Iranian-American, Unapologetic, and Unfiltered: Elica Le Bon

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You know why I am against jihadis and communists and
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all of these things. The reason that I'm against it
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is because I'm from the Middle East. And guess what
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this is? What it means to care about Middle Eastern people?
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Why should there be this worldview that, oh, but you're
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all just oppressed people, so you should remain oppressed, to
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remain true to your culture. That's not my culture. Nobody's
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culture is death. Nobody's culture is starvation, nobody's culture's murder. Okay,
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this idea that this is a culture, This is a
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system that works for human beings and if we deserve it,
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they deserve it. Took it.
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Sounds like you sound like an international assassin.
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I might be.
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I might be. Well, can you tell us a little bit.
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I came across you just listening to your you know,
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your your Instagram and how you were pretty unapologetic about
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where you stand and there's no confusion with you, and
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I'm sure in a lot of ways you feel like
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you're sort of fighting this thing single. So can you
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tell us your background what you do?
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You're a lawyer, Yes, I'm a lawyer.
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So I was born in London. My parents are from Iran,
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so they left after the revolution or I guess. My
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dad left just before he was studying in the UK,
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Oxford doing his PhD. And my mom and her family
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left after the revolution after things got you know, crazy, bloody.
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They were in prison and everything. My family were executed
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and yes, yes.
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And were they Jewish? No they were not. Are you shere, Yes, yes, yes,
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we thought you were. I thought you were Jewish for sure.
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No, I know everyone thinks that.
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And you are a Shia. I'm not, I'm saying, but
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your your family.
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Is historically we come from Shia Muslim family.
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I am amazed. I thought, I'm sure you were. I know. Okay,
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So that is very interesting.
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Yeah, that's I think that's what makes it so interesting.
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Yeah.
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People are like, wait, we thought only Jews understood the
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Jewish experience, and it's like, no, because we've seen what
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the Middle East does on the other end of it, right, Yeah,
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so you might know the story of experiencing that, But
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there are also people who know the story of witnessing
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that happening to me.
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Right now in Syria, you know, with the Alo whites
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and the people loyal to assade, the people who are
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part of the new government, the Christian minorities and things
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like that. The Middle East, as somebody who's lived there
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is didn't need any didn't need Israel to be at
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war all the time she has, soonly divide is very
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very significant, right, And it's all.
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As a pretext, by the way, Israel is a pretext
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for the expansion of jihadis regimes that have no other
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means to justify their violence other than saying that they're
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responding to Western imperialism in the form of Israel, right right,
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the pretext.
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Yeah, so you how did you start? What? What what
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was the motivation to kind of start taking to Instagram?
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And what kind of lawyer are you? You got your
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law degree?
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Now I'm not practicing. I recently stopped practicing. I was
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actually doing criminal defense first wow, which was so much fun.
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Yea in Orange County, So I was having I mean
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it was great because I was in court every single
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day and I learned a lot.
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I mean, you learn a lot.
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Especially about extemporaneous speaking when you're in front of a
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jarge that's shouting at you based on anything that you say.
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So you have to always know your facts. You have
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to know the law, you have to know the sources.
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You cannot step into a courtroom and not know what
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you're talking about, especially when somebody's life depends on it.
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You're an effective debater.
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Oh yeah, you are.
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You're so clear. You're so clear in how you speak,
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but more importantly where you.
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Stand, because because that's the training that that I have, right,
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But the clarity is a different issue, which we'll get to.
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But so I was practicing, and then so after twenty
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twenty two, there was this revolution that sparked up in Iran.
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I don't know if you remember the girl Massoghina Amini.
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She was killed for showing some of her hair not
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covering with her job. And I started speaking about Iran
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at that time. So that was about three years ago,
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and I noticed, you know, it was good in the
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sense that people understood back then, they understood, okay, this
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is a terrorist regime. And then what happened is October
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seventh happened. And I remember vividly just anticipating that I
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was only just gonna have to say a couple of words.
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I was just going to be like, so, guys, you know, terrorists,
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as we've discussed, moving on, and then people were like,
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oh no, no, no, these these guys are the freedom fighters.
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And I was like, oh, oh no, oh no, And
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then I thought, maye, okay, give it a couple of weeks.
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They just don't know anything about this, and that they
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were going to figure it out, and they didn't. So
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then it became long term investment for me to try
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and basically debunk this theory that g hadis are resistance
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or freedom fighters in any way.
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Brian count you know that this is what so I,
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as somebody who lived in the Middle East for a
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long time, you know, I've always been very sympathetic to
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the Palestinian cause, the Arabs of the Levant, you know,
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who were under Ottoman So you got to go back.
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And the problem with most people is they are coming
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into this debate in the eleventh hour and what they're
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seeing is horrible things in Gaza. The fact that the
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Israelis came in and you essentially wiped out, you know,
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all of northern Gaza. This has been terrible for the
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Jewish diaspora. It's been terrible, I think for Israel. And
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I think you are excused as a human being for
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looking at all those children and families. I think it's
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a thousand extended families completely wiped out and saying this
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cannot stand. This is this. I am standing with the
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Palestinian people, who are people. And then there's the gangster
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organization called Hamas that is supported by Hesbela, which is
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supported by Iran, and that's a whole different subject and
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a whole different conversation. And what you'll get a lot
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of times is people saying, well, you know, they it
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is in Hamas and Hesbela's interest to have as many
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dead Palestinian children as possible, and it is it's a
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brutal way of uh, It's a brutal prchet exactly. But
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what I what I try to always look at is
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the history here. And if you put me in a
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time machine, as somebody is very sympathetic to the Arabs
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and grew up around them and has nothing but positive experiences.
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They were under Ottoman rule, they were under British rule,
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they were under French rule. Uh. And and then the
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then you've got to take in the massive amounts of
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anti Semitism in Russia, Germany, Poland, and.
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Of course World War in the Middle East, of course.
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And then World War Two. So the Jews were given,
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you know, of Europe, were given nowhere to go after
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the Holocaust, after that decimation, and so from the.
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Middle East, right, nine hundred and fifty thousand of them
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expelled out of the Middle East, exactly, expelled out of
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Europe nowhere.
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When I lived in Saudi Arabia, Jews were not allowed
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to be They were not allowed in Saudi Arabia. I
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remember that very well when I lived there, and people
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should know this and it's very recent that the House
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of so the House of Islam allows Jews because they
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were expelled, because the Jews were always protected by the
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Muslim community, even though as DIMIs right, but there were
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people of the Book and stuff like that. But when
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I lived in Saudi Arabia, there were no Jews in
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Saudi Arabia, none, and they weren't allowed in.
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And I think that's really an important thing for people
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to understand that based on their expulsion out of the
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Middle East, because you know, just to clarify what Adimi
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is if people don't know, it's essentially a second class citizen. So, yes,
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they do enjoy protection as being people of the Book,
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but that protection is conditional on meeting certain conditions such
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as paying these taxes, such as they weren't allowed to
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have property, such as they weren't allowed to ride horses,
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et cetera. That includes Persians or Austrians, Christians, they were
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all Dimies as well. But based on after the collapse
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of the Ottoman Empire, if we were going to apportion
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the land, and just to be clear, if people don't
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know what the Ottoman Empire was, it basically essentially it
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was not the Yeah, it was a caliphate. It was
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a caliphate that spread across the Middle East and North
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Africa that had the caliph as one ruler essentially, so
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these weren't these were individual provinces. There weren't countries with
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sovereign borders.
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Right.
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So then at the collapse of the caliphate, when we
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went into the state building process, which was essentially most
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of the twentieth century, you know, the land that should
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have been apportioned to the Jews, based on their population,
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should be seven times larger than Israel, right, right, so
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they actually had to sacrifice what would have been what
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should have been apportioned to them, right, whereas everybody else
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in the Middle got the land that they that they wanted.
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And so it's just interesting that even this tiny amount
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of land, right that's still significantly smaller than what should
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have been apportioned to them. It's it makes people so
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angry that they even have the right to be there.
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So in other in other words, what they're saying is
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that you just shouldn't exist, right, you should be sorry,
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gassed out of Europe, chased out of Middle East, have
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no land anywhere, and basically just die.
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Or there's a lot of people who I know who
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are new to this.
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They say, Uganda.
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Well, that's that was believe it or not the early Zionists.
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That's right. We're thinking about actually you settling you Ganda
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as the promise.
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Which is crazy, but that's not a problem for you.
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So interesting, Yeah, I remember that.
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That was one of the funny things that people Why
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couldn't they go to you? Gets like, okay, why don't
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you go to you?
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I got no idea how to navigate. You've got don't
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swim in the water because crocodiles every I mean, you know,
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all right, Uganda. But by the way, it might have
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been easier in some ways.
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But but yeah, not being around anti Semites probably would
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have been easier.
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Well, but this is the first time in my lifetime
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where anti Semitism and anti Israel voicing your your your
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sort of anti Israel sentiments is gone mainstream. You hear
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it all the time, and that's an interesting thing to me,
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you know, because a lot of you'll hear a lot
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of Americans say, and people I know will say, well,
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who says they have to have a homeland? How about
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the United States? They've been there for a long time,
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they're protected here, And I think that's right. I think
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if you're Jewish, all you have to do is go on.
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These guys were streaming the UFC when I was doing
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stand up in Illinois and I came back and these
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all these guys who worked in the club were streaming
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the UFC because the espn AT went down, so they
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illegally streamed it. And they were like they had to
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turn off the comments because you could see the comments
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because he's like, bro, the comments are literally things like
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kill all the Jews, et cetera. It was. It was
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a it was a ticker tape parade of anti Semitism.
