Off-the-Cuff: AI Nonsense & More!

WEBVTT
00:00:04.197 --> 00:00:11.606
Hello and welcome to Learn Make Learn where we share qualitative and quantitative perspectives on products to help you make better.
00:00:12.176 --> 00:00:16.077
My name is Ernest Kim and I'm joined by my friend and co-host, Joachim Groeger.
00:00:16.597 --> 00:00:17.542
Hey Joachim, how's it going?
00:00:18.782 --> 00:00:19.952
I am doing well.
00:00:20.012 --> 00:00:22.532
I'm happy because we are breaking the seal.
00:00:23.192 --> 00:00:24.812
2025.
00:00:24.841 --> 00:00:25.352
This is it.
00:00:25.532 --> 00:00:26.071
We've done it.
00:00:26.312 --> 00:00:28.292
We're in 2025 and we're recording.
00:00:28.472 --> 00:00:36.512
This is thE first step for Lmic learn to be in the next year, which means we've been, we will can say, officially, we've been going for two years.
00:00:36.512 --> 00:00:45.661
We can round up, but I'm very happy that we're here and I'm happy that we're here with an off the cuff because I feel like that's the easiest way to break the seal.
00:00:46.051 --> 00:00:46.591
How are you?
00:00:47.411 --> 00:00:48.042
Good, thanks.
00:00:48.042 --> 00:00:48.371
Yeah.
00:00:48.762 --> 00:00:48.972
Yeah.
00:00:48.972 --> 00:00:54.076
Also excited to, uh, kind of get back into our recording and, you know, as.
00:00:54.896 --> 00:00:58.527
JohE just mentioned, uh, we have had a bit of a winter hiatus.
00:00:58.527 --> 00:01:10.826
I guess maybe you could call it a winter holiday, uh, but this, this is episode 26 and today, um, like Jo JohE mentioned, we're bringing you another of our shorter format off the cuff episodes.
00:01:11.486 --> 00:01:15.746
Where we highlight and discuss a handful of products or ideas that have caught our attention.
00:01:16.287 --> 00:01:24.566
And I just wanted to note that we will absolutely continue to bring you longer format, in depth conversations and interviews hopefully in the near future.
00:01:25.106 --> 00:01:33.206
But, um, and off the cuff episode seemed like the best way to just kind of ease our way back into the saddle after our, uh, extended winter break.
00:01:33.656 --> 00:01:36.177
Um, also wanted to mention that as ever.
00:01:36.777 --> 00:01:43.617
We want to hear from you, so please share any thoughts, questions, or topic suggestions, suggestions, sorry.
00:01:43.617 --> 00:01:51.837
With us at Learn make learn@gmail.com or on thread at Learn make, learn show, all one word.
00:01:52.766 --> 00:01:58.346
Alright, with that intro out of the way, let's move on to our off the cuff conversation.
00:01:58.856 --> 00:02:00.417
Jo, you wanna get us started?
00:02:01.701 --> 00:02:04.591
Yeah, we, um, you know what?
00:02:05.311 --> 00:02:06.962
I'm gonna try and be really rapid.
00:02:07.471 --> 00:02:10.831
Super efficient and then we'll see which ones like pique your interest Ernest.
00:02:10.831 --> 00:02:12.961
And maybe we'll dig a little to you because I have a few here.
00:02:12.961 --> 00:02:14.822
So, I'm trying to figure out.
00:02:15.692 --> 00:02:27.481
As well in the things I'm gonna talk about, connections to things we've talked about in the past, in previous episodes, and because things have happened that have made me think, oh, we actually did cover this in a previous episode on passing.
00:02:27.842 --> 00:02:35.222
So it'd be nice to see the connection to where we are because it's been a while, again, three months, and then it's been more to those early episodes.
00:02:35.271 --> 00:02:39.711
So we talked about humane ai uh, in a previous episode.
00:02:39.801 --> 00:02:48.141
So they recently announced last month that they would be shutting down and all of their Humane AI pins will be bricked.
00:02:48.201 --> 00:02:55.641
So if you recall, humane AI pin is the little device that you could clipped to your clothes, and it would use LLMs and.
00:02:56.046 --> 00:02:56.556
Blah blah.
00:02:56.556 --> 00:02:59.076
And magic and fairy dust to make things happen.
00:02:59.076 --> 00:03:00.097
And it would be amazing.
00:03:00.097 --> 00:03:02.287
And the thing that didn't work, it had terrible battery life.
00:03:02.646 --> 00:03:07.176
I mean, these are ex apple people that should have known better and just bombed.
00:03:07.806 --> 00:03:11.887
And then they tried to sell the company and it's done.
00:03:11.887 --> 00:03:13.956
So they're gonna shut, shut down.
00:03:14.526 --> 00:03:21.127
And all of their pins that cost about$700 are just gonna cease to function.
00:03:21.157 --> 00:03:22.026
And these units are.
00:03:22.417 --> 00:03:26.467
Pretty much useless without the server infrastructure that sits in the cloud.
00:03:27.067 --> 00:03:35.646
And so that's kind of a really dumb end to something that was, you know, hyped up as this incredible, the future of everything.
00:03:36.336 --> 00:03:41.377
Um, and so connected to that, um, I stumbled on a.
00:03:42.231 --> 00:03:48.111
Review for a new wearable that reminds me a lot of the humane AI pin, and it's called the B.
00:03:48.651 --> 00:03:49.762
Um, it's very new.
00:03:49.762 --> 00:04:01.882
It looks like a Fitbit and it has its whole., twist on all of these LLM things and AI nonsense is that it records everything that you say and it's gonna create these summaries of what's happened during your day.
00:04:01.882 --> 00:04:06.622
So if you're in a meeting, it's gonna listen to every word that's happening and it's gonna summarize stuff.
00:04:06.981 --> 00:04:13.072
And it's pretty, I mean, number one, very creepy, very worrying from an information security perspective, privacy perspective.
00:04:13.072 --> 00:04:18.831
I mean, the people that you're interacting with are gonna be saying sensitive pieces of information to you, but it turns out.
00:04:19.427 --> 00:04:23.146
The Verge Review has revealed that it is terrible at doing this.
00:04:23.206 --> 00:04:41.276
So, um, he, the reviewer wears this device and, um, he recounts that he was in a few Zoom meetings, chatted with a coworker at the office, met up with a friend for dinner and committed home, and then he looked at the transcript and the B.
00:04:42.346 --> 00:04:49.637
App told him that number one quote, you are having a conversation with someone about a patient of yours who lives in Louisiana.
00:04:50.387 --> 00:04:52.877
patient appears to be causing harm to another person.
00:04:53.416 --> 00:04:54.646
No doctor's offices, nothing.
00:04:54.646 --> 00:04:56.057
This is a Verge tech writer.
00:04:56.117 --> 00:04:56.387
Okay?
00:04:56.867 --> 00:04:58.127
And the second summary was.
00:04:58.351 --> 00:05:02.072
Victoria and her friend were driving reminiscing about childhood memories.
00:05:02.072 --> 00:05:08.252
They talked about a place called PT and Malcolm Buttons, which seemed to be familiar locations or references from their past.
00:05:08.552 --> 00:05:12.721
There was a rocky sound at some point, perhaps indicating a bumpy road or an issue with the car.
00:05:13.742 --> 00:05:17.192
This was all completely, I mean, there.
00:05:17.656 --> 00:05:18.797
Elements that are true.
