Rosebud Baker: 'Windex'

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I'm going to break for the first time in almost
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three years the usual format where I usually have the
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guests say their name and what they wanted to like
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the first thing they ever wanted to be when they
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grew up. But after reading your book, I know that
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you wanted to be a horse, and that really excites
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me because I wanted to be a cat. Yes, so
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I'd love to talk about that.
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I think it's a real sign of like neurodivergence if
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you're I think like if your kid wants to be
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some other species when they grow up, I think that's
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sort of the first sign of like either a creative
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mind or just neurodivergence, you know, but kind of they're
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one and the same.
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Yeah, they're very similar because I because when I was
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told I could be anything, I took it literally and
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I was like, great, a cat seems to have a
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pretty nice life. And then my dad was like, you
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can't be a cat, you're a human, and I was like, what.
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I mean, at least he hit you with like your
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human drop this now, you know, Like I don't know why.
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My dad was like, well, you're gonna have to change
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your name and we're gonna have to go to the
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DMV and that's gonna take all day, you know, Like my.
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Dad, that's a different route.
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He sort of entertained it enough to like make me
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think that it was still possible, probably like far longer
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than I needed to believe. My kid is kind of
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like in that phase right now. I wake up every
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day and she's like the morning Pinocchio, and I'm like,
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good morning. She's like, no, I'm Geppeto, and I'm like, okay,
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good morning Geppeto. You know, like I have to. She's
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constantly reminded me to call her the character that she
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is for the day and like changes it up every
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like six minutes. I'm in this sort of hell where
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I'm so afraid to like make any sort of reference
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to anything Disney related because I'm so scared to be
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Pinocchio again.
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There's a lot to unpack in the fact that you
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are Pinocchio and Pinocchio and she's your creator.
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He's the old man. She's the old man with like
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loose sucks, and I hear her creation. Yeah, I'm her creation.
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And you know what it does say a lot. It
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says everything, really, because she does run this fucking house.
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Yeah, yeah, you work for me.
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M hm.
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So when did you transfer from horse to getting more
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into writing and comedy.
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Yeah, I mean it was more of like a process
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of elimination, like a sort of long, painful process of
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elimination where it was like I wanted to be a singer,
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and then it was like, you're not going to be
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a singer. And then I was like, okay, well I
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want to be a dancer, and it's like you can't
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have tits and be a dancer. You know, well you can,
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but it's not the kind of dancer you want to be.
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And and then I was like, okay, well I'll be
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an actress. And then and I was good at it,
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but it was it was like you have to wait
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for permission, you know what I mean, Like someone has
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to cast you. So you're just eating around for someone
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to let you do the thing that you are good at.
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And then just became a comic literally like a as
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a goof kind of like I tried comedy during a
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period of time when I did not know what I
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wanted to do with my life, and I just happened
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to have like a severely addictive personality and kind of
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locked in on that and really loved the world that
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came along with comedy, which is crazy now way that
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I look back at like the early days of comedy
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and they were some of the best days of my
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entire life. And I because I had no idea how
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miserable I should have been. I had no idea that
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there was no real valor in what I was doing,
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which was like barking for comedy shows. I mean, there
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was just this totally different attitude about like paying your dues,
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and the harder it was, the more glorious it was
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going to be. And I think we all kind of
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like came out of that spell during the pandemic. We
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were all like wait, what, Like what this hustle culture
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shit that we were all like falling for. I just
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loved stand up and I loved the people, and it
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gave me this community of people that I still consider
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my family. So it just happened, just kind of happened.
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I've heard quite a few people that I've interviewed who
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do stand up saying the same thing in terms of
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I can just get up and do it, and I
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don't have to wait for someone. Obviously you need to
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get a slaughter or whatever, but you can find one
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and you're not. It's not like waiting around to.
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Start, right. You can do it tonight. You don't have
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to be booked. You can book yourself on any open
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night wherever. And I think that that's for a while.
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That's really all you need. You just want a chance
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to do it. And you don't care how bad that
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how bad the opportunity is. You're like, it's an opportunity.
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Yeah. In your book, you talk about how having your
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daughter kind of open these floodgates and made you I
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don't know for members the right word, but think about
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a lot of things that have happened in your life.
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So what is the moment that that you go, Okay,
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this is happening, and now I'm going to write a
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memoir and publish it. How do you get from one
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of those things?
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Well, I got the offer to write the memoir before
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I found out I was pregnant, before I started doing
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IVF before, so it was like I had this book
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deal and I was in a season of my life
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where I was like under all of this pressure, both
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societal and biological pressure. You know, I mean, nobody, even
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if you don't want kids, you're not immune to the
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to the pressure that society puts on women to like
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have a baby, and I really was struggling with I
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did not want to have a baby based off of that,
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and so deciphering in my own mind what was my
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voice and what was the voice of like every other,
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every other opinion out there, I really needed. I wanted
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to like take my time and figure that out. So
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so I was just in this massive transition and my
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past and my present were sort of colliding in this
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crazy way where I was trying to imagine what my
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future was going to look like, and especially once I
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got pregnant, I started to think about what is my
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future going to look like now that I know I'm
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going to have a baby, And I started to think, well,
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what did my past look like? What do I want
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to change? And it's natural, you know, when you find
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out you're having a kid, you're like, in a way,
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you kind of get to do over your own childhood.
