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So many neurodivergent issues, differences, have the at the core that the IQ is very high.
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It just they, you know, you know better than I do, but I would say all the kids at Winward that were with John had to have a high enough IQ to be able to learn how they were going to teach them.
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And so when people say, Oh, I'm so sorry, I'm like, why?
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John thinks it, you know, John thinks it's a superpower, right?
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He just needed to learn differently.
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And now look at him.
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He's amazing and creative and empathetic.
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And, you know, it's who he is.
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It's not, it's only a problem if you don't help that person to be the best they can be.
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Welcome to Parenting Shrink Rapht, where two mental health professionals will get real with you about the joys and the challenges of raising children and teens.
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I'm your co-host, Dr.
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Melissa Wellner, a double board certified psychiatrist, and child and adolescent psychiatrist, and mom of three.
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And I'm Samantha Straub, licensed clinical counselor, longtime educator, parenting coach, and mother of two.
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Together, we'll explore all things parenting, from handling monumental meltdowns to first-time drivers.
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We're all about giving you practical strategies that work.
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Parenting Shrinkwrapped is more than just advice.
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You'll sit in with us for compassionate conversations about the complexities and the absurdities of parenting.
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We're here to support you and your kiddos.
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So grab your cup of coffee, take a deep breath, buckle up, and join us for this journey called Parenthood.
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We'll laugh, learn, and commiserate about the joys and messiness of raising kids.
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Melissa and Sam here as usual, and two special guests that we will introduce in a few minutes.
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But first, I want to talk about I have a lot of patients that have learning differences, ADHD, and often it's really hard for parents to navigate the school system related to those challenges.
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Whether the kid just has trouble with dyslexia and trouble with reading and writing, they have dysgraphia and they have struggle with math.
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And it's really hard sometimes to find the right setup in an educational setting that can meet that kid's learning needs.
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And it doesn't matter whether it's a public or private school.
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I've seen this challenge across the board.
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And that's part of what we're going to be talking about today.
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I was uh I was talking with a parent at the start of this week, actually, um, whose child is is neurodivergent, um, a pretty solid case of ADHD, coupled with anxiety, which we know often goes hand in hand with that.
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And um, and she was, and this kid's about to graduate from high school.
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Um and the mom was saying, like, you know, I'm she's so excited, the mother is so excited about the kid's next stop because the college that the kids picked is is much more in keeping with the culture, like it's gonna be a better fit for her child than high school was because the kid had some say in what the the environment would look like and the family helped to help them select.
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And I said, Are you familiar with the the book The Dandelion and the The Orchid and the Dandelion?
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And the mom said, No.
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And I said, Well, here's the general theory.
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Um, all children and the author I've got the book back there.
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I can't read the author's name, I'm embarrassed.
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But um the the theory is that children all children are flowers, some are dandelions who can grow in cracks in the sidewalk.
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But they're kind of but the but those those dandelions, like they're beautiful, but they're they're they're not as unusual as an orchid.
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An orchid blooms in a very complex and amazing and gorgeous ways, but it needs a really a specific environment for that bloom to happen.
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And I said to this mom, you've got an orchid.
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And and she's been trying to bloom in a crack in the sidewalk.
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And you you see that you're about to put her in the right greenhouse.
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And the and the or she's selected, you know, and the mother started to to get teary.
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Because because yes, you know, so I I to completely agree with you.
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And I know that the conversation today that we're gonna have um builds on that.
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Do you want to introduce our guests, Melissa?
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Sure.
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So with us today are Lynn and John Greenberg from the Creative Cab Company.
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Um, and they have a book series that I totally love.
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Um so Lynn Greenberg has dedicated her life to champion children as a trained attorney, practicing family law and providing pro bono work for kids.
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Um and her youngest son, who is with us today, um, was diagnosed with dyslexia.
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So Lynn became his advocate and used her own skills and tools as a lawyer to help develop a roadmap for success for him.
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Um, and it inspired her to support neurodivergent children.
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Um, and together they have written and illustrated a children's book, Robbie the Dyslexic: Taxi and the Airport Adventure.
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Um and they also have another book that has recently come out called Susie the ADHD Taxi and the Sightseeing Adventure.
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Um Sean has done all the illustrations for the book and definitely need to check them out because they're absolutely adorable.
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Um, as someone who has young kids, like you can definitely see that kids would be attracted to these books.
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Um so they've created characters that are neurodivergent themselves, and kids can relate to them.
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So these kids that are neurodivergent don't feel like they're so alone.
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Um so great relatable stories.
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So Lynn and John, welcome to Parenting Shrink Wrap.
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Thank you so much for joining us today.
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Thank you so much for having us.
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We're looking forward to this.
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Yeah.
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Tell us the story, and it's probably a winding one, but tell us the story about how how these neurodivergent taxi cabs came to be.
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Well, we you know, we always we're in two different places right now.
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John's in Chicago and I'm in uh Connecticut.
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John is finishing, he's about to graduate from getting hit for getting his MFA in Chicago.
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So sometimes we might jump on each other because we're excited to tell the story.
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So I'll start and then he can jump in.
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Um, but it was, you know, during COVID and John was home, and John is an was an art major in, you know, in college.
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And it was hard for everybody, obviously, to be home and to try to learn virtually, but it's even a little harder, I think, you know, to do that with art.
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And so John was doing as much as he could and adding on and doing his own thing.
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And I was also reading on FaceTime to my to our grand to my grandchildren.
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And so we sort of decided, yeah, what if we wrote a children's book?
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And what do we know about?
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Well, we certainly know about dyslexia and ADHD.
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And so we started talking about it, and then Robbie, the dyslexic taxi, was born, and um we we co-authored the story, and John did all the lovely illustrations, and you know, Sean, your thoughts on uh why we picked that topic.
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Well, first off, you could kind of say it was our our baking thing during COVID.
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So some people had their own little uh uh activities to do.
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We created this.
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Um, and I mean as a kid, I'd always sort of liked Thomas the Tank engine to serve anthropomorphic uh vehicles with you know humanistic faces and that sort of stuff.
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And so we thought it would be an interesting idea to try putting that into a taxi because when we thought about the whole process of what might be uh a profession that would especially be impacted by someone being on the spectrum of some of being neurodivergent.
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So then I think it was my dad said, How would uh taxi who is dyslexic, because personally I always had trouble telling left to right, um, how would a taxi be able to find the way if it couldn't read street signs and take the left and right?
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And we're just like we just picked it up from there.
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So so I was just gonna ask, like, describe what happens a little bit.
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So the so Robbie is a taxi with dyslexia and has to get through the city with with coping mechanisms, basically.
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Yeah, so you know, here's Robbie.
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And Robbie, and you can't see if you're listening, Robbie is this like cute yellow um taxi with with a like all the illustrations, the the the trunk of the or the the hood of the car is like a big nose and the headlights are wide apart and then like then the bumper is this like smile underneath, and they all have this um I don't know, this warmth to them.
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There's they're very cute.
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So Robbie's a big yellow taxi.
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But I also love too that like Robbie is navigating their way through an airport.
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Like navigating an airport as an individual with that's not neurodivergent and doesn't have trouble telling left from right is usually pretty complex in the wrong airport.
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Exactly.
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And it can get even crazier.
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But we were we had talked about it, and so the Creative Cab Company where all of our characters, where Robbie works, is a place where people can celebrate who they are, no matter what their neurodivergence is.
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And um the people in charge, um, all trying to help whichever taxi or car vehicle it is, uh, helps them navigate what works best for them.
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And so for Robbie, uh he was always sent on sort of the same path so that he could memorize the route because he's really good at it.
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Um, but one day he goes to pick up a passenger who he knows well, and the passenger says, you know, there's a change of plans today, Robbie.
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We're not going to my office, we're going to the airport.
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And Robbie kind of, you know, freaks out and thinks, what am I going to do?
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And then because he is smart and capable, you know, he takes a vehicle deep breath and decides, how can I do this?
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And so he looks up in the sky, and I won't tell you the rest, so you can maybe read it on your own.
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But he figures out the best way to get to the airport, and he's so successful because he has he has the tools and he had support from all the people who care about him.
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Oh, I have some chills about this.
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I just want you to know.
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Like I love this.
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Um, John, does that, does Robbie's little, you know, does the does this does Robbie's experience encapsulate some of your experience growing up as someone who navigated neurodiversity?
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Very much so.
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There were like a lot of techniques that I had to learn, such as I mentioned earlier that I couldn't, you know, tell my left and right apart, but I was told this suggestion by my mom way back when that if you hold up both your hands, I I won't do it here because it's probably going to be uh reflected, so look a little extra confusing.
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But if you hold up your right and left hands, if you make uh little L shapes with them, your left will have an L and your right will not have an L.
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So that was it was a very sort of creative but straightforward way to overcome something that a lot of people don't even consider.
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Um so in that respect, that's what we wanted to focus on overcoming what others may consider simple through the most creative aspects you could consider.
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Do you find so first of all, I still use that tool, I just want you to know.
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Like I'm driving along and and and and you know, Way says, turn left.
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And if I'm not looking at what left means, I don't remember what left means every time.
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I have a and I also reverse numbers, as Melissa knows.
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Like if she gives me a number, if I see it, invariably it gets written down.
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Like I'm better off being the one that writes down and types the numbers.
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Yeah, I reverse them, I I mix them up.
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So I I this is this is my I can't, and my husband knows I can't keep numbers in my working memory.
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They fall out of my working memory.
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Um, there's other things that I can have a great memory for, but numbers are not one of them.
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I can look at numbers and then he'll go downstairs and he'll say, like, what you know, how much did we spend on that bill?
