Overstreet Ducasse - Visual Storytelling from the School of Wu-Tang

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Where most artists probably get their inspiration from other artists.
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Definitely.
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Yeah.
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You know, I get my inspiration from music.
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You know, so I a self-proclaimed, you know, I went to the school of Wu Tang.
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Thanks so much for being with us on the podcast today over Street DuCoss.
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Thank you.
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I'm really looking forward to getting to know more about your work and where it comes from.
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So I really appreciate you stopping in today and hanging out with us.
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Thanks.
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So we a couple weeks ago, after we did Chip's show, we like walked around and we got to see some of your work that's up in the gallery here.
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I've been somewhat familiar with your work over the years and when you've shown, and and I'll talk later about when I like first found out about you and interesting about your reaction to that.
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But like we noticed, you know, that there's a lot of like meaning and heavy imagery that like tells a lot of story, there's a lot of message nested in all of these images.
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So I'm really interested in kind of like finding out about that.
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And I wonder, for the sake of our listeners, just like how would you describe your work?
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Probably the art of storytelling.
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Okay, yeah.
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Tell me more about that.
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Well, I mean, how it I believe how it really, really started was where most artists probably got their inspiration from other artists.
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Definitely.
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You know, I um I get my inspiration from music.
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You know, so I a self-proclaimed, you know, I went to the school of Wu Tang.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Oh yeah.
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Yeah.
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So really, yeah, that's pretty much how it started.
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I think when I first, you know, started drawing.
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I remember way back in like high school, I was in a class.
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It was like, I guess an AP art class or so, I think for the 10th, 11th.
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Where was that?
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Was that here or no?
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It was in Miami.
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Okay.
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Miami Jackson Senior High class of 95.
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Of course, named after Andrew Jackson.
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Right.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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Did they have some awful mascot like the Indian Killers or something?
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Was the school?
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Uh probably, but I don't remember.
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Okay, good.
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I don't remember.
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It probably hopefully they changed whatever it was.
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And you were you were born not in Miami.
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You were born in Haiti?
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Yes, I was born in Haiti, came to the United States when I was six years old.
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Okay.
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So I was here, you know, yeah, pretty much all my life.
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And then you went to Miami from there, and kind of like your childhood from then on was Miami till high school.
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Yep, and then yeah, all the way up to high school.
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And then after high school, I moved around a little bit.
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Like I spent like five years in Tallahassee.
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I think about maybe a year and a half in California.
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Where in California?
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It was Oceanside First and uh Los Angeles.
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Okay.
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Oh yeah.
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And then for about maybe two or so years, I did a lot of traveling.
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Right.
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Working for, you know, as a boilermaker and laborer for the union.
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Yeah.
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So I was traveling like from South Florida all the way to California.
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You know.
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Did you enjoy the travel at least?
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Not really.
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I don't really like to drive that much, but it was a good job though.
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Oh yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Lots of contemplation time on highways and byways.
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You know what?
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I think the thing that I liked about it, I think I it allowed me to, even though like we were working like in certain outages.
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Yeah.
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Because it's like one outage after another, and you get to choose.
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That's what I liked about it.
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Yeah.
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You have to choose where you want to go.
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Okay.
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They're all over the United States.
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Whenever they're having like a re uh refueling, a steam generator change out or all that kind of stuff.
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This is a highly technical job.
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You said boilermakers?
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Yes.
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What does that mean?
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I don't even I don't think I thought that was a cocktail.
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Uh it's like uh dude, I did that thing for so long ago.
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They mainly work in the condensers.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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So, you know, they work with tubes and pipes and fixing condensers and stuff like that.
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In like power stations, like industrial environments?
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In the nuclear power plants.
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Oh shit.
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I'm sorry, I must have missed that when you said it.
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And okay.
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Yeah.
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So I was at the time I was, I guess, a sub-journeyman.
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Okay.
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So I was uh, you know, studying to become a journeyman as a boilermaker.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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Were you producing art at any level during those years?
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Yeah, actually, that was the thing that I found very interesting.
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Is like uh there were certain outages that like it was a lot of work.
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I mean, well, I wouldn't say a lot of work.
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You had to physically be there.
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Right.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Right, right.
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It's a union job.
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Because realistically, I was thinking, oh my God.
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Like I worked with my father, he did construction.
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Okay.
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You know, he built homes, fix houses, but he built homes from like everything.
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The only thing that he didn't do was electrical work.
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Right.
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So from the foundation to the end of the house, like we built homes.
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Yeah.
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So he plums it, he foundation, all that everything.
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Okay.
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So from me working with him, and we're talking about you know, early 90s and stuff.
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Yeah.
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You know, we didn't have the heavy machinery and all that stuff.
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So, I mean, I was doing some real hard labor work in building homes.
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So when I joined the union, I was like, oh my God, this is like this is nothing.
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Like we're getting paid for nothing.
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Yeah.
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And uh, you know, it's like they can't make you, and you know, from having like horrible jobs prior to that, yeah.
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You know, like let's say if you work at a restaurant, if your job is to cook and it's slow, you know, they want you to go broom this place, go sweep this place.
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Nope, not with the union.
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Yeah, it's like if there's not something for you, it's not my job.
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It's not your job.
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Yeah.
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Are you still pro-union?
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Yeah, I'm still pro-union.
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When I did the primary vote recently, I just went and saw who endorsed which candidates.
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And that was one of the things.
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My my dad was an electrical union, so yeah, I know how important it is.
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Yeah, but as far as like doing artwork, I find it very interesting that even though like there were certain outages, yeah, that you know, let's say because we were traveling, so and the nuclear plant can't be in the residential area, right?
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So, you know, we have to get a hotel.
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So sometimes the hotel was about 45 minutes away from the job, so that's an hour and a half back and forth.
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And you know, you used to work 12 hours, sometimes seven days a week.
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And even within that amount of work every day, seven days a week, traveling back and forth, I still created a good amount of artwork.
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Wow.
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And what were were you were you painting?
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Were you doing drawing?
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What uh painting.
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Okay.
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Mostly.
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What kind of stuff were you painting?
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Were you painting the things you're seeing or are you painting ideas?
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Like what uh I remembered one of the series that I started working on and prior to the targets, this was I uh did a series on the age of Aquarius.
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Okay.
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And as I said, I'm inspired by music.
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And the reason for that was, you know, I liked that that song by the fifth dimension called The Donnie of Aquarius.
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Yeah.
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So I ended up doing at least a good 30 piece series on that.
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At least a good 30-piece series on that subject or that song.
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Awesome.
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Basically, we didn't have internet back then.
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So it was I was interpreting it based on whatever knowledge and the limited research that I had.
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So I created pieces basically describing what they were talking about.
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And from what I understood is that they were talking about astrology when the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligned with Mars.
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This was is the downing of the age of Aquarius.
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So, from based on my understanding of astrology, you know, I was like showing one of the paintings, it was called meditation.
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So it was a portrait of myself when I used to have actually long locks.
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Okay.
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And I was meditating in water, and my hair were 12 different strands that was taking the shape of clock.
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And each tip uh at the end of each tip had a different sign, you know, and then on one tip, uh, it was the clock because 12.
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Okay, yeah.
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Yeah, because of 12, and then on one tip it was the moon, and then the the which represent the seventh house, and then Jupiter and Mars uh were aligning.
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Also, the sign of Aries and Sagittarius was aligning.
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Pisces was going back into the water because that was the end of Pisces.
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Did it look kind of ancient?
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Like, did it come out looking sort of like a symbol that had been around for a long time and you were reinterpreting, even though you invented it?
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What do you mean?
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Like, did it look like uh like if I looked at the piece, would it like remind me of like uh Hindu?
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Like I was about to say, like a mini arms or you know what I mean?
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Like so maybe, maybe something like maybe something like Earth, Wind and Fire album without all the intricate details.
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Right, right.
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Yeah, and you did how many times?
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But it looked at more.
