WEBVTT
00:00:01.004 --> 00:00:03.383
Welcome back to the Significant Coaching Podcast.
00:00:03.434 --> 00:00:08.773
I'm your host, Matt Rogers, and today we get to celebrate a pretty incredible milestone.
00:00:09.013 --> 00:00:10.743
This is episode 200.
00:00:11.314 --> 00:00:23.524
200 episodes, 200 opportunities to learn, grow, challenge our thinking, and hear from some absolutely fabulous people in coaching, athletics, recruiting, leadership, and education.
00:00:23.833 --> 00:00:26.574
So before we do anything else, I just wanna say thank you.
00:00:27.083 --> 00:00:32.793
Thank you to every guest who has trusted us with their story and shared their experiences and wisdom.
00:00:33.164 --> 00:00:39.454
And a huge thank you to all of you who listen, watch, subscribe, share, and support this show.
00:00:39.654 --> 00:00:45.654
You've helped us build an incredible, significant learning community, and I'm so grateful you're a part of it.
00:00:46.054 --> 00:00:49.993
And if you haven't been here for all 200, you've got some catching up to do.
00:00:50.164 --> 00:00:58.334
You can find every episode at coachmattrogers.com/podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:58.771 --> 00:01:08.748
Now let's celebrate episode 200 by getting back to part two of my conversation with Westminster University head men's basketball coach, Casey Stanley
00:01:09.971 --> 00:01:19.637
Well, Coach, we talked a lot about in episode one, about building that roster let's talk a little bit about what we're recruiting.
00:01:19.686 --> 00:01:29.085
We're hearing so many coaches going,'It's great if they can play defense, but I'm recruiting kids that can score.' And we're hearing coaches talk about positionless basketball.
00:01:29.569 --> 00:01:31.189
What are you looking for?
00:01:31.240 --> 00:01:39.346
Yeah, you know, I, I do kinda like some posi- positionless basketball because at the end of the day, we are, we recruit positional size.
00:01:39.677 --> 00:01:48.250
So I need to have guys who are 6.5, 6'6" who can dribble, pass and shoot a little bit- Yeah um, to make that work.
00:01:48.250 --> 00:01:51.900
I just can't have, like, you know, four or five men out there on the court at one time.
00:01:52.277 --> 00:01:55.903
So I need guys to be able to play multiple spots, multiple roles.
00:01:56.212 --> 00:02:00.572
Um, in the motion we kinda do play a little bit of positionless basketball as well.
00:02:00.572 --> 00:02:12.645
So that's something that's really valuable to me is, is guys w- who are very skilled at all positions, um, you know, can kinda do it all a little bit, and that's something that we've, we've worked on bringing in.
00:02:12.650 --> 00:02:20.485
But obviously that commitment to defense, that's something that's really important because, you know, yeah, we do need to recruit talent and ability on the offensive end.
00:02:20.893 --> 00:02:29.215
If you are totally against the mentality of, of defense first, then it, you're never gonna play here.
00:02:29.215 --> 00:02:31.776
So it's gonna be, it's gonna be a waste roster spot.
00:02:32.063 --> 00:02:37.978
Now, the guys who maybe show that they can pl- do a little bit of both, those are the guys we really want.
00:02:37.989 --> 00:02:50.230
The guys who are talented offensively, uh, but just wanna win and wanna be competitors and if that means, you know, they're playing defense and, and grinding it out and rebounding and that kinda stuff, I think that's something that's really, really valuable.
00:02:51.183 --> 00:02:54.639
Uh, we, we talked about what's kinda changed at the high school levels.
00:02:54.944 --> 00:03:02.997
I, I think one of the things that's changed that I'm seeing is I'm not seeing those teams where there's a kid or two that's saying,"I'm shutting you down."
00:03:03.394 --> 00:03:03.799
Mm-hmm.
00:03:04.942 --> 00:03:06.453
Coach, g- give me, give me him.
00:03:06.778 --> 00:03:13.133
He, I know he scored eight points, get me on him," and that, that desire to go shut somebody down.
00:03:13.378 --> 00:03:14.587
Where did that get lost?
00:03:15.311 --> 00:03:16.762
Yeah, I think- Or am I just seeing things?
00:03:17.093 --> 00:03:32.272
And, and again, I, I feel like, like we're just becoming two old men on this podcast-'cause we're just, we're just talking about the, the, the old days and, you know, I, I think part of it is so many kids put their stock in, in the offensive side of the ball, and that's where they get their attention.
00:03:32.274 --> 00:03:38.742
And, um, non-basketball people can watch a basketball game and tell, oh, this guy put the ball in, in, in the hoop.
00:03:39.102 --> 00:03:42.143
Um, and they're not necessarily looking at the other stuff.
00:03:42.143 --> 00:03:49.252
So they focus so much on scoring, and that's what gets the attention on social media and in newspaper articles afterwards.
00:03:49.252 --> 00:04:01.656
And so, so rarely do they talk about, you know, like,"Hey, this is a guy who guarded the other team's best player," or,"This is a guy who de- did a great job reversing the ball, you know, and, and not letting the ball get stuck.
00:04:01.657 --> 00:04:11.959
Like they, they just get focused on scoring the basketball and that's who gets the names and they put that ahead of necessarily winning the game sometimes and, and contributing to that win
00:04:15.625 --> 00:04:25.266
I, it's, it's amazing when I talk to young basketball players and their parents, and I tell them, I go,"Don't send me film of three cl- three minutes of clips of you scoring the basketball.
00:04:25.699 --> 00:04:25.862
Mm.
00:04:25.887 --> 00:04:31.024
I wanna see three minutes of you playing on the ball, one pass away, two passes away.
00:04:31.242 --> 00:04:32.853
I wanna see you block out strong side.
00:04:32.872 --> 00:04:34.199
I wanna see you block out weak side.
00:04:34.379 --> 00:04:35.468
Show me that.
00:04:35.857 --> 00:04:35.894
Mm.
00:04:35.894 --> 00:04:38.285
And don't show me one clip out of 24 games.
00:04:38.314 --> 00:04:39.072
I wanna see the...
00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:47.418
I wanna be able to show a coach that you do this every single time, or at least you're trying to do this every single time, because that's what you and I are looking for, right?
00:04:47.747 --> 00:04:48.002
No.
00:04:48.019 --> 00:04:48.458
What we watch for.
00:04:48.459 --> 00:04:48.987
100%.
00:04:49.254 --> 00:04:51.458
It's, it's literally 50% of the game.
00:04:51.689 --> 00:04:51.720
That's right.
00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:55.069
Like, people, it, it's literally 50% of the game is defense.
00:04:55.069 --> 00:05:04.622
Like, people think about it as just like,"Hey, I'm gonna have, you know, like, all these offensive skills so I don't have to play defense." Then you're knowingly giving up half of the game.
00:05:05.004 --> 00:05:05.247
Sure.
00:05:05.247 --> 00:05:05.721
So then that's...
00:05:06.007 --> 00:05:07.543
And I don't think kids understand that.
00:05:07.567 --> 00:05:12.062
I know it's like, you know,"Hey, I scored a bunch of points, so I can give up a bunch of points." Why would you wanna do that?
00:05:12.254 --> 00:05:16.653
I'd rather have a guy that scored way less points and then didn't give up anything.
00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:19.353
Well, and if you're an up-tempo coach-
00:05:19.461 --> 00:05:19.658
Mm
00:05:19.660 --> 00:05:29.598
you're pushing the ball in, you're looking to score quickly, and you're, you're looking to really get into your stuff, your transition, and score quickly, it might be 60, 65% of the game is defense.
00:05:29.644 --> 00:05:30.040
Mm-hmm.
00:05:30.086 --> 00:05:30.415
Right?
00:05:30.437 --> 00:05:30.677
It's true.
00:05:30.934 --> 00:05:31.333
It's true.
00:05:31.408 --> 00:05:44.755
So it's- Good point if you can't do it for long periods of time, if you can't get down in the stance and pressure and move for 25, 30 seconds and, and do that possession after possession, the coach might look at another kid.
00:05:45.180 --> 00:05:45.509
Mm-hmm.
00:05:45.742 --> 00:05:45.978
Right?
00:05:45.978 --> 00:05:46.384
No, I...
00:05:46.678 --> 00:05:50.040
We, we sometimes will chart, you know, like, points given up.
00:05:50.276 --> 00:05:55.555
So then you look at every bucket, and you say,"Well, this kid probably got beat, so he ga- he gave up a point.
00:05:55.738 --> 00:06:03.759
But this guy didn't rotate, so he gave up a point." And then when you look at it, did the points that you score outweigh the points that you gave up?
00:06:03.812 --> 00:06:04.091
And I...
00:06:04.113 --> 00:06:05.999
It, it doesn't happen as much as you think.
00:06:05.999 --> 00:06:10.786
It's like- No that's great, you know, he went out and scored 14, but he gave up, you know, 13.
00:06:10.833 --> 00:06:12.158
How much is that really helping us?
00:06:13.329 --> 00:06:16.399
All right, I'm gonna throw a curve- I'm gonna throw a Utah curveball at you Hmm.
00:06:16.764 --> 00:06:18.086
I'm an old Chicago Bulls fan.
00:06:18.235 --> 00:06:18.252
Mm-hmm.
00:06:18.252 --> 00:06:19.502
Long time Chicago Bulls fan.
00:06:20.500 --> 00:06:23.947
And I was so upset when we gave away Lauri Markkanen.
00:06:24.632 --> 00:06:24.978
Mm-hmm.
00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:35.656
Just crushed me,'cause to me, he's the guy you and I have been talking about in terms of that superior length, multiple position, really position-less basketball.
00:06:35.697 --> 00:06:38.406
Could shoot it, can guard multiple positions.
00:06:39.005 --> 00:06:42.617
How is he seen in Utah now that you've been there for a handful of years?
00:06:43.245 --> 00:06:47.980
I actually think what's interesting is this, they're starting to believe here a little bit.
00:06:47.980 --> 00:06:52.923
Like, they've got a good young core that they like here, and they think that they're gonna be good.
00:06:52.923 --> 00:06:58.533
And I, I actually, it's very interesting to see kinda how that is building a little bit over there.
00:06:58.569 --> 00:07:03.223
Um, you know, and obviously, you know, getting Peterson and that, that, that's big for them too.
00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:04.973
But they've got- Right a nice, nice core.
00:07:04.975 --> 00:07:08.865
And actually some of our guys, uh, we had about eight or nine guys work.
00:07:08.894 --> 00:07:13.723
Lauri Markkanen had a camp out here last week, um, for a youth camp and, and they thought it was so fun.
00:07:13.750 --> 00:07:16.055
This is, I thought this was really interesting for a camp.
00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:20.504
He had them work and they liked it, and he was there, and he was very hands-on.
00:07:20.841 --> 00:07:22.074
There were no games.
00:07:22.107 --> 00:07:23.442
It was all skill work.
00:07:24.165 --> 00:07:27.377
And that was all it was, was skill work the whole time.
00:07:27.391 --> 00:07:27.401
You
00:07:27.401 --> 00:07:28.829
may not get a lot of kids to come back, but
00:07:28.831 --> 00:07:29.487
I love it.
00:07:29.487 --> 00:07:29.874
Exactly.
00:07:29.874 --> 00:07:35.548
Like, like they just, just working on, you know, and, and just kinda the ability to dribble, pass, and shoot- Yeah all positions.
00:07:35.550 --> 00:07:40.201
And you know, obviously, you know, they're not, like, working on kids just in the low block and all that stuff.