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And I'll be like, I don't know.
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He's like, didn't we just pay it?
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I'm like, yes, but that was 20 seconds ago.
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Let me put this this way there's a reason why I decided to make art my career path and not something like mathematics.
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Yeah.
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And I it's not that the concepts are beyond me.
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I can't hold the numbers.
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I can't.
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And I can't I can't keep them in order.
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It's we it's just a so I I I get the the the having to come up with workarounds.
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Um what has been the feedback?
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What like how how have you how has this been received?
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Because uh we think it's the the thing.
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I think it's amazing.
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Yeah.
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Thank you.
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We we've had nothing but positive from this, honestly.
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It it's been an amazing experience.
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I think some of the best moments are when we've done like book signings, or I I once gave a reading to the school that helped me become remediated in reading and writing, a place called Winward.
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Uh and working with the kids in person and seeing sort of the the happiness and that they I've literally had people come up to me and say it's it's just amazing to see someone like myself in this book.
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And there's really no way to describe that feeling, but it to put it simply, it is it is one I will never forget.
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And Lynn, I mean, obviously you have a career as an attorney.
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Was writing a book ever a thing for you?
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Was this ever an idea, or was this really like COVID-borne?
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Well, you know, to be honest, when I was in college, I was thinking, maybe I'll be a writer, maybe, you know, I took a lot of creative writing classes.
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I loved it.
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I was an English major.
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Okay.
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But but at the time I thought more practically, how can I put a roof over my head?
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So I wasn't sure.
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I I thought maybe I could, you know, do some creative writing on the side and use my writing skills as a lawyer.
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So I did that.
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And then you know what happens, you have plans, but I did not end up uh doing that kind of creative writing till much later.
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And, you know, this seemed like a wonderful opportunity.
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And so, you know, John and I decided to explore it.
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And and as he said, we've had such positive feedback, we've won um book awards and had been on so many wonderful podcasts like this, and really been able to talk to a lot of people.
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And um we just have been really so thrilled with the response.
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And so we decided to write a whole series under the Creative Cab Company logo.
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And as you said, the second book is about Susie, the ADHD taxi.
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So um, and we're hoping, you know, we're we're planning on doing other books, and so we'll see where it goes.
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But as I said, we've had a wonderful positive response to the point where we're selling books and reaching so many people, which was our our dream.
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Yeah.
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So Lynn, when when John was growing up and you had to do the advocacy for him, what did you learn and what do you what wisdom do you have to pass along to parents who are currently advocating for their neurodivergent little ones or or adolescent ones?
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You know what?
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It's it's not an easy path.
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And I think, especially, you know, John is in his later 20s, and back then it was even harder because there was um, well, there was no, you know, I had a dial-up computer, like there was no Google, there was no there were no Facebook groups, I did not have a community, and I didn't know really anybody whose child was, you know, neurodivergent.
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And it also really wasn't, you know, talked about as much.
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You weren't allowed to discuss those things, which is crazy.
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But, you know, nobody did back then.
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And so it was it was difficult because I had as early as you know, when he was three in in his nursery school class, his teacher was saying that he was slow and you know, he should stay back.
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And I'm thinking, no, that is not my child.
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I'm not just a prejudiced mom, but I know that's not my kid.
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He, as he said, he loved Thomas a tank engine and knew every Thomas' uh character's name, but not that Thomas started with the letter T.
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And we know that everyone learns differently.
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I have three much older kids, but I knew John was not hitting the sort of classic uh milestones.
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And so I had to start doing my own investigation.
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I went to the library, I talked to a friend who's a pediatrician.
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The school was most unhelpful even when he got into grade school.
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And it almost to the contrary, and I just knew in my gut that something was just different and needed to be addressed differently.
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So I found uh with the with help, I found someone who would test him because the school wouldn't that's so frustrating.
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That still happens, Lynn, and it drives me bonkers.
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Um, it is something that I still have patients who struggle with that like the school system like won't test a child when there's something going on.
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Um, they're like, you know, oh well they're passing, and it's like, yeah, oh, but like, and something I also always say because it drives me really baddie at work, is like being neurodivergence and intelligence and IQ are very separate things.
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Um they have not like one doesn't equal the other, like, and I hate when it's like, oh, somebody's slow.
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Like, what the heck does that mean?
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Like actually, mom was using a more polite way of yeah, wanna keep it, wanna keep it PG.
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So it was very, very hard.
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And ironically, once I did have him tested and I went into the school with, you know, all the information, they said, we don't buy it.
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We're gonna now we're gonna test him.
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I'm like, too little, too late.
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Like that's still happening.
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Really?
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I'm I was so I I was so unhappy.
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And then the learning specialist said to me quietly, I don't know how to teach a child who's dyslexic.
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And yep.
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And I thought, okay, so now what?
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And so the woman who did the testing had a child who was autistic, had a child with dyslexia, and said to me, There's an amazing school in New York, in Westchester, which is about 45 minutes from where we live.
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You really should look at it.
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John belongs there.
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They teach children who are dyslexic, who have high IQs or or other language-based learning differences, go look at it.
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And so I did, and I thought, oh, if John could go here, you know, this would be amazing.
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And so we had a family meeting.
00:22:32.450 --> 00:22:37.730
And because, you know, I have older kids also, but back then, how are they going to get somewhere?
00:22:37.890 --> 00:22:42.370
I was driving, you know, at least like almost an hour each way.
00:22:42.769 --> 00:22:48.849
And we made a family decision that John really needed to go, you know, private school.
00:22:48.930 --> 00:22:51.569
So we decided we'd all eat a lot of peanut butter and jelly.
00:22:52.529 --> 00:22:55.970
And you know, we really made the family decision.
00:22:56.289 --> 00:23:03.250
And I think once John was admitted, you know, was a process too.
00:23:03.730 --> 00:23:09.410
We were so thrilled because he he met his people, I met people.
00:23:09.569 --> 00:23:13.490
It was finally a really honest conversation.
00:23:13.650 --> 00:23:23.250
You know, he's like, he felt better knowing that, you know, his label, which some people are reticent to do, but I think is important.
00:23:23.730 --> 00:23:29.890
His label gave him the feeling that, wow, it's not my fault.
00:23:30.289 --> 00:23:34.370
And now I'm in a place where I can learn.
00:23:34.769 --> 00:23:40.930
And everybody there was in the same boat, and all the parents had the same story I did.
00:23:41.170 --> 00:23:54.450
And so it was really, really great for us both to find people that we could could communicate with and felt, you know, we had we had compassion for each other.
00:23:55.490 --> 00:24:06.210
John, earlier you were talking about um you know about about helping people see themselves in the book.
00:24:06.450 --> 00:24:17.250
Um and what you just said, Lynn, just like joining the school community gave you the experience that you are hoping to give readers with this book, it sounds like.
00:24:17.490 --> 00:24:17.970
Yes.
00:24:18.370 --> 00:24:18.930
Yeah.
00:24:19.089 --> 00:24:22.930
Um, so how old were you, John, when you transferred to that school?
00:24:23.329 --> 00:24:26.849
Uh I was, I believe, 12 or 13.
00:24:27.089 --> 00:24:27.890
No, seven.
00:24:28.690 --> 00:24:39.089
Speaking of mathing, you were going into six into second grade, so you were six going to be, you know, you were just about seven.
00:24:39.250 --> 00:24:39.650
Not quite.
00:24:40.450 --> 00:24:41.970
My second guess was more correct.
00:24:42.049 --> 00:24:44.130
I don't know why 12 or 13 came from.
00:24:44.450 --> 00:24:47.089
You you left, you left when you were 12.
00:24:47.410 --> 00:24:47.650
Okay.
00:24:47.809 --> 00:24:49.009
Well, I see I got my dates.
00:24:49.490 --> 00:24:51.970
You got your 12, you got the 12 part right, honey.
00:24:52.210 --> 00:24:56.849
So you might not remember the answer to this because you were pretty young when you transferred in.
00:24:57.009 --> 00:25:10.769
But for this, I'm I'm gonna ask a question about what it like, I want to know what it what you remember about feeling about going from one school environment, how that was for you, and then moving into this other school environment.
00:25:10.849 --> 00:25:19.329
Um, in particular, I'm asking because there are parents of kids who are they're trying to make decisions about best schooling experience for their kid.
00:25:19.410 --> 00:25:27.490
And to the extent you can speak from the the child's perspective or to help that give a child a voice, I'm I'm asking if you could could do that.
00:25:28.130 --> 00:25:37.009
Well, surprisingly, even though dates kind of fall out of my head sometimes, the memories of that they do stick around quite well.
00:25:37.410 --> 00:25:44.049
Uh when I was transferring, of course I was I was nervous.
00:25:44.210 --> 00:25:47.250
I was going to a new school in a completely different location.
00:25:47.410 --> 00:25:49.650
It took us 45 minutes to get there.
00:25:49.970 --> 00:25:53.890
It was a completely different teaching method.
00:25:54.210 --> 00:26:03.970
There were a lot of things to be nervous about, but what you gotta realize is while I was at my old school, I was frustrated pretty much constantly.
00:26:04.370 --> 00:26:15.250
There were a lot of like late nights spent with mom and dad just trying to get the the most basic of work done.
00:26:16.049 --> 00:26:18.769
It was honestly infuriating.
00:26:19.329 --> 00:26:29.250
So to end up in this new place, there was some discomfort at first, but I pretty quickly fell into being there.
00:26:29.329 --> 00:26:37.809
And then my annoyances came from basic school stuff, not I can't read and write, and this is the most infuriating thing in my life.
00:26:37.890 --> 00:26:45.410
And I'd I'd much rather just have school drama than doubt myself on a day-to-day basis.
