Trust and Surrender: A Conversation with Don Carter on Community, Fatherhood, and Transformation

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Hello, everyone.
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Welcome to conversations
with your Chinese Auntie.
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Yiyi that's me.
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I hope you had a great summer.
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And I can't believe
it's already September..
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In this episode, we welcome Don Carter.
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We talk about.
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Quite a few things and what really stood
out to me with this conversation was
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how easy it is to have a chat with Don.
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We talk about many different
things about Don growing up
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with no father figure,
but he was surrounded by.
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Community.
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Especially on his mother's side.
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So, yeah, the topic of community
came up about following your heart.
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And, Fatherhood and also
dealing with loss and change.
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Trigger warning here.
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We talk about suicide towards
the end of the episode.
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So please take care of your heart
as you listen to this episode.
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Don is an entrepreneur speaker writer and
transformational coach who helps black
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professionals and entrepreneur create more
revenue and impact in their businesses
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and freedom and abundance in life.
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Don helps untapped entrepreneurs
and executive leaders eliminate
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limitation and imposter syndrome.
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I will add the link for Don's website
and his book in the show notes.
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Good morning, Don.
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Good morning.
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Welcome.
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Thank you for saying yes.
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No, it's my pleasure.
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Thank you for opening the invitation.
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Yeah.
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Please introduce yourself,
yeah, my name is Don Carter.
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I am, uh,
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Transformational executive
coach and business shaman.
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I adopted that, that title after several
years of, um, several years after
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a client spontaneously uttered it.
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And I recognized.
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The truth in it of being, um,
an intermediary, an intermediary
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between the tangible and intangible
things in the business journey for
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my clients and an agent of healing,
if you will, in that context.
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So, um, that's something that
I just really put on this year,
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so I'm trying it out a lot more.
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Um, but it was.
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They first said that probably
three, three and a half years ago.
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Um, and it really resonated deep with me
because of my recognition of some of the
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story that I have on my own origin and,
um, the transformation of that over time.
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And so I've spent a lot of my
years really serving other people.
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I was in law enforcement for about
a decade, uh, and was a detective.
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And now I spend my energies and attention.
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helping people investigate their inner
lives so they can grow their business.
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How did you, I'm curious when you shared
with me that you were a detective,
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how did you transition from that?
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Well, it was a long transition in
terms of vocationally, but it was
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really just my way of leading.
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And um, and I had actually even worked
with several, uh, business owners
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prior to leaving law enforcement.
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And I've always had the
entrepreneurial bent, https: otter.
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ai Really just finding my own way
in my entrepreneurial pursuits.
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Um, and so I collected a lot of
wisdom and a lot of insight and,
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um, connected the more human side to
what people think is just, you know,
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tactical, strategical business stuff.
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And so I helped people really make
breakthroughs that they weren't able
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to make just by knowing what to do.
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It was about, um, Really elevating
who they are in their own minds and
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allowing themselves to continue to
unfurl and to transform into that person.
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And so I've been doing that but
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when I got to the point in my law
enforcement career when I was just
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surviving it, it was about eight
and a half years into it and I
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recognized that I was becoming the
kind of person I didn't want to be and
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the incident that, that brought that
to, to really in front of my face,
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uh, when I was a detective was when I
was talking to a victim of a violent
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crime because I was in violent crimes
and she was just completely broken.
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Like, couldn't even barely talk to
me because of, um, because of how
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distraught she was by what occurred.
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And as I'm listening to her, I'm just
sitting there with my notepad and
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I'm like, okay, what happened next?
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Okay, what happened next?
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And I felt this doubt of the,
um, I was really like feeling
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like, is it really that deep?
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Like, do you really have to be?
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And so IF because she was so emotional
that she couldn't barely talk and I was.
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And looking at that with skepticism,
I recognized in that moment,
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it was like, this woman just
needs somebody to listen to her.
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She just needs to feel safe.
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She just needs just some comfort.
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And I'm sitting here just
like, just the facts, man.
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And that was the point where
I realized that I was like,
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yeah, it's time for me to go.
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And that's because I actually remembered
I had a prayer in early in my career,
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like when I was in the police academy
that, that I think I remember saying,
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asking, Prayer that God wouldn't
let my heart get hard toward people.
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And in that moment with this woman in
this interview, I, it was almost like
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I was looking down on myself from the
corner of the room and just like, yeah,
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dude, this is not who we want to be.
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And so that's when I knew
it was time for me to go.
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And then it was probably another year and
a half before I like fully let myself go.
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Um, and I just broke away and
I wanted to come alive again.
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And not look at the world
as a negative place.
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Um, Just by virtue of the nature of the
work that I did, that people don't call
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the police when things are going right.
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They only call them when
things are going wrong.
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So if that's my work, is only seeing
people at their worst and hardest
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times, then naturally my, my own
perception is gonna shift to that.
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And so when I felt that start
to happen, I was like, Yeah,
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this isn't, this isn't for me.
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And, I wanted to restore my own sense of
well being and goodness about the world.
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So I left and just went on an
adventure of figuring out what
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I, who I was becoming next.
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To the chagrin of my family and to
the, the, against the wise counsel of
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my wife at the time and my kid, cause
there's some esteem to it, but, um,
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yeah, when people, when you tell people
you're a detective, they're like, Oh.
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And it was not glamorous, obviously,
but it felt like it was crushing my soul
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by the time I was, it was time to go.
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You know, I am curious, you know,
it really touched me when you say
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you were just sitting there and
you were just writing when she
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was sharing what happened to her.
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How much was that?
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Was it?
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The training, the expectations that as a
law enforcement that you are expected to
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do it, because even, you know, I've talked
about this a bit in other episodes is that
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even as a therapist, the Western idea is
that you're not supposed to closeness.
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Your clients, and that is a very
Western idea is like with you
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having to keep like almost like a
barrier between you and the victim.
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Yeah, is that was that the expectations.
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Yeah, it's the expectation
and it was unspoken.
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Actually, it was unspoken in direct
training, but they would say things like.
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If you become a part of the problem,
then you're not helping anymore.
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And so basically the sentiment was
be detached from the circumstance.
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Um, and really they were mostly talking
about in dangerous situations, like don't
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do anything crazy so that you don't become
somebody that we need to be helping.
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But in another sense, once you, once we
got out into the work in the field, that
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was just the sentiment, the expectation.
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It was like, I have to
stay composed because.
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If I don't, then I'm
not able to do my job.
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And so that was, that was it.
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I'm just doing my job.
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That's what people would say.
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And so it's like the job itself
is being detached from the very
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thing that got you into it, which
was to care for and help people.
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Cause the vast majority of the
police officers that I knew and
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know really cared about people.
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But there's a switch that
happens after about two or three
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years, um, that they should be.
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There's just not enough coping mechanisms
that are healthy that allow people to
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stay connected to their own emotions
and still be able to do the job.