00:05:18.857 --> 00:05:24.137
Like he was driving and he took the train, so there was a bump, but my goodness, like how bad is this?
00:05:24.226 --> 00:05:32.596
So it's incredible to see that we in, you know, last month Humane AI shuts down shamefully and bricks, all of its divides shamefully.
00:05:33.047 --> 00:05:34.396
And here we've got the next round.
00:05:34.396 --> 00:05:35.177
Everyone's ready.
00:05:35.507 --> 00:05:37.036
Be wearables, we're gonna listen to everything.
00:05:37.036 --> 00:05:39.737
You can transcribe it in cloud and LLM magic and blah, blah, blah.
00:05:40.276 --> 00:05:42.437
So have we learned any lessons?
00:05:42.437 --> 00:05:42.797
I don't know.
00:05:42.797 --> 00:05:43.336
Maybe that's.
00:05:43.862 --> 00:05:47.882
the first thing is can we please just learn the lessons of the past?
00:05:48.872 --> 00:05:51.331
Um, and so yeah, that was a quick thing on that.
00:05:51.331 --> 00:05:54.661
And then just another bit that we talked about still related to LLMs.
00:05:54.661 --> 00:05:57.601
And I'll pass off to you Ernest, and you can throw in some stuff into the mix.
00:05:57.601 --> 00:06:01.841
But, this is the year of efficiency and large language models.
00:06:01.841 --> 00:06:18.586
So this is now the big thing everyone's talking about, because DeepSeek, the Tiny Chinese outfit, basically spent a little bit of time tweaking these LLMs and got them to run on less powerful hardware, less memory, more efficient, and all of those things.
00:06:19.067 --> 00:06:20.807
Um, and it's unsurprising.
00:06:20.807 --> 00:06:21.887
It's unsurprising because I.
00:06:23.041 --> 00:06:30.201
I dunno, it feels like the early days of the American automobile industry competing against the Japanese where they just had bigger and bigger cars and bigger and bigger engines.
00:06:30.201 --> 00:06:35.451
And then the Japanese come along and say like, actually you just need this small engine and this car, and people will love it post oil crisis.
00:06:35.502 --> 00:06:46.872
So that, uh, deep seek revelation was pretty to me unsurprising because we had mentioned in the previous episode about using very, very, um, simple techniques to get.
00:06:47.291 --> 00:06:48.221
Powerful performance.
00:06:48.221 --> 00:06:52.151
And one of those things was using compression for text classification and also image classification.
00:06:52.151 --> 00:06:56.401
So when I heard the deep seek news, I was thinking, look, people know this.
00:06:56.461 --> 00:07:03.391
We just need to go back to the roots of being a little bit more frugal and mindful about how we build things and think about those efficiencies.
00:07:03.442 --> 00:07:15.262
They just did the work, they did the basic stuff that everyone should be doing instead of burning billions and billions of dollars as OpenAI has been doing, um, and continues to do and suggests that we need nuclear power plants.
00:07:15.802 --> 00:07:19.192
This small team of like five people just said, actually, if you just code well.
00:07:20.497 --> 00:07:21.456
don't need all this stuff.
00:07:21.637 --> 00:07:28.057
So those two things together are like a little tidbit that I've been, uh, like I wanted to share.
00:07:28.057 --> 00:07:31.987
And we'll have links to all these stories again and links to the previous episodes where we talked about that stuff.
00:07:31.987 --> 00:07:32.887
But yeah.
00:07:32.976 --> 00:07:34.687
Have you been following all of this?
00:07:34.776 --> 00:07:35.617
LLM?
00:07:36.007 --> 00:07:38.706
Uh, well, I don't, I don't wanna call it hype.
00:07:38.706 --> 00:07:41.016
It's also like it doesn't feel right, just noise.
00:07:41.401 --> 00:07:42.002
Yeah.
00:07:42.031 --> 00:07:43.112
Yeah, definitely.
00:07:43.151 --> 00:07:45.882
I certainly am not an expert in the area, but I.
00:07:46.797 --> 00:08:07.947
When the story came out about Deep Cica, it definitely reminded me of your comment from that, uh, our prior episode where you talked about the fact that, um, there are so much, there are far more efficient ways to achieve these things that are being done with, um, just, it seems like the least efficient tools, uh, means possible, uh, by most American companies.
00:08:07.947 --> 00:08:14.966
So, um, it was, uh, exciting to see that, uh, I, I mean, I think.
00:08:15.567 --> 00:08:16.797
It's a great wake up call.
00:08:16.797 --> 00:08:19.586
I, I think a lot of people were, um, shocked by it.
00:08:20.187 --> 00:08:25.466
Uh, and so hopefully we'll see things, um, change for the better.
00:08:25.466 --> 00:08:38.986
Just because, you know, when you realize you don't have to actually spend all this money, not just on the equipment, but on the electricity as well, um, and get as good results, I think that's gonna open a lot of people's eyes.
00:08:40.461 --> 00:08:40.522
Yeah.
00:08:40.836 --> 00:08:41.287
For sure.
00:08:42.076 --> 00:08:43.397
And then the humane thing as well.
00:08:43.397 --> 00:08:54.706
I mean, it, it is another point that you've made, um, across a few episodes, just this, I forget the term you used, but, um, it wasn't fragility, but just this dependence on.
00:08:55.922 --> 00:09:03.361
Extended infrastructure beyond the physical product that, um, does make your product so fragile.
00:09:03.961 --> 00:09:08.522
Um, you know, we see it with Humane, but we also saw it with, um, the other one.
00:09:09.692 --> 00:09:10.381
Uh, which one
00:09:10.476 --> 00:09:11.287
Rabbit R
00:09:11.552 --> 00:09:11.971
Yeah.
00:09:11.971 --> 00:09:12.361
Rabbit.
00:09:12.361 --> 00:09:17.131
Yeah, same idea, but where we really, the hardware is just the front end to.
00:09:17.881 --> 00:09:19.532
Stuff that's happening in the cloud.
00:09:19.532 --> 00:09:25.682
And once uh, the company starts to get, um, fallen hard times, then all that can go away.
00:09:25.682 --> 00:09:29.312
And you, that hardware you feel like you paid for, it just becomes a brick.
00:09:29.312 --> 00:09:34.201
So, um, kind of seeing chickens come home to roost, I guess, you know,
00:09:34.971 --> 00:09:39.111
Yeah, maybe that's my secret theme actually, is like, look at the stuff that we were talking about.
00:09:39.172 --> 00:09:39.647
We were right.
00:09:41.365 --> 00:09:41.544
oh.
00:09:41.544 --> 00:09:43.705
If you want to trade off, then I guess I could.
00:09:43.846 --> 00:09:44.297
Jump in.
00:09:44.297 --> 00:10:00.557
There were a co couple of things I thought I'd highlight, but under the theme of, I don't know what the right way to explain this would be, but just my, uh, I've, I feel like we, we are in this time now where.
00:10:00.841 --> 00:10:06.902
Product reviews have become really, really important because we're inundated by products.
00:10:07.381 --> 00:10:13.142
So, you know, not a surprise, people are turning to reviews to help them make better buying decisions.
00:10:13.562 --> 00:10:27.961
But I think what that's led to is this sort of a review industrial complex, just this, um, army of people, particularly on social media, who are make now making a living, reviewing products across all different categories and.
00:10:29.881 --> 00:10:43.831
The concern I have, the thing that I'm seeing that I'm really disappointed by is that because now for so many of these people, this is a career they've resorted to just sort of review by spec sheet.
