#473: Why Most "Regenerative" Therapies Fail | Revolutionary Immune Hacks and Stem Cell Breakthroughs With Dr. Rafael Gonzalez

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Welcome to Longevity.
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I'm your host, Natalie Nidham.
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I'm a nutritionist, a human potential, and epigenetic coach, and I created this podcast to bring you the latest ways to take control of your health and longevity.
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We cover it all, from new technology and ancestral health practices, to personalized interventions, and a very special interest of mine, peptides and bioregulators.
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Enjoy the show.
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Welcome back.
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I'm Natalie Nidham, your host.
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Let me ask you a question.
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What if one of the biggest problems with aging isn't what we accumulate, old dysfunctional cells?
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It's that our immune system gets worse at taking out the cellular trash.
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My guest today is Dr. Rafael Gonzalez, PhD, a long-time regenerative medicine researcher whose work began with spinal cord injury and eventually led him deep into immune modulation, stem cells, and longevity.
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We talk natural killer cells, senescence, why your own aging stem cells may not be your best option, and what people misunderstand about exosomes.
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Lastly, Dr. Rafael threw in an offer for the audience.
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He says that if you mention this podcast, you'll get a special discount of 10% off of any cell therapy.
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Go to rehealth.com.
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That's rehealth.com.
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But before you do that, let's jump into the show.
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Have you noticed that ashwagandha seems to be popping up in almost everything these days?
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Here's the problem.
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Not all ashwagandha is created equal.
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In fact, some countries have actually restricted certain ashwagandha products, not because the herb itself is the problem, but because the quality control has become the Wild West, with people cutting corners and using the wrong parts of the plant.
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And honestly, that explains why so many people take it and feel amazing, while others end up feeling foggy, nauseous, or just plain weird.
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As I said, sometimes it's not just the herbs.
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Sometimes it's the fillers.
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It's inconsistent extracts and questionable manufacturing practices hiding behind the label.
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Here's the thing about ashwagandha, folks.
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You do not want ashwagandha that was extracted by the leaves.
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You only want ashwagandha that it was extracted from the roots.
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This is one of the reasons I was so intrigued by Regenerife.
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Instead of using a generic ashwagandha extract...
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they've actually identified four new specific compounds associated with the benefits people actually are looking for.
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Things like supporting a healthy stress response, cognitive function, balanced inflammation, and cellular longevity.
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And these things show up in tangible results.
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better grip strength over time, better six minute walk test, better sit to sans test.
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These compounds actually activate sirtuin genes.
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So what Regenerive did is they created a precision extraction process to isolate these exact compounds without all the unnecessary extras.
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So if you've been curious about ashwagandha, but hesitant to jump on the bandwagon because all this noise, this might be the cleaner, smarter option you've been waiting for.
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Head on over to regenerive.co and use code NAT25 for a whopping 25% off your order.
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When I'm going through one of those phases where I want something sweet after lunch or dinner, I save my Mito Pure Gummies for that very moment.
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It feels like a treat, satisfies the craving, and I have absolutely zero guilt about it.
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But here's the thing.
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These gummies are doing a lot more than making my inner child happy.
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MitoPure by Timeline contains a patented form of urolithin A, a longevity nutrient that's been clinically shown to help renew aging cells.
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It works by supporting mitophagy, the process your body uses to recycle old inefficient mitochondria and create healthier cellular energy.
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What does this translate into?
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Support for muscle strength, recovery, endurance, and healthy aging.
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I also love what's not in them.
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No artificial sweeteners, no artificial colors, no artificial flavors, and not another capsule filled with fillers and excipients.
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And look, sometimes those fillers and excipients are necessary, but let's try and avoid them when we can, shall we?
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So Timeline's clinically proven formula also is now available at a new lower price, starting at $99.
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And you can still save 20% by heading over to timeline.com forward slash nat20.
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Dr. Rafael Gonzalez, welcome to the show.
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It is an absolute pleasure to have you here today.
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Thank you for taking the time.
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Thank you for having me here.
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It's a pleasure and honor to actually speak about my love, my passion of what I do and the immune system more than anything else.
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For sure.
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You started in spinal cord injury, which I think...
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It's kind of like, it's probably one of those things, like it's the big nut, right?
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Everybody thinks if we could just fix the spinal cord.
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Your work really focused on the spinal cord injury and the immune response, which a lot of people wouldn't put those two things together.
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Yeah.
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And I'm just curious if there was a particular experiment, patient or observation during that period that completely changed the way that you thought about this healing process.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, it's, I mean, when I looked at, you know, my thesis was looking at interactions following what's called secondary degeneration in the spinal cord.
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People don't know what is secondary degeneration.
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It's basically a process that when you look at it, it happens in spinal cord injury and it happens in brain trauma.
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What you have is basically an injury that transpires and then there's secondary degenerative effects that happen that cause the injury to become much worse.
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So when you looked at that is how do we study where does this secondary injury happen?
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What transpires?
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And it's actually all caused.
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The majority of it actually is caused by the immune system.
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Is it like inflammatory response, that kind of stuff?
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It's an inflammatory response because people don't quite understand.
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They think, well, the immune system on the outside of the body, and I look at this as two different entities.
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It's what we have, vasculature in our blood, the standard immune system that gets rid of a flu, a cough, a virus.
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versus what happens in the brain and the spinal cord.
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That's why the brain and spinal cord are encased in a skeleton itself.
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It's a complete different entity.
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The brain and spinal cord, we talked about earlier, one basic cell, microglial cell, that's what's the mount and immune response, help.
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And then the brain and spinal cord has a limited amount of plasticity or the ability to regenerate or to do what it needs to do versus our entire blood system regenerates.
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It's crazy, you know, depending on your age, depending how efficient your immune system is, depending on how efficient, you know, a lot of aspects of it are is the way it regenerates.
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But what we didn't understand, you know, originally when I first started in the 2000s was we knew there was some penetration of the immune system from the outside in, which is what's called at some juncture in your life.
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you'll have a leaky blood brain barrier or leaky blood spinal barrier.
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And it's one of the most common things with neurodegenerative disorders, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, that the immune system causes destruction.
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It's because the immune system from our regular vasculature goes in and penetrates and does what it's supposed to do.
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It mounts an inflammatory response, and the inflammatory response is kill, kill, kill, remove, remove, remove.
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But when you remove tissue in brain and spinal cord and you have limited ability to regenerate,
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what's going to happen is you don't get the, the, that healing that you get.
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And it's something that I studied.
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I studied it based on looking at, at a neutralizing antibody.
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So something that blocks an immune response.
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And, uh, now it's actually known as CXCL 10 and there's actually an antibiotic, excuse me, an antibody against it right now.
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And CXCL 10 or back then it was called IP 10.
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They changed it to nomenclatures, different nomenclatures.
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It basically tells a cell, it's a cell signaler, it's a chemokine, and it tells a cell to activate or not activate in the context of a T cell.
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It tells a T cell to activate or not activate.
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And in some instances, it can even bind to a different site and tell a cell to become a little bit more vasculature in nature.
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So promote angiogenesis.
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But when we talk about inflammation, it recruits a ton of T cells to come in, kill, attack, make clones, eliminate, and remove.
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And that's what it's dying for.
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So when you block that response, what transpires is you have a limited amount of inflammation.
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And in brain and spinal cord injuries, you would see the ability to regenerate better.
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So you restore that function.
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That's so interesting.
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Yeah.
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So when did you really start thinking that it was about modulating the immune response?
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Like that's, this is what you're saying, right?
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Like ultimately the secret, because I asked you off camera, why the heck haven't, you know, with all the stuff that's out there right now, why aren't we just able to bring spinal cord injury people in and fix it, right?
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Like regenerate it, just jam a bunch of stem cells and exosomes in there and make it better when you first entered it.
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And for many people is still very much framed around replacing damaged tissue.
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And yet at some point you kind of moved into this mindset of actually it's about modulating this immune environment, which you described because essentially the immune system, which is there to protect, destroys and it's destroying in an area being the central nervous system that doesn't have the ability to just regenerate.
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Correct.
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Yeah, 100 percent.
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It's it's yeah, it's it's it's in essence that.
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But at the same time, you know, we look at how do we stop that detrimental response?
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How do we modulate the immune system?
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But then when you look at the difficult part of how do I regenerate the tissue that I lost in the central nervous system when there's a serious limited amount of plasticity regeneration that transpires?
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You know, the majority of the stem cells are housed in the hippocampus in the brain.
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How do we get that to help regenerate?
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How do we get it to...
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migrate all the way down the spinal cord.
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It's difficult.
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And when you talk about injuries, you also talk about there's a lack of connections, like sonal, neuronal, neurotransmitter connections.
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The fear of one of the biggest fears is, OK, let's say if I was able to replace tissue or fix tissue,
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What happens to people, you know, we take this for granted is what happens to pain fibers.
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There's pain fibers in the central nervous system, too.
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What happens if they make the wrong connections and somebody is living in burning pain or living in individuals do live like this already, which is brutal and horrible?
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Yeah.
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How do we make those connections the right way?
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And then the other crazy interesting thing that we found in, you know, in a paper in 2008 that we published in Patients was you can have an individual.
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with this practically the same trauma, let's say a complete severed cord.
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And one individual has the ability to have trunk stability, sit up in a chair, stand up, control their bladder, and they have the same injury.
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The other one has zero function, no bladder, no bowel, no sexual function, not the ability to sit up on a chair, anything like that.
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Yet when you saw their injuries, they're practically the same.
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That's so interesting.
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Yeah.
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And it made it really, really difficult where, you know, when I thought of that back then, that's when I got into a little bit more working on, you know, cells, cell therapies, what was called back then cell replacement strategies.
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How do we replace where we know that we don't have, you know, we don't really replace cells.
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We force the endogenous system to help heal by using, you know, stem cells, cell therapies,
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You know, natural killer cells are something we talked about briefly, too, that we do quite a bit of work on.
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Elimination of senescence modulation, strengthening of the immune system to do so.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, that's so, do you have a hypothesis as to why one person can regain some function, right?
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I mean, they don't go back to normal, but why one person can regain function and the other one doesn't?
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Does it have to do, do you think, with maybe, well, it must have to do with their foundational immune response and maybe something like a pre-existing terrain that is in the one person more conducive to healing and the other one not?
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You basically answered the question pretty much.
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And crazily, for instance, in my lab here, you know, here in California, we study, and we've gotten answers because of this.
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We study natural killer cells a lot because we do have an autologous platform.
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And we now have an allogeneic from somebody else platform too.
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And the reason why we've gone allogeneic, meaning somebody else platform, is because this is the crazy thing about it is you can take my blood today
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And you can study my NK cells.
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And today I may have 16% of my natural killer cells that are active, that are better killers.
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And tomorrow, because I changed, just even ecologically going out, or I changed, I walked a mile versus two miles, tomorrow they're gonna be different.
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And similar things are going to happen in individuals, especially when we look at diets.
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One thing we talk about when we talk about collecting blood is, granted...
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I'm not, you know, I don't pick any particular diet, but, and I know keto going into keto is great and it works great.
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But when I collect blood from patients, and this makes sense, I tell them, I cannot have you be in ketogenesis.
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You can't be in keto when we do so.
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And they're like, well, why?
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I'm standing there.
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I need you to consume complex carbs, some carbs, because if you look what happens when you put yourself in ketogenesis, your immune system is efficient.
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However, it is somewhat quiescent.
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because the body feels good.
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When I collect something, I want somewhat of an active immune system.
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And when you consume carbs, cells turn over a lot more and I get more activation where I can produce more cells, where I have cells that kill better, meaning in vitro on a Petri dish that I can actually grow these, I can activate them better, and I can then work with something that's better versus something that's not better.
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But we've seen differences.
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We've collected cereal days of blood,
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And it's what we produce, what we look at killing activity on it, how they act, what they release.
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It's from one day to another.
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Sometimes it could be night and day.
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That's wild.
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And you're going to be the same.
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You're going to see the same thing in these patients that had the same injury.
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You know, I don't know if one was, you know, one of the injuries that I know of is a surfer that had a complete transection.
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Yet even with a complete transection.
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He lost function originally, but went back relatively quickly to be able to stand, to be able to have, you know, limited mobility.
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But he was still able to do a lot more versus another one that was just your standard individual that was an office worker that did work.
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You know, maybe something with muscle structure helping that person's immune system was a lot more active.
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It acted completely different where that other individual had the same type of an injury, you know, and they're not doing well.
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You know, no bladder function, no bowel function, no.
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It's a good thing you didn't say the office worker did better because I think that intuitively we would expect the surfer who is physically fit, who is maybe working those connections more actively.
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It's a completely different set of circumstances versus someone who may, and I don't know, you didn't say, but who may be living a fairly sedentary lifestyle, different kind of diet, doesn't spend time outside.
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You know what I mean?
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Like they're very different.
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individuals with very different physiological and biological realities that, that they're existing in.
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So anyway, that's pretty fascinating.
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Okay.
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I have a question for you.
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Is there anything that you believe 20 years ago that you no longer believe today?
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Yeah.
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I mean, some of the stuff from, from
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20 years ago, that was somewhat questionable, how much the immune system penetrates into the central nervous system, the brain and the spinal cord, which we now know causes a vast majority of all neurodegenerative diseases.
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I mean, there's a direct link.
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Just recently, they announced, hey, autism is a neuroinflammatory disease.
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You know, we now know that.
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And it's something that I saw coming down the pipeline, because when I looked at it, even genetics, I mean, we talked about earlier genetic diseases because we have a clinical study and one in the muscular dystrophy and
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you know, you look at, okay, but you're not, we're not solving the genetic issue.
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But if we're able to slow down the progression of the disease, the removal of muscle or the conversion of muscle to fat, which is what happens, then we've actually given individuals the ability to, you know, maybe in the context of Duchenne muscular dystrophy,
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they degrade relatively quickly once they hit their teens.
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If we can slow that down significantly, we have a fighting chance of somewhere along the line doing some form of modifications on the genetics, the genes, anything like that.
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And it gives, no matter what, I mean, if you look at the cancer therapy sector, a home run is extending somebody's life four months.
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Companies have approval based on extending somebody's life in four months.
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It may be a horrible four months of extension, but it's still something that's approved because ultimately we look at if you give somebody a fighting chance, there's a possibility of something else, you know, working.
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Right.
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Okay.
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Flip side.
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Is there, was there an idea 20 years ago that sounded super radical that you now believe that science has essentially vindicated at this point?
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I mean, there's actually, I think there's quite a few of those in the context of, you know, before it was standardly, you just take a cell and a cell can, you know, one of the biggest things is cell replacement strategies.
