WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.180 --> 00:00:09.240
It's wild how something so simple, yet so complex, she can bring it together like a collective. And honestly, I think there's an art to that.
2
00:00:09.700 --> 00:00:27.240
[gentle music] Hello, and welcome to Creative Crush, a podcast in which marketing's smartest minds step away from the brand and chat about a piece of culture that they keep returning to.
3
00:00:27.680 --> 00:00:41.340
And today we are talking to the multi-award-winning Mal Kor. Morning, Mal. Hi. How are you doing? I am very good. Um, even better for speaking to you today.
4
00:00:41.800 --> 00:00:51.680
Uh, for the audience, can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what it is you do? Yeah, definitely. So I'm Mal. I'm based in London.
5
00:00:52.180 --> 00:01:04.320
I would call myself traditionally a plumber marketeer who makes things happen. Um, more recently than not, I've also been looking at the painting side, so really bringing brand, demand, growth all together.
6
00:01:04.340 --> 00:01:12.580
I've been doing it for more than 15 years of my life, mostly with B2B tech companies and more recently with Fintech organizations.
7
00:01:13.060 --> 00:01:23.660
Very passionate about marketing, team's growth, evolution, and really where this place is gonna take us. Also, very excited to speak to you today about the creative crush.
8
00:01:23.700 --> 00:01:32.940
You're definitely gonna be challenging my own thoughts when it comes from a professional side and a personal end, so very excited to g- get into this. Fabulous.
9
00:01:32.980 --> 00:01:43.320
Well, as I said at the beginning, i- in this podcast we try to keep a little bit away from the brand talk and talk more about the, the cultural choice, but there'll be a little bit of crossover as we go.
10
00:01:43.400 --> 00:02:00.280
So for the audience, do you want to tell us who your creative crush is? Yeah, definitely. So my creative crush is no other than the wonderful Adele. [water bubbling] Go easy on me, baby.
11
00:02:01.320 --> 00:02:17.020
I was still a child. Didn't get the chance to feel the world around me. I had no time to choose
12
00:02:18.020 --> 00:02:25.560
what I chose to do. So go easy on me.
13
00:02:25.650 --> 00:02:39.660
[water bubbling] We're gonna delve into, uh, Adele's career and your life a little bit later on, but can we begin by just going back to, can you remember the very first time you ever heard Adele? Yeah, I do.
14
00:02:40.100 --> 00:02:53.960
I was in my late 20s, still back in sunny Singapore where I was born and raised, and I actually heard Hometown Glory, which was the very first song that I heard about. She was singing about her life in London.
15
00:02:54.420 --> 00:03:04.260
I was still in Singapore, absolutely not able to understand or relate to any of that. But the concept of home and meaning of home really resonated with me.
16
00:03:04.640 --> 00:03:17.740
I remember it being played on the radio at a local, uh, station and thinking, "This is actually really deep," and it's all about the meaning and concept of home. It's not about feels. It's not about life.
17
00:03:17.820 --> 00:03:28.040
It's just what home means to different people. [gentle music] Did you get to see it? Did she come over and play? Did you get to see her in concert around about that time? No, I didn't.
18
00:03:28.060 --> 00:03:37.120
I actually didn't get a chance to see her until the British Summer Time Festival that happened in 2022 in London, but yeah, it was a long time coming, and it was so nice.
19
00:03:37.180 --> 00:03:56.180
And again, you know, like, it speaks to the complexity of what she speaks about in terms of her feelings and, you know, how she really simplifies it and speaks to so many people in so few words about very specific feels and has the ability of bringing everybody together that way.
20
00:03:57.260 --> 00:04:11.840
Can we just dig into that simplicity? Because, you know, what she does is just so simple, like ridiculously simple. Why, why do you think that is so hard to do and to replicate?
21
00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:24.200
[laughs] Uh, I have opinions about this, actually, and I think it's just the world that we live in, you know, whether it's consumer lifestyle or behavioral or professional as well.
22
00:04:24.280 --> 00:04:31.060
You know, we live in a world where amplifying means you're bigger and better, and that's the way w- the world is now, right?
23
00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:37.100
Whether you're an individual or a business, you're thinking about, you know, how do you talk about yourself as a business?
24
00:04:37.140 --> 00:04:45.060
How do you talk about the fact that you're leveling up your life as a person or, you know, innovating your solutions and your software and so forth?
25
00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:57.500
But the reality is that Adele's, like, skill and art is really about simplifying it, right? She's so comfortable with the simple truth of her feelings.
26
00:04:57.940 --> 00:05:10.740
She's so okay with knowing that her core values are about her feels, how she, you know, interprets life in that moment, and she spends three minutes talking about it in the song.
27
00:05:10.780 --> 00:05:23.680
And, you know, she doesn't try to create any form of, like, layers on that feeling, but it's just a rawness, and she pretty much just digs really deep into that one simple world and feel.
28
00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:41.760
And then c- that can feel very complex, when the reality is people and businesses as well, we, you know, get so absorbed in just layering on innovation over technology over the next thing in the AI, when the reality is, let's not forget who we are from the core.
29
00:05:42.700 --> 00:05:49.500
And also there's, uh, for creatives, whether you are a creative in technology, in marketing, songwriting, or whatever,
30
00:05:50.420 --> 00:05:59.080
there is the temptation to think that the way to make something better is to add something, whereas most- Absolutely... of the time taking away is the answer, isn't it?
31
00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:13.224
So it's an undervalued, uh, part of the job, just removing something instead of adding something. 100%. And, like, I don't like getting theoretical about it, but it's ultimately what's your DNA, what's your brand's DNA.
32
00:06:13.284 --> 00:06:21.504
And no matter how much you amplify and, you know, take innovation or anything else over for that matter, you're still true to the core of who you are.
