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Hi everyone and welcome back to our latest episode of the Dumb Monkey Podcast.
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It is a really special podcast here today because not only do we, of course, have the Enterprise Monkey Dumb Monkey Academy founder and entrepreneur extraordinaire Amir Katob, my very good friend and host of the show.
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Welcome, Amir.
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Thank you.
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But sitting next to Amir is his partner in the fabulously named Agents for Humanity.
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It's the fabulously named Steve Berg.
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Welcome.
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Thank you.
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It's great to be here, Davina.
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Yeah.
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Well, guys, this is really exciting because not only have you created Agents for Humanity, and I'm going to ask you to tell us all about that, but the reason that you've created Agents for Humanity, or the reason we get to talk about it in this space at least, is because the UN runs an AI for good challenge.
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They hold challenges all over the world.
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There was heats in Australia recently, and you too won with Agents for Humanity.
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Congratulations.
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Which tells us the state of innovation in Australia.
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If we have won it.
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Yeah, I feel like you're underselling it, and I appreciate that because it's a competition and always, you know, always come in low and then surprise them.
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So that's okay.
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Yes.
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We'll accept that.
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But it is a fabulous concept.
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I haven't had anyone that I've explained it to that hasn't absolutely lit up.
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Um, so I'm gonna give you guys the challenge of responding to me, pitching your idea to you, and you tell me if I'm getting it right.
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That's a good idea.
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Okay.
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So in the world of compute, big enterprise users are now having very large programs or very large buys of tokens that they are using, and they're left with a whole lot of spare compute power.
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Now, as we know, the cost of compute is really high.
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All of us now, when we talk about the cost of tokens, it's got nothing to do with playing battleship on a board game.
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It is all about AI tokens and compute tokens.
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So you guys know that there's a real value around this.
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For enterprise-level users of AI, they can afford to pay the big bucks to do this big compute and they're getting value out of that.
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But we know that AI has the power to make a huge change in the world, to start tackling some of the intractable problems, the difficult things, and one of the best ways to do that is from the ground up, from people who are embedded in their communities that see those problems for what they are and would like to find a solution.
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But of course, if you're a small one-person do-gooder, or you're a small community organization, you don't have money to go throwing on compute power.
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It's hard enough to get the basic resources to make a difference in the place where you are.
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So you guys came up with this fabulous idea that went, what if we could get enterprises to donate their spare compute, and then we can use that compute to create agents and create a community that creates agents to then donate to these do-gooding people around the world?
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And that's what you've done.
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That's amazing, man.
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I think this is our Geneva pitch.
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Yeah, we don't need to re-ask it anymore.
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Cranch it down to two minutes and we're done.
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Yes.
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Yeah, we can do this.
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Yeah.
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Oh, yes.
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It is a fabulous idea.
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Like it genuinely is.
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It's such a simple idea, and that in itself is its genius.
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Um where did the idea come from?
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And what was the first step in making it happen?
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So it came uh from it came in different stages.
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There was like it almost like evolved into something from nothing.
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So it originated from my father, and he was trying to help girls in Aligar, which is a small town in India, uh, trying to help girls educate uh and give them employment, employability.
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But he was an engineer, so he didn't know how to do it.
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So he was trying to work out what to do, how to do.
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And so he reached out to me and my sisters like, how can I run this program?
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And we didn't know as well.
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But I knew how to use AI.
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My sister is a researcher, so we used our research and AI power to actually work out how we can use AI agents to help him.
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And uh, so me and Steve, we have been having these conversations for like last one year about different AI concepts.
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So I was sharing this story with him and how I'm helping my father and some of the other organizations in a bit unorganized way, use AI to help them.
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And Steve looked at it and it's like his eyes lit up.
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He's like, that's an excellent idea.
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What if we could actually evolve into a global platform where we could use the same thing but at a much larger scale?
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And I think we continue to talk from there and we thought about how what if, where where would that compute come from?
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And it's like, what if people could actually contribute their compute to it?
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So it emerged from there and then evolved into the concept which we know now known as the agents for humanity.
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I'd say, you know, Amir and I've had these discussions far-ranging and sprawling discussions about the things we're working on and different ideas, and I think there always been this kernel of um how could we use technology and in a distributed way to solicit contributions and feedback and um the goodwill of people around the world to bring it together to help solve problems.
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And so it kind of evolved over time, and I think uh with the um particular case that Amir had with his father to make it so um such a tangible issue that we could try to solve and bring something to bear on a specific problem that's extremely helpful, and also then to look at how it can more yeah broadly be deployed.
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So and then Steve's mind went crazy.
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He started sending me what WhatsApp messages can we use it to solve this problem, this problem in Kenya.
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My my friend is uh you know running a health program.
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Can we help him?
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Can we do that?
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It just went from there.
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So it started with one simple problem, but then we looked at the power of AI and how it can be actually solved to use so many problems in the world.
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That to me is when you first told me about this, Amir, that was the thing that really sang to me because when we have conversations about AI, it's easy to get lost in the tech sometimes.
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But everything that you guys are describing and the process that you've gone through to get to this point is about people.
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It's about how do we use a technology to help to solve people problems.
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So tell me about the process of building this up into a working model.
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And I know that you've been deploying this model now.
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So can you tell me a little bit about or tell us a little bit about how it's being used now and functionally how does it work?
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If if it's a small, if it's a small you know, one man in India that's sitting there saying, My mission is to um live the dream of my wife and educate young girls, give them an education that they wouldn't otherwise have.
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How do I do that using Agents for Humanity?
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So very simple.
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You go to agentsforhumanity.ai, the platform.
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It's going to go live, hopefully by the time this episode is released.
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You go there, post a problem, simply type it the problem that you have.
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We'll add voice features to it as well, and explain what the problem is.
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That's it.
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It takes a couple of minutes to post a problem.
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And once you have done that, there are a lot of contributed agents in the platform that people are contributing towards.
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They start to work on the problem.
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So they start by taking that problem and dividing into subproblems and saying, okay, what is the actual problem over there?
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Setting up research objective, and then new agents come and do rigorous research on every sub-problem.
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Once the research is completed, then uh an agent comes that creates a proposal around that particular problem.
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So that every problem through sub-problems, multiple proposals are created, and then every proposal gets dissected and argued and debated by agents who critique it, steel man it, verify it.
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And after all of that debate, a council of agents is set.
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So what we mean is that for a particular problem, who would be the right stakeholders who should have a say in it?
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Would it be a school teacher, would it be a local uh groundworker, would it be a mother of a girl?
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All of those voices are represented through different agents who look at a particular proposal and then score that proposal in terms of what they think about it.
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So, and then finally, the the proposal that gets 75 more than 75% of the score or majority vote, that's the one that makes it to synthesis.
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So we might have like 20, 30 proposals for a particular problem, but then the ones that survive make it to the final solution.
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But doesn't stop over there.
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Once the solution is actually generated, an agent comes in and sees what would a person on the ground need to actually implement this solution.
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They might need a budget, they might need cash flow, they might need a funding application, a curriculum, a meal plan, and it lists all of the things that they would need.
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And down the new agents that come to that particular problem, they work on creating those artifacts.
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So the person on the ground who posted this problem, in a few days' time, receive a full implementation pack that they can take, print, use on the ground and implement straight away.
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It's just brilliant thinking.
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It it really is.
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It's such a it's such a complete solution to what is so demonstrably a real need.
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How does it so I'm gonna I'm gonna get all touchy-feely about it then.
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Tell me about what it feels like to realize you've had these conversations, you've seen this need, you've you've done all the work to get this.
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And I, you know, it's been a long time of working on this, a lot of hours and a lot of conversations for you two.