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I I think at that time a lot of people were comparing it more to Dolly.
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Okay, yeah, okay, so some surrealism in there and okay.
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Yeah.
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And yeah, I did uh at least a good 30 pieces with that series.
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Did any of your co-workers or bosses or any did they know you were painting during this?
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Were you like considered a weirdo being a boilermaker and a painter?
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Well, I'm sure I was considered a weirdo because for like I went to inner city school in Miami.
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So, you know, there were totally was mostly black and Hispanic.
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So was it a tough school?
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Yeah, I would say yeah, it was a tough school.
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So I'd never heard about the union.
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So when we started going traveling, it was just me, and I found out about this from a friend of mine's who I've known since elementary school.
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So it was just me, him, and maybe one other Haitian dude.
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Yeah, all three of us, and we were young too.
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Yeah, so when we go out traveling, we're like we're practically the only black people there with some of the people from Tennessee and with their fathers and they uncles and like they've known about this for years, they're generational, yeah.
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So of course, uh and I had long locks, you know.
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So I was and I was Haitian, so yeah, yeah, of course, I it that the art didn't need to stand out, you know what I'm saying?
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So there's a lot of other things going on.
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Yeah, so when someone finds out you're an artist, they like that tracks, yeah.
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Uh no, I didn't really, I don't recall really communicating with people like that.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Yeah, if we were like somebody that really, really knew me, then you know because you're sort of in a nomadic phase, right?
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You're just when I was there, yeah.
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When I was there, and this is probably why I created so many artwork when I was there, because I was in such a strange place that I really didn't need to be.
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Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
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You're having like stranger in a strange lane strictly for the money, yeah.
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You know what I'm saying?
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So are you glad you experienced all that though?
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Just to have it.
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Yeah, I'm glad that I experienced it, you know, to be able to make money and to be able to travel.
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And at the same time, I didn't have to work all year round.
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So I can go to work and I can chill for a few months, create some artwork, go right back to work, you know what I'm saying?
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Yeah, so it was it.
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I felt like it was, even though I didn't like the job, I think it was a very good balance in as far as being an artist.
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And I come from a very hard-working background, so I have no problem working and creating art.
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Yes.
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That's great.
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You'd like take that ethic, but like turn the energy towards your work, your the work that you have heart for, uh, and not just be like, I'm gonna waste all my energy killing myself.
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I mean, uh unfortunately though, the I would say the plant didn't produce any artwork.
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Like, as far as I was not inspired to create anything, although I do have some ideas in my head that I probably will do in the future.
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You know, sure, it still shapes you, you can't help it.
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Right.
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Oh, one of the inspirations that I might one of the artwork that I might create was when you go there, you realize like even like the uh I don't know how it is now, but or different places.
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But the trades are so segregated.
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Yep.
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And it's weird because even the hats that they the hard hats that they wear seems like it's segregated also.
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Oh my god, the personalities of how people work, you could see segregation.
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Yeah, there's like boss hats.
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Absolutely, and then there's not and then guess what the boss's hats are?
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Of course they're white, right?
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Guess what the the the so-called lowest, you know, I wouldn't say they are the lowest, but considered the one that considered the men most of the lowest, yeah.
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The lowest trade is a laborer, okay, right?
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And from when I was there, yeah, all the laborers were black.
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Black.
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I was about to say, don't say black, man.
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And then the uh the painters were Spanish, wow, and then you had the pipe fitters and the interest, you know, the electricians, and yeah, it was like, and then they used to treat the laborers badly, of course.
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Everyone treated me.
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Because the laborer was like almost like uh what you know, we would call Duke Boy.
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Right.
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Basically, they sleep with somebody with a with uh uh with an electrician or or let's say uh carpenter.
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Yeah, uh like carpenter mostly builds scaffolds and stuff like that.
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And you know, it's like, hey, labor, go fetch me out, whatever.
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Right.
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You know what I'm saying?
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Yeah, they do.
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Not even a name, yeah, exactly.
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Yeah, yeah.
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The little bit of uh and then you know, like the laborers, you know, they're like they're like, oh my god, there goes a white hat.
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You know, right, yes, in upstream.
00:16:09.069 --> 00:16:18.189
So let me take us on a little bit of a journey between well, so I'll start with like I think I told you this once before when we saw each other at like Mocha on the fly.
00:16:18.429 --> 00:16:27.230
But when I worked for Fogle, Lee Fogle at Fogle Fine Arts Gallery many years ago, I was just like a marketing person for her or whatever.
00:16:27.549 --> 00:16:41.149
And she told me that she that I think that you had come by or she had run into you, she found out about you somehow, and she showed me this piece that was like I think I thought it was pencil, it might have been pen and ink.
00:16:41.389 --> 00:16:46.269
And she told me you had done it in high school and it was of one of your teachers or something.
00:16:46.829 --> 00:16:54.669
But when I first saw it, I was kind of far away, and she was talking, and I turned and looked at it, and I in my mind thought it was a photograph.
00:16:54.990 --> 00:17:00.350
And then as I got closer to it, I realized that it was a drawing, and I was like, holy shit.
00:17:01.069 --> 00:17:15.069
And that was so intimate and representational, but still felt like it had expression and everything in it that it was fascinating to me, especially because you were a high schooler, I guess, when you did that.
00:17:15.150 --> 00:17:15.789
Do you remember that piece?
00:17:15.870 --> 00:17:16.269
I didn't make that.
00:17:16.509 --> 00:17:17.230
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
00:17:17.390 --> 00:17:18.110
Okay, yeah, yeah.
00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:39.230
It was it was a piece that I did in high school actually for during the APR class, we had these projects, it was called the concentration projects, where we had to come up with a theme and come up with like seven pieces, and then at the end of the year, it was I think it was sent to Savannah to be judged, and you would get a score from like one through five or so.
00:17:39.870 --> 00:17:46.350
And at the time, like I felt like my mind wasn't developed yet as far as telling stories.
00:17:46.670 --> 00:17:50.670
So the way that I would express myself was through the characters itself.
00:17:51.230 --> 00:17:56.910
So, you know, older people with wrinkles and stuff have deep character, you know what I'm saying?
00:17:57.150 --> 00:18:01.950
So that I think that was probably what that was what that was about basically.
00:18:02.190 --> 00:18:08.590
Me trying to find like some kind of way of expressing or telling a story, but not fully developed yet.
00:18:08.750 --> 00:18:08.910
Yeah.
00:18:09.070 --> 00:18:14.110
So I would look through to you know, expressive characters, sure old people.
00:18:14.350 --> 00:18:18.830
Yeah, that image that you're talking about later on in like 2006.
00:18:20.030 --> 00:18:24.590
No, 2000, yeah, yeah, 2006, which would be what 20 years or so.
00:18:24.910 --> 00:18:34.990
Uh we could we ended up me, Adrian Rose, and Roosevelt Watson, we ended up creating this group or this movement called the Depressionist movement.
00:18:35.470 --> 00:18:36.509
I remember this, right?
00:18:36.750 --> 00:18:39.950
And that image was used as the actual love.
00:18:42.030 --> 00:18:42.350
Yeah.
00:18:42.670 --> 00:18:48.430
What was the journey like from that sort of work to like the storytelling?
00:18:48.509 --> 00:18:57.070
You know, I'm curious about those pieces that help that that like that helped you like the all those travels and all of like these new pieces.
00:18:57.150 --> 00:19:02.269
How did you grow that muscle of becoming a storyteller beyond just the character?
00:19:02.670 --> 00:19:19.710
So, so now you know, I'm graduated and I'm living in Tallahassee, and you know, I've got friends, you know, you know, I'm out my my parents' house and stuff, you know, and I'm really getting into music, and one of my favorites, if well, my favorite is Wu-Tang.
00:19:20.110 --> 00:19:35.070
So I had uh two friends, we used to work together, and after work, we used to go to my house or Andrika's house, and we used to chill, and we used to listen to music all night.