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And so I think therapists are
similar in terms of that tendency,
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at least here in the West.
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Um, and yeah, it's interesting to me that
you even mentioned that that's a Western
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sentiment because it feels like it.
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It's like more clinical rather than.
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Um, yeah.
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And it feel it just, and it always
feels just so lifeless, really.
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And cold.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I interviewed the, woman who wrote
the book Decolonizing Therapy, Mm.
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And it's a, it's a term that's, A lot
of us who identify as people of color
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and therapists of color, it's like we're
looking at it now because it's like
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everything that's taught to us in master's
program of counseling and therapy.
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It's was.
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The ideas were from the colonized
Western white male idea.
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But over the last, I think, 10, 15
years is that as a therapist, who's
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a person of color, you're looking at
these skills and then you're working
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with clients who are people of color.
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You're like, they're not getting better.
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Why are they not getting better?
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Because the individualistic Western
thinking of I'm your therapist, the
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Subcontext of I am better in a sense, like
quote unquote, it doesn't work because for
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those of us who grew up in a collectivist
culture, community is so important.
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You know, community is
the, is the most important.
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It's the healing agent.
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It's the thing that allows you to
be seen for better or for worse
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or for comfort or discomfort.
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And it's very, it gives you the
opportunity to one, get out of your
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own way sometimes, as well as, you
know, be nurtured and cared for in a
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very, um, intimate and soothing way.
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And so, yes, the fact that we.
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And I didn't typically think of it as,
well, maybe we'll get into the story
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later, but I didn't think of it as being
colonized as much, but that's essentially
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what it is because that's what we live in.
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We live in a society that is,
uh, built on that framework.
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And so that's a lot of how I actually
reckoned with my own identity, uh,
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probably eight years ago or so,
which is another detective story.
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But I had, um, and I don't mean to get
off topic already, but, uh, yeah, I
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remember when I was sitting with this
white woman who I was interviewing, who
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was a witness of a crime and, uh, she's
describing the suspect and she said,
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he's, he's, you know, he was a black male.
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I was in robbery, which is, um, is the
robbery homicide unit and robbery in.
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The state of Missouri is really about
forcefully taking property from somebody.
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So it's not just breaking in
somewhere or something like that.
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It's encountering a person and
violently taking something from them,
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either by threat, force or harm.
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And so 90
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plus percent of the suspects
in, in robbery crimes in
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my area were black males.
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And, um, she's so, so she's just
casually describing the suspect.
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He's a black male.
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He's wearing this, wearing that,
uh, this height, this weight.
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And then she pauses really strange.
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And she's like, but he's
light skinned like you.
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It kind of pricked me a little
bit where I was like, what?
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Light skin.
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Okay.
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But then I just wrote it down light
skin, like me, whatever that means.
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And.
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So it kind of jolted me, it was two
weeks later that I was sitting with
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a younger black female and going
through the same interview process.
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And then at the end of it, she says
almost the exact same thing, describes
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the suspect and then pauses and is
like, but he's light skinned like you.
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And this actually sent me reeling,
where I remember going home.
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pacing around my dining room because I
was just so distraught by the idea that
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people were calling me light skinned
because in my mind, I was black, black.
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Like, I was like the color of my shirt,
black is how I thought of myself.
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And so long story short.
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I ended up just questioning
everything, because I was like, if
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this isn't true about me, then I'm
not actually the color black like I
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think I am, and what I believe black
identity is, what else isn't true?
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And then I realized that everything that
I was learned was, everything that I've
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learned about myself was based in this
system of, uh, really a forced identity.
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And I'd never felt connected to the
narrative of being directly from Africa,
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even in the last few generations.
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Um, because to me it was like,
that's not that long ago.
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That's only a few hundred years.
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I, my family would have said something
and there's this, This piece that a lot
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of black people in the United States
have at least where their family tells
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00:15:48,707 --> 00:15:54,877
them that they are Indigenous is like
the quote that black people kind of say
227
00:15:57,027 --> 00:16:02,497
It's like I got Indian in my
family So that's coming up in
228
00:16:02,497 --> 00:16:05,597
the 80s and 90s if somebody said
that it was almost like they were
229
00:16:08,487 --> 00:16:13,147
It was almost like they were trying
to highlight some Esteem that they
230
00:16:13,147 --> 00:16:16,827
have because they had some Indian in
their family But when you're looking
231
00:16:16,827 --> 00:16:19,767
at our phenotypes and the traits
and all of those other things, it's
232
00:16:19,767 --> 00:16:22,247
like, our families told us this.
233
00:16:22,257 --> 00:16:26,287
It wasn't just that people were trying
to make something up that wasn't true.
234
00:16:26,337 --> 00:16:29,697
And so when I, thankfully,
this sent me on a journey of
235
00:16:29,697 --> 00:16:31,487
really some deep self discovery.
236
00:16:32,107 --> 00:16:35,557
One, I just suspended my beliefs about
everything because I was like, if
237
00:16:35,557 --> 00:16:40,177
everything is founded on this, this
idea of my identity being this, and
238
00:16:40,177 --> 00:16:43,437
it came from somewhere that maybe
is untrue, what else is untrue?
239
00:16:43,437 --> 00:16:43,947
I don't know.
240
00:16:44,267 --> 00:16:49,287
And, um, thankfully my
grandmother was still alive.
241
00:16:49,717 --> 00:16:55,417
And after I did some digging, I found
like this photo of these two people
242
00:16:55,417 --> 00:17:02,337
that look like just typical looking
indigenous folks, and they were told
243
00:17:02,337 --> 00:17:06,267
they were supposed to be my great, great
grandparents or my great grandparents.
244
00:17:06,987 --> 00:17:07,587
One of the two.
245
00:17:07,997 --> 00:17:11,357
So I showed my grandmother
this photo that I found.
246
00:17:11,517 --> 00:17:12,947
Cause I found it like through ancestry.
247
00:17:13,167 --> 00:17:14,487
com or something like that.
248
00:17:14,587 --> 00:17:16,397
And I was researching my family history.
249
00:17:17,252 --> 00:17:18,712
And she said, where'd you get that?
250
00:17:19,532 --> 00:17:22,622
And I was like, I told her where, and
she was like, that's grandma and grandpa.
251
00:17:23,252 --> 00:17:29,682
And I was grateful, because she was in
her late, she was in her 90s at the time,
252
00:17:31,222 --> 00:17:39,162
and uh, it really affirmed to me that
like, oh, my people are like from here.
253
00:17:39,172 --> 00:17:41,772
So I asked her, I was like, Granny,
did, did your people ever tell you
254
00:17:41,772 --> 00:17:43,422
you were from anywhere but here?
255
00:17:43,692 --> 00:17:45,412
She was like, no, we're from Louisiana.