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A stem cell just replaces another cell and it integrates into an organ.
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And you still have some people that believe that you throw a stem cell in a body and it's going to start multiplying and replicating.
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It does not do that.
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We 100% know that it does not do that.
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Uh, we know that when it goes into a body, depending on where it's at, where it goes, depending on the condition of the patient, it acts differently.
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And this, we see it in two different methods of when we do it in vivo in a patient.
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And then also, believe it or not, you can see this in a Petri dish.
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When you put cells in different conditions, the cells react differently by signaling out different things and causing different, you know, try to repair.
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What we know now for sure is every single cell in the body does one thing.
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It strives to survive.
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It does not want to die.
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It does not want to turn over.
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It does this as much as it can.
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The body has to be in homeostasis.
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Otherwise, any little change, cells have to go into action of how are they going to repair?
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How are they going to fix the issue?
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And this is all done via signaling, whether it's an exosome, whether it's direct signaling, cell-cell signaling, whether it's a secret home.
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People don't spend enough time, which is something that we've started to focus on a lot, extracellular matrix.
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I mean, why wouldn't you look at this?
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You know, collagen, one in three of the most abundant proteins in our body and are 100% necessary to a complete healing response.
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Haloronic acid.
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the second most abundant analytes, not a protein, but it's considered under analytes.
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It's a gag.
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And we have to look at these things that form the 3D that we live in that are produced by cells, which is something that we spend a lot of time studying now that we're seeing that these things could help not only in the immune system, but in longevity.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Well, and you said before we came on camera, which feeds into this next line, you had said if you put 10 longevity experts into a room, they will ultimately eventually agree, whether they like it or not, because nobody likes to agree with anybody else in this space, it seems, that aging, healthy aging comes down to proper immune function.
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100%.
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Like, you know, because we're, you know, these days, I think the sweetheart is mitochondria, right?
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Mitochondrial dysfunction.
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We talk about senescent cells, which you talk about as well.
241
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We talk about epigenetic aging and metabolic dysfunction, but bottom line, and I actually there's a guy whose work I mentioned a lot in these podcasts because he's kind of very plugged in.
242
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Because he's, I don't know, because he's super smart and very, very dialed into research.
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And he even talks about fat loss and metabolic dysfunction within the context of the immune system.
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Yeah.
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His first book was, I can't remember the name of it, but it tied the immune system directly to...
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losing and gaining weight.
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And he talks about the extracellular matrix as being a critical component of how it responds to these fat cells shrinking and damaging the collagen fibers, the body replacing collagen with a different type of collagen.
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It's a fascinating space.
249
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So anyway, I don't know.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I agreed 100% with all of it because...
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What people don't understand is, first of all, there's many, many studies on thousands of patients.
254
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It's not something that I concocted or came up with or anything like that, on patients with aging.
255
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And if you look at the term that was coined in 2006, inflammation,
256
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I wrote a paper on this in the context of cell replacement strategies in the context of stem cells in 2016, one of the first of its kind that was published.
257
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And how do you control that inflammatory response?
258
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Because there's three common denominators with all these people that have neurodegenerative diseases, have cardiovascular diseases.
259
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And the commonality is basically three factors that are well studied, which is high sensitivity CRP, having this elevated it.
260
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Tumor necrosis factor alpha, having to salivate it, which is one of the key regulators of the immune system and pro-inflammatory responses.
261
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And then lastly, interleukin-6.
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If those things are elevated in the context of aging, you are heading towards a neurodegenerative disease, cardiovascular disease, et cetera.
263
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But a lot of people, I think it's, you know, what you don't understand and you have to understand the immune system really well.
264
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A lot of people, well, wait a second.
265
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I don't.
266
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Yeah, you don't want to be in a chronic inflammatory response.
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You want a balanced response.
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The problem is that nowadays there's many people that have been with coronavirus, Epstein-Barr virus,
269
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all these other viruses, they're in a state that there's no mounted pro-inflammatory response.
270
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And they're on a consistent healing response.
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And we consistently see the same thing.
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Individuals with Lyme disease.
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Yeah, yeah.
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All these.
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The immune system.
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Yeah, mold exposure is another one.
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Mold exposure, we consistently see a shift in NK cells from basically what's called CD56 killer to a dormant cell that's a CD57, basically somewhat non-functional, just a light signal, and that's about it.
278
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That doesn't work correctly.
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We will see that in all these individuals that are similar to same chronic fatigue syndrome, high viral titers, issues, and the immune system is not mounting a killing response.
280
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It's exhausted.
281
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It's trying to heal, heal, heal.
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You know, you can test for this by looking at TGF beta.
283
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You can test for this by looking at the regulatory response, you know, in a body.
284
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And you can look at that where at some juncture you have to remove TGF beta.
285
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One of the problems, which a lot of times I focus on removing Epstein-Barr virus, I think it's probably the problem with all of it because it's such a smart virus.
286
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And it's so prevalent, right?
287
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It's 85% of the patient population has it.
288
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This stuff hides.
289
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It's dormant in the dorsal root ganglion.
290
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And then it comes out and causes neurological havoc, cardiovascular havoc.
291
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It can cause all kinds of stuff.
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You know, you've now, I've talked about this a lot, is you've introduced, when everybody's sick now after the coronavirus, you've introduced another variant or something unusual that came in there.
293
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The immune system is stuck battling 15 things versus 12 things that it had to battle before.
294
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And where does it fight?
295
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Where does it win?
296
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Where does it win?
297
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It's not gonna win.
298
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It's like the UFC fighter can beat seven people, seven standard people on the street, but if you throw 10 standard people on the street,
299
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It's overwhelmed.
300
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Yeah.
301
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It's overwhelmed.
302
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It's going to, you know, that fighter is going to get knocked out.
303
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So would we say that the immune system's, because in some ways it's overactive in the sense that it's always working, but in another sense it's kind of...
304
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it might be almost weaker because it can't beat them?
305
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Or is it just like losing its focus kind of thing?
306
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Like it's becoming less, because sometimes we're seeing it become, turn into something autoimmune.
307
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Like, does it start to just...
308
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lose its ability to determine what's good, what's bad, what to attack, what not to attack.
309
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Like, are we basically seeing this, this, this, it's not just even an imbalance.
310
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It's like a loss of, of, of, I want to, I don't want to say the immune system doesn't understand, but it's, it starts to get fuzzy about what, what the enemy, who the enemy is.
311
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Cause there's just so many around like.
312
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Yeah, especially in the context of autoimmune.
313
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For instance, in autoimmune disease, we now know MS is virally immediate, caused by ARC.
314
00:26:18.419 --> 00:26:20.783
A long time ago, there was a hypothesis on
315
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All of this is basically virally mediated.
316
00:26:24.881 --> 00:26:29.902
It's now proven in multiple sclerosis and sooner or later it's going to be proven in autoimmune diseases.
317
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Because if you look at what, yeah, if you look at what viruses do, I mean viruses, you know, people don't even understand the difference between the virus and the bacteria.
318
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The virus requires a host, you're the host.
319
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It's a damn alien is what it basically is.
320
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There are some ones that live symbiotically with us, but it requires a host and then all of a sudden it replicates.
321
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It can be replicating with the cell that all of a sudden your immune system says,
322
00:26:51.628 --> 00:26:57.870
Well, wait a second, this new cell that can be skin that's been replicated has integrated into it.
323
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This doesn't make sense.
324
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This is not my normal skin.
325
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I need to attack and I need to remove it.
326
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The bad part about autoimmune diseases, what we're commonly seeing is two different things.
327
00:27:09.512 --> 00:27:15.554
It's on so much of an attack mode of removing an autoimmune disease that at some juncture it becomes exhausted.
328
00:27:16.822 --> 00:27:21.385
The exhausted aspect of it now leads to, unfortunately, cancer.
329
00:27:22.346 --> 00:27:28.690
But simultaneously, if you look at the drugs that are out there that are approved, they suppress the immune system.
330
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So what does the suppression of the immune system do?
331
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It enables other things to come in and cause havoc.
332
00:27:34.994 --> 00:27:41.819
That's why when you're watching the commercial at night of whatever the drug may be, it's always cancer is one of the listed things.
333
00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:44.341
Other infectious diseases are also listed.
334
00:27:44.361 --> 00:27:44.481
Right.
335
00:27:45.298 --> 00:27:48.499
there's a list of all of them that you can, because the immune system is suppressed.
336
00:27:49.059 --> 00:27:50.420
And, you know, I get it.
337
00:27:50.580 --> 00:27:55.482
It's a quality of living thing of, you know, do I have all these outbreaks on my skin?
338
00:27:56.322 --> 00:28:01.044
You know, we talk about, you know, psoriasis and the itching and the pain of it.
339
00:28:01.484 --> 00:28:04.185
If I suppress the immune system, they're most likely gonna get better.
340
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But it's a, you know, it's a dual-edged thing is you have to look at the long-term effects of it.
341
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So the ideal situation is you regulate
342
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the immune system and there's a particular cell in the body that's supposed to do that.
343
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It's a CD25 regulatory T cell.
344
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And it's supposed to maintain that balance between a mounted pro-inflammatory response and an anti-inflammatory healing response.
345
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A Th1 and a Th2 response, balance that correctly to do so.
346
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On the opposite spectrum, which is sort of crazy, and this is why the body and the immune system is so complex,
347
00:28:37.351 --> 00:28:38.671
Take a look at a cancer patient.
348
00:28:38.851 --> 00:28:43.472
A cancer patient has a significant amount of regulatory T cells, the same cell that we just talked about.
349
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And it's what causes the ability of not mounting a killing response to remove the tumor or to suppress that, you know, that killing response that is needed.
350
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It's, you know, I call the immune system sort of like a dual-edged sword is how do we balance it correctly?
351
00:29:00.375 --> 00:29:06.496
How do we mount that correct response in the context of cancer or in an immune state, you know, autoimmune diseases?
352
00:29:07.158 --> 00:29:17.103
And then in longevity, and longevity is nothing more important than the one commonality that they see of centenarians and all the studies is they have a complete balanced immune response.
353
00:29:18.135 --> 00:29:18.395
Wow.
354
00:29:18.675 --> 00:29:18.936
Yeah.
355
00:29:19.016 --> 00:29:20.537
Well, that's the superpower, right?
356
00:29:20.757 --> 00:29:21.597
Yeah.
357
00:29:21.798 --> 00:29:23.659
That is their superpower.
358
00:29:23.679 --> 00:29:36.568
I think it even transcends long telomeres because fundamentally, that balanced immune response is what's going to allow for the telomeres not to shorten preemptively.
359
00:29:37.368 --> 00:29:38.649
That's really fascinating.
360
00:29:38.949 --> 00:29:49.553
So what can you help us understand what's happening biologically when we have immunosenescence and inflammation when they start to feed each other?
361
00:29:49.573 --> 00:29:56.775
Like when you get that spiral, because I mean, you've mentioned inflammation and you mentioned immunosenescence earlier.
362
00:29:58.156 --> 00:29:58.656
What happened?
363
00:29:58.676 --> 00:30:00.337
What's happening when they're starting to kind of?
364
00:30:01.870 --> 00:30:03.454
two things working together.
365
00:30:03.635 --> 00:30:10.591
And what transpires is, you know, first of all, every cell in the body has a finite amount of divisions, which is called the Hayflick Limit.
366
00:30:11.354 --> 00:30:12.875
And even your immune system does so.
367
00:30:12.915 --> 00:30:14.436
Your immune system is supposed to turn over.
368
00:30:14.496 --> 00:30:21.220
The crazy aspect is you have about 300 billion cells that naturally go through apoptosis on a daily basis, which is crazy.
369
00:30:21.260 --> 00:30:22.541
You think about 300 billion.
370
00:30:22.981 --> 00:30:24.242
It's a lot.
371
00:30:24.782 --> 00:30:25.282
It's a lot.
372
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It's massive.
373
00:30:25.903 --> 00:30:26.743
It naturally happens.
374
00:30:27.564 --> 00:30:37.330
And you have cells that are these zombie cells, these senescent cells in the immune system, too, that with aging, all they do is occupy space.
375
00:30:38.250 --> 00:30:39.411
and cause havoc.
376
00:30:39.752 --> 00:30:47.238
And the havoc is caused by basically them releasing these what's called senescent associated secretory phenotype.
377
00:30:47.539 --> 00:30:51.822
It's a secret home that then causes neighboring issues.
378
00:30:51.963 --> 00:30:55.145
But more importantly, it activates the immune system.
379
00:30:55.806 --> 00:31:00.070
Same exact things that step on you for, you know, you cause oxidative stress in the body.
380
00:31:00.922 --> 00:31:05.743
When you go out in the sun too long, when you do too much exercise, the immune system has to clean that up.
381
00:31:06.043 --> 00:31:09.284
It's a secondary response, is the inflammatory response has to clean it up.
382
00:31:09.864 --> 00:31:25.527
Very, very similarly, the immune system is working efficiently, has to basically try to eliminate that senescent cell, or it basically has to pick up those senescent associated factors that are being released, you know, to clean it up, to keep it.
383
00:31:25.567 --> 00:31:27.468
That's how those two work hand in hand.
384
00:31:28.288 --> 00:31:29.228
And eventually,
385
00:31:30.182 --> 00:31:40.303
If you look at senescence, immunosenescence, senescence in the body, the only thing you can do to eliminate that senescence is basically try to slow down the progress of senescent associated factors,
386
00:31:41.241 --> 00:31:44.323
or straight out eliminate them, have them removed.
387
00:31:44.843 --> 00:31:50.206
And that's the job of a natural killer cell, which is supposed to do this on a regular basis, that it should do this.
388
00:31:50.807 --> 00:32:01.053
Because if you eliminate a cell in the body anywhere, we have a set amount of cells in our body, and it's as simple as looking at what transpires when people have liposuction.
389
00:32:01.173 --> 00:32:02.414
This is a complete cross.
390
00:32:02.574 --> 00:32:03.294
Yes, yes, yes.
391
00:32:03.314 --> 00:32:09.658
You know, somebody has liposuction in their gut, and they removed billions of fat cells,
392
00:32:10.594 --> 00:32:16.580
And they know this, the plastic surgeon will tell them, somewhere along the line, those fat cells have to come back somewhere.
393
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:17.140
And they do.
394
00:32:17.841 --> 00:32:25.828
They'll come back in a different area, they'll come back somewhere else, they have to come back somewhere, they distribute somewhere else, which is what commonly happens with these individuals.