00:07:40.230 --> 00:07:42.175
It's like no, you gotta be able to do it all.
00:07:42.175 --> 00:07:45.310
And it was basically like a, a three-hour skill session.
00:07:45.398 --> 00:07:47.278
It's, uh, it's a great idea for a camp.
00:07:47.581 --> 00:07:48.211
I love it.
00:07:48.278 --> 00:07:49.100
I love it.
00:07:49.687 --> 00:07:53.971
Um, I'm gonna go back to what you talked about in episode one.
00:07:53.973 --> 00:07:55.733
You got all these great freshmen on your roster.
00:07:58.177 --> 00:08:00.449
Let's, let's talk to parents a little bit.
00:08:00.449 --> 00:08:19.555
Let's talk to kids Should kids be focused more on the lower levels, even if they've got D1 ability, for that development, for that culture, for that learning, for that opportunity to maybe be on the court a little sooner?
00:08:19.853 --> 00:08:34.437
What's your, what's your advice to families on how to look at the division range, and maybe how to project yourself out to maybe be becoming a big time Division 1 player at some point, that maybe you're not ready for yet?
00:08:34.889 --> 00:08:35.975
No, 100%.
00:08:36.716 --> 00:08:37.024
There's...
00:08:37.048 --> 00:08:46.572
We're recruiting a kid right now, and there's some Division 1 interest, and it's like fighting against the idea of should I wait late, maybe Division 1 comes to me.
00:08:46.589 --> 00:08:48.322
But it's like that...
00:08:48.730 --> 00:08:51.043
He is such a confident player.
00:08:51.044 --> 00:08:55.535
He has such a high level of mojo about him, and I talked about it a little bit.
00:08:55.572 --> 00:09:14.056
You know, I said,"You know, sometimes a kid can be broken a little bit in that year or two of not playing, and they lose their confidence." And it's like to me, the biggest thing this kid needs to do is get a little bit, um, stronger, get a little bit better, get a little bit like defensively hone in, but he's a Division 1 level player.
00:09:14.428 --> 00:09:24.201
But if he goes there and he doesn't get a role right away, and he's 15th on the roster, and he's losing some of that confidence a little bit, is that really what's gonna be good for his game ultimately?
00:09:24.477 --> 00:09:31.931
As opposed to having an upward trajectory with your career, now you're going downward a little bit, and you might lose a little bit of who you are.
00:09:32.216 --> 00:09:33.306
Um, to...
00:09:33.350 --> 00:09:47.009
And, you know, the, the other part to this that some families don't understand, and I'm, I, I'm dealing with it too, is like, okay, in NIL situations, right, a lot of these D1s, they're giving out their NIL to eight, nine, 10 guys.
00:09:47.307 --> 00:09:53.633
So although you might have a scholarship, if you're not getting NIL, that's showing where you fit in the roster.
00:09:53.636 --> 00:09:53.860
That's right.
00:09:53.860 --> 00:10:08.176
And if they're, if they're out there paying a point guard, you know, and you're not getting a big financial offer yourself, are, can you really beat that guy out, or are they gonna give that guy every single opportunity'cause they've already pumped money into him, you know?
00:10:08.177 --> 00:10:22.033
And it's, it's now there are differing degrees where in essence some of these kids now are considered walk-ons within the program, but they're ju- they're just getting a scholarship, and that's something that I think is, is changed in the last year or two.
00:10:22.033 --> 00:10:31.298
And maybe some of the, the, the, um, the AU coaches or the high school coaches who aren't necessarily as tied in are, you know,"Hey, yeah, you gotta go Division 1.
00:10:31.298 --> 00:10:41.701
You get that opportunity to go to Division 1." When in reality, playing 25 to 30 minutes a game might be more beneficial for certain kids than, you know, kinda being a, a, a practice player.
00:10:43.086 --> 00:10:46.400
Well, the thing, I don't think these AU coaches and the parents understand.
00:10:46.937 --> 00:10:53.535
Okay, it used to be maybe if that kid that's getting the NIL money, that point guard we were talking about, maybe he's getting a million dollars a year.
00:10:53.845 --> 00:11:05.476
The mindset is,"Well, he's gonna go in the NBA draft, or by year two he's gonna be gone, and then those minutes are mine." Well, that money that they're giving him is gonna come right back to them, and now they're gonna go give it to another five-star point guard.
00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:06.164
Mm-hmm.
00:11:06.591 --> 00:11:06.890
Right?
00:11:06.913 --> 00:11:13.316
Or, or, or here's the other thing I'll give you, and we're talking a million dollars, so you're talking at the high major- Yeah or mid-major plus level.
00:11:13.496 --> 00:11:15.254
It's like now let me give you another one.
00:11:15.254 --> 00:11:18.880
Let me give you a low major, and they're giving you 30,000.
00:11:19.203 --> 00:11:19.486
That's right.
00:11:19.500 --> 00:11:26.365
And like 30,000 at a low major, uh, school is, is probably even more so valuable than a million at a high major school.
00:11:26.485 --> 00:11:26.855
You know?
00:11:26.855 --> 00:11:32.351
Like- Right like if, if, if a low major school is giving you$30,000, I know what their budget looks like, you know?
00:11:32.352 --> 00:11:35.736
That, then they're, that is a huge commitment that they've now given you.
00:11:36.054 --> 00:11:36.587
That's right.
00:11:36.958 --> 00:11:45.289
Well, and, and my mindset is if I've got a son who's 16 years old, I want him to go play for you if he's got Division I ability'cause I know you're gonna coach him up.
00:11:45.688 --> 00:11:46.038
Mm-hmm.
00:11:46.164 --> 00:11:47.090
He's gonna be disciplined.
00:11:47.091 --> 00:11:48.604
He's gonna be able to play defense.
00:11:49.149 --> 00:11:50.809
He's gonna know how to play in a system.
00:11:51.328 --> 00:11:52.966
He's gonna know how to play with others.
00:11:53.289 --> 00:11:54.711
He's gonna know how to communicate.
00:11:55.336 --> 00:11:58.080
He's gonna know how to handle the classroom and the community.
00:11:58.730 --> 00:12:15.585
And, and if he's really as good as we think he is, now those Division Is, when he's led you to the Final Four, and, you know, you've got back-to-back 25-win seasons, and he's been a star, all, all-American, now those Division Is are fighting for him.
00:12:16.081 --> 00:12:16.470
Mm-hmm.
00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:23.557
Money-wise, talent-wise, he's got options, and when he steps on that floor at the Division I level, he's so much ready to play.
00:12:23.898 --> 00:12:25.192
And now all of a sudden...
00:12:26.083 --> 00:12:28.043
And this is what we gotta understand, moms and dads.
00:12:28.775 --> 00:12:30.528
There's only 60 guys drafted every year.
00:12:31.202 --> 00:12:31.517
Mm-hmm.
00:12:32.448 --> 00:12:35.600
40% of them are gonna come international now, if not more.
00:12:35.620 --> 00:12:35.796
Mm-hmm.
00:12:36.736 --> 00:12:44.726
And, and, and the ones that are getting recruited out of, out of the United States, or getting drafted out of the United States, they're freaks.
00:12:45.395 --> 00:12:47.581
Literally freakish athletes.
00:12:48.173 --> 00:13:04.244
So if you want that opportunity to continue to play after 22, 23, and you wanna go overseas and play some professional ball and get paid, there's no better route than to start lower and dominate at your level, and stay there, or have the chance to jump up after you've got the experience.
00:13:04.245 --> 00:13:04.884
Tell me I'm wrong.
00:13:05.256 --> 00:13:05.600
No.
00:13:05.749 --> 00:13:20.345
And here's the other point to this too, which I'm not sure if families or coaches are understanding is, maybe 10 years ago, right, the, the track would be, all right, you don't have the D1s you want, go to junior college- Right and then you'll be able to, in a year or two, transfer up.
00:13:20.793 --> 00:13:48.645
But now, because you can go from D2 to D1 without sitting out, more kids, more of the talent are going to D2 because now they are showcasing themselves against juniors and seniors, as opposed to kids who just went to junior college who are playing kids their own age, because more Division I coaches are looking what my roster's doing than are looking at what a high level junior college roster is, is doing, because they're doing that against 18 and 19-year-olds.
00:13:48.913 --> 00:13:52.163
Kids in my league are doing that against 21, 22, and 23-year-olds.
00:13:52.341 --> 00:13:52.774
That's right.
00:13:53.038 --> 00:13:55.350
Huge, huge difference.
00:13:55.660 --> 00:13:55.964
Mm-hmm.
00:13:56.671 --> 00:14:01.374
Um, all right, Coach, I'm gonna put you in a time machine here.
00:14:02.918 --> 00:14:09.621
What does the, that typical Westminster men's basketball player look like in three to four years?
00:14:09.621 --> 00:14:15.129
And I'm not, I'm not talking about, you know, their color and their religion and their, n- not even necessarily their size.
00:14:16.283 --> 00:14:21.566
But what's that prototype Westminster kid look like in terms of their character, their work ethic?
00:14:21.995 --> 00:14:27.693
Um, what, you know, by that point you're gonna be able to get some of those kids that maybe you can't get today.
00:14:28.173 --> 00:14:30.019
What does that l- what's that kid look like?
00:14:31.077 --> 00:14:39.455
High academic kid who is really k- interested in presenting himself as a professional in everything he does.
00:14:39.788 --> 00:14:45.073
Um, a high achieving person who is successful, um, in the classroom.
00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:49.147
Off the court he's making a, a, a commercial of himself every day.
00:14:49.431 --> 00:14:51.673
Um, and then obviously on the court he's succeeding.
00:14:52.004 --> 00:15:00.575
Um, a guy who's working and wants to be part of a comprehensive program that's gonna make you better on and off the court.
00:15:00.955 --> 00:15:05.240
Um, guys who are committed to winning, who think about winning first.
00:15:05.524 --> 00:15:09.873
Um, willing to play whatever role it takes in order to impact winning.
00:15:10.246 --> 00:15:24.462
Um, and guys who want to, on the basketball side of it, come here to improve and not even, uh, be recognizable from what they were by the time they got here, um, in terms of what their bodies look like, um, in terms of what their skill looks like.
00:15:24.663 --> 00:15:30.113
Uh, all that stuff is, is, is something that, that, that we're really valuing when we're evaluating kids.
00:15:30.811 --> 00:15:31.234
Love it.
00:15:31.523 --> 00:15:32.104
I love it.
00:15:33.711 --> 00:15:35.268
I'm gonna be the old man on the porch again.
00:15:35.349 --> 00:15:36.251
You don't have to be.
00:15:38.404 --> 00:15:42.407
But I, I, I, this is typically where the podcast goes, me being the old man yelling.
00:15:42.839 --> 00:15:58.754
Um- If I'm a single guy, and I've been married for 30 years, so this is hard for me to relate to, but if I'm a single guy, I'm not posting on Instagram every date I go on with me and a picture of her- Mm the girl I went out with, especially if I'm gonna go out with multiple girls-
00:15:59.068 --> 00:15:59.346
Mm-hmm
00:15:59.375 --> 00:16:00.397
for the next couple weeks.
00:16:01.304 --> 00:16:05.951
If I get a job offer and I'm not sure I'm gonna take it, I'm not posting that job offer, Coach-
00:16:06.357 --> 00:16:06.504
Mm
00:16:06.509 --> 00:16:07.458
until I commit.
00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:12.174
And then maybe I'm gonna put on LinkedIn that I am the new this, this at this job.
00:16:12.722 --> 00:16:13.014
Mm-hmm.
