The Program

WEBVTT
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Thank you for tuning into another show in the next
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Real Family of Film podcasts. Want to skip those ads
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and get early access, become a member at true story
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dot fm, slash join and discover all the other great
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perks that come with it. Hello world, Welcome to the
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Adriam Moment on True Story FM. I'm Ocean and I'm
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joined this week by the bud Light to my Joe Caine,
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Jim poland.
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Let's put the women and children to bed and let's
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get some buck in dinner.
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Yeah, that only works on offenses. So yeah, no, that's
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a yes. While that is the uh, that is definitely
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what we do at the end of the game we're
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trying to win. Yeah. Yeah, that reminds me of like, oh, honestly,
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my son was talking about that because we're talking about
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that phrase and he's, uh, he plays free safety on
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his high school football team, and he wants to in
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the defensive huddles, which I, what are a whole aside
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about why are you huddling on defense? But okay, in
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the defensive huddles he wants to say that, and I
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had to explain to him that that only works an
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offense because you have to be able to end the
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game to do that.
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So but he said in all the other hurdles too, though.
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Yeah, it's just said it in the offensive huddle. But yes,
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I do. I do find it interesting the idea that
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we're going to put the women and children to bed
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and then we're basically we're gonna go dinner as a
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bunch of dudes. And it's like, well, as a bunch
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of dudes when we go get dinner, shouldn't we be
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looking for at least the women. I mean, not the children,
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but like they were the women, you know, So yeah,
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like put the children to bed.
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No, I agree, because otherwise I mean, seriously, it's just
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a big sausage.
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Test there really is.
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Yeah, that seems like get some barbecue with the fellas exactly.
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Yeah, that's that's a little too much bonding, right, I
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think that, you know. So Yeah, but cool, Well, welcome
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everybody to the show. To the show, you know, Jim.
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That does uh clearly tie into something that I was
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thinking about where it's the as of this recording, football
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season is starting and I officiate college football, and also
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with my son playing it, it becomes a really big
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deal in the household, and so you know, then you know,
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when I say a big deal, meaning not only just
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all the do to day practices and everything he's doing,
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but then also all the different tests and stuff that
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I have to do to get ready for officiating for football,
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and then watching a bunch of film and seeing a
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lot of football. So I didn't know what about So
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typically when at what part of the year or when
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does it start for you that football starts to dominate
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your sports app and your sports diets.
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I mean, for me, it's more during baseball. That's like
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baseball is ending, and you know, it's playoffs for baseball,
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so you know, and now I need a little void
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space sometimes to be able to fill the void of
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what I normally predominantly have on the team is various
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baseball games on. Okay, So then so then football fills
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the void, got it?
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So then football for you doesn't really start till the
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end of October.
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Yeah, I mean then towards the end of September. Yeah,
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early October, like when there's like when depending on when
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the season's ending. I mean typically it's like end of
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September early October is when it's ending, and then you know,
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then the playoffs starts. So yeah, I got to start
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having some voids filling in the void. And then basketball
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will start appearing on the TV every once in a while,
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but not much, and then hockey hockey then is the
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major void filler there. But you know that's only like
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once a once or twice a week.
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For got it. So you are the what I would
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now describe as a typical American family where at no
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point in time is football become the dominant sport in
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the household.
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Yeah, it had been at one time, but the little ones,
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we aren't so little anymore. Just they don't they don't
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really like football all that, which I've tried. It's just
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not it's not their thing. So you know, sometimes on
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the Sunday or Saturday, you know, depending on how much
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we're following particular football, you know, college, they seem to
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be okay more with college if it's like a team
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the you like, but we typically stay stay away from football. Unfortunately.
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Yeah, no, for mine, it definitely is football becomes dominant,
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not only from the participation we have, but then also
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my oldest who does not play football, he got into
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fantasy football. So there's all these fantasy football drafts and
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different things like that. And then and then of course
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they have to play either Madden or now College twenty five,
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which I've now told is a video games is the
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better one. That College twenty five apparently is better than
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Madden right now, Yes I am. I do not know,
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as I played neither, but I'm just going off with
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what they're telling me, and I'm just trusting their judgment.
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But in doing that, and when the time of the
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year comes around, I started thinking about the you know,
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of the various football games, there's only a few, or
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at least a handful that really deal with college football
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and the Big two at least that's what I'm calling
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him right now, is that there's two big two. There's
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necessary very roughness, which is it's it's a good movie.
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It's a comedy, h and it has you know, it
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has a couple of decent points in it. But the
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real one that to me is really dealing with or
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attempting to really shine a light on and talk about
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and uh portray college football is a movie called The Program.
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God that day.
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Most of my player is a fond voice or they're
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from the inner city.
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Football is their deliverance from different worlds.
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You wanta to improve. I'm gonna get you the house
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to go.
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Witting from different lives, Welcome to college. They've come to
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pursue a dream.
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Any football program earth his name, lead group of warriors.
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On the open watch of time.
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Talent unites them.
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You're gonna lead us to the promised land.
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Questions can you voice?
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Find the competition divides them?
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Don L. Jefferson the tailbag, Ray Griffin starting tail bang.
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Yeah, I know that's why he recruited me.
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It don't tell me your phone for this guy. He's nothing,
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He's just another gang banger. Would speak. Pressure surrounds them.
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You play that second half the way you did the
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first is what.
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The rest of you season go to look like. So
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we might take a little ride.
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He goes through no cowboy stuff.
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Well and one man stands by them.
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I'm never gonna play a gay even when they fall.
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Don't need screen needs you.
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We're gonna ring that championship bell.
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Touchstone Pictures and the Samuel Goldwyn Company presents a story
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of what it takes to fight the pressure. Yeah, face
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the pain and survive The program righted r.
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Now. The Program is a movie that you know came
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out in ninety three, and so it was it was
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moderately successful, but one that if you haven't heard of
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I would not be surprised in the general population had
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heard of it. Had you Did you watch it then
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when it came out and it was new then as well,
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or did you only watch it recently?
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Yeah? No, I watched it then. I believe I even
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saw it in the movie theater because that was actually
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when I was playing football for middle school high school.
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Nice And did you see it before they took out
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the deleted scene or after? Ooh? Probably after after? Okay, yeah,
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so the spot I saw it really early, so I
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saw the deleted scene and the deleted controversial scene is
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one where for those that don't either if you didn't
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see it that version or you just don't even remember that,
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that was a thing that they had a scene where
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the players are leaving a bar and they go out
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and sit down in the middle of the of a
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of a busy street and they sit down on the
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basically the yellow or the side of the white dotted lines.
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Traffic is all going one way. They get out in
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the middle of it, sit down. It's probably about three
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or four lanes, and they sit down in the middle
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of the dotted lines. And then they lay down and
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they lay down in a line, and it was actually
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a part of the trailer when it came out, but
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they lay down in a line, and the cars are
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going by, you know, honking horns and visit, and they're
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just kind of screaming because they're you know, some of
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them are concerned about the getting hit and things like that,
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and it's like it's not a little bit scary but fun.
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And uh, the leader of doing that, Joe Cain, is
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basically just reading an article about himself, you know, chilling
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like nothing's going on. And that scene was deleted because
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there were kids that then copied it and you know,
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to it in real life and then got hit and
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run over and killed by cars. And then after that
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they took it out. So most most versions that you'll
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see of it now, I really I think almost any
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version there's like a there's like a Hong Kong release
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that has it, but many version you watch of it
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now doesn't have that scene in it anymore. So I
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didn't know if you saw in early days, I know
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if you got in before after.
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No, I believe it was after I remember the quote
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unquote controversy of it all around that timeframe, and you
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know the warnings of like, you know, children are impressionable
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with movies. You know, I've got to take this out,
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you know, because it already happened. It's like, I don't know,
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like there's that phrase that's you know, f around and
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find out right now, and I mean.
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Yes, there is that movies and real life.
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Right It's like, yeah, these are stunt drivers driving by you.
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And this isn't like, you know whatever, your local freeway
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is near you, plants named here, yeah, lay down.
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Yeah, two lane free Yeah. So exactly. And so that
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was it was interesting part from a movie standpoint. But
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then I think that the real interesting pieces of this movie,
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and uh, I was excurious about which parts you'd want
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to talk about because the program is about college football,
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I really would say as a whole, and it does
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it through the prism of a big college football program,
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and it has different characters that represent different types of
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players that have been throughout the years that have been
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that have been in college football. And it has like,
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you know the idea of a big pressure system where
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the boosters and the school and everything will only want
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the program to win football to win, because that's where
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it generates a lot of money and uh, you know,
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just just money the coach has. He seems to have
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a moral compass that is a little bit loungible, you know,
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it's a little bit like he's you know, he seems
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to be kind of in the right direction, but it
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seems to be he can get pushed in one way
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or another, and so it's gise more like a chameleon
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pretty much. Yes, yes, moral chameleon. And so I think that, uh,
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you know, for me, one of the things that I
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loved about it was because it had all these subplots.
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It allowed for different characters that you could identify with
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for different ways, and uh, you know, for me, my
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personal favorite subplot was Latimer, Steve Latimer, who was played
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by I can never pronounce his last name correctly. This
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is Andrew. I guess it's Britanniarsky, Brian Yarski. I don't
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know how to pronounce his last name. But he's great.
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He's great. I love him in most everything he does.
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But anyway, he Uh, that character for me was something
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that I identified with a great deal because really his
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overall story arc and that he wasn't the best, he
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wasn't the best he wasn't necessarily good enough to really play,
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and that you know, he's the you know, his his
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character is the one that you know, he ended up
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uh gaining thirty five pounds over the summer because he's
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clearly taken steroids. And then uh, he's there for the
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no no, no, no, no, you can't. It's not easy. You
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can gain thirty five pounds if you hit the light
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to work really hard over the summer, you know. And
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so he's you know, he's been he's I assume a
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senior because he's been on the punk return team for
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three years and so this is the first year that
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he got to gain thirty five pounds, and he decided
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he wanted to play, and uh, he took a lot
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of steroids and and played and ended up you know,
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making the starting defense. And then the arch of his
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story is, you know, kind of the fallout of that,
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you know, the different things you have with the roid
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raging and then how that can affect your your attitude,
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your disposition, and your judgment and then yeah, you know,
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and then the the repercussions that that he had to
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face as a result of that. And so I think
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that uh, getting around that as far as why I
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identified with them was because you know that this big
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time football was something that when I was a kid,
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I definitely wanted to do, but I wasn't good enough
253
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to do it. You know. I was maybe good enough
254
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to play in small the smaller levels of football, but
255
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I just I could never get to this level where
256
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I was. I would have been, you know, had I
257
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really worked, had I really worked hard at it, I
258
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could have been that kid that made the punt team
259
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for three years, you know, at a at a bigger
260
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school like this. But I never would have been enough
261
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to be the start and h s defensive end without
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without some steroids, you know, and you know, a lot
263
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and a lot of lifting weights. And so I think
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that the and the reason I finishing is that, like
265
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I think that you can kind of view him as
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a couple of ways of where one is it that
267
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you know, he took a short cut and that he
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was he was just like, Hey, I'm gonna take a
269
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short cut and in a sense cheat together because it
270
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is it's cheating. I'll compete it cheating, cheat it is.
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But he did he take a shortcut to come to
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get to get to where he wanted to get to
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or was it a thing of where he just uh
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was willing to do anything it took for this opportunity
275
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because he knew he's not going any further. He's not
276
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going to go to the pros. He's not good enough
277
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for that. And he knows that this is it, this
278
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is his last year. If he doesn't do everything in
279
00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:33.679
his power to get on the field now that it's
280
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never going to happen and so and whether or not
281
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that is an identifiable thing, or if you just view
282
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that as just well, he was just a short a
283
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short cut, shortcutting cheater that god what he deserved.
284
00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:51.440
No, his particular storyline I didn't necessarily identify with or
285
00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:58.519
anything like that. But seeing the usage of the steroids
286
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and all that, his purse and why he was doing it,
287
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to me, it was, yeah, he wanted to get the
288
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team over the hump. You know, two years they haven't
289
00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:10.759
made I haven't made it into a bowl game. It's
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his last year. I'm assuming that he didn't get red shirted, right.
291
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I'm assuming. Do you do you think he did it
292
00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:17.799
for the team and not himself.
293
00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:21.240
Well, he's doing it for himself because he saw an opportunity.
294
00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:23.679
But you know, to an opportunity to fill a void,
295
00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:26.519
you know, which is going to help that team get
296
00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:30.559
to the bowl. Right, So, I mean sure, it's definitely
297
00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.159
selfish for himself to be able to do that and
298
00:14:33.240 --> 00:14:37.120
to want to, you know, fill that void and be like,
299
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I'm going to do this and get to this point
300
00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.080
so I can play in my senior year. But ultimately,
301
00:14:42.759 --> 00:14:45.279
I think he's also kind of thinking about the team.
302
00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:47.279
Not saying that he was like coming out as a
303
00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:51.399
major team guy, but I would I would think that
304
00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:53.399
he's kind of putting that weight a little bit on
305
00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:55.759
himself too. We don't necessarily see it in the story.
306
00:14:55.879 --> 00:14:58.600
I'm building that up in my head, you know, thinking like,
307
00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:02.159
all right, this guy is also trying to make sure that,
308
00:15:02.279 --> 00:15:03.799
you know, what if I'm going to put myself at
309
00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:06.159
harm's way for this one last year so I can
310
00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:09.159
prove that I can play because everybody else doesn't. Everybody
311
00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.360
else has different talent than I do. I'm going to
312
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:13.279
do this and we're going to get to the playoffs.
313
00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:15.840
You know. It's that and we're going to get to
314
00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.120
the playoffs kind of mentalities where I'm at.
315
00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.440
Yeah, and and I and I will admit that I
316
00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:22.799
think part of why I also identified with him a
317
00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:26.360
lot was in these scenes when they when the team
318
00:15:26.440 --> 00:15:29.480
is getting together before the first game and the coach
319
00:15:29.559 --> 00:15:32.559
asks them to describe, you know, what their most you know,
320
00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:34.360
why they love football and with their most proud of
321
00:15:34.360 --> 00:15:37.399
off the field, and Latimer's really, for lack of a
322
00:15:37.440 --> 00:15:41.279
better term, short term speech about how they are, you know, separate,
323
00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:43.679
and how they how they're looked up, how they looked
324
00:15:43.759 --> 00:15:45.840
up to and they're separate and they're setting themselves apart.
325
00:15:46.039 --> 00:15:48.960
And that's about you know, being in their own hotels
326
00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:51.840
and your own dorms, and that you know you're you're
327
00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:55.120
you're special, and that you not everybody can play football,
328
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:57.639
but we're the lucky ones, right, you know, and that
329
00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:00.240
and and that he just views it as that it's
330
00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:03.279
such a great and wonderful thing to aspire towards. That
331
00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:06.480
made it where he would, you know, take this route
332
00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:07.879
to get there because it was the only way he
333
00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:10.000
could get there. He wasn't born with the talent of
334
00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:13.039
Alvin Mack or or even Joe Kine. He just, you know,
335
00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:14.639
he was good enough to get on the punt team
336
00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:16.919
and that was it. And so and then the room
337
00:16:18.799 --> 00:16:22.600
exact ultimately yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, well yes, yes he
338
00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:24.240
did it for I think that it was also a
339
00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:26.879
part of his identity and that it allowed him to
340
00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:30.200
he identified himself through that, and that if he made
341
00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:35.480
the team, it's as if he was worthy, worthy of
342
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.120
being a person and worthy of being looked up and
343
00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:42.440
admired and worthy of those things as right, whereas with
344
00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:45.639
without that it was there was I think a self
345
00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:48.480
definition of he was less than or not quite enough,
346
00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:51.919
and and and I really I find I kind of
347
00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:54.440
understand that I get that, you know, and then and
348
00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:57.320
don't get me wrong, I definitely feel that the thinking
349
00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:00.320
of the outcomes of where he was in this scene
350
00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:02.720
with the girl where you know, you know, basically attempted
351
00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.839
to rape her. You know that that party course is
352
00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:08.359
very bad, and then you got suspended from the team
353
00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:10.319
and all that. And I thought that that that scene,
354
00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:12.720
it was an interesting dichonomy that they chose such a
355
00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:15.920
small girl because when they were when they're sitting next
356
00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:18.240
to each other, she's so much smaller than her that
357
00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:20.920
it looks a little odd, like it's really odd. It
358
00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:23.000
looks odd. It's like it's like it's with a child,
359
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:26.119
because he's so much bigger, you know, but I think
360
00:17:26.160 --> 00:17:28.880
that that might have even been a visual choice to
361
00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:32.480
demonstrate that, you know, this adult woman is so much
362
00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:35.359
smaller and so much in a sense in this in
363
00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:38.920
this sense powerless against you know, someone that big and
364
00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:42.039
that strong, you know, and that yes, and that he
365
00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:45.519
was menacing is you're exactly, You're right. He created it
366
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:47.240
creates a menacing and it creates a thing where the
367
00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:51.119
power imbalance is so high that that definitely like what
368
00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:53.920
he did and everything is so bad because she really
369
00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:56.960
had no recourse until other when other teammates came in
370
00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.400
and grabbed them, and it took multiple to grab him
371
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:01.440
and calming down to make it where where he didn't
372
00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:05.960
actually rap raper that you know, that that demonstrating that
373
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:08.200
and that that that steroids can create that type of
374
00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:10.240
reaction out of you, and that lack of self control
375
00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:13.359
and the next the need and necessity to get off
376
00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:16.799
of a steroids into you know, clean yourself up and everything.
377
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:20.200
Why that would be better for you, not only really
378
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:21.839
just as a person, because it's not going to benefit
379
00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:23.640
you as much as an athlete, because as an athlete,
380
00:18:23.720 --> 00:18:28.839
steroids work, you know, well, I mean they they if
381
00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:31.000
you think about it, they do right, Like, it's like
382
00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:34.079
they you know that you you will be bigger, stronger, faster,
383
00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:36.480
you recover, you recover faster. You know, you'll be better.
384
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:40.359
There's the side effects about what you happen to you
385
00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:42.920
as a person is not necessarily going to be the
386
00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:46.680
greatest thing in the world. But uh, from from athletics standpoint,
387
00:18:46.680 --> 00:18:48.880
it's like, well, yeah, the reason they're banned is partly
388
00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:53.559
because they were exactly you know, you know, if they
389
00:18:53.599 --> 00:18:55.400
didn't work, that wouldn't be a problem. No one, you know,
390
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:58.559
no one's banning you from having you know, like alcohol, right,
391
00:18:58.599 --> 00:19:01.240
No one's banning from alcohol. But that's not performance enhancing
392
00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:03.359
in any way. Really to put a button on his arc,
393
00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:05.799
and then I'll move on to ask what you think
394
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.920
about it was that I also identify with that. So
395
00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:12.240
he he cleans himself up and gets off. He's not
396
00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:14.920
he's recognizing that he's not quite as good and that,
397
00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:16.480
but he has to then step up in a big
398
00:19:16.519 --> 00:19:19.319
play for defense at the end of the near the
399
00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:21.200
near the end, not the last game, but near the end,
400
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:24.319
and that he uh, you know, isn't good enough. He
401
00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:27.000
gets run over for the game winning touchdown, and that
402
00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:29.640
he wasn't good enough because he didn't have that extra edge,
403
00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.079
and that that created in him that in order to
404
00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:35.640
be good enough again he you know, got back on
405
00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:38.519
it again. Yeah, you know, and and that yes, and
406
00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:40.160
so I think that that was one of those things
407
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:43.079
where from an athletic standpoint, uh, you know, it's character.
408
00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.079
They don't give you enough about you know, what happens
409
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:47.160
after all of this, after the season, with this movie.
410
00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:49.000
But then from athletic standpoint, it's like, well, he still
411
00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:51.599
felt that in order to be worthy and be good enough,
412
00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:53.359
he still had to do this. He had to figure
413
00:19:53.359 --> 00:19:56.200
out ways to get past the system, get past the testing,
414
00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:57.680
do whatever you have to do to be able to
415
00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:00.480
get these steroids so that you can be worthy and
416
00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:02.599
good enough and be on this team, to.