256
00:17:45,742 --> 00:17:50,002
She told me Cato County and she told
me all this stuff about what, and I
257
00:17:50,002 --> 00:17:51,422
was just like, okay, that makes sense.
258
00:17:51,422 --> 00:17:55,052
And so then I started looking
it up and found some information
259
00:17:55,052 --> 00:18:00,592
about, The Cato Indians, which
are, you know, darker complected,
260
00:18:01,102 --> 00:18:03,692
uh, indigenous folks in the South.
261
00:18:04,282 --> 00:18:09,652
And then they got pushed out into
Texas and, um, what's now Texas.
262
00:18:09,972 --> 00:18:16,602
And so I started to really connect to the
story that I believe most of the Black
263
00:18:16,602 --> 00:18:21,192
people in the United States that are
descendants of indigenous people here.
264
00:18:21,842 --> 00:18:28,712
And, and so I flipped the narrative for
myself, just that, you know, my only
265
00:18:28,712 --> 00:18:34,002
ancestry is slavery from people who
were subjugated and kidnapped and all
266
00:18:34,002 --> 00:18:39,082
of that other stuff from another land,
because as a black man, having very
267
00:18:39,082 --> 00:18:43,612
few generations of people to draw from
in this, in a few hundred years, you
268
00:18:43,612 --> 00:18:45,322
feel like you don't have an identity.
269
00:18:45,882 --> 00:18:51,652
And it's one of the struggles that, that,
I've seen, uh, black people have, um,
270
00:18:52,282 --> 00:18:54,332
is there's no connection to the land.
271
00:18:54,402 --> 00:18:56,092
There's no connection to a land.
272
00:18:56,672 --> 00:19:00,752
And so they're just kind of listless
and, and, you know, wandering.
273
00:19:02,352 --> 00:19:08,937
But when I reckon with that for myself,
it was, you know, instantaneous, um,
274
00:19:10,227 --> 00:19:16,367
restoration of the sense of peace and
a sense of curiosity and wonder about
275
00:19:16,637 --> 00:19:22,237
the world, um, instead of just being
pigeonholed into this idea of who I was.
276
00:19:22,827 --> 00:19:29,467
And so all of the things that
we have inherited have their
277
00:19:29,467 --> 00:19:31,887
root in this colonial mindset.
278
00:19:32,462 --> 00:19:37,052
Which I identify as something that is
contentious with the world around it.
279
00:19:37,542 --> 00:19:42,982
It's like as a, as a, as a Colin,
whatever you call it, I was about
280
00:19:42,982 --> 00:19:47,672
to say a colonist, but somebody who
goes and establishes new colonies
281
00:19:47,702 --> 00:19:53,012
elsewhere, if you have your own agenda,
it's natural that you would want to
282
00:19:53,032 --> 00:19:55,552
subdue whatever is there already.
283
00:19:55,552 --> 00:20:00,702
It's not about blending with it and
European colonialism in it very uniquely.
284
00:20:03,942 --> 00:20:11,372
is a conquering mindset, where when
something is different than what I
285
00:20:11,372 --> 00:20:17,262
think is true and right, then I conquer
it, rather than collaborate with it.
286
00:20:18,052 --> 00:20:23,222
And so, in therapy or in any kind
of clinical setting, or in any
287
00:20:23,232 --> 00:20:27,432
setting where you're dealing with
people in a direct way, this sense
288
00:20:27,432 --> 00:20:29,787
of detachment is what, Keeps you,
289
00:20:31,967 --> 00:20:35,257
I guess, uh, viable in that.
290
00:20:35,697 --> 00:20:40,567
And so as a therapist, I imagine, you
know, what I would imagine is, is taught
291
00:20:40,577 --> 00:20:45,347
is that you can't get into people's
troubles because then you like, it starts
292
00:20:45,427 --> 00:20:47,517
tainting your ability to help them.
293
00:20:48,057 --> 00:20:53,107
And I can see the wisdom in some of that.
294
00:20:53,307 --> 00:20:58,167
And I can also recognize the
power in really helping people
295
00:20:58,177 --> 00:21:00,277
be seen as a means of them.
296
00:21:01,097 --> 00:21:05,377
Gaining some sense of healing
or something like that.
297
00:21:08,287 --> 00:21:08,827
Yeah.
298
00:21:08,887 --> 00:21:14,667
I, uh, it's, I mean, I think, well,
I believe that all of us wants to be
299
00:21:14,667 --> 00:21:19,837
seen and heard, you know, and I love
that you use the word collaborative
300
00:21:21,007 --> 00:21:23,967
because that's what it is, you know,
but when you come in from the mindset
301
00:21:23,967 --> 00:21:30,667
that I'm better than you, my way or the
highway, then that's when things just.
302
00:21:31,087 --> 00:21:32,107
Don't go well.
303
00:21:43,108 --> 00:21:46,968
Would you share a bit about your
upbringing, because I am so curious
304
00:21:47,048 --> 00:21:51,618
for you to have the mindset that
things are not working, I need to
305
00:21:51,618 --> 00:21:57,738
shift, or you go to your grandmother
and start to research your ancestry.
306
00:22:00,128 --> 00:22:06,018
It's very, it's always interesting to
me to see how and where you got that.
307
00:22:08,048 --> 00:22:13,538
thinking and your childhood when you
had some great elders and mentors
308
00:22:13,538 --> 00:22:17,048
growing up that impacted who you are.
309
00:22:17,988 --> 00:22:18,358
Yeah.
310
00:22:19,688 --> 00:22:20,128
Yeah.
311
00:22:20,168 --> 00:22:25,658
Um, I was raised by a single mom
and I had three other siblings.
312
00:22:26,188 --> 00:22:27,788
We all had different fathers though.
313
00:22:28,238 --> 00:22:31,653
And mine was the only
one that wasn't around.
314
00:22:32,243 --> 00:22:38,813
Um, and so I grew up without a
father, didn't meet him until
315
00:22:38,813 --> 00:22:41,963
I was 16 for the first time and
before that I didn't know his name.
316
00:22:41,963 --> 00:22:44,813
I didn't have any clue about
where his whereabouts were.
317
00:22:45,563 --> 00:22:52,153
Um, and so most of my childhood was,
um, I mean, all of it was on my maternal
318
00:22:52,153 --> 00:22:53,873
side, my mom's side of the family.
319
00:22:54,473 --> 00:22:58,988
And because she was a single mom,
um, Um, there was a lot of time
320
00:22:58,988 --> 00:23:03,328
that we spent with my grandparents
and so her family was really solid.
321
00:23:03,328 --> 00:23:07,808
My grandparents were married for, I
don't know, 60 something years, I think.
322
00:23:08,288 --> 00:23:11,828
And um, she had three brothers.
323
00:23:12,168 --> 00:23:17,398
So we had uncles and there was an
interesting bond that my grandfather
324
00:23:17,398 --> 00:23:21,318
had with his next door neighbor
because they were in a part of the
325
00:23:21,318 --> 00:23:23,408
city where I grew up in Kansas City.
