WEBVTT
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Three teachers reported me to admin for breaking district policy.
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Like, there aren't kids here.
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Welcome to Queering Education, where we challenge what school is and build what it should be.
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I'm Brian Stanton.
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This is a Teaching While Queer podcast about inclusive teaching, queer pedagogy, and showing up authentically in every classroom.
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Alright, let's do the work.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Queering Education, a Teaching While Queer podcast.
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I have your host, Brian Stanton.
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My pronouns are they, them.
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And today I have the privilege of speaking with Alex Holford.
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How are you doing, Alex?
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I'm doing well.
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My pronouns are also they them.
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Oh, sweet.
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Welcome.
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And can you tell us more about yourself?
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Um, yeah, so I'm a special education teacher who's been teaching for 15 years.
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11 of those have been in the self-contained classroom.
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Um, I also realized three, four years ago that I was non-binary, um, and so been navigating that new world um and kind of jumped in headfirst.
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Um, I was a founder for KD Pride, I do a queer support group, I do a trans support group, and I um help the Transparent Closet, which gives free clothes to trans kids.
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I love that so much.
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I uh I started this podcast in San Antonio.
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Um, so I'm very familiar with your area because I've I've been around um back and forth for different events and conferences and visits with family.
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Um and I I appreciate one of two things.
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Uh I will appreciate you in multiple realms.
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I appreciate people in multiple realms.
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Um, but one that you're doing the work on uh on identity and like understanding yourself even in environments that are not necessarily safe for that, and two, that you're doing it in a way that is visible.
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Um, because I definitely experienced some of that.
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I started my non-binary journey, um, or my I call it my gender expression journey uh while I was in Texas, um, and definitely have been the the receiving end of some side eye.
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Not that that changed when I moved to New York City.
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I still get side eye, but um there's something about blue hair.
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People are like, what?
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What are you doing?
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I'm like, I'm looking fabulous.
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What's your problem?
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Um tell my friends that this hair isn't for me, it's for others.
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Um, because it's a visual signifier to the community that I'm a non-binary person.
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Um if you know, you know, but if you don't, it's just is a weird haircut.
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Yeah, I fully appreciate that and understand.
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I do there are specific things that I do um to wear my gender expression.
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Um and you know, Judith Butler, sorry, I'm a nerd.
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Judith Butler would say that it would be a perform performing gender, which I think is quite true that we all do that.
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Um and so I do a lot of performing gender neutral and gender non-binary for other people's sake because it really doesn't impact my identity.
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But I do get to understand my comfortability with masculinity and femininity by doing so.
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Um, and understand where like they're not hard lines, but things that I'm less comfortable with as just an expression of myself.
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Um what brings you joy and what doesn't.
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Exactly that.
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What sparks joy?
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Okay, Marie Kondo.
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Um so let's talk a little bit about what got you into education and specifically special education, because it really takes a wonderful like person to be in a special education classroom.
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Some of my favorite classes I've taught as a theater educator were specifically with our students from the self-contained room that actually they would venture out for my class for the elective.
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Um, and I loved it so much, and there's some of my fondest educational memories is working with uh with my students in what we called unified theater, which was an extension of the Special Special Olympics.
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Um, so how did you find yourself on that path?
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So when I was in first grade, I wanted to be a dinosaur, and I was in second grade, I wanted to be a teacher.
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Well, and from second grade, I knew I was gonna teach from that point on.
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Um, my entire family are band directors.
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Um, I've been steeped in education, um, and knew that world wasn't for me.
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Um, but my grandparents lived in Mexico, and so I actually went to school for bilingual education.
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Um and my last semester before student teaching, we did a block class, and I selected special education, and I got put in a life schools class, which is a self-contained classroom, and I was like, oh, I need this, I need this every day.
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This is what I want from now on forever.
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Um, and so I graduated and I started teaching in second grade and I got my SED certification and I moved and I was a kind of rocky process to get where I wanted to be.
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But once I got in self-contained, I started with the littles, um, three to six year olds, and then life skills um first grade through fifth grade, and then now I'm actually in um what's called YCAP.
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It's an autism program, and so my students are mostly aggressive, high behavior, low communication students, and we're teaching them the skills to cope and communicate so that they can go to theater in junior high and high school um without hurting themselves or others just from the obwomeness of it all.
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I love that so much.
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Um, I also think that being bilingual is an asset in working in special education, especially in Texas, and I'm assuming in other border states um with near Mexico, because quite a few of my students um couldn't communicate in English, and the I the um the process of like ESL was relatively difficult, right?
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And so the the educators who were able to communicate with them in Spanish actually found a lot of uh a progress.
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And so I think that um that's something that people don't necessarily consider when they're thinking about um folks with uh disabilities, is that there is intersectionality in the within their identities also and within their experiences.
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I mean, it's definitely helped some of my kids.
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Um it's helped my parents more because I can talk to them a little bit easier sometimes.
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Um, but for self-contained people don't understand too, is like I rely on other people.
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I have a team of eight people that work with me in two different classrooms, and they're lawyers and engineers in Venezuela and Venezuela, they have master's degrees, and here they're a pair that's getting minimum wage and trying to get their degree validated by this by the country.
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And so their English may not be to my English, but my Spanish is not to their Spanish, and you know, it's been very helpful and it's helped me speak more Spanish in my work environment.
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Um, I mean, the kids for sure, but everyone around your school, especially Texas, is gonna have other languages um that we need to be aware of and respectful for.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And I think that um what you just said is a huge uh mark of a problem with the education department at the moment, is the um refusal to recognize expertise from other countries as if getting a doctorate in another country is somehow lesser.
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Um I actually have a friend, she has an educational doctorate from Oxford University in the UK, and in New York City or New York State is having trouble with them recognizing her doctorate as a full uh doctoral experience because it's shorter in the UK.
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It's not a five-year program like it is uh in the US, and I'm like, that's fiscally responsible, man.
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Um but like it's Oxford.
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It's Oxford.
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I know it's what you do in university.
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I'm so confused.
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It's like the one of the most prestigious when I think of like um universities in the UK.
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It is like the first one that pops into my brain.
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It's like Oxford and Cambridge, and that is that's my knowledge.
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That's the extent of what I've got, other than some of the universities that people work at that I've spoken with on the podcast.
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So I think that our education department, hopefully under future management one day, will need to assess what why there is this inferior inferiority complex when it comes to outside um degree programs, because I really I've looked at some degrees that are based in Mexico because I wanted to um expand also on my language acquisition.
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Um, and while the program is in English uh and it's virtual, in order for it to be accepted here as a doctorate when you're going to like work at a university or whatnot, there's a whole years-long route that you have to take for it to be validated, and I just find that wild.
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Um, we've never talked about this on the podcast, so thanks for bringing that up because it is as uh it is a problem that needs to be addressed.
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So I'm curious how your queerness um shows up in your work in education.
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Um so a lot of it's appearance.
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Again, my kids are nonverbal mostly low communication, they're not worried about pronouns in my classroom.
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Um I tell them to call me age, but I get called all sorts of things by my kids when they can communicate.
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Um, but I'm pres I'm around the school, and so I wear a lot of rainbow shirts.
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I my lanyard is a non-binary flag, and the lanyard holder is a non-binary flag, and it's intentional.
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Um, Katie has some really strict um anti-trans litigation and policies, and so I can't tell anyone at work my pronouns um as Holdford, as teacher Holdford.
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I can say, hey, call me H.
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I can talk to any private one-on-one conversation I want to have.
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Um, but I can't like say, hey, all my parents, you know, here's my pronouns, please use them.
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I I can't do that.
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Um what I can do that's not against policy is get a tattoo that says they them.
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Um and so when I give handshakes and I'm around their kids and my language is a non-binary and it they can see it on my wrist because I'm wearing short sleeves all the time, I'm presenting myself in a way that is queer.
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I'm not wearing skirts to work.
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Even if I was a ciswoman, I wouldn't wear skirts to work.
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My kids go under them.
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Um, my females in my team are not wearing skirts to work.
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Um, but I try to find clothes that are more affirming to me, um, be a lot as I can.
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And the parents who are supportive show up.
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Um, oh my god.
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One of my parents um bought me nail polish for my birthday and I almost cried because it was just so affirming.
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Um and some, you know, blatantly ignore it, but it's never been an issue with my parents.
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But they know.
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I love that.
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I it's so interesting as someone who had worked in Texas um also that I never experienced a lot of problems from my parents.
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Not my parents from my program.
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Um there was always a lot of conversation from people who had nothing to do with me from the outside looking in.
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And then when I left the first school that I was teaching at, all of a sudden, since the rainbow flag bearer was no longer there, they like did a complete 180 and were like, no rainbows in the classroom unless it's a specifically sanctioned like club or organization.