00:19:35.230 --> 00:19:39.470
Yeah, and 99% of the time it was Wu Tang music.
00:19:39.710 --> 00:19:43.710
Okay, you know what was uh uh it was uh 36 chambers, yeah.
00:19:43.790 --> 00:19:46.830
Uh only built for Cuban links was the main one.
00:19:47.150 --> 00:19:48.269
That's Raekwon, right?
00:19:48.590 --> 00:19:52.750
Raekon, yeah, and Jiza, the liquid swords, yeah.
00:19:53.150 --> 00:19:57.150
Only built for Cuban links was definitely the highest rotation.
00:19:57.710 --> 00:19:58.110
Nice.
00:19:58.269 --> 00:20:10.590
So for me actually listening to this music and loving this music, and because there are nine individual members, I started drawing, you know, Wu-Tang like the Wu-Tang symbol.
00:20:10.670 --> 00:20:10.990
Yeah.
00:20:11.230 --> 00:20:20.750
And then I started drawing their members individually, and I started attaching characteristics to each and every member.
00:20:21.230 --> 00:20:32.750
You know, because they all had like different names and yeah, the chef to Bobby Digital to Noodles, to you know, they had so many different names and characteristics.
00:20:32.910 --> 00:20:40.509
So as I'm doing this, I'm real, I didn't know at the time, but I'm just developing way how to explain things.
00:20:40.750 --> 00:20:41.950
Yeah, you know what I'm saying?
00:20:42.110 --> 00:20:50.830
Yeah, so just because they had so many members and I'm trying to describe them through visual interpretation, I'm learning how to describe things, yeah.
00:20:51.070 --> 00:20:58.590
So, but then it gets even deeper because we're and then this was before the internet, so you couldn't Google what this was.
00:20:59.230 --> 00:21:08.910
So it got even deeper because initially I thought that like the way that they talked was just a New York slang, yeah, right?
00:21:09.150 --> 00:21:26.269
Yeah, but then a friend of mine's for some reason he was doing some research, he got a hold of this pamphlet, and it was like the supreme mathematics and the supreme alphabets and the 12 Jews, and then we started looking at it and we started studying, we still and then we realized wow, this is just not a slang.
00:21:26.430 --> 00:21:39.310
They are actually talking about a culture that started in the 1960s, around the same time as the flower movement, power, you know, inspired by the song from the fifth dimension.
00:21:39.470 --> 00:21:40.670
Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying?
00:21:40.750 --> 00:21:56.670
So it's that same era, and it was based, uh, it was based on Clarence X13, okay, which was a guy uh who started what is known as the nations of gods and earth, that is better known as the five percenters.
00:21:56.910 --> 00:21:59.870
Okay, so a lot of the Wu-Tang members were five percenters.
00:22:00.110 --> 00:22:11.230
So what they were saying, like peace God and knowledge be born, and all you know, and stuff the way that they talked, it was not just a slang, it was it was like a a culture that existed.
00:22:11.390 --> 00:22:34.670
Yeah, so once I learned about that, I was like, Oh my god, I started studying the alphabets, the numbers, the Jews, and then that created a completely different art, which actually started to change from more of I would say the Dali-esque style, yeah, more into like somewhat of a basquiat because I was writing and I was interpreting words and letters and stuff like that.
00:22:34.830 --> 00:22:39.470
Yeah, and creating language and symbology as absolutely, yeah.
00:22:40.110 --> 00:22:44.030
So we were talking about this a little bit at the beginning.
00:22:44.269 --> 00:22:49.870
The thing that I always feel about your work, even like the first time that I heard You're talking about it.
00:22:49.950 --> 00:23:01.550
I think it was just an open studio, and I'd been hanging out with Chip and I was in the hallway looking at his work, and I heard you just talking to people about some of your pieces, and there were so many dense layers and layers of meaning.
00:23:01.950 --> 00:23:09.950
And I wonder, like, how do all those complexities like come together in time for you to be like, okay, now I'm ready to paint those things together?
00:23:10.110 --> 00:23:14.990
Like, how does that how does all of those layers of story get in there?
00:23:15.230 --> 00:23:16.030
Oh, you know what?
00:23:16.190 --> 00:23:22.750
And that's another thing I would say that is uh that's a little different from a lot of artists.
00:23:22.990 --> 00:23:26.750
Most artists do a lot of sketching, I do a lot of writing.
00:23:26.990 --> 00:23:27.310
Okay.
00:23:27.630 --> 00:23:28.269
You know what I'm saying?
00:23:28.590 --> 00:23:29.470
So that's interesting.
00:23:30.190 --> 00:23:34.269
I've had notepads and notebooks that I keep information in.
00:23:34.590 --> 00:23:43.870
Like when I was living in California, I wrote about, and this was during the Wu-Tang era, I wrote about the 12 Jewels, right?
00:23:44.350 --> 00:23:53.550
And it was like eight years later, until you know, after I moved to Jacksonville, yeah, that I actually created the paint, uh, the painting called the 12 Jewels.
00:23:53.790 --> 00:23:56.350
So I keep them in, you know, in writing.
00:23:56.430 --> 00:24:01.150
And now because I have the phone, I write on my phone constantly.
00:24:01.550 --> 00:24:05.310
Yeah, I've got like a page just for art, yeah.
00:24:05.550 --> 00:24:11.630
Like jotting notes down, and sometimes it'll be a year, be two, three years until I actually create it.
00:24:11.790 --> 00:24:18.990
So by the time, and then what's beautiful about it too, sometimes the ideas start to merge together as time progresses.
00:24:19.070 --> 00:24:20.110
Like I might have another idea.
00:24:20.190 --> 00:24:22.830
I say, Oh my god, I was thinking about this, I was thinking about that.
00:24:22.990 --> 00:24:24.509
Let me put that together, you know?
00:24:24.670 --> 00:24:26.910
Yeah, so that's that's how it happens.
00:24:26.990 --> 00:24:38.910
It's just a lot, a lot of writing, a lot, a lot of thinking, yeah, a lot of meditating, a lot of uh sitting in front of the piece and not doing anything, just like trying to figure it out.
00:24:39.070 --> 00:24:57.070
Yeah, you know, I'm actually I'm actually amazed sometimes, even though I do a lot of writing, and I'm when I'm actually ready to go and put it down and start actually creating it, and I think I know what I'm doing, something new emerges, then I'm like, oh my god, I had no idea what I was doing.
00:24:57.150 --> 00:25:00.110
Yeah, like this is way greater, it's an amazing feeling.
00:25:00.190 --> 00:25:07.390
It is way greater than what I thought about, what I wrote, and I could like how could I not have seen this?
00:25:07.870 --> 00:25:08.110
Right.
00:25:08.269 --> 00:25:10.910
How am I creating something that I'm surprised by?
00:25:11.150 --> 00:25:13.230
Yeah, like yeah, it surprises me.
00:25:13.390 --> 00:25:14.030
Yeah.
00:25:14.910 --> 00:25:17.470
I I love that sensation so much.
00:25:17.630 --> 00:25:19.790
I totally, I totally dig that.
00:25:19.870 --> 00:25:23.150
I wonder, like, there's no way though, right?
00:25:23.310 --> 00:25:27.950
Like you've put so much thought and and you've produced, you know, writing is thinking.
00:25:28.110 --> 00:25:47.390
So every time you're writing, you're thinking through it again and another piece of it, and in all of these different instances, and then you're that that all gets layered in there, even if it's even if it comes out as one thing, and then it surprises you because you're like, oh yeah, that does it is saying something, I believe, but that surprised me the way it said it, or whatever.
00:25:47.550 --> 00:25:58.269
So if somebody new comes to your work and looks at it, there's no chance if they don't know you and they don't get to have that conversation for them to unlock all that story, right?
00:25:58.590 --> 00:26:08.350
That's true, but you know, in some of the more complex one, but I've been surprised sometimes where somebody comes in and it's like, oh my god, I completely get it.
