131: Testosterone Screening and The Line of Departure

WEBVTT
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Peek behind the curtain of the Softly Training Lab with the Softly Performance Podcast.
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The pinnacle of human performance is out there, and we intend to find it.
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Welcome, welcome to the next episode of the Softly Performance Podcast.
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I'm your host, host, Coach G, and with me I've got Coach Matt.
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Today we're talking about a couple things.
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Obviously, if you're listening to this, you are more than aware there's been some changes on the DOW side as far as, let's say, the norms.
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So, for example, waist-to-hip ratio, which we're not going to be talking about today.
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I don't know enough about it, other than that no matter what doctrinal change you pass down, you're going to piss somebody off.
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And also what we ri what I really wanted to talk about today was just our thoughts on testosterone screening.
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If uh you've been listening to this, you will remember, particularly if you haven't, I would suggest go listening to Dr.
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Nick Baringer's podcast episode with us, where towards the end, he starts talking about the value of blood testing, specific to military first responder communities, and how it would be nice to have some kind of baseline.
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You can imagine people are coming out of the woodwork and I I don't, I don't know, criticizing it on the surface.
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Because I understand though, I understand why, and I'm Matt, I'm sure, is in the same frame of mind, in that on the surface, it doesn't sound like a great idea, but we need to start somewhere.
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And I do think we need should be measuring something.
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I'm more interested in the longitudinal data that we'll we'll potentially see over time.
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We don't have that right now.
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I mean, it's all downstream.
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But if you have a big thing.
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Sorry to cut you off, mate.
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Just for people who aren't plugged into like DOD stuff, can you like can you unpack, can you explain what the policy changes?
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Yes.
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Okay.
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Now looking like now, uh true to the theme, I think, of the direction that of the podcast, we wanna we wanna take this in.
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It's not like I'm not gonna sit here and read the Marine Corps order Papa 1020 golf.
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I can't believe I still fucking remember that.
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I'm not gonna hear and read exactly verbatim what the doctrine says.
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I'm just going to paraphrase what the current Secretary of Ward uh Hesgeth is saying.
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Essentially, we want to start screening people for testosterone and low testosterone levels.
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That's the idea.
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So, hypothetically speaking, you're in this high threshold, high stress, high cortisol demand environment for an extended amount of time.
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Theoretically, your testosterone production should be lower.
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And the question is, should we be, well, the idea or aim is we will now start testosterone replacement therapy for you if you qualify and you're marked as low.
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So all that being said, man, I feel like if I just talk, you're probably gonna have the same ideas that I do.
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So what are your thoughts when I say, hey, we're gonna start screening people for testosterone, low testosterone in a in a department of war or defense?
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Yeah, so I so I think so I think like you, I think it's potentially a really positive step in a really positive direction.
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Um I think it's like a lot of integration of new tech and new ideas and things like that, like with the machine learning and and the AI models and things like that.
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I think that we have to start moving in the right direction and be prepared to kind of stumble, like be prepared for it not to be perfect out the gate.
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No, I think the the kind of the big caveat to all that is that this isn't machine learning, this isn't tech as such, as such.
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This is like this is medicine.
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And anytime you start doing stuff like that, again, like let me finish my point first.
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Anytime you start doing stuff like that, a bit like with scanning and things like that, it's all fantastic to have the access and the ability to do that.
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You do run the risk of over-medicalizing people.
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I think I have to be a bit careful talking about this stuff because culturally you guys are in the States, you are very different to us in the UK with with how you sort of view the medical system and and you're kind of You can just say it, man.
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You don't have to pay for healthcare in the UK.
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So we don't have to pay for healthcare in the UK.
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In in the military, it's kind of a very similar setup, it's to you guys in that it's private.
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I find well, I have noticed in just kind of broader society since living in the States, that you you guys are kind of way more focused on like medical intervention early on as opposed to kind of lifestyle stuff.
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And that's not always a bad thing.
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Like some of the some of the research and stuff that's that's getting done and some of the protocols that you guys have available are like light years ahead of what we have on the NHS, which is the socialised medicine system in the UK.
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Just for clarity, if you if you serve in the UK, you're under effectively private medical, so it that stuff doesn't apply.
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But um, yeah, so I think it's that's not always a detriment, but I think that is something that we have to be aware of where you're potentially risking, like seeing the truth from the wood, like you're potentially risking creating a problem that isn't there because you're like overly testing and overly medicalizing things.
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And we know that stuff like stuff like testosterone is is an incredibly valuable and uh useful insight, but we don't want to become overly reductionist and like make it binary, either you're you're good or you're bad in terms of testosterone levels because it's so multifactorial.
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Well, yeah, when you say multifactorial, that's exactly where my head goes.
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I mean, the the the immediate response, the practitioner in me is like, okay, that's fine.
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What's your sleep look like?
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What's your alcohol intake?
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Those common sense things that we've been beaten like the war drum forever, because you could like that that's who I'm I'm thinking of the shit bag who I served with, who does not take care of themselves, borderline, light duty in the med bay all the time because he's so busted.
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Well, he's doing all these things wrong.
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Of course, he's gonna have low test.
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So, so yeah, sure, you give him more tests.
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Here's the other thing that people don't consider.
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That can be potentially, it's a non-zero chance, a lifelong thing that you have to do.
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Yeah.
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Right.
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So once you open that door, you're you're replacing hormones.
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You have to do that for the rest of your life, potentially.
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And and that's that's true on both.
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So I we should stress that neither G or I are kind of qualified in in medical practitioners.
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So we're talking about this from the perspective of a strength conditioning coach.
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Um, but that's both true on like a physiological, but also like a like a psychological aspect.
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Physiology is is like you said, we know with with often with hormone replacements, like your your own production is going to start to ramp down.
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And we don't always see that come back up when you when you wean off it, for want of a better term.
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But that's equally true psychologically.
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If you if you know that you've got like a get out of jail free card, if you like, if you get used to, ah, it's okay.
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I can I can keep like I can keep running three hours of sleep, I can keep snorting pre-workout.
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When you then have that that taken away from you, and there's very real side effects associated with TRT, so it might get taken away from you at some point.
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Yeah, that that that can kind of lead people to crash and burn, I think.
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Shit, man, you like lead to getting taken away.
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I can't even consider like the a level of chaos that's in currently involved with the veteran healthcare system.
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When I say veteran, I don't mean active duty, it's very whiplashy, right?
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And it's very much under attack.
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So I can only imagine if I'm active duty, I get screened and and they're telling me that I need testosterone replacement therapy and it's approved right now.
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We don't know whether it'll be in eight to ten years.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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That's a great point.
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I I was sort of more going down the line of uh if if God's be you kind of discovered that you started having like a tumor or a growth or something like that, or other health, um, other health complications.
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A tea might be a contraindication, it might be a uh a substance that negatively impacts whatever those complications are further.
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So you might be forced to come off it.
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That that's what I was going.
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But yeah, you're you're you're bang on as well from a kind of an economic perspective, I guess.
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Well, and then it reminds me of uh I'm gonna get a little metal here.
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Uh my wife and I's uh her pregnancy and her birth, we went very, let's say, lo-fi.
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And she did not require the use of an epidural.
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We did a lot of just like I would do with this field.
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I I did a lot of reading, not at the level of a doctor, but very much at the level of a, let's say, more clinical approach.
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If you guys are wanting to know what I read, there's an amazing book that doulas use.
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I can't recall, you know what?
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I'm just gonna look it up, dude.
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Because that book was fucking awesome, and people deserve to know about it.
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Because it was written, one of my frustrations with what I was finding, a lot of it was very surface level, written from the perspective of someone who didn't give a shit, like the dad smoking in the other room kind of thing.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah, yeah.
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So and it was irritating because it wasn't giving me anything I didn't already know.
