776.562 --> 00:48:43,416.562
That's so funny.
636
00:48:43,416.563 --> 00:48:44,636.562
We have so many parallels.
637
00:48:44,636.562 --> 00:48:51,716.562
During COVID, I was running six social media accounts of real estate agents because I needed a side job because I had lost all my corporate clients.
638
00:48:52,56.563 --> 00:48:56,486.563
So I thought, "You know what? I'm going to get my real estate license."
639
00:48:56,726.561 --> 00:48:58,416.561
So I studied for the Colorado- Are you serious? Yes.
640
00:48:58,416.563 --> 00:49:00,236.563
I studied for the Colorado real estate license.
641
00:49:00,316.561 --> 00:49:15,86.563
I got to the end, and so I had these six clients, and my loophole working for my clients is that I hadn't signed the Colorado real estate license agreement that I, when I advertise on Facebook and Instagram, that I have to use the fair market housing.
642
00:49:15,96.563 --> 00:49:19,316.564
You don't have to do that unless you are a s- like, a licensed real estate agent.
643
00:49:19,556.559 --> 00:49:22,106.56
As a marketing person, I didn't have to follow that rule.
644
00:49:22,486.559 --> 00:49:24,456.559
And so I thought, "Well, I'm not gonna do that.
645
00:49:24,456.56 --> 00:49:30,6.564
I'm gonna lose all my clients 'cause I'm gonna have to follow that rule, and I'm gonna lose, you know, all- Yeah of these people."
646
00:49:30,6.564 --> 00:49:36,586.561
And so I ended up not taking the test and passing, doing all of that for one little caveat so I could have that loophole and I could advertise to more people.
647
00:49:37,106.562 --> 00:49:38,196.563
I love it.
648
00:49:38,206.56 --> 00:49:38,986.565
I didn't know that.
649
00:49:39,46.564 --> 00:49:40,226.558
Look at, we're still learning.
650
00:49:40,236.559 --> 00:49:40,876.562
We're still learning.
651
00:49:40,876.562 --> 00:49:41,316.564
I love it.
652
00:49:41,336.558 --> 00:49:42,286.559
That's so funny.
653
00:49:42,356.562 --> 00:49:43,336.561
That's so funny.
654
00:49:43,706.56 --> 00:49:45,366.561
We're innovators, but we're back.
655
00:49:45,366.564 --> 00:49:48,836.564
We're both back to the events industry, and I do...
656
00:49:48,866.564 --> 00:50:01,496.564
I'm going to come back to your, your career at the intersection of creativity and strategy, and I would love for you to just give a little bit of insight to the experiential professionals in the events.
657
00:50:01,646.563 --> 00:50:07,116.563
Who, who do you think's going to be the ones who really thrive in the next 10 years? Yep.
658
00:50:07,196.558 --> 00:50:10,846.558
And that, a- and I really liked that question too when I was doing my homework.
659
00:50:11,406.557 --> 00:50:21,786.564
Um, I'm, I've, again, very humbly so, discovered that I'm, I'm a little bit of a unicorn because I can straddle both sides of the fence.
660
00:50:22,826.563 --> 00:50:47,136.559
And it's, it doesn't always serve me well, I'll be honest with you, because someone, if someone asks me, "Well, what do you do?" Or you know, "What do you wanna do?" I'm like, "I honestly I wanna work, work, work with cool people and do co- cool shit, but does that mean I'm logistics boss, or does that mean I'm the creative boss? What do, what do you want me to do? W- which, which one do you need?" So it, it often goes flat because I can't...
661
00:50:48,466.562 --> 00:50:50,656.565
'Cause, 'cause people want me to choose, and I'm like, "I can do both.
662
00:50:50,696.558 --> 00:50:52,496.552
I can do, do both at a very high level."
663
00:50:53,236.567 --> 00:51:10,428.563
So I think going forward, the people that will be successful are the people that can do both, that can be a little bit of that unicorn, and- um, in the spirit of real estate sell themselves in a manner that shows they can do both.
664
00:51:11,578.563 --> 00:51:22,658.563
And I'll be honest with you, I'm still grappling with how to sell myself in that, in that capacity of, again, I can l- I can do logistics and floor plans and run a show, production schedules.
665
00:51:22,658.563 --> 00:51:39,428.563
I can do all that, but I can also give you super cool freaking creative ideas that are interruptive and disruptive to get your audience, to get your guests' atten- uh, attention I absolutely agree with that.
666
00:51:39,508.563 --> 00:51:40,28.563
I...
667
00:51:40,398.563 --> 00:51:45,88.563
One thing that I would push back on is the logistics, we have AI.
668
00:51:45,88.563 --> 00:51:51,48.562
I think AI is gonna take over- Mm-hmm the run of shows and the, the tedious little stuff.
669
00:51:51,418.562 --> 00:52:10,678.562
And even though AI has, you know, creative abilities, I can say what I want in the chat and it- Yeah creates something cool, I think the creatives and those that can prove event success, I think those are the ones that are really going to show up and get the real, you know, brand jobs and the big jobs.
670
00:52:10,718.563 --> 00:52:12,188.56
And it's, it's not hard.
671
00:52:12,218.563 --> 00:52:14,358.562
Like I said, you don't have to earn an MBA.
672
00:52:14,548.561 --> 00:52:22,748.562
You just have to be able to show that your event that's so creative, over the top, dripping with diamonds and all the things, actually did something.
673
00:52:22,758.563 --> 00:52:22,778.563
Yeah.
674
00:52:22,788.562 --> 00:52:25,248.56
And what was that thing that it did? Yeah.
675
00:52:25,578.563 --> 00:52:27,48.563
I like, I like that pushback.
676
00:52:27,98.564 --> 00:52:27,708.56
I'll take it.
677
00:52:28,198.562 --> 00:52:28,818.562
I'll take it.
678
00:52:29,648.563 --> 00:52:33,788.561
Um, because I think you're, you're, you're correct.
679
00:52:33,958.56 --> 00:52:37,588.563
Um, AI scares me a little bit.
680
00:52:37,628.562 --> 00:52:46,78.563
It probably scares all of us a little bit, but, um, I think it will, faster than we realize, take over the logistics piece, honestly.
681
00:52:46,88.561 --> 00:52:48,38.563
It's, it's fa- it's moving fast.
682
00:52:48,778.564 --> 00:52:53,998.559
Um, I've seen firsthand, especially during my time at AWS, how fast and how far along it really is.
683
00:52:54,768.562 --> 00:52:58,678.558
Um, so yeah, I think the creative folks, and that can prove it.
684
00:52:59,148.559 --> 00:53:00,228.565
I, yeah, I like it.
685
00:53:00,908.561 --> 00:53:02,328.563
I can buy into that 100%.
686
00:53:02,548.561 --> 00:53:11,796.563
And it takes, it takes- It takes leadership and it takes emotional intelligence to deliver what AI is gonna give you.
687
00:53:11,796.563 --> 00:53:17,196.563
How about that? That's also gonna be the key for future success.
688
00:53:18,326.563 --> 00:53:26,556.562
And I would love to have another podcast with you where we just dive into the emotional intelligence and how much is needed in this industry.
689
00:53:27,6.563 --> 00:53:30,576.562
So I will put a pin in that, and we have to set up a date to do that.
690
00:53:30,606.562 --> 00:53:31,166.562
Oh, no, don't put a pin in it.
691
00:53:31,186.562 --> 00:53:32,736.563
Just send me the calendar invite now.
692
00:53:32,736.563 --> 00:53:33,146.562
I'm in.
693
00:53:33,166.563 --> 00:53:33,836.562
Let's go.
694
00:53:34,666.563 --> 00:53:35,356.563
I love it.
695
00:53:35,806.563 --> 00:53:37,146.561
But what-- Let me see.
696
00:53:37,356.562 --> 00:53:46,566.564
So before I let you go, what are you working on right now? What are you excited about? What should people listening know all about Matthew? Give it to me in the hot...
697
00:53:46,576.563 --> 00:53:47,826.56
What is it? The Hot One Show.
698
00:53:47,846.564 --> 00:53:49,966.563
Give it to me in the Hot One Show- The Hot One Show without freestyle.
699
00:53:49,976.561 --> 00:53:55,276.562
Um, in full transparency and honesty, I am not working on anything at the moment.
700
00:53:55,306.563 --> 00:54:00,686.561
I am hell-bent on getting connected with a creative agency out of New York.
701
00:54:00,966.563 --> 00:54:03,246.561
Um, call it Invisible North.
702
00:54:03,416.563 --> 00:54:06,26.56
Jeff Renaud, if you're listening to this, come on, dude.
703
00:54:06,36.562 --> 00:54:06,746.563
Let's go.
704
00:54:07,276.56 --> 00:54:13,296.559
Um, you know, the-- I wanna, I wanna play with the big boys, the Jack Morton's, the MVE's, the Soho Experientials.
705
00:54:13,406.561 --> 00:54:21,446.564
Um, I have the chops to do it 100%, and I'm networking like a madman right now to get the connections.
706
00:54:21,996.565 --> 00:54:25,76.558
Oh, that's another one, you know, for future success, networking.
707
00:54:25,116.56 --> 00:54:30,596.561
It's gonna become a highly valuable skill going forward, highly.
708
00:54:30,726.561 --> 00:54:35,376.561
So just get out there in front of your network, meet people, shake hands, go do the action.
709
00:54:36,46.561 --> 00:54:38,336.559
Um, so I'm on the hunt, Jenny.
710
00:54:38,336.561 --> 00:54:42,646.564
I'm on the hunt for doing big, creative, cool shit with cool people type thing.
711
00:54:42,836.561 --> 00:54:48,486.564
Um, you know, again, the Invisible North, the Jack Morton's, the MVE's, the Soho Experientials, and there's so much more.
712
00:54:48,506.56 --> 00:54:54,936.561
EMC3 is another one that's high on my list of tremendous people that, uh, that organization.
713
00:54:55,26.564 --> 00:55:12,290.563
Uh, Daniel and Lee I've met recently are phenomenal people Well, I think that is absolutely obtainable, especially from your resume and me chatting through the way that you build these events, and all of your events on your resume stacked sounds like you're very much in line with that.
714
00:55:12,580.563 --> 00:55:14,660.563
Tell me about, you're on a panel next week in New York.
715
00:55:14,680.563 --> 00:55:15,430.562
Tell me about that.
716
00:55:15,740.563 --> 00:55:16,310.563
Yes.
717
00:55:16,340.562 --> 00:55:32,190.563
I, in, in true form, uh, to my statement on get out there and network and meet people and be in the mix face to face, I was introduced to Pulse, uh, which is a sort of a networking series that takes place in New York City and Miami.
718
00:55:32,630.562 --> 00:55:35,190.561
Uh, I was invited to attend Pulse last week.
719
00:55:35,200.562 --> 00:55:39,190.562
I went, and I was like a kid in a candy shop.
720
00:55:39,190.564 --> 00:55:40,220.562
It was so fun.
721
00:55:40,250.561 --> 00:55:44,150.562
Just so many smart people and ideas and creative inspiration.
722
00:55:44,640.561 --> 00:55:52,860.562
Um, had a great conversation with Daniel, the owner of EMC3, and Lee, who is, oh, forgive me, I forget his title off the top of my head.
723
00:55:52,860.562 --> 00:55:56,90.562
I think he's North American business development VP.
724
00:55:56,810.563 --> 00:56:06,790.561
Um, based on those conversations and j- again, just getting face to face, they said, "Hey, do you wanna come be on our panel next week?" And I'm like, "Uh, yeah, I do.
725
00:56:07,200.562 --> 00:56:09,720.565
What are we gonna talk about?" ROI.
726
00:56:09,840.561 --> 00:56:12,890.564
Oh, guess what? There's that word again, ROI.
727
00:56:12,920.563 --> 00:56:18,620.562
So we're gonna, we're gonna do a panel, uh, and talk about how to build engaging events that show ROI.
728
00:56:18,630.562 --> 00:56:22,380.559
Um- Where's it gonna be? It is at...
729
00:56:22,780.564 --> 00:56:24,970.565
Ooh, boy, you just handcuffed me right there.
730
00:56:25,430.558 --> 00:56:26,940.563
I can send the information afterwards.
731
00:56:27,280.563 --> 00:56:27,640.563
It's at- That's okay.
