Case Study: How Mountainview Christian Church, Gresham, Oregon, is rebooting their church with groups.

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[allen_white]: oh

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[allen_white]: m oh

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[allen_white]: oh

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[allen_white]: m

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[allen_white]: oh

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[allen_white]: m m

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[allen_white]: m

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[allen_white]: oh

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[allen_white]: oh

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[allen_white]: yah

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[allen_white]: yeah

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[allen_white]: oh

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[allen_white]: yes

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[allen_white]: oh oh

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[allen_white]: oh oh oh

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[allen_white]: oh

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[allen_white]: okay

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[allen_white]: a

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[allen_white]: yeah

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[allen_white]: yeah

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[allen_white]: yeah

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[allen_white]: oh

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[craig]: us

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[allen_white]: hey oh oh

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[allen_white]: can

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[craig]: be

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[allen_white]: you hear me

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[craig]: yes we can hear you

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[allen_white]: can i hear you i can hear
you in a place i don't want to

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[allen_white]: hear you at uh

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[craig]: oh hey

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[allen_white]: uh so and in addition to this
being the first

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[craig]: oh

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[allen_white]: instance where i recorded a pastor and
a discipleship pastor on the same thing this

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[allen_white]: is also the first time i've used
this riverside studio

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[craig]: i wondered

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[allen_white]: so

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[craig]: what this was so like this

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[allen_white]: this could be fun it's supposed to
give us it'll break up are

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[craig]: at

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[allen_white]: our audio into separate channels

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[craig]: oh

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[allen_white]: and which is good um but then
it'll

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[craig]: m

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[allen_white]: give me a problem right now

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[craig]: yeah

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[allen_white]: okay i'm gonna

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[craig]: oh

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[allen_white]: yeah

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[craig]: oh

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[allen_white]: i'm gonna disappear for a second and
then i'll come right back it should keep

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[allen_white]: you in the room

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[craig]: okay

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[allen_white]: so fingers crossed

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[craig]: all right here we go

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[allen_white]: you like being guinea pigs right

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[craig]: i love trasinplaysin

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[allen_white]: love

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[craig]: a trakluely

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[craig]: you died i saw the new seek
today one jumped in to save somebody so

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[craig]: it was they were over she got
to the shore he died i was wondering

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[craig]: that's what they were doing then they're
just canvas trying to find she was flailing

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[craig]: she's like i'll go sooner never came
up there along their way right there the

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[craig]: dock right by the r was packed
in air court way had tons of cars

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[craig]: and there there wasn't very much beach
at all

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[craig]: oh i told you almost want to
day and do that a couple of years

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[craig]: ago yeah

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[craig]: sons floating away from the back about
jumps in with like jack and goes to

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[craig]: like right so now we have two
of you with that's why you should anyway

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[craig]: yes so now we have two people
to rest basic first eight is last resort

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[craig]: our last resort is june

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[craig]: oh yeah

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[craig]: yeah it makes sense the last words
came out was yelled into a lower cause

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[craig]: i on anchored you that's right tell
story he stayed anchored up and jumped out

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[craig]: of the back and like dude threw
right i told kid put your stuff away

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[craig]: here we go can we pick them
up tonight i do remember self stupid stupid

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[craig]: simon could have watched you die right
in front of that is tom i don't

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[craig]: know how many times i've read it's
an are somebody's panicked and flailing somebody jumps

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[craig]: in and the victim it's out in
an alternate way and the person that jumped

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[craig]: in to save died

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[craig]: don't chip in the water

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[craig]: m

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[craig]: oh yeah

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[craig]: shoot forgot turn like trying to text
me

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[craig]: yeah yeah yeah

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[craig]: oh

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[craig]: m

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[craig]: oh

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[craig]: he restarted computer back on it in
a second so i wonder if we should

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[craig]: i think what i want to do
shut down

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[craig]: all to sleep eh

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[craig]: yea my son gets on my land
top dead could we have so many times

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[craig]: over bad because i'm working

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[craig]: i go to my email once an
hour

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[allen_white]: oh stuff is happening

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[craig]: hey there we are

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[allen_white]: good stuff is happening

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[craig]: oh

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[allen_white]: all right

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[craig]: a we

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[allen_white]: all right so

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[craig]: m

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[allen_white]: you guys i can see like your
your shoulders

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[craig]: well

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[allen_white]: oh

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[craig]: the

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[allen_white]: i can see a little more of
you that way now the good news is

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[allen_white]: we're not going to use the video

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[craig]: that's what i thought

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[allen_white]: we're just trying to not interrupt each
other

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[craig]: right

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[allen_white]: which i will warn you occasionally you
know i will talk over somebody

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[craig]: m

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[allen_white]: and if you're you know saying something
poignant and then all of a sudden i

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[allen_white]: start blabbing we may stop and i'll
just say hey go back and say that

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[allen_white]: again and this time i'll shut up

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[craig]: we

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[allen_white]: so okay that works so the way
this will go is before the interview starts

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[allen_white]: on the podcast all do

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[craig]: m

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[allen_white]: you know my generic podcast

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[craig]: yeah

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[allen_white]: intro i don't have any music or
anything it's just you know it is what

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[allen_white]: it is and then i'll make an
introduction of the two of you um and

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[allen_white]: then so when when this part starts
it's just going to start with hey tom

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[allen_white]: craig welcome to the podcast and so
we have worry about all this time before

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[allen_white]: i will need you guys just to
send me

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[craig]: yeah

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[allen_white]: a short bio and a picture

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[craig]: yeah ah

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[allen_white]: and we'll figure out how to get
both of you on the thing

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[craig]: m

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[allen_white]: but you know if we have to
cut somebody i'm sorry crag you

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[craig]: hand

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[allen_white]: have to go

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[craig]: out always i put his name

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[allen_white]: so

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[craig]: as the guest

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[allen_white]: yeah so that's all right yeah so
if you guys can send that to me

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[allen_white]: then i'll get it all set up
and then tom i should know this i

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[allen_white]: should have it marise i should have
a tattoo

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[craig]: oh

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[allen_white]: but what is the correct pronunciation of
your last name

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[craig]: it could be anything you wanted to
be no it's the actual call i'm tom

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[craig]: santalinis

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[allen_white]: santalinas

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[craig]: samtelinis

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[allen_white]: there you go

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[craig]: that will work it works

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[allen_white]: because i was going to turn the
double l into a why

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[craig]: technically

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[allen_white]: and

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[craig]: that's what it is in santianas

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[allen_white]: there you go

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[craig]: but people that ends up being worse
than the others

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[allen_white]: santalinas

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[craig]: oh

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[allen_white]: there we go well it's like there's
a mexican restaurant that you're in town that's

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[allen_white]: commonly pronounced l gallo because if you
didn't it would be pronounced l geo

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[craig]: oh right yeah

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[allen_white]: eh

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[craig]: oh

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[allen_white]: eh and you know that leads to
whole other issues so all

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[craig]: it's

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[allen_white]: right

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[craig]: much

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[allen_white]: do you guys

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[craig]: corn

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[allen_white]: have any questions

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[craig]: is that it is in oregon

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[allen_white]: well kansas has its own thing because
we are the home town of not only

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[allen_white]: allen white but also of the west
borough baptist church

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[craig]: yes you are yes you are

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[allen_white]: so in fact there's a christian church
pastor from lincoln christian church in lincoln illinois

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[allen_white]: stopped by a guy named brandon boyd
they were headed out to colorado she was

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[allen_white]: in town yesterday called me and we
walked into starbuck which was very very decorated

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[allen_white]: for pride but and i said our
starbuck i whispered our starbuck is usually not

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[allen_white]: this gay but this is the home
town of the west boro baptist church which

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[allen_white]: caleb colden box talks about in his
book

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[craig]: yes

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[allen_white]: um anyway we're not proud of that
in fact i used to be before they

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[allen_white]: started work in some road work here
i would drive by their compound for the

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[allen_white]: west bro baptist church when i was
leaving my office and i would pray for

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[allen_white]: him and and days that i had
my sun roof open i would pray for

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[allen_white]: them loudly

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[craig]: ah they have visited here

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[allen_white]: oh have they really wow how did