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Like one of the books I couldn't stand.
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I this one of the few books I've returned, like it pissed me off.
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Like that I took it to the book sucks, was talking about Well, now your life is gonna be different.
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You can't go hanging out with your buddies and going to the club.
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Yeah, no shit, dude.
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Like the book was not for me.
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Oh my bear.
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The birth partner.
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You know what's funny?
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Memory's funny.
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I just remembered.
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I think it's called The Birth Partner.
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Yep.
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Birth Partner.
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Okay, so I I read this book called The Birth Partner, the fifth edition, which is a book meant for doula's.
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So doula is someone who will assist you through your pregnancy.
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They they are an agent for you versus the doctor, who at the end of the day serves a hospital.
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For the doctor, the medical doctor, they're you're it's fucking Tuesday for them.
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And I'm not discounting the amount of the work that they do.
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We used a medical doctor for our pregnancy as kind of a backup because we actually had a miscarriage prior to that.
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So I'm not saying that, well, you know, they're they're too clinical, whatever.
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No, we respect the medicine in the field in that domain, but we needed somebody who had our own best interests in mind.
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And that's why we hired a doula.
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But anyway, this is the same book or manual that they would read.
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And one thing I learned and took away from that book, outside of all the technicals that we're not talking about birthing today, was the notion of medical intervention or clinical intervention.
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When you open that door, the solution, so meaning if I have an epidural, if I'm a woman and I'm gonna have and I'm go, I'm birthing and I ask for epidural, the next stage, if something goes wrong, has to be clinical.
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You can't go backwards.
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You can't be like, I changed my mind, let's go back to doing, I think I can handle the no.
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Like if something goes, they have to so what ends up happening, and they call it a cascade, it keeps going and more clinical and more clinical and more clinical.
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And I'm not, you know, every birth story is different, but we also went to classes to get ready for.
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And afterwards, we all get reconnected and everybody talks about their birth story.
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And there were some really, really, really rough ones.
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And it's because they kind of open that clinical door.
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And when they're talking about their stories, like, oh, then then the doctor had to do this, and then the doctor had to do that.
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So I say all that because it's this is kind of the same, this raises the same question.
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If you start addressing things hormonally through through supplement, no, I shouldn't say supplementation, but you're you're injecting testosterone, not unrelated to what you were talking about, maybe the inverse, Matt, where you have to come off of it.
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Well, you know, now you're not operating normally as against a normative population.
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You are now different.
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So therefore, the solution for whatever ails you may have to be different.
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And and that's you don't have as much control there.
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Yeah.
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Whereas if I told you, hey, you need to get more sleep, you have more control.
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That's kind of what I was gonna I was kind of get at next.
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I I guess in in uh in an attempt to sort of turn the tide on being super negative about like opening about about this.
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I think one thing so I think modern Western healthcare is is phenomenal.
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I think it's some of the some of the procedures and some of the tech and some of the the things that are accessible and available now are absolutely incredible.
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But I think where the strengths really are is like acute traumatic care, like getting shot, getting stabbed, getting hit by a car.
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The life-saving stuff that that medicine can offer now, Western medicine can offer nowadays is insanely cool.
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Where I think we are perhaps less effective is like the kind of the the chronic care.
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Yeah, I agree.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And so I think that that actually is is where policy changes like this, assuming that it's not uh assuming that it's not abused or misinterpreted, I think that's where this kind of stuff could be really useful because it it's potentially like giving warning flags earlier in that pathway so it doesn't become a cute.
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You know, it doesn't become a like this person has to get to hospital right now.
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It becomes a like a course, correct, like you were saying, where you can start talking about lifestyle factors and things like that.
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Because some people TRT is is probably the most appropriate course of action, but you have to make sure that all those kind of lifestyle factors are in check, first of all, I think.
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And and again, that's where there's real potential in this.
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I think.
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Well, you mentioned you mentioned there's an there's a the dean of school of medicine at Stanford says that the US has the best sick care system in the world.
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It doesn't have the best I'm paraphrasing what he's saying.
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It doesn't have the best health care system.
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So you're right.
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This is a step towards health care, not sick care.
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And I yeah, I I'm I'm for this in that what military and first responders have to do to their bodies is not normal.
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You know, you're not supposed to physiologically speaking keep yourself up for more than 24 hours.
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You're not supposed to, you can go without food for 72 hours.
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You know what I mean?
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So like I think these are Yeah.
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So I say that because, well, now you get this baseline assessment before you're theoretically fucked up.
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Now you at least have an idea of where you should be when you're 40, 50, 60.
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So yeah.
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And I I think, Matt, I think people listeners hopefully understand we're not saying, oh, testosterone replacement is a waste of time.
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No, we're just saying, obviously, I think it's a bell curve.
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I live in the real world.
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Some people are gonna abuse it, but it's gonna save some people's lives.
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It's just like Ozempic.
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Like when it first started coming onto the scene in the zenith of the culture and our understanding of it, my the emotional younger part of me was like, nah, fuck that.
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You gotta do it the right way.
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But how many fat asses do we know that aren't gonna change?
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They just aren't.
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And and just walking around, they're gonna be cost the system more, just doing that.
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So in this case, if we can give them a pill to reduce their morbidity, great.
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Fuck it.
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Let's do it.
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It's gonna save lives.
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So I kind of see it the same way here.
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It's gonna save, if it saves one person's life, I mean, that's a good thing.
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And I think it's what my test was supposed to be versus what it is now.
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I don't know.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Well, I was just gonna say, I think I think that's a great kind of comparison.
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I think they probably have to be used in the same kind of light in that they're part of a bigger process.
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I don't think it can be.
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So we're we're very good, again, I think we're very good in the West with like, you have problem X, take pill Y.
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That'll fix you.
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Job done, right now, next patient.
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And I think that that potentially was where we're leaving a lot on the table.
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I think it can be lycosempic and and that that kind of entire family of drugs.
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I think they can massively be abused.
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I think there's something that's gonna and has been shown to cause loads of potential dramas, but I think they could be a really good catalyst to like that person who can't exercise and can't get out to kind of lose weight in perhaps a more organic way, maybe can now start to do stuff.
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But it has to be okay, well, there's a there's an on-ramp planned where we're gonna six months, nine months, eighteen months down the line, we're gonna be phasing you off this, but you have enough momentum where you're now good.
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And we've paid attention to bone density, we've paid attention to kind of maintaining muscle mass.
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And I I think the same thing could be true with the with the test side of things, but not in the same application.
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I don't know that it should be like the first step with a view to come off.
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I but I think it could like, okay, this person's flagged low test, and it's not kind of following something that's obscure something that's kind of uh atypical, they've had a back-to-back deployment or they've had they've been pulling like crazy over time, you know.
00:15:29.279 --> 00:15:53.039
But it starts to it starts to flag, and then that per that person then can go forward for for like further investigation, be it sleep, nutrition, lifestyle, like, but that's effectively then this is such a such a crappy term, I hate it, but it's effectively a force multiplier for those specialists, because that's always been the the kind of the criticism within H2F as far as I've understood it, is that there just isn't enough nutritionists or sports sites or S and C coaches.
00:15:53.440 --> 00:16:00.879
Whereas if you're starting to flag people, that's like instead of okay, well, you've got, I don't know, arbitrary number, 5,000 people to look after.
00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:08.799
Well, actually 364 popped up on the list this month, that's a huge that you can now actually start doing something with that number.
00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:10.639
I uh yeah, I'm I'm excited.
00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:13.600
And then we haven't even talked about research potential.
00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:13.919
Yeah.
00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:20.080
Democratization of the cost of testosterone testing is going to be less now because of this.
00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:20.480
Yeah.
00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:20.879
Yeah, yeah.