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But how does it feel now to be staring down the barrel of going over to the UN in Switzerland to pitching this idea to the world and knowing that you're going to make one way or the other, ages for humanity is going to be out there?
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What does it mean to you?
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Well, it it it's I think again on the personal level, it's it's very satisfying when we know that there's in the case that uh we're talking about now with Amir's father and girls that are coming out of this program and they have a ability to generate income to contribute into their family.
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And that goes throughout the community.
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We have people that are now looking at expanding the program or looking at um how can they um become a facilitator of the program in their in their community.
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And I think one of the to make one note on what Amir was saying, I think that in terms of how this is differentiated from a LLM or something like that, where if you put something into Chat GPT, it's just it's going to give you an answer because it doesn't want to say it doesn't know the answer.
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Um, and the way this is structured is such that um even in the output that Amir's talking about, there are open questions that come as part of the the deliverable implementation pack.
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And so that the humans in the field deploying these solutions know let's keep an eye on these certain areas, let's generate on the ground intelligence and feed it back into the platform so that in a feedback loop, the the solution can continue to evolve and get better over time.
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And so I think that's another really innovative aspect of the of the program is that it's not just here you go and see you later.
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Um, we've delivered you a nice pack, off you go, and do your good work.
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Thank you for coming.
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And the idea of of the solution also being um open access.
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Yeah.
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So that if you think about there might be Amir's father in India, there might be another um educator or um workforce trainer in America or South America or uh Northern Australia or all.
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But there's a lot of overlap in some of the the problems are different, but there's overlap um that can be drawn from and extracted to help create another solution that's also customized.
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And the part of the part of what underpins this is the donation of compute power.
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How do you go about approaching people?
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What's that process been like of getting getting the kind of compute that you need?
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Yeah.
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So first of all, we do not call it donation, uh, we actually call it contribution.
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Well, that's what I was supposed to do.
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And and contribution.
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Yes.
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Because uh uh what we are asking people to do is we're asking people to participate, it's participation.
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So getting their agents to participate in a problem, and the way it's unique and different is like, of course, you know, how suppose on Reddit or Facebook or Wikipedia, people would go and contribute their time to for uh to solve a problem.
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Here we are saying you we uh want you to contribute your AI or agents to actually uh solve this problem.
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Uh, but in terms of being asking people to do that, so far the conversation that we have had, it's been such a positive uh reception.
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Like for me, because I've been working on this for a very long time, it just felt like sometimes I feel like maybe I'm just too obsessed with things, or I feel a bit shy about talking about things because of course I personally felt it was a great idea, uh, but I didn't feel know that I would get this good validation.
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But and you have that very personal connection to this idea because of the because of your family's connection to that.
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That's right.
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And I keep going back to India a lot.
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And every time I go back to India, I still have got a home, and like 500 meters from home, I meet the people that I grew up with.
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Some of them are still struggling.
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And although I am doing all of these fancy things over here and helping organizations become profitable and so on.
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I when I go back to those communities, I feel like, am I really doing something tangible for them?
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Like, what's the I always felt like, what's the purpose of me doing all of this if I cannot make a difference in anyone's life?
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You can give them, help them with some money, some programs that you help with, but the state remains over there because there's so many people around around out out on the ground that are still struggling, still trying to help others as well, but they don't do not have any resources.
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So for me, it just feels like it's coming full circle.
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Uh, because I've otherwise I I had a feeling of guilt in me as well.
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Like I'm doing all of these amazing things, and I'm trying to help the people out there, but I was not able to do enough.
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I feel with agents for humanity, we have this one chance for humanity where we can actually empower the people who are trying to do something and make a difference in the lives of millions.
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So the the feedback that we have got so far, Steve, you can talk a bit more about is it's been really fantastic.
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Like people are saying, how can we contribute?
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or we have got a problem we would like to post.
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How can we be involved?
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Yes, yeah.
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I I think what we might might have kind of come across here is an interest from both sides of the platform with the um individuals or enterprises contributing into the platform to help power the solutions and the organizations on the other side.
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It feels like there's maybe this bridge that's being created where, like Amir saying, people want to help.
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And it's easy to look at negative things happening in the world.
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But um I think at the core, everyone is good and optimistic and wants to contribute.
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And so this might be one way that they can do that on a small scale.
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And on the other side, you can imagine the millions of organizations that are out there on the ground working on a cause and feeling like they're you know yelling into a void and there's no one on the other side that's really recognizing.
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Well, just staring at a wall, going, I don't know.
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I don't know.
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And how do I do this?
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And my budget is is is tight.
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I don't have connections into others around the world that I know are doing something similar, but I just don't have those those connections.
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Um, and I don't have the budget to pay for a high-priced consultant to come in and help me.
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Um, so there's just that hopefully that feeling we can help create of support and goodwill and hope.
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And it's so funny, it's not even about like smaller organizations.
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We have had conversations with some of the really big not-for-profits, but not only not-for-profits, like social for good organizations, local councils, and everyone that we had conversation with, they said, Oh, we have got a problem.
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Here's the problem.
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We we want to put this problem because it's like problems are on the top of their mind.
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They know that they're not have time or resources to be able to solve those problems, and they would really like them to be solved.
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So that's there's a huge need for that.
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And on the other hand, there are people who are willing to contribute.
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The AI exists, so why not use this for this purpose?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And have you two thought about now?
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I know you're going over to to Switzerland.
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I think the final is on the 9th of July, am I right?
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Yes, yeah.
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So you two are pitching.
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Yeah, you've got to just it's only one person that can pitch in this round, and so Amir is on the hot seat for two minutes.
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Two minutes.
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So it's two minutes pitch and three minutes question and answers.
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Fantastic.
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Have you have you considered what it means if you win?
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Uh you want to answer that?
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Uh we I I don't know.
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It's almost um, we're not sure what that means.
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Um and a lot of it's just the opportunity to be there and I think help expand the the awareness in the world about what we're doing and um hopefully have some positive feedback, win or lose.
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Um but I haven't thought too far ahead, to be honest.
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You know, I'll I'll go a bit philosophical over here.
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So earlier I I used to care a lot about winning, and that used to give me motivation.
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And when I was going to Perth, you know, Sarah asked me like, How are you feeling?
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You know, I'm praying for you, you should win.
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And now I just feel like I do not need that motivation to for for the win.
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For me, if we can do our best and put our best front foot over there, it really doesn't matter if we win or not.
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Like, I think where we we have reached, it's it's almost like really good.
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And with these competitions, also about timings, who else is there as well.
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You know, if there's someone who's doing something really well, we would like them to have that platform or acknowledged.
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For us, if we are able to reach as many lives as we can and uh across the globe, because only going to work if there are people who are willing to, of course, put their problems, there are people who are willing to bring their agents and actually use that knowledge.
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So it's like we've made this fantastic thing, it's for the world to use.
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And we, as two or three people or a small team over here, cannot do anything with this.
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:39.440
It's now in everyone's hand, it's now in humans' hand to actually use uh this amazing thing for the help of humanity.
00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:57.119
So, my intention sort of going into Geneva is that if we can actually connect with as many people as we can, find the people who are willing to support some people who are willing to listen to this podcast and can then help just spread out the word, that would be the biggest win.
00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:59.920
Yeah, and that would be that would be a really big win.
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:15.440
I I I may also say that I think we'd be remiss if we didn't um um acknowledge and thank Innovate Australia as well, which was the um organization in Perth that um was responsible for putting on the Australia competition.
00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:33.440
And um Peter and the group there that's running that uh running the organization, it was incredibly supportive of us after we won and we've done sessions with them to help um hone the pitch because it is a very it's a very difficult thing to get down to this two-minute window.
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:35.200
I'm still struggling with my friends.