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So I had teachers being like, send me the logo for the the saga club.
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Uh, we need to make mask shirts immediately because we're not allowed to have safe space up anymore.
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We're not allowed to have the Trevor Project emergency line, crisis lifeline on the phone on the wall anymore.
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We're not allowed to do these things that are specific.
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And it and I I get frustrated because there are two things that would have happened.
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If I would have stayed, I would have been fired, possibly arrested.
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Um or two, the other option is that they wouldn't have done it because they wouldn't, I would have been too vocal of a person to fight against.
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I was their teacher of the year.
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I was the teacher of the year when when I um when I left, and it wasn't until two years after the state law was impacted.
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But I saw it.
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It happened in small spaces, it happened in school board meetings, right?
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And it's like I love this because um my experience was TEA, Texas Educational Association, had a training that we had to do about pronouns.
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And then we did the work with pronouns the next school year, and then all of the parents, like all of these conservative parents started throwing a fit about pronouns being used.
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Um meanwhile, like we were told by Texas Education Association to do this training, and it's like the people who were running it did not know it existed.
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Um and and so all of this started to ripple into other things that have drastically changed the environment of the state.
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And I actively right now am helping educators who are either queer or have queer children find jobs in other states and figure out reciprocity.
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One of the resources on the Teaching While Queer website is a link to teacher certification reciprocity and how you can take your certification in your state and what states you can go to with it, because there have been such drastic changes, especially in southern states, that feel dangerous.
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It's not just like don't ask, don't tell.
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It's like if we even have an inkling or if someone says which, we're gonna burn you.
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Um as Lohan, as long as no one talks, it's fine.
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But the second someone says something, it's over.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And it's funny because when I was leaving, I was a theater educator, right, in San Antonio.
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When I was leaving, Katie was in the news because they had just passed something.
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Um TEA had made some sanction about like drag, uh, or a law had had existed about or was being debated about drag performances for children, and Katie pulled a production of uh a touring production of James and the Giant Peach because a male presenting actor was going to play Miss Spider.
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A male presenting human being was going to play a spider that was female presenting, and so they pulled the performance from coming to their elementary school, and I'm like, it's James and the Giant Peach.
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Yeah, like of all things roll doll is not like the epitome of like PC.
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Like he had his own flaws when he was alive, and some of the stuff that he did were problematic.
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So the fact that you're like, I'm gonna pull roll doll because of an actor is insane.
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And when that happened, I turned to the theater education associations and I was like, this is gonna become a problem for you.
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You're not gonna be able to use um the plethora of girl students that a high school program will have in your in your productions in paint roles or in mail roles because people are gonna throw a fit, I'm just preparing you, and they're like, no, no.
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The legislator says this will not affect educational theater.
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It did.
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It did.
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It did.
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Yeah.
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Um gosh, it's such a such an interesting, we're living through such an interesting timeline.
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Could we not?
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Can what?
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Could we not absolutely reset, please?
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Where's um Doctor Strange?
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Um to rewind things.
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Um I want to talk a little bit about what it was like for you to start your your gender expression journey and and doing that in the educational field, especially, you know, in Texas.
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Yeah, so um ironically, KDS ISD is what helped me realize my gender identity.
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Um so I was going to this church and we did a fashion show, and I did some gender non-conforming looks.
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Um and I wore skirts for the fashion show for the first time from the Transparent Closet, an amazing organization.
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I'll talk about a little bit later.
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Um and I was like, okay, you know, I think maybe like a they, he or he, they.
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I'm gonna start trying with some friends.
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Um you know, but like I'll never be they then because I'm gonna have to be he at work, and it's fine.
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Um, you know, I can just be they, he, and I can be they with my friend group and he at work or other places, and I'm not gonna that's that's fine.
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Um and then KDSD did a gender policy, and I was like, no, this sucks.
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This sucks.
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Um and if I if they're saying I can't be they anywhere, then I'm just then that's it.
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Like we're gonna try that for a little bit.
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Um and I tried it on like a pair of pants, and they fit really good, um, and brought me a lot of joy.
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And so I was fortunate enough to have um we had a a staff meeting um about this and what we could and couldn't say and how she didn't want to have this meeting, but she had to have this meeting, and yada yada.
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Um and so I went to her and I was like, look, I'm non-binary, this is affecting me.
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Like, this is the district saying they don't want me to exist.
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Um I'm really upset, like I want to quit teaching.
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And she was really supportive.
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Um, and they took steps that year.
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Um, they took Mr.
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off of my box, they took Mr.
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off of my wall.
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Um, you know, they couldn't correct anybody, they couldn't do certain things, but they worked to be gender neutral around me.
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Um, and it was really affirming, and I was really lucky, and then as policies have changed and changed from the state level, that's kind of um been reduced.
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Um, but I've always wanted to explore femininity, and it never felt super safe.
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And once I realized that it just wasn't safe at all, then I kind of stopped caring.
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If there was no safe way to explore, then dive in.
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So I started painting my nails, um, which aren't painted today.
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I'm annoyed about it.
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Um, I tried some different hairstyles, I started looking into the things.
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Um, my wardrobe already had a lot of bright colors in it, so that didn't change too much.
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But I tried some women's pants that had different colors or fit differently, and it's just subtle things.
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And um one thing I did is I started putting non-binary stickers on my coffee cups because they have dress code policies and things like that, but they don't have um policies regarding personal goods like coffee cups, and just finding the ways that I could push that expression um with my team and myself to just be more comfortable and not hide who I am.
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Yeah, I think that's fantastic, and I also think about being subversive in interesting ways.
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For instance, I'm going to teach at a conference later on today, and I have this outfit that I got for the Pride Day at the middle school that I was teaching at last year.
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Um, and our middle school had class in June, so we had our like we had Pride Month and we had specific Pride Day where it was like wear bright colors or whatever.
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So I chose to color block uh the genderqueer flag.
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Uh and so I have a purple purple shirt on.
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For those of you who are listening, I have a purple shirt on, I have a white belt, and my shirt is tucked in, I have a white belt and I have green pants.
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Um, so I am effectively the genderqueer flag.
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And I also have done the same thing with a non-binary flag where I have a yellow shirt and then purple and uh white and black, and I will layer myself in a way that is blatant but subversive.
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Um because you have to know to know.
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Uh, and what I love about uh the non-binary sticker that you just brought up is that it's a sticker of a figure, right?
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It's a cartoon, but it's color blocked with the non-binary flag on it.
00:21:52.570 --> 00:22:05.850
So again, it's done in a way where you have to know to know, and so it's a signal, it's important for the people who are in the community, for the people who are exploring the community.
00:22:06.090 --> 00:22:08.890
And children, especially children, they do.
00:22:09.050 --> 00:22:13.289
I had fifth graders telling me about their flags because we had all the flags up, right?
00:22:13.370 --> 00:22:16.890
Um, all the queer pride flags in the the school.
00:22:16.970 --> 00:22:18.570
And I had fifth graders being like, Mr.
00:22:18.650 --> 00:22:20.570
Stanton, can I show you my flag?
00:22:20.810 --> 00:22:21.850
And I was like, sure.
00:22:22.009 --> 00:22:24.890
And they walked over to the lesbian flag and they were like, This is my flag.
00:22:25.050 --> 00:22:26.890
And I was like, sick, love that for you.
00:22:27.050 --> 00:22:29.529
And I walked over to my flag and I was like, This is my flag.
00:22:29.690 --> 00:22:36.330
Um And they observe and they are more aware than we ever were at their age.
00:22:36.490 --> 00:22:36.810
Oh my god.
00:22:37.050 --> 00:22:40.730
So if we have those subtle hints, it's enough.
00:22:40.890 --> 00:22:41.610
It is enough.
00:22:41.769 --> 00:22:44.330
It doesn't have to necessarily be loud and proud.
00:22:44.490 --> 00:22:49.130
It can be a sticker that is a cartoon that has the colors in them.
00:22:49.450 --> 00:22:50.090
Yeah.
00:22:50.490 --> 00:22:53.529
Um, I did get in trouble one day for it.
00:22:53.769 --> 00:22:55.289
Um, it was an in-service day.
00:22:55.370 --> 00:22:56.730
There were no kids on campus.
00:22:57.529 --> 00:22:59.050
An in-service day, are you kidding me?
00:22:59.450 --> 00:23:00.490
An in-service day.
00:23:00.650 --> 00:23:07.050
And I it was the first day of in-service, and I wore a t-shirt where the top half was they and the bottom half was them.
00:23:08.250 --> 00:23:14.890
And three teachers reported me to admin for breaking district policy.
00:23:15.210 --> 00:23:17.370
And a week later I got pulled in.
00:23:17.850 --> 00:23:20.650
Um and the lawyers got notified.
00:23:20.810 --> 00:23:22.730
HR got notified, they're trying to figure out how to handle it.