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Like you get to keep the parts of your childhood
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that you liked, hopefully, and you get to eliminate the
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parts that you didn't. You're still going to fuck up
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and they're still going to resent you, but like the
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point is, you do the best you can with what
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you got. So yeah, it was kind of just this
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organic process, like I didn't know what I was going
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to write about when I sat down to write. I
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just started writing, and then it eventually took shape.
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How far in did you get the idea of what
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it was going to look like?
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It was almost finished, It was almost yeah, and it
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was like, we really got to put this in the
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shape of a book. And I reached out to a writer,
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Caroline Writer, and was like, please look at this, see
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what you think. How do we make this? How do
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we make this a book and not like a bunch
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of essays that aren't really connected. And she was the
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one who pointed out that the pregnancy and the IVF
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and all of these stories are like ways into the other.
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Because I had already spoken about how how I wanted
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to how this was all a portal into my past,
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and she was like, let's make it that, you know,
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Let's start this way and get into each of these
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stories that way. And I was like, oh, this's genius, Yeah,
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let's do it. So she really helped me shape the
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entire thing. And because I'm a comedy writer, I like
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to write with other people, so we would go through
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the book together. I would be punching stuff up as
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she was restructuring, and then we would go through each
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chapter together and it was amazing. It was a really
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fun process.
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That's good because I feel like it can go the
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complete opposite direction.
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Yeah, And it was like for a while it was miserable,
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Like I gotta be honest, the parts where I was
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writing alone, I was just like, what even is this?
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Yeah, yeah, I would imagine that would be hard not
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to be in a collaborative environment all of a sudden.
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Mm hmm. Yeah.
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You talk about worrying that you're going to go fully baker,
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m hm. Can you explain to the listener what that means.
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Yeah, So, I mean my family is very waspy. They're
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very judgmental and hypocritical in the same way that most
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wasps are. Like, you can't talk about you can be
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good at something, you're expected to be good at something,
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but you can can't be proud of it and can't
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really you know what I mean. You can be dying
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and you can't talk about death. But once somebody's dead,
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we're going to open up the casket and you've got
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to stare at it. You gotta go look at the death,
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you know, So it's like this this kind of just emotionally,
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it's an emotional drought that sort of has plagued my
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family for generations. And I don't really see myself getting
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there because because of the life that I've chosen for myself,
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it sort of requires a connection to your own feelings.
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But it was kind of it was always in my
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brain of like I don't want to fall back into
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this default where you ignore the emotional life of someone
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and you just plow you just plow forward in your life,
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and it's all about just like how productive you can
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be because it leads to this mindset of you have
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to earn love. It it's not something that you just
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deserve for existing. You gotta prove yourself worthy of loving.
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And that's something that like I really really was frightened
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of instilling in my own kid because it's something that
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took a lot of unlearning for me.
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Yeah, it takes a really long time. Like for me,
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I picked up a seventeen year long eating disorder as
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a way to kind of not feel as much or
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suppressed because I think we were probably similar as kids.
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You talk about being hyper verbal, and that was very
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much me I just wanted to observe and talk about it,
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and I when you know, be it even school, I mean,
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kids are terrible. Like when the world didn't show me
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that reflection back, I was like, I don't know what
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to what to do with this. Do you find comedy
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right and stand up as a way to like use
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those powers for good, like use that sense of observation
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and your words to turn it into something positive.
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I hope so, you know, I mean, I hope too.
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I think that like comedy, like any skill can be
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used for good or bad, So you kind of have
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to be careful about like what you're what you're saying.
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And I also feel like comedy is so it exists
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in such a time capsule, Like it could be doing
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something amazing during the time that it's performed, and then
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five years later people go, how could you say this?
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You know, so it's this it's a tricky thing, like
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it exists only in the time that it's Yeah, it
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should be almost graded for the time that it's performed
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and then left for dead, because two years can go
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by and you go, none of this applies anymore.
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Do you think making evergreen comedy is like possible or no?
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I mean, there's some things that stay funny, but it
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doesn't stay funny for everybody, you know what I mean.
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There's one there is this one sketch that I did
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talk about in the book, this one sketch Clownpenis Dot
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fart that I think is the funniest and it just
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stays funny. I think, like farts, farts stay funny forever.
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You know, I was gonna say, silly. There's some inherent
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silliness that is like farts and.
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Burps, stepping on a rake and slipping on a banana.
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Feel yes, yes, I my favorite videos on the internet.
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If nobody's badly injured, are people falling down? I just
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I just think it's.
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I gotta send you this one. I gotta send you
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this one then, because I saw one today where somebody
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was trying to do box jumps on and he just
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like hits the wall and falls onto a trash and
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then falls on the floor with weights in his hands.
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And I'm like, I watched this thing like forty times.
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It was like the first time I smiled yesterday. It
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was so funny. It was so I.
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Fine, it's the only thing now, Sadly, I need to
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like up my silliness. But that makes me like laugh
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until I cry. Yes, is people falling?
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Yes?
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Now there's a vine of someone from way back when
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and they're trying to shovel their driveway and they just
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are slipping for thirty forty five seconds.
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No, exactly the video you're talking about, and it's so good.
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Yes, Yeah, I need that projected onto my gravestone. Yeah,
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it's brilliant. When you do your first stand up set,
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what is it like, before, during, and after. That's just
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something that I just think I would have a tremendously
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difficult time ever doing. So I'm wondering what's going through
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your mind.
