#0035 JAMES COLLINGS - DISCIPLINE MEETS IMAGINATION!

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Hello everyone, and welcome to the Creative Nobeland Podcast.
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This is a fun one for me because the aim of the podcast is to bring you interesting and inspiring guests.
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And on this episode, we're joined by someone who inspires me regularly, three times a week, in fact.
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My boxing coach, my friend, and armchair philosopher James Collins.
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Now you might be thinking, why's he got a boxing coach on the podcast?
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Well, we discuss how boxing is an art and how it could be considered as one of the ultimate forms of creativity, as it requires skill, imagination, and split-second problem solving.
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It's like violent chess, but with consequences, and it can teach us more than we might imagine about not only ourselves but about life.
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We go into detail about the benefits of combat sports like boxing to take you out of your comfort zone, build resilience, humility, and the perseverance to keep going through adversity.
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We talk about strength, vulnerability, and how to stop being held back by the fear of being judged because, realistically, no one will ever judge you harder than you judge yourself.
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We also discuss James's creative journey, his talent for music as well as boxing, his time spent studying at the Royal College of Music in London, and how the two skill sets overlap.
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We talk about James starring his own gym, the Jab Lab, and his YouTube channel that provides workouts and great insights into the world of boxing.
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But we also talk about philosophy and the importance of having strong values, smiling at strangers and enjoying your life.
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And we explain why it's better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.
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You can check out the links to James's social media and YouTube channel while you're listening to the podcast, of course, but without any further ado, let's get into it.
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I suppose we should say we can't talk to each other like we speak to each other in the boxes, yeah, first and foremost.
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We don't want to be uh stripped off the internet just yet.
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Pre-warning.
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Yeah, pre-warning.
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James and I speak to each other like we hate each other sometimes.
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Okay.
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What came first?
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Music or fighting?
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Music.
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Yeah.
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Definitely music, I'm pretty sure.
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I remember being into albums a lot sooner than I was into Bruce Lee films and watching boxing on the TV.
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Was that the progression then just seeing?
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I think so.
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I think that's what got me into fighting or the kind of martial arts discipline first was TV.
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So what got you into the music?
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I think it's just musical household.
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My parents didn't play any instruments until myself and my sister started playing.
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My dad started playing at the same time.
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But they were always listening to music, collecting albums, always music on when they were cooking or cleaning or And then how did that progress into you wanting to actually learn a musical instrument?
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I can't really remember.
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I remember uh going to my grandmother's house and there being my uncle's guitar, so I would have been very young.
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They had uh a nylon string classical guitar that I just picked up beside, and I really liked it.
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And I also remember, again, being a musical household, we were always watching MTV and all that, even my mum and dad watching the videos and seeing people shredding the old guitar, being like, go, I want to be like that.
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And realised most of their players were very bang average.
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I far surpassed them in every avenue, including success.
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Here we go, and this is where James's ever ever-present modesty will come through.
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But there's quite an element within your household of like you wanting to learn.
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Yes.
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This seems to come across throughout your story, that continued personal development.
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It sounds like it started from pretty early age.
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I guess so.
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You said you were quite obsessive though.
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Yeah, very much so.
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Once I'm into something, I need to know everything about it, including who, what, where, why, how, all the different styles and means and genres and makes, brands.
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Yeah.
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It's all the guitar players.
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I'd find a kind of new band and be like, what's this about when their album's done?
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Who's the guitar player?
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Where did he learn?
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Why did he learn that?
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What who was the producer?
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Have you got any idea where that sort of obsessive nature comes from?
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Dunno.
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What I'd normally say, I'm not allowed.
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But in the modern era of ADHD and Audit, it's probably one of them, but I doubt it.
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Yeah.
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Just the way I'm wired.
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Natural curiosity.
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And also, I think massive credit to my parents is that they've always fed that.
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What do you mean they've fed that?
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So they've never been like, nah, that's stupid, or anything like that.
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Any hobby I've wanted to do or any kind of experimentation I wanted to do with it, they've always been like, yeah.
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Um, and including my sister too.
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They've always let us go and do things.
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Yeah, they've always been that kind of way.
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Very relaxed about it.
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Which is great, yeah.
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You don't realise as a kid how everything was still unfair as a child.
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Yeah, of course.
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But as an adult, you look back and go, wow, thank my parents for Yeah, absolutely.
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I had a very good childhood.
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And what did that look like?
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You went and had sort of guitar lessons and that natural obsession.
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Yeah, guitar, it was always like Christmas and birthdays, unless I saved my own pocket money.
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Did you steal your uncle's guitar to take it back?
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Yeah, yeah.
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So I stole that straight away, which they were all happy for me to do.
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But then I'd want a certain guitar for Christmas.
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I'd want an amp, and I'd normally get it at Christmas or birthday, or put some money towards it, or guitar pedals or any of that stuff, albums.
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And presumably once that obsession grew, you go from that cheapish nylon string guitar.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Bizarrely, I got a really entry-level martial guitar combo 100 quid for a guitar, amp, cables, picks, strings.
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But is that not a it's not necessarily about the equipment, isn't it?
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Presumably, it's about your dedication to want to learn half and half.
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Same as anything you can do.
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No, but what they're saying is like you can't just go and buy a Gibson Les Paul and suddenly suddenly think you're gonna be able to shred like one of the greatest guitarers in the energy world.
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Yeah, once you put the work in.
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And you were putting the work in, weren't you?
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Like that we talk about jokingly about that obsessive nature, but it was I'd be refusing to go out with friends.
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At the time, I was I'm gonna be in a touring, very successful rock band by the time I'm 19 or whatever.
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Uh so I'd I'd put on album after album and figure out all the parts and play them all or improvise over the top of them.
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But does that only come as a result of going into the music tuition so you can learn I don't know what the right word is, the theory, I guess, behind I don't really know.
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I'd I don't know whether the chicken came before the egg, as it were, and it was the theory that unlocked all the things, or whether it was just listening to it and just twanging away and making a horrific noise in my bedroom until I But I think it's interesting that music creativity came before the fighting.
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I think it it probably wasn't too far behind, but uh I don't know how old I was when I got that guitar.
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But then I remember watching martial arts films at a really young age as well and thinking, that was cool.
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Um and becoming equally obsessed.
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Yes.
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Once I was in, I was equally obsessed.
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But I think I was.
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When it was on, boxing used to be free on TV, on Sky and Channel 4 and all that stuff.
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Oh, I like that Mike Tyson, he's cool.
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And then Bruce Lee, more traditional at the time for me, he was more traditional martial arts, so went and found a local Kung Fu club, which was easy access, probably quite cheap, but I didn't, again, very supportive parents, so I didn't have to pay for it.
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Parents just again encouraging the music and the and Yeah, yeah.
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Again, any I I at the same time as well, I forgot to say I was playing basketball a lot, uh, and they're all going hand in hand, and the parents just dropped me off, pay for it, and so it's fully supported.
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But this club was pretty much I think the first one we found it was just down the road from where we lived, and was what I was looking for.
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I was learning how to sidekick and do very flowery, elaborate blocks and that stuff that actually in self-defense was completely useless.
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But we'll talk, we'll we'll talk about that.
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But we've all got to fly because I actually, you know, we spoke similarly.
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I started doing kung fu as well and thought it was that whole, oh wow, I can roundhouse kick and do all this sort of stuff.
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But I'm gonna do when they punch and leave the hand up, do this and do this, and then break their toe.
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Yeah.
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What do you think starting the kung fu, did that add an element of I mean, it sounds like you're already quite obsessed, already quite focused on the music, the basketball, the kung fu.
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Did that give you an extra level of discipline, do you think?
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Well, I don't know.
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I think it never really felt like discipline for me because it was so enjoyable.
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It never felt like work, any of them.
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It never really felt like it was hard to or I needed to be disciplined to get there, I was just there.
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Yeah, when you're so so obsessed with something, it's a joy to do it, isn't it?
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And again, my parents would take me there or whatever, so I never had to worry about the actual getting to advance.
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Yeah, I've got to be there for six, mum.
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And then I'd get there for six.
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Right.
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Mum.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And again, that obsession came in because you had kung fu DVDs and uh sorry, probably VHSs at the time, probably.
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It was a VHS with Kill Bill.
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What was that actor called?
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Carradine.
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And he did this whole workout going over all your techniques and all that, and then layering it into again flowery, elaborate defenses moves.
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And then when I wasn't there, I'll be doing that.
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I'd be practicing shadow boxing before Kung Fu in front of the TV, much to the annoyance of my mama and dad in the lounge, yeah, stretching all the time, like yeah, just fully I think it's interesting as a teenager.
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I mean, we don't think of teenagers often as being the most disciplined people, but you've always seem to have had that discipline and I guess I think I've always been quite selfish with my time.
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I was gonna say turning down going out with your mates and stuff to practice the guitar or practice your kung fu, or I've never been one to go with the crowd anyway.
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I always hated football when all my mates were doing football.
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I tried it for a little bit and like, nah, this is as rubbish as I thought it would be.
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And then even with music, I was that kid who was wearing band t-shirts into hard, heavy, angry stuff, as well as other stuff, but at one point it was just hard, heavy, angry stuff.
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No one else in the school, alone any of my friends, were into any of that stuff.
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Then drinking at the park, didn't start drinking until I was 18.
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Just what I wanted to do.
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I'm going to be in a band and I'm going to beat people up in competition.
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So you at the same time.
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The music, you were playing in bands through high school and stuff like that.
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What did that look like?
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Just for fun or No, we did gigs.
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We did loads of gigs at the school, obviously, for all assemblies and anything they put on, or anytime the schools get together and do a big show, we were playing.
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But we also we sold out Kitty Town Hall as a teenage band.
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We sold out Starbridge River Rooms, if it's still called that, as a teenage band.
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I'm trying to go out and so local venues as a teenager on stage.
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What's that feel like for a teenager shredding his guitar?
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Probably terrible for my ego, which is why I'm so modest and humble nowadays.
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Oh yeah, it's great, great fun.
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We were best mates doing what best mates do, all had the same vibe.
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Bizarrely, we had a really good for kids so young, a really good and gifted, skilled band.
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We all had all the technical ability and all that, but then the polish, because we didn't know really about guitar tone properly or live sound properly, so it just sounded like Oh, I see.
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But all the other elements people know about being a musician rather than just a skill to play.
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Of course, we thought we sounded bees knees.
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But yeah, great fun.
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Do you have any idea what your friends were thinking about this obsessiveness that you've got?
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Did you have any similar friends that were equally obsessed with their uh practice?
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Again, at the time and still now I couldn't really care less.
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Love my friends, still got a very good friendship group.
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Yeah, but that's quite an interesting part of the story, that ability to sit separate from the crowd, which is when you're growing up in teenage years, is yeah, what people think of you is their business, not yours.
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Can't remember who said that.
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That's not mine.
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First little sound bite of the podcast from James.
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Okay, see the music and the kung fu are running alongside, but again, the kung fu, you're taking it pretty seriously, you're doing grades, but then you also were that into it that they let you start teaching.
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Is this your first experience of coaching?
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Yes, I think so.
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Because I also I was teaching guitar lessons as well.
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Oh, wow.
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Out of my bedroom, which I forgot to mention.
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About a tenor for an hour.
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There must have been some natural talent because it sounds like you progressed pretty quickly with the guitar, or was that just the obsessive nature of the you were doing how you're talking about?
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It was I was watching TV and it was in my hand.
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I'd be noodling with the TV on all of it.
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I was uh walking around the house with it on, so I think maybe there was some natural progression and some natural talent, which So how old were you when you started teaching guitar?
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Probably about 14.
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Really?
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Which is about the same time I was I think probably teaching kung fu as well.
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What do you think your kung fu instructors saw in you that led them to let you start getting a bit more involved in the coaching?
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Free work.
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Come on, it must have been more than that.
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I don't know.
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I don't know.
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I just I loved it.
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I guess um passion.
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I guess so.
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Passion, maybe at that age I could teach because the teaching there wasn't it probably it wouldn't have been as hands-on as now, obviously.
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But I remember that I'd be taking part in demos, and so I'd be the victim of the coach.
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And I think I was leading warm-ups and stretches, so I don't think it was really I don't think it would be technic breakdowns or anything, but enough to be there and then let me help them out.
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But even taking charge of a class of students at 14, 15 years old is quite uh I guess so.
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I just might James being a bit of a.
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No, I don't know.
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It's again the whole blase thing.
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It's something I've never really thought about and uh I've never really been too probably to my detriment really when I was younger, never really been too analysis paralysis, just quick over the flash.
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Yeah, it just worked.
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But they had a new class so they just brought me over to help with that, I think.
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And I was a higher about, I was like a purple couple away from black at the time.
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Which again is a pretty quick progression up the rankings of the belly.
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This is the other side of your traditional martial arts.
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Is this where we need to get on to where you did your open mat competition and realise that maybe kung fu wasn't quite as useful as you thought it might be?
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I mean, as a personality enhancer and person maker, I guess it was helped me out.
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In terms of its discipline and oh absolutely, yeah.
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I think I do think traditional martial arts in terms of discipline for kids is brilliant, but self-defense and all that not so good, we'll discuss in a minute.
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Yeah, and for me that's probably what's helped me.
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But yeah, so we again with all this teaching and whatnot, we'd do sparring in the club, which just devolved into madness because obviously none of these blocks that were super elaborate worked, so you just end up flying at people and smashing faces.
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I found out very quick that bouts don't mean anything.
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So although I was a purple belt at the time, my first ever sparring session, the kid with me, oh I'm gonna beat you because I'm a higher belt.
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And I remember battering him and thinking, you know, maybe it doesn't mean anything.
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And you turn up any traditional martial art, you turn up, you pay your subs, you will get a black belt.
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Doesn't matter how good you are, eventually you'll get a black belt.
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But then, yeah, so we I started doing sparring in the club and I could do it and I enjoyed it.
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Then we went to some open mat, well, we went to some matted points karate, but it's obviously kung fu competitions.
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Can we just explain what that is?
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Points karate is essentially adult tag uh and also the concept of an open map.
00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:43.840
Oh so an open map tournament is that any club can turn up and take part and enter their fighters into this competition, whereas a closed tournament is people of the same either school or like uh family of school, so kung fu, or ours was Lao Gar Kung Fu, which was huge across the country.
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:49.440
Anybody from Lao Gar Kung Fu could come to a closed tournament and then on a mat, it's called Mat, open mat.
00:16:49.679 --> 00:16:52.879
It's a flat mat on the floor, you fall over and you'll bounce off it, it's great.
00:16:53.039 --> 00:16:57.679
But then Point Scarati is essentially it used to be pretty hardcore, now it is adult Tig.
00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:02.720
Score a point, stop the fight, start again, and all the Oh yes, one nil.
00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:05.680
So yeah, not like a real fight training.
00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:23.839
But so what happened when you went to the When's an open map that any gym could come to, everybody who meddled, so got bronze, silver, gold, was from a kickboxing or a tie boxing gym where they actually spar and learn realistic combat defenses, run through realistic combat scenarios.
00:17:24.079 --> 00:17:26.400
I thought, ooh, that's strange.
00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:28.640
Maybe I should go to one of them, which I did.
00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:34.319
That quickly showed me how useless flowery traditional martial arts can be.
00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.200
So were you beaten in this open map by someone?
00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:38.079
Oh, yeah.
00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:38.640
Yeah, absolutely.
00:17:39.359 --> 00:17:40.079
I can't remember who.
00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:41.119
I don't think it matters.
00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:43.680
I think it's like that realisation to you going from that.
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:45.759
Everyone in the club?
00:17:46.240 --> 00:17:49.279
Yeah, everybody in my club and all the clubs got smashed.
00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:54.720
So was that an instant just like the minute that happened, you're like, maybe I'll stop Kung Fu and have a look what that is.
00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:55.759
Have a look at kickboxing.
00:17:55.920 --> 00:17:56.400
Yeah.
00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:57.519
Which I did though.
00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:04.880
We've got a very world-class kickboxing club, Winspers Martial Arts Centre, uh run by the absolute world champion.
00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:15.519
What did that feel like walking into that gym at that point with the realisation that shit probably most people in there can kick my ass I've done, as you call it, flowery kung fu.
00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:26.319
I can't really remember analysis paralysis wasn't really a thing, just get involved in I don't even think it was realising that being uh small fish in a big pond was good.
00:18:26.480 --> 00:18:29.599
It was just going there and learn straight away.
00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:35.920
Ever kind of I I'm gonna get beat under there, no fear or or anything from what I remember.
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:37.200
It might have been different at the time.
00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:40.880
And what did you take over from the kung fu into the kickboxer?
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:41.759
Footwork.
00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:42.640
Footwork.
00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:43.279
That's it.
00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:45.279
So points correct is great for your footwork.
00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:52.799
Um I remember sparring a couple of people and being like, oh yeah, you know, you fight like a points fighter because they knew what it was, and it's hard to hit you.
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:56.160
It's like, oh great, excellent, because I don't like getting punched.
00:18:56.640 --> 00:18:57.039
Yeah.
00:18:57.519 --> 00:18:58.079
Who does?
00:18:58.480 --> 00:18:59.279
Yeah, some people do.
00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:00.640
Some people do, yeah, definitely.
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:02.240
There are some people that do like that.
00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:06.559
But again, you made quite a quick progression within this kickboxing.
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:11.440
You ended up at the kickboxing world championships, you were part of the England kickboxing team.
00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:16.640
So again, just start kickboxing, then fast track it almost in all of these things.
00:19:16.880 --> 00:19:17.519
Yeah.
00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:19.039
Is that just again?
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:25.279
I know you're very blasé, but you just set your mind to something, and it's that discipline and determination to just go boom, boom, boom.
00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:27.920
Yes, I guess so, because that's another thing I'd always wanted to fight.
00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:32.319
And then so I wanted to be in a band, a world conquering band, whatever.
00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:35.119
Then I was going to be a world champion fighter of whatever.
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:36.720
Two just run side by side.
00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:39.039
Of course, both of which definitely happened.
00:19:40.480 --> 00:19:49.279
I think part of it was I was always at the gym and uh doing as many classes as they could offer and trying to hang around here and there as often as I could.
00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:55.039
So I think they saw that made myself part of the furniture, not deliberately or anything, I just liked being there.
00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:00.400
Um once again, your passion just shone through and they pick up on that and go, well, let's get him involved a bit more.
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:04.799
Yeah, because I was a bang average at best kickboxer, for sure.
00:20:05.119 --> 00:20:07.039
Average boxer with very bad kicks.
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:08.720
So I don't really know how I got into the England.
00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:09.759
That's what I mean.
00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:10.079
You did.
00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:14.160
You made the England kickboxing team, you went to the kickboxing world championship.
00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:19.839
So you can't I know you're being blase and for once James is being modest, but you must have been pretty fucking good.
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:21.359
Delete what I just said.