00:23:22.810 --> 00:23:23.850
Did I break it?
00:23:24.090 --> 00:23:26.650
And I asked for a copy of the policy, I didn't get it.
00:23:26.810 --> 00:23:31.610
Um, I decided not to push it, and because I was like, honestly at that point, word for my job.
00:23:31.769 --> 00:23:32.090
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:32.330 --> 00:23:34.490
I was like, I I'm wearing a t-shirt.
00:23:34.650 --> 00:23:42.330
Like, you three people, more people have a church shirt or church quote or whatever, but I can't wear two words on my shirt and a graphic tee.
00:23:42.410 --> 00:23:44.490
Like, there aren't kids here.
00:23:44.570 --> 00:23:48.650
If their kids were here, you'd have a really strong case for a breaking policy.
00:23:48.890 --> 00:23:54.090
Um, but like the policies about teaching children pronouns exist.
00:23:54.490 --> 00:23:56.170
They know they exist, they do.
00:23:56.410 --> 00:24:00.810
Um but or about telling someone to call you something.
00:24:00.970 --> 00:24:01.370
I didn't do that.
00:24:01.450 --> 00:24:03.370
I didn't have it, it was just a shirt.
00:24:04.090 --> 00:24:09.930
It was just a shirt on a day where it was just adults, and I think that right there is wild.
00:24:10.090 --> 00:24:21.370
And that's where people are messing up with policy right now, is because nothing is clear, nothing is definitively written in a way that says do this or that.
00:24:21.450 --> 00:24:30.890
It's up for interpretation, and that's when school districts bring in the lawyers, and then the lawyers interpret the law when that's really not their job.
00:24:31.370 --> 00:24:36.250
Yeah, it's the job of judges and legislators to like provide guidance.
00:24:36.410 --> 00:24:46.890
Um, but they're so afraid to say the quiet things out loud that they create vagueness in an effort to have people self-police.
00:24:47.529 --> 00:24:49.450
And that's where these things come into play.
00:24:49.529 --> 00:24:54.650
Because I think back to we had dress codes, but we had dress codes for when students were in the building.
00:24:54.810 --> 00:24:58.570
We didn't have dress codes for the days that we were just there on our own.
00:24:58.730 --> 00:25:12.410
ICO wears shorts, and uh and plenty of educators wear shorts and like tank tops on on days for in-service, especially because in Texas it's still 100 degrees when you start going back to school.
00:25:12.650 --> 00:25:26.810
And so I am so curious how they can try to balance those things where it's like the clothing don't matter on doesn't matter on these days, and also the clothing matters on these days.
00:25:27.130 --> 00:25:28.009
And matters all the time.
00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:30.570
Yeah.
00:25:30.890 --> 00:25:38.810
They tried to quote a library policy about not having books with numbering characters, that would then apply to my shirt.
00:25:40.090 --> 00:25:43.130
Did you say that you were where you're like, I'm not a character?
00:25:43.769 --> 00:25:54.250
Also, that's for the kids, that's policing what books the kids can check out, not you know, that's it's still about children in that aspect.
00:25:54.970 --> 00:25:56.810
All of those laws are about children.
00:25:57.130 --> 00:25:57.529
Yeah.
00:25:57.769 --> 00:26:06.170
Um actually, Texas now has some about what teachers can and cannot say, even to parents or other teachers, um, regarding their pronouns.
00:26:06.490 --> 00:26:16.330
Yeah, I have a friend who still teaches, he is uh near Austin in Kyle, and so he um Hazy I think he sends me updates.
00:26:16.810 --> 00:26:20.490
He he sends me updates, and I'm like, gosh.
00:26:20.730 --> 00:26:25.769
Um I saw this coming, which is part of the reason that my husband and I left.
00:26:25.930 --> 00:26:37.210
We came here for a conference where I was talking about teaching while queer, and the educators at the conference were like, We are unfamiliar with what you're talking about.
00:26:37.450 --> 00:26:44.009
Like, even in the conservative areas of upstate New York, they were like, We've never experienced anything like you're talking about.
00:26:44.170 --> 00:26:48.330
And I'm like, wow, that must be nice.
00:26:48.650 --> 00:26:53.529
Um, and then we left right before the legislation started changing.
00:26:53.690 --> 00:26:59.610
I will fully be in prison right now, I'm not gonna lie, because I was never gonna um out a trans student.
00:26:59.769 --> 00:27:02.250
I was never going to stop being myself.
00:27:02.570 --> 00:27:04.810
My children went to my school.
00:27:05.050 --> 00:27:09.690
I once had a principal be like, maybe don't come out, maybe don't come out to your students so quickly.
00:27:09.769 --> 00:27:12.730
And I was like, they're friends with my children.
00:27:12.810 --> 00:27:14.090
Like, what do you want me to do?
00:27:14.250 --> 00:27:15.450
To have my children line?
00:27:15.529 --> 00:27:16.330
That's crazy.
00:27:16.490 --> 00:27:30.170
Um It's part of why I'm in a self-contained class because I genuinely feel that if I was in Gened, I wouldn't have a job right now, but because I'm self-contained, I'm a little more isolated and therefore safer.
00:27:30.570 --> 00:27:31.850
Yep, absolutely.
00:27:32.009 --> 00:27:38.970
And also, I I don't mean this to disrespect your other educators, but you're needed.
00:27:39.769 --> 00:27:42.730
Um, you are so needed, and it is hard.
00:27:42.890 --> 00:27:51.210
It is hard to replace a special education teacher, especially in a self-contained room, because you have to be willing to deal with physical abuse.
00:27:51.289 --> 00:27:54.730
Um, and it's not intentional for the most part.
00:27:54.890 --> 00:27:59.930
You know, sometimes there's the I'm being angry and I'm actually trying to hit you.
00:28:00.410 --> 00:28:17.690
But I I've experienced this working with my students, and I've seen my friend who also works um in special education in South Texas um, you know, have bruises, come home with bruises and sore as heck.
00:28:17.850 --> 00:28:26.250
And I I mean, I've watched a student like full-on slap another student because they were uh angry about the fact that we were done with rehearsal.
00:28:26.410 --> 00:28:27.850
And I'm like, oh, right?
00:28:27.930 --> 00:28:29.769
Like we're doing, we have to do these physical things.
00:28:29.850 --> 00:28:34.730
You have to just restrain students, and when you're restraining students, they are using their full might.
00:28:34.810 --> 00:28:38.650
Like, and these little people are so strong.
00:28:39.210 --> 00:28:49.370
Um and they get you know underestimated because they look small, but they are so, so strong, and it takes a physical and mental toll on you.
00:28:49.610 --> 00:28:53.450
Well, so when they're smart, they just have cognitive communication delays.
00:28:53.529 --> 00:29:01.930
So while the intelligence may not be book smart, they know who doesn't like them, they know when they're safe or not safe, and they respond to those things.
00:29:02.330 --> 00:29:22.570
That part, I was reading uh an article the other day about a mom who like snuck a recording device into a kid's backpack, and she was trying to understand why her autistic son was presenting specific behaviors at school that she'd never see at home, um, according to the educators.
00:29:22.810 --> 00:29:29.850
And there was like a recording of an educator just being like, get away from me, boy, like you get away from me.
00:29:30.009 --> 00:29:34.090
And I'm like, Oh, it's because he knows he's not safe.
00:29:34.330 --> 00:29:35.450
Like, that's why.
00:29:35.529 --> 00:29:39.289
It's because they they don't treat him in a way that's going to make him feel safe.
00:29:39.610 --> 00:29:43.210
Well, and the demands at school are just so different.
00:29:43.610 --> 00:29:46.009
Like, I've got nine kids in my class.
00:29:46.090 --> 00:29:52.490
I was in charge of two YCUP classrooms last year because we weren't able to find a teacher to replace one who got another job.
00:29:52.810 --> 00:30:02.650
Um, we're we're doing independent zones, we're doing work, like we have all these moving parts, and they have to do their job to move on.
00:30:02.810 --> 00:30:17.289
Whereas at home, sometimes they do chores and things like that, but the time frame's not there, or the the type of work is different, and like they're not used to being told no or wait, and they don't have the communication, their processing skills to cope with that.
00:30:17.690 --> 00:30:35.930
And so sometimes just because we're by their kids or by a different place, or we don't have the freedom to just leave when we want to, like, those changes just in an environment cause confusion, upsetness, um, anxiety in our kids, and that is the real world.
00:30:36.009 --> 00:30:46.970
We're trying to get our kids ready to go to a theater class, to go to the restaurant, to go wherever, um, and be safe, but it it means intentionally pushing boundaries.
00:30:47.050 --> 00:30:48.890
We call it um plan sabotage.
00:30:48.970 --> 00:30:54.090
So we make their life harder on purpose so that we can teach them how to cope.