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[craig]: a

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[allen_white]: they

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[craig]: little

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[allen_white]: find

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[craig]: contingency

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[allen_white]: their way all the way out

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[craig]: of

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[allen_white]: there

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[craig]: them ah

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[allen_white]: wow

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[craig]: yeah

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[allen_white]: that's amazing

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[craig]: we were not on their positive list
but they have sated

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[allen_white]: oh

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[craig]: here

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[allen_white]: yeah they protest in the park across
the street from our church and our church

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[allen_white]: is like all of fifty people but
it's on the main you know street in

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[allen_white]: topeka and

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[craig]: okay

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[allen_white]: i just i don't know i just
shake my head

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[craig]: yeah yeah

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[allen_white]: so what do you do t's it's
quite a legacy we got going into pica

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[allen_white]: here all right any questions about what
do in

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[craig]: i'm good

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[allen_white]: all right any anything any questions i
sent over that you don't want to talk

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[allen_white]: about

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[craig]: now we've talked about most of those
questions often in various

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[allen_white]: m

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[craig]: settings

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[craig]: oh

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[allen_white]: all right the spirit of this is
that you know as much as people have

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[allen_white]: you know they'll say oh my church
is you know such and such an age

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[allen_white]: we would never be able to do
that or oh my church was in the

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[allen_white]: lock downs for so long you've got
a lot of those guys topped

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[craig]: yeah

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[allen_white]: then for you to come around and
say this worked so

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[craig]: it's true it's true

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[allen_white]: i'm not looking for endorsement i'm just
looking to tell your story because i think

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[allen_white]: this will give a lot of places
um hope because a lot of you know

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[allen_white]: a lot of people just pastors don't
know what to do right now and so

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[allen_white]: we want to kind of say hey
here's some things you know that barely post

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[allen_white]: pandemic for you guys here are some
things that worked and this was the result

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[allen_white]: and this is how worked connecting people
that are outside of our church this is

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[allen_white]: how we have more leaders than we've
ever had

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[craig]: m

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[allen_white]: um and we'll talk about the team
we'll talk about the whole bit so

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[craig]: great

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[allen_white]: ah and so i don't know with
you guys have you kind of decided who's

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[allen_white]: going to answer what questions or have
you thought about that

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[craig]: no we've not talked about it i've
decided but that's because tom is really nervous

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[craig]: and he normally

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[allen_white]: m

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[craig]: is pretty talkative but i can already
tell he's pretty quiet

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[allen_white]: oh

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[craig]: so i figured the first couple of
questions for sure probably more in my realm

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[craig]: and then where it gets down into
the specifics of the

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[allen_white]: yes

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[craig]: groups

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[allen_white]: oh

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[craig]: really that's crags and he really intimately
knows our process

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[allen_white]: okay

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[craig]: and

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[allen_white]: and if there's

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[craig]: part of what you're looking for is
you know this doesn't work without the lead

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[craig]: pastor's

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[allen_white]: oh

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[craig]: support

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[allen_white]: that's true

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[craig]: and so

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[allen_white]: it

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[craig]: i'm

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[allen_white]: doesn't

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[craig]: happy to chime in and even even
say you know craig was was our guy

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[craig]: to lead this initiative but he couldn't
have done it you know without without my

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[craig]: support without me jumping in without me
having some moments where craig crag had to

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[craig]: lead me and say you've got to
do this you got to do this you

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[craig]: got to do this and we have
that reality that relationship and worked

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[allen_white]: that's good that's good and obviously you
guys had a big success as a result

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[allen_white]: of you know all of this

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[craig]: i

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[allen_white]: so good all right well let's get
started i mean and and just time for

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[allen_white]: the sake of pers active my podcast
has literally dozens and dozens of listeners

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[craig]: yeah hey i get it

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[allen_white]: right so

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[craig]: we

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[allen_white]: it's not like you know five thousand
people

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[craig]: i don't know

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[allen_white]: or something

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[craig]: it could change

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[allen_white]: but

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[craig]: because of us

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[allen_white]: well

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[craig]: yeah

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[allen_white]: that's that's what i'm counting

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[craig]: yeah

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[allen_white]: on so if you're feeling nervous at
all

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[craig]: on

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[allen_white]: this

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[craig]: go

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[allen_white]: is he this is the pressure

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[craig]: yeah

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[allen_white]: all right all right let's get start
and so i'll just welcome you and then

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[allen_white]: say something back and then we'll we'll
get going but just you know just i

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[allen_white]: interviewed larry osborn for last month's podcast
and i was kind of just interviewing him

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[allen_white]: for a book that i'm writing and
i said so part of this is an

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[allen_white]: interview for the book and part of
it's the interview for the podcast and we

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[allen_white]: just talked and then i had to
go back the conversation and i had to

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[allen_white]: figure out okay wait what should i
put in the podcast what do i not

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[allen_white]: put in the podcast because it wasn't
very it was just kind of free flowing

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[allen_white]: i was fine

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[craig]: ye

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[allen_white]: um and then then people got mad
at me because i said the church should

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[allen_white]: be should be political switsorlind so if
you want to get mad at me for

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00:22:06,973 --> 00:22:09,677
[allen_white]: that go ahead everybody else has already
done that this

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[craig]: oh

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00:22:09,738 --> 00:22:15,803
[allen_white]: week right anyway all right let's go
all right tom and crag welcome to the

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[allen_white]: podcast

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[craig]: good to be with you hey allan
glad to be with you

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00:22:21,090 --> 00:22:26,278
[allen_white]: good to have you hey you guys
are at mountain view christian church in gresham

307
00:22:26,459 --> 00:22:26,839
[allen_white]: oregon

308
00:22:26,778 --> 00:22:26,798
[craig]: m

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00:22:27,641 --> 00:22:31,607
[allen_white]: for those of you who aren't aware
gresham is not portland did i get that

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00:22:31,667 --> 00:22:31,848
[allen_white]: right

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00:22:31,778 --> 00:22:32,383
[craig]: it is correct

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00:22:33,851 --> 00:22:37,299
[allen_white]: so tell us about mountain view christian
church how long has it been around and

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00:22:37,820 --> 00:22:41,368
[allen_white]: kind of how long have you been
there and tell me what's going on

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00:22:42,278 --> 00:22:48,328
[craig]: well i'll start out there mount christian
church was planted in nineteen sixty nine as

315
00:22:48,388 --> 00:22:54,237
[craig]: a church plant from another church east
portland there was a lot of growth potential

316
00:22:54,758 --> 00:23:00,528
[craig]: and gresham and so they intentionally planted
us out here and in the fall of

317
00:23:00,588 --> 00:23:09,142
[craig]: nineteen six lance or over fifty years
old we were a prominent been suburbian community

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[craig]: for years and years and years until
until that moved further south east from us

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00:23:16,635 --> 00:23:23,066
[craig]: and really we are demographics have just
drastically changed and so a church

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00:23:22,870 --> 00:23:23,950
[allen_white]: yeah

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00:23:23,186 --> 00:23:32,521
[craig]: that was vibrant with young families and
pretty much upper middle class people has drastically

322
00:23:32,621 --> 00:23:38,852
[craig]: changed and we've become more urban in
nature with the local elementary school represents over

323
00:23:38,952 --> 00:23:46,305
[craig]: thirty languages we have multiple amilies dwelling
in one home together in our community and

324
00:23:46,726 --> 00:23:51,695
[craig]: really mountain view went for being a
community based church to be in a commuter

325
00:23:51,795 --> 00:23:56,256
[craig]: church and so that's really that's really
who we are that's how long we've been

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00:23:56,296 --> 00:24:02,393
[craig]: around for me i've been on staff
since two thousand three came out as an

327
00:24:02,454 --> 00:24:08,843
[craig]: associate youth pastor worked as a as
a youth and children's pastor and then became

328
00:24:08,883 --> 00:24:14,501
[craig]: the lead pastor in two thousand thirteen
so almost nine years i've been serving as

329
00:24:14,561 --> 00:24:15,465
[craig]: the lead pastor here

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[allen_white]: you you've seen quite a bit of
change now i know crag's been on staff

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[allen_white]: since nineteen sixty nine