00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:28.400
Well, again, maybe, but I was surrounded that that gym, especially at that time, was something really, really amazing.
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:30.720
All my sparring partners were killers.
00:20:31.200 --> 00:20:33.759
So I was the worst of the bunch by far, just in the gym.
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:35.839
And that makes you improve pretty quickly, right?
00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:41.119
Yeah, so I could at least the sparring was different, so like how we spar, we do structured rounds.
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:44.079
There it was just you go spar him, off you go, which is fine.
00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:49.200
But it was very much I learned to survive fast and not necessarily thrive.
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:52.559
If someone world class was beating me up, I could at least last a round.
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:53.039
Yeah.
00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:54.720
Um, which was that's good.
00:20:55.119 --> 00:21:06.799
But I had uh some European and world champions as sparring partners, as well as Matt and James, who are the owners, the Windsor brothers, Connor Porter, who went on to win loads of championships, Mike Clark, who went on to win loads of championships.
00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:09.440
So you're just surrounded by amazingly talented people.
00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:10.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:20.000
And even the people there were great people in the uh gym that wouldn't compete, but they'd spar who could have been world champions, um, but just weren't interested in the um competition aspect.
00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:21.440
Did you always want to compete?
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:22.079
Yes.
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:22.880
Yeah.
00:21:23.119 --> 00:21:31.920
Again, I think I always wanted to prove that I could be tough and hard and be a world champion, which I never was, but I think I always Why'd you feel like you wanted to prove that you could be tough?
00:21:32.079 --> 00:21:32.559
I don't know.
00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:33.279
I don't know.
00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:35.599
I think it's just what I've always wanted to do.
00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:40.319
There's bits of bullying in school, but I don't think any more than anyone else.
00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:40.799
Nothing too.
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:41.839
No, because that's great.
00:21:42.160 --> 00:21:43.200
That's very similar to me.
00:21:43.279 --> 00:21:46.160
That's I was raised by single mum, sister, grandma.
00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:47.200
So I was always around women.
00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:55.279
I was all like, Maybe I should do some fighting stuff to see if I can actually do it or what sort of a man that I am as a teenager or whatever that is.
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:56.160
It's uh Yeah.
00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:57.599
But it's just the same.
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.119
Yeah, like can I do it?
00:21:59.200 --> 00:21:59.359
Yeah.
00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:01.119
It is The in my opinion, the opposite.
00:22:01.279 --> 00:22:14.400
And we will we'll definitely talk about that and the benefits of combat sports and martial arts and fighting just for a bit of humility and to test who you really are when someone's trying to punch you in the face repeatedly with more skill.
00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:16.640
So what level did you get to?
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:21.920
Because as I say, kickboxing world championships and part of the England kickboxing team.
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:24.400
That to me sounds like quite a high level.
00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:26.240
It is to a point.
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:32.319
With kickboxing, you've got different governing bodies and no central governing body, so the quality control's not there.
00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:40.720
So you might have people who they're in a team, like I don't know, Team England or Team Spain, that have only had a fight or two, which one of them was me.
00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:46.079
I don't I think at the time I was in the England team, I'd had a fight or two, like a proper full contact fight.
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:48.400
Not I had loads of open mat fights.
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:51.519
And they're not very good, but they're in there just because they can.
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:54.240
Well, some people have to wear in their place, so I have to win my place.
00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:54.880
Really?
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:56.960
We had really hard team training, which was great.
00:22:57.119 --> 00:22:58.640
Like three hours of sparring and stuff like that.
00:22:58.720 --> 00:22:59.759
I'm sure I always looked.
00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:02.720
But they're yeah, whereas testing yourself, don't you?
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:03.039
Yeah.
00:23:03.359 --> 00:23:03.759
Oh yeah.
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:06.079
You're always going to do bigger and better every time.
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:18.400
Whereas your boxing, your world champions normally nine times out of ten, nine and a half times out of ten, they are world champion level because there's a border control, you have to go through the certain systems.
00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:19.440
Is this it?
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:20.240
Yeah.
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:27.039
Was there any difficulty balancing the kickboxing with your music, or did it just run quite naturally simultaneously?
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:33.119
It sounds like you had quite a busy time training, kickboxing, bands, gigs.
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:40.480
Again, at the time it didn't seem that busy, but you're a kid all the time in the world when you're a kid and no responsibilities.
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:42.400
So it didn't feel that busy.
00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:48.240
Did you feel like you were taking anything from the music into the fighting or vice versa?
00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:50.799
Was there a skills overlap in some way?
00:23:51.039 --> 00:23:58.160
I think with the so the humbling aspect of martial arts, I will say martial arts, because you're still getting humbled in your traditional martial arts.
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:12.960
But especially when you go to a place where you've been beaten up most sessions and learning that you're not the the big I am, that gave me more of a fuck you attitude for my music as in I'm gonna play these songs for you and you're gonna like them or you're not, and I don't care either way.
00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:15.599
So I'd have more of a stage presence for that.
00:24:15.759 --> 00:24:24.400
Whereas I've seen loads of bands, countless bands, just meek on stage because they're still self-conscious about whether the audience like it or not and don't want to do anything to embarrass themselves.
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:25.599
Who gives a fuck?
00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:29.359
There's nothing more embarrassing than being knocked out in front of people, which I've done.
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:43.440
I was getting beaten in uh in front of hundreds of people on open mat tournaments or I've been knocked out in the ring, I was knocked out in the world championships, like nothing more embarrassing than that, but just no one cares when you go on stage, but no one fucking cares anyway.
00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:45.279
So that's quite interesting, yeah.
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:49.279
And then the fact that the spotlight syndrome that we all have.
00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:50.880
Oh no one cares.
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:51.920
Just no one cares.
00:24:53.359 --> 00:25:03.839
You were still at quite a young age taking those crossover skills and going, if I can get knocked out in front of a hundred people, I'm not gonna worry about missing a note, which most people in the gig wouldn't notice anyway.
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:04.799
Yeah, would they?
00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:05.200
That's the thing.
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:23.200
I'd be there was a period at one in one of my bands where we were writing songs so prolifically, and I wasn't practicing because it was easy stuff, that I'd forget the chord structures and play the wrong notes on the bass this was where I'd be like, eh, and be shrugging and laughing, and I'd turn and the singer and the drummer both were like, What are you doing?
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:26.000
The crowd, non-fust, non-plus.
00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:27.279
They wouldn't have a clue, right?
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:32.079
Did you hear the note where I went wrong to my now wife or my mother who'd be there or whatever?
00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:33.599
Exactly.
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:35.279
Yeah, I'd be going wrong too.
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:36.240
Well, it's that thing, isn't it?
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:41.759
Someone could compliment you a thousand times, but if they give you one negative comment, you're only gonna remember the negative comment, aren't you?
00:25:42.400 --> 00:25:53.920
You might be doing a speech in front of 100 million people, and for the next hour or two after that speech, they're gonna remember everything you say, and you're gonna think, oh, that part where I slipped out of fart.
00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:55.599
Hopefully that didn't come on the microphone.
00:25:55.839 --> 00:25:58.960
And if they did hear it, a week they're gonna forget, who cares?
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:10.240
But it's all these little lessons that you're learning, because I know where the journey goes, that I see now this nonchalant, no fucks given sort of attitude is actually a real benefit.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:14.319
Yes, I think, especially now in the age of everything online.
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:14.880
Yeah.
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:16.000
Okay.
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:20.319
Obviously a talented musician, talented uh kickboxer.
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:24.079
Were you doing any coaching in kickboxing, or was it all student-based?
00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:26.079
This was just as a student, yeah.
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:30.480
I didn't do the uh coaching at Winspers until post uh uni.
00:26:31.279 --> 00:26:31.599
Okay.
00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:34.880
But the m this is where the music takes a bit more dominance, right?
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:35.359
Yeah.
00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:46.640
So school school, you're doing the music, you're doing your kickboxing, your martial arts, do the natural progression, went to A levels, but wasn't for you, right?
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:49.599
Uh year one of my A levels was brilliant.
00:26:49.839 --> 00:26:55.359
All of the classes were great, and music and I did music and music tech as well, they were both fantastic.
00:26:55.519 --> 00:27:01.440
Year two, there was I don't even know what it was, a drastic shift in what the classes were about.
00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:04.799
Didn't enjoy any of them, including music and music tech.
00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:10.240
But I also Which must have been frustrating, bearing in mind those are the ones that you're sort of like, this is my passion and nonehow.
00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:10.640
Yeah.
00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:22.160
Yeah, it was probably it may have been the first time that I had to come up against the whole talent versus hard work thing, and I didn't have I didn't for a lot of time didn't have the hard work aspect uh together.
00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:24.480
That was probably still too immature.
00:27:24.640 --> 00:27:34.160
So I really if I just knuckled down and did my hard work, I would have got the air levels because I didn't enjoy it and I was so used to just doing what I want to do with my time, I was like, nah, getting out of here.
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:36.559
And I had a big bust at the head of year as well.
00:27:37.039 --> 00:27:38.079
So what did you do?
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:38.880
Quit.
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:42.799
Went to college, did a music performance course there, which was brilliant.
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:44.160
But again, same thing.
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:49.759
Although I was working hard per se, there was no kind of strife in what I needed.
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:50.880
I wasn't struggling to work hard.
00:27:51.039 --> 00:27:55.440
It was all what I wanted to do, and college facilitated that, I'd say, in a good way.
00:27:55.759 --> 00:28:00.799
And I found it all quite easy, and I never really had to knuckle down when the chips were down, as it were.
00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:02.640
Is that where your natural talent?
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:03.759
I guess so.
00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:05.039
You call it natural talent.
00:28:05.519 --> 00:28:08.640
Yeah, this is your modesty again, but you've clearly obviously got that now.
00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:09.839
I I believe you have.
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:12.559
You you're shaking your head at me because you're trying to.
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:19.119
I think I'd just, again, being obsessed and working hard to a point, that's natural talent.
00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:26.880
But then when you have to come up against stuff that you don't pick up straight away, well I say straight away, you find difficult and then don't want to work on because it's not comfy.
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:29.759
What were the things that you were finding difficult?
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:34.319
In music, I didn't have they call it an ear, I didn't have a very good ear.
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:37.119
You could play me a scale and I could tell you what the scale was-ish.
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:43.039
You play me a chord and I wasn't very good at hearing a chord, single notes and all that, mostly fine.
00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:48.000
But then how did you, when you were younger, analyse all those people that were playing and work out what they were?
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:49.119
No, I don't know.
00:28:49.359 --> 00:28:49.920
Don't know.
00:28:50.079 --> 00:28:50.400
Yeah.
00:28:50.559 --> 00:28:50.880
Yeah.
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:57.279
So I think it was more the I don't know, I guess in a song aspect it would make sense to me.
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:01.039
Whereas for someone to just sit in front of me on a piano and say, what chord is this?
00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:01.279
Right.
00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:02.160
Which is never gonna work.
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:02.799
Okay, yeah.
00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:03.200
Yeah.
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:04.160
It's gotta have context.
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:08.880
And then sight reading was awful at sight reading, which I hate, I still hate to this day.
00:29:09.119 --> 00:29:13.119
But this course at college, this was much more music focused.
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:19.039
So did that open you know what it's like when you don't have to focus on the other stuff of the other subjects.
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:28.559
I think it was my most fun and creative time for music that I had in my music career, if it's called career.
00:29:28.799 --> 00:29:31.680
Everybody in this in the course was great.
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:34.000
Again, a lot of talented musicians, actually.
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:40.000
And then when we moved up to year two, the year below us came in and they were all great as well, really lovely people.
00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:43.759
So again, liking the kickboxing, surrounded by talented people.
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:46.480
Really good teachers as well, very supportive.
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:54.799
Actually, would treat you like adults if you're missing classes and all that, they weren't they're like, Well, they say, Well, it's your course to fuck up and you've paid for it to do what you want.
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:58.640
Which I think I needed that as well, because I was getting bored of school and education.
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:02.000
What the monotony of oh, it's nine to four every decade.
00:30:02.240 --> 00:30:05.200
Well, just I think more the teacher-student dynamic.
00:30:05.519 --> 00:30:08.000
I got bored of it, I think, just as I was starting my GCSEs.
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:10.799
I had good grades, but I probably could have done better.
00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:14.640
Um, and not doing homework and all that because I was like, what am I doing this for?
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:19.920
At this point, are you still just I'm gonna be in a great rock band and especially with college, yeah.
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:20.240
Yeah.
00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:24.559
Obviously gonna be in a world-conquering rock band selling platinum albums.
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:25.759
Easy like that.
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:30.400
Again, but as a classic young man thinking the world's gonna fall into your lap.
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:32.720
Because there's I haven't had any resistance yet.
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:38.000
Although I've been beaten up and whatnot with the martial arts, still no real like hard work.
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:47.200
But here comes the bit where again you're probably gonna be modest, but you're such a talented musician that the college are now saying we think you should go to the Royal College of Music.
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:47.599
Yeah.
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:52.319
Which I should Which again, some people might not even know that, thinking, oh, why have you got a boxing coach on?
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:54.480
You know, because there's this there's underlying creative.
00:30:54.880 --> 00:31:03.519
I mean, I believe fighting is creative anyway, but there's an underlying creative story that runs alongside this that you are a talented musician to reach the level of not anymore.
00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:06.720
But again, it's down to I imagine practice at that time.
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:11.680
You must have shown pretty exceptional things for them to go, Well, you think you can get into the Royal College of Music?
00:31:12.319 --> 00:31:18.799
I mean, I what there's songs that I played back then that I listen to now where I was like, how how the hell did I play that?
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:21.759
So I was doing some really, really good stuff.
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:24.480
So yeah, I guess I didn't want to do uni at all.
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:26.640
And I really I shouldn't have gone.
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:27.200
I wasn't really.
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:27.920
Talk to me.
00:31:28.079 --> 00:31:29.359
Why did you not want to do uni?
00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:40.319
I don't I can't really remember, but it was probably half of it being like, oh, I don't grow up and look after myself, and again being very comfy with the whole life, really, up to that point.
00:31:40.559 --> 00:31:42.559
Did you feel like you'd been a bit sheltered?
00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:46.160
Um even though I feel like you've I think looking back, probably.
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:51.039
But from the story, I think you've pushed yourself out of your comfort zone multiple times.
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:53.119
Yeah, well, yeah, I don't know.
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:54.160
I think I probably was.
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:56.400
Who knows?
00:31:56.640 --> 00:32:00.079
But the Royal College of Music, again, that's a next level thing.
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:05.599
That's down in London, that's moving away from everything into university that potentially you didn't really think you wanted to do.
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:06.880
It's free money.
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:14.640
So talk to me a little bit about the Royal College of Music because at this point you you move to London and it is all music, isn't it?
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:18.240
It's like you don't you're not doing any more fighting down there, you put that on holding.
00:32:18.480 --> 00:32:19.279
Yeah, pure music.
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:23.599
I was still watching the fights, obsessively watching the UFC at that point as well.
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:32.079
In my spare time, I doing little bits of practice watching all the fights, getting very drunk, and playing lots of video games.
00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:40.799
But the course, so it's the Royal College of Music, they had a subsect called Guitar X, so it wasn't the Royal College of Music is all classical stuff, which I like.
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:47.279
I don't want to play that, and then they have the pop world, but it's not pop-ups, it's contemporary music, that's the word.
00:32:47.519 --> 00:32:49.440
I worked my balls off to get in there.
00:32:49.599 --> 00:33:00.319
I went for the first interview, and they said, right, you need to do this and this, which I could do apart from one thing which I'd never heard of, which is a thing called the caged system, which is a way of playing guitar.
00:33:00.400 --> 00:33:03.519
Then worked with my guitar teacher here at the time to do that.
00:33:03.680 --> 00:33:05.440
Smashed it, got in there.
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:08.000
I was I was excited to go at that point.
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:13.119
And again, I think it was more moving away from home, living on my own, thinking I've done it now, I'm a big boy.
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:15.359
Did it feel like some sense of achievement in some way?
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:16.480
Yes, absolutely.
00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:16.960
Yeah.
00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:23.839
I've moved away from my parents at 19 to London to be a musician, which didn't really happen.
00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:33.440
But the main problem was I say the main problem, one of the main problems was I'd done all that work to get in, and then the first year of the course was doing all the stuff to get to the level I was already at.
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:34.640
I hate doing that.
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:38.400
If I go run in, I can't loop around a track twice.
00:33:38.799 --> 00:33:39.440
I hate it.
00:33:39.519 --> 00:33:40.960
So I'd done all this work.
00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:41.920
That's interesting.
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:43.599
I can't done that again.
00:33:43.839 --> 00:33:46.559
Probably my modern day autism or ADHD.
00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:47.279
I don't know that.
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:49.119
I guess in a similar way, that was similar to me.
00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:50.720
I went and worked in a photography studio.
00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:57.039
So everything that the university students were learning on the first and some of the second year, I've been like, I've done this all day.
00:33:57.200 --> 00:33:58.240
But like, yeah.
00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:05.279
It wasn't so because they obviously they knew way more than I did, and they were all like all the teachers there were industry professionals, still and now.
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:11.280
Amy Winehouse's guitarist was there as a teacher, a guy who played for Boy Zone and Backstreet Boys and blah blah blah.
00:34:11.519 --> 00:34:16.639
One of the names I do remember was John Wheatcroft, and he's a phenomenal jazz guitarist.
00:34:16.880 --> 00:34:23.760
There were so many like well-established industry musicians, so it wasn't that they were somewhat teaching us to suck eggs.
00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:30.239
I get it now, they were trying to get everything at the same level because some people get their own pay get in, yeah, they get in pay the money.
00:34:30.400 --> 00:34:31.760
But yeah, it just wasn't for me.
00:34:31.840 --> 00:34:33.920
I they didn't really like the way I play guitar.
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:37.199
I didn't really like most of the teachers.
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:38.960
I thought it was very clicky.
00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:41.360
But I had a good time, I had a good time partying the made.
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:43.199
Socially, yeah, yeah.
00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:48.159
But what was the straw that broke the camel's back where you were just like, this is not for me, I'm done.
00:34:48.480 --> 00:35:01.199
I think, yeah, just not I started to not turn up to some classes, stuff like that, being like, well, but again, if I would have just knuckled down and put the hard work in, it would be in a world-class band selling multi-platinum albums.
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:09.840
But like you say, with a lot of the things, if you're not provided the stimulus to give you that excitement to keep something going, what's the point?
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:10.239
Yes.
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:13.760
Did you feel anything about the sense of the qualification thing?
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:17.679
It's like, well, I can play guitar, I can play the bass, I can play these musical instruments.
00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:19.920
Why do I need a piece of paper to Yeah?
00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:28.079
And I've always felt that way with again with the whole bout thing, but just because I've got a degree doesn't mean I'm uh I'm any better than someone who's playing in their bedroom.
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:32.639
But I think that's down to most, it's a bit different if you're doing a maths or a science degree.