395
00:32:26.208 --> 00:32:31.674
You have a set amount of cells in the body, the body lives in homeostasis, and these cells have to be replaced.
396
00:32:32.194 --> 00:32:35.457
When you eliminate senescence, a new cell has to come in.
397
00:32:35.577 --> 00:32:36.178
What does that do?
398
00:32:36.858 --> 00:32:38.159
It's like a natural regenerator.
399
00:32:38.239 --> 00:32:42.682
The bone marrow then says, yeah, the bone marrow says, I need to produce new progeny.
400
00:32:42.802 --> 00:32:45.424
And we have evidence of this with, we published a paper on it.
401
00:32:45.804 --> 00:32:53.449
We have evidence on this when we look at what transpires, because you can measure telomeres on an individual of, you know, they have senescence.
402
00:32:53.469 --> 00:32:57.452
You just measure their preferred blood mononuclear cells and you can see a level of it.
403
00:32:57.952 --> 00:32:59.373
You throw an NK cell in there.
404
00:32:59.453 --> 00:33:02.515
You now eliminate a lot of the senescent cells.
405
00:33:02.995 --> 00:33:04.296
You eliminate these cells that have...
406
00:33:05.309 --> 00:33:07.370
telomeres that are probably 5,000 base pairs.
407
00:33:08.130 --> 00:33:17.835
But then after you do this and you measure within a week, you will see a significant increase in the amount of base pairs that can go up to 7,000 base pairs or something like that.
408
00:33:18.395 --> 00:33:24.098
And then with time, that stuff starts to dip down with time because you've eliminated some senescence in the immune system.
409
00:33:25.358 --> 00:33:29.040
I have a question going back to the liposuction.
410
00:33:30.284 --> 00:33:34.510
Do they have to be fat cells that come back or can you build other tissue?
411
00:33:34.550 --> 00:33:39.917
Like for example, if someone has liposuction and then becomes an avid exerciser,
412
00:33:41.061 --> 00:33:42.641
and starts to build more muscle.
413
00:33:42.741 --> 00:33:45.762
So now you have more muscle cells instead of fat cells.
414
00:33:46.342 --> 00:34:01.366
Does the body accept the swap or does it demand, because those, because the excess fat you had wasn't, that's not your natural state, let's say, like it's an accumulation from lifestyle and whatever other reasons you put on all this extra fat.
415
00:34:03.247 --> 00:34:06.287
Is there a negotiation that can happen?
416
00:34:06.388 --> 00:34:08.008
We don't know, but if you think of
417
00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:13.143
of the theory of you have a set amount of cells, the swap should happen.
418
00:34:13.644 --> 00:34:14.604
It should be possible.
419
00:34:14.884 --> 00:34:15.965
It should be possible.
420
00:34:16.305 --> 00:34:16.706
Yeah.
421
00:34:16.826 --> 00:34:17.766
It should be possible.
422
00:34:17.907 --> 00:34:18.867
It should be able to happen.
423
00:34:18.887 --> 00:34:19.107
Yes.
424
00:34:19.608 --> 00:34:20.028
Interesting.
425
00:34:20.368 --> 00:34:20.628
All right.
426
00:34:20.689 --> 00:34:24.872
So I think you've already mentioned a bunch of these along the way.
427
00:34:24.932 --> 00:34:27.533
So maybe we could summarize for the audience.
428
00:34:28.114 --> 00:34:33.738
What are the immune biomarkers you believe that longevity medicine really should be measuring routinely?
429
00:34:33.758 --> 00:34:33.918
Yeah.
430
00:34:35.088 --> 00:34:38.170
Like you've mentioned it much here.
431
00:34:38.190 --> 00:34:45.396
The three that are published, well-published, well-documented in thousands of patients, standardly as HSCRP.
432
00:34:45.796 --> 00:34:47.577
This looks at your inflammatory response.
433
00:34:47.638 --> 00:34:48.638
This should be looked at.
434
00:34:49.039 --> 00:34:50.980
And this test costs $5.
435
00:34:51.020 --> 00:34:51.320
I don't know.
436
00:34:51.360 --> 00:34:52.581
It's something.
437
00:34:52.701 --> 00:34:53.422
It's nothing.
438
00:34:54.703 --> 00:34:56.764
Tumor necrosis factor alpha, that's not $5.
439
00:34:56.965 --> 00:35:00.147
But it is the regulator of the immune system.
440
00:35:00.687 --> 00:35:02.689
It is one of the activators of the immune system.
441
00:35:02.789 --> 00:35:03.850
It is actual drug.
442
00:35:04.646 --> 00:35:08.209
that is approved to suppress the immune system in autoimmune diseases, multiple.
443
00:35:08.609 --> 00:35:11.292
So it targets this tumor necrosis factor alpha to suppress it.
444
00:35:11.632 --> 00:35:16.016
So the immune system is dampened in multiple different drugs that are out there.
445
00:35:16.116 --> 00:35:17.817
And then the last one is interleukin-6.
446
00:35:18.257 --> 00:35:19.338
It's not normally measured.
447
00:35:19.859 --> 00:35:33.050
Yeah, and the crazy thing about interleukin-6 is if you look at the way it functions in the body, it serves as a pro-inflammatory molecule and also as an anti-inflammatory molecule, but more on the pro-inflammatory side of activation of immune cells.
448
00:35:33.783 --> 00:35:34.564
Okay, cool.
449
00:35:35.084 --> 00:35:35.825
Yeah, those three.
450
00:35:36.546 --> 00:35:46.975
So bigger question here, and because people talk about this all the time, and from your perspective, can we, is it possible to, for an old immune system to actually be made young again?
451
00:35:48.116 --> 00:35:49.437
Or are we just slowing things down?
452
00:35:50.498 --> 00:35:51.599
No, I think you can.
453
00:35:51.799 --> 00:35:53.801
There's many things you can do there.
454
00:35:54.442 --> 00:36:00.107
We talked about turnover that transpires on a regular basis, and the turnover forces new progeny to come out.
455
00:36:00.789 --> 00:36:03.471
And there's many things that I'm sure you've discussed with you.
456
00:36:03.491 --> 00:36:08.474
You know, you talk about the use of standard, simple people talk about, well, this stuff's not affordable.
457
00:36:08.834 --> 00:36:09.735
That stuff's not affordable.
458
00:36:09.755 --> 00:36:11.576
You have full control over what you put in your mouth.
459
00:36:11.656 --> 00:36:12.337
Diet is key.
460
00:36:12.857 --> 00:36:14.098
There's no if and buts about it.
461
00:36:14.138 --> 00:36:16.560
You know, there's so many studies on caloric restriction.
462
00:36:16.580 --> 00:36:20.882
I was going to say what you don't put in your mouth, actually.
463
00:36:21.083 --> 00:36:23.484
Yeah, what you don't put in, you know, what you don't put in your mouth.
464
00:36:24.045 --> 00:36:25.345
It's, you know, it's funny.
465
00:36:25.706 --> 00:36:27.027
I was going to A4M.
466
00:36:27.147 --> 00:36:29.008
I speak there yearly about the immune system.
467
00:36:29.587 --> 00:36:32.929
And I'm in an Uber and this gentleman asked me, hey, are you here for the cowboy show?
468
00:36:32.949 --> 00:36:34.229
Because it's at the same time all the time.
469
00:36:34.269 --> 00:36:34.369
Yes.
470
00:36:34.569 --> 00:36:36.750
Or are you here for the aging stuff?
471
00:36:37.150 --> 00:36:38.651
And I'm like, I'm here for the aging stuff.
472
00:36:39.892 --> 00:36:41.632
He's like, you know what?
473
00:36:41.752 --> 00:36:42.733
I'm 52 years old.
474
00:36:43.873 --> 00:36:45.754
I've noticed I'm having problems with my weight.
475
00:36:45.914 --> 00:36:48.335
I'm having problems with my health now.
476
00:36:49.056 --> 00:36:50.856
It's getting worse and worse on a daily basis.
477
00:36:51.857 --> 00:36:54.138
Can you give me what is the most important thing you do?
478
00:36:54.893 --> 00:36:56.014
you think is going to help me.
479
00:36:56.274 --> 00:36:59.895
And I just the first thing I was like, I first I was thinking about like, oh, that's a hard question.
480
00:37:00.575 --> 00:37:02.776
And then I just said, you know what, what you put in your mouth.
481
00:37:03.257 --> 00:37:04.897
And he's like, what do you mean what I put in my mouth?
482
00:37:04.957 --> 00:37:11.080
I said what you eat daily and what you supplement with, because many of us require supplementation.
483
00:37:11.957 --> 00:37:14.638
And he said, OK. And I said, and you have full control over that.
484
00:37:14.718 --> 00:37:17.479
You can't tell me you don't have control of what you put in your mouth.
485
00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:17.859
You do.
486
00:37:18.459 --> 00:37:22.660
Even if your arm is broken, you have the capability of doing this.
487
00:37:23.180 --> 00:37:24.921
Secondarily to that, exercise.
488
00:37:26.421 --> 00:37:28.401
And hand in hand, sleep.
489
00:37:29.162 --> 00:37:33.743
These are things that help the immune system, help slow down aging.
490
00:37:35.463 --> 00:37:37.664
The turtle lives forever because how much does he sleep?
491
00:37:40.886 --> 00:37:41.666
He sleeps a lot.
492
00:37:42.007 --> 00:37:44.688
He's slow, you know, and he sleeps a lot.
493
00:37:44.728 --> 00:37:45.529
And that's why he lives.
494
00:37:45.589 --> 00:37:46.389
And they don't move that much.
495
00:37:46.409 --> 00:37:48.030
The amount of cell turnover, they don't move that much.
496
00:37:48.070 --> 00:37:54.534
The amount of turnover that they have on cells, because it all boils down to turnover of cells, multiplication of cells.
497
00:37:55.054 --> 00:37:58.436
You can swim three slices of pizza versus one slice of pizza.
498
00:37:58.517 --> 00:37:58.797
I mean,
499
00:37:59.497 --> 00:38:01.298
get it, everybody has to cheat, everybody has to do this.
500
00:38:01.638 --> 00:38:03.279
And it's perfectly fine with limitations.
501
00:38:03.359 --> 00:38:09.502
Three slices of pizza is gonna cause metabolic function to increase cells to turnover significantly.
502
00:38:09.863 --> 00:38:13.965
Your gut immune system now goes into play of you have a massive inflammatory response.
503
00:38:14.425 --> 00:38:17.907
Cells just have to replicate to clear that mess.
504
00:38:17.927 --> 00:38:21.129
And you have to be able to, you have the opportunity to do this.
505
00:38:21.629 --> 00:38:27.432
I'm a strong believer of grounding, increases nitric oxide production, vasculature, increasing blood flow.
506
00:38:27.492 --> 00:38:28.713
These are things that are simple.
507
00:38:29.424 --> 00:38:31.865
to do's that you can introduce on a daily basis.
508
00:38:32.465 --> 00:38:41.449
You believe it or not, you have you have the capabilities of doing breathing exercises, breathing exercises, even help your immune system, even help the central nervous system.
509
00:38:42.590 --> 00:38:47.732
You know, all of this stuff is simple to do's that you can make a significant change on a daily basis.
510
00:38:48.203 --> 00:38:48.383
Yeah.
511
00:38:48.703 --> 00:38:51.124
You know, it's funny, we talk about this all the time, right?
512
00:38:51.144 --> 00:39:05.551
I mean, but it's remarkable that we have you, Dr. Rafael Gonzalez, PhD, Uber, stem cell, regenerative medicine dude, and he's, at the end of the day, diet, exercise, sleep.
513
00:39:06.331 --> 00:39:07.192
It boils down.
514
00:39:07.212 --> 00:39:11.874
Like, if you don't have that foundation down, there's literally no way around it.
515
00:39:12.774 --> 00:39:13.755
It's pretty dramatic.
516
00:39:14.589 --> 00:39:25.056
Yeah, I mean, even in, you know, for instance, even in the self-therapy field, we talk to people about that are going to get this or if anybody's going to go out of the country and pay for this.
517
00:39:25.076 --> 00:39:27.358
You know, ultimately, I'm saying you're going to invest in your health.
518
00:39:28.298 --> 00:39:35.743
You better think about the changes that you're going to make on a daily basis, because if you're a smoker and you have pulmonary fibrosis and you tell me, does this resolve pulmonary fibrosis?
519
00:39:35.783 --> 00:39:36.604
It possibly can.
520
00:39:36.664 --> 00:39:42.948
But if you continue to smoke, don't waste your time, your money, your effort into doing this because you're going to revert.
521
00:39:44.103 --> 00:39:44.964
it's going to be a problem.
522
00:39:44.984 --> 00:39:45.184
Yeah.
523
00:39:45.204 --> 00:39:47.047
You, you have to help these type of things.
524
00:39:47.587 --> 00:39:50.732
And it's, and these are lifestyle changes that you have to incorporate in there.
525
00:39:50.812 --> 00:39:55.298
And there's a crazy amount of people out there talking about, you know, a lot of this stuff that works well.
526
00:39:56.425 --> 00:39:56.765
For sure.
527
00:39:57.546 --> 00:39:58.046
Okay.
528
00:39:58.226 --> 00:39:59.907
Let's go to senescent cells for a minute.
529
00:40:00.187 --> 00:40:04.448
A lot of the longevity conversation around senescence focuses on senolytic drugs.
530
00:40:04.769 --> 00:40:09.971
And you talk about natural killer cells, which are essentially part of your own immune surveillance system.
531
00:40:10.471 --> 00:40:17.053
So are we potentially trying to solve pharmacologically something the immune system was originally designed to handle?
532
00:40:17.354 --> 00:40:22.516
Or with aging, does naturally, does the immune system kind of need a bit of a help?
533
00:40:22.596 --> 00:40:22.896
Because
534
00:40:23.496 --> 00:40:28.439
we're expecting ourselves to live longer and function better than let's say maybe we were supposed to.
535
00:40:28.459 --> 00:40:29.600
Yeah.
536
00:40:29.840 --> 00:40:39.746
It's, it's, it's actually both things because what transpires with aging is number one is the cells are no longer natural killer cells.
537
00:40:40.607 --> 00:40:41.127
They are,
538
00:40:42.362 --> 00:40:46.746
the dorm, I say dormant office workers, dormant government workers, whatever you want to call them.
539
00:40:47.146 --> 00:40:48.667
They ended up just being light signalers.
540
00:40:48.687 --> 00:40:49.728
They don't kill correctly.
541
00:40:49.748 --> 00:40:55.132
They don't have that correct phenotypic expression of they did when you were 20 years of age.