332
00:24:23,059 --> 00:24:23,239
[craig]: yeah

333
00:24:24,190 --> 00:24:24,711
[allen_white]: oh

334
00:24:26,324 --> 00:24:28,668
[craig]: seems like that some days so i
came

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00:24:28,510 --> 00:24:28,811
[allen_white]: oh

336
00:24:28,708 --> 00:24:34,017
[craig]: in june of ninety nine so i've
just eclipsed twenty three years

337
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,892
[allen_white]: very good and what changes have you
seen over those twenty three years crag other

338
00:24:39,932 --> 00:24:40,915
[allen_white]: than senior pastors

339
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:44,001
[craig]: yeah i've raised

340
00:24:43,990 --> 00:24:44,251
[allen_white]: yeah

341
00:24:44,041 --> 00:24:45,783
[craig]: up a lot of senor pastors and
that amount of time

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00:24:49,482 --> 00:24:50,764
[allen_white]: careful he's sitting right next to you

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00:24:51,128 --> 00:24:51,829
[craig]: yes he has

344
00:24:56,153 --> 00:24:56,713
[craig]: gresham

345
00:24:57,439 --> 00:24:57,460
[allen_white]: m

346
00:24:58,155 --> 00:25:05,945
[craig]: exploded in about twenty years and literally
went from strawberry fields to the bedroom community

347
00:25:06,005 --> 00:25:10,973
[craig]: of portland and i came in really
on the back end of that so in

348
00:25:11,073 --> 00:25:15,252
[craig]: the early two thousand gresham was a
commune you're struggling with an identity

349
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:15,660
[allen_white]: m

350
00:25:16,628 --> 00:25:22,758
[craig]: because we were really they grew up
as homes and so there still isn't a

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00:25:22,839 --> 00:25:25,142
[craig]: central business community

352
00:25:25,390 --> 00:25:25,410
[allen_white]: m

353
00:25:26,104 --> 00:25:32,852
[craig]: really an identity in our commune ah
for people to gather around and so that

354
00:25:32,912 --> 00:25:37,820
[craig]: has been a struggle in our city
and we've had some of that struggle here

355
00:25:37,860 --> 00:25:46,438
[craig]: in the church as well and i've
rolled through several positions here and landed at

356
00:25:46,478 --> 00:25:52,366
[craig]: the time tom came on this lead
pastor and moving towards this small groups discipleship

357
00:25:52,426 --> 00:25:54,106
[craig]: kind of role her mount

358
00:25:56,210 --> 00:26:00,477
[allen_white]: yeah that's good that's that's very good
now let's talk about you guys are in

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00:26:00,657 --> 00:26:05,024
[allen_white]: oregon and obviously the pacific northwest as
well as a few other places in the

360
00:26:05,064 --> 00:26:05,365
[allen_white]: united

361
00:26:05,418 --> 00:26:05,640
[craig]: oh

362
00:26:05,445 --> 00:26:11,756
[allen_white]: states um you had a lot of
covid trictions that lasted for a very long

363
00:26:11,856 --> 00:26:15,443
[allen_white]: time i remember the first time i
came out to see you guys i went

364
00:26:15,563 --> 00:26:21,484
[allen_white]: got a sandwich in an outdoor restaurant
everybody was outdoors there was no front to

365
00:26:21,544 --> 00:26:26,792
[allen_white]: the restaurant i had forgot i put
my mask in my pocket and somebody yelled

366
00:26:26,853 --> 00:26:30,919
[allen_white]: at me sir would you put on
your mask please and i'm thinking we're outside

367
00:26:31,420 --> 00:26:34,445
[allen_white]: but it was a restaurant and there
was a mask mandate and so you guys

368
00:26:34,525 --> 00:26:39,273
[allen_white]: saw that a great deal more of
it a lot of places um so what

369
00:26:39,474 --> 00:26:43,965
[allen_white]: impact did all of these restrictions have
on you guys nd how are you able

370
00:26:44,065 --> 00:26:46,377
[allen_white]: to do you know ministry through all
of that

371
00:26:47,568 --> 00:26:55,902
[craig]: it was challenging um we as far
as portland metro area churches we are certainly

372
00:26:56,343 --> 00:27:00,799
[craig]: a year to and even sixteen months
behind a lot

373
00:27:00,649 --> 00:27:00,670
[allen_white]: m

374
00:27:00,839 --> 00:27:06,755
[craig]: of the country so we shut down
in twenty twenty pretty hard april twenty twenty

375
00:27:07,336 --> 00:27:10,381
[craig]: and no church we already

376
00:27:10,180 --> 00:27:10,870
[allen_white]: yeah

377
00:27:10,562 --> 00:27:16,111
[craig]: had life stream available so we leverage
to our full capacity we didn't have to

378
00:27:16,171 --> 00:27:20,017
[craig]: pivot too much with that because we
were already providing it

379
00:27:20,620 --> 00:27:20,884
[allen_white]: oh

380
00:27:21,339 --> 00:27:29,053
[craig]: but we certainly had a government structure
that couldn't make make decisive decisions very quickly

381
00:27:29,695 --> 00:27:32,019
[craig]: and if if they were decisions

382
00:27:31,690 --> 00:27:31,956
[allen_white]: oh

383
00:27:32,260 --> 00:27:32,741
[craig]: we began

384
00:27:32,620 --> 00:27:32,803
[allen_white]: yeah

385
00:27:32,881 --> 00:27:38,742
[craig]: planning you would expect that it's going
to change and so really we remained closed

386
00:27:38,982 --> 00:27:43,710
[craig]: for when i say closed i hope
we all understand that the church isn't closed

387
00:27:43,750 --> 00:27:49,529
[craig]: but you know we weren't having our
gatherings for well over a year um and

388
00:27:49,589 --> 00:27:52,815
[craig]: then and then even when we were
able to gather there were a lot of

389
00:27:52,855 --> 00:28:02,010
[craig]: restrictions six feet per person spread out
masks handsanitizing stations on so everything we had

390
00:28:02,050 --> 00:28:06,958
[craig]: to pivot everything else in our gatherings
as far as passing communion plates and offering

391
00:28:07,038 --> 00:28:07,519
[craig]: bags

392
00:28:07,270 --> 00:28:07,290
[allen_white]: m

393
00:28:07,659 --> 00:28:10,644
[craig]: and all of that we just had

394
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:11,320
[allen_white]: yeah

395
00:28:10,705 --> 00:28:15,873
[craig]: to pivot our gatherings pret pretty substantially
and it really wasn't until this past march

396
00:28:15,993 --> 00:28:21,342
[craig]: so we're talking just a few months
ago that the masks restrictions were actually lifted

397
00:28:21,923 --> 00:28:28,094
[craig]: and people began returning to lie as
as we knew it in some former fashion

398
00:28:29,396 --> 00:28:29,476
[craig]: and

399
00:28:29,530 --> 00:28:30,340
[allen_white]: yeah

400
00:28:29,576 --> 00:28:34,845
[craig]: so we we managed through almost two
years it was almost two long years of

401
00:28:34,945 --> 00:28:41,218
[craig]: constant changing guide lines restrictions the amount
of people who could come what it did

402
00:28:41,258 --> 00:28:44,904
[craig]: to our people is that it created
a fear factor in a lot of ways

403
00:28:44,980 --> 00:28:45,341
[allen_white]: oh

404
00:28:45,746 --> 00:28:46,888
[craig]: people were fearful

405
00:28:46,725 --> 00:28:46,785
[allen_white]: h

406
00:28:47,108 --> 00:28:47,929
[craig]: of the gathering

407
00:28:48,409 --> 00:28:48,430
[allen_white]: m

408
00:28:48,831 --> 00:28:49,332
[craig]: certainly

409
00:28:49,351 --> 00:28:49,694
[allen_white]: you too

410
00:28:49,913 --> 00:28:50,934
[craig]: things that we saw on

411
00:28:50,930 --> 00:28:50,950
[allen_white]: i

412
00:28:50,975 --> 00:28:51,055
[craig]: the

413
00:28:51,051 --> 00:28:51,131
[allen_white]: mean

414
00:28:51,115 --> 00:28:51,335
[craig]: news

415
00:28:51,251 --> 00:28:51,392
[allen_white]: lad

416
00:28:51,415 --> 00:28:54,901
[craig]: media about churches and all that stuff
just heightens some