00:30:55.210 --> 00:31:05.210
Yeah, and I think that is amplified with the fact that you're working with younger students too, because there's an emotional aspect for all children that age where their emotions flare up, right?
00:31:05.289 --> 00:31:07.930
They just come and you don't know how to process them.
00:31:08.090 --> 00:31:14.330
But if they're coming and you don't know how to communicate them, that is an extra layer.
00:31:14.570 --> 00:31:20.490
Um, and so again, this kudos to all of the special education teachers out there.
00:31:20.650 --> 00:31:27.050
You don't know how much love I have for you, especially at a time when they're like trying to remove special education services.
00:31:27.210 --> 00:31:29.370
Like the work that you do is so, so important.
00:31:29.529 --> 00:31:36.090
Um, and it's one of the things I think that heals the world because taking care of human beings is what we should be doing.
00:31:36.330 --> 00:31:39.690
All human beings, regardless of their ability.
00:31:39.930 --> 00:31:51.690
And some of the conversation is like it's a centuries-old rhetoric that is coming back, and I'm like, what is wrong with what's happening right now?
00:31:51.769 --> 00:31:57.210
What is wrong with treating people with dignity and respect regardless of who they are?
00:31:57.370 --> 00:31:58.970
Like, I'm so confused.
00:31:59.289 --> 00:31:59.930
Yep.
00:32:00.570 --> 00:32:02.570
So I want to talk a little bit about resources.
00:32:02.730 --> 00:32:06.009
Do you have any resources that you would like to share with folks that you just love?
00:32:06.090 --> 00:32:12.090
It could be personal resources, it could be educational resources, um, but what are your go-to things?
00:32:12.490 --> 00:32:17.130
So, my go-to things is local community resources.
00:32:17.370 --> 00:32:21.210
Wherever that is in your area, I think it is the most important thing to plug into.
00:32:21.769 --> 00:32:29.610
So for the Houston, Katy area, my big go-to is the transparent closet at First Christian Church of Katy.
00:32:29.769 --> 00:32:34.730
Um, it is a free clothing boutique and it's bigger, it's a large space.
00:32:34.970 --> 00:32:49.529
It has four racks of shoes, double-sided, it has dresses, skirts, dress shirts, suits, everything, but it also has binders and packers and tucking underwear and all that is free for the trans community.
00:32:49.769 --> 00:32:58.570
So if you're a teen and exploring gender, or you're 60 and just realized you're able to come out finally and you're transitioning late in life, we have a lot of those actually that come.
00:32:58.890 --> 00:33:04.730
Um, it's a safe place to get gender-affirming items and clothing and support.
00:33:04.970 --> 00:33:06.730
Um love that so much.
00:33:07.130 --> 00:33:10.970
There's we're in multiple states, um, and there's other things like it.
00:33:11.130 --> 00:33:13.930
Grace's place, um, Tony's closet.
00:33:14.090 --> 00:33:18.250
Um, your local area probably has something like it.
00:33:18.810 --> 00:33:22.410
Um, but it just brings me so much joy.
00:33:22.490 --> 00:33:25.289
It's where I found my gender in a really real way.
00:33:25.690 --> 00:33:52.090
Um, and then it's gonna sound corny, but like check out your local prides, and I don't mean like Houston Pride, which like is a good organization, um, but like Katie Pride, Forturn Pride, um, Woodlands Pride, wherever those small counties are in your area, because in the Katy area, they're doing socials every every once a month at they're doing coffee, they're doing karaoke, they're doing things all year long.
00:33:52.730 --> 00:33:54.490
It's not just a parade.
00:33:54.730 --> 00:33:57.850
And so they're doing education advocacy.
00:33:58.090 --> 00:34:14.170
Your local pride is probably gonna be a more grassroots movement to what your area needs, even if it's just a social place to be with other queer people, like the local community groups is where I find the most active support.
00:34:14.809 --> 00:34:16.329
I love that so much.
00:34:16.570 --> 00:34:22.489
Um, as we wrap up, I wanted to ask a little bit about what's bringing you queer joy right now.
00:34:22.889 --> 00:34:26.730
Um, my honest answer is presenting at your conference this October.
00:34:27.050 --> 00:34:30.730
Oh, shout out to the conference, queering education.
00:34:31.449 --> 00:34:39.769
Um, I'm really excited to talk about why special education is the safest place for teachers and the place to support the most queer students.
00:34:39.930 --> 00:34:41.849
Um I'm really excited.
00:34:42.090 --> 00:34:45.289
Um little tinge of here.
00:34:45.450 --> 00:34:49.690
Um I just got accepted to um a grad school program.
00:34:50.170 --> 00:34:53.690
Um I am looking at a career change because of how unsafe things are.
00:34:53.849 --> 00:34:59.769
Um it's not gonna be tomorrow by any stretch, it's gonna be you know be three or four years, but I need a plan B.
00:35:00.010 --> 00:35:02.650
Um, but I'm excited that I've gotten into that.
00:35:03.130 --> 00:35:10.409
Um I'm going to a girls' night tomorrow, and I'm gonna get to get to dress more high femme and just be with my people.
00:35:10.490 --> 00:35:17.289
And I just, you know, again, those local small things you can do to find yourself and just be safe with whoever you are.
00:35:17.369 --> 00:35:19.530
It just makes me so happy.
00:35:19.849 --> 00:35:20.889
Absolutely.
00:35:21.130 --> 00:35:28.809
And as we wrap up, my last question for you is what do you think queer educators need to hear right now in this moment?
00:35:29.610 --> 00:35:34.090
As much as it means to us as teachers, it's a lot of our identity in a way.
00:35:34.250 --> 00:35:35.769
It's just a job.
00:35:36.010 --> 00:35:45.450
Leave it at work, enjoy your personal life at home, um, set firm boundaries on your time and make sure that we make space for the things that bring us joy and fill our cups.
00:35:45.690 --> 00:35:47.930
If it's your work friends, awesome.
00:35:48.090 --> 00:35:51.369
But it shouldn't be grading papers at 9 o'clock on a Tuesday.
00:35:54.970 --> 00:35:57.769
Thank you for being a part of Queering Education.
00:35:57.930 --> 00:36:00.329
This is a Teaching Well Queer podcast.
00:36:00.490 --> 00:36:05.530
Take what you need from this conversation and bring it back into your classroom and your students.
00:36:05.690 --> 00:36:07.130
I'm Brian Stanton.
00:36:07.289 --> 00:36:10.170
Until next time, keep showing up.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.280
Three teachers reported me to admin for breaking district policy.
00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:08.960
Like, there aren't kids here.
00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:18.559
Welcome to Queering Education, where we challenge what school is and build what it should be.
00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:20.079
I'm Brian Stanton.
00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:28.239
This is a Teaching While Queer podcast about inclusive teaching, queer pedagogy, and showing up authentically in every classroom.
00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:30.719
Alright, let's do the work.
00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:41.359
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode of Queering Education, a Teaching While Queer podcast.
00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:43.280
I have your host, Brian Stanton.
00:00:43.359 --> 00:00:44.399
My pronouns are they, them.
00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:48.479
And today I have the privilege of speaking with Alex Holford.
00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:49.759
How are you doing, Alex?
00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:50.719
I'm doing well.
00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:52.240
My pronouns are also they them.
00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:53.520
Oh, sweet.
00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:54.079
Welcome.
00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:56.479
And can you tell us more about yourself?
00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:02.799
Um, yeah, so I'm a special education teacher who's been teaching for 15 years.
00:01:03.119 --> 00:01:05.840
11 of those have been in the self-contained classroom.
00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:15.840
Um, I also realized three, four years ago that I was non-binary, um, and so been navigating that new world um and kind of jumped in headfirst.
00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:27.760
Um, I was a founder for KD Pride, I do a queer support group, I do a trans support group, and I um help the Transparent Closet, which gives free clothes to trans kids.
00:01:28.079 --> 00:01:29.200
I love that so much.
00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.319
I uh I started this podcast in San Antonio.
00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:41.280
Um, so I'm very familiar with your area because I've I've been around um back and forth for different events and conferences and visits with family.
00:01:41.439 --> 00:01:47.200
Um and I I appreciate one of two things.
00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:49.760
Uh I will appreciate you in multiple realms.
00:01:49.840 --> 00:01:51.439
I appreciate people in multiple realms.
00:01:51.599 --> 00:02:06.079
Um, but one that you're doing the work on uh on identity and like understanding yourself even in environments that are not necessarily safe for that, and two, that you're doing it in a way that is visible.
00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:10.000
Um, because I definitely experienced some of that.
00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:25.439
I started my non-binary journey, um, or my I call it my gender expression journey uh while I was in Texas, um, and definitely have been the the receiving end of some side eye.