00:26:46.289 --> 00:26:46.930
Then yeah.
00:26:48.450 --> 00:26:53.170
So you you were given the privilege of having um regular kid problems.
00:26:53.569 --> 00:26:54.130
Yes.
00:26:55.009 --> 00:26:58.849
And I hate to say I don't mean that you were an irregular kid.
00:26:58.930 --> 00:27:01.569
I mean the problems you were having were regular.
00:27:01.730 --> 00:27:02.930
That's what I yeah.
00:27:03.170 --> 00:27:03.410
Yeah.
00:27:03.730 --> 00:27:10.130
But when you put the kid in the wrong environment, or an environment that can't support a child.
00:27:10.849 --> 00:27:12.289
The orchid doesn't bloom.
00:27:12.529 --> 00:27:14.769
No, you're in the crack.
00:27:15.490 --> 00:27:18.049
And it's so it's very hard.
00:27:18.130 --> 00:27:25.490
And I would say, I think I zigged and zagged when you asked me, you know, what would you tell parents?
00:27:25.650 --> 00:27:31.009
And I would say, you really have to listen to your gut and listen to your child.
00:27:31.250 --> 00:27:36.690
And not just what they're saying verbally, but also, you know, maybe the nonverbal cues.
00:27:37.329 --> 00:27:44.930
John, you know, was I was told before he transferred to Winward, I was told, you know, John's a problem child.
00:27:45.009 --> 00:27:46.769
He gets up and he wanders around.
00:27:46.849 --> 00:27:49.250
And I'm like, that doesn't sound like my child.
00:27:49.410 --> 00:27:51.009
He's not a problem anything.
00:27:51.329 --> 00:27:57.569
And, you know, obviously no one's perfect, but I knew that that didn't sound correct.
00:27:57.809 --> 00:27:59.650
And so John and I talked about it.
00:27:59.730 --> 00:28:05.410
And he said, Mom, I get up because she's asking me to read a book and I can't read it, and it's really embarrassing.
00:28:06.450 --> 00:28:12.210
So that those kinds of things I think parents really need to listen to.
00:28:12.450 --> 00:28:24.049
And if they don't test you, you know, there are other ways in the school system which, you know, are more of a process, but you need to try to advocate as best you can.
00:28:24.210 --> 00:28:28.130
Sometimes there are advocates you can speak with that can help you.
00:28:28.289 --> 00:28:43.809
You know, different school systems have different approaches, but don't let the talking heads tell you, you know, that there's a problem that you don't think is really the answer to what's going on with your child.
00:28:44.610 --> 00:28:45.089
Yeah.
00:28:45.410 --> 00:28:45.730
Yeah.
00:28:45.890 --> 00:29:01.730
That's, I mean, uh as a therapist, I often say, hey, listen, I I know patterns and I I know developmental norms and I know communication styles, but I do not know you if I'm talking to a kid or client, or if I'm talking to a parent, I don't know your child.
00:29:02.210 --> 00:29:05.569
Therefore, this is this must be a collaboration.
00:29:06.370 --> 00:29:15.809
It can't just be me talking from on high because you I'm not the ticket to your intu to the internal workings of my client, whether that's a a a child or the parent of a child.
00:29:16.289 --> 00:29:18.130
Tell parents all the time, like, trust your gut.
00:29:18.690 --> 00:29:28.049
Like, if something does not feel right, I don't care what so and so said or what the school said, like what is your gut telling you?
00:29:28.210 --> 00:29:32.849
Like, I say to parents all the time, I'm like, like, you know your child best.
00:29:33.089 --> 00:29:35.650
So, like, what what is it?
00:29:35.809 --> 00:29:39.329
Like, you know, it you might get a label that's wrong.
00:29:39.490 --> 00:29:49.730
Like being told your kid is slow when they actually have a learning difference is, you know, very different kind of connotation there.
00:29:50.130 --> 00:29:51.089
It sure is.
00:29:51.490 --> 00:30:04.529
And and and so many neurodivergent uh issues, differences have the at the core that the IQ is very high.
00:30:04.769 --> 00:30:17.970
It just they, you know, you know better than I do, but I would say all the kids at Winward were that were with John had to have a high enough IQ to be able to learn how they were going to teach them.
00:30:18.210 --> 00:30:21.890
And so when people say, Oh, I'm so sorry, I'm like, why?
00:30:22.130 --> 00:30:26.529
John thinks it, you know, John thinks it's a superpower, right?
00:30:26.769 --> 00:30:28.690
He just needed to learn differently.
00:30:28.849 --> 00:30:30.210
And now look at him.
00:30:30.370 --> 00:30:35.569
He's amazing and creative and empathetic, and you know, it's who he is.
00:30:35.730 --> 00:30:43.009
It's not, it's only a problem if you don't help that person to to be the best they can be.
00:30:43.250 --> 00:30:43.490
Yes.
00:30:43.809 --> 00:30:53.490
And I think we've talked about, oh, sorry, John, like on our episodes about ADHD, like we talk about the superpowers of ADHD.
00:30:53.650 --> 00:31:01.490
And like those kids typically have they're they're creative, they're funny, like there's lots of other things.
00:31:01.569 --> 00:31:09.490
Like, it's not a defining moment just because they might need support in a different way.
00:31:11.410 --> 00:31:22.289
And all I was gonna add to that was being at I'm currently at SAIC in Chicago getting my MFA.
00:31:22.769 --> 00:31:34.849
And the amount of people here who are somewhere on the neurodivergent spectrum is so common, it's frankly almost uncommon if you don't have anything.
00:31:35.490 --> 00:31:41.490
And these are some of the most creative and unique and interesting people you can meet.
00:31:41.809 --> 00:31:47.250
So I I stand by that superpower phrase quite readily.
00:31:48.529 --> 00:31:56.210
John, when you left you, so you were 12 when you left when we're and and did you go then back into a traditional school setting?
00:31:56.529 --> 00:31:57.089
Yes.
00:31:57.569 --> 00:31:58.769
And did you no?
00:31:58.930 --> 00:31:59.490
Yes, no?
00:31:59.730 --> 00:32:00.370
No, no, I didn't.
00:32:00.930 --> 00:32:03.329
It was traditional, but it was it was also private.
00:32:03.490 --> 00:32:04.690
That's all I was gonna qualify.
00:32:05.089 --> 00:32:07.009
Yeah, so I'm sorry, Johnny, finish.
00:32:08.690 --> 00:32:21.329
Um I was gonna ask, did you feel like because of the type of teaching you'd received and the learning you'd done, did you feel equipped to go into your new school environment, which obviously was selected with care by your family?
00:32:22.529 --> 00:32:32.610
Yes, no, I I left Winworth with all the techniques and strengths I needed to succeed in these other programs.
00:32:32.930 --> 00:32:37.569
And of course, there was still a bit of a learning difference, uh, learning gap.
00:32:37.730 --> 00:32:52.450
I mean, being in a new school again and sort of relearning basic things because they did do things differently, but I had the skills, so I was able to get through it without any real issue.
00:32:52.769 --> 00:33:01.089
I think about because I said I in when I was introducing myself before we started recording, I I spent 26 years in schools, middle and high school.
00:33:01.329 --> 00:33:07.650
And we would get and different, a variety of different, all of them independent, just that ended up being my my trajectory.
00:33:07.970 --> 00:33:21.490
Um and in the independent schools, not all of them, but some that we that I worked in, we would take kids who came from um some one school I worked in took kids with who came from therapeutic settings.
00:33:21.890 --> 00:33:23.089
And this isn't the same.
00:33:23.170 --> 00:33:35.490
I'm not I'm not likening neurodivergent um specific education to a mental health condition, but I'm likening the training that you receive in programs that are specific for your needs.
00:33:35.569 --> 00:33:37.089
That's what that's where this is going.
00:33:37.490 --> 00:33:46.049
Um and I would get those kids as ninth graders as of the counselor, which is my role, and they had so many tools.
00:33:46.289 --> 00:33:58.849
So, yes, they had left a therapeutic environment, but they also tended to be some of the best at managing their emotions and managing the big stuff that school threw their way because they had been explicitly taught this stuff.
00:33:59.650 --> 00:34:03.490
And and what you're saying, it sounds to me you had a similar experience.
00:34:03.650 --> 00:34:16.610
It wasn't about mental health tools, it was about learning tools, but you had spent time exposed to specific, you know, ways of manipulating what you were being exposed to so that your brain could grasp it.
00:34:16.929 --> 00:34:23.170
My question for you is did you did you embrace your your label?
00:34:23.329 --> 00:34:25.089
Like like you we talked about this earlier.
00:34:25.170 --> 00:34:30.769
Did you did when you went into middle school, which is like such a like who wants to go back there, right?
00:34:30.929 --> 00:34:42.929
Like you know, and and everyone's mission in middle school is is to fit in in some way, and um you were adapting as a new student to a new middle school.
00:34:44.289 --> 00:34:49.409
Like, did you go in kind of advocating for yourself to say, like, hey, I I have dyslexia?
00:34:49.569 --> 00:34:53.969
This means I have to learn differently, or did you kind of keep that on the DL?
00:34:54.929 --> 00:35:02.210
I I definitely for things like extra time, that sort of stuff, I would go for, I would advocate for it, I'd go get it.
00:35:02.449 --> 00:35:05.490
I felt like it was a right I deserved.
00:35:05.650 --> 00:35:09.809
Now I wasn't going in the hallway and just telling people I felt sick.
00:35:09.889 --> 00:35:11.650
But if someone asked, why do you have extra time?