00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:35.200
So so you and I, so to put things in perspective, if you've never done this, uh now this I'm sure it's more expensive now in today's economy, but uh I paid around$450 for blood for a complete blood panel focused on performance.
00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:36.639
I can't remember the name of the company.
00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:38.639
I think at the time it was called Wellness RX.
00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:45.039
Uh, and then I went over with a very intelligent primary care who knows what he's talking about when it comes to endocrinology.
00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:47.919
And we went over line by line, like what was going on with my blood.
00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:52.080
And uh that was, dude, that was like in 2000.
00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:55.279
And it's hard for me to like, I don't want to pay for that again.
00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:56.480
I got close enough.
00:16:56.639 --> 00:17:02.879
But if it was like a$20 to$100 test, I I would be, you know, more open to doing it regularly.
00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:04.400
That's a big reason why I don't do it.
00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:09.200
It's like that's a lot of money for something that I'm not even sure how much of a difference it could make.
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:15.440
I I was gonna ask you, what was the kind of like you don't have to kind of get into this too much if you don't want to?
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.240
What was the thing that led you to get in that?
00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:20.319
And then what was the what's of it?
00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:22.640
Again, like cut this if you don't want to talk about it.
00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:24.240
No, no, I do want to talk about it.
00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:26.640
I I talk about it all the time when I'm teaching the guys.
00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:31.839
So, and girls, uh, right around the hours of 3 to 4 p.m., I'm doing everything right.
00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:38.240
I'm eating correctly, to my knowledge, I'm respecting my sleep, I'm getting works workouts in.
00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:42.000
Right around 3 or 4 p.m., I would fucking hit a wall hard.
00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:44.319
And I know I'm not the only person who's feeling like that.
00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:48.799
Now keep in mind, this is like, you know, mid-20s to mid-30s, low 30s.
00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:51.680
So I'm not like And you weren't you learned seven at this point, Jay?
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:52.559
No, no, no.
00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:53.519
This is at Exos.
00:17:53.759 --> 00:17:54.559
I was at Exos.
00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:56.960
And uh I did I didn't understand what was going on.
00:17:57.039 --> 00:18:04.559
So I I decided to do due diligence, particularly with at that time I was working in the Florida facility, which was 95% tactical guys.
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:06.799
So I'm like, maybe I need to get my blood looked at.
00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:08.000
We work with a doctor, Dr.
00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:12.400
LeMay, who's still down there, and he does blood tests for everybody else regularly.
00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:13.119
So I'm like, you know what?
00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:13.440
Fuck it.
00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:14.160
I'm gonna do it too.
00:18:14.319 --> 00:18:19.119
And XOS at that time was offering a very similar blood panel, like it was a benefit.
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:22.000
So I went through them, I got their blood test, and I took it to Dr.
00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:22.720
LeMay.
00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:26.640
And what he saw, if I just looked at it myself, I wouldn't know.
00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:28.240
Like, that's why you go to an expert.
00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:30.000
I wouldn't know what the fuck I was looking at.
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:35.200
And my, I remember cortisol levels were normal, test was normal.
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:36.400
I thought it was test.
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:39.920
Again, another reason why, why I like I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.
00:18:40.000 --> 00:18:41.359
So, so test look normal.
00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:44.079
So if I had looked at that, I would have left would have would have left it at that.
00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:45.440
DHEA was low.
00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:48.079
DHEA, for those listening, is the mother hormone.
00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:53.119
So it's responsible for production of estrogen, I believe cortisol, and testosterone.
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:53.599
And what Dr.
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:59.119
Olame told me was that my body was pulling all the levers it could to keep cortisol where it was.
00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:01.599
And a big and that's why my DHEA was low.
00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:05.200
I know it's not just one thing, but my DHA was pretty low.
00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:06.880
And we started supplementing with that.
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:08.079
And it changed my life.
00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:16.960
So supplementing with vitamin D and DHEA, and within a week or two, like that that fucking hitting the wall at the end of the day, like went away.
00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:18.000
It was fucking weird.
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:18.799
It wasn't weird.
00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:21.519
It was like that's what I was supposed, I knew what I was supposed to be feeling.
00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:25.759
So just really quick, I correct me if I'm wrong.
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:28.480
I think DHEA is still on banned substance list.
00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:39.440
So if you're listening and you're I think it might certainly at home, I think if you if you're listening and you're in a sport where they test and you're thinking, yeah, that's how I feel, I'm gonna do the same thing.
00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:40.559
Double check that.
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:45.119
I haven't touched like world anti-doping stuff in 10 years, probably.
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:46.799
It definitely used to be on the list.
00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:47.599
So check that.
00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:48.160
Sorry, G.
00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:48.720
Thank you.
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:50.880
Yes, yes, that's what worked for me.
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:55.279
And when I'm teaching guys about this, like that's the message I send is like, hey, that's me.
00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:58.000
It would be idiotic for you to assume that's what you're low in.
00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:01.759
Because the other guys, it would be like cortisol would be fucking sky high.
00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:03.279
So the solution for that would be different.
00:20:03.359 --> 00:20:12.000
Like, so so anyway, uh, I do again, it's it was it was it's not financially for me anyway, reasonable to get that every because they want you.
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:17.440
I think if we were to ask Nick Berenger, he would probably say something around like every month to six weeks.
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:18.880
That's a wild money, man.
00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:19.440
For testing.
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:20.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:20.480
Yeah.
00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:25.599
So yeah, especially, especially if the spectrum is so wide, especially if you're testing like everything.
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:26.480
Everything.
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:26.960
Yeah.
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:27.279
Yeah.
00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:41.119
I know we have like a big push in the I assume professional firefighters as well, but like in the volunteer world, because we don't have like medical backup, they try and push you every year to make sure you get like a full panel because of just the the cancer risk nowadays with with stuff.
00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:42.480
Yeah, it's crazy.
00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:43.200
Yeah.
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:48.640
And I think about now I do I remember there's a firefighter who doesn't live very far away from me.
00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:58.559
I just ran into him, and it's frustrating because these guys don't they accept how many of the people do we know that just accept this is the my I have to feel like shit for the rest of my life?
00:20:58.799 --> 00:20:59.599
That's just how it is.
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:00.960
Like, no, you don't.
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:02.559
It drives me crazy too.
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:03.200
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:09.279
And I I think that's so that that is obviously with the the podcast that we're on and the product that we push.
00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:12.000
I think that's like so true in training as well.
00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:19.279
Like if if whatever you're doing is beating you up, if every time you squat, I I was definitely in this camp probably a decade ago.
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:25.519
If every time you back squat, your knees hurt so bad that you can't sit down without wincing, and there's probably something going on there.
00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:28.480
It's probably worth maybe trying to do something a bit different or think about it.
00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:30.720
And it doesn't mean you're wrecked and that you'll never squat again.
00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:32.319
Switch something else in.
00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:37.440
Um, just don't accept that as being the status quo, I guess.
00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:38.240
Acceptance.
00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:42.799
Yeah, there's a the company I served with was over, you know, obviously it's like fuzzy, right?
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:44.640
With people leaving and people coming in.
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:48.319
But let's say around a hundred people, a company sized element in Marine Corps.
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:50.319
I can't tell you how many of them are out of shape.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:51.759
It drives me crazy.
00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:54.480
It's like Like now or when you're now.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:55.039
Now.
00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:55.599
Okay.
00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:56.000
Yeah.
00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:58.960
They've completely fucking which I I get it.
00:21:59.039 --> 00:21:59.759
It's called working out.
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.400
Out.
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:02.160
It's not fucking a great time.
00:22:02.319 --> 00:22:06.000
And I'm not saying working out's going to fix your diet, but goddamn, dude.
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:09.039
Giving me a bad name, you know?