417
00:28:54,855 --> 00:28:54,875
[allen_white]: a

418
00:28:54,961 --> 00:28:56,424
[craig]: of that sensitivity to it

419
00:28:57,093 --> 00:28:57,438
[allen_white]: i think you

420
00:28:57,806 --> 00:29:01,833
[craig]: and so you know we managed as
best we could what i would say

421
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:02,081
[allen_white]: yeah

422
00:29:02,293 --> 00:29:08,572
[craig]: is the best thing for us i'm
incredibly thankful we were already really working hard

423
00:29:08,632 --> 00:29:12,971
[craig]: on our groups ministry getting people into
grow groups that's what we call them grow

424
00:29:13,071 --> 00:29:14,272
[craig]: groups getting

425
00:29:14,260 --> 00:29:14,480
[allen_white]: yeah

426
00:29:14,312 --> 00:29:20,500
[craig]: them into small groups because our grow
groups didn't miss a beat they started zoom

427
00:29:20,941 --> 00:29:26,110
[craig]: they met outside in big circles they
were doing all sorts of things and if

428
00:29:26,190 --> 00:29:29,916
[craig]: it wasn't for our groups i'm not
sure that our church would have been able

429
00:29:30,056 --> 00:29:31,864
[craig]: to serve but the level it has

430
00:29:34,370 --> 00:29:39,800
[allen_white]: yeah that's it's amazing it's really amazing
how what you guys had to go through

431
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:44,227
[allen_white]: and yet you know because of groups
because of your online service you guys were

432
00:29:45,689 --> 00:29:48,533
[allen_white]: what prepared in a lot of ways
i mean as well prepared as you could

433
00:29:48,593 --> 00:29:53,459
[allen_white]: be and it wasn't like anybody knew
in advance so good all right

434
00:29:53,940 --> 00:29:54,383
[craig]: two weeks

435
00:29:54,580 --> 00:30:00,169
[allen_white]: just a second my my thing is
telling me my browser is limiting the storage

436
00:30:00,229 --> 00:30:05,378
[allen_white]: available anyway we're going to keep going
and if we have a problem then we'll

437
00:30:05,418 --> 00:30:05,638
[allen_white]: figure

438
00:30:05,568 --> 00:30:05,588
[craig]: m

439
00:30:05,719 --> 00:30:14,256
[allen_white]: it out again this the new thing
using the using this okay so i'll edit

440
00:30:14,317 --> 00:30:14,681
[allen_white]: that part

441
00:30:14,718 --> 00:30:14,738
[craig]: m

442
00:30:14,762 --> 00:30:14,863
[allen_white]: out

443
00:30:15,618 --> 00:30:15,638
[craig]: m

444
00:30:16,891 --> 00:30:20,426
[allen_white]: all right so crag you reached out
to me a little more than a year

445
00:30:20,506 --> 00:30:25,919
[allen_white]: ago and you were interested in putting
some concerted effort into your

446
00:30:25,998 --> 00:30:26,018
[craig]: m

447
00:30:26,039 --> 00:30:30,127
[allen_white]: groups what was going on at the
time and what were you guys hoping to

448
00:30:30,188 --> 00:30:30,548
[allen_white]: change

449
00:30:31,950 --> 00:30:38,943
[craig]: yeah so we have for five years
really desired to move towards being a church

450
00:30:39,163 --> 00:30:44,373
[craig]: of groups not just a church with
groups and like tom said we had been

451
00:30:44,453 --> 00:30:51,379
[craig]: down a track for a season and
we were a bible study based small group

452
00:30:51,459 --> 00:30:51,719
[craig]: church

453
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:52,467
[allen_white]: oh

454
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,786
[craig]: and so groups got people got together
for the purpose of bible study not necessarily

455
00:30:55,946 --> 00:30:58,791
[craig]: for the purpose of a lot of
the other healthy things that happen

456
00:30:59,290 --> 00:30:59,494
[allen_white]: oh

457
00:30:59,753 --> 00:31:03,659
[craig]: when you make the change to becoming
a group which is white changed the name

458
00:31:03,719 --> 00:31:07,706
[craig]: to grow group and that was an
intentional part of that movement but an nose

459
00:31:07,746 --> 00:31:10,991
[craig]: to me we hit the wall that
i found out as i did more and

460
00:31:11,031 --> 00:31:16,205
[craig]: more research and we talked that we
hit him and unless we've made some drastic

461
00:31:16,266 --> 00:31:21,660
[craig]: changes we were not going to get
to our goal uh in the middle of

462
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:22,000
[craig]: that

463
00:31:22,030 --> 00:31:22,172
[allen_white]: yeah

464
00:31:22,481 --> 00:31:27,750
[craig]: covid arrived and we went to zoom
we went outside we measured every room in

465
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:31,937
[craig]: our building to see what the square
footage was to see where our groups could

466
00:31:31,977 --> 00:31:34,983
[craig]: meet according to the mandate the state
had put out and so

467
00:31:35,083 --> 00:31:35,103
[allen_white]: m

468
00:31:35,103 --> 00:31:39,734
[craig]: literally i had people now measuring a
square footage and telling us we know how

469
00:31:39,774 --> 00:31:43,202
[craig]: many people could go in this room
and so we did everything that we could

470
00:31:43,442 --> 00:31:51,809
[craig]: in order to help groups succeed that
were currently there and then it was our

471
00:31:51,889 --> 00:31:56,297
[craig]: two weeks turned into two months turned
into a whole lot other things and i

472
00:31:56,377 --> 00:32:02,467
[craig]: realized we are not going to in
any short time frame recruit any new leaders

473
00:32:03,238 --> 00:32:06,962
[craig]: and grow many new groups the way
that we are currently doing it uh

474
00:32:07,180 --> 00:32:07,200
[allen_white]: m

475
00:32:07,386 --> 00:32:12,815
[craig]: and so i kind of went back
to school on my own and i read

476
00:32:14,018 --> 00:32:19,243
[craig]: double digit numbers of books on small
groups that summer and

477
00:32:20,140 --> 00:32:20,160
[allen_white]: m

478
00:32:20,464 --> 00:32:26,974
[craig]: really landed on what you had written
and exponential groups and thought you know what

479
00:32:27,195 --> 00:32:28,560
[craig]: i'm gonna make a call and

480
00:32:29,260 --> 00:32:29,280
[allen_white]: m

481
00:32:29,262 --> 00:32:33,404
[craig]: talk to allen about experience and here
we are

482
00:32:34,910 --> 00:32:38,175
[allen_white]: here we are now you mentioned at
one point hitting a wall what do you

483
00:32:38,215 --> 00:32:38,957
[allen_white]: mean by hitting a

484
00:32:38,958 --> 00:32:39,178
[craig]: yeah

485
00:32:39,017 --> 00:32:39,938
[allen_white]: wall with your groups

486
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:47,752
[craig]: yeah we got to a certain number
of groups and our process for developing leaders

487
00:32:48,233 --> 00:32:52,949
[craig]: and recruiting people to fill groups feels
like it just masked out and we

488
00:32:53,003 --> 00:32:53,086
[allen_white]: so

489
00:32:53,010 --> 00:32:53,774
[craig]: weren't getting anywhere

490
00:32:55,081 --> 00:32:55,286
[allen_white]: okay

491
00:32:55,199 --> 00:32:57,727
[craig]: you know i would have been as
old as moses if we d have kept

492
00:32:57,747 --> 00:33:00,113
[craig]: the same process to get any more
more groups going

493
00:33:01,340 --> 00:33:03,233
[allen_white]: about how many groups did you have
at that point

494
00:33:03,128 --> 00:33:07,917
[craig]: so we were we had about twenty
five solid groups at that point

495
00:33:10,052 --> 00:33:12,118
[allen_white]: and what was the weekend attendance giver
take

496
00:33:13,439 --> 00:33:15,165
[craig]: so prepandemic five hundred

497
00:33:16,661 --> 00:33:21,747
[allen_white]: okay so i mean it's a very
common place we've talked about this is a

498
00:33:21,767 --> 00:33:26,054
[allen_white]: very common place for church to kind
of get stuck or hit a wall so

499
00:33:26,635 --> 00:33:31,423
[allen_white]: you you read my book and no
got thoroughly confused and then you called me