00:16:13.859 --> 00:16:22.063
Why in God's name are kids posting offers before they commit or visits in, in another school's uniform?
00:16:22.384 --> 00:16:26.649
Why, why did that become a thing, and why does that make any sense?
00:16:26.649 --> 00:16:27.561
Help me out here.
00:16:28.307 --> 00:16:34.552
Do you want, do you want the actual answer- as someone who's especially s- just coming from a, a, a prep school situation?
00:16:34.595 --> 00:16:34.904
Yes.
00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:37.063
I wanna understand why it's happening.
00:16:37.063 --> 00:16:37.073
Okay.
00:16:37.153 --> 00:16:42.802
Cause that, that will e- encourage other people, other schools to reach out.
00:16:43.250 --> 00:16:43.605
Okay.
00:16:43.605 --> 00:16:44.485
That's, that's all it is.
00:16:44.515 --> 00:16:52.378
It's 100% a cry for more schools, for more attention, for more people, positively or negatively.
00:16:52.541 --> 00:17:05.888
Maybe you don't like the recruitment that you have, but if all of a sudden you see a team in your league offering somebody and you go,"Okay, you know, either, A, I thought his recruitment would've been a lot higher, maybe his recruitment is, is coming back down.
00:17:05.896 --> 00:17:18.309
Now maybe I can call on this kid," or, or, B, it's just, you know,"Hey, that school typically does a really good job evaluating sc- uh, kids, and if he's good enough for them, maybe he's good enough for us." Yeah, give it a shot.
00:17:18.654 --> 00:17:18.987
Yeah.
00:17:18.987 --> 00:17:18.999
Okay.
00:17:19.217 --> 00:17:30.500
So that is, that is 100%, uh, for other people to, to, to notice or think about recruiting them or consider them more
00:18:10.923 --> 00:18:12.259
Now be the dad.
00:18:12.798 --> 00:18:13.834
Is this healthy?
00:18:13.985 --> 00:18:20.088
Is this a healthy way to go about it from a coach, parent, athlete perspective?
00:18:21.526 --> 00:18:23.457
And again, I'll, I'll, I'll accept whatever you say.
00:18:23.630 --> 00:18:24.410
I, I just...
00:18:24.429 --> 00:18:25.567
I'm having a hard time.
00:18:26.004 --> 00:18:37.996
I, I hear what you're saying, and I love that, that that's, that's there for the kids, and I love that coaches are paying attention to it, but it's still, it doesn't feel right to me that I just went and had a great experience with you.
00:18:37.996 --> 00:18:42.870
You offered me, I posted it, but I have no interest going to Westminster.
00:18:43.353 --> 00:18:43.549
None.
00:18:43.551 --> 00:18:43.742
Sure.
00:18:44.431 --> 00:18:44.807
Sure.
00:18:45.305 --> 00:18:45.775
It is, it is
00:18:45.822 --> 00:18:47.434
a game- What does that say about my integrity?
00:18:48.062 --> 00:18:48.446
It is...
00:18:48.464 --> 00:18:58.796
It, no, 100%, it i- it, it is a game, and it's, you know, it's like, uh, they're openly sometimes recruiting other schools to hit them up.
00:18:58.798 --> 00:19:03.611
And, and, and, and you understand that sometimes as a coach, and you understand- Yeah the game that's being played.
00:19:03.611 --> 00:19:08.559
And, you know, the, the ones that, that I, I, I'll be less cynical.
00:19:08.779 --> 00:19:19.462
There'll be some that are doing it because they want their friends to see how cool this is that they're getting something, and now their buddies are reaching out to them, and that's part of it as well, right?
00:19:19.472 --> 00:19:26.339
That's the, the less cynical version of y- he, they're doing it so their friend can say,"Hey, man, that's great," and they feel really good about themselves.
00:19:26.719 --> 00:19:26.906
Yeah.
00:19:26.931 --> 00:19:34.621
But I, I think at least 50%, if not more, are doing it strictly to gain, to garner other schools' attention.
00:19:34.992 --> 00:19:35.368
Okay.
00:19:36.446 --> 00:19:43.019
I'm, I'm, I'm curious to see what that percentage, that is what their thought process is or that's their explanation.
00:19:43.185 --> 00:19:43.732
Mm-hmm.
00:19:43.844 --> 00:19:44.472
You know what I mean?
00:19:45.601 --> 00:19:46.482
Yeah, I don't know.
00:19:46.482 --> 00:19:49.553
I, I, I think somebody is telling them to post it.
00:19:49.889 --> 00:19:50.086
Yeah.
00:19:50.087 --> 00:19:50.311
Right?
00:19:50.337 --> 00:19:57.535
And they also see, hey, you know, like my friend who was recruited two years ago, he was posting it, so that's what you do.
00:19:57.813 --> 00:20:04.723
It's just become a social norm and expectation, um, you know, where that kind of stuff starts to happen a little bit.
00:20:06.138 --> 00:20:09.378
Do you want kids to post that they've got an offer from you?
00:20:10.582 --> 00:20:26.981
You know, I, I actually don't mind it as much because- Part of taking over at Westminster has been repairing relationships with local Utah high school, uh, kids, their parents.
00:20:27.456 --> 00:20:29.372
Part of it is free marketing in a way.
00:20:29.487 --> 00:20:29.631
Yeah.
00:20:29.655 --> 00:20:41.615
Where part of it, it's like, oh, this good player posted he got an offer from Westminster, so now in two years when it's time for me to be recruited, that's more of a viable option.
00:20:41.862 --> 00:20:43.164
Like, they know it exists.
00:20:43.164 --> 00:20:51.044
It's, it's marking our territory sometimes as like, hey, this, this is what we prioritize, local high school Utah kids.
00:20:51.286 --> 00:20:54.003
Um, you know, so I don't mind it as much.
00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:55.972
Um, I, I've got no problem with it.
00:20:56.373 --> 00:21:06.013
And I'm, and I'm confident in my program and in what we can offer kids and families and in our school that, you know, I'm not worried about it drawing more people in.
00:21:06.141 --> 00:21:06.495
You know?
00:21:06.495 --> 00:21:06.505
Yeah.
00:21:06.505 --> 00:21:14.858
I just, you know, at the end of the day, you know, I think it's, uh, something that the kid is proud of, and you, you feel a certain bit of pride that you can, you can offer that situation for them.
00:21:15.505 --> 00:21:16.233
I love that.
00:21:16.296 --> 00:21:28.111
That perspective really helps me, because if I'm a high school coach, and maybe the coaches in the past there haven't done a good job of recruiting locally, or I've been disappointed that they haven't come see my kids or taken...
00:21:28.471 --> 00:21:30.774
And I see that you're actively doing that.
00:21:31.915 --> 00:21:38.485
I don't know if that's the way I wanna see it, but the fact that you are doing it, it makes me feel good that you're, y- you're looking- Look- at our local kids.
00:21:38.485 --> 00:21:40.837
You're, you're g- you're addressing that.
00:21:41.144 --> 00:21:41.492
Yeah.
00:21:41.505 --> 00:21:48.728
So part, part of this is, um, my staff and I, um, pretty much every day each go to about a workout or two.
00:21:49.058 --> 00:21:49.180
Nice.
00:21:49.180 --> 00:21:57.075
An open gym or two, um, in the area, and it's like realistically, we just brought in 11 freshmen and a whole bunch of kids.
00:21:57.089 --> 00:22:00.878
You know, I don't know what our'27 class is gonna look like.
00:22:01.146 --> 00:22:01.296
Uh-huh.
00:22:01.296 --> 00:22:02.778
How many kids we're really gonna need.
00:22:03.048 --> 00:22:16.604
Um, but at the end of the day, it's more like seeing the younger kids and letting the younger kids see you, and okay, Westminster exists, and seeing those coaches and, you know, kinda getting your name out there.
00:22:16.686 --> 00:22:29.956
And look, like, you know, not to think, not that I'm just thinking about this from a school perspective, but some of those kids in that open gym might be a, uh, uh, not a basketball player, somebody who might just want to attend Westminster as a regular student.
00:22:30.409 --> 00:22:30.623
Love it.
00:22:30.623 --> 00:22:32.283
And they're seeing it, they're seeing you.
00:22:32.284 --> 00:22:34.294
It's like you're a, you're a billboard out there.
00:22:34.805 --> 00:22:35.109
Yeah, yeah.
00:22:35.496 --> 00:22:38.102
I get to b- I could, maybe I could be a rock star there too.
00:22:38.169 --> 00:22:39.387
Mm-hmm, exactly.
00:22:39.567 --> 00:22:47.820
All right, Coach, that's why I do this podcast,'cause I, I come in with a ton of ignorance, and smart coaches like you bring me around, so I appreciate that.
00:22:48.131 --> 00:22:48.929
I needed that.
00:22:49.332 --> 00:22:56.402
All right, Coach, let's, let's finish with your wisdom I'm a, I'm a 16-year-old.
00:22:56.413 --> 00:22:58.012
I wanna play college basketball.
00:22:59.017 --> 00:23:03.158
How do I reach out to you to get your attention, and do you want me to reach out to you?
00:23:03.526 --> 00:23:04.490
Yeah, of course.
00:23:04.553 --> 00:23:14.954
I, uh, I always like new names and new, new, new directions to go to, so my email, uh, is on the website, uh, on Westminster website.
00:23:14.955 --> 00:23:15.487
It's, it's...
00:23:15.510 --> 00:23:19.982
I'll just tell it now, but it's cstanley@westminsteru.edu.
00:23:19.982 --> 00:23:20.399
Um-
00:23:20.399 --> 00:23:22.680
Well, I'm glad you give the right one to other people.
00:23:22.822 --> 00:23:22.994
Yes.
00:23:23.550 --> 00:23:24.229
I mean, you don't- I, I did.
00:23:24.229 --> 00:23:25.312
That's right, I did give you the...
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:26.492
I forgot the U.
00:23:26.820 --> 00:23:27.466
I always forget the U.
00:23:27.466 --> 00:23:27.527
I thought you
00:23:27.529 --> 00:23:29.058
were trying to ghost me, Coach.
00:23:29.083 --> 00:23:29.443
Yeah.
00:23:29.482 --> 00:23:30.968
I al- I always forget the U.
00:23:30.971 --> 00:23:32.745
I appreciate you sliding in my DMs, though.
00:23:32.747 --> 00:23:33.471
That, that helps.
00:23:33.913 --> 00:23:38.651
Um, but, uh, no, the, uh- I'm just teasing But no, that, that's...
00:23:38.694 --> 00:23:42.038
I, I, I don't mind kids'cause I know how ha- how difficult it is.
00:23:42.040 --> 00:23:50.057
I just came from that space where- Oh you know, these kids are so hungry to be recruited, and nobody's listening to them, nobody's hearing them out, so I, I love...
00:23:50.058 --> 00:23:52.389
And I, I don't always do a great job of responding.
00:23:52.403 --> 00:23:55.986
There's usually a day where I'll catch up on 10, 11, 12 emails.
00:23:55.988 --> 00:24:00.598
But, um, I'm always watching or sending them to my staff to evaluate you as a player.
00:24:00.907 --> 00:24:03.322
Um, you know, I think social media's a great...
00:24:03.357 --> 00:24:11.075
I mean, I, I think we're, we're pretty active on Instagram and, and Twitter as well and just trying to reach out to kids and see, see what else is out there.
00:24:11.126 --> 00:24:17.886
Um, but- Right I'm, I'm always looking for new names and new, new, new people, um, you know, to, to, to look at for the future.