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:10.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:12.559
Well, that I mean, that's I guess this is kind of semantic to it.
00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:19.759
But this is this that's where personally, and I think as a company, we've had a big push towards moving away from working out and moving towards training.
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:21.359
And there has to be a reason for it.
00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:25.039
You know, you have to like there has to be something you're getting after.
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:25.759
It's very hard.
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:34.240
When we work with when we work with people like so guys who are who are just signed up for a s a subscription, they get in touch and ask for like advice for training programs.
00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:35.200
We are all about that.
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:38.640
We'll spend as much time as needed to get you squared away on that stuff.
00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:41.839
But it's really hard when there's no goal, when there's no end state.
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:44.240
And it doesn't have to be that you're going to bud.
00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:49.359
It doesn't have to be that you're running some stupid hundred miler like G would like to do.
00:22:49.599 --> 00:22:54.000
It doesn't have to be at like a specific event or or a competition or anything like that.
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:56.079
But it has you have to have something, I think.
00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.880
I think it's really hard to just both for coach and athlete just to kind of go through the motions.
00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:04.000
I think at some point you're gonna you're gonna find it tough.
00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:14.079
And if you have like a, well, this is my why, even if that's I want to walk my daughter down the aisle or I want to be able to play with my grandkids, or I just like going out with the boys on the mountain bikes.
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:16.480
Whatever that is, finding something is is huge.
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:17.759
Yeah, for me it's that.
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:21.519
So the Grail Race, I've mentioned this before, is a Coca-Dona 250.
00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:27.359
I just found out the entrance fee is like two grand, which is like, am I gonna pay two grand to beat the shit out of myself for a week?
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:28.319
Like, I don't know.
00:23:28.640 --> 00:23:37.039
Yeah, but I'm I'm prepping for that, or at least it's in the ether that that is something I want to do two years away two years from now.
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:42.160
So so therefore all the training kind of reflects in a very strategic way getting ready for that.
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:49.119
You know what's gonna suck though is like if I fucking put in for the lottery, because I'm putting two years, but if if I get it this year, fine.
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:50.400
We'll we'll we'll go for it.
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:51.599
As in 27.
00:23:51.759 --> 00:23:53.759
At 27, there's a chance I don't get it.
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:55.359
So then I gotta do a whole fucking year.
00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:56.640
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:23:56.720 --> 00:23:57.039
Yeah.
00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:02.319
So I also wanted to talk about revisiting, let's go back to let's say testing for hormones.
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:04.720
No one or people are talking about it.
00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:14.559
I'm really interested on the premenopausal and menopausal side, estrogen testing or testing for declination of the reason why, something that people don't appreciate.
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:16.880
Postmenopause, frozen shoulder.
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:25.200
If you have, you know, obviously most most of us have mothers, and you may have seen this happen before where their shoulders just fucking locked up and it's not cooperating.
00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:30.640
And it's there is so much, there's such a dearth of information as far as the function of frozen shoulder.
00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:31.440
How does it work?
00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:34.559
And we just don't understand it, and you have to kind of let it run its course.
00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:38.319
Clearly, it's hormonal hormonal since it happens post-menopause.
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:43.599
And I recently learned that the joints are actually responsible partially for producing estrogen.
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:44.240
Oh no.
00:24:44.480 --> 00:24:45.440
So that can be related.
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:46.160
Can be.
00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:46.799
We don't know.
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:50.319
So that's what's frustrating is like we have to start somewhere.
00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:55.200
And in my mind, this is a good, and then of course, there's people, why aren't they testing for estrogen?
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:56.480
You gotta start somewhere.
00:24:56.720 --> 00:24:58.799
Okay, I I'll fucking take this one.
00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:00.400
This is then this is a win.
00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:03.680
And hopefully over time we'll we'll start getting more blood panel work.
00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:11.680
But there's I mean, how many women are dealing with that post-menopausal in the military or pre-menopausal dealing with bullshit that can be addressed hormonally?
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:13.359
And I I don't fucking know enough about it.
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:15.359
There's just there's just not enough information.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:16.319
It's really interesting.
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:17.279
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:18.240
What are your thoughts on that?
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:19.680
Yeah, I no, I agree.
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:32.400
I think the the gap, and I I don't want to take this in a direction that is completely off where we're going, but I think the gap between research and application is huge, especially with females.
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:39.440
So I think that now it's easier, like we also about kind of using wearables and things like that.
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:48.160
Like now we are starting to collect data, like organically, I guess, rather than it having to be a a kind of uh a study that's commissioned by a lab or a uni.
00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:53.039
Like we're having tons of people, thousands, hundreds and thousands of people collecting their own data.
00:25:53.200 --> 00:26:02.000
Once we can start getting a handle on that and hopefully like closing that that or reducing those question marks on like female performance, I think it's gonna be so exciting.
00:26:02.079 --> 00:26:22.400
Like some of the ultra stuff, like some of the potential there for female performance in in like your kind of your world, like ultra events, that's gonna be a cool, that's gonna be a cool five, ten years seeing what's gonna happen to so like once we know well, we know this kind of training works on six male college guys who work out recreationally.
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:25.680
So we're just gonna apply that same method and hope it works on females.
00:26:25.839 --> 00:26:29.680
Like that's how we that's effectively how we've been working for the last 40, 50 years.
00:26:29.920 --> 00:26:38.720
So once we start getting like more insight, more understanding in how female male physiology is different in terms of response to training and and stress and stuff like that.
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.839
Yeah, I think I think we're gonna see some really interesting stuff in sport.
00:26:42.160 --> 00:26:44.960
Yes, it's it's interest the interesting is the word I would use.
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:57.599
There was a movement there for a little bit, which I feel like if you're a male and not a coach, it probably wasn't in your purview or in your interests, but women need to train differently uh than men, like very differently, and it's just not fucking true.
00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:05.200
I mean, they do, there are certain things, but the amount of let's say difference that they were saying, yeah, I think was overstated.
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:07.920
Uh as far as like train power versus strength.
00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:09.920
Endurance, it's weird.
00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:11.440
That's different.
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:14.960
Yeah, well, I just think we we don't I think we don't really know.
00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:16.799
I think I mean we don't really know for males.
00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:24.240
Like when you when you boil down a lot of the isn't it something like like BFR, like blood flow restriction training, is the thing that has the most research on it.
00:27:24.400 --> 00:27:28.160
And yet that's such a relatively that's such a small part of most people's programs.
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:35.440
Like we just there's so many we don't know because research has has classically been limited to like a lab-based environment.
00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:44.480
And now we're starting to get more like practical application stuff and people who are like a broader spectrum of ability and experience level, we're gonna start to have more of an insight.
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:46.480
Man, I kind of wish we had Nick on.
00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:47.599
Maybe we'll have him back on.
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:53.920
But uh question for you what are the must test blood markers for you, in your opinion?
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:54.640
Like do you want to be?
00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:57.440
Yeah, I'm not I'm not the person to ask for this really.
00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:00.400
I think we don't we don't have the same culture at home.
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:04.000
So before coming to the States, I had never had a blood panel done.
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:07.920
Not even for like dyslipidemia for cholesterol.
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:08.880
What's that, sorry?
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:10.079
For cholesterol?
00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:11.680
Yeah, we don't have anything.
00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:12.319
Oh wow.
00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:14.000
Yeah, I'd never had anything done.
00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:18.559
We are way more, again, socialized medicine, we're way more symptom-driven.
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:23.200
So if you're showing these symptoms, let's go and get blood work rather than the other way around.
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:25.680
So yeah, I'm I'm probably not the person for that.
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:26.880
That's really interesting.
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:39.039
I mean, because how, how now, I don't want to turn this into a socialized healthcare medicine podcast, but I'm just curious, like, statistically speaking, if if if I have high blood pressure, I'm going to die sooner.