33
00:06:22.024 --> 00:06:35.224
And what Adele's so true to the core of who she is is that she's okay with her feels, she's okay with the complexity of each of her feels, and she's okay being vulnerable as well.
34
00:06:35.234 --> 00:06:47.744
And, you know, she lets that really come through, like her songs and her choice of words, and also the s- choice of music that, you know, accompanies the words that she sings.
35
00:06:50.204 --> 00:06:58.524
Can I just take you back to that vulnerability and authenticity? So I, I'm not a mega fan of Adele.
36
00:06:58.704 --> 00:07:11.324
Obviously she's a huge pop star, so I'm aware of, you know, all her work, and I've been fortunate enough to see her on a few occasions. Um, but I don't, I don't, I don't have a deep knowledge of who she is.
37
00:07:12.164 --> 00:07:26.944
So I just wondered, you know, that authenticity, can it be faked at all, do you think? Such a good question. Yeah, definitely. I think it can.
38
00:07:27.004 --> 00:07:35.204
However, I think there is a way to know if it's being faked or not, right? And I think that just comes down to, one, engagement, you know?
39
00:07:35.484 --> 00:07:43.924
And then the other piece is also where you are in life or your state of mind and what resonates with you and what doesn't resonate with you.
40
00:07:43.984 --> 00:08:01.644
Like, you know, like the evolution of humans and life phases we go, like, along in life, like something can feel really authentic to me today, but as I grow, I evolve into a different individual, and that same concept and that same thing might not resonate with me in the future.
41
00:08:02.164 --> 00:08:08.454
So I think there's something to say ab- about authenticity, and I think there's something to be said about faking it as well.
42
00:08:08.904 --> 00:08:21.744
But actually, the more I think about it, it's probably less about faking it, but how much it actually speaks to you at wherever you are in life and, you know, like the faints and, like, you know, the things that you're going through versus it not speaking to it.
43
00:08:22.104 --> 00:08:32.824
And maybe, maybe that's why you're not a fan of Adele yet, 'cause [laughs] the phases of life that you've been in and the kind of things that she's spoken about haven't really, like, collided that way.
44
00:08:32.964 --> 00:08:47.704
I will say, though, the next time you get a chance to see her, since you're not a super fan, I want your tickets. [laughs] Well, I'm very fortunate in that in a previous life I worked for Radio 1, and so, um, I was there
45
00:08:48.664 --> 00:08:56.734
in her very early years when she was just breaking through. So I'm kind of very fortunate to have seen her in super intim- intimate environ- environments. I've met her.
46
00:08:57.434 --> 00:09:13.044
I've been able to kind of chat to her away from the mic. So she'll, she is pretty authentic. In accepting his 2022 Grammy Award, uh, the musician Jon Batiste said, uh,
47
00:09:14.084 --> 00:09:27.384
"It's like a song or an album is made and it almost has a radar to find the person when they need it most." Yeah. So you kind of told us about three of your favorite Adele songs.
48
00:09:27.444 --> 00:09:37.984
Uh, I wanna chat to you about each of them individually to get a sense of whether you needed that song most at the time or whether it was just a nice soundtrack of whatever.
49
00:09:38.584 --> 00:09:42.904
So we're gonna begin with, you've kind of touched on it already, but let's talk about Hometown Glory.
50
00:09:43.424 --> 00:09:50.724
Tell us a little bit more about what you were doing at the time and why you think you might have needed a song like that at the time. Yeah, definitely.
51
00:09:50.904 --> 00:10:04.244
So Hometown Glory, back in the day in sunny Singapore, still a naive 20-year-old something, listening to this song that just felt so different from all the commercial tunes and, you know, the concept of home,
52
00:10:05.204 --> 00:10:10.304
home being described as the streets of London and the specificity of the things happening in London.
53
00:10:10.804 --> 00:10:21.284
Nothing that resonated with me, but just the fact that it was really strong vocal, powerful chords, very limited background music completely resonated with me.
54
00:10:21.764 --> 00:10:34.504
And then a couple years after that song, you know, I did my big move where I packed my bags and moved to London, and have lived here, like, since then, right? And when I look back at that song, it's completely changed.
55
00:10:34.944 --> 00:10:39.964
At that point, it was the concept of home, like I don't know, home is Singapore. What else do I know?
56
00:10:40.014 --> 00:10:58.484
And I'm listening to this person sing and describe London, to now actually being in London but not really even look, hearing that song from the lens of, "Oh, this is my streets now that she talked about," but more so the fact that actually home isn't really, like, a location.
57
00:10:58.724 --> 00:11:05.024
You know? It's not London. It's not Manchester. It's not Singapore. It's a feeling. It's a state of mind.
58
00:11:05.074 --> 00:11:17.384
And you know, sometimes home is in the comfort of, you know, watching a movie in a cinema, going to a favorite concert, indulging in something, going on a holiday. State of mind, right?
59
00:11:17.454 --> 00:11:28.314
And I think more so now than even then, for me, that song has made me realize that, yeah, home code, home, home's not just your postcode. There's so much more.
60
00:11:28.324 --> 00:11:41.564
And again, it speaks to that authenticity and that state of mind you're in. In the early years of my move, I was so clear in my mind that there is the concept of home, and then there's the concept of home away from home.
61
00:11:42.144 --> 00:11:55.044
And then [laughs] the more I traveled back and forth 6,000, 6,000 miles, I re- realized the concept of reverse culture shock. [laughs] And I think that was when I realized that, you know what?
62
00:11:55.374 --> 00:12:24.452
There's no need to chase the concept of home away from home and all that 'cause, you know, a home served me for the time that I was born and raised, and then there was a home that served me for the time that, you know, my career had its go- growth trajectory, the time when I've made, like, some of the best friends of my life, you know, the time that I've met my partner, the time that I've got a mortgage, and all those milestones- Actually define what home is, as opposed to a move or where you're born and things like that.