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So I remember specifically being in this parking lot of
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the coffee shop in Austin. My best friend was like,
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you got to do it. And I called up another
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friend of mine who was a stand up at the time,
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and I was like, I can't do this, Like I'm
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I just signed up and I can't do it. I
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can't do it, and I'm like about to cry, and
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he was like, all right, so don't do it. He's like,
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nobody's gonna know if you don't do it. For some reason,
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that just like pissed me off enough to make me
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do it. I think there's something inherent in every stand
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up's brain that's like, you know, it's not that it
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doesn't scare you. We just we're afraid, but we just
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do it anyway. There's this thing that it's like touching
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a hot stove. Somebody's like, don't touch that. We're gonna
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be like, don't tell me not to do that, you
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know what I mean, Yeah, that's just what it is.
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I did it today. I was sitting I was having
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coffee and the person sitting with me was like, don't
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eat that. It was like Turkish coffee. And I thought
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he was saying like, don't try that. But you're like,
279
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you're not like that, and I was like, well, I'm
280
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gonna decide if I don't like it. And then I
281
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found and I took a big bite out of it.
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He's like, what are you doing? And I was like,
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I'm trying it. You said not to try it, Now
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I want to try it. He goes, it's literally just
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it's a spice. It's a spice cube. You're supposed to
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like put it in your coffee and stir it. It's
287
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not for eating. He was telling me. It wasn't for eating,
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but I just I don't know. It's like something in
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my brain is like, no, fuck you. I can't even
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do a workout class. If I do a workout class
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and they're like, okay, try this this way, I'm like,
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I signed up for this, and I still am. I
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don't want you telling me what to do. So I
294
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think it was just that desire to just like say
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fuck you, I'm gonna do it. I needed somebody to
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be like, well, don't do it. I needed that dare
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And then I did it and it was like it
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was bad, you know. I mean it was not good.
299
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But I got one laugh and I and I got
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off stage on a laugh. So I walked away being like,
301
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well I got off on a laugh, so I'm already good,
302
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you know. And it's like that's what you do. You
303
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just sort of lie to yourself. You reach for the
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delusional piece of hope that you can find, and then
305
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you hold on to that and you go like, this
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is a sign that I'm supposed to be doing this. Yeah,
307
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I think that's I think that's what kept me going.
308
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You said two things that really struck me as a creative.
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The thing of like needing to touch the hot stove,
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even though it is like I said that to someone
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yesterday where I've had kind of a tumultuous life, but
312
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like a lot of it was like man versus self,
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and a lot of it was me knowing that I
314
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just need to try it from I need to see
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the top for myself. I need to get tattooed and
316
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know that see if it's for me. I need to
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dye my hair purple and pink and orange. I have
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to do all the stuff. I mean, those are like
319
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the lighter things, like I have to do all this
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stuff so that I know that what I want to
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do and what I don't want to do. And I
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also think as creatives that idea of well if I
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if I don't try, no one will know I didn't
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try can also be used as a way that people
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kind of talk themselves out of trying because they're like, well,
326
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you know, and I think it. But it can be
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used like you used it in like a really powerful
328
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it's like a dare or something.
329
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Yeah, yeah, nobody's gonna notice you if you don't try.
330
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That was kind of like how I heard it, and
331
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I was like, well, they're gonna notice me, you know what.
332
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I mean, that's what I mean. That's like, that's that
333
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wiring that I agree with you want because I feel
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like other people would be like, oh, you're right, thank you.
335
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No one's going to know I'm going to quit.
336
00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:09.000
Yeah, I can walk away. Yeah. I mean I've gotten
337
00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:11.759
into a lot of trouble because of that thinking as well.
338
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Yes I would, I would agree with that for myself, Like,
339
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but I think I.
340
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Was it was it trouble if I can't point to
341
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anything that didn't work out in the end, even the
342
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:26.960
shit that didn't work out that worked.
343
00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:32.000
Out, yeah, yeah, redirection Yeah yeah, so it's like making
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your own curriculum, right basically exactly. Yeah, So how do
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we get from that one laugh? To then writing at SNL.
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I was in this state of mind and in this
347
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place in my life where I was like kind of
348
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looking for any sort of direction from outside of myself.
349
00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:55.119
You know, I was really lost. But the benefit of
350
00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:58.240
being really lost is that you're you're kind of open
351
00:19:58.359 --> 00:20:02.559
to suggestion, and yeah, sometimes that can lead to you
352
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:05.039
like joining a cult and is comedy a little bit
353
00:20:05.079 --> 00:20:08.319
of a cult maybe, But I did. I kind of
354
00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:12.960
just found my way back. I just kept going back
355
00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:15.440
because it was like the only community that I really had.
356
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I just I couldn't really stay away from it. And
357
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then I decided like, oh, I'm going to get serious
358
00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:24.720
about this. And then once I decided I'm going to
359
00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:29.000
pursue this for real, I started asking for advice, you know,
360
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I started asking people who were better at it than
361
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:36.720
I was, like what I should do. But I was
362
00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:39.039
just asking anybody who would listen, where do I go
363
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:41.240
if I want to get here, if I want to
364
00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:43.599
get to like Montreal, where do I go? What am
365
00:20:43.640 --> 00:20:47.640
I doing wrong right now? What can I change? And
366
00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:51.119
I would just take their advice and then implement it.