00:26:08.430 --> 00:26:11.550
And they tell it and they explain it and they completely get it.
00:26:12.190 --> 00:26:12.990
That's what I was wondering.
00:26:13.070 --> 00:26:19.630
If you get these connection moments that are surprising because it's not on the face, like I know what this is about, you know, right?
00:26:19.790 --> 00:26:20.430
Yeah, yeah.
00:26:20.509 --> 00:26:21.710
It's it surprises me.
00:26:21.870 --> 00:26:31.630
Sometimes people get it, but yeah, it does require some type of interpretation from myself through maybe talking through or artist statement.
00:26:33.070 --> 00:26:33.550
Yeah.
00:26:33.950 --> 00:26:42.030
I had a question about that because when first met you a couple weeks ago, and I was like, Oh, yeah, I really like some of your stuff, and you were like, Well, that's what this means.
00:26:42.269 --> 00:26:48.190
And I was talking to John about earlier, like a lot of artists are like, I'm not I'm not gonna tell you what my shit means.
00:26:48.430 --> 00:27:00.030
One, maybe they want you to, you know, bring your own interpretation to it, or two, I don't know, maybe it doesn't mean anything, but you were just like, Well, this is this, this is this, like right.
00:27:00.190 --> 00:27:05.310
The targets meant something, the shoes meant something, like football and all that stuff.
00:27:05.390 --> 00:27:15.390
And so, I mean, do you think that you're in like a minority for people that will just go, well, that's what this means, or did we just get a peek behind the curtain?
00:27:15.710 --> 00:27:28.269
I think I might be in a minority, and the reason being is because uh what you're saying, I've experienced it all the way back in elementary school, and I've heard this said over and over again.
00:27:28.430 --> 00:27:30.190
It's not what I think, it's what you think.
00:27:30.269 --> 00:27:33.790
It's not you know, so I'm like a complete opposite of that.
00:27:34.190 --> 00:27:42.990
It's interesting because I know one of uh one of your works I forget what you the song is exhuming McCarthy.
00:27:43.230 --> 00:27:44.110
Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:27:44.350 --> 00:27:45.310
Yours is zoom in.
00:27:45.550 --> 00:27:46.190
Exhuming.
00:27:46.350 --> 00:27:49.070
This is remember what I was a great segue again, too.
00:27:49.150 --> 00:28:07.870
Yeah, remember I was telling you that I was just so amazed by that was the piece that I was uh that was in my head because I'm paying, I've written all this stuff down, and and I have all the ideas of what I want to interpret, but you know, and you know, exumen McCarthy.
00:28:08.030 --> 00:28:10.430
Do you know why it's called Exhuman McCarthy?
00:28:10.990 --> 00:28:11.950
No, I don't.
00:28:12.190 --> 00:28:13.550
It's a song by REM.
00:28:13.870 --> 00:28:15.630
Well, I know that you know I know the REM song.
00:28:15.710 --> 00:28:19.070
I'm very familiar with the song, but I'm not sure the relation.
00:28:19.390 --> 00:28:20.350
The context, yeah.
00:28:20.430 --> 00:28:27.790
Yeah, I had a I had a teacher when I was in junior high school, which was an inner city school also, but it had a magnet program.
00:28:27.870 --> 00:28:31.070
It was a and it had art and it had photography.
00:28:31.390 --> 00:28:36.190
So, but we had to take a test for you know to figure out where we were gonna go.
00:28:36.350 --> 00:28:41.230
So I took the test and they put me in photography, and I was very, very upset.
00:28:41.470 --> 00:28:45.470
But the teacher was like had a very big influence on me.
00:28:45.550 --> 00:28:56.509
He was an amazing teacher, but he was a weirdo, like you know, a white dude, total hippie, okay, you know, in the middle of the inner city teaching us photography.
00:28:56.670 --> 00:28:58.269
All the teachers hated him.
00:28:59.870 --> 00:29:04.509
All the kids loved him, even the worst of the worst used to come and hang out in his class.
00:29:04.670 --> 00:29:10.509
When I say the worst of the work, I'm talking about you know, people who would be cutting class, getting bites and all that stuff.
00:29:10.910 --> 00:29:12.509
Just want to hang out in his class.
00:29:12.670 --> 00:29:14.430
Well, anyways, he used to play REM.
00:29:14.830 --> 00:29:19.870
Oh, okay, you know, and then I guess at first I didn't like it, but then it grew on me.
00:29:19.950 --> 00:29:21.870
It would end up being one of my favorite bands.
00:29:22.030 --> 00:29:22.990
Yeah, interesting.
00:29:23.070 --> 00:29:24.990
Because even Mike, that's what made me think of that.
00:29:25.070 --> 00:29:32.750
It was because Michael Snipe said he doesn't like to explain his lyrics because he feels like he's still he's robbing the listener of their interpretation.
00:29:32.910 --> 00:29:36.910
But it's I find it refreshing because I'm like me and John were talking again earlier.
00:29:36.990 --> 00:29:42.670
Like, it's fun looking at your stuff, you're like, okay, I need a decoder ring, I need to kind of figure out I need the key to this.
00:29:42.830 --> 00:29:43.550
What does this mean?
00:29:43.630 --> 00:29:52.910
But it's just it's just to me, it's just I've never seen an artist in my limited experience be so you know open about their symbolic, you know, all that stuff.
00:29:52.990 --> 00:30:03.390
So yeah, so as I'm working on this piece, and it was uh I believe the REM version is based on the Reagan era, right?
00:30:04.190 --> 00:30:07.550
Because it's after the original McCarthy, yeah, bringing it back, yeah.
00:30:08.990 --> 00:30:12.269
So I decided to create one for our era, yeah.
00:30:12.509 --> 00:30:25.470
And and actually what ended up happening is that I was doing I was it was a period where I was doing drawing so many hands because uh the sign of the time that's the series, right?
00:30:25.630 --> 00:30:28.509
Okay, because I was using sign language of the hands, right?
00:30:28.750 --> 00:30:29.150
Yep, yep.
00:30:29.470 --> 00:30:31.630
I saw the BLM with the conjugate.
00:30:31.950 --> 00:30:32.190
Absolutely.
00:30:32.430 --> 00:30:34.110
So that's with the sign of the time.
00:30:34.190 --> 00:30:37.630
So using sign language to basically sign the letters.
00:30:37.870 --> 00:30:38.590
Now I get it.
00:30:39.390 --> 00:30:41.950
Sign of the time, yeah, exhuming McCarthy.
00:30:42.190 --> 00:30:42.830
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:30:42.990 --> 00:30:43.950
That's the chorus.
00:30:44.350 --> 00:30:44.830
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:45.070 --> 00:30:51.070
So so I'm creating this piece, and you know, I I didn't want to do hands anymore.
00:30:51.150 --> 00:30:53.630
I was so tired of doing hands, right?
00:30:53.870 --> 00:30:58.590
And then I thought, oh, what if I do a boxing gloves?
00:30:58.670 --> 00:31:02.030
That would be so much easier to draw the hands, right?
00:31:02.670 --> 00:31:04.509
But so many people can't do hands.
00:31:04.590 --> 00:31:07.470
You your hands are really good and accurate, man.
00:31:07.710 --> 00:31:10.830
But yeah, so is the boxing glove really just to cheat?
00:31:10.910 --> 00:31:13.790
Is that just I was trying to cheat, right?
00:31:14.990 --> 00:31:20.269
Like drawing the Simpsons with they only have like three fingers or something, just to keep it simple.
00:31:20.590 --> 00:31:25.230
So, so I so I but I but the thing is, I need a reason, right?
00:31:25.310 --> 00:31:26.750
Yeah, I need a reason.
00:31:26.830 --> 00:31:27.630
I just can't do it.
00:31:27.710 --> 00:31:30.750
I just can't just but it's like narrative that surprises you, right?
00:31:31.150 --> 00:31:31.950
So I'm surprised.