542
00:40:55.152 --> 00:41:07.182
A lot of people say there's a, there's a great publication for many years back that actually looked at the phenotype of, and then built anywhere from, from born to, I think it's 18 years of age.
543
00:41:07.222 --> 00:41:07.522
Then, um,
544
00:41:08.103 --> 00:41:10.485
Then they talked about middle age was 18 to 60.
545
00:41:10.705 --> 00:41:17.130
And then 60 to 80 was considered the old, which unfortunately I was like upset when I hit 60 because I'm like, damn, I'm old.
546
00:41:17.190 --> 00:41:17.830
I'm going to shit.
547
00:41:17.871 --> 00:41:18.411
Now I'm old.
548
00:41:19.111 --> 00:41:19.592
I'm with you.
549
00:41:19.672 --> 00:41:20.953
I'm with that publication.
550
00:41:21.353 --> 00:41:26.337
And then there's what's called the super old, which were over 80 years of age.
551
00:41:27.057 --> 00:41:33.903
And you can see the profile expression and it makes complete sense of, you know, the NK cell from 0 to 18, it's a good cell.
552
00:41:34.563 --> 00:41:35.264
It's a good cell.
553
00:41:35.954 --> 00:41:37.235
But it's not a developed cell.
554
00:41:37.415 --> 00:41:40.658
And if you look at what happens with, you know, all kids are sick.
555
00:41:40.698 --> 00:41:42.459
My grandkids are sick all the time.
556
00:41:42.479 --> 00:41:42.880
They're all sick.
557
00:41:42.900 --> 00:41:44.201
It's because the immune system is developing.
558
00:41:44.221 --> 00:41:45.562
It's still developing and doing the right thing.
559
00:41:45.902 --> 00:41:47.824
But those that were 18 and between 18 and 60, um,
560
00:41:50.892 --> 00:41:55.576
the natural killer cells, especially in those younger years, were phenomenal killers.
561
00:41:56.196 --> 00:41:58.278
You know, they kill at a frequency of one-to-one.
562
00:41:58.318 --> 00:42:02.221
We look at cytotoxicity, meaning, how efficient is one natural killer cell gonna kill?
563
00:42:02.241 --> 00:42:06.844
We have videos of it, which is pretty neat too, that you can see, wow, this thing works when it's in action.
564
00:42:06.904 --> 00:42:07.765
That'd be cool, yeah.
565
00:42:07.865 --> 00:42:14.150
Yeah, it's, you can see them killing, selectively picking out senescence cells, which is weird.
566
00:42:14.310 --> 00:42:17.713
I talk about this and I've seen this in both stem cells and senescence is,
567
00:42:18.769 --> 00:42:21.913
Guys, we become internally fat.
568
00:42:21.933 --> 00:42:26.419
And what I mean by that is our cells get larger and larger internally.
569
00:42:26.619 --> 00:42:28.501
And those are indicative of senescence.
570
00:42:29.102 --> 00:42:31.505
Those are indicative of aged stem cells, too.
571
00:42:32.206 --> 00:42:37.393
If I take a stem cell from myself, which I can get from my bone marrow, my fat, they're going to be about...
572
00:42:38.455 --> 00:42:43.256
starting population without even growing them up, about 20 microns, 22 microns in size.
573
00:42:43.736 --> 00:42:46.997
Versus if I take it from a young umbilical cord, it starts off at about 11 microns.
574
00:42:47.577 --> 00:42:48.998
You know, it's half the size.
575
00:42:49.438 --> 00:42:51.578
So the umbilical cord has to get places.
576
00:42:51.818 --> 00:42:53.179
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
577
00:42:53.299 --> 00:42:53.779
Exactly.
578
00:42:53.799 --> 00:42:57.860
And it can migrate a lot easier because when we talk about putting an IV, it has to go to the lungs.
579
00:42:58.340 --> 00:42:59.280
It resides in the lungs.
580
00:42:59.380 --> 00:43:00.961
How does it go through that vasculature?
581
00:43:01.421 --> 00:43:09.163
It has to actually, you know, extra, it has to extravate through to smash and be able to go through the rest of the body to get to where it needs to go.
582
00:43:09.423 --> 00:43:10.123
Interesting.
583
00:43:10.303 --> 00:43:10.844
To do so.
584
00:43:11.284 --> 00:43:16.145
And it's, we become, as these cells replicate out, even in petri dishes, you will see them growing.
585
00:43:16.465 --> 00:43:18.426
They get bigger and bigger, fatter and fatter.
586
00:43:18.986 --> 00:43:23.187
Senescent cells are big old cells that look like this versus a nice young cell.
587
00:43:23.547 --> 00:43:26.168
It's something that looks perfectly, you know, you know, we have images of it.
588
00:43:26.208 --> 00:43:26.748
You can see it.
589
00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:29.626
And it looks like that.
590
00:43:29.707 --> 00:43:33.080
And these NK cells are designed
591
00:43:33.927 --> 00:43:35.027
to remove them.
592
00:43:35.087 --> 00:43:36.328
It's one of their three jobs.
593
00:43:36.348 --> 00:43:39.688
There's a mutated cell, virally loaded cell, and a senescent cell.
594
00:43:39.788 --> 00:43:42.049
But if it's a light signaler, it doesn't do so.
595
00:43:42.589 --> 00:44:01.134
So that's why we take them from a body, we basically, we actually activate them, grow them, and then we look at how do we make them that not only do they kill more efficiency, meaning one cell can kill one cell that shouldn't be there, but how do we make them that they can serially kill, meaning they will target, bind,
596
00:44:02.655 --> 00:44:10.002
pierce a membrane, kill it, and then go up and then kill another cell and kill another cell and kill another cell.
597
00:44:10.102 --> 00:44:20.971
So they're active versus if you look at my cell straight from my body, which, you know, I'm like guinea pig number one on everything, is you basically look at straight from my blood.
598
00:44:21.512 --> 00:44:22.353
They are killers at cancer.
599
00:44:22.893 --> 00:44:26.194
anywhere from five to one to 10 to one, depending on the date.
600
00:44:26.514 --> 00:44:30.595
That's how we talk about the differences in the diet and the exercise and all that, depending on the date.
601
00:44:31.035 --> 00:44:38.257
But if I grow my, I activate them, I can now get them to kill out an efficiency of one to one or three to one.
602
00:44:39.057 --> 00:44:41.958
And then I can throw them back in to the body to do so.
603
00:44:42.438 --> 00:44:51.140
After years of digging into the science of hormones, performance and recovery, both for myself and for my clients, there's one thing I keep coming back to over and over again.
604
00:44:52.022 --> 00:44:52.362
the gut.
605
00:44:53.003 --> 00:44:55.024
Because here's the truth nobody tells you.
606
00:44:55.304 --> 00:44:58.626
If your gut isn't working, nothing else will work the way it should.
607
00:44:59.446 --> 00:45:09.231
Maybe for you that shows up as bloating after meals that you can't explain, skin that won't behave, sleep that won't cooperate, or energy crashes that make no sense on paper.
608
00:45:09.692 --> 00:45:11.693
If any of this sounds familiar, listen up.
609
00:45:12.333 --> 00:45:18.198
Probiotics can be a fantastic solution to transform your gut, but here's what most people won't tell you.
610
00:45:18.779 --> 00:45:26.726
The probiotic that you're taking is probably dead before it ever reaches your gut, because most brands on the market just can't survive your stomach acid.
611
00:45:27.246 --> 00:45:31.009
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612
00:45:31.569 --> 00:45:36.753
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613
00:45:37.293 --> 00:45:50.423
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614
00:45:50.443 --> 00:45:50.543
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615
00:45:51.183 --> 00:45:57.833
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616
00:45:58.334 --> 00:46:03.301
Now, little pro tip here, they also make this as a delicious gummy if you get the kid's formula.
617
00:46:03.662 --> 00:46:04.323
That's what I take.
618
00:46:04.563 --> 00:46:04.903
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619
00:46:05.945 --> 00:46:07.788
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620
00:46:08.208 --> 00:46:16.581
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621
00:46:16.901 --> 00:46:18.163
That's a $90 value.
622
00:46:18.604 --> 00:46:19.024
Now, why?
623
00:46:19.184 --> 00:46:21.468
Why would we add bitters to this equation?
624
00:46:21.908 --> 00:46:26.991
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625
00:46:27.371 --> 00:46:37.257
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626
00:46:37.737 --> 00:46:43.480
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627
00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:48.483
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628
00:46:48.503 --> 00:46:49.043
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629
00:46:49.163 --> 00:46:54.948
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630
00:46:55.609 --> 00:47:01.534
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631
00:47:01.934 --> 00:47:02.755
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632
00:47:03.495 --> 00:47:12.623
Tap the link in the show notes or go to justthrivehealth.com forward slash nat 20 and start your gut health journey today.
633
00:47:13.097 --> 00:47:16.340
The healthy cell will influence other cells to be healthier.
634
00:47:16.360 --> 00:47:22.846
The senescent cell will influence surrounding cells to also become, like somebody once described them as grumpy old men.
635
00:47:23.427 --> 00:47:23.687
Correct.
636
00:47:23.707 --> 00:47:31.555
The senescent cell will convince the cells around them to get grumpy and dysfunctional like it versus the healthy cell that has the capacity, like a really healthy cell.
637
00:47:31.575 --> 00:47:31.835
Right.
638
00:47:32.315 --> 00:47:35.658
that has the capacity to positively influence its surroundings.
639
00:47:35.898 --> 00:47:36.159
Correct.
640
00:47:36.199 --> 00:47:36.459
Yep.
641
00:47:36.799 --> 00:47:37.560
That's super cool.
642
00:47:37.820 --> 00:47:40.382
That's really neat that you can see that in a Petri dish, actually.
643
00:47:40.422 --> 00:47:42.004
We can see it in a Petri dish.
644
00:47:42.184 --> 00:47:55.536
You know, and on the opposite, on the senescent front, it's crazy how, because we've worked on producing meaning in vitro models of senescence, meaning a model that you could study that it's human cells that you can study versus going into mouse models, because the majority of stuff in mouse models
645
00:47:56.116 --> 00:47:56.797
never translated.
646
00:47:56.817 --> 00:47:57.537
Doesn't translate.
647
00:47:57.557 --> 00:47:58.638
You said that earlier.
648
00:47:58.658 --> 00:47:58.898
Yeah.
649
00:47:59.078 --> 00:47:59.318
Yeah.
650
00:47:59.379 --> 00:48:03.121
I mean, less than 5% of anything done in a mouse model translates to music.
651
00:48:03.402 --> 00:48:03.982
And it makes sense.
652
00:48:04.142 --> 00:48:04.863
I mean, we're not mice.
653
00:48:05.183 --> 00:48:06.424
You know, we don't walk on all fours.
654
00:48:06.444 --> 00:48:06.924
We're not mice.
655
00:48:07.284 --> 00:48:08.645
We have a completely different immune system.
656
00:48:09.646 --> 00:48:10.187
We're different.
657
00:48:10.507 --> 00:48:18.793
But if you look at in senescence, which is models that we've produced, at first, we're looking at how do we artificially induce senescence versus having to replicate, replicate, replicate.
658
00:48:19.153 --> 00:48:30.656
and wait months until a cell just becomes senescent, is I can take a senescent cell and I can mix it with a young cell and the phenotype I get out of there relatively quickly is an old cell.
659
00:48:31.256 --> 00:48:34.157
And it's because of those senescent associated factors that are released.
660
00:48:34.617 --> 00:48:36.817
So the senescent cell wins over the young cell.
661
00:48:36.977 --> 00:48:40.458
The senescent cell wins with relatively quick time.
662
00:48:41.658 --> 00:48:42.059
It wins.
663
00:48:42.099 --> 00:48:43.459
I produce that model a lot quicker.
664
00:48:44.119 --> 00:48:44.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
665
00:48:44.759 --> 00:48:45.779
Pigpen wins the day.
666
00:48:46.400 --> 00:48:46.800
Okay.
667
00:48:46.820 --> 00:48:48.580
All right.
668
00:48:48.620 --> 00:48:50.500
Last question in this area, and then we're going to move on.
669
00:48:50.940 --> 00:49:00.382
If you could restore youthful immune surveillance without touching anything else, how much downstream improvement would you expect in terms of inflammation, tissue repair, and violence?
670
00:49:00.583 --> 00:49:10.345
Like how important would that be to influence the downstream biological aging, the inflammation, the tissue repair, just by restoring youthful
671
00:49:12.923 --> 00:49:14.543
The immune system plays a role in everything.
672
00:49:14.563 --> 00:49:26.147
We're including mitochondrial health because mitochondria are key and mitochondria dysfunctional mitochondria release also exosomes too that cause more dysfunction.
673
00:49:27.727 --> 00:49:38.610
You know, if you look at not only that aspect, the aspect of oxidative stress, the ability to pick it up a lot quicker, all of it, if you can have a more youthful immune response,
674
00:49:39.635 --> 00:49:42.737
you will heal, repair a lot quicker.
675
00:49:42.897 --> 00:50:03.548
And what people don't understand, and a simple analogy of this is, and I'm going to take you back to both of our young days, is when you fell down when you were a kid or when you were 17, 18, the pain was excruciating because that immune response was so rapid, so quick to clear, to do everything, and inflammation is pain.
676
00:50:04.188 --> 00:50:04.408
Yeah.
677
00:50:04.668 --> 00:50:12.591
Simultaneously, you repaired so quick because not only was that pro-inflammatory, that heal that that that killer was fast.
678
00:50:13.271 --> 00:50:17.572
That in anti-inflammatory healing response was rapid.
679
00:50:18.113 --> 00:50:18.393
Right.
680
00:50:18.613 --> 00:50:25.735
When we fall, which happened to me like three years ago, I wiped out my kids like to get on a scooter, wiped out on a scooter.
681
00:50:26.315 --> 00:50:28.296
And they're like, oh, my God, it's a bad wipe out.
682
00:50:28.316 --> 00:50:29.636
I wiped out the whole side of my leg.
683
00:50:29.656 --> 00:50:30.176
I'm bleeding.
684
00:50:30.236 --> 00:50:31.157
They're like, are you OK?
685
00:50:31.297 --> 00:50:31.837
I got up.
686
00:50:32.357 --> 00:50:33.917
And I'm like, yeah, I'm okay.
687
00:50:33.937 --> 00:50:36.318
They're like, yeah, but look at the side of your leg.
688
00:50:36.518 --> 00:50:38.258
I'm like, yeah, don't worry about it.