500
00:33:31,463 --> 00:33:36,752
[allen_white]: and i'm kidding but you decided to
try some things because i mean i wrote

501
00:33:36,792 --> 00:33:40,919
[allen_white]: the book out of you know finding
some things after my own frustration and hitting

502
00:33:40,878 --> 00:33:40,898
[craig]: m

503
00:33:40,979 --> 00:33:46,268
[allen_white]: a wall so i think that's what
you know connected with us so you decided

504
00:33:46,328 --> 00:33:51,536
[allen_white]: to do an alignment series that you
launched in the new year this year tell

505
00:33:51,576 --> 00:33:55,307
[allen_white]: us a little bit about the alignment
sere is why you chose the topic you

506
00:33:55,428 --> 00:33:57,617
[allen_white]: did either of you could speak to
that

507
00:33:58,678 --> 00:34:04,586
[craig]: yeah i kind of led the charge
in that and picked monsters in the closet

508
00:34:06,889 --> 00:34:12,378
[craig]: because i wanted to do something that
would engage our community and so all that

509
00:34:12,438 --> 00:34:16,424
[craig]: time talked us a little bit about
beginning to understand what

510
00:34:16,390 --> 00:34:16,712
[allen_white]: oh

511
00:34:16,465 --> 00:34:20,431
[craig]: was going on spiritually in our commun
and about the same time that i was

512
00:34:20,571 --> 00:34:24,979
[craig]: going through this we got to do
something different with small group outreach

513
00:34:25,420 --> 00:34:26,140
[allen_white]: yeah

514
00:34:25,980 --> 00:34:29,967
[craig]: i think one of the things that
it's important to mention is we had twenty

515
00:34:30,007 --> 00:34:34,194
[craig]: five groups and we have a lot
of great people in those groups and a

516
00:34:34,254 --> 00:34:35,316
[craig]: lot of great potential

517
00:34:35,003 --> 00:34:35,590
[allen_white]: hm

518
00:34:35,376 --> 00:34:41,426
[craig]: leaders but when we use the phrase
multiply it was like a danger word it

519
00:34:41,506 --> 00:34:48,633
[craig]: was like immediately we were ghosted right
because the reality is they're doing life together

520
00:34:48,713 --> 00:34:51,696
[craig]: some of these groups have been together
a few of them a handful of them

521
00:34:51,736 --> 00:34:56,472
[craig]: have been together for thirty years and
when we start talking about multiply they hear

522
00:34:56,632 --> 00:35:01,600
[craig]: split and they hear and they couldn't
a lot of our great people couldn't get

523
00:35:01,681 --> 00:35:07,090
[craig]: beyond that as as just it was
a hurdle yeah that's really good it was

524
00:35:07,110 --> 00:35:11,317
[craig]: a hurdle for him and so that
was part of where craig sat down and

525
00:35:11,597 --> 00:35:14,502
[craig]: he and i had talked what does
the future of groups look like and he

526
00:35:14,562 --> 00:35:18,829
[craig]: really created a four step process and
we had to come to the reality of

527
00:35:18,889 --> 00:35:20,933
[craig]: where we were at and we were
kind of in between that second

528
00:35:20,722 --> 00:35:20,824
[allen_white]: oh

529
00:35:20,973 --> 00:35:24,539
[craig]: and third process we have a dream
down the future

530
00:35:24,190 --> 00:35:24,210
[allen_white]: m

531
00:35:24,999 --> 00:35:26,261
[craig]: but we had to figure out

532
00:35:26,165 --> 00:35:26,710
[allen_white]: hm

533
00:35:26,402 --> 00:35:32,052
[craig]: specifically how do we how do we
recruit how do we help people empower people

534
00:35:32,773 --> 00:35:36,039
[craig]: how do we break out of some
of the rigidness that we've had as far

535
00:35:36,099 --> 00:35:42,850
[craig]: as expectations to just get people to
facilitate a group and and i think allen

536
00:35:42,890 --> 00:35:48,139
[craig]: that's where exponential groups and you and
some of the training that really helped us

537
00:35:48,700 --> 00:35:54,534
[craig]: significantly part of what you commented i
remember our first visit no hey leave the

538
00:35:54,595 --> 00:35:56,505
[craig]: groups that are established leave them alone

539
00:35:57,660 --> 00:35:58,124
[allen_white]: that's right

540
00:35:57,938 --> 00:36:01,725
[craig]: and that was refreshing for us because
we were feeling it and we were feeling

541
00:36:01,765 --> 00:36:06,172
[craig]: this rub at the same time and
so some of the tools you provided some

542
00:36:06,192 --> 00:36:11,278
[craig]: of the things that you did really
gave us the freedom to great we'll leave

543
00:36:11,338 --> 00:36:14,784
[craig]: those groups and not to get too
far ahead but we said to those groups

544
00:36:14,844 --> 00:36:17,789
[craig]: you can do what you want to
do keep keep going down the journey you're

545
00:36:17,849 --> 00:36:22,517
[craig]: going and suddenly not to create the
spoiler alert but then those groups are coming

546
00:36:22,557 --> 00:36:28,914
[craig]: to us hey we wanted to do
that and so you know that was really

547
00:36:28,974 --> 00:36:34,331
[craig]: what was part of driving us towards
we need some help here we just need

548
00:36:34,412 --> 00:36:34,956
[craig]: some guidance

549
00:36:34,922 --> 00:36:35,530
[allen_white]: yeah

550
00:36:34,976 --> 00:36:38,773
[craig]: we need some direction and so that
was one go ahead

551
00:36:40,340 --> 00:36:43,806
[allen_white]: i was just going to say what
would your fear have been if i had

552
00:36:43,886 --> 00:36:47,031
[allen_white]: come in and said oh yeah you
need to scrap all of those groups that

553
00:36:47,071 --> 00:36:50,958
[allen_white]: you have and they all need to
do this new thing how would that have

554
00:36:50,838 --> 00:36:51,160
[craig]: we wouldn't

555
00:36:51,018 --> 00:36:51,238
[allen_white]: felt

556
00:36:51,180 --> 00:36:56,021
[craig]: have signed your contract that as been

557
00:36:55,927 --> 00:36:56,228
[allen_white]: so what

558
00:36:56,121 --> 00:36:57,125
[craig]: no dog yeah

559
00:36:57,931 --> 00:37:01,045
[allen_white]: so what would the monster in the
fat closet have been

560
00:37:01,244 --> 00:37:06,637
[craig]: uh fear of the unknown like i
said at the

561
00:37:06,641 --> 00:37:06,784
[allen_white]: yeah

562
00:37:06,677 --> 00:37:16,080
[craig]: beginning our community has changed so much
um m we don't know how to reach

563
00:37:16,861 --> 00:37:21,405
[craig]: people in our community and so the
idea of reaching more people a lot of

564
00:37:21,445 --> 00:37:22,567
[craig]: those people just couldn't see it

565
00:37:23,830 --> 00:37:23,850
[allen_white]: m

566
00:37:23,948 --> 00:37:28,035
[craig]: they just couldn't see it and so
the fear was you're taking us somewhere we've

567
00:37:28,076 --> 00:37:31,707
[craig]: never been taking us somewhere that we're
actually skeptics

568
00:37:31,540 --> 00:37:32,260
[allen_white]: yeah

569
00:37:31,747 --> 00:37:35,219
[craig]: you will actually be able to do
anyway taking

570
00:37:35,048 --> 00:37:35,560
[allen_white]: hm

571
00:37:35,299 --> 00:37:43,039
[craig]: as some place that really is creating
some comfort issues for me and we needed

572
00:37:43,079 --> 00:37:48,054
[craig]: to listen to that so we did
and you know you helped with a survey

573
00:37:48,174 --> 00:37:48,915
[craig]: you helped give

574
00:37:48,850 --> 00:37:49,091
[allen_white]: yeah

575
00:37:48,975 --> 00:37:52,321
[craig]: us some insight and part of what
you said is leave those

576
00:37:52,256 --> 00:37:52,780
[allen_white]: what

577
00:37:52,381 --> 00:37:58,491
[craig]: groups alone there are people in your
church who can help you yet goals achieved