00:10:44.774 --> 00:10:47.549
I, recently was looking at some reviews for cars.
00:10:48.299 --> 00:10:51.960
And also saw a review for camera that I'll talk about more in just a minute.
00:10:51.960 --> 00:11:03.570
But the overriding sentiment I heard across both of those was depressingly similar, and it really boiled down to this product should have the same exact features as every other product in its segment or category.
00:11:03.570 --> 00:11:05.230
You know,, here are these kind of.
00:11:05.534 --> 00:11:05.565
Okay.
00:11:06.134 --> 00:11:11.865
Generic specifications that I as a reviewer have come to expect from every product in this category.
00:11:11.924 --> 00:11:19.784
And if this new product doesn't deliver on, doesn't check off on all those boxes, then that just makes it very easy for me to say this is not a good product.
00:11:20.496 --> 00:11:28.756
because when, as a reviewer, your primary objective is just to turn out as much content as possible so that you can maximize your ad inventory and ad revenue.
00:11:29.381 --> 00:11:39.522
I think this is just naturally the outcome, this review by spec sheet approach because you just don't have the time to actually use and experience the products, and I think that.
00:11:39.581 --> 00:11:56.562
The thing that's disappointed me is that alright, that's the case in this sort of new media, but this has been something that's been happening in, you know, maybe so-called old media as well as they've been subjected to these similar sorts of pressures of just sort of, um, tracking clicks.
00:11:56.981 --> 00:12:00.312
And one example that's close to home for me is, um.
00:12:00.701 --> 00:12:02.741
I own a, I can't remember what year it is.
00:12:02.741 --> 00:12:10.721
It's I think maybe a 2023 Mini Cooper se, which is the electric version of the two door Mini Fully Battery Electric.
00:12:11.652 --> 00:12:23.802
And I, it kind of struck me looking back at some of the reviews for that car, how I think Miss leading they can be for people who might have been in the car market.
00:12:23.802 --> 00:12:29.802
The SC is actually no longer available mini's in this weird period right now where they don't currently offer a.
00:12:30.312 --> 00:12:34.182
Electric version of their two-door car only of their bigger countrymen.
00:12:34.182 --> 00:12:40.392
And there's lots of different reasons for that that have to do with, um, tariffs and all kinds of other stuff we could talk about in a different episode.
00:12:40.392 --> 00:12:41.292
But so.
00:12:41.817 --> 00:13:00.777
At the time though, uh, the se the two door was the only, uh, electric model that they offered and MotorTrend in their review review, um, echoed the sentiment that I saw across pretty much every review that was, um, out at the time that the car was available.
00:13:00.777 --> 00:13:02.006
So, I'll, I'll just read.
00:13:02.506 --> 00:13:07.277
Uh, a snippet from MotorTrend review of the 2021 Mini Cooper se.
00:13:07.667 --> 00:13:16.756
And the interesting thing is they just copy and pasted the same exact paragraph into the review of the 2022 Cooper Se and I, I believe the 2023 as well.
00:13:16.756 --> 00:13:17.027
So.
00:13:17.381 --> 00:13:22.991
Quoting here, quote, perhaps the Cooper's most significant drawback is its limited range.
00:13:23.471 --> 00:13:27.881
The electric mini can travel just 110 miles on a charge, making it the lowest range.
00:13:28.182 --> 00:13:32.501
Ev currently on sale its closest competitors to 40 kilowatt per hour.
00:13:32.591 --> 00:13:38.231
Nissan Leaf and Hyundai Ionic achieve 149 and 170 miles respectively.
00:13:39.277 --> 00:13:43.836
And I, to me that's just like a classic example of review by spec sheet because it's like, oh Yeah.
00:13:43.836 --> 00:13:44.976
look at these specs.
00:13:45.336 --> 00:13:46.777
This doesn't deliver on the specs.
00:13:46.777 --> 00:14:00.756
But the reality is this is a, this data, um, from, uh, wall Street Journal article from 2023 where they noted that the average distance to work as of the end of 2023 was um, 27 miles.
00:14:01.147 --> 00:14:02.287
And that's the average.
00:14:02.287 --> 00:14:06.907
I think most urban people are living in city centers, which is kind of mini's core audience.
00:14:07.451 --> 00:14:09.251
Their commutes are probably much shorter than that.
00:14:09.251 --> 00:14:13.721
But let's say you have the average commute, so roughly 50 miles total, both ways.
00:14:14.292 --> 00:14:18.371
You know, you've still got plenty of range to work with after that 50 mile commute.
00:14:18.851 --> 00:14:30.312
So it is just, uh, such a, uh, I think thoughtless comment to make, and it's just a function of, oh, we don't have time to actually drive this thing and test it in the real world.
00:14:30.312 --> 00:14:35.981
So we're just gonna cite this number off a spec sheet because, you know, it just makes us look smart.
00:14:36.807 --> 00:14:51.116
Now I, I'll contrast that with, of all publication cnet, which is now like a content farm, but they, um, uh, to their credit back in 2023, oh no, this is actually, it was either 2022 or 2023.
00:14:51.506 --> 00:15:01.106
They published, um, a long term review of the Mini Cooper SE So it, the piece was titled 2022 Mini Cooper SE Long-Term Wrap Up.
00:15:02.006 --> 00:15:08.427
And, uh, the subhead was after a year of city living, our electric Mini's short range isn't what we'll remember most.
00:15:09.356 --> 00:15:11.517
Um, and, uh, I don't know.
00:15:11.907 --> 00:15:15.027
I'll, I'll read some of the, um, just the beginning of that review.
00:15:15.027 --> 00:15:16.767
So they say quoting them.
00:15:16.767 --> 00:15:29.307
Now, people love to hate the electric Mini Cooper SE for its short driving range, and I would replace people With reviewers because it was really reviewers who love to hate the electricity for short driving range.
00:15:30.057 --> 00:15:32.096
But uh, continuing on with their piece.
00:15:32.096 --> 00:15:37.797
But focus on that 114 mile EPA estimate and you'll miss the car's strongest selling points.
00:15:38.277 --> 00:15:42.567
No one is buying a mini gas or electric for long distance cruising.
00:15:43.256 --> 00:15:49.557
Put the Cooper SE into service as a daily driver in a congested city and its goodness will quickly win you over.
00:15:49.557 --> 00:15:52.437
So they actually went to the effort of.
00:15:53.142 --> 00:16:00.461
Driving the car in the, um, context in which it was intended, and they came to love it.
00:16:00.461 --> 00:16:04.871
And they, you know, I love that point they made, which is that the short range isn't what we'll remember most.
00:16:04.932 --> 00:16:07.871
And that's absolutely been my experience as owner as well.
00:16:07.871 --> 00:16:12.731
It's my favorite car by a long shot of, of the cars I've owned.
00:16:13.272 --> 00:16:20.591
Um, and knowing what it was intended for, which is as a city car, it's so amazingly.
00:16:21.116 --> 00:16:24.267
Perfect for that role, and it's just such a joy to drive.
00:16:24.267 --> 00:16:38.606
So I, you know, I think we just see so much of this these days, this sort of review by spec sheet, which leads to, I think, many people to just discount a lot of products that they might love.
00:16:38.996 --> 00:16:47.667
Just because this sort of review industrial comp complex, um, is not incentivized to actually spend time on their reviews.
00:16:48.177 --> 00:16:54.866
I'd say that the counter example to that is James Hoffman, who we've talked about in the past, who has this incredible.