732
00:56:28,830.559 --> 00:56:29,160.559
Yeah.
733
00:56:29,270.562 --> 00:56:30,510.56
We'll, I'll get it to you afterwards.
734
00:56:30,550.56 --> 00:56:34,650.564
Yeah, send me the, send me the notes so that I can put it in there if people wanna come and listen to you.
735
00:56:34,650.564 --> 00:56:35,220.562
'Cause I wanna...
736
00:56:35,260.56 --> 00:56:37,60.562
I would come, but I'm not in New York yet.
737
00:56:37,80.559 --> 00:56:37,560.563
I will be there next month.
738
00:56:37,560.563 --> 00:56:40,590.558
I did a, um, actually, I did a LinkedIn post on it this morning.
739
00:56:40,640.565 --> 00:56:44,380.562
Um, so if folks wanna go look at my LinkedIn profile, Matthew Barney.
740
00:56:44,890.557 --> 00:56:51,370.563
Uh, there's a couple of us, but I'm, I think I'm the only one bald dude on, on LinkedIn, so you can find me that way.
741
00:56:52,460.564 --> 00:56:53,260.564
Perfect.
742
00:56:53,570.557 --> 00:56:55,700.559
All right, so I have one more question for you.
743
00:56:55,950.562 --> 00:56:56,270.562
Yes.
744
00:56:56,270.562 --> 00:57:08,190.559
If you could go back to the version of yourself that was just starting out in this industry, and I, somehow I can picture you in my mind leaving the Coast Guard, just hopping a flight, telling Microsoft you're gonna work for them.
745
00:57:08,190.56 --> 00:57:13,70.561
I kinda see you, you just told, is it Jack Morton, that you're basically gonna go work for them? I see that happening.
746
00:57:13,350.564 --> 00:57:13,380.564
Yep.
747
00:57:13,380.564 --> 00:57:13,558.0615
Yep.
748
00:57:13,558.0615 --> 00:57:21,40.554
So what would you tell, what would you tell this person, that version of yourself 15 years ago? Oof.
749
00:57:21,80.559 --> 00:57:22,590.561
That wasn't in the homework, Jenny.
750
00:57:24,310.555 --> 00:57:24,820.559
I'm sorry.
751
00:57:25,40.566 --> 00:57:26,710.558
You're gonna have to learn to think on the spot.
752
00:57:26,710.564 --> 00:57:27,460.554
I know you can.
753
00:57:27,470.559 --> 00:57:27,960.561
I know.
754
00:57:28,10.567 --> 00:57:29,30.559
No, I- I know.
755
00:57:29,30.559 --> 00:57:30,120.554
I, I can do that well.
756
00:57:30,290.566 --> 00:57:38,828.563
Um, you might make me choke up a little bit here and get emotional I would tell myself, you're gonna be a rock star, dude.
757
00:57:38,848.563 --> 00:57:39,748.563
Just keep going.
758
00:57:40,648.563 --> 00:57:41,548.563
Just keep going.
759
00:57:41,878.563 --> 00:57:42,658.563
Just say yes.
760
00:57:42,688.563 --> 00:57:43,408.563
Keep jumping.
761
00:57:43,418.563 --> 00:57:44,478.563
Keep being curious.
762
00:57:45,458.563 --> 00:57:50,798.563
One day you're gonna wake up on a podcast with Jenny and you're gonna be speaking on a panel.
763
00:57:51,778.562 --> 00:57:53,218.562
Just be you.
764
00:57:54,138.563 --> 00:57:57,678.563
Keep going, keep jumping, and s- don't ever lose curiosity.
765
00:57:59,248.562 --> 00:58:00,478.562
That is Matthew Barney.
766
00:58:00,488.563 --> 00:58:01,198.562
Go find him on LinkedIn.
767
00:58:01,878.563 --> 00:58:03,178.561
The link is in the show notes.
768
00:58:03,218.563 --> 00:58:15,808.563
If what Matthew and I talked about today resonated with you at all, if you heard yourself in this conversation and you're ready to build the strategic foundation that backs up the creative instinct you already have, I wanna invite you to watch the Proof Problem Masterclass.
769
00:58:16,48.563 --> 00:58:22,938.561
It's free, it's 30 minutes, and it's the framework that turns everything we talked about today into something you can measure, prove, and get paid for.
770
00:58:23,298.563 --> 00:58:33,540.563
The link is in the show notes, and I will see you in the next episode Thanks for listening to The Experiential Strategist.
771
00:58:34,100.563 --> 00:58:35,770.563
New episodes every week.
772
00:58:36,70.563 --> 00:58:40,220.563
Follow the show and leave a review if this conversation changed how you think
00:00:02,614 --> 00:00:31,314.563
She spent 20 years working with some of the world's most recognized brands before she asked the question nobody else was asking: What if you could design an event so intentionally that you could prove exactly what it changed? This is The Experiential Strategist, the strategy conversation the events industry has needed, with your host, Jenny Howard Maxwell Today, I'm so excited.
2
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I have my very first guest, and I couldn't have picked a better one.
3
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He's an experiential event leader out of Philadelphia.
4
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He's worked with brands like AWS and Delta.
5
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His LinkedIn headline describes him as a creative person who became incredibly operational- operationally dangerous.
6
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And the moment that I read that, I just knew we had to talk.
7
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Matthew Barney, welcome to The Experiential Strategist.
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Thank you, Jenny.
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I, I have to be honest with you, I, I...
10
00:01:01,164.561 --> 00:01:02,414.562
Excited isn't the right word.
11
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I woke up this morning, and I was like, "It's podcast day.
12
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Here we go."
13
00:01:07,884.562 --> 00:01:09,364.561
I, I jumped out of bed.
14
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I forgot I didn't even have my coffee.
15
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I'm like, "Wait, dude, you didn't have coffee yet.
16
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You gotta, you gotta slow your roll here a little."
17
00:01:16,14.559 --> 00:01:25,74.561
Well, I'm caffeinated up for both of us, so- Perfect you know, it might just be me having to hush hush down because I'm just buzz, buzz, buzz.
18
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But actually, I know that's not true, because we have chatted a couple times now, and your story's fascinating, and I would love it, you can start with your headline, the creative person, or you can just tell me a little bit about your backstory to, to get us started.
19
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I appreciate that.
20
00:01:40,484.561 --> 00:01:40,944.561
Thank you.
21
00:01:41,34.564 --> 00:01:48,84.558
Um, I'm ta- I, I wanna take a different approach with my backstory, 'cause I did put a lot of time and effort into what we're gonna talk about.
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A- a- and, and that is, is, was just it made me so happy.
23
00:01:52,254.557 --> 00:02:01,424.559
Uh, instead of jumping into like a list of a resume or here's, here's all the corporate stuff or I've done, or here's all the career stuff I've done, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go this way.
24
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Who I am.
25
00:02:03,674.563 --> 00:02:05,874.561
Uh, first of all, we can't unpack it all today.
26
00:02:05,904.559 --> 00:02:08,864.564
We would need a bottle of tequila and a campfire to go there, Jenny.
27
00:02:09,364.558 --> 00:02:09,764.558
It would...
28
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We'd have to get down.
29
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We'd have to get down.
30
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The, the blue one that you go ding at the top.
31
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Every time I hear a fact about you, I'll just ding the top.
32
00:02:17,24.554 --> 00:02:17,314.554
Yeah.
33
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Done.
34
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It's, it, it's on.
35
00:02:19,494.561 --> 00:02:19,694.555
Done.
36
00:02:20,284.564 --> 00:02:22,244.567
Um, but I'm, I'm a builder.
37
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I'm c- I'm curious, and I'm a jumper.
38
00:02:25,424.563 --> 00:02:30,944.56
Um, and those are, that's really wraps me up in a nice little package.
39
00:02:30,974.566 --> 00:02:35,934.567
When I say I'm a builder, it's because I've always been drawn to creating things.
40
00:02:36,24.554 --> 00:02:38,904.553
Uh, I've always been drawn to people that are creating things.
41
00:02:38,944.567 --> 00:02:44,244.554
I've always been drawn to communities that, that do, that do well, that are successful.
42
00:02:44,754.565 --> 00:02:47,954.562
Um, sometimes it's an idea, sometimes it's a business.
43
00:02:47,994.555 --> 00:02:57,634.563
But sa- taking something from Concept to reality or something from a blank canvas to a beautiful piece of what I call art.
44
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And art isn't just something you hang on your wall, on your wall.
45
00:03:01,294.563 --> 00:03:12,754.563
Um, I'm curious because, again, I'm fascinated by people and experiences, and most of the interesting things that I've done from life have started from just pure curiosity.
46
00:03:13,324.563 --> 00:03:14,914.562
I'm, I'm Mr.
47
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Rabbit Hole.
48
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Uh, you know, the, the World Wide Web is a wonderful thing, uh, sometimes at 2:00 AM when I can't sleep, but it is.
49
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It just gives so much information, and there's so many different ways to, to dive into a topic and learn about people.
50
00:03:28,334.561 --> 00:03:31,564.561
Uh, Gary Vee, for example, I'm fascinated by him.
51
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We talked about him several times now.
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Uh, fascinated by him.
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And so to have the ability to go down that rabbit hole and get curious about him and learn from him, it's a great gift.
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And then I think the, the-- my favorite one is I'm a jumper.
55
00:03:46,584.561 --> 00:03:50,394.562
I, uh, I like to stand on a cliff, look down and say, "Yeah, there's water down there.
56
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I don't know what's underneath it.
57
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I don't know what's gonna happen, but I'm gonna jump anyways.
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00:03:54,894.562 --> 00:03:55,844.563
I'm just gonna go do it."
59
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And that has put me in some really interesting, unique situations.
60
00:04:00,114.56 --> 00:04:05,974.559
And all those three put together, Jenny, that's, that's just created a unique story.
61
00:04:06,354.565 --> 00:04:07,774.559
I, I just have a great story.
62
00:04:07,914.563 --> 00:04:08,914.559
Uh, humbly so.
63
00:04:09,244.565 --> 00:04:15,982.563
I'm not being prideful, so forgive me, but humbly so, I think I have a really cool story I think you do too.
64
00:04:16,62.563 --> 00:04:20,892.563
I've heard maybe 1/1000 of what your story is, but it's fascinating.
65
00:04:21,172.563 --> 00:04:32,42.562
I do wanna point out a couple things that you just said, and I feel like I'm very similar to you because I am an artist in my own way.
66
00:04:32,52.562 --> 00:04:32,72.562
Yeah.
67
00:04:32,112.563 --> 00:04:35,642.562
Although I can't draw to save my life, I'm an artist- Nope in my own way.
68
00:04:35,642.562 --> 00:04:45,702.562
I can create experiences that will blow you out of the water, and thank God, AI, now I can tell it, "Hey, give me a kind of an example of what's going on in my brain so I can show somebody else."
69
00:04:46,62.562 --> 00:04:50,222.562
And then your risk-taking is what makes you a great entrepreneur, I think.
70
00:04:50,222.562 --> 00:04:50,472.562
Thank you.
71
00:04:50,472.562 --> 00:04:55,122.562
And that's how you, you land these great amazing clients like AWS and Delta.
72
00:04:55,732.56 --> 00:05:02,602.561
So do you wanna go into a little bit more of your story and how you got where you are? Sure.
73
00:05:02,722.562 --> 00:05:03,692.561
Um, ding, ding.
74
00:05:03,702.562 --> 00:05:05,462.562
We'll, we'll start with the first tequila shot.
75
00:05:05,462.564 --> 00:05:06,52.561
We'll go down.
76
00:05:06,702.562 --> 00:05:08,802.563
Um, this is one of...
77
00:05:08,842.561 --> 00:05:17,952.561
Again, I- my, my filter for doing stuff is, is this gonna make a cool story one day? And if it's- if the answer is yes, then we go.
78
00:05:18,722.562 --> 00:05:21,42.565
I- how I got doing events...
79
00:05:21,482.564 --> 00:05:27,322.563
Is that proper English? How, how I got introduced to events, uh, is really- is a really cool story.
80
00:05:27,342.565 --> 00:05:28,972.559
I just got out of the Coast Guard.
81
00:05:29,792.562 --> 00:05:34,592.56
Um, you know, the transition from military life to civilian life was not easy.