689
00:50:38.278 --> 00:50:38.759
I'm okay.
690
00:50:39.499 --> 00:50:40.259
It's not that bad.
691
00:50:40.719 --> 00:50:45.720
And yes, I was achy the next day, the next eight days, ten days, whatever.
692
00:50:46.360 --> 00:50:48.761
But it wasn't that painful response.
693
00:50:48.781 --> 00:50:50.261
Yeah, that's so interesting.
694
00:50:50.821 --> 00:50:58.943
And it took me a long time to heal versus my kids would have – that would have been scarred, wiped in a week.
695
00:50:59.423 --> 00:50:59.763
Yeah.
696
00:51:00.104 --> 00:51:00.684
And gone in a week.
697
00:51:00.704 --> 00:51:01.664
And they would have been screaming.
698
00:51:02.451 --> 00:51:03.892
And they would have been screaming and crying.
699
00:51:04.392 --> 00:51:05.833
Yeah, that's so interesting.
700
00:51:06.113 --> 00:51:15.618
But I, you know, it's funny, I've always thought of like elderly people often don't seem to experience pain, like acute pain in an injury like that.
701
00:51:16.078 --> 00:51:21.942
But I've never really thought about, like there's degrees of it that develop over the decades, let's say.
702
00:51:22.302 --> 00:51:24.863
That's depressing and interesting all at the same time.
703
00:51:25.323 --> 00:51:25.724
Yeah, it is.
704
00:51:26.717 --> 00:51:31.498
Yeah, the funny thing is that people get, as they get older, they say, oh, my tolerance for pain is much higher.
705
00:51:31.558 --> 00:51:33.018
I'm like, yeah, because you're older.
706
00:51:33.038 --> 00:51:38.760
Because those sensory nerves are not as effective as they used to be.
707
00:51:38.920 --> 00:51:45.521
I want to get to re-stem right now because you have, it's your brand is re-stem.
708
00:51:45.721 --> 00:51:52.143
And what you're studying, like, you know, I'm kind of fast tracking us because we're talking, we've been talking for too long about the wrong thing.
709
00:51:52.223 --> 00:51:53.303
Well, I mean, good things.
710
00:51:53.323 --> 00:51:56.264
We've laid the foundation, but we need to get to the meat of the issue here.
711
00:51:57.997 --> 00:52:04.824
By now, people should understand why Restem is really studying umbilical cord lining derived progenitor cells.
712
00:52:04.844 --> 00:52:09.689
So baby new cells for immune mediated conditions.
713
00:52:10.010 --> 00:52:13.113
So there's no question that this is the way to go at this point.
714
00:52:14.211 --> 00:52:29.141
based on everything that we've been talking about, this whole, all of this stuff that's out there right now of Tron trying to use people's own stem cells, unless you're a small child, or maybe is it possible to bank yourselves when you're little and use them later or...
715
00:52:30.042 --> 00:52:31.763
Is the, from what, from your research?
716
00:52:31.943 --> 00:52:32.564
They do it now.
717
00:52:32.824 --> 00:52:34.045
They're doing it now in umbilical cord.
718
00:52:34.065 --> 00:52:36.227
You can bank your, you know, your kid's, your kid's tissue.
719
00:52:36.247 --> 00:52:39.089
If it's grown the right way, if it's done the right way, it's not that easy.
720
00:52:39.569 --> 00:52:44.533
They also banked the umbilical cord blood, but that's more in the context of hemopoietic replacement.
721
00:52:44.573 --> 00:52:53.079
If God forbid your baby, your child is born with a human's biological disorder, cancer or something like that, you want to replace the immune system and you can do it with, with that particular cell.
722
00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:54.140
Um...
723
00:52:55.362 --> 00:53:00.946
I've studied more, I mean, I've published in the bone marrow sector, fat sector, all the different cell types have studied this really, really well.
724
00:53:01.747 --> 00:53:14.257
You know, I go back to one of the aspects of many, many years ago when we started growing, you know, the standard field growth cells in high glucose formulations, meaning sugar-based formulations, to produce more cells, which is very, very common.
725
00:53:14.697 --> 00:53:20.682
And we started studying diet and cell kinetics and ability to modulate the immune system.
726
00:53:21.182 --> 00:53:24.805
And ultimately what we found is putting the cells in the right diet
727
00:53:25.657 --> 00:53:30.741
is what gives us the ability to produce like what we were talking about earlier from a segment of cord this large.
728
00:53:31.261 --> 00:53:36.185
I can produce a million doses of 100 million cells as long as it's from the correct donor that we've qualified.
729
00:53:36.905 --> 00:53:45.892
And they're a biological age based on telomerase activity of about 20 years of biological age, which is when your immune system is at its peak.
730
00:53:45.912 --> 00:53:46.452
At its peak.
731
00:53:46.953 --> 00:53:47.473
Yeah.
732
00:53:47.853 --> 00:53:49.014
As long as you're healthy.
733
00:53:49.074 --> 00:53:50.796
They're crazy strong modulators.
734
00:53:51.436 --> 00:54:02.006
They don't serve as, you know, our clinical studies that we have clearly show us that they serve sort of like a polypharmaceutical, which where you look at pharmaceuticals, they target one pathway pretty standardly.
735
00:54:02.027 --> 00:54:02.647
Right.
736
00:54:02.727 --> 00:54:13.538
Always target multiple pathways of not only suppressing that bad inflammatory response, but also increasing that healing response when needed the correct way.
737
00:54:14.398 --> 00:54:20.540
Well, what yours is essentially doing is tapping into the body systems and letting it go the way it's supposed to.
738
00:54:20.900 --> 00:54:21.400
Correct.
739
00:54:21.500 --> 00:54:26.162
I mean, a pharmaceutical can only hit one pathway, which is fundamentally why they're so limited.
740
00:54:26.182 --> 00:54:29.443
I mean, sometimes they can save your life, as we've talked about earlier.
741
00:54:30.463 --> 00:54:40.790
in an acute situation, but fundamentally they never, they almost always failed to address the foundational issue, which is why down the road you're, you don't always end up better off.
742
00:54:40.890 --> 00:54:49.296
I mean, you end up living longer, which is good because you have more opportunities to figure it out, but it's not, it's never going to be the final answer almost.
743
00:54:49.376 --> 00:54:49.656
Yeah.
744
00:54:50.396 --> 00:54:50.577
Correct.
745
00:54:50.597 --> 00:54:50.737
Yeah.
746
00:54:50.757 --> 00:54:50.877
Yeah.
747
00:54:51.577 --> 00:54:53.439
So let's review for people.
748
00:54:53.459 --> 00:55:00.105
I mean, I think you've already addressed this, but just a quick recap, like stem cells therapies often fail for people.
749
00:55:00.365 --> 00:55:02.747
And so let's talk about where the weight is on that.
750
00:55:02.907 --> 00:55:05.289
Is it the type of cell that's used?
751
00:55:05.409 --> 00:55:08.032
Is it the dose, the patient, the disease?
752
00:55:08.172 --> 00:55:13.176
I mean, it's all of the above, but maybe do you want to talk a little bit about the weight you would assign?
753
00:55:13.216 --> 00:55:13.396
Yeah.
754
00:55:14.632 --> 00:55:15.572
A hundred percent.
755
00:55:15.592 --> 00:55:26.616
So it's a lot of them that fail is not addressing what's inherently transpiring with the patient is one and two, not addressing or knowing how to grow cells the correct way.
756
00:55:26.796 --> 00:55:37.119
This is, you know, people talk about the FDA as a pain, they're difficult, but ultimately what you have to look at is they're looking after your safety and they look real deep.
757
00:55:37.279 --> 00:55:39.140
You know, when we submit a documentation,
758
00:55:39.935 --> 00:55:40.856
on this is a drug.
759
00:55:41.716 --> 00:55:48.580
You know, we're talking about 400 pages of documents of studies of how it works, what it does, how it does it, how it's safe.
760
00:55:49.240 --> 00:55:51.361
You know, what is it, the potency of it?
761
00:55:52.279 --> 00:55:58.746
you know, all of this, not only in the possibility in an animal, but also in the possibility in vitro with other cells, how it works.
762
00:55:59.126 --> 00:56:08.115
And now, which fast forward, we have multiple clinical studies in human beings, how this is actually working and what it's doing and what are the results we're seeing.
763
00:56:08.696 --> 00:56:14.662
It ultimately boils down to how you're growing the cell, how you're isolating the cell and what you're doing to it.
764
00:56:14.842 --> 00:56:15.183
Because
765
00:56:16.157 --> 00:56:21.982
The simple thing of like, you know, a lot of times people send me, I've been in the sector for a long time, they'll sell me, they'll send me other people's cells.
766
00:56:22.423 --> 00:56:23.604
Hey, can you test this for me?
767
00:56:24.124 --> 00:56:27.668
Especially in the U.S. now, there's a bunch of companies, there's a million companies now.
768
00:56:28.148 --> 00:56:29.009
You know, they'll send me it.
769
00:56:29.209 --> 00:56:35.615
And what you don't understand is if you have a product that when you thaw it out and the viability is 50%, 60%,
770
00:56:37.608 --> 00:56:38.389
This is a problem.
771
00:56:38.609 --> 00:56:41.411
And the reason why it's a problem, so yeah, but it still has active ingredients in there.
772
00:56:41.551 --> 00:56:42.331
Well, guess what?
773
00:56:42.351 --> 00:56:44.113
It also has DNAs.
774
00:56:44.733 --> 00:56:47.976
And these are enzymes that when cells die, they release.
775
00:56:48.096 --> 00:56:49.457
It causes cells to aggregate.
776
00:56:49.537 --> 00:56:51.178
Not only that, it causes other cells to die.
777
00:56:51.798 --> 00:56:55.121
So you will have individuals, and there's people out there, and they will talk about it.
778
00:56:55.181 --> 00:56:58.163
And there's people out there that have been treated, and they've actually gotten worse.
779
00:56:58.978 --> 00:57:04.381
And there's no reason why you shouldn't got you should have gotten worse because worst case scenario, it's safe.
780
00:57:04.641 --> 00:57:05.342
It did nothing.
781
00:57:05.882 --> 00:57:06.823
Best case scenario.
782
00:57:07.103 --> 00:57:12.866
It basically acted upon your disease if it was used the right way and if it's the correct cell type.
783
00:57:13.947 --> 00:57:14.527
That's what it is.
784
00:57:14.587 --> 00:57:16.448
This is absolutely not a cure all.
785
00:57:17.589 --> 00:57:22.712
If anybody tells you this is a one and done thing, they're lying to you, especially in a diseased state.
786
00:57:23.553 --> 00:57:23.753
Yeah.
787
00:57:23.894 --> 00:57:40.389
Because what we're consistently seeing is that individuals that are refractory to other drugs in the autoimmune space, whether it's ulcerative colitis that we have a clinical study on, whether it's refractory RA, this requires a treatment regimen to try to basically modify the immune system, which is what our goal is.
788
00:57:40.789 --> 00:57:43.452
How do I bring your immune system back to a younger state?
789
00:57:43.472 --> 00:57:44.233
That's our company goal.
790
00:57:44.253 --> 00:57:44.393
Yeah.
791
00:57:44.893 --> 00:57:46.114
is how do I modify it?
792
00:57:46.315 --> 00:57:48.637
That's why a lot of these cells, you know, modify the immune system.
793
00:57:49.157 --> 00:57:50.178
It takes time.
794
00:57:50.518 --> 00:57:53.141
It takes time and it takes treatment regimens.
795
00:57:53.421 --> 00:57:55.403
That's why there are clinical studies out there.
796
00:57:55.423 --> 00:57:59.126
You know, our first studies were one dose and looking at dose responses.
797
00:57:59.166 --> 00:58:01.288
Was it 50 million, 100 million, 200 million?
798
00:58:01.928 --> 00:58:06.593
And then what did we see from there to select a dose for the efficacy portion of it?
799
00:58:07.814 --> 00:58:09.015
of moving forward for it.
800
00:58:09.155 --> 00:58:14.399
But what we consistently saw was there's an initial spike improvement in autoimmune diseases.
801
00:58:14.939 --> 00:58:17.521
And then with time, they revert.
802
00:58:18.482 --> 00:58:23.767
So if they revert, at what juncture do we have to do the intervals of this?
803
00:58:24.287 --> 00:58:27.950
And because of the clinical studies, we know that these are the intervals.
804
00:58:28.630 --> 00:58:32.113
Depending on the disease, three months, it can be four months.
805
00:58:32.674 --> 00:58:33.574
And these are the intervals.
806
00:58:33.875 --> 00:58:36.457
Whether those intervals have to continue
807
00:58:37.700 --> 00:58:42.724
or whether at some juncture we can consider, okay, you seem like you're in complete control.
808
00:58:43.185 --> 00:58:48.869
We can consider stopping the therapy because maybe the immune system has reverted back to the, where it was supposed to be.
809
00:58:49.029 --> 00:58:49.389
Right.
810
00:58:49.850 --> 00:58:50.130
Right.
811
00:58:50.690 --> 00:58:56.375
And those are the, those are the unknowns that clinical studies actually help us answer those questions.
812
00:58:56.675 --> 00:58:56.955
Right.
813
00:58:57.256 --> 00:58:58.477
That's so fascinating.
814
00:58:59.498 --> 00:59:02.240
So people have become obsessed with exosomes.
815
00:59:02.260 --> 00:59:02.380
Right.
816
00:59:04.226 --> 00:59:09.255
Are they really like people are doing exosome infusions with nothing else.
817
00:59:09.896 --> 00:59:13.062
And I want to ask you about new cells also, but let's start with exosomes first.
818
00:59:13.102 --> 00:59:15.686
Like exosomes have become the new sexy thing.
819
00:59:15.706 --> 00:59:15.787
Yep.
820
00:59:17.307 --> 00:59:24.431
you know, are they really the most therapeutically valuable component of conditioned media or is the real answer that you need at all?
821
00:59:24.691 --> 00:59:25.831
Like you need that secret home.
822
00:59:25.851 --> 00:59:29.733
You need the whole, all of the things to get the value.
823
00:59:30.274 --> 00:59:30.534
Yes.
824
00:59:30.694 --> 00:59:33.235
This is the, the word exosomes is beyond sexy.
825
00:59:33.435 --> 00:59:39.578
It's like when people talk to you about, you know, they say stem cells and then all they're doing is collecting, they're collecting your bone marrow, they're collecting your fat.
826
00:59:40.038 --> 00:59:40.639
Hey, guess what?