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And these guys were just guys kids from Ohio. We're like, bro,
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we had to shut it out. It was crazy and
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it became a side show to the fights. And so
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I think if you were Jewish and you had had
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the experience of the pagrams of of your entire history
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and of course the Holocaust, if you don't have a homeland,
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but what happens. I'll tell you what happens. It's not
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a homeland if you don't have a nation state, because
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if you have a homeland, then then your Tibet, then
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you're Cheshna. Then you're all these other countries that you know,
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this is terrible. What what do you look what you're
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doing to the Kords. Well, all that happens is the
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un goes. We condemned this and you get gas.
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Useless, it's useless.
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If you're a nation state, now you have the protection
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of the world, who comes to your defense, You have
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alliance and stuff like that. So that was very.
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Important, well, or even protection from the nation itself.
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Right, And it's it's funny you should mention that because
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that was always the explanation for why Jews were subjected
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to genocide in persecution everywhere they went, was that they
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didn't have a nation to protect them.
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Yeah, right, exactly, So of course the states became the
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only place that they could. Yeah.
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But it's not the same, right, because look at the
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way things are now. The only protection I think they
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realized over time was just a Jewish majority.
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State, right.
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And that's so sad, Like how many thousands of years
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you tried to be around others and they didn't accept you,
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So you really have no choice but to create your
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own state. It's not it's not for lack of trying, right,
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And I think I just you know, all of this
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goes back to this rise in anti Semitism, kind of
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leads into my theory.
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About October seventh in the first place.
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Which is that you know, I don't think that Harmas
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believed that it was going to defeat Israel on October seventh.
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Clearly it didn't, right, And this is a well strategized plan.
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And as you mentioned, they are backed by the regime
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in Iran, and this was a ten year long operation.
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So incidentally, and let's not get too into things, but incidentally,
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about ten years ago was what the JCPO way where
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Obama gave one hundred and fifty billion dollars in frozen assets.
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To the regime.
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Was that ten years ago twenty fifteen, Wow, yeahest which
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which Iran.
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Because the idea was, you know, you guys would fund
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in your nuclear program. You're being man.
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That was well, yes, they that was sort of the
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plan containing the nuclear program, except that the agreement had
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sunset provisions which would only last ten to fifteen years anyway,
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and then they could continue to enrich and then they
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would be one hundred and fifty billion dollars richer. So
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it was very much a kicking the can down the
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road issue. But anyway, we obviously knew that this regime
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is then going to continue to fund and train its proxies,
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namely hermas, Hesbel, et cetera. So what's interesting to me
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is that it's very clear her Mass didn't think was
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going to defeat Israel on October seventh, But what it
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did was capture a couple of hundred hostages that would
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make it so that Israel had to go into Gaza, right, there's.
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No other option.
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And then her mass buries itself every single place that
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would be the worst place to strike, right, not necessarily
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around schools, okay, around schools, in hospitals, children's bedrooms, inside toys.
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So it gets to the point where her Mass is directing, right,
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this strikes, directing the strikes, and then the strikes happen,
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and the entire world says, Israel's the worst place in
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the world. Jews are the worst people in the world.
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And so that is the success of October sevens is
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the pr war that makes everybody. And then what happens
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is that Israel's turned into a pariah state. Right, it's
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an enemy of the international community. And that's how her
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mask wins.
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That's right, that's exactly right. I have to say there's
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a grudging admiration for like the way they've been able
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to turn the entire world against Israel, including for the
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first time half of the United States.
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It's crazy, but it's it's so weird because you just
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are like anything they say, right, They'll show you a
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picture of Gaza and they'll be.
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Like, how can you excuse this?
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Like, it's not excusing it, it's knowing what the causes,
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which is Hamas. How do you not see that Harmas
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has buried itself here? Why the strikes are you don't
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think this is her Mass's fault? Like, how do you
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not have that moral clarity?
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Well? I think people are. You know, people thought that
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the reaction the idea that made it's always been Israel's
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policy to make the price of Jewish blood very, very expensive.
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Because if you don't create, if you don't basically say,
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if you think there's any profit in doing this to us,
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if you think there's any prophit hesbela in invading the North,
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Hammas invading the South, We're going to show you that
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you're going to pay for it with your own lives
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and your very network. And if you don't have that
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real politique. If you don't have that vicious sort of
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you know mine in the stand, you're gonna gets it's
352
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going to be a bad day. And so in many ways,
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you know, I think that for someone like Benny, I mean,
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I have Golant whatever his name is, and you know
355
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all those guys in the war room, these old I
356
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always say, if I was Palestinian, I would probably hate Israel.
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If I was ISRAELI I would probably I would probably
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be backing the regime because it's the only way I
359
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would feel I could survive as a man if I
360
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got my family. There there's a great saying about Israel.
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People have had to be, People had to forego who
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they could be for who they have to be. And
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sometimes you are in a part of the world where
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you have to embrace the angels of your darker nature
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or more practical nature, or physics. Sheer physics is the
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only law of the land, you.
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Know, And I think the one of the major problems
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that we're facing is that, and I mean, I'm starting
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to realize how much of a problem this is and
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how much a problem it has been. Is that people
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just believe propaganda. Right, So it's like anything that her
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mask comes out and says, or you know, Nygiad, this
373
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group comes out and says, people believe it, right. So,
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like one example of that is when people talk about
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Islama bin Laden's letter to America and I'm like, but
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you understand that that's propaganda, right, And they're like, yeah,
377
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but it's but it's true. I'm like, Okay, sure it's true,
378
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but do you understand that Osama bin Laden was a
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terrorist who was harming the people he claimed to be
380
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acting on behalf of So he would say in his letter, Oh,
381
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this is what you did to Yemeny's he was exploding
382
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Yemen's right. Do you not understand what propaganda is? Propaganda
383
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is something that might be true, but it's taken out
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of context or framed in a certain way in order
385
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to achieve a political objective. So when you're talking about
386
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:05.279
what the jihadas said or what the terrorist said, and
387
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you're believing that, right, and then you're fact checking and
388
00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:10.759
you're like, ah, yeah, well, I guess America was in
389
00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:13.680
Yemen at this point, and so maybe he has a point,
390
00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:16.319
but you don't understand that he has no point because
391
00:20:16.319 --> 00:20:19.200
he is the terrorist, right, and he's using these points
392
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to justify his actions. And so I think the problem
393
00:20:23.480 --> 00:20:26.519
with it, especially in the Middle East, is that people
394
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don't understand that there is this long history of anti
395
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:33.839
Semitism and that there are a faction subset of people
396
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in the Middle East who will literally die just to
397
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:40.400
kill Jews. They will sacrifice their lives, their children's lives,
398
00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:42.880
and they're never they're so radicalized that they make it
399
00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:47.960
their life's mission. But people will just believe when, you know,
400
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:49.680
when they come out and say, oh, this is just
401
00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:52.359
about the occupation, people are like, I think that's what
402
00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:55.160
this is about, because they don't understand that there's more
403
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:56.920
to it and this is you know what they're going
404
00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:57.480
to tell you.
405
00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:01.480
Yeah, But I do think it's important and to tackle
406
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:06.039
and to give credence to the idea that when you
407
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:11.720
create desperation, when you create a place like Gaza, which
408
00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.599
has been essentially under a blockade, you know, in a
409
00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:19.119
lot of ways and everything is controlled by Israel, of course,
410
00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:23.359
but but at the same time the the one it's
411
00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:27.079
very difficult. I'm always quiet. My buddy's Afghani Muslim, and
412
00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:29.000
he said, I don't know what to say. I said,
413
00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:32.000
you might want to say something like, sometimes I find
414
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:36.039
myself shaking my head and saying a prayer because I
415
00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:41.640
don't know. When I study the history of what happened
416
00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:45.200
to the Arabs in the Levant, it's very I'm very
417
00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.920
sympathetic to how horribly they were treated by the British,
418
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:53.400
how horribly they were treated by the Ottomans, the Syrians,
419
00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:57.079
with the French, it was not a good time. And
420
00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:59.759
and and so they never had a chance. A lot
421
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:02.440
of them subsistence farmers, a lot of them were Bedouin.
422
00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:11.480
And along comes these very modernized intellectual Jews who had
423
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.240
deep ties to Britain and were very effective at using
424
00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:19.839
British influence and power in helping them establish this state.
425
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:22.000
And then of course turned on well they did then
426
00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:23.839
they then they actually kicked the British out.
427
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:24.200
Yeah.
428
00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:26.680
Well, the Brits also sided with the Arabs in many ways.
429
00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:31.000
They didn't really significantly limited Jewish immigration to the to
430
00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:32.799
the extent that they were being sent back to the
431
00:22:32.839 --> 00:22:33.680
gas chambers.
432
00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:36.640
That's right, That's exactly right. But then you know, you
433
00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:40.119
had David Bengurion and Kaim Weitzman who were friends with
434
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:44.599
Disraeli and they they they also owned the Guardian you know,
435
00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:48.279
when I say they, I mean Jews that were sympathetic
436
00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:51.319
to the Zionist cause. So it was a very tough
437
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:55.799
thing for the Arabs who were not sophisticated back then. Yes,
438
00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:57.720
and that's what I'm saying is so people who are
439
00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:00.279
pro Palestinian, A lot of people who are are not
440
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:02.680
a pro Hamas, but you can be sympathetic.