00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:37.440
Yeah, and so you get incredible support though, don't you?
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:40.720
Through that's one of the part of the magic of these of these programs.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:56.240
And there's it there's innovate organizations all around on it, particularly Europe and the Western world into America, but they do uh for reasonably small teams, they do an incredible job of really going, what do you guys a version of what you guys are doing with Agents for Humanity?
00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:56.960
What do you need?
00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:58.400
How can we support you to get there?
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:00.160
How do we give you the tools that you need?
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:04.319
Because no one comes in with all the answers on how to do this.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:04.480
Yeah.
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:06.640
Having that support's invaluable, isn't it?
00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.599
And and it's such a it's such a darling group, actually.
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:21.920
Like it's this uh this guy called Peter is an absolute gun who's been uh cheering Innovate Australia and almost like putting all of the strings together.
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:43.599
Such such a nice, lovely, down-to-earth guys, and uh the panel of the judges, because what they also did was they invited all of the participants to attend the pre-pitching sessions where they provided the feedback and also like insights and so on, and they were so good in volunteering their time to teach and educate as well.
00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:46.160
Even they're supporting us after this.
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:50.240
So I think the the support group that we have found over there is absolutely amazing.
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:52.079
We've got two Phils over there.
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:52.640
Yeah.
00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:59.759
So uh, and like uh the the level of help that these guys are providing.
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:11.200
Is they do the pitch feedback session and then Phil would put together all of the notes, like put it into AI and create like a full feedback pack for us that we can take.
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:12.880
And now they are flying us to Geneva.
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:15.680
They're fund funding the the trip as well.
00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:19.839
So it's I I think uh it's good to have that support system.
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:20.240
Yeah.
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:23.440
And part of it too is that that the experience has been so good.
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:24.640
Hopefully we do well.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:27.359
Um, I would like to win, Amir, I have to admit.
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:29.359
Um, so don't don't mess it out.
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:30.480
Don't mess it up.
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:36.160
Uh um, but uh yeah, we're also hoping that maybe we can help spread the word about their initiative.
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:38.319
It's it's it'll be the third year next year.
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:41.759
Um, I knew a group know a group significantly from the first year.
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:48.799
So if we can foster the culture of innovation and AI for good concept is um something we can hope to do that.
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:50.480
Yeah, because it's an amazing name, isn't it?
00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:52.880
I mean, AI for good is is a brilliant name.
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:55.759
Yeah, but it's only brilliant if it means something.
00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:56.079
Right.
00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:02.880
And it only means something if these sort of projects actually come to fruition, get on the ground and then grow and become real things.
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:07.200
So it's it's not to say AI for good, but what we want to see is AI for good.
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:09.440
You know what we are joking over there?
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:13.440
We're saying there's AI for good, there should be an AI for bad competition.
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:16.640
Wouldn't want to see AI for bad competition.
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:16.799
Yeah.
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:22.000
Are we not seeing that in the open AI and drop competing?
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:26.880
Who can make autonomous weapons?
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:29.359
But there'd be a nice voting system with all of it.
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:32.559
Maybe we can get the world involved in a voting system for AI for bad.
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:33.119
Yeah.
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:33.920
Yeah.
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:36.559
Maybe not held by the UN, just saying.
00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:37.039
Right.
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:38.480
Plenty of AI for bad.
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:39.440
Plenty of AI for bad.
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:40.480
Maybe held by US.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:40.880
So sorry.
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:43.920
That's okay.
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:45.519
He's come over to the good sign.
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:56.640
Um I'm hearing in all of this that there's so much of you two in this.
00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:00.240
Tell me about the relationship of working together and what you two bring to each other.
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:05.599
Because again, none of these things got off the ground without great relationships, without a whole lot of buy-in.
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:10.079
Um, and you kind of need to find that magic when you're working with people on these sort of projects.
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:11.599
And it seems that you two have.
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:12.559
What's the magic?
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:17.200
Romance and coffee.
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:19.039
Well, it it it's that's where it started.
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:26.559
It was funny because Amir and I were introduced by a mutual friend, um uh Adrian, who's uh a legend himself.
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:26.960
Yes.
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:35.519
And um he suggested for quite a while before we actually did meet, and we finally, yeah, a year, 18 months ago, sat down over coffee.
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:47.200
And um, I think we both had, like Amir was saying, we had connections and ideas, and uh obviously we're not from anywhere near one another where we grew up.
00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:48.640
Our backgrounds are so different.
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:54.400
Um, in the US, I grew up in Pittsburgh, uh, believe it or not, and lived in Colorado for a long time.
00:24:54.480 --> 00:25:09.759
And so yeah, on the surface, nothing in common, but Adrian, I think, sensed something of like we would do well to get together, and we just have had um a really fun relationship over the over the past um period of time.
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:14.960
And for the first six months, we just had meetings, chatted over the coffee, nothing happened.
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:22.720
I was like, we just would just have conversation and we it would go in different places, and then we'll walk out of the meetings like nothing substantial happened.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:24.799
Like, why are we good?
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:26.160
Yes, yes.
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:34.799
And I've I've had a background in um education with a partner in the US um for a long time and a company there.
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:43.440
Um so I think Amir and I both sensed uh you know an interest in doing something good, whatever that means and whatever it meant.
00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:51.920
And so as this idea kind of came together, I think this is what um really kind of made the made the relationship come together.
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:54.640
And like this is something we should we have to at least give it a shot.
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:57.680
And uh well, you're certainly giving it a shot now.
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:10.559
Yes, and Amy, there's a there's a pitch that I've heard you give, and I know that Steve's heard you give it a lot, but I can't let you just sit here without actually giving us your pitch.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:11.359
I gave you mine.
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:16.640
Oh I I I still muck it, like two minutes on the clock.
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:18.960
All right, let's go.
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:20.799
Agents for humanity and go.
00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:23.759
Okay, I'll skip the first first initial part.
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:38.799
Uh so Agent for Humanity is a free open source platform where anyone with a problem can post their problem, and then hundreds of contributed AI agents work on solving that problem.
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:51.680
But not just uh building the thesis, but actually building real solutions, real implementation pack that people can actually use in their day-to-day life when they are working on the ground.
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:58.799
So it could be budgets, uh, it could be uh curriculums, anything that they need on the ground.
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:00.160
It actually builds that.
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:07.359
The beauty with this platform is that uh no matter where you come from, no matter who you are, you can actually post the problem.
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:08.960
It all happens in the open.
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:12.720
Everyone can have access to it, everyone can see it as well.
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:20.960
And so far, we have done uh around 40 pilots across five countries, had some really amazing results.
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:39.440
But I keep going back to Sabrina from my father's cohort, who initially couldn't like even read properly or do anything, but now she's earning living for her family through the embroidery and the program designed through this platform and earning a living for her family.
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:41.519
And I think that's the biggest win for us.
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:43.200
What do you think, Steve?
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:44.400
I think it's pretty good.
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:45.279
Yeah, it's the best.
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:46.640
Yeah, too long.
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:47.359
Yeah.
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:51.200
You were coming in around that two minutes.
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:51.599
I think it was.
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:52.400
No, it was good.
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:53.279
It was good, yeah.
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:56.640
It's a different version to the one I'm going to do in June.
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.279
I'm just well, you know, keep some keep something back.
00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:00.000
Yes, absolutely.
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:01.359
Don't don't let it go.
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:11.119
I've I've seen, like I suck at all of my practice sessions, but when I'm actually out there on the stage, that's when it sort of like happens for me.
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:14.640
Yes, just switch to some some someone completely different.
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:18.079
There's something about the energy of being in those in those spaces, isn't there?
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:21.519
Yes, and I really feel comfortable like being there.