82
00:05:34,602.559 --> 00:05:35,672.559
It was very challenging.
83
00:05:36,352.559 --> 00:05:37,842.561
I was selling computer hardware.
84
00:05:38,512.563 --> 00:05:40,22.561
Jenny, I had no idea what I was doing.
85
00:05:40,102.559 --> 00:05:42,52.559
I had zero idea what I was doing.
86
00:05:42,82.563 --> 00:05:44,132.558
I can't even remember the hardware that I was selling.
87
00:05:44,132.558 --> 00:05:45,282.558
It's probably obsolete now.
88
00:05:45,782.56 --> 00:05:49,392.562
Um- You just needed a job? You just needed- Oh, yeah a transition job? Yep.
89
00:05:49,452.558 --> 00:05:50,522.559
I just needed a job.
90
00:05:50,912.565 --> 00:06:01,122.559
Um, and they came to me one day and they said, "Hey, do you wanna go to Seattle to the Microsoft conference and, and, and man the booth and sell the product at the booth?" And I, and I didn't think, "Yeah, that sounds great.
91
00:06:01,152.562 --> 00:06:03,32.561
I'm gonna get commissions out of this.
92
00:06:03,42.562 --> 00:06:05,552.558
It's gonna boost my, my positioning in the company."
93
00:06:05,552.564 --> 00:06:05,762.559
I was...
94
00:06:05,792.562 --> 00:06:06,642.559
I thought, "No.
95
00:06:07,652.562 --> 00:06:08,702.56
I like Pearl Jam.
96
00:06:08,872.564 --> 00:06:10,172.559
Love Soundgarden.
97
00:06:10,622.564 --> 00:06:11,442.557
I like coffee.
98
00:06:11,442.563 --> 00:06:12,492.557
Starbucks is there.
99
00:06:13,32.56 --> 00:06:14,132.559
Yeah, I'll go to Seattle.
100
00:06:14,152.562 --> 00:06:27,12.567
Sure, why not?" And so I got there, my first ever conference or convention that I ever attended, and I ended up running into the woman that was running- that was the producer for the event running the show.
101
00:06:28,182.561 --> 00:06:29,12.554
And I said, "Wait a minute.
102
00:06:29,62.566 --> 00:06:35,472.56
This is your job? This is what you do? You just, you just put on these big conferences and conventions?" She's like, "Yeah."
103
00:06:37,706.563 --> 00:06:52,686.563
And I thought, "Why didn't anybody tell me this in school? Where, where was this, you know, six years ago?" I still would've went to the military because I loved it, and I still would've served in the Coast Guard 'cause I loved it, but I just, again, true to form, was like, "I'm in.
104
00:06:53,326.563 --> 00:06:59,376.563
Where do I sign up?" So I got her contact information, and I at the time was living in Buffalo, New York.
105
00:06:59,376.563 --> 00:07:07,366.563
I got back to Buffalo and just started researching her and, and what the event production world even was.
106
00:07:08,386.561 --> 00:07:14,306.563
And so finally after about a month, I, I emailed her and I said, "Hey, I have a one-way ticket to Seattle.
107
00:07:14,306.563 --> 00:07:15,216.564
I'm gonna come work with you."
108
00:07:15,226.563 --> 00:07:17,646.562
And she's like, "Excuse me?" She was...
109
00:07:18,256.562 --> 00:07:20,966.562
She was like, "Um, okay.
110
00:07:21,86.56 --> 00:07:22,786.563
Maybe we should talk a little first."
111
00:07:22,786.563 --> 00:07:23,706.563
I'm like, "It's too late.
112
00:07:23,706.563 --> 00:07:24,446.564
I already bought the ticket.
113
00:07:24,446.564 --> 00:07:25,66.56
I'm on the way."
114
00:07:25,266.561 --> 00:07:26,876.563
I have an apartment, I signed a lease.
115
00:07:26,906.564 --> 00:07:27,696.564
I didn't even see it.
116
00:07:27,696.564 --> 00:07:30,126.561
I just signed the lease, and off I went.
117
00:07:31,36.561 --> 00:07:40,796.56
Uh, we chatted, and she was very, uh, open to the idea of working together, and off we went, and that started my event production career.
118
00:07:40,956.563 --> 00:07:47,446.561
I didn't know anything, but, you know, the cool part of the story, Jenny, was I was kind of a natural.
119
00:07:48,236.562 --> 00:07:49,696.564
You know? I just jumped in.
120
00:07:49,746.564 --> 00:07:51,16.565
I was doing this.
121
00:07:51,16.565 --> 00:07:52,386.558
I was managing logistics.
122
00:07:52,416.562 --> 00:07:53,566.562
Budget was no problem.
123
00:07:54,176.564 --> 00:07:59,826.558
Um, I never needed much direction, and then I just fell in love, and, and I just took it.
124
00:07:59,836.56 --> 00:08:01,626.561
And all these years later, here I am still.
125
00:08:01,656.56 --> 00:08:05,306.56
I absolutely love event production and experiential.
126
00:08:05,956.563 --> 00:08:10,126.565
Um, and, and you know just as well as I do you either love it or you don't.
127
00:08:10,596.562 --> 00:08:11,376.558
There's no in between.
128
00:08:12,546.559 --> 00:08:15,816.562
And you're either good at it or you don't belong in the industry.
129
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Uh, yes.
130
00:08:17,626.562 --> 00:08:19,926.559
If you can't handle stress, pivot, and last-minute, absolutely.
131
00:08:20,516.561 --> 00:08:22,796.56
So that is an amazing story.
132
00:08:22,826.558 --> 00:08:26,206.563
I love that you just, you know, worked your way into a job.
133
00:08:26,236.562 --> 00:08:33,926.561
And you, you say in your, in your LinkedIn that you are operationally dangerous.
134
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Yes.
135
00:08:34,106.557 --> 00:08:40,176.558
And so when you started, were you creative or logistics? What...
136
00:08:40,206.563 --> 00:08:45,926.559
Which were you better at when you first started at this job 15 years ago? Great question, and I...
137
00:08:45,996.556 --> 00:08:47,386.562
We chatted about this too.
138
00:08:47,516.561 --> 00:08:50,636.555
Unfortunately, we're, we'll have to do 17 more podcasts, Jenny.
139
00:08:50,656.56 --> 00:08:54,486.562
Let's just, let's just confirm it now 'cause the audience won't, won't really hear what we've...
140
00:08:54,596.562 --> 00:08:56,816.559
You know, we've shared a lot, but the audience doesn't know that.
141
00:08:57,306.554 --> 00:09:03,638.563
Um- The answer is I was logistically, I was logistically good.
142
00:09:04,528.563 --> 00:09:10,258.563
Um, and I think that came from discipline instilled upon me through military service.
143
00:09:10,768.563 --> 00:09:12,288.563
Uh, I was very...
144
00:09:13,108.563 --> 00:09:22,58.563
All the I's were dotted, all the T's were crossed, because what I did in the Coast Guard was heavy weather search and rescue, and we had w- you had to be disciplined.
145
00:09:22,68.563 --> 00:09:24,208.563
You had to be on it.
146
00:09:24,378.562 --> 00:09:31,358.563
You had to make sure every I was dotted, T was crossed, because if you didn't, literally lives were at stake.
147
00:09:31,428.562 --> 00:09:38,888.561
And so I learned that operationally logistic dangerous, what, w- I I gotta remember my own tagline.
148
00:09:39,108.564 --> 00:09:42,48.562
Operationally dangerous through military service.
149
00:09:42,838.563 --> 00:10:03,918.561
It's been, it's been over the course of the last several years, Jenny, where, um, in full disclosure, you know, going to therapy, getting a life coach, um, becoming my own life coach, wanting to help people, that I discovered that I have, I am a creative person.
150
00:10:03,978.559 --> 00:10:05,378.565
I just haven't let them out yet.
151
00:10:06,588.56 --> 00:10:18,248.564
And so o- over the last handful of years, I've slowly let that person out, and it's been, it's just been a, like almost a sense of relief, if that makes sense.
152
00:10:18,248.564 --> 00:10:20,858.561
To be like, "Oh, yeah, here's Matthew.
153
00:10:21,378.561 --> 00:10:23,608.564
Where you been all this time, dude? Come on in."
154
00:10:23,608.564 --> 00:10:26,438.565
You know? Be, be yourself.
155
00:10:26,528.562 --> 00:10:29,178.561
Fly your f- fly your freak flag, as some people say.
156
00:10:29,818.563 --> 00:10:33,138.563
And that's where things really started catching fire for me.
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Um, having, you know, all these years of logistical excellence and production excellence, letting this creative person out of the door and allowing them just to combine with each other, it's been really rewarding, honestly, and just really s- self-fulfilling.
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It, it just...
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Happiness isn't even a word that can begin to cover it That's so fascinating to me because you're explaining to me that you kind of came into who you truly were, but when you tell me the story of your events and, you know, these, I call them the special sauce, the things that you gatekeep, the special things that you were sharing with me that you do in your events, those were beyond what a creative person would do.
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These are genius creativity level moves.
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And it's so interesting that you were already doing the thing that you really were, but it just took you realizing who you really were to align with what you were also doing.
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Yeah.
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So I find that pretty fascinating that you, you came into that.
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So the second course in my certification is called The Competitive Edge, and I teach about how people need to focus on their niche, what they're good at, whether it's creativity, marketing, or logistics, and really honing that in.
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And so that sounds like you did that exact thing on your own, and you figured that out.
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So I see one more thing that we're just aligned on.
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Yeah.
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I love that so much.
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Not surprising.
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There- there'll be more, Jenny.
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There'll be more.
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So I have to move on to the next question here, because I have so many things I wanna ask you, and you've worked with these major brands like AWS, Delta, some of the biggest brands in the world, and so what level of that experiential work does it...
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What does it teach you that smaller scale work cannot do? What changes when you're, when the stakes are so high, you know, you're, you're reporting to Delta, AWS, and it's not- Yeah just, you know, the little, you know, business down the street? You know, that's a really great question, and, and again, in doing my homework prepping for this, I don't know if I came up with an answer.
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Because sometimes I think the smaller things are way more difficult.
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I really do.
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I think the smaller the scale, the more challenges that, that, that are, that arise.
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Um, so doing those big, you know, the AWS, the Microsoft, the, the Nike leadership retreat stuff, I...
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It's just something that I don't know if I like the pressure.
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I don't know if I like the big spotlight.
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I don't know if I like the stress.
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I probably do.
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Um, I had a full head of hair when, when I started producing events, so there's an indication of the stress level.
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Um, I just am naturally more comfortable the bigger the project.
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The big- the bigger the limelight, the more comfortable I, I, I become.
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Um, you know, these smaller activations, if you will, or these smaller events or these- Um, smaller things that we put on seem to just take on a different life than the bigger, the bigger ones, if that makes sense.
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They ha- it's a different personality, it's a different creature.
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Uh, the process is all still pretty much the same, but it just moves and has its own Uh, personality is the best word I can come up with So you've shared with me a little bit about the personalities of some of your events.
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Are you willing to share some of your special sauce that I call them? Um, you know, there, there was one in particular in Seattle that I absolutely loved that story about the gift.
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And- Yeah um, will you share some of these special things that you do, whether it's a big scale event or a small scale that you do that really, we talk about emotion a lot, and I teach about emotion, how it's so key in triggering behavior in people.
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Would you share a little bit about maybe one of your stories of how you, how you do that? Yeah, I would love to.
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Um, and then yes, I was gatekeeping with you a little bit, but I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll pull the, I'll, I'll lift the hood a little bit and I'll show you the engine.
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Um, I discovered this by accident.
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I did a activation for some AWS execs, um, after one of our events.
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It...
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What, what event? It was Global Partner Summit.
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Um, true to who I am, I wanted to find a space that was cool, that was creative, that was different.
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I wanted to interrupt or even disrupt the norm.
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I wanted to do something different, uh, which is another in- interrupter and disrupter is another term that I think- I could use to describe myself as I go through my, continue to go through my learning process about who I am as a person.
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But I really wanted to disrupt and do something different and interrupt.
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So I found an art gallery in Pike Place Market in Seattle.
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Beautiful venue.
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G- uh, just, it gives me goosebumps just talking about it.