00:24:18.371 --> 00:24:20.757
Is there something that catches your eye?
00:24:20.983 --> 00:24:33.961
And, and I know this is hard when you're getting so many emails and, and so many social media messages as you are, but is there stuff that catches your eye that you're like,"All right, I'm gonna open this email," you know,"I've got a couple minutes," or,"I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a look at this kid's film on Instagram"?
00:24:34.298 --> 00:24:35.779
I, I will, I will tell you this.
00:24:35.799 --> 00:24:38.832
I would not say there's anything in particular that, that I...
00:24:38.870 --> 00:24:39.701
Well, do you know what?
00:24:39.761 --> 00:24:41.384
High GPA, right?
00:24:41.564 --> 00:24:41.841
Right.
00:24:41.865 --> 00:24:42.381
That, that...
00:24:42.613 --> 00:24:52.519
And then honestly, some people think that's lip service, but, like, legitimately, I don't know if I'm only gonna bring in freshmen going forward, but what I will tell you is I'm only gonna bring in high GPAs.
00:24:52.788 --> 00:24:52.934
Yeah.
00:24:52.934 --> 00:25:05.142
So if you've got your honest GPA, I've had some kids mislead me about their GPAs, if you have your honest GPA on your social media, um, there's a good chance that I will look at that quicker than most.
00:25:05.215 --> 00:25:05.391
So- Do
00:25:05.391 --> 00:25:06.712
you want cumulative or weighted?
00:25:07.048 --> 00:25:08.500
Uh, cumulative is great.
00:25:08.838 --> 00:25:08.985
Okay.
00:25:08.985 --> 00:25:09.552
That works for me.
00:25:09.996 --> 00:25:19.304
Um- Uh- But that, that, if, if I see a kid with, like, a 3.9, 4.0, 3.8 GPA, I'm clicking on that thing right away.
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:30.175
That's the only thing that'll get you moved higher to the front of my box, because I am not gonna take anyone, to be honest with you, probably below a 3.4, 3.5 while I'm here
00:25:31.765 --> 00:25:34.713
Tell these families why that's so important.
00:25:34.713 --> 00:25:36.687
It's not just getting in the door at Westminster.
00:25:36.687 --> 00:25:41.458
What does that do for you from a scholarship perspective, a stackings perspective?
00:25:41.637 --> 00:25:42.397
Yeah, 100%.
00:25:42.620 --> 00:25:44.783
So the most...
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:57.116
The higher your GPA is, the higher academic money you're awarded from the school, and that means the less a- athletic money I have to give you to get you to where you need to go to attend my school.
00:25:57.277 --> 00:26:03.587
So that's the higher GPAs, uh, are something that I, I wanna prioritize that.
00:26:03.613 --> 00:26:07.481
I wanna have a team full of, of, of high GPA guys.
00:26:07.511 --> 00:26:20.428
Now, now on more of a basketball standpoint, the higher GPA you are, the higher achieving human you typically are, the more responsible you typically are, the more committed to a task you typically are.
00:26:20.723 --> 00:26:25.199
Um, so that means you would fit in well in a basketball perspective.
00:26:25.667 --> 00:26:34.310
Westminster is also a very high academic school, and guys who succeed typically come in with high GPAs and have shown that they can do that work.
00:26:34.310 --> 00:26:49.745
And the, the less conversations I have to have about doing the simple things like doing your homework and writing your papers and being prepared for tests, the more I can talk about basketball, which at the end of the day, that is what our program is.
00:26:49.806 --> 00:26:53.675
We are probably the most, uh, Division One, Division Two in the country.
00:26:53.958 --> 00:26:58.471
Um, everything we do is high basketball.
00:26:59.038 --> 00:27:02.930
If you do not love the game, we're probably not a great fit for you.
00:27:03.261 --> 00:27:05.257
Um, I'm gonna coach you hard.
00:27:05.300 --> 00:27:11.853
I'm gonna put high expectations on you, but if, if you love the game, there's no better place to go than Westminster.
00:27:12.733 --> 00:27:16.096
And student athletes, there's a recurring theme here with Coach Stanley.
00:27:16.571 --> 00:27:29.748
He wants to see on your film that you can do everything, and if you can defend and you can rebound and you can run the floor, and you can make the extra pass and swing the ball, and you're a great teammate, it's a heck of a lot easier to recruit you because those are all things he doesn't have to teach you.
00:27:30.082 --> 00:27:39.635
If you're a high academic kid, and you know how to study and how to learn, and you know how to excel in the classroom, that's something he doesn't have to worry about teaching you when you get there.
00:27:39.637 --> 00:27:41.028
So I love that, Coach.
00:27:41.347 --> 00:27:47.744
Anybody that's read my book, Significant Recruiting, we call that the Merc- Mercedes for the cost of a Toyota philosophy.
00:27:47.966 --> 00:27:47.979
Mm-hmm.
00:27:47.979 --> 00:27:48.298
Right?
00:27:48.298 --> 00:27:48.357
I
00:27:48.358 --> 00:27:48.625
get.
00:27:48.745 --> 00:27:56.597
I get, I get a high achiever for very, very cheap,'cause my school's gonna give you academic money, and I don't have to pay full price for you, right?
00:27:56.778 --> 00:27:57.149
Right.
00:27:57.288 --> 00:27:57.869
I love it.
00:27:58.237 --> 00:27:58.655
Love it.
00:27:59.012 --> 00:27:59.359
All right.
00:27:59.754 --> 00:28:02.573
Give some advice to parents going through this journey with their kids.
00:28:03.667 --> 00:28:08.103
The, the one thing I can tell you is do not panic, right?
00:28:08.113 --> 00:28:08.131
Mm-hmm.
00:28:08.140 --> 00:28:09.003
There are so many...
00:28:09.275 --> 00:28:09.555
There's...
00:28:09.594 --> 00:28:15.340
And, and, and it's, it's the landscape of recruiting has changed so drastically in the last five years.
00:28:15.730 --> 00:28:28.026
Um, and, and desperation on your part, the kids can certainly feel that a little bit, and I know most of the time you're just wanting, uh, their dream for them so bad.
00:28:28.036 --> 00:28:29.132
You wanna see them succeed.
00:28:29.133 --> 00:28:30.311
I'm a parent myself.
00:28:30.551 --> 00:28:37.938
I, I want my daughter to be h- happy more so than anything on this planet, so I understand why you feel that pressure.
00:28:38.346 --> 00:28:44.005
But at the end of the day, if, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be, and it might look a little different.
00:28:44.005 --> 00:28:47.597
The path might be a little bit different than it was five, 10 years ago.
00:28:47.850 --> 00:28:56.568
But if your kid is committed to succeeding in the classroom, succeeding on the court, being a great person, everything will work out in, at the end for them.
00:28:57.638 --> 00:28:58.112
That's awesome.
00:28:58.404 --> 00:28:59.161
Great advice.
00:28:59.471 --> 00:29:00.648
Last piece of advice.
00:29:00.698 --> 00:29:07.206
High school coaches, club coaches, prep school coaches, number one, how do you want them to build a relationship with you?
00:29:08.078 --> 00:29:12.608
And number two, what advice should they be giving their, their athletes that wanna play in college?
00:29:12.650 --> 00:29:15.116
And what, maybe what should they be doing for them and with them?
00:29:15.473 --> 00:29:15.879
Yeah.
00:29:16.002 --> 00:29:19.202
So it is, and this is actually an interesting question.
00:29:19.202 --> 00:29:23.432
Number one, I think I'm, I'm extremely, um, uh...
00:29:23.432 --> 00:29:25.146
You could contact me in many ways.
00:29:25.146 --> 00:29:26.721
I'm very much out there on Instagram.
00:29:26.721 --> 00:29:28.042
I'm very much out there on Twitter.
00:29:28.292 --> 00:29:29.151
I'm very much...
00:29:29.152 --> 00:29:31.125
My email is posted everywhere.
00:29:31.356 --> 00:29:39.322
Like, I, I am all over the place, so if you want to find me, there are millions of ways to contact me, get in that relationship.
00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:47.155
I would say the biggest thing, if you wanna help your athletes get recruited, is put, put them out there to college coaches.
00:29:47.471 --> 00:29:48.577
Reach out to them.
00:29:48.745 --> 00:29:49.564
Email them.
00:29:49.836 --> 00:29:50.560
Text them.
00:29:50.575 --> 00:29:51.750
Give them information.
00:29:51.972 --> 00:30:08.252
Have a good open gym schedule where it's like,"Hey, this is when we're going." And, and be very, um, easily workable in that situation,'cause there's so many, there's so many situations where, where coaches go,"Oh, I want my kid recruited," but then they don't go out and work in the process at all.
00:30:08.688 --> 00:30:08.769
Right.
00:30:08.783 --> 00:30:10.519
That's a, that's a big part of that, too.
00:30:10.806 --> 00:30:18.281
Um, I think the, the biggest thing is, is, is what, what everybody needs to tell these high school kids is the same thing I just told their parents.
00:30:18.471 --> 00:30:19.131
Calm down.
00:30:19.211 --> 00:30:19.761
Relax.
00:30:19.762 --> 00:30:20.579
Don't press.
00:30:20.976 --> 00:30:30.846
Um, because that's the hardest thing, is sometimes these high school kids think,"Hey, I gotta go out now and score 40, because I'm not getting recruited," when that's just a, a small part of the game.
00:30:31.125 --> 00:30:36.282
Um, and I think, I think that's harder for these kids to realize, and, and it's...
00:30:36.509 --> 00:30:40.221
Panicking is, is no way to go through your senior year of, of high school.
00:30:40.681 --> 00:30:41.164
I agree.
00:30:43.211 --> 00:30:47.769
Coach, uh, I can't tell you how lucky Westminster is to have you.
00:30:47.817 --> 00:30:50.050
Um, I'm so glad you have each other.
00:30:50.421 --> 00:30:50.715
Thank you.
00:30:50.778 --> 00:30:58.966
And for all you presidents out there, I consult with athletic departments all over the country, college and university presidents, this is what you're looking for when you're interviewing.
00:30:59.008 --> 00:31:01.041
This is the answers you're looking for.
00:31:01.229 --> 00:31:02.599
This is the character you're looking for.
00:31:02.600 --> 00:31:04.163
This is the integrity you're looking for.
00:31:04.347 --> 00:31:06.808
So Coach, thank you so much for your authenticity.
00:31:07.060 --> 00:31:08.820
Thank you so much for your passion.
00:31:09.105 --> 00:31:11.356
I've loved getting to know you and talking to you.
00:31:11.618 --> 00:31:15.947
You got such a big fan in me, and I know great things are coming.
00:31:15.980 --> 00:31:16.798
Thanks for doing this.
00:31:17.182 --> 00:31:17.628
Great, man.
00:31:17.632 --> 00:31:18.306
Thanks for having me
00:31:19.495 --> 00:31:29.815
And that's a wrap on part two of my conversation with Westminster University head men's basketball coach, Casey Stanley, and episode 200 of the Significant Coaching Podcast.
00:31:30.055 --> 00:31:36.035
A huge thank you to Casey and to every guest and every one of you who has helped us get to 200 episodes.
00:31:36.205 --> 00:31:38.425
I can't wait to see where we go from here.
00:31:38.645 --> 00:31:46.655
You can find all 200 episodes at coachmattrogers.com/podcast or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
00:31:46.885 --> 00:31:52.655
Until next time, control what you can control, be humble, and keep chasing significance
00:00:01.004 --> 00:00:03.383
Welcome back to the Significant Coaching Podcast.