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:24.480
I really enjoy myself up on the stage.
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:24.720
Yeah.
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:26.880
But before that, I feel really nervous as well.
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:27.440
Yes.
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:29.519
I think that's very, very normal.
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:48.160
And if I'm gonna give you um a magic wand that is probably AI powered, but it is going to give you everything you need to get agents to humanity, agents for humanity to the scale that it could grow to, what could this thing do?
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:50.720
Tell me the difference it could make in the world.
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:59.279
M my hope, I think, is is that it just gives people agency, not a bad pun, perhaps, I guess, but I think it's okay to bad pun in this space.
00:28:59.440 --> 00:28:59.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:08.079
It's the for the workers on the ground in in these locations like we were talking about that may feel alone and without much hope.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:23.359
Hopefully they can submit a problem, they can connect with others, humans and AI to generate a solution that they can really deploy and and make them feel like they have have the ability and the agency to do it and make a change.
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:33.519
And on the other side, that those individuals contributing into the platform can participate and help see the results of what they're doing as well.
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:51.519
So, what's to stop every small community organization, every individual that's trying to do good in the world, everyone that's trying to make a difference for the people around them so that they can employ a good in the world, what's to stop them in the future being able to access agents for humanity?
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:54.000
I would say two things.
00:29:54.240 --> 00:30:00.559
First is if someone doesn't know about agents for humanity, then they can't really access it.
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:05.920
I think once someone becomes aware of it, we are pretty confident that they are going to use it.
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.880
Once they use it one time, they're going to use it.
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:19.440
So we want it to be their consultant, their chief of operations, that they are continuously going back to solve problems for the organization.
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:29.839
Another thing that can actually stop this from working is if we do not have enough people contributing their AI agents toward problems or causes.
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:32.720
So again, that goes to the reach.
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:39.039
So if you ask me what's the magic band that we would uh or what's what's our ask, our ask is reach.
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:48.799
Like if we can reach to every single person on the earth, everyone who's trying to do good so that they can use it, utilize it, be a part of their ecosystem.
00:30:49.039 --> 00:31:02.000
And every person with some sort of AI subscription or AI agent who's using Chat GPT or Cloud or OpenClaw, everyone in the developer community, uh, and so if they can contribute to it.
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:07.039
Uh and that can happen only by amplifying the voices and the reach.
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:13.920
We we we do not need like anything else if we can get that reach, if we can get the message out clear enough.
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:15.519
I think that's the biggest thing that we need.
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:21.440
So we need people to talk about it so this thing can take off and really be ages for humanity.
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:22.640
Yes, absolutely.
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:31.200
And talk to your friends, share it, uh, share it on the social media wherever you can, no matter how small or big your following is.
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:35.759
We want people to share about it, encourage their friends to participate.
00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:43.039
It anything such a movement like this takes a bit of efforts in the beginning to get off from the ground.
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:54.720
And that would require some amazing ambassadors to come on board and and really believe in this and actually promote it, shout from the top of their lungs and and be those ambassadors.
00:31:54.880 --> 00:32:02.480
So we are actually looking for for those amazing supporters who can help us really take this off and reach everyone on the earth.
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:03.200
Yeah.
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:05.920
Well, it's an incredible development.
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:11.759
It's a wonderful story, um, and it has hope and people right at the right at the center of it.
00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:16.480
So thank you for coming in to share it with us, all on the Dumb Monkey podcast.
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:19.279
All the best for heading over to Switzerland.
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:20.400
We're really excited for you.
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:20.960
No pressure.
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:25.680
You're carrying the hopes of Australia and the world with you, but no pressure.
00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:31.440
Um but either way, I think we're all winners for these sorts of developments.
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:42.799
So the more that we can bring people together, the more that we can keep people at the heart of AI, and the more that we can show people everywhere and start to talk about what AI can do for good, I think we're all going to be better off.
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:43.680
So thank you again.
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:44.559
Thank you for being here.
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:45.519
This has been really fun.
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:46.960
Um, and all the best.
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:48.000
Thank you again.
00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:48.640
Thank you.
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:53.599
And thank you to everyone who's joined in to watch this episode of the Dumb Monkey Show.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:33:02.079
Um, please follow along on the competition that's happening around AI for good that is being run by the UN in uh Switzerland in July.
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:07.599
Yes, and if you want to check out Agents for Humanity, go to agentsforhumanity.ai.
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:10.079
Agentsforhumanity.ai.
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:11.039
Yes.
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:15.680
Online, on socials, where else are we gonna where else are we gonna see it?
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:20.960
On the browser, just go search for it, find it, share it, spread it everywhere.
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:23.599
Put little celebration emojis around it.
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:27.680
And and I'm gonna have one fingers crossed because that's a lucky one.
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:29.599
But um, please, please get on board.
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:34.640
This is uh it's a wonderful piece of technology that I think the world really needs.
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:38.880
So great job, you two, for giving it to us and great job, everyone, for joining us.
00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:39.200
Thank you.
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:40.240
We'll see you next time.
00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:04.480
Hi everyone and welcome back to our latest episode of the Dumb Monkey Podcast.
00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:17.519
It is a really special podcast here today because not only do we, of course, have the Enterprise Monkey Dumb Monkey Academy founder and entrepreneur extraordinaire Amir Katob, my very good friend and host of the show.
00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:18.399
Welcome, Amir.
00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:19.199
Thank you.
00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:25.679
But sitting next to Amir is his partner in the fabulously named Agents for Humanity.
00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:27.760
It's the fabulously named Steve Berg.
00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:28.239
Welcome.
00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:28.879
Thank you.
00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:30.160
It's great to be here, Davina.
00:00:30.399 --> 00:00:30.800
Yeah.
00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:48.240
Well, guys, this is really exciting because not only have you created Agents for Humanity, and I'm going to ask you to tell us all about that, but the reason that you've created Agents for Humanity, or the reason we get to talk about it in this space at least, is because the UN runs an AI for good challenge.
00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:50.640
They hold challenges all over the world.
00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:57.359
There was heats in Australia recently, and you too won with Agents for Humanity.
00:00:57.520 --> 00:00:58.079
Congratulations.
00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:01.280
Which tells us the state of innovation in Australia.
00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:02.320
If we have won it.
00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:09.359
Yeah, I feel like you're underselling it, and I appreciate that because it's a competition and always, you know, always come in low and then surprise them.
00:01:09.439 --> 00:01:10.159
So that's okay.
00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:10.480
Yes.
00:01:10.719 --> 00:01:11.599
We'll accept that.
00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:13.680
But it is a fabulous concept.
00:01:13.840 --> 00:01:17.519
I haven't had anyone that I've explained it to that hasn't absolutely lit up.
00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:27.040
Um, so I'm gonna give you guys the challenge of responding to me, pitching your idea to you, and you tell me if I'm getting it right.
00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:28.079
That's a good idea.
00:01:28.400 --> 00:01:28.480
Okay.
00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:44.640
So in the world of compute, big enterprise users are now having very large programs or very large buys of tokens that they are using, and they're left with a whole lot of spare compute power.
00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:47.200
Now, as we know, the cost of compute is really high.
00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:52.640
All of us now, when we talk about the cost of tokens, it's got nothing to do with playing battleship on a board game.
00:01:52.719 --> 00:01:55.200
It is all about AI tokens and compute tokens.
00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:58.079
So you guys know that there's a real value around this.
00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:05.280
For enterprise-level users of AI, they can afford to pay the big bucks to do this big compute and they're getting value out of that.
00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:21.280
But we know that AI has the power to make a huge change in the world, to start tackling some of the intractable problems, the difficult things, and one of the best ways to do that is from the ground up, from people who are embedded in their communities that see those problems for what they are and would like to find a solution.