367
00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:55.720
And so like four years in, I got this audition
368
00:20:55.799 --> 00:21:01.720
from Montreal and they were doing they were like interviewing
369
00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:05.359
before the auditions, and it turned out that they were
370
00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:10.039
shooting this documentary called Inside Jokes and it was for Amazon,
371
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:13.559
and I ended up getting a callback from Montreal and
372
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then they followed me leading up to that callback. So
373
00:21:17.559 --> 00:21:19.680
like the sets that I would run leading up to
374
00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:23.720
that callback, and then the time waiting between the callback
375
00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:25.680
and getting the call that I was going to go,
376
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and then the festival and everything after that. It just
377
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:34.240
kind of happened. And then once I got that, and
378
00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:36.000
once I got to Montreal, I was like, oh shit,
379
00:21:36.839 --> 00:21:38.759
this whole time I've been thinking like this was the
380
00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:41.880
goal and I'm here now, and if I don't start
381
00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:44.839
thinking about what's next, I'm just going to leave here
382
00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:48.400
and be like, well that was it. So I started
383
00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:50.920
scrambling while I was there to like find a manager
384
00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:53.759
and take advantage of the time that I was there.
385
00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:56.000
I got a great manager. I'm still with him to
386
00:21:56.000 --> 00:22:02.240
this day. Yeah. He's seen me through a long term relationship,
387
00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:05.119
a breakup, a dead dog, a marriage, you know what
388
00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:07.319
I mean. Like it's like, in a way, he's like
389
00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:10.319
the only man that's like stuck around in my life,
390
00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:13.400
you know what I mean, Or that I've kept around
391
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:17.839
and he's been amazing, you know. So he was the
392
00:22:18.039 --> 00:22:19.880
person that when I said I wanted to shoot a
393
00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:22.000
special during the pandemic, he was like, great, let's make
394
00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:26.880
it happen. When Netflix reached out to do a smaller
395
00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:30.200
set for I forget what the name of the show
396
00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:33.960
was that I did, but it was like comics doing
397
00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:36.200
a bunch of smaller sets, and then I was like,
398
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.279
I'm not going to do this because I'm shooting a special,
399
00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:40.720
and they were like, what's tell us about the special?
400
00:22:40.759 --> 00:22:41.880
And I was like, well, it's going to be a
401
00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:45.119
two parter and the first part I'm going to be pregnant.
402
00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:46.640
In the second part, I'm going to be a year
403
00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:48.920
after I've given birth. And they were like, well buy it. Now,
404
00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:52.319
you do this and we'll do We'll do the special.
405
00:22:52.359 --> 00:22:55.839
And I was like, great. You just take every opportunity
406
00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:58.119
that comes your way, you know, you just say yes
407
00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:03.480
to everything and then and some things lead to results
408
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:07.160
in most things don't. A lot of it is luck.
409
00:23:07.519 --> 00:23:09.559
People won't say that, but like, a lot of it
410
00:23:09.640 --> 00:23:12.279
is luck. I do believe that. But I think for
411
00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:17.319
the most part, I've stayed sober so that eliminates me
412
00:23:17.519 --> 00:23:19.519
getting in my own way in a lot of ways.
413
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:23.839
Not entirely, but you know, so, I don't know, it's
414
00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:27.240
just kind of it's such an infuriating answer to give,
415
00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:28.640
but like it just happens.
416
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:30.920
I've been doing this for years, and I think it's
417
00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:33.880
the overall theme. I don't think I've ever talked to
418
00:23:33.880 --> 00:23:36.559
someone who's like, I had a ten step plan from
419
00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:39.599
the start and now I'm on step eight. It just
420
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:41.720
doesn't exist.
421
00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:45.039
Really, Yeah, you just listen to your own life and
422
00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:50.119
you just go wherever the love is and you're eventually
423
00:23:50.160 --> 00:24:00.119
you're like, oh, look, I'm pretty happy. I'm fairly happy.
424
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:05.839
What is one thing about both stand up, your stand
425
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:10.720
up career and writing for SNL that you didn't expect
426
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:14.200
when you were starting both out on both those jobs.
427
00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:17.680
What's one thing that I didn't expect?
428
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:20.319
Yeah, like when you pictured doing it.
429
00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:24.160
Yeah. So for SNL, one of the things that I
430
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:28.880
didn't expect was just how much I was going to
431
00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:35.599
love my coworkers. I really loved. I mean, coming from
432
00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:38.240
stand up, which is such a solo sport, you know,
433
00:24:38.920 --> 00:24:44.640
is really collaborative and taught me so much about the
434
00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:49.519
ways that I was limiting myself comedically, not by choosing
435
00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:52.599
to do it all alone. Everybody that you work with
436
00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:57.319
at SNL, it's like you're under so much pressure and
437
00:24:58.799 --> 00:25:01.839
you're working so close together, and there is so much
438
00:25:02.640 --> 00:25:07.799
you're coming in with, Like just your personal life is
439
00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:11.359
in shambles because there's nothing going on outside of it.
440
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:15.480
You're just in this building together all the time, and
441
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:18.039
so there's a lot of like family dynamics. There's jealousy,
442
00:25:18.119 --> 00:25:26.160
there's like competition, and then there's like forgiveness and there's reconciliation,
443
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:29.400
and you just become so close with these people, and
444
00:25:29.400 --> 00:25:31.880
there's moments where you really like break down in front
445
00:25:31.880 --> 00:25:34.440
of people and they're there for you and they get it.