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Um, and the art gallery turned out to be owned by Mike McCready from Pearl Jam.
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And I was like, "Oh, really? This is cool.
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This is super cool."
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So I reached out to Chris Adams, who...
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By the way, if you're ever looking for someone to work with at a venue in Seattle, Chris Adams is amazing.
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Um, I'll even share his contact information with everybody after this.
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But he ended up being just amazing to work with.
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Uh, the interesting part that really concerned me about the a- art gallery gener- Jenny was the current installation or the current showing of, of art was all done by incarcerated in- incarcerated individuals, so inmates.
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And I was like, "Oof, that's a little bold, dude.
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Are you, are you sure you want to do..."
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You know, talking to myself, "Are you sure you wanna do that? Yep, we're jumping.
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Let's go."
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Um, when the pe- when the people walked in, the, the cool...
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This is what I love about doing experiential.
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The- their faces dropped.
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They looked around.
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You could see, like, just the awe.
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Just the awe.
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And it went over so well, so well.
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I think four or five people, including myself, bought art off the wall that night.
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Chris was amazing.
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He shipped it out to everybody.
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He's like, "Yep, no problem.
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I got you."
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His hospitality was off the charts.
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But the cool little...
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And I've done this a couple times now The cool little thing that I did was, and I have it over here in my, on my, amongst my other thousand books that I have.
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He did a, he took, while on tour, he took a Polaroid of the crowd or took a selfie.
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You know, before selfies were selfies, he took Polaroid selfies and, or he took Polaroids behind backstage, and he put them all into a book.
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And I was like, "Ooh."
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I said, "Chris, can you get me that book?" He's like, "Yeah, I can.
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Absolutely."
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So I'm like, "Cool.
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Give me," I think it was, "30 of these books," and that's all I said.
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He went above and beyond and had Mike sign every book for us as well, and when I gave those books out, people lost their minds.
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They really lost it.
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They went bananas over it, which was a really cool reaction to see.
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What was special about it, and this, the feedback I got, and I kind of already knew this, but I did receive the feedback, you know, the, the external feedback or the external, um, what's the word I wanna use? Validation.
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The external validation that I received was no one's done this.
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It's not AWS.
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There's no logo.
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There's no branding But I'm gonna keep this and I'm gonna remember this forever.
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And I've- and I did it another time, Jenny, with, uh, another activation at a restaurant in San Francisco.
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Um, what is the name of the re- uh, I'm blanking on the name of the restaurant.
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It'll come to me in a minute.
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But the chef, James Beard-winning r- chef, Michelin-rated restaurant, the chef had a cookbook.
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And I was like, "Ooh, can we get a cookbook for all the attendees and give it to them?" "Absolutely."
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Done.
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And again, the chef signed the book, and I gave the book out to people, and again, the reaction was just, it I, I The reaction was amazing.
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It was just really, really special to have that reaction.
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And, and again, the feedback was, I had an AWS exec call me, and she said, "You know, I look at that book every day, and A, I think about that event, but I think about you."
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And I was like, "Oof."
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First of all, humbled.
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Thank you.
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That's amazing.
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That was, you know, not necessarily my, my intention whatsoever, but it just started this, this idea of swag.
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I don't need another water bottle.
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I don't need more swag.
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I don't need another puffy vest.
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Give me something that I'm gonna remember, and that's where the idea kind of generated from, just to keep doing that.
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And it, it works.
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I gotta tell you, it works.
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I love that because it's intentional design, and I call it strategic experience design.
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We typically...
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A typical planner for a conference or a brand activation, you get a, a timeline, a list of to-dos.
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You maybe look at your budget for the last time and think, "Well, what do I switch this time?" If you look at it as, what can I do intentionally that's gonna make the most impact, you know, as opposed to, "Well, we gotta have some swag.
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What are we gonna throw in there?" Yeah.
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It makes the difference of night and day whether they're going to remember not just the event, who threw the event, you know, the purpose of the event, the why of the event, the intention of the event.
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Just locking in that, that memory right there, that is so key, and I call it- Yeah anchoring and activation.
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That's what I call it in my blueprint- Ooh so that it's, it's locked in the memory.
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Activate and anchor.
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I love that.
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I'm gonna...
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Can I steal that from you? You can.
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It's a- I'm gonna use it.
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Well, I mean, it's copywritten in my workbook here, so you can't steal it, but you can- Oh, shoot use it all over town.
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All right.
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Fair enough.
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Fair enough.
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But that goes back to, Jenny, what I was talking about earlier in our conversation about the interruption or the disruption.
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It was different.
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It was a very small interruption or disruption, and, you know, had it gone sideways or had it not worked out as I...
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Well, I didn't even hope it worked out anyways.
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If it had just not landed properly, let's say that Um, it was not a big deal because it wasn't a huge interruption.
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It was just a small distur- disruption, but ended up having tremendous, uh, ROI, if you wanna call it ROI or, or ended up having a tremendous backend experience to it.
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Absolutely.
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I want to shift gears for a second.
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So we met on LinkedIn.
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Yeah.
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And I...
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One of my favorite things is posting provocative posts on LinkedIn that get people to respond to me, and I asked you how you prove event success.
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And you kinda stopped, "Hold on."
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And that made you come to my profile and figure out, who is this girl sitting on this pink couch that's, you know- Oh, yeah.
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Yeah saying these little things.
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Who's, who's this fashionista on a pink couch? I need to talk to her.
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J- again, jump.
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L- let's...
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Ooh, curiosity.
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Uh, let's, let's get curious and jump.
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Let's figure it out.
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Absolutely.
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So before that moment, had you truly ever thought of, how do I prove event success? Had you ever really had a framework or a process, or how did you do that? You know, that's an interesting topic, and a little self plug for myself, I'm speaking on this, uh, next week in New York.
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What are you doing next Wednesday? Come to New York.
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I'm on a panel.
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Um, but we're talking about how to build an event with, you know, to show ROI, and I think it's a really hot topic right now.
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I know it's a hot topic right now.
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You know, previously, you and I have been doing this for a very long time.
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Previous proof of concept for an event or previous proof of ROI in an event was how many people showed up.
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You, you said, you said 500, did 500 show, you know? And that was, that was kinda it for the long time, right? Uh, but now You know, especially at the corporate level, you're talking, you know, you know, what was generated for pipeline? What, what, what MQLs were turned to SQLs? Marketing qualified lead, did they turn to sales qualified lead, SQL? MQL to SQL.
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That's a big one right now.
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Um, and it- and that's a It's a little bit of a beast because then as event production or experiential production folks, again, we were u- like, "All right, we'll build it.
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We'll set it up.
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We'll get the invites out, and we'll tell you how many people showed up."
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If we hit our goal, we were good.
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Now, it's like, okay, uh, what was the level of sales generated? What was the level of interaction that was generated because we have technology to measure it.
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How many people went to the breakout session? Well, there was You know, we had seating for 75, but 25 showed up.
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Ooh, that's data.
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That's input.
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That's an ROI metric.
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Um, and I think the biggest thing is now we are, we are definitely evolving as experiential producers because we have to have The ability to put on the hat to talk at the corporate le- or the C level, excuse me, to say, "Based on the event, you know, X amount of dollars was generated in revenue," and that's the big one.
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And putting on that hat, I think, is challenging for a lot of us because that means, you know, having the ability to talk about an MQL to an SQL, which again is marketing qualified lead to sales qualified lead.
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Did that lead turn into dollars? And that, m- in my opinion or my thinking, Jenny, currently is, ooh, now we're almost, we're almost becoming salespeople because we have to go to the sales team post-event and say, "Hey, here's all your leads."
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Or, or you tell me.
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You scan the leads.
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You got how many leads? Okay.
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What is the process for follow-up? Am I responsible for giving you a, a, you know, a platform for follow-up, or is that your sales manager? Who, who owns that? And I think there's gonna have to be a lot of conversation going forward about that, and that's where I think we have the opportunity to learn as experiential produ- producers and, and event producers to, to have a seat at that table.
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Absolutely.
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One of the things I've found over the last year, as I've been doing research, I've talked to hundreds of planners, and one of the, the things is there's that you come into the industry, you're an event planner, you're in charge of logistics.
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At what moment did everyone decide that you're now in charge of ROI and what the sales team is doing? And the sad thing is that if you don't know what the sales team is doing, if you don't know how to prove success, you're not gonna make six figures in this industry.
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You're not going to move up into a Jack Morton, a Wasserman, or, you know, into one of these experiential roles or work with AWS or any of that.
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And so one of my...
334
00:26:29,46.561 --> 00:26:43,96.556
I will, you know, this is my thing that I'm just so passionate about and that I am trying to spend the rest of my life doing, and that is teaching people how you go from that logistics order taking role into I'm a strategist.
335
00:26:43,166.564 --> 00:26:43,186.564
Yeah.
336
00:26:43,196.563 --> 00:26:44,596.553
I earned a seat at this table.
337
00:26:44,856.567 --> 00:26:48,616.554
I can show you how an event is successful every single time.
338
00:26:48,626.556 --> 00:26:48,646.556
Yeah.
339
00:26:48,866.561 --> 00:26:58,996.56
And so that's something I am so passionate about because so many people are stuck at the bottom, and they don't understand, and it's not that they're sitting in the back smoking a cigarette saying, "Well, that's not my job."
340
00:26:59,326.553 --> 00:27:00,656.556
It- they're not doing that.
341
00:27:00,676.559 --> 00:27:03,286.555
They just- Yeah no one's taught them because there's no framework.
342
00:27:03,286.559 --> 00:27:05,756.556
There's no- No there's no process.
343
00:27:05,796.554 --> 00:27:07,436.554
But there is now because I built one.
344
00:27:07,446.563 --> 00:27:08,336.564
So we're all good.
345
00:27:09,522.563 --> 00:27:14,812.563
We're all covered in that area- so we can all now prove success and all be strategists if we want to.
346
00:27:14,812.563 --> 00:27:23,152.562
But it, truly the history of event production and going from that level to, you know, we're just logistically putting this together.
347
00:27:23,412.562 --> 00:27:27,692.562
Ooh, like for me, myself, I got to that next level through creativity.
348
00:27:27,702.562 --> 00:27:27,722.562
Yeah.
349
00:27:27,952.562 --> 00:27:36,312.562
I got there because I threw out the most creative ideas in the room, and so everyone saw, "Oh, she's not just an, an order taker, she has ideas.
350
00:27:36,322.563 --> 00:27:37,282.562
What, whoa- Yeah what's that all about?" And then once I...
351
00:27:37,282.562 --> 00:27:45,672.562
I actually have an MBA in marketing, and I don't think you need to go spend a ton of money and earn an MBA to move up in this industry.
352
00:27:45,812.561 --> 00:28:05,312.561
I feel like all you need to do is be boots on the ground logistics, learn what it feels like to plan an event, to have things go wrong, to have, to, to have to pivot last minute, to have to turn- Yeah you know, a seated thing into a cocktail standing thing because your client came in and said, "Wait, I changed my mind."
353
00:28:05,322.563 --> 00:28:17,182.558
You know- Yeah you have to go through all of the, the boot camp- Yeah of event planning, and then, you know, to earn your seat at the table, you need to learn the language to be able to speak in ROI terms and C-suite terms.
354
00:28:17,692.562 --> 00:28:19,392.564
100%, and I agree with you.
355
00:28:19,392.564 --> 00:28:22,52.565
Uh, I agree with you all the way.
356
00:28:22,52.565 --> 00:28:24,842.565
I have a, a master's degree in organizational leadership.
357
00:28:25,792.561 --> 00:28:32,472.563
Does it help? 100%, but all the learning came from to your p- boots on the ground.
358
00:28:33,112.56 --> 00:28:37,82.558
Making a mistake and being like, "Ooh, that was a mistake.
359
00:28:37,192.562 --> 00:28:38,182.562
Lesson learned."
360
00:28:38,532.558 --> 00:28:40,262.561
Fix it quick, and then move on.
361
00:28:40,452.564 --> 00:28:42,882.562
It's, you've gotta get in, you've gotta get in the mix.
362
00:28:42,882.565 --> 00:28:53,82.56
You've gotta, in the spirit of, of Gary Vee, you know, you've gotta fuck it up a couple times, fix it- Mm do it again, fix it again, and then just keep screwing it up and fixing it.