00:35:32.880 --> 00:35:34.000
You've got to get the right answers.
00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:38.400
But with anything creative, it's like I've never been asked once what I got a degree level.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:40.159
I just want to see what pictures I can take.
00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:40.559
Yeah.
00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:42.559
So proofs in the pudding thing, Chris.
00:35:42.800 --> 00:35:43.679
Yeah, exactly.
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:45.280
So how did that feel?
00:35:45.360 --> 00:35:46.719
That decision to go, right?
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:53.280
Bearing in mind you are quite a motivated human, and when you put your mind to something, I guess knowing you, you want to achieve.
00:35:54.000 --> 00:36:01.280
Was there some I don't want to say sense of failure, but did you feel a bit like what I'm coming back with my tail between my legs?
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:04.079
Yeah, they're probably going to London to be this big star.
00:36:04.639 --> 00:36:05.920
Now I'm back in Bewdley.
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:07.119
There probably was.
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:17.280
I can't really remember, but yeah, I imagine there'd be for me at the time again, didn't really mature and get too analytical till later on.
00:36:17.519 --> 00:36:22.400
There was probably some boisterousness and bravado of like, well shit anyway.
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:28.800
Which I did think it was, but again, if I would have just knuckled down and done the work, it maybe could have led to something more professional.
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:33.920
And I if I would have actually sat back and reflected on that, then maybe I'd realise and it'd probably help me out later.
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:34.880
But hindsight, isn't it?
00:36:35.039 --> 00:36:36.320
It's like 2020.
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:38.159
And we are where we're supposed to be.
00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:39.679
You are where you put yourself.
00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:40.559
That's what I mean.
00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:46.559
Well, everything every decision you've made has led you to being trapped in a room in here trapped in a room with me talking about you.
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:48.639
He's locked the door and I can't get out.
00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:55.920
So you come back, I don't want to say tail between your legs because you've got that kind of attitude where it's no fucks giving anyway.
00:36:56.480 --> 00:36:59.199
So I'm sure maybe a little bit internally, but yeah.
00:36:59.920 --> 00:37:02.079
You'd probably like say, fuck it, it was shit anyway.
00:37:02.239 --> 00:37:02.639
Yeah.
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:07.119
So what happens when you come back from the Royal College back to our sunny little Midlands town?
00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:12.000
Bizarrely, one of the first things I did was go to my friend's 20th birthday party.
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:15.679
Where they had a band whose bassists had just left and they needed someone to play.
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:16.800
Like, oh, you play guitar?
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:17.280
Yes, I do.
00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:18.239
You want to be in our band?
00:37:18.320 --> 00:37:18.880
Oh go on then.
00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:21.119
Did you prefer playing normal guitar or bass?
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:22.079
Normal guitar.
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:23.360
Bass is great.
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:28.320
Well, playing any instrument's great, but guitar was my my jam.
00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:36.880
What was it about the two because obviously a bass, you couldn't you can't be quite as expressive as oh math.
00:37:37.039 --> 00:37:37.599
Oh, here we go.
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.800
Is this where you're gonna go give me the whole slap the bass?
00:37:41.119 --> 00:37:43.119
Jaco Pistorius, end of argument.
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:43.679
Check it out.
00:37:44.000 --> 00:37:44.960
Okay, people go and go.
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:47.599
Uh yeah, no, you can't it's obviously just lower.
00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:49.599
It's just an active lower, mate.
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:52.639
No, I mean if people who are I'm I'm not that kind of player.
00:37:52.719 --> 00:37:55.440
People who are really good at bass are just as expressive.
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:56.880
It's it just sounds different.
00:37:56.960 --> 00:37:59.760
It's yeah, your lead guitar's nice because it's got such range.
00:37:59.920 --> 00:38:07.360
Whereas you argue And I suppose it's obviously the more prominent sound because I think you probably have to there's my naivety about sorry, bass players.
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:09.360
I've offended a genre of music.
00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:16.800
A better musician to play bass because there's a more limited arsenal of tools to wow the audience with.
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:19.199
And you wowed the audience on both?
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:21.039
Uh well, I wouldn't say that.
00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:26.639
Okay, so what so you you went to and you joined a band, so the music was still there.
00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:30.559
Did you come back and go straight back to the gym or uh yes, yeah.
00:38:30.719 --> 00:38:38.239
Because I wanted to I did want to come back and get into MMA straight away, but this was well before uh mixed martial arts was prominent.
00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:40.960
So went straight back to Winspers and yeah.
00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:46.639
And is this sort of where you realise as well that you're perhaps better at punching people than you are kicking people?
00:38:46.880 --> 00:38:53.119
Still kicked for a while, but yeah, yeah, because this is where I came back and then went to the world's.
00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:54.960
So came back, Team England.
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:55.679
Oh, of course.
00:38:56.239 --> 00:39:05.760
Yeah, the timeline is yeah, it's so you you went away, you didn't fight for over for what, a year and a half, something like that, while you were in London, and then you came back and then straight back into training.
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:09.360
Still shadow boxing in my room, push-ups, sit-ups, all that kind of stuff.
00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:11.519
So you still had that element of discipline.
00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:12.639
Yeah.
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:14.719
Well, I I think I was just bored.
00:39:14.960 --> 00:39:16.000
Bored in my bedroom.
00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:20.320
I think the love of playing and practicing guitar had been sucked out of me, so I needed something to do.
00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:22.639
Was just video game time.
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:27.840
So came back to the Midlands, jumped straight back into kickboxing, straight back into a band.
00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:28.400
Yeah.
00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:30.000
Which is that's this area.
00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:32.960
You come back and it goes straight back into what you were doing before.
00:39:33.199 --> 00:39:33.679
Which is great.
00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:34.559
I love this area.
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:36.960
I think it's very nice, it's very picturesque, very beautiful.
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:39.760
It's also a black hole of keeping people in the same shape.
00:39:40.079 --> 00:39:40.960
Surely it is what you make.
00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:42.159
It is always what you make.
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:43.039
There you go.
00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:45.039
What does work look like for you then?
00:39:45.199 --> 00:39:47.199
So you've got out of education.
00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:49.360
Yeah, what do you what are you doing?
00:39:49.519 --> 00:39:50.000
What's the plan?
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:51.679
As little as possible.
00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:55.039
I what was I doing straight away?
00:39:55.199 --> 00:40:08.559
I was labouring for my neighbour who was an electrician, which is a job I should not be anywhere near anything on building side, so I can't do anything manly or skilled in those regards because I'm terrible, hate DIY and I hate all that.
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:09.599
But I did that for a bit.
00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:16.400
Were these just means to an end, sort of things like need to earn some money, pay for gum shields and guitar strings.
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:19.119
Just stuff, yeah, car, yeah, all that stuff.
00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:21.119
Because I remember I upset my neighbour.
00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:24.559
He thought I meant that electrician wasn't a proper job.
00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:26.000
I didn't use that term.
00:40:26.079 --> 00:40:29.840
I said it's not the job for me, because he was like, Why don't you just work here forever?
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:31.840
I said, No, I need a proper job for me.
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:33.920
But what did a proper job look like for you?
00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:35.440
Anything I enjoy, I reckon.
00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:35.920
Yeah.
00:40:36.159 --> 00:40:37.440
Got for everybody.
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:38.320
No experience.
00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:38.880
Yeah.
00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:42.079
So yeah, did the labouring electrician labouring for a bit?
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:44.159
I can't remember why that stopped.
00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:46.320
Probably because you told him it wasn't a proper job.
00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:47.039
Yeah.
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:48.480
He's a good bloke as well.
00:40:48.559 --> 00:40:50.320
No, I didn't say it wasn't a proper job.
00:40:50.639 --> 00:40:52.000
It's just not a job I could do.
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:54.400
This is where the fire service.
00:40:54.639 --> 00:40:57.119
Yeah, so then I went into the fire brigade.
00:40:57.199 --> 00:41:06.320
I found the love of a good woman by this point, who's now my wife, who actually gave me a boot up the arse and made me start being disciplined and driven rather than just driven.
00:41:06.559 --> 00:41:08.159
A bit more future focused, maybe.
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:08.960
I guess so.
00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:10.079
But yeah, she saw the sign.
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:12.239
She wanted a good prospect of a man.
00:41:14.239 --> 00:41:16.559
You're just noodling in your bedroom again.
00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:18.239
Which is fair enough.
00:41:18.400 --> 00:41:22.480
Yeah, so she booted me up the arse to apply for on call firefighter copies.
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:23.679
And talk to me a bit about that.
00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:25.519
That's not a full-time firefighter.
00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:28.719
You are on call more than you would be for full-time.
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:29.039
Right.
00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:31.280
And it's one of the best jobs I've ever had.
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:33.760
So what, they pay you to be on call or you only get paid?
00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:40.400
Yeah, you get a retainer per year, can't remember what it was, not a lot, and then you get paid per hour for all your training and every time you're called out.
00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:45.360
Did you feel like you had more of a purpose going through the It was a job I was proud of.
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:46.559
Absolutely.
00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:47.599
I loved it.
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:52.320
There was everything about it, all the training, all the courses, very much out of the comfort zone.
00:41:52.400 --> 00:41:58.239
It was very like back then, it wasn't like militant army style training, but it was still had fringes of that.
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:04.719
So we would get disciplined and shouted at and screamed at and put in depression, which I liked, and all that kind of stuff, which was good.
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:08.639
And then once I'd qualified and everything, the team we had, it was great.
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:19.920
Half the crew were old guard, and then half the crew were new, like everyone under mid-20s, and it was everyone got on, everyone was really good, healthy working atmosphere.
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:30.800
Again, much like my childhood, all your questions were encouraged and experiment and do this and do that, and like encouragement of learning and all that was very much encouraged.
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:32.000
That's right.
00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:39.920
But with those strange contracts and call-out stuff, is that dare I say, is that financially sustainable?
00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:40.480
It was.
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:45.280
I was lucky at the time because um we need some more call-outs tonight.
00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:46.719
We need some more road traffic out there.
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:49.519
I had a few dodgy mates who'd set fires for me.
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:57.440
No, we had um we had two or three massive fires that went on for months in the area that really sorted me out financially.
00:42:57.519 --> 00:42:58.079
It was great.
00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:01.760
Because there's no no risk of damage to any other property or life.
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:04.320
It was just sit and watch it button twelve hours.
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:05.119
Oh wow.
00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:06.079
And get paid for it.
00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:12.880
And get paid and get free food for it from pizza, McDonald's, oh wow, all the stuff you don't really want to eat, but that's it.
00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:15.199
Just all the shit that you just don't want in you.
00:43:15.440 --> 00:43:21.119
What led to you leaving the fire service if you did find it rewarding and obviously you could have all the McDonald's you could eat?
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:21.599
Yeah.
00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:24.320
And again, needed no, I didn't get fat.
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:24.960
How dare you?
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:26.000
That's me now.
00:43:26.800 --> 00:43:32.159
Again, I needed a proper job, a job with a more consistent income.
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:32.880
Yeah.
00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:38.079
So yeah, I qualified, I did all my PT qualifications and all that during this time.
00:43:38.239 --> 00:43:43.599
Then I looked for PT work and there was none doing air quotations for your listeners.
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:52.320
There was none, but again, didn't actually put myself out there because I still wasn't quite mature enough to be like, actually, I'm gonna go to this gym and do it from the ground up.
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:57.199
Just I wanted the perfect job for me at the time, which doesn't exist in this kind of industry.
00:43:57.519 --> 00:43:59.679
What made you run that PT course alongside?
00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:03.360
The fire service, is it just again something you wanted to do, or was it?
00:44:03.679 --> 00:44:04.079
Yeah, yeah.
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:06.400
I just need oh yeah, something I wanted to do.
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:07.679
And you had the time, I guess.
00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:07.920
Yeah.
00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:11.840
Around again, nothing but time still living like a teenager, really.
00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:13.920
And how old are you at this point, should we say?
00:44:14.320 --> 00:44:16.639
Twenty, twenty, twenty-one.
00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:18.159
Not an adult, really.
00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:20.320
No clue of what life actually is.
00:44:20.480 --> 00:44:21.280
I still don't.
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:22.800
Yeah, not an adult now.
00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:35.519
Yeah, so all that was going on, needed a consistent income, got a Wi-Fi job, which paid well to time, but cut into the hours that I could be on call for.
00:44:35.679 --> 00:44:40.159
And then the guy who ran our area in the fire service just got rid of it.
00:44:40.320 --> 00:44:42.400
Although he just spent all the money on training me up.
00:44:42.880 --> 00:44:44.239
Just now, not needed.
00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:45.519
So I was gutted.
00:44:46.000 --> 00:44:50.880
But going straight into a job which was new, fresh, and exciting at the time with the Wi-Fi stuff, learning again.
00:44:51.119 --> 00:44:52.480
What do you mean the Wi-Fi stuff?
00:44:52.559 --> 00:44:52.880
What was that?
00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:53.360
Installing.
00:44:53.679 --> 00:45:00.800
I was installing industrial Wi-Fi and CCTV and wireless solutions to anybody's problems.
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:05.039
So you went from being an electrician that you didn't consider a proper job.
00:45:05.199 --> 00:45:05.519
Yeah.
00:45:05.840 --> 00:45:09.519
To against the back cable pulling and stuff again.
00:45:09.840 --> 00:45:11.840
Well, I was learning more with the electrician.
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:18.639
Obviously, I couldn't really do any of the interesting stuff because they let me do plugs and lights.
00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:19.039
Right.
00:45:19.199 --> 00:45:19.280
Yeah.
00:45:19.599 --> 00:45:22.159
But any of the good stuff where I could kill myself on the loud.
00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:26.639
Whereas Wi-Fi, I was learning about all of it, the whole thing, how to give surveys.
00:45:26.800 --> 00:45:29.599
I was doing some of the sales and brokering some of the deals.
00:45:30.000 --> 00:45:32.079
Did you feel a bit more like an adult at this point?
00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:33.039
Yes, probably.
00:45:33.199 --> 00:45:34.239
I still don't feel like an adult.
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:43.440
No, I know, but I know that you're we're both big man children, but but that sense of that quote unquote proper job, oh, I can do this, it's got prospects.
00:45:43.920 --> 00:45:46.079
Yeah, I could see definitely see a future in it.
00:45:46.320 --> 00:45:47.679
The only way was up.
00:45:47.840 --> 00:45:54.400
In terms of I could get quarrels and do this, I could learn coding, I learned how to do fibre optic cabling and all that kind of stuff.
00:45:54.559 --> 00:45:55.679
I'm a big boy.
00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:57.199
Yeah, I'm a big grown-up.
00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:58.159
You're wearing your big boy.
00:45:58.639 --> 00:45:59.360
Look at me.
00:45:59.599 --> 00:45:59.840
Yeah.
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:00.320
Okay.
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:06.159
But then full-time job, does that leave you much time for with the corporate world, Matthew?
00:46:06.239 --> 00:46:07.199
There's not much time for fun.
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:09.920
I was gonna say much time for fire, much time for music.
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:10.480
What's going on?
00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:12.639
So yeah, the fire brigade got knocked on the head.
00:46:12.719 --> 00:46:16.400
I was still in the band, the same band, still having band practices and whatnot.
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:28.719
And the start of this job was much more nine to five, and go out on site every now and again and do the installs, so I could still do all my kitboxing, which was slowly morphing into boxing because I couldn't really kick very well.
00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:35.440
And then yeah, the company themselves got more and more successful and bigger and bigger without increasing the staff per se.
00:46:35.679 --> 00:46:43.599
So I was doing more and more of the work, and then that's when all the creative stuff just stopped through choice of my own religious work hours.
00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:49.280
But what did that do to your physicality, your mental health, those sorts of things?
00:46:49.599 --> 00:46:55.840
I got fat, miserable, depressed, fringe suicidal, panic attacks.
00:46:56.159 --> 00:46:57.760
Are you alright to talk a little bit about that?
00:46:58.079 --> 00:47:02.000
Because this is from man that everyone sees today, this is Yeah.
00:47:02.079 --> 00:47:07.360
Oh yeah, and I always will always talk about like my mental health struggles and all that stuff.
00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:09.119
So you are starting to struggle.
00:47:09.199 --> 00:47:25.440
That taking away your physicality, you're probably working strange hours, so grabbing food, eating shit, like you say, maybe you put I can't imagine you're fat, but like I imagine you're not in the shape that I was chunky, probably like close to 14 stone of nothing athletic.
00:48:01.550 --> 00:48:13.470
But the mental health side of things, you're burning the candle at both ends, essentially, but only with the job, working strange hours, yeah, 16-hour days, away, coming back, no time, no regularity for your training.
00:48:13.550 --> 00:48:16.030
Yeah, this is where your mental health starts to suffer, right?
00:48:16.190 --> 00:48:17.630
Yeah, big time, absolutely.
00:48:17.869 --> 00:48:18.750
In what way?
00:48:19.150 --> 00:48:22.990
Again, I think I was still so used to being selfish with my time that I couldn't anymore.
00:48:23.150 --> 00:48:24.590
And that really frustrated me.
00:48:24.670 --> 00:48:28.030
I remember sometimes finishing a job on time.
00:48:28.110 --> 00:48:33.550
I mean, like, I'll get back in time to go training, classic English motorways, getting stuck in traffic.
00:48:33.630 --> 00:48:36.110
I remember screaming at my steering wheel and trying to rip it up.
00:48:36.269 --> 00:48:36.429
Yeah.
00:48:37.070 --> 00:48:37.869
No exaggeration.
00:48:38.190 --> 00:48:39.550
Because you needed that outlet, that finish.
00:48:39.789 --> 00:48:42.429
Just I can't I can't believe I'm not going to the gym again.
00:48:42.590 --> 00:48:44.829
And yeah, and then my weekends were spent doing.
00:48:45.230 --> 00:48:51.309
I remember I was buying loads, uh, started collecting watches and whiskey, and again, trying to learn all the stuff about that.
00:48:51.389 --> 00:48:56.429
I guess just for something to keep learning about, which I think about watches or whiskey.
00:48:56.510 --> 00:48:56.670
Yeah.
00:48:56.909 --> 00:49:01.230
And I couldn't afford anything decent or anything worth reselling or anything like that.
00:49:01.470 --> 00:49:06.909
Do you think that was just as I say, some sort of trying to focus yourself on something that wasn't the work?
00:49:07.070 --> 00:49:10.349
That's just trying to consume and be happy, I think.
00:49:10.670 --> 00:49:12.030
Which we talk about a lot, don't we?
00:49:12.190 --> 00:49:14.349
The idea of consumption and be happy.
00:49:14.590 --> 00:49:20.030
But your mental health suffered so much that you were starting to feel a bit anxiety, panic attacks.
00:49:20.110 --> 00:49:20.590
Yes.
00:49:20.829 --> 00:49:23.309
To the point where you you went and spoke to someone, yeah?