417
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:06.599
The extreme of getting PSS injected into your bladder right
418
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:12.000
before it tests now, right, and and and that's that
419
00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:15.440
I think is what blows me away with the with
420
00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:19.680
his whole his whole storyline, and his whole story arch
421
00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:26.920
is the stereotypical dude that does you know, all of
422
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:29.599
the drugs and all the things to be better that
423
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:32.960
you shouldn't do, and you you wish that it's not
424
00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:35.759
in sports, and it is, and people want to turn
425
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:37.880
a blind eye to it. And this movie is like, no, here,
426
00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:40.759
here's this whole storyline. Here's this whole arch of this guy,
427
00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:44.400
this this dude that has turned into from a three
428
00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:51.759
year punt return to starting outside linebacker. Uh def, I
429
00:20:51.759 --> 00:20:55.079
mean yet, sorry, you know which is I mean, that's
430
00:20:55.079 --> 00:20:57.759
a remarkable jump. I mean it's that's not even like
431
00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:01.640
Rudy esque, Like that's like just throws it out the
432
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:03.839
door and just like, hey, here's thirty five pounds of
433
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:08.440
muscle and meathead, you know, go out there and get it.
434
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:13.319
That to me, is the great storyline or of his arch.
435
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:18.640
Is that how he hits all of the stereotypes that
436
00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:22.680
are in football and unfortunately probably still in football today
437
00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:27.000
under different circumstances and different steroids and different different measures
438
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:30.279
to go around us. But it's just crazy because it's like,
439
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:34.759
you know, people have done that, like have injected other
440
00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:38.119
people's safe urine in their bladder to piss it out
441
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:39.640
in front of a doctor and be like, yeh, look
442
00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:41.599
I passed a test, you know. I mean, it's just
443
00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:43.400
like it's an extreme.
444
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:45.240
Yeah, And there's the way this movie invented that.
445
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:47.720
Yeah, Yeah, the movie didn't invent it at all. That's
446
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:50.359
not like a dramatization or anything that's like, no, that
447
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:53.799
has happened. Yes you have evidence of it, but it
448
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:54.400
has happened.
449
00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:57.400
Yeah, I think he fits stereotypes for some of those
450
00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:01.279
of the archetypes of that and for the under for
451
00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:04.200
the player that isn't quite good enough, Like he was
452
00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:07.880
better at the lower level. So like, he's clearly going
453
00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:09.839
to be a great high school athlete and a great
454
00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:11.640
high school player, but then once he got to college
455
00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:14.119
and you know, the level of competition changed that he
456
00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:18.200
needed he needed this edge in order to compete where
457
00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:21.440
he didn't necessarily before. But that you know, yeah, I
458
00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:23.000
think that he's a lot of that. But there are
459
00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:26.720
plenty of other archetypes and stereotypes that are that are
460
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:29.640
I don't know that stereotype is the right word, but
461
00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:34.799
definitely archetypes of different different things that are that occur
462
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:37.519
in a college program. And so like, since I spent
463
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:39.559
a whole lot of time talking about the life and
464
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:44.759
times of Steve Latimer, what for you was your favorite
465
00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:45.480
part of the movie.
466
00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:49.160
I mean, my favorite part is just and I only
467
00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:51.759
played high school football, so I didn't play college or
468
00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:55.400
anything like that, But is each of the individual characters
469
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:59.720
that you get to know on this team. I felt
470
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:02.519
like I had somebody like that on my team. So
471
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:06.759
it was like I felt close. I felt like nearly
472
00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:10.039
every football team has these types of characters, maybe not
473
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:11.799
to some of the extremes.
474
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:13.640
But Okay, which character do you feel that you knew
475
00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:14.279
someone the most?
476
00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:18.680
Like Alvin? All Right, I played with the dude that
477
00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:23.119
was our middle linebacker that was a shit talker like
478
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:25.240
Alvin right up on the line man. And this was
479
00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:27.680
like high school. You know, you'd like you would come
480
00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:30.319
up and be like, I know your girlfriend, you know,
481
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:32.680
and he's like, oh yeah, you know your girlfriend tastes
482
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:34.880
real sweet the other night. Oh yeah, no, only got
483
00:23:34.920 --> 00:23:36.480
your attention. Now I'm coming after you.
484
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:36.680
You know.
485
00:23:36.799 --> 00:23:38.880
It was like, yes, I'm on the d line and
486
00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:40.759
I'm looking back like, dude.
487
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:47.000
Like maybe calm me down of it, you know. You know.
488
00:23:47.119 --> 00:23:50.400
So you know, like I mean like like those instances,
489
00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:53.359
those football instances you.
490
00:23:53.319 --> 00:23:56.440
Know the city like, yeah, was he was he the
491
00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:58.440
best player on your defense? Yeah?
492
00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:03.839
Yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely yeah, yeah he hands down he was. Okay,
493
00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:05.799
he was he was the best player. So I mean
494
00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:07.640
That's why I think like there was a lot of
495
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:11.119
kinship there to me, you know, like seeing Alvin like
496
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:12.759
that and it, you know, it just reminded me of
497
00:24:12.799 --> 00:24:15.880
the other players, like the Bud. Everybody. I swear every
498
00:24:15.920 --> 00:24:18.880
football team I had ever been on has a player
499
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:20.680
like that, just like the.
500
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:23.119
Big country boy that everyone likes, Joe Vil.
501
00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:27.839
Yeah, exactly, jovial, fun guy that everybody likes that you know,
502
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:30.880
in in the pile, he's going to sing a song,
503
00:24:31.039 --> 00:24:33.000
or he's going to say something about his nuts on
504
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:35.640
somebody's face or something like that. You know, it's just
505
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:39.880
like there's always that one guy that was on that
506
00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:43.400
football team. So it's like I to me it without
507
00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:47.640
being directly in football again and playing football again, it
508
00:24:47.680 --> 00:24:50.319
makes you feel like, you know, almost like your home,
509
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:53.240
like you're back, you're back in your football roots if
510
00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:57.319
you ever played. I think people, I think people would
511
00:24:57.359 --> 00:24:59.279
resonate with that. And that's what That's what at least
512
00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:01.759
resonated with me, is like I understand some of these
513
00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:04.240
players and some of their mentalities because I had played
514
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:05.640
with some of the guys that were kind of.
515
00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:08.160
Like okay, okay, I see what you're saying with that.
516
00:25:08.279 --> 00:25:10.640
I mean, the the Alvin Max story to me is
517
00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:12.799
the heartbreaking part of it was he has.
518
00:25:12.640 --> 00:25:15.240
No storywise yet. I mean that's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah,
519
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:21.119
well so like player wise, player wise definitely story wise. Yeah,
520
00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:23.799
the story of Alvin is you know that's sad.
521
00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.920
Well, it is in a sense, you know, I think
522
00:25:27.960 --> 00:25:31.319
that there is there's part of it where you know
523
00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:34.200
that you can look at a story definitely two different ways,
524
00:25:34.200 --> 00:25:36.519
and there are people that have that. Now where he
525
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:39.480
has his opportunity as a full ride college scholarship, he
526
00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:42.440
could get an education, always put together a plan B
527
00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:45.359
and be smart about things. But when you're that talented
528
00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:47.960
in that grade of football and everybody knows walking in
529
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.519
the door that you're going to go to the NFL,
530
00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:53.160
it is hard to then take college seriously. College is
531
00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:55.920
just the avenue for where you're going to be in
532
00:25:55.920 --> 00:26:00.640
the pros and only in sport. Is that necessarily if
533
00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:04.599
you have someone who is the most talented mathematician ever
534
00:26:05.359 --> 00:26:08.200
or the most you know, talented computer science, computer program wherever.
535
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:10.279
But he just needed he just needed to go through
536
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:12.440
college to get his degree so that he could get
537
00:26:12.519 --> 00:26:16.000
hired for some company, make a make a bunch of money,
538
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:18.759
or it was his method of getting you know, putting
539
00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:21.160
his business together so that you would just say, oh, yeah,
540
00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:22.640
he went all in on that, and that's fine. But
541
00:26:22.680 --> 00:26:25.839
in athletics it's viewed very differently that you should have
542
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:28.599
a plan bby because of this situation, because you can
543
00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:31.839
get injured and then that's it. You know. While while
544
00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:34.119
that same thing can be applied academically, typically at that
545
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:35.960
point your injury would have to be to your brain,
546
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:38.279
which would then be so catastrophic that you know, the
547
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:39.599
fact that you're not going to get the job you
548
00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:42.400
want is the least of your problems, you know, so
549
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:45.319
because you're yeah, if you're if your brain gets injured
550
00:26:45.319 --> 00:26:48.160
to that point, then that that's different. And so it's
551
00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:50.920
it's one of the things where I found it that
552
00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:53.839
the thought process that that that people that have gone
553
00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:57.279
through that have makes some sense. When you know you're
554
00:26:57.319 --> 00:26:59.279
going to you know you're going to make it to
555
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:02.480
the NFL, and there are some players that that know.
556
00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:04.839
The one of the more recent examples I could think
557
00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:07.400
of that happened was Derrick Henry. He was a running
558
00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:10.359
back for Alabama. Uh, this second he walked on campus,
559
00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:13.319
everybody just knew he was passing through and that and
560
00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:16.240
that's it. And so Reggie Bush more famously, when he
561
00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:18.480
came a live, everybody knew he was going to go
562
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:22.440
to the NFL. And so so then from that, when
563
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:24.359
you already have that, and you already have that, it
564
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:25.680
is known. It is kind of the thing of where
565
00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:28.839
it's like, yeah, this is just in effect my four
566
00:27:28.920 --> 00:27:32.799
year training camp before my chosen profession, and that the
567
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:34.920
tragedy is that the injury creates it where now you
568
00:27:34.920 --> 00:27:37.359
can no longer do that that profession. But he took
569
00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:41.279
the academic cut piece so lightly that now he doesn't
570
00:27:41.319 --> 00:27:44.160
have a real education to fall back on. To then
571
00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:46.759
have a you know, a middle class life, he would
572
00:27:46.839 --> 00:27:48.880
need to go, you know, he would have to in
573
00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:50.680
a sense start from scratch.
574
00:27:50.880 --> 00:27:55.599
Right, And I think, you know, it's not the program's responsibility,
575
00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:00.559
but I think this just does show some of the
576
00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:07.000
issues with the program. And I'm using air quotes because
577
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:12.559
the program is after these individuals for their talents, for
578
00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:16.039
what they can provide on the field, and you know,
579
00:28:16.119 --> 00:28:18.759
they support at least in the nineties, and I don't
580
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:20.319
know how true it is now, because you know, I
581
00:28:20.359 --> 00:28:22.559
think the NCAA has changed some things but I'm sure
582
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:25.799
there's way around it. But you know, like the support
583
00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:28.559
of continually having somebody on there that doesn't even have
584
00:28:28.599 --> 00:28:33.000
the equivalent of a high school education. They might have
585
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:34.680
the high school diploma, but they don't have the high
586
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:39.240
school education. They can't even get a placement test for
587
00:28:39.640 --> 00:28:42.160
the college that they're currently representing on their chest every
588
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:46.319
single Saturday, you know. So I think that I think
589
00:28:46.319 --> 00:28:50.519
that's one of the sad aspects of the whole program
590
00:28:50.880 --> 00:28:55.440
portion of football and probably even other sports too, where
591
00:28:56.039 --> 00:29:00.359
you know, somebody is allowed to go and take dancing
592
00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:04.240
or something like that rather than you know, some other
593
00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:06.519
kind of credited class. But I know, like I think
594
00:29:06.559 --> 00:29:09.240
now the NCAAA you have like sixteen credited classes that
595
00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:11.279
you have to pass or something like that.
596
00:29:11.359 --> 00:29:13.920
Yes, are things are have changed some and they're definitely
597
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:16.799
better now than then, I think, you know, but that's
598
00:29:16.799 --> 00:29:18.880
I think the best you can say is they're better.
599
00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:21.920
I don't know that they are necessarily where you would
600
00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:24.079
want them to be in a perfect world. You know.
601
00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:27.039
My my goal early on in college was to play
602
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:30.359
football and major in underwater basket weaving. Turns out that
603
00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:32.200
I was not quite good enough at football to get
604
00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:34.680
that major. So therefore I had to, you know, do
605
00:29:34.759 --> 00:29:38.799
something different. But that while I think that it's definitely
606
00:29:38.839 --> 00:29:41.759
things are better, there's you know, you have the aspects
607
00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:45.200
of it where there's so much money, there's so much
608
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:47.000
money for it, and that how much it drives to
609
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:48.720
school and everything that you can have if you have
610
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:52.000
if you have a talented enough player, you know, they
611
00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:54.200
have a lot of resources. They have all that tutoring,
612
00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:56.799
all that is real, all that is there that the
613
00:29:56.880 --> 00:30:00.240
tutors sometimes in the football that the tutors travel with
614
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:02.359
the team sometimes where it's like they you know, they
615
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:06.039
it's all about making sure these kids get enough to
616
00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:09.640
get through their classes and get through it whatever whatever
617
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:12.279
it takes to make that happen. That's what That's what happens.
618
00:30:12.279 --> 00:30:15.440
Whether or not they truly form and get the education
619
00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:18.960
out of it, it depends, you know. And I think
620
00:30:19.039 --> 00:30:23.200
that football is one of the worst offenders of this
621
00:30:23.400 --> 00:30:27.440
because of the amount of time and priority that the
622
00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:33.440
football takes over uh, these athletes lives, you know. And
623
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:36.240
one of the things that that I think is even
624
00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:38.599
anecdotally where I think things are better, but not necessarily
625
00:30:38.599 --> 00:30:41.720
that the best is there are times when you watch
626
00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:44.200
a football game afterwards, when the football players interviewed and
627
00:30:44.279 --> 00:30:48.480
you look listen to how they talk, very rarely you
628
00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:51.920
just don't find college educated people that still talk this way,
629
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:54.440
you know, And so then that that's kind of telling
630
00:30:54.440 --> 00:30:57.400
you that that part of their education, that aspect of
631
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:00.640
their education wasn't always there. Now there there are definite
632
00:31:01.160 --> 00:31:03.359
I think now it is less the norm and more
633
00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:06.079
the exception. But I think when I say that, when
634
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:08.759
I say that there are certain football players when they
635
00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:10.519
start talking and you're like, well, who talks this way
636
00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:13.240
with a college degree? You know, we we all know
637
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:16.559
examples of it, I think that there's fewer now. But then,
638
00:31:16.839 --> 00:31:19.039
but part of me thinks that there's fewer because social
639
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:22.599
media and the and and really social media and media
640
00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:24.559
in general has become such a big part of it
641
00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:27.720
that in effect, that is now part of their football
642
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:31.160
education is how to communicate better because you need to
643
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:33.400
have more, you know, more followers, more likes, more of
644
00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:35.559
a social media presence that it gets your sponsorships and
645
00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:37.200
your deals and all that and that, and that becomes
646
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:39.799
the more part of the education. So it happens less now.
647
00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:42.559
But but but I still think that that doesn't mean
648
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:46.559
that they are getting a true education because they're not.
649
00:31:46.759 --> 00:31:50.000
They're not really allowed to be students because they're they're
650
00:31:50.119 --> 00:31:52.119
away from class there, they are separate, they are a
651
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:53.680
part they're not in the quad. They don't just hang
652
00:31:53.720 --> 00:31:55.960
out with everybody else. And so when you live this
653
00:31:56.039 --> 00:31:59.599
whole separate life, it's it is. It is a college experience,
654
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:02.400
but it is different than the college experience that most
655
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:03.279
people go through.
656
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:06.759
Yeah, it's inclusive and exclusive all at the same time,
657
00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:11.880
and you're just a hot commodity and you're just yeah,
658
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:15.920
I mean, you're sheltered from the full experience, unfortunately, because
659
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:17.640
you're needing to be able to perform at a high
660
00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:21.960
degree level on the field or whatever sport it may be.
661
00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:28.000
I'm sure other sports have still the same different expectations.
662
00:32:28.039 --> 00:32:31.200
It seems like football players and the football programs typically
663
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:36.000
have a lesser expectation than say, like gymnasts, for example,
664
00:32:36.039 --> 00:32:39.279
because I think some you know, there's no money in gymnastics, right,
665
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:41.240
there's no money in gymnastics, And I think like in
666
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:43.559
this past Olympics, if I remember correctly, it was either
667
00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:48.519
gymnastics or maybe it was synchronized swimming or something, but
668
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:51.200
there was somebody that was currently going to college and
669
00:32:51.400 --> 00:32:54.000
like all of her bills were due and she was
670
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:56.000
going to get kicked out of her at a her
671
00:32:56.079 --> 00:32:58.559
dorm because she wasn't up on our dorm rent or
672
00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:00.880
something like that. And then so he pitched in and
673
00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:04.319
got her all leveled up with the with the college,
674
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:06.279
and it was like, well, kind of shame on the college.
675
00:33:06.279 --> 00:33:10.039
Here she is representing the country with an opportunity or
676
00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:14.000
the you know, our whole our whole country, and here's
677
00:33:14.039 --> 00:33:15.839
an opportunity that you could have been like, hey, look,
678
00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:19.319
we're the college, and we support this person who goes
679
00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:22.640
to our college, you know insert college name here, who
680
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.000
is now representing the whole country. You know, we love
681
00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:27.160
we love this person, right, And it was just like
682
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:31.039
there was no like no love for a lesser sport
683
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:33.480
versus football, because it seems like football is always going
684
00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:34.519
to get the love.
685
00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:38.119
Yeah, but I don't I wouldn't put that on the college.
686
00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:39.880
You know, at the end of the day, the university
687
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:42.000
is doing this as far as the double standard that
688
00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:44.640
occurs with football and basketball, mostly because they hey, those
689
00:33:44.680 --> 00:33:48.160
those sports make money, and and so because those sports
690
00:33:48.200 --> 00:33:50.960
make money, then it's going to be Yeah, we we
691
00:33:51.000 --> 00:33:53.720
support them differently. The fact that that's uh, you know,
692
00:33:53.799 --> 00:33:56.920
even in your story you describe, I mean the ignoring
693
00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:01.039
that we even remember I hadn't heard that story, so
694
00:34:01.160 --> 00:34:03.920
ignoring that you didn't know who it was. We don't
695
00:34:03.960 --> 00:34:05.759
know what college it was either, and so it doesn't
696
00:34:06.000 --> 00:34:09.199
So if the college were to forgive her that debt,
697
00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:11.880
then yes, that would be great. But at the same time,
698
00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:14.280
it is special treatment because she happened to be an
699
00:34:14.320 --> 00:34:18.239
an Olympic athlete. And also there's no benefits to the school,
700
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:20.639
you know, the fact that she went to the school
701
00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:23.000
that doesn't it's not going to be a recruiting tool.
702
00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:24.519
No one's going to pay the school or any money
703
00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:27.559
for that or anything. So I understand from the school's
704
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:30.320
perspective to not necessarily just out and out forgive that
705
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:32.880
and to have it where someone needs to then you know,
706
00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:35.559
pay for it. But you know, that's I think that
707
00:34:35.599 --> 00:34:38.320
also speaks to just the astronomical cost of college now,
708
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:41.960
where it just it's ridiculous how much it costs now
709
00:34:42.000 --> 00:34:45.440
in comparison to how it costs even Yeah, oh, I
710
00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:51.199
know even know exactly I'm learning, you know, even just
711
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:53.239
twenty years you know, twenty years ago and how much
712
00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:56.599
cheaper college was to from then to now, right, And
713
00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:58.280
so I think that's that would be a part of
714
00:34:58.280 --> 00:35:01.679
that as well. But you know, just getting back to
715
00:35:01.719 --> 00:35:05.679
the to discuss some of the different storylines of this movie,
716
00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:08.719
since there are so many really good archetypes. The coach
717
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:11.159
one is really kind of just boil play coach. He's
718
00:35:11.159 --> 00:35:14.840
just trying to win the program, and he's he's morally fungible.
719
00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:18.280
But what did you think of what was purportedly the
720
00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:21.760
main story, which is the one about Joe Kine and
721
00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:27.079
our heisman would be quarterback and his basically trials and
722
00:35:27.079 --> 00:35:28.159
tribulations with alcohol.
723
00:35:28.920 --> 00:35:30.920
It is what it is. It's a nineties movie. It's
724
00:35:30.960 --> 00:35:34.519
a nineties movie. The whole drunk thing seem to be
725
00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:37.880
like a big, big thing that was coming out for
726
00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:41.760
those soft, touchy feely type moments. I think, I don't know.