446
00:25:34.759 --> 00:25:36.839
They get it in a way that nobody who hasn't
447
00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:40.759
worked there will get it, and you just, yeah, I
448
00:25:40.839 --> 00:25:44.039
just didn't expect that. And I still to this day,
449
00:25:44.119 --> 00:25:46.680
like if I meet somebody who has worked at SNL,
450
00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:52.559
whether they were editors or writers or cast there's something
451
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:56.880
about meeting someone who's worked there that's like comforting to
452
00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:59.839
me because it's like, oh, there's an understanding of like
453
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:04.759
we all have been for the same thing. And as
454
00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:08.680
far as stand up goes, all of it, I didn't
455
00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:12.519
expect any of what happened to me to happen. I
456
00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:17.559
wanted it, but I didn't expect it. So I kind
457
00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:23.400
of sometimes I'll like look at what I've ended up accomplishing,
458
00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:27.400
and it feels like I didn't even do it, you know,
459
00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:32.680
it feels like, WHOA, this is not what I thought.
460
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:35.079
None of this is what I thought it would be.
461
00:26:35.799 --> 00:26:42.359
I really genuinely thought that I would pursue this and
462
00:26:44.359 --> 00:26:48.920
at most be like a road comic or like a
463
00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:52.680
cruise comic or something, and that would be like I
464
00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:54.720
would be poor, but I would be happy, and I
465
00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:55.480
would be you know.
466
00:26:55.559 --> 00:26:58.960
I like to ask everyone if there's a time, and
467
00:26:59.079 --> 00:27:01.319
I mean you literally he wrote a book about it,
468
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:04.279
so you can even pick one of those stories. But
469
00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:08.200
in your career where you're doing something in the pursuit
470
00:27:08.319 --> 00:27:10.680
of your ultimate goal and you have this out of
471
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:12.839
body moment where you're like, I can't believe that this
472
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:15.200
is what I have to do in order to achieve
473
00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:17.039
what I really want to be doing.
474
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:22.720
Oh my god, there's so many of those. I mean,
475
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:26.680
there's so many of those that like, no, I remember
476
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:32.079
being picked up at an airport in like somewhere in
477
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:35.680
the South I forget, but I remember them being like,
478
00:27:35.799 --> 00:27:38.079
just look for a white van, and I was like
479
00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:42.799
a white van, a windowless white van, and I'm just
480
00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:47.519
like getting in this van with a guy who he
481
00:27:47.559 --> 00:27:49.440
could work for the club. He could not work for
482
00:27:49.480 --> 00:27:51.559
the club. I mean, everything is on the internet, so
483
00:27:51.680 --> 00:27:54.279
like anybody could walk up to me and be like, hey,
484
00:27:54.319 --> 00:27:57.359
I'm here to take you to wherever, and I'd be like, okay,
485
00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:00.240
you know, and now it's not like that, but it
486
00:28:00.359 --> 00:28:02.599
used to be like that. I would just get in
487
00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:08.319
a van with someone and be driven to a hotel
488
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:10.799
and I just look at it. I go like, if
489
00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:13.440
I had told my parents, they'd be like, what are
490
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:19.480
you talking about? So yeah, there's moments like that and
491
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:23.440
still on the road where like I you know, I've
492
00:28:23.480 --> 00:28:26.519
had people come up to me after shows that like
493
00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:30.799
took offense to a joke and they're crying. Oh, and
494
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:34.920
I'm sitting there like I have no idea how to
495
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:36.839
get out of this conversation, you know what I mean,
496
00:28:37.240 --> 00:28:40.599
I have no idea how to Like, there's nothing I
497
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:43.960
could say because I already did it. There's nothing I
498
00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:47.119
could say to make this person feel better. They just
499
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:49.640
need to be heard, and I'm just sitting there for
500
00:28:49.720 --> 00:28:52.119
like forty minutes. I remember a couple of weeks ago,
501
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:54.240
this girl came up to me after the show. She's crying.
502
00:28:54.799 --> 00:28:58.039
She's like, I loved everything you did, but this one joke,
503
00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:00.440
and she just started saying like, you know you can't
504
00:29:00.519 --> 00:29:04.079
joke about that. I'm like, all right, well I did
505
00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:06.359
you know. I don't know what to tell you because
506
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:13.759
I did joke about it and it worked. Like I'm
507
00:29:13.799 --> 00:29:17.839
not changing the bit, you know, I if there's a
508
00:29:17.880 --> 00:29:19.920
way for me to change it so that it doesn't
509
00:29:19.960 --> 00:29:23.599
upset people, I will. And I've looked at like ways
510
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:26.200
to like tweak that because it doesn't it doesn't land
511
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:30.200
on deaf ears. I don't want something to bum somebody out.
512
00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:33.759
I never want somebody to leave a show crying, Like
513
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:38.960
that's the opposite of what I want. But it's it's tricky,
514
00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:41.960
you know. It's like one of those things where I'm like, damn,
515
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.359
all right, well, usually I read this kind of shit
516
00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:47.960
on like the Internet, but here it is. It's like
517
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:50.480
the comment section is just alive and well in front
518
00:29:50.519 --> 00:29:53.519
of my face. And it turns out the internet feels
519
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:56.880
like a warm hug compared to that, because that's that's
520
00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:58.480
just how do I.
521
00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:01.720
But here's the thing, Like there's been times where I've
522
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:04.319
like listened to something or been and you and you
523
00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:06.480
go like, oh, I didn't love that, and like maybe
524
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.319
it's been upsetting, like even maybe on a deep level,
525
00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:14.200
but I don't. I would never because everyone's just doing
526
00:30:14.240 --> 00:30:17.559
their individual thing, and I would never go up and
527
00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:20.759
say like, I'm a huge fan, but when you said
528
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:23.680
this thing about nine to eleven, because then it's like
529
00:30:24.039 --> 00:30:26.880
where do. Where does it? Where does my involvement in
530
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:29.079
trying to tweak things so that I don't get upset
531
00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:33.240
end because then I'm gonna be taking everyone And so
532
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:35.640
I'm just like I just have to know that I
533
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:37.559
might I don't know.