00:35:11.730 --> 00:35:16.130
I'd be like, Oh, I have dyslexia, and I'd go on to explain what that means.
00:35:16.210 --> 00:35:22.289
Because a lot of people would just think it is thinking a B and a D are the same thing because it's backwards.
00:35:22.530 --> 00:35:32.130
But it's it's a lot more complicated than that, and then it would create discussion, and that's one of the other reasons why we even created the book to create discussion.
00:35:33.090 --> 00:35:50.610
So and and so it sounds like another outgrowth of your going to a school that was suitable for you is you got to grow into self-acceptance that might not have happened if you'd stayed in the school where it was such a a mismatch environmentally.
00:35:51.329 --> 00:35:52.369
Most likely, yeah.
00:35:52.849 --> 00:36:16.610
Uh I can't stress enough how much how foundational that that experience or of self-acceptance were we're whatever your schooling needs may be, um we do kids such a service when we can offer them a way to embrace who they are and see a path forward for themselves with with like glee and enthusiasm, right?
00:36:16.769 --> 00:36:19.889
Um and to own who they are without apology.
00:36:20.130 --> 00:36:26.769
And uh and that doesn't we owe that to seven-year-olds, we owe that to 12-year-olds, we owe that to 17-year-olds.
00:36:26.849 --> 00:36:31.409
I and I feel like as a therapist, we owe that to, you know, everybody deserves that.
00:36:31.650 --> 00:36:43.889
Um so what a gift that that you were able to receive, and what a gift that you and your mom have have turned that experience into for the world.
00:36:44.849 --> 00:36:45.409
Thank you.
00:36:45.570 --> 00:36:45.889
Thank you.
00:36:46.130 --> 00:36:49.809
And when John left Windward, he could have gone to any school anywhere.
00:36:49.889 --> 00:36:53.409
He could read better than quite a few people.
00:36:53.650 --> 00:37:00.130
And the school he went to was a school that was celebrating the arts.
00:37:00.289 --> 00:37:05.329
He had a, you know, he had to do all the curriculum, he took a language, like he did everything.
00:37:05.409 --> 00:37:09.250
And he didn't ask for anything except more time.
00:37:09.730 --> 00:37:15.170
And quite frankly, he didn't even always need it, but he he had he had earned that, as he said.
00:37:15.329 --> 00:37:36.369
And I I think it is important because if you give people, kids, the tools, then, you know, to the best of your means, I think then they can find the courage and you know, the the fortitude to to be who they are and be proud of that.
00:37:36.769 --> 00:37:45.170
And I think the success is just take a look at the cover of the book, and John's success is plastered all over it in beautiful illustrations.
00:37:45.409 --> 00:37:45.889
Thank you.
00:37:46.050 --> 00:37:48.050
Um you're welcome.
00:37:48.289 --> 00:37:50.210
Um we have the other one here.
00:37:50.369 --> 00:37:51.170
This is Susie.
00:37:51.329 --> 00:37:53.090
Oh, and Susie's pink.
00:37:53.329 --> 00:37:58.050
Susie is pink, and Susie is also as cute as Robbie.
00:37:58.369 --> 00:38:02.530
Um, I can't wait to see future books from you guys.
00:38:02.769 --> 00:38:07.010
Um for our listeners, where can they find you guys?
00:38:07.170 --> 00:38:12.769
Where can we purchase um the books and future publications too?
00:38:14.210 --> 00:38:18.210
So we we would absolutely love to hear from everybody.
00:38:18.369 --> 00:38:25.409
We are on almost every social media platform um under the Creative Cab Company logo.
00:38:25.889 --> 00:38:36.289
You we have a website, you can DM us, you can uh email us through, you know, either, you can go buy it on Amazon.
00:38:36.530 --> 00:38:41.809
Um if you go to your local bookstore and don't find it, you can ask them and they can order it.
00:38:41.969 --> 00:38:44.130
So there are many ways to do it.
00:38:44.289 --> 00:38:53.010
If you're having trouble and want it, like I said, email us or DM us and we would be happy to help you and come, you know, talk about it.
00:38:53.409 --> 00:38:57.250
We we love to go to schools and to bookstores.
00:38:57.490 --> 00:39:05.809
So we really enjoy the back and forth with people who have had a similar experience or who have read the book and enjoy it.
00:39:06.050 --> 00:39:07.809
So come find us.
00:39:08.369 --> 00:39:27.889
Thank you so much for sharing your story and for writing very much needed books um so that kids can feel accepted and know that there's other people out there like them and that with the right tools they will be just fine and successful, just like John is.
00:39:29.010 --> 00:39:29.570
Thank you.
00:39:29.809 --> 00:39:34.369
It's so wonderful to talk to talk on these, you know, podcasts like yours.
00:39:34.530 --> 00:39:39.010
And and uh I think it's really important to keep the conversation going.
00:39:39.329 --> 00:39:40.289
So thank you.
00:39:40.530 --> 00:39:41.170
You're welcome.
00:39:41.490 --> 00:39:46.449
To our listeners, we thank you for tuning in to another episode of Parenting Shrinkwrapp.
00:39:46.610 --> 00:39:50.929
As always, we also thank you for raising the next generation of world changers.
00:39:51.090 --> 00:39:53.090
We love you, we love your kids.
00:39:59.570 --> 00:40:05.250
Thanks for joining us on this wild ride called Parenthood here at Parenting Shrinkwrapp.
00:40:05.409 --> 00:40:13.889
We hope today's episode gave you some useful tools and maybe even a few laughs to help you navigate the twists and turns of raising teens and kids.
00:40:14.289 --> 00:40:18.449
Remember, parenting is a journey, not a destination.
00:40:18.690 --> 00:40:23.730
And no matter where you are on the road, we're here to help you stay on course.
00:40:23.889 --> 00:40:31.570
Whether it's monumental meltdowns, teenage turmoil, or just the everyday chaos, you don't have to travel this path alone.
00:40:31.889 --> 00:40:37.329
So until next time, keep your seatbelt fastened, your sense of humor intact, and your eyes on the road.
00:40:37.490 --> 00:40:43.090
We'll be back soon with more compassionate conversations and practical strategies to support you and your family.
00:40:43.409 --> 00:40:49.889
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00:40:50.130 --> 00:40:55.490
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00:40:55.809 --> 00:41:04.849
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00:41:05.170 --> 00:41:09.250
Until we meet again, take care and enjoy the ride.
00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:10.080
So many neurodivergent issues, differences, have the at the core that the IQ is very high.
00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:23.519
It just they, you know, you know better than I do, but I would say all the kids at Winward that were with John had to have a high enough IQ to be able to learn how they were going to teach them.
00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:27.440
And so when people say, Oh, I'm so sorry, I'm like, why?
00:00:27.679 --> 00:00:32.079
John thinks it, you know, John thinks it's a superpower, right?
00:00:32.320 --> 00:00:34.240
He just needed to learn differently.
00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:35.759
And now look at him.
00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:38.880
He's amazing and creative and empathetic.
00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:41.119
And, you know, it's who he is.
00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:48.880
It's not, it's only a problem if you don't help that person to be the best they can be.
00:00:54.079 --> 00:01:04.000
Welcome to Parenting Shrink Rapht, where two mental health professionals will get real with you about the joys and the challenges of raising children and teens.
00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:05.840
I'm your co-host, Dr.
00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:13.120
Melissa Wellner, a double board certified psychiatrist, and child and adolescent psychiatrist, and mom of three.
00:01:13.599 --> 00:01:19.840
And I'm Samantha Straub, licensed clinical counselor, longtime educator, parenting coach, and mother of two.
00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:26.879
Together, we'll explore all things parenting, from handling monumental meltdowns to first-time drivers.
00:01:27.120 --> 00:01:30.159
We're all about giving you practical strategies that work.
00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:33.439
Parenting Shrinkwrapped is more than just advice.
00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:40.400
You'll sit in with us for compassionate conversations about the complexities and the absurdities of parenting.
00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:43.359
We're here to support you and your kiddos.
00:01:43.760 --> 00:01:51.120
So grab your cup of coffee, take a deep breath, buckle up, and join us for this journey called Parenthood.
00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:58.400
We'll laugh, learn, and commiserate about the joys and messiness of raising kids.
00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:21.039
Melissa and Sam here as usual, and two special guests that we will introduce in a few minutes.
00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:41.120
But first, I want to talk about I have a lot of patients that have learning differences, ADHD, and often it's really hard for parents to navigate the school system related to those challenges.
00:02:41.439 --> 00:02:50.400
Whether the kid just has trouble with dyslexia and trouble with reading and writing, they have dysgraphia and they have struggle with math.
00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:59.039
And it's really hard sometimes to find the right setup in an educational setting that can meet that kid's learning needs.
00:02:59.199 --> 00:03:02.400
And it doesn't matter whether it's a public or private school.
00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:05.520
I've seen this challenge across the board.
00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:08.159
And that's part of what we're going to be talking about today.
00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:24.479
I was uh I was talking with a parent at the start of this week, actually, um, whose child is is neurodivergent, um, a pretty solid case of ADHD, coupled with anxiety, which we know often goes hand in hand with that.
00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:28.080
And um, and she was, and this kid's about to graduate from high school.
00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:52.159
Um and the mom was saying, like, you know, I'm she's so excited, the mother is so excited about the kid's next stop because the college that the kids picked is is much more in keeping with the culture, like it's gonna be a better fit for her child than high school was because the kid had some say in what the the environment would look like and the family helped to help them select.
00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:58.319
And I said, Are you familiar with the the book The Dandelion and the The Orchid and the Dandelion?
00:03:58.479 --> 00:03:59.280
And the mom said, No.