727
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:44.559
I think I think the storyline honestly, especially with the
728
00:35:44.559 --> 00:35:50.159
weirdness with how he reacted with his quote unquote girlfriend
729
00:35:50.639 --> 00:35:52.960
throughout the whole relationship, I think it just would have
730
00:35:52.960 --> 00:35:58.280
been better like he was I mean I was gay, yes, No,
731
00:35:58.400 --> 00:35:59.800
I mean seriously, you think it was like.
732
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:01.840
Struggling with his sexuality and wanted to come.
733
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:04.000
Out, yeah, rather than struggling with the fact that he
734
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:06.880
was also you know, an alcoholic and he came from
735
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:09.880
a you know, long line of alcoholics. You know. I mean,
736
00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:12.400
it was like that that storyline has been played out
737
00:36:12.440 --> 00:36:16.079
so much and then like if you insert an alcoholism
738
00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:18.159
and you insert like, you know it struggle with like,
739
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:20.599
you know, maybe he's gay, then then it fits a
740
00:36:20.599 --> 00:36:23.119
little bit better with some of the awkward his girlfriend
741
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:26.039
considering that, you know, considering that he doesn't even know
742
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:28.159
her name, or at least we don't know her name
743
00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:29.840
until she calls him from reab.
744
00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:33.400
So well, yeah, I figure rehab is a good time
745
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:39.079
to meet, right. But I guess though that while I mean,
746
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:40.960
I guess, are you going more for the interesting story,
747
00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:44.280
because that would not really apply because, especially in the
748
00:36:44.360 --> 00:36:47.199
nineties and football, if it turned out he was gay,
749
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:49.639
he just get thrown off the team like it doesn't matter,
750
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:55.440
you know, and you know, there's still a begrudging acceptance
751
00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:58.440
of it. Now, there are so few openly gay football
752
00:36:58.440 --> 00:37:01.239
players at the high levels that you know it and
753
00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:04.119
even now that and when I say this, a few,
754
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:07.039
I believe you can count them on one hand, but
755
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:09.360
I'm not sure that, Like I want to say there
756
00:37:09.480 --> 00:37:11.280
one or two that have come out and that are
757
00:37:11.320 --> 00:37:14.440
staying out and playing, but like there's like I can't,
758
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:16.480
I can't definitively say that that's true. And so then
759
00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:19.920
there's an aspect of where as a general movie, you'd
760
00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:23.719
be going into an area of oh they So either
761
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:25.159
you're going to make a story about someone who is
762
00:37:25.239 --> 00:37:29.599
hiding their sexuality and saying that thing, or you would say, hey,
763
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:31.679
they all find out and they threw them off the team. Okay,
764
00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:32.280
let's move on.
765
00:37:33.800 --> 00:37:35.960
No, he was hiding it and it was the awkwardness
766
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.719
of his, uh, with his relationship with this lady.
767
00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:41.639
Okay, you're definitely rewriting this story.
768
00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:44.639
I'm I just rewrote it. But okay, let's just let's
769
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:47.800
rewind a little bit. Okay, Yeah, it's the whole alcoholic
770
00:37:48.400 --> 00:37:52.039
aspect of it all, you know, it's I mean, I
771
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:55.280
guess it fits. That fits the pressures of somebody who's
772
00:37:55.320 --> 00:37:59.559
going to be the the I almost said cy young
773
00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:01.760
baseball mind.
774
00:38:02.559 --> 00:38:04.199
Well do you feel that it has to deal with
775
00:38:04.239 --> 00:38:05.519
that he has imposter syndrome?
776
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:10.800
Well, I mean no, Now you say it like that, sure, Okay.
777
00:38:12.079 --> 00:38:14.440
And that you know, like that, maybe that's why, then
778
00:38:15.079 --> 00:38:18.880
what's alcohol? Because he never believed in himself.
779
00:38:19.119 --> 00:38:21.800
Right, yeah, he's and he's always looking for the acceptance
780
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:24.000
of his dad and always looking over his shoulder, like
781
00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:26.159
you know, anyway, haven't you ever played in the game
782
00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:28.280
with me, dad? Or haven't played in a game? Why
783
00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:31.239
haven't you watched me play play a game? Why haven't
784
00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:33.039
you watched me play in any of my game's? Dad?
785
00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:36.519
You know, when he get in his final visit, on
786
00:38:36.519 --> 00:38:38.280
his final visit with his dad, it's the last time
787
00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:40.880
we're going to ask you, right, always.
788
00:38:40.559 --> 00:38:43.639
Looking for except yeah, yes, but I guess the bottom
789
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:47.960
line event is that that story, that storyline or that yeah,
790
00:38:47.960 --> 00:38:49.480
that storyline did not then appeal to you.
791
00:38:50.840 --> 00:38:54.840
It didn't, not really And like I said, I mean
792
00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:56.639
for me, it's just played out, and I mean there
793
00:38:56.719 --> 00:38:59.239
wasn't really a whole lot into it. I was confused.
794
00:38:59.360 --> 00:39:03.400
Was his dad in the same city that the college was?
795
00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:05.639
And then like all of a sudden, his last visit
796
00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:07.679
with his dad, because you know earlier visits he's laying
797
00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:09.440
on the couch and all that, and you know it
798
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:10.840
was right before the season starts.
799
00:39:11.119 --> 00:39:13.679
He's definitely not because there's a plane ticket involved when
800
00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:15.320
he goes, and then he goes, he says, there's a
801
00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:17.119
plane ticket to the game, and the game is a
802
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:19.360
home game exactly. Some means he had to have five
803
00:39:19.400 --> 00:39:21.320
plane to get there. So so he was able to
804
00:39:22.159 --> 00:39:24.920
travel and get a plane ticket home during the rehab
805
00:39:24.920 --> 00:39:27.320
stint somehow, which you know, there's a lot of money
806
00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:29.800
floating around. So well, I mean, look at the end
807
00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:31.519
of the day, there's there's parts of that where you
808
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:33.679
have to kind of suspend believe because like that motorcycle
809
00:39:33.679 --> 00:39:35.199
he's riding as a Harley that was that was a
810
00:39:35.199 --> 00:39:38.280
twenty thousand dollars bike, you know, and so what call it?
811
00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:40.880
What cause dude was running around rolling around in that thing.
812
00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:43.880
Does that implay? Then that's somebody from the Booster club
813
00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:46.199
is like, hey, you know what do you like to ride?
814
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:48.679
Are you a car or motorcycle guy? You know, we
815
00:39:48.760 --> 00:39:50.400
just don't get to see it. Yeah, you just get
816
00:39:50.480 --> 00:39:50.920
to see that.
817
00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:54.039
But I think it more than implies it. You know
818
00:39:54.079 --> 00:39:56.559
when they when they give the money to the players
819
00:39:56.599 --> 00:39:59.199
at the dinners afterwards, you know, doing that and that's
820
00:39:59.199 --> 00:40:01.480
just like almost like the have to tip money. Uh,
821
00:40:01.519 --> 00:40:04.920
you know, there is a really big implication that they
822
00:40:05.039 --> 00:40:07.960
are being given a lot of different things and and
823
00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:10.440
that and that has been true in history. There was
824
00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:12.639
it was in the eighties when Eric Dickerson came to
825
00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:15.400
the and I realized, I'm pulling out an old name.
826
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:16.960
You got to be a certain age know who Eric
827
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:22.159
Dickerson was, But exactly, yeah, Ericson. Yeah, one of the
828
00:40:22.159 --> 00:40:24.800
greatest running backs ever. But he came to college at
829
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:28.159
s m U where was you were driving a brand
830
00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:31.480
new Thunderbird and you know, he grew up very boor
831
00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:34.320
and so it's like, well, how do you get this, Well,
832
00:40:34.360 --> 00:40:40.360
it's like, how do you think he got Yeah, right, so, yes, exactly, so, yes,
833
00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:44.840
I think that, uh, they are definitely communicating that the
834
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:47.639
players were getting money and that they were being given guests.
835
00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:49.679
That's how we could fly back and forth from home,
836
00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:51.800
and that's how he could, uh well, at least at
837
00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:55.840
that time, flying home for Christmas. I don't think that's rare. Well,
838
00:40:55.920 --> 00:40:58.159
let me phrase that, that is not rare, but you know
839
00:40:58.199 --> 00:41:00.360
that that's that's a normal thing that people do that,
840
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:02.960
you know, to fly back home for Christmas. But uh,
841
00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:05.039
the fact that he kind of he could just get
842
00:41:05.119 --> 00:41:08.079
up and fly home. Uh when you know, when he
843
00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:09.159
was in the middle of the rehab, in the middle
844
00:41:09.159 --> 00:41:11.320
of the season, that doesn' imply that someone was you know,
845
00:41:11.480 --> 00:41:14.039
he was getting money from somewhere and it wasn't from home.
846
00:41:14.480 --> 00:41:16.039
Yeah, I guess we weren't. We didn't need to be
847
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:19.320
concerned with the how or or anything like that. But yeah,
848
00:41:19.360 --> 00:41:24.119
still it's uh, yeah, I just the whole his whole storyline.
849
00:41:24.119 --> 00:41:26.239
I just I don't know, it just didn't really jive
850
00:41:26.320 --> 00:41:31.199
with me and I you know, and in no particular reason,
851
00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:34.639
but it's just I just didn't like it, including his
852
00:41:34.920 --> 00:41:38.079
relationship with Camille.
853
00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:40.920
Yes, and yeah, with that didn't need to leave it
854
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:44.079
exactly which which was she was just the girl? And
855
00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:46.480
I felt that that, you know, definitely is part of
856
00:41:46.480 --> 00:41:48.960
this movie, which is what this movie is portraying as
857
00:41:49.000 --> 00:41:51.239
different things, because you had two girls who were just
858
00:41:51.400 --> 00:41:53.960
the girl. You know, there was what you can argue
859
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:55.719
three there, you know, Camille Schaeffer, who was you know,
860
00:41:55.760 --> 00:41:58.519
played by Christie Swanson. And then in in something that
861
00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:01.039
I totally forgot about that Holley's in this movie.
862
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:03.920
Yeah, I totally forgot to exactly.
863
00:42:04.000 --> 00:42:08.440
Yeah, yeah, they're playing Autumn Haley, so so Holly Berry
864
00:42:08.559 --> 00:42:12.960
is like Autumn Haley. Yeah, yeah, so, but you know,
865
00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:15.679
playing that where in both cases the girls in effect
866
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:17.960
are just the girls, because Autumn Haley or Halle Berry's
867
00:42:18.000 --> 00:42:20.920
character actually has a bit more agency. She's pretty smart,
868
00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:23.320
she's real helpful, she's tutoring up that she has definitely
869
00:42:23.360 --> 00:42:25.519
ways that she's going to be moving forward in life.
870
00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:29.599
But that really in the context of both of these
871
00:42:29.880 --> 00:42:32.440
the male characters in it, that instead of you know,
872
00:42:32.559 --> 00:42:35.519
having a type of relationship that could produce you know,
873
00:42:35.639 --> 00:42:38.920
an Adrian moment, that really they're just the girls, They're
874
00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:41.559
just yeah, they're just the girls. One of them is
875
00:42:41.599 --> 00:42:45.880
just like Camille is basically just the girlfriend that happens
876
00:42:45.880 --> 00:42:47.920
to be there because you know, the plot demands a girlfriend,
877
00:42:48.320 --> 00:42:51.800
and Audum Haley's character seems to be more like a
878
00:42:51.880 --> 00:42:55.639
prize that needs to be one than a real you know,
879
00:42:55.800 --> 00:42:58.800
partner slash relationship or anything that they're trying to forge
880
00:42:58.960 --> 00:43:00.920
with that.
881
00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:02.800
True, yeah, it's the prize at the end of the
882
00:43:02.800 --> 00:43:05.440
prize at the end of the rainbow to pass your
883
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:09.800
tests and you get me. No, But the whole Cameale
884
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:15.519
thing though, like that whole beginning of the relationship is
885
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:19.360
so Caveman asked, she's there working out, and he's like,
886
00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:25.119
so you towed it up. And it's just like it's
887
00:43:25.159 --> 00:43:28.920
like the worst of the worst of ninety portrayals, like
888
00:43:29.559 --> 00:43:32.519
you know, no introduction, no nothing, all right, so when
889
00:43:32.559 --> 00:43:34.239
you're done, you want to go get a beer, you know,
890
00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:37.559
and she's like, I don't date I don't date football players.
891
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:42.280
Just I'm sorry. Just like that whole interaction is just
892
00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:45.119
like it's it's ridiculous.
893
00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:46.920
Okay, okay, ver enough.
894
00:43:48.280 --> 00:43:50.800
And then and then their whole relationship is just like
895
00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:53.760
cave Man, it's like he came by, grabbed her by
896
00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:57.159
the hair, plunked her with the club. He's like, you, girlfriend,
897
00:43:57.239 --> 00:44:02.480
now we drink beer later, just dragged her across en
898
00:44:02.599 --> 00:44:04.719
scene like you could have just done that.
899
00:44:05.440 --> 00:44:08.039
So then is the the motorcycle ride at the beginning
900
00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:10.119
that does him, That is him clubbing over the head
901
00:44:10.239 --> 00:44:14.079
and making uh making him making her his girlfriend, like
902
00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:16.519
just you know, like that's the that's that scene.
903
00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:19.760
No, the club, and I mean it's just that's at
904
00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:21.360
the gym. I mean it's just like.
905
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:25.760
Oh yeah, yeah, early on.
906
00:44:26.920 --> 00:44:30.920
No, No, the ridiculousness of jumping the shark, the literal
907
00:44:31.039 --> 00:44:33.480
jump into the shark scene of.
908
00:44:33.639 --> 00:44:37.280
The Yeah, when he jumps jumps the bike, I mean goodness,
909
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:41.280
that's just wow. Yeah. When I saw that, I was like,
910
00:44:41.320 --> 00:44:45.360
that is so reckless and dangerous on so many levels
911
00:44:45.360 --> 00:44:48.199
that like, like to to do that and actually make
912
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:51.320
it out okay, is just in that scenario dumb luck.
913
00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:54.440
There's no way you're not good enough to pull that off.
914
00:44:54.480 --> 00:44:56.320
That is just straight up dumb luck. That you're on
915
00:44:56.480 --> 00:44:59.719
gravel on a motorcycle. Hey, you're able to jump off
916
00:44:59.760 --> 00:45:02.719
of and you know, cage into a one level to
917
00:45:02.760 --> 00:45:05.119
another and then stop in time before you go off
918
00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:08.079
of a cliff in a rock quarry. It's like, yeah,
919
00:45:08.119 --> 00:45:09.840
this is all just dumb luck. They're able to make
920
00:45:09.880 --> 00:45:10.320
it happen.
921
00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:12.880
Yeah, No, it was it. I mean it just made
922
00:45:12.920 --> 00:45:15.800
me think of the whole Happy Days episode, as you know,
923
00:45:15.880 --> 00:45:17.559
to why they coined the phrase jump.
924
00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:20.199
The sharts, you know, so yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
925
00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:22.159
It just it just it made it. That's it made
926
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:24.480
me just think of that, and I mean so it
927
00:45:24.639 --> 00:45:26.960
just to me just added to the ridiculousness of that
928
00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:30.159
just that whole story. I know, you have to have something,
929
00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:33.639
but like it needed and a whole another to me,
930
00:45:33.679 --> 00:45:36.679
it just needed a whole nother subplot because like they're
931
00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:39.960
they're not even building a relationship. He's just showing that
932
00:45:40.079 --> 00:45:42.719
he's just you know, like I always got to be
933
00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:45.840
on the edge, you know, like everything, so I just
934
00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:47.599
always got to be on the edge. Well all right,
935
00:45:47.639 --> 00:45:51.079
well it's because you're an alcoholic too, so you know,
936
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:55.679
like I don't know, it was just you jumped the shark.
937
00:45:55.960 --> 00:46:02.320
Okay, Okay. So the this movie, which I think a
938
00:46:02.360 --> 00:46:04.760
lot of the value of it is that it's it's
939
00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:08.119
it's a bunch of archetypes, and it has different ways
940
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:11.199
of you know, showing different aspects and discussing different things
941
00:46:11.199 --> 00:46:13.840
about college football. And I think that that is part
942
00:46:13.880 --> 00:46:15.440
of what benefits it as far as being able to
943
00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:20.760
consume it. But then into all that preamble there was
944
00:46:20.800 --> 00:46:23.079
to say, and then the last one that I the
945
00:46:23.159 --> 00:46:25.559
last archetype that I really wanted to touch on before
946
00:46:25.559 --> 00:46:28.199
we talk about the over arching thing is as Darnell Jefferson,
947
00:46:28.280 --> 00:46:30.480
and that his archetype is, you know, he's the guy
948
00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:32.599
from the wrong side of the tracks. He has some talent,
949
00:46:32.639 --> 00:46:34.199
and he's trying to make his life better. You know,
950
00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:36.760
he had he had personal tragedies with his parents. They're
951
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:39.559
both they are both dead, although there were two different
952
00:46:39.559 --> 00:46:41.440
stories about how that was told, one of which was
953
00:46:41.679 --> 00:46:43.280
the true one and the other one which was you know,
954
00:46:43.719 --> 00:46:46.280
played for comedic relief because he was messing with Autumn
955
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:50.599
about it. But that he's you know, he's talented, he's
956
00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:53.039
not quite academically where he needs to be, so he
957
00:46:53.079 --> 00:46:55.519
needs some remedial courses and some tutoring, but he is
958
00:46:55.599 --> 00:46:59.000
trying to be better, you know, like and part of him,
959
00:47:00.039 --> 00:47:02.320
you know, when that the I think a lot of
960
00:47:02.360 --> 00:47:05.920
these characters, let me phrase that. I think all of
961
00:47:05.960 --> 00:47:09.960
these characters, all of the archetype characters, really demonstrate or
962
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:12.599
tell you that is a better word. They tell you
963
00:47:12.639 --> 00:47:16.159
who they are. In that scene where they're asked what
964
00:47:16.199 --> 00:47:17.960
they love about college football, what the most proud of
965
00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:20.239
out of you know, in life.
966
00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:23.079
Yeah, Pride Night the team Pride.
967
00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:26.280
Exactly exactly, which was a look as a movie trope
968
00:47:26.280 --> 00:47:28.440
and everything that quite honestly was super motivating, And after
969
00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:30.079
it was done, I was like, I am totally inspired
970
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:34.760
and ready to play some football, you know, was like yeah,
971
00:47:34.840 --> 00:47:38.719
I was like, yeah, let's let's let's go through. Yeah, Yeah,
972
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:42.840
I was Yeah, I was it really as a movie
973
00:47:42.840 --> 00:47:46.159
and everything that that that whole scene totally worked for me.
974
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:48.800
But then for Darnell, you know, his thing that he
975
00:47:48.880 --> 00:47:50.800
was proud of that he was you know that he
976
00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:52.960
was just there and that he was he wasn't just
977
00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:56.199
a statistic and I think that that was and his
978
00:47:56.280 --> 00:48:00.719
story is the really the only truly up lifting story
979
00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:03.320
of the whole thing where you know something think about it,
980
00:48:03.360 --> 00:48:06.639
because you really have you know, of the four main stories,
981
00:48:06.719 --> 00:48:09.679
you know, Latimer is struggling with his demons and never
982
00:48:09.719 --> 00:48:12.079
really truly fully overcomes them in order to get to
983
00:48:12.119 --> 00:48:15.119
be what he wants. Alvin Mack gets injured and so
984
00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:20.519
his life is definitely it's altered. His life is altered
985
00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:22.400
and not going to go the way he wanted to go.