578
00:37:58,972 --> 00:38:04,608
[craig]: without messing with any of those and
that was a huge breather for us so

579
00:38:05,311 --> 00:38:06,194
[craig]: yeah and on the other side

580
00:38:06,150 --> 00:38:06,292
[allen_white]: yeah

581
00:38:06,234 --> 00:38:12,271
[craig]: of that our community was very clearly
saying we are interested and spiritual conversations so

582
00:38:12,692 --> 00:38:16,839
[craig]: tom had a conversation with a local
church guy we have a connection with a

583
00:38:17,119 --> 00:38:21,627
[craig]: with expand northwest it's a church planting
organization here in portland and he just gave

584
00:38:21,667 --> 00:38:23,370
[craig]: us to die graphic and he just
said listen

585
00:38:23,830 --> 00:38:24,051
[allen_white]: oh

586
00:38:23,871 --> 00:38:27,537
[craig]: in gresham a city of a hundred
and ten thousand there's seventy seven thousand

587
00:38:27,580 --> 00:38:27,742
[allen_white]: oh

588
00:38:27,597 --> 00:38:30,702
[craig]: people who have said we're unaffiliated with
any

589
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:30,900
[allen_white]: m

590
00:38:31,503 --> 00:38:35,819
[craig]: any religion any any faith at all
and we said

591
00:38:35,802 --> 00:38:35,965
[allen_white]: wow

592
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:41,531
[craig]: man well you talk about the harvest
being plentiful the workers being few that that

593
00:38:41,632 --> 00:38:47,463
[craig]: struck accord for us and and nine
out of ten of them won't come to

594
00:38:47,524 --> 00:38:51,834
[craig]: our church with an invitation you just
won't attend

595
00:38:52,015 --> 00:38:52,036
[allen_white]: m

596
00:38:53,249 --> 00:38:59,229
[craig]: but seven out of ten will engage
in a spiritual conversation so this is what

597
00:38:59,409 --> 00:39:03,935
[craig]: sort of drove us to monsters in
the closet is that was kind of our

598
00:39:04,496 --> 00:39:12,072
[craig]: r filter this this has to allow
for us to have spiritual conversations with people

599
00:39:12,838 --> 00:39:18,468
[craig]: who will never be interested in an
invitation to attend our church so we

600
00:39:18,398 --> 00:39:18,438
[allen_white]: h

601
00:39:18,769 --> 00:39:19,249
[craig]: focused

602
00:39:19,309 --> 00:39:19,330
[allen_white]: m

603
00:39:19,409 --> 00:39:22,232
[craig]: on some mental health things with monsters
in the closet

604
00:39:22,210 --> 00:39:22,511
[allen_white]: oh

605
00:39:23,373 --> 00:39:32,085
[craig]: anxiety and fear and an the groups
that participated in that who reached people invited

606
00:39:32,145 --> 00:39:38,295
[craig]: people into their homes who weren't part
of a church who weren't engaged in church

607
00:39:38,876 --> 00:39:44,646
[craig]: at all whoa they were open to
the spiritual conversation s yeah

608
00:39:45,581 --> 00:39:50,113
[allen_white]: so so the attractional piece of you
know everybody come like they did back in

609
00:39:50,153 --> 00:39:52,138
[allen_white]: the nineties that wasn't working

610
00:39:52,421 --> 00:39:52,663
[craig]: no help

611
00:39:52,860 --> 00:39:57,467
[allen_white]: but the idea of come to my
house and let's talk about something that's concerning

612
00:39:57,567 --> 00:40:00,212
[allen_white]: to you concerning to me and let's
see what the bible has to say that

613
00:40:00,392 --> 00:40:05,967
[allen_white]: that worked now you guys actually created
your own small group corriculum uh for this

614
00:40:06,047 --> 00:40:07,376
[allen_white]: assignment tell us about that

615
00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:16,348
[craig]: we did so we put together a
team after our pastoral staff had determined the

616
00:40:16,389 --> 00:40:18,453
[craig]: topics and so we put together

617
00:40:18,220 --> 00:40:18,446
[allen_white]: oh

618
00:40:18,553 --> 00:40:19,755
[craig]: a team of volunteers for

619
00:40:19,750 --> 00:40:20,010
[allen_white]: oh

620
00:40:19,816 --> 00:40:26,840
[craig]: a church and said here it is
go to town gave them some examples of

621
00:40:27,501 --> 00:40:31,946
[craig]: what we might want it to look
like and really turn it over to some

622
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:31,931
[allen_white]: oh

623
00:40:32,006 --> 00:40:34,640
[craig]: folks unbeknown to us at the time

624
00:40:34,828 --> 00:40:34,989
[allen_white]: yeah

625
00:40:35,281 --> 00:40:41,331
[craig]: o had connections there of their own
to people who write coriculum and range and

626
00:40:41,712 --> 00:40:44,797
[craig]: produce criculum and so you

627
00:40:44,779 --> 00:40:44,800
[allen_white]: m

628
00:40:44,837 --> 00:40:51,481
[craig]: know we we bathed this thing in
prayer early on and god just continued to

629
00:40:51,581 --> 00:40:58,968
[craig]: open door after door after door larsually
unnoticed to us till after the fact and

630
00:41:01,092 --> 00:41:03,956
[craig]: so you know we learned you know
you learn all these lessons along the way

631
00:41:03,996 --> 00:41:07,322
[craig]: that you don't know that you're going
to learn as you go but you're willing

632
00:41:07,248 --> 00:41:07,780
[allen_white]: hm

633
00:41:07,362 --> 00:41:08,724
[craig]: to take a look and see

634
00:41:09,070 --> 00:41:09,270
[allen_white]: oh

635
00:41:09,906 --> 00:41:16,180
[craig]: and so we a team of volunteers
put together one of the best steady guides

636
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:20,103
[craig]: i have had the opportunity to lead
a group through

637
00:41:20,889 --> 00:41:21,070
[allen_white]: yeah

638
00:41:21,744 --> 00:41:21,904
[craig]: as a

639
00:41:21,919 --> 00:41:21,939
[allen_white]: m

640
00:41:21,964 --> 00:41:27,041
[craig]: small group pastor they did a rock
star job and it was beautiful

641
00:41:27,700 --> 00:41:27,720
[allen_white]: m

642
00:41:28,611 --> 00:41:30,981
[craig]: it was beautiful to use it was
beautiful to watch to

643
00:41:31,030 --> 00:41:31,230
[allen_white]: oh

644
00:41:31,061 --> 00:41:36,975
[craig]: them come to a complete project and
draw a line under and be able to

645
00:41:37,035 --> 00:41:45,588
[craig]: say who did it to hear really
positive feedback from our church um and and

646
00:41:45,648 --> 00:41:46,189
[craig]: to see even

647
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:46,140
[allen_white]: m

648
00:41:46,269 --> 00:41:50,937
[craig]: our current groups jump in and say
well and you know tom alluded to that

649
00:41:51,017 --> 00:41:52,199
[craig]: earlier we we we spent

650
00:41:52,330 --> 00:41:52,350
[allen_white]: m

651
00:41:52,620 --> 00:41:53,160
[craig]: it was it was

652
00:41:53,170 --> 00:41:53,397
[allen_white]: oh

653
00:41:53,281 --> 00:41:55,625
[craig]: six months process from the time i
handed them

654
00:41:55,510 --> 00:41:55,530
[allen_white]: m

655
00:41:55,905 --> 00:41:58,630
[craig]: until we produced the end so it
was six months

656
00:41:59,149 --> 00:41:59,170
[allen_white]: m

657
00:41:59,912 --> 00:42:04,279
[craig]: of writing and rewriting and you had
given me a book a small little book

658
00:42:04,479 --> 00:42:07,645
[craig]: on how to ask good questions i
gave copies of all

659
00:42:07,598 --> 00:42:08,170
[allen_white]: hm

660
00:42:07,725 --> 00:42:11,812
[craig]: that little book to all those folks
they read it i can tell they read

661
00:42:11,872 --> 00:42:17,523
[craig]: it because of the questions that they
put into the criculum and then we got

662
00:42:17,583 --> 00:42:24,310
[craig]: to the end result some of our
small groups long standing small groups started read