326
00:23:23,988 --> 00:23:29,168
Um, black people weren't allowed to
live in certain parts at a certain time.
327
00:23:29,638 --> 00:23:35,908
Um, but my grandparents in
the fifties moved into the
328
00:23:35,908 --> 00:23:37,268
neighborhood that they were in.
329
00:23:37,828 --> 00:23:42,448
for the rest of their lives, basically,
and so that was the context for it, but
330
00:23:42,448 --> 00:23:45,508
my grandparents and the neighbors were
like the first black families to move
331
00:23:45,508 --> 00:23:49,408
into the neighborhood, so they were
really bonded, and they became like
332
00:23:49,408 --> 00:23:54,738
family, and so I'm actually named after
my grandfather and his best friend,
333
00:23:55,208 --> 00:24:00,008
uh, his next door neighbor, um, for
my first and middle name, because he
334
00:24:00,008 --> 00:24:02,268
was like a father to my mom as well.
335
00:24:03,578 --> 00:24:08,878
And so those two families really
provided a lot of safety because
336
00:24:08,878 --> 00:24:09,858
they were next door neighbors.
337
00:24:09,858 --> 00:24:12,568
And so we play in between
the houses or all around.
338
00:24:12,568 --> 00:24:19,268
And it was just a really sweet
environment in terms of the people
339
00:24:19,498 --> 00:24:22,618
where there was just some, except
there was great acceptance and love.
340
00:24:22,648 --> 00:24:29,433
And in the midst of whatever, all the
regular ills of urban, you know, Blighted
341
00:24:29,463 --> 00:24:35,593
neighborhood life is and so it wasn't
without challenges or what some would
342
00:24:35,593 --> 00:24:43,463
call tragedies but it was full of Love and
acceptance and so I had this duality that
343
00:24:43,463 --> 00:24:48,543
I grew up in where I was simultaneously
Safe with the people around me and
344
00:24:48,543 --> 00:24:50,243
I felt like the world was dangerous.
345
00:24:50,283 --> 00:24:56,283
And so I had a lot of paranoia In my early
years, like I remember being like super
346
00:24:56,283 --> 00:25:00,853
paranoid from maybe ages eight to 16.
347
00:25:01,443 --> 00:25:06,333
Um, I remember feeling like I wasn't
gonna live past 16 because for
348
00:25:06,343 --> 00:25:10,473
young black boys in the 90s, it was
like, that was just the narrative.
349
00:25:10,793 --> 00:25:15,233
And so I remember being terrified,
like approaching my 16th birthday,
350
00:25:15,273 --> 00:25:20,803
even though I wasn't in the streets
or I wasn't really, um, In any kind of
351
00:25:20,803 --> 00:25:26,773
activity that would be conducive to me
having my life snuffed out early, but
352
00:25:28,038 --> 00:25:32,818
Because that was like the, the weight of
what it meant to be a young black boy.
353
00:25:33,128 --> 00:25:34,368
I just felt it.
354
00:25:34,378 --> 00:25:39,858
So that was my internal environment,
but my external environment was like
355
00:25:39,878 --> 00:25:44,278
people who just really loved and
accepted and really nurtured me,
356
00:25:44,298 --> 00:25:49,448
but especially my mother and the one
thing she told me my whole life that I
357
00:25:49,458 --> 00:25:53,418
actually didn't really just, it didn't
click until I was like in my thirties.
358
00:25:53,958 --> 00:25:56,908
Um, she always told me to follow my heart.
359
00:25:56,908 --> 00:25:56,948
Yeah.
360
00:25:58,453 --> 00:26:00,023
That was like her admonition.
361
00:26:00,043 --> 00:26:00,973
That was the thing.
362
00:26:01,703 --> 00:26:06,513
So whenever we'd ask her something
or whenever I'd have some She'd
363
00:26:06,513 --> 00:26:07,683
just say just follow your heart.
364
00:26:08,373 --> 00:26:11,343
And so that was the message over
and over and over and over again
365
00:26:11,353 --> 00:26:13,533
It's like retune into yourself.
366
00:26:14,623 --> 00:26:22,518
And so between the people and my
mother's You know, direct influences.
367
00:26:22,518 --> 00:26:23,608
She's such a great lady.
368
00:26:23,608 --> 00:26:28,058
She's such a sweet and
nurturing and caring person.
369
00:26:29,518 --> 00:26:34,598
That was the context that I grew up in
to allow me to feel like I could explore.
370
00:26:35,088 --> 00:26:38,398
And so I was always out and about.
371
00:26:38,968 --> 00:26:42,398
Um, I mean, I don't, I don't even
know if my mother traveled before
372
00:26:42,398 --> 00:26:46,898
I did internationally, um, because
I just had all these opportunities.
373
00:26:46,908 --> 00:26:48,238
She just let me explore.
374
00:26:48,908 --> 00:26:51,668
Um, And she facilitated my exploration.
375
00:26:52,418 --> 00:26:55,548
Uh, and so I think
that's a big part of it.
376
00:26:55,828 --> 00:26:57,698
Being, feeling loved.
377
00:26:58,188 --> 00:27:03,078
My grandfather, on my mom's
side, has had ten other siblings.
378
00:27:03,608 --> 00:27:13,058
And so, that line just kind of really,
uh, created a context of commitment
379
00:27:13,068 --> 00:27:15,508
to family and just love for family.
380
00:27:16,148 --> 00:27:19,338
And I think that made a
huge difference for me.
381
00:27:22,203 --> 00:27:22,623
Love that.
382
00:27:22,993 --> 00:27:28,003
I, you know, I love what you said
about your mom, how great she is and
383
00:27:28,333 --> 00:27:30,703
the message is to follow your heart.
384
00:27:31,193 --> 00:27:36,823
Is there an example that stands out
to you that when you look at your
385
00:27:36,823 --> 00:27:40,373
mom, and you're like, Oh yeah, this
is when she followed her heart.
386
00:27:41,538 --> 00:27:43,168
Yeah, I see.
387
00:27:43,598 --> 00:27:45,638
I think that might be
some of the disconnect.
388
00:27:45,798 --> 00:27:52,178
I think my mom was always really just true
to herself She she she loved and served
389
00:27:52,258 --> 00:27:59,088
and really took care and takes care of
people from this really open heart and
390
00:27:59,398 --> 00:28:03,698
She got some pretty tough boundaries
when it's time to and so watching her
391
00:28:03,698 --> 00:28:09,428
like operate like that I mean one of
the reasons she had multiple marriages.
392
00:28:09,828 --> 00:28:13,733
It was because Like, as a kid, I
wasn't thinking negatively about
393
00:28:13,733 --> 00:28:18,993
it, but it was like, that is kind
of like a strange sounding thing.