363
00:28:53,232.563 --> 00:28:57,802.563
And that's where the real empowerment comes from.
364
00:28:57,912.563 --> 00:28:59,812.564
That's where the real knowledge comes from.
365
00:29:01,608.563 --> 00:29:02,348.563
Absolutely.
366
00:29:02,898.563 --> 00:29:08,668.563
And I love that you, you popped out Gary Vee because he- Yeah you know, so inspirational.
367
00:29:08,668.563 --> 00:29:09,968.563
He's on my feed every day.
368
00:29:10,378.563 --> 00:29:10,798.563
Oh, yeah.
369
00:29:11,618.563 --> 00:29:35,488.561
I would love to talk about one of your specific events that you designed, and you, you already shared the emotional experience of the swag, but do you have another one that you actually designed an emotional experience on purpose and then proved the results at the end? Do you have any e- examples of that? Yeah.
370
00:29:35,518.562 --> 00:29:40,208.563
I'm, I'm gonna stay with my most recent, um, ad- adventures at AWS.
371
00:29:40,358.562 --> 00:29:44,918.563
Um, obviously AWS is, is a monster of a, of, of a company.
372
00:29:44,968.562 --> 00:29:49,448.561
Uh, I, I think they're, I don't know, top...
373
00:29:49,498.561 --> 00:29:53,508.56
I, I know- I don't know the s- statistics on it, but top one or two companies out there now.
374
00:29:53,528.56 --> 00:29:55,548.561
I don't know, so don't quote me on any of that.
375
00:29:55,548.561 --> 00:30:02,168.561
But certainly those events, um, you know, Global Partner Summit was, was definitely one.
376
00:30:02,658.561 --> 00:30:08,208.565
That was inviting all the partners of AWS to one convention, one conference.
377
00:30:08,278.56 --> 00:30:15,258.559
Um, it was in Seattle, and that was heavily involved, you know, proving ROI.
378
00:30:15,688.564 --> 00:30:39,738.559
To our point, it wasn't just, "Hey, we need 1,500 partners to attend this conference," it was, "Who are the right people that need to be there? You know, what level of a partner are they? What level of revenue are they generating?" Um, capturing those individuals' information, uh, once they arrive on site, kind of through technology, fi- following them around the convention, conference for three days.
379
00:30:40,398.563 --> 00:30:45,828.563
Um, and then capturing all that information, getting it to the sales team as quickly as possible for follow-up.
380
00:30:46,548.564 --> 00:31:23,312.563
And, you know, there was conversations involved, Jenny, from my sp- perspective on, you know, what is the follow-up? What is, what is the plan for follow-up? Is that, is that, is that on me for ensuring the sales team follows up properly? Or the, the, you know, the partner development, PDMs, partner development marketers, are they following up in a proper way? Giving them some, some structure on you know, the purpose of the event and why they came, and then having, giving them some information for the follow-up so they could do it properly and, and generate the revenue.
381
00:31:25,930.563 --> 00:31:37,860.562
That's actually really, really interesting because a lot of planners, including myself in the past, decide to measure results after the fact.
382
00:31:38,520.563 --> 00:31:38,760.563
Yeah.
383
00:31:38,760.563 --> 00:31:46,370.562
And what you just stated was one of the most important things is you start before you even start planning.
384
00:31:46,380.562 --> 00:31:46,400.562
Yeah.
385
00:31:46,410.563 --> 00:31:49,90.562
And you ask that question, who do we want in the room? Yeah.
386
00:31:49,460.562 --> 00:31:52,920.562
Because I, I'll tell you about an event that I did year after year.
387
00:31:52,920.563 --> 00:31:58,580.561
I did it three years in a row, and first year we had about 350 registrants.
388
00:31:58,580.561 --> 00:32:01,230.563
The next year was 500, the next year was 750.
389
00:32:01,280.561 --> 00:32:03,510.563
And everyone thought, "Wow, this is the..."
390
00:32:03,560.56 --> 00:32:04,820.564
I mean, it was a beautiful event.
391
00:32:04,830.561 --> 00:32:04,850.561
Yeah.
392
00:32:05,80.561 --> 00:32:11,640.563
Obviously, you know, we grew in attendance, but in my world, attendance is a head count.
393
00:32:11,710.562 --> 00:32:12,590.563
It doesn't matter.
394
00:32:12,980.562 --> 00:32:13,190.562
Yeah.
395
00:32:13,190.562 --> 00:32:27,790.561
Because it matters, number one, who is that? Is that actually your client, or are you just providing them, you know, a good time? And then after these events, which everyone was telling me they're, these are so successful, I couldn't figure out how.
396
00:32:27,930.563 --> 00:32:31,30.56
I had no idea how to say- Hmm well, it was successful because of this.
397
00:32:31,50.558 --> 00:32:33,300.561
Because to me a head count is not success.
398
00:32:33,340.559 --> 00:32:35,110.558
That's output of something.
399
00:32:35,620.558 --> 00:32:42,880.558
And so I actually had sponsors after every single year say, "We didn't get anything out of it.
400
00:32:42,890.562 --> 00:32:44,470.56
We're not coming back next year."
401
00:32:44,750.563 --> 00:32:48,510.564
So I'm sorry, but that is an unsuccessful event to me.
402
00:32:48,510.564 --> 00:32:48,645.5625
Yeah.
403
00:32:48,645.5625 --> 00:32:49,20.561
If I...
404
00:32:49,60.56 --> 00:32:50,560.562
That, that is not success.
405
00:32:51,30.561 --> 00:33:04,770.563
And so after that point, I looked back and I thought, you know, before the event, I am going to clearly communicate what success looks like from the beginning, and get everybody involved.
406
00:33:04,780.561 --> 00:33:09,770.564
Whether it's a sponsor, you know, whether it's any of the stakeholders, that's what's gonna happen.
407
00:33:09,780.561 --> 00:33:09,800.561
Yeah.
408
00:33:10,170.561 --> 00:33:17,600.558
And so I actually bombed event after event when, you know, people are, you know, guests are saying it's phenomenal.
409
00:33:17,900.564 --> 00:33:25,770.557
But when sponsors are giving me, you know, 50 grand in food and, you know, they need to be getting...
410
00:33:25,800.558 --> 00:33:29,150.561
Like, they're important, not the guests having a good time.
411
00:33:29,410.559 --> 00:33:36,970.564
So clearly explaining expectations from the beginning I think is key, and then, like you said, planning beforehand.
412
00:33:36,980.566 --> 00:33:37,0.566
Yeah.
413
00:33:37,20.559 --> 00:33:38,780.556
The planning before the planning is what I call it.
414
00:33:39,250.555 --> 00:33:39,540.555
Yeah.
415
00:33:39,540.555 --> 00:33:43,210.564
And now that you frame it that way, Jenny, or now that you share your story...
416
00:33:43,360.556 --> 00:33:45,90.567
And by the way, I've been there, done that too.
417
00:33:45,100.561 --> 00:33:46,340.56
Bombed, you know, sponsors.
418
00:33:46,340.567 --> 00:33:47,310.558
Like, "Hey, this was awful.
419
00:33:47,310.558 --> 00:33:47,980.559
We're not coming back."
420
00:33:48,100.561 --> 00:33:48,910.556
Been there, done that.
421
00:33:48,960.562 --> 00:33:50,60.562
Not a great conversation.
422
00:33:50,690.558 --> 00:34:05,514.563
Um, but the thought you gener- you helped me generate was we did a lot of- Pre-work before we started logistics with the sales team to say, "Hey, here's the criteria for who gets in," because it was an invite-only event.
423
00:34:05,564.563 --> 00:34:07,524.562
"Here's the criteria for who gets invited.
424
00:34:08,34.562 --> 00:34:10,434.562
If they don't fit, we cannot invite them."
425
00:34:10,504.563 --> 00:34:18,314.563
You know, because it had impact on budget, we had impact on, um, you know, fire marshal, fire marshal regulations with the amount of people in the building.
426
00:34:18,374.563 --> 00:34:22,614.562
I'm like-- I said, I'm like, "Look it, we can't go over this.
427
00:34:22,614.563 --> 00:34:28,4.562
We've gotta really stick to the, the perfect attendee, and that's it."
428
00:34:29,54.562 --> 00:34:37,174.561
And so later, you know, of course two weeks out from the event, my Slack and my email was a pinball...
429
00:34:37,204.561 --> 00:34:38,614.562
It was a slot machine.
430
00:34:39,444.563 --> 00:34:40,694.561
Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.
431
00:34:40,704.561 --> 00:34:41,924.562
"Hey, so and so needs to be there.
432
00:34:41,924.563 --> 00:34:43,544.563
Hey, this customer really needs to be there.
433
00:34:43,544.563 --> 00:34:44,994.561
Hey, I need this person there.
434
00:34:44,994.562 --> 00:34:49,374.562
They do X amount of dollars of revenue with us, and we need to ha- we cannot not invite them."
435
00:34:50,364.561 --> 00:34:54,874.561
And so I became the, I became the bouncer and the gatekeeper of like, "Nope, sorry, can't do it.
436
00:34:55,194.563 --> 00:34:59,634.561
You know, we set this standard, we set this guideline six months ago.
437
00:34:59,644.56 --> 00:35:00,904.561
We're two weeks out.
438
00:35:01,664.561 --> 00:35:04,194.562
I can't, I can't...
439
00:35:04,214.564 --> 00:35:04,974.563
we can't allow it.
440
00:35:04,974.563 --> 00:35:05,484.561
I'm sorry."
441
00:35:05,534.563 --> 00:35:11,784.56
And that was, oof, that was challenging to have those conversations.
442
00:35:11,824.564 --> 00:35:15,474.56
And, uh, several of them did get heated.
443
00:35:15,844.561 --> 00:35:17,834.561
Not gonna lie, several of them did get heated.
444
00:35:17,844.561 --> 00:35:28,634.562
And we had to stick to our guns, you know, because again, wasn't the target guest, I try not to say attendee anymore, I try to say guest, wasn't the target guest.
445
00:35:29,294.558 --> 00:35:31,304.559
It's having an impact on F&B budget.
446
00:35:31,334.559 --> 00:35:34,154.562
It's having an impact on the amount of people we can have in the room.
447
00:35:34,584.559 --> 00:35:42,714.561
It's having a, uh, an impact on our floor plan because, you know, we're, we're anticipating 1500, but it's looking like two grand.
448
00:35:43,534.563 --> 00:35:46,404.561
Now we've gotta go back to the floor plan and, and adjust seating.
449
00:35:46,424.563 --> 00:35:49,394.557
We've gotta rearrange some floor plans to add seating.
450
00:35:49,394.564 --> 00:36:12,60.562
So it was, it was heated at several times, like I said That's a really interesting concept that kind of ties into when you're in that weird space between logistics coordinator and actually the, the person that can make the call and make the decisions.
451
00:36:12,60.563 --> 00:36:15,730.563
And I know you have a lot of conversation with C-suites, and so do I, but I...
452
00:36:16,60.563 --> 00:36:18,30.562
And I was a C-suite at one point.
453
00:36:18,340.563 --> 00:36:28,110.561
But prior to that, I didn't feel confident enough to stake my claim and say, "No, we're not doing that.
454
00:36:28,140.563 --> 00:36:30,880.561
We- this is not aligned with the event.
455
00:36:31,140.561 --> 00:36:37,820.561
We're not putting a mechanical bull in the corner because it has nothing to do..."
456
00:36:37,820.561 --> 00:36:38,20.561
And yes, that's a true story.
457
00:36:38,20.561 --> 00:36:39,900.56
We're not doing that because it's not aligned with it.
458
00:36:39,910.561 --> 00:36:43,130.561
And so did a mechanical bull show up? Yes.
459
00:36:43,420.563 --> 00:36:43,810.563
Oh, yeah.
460
00:36:44,380.562 --> 00:36:45,450.562
Because I didn't have the strength to say it.
461
00:36:45,500.561 --> 00:36:58,590.56
And so that's another thing that I teach, is that you have to, you have to find your voice, and by calling yourself an experiential strategist, something that you do is you, you show up and you say, "I'm not just your order taker here."
462
00:36:58,600.56 --> 00:36:58,630.56
Yep.
463
00:36:58,740.563 --> 00:37:00,630.561
"You've hired me as an expert."