00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:29.840
But of course, if you're a small one-person do-gooder, or you're a small community organization, you don't have money to go throwing on compute power.
00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:34.400
It's hard enough to get the basic resources to make a difference in the place where you are.
00:02:34.639 --> 00:02:51.039
So you guys came up with this fabulous idea that went, what if we could get enterprises to donate their spare compute, and then we can use that compute to create agents and create a community that creates agents to then donate to these do-gooding people around the world?
00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:52.800
And that's what you've done.
00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:54.240
That's amazing, man.
00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:56.080
I think this is our Geneva pitch.
00:02:56.159 --> 00:02:58.240
Yeah, we don't need to re-ask it anymore.
00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:00.400
Cranch it down to two minutes and we're done.
00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:00.639
Yes.
00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:01.599
Yeah, we can do this.
00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:01.840
Yeah.
00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:02.240
Oh, yes.
00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:03.680
It is a fabulous idea.
00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:04.800
Like it genuinely is.
00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:09.120
It's such a simple idea, and that in itself is its genius.
00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:12.080
Um where did the idea come from?
00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:16.159
And what was the first step in making it happen?
00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:21.360
So it came uh from it came in different stages.
00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:25.599
There was like it almost like evolved into something from nothing.
00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:40.719
So it originated from my father, and he was trying to help girls in Aligar, which is a small town in India, uh, trying to help girls educate uh and give them employment, employability.
00:03:41.039 --> 00:03:43.759
But he was an engineer, so he didn't know how to do it.
00:03:43.919 --> 00:03:47.520
So he was trying to work out what to do, how to do.
00:03:47.680 --> 00:03:52.800
And so he reached out to me and my sisters like, how can I run this program?
00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:54.639
And we didn't know as well.
00:03:54.879 --> 00:03:56.479
But I knew how to use AI.
00:03:56.639 --> 00:04:06.960
My sister is a researcher, so we used our research and AI power to actually work out how we can use AI agents to help him.
00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:14.639
And uh, so me and Steve, we have been having these conversations for like last one year about different AI concepts.
00:04:14.719 --> 00:04:23.759
So I was sharing this story with him and how I'm helping my father and some of the other organizations in a bit unorganized way, use AI to help them.
00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:26.560
And Steve looked at it and it's like his eyes lit up.
00:04:26.800 --> 00:04:28.480
He's like, that's an excellent idea.
00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:35.279
What if we could actually evolve into a global platform where we could use the same thing but at a much larger scale?
00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:42.879
And I think we continue to talk from there and we thought about how what if, where where would that compute come from?
00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:47.519
And it's like, what if people could actually contribute their compute to it?
00:04:47.759 --> 00:04:54.720
So it emerged from there and then evolved into the concept which we know now known as the agents for humanity.
00:04:55.839 --> 00:05:24.000
I'd say, you know, Amir and I've had these discussions far-ranging and sprawling discussions about the things we're working on and different ideas, and I think there always been this kernel of um how could we use technology and in a distributed way to solicit contributions and feedback and um the goodwill of people around the world to bring it together to help solve problems.
00:05:24.079 --> 00:05:45.600
And so it kind of evolved over time, and I think uh with the um particular case that Amir had with his father to make it so um such a tangible issue that we could try to solve and bring something to bear on a specific problem that's extremely helpful, and also then to look at how it can more yeah broadly be deployed.
00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:48.480
So and then Steve's mind went crazy.
00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:54.399
He started sending me what WhatsApp messages can we use it to solve this problem, this problem in Kenya.
00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:56.959
My my friend is uh you know running a health program.
00:05:57.040 --> 00:05:57.839
Can we help him?
00:05:58.079 --> 00:05:58.959
Can we do that?
00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:01.040
It just went from there.
00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:10.399
So it started with one simple problem, but then we looked at the power of AI and how it can be actually solved to use so many problems in the world.
00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:19.759
That to me is when you first told me about this, Amir, that was the thing that really sang to me because when we have conversations about AI, it's easy to get lost in the tech sometimes.
00:06:19.920 --> 00:06:26.079
But everything that you guys are describing and the process that you've gone through to get to this point is about people.
00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:30.079
It's about how do we use a technology to help to solve people problems.
00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:36.959
So tell me about the process of building this up into a working model.
00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:39.600
And I know that you've been deploying this model now.
00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:45.839
So can you tell me a little bit about or tell us a little bit about how it's being used now and functionally how does it work?
00:06:46.000 --> 00:07:00.319
If if it's a small, if it's a small you know, one man in India that's sitting there saying, My mission is to um live the dream of my wife and educate young girls, give them an education that they wouldn't otherwise have.
00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:02.399
How do I do that using Agents for Humanity?
00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:03.680
So very simple.
00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:06.959
You go to agentsforhumanity.ai, the platform.
00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:11.519
It's going to go live, hopefully by the time this episode is released.
00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:17.040
You go there, post a problem, simply type it the problem that you have.
00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:21.360
We'll add voice features to it as well, and explain what the problem is.
00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:22.079
That's it.
00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:24.720
It takes a couple of minutes to post a problem.
00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:31.680
And once you have done that, there are a lot of contributed agents in the platform that people are contributing towards.
00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:33.360
They start to work on the problem.
00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:41.360
So they start by taking that problem and dividing into subproblems and saying, okay, what is the actual problem over there?
00:07:41.600 --> 00:07:48.959
Setting up research objective, and then new agents come and do rigorous research on every sub-problem.
00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:56.240
Once the research is completed, then uh an agent comes that creates a proposal around that particular problem.
00:07:56.399 --> 00:08:11.279
So that every problem through sub-problems, multiple proposals are created, and then every proposal gets dissected and argued and debated by agents who critique it, steel man it, verify it.
00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:15.279
And after all of that debate, a council of agents is set.
00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:21.600
So what we mean is that for a particular problem, who would be the right stakeholders who should have a say in it?
00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:28.399
Would it be a school teacher, would it be a local uh groundworker, would it be a mother of a girl?
00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:39.600
All of those voices are represented through different agents who look at a particular proposal and then score that proposal in terms of what they think about it.
00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:50.080
So, and then finally, the the proposal that gets 75 more than 75% of the score or majority vote, that's the one that makes it to synthesis.
00:08:50.320 --> 00:08:58.480
So we might have like 20, 30 proposals for a particular problem, but then the ones that survive make it to the final solution.
00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:00.399
But doesn't stop over there.
00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:12.720
Once the solution is actually generated, an agent comes in and sees what would a person on the ground need to actually implement this solution.
00:09:12.960 --> 00:09:23.600
They might need a budget, they might need cash flow, they might need a funding application, a curriculum, a meal plan, and it lists all of the things that they would need.
00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:29.120
And down the new agents that come to that particular problem, they work on creating those artifacts.
00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:41.679
So the person on the ground who posted this problem, in a few days' time, receive a full implementation pack that they can take, print, use on the ground and implement straight away.
00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:44.799
It's just brilliant thinking.
00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:46.159
It it really is.
00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:53.360
It's such a it's such a complete solution to what is so demonstrably a real need.
00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:56.799
How does it so I'm gonna I'm gonna get all touchy-feely about it then.
00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:03.440
Tell me about what it feels like to realize you've had these conversations, you've seen this need, you've you've done all the work to get this.
00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:08.799
And I, you know, it's been a long time of working on this, a lot of hours and a lot of conversations for you two.
00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:20.720
But how does it feel now to be staring down the barrel of going over to the UN in Switzerland to pitching this idea to the world and knowing that you're going to make one way or the other, ages for humanity is going to be out there?
00:10:21.039 --> 00:10:22.159
What does it mean to you?