00:31:32.030 --> 00:31:37.310
So I'm like, I'm drawing this whole concept of McCarthyism and this, that, and the other.
00:31:37.870 --> 00:31:47.390
And it just so happens that during that time, what was the there was there was something with the obstruction of justice.
00:31:47.550 --> 00:31:49.390
Oh, the Capitol rioters, right?
00:31:49.710 --> 00:31:55.950
I mean, there was somebody in the office trying to you know stop everybody from investigating, trying to find out the information.
00:31:56.190 --> 00:32:01.710
Yeah, it just so happened that his name is McCarthy.
00:32:02.030 --> 00:32:02.350
Wow.
00:32:02.670 --> 00:32:03.790
Oh wow, right?
00:32:04.030 --> 00:32:16.750
Yeah, and it just so happened that his in his name is not only McCarthy, but his first name is Kevin, his middle name is Owen, last name McCarthy.
00:32:17.150 --> 00:32:18.430
So you know what that is?
00:32:18.750 --> 00:32:20.750
K McCarthy.
00:32:21.310 --> 00:32:25.870
Oh wow, so now the boxing gloves makes a lot of sense, right?
00:32:28.110 --> 00:32:32.670
Yeah, so so so that's why there's the K-O and McCarthy on the gloves.
00:32:33.790 --> 00:32:41.470
And then, you know, if you look in the background, and you when we're talking about McCarthyism, we're talking about the red scare and the blacklist.
00:32:41.550 --> 00:32:41.710
Oh.
00:32:42.030 --> 00:32:59.310
So I was interpreting like everything that's red, MAGA's red, Russia's interference and election red, uh, China supposedly you know being the cause of COVID, uh, red, just you know, everything, and then the blacklist, like Colin Kapnick for kneeling and stuff like that.
00:32:59.390 --> 00:33:06.990
Yeah, but what I found interesting was what surprised me, the Kevin Owen uh, of course, with the KO, which goes with the boxing glove.
00:33:07.070 --> 00:33:12.590
Yeah, but I was trying to figure out okay, how am I gonna interpret exhuming?
00:33:12.910 --> 00:33:13.630
Exhuming.
00:33:13.710 --> 00:33:20.509
I'm trying to, and I sat in front of this painting for like hours doing epsilon, trying to figure out how am I gonna interpret exhuming, right?
00:33:20.750 --> 00:33:22.750
Because the word exhuming means to dig up.
00:33:22.910 --> 00:33:23.070
Right.
00:33:23.390 --> 00:33:29.150
And in the piece, what I'm doing is I'm basically having you dig up all these little small things.
00:33:29.310 --> 00:33:34.190
They're like, you know, they're specifically created real small, right?
00:33:34.509 --> 00:33:34.910
Right.
00:33:35.230 --> 00:33:42.590
So you have to do detective work, kind of, and it just so happens to be on a target because I at the time I'm paying it on target.
00:33:42.670 --> 00:33:44.590
Yeah, and then it just blew my mind away.
00:33:44.750 --> 00:33:49.790
I said, hey, what do you do when you're when you're shooting a target?
00:33:50.110 --> 00:33:52.830
You focus on the X, you zoom in.
00:33:52.990 --> 00:33:54.110
Uh zoom.
00:33:54.430 --> 00:33:56.910
So your X zooming in.
00:33:57.150 --> 00:33:58.509
Yeah, I love.
00:33:59.950 --> 00:34:01.790
I was like, oh, there it is right there.
00:34:01.870 --> 00:34:03.550
Yeah, so then that's how I end up.
00:34:03.710 --> 00:34:11.070
Okay, that's why I'm creating all these little small pieces, so you can actually zoom in on the all these X's on the target.
00:34:11.309 --> 00:34:20.190
So you're you're getting deep in kind of these pieces, and then you see the story just start to like the patterns overlap, and you start to see like something new emerging from you.
00:34:20.590 --> 00:34:24.429
That the Kevin Owen was not written, the exhuming was not written.
00:34:24.509 --> 00:34:29.550
I just had to like meditate and sit in front of this for hours, and then it just comes to me.
00:34:29.710 --> 00:34:46.110
Yeah, and then so the uh name of that series is is it just Florida Targets or is it do you print because it's spelled with like Florida with the R-E-A-D meaning read because uh it started off as a magazine cover.
00:34:46.349 --> 00:34:52.589
So he's also supposed to represent magazines called the Florida Targets, but I spell it with R-E-A-D because it's a magazine.
00:34:53.789 --> 00:35:02.109
Yeah, yeah, and that all started because the way I started with the targets was I have a friend named Alice Williams, he's a gun enthusiast.
00:35:02.349 --> 00:35:09.549
I've never shot a gun, I've never like, you know, and I'm not like opposed to guns, it's just never been my thing, you know.
00:35:09.629 --> 00:35:12.109
We never had one in our house or anything like that.
00:35:12.349 --> 00:35:23.309
So, but our Alice gave me a target that he shot, and it sat in my house for a while, and then I moved, and then all of a sudden I got the urge to like, oh my god, this is a silhouette.
00:35:23.629 --> 00:35:27.389
But I don't I do a little rendering of a make it look like a real human being.
00:35:27.629 --> 00:35:29.149
So that's how it all started.
00:35:29.309 --> 00:35:35.629
And then there was this show, I think it was the center at the art co-op co-op.
00:35:36.029 --> 00:35:49.469
Okay, and they had a and I could be wrong, but I think it was a center, and they had this call for arts to participate in the show, and the theme was all things Florida, right?
00:35:49.629 --> 00:35:57.549
Okay, so in my head, I'm thinking, oh man, it's gonna be some palm trees, it's gonna be some beaches, it's gonna be some pelicans, and you know, like all that stuff.
00:35:57.629 --> 00:36:01.149
And I'm trying to think, oh, what can I do to disrupt this?
00:36:01.229 --> 00:36:10.749
You know, yeah, so I was like, okay, but I'm already working on targets, so I don't want to change what I'm doing just to be part of the show, but I want to be part of the show.
00:36:10.909 --> 00:36:13.069
And then I just thought about this brilliant idea.
00:36:13.149 --> 00:36:18.269
Hey, I'll just call the targets Florida targets, and it's a magazine from Florida.
00:36:18.509 --> 00:36:19.469
Okay, you know what I'm saying?
00:36:19.709 --> 00:36:23.709
And that that solved the theme, and I can continue working on my target, yeah.
00:36:23.949 --> 00:36:28.589
And that's how this whole concept of this Florida Target magazine started.
00:36:28.909 --> 00:36:29.789
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:29.949 --> 00:36:30.909
Do you do that a lot?
00:36:30.989 --> 00:36:35.629
Because the last two things you told us, like you're stitching together two ideas.
00:36:35.789 --> 00:37:03.629
I mean, I imagine sometimes it fails, maybe like the trying to join two disparate ideas, but or is it always just like when you can see the thread, you just I think it's just uh, you know, it's probably just part of who I am and been doing this for a long time, and I'm very like I'm never like yes, there are deadlines, but I don't like the rush things, you know?
00:37:04.029 --> 00:37:09.069
Right, you know, so you're a union guy, you gotta drag your feet a little bit, you know.
00:37:10.109 --> 00:37:22.189
So, yeah, if I have to sit in front of painting for two hours and not do anything, then that's what I'm gonna do because I don't like having anything on there that I don't know why it's there for.
00:37:23.469 --> 00:37:30.989
What about the uh did a little bit of research, but so you there was some a series, I don't know how long it was what with the fabric cubes or what was it called?
00:37:31.149 --> 00:37:33.629
Oh the hyper cubes, hyper cubes and what was it?
00:37:33.789 --> 00:37:39.389
Yeah, this is uh actually this is uh a series I think that was started in 2016.
00:37:39.629 --> 00:37:45.549
Okay, and it was not my brilliant idea as uh Stephanie, my wife idea.
00:37:45.869 --> 00:37:47.069
Oh, she's an artist as well.