63
00:12:26.672 --> 00:12:43.012
Okay, track number two, Someone Like You. Tell me a bit about why that found you like radar and why you might have needed it at that point of your life. Yeah. Ooh. [laughs] That's an interesting one, right?
64
00:12:43.192 --> 00:12:55.512
Like, how can you appreciate Adele and not like Someone Like You? There's only three things that make that song. It's her voice, it's a piano, and it's a very strong story.
65
00:12:56.432 --> 00:13:04.852
And what, in that three, four-minute song that she sings, she talks about lots of different things at the same time, right?
66
00:13:05.352 --> 00:13:21.052
She speaks about sadness, she talks about somebody moving on, she talks about jealousy, she talks about acceptance. And she's okay talking about all those things at the same time in one song.
67
00:13:21.072 --> 00:13:31.292
And I think the typical piece there with that song is it's a heartbreak song. It's a song about losing something in your life and being okay with it.
68
00:13:32.172 --> 00:13:41.932
And now, again, I think the piece with Adele songs is it means something in one moment, and as you're a different person, as life evolves, it can mean something completely different.
69
00:13:42.522 --> 00:13:54.482
And, you know, like the more I've grown in life, it's a song I can come back to when, you know, it's a missed friendship or a missed phase or a missed opportunity in life, 'cause that's what it's really about.
70
00:13:54.512 --> 00:14:10.192
That, you know, you're like this one, like, phase of my life that's done and I'm okay feeling X, Y, Z about it, and I'm okay with it. And maybe a little bit bitter, but it's okay to put it all out there.
71
00:14:10.652 --> 00:14:27.012
And I'm gonna slowly but surely move on. And again, it's a typical heartbreak song and obviously when I heard it, again, late 20s, right? But it means so much more and it's so different now and it's so important too.
72
00:14:27.092 --> 00:14:36.592
And also, it's a song about vulnerability, but she sings it and projects it with such confidence 'cause she's so okay with that vulnerability.
73
00:14:37.512 --> 00:14:48.972
And it's wild how a song that talks about so many different feelings that we've all felt at different parts of our life for different reasons can come together as a collective.
74
00:14:49.741 --> 00:15:03.592
And, you know, it takes me back to that British Summer Time festival where everybody was singing that song at the same time. But this, and you know, the, like, entire Hyde Park was just raised with feels.
75
00:15:04.132 --> 00:15:09.732
You know, all sorts of feels, and you can just feel that. It's still giving me goosebump thinking about that.
76
00:15:10.072 --> 00:15:23.412
But it's wild how something so simple yet so complex, she can bring it together like a collective, and honestly, I think there's an art to that. Yeah, you touched on it nicely there, where you talked about, uh,
77
00:15:24.812 --> 00:15:38.152
something so vulnerable yet sang with such confidence. And that is a really nice thing. It's a comforting thing to hear because as a listener, you've dropped into that moment of vulnerability, aren't you?
78
00:15:38.192 --> 00:15:41.932
You're kind of hearing the person's pain. Yeah.
79
00:15:41.952 --> 00:15:51.752
But to hear her sing it so confidently and, um, there's a phrase that I keep coming back to that I've mentioned a few times in this podcast, but sometimes a, a really brilliant song
80
00:15:52.812 --> 00:16:01.912
or a piece of art of anything else can just feel like a really good cuddle. It can feel- Yeah... like a song wraps its arms around you and makes you feel warm and, and fuzzy.
81
00:16:01.952 --> 00:16:11.252
And when you can experience vulnerability and that cuddle at the same time, well, that's something quite remarkable, isn't it? Absolutely.
82
00:16:11.272 --> 00:16:25.612
It makes me think about the fact that actually clarity can carry such big weight in ways that you don't even understand. And funnily, a song about feels make me think about the business world so much as well.
83
00:16:26.212 --> 00:16:42.872
It made me think about the fact that most brands, consumers, products, solutions, the reality is that there's good bits to a brand, a product, and a solution, and there's some not so good things about a b- brand and a solution and a product, right?
84
00:16:43.432 --> 00:16:52.852
Yeah. And it goes back to what we spoke about earlier, where we are so fixated on layering on the next shiny thing, and we forget what's at the DNA.
85
00:16:52.932 --> 00:16:58.252
And actually, the reality is in that DNA there are some good things, and there are not very good things.
86
00:16:58.312 --> 00:17:10.182
And actually, successful solutions in businesses also comes from the lens of, "I know I don't have this, and I'm okay with it because I'm gonna be able to bring X, Y, Z to the business," right? So- Yeah...
87
00:17:10.252 --> 00:17:35.132
that lens of vulnerability that, you know, a lot of people are getting more acclimatized with in their personal lives, but I think even from a professional perspective for brands, consumers, business solutions as well, there's so much to be said about actually digging in deep and looking at what your solutions are doing and also not doing, and being okay to address them like Adele did in her song.
88
00:17:37.552 --> 00:17:50.672
Okay, and finally, the third song, Hold On. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, definitely. I love Hold On. You know what? I've also got it printed and put up in my flat.
89
00:17:50.872 --> 00:18:01.992
It was a present from my husband when we were dating back in the day as a housewarming present, and little did he know that it meant so much to me 'cause of some of the lyrics and words in it.
90
00:18:02.072 --> 00:18:16.612
And it just happened to be, I think by chance, you know, saying that I like Adele and there are some songs that mean so much. I actually have a frame up on my wall today with some of the incredible lyrics from that song.
91
00:18:17.192 --> 00:18:20.092
I could say so much about Hold On 'cause I love it that much.
92
00:18:20.352 --> 00:18:31.556
It was out in 2022, 2023 Um, it's actually one of the three songs that we've discussed today that actually doesn't have, like, a music video to it or anything of that sort.