00:16:55.241 --> 00:16:57.461
Uh, coffee focused YouTube channel.
00:16:57.822 --> 00:17:03.731
Um, he's also a, an award-winning barista and also has a company that, uh, roasts and sells coffee.
00:17:04.241 --> 00:17:16.932
But he does incredible reviews on his site where he actually takes the time to really dig out on the spec, you know, geek out on the specifications, but then to really use the product in the way it's intended.
00:17:17.352 --> 00:17:20.471
Um, and I love how in a lot of his reviews.
00:17:21.001 --> 00:17:27.692
He'll also talk about the joy or the lack thereof of using a given product, not just the specifications.
00:17:28.261 --> 00:17:39.721
Um, but he's very much the exception, uh, rather than the rule, which is just this sort of really lowest common denominator, bottom of the barrel, sort of, uh, review by spec sheet.
00:17:39.721 --> 00:17:40.622
And to me, the.
00:17:41.442 --> 00:17:53.970
Thing that disappoints me is that that leads to lowest common denominator products because, you know, as a product maker, you're incentivized to then just make products that do adhere to that you know, checklist.
00:17:54.390 --> 00:18:02.130
Um, and you end up with a sea of products that are all effectively identical and then all you have left to compete on is price.
00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:03.779
Um, so.
00:18:04.515 --> 00:18:13.755
I would, this is I guess my, uh, soapboxing to really, um, push people to go beyond those surface level reviews.
00:18:14.174 --> 00:18:20.195
Um, I know it's difficult because it takes time and we're all busy, but, I think probably the best resource remains I.
00:18:21.411 --> 00:18:39.717
Forums and you know, now more so discord channels, these sort of hidden corners of the internet where people, who are really interested in certain topic areas are willing to spend a lot more time discussing the pros and cons of products in a way that, you know, these sort of, um.
00:18:40.666 --> 00:18:42.707
Social media reviewers are not.
00:18:43.230 --> 00:18:53.280
one other example I'll give here is, I don't know if you've seen this Yohi, you may have, but uh, this new camera from Sigma called the
00:18:53.371 --> 00:18:57.721
is it the one that's, that's made out of like a solid block of aluminum or something?
00:18:57.721 --> 00:19:00.451
They machined it out of the, it's in incred, if that's the one.
00:19:00.451 --> 00:19:00.992
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:19:00.998 --> 00:19:01.260
Okay.
00:19:01.266 --> 00:19:01.365
Yeah,
00:19:01.411 --> 00:19:02.191
that's the one.
00:19:02.641 --> 00:19:06.211
And um, I saw a review of that camera.
00:19:06.611 --> 00:19:10.510
On a YouTube channel called PET aix, which is actually a, I think, a great channel.
00:19:10.780 --> 00:19:13.570
It's folks from the old DP review site,
00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:14.070
Yeah.
00:19:14.260 --> 00:19:28.480
which is a great, uh, site for, uh, digital or camera reviews in general, but they reviewed the Sigma bf and essentially if you watch that review and we'll provide a link to it, you can boil it down to, to, I wish this camera was like all the other cameras I use.
00:19:28.990 --> 00:19:34.391
It's like basically the reviewer kind of highlighting all the things that the camera doesn't have that his.
00:19:34.976 --> 00:19:37.195
Pro his, you know, typical cameras do.
00:19:37.855 --> 00:19:45.415
And I just found it very disappointing for that because he was reviewing, you know, he wasn't reviewing what it was, but he was reviewing what he was used to using.
00:19:45.986 --> 00:19:56.066
Um, and I just think it's such a miss because there's so many things that that camera does that are so unique that, uh, I think would bring a lot of joy to a lot of people.
00:19:56.336 --> 00:19:57.506
So I think it's absolutely.
00:19:58.046 --> 00:20:08.185
There is value to highlighting the fact that maybe it doesn't have some features that you might find on typical cameras, but here are the other things that it does that those other cameras don't do.
00:20:08.395 --> 00:20:14.155
And so here's why you might enjoy it, even though it doesn't have those sort of typical checklist features.
00:20:14.155 --> 00:20:18.655
So, uh, that, that's another one that just kind of really struck me as an example of.
00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:24.578
The sort of product that is done a disservice by this kind of review culture that we're in right now.
00:20:25.526 --> 00:20:25.855
I don't know if
00:20:25.921 --> 00:20:26.371
feel you.
00:20:26.490 --> 00:20:27.391
I feel you, Ernest.
00:20:27.876 --> 00:20:30.636
Legacy media became exactly that.
00:20:31.281 --> 00:20:32.902
Spec sheet type of thing.
00:20:32.902 --> 00:20:37.192
And with internal combustion engines, it was zero to 60 was the number one stat.
00:20:37.251 --> 00:20:37.551
Right.
00:20:37.551 --> 00:20:48.862
And then German manufacturers especially, were just so honed in on extracting everything outta the engine to get that zero to 60 down to three seconds to, I mean, absolutely insane numbers that make no sense.
00:20:48.862 --> 00:20:50.632
And there's never any need for that.
00:20:50.971 --> 00:20:51.321
Right.
00:20:51.676 --> 00:20:57.467
What was interesting about then the transition to the YouTube personalities and those people is that it felt like they were authentic.
00:20:57.517 --> 00:20:58.896
They were not part of.
00:20:59.642 --> 00:21:01.501
The reviewing industrial complex as you put it.
00:21:02.041 --> 00:21:03.451
They're their own people.
00:21:03.451 --> 00:21:05.612
And, and that's why their reviews were trustworthy.
00:21:05.731 --> 00:21:07.711
They were enthusiasts and that was it.
00:21:08.221 --> 00:21:14.311
And then they became brands and then they had to worry about, you know, making money and advertising revenue and everything.
00:21:14.342 --> 00:21:15.632
Then they become legacy media.
00:21:15.632 --> 00:21:16.832
So it's, it's not that the.
00:21:17.626 --> 00:21:25.067
The platform or the medium is the problem, is the fact that the force towards commercialization and then the typical force of how you monetize this stuff is through advertising.
00:21:25.457 --> 00:21:27.737
That's what ruins all of these things.
00:21:28.247 --> 00:21:29.777
Um, so yeah, I agree.
00:21:29.777 --> 00:21:34.517
It's very hard to find good reviews that go beyond just rattling off the, the stats.
00:21:34.517 --> 00:21:36.196
And I think it's easy, right?
00:21:36.196 --> 00:21:45.017
It's very easy to churn out those reviews and make videos quickly, especially for these big budget guys now who can just, you know, they just get their army of minions to just.
00:21:45.386 --> 00:21:46.737
Takes shots and do stuff.
00:21:46.737 --> 00:22:02.277
And, but I find that also in the watch review community, it has become, I like the personalities and I don't wanna single anyone out, but it is, it is quite tedious after a while where you just, uh, the, it's this many males across and it's like, how does it feel?
00:22:02.277 --> 00:22:03.626
Like, what does it, what's cool about it?
00:22:03.626 --> 00:22:06.896
What does it make you want to, you know, what is the vibe of this thing?
00:22:07.826 --> 00:22:08.967
And so to that.
00:22:09.326 --> 00:22:13.797
My counterpoint to actually, I, you know, I don't, I'm not a photographing enthusiast.
00:22:13.797 --> 00:22:29.186
I don't have any fancy cameras, but I do follow this YouTube channel called GX Ace, and this person does camera reviews and they are like mini Blade Runner vignettes.
00:22:29.727 --> 00:22:31.497
That is the only way I can describe them.