00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:37.919
Well, it it it's I think again on the personal level, it's it's very satisfying when we know that there's in the case that uh we're talking about now with Amir's father and girls that are coming out of this program and they have a ability to generate income to contribute into their family.
00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:39.759
And that goes throughout the community.
00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:49.840
We have people that are now looking at expanding the program or looking at um how can they um become a facilitator of the program in their in their community.
00:10:50.080 --> 00:11:06.559
And I think one of the to make one note on what Amir was saying, I think that in terms of how this is differentiated from a LLM or something like that, where if you put something into Chat GPT, it's just it's going to give you an answer because it doesn't want to say it doesn't know the answer.
00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:17.919
Um, and the way this is structured is such that um even in the output that Amir's talking about, there are open questions that come as part of the the deliverable implementation pack.
00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:36.240
And so that the humans in the field deploying these solutions know let's keep an eye on these certain areas, let's generate on the ground intelligence and feed it back into the platform so that in a feedback loop, the the solution can continue to evolve and get better over time.
00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:44.320
And so I think that's another really innovative aspect of the of the program is that it's not just here you go and see you later.
00:11:44.399 --> 00:11:47.200
Um, we've delivered you a nice pack, off you go, and do your good work.
00:11:47.600 --> 00:11:48.320
Thank you for coming.
00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:53.039
And the idea of of the solution also being um open access.
00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:53.279
Yeah.
00:11:53.519 --> 00:12:06.720
So that if you think about there might be Amir's father in India, there might be another um educator or um workforce trainer in America or South America or uh Northern Australia or all.
00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:17.679
But there's a lot of overlap in some of the the problems are different, but there's overlap um that can be drawn from and extracted to help create another solution that's also customized.
00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:24.080
And the part of the part of what underpins this is the donation of compute power.
00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:26.399
How do you go about approaching people?
00:12:26.559 --> 00:12:30.480
What's that process been like of getting getting the kind of compute that you need?
00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:30.960
Yeah.
00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:36.399
So first of all, we do not call it donation, uh, we actually call it contribution.
00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:37.759
Well, that's what I was supposed to do.
00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:40.159
And and contribution.
00:12:40.480 --> 00:12:41.120
Yes.
00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:48.639
Because uh uh what we are asking people to do is we're asking people to participate, it's participation.
00:12:48.879 --> 00:13:04.000
So getting their agents to participate in a problem, and the way it's unique and different is like, of course, you know, how suppose on Reddit or Facebook or Wikipedia, people would go and contribute their time to for uh to solve a problem.
00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:11.279
Here we are saying you we uh want you to contribute your AI or agents to actually uh solve this problem.
00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:22.320
Uh, but in terms of being asking people to do that, so far the conversation that we have had, it's been such a positive uh reception.
00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:41.039
Like for me, because I've been working on this for a very long time, it just felt like sometimes I feel like maybe I'm just too obsessed with things, or I feel a bit shy about talking about things because of course I personally felt it was a great idea, uh, but I didn't feel know that I would get this good validation.
00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:46.399
But and you have that very personal connection to this idea because of the because of your family's connection to that.
00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:47.200
That's right.
00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:50.159
And I keep going back to India a lot.
00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:59.200
And every time I go back to India, I still have got a home, and like 500 meters from home, I meet the people that I grew up with.
00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:02.000
Some of them are still struggling.
00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:11.440
And although I am doing all of these fancy things over here and helping organizations become profitable and so on.
00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:16.879
I when I go back to those communities, I feel like, am I really doing something tangible for them?
00:14:17.039 --> 00:14:24.080
Like, what's the I always felt like, what's the purpose of me doing all of this if I cannot make a difference in anyone's life?
00:14:24.399 --> 00:14:42.399
You can give them, help them with some money, some programs that you help with, but the state remains over there because there's so many people around around out out on the ground that are still struggling, still trying to help others as well, but they don't do not have any resources.
00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:46.960
So for me, it just feels like it's coming full circle.
00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:52.480
Uh, because I've otherwise I I had a feeling of guilt in me as well.
00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:59.919
Like I'm doing all of these amazing things, and I'm trying to help the people out there, but I was not able to do enough.
00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:11.279
I feel with agents for humanity, we have this one chance for humanity where we can actually empower the people who are trying to do something and make a difference in the lives of millions.
00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:17.759
So the the feedback that we have got so far, Steve, you can talk a bit more about is it's been really fantastic.
00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:20.000
Like people are saying, how can we contribute?
00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:21.600
or we have got a problem we would like to post.
00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:23.120
How can we be involved?
00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:23.840
Yes, yeah.
00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:42.159
I I think what we might might have kind of come across here is an interest from both sides of the platform with the um individuals or enterprises contributing into the platform to help power the solutions and the organizations on the other side.
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:49.519
It feels like there's maybe this bridge that's being created where, like Amir saying, people want to help.
00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:52.720
And it's easy to look at negative things happening in the world.
00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:58.399
But um I think at the core, everyone is good and optimistic and wants to contribute.
00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:02.320
And so this might be one way that they can do that on a small scale.
00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:16.240
And on the other side, you can imagine the millions of organizations that are out there on the ground working on a cause and feeling like they're you know yelling into a void and there's no one on the other side that's really recognizing.
00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:18.399
Well, just staring at a wall, going, I don't know.
00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:18.799
I don't know.
00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:20.080
And how do I do this?
00:16:20.159 --> 00:16:22.480
And my budget is is is tight.
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:30.399
I don't have connections into others around the world that I know are doing something similar, but I just don't have those those connections.
00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:35.919
Um, and I don't have the budget to pay for a high-priced consultant to come in and help me.
00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:42.320
Um, so there's just that hopefully that feeling we can help create of support and goodwill and hope.
00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:46.639
And it's so funny, it's not even about like smaller organizations.
00:16:46.799 --> 00:17:00.480
We have had conversations with some of the really big not-for-profits, but not only not-for-profits, like social for good organizations, local councils, and everyone that we had conversation with, they said, Oh, we have got a problem.
00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:01.600
Here's the problem.
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:06.880
We we want to put this problem because it's like problems are on the top of their mind.
00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:13.759
They know that they're not have time or resources to be able to solve those problems, and they would really like them to be solved.
00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:16.720
So that's there's a huge need for that.
00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:19.519
And on the other hand, there are people who are willing to contribute.
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:23.599
The AI exists, so why not use this for this purpose?
00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:25.599
Yeah, absolutely.
00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:27.599
And have you two thought about now?
00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:29.759
I know you're going over to to Switzerland.
00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:31.920
I think the final is on the 9th of July, am I right?
00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:32.480
Yes, yeah.
00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:34.000
So you two are pitching.
00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:41.519
Yeah, you've got to just it's only one person that can pitch in this round, and so Amir is on the hot seat for two minutes.
00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:42.799
Two minutes.
00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:46.640
So it's two minutes pitch and three minutes question and answers.
00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:47.680
Fantastic.
00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:51.039
Have you have you considered what it means if you win?
00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:54.559
Uh you want to answer that?
00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:56.160
Uh we I I don't know.
00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:59.039
It's almost um, we're not sure what that means.
00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:11.920
Um and a lot of it's just the opportunity to be there and I think help expand the the awareness in the world about what we're doing and um hopefully have some positive feedback, win or lose.
00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.480
Um but I haven't thought too far ahead, to be honest.
00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:18.319
You know, I'll I'll go a bit philosophical over here.
00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:25.519
So earlier I I used to care a lot about winning, and that used to give me motivation.
00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:30.720
And when I was going to Perth, you know, Sarah asked me like, How are you feeling?
00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:33.599
You know, I'm praying for you, you should win.
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:39.759
And now I just feel like I do not need that motivation to for for the win.