663
00:42:24,370 --> 00:42:26,456
[craig]: through it and said hey

664
00:42:26,901 --> 00:42:27,550
[allen_white]: okay

665
00:42:27,949 --> 00:42:34,179
[craig]: we want to do this how can
we weren't invited to do this so we

666
00:42:34,259 --> 00:42:38,647
[craig]: went back through the sneak peak talk
with him again and said you're always welcome

667
00:42:38,707 --> 00:42:43,070
[craig]: to do this our target is and
work through the whole thing and yet god

668
00:42:43,170 --> 00:42:49,119
[craig]: too had a work to do and
our current groups to help them with some

669
00:42:49,159 --> 00:42:53,276
[craig]: of the same things that we knew
our community wanted to engage in scrirtualing

670
00:42:54,700 --> 00:42:59,047
[allen_white]: that's very cool i remember back in
the day when i first did this and

671
00:42:59,127 --> 00:43:04,817
[allen_white]: our established groups we were going so
fast we didn't even invite our established groups

672
00:43:04,877 --> 00:43:07,241
[allen_white]: to be a part of it and
so some of us trust came to me

673
00:43:07,281 --> 00:43:09,725
[allen_white]: and they said hey can we do
this or is this only for new groups

674
00:43:09,765 --> 00:43:16,155
[allen_white]: and i said you know well what's
it worth to you and i'm such a

675
00:43:16,216 --> 00:43:16,837
[allen_white]: compassionate

676
00:43:16,818 --> 00:43:17,165
[craig]: uh

677
00:43:17,017 --> 00:43:17,277
[allen_white]: aster

678
00:43:17,757 --> 00:43:17,778
[craig]: h

679
00:43:17,798 --> 00:43:22,166
[allen_white]: right so you is created this cricket
and if i remember right this was largely

680
00:43:22,306 --> 00:43:23,628
[allen_white]: a volunteer team

681
00:43:23,578 --> 00:43:25,522
[craig]: yes yes it was

682
00:43:26,020 --> 00:43:26,080
[allen_white]: so

683
00:43:26,268 --> 00:43:26,898
[craig]: my

684
00:43:26,902 --> 00:43:30,568
[allen_white]: so they gave it so this wasn't
go and you know get all the staff

685
00:43:30,628 --> 00:43:35,316
[allen_white]: members on this this was mostly a
volunteer team so then you recruited leaders and

686
00:43:35,396 --> 00:43:40,950
[allen_white]: connected people into groups but you did
this a little differently and i believe tom

687
00:43:41,010 --> 00:43:43,358
[allen_white]: was kind of a leading voice in
doing that if i'm not wrong

688
00:43:44,529 --> 00:43:50,515
[craig]: no tom was one of the things
that we learned through expenental groups is the

689
00:43:50,555 --> 00:43:54,732
[craig]: person who has to really champion groups
as your senior

690
00:43:54,610 --> 00:43:55,270
[allen_white]: yeah

691
00:43:54,773 --> 00:44:00,246
[craig]: pastor and it was kind of funny
so so we did this in january because

692
00:44:01,008 --> 00:44:07,995
[craig]: in the rhythm of our community we
really see our church greatest church attendants from

693
00:44:08,095 --> 00:44:08,996
[craig]: christmas to easter

694
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:09,841
[allen_white]: oh

695
00:44:09,808 --> 00:44:15,059
[craig]: and so we decided to do our
alignment series when our folks gather in the

696
00:44:15,119 --> 00:44:18,945
[craig]: greatest numbers which is in the winter
time and so i have

697
00:44:18,883 --> 00:44:19,450
[allen_white]: hm

698
00:44:19,045 --> 00:44:25,356
[craig]: written a kind of an introductory for
tom to share as he for the first

699
00:44:25,496 --> 00:44:33,109
[craig]: week recruited uh folks to host and
we shared that with you just kind of

700
00:44:33,269 --> 00:44:35,493
[craig]: to take a peek at it and
you came back and said

701
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:35,700
[allen_white]: m

702
00:44:35,753 --> 00:44:36,434
[craig]: you scared me

703
00:44:37,450 --> 00:44:37,731
[allen_white]: oh

704
00:44:39,359 --> 00:44:42,842
[craig]: that was on me tom was just
reading and doing what i wrote

705
00:44:42,829 --> 00:44:42,850
[allen_white]: h

706
00:44:42,883 --> 00:44:45,065
[craig]: him and i went back and like
oh shoot i got to go back to

707
00:44:45,105 --> 00:44:48,690
[craig]: the drawing board so it was all
crags

708
00:44:49,194 --> 00:44:51,618
[allen_white]: you guys you guys are becoming the
monsters

709
00:44:51,668 --> 00:44:51,748
[craig]: you

710
00:44:51,718 --> 00:44:51,919
[allen_white]: in the

711
00:44:51,849 --> 00:44:51,989
[craig]: were

712
00:44:51,979 --> 00:44:52,459
[allen_white]: closet

713
00:44:52,089 --> 00:44:52,830
[craig]: the monsters

714
00:44:53,541 --> 00:44:54,383
[allen_white]: you're freaking them

715
00:44:54,473 --> 00:44:54,493
[craig]: i

716
00:44:54,523 --> 00:44:54,663
[allen_white]: out

717
00:44:54,613 --> 00:44:54,794
[craig]: dare

718
00:44:54,743 --> 00:44:54,984
[allen_white]: i think

719
00:44:54,854 --> 00:44:55,054
[craig]: because

720
00:44:55,024 --> 00:44:55,224
[allen_white]: that's

721
00:44:55,114 --> 00:44:55,255
[craig]: you're

722
00:44:55,264 --> 00:44:55,885
[allen_white]: what i said

723
00:44:59,408 --> 00:44:59,508
[craig]: so

724
00:45:00,223 --> 00:45:00,364
[allen_white]: but

725
00:45:00,530 --> 00:45:01,833
[craig]: so so so we

726
00:45:02,021 --> 00:45:02,122
[allen_white]: but

727
00:45:02,033 --> 00:45:02,534
[craig]: rewrote

728
00:45:02,182 --> 00:45:04,328
[allen_white]: you pivoted we did that during the
pandemic

729
00:45:04,057 --> 00:45:05,821
[craig]: did a much more positive approach

730
00:45:06,074 --> 00:45:06,094
[allen_white]: a

731
00:45:06,241 --> 00:45:11,145
[craig]: and so for three weeks time it
up and encouraged people to

732
00:45:11,581 --> 00:45:11,602
[allen_white]: h

733
00:45:11,991 --> 00:45:12,354
[craig]: ostagrup

734
00:45:12,469 --> 00:45:13,177
[allen_white]: h oh

735
00:45:13,801 --> 00:45:16,632
[craig]: on a sunday morning and they did
yeah

736
00:45:18,021 --> 00:45:21,812
[allen_white]: let's talk about the result of that
how many groups did you gain how many

737
00:45:22,053 --> 00:45:23,878
[allen_white]: and then talk about the people who
joined these groups

738
00:45:24,538 --> 00:45:29,186
[craig]: yeah so we ended up with twelve
new groups which in twenty three years we've

739
00:45:30,048 --> 00:45:35,585
[craig]: we come close to having twelve groups
any one single time let alone any year

740
00:45:36,117 --> 00:45:36,670
[allen_white]: hm

741
00:45:36,603 --> 00:45:46,210
[craig]: start um m and eight of those
groups finished the six weeks series and we've

742
00:45:46,270 --> 00:45:51,511
[craig]: had five of those groups continue on
this spring and those

743
00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:51,693
[allen_white]: that's

744
00:45:51,591 --> 00:45:51,812
[craig]: groups

745
00:45:51,794 --> 00:45:52,120
[allen_white]: great

746
00:45:51,872 --> 00:46:03,875
[craig]: have reached unchurched relatives neighbors business associates
friends um m it's been amazing

747
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,307
[allen_white]: and so from what you were saying
before and these weren't necessarily people that were

748
00:46:10,347 --> 00:46:14,317
[allen_white]: out of the established groups they were
still meeting but these were folks that maybe

749
00:46:14,437 --> 00:46:15,339
[allen_white]: had never led a group

750
00:46:20,498 --> 00:46:25,455
[craig]: most of these folks had never led
a group before our one pre requisite was