00:03:59.439 --> 00:04:01.439
And I said, Well, here's the general theory.
00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:06.319
Um, all children and the author I've got the book back there.
00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:08.800
I can't read the author's name, I'm embarrassed.
00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:18.079
But um the the theory is that children all children are flowers, some are dandelions who can grow in cracks in the sidewalk.
00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:26.079
But they're kind of but the but those those dandelions, like they're beautiful, but they're they're they're not as unusual as an orchid.
00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:35.279
An orchid blooms in a very complex and amazing and gorgeous ways, but it needs a really a specific environment for that bloom to happen.
00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:39.199
And I said to this mom, you've got an orchid.
00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:44.800
And and she's been trying to bloom in a crack in the sidewalk.
00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:48.720
And you you see that you're about to put her in the right greenhouse.
00:04:48.959 --> 00:04:53.120
And the and the or she's selected, you know, and the mother started to to get teary.
00:04:53.680 --> 00:04:57.680
Because because yes, you know, so I I to completely agree with you.
00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:02.319
And I know that the conversation today that we're gonna have um builds on that.
00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:04.079
Do you want to introduce our guests, Melissa?
00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:04.800
Sure.
00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:11.600
So with us today are Lynn and John Greenberg from the Creative Cab Company.
00:05:11.839 --> 00:05:17.360
Um, and they have a book series that I totally love.
00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:28.560
Um so Lynn Greenberg has dedicated her life to champion children as a trained attorney, practicing family law and providing pro bono work for kids.
00:05:28.720 --> 00:05:34.800
Um and her youngest son, who is with us today, um, was diagnosed with dyslexia.
00:05:34.959 --> 00:05:44.079
So Lynn became his advocate and used her own skills and tools as a lawyer to help develop a roadmap for success for him.
00:05:44.240 --> 00:05:48.879
Um, and it inspired her to support neurodivergent children.
00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:58.160
Um, and together they have written and illustrated a children's book, Robbie the Dyslexic: Taxi and the Airport Adventure.
00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:07.360
Um and they also have another book that has recently come out called Susie the ADHD Taxi and the Sightseeing Adventure.
00:06:07.519 --> 00:06:14.800
Um Sean has done all the illustrations for the book and definitely need to check them out because they're absolutely adorable.
00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:21.439
Um, as someone who has young kids, like you can definitely see that kids would be attracted to these books.
00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:29.040
Um so they've created characters that are neurodivergent themselves, and kids can relate to them.
00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:33.040
So these kids that are neurodivergent don't feel like they're so alone.
00:06:33.279 --> 00:06:36.319
Um so great relatable stories.
00:06:36.480 --> 00:06:40.639
So Lynn and John, welcome to Parenting Shrink Wrap.
00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:42.560
Thank you so much for joining us today.
00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:45.120
Thank you so much for having us.
00:06:45.600 --> 00:06:47.040
We're looking forward to this.
00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:47.839
Yeah.
00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:58.639
Tell us the story, and it's probably a winding one, but tell us the story about how how these neurodivergent taxi cabs came to be.
00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:06.560
Well, we you know, we always we're in two different places right now.
00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:10.319
John's in Chicago and I'm in uh Connecticut.
00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:16.160
John is finishing, he's about to graduate from getting hit for getting his MFA in Chicago.
00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:20.959
So sometimes we might jump on each other because we're excited to tell the story.
00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:23.600
So I'll start and then he can jump in.
00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:32.480
Um, but it was, you know, during COVID and John was home, and John is an was an art major in, you know, in college.
00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:42.560
And it was hard for everybody, obviously, to be home and to try to learn virtually, but it's even a little harder, I think, you know, to do that with art.
00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:47.680
And so John was doing as much as he could and adding on and doing his own thing.
00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:53.199
And I was also reading on FaceTime to my to our grand to my grandchildren.
00:07:53.600 --> 00:08:00.240
And so we sort of decided, yeah, what if we wrote a children's book?
00:08:00.560 --> 00:08:02.079
And what do we know about?
00:08:02.399 --> 00:08:05.759
Well, we certainly know about dyslexia and ADHD.
00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:28.319
And so we started talking about it, and then Robbie, the dyslexic taxi, was born, and um we we co-authored the story, and John did all the lovely illustrations, and you know, Sean, your thoughts on uh why we picked that topic.
00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:34.639
Well, first off, you could kind of say it was our our baking thing during COVID.
00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:39.360
So some people had their own little uh uh activities to do.
00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:40.879
We created this.
00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:55.440
Um, and I mean as a kid, I'd always sort of liked Thomas the Tank engine to serve anthropomorphic uh vehicles with you know humanistic faces and that sort of stuff.
00:08:55.759 --> 00:09:16.240
And so we thought it would be an interesting idea to try putting that into a taxi because when we thought about the whole process of what might be uh a profession that would especially be impacted by someone being on the spectrum of some of being neurodivergent.
00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:34.399
So then I think it was my dad said, How would uh taxi who is dyslexic, because personally I always had trouble telling left to right, um, how would a taxi be able to find the way if it couldn't read street signs and take the left and right?
00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:37.600
And we're just like we just picked it up from there.
00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:45.519
So so I was just gonna ask, like, describe what happens a little bit.
00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:53.360
So the so Robbie is a taxi with dyslexia and has to get through the city with with coping mechanisms, basically.
00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:55.840
Yeah, so you know, here's Robbie.
00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:20.320
And Robbie, and you can't see if you're listening, Robbie is this like cute yellow um taxi with with a like all the illustrations, the the the trunk of the or the the hood of the car is like a big nose and the headlights are wide apart and then like then the bumper is this like smile underneath, and they all have this um I don't know, this warmth to them.
00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:21.519
There's they're very cute.
00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:23.440
So Robbie's a big yellow taxi.
00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:29.120
But I also love too that like Robbie is navigating their way through an airport.
00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:39.039
Like navigating an airport as an individual with that's not neurodivergent and doesn't have trouble telling left from right is usually pretty complex in the wrong airport.
00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:40.159
Exactly.
00:10:40.320 --> 00:10:42.080
And it can get even crazier.
00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:57.279
But we were we had talked about it, and so the Creative Cab Company where all of our characters, where Robbie works, is a place where people can celebrate who they are, no matter what their neurodivergence is.
00:10:57.759 --> 00:11:10.000
And um the people in charge, um, all trying to help whichever taxi or car vehicle it is, uh, helps them navigate what works best for them.
00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:19.679
And so for Robbie, uh he was always sent on sort of the same path so that he could memorize the route because he's really good at it.
00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:28.000
Um, but one day he goes to pick up a passenger who he knows well, and the passenger says, you know, there's a change of plans today, Robbie.
00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:30.720
We're not going to my office, we're going to the airport.
00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:35.519
And Robbie kind of, you know, freaks out and thinks, what am I going to do?
00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:45.519
And then because he is smart and capable, you know, he takes a vehicle deep breath and decides, how can I do this?
00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:51.840
And so he looks up in the sky, and I won't tell you the rest, so you can maybe read it on your own.
00:11:52.080 --> 00:12:02.720
But he figures out the best way to get to the airport, and he's so successful because he has he has the tools and he had support from all the people who care about him.
00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:05.120
Oh, I have some chills about this.
00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:06.000
I just want you to know.
00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:07.039
Like I love this.
00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:20.720
Um, John, does that, does Robbie's little, you know, does the does this does Robbie's experience encapsulate some of your experience growing up as someone who navigated neurodiversity?
00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:22.639
Very much so.
00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:42.720
There were like a lot of techniques that I had to learn, such as I mentioned earlier that I couldn't, you know, tell my left and right apart, but I was told this suggestion by my mom way back when that if you hold up both your hands, I I won't do it here because it's probably going to be uh reflected, so look a little extra confusing.
00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:53.360
But if you hold up your right and left hands, if you make uh little L shapes with them, your left will have an L and your right will not have an L.
00:12:53.519 --> 00:13:02.960
So that was it was a very sort of creative but straightforward way to overcome something that a lot of people don't even consider.
00:13:03.759 --> 00:13:19.600
Um so in that respect, that's what we wanted to focus on overcoming what others may consider simple through the most creative aspects you could consider.
00:14:13.889 --> 00:14:18.529
Do you find so first of all, I still use that tool, I just want you to know.
00:14:18.769 --> 00:14:26.450
Like I'm driving along and and and and you know, Way says, turn left.
00:14:26.529 --> 00:14:31.649
And if I'm not looking at what left means, I don't remember what left means every time.
00:14:31.810 --> 00:14:35.250
I have a and I also reverse numbers, as Melissa knows.
00:14:35.330 --> 00:14:39.009
Like if she gives me a number, if I see it, invariably it gets written down.
00:14:39.090 --> 00:14:42.610
Like I'm better off being the one that writes down and types the numbers.
00:14:42.850 --> 00:14:45.409
Yeah, I reverse them, I I mix them up.
00:14:45.490 --> 00:14:51.250
So I I this is this is my I can't, and my husband knows I can't keep numbers in my working memory.
00:14:51.330 --> 00:14:52.930
They fall out of my working memory.
00:14:53.250 --> 00:14:56.850
Um, there's other things that I can have a great memory for, but numbers are not one of them.
00:14:56.930 --> 00:15:01.889
I can look at numbers and then he'll go downstairs and he'll say, like, what you know, how much did we spend on that bill?
00:15:01.970 --> 00:15:02.850
And I'll be like, I don't know.
00:15:03.009 --> 00:15:04.289
He's like, didn't we just pay it?
00:15:04.450 --> 00:15:07.170
I'm like, yes, but that was 20 seconds ago.