00:49:23.470 --> 00:49:23.789
Yeah.
00:49:24.030 --> 00:49:27.869
I remember my first panic attack, I didn't really know what was going on.
00:49:28.110 --> 00:49:35.630
And I was doing a really boring aspect of the Wi-Fi job, which is punching down cables, it's monotonous, it takes ages, it's fiddly.
00:49:35.710 --> 00:49:38.909
I hate fiddly jobs, and just everything about it sucks.
00:49:39.150 --> 00:49:44.110
So I was doing that, and I just felt like I needed to run, and I felt a bit like, oh, tingly in the fingers.
00:49:44.190 --> 00:49:45.869
Just I couldn't, I don't know, I couldn't explain it.
00:49:45.949 --> 00:49:49.789
And like the guy I was working with, I was like, I think I'm I'm gonna go for a run.
00:49:50.030 --> 00:49:51.230
I feel bizarre.
00:49:51.550 --> 00:49:54.670
He was like, Oh, you probably had too much coffee because I was smashing the coffee at that point.
00:49:54.829 --> 00:50:00.510
Then it kept happening, and then it kept being like going dizzy and stuff like that, and all the usual panic attacks.
00:50:01.389 --> 00:50:06.269
Then I can't remember what caused the I think I was probably chatting to my wife about it, who wasn't my wife then.
00:50:06.510 --> 00:50:09.949
And she's a nurse, and she was saying, Oh, you know, you need to speak to someone.
00:50:10.190 --> 00:50:11.710
And I can't remember what the trigger was.
00:50:11.869 --> 00:50:22.190
I remember at one point my sister was pregnant and got in a car crash, and that sent me I had to leave the job and everything and come home, sent me all types of anxious, sick.
00:50:22.909 --> 00:50:23.869
Can't be here, I gotta go.
00:50:24.190 --> 00:50:25.309
Just abandoning the job.
00:50:25.630 --> 00:50:28.750
So yeah, but I don't know what the actual cause was, but it needed to happen.
00:50:28.829 --> 00:50:30.829
So yeah, went to the doctors and they were great.
00:50:31.070 --> 00:50:34.670
And the drugs they put me on, Certraline was fantastic.
00:50:34.990 --> 00:50:35.550
Why?
00:50:35.789 --> 00:50:36.590
It just worked.
00:50:36.909 --> 00:50:41.630
I was still miserable and not happy, but I wasn't having panic attacks or anything anymore.
00:50:41.789 --> 00:50:42.110
Right.
00:50:42.269 --> 00:50:43.389
Uh it was brilliant.
00:50:43.869 --> 00:50:50.829
Always recommend speak to the professionals, but the drugs aren't the cure, it's your lifestyle to change once you can.
00:50:50.909 --> 00:50:52.990
I was gonna say that we've spoken previously.
00:50:53.150 --> 00:51:01.630
If you potentially, I mean, this again is hindsight, if you'd have had the regular training that I don't think it would have ever been an issue.
00:51:02.110 --> 00:51:02.909
Yeah, that's what I mean.
00:51:02.990 --> 00:51:04.190
You don't think it would have ever been an issue?
00:51:04.349 --> 00:51:05.550
No, I don't think so.
00:51:05.710 --> 00:51:08.990
Uh, because I'd still be competing, so all my competitions stopped.
00:51:09.150 --> 00:51:16.429
I had a couple of fights where I couldn't do any of the proper training, and I was crap in the ring, just mentally not there and being beaten by people I should have.
00:51:18.190 --> 00:51:18.750
I think so, yeah.
00:51:18.909 --> 00:51:22.349
Because of my identity was I fight and I'd I fight good.
00:51:22.429 --> 00:51:24.750
Yeah, and yeah, it wasn't happening anymore.
00:51:24.990 --> 00:51:37.150
Yeah, I think it all But again goes back to that whole thing of like we pre both of us preach now, you've got to give yourself a fighting chance, you've got to be looking after your body, sleeping, exercising, stimulating yourself in ways that you need to.
00:51:37.389 --> 00:51:37.949
Yeah.
00:51:38.269 --> 00:51:42.269
But that's again, it's quite an important part of the story you suffering with this.
00:51:42.349 --> 00:51:46.110
That's yeah, and recognising, I guess, that things were missing.
00:51:46.429 --> 00:51:49.309
Because I knew that it was the lack of training anyway.
00:51:49.550 --> 00:51:52.510
You know, even knowing what the problem was didn't really help.
00:51:52.670 --> 00:51:57.869
But I remember I remember driving and thinking I need to crash this van into the side of that bridge just to really that extreme.
00:51:58.110 --> 00:52:08.110
I would never, you know, I would have never done it, but thinking like I also remember leaving my drive at three in the morning to go to jobs and thinking if this is my life, this is fucking shit.
00:52:08.190 --> 00:52:11.070
Yeah, this is what adult working life is like, I don't want it.
00:52:11.230 --> 00:52:12.110
But then sort it out.
00:52:12.510 --> 00:52:19.309
I was lucky with into my whole kind of very fringe suicidal, but very much depressed and anxious life.
00:52:19.470 --> 00:52:26.110
I had the way out, which was which I'm sure you're gonna go on to myself and my missus moved to Australia and I had that date set.
00:52:26.269 --> 00:52:34.110
So there was always originally when I spoke to the doctor said, put me on beta blockers just so I don't have panic attacks, because 2017 we're moving away.
00:52:34.349 --> 00:52:36.030
I'm sure it will be fine.
00:52:36.269 --> 00:52:40.510
Um, so I did have that out, which I guess it's way easier than a lot of people have been.
00:52:40.750 --> 00:52:43.230
And this is where it did, it was quite the change, wasn't it?
00:52:43.470 --> 00:52:51.309
Because when 2017 came, you and Harriet went out, got your working visas, and went out with the initial idea of just what travelling around Australia.
00:52:51.710 --> 00:52:57.470
Travelling around Australia and working, but also looking at potentially making it our permanent home.
00:52:57.789 --> 00:52:59.710
And how did you feel when you stepped off that plane?
00:52:59.949 --> 00:53:01.710
Unbelievably great, instantly.
00:53:01.949 --> 00:53:02.590
Just instantly.
00:53:02.829 --> 00:53:05.389
Instantly, everything was fresh and new.
00:53:05.630 --> 00:53:09.309
It was like scenes from a movie where every all the lighting's perfect.
00:53:09.949 --> 00:53:10.110
Yeah.
00:53:10.429 --> 00:53:20.990
Remember stepping off the plane, we went to Coodie Beach where we first lived, and the pigeons in Australia looked the same apart from they got these like long spikes on the top of their head of feathers.
00:53:21.630 --> 00:53:22.909
Everything's better here.
00:53:23.150 --> 00:53:23.789
Even the pigeons.
00:53:24.269 --> 00:53:29.150
Look at that haircut and yet instant relief straight away.
00:53:29.869 --> 00:53:33.230
Did you come off the antidepressants and stuff?
00:53:33.550 --> 00:53:35.550
So I was supposed to finish the course that I was on.
00:53:35.789 --> 00:53:37.949
Come around, they they gave me loads of pills.
00:53:38.110 --> 00:53:38.510
Oh really?
00:53:38.670 --> 00:53:39.949
And then some to take over there.
00:53:40.110 --> 00:53:41.710
So you've got to finish.
00:53:42.110 --> 00:53:47.949
I was still taking them, and then I realised every time I took them, I started getting anxious again.
00:53:48.030 --> 00:53:58.590
So I got to the point where I, yeah, so this is yeah, when I didn't need them anymore, I guess that's then they made you because the side effects of searchroline is anxiety, which is great for an anti-anxiety drug.
00:53:59.230 --> 00:53:59.389
Okay.
00:53:59.630 --> 00:54:01.389
So I was taking them and feeling really bad.
00:54:01.630 --> 00:54:06.510
I was like, I'm just gonna take one every other day and that worked for a bit, and then I started feeling bad again.
00:54:06.670 --> 00:54:09.389
I'm gonna take half every other day and then just came off and I was fine.
00:54:09.710 --> 00:54:10.429
That was that.
00:54:10.670 --> 00:54:15.309
So that new stimulus and change of new environment.
00:54:15.789 --> 00:54:21.710
Again, I think the a whole where I've always liked to learn things, now I was learning a whole life.
00:54:21.949 --> 00:54:29.389
I need to one again with my wife making me much more of a driven discipline to a point bloke.
00:54:29.630 --> 00:54:31.630
Go get yourself a job, you fat loser.
00:54:32.909 --> 00:54:35.550
As I say, because I mean you moved over there, Harriet's a nurse, isn't she?
00:54:35.710 --> 00:54:37.789
So she walked straight into a job, presumably.
00:54:38.190 --> 00:54:41.949
I said to her before we went over, I'm not doing anything apart from boxing coaching.
00:54:42.030 --> 00:54:44.429
That's what I want to wrangle my full-time job to be.
00:54:44.590 --> 00:54:45.789
And we'll give it a couple of months.
00:54:45.949 --> 00:54:48.750
If I don't find anything, then I'll do like a bar job or something.
00:54:48.909 --> 00:54:53.230
And manage to get a job in boxing coaching straight away.
00:54:53.550 --> 00:54:54.030
How?
00:54:54.429 --> 00:54:56.110
Being an absolute legend.
00:54:56.349 --> 00:54:59.470
And so modest as it being full of bullshit.
00:55:00.750 --> 00:55:07.389
Walking around the city, looking for things, going into boxing gyms and training, meeting some people and this and that.
00:55:07.550 --> 00:55:11.869
I saw a gym as I was on a bus journey, which was a chain at the time.
00:55:12.030 --> 00:55:16.349
I called up, they didn't have any work, they recommended somewhere else in Bondi Junction.
00:55:16.670 --> 00:55:19.710
Yeah, got the job, did the interview, got the job for four hours a week.
00:55:19.869 --> 00:55:22.190
Is this PTing or boxing coaching?
00:55:22.429 --> 00:55:27.710
It was part circuit training, part boxing coaching, and to start with, you weren't allowed to PT.
00:55:28.110 --> 00:55:30.349
So it was just pay per hour, you're in there.
00:55:30.510 --> 00:55:33.070
So I was in there four hours a week, I was getting paid four hours a week.
00:55:33.150 --> 00:55:35.070
Very quickly, they realised I knew what I was doing.
00:55:35.710 --> 00:55:40.590
Had you get everything, obviously, before you came, you realised that you were a better punch and then you were a kicker.
00:55:41.309 --> 00:55:46.030
Before you left for Australia, was boxing more of a dominance then of you of you sort of.
00:55:46.349 --> 00:55:49.869
Yeah, I'd fizzled out the I was still at the kickboxing gym.
00:55:50.030 --> 00:55:53.789
They were flirting with the idea of getting their amateur boxing licenses.
00:55:54.030 --> 00:55:54.670
Oh, I see, okay.
00:55:54.829 --> 00:55:57.550
So I was going to do that, which never quite materialised, which was fine.
00:55:57.710 --> 00:56:03.949
I was doing white collar boxing in the meantime, and I was just sparring all the people who were trying to kick me with just my hands.
00:56:04.110 --> 00:56:05.309
So it's fine.
00:56:05.630 --> 00:56:05.949
Okay.
00:56:06.590 --> 00:56:16.510
So so you head out to Australia, you find this gym, and you said the minute you hit the bag in the gym, the bloke was like, Oh, yeah, that was yeah.
00:56:16.590 --> 00:56:20.510
So the first one, the one in Sydney in Bondi, they gave me the job.
00:56:20.670 --> 00:56:28.909
Then we left, we were gonna settle in Sydney, then we went to Melbourne for Christmas, we had more friends in Melbourne anyway, and we just preferred Melbourne's vibe.
00:56:29.070 --> 00:56:33.389
So then I left the Sydney one, found one in Melbourne, and then yeah, had the interview for that.
00:56:33.710 --> 00:56:36.510
Oh, so sorry, so it was in Melbourne that you're just like whacking the bag.
00:56:36.990 --> 00:56:40.190
Injured my back during the interview because again, I was still fat and unfit at this point.
00:56:40.670 --> 00:56:40.990
Oh really?
00:56:41.230 --> 00:56:43.550
Yeah, we'd only been in Australia a couple of months if that.
00:56:43.630 --> 00:56:51.470
So I was doing all this crazy, stupid sled pushing and then hitting the bag, and then doing this and that and this, and I I can't remember what move I did.
00:56:52.190 --> 00:56:53.630
Oh, I think I've got to go mad.
00:56:54.349 --> 00:56:58.429
And yeah, from the first second you hit the bag, I was gonna give you the job.
00:56:59.070 --> 00:56:59.630
Sweet.
00:56:59.789 --> 00:57:00.429
Yeah.
00:57:00.670 --> 00:57:02.510
So what's that like in Melbourne?
00:57:02.670 --> 00:57:11.550
Because it's you said Melbourne's a very different city, it's a big space, but with less people, and your community and where the gym was, you were building this really good Yeah, it's lovely.
00:57:11.710 --> 00:57:18.829
We it was quite an affluent family, small area, Ashbert's called, very nice, but very wealthy.
00:57:19.150 --> 00:57:20.909
The gym was quite new, I think.
00:57:20.990 --> 00:57:22.349
Maybe he'd been there a couple of years.
00:57:22.510 --> 00:57:25.869
And then I joined it, welcomed with open arms by all the members.
00:57:26.110 --> 00:57:27.389
I got on really well.
00:57:27.630 --> 00:57:30.829
He's still a good friend of mine now with the guy who ran it, Simon.
00:57:31.070 --> 00:57:36.670
And then I met another guy, Adam Millgate, there, who now has his own gym in Malvard, who we got on really well.
00:57:36.829 --> 00:57:38.670
He became my main training partner.
00:57:38.990 --> 00:57:39.710
It was great, yeah.
00:57:39.949 --> 00:57:44.990
I could PT there a bit, still bits of circuit training, lots of boxing, which is great fun.
00:57:45.230 --> 00:57:46.829
You doing any music in Australia?
00:57:47.550 --> 00:57:51.309
My music life is now on hold and still on hold now.
00:57:51.710 --> 00:57:55.309
But this is where the boxing becomes a much more dominant feature, isn't it?
00:57:55.630 --> 00:57:56.190
Absolutely.
00:57:56.349 --> 00:57:57.309
Now it's my life.
00:57:57.470 --> 00:57:57.710
Yeah.
00:57:57.949 --> 00:58:02.269
It was always my life to a point, but now it is my own way of paying the bills.
00:58:02.590 --> 00:58:05.150
Building the experience in Australia, that was helpful, right?
00:58:05.389 --> 00:58:05.949
Absolutely.
00:58:06.030 --> 00:58:06.349
Yeah.
00:58:06.590 --> 00:58:08.990
But your intention was to stay in Australia?
00:58:09.230 --> 00:58:14.510
I would have loved it, and I had lots of people offering sponsorships to stay there and all that kind of thing.
00:58:14.670 --> 00:58:17.309
Especially on the leaving party, we had loads of people coming up.
00:58:17.710 --> 00:58:18.670
Oh, if you would have said.
00:58:19.389 --> 00:58:22.590
But my wife, and she was absolutely correct as she normally is.
00:58:22.750 --> 00:58:29.070
The next kind of chapter in our life was marriage and kids, and having that family support here really been beneficial for me.
00:58:29.389 --> 00:58:30.030
Really important, isn't it?
00:58:30.110 --> 00:58:32.590
When you're her family wouldn't have been able to fly over there.
00:58:32.829 --> 00:58:34.990
My dad would never have wanted to fly over there.
00:58:35.150 --> 00:58:39.630
Yeah, and like you say, you're building your young family, you're getting married, all these things.
00:58:40.190 --> 00:58:40.909
Proper adult stuff.
00:58:41.070 --> 00:58:43.550
Proper, yeah, you're a proper big boy now, James.
00:58:43.710 --> 00:58:50.909
You're doing all this stuff, and being around that support network is important, however much it must have been hard to move back from.
00:58:51.710 --> 00:58:54.269
You said you'd you'd built a really good community of people.
00:58:54.829 --> 00:58:56.990
Say your boxing coaching was taken off.
00:58:57.230 --> 00:59:02.269
Yeah, so myself and Adam, we moved to another gym over there.
00:59:02.429 --> 00:59:05.070
Within a year, we made it one of the like hottest boxes.
00:59:05.389 --> 00:59:06.990
The places to be in Melbourne.
00:59:07.070 --> 00:59:08.349
Yeah, we'd smash that place.
00:59:08.750 --> 00:59:14.110
And what didn't you have loads of really cool fighters training to your just loads of cool clients, a couple of fighters?
00:59:14.269 --> 00:59:17.309
I worked at another one as well, where it were just some bizarre.
00:59:17.470 --> 00:59:23.389
Again, the beauty of all combat sports gyms is there are such an eclectic mix of people that are all getting on.
00:59:23.630 --> 00:59:34.750
I don't have people who are working themselves out of poverty or like homelessness and all that, or were still homeless, but coming in and training and mixing with some unbelievable rich elite.
00:59:35.150 --> 00:59:38.670
But no, also that was this where you did stuff with Tony Jeffries came to your place.
00:59:38.909 --> 00:59:40.190
So met Tony Jeffries.
00:59:40.510 --> 00:59:43.230
Tony Jeffries, for anyone who doesn't know, is a British boxer.
00:59:43.550 --> 00:59:55.070
He's um I think he was a bronze medalist or silver medalist in the Olympics, a very gifted amateur boxer, went pros and the only boxer to sell out the Sheffield Arena on his pro debut, which is impossible.
00:59:55.230 --> 00:59:55.949
He did it.
00:59:56.110 --> 01:00:06.990
Uh, had a load of fights, broke his hands, had to retire, and he now has the leading, he had the leading boxing gym in Alley for a while, and now he has the leading online platform for boxing world.
01:00:07.470 --> 01:00:10.750
His YouTube channel and Instagram and social media is massive, isn't it?
01:00:10.909 --> 01:00:11.789
Yeah, great guy.
01:00:11.949 --> 01:00:13.389
Great guy, great advice as well, though.
01:00:13.470 --> 01:00:13.630
Yeah.
01:00:13.710 --> 01:00:14.110
A lot of the time.
01:00:14.429 --> 01:00:17.550
Taught me a lot of things more about the business side than the boxing side.
01:00:17.789 --> 01:00:18.349
Such as.
01:00:18.829 --> 01:00:20.110
Or the the social media.
01:00:20.190 --> 01:00:23.389
I was not on social media at all during all this stuff.
01:00:23.550 --> 01:00:29.230
I had it, my personal Instagram page, which I posted maybe one photo on every six months or seven months.
01:00:29.630 --> 01:00:32.030
And then he was like, You gotta do this, you gotta do this, you gotta do this.
01:00:32.110 --> 01:00:40.429
There was one guy with us when we met him who was already doing it all, and he had clients out of his eyeballs, no advertising or anything, just having a good time.