986
00:48:23.400 --> 00:48:25.280
You can argue that Joe Kane is a bit of
987
00:48:25.320 --> 00:48:28.639
the redemption story. You know, where he was he's on
988
00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:31.159
top of the world. He messes up, you know, messes
989
00:48:31.239 --> 00:48:32.800
things up, and he's the in rehab and then he
990
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:35.400
comes back and helps him you know, helps him win
991
00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:37.039
the big game at the end so they can qualify
992
00:48:37.079 --> 00:48:40.599
for a Bowl. Although interestingly enough, he's only a junior
993
00:48:40.760 --> 00:48:42.239
and so they're saying that he's going to come back
994
00:48:42.280 --> 00:48:44.760
the following year, where that was like, okay, so he's
995
00:48:44.800 --> 00:48:47.320
you know, he really has another chance of redemption. But
996
00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:51.079
Darnell was really more the uplifting, the trying to be
997
00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:54.719
and you can think in some ways he's representing the
998
00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:58.400
you know, representation of the audience where he's the he's new,
999
00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:00.960
he's learning where things are, he does know how things work,
1000
00:49:01.039 --> 00:49:03.920
and that he's just trying to be, for lack of
1001
00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:06.280
a better term, normal, you know, he just wants to
1002
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:08.800
come play football, get his degree, and try to make
1003
00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:10.760
his life better. Like I don't know that he has
1004
00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:13.239
aspirations for the pros because he's not yet said that
1005
00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:16.039
he's you know, you would think he does, because any
1006
00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:18.440
player that you know gets a scholarship at that level,
1007
00:49:18.519 --> 00:49:20.440
you think that that would be part of their their
1008
00:49:20.480 --> 00:49:22.679
plan in their head. But that but he seemed to
1009
00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:24.400
be much more that direct. Hey, I'm just trying to
1010
00:49:24.440 --> 00:49:26.559
make things better and then you know, then put in
1011
00:49:26.599 --> 00:49:28.599
the love triangle. So that was at least that's what
1012
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:31.039
I thought. Did that come across that way to you
1013
00:49:31.119 --> 00:49:33.280
or did you view his character differently than he was
1014
00:49:33.360 --> 00:49:36.199
just be up with you know, trying to upward mobility characters.
1015
00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:38.440
Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't really take it that
1016
00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:41.320
way at all. Yeah, I just I, you know, took
1017
00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:44.440
it from kid from the wrong side of the tracks
1018
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:49.280
had an opportunity to play football as a freshman, right
1019
00:49:50.840 --> 00:49:52.559
and start. I mean that was the whole selling point
1020
00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:53.079
from coach.
1021
00:49:53.480 --> 00:49:54.639
Yes, yeah, exactly.
1022
00:49:54.800 --> 00:49:56.599
You know, hey you can you can go to Michigan,
1023
00:49:56.719 --> 00:49:58.320
but you're not going to be able to play much,
1024
00:49:58.400 --> 00:50:00.320
you know, in two years. But you come over. We're here,
1025
00:50:00.320 --> 00:50:01.360
and we'll get you to play.
1026
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:06.039
You know, we even start playing, which he never does. No,
1027
00:50:06.079 --> 00:50:08.760
he plays, he never starts. Yeah, he plays, but he
1028
00:50:08.840 --> 00:50:13.320
never starts. The last game, the last game he starts. Yeah,
1029
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:15.440
the last game he starts. Yeah, yeah, because they switch
1030
00:50:15.480 --> 00:50:19.280
it up, well he starts, yeah, right, he starts in
1031
00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:21.519
so far as he's yeah, So I guess that's that's
1032
00:50:21.519 --> 00:50:23.360
still is true. He is still starting. He got to
1033
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:26.000
play throughout the season, but he's starting, and so and
1034
00:50:26.119 --> 00:50:27.960
and the other guy that Ray Griffin. I think that
1035
00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:31.239
was one of the things that so for me, I
1036
00:50:32.079 --> 00:50:34.000
guess for me, that was the one of the things
1037
00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.480
that I had a bit of a clip quibble with
1038
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:40.320
as far as quibble. Yes, that was my quibble, Like
1039
00:50:40.599 --> 00:50:44.239
I had, I had a a bone.
1040
00:50:44.039 --> 00:50:50.119
To pick, as they say about about the exactly Yes, yes, yes,
1041
00:50:51.000 --> 00:50:54.519
I did not appreciate the way this is being portrayed that.
1042
00:50:56.840 --> 00:50:58.920
I did. I didn't like that Ray Griffin was the
1043
00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:01.719
bad guy, uh in Darnell's story. Right, So because of
1044
00:51:01.800 --> 00:51:04.400
her story is that, you know, the football end of
1045
00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:06.320
it is one thing, but the other part of it
1046
00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:09.039
is And part of where I think that the Autumn
1047
00:51:09.079 --> 00:51:10.679
Haley character is one that I just kind of go
1048
00:51:10.760 --> 00:51:12.440
back and forth on what I feel about her. Was
1049
00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:15.960
is she something that is she uh, you know, because
1050
00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:17.760
she's a smart and capable person in this Is she
1051
00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:20.159
a strong woman with agency that's going to helping someone
1052
00:51:20.199 --> 00:51:22.639
along or she just the prized to be one? And
1053
00:51:22.719 --> 00:51:24.239
so it felt at the end that she was surprized
1054
00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:25.840
to be one because they put it in the love
1055
00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:28.559
triangle where she was with her boyfriend Ray Griffin and
1056
00:51:28.599 --> 00:51:30.519
that you know, in effect, he was the bad guy.
1057
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:33.639
He was he cheated on her with a with a
1058
00:51:33.679 --> 00:51:36.880
white girl, which I thought that was so nineties to
1059
00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:40.280
say it was a white girl. I was like, whirl,
1060
00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:42.480
So if it was a black girl, that would have
1061
00:51:42.519 --> 00:51:45.239
been fine, Like, you know, then it'd be like, well,
1062
00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:47.400
at least it was with another sister, So I'm fine
1063
00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:50.559
now with that, you know. So like but like like
1064
00:51:50.599 --> 00:51:53.079
you know, she was like it's almost like she basically
1065
00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:55.039
was like, girl, he cheerd on me with a white girl.
1066
00:51:55.079 --> 00:51:59.199
You can't believe that, you know, so you know so exactly,
1067
00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:01.760
you know, so the so that that part of it
1068
00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:05.159
was so nineties to throw that little tibbot in, but
1069
00:52:05.199 --> 00:52:08.800
anyway that he cheated on her, and and he effectively
1070
00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:12.559
is being portrayed throughout the movie as like like a
1071
00:52:12.599 --> 00:52:14.840
bad person or a horrible bully or something, and it's like,
1072
00:52:14.880 --> 00:52:18.280
so wait, so he's really an educated black guy. He's
1073
00:52:18.320 --> 00:52:20.320
able to play tailback and it's gonna go pre med
1074
00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:23.480
and be really good in school and the like. It's like, look,
1075
00:52:23.559 --> 00:52:25.320
if you don't want to date him or something, I
1076
00:52:25.440 --> 00:52:28.239
get that, but like to the way he was portrayed
1077
00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:30.840
and even his you know, the character shortcomings about like
1078
00:52:30.880 --> 00:52:33.320
you know, purposely missing the block or trying to do
1079
00:52:33.360 --> 00:52:36.239
things to sabotage things, you know, try to sabotage Darnell's
1080
00:52:36.280 --> 00:52:38.599
journey and all that. There's there are some aspects of
1081
00:52:38.599 --> 00:52:40.440
that that I think from a competitors standpoint, do make
1082
00:52:40.519 --> 00:52:43.440
some sense, but they they basically you know, painting him
1083
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:45.480
as a person that even though he was you know,
1084
00:52:45.519 --> 00:52:49.079
highly educated, didn't need football, you know, for this, right
1085
00:52:49.079 --> 00:52:51.320
because he was just football for him was he was
1086
00:52:51.320 --> 00:52:52.880
doing it. He was good at it, he liked it,
1087
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:54.800
he liked his position. But like he was going on
1088
00:52:54.840 --> 00:52:57.039
to med school, he had no aspirations for the NFL,
1089
00:52:57.039 --> 00:52:59.440
and he doesn't need this, you know. And but but
1090
00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:02.599
that why then then he's gonna be the bad person
1091
00:53:02.599 --> 00:53:04.840
because he's you know, the And I think that my
1092
00:53:04.920 --> 00:53:06.599
problem with it was it's like, well, so wait, we
1093
00:53:06.679 --> 00:53:10.000
have the one educated black dude in this movie and
1094
00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:13.039
he's the one we're looking down on where you know,
1095
00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:16.599
where Darnelle is using all these big words incorrectly and
1096
00:53:18.039 --> 00:53:20.280
it sounded like an idiot, and he's the and he's
1097
00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:22.079
the good guy you know, in the story. And I
1098
00:53:22.400 --> 00:53:26.119
just I found that I find that in movies. I
1099
00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:28.960
mean there's something that's still it's still has done sometimes now.
1100
00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:31.079
But I think in these movies where it's like, well
1101
00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:34.360
you really only had as far as black male characters
1102
00:53:34.360 --> 00:53:36.559
and there's three main ones, there's you know, Darnell, Alvin
1103
00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:39.719
and uh and Ray Griffin and that you know, Darnell
1104
00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:43.360
is you know, he's he's not quite there mentally, but
1105
00:53:43.400 --> 00:53:45.119
trying as far as education and all that and everything,
1106
00:53:45.159 --> 00:53:48.679
he's in the big words incorrectly. Alvin is uh, you know,
1107
00:53:49.079 --> 00:53:50.960
he reads the level of a fourth grader and had
1108
00:53:50.960 --> 00:53:52.599
to be taught that. His shoes say the word of
1109
00:53:52.639 --> 00:53:56.119
DNUS on them, you know. But he's an amazing athlete,
1110
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:58.079
so therefore he's fine. But then then Ray Griffin, who
1111
00:53:58.119 --> 00:54:00.000
was like, no, he's educated, dude, he's gonna be fine,
1112
00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:01.800
and he's gonna go off. He's you know, live, he's
1113
00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:03.880
gonna have a successful life. He doesn't need football to
1114
00:54:03.960 --> 00:54:06.400
be a successful person. And then he's the one that
1115
00:54:06.519 --> 00:54:09.039
is like Noll, but you're, you know, even though even
1116
00:54:09.079 --> 00:54:11.119
though you have all these other qualities that we that
1117
00:54:11.119 --> 00:54:14.039
that should be positive, you're still this negative person that
1118
00:54:14.079 --> 00:54:17.400
you can't you know, you you're petty and vindictive and
1119
00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:19.760
and and you cheat on Holly Bay with a white woman,
1120
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:22.639
you know, and so therefore therefore you're bad, you know.
1121
00:54:22.719 --> 00:54:25.239
And so I just I really just that's kind of
1122
00:54:25.239 --> 00:54:27.519
a thing of where uh, you know, while that was
1123
00:54:27.559 --> 00:54:29.119
definitely that type of thing is more common in the
1124
00:54:29.159 --> 00:54:31.039
nineties as far as trying to address you know, when
1125
00:54:31.079 --> 00:54:33.960
you how you're painting good guys and bad guys. It's
1126
00:54:34.039 --> 00:54:36.320
just the thing that like, I've just always found that
1127
00:54:36.360 --> 00:54:38.840
bothers me about, like, well, once you get an educated
1128
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:41.119
black dude and here, well he's a problem, he's he's
1129
00:54:41.119 --> 00:54:43.480
the bad guy. And that just bothered me.
1130
00:54:43.639 --> 00:54:45.280
I mean, now that we're talking about it, I totally
1131
00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:50.480
I totally get it. When I was rewatching this, I
1132
00:54:50.559 --> 00:54:52.960
just felt like it was like a forced wedge of
1133
00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:56.280
the story, like you have to like Darnell, Like you
1134
00:54:56.559 --> 00:54:59.119
have to like him, and this is the way we're
1135
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:01.239
going to get you to like Kim. Never mind that
1136
00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:03.519
this guy is pre med, because they don't they spit
1137
00:55:03.599 --> 00:55:06.920
that out later on, you know, And it's like just
1138
00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:10.719
the way that that Darnell's story is and the way
1139
00:55:10.760 --> 00:55:14.360
that they're trying to grab into the audience of like, well,
1140
00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:17.840
make this a love triangle and force this guy as
1141
00:55:17.880 --> 00:55:20.559
like the bad guy, because we want Darnell to win
1142
00:55:21.719 --> 00:55:23.679
on the football field and we want him to be
1143
00:55:23.719 --> 00:55:27.280
successful with autumn as well as you know, hey, let's
1144
00:55:27.320 --> 00:55:30.079
raise that that d that you got on that placement
1145
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:32.639
test or the math test, and let's you know, we
1146
00:55:32.679 --> 00:55:35.719
want him to succeed. So it's like, to me, it
1147
00:55:35.800 --> 00:55:40.079
was like just all a forced wedge of you got
1148
00:55:40.079 --> 00:55:42.480
to have some kind of a speed bump in the storyline.
1149
00:55:42.599 --> 00:55:45.599
You can't just give all the success to the kid
1150
00:55:45.679 --> 00:55:47.320
on the wrong side of the tracks, so you had
1151
00:55:47.320 --> 00:55:51.400
to have this this speed bump. And the speed bump
1152
00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:56.880
they chose was this. But I mean, from from what
1153
00:55:56.920 --> 00:55:59.840
you're saying, yeah, I mean I completely agree they it.
1154
00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:02.000
I think it would have been interesting to have it
1155
00:56:02.079 --> 00:56:05.039
like maybe flip flopped. Like the storyline flip flop. Here's
1156
00:56:05.039 --> 00:56:08.119
this guy that aspires to want to go to prevent
1157
00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:11.440
pre med and he's the full back of the future
1158
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:15.000
and the kid that's in its way.
1159
00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:19.079
It's it's tailback, as they said, tailback. Great, great, Yeah,
1160
00:56:19.079 --> 00:56:20.679
it's Donald Jefferson.
1161
00:56:20.320 --> 00:56:21.480
Tail bad tailback.
1162
00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:23.679
Greg Griffin started tail back, you know.
1163
00:56:25.679 --> 00:56:27.440
The man. They flip flopped in a little bit different.
1164
00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:29.920
Here I go, I'm rewriting it, but no, no, no,
1165
00:56:29.960 --> 00:56:31.639
I'm just saying, like, to me, it just felt more
1166
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:34.039
like a wedge, Like it was just like a very
1167
00:56:34.079 --> 00:56:36.400
forced wedge. We didn't even get a chance to really
1168
00:56:36.519 --> 00:56:39.639
get to know Griffin much at all, like or even
1169
00:56:39.639 --> 00:56:42.360
see his abilities. We only got to see a couple
1170
00:56:42.400 --> 00:56:45.840
of his plays and then everything else was like Darnell's plays.
1171
00:56:46.119 --> 00:56:49.320
Yeah, which I'm fine with. I think I'm fine with it.
1172
00:56:49.360 --> 00:56:50.639
If that was all it was. I just did not
1173
00:56:50.840 --> 00:56:53.320
like that. They you know, basically, they said, let's write
1174
00:56:53.360 --> 00:56:55.760
down everything that your mom would be like, if you're
1175
00:56:55.960 --> 00:56:57.480
if you're the if you're the mother of a daughter,
1176
00:56:57.519 --> 00:57:00.719
let's write down everything that you would want the man,
1177
00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:02.719
the man that your daughter brings off from college to be.
1178
00:57:03.079 --> 00:57:08.360
He's that, and we're gonna make him the good looking
1179
00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:11.000
guy you know, uh, you know, the good looking guys
1180
00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:13.960
eloquently has a future, right no matter what. If if
1181
00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:15.880
the football thing works out, there's a future there. And
1182
00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:18.199
if it doesn't work out, he's pre med doing great,
1183
00:57:18.280 --> 00:57:20.599
so he's fine. You know, he's everything you're gonna say
1184
00:57:20.599 --> 00:57:22.639
you want. But then to then paint him as that
1185
00:57:22.679 --> 00:57:25.400
way where you know t and the thing then also
1186
00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:28.639
becomes where it's like okay, so as a you know,
1187
00:57:28.679 --> 00:57:30.440
there is there's an aspect of it where you know,
1188
00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:32.639
there's always of course, with personalities and stuff like that.
1189
00:57:32.679 --> 00:57:34.199
When it comes to love and caring and feelings and
1190
00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:36.119
all that. But at the same time, you're also saying, well,
1191
00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:38.880
like they could have made Ray Griffin more similar to Darnell.
1192
00:57:39.079 --> 00:57:40.840
Now he doesn't have the same background, but he could
1193
00:57:40.840 --> 00:57:42.719
have more a similar guy or maybe even just the
1194
00:57:42.719 --> 00:57:45.800
worst person, because really they just bring up the one thing.
1195
00:57:45.920 --> 00:57:47.800
So the one thing was that he cheated on the girl.
1196
00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:50.159
He cheating on with the girl, and it's like, Okay,
1197
00:57:50.239 --> 00:57:54.679
that's bad, but you and and Autumn is a smart,
1198
00:57:54.679 --> 00:57:58.000
bright girl, so you feel that she should be able
1199
00:57:58.039 --> 00:58:00.000
to incapable and they always have the agency to make
1200
00:58:00.039 --> 00:58:02.760
that decision when that stuff that happens in your relationship.
1201
00:58:02.840 --> 00:58:05.280
You can stay or you can go. But he's a decision.
1202
00:58:05.360 --> 00:58:07.400
She's not being forced, she's not being made to do
1203
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:09.320
anything right there, so she's able to make a choice.
1204
00:58:09.320 --> 00:58:11.840
But then after that, everything else Ray does is really
1205
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:13.679
kind of reasonable. He's kind of like, look, why are
1206
00:58:13.679 --> 00:58:15.119
you spending so much time with this guy? Like what
1207
00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:17.599
is that about? Like you know, why are you, why
1208
00:58:17.599 --> 00:58:18.960
are you? Why are you doing that instead of you know,
1209
00:58:19.079 --> 00:58:20.719
you be with me, like you know, like you know,
1210
00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:23.519
like really, when you really start looking at from race perspective,
1211
00:58:23.559 --> 00:58:26.119
it's like, well, Ray's not crazy here. You know, She's
1212
00:58:26.159 --> 00:58:28.280
spending way too much time with this dude. Like, yeah,
1213
00:58:28.360 --> 00:58:31.039
you tutor him and that's fine, but like you guys
1214
00:58:31.119 --> 00:58:33.599
going to roller skates and roller rings and no ice skating,
1215
00:58:33.760 --> 00:58:35.760
ice dating, ice skate rings and all that stuff, you know,
1216
00:58:35.760 --> 00:58:37.599
and and all that, and it's like, well, hang on
1217
00:58:37.679 --> 00:58:40.000
a second, like you so you're basically dating some dude here,
1218
00:58:40.400 --> 00:58:43.760
and so you know, while what he did was definitely bad,
1219
00:58:44.119 --> 00:58:45.519
and they say time, if you're going to then be
1220
00:58:45.559 --> 00:58:47.039
back with him, then you should be back from trying
1221
00:58:47.039 --> 00:58:49.000
to make the relationship work or you you know, move
1222
00:58:49.039 --> 00:58:51.119
on and that and that and both. I think both
1223
00:58:51.159 --> 00:58:53.840
decisions can potentially be fine. But it just felt that
1224
00:58:53.920 --> 00:58:57.079
like turning him into where we're supposed to root in
1225
00:58:57.119 --> 00:59:00.239
a sense against Ray was really really that's just trying
1226
00:59:00.280 --> 00:59:02.480
to just rub me the wrong way, right.
1227
00:59:02.599 --> 00:59:05.199
No, I get that. I didn't and I didn't find
1228
00:59:05.199 --> 00:59:07.639
myself rooting against Ray or anything like that, but I
1229
00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:11.199
mean it's like it's definitely there in the story, like, ok,
1230
00:59:11.440 --> 00:59:12.760
you need to root against him.
1231
00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:15.280
Like you know, I mean, you know what, maybe that's
1232
00:59:15.360 --> 00:59:17.119
just me just hanging on to it because I I
1233
00:59:17.599 --> 00:59:19.239
you know, I looked at Ray, like, Nora is a
1234
00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:21.480
great guy. Let's let's let Ray be good. But then
1235
00:59:21.960 --> 00:59:23.960
I guess I see your point. You there is an
1236
00:59:24.000 --> 00:59:26.639
aspect of where it's just you are rooting for Darnell.
1237
00:59:26.719 --> 00:59:29.079
You don't really stop thinking too much about Ray. He's
1238
00:59:29.239 --> 00:59:32.639
just a placeholder in that story. And I could see that.