827
00:59:41.079 --> 00:59:43.060
Yeah, I collected your bone marrow and, you know,
828
00:59:43.611 --> 00:59:50.314
In that bone marrow, what's actually in there, the amount of stem cells is one in a million when you're about 40 years of age.
829
00:59:50.934 --> 00:59:53.915
So is it really the stem cell or is it other cells that are in there?
830
00:59:54.255 --> 01:00:00.278
So I'm fishing in the ocean that there's a million barracuda and one tuna and I got to catch that tuna.
831
01:00:01.138 --> 01:00:02.639
That's what people don't understand.
832
01:00:02.659 --> 01:00:05.600
Yet they call it stem cells because the term stem cell is sexy.
833
01:00:06.565 --> 01:00:09.006
And it's what's supposed to have the therapeutic action of it.
834
01:00:09.046 --> 01:00:12.306
Yet you're not considering in the bone marrow those endothelial progenitor cells.
835
01:00:12.867 --> 01:00:17.428
There's immune cells that do a lot of work to, you know, all that doesn't mean that it doesn't work.
836
01:00:17.488 --> 01:00:22.469
I've seen phenomenal work with, you know, with bone marrow and with that too, that that actually works well.
837
01:00:22.529 --> 01:00:25.610
But ultimately, it varies from an individual on day to day basis.
838
01:00:26.150 --> 01:00:26.630
Right.
839
01:00:26.790 --> 01:00:30.691
You know, on there, the exosome is the same exact thing, what you're hearing.
840
01:00:30.791 --> 01:00:32.411
Everybody's using that term exosome.
841
01:00:32.751 --> 01:00:36.052
It should be called the secretome or conditioned media, depending on how you make it.
842
01:00:37.372 --> 01:00:59.259
because the way you isolate, you know, if you look at exosomes, what we know now, and you should be asking the questions of, is it truly an exosome following when I get it, when I thaw it, when I use it, show me that there's the particular markers you look at outside of the exosome, three markers, CD3, I think, yeah, CD3, 63, 81.
843
01:00:59.619 --> 01:01:03.900
You look at those three different things and how much of that is actually in there.
844
01:01:04.634 --> 01:01:05.535
And is it viable?
845
01:01:05.835 --> 01:01:08.096
And what is the bioactive molecules in it?
846
01:01:08.196 --> 01:01:11.038
Because the exosome is not what it does.
847
01:01:11.118 --> 01:01:13.159
It's just, it's a protective mechanism.
848
01:01:13.359 --> 01:01:13.960
It does nothing.
849
01:01:14.000 --> 01:01:17.642
It doesn't matter if you have a trillion of them, if you have 50 billion of them, it doesn't matter.
850
01:01:18.243 --> 01:01:25.647
Show me how much protein is function, how much protein is in that product, and what is the bioactive molecule in there?
851
01:01:26.307 --> 01:01:31.751
I personally think it's somewhat crazy of people using exosomes from amniotic fluid from one donor, another donor, another donor.
852
01:01:33.630 --> 01:01:37.592
Your kids are completely different than my kids, than Joe Schmo's kid, than everybody else.
853
01:01:37.973 --> 01:01:38.373
Guess what?
854
01:01:38.393 --> 01:01:51.140
When they were developing and we've studied this, we've looked at this, the proteins from each one of these, and they're obtaining maybe 200 mLs or 3-albamiotic fluid or whatever it is, which is loaded with antibodies, which is loaded with a bunch of other stuff in there.
855
01:01:52.981 --> 01:01:53.922
It's completely different.
856
01:01:54.222 --> 01:01:55.443
The profile is completely different.
857
01:01:56.250 --> 01:02:04.482
You know, I would, I would, you know, I just get blown away when I hear people are putting this in their, you know, in their bodies and, and you don't know the viral titers, you don't know.
858
01:02:05.304 --> 01:02:33.013
the whatever they got the mom got COVID guess what that goes into you know this kind of stuff you don't really know you don't know a lot of stuff and there's too many unknowns you don't even know if if there's genetic operations there when we grew up you know we started growing up in bill record and we started collecting we have three donors that we use in our clinical studies we grew up over 30 and the problems the vast majority of the problems was as we grew them up there was genetic aberrations you can't use them yeah we would find Turner syndrome and we go back to parents and say
859
01:02:33.890 --> 01:02:35.251
we found this issue with this.
860
01:02:36.571 --> 01:02:37.272
Can you test?
861
01:02:37.752 --> 01:02:40.913
And then it's, you know, like in the context of Turner syndrome, which was a lot more common.
862
01:02:41.673 --> 01:02:43.694
Oh, it's funny because we couldn't get pregnant.
863
01:02:43.914 --> 01:02:45.495
It took us a really long time to get pregnant.
864
01:02:46.115 --> 01:02:47.096
Can you test yourself?
865
01:02:47.216 --> 01:02:51.698
One of you two has an extra X chromosome and baby definitely has it because we've tested this vigorously.
866
01:02:52.298 --> 01:02:55.699
100% of the times it would come back, you know, with this.
867
01:02:56.120 --> 01:03:00.942
And it's a little worrisome that you're going to put something in your body that carries the possibility of,
868
01:03:01.782 --> 01:03:02.582
transferring something.
869
01:03:02.602 --> 01:03:05.743
So you're talking about young plasma now, using young plasma?
870
01:03:06.004 --> 01:03:12.506
No, I'm talking about exosomes, even exosomes because they do carry messenger, they carry DNA, they carry all of it.
871
01:03:13.886 --> 01:03:15.647
This stuff carries information in there.
872
01:03:15.787 --> 01:03:25.370
Unless you're eliminating the DNA, unless you're eliminating the RNA, which is not that simple to do, not that straightforward, there's information in there that can carry over.
873
01:03:26.151 --> 01:03:30.252
So it's something that people should take caution with.
874
01:03:30.954 --> 01:03:37.059
There is reactions with this stuff because I've heard them, I've seen them with individuals using this stuff.
875
01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:38.140
You just have to be cautious.
876
01:03:38.840 --> 01:03:42.983
You know, you have to go back to the manufacturer, understand what's the active ingredient, what am I doing?
877
01:03:43.784 --> 01:03:44.705
What's in this product?
878
01:03:44.925 --> 01:03:45.465
What's in there?
879
01:03:45.485 --> 01:03:46.346
How much have you tested?
880
01:03:46.366 --> 01:03:47.087
What have you tested?
881
01:03:47.587 --> 01:03:48.608
I don't care if it's a trillion.
882
01:03:48.628 --> 01:03:50.629
Yeah, what's it been screened for?
883
01:03:50.970 --> 01:03:52.811
You know, they'll tell you, here's a standard screening of it.
884
01:03:52.911 --> 01:03:54.612
Well, have you looked at the genetics of this?
885
01:03:54.833 --> 01:03:55.473
Probably have not.
886
01:03:57.054 --> 01:04:00.217
You know, in the context of the cells that produced this, it's just,
887
01:04:01.047 --> 01:04:08.452
It's a little bit, it's not a little bit, it's a lot of bit of the wild, wild west, which is now, of course, transpiring, which is now, of course, that's transferred into the peptide sector, too.
888
01:04:08.912 --> 01:04:09.072
Yeah.
889
01:04:09.192 --> 01:04:09.853
Oh, no, listen.
890
01:04:10.053 --> 01:04:10.313
I know.
891
01:04:10.633 --> 01:04:12.735
We do not even begin to have time to go there.
892
01:04:12.755 --> 01:04:13.855
We're going to have to have a part two.
893
01:04:14.296 --> 01:04:22.141
But, you know, it's a big, I mean, the wild, wild west is exactly what I was about to kind of say.
894
01:04:23.231 --> 01:04:28.685
follow up with is it's become insane how, and how available it is.
895
01:04:31.783 --> 01:04:47.130
Like it's becoming really, for a lot of the, for people with certain, you know, in a certain strata, which doesn't even need to be a multi-bajillionaire at this point, it's becoming really, it's being made more accessible and it's being made more affordable.
896
01:04:47.670 --> 01:04:54.993
And it sounds like there's a whole lot of questions you need to be asking that aren't being asked and therefore people aren't necessarily looking at it.
897
01:04:55.153 --> 01:04:59.455
So what's the strongest human evidence today for cell secreted products today?
898
01:04:59.575 --> 01:05:04.626
Would it be wound healing, inflammation, skin, hair, musculoskeletal repair, neurological disease?
899
01:05:05.293 --> 01:05:12.318
I would say topically right now, a lot of people using this stuff topically, definitely heals following micro needling radio frequency, CO2 fractured laser type of things.
900
01:05:12.758 --> 01:05:15.620
Works really, really well, helps healing response a lot faster.
901
01:05:17.341 --> 01:05:29.289
That's one secondarily to that would probably be in sports medicine, osteoarthritis, muscle tears, et cetera, which we're doing quite a bit of studies on, on that type of stuff too.
902
01:05:29.489 --> 01:05:29.769
And then,
903
01:05:31.001 --> 01:05:43.672
You know, I don't know, you know, for instance, there's now the furthest along there's a company, actually, I think they're in phase three, if I'm not mistaken, for respiratory distress syndrome, which because of COVID, you know, they actually went into that.
904
01:05:43.732 --> 01:05:49.017
I don't know where the status of that whole thing is, but they're probably the one that's, you know, one of the ones that are the furthest along.
905
01:05:50.623 --> 01:05:57.327
you know, studying that, you know, acute respiratory distress syndrome, studying that it's the most amount of evidence.
906
01:05:57.347 --> 01:06:00.249
There's not that many, you know, there's more and more clinical trials.
907
01:06:00.649 --> 01:06:09.955
The problem is a lot of times people go on to clinical trials at GOV and they'll look up something and they'll see a lot of that stuff's not a real clinical study.
908
01:06:12.238 --> 01:06:27.831
you know they're not true clinical studies they're ones that just people registered on there and they're not really controlled clinical studies you know one of the aspects that you talked about earlier was Muse is taking the US and everywhere by storm I've tested a bunch of this stuff I've tested a bunch of this stuff and it's
909
01:06:28.812 --> 01:06:29.933
not what it's panning out to be.
910
01:06:29.953 --> 01:06:36.416
And all of it came because it's a different cell type that's stressed, that there's a very small portion of it.
911
01:06:36.776 --> 01:06:40.658
But yet when you grow these things up, they change phenotypically because I've seen them change.
912
01:06:41.238 --> 01:06:45.901
Half the stuff that I've tested has been dead or not even viable or not good.
913
01:06:46.001 --> 01:06:52.264
And that, you know, they talk about, I mean, there's all kinds of people making generics of this or making whatever it may be.
914
01:06:53.604 --> 01:06:54.825
There's a ton of issues there.
915
01:06:55.085 --> 01:06:56.506
I know individuals that have gotten hurt.
916
01:06:57.437 --> 01:07:03.889
not only with regular cells, but also with this stuff, because I have colleagues that will reach out and say, Hey, can you help them?
917
01:07:03.990 --> 01:07:05.793
And you just have to, you have to be cautious.
918
01:07:05.833 --> 01:07:08.017
I mean, there's individuals that have spoken out there, you know,
919
01:07:08.828 --> 01:07:12.911
Dr. Josh Axe is one of them at, you know, he got into a serious nightmare.
920
01:07:12.931 --> 01:07:15.032
He got into real trouble, came to us.
921
01:07:15.072 --> 01:07:15.592
We helped them.
922
01:07:15.612 --> 01:07:19.355
We got them, you know, back on, get back up, understand it, especially with his injury.
923
01:07:19.875 --> 01:07:26.019
I know that well because I'm from the spinal cord injury sector and help them, you know, get back up using the right stuff, getting it healthy.
924
01:07:26.059 --> 01:07:28.480
But there's others out there that have had the same exact issues too.
925
01:07:29.341 --> 01:07:36.205
And you really have to do your diligence, you know, on this stuff and understand what's being used.
926
01:07:36.540 --> 01:07:42.962
So what do reputable regenerative medicine scientists wish that the less responsible end of this industry would just stop doing?
927
01:07:44.883 --> 01:07:51.965
Just producing, I would probably say just producing stuff with just producing stuff without characterizing it well.
928
01:07:52.625 --> 01:07:52.845
Yeah.
929
01:07:52.965 --> 01:07:53.545
That's one.
930
01:07:53.786 --> 01:07:58.027
Two, actually making sure that your system is...
931
01:07:58.889 --> 01:08:07.827
follows current good manufacturing practices, because a lot of these guys that say they have the facility, as soon as the FDA goes, pays them a visit there.
932
01:08:08.489 --> 01:08:09.932
Some of the mistakes are just like,
933
01:08:11.048 --> 01:08:11.348
Wow.
934
01:08:11.529 --> 01:08:12.710
I'm like blown away by them.
935
01:08:12.870 --> 01:08:15.833
And I've gone into facilities that tell me this is a GMP facility.
936
01:08:16.253 --> 01:08:19.537
And I just look at it and I'm like, number one is you don't have a quality system in place here.
937
01:08:20.017 --> 01:08:20.898
I mean, companies have quality.
938
01:08:20.918 --> 01:08:26.003
We have 16 quality regulatory people in this location here because of you have to.
939
01:08:26.023 --> 01:08:27.525
Yeah, we have document control specialists.
940
01:08:27.945 --> 01:08:29.287
We have regulatory specialists.
941
01:08:29.307 --> 01:08:29.527
We have
942
01:08:30.253 --> 01:08:34.415
you know, quality assurance, quality control, you know, these rooms have to be monitored.
943
01:08:34.455 --> 01:08:39.496
It's okay that you built, you know, we built a room to specs, but that doesn't matter.
944
01:08:39.556 --> 01:08:40.417
You can build the room.
945
01:08:40.557 --> 01:08:41.997
If you don't, you're not monitoring that room.
946
01:08:42.017 --> 01:08:46.699
If you're not maintaining the system the right way, you know, if you're not rooting
947
01:08:47.402 --> 01:08:57.534
particle counts, if you're not doing static dynamic reads, if the people that are going, I'm not even qualified to go into the rooms that we have here now because I haven't been tested in over two years to be able to go into these rooms now.
948
01:08:58.075 --> 01:09:00.178
And I get it.
949
01:09:00.198 --> 01:09:01.399
A lot of companies just can't afford it.
950
01:09:01.419 --> 01:09:04.563
The maintenance on these rooms that we have here are about $15,000 to $18,000 a month.
951
01:09:05.990 --> 01:09:06.510
Wow.
952
01:09:06.630 --> 01:09:07.511
They're expensive.