464
00:37:00,860.558 --> 00:37:00,890.558
Yep.
465
00:37:01,40.558 --> 00:37:10,70.562
"And what I need to do is tell you that, no, that person doesn't belong in the room because it's 225 a head, and they're doing nothing to move the business needle.
466
00:37:10,360.558 --> 00:37:11,720.56
So I'm sorry."
467
00:37:11,730.561 --> 00:37:20,370.559
And so how did you kind of gain your voice and your confidence so that you could have these conversations? I stinking love this question.
468
00:37:20,730.561 --> 00:37:30,70.561
And honestly, it has nothing to do with event production, it has nothing to do with experiential production, uh, nothing with experiential activations.
469
00:37:31,620.56 --> 00:37:40,30.56
Um, I, I found my voice because I did a lot of self work, and I know we've talked about this too.
470
00:37:40,130.562 --> 00:37:46,360.561
I, again, maybe TMI, but I, I've gone to therapy, I've had a coach, I've had a life coach.
471
00:37:46,840.561 --> 00:37:53,990.563
I've done a lot of self-reflection, um, especially during COVID, 'cause there was nothing else to do, right? We weren't working, unfortunately.
472
00:37:53,990.563 --> 00:38:01,670.558
But during COVID, if there was a book on finding yourself, self-help, um, I picked it up and I read it.
473
00:38:01,720.559 --> 00:38:08,800.559
I just ingested, and I ingested, uh, probably way over the, way more than I should have, but I was fascinated with it.
474
00:38:09,370.553 --> 00:38:24,260.553
And so all that to say, I just learned about who I was, and that gave me the confidence to have a voice backed by years of experience, yes, and years of making mistakes, yes, but I just found out who I was as a person.
475
00:38:24,840.554 --> 00:38:26,950.556
And I also learned...
476
00:38:27,260.552 --> 00:38:32,50.557
I always had this as a talent, I guess you could say, Jenny, but learning to read a room.
477
00:38:33,0.558 --> 00:38:37,830.559
Um, I always-- I didn't know I had it, but I did have it, kind of like creativity.
478
00:38:37,860.558 --> 00:38:43,520.557
I, I knew I had it, or I, I had it, but I didn't know I had it, or I didn't let that side of me out the door.
479
00:38:44,680.565 --> 00:38:46,340.56
Reading the room, I think, is a big one.
480
00:38:46,340.56 --> 00:38:47,820.554
You've gotta know who you're speaking to.
481
00:38:47,820.565 --> 00:38:48,930.554
You gotta know your audience.
482
00:38:49,530.556 --> 00:38:55,358.563
Um- You know, there are some C-level execs that I can say, "That's dumb.
483
00:38:55,448.563 --> 00:38:57,518.563
We're not putting a mechanical bull in the corner.
484
00:38:57,558.563 --> 00:39:00,748.563
What, what are you thinking?" And I know I can get away with it.
485
00:39:01,238.563 --> 00:39:05,158.563
But there are some execs where if I did that, I'd be gone.
486
00:39:05,998.563 --> 00:39:10,408.563
And so just learning how to read the room and who you're speaking to goes a long ways.
487
00:39:10,438.562 --> 00:39:11,928.562
And timing is another one, too.
488
00:39:12,508.562 --> 00:39:19,998.563
You know, if you're in the fire, there's a fire drill, I do use humor in fires because it's a little bit of my ability.
489
00:39:20,258.562 --> 00:39:23,448.563
It's my psychological way to also calm someone else down.
490
00:39:23,988.561 --> 00:39:28,188.562
'Cause if I'm a mess, they're gonna be a mess, vice versa.
491
00:39:28,298.563 --> 00:39:31,58.563
So humor goes a long way with calming the situation down.
492
00:39:31,58.563 --> 00:39:35,858.564
But finding timing for that humor with a C-level exec is also pretty critical.
493
00:39:35,858.564 --> 00:39:37,138.561
Again, knowing your audience.
494
00:39:37,798.563 --> 00:39:42,868.563
Um, a- and again, it's just figuring out who you are as a person.
495
00:39:42,958.563 --> 00:39:49,298.562
Yes, inside of an event space or inside of an experiential space, but also completely outside of that.
496
00:39:49,748.563 --> 00:39:50,668.563
Figure out who you are.
497
00:39:51,68.563 --> 00:39:51,308.563
Get...
498
00:39:51,338.56 --> 00:39:52,108.561
Ask questions.
499
00:39:52,128.561 --> 00:39:52,638.563
Get help.
500
00:39:53,378.561 --> 00:39:55,168.562
Um, go to a therapist.
501
00:39:56,208.559 --> 00:40:03,868.563
Figure it out, you know? So finding your voice, you would recommend if you were telling a planner that wants to get...
502
00:40:03,898.561 --> 00:40:16,968.558
or someone entry-level maybe five years into their career and they want to be an experiential strategist, they want to get into brand activations, corporate events, and work with these big brands, three tips to get them to, you know, their...
503
00:40:16,998.56 --> 00:40:23,548.563
find their confidence, find their voice, what would you recommend? First of all, take your course, the one that you've created.
504
00:40:24,428.56 --> 00:40:26,438.56
Read your book that's coming out in September.
505
00:40:27,818.559 --> 00:40:30,798.565
Um, I, I, I mean, I, I...
506
00:40:30,838.564 --> 00:40:32,528.561
We joke, but that's actually very true.
507
00:40:32,688.562 --> 00:40:34,518.558
Um, three tips.
508
00:40:35,348.558 --> 00:40:35,908.558
Learn.
509
00:40:36,998.56 --> 00:40:39,738.564
Just be, be a student, and never change.
510
00:40:39,768.564 --> 00:40:40,478.563
I'm, I'm...
511
00:40:41,88.564 --> 00:40:42,478.558
I don't have it all figured out.
512
00:40:42,568.559 --> 00:40:45,688.559
I've gotten pretty far, but I'm still gonna continue to learn and be a student.
513
00:40:45,698.564 --> 00:40:46,448.558
Be a student.
514
00:40:47,218.561 --> 00:40:53,498.562
Um, do be- do some self-reflection.
515
00:40:53,508.562 --> 00:41:01,928.562
Who are you? You know, are you, are you putting on a corporate mask just to get a paycheck? And if you are, zero issues with...
516
00:41:01,968.553 --> 00:41:03,698.554
You know, sp- spirit of Gary V.
517
00:41:03,808.565 --> 00:41:05,308.564
Zero, zero issues with that.
518
00:41:05,658.556 --> 00:41:06,408.565
Do your thing.
519
00:41:06,818.559 --> 00:41:09,108.562
If that, if that's what you wanna do, do it.
520
00:41:09,658.556 --> 00:41:18,568.556
Um, or are you putting on this corporate mask or this corporate armor when in reality you're someone totally different? Well, explore that a little bit.
521
00:41:18,698.564 --> 00:41:23,908.564
You don't have to, you don't have to be like me and jump in all the way and do it, but just give it some exploratio- ex- exploration.
522
00:41:23,928.56 --> 00:41:26,838.553
Give it some room to breathe.
523
00:41:27,708.559 --> 00:41:31,888.561
Um, and, and we've talked about this a couple times now.
524
00:41:32,98.558 --> 00:41:35,918.563
Make mistakes Make mistakes.
525
00:41:36,218.563 --> 00:41:39,188.563
Um, you've gotta, you know, you're, we're not saving lives.
526
00:41:39,258.563 --> 00:41:46,298.563
And I, and I have a joke, sometimes in the heat of a moment or the heat of a fire drill, I'm like, "Look it, we're not saving lives here.
527
00:41:46,808.563 --> 00:41:48,78.562
That's actually way easier."
528
00:41:48,368.562 --> 00:41:53,498.563
And they look at me and they say, "What do you mean?" I say, "Well, because I did it in the Coast Guard, and it's not this difficult.
529
00:41:53,508.563 --> 00:41:56,718.562
Why are we making this so difficult? Let's find a solution.
530
00:41:56,788.563 --> 00:42:01,918.563
Everybody ca- find calm or everybody be calm, and there's a solution there.
531
00:42:01,918.563 --> 00:42:05,542.563
We just don't see it yet It's so funny that you say that.
532
00:42:05,552.563 --> 00:42:14,402.563
I was doing research on, I think it was a year ago, on the most stressful careers, and we're fifth Yeah Our- ours is fifth.
533
00:42:15,242.563 --> 00:42:18,92.563
Not, we're not ER doctors saving lives.
534
00:42:18,102.562 --> 00:42:18,122.562
No.
535
00:42:18,132.563 --> 00:42:19,182.563
You know, someone, you know.
536
00:42:19,222.562 --> 00:42:20,462.562
But it feels like it.
537
00:42:20,462.563 --> 00:42:22,222.562
It can feel like it- Yeah in the time.
538
00:42:22,652.562 --> 00:42:28,332.563
And I don't think we give enough credit for people that are living on the floor.
539
00:42:28,332.563 --> 00:42:39,532.561
You know, the people that are running the trade show booths, the field marketing people, the, even the corporate event planner that's, you know, the 550 person holiday party that was just tossed over to them.
540
00:42:39,802.561 --> 00:42:47,422.561
You know, those people, that on-site learning is something that the sales team is never gonna know.
541
00:42:47,502.562 --> 00:42:48,542.563
They, they don't know.
542
00:42:48,542.563 --> 00:42:51,942.562
The, the marketing team that's back in the office, they don't know that.
543
00:42:52,392.562 --> 00:42:52,652.562
Yeah.
544
00:42:52,652.562 --> 00:42:59,982.56
And so that is such a gift to be on-site, knowing what's happening, feeling that energy.
545
00:42:59,992.56 --> 00:43:00,22.56
Yep.
546
00:43:00,32.561 --> 00:43:02,932.561
Seeing that, oh, that lighting made them feel that way.
547
00:43:02,972.563 --> 00:43:04,762.56
Oh, this, this works, that works.
548
00:43:05,222.563 --> 00:43:14,32.559
Those people need a seat at the table where they're deciding budgets, where they're making, you know, the decisions of whether or not to even have that event versus this event.
549
00:43:14,282.561 --> 00:43:20,172.561
Because when you're in that moment, there's something that's not, it's not a number.
550
00:43:20,222.563 --> 00:43:23,542.564
It's not something that can be represented like that.
551
00:43:23,652.564 --> 00:43:29,232.565
But those people should have a say at the table as to how much we spend next year.
552
00:43:29,522.559 --> 00:43:29,872.559
Oh, yeah.
553
00:43:30,312.56 --> 00:43:33,162.564
As to, you know, whether that event worked, whether it didn't work.
554
00:43:33,192.565 --> 00:43:44,882.561
Maybe they don't have the framework or the knowledge yet to say why it worked, but to have a seat at the table to contribute because they're there, I am such a, such a proponent of getting these people at the table.
555
00:43:45,302.558 --> 00:43:45,862.558
100%.
556
00:43:45,912.558 --> 00:43:46,842.564
I couldn't agree more.
557
00:43:46,922.56 --> 00:43:49,362.558
And a couple, that gave me a couple thoughts, Jenny.
558
00:43:49,362.563 --> 00:43:57,712.561
One was, the first one was, you know, you talk about being on-site and, and having com- having passion or co- having compassion for the people on-site.
559
00:43:58,882.559 --> 00:44:02,62.559
This was not something I did purposely, it's just naturally who I am.
560
00:44:02,112.563 --> 00:44:10,222.557
But my first go-to on-site, and I love being on-site, love being on-site, I love seeing all this work come together and the build-out.
561
00:44:11,52.558 --> 00:44:13,202.558
I go to the crew, I go to the production crew.
562
00:44:14,92.566 --> 00:44:25,112.559
They're, they're my best friends because I, they're genuinely good people, they're smart, they're talented, but they're also really the fulcrum point of the entire event.
563
00:44:25,172.553 --> 00:44:36,162.567
Because if they're in the middle of building out a stage, and I don't know, maybe they're not motivated or fired up that day, guess what? Your whole event starts sliding.
564
00:44:36,912.558 --> 00:44:44,42.565
So I immediately go to the crew, "You guys need coffee? What are you doing today? Oh, what's your name? Where are you from? Awesome job.
565
00:44:44,42.565 --> 00:44:45,142.561
You guys are doing great."