534
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:41.400
Yeah, it sort of is just like a massive At
535
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:43.480
a certain point, it gets to this like point where
536
00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:45.799
you're like, you just don't have boundaries, you know what
537
00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:48.160
I mean, Like you just don't have like boundaries. But
538
00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:52.400
they don't really see you as like sometimes people watch
539
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:54.200
your show and then they don't really see you as
540
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:56.799
like a person. They see you as like a performer.
541
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:00.240
And that's and that that I think is where it
542
00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:05.680
gets a little wonky, because they don't really understand that
543
00:31:05.799 --> 00:31:09.279
like what they're doing is like affecting you emotionally. They're
544
00:31:09.279 --> 00:31:13.519
just trying to change the product that they saw on stage,
545
00:31:14.200 --> 00:31:17.759
and and so you just sort of have to like
546
00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:24.039
divorce yourself from from taking any of that personally.
547
00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:27.680
Yeah, because then it's like, imagine you see a Broadway
548
00:31:27.680 --> 00:31:29.240
play and then you're like, I need to get in
549
00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:32.319
touch with Stephen Sondheim because I need him to know that.
550
00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:36.240
It's just like where does that? Yeah, where does this
551
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:38.000
where does this end?
552
00:31:39.559 --> 00:31:39.759
Right?
553
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:46.200
If you had to define the phrase making it, that
554
00:31:46.279 --> 00:31:48.880
person's made it, I've made it. I want to make it.
555
00:31:49.119 --> 00:31:51.519
What does that mean to you?
556
00:31:51.519 --> 00:31:54.799
You know, it's funny because I saw I saw the
557
00:31:54.920 --> 00:31:57.440
name of this podcast, and I thought, oh, it's like
558
00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:02.039
how you make something, how you make a thing? Like
559
00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:06.279
I hear make it, and I'm like, you're making a thing.
560
00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:12.839
So like it's very simple to me. It's just creation
561
00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:16.119
of something. I know that it can be interpreted as
562
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:24.319
like yeah, public approval or public acclaim, but I I
563
00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:29.640
nothing that I've ever made. The public acclaim part of
564
00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:34.000
it is not the part of it that is rewarding
565
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:38.559
to me. To me, the best part of making something
566
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:41.559
is just making it, even the parts where you're like
567
00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:45.319
why am I making this? That's the best part. It's
568
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:48.000
and also like right after you finish it, when you
569
00:32:48.039 --> 00:32:51.079
finish it and you're like here it is, and you
570
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:55.480
just give it to people. I enjoy that too. A
571
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:58.240
book's a little bit different because you know, I've never
572
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:00.680
made a book. This is like my first book, so
573
00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:05.799
I so hearing what people think about it is really nice.
574
00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:09.559
Like hearing what it's doing for people is really nice
575
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:13.759
and that part of it, I've never I don't know.
576
00:33:13.839 --> 00:33:17.039
I guess with comedy you have laughs and so you're like,
577
00:33:17.079 --> 00:33:21.119
well that's you know what I mean. But with a book,
578
00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:23.920
it's such a slow burn, and people you don't often
579
00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:26.519
reach out to an author, but I keep encouraging people.
580
00:33:26.599 --> 00:33:28.720
I'm like to reach out to me. I'm not your
581
00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:32.799
average author. I want to be sitting behind you reading
582
00:33:32.839 --> 00:33:35.680
it over your shoulder, to see the parts that you're
583
00:33:35.720 --> 00:33:37.799
laughing at and to see the parts that make you cry,
584
00:33:37.839 --> 00:33:39.880
and to see that. But yeah, to answer your question,
585
00:33:41.240 --> 00:33:44.039
making it to me just means like making the thing.
586
00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:47.640
I love that answer so much. Is the first time
587
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:51.359
anyone's ever said that, And it's very optimistic to me
588
00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:53.799
in a way that the.
589
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:56.279
Most pessimistic optimist you'll ever meet.
590
00:33:56.400 --> 00:34:00.319
But yeah, because to me, it's like such a it's
591
00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:02.400
it's the glass half full in a way of look
592
00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:05.079
what this can become, rather than I need this to
593
00:34:05.200 --> 00:34:06.920
be like this specifically.
594
00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:09.280
Yeah, So I really.
595
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:12.679
Like that if your career was a book, huh, well
596
00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:18.760
now it kind of is, and this moment was a chapter,
597
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:24.840
what would the chapter title be? Damn, you can take
598
00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:25.280
your time.
599
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:28.880
Well, yeah, I guess I have to. I just keep
600
00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:32.599
thinking of wind Dex for some reason. It's because I
601
00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:35.000
feel like, you know, when you get out of the
602
00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:40.199
shower and you like wipe the you wipe the mirror,
603
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:43.159
and you're like, yeah, look at that person, look at
604
00:34:43.199 --> 00:34:45.760
you all brand new, Like That's kind of how I feel.