1239
00:59:32.719 --> 00:59:36.360
But I just they they gave gave me too much
1240
00:59:36.400 --> 00:59:39.440
information about Ray that made me think that this guy
1241
00:59:39.480 --> 00:59:41.480
should not be the bad guy. This guy should just
1242
00:59:41.480 --> 00:59:43.639
be the you know, you don't want data, We don't
1243
00:59:43.639 --> 00:59:44.039
want data.
1244
00:59:44.159 --> 00:59:47.679
That's fine, right, right, no, and it no, it's and
1245
00:59:47.800 --> 00:59:50.000
you're right, though they do they hang him out to
1246
00:59:50.119 --> 00:59:52.440
dry as the bad guy, and it's just they make
1247
00:59:52.519 --> 00:59:55.599
him out to be and here he is that. I
1248
00:59:55.599 --> 00:59:59.000
think the only thing that I had a problem with
1249
00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:02.880
with Ray was when they were dancing. When Darnell and
1250
01:00:03.119 --> 01:00:06.679
Autumn were dancing, Ray's reaction you.
1251
01:00:06.639 --> 01:00:09.199
Know, oh oh yeah, well not only that, but like
1252
01:00:09.320 --> 01:00:12.000
wait what but look that scene was messed up for
1253
01:00:12.039 --> 01:00:14.840
multiple reasons, like you don't tell me I'm with my girl, right,
1254
01:00:14.880 --> 01:00:17.599
and you're gonna try to cut in on the slow song, right,
1255
01:00:18.159 --> 01:00:22.159
like yeah, it's like no, you know, right, Ray's got
1256
01:00:22.159 --> 01:00:24.760
a point, right, He's kind of like away on a second,
1257
01:00:24.760 --> 01:00:26.880
Like if it was a fast song, you know, and
1258
01:00:26.880 --> 01:00:29.480
they're be dancing from you know, separated from each other
1259
01:00:29.559 --> 01:00:31.719
or whatever, and you want to be like the understanding
1260
01:00:31.760 --> 01:00:33.760
boyfriend with that. Okay, I get that, But like if
1261
01:00:33.760 --> 01:00:35.880
it's a slow song and somebody's like, hey, man, if
1262
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:41.400
I cut in, I'm like what, uh no, exactly, yeah, yeah,
1263
01:00:41.440 --> 01:00:43.000
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna let you rub up
1264
01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:45.000
on my girl like that. You know. I was like,
1265
01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:46.880
you know, you wanted to look at him like who
1266
01:00:46.880 --> 01:00:49.440
do you think I am? You know, and so yeah,
1267
01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:51.679
so I think that in that and again, that to
1268
01:00:51.719 --> 01:00:54.119
me also was really the start of when I started
1269
01:00:54.400 --> 01:00:57.480
on I will admit this was on rewatch where when
1270
01:00:57.480 --> 01:01:00.000
I'm watching it again, that scene there was the first
1271
01:01:00.000 --> 01:01:02.320
first time when I started stopping thinking about it, going like, well,
1272
01:01:02.360 --> 01:01:04.800
let me think about this from race perspective, and really
1273
01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:07.760
from race perspective, it's like, no, most everything he does
1274
01:01:08.039 --> 01:01:10.639
is reasonable. He look, he shouldn't. He shouldn't have missed
1275
01:01:10.639 --> 01:01:12.400
that block on purpose. But I think that was a
1276
01:01:12.639 --> 01:01:14.400
silly trope that they put in the movie to make
1277
01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:16.559
it where you're rooting against Ray. But outside of that,
1278
01:01:16.639 --> 01:01:18.840
I was like, look everything Ray dead. I was like, no,
1279
01:01:19.039 --> 01:01:20.239
he's got a point.
1280
01:01:21.000 --> 01:01:25.000
I don't think I ever purposely missed the block, and
1281
01:01:25.039 --> 01:01:28.000
I played I played tackle. I don't think I ever
1282
01:01:28.079 --> 01:01:31.599
purposely missed the block because I was unhappy with the
1283
01:01:31.719 --> 01:01:35.519
running back behind me, or our quarterback or any kind
1284
01:01:35.559 --> 01:01:38.320
of you know, trickery play that we were doing, like
1285
01:01:38.360 --> 01:01:40.159
if it was like a screen or something and I
1286
01:01:40.239 --> 01:01:42.719
was to pull out. I don't think I ever like,
1287
01:01:43.159 --> 01:01:44.880
oh I can't wait till he gets the ball, we're
1288
01:01:44.880 --> 01:01:47.400
gonna miss it. Maybe in practice against somebody, but like
1289
01:01:47.920 --> 01:01:48.559
not a game.
1290
01:01:48.800 --> 01:01:51.800
No, I had teammates. I didn't like it. I had
1291
01:01:51.880 --> 01:01:53.880
never I mean, just have a personal products a football player,
1292
01:01:53.880 --> 01:01:56.320
I'd never would have done that, right No, no.
1293
01:01:56.079 --> 01:01:58.920
No, no, no, no no no no, especially and especially at
1294
01:01:58.920 --> 01:01:59.480
that level too.
1295
01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:01.800
Yeah, yeah, now you're not gonna do that. No.
1296
01:02:02.039 --> 01:02:04.199
So I mean if you're playing against you're playing against
1297
01:02:04.239 --> 01:02:06.159
Michigan or Georgia Tech. I mean they were It's not
1298
01:02:06.199 --> 01:02:09.000
like they were like playing against like little tiny colleges
1299
01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:10.960
in this in this movie, right, I mean.
1300
01:02:10.920 --> 01:02:14.079
They pulled out big time names. Yeah, throughout the whole movie.
1301
01:02:14.280 --> 01:02:16.360
They did they made it and they had the independent schedule,
1302
01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:17.840
they weren't in the league. It made it sound like
1303
01:02:17.840 --> 01:02:19.320
they were trying to say they were Notre Dame, but
1304
01:02:19.360 --> 01:02:21.119
it wasn't. You know, they want to they want a
1305
01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:23.519
Catholic school, but you know, it was like Notre Dame
1306
01:02:23.559 --> 01:02:25.280
as far as who they were playing was mostly kin
1307
01:02:25.360 --> 01:02:27.199
to Notre Dame, where they were just playing different school.
1308
01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:29.760
But then also too from the movie making standpoint, which
1309
01:02:29.760 --> 01:02:31.440
is which school is? Can you get the rights to that?
1310
01:02:31.480 --> 01:02:33.199
They will allow you to use them in the movie,
1311
01:02:33.199 --> 01:02:36.559
and so that works. But okay, so then since we
1312
01:02:36.719 --> 01:02:39.159
really kind of dug into all the different different things
1313
01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:41.920
and the overarching theme, uh, the overarching theme about the
1314
01:02:42.199 --> 01:02:46.079
about the movie itself is I guess that. Yeah, So
1315
01:02:46.159 --> 01:02:48.360
to speak about the movies from a more over arching standpoint,
1316
01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:52.800
you know, how would you recommend someone else watch this movie? Now?
1317
01:02:53.239 --> 01:02:56.000
I think you got to have some kind of likeness
1318
01:02:56.039 --> 01:02:58.840
of football to be able to recommend it. So, like,
1319
01:02:59.800 --> 01:03:02.039
if I'm recommending it, I'm just gonna be like, have
1320
01:03:02.119 --> 01:03:05.800
you are you interested in a movie that does have
1321
01:03:05.880 --> 01:03:09.559
many different storylines that you know, you get you get
1322
01:03:09.559 --> 01:03:12.440
to know some of these characters through their different little
1323
01:03:12.440 --> 01:03:16.280
storylines that kind of intersect into a major story of
1324
01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:22.880
football being an accessory to to the end goal, you know,
1325
01:03:23.280 --> 01:03:25.880
to be able to get this team into you know,
1326
01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:28.320
a playoff birth of bowl game. You know, I if
1327
01:03:28.360 --> 01:03:30.639
you like football action, this is a good movie. I
1328
01:03:30.719 --> 01:03:32.239
you know, I think I think there's there could be
1329
01:03:32.239 --> 01:03:35.119
a couple of different little selling points if you're gonna
1330
01:03:35.320 --> 01:03:37.840
recommend it to somebody, But to me, it would I
1331
01:03:37.880 --> 01:03:40.639
would recommended only to somebody if they're talking about football
1332
01:03:40.679 --> 01:03:42.880
and be like, oh have you seen the program? Man?
1333
01:03:42.960 --> 01:03:45.960
The way that this this movie hits, the way that
1334
01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:48.800
it puts you in the action, or like the training scene,
1335
01:03:49.360 --> 01:03:52.840
you know, like before their first game of like oh man,
1336
01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:54.639
did you play football? And you were talking about the
1337
01:03:54.639 --> 01:03:57.119
bull ring? Like oh yeah, man, this this puts you
1338
01:03:57.199 --> 01:03:59.480
in the bull ring. Like I love that stuff. Like
1339
01:03:59.559 --> 01:04:02.599
I could I could maybe talk to somebody like that
1340
01:04:02.719 --> 01:04:04.920
and then tell them like about the program and most
1341
01:04:04.960 --> 01:04:07.079
likely they've watched it. But I would recommend it to
1342
01:04:07.119 --> 01:04:09.119
somebody that was speaking in terms of football.
1343
01:04:09.239 --> 01:04:11.400
Okay, yeah, you can't do bull in the ring anymore.
1344
01:04:11.880 --> 01:04:13.519
So that was that was one thing when I was
1345
01:04:13.519 --> 01:04:15.039
watching with my family, they were like can you still
1346
01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:17.679
do that? And I was like, no, yeah, I was
1347
01:04:17.719 --> 01:04:18.239
going to ask you.
1348
01:04:18.320 --> 01:04:19.800
I was like, well do you know, because you know
1349
01:04:19.960 --> 01:04:20.800
my kid doesn't.
1350
01:04:20.559 --> 01:04:23.199
Play football, not you anymore.
1351
01:04:23.239 --> 01:04:25.280
Man. That was like, that was one of my funest
1352
01:04:25.280 --> 01:04:27.760
true I just I always hated it because you could
1353
01:04:27.800 --> 01:04:32.440
always tell the one player that coach wanted to quit, like,
1354
01:04:33.079 --> 01:04:36.360
I'm so tired of this ruty esque type of person.
1355
01:04:36.480 --> 01:04:38.400
Yeah he's in there for he's in there a little
1356
01:04:38.480 --> 01:04:38.920
too long.
1357
01:04:39.320 --> 01:04:41.719
Yeah, let's put him into the bull ring. And and
1358
01:04:41.760 --> 01:04:44.679
nobody else is going to get three numbers called on
1359
01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:48.280
them while you're facing one guy straight on and he's
1360
01:04:48.360 --> 01:04:51.440
like the biggest, baddest, And then the two guys that
1361
01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:53.400
get called that are allowed to just go ahead and
1362
01:04:53.519 --> 01:04:55.440
hit the back of your number for whatever reason in
1363
01:04:55.480 --> 01:04:58.159
this trill, which was totally fine in the nineties. You know,
1364
01:04:58.280 --> 01:05:05.159
they call the next biggest, baddest motherfuckers and coming at you.
1365
01:05:05.199 --> 01:05:08.039
And now now you got Rudy who's getting bent over
1366
01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:09.119
multiple ways.
1367
01:05:09.400 --> 01:05:12.639
Wow, you really think Rudy wasn't Really Rudy shouldn't have
1368
01:05:12.679 --> 01:05:13.320
made the squad.
1369
01:05:14.880 --> 01:05:17.679
I mean, every team has a Rudy, man, Like, every
1370
01:05:17.719 --> 01:05:21.039
team has a Rudy and and that the bull ring
1371
01:05:21.320 --> 01:05:23.559
that that's where that's where coaches liquor lives.
1372
01:05:23.639 --> 01:05:26.079
Yes, not was sadly part of the boulder ring. Uh
1373
01:05:26.480 --> 01:05:28.079
drill was to be able to have it where you
1374
01:05:28.079 --> 01:05:30.440
could spin around and take you know, and pay attention
1375
01:05:30.440 --> 01:05:32.880
to things, you know, spin around and react fast and everything,
1376
01:05:32.960 --> 01:05:34.960
even someone's coming from you behind, which I was like, yeah,
1377
01:05:34.960 --> 01:05:38.199
that doesn't happen a lot in football, So it didn't
1378
01:05:38.199 --> 01:05:40.239
make sense mean that the drill exist. But you know, hey,
1379
01:05:40.320 --> 01:05:43.320
I participated in several of those boulder rings and no,
1380
01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:45.760
you absolutely cannot do that now. That's only and all
1381
01:05:45.760 --> 01:05:47.840
of the drills they did, realistically, that's the only one.
1382
01:05:47.880 --> 01:05:50.000
You still can't do. The other ones, even though they
1383
01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:51.840
were they were calmed. The two on ones and those
1384
01:05:51.880 --> 01:05:55.159
hitting drills they were doing the side side started from Yeah,
1385
01:05:55.159 --> 01:05:57.440
they're only starting from a few years a few yards apart,
1386
01:05:57.480 --> 01:05:59.480
and all you can see all that.
1387
01:05:59.480 --> 01:06:03.280
That's what that's what I was hoping, like, you know,
1388
01:06:03.519 --> 01:06:05.480
the two v two that that was always fun.
1389
01:06:05.599 --> 01:06:07.440
Yeah, you can still do all of those, but that
1390
01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:09.719
that bowler ring, man, you're not doing that now. A
1391
01:06:09.719 --> 01:06:11.360
lot of teams don't do it anymore. And that's a
1392
01:06:11.360 --> 01:06:13.440
whole lot of reasons for that, but they but you
1393
01:06:13.599 --> 01:06:16.360
can do those type of drills. I think that, uh,
1394
01:06:16.639 --> 01:06:18.519
you know, getting back around to that, I think that
1395
01:06:20.119 --> 01:06:24.519
I agree with the conceptually and intellectually, I do agree
1396
01:06:24.559 --> 01:06:26.559
with the idea that you need to really like football
1397
01:06:26.599 --> 01:06:29.039
to appreciate this movie. And I think that there is
1398
01:06:30.000 --> 01:06:32.559
but I but I find I this after I really,
1399
01:06:32.599 --> 01:06:34.840
after this conversation, I find I'm disagreeing with myself on
1400
01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:39.119
that and reason yes, And the reason for that is that, yes,
1401
01:06:39.719 --> 01:06:42.119
I think you need to have some understanding of or
1402
01:06:42.239 --> 01:06:46.239
acceptance of football is a big deal. And as long
1403
01:06:46.280 --> 01:06:49.400
as you're willing to accept that premise that football is
1404
01:06:49.440 --> 01:06:52.000
a big deal, then the rest of this movie, maybe
1405
01:06:52.000 --> 01:06:54.119
you do, maybe you don't, because I mean, we've really
1406
01:06:54.119 --> 01:06:56.280
been talking about this movie now for about forty five minutes,
1407
01:06:56.320 --> 01:06:59.760
and we discuss football here and there. But these storylines
1408
01:06:59.800 --> 01:07:02.159
and what these people are going through while it is
1409
01:07:02.199 --> 01:07:05.679
in the prism of football contextually, that's it can be
1410
01:07:05.719 --> 01:07:08.400
anything they're doing this through, you know, And so as
1411
01:07:08.440 --> 01:07:11.159
long as you accept the initial premise football is a
1412
01:07:11.159 --> 01:07:13.719
big deal, then you know you have a story about
1413
01:07:14.360 --> 01:07:17.320
you know about the you know, making the you know,
1414
01:07:17.320 --> 01:07:18.960
putting all your eggs in one basket. You have a
1415
01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:20.440
sorry about that. You have a story about, you know,
1416
01:07:20.440 --> 01:07:22.360
trying to do what you can do to succeed at
1417
01:07:22.360 --> 01:07:23.960
a certain level even though you don't have the talent.
1418
01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:28.480
You have the I have the imposter syndrome. Therefore, I have,
1419
01:07:28.519 --> 01:07:30.559
you know, substance abuse problems because I don't believe that
1420
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:32.239
I'm as good as I should be, and they have
1421
01:07:32.320 --> 01:07:35.559
that I'm really just trying hard to be a better
1422
01:07:35.960 --> 01:07:39.320
overall arching person. You know, those are the main force
1423
01:07:39.400 --> 01:07:41.480
stories we just discussed, and that's and you can bowl
1424
01:07:41.519 --> 01:07:45.760
them down to that, and those themes can apply to anything. Now,
1425
01:07:46.039 --> 01:07:48.400
this movie definitely has to be about football. You could
1426
01:07:48.400 --> 01:07:50.480
not take football out of this movie and have it work.
1427
01:07:50.960 --> 01:07:53.079
But I think that as far as watching it and
1428
01:07:53.239 --> 01:07:57.320
enjoying it, you don't necessarily have to enjoy the football
1429
01:07:57.320 --> 01:08:00.880
sequences to really enjoy this movie. You know, I guess
1430
01:08:01.119 --> 01:08:04.280
I went into this conversation you completely thinking the same
1431
01:08:04.320 --> 01:08:06.079
way you did. But then when I started thinking about
1432
01:08:06.079 --> 01:08:07.880
what we're talking about, it's like, no, we were able
1433
01:08:07.920 --> 01:08:10.760
to You can talk about and enjoy this movie, and
1434
01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:14.440
if you don't like football, it can still work, you know,
1435
01:08:14.480 --> 01:08:16.720
it can still work, I think so. I guess I
1436
01:08:16.720 --> 01:08:18.640
think that, but but I do agree that if I
1437
01:08:18.640 --> 01:08:20.680
was the recommended as someone, I would start with, well,
1438
01:08:20.720 --> 01:08:23.000
do you like football? Because if you don't like football,
1439
01:08:23.520 --> 01:08:29.279
you might not really enjoy this movie. But and if
1440
01:08:29.319 --> 01:08:32.399
you like this, you know the conversations we're having. Now listen,
1441
01:08:32.520 --> 01:08:36.119
you know, for our members you'll get to hear a
1442
01:08:36.159 --> 01:08:43.079
bonus section where we discussed the final game. So, Jim,
1443
01:08:43.119 --> 01:08:45.960
let's let's peel back a bit because we've been talking
1444
01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:48.159
about this in terms of the micro. But what do
1445
01:08:48.199 --> 01:08:50.079
you think about this in terms of the macro? Do
1446
01:08:50.159 --> 01:08:54.760
you think that when you see this that do you
1447
01:08:54.840 --> 01:08:58.119
think that college football is still like this? Or how
1448
01:08:58.159 --> 01:08:59.960
close do you do you get is in terms of
1449
01:09:00.520 --> 01:09:02.920
really in terms of and a less an easier way
1450
01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:07.119
to phrase the question, does this movie hold up in
1451
01:09:07.159 --> 01:09:11.039
that it feels like it's still talking about college football
1452
01:09:11.359 --> 01:09:13.479
with the way it is now, or it feels like
1453
01:09:13.520 --> 01:09:16.119
it's talking about something that is antiquated and how college
1454
01:09:16.119 --> 01:09:17.439
football was a long time ago.
1455
01:09:18.239 --> 01:09:22.119
Now I think this is still there. I think this
1456
01:09:22.279 --> 01:09:29.439
movie has aged. Okay, you know, from the story aspect
1457
01:09:29.560 --> 01:09:32.399
of the program, like how the program takes care of
1458
01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:35.399
its own when you get at trouble, how they try
1459
01:09:35.399 --> 01:09:38.880
to cover up things. I think a lot of that
1460
01:09:39.239 --> 01:09:42.079
is there. And now with the name likeness contracts and
1461
01:09:42.119 --> 01:09:45.079
the portal and all that stuff, I think that there's
1462
01:09:45.399 --> 01:09:48.399
a whole nother story for us to yet to learn
1463
01:09:48.439 --> 01:09:51.199
now and that is going to eventually come out in
1464
01:09:51.199 --> 01:09:54.920
the future about how even to me in my mind,
1465
01:09:55.239 --> 01:10:00.000
how grotesque NCAA football really is because of the correctness
1466
01:10:00.159 --> 01:10:05.359
the money that is associated with these players and what
1467
01:10:06.199 --> 01:10:10.560
a program might be willing to do to make sure
1468
01:10:10.640 --> 01:10:13.479
that they have the best quality product on the field
1469
01:10:13.560 --> 01:10:16.079
each and every Saturday. What about you? What do you think?