00:15:07.570 --> 00:15:14.370
Let me put this this way there's a reason why I decided to make art my career path and not something like mathematics.
00:15:14.930 --> 00:15:15.250
Yeah.
00:15:15.649 --> 00:15:18.210
And I it's not that the concepts are beyond me.
00:15:18.370 --> 00:15:19.810
I can't hold the numbers.
00:15:20.050 --> 00:15:20.450
I can't.
00:15:20.610 --> 00:15:22.450
And I can't I can't keep them in order.
00:15:22.610 --> 00:15:30.289
It's we it's just a so I I I get the the the having to come up with workarounds.
00:15:30.529 --> 00:15:33.490
Um what has been the feedback?
00:15:33.649 --> 00:15:36.129
What like how how have you how has this been received?
00:15:36.289 --> 00:15:37.810
Because uh we think it's the the thing.
00:15:38.050 --> 00:15:38.690
I think it's amazing.
00:15:38.850 --> 00:15:39.170
Yeah.
00:15:39.490 --> 00:15:40.370
Thank you.
00:15:40.930 --> 00:15:45.009
We we've had nothing but positive from this, honestly.
00:15:45.170 --> 00:15:47.570
It it's been an amazing experience.
00:15:47.810 --> 00:16:00.450
I think some of the best moments are when we've done like book signings, or I I once gave a reading to the school that helped me become remediated in reading and writing, a place called Winward.
00:16:00.930 --> 00:16:17.810
Uh and working with the kids in person and seeing sort of the the happiness and that they I've literally had people come up to me and say it's it's just amazing to see someone like myself in this book.
00:16:18.129 --> 00:16:27.170
And there's really no way to describe that feeling, but it to put it simply, it is it is one I will never forget.
00:16:27.570 --> 00:16:33.009
And Lynn, I mean, obviously you have a career as an attorney.
00:16:33.490 --> 00:16:37.009
Was writing a book ever a thing for you?
00:16:37.170 --> 00:16:43.009
Was this ever an idea, or was this really like COVID-borne?
00:16:43.889 --> 00:16:52.450
Well, you know, to be honest, when I was in college, I was thinking, maybe I'll be a writer, maybe, you know, I took a lot of creative writing classes.
00:16:52.610 --> 00:16:53.090
I loved it.
00:16:53.170 --> 00:16:54.450
I was an English major.
00:16:54.690 --> 00:16:54.850
Okay.
00:16:55.409 --> 00:17:01.250
But but at the time I thought more practically, how can I put a roof over my head?
00:17:01.570 --> 00:17:02.930
So I wasn't sure.
00:17:03.009 --> 00:17:09.809
I I thought maybe I could, you know, do some creative writing on the side and use my writing skills as a lawyer.
00:17:10.049 --> 00:17:11.250
So I did that.
00:17:11.329 --> 00:17:20.129
And then you know what happens, you have plans, but I did not end up uh doing that kind of creative writing till much later.
00:17:20.450 --> 00:17:24.049
And, you know, this seemed like a wonderful opportunity.
00:17:24.289 --> 00:17:27.649
And so, you know, John and I decided to explore it.
00:17:27.730 --> 00:17:41.170
And and as he said, we've had such positive feedback, we've won um book awards and had been on so many wonderful podcasts like this, and really been able to talk to a lot of people.
00:17:41.409 --> 00:17:46.930
And um we just have been really so thrilled with the response.
00:17:47.089 --> 00:17:52.289
And so we decided to write a whole series under the Creative Cab Company logo.
00:17:52.369 --> 00:17:57.250
And as you said, the second book is about Susie, the ADHD taxi.
00:17:57.730 --> 00:18:05.730
So um, and we're hoping, you know, we're we're planning on doing other books, and so we'll see where it goes.
00:18:05.890 --> 00:18:15.170
But as I said, we've had a wonderful positive response to the point where we're selling books and reaching so many people, which was our our dream.
00:18:15.410 --> 00:18:15.650
Yeah.
00:18:15.890 --> 00:18:33.329
So Lynn, when when John was growing up and you had to do the advocacy for him, what did you learn and what do you what wisdom do you have to pass along to parents who are currently advocating for their neurodivergent little ones or or adolescent ones?
00:18:34.049 --> 00:18:34.769
You know what?
00:18:34.849 --> 00:18:37.170
It's it's not an easy path.
00:18:37.250 --> 00:19:01.410
And I think, especially, you know, John is in his later 20s, and back then it was even harder because there was um, well, there was no, you know, I had a dial-up computer, like there was no Google, there was no there were no Facebook groups, I did not have a community, and I didn't know really anybody whose child was, you know, neurodivergent.
00:19:01.490 --> 00:19:05.009
And it also really wasn't, you know, talked about as much.
00:19:05.250 --> 00:19:08.930
You weren't allowed to discuss those things, which is crazy.
00:19:09.170 --> 00:19:11.250
But, you know, nobody did back then.
00:19:11.809 --> 00:19:25.730
And so it was it was difficult because I had as early as you know, when he was three in in his nursery school class, his teacher was saying that he was slow and you know, he should stay back.
00:19:25.890 --> 00:19:29.890
And I'm thinking, no, that is not my child.
00:19:30.049 --> 00:19:34.049
I'm not just a prejudiced mom, but I know that's not my kid.
00:19:34.289 --> 00:19:42.610
He, as he said, he loved Thomas a tank engine and knew every Thomas' uh character's name, but not that Thomas started with the letter T.
00:19:43.089 --> 00:19:46.690
And we know that everyone learns differently.
00:19:46.769 --> 00:19:54.769
I have three much older kids, but I knew John was not hitting the sort of classic uh milestones.
00:19:55.009 --> 00:19:58.769
And so I had to start doing my own investigation.
00:19:59.009 --> 00:20:03.170
I went to the library, I talked to a friend who's a pediatrician.
00:20:03.569 --> 00:20:08.210
The school was most unhelpful even when he got into grade school.
00:20:08.769 --> 00:20:19.410
And it almost to the contrary, and I just knew in my gut that something was just different and needed to be addressed differently.
00:20:19.730 --> 00:20:27.890
So I found uh with the with help, I found someone who would test him because the school wouldn't that's so frustrating.
00:20:28.049 --> 00:20:32.049
That still happens, Lynn, and it drives me bonkers.
00:20:32.130 --> 00:20:42.289
Um, it is something that I still have patients who struggle with that like the school system like won't test a child when there's something going on.
00:20:42.610 --> 00:21:00.529
Um, they're like, you know, oh well they're passing, and it's like, yeah, oh, but like, and something I also always say because it drives me really baddie at work, is like being neurodivergence and intelligence and IQ are very separate things.
00:21:00.690 --> 00:21:08.130
Um they have not like one doesn't equal the other, like, and I hate when it's like, oh, somebody's slow.
00:21:08.289 --> 00:21:09.970
Like, what the heck does that mean?
00:21:10.130 --> 00:21:19.569
Like actually, mom was using a more polite way of yeah, wanna keep it, wanna keep it PG.
00:21:19.890 --> 00:21:24.370
So it was very, very hard.
00:21:24.690 --> 00:21:33.089
And ironically, once I did have him tested and I went into the school with, you know, all the information, they said, we don't buy it.
00:21:33.250 --> 00:21:35.170
We're gonna now we're gonna test him.
00:21:35.329 --> 00:21:37.650
I'm like, too little, too late.
00:21:37.730 --> 00:21:38.769
Like that's still happening.
00:21:39.569 --> 00:21:40.130
Really?
00:21:40.289 --> 00:21:43.890
I'm I was so I I was so unhappy.
00:21:44.049 --> 00:21:52.450
And then the learning specialist said to me quietly, I don't know how to teach a child who's dyslexic.
00:21:53.089 --> 00:21:54.130
And yep.
00:21:54.450 --> 00:21:57.009
And I thought, okay, so now what?
00:21:57.089 --> 00:22:12.210
And so the woman who did the testing had a child who was autistic, had a child with dyslexia, and said to me, There's an amazing school in New York, in Westchester, which is about 45 minutes from where we live.
00:22:12.450 --> 00:22:13.569
You really should look at it.
00:22:13.730 --> 00:22:14.690
John belongs there.
00:22:14.769 --> 00:22:23.890
They teach children who are dyslexic, who have high IQs or or other language-based learning differences, go look at it.
00:22:24.049 --> 00:22:29.490
And so I did, and I thought, oh, if John could go here, you know, this would be amazing.
00:22:29.730 --> 00:22:32.210
And so we had a family meeting.
00:22:32.450 --> 00:22:37.730
And because, you know, I have older kids also, but back then, how are they going to get somewhere?
00:22:37.890 --> 00:22:42.370
I was driving, you know, at least like almost an hour each way.
00:22:42.769 --> 00:22:48.849
And we made a family decision that John really needed to go, you know, private school.
00:22:48.930 --> 00:22:51.569
So we decided we'd all eat a lot of peanut butter and jelly.
00:22:52.529 --> 00:22:55.970
And you know, we really made the family decision.
00:22:56.289 --> 00:23:03.250
And I think once John was admitted, you know, was a process too.
00:23:03.730 --> 00:23:09.410
We were so thrilled because he he met his people, I met people.
00:23:09.569 --> 00:23:13.490
It was finally a really honest conversation.
00:23:13.650 --> 00:23:23.250
You know, he's like, he felt better knowing that, you know, his label, which some people are reticent to do, but I think is important.
00:23:23.730 --> 00:23:29.890
His label gave him the feeling that, wow, it's not my fault.
00:23:30.289 --> 00:23:34.370
And now I'm in a place where I can learn.