605
00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:48.960
With the release of the book, there's this I kind
606
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:53.719
of get to drop the any any bullshit. There is
607
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:59.480
a comfort to hiding behind jokes, and I've always really
608
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:04.440
enjoyed that. I think there's something really nice too about
609
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:07.239
getting in front of an audience that's read the book
610
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:10.800
because they understand that you are like a full person,
611
00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:16.039
that there's experience behind these jokes, and that there's real
612
00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:20.800
human experiences behind them, and that you can joke about
613
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:25.519
them because you've lived it. And if you're ready to
614
00:35:25.599 --> 00:35:28.480
laugh at that, then they'll they're more ready to laugh
615
00:35:28.599 --> 00:35:32.840
with you. I think it's just like adding context to
616
00:35:32.840 --> 00:35:36.880
to who I've been on a on a more public level.
617
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:43.559
So yeah, it's it's to me, it's like this not
618
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:50.119
necessarily a clean slate, but just like a new perspective
619
00:35:51.559 --> 00:35:54.480
both from me and also like of me.
620
00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:57.800
Yeah I like that a lot.
621
00:35:58.519 --> 00:36:02.880
Yeah, Yeah, I don't know if I gave you a title. Really,
622
00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:07.000
but there's something in there, something there, there's something in there.
623
00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:09.599
Yeah. I think it's always interesting to hear what the
624
00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:13.199
first thing that comes to people's mind is, because sometimes
625
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:15.360
they're sitting here for like five ten minutes and they're
626
00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:17.840
like scratching their chin, and then other times they just
627
00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:18.559
yell a word.
628
00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:23.400
Yeah, yeah, I'm like windex it's like clearing a windshield
629
00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:25.039
or something, right, clearing a mirror.
630
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:27.559
Is there something in particular that you hope people take
631
00:36:27.559 --> 00:36:29.079
away from the book.
632
00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:32.039
I want people to know that just because you become
633
00:36:32.079 --> 00:36:38.599
a mother doesn't mean that you're no longer an individual.
634
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:42.800
I think there's something that we do to women who
635
00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:48.000
become moms where we're kind of like, all right, see
636
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:54.079
you in eighteen years, and we write them off, but
637
00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:58.400
we also throw all of this empty praise at them,
638
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:03.960
which doesn't mean anything. You know, you could be drowning
639
00:37:04.119 --> 00:37:06.760
as a mom and people will be like, look at
640
00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:09.960
what a good swimmer you are, you know, and you're like, no,
641
00:37:10.119 --> 00:37:14.480
help me, you know, help me, and people go and
642
00:37:14.760 --> 00:37:17.159
there's all kinds of things people will say to you.
643
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:19.280
Then they'll be like, well, you chose this, you know,
644
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.000
and it's like I did choose this. I chose this
645
00:37:22.639 --> 00:37:28.119
because it was part of my experience that I you know,
646
00:37:28.119 --> 00:37:31.880
and I was also like really lied to and told
647
00:37:32.039 --> 00:37:34.119
that it was like the greatest thing I could do.
648
00:37:35.400 --> 00:37:40.119
If that's true, fucking show it. I think we forget
649
00:37:40.159 --> 00:37:46.400
that women when they become mothers are still women that
650
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:51.480
are like looking for there were people that want fulfillment
651
00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:56.599
and creative fulfillment and emotional fulfillment. And I think we
652
00:37:56.679 --> 00:38:00.239
even forget ourselves sometimes in the in the demands of
653
00:38:00.239 --> 00:38:05.280
of what motherhood is. So yeah, I really hope that
654
00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:10.679
that people will look at mothers in a different light,
655
00:38:11.280 --> 00:38:15.679
in a way that's like your life isn't over because
656
00:38:15.719 --> 00:38:18.039
you become a mom. It's just a choice that you
657
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:20.159
made the same way that you would pick a job.
658
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:24.079
It was kind of radicalizing to me the way what
659
00:38:24.559 --> 00:38:29.079
motherhood did. It just it radicalized me. I was like,
660
00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:33.480
this is you know, I knew that we had a
661
00:38:33.519 --> 00:38:37.239
long way to go with equality, but like it's like
662
00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:39.840
a joke, Like when you become a mom, you go like, oh,
663
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:43.119
this is a fucking joke. Because not only are women
664
00:38:43.159 --> 00:38:47.480
criticized for not having children and then not believed when
665
00:38:47.519 --> 00:38:50.519
they're told when they say, oh, no, I'm happy without kids,
666
00:38:50.920 --> 00:38:53.480
then all of a sudden, people go like, yeah, but you,
667
00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:56.119
but they won't believe you. And then you do have
668
00:38:56.159 --> 00:39:00.199
a child. And if you say anything is if if
669
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:04.360
you speak ill of any of the experience of motherhood,
670
00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:09.679
it's automatically assumed that you that you don't love your
671
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:15.559
child and that you don't appreciate your child. It's like, no, no, no,
672
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:20.800
my child is the best part of motherhood. The job
673
00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:28.639
is ghetto. The job is fucking trash. And it's not
674
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:33.480
because I don't enjoy being her mom. It's because the
675
00:39:33.559 --> 00:39:38.280
system is set up two make it impossible for me
676
00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:41.960
to thrive in motherhood and in my life at the
677
00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:45.360
same time. So that's the thing that I really wanted
678
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:48.320
to speak on that in a in an indirect way,
679
00:39:48.679 --> 00:39:54.280
but just on a personal level, because I think it's
680
00:39:54.840 --> 00:39:56.400
I think we just need to talk about it.