00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:27.439
Not that that changed when I moved to New York City.
00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:32.159
I still get side eye, but um there's something about blue hair.
00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:33.680
People are like, what?
00:02:34.240 --> 00:02:35.280
What are you doing?
00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:36.879
I'm like, I'm looking fabulous.
00:02:36.960 --> 00:02:37.680
What's your problem?
00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:42.319
Um tell my friends that this hair isn't for me, it's for others.
00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:47.360
Um, because it's a visual signifier to the community that I'm a non-binary person.
00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:51.919
Um if you know, you know, but if you don't, it's just is a weird haircut.
00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:56.400
Yeah, I fully appreciate that and understand.
00:02:56.479 --> 00:03:04.080
I do there are specific things that I do um to wear my gender expression.
00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:07.439
Um and you know, Judith Butler, sorry, I'm a nerd.
00:03:07.599 --> 00:03:14.240
Judith Butler would say that it would be a perform performing gender, which I think is quite true that we all do that.
00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:25.280
Um and so I do a lot of performing gender neutral and gender non-binary for other people's sake because it really doesn't impact my identity.
00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:30.319
But I do get to understand my comfortability with masculinity and femininity by doing so.
00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:37.360
Um, and understand where like they're not hard lines, but things that I'm less comfortable with as just an expression of myself.
00:03:37.439 --> 00:03:39.520
Um what brings you joy and what doesn't.
00:03:39.840 --> 00:03:40.400
Exactly that.
00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:41.520
What sparks joy?
00:03:41.599 --> 00:03:42.879
Okay, Marie Kondo.
00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:55.680
Um so let's talk a little bit about what got you into education and specifically special education, because it really takes a wonderful like person to be in a special education classroom.
00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:07.039
Some of my favorite classes I've taught as a theater educator were specifically with our students from the self-contained room that actually they would venture out for my class for the elective.
00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:20.240
Um, and I loved it so much, and there's some of my fondest educational memories is working with uh with my students in what we called unified theater, which was an extension of the Special Special Olympics.
00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:24.079
Um, so how did you find yourself on that path?
00:04:24.399 --> 00:04:30.240
So when I was in first grade, I wanted to be a dinosaur, and I was in second grade, I wanted to be a teacher.
00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:35.519
Well, and from second grade, I knew I was gonna teach from that point on.
00:04:35.680 --> 00:04:38.240
Um, my entire family are band directors.
00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:43.360
Um, I've been steeped in education, um, and knew that world wasn't for me.
00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:49.040
Um, but my grandparents lived in Mexico, and so I actually went to school for bilingual education.
00:04:49.360 --> 00:05:05.199
Um and my last semester before student teaching, we did a block class, and I selected special education, and I got put in a life schools class, which is a self-contained classroom, and I was like, oh, I need this, I need this every day.
00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:08.160
This is what I want from now on forever.
00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:18.319
Um, and so I graduated and I started teaching in second grade and I got my SED certification and I moved and I was a kind of rocky process to get where I wanted to be.
00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:30.560
But once I got in self-contained, I started with the littles, um, three to six year olds, and then life skills um first grade through fifth grade, and then now I'm actually in um what's called YCAP.
00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:50.560
It's an autism program, and so my students are mostly aggressive, high behavior, low communication students, and we're teaching them the skills to cope and communicate so that they can go to theater in junior high and high school um without hurting themselves or others just from the obwomeness of it all.
00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:52.240
I love that so much.
00:05:52.319 --> 00:06:16.240
Um, I also think that being bilingual is an asset in working in special education, especially in Texas, and I'm assuming in other border states um with near Mexico, because quite a few of my students um couldn't communicate in English, and the I the um the process of like ESL was relatively difficult, right?
00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:24.079
And so the the educators who were able to communicate with them in Spanish actually found a lot of uh a progress.
00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:39.839
And so I think that um that's something that people don't necessarily consider when they're thinking about um folks with uh disabilities, is that there is intersectionality in the within their identities also and within their experiences.
00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:42.639
I mean, it's definitely helped some of my kids.
00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:49.680
Um it's helped my parents more because I can talk to them a little bit easier sometimes.
00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:55.199
Um, but for self-contained people don't understand too, is like I rely on other people.
00:06:55.360 --> 00:07:13.680
I have a team of eight people that work with me in two different classrooms, and they're lawyers and engineers in Venezuela and Venezuela, they have master's degrees, and here they're a pair that's getting minimum wage and trying to get their degree validated by this by the country.
00:07:13.920 --> 00:07:23.600
And so their English may not be to my English, but my Spanish is not to their Spanish, and you know, it's been very helpful and it's helped me speak more Spanish in my work environment.
00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:33.279
Um, I mean, the kids for sure, but everyone around your school, especially Texas, is gonna have other languages um that we need to be aware of and respectful for.
00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:34.639
Yeah, absolutely.
00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:51.600
And I think that um what you just said is a huge uh mark of a problem with the education department at the moment, is the um refusal to recognize expertise from other countries as if getting a doctorate in another country is somehow lesser.
00:07:51.759 --> 00:08:10.879
Um I actually have a friend, she has an educational doctorate from Oxford University in the UK, and in New York City or New York State is having trouble with them recognizing her doctorate as a full uh doctoral experience because it's shorter in the UK.
00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:17.759
It's not a five-year program like it is uh in the US, and I'm like, that's fiscally responsible, man.
00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:20.319
Um but like it's Oxford.
00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:20.879
It's Oxford.
00:08:21.199 --> 00:08:23.199
I know it's what you do in university.
00:08:23.360 --> 00:08:24.399
I'm so confused.
00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:30.879
It's like the one of the most prestigious when I think of like um universities in the UK.
00:08:31.199 --> 00:08:34.080
It is like the first one that pops into my brain.
00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:37.759
It's like Oxford and Cambridge, and that is that's my knowledge.
00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:44.080
That's the extent of what I've got, other than some of the universities that people work at that I've spoken with on the podcast.
00:08:44.320 --> 00:09:10.720
So I think that our education department, hopefully under future management one day, will need to assess what why there is this inferior inferiority complex when it comes to outside um degree programs, because I really I've looked at some degrees that are based in Mexico because I wanted to um expand also on my language acquisition.
00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:30.480
Um, and while the program is in English uh and it's virtual, in order for it to be accepted here as a doctorate when you're going to like work at a university or whatnot, there's a whole years-long route that you have to take for it to be validated, and I just find that wild.
00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:40.960
Um, we've never talked about this on the podcast, so thanks for bringing that up because it is as uh it is a problem that needs to be addressed.
00:09:42.080 --> 00:09:51.120
So I'm curious how your queerness um shows up in your work in education.
00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:54.639
Um so a lot of it's appearance.
00:09:54.799 --> 00:10:00.080
Again, my kids are nonverbal mostly low communication, they're not worried about pronouns in my classroom.
00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:06.320
Um I tell them to call me age, but I get called all sorts of things by my kids when they can communicate.
00:10:06.559 --> 00:10:12.000
Um, but I'm pres I'm around the school, and so I wear a lot of rainbow shirts.
00:10:12.159 --> 00:10:18.399
I my lanyard is a non-binary flag, and the lanyard holder is a non-binary flag, and it's intentional.
00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:34.080
Um, Katie has some really strict um anti-trans litigation and policies, and so I can't tell anyone at work my pronouns um as Holdford, as teacher Holdford.
00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:36.320
I can say, hey, call me H.
00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:40.159
I can talk to any private one-on-one conversation I want to have.
00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:46.240
Um, but I can't like say, hey, all my parents, you know, here's my pronouns, please use them.
00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:47.679
I I can't do that.
00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:54.080
Um what I can do that's not against policy is get a tattoo that says they them.
00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:08.639
Um and so when I give handshakes and I'm around their kids and my language is a non-binary and it they can see it on my wrist because I'm wearing short sleeves all the time, I'm presenting myself in a way that is queer.
00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:10.000
I'm not wearing skirts to work.
00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:12.320
Even if I was a ciswoman, I wouldn't wear skirts to work.
00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:13.679
My kids go under them.
00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:17.360
Um, my females in my team are not wearing skirts to work.
00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:24.000
Um, but I try to find clothes that are more affirming to me, um, be a lot as I can.
00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:27.600
And the parents who are supportive show up.
00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:28.799
Um, oh my god.
00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:37.360
One of my parents um bought me nail polish for my birthday and I almost cried because it was just so affirming.
00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:44.159
Um and some, you know, blatantly ignore it, but it's never been an issue with my parents.
00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:45.679
But they know.
00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:46.399
I love that.
00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:54.960
I it's so interesting as someone who had worked in Texas um also that I never experienced a lot of problems from my parents.
00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:58.000
Not my parents from my program.
00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:05.759
Um there was always a lot of conversation from people who had nothing to do with me from the outside looking in.