751
00:46:25,776 --> 00:46:34,109
[craig]: do you have eight to twelve friends
co workers or family who can participate with

752
00:46:34,149 --> 00:46:39,095
[craig]: you and join you in a group
and if that's the case you're qualified to

753
00:46:39,155 --> 00:46:40,337
[craig]: facilitate will help you

754
00:46:44,761 --> 00:46:47,347
[craig]: my it's all good

755
00:46:51,878 --> 00:46:54,974
[craig]: so we i'll pause here for a
second so you have a pause

756
00:47:03,198 --> 00:47:04,518
[craig]: yeah

757
00:47:10,108 --> 00:47:15,116
[craig]: so we just simply said to our
church if you have anywhere from eight to

758
00:47:15,176 --> 00:47:22,769
[craig]: twelve friends co workers neighbors anybody that
you could invite to participate group with you

759
00:47:23,229 --> 00:47:26,976
[craig]: then you're qualified to be a facilitator
and we're going to help you we're going

760
00:47:26,996 --> 00:47:30,702
[craig]: to give you a guide you're going
to get coaching from crag and some other

761
00:47:30,782 --> 00:47:35,511
[craig]: coaches every single week to prepare you
and i think that was the first time

762
00:47:35,591 --> 00:47:40,404
[craig]: for a lot of people who went
oh i might be able to do this

763
00:47:41,208 --> 00:47:45,475
[craig]: we had to arrange we had a
couple of groups that one guy particularly i

764
00:47:45,535 --> 00:47:50,503
[craig]: think of had four neighbors and he
met with them and he was doing a

765
00:47:50,523 --> 00:47:54,653
[craig]: really good job until they started asking
him a bunch of questions about faith and

766
00:47:55,315 --> 00:47:58,285
[craig]: he was like you know but we
had coco

767
00:48:02,868 --> 00:48:05,358
[craig]: yeah

768
00:48:11,168 --> 00:48:12,875
[craig]: that's okay you want us to log
out also

769
00:48:20,488 --> 00:48:22,815
[craig]: okay i'll do that very good

770
00:48:59,821 --> 00:49:00,652
[allen_white]: okay i'm back

771
00:49:02,030 --> 00:49:02,456
[craig]: we're back

772
00:49:03,121 --> 00:49:04,434
[allen_white]: now i have two crags

773
00:49:05,018 --> 00:49:08,031
[craig]: oh well

774
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,968
[allen_white]: i don't know i keep telling me
i have low browser storage

775
00:49:11,898 --> 00:49:11,939
[craig]: h

776
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:14,190
[allen_white]: i don't know what's going

777
00:49:13,967 --> 00:49:13,988
[craig]: m

778
00:49:14,332 --> 00:49:22,595
[allen_white]: on okay well let's well we'll finish
and then we'll go from there yeah crag

779
00:49:22,716 --> 00:49:28,942
[allen_white]: your other crag is coming in so
anyway all right so o i'm sorry let's

780
00:49:29,003 --> 00:49:32,550
[allen_white]: start again with what you were just
sharing yeah

781
00:49:33,588 --> 00:49:36,012
[craig]: so we simply invited people

782
00:49:36,300 --> 00:49:37,680
[allen_white]: yeah

783
00:49:36,412 --> 00:49:42,382
[craig]: if you had eight to twelve friends
neighbors co workers to join you in dealing

784
00:49:42,442 --> 00:49:47,732
[craig]: with some of these monsters then you're
qualified to facilitate it o and people suddenly

785
00:49:47,813 --> 00:49:54,292
[craig]: thought i do have people i would
love to engage spiritual conversation s with and

786
00:49:55,093 --> 00:50:00,102
[craig]: they felt qualified to be a facilitator
and we promise we'll coach you will help

787
00:50:00,202 --> 00:50:04,569
[craig]: you there's some coaches that craig was
working with and craig sentine i think every

788
00:50:04,629 --> 00:50:09,938
[craig]: week out to these coaches and encourage
them asked them for feedback and it was

789
00:50:10,018 --> 00:50:14,325
[craig]: a beautiful thing for those weeks as
a matter of fact we had one guy

790
00:50:14,405 --> 00:50:20,095
[craig]: his name i want tell you but
he asked his neighbors he said hey i'd

791
00:50:20,155 --> 00:50:24,522
[craig]: like to do this group and they
said yes they scratch the surface with what

792
00:50:24,582 --> 00:50:28,168
[craig]: we provided and sudden they started asking
a bunch of other deep spiritual questions he

793
00:50:28,248 --> 00:50:28,389
[craig]: said

794
00:50:29,550 --> 00:50:30,330
[allen_white]: yeah

795
00:50:29,591 --> 00:50:35,224
[craig]: i'm out i'm unqualified for this but
he did it he tried it and he

796
00:50:35,304 --> 00:50:40,663
[craig]: said we won't continue on but were
open the door for spiritual conversations

797
00:50:41,870 --> 00:50:47,118
[allen_white]: that's fantastic that's so fantastic so let
me ask you that's just the last question

798
00:50:47,259 --> 00:50:52,688
[allen_white]: what what's next for mountain view where
you guys headed in the next season or

799
00:50:52,828 --> 00:50:56,767
[allen_white]: with groups or a church we what's
kind of percolating up for you

800
00:50:58,679 --> 00:51:02,265
[craig]: yeah so at least as far as
groups goes what's next is we have been

801
00:51:02,345 --> 00:51:09,437
[craig]: able to with the addition of an
alignment series really for the first time have

802
00:51:10,339 --> 00:51:18,272
[craig]: several ways to help connect people to
groups we have a jump on host opportunity

803
00:51:18,372 --> 00:51:23,340
[craig]: and an alignment series we have some
solid training for folks that come that have

804
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,385
[craig]: led a group in the past but
never a mountain view just to help them

805
00:51:26,445 --> 00:51:32,195
[craig]: understand what what we expect of groups
and group leaders and then we have a

806
00:51:32,796 --> 00:51:38,465
[craig]: brorupis fair in the fall that helps
connect folks that are here and ready to

807
00:51:38,866 --> 00:51:44,756
[craig]: liking plug and play they've come to
mountain view they've had small group of experience

808
00:51:44,796 --> 00:51:47,408
[craig]: in the past they just are ready
to jump in and they don't want to

809
00:51:47,449 --> 00:51:58,174
[craig]: wait until january and so really we
we have a clear multi faceted way to

810
00:51:59,848 --> 00:52:06,589
[craig]: people into and to start new groups
that really i think is gonna continue to

811
00:52:06,649 --> 00:52:10,857
[craig]: help us be a church groups not
just a church with bruce

812
00:52:21,159 --> 00:52:23,102
[craig]: men he

813
00:52:29,220 --> 00:52:29,240
[craig]: i

814
00:52:31,114 --> 00:52:31,522
[allen_white]: program

815
00:52:32,779 --> 00:52:38,395
[craig]: i just i just told tom this
may not be allan's friend

816
00:52:38,993 --> 00:52:42,478
[allen_white]: no it's not i mean i do
i usually record on zoom and everything is

817
00:52:42,519 --> 00:52:46,726
[allen_white]: fine the advantage of this is it
splits out the channel so i can edit

818
00:52:46,906 --> 00:52:51,173
[allen_white]: but yeah it's it's not my friend
so what we'll do is we'll say by

819
00:52:51,994 --> 00:52:57,744
[allen_white]: and hopefully i got everything that i
need otherwise ill be calling you saying hey

820
00:52:57,864 --> 00:53:00,549
[allen_white]: the thing we did yesterday yeah we
need to do it again

821
00:53:01,161 --> 00:53:01,383
[craig]: again

822
00:53:01,911 --> 00:53:06,919
[allen_white]: so anyway right so tom cragg thank
you so much for being with me today

823
00:53:07,620 --> 00:53:14,632
[allen_white]: and thank you for applying these principles
to your church and just what an amazing

824
00:53:14,672 --> 00:53:16,468
[allen_white]: result and i'm just so happy for
you

825
00:53:18,829 --> 00:53:20,255
[craig]: thanks allen thinks allen

826
00:53:21,003 --> 00:53:23,320
[allen_white]: ye all right so i'm goin to
hit