441
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:05.079
Yeah, just to touch on that. You know, I think
442
00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:09.960
what the failure was at that time was the radicalized
443
00:23:10.079 --> 00:23:13.240
leadership that was making decisions on behalf of Palestinians which
444
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:17.680
ended up harming them. Like a classic example is when
445
00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:20.119
you had one of the offers for statehood for Palestinian
446
00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:23.799
statehood was nineteen thirty nine, I think it was the
447
00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:26.039
White Papers, and the offer was that it was going
448
00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:29.519
to be a Palestinian state, an Arab Muslim Palestinian state,
449
00:23:29.880 --> 00:23:32.799
and there was going to be ten thousand Jews that
450
00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:37.240
were permitted to come to Palestine each year during this
451
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:41.160
immigration crisis, it was seventy five thousand total, right, Okay,
452
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:43.680
well ten thousand each year, and then seventy five thousand total,
453
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:46.119
and there would be no partition of the land. And
454
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then then Arabs would have the discretion of whether to
455
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:53.200
allow Jews after that. Now, moderate Arab leadership wanted to
456
00:23:53.240 --> 00:23:56.279
accept that offer, right, I mean, first of all, Israel
457
00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:59.240
didn't accept it, so it doesn't matter. Moderate Arab leadership
458
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:00.920
wanted to accept that offer. But then you had the
459
00:24:01.000 --> 00:24:05.400
radicalized leadership like the Grandmifty of Jerusalem who was meeting
460
00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:08.559
with Hitler that was just essentially like, no Jews on
461
00:24:08.599 --> 00:24:10.599
this land because we want to end Jews. And so
462
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:14.759
it was that blood lost for ending Jews entirely that
463
00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:18.279
led to the compromise of a Palestinian state. So it's
464
00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:23.160
always it's always an anti Semitism that's interrupting or frustrating
465
00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:27.039
the process of Palestinian statehood. And people don't understand that history,
466
00:24:27.160 --> 00:24:30.279
you know, not had that antisemitism not been a thing,
467
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.599
they would have accepted a state at that point, and
468
00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:35.839
this whole thing would have been you know, redundant.
469
00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:41.960
You know, that point can be argued, but this is
470
00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:44.680
what happens with this debate is you have scholars that
471
00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:46.799
would push back on that, and then you'd have your
472
00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:49.640
scholarship push back on that. And my thing about this,
473
00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:54.400
you know, this conflict is it depending on where you're
474
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:57.079
standing and what you've read and what you think, and
475
00:24:57.119 --> 00:24:59.079
you can be Jewish, you can be she a Muslim
476
00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:00.960
like you. I mean, you come from tradition in order,
477
00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:03.720
and everybody's going to have a different point of view.
478
00:25:03.880 --> 00:25:07.279
And sometimes I just think that, and so it goes
479
00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:11.119
like we're having this talk and it's like nothing is
480
00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:12.920
going to get solved. Somebody said, the only person to
481
00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:15.279
solve this is God. If you read the Old Testament,
482
00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:17.920
Gods has mentioned probably I don't know. I just read
483
00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:25.039
it again. It's mentioned probably, I don't know, thirteen times
484
00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:27.000
at least as a place you don't want to be,
485
00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:29.000
you know, because it didn't have a lot of water
486
00:25:29.079 --> 00:25:31.160
and it was, you know, kind of a sun baked
487
00:25:31.160 --> 00:25:33.480
part of the world. So I don't know, man, I
488
00:25:34.359 --> 00:25:37.400
find myself. But what I appreciate about what you do
489
00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:41.559
is you are there to kind of say, hold on,
490
00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:43.640
there is a right and a wrong, there is a
491
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:47.319
way to do things, and we have to do that.
492
00:25:47.759 --> 00:25:50.839
You cannot be sort of like general about this because
493
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:53.359
if you don't do that, the world will sort its
494
00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:54.240
way out anyway.
495
00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:56.200
And that's kind of what's happening.
496
00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:58.319
It is, and I think this is kind of really
497
00:25:58.359 --> 00:26:01.599
the main point is that it's not about the facts anymore. Yeah, right, right,
498
00:26:01.640 --> 00:26:04.440
because we can all agree about the facts. It's the
499
00:26:04.519 --> 00:26:07.240
issue is the moral clarity. That's the thing that people
500
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:07.720
don't have.
501
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:12.000
So how do you reconcile the the the the massive
502
00:26:12.279 --> 00:26:15.960
amount of of murder or you know, I mean, I
503
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:19.480
don't know how many families and civilians in Gaza were killed,
504
00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:24.039
but you know Israel. Does Israel play any part in that? Yeah?
505
00:26:24.079 --> 00:26:26.359
I mean I think that it plays as much part
506
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:30.720
as any any country or any nation where it's I mean,
507
00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:31.960
how else do you respond?
508
00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:33.640
What's the other alternative?
509
00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:35.720
And that's the thing like when people say, oh, you know,
510
00:26:35.839 --> 00:26:38.240
I'm just anti war, Who isn't anti war?
511
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:38.720
Right?
512
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:42.200
Who's a person that says, I love to watch.
513
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:44.319
Until they until they come in and take your children
514
00:26:44.720 --> 00:26:47.000
and your wife as prisoners.
515
00:26:47.039 --> 00:26:49.720
But the the what it goes back to constantly, time
516
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:53.119
and time again is that who is putting who's putting
517
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:53.920
you in this position?
518
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:54.440
Right?
519
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:56.000
Who's putting you in this position?
520
00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:59.000
And that's where the moral clarity is is identifying the
521
00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:02.480
cause of the opposte, identifying the cause of the harm
522
00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:05.200
that's being done. And so that doesn't mean that there's
523
00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:10.160
no responsibility on the response, right, because even within you
524
00:27:10.279 --> 00:27:15.000
have a parameters within which you know a correct response
525
00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:18.119
whatever's considered a correct response. And then of course you
526
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:20.720
can do things that are outside of those parameters, but
527
00:27:21.079 --> 00:27:23.319
you still have the but four cause, right, which is
528
00:27:23.400 --> 00:27:26.400
but four October seventh, there would not be a single
529
00:27:26.440 --> 00:27:29.039
guardzen child that was killed, right, And so we have
530
00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:32.000
to you know, that moral clarity is understanding that this
531
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:39.640
terrorist regime is putting, is making gardens vulnerable to the aftermath.
532
00:27:39.799 --> 00:27:40.000
Right.
533
00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:44.119
And it's also a regime that conveniently protects itself. It
534
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:48.400
goes and hides underground and has no iron dome, no
535
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:51.559
investment in protecting its people. Why because as we said,
536
00:27:51.559 --> 00:27:55.039
they want to maximize civilian casualties. And so I think
537
00:27:55.839 --> 00:27:57.839
just looking at it from outside and just being like, well,
538
00:27:57.880 --> 00:28:00.799
these are the facts. You know, we all have the facts.
539
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:04.200
But it's about the moral clarity. It's something that I
540
00:28:04.279 --> 00:28:08.039
really struggle with, especially when you get people who are thinkers,
541
00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:12.240
even authors like Norman Finkelstein for example, who said that
542
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:15.880
you know, the who thies deserve a noble Nobel Peace Prize.
543
00:28:16.160 --> 00:28:21.359
And this is somebody who's a scholar. But what I'm
544
00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:25.200
saying is that it's that inability to discern, like even
545
00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:28.920
in the situation now that we're dealing with Russia and
546
00:28:29.000 --> 00:28:30.519
Ukraine for example, right.
547
00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:32.640
Before we go to that. Okay, I want to just
548
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:35.319
piggyback on what you're saying. Okay, the way I think
549
00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:39.039
of it as this Almosas, who was the Israeli writer
550
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:42.319
twenty years ago. I remember hear him saying Hamas is
551
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:44.599
an idea, and it's a bad idea. And the way
552
00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:46.920
you beat a bad idea is with a better idea.
553
00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:52.039
And I think my message to Israel would be that
554
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:55.279
you're never going to kill Hamas. You can't kill an
555
00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:58.920
idea like this with bombs and missiles. There is something
556
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:01.400
called total eradication of the enemy. If you want to
557
00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:03.559
do what the Allies did to the Nazis or to
558
00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:07.359
the Japanese Empire, you can. You can bomb them to
559
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:10.559
the point where look up what we did to Dresden
560
00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:12.920
and Berlin in places like that. Parts of Dresden were
561
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:16.880
hotter than the sun. We dropped these incendiary bombs, and
562
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:20.559
the idea was really to kill the German worker. It
563
00:29:20.680 --> 00:29:22.880
just is I mean, Curtis Lamy himself said I would
564
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:25.200
probably be tried as a war criminal. If you want
565
00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:28.880
to go with total destruction, then you go ahead and
566
00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:31.480
do that. But I think and I hope that in
567
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:33.759
many ways, as the world is watching, you can't get
568
00:29:33.759 --> 00:29:35.240
away with that. But there are men that will do
569
00:29:35.240 --> 00:29:37.200
that because there is a philosophy that says the only
570
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:38.559
way I'm going to get rid of this is to
571
00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:42.440
literally wipe people out. The other idea is, is there
572
00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:46.799
something that Israel can do to give the Palestinians something
573
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:51.480
to lose, a future to look forward to their children
574
00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:53.559
have a better future than I do. When you can
575
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:56.640
do that with people, if their kids have no future,
576
00:29:56.759 --> 00:29:58.279
if they're never going to go anywhere. Because I went
577
00:29:58.279 --> 00:30:01.160
to the West Bank and I saw that wall, and
578
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:04.240
I saw sort of like and I spoke to Palestinians,
579
00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:08.119
their kids, if they do get a work permit and
580
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:11.279
they get to come into Israel, they're gonna wait in
581
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:12.880
a long line and you might get to work in
582
00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:16.440
a fast food place at a truck stuff. As long
583
00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:20.680
as that is the case, I don't think that Israel
584
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:23.279
will ever have peace, and I don't think the Palestinians
585
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:26.319
will either, And I think that's that's significant. So my
586
00:30:28.039 --> 00:30:31.319
only solution, which isn't a solution, is the Israelis have
587
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:33.160
got to give the Palestinians something.