394
00:28:20,393 --> 00:28:25,273
By a certain time, my mom had five,
was married five times, and so that
395
00:28:25,273 --> 00:28:28,873
can sound like it's not working.
396
00:28:30,458 --> 00:28:35,308
But what I recognize that it is that
my mom, deeply caring, deeply loving,
397
00:28:35,328 --> 00:28:40,198
and then when she realizes that there
was some, something to, to cut off
398
00:28:40,198 --> 00:28:47,208
is like, yeah, she has, she's, she
has a high endurance for, um, BS.
399
00:28:47,888 --> 00:28:51,328
And when it's the time to draw
the line, she can draw the line.
400
00:28:52,518 --> 00:28:54,868
And so that's what I watched her do.
401
00:28:56,418 --> 00:28:59,798
I don't know about her following her
heart, except in just how she lived
402
00:29:00,188 --> 00:29:03,828
in terms of like having any particular
dreams or wanting to do certain things.
403
00:29:03,838 --> 00:29:05,768
She just always lived well.
404
00:29:05,808 --> 00:29:11,428
I mean, I watched her, um, If she needed
to, she would, you know, set up a nice
405
00:29:11,428 --> 00:29:13,268
environment and take a bubble bath.
406
00:29:13,268 --> 00:29:15,668
She would have music going all the time.
407
00:29:15,668 --> 00:29:17,478
She, there'd be incense.
408
00:29:17,478 --> 00:29:22,708
There was just an environment of just
nurture and love for herself and for us.
409
00:29:23,008 --> 00:29:24,618
And so that's what I observed.
410
00:29:24,928 --> 00:29:27,488
And I never connected that to
the follow your heart piece.
411
00:29:27,738 --> 00:29:31,458
And that's why I said, maybe I
didn't get it until I was much older.
412
00:29:32,018 --> 00:29:34,118
Um, because.
413
00:29:34,633 --> 00:29:38,763
After going through what I've been
through over the last, you know, six,
414
00:29:38,993 --> 00:29:45,503
six plus years, um, since leaving law
enforcement, following my heart and that
415
00:29:45,513 --> 00:29:51,513
being kind of my anchor internally is
the thing that allowed me to stay solid
416
00:29:51,833 --> 00:29:54,813
through some very challenging times.
417
00:29:55,233 --> 00:29:58,027
Um, and so I looked up.
418
00:29:58,838 --> 00:30:03,108
You know, it was probably about four or
five years ago, and I was like, oh, wow,
419
00:30:03,718 --> 00:30:08,498
like I'm living in that way where I'm just
following what I think is good to follow,
420
00:30:08,878 --> 00:30:13,938
despite what it looks like, despite what
I'm, what cares I could have about it
421
00:30:13,938 --> 00:30:16,688
and worries, I'm just following my heart.
422
00:30:17,178 --> 00:30:19,978
And so since she instilled that in
me, I had to call her and I think I
423
00:30:19,978 --> 00:30:22,448
was like 30 or something like that.
424
00:30:23,058 --> 00:30:27,313
And I was like, yeah, thank you for,
you know, Putting that in me, because
425
00:30:27,313 --> 00:30:30,953
all the goodness that I was enjoying
at the time was a result of me having
426
00:30:30,953 --> 00:30:32,433
the courage to follow my own heart.
427
00:30:34,403 --> 00:30:35,743
That's so sweet.
428
00:30:36,663 --> 00:30:41,723
Am I, am I correct in saying that
for her and for you, the ability
429
00:30:41,723 --> 00:30:45,352
to follow your heart is because
there's a community behind you.
430
00:30:45,353 --> 00:30:47,143
I believe that.
431
00:30:47,323 --> 00:30:47,933
Yes.
432
00:30:48,493 --> 00:30:49,063
Um,
433
00:30:53,348 --> 00:30:57,298
And because it's the, the water
that I lived in, like, I just felt
434
00:30:57,298 --> 00:31:03,668
it, just felt that sense of, and
there's a lot of us that are really
435
00:31:03,668 --> 00:31:06,258
strange all throughout my family.
436
00:31:06,828 --> 00:31:09,078
And everybody just kind of went
their own way and did their
437
00:31:09,078 --> 00:31:12,438
own thing and came together.
438
00:31:12,943 --> 00:31:17,263
And so it wasn't even like
a staged sense of community.
439
00:31:17,263 --> 00:31:21,043
It was just like a, a
continuous gathering.
440
00:31:21,413 --> 00:31:25,343
Like, I remember little things
like being at my grandparent's
441
00:31:25,353 --> 00:31:30,083
house, my grandmother would fry
chicken like once or twice a week.
442
00:31:30,093 --> 00:31:31,333
I mean, it was a thing.
443
00:31:31,603 --> 00:31:35,783
And so literally neighbors come
over, people from around the
444
00:31:35,783 --> 00:31:38,073
block would come over, Hey, Mr.
445
00:31:38,083 --> 00:31:40,823
C, that's what they would
call my grandfather, Mr.
446
00:31:40,823 --> 00:31:41,983
Carter or whatever.
447
00:31:43,043 --> 00:31:47,053
And it was just such a, yeah,
it was a great community,
448
00:31:47,283 --> 00:31:49,303
like the whole block, I think.
449
00:31:50,528 --> 00:31:53,618
Because my grandparents had lived
there for so long, by the time I
450
00:31:53,618 --> 00:31:56,088
was born, they were, you know, by
the time I was born, they had been
451
00:31:56,088 --> 00:31:58,558
there, you know, 25, 30 years.
452
00:31:59,028 --> 00:32:06,298
And then, uh, yeah, they were
established and seen as, as
453
00:32:07,078 --> 00:32:08,618
just caring, reliable people.
454
00:32:08,868 --> 00:32:15,733
And so that just brought that
sense of magnetism to, At least our
455
00:32:15,733 --> 00:32:17,793
house, our, our grandmother's house.
456
00:32:18,393 --> 00:32:21,503
And, um, so there was
always a sense of community.
457
00:32:22,333 --> 00:32:22,943
And
458
00:32:24,963 --> 00:32:30,833
definitely, like, it's tip, it's, it's
like a, a, a typical thing that I hear
459
00:32:31,463 --> 00:32:36,198
black people my age and older say,
or, um, But I remember running around
460
00:32:36,198 --> 00:32:39,738
the neighborhood and having somebody
that I did not even know, be like,
461
00:32:39,738 --> 00:32:41,278
Hey, your mama is looking for you.
462
00:32:41,738 --> 00:32:46,678
And like be able to have her
on the phone or they called or
463
00:32:46,678 --> 00:32:50,438
whatever, just to be what felt like
it was far away from the house.
464
00:32:50,438 --> 00:32:52,198
It was probably only like two blocks away.
465
00:32:53,513 --> 00:32:57,683
But it was two worlds away as a,
as a kid, and to know that people
466
00:32:57,683 --> 00:33:01,563
were like seeing you and looking out
and being like, you need to go home
467
00:33:01,613 --> 00:33:03,403
because your folks are looking for you.