93
00:18:32.096 --> 00:18:43.796
So it's not like, you know, you have all that going on that kinda amplifies it. It's literally just the song by itself. Um, Hold On is about the uncomfortable in between.
94
00:18:44.556 --> 00:18:59.496
So you know when something happens in your life and you're upset or happy and uncomfortable, and then more often than not, we feel like we need to transition to the next bit where life is great and everything's okay and things have fallen into place.
95
00:19:00.136 --> 00:19:10.456
Hold On speaks about that time in between where it's okay to be uncomfortable. It's okay to be scared about what's gonna come next.
96
00:19:11.136 --> 00:19:18.276
Uncertainty is fine, and it will unfold into something beautiful in the future.
97
00:19:19.036 --> 00:19:32.896
Um, it was just a song that I heard in 2022 and 2023, and it made me think about, whoa, this is so true, 'cause as a person and as an individual, I'm the kind of person that kinda powers on. You know?
98
00:19:32.916 --> 00:19:38.956
Like, one thing happens, and then you just kind of like just, like, box off all your feels and then just go move on to your next piece.
99
00:19:38.996 --> 00:19:51.216
And here was a song that I heard that suddenly exposes all the things that a, a human goes through, but as a person, I just minimize all the way 'cause I need to kinda get onto the next phase, right?
100
00:19:51.666 --> 00:19:56.636
And here we are in 2026, and I feel like the song resonates with me again. You know?
101
00:19:56.696 --> 00:20:10.356
I've just been at a state where, you know, I've been doing so much in the fintech space and got so much of recognition, and I'm about to build my next chapter, which is gonna be go work with these fintech organizations from a different lens.
102
00:20:10.836 --> 00:20:13.836
Go help the marketeers there become a better version of themself.
103
00:20:13.896 --> 00:20:27.696
And again, it's gonna be a whole new chapter, which comes with a lot of uncertainty, but what that song has reminded me is that the uncertainty is here today 'cause the fear of change is because of the unknown.
104
00:20:28.416 --> 00:20:41.936
But the reality is this whole transition period only leads you to a place where things will unfold, and it will all fall into place in a very beautiful way. The song talks about holding on
105
00:20:43.436 --> 00:20:54.596
and let time be patient, and it talks about strength and, like, the time will come. And the reality is we don't allow ourselves the time to s- and space to think about all that.
106
00:20:55.036 --> 00:21:05.416
We don't allow ourself the time and space to be patient with ourselves 'cause we just need to get out of that phase 'cause, you know, the clock is ticking, and you need to go do the next thing.
107
00:21:05.446 --> 00:21:13.236
And the reality is when you're not actually being patient with yourself, you're not even allowing yourself the space and time to think about the right thing.
108
00:21:13.285 --> 00:21:23.356
And more often than not, you then end up just doing disservice to yourself. We're coming towards the end of the podcast now, but I just wanted to ask you, um, have you ever met Adele?
109
00:21:24.416 --> 00:21:37.936
Not face to face, but you'll make it happen one day, I know. [laughs] Well, what are you gonna ask her? When you meet her, what's the one thing you'd like to ask her? What drives that
110
00:21:38.996 --> 00:21:49.396
comfort within her to be so okay with being vulnerable and so honest with her audience and being fine with that? Like, where does it really come from?
111
00:21:49.456 --> 00:21:59.155
Like, for me personally, I know it comes from co- good conversations, conversations like this. Um, but for Adele, it must come from somewhere within.
112
00:21:59.336 --> 00:22:10.116
And I wanna know what's that that's deeply rooted in her that makes her feel, "I'm okay being that girl from South London. We speak in a certain way. We carry ourselves in a certain way.
113
00:22:10.716 --> 00:22:21.816
You know, from South London, I'm in LA, and I'm gonna be in and out the scene, and I'm okay with it." And, like, every time she's away, different phases of life, different stories come out.
114
00:22:21.905 --> 00:22:34.736
And what is it that in between that, like, peaks and troughs of her life brings her back to the point that I'm gonna spend some time curating this and sharing it with my audience? Wonderful.
115
00:22:36.676 --> 00:22:45.856
Before we go, is there anything that y- I've not asked you that you wanted to tell? Can you tell us what you're doing next? Yeah, definitely.
116
00:22:45.936 --> 00:22:55.096
So as I said, I've been a planner for so long, orchestrating, go to market, and making things happen. It's the top thing that's brought me lots of joy.
117
00:22:55.476 --> 00:23:02.976
Alongside with that, the painting element of, like, marketing with brand and content has also brought me lots of joy.
118
00:23:03.006 --> 00:23:13.076
And the next thing I wanna do is bring the intersection of these areas and also help companies, functions, and even marketeers be better versions of themself.
119
00:23:13.116 --> 00:23:23.116
You know, we are often bucketed, again, as, like, creative professionals in worlds that are around qualitative measures and quantitative measures.
120
00:23:23.156 --> 00:23:36.496
And yeah, I'm gonna be on a mission of bringing those worlds together, making them collide, and then ultimately make creative magic. Fabulous. And where can people find you? So you can find me on LinkedIn.
121
00:23:36.516 --> 00:23:48.646
I'll share my details. Um, I've also got a little we- website. It's called Melketing, so that's Mel and marketing married together. See what you've done there. Like it. Yeah. [laughs] I was born to do this, wasn't I?
122
00:23:49.436 --> 00:23:58.416
Well, thank you so much for taking part today. It's been a fascinating conversation. I've loved chatting Adele with you. Thank you to everyone who's watching or listening.
123
00:23:58.576 --> 00:24:13.016
If you're new, you can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're also on YouTube, and you can even watch us on Spotify now. Amal, thank you so much.
124
00:24:13.576 --> 00:24:29.916
Look forward to chatting to you again soon. Thank you so much for having me. All the best. Speak soon. Bye now. Bye. [outro music]
1
00:00:00.180 --> 00:00:09.240
It's wild how something so simple, yet so complex, she can bring it together like a collective. And honestly, I think there's an art to that.