00:00:03.434 --> 00:00:08.773
I'm your host, Matt Rogers, and today we get to celebrate a pretty incredible milestone.
00:00:09.013 --> 00:00:10.743
This is episode 200.
00:00:11.314 --> 00:00:23.524
200 episodes, 200 opportunities to learn, grow, challenge our thinking, and hear from some absolutely fabulous people in coaching, athletics, recruiting, leadership, and education.
00:00:23.833 --> 00:00:26.574
So before we do anything else, I just wanna say thank you.
00:00:27.083 --> 00:00:32.793
Thank you to every guest who has trusted us with their story and shared their experiences and wisdom.
00:00:33.164 --> 00:00:39.454
And a huge thank you to all of you who listen, watch, subscribe, share, and support this show.
00:00:39.654 --> 00:00:45.654
You've helped us build an incredible, significant learning community, and I'm so grateful you're a part of it.
00:00:46.054 --> 00:00:49.993
And if you haven't been here for all 200, you've got some catching up to do.
00:00:50.164 --> 00:00:58.334
You can find every episode at coachmattrogers.com/podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:58.771 --> 00:01:08.748
Now let's celebrate episode 200 by getting back to part two of my conversation with Westminster University head men's basketball coach, Casey Stanley
00:01:09.971 --> 00:01:19.637
Well, Coach, we talked a lot about in episode one, about building that roster let's talk a little bit about what we're recruiting.
00:01:19.686 --> 00:01:29.085
We're hearing so many coaches going,'It's great if they can play defense, but I'm recruiting kids that can score.' And we're hearing coaches talk about positionless basketball.
00:01:29.569 --> 00:01:31.189
What are you looking for?
00:01:31.240 --> 00:01:39.346
Yeah, you know, I, I do kinda like some posi- positionless basketball because at the end of the day, we are, we recruit positional size.
00:01:39.677 --> 00:01:48.250
So I need to have guys who are 6.5, 6'6" who can dribble, pass and shoot a little bit- Yeah um, to make that work.
00:01:48.250 --> 00:01:51.900
I just can't have, like, you know, four or five men out there on the court at one time.
00:01:52.277 --> 00:01:55.903
So I need guys to be able to play multiple spots, multiple roles.
00:01:56.212 --> 00:02:00.572
Um, in the motion we kinda do play a little bit of positionless basketball as well.
00:02:00.572 --> 00:02:12.645
So that's something that's really valuable to me is, is guys w- who are very skilled at all positions, um, you know, can kinda do it all a little bit, and that's something that we've, we've worked on bringing in.
00:02:12.650 --> 00:02:20.485
But obviously that commitment to defense, that's something that's really important because, you know, yeah, we do need to recruit talent and ability on the offensive end.
00:02:20.893 --> 00:02:29.215
If you are totally against the mentality of, of defense first, then it, you're never gonna play here.
00:02:29.215 --> 00:02:31.776
So it's gonna be, it's gonna be a waste roster spot.
00:02:32.063 --> 00:02:37.978
Now, the guys who maybe show that they can pl- do a little bit of both, those are the guys we really want.
00:02:37.989 --> 00:02:50.230
The guys who are talented offensively, uh, but just wanna win and wanna be competitors and if that means, you know, they're playing defense and, and grinding it out and rebounding and that kinda stuff, I think that's something that's really, really valuable.
00:02:51.183 --> 00:02:54.639
Uh, we, we talked about what's kinda changed at the high school levels.
00:02:54.944 --> 00:03:02.997
I, I think one of the things that's changed that I'm seeing is I'm not seeing those teams where there's a kid or two that's saying,"I'm shutting you down."
00:03:03.394 --> 00:03:03.799
Mm-hmm.
00:03:04.942 --> 00:03:06.453
Coach, g- give me, give me him.
00:03:06.778 --> 00:03:13.133
He, I know he scored eight points, get me on him," and that, that desire to go shut somebody down.
00:03:13.378 --> 00:03:14.587
Where did that get lost?
00:03:15.311 --> 00:03:16.762
Yeah, I think- Or am I just seeing things?
00:03:17.093 --> 00:03:32.272
And, and again, I, I feel like, like we're just becoming two old men on this podcast-'cause we're just, we're just talking about the, the, the old days and, you know, I, I think part of it is so many kids put their stock in, in the offensive side of the ball, and that's where they get their attention.
00:03:32.274 --> 00:03:38.742
And, um, non-basketball people can watch a basketball game and tell, oh, this guy put the ball in, in, in the hoop.
00:03:39.102 --> 00:03:42.143
Um, and they're not necessarily looking at the other stuff.
00:03:42.143 --> 00:03:49.252
So they focus so much on scoring, and that's what gets the attention on social media and in newspaper articles afterwards.
00:03:49.252 --> 00:04:01.656
And so, so rarely do they talk about, you know, like,"Hey, this is a guy who guarded the other team's best player," or,"This is a guy who de- did a great job reversing the ball, you know, and, and not letting the ball get stuck.
00:04:01.657 --> 00:04:11.959
Like they, they just get focused on scoring the basketball and that's who gets the names and they put that ahead of necessarily winning the game sometimes and, and contributing to that win
00:04:15.625 --> 00:04:25.266
I, it's, it's amazing when I talk to young basketball players and their parents, and I tell them, I go,"Don't send me film of three cl- three minutes of clips of you scoring the basketball.
00:04:25.699 --> 00:04:25.862
Mm.
00:04:25.887 --> 00:04:31.024
I wanna see three minutes of you playing on the ball, one pass away, two passes away.
00:04:31.242 --> 00:04:32.853
I wanna see you block out strong side.
00:04:32.872 --> 00:04:34.199
I wanna see you block out weak side.
00:04:34.379 --> 00:04:35.468
Show me that.
00:04:35.857 --> 00:04:35.894
Mm.
00:04:35.894 --> 00:04:38.285
And don't show me one clip out of 24 games.
00:04:38.314 --> 00:04:39.072
I wanna see the...
00:04:39.279 --> 00:04:47.418
I wanna be able to show a coach that you do this every single time, or at least you're trying to do this every single time, because that's what you and I are looking for, right?
00:04:47.747 --> 00:04:48.002
No.
00:04:48.019 --> 00:04:48.458
What we watch for.
00:04:48.459 --> 00:04:48.987
100%.
00:04:49.254 --> 00:04:51.458
It's, it's literally 50% of the game.
00:04:51.689 --> 00:04:51.720
That's right.
00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:55.069
Like, people, it, it's literally 50% of the game is defense.
00:04:55.069 --> 00:05:04.622
Like, people think about it as just like,"Hey, I'm gonna have, you know, like, all these offensive skills so I don't have to play defense." Then you're knowingly giving up half of the game.
00:05:05.004 --> 00:05:05.247
Sure.
00:05:05.247 --> 00:05:05.721
So then that's...
00:05:06.007 --> 00:05:07.543
And I don't think kids understand that.
00:05:07.567 --> 00:05:12.062
I know it's like, you know,"Hey, I scored a bunch of points, so I can give up a bunch of points." Why would you wanna do that?
00:05:12.254 --> 00:05:16.653
I'd rather have a guy that scored way less points and then didn't give up anything.
00:05:17.600 --> 00:05:19.353
Well, and if you're an up-tempo coach-
00:05:19.461 --> 00:05:19.658
Mm
00:05:19.660 --> 00:05:29.598
you're pushing the ball in, you're looking to score quickly, and you're, you're looking to really get into your stuff, your transition, and score quickly, it might be 60, 65% of the game is defense.
00:05:29.644 --> 00:05:30.040
Mm-hmm.
00:05:30.086 --> 00:05:30.415
Right?
00:05:30.437 --> 00:05:30.677
It's true.
00:05:30.934 --> 00:05:31.333
It's true.
00:05:31.408 --> 00:05:44.755
So it's- Good point if you can't do it for long periods of time, if you can't get down in the stance and pressure and move for 25, 30 seconds and, and do that possession after possession, the coach might look at another kid.
00:05:45.180 --> 00:05:45.509
Mm-hmm.
00:05:45.742 --> 00:05:45.978
Right?
00:05:45.978 --> 00:05:46.384
No, I...
00:05:46.678 --> 00:05:50.040
We, we sometimes will chart, you know, like, points given up.
00:05:50.276 --> 00:05:55.555
So then you look at every bucket, and you say,"Well, this kid probably got beat, so he ga- he gave up a point.
00:05:55.738 --> 00:06:03.759
But this guy didn't rotate, so he gave up a point." And then when you look at it, did the points that you score outweigh the points that you gave up?
00:06:03.812 --> 00:06:04.091
And I...
00:06:04.113 --> 00:06:05.999
It, it doesn't happen as much as you think.
00:06:05.999 --> 00:06:10.786
It's like- No that's great, you know, he went out and scored 14, but he gave up, you know, 13.
00:06:10.833 --> 00:06:12.158
How much is that really helping us?
00:06:13.329 --> 00:06:16.399
All right, I'm gonna throw a curve- I'm gonna throw a Utah curveball at you Hmm.
00:06:16.764 --> 00:06:18.086
I'm an old Chicago Bulls fan.
00:06:18.235 --> 00:06:18.252
Mm-hmm.
00:06:18.252 --> 00:06:19.502
Long time Chicago Bulls fan.
00:06:20.500 --> 00:06:23.947
And I was so upset when we gave away Lauri Markkanen.
00:06:24.632 --> 00:06:24.978
Mm-hmm.
00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:35.656
Just crushed me,'cause to me, he's the guy you and I have been talking about in terms of that superior length, multiple position, really position-less basketball.
00:06:35.697 --> 00:06:38.406
Could shoot it, can guard multiple positions.
00:06:39.005 --> 00:06:42.617
How is he seen in Utah now that you've been there for a handful of years?
00:06:43.245 --> 00:06:47.980
I actually think what's interesting is this, they're starting to believe here a little bit.
00:06:47.980 --> 00:06:52.923
Like, they've got a good young core that they like here, and they think that they're gonna be good.
00:06:52.923 --> 00:06:58.533
And I, I actually, it's very interesting to see kinda how that is building a little bit over there.
00:06:58.569 --> 00:07:03.223
Um, you know, and obviously, you know, getting Peterson and that, that, that's big for them too.
00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:04.973
But they've got- Right a nice, nice core.
00:07:04.975 --> 00:07:08.865
And actually some of our guys, uh, we had about eight or nine guys work.
00:07:08.894 --> 00:07:13.723
Lauri Markkanen had a camp out here last week, um, for a youth camp and, and they thought it was so fun.
00:07:13.750 --> 00:07:16.055
This is, I thought this was really interesting for a camp.
00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:20.504
He had them work and they liked it, and he was there, and he was very hands-on.
00:07:20.841 --> 00:07:22.074
There were no games.
00:07:22.107 --> 00:07:23.442
It was all skill work.
00:07:24.165 --> 00:07:27.377
And that was all it was, was skill work the whole time.
00:07:27.391 --> 00:07:27.401
You
00:07:27.401 --> 00:07:28.829
may not get a lot of kids to come back, but
00:07:28.831 --> 00:07:29.487
I love it.
00:07:29.487 --> 00:07:29.874
Exactly.
00:07:29.874 --> 00:07:35.548
Like, like they just, just working on, you know, and, and just kinda the ability to dribble, pass, and shoot- Yeah all positions.
00:07:35.550 --> 00:07:40.201
And you know, obviously, you know, they're not, like, working on kids just in the low block and all that stuff.