00:22:31.497 --> 00:22:32.037
He.
00:22:32.892 --> 00:22:36.731
He will pick a pick camera that is maybe not being produced anymore.
00:22:37.271 --> 00:22:41.592
Um, and he just takes fantastic pictures of them with, with them.
00:22:42.582 --> 00:22:50.521
And he's created this narrative that he is speaking from the future, maybe 20 years in the future, and.
00:22:50.912 --> 00:22:56.582
He describes our present moment through that lens of being from the future.
00:22:56.632 --> 00:23:03.476
he's got this little narrative arc to it that's very, inspiring, entertaining, and the pictures he takes are really wonderful.
00:23:03.476 --> 00:23:04.766
You get a great sense of.
00:23:05.605 --> 00:23:11.365
Why this camera is so good, because it's, the picture is what matters, not the specs.
00:23:11.365 --> 00:23:12.385
It's like, what does it do?
00:23:12.385 --> 00:23:12.776
You know?
00:23:13.496 --> 00:23:18.806
So we'll link to that person's, they're very entertaining and, um, immersive.
00:23:18.925 --> 00:23:22.526
So that is a great counterpoint to the, to the spec sheet thing.
00:23:22.526 --> 00:23:27.236
Like I, I don't think he even mentions megapixels on the sensor or something.
00:23:27.286 --> 00:23:28.125
They're very inspirational.
00:23:28.125 --> 00:23:28.905
I think that is.
00:23:29.226 --> 00:23:31.445
That is where the medium should be.
00:23:31.445 --> 00:23:37.326
It is this, you let me experience what this thing lets you do and then that will inspire me potentially.
00:23:37.326 --> 00:23:37.506
Yeah.
00:23:37.506 --> 00:23:39.125
And that's why I like James Hoffman as well.
00:23:39.125 --> 00:23:41.796
He's also very unromantic about things.
00:23:41.796 --> 00:23:42.695
I think you need that as well.
00:23:42.695 --> 00:23:46.296
There's very grounded, no coffee, pun intended, but there it is.
00:23:47.256 --> 00:23:51.155
Grounded approach to his coffee reviewing machine, uh, when he reviews coffee machines.
00:23:51.296 --> 00:23:52.165
I trusted his review.
00:23:52.195 --> 00:23:58.316
So I think it's about, yeah, it's hard to trust anyone now in these review cycles.
00:23:58.316 --> 00:24:01.465
And so of course they, they don't want to ruin their brand.
00:24:01.496 --> 00:24:02.726
They don't wanna upset anyone.
00:24:02.726 --> 00:24:04.076
So the spec sheet is.
00:24:04.961 --> 00:24:06.371
The lowest common denominator.
00:24:06.371 --> 00:24:11.621
That is the statement that is unemotional and not subject to debate.
00:24:12.101 --> 00:24:12.371
Right.
00:24:12.371 --> 00:24:18.070
But if someone said, I took a picture and it just doesn't have the right feeling to it, they'll be like, oh my God, what are you doing?
00:24:18.070 --> 00:24:18.820
This is terrible.
00:24:18.820 --> 00:24:19.181
You know?
00:24:19.840 --> 00:24:23.530
Um, actually on that note, that reminds me, I remember, um.
00:24:24.806 --> 00:24:26.395
Chris Harris is a car reviewer.
00:24:26.395 --> 00:24:32.155
He also ran a YouTube channel and I can't remember which car manufacturer it was.
00:24:32.155 --> 00:24:39.086
It could have been oh, Lamborghini or someone like that, like a pretty big or Mercedes, one of those.
00:24:39.086 --> 00:24:46.105
I'll try and remember and we can maybe link to it, but he describes the fact that he has been throughout his career, very honest about.
00:24:46.556 --> 00:24:54.506
Car reviews and he had a moment where he was describing the typical car review circuit now, and he is just one of the reviews there.
00:24:54.506 --> 00:24:56.306
And then there are all these influences there.
00:24:57.026 --> 00:24:59.935
And I think he was driving a Mercedes, a MG.
00:25:00.506 --> 00:25:08.365
And it has all these modes in it that allow the computer to help you drive it so you can drift the car without much skill.
00:25:08.965 --> 00:25:11.635
And so they, all these influences drive it.
00:25:11.965 --> 00:25:13.076
They love it because they're.
00:25:13.796 --> 00:25:16.645
They're not professional drivers, they're just personalities.
00:25:17.215 --> 00:25:23.486
And he commented on the fact that that's the majority of car reviews of that, and Mercedes loves having them on track.
00:25:23.816 --> 00:25:27.385
And then he hops in the car and he switches everything off.
00:25:28.151 --> 00:25:30.911
And then he drives the car around the track and he gives an honest review.
00:25:30.911 --> 00:25:32.770
He says, this car is pretty boring.
00:25:32.951 --> 00:25:34.631
It's, you know, it's not very good.
00:25:34.631 --> 00:25:40.510
So it's, it's out there, you know, and that we understand that something has gone awry with the.
00:25:41.395 --> 00:25:43.256
What the power of YouTube was, which was authenticity.
00:25:43.256 --> 00:25:45.566
It wasn't a typical broadcast medium.
00:25:45.566 --> 00:25:48.746
It was a very flat democratized broadcast medium.
00:25:48.806 --> 00:25:50.516
Um, and now it's just tv.
00:25:50.516 --> 00:25:51.806
Like everything else it feels like.
00:25:51.806 --> 00:25:54.115
So, but you have to find those pockets and they exist.
00:25:54.115 --> 00:26:02.935
And so I, yeah, we will help people find these little pockets and I'm sure that will spur the YouTube algorithm to pick other things that you can stumble on that are interesting.
00:26:02.935 --> 00:26:04.885
And that's the way we fight back.
00:26:05.155 --> 00:26:05.935
It's resistance.
00:26:07.056 --> 00:26:21.750
Well, you know, on that point I was starting to think, okay, knowing that it'll take a while for that change to happen, if ever, you know, understanding that this is now the, the state of affairs, what could you as a product person in the business of making products do about that?
00:26:22.290 --> 00:26:29.371
And what I started to, get to was the idea that it almost means that you have to.
00:26:30.840 --> 00:26:39.480
Make your product so extreme that it just forces reviewers to break out of that spec sheet review by spec sheet paradigm.
00:26:39.990 --> 00:26:54.601
And you know, I think the, um, Sigma BF is a good example of that, is just so different from traditional digital cameras that it really does force you as a reviewer to approach it differently because.
00:26:55.260 --> 00:27:01.320
Otherwise, you'll just end up like that pix review, which is really boring and just saying, oh, it doesn't do all these things that my other cameras do.
00:27:01.861 --> 00:27:02.131
You know?
00:27:02.131 --> 00:27:05.431
So it forces you to, to approach it in a different way.
00:27:05.760 --> 00:27:11.820
Another example that I, I saw recently that I'm really excited about is this little mini truck.
00:27:11.820 --> 00:27:22.500
I don't know if you've seen this, this, it's from a startup company called Telo, TELO, and it's called the MT one, and the line that everyone's repeating, which I'm sure they've.
00:27:23.040 --> 00:27:31.590
Uh, given them is it's as short as a two door mini Cooper, but has five seats and a bed that's essentially as big as a standard pickup.
00:27:32.191 --> 00:27:35.671
Uh, the, it's a remarkable feat of packaging.
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:45.901
Um, it's, it's not commercially available yet, but they just, uh, in the last few weeks started, um, giving people an opportunity to drive it.