2
00:00:09.700 --> 00:00:27.240
[gentle music] Hello, and welcome to Creative Crush, a podcast in which marketing's smartest minds step away from the brand and chat about a piece of culture that they keep returning to.
3
00:00:27.680 --> 00:00:41.340
And today we are talking to the multi-award-winning Mal Kor. Morning, Mal. Hi. How are you doing? I am very good. Um, even better for speaking to you today.
4
00:00:41.800 --> 00:00:51.680
Uh, for the audience, can you tell us a little bit about who you are and what it is you do? Yeah, definitely. So I'm Mal. I'm based in London.
5
00:00:52.180 --> 00:01:04.320
I would call myself traditionally a plumber marketeer who makes things happen. Um, more recently than not, I've also been looking at the painting side, so really bringing brand, demand, growth all together.
6
00:01:04.340 --> 00:01:12.580
I've been doing it for more than 15 years of my life, mostly with B2B tech companies and more recently with Fintech organizations.
7
00:01:13.060 --> 00:01:23.660
Very passionate about marketing, team's growth, evolution, and really where this place is gonna take us. Also, very excited to speak to you today about the creative crush.
8
00:01:23.700 --> 00:01:32.940
You're definitely gonna be challenging my own thoughts when it comes from a professional side and a personal end, so very excited to g- get into this. Fabulous.
9
00:01:32.980 --> 00:01:43.320
Well, as I said at the beginning, i- in this podcast we try to keep a little bit away from the brand talk and talk more about the, the cultural choice, but there'll be a little bit of crossover as we go.
10
00:01:43.400 --> 00:02:00.280
So for the audience, do you want to tell us who your creative crush is? Yeah, definitely. So my creative crush is no other than the wonderful Adele. [water bubbling] Go easy on me, baby.
11
00:02:01.320 --> 00:02:17.020
I was still a child. Didn't get the chance to feel the world around me. I had no time to choose
12
00:02:18.020 --> 00:02:25.560
what I chose to do. So go easy on me.
13
00:02:25.650 --> 00:02:39.660
[water bubbling] We're gonna delve into, uh, Adele's career and your life a little bit later on, but can we begin by just going back to, can you remember the very first time you ever heard Adele? Yeah, I do.
14
00:02:40.100 --> 00:02:53.960
I was in my late 20s, still back in sunny Singapore where I was born and raised, and I actually heard Hometown Glory, which was the very first song that I heard about. She was singing about her life in London.
15
00:02:54.420 --> 00:03:04.260
I was still in Singapore, absolutely not able to understand or relate to any of that. But the concept of home and meaning of home really resonated with me.
16
00:03:04.640 --> 00:03:17.740
I remember it being played on the radio at a local, uh, station and thinking, "This is actually really deep," and it's all about the meaning and concept of home. It's not about feels. It's not about life.
17
00:03:17.820 --> 00:03:28.040
It's just what home means to different people. [gentle music] Did you get to see it? Did she come over and play? Did you get to see her in concert around about that time? No, I didn't.
18
00:03:28.060 --> 00:03:37.120
I actually didn't get a chance to see her until the British Summer Time Festival that happened in 2022 in London, but yeah, it was a long time coming, and it was so nice.
19
00:03:37.180 --> 00:03:56.180
And again, you know, like, it speaks to the complexity of what she speaks about in terms of her feelings and, you know, how she really simplifies it and speaks to so many people in so few words about very specific feels and has the ability of bringing everybody together that way.
20
00:03:57.260 --> 00:04:11.840
Can we just dig into that simplicity? Because, you know, what she does is just so simple, like ridiculously simple. Why, why do you think that is so hard to do and to replicate?
21
00:04:12.560 --> 00:04:24.200
[laughs] Uh, I have opinions about this, actually, and I think it's just the world that we live in, you know, whether it's consumer lifestyle or behavioral or professional as well.
22
00:04:24.280 --> 00:04:31.060
You know, we live in a world where amplifying means you're bigger and better, and that's the way w- the world is now, right?
23
00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:37.100
Whether you're an individual or a business, you're thinking about, you know, how do you talk about yourself as a business?
24
00:04:37.140 --> 00:04:45.060
How do you talk about the fact that you're leveling up your life as a person or, you know, innovating your solutions and your software and so forth?
25
00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:57.500
But the reality is that Adele's, like, skill and art is really about simplifying it, right? She's so comfortable with the simple truth of her feelings.
26
00:04:57.940 --> 00:05:10.740
She's so okay with knowing that her core values are about her feels, how she, you know, interprets life in that moment, and she spends three minutes talking about it in the song.
27
00:05:10.780 --> 00:05:23.680
And, you know, she doesn't try to create any form of, like, layers on that feeling, but it's just a rawness, and she pretty much just digs really deep into that one simple world and feel.
28
00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:41.760
And then c- that can feel very complex, when the reality is people and businesses as well, we, you know, get so absorbed in just layering on innovation over technology over the next thing in the AI, when the reality is, let's not forget who we are from the core.
29
00:05:42.700 --> 00:05:49.500
And also there's, uh, for creatives, whether you are a creative in technology, in marketing, songwriting, or whatever,
30
00:05:50.420 --> 00:05:59.080
there is the temptation to think that the way to make something better is to add something, whereas most- Absolutely... of the time taking away is the answer, isn't it?
31
00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:13.224
So it's an undervalued, uh, part of the job, just removing something instead of adding something. 100%. And, like, I don't like getting theoretical about it, but it's ultimately what's your DNA, what's your brand's DNA.
32
00:06:13.284 --> 00:06:21.504
And no matter how much you amplify and, you know, take innovation or anything else over for that matter, you're still true to the core of who you are.