00:37:47.309 --> 00:37:48.269
She's an artist as well.
00:37:48.429 --> 00:37:52.429
She just moved out of the studio, but she um had a studio at Cork also.
00:37:52.589 --> 00:37:55.549
I mean, she's still there, she works in my studio.
00:37:55.789 --> 00:37:58.349
It's hot right now, so she's working at home.
00:37:58.589 --> 00:37:58.989
Yeah, yeah.
00:37:59.149 --> 00:38:01.629
But, anyways, uh, she's a mathematician.
00:38:02.189 --> 00:38:19.549
Okay, and she came up with this concept called the hypercubes or whatever, and it's basically a shape, you know, you have the 2D, the 3D, and the hypercube would be like an alternative universe, like a 4D.
00:38:20.189 --> 00:38:28.029
And what I'm saying is her idea, you know, it's like she could better interpret it than I am.
00:38:28.109 --> 00:38:29.229
I just look at it, okay.
00:38:29.309 --> 00:38:31.629
Look, we're gonna collaborate on this show together.
00:38:31.789 --> 00:38:33.069
Let's come up with a concept.
00:38:33.229 --> 00:38:36.909
And she came up with it, we came up together with the hypercube, right?
00:38:37.069 --> 00:38:42.589
Okay, and basically we just took this shape and recreated it.
00:38:42.829 --> 00:38:44.909
And I love doing projects like that.
00:38:44.989 --> 00:38:54.669
It's it's fun, you know, just because it's not like it's not like the uh other type of work that I do where I have to figure out what's point A, point B, point C, whatever.
00:38:54.829 --> 00:38:55.629
It's like here's a shape.
00:38:55.949 --> 00:38:57.949
You get to break out of your own pattern, absolutely.
00:38:58.029 --> 00:38:59.789
Yeah, here's a shape.
00:39:00.509 --> 00:39:02.669
How can I run this to the ground?
00:39:02.829 --> 00:39:03.389
You know what I'm saying?
00:39:04.829 --> 00:39:05.549
What what yeah?
00:39:05.629 --> 00:39:08.269
Well, how many things can I do with this shape?
00:39:08.429 --> 00:39:12.269
I can use fabric, I can use wood, I can use chalk, I can use, you know what I'm saying?
00:39:12.349 --> 00:39:16.589
So it's all these different interpretations to the one that you probably just seen.
00:39:16.749 --> 00:39:23.069
Well, when we did that show, I there was so many different variations of this shape, right?
00:39:23.469 --> 00:39:26.669
But my favorite was the fabric.
00:39:27.069 --> 00:39:28.429
Okay, that's probably what I saw, yeah.
00:39:28.589 --> 00:39:36.669
And I've been wanting to do one for a long time, but then you know, it was getting so political that I had to, you know, I had to do the targets.
00:39:37.309 --> 00:39:43.069
So then Mocha for the first time had a local show, right?
00:39:43.309 --> 00:39:44.829
I believe that was last year.
00:39:45.069 --> 00:39:46.029
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:46.429 --> 00:39:50.029
The biannual or triennial or whatever.
00:39:50.349 --> 00:39:52.989
So they had a local show for the first time.
00:39:53.229 --> 00:40:06.269
So so uh uh the the head came to the studio to look at some of my work, and out of all the targets I had, it was that one hyper cube that they were attracted to.
00:40:06.589 --> 00:40:10.589
So they said, hey, we want you to do another one for the show, but we wanted to do it bigger.
00:40:11.389 --> 00:40:17.069
So I ended up doing the one for the show with the local t-shirts.
00:40:18.189 --> 00:40:22.429
You know, so it's just a whole bunch of t-shirts that are glued together flat.
00:40:22.669 --> 00:40:24.749
How many t-shirts did it take?
00:40:25.069 --> 00:40:25.709
Whew.
00:40:27.069 --> 00:40:35.949
Did you just go to a thrift store or did you uh no, no, these were actual t sh uh these were actually uh personal shirts that I've had for years.
00:40:36.189 --> 00:40:36.829
Oh, okay.
00:40:36.909 --> 00:40:37.309
Wow.
00:40:37.549 --> 00:40:47.149
And for the ones that I that weren't mine, I actually uh called Ricky and see if she had uh some shirts to donate.
00:40:47.229 --> 00:40:54.989
But ironically, some of the shirts that she had were the ones that I had I had also, but they had worn out and I probably threw them away.
00:40:55.629 --> 00:40:57.789
Most of the things so they kind of filled in your collection.
00:40:58.109 --> 00:40:58.509
Absolutely, yeah.
00:40:58.589 --> 00:41:03.709
She had a Sean Thurston shirt that I that I uh wanted, but I didn't have, so that was cool.
00:41:04.349 --> 00:41:04.909
Yeah, yeah.
00:41:05.149 --> 00:41:06.429
So that's that's what that was.
00:41:06.509 --> 00:41:24.429
So it was a flat surface, but I drew and I glued the the actual shirts on there, but then I wanted to actually have I wanted to have the actual flow of the real fabric, so I actually drew on the fabric to make it look like it has the you know the folds and stuff like that.
00:41:24.669 --> 00:41:24.989
Gotcha.
00:41:25.069 --> 00:41:26.669
I'll have to go back and take a look.
00:41:26.909 --> 00:41:27.949
And then what was the one?
00:41:28.029 --> 00:41:30.989
There was a I know I'm half getting these titles, the metal.
00:41:31.149 --> 00:41:34.509
There was a metal series of some sort.
00:41:35.469 --> 00:41:36.909
Do you know what I'm talking about?
00:41:37.309 --> 00:41:42.189
Well, yeah, I did a series with metal, I called it metaling or something like that.
00:41:42.269 --> 00:41:45.149
And it was inspired by Dolph.
00:41:45.469 --> 00:41:45.709
Okay.
00:41:45.869 --> 00:41:46.029
Yeah.
00:41:46.189 --> 00:41:47.549
Yeah, when he was here, yeah.
00:41:47.629 --> 00:41:49.549
He was doing woodwork and metalwork.
00:41:49.629 --> 00:41:53.709
And that's the whose sculpture you got all tangled up in out in the courtyard.
00:41:53.949 --> 00:41:54.909
Oh, okay, yeah.
00:41:55.709 --> 00:42:00.589
So prior to him leaving Cork, uh, he just started giving away a lot of materials.
00:42:00.749 --> 00:42:01.069
Yeah.
00:42:01.229 --> 00:42:03.949
Some of it actually had some of his artwork on there.
00:42:04.509 --> 00:42:05.149
Right.
00:42:05.469 --> 00:42:23.549
So for the ones that had his artwork on there, I thought instead of just painting over it, because he did metaling and woodwork, I started actually turning, I started interpreting his metal and wood sculptures as uh as 2D.
00:42:24.029 --> 00:42:38.589
So that I would actually cut out pieces of wood or draw on wood or cut out uh flat pieces of metal and glue it on the draw on it to make it look like it's actually his 3D sculpture.
00:42:39.949 --> 00:42:43.949
Well, I yeah, I was gonna ask you, what are you working on now?
00:42:44.829 --> 00:42:48.829
Actually, I've been not I haven't been working for a while.
00:42:48.909 --> 00:42:52.269
I had this project on a wall and ready to go.
00:42:52.429 --> 00:42:52.749
Yeah.
00:42:52.909 --> 00:42:55.869
And then I just got busy doing a lot of other things.
00:42:55.949 --> 00:42:56.269
Yeah.
00:42:56.509 --> 00:43:05.229
So I think uh probably by the end of this month or the beginning of next month, I'll get back to working.
00:43:05.629 --> 00:43:12.029
The project that I was supposed to be, like I had it, I it's already on the wall, ready to go, and I've been writing about it.
00:43:12.189 --> 00:43:14.269
I don't know how it's gonna turn out though.