00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:40.079
It's just how it is.
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:46.400
So, like, how does the if I if I'm not aware of that, like how do you guys know, like, oh, that you need to be on cholesterol medication?
00:28:46.480 --> 00:28:48.000
Like, how does that, how does that work?
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:57.359
So I think you again, I was a slightly weird case because yeah, I was I was in the forces, so we we have our own kind of medical system.
00:28:57.519 --> 00:29:07.599
I think they do like kind of checkups, maybe at maybe at 30 and 40, something like that, where you're encouraged to go for like like a health, we call it like a health MOT or something, like a health checkup.
00:29:07.759 --> 00:29:13.359
But I yeah, I th I think a great deal of my friends just don't go to the doctors unless their leg's fallen off.
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:15.440
Like if there's nothing wrong, you don't go.
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:18.720
Which is fine, except there's some things, right?
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:18.960
Yeah.
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:28.480
So so that was that was a real kind of like cultural shock for me coming here and used to like, well, you've got to go every year or every six months or whatever it is, even if there's nothing wrong.
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:32.640
Because before that I'd not stepped into a doctor's office for I don't know, a little while.
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:34.079
Because again, it's symptom driven.
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:38.480
If there's something if you're flagging if you're showing symptoms, then you then you go for investigation.
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:41.359
Now clearly there's pros and cons to that that approach.
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:47.839
Yes, you're not risking the over medicalization, but you are risking that the house is burned down by the time you you get the fire guys going.
00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:49.839
Yeah, that's really interesting.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:50.319
Yeah.
00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:53.599
I mean, sick care, well, that's sick that's sick care, isn't it?
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:54.400
Not healthcare.
00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:55.119
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:55.200 --> 00:30:08.400
And and that's like really so that again, this is kind of massively off topic, but like that the NHS is under real strain at the moment, just with like the amount of people that require its care and the funding it gets and things like that.
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:17.359
And really, I think the only way it's gonna survive is is shifting more towards a preventative medicine approach where you're trying to get like ahead of that curve, you're trying to get ahead of that sickness curve.
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:19.680
I guess we would say that though, because that's the world we live in.
00:30:19.839 --> 00:30:22.160
You know, like that that's the world that that you and I operate in.
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:23.119
Yes, absolutely.
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:24.000
Brush your teeth.
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:26.400
You know, you don't want to see the dentist, brush your teeth.
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:26.799
Yeah.
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:27.200
Yeah.
00:30:27.519 --> 00:30:27.920
Interesting.
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:29.839
Okay, so let's talk about.
00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:32.880
Have you had a chance to review the T Sec schedule at all?
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:33.519
I've not.
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:34.160
So perfect.
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:34.960
Let's do this live.
00:30:35.119 --> 00:30:35.599
Okay, great.
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:36.880
So yeah, screw it.
00:30:36.960 --> 00:30:37.519
Yeah, because I don't have the.
00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.279
Again, for listening, G, do you want to as uh as a director?
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:42.960
Do you wanna talk to everyone?
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:44.559
Yeah, heads up, everybody.
00:30:44.720 --> 00:30:51.839
I am now, as of yesterday, the state director for the National Strength and Conditioning Association for Arizona.
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:53.920
So yeah, yay.
00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:56.960
It's pretty cool that like, oh, okay, like you guys respect me.
00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:58.160
All right, cool.
00:30:58.400 --> 00:31:00.480
Yeah, all right, so let's see the schedule.
00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:07.839
So for those of you unaware, uh the NSCA National Strength and Conditioning Association hosts a yearly event called Tactical Annual Training.
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:10.160
That's for Tactical Strength and Conditioning.
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:18.160
It is definitely an event that is more biased towards military first responder communities, so not necessarily practitioners.
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:23.680
Practitioners kind of have to choose between NATCON, a national conference, and uh and this.
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:25.759
For me, this is my bread and butter.
00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:28.799
So T I've gone to TSEC for the past two or three years.
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:31.839
And uh and and it's because of the population.
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:40.240
Like I, to be frank, if you're an MBA coach or M or NFL coach, great, but it's just not gonna get my fucking blood boiling in a good way.
00:31:40.400 --> 00:31:41.839
So anyway, we will be there.
00:31:42.079 --> 00:31:42.720
Matt and I.
00:31:42.880 --> 00:31:43.839
Is Brent going?
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:45.200
I doubt it.
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:45.920
I doubt it.
00:31:46.079 --> 00:31:47.359
Yeah, I doubt it too.
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:48.880
Maybe, but I wouldn't think so.
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:51.359
Yeah, it'd be kind of weird for him to go, but he might go.
00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:56.000
Uh maybe if you guys reach out to him, if you're listening to this and you know him personally, let him know to go.
00:31:56.160 --> 00:31:56.400
All right.
00:31:56.559 --> 00:31:58.160
First thing, first timers orientation.
00:31:58.319 --> 00:31:59.200
No, we're not talking about that.
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:00.400
I can't, I've never done that.
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:01.920
Okay, let's see.
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:03.119
It's a cool event.
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:11.200
If you are, for example, someone like Nolan, you're a firefighter, you're very much interested in human performance, you're trying to elevate your house, so to speak.
00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:16.559
Uh, it's a good event to kind of like connect with other firefighters who have done that or companies that have done that.
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:17.279
So let's see.
00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:18.960
Oh, a workout with Beaver Fit.
00:32:19.039 --> 00:32:19.440
That's cool.
00:32:19.599 --> 00:32:20.400
That's great.
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:22.319
I don't think that's ever been done before.
00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:25.839
Because usually the fucking hotel room uh gym is packed.
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:27.359
I have to do that.
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:31.039
All right, I'm just gonna pick out ones that look interesting to me.
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:32.400
Are you looking at the schedule, Matt?
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:33.759
Uh I'm not, I can pull it in.
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:35.279
Well, wouldn't you know it?
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:36.400
Interesting.
00:32:36.640 --> 00:32:37.839
One of the first talks.
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:41.279
Hormones under fire, nutrition for tactical performance and long-term health.
00:32:41.440 --> 00:32:44.400
Talks about testosterone, cortisol, estrogen, and insulin.
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:45.680
So we will be going to that.
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:48.240
That's by uh Kelsey Bailey, a dietitian.
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:50.400
And I'm gonna try and stay away from the basic stuff.
00:32:50.559 --> 00:32:53.680
That sounds bad, but rethinking the squat for operators.
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:55.519
I feel like we've talked about that, right?
00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:55.920
Yeah.
00:32:56.160 --> 00:32:57.200
Uh yeah, yeah.
00:32:57.440 --> 00:32:57.680
Okay.
00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.880
And I'll edit, and by the way, dude, well, I'll edit all the pauses out.
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:01.759
It won't be a big deal.
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:02.160
Yeah.
00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:03.920
Austin Womack, do you know him?
00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:05.359
That name is very familiar.
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:06.480
Yes, yes.
00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:08.480
I can't I can't picture a face.
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:12.880
But to be honest, I feel like so many of these names nowadays uh people I've seen present.
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:14.880
Yeah, I think so for myself as well.
00:33:14.960 --> 00:33:22.640
So Austin Womack, I believe I've met him, fire exercise physiologist, uh, will be presenting on puritization and suboptimal training.
00:33:22.799 --> 00:33:24.480
Things we've talked about on this podcast.
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:25.039
Weird.
00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:26.319
Almost like we know what we're doing.
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:26.960
Rucking.
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:31.680
I wouldn't get out for Zach Nielsen will be presenting on rucking.
00:33:31.839 --> 00:33:34.480
Improving output while reducing structural cost.
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:35.119
Let's see.
00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:36.480
Or we'll be talking.
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:37.440
I gotta talk to him.