33
00:06:22.024 --> 00:06:35.224
And what Adele's so true to the core of who she is is that she's okay with her feels, she's okay with the complexity of each of her feels, and she's okay being vulnerable as well.
34
00:06:35.234 --> 00:06:47.744
And, you know, she lets that really come through, like her songs and her choice of words, and also the s- choice of music that, you know, accompanies the words that she sings.
35
00:06:50.204 --> 00:06:58.524
Can I just take you back to that vulnerability and authenticity? So I, I'm not a mega fan of Adele.
36
00:06:58.704 --> 00:07:11.324
Obviously she's a huge pop star, so I'm aware of, you know, all her work, and I've been fortunate enough to see her on a few occasions. Um, but I don't, I don't, I don't have a deep knowledge of who she is.
37
00:07:12.164 --> 00:07:26.944
So I just wondered, you know, that authenticity, can it be faked at all, do you think? Such a good question. Yeah, definitely. I think it can.
38
00:07:27.004 --> 00:07:35.204
However, I think there is a way to know if it's being faked or not, right? And I think that just comes down to, one, engagement, you know?
39
00:07:35.484 --> 00:07:43.924
And then the other piece is also where you are in life or your state of mind and what resonates with you and what doesn't resonate with you.
40
00:07:43.984 --> 00:08:01.644
Like, you know, like the evolution of humans and life phases we go, like, along in life, like something can feel really authentic to me today, but as I grow, I evolve into a different individual, and that same concept and that same thing might not resonate with me in the future.
41
00:08:02.164 --> 00:08:08.454
So I think there's something to say ab- about authenticity, and I think there's something to be said about faking it as well.
42
00:08:08.904 --> 00:08:21.744
But actually, the more I think about it, it's probably less about faking it, but how much it actually speaks to you at wherever you are in life and, you know, like the faints and, like, you know, the things that you're going through versus it not speaking to it.
43
00:08:22.104 --> 00:08:32.824
And maybe, maybe that's why you're not a fan of Adele yet, 'cause [laughs] the phases of life that you've been in and the kind of things that she's spoken about haven't really, like, collided that way.
44
00:08:32.964 --> 00:08:47.704
I will say, though, the next time you get a chance to see her, since you're not a super fan, I want your tickets. [laughs] Well, I'm very fortunate in that in a previous life I worked for Radio 1, and so, um, I was there
45
00:08:48.664 --> 00:08:56.734
in her very early years when she was just breaking through. So I'm kind of very fortunate to have seen her in super intim- intimate environ- environments. I've met her.
46
00:08:57.434 --> 00:09:13.044
I've been able to kind of chat to her away from the mic. So she'll, she is pretty authentic. In accepting his 2022 Grammy Award, uh, the musician Jon Batiste said, uh,
47
00:09:14.084 --> 00:09:27.384
"It's like a song or an album is made and it almost has a radar to find the person when they need it most." Yeah. So you kind of told us about three of your favorite Adele songs.
48
00:09:27.444 --> 00:09:37.984
Uh, I wanna chat to you about each of them individually to get a sense of whether you needed that song most at the time or whether it was just a nice soundtrack of whatever.
49
00:09:38.584 --> 00:09:42.904
So we're gonna begin with, you've kind of touched on it already, but let's talk about Hometown Glory.
50
00:09:43.424 --> 00:09:50.724
Tell us a little bit more about what you were doing at the time and why you think you might have needed a song like that at the time. Yeah, definitely.
51
00:09:50.904 --> 00:10:04.244
So Hometown Glory, back in the day in sunny Singapore, still a naive 20-year-old something, listening to this song that just felt so different from all the commercial tunes and, you know, the concept of home,
52
00:10:05.204 --> 00:10:10.304
home being described as the streets of London and the specificity of the things happening in London.
53
00:10:10.804 --> 00:10:21.284
Nothing that resonated with me, but just the fact that it was really strong vocal, powerful chords, very limited background music completely resonated with me.
54
00:10:21.764 --> 00:10:34.504
And then a couple years after that song, you know, I did my big move where I packed my bags and moved to London, and have lived here, like, since then, right? And when I look back at that song, it's completely changed.
55
00:10:34.944 --> 00:10:39.964
At that point, it was the concept of home, like I don't know, home is Singapore. What else do I know?
56
00:10:40.014 --> 00:10:58.484
And I'm listening to this person sing and describe London, to now actually being in London but not really even look, hearing that song from the lens of, "Oh, this is my streets now that she talked about," but more so the fact that actually home isn't really, like, a location.
57
00:10:58.724 --> 00:11:05.024
You know? It's not London. It's not Manchester. It's not Singapore. It's a feeling. It's a state of mind.
58
00:11:05.074 --> 00:11:17.384
And you know, sometimes home is in the comfort of, you know, watching a movie in a cinema, going to a favorite concert, indulging in something, going on a holiday. State of mind, right?
59
00:11:17.454 --> 00:11:28.314
And I think more so now than even then, for me, that song has made me realize that, yeah, home code, home, home's not just your postcode. There's so much more.
60
00:11:28.324 --> 00:11:41.564
And again, it speaks to that authenticity and that state of mind you're in. In the early years of my move, I was so clear in my mind that there is the concept of home, and then there's the concept of home away from home.
61
00:11:42.144 --> 00:11:55.044
And then [laughs] the more I traveled back and forth 6,000, 6,000 miles, I re- realized the concept of reverse culture shock. [laughs] And I think that was when I realized that, you know what?
62
00:11:55.374 --> 00:12:24.452
There's no need to chase the concept of home away from home and all that 'cause, you know, a home served me for the time that I was born and raised, and then there was a home that served me for the time that, you know, my career had its go- growth trajectory, the time when I've made, like, some of the best friends of my life, you know, the time that I've met my partner, the time that I've got a mortgage, and all those milestones- Actually define what home is, as opposed to a move or where you're born and things like that.