566
00:44:45,662.558 --> 00:44:51,484.563
And, and that resonates with them so much because I don't think a lot of people do that.
567
00:44:51,904.563 --> 00:44:58,664.563
They're just the, you know, they're just the crew running around in a black T-shirt, black pants, setting up the stage, and no one cares about them.
568
00:44:59,114.563 --> 00:45:00,434.563
But you go straight...
569
00:45:00,724.562 --> 00:45:05,934.563
Here's a learning c- here's f- here's a learning opportunity for our u- um, early-in-your-career folks.
570
00:45:06,294.562 --> 00:45:06,924.563
Go to the crew.
571
00:45:07,714.562 --> 00:45:08,704.563
Go to the crew.
572
00:45:08,844.563 --> 00:45:11,234.563
Make them your best friends, 100%.
573
00:45:11,234.563 --> 00:45:13,384.562
They're there for 12, 16 hours sometimes.
574
00:45:13,634.562 --> 00:45:16,74.562
Make sure that there's a pot of coffee, water.
575
00:45:16,124.562 --> 00:45:18,954.563
Do they have their breakfast, lunch, and dinner? Absolutely.
576
00:45:19,304.562 --> 00:45:19,714.562
Yeah.
577
00:45:19,724.562 --> 00:45:19,754.562
Yes.
578
00:45:19,994.561 --> 00:45:25,694.563
And it's so funny that, you know, the bigger the event, the more the vendors, the more people that are behind you.
579
00:45:25,724.561 --> 00:45:38,904.561
And we don't throw events so that we can be like, "Oh, we're the star of the show," you know? We're not that kind of people, but we are only one of just hundreds if not- Yep thousands sometimes an event that are just pulling this together.
580
00:45:38,934.563 --> 00:45:40,724.56
We're just the one, we're the face of it.
581
00:45:41,234.563 --> 00:45:44,384.56
And so taking care of these people, they definitely...
582
00:45:44,724.561 --> 00:45:52,114.562
Um, I have a lot of vendors that are, you know, so grateful to work with me and wanna work with me again because I make sure to take care of them.
583
00:45:52,124.562 --> 00:45:52,154.562
Yep.
584
00:45:52,344.563 --> 00:45:55,74.561
And that is so key and such a great point to bring up.
585
00:45:55,474.561 --> 00:45:56,734.559
Call it hospitality.
586
00:45:56,734.563 --> 00:45:57,764.559
Call it leadership.
587
00:45:57,824.559 --> 00:46:01,244.562
Call it, even if you w- call it being an event producer.
588
00:46:01,294.56 --> 00:46:06,94.561
It's you have to, you have to take care of your people, 1000%.
589
00:46:06,324.559 --> 00:46:12,554.564
Um, you know, if humor's not your thing, like, I have to be careful because I, I have a loud laugh.
590
00:46:12,554.564 --> 00:46:14,734.558
And when I'm on site, I laugh all day long.
591
00:46:15,744.565 --> 00:46:22,844.56
I, and so I use humor to, as a part, form of my leadership and taking care of people and my, my version of hospitality.
592
00:46:23,234.563 --> 00:46:25,924.564
But if it's not, if you don't have that, totally fine.
593
00:46:26,414.563 --> 00:46:27,964.562
You know, just listen.
594
00:46:28,394.559 --> 00:46:34,824.564
If someone says, if you hear someone say, "Oh, I really like a Hershey chocolate bar," go get him a H- go get him a Hershey chocolate bar.
595
00:46:34,824.564 --> 00:46:35,624.559
Just be like, "Here.
596
00:46:35,904.561 --> 00:46:37,634.563
Thanks for doing a great job," and then walk away.
597
00:46:38,204.564 --> 00:46:40,914.563
And you'll have so many raving fans.
598
00:46:41,624.562 --> 00:46:43,774.564
Oh, it's the, it's the secret sauce.
599
00:46:44,884.557 --> 00:46:46,664.559
And you were around during COVID.
600
00:46:46,664.559 --> 00:46:46,694.562
Mm-hmm.
601
00:46:46,694.562 --> 00:46:56,934.567
And so you went through the trauma and, that we all did, of post-COVID people that knew how to do e- events.
602
00:46:56,984.555 --> 00:47:03,854.554
And then, you know, 2020 when we were rebuilding, in 2021, it, it was basically all new people.
603
00:47:03,864.56 --> 00:47:07,534.56
You know- Mm-hmm at that level, people couldn't sustain a year and a half without work.
604
00:47:07,834.561 --> 00:47:09,984.563
And so we have a new industry now.
605
00:47:09,994.565 --> 00:47:10,24.565
Yep.
606
00:47:10,34.558 --> 00:47:17,84.565
And so it's definitely, um, you know, the pre-COVID, post-COVID production teams and the, you know, the staff.
607
00:47:17,444.562 --> 00:47:20,674.558
It's, it's a whole, every, it's everyone's a new face.
608
00:47:21,24.564 --> 00:47:23,244.558
Yep, 100%.
609
00:47:23,244.558 --> 00:47:24,444.554
And COVID was hard.
610
00:47:24,474.561 --> 00:47:28,654.566
You know, you talk about not being able to go a year, a year and a half, even two years without income.
611
00:47:29,114.56 --> 00:47:31,184.567
I ended up, here's, here's a funny story.
612
00:47:31,184.567 --> 00:47:33,674.562
Here's a Jumper curiosity story.
613
00:47:33,724.561 --> 00:47:37,674.563
I pivoted to real estate because I was living in Portland, Oregon.
614
00:47:37,804.562 --> 00:47:41,264.562
Real estate was still screaming hot, screaming hot.
615
00:47:41,334.561 --> 00:47:45,42.563
I'm like, "Eh- I don't have many other choices.
616
00:47:45,922.563 --> 00:47:46,942.563
Okay, here we go.
617
00:47:46,972.563 --> 00:47:52,382.563
So I studied my little butt off, passed the real estate exam, and off I went, but I hated it.
618
00:47:52,442.563 --> 00:47:53,632.563
I absolutely hated it.
619
00:47:53,722.563 --> 00:47:55,692.562
It was ju- I just did not like it.
620
00:47:55,692.562 --> 00:47:56,442.563
It was not for me.
621
00:47:57,132.563 --> 00:47:59,902.563
Um, but then coming back into...
622
00:48:00,272.562 --> 00:48:02,232.562
I decided one day, I'm like, "This isn't for me.
623
00:48:02,232.563 --> 00:48:03,112.562
I gotta make a change."
624
00:48:04,272.562 --> 00:48:09,772.562
So, you know, in, in s- in the spirit of humor, I said to my therapist, I said, "Hey, I think I need to go back and do events."
625
00:48:09,772.562 --> 00:48:17,56.563
She's like, "Are you sure that's a good idea?" I said, "Probably not, but I'm doing it anyways."
626
00:48:17,66.563 --> 00:48:21,186.563
And I said, "If the upside of it is, you'll probably get more business from me, so I'm going back in."
627
00:48:21,676.563 --> 00:48:22,336.563
And you're right.
628
00:48:23,236.563 --> 00:48:25,616.562
I got back in the industry, and it was completely different.
629
00:48:25,956.563 --> 00:48:26,876.563
Completely different.
630
00:48:27,326.563 --> 00:48:35,166.563
You know, it, the ROI conversation c- came into play a little bit, not as much as it is now, but it certainly started there a little bit.
631
00:48:36,46.562 --> 00:48:36,926.562
Uh, and it was.
632
00:48:36,926.563 --> 00:48:39,66.562
It was fresh faces, different personalities.
633
00:48:39,66.563 --> 00:48:40,536.562
It was different ballgame.
634
00:48:40,896.563 --> 00:48:41,706.563
Different ballgame.
635
00:48:42,776.562 --> 00:48:43,416.562
That's so funny.
636
00:48:43,416.563 --> 00:48:44,636.562
We have so many parallels.
637
00:48:44,636.562 --> 00:48:51,716.562
During COVID, I was running six social media accounts of real estate agents because I needed a side job because I had lost all my corporate clients.
638
00:48:52,56.563 --> 00:48:56,486.563
So I thought, "You know what? I'm going to get my real estate license."
639
00:48:56,726.561 --> 00:48:58,416.561
So I studied for the Colorado- Are you serious? Yes.
640
00:48:58,416.563 --> 00:49:00,236.563
I studied for the Colorado real estate license.
641
00:49:00,316.561 --> 00:49:15,86.563
I got to the end, and so I had these six clients, and my loophole working for my clients is that I hadn't signed the Colorado real estate license agreement that I, when I advertise on Facebook and Instagram, that I have to use the fair market housing.
642
00:49:15,96.563 --> 00:49:19,316.564
You don't have to do that unless you are a s- like, a licensed real estate agent.
643
00:49:19,556.559 --> 00:49:22,106.56
As a marketing person, I didn't have to follow that rule.
644
00:49:22,486.559 --> 00:49:24,456.559
And so I thought, "Well, I'm not gonna do that.
645
00:49:24,456.56 --> 00:49:30,6.564
I'm gonna lose all my clients 'cause I'm gonna have to follow that rule, and I'm gonna lose, you know, all- Yeah of these people."
646
00:49:30,6.564 --> 00:49:36,586.561
And so I ended up not taking the test and passing, doing all of that for one little caveat so I could have that loophole and I could advertise to more people.
647
00:49:37,106.562 --> 00:49:38,196.563
I love it.
648
00:49:38,206.56 --> 00:49:38,986.565
I didn't know that.
649
00:49:39,46.564 --> 00:49:40,226.558
Look at, we're still learning.
650
00:49:40,236.559 --> 00:49:40,876.562
We're still learning.
651
00:49:40,876.562 --> 00:49:41,316.564
I love it.
652
00:49:41,336.558 --> 00:49:42,286.559
That's so funny.
653
00:49:42,356.562 --> 00:49:43,336.561
That's so funny.
654
00:49:43,706.56 --> 00:49:45,366.561
We're innovators, but we're back.
655
00:49:45,366.564 --> 00:49:48,836.564
We're both back to the events industry, and I do...
656
00:49:48,866.564 --> 00:50:01,496.564
I'm going to come back to your, your career at the intersection of creativity and strategy, and I would love for you to just give a little bit of insight to the experiential professionals in the events.
657
00:50:01,646.563 --> 00:50:07,116.563
Who, who do you think's going to be the ones who really thrive in the next 10 years? Yep.
658
00:50:07,196.558 --> 00:50:10,846.558
And that, a- and I really liked that question too when I was doing my homework.
659
00:50:11,406.557 --> 00:50:21,786.564
Um, I'm, I've, again, very humbly so, discovered that I'm, I'm a little bit of a unicorn because I can straddle both sides of the fence.
660
00:50:22,826.563 --> 00:50:47,136.559
And it's, it doesn't always serve me well, I'll be honest with you, because someone, if someone asks me, "Well, what do you do?" Or you know, "What do you wanna do?" I'm like, "I honestly I wanna work, work, work with cool people and do co- cool shit, but does that mean I'm logistics boss, or does that mean I'm the creative boss? What do, what do you want me to do? W- which, which one do you need?" So it, it often goes flat because I can't...
661
00:50:48,466.562 --> 00:50:50,656.565
'Cause, 'cause people want me to choose, and I'm like, "I can do both.
662
00:50:50,696.558 --> 00:50:52,496.552
I can do, do both at a very high level."
663
00:50:53,236.567 --> 00:51:10,428.563
So I think going forward, the people that will be successful are the people that can do both, that can be a little bit of that unicorn, and- um, in the spirit of real estate sell themselves in a manner that shows they can do both.
664
00:51:11,578.563 --> 00:51:22,658.563
And I'll be honest with you, I'm still grappling with how to sell myself in that, in that capacity of, again, I can l- I can do logistics and floor plans and run a show, production schedules.
665
00:51:22,658.563 --> 00:51:39,428.563
I can do all that, but I can also give you super cool freaking creative ideas that are interruptive and disruptive to get your audience, to get your guests' atten- uh, attention I absolutely agree with that.
666
00:51:39,508.563 --> 00:51:40,28.563
I...
667
00:51:40,398.563 --> 00:51:45,88.563
One thing that I would push back on is the logistics, we have AI.