00:33:37.599 --> 00:33:37.759
Yeah.
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:39.839
Yeah, you can't, you can't, if yeah.
00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:45.200
If he's if he's presenting, if he's doing anything, drop it and go to the he's uh yeah, he's a man.
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:46.000
Mental health.
00:33:46.160 --> 00:33:47.839
Brad Hollingsworth is a friend.
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:49.359
I didn't realize he was presenting.
00:33:49.519 --> 00:33:51.920
Mental health first aid, tactical coaching.
00:33:52.000 --> 00:33:53.599
He works a lot with law enforcement.
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:55.440
Uh Ryan Carroll.
00:33:56.559 --> 00:33:57.359
One of the DOGs.
00:33:58.079 --> 00:33:59.599
This is something that we need to talk about, Matt.
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:02.240
And I feel like we need to have someone on the podcast to talk about it.
00:34:02.559 --> 00:34:13.760
But the proliferation of data and data collection within the military first responder circles, how much of it is relevant and how much of it is noise, which is interesting because people were talking about how noisy it was, you know, six to eight years ago.
00:34:13.920 --> 00:34:15.760
And now that conversation is coming up again.
00:34:15.840 --> 00:34:18.400
It's like, why the fuck are we collecting all this data?
00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:19.519
Yeah, wow.
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:24.400
I'm again, I I know I've kind of probably said this on virtually every podcast we've ever recorded.
00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:31.440
I think that's where machine learning and and using those kind of tools, that's gonna change, absolutely change the game on this stuff.
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:32.559
But I won't go into that anymore.
00:34:32.719 --> 00:34:34.159
I do have someone you can speak to about that.
00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:35.840
We can get on if if you're interested for that.
00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:36.800
Absolutely.
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:42.159
What about so there's gonna be a talk on VL2 Max for firefighters?
00:34:42.559 --> 00:34:45.679
So uh as a volunteer firefighter, what kind of testing are you doing?
00:34:46.000 --> 00:34:51.599
Because I know in Tempe, the Tempe fire department has to do like a treadmill test and or it might be a bike test, actually.
00:34:51.679 --> 00:34:55.280
And uh there are some flaws with that for VL2 Max.
00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:57.199
What what are your thoughts as far as that goes?
00:34:57.599 --> 00:35:00.320
So volunteers certainly volunteer in New York.
00:35:00.559 --> 00:35:03.840
Um New York State, we don't fitness test.
00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:14.880
I think there was a move a little while ago to try and bring something like that in, like a kind of a mandatory test, so that you, in theory at least, reduce the risk of someone going man down who's out of shape.
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:18.960
That, as far as I know, like never kind of was stood up.
00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:24.880
Certainly speaking for kind of local companies, I think you'd have a really hard time enforcing that because you just don't have the manpower.
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:27.039
You almost can't afford not to bring people.
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:32.079
Like we'll you'll you'll we're very rural, so this is, I guess again, this is different.
00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:37.760
You'll maybe roll up on a structure fire, something like that, and you might have five, six people during the day.
00:35:37.840 --> 00:35:39.119
That's that's your whole crew.
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:43.760
So you then can't stand at the door and be like, nah, you didn't pass your fitness test, go on, back to the trial.
00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:49.280
You don't like as a chief, I'm not a chief, but uh, if you're in that chief position, I don't think you have that luxury.
00:35:49.440 --> 00:35:55.199
In the same breath, I think just like the test stuff though, probably looking at something like that is a step in the right direction.
00:35:55.360 --> 00:36:01.679
The way you do it though, especially in the volunteer world where people are volunteering their time, there's there's no financial compensation.
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:08.239
I think you have to be careful how you do that, and it has to be education-led rather than like the stick approach.
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:08.639
Right.
00:36:08.719 --> 00:36:10.079
That that's just kind of my perspective.
00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:18.880
I know Nolan has a lot of insight and some some pretty fiery opinions on fitness testing in the in the pro side, in the full-time side.
00:36:18.960 --> 00:36:20.800
So he's definitely a man to ask about that.
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:22.400
I don't want to back on.
00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:29.199
Now, when you're when you're doing your job, I mean, are there people who are clearly not in the same shape as you?
00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:34.000
And then how has that ever like do they ever look at you and be like, oh, I need to be more like him?
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:35.039
Or like, how does that work?
00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:36.639
Because to me, I hear liability.
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:37.360
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:38.960
And that and that's that's kind of the risk.
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:48.719
And I think I think the the killer, I assume this is the same across all firefighters, not just volunteer, is like cardiac event within 24 hours of a shout.
00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:50.960
That's kind of off the chart, high.
00:36:51.119 --> 00:37:00.239
And I think it's it's gonna be sort of dehydration and stuff like that as well, just because you this sounds like a really obvious thing to say, but you sweat a lot and it's not just because you're at a fire, it's like the gear.
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:13.920
And I think not having a not having a sports science culture where I'm sweating, so I need to drink water and electrolytes afterwards to replenish that, like let's crack a cold one because it's a job well done.
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:21.119
We're rural, so I can only speak for for kind of where we are, but it's that culture, not data, sport science.
00:37:22.079 --> 00:37:22.880
Fascinating.
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:31.119
I'm in I'm in kind of reasonable shape, but I'm probably very much in gym shape.
00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:38.480
Here I serve with a ton of country boys who have never been in a gym in their lives, but the stuff they can do is insane.
00:37:38.719 --> 00:37:46.800
Guys in their like 60s, 70s, a couple in their early 80s, who are like physical monsters just because they've that's all they've done all their lives.
00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:56.320
And it's it's those people you you would look at and you would think from a from a classic SNC perspective, at least they need to like cut down on the Big Macs and and get some exercise.
00:37:56.559 --> 00:37:57.840
They're they're not in shape.
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:07.039
But the the work that they can do, and some of that's kind of work ethic, but the physical work they can do just because that they've a life of hauling hay and like looking off power.
00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:10.559
Low intensity over an extended amount of time makes a lot of sense.
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:12.960
Yeah, yeah, like never mess with a farm boy.
00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:14.960
Hey, I've seen it, I've seen it firsthand.
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:15.679
It's pretty wild.
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:16.239
Yeah.
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:35.199
But it's I guess sorry, to kind of get back to your point, I I think that's that's kind of where where we have to be careful in strength conditioning sports science to respect the culture of these organizations and not just kind of coming in with, well, this works in football, this works in wrestling, so this is how we're gonna run it.
00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:38.880
Because I think you'll you're gonna be pissing in the wind for want of a better term.
00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:40.000
Like you're not gonna get traction.
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:42.159
You need to understand the cultural side of things.
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:49.519
Well, to to further that, I mean, you're talking about you're talking about the buy-in piece or yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:38:50.079 --> 00:38:51.440
Adherence piece.
00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:54.400
For me, there's also the risk, the actual risk of injury.
00:38:54.639 --> 00:38:56.159
So I'll tell you a quick story.
00:38:56.320 --> 00:39:04.000
So I'm not gonna name names, but the company I used to work for took over an athlete that I was working with, a tactical guy, a Bubba.
00:39:04.079 --> 00:39:06.559
And the program that he was given was very basic bitch.
00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:07.599
And that's not an insult.
00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:09.119
Like it was vanilla.
00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:10.480
There's nothing wrong with the program.
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:14.000
It was a good program, except, except this is a tactical athlete.
00:39:14.159 --> 00:39:20.480
And I remember when I was told what this guy was doing, and I was no longer working for them, I was like, oh, that guy's gonna get hurt.
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:23.840
It was like something like goblet squats, and that's exactly what happened.
00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:24.639
He got hurt.
00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:26.480
And that's that's talk is cheap.
00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:27.840
It's easy for me to say that.
00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:30.159
If I was coaching him, it wouldn't have happened.