00:27:45.931 --> 00:27:46.500
Reviewers.
00:27:47.131 --> 00:27:49.411
And, you know, there again, it's something that.
00:27:49.921 --> 00:27:54.631
You know,'cause the discourse around pickups is really also just so stupid.
00:27:55.050 --> 00:28:05.790
If you've ever looked at reviews for pickup trucks, it's so this classic review by spec sheet, oh, it doesn't tow 7,000 pounds, so it's not a real pickup, you know, it's like, God, gimme a freaking break.
00:28:06.601 --> 00:28:18.181
And so this forces reviewers outside of that just, uh, milk toasts spec sheet review paradigm, because it's just so different.
00:28:18.181 --> 00:28:18.421
So.
00:28:19.066 --> 00:28:35.175
That feels like, you know, maybe that's, at least, I'm sure there's other ways to do it too, but that's one way to break out of this, um, construct because otherwise, like I said, the other way is just lower pricing, which is just a road to nowhere, right.
00:28:35.796 --> 00:28:45.455
So, um, I think this, and it's obviously scary as well to do something that's really different and breaks out of the norm and to a, um, a significant way.
00:28:45.455 --> 00:28:51.996
But it feels like it's almost essential now to do that so that your product doesn't get lost in the shuffle.
00:28:53.090 --> 00:29:03.286
It reminds me, I think we referenced this a few episodes ago, but Sandy Bo's work on Nike Espb is kind of the great playbook of how to, I mean, it's, he has the, the.
00:29:04.056 --> 00:29:13.566
The machinery of Nike behind him and the marketing machinery of Nike, but kind of bypasses all of that to create a brand that feels more authentic and is able to connect directly with the community.
00:29:13.925 --> 00:29:26.465
So I feel like another approach is really to start focusing more on, I have this very focused idea and I will first find the people that are interested in being part of that and maybe bring them along for that journey.
00:29:26.465 --> 00:29:33.155
So it's interesting'cause you mentioned that company Telo, the first thing on the top of that page is actually join our Discord server.
00:29:34.101 --> 00:29:38.980
So I'm gonna speculate, but this is how I would play is like, I know this product is not gonna appeal to everyone.
00:29:38.980 --> 00:29:40.391
This is not a mass market thing.
00:29:40.391 --> 00:29:42.851
It's an electric pickup truck that looks quite funky.
00:29:42.851 --> 00:29:43.540
It looks really cute.
00:29:43.540 --> 00:29:45.520
I do like it and its footprint is tiny.
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:53.711
Um, and yeah, so everyone's gonna hop on the Discord server and they're gonna connect with each other and go be like, oh, you like small trucks that are electric?
00:29:53.770 --> 00:29:54.161
Cool.
00:29:54.161 --> 00:29:55.300
I like these things as well.
00:29:55.300 --> 00:29:56.320
And, and then you have this.
00:29:56.855 --> 00:29:59.286
Thing that is a groundswell built around a product.
00:29:59.855 --> 00:30:02.346
Um, and I think that's kind of interesting.
00:30:02.346 --> 00:30:13.026
It's a very, well, it's an old school approach and a new school approach because you can use the technology to build these connections across people, across continents and actually figure out a lot about what they actually care about.
00:30:13.026 --> 00:30:18.365
And, um, you could even draw them into the, the process of how this product's gonna emerge.
00:30:18.395 --> 00:30:29.945
So yeah, truck discourses is some of the, I mean, that's the thing that's interesting about, um, actually Ford as a prime example, like they, they did actually go the other way, right?
00:30:29.945 --> 00:30:40.935
They, the F-150 is there and then beyond there's more, but then they also have the, they have the Maverick, which is that tiny, tiny pickup truck, which is really cute and is enough.
00:30:40.935 --> 00:30:43.455
It's like the way the F-150 was in the eighties or
00:30:43.796 --> 00:30:44.215
Mm-hmm.
00:30:44.476 --> 00:30:58.786
Um, and then that's pretty interesting that they were, they went all the way down and it's, it has none of the typical truck features, but it's got a bed and it's got five, five seats and everything that you'd want to have from it, and it's looks pretty practical.
00:30:59.671 --> 00:31:03.240
That was an interesting counter, you know, a response to the whole, bigger, bigger,
00:31:03.385 --> 00:31:04.415
Right, and it's been.
00:31:04.621 --> 00:31:05.191
went the other way.
00:31:05.191 --> 00:31:05.431
Yeah.
00:31:05.431 --> 00:31:06.570
And it's been pretty successful.
00:31:07.211 --> 00:31:09.941
Yeah, that Maverick has been enormously successful.
00:31:10.391 --> 00:31:11.740
It's, it's just so funny how.
00:31:12.145 --> 00:31:20.336
Uh, companies and industries get stuck in these ruts of just believing their own bs, you know,
00:31:20.695 --> 00:31:20.986
Yeah.
00:31:21.715 --> 00:31:25.465
and, and, uh, just not listening to what their customers are looking for.
00:31:26.036 --> 00:31:37.195
Uh, but, but that was all I had, that, that kind of theme of this kind of review industrial complex and what's that's leading, what that's leading to, and how maybe as people making products, we can break outta that.
00:31:37.195 --> 00:31:40.590
But, um, I think you, it sounded like you had some other things you wanted to highlight as well.
00:31:40.980 --> 00:31:41.971
I had a few things.
00:31:41.971 --> 00:31:46.830
So I know a lot of people are disconnecting from the day to day of the, of the news cycle, which I think is fine.
00:31:47.351 --> 00:32:05.381
The way I've been trying to process this is I, I'm trying to focus more on a, first of all, productive and not keeping my eyes and ears closed to ways where there's a moment where I could probably contribute in one direction in to make things to ameliorate things and be less, be less worse.
00:32:05.381 --> 00:32:09.131
So be aware of those things, but then also having the long view.
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:11.365
Uh, so that means.
00:32:12.490 --> 00:32:28.601
Actually trying to work on figuring out longer run solutions for the problems that we face in general, societal problems, not the ones of the political establishment, but just things that are on my mind, um, and trying to avoid these gotcha headlines.
00:32:28.631 --> 00:32:30.881
I'm gonna call it the New York Times Industrial Complex.
00:32:30.881 --> 00:32:47.351
Is this the, the way they've kind of been passing the news in the first time we had a Trump administration, it was always this kind of like, let's count how many lies, or, you know, oh, he, that's not quite correct because it turns out blah, blah, or Elon Musk is wrong, that there are over a hundred thousand people who are a hundred years old or whatever.
00:32:47.351 --> 00:32:58.191
There was this whole, dissection of why he must be wrong about the ages of people, because they don't understand that in COBOL, the way dates are done is different from things and you gotta, oh yeah.
00:32:58.191 --> 00:33:03.740
So it turns out like, you know, Unix starts in 1970 at zero, but COBOL starts in 1870, so blah, blah, blah.
00:33:03.921 --> 00:33:04.941
Who cares?
00:33:05.286 --> 00:33:11.826
If you want the summary, it's like people are gonna get harmed by these things, and it doesn't matter like what the stats are and if the numbers are not right, who cares?
00:33:11.855 --> 00:33:13.476
Like protect people.
00:33:13.536 --> 00:33:14.556
You don't need the rest of it.
00:33:15.036 --> 00:33:18.115
This doesn't help me solve these bigger problems.
00:33:18.165 --> 00:33:23.895
Long introduction to base, the idea of how do I start curating a world that I can actually focus on more long view things.