668
00:51:45,88.563 --> 00:51:51,48.562
I think AI is gonna take over- Mm-hmm the run of shows and the, the tedious little stuff.
669
00:51:51,418.562 --> 00:52:10,678.562
And even though AI has, you know, creative abilities, I can say what I want in the chat and it- Yeah creates something cool, I think the creatives and those that can prove event success, I think those are the ones that are really going to show up and get the real, you know, brand jobs and the big jobs.
670
00:52:10,718.563 --> 00:52:12,188.56
And it's, it's not hard.
671
00:52:12,218.563 --> 00:52:14,358.562
Like I said, you don't have to earn an MBA.
672
00:52:14,548.561 --> 00:52:22,748.562
You just have to be able to show that your event that's so creative, over the top, dripping with diamonds and all the things, actually did something.
673
00:52:22,758.563 --> 00:52:22,778.563
Yeah.
674
00:52:22,788.562 --> 00:52:25,248.56
And what was that thing that it did? Yeah.
675
00:52:25,578.563 --> 00:52:27,48.563
I like, I like that pushback.
676
00:52:27,98.564 --> 00:52:27,708.56
I'll take it.
677
00:52:28,198.562 --> 00:52:28,818.562
I'll take it.
678
00:52:29,648.563 --> 00:52:33,788.561
Um, because I think you're, you're, you're correct.
679
00:52:33,958.56 --> 00:52:37,588.563
Um, AI scares me a little bit.
680
00:52:37,628.562 --> 00:52:46,78.563
It probably scares all of us a little bit, but, um, I think it will, faster than we realize, take over the logistics piece, honestly.
681
00:52:46,88.561 --> 00:52:48,38.563
It's, it's fa- it's moving fast.
682
00:52:48,778.564 --> 00:52:53,998.559
Um, I've seen firsthand, especially during my time at AWS, how fast and how far along it really is.
683
00:52:54,768.562 --> 00:52:58,678.558
Um, so yeah, I think the creative folks, and that can prove it.
684
00:52:59,148.559 --> 00:53:00,228.565
I, yeah, I like it.
685
00:53:00,908.561 --> 00:53:02,328.563
I can buy into that 100%.
686
00:53:02,548.561 --> 00:53:11,796.563
And it takes, it takes- It takes leadership and it takes emotional intelligence to deliver what AI is gonna give you.
687
00:53:11,796.563 --> 00:53:17,196.563
How about that? That's also gonna be the key for future success.
688
00:53:18,326.563 --> 00:53:26,556.562
And I would love to have another podcast with you where we just dive into the emotional intelligence and how much is needed in this industry.
689
00:53:27,6.563 --> 00:53:30,576.562
So I will put a pin in that, and we have to set up a date to do that.
690
00:53:30,606.562 --> 00:53:31,166.562
Oh, no, don't put a pin in it.
691
00:53:31,186.562 --> 00:53:32,736.563
Just send me the calendar invite now.
692
00:53:32,736.563 --> 00:53:33,146.562
I'm in.
693
00:53:33,166.563 --> 00:53:33,836.562
Let's go.
694
00:53:34,666.563 --> 00:53:35,356.563
I love it.
695
00:53:35,806.563 --> 00:53:37,146.561
But what-- Let me see.
696
00:53:37,356.562 --> 00:53:46,566.564
So before I let you go, what are you working on right now? What are you excited about? What should people listening know all about Matthew? Give it to me in the hot...
697
00:53:46,576.563 --> 00:53:47,826.56
What is it? The Hot One Show.
698
00:53:47,846.564 --> 00:53:49,966.563
Give it to me in the Hot One Show- The Hot One Show without freestyle.
699
00:53:49,976.561 --> 00:53:55,276.562
Um, in full transparency and honesty, I am not working on anything at the moment.
700
00:53:55,306.563 --> 00:54:00,686.561
I am hell-bent on getting connected with a creative agency out of New York.
701
00:54:00,966.563 --> 00:54:03,246.561
Um, call it Invisible North.
702
00:54:03,416.563 --> 00:54:06,26.56
Jeff Renaud, if you're listening to this, come on, dude.
703
00:54:06,36.562 --> 00:54:06,746.563
Let's go.
704
00:54:07,276.56 --> 00:54:13,296.559
Um, you know, the-- I wanna, I wanna play with the big boys, the Jack Morton's, the MVE's, the Soho Experientials.
705
00:54:13,406.561 --> 00:54:21,446.564
Um, I have the chops to do it 100%, and I'm networking like a madman right now to get the connections.
706
00:54:21,996.565 --> 00:54:25,76.558
Oh, that's another one, you know, for future success, networking.
707
00:54:25,116.56 --> 00:54:30,596.561
It's gonna become a highly valuable skill going forward, highly.
708
00:54:30,726.561 --> 00:54:35,376.561
So just get out there in front of your network, meet people, shake hands, go do the action.
709
00:54:36,46.561 --> 00:54:38,336.559
Um, so I'm on the hunt, Jenny.
710
00:54:38,336.561 --> 00:54:42,646.564
I'm on the hunt for doing big, creative, cool shit with cool people type thing.
711
00:54:42,836.561 --> 00:54:48,486.564
Um, you know, again, the Invisible North, the Jack Morton's, the MVE's, the Soho Experientials, and there's so much more.
712
00:54:48,506.56 --> 00:54:54,936.561
EMC3 is another one that's high on my list of tremendous people that, uh, that organization.
713
00:54:55,26.564 --> 00:55:12,290.563
Uh, Daniel and Lee I've met recently are phenomenal people Well, I think that is absolutely obtainable, especially from your resume and me chatting through the way that you build these events, and all of your events on your resume stacked sounds like you're very much in line with that.
714
00:55:12,580.563 --> 00:55:14,660.563
Tell me about, you're on a panel next week in New York.
715
00:55:14,680.563 --> 00:55:15,430.562
Tell me about that.
716
00:55:15,740.563 --> 00:55:16,310.563
Yes.
717
00:55:16,340.562 --> 00:55:32,190.563
I, in, in true form, uh, to my statement on get out there and network and meet people and be in the mix face to face, I was introduced to Pulse, uh, which is a sort of a networking series that takes place in New York City and Miami.
718
00:55:32,630.562 --> 00:55:35,190.561
Uh, I was invited to attend Pulse last week.
719
00:55:35,200.562 --> 00:55:39,190.562
I went, and I was like a kid in a candy shop.
720
00:55:39,190.564 --> 00:55:40,220.562
It was so fun.
721
00:55:40,250.561 --> 00:55:44,150.562
Just so many smart people and ideas and creative inspiration.
722
00:55:44,640.561 --> 00:55:52,860.562
Um, had a great conversation with Daniel, the owner of EMC3, and Lee, who is, oh, forgive me, I forget his title off the top of my head.
723
00:55:52,860.562 --> 00:55:56,90.562
I think he's North American business development VP.
724
00:55:56,810.563 --> 00:56:06,790.561
Um, based on those conversations and j- again, just getting face to face, they said, "Hey, do you wanna come be on our panel next week?" And I'm like, "Uh, yeah, I do.
725
00:56:07,200.562 --> 00:56:09,720.565
What are we gonna talk about?" ROI.
726
00:56:09,840.561 --> 00:56:12,890.564
Oh, guess what? There's that word again, ROI.
727
00:56:12,920.563 --> 00:56:18,620.562
So we're gonna, we're gonna do a panel, uh, and talk about how to build engaging events that show ROI.
728
00:56:18,630.562 --> 00:56:22,380.559
Um- Where's it gonna be? It is at...
729
00:56:22,780.564 --> 00:56:24,970.565
Ooh, boy, you just handcuffed me right there.
730
00:56:25,430.558 --> 00:56:26,940.563
I can send the information afterwards.
731
00:56:27,280.563 --> 00:56:27,640.563
It's at- That's okay.
732
00:56:28,830.559 --> 00:56:29,160.559
Yeah.
733
00:56:29,270.562 --> 00:56:30,510.56
We'll, I'll get it to you afterwards.
734
00:56:30,550.56 --> 00:56:34,650.564
Yeah, send me the, send me the notes so that I can put it in there if people wanna come and listen to you.
735
00:56:34,650.564 --> 00:56:35,220.562
'Cause I wanna...
736
00:56:35,260.56 --> 00:56:37,60.562
I would come, but I'm not in New York yet.
737
00:56:37,80.559 --> 00:56:37,560.563
I will be there next month.
738
00:56:37,560.563 --> 00:56:40,590.558
I did a, um, actually, I did a LinkedIn post on it this morning.
739
00:56:40,640.565 --> 00:56:44,380.562
Um, so if folks wanna go look at my LinkedIn profile, Matthew Barney.
740
00:56:44,890.557 --> 00:56:51,370.563
Uh, there's a couple of us, but I'm, I think I'm the only one bald dude on, on LinkedIn, so you can find me that way.
741
00:56:52,460.564 --> 00:56:53,260.564
Perfect.
742
00:56:53,570.557 --> 00:56:55,700.559
All right, so I have one more question for you.
743
00:56:55,950.562 --> 00:56:56,270.562
Yes.
744
00:56:56,270.562 --> 00:57:08,190.559
If you could go back to the version of yourself that was just starting out in this industry, and I, somehow I can picture you in my mind leaving the Coast Guard, just hopping a flight, telling Microsoft you're gonna work for them.
745
00:57:08,190.56 --> 00:57:13,70.561
I kinda see you, you just told, is it Jack Morton, that you're basically gonna go work for them? I see that happening.
746
00:57:13,350.564 --> 00:57:13,380.564
Yep.
747
00:57:13,380.564 --> 00:57:13,558.0615
Yep.
748
00:57:13,558.0615 --> 00:57:21,40.554
So what would you tell, what would you tell this person, that version of yourself 15 years ago? Oof.
749
00:57:21,80.559 --> 00:57:22,590.561
That wasn't in the homework, Jenny.
750
00:57:24,310.555 --> 00:57:24,820.559
I'm sorry.
751
00:57:25,40.566 --> 00:57:26,710.558
You're gonna have to learn to think on the spot.
752
00:57:26,710.564 --> 00:57:27,460.554
I know you can.
753
00:57:27,470.559 --> 00:57:27,960.561
I know.
754
00:57:28,10.567 --> 00:57:29,30.559
No, I- I know.
755
00:57:29,30.559 --> 00:57:30,120.554
I, I can do that well.
756
00:57:30,290.566 --> 00:57:38,828.563
Um, you might make me choke up a little bit here and get emotional I would tell myself, you're gonna be a rock star, dude.
757
00:57:38,848.563 --> 00:57:39,748.563
Just keep going.
758
00:57:40,648.563 --> 00:57:41,548.563
Just keep going.
759
00:57:41,878.563 --> 00:57:42,658.563
Just say yes.
760
00:57:42,688.563 --> 00:57:43,408.563
Keep jumping.
761
00:57:43,418.563 --> 00:57:44,478.563
Keep being curious.
762
00:57:45,458.563 --> 00:57:50,798.563
One day you're gonna wake up on a podcast with Jenny and you're gonna be speaking on a panel.
763
00:57:51,778.562 --> 00:57:53,218.562
Just be you.
764
00:57:54,138.563 --> 00:57:57,678.563
Keep going, keep jumping, and s- don't ever lose curiosity.
765
00:57:59,248.562 --> 00:58:00,478.562
That is Matthew Barney.
766
00:58:00,488.563 --> 00:58:01,198.562
Go find him on LinkedIn.
767
00:58:01,878.563 --> 00:58:03,178.561
The link is in the show notes.
768
00:58:03,218.563 --> 00:58:15,808.563
If what Matthew and I talked about today resonated with you at all, if you heard yourself in this conversation and you're ready to build the strategic foundation that backs up the creative instinct you already have, I wanna invite you to watch the Proof Problem Masterclass.
769
00:58:16,48.563 --> 00:58:22,938.561
It's free, it's 30 minutes, and it's the framework that turns everything we talked about today into something you can measure, prove, and get paid for.
770
00:58:23,298.563 --> 00:58:33,540.563
The link is in the show notes, and I will see you in the next episode Thanks for listening to The Experiential Strategist.
771
00:58:34,100.563 --> 00:58:35,770.563
New episodes every week.
772
00:58:36,70.563 --> 00:58:40,220.563
Follow the show and leave a review if this conversation changed how you think