00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:48.240
For me, if we can do our best and put our best front foot over there, it really doesn't matter if we win or not.
00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:53.519
Like, I think where we we have reached, it's it's almost like really good.
00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:58.000
And with these competitions, also about timings, who else is there as well.
00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:03.920
You know, if there's someone who's doing something really well, we would like them to have that platform or acknowledged.
00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:21.759
For us, if we are able to reach as many lives as we can and uh across the globe, because only going to work if there are people who are willing to, of course, put their problems, there are people who are willing to bring their agents and actually use that knowledge.
00:19:21.920 --> 00:19:26.160
So it's like we've made this fantastic thing, it's for the world to use.
00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:31.440
And we, as two or three people or a small team over here, cannot do anything with this.
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:39.440
It's now in everyone's hand, it's now in humans' hand to actually use uh this amazing thing for the help of humanity.
00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:57.119
So, my intention sort of going into Geneva is that if we can actually connect with as many people as we can, find the people who are willing to support some people who are willing to listen to this podcast and can then help just spread out the word, that would be the biggest win.
00:19:57.359 --> 00:19:59.920
Yeah, and that would be that would be a really big win.
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:15.440
I I I may also say that I think we'd be remiss if we didn't um um acknowledge and thank Innovate Australia as well, which was the um organization in Perth that um was responsible for putting on the Australia competition.
00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:33.440
And um Peter and the group there that's running that uh running the organization, it was incredibly supportive of us after we won and we've done sessions with them to help um hone the pitch because it is a very it's a very difficult thing to get down to this two-minute window.
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:35.200
I'm still struggling with my friends.
00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:37.440
Yeah, and so you get incredible support though, don't you?
00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:40.720
Through that's one of the part of the magic of these of these programs.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:56.240
And there's it there's innovate organizations all around on it, particularly Europe and the Western world into America, but they do uh for reasonably small teams, they do an incredible job of really going, what do you guys a version of what you guys are doing with Agents for Humanity?
00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:56.960
What do you need?
00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:58.400
How can we support you to get there?
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:00.160
How do we give you the tools that you need?
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:04.319
Because no one comes in with all the answers on how to do this.
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:04.480
Yeah.
00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:06.640
Having that support's invaluable, isn't it?
00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.599
And and it's such a it's such a darling group, actually.
00:21:09.759 --> 00:21:21.920
Like it's this uh this guy called Peter is an absolute gun who's been uh cheering Innovate Australia and almost like putting all of the strings together.
00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:43.599
Such such a nice, lovely, down-to-earth guys, and uh the panel of the judges, because what they also did was they invited all of the participants to attend the pre-pitching sessions where they provided the feedback and also like insights and so on, and they were so good in volunteering their time to teach and educate as well.
00:21:43.839 --> 00:21:46.160
Even they're supporting us after this.
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:50.240
So I think the the support group that we have found over there is absolutely amazing.
00:21:50.319 --> 00:21:52.079
We've got two Phils over there.
00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:52.640
Yeah.
00:21:52.880 --> 00:21:59.759
So uh, and like uh the the level of help that these guys are providing.
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:11.200
Is they do the pitch feedback session and then Phil would put together all of the notes, like put it into AI and create like a full feedback pack for us that we can take.
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:12.880
And now they are flying us to Geneva.
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:15.680
They're fund funding the the trip as well.
00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:19.839
So it's I I think uh it's good to have that support system.
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:20.240
Yeah.
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:23.440
And part of it too is that that the experience has been so good.
00:22:23.599 --> 00:22:24.640
Hopefully we do well.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:27.359
Um, I would like to win, Amir, I have to admit.
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:29.359
Um, so don't don't mess it out.
00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:30.480
Don't mess it up.
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:36.160
Uh um, but uh yeah, we're also hoping that maybe we can help spread the word about their initiative.
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:38.319
It's it's it'll be the third year next year.
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:41.759
Um, I knew a group know a group significantly from the first year.
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:48.799
So if we can foster the culture of innovation and AI for good concept is um something we can hope to do that.
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:50.480
Yeah, because it's an amazing name, isn't it?
00:22:50.559 --> 00:22:52.880
I mean, AI for good is is a brilliant name.
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:55.759
Yeah, but it's only brilliant if it means something.
00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:56.079
Right.
00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:02.880
And it only means something if these sort of projects actually come to fruition, get on the ground and then grow and become real things.
00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:07.200
So it's it's not to say AI for good, but what we want to see is AI for good.
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:09.440
You know what we are joking over there?
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:13.440
We're saying there's AI for good, there should be an AI for bad competition.
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:16.640
Wouldn't want to see AI for bad competition.
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:16.799
Yeah.
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:22.000
Are we not seeing that in the open AI and drop competing?
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:26.880
Who can make autonomous weapons?
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:29.359
But there'd be a nice voting system with all of it.
00:23:29.599 --> 00:23:32.559
Maybe we can get the world involved in a voting system for AI for bad.
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:33.119
Yeah.
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:33.920
Yeah.
00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:36.559
Maybe not held by the UN, just saying.
00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:37.039
Right.
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:38.480
Plenty of AI for bad.
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:39.440
Plenty of AI for bad.
00:23:39.599 --> 00:23:40.480
Maybe held by US.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:40.880
So sorry.
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:43.920
That's okay.
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:45.519
He's come over to the good sign.
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:56.640
Um I'm hearing in all of this that there's so much of you two in this.
00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:00.240
Tell me about the relationship of working together and what you two bring to each other.
00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:05.599
Because again, none of these things got off the ground without great relationships, without a whole lot of buy-in.
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:10.079
Um, and you kind of need to find that magic when you're working with people on these sort of projects.
00:24:10.160 --> 00:24:11.599
And it seems that you two have.
00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:12.559
What's the magic?
00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:17.200
Romance and coffee.
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:19.039
Well, it it it's that's where it started.
00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:26.559
It was funny because Amir and I were introduced by a mutual friend, um uh Adrian, who's uh a legend himself.
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:26.960
Yes.
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:35.519
And um he suggested for quite a while before we actually did meet, and we finally, yeah, a year, 18 months ago, sat down over coffee.
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:47.200
And um, I think we both had, like Amir was saying, we had connections and ideas, and uh obviously we're not from anywhere near one another where we grew up.
00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:48.640
Our backgrounds are so different.
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:54.400
Um, in the US, I grew up in Pittsburgh, uh, believe it or not, and lived in Colorado for a long time.
00:24:54.480 --> 00:25:09.759
And so yeah, on the surface, nothing in common, but Adrian, I think, sensed something of like we would do well to get together, and we just have had um a really fun relationship over the over the past um period of time.
00:25:09.839 --> 00:25:14.960
And for the first six months, we just had meetings, chatted over the coffee, nothing happened.
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:22.720
I was like, we just would just have conversation and we it would go in different places, and then we'll walk out of the meetings like nothing substantial happened.
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:24.799
Like, why are we good?
00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:26.160
Yes, yes.
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:34.799
And I've I've had a background in um education with a partner in the US um for a long time and a company there.
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:43.440
Um so I think Amir and I both sensed uh you know an interest in doing something good, whatever that means and whatever it meant.
00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:51.920
And so as this idea kind of came together, I think this is what um really kind of made the made the relationship come together.
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:54.640
And like this is something we should we have to at least give it a shot.
00:25:54.880 --> 00:25:57.680
And uh well, you're certainly giving it a shot now.
00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:10.559
Yes, and Amy, there's a there's a pitch that I've heard you give, and I know that Steve's heard you give it a lot, but I can't let you just sit here without actually giving us your pitch.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:11.359
I gave you mine.
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:16.640
Oh I I I still muck it, like two minutes on the clock.