00:43:14.509 --> 00:43:21.309
But I'm trying to interpret interpret this song by Stilly Dan.
00:43:22.349 --> 00:43:35.869
Pretzel logic was was the one that was supposed to somehow interpret the the colonizers, but I didn't really get it to get into it.
00:43:35.949 --> 00:43:53.549
So sometimes like I uh I have a brilliant idea and it just doesn't really work out, so I move on and then I just focus on something completely new and yeah, that I I think bad sneakers, I'm gonna just like the uh exomen McCarthy piece.
00:43:54.189 --> 00:44:00.509
I had all these ideas that I wanted to put in the sign of the time series, right?
00:44:00.829 --> 00:44:13.469
But when I did the first one, I did, you know, the BM body of a black male with the head and the arms only and the heads representing hands representing the head.
00:44:14.109 --> 00:44:18.349
And I wanted to do all this blacklist and red scare and all this stuff.
00:44:18.429 --> 00:44:24.349
Yeah, but then once I looked at the body, it looked at so perfect that I said no, I'm gonna leave it alone.
00:44:24.429 --> 00:44:32.749
Yeah, so then I said, Okay, well, so I did the front of the body, so let me do the same character, but the back of the body.
00:44:32.909 --> 00:44:33.229
Yeah.
00:44:33.549 --> 00:44:34.189
Right?
00:44:34.749 --> 00:44:37.149
And then the same thing happens again.
00:44:37.229 --> 00:44:40.189
I was like, oh my God, I just love the way this looks by itself.
00:44:40.269 --> 00:44:41.629
I'm not gonna add no lettering.
00:44:42.189 --> 00:44:42.349
Okay.
00:44:42.589 --> 00:44:42.749
Yeah.
00:44:42.909 --> 00:44:45.309
So I said, okay, all right, well, then let me go full scale.
00:44:45.389 --> 00:44:48.509
Now I'll do the whole because at first it was like up to the navel.
00:44:48.669 --> 00:44:48.829
Yeah.
00:44:49.149 --> 00:44:50.829
So then I said, okay, let me do the whole body.
00:44:50.909 --> 00:44:54.669
And this time instead of the man, I already did the front of the man, the back of the man.
00:44:54.749 --> 00:44:55.869
Let me do a woman.
00:44:56.109 --> 00:44:58.989
Did that, and I was like, nope, not touching that.
00:44:59.549 --> 00:45:04.509
So that's like I end up doing like a whole series and not doing any of it.
00:45:04.669 --> 00:45:04.989
Yeah.
00:45:05.149 --> 00:45:05.549
You know?
00:45:05.789 --> 00:45:08.909
So then finally I said, okay, well, I'm gonna focus.
00:45:09.069 --> 00:45:13.789
So everything that I wanted to do that I didn't do, I'm gonna put it all in exubing McCarthy.
00:45:14.669 --> 00:45:16.589
And that's why that piece is so busy.
00:45:16.669 --> 00:45:22.909
Because I've been I've been building up the momentum for a while while creating all the other pieces.
00:45:23.149 --> 00:45:27.069
Because I'm always trying to figure out a way to like not start over.
00:45:27.469 --> 00:45:35.629
Like I want to do what I want to do, yeah, regardless of what, because I do a lot of shows or participate in a lot of shows that are theme-based.
00:45:36.349 --> 00:45:45.869
And I have to figure out how I can do what I want to do without doing, you know, without conforming to what they want me to do.
00:45:45.949 --> 00:45:50.429
So I have to like, you know, like Frankenstein up my wife, Stephanie.
00:45:50.669 --> 00:45:59.389
Oh my God, like the way she's just puts, she does these one-line drawings, yeah, and there's so much work that goes into it.
00:45:59.949 --> 00:46:04.189
And then I've seen her get so far, and it's like, oh, I made a mistake here.
00:46:04.429 --> 00:46:05.629
I'm starting all over.
00:46:05.789 --> 00:46:07.229
I'm like, are you crazy?
00:46:07.389 --> 00:46:13.389
I mean, I would I'll sit sit at the painting for hours and days before I even start over.
00:46:13.549 --> 00:46:16.189
Yeah, I'm gonna ride this thing out.
00:46:16.429 --> 00:46:22.189
It'll be sitting in the in my studio for years until like something's gonna, I'm not starting over.
00:46:22.349 --> 00:46:22.749
Yeah.
00:46:22.989 --> 00:46:24.909
So you would you say you're a stubborn?
00:46:25.389 --> 00:46:26.509
Yeah, very stubborn.
00:46:26.589 --> 00:46:27.789
It's gonna work, it's gonna work.
00:46:27.869 --> 00:46:29.069
I figure it out.
00:46:29.389 --> 00:46:29.949
Good thing.
00:46:30.189 --> 00:46:41.629
So when you're like getting busy and the it's on the wall, but like you're not giving it the attention that you want to be able to give to work, it's still like noodling around in your brain that whole time in little ways.
00:46:41.869 --> 00:46:42.829
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
00:46:42.909 --> 00:46:53.229
It's always in my head, like it's like for especially when it's related to music, which most of the time it is, like that it rings in my head all day.
00:46:53.389 --> 00:47:10.829
Like when I was uh before I did the sign of the time series, yeah, the sign of the time was ringing in my head, and I was working on a mural, and the sign of the time 2020, it was like in my head all day long, just like bad sneakers has been in my head all day long.
00:47:10.989 --> 00:47:18.589
Yeah, so yeah, I yeah, I think about it all the time, and then when something clicks, I write it down.
00:47:18.829 --> 00:47:38.749
It's interesting too, because it sounds kind of like there's almost like a dialogue between you and the universe or your own creative force where you're like, I have all of these thoughts that I'm gonna imbue into this piece, but then when the piece tells you, no, this is it's done, like that's it talking back to you, right?
00:47:38.909 --> 00:47:42.429
You still had ideas to get in there, but then you're like, no, you know what, I don't want to mess with it.
00:47:42.669 --> 00:47:43.309
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:47:43.389 --> 00:47:45.389
You gotta know when it's done.
00:47:45.709 --> 00:47:53.549
I usually I used to say, as long as it's in your possession, it's never done, but I find that not to be true.
00:47:55.629 --> 00:47:57.069
Yeah, yeah.
00:47:57.309 --> 00:48:01.309
Like it could go on forever, but it probably wouldn't necessarily always get better.
00:48:01.789 --> 00:48:08.909
My next exhibit, solo exhibit, is gonna be at Unicat, and that's gonna be in January.
00:48:09.149 --> 00:48:09.709
Oh, cool.
00:48:09.869 --> 00:48:11.069
Georgia Noli's place.
00:48:11.709 --> 00:48:12.589
I love that spot.
00:48:12.749 --> 00:48:13.149
Yeah.
00:48:13.389 --> 00:48:21.869
So, and currently I'm trying to like I've been saying this to myself, like, why does everything have to make sense so much?
00:48:22.029 --> 00:48:22.589
You know?
00:48:22.989 --> 00:48:26.829
So that's why I'm actually trying to.
00:48:27.389 --> 00:48:41.149
I don't know if it's gonna happen because I'm so I'm so used to like everything have to make sense, but I think that's why I'm trying to do this stiddly dance, stilly dan influence along with MF Doom.
00:48:41.709 --> 00:48:42.749
Oh, interesting.
00:48:42.989 --> 00:48:48.909
Yeah, so those are the two of the main artists that I've been listening to for the past uh few years.
00:48:49.149 --> 00:48:54.029
I've I've always listened to them, but like I've been listening to them like consistently.
00:48:54.109 --> 00:48:58.509
Yeah, so do you think some of your art is gonna contain influences from both of those music?
00:48:59.069 --> 00:48:59.949
I hope so.
00:49:00.269 --> 00:49:16.189
Because of when I like, for instance, like a Wu Tang or you know the Age of Aquarius series or so, I can pretty much understand what they're saying based on Supreme Mathematics, based on astrology, and especially now we got Google, you know what I'm saying?