468
00:33:03,403 --> 00:33:04,463
They wonder where you are.
469
00:33:05,133 --> 00:33:08,553
That was a very great sense
of community and safety.
470
00:33:09,483 --> 00:33:16,913
Um, so definitely, and even now, like
I moved to California for several
471
00:33:16,913 --> 00:33:20,893
years and it was because I didn't
have the ability to connect with the
472
00:33:20,893 --> 00:33:23,273
community as well there that I was like.
473
00:33:23,883 --> 00:33:26,613
Oh, we could probably
move back to the Midwest.
474
00:33:27,093 --> 00:33:27,633
Um,
475
00:33:29,993 --> 00:33:32,903
and so community is one of those
things that has always allowed me
476
00:33:32,903 --> 00:33:37,143
to thrive, I think, and I never, but
I've always been such an individual.
477
00:33:37,933 --> 00:33:38,553
And so.
478
00:33:40,408 --> 00:33:43,398
Those things are not, you know,
mutually exclusive at all.
479
00:33:44,308 --> 00:33:47,798
It's not like my identity is in
the community, it's just that my
480
00:33:47,798 --> 00:33:49,818
identity is within the community.
481
00:33:50,538 --> 00:33:55,238
And I get to be myself and I get
to be these other people as well.
482
00:33:56,738 --> 00:33:57,108
Yeah.
483
00:33:57,358 --> 00:34:04,818
Well, and I think a good solid
community allows you to be who you are.
484
00:34:07,598 --> 00:34:11,868
Accept you for who you are,
and you can go off and explore
485
00:34:11,868 --> 00:34:13,338
and then they welcome you back.
486
00:34:13,668 --> 00:34:13,758
Mm-Hmm.
487
00:34:14,568 --> 00:34:20,448
, that's the, that's the, the stability
of community that helps you to explore.
488
00:34:20,888 --> 00:34:23,563
I'm curious, so you have
three children and Mm-Hmm.
489
00:34:24,303 --> 00:34:30,903
. you grew up without a father, I'm
curious, was there, I'm sure there is,
490
00:34:30,933 --> 00:34:36,613
but conscious decision when you became
a father that, you know, you were like,
491
00:34:36,663 --> 00:34:39,093
okay, I want to be a different father.
492
00:34:39,103 --> 00:34:42,613
I want to show up differently because
you didn't grow up with a father.
493
00:34:48,707 --> 00:34:49,317
Yeah.
494
00:34:49,407 --> 00:34:53,287
It's kind of backwards from that
where it wasn't when I became a
495
00:34:53,287 --> 00:34:54,897
father, that decision was made.
496
00:34:55,087 --> 00:34:58,617
It was when I was six or seven.
497
00:34:59,602 --> 00:35:08,662
And I remember being in my mom's Hyundai
hatchback, it was like tan, I'm sitting in
498
00:35:08,662 --> 00:35:13,092
the back seat with my younger brother who
was three years younger than me, I think.
499
00:35:13,532 --> 00:35:17,462
And so I know he was
probably four at the oldest.
500
00:35:17,462 --> 00:35:17,852
So.
501
00:35:18,467 --> 00:35:20,687
I couldn't have been
more than six or seven.
502
00:35:21,107 --> 00:35:22,897
I was like two and a half
years older than him.
503
00:35:24,587 --> 00:35:26,997
And I don't remember what we
were arguing about, but we
504
00:35:26,997 --> 00:35:28,237
were arguing about something.
505
00:35:29,017 --> 00:35:33,497
And in the midst of that heated
argument for these young people,
506
00:35:34,637 --> 00:35:36,537
he's literally four, I remember it.
507
00:35:37,737 --> 00:35:40,807
And he looks at me and he says, well,
at least I know who my father is.
508
00:35:42,127 --> 00:35:48,907
As just like a, and then I just stopped
and just started bawling my eyes out.
509
00:35:49,047 --> 00:35:50,667
Like I can still feel it.
510
00:35:51,047 --> 00:35:53,787
Like I'm 43 years old and
I can still feel that.
511
00:35:55,317 --> 00:35:57,267
And my mom, she was very sweet.
512
00:35:58,187 --> 00:36:01,667
And she just turned around to
me, just crying my eyes out.
513
00:36:01,667 --> 00:36:03,467
And she just said, baby, I'm really sorry.
514
00:36:04,467 --> 00:36:09,667
And then she said, you just make sure
that you're a better father than yours is.
515
00:36:10,612 --> 00:36:13,342
And I don't remember if it was a
better father or just make sure that
516
00:36:13,342 --> 00:36:16,112
you are, yeah, I think it was better.
517
00:36:16,752 --> 00:36:21,712
She just said, you just make sure that
you are a better father than yours.
518
00:36:24,122 --> 00:36:27,422
And I took that on as a mantle
as a six or seven year old kid.
519
00:36:29,517 --> 00:36:35,807
And I know she meant well, but that
was a burden at that point where I was
520
00:36:35,807 --> 00:36:38,217
like, Oh, I'm going to become a father.
521
00:36:39,497 --> 00:36:43,477
And so then literally every girl
that I liked from the time that I
522
00:36:43,477 --> 00:36:47,717
was seven or eight years old, I was
like looking at his wife material.
523
00:36:48,007 --> 00:36:53,647
I was literally looking at them as, as
like prospective wife, because that to
524
00:36:53,647 --> 00:36:56,717
me was the pathway to having children.
525
00:36:57,137 --> 00:37:00,657
And so, and nobody
actually ever told me that.
526
00:37:01,007 --> 00:37:01,937
Which is interesting.
527
00:37:02,457 --> 00:37:07,537
Um, but that's what I equated to it
was, Alright, I'ma get married and have
528
00:37:07,537 --> 00:37:09,277
children so that I can be a father.
529
00:37:10,067 --> 00:37:18,707
And so, In my early 20s with my first
two children, Um, early mid 20s,
530
00:37:20,897 --> 00:37:27,147
There was great intention in terms of
how I allowed myself to be a father.
531
00:37:27,547 --> 00:37:32,637
And so, I mean, I was very nurturing
and, and loved kids at the time.
532
00:37:32,677 --> 00:37:37,327
And so it just was a delight for
me to have these little people to
533
00:37:37,337 --> 00:37:40,187
just love on and to explore with.
534
00:37:41,997 --> 00:37:45,787
And so for my first, my
oldest, who was born female.
535
00:37:46,682 --> 00:37:51,732
There was just this rich connection and I
was, my grandfather was the only man that
536
00:37:51,732 --> 00:37:53,942
really kind of stood out in my childhood.
537
00:37:54,522 --> 00:37:57,297
His best friend that I was named
after died long before I was born.