00:23:34.769 --> 00:23:40.930
And everybody there was in the same boat, and all the parents had the same story I did.
00:23:41.170 --> 00:23:54.450
And so it was really, really great for us both to find people that we could could communicate with and felt, you know, we had we had compassion for each other.
00:23:55.490 --> 00:24:06.210
John, earlier you were talking about um you know about about helping people see themselves in the book.
00:24:06.450 --> 00:24:17.250
Um and what you just said, Lynn, just like joining the school community gave you the experience that you are hoping to give readers with this book, it sounds like.
00:24:17.490 --> 00:24:17.970
Yes.
00:24:18.370 --> 00:24:18.930
Yeah.
00:24:19.089 --> 00:24:22.930
Um, so how old were you, John, when you transferred to that school?
00:24:23.329 --> 00:24:26.849
Uh I was, I believe, 12 or 13.
00:24:27.089 --> 00:24:27.890
No, seven.
00:24:28.690 --> 00:24:39.089
Speaking of mathing, you were going into six into second grade, so you were six going to be, you know, you were just about seven.
00:24:39.250 --> 00:24:39.650
Not quite.
00:24:40.450 --> 00:24:41.970
My second guess was more correct.
00:24:42.049 --> 00:24:44.130
I don't know why 12 or 13 came from.
00:24:44.450 --> 00:24:47.089
You you left, you left when you were 12.
00:24:47.410 --> 00:24:47.650
Okay.
00:24:47.809 --> 00:24:49.009
Well, I see I got my dates.
00:24:49.490 --> 00:24:51.970
You got your 12, you got the 12 part right, honey.
00:24:52.210 --> 00:24:56.849
So you might not remember the answer to this because you were pretty young when you transferred in.
00:24:57.009 --> 00:25:10.769
But for this, I'm I'm gonna ask a question about what it like, I want to know what it what you remember about feeling about going from one school environment, how that was for you, and then moving into this other school environment.
00:25:10.849 --> 00:25:19.329
Um, in particular, I'm asking because there are parents of kids who are they're trying to make decisions about best schooling experience for their kid.
00:25:19.410 --> 00:25:27.490
And to the extent you can speak from the the child's perspective or to help that give a child a voice, I'm I'm asking if you could could do that.
00:25:28.130 --> 00:25:37.009
Well, surprisingly, even though dates kind of fall out of my head sometimes, the memories of that they do stick around quite well.
00:25:37.410 --> 00:25:44.049
Uh when I was transferring, of course I was I was nervous.
00:25:44.210 --> 00:25:47.250
I was going to a new school in a completely different location.
00:25:47.410 --> 00:25:49.650
It took us 45 minutes to get there.
00:25:49.970 --> 00:25:53.890
It was a completely different teaching method.
00:25:54.210 --> 00:26:03.970
There were a lot of things to be nervous about, but what you gotta realize is while I was at my old school, I was frustrated pretty much constantly.
00:26:04.370 --> 00:26:15.250
There were a lot of like late nights spent with mom and dad just trying to get the the most basic of work done.
00:26:16.049 --> 00:26:18.769
It was honestly infuriating.
00:26:19.329 --> 00:26:29.250
So to end up in this new place, there was some discomfort at first, but I pretty quickly fell into being there.
00:26:29.329 --> 00:26:37.809
And then my annoyances came from basic school stuff, not I can't read and write, and this is the most infuriating thing in my life.
00:26:37.890 --> 00:26:45.410
And I'd I'd much rather just have school drama than doubt myself on a day-to-day basis.
00:26:46.289 --> 00:26:46.930
Then yeah.
00:26:48.450 --> 00:26:53.170
So you you were given the privilege of having um regular kid problems.
00:26:53.569 --> 00:26:54.130
Yes.
00:26:55.009 --> 00:26:58.849
And I hate to say I don't mean that you were an irregular kid.
00:26:58.930 --> 00:27:01.569
I mean the problems you were having were regular.
00:27:01.730 --> 00:27:02.930
That's what I yeah.
00:27:03.170 --> 00:27:03.410
Yeah.
00:27:03.730 --> 00:27:10.130
But when you put the kid in the wrong environment, or an environment that can't support a child.
00:27:10.849 --> 00:27:12.289
The orchid doesn't bloom.
00:27:12.529 --> 00:27:14.769
No, you're in the crack.
00:27:15.490 --> 00:27:18.049
And it's so it's very hard.
00:27:18.130 --> 00:27:25.490
And I would say, I think I zigged and zagged when you asked me, you know, what would you tell parents?
00:27:25.650 --> 00:27:31.009
And I would say, you really have to listen to your gut and listen to your child.
00:27:31.250 --> 00:27:36.690
And not just what they're saying verbally, but also, you know, maybe the nonverbal cues.
00:27:37.329 --> 00:27:44.930
John, you know, was I was told before he transferred to Winward, I was told, you know, John's a problem child.
00:27:45.009 --> 00:27:46.769
He gets up and he wanders around.
00:27:46.849 --> 00:27:49.250
And I'm like, that doesn't sound like my child.
00:27:49.410 --> 00:27:51.009
He's not a problem anything.
00:27:51.329 --> 00:27:57.569
And, you know, obviously no one's perfect, but I knew that that didn't sound correct.
00:27:57.809 --> 00:27:59.650
And so John and I talked about it.
00:27:59.730 --> 00:28:05.410
And he said, Mom, I get up because she's asking me to read a book and I can't read it, and it's really embarrassing.
00:28:06.450 --> 00:28:12.210
So that those kinds of things I think parents really need to listen to.
00:28:12.450 --> 00:28:24.049
And if they don't test you, you know, there are other ways in the school system which, you know, are more of a process, but you need to try to advocate as best you can.
00:28:24.210 --> 00:28:28.130
Sometimes there are advocates you can speak with that can help you.
00:28:28.289 --> 00:28:43.809
You know, different school systems have different approaches, but don't let the talking heads tell you, you know, that there's a problem that you don't think is really the answer to what's going on with your child.
00:28:44.610 --> 00:28:45.089
Yeah.
00:28:45.410 --> 00:28:45.730
Yeah.
00:28:45.890 --> 00:29:01.730
That's, I mean, uh as a therapist, I often say, hey, listen, I I know patterns and I I know developmental norms and I know communication styles, but I do not know you if I'm talking to a kid or client, or if I'm talking to a parent, I don't know your child.
00:29:02.210 --> 00:29:05.569
Therefore, this is this must be a collaboration.
00:29:06.370 --> 00:29:15.809
It can't just be me talking from on high because you I'm not the ticket to your intu to the internal workings of my client, whether that's a a a child or the parent of a child.
00:29:16.289 --> 00:29:18.130
Tell parents all the time, like, trust your gut.
00:29:18.690 --> 00:29:28.049
Like, if something does not feel right, I don't care what so and so said or what the school said, like what is your gut telling you?
00:29:28.210 --> 00:29:32.849
Like, I say to parents all the time, I'm like, like, you know your child best.
00:29:33.089 --> 00:29:35.650
So, like, what what is it?
00:29:35.809 --> 00:29:39.329
Like, you know, it you might get a label that's wrong.
00:29:39.490 --> 00:29:49.730
Like being told your kid is slow when they actually have a learning difference is, you know, very different kind of connotation there.
00:29:50.130 --> 00:29:51.089
It sure is.
00:29:51.490 --> 00:30:04.529
And and and so many neurodivergent uh issues, differences have the at the core that the IQ is very high.
00:30:04.769 --> 00:30:17.970
It just they, you know, you know better than I do, but I would say all the kids at Winward were that were with John had to have a high enough IQ to be able to learn how they were going to teach them.
00:30:18.210 --> 00:30:21.890
And so when people say, Oh, I'm so sorry, I'm like, why?
00:30:22.130 --> 00:30:26.529
John thinks it, you know, John thinks it's a superpower, right?
00:30:26.769 --> 00:30:28.690
He just needed to learn differently.
00:30:28.849 --> 00:30:30.210
And now look at him.
00:30:30.370 --> 00:30:35.569
He's amazing and creative and empathetic, and you know, it's who he is.
00:30:35.730 --> 00:30:43.009
It's not, it's only a problem if you don't help that person to to be the best they can be.
00:30:43.250 --> 00:30:43.490
Yes.
00:30:43.809 --> 00:30:53.490
And I think we've talked about, oh, sorry, John, like on our episodes about ADHD, like we talk about the superpowers of ADHD.
00:30:53.650 --> 00:31:01.490
And like those kids typically have they're they're creative, they're funny, like there's lots of other things.
00:31:01.569 --> 00:31:09.490
Like, it's not a defining moment just because they might need support in a different way.
00:31:11.410 --> 00:31:22.289
And all I was gonna add to that was being at I'm currently at SAIC in Chicago getting my MFA.
00:31:22.769 --> 00:31:34.849
And the amount of people here who are somewhere on the neurodivergent spectrum is so common, it's frankly almost uncommon if you don't have anything.
00:31:35.490 --> 00:31:41.490
And these are some of the most creative and unique and interesting people you can meet.
00:31:41.809 --> 00:31:47.250
So I I stand by that superpower phrase quite readily.
00:31:48.529 --> 00:31:56.210
John, when you left you, so you were 12 when you left when we're and and did you go then back into a traditional school setting?
00:31:56.529 --> 00:31:57.089
Yes.
00:31:57.569 --> 00:31:58.769
And did you no?
00:31:58.930 --> 00:31:59.490
Yes, no?
00:31:59.730 --> 00:32:00.370
No, no, I didn't.
00:32:00.930 --> 00:32:03.329
It was traditional, but it was it was also private.
00:32:03.490 --> 00:32:04.690
That's all I was gonna qualify.