588
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:35.720
But you so, I think on the other side of that, right,
589
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:38.680
you talk about, you know, what is the reason for
590
00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:42.119
this divide and as we have even seen it in
591
00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:44.559
this past year that there have been terrorists that broke
592
00:30:44.559 --> 00:30:47.960
out of the West Bank and massacred Israelis, and so
593
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:51.119
those Palestinians that you're talking about, the women and children
594
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:53.319
who just want to live their lives, are being in
595
00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:56.160
that being put in that position because of the terrorists.
596
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:57.960
And so it always goes back to the cause that
597
00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:00.480
we cannot ignore. And I think as much as we
598
00:31:00.519 --> 00:31:02.720
talk about these things, because we can analyze this from
599
00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:06.759
a humanitarian perspective, and that humanitarian perspective says we just
600
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:09.480
want Israelis and Palestinians to coexist and live together and
601
00:31:09.480 --> 00:31:12.680
be fine, which of course that's our perspective, right, But
602
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:15.200
then on the other side, what is the practicality of it?
603
00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:18.279
What is the practical solution to the fact that you
604
00:31:18.440 --> 00:31:21.559
can't stop people from trying to kill Israelis and that's
605
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:24.039
the thing that's hindering the life of the Palestinian child
606
00:31:24.039 --> 00:31:26.000
and mother, Right, So what do you do?
607
00:31:26.279 --> 00:31:27.000
What's the solution?
608
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:29.519
Who is the who is the bad guy in this?
609
00:31:29.720 --> 00:31:33.559
Like is to what degree as someone who's sheare comes
610
00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:35.640
from that tradition? Do you? I know? But I like
611
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:36.880
to keep saying that because people.
612
00:31:36.640 --> 00:31:38.000
Can because I'm not religious.
613
00:31:38.119 --> 00:31:41.599
Yeah, but but to what degree do you do you
614
00:31:41.720 --> 00:31:48.240
lay the blame on the actual religion itself versus the
615
00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:50.599
versus just the geography.
616
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:55.359
I think it's so the way that it's best understood
617
00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:59.079
is that it's not necessarily the religion itself, but the
618
00:31:59.160 --> 00:32:02.920
extremism of it, right, And that has existed historically in
619
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:05.759
other religions to you know, Christianity, we've seen the history
620
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:09.000
of its extremism, but that's been tempered now at least reasonably.
621
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:14.240
So you know, what we're witnessing is the result of
622
00:32:14.400 --> 00:32:17.920
that sort of extremism. And it isn't just Islamism, right,
623
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:22.160
which is Islamic extremism. There's also other forms of extremism
624
00:32:22.160 --> 00:32:24.759
that have come in nationalism, right. So there has been
625
00:32:24.759 --> 00:32:27.119
like Arab nationalism for example, that has taken that view
626
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:28.240
of river to the sea.
627
00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:29.680
And there's no other exception.
628
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:34.000
So all of these sort of extremist world views where
629
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:36.920
it's like, we just cannot tolerate you existing at all
630
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:40.400
is what is frustrating any form of coexistence. And so
631
00:32:40.440 --> 00:32:43.079
when people look at this situation and they're like, look
632
00:32:43.119 --> 00:32:46.319
at how dire the situation is for Palestinians, and it's
633
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:49.440
like we all agree, right, we all agree, we just
634
00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:52.839
don't agree on what's causing that. So it's very easy
635
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:55.279
to say, well, clearly it's Israel that's causing that by
636
00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:57.559
creating this divide. And then you ask, but what's the
637
00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:01.119
reason for the divide, and what's the solution. What do
638
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:02.480
we do instead of this divide?
639
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:03.519
What do we do? Well?
640
00:33:03.559 --> 00:33:05.960
I mean I talk about deradicalization all the time, but
641
00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:10.039
I don't know how you can force people to become deradicalized.
642
00:33:10.079 --> 00:33:11.920
I don't know what What does is rove to give
643
00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:12.279
him something?
644
00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:14.680
I think you've got to give them something to lose.
645
00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:16.839
In other words, you've got to give people. Well that's
646
00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:20.000
what Trump did, Yeah, you've got to give them. What
647
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:20.400
do you mean?
648
00:33:20.680 --> 00:33:23.200
So I don't think that Trump intends to take over Gaza.
649
00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:26.319
I think what he did was I mean, he's a
650
00:33:26.359 --> 00:33:26.839
business man.
651
00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:28.599
You could have a beautiful future, That's what he said.
652
00:33:28.640 --> 00:33:30.799
What he I think what he was doing is trying
653
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:33.200
to get the Arab leadership in the region to step
654
00:33:33.319 --> 00:33:36.000
up and say anything but America in the levant.
655
00:33:35.799 --> 00:33:37.359
Which I think he is doing, and I think that's
656
00:33:37.359 --> 00:33:38.200
what that's what happened.
657
00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:40.039
I think that Arab leadership is now like, let's make
658
00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:41.720
a plan for Gaza, right, which is just a.
659
00:33:41.680 --> 00:33:43.759
Fifty five billion dollar plan or something like that.
660
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:46.079
But that was always what we wanted them to do,
661
00:33:46.240 --> 00:33:48.839
is to take you know, So maybe that what you're
662
00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:50.720
talking about is that.
663
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:52.960
I think I think that when I saw that, I
664
00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:54.559
thought that was a brilliant move by Trump.
665
00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:57.119
It was such a plan, wasn't planned.
666
00:33:57.240 --> 00:34:00.519
Underestimate that guy's intelligence. They do whatever you about him,
667
00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:03.640
you're narcissist, all that, But yeah, the man knows how
668
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:05.559
to say something outrageous businessman.
669
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:08.480
He's a very good business done. He gets things done.
670
00:34:08.599 --> 00:34:10.840
And so when people were, you know, saying, oh, this
671
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:13.079
is so outrageous, America is going to take over, I
672
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:15.920
was like, but it's not going to happen.
673
00:34:16.039 --> 00:34:19.559
Yeah, that's right. It might sound insensitive, but now you're right.
674
00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:21.960
The Arab leaders didn't want to be shamed, and they
675
00:34:22.000 --> 00:34:24.800
said we'll build this up and you definitely want you
676
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:28.559
want a gleaming city on the Mediterranean. That'd be nice
677
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:29.639
for Palestinians.
678
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:32.360
It was like it was like a reversal of what happened.
679
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:36.360
So what they wanted was no Israel, right, and so
680
00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:40.159
what they were getting was double Israel because America's to
681
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:42.840
them is the same as Israel. So instead of, you know,
682
00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:47.199
it flipped the strategy of Israel attacking its enemies to
683
00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:51.280
instead doubling Israel by making it Israel and America. And
684
00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:54.480
for them, they were just like, okay, anything but that.
685
00:34:54.599 --> 00:34:56.360
I don't think the Israel's ever wanted Gaza.
686
00:34:56.440 --> 00:34:56.960
No, they don't.
687
00:34:57.000 --> 00:34:59.000
They don't want to go there. They it's such a
688
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:02.679
they never liked it. But I remember two thousand and
689
00:35:02.719 --> 00:35:05.119
five they expelled. I think fifteen thousand of them are
690
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:09.400
maybe even more so at a great expense. So I
691
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:12.079
think that's that's a very interesting thing. I pray that
692
00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:14.920
there's a better future for the Palestinians in Gaza. I
693
00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:17.519
pray there's a better future for these the Palestinians in
694
00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:19.360
the West Bank. I really do. I think about it
695
00:35:19.360 --> 00:35:19.920
all the time.
696
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:22.800
Oh and I feel, I feel, I feel so sorry
697
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:26.480
for them. The fact that you know, there's always even
698
00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:30.119
just if you look at their history of being expelled
699
00:35:30.199 --> 00:35:33.039
into different places and everywhere they go because of the
700
00:35:33.159 --> 00:35:35.480
terrorists that go with them, they have to be kicked
701
00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:37.840
out of these refugee camps, and it's so unfair.
702
00:35:38.159 --> 00:35:41.000
Well, think about Iran, your own country of origin. And
703
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:44.719
that's why the potential for Iran, yes, with the with
704
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:50.039
their culture and their history and their emphasis on education
705
00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:52.960
and family. I mean, the hardliners have to be there
706
00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:55.920
or they die. But seventy percent of that country I
707
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:57.719
think is under thirty or something crazy.
708
00:35:57.800 --> 00:35:59.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's like let go.
709
00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:02.159
Percent of them are against the regime, of course, and
710
00:36:02.239 --> 00:36:05.559
so it's that it's exactly that understanding that I have
711
00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:07.559
a ving run that I can apply to Gaza that
712
00:36:07.920 --> 00:36:11.480
anything that you know, the regime causes suffering for our people.