00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:20.720
And then when I left the first school that I was teaching at, all of a sudden, since the rainbow flag bearer was no longer there, they like did a complete 180 and were like, no rainbows in the classroom unless it's a specifically sanctioned like club or organization.
00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:25.120
So I had teachers being like, send me the logo for the the saga club.
00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:30.080
Uh, we need to make mask shirts immediately because we're not allowed to have safe space up anymore.
00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:36.159
We're not allowed to have the Trevor Project emergency line, crisis lifeline on the phone on the wall anymore.
00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:38.559
We're not allowed to do these things that are specific.
00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:43.679
And it and I I get frustrated because there are two things that would have happened.
00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:46.960
If I would have stayed, I would have been fired, possibly arrested.
00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:58.799
Um or two, the other option is that they wouldn't have done it because they wouldn't, I would have been too vocal of a person to fight against.
00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:00.080
I was their teacher of the year.
00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:09.279
I was the teacher of the year when when I um when I left, and it wasn't until two years after the state law was impacted.
00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:10.159
But I saw it.
00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:15.039
It happened in small spaces, it happened in school board meetings, right?
00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:27.840
And it's like I love this because um my experience was TEA, Texas Educational Association, had a training that we had to do about pronouns.
00:13:28.799 --> 00:13:39.200
And then we did the work with pronouns the next school year, and then all of the parents, like all of these conservative parents started throwing a fit about pronouns being used.
00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:49.120
Um meanwhile, like we were told by Texas Education Association to do this training, and it's like the people who were running it did not know it existed.
00:13:49.440 --> 00:13:59.279
Um and and so all of this started to ripple into other things that have drastically changed the environment of the state.
00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:10.080
And I actively right now am helping educators who are either queer or have queer children find jobs in other states and figure out reciprocity.
00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:30.159
One of the resources on the Teaching While Queer website is a link to teacher certification reciprocity and how you can take your certification in your state and what states you can go to with it, because there have been such drastic changes, especially in southern states, that feel dangerous.
00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:33.360
It's not just like don't ask, don't tell.
00:14:33.519 --> 00:14:40.320
It's like if we even have an inkling or if someone says which, we're gonna burn you.
00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:43.279
Um as Lohan, as long as no one talks, it's fine.
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:45.440
But the second someone says something, it's over.
00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:46.799
Yeah, absolutely.
00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:50.559
And it's funny because when I was leaving, I was a theater educator, right, in San Antonio.
00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:54.480
When I was leaving, Katie was in the news because they had just passed something.
00:14:54.799 --> 00:15:18.879
Um TEA had made some sanction about like drag, uh, or a law had had existed about or was being debated about drag performances for children, and Katie pulled a production of uh a touring production of James and the Giant Peach because a male presenting actor was going to play Miss Spider.
00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:31.360
A male presenting human being was going to play a spider that was female presenting, and so they pulled the performance from coming to their elementary school, and I'm like, it's James and the Giant Peach.
00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:40.080
Yeah, like of all things roll doll is not like the epitome of like PC.
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:48.159
Like he had his own flaws when he was alive, and some of the stuff that he did were problematic.
00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:54.879
So the fact that you're like, I'm gonna pull roll doll because of an actor is insane.
00:15:55.039 --> 00:16:00.960
And when that happened, I turned to the theater education associations and I was like, this is gonna become a problem for you.
00:16:01.039 --> 00:16:15.600
You're not gonna be able to use um the plethora of girl students that a high school program will have in your in your productions in paint roles or in mail roles because people are gonna throw a fit, I'm just preparing you, and they're like, no, no.
00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:19.679
The legislator says this will not affect educational theater.
00:16:20.879 --> 00:16:21.440
It did.
00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:22.159
It did.
00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:23.120
It did.
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:23.840
Yeah.
00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:31.440
Um gosh, it's such a such an interesting, we're living through such an interesting timeline.
00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:32.559
Could we not?
00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:33.919
Can what?
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:38.480
Could we not absolutely reset, please?
00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:40.720
Where's um Doctor Strange?
00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:43.440
Um to rewind things.
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:58.320
Um I want to talk a little bit about what it was like for you to start your your gender expression journey and and doing that in the educational field, especially, you know, in Texas.
00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:08.799
Yeah, so um ironically, KDS ISD is what helped me realize my gender identity.
00:17:09.599 --> 00:17:15.359
Um so I was going to this church and we did a fashion show, and I did some gender non-conforming looks.
00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:21.279
Um and I wore skirts for the fashion show for the first time from the Transparent Closet, an amazing organization.
00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:23.039
I'll talk about a little bit later.
00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:28.400
Um and I was like, okay, you know, I think maybe like a they, he or he, they.
00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:31.119
I'm gonna start trying with some friends.
00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:37.119
Um you know, but like I'll never be they then because I'm gonna have to be he at work, and it's fine.
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:44.480
Um, you know, I can just be they, he, and I can be they with my friend group and he at work or other places, and I'm not gonna that's that's fine.
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:50.160
Um and then KDSD did a gender policy, and I was like, no, this sucks.
00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:51.680
This sucks.
00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:57.920
Um and if I if they're saying I can't be they anywhere, then I'm just then that's it.
00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:00.000
Like we're gonna try that for a little bit.
00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:07.200
Um and I tried it on like a pair of pants, and they fit really good, um, and brought me a lot of joy.
00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:20.160
And so I was fortunate enough to have um we had a a staff meeting um about this and what we could and couldn't say and how she didn't want to have this meeting, but she had to have this meeting, and yada yada.
00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:25.519
Um and so I went to her and I was like, look, I'm non-binary, this is affecting me.
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:28.640
Like, this is the district saying they don't want me to exist.
00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.200
Um I'm really upset, like I want to quit teaching.
00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:35.440
And she was really supportive.
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:38.559
Um, and they took steps that year.
00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:40.319
Um, they took Mr.
00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:41.599
off of my box, they took Mr.
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:43.119
off of my wall.
00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:50.720
Um, you know, they couldn't correct anybody, they couldn't do certain things, but they worked to be gender neutral around me.
00:18:50.960 --> 00:19:00.799
Um, and it was really affirming, and I was really lucky, and then as policies have changed and changed from the state level, that's kind of um been reduced.
00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:07.119
Um, but I've always wanted to explore femininity, and it never felt super safe.
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:12.319
And once I realized that it just wasn't safe at all, then I kind of stopped caring.
00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:17.519
If there was no safe way to explore, then dive in.
00:19:17.680 --> 00:19:20.960
So I started painting my nails, um, which aren't painted today.
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:22.160
I'm annoyed about it.
00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:26.400
Um, I tried some different hairstyles, I started looking into the things.
00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:30.559
Um, my wardrobe already had a lot of bright colors in it, so that didn't change too much.
00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:36.400
But I tried some women's pants that had different colors or fit differently, and it's just subtle things.
00:19:36.559 --> 00:20:05.200
And um one thing I did is I started putting non-binary stickers on my coffee cups because they have dress code policies and things like that, but they don't have um policies regarding personal goods like coffee cups, and just finding the ways that I could push that expression um with my team and myself to just be more comfortable and not hide who I am.
00:20:36.730 --> 00:20:41.529
Yeah, I think that's fantastic, and I also think about being subversive in interesting ways.
00:20:41.690 --> 00:20:50.650
For instance, I'm going to teach at a conference later on today, and I have this outfit that I got for the Pride Day at the middle school that I was teaching at last year.
00:20:50.810 --> 00:21:01.370
Um, and our middle school had class in June, so we had our like we had Pride Month and we had specific Pride Day where it was like wear bright colors or whatever.
00:21:01.529 --> 00:21:06.009
So I chose to color block uh the genderqueer flag.
00:21:06.090 --> 00:21:09.450
Uh and so I have a purple purple shirt on.
00:21:09.610 --> 00:21:15.850
For those of you who are listening, I have a purple shirt on, I have a white belt, and my shirt is tucked in, I have a white belt and I have green pants.
00:21:16.009 --> 00:21:19.050
Um, so I am effectively the genderqueer flag.
00:21:19.210 --> 00:21:35.690
And I also have done the same thing with a non-binary flag where I have a yellow shirt and then purple and uh white and black, and I will layer myself in a way that is blatant but subversive.
00:21:36.009 --> 00:21:38.970
Um because you have to know to know.
00:21:39.850 --> 00:21:47.610
Uh, and what I love about uh the non-binary sticker that you just brought up is that it's a sticker of a figure, right?
00:21:47.690 --> 00:21:52.410
It's a cartoon, but it's color blocked with the non-binary flag on it.
00:21:52.570 --> 00:22:05.850
So again, it's done in a way where you have to know to know, and so it's a signal, it's important for the people who are in the community, for the people who are exploring the community.