00:33:23.895 --> 00:33:30.496
And so I found that, um, the thing that's really helped me is having an RSS reader and, um.
00:33:30.854 --> 00:33:36.733
Being very directed in who I follow and people that are discussing longer view things or websites that focus on longer things.
00:33:36.733 --> 00:33:38.923
So RSS is a really old fashioned technology.
00:33:38.953 --> 00:33:40.334
We use it for the podcast as well.
00:33:40.844 --> 00:33:49.634
It's just a feed that updates that you can read from any type of app, and it will populate it with the latest things that a website is publishing.
00:33:49.638 --> 00:33:51.104
So it could be any website every.
00:33:51.138 --> 00:33:54.739
Major website has these, so you don't have to rely on social media.
00:33:54.739 --> 00:33:57.409
This is the main thing that social media always mixes.
00:33:57.409 --> 00:34:00.048
The ads and the clickbait this and the new headlines.
00:34:00.378 --> 00:34:03.138
It's just really hard to get stuff so.
00:34:03.804 --> 00:34:08.784
So the one that I'm using is the, I think it's pronounced eno rita INO reader.com.
00:34:09.563 --> 00:34:14.574
And I have just been using that as my primary point of getting information.
00:34:14.574 --> 00:34:17.784
And I've stumbled on so many interesting things as a result of that.
00:34:18.143 --> 00:34:21.744
Uh, every blogger that there are so many great bloggers out there again.
00:34:21.753 --> 00:34:25.443
I add them on the feed and I can just be updated in all of the things that they do.
00:34:25.954 --> 00:34:33.123
Um, if you're fans of tki tki.org, who does links all the time, he's a great source for other RSS feeds.
00:34:33.123 --> 00:34:34.684
So he has a feed, you can use that.
00:34:34.684 --> 00:34:39.603
I would recommend doing that because it helps you focus on the things that you want to keep track of.
00:34:39.634 --> 00:34:39.873
Yes.
00:34:39.873 --> 00:34:43.893
I also have like one newspaper that I follow and then, and that's it.
00:34:43.893 --> 00:34:45.123
I don't, I don't have anything else.
00:34:45.123 --> 00:34:50.673
And that newspaper is the Financial Times of London, and it's so dry and so focused and boring.
00:34:50.704 --> 00:34:51.454
It's perfect.
00:34:51.454 --> 00:34:52.474
It's, it's just very good.
00:34:53.074 --> 00:34:58.083
Um, but because of that I've stumbled on all these other things, so I'm just gonna do like a dump.
00:34:59.554 --> 00:35:09.313
One of them is, a writer on Substack called Catherine Shannon, and she is really, I, I don't know what to call her.
00:35:09.313 --> 00:35:15.284
She doesn't write about big things, but they feel like big things, and I, I think it's something about.
00:35:16.614 --> 00:35:21.653
captures the essence of vibes, the importance of vibes and emotion and feeling and, and things like that.
00:35:21.653 --> 00:35:25.793
She wrote a lot of fun posts that I think are great entry points.
00:35:26.304 --> 00:35:43.554
Uh, one of them is your phone is why you don't feel sexy, and she kind of revisits how phones used to be kind of a sexy thing and now they're just this awful distraction and you just look like a douche bag when you're on it, and they're not this cool accessory that you kind of would show and only flip out once in a while.
00:35:43.603 --> 00:35:51.884
She also wrote this great piece about,, what you should do in your twenties or how to cult cultivate your intuition, like little life lessons, which I really appreciate.
00:35:51.884 --> 00:35:55.724
She's, she's a bit younger than us, but I think she's got pretty interesting perspective.
00:35:56.054 --> 00:36:05.923
So that's one I would put out there as something very different from the news cycle, but it's still focused on a deeper level of introspection and understanding how you can cultivate and nurture.
00:36:06.943 --> 00:36:07.514
Your soul.
00:36:07.574 --> 00:36:10.693
It sounds very grand, sorry, but it's one of those things I think we need to do that.
00:36:11.204 --> 00:36:17.414
Um, and then the other thing that has also been separately from feeds, but I actually pulled from someone else's feed.
00:36:17.954 --> 00:36:20.983
Um, she wrote this essay, her name is.
00:36:21.704 --> 00:36:24.463
Ah, it's her, her blog is called The Mind Garden.
00:36:24.853 --> 00:36:38.264
Uh, we'll send the link, but she wrote the thing about a hundred to 200 page books being kind of the sweet spot for big ideas and a lot of books patted out because we have this idea that 300 pages for a nonfiction book is, is essential.
00:36:38.773 --> 00:36:41.233
She listed a couple of a hundred page books that she really liked.
00:36:41.233 --> 00:36:51.463
And one two of them were, um, in Praise of Shadows, uh, which is a novelist writing about Japanese aesthetics, Zaki.
00:36:51.824 --> 00:36:53.414
He writes about.
00:36:53.759 --> 00:36:59.579
The, the magical way Japanese architects and artists play with shadows.
00:36:59.849 --> 00:37:01.559
It's very straightforward, it's wonderful.
00:37:02.188 --> 00:37:09.568
Um, and then another book, which is kind of you would think is the opposite, Kenya Hara, who is the art director of Muji.
00:37:10.048 --> 00:37:10.469
That's.
00:37:10.844 --> 00:37:12.164
Brand, the famous brand.
00:37:12.583 --> 00:37:18.043
Um, but he wrote this book called White, and it's about a hundred pages and it's really fantastic.
00:37:18.074 --> 00:37:24.943
It's deeply philosophical, enjoyable, easy to read, but then can challenge you in lots of interesting ways.
00:37:25.543 --> 00:37:28.153
So I, I think I'm now on this.
00:37:29.264 --> 00:37:33.764
Focus of trying to find highly condensed and focused books.
00:37:34.213 --> 00:37:36.884
There's a book called On Tyranny, which people really, really like.
00:37:36.884 --> 00:37:42.344
And that's about a hundred, 200 pages super focused, you know, um, Harry Frankfort wrote the book on bullshit.
00:37:42.434 --> 00:37:43.994
It's nothing, it's super short.
00:37:43.994 --> 00:37:47.233
Like these are to the point, not wasting my time.
00:37:47.804 --> 00:37:54.043
And I feel like that is a certain urgency now to like, we just need to feed our brains very, very focused messages.
00:37:54.074 --> 00:37:56.954
And then, uh, we will be able to.
00:37:57.599 --> 00:38:01.289
Help wherever we can, however we can, whatever it is that we wanna do.
00:38:01.289 --> 00:38:06.028
I just, there's a certain, yeah, I'm feeling a certain urgency here.
00:38:06.059 --> 00:38:14.548
Like, I, like, I still read novels, but I've been favoring short novels as well, that I like that I'll, I'll add them to our list so everyone can see what these short novels are.
00:38:15.088 --> 00:38:17.489
They pack a punch, you know, they kind of get to the point.
00:38:17.489 --> 00:38:24.148
So all of that to say, uh, I've been on a trip to try and curate and focus.
00:38:24.884 --> 00:38:36.373
My time on things that I think are highly effective for wellbeing, feeling, not feeling so alone, uh, connecting with the, the world and the community.
00:38:36.373 --> 00:38:45.014
And ultimately, yeah, I think the missing pieces, like how do you build more community, um, which I think is happening in our daily lives in general here.
00:38:45.014 --> 00:38:48.914
But yeah, it would be nice to use all of those things that we have here as well.