713
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:13.639
I understand that the regime is the is the root
714
00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:15.880
cause of that, and I understand what we could be
715
00:36:16.000 --> 00:36:18.280
if that wasn't in the way. I think it's harder
716
00:36:18.280 --> 00:36:23.119
for Palestinians because those sort of factions are embedded within
717
00:36:23.159 --> 00:36:25.920
their society, so it's not like one regime that they
718
00:36:25.920 --> 00:36:28.000
can just reject, reject and go on to have a
719
00:36:28.039 --> 00:36:32.199
prosperous life, right. It's totally embedded within the society so well.
720
00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:34.360
The children are taught from a very young age too.
721
00:36:34.519 --> 00:36:34.760
Yeah.
722
00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:39.039
It's the problem with indoctrination is that you now have
723
00:36:39.079 --> 00:36:43.199
a systemic hatred and a systemic radicalization.
724
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:47.000
And it's reinforced by the evidence. Right because look at Gaza.
725
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:50.079
So if any of those kids were for a second
726
00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:52.480
to believe, you know, oh maybe I'm being indoctrinated, they
727
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:54.519
look at Gaza and they're like, oh no, this is
728
00:36:54.559 --> 00:36:55.760
clearly the.
729
00:36:55.360 --> 00:36:57.400
Heroes are the people fighting Israel.
730
00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:00.800
And exactly exactly, but it's not being shown to them
731
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:03.760
necessarily that those heroes are the ones that are causing that.
732
00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:07.440
I saw a young boy shaking hands with all these
733
00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:10.079
Hamas fighters. Yeah, and they were all kind of in
734
00:37:10.159 --> 00:37:11.840
their masks with their guns. And as a little boy,
735
00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:13.840
I can tell you, for me to look up at
736
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:17.920
those guys who are fighting the you know, Goliath, you know,
737
00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:22.840
would be very very uh you know, I would never
738
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:25.440
forget that those are my heroes, you know, And that's
739
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:28.440
what happens. That's kinda talk to me about Ukraine because
740
00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:30.880
you were also this is another thing we're seeing with
741
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:34.159
people saying, well, you know, we're in a situation now
742
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:39.719
where basically, you know, Putin was put in a corner
743
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:45.440
with Ukraine's flirtation with NATO membership. The United States knew
744
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:48.920
what they were doing, and so now what you have is, well,
745
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:54.039
it's a complicated situation because Russia rolled in all those tanks,
746
00:37:55.239 --> 00:37:58.679
killed a lot of civilians. Yeah, you know, blah blah blah,
747
00:37:58.679 --> 00:37:59.639
So talk to me about that.
748
00:37:59.719 --> 00:38:02.000
So this is kind of the point that I wanted
749
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:04.360
to get into when we were talking about you know,
750
00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:07.920
academics and scholars of the conflict, at any of these
751
00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:12.119
conflicts where there's no issue with the facts, right, So
752
00:38:12.239 --> 00:38:14.880
people always think that, you know, if they just express
753
00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:16.840
the facts, they'll be like, but didn't you know that
754
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:19.280
NATO expanded this much and this happened, and this happened,
755
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:21.719
this happened. I'm like, it's not the facts. We agree
756
00:38:21.719 --> 00:38:25.440
on the facts, it's the moral clarity, right. So you
757
00:38:25.480 --> 00:38:28.760
know what I'll hear people say is they'll give examples
758
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:31.800
and they'll be like, well, you know, NATO or democracies
759
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:35.280
going near Russia like this is just imagine if Communism
760
00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:40.000
came near democracies. And I'm like, that's not the same thing. Okay,
761
00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:42.559
the facts might be the same, but that's not the
762
00:38:43.079 --> 00:38:46.079
same equivalent, right. You know why because that is a
763
00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:50.960
system that results in the massacre and of millions of famine,
764
00:38:51.000 --> 00:38:55.800
of devastation and destruction, of killing dissidents. Right, So that
765
00:38:55.960 --> 00:38:58.000
coming near us, that's a huge problem.
766
00:38:58.280 --> 00:39:02.679
Communism is sacrificing the individual to the collective and the
767
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:06.119
state is your god. Let's be very exactly.
768
00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:09.920
So when they say, well, if communism came to Mexico,
769
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:12.360
we'd have a problem with it, that's not the same
770
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:15.840
as if democracies go near communism. And then the second thing,
771
00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:19.599
and people really don't realize how they're justifying this. You know,
772
00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:23.360
even if let's say a communist regime set up its
773
00:39:23.360 --> 00:39:26.440
troops in Mexico, right, what we would hope that the
774
00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:30.239
US would do is go after those troops. But if
775
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:36.000
the US started targeting Mexican children, intentionally targeting Mexican civilians,
776
00:39:36.119 --> 00:39:39.239
you're telling me that that's about communism, right, or is
777
00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:41.679
that about the fact that the US has an interest
778
00:39:42.079 --> 00:39:46.719
in controlling and usurping Mexico. Right, that's a pretext. So
779
00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:49.559
the war against communism in that context would be a
780
00:39:49.599 --> 00:39:52.719
pretext for taking over Mexico. It's exactly the same thing
781
00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:58.719
when Putin is attacking Ukraine. Civilians, individuals and people are like, oh,
782
00:39:58.760 --> 00:40:02.360
Putin's problem is native Why isn't Putin going off to NATO.
783
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:03.840
Where are the attacks on NATO?
784
00:40:04.000 --> 00:40:06.920
So it's clearly it's not about NATO, right, Oh, Putin
785
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:10.079
is put into a corner because democracies are coming near
786
00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:11.800
an authoritarian regime.
787
00:40:12.199 --> 00:40:13.199
That's not a bad thing.
788
00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:17.159
It's not a bad thing. And people forget that Yushenko,
789
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:21.719
who was who was democratically elected in Ukraine, was a
790
00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:26.239
pro Western leader, because would you rather be closer to
791
00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:29.000
Europe and the United States or Russia a one crop
792
00:40:29.079 --> 00:40:31.639
economy with nuclear weapons, and what does Russia have to
793
00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:36.480
offer that Europe, I mean Western Europe and the United States.
794
00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:38.880
You'd rather be in that mix.
795
00:40:39.239 --> 00:40:40.599
Evidence speaks for itself.
796
00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:43.280
Of course it does. And they they tried to kill,
797
00:40:43.360 --> 00:40:46.119
They tried to kill Ushendigo, they poisoned with dioxen. You
798
00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:49.039
can see them before and after pictures. Talk to the Georgians,
799
00:40:49.239 --> 00:40:52.320
talk to the Chenese, talk to the Augustani's, talk to
800
00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:56.239
all of the people who are under Russian domination. It
801
00:40:56.320 --> 00:40:58.719
is an expansionist empire. That's what I always say, like,
802
00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:03.000
are you forgetting Go talk to the Georgians about election medaling,
803
00:41:03.320 --> 00:41:06.760
Go talk to you know, the Chucheni's go see what
804
00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:09.960
they what before and after Grosny when they came in
805
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:12.199
and literally you want to talk about carpet bombing and
806
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:15.079
turning it into the surface of the fucking moon. That's
807
00:41:15.119 --> 00:41:19.679
what Putin's regime did. So let's not let's not kid
808
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:22.440
ourselves here. It's it's unbelievable that people fall for.
809
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:25.440
This, But it goes back to that sort of moral
810
00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:28.840
decay and that moral decay that we're dealing with, which actually,
811
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:34.519
you know, the Soviet defectors described as demoralization, right, was
812
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:37.400
a process that you know, it was. It was such
813
00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:41.199
a significant effort that was put in by the Soviet Union,
814
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:44.559
and this concept of demoralization, you know, I think this
815
00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:47.599
is what I think is the best way to explain
816
00:41:47.679 --> 00:41:49.159
things is to use an analogy.
817
00:41:49.320 --> 00:41:49.480
Right.
818
00:41:49.920 --> 00:41:52.679
So this is an analogy that I think people will understand.
819
00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:57.760
Let's say you have a a robber, okay, and he
820
00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:01.599
pulls up to a citizen, just an ordinary civilian, puts
821
00:42:01.599 --> 00:42:04.079
a gun to that civilian's head and takes their child
822
00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:07.880
or something whatever. Right, and then you have a cop
823
00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:11.280
who's at the scene, and the cop sees what's going on,
824
00:42:11.719 --> 00:42:15.760
puts the gun to the robber's head. Right, are the
825
00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:19.960
facts identical? Sure, the facts are identical. But wait, he's
826
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:22.840
holding a gun to the robber's head and the robbers
827
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:24.960
holding a gun to the civilian's head. So aren't these
828
00:42:25.000 --> 00:42:28.239
two guys just as bad as each other? Oh my god,
829
00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:30.519
no they're not. Okay, first of all, no they're not.
830
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:33.880
But this is what happens, right, This is what demoralization is.
831
00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:40.360
You inundate a people with so much bad information about
832
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:44.039
that cop. Right, turns out he's a wife beater. Turns
833
00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:46.159
out he maybe even killed his wife. Turns out he
834
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:48.360
might be the worst guy in the world. But guess what,
835
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:53.280
in this scenario, in this freeze frame, we still support
836
00:42:53.320 --> 00:42:56.039
the cop. And if you don't understand why, if you
837
00:42:56.079 --> 00:42:58.239
don't understand the difference, we are in trouble.
838
00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:02.719
And that's where I appreciate how you speak, because you're
839
00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:06.840
very articulate in highlighting the meaningful difference between things, and
840
00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:10.079
that is so important. You see people who are not
841
00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:15.000
as informed drawing sort of these comparisons. What you have
842
00:43:15.079 --> 00:43:17.519
to do is learn how to draw the difference that
843
00:43:17.519 --> 00:43:19.719
that is where the truth is, the moral difference.