00:22:06.090 --> 00:22:08.890
And children, especially children, they do.
00:22:09.050 --> 00:22:13.289
I had fifth graders telling me about their flags because we had all the flags up, right?
00:22:13.370 --> 00:22:16.890
Um, all the queer pride flags in the the school.
00:22:16.970 --> 00:22:18.570
And I had fifth graders being like, Mr.
00:22:18.650 --> 00:22:20.570
Stanton, can I show you my flag?
00:22:20.810 --> 00:22:21.850
And I was like, sure.
00:22:22.009 --> 00:22:24.890
And they walked over to the lesbian flag and they were like, This is my flag.
00:22:25.050 --> 00:22:26.890
And I was like, sick, love that for you.
00:22:27.050 --> 00:22:29.529
And I walked over to my flag and I was like, This is my flag.
00:22:29.690 --> 00:22:36.330
Um And they observe and they are more aware than we ever were at their age.
00:22:36.490 --> 00:22:36.810
Oh my god.
00:22:37.050 --> 00:22:40.730
So if we have those subtle hints, it's enough.
00:22:40.890 --> 00:22:41.610
It is enough.
00:22:41.769 --> 00:22:44.330
It doesn't have to necessarily be loud and proud.
00:22:44.490 --> 00:22:49.130
It can be a sticker that is a cartoon that has the colors in them.
00:22:49.450 --> 00:22:50.090
Yeah.
00:22:50.490 --> 00:22:53.529
Um, I did get in trouble one day for it.
00:22:53.769 --> 00:22:55.289
Um, it was an in-service day.
00:22:55.370 --> 00:22:56.730
There were no kids on campus.
00:22:57.529 --> 00:22:59.050
An in-service day, are you kidding me?
00:22:59.450 --> 00:23:00.490
An in-service day.
00:23:00.650 --> 00:23:07.050
And I it was the first day of in-service, and I wore a t-shirt where the top half was they and the bottom half was them.
00:23:08.250 --> 00:23:14.890
And three teachers reported me to admin for breaking district policy.
00:23:15.210 --> 00:23:17.370
And a week later I got pulled in.
00:23:17.850 --> 00:23:20.650
Um and the lawyers got notified.
00:23:20.810 --> 00:23:22.730
HR got notified, they're trying to figure out how to handle it.
00:23:22.810 --> 00:23:23.850
Did I break it?
00:23:24.090 --> 00:23:26.650
And I asked for a copy of the policy, I didn't get it.
00:23:26.810 --> 00:23:31.610
Um, I decided not to push it, and because I was like, honestly at that point, word for my job.
00:23:31.769 --> 00:23:32.090
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:32.330 --> 00:23:34.490
I was like, I I'm wearing a t-shirt.
00:23:34.650 --> 00:23:42.330
Like, you three people, more people have a church shirt or church quote or whatever, but I can't wear two words on my shirt and a graphic tee.
00:23:42.410 --> 00:23:44.490
Like, there aren't kids here.
00:23:44.570 --> 00:23:48.650
If their kids were here, you'd have a really strong case for a breaking policy.
00:23:48.890 --> 00:23:54.090
Um, but like the policies about teaching children pronouns exist.
00:23:54.490 --> 00:23:56.170
They know they exist, they do.
00:23:56.410 --> 00:24:00.810
Um but or about telling someone to call you something.
00:24:00.970 --> 00:24:01.370
I didn't do that.
00:24:01.450 --> 00:24:03.370
I didn't have it, it was just a shirt.
00:24:04.090 --> 00:24:09.930
It was just a shirt on a day where it was just adults, and I think that right there is wild.
00:24:10.090 --> 00:24:21.370
And that's where people are messing up with policy right now, is because nothing is clear, nothing is definitively written in a way that says do this or that.
00:24:21.450 --> 00:24:30.890
It's up for interpretation, and that's when school districts bring in the lawyers, and then the lawyers interpret the law when that's really not their job.
00:24:31.370 --> 00:24:36.250
Yeah, it's the job of judges and legislators to like provide guidance.
00:24:36.410 --> 00:24:46.890
Um, but they're so afraid to say the quiet things out loud that they create vagueness in an effort to have people self-police.
00:24:47.529 --> 00:24:49.450
And that's where these things come into play.
00:24:49.529 --> 00:24:54.650
Because I think back to we had dress codes, but we had dress codes for when students were in the building.
00:24:54.810 --> 00:24:58.570
We didn't have dress codes for the days that we were just there on our own.
00:24:58.730 --> 00:25:12.410
ICO wears shorts, and uh and plenty of educators wear shorts and like tank tops on on days for in-service, especially because in Texas it's still 100 degrees when you start going back to school.
00:25:12.650 --> 00:25:26.810
And so I am so curious how they can try to balance those things where it's like the clothing don't matter on doesn't matter on these days, and also the clothing matters on these days.
00:25:27.130 --> 00:25:28.009
And matters all the time.
00:25:29.930 --> 00:25:30.570
Yeah.
00:25:30.890 --> 00:25:38.810
They tried to quote a library policy about not having books with numbering characters, that would then apply to my shirt.
00:25:40.090 --> 00:25:43.130
Did you say that you were where you're like, I'm not a character?
00:25:43.769 --> 00:25:54.250
Also, that's for the kids, that's policing what books the kids can check out, not you know, that's it's still about children in that aspect.
00:25:54.970 --> 00:25:56.810
All of those laws are about children.
00:25:57.130 --> 00:25:57.529
Yeah.
00:25:57.769 --> 00:26:06.170
Um actually, Texas now has some about what teachers can and cannot say, even to parents or other teachers, um, regarding their pronouns.
00:26:06.490 --> 00:26:16.330
Yeah, I have a friend who still teaches, he is uh near Austin in Kyle, and so he um Hazy I think he sends me updates.
00:26:16.810 --> 00:26:20.490
He he sends me updates, and I'm like, gosh.
00:26:20.730 --> 00:26:25.769
Um I saw this coming, which is part of the reason that my husband and I left.
00:26:25.930 --> 00:26:37.210
We came here for a conference where I was talking about teaching while queer, and the educators at the conference were like, We are unfamiliar with what you're talking about.
00:26:37.450 --> 00:26:44.009
Like, even in the conservative areas of upstate New York, they were like, We've never experienced anything like you're talking about.
00:26:44.170 --> 00:26:48.330
And I'm like, wow, that must be nice.
00:26:48.650 --> 00:26:53.529
Um, and then we left right before the legislation started changing.
00:26:53.690 --> 00:26:59.610
I will fully be in prison right now, I'm not gonna lie, because I was never gonna um out a trans student.
00:26:59.769 --> 00:27:02.250
I was never going to stop being myself.
00:27:02.570 --> 00:27:04.810
My children went to my school.
00:27:05.050 --> 00:27:09.690
I once had a principal be like, maybe don't come out, maybe don't come out to your students so quickly.
00:27:09.769 --> 00:27:12.730
And I was like, they're friends with my children.
00:27:12.810 --> 00:27:14.090
Like, what do you want me to do?
00:27:14.250 --> 00:27:15.450
To have my children line?
00:27:15.529 --> 00:27:16.330
That's crazy.
00:27:16.490 --> 00:27:30.170
Um It's part of why I'm in a self-contained class because I genuinely feel that if I was in Gened, I wouldn't have a job right now, but because I'm self-contained, I'm a little more isolated and therefore safer.
00:27:30.570 --> 00:27:31.850
Yep, absolutely.
00:27:32.009 --> 00:27:38.970
And also, I I don't mean this to disrespect your other educators, but you're needed.
00:27:39.769 --> 00:27:42.730
Um, you are so needed, and it is hard.
00:27:42.890 --> 00:27:51.210
It is hard to replace a special education teacher, especially in a self-contained room, because you have to be willing to deal with physical abuse.
00:27:51.289 --> 00:27:54.730
Um, and it's not intentional for the most part.
00:27:54.890 --> 00:27:59.930
You know, sometimes there's the I'm being angry and I'm actually trying to hit you.
00:28:00.410 --> 00:28:17.690
But I I've experienced this working with my students, and I've seen my friend who also works um in special education in South Texas um, you know, have bruises, come home with bruises and sore as heck.
00:28:17.850 --> 00:28:26.250
And I I mean, I've watched a student like full-on slap another student because they were uh angry about the fact that we were done with rehearsal.
00:28:26.410 --> 00:28:27.850
And I'm like, oh, right?
00:28:27.930 --> 00:28:29.769
Like we're doing, we have to do these physical things.
00:28:29.850 --> 00:28:34.730
You have to just restrain students, and when you're restraining students, they are using their full might.
00:28:34.810 --> 00:28:38.650
Like, and these little people are so strong.