1470
01:10:16.600 --> 01:10:18.000
How do you think this movie is held up?
1471
01:10:18.319 --> 01:10:20.640
Yeah? From them that exapt when it works, I mean, like, yes,
1472
01:10:20.760 --> 01:10:23.600
I think that they are. All these ideas are still here.
1473
01:10:23.720 --> 01:10:25.520
I think that there is a little bit better. As
1474
01:10:25.600 --> 01:10:28.640
far as the Latimer story, I think happens a little
1475
01:10:28.640 --> 01:10:32.199
bit less frequently, mostly more because it's harder to get
1476
01:10:32.600 --> 01:10:35.600
away with it now than it was then, and I
1477
01:10:35.600 --> 01:10:37.760
think that's really what's curving that back. And then also
1478
01:10:38.520 --> 01:10:40.119
of the Max story, I think happens a little bit
1479
01:10:40.159 --> 01:10:42.319
less as well, again because it's a little bit harder
1480
01:10:42.359 --> 01:10:44.239
to get away with what they were doing. So I
1481
01:10:44.279 --> 01:10:48.720
think that that was from that small perspective. Things are
1482
01:10:48.720 --> 01:10:53.520
different because just because it's harder to it, because they're
1483
01:10:53.600 --> 01:10:56.319
more likely to get caught doing these things now than
1484
01:10:56.359 --> 01:10:58.039
you were then, because there was more of a light
1485
01:10:58.119 --> 01:11:01.880
shone on. This happened to these kids because you know,
1486
01:11:01.960 --> 01:11:04.319
one thing that always gets lost in college football is that,
1487
01:11:04.399 --> 01:11:06.520
you know, while they are legally adults, you know, the
1488
01:11:06.560 --> 01:11:08.560
most of them are between eighteen to twenty two years old.
1489
01:11:08.600 --> 01:11:10.680
And you know, you talk to anyone over thirty, you
1490
01:11:10.680 --> 01:11:12.920
talk about someone that's eighteen to twenty two, and you'll say, oh,
1491
01:11:12.960 --> 01:11:15.640
you have these kids, right, They're still called college kids.
1492
01:11:15.760 --> 01:11:18.960
And it's like you are, you are using them to
1493
01:11:19.199 --> 01:11:22.800
generate a boatload of money, and you're not paying them,
1494
01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:25.720
although nil now makes it where you are, So there's
1495
01:11:25.800 --> 01:11:27.720
there is there is that where some kids can get
1496
01:11:27.720 --> 01:11:29.640
paid from it. But and that makes a.
1497
01:11:29.640 --> 01:11:31.880
College has still come out way more on top. Oh
1498
01:11:31.920 --> 01:11:33.359
of course they can get well, yeah, of.
1499
01:11:33.319 --> 01:11:35.399
Course they do, because the colleges aren't paying the nil.
1500
01:11:35.520 --> 01:11:40.000
The market is bearing the cost of nil. So yeah,
1501
01:11:40.159 --> 01:11:41.920
the college is definitely still making I mean, those TV
1502
01:11:42.000 --> 01:11:44.439
contracts are billions of dollars, right, and so you have
1503
01:11:45.119 --> 01:11:48.359
that where you're you know, so there is you know,
1504
01:11:48.680 --> 01:11:50.840
that's again I think what I would just state as
1505
01:11:50.840 --> 01:11:55.560
is that things are better. But that note, this movie
1506
01:11:55.640 --> 01:12:01.079
does China light on not only not only does it
1507
01:12:01.159 --> 01:12:03.239
all is it relevant to what is happening now. But
1508
01:12:03.319 --> 01:12:05.439
I think that one of the definite values of this
1509
01:12:05.520 --> 01:12:08.640
movie is, you know, nineteen ninety three is thirty one
1510
01:12:08.720 --> 01:12:11.800
years ago, and it can tell you and show you, hey,
1511
01:12:12.520 --> 01:12:15.119
this is how these things that we think of now
1512
01:12:15.840 --> 01:12:18.000
because some of these stories and everything this is now
1513
01:12:18.560 --> 01:12:20.600
you think of now, these problems and issues with college
1514
01:12:20.600 --> 01:12:24.319
football now have existed for at least this long, I
1515
01:12:24.359 --> 01:12:26.840
mean really longer, because you know, they you know, because
1516
01:12:26.960 --> 01:12:28.960
because it's not like this movie. When this movie is made,
1517
01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:31.279
everyone was like, oh my god, that that happens. Everybody,
1518
01:12:31.279 --> 01:12:32.960
you know, everybody knew this is what was going on,
1519
01:12:33.439 --> 01:12:36.039
and so that it really shines out on how long
1520
01:12:36.279 --> 01:12:40.119
this system has been set up this way.
1521
01:12:40.479 --> 01:12:44.079
And it's it's amazing though that a story about steroids
1522
01:12:44.640 --> 01:12:48.439
in the nineties is football when like the nineties was
1523
01:12:48.520 --> 01:12:51.000
just a huge steroid era. I mean, I know, steroids
1524
01:12:51.039 --> 01:12:53.520
is still around. I like, you know, you got everything
1525
01:12:53.520 --> 01:12:57.640
in baseball with Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa
1526
01:12:57.720 --> 01:12:59.680
in the nineties for their steroid use.
1527
01:13:00.479 --> 01:13:02.760
Yeah, but once you start talking about it, once you
1528
01:13:02.880 --> 01:13:05.960
leave baseball, sorry, once you leave football or Sarah Jude
1529
01:13:06.039 --> 01:13:09.000
Sarah Juice and baseball to me is a more complicated topic.
1530
01:13:09.880 --> 01:13:13.520
Steroidjuice and football to me is much more straightforward, you know,
1531
01:13:13.560 --> 01:13:16.239
because the with the steroid juice and the strength and
1532
01:13:16.239 --> 01:13:19.159
everything that he creates out of that, like Latimer's Latimer
1533
01:13:19.239 --> 01:13:21.800
is it's pretty It's pretty straightforward with Latimer right where
1534
01:13:21.840 --> 01:13:26.720
he he got stronger, he got faster, and that directly
1535
01:13:26.760 --> 01:13:29.600
translated to what he does in you know, how he
1536
01:13:29.640 --> 01:13:31.439
got on the field and what he did and all that,
1537
01:13:31.520 --> 01:13:35.319
whereas in baseball to me is there's there's some there's
1538
01:13:35.319 --> 01:13:38.239
some other nuances involved that I don't know that steroids
1539
01:13:38.319 --> 01:13:39.600
effects as directly.
1540
01:13:40.399 --> 01:13:42.960
Look up one player for me when you have the time,
1541
01:13:43.239 --> 01:13:44.720
by the name of Brady Anderson.
1542
01:13:46.319 --> 01:13:47.279
Was he a football player?
1543
01:13:47.760 --> 01:13:50.319
No, I mean maybe there was a Brady Anderson that was.
1544
01:13:50.359 --> 01:13:53.359
But he played for the Orioles and you'll see like
1545
01:13:54.479 --> 01:13:58.880
his his numbers are just like black, like not even beige.
1546
01:13:59.000 --> 01:14:02.079
I mean he was like may the average, he's the Vladimir.
1547
01:14:02.760 --> 01:14:05.439
He like went from one year of like you hit
1548
01:14:05.560 --> 01:14:08.399
like maybe nine ten eleven home runs, and then the
1549
01:14:08.399 --> 01:14:11.920
next year you hit like fifty six. Okay, it was
1550
01:14:11.960 --> 01:14:13.920
an all Star, wasn't you know? He all of a
1551
01:14:13.960 --> 01:14:17.039
sudden he had name recognition for a couple of years,
1552
01:14:17.119 --> 01:14:20.279
and then he started having all these horrible injuries. Oh
1553
01:14:20.319 --> 01:14:22.000
why why do you have all these horrible injuries?
1554
01:14:22.000 --> 01:14:24.600
Oh? Because you know, Yeah, I'm not saying that it's
1555
01:14:24.840 --> 01:14:27.199
you know, the I'm not saying that there's no effect,
1556
01:14:27.199 --> 01:14:28.520
that there's no difference or anything of that when you
1557
01:14:28.520 --> 01:14:30.199
start dealing with other sports. I just think that is
1558
01:14:30.600 --> 01:14:34.960
it is the direct line is easier to make yea
1559
01:14:35.239 --> 01:14:38.039
in the direct life, Yeah, because because it is much
1560
01:14:38.079 --> 01:14:42.800
more of a you know, there there is a especially
1561
01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:45.039
given that like right when you think about Latimer's story
1562
01:14:45.119 --> 01:14:46.960
or even when you create to other people, it's like, well,
1563
01:14:47.680 --> 01:14:50.479
they were a lot of times in the baseball stories
1564
01:14:50.479 --> 01:14:53.600
you hear, oh they weren't as they were on the team,
1565
01:14:53.680 --> 01:14:55.800
they were starting, they were playing, but they weren't as
1566
01:14:55.880 --> 01:14:57.880
good as all of a suddenhen they got the steroids.
1567
01:14:58.039 --> 01:15:01.439
Where in football it's like you were barely here. Like
1568
01:15:01.680 --> 01:15:03.680
you know, if you're just making the punt return team,
1569
01:15:03.720 --> 01:15:07.159
it's like you're on the field because we need numbers, right.
1570
01:15:07.079 --> 01:15:09.439
Yeah, we don't want the guys that we care about
1571
01:15:09.760 --> 01:15:11.520
on these mediocre plays.
1572
01:15:11.960 --> 01:15:14.239
Yeah you're on the team, but you're not a part
1573
01:15:14.279 --> 01:15:16.079
of the team. It's not the same thing as like,
1574
01:15:16.119 --> 01:15:17.640
you know, if you took a guy that like, oh
1575
01:15:17.680 --> 01:15:19.479
he was a starting like if Latimer had been the
1576
01:15:19.479 --> 01:15:22.399
starting defensive end for three years, but it wasn't anything special,
1577
01:15:22.560 --> 01:15:23.960
and then all of a sudden had a season where
1578
01:15:23.960 --> 01:15:25.479
he had like, you know, twenty six sacks and he
1579
01:15:25.520 --> 01:15:27.079
was doing everything like that, and I think, okay, then
1580
01:15:27.479 --> 01:15:29.439
that to me, that and that to me is more
1581
01:15:29.439 --> 01:15:32.640
of what baseball steroids feels like. It feels like I
1582
01:15:32.680 --> 01:15:34.720
have a guy that was the starting defensive end, he
1583
01:15:34.800 --> 01:15:37.199
was okay, and then he had this breakout amazing season
1584
01:15:37.279 --> 01:15:39.520
or running back that was like, yeah, he was running
1585
01:15:39.520 --> 01:15:41.159
for eight hundred yards the season, and all of a sudden,
1586
01:15:41.159 --> 01:15:43.960
he breaks out a season with two thousand, right like that,
1587
01:15:44.079 --> 01:15:47.399
Whereas where football seems to be much more of like, oh, yeah,
1588
01:15:47.439 --> 01:15:49.520
you mean that fifth string running back that only got
1589
01:15:49.560 --> 01:15:51.119
in every once in a while on special teams and
1590
01:15:51.159 --> 01:15:52.920
mop up duty. All of a sudden he's the starter
1591
01:15:53.000 --> 01:15:55.359
and he's balling, you know like that, That to me
1592
01:15:55.479 --> 01:15:58.640
is football sterelloids. To me, football makes it where you
1593
01:15:58.640 --> 01:16:01.319
you can go from nobody knows your name to your
1594
01:16:01.479 --> 01:16:02.560
starting primetime player.
1595
01:16:02.880 --> 01:16:05.039
I had some I had a silly question for you.
1596
01:16:05.319 --> 01:16:09.239
So you being you know, the referee that you are
1597
01:16:09.399 --> 01:16:12.239
and in many different games that you've been in the
1598
01:16:12.359 --> 01:16:16.199
opening scene first football game is like one of the
1599
01:16:16.199 --> 01:16:19.239
wettest football games I've ever seen in my entire life. Now,
1600
01:16:19.319 --> 01:16:24.319
I've practiced to some football in some horrible downpours, but
1601
01:16:24.439 --> 01:16:27.399
never have I ever played in a football game that
1602
01:16:27.479 --> 01:16:29.920
it looked like they were just like playing in a
1603
01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:32.840
pool rather than playing on a on you know, some
1604
01:16:32.960 --> 01:16:35.239
football stored ground, because.
1605
01:16:35.239 --> 01:16:37.479
It fields are much more better maintained. Now that's not
1606
01:16:37.520 --> 01:16:39.079
as it's not as happy. It's not as likely to
1607
01:16:39.079 --> 01:16:40.720
happen anymore that used to happen.
1608
01:16:40.920 --> 01:16:45.680
Okay, all right, So then another thing, Christy Swanson, she
1609
01:16:45.880 --> 01:16:48.640
was playing tennis like a pro in jeans, Like.
1610
01:16:50.800 --> 01:16:54.000
I seriously, well, did you have to look like a
1611
01:16:54.039 --> 01:16:57.680
pro when you're playing against a guy that like they
1612
01:16:57.680 --> 01:16:59.960
don't if they haven't established if he's ever played ten
1613
01:17:00.159 --> 01:17:01.279
before in his life.
1614
01:17:01.640 --> 01:17:03.760
No, And I think later on he said something about
1615
01:17:03.760 --> 01:17:06.439
it to her, like, you know, how you know you
1616
01:17:06.520 --> 01:17:08.760
got to play a sport that I've never even tried.
1617
01:17:09.680 --> 01:17:11.199
How come you know? It was like when he was
1618
01:17:11.199 --> 01:17:12.399
trying to get her again.
1619
01:17:12.279 --> 01:17:14.159
Right, I took my beating. Now you have to play
1620
01:17:14.159 --> 01:17:15.399
his birth that I'm good at.
1621
01:17:15.479 --> 01:17:18.159
Yeah, right, right. But I just found it so funny
1622
01:17:18.199 --> 01:17:22.119
in that here she is, she challenged him. She's in
1623
01:17:22.159 --> 01:17:27.199
the gym, he just got done playing football, and now
1624
01:17:27.880 --> 01:17:31.039
she doesn't change, but he went back and changed because
1625
01:17:31.079 --> 01:17:33.279
like he was, he was like in jeans and a
1626
01:17:33.279 --> 01:17:35.399
different shirt with the boys as they were walking through
1627
01:17:35.399 --> 01:17:39.520
the gym, and then she was in the in the
1628
01:17:39.560 --> 01:17:43.760
red shirt and the the jean shorts, and then they're
1629
01:17:43.800 --> 01:17:47.359
playing tennis and she's just so anyways, I was just like, damn,
1630
01:17:47.640 --> 01:17:49.479
you're playing tennis like a bro jean shorts.
1631
01:17:49.520 --> 01:17:52.039
That's pretty Yeah, that would be an aspect of the
1632
01:17:52.039 --> 01:17:55.279
movie we have to just kind of forgive. So yeah, yeah.
1633
01:17:54.840 --> 01:17:58.640
Yeah, all right. And then just I don't know, just
1634
01:17:58.680 --> 01:18:04.279
the line like true after the whole bike ride scene
1635
01:18:04.520 --> 01:18:06.600
and she's all pissed off, they get off the bike,
1636
01:18:07.239 --> 01:18:08.880
and you know, she's like, you know, why did you
1637
01:18:08.880 --> 01:18:10.399
do that? And he's like, oh, I've done this all
1638
01:18:10.439 --> 01:18:13.039
the time, all by myself, but you know, that was
1639
01:18:13.079 --> 01:18:14.720
the first time I've had anybody on the back of
1640
01:18:14.760 --> 01:18:17.600
the bike. And she just like stops and just kind
1641
01:18:17.600 --> 01:18:20.239
of looks at him, and she's like, you scare me, Joe.
1642
01:18:20.800 --> 01:18:21.439
This is like.
1643
01:18:22.960 --> 01:18:25.960
I no, no, you know. After and then she doesn't
1644
01:18:26.159 --> 01:18:29.000
you know, and then he's I think his response was
1645
01:18:29.640 --> 01:18:31.880
you know you got you got all the dogs who
1646
01:18:31.960 --> 01:18:34.920
want to mate with you.
1647
01:18:34.039 --> 01:18:36.000
Because because of the screen, yeah.
1648
01:18:38.199 --> 01:18:40.920
This is horrible. This didn't this didn't age too well.
1649
01:18:42.600 --> 01:18:44.039
So I don't know, I just wanted to I just
1650
01:18:44.039 --> 01:18:45.920
wanted to point out some of those things that made
1651
01:18:45.920 --> 01:18:48.039
me laugh as I was watching the movie.
1652
01:18:49.039 --> 01:18:51.399
Yeah, yeah, I wanted you that what made me laugh
1653
01:18:51.399 --> 01:18:54.760
the most was all of Darnell's using incorrect languages stuff
1654
01:18:54.760 --> 01:18:56.760
with that. But the yeah, I think that I think
1655
01:18:56.800 --> 01:19:00.199
that really with that. It is the the structure of
1656
01:19:00.359 --> 01:19:04.159
how they put the relationship of Camille and Joe together
1657
01:19:04.479 --> 01:19:07.840
is it feels a little hacky. It doesn't quite work,
1658
01:19:07.840 --> 01:19:10.039
and it feels like they were putting a relation. It's
1659
01:19:10.079 --> 01:19:12.119
like it felt like people that were writing a movie
1660
01:19:12.159 --> 01:19:18.039
about the business of college football were then forced to
1661
01:19:18.079 --> 01:19:20.520
put in a relationship and didn't know how to do
1662
01:19:20.600 --> 01:19:21.399
it right.
1663
01:19:21.479 --> 01:19:23.199
Yeah, because they're like, hey, you know, we've got our
1664
01:19:23.239 --> 01:19:25.800
star quarterback. He's going to be a Heisman winner, you know,
1665
01:19:25.880 --> 01:19:28.439
potential Heisman runner up or something. We're going to put
1666
01:19:28.479 --> 01:19:30.960
him in the Heisman rate. So he's if he's going
1667
01:19:31.000 --> 01:19:32.960
to be in the Heisman race, doesn't he have to
1668
01:19:32.960 --> 01:19:35.279
have a girlfriend? Like, oh, how do we insert that?
1669
01:19:36.000 --> 01:19:36.199
Oh?
1670
01:19:36.239 --> 01:19:38.520
Hey, he's just after practice. He just walks into this
1671
01:19:38.600 --> 01:19:40.279
girl like you would to go have a beer with me.
1672
01:19:40.720 --> 01:19:46.800
I don't date football players. It's just like yeah, yeah, yeah.
1673
01:19:46.840 --> 01:19:49.199
And she what was it? She was the first jockey'd
1674
01:19:49.199 --> 01:19:51.199
ever dated, so you know what that was like? You know,
1675
01:19:51.279 --> 01:19:54.760
so because she was a four nied jock just like him. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
1676
01:19:54.920 --> 01:19:58.720
and she just didn't understand yep, Like, how did how
1677
01:19:58.720 --> 01:19:59.319
do I deal with you?
1678
01:19:59.359 --> 01:20:01.760
Because you're a Yeah, I'm.
1679
01:20:01.600 --> 01:20:04.880
Telling you man. They had it where he was gay,
1680
01:20:05.039 --> 01:20:06.760
and they just they had to just.
1681
01:20:06.840 --> 01:20:09.359
They can't make him gay.
1682
01:20:08.840 --> 01:20:12.359
Telling you, and they they wanted they just wanted to
1683
01:20:12.399 --> 01:20:13.319
breach that so bad.
1684
01:20:13.560 --> 01:20:17.239
They can't make him, don't have to do. They can't
1685
01:20:17.239 --> 01:20:19.359
do that because he got thrown off the team. That
1686
01:20:19.359 --> 01:20:22.199
would have been not acceptable. I mean, heck, in the nineties,
1687
01:20:22.239 --> 01:20:26.239
being gay wasn't wasn't acceptable just in regular life basically,
1688
01:20:26.279 --> 01:20:29.119
you know, like in regular entertainment life. They would have
1689
01:20:29.119 --> 01:20:31.039
been like, you're gay, and then that that you're you're
1690
01:20:31.159 --> 01:20:32.960
you would have been othered immediately. It'd have been a
1691
01:20:33.000 --> 01:20:35.880
whole big problem. So let alone be on a football team.