00:07:40.230 --> 00:07:42.175
It's like no, you gotta be able to do it all.
00:07:42.175 --> 00:07:45.310
And it was basically like a, a three-hour skill session.
00:07:45.398 --> 00:07:47.278
It's, uh, it's a great idea for a camp.
00:07:47.581 --> 00:07:48.211
I love it.
00:07:48.278 --> 00:07:49.100
I love it.
00:07:49.687 --> 00:07:53.971
Um, I'm gonna go back to what you talked about in episode one.
00:07:53.973 --> 00:07:55.733
You got all these great freshmen on your roster.
00:07:58.177 --> 00:08:00.449
Let's, let's talk to parents a little bit.
00:08:00.449 --> 00:08:19.555
Let's talk to kids Should kids be focused more on the lower levels, even if they've got D1 ability, for that development, for that culture, for that learning, for that opportunity to maybe be on the court a little sooner?
00:08:19.853 --> 00:08:34.437
What's your, what's your advice to families on how to look at the division range, and maybe how to project yourself out to maybe be becoming a big time Division 1 player at some point, that maybe you're not ready for yet?
00:08:34.889 --> 00:08:35.975
No, 100%.
00:08:36.716 --> 00:08:37.024
There's...
00:08:37.048 --> 00:08:46.572
We're recruiting a kid right now, and there's some Division 1 interest, and it's like fighting against the idea of should I wait late, maybe Division 1 comes to me.
00:08:46.589 --> 00:08:48.322
But it's like that...
00:08:48.730 --> 00:08:51.043
He is such a confident player.
00:08:51.044 --> 00:08:55.535
He has such a high level of mojo about him, and I talked about it a little bit.
00:08:55.572 --> 00:09:14.056
You know, I said,"You know, sometimes a kid can be broken a little bit in that year or two of not playing, and they lose their confidence." And it's like to me, the biggest thing this kid needs to do is get a little bit, um, stronger, get a little bit better, get a little bit like defensively hone in, but he's a Division 1 level player.
00:09:14.428 --> 00:09:24.201
But if he goes there and he doesn't get a role right away, and he's 15th on the roster, and he's losing some of that confidence a little bit, is that really what's gonna be good for his game ultimately?
00:09:24.477 --> 00:09:31.931
As opposed to having an upward trajectory with your career, now you're going downward a little bit, and you might lose a little bit of who you are.
00:09:32.216 --> 00:09:33.306
Um, to...
00:09:33.350 --> 00:09:47.009
And, you know, the, the other part to this that some families don't understand, and I'm, I, I'm dealing with it too, is like, okay, in NIL situations, right, a lot of these D1s, they're giving out their NIL to eight, nine, 10 guys.
00:09:47.307 --> 00:09:53.633
So although you might have a scholarship, if you're not getting NIL, that's showing where you fit in the roster.
00:09:53.636 --> 00:09:53.860
That's right.
00:09:53.860 --> 00:10:08.176
And if they're, if they're out there paying a point guard, you know, and you're not getting a big financial offer yourself, are, can you really beat that guy out, or are they gonna give that guy every single opportunity'cause they've already pumped money into him, you know?
00:10:08.177 --> 00:10:22.033
And it's, it's now there are differing degrees where in essence some of these kids now are considered walk-ons within the program, but they're ju- they're just getting a scholarship, and that's something that I think is, is changed in the last year or two.
00:10:22.033 --> 00:10:31.298
And maybe some of the, the, the, um, the AU coaches or the high school coaches who aren't necessarily as tied in are, you know,"Hey, yeah, you gotta go Division 1.
00:10:31.298 --> 00:10:41.701
You get that opportunity to go to Division 1." When in reality, playing 25 to 30 minutes a game might be more beneficial for certain kids than, you know, kinda being a, a, a practice player.
00:10:43.086 --> 00:10:46.400
Well, the thing, I don't think these AU coaches and the parents understand.
00:10:46.937 --> 00:10:53.535
Okay, it used to be maybe if that kid that's getting the NIL money, that point guard we were talking about, maybe he's getting a million dollars a year.
00:10:53.845 --> 00:11:05.476
The mindset is,"Well, he's gonna go in the NBA draft, or by year two he's gonna be gone, and then those minutes are mine." Well, that money that they're giving him is gonna come right back to them, and now they're gonna go give it to another five-star point guard.
00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:06.164
Mm-hmm.
00:11:06.591 --> 00:11:06.890
Right?
00:11:06.913 --> 00:11:13.316
Or, or, or here's the other thing I'll give you, and we're talking a million dollars, so you're talking at the high major- Yeah or mid-major plus level.
00:11:13.496 --> 00:11:15.254
It's like now let me give you another one.
00:11:15.254 --> 00:11:18.880
Let me give you a low major, and they're giving you 30,000.
00:11:19.203 --> 00:11:19.486
That's right.
00:11:19.500 --> 00:11:26.365
And like 30,000 at a low major, uh, school is, is probably even more so valuable than a million at a high major school.
00:11:26.485 --> 00:11:26.855
You know?
00:11:26.855 --> 00:11:32.351
Like- Right like if, if, if a low major school is giving you$30,000, I know what their budget looks like, you know?
00:11:32.352 --> 00:11:35.736
That, then they're, that is a huge commitment that they've now given you.
00:11:36.054 --> 00:11:36.587
That's right.
00:11:36.958 --> 00:11:45.289
Well, and, and my mindset is if I've got a son who's 16 years old, I want him to go play for you if he's got Division I ability'cause I know you're gonna coach him up.
00:11:45.688 --> 00:11:46.038
Mm-hmm.
00:11:46.164 --> 00:11:47.090
He's gonna be disciplined.
00:11:47.091 --> 00:11:48.604
He's gonna be able to play defense.
00:11:49.149 --> 00:11:50.809
He's gonna know how to play in a system.
00:11:51.328 --> 00:11:52.966
He's gonna know how to play with others.
00:11:53.289 --> 00:11:54.711
He's gonna know how to communicate.
00:11:55.336 --> 00:11:58.080
He's gonna know how to handle the classroom and the community.
00:11:58.730 --> 00:12:15.585
And, and if he's really as good as we think he is, now those Division Is, when he's led you to the Final Four, and, you know, you've got back-to-back 25-win seasons, and he's been a star, all, all-American, now those Division Is are fighting for him.
00:12:16.081 --> 00:12:16.470
Mm-hmm.
00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:23.557
Money-wise, talent-wise, he's got options, and when he steps on that floor at the Division I level, he's so much ready to play.
00:12:23.898 --> 00:12:25.192
And now all of a sudden...
00:12:26.083 --> 00:12:28.043
And this is what we gotta understand, moms and dads.
00:12:28.775 --> 00:12:30.528
There's only 60 guys drafted every year.
00:12:31.202 --> 00:12:31.517
Mm-hmm.
00:12:32.448 --> 00:12:35.600
40% of them are gonna come international now, if not more.
00:12:35.620 --> 00:12:35.796
Mm-hmm.
00:12:36.736 --> 00:12:44.726
And, and, and the ones that are getting recruited out of, out of the United States, or getting drafted out of the United States, they're freaks.
00:12:45.395 --> 00:12:47.581
Literally freakish athletes.
00:12:48.173 --> 00:13:04.244
So if you want that opportunity to continue to play after 22, 23, and you wanna go overseas and play some professional ball and get paid, there's no better route than to start lower and dominate at your level, and stay there, or have the chance to jump up after you've got the experience.
00:13:04.245 --> 00:13:04.884
Tell me I'm wrong.
00:13:05.256 --> 00:13:05.600
No.
00:13:05.749 --> 00:13:20.345
And here's the other point to this too, which I'm not sure if families or coaches are understanding is, maybe 10 years ago, right, the, the track would be, all right, you don't have the D1s you want, go to junior college- Right and then you'll be able to, in a year or two, transfer up.
00:13:20.793 --> 00:13:48.645
But now, because you can go from D2 to D1 without sitting out, more kids, more of the talent are going to D2 because now they are showcasing themselves against juniors and seniors, as opposed to kids who just went to junior college who are playing kids their own age, because more Division I coaches are looking what my roster's doing than are looking at what a high level junior college roster is, is doing, because they're doing that against 18 and 19-year-olds.
00:13:48.913 --> 00:13:52.163
Kids in my league are doing that against 21, 22, and 23-year-olds.
00:13:52.341 --> 00:13:52.774
That's right.
00:13:53.038 --> 00:13:55.350
Huge, huge difference.
00:13:55.660 --> 00:13:55.964
Mm-hmm.
00:13:56.671 --> 00:14:01.374
Um, all right, Coach, I'm gonna put you in a time machine here.
00:14:02.918 --> 00:14:09.621
What does the, that typical Westminster men's basketball player look like in three to four years?
00:14:09.621 --> 00:14:15.129
And I'm not, I'm not talking about, you know, their color and their religion and their, n- not even necessarily their size.
00:14:16.283 --> 00:14:21.566
But what's that prototype Westminster kid look like in terms of their character, their work ethic?
00:14:21.995 --> 00:14:27.693
Um, what, you know, by that point you're gonna be able to get some of those kids that maybe you can't get today.
00:14:28.173 --> 00:14:30.019
What does that l- what's that kid look like?
00:14:31.077 --> 00:14:39.455
High academic kid who is really k- interested in presenting himself as a professional in everything he does.
00:14:39.788 --> 00:14:45.073
Um, a high achieving person who is successful, um, in the classroom.
00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:49.147
Off the court he's making a, a, a commercial of himself every day.
00:14:49.431 --> 00:14:51.673
Um, and then obviously on the court he's succeeding.
00:14:52.004 --> 00:15:00.575
Um, a guy who's working and wants to be part of a comprehensive program that's gonna make you better on and off the court.
00:15:00.955 --> 00:15:05.240
Um, guys who are committed to winning, who think about winning first.
00:15:05.524 --> 00:15:09.873
Um, willing to play whatever role it takes in order to impact winning.
00:15:10.246 --> 00:15:24.462
Um, and guys who want to, on the basketball side of it, come here to improve and not even, uh, be recognizable from what they were by the time they got here, um, in terms of what their bodies look like, um, in terms of what their skill looks like.
00:15:24.663 --> 00:15:30.113
Uh, all that stuff is, is, is something that, that, that we're really valuing when we're evaluating kids.
00:15:30.811 --> 00:15:31.234
Love it.
00:15:31.523 --> 00:15:32.104
I love it.
00:15:33.711 --> 00:15:35.268
I'm gonna be the old man on the porch again.
00:15:35.349 --> 00:15:36.251
You don't have to be.
00:15:38.404 --> 00:15:42.407
But I, I, I, this is typically where the podcast goes, me being the old man yelling.
00:15:42.839 --> 00:15:58.754
Um- If I'm a single guy, and I've been married for 30 years, so this is hard for me to relate to, but if I'm a single guy, I'm not posting on Instagram every date I go on with me and a picture of her- Mm the girl I went out with, especially if I'm gonna go out with multiple girls-
00:15:59.068 --> 00:15:59.346
Mm-hmm
00:15:59.375 --> 00:16:00.397
for the next couple weeks.
00:16:01.304 --> 00:16:05.951
If I get a job offer and I'm not sure I'm gonna take it, I'm not posting that job offer, Coach-
00:16:06.357 --> 00:16:06.504
Mm
00:16:06.509 --> 00:16:07.458
until I commit.
00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:12.174
And then maybe I'm gonna put on LinkedIn that I am the new this, this at this job.
00:16:12.722 --> 00:16:13.014
Mm-hmm.