00:39:30.320 --> 00:39:33.599
But we've talked about the injury rates under my care before.
00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:49.119
There's a lot of implicit knowledge that you as a practitioner has that working with military first responders, that if you didn't, if you were coming from sport, these subconscious, unconscious rules that you kind of laid down through experience, you don't have.
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:58.960
And that's another reason it wouldn't, and I'm I'm being very reductive when I say this, it wouldn't work, is because you're applying your experience from sport, which is just fundamentally different.
00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:03.760
Not fundamentally, but there are definitely parallels, but the rules are different.
00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:11.519
When you're, you know, carrying around a fire hose or having to deal with uh a blast don't like fucking brain cancer as a real risk, not a torn ACL.
00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:13.119
The rules are fucking different.
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:14.639
So yeah, yeah.
00:40:14.960 --> 00:40:15.119
Yeah.
00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:19.119
So it's something I I've learned to appreciate about my body of expertise.
00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:27.679
Uh, and I guess another reason why I like TSAC is because all those unspoken rules that are just there that no one has successfully articulated, that's the norm.
00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:31.199
Whereas if I try and take that and apply it to sport, it's not gonna work.
00:40:31.440 --> 00:40:31.679
Yeah.
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:33.519
Yeah, well that that's exactly what I was gonna say.
00:40:33.599 --> 00:40:35.280
That's a huge shout out for TSAC.
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:38.719
That's something that, yeah, again, we we don't really have a TSAC in the UK.
00:40:38.880 --> 00:40:42.960
So our NSCA is that is the UK SCA, UK Strength Edition Association.
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:45.360
And they are, they're great.
00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:51.199
They're much, much younger as a as an organization, as a governing body than the NSCA and do a fantastic job.
00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:59.440
But there isn't, because strength condition tactical strength conditioning is done in-house in the military at home almost exclusively, there isn't that same market yet.
00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:07.519
So I think they're doing a lot of work with those specific organizations, like with the um RAPTC, like the Army physical training corps.
00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:09.199
I think they're doing direct work with them.
00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:10.559
Um and it's it's awesome.
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:12.239
It's look definitely moving in the right direction.
00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:18.800
But I think that's where TSAC and that's sorry, that's where the NSCA and specifically the TSAC arm needs a massive round of applause.
00:41:18.880 --> 00:41:24.000
They've done a really good job of like this isn't just training for football, but you're wearing camis.
00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:26.079
Like they respect that that difference.
00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:26.719
Right.
00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:30.639
They just released the uh second edition of their tactical strength conditioning text.
00:41:30.719 --> 00:41:32.559
So just a shout-out if you're interested in that.
00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:37.920
If you have questions on like education regarding, you can feel free to reach out to Matter myself and we'll be able to share.
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:38.480
Uh, let's see.
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:45.920
Nate Palin and Chris Frankel are presenting on a scientist outcome-oriented interpretation of wow, that's a operator coach and leadership bandages.
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:46.400
That was a lot.
00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:48.559
So what now what regarding data?
00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:49.440
We talked about that.
00:41:49.599 --> 00:41:50.400
That's gonna be cool.
00:41:53.519 --> 00:41:57.760
Marksmanship and skill acquisition, as far as law enforcement goes, I'm really interested in seeing that.
00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:00.079
They call it the biomechanics, but that's what they're talking about.
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:06.719
You put yeah, if you put marksmanship in a presentation, I think you're even if it's TSAC, you're probably gonna scare people off.
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:07.599
Let's see.
00:42:07.760 --> 00:42:09.679
All right, hydration, always.
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:11.039
Megan's teaching that.
00:42:11.199 --> 00:42:12.239
So we'll we'll go see here.
00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:14.159
Drip sponsored by drip drop.
00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:16.320
Dude, how do I get sponsored by drip drop?
00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:19.519
Joe Cruz talking about H2F.
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Dude, Wednesday, day two is fucking huge.
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TBI recovery.
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:29.039
Oh, there's gonna be a lot of see, that's another like TBI recovery in regards to the tactical athlete, it's a little different than football.
00:42:29.599 --> 00:42:30.239
Yeah, yeah.
00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:38.239
Again, like an opportunity to share and and kind of a lot of lessons to be learned, but I think again, it's your application is gonna be be different.
00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:39.440
Yeah, let's see.
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:40.639
Recovery science.
00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:43.440
Wow, I guess the last day is all about recovery.
00:42:43.599 --> 00:42:45.039
Run road rider resistance.
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:48.320
Anyway, uh breath work, Behringer's talking about solidricide.
00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:49.360
I'm really excited to see that.
00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:50.639
Training tactical women.
00:42:50.800 --> 00:42:51.840
All right, interesting.
00:42:52.159 --> 00:42:57.440
So uh it's our intent, Matt and I, to also record at least one episode while we're there.
00:42:57.599 --> 00:42:59.599
Uh hopefully we'll see some of you there.
00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:04.880
I'm not sure who, if any of the listeners, will be there, but it'll be great if uh you do listen to catch up with us.
00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:06.320
We'll be wearing soft leak gear.
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All right.
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:09.280
Matt Mostly because I have all the clothing that I own.
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:10.480
Right?
00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:11.840
That's all I wear, really.
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:12.239
Yeah.
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All right, man.
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:15.280
I feel like we've we've we've hit a lot.
00:43:15.519 --> 00:43:16.880
We've been around the houses, I think.
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Yeah.
00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:17.599
Yeah.
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What are your thoughts?
00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:21.119
So broadly, I think that sorry, mate, you go.
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:21.679
What'd you say?
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Are you getting your tests tested?
00:43:23.280 --> 00:43:24.800
Well, I think I probably need to.
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:25.519
Yeah.
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Yeah.
00:43:26.239 --> 00:43:31.840
Um, I think I think broadly that policy change could be a real good step in the right direction.
00:43:31.920 --> 00:43:36.000
And again, it's kind of recognizing that hopefully this is part of the process.
00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:38.159
This is this is kind of the right trajectory.
00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:39.599
We're not necessarily there yet.
00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:40.960
We're not at the right location yet.
00:43:41.199 --> 00:43:49.039
I think that if you're listening and you're considering TRT, there like that's probably that's probably something to explore.
00:43:49.280 --> 00:43:52.719
But I think make sure all the lifestyle factors are checked first.
00:43:52.960 --> 00:43:53.519
Yeah.
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And you probably want to do that under the the guidance of someone that knows what they're doing and recognises assumes.
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Assuming you're listening to this and you you're in a tactical occupation.
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Someone that understands what that looks like.
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:13.199
Because obviously, like G said, you you're gonna what we do isn't normal, so you can't really kind of use normative data too strictly.
00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:14.880
Where else do we go after that?
00:44:15.119 --> 00:44:15.760
Around the houses.
00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:20.239
Blood block, I think, yeah, has the potential to be awesome, but not don't look at it in isolation.
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:25.679
I think consider symptoms and consider like how how you're feeling on on top of that.
00:44:26.400 --> 00:44:27.679
Yeah, I was gonna mention so Dr.
00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:30.800
LeMay, uh his his practice is called Regenesis Performance.
00:44:30.880 --> 00:44:32.000
He's based in Pensacola.
00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:36.960
Uh, we've definitely reviewed work uh online, and that was several years ago, so I'm sure it's easier now.
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:40.239
I would recommend, I'm not trying to like endorse him.
00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:42.000
I'm just saying that's who I'd use.
00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:47.599
The reason I'm bringing him up, bringing him up is because he works with uh military first responders.
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:48.800
So that's the other thing.
00:44:48.960 --> 00:44:57.599
Like if you're going to there is a men's health clinic that's not far away from me, and it's clear that they're like targeting the alpha male and like that, bro.