1692
01:20:35.920 --> 01:20:37.960
On a football team, they'd been like, you're gay. Well,
1693
01:20:38.039 --> 01:20:41.079
then you're just off the team, right right that we
1694
01:20:41.079 --> 01:20:44.319
don't care who you are, you're off, especially the quarterback
1695
01:20:44.359 --> 01:20:44.680
you're going.
1696
01:20:45.039 --> 01:20:48.439
But I'm telling you, man.
1697
01:20:48.840 --> 01:20:50.920
Jim, it is always great to talk about movies with you.
1698
01:20:51.319 --> 01:20:53.520
If you were listening to the show on Apple Podcasts,
1699
01:20:53.520 --> 01:20:56.399
please rate and review it as it helps other people
1700
01:20:56.560 --> 01:20:58.720
find the show, and if you like to continue the
1701
01:20:58.760 --> 01:21:02.520
conversation about this or any other sports movies, contact us
1702
01:21:02.560 --> 01:21:07.720
on our discord page at true story dot fm. Please like, rate, review,
1703
01:21:08.000 --> 01:21:10.560
and most importantly, share this podcast with anyone you know
1704
01:21:10.640 --> 01:21:27.439
them of sports and movies. Welcome and thank you for
1705
01:21:27.520 --> 01:21:29.960
listening to this bonus section of the Adream Moment. And
1706
01:21:30.000 --> 01:21:32.840
this is a sample of the types of conversations you
1707
01:21:32.880 --> 01:21:36.439
will hear if you become a member. All right, Jim,
1708
01:21:36.560 --> 01:21:37.960
let's talk about the last game.
1709
01:21:38.760 --> 01:21:40.479
Let's do it the last game.
1710
01:21:40.439 --> 01:21:45.039
And so and really, you know, the game itself was your, your, your,
1711
01:21:45.079 --> 01:21:48.439
your basic game. They are they're playing there a little
1712
01:21:48.439 --> 01:21:51.079
bit behind because they were having a lackluster first half,
1713
01:21:51.479 --> 01:21:54.279
and then they get the inspirational It really kind of
1714
01:21:54.359 --> 01:21:57.319
it's colored by numbers. They're behind early, they get the
1715
01:21:57.359 --> 01:22:01.600
inspirational speech from the coach after or they've been playing poorly.
1716
01:22:02.199 --> 01:22:05.800
They've now been told that the starting quarterback that should
1717
01:22:05.800 --> 01:22:07.800
have been the starting quarterback, Joe Caine, our hero, is
1718
01:22:07.800 --> 01:22:10.159
going to come back in and play, and that the
1719
01:22:10.199 --> 01:22:13.439
backup quarterback that was just there to be a seat filler,
1720
01:22:13.720 --> 01:22:16.000
he's now out. And then they're going to come back
1721
01:22:16.039 --> 01:22:18.359
in the second half and then you know, win the game.
1722
01:22:18.520 --> 01:22:21.560
And so I think that there was at least two
1723
01:22:21.600 --> 01:22:25.800
aspects about that that wanted to discuss, And the first
1724
01:22:25.840 --> 01:22:28.439
one was the interesting you brought up about the final play.
1725
01:22:28.520 --> 01:22:30.880
So I'll let you want. Why don't you just serve
1726
01:22:30.960 --> 01:22:32.880
up what you want to talk about that final play
1727
01:22:32.920 --> 01:22:33.880
and then we'll go from there.
1728
01:22:34.239 --> 01:22:36.840
All right, So, as I'm rewatching the movie, man, I'm
1729
01:22:36.920 --> 01:22:40.279
just like, I gotta ask you the question, you being
1730
01:22:40.319 --> 01:22:42.840
the referee, just me being the sports fan that I am.
1731
01:22:43.039 --> 01:22:45.119
I felt like I was right, but I got to
1732
01:22:45.159 --> 01:22:49.119
ask you. That last play, he's rolling out and he's
1733
01:22:49.159 --> 01:22:52.239
getting ready to throw, and he like does this pump
1734
01:22:52.319 --> 01:22:56.960
fake thing. Maybe the guy's covered, but the ball fumbles
1735
01:22:57.279 --> 01:23:01.039
and he's running and he scoops it up and he's
1736
01:23:01.119 --> 01:23:04.039
able to complete the pass. I'm like, the ball's dead.
1737
01:23:04.159 --> 01:23:07.039
He made a forward motion with his arm and the
1738
01:23:07.119 --> 01:23:10.720
ball came out and hit the ground. Dead play. But
1739
01:23:10.760 --> 01:23:13.880
in the movie it continues on. So what says you,
1740
01:23:14.000 --> 01:23:15.319
good referee.
1741
01:23:15.680 --> 01:23:18.680
That's an incomplete pass and the game is yes.
1742
01:23:18.720 --> 01:23:22.800
Yes, yes, yes. I was like, this is a huge,
1743
01:23:23.039 --> 01:23:28.000
massive dramatization. Every football person knows that the play is over.
1744
01:23:28.439 --> 01:23:31.560
You guys are losers. No ball game, free bowl game
1745
01:23:31.640 --> 01:23:37.640
for you. You're in. You win, You lost game over, movie over,
1746
01:23:39.039 --> 01:23:40.319
next season, We'll move on.
1747
01:23:41.279 --> 01:23:44.479
Yes, Georgia Tech wins that game. So the the interesting
1748
01:23:44.479 --> 01:23:46.840
thing to me about that was there is an aspect,
1749
01:23:46.840 --> 01:23:48.520
of course, in any movie you want to lost some
1750
01:23:48.560 --> 01:23:50.920
type of dramatic license, but that play definitely is an
1751
01:23:50.960 --> 01:23:54.159
incomplete pass, and so I started thinking about, well, what
1752
01:23:54.199 --> 01:23:56.960
would actually happen in that scenario. So you have there
1753
01:23:57.039 --> 01:23:59.920
is a few things. One thing they have now that
1754
01:24:00.079 --> 01:24:02.520
they did not have a nineteen ninety three's instant replay.
1755
01:24:02.600 --> 01:24:04.760
So let's talk about this in terms of different divisions
1756
01:24:04.760 --> 01:24:08.359
of college football. Instant replays all through the Division one,
1757
01:24:08.720 --> 01:24:11.399
Division two has a version of it, and Division three
1758
01:24:11.880 --> 01:24:14.560
for the most part does not do instant replay. So
1759
01:24:14.760 --> 01:24:16.319
when and I'm going to nerd out a little bit
1760
01:24:16.359 --> 01:24:20.079
about with the visioning about how this will yes nerd out.
1761
01:24:20.119 --> 01:24:24.199
So then in Division one with instant replay, one of
1762
01:24:24.239 --> 01:24:26.960
two things would have happened. The referee would have either
1763
01:24:27.359 --> 01:24:32.000
blown that dead when that happened, or more likely now,
1764
01:24:32.439 --> 01:24:35.239
same scenario happens today in a Division one game. They
1765
01:24:35.319 --> 01:24:37.319
let it go. They let it go, and they let
1766
01:24:37.359 --> 01:24:40.720
it play out, and then once the score happened, the
1767
01:24:40.880 --> 01:24:43.880
whole play goes back to instant review because they review
1768
01:24:43.880 --> 01:24:47.039
all scoring plays, it goes to replay, and then what
1769
01:24:47.079 --> 01:24:49.199
will happen is replay will then look at not only
1770
01:24:49.279 --> 01:24:53.000
the score, but then potentially that will also look at
1771
01:24:53.159 --> 01:24:56.399
that specific thing that fumble to rule on, was that
1772
01:24:56.520 --> 01:24:58.159
a pass or a fumble. They will look at that,
1773
01:24:58.239 --> 01:25:00.439
they will see that it's incomplete pass, and play will
1774
01:25:00.479 --> 01:25:03.279
come up on and say that was an incomplete pass,
1775
01:25:03.800 --> 01:25:07.520
so the touchdown doesn't count. Now what would happen now,
1776
01:25:07.560 --> 01:25:09.399
I don't remember what down it was when they I
1777
01:25:09.399 --> 01:25:11.479
think it was fourth. I think it was fourth down.
1778
01:25:11.520 --> 01:25:12.680
I think that was I think it was that was
1779
01:25:12.760 --> 01:25:13.119
the game.
1780
01:25:13.520 --> 01:25:15.880
No, I think it was the second because they were
1781
01:25:15.920 --> 01:25:18.000
running out of time. There were seventeen seconds left. That
1782
01:25:18.159 --> 01:25:21.439
just got the ball back. They hit the play to
1783
01:25:21.520 --> 01:25:24.560
Griffin on the sideline and that gave him like seven
1784
01:25:24.600 --> 01:25:26.119
seconds left and he was asked, do you want to
1785
01:25:26.159 --> 01:25:27.880
tie it with three? And he's like, no, give me
1786
01:25:27.920 --> 01:25:28.920
the fucking ball.
1787
01:25:28.960 --> 01:25:32.640
Yes exactly. Yeah. So then they called that player yes okay,
1788
01:25:32.680 --> 01:25:35.560
and so then yeah, so they What would have happened
1789
01:25:35.600 --> 01:25:37.399
then is it would be in complete passed. It would
1790
01:25:37.399 --> 01:25:39.159
have been whatever the next down is, and they would
1791
01:25:39.159 --> 01:25:43.279
have stopped the clock and then and then uh, the
1792
01:25:43.319 --> 01:25:45.119
offense would have been able to run another play, assuming
1793
01:25:45.119 --> 01:25:47.399
it wasn't fourth down. I just don't remember what downright, I.
1794
01:25:47.359 --> 01:25:47.640
Think it was.
1795
01:25:48.520 --> 01:25:51.239
Yeah, I think it was first yes, yeah, yeah, they
1796
01:25:51.520 --> 01:25:53.640
had the ball second down, and then the player had
1797
01:25:53.640 --> 01:25:55.840
been dead there. Yeah, so the second down with however
1798
01:25:55.880 --> 01:25:59.680
many seconds left, so that person, well first and whatever
1799
01:25:59.720 --> 01:26:01.239
it was, I don't know, there was first and goal,
1800
01:26:02.079 --> 01:26:04.239
it was first and whatever it was. So yeah, still
1801
01:26:05.000 --> 01:26:07.840
definitely first. Yes, yes, so it had been second down,
1802
01:26:08.239 --> 01:26:11.079
so it had been second down. And however, whether this
1803
01:26:11.319 --> 01:26:14.520
was with some time left and they could have run
1804
01:26:14.600 --> 01:26:17.119
the play and then the game would have ended after
1805
01:26:17.159 --> 01:26:20.399
that play. Now, in division that's Division one, all versions
1806
01:26:20.399 --> 01:26:23.720
of Division one to do that. In Division two, you have
1807
01:26:24.279 --> 01:26:26.479
a higher probability that the referee would have blown it
1808
01:26:26.479 --> 01:26:28.840
dead immediately because they don't think of you don't think
1809
01:26:28.880 --> 01:26:30.920
of replay as much in Division two as you do
1810
01:26:30.960 --> 01:26:34.079
in Division one. But however, in Division two, had that
1811
01:26:34.079 --> 01:26:37.800
play happened, the coach of Georgia Tech, assuming this is
1812
01:26:37.800 --> 01:26:41.199
a Division two game, could have challenged that play. And
1813
01:26:41.239 --> 01:26:43.079
then what happens is in Division two they have this
1814
01:26:43.199 --> 01:26:45.239
version where you have a couple of ankles that are
1815
01:26:45.239 --> 01:26:46.760
on the side. There's like one on the sideline and
1816
01:26:46.840 --> 01:26:48.960
one you have a sideline view and an end zone view,
1817
01:26:49.279 --> 01:26:51.000
and they're not the best film in the world. But
1818
01:26:51.039 --> 01:26:53.600
then the referee and then the one of the other
1819
01:26:53.680 --> 01:26:56.600
officials will go underneath the booth and look at these
1820
01:26:56.640 --> 01:27:00.159
plays on it's literally on an iPad, and so you're
1821
01:27:00.199 --> 01:27:02.520
looking at these plays on an iPad, and then you
1822
01:27:02.520 --> 01:27:05.479
would then decide if it was incomplete passionate, assuming you
1823
01:27:05.479 --> 01:27:07.319
had an angle like the end zone angle that looks
1824
01:27:07.359 --> 01:27:10.199
similarly to what they saw in the movie. Again, incomplete
1825
01:27:10.239 --> 01:27:14.800
pass So that's what would happened now Division three. In today,
1826
01:27:14.800 --> 01:27:18.159
there's no replay, so then it would all be based
1827
01:27:18.199 --> 01:27:21.880
on who the referee is, and that's whether or not
1828
01:27:21.920 --> 01:27:24.399
they were willing to call that play right.
1829
01:27:24.279 --> 01:27:27.479
Then, Yeah, sooe would have been more like high school
1830
01:27:27.520 --> 01:27:29.159
like if they saw it, it would have been called.
1831
01:27:29.479 --> 01:27:33.399
Well, here's the thing. The referee would have seen it.
1832
01:27:33.399 --> 01:27:37.279
It's what it's in that moment what they decide to
1833
01:27:37.319 --> 01:27:39.640
do if they processed it fast enough, because it happens
1834
01:27:39.640 --> 01:27:43.000
pretty fast, so you'd have to process pretty quickly that hey,
1835
01:27:43.039 --> 01:27:45.520
that was forward, you know, and then it bounced. It
1836
01:27:45.800 --> 01:27:48.600
went forward and then bounced, because then you're you're then
1837
01:27:48.680 --> 01:27:51.279
asking yourself and then in the moment you start asking yourself,
1838
01:27:51.279 --> 01:27:53.960
who did it go backwards? Was it sideways? Like you know,
1839
01:27:53.960 --> 01:27:55.680
what happened? What happened there? And all that you know,
1840
01:27:55.760 --> 01:27:57.880
do you there are questions you could ask yourself, and
1841
01:27:57.920 --> 01:28:01.079
so that there there is in having been in that situation.
1842
01:28:01.199 --> 01:28:03.199
It is. It's one of those things where when you're
1843
01:28:03.199 --> 01:28:05.039
looking at it on film or you're looking at it
1844
01:28:05.079 --> 01:28:07.439
as a spectator and all that, it all seems really easy.
1845
01:28:07.439 --> 01:28:09.199
But as a referee, in a split second, it's the
1846
01:28:09.199 --> 01:28:11.239
thing that happens that you're not expecting to have happened,
1847
01:28:11.439 --> 01:28:12.920
and then all of a sudden you have to decide
1848
01:28:13.079 --> 01:28:15.159
is that forward or not in that moment, I'm not
1849
01:28:15.199 --> 01:28:17.079
gonna blow my whistle and kill this player. Just let
1850
01:28:17.079 --> 01:28:19.960
this happen, you know, because because that's because that is,
1851
01:28:20.800 --> 01:28:22.840
in a lot of ways, you're deciding the game. You're not,
1852
01:28:23.319 --> 01:28:25.920
it's not full on deciding the game, but you are.
1853
01:28:27.680 --> 01:28:30.399
It's a major call, right, so you they will get
1854
01:28:30.439 --> 01:28:33.239
another play because there is presumably still time left on
1855
01:28:33.279 --> 01:28:36.239
the clock. But that assumes there is, because the one
1856
01:28:36.239 --> 01:28:38.039
thing I found about, like when they do all that,
1857
01:28:38.079 --> 01:28:41.119
there was all that scrambling around. So so with all
1858
01:28:41.119 --> 01:28:43.319
that scrambling around, there may not be there may not
1859
01:28:43.359 --> 01:28:45.600
be any time left. So then if you kill that
1860
01:28:45.760 --> 01:28:48.399
and you call that in complete pass, you you know,
1861
01:28:48.800 --> 01:28:51.479
you're ending this game right and so, and there is
1862
01:28:51.520 --> 01:28:53.560
an aspect of that where it takes them. There's an
1863
01:28:53.600 --> 01:28:56.199
aspect of guts it takes to make that call in
1864
01:28:56.239 --> 01:28:59.239
that moment at that time on that type of a play,
1865
01:28:59.279 --> 01:29:02.079
because there will be questions about and you will sit
1866
01:29:02.119 --> 01:29:04.520
there as an official wondering did I get that right?
1867
01:29:04.600 --> 01:29:06.840
So when the film comes out in this case, you
1868
01:29:06.840 --> 01:29:08.640
would be glad when you saw it where it's like, Okay,
1869
01:29:08.680 --> 01:29:10.840
you got it right. But it's it's one of those
1870
01:29:10.880 --> 01:29:12.479
things that where in the moment at the time you
1871
01:29:12.479 --> 01:29:14.239
can easily get that wrong where you thought it went
1872
01:29:14.279 --> 01:29:16.359
for but it went sideways, or you thought it went
1873
01:29:16.439 --> 01:29:19.479
sideways but it went forward, And so that's what that's
1874
01:29:19.520 --> 01:29:23.000
what happened in Division three football. Yeah, so Division three
1875
01:29:23.039 --> 01:29:24.680
is it would be harder for that guy than everyone
1876
01:29:24.720 --> 01:29:27.680
else would have replay replay. With replay there to bail
1877
01:29:27.720 --> 01:29:30.640
you out, it's easier to get it right. But without replay,
1878
01:29:30.640 --> 01:29:33.359
it is very much about what do I decide at
1879
01:29:33.359 --> 01:29:33.840
this moment.
1880
01:29:34.399 --> 01:29:37.600
So in the moment of that play, are you throwing
1881
01:29:37.600 --> 01:29:40.840
a flag but letting the play continue and then getting
1882
01:29:40.920 --> 01:29:42.880
the rest of the zebras together so that you can
1883
01:29:42.920 --> 01:29:44.520
all talk about it.
1884
01:29:44.520 --> 01:29:47.319
It's not a penalty. Oh is it true?
1885
01:29:47.359 --> 01:29:47.560
Yeah?
1886
01:29:47.560 --> 01:29:52.439
Okay, so yeah he threw a Nickley past. That's that's legal. Yeah.
1887
01:29:53.279 --> 01:29:55.319
So there's no way to like, that's not a throw
1888
01:29:55.319 --> 01:29:58.239
of hat moment, throw a sandbag, throw something else, to
1889
01:29:58.279 --> 01:30:01.600
be like, this happened, we're gonna let it continue, let's
1890
01:30:01.640 --> 01:30:02.840
get together and talk about it.
1891
01:30:03.199 --> 01:30:07.840
You could technically let the plate go, then get together
1892
01:30:07.880 --> 01:30:09.560
and talk about it, and then decide that it was
1893
01:30:09.560 --> 01:30:15.079
a four pass. In that situation. If you did that, uh,
1894
01:30:15.960 --> 01:30:18.479
you better be one hundred percent sure you're right. It
1895
01:30:18.520 --> 01:30:20.640
would be such a big deal because in that situation,
1896
01:30:20.680 --> 01:30:22.720
when you stop and think about it, you don't have
1897
01:30:23.439 --> 01:30:27.720
you don't have replay, so you can't go back and say, okay,
1898
01:30:28.279 --> 01:30:31.279
how much time is left on the clock, right, the
1899
01:30:31.319 --> 01:30:34.079
game's over at this point, and so you would be
1900
01:30:34.239 --> 01:30:37.000
you basically would have allowed them to score a touchdown,
1901
01:30:37.399 --> 01:30:39.880
and then you got together and pieced it together as
1902
01:30:39.920 --> 01:30:41.840
a group and said, nope, that was a four pass,
1903
01:30:42.199 --> 01:30:44.399
that was an incomplete pass. That we're done. But then
1904
01:30:44.479 --> 01:30:46.560
you don't have a mechanism to say, well, how much
1905
01:30:46.560 --> 01:30:48.800
time is left now? You could do it by what's
1906
01:30:48.920 --> 01:30:50.520
you know, you could make an argument of like, okay,
1907
01:30:50.520 --> 01:30:52.680
we're gonna invote. There are there's there are rules you
1908
01:30:52.680 --> 01:30:54.439
can invote for this, where you could say, okay, we're
1909
01:30:54.439 --> 01:30:57.119
gonna let them have another play because we're doing this,
1910
01:30:57.560 --> 01:30:59.680
Like you could yeah, oh no, you do it untimed
1911
01:30:59.680 --> 01:31:01.159
down said we do it on time down to let
1912
01:31:01.199 --> 01:31:01.760
and have a play.