00:16:13.859 --> 00:16:22.063
Why in God's name are kids posting offers before they commit or visits in, in another school's uniform?
00:16:22.384 --> 00:16:26.649
Why, why did that become a thing, and why does that make any sense?
00:16:26.649 --> 00:16:27.561
Help me out here.
00:16:28.307 --> 00:16:34.552
Do you want, do you want the actual answer- as someone who's especially s- just coming from a, a, a prep school situation?
00:16:34.595 --> 00:16:34.904
Yes.
00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:37.063
I wanna understand why it's happening.
00:16:37.063 --> 00:16:37.073
Okay.
00:16:37.153 --> 00:16:42.802
Cause that, that will e- encourage other people, other schools to reach out.
00:16:43.250 --> 00:16:43.605
Okay.
00:16:43.605 --> 00:16:44.485
That's, that's all it is.
00:16:44.515 --> 00:16:52.378
It's 100% a cry for more schools, for more attention, for more people, positively or negatively.
00:16:52.541 --> 00:17:05.888
Maybe you don't like the recruitment that you have, but if all of a sudden you see a team in your league offering somebody and you go,"Okay, you know, either, A, I thought his recruitment would've been a lot higher, maybe his recruitment is, is coming back down.
00:17:05.896 --> 00:17:18.309
Now maybe I can call on this kid," or, or, B, it's just, you know,"Hey, that school typically does a really good job evaluating sc- uh, kids, and if he's good enough for them, maybe he's good enough for us." Yeah, give it a shot.
00:17:18.654 --> 00:17:18.987
Yeah.
00:17:18.987 --> 00:17:18.999
Okay.
00:17:19.217 --> 00:17:30.500
So that is, that is 100%, uh, for other people to, to, to notice or think about recruiting them or consider them more
00:18:10.923 --> 00:18:12.259
Now be the dad.
00:18:12.798 --> 00:18:13.834
Is this healthy?
00:18:13.985 --> 00:18:20.088
Is this a healthy way to go about it from a coach, parent, athlete perspective?
00:18:21.526 --> 00:18:23.457
And again, I'll, I'll, I'll accept whatever you say.
00:18:23.630 --> 00:18:24.410
I, I just...
00:18:24.429 --> 00:18:25.567
I'm having a hard time.
00:18:26.004 --> 00:18:37.996
I, I hear what you're saying, and I love that, that that's, that's there for the kids, and I love that coaches are paying attention to it, but it's still, it doesn't feel right to me that I just went and had a great experience with you.
00:18:37.996 --> 00:18:42.870
You offered me, I posted it, but I have no interest going to Westminster.
00:18:43.353 --> 00:18:43.549
None.
00:18:43.551 --> 00:18:43.742
Sure.
00:18:44.431 --> 00:18:44.807
Sure.
00:18:45.305 --> 00:18:45.775
It is, it is
00:18:45.822 --> 00:18:47.434
a game- What does that say about my integrity?
00:18:48.062 --> 00:18:48.446
It is...
00:18:48.464 --> 00:18:58.796
It, no, 100%, it i- it, it is a game, and it's, you know, it's like, uh, they're openly sometimes recruiting other schools to hit them up.
00:18:58.798 --> 00:19:03.611
And, and, and, and you understand that sometimes as a coach, and you understand- Yeah the game that's being played.
00:19:03.611 --> 00:19:08.559
And, you know, the, the ones that, that I, I, I'll be less cynical.
00:19:08.779 --> 00:19:19.462
There'll be some that are doing it because they want their friends to see how cool this is that they're getting something, and now their buddies are reaching out to them, and that's part of it as well, right?
00:19:19.472 --> 00:19:26.339
That's the, the less cynical version of y- he, they're doing it so their friend can say,"Hey, man, that's great," and they feel really good about themselves.
00:19:26.719 --> 00:19:26.906
Yeah.
00:19:26.931 --> 00:19:34.621
But I, I think at least 50%, if not more, are doing it strictly to gain, to garner other schools' attention.
00:19:34.992 --> 00:19:35.368
Okay.
00:19:36.446 --> 00:19:43.019
I'm, I'm, I'm curious to see what that percentage, that is what their thought process is or that's their explanation.
00:19:43.185 --> 00:19:43.732
Mm-hmm.
00:19:43.844 --> 00:19:44.472
You know what I mean?
00:19:45.601 --> 00:19:46.482
Yeah, I don't know.
00:19:46.482 --> 00:19:49.553
I, I, I think somebody is telling them to post it.
00:19:49.889 --> 00:19:50.086
Yeah.
00:19:50.087 --> 00:19:50.311
Right?
00:19:50.337 --> 00:19:57.535
And they also see, hey, you know, like my friend who was recruited two years ago, he was posting it, so that's what you do.
00:19:57.813 --> 00:20:04.723
It's just become a social norm and expectation, um, you know, where that kind of stuff starts to happen a little bit.
00:20:06.138 --> 00:20:09.378
Do you want kids to post that they've got an offer from you?
00:20:10.582 --> 00:20:26.981
You know, I, I actually don't mind it as much because- Part of taking over at Westminster has been repairing relationships with local Utah high school, uh, kids, their parents.
00:20:27.456 --> 00:20:29.372
Part of it is free marketing in a way.
00:20:29.487 --> 00:20:29.631
Yeah.
00:20:29.655 --> 00:20:41.615
Where part of it, it's like, oh, this good player posted he got an offer from Westminster, so now in two years when it's time for me to be recruited, that's more of a viable option.
00:20:41.862 --> 00:20:43.164
Like, they know it exists.
00:20:43.164 --> 00:20:51.044
It's, it's marking our territory sometimes as like, hey, this, this is what we prioritize, local high school Utah kids.
00:20:51.286 --> 00:20:54.003
Um, you know, so I don't mind it as much.
00:20:54.200 --> 00:20:55.972
Um, I, I've got no problem with it.
00:20:56.373 --> 00:21:06.013
And I'm, and I'm confident in my program and in what we can offer kids and families and in our school that, you know, I'm not worried about it drawing more people in.
00:21:06.141 --> 00:21:06.495
You know?
00:21:06.495 --> 00:21:06.505
Yeah.
00:21:06.505 --> 00:21:14.858
I just, you know, at the end of the day, you know, I think it's, uh, something that the kid is proud of, and you, you feel a certain bit of pride that you can, you can offer that situation for them.
00:21:15.505 --> 00:21:16.233
I love that.
00:21:16.296 --> 00:21:28.111
That perspective really helps me, because if I'm a high school coach, and maybe the coaches in the past there haven't done a good job of recruiting locally, or I've been disappointed that they haven't come see my kids or taken...
00:21:28.471 --> 00:21:30.774
And I see that you're actively doing that.
00:21:31.915 --> 00:21:38.485
I don't know if that's the way I wanna see it, but the fact that you are doing it, it makes me feel good that you're, y- you're looking- Look- at our local kids.
00:21:38.485 --> 00:21:40.837
You're, you're g- you're addressing that.
00:21:41.144 --> 00:21:41.492
Yeah.
00:21:41.505 --> 00:21:48.728
So part, part of this is, um, my staff and I, um, pretty much every day each go to about a workout or two.
00:21:49.058 --> 00:21:49.180
Nice.
00:21:49.180 --> 00:21:57.075
An open gym or two, um, in the area, and it's like realistically, we just brought in 11 freshmen and a whole bunch of kids.
00:21:57.089 --> 00:22:00.878
You know, I don't know what our'27 class is gonna look like.
00:22:01.146 --> 00:22:01.296
Uh-huh.
00:22:01.296 --> 00:22:02.778
How many kids we're really gonna need.
00:22:03.048 --> 00:22:16.604
Um, but at the end of the day, it's more like seeing the younger kids and letting the younger kids see you, and okay, Westminster exists, and seeing those coaches and, you know, kinda getting your name out there.
00:22:16.686 --> 00:22:29.956
And look, like, you know, not to think, not that I'm just thinking about this from a school perspective, but some of those kids in that open gym might be a, uh, uh, not a basketball player, somebody who might just want to attend Westminster as a regular student.
00:22:30.409 --> 00:22:30.623
Love it.
00:22:30.623 --> 00:22:32.283
And they're seeing it, they're seeing you.
00:22:32.284 --> 00:22:34.294
It's like you're a, you're a billboard out there.
00:22:34.805 --> 00:22:35.109
Yeah, yeah.
00:22:35.496 --> 00:22:38.102
I get to b- I could, maybe I could be a rock star there too.
00:22:38.169 --> 00:22:39.387
Mm-hmm, exactly.
00:22:39.567 --> 00:22:47.820
All right, Coach, that's why I do this podcast,'cause I, I come in with a ton of ignorance, and smart coaches like you bring me around, so I appreciate that.
00:22:48.131 --> 00:22:48.929
I needed that.
00:22:49.332 --> 00:22:56.402
All right, Coach, let's, let's finish with your wisdom I'm a, I'm a 16-year-old.
00:22:56.413 --> 00:22:58.012
I wanna play college basketball.
00:22:59.017 --> 00:23:03.158
How do I reach out to you to get your attention, and do you want me to reach out to you?
00:23:03.526 --> 00:23:04.490
Yeah, of course.
00:23:04.553 --> 00:23:14.954
I, uh, I always like new names and new, new, new directions to go to, so my email, uh, is on the website, uh, on Westminster website.
00:23:14.955 --> 00:23:15.487
It's, it's...
00:23:15.510 --> 00:23:19.982
I'll just tell it now, but it's cstanley@westminsteru.edu.
00:23:19.982 --> 00:23:20.399
Um-
00:23:20.399 --> 00:23:22.680
Well, I'm glad you give the right one to other people.
00:23:22.822 --> 00:23:22.994
Yes.
00:23:23.550 --> 00:23:24.229
I mean, you don't- I, I did.
00:23:24.229 --> 00:23:25.312
That's right, I did give you the...
00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:26.492
I forgot the U.
00:23:26.820 --> 00:23:27.466
I always forget the U.
00:23:27.466 --> 00:23:27.527
I thought you
00:23:27.529 --> 00:23:29.058
were trying to ghost me, Coach.
00:23:29.083 --> 00:23:29.443
Yeah.
00:23:29.482 --> 00:23:30.968
I al- I always forget the U.
00:23:30.971 --> 00:23:32.745
I appreciate you sliding in my DMs, though.
00:23:32.747 --> 00:23:33.471
That, that helps.
00:23:33.913 --> 00:23:38.651
Um, but, uh, no, the, uh- I'm just teasing But no, that, that's...
00:23:38.694 --> 00:23:42.038
I, I, I don't mind kids'cause I know how ha- how difficult it is.
00:23:42.040 --> 00:23:50.057
I just came from that space where- Oh you know, these kids are so hungry to be recruited, and nobody's listening to them, nobody's hearing them out, so I, I love...
00:23:50.058 --> 00:23:52.389
And I, I don't always do a great job of responding.
00:23:52.403 --> 00:23:55.986
There's usually a day where I'll catch up on 10, 11, 12 emails.
00:23:55.988 --> 00:24:00.598
But, um, I'm always watching or sending them to my staff to evaluate you as a player.
00:24:00.907 --> 00:24:03.322
Um, you know, I think social media's a great...
00:24:03.357 --> 00:24:11.075
I mean, I, I think we're, we're pretty active on Instagram and, and Twitter as well and just trying to reach out to kids and see, see what else is out there.
00:24:11.126 --> 00:24:17.886
Um, but- Right I'm, I'm always looking for new names and new, new, new people, um, you know, to, to, to look at for the future.