63
00:12:26.672 --> 00:12:43.012
Okay, track number two, Someone Like You. Tell me a bit about why that found you like radar and why you might have needed it at that point of your life. Yeah. Ooh. [laughs] That's an interesting one, right?
64
00:12:43.192 --> 00:12:55.512
Like, how can you appreciate Adele and not like Someone Like You? There's only three things that make that song. It's her voice, it's a piano, and it's a very strong story.
65
00:12:56.432 --> 00:13:04.852
And what, in that three, four-minute song that she sings, she talks about lots of different things at the same time, right?
66
00:13:05.352 --> 00:13:21.052
She speaks about sadness, she talks about somebody moving on, she talks about jealousy, she talks about acceptance. And she's okay talking about all those things at the same time in one song.
67
00:13:21.072 --> 00:13:31.292
And I think the typical piece there with that song is it's a heartbreak song. It's a song about losing something in your life and being okay with it.
68
00:13:32.172 --> 00:13:41.932
And now, again, I think the piece with Adele songs is it means something in one moment, and as you're a different person, as life evolves, it can mean something completely different.
69
00:13:42.522 --> 00:13:54.482
And, you know, like the more I've grown in life, it's a song I can come back to when, you know, it's a missed friendship or a missed phase or a missed opportunity in life, 'cause that's what it's really about.
70
00:13:54.512 --> 00:14:10.192
That, you know, you're like this one, like, phase of my life that's done and I'm okay feeling X, Y, Z about it, and I'm okay with it. And maybe a little bit bitter, but it's okay to put it all out there.
71
00:14:10.652 --> 00:14:27.012
And I'm gonna slowly but surely move on. And again, it's a typical heartbreak song and obviously when I heard it, again, late 20s, right? But it means so much more and it's so different now and it's so important too.
72
00:14:27.092 --> 00:14:36.592
And also, it's a song about vulnerability, but she sings it and projects it with such confidence 'cause she's so okay with that vulnerability.
73
00:14:37.512 --> 00:14:48.972
And it's wild how a song that talks about so many different feelings that we've all felt at different parts of our life for different reasons can come together as a collective.
74
00:14:49.741 --> 00:15:03.592
And, you know, it takes me back to that British Summer Time festival where everybody was singing that song at the same time. But this, and you know, the, like, entire Hyde Park was just raised with feels.
75
00:15:04.132 --> 00:15:09.732
You know, all sorts of feels, and you can just feel that. It's still giving me goosebump thinking about that.
76
00:15:10.072 --> 00:15:23.412
But it's wild how something so simple yet so complex, she can bring it together like a collective, and honestly, I think there's an art to that. Yeah, you touched on it nicely there, where you talked about, uh,
77
00:15:24.812 --> 00:15:38.152
something so vulnerable yet sang with such confidence. And that is a really nice thing. It's a comforting thing to hear because as a listener, you've dropped into that moment of vulnerability, aren't you?
78
00:15:38.192 --> 00:15:41.932
You're kind of hearing the person's pain. Yeah.
79
00:15:41.952 --> 00:15:51.752
But to hear her sing it so confidently and, um, there's a phrase that I keep coming back to that I've mentioned a few times in this podcast, but sometimes a, a really brilliant song
80
00:15:52.812 --> 00:16:01.912
or a piece of art of anything else can just feel like a really good cuddle. It can feel- Yeah... like a song wraps its arms around you and makes you feel warm and, and fuzzy.
81
00:16:01.952 --> 00:16:11.252
And when you can experience vulnerability and that cuddle at the same time, well, that's something quite remarkable, isn't it? Absolutely.
82
00:16:11.272 --> 00:16:25.612
It makes me think about the fact that actually clarity can carry such big weight in ways that you don't even understand. And funnily, a song about feels make me think about the business world so much as well.
83
00:16:26.212 --> 00:16:42.872
It made me think about the fact that most brands, consumers, products, solutions, the reality is that there's good bits to a brand, a product, and a solution, and there's some not so good things about a b- brand and a solution and a product, right?
84
00:16:43.432 --> 00:16:52.852
Yeah. And it goes back to what we spoke about earlier, where we are so fixated on layering on the next shiny thing, and we forget what's at the DNA.
85
00:16:52.932 --> 00:16:58.252
And actually, the reality is in that DNA there are some good things, and there are not very good things.
86
00:16:58.312 --> 00:17:10.182
And actually, successful solutions in businesses also comes from the lens of, "I know I don't have this, and I'm okay with it because I'm gonna be able to bring X, Y, Z to the business," right? So- Yeah...
87
00:17:10.252 --> 00:17:35.132
that lens of vulnerability that, you know, a lot of people are getting more acclimatized with in their personal lives, but I think even from a professional perspective for brands, consumers, business solutions as well, there's so much to be said about actually digging in deep and looking at what your solutions are doing and also not doing, and being okay to address them like Adele did in her song.
88
00:17:37.552 --> 00:17:50.672
Okay, and finally, the third song, Hold On. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah, definitely. I love Hold On. You know what? I've also got it printed and put up in my flat.
89
00:17:50.872 --> 00:18:01.992
It was a present from my husband when we were dating back in the day as a housewarming present, and little did he know that it meant so much to me 'cause of some of the lyrics and words in it.
90
00:18:02.072 --> 00:18:16.612
And it just happened to be, I think by chance, you know, saying that I like Adele and there are some songs that mean so much. I actually have a frame up on my wall today with some of the incredible lyrics from that song.
91
00:18:17.192 --> 00:18:20.092
I could say so much about Hold On 'cause I love it that much.
92
00:18:20.352 --> 00:18:31.556
It was out in 2022, 2023 Um, it's actually one of the three songs that we've discussed today that actually doesn't have, like, a music video to it or anything of that sort.