00:28:39.210 --> 00:28:49.370
Um and they get you know underestimated because they look small, but they are so, so strong, and it takes a physical and mental toll on you.
00:28:49.610 --> 00:28:53.450
Well, so when they're smart, they just have cognitive communication delays.
00:28:53.529 --> 00:29:01.930
So while the intelligence may not be book smart, they know who doesn't like them, they know when they're safe or not safe, and they respond to those things.
00:29:02.330 --> 00:29:22.570
That part, I was reading uh an article the other day about a mom who like snuck a recording device into a kid's backpack, and she was trying to understand why her autistic son was presenting specific behaviors at school that she'd never see at home, um, according to the educators.
00:29:22.810 --> 00:29:29.850
And there was like a recording of an educator just being like, get away from me, boy, like you get away from me.
00:29:30.009 --> 00:29:34.090
And I'm like, Oh, it's because he knows he's not safe.
00:29:34.330 --> 00:29:35.450
Like, that's why.
00:29:35.529 --> 00:29:39.289
It's because they they don't treat him in a way that's going to make him feel safe.
00:29:39.610 --> 00:29:43.210
Well, and the demands at school are just so different.
00:29:43.610 --> 00:29:46.009
Like, I've got nine kids in my class.
00:29:46.090 --> 00:29:52.490
I was in charge of two YCUP classrooms last year because we weren't able to find a teacher to replace one who got another job.
00:29:52.810 --> 00:30:02.650
Um, we're we're doing independent zones, we're doing work, like we have all these moving parts, and they have to do their job to move on.
00:30:02.810 --> 00:30:17.289
Whereas at home, sometimes they do chores and things like that, but the time frame's not there, or the the type of work is different, and like they're not used to being told no or wait, and they don't have the communication, their processing skills to cope with that.
00:30:17.690 --> 00:30:35.930
And so sometimes just because we're by their kids or by a different place, or we don't have the freedom to just leave when we want to, like, those changes just in an environment cause confusion, upsetness, um, anxiety in our kids, and that is the real world.
00:30:36.009 --> 00:30:46.970
We're trying to get our kids ready to go to a theater class, to go to the restaurant, to go wherever, um, and be safe, but it it means intentionally pushing boundaries.
00:30:47.050 --> 00:30:48.890
We call it um plan sabotage.
00:30:48.970 --> 00:30:54.090
So we make their life harder on purpose so that we can teach them how to cope.
00:30:55.210 --> 00:31:05.210
Yeah, and I think that is amplified with the fact that you're working with younger students too, because there's an emotional aspect for all children that age where their emotions flare up, right?
00:31:05.289 --> 00:31:07.930
They just come and you don't know how to process them.
00:31:08.090 --> 00:31:14.330
But if they're coming and you don't know how to communicate them, that is an extra layer.
00:31:14.570 --> 00:31:20.490
Um, and so again, this kudos to all of the special education teachers out there.
00:31:20.650 --> 00:31:27.050
You don't know how much love I have for you, especially at a time when they're like trying to remove special education services.
00:31:27.210 --> 00:31:29.370
Like the work that you do is so, so important.
00:31:29.529 --> 00:31:36.090
Um, and it's one of the things I think that heals the world because taking care of human beings is what we should be doing.
00:31:36.330 --> 00:31:39.690
All human beings, regardless of their ability.
00:31:39.930 --> 00:31:51.690
And some of the conversation is like it's a centuries-old rhetoric that is coming back, and I'm like, what is wrong with what's happening right now?
00:31:51.769 --> 00:31:57.210
What is wrong with treating people with dignity and respect regardless of who they are?
00:31:57.370 --> 00:31:58.970
Like, I'm so confused.
00:31:59.289 --> 00:31:59.930
Yep.
00:32:00.570 --> 00:32:02.570
So I want to talk a little bit about resources.
00:32:02.730 --> 00:32:06.009
Do you have any resources that you would like to share with folks that you just love?
00:32:06.090 --> 00:32:12.090
It could be personal resources, it could be educational resources, um, but what are your go-to things?
00:32:12.490 --> 00:32:17.130
So, my go-to things is local community resources.
00:32:17.370 --> 00:32:21.210
Wherever that is in your area, I think it is the most important thing to plug into.
00:32:21.769 --> 00:32:29.610
So for the Houston, Katy area, my big go-to is the transparent closet at First Christian Church of Katy.
00:32:29.769 --> 00:32:34.730
Um, it is a free clothing boutique and it's bigger, it's a large space.
00:32:34.970 --> 00:32:49.529
It has four racks of shoes, double-sided, it has dresses, skirts, dress shirts, suits, everything, but it also has binders and packers and tucking underwear and all that is free for the trans community.
00:32:49.769 --> 00:32:58.570
So if you're a teen and exploring gender, or you're 60 and just realized you're able to come out finally and you're transitioning late in life, we have a lot of those actually that come.
00:32:58.890 --> 00:33:04.730
Um, it's a safe place to get gender-affirming items and clothing and support.
00:33:04.970 --> 00:33:06.730
Um love that so much.
00:33:07.130 --> 00:33:10.970
There's we're in multiple states, um, and there's other things like it.
00:33:11.130 --> 00:33:13.930
Grace's place, um, Tony's closet.
00:33:14.090 --> 00:33:18.250
Um, your local area probably has something like it.
00:33:18.810 --> 00:33:22.410
Um, but it just brings me so much joy.
00:33:22.490 --> 00:33:25.289
It's where I found my gender in a really real way.
00:33:25.690 --> 00:33:52.090
Um, and then it's gonna sound corny, but like check out your local prides, and I don't mean like Houston Pride, which like is a good organization, um, but like Katie Pride, Forturn Pride, um, Woodlands Pride, wherever those small counties are in your area, because in the Katy area, they're doing socials every every once a month at they're doing coffee, they're doing karaoke, they're doing things all year long.
00:33:52.730 --> 00:33:54.490
It's not just a parade.
00:33:54.730 --> 00:33:57.850
And so they're doing education advocacy.
00:33:58.090 --> 00:34:14.170
Your local pride is probably gonna be a more grassroots movement to what your area needs, even if it's just a social place to be with other queer people, like the local community groups is where I find the most active support.
00:34:14.809 --> 00:34:16.329
I love that so much.
00:34:16.570 --> 00:34:22.489
Um, as we wrap up, I wanted to ask a little bit about what's bringing you queer joy right now.
00:34:22.889 --> 00:34:26.730
Um, my honest answer is presenting at your conference this October.
00:34:27.050 --> 00:34:30.730
Oh, shout out to the conference, queering education.
00:34:31.449 --> 00:34:39.769
Um, I'm really excited to talk about why special education is the safest place for teachers and the place to support the most queer students.
00:34:39.930 --> 00:34:41.849
Um I'm really excited.
00:34:42.090 --> 00:34:45.289
Um little tinge of here.
00:34:45.450 --> 00:34:49.690
Um I just got accepted to um a grad school program.
00:34:50.170 --> 00:34:53.690
Um I am looking at a career change because of how unsafe things are.
00:34:53.849 --> 00:34:59.769
Um it's not gonna be tomorrow by any stretch, it's gonna be you know be three or four years, but I need a plan B.
00:35:00.010 --> 00:35:02.650
Um, but I'm excited that I've gotten into that.
00:35:03.130 --> 00:35:10.409
Um I'm going to a girls' night tomorrow, and I'm gonna get to get to dress more high femme and just be with my people.
00:35:10.490 --> 00:35:17.289
And I just, you know, again, those local small things you can do to find yourself and just be safe with whoever you are.
00:35:17.369 --> 00:35:19.530
It just makes me so happy.
00:35:19.849 --> 00:35:20.889
Absolutely.
00:35:21.130 --> 00:35:28.809
And as we wrap up, my last question for you is what do you think queer educators need to hear right now in this moment?
00:35:29.610 --> 00:35:34.090
As much as it means to us as teachers, it's a lot of our identity in a way.
00:35:34.250 --> 00:35:35.769
It's just a job.
00:35:36.010 --> 00:35:45.450
Leave it at work, enjoy your personal life at home, um, set firm boundaries on your time and make sure that we make space for the things that bring us joy and fill our cups.
00:35:45.690 --> 00:35:47.930
If it's your work friends, awesome.
00:35:48.090 --> 00:35:51.369
But it shouldn't be grading papers at 9 o'clock on a Tuesday.
00:35:54.970 --> 00:35:57.769
Thank you for being a part of Queering Education.
00:35:57.930 --> 00:36:00.329
This is a Teaching Well Queer podcast.
00:36:00.490 --> 00:36:05.530
Take what you need from this conversation and bring it back into your classroom and your students.
00:36:05.690 --> 00:36:07.130
I'm Brian Stanton.
00:36:07.289 --> 00:36:10.170
Until next time, keep showing up.