00:24:18.371 --> 00:24:20.757
Is there something that catches your eye?
00:24:20.983 --> 00:24:33.961
And, and I know this is hard when you're getting so many emails and, and so many social media messages as you are, but is there stuff that catches your eye that you're like,"All right, I'm gonna open this email," you know,"I've got a couple minutes," or,"I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take a look at this kid's film on Instagram"?
00:24:34.298 --> 00:24:35.779
I, I will, I will tell you this.
00:24:35.799 --> 00:24:38.832
I would not say there's anything in particular that, that I...
00:24:38.870 --> 00:24:39.701
Well, do you know what?
00:24:39.761 --> 00:24:41.384
High GPA, right?
00:24:41.564 --> 00:24:41.841
Right.
00:24:41.865 --> 00:24:42.381
That, that...
00:24:42.613 --> 00:24:52.519
And then honestly, some people think that's lip service, but, like, legitimately, I don't know if I'm only gonna bring in freshmen going forward, but what I will tell you is I'm only gonna bring in high GPAs.
00:24:52.788 --> 00:24:52.934
Yeah.
00:24:52.934 --> 00:25:05.142
So if you've got your honest GPA, I've had some kids mislead me about their GPAs, if you have your honest GPA on your social media, um, there's a good chance that I will look at that quicker than most.
00:25:05.215 --> 00:25:05.391
So- Do
00:25:05.391 --> 00:25:06.712
you want cumulative or weighted?
00:25:07.048 --> 00:25:08.500
Uh, cumulative is great.
00:25:08.838 --> 00:25:08.985
Okay.
00:25:08.985 --> 00:25:09.552
That works for me.
00:25:09.996 --> 00:25:19.304
Um- Uh- But that, that, if, if I see a kid with, like, a 3.9, 4.0, 3.8 GPA, I'm clicking on that thing right away.
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:30.175
That's the only thing that'll get you moved higher to the front of my box, because I am not gonna take anyone, to be honest with you, probably below a 3.4, 3.5 while I'm here
00:25:31.765 --> 00:25:34.713
Tell these families why that's so important.
00:25:34.713 --> 00:25:36.687
It's not just getting in the door at Westminster.
00:25:36.687 --> 00:25:41.458
What does that do for you from a scholarship perspective, a stackings perspective?
00:25:41.637 --> 00:25:42.397
Yeah, 100%.
00:25:42.620 --> 00:25:44.783
So the most...
00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:57.116
The higher your GPA is, the higher academic money you're awarded from the school, and that means the less a- athletic money I have to give you to get you to where you need to go to attend my school.
00:25:57.277 --> 00:26:03.587
So that's the higher GPAs, uh, are something that I, I wanna prioritize that.
00:26:03.613 --> 00:26:07.481
I wanna have a team full of, of, of high GPA guys.
00:26:07.511 --> 00:26:20.428
Now, now on more of a basketball standpoint, the higher GPA you are, the higher achieving human you typically are, the more responsible you typically are, the more committed to a task you typically are.
00:26:20.723 --> 00:26:25.199
Um, so that means you would fit in well in a basketball perspective.
00:26:25.667 --> 00:26:34.310
Westminster is also a very high academic school, and guys who succeed typically come in with high GPAs and have shown that they can do that work.
00:26:34.310 --> 00:26:49.745
And the, the less conversations I have to have about doing the simple things like doing your homework and writing your papers and being prepared for tests, the more I can talk about basketball, which at the end of the day, that is what our program is.
00:26:49.806 --> 00:26:53.675
We are probably the most, uh, Division One, Division Two in the country.
00:26:53.958 --> 00:26:58.471
Um, everything we do is high basketball.
00:26:59.038 --> 00:27:02.930
If you do not love the game, we're probably not a great fit for you.
00:27:03.261 --> 00:27:05.257
Um, I'm gonna coach you hard.
00:27:05.300 --> 00:27:11.853
I'm gonna put high expectations on you, but if, if you love the game, there's no better place to go than Westminster.
00:27:12.733 --> 00:27:16.096
And student athletes, there's a recurring theme here with Coach Stanley.
00:27:16.571 --> 00:27:29.748
He wants to see on your film that you can do everything, and if you can defend and you can rebound and you can run the floor, and you can make the extra pass and swing the ball, and you're a great teammate, it's a heck of a lot easier to recruit you because those are all things he doesn't have to teach you.
00:27:30.082 --> 00:27:39.635
If you're a high academic kid, and you know how to study and how to learn, and you know how to excel in the classroom, that's something he doesn't have to worry about teaching you when you get there.
00:27:39.637 --> 00:27:41.028
So I love that, Coach.
00:27:41.347 --> 00:27:47.744
Anybody that's read my book, Significant Recruiting, we call that the Merc- Mercedes for the cost of a Toyota philosophy.
00:27:47.966 --> 00:27:47.979
Mm-hmm.
00:27:47.979 --> 00:27:48.298
Right?
00:27:48.298 --> 00:27:48.357
I
00:27:48.358 --> 00:27:48.625
get.
00:27:48.745 --> 00:27:56.597
I get, I get a high achiever for very, very cheap,'cause my school's gonna give you academic money, and I don't have to pay full price for you, right?
00:27:56.778 --> 00:27:57.149
Right.
00:27:57.288 --> 00:27:57.869
I love it.
00:27:58.237 --> 00:27:58.655
Love it.
00:27:59.012 --> 00:27:59.359
All right.
00:27:59.754 --> 00:28:02.573
Give some advice to parents going through this journey with their kids.
00:28:03.667 --> 00:28:08.103
The, the one thing I can tell you is do not panic, right?
00:28:08.113 --> 00:28:08.131
Mm-hmm.
00:28:08.140 --> 00:28:09.003
There are so many...
00:28:09.275 --> 00:28:09.555
There's...
00:28:09.594 --> 00:28:15.340
And, and, and it's, it's the landscape of recruiting has changed so drastically in the last five years.
00:28:15.730 --> 00:28:28.026
Um, and, and desperation on your part, the kids can certainly feel that a little bit, and I know most of the time you're just wanting, uh, their dream for them so bad.
00:28:28.036 --> 00:28:29.132
You wanna see them succeed.
00:28:29.133 --> 00:28:30.311
I'm a parent myself.
00:28:30.551 --> 00:28:37.938
I, I want my daughter to be h- happy more so than anything on this planet, so I understand why you feel that pressure.
00:28:38.346 --> 00:28:44.005
But at the end of the day, if, if it's meant to be, it's meant to be, and it might look a little different.
00:28:44.005 --> 00:28:47.597
The path might be a little bit different than it was five, 10 years ago.
00:28:47.850 --> 00:28:56.568
But if your kid is committed to succeeding in the classroom, succeeding on the court, being a great person, everything will work out in, at the end for them.
00:28:57.638 --> 00:28:58.112
That's awesome.
00:28:58.404 --> 00:28:59.161
Great advice.
00:28:59.471 --> 00:29:00.648
Last piece of advice.
00:29:00.698 --> 00:29:07.206
High school coaches, club coaches, prep school coaches, number one, how do you want them to build a relationship with you?
00:29:08.078 --> 00:29:12.608
And number two, what advice should they be giving their, their athletes that wanna play in college?
00:29:12.650 --> 00:29:15.116
And what, maybe what should they be doing for them and with them?
00:29:15.473 --> 00:29:15.879
Yeah.
00:29:16.002 --> 00:29:19.202
So it is, and this is actually an interesting question.
00:29:19.202 --> 00:29:23.432
Number one, I think I'm, I'm extremely, um, uh...
00:29:23.432 --> 00:29:25.146
You could contact me in many ways.
00:29:25.146 --> 00:29:26.721
I'm very much out there on Instagram.
00:29:26.721 --> 00:29:28.042
I'm very much out there on Twitter.
00:29:28.292 --> 00:29:29.151
I'm very much...
00:29:29.152 --> 00:29:31.125
My email is posted everywhere.
00:29:31.356 --> 00:29:39.322
Like, I, I am all over the place, so if you want to find me, there are millions of ways to contact me, get in that relationship.
00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:47.155
I would say the biggest thing, if you wanna help your athletes get recruited, is put, put them out there to college coaches.
00:29:47.471 --> 00:29:48.577
Reach out to them.
00:29:48.745 --> 00:29:49.564
Email them.
00:29:49.836 --> 00:29:50.560
Text them.
00:29:50.575 --> 00:29:51.750
Give them information.
00:29:51.972 --> 00:30:08.252
Have a good open gym schedule where it's like,"Hey, this is when we're going." And, and be very, um, easily workable in that situation,'cause there's so many, there's so many situations where, where coaches go,"Oh, I want my kid recruited," but then they don't go out and work in the process at all.
00:30:08.688 --> 00:30:08.769
Right.
00:30:08.783 --> 00:30:10.519
That's a, that's a big part of that, too.
00:30:10.806 --> 00:30:18.281
Um, I think the, the biggest thing is, is, is what, what everybody needs to tell these high school kids is the same thing I just told their parents.
00:30:18.471 --> 00:30:19.131
Calm down.
00:30:19.211 --> 00:30:19.761
Relax.
00:30:19.762 --> 00:30:20.579
Don't press.
00:30:20.976 --> 00:30:30.846
Um, because that's the hardest thing, is sometimes these high school kids think,"Hey, I gotta go out now and score 40, because I'm not getting recruited," when that's just a, a small part of the game.
00:30:31.125 --> 00:30:36.282
Um, and I think, I think that's harder for these kids to realize, and, and it's...
00:30:36.509 --> 00:30:40.221
Panicking is, is no way to go through your senior year of, of high school.
00:30:40.681 --> 00:30:41.164
I agree.
00:30:43.211 --> 00:30:47.769
Coach, uh, I can't tell you how lucky Westminster is to have you.
00:30:47.817 --> 00:30:50.050
Um, I'm so glad you have each other.
00:30:50.421 --> 00:30:50.715
Thank you.
00:30:50.778 --> 00:30:58.966
And for all you presidents out there, I consult with athletic departments all over the country, college and university presidents, this is what you're looking for when you're interviewing.
00:30:59.008 --> 00:31:01.041
This is the answers you're looking for.
00:31:01.229 --> 00:31:02.599
This is the character you're looking for.
00:31:02.600 --> 00:31:04.163
This is the integrity you're looking for.
00:31:04.347 --> 00:31:06.808
So Coach, thank you so much for your authenticity.
00:31:07.060 --> 00:31:08.820
Thank you so much for your passion.
00:31:09.105 --> 00:31:11.356
I've loved getting to know you and talking to you.
00:31:11.618 --> 00:31:15.947
You got such a big fan in me, and I know great things are coming.
00:31:15.980 --> 00:31:16.798
Thanks for doing this.
00:31:17.182 --> 00:31:17.628
Great, man.
00:31:17.632 --> 00:31:18.306
Thanks for having me
00:31:19.495 --> 00:31:29.815
And that's a wrap on part two of my conversation with Westminster University head men's basketball coach, Casey Stanley, and episode 200 of the Significant Coaching Podcast.
00:31:30.055 --> 00:31:36.035
A huge thank you to Casey and to every guest and every one of you who has helped us get to 200 episodes.
00:31:36.205 --> 00:31:38.425
I can't wait to see where we go from here.
00:31:38.645 --> 00:31:46.655
You can find all 200 episodes at coachmattrogers.com/podcast or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
00:31:46.885 --> 00:31:52.655
Until next time, control what you can control, be humble, and keep chasing significance