844
00:43:19.800 --> 00:43:21.159
It's called moral discernment.
845
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:24.039
It is called moral discernment. Here's where I will play
846
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:28.760
devil's advocate and defend some people who are for example,
847
00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:33.760
anti war and don't trust the Ukraine situation. And this
848
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:38.079
is the United States has engaged in one conflict or another,
849
00:43:38.840 --> 00:43:44.199
especially in the destabilization and overthrowing of Iraq and the
850
00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:48.840
depathification therein and the fact that that was handled so poorly.
851
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:51.360
And a lot of people can point to the neo
852
00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:54.960
kons who are primarily right wing Kosher Jews. I'm just
853
00:43:55.039 --> 00:43:59.360
making this comparison which they say this was about protecting Israel,
854
00:43:59.480 --> 00:44:03.199
Paul wool with Douglas Feith, all that, the New American
855
00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:07.199
enterprises too, which is mostly you know, Jewish. So you
856
00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:09.360
get this these you get these people who start to
857
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:11.239
get worked up around this and they say, look, this
858
00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:14.280
wasn't just about the United States, this is about fighting
859
00:44:14.519 --> 00:44:16.400
Israel's wards, right, So you get all that.
860
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:18.559
Well, again, I don't go down.
861
00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:20.599
That rabbit hole because that it is what it is.
862
00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:26.599
But what I think people see with Ukraine and Russia.
863
00:44:26.679 --> 00:44:29.880
Is here we go again, the United States trying to
864
00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:32.119
make the world a safer place, and we're going to
865
00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:35.039
get ourselves back in this quagmar. We never get ourselves
866
00:44:35.079 --> 00:44:38.559
a break. It costs a fortune, it's handled terribly. There's
867
00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:42.159
no accountability. On and on twenty years of war in
868
00:44:42.199 --> 00:44:45.639
Iraq and Afghanistan and what happened back to square one,
869
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:49.119
So you can understand how people lose their faith in institutions,
870
00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:52.800
starting with the Catholic Church of course, and then you know,
871
00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:55.000
you can say the FBI and all this stuff, the
872
00:44:55.039 --> 00:44:56.880
way they behave in the election, blah blah blah. But
873
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:00.679
there's you can I sympathize with people who don't trust
874
00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:04.159
mainstream media after COVID, who don't trust the Pharmaci, who
875
00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:06.880
come in to afri COVID, who don't trust our foreign
876
00:45:06.920 --> 00:45:10.320
policy and our leaders because they don't feel represented and
877
00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:13.440
they see what a mess they made of the Middle East.
878
00:45:13.559 --> 00:45:16.480
You could make an argument that because of our activities
879
00:45:16.519 --> 00:45:20.159
in Iraq and Afghanistan, that is what gave rise to
880
00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:23.360
the destabilization in Syria, which by the way, was also
881
00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:26.519
meddled with by the CIA, and the detailization of the
882
00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:32.199
Assad regime, but also isis also you know, the insurrection
883
00:45:32.360 --> 00:45:33.199
and all that stuff.
884
00:45:33.239 --> 00:45:36.239
So yeah, well I'm going to how was you? Yeah,
885
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:38.039
first of all, I'm going to cool bullshit on all
886
00:45:38.079 --> 00:45:41.920
of that. Really, yes, absolutely, not everything you said before,
887
00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:44.119
just the last part that you said. I know. The
888
00:45:44.159 --> 00:45:45.880
reason that I'm going to cool bullshit on that is
889
00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:50.599
because in the seventh century, Jihadis conquered twenty five percent
890
00:45:50.639 --> 00:45:52.559
of the world, and they didn't do it with any provocation,
891
00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:55.360
and they didn't do it with any Western imperialism. They
892
00:45:55.400 --> 00:45:57.519
said the exact same thing that they say today. When
893
00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:00.559
they conquered the Sasanian Empire any Ron in the seventh century,
894
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:04.079
they sent a message and they said, submit to us,
895
00:46:04.159 --> 00:46:06.119
or we will send you a people that love death
896
00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:09.079
more than they love life. And they acted that way.
897
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:12.840
They Islam was spread by the sword. It was not provoked.
898
00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:16.320
And so what happened after the collapse of the Last Caliphate,
899
00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:18.599
which was in the early twentieth century, was that there
900
00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:22.719
was a revivalist movement. I think one of the main architects,
901
00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:27.960
or the ideological architects of that movement was Rashid Reader,
902
00:46:28.639 --> 00:46:32.199
and he inspired a lot of thinkers like the thinker
903
00:46:32.440 --> 00:46:38.199
of the leader of Jamyad Islami the I think even
904
00:46:38.199 --> 00:46:41.039
Osama bin lad and a lot of these, you know,
905
00:46:41.199 --> 00:46:44.920
leaders of Jihadis group were inspired by this thinking of reviving,
906
00:46:45.639 --> 00:46:47.840
reviving the caliphate after it collapsed.
907
00:46:47.840 --> 00:46:51.199
So so these things.
908
00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:55.480
The idea, the idea, which is a very naive idea,
909
00:46:55.679 --> 00:46:57.719
is that if the West didn't go into the Middle East,
910
00:46:57.760 --> 00:46:59.079
the Middle East would be thriving.
911
00:46:59.199 --> 00:47:00.880
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
912
00:47:01.039 --> 00:47:03.519
The Middle East has not been thriving for the past
913
00:47:03.559 --> 00:47:05.480
fourteen hundred years, and that has nothing to do with
914
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:05.880
the West.
915
00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:09.039
Sure or right that tribalism.
916
00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:11.920
It's tribalism. You're right that that could have further destabilized.
917
00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:14.400
But then you have to think, what was the alternative? Okay,
918
00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:16.800
So you're saying that if we had just left Saddam
919
00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:20.920
Hussein to his own devices, who was murdering millions of Iranians,
920
00:47:21.320 --> 00:47:27.760
chemical genocide against the Kurds, okaytitude wars with Iran and endless, endless,
921
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:31.119
you're saying that the alternative would have been pe che Keene.
922
00:47:31.239 --> 00:47:32.239
Of course not so.
923
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:34.360
Yeah, I can agree with you that the US is
924
00:47:34.440 --> 00:47:38.079
America's meddling definitely may have upset something but not something
925
00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:40.679
that wouldn't have been upset otherwise. So let's just speak again.
926
00:47:40.719 --> 00:47:43.280
You have to go back to the Soviet Union, the battle,
927
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:47.360
the ideological battle between communism and democracy, the Western sphere
928
00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:49.719
of influence, the Eastern sphere of influence, and all the
929
00:47:49.760 --> 00:47:52.360
people caught in the middle of that. The proxy wars.
930
00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:56.119
Iran is a perfect example of that because the the
931
00:47:56.239 --> 00:47:58.639
last shar was Mohammed Rezashan, and the Shah before him
932
00:47:58.679 --> 00:48:02.280
was Shah. He was opposed because he would not allow
933
00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:07.320
a Persian corridor for the fight for the Allies to fight, Okay,
934
00:48:08.199 --> 00:48:11.840
and so that really caused a lot of problems for
935
00:48:11.880 --> 00:48:15.480
Iran down the road, Okay, major problems which may maybe
936
00:48:15.480 --> 00:48:18.239
even led to its device ultimately. But we also understand
937
00:48:18.320 --> 00:48:20.559
that that was, you know, in response to what was
938
00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:23.400
going on during World War two. So but anyway, that
939
00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:25.639
all aside, what I wanted to say, which is more
940
00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:30.079
important than that, was that when you talked about the
941
00:48:30.199 --> 00:48:33.639
United States failures out in the world, I think this
942
00:48:33.800 --> 00:48:36.360
goes back to what we're talking about with the moral discernment,
943
00:48:36.440 --> 00:48:39.880
because you can morally discern between right and wrong, but
944
00:48:40.000 --> 00:48:42.800
still understand that this is a bad strategy right, So
945
00:48:42.960 --> 00:48:46.599
you can say very easily, listen, I understand the difference
946
00:48:46.599 --> 00:48:50.559
between a democracy and an autocracy. Okay, so the West
947
00:48:50.679 --> 00:48:53.679
versus Putin, But I just don't agree with the strategy
948
00:48:53.719 --> 00:48:57.280
that's being used here. So it's okay to have that opinion.
949
00:48:57.320 --> 00:48:59.800
It's okay to think that the United States has failed everywhere.
950
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:02.360
But you have to understand the difference between the good
951
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:04.599
guys and the bad guys. And that's the thing that
952
00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:08.639
people don't understand anymore because they've been so demoralized that
953
00:49:08.679 --> 00:49:10.320
they think the bad guys are the good guys.
954
00:49:10.360 --> 00:49:14.320
Now. I think there's a tendency for an intellectual and
955
00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:17.719
somebody who's not as informed to kind of say, well,
956
00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:21.679
you know, who's to say, or this is a complicated
957
00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:22.239
gray area.
958
00:49:22.679 --> 00:49:26.480
That's the goal of demoralization. The goal of demoralization is
959
00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:30.559
not that you side with terrorists. If you side with terrorists,
960
00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:33.519
you're mentally ill people to give up. It's to get
961
00:49:33.519 --> 00:49:35.440
you to say, well, these are rule I think the
962
00:49:35.559 --> 00:49:37.920
US are terrorist and she had as a terrorist, so
963
00:49:38.079 --> 00:49:40.119
I'm just gonna not support either. And when you don't
964
00:49:40.119 --> 00:49:42.880
support either, you support the g Had. This that's the
965
00:49:42.920 --> 00:49:44.079
goal of demoralization.