00:49:16.589 --> 00:49:28.429
Pretty much understand, but still Stilly Dan and MF Doom, their lyrics are so uh unrecognizable to me.
00:49:28.909 --> 00:49:30.189
It's very, very different.
00:49:30.349 --> 00:49:34.029
I mean, it's hard to interpret what they're trying to say.
00:49:34.349 --> 00:49:34.989
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:35.229 --> 00:49:48.589
So I I'm trying to use that as the inspiration, and I'm thinking that it's gonna be something a little bit more different from like having a direct from A through Z, like this stands for this, this stands for that.
00:49:48.669 --> 00:49:53.789
Yeah, I think it's gonna be one of those that you might have to lead to your own interpretation.
00:49:54.429 --> 00:50:01.389
Hopefully, it will develop some uh a new series or a new style that I enjoy.
00:50:01.709 --> 00:50:03.309
Looking forward to seeing that, man.
00:50:03.549 --> 00:50:04.829
Would you ever animate anything?
00:50:04.909 --> 00:50:06.909
Would you ever bring any of your creations to life?
00:50:06.989 --> 00:50:12.029
Like have a it'll be interesting to actually like the bodies of the target.
00:50:12.189 --> 00:50:25.469
I would love to see them like actually speak and tell and narrate their own story because if the artwork, instead of me talking and explaining if the artwork itself can narrate its own story, that would be interesting.
00:50:25.709 --> 00:50:25.869
Yeah.
00:50:29.149 --> 00:50:36.589
What's something that you love about Jacksonville or something that just interests you all continually?
00:50:37.549 --> 00:50:42.509
Is there it what it doesn't have to be a place, it can be an activity, it can be like whatever.
00:50:44.029 --> 00:50:47.789
I think I like my studio here.
00:50:48.509 --> 00:50:54.749
I'm a pretty much I don't like I mean I wouldn't say I don't like, but I don't really do much at all.
00:50:55.149 --> 00:51:05.069
Like I don't go out unless like going to support like opening, you know, or or something like that, or musician or or something like that.
00:51:05.149 --> 00:51:10.349
But I really have like no ambition to go out and do anything at all.
00:51:10.509 --> 00:51:15.629
Like I can't really like it to me, it's like art all day.
00:51:15.789 --> 00:51:16.109
Yeah.
00:51:16.349 --> 00:51:17.389
You know, that's what I do.
00:51:17.469 --> 00:51:20.269
I wake up, you know, that's what I do, that's what I think about.
00:51:20.829 --> 00:51:23.789
So unfortunately, yeah, yeah.
00:51:23.869 --> 00:51:26.669
I don't like yeah, I don't think that's unfortunate.
00:51:26.749 --> 00:51:27.629
I think that's a great answer.
00:51:27.709 --> 00:51:29.869
Yeah, you're like, I'm I'm obsessed with my work.
00:51:29.949 --> 00:51:32.189
Like I am obsessed with my work.
00:51:32.429 --> 00:51:34.509
Jacksonville is a wonderful place.
00:51:35.469 --> 00:51:43.949
I moved here mainly because I had for some reason or other, I have three sisters, and all three of them ended up in Jacksonville.
00:51:44.269 --> 00:51:45.789
Okay, you know, yeah, interesting.
00:51:46.029 --> 00:51:48.349
So that's how I I I came down here.
00:51:48.589 --> 00:51:50.829
But I will tell you this though.
00:51:53.309 --> 00:51:56.189
Right before Jacksonville, I was living in California.
00:51:56.349 --> 00:51:56.749
Yeah.
00:51:56.909 --> 00:52:02.029
But there was something about Jacksonville, like that's in the air that is motivating.
00:52:02.189 --> 00:52:04.829
I don't know, it just has this creative energy.
00:52:04.989 --> 00:52:05.229
Yeah.
00:52:05.389 --> 00:52:11.149
And you would think being in California, one of them considered one of the most creative places in the world.
00:52:11.309 --> 00:52:11.629
Yeah.
00:52:11.789 --> 00:52:15.709
Like, but as soon as I moved to Jacksonville, like I was cranking out artwork.
00:52:15.789 --> 00:52:22.269
Like I did more artwork like within a month than I did when I for maybe a year and a half when I was in California.
00:52:22.429 --> 00:52:22.589
Yeah.
00:52:22.829 --> 00:52:33.629
I mean, some people might say because there's not much to do, I don't know if that I think there's a lot of like real stories here, like raw, like raw people out in the world.
00:52:34.189 --> 00:52:42.509
I I lived in California for a couple of years, and I liked that I didn't know anyone, so I was able to like really be like focused on my work and on me.
00:52:42.669 --> 00:52:45.709
I didn't go out and do I couldn't afford to go out and do a whole lot.
00:52:46.189 --> 00:52:55.869
And there were a lot, I mean there were a lot of creative people everywhere there, but they already have kind of their pockets, and they're going for something big, they're not just exploring.
00:52:56.189 --> 00:52:56.589
Right.
00:52:56.749 --> 00:53:00.349
I think, yeah, that's that's the unique thing about Jacksonville.
00:53:00.509 --> 00:53:05.469
I feel like all the major cities, like, what more can you do?
00:53:05.629 --> 00:53:06.989
Yeah, it's already been done.
00:53:07.229 --> 00:53:08.189
Yeah, you know, true.
00:53:08.429 --> 00:53:10.749
Like we're actually making it here.
00:53:10.909 --> 00:53:16.189
Yeah, we're we're we're in the process of making it and creating it.
00:53:16.349 --> 00:53:19.229
Yeah, we're in that renaissance period, totally.
00:53:19.469 --> 00:53:22.509
That depressionist period.
00:53:23.149 --> 00:53:24.269
This is perfect, yeah.
00:53:24.669 --> 00:53:38.189
Actually, the the actual the idea behind the depressionist is that the statement was Jacksonville is on the verge of a cultural renaissance, yeah, but the birthing process is very painful.
00:53:38.589 --> 00:53:47.069
Oh wow, you know, yeah, so that's the concept of the whole depressionist and how do you do you guys still work on that concept at all?
00:53:47.149 --> 00:53:49.869
Or no, we did murals together, yeah.
00:53:50.029 --> 00:53:58.829
And you know, as I was saying outside, every time I do a mural, there we're the collaboration's done, right?
00:54:00.669 --> 00:54:02.749
So nah, we haven't now.
00:54:02.909 --> 00:54:07.229
We the we have a depressionist page on social media.
00:54:07.389 --> 00:54:15.149
We haven't posted it for years, we haven't collaborated for years, we haven't did a show or pieces for years.
00:54:15.309 --> 00:54:18.109
Yeah, I don't know what the future holds.
00:54:18.349 --> 00:54:18.669
Yeah.
00:54:18.749 --> 00:54:24.589
Um, but it would be interesting to do something for the 20th anniversary, yeah, which is actually this year.
00:54:24.829 --> 00:54:27.149
Oh, so yeah, yeah, too.
00:54:27.469 --> 00:54:30.109
I I have really enjoyed this conversation.
00:54:30.189 --> 00:54:32.909
Thank you for taking this time with us today.
00:54:33.309 --> 00:54:33.869
Thank you.
00:54:34.189 --> 00:54:39.869
Is there anything that we're like skipping over that you'd hope to talk to talk about today?
00:54:39.949 --> 00:54:42.029
Or not not really.
00:54:42.109 --> 00:54:43.389
I had no expectations.
00:54:43.549 --> 00:54:44.829
I came in raw.
00:54:44.989 --> 00:54:45.389
Nice.
00:54:46.909 --> 00:54:47.949
Well, you were great, man.
00:54:48.029 --> 00:54:48.269
Yeah.
00:54:48.429 --> 00:54:48.589
Yeah.
00:54:48.669 --> 00:54:48.989
Thank you.
00:54:49.149 --> 00:54:50.989
Yeah, thank you so much for this time.