953
01:09:07.551 --> 01:09:08.891
It's just really expensive to do.
954
01:09:08.971 --> 01:09:14.053
And you got to have, you know, somebody willing to fund it if you're talking about doing research and you're going that route.
955
01:09:14.133 --> 01:09:14.654
And I get it.
956
01:09:15.174 --> 01:09:17.315
But unfortunately, there's a purpose behind it.
957
01:09:17.435 --> 01:09:20.156
And there's a reason behind it is to produce something that's safe.
958
01:09:21.076 --> 01:09:24.618
You know, produce something that's safe, produce something that you've tested regularly.
959
01:09:25.238 --> 01:09:25.338
And
960
01:09:26.400 --> 01:09:29.002
You know, show us that the product is what the product is.
961
01:09:29.022 --> 01:09:35.266
You know, the FDA requires, for instance, in self therapeutics is I show you how long the product is stable for after I thought it out.
962
01:09:35.847 --> 01:09:38.809
I show you that when I put it into an IV bag, how long does it last?
963
01:09:39.249 --> 01:09:39.889
That it's stable.
964
01:09:39.909 --> 01:09:45.013
That it has the same characteristics that I showed you when I thought it out and then before I made the product.
965
01:09:45.493 --> 01:09:49.496
Same exact thing in exosome based products, which I call all of them secret home.
966
01:09:50.056 --> 01:09:52.257
Nobody has a pure exosome product out there.
967
01:09:52.357 --> 01:09:52.918
They're all secret.
968
01:09:52.938 --> 01:09:53.678
They're all secret tones.
969
01:09:53.758 --> 01:09:57.059
They're all secret tones or conditioned media, depending on the way they make them.
970
01:09:57.420 --> 01:10:05.023
You know, the difference is the conditioned media is you're collecting all of it with the, which I think is crazy if you're growing it up in an animal based product, but some people are doing that.
971
01:10:05.103 --> 01:10:12.487
That's a conditioned media versus changing the media out and then putting it in a different type of a condition.
972
01:10:13.247 --> 01:10:19.029
And then having the cells secrete out based on what you're actually doing, changing the format of it.
973
01:10:19.450 --> 01:10:19.830
Exactly.
974
01:10:19.870 --> 01:10:22.551
Not just taking growth media and collecting, collecting as recyclable.
975
01:10:22.611 --> 01:10:23.551
So that's their difference.
976
01:10:24.111 --> 01:10:24.912
So there's difference.
977
01:10:25.172 --> 01:10:26.852
So you do not want conditioned media.
978
01:10:26.892 --> 01:10:33.435
You want someone who's taken the time to move the components they want or get rid of that piece of it.
979
01:10:34.175 --> 01:10:37.318
isolate the exosomes, the secret tone, well, the secret tone, really.
980
01:10:37.338 --> 01:10:38.359
The secret tone, correct.
981
01:10:38.379 --> 01:10:39.460
Yep, yeah, yeah.
982
01:10:39.540 --> 01:10:44.926
And do it the right way because that follows the guidelines of what you're supposed to be doing in the ideal situation.
983
01:10:44.986 --> 01:10:50.991
Unless you're taking these type of products like condition media, you can take it, then you can purify it much better with ultracentrifugation.
984
01:10:51.011 --> 01:10:52.353
You remove all those components to it.
985
01:10:52.873 --> 01:10:56.457
As long as you're testing, for instance, they make us test animal products, they make us test...
986
01:10:56.977 --> 01:10:58.698
What other organelles are there?
987
01:10:58.718 --> 01:11:04.501
They make you test, you know, for instance, we even test mitochondrial function, what's going on.
988
01:11:04.541 --> 01:11:12.386
There's a bunch of different testing parameters that you're supposed to be looking at, you know, as this pertains to, I mean, ultimately it's a drug.
989
01:11:12.586 --> 01:11:13.726
It's something that's going in.
990
01:11:13.746 --> 01:11:14.907
People are like, well, it's from me.
991
01:11:15.347 --> 01:11:17.468
It's not, well, no, not when I take it out of the body.
992
01:11:17.528 --> 01:11:19.790
If I modify it and I grow it up, I make different things.
993
01:11:19.830 --> 01:11:21.651
I'm adding in different things to it.
994
01:11:21.831 --> 01:11:22.811
It's so interesting.
995
01:11:22.831 --> 01:11:23.392
You bring that up.
996
01:11:24.072 --> 01:11:27.013
Yeah, but that's so interesting because so many people argue that, right?
997
01:11:27.053 --> 01:11:28.414
They're like, well, it's my stuff.
998
01:11:28.514 --> 01:11:29.935
How can it possibly be a drug?
999
01:11:29.995 --> 01:11:31.215
How can it be regulated?
1000
01:11:31.275 --> 01:11:32.176
It's my own stuff.
1001
01:11:32.656 --> 01:11:34.437
And you bring up some really interesting points.
1002
01:11:34.537 --> 01:11:37.078
I mean, it's, it's, um, Hmm.
1003
01:11:37.538 --> 01:11:37.698
Yeah.
1004
01:11:37.718 --> 01:11:39.139
As soon as you grow it up, modify it.
1005
01:11:39.159 --> 01:11:40.699
It's, it's, it's changed.
1006
01:11:41.200 --> 01:11:41.700
It's changed.
1007
01:11:42.220 --> 01:11:48.623
So do you think the hype around regenerative medicine has possibly slowed down legitimate regenerative medicine?
1008
01:11:50.299 --> 01:11:50.961
No, not really.
1009
01:11:50.981 --> 01:11:56.693
I mean, we've gained a significant amount of knowledge that ultimately we know that this is not a cell replacement strategy.
1010
01:11:56.773 --> 01:11:57.013
I mean...
1011
01:11:58.397 --> 01:12:03.299
Let's take a step back in that word because it's not a cell replacement strategy in the context of I'm not putting a cell in.
1012
01:12:03.439 --> 01:12:06.960
It's binding to an organ and then it's culture and it's and it's replacing cells there.
1013
01:12:07.080 --> 01:12:08.080
Making a new heart.
1014
01:12:08.120 --> 01:12:09.401
Yeah, yeah, correct.
1015
01:12:09.421 --> 01:12:10.421
Making a new heart.
1016
01:12:10.581 --> 01:12:21.585
It is a cell replacement strategy in the context of there's modulation that's transpiring and then it causes endogenous repair or endogenous formation of new cells that are formed.
1017
01:12:22.527 --> 01:12:25.649
So that's what, you know, what we need to look at.
1018
01:12:25.789 --> 01:12:27.269
It's causing endogenous repair.
1019
01:12:27.289 --> 01:12:28.270
There's no if and buts about it.
1020
01:12:28.370 --> 01:12:32.152
You know, if you look at in a cell therapy, you put a cell into the body, it goes into the lung.
1021
01:12:32.752 --> 01:12:33.833
The cells die eventually.
1022
01:12:33.853 --> 01:12:37.835
The secret home is released out, causes significant changes, including
1023
01:12:38.545 --> 01:12:41.007
The interesting thing about it is when those cells die, guess what?
1024
01:12:41.027 --> 01:12:43.710
Your immune system has to pick it up in the lung, which are macrophages.
1025
01:12:44.150 --> 01:12:55.160
The macrophage now basically picks that up and changes from what it normally does from just a killer activator eater to an anti-inflammatory M2 macrophage that releases more.
1026
01:12:55.640 --> 01:12:58.462
There's the endogenous repair because your own cells made that repair.
1027
01:12:58.703 --> 01:13:03.907
So when you're trying to repair heart tissue, this is the process you're describing here?
1028
01:13:04.247 --> 01:13:05.809
This is the process that we're describing, yep.
1029
01:13:06.322 --> 01:13:32.742
And so is it true that when you get an IV of the right stuff, right, that we're talking about, that is it true that it will be attracted to, because of cell signaling from the damaged tissue, it'll be, those cells will be, or that, I don't even know what to call it anymore, that will be attracted to the area of damage and then do its thing.
1030
01:13:33.423 --> 01:13:34.523
Yes, 100%.
1031
01:13:35.003 --> 01:13:43.006
Cells have the capacity, if they're the right cells, to smash, extrovate, which I can show you animal studies and stuff we've done, that you can see it.
1032
01:13:43.426 --> 01:13:47.287
Unfortunately, the vast majority of it does reside in the lung and will be wiped out.
1033
01:13:47.407 --> 01:13:52.248
But cells still do reach the brain, the heart, the gonads.
1034
01:13:52.308 --> 01:13:53.208
It's the way they travel.
1035
01:13:54.209 --> 01:13:55.569
They still reach those areas.
1036
01:13:55.689 --> 01:13:58.550
And secondarily, you have the effect of that secret tone.
1037
01:13:59.483 --> 01:14:01.565
that does what it's supposed to do.
1038
01:14:01.825 --> 01:14:05.788
And depending on where it went into, it's gotta modify exactly what you said.
1039
01:14:05.808 --> 01:14:08.811
There's, you know, our bodies work on, it's simple.
1040
01:14:08.891 --> 01:14:16.457
It's, I mean, in science, it's, you know, ligand receptor system, but in lay terms, it's a key and a lock is what it actually is.
1041
01:14:17.117 --> 01:14:26.685
Yeah, you have a signal distress and it's gotta have the right, you know, the receptor, the lock has to have the right key to be able to bind to it and then activate what a cell does.
1042
01:14:27.365 --> 01:14:27.625
Okay.
1043
01:14:29.026 --> 01:14:36.032
I want to talk a little bit about the increasing numbers of longevity patients that are traveling internationally for regenerative procedures.
1044
01:14:36.873 --> 01:14:47.842
Do you think that's mainly because they're accessing legitimate innovation earlier or because they're accessing interventions before the evidence actually exists, or is it a combination of the two depending on the company?
1045
01:14:48.642 --> 01:14:55.068
It's a combination of both depending on the company, depending on the technology.
1046
01:14:55.088 --> 01:14:55.328
Yeah.
1047
01:14:56.209 --> 01:14:57.151
depending on what they're seeing.
1048
01:14:57.772 --> 01:15:06.446
So if somebody is going for a treatment outside the US that isn't available in the US, how should someone distinguish regulatory lag from scientific caution?
1049
01:15:06.586 --> 01:15:08.530
Like what are the questions they should be asking?
1050
01:15:10.142 --> 01:15:16.887
Number one is the amount of scientific background is number one on that particular product.
1051
01:15:17.507 --> 01:15:21.810
Number two is, is there been a lot of vigor as far as wherever you're going?
1052
01:15:21.990 --> 01:15:23.071
Is it an audited place?
1053
01:15:23.691 --> 01:15:26.233
You know, for instance, we work with a team that's in Mexico.
1054
01:15:26.253 --> 01:15:28.774
I told you these guys even work with UCLA.
1055
01:15:28.814 --> 01:15:31.756
They work with Baylor-based technology, other different type of technology.
1056
01:15:32.236 --> 01:15:34.038
Has it been vetted by outside parties?
1057
01:15:34.358 --> 01:15:35.839
You know, is there a quality system?
1058
01:15:35.899 --> 01:15:37.480
Is there truly a quality system in place?
1059
01:15:37.500 --> 01:15:37.800
Yeah.
1060
01:15:38.300 --> 01:15:44.462
in whatever is being made to safeguard you against problems, which is what's transpired before.
1061
01:15:44.522 --> 01:15:48.263
There's individuals that have gone and gotten injections and their life has been destroyed.
1062
01:15:48.283 --> 01:15:50.504
There's a few of them in this industry.
1063
01:15:50.524 --> 01:15:54.565
I mean, they've recovered, but one of them still limps around, I think.
1064
01:15:55.145 --> 01:15:56.206
Yeah, 100% right.
1065
01:15:56.266 --> 01:15:56.446
Yep.
1066
01:15:56.886 --> 01:15:57.246
One of them.
1067
01:15:57.266 --> 01:15:57.447
Yep.
1068
01:15:57.647 --> 01:15:58.927
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1069
01:15:59.248 --> 01:16:00.468
Yeah, we both know that individual.
1070
01:16:00.528 --> 01:16:02.310
But anyway, yeah, yeah.
1071
01:16:02.430 --> 01:16:03.851
We're not outing anybody.
1072
01:16:03.971 --> 01:16:05.371
We're not doing it.
1073
01:16:05.411 --> 01:16:06.132
Yeah, yeah.
1074
01:16:06.172 --> 01:16:08.053
But anyway, it's unfortunate.
1075
01:16:10.553 --> 01:16:20.957
You know, understanding what goes on, you know, over there, people are still, it's funny because, you know, we know that there's approvals in different states of different types of stem cells, but some of the stuff is also problematic.
1076
01:16:20.997 --> 01:16:24.578
I've heard of people getting messed up in the U.S. too with this kind of stuff.
1077
01:16:25.398 --> 01:16:30.500
And people are still going, yeah, people are still going outside the United States, even with stem cells.
1078
01:16:30.680 --> 01:16:52.327
the you know the possibilities of getting um you know this kind of stuff and then the other thing is that now there's what i've been seeing i'm like blown away by there's a race to the bottom you know on pricing guys if you're paying bare peanuts with some of this stuff dude you're not you're not shopping bargain basement on this stuff you you do not correct you do not and i talk about you know
1079
01:16:53.027 --> 01:16:56.509
The production of cells, the testing and all that stuff is it's expensive.
1080
01:16:56.569 --> 01:16:59.930
People don't understand the expense behind it, the production on it.
1081
01:17:00.170 --> 01:17:04.632
This is why, you know, some of these places are a lot more expensive, you know, than other places.
1082
01:17:04.712 --> 01:17:07.353
But people are still going outside to get these therapies done.
1083
01:17:07.888 --> 01:17:08.148
Yeah.
1084
01:17:09.049 --> 01:17:17.014
So do you think there's countries or specific regulatory systems that are doing advanced cell, handling advanced cell therapies particularly well?
1085
01:17:17.654 --> 01:17:20.756
Or do you think, again, it just depends on the individual clinic?
1086
01:17:20.776 --> 01:17:22.637
Like there's the good and the bad in all of them.
1087
01:17:23.758 --> 01:17:27.400
Well, you know, a lot of people go, for instance, close by to us is Mexico, go to Mexico.
1088
01:17:27.720 --> 01:17:28.981
Mexico's cracking down hard.
1089
01:17:29.001 --> 01:17:31.362
Gofepris is going to start cracking down hard because they've had problems.
1090
01:17:31.542 --> 01:17:33.864
And we've had discussions with them about it.
1091
01:17:34.905 --> 01:17:36.065
They are cracking down hard.