1913
01:31:01.640 --> 01:31:02.199
And do this right.
1914
01:31:02.239 --> 01:31:05.479
You can technically do that. You don't really have the
1915
01:31:05.560 --> 01:31:09.000
support of the rules to do it, but you could,
1916
01:31:09.079 --> 01:31:13.319
you know. But then realistically, with that, it then becomes
1917
01:31:13.399 --> 01:31:15.399
what is least likely is that you would get back
1918
01:31:15.399 --> 01:31:17.720
together and piece it together later. What you would do
1919
01:31:17.880 --> 01:31:20.960
is it would be up to the referee at that point.
1920
01:31:21.039 --> 01:31:22.640
He needs to make that call right then, and either
1921
01:31:22.640 --> 01:31:24.920
he kills it right then and that's the call, or
1922
01:31:25.279 --> 01:31:27.239
he lets it go and lives with the consequences of
1923
01:31:27.279 --> 01:31:30.359
getting a call wrong, which is in a sense what
1924
01:31:30.439 --> 01:31:32.880
this movie did. The referee decided to live with the
1925
01:31:32.880 --> 01:31:34.680
consequences of getting his call wrong because that was a
1926
01:31:34.720 --> 01:31:35.439
nickelpect pass.
1927
01:31:35.920 --> 01:31:38.039
So did he live with the consequences and let it
1928
01:31:38.079 --> 01:31:40.439
go because he wasn't in the right position or anything
1929
01:31:40.479 --> 01:31:43.119
like that, because you know, I get it. This is
1930
01:31:43.159 --> 01:31:45.359
a movie we got to have the referees, maybe not
1931
01:31:45.439 --> 01:31:47.920
in frame, but you know, you go through all of
1932
01:31:47.960 --> 01:31:50.039
the issues and not issues. You go through all of
1933
01:31:50.119 --> 01:31:53.039
the trouble of having all of these actors and all
1934
01:31:53.039 --> 01:31:56.760
of the extras go through a month long training camp
1935
01:31:56.840 --> 01:32:01.600
for football, and you have real refs this camp. And
1936
01:32:01.640 --> 01:32:04.920
then yet you hear you are in the movie and
1937
01:32:05.680 --> 01:32:08.159
you know, I'm wondering and I don't. I don't know
1938
01:32:08.199 --> 01:32:10.720
a whole lot about referee position or anything like that.
1939
01:32:11.199 --> 01:32:13.319
When I was playing football, I wasn't paying attention to that,
1940
01:32:13.439 --> 01:32:17.800
and I've just never really, I've never really paid much
1941
01:32:17.840 --> 01:32:20.359
attention to that. Now, going to football games with you
1942
01:32:20.560 --> 01:32:25.119
in the past, sharing an experience with you going to
1943
01:32:25.159 --> 01:32:27.359
a football game is a little different because, as I
1944
01:32:27.439 --> 01:32:30.720
understand it when you were talking with me, you don't
1945
01:32:30.760 --> 01:32:35.920
watch a football game like the average football seeker watches
1946
01:32:36.039 --> 01:32:38.560
a game live or otherwise. You're you're looking at the
1947
01:32:38.600 --> 01:32:42.039
referees and and yeah, you're watching the game too, but
1948
01:32:42.319 --> 01:32:44.359
you know you're you're watching it in a different in
1949
01:32:44.479 --> 01:32:49.439
different eyes. So like in this movie, for all of
1950
01:32:49.479 --> 01:32:52.119
the everything that they went through to make sure that
1951
01:32:52.399 --> 01:32:55.680
it looked and felt like football, and it does. They
1952
01:32:55.760 --> 01:32:58.960
do a great job of that. Did that play and
1953
01:32:59.000 --> 01:33:03.760
I get called and whistled down because the referees and
1954
01:33:03.800 --> 01:33:04.520
in the right position.
1955
01:33:06.840 --> 01:33:09.920
Yes, So in the in the in the film, there
1956
01:33:09.920 --> 01:33:12.199
are multiple times where referees are in the wrong position,
1957
01:33:12.720 --> 01:33:14.720
in the wrong positions. They're somewhere there on the field.
1958
01:33:14.800 --> 01:33:16.880
More that they're on the the guys in the line
1959
01:33:16.880 --> 01:33:20.359
of scrimmage are startting on the numbers. Back in this time, though,
1960
01:33:20.600 --> 01:33:23.720
it was there was the norm for officials to be
1961
01:33:23.880 --> 01:33:26.039
on the field. I actually was talking to some other
1962
01:33:26.039 --> 01:33:27.680
guys about it and they were like, yeah, well, way
1963
01:33:27.720 --> 01:33:30.680
back then, we were on the field, and I was like, oh,
1964
01:33:31.079 --> 01:33:34.119
like yeah, they were sometimes on the numbers, but on
1965
01:33:34.159 --> 01:33:37.000
the hats on the field. So all the officials now
1966
01:33:37.079 --> 01:33:39.600
except for the two that are in the the three
1967
01:33:39.640 --> 01:33:42.039
that are in the middle, you know, except for those three.
1968
01:33:42.399 --> 01:33:44.359
In college football game, you'll see all the all the
1969
01:33:44.439 --> 01:33:46.039
officials that are on the sidelines, like on the line
1970
01:33:46.079 --> 01:33:48.159
of scrimmage, you know, the lines that they're all off
1971
01:33:48.199 --> 01:33:50.760
the field. They're out of bounds, and then they officiate
1972
01:33:50.800 --> 01:33:52.920
out of bounds and they stay out of bounds during
1973
01:33:52.960 --> 01:33:54.680
the whole play until the play is over. Then they'll
1974
01:33:54.680 --> 01:33:57.079
come in but they stay out of bounds, whereas back
1975
01:33:57.119 --> 01:33:59.319
then you started where you were in bounds, so you
1976
01:33:59.359 --> 01:34:01.319
were on the field, like you know, you weren't necessay
1977
01:34:01.359 --> 01:34:02.960
all the way to the numbers, you weren't that closed,
1978
01:34:02.960 --> 01:34:05.560
but you were on it. And so uh, and now
1979
01:34:05.720 --> 01:34:07.560
the reason to move them off the field was it's
1980
01:34:07.600 --> 01:34:09.960
safer because you effectively have it when you have these
1981
01:34:09.960 --> 01:34:12.439
officials that are on the field but are you know,
1982
01:34:12.479 --> 01:34:14.159
and are considered part of the field, like you can
1983
01:34:14.199 --> 01:34:16.439
just hit them, and so they're in an unsafe scenario.
1984
01:34:16.560 --> 01:34:16.720
Fire.
1985
01:34:16.760 --> 01:34:18.600
I'm on the field and the play is coming at me,
1986
01:34:18.720 --> 01:34:20.600
so let's let's get me off the field. So it
1987
01:34:20.640 --> 01:34:23.920
doesn't occur now in this uh, in this play as
1988
01:34:23.960 --> 01:34:27.039
far as where the referee was, so yes, And so
1989
01:34:27.119 --> 01:34:29.640
that I will flies back a little bit about not
1990
01:34:29.680 --> 01:34:31.319
only how it works now, there's some of how it
1991
01:34:31.319 --> 01:34:33.560
works now, but then also that how it worked then
1992
01:34:34.039 --> 01:34:37.159
and how it worked then the referee would be on
1993
01:34:37.439 --> 01:34:39.960
so you'd be behind the quarterback, but he'd be behind
1994
01:34:40.000 --> 01:34:44.800
the quarterback based on what arm does the quarterback throw with? Okay,
1995
01:34:44.840 --> 01:34:47.319
and so if the quarterback throws the ball with his
1996
01:34:47.520 --> 01:34:50.560
right arm, the referee is on the right side, and
1997
01:34:50.600 --> 01:34:52.760
if the quarterback throws the ball with his left arm,
1998
01:34:52.800 --> 01:34:55.199
then the quarterback then the referee is on the left side,
1999
01:34:55.239 --> 01:34:56.960
and that is what it is. Now when you look
2000
01:34:57.000 --> 01:34:59.800
at this play, when he's scrambling around, you can see
2001
01:34:59.840 --> 01:35:03.800
that the referee was on Joe's left side, which is
2002
01:35:03.960 --> 01:35:06.199
the wrong side. Had he been on his right side,
2003
01:35:06.239 --> 01:35:06.960
he would have seen this.
2004
01:35:08.479 --> 01:35:12.840
Okay, all right. So then because at first when I'm rewatching,
2005
01:35:12.880 --> 01:35:15.000
I'm like, okay, this place should be dead, you know,
2006
01:35:15.039 --> 01:35:17.640
And I'm like, oh, this is just movie magic. But no,
2007
01:35:17.720 --> 01:35:20.600
as we're talking it out, if he's in the wrong position,
2008
01:35:22.239 --> 01:35:26.159
then he doesn't see it. So yeah, he's able to
2009
01:35:26.159 --> 01:35:28.279
scoop up the ball and continue to play because as
2010
01:35:28.319 --> 01:35:30.359
far as he's seen it, because he's behind him, he's
2011
01:35:30.359 --> 01:35:33.680
behind all the action. All he's seen is Joe's running
2012
01:35:33.720 --> 01:35:37.279
away and he's trying to not get tackled, and then
2013
01:35:37.279 --> 01:35:40.680
he made this throw on the run down the way
2014
01:35:40.680 --> 01:35:42.479
and they got a touchdown. So that's all. That's all
2015
01:35:42.800 --> 01:35:44.199
The referee is seen from his.
2016
01:35:44.119 --> 01:35:46.880
Angle, correct from his angle, because he's starting on the
2017
01:35:46.920 --> 01:35:49.359
wrong side of them, some of that is going to
2018
01:35:49.399 --> 01:35:52.760
be blocked by the player's body. And so he won't
2019
01:35:52.800 --> 01:35:55.680
know if it went forward or sideways. Necessarily he won't
2020
01:35:55.680 --> 01:35:58.479
have a good angle to really judge that. And since
2021
01:35:58.520 --> 01:36:00.920
that is such a big thing, when in doubt, you
2022
01:36:00.960 --> 01:36:04.039
would just let that go, okay.
2023
01:36:04.199 --> 01:36:07.720
So then anybody else on the officiating crew can be like, no, no, no, no, boss,
2024
01:36:07.800 --> 01:36:11.039
this it's not like this, he dropped it and he
2025
01:36:11.119 --> 01:36:11.479
picked up.
2026
01:36:11.520 --> 01:36:13.119
Oh, I mean because someone else made that call.
2027
01:36:13.880 --> 01:36:15.960
I mean, obviously the play is going to go down,
2028
01:36:16.039 --> 01:36:20.560
but you know, after the touchdown, I'm imagining somebody should
2029
01:36:20.600 --> 01:36:23.000
be waving their arms, blowing a whistle, running over to
2030
01:36:23.039 --> 01:36:25.520
the rift and go and tattletale and be like, hey,
2031
01:36:25.640 --> 01:36:26.760
you know he dropped the phone.
2032
01:36:27.880 --> 01:36:31.840
Technically okay, So if you were a line of scrimmage
2033
01:36:31.840 --> 01:36:35.520
official in that scenario, technically yes you could. You could
2034
01:36:35.560 --> 01:36:38.680
make that call, but you would have to be again
2035
01:36:38.760 --> 01:36:41.439
in a scenario where you are a thousand percent sure
2036
01:36:41.560 --> 01:36:46.359
you're right, because it's not your call. And so so
2037
01:36:46.399 --> 01:36:48.399
then there's a thing of where if you did that,
2038
01:36:48.560 --> 01:36:51.199
not only the worst thing of course to doing, you know,
2039
01:36:51.279 --> 01:36:54.920
making any incorrect calls is worse than is the worst
2040
01:36:54.960 --> 01:36:57.079
thing possible, but then potentially what you'd be doing is
2041
01:36:57.079 --> 01:37:00.279
you would be coming in and ending a game area
2042
01:37:00.279 --> 01:37:04.880
where it's not your call. But technically, yes, if he
2043
01:37:04.960 --> 01:37:06.920
or she sees it and they are one hundred percent
2044
01:37:06.960 --> 01:37:09.399
sure that they're right, then yeah they can. They can
2045
01:37:09.439 --> 01:37:11.760
do that, but they would also be in the same scenario.
2046
01:37:11.880 --> 01:37:16.560
It means shutting it down. Now, you you can technically
2047
01:37:16.600 --> 01:37:18.800
get together and figure it out and come back later.
2048
01:37:18.840 --> 01:37:23.079
But if that just you know, there's not at the
2049
01:37:23.119 --> 01:37:26.279
collegiate level, I cannot think of any officials that would
2050
01:37:26.479 --> 01:37:30.319
do that. They would just we're just gonna eat it there.
2051
01:37:30.359 --> 01:37:31.920
We're not We're not gonna they're not gonna get back
2052
01:37:31.920 --> 01:37:34.239
together and figure it out afterwards. They're just gonna say like, well,
2053
01:37:34.239 --> 01:37:36.159
we're just gonna we're going with what happened here and
2054
01:37:36.199 --> 01:37:37.079
that's it.
2055
01:37:37.199 --> 01:37:38.239
Just let's walk off the field.
2056
01:37:38.239 --> 01:37:41.079
They correct. Correct, let's yes, correct. Because even if you
2057
01:37:41.119 --> 01:37:44.479
think about what it would take to unwind that, because
2058
01:37:44.520 --> 01:37:47.399
the game's over, they are celebrating, they are on the field,
2059
01:37:47.439 --> 01:37:49.840
there's there's all sorts of other things, it actually creates
2060
01:37:49.840 --> 01:37:53.039
a scenario where it actually creates a bunch of problems
2061
01:37:53.079 --> 01:37:55.000
because then it's like, okay, well then does that mean
2062
01:37:55.000 --> 01:37:58.159
there's another play? If there's another play then, like you know, now,
2063
01:37:58.159 --> 01:38:00.479
if you get everybody off the field, you know, and
2064
01:38:00.479 --> 01:38:02.279
then you reset all this uff up and doing a
2065
01:38:02.319 --> 01:38:04.840
whole nother planet. Yeah, it's just it's it's it's a
2066
01:38:04.920 --> 01:38:08.039
giant mess. Okay, now, well, then with replay it can
2067
01:38:08.039 --> 01:38:11.960
happen because with replay, everybody understands that's the deal. Everybody understands. Okay,
2068
01:38:12.479 --> 01:38:16.399
you know, yes, you would still celebrate like that, but coaches, players,
2069
01:38:16.479 --> 01:38:20.079
everybody knows replay needs to say, yes, this is a
2070
01:38:20.119 --> 01:38:21.119
touchdown before.
2071
01:38:20.880 --> 01:38:23.880
It's a touchdown, right right, And that's and that's cut
2072
01:38:24.439 --> 01:38:29.039
many games off guard where there is instant replay used because.
2073
01:38:28.960 --> 01:38:31.199
Those that doesn't stop the excitement for the celebration of
2074
01:38:31.239 --> 01:38:33.359
that moment. And so you still definitely you still definitely
2075
01:38:33.359 --> 01:38:36.000
absolutely have that. But at the same time, the coaches,
2076
01:38:36.479 --> 01:38:39.279
and that's the main thing there, the coaches, everybody does
2077
01:38:39.479 --> 01:38:42.439
understand that replay has to say it's a touchdown before
2078
01:38:42.439 --> 01:38:44.279
it's a touchdown. But if you don't have that for
2079
01:38:44.399 --> 01:38:46.520
us to get back together and then say, oh, yeah,
2080
01:38:46.560 --> 01:38:50.479
that's not a touchdown, that's no, no, that's it's a
2081
01:38:50.479 --> 01:38:55.720
walk away. Let's we're not doing that. Let's just let's
2082
01:38:55.760 --> 01:38:58.479
go crough exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that would even
2083
01:38:58.479 --> 01:39:00.159
require it for that to happen, and that would how
2084
01:39:00.199 --> 01:39:02.439
that conversation happened, because even if that would have happened,
2085
01:39:02.479 --> 01:39:03.840
like it'd be a thing of friend like you could
2086
01:39:03.840 --> 01:39:06.880
maybe have it with that conversation comes up, like you know,
2087
01:39:07.760 --> 01:39:09.560
way after the game we started to talk about that
2088
01:39:09.600 --> 01:39:11.039
whole thing and break it down that way, but like
2089
01:39:11.079 --> 01:39:13.199
we would not at that time if anyone had that
2090
01:39:13.199 --> 01:39:14.840
type of knowledge, they would kill it right away.
2091
01:39:15.119 --> 01:39:18.000
Well then, I mean to me, then I think it
2092
01:39:18.560 --> 01:39:24.800
just puts an extra explanation mark about how cool, how
2093
01:39:24.840 --> 01:39:29.439
awesome this movie is for football goers, because I mean,
2094
01:39:29.479 --> 01:39:32.039
it's just like that little bit of a detail. Now
2095
01:39:32.039 --> 01:39:34.640
here we are, we're talking talking it out, you're looking
2096
01:39:34.680 --> 01:39:37.399
at the angle of things from a referees perspective, you're
2097
01:39:37.399 --> 01:39:40.680
looking back over at the at the video of the
2098
01:39:40.680 --> 01:39:43.359
movie at that point in time. It's just like one
2099
01:39:43.359 --> 01:39:46.399
of those small little football details that I think is
2100
01:39:46.640 --> 01:39:49.640
really cool aspect of this movie that they really get
2101
01:39:49.760 --> 01:39:54.399
football right when it comes down to the action, the look,
2102
01:39:54.439 --> 01:39:57.399
that feel and the sound that here is something that
2103
01:39:58.279 --> 01:40:01.640
can happen and in the nineties could have gotten wrong
2104
01:40:01.640 --> 01:40:04.680
and the play goes on and everybody moves on about
2105
01:40:04.680 --> 01:40:05.359
their marry day.
2106
01:40:05.880 --> 01:40:08.840
Yes, yeah, I agree with that totally. In the nineties,
2107
01:40:08.960 --> 01:40:12.079
given the situation where the officials were what happened, they
2108
01:40:12.119 --> 01:40:12.840
would have gotten it.
2109
01:40:12.800 --> 01:40:15.439
Wrong, right right, yeah, and it's the wrong it's the
2110
01:40:15.439 --> 01:40:17.359
wrong thing. But I mean it just adds more to
2111
01:40:17.439 --> 01:40:22.119
the dramatization of the importance of that play in the movie.
2112
01:40:22.319 --> 01:40:22.560
You know.
2113
01:40:22.760 --> 01:40:26.880
It's like just that that tiny detail where it could
2114
01:40:26.960 --> 01:40:28.760
be easy to get excited. Like I was, was like, ah,
2115
01:40:28.760 --> 01:40:31.760
I should be dead. Play, the movie's over, We're done, whoa,
2116
01:40:31.880 --> 01:40:35.800
you know, screw you, next city, next season. But it's
2117
01:40:35.840 --> 01:40:39.359
there for purpose. It's it's there because it could have
2118
01:40:39.600 --> 01:40:42.960
actually occurred on a football field. More than likely it has,
2119
01:40:43.119 --> 01:40:45.439
and it was probably happened to somebody that was close
2120
01:40:45.479 --> 01:40:47.520
to the writing group, And I was like, take it.
2121
01:40:47.600 --> 01:40:51.159
I remember my team. It was so close in this
2122
01:40:51.279 --> 01:40:53.159
type of play. You know, they wrote it in there,
2123
01:40:53.880 --> 01:40:55.840
you know. So I mean now I think I think
2124
01:40:55.880 --> 01:40:58.079
that's just kind of cool. So thanks for breaking it down.
2125
01:40:58.319 --> 01:41:01.239
I think that's that's great for for us and our
2126
01:41:01.279 --> 01:41:05.079
listeners too, to be able to hear how this play
2127
01:41:05.159 --> 01:41:10.079
could have continued on and even in today's market of
2128
01:41:10.279 --> 01:41:14.199
the n c a A today's market, today's market, you
2129
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can still happen awesome.
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Well, thank you very much for bringing this up. It's
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been great to talk about this