681
00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.280
Yeah, I've had I've had a conversation with a few
682
00:40:00.280 --> 00:40:04.159
of my girlfriends who have kids is very similar. Yeah,
683
00:40:04.360 --> 00:40:08.639
of just I did not expect this at all. Also
684
00:40:08.719 --> 00:40:11.440
would die for their kids, but are like, what the
685
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:13.480
hell has happened? Like what's going on?
686
00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:15.679
Yeah? No, I mean, it's they're not and they're not
687
00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:18.360
crazy like that. The thing about it is that they'll
688
00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:22.280
feel crazy. They're not. We all feel like this. It's
689
00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:27.800
anyone who's like trying to maintain a career and have
690
00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:32.960
a child and and have a thriving marriage peak two
691
00:40:33.079 --> 00:40:39.079
at most. You know, this is why comedians are the
692
00:40:39.079 --> 00:40:41.280
worst dinner guests. You know, it's like.
693
00:40:44.039 --> 00:40:48.079
We're just I worked with I've worked with stand ups
694
00:40:48.119 --> 00:40:52.079
for years and like even the times although the last
695
00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:54.920
time I interviewed Mark Maron, he had I want to
696
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:56.320
say he was with a friend, but he was with
697
00:40:56.360 --> 00:40:59.000
the director of the film. But they were like kind
698
00:40:59.039 --> 00:41:01.119
of giggly and stuff, and I was like, this is
699
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:05.360
so different from the other times I've talked to him. Yes, yeah,
700
00:41:05.400 --> 00:41:07.280
but he was all like making jokes and stuff, and
701
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:10.760
I was like, I'm just gonna let them. Yeah, yeah,
702
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:16.039
you're not a performing seal, right, Yeah, that's a faceted person.
703
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:19.559
But but yeah, I think that's lovely. And I'm not
704
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:22.400
someone who has kids or is planning on having kids,
705
00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:24.039
but I connected with a lot of parts of your
706
00:41:24.039 --> 00:41:26.320
book regardless of that, So there is that.
707
00:41:26.559 --> 00:41:28.760
Yeah. I hope that too. I hope that anyone who
708
00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:34.000
doesn't want kids is affirmed in their decision from reading
709
00:41:34.039 --> 00:41:37.679
it because it is something that like, Yeah, I was like,
710
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:40.960
I want anybody who is dealing with the indecision that
711
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:44.280
I was dealing with to be like to have some
712
00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:46.559
clarity on this because I was looking up I was
713
00:41:46.599 --> 00:41:49.519
reading books about like why I did, Why I chose
714
00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:51.280
not to have kids was like a book that I read.
715
00:41:51.320 --> 00:41:58.320
What is it called nutrition or what is it called
716
00:41:58.320 --> 00:42:01.320
where the transition into mother? Hold on a second, let
717
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:02.079
me find the word.
718
00:42:02.039 --> 00:42:04.199
What to expect when you're not expecting.
719
00:42:04.199 --> 00:42:09.239
Yes, matressence. I read that book. It was called matrescence,
720
00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:13.440
and it was like about a woman who about the
721
00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:17.519
experience of transitioning from not having a child to like
722
00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:23.599
becoming a mother and what that life transition is. And nobody,
723
00:42:23.719 --> 00:42:27.159
even Apple doesn't even recognize that as a word. But
724
00:42:27.239 --> 00:42:30.320
it's you know, women are fifty percent of the population
725
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:35.519
and that's and it's one of the biggest transitions you
726
00:42:35.599 --> 00:42:41.079
can experience hormonally, other than adolescence. We have entire books
727
00:42:41.280 --> 00:42:45.559
about adolescence. We have we have health classes.
728
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:45.559
You know what I mean.
729
00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:49.599
We but like when it comes to the transitioning in
730
00:42:49.599 --> 00:42:53.280
a motherhood and postpartum. It's like there's so much misunderstanding
731
00:42:53.320 --> 00:42:56.920
about it. So I was reading everything and I was like,
732
00:42:57.079 --> 00:42:59.599
let me just write the most honest, fucking shit I
733
00:42:59.599 --> 00:43:00.760
can write about this.
734
00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:04.880
You know, it's really great. I really enjoyed it.
735
00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:07.960
Thank you. Tell everybody you know about it, because nobody
736
00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:08.719
reads anymore.
737
00:43:10.039 --> 00:43:10.719
I love reading.
738
00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:12.599
I mean, I don't know if you've been watching Love Island,
739
00:43:12.599 --> 00:43:16.480
but it's like, please open the schools. It's epotome.
740
00:43:16.920 --> 00:43:22.320
And then what did that other girl say instead of complimentary.
741
00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:25.639
No pomp promise? She said, oh yeah, instead.
742
00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:29.000
Of compromise, and then he said epitome instead of epitome,
743
00:43:29.119 --> 00:43:29.800
And then there's.
744
00:43:29.639 --> 00:43:33.000
Like he said, I'm going to emerge myself in this experience.
745
00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:37.000
It's like, oh my god, Like these kids definitely finished
746
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:38.400
high school on zoom.
747
00:43:38.280 --> 00:43:41.000
During during COVID. Yeah, there was something else where. He
748
00:43:41.159 --> 00:43:43.280
just says a lot of they say a lot of
749
00:43:43.440 --> 00:43:47.880
Michael Scott phrases that don't exist. Yeah, Like they're like,
750
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:50.559
you almost got it, but that was the wrong last
751
00:43:50.599 --> 00:43:51.599
half of the sentence, but.
752
00:43:51.679 --> 00:44:07.239
You're somehow way off. Yeah,