538
00:37:59,227 --> 00:38:03,807
Um, but he was just kind of a
quiet, I mean, he was in his
539
00:38:03,807 --> 00:38:05,207
sixties by the time I was born.
540
00:38:05,207 --> 00:38:09,167
So he was just kind of a reserved,
quiet old man at the time.
541
00:38:09,817 --> 00:38:15,397
And he said very few words, but I
remember just his presence, but there
542
00:38:15,397 --> 00:38:21,337
wasn't a lot of male like role models,
if you will, for me, my uncles were
543
00:38:21,337 --> 00:38:22,857
kind of bouncing around doing stuff.
544
00:38:23,087 --> 00:38:25,217
One of my uncles, he was the cool one.
545
00:38:25,217 --> 00:38:30,127
And so we would roll with him and
my cousin sometimes, and, um, But
546
00:38:30,127 --> 00:38:34,917
there was nobody who like instilled
anything in me and not anything,
547
00:38:34,917 --> 00:38:36,117
but just anything directly.
548
00:38:36,117 --> 00:38:39,117
Like this is how you parent.
549
00:38:40,277 --> 00:38:43,187
Uh, this is, this is what the
father son relationship is like.
550
00:38:43,187 --> 00:38:47,817
So with my oldest, who was
born female, I felt connected.
551
00:38:48,377 --> 00:38:51,487
I had my grandmother, I had an
older sister, had my mom, had
552
00:38:51,487 --> 00:38:52,497
all the women that were around.
553
00:38:52,497 --> 00:38:55,027
So I knew how to connect
with women in that way.
554
00:38:55,747 --> 00:38:58,717
But then when my son was born,
there was something that shifted
555
00:38:59,117 --> 00:39:02,237
where, and this was right at the
beginning of my police career too.
556
00:39:02,787 --> 00:39:06,517
So there was a lot of stress and a lot
of things happening, a lot of changes,
557
00:39:06,777 --> 00:39:13,507
but I felt like disconnected from him in
the father son relationship, because in
558
00:39:13,507 --> 00:39:15,847
my mind, I didn't grow up with a father.
559
00:39:15,847 --> 00:39:19,217
And so I don't know how to have a
relationship with a father and son.
560
00:39:20,467 --> 00:39:22,057
That's how it felt to me.
561
00:39:22,692 --> 00:39:29,702
And so, with the intention of
wanting to be a great father, I
562
00:39:29,702 --> 00:39:33,572
still didn't feel like I had the
faculties to do it with my son.
563
00:39:35,452 --> 00:39:38,062
And that is something I'm actually
even wrestling with today.
564
00:39:38,952 --> 00:39:45,412
Him being 17, and Uh, and with the
newborn, because my third one, when you
565
00:39:45,412 --> 00:39:49,632
said I had three children, I was like,
Oh, snap, I got three kids, she'll be
566
00:39:49,632 --> 00:39:52,542
six weeks like tomorrow, or Sunday.
567
00:39:54,202 --> 00:40:00,372
And, uh, I was nervous again, because
we didn't find out the sex of the baby.
568
00:40:01,152 --> 00:40:06,892
Until she was born, but, um, and
so the whole time I'm like, if
569
00:40:06,892 --> 00:40:09,162
it's a boy, how am I going to feel?
570
00:40:09,852 --> 00:40:13,032
So even though I was always looking
forward to it, and even though I had
571
00:40:13,032 --> 00:40:17,612
this great intention of being a quote
unquote better father than mine was,
572
00:40:18,062 --> 00:40:24,412
um, that felt like there was a huge
gap in my ability to deliver that.
573
00:40:25,272 --> 00:40:27,232
And so here I am, 43.
574
00:40:28,437 --> 00:40:34,307
And I have 19 year old, 17 year
old boy who's like, he just got
575
00:40:34,307 --> 00:40:35,867
taller than me a couple weeks ago.
576
00:40:36,642 --> 00:40:40,562
Um, and then this brand new baby.
577
00:40:40,782 --> 00:40:44,522
And so I'm working on one end of
like, what kind of father am I to
578
00:40:44,522 --> 00:40:46,972
let, like, how do I let them go well?
579
00:40:47,542 --> 00:40:49,532
And then I'm ushering in this other one.
580
00:40:49,532 --> 00:40:55,982
And so how, so I feel this stretch in
my own fatherhood that is, um, yeah,
581
00:40:56,042 --> 00:40:59,392
it's really, really, it's daunting
582
00:41:03,042 --> 00:41:05,522
and not in a negative way, but I'm
just like, I know, I don't know
583
00:41:05,522 --> 00:41:07,362
what I'm doing and that's okay.
584
00:41:09,232 --> 00:41:13,642
But the feeling of disappointment
has been really sticky.
585
00:41:14,467 --> 00:41:18,117
between me and my
relationship with my son.
586
00:41:18,147 --> 00:41:20,197
And it's not even that
I'm disappointed in him.
587
00:41:20,627 --> 00:41:25,487
I feel like I've disappointed myself
somehow in what my expectations of
588
00:41:25,497 --> 00:41:28,127
being a father were at six or seven.
589
00:41:28,837 --> 00:41:33,807
Cause I did imagine it, but I
didn't deliver it in the way
590
00:41:33,807 --> 00:41:35,167
that I thought I wanted to.
591
00:41:36,587 --> 00:41:42,412
And so I felt like I missed out on a
lot of his early Like heart connection
592
00:41:42,412 --> 00:41:46,492
years, um, and I didn't even feel
emotionally connected to him until he
593
00:41:46,492 --> 00:41:52,172
was like four and that kind of still
reverberates in, in our relationship
594
00:41:52,942 --> 00:41:54,892
where it's just a little awkward.
595
00:41:55,572 --> 00:42:02,242
I don't really know how to, um, feel
like I'm connected with him as much as.
596
00:42:03,287 --> 00:42:04,797
He seems like he's connected with me.
597
00:42:04,797 --> 00:42:08,897
So yes, there was great intention and
I know that I've been present as a
598
00:42:08,897 --> 00:42:15,257
father and I know that I've been very
connecting and loving and, uh, protective
599
00:42:15,257 --> 00:42:19,767
when necessary and have helped them
be the kind of people who still want
600
00:42:19,767 --> 00:42:25,507
to talk to me and in their, you know,
To some degree, like they, and that's
601
00:42:25,507 --> 00:42:27,307
been kind of my North Star is like,
602
00:42:31,037 --> 00:42:35,467
I don't know what I'm doing,
but I want to keep the lines of
603
00:42:35,467 --> 00:42:39,417
communication open so that we can
figure it out together, if necessary.
604
00:42:40,127 --> 00:42:44,907
And so that's, that's the best that
I think I could have done so far.
605
00:42:45,537 --> 00:42:49,792
Um, But yeah, my kids are great,
like they're great people.