93
00:18:32.096 --> 00:18:43.796
So it's not like, you know, you have all that going on that kinda amplifies it. It's literally just the song by itself. Um, Hold On is about the uncomfortable in between.
94
00:18:44.556 --> 00:18:59.496
So you know when something happens in your life and you're upset or happy and uncomfortable, and then more often than not, we feel like we need to transition to the next bit where life is great and everything's okay and things have fallen into place.
95
00:19:00.136 --> 00:19:10.456
Hold On speaks about that time in between where it's okay to be uncomfortable. It's okay to be scared about what's gonna come next.
96
00:19:11.136 --> 00:19:18.276
Uncertainty is fine, and it will unfold into something beautiful in the future.
97
00:19:19.036 --> 00:19:32.896
Um, it was just a song that I heard in 2022 and 2023, and it made me think about, whoa, this is so true, 'cause as a person and as an individual, I'm the kind of person that kinda powers on. You know?
98
00:19:32.916 --> 00:19:38.956
Like, one thing happens, and then you just kind of like just, like, box off all your feels and then just go move on to your next piece.
99
00:19:38.996 --> 00:19:51.216
And here was a song that I heard that suddenly exposes all the things that a, a human goes through, but as a person, I just minimize all the way 'cause I need to kinda get onto the next phase, right?
100
00:19:51.666 --> 00:19:56.636
And here we are in 2026, and I feel like the song resonates with me again. You know?
101
00:19:56.696 --> 00:20:10.356
I've just been at a state where, you know, I've been doing so much in the fintech space and got so much of recognition, and I'm about to build my next chapter, which is gonna be go work with these fintech organizations from a different lens.
102
00:20:10.836 --> 00:20:13.836
Go help the marketeers there become a better version of themself.
103
00:20:13.896 --> 00:20:27.696
And again, it's gonna be a whole new chapter, which comes with a lot of uncertainty, but what that song has reminded me is that the uncertainty is here today 'cause the fear of change is because of the unknown.
104
00:20:28.416 --> 00:20:41.936
But the reality is this whole transition period only leads you to a place where things will unfold, and it will all fall into place in a very beautiful way. The song talks about holding on
105
00:20:43.436 --> 00:20:54.596
and let time be patient, and it talks about strength and, like, the time will come. And the reality is we don't allow ourselves the time to s- and space to think about all that.
106
00:20:55.036 --> 00:21:05.416
We don't allow ourself the time and space to be patient with ourselves 'cause we just need to get out of that phase 'cause, you know, the clock is ticking, and you need to go do the next thing.
107
00:21:05.446 --> 00:21:13.236
And the reality is when you're not actually being patient with yourself, you're not even allowing yourself the space and time to think about the right thing.
108
00:21:13.285 --> 00:21:23.356
And more often than not, you then end up just doing disservice to yourself. We're coming towards the end of the podcast now, but I just wanted to ask you, um, have you ever met Adele?
109
00:21:24.416 --> 00:21:37.936
Not face to face, but you'll make it happen one day, I know. [laughs] Well, what are you gonna ask her? When you meet her, what's the one thing you'd like to ask her? What drives that
110
00:21:38.996 --> 00:21:49.396
comfort within her to be so okay with being vulnerable and so honest with her audience and being fine with that? Like, where does it really come from?
111
00:21:49.456 --> 00:21:59.155
Like, for me personally, I know it comes from co- good conversations, conversations like this. Um, but for Adele, it must come from somewhere within.
112
00:21:59.336 --> 00:22:10.116
And I wanna know what's that that's deeply rooted in her that makes her feel, "I'm okay being that girl from South London. We speak in a certain way. We carry ourselves in a certain way.
113
00:22:10.716 --> 00:22:21.816
You know, from South London, I'm in LA, and I'm gonna be in and out the scene, and I'm okay with it." And, like, every time she's away, different phases of life, different stories come out.
114
00:22:21.905 --> 00:22:34.736
And what is it that in between that, like, peaks and troughs of her life brings her back to the point that I'm gonna spend some time curating this and sharing it with my audience? Wonderful.
115
00:22:36.676 --> 00:22:45.856
Before we go, is there anything that y- I've not asked you that you wanted to tell? Can you tell us what you're doing next? Yeah, definitely.
116
00:22:45.936 --> 00:22:55.096
So as I said, I've been a planner for so long, orchestrating, go to market, and making things happen. It's the top thing that's brought me lots of joy.
117
00:22:55.476 --> 00:23:02.976
Alongside with that, the painting element of, like, marketing with brand and content has also brought me lots of joy.
118
00:23:03.006 --> 00:23:13.076
And the next thing I wanna do is bring the intersection of these areas and also help companies, functions, and even marketeers be better versions of themself.
119
00:23:13.116 --> 00:23:23.116
You know, we are often bucketed, again, as, like, creative professionals in worlds that are around qualitative measures and quantitative measures.
120
00:23:23.156 --> 00:23:36.496
And yeah, I'm gonna be on a mission of bringing those worlds together, making them collide, and then ultimately make creative magic. Fabulous. And where can people find you? So you can find me on LinkedIn.
121
00:23:36.516 --> 00:23:48.646
I'll share my details. Um, I've also got a little we- website. It's called Melketing, so that's Mel and marketing married together. See what you've done there. Like it. Yeah. [laughs] I was born to do this, wasn't I?
122
00:23:49.436 --> 00:23:58.416
Well, thank you so much for taking part today. It's been a fascinating conversation. I've loved chatting Adele with you. Thank you to everyone who's watching or listening.
123
00:23:58.576 --> 00:24:13.016
If you're new, you can find us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're also on YouTube, and you can even watch us on Spotify now. Amal, thank you so much.
124
00:24:13.576 --> 00:24:29.916
Look forward to chatting to you again soon. Thank you so much for having me. All the best. Speak soon. Bye now. Bye. [outro music]