00:38:48.914 --> 00:38:51.313
Like we should, Hey.
00:38:51.809 --> 00:38:53.009
Maybe we should have a discord.
00:38:53.188 --> 00:38:54.509
Ernest, maybe this is the moment.
00:38:54.509 --> 00:38:55.139
I don't know.
00:38:55.168 --> 00:38:58.559
But I was just saying there's, there's something like you, we always say, we'd like to hear from you.
00:38:58.559 --> 00:38:59.188
We should, yeah.
00:38:59.219 --> 00:39:00.119
I think it's very true.
00:39:00.119 --> 00:39:07.739
We love, we love the idea that this is part of people's listening behavior, so it's It is something, yeah.
00:39:08.454 --> 00:39:19.434
I really, I'm, I, I'm so glad you made that recommendation of the RSS reader'cause I've been meaning to readopt RSS'cause I've kind of had dropped off some years back.
00:39:19.494 --> 00:39:23.063
Um, but I think you're totally right that, that, to get out of this.
00:39:24.429 --> 00:39:33.099
Uh, world of Got News and stupid headlines, uh, would just be so much better for, um, my health
00:39:33.909 --> 00:39:34.199
Yeah.
00:39:34.418 --> 00:39:36.909
also my, um, knowledge base.
00:39:36.909 --> 00:39:40.119
So, uh, I'm definitely going to check that out.
00:39:40.148 --> 00:39:53.289
Oh, one quick follow up to on your recommendation of In Praise of Shadows, for one, I, I'll definitely read it, but also if you enjoyed that, I think you might also enjoy, um, I think I mentioned it in a previous episode, this movie.
00:39:54.054 --> 00:39:55.074
Perfect days,
00:39:55.474 --> 00:39:56.094
Oh yes,
00:39:56.753 --> 00:39:58.164
did have you seen it Oh,
00:39:58.173 --> 00:39:58.934
your recommendation.
00:39:58.934 --> 00:39:59.534
We watched it.
00:39:59.804 --> 00:40:00.494
It's fantastic.
00:40:00.773 --> 00:40:01.253
Oh, all good.
00:40:01.253 --> 00:40:02.184
I'm glad you liked it.
00:40:02.244 --> 00:40:11.994
And you know, core to it is this idea of rebi, which is this idea of sunlight filtering through the trees and creating dancing shadows and just forcing you to be in the moment.
00:40:12.563 --> 00:40:16.164
Um, but I do, I think that's such a, uh, a beautiful idea.
00:40:16.164 --> 00:40:18.114
So, uh, I'm definitely excited to read that.
00:40:18.804 --> 00:40:19.884
But those are awesome.
00:40:20.489 --> 00:40:23.998
Well, I recommend the perfect days Again, let's, everyone needs to watch it.
00:40:23.998 --> 00:40:29.849
Ev I keep bumping into people and, and Tina and I, my wife and I, we recommend it and everyone's say, oh, I haven't heard of this one.
00:40:29.849 --> 00:40:30.838
I'm like, are you insane?
00:40:30.869 --> 00:40:32.849
This is, this is the thing that you need.
00:40:32.849 --> 00:40:39.568
You need to see a person who's just content and is absorbing every aspect of daily life.
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:41.548
And there is yet, there is still.
00:40:41.768 --> 00:40:43.028
Deep sadness in their life.
00:40:43.059 --> 00:40:44.768
It is so, it is so wonderful.
00:40:44.768 --> 00:40:45.068
Yeah.
00:40:45.518 --> 00:40:46.389
Uh, yeah.
00:40:46.389 --> 00:40:47.619
And he's got cassette tapes.
00:40:47.648 --> 00:40:48.309
I love that.
00:40:48.309 --> 00:40:49.778
This is so, it's so cool.
00:40:49.809 --> 00:40:50.079
Yeah.
00:40:50.498 --> 00:41:07.164
And there is also, um, it's a beau, a fantastic soundtrack, but, um, if you look up the soundtrack on the various streaming surfaces, I think the only, so, um, thing that comes up is the one track, which is the instrumental piano version of Perfect Day.
00:41:07.853 --> 00:41:09.833
Uh, and it's really beautiful.
00:41:09.833 --> 00:41:18.534
So that's another, if you wanna kind of get a sense for the film, just listen to that and, um, it really does convey the feeling you get from the film as a whole as well.
00:41:19.463 --> 00:41:21.534
Uh, well, those are fantastic.
00:41:21.563 --> 00:41:25.284
Um, and I think that that does it for this episode.
00:41:25.884 --> 00:41:29.244
Uh, as I mentioned earlier, we do want to hear from you.
00:41:29.693 --> 00:41:30.293
Um, do you.
00:41:30.813 --> 00:41:33.634
Have experiences with anything we've recommended this week?
00:41:34.083 --> 00:41:35.614
If so, what's your perspective?
00:41:35.614 --> 00:41:41.074
Or maybe there's a product or service you'd love to hear us focus on through the lens of product and product marketing.
00:41:41.614 --> 00:41:57.719
Uh, whether it's a request, a question, or an observation, please do share your thoughts with us at LearnMakeLearn@gmail.com or on threads@LearnMakeLearnShow, all one word and let us know if you would like us to start a discord server.
00:41:57.838 --> 00:41:58.849
yes, yes.
00:41:59.219 --> 00:42:01.858
If, if enough people are interested, um, we'll do it.
00:42:02.398 --> 00:42:12.686
Uh, now as for our next episode, we haven't talked about this prior to this, but, um, I'll, I'll run this by you on air yo with, uh, watches and Wonders coming up.
00:42:12.686 --> 00:42:18.146
What about doing another kind of, uh, whether it's a pre or post, watches and Wonders episode?
00:42:18.755 --> 00:42:19.476
I'm up for that.
00:42:19.476 --> 00:42:20.346
That that'll be fun.
00:42:20.376 --> 00:42:25.115
That's a good, that's a good warm up topic episode.
00:42:25.115 --> 00:42:25.746
Yeah, I'm happy.
00:42:25.835 --> 00:42:27.036
Let's, let's revisit that.
00:42:27.186 --> 00:42:28.655
Hopefully we'll get, maybe, who knows?
00:42:28.655 --> 00:42:29.496
It'll get political.
00:42:29.525 --> 00:42:30.096
You never know.
00:42:31.016 --> 00:42:45.686
Well, you know, the funny thing, our, our mutual friend Dan, uh, who we've both worked with, he approached me and said that he is not at all interested in watches, but he said he really enjoyed listening to our last year's watch Some Wonder's follow up episode.
00:42:46.405 --> 00:42:50.036
So, um, it seems like there's an audience for it, so.
00:42:50.610 --> 00:42:51.780
we got, we got one,
00:42:51.896 --> 00:42:52.766
Yeah, we've got one.
00:42:52.860 --> 00:42:54.601
one non non watch person.
00:42:54.630 --> 00:42:55.561
I think that's a big deal.
00:42:55.561 --> 00:42:57.090
So this one's for you, Dan.
00:42:58.826 --> 00:42:59.215
All right.
00:42:59.215 --> 00:43:14.326
So that, I think we're on then for, uh, a Watch and Wonders episode and for anyone who doesn't know Watches and Wonders is the big annual watch, um, trade show I guess that happens in Switzerland and it's going to kick off at the very end of this month and run through the beginning of April.
00:43:15.041 --> 00:43:19.601
alright, well thanks for listening and we hope you'll join us for the next Learn Make, learn.