966
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:48.800
That's a really really good point, and that is so true,
967
00:49:49.039 --> 00:49:52.719
and it's really hard sometimes to come down on. It's
968
00:49:52.840 --> 00:49:56.760
very difficult for me with the Israeli Palestinian situation. My
969
00:49:56.760 --> 00:49:58.880
buddy said, you have a platform, you should start speaking
970
00:49:59.159 --> 00:50:02.480
for the Palestinian I said, listen, dude, this conflict has
971
00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:04.719
been going on since Moses had a parting of the
972
00:50:04.719 --> 00:50:10.880
ways with the Pharaoh and whatever. Brian Kallen, the comedian Jackass,
973
00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:14.519
first before anything else, is going to say, well, I
974
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:17.000
like having people like you on because especially because I
975
00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:21.159
thought you were actually Persian, Jewish and Israeli and you're not.
976
00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:25.159
And that's very unique. And you've got a lot of
977
00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:27.360
guts to be speak in the way you do. But
978
00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:31.360
it's clear that you have. First of all, you've seen
979
00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:33.719
your own country and you've seen sort of how many
980
00:50:33.880 --> 00:50:37.159
people's futures have been robbed under that regime. You're not
981
00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:41.079
romanticized by anything. You you know, you had your own
982
00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:45.280
family murdered. Yeah, and that is that puts you in
983
00:50:45.360 --> 00:50:48.320
a position where you say the difference between a good
984
00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:52.639
idea and a bad idea, the price of being morally
985
00:50:52.639 --> 00:50:57.360
ambivalent is that people die, including the people closest to you.
986
00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:01.679
That's where that's where I really saw you. I didn't
987
00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:02.960
know any of this, but I just saw you so
988
00:51:03.119 --> 00:51:08.840
clear eyed, so thoughtful, and so unambiguous. And it's very
989
00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:10.320
very refreshing.
990
00:51:10.519 --> 00:51:11.679
Thank you, it really is.
991
00:51:11.960 --> 00:51:14.199
But I think this is this is really the essence
992
00:51:14.239 --> 00:51:16.800
of it is that, you know, I really started to
993
00:51:16.840 --> 00:51:20.079
see that we're not in an age of lacking information.
994
00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:22.599
We might be in an age of having too much information.
995
00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:25.400
We just people don't know how to process that information,
996
00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:28.559
and so they take that information and become demoralized. And
997
00:51:28.840 --> 00:51:31.159
this is exactly what I saw was lacking, was an
998
00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:34.840
ability for to discern that moral clarity, that moral discernment,
999
00:51:35.000 --> 00:51:38.280
and that's exactly what led to the to the fall
1000
00:51:38.280 --> 00:51:41.199
of my country. Right Again, it wasn't that the facts
1001
00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:44.719
were necessarily wrong. When you know, Iranians at that time
1002
00:51:44.760 --> 00:51:48.000
were told about Western imperialism. Maybe that wasn't wrong, maybe
1003
00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:50.559
that was true, but they didn't see at that time
1004
00:51:50.599 --> 00:51:53.760
that that was being wielded, right, that was being wielded
1005
00:51:54.199 --> 00:51:57.840
to gain some type of advantage and ultimately foment the
1006
00:51:57.840 --> 00:52:01.440
revolution that brought in the Islamic regime. But it's that
1007
00:52:02.159 --> 00:52:06.079
when society becomes demoralized in that way where they take
1008
00:52:06.159 --> 00:52:08.519
on all of this information and they can't do that
1009
00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:12.639
calculus right where they say, Okay, I understand all of
1010
00:52:12.679 --> 00:52:16.400
this bad information about this cop. Okay, but I but
1011
00:52:16.519 --> 00:52:20.000
I still understand that we have to support him against
1012
00:52:20.039 --> 00:52:20.480
the robber.
1013
00:52:20.639 --> 00:52:20.840
Right.
1014
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:24.199
When a society loses its ability to do that, then
1015
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:25.559
we start supporting the robber.
1016
00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:26.000
Right.
1017
00:52:26.039 --> 00:52:29.199
And once we start supporting the robber, we start supporting
1018
00:52:29.440 --> 00:52:33.280
the collapse of order in society. And that is exactly
1019
00:52:33.360 --> 00:52:35.559
what this information was designed to do.
1020
00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:38.480
I think that's what BLM was doing. Yeah, you know,
1021
00:52:38.519 --> 00:52:41.639
to a large extent, you saw that what is your plan?
1022
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:47.280
You are You're such an articulate, intelligent human being? What
1023
00:52:47.639 --> 00:52:50.800
are you? And young? You know? What? What do you
1024
00:52:50.840 --> 00:52:54.280
want to do? Is I'm going to yes.
1025
00:52:54.559 --> 00:52:57.159
So it's so funny because people say that I'm the
1026
00:52:57.199 --> 00:52:59.320
opposition to gain decen yes, which.
1027
00:52:59.159 --> 00:53:03.559
Which is great. Kansas has Canvas is somebody who's got
1028
00:53:03.559 --> 00:53:06.360
this sort of very anti Israeli sort of like bent
1029
00:53:06.480 --> 00:53:09.239
now and she was talking about Antheo Vaughn and I've
1030
00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:11.280
got friends who are like, you know, who are JEWISHO
1031
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:15.920
are like, dude, we're getting crushed here. But again, there
1032
00:53:16.000 --> 00:53:21.559
is there to your point, you can break down Israel's
1033
00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:25.800
lobbying efforts and how they behave. But then that is
1034
00:53:26.280 --> 00:53:30.239
that is within the larger context of what choice does
1035
00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:33.199
one have when surrounded by a.
1036
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:36.199
World of hate.
1037
00:53:36.800 --> 00:53:39.280
I don't think anybody else would behave otherwise. They're just
1038
00:53:39.559 --> 00:53:42.800
they've been very good at figuring out a way to survive.
1039
00:53:43.519 --> 00:53:46.159
And that is what it needs to be understood. Right,
1040
00:53:46.280 --> 00:53:49.320
All of this is a method of survival. And maybe
1041
00:53:49.360 --> 00:53:53.480
the survival you know, isn't perfectly executed, but it's survival,
1042
00:53:53.599 --> 00:53:53.800
is it?
1043
00:53:53.880 --> 00:53:54.400
Is it ever?
1044
00:53:54.880 --> 00:53:57.079
Right? Right? So you're writing a book.
1045
00:53:57.079 --> 00:53:57.960
I'm writing a book.
1046
00:53:58.199 --> 00:53:58.760
It's a book.
1047
00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:02.519
It's about everything that I talk about. I talk about
1048
00:54:02.559 --> 00:54:06.760
the route or the trajectory of these historic sort of
1049
00:54:06.840 --> 00:54:10.639
leftist social justice movements which I was sucked into. Right.
1050
00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:13.840
I was the biggest leftist my whole life, and then
1051
00:54:14.079 --> 00:54:16.880
slowly things started to unpack for me. And I think
1052
00:54:16.880 --> 00:54:21.639
this is why I talk so much about Uh, what
1053
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:26.280
do I talk so much about? Deprogramming? Yeah, deprogramming because
1054
00:54:26.920 --> 00:54:28.920
what I often explain to people is that you can
1055
00:54:29.039 --> 00:54:31.840
people aren't going to see the light by hearing more
1056
00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:34.639
facts and more information they've heard all the facts, they've heard,
1057
00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:38.440
all the information. So it's the deprogramming. So, you know,
1058
00:54:38.559 --> 00:54:42.039
just like the example that I gave about understanding the
1059
00:54:42.079 --> 00:54:46.039
difference between good and bad, right or wrong, even when
1060
00:54:46.239 --> 00:54:49.239
there's so much bad about the good guys, you know,
1061
00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:51.719
I think about I'll go back to what I was saying,
1062
00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:54.079
but I think about the times when you know, we
1063
00:54:54.199 --> 00:54:56.400
used to have these movies, right, We used to have
1064
00:54:56.440 --> 00:54:59.679
these movies where there would be the bad guys that
1065
00:54:59.719 --> 00:55:02.719
wanted to kill everybody, right, and for the good guys
1066
00:55:02.760 --> 00:55:06.239
to capture the bad guys, they would lie, they would mislead,
1067
00:55:06.440 --> 00:55:09.400
they would law them and trap them and then kill them.
1068
00:55:09.400 --> 00:55:12.000
And people would be like, that's wonderful that that happened.
1069
00:55:12.280 --> 00:55:15.599
But now, in a demoralized society, we're like, but the
1070
00:55:15.639 --> 00:55:16.400
good guys lie.
1071
00:55:16.440 --> 00:55:17.400
Do you hear this all the time?
1072
00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:20.960
They're just as bad as the bad It's so stupid.
1073
00:55:21.199 --> 00:55:24.039
It's so stupid because the objective is completely different.
1074
00:55:24.280 --> 00:55:26.840
You need to debate candas.
1075
00:55:27.320 --> 00:55:28.920
Pointless, pointless exercise.
1076
00:55:29.000 --> 00:55:30.760
It would be fun, though, and I think that you
1077
00:55:30.960 --> 00:55:33.320
look listen, I hate to tell you this, your your
1078
00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:36.519
your You should have your own show working on that too,
1079
00:55:36.679 --> 00:55:40.000
good because you know I can't wait for that. You
1080
00:55:40.039 --> 00:55:41.880
are going to debate Candice eventually. It's going to be
1081
00:55:41.920 --> 00:55:45.400
great for your numbers. And you're going to have your acolytes.