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:18.960
All right, let's go.
00:26:19.200 --> 00:26:20.799
Agents for humanity and go.
00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:23.759
Okay, I'll skip the first first initial part.
00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:38.799
Uh so Agent for Humanity is a free open source platform where anyone with a problem can post their problem, and then hundreds of contributed AI agents work on solving that problem.
00:26:39.039 --> 00:26:51.680
But not just uh building the thesis, but actually building real solutions, real implementation pack that people can actually use in their day-to-day life when they are working on the ground.
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:58.799
So it could be budgets, uh, it could be uh curriculums, anything that they need on the ground.
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:00.160
It actually builds that.
00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:07.359
The beauty with this platform is that uh no matter where you come from, no matter who you are, you can actually post the problem.
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:08.960
It all happens in the open.
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:12.720
Everyone can have access to it, everyone can see it as well.
00:27:13.200 --> 00:27:20.960
And so far, we have done uh around 40 pilots across five countries, had some really amazing results.
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:39.440
But I keep going back to Sabrina from my father's cohort, who initially couldn't like even read properly or do anything, but now she's earning living for her family through the embroidery and the program designed through this platform and earning a living for her family.
00:27:39.519 --> 00:27:41.519
And I think that's the biggest win for us.
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:43.200
What do you think, Steve?
00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:44.400
I think it's pretty good.
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:45.279
Yeah, it's the best.
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:46.640
Yeah, too long.
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:47.359
Yeah.
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:51.200
You were coming in around that two minutes.
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:51.599
I think it was.
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:52.400
No, it was good.
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:53.279
It was good, yeah.
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:56.640
It's a different version to the one I'm going to do in June.
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.279
I'm just well, you know, keep some keep something back.
00:27:59.519 --> 00:28:00.000
Yes, absolutely.
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:01.359
Don't don't let it go.
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:11.119
I've I've seen, like I suck at all of my practice sessions, but when I'm actually out there on the stage, that's when it sort of like happens for me.
00:28:11.680 --> 00:28:14.640
Yes, just switch to some some someone completely different.
00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:18.079
There's something about the energy of being in those in those spaces, isn't there?
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:21.519
Yes, and I really feel comfortable like being there.
00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:24.480
I really enjoy myself up on the stage.
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:24.720
Yeah.
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:26.880
But before that, I feel really nervous as well.
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:27.440
Yes.
00:28:27.759 --> 00:28:29.519
I think that's very, very normal.
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:48.160
And if I'm gonna give you um a magic wand that is probably AI powered, but it is going to give you everything you need to get agents to humanity, agents for humanity to the scale that it could grow to, what could this thing do?
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:50.720
Tell me the difference it could make in the world.
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:59.279
M my hope, I think, is is that it just gives people agency, not a bad pun, perhaps, I guess, but I think it's okay to bad pun in this space.
00:28:59.440 --> 00:28:59.759
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:59.839 --> 00:29:08.079
It's the for the workers on the ground in in these locations like we were talking about that may feel alone and without much hope.
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:23.359
Hopefully they can submit a problem, they can connect with others, humans and AI to generate a solution that they can really deploy and and make them feel like they have have the ability and the agency to do it and make a change.
00:29:23.440 --> 00:29:33.519
And on the other side, that those individuals contributing into the platform can participate and help see the results of what they're doing as well.
00:29:33.839 --> 00:29:51.519
So, what's to stop every small community organization, every individual that's trying to do good in the world, everyone that's trying to make a difference for the people around them so that they can employ a good in the world, what's to stop them in the future being able to access agents for humanity?
00:29:51.920 --> 00:29:54.000
I would say two things.
00:29:54.240 --> 00:30:00.559
First is if someone doesn't know about agents for humanity, then they can't really access it.
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:05.920
I think once someone becomes aware of it, we are pretty confident that they are going to use it.
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.880
Once they use it one time, they're going to use it.
00:30:09.119 --> 00:30:19.440
So we want it to be their consultant, their chief of operations, that they are continuously going back to solve problems for the organization.
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:29.839
Another thing that can actually stop this from working is if we do not have enough people contributing their AI agents toward problems or causes.
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:32.720
So again, that goes to the reach.
00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:39.039
So if you ask me what's the magic band that we would uh or what's what's our ask, our ask is reach.
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:48.799
Like if we can reach to every single person on the earth, everyone who's trying to do good so that they can use it, utilize it, be a part of their ecosystem.
00:30:49.039 --> 00:31:02.000
And every person with some sort of AI subscription or AI agent who's using Chat GPT or Cloud or OpenClaw, everyone in the developer community, uh, and so if they can contribute to it.
00:31:02.240 --> 00:31:07.039
Uh and that can happen only by amplifying the voices and the reach.
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:13.920
We we we do not need like anything else if we can get that reach, if we can get the message out clear enough.
00:31:14.000 --> 00:31:15.519
I think that's the biggest thing that we need.
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:21.440
So we need people to talk about it so this thing can take off and really be ages for humanity.
00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:22.640
Yes, absolutely.
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:31.200
And talk to your friends, share it, uh, share it on the social media wherever you can, no matter how small or big your following is.
00:31:31.519 --> 00:31:35.759
We want people to share about it, encourage their friends to participate.
00:31:35.920 --> 00:31:43.039
It anything such a movement like this takes a bit of efforts in the beginning to get off from the ground.
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:54.720
And that would require some amazing ambassadors to come on board and and really believe in this and actually promote it, shout from the top of their lungs and and be those ambassadors.
00:31:54.880 --> 00:32:02.480
So we are actually looking for for those amazing supporters who can help us really take this off and reach everyone on the earth.
00:32:02.799 --> 00:32:03.200
Yeah.
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:05.920
Well, it's an incredible development.
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:11.759
It's a wonderful story, um, and it has hope and people right at the right at the center of it.
00:32:11.839 --> 00:32:16.480
So thank you for coming in to share it with us, all on the Dumb Monkey podcast.
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:19.279
All the best for heading over to Switzerland.
00:32:19.359 --> 00:32:20.400
We're really excited for you.
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:20.960
No pressure.
00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:25.680
You're carrying the hopes of Australia and the world with you, but no pressure.
00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:31.440
Um but either way, I think we're all winners for these sorts of developments.
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:42.799
So the more that we can bring people together, the more that we can keep people at the heart of AI, and the more that we can show people everywhere and start to talk about what AI can do for good, I think we're all going to be better off.
00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:43.680
So thank you again.
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:44.559
Thank you for being here.
00:32:44.640 --> 00:32:45.519
This has been really fun.
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:46.960
Um, and all the best.
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:48.000
Thank you again.
00:32:48.240 --> 00:32:48.640
Thank you.
00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:53.599
And thank you to everyone who's joined in to watch this episode of the Dumb Monkey Show.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:33:02.079
Um, please follow along on the competition that's happening around AI for good that is being run by the UN in uh Switzerland in July.
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:07.599
Yes, and if you want to check out Agents for Humanity, go to agentsforhumanity.ai.
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:10.079
Agentsforhumanity.ai.
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:11.039
Yes.
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:15.680
Online, on socials, where else are we gonna where else are we gonna see it?
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:20.960
On the browser, just go search for it, find it, share it, spread it everywhere.
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:23.599
Put little celebration emojis around it.
00:33:23.920 --> 00:33:27.680
And and I'm gonna have one fingers crossed because that's a lucky one.
00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:29.599
But um, please, please get on board.
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:34.640
This is uh it's a wonderful piece of technology that I think the world really needs.
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:38.880
So great job, you two, for giving it to us and great job, everyone, for joining us.
00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:39.200
Thank you.
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:40.240
We'll see you next time.