00:44:57.920 --> 00:44:59.280
You know, like that kind of vibe.
00:44:59.360 --> 00:45:00.159
Like, that's fine.
00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:01.760
Right, it's my kind of place.
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:02.639
Yeah, right.
00:45:02.719 --> 00:45:04.159
There's nothing wrong with that.
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But I want to go to the person who's working with people who are like me, if that makes sense.
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:12.880
Gee, I don't want to put you on the spot, but this is something I know nothing about.
00:45:13.039 --> 00:45:17.840
Do you know if there's any like nonprofit charities that can help people out with this kind of stuff?
00:45:18.000 --> 00:45:25.679
Like if obviously VA, I'm assuming is a potential, but is there anything else if they've not served in the military or if they have served in the VA is a good thing.
00:45:25.840 --> 00:45:26.719
Oh, that's a great question.
00:45:26.880 --> 00:45:27.679
I am unaware.
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:31.199
I will say, good fucking luck if you're trying to do it through the VA.
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Maybe now, maybe now it'll be different.
00:45:33.599 --> 00:45:35.199
Again, I have no appreciation of this stuff.
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:40.079
So Yeah, I've tried for several years to go through the VA because I have the blood work.
00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:42.400
I have the blood work to show that there was a deficiency.
00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:59.920
And uh, we talked about this before with a different topic, but the amount of pushback I got for just wanting to follow up on my data to see where I was at was uh incalculable to the point where when I said fuck it and I went private and went through my insurance to primary care, I didn't realize how easy it was.
00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:02.000
I was like, hey, I think I need to get my DHA test.
00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:03.039
I was like, oh, sure.
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It was not a fucking like five-minute conversation as to why, why do I need that?
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Would I listen, you know, why do I think I it was an argument and turn into our two two different doctors turned into argument.
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And I stopped going to the VA for years for that.
00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:20.239
So I guess I'm saying that because if you're utilizing the VA, it's gonna be a really you're hitting a wall.
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And if you're frustrated with that, just know that there are other options.
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It might be worth your time to go primary.
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:26.559
I'm not saying bashing the VA.
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It's just they're not equipped to do that.
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:30.800
Going back to Matt, what we were talking about sick care versus healthcare.
00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:32.960
They're they're looking for putting the fires out.
00:46:33.119 --> 00:46:34.239
Yeah, putting fires out.
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And I don't even know what symptoms I would have to, they have the ability, but I don't know what kind of hoops they have to jump through or what I had to say for them to be okay with it.
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:45.440
It was like really frustrating.
00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:50.400
So symptoms for me was fatigue that I was unaccustomed to.
00:46:50.559 --> 00:46:54.559
Now, looking back, here's another big question that I have for myself.
00:46:54.800 --> 00:47:00.960
Knowing what I know now and looking back, particularly after working with Paige, was I not getting enough protein?
00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:02.639
Was it as simple as that?
00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:03.840
I don't know.
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:06.800
I think a huge one in our world is just not enough calories.
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Like, nothing.
00:47:07.519 --> 00:47:11.280
Yeah, sorry, this is like a topic for another conversation, but for another another show.
00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:15.039
I weighed so I weigh I weigh 200 right now, which is too heavy.
00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:17.039
I need to lose about 15 pounds or so.
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But then I was like 175, 180.
00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:22.559
I was really lean and that was not very big.
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:26.159
So so I'm just wondering, like that, that's to your point, Matt.
00:47:26.239 --> 00:47:28.320
I'm wondering about the nutrition aspects.
00:47:28.400 --> 00:47:29.199
What was I missing?
00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:34.800
Especially now having done all the the actual protein I'm supposed to be eating, how hard it is compared to where I was.
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:35.599
Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:47.119
And and again, kind of to I guess to wrap this up, I think that that's where early testing can be really useful because it as long as it's not an instant like, okay, you flag low, you start shots tomorrow.
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:50.400
It's uh okay, well, there's something going on here, let's explore further.
00:47:50.559 --> 00:47:51.599
I that's that's awesome.
00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:59.519
Whether you're doing that through this this new policy or whether you're doing it off your own back or through your own healthcare, I think, yeah, understanding what's going on and why is is time the way to go.
00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:03.519
Oh man, you know, and we're we're coming up on a tail end here, but uh now I have questions on.
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:04.880
So I've seen it.
00:48:05.039 --> 00:48:11.360
I've seen, and I'm sure you have too, this uh push to get people to get full body MRIs.
00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:14.480
No potential brain, yeah, potential brain tumors.
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:16.639
Listen, friends, friends and listeners.
00:48:16.960 --> 00:48:18.480
I don't think it's necessary.
00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:20.880
I think it's a mechanism to sell you shit.
00:48:21.039 --> 00:48:23.679
And I'm not saying don't get an MRI if something isn't wrong.
00:48:23.840 --> 00:48:28.480
I'm just saying like there are other steps to take before you go that far.
00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:36.239
And if I had to pay cash, I just had an MRI done on my head, just my head, eight thousand dollars if if I were to pay cash for that.
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:40.960
So that's a lot of money for, you know, at the end of the day, everything's okay.
00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:51.039
So yeah, I was gonna say from this is kind of again, zero medical licensing or credentials here in the States, but someone who's worked in in rehab, like that's what I did in the in the military.
00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:57.760
I can say from experience, once you see that scan, even if there's nothing even if you're like asymptomatic, once you see that scan, you can't unsee it.
00:48:57.920 --> 00:48:58.320
Ah, that's true.
00:48:58.719 --> 00:48:59.280
Just be aware of that.
00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:01.199
That's opening Pandora's box for sure.
00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:08.639
And as far as disc herniations in the lower back, over 50% of the people in, like, let's say there's 100 people, over 50% have discernations.
00:49:08.719 --> 00:49:09.760
They're just asymptomatic.
00:49:09.840 --> 00:49:11.519
That's that's the fucking reality.
00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:13.039
Are you asymptomatic?
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:15.599
That's what we should be looking at when it comes to herniations.
00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:19.280
You also have to be very careful with, like you said, Matt, like you once you can't unsee it.
00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:21.920
Like Ortho sees that and oh, we got to fix it.
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:24.239
That's his fucking job or her job.
00:49:24.400 --> 00:49:31.599
Like, if you're a if you can solve it kinetically, meaning like in the weight room with nutrition, proper sleep, maybe you should do those before you go.
00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:34.480
I can't tell you how many times it happened.
00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:37.039
Every fucking six months I would work with somebody.
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:41.920
I realized, and I'm quoting, I'm like paraphrasing with the I I think I didn't need that surgery.
00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:44.880
You know, you know how fucking how many times I fucking hear that?
00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:46.719
It drives me crazy drive me crazy.
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:47.760
It's just like it breaks my heart.
00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:48.559
It's like, man, fuck.
00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:50.800
If you came here a year prior, you'd be fine.
00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:52.880
You wouldn't be in the fucking under the fucking blade.
00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:57.280
And it so much of it is because it's just you know, and it's ingrained in our culture.
00:49:57.360 --> 00:49:59.199
Like something's wrong, you go see the doc.
00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:02.719
You know, PT is not heavily weighted, it's not very heavily valued.
00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:04.320
Same thing with strength and conditioning.
00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:07.840
And it's because so many people don't know what the fuck they're doing in the weight room.
00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:09.760
Yeah, oh man, got me amped.
00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:10.400
All right.
00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:12.159
I feel like it's a good place to finish.
00:50:12.239 --> 00:50:13.119
What do you think?
00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:14.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:15.679
Before you start your glass.
00:50:15.840 --> 00:50:16.000
Yeah.
00:50:16.159 --> 00:50:18.880
All right, friends, listeners, you guys have a great one.
00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:20.239
We'll see you on the next one.
00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:21.199
Die living.