01:00:40.510 --> 01:00:44.829
And then Tony Jeffreys gave us the blueprint of how to get clients through social media.
01:00:45.070 --> 01:00:46.110
Now that's what I do.
01:00:46.349 --> 01:00:49.309
And then you bought that back, you and Harriet moved back to England.
01:00:50.110 --> 01:00:54.269
At one point, there was a bit of a wobble, like, oh god, I'm gonna have to get a job in Sainsbury's or something again.
01:00:54.349 --> 01:00:56.750
Nothing wrong with that, it's just not for me.
01:00:57.230 --> 01:01:15.869
Bills have got to be paid though, because I thought I've gone from somewhere where they do have a lot of money, Malbourne is a place where there's loads of clients, everyone's willing to spend, you get paid loads in Australia, enough money to have fun and do things as well as save and pay your bills to come back to again a small town, not tons of money.
01:01:16.269 --> 01:01:17.470
Not a huge opportunity as well.
01:01:17.630 --> 01:01:24.190
Not a huge opportunity, and just thinking, oh god, it's not gonna work, I won't be able to do any PT stuff, and that'd be the end of my boxing career.
01:01:24.429 --> 01:01:26.269
Straight to being miserable.
01:01:27.710 --> 01:01:29.710
Was that quite a daunting prospect in some of the things?
01:01:29.869 --> 01:01:31.309
To start with, yes.
01:01:31.470 --> 01:01:36.510
But then again, I was just chatting to I've got friends who would do it who PT and all that at the time.
01:01:36.590 --> 01:01:39.470
And well, if they can do it, then I can do it.
01:01:39.630 --> 01:01:41.949
Not that they're like not that they're morons or anything like that.
01:01:42.110 --> 01:01:48.909
No, not that, but obviously with your experience that you've had in Australia, the business side of things, Tony Jeffrey, social media.
01:01:49.070 --> 01:01:52.670
Are you thinking come back and make this a thing?
01:01:52.909 --> 01:01:56.190
Yeah, exactly the same attitude with when we went to Australia.
01:01:56.349 --> 01:02:01.230
I'm gonna make it my full-time job, whether I have to get a part-time job, wants to do it or what.
01:02:01.630 --> 01:02:04.590
And this is where you start doing the PT in for Yeah.
01:02:04.750 --> 01:02:07.869
I don't know if I should name a household name, the gym group in the UK.
01:02:08.670 --> 01:02:10.829
You're a PT within that system, right?
01:02:11.150 --> 01:02:11.710
Brilliant.
01:02:11.949 --> 01:02:14.829
What does that look like for you?
01:02:15.070 --> 01:02:16.349
Working in retail.
01:02:16.670 --> 01:02:18.590
Is that essentially my first shift?
01:02:18.750 --> 01:02:19.309
Got the job.
01:02:19.470 --> 01:02:27.070
The guy who ran the place, brilliant dude, very, very nice, very knowledgeable PT, and gave me really good vibes going in there on my first interview.
01:02:27.470 --> 01:02:30.429
Went in there, need a job, done all this, blah, blah, blah.
01:02:30.670 --> 01:02:31.710
Interview this day.
01:02:31.869 --> 01:02:33.789
Went there, met him, and oh yeah, perfect.
01:02:34.030 --> 01:02:35.550
Then had my first shift.
01:02:35.789 --> 01:02:40.670
You have to work for them for 12 hours a week, which pays your rent, which is another reason I went there.
01:02:40.750 --> 01:02:43.949
There wasn't an actual handing over of cash that I didn't have.
01:02:44.590 --> 01:02:47.070
I'm always happy to give, yeah, I'm happy to give my time.
01:02:47.230 --> 01:02:50.510
So give your time, pay your rent, and then blah, blah, blah.
01:02:50.670 --> 01:02:56.670
And my time for the first shift was spent there talking to people who didn't want to be spoken to, cleaning, walking around.
01:02:56.909 --> 01:02:59.550
I couldn't say fucklebugger, which I was so used to.
01:02:59.789 --> 01:03:01.389
Matthew knows what I'm actually liking.
01:03:01.710 --> 01:03:03.949
In person, I was so used to being that person.
01:03:04.190 --> 01:03:05.070
It just wasn't for me.
01:03:05.150 --> 01:03:08.349
I remember going home speaking to my wife, saying, hate it.
01:03:08.510 --> 01:03:08.670
Yeah.
01:03:08.829 --> 01:03:09.550
But I need to do it.
01:03:09.630 --> 01:03:13.150
It was a necessary evil, but like that's this isn't my vibe of man.
01:03:13.630 --> 01:03:19.389
And this is where sooner or later we're getting close to the bit where you met you were so lucky you got to meet me.
01:03:19.789 --> 01:03:20.429
Yes.
01:03:20.750 --> 01:03:21.630
So lucky.
01:03:22.190 --> 01:03:30.110
Yeah, so I found a gym that was much more my vibe, wrangled a good deal, which worked for everybody involved, met lovely people such as yourself.
01:03:30.269 --> 01:03:33.869
And yeah, fit that place like a glove and loved it again.
01:03:34.030 --> 01:03:37.389
Not that I fell out of love with PT or anything, but that was much more.
01:03:37.789 --> 01:03:40.829
When you focus down just on the boxing, you're so much happier, right?
01:03:40.990 --> 01:03:46.990
Yeah, and uh it's niche, so it just gives me a bit of edge in uh an area around here where there are a lot of PTs and gyms.
01:03:47.150 --> 01:03:54.590
It's a boxing coach, but also a boxing coach who knows what they're doing, which again is niche in the boxing coach world as well.
01:03:55.389 --> 01:03:56.030
Yeah.
01:03:56.269 --> 01:04:01.630
So for the next five years, we built our friendship and we did working and doing stuff.
01:04:01.710 --> 01:04:04.510
And I suppose, is this over the time where COVID?
01:04:04.990 --> 01:04:07.389
Yeah, so yeah, we came back end of 2019.
01:04:07.630 --> 01:04:08.829
I walked straight into COVID.
01:04:09.150 --> 01:04:12.590
Oh, well, got straight into the gym group, then left the gym group and started at the gym.
01:04:12.670 --> 01:04:15.949
I was at NickFit uh 2020, January 2020.
01:04:16.110 --> 01:04:17.470
And then when did COVID happen?
01:04:17.710 --> 01:04:17.869
March.
01:04:18.909 --> 01:04:21.230
Yeah, so March lost my job.
01:04:21.389 --> 01:04:25.230
Yeah, and I hadn't been anywhere long enough to claim any money off the government or anything like that.
01:04:25.309 --> 01:04:26.670
So I had a retainer off my wife.
01:04:26.829 --> 01:04:27.070
Really?
01:04:27.230 --> 01:04:27.789
It's brilliant.
01:04:28.110 --> 01:04:29.789
But here's your 200 pounds for this month.
01:04:29.949 --> 01:04:30.909
Oh bless her.
01:04:31.789 --> 01:04:38.190
Again, because Harriet being a nurse, I saw she's very into it frontline and it's frontline, super stressed, working really hard.
01:04:38.429 --> 01:04:45.789
For a minute, we had to live in separate houses because obviously we came back to live with our parents because we don't have prompt to hear it.
01:04:46.190 --> 01:04:52.349
My parents live on the same land as my sister and brother-in-law, um, and they were immunocompromised.
01:04:52.510 --> 01:04:55.230
So they didn't want Harriet there if she was in hospitals.
01:04:55.309 --> 01:04:55.630
Oh god.
01:04:55.869 --> 01:04:57.550
So she was at her mum and dad's, and I was at mine.
01:04:57.630 --> 01:04:57.949
Oh no.
01:04:58.269 --> 01:05:02.190
I was doing again with the social media beast and Tony Jeffrey's advice.
01:05:02.349 --> 01:05:06.990
I was doing three online classes for free a day on Instagram and all that, which worked really well.
01:05:07.150 --> 01:05:11.309
Had some people then doing video call PT, which was paying some bills.
01:05:11.550 --> 01:05:16.909
Can't remember when they lifted the thing so you could do one-to-one PT outside and then hit the ground moving.
01:05:17.150 --> 01:05:21.309
Yeah, I remember lots of those, you doing lots of pad work in the park and all those sorts of things.
01:05:21.470 --> 01:05:22.110
Yeah, it's brilliant.
01:05:22.269 --> 01:05:22.829
Loved it.
01:05:22.990 --> 01:05:29.869
Most people have half an hour with me, some hours, but I'd be go to the park for six, maybe have someone at eight, shadow box and all that.
01:05:29.949 --> 01:05:32.829
And then my next person would come in and I'd just have a really staggered day.
01:05:32.909 --> 01:05:34.590
But are you back to playing music now?
01:05:34.670 --> 01:05:38.110
You're back home and you've No, not even just as a hobby.
01:05:38.349 --> 01:05:43.230
Every now and again I'll noodle on the guitar for a little bit and think, God, I'm awful and put it away.
01:05:43.389 --> 01:05:46.190
Or I'll get it out and play chords for my demanding wife.
01:05:46.349 --> 01:05:47.789
Play a Britney Spears song.
01:05:48.030 --> 01:05:49.150
I'll play a Britney Spears song song.
01:05:49.230 --> 01:05:50.510
So Britney Spears song.
01:05:50.670 --> 01:05:51.630
Or I'll get out the guitar.
01:05:54.670 --> 01:05:56.110
I like Britney Spears, to be fair.
01:05:56.269 --> 01:05:58.670
Max Martin, a genius songwriter, wrote all that stuff.
01:05:58.750 --> 01:05:59.150
I like that.
01:05:59.230 --> 01:06:04.510
And then I'll play some songs for my daughter who just puts her hands all over the string and steals my plectrum.
01:06:04.829 --> 01:06:06.030
Fair enough.
01:06:06.750 --> 01:06:11.389
So this is where we start needing to talk about you going, I've got bigger plans for this.
01:06:11.550 --> 01:06:16.190
I don't want to be a Would you say this is where we start talking about the creativity?
01:06:16.750 --> 01:06:17.389
Potentially.
01:06:18.190 --> 01:06:26.190
Well, there's there's creativity in what you've done after leaving the gym because you've wanted bigger and better things and you've started the jab lab.
01:06:26.349 --> 01:06:32.990
You've built a brand, you've built a social media platform, you've built a gym, you've built a great team of people that come to the gym.
01:06:33.389 --> 01:06:49.150
Even before that, part of the Mad scientist aspect of being a PT is if you're good at it, you develop individual plans and progressions for each individual client, which is really hard to do for a contact sport where you're not allowed to make contact with people because of COVID.
01:06:50.030 --> 01:06:51.710
Or you create a problem solving with that.
01:06:51.869 --> 01:07:00.110
Creating drills, which this all this stuff is where I'm and in Australia, where I really knuckled down and started being disciplined, and I need to get better at all of this.
01:07:00.190 --> 01:07:01.309
So I've got to actually work.
01:07:01.630 --> 01:07:06.750
It's funny because there is this weird, there's an underlying level of discipline that runs through your whole life.
01:07:06.829 --> 01:07:10.349
But then there's also this like fuck that, I don't want to do that.
01:07:10.829 --> 01:07:13.550
Yeah, that and that's where I don't want to do that, but I've got to do that.
01:07:13.710 --> 01:07:15.869
Health and safety courses, this and that.
01:07:16.030 --> 01:07:19.869
And even in my own training, my own training was very much free and easy.
01:07:20.110 --> 01:07:24.590
And then what now because I've got to be the best in the room for the coaching.
01:07:24.829 --> 01:07:34.349
I need perfect jabs, perfect crosses, I need to shadow box with this and make a methodical, strategic way of getting better myself, which then went into my coaching.
01:07:34.510 --> 01:07:37.630
That's how I coach people, and yeah, it's because it is different.
01:07:37.869 --> 01:07:43.470
I mean, a fun fact, little known fact about me, but I was once an instructor with registered with the British Combat Association as well.
01:07:43.550 --> 01:07:50.110
So it's not all like you can be a great boxer fighter, but coaching it is like I didn't have until I started doing that.
01:07:50.190 --> 01:07:54.670
I was like, oh, you've got to know about health and safety, heart problems, medical things.
01:07:54.990 --> 01:07:55.710
Risk assessment.
01:07:56.829 --> 01:07:59.309
Like that, like we are so not risk assessment people.
01:07:59.710 --> 01:08:00.670
Yes, I am, I've got a qual.
01:08:00.990 --> 01:08:15.550
But yeah, obviously with the jab lab, you're fully insurance and risk assessment up, but it's there's a whole other level to being a coach than just knowing how to throw a jab, throw a cross, throw, you know, in my case, punch someone in the throat and gouge out the eyeballs.
01:08:15.710 --> 01:08:16.670
Gouge out the eyeballs.
01:08:16.909 --> 01:08:17.069
Yeah.
01:08:17.309 --> 01:08:18.189
Yeah, absolutely.
01:08:18.349 --> 01:08:21.710
And lots of really excellent fighters are terrible coaches.
01:08:21.949 --> 01:08:29.630
Did you find that crossover a little bit tricky, bearing in mind you think I was always a better coach than looking back, always a better coach than fighter?
01:08:29.949 --> 01:08:35.789
The intricacies, the health and safety, the risk is because it's like it's all the stuff that you didn't like at uni, the boring stuff.
01:08:35.949 --> 01:08:38.989
I've got to learn this because that's the way they do it, or admin.
01:08:39.389 --> 01:08:40.909
I hate computers.
01:08:41.550 --> 01:08:43.710
But that just shows the want that you have.
01:08:43.949 --> 01:08:53.789
So the Christmas before the jab lab opened, I got all the gym ready with the painting and getting it to look how I wanted to look, and getting the branded gloves and all their stuff and all that.
01:08:53.869 --> 01:08:55.869
And then my Christmas was spent doing admin.
01:08:56.109 --> 01:08:58.270
But again, it was boring, but it I had to do it.
01:08:58.350 --> 01:09:00.029
And I wanted, isn't it?
01:09:00.109 --> 01:09:04.029
Yeah, I wanted to do it to get it all ready and it'd be legitimate and no stone and turned.
01:09:04.109 --> 01:09:05.390
I need this and I need that.
01:09:05.470 --> 01:09:06.350
And it was great after doing it.
01:09:06.829 --> 01:09:08.670
How did it feel opening your own gym?
01:09:08.909 --> 01:09:09.550
I don't know.
01:09:09.789 --> 01:09:11.310
Oh, you're gonna be on blasé again.
01:09:11.390 --> 01:09:11.789
You must be.
01:09:11.949 --> 01:09:13.069
I'm a blasé man.
01:09:13.230 --> 01:09:15.310
You're not there's a sense of achievement and stuff like that.
01:09:15.470 --> 01:09:17.069
Yeah, but I always want the next thing.
01:09:17.149 --> 01:09:25.789
So now I opened it with I'm gonna open this gym, uh, and I'd some of my clients, my one-to-one clients, came straight into members.
01:09:26.510 --> 01:09:29.230
Then I brought in some members before it even opened in January.
01:09:29.310 --> 01:09:33.789
So I knew I was coming into a somewhat populated class environment.
01:09:34.189 --> 01:09:38.750
So it's like, right, now what I've got to do is push on, so I've got so many members that I need the next place.
01:09:38.909 --> 01:09:39.869
That's where I'm at now.
01:09:39.949 --> 01:09:41.230
So it was great opening my gym.
01:09:41.310 --> 01:09:42.909
And I love, I absolutely love it.
01:09:43.069 --> 01:09:55.470
I love when it's slowly becoming like uh more so seeing everyone make friends, so like you making friends with this person, holding pads for that, and then seeing that people are actually taking stuff on board and enough so that they can coach.
01:09:55.630 --> 01:09:57.149
Should we talk a little bit about that then?
01:09:57.230 --> 01:10:00.670
Because we have got, we are very lucky, we've got a wiki community at the gym.
01:10:01.310 --> 01:10:04.909
But we're all very what's the best way to word this, different.
01:10:05.390 --> 01:10:19.470
Yeah, that too, but there's also that camaraderie, the support network, the place to talk, a place to decompress, a place to it's amazing how fast you forget your troubles when someone's trying to punch you in the face sort of thing.
01:10:19.949 --> 01:10:28.189
So we've got a member, so I this kid's only been a member of the gym for a few months, but I've sparred with him now 20 rounds, if not more.
01:10:28.430 --> 01:10:34.750
Me and him will already have a very strong and different relationship to people I haven't sparred because we have now pushed each other.
01:10:34.909 --> 01:10:40.430
It's nothing like, oh macho, but just I've seen where he breaks and he he hasn't seen where I break.
01:10:40.750 --> 01:10:41.949
No, no one ever has.
01:10:42.189 --> 01:10:45.149
But yeah, you've it's why it's such a special environment as well.
01:10:45.310 --> 01:10:54.989
The training classic stuff is lovely and really, really good, and everyone helps each other, and you're breaking physically because of being tired and all that, but you don't really break mentally.
01:10:55.069 --> 01:10:58.350
Whereas to then go the next level, it's even better.
01:10:58.590 --> 01:11:05.390
You might be sparring with someone, and something happens that just catch you off guard, and you'll have an emotional breakdown, which happens all the time.
01:11:05.550 --> 01:11:06.590
There are so many.
01:11:06.750 --> 01:11:10.829
My whole sparring career, including myself, has always tears and breakdowns.
01:11:10.989 --> 01:11:27.310
But then the person that's just beat the crap out of you is gonna pick you back up and like, no, no, come on, you've got to get on with it, and they're gonna push you enough, whether it's to just keep beating you, but with encouragement, or whether it is a full like, look, just relax, it doesn't matter, we'll get back to it and have an actual debrief.
01:11:27.470 --> 01:11:34.590
Whatever you need, they'll do it, and then that can write some of my best friends are the the the murderers row I mentioned earlier, Matt, James Winsper.
01:11:34.989 --> 01:11:42.510
I can go talk to them, and we just know each other more, and like times never pass, we've always and there is something about that, isn't it?
01:11:42.590 --> 01:11:56.430
We've mentioned it before the humbling element of walking into a combat gym where you might think you're the big I am, yeah, but someone two stone lighter than you absolutely batters you, or you batter someone that's much heavier or whatever than you.
01:11:56.590 --> 01:11:58.909
Yeah, there's a levelling bit to it, isn't it?
01:11:58.989 --> 01:12:03.069
And we always we'll talk a bit about your social media, but we get it all the time, don't we, on your YouTube channel.
01:12:03.470 --> 01:12:06.350
People are live and they're going, I could beat you up and I could do that.
01:12:06.430 --> 01:12:12.350
And your response is you know where the gym is, come down because I've been beaten up before and I'll be beaten up again.
01:12:12.430 --> 01:12:13.069
I don't mind.
01:12:13.390 --> 01:12:14.670
And there is something in that, isn't it?