1082
00:55:45.440 --> 00:55:48.159
She has her acolytes. And you're going to make a fortune.
1083
00:55:48.199 --> 00:55:50.159
Just so you know, you're going to make a fortune.
1084
00:55:50.320 --> 00:55:54.119
And I'm serious, and you're you're what happens to every
1085
00:55:54.119 --> 00:55:55.599
one of us trying to make a difference in the
1086
00:55:55.599 --> 00:55:57.440
world is you're going to get sucked right into the
1087
00:55:57.519 --> 00:56:00.519
whole biosphere and you're going to have a big house
1088
00:56:00.719 --> 00:56:03.000
and you're gonna make all this money and you're gonna
1089
00:56:03.039 --> 00:56:05.119
write another book and people are gonna love you, and
1090
00:56:05.159 --> 00:56:06.639
you're gonna go out there and people gonna be like,
1091
00:56:06.679 --> 00:56:08.360
I don't like you, and he'd be like whatever, and
1092
00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:10.960
then I love you. And that's what's gonna happen. You're
1093
00:56:11.000 --> 00:56:12.639
gonna you, whether you like it or not, are going
1094
00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:15.800
to purify your own echo echo chamber. You're gonna have
1095
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:20.119
your own army. And look, it's your charisma, it's your intelligence,
1096
00:56:20.199 --> 00:56:23.559
it's your look, it's it's your courage, it's your moral clarity.
1097
00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:28.239
And uh and tell me yeah, I mean, I mean
1098
00:56:28.639 --> 00:56:31.000
you are You're a star in the making. I can
1099
00:56:31.039 --> 00:56:33.320
see it, and I'm calling it here first for sure.
1100
00:56:33.599 --> 00:56:35.400
That's why I was so excited that you wanted to
1101
00:56:35.440 --> 00:56:38.559
do this podcast, because you uh, you know I I'm
1102
00:56:38.800 --> 00:56:40.760
I am a guy who would never be like you
1103
00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:42.960
because I am hopelessly in the middle, and I want
1104
00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:43.679
people to like me.
1105
00:56:43.800 --> 00:56:44.719
No, I think that's good.
1106
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:46.920
Wow, that's Good's a comic, you know. If I, if
1107
00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:48.519
I My joke is if I was. If I, if
1108
00:56:48.519 --> 00:56:50.519
you want me to join your protest and you want
1109
00:56:50.559 --> 00:56:52.800
me to make a sign, my son is going to
1110
00:56:52.840 --> 00:56:58.679
say something like uugh, or or it's complicated. But but
1111
00:56:58.719 --> 00:56:59.000
I was.
1112
00:56:59.599 --> 00:56:59.719
No.
1113
00:56:59.760 --> 00:57:02.280
But I I also really appreciate the fact that there
1114
00:57:02.360 --> 00:57:04.480
is a time in life where you can't make a
1115
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:07.280
left turn, you can't make a right term. We've got
1116
00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:09.559
to decide on what's right or wrong. And I actually,
1117
00:57:09.599 --> 00:57:11.599
at the end of the day, do believe in good
1118
00:57:11.639 --> 00:57:14.000
and evil. I do believe in right and wrong, and
1119
00:57:14.000 --> 00:57:18.199
I think to do otherwise is irresponsible and frankly, you
1120
00:57:18.320 --> 00:57:21.199
become part of the problem. And when I say part
1121
00:57:21.199 --> 00:57:23.880
of the problem, you're part of what gets people killed.
1122
00:57:24.400 --> 00:57:25.360
It's a bad.
1123
00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:27.119
Idea and gets yourself killed in the end.
1124
00:57:27.320 --> 00:57:28.840
That's exactly right, that's exactly.
1125
00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:29.320
Imagine.
1126
00:57:29.360 --> 00:57:33.320
Can you imagine if we were anti war during the
1127
00:57:33.360 --> 00:57:35.679
Cold War? Can you can you imagine if we were like,
1128
00:57:35.719 --> 00:57:38.000
look at what they're doing to the communists.
1129
00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:38.920
Good luck with that exactly, and.
1130
00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:39.719
It will be dead.
1131
00:57:39.920 --> 00:57:44.119
That's where I am. I'm not morally ambiguous on by
1132
00:57:44.159 --> 00:57:47.199
the people, for the people of the people, a refined democracy,
1133
00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:51.239
by cameral legislature, all these things, these checks and balances.
1134
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:54.360
You know, a country that is a country of a
1135
00:57:54.440 --> 00:57:57.320
rule of law, individual liberty.
1136
00:57:57.000 --> 00:57:59.480
That's what we see, that's what we start, and that's
1137
00:57:59.480 --> 00:57:59.760
what we.
1138
00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:05.239
Because that's truer, it's truer, it works, it works for
1139
00:58:05.360 --> 00:58:07.920
human beings, and that's why we fight for the survival
1140
00:58:07.960 --> 00:58:08.320
of that.
1141
00:58:08.639 --> 00:58:12.239
Not you know, an understanding that the terrorist regimes, the
1142
00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:15.440
communist regimes, that autocratic regimes that are putting us in
1143
00:58:15.480 --> 00:58:17.800
a position that we have to fight them, that's the problem.
1144
00:58:17.880 --> 00:58:20.280
Well, it's also it also allows people to flourish and
1145
00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:21.599
realize their full potential.
1146
00:58:21.719 --> 00:58:22.960
That's exactly what we want.
1147
00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:26.920
With your brain was put in in Iran, you would
1148
00:58:26.920 --> 00:58:29.719
have to be dead. You'd be dead, or you'd be
1149
00:58:29.840 --> 00:58:32.159
in prison, or I'd have to beat you at least
1150
00:58:32.280 --> 00:58:34.559
once a week and you'd be in my house, you know,
1151
00:58:34.599 --> 00:58:38.239
because because and what is that? That's a lie, That's
1152
00:58:38.320 --> 00:58:40.280
that's a man saying I don't want you to be smarter.
1153
00:58:40.360 --> 00:58:41.920
I don't want you to be I don't want you
1154
00:58:41.960 --> 00:58:45.360
to speak this because it threatens my order. And it's
1155
00:58:45.400 --> 00:58:47.679
a lie. And I don't think lies, stand. I don't.
1156
00:58:48.280 --> 00:58:51.679
That is and this is exactly the problem with this
1157
00:58:51.840 --> 00:58:56.079
postmodernist worldview of like, you know, cultural relativism, where all
1158
00:58:56.159 --> 00:58:58.599
cultures and all systems and all things are all the same.
1159
00:58:58.679 --> 00:58:59.159
No, they're not.
1160
00:58:59.480 --> 00:59:02.960
There are systems that work for human beings. Democracies work
1161
00:59:02.960 --> 00:59:05.599
for human beings. That's where human beings thrive. And if
1162
00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:08.119
you don't understand that, you probably haven't been to the
1163
00:59:08.119 --> 00:59:08.599
other place.
1164
00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:10.480
That's exactly that's see, that's how I feel. I grew
1165
00:59:10.559 --> 00:59:13.159
up in these socialists utopias. I grew up there. I
1166
00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:17.320
saw real poverty. I was in Yemen. I saw what
1167
00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:20.920
full blown leprosy looks like with my own eyes. I
1168
00:59:21.039 --> 00:59:24.639
was in Damascus. I saw there. I saw the markets
1169
00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:28.159
where I saw real leprosy in Damascus. I saw it
1170
00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:31.000
in Yemen. I grew up, you know, in Pakistan. My
1171
00:59:31.039 --> 00:59:34.039
mother kept somebody alive, a woman on the street, a lot.
1172
00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:37.400
I saw that. I've been to Africa, I've seen that
1173
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:38.480
real poverty.
1174
00:59:38.599 --> 00:59:40.719
Yeah, you know, so you know what this is. And
1175
00:59:40.760 --> 00:59:42.880
this is a perfect thing to wrap it up with.
1176
00:59:43.320 --> 00:59:47.960
You know why I am against jihadis and communists and
1177
00:59:47.960 --> 00:59:50.039
all of these things. The reason that I'm against it
1178
00:59:50.119 --> 00:59:53.280
is because I'm from the Middle East. And guess what
1179
00:59:53.440 --> 00:59:55.559
this is. What it means to care about Middle Eastern people.
1180
00:59:56.079 --> 00:59:58.480
It means that all of those luxuries and privileges and
1181
00:59:58.519 --> 01:00:01.519
individual rights that you and enjoy, I want my people
1182
01:00:01.559 --> 01:00:04.440
to have those things too. But there's something that's getting
1183
01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:06.320
in the way of that. And that's the thing that
1184
01:00:06.360 --> 01:00:09.320
we need to fight so that the people of the
1185
01:00:09.320 --> 01:00:12.360
Middle East can enjoy all of the things that you enjoy.
1186
01:00:12.400 --> 01:00:14.599
Why should they just be reserved for you? Why should
1187
01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:16.880
there be this worldview that, oh, but you're all just
1188
01:00:16.920 --> 01:00:19.960
oppressed people, so you should remain oppressed, to remain true
1189
01:00:19.960 --> 01:00:23.159
to your culture. That's not my culture. That's not nobody's
1190
01:00:23.199 --> 01:00:28.320
culture's death, nobody's culture is starvation, nobody's culture is murder. Okay,
1191
01:00:28.360 --> 01:00:31.000
this idea that this is a culture, this is a
1192
01:00:31.119 --> 01:00:34.280
system that works for human beings, and if we deserve it,
1193
01:00:34.320 --> 01:00:44.679
they deserve it too.