00:32:05.089 --> 00:32:07.009
Yeah, so I'm sorry, Johnny, finish.
00:32:08.690 --> 00:32:21.329
Um I was gonna ask, did you feel like because of the type of teaching you'd received and the learning you'd done, did you feel equipped to go into your new school environment, which obviously was selected with care by your family?
00:32:22.529 --> 00:32:32.610
Yes, no, I I left Winworth with all the techniques and strengths I needed to succeed in these other programs.
00:32:32.930 --> 00:32:37.569
And of course, there was still a bit of a learning difference, uh, learning gap.
00:32:37.730 --> 00:32:52.450
I mean, being in a new school again and sort of relearning basic things because they did do things differently, but I had the skills, so I was able to get through it without any real issue.
00:32:52.769 --> 00:33:01.089
I think about because I said I in when I was introducing myself before we started recording, I I spent 26 years in schools, middle and high school.
00:33:01.329 --> 00:33:07.650
And we would get and different, a variety of different, all of them independent, just that ended up being my my trajectory.
00:33:07.970 --> 00:33:21.490
Um and in the independent schools, not all of them, but some that we that I worked in, we would take kids who came from um some one school I worked in took kids with who came from therapeutic settings.
00:33:21.890 --> 00:33:23.089
And this isn't the same.
00:33:23.170 --> 00:33:35.490
I'm not I'm not likening neurodivergent um specific education to a mental health condition, but I'm likening the training that you receive in programs that are specific for your needs.
00:33:35.569 --> 00:33:37.089
That's what that's where this is going.
00:33:37.490 --> 00:33:46.049
Um and I would get those kids as ninth graders as of the counselor, which is my role, and they had so many tools.
00:33:46.289 --> 00:33:58.849
So, yes, they had left a therapeutic environment, but they also tended to be some of the best at managing their emotions and managing the big stuff that school threw their way because they had been explicitly taught this stuff.
00:33:59.650 --> 00:34:03.490
And and what you're saying, it sounds to me you had a similar experience.
00:34:03.650 --> 00:34:16.610
It wasn't about mental health tools, it was about learning tools, but you had spent time exposed to specific, you know, ways of manipulating what you were being exposed to so that your brain could grasp it.
00:34:16.929 --> 00:34:23.170
My question for you is did you did you embrace your your label?
00:34:23.329 --> 00:34:25.089
Like like you we talked about this earlier.
00:34:25.170 --> 00:34:30.769
Did you did when you went into middle school, which is like such a like who wants to go back there, right?
00:34:30.929 --> 00:34:42.929
Like you know, and and everyone's mission in middle school is is to fit in in some way, and um you were adapting as a new student to a new middle school.
00:34:44.289 --> 00:34:49.409
Like, did you go in kind of advocating for yourself to say, like, hey, I I have dyslexia?
00:34:49.569 --> 00:34:53.969
This means I have to learn differently, or did you kind of keep that on the DL?
00:34:54.929 --> 00:35:02.210
I I definitely for things like extra time, that sort of stuff, I would go for, I would advocate for it, I'd go get it.
00:35:02.449 --> 00:35:05.490
I felt like it was a right I deserved.
00:35:05.650 --> 00:35:09.809
Now I wasn't going in the hallway and just telling people I felt sick.
00:35:09.889 --> 00:35:11.650
But if someone asked, why do you have extra time?
00:35:11.730 --> 00:35:16.130
I'd be like, Oh, I have dyslexia, and I'd go on to explain what that means.
00:35:16.210 --> 00:35:22.289
Because a lot of people would just think it is thinking a B and a D are the same thing because it's backwards.
00:35:22.530 --> 00:35:32.130
But it's it's a lot more complicated than that, and then it would create discussion, and that's one of the other reasons why we even created the book to create discussion.
00:35:33.090 --> 00:35:50.610
So and and so it sounds like another outgrowth of your going to a school that was suitable for you is you got to grow into self-acceptance that might not have happened if you'd stayed in the school where it was such a a mismatch environmentally.
00:35:51.329 --> 00:35:52.369
Most likely, yeah.
00:35:52.849 --> 00:36:16.610
Uh I can't stress enough how much how foundational that that experience or of self-acceptance were we're whatever your schooling needs may be, um we do kids such a service when we can offer them a way to embrace who they are and see a path forward for themselves with with like glee and enthusiasm, right?
00:36:16.769 --> 00:36:19.889
Um and to own who they are without apology.
00:36:20.130 --> 00:36:26.769
And uh and that doesn't we owe that to seven-year-olds, we owe that to 12-year-olds, we owe that to 17-year-olds.
00:36:26.849 --> 00:36:31.409
I and I feel like as a therapist, we owe that to, you know, everybody deserves that.
00:36:31.650 --> 00:36:43.889
Um so what a gift that that you were able to receive, and what a gift that you and your mom have have turned that experience into for the world.
00:36:44.849 --> 00:36:45.409
Thank you.
00:36:45.570 --> 00:36:45.889
Thank you.
00:36:46.130 --> 00:36:49.809
And when John left Windward, he could have gone to any school anywhere.
00:36:49.889 --> 00:36:53.409
He could read better than quite a few people.
00:36:53.650 --> 00:37:00.130
And the school he went to was a school that was celebrating the arts.
00:37:00.289 --> 00:37:05.329
He had a, you know, he had to do all the curriculum, he took a language, like he did everything.
00:37:05.409 --> 00:37:09.250
And he didn't ask for anything except more time.
00:37:09.730 --> 00:37:15.170
And quite frankly, he didn't even always need it, but he he had he had earned that, as he said.
00:37:15.329 --> 00:37:36.369
And I I think it is important because if you give people, kids, the tools, then, you know, to the best of your means, I think then they can find the courage and you know, the the fortitude to to be who they are and be proud of that.
00:37:36.769 --> 00:37:45.170
And I think the success is just take a look at the cover of the book, and John's success is plastered all over it in beautiful illustrations.
00:37:45.409 --> 00:37:45.889
Thank you.
00:37:46.050 --> 00:37:48.050
Um you're welcome.
00:37:48.289 --> 00:37:50.210
Um we have the other one here.
00:37:50.369 --> 00:37:51.170
This is Susie.
00:37:51.329 --> 00:37:53.090
Oh, and Susie's pink.
00:37:53.329 --> 00:37:58.050
Susie is pink, and Susie is also as cute as Robbie.
00:37:58.369 --> 00:38:02.530
Um, I can't wait to see future books from you guys.
00:38:02.769 --> 00:38:07.010
Um for our listeners, where can they find you guys?
00:38:07.170 --> 00:38:12.769
Where can we purchase um the books and future publications too?
00:38:14.210 --> 00:38:18.210
So we we would absolutely love to hear from everybody.
00:38:18.369 --> 00:38:25.409
We are on almost every social media platform um under the Creative Cab Company logo.
00:38:25.889 --> 00:38:36.289
You we have a website, you can DM us, you can uh email us through, you know, either, you can go buy it on Amazon.
00:38:36.530 --> 00:38:41.809
Um if you go to your local bookstore and don't find it, you can ask them and they can order it.
00:38:41.969 --> 00:38:44.130
So there are many ways to do it.
00:38:44.289 --> 00:38:53.010
If you're having trouble and want it, like I said, email us or DM us and we would be happy to help you and come, you know, talk about it.
00:38:53.409 --> 00:38:57.250
We we love to go to schools and to bookstores.
00:38:57.490 --> 00:39:05.809
So we really enjoy the back and forth with people who have had a similar experience or who have read the book and enjoy it.
00:39:06.050 --> 00:39:07.809
So come find us.
00:39:08.369 --> 00:39:27.889
Thank you so much for sharing your story and for writing very much needed books um so that kids can feel accepted and know that there's other people out there like them and that with the right tools they will be just fine and successful, just like John is.
00:39:29.010 --> 00:39:29.570
Thank you.
00:39:29.809 --> 00:39:34.369
It's so wonderful to talk to talk on these, you know, podcasts like yours.
00:39:34.530 --> 00:39:39.010
And and uh I think it's really important to keep the conversation going.
00:39:39.329 --> 00:39:40.289
So thank you.
00:39:40.530 --> 00:39:41.170
You're welcome.
00:39:41.490 --> 00:39:46.449
To our listeners, we thank you for tuning in to another episode of Parenting Shrinkwrapp.
00:39:46.610 --> 00:39:50.929
As always, we also thank you for raising the next generation of world changers.
00:39:51.090 --> 00:39:53.090
We love you, we love your kids.
00:39:59.570 --> 00:40:05.250
Thanks for joining us on this wild ride called Parenthood here at Parenting Shrinkwrapp.
00:40:05.409 --> 00:40:13.889
We hope today's episode gave you some useful tools and maybe even a few laughs to help you navigate the twists and turns of raising teens and kids.
00:40:14.289 --> 00:40:18.449
Remember, parenting is a journey, not a destination.
00:40:18.690 --> 00:40:23.730
And no matter where you are on the road, we're here to help you stay on course.
00:40:23.889 --> 00:40:31.570
Whether it's monumental meltdowns, teenage turmoil, or just the everyday chaos, you don't have to travel this path alone.
00:40:31.889 --> 00:40:37.329
So until next time, keep your seatbelt fastened, your sense of humor intact, and your eyes on the road.
00:40:37.490 --> 00:40:43.090
We'll be back soon with more compassionate conversations and practical strategies to support you and your family.
00:40:43.409 --> 00:40:49.889
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00:40:50.130 --> 00:40:55.490
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00:40:55.809 --> 00:41:04.849
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00:41:05.170 --> 00:41:09.250
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