01:12:14.909 --> 01:12:15.390
Yes, absolutely.
01:12:15.710 --> 01:12:19.710
A lot about fighting, combat sports, discipline.
01:12:20.109 --> 01:12:22.029
But we talk a lot about that, don't we?
01:12:22.189 --> 01:12:27.149
In the gym and out of the gym as friends, about it's that classic Mike Tyson thing, is it?
01:12:27.230 --> 01:12:29.390
Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the face.
01:12:29.630 --> 01:12:30.189
Big time.
01:12:30.430 --> 01:12:37.550
And that there's something about that humility and that levelling aspect of combat sports and being put under that pressure.
01:12:37.869 --> 01:12:41.869
Understanding yourself when you're put under physical, physical pressure.
01:12:42.029 --> 01:12:42.350
Yeah.
01:12:42.590 --> 01:12:47.470
Is different to just going, oh, I'm quite strong mentally, I've got some mental fortitude.
01:12:47.869 --> 01:12:53.869
It's very different, like you say, when you're exhausted, you're under stress, someone's trying to punch you in the face or repeatedly.
01:12:54.189 --> 01:12:55.869
You do do the shark tank stuff.
01:12:56.029 --> 01:13:01.949
In my testing, I had to fight people for 15 minutes just relentlessly, relentlessly, and you never know what the time's gonna be.
01:13:02.029 --> 01:13:02.270
Yeah.
01:13:02.430 --> 01:13:07.069
And you're four minutes in, you think, God, this got to be nearly over, but you're not even close.
01:13:07.310 --> 01:13:10.670
That holding a mirror up to yourself in a way, of course.
01:13:10.829 --> 01:13:12.909
Well, I mean you can do what you're capable of.
01:13:13.230 --> 01:13:14.270
It's probably why I like it.
01:13:14.350 --> 01:13:26.909
Again, with always being selfish with my time, boxing's a selfish sport, especially you do have a team and everything around you, it's all about you, how good you are, how you deal with this, how you can learn, and it's giving you very violently and in an upfront way.
01:13:27.149 --> 01:13:29.069
You are shit here, deal with it.
01:13:29.230 --> 01:13:34.109
And you can either, oh no, I'm just gonna avoid that, or you can go, right?
01:13:34.350 --> 01:13:36.510
I keep getting smashed in the face with this technique.
01:13:36.590 --> 01:13:38.109
How am I gonna defend that technique?
01:13:38.189 --> 01:13:39.710
And what are the fun ways of doing it?
01:13:39.869 --> 01:13:50.909
Or whether it's just one of the best ones is fitness, the amount of fighters who you know at the level that the gym's at, they can spar and all that, but they're still not fit enough to fight, but they won't work their fitness.
01:13:51.149 --> 01:13:52.510
Their mirror's being held up there.
01:13:52.670 --> 01:13:56.670
Look, after three or four rounds, you're struggling, go running because it's not comfy.
01:13:56.750 --> 01:14:02.430
Whereas sparring and losing in sparring might be comfy because it's fun to actually go out and then do the rest.
01:14:03.470 --> 01:14:12.430
And there is a massive difference between being fit and being fit while someone's to try to punch you in the face, knee you in the bottom, whatever that's and then you learn the flip side of it.
01:14:12.590 --> 01:14:19.789
So I'm not fit now compared to when I was fighting, but I can still last it in the in there for in there putting over there, like they know where the gym is.
01:14:19.949 --> 01:14:20.510
In the gym.
01:14:20.750 --> 01:14:22.029
I can still spar for ages.
01:14:22.189 --> 01:14:28.750
If I'm not being if I'm sparring you guys, again, it's just a an experience difference.
01:14:29.069 --> 01:14:30.750
I can spar all day.
01:14:31.390 --> 01:14:37.630
Is that because you've got like you say, that experience difference allows you to conserve energy where you can, I can't push, yeah.
01:14:37.949 --> 01:14:44.430
This person's not moving around so much, so I maybe I don't have to be as quick on my feet, I can suck in some air or all that.
01:14:44.590 --> 01:14:45.069
Absolutely.
01:14:45.230 --> 01:14:46.829
And again, that's the other side of it.
01:14:46.909 --> 01:14:47.470
You're learning.
01:14:47.869 --> 01:14:48.909
Yeah, let's talk about that.
01:14:48.989 --> 01:15:00.189
What do you think some of the things that you can take from boxing combat sports into everyday life that people maybe don't think about, knowing that you're not as fragile as I think you are.
01:15:00.590 --> 01:15:01.149
That's a big thing.
01:15:01.470 --> 01:15:02.750
Say more, but that's important, I think, isn't it?
01:15:02.989 --> 01:15:05.149
Male fragility is a huge issue.
01:15:05.390 --> 01:15:06.909
So I think nowadays more than ever.
01:15:07.069 --> 01:15:10.590
But again, it all blokes think they can fight.
01:15:10.829 --> 01:15:11.550
They can't.
01:15:11.710 --> 01:15:11.949
Yeah.
01:15:12.109 --> 01:15:15.710
Um, you learn there that you can't, and that it doesn't matter.
01:15:15.869 --> 01:15:22.590
If you put the work in, you can learn how to fight, but someone who's trained comes up to you on the street, they're gonna batter you and make you feel like a little bitch.
01:15:22.829 --> 01:15:26.430
Does this go back to our favourite Miyamoto quote?
01:15:26.829 --> 01:15:29.949
Better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.
01:15:30.189 --> 01:15:30.750
Exactly that.
01:15:30.909 --> 01:15:32.029
What does that mean to you?
01:15:32.189 --> 01:15:40.510
It's quite self-explanatory, but I think it's For me, I've never got into a fight outside of the combat sports itself because I've never needed to.
01:15:40.750 --> 01:15:44.909
I've never even felt violent apart from one time which I didn't do anything.
01:15:45.230 --> 01:15:47.149
Makes my often find that, don't you?
01:15:47.230 --> 01:15:51.390
It's like the minute I got my qualification, I didn't want to fight anybody.
01:15:51.630 --> 01:15:59.310
I am a lover, I'm a pacifist, I will use my verbal jujitsu to get out of a fight rather than using any skill or absolutely whatever.
01:15:59.390 --> 01:16:07.310
It's and do you think that puts people when you know the skills that you've got, do you think that makes you more violence avoidant almost?
01:16:07.470 --> 01:16:13.470
Yeah, I've had people start on me for loads of stupid reasons in the pub and whatnot, people being drunk, and I've just nah.
01:16:13.789 --> 01:16:14.430
Do you have the thing?
01:16:14.510 --> 01:16:17.789
I mean, when I did my qualification, everyone was like, What would you do if I did this?
01:16:18.430 --> 01:16:28.989
And I'm like, as my mate, I can't really show you because I need to push your Adam's apple back into your throat, your testicles up into your mine I'd just done even I'll just I'd jab you faster than you could believe.
01:16:29.230 --> 01:16:29.869
Yeah, exactly.
01:16:29.949 --> 01:16:30.989
Yeah, you can't.
01:16:31.230 --> 01:16:31.789
But did you have that?
01:16:31.869 --> 01:16:37.310
Because then again, still with ego, everyone's like, Oh, I could do this to you and you can do this, and I'm like, okay.
01:16:37.630 --> 01:16:41.149
Yeah, but there are no rules in the street, which means there are no rules for me to do that.
01:16:41.310 --> 01:16:41.710
Yeah, exactly.
01:16:42.029 --> 01:16:42.670
Yeah, you're fool.
01:16:42.909 --> 01:16:46.029
Because that's what I must admit I found that hard when I came to boxing.
01:16:46.750 --> 01:16:46.989
Rules.
01:16:47.230 --> 01:16:47.630
Rules.
01:16:48.109 --> 01:16:50.430
Because it is a gentleman's sport, isn't it?
01:16:50.590 --> 01:16:52.670
It's violent chess, essentially, isn't it?
01:16:52.989 --> 01:16:53.710
Absolutely violent chess.
01:16:53.869 --> 01:16:55.550
It's called the sweet science for a reason.
01:16:55.710 --> 01:16:57.550
Exactly that's martial art.
01:16:57.789 --> 01:17:00.350
And someone also said to me, Goes, Oh, why are you having a boxing coach on?
01:17:00.430 --> 01:17:15.069
I said, Well not only because you've got this musical background which levels the creativity, but this person couldn't quite grab the fact that fighting is one of the most creative things you can do because you have got to think in split seconds.
01:17:15.470 --> 01:17:23.069
So this is going back to when we were talking about the bass, and that you've got fewer options to melt people's faces with because it's four strings.
01:17:23.710 --> 01:17:27.789
In boxing melt people's faces really, so carry on.
01:17:28.430 --> 01:17:37.630
In boxing, the rule set is you've got so many constraints that you are allowed to punch, and only to the front and side of the head and the front and side of the body, and that's it.
01:17:38.270 --> 01:17:43.869
So everybody knows the score, and when you get to a level, everyone's practiced the same thing.
01:17:44.270 --> 01:17:47.310
You need to then all right, what's off piece that's gonna work for me?
01:17:47.390 --> 01:17:54.109
When you look at Muhammad Ali, the way he defends is so out of pocket that nobody really did it.
01:17:54.350 --> 01:17:55.470
Hands down and leaning back.
01:17:55.630 --> 01:17:56.270
What's going on there?
01:17:56.350 --> 01:17:57.069
That's creative.
01:17:57.390 --> 01:18:02.829
Emmanuel Burton or Emmanuel Augustus, to change his name halfway through his career, would dance in the ring.
01:18:03.230 --> 01:18:06.670
He'd be literally dancing in the ring was beat the fuck out of people.
01:18:06.909 --> 01:18:11.869
Super creative, but no one could match his creativity in the ring because it's so weird, it's not what you do.
01:18:11.949 --> 01:18:13.149
Everyone's used to the same thing.
01:18:13.310 --> 01:18:16.189
Roy Jones Jr., so fast, so creative.
01:18:16.430 --> 01:18:19.069
Which do you think is more creative, attack or defense?
01:18:19.390 --> 01:18:20.989
Yin and yang together, sir.
01:18:21.149 --> 01:18:22.270
Or balance, beautiful.
01:18:22.510 --> 01:18:25.149
You can't, yeah, it's not attack and defense, it's all it.
01:18:25.630 --> 01:18:28.109
This is uh we're getting into the philosophy of fighting now.
01:18:28.350 --> 01:18:28.909
This is what I want.
01:18:29.069 --> 01:18:30.989
This is because you and I have that connection.
01:18:31.069 --> 01:18:33.710
We're into the philosophy, into the ideas behind it.
01:18:34.029 --> 01:18:38.109
You need to learn how to attack and defend at the same time, and that's a huge problem for everyone.
01:18:38.189 --> 01:18:40.270
Bam bum bum bam bang, stand and watch.
01:18:40.750 --> 01:18:45.710
No, but and while you're hitting, you're moving your feet, moving your head, which comes in time and takes practice.
01:18:45.789 --> 01:18:50.670
But again, the creative side of it is how can I every time I do this, I'm getting hit with that.
01:18:50.829 --> 01:18:53.789
What do I need to do to not get hit by that?
01:18:53.949 --> 01:18:56.029
I'll try this, I've done that, I've been hit by that.
01:18:56.109 --> 01:18:58.270
So what's the next how am I gonna well no?
01:18:58.350 --> 01:19:00.350
I've never seen anyone do this and then do that.
01:19:00.430 --> 01:19:01.550
Oh, that's working for me.
01:19:01.869 --> 01:19:03.630
The learning curve has to be a bit fast.
01:19:03.949 --> 01:19:06.750
Well, unless unless you want to repeatedly get punched in the face, I guess.
01:19:06.829 --> 01:19:08.909
The learning curve has to be a bit faster, mate.
01:19:09.230 --> 01:19:10.270
Yes, and no.
01:19:10.670 --> 01:19:16.109
If you want to just wing it and see where you can go up with naturally, then yeah, it can be fast.
01:19:16.270 --> 01:19:20.350
But if you want to learn and dedicate yourself, this is where all the other stuff comes in.
01:19:20.590 --> 01:19:24.670
You keep getting hit over the top of your jab, so you need to do shadow boxing with your hands up.
01:19:25.310 --> 01:19:27.710
How many of you like shadow box outside of the gym?
01:19:27.869 --> 01:19:28.270
You do.
01:19:28.670 --> 01:19:29.390
That's one.
01:19:29.630 --> 01:19:31.789
Uh again, my structured rounds.
01:19:31.869 --> 01:19:39.149
I'm gonna do 14 rounds of the jab moving in to the left and to the right with my hand, my lead hand high, so no punch over the top.
01:19:39.230 --> 01:19:42.029
Then I'm gonna do it with my lead hand in the middle, then I'm gonna do it in Philichelle.
01:19:42.590 --> 01:19:48.109
But that's quite an interesting aspect of the creativity side of boxing, because in what I did, we call it Red Surf.
01:19:48.189 --> 01:19:49.550
It's again the shadow boxing.
01:19:49.630 --> 01:19:52.430
Essentially, you're imagining being in a fight without being in a fight.
01:19:52.590 --> 01:19:56.829
This person's throwing an elbow, this person's trying to grab me around the throat, this person's throwing a jab.
01:19:56.989 --> 01:19:59.550
So, shadow boxing, you have to be quite creative as well, don't you?
01:19:59.710 --> 01:20:03.390
It's pure imagination, yeah, which is that's your creativity 101.
01:20:03.789 --> 01:20:08.510
Creativity, you've got to be able to imagine someone stood in front of you throwing punches, you blocking them, throwing punches.
01:20:09.149 --> 01:20:09.949
Can't stress it enough.
01:20:10.029 --> 01:20:19.390
If you've shadow boxed the double jab moving to your left a thousand times, when it happens in the fight, oh yeah, and then I'm gonna duck under that punch that I've imagined a million times.
01:20:19.630 --> 01:20:38.430
Again, Tony Jeffries, he would have his fights, and every day leading up to his fight, he would he'd visualize the pre-show warm-up, the walk to the ring, getting into the ring, the touch of gloves, and then the first one or two rounds of the fight, just focus, focus, focus, so that when he does it, it's like I've done it a million times.
01:20:38.510 --> 01:20:45.550
And at our gym, we'd have your music on get into the ring, touch gloves all the time, which is what I do it while I used to do it.
01:20:45.789 --> 01:20:58.510
So you is that because we uh one of our friends did some white collar with you a while ago, and I remember he he burnt himself out pre-fire because his adrenaline was so high and he was pumped up for the walkout and all this sort of stuff.
01:20:58.670 --> 01:21:00.189
By the time he'd done all that, he was dead.
01:21:00.510 --> 01:21:03.310
It's again sparring's very difficult.
01:21:03.550 --> 01:21:08.029
Then the next stage is the fighting, and it's not the fight that's hard, it's everything before.
01:21:08.270 --> 01:21:11.710
You will learn so much again about yourself waiting for a fight.
01:21:11.949 --> 01:21:14.909
You think you're a hard, tough mofo.
01:21:15.069 --> 01:21:17.630
You so yeah, it takes a different mentality, doesn't it?
01:21:17.710 --> 01:21:20.510
To I was used to sleep because otherwise I'd panic my way out of it.
01:21:20.670 --> 01:21:20.909
Really?
01:21:20.989 --> 01:21:21.390
Oh yeah.
01:21:21.710 --> 01:21:24.109
I'm just gonna go have an app and I can sleep.
01:21:24.270 --> 01:21:24.829
Wow.
01:21:25.310 --> 01:21:28.909
Well some of the best fires are some of the calmest under pressure, right?
01:21:29.069 --> 01:21:29.789
Yeah, that's all it is.
01:21:29.869 --> 01:21:30.909
Yeah, cold steel.
01:21:31.149 --> 01:21:31.869
Cold steel.
01:21:32.029 --> 01:21:32.670
Cold steel.
01:21:32.750 --> 01:21:44.430
You can either be uh what's the other you burn bright and fast and then burn out straight away, or you can just be cold steel, whilst you're being fucking you're in the firefight, you're just cool, calm, and collected.
01:21:44.590 --> 01:21:47.710
I say to everyone in there if they're gonna spar and all that, serial killer.
01:21:47.869 --> 01:21:50.670
See, you've done this a million times, it's what you love to do.
01:21:50.829 --> 01:21:52.909
There is no emotional attachment whatsoever.
01:21:52.989 --> 01:21:54.510
I'm gonna punch your face in.
01:21:54.670 --> 01:21:58.829
I've got no no malice in my punches, I've got no violence in my punches, it's just what I do.
01:21:58.989 --> 01:22:00.109
Your face, why?
01:22:00.590 --> 01:22:02.029
So I was that's how I go about it.
01:22:02.189 --> 01:22:07.149
And that's quite hard for anyone that's never done a combat sport or been punched, I'd imagine.
01:22:07.630 --> 01:22:11.470
Even for your first six months to six years, that's hard because you're still gonna get hit by something.
01:22:11.869 --> 01:22:13.949
Oh, we've got to get them back straight out and it's instinct as well.
01:22:14.109 --> 01:22:18.029
So sometimes someone punches you, like, oh, can't really stop this.
01:22:18.109 --> 01:22:18.829
I've just got to punch.
01:22:18.989 --> 01:22:20.109
And that's the yeah, that's the other side.
01:22:20.350 --> 01:22:21.550
Again, control elements.
01:22:21.710 --> 01:22:32.350
This is some of the stuff that I love about the boxing and the fighting that I did, it instills that element of discipline, control, routine sometimes.
01:22:32.670 --> 01:22:43.149
That I think dare I say we're lacking a bit in a look around and I see people that are lacking discipline, lacking moral fortitude, resilience, a lot of these things.
01:22:43.470 --> 01:22:44.829
It's even just something to work for.
01:22:45.149 --> 01:22:47.630
Again, yeah, again, yeah, just a goal, a purpose.
01:22:47.869 --> 01:23:00.109
Yeah, a great part of that gym so far in the first year has been the kids that come in who are waifs and they're starting to become little fuck-ups and now they're getting jobs and they're now they've got something to work for that's quite positive in the gym.
01:23:00.270 --> 01:23:01.550
And we have seen that in the gym, haven't we?
01:23:01.630 --> 01:23:06.510
I'm not going to name any names, but there's some kids that come through and you thought, what the fuck is this kid all about?
01:23:06.590 --> 01:23:06.829
Yeah.
01:23:06.989 --> 01:23:10.270
And a few months later they're they seem to have their heads screwed up a bit more.
01:23:10.510 --> 01:23:11.069
Doing something in it.
01:23:11.310 --> 01:23:14.029
Doing something, they've got a bit more purpose, discipline, focus.
01:23:14.270 --> 01:23:18.430
And the the really young kids who are like just sit at home and go watch TikTok.
01:23:18.590 --> 01:23:18.750
Yeah.
