Host Conversation: A Broad Conversation About Spiritual Formation

In this conversation, Jason brings Steven into the conversation to explore spiritual formation through the lenses of experimentation, habit formation, adaptive leadership, evangelism, and the long arc of becoming more like God. Steven shares how trying new practices—and even failing at them—has reshaped his prayer life, reduced anxiety, and opened space for genuine transformation. Jason reflects on spiritual formation as a lifelong journey rather than a single conversion moment, drawing from campus ministry, the Engel scale, and Eastern Orthodox ideas of theosis. Together they offer a refreshing, grace-filled vision of spiritual growth rooted in curiosity, patience, and the Spirit’s ongoing work in every person.

Key Ideas Discussed

• Experimentation as spiritual practice: Spiritual disciplines become transformative when approached as experiments—try something, reflect, adjust, try again.
• Moving beyond “I should” spirituality: Steven describes shifting from obligation-driven disciplines to practices that shape his inner life.
• Adaptive leadership and spiritual growth: Borrowing from Heifetz, Steven frames spiritual formation as iterative learning rather than static performance.
• Habit formation and spiritual maturity: How routines, triggers, rewards, and intentional practices can reshape thinking, behavior, and relationships.
• Anxiety and spiritual habits Steven: shares his Lenten practice of “giving up worrying about tomorrow” and how Scripture became a trigger for peace.
• Evangelism as spiritual formation: Jason reframes evangelism as helping people take the next step in their journey, not rushing them to baptism.
• The Engel scale and patient discipleship: People begin at different places; spiritual formation honors their starting point.
• Theosis and becoming Godlike: Jason reflects on Eastern Orthodox ideas of becoming like God and how they challenge perfectionism.
• Failure as a spiritual teacher: Both discuss how failure opens pathways to growth that success alone cannot.

Resources Mentioned

• Ronald Heifetz – Adaptive Leadership (referenced conceptually)
• Charles Duhigg – The Power of Habit
• James Clear – Atomic Habits (mentioned indirectly as “a lot of people have read”)
• Dallas Willard – writings on spiritual disciplines
• Richard Foster – writings on spiritual disciplines
• Engel Scale of Evangelism
• Eastern Orthodox theology – Theosis
• Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 6–7) – “Do not worry about tomorrow” and “Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect”
• Ted Lasso – quote attributed to Mark Twain: “Continuous improvement is better than delayed perfection.”