1092
01:17:36.206 --> 01:17:45.448
You have individuals that are really smart that are developing platforms in the UAE that have done a phenomenal job with trying to bring this forward a smart way.
1093
01:17:46.068 --> 01:17:59.172
You have countries such as Japan that have a regenerative act that basically allows you to use specific things to move a lot quicker to do it as long as all of them are abiding by as long as there is a safety profile in Canada.
1094
01:17:59.252 --> 01:18:00.333
place.
1095
01:18:00.413 --> 01:18:02.173
And that's the key to all of this.
1096
01:18:02.213 --> 01:18:04.635
You know, do a phase one clinical study.
1097
01:18:05.075 --> 01:18:06.956
You don't need to run 40 patients through this.
1098
01:18:06.976 --> 01:18:16.861
You do, you know, 10, 15, 20 patients show a safety profile on what you're doing, show what's in the product, prove that it's safe, at least in a small cohort of patients.
1099
01:18:17.101 --> 01:18:23.444
And then there's no reason why there shouldn't be some kind of a waiver or an informed consent that a patient can sign that says,
1100
01:18:24.246 --> 01:18:31.728
minimum, this is safe, maximum, here's the possible risk, and here's the possible benefit, which is what you're supposed to do in informed consent anyway.
1101
01:18:32.328 --> 01:18:32.569
Yeah.
1102
01:18:33.829 --> 01:18:34.109
All right.
1103
01:18:34.289 --> 01:18:43.192
So you sit in this unusual position because you're both deeply enthusiastic about the science and close enough to it to know its limitations, as we've been discussing now for a while.
1104
01:18:43.672 --> 01:18:47.413
So what regenerative treatment are you the most skeptical about right now?
1105
01:18:49.633 --> 01:18:50.314
That is out there?
1106
01:18:50.774 --> 01:18:52.695
Yeah, that's available.
1107
01:18:52.835 --> 01:18:53.676
In cell therapies?
1108
01:18:53.756 --> 01:18:55.517
Yeah, in cell therapies.
1109
01:18:56.017 --> 01:18:56.898
In cell therapies?
1110
01:18:59.700 --> 01:19:02.562
The exosome field has a lot of developing to do still.
1111
01:19:02.962 --> 01:19:10.827
I'm very skeptical there because everybody that's gone wild, wild west, as soon as they learned that these cells are signaler, why should we use cells?
1112
01:19:11.428 --> 01:19:13.489
Let's just capture the factors of it and that's it.
1113
01:19:13.549 --> 01:19:17.372
And the reason why they're capturing the factors of it is because it's exponentially cheaper.
1114
01:19:19.177 --> 01:19:27.319
My cost for the production of a secretone versus my cost of production of a stem cell is about $1.80 the price.
1115
01:19:28.839 --> 01:19:31.679
And yeah, the cell therapy is being eight times more expensive.
1116
01:19:32.440 --> 01:19:33.920
The stem cell therapy, you mean?
1117
01:19:33.960 --> 01:19:36.720
The stem cell therapy being eight times more expensive for production.
1118
01:19:36.740 --> 01:19:42.902
So in the stem cell therapy, is it just stem cells or are you having stem cells floating within the secretone?
1119
01:19:44.322 --> 01:19:45.062
It's just the cells.
1120
01:19:46.737 --> 01:19:51.640
It's all we use is just the cells in our cell therapies in in clinical studies that we have.
1121
01:19:51.800 --> 01:19:52.520
It's just a cell.
1122
01:19:53.281 --> 01:19:55.422
It's a cell that's basically purified.
1123
01:19:55.642 --> 01:19:56.342
It's frozen.
1124
01:19:56.762 --> 01:19:57.643
Then it's thawed.
1125
01:19:57.883 --> 01:19:58.803
Then it's infused in.
1126
01:19:59.444 --> 01:20:06.067
And then because isn't the narrative that you need the secretum, you need the exosomes, you need all those other extra things.
1127
01:20:07.695 --> 01:20:12.737
So remember the cells, once they go into the body, the cells are then going to start, they secrete out.
1128
01:20:12.977 --> 01:20:13.398
Right.
1129
01:20:13.718 --> 01:20:20.621
And they're going to secrete out way more than you can think of if I put into a vial exosomes or secret home and deliver it to somebody.
1130
01:20:20.881 --> 01:20:24.002
Because they're going to just continue to secrete this stuff out until they die.
1131
01:20:24.592 --> 01:20:25.533
Right, right.
1132
01:20:25.693 --> 01:20:42.614
So therein is the whole thing about where you're getting your stem cells from, how viable they are, how they thaw, how they survive the IV journey, let's say, and how they're able to get to where they need to go so that when they start secreting all their stuff,
1133
01:20:43.315 --> 01:20:44.776
They're in the right place doing it.
1134
01:20:44.796 --> 01:20:45.156
I see.
1135
01:20:45.197 --> 01:20:45.697
Okay.
1136
01:20:45.717 --> 01:20:46.257
Sorry, guys.
1137
01:20:46.317 --> 01:20:48.299
I've just had my own little personal aha moment.
1138
01:20:48.459 --> 01:20:52.542
I had the pieces, but I'm like... No, no, but you actually...
1139
01:20:52.842 --> 01:20:58.626
But no, you put it together and it's clearly explanatory so people can understand that that's the approach.
1140
01:20:58.686 --> 01:21:03.349
Versus if you take an access home or secret home, it's a defined product already.
1141
01:21:03.590 --> 01:21:06.512
It has what it has in it already and that's it.
1142
01:21:07.012 --> 01:21:09.294
Simple analogy I use a lot of times is...
1143
01:21:10.661 --> 01:21:11.041
a headache.
1144
01:21:11.942 --> 01:21:15.404
Some people, a headache can be cured with a Tylenol or an ibuprofen.
1145
01:21:15.445 --> 01:21:16.705
It just depends on the individual.
1146
01:21:17.186 --> 01:21:24.611
So think of the secret home as the possibility of that being, because it's predefined as a Tylenol, it's a Tylenol.
1147
01:21:25.111 --> 01:21:30.715
But when you put a cell in there, the cell has the capacity to basically, what's going on in my environment?
1148
01:21:31.276 --> 01:21:35.039
What do I need to produce to change the issue that's here?
1149
01:21:35.539 --> 01:21:37.440
Because I want to survive and I want to heal.
1150
01:21:38.181 --> 01:21:39.622
So it's sort of like that
1151
01:21:40.755 --> 01:21:45.298
Exosome on steroids or whatever you want to call it or modifiable exosome.
1152
01:21:45.398 --> 01:21:45.598
Yeah.
1153
01:21:45.798 --> 01:21:45.998
Yeah.
1154
01:21:46.419 --> 01:21:46.679
Okay.
1155
01:21:46.999 --> 01:21:47.279
All right.
1156
01:21:47.479 --> 01:21:47.779
Last.
1157
01:21:48.020 --> 01:21:51.762
So I have quick fire game and we're done.
1158
01:21:52.742 --> 01:21:54.003
Hype, hope, or here now.
1159
01:21:54.243 --> 01:21:55.844
Stem cells for general longevity.
1160
01:21:58.626 --> 01:21:59.987
Like as a longevity treatment.
1161
01:22:01.408 --> 01:22:01.668
Hope.
1162
01:22:02.949 --> 01:22:03.429
Exosome.
1163
01:22:03.449 --> 01:22:04.750
I'm not going to say hype, but I'm going to say hope.
1164
01:22:05.208 --> 01:22:07.728
Okay, so there's still a lot of hope.
1165
01:22:07.748 --> 01:22:09.649
The story needs to be written, let's say.
1166
01:22:10.149 --> 01:22:12.089
Exosomes for systemic rejuvenation?
1167
01:22:14.310 --> 01:22:15.210
Hype, I'd say right now.
1168
01:22:15.690 --> 01:22:17.350
Okay, so that's those exosome IVs.
1169
01:22:17.830 --> 01:22:21.271
Exosomes for skin and hair?
1170
01:22:21.671 --> 01:22:27.052
Tremendous amount of promise and yes, 100% on, yeah.
1171
01:22:27.532 --> 01:22:32.893
We're getting a lot closer because you'll see the results with a lot of people, yeah.
1172
01:22:33.755 --> 01:22:34.115
Beautiful.
1173
01:22:34.535 --> 01:22:35.116
Senolytics.
1174
01:22:37.717 --> 01:22:37.978
Hype.
1175
01:22:39.098 --> 01:22:40.859
And the reason why hype, yeah.
1176
01:22:40.979 --> 01:22:46.803
I mean, hype because of the simple fact is what you have to consider is there's senescence in everywhere.
1177
01:22:46.843 --> 01:22:47.843
It's a senescence in your skin.
1178
01:22:47.863 --> 01:22:48.744
There's senescence in your gut.
1179
01:22:48.764 --> 01:22:49.905
There's senescence in the immune system.
1180
01:22:49.925 --> 01:22:52.066
When a pill goes into your gut, it's destroyed in the gut.
1181
01:22:52.426 --> 01:22:53.707
What are we taking care of?
1182
01:22:53.727 --> 01:22:55.148
So a little bit on the hype side.
1183
01:22:55.968 --> 01:22:56.349
Okay.
1184
01:22:56.369 --> 01:22:56.569
There.
1185
01:22:57.389 --> 01:23:00.211
Natural killer cell therapy for immunosenescence.
1186
01:23:01.592 --> 01:23:01.792
Hope.
1187
01:23:02.665 --> 01:23:04.466
You know, we're actually going into a clinical study.
1188
01:23:04.526 --> 01:23:05.646
That's where you're going, yeah.
1189
01:23:06.266 --> 01:23:08.968
Autologous stem cells.
1190
01:23:09.048 --> 01:23:09.268
Hope.
1191
01:23:10.428 --> 01:23:12.469
Umbilical cord derived cells, yep.
1192
01:23:12.869 --> 01:23:19.072
I would say significant amount of progress and a lot of, we have a lot of clinical evidence.
1193
01:23:19.632 --> 01:23:19.972
Beautiful.
1194
01:23:19.992 --> 01:23:20.692
That this works well.
1195
01:23:21.213 --> 01:23:22.933
Personalized immune profiling.
1196
01:23:24.234 --> 01:23:24.554
What's that?
1197
01:23:25.194 --> 01:23:26.955
Personalized immune profiling.
1198
01:23:28.736 --> 01:23:35.401
Um, I would say very, very promising and very, very important.
1199
01:23:36.202 --> 01:23:36.422
Yeah.
1200
01:23:36.562 --> 01:23:38.043
Well, when we talk about diagnostics.
1201
01:23:38.384 --> 01:23:38.764
Yeah.
1202
01:23:38.824 --> 01:23:39.084
For sure.
1203
01:23:39.144 --> 01:23:39.785
Very important.
1204
01:23:40.305 --> 01:23:41.446
Organ regeneration.
1205
01:23:43.928 --> 01:23:45.309
I would say hype at this juncture.
1206
01:23:45.729 --> 01:23:46.209
At this point.
1207
01:23:46.230 --> 01:23:47.330
It's too, too, too soon.
1208
01:23:47.350 --> 01:23:48.171
Yeah, it's too early.
1209
01:23:48.611 --> 01:23:50.112
Stem cell derived secretomes?
1210
01:23:51.754 --> 01:23:52.114
Uh, hope.
1211
01:23:52.394 --> 01:23:52.915
A lot of hope.
1212
01:23:53.295 --> 01:23:53.515
Yeah.
1213
01:23:53.955 --> 01:23:55.897
Lab grown replacement tissues.
1214
01:23:56.417 --> 01:23:57.198
That's another one.
1215
01:23:58.095 --> 01:23:58.795
A lot of hope.
1216
01:23:58.815 --> 01:24:00.657
There's a lot of companies progressing with that.
1217
01:24:00.737 --> 01:24:00.937
Yes.
1218
01:24:01.417 --> 01:24:01.777
Beautiful.
1219
01:24:02.217 --> 01:24:04.159
Reversing immune age by 20 years.
1220
01:24:06.120 --> 01:24:06.340
Hope.
1221
01:24:07.280 --> 01:24:07.981
Significant hope.
1222
01:24:08.561 --> 01:24:08.941
Beautiful.
1223
01:24:09.121 --> 01:24:11.343
Living to 120 with regenerative medicine.
1224
01:24:11.383 --> 01:24:11.763
Last one.
1225
01:24:13.353 --> 01:24:14.474
Hope and promise.
1226
01:24:14.974 --> 01:24:15.454
And promise.
1227
01:24:16.115 --> 01:24:16.975
Yeah.
1228
01:24:17.035 --> 01:24:18.476
Dr. Gonzalez, this has been amazing.
1229
01:24:18.516 --> 01:24:20.877
I know I kept you a little over your heart.
1230
01:24:20.897 --> 01:24:21.838
No worries.
1231
01:24:21.898 --> 01:24:23.158
So I appreciate your time.
1232
01:24:23.458 --> 01:24:30.242
Why don't we tell people where to find you, where to learn more about your work in terms of what's available, what's coming down the pipes, all the things.
1233
01:24:30.682 --> 01:24:31.102
Yep.
1234
01:24:31.142 --> 01:24:35.304
Restem.com, R-E-S-T-E-M.com is our U.S.-based entity.
1235
01:24:35.344 --> 01:24:39.627
The people that we work with outside is ReHealth, R-E-H-E-A-L-T-H.com.
1236
01:24:40.745 --> 01:24:44.147
And then also my Instagram page, DrGonzalezPhD.
1237
01:24:44.848 --> 01:24:45.228
Beautiful.
1238
01:24:45.268 --> 01:24:45.788
On Instagram.
1239
01:24:45.888 --> 01:24:46.068
Yep.
1240
01:24:46.589 --> 01:24:47.149
Thank you again.
1241
01:24:47.389 --> 01:24:49.350
This has been an interesting conversation.
1242
01:24:49.550 --> 01:24:49.971
Thank you.
1243
01:24:50.011 --> 01:24:50.611
Yeah, awesome.
1244
01:24:50.671 --> 01:24:51.632
I thank you for your time.
1245
01:24:52.212 --> 01:24:52.592
Hey, folks.
1246
01:24:52.772 --> 01:24:59.637
Just a quick reminder that all of the information presented in this podcast is for information purposes only.
1247
01:25:00.177 --> 01:25:04.039
No medical advice, no diagnosing, no treatments suggested here.
1248
01:25:04.300 --> 01:25:09.763
Before you try anything that you hear about or learn about here, make sure that you check with your medical provider.