01:23:18.909 --> 01:23:21.390
They're now like, Oh, we've got some great youngsters, haven't we?
01:23:23.949 --> 01:23:27.149
Doing it and you know, yeah, at least switching on a bit.
01:23:27.390 --> 01:23:28.430
Is that part of it for you?
01:23:28.590 --> 01:23:30.350
You want to set an example for it?
01:23:30.510 --> 01:23:38.109
Well, yeah, I mean, I am a boring man anyway, so I don't drink, I don't have hobbies and I work, which I love.
01:23:38.189 --> 01:23:39.630
I wouldn't have it any other way.
01:23:39.789 --> 01:23:51.390
But I also with my training, when it really when I was really trying to get seriously good at boxing with hard work, it was for me, so I can say, you need to do this and this whilst they're doing that.
01:23:51.630 --> 01:23:52.510
Oh, you do it then.
01:23:52.750 --> 01:23:54.350
Okay, and now I can.
01:23:55.069 --> 01:24:02.590
And I I really believe that I need to lead by example to a point, you know, I live a mostly healthy lifestyle.
01:24:02.750 --> 01:24:08.750
And I'm last year I didn't exercise as much as I normally do just because of the gym and a child and all this.
01:24:08.989 --> 01:24:15.310
But as my time becomes freer again as my daughter's getting older and I'm settling into the role there, then I'll go back to it.
01:24:15.470 --> 01:24:22.350
But the skill base I have for boxing and coaching is now ingrained enough where I can't I lead by example.
01:24:22.430 --> 01:24:23.550
So what are you drinking for?
01:24:23.630 --> 01:24:24.829
Oh, you know, it's fun and all that.
01:24:24.989 --> 01:24:25.710
Do you want to fight?
01:24:25.949 --> 01:24:26.510
Yeah.
01:24:26.750 --> 01:24:33.869
I used to go out at 19, 20, 21, 22, then have sober nights out with my own mates because I was having a fight in six months.
01:24:34.109 --> 01:24:34.989
Do you want to win?
01:24:35.630 --> 01:24:37.310
And that's part of the reason why I've got you on.
01:24:37.390 --> 01:24:40.590
Obviously, there is this underlying creativity that runs through your whole story.
01:24:40.750 --> 01:24:44.270
But the podcast is for me about interest in inspiring human beings.
01:24:44.350 --> 01:24:45.470
And this is where you start mate.
01:24:45.630 --> 01:24:47.149
Probably yeah, see, I knew you were gonna do that.
01:24:47.230 --> 01:24:51.310
You're gonna get all I'm gonna make jokes about it and be all silly, but I'm gonna pay you a compliment.
01:24:51.390 --> 01:25:26.189
But you are a hugely inspiring man, you've had an interesting journey, but the inspiration that I see you give others in the gym is one of the reasons I wanted to get you on because I think there's a lot I wouldn't say you're a mentor as such, but like I think there are, especially for the younger guys coming through, seeing what you're doing, seeing how dedicated you are to the gym, to your craft, to your wife, to Penny, to your family, it's an inspiring thing, and it's like good values as a man, I think is something that's very important these days.
01:25:26.510 --> 01:25:28.270
Beaten to me by my father.
01:25:28.590 --> 01:25:28.909
Great.
01:25:28.989 --> 01:25:48.270
I don't, it doesn't matter where it comes from, but I think, like we say, you are uh an influence, and I especially when I see you working with the young guys and young girls, you're inspiring people and you're giving people a skill set that, like we've just said, we've seen people go from beat about the roof, maybe some of them could have led down their fuck-ups.
01:25:48.430 --> 01:25:51.310
Yeah, and they've come in a gym maybe with a bit too much ego.
01:25:51.470 --> 01:26:06.670
Yeah, something that needs addressing, and they're a few months surrounded by you, the other people in the gym, the having that humility element of someone coming in and going, oh shit, that young lad can beat the fuck out of this 44-year-old.
01:26:07.149 --> 01:26:40.909
I think part of it as well is yeah, that you come into the class and loads of people think, you know, you go to a boxing gym and everyone's just and they're at the age, say, like a 19-year-old lad, where I am the Billy Big Ball, so I have to act like this because oh, and all my mates do, and then you come to a gym where there are some seriously good, talented, violent people in there, in there, not violent people, that could rip their heads off joking, chatting, no ego at all, and like having a good time, happy to be vulnerable, happy to coach each other, and like you don't have to wait.
01:26:41.230 --> 01:26:51.470
Because that's that's probably the negative thing that always someone who's never done a combat sport, they they imagine I can't walk into that gym, they're all gonna just be arseholes or meatheads or want to kill me or whatever.
01:26:51.710 --> 01:26:53.390
There, those gyms are out there for sure.
01:26:53.789 --> 01:26:55.069
Most of them are not like that.
01:26:55.149 --> 01:27:02.590
They're all the gyms I've ever been to have been really welcoming and just great, really friendly, everyone on the same level.
01:27:03.149 --> 01:27:05.230
And we've got people in the gym doing it for all different reasons.
01:27:05.310 --> 01:27:10.189
I mean, some of them want to fight, some of them on a weight loss journey, some of them on a just a general fitness.
01:27:13.869 --> 01:27:17.390
And the good thing with all combat sports is you'll never learn it all.
01:27:17.550 --> 01:27:24.350
So once you, you know, or I've learned how to perfect my jab, which you won't, but I've learned how to perfect my jab now.
01:27:24.430 --> 01:27:24.909
What's next?
01:27:24.989 --> 01:27:28.750
There's always a what's next, which is what always keeps me invested in anyway.
01:27:28.829 --> 01:27:34.430
I've never and your creativity is growing now because as we've said before, you've got the social media you're doing a bit more on.
01:27:34.510 --> 01:27:42.029
I know you're gonna make it, but the YouTube channel, I mean I I love it, but the YouTube channel's a bit different, isn't it, than just the Instagram fleet and stuff.
01:27:42.109 --> 01:27:42.989
You enjoy the YouTube channel.
01:27:43.230 --> 01:27:44.109
I like the YouTube a lot more.
01:27:44.430 --> 01:27:45.149
Talk to us a bit more.
01:27:45.470 --> 01:27:47.949
What made you is that off the back of Tony Jeffrey's advice?
01:27:48.029 --> 01:27:51.789
You want all or you want to extend the knowledge that you're passing on?
01:27:51.949 --> 01:27:52.430
Both, yeah.
01:27:52.590 --> 01:27:56.989
I like YouTube because it's long form and I can talk bullshit all day about boxing.
01:27:57.069 --> 01:27:58.909
I can I really can.
01:27:59.069 --> 01:28:00.350
I absolutely can, I love it.
01:28:00.430 --> 01:28:02.829
I've probably edited about three hours out of this already.
01:28:03.069 --> 01:28:07.230
And we can go full nitty-gritty into the absolute minutia of a jab.
01:28:07.550 --> 01:28:10.670
And that's what you can do on YouTube, and there's someone out there that will love that.
01:28:10.829 --> 01:28:11.630
That's what I like about it.
01:28:11.710 --> 01:28:13.069
And then I like the live chats on it.
01:28:13.149 --> 01:28:14.829
Even when I'm getting abused on it, I find it funny.
01:28:14.989 --> 01:28:16.189
Yeah, we've had some fun, haven't we?
01:28:16.909 --> 01:28:22.350
But who we had um oh god, I'm gonna forget his name, but the guide for Reggie Sweet Johnson.
01:28:22.590 --> 01:28:23.550
Reggie Sweets Johnson, yeah.
01:28:23.630 --> 01:28:26.270
He came checking out International Boxing Hall of Fame.
01:28:26.430 --> 01:28:27.869
He was in an era that I loved.
01:28:28.029 --> 01:28:32.829
He was mid eighties to late nineties, and I don't think I'd ever seen him on TV, so I didn't know who he was.
01:28:32.909 --> 01:28:34.029
And I checked him out.
01:28:34.189 --> 01:28:36.909
Bloody hell been in the ring with We've got every favourite boxer I've ever had.
01:28:38.590 --> 01:28:40.829
So me and you are just bumbling around in the world.
01:28:41.149 --> 01:28:46.750
But again, so I knew straight away there's two reasons I knew he was a legit boxer.
01:28:47.069 --> 01:28:53.149
One, the way he was chatting on the live anyone who's talking shit on a boxing live stream isn't a boxer.
01:28:53.390 --> 01:28:54.750
He was respectful straight away.
01:28:54.909 --> 01:29:00.829
He liked watching what we were doing, you know, and like, oh, I'd love to see that boxing still alive, and the younger people who obviously wasn't talking about you.
01:29:01.069 --> 01:29:02.590
I was gonna say, was you watching someone else's video?
01:29:02.750 --> 01:29:03.550
It can't have been us.
01:29:03.949 --> 01:29:04.750
Young people.
01:29:04.989 --> 01:29:05.869
No, I'm still young.
01:29:06.029 --> 01:29:06.909
Yeah, you're still young.
01:29:07.069 --> 01:29:10.109
And then also part two of that is having a name like Sweet.
01:29:10.189 --> 01:29:10.270
Yeah.
01:29:10.430 --> 01:29:11.550
That's a crap fight name.
01:29:11.630 --> 01:29:11.789
Yeah.
01:29:12.350 --> 01:29:14.189
You think you're giving yourself the name?
01:29:14.510 --> 01:29:18.510
I was so mad that we were on a live stream and some world champion boxer Hall of Fame.
01:29:19.149 --> 01:29:21.710
Wasn't that one of those live streams where there's a few thousand people too?
01:29:21.869 --> 01:29:21.949
Yeah.
01:29:22.590 --> 01:29:24.109
Every now and again you'll just get a mad one.
01:29:24.270 --> 01:29:29.869
I had one ages ago now, a couple of thousand people, but everyone was super educated about combat sports.
01:29:29.949 --> 01:29:32.670
So we were all chatting about things start with MMA and involved it.
01:29:32.750 --> 01:29:36.029
And everybody was chiming in with good, positive stuff.
01:29:36.109 --> 01:29:37.390
That's the part of social media that's good.
01:29:37.470 --> 01:29:38.510
And why I like the YouTube.
01:29:38.750 --> 01:29:39.869
And then some Dick Edcom.
01:29:40.189 --> 01:29:42.750
I know where the Jimmy, so I'm gonna come and knock you in.
01:29:42.989 --> 01:29:46.109
We had some guys and he said, I'll be down at this date, at this time.
01:29:46.750 --> 01:29:49.869
I had one um, yeah, I'm two hours away.
01:29:49.949 --> 01:29:51.069
I'll see you on Saturday.
01:29:51.230 --> 01:29:52.189
Joke's on you, kid.
01:29:52.270 --> 01:29:53.149
I don't work weekends.
01:29:54.029 --> 01:29:59.390
But then he I said Google Maps of the Jab Lab, it's Paddington Court, and then he came up.
01:29:59.470 --> 01:30:00.350
Oh, is this the address?
01:30:00.430 --> 01:30:02.270
It's like, yeah, yeah, it's a come down, yeah.
01:30:02.590 --> 01:30:02.909
It's amazing.
01:30:03.310 --> 01:30:06.430
Again, the keyboard warriors who want to think they're tough guys.
01:30:06.670 --> 01:30:08.109
But it's the it's again the fame.
01:30:08.189 --> 01:30:12.029
I mean, everyone has a fragile ego to some point, regardless of gender.
01:30:12.109 --> 01:30:17.069
But he would have been teens, I imagine, and never really done anything.
01:30:17.230 --> 01:30:22.189
I'm not gonna say anything in his life, never done anything humbling or challenging in his life yet.
01:30:22.510 --> 01:30:24.989
So he's oh I'm well, I can be tough too.
01:30:25.230 --> 01:30:27.550
There's a man punching the bag, and I can do that too.
01:30:27.789 --> 01:30:34.109
This is obvious and makes sense to me, but would you advise people to do things that push them out of their comfort zone?
01:30:34.350 --> 01:30:35.630
Yeah, it's an obvious answer for me.
01:30:36.270 --> 01:30:42.029
But I'd always I'd heavily, heavily advise any combat sport, you're gonna learn so much more about yourself.
01:30:42.109 --> 01:30:56.189
Whether you just do it for a year or two and then take what you learn into something else, a combat sport, again, you're gonna be so deflated to build yourself back up and then humbled again and build yourself back up, feel like you're drowning for six months to a year of your training.
01:30:56.350 --> 01:30:57.550
There's there's beauty in that.
01:30:57.789 --> 01:30:58.829
You don't realise until after.
01:30:59.310 --> 01:31:00.189
I'm just fucking shit.
01:31:00.350 --> 01:31:04.350
This you're not, you're doing what everyone else has done, and now they're great at it.
01:31:04.510 --> 01:31:09.630
And then to take that perseverance into whatever you want to do, especially your creative stuff.
01:31:10.029 --> 01:31:15.149
We're surrounded by all this artwork that you've done that you're not going to show to anyone, it's fucking good stuff.
01:31:15.310 --> 01:31:19.550
But then you might think, oh, why have I done that if I can sell it to whoever it doesn't matter because you've done it.
01:31:19.949 --> 01:31:22.510
Drowned for six months doing all this stuff.
01:31:22.590 --> 01:31:23.869
Now you can take what you learn from that.
01:31:24.270 --> 01:31:26.829
There is something to be said in there for do first.
01:31:27.230 --> 01:31:28.189
Yeah, do later.
01:31:28.350 --> 01:31:30.189
Well, that's been quite a lot.
01:31:30.590 --> 01:31:31.310
Never really thought about it.
01:31:31.390 --> 01:31:32.270
I just I did it.
01:31:32.350 --> 01:31:36.189
You know, I just walked into that gym or I just picked up that guitar and then I just started doing this.
01:31:36.350 --> 01:31:41.069
Yeah, again, like you said, but at the time it was just oh you gotta pick that up and I'll go learn that.
01:31:41.149 --> 01:31:41.550
Yeah.
01:31:41.710 --> 01:31:43.949
Now I'm gonna punch that man in the face.
01:31:44.989 --> 01:31:45.550
Yeah.
01:31:45.869 --> 01:31:49.149
Is this me trying to get a nice sound bite out of the podcast?
01:31:49.310 --> 01:31:56.829
What is the one piece of advice from your fight training that you think is the best piece of advice for people to take into it?
01:31:56.909 --> 01:31:59.149
Get amongst it! Yeah, fine.
01:31:59.310 --> 01:32:00.189
It's a great one.
01:32:00.750 --> 01:32:04.829
I think a huge one, really, which is so lame.
01:32:05.310 --> 01:32:10.750
Just again, every fight that I go for, it's always saying, go out there and have fun.
01:32:11.230 --> 01:32:13.069
People don't, people are scared to do that again.
01:32:13.149 --> 01:32:17.949
You you're gonna go out there in front of loads of people, and this is for anything, especially creative stuff.
01:32:18.029 --> 01:32:22.590
You're gonna go out there and make yourself vulnerable for other people's judgment or whatever.
01:32:22.829 --> 01:32:26.510
It's gonna make you close up and not express yourself how you want to express yourself.
01:32:26.670 --> 01:32:28.109
Just go out there and have fun.
01:32:28.750 --> 01:32:33.069
And take perhaps some of that nonchalant who cares?
01:32:33.230 --> 01:32:33.789
Nobody.
01:32:34.510 --> 01:32:38.029
You are not even a side character in someone else's life.
01:32:38.109 --> 01:32:43.230
It's all selfish, which again, not in a horrible way, but everyone's life's a great lesson to learn.
01:32:43.390 --> 01:32:44.909
Yeah, everyone's life is about them.
01:32:45.069 --> 01:32:48.750
You'll be a fleeting echo of a oh, you shouldn't do it.
01:32:48.909 --> 01:32:50.430
Okay, I went, and then they forget about you.
01:32:50.670 --> 01:32:56.670
So people holding themselves back through fear of what people I mean, look at this podcast, me creating art, all these things.
01:32:56.750 --> 01:33:01.390
It's like I could very easily bury my head in the sand and not do any of it because I'm scared of what people are gonna think.
01:33:01.470 --> 01:33:07.230
But like putting yourself if you want to do social media stuff, just put yourself on social media.
01:33:07.390 --> 01:33:08.909
Well, but what if my voice sounds funny?
01:33:09.069 --> 01:33:11.230
Doesn't matter, loads of people's voices sound funny on social media.
01:33:11.470 --> 01:33:24.189
Because honestly, you doing your social media and not giving a fuck about it actually gave me a lot more confidence because it was sort of like if that idiot can do it, I've been in the creative industries for years, I must be able to do this.
01:33:24.350 --> 01:33:26.829
But it is that weird judgment thing.
01:33:26.989 --> 01:33:30.189
I'm putting myself out there, I'm putting myself on camera.
01:33:30.430 --> 01:33:32.909
You aren't gonna judge me more than I've already judged myself.
01:33:33.149 --> 01:33:33.710
Exactly.
01:33:33.869 --> 01:33:35.230
And that's exactly the same for me.
01:33:35.390 --> 01:33:36.350
It's exactly the same for me.
01:33:36.510 --> 01:33:39.949
Okay, so a mutual friend of ours, Tom, who does all the filming and all that.
01:33:40.189 --> 01:33:45.630
Can't believe how well and how fast I do takes for whatever you know I'm advertising by Jip.
01:33:46.109 --> 01:33:48.350
It's because I really couldn't give two shit.
01:33:48.430 --> 01:33:48.670
Yeah.
01:33:49.069 --> 01:33:51.949
And that means I can relax and deliver the stuff I need to deliver.
01:33:52.029 --> 01:33:52.270
Yeah, no.
01:33:52.510 --> 01:33:54.510
You're saying there are people in the industry that can't do it.
01:33:54.670 --> 01:33:56.109
Oh no, I said that word a bit wrong.
01:33:56.189 --> 01:33:56.909
I need to do it stuff.
01:33:57.230 --> 01:33:57.789
Yeah, and all right.
01:33:58.670 --> 01:33:59.550
No one will pick up on that.
01:33:59.630 --> 01:34:00.590
It's the overall message stuff.
01:34:00.829 --> 01:34:04.989
Well, it's that goes back to the whole thing, doesn't it, about you slipping those notes in those gigs.
01:34:05.149 --> 01:34:08.029
The band might notice, but the audience haven't got a fucking clue.
01:34:08.270 --> 01:34:10.189
They're the ones dancing, yeah.
01:34:11.390 --> 01:34:20.109
But that's kind of what I wanted to take away from this: the fact that there's creativity in fighting, there's the discipline that comes from these things that we can take into.
01:34:20.350 --> 01:34:23.869
There's so many live skills that span both.
01:34:24.270 --> 01:34:37.869
The big one is practice so much that it you're obsessed and you you know the craft, whatever the craft is, like the back of your hand, and must be done this way and all that, and practice so much that then you realise there's a thousand ways to do it, it doesn't matter.
01:34:38.029 --> 01:34:40.909
Is it that thing know all the rules enough so you can break them?
01:34:41.069 --> 01:34:42.109
Yeah, boxing 101.
01:34:42.590 --> 01:34:43.470
Never there you go.
01:34:43.630 --> 01:34:43.869
Mr.
01:34:44.029 --> 01:34:45.470
Picasso is a good boxer.
01:34:46.989 --> 01:34:51.710
Anyway, yeah, so again, I'll teach everyone don't cross your feet when you box.
01:34:51.789 --> 01:34:53.310
And I'll cross my feet all the time.
01:34:53.550 --> 01:34:54.670
You just cross your feet, yeah.
01:34:54.750 --> 01:34:58.909
But I know when to, I know how to, and I know that the rigid structure can be broken.
01:34:59.149 --> 01:35:01.470
Oh, James is that much of a talented boxer.
01:35:01.550 --> 01:35:04.029
He fights us all during the moon war while he's wearing crocs, you know.
01:35:04.189 --> 01:35:09.149
And singing some and singing songs that he's been singing to his daughter most of the day.
01:35:09.470 --> 01:35:12.029
Um, what have we not spoken about?
01:35:12.189 --> 01:35:13.230
I think we've covered a lot.
01:35:14.270 --> 01:35:22.829
Covered your journey, the creativity, the links between creativity and fighting, the brilliant life skills you can discipline and resilience you can get from fighting.
01:35:23.069 --> 01:35:26.029
Yeah, just everyone get yourselves in the combat sport gym.
01:35:26.189 --> 01:35:28.350
So your creativity can get better.
01:35:28.590 --> 01:35:29.869
And put yourself out there.
01:35:30.109 --> 01:35:33.789
But also, those other things of you you've built a brand, you're doing the YouTube channel.
01:35:34.029 --> 01:35:42.989
I know you don't like all that, but that building the brand later down the line, when you're old and your knees are gone, you might have Penny in as a championship coach.
01:35:44.109 --> 01:35:44.989
Maybe, maybe.
01:35:45.069 --> 01:35:47.789
But that again it's would you like Penny to do some combat sports?
01:35:48.750 --> 01:35:49.630
She's gonna do something too.
01:35:49.869 --> 01:35:51.630
Yes, she'll do something.
01:35:51.710 --> 01:36:00.029
Yeah, not I don't care if she competes or anything like that, but I want to know that if someone's picking on her, then she rip their arm off or smash theft.
01:36:00.189 --> 01:36:03.069
Again, it wouldn't be taught like just go kill them.
01:36:03.149 --> 01:36:08.350
But if she's got I've got a pretty mean slap on me because I can box.
01:36:08.670 --> 01:36:12.430
So, worst case scenario, first thing I'm gonna do is either shove something really hard, which I've done loads of times.
01:36:12.510 --> 01:36:15.470
I've pushed people so hard they're gone flying and don't want any part of it.
01:36:15.710 --> 01:36:21.310
So hopefully she can do that, or you slap them, which I've never had to, so hard that they don't want any part of it.
01:36:21.390 --> 01:36:28.829
So she's got that, and yeah, and all the rest of it, the confidence and the being humble and having something to work to discipline young.
01:36:33.230 --> 01:36:35.390
I want her to be not as blasé as me.
01:36:35.869 --> 01:36:36.670
That's what I want.
01:36:36.829 --> 01:36:37.230
That's cool.
01:36:37.390 --> 01:36:43.310
You're gonna be a driven young lady, just something combat sports related for a while, no matter what.
01:36:43.470 --> 01:36:45.630
I think it's important for everybody.
01:36:46.029 --> 01:36:48.829
For everybody, and then stay active.
01:36:49.390 --> 01:36:51.550
Yeah, the minute you stop, that's what we see, isn't it?
01:36:51.630 --> 01:36:59.550
A lot of the time we see it's the so again, your physical discipline is exactly the same as your creative discipline.
01:36:59.630 --> 01:37:02.989
If you're not being active in your creative, so my guitar playing's gone to absolute shit.
01:37:03.470 --> 01:37:04.829
It's because I don't I'm not active in that.
01:37:05.149 --> 01:37:07.069
Whereas if I was still practicing, I'd be selling their line.
01:37:07.230 --> 01:37:08.829
Would you like to be more active in your music?
01:37:09.550 --> 01:37:11.390
I want an electric drum kit.
01:37:11.550 --> 01:37:15.630
I flirted with the drums, I'm sure as soon as I get that I'll be in the thing again.
01:37:15.710 --> 01:37:25.310
But it's new, it'll be also I guess you the priorities raising a family, getting married, having a child, starting the gym, the priorities can't do everything.
01:37:25.390 --> 01:37:27.710
And you can do anything, but you can't do everything.
01:37:27.949 --> 01:37:28.670
Yes, yeah.
01:37:28.989 --> 01:37:37.149
Again at the minute, making sure I raise a functional adult is key, especially in the age of non-functional adults.
01:37:37.470 --> 01:37:39.069
She's only two, but I love her to pieces.
01:37:39.149 --> 01:37:45.710
We had such a good time the other day playing hide and seek and boxing monsters in the gym that I didn't do any boxing, but that was fine.
01:37:45.949 --> 01:37:47.230
What are the future aspirations?
01:37:47.470 --> 01:37:49.869
Bigger, better gym, more coaches, more Yeah.
01:37:50.029 --> 01:37:53.310
I want people in there, coaches in there that are way more talented than me.
01:37:53.470 --> 01:38:03.230
Eventually, I want to make a space where they want to be in there and working, whether it's self-employed and renting the space off me or whether I I'd love to give them the job.
01:38:03.390 --> 01:38:06.909
And there's not a lot of job security in boxing coaching or boxing alone.
01:38:06.989 --> 01:38:16.670
So yeah, bigger, better, more members, full classes, just see where all the online stuff, if that ever takes off, cool, but it's the bread and butter that I like.
01:38:16.750 --> 01:38:17.069
I like that.
01:38:17.230 --> 01:38:19.630
Yeah, face-to-face is the most important that pays your bills.
01:38:20.270 --> 01:38:24.510
The ultimate dream would be to make boxing champions over time.
01:38:24.750 --> 01:38:26.989
And would that involve getting amateur professional?
01:38:27.470 --> 01:38:31.390
So I want to get my pros license this year, and I'll get my amateur later on.
01:38:32.189 --> 01:38:34.829
My naivety, what do you have to do to get those sorts of licenses?
01:38:35.230 --> 01:38:36.909
I don't know the ins and outs really.
01:38:36.989 --> 01:38:43.710
Uh a couple of my mates are pro coaches, and I've asked them, and it's basically you do an interview, pass the interview, here you go.
01:38:43.869 --> 01:38:49.149
But then you have to work your way up, so you can't just I wouldn't then be able to go and lead you into a boxing match.
01:38:49.230 --> 01:38:52.510
I'm a second coach, so I've got to hold the split bucket, get spat up.
01:38:52.670 --> 01:38:53.069
Cool.
01:38:53.310 --> 01:38:54.750
Make sure you get the bucket.
01:38:55.149 --> 01:38:57.470
Okay, we've covered quite a lot in this, haven't we?
01:38:57.710 --> 01:39:05.149
We do have a closing tradition on the Creative Nowhereland podcast where we ask our guests to give us a quote of some sort that resonates with you.
01:39:05.390 --> 01:39:12.270
And also someone in your network that you think could be an interesting guest to come on the Creative Nowhere Land podcast in the future.
01:39:12.989 --> 01:39:19.390
I constantly spit out quotations from people who are way smarter than me and way more qualified than me all day, every day.
01:39:19.630 --> 01:39:20.670
I need one for the podcast.
01:39:20.829 --> 01:39:21.069
Yes.
01:39:21.230 --> 01:39:26.270
You mentioned one of my favourites, which is better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardener in a war.
01:39:26.590 --> 01:39:26.989
Fantastic.
01:39:27.230 --> 01:39:27.390
Brilliant.
01:39:27.550 --> 01:39:31.310
Me and Moto Musashi from the Book of Five Rings, read it, change your life.
01:39:31.470 --> 01:39:35.069
But one of my favourites from a lady I missed deal is from my auntie.
01:39:35.149 --> 01:39:36.189
And it's super simple.
01:39:36.350 --> 01:39:43.789
After 10 years of battling horrific cancer, her like sign off was smile at strangers and enjoy your life.
01:39:44.029 --> 01:39:44.829
Oh, that's brilliant.
01:39:44.989 --> 01:39:45.949
And can we talk a little?
01:39:46.029 --> 01:39:47.470
Because I we forgot, haven't we?
01:39:47.630 --> 01:39:54.109
Your auntie is a big important character, and this is one of those things that again, discipline, giving back to others.
01:39:54.350 --> 01:40:00.109
When your auntie was poorly with cancer, you decided to do 101 rounds of boxing for charity, didn't you?
01:40:00.270 --> 01:40:01.069
I did indeed.
01:40:01.230 --> 01:40:01.949
How was that?
01:40:02.189 --> 01:40:03.069
Terrible.
01:40:04.109 --> 01:40:13.149
Uh we raised a shed load of money for blood wise, I think they changed their name now, but basically, I think they're the leading blood cancer charity in the UK.
01:40:13.230 --> 01:40:13.630
Yeah.
01:40:13.949 --> 01:40:19.869
Because she had a really aggressive and rare form of blood cancer, some kind of Hodgkin's lymphoma or something like that.
01:40:20.350 --> 01:40:22.109
She passed away, sadly, just before you were.
01:40:22.750 --> 01:40:23.390
Yeah.
01:40:23.710 --> 01:40:29.470
From what she either passed away just before we did the event itself, or she passed away because I wanted her to be there.
01:40:29.550 --> 01:40:32.989
I wanted to do the last round with her, which she would have never been able to do because she was really bad.
01:40:33.149 --> 01:40:34.270
At that point, really bad, yeah.
01:40:34.590 --> 01:40:37.789
Basically, I think the last year of her life, she was just in the hospital.
01:40:38.189 --> 01:40:46.590
But so she was either there but couldn't make uh alive with us and couldn't make it, or she died just before we released the documentary.
01:40:46.750 --> 01:40:53.710
So Tom, who did a really nice documentary that he put out on YouTube about it all, and I don't think she saw that.
01:40:54.029 --> 01:40:56.989
But if you want to watch that, it's called Use the Love as one word.
01:40:57.390 --> 01:41:00.189
Big shout out to Tom Sibble or Baker Avenue.
01:41:00.670 --> 01:41:02.510
Um, yeah, she's an incredible lady.
01:41:03.310 --> 01:41:05.710
My auntie was a surrogate mother, pretty much.
01:41:05.949 --> 01:41:10.750
Really to myself and to my sister, so she was a big character in our lives.
01:41:10.989 --> 01:41:14.109
Lovely lady, all a good human all round.
01:41:14.670 --> 01:41:15.630
Great quote as well.
01:41:15.789 --> 01:41:16.109
Yeah, yeah.
01:41:16.350 --> 01:41:18.510
Again, so simple and so effective.
01:41:18.750 --> 01:41:24.109
Whether you just don't want to be embarrassed, you're only no one cares, but it's just smile at someone.
01:41:24.590 --> 01:41:30.350
My nan said the same thing, give three compliments compliments a day, and they don't have to be like, well, I love your fit or no, no, no.
01:41:30.510 --> 01:41:35.149
Just, oh, I really love that jacket, or I love the energy you've got when you walk into a room or whatever.
01:41:35.630 --> 01:41:36.909
So pure tiredness.
01:41:37.550 --> 01:41:38.590
That's a two-year-old.
01:41:39.069 --> 01:41:46.590
People are so receptive just to people being nice, but just don't expect it, or just don't not that they don't want to do it, scared of what if they're not nice back?
01:41:46.670 --> 01:41:46.989
Who cares?
01:41:47.069 --> 01:41:47.470
Yeah, who cares?
01:41:47.550 --> 01:41:48.510
And you know they're in knob.
01:41:48.750 --> 01:41:49.149
Who cares?
01:41:49.310 --> 01:41:52.750
You never know what you're gonna do with some kind words to someone, even if they don't respond.
01:41:52.829 --> 01:41:56.350
They might go away and think, oh my god, that guy said something really nice about my coat the other day.
01:41:56.590 --> 01:42:00.430
And then I'll say something nice about two other people's coats, and then it's a nice thing, isn't it?
01:42:00.510 --> 01:42:07.710
It's just like yeah, yeah, she was uh a wise lady, didn't get too many years on the planet, but she was good with stuff.
01:42:08.029 --> 01:42:13.149
Pretty incredible of you to do a hundred and one rounds of boxing.
01:42:13.390 --> 01:42:15.149
I had to do more than anyone else in our gym.
01:42:15.949 --> 01:42:16.590
Again.
01:42:16.909 --> 01:42:18.029
Go on, tell that story.
01:42:18.189 --> 01:42:19.310
Someone else had done a hundred rounds.
01:42:19.710 --> 01:42:25.310
Yeah, that we'd had a couple of a hundred round events to raise money for charity, so secretly I had to better them.
01:42:25.470 --> 01:42:41.230
But it was also inspired by my auntie had been in that comas for God knows how long, and a couple of times, bad, like this is it kind of comas, and then bounced back and come out of the hospital and lived quote unquote normal life as best she could for a year or two or nine months, or whatever.
01:42:42.829 --> 01:42:46.829
Not to the same league, but when you were going through the 101 rounds, did you go through peaks and troughs?
01:42:47.069 --> 01:42:47.470
Oh, big time.
01:42:47.630 --> 01:42:49.310
I'm gonna give this a that was it.
01:42:49.550 --> 01:42:50.350
So bounced back.
01:42:50.590 --> 01:42:55.630
That my hundredth round was maybe you know, her being like, Oh, and then she'd always give one more.
01:42:55.710 --> 01:42:55.869
Yeah.
01:42:56.270 --> 01:42:57.470
So they go 100 and warm rounds.
01:42:57.710 --> 01:43:06.029
Yeah, and yeah, I remember bizarre, the first 30 rounds piece of cake, and then first 60 rounds is a video of me, round 67 or something, still looking all right.
01:43:06.189 --> 01:43:08.350
I was like, oh, and then 70.
01:43:08.670 --> 01:43:09.149
Really?
01:43:09.390 --> 01:43:12.989
Oh just the world collapsed around me.
01:43:13.149 --> 01:43:14.590
Oh, I can imagine that's exhausting.
01:43:14.909 --> 01:43:19.390
Yeah, there's a video, so I beat my mum up instead for the last round.
01:43:19.949 --> 01:43:20.829
There's a video of me.
01:43:20.909 --> 01:43:22.989
So I think it's on the end of the of Tom's documentary.
01:43:23.869 --> 01:43:27.069
And I'm just oh really, yeah.
01:43:28.350 --> 01:43:33.550
Okay, and a creative person in your network or a person in your network that you think would be an interesting guest.
01:43:33.869 --> 01:43:34.670
Tom Sivil.
01:43:35.069 --> 01:43:35.550
There you go.
01:43:35.630 --> 01:43:36.989
We talk about he made the documentary.
01:43:37.149 --> 01:43:38.350
Tom is a legend.
01:43:38.829 --> 01:43:42.189
Unbelievably good eye for filmmaking and photography in general.
01:43:42.270 --> 01:43:43.149
I've got two actually.
01:43:43.310 --> 01:43:45.710
So Tom Sivil and yourself.
01:43:46.270 --> 01:43:49.949
Oh, you see, this is now you've done it on a podcast, that's dangerous.
01:43:50.029 --> 01:43:54.590
But a few people have come and said, we really need to have an interview of you, and I'm like, nah.
01:43:54.989 --> 01:43:58.270
But um, I'm not sure how we'd wear that.
01:43:58.510 --> 01:43:58.909
So Tom.
01:44:00.350 --> 01:44:00.750
So Tom.
01:44:01.149 --> 01:44:06.590
But yeah, Tom, again, incredible and inspiring person, doing loads of stuff outside of his art as well.
01:44:06.670 --> 01:44:09.630
He's very driven, switched on dude.
01:44:10.109 --> 01:44:14.670
So, yeah, him, great creative eye, makes good stuff as well as he's a good one.
01:44:14.750 --> 01:44:15.869
He's just a good egg as well, isn't it?
01:44:16.029 --> 01:44:18.029
He's a lovely, lovely man, top geezer.
01:44:18.430 --> 01:44:20.029
I think it would be an interesting story.
01:44:20.189 --> 01:44:21.069
I like Tom a lot.
01:44:21.149 --> 01:44:21.869
Yeah, me too.
01:44:22.189 --> 01:44:22.989
Uh he'll be good in.
01:44:23.310 --> 01:44:23.630
James.
01:44:23.869 --> 01:44:26.590
And you and yeah, no, well, so Tom Sybil.
01:44:28.109 --> 01:44:31.069
James, thank you so much for doing the Creative No Land podcast, mate.
01:44:31.230 --> 01:44:34.109
As I say, maybe people might look at it and go, boxing coach.
01:44:34.189 --> 01:44:41.470
I'm not really sure about that, but so much creativity wrapped up in your journey, so much creativity wrapped up in not getting punched in the face.
01:44:41.710 --> 01:44:42.109
Yes.
01:44:42.270 --> 01:44:43.310
Um I don't like it.
01:44:43.390 --> 01:44:44.189
So trying not to.
01:44:44.750 --> 01:44:50.189
And I just think of some genuinely good life lessons to learn from people listening to this if they choose to take away from.
01:44:50.510 --> 01:44:50.829
Yeah.
01:44:50.989 --> 01:44:52.189
Again, get amongst it.
01:44:52.350 --> 01:44:52.829
Get amongst it.
01:44:53.069 --> 01:44:53.789
Get yourself involved.
01:44:53.949 --> 01:44:55.390
Smile at strangers, enjoy your life.
01:44:55.789 --> 01:45:01.149
If enjoying your life is to go and get fisted in the face repeatedly, or hopefully get around it, then do it.
01:45:01.390 --> 01:45:01.949
Beautiful.
01:45:02.109 --> 01:45:04.909
Ending the podcast with some mild fisting.
01:45:05.230 --> 01:45:05.949
Thanks, buddy.
01:45:06.189 --> 01:45:06.989
Thank you.
01:45:07.710 --> 01:45:10.829
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01:45:11.069 --> 01:45:18.510
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01:45:18.750 --> 01:45:26.670
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01:45:28.430 --> 01:45:35.869
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01:45:41.069 --> 01:45:45.869
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01:45:46.189 --> 01:45:53.069
So, thanks again for listening, and until next time, explore, inspire, and create.
01:45:54.029 --> 01:45:59.789
Better to have a short life that is full of what you like doing than a long life spent in a miserable way.
01:46:00.829 --> 01:46:04.670
And so, that boy is so important to consider this question.
01:46:04.909 --> 01:46:06.270
What do I desire?