606
00:42:51,822 --> 00:42:55,712
It's just as a father, me wrestling
with my own fatherhood the other
607
00:42:55,722 --> 00:43:00,682
way, where I felt abandoned early on.
608
00:43:00,962 --> 00:43:03,582
And then I felt abandoned a
second time when he passed away.
609
00:43:04,142 --> 00:43:09,272
Um, I just am unsure what I'm
delivering to my own children.
610
00:43:13,502 --> 00:43:17,457
I, well, I mean, for you
to have that awareness.
611
00:43:19,317 --> 00:43:21,337
How would father the children?
612
00:43:21,367 --> 00:43:25,377
I think that says a lot that
you are presently you're trying.
613
00:43:25,597 --> 00:43:26,467
I am curious.
614
00:43:26,847 --> 00:43:33,297
Have you ever asked your son, like how
you like, how he looks at you as a father?
615
00:43:34,247 --> 00:43:34,917
Yeah.
616
00:43:34,967 --> 00:43:37,367
Um, actually very recently.
617
00:43:38,197 --> 00:43:38,917
And.
618
00:43:43,322 --> 00:43:49,022
It's funny, we've been getting into
a lot more heated discussions lately.
619
00:43:49,282 --> 00:43:51,112
And again, my son is amazing.
620
00:43:51,392 --> 00:43:55,082
He's very considerate
and loving and caring.
621
00:43:55,082 --> 00:43:59,192
And so the things that I focus on
with him are like very small compared
622
00:43:59,192 --> 00:44:02,662
to what parents might typically
worry about for their children.
623
00:44:04,272 --> 00:44:07,892
But I'm adamant about how
much the small things matter.
624
00:44:09,532 --> 00:44:16,012
But I've made a mistake of, at least
in my part, of feeling like Of causing
625
00:44:16,012 --> 00:44:19,772
him to reflect back to me that he feels
like I'm just grilling him all the time.
626
00:44:20,372 --> 00:44:24,922
I'm just talking about what's wrong,
um, and I feel that pressure inside.
627
00:44:25,432 --> 00:44:27,982
And so, I've asked him,
628
00:44:29,992 --> 00:44:34,202
he's, he's volunteered at
times in these conversations.
629
00:44:35,532 --> 00:44:38,472
It's like he just wants to put the
mirror up at me that the things that
630
00:44:38,472 --> 00:44:44,352
I'm telling him are things that I'm not
actually Reflecting to him in my behavior.
631
00:44:45,042 --> 00:44:50,272
And so it feels like really petty But
it's often that in those conversation.
632
00:44:50,272 --> 00:44:57,352
He's like He's like, you do the same thing
and, and so I have to take that as like
633
00:44:57,352 --> 00:45:01,452
his, him giving me insight unsolicited.
634
00:45:01,692 --> 00:45:06,512
And then recently I did ask him
because they both have expressed
635
00:45:07,262 --> 00:45:11,492
feeling negatively about how I operate.
636
00:45:13,757 --> 00:45:24,157
And, and so I just kind of talked
about feeling like a, not a bad
637
00:45:24,157 --> 00:45:26,777
father, but that's what I'm,
that's what I'm questioning.
638
00:45:26,797 --> 00:45:31,257
It's like, have I done well with him?
639
00:45:31,827 --> 00:45:33,837
And so he thinks I'm a great person.
640
00:45:34,157 --> 00:45:35,307
Like that was, that's what he said.
641
00:45:35,307 --> 00:45:36,287
He thinks I'm a great person.
642
00:45:36,287 --> 00:45:39,467
I just don't listen as
well as he'd like me to.
643
00:45:40,387 --> 00:45:42,937
And so that's the
feedback that I've gotten.
644
00:45:43,707 --> 00:45:46,207
And then some other feedback that.
645
00:45:46,287 --> 00:45:51,877
It wasn't really feedback to me,
but he's had a couple of different
646
00:45:51,877 --> 00:45:53,577
girlfriends over the last few years.
647
00:45:54,787 --> 00:45:59,997
And he just was talking one day about
how all their parents and everybody
648
00:45:59,997 --> 00:46:02,677
around them just rave about him.
649
00:46:03,387 --> 00:46:06,837
Talk about how respectful he is and all
these good qualities and all these things.
650
00:46:07,507 --> 00:46:09,947
And then this was the part that got me.
651
00:46:09,947 --> 00:46:11,797
He said, yeah, I get that from my dad.
652
00:46:12,737 --> 00:46:19,057
And yeah, I didn't know
that he saw me that way one.
653
00:46:19,107 --> 00:46:19,547
And.
654
00:46:20,257 --> 00:46:24,927
And I knew that he displayed those things,
but the fact that he attributed his good
655
00:46:25,747 --> 00:46:28,807
qualities to me was something that was,
656
00:46:31,527 --> 00:46:32,597
yeah, it was surprising.
657
00:46:36,247 --> 00:46:37,397
Yeah, it was surprising.
658
00:46:38,817 --> 00:46:40,657
Cause I didn't think that
he thought of me that way.
659
00:46:45,197 --> 00:46:51,387
Yeah, he's reflected to me a lot, um,
because again, we have some continuous
660
00:46:51,387 --> 00:46:58,697
communication, almost too much for
my, that my wife says, um, basically
661
00:46:58,697 --> 00:47:00,377
I talk too much is what they say.
662
00:47:02,947 --> 00:47:06,547
Which is one of the, ironically, not
ironically, one of the things that I
663
00:47:06,777 --> 00:47:14,317
have, Harped on him about over the course
of his life is like being not talking
664
00:47:14,317 --> 00:47:17,497
as much because he literally would just
be making sounds and talking and just
665
00:47:17,497 --> 00:47:23,987
saying stuff just for no reason, but,
or just for his own entertainment and
666
00:47:26,197 --> 00:47:29,627
yeah, to be reckoning with that now
myself, or it's like, Oh, I guess I do
667
00:47:29,627 --> 00:47:37,247
talk too much and to be trying to reserve
myself more, um, in conversations, at
668
00:47:37,247 --> 00:47:40,667
least with him, because if he's saying
that I don't listen as much, then I guess
669
00:47:40,677 --> 00:47:42,357
the thing that I'm doing is talking.
670
00:47:42,892 --> 00:47:49,512
Um, so yeah, it's obviously a journey,
but the feedback that I've gotten from
671
00:47:49,962 --> 00:47:54,832
both of them has been mixed, where
they're just very transparent about the
672
00:47:54,832 --> 00:48:00,062
things that they don't like, but then
they're also very, uh, complimentary
673
00:48:00,062 --> 00:48:03,072
with the things that they think are
good, even if they don't like them.
674
00:48:05,472 --> 00:48:10,572
You know, and I always believe that
for them to be able to share that with
675
00:48:10,592 --> 00:48:13,597
you, it's, it's You've done a good
job, because they feel safe with you.
676
00:48:15,707 --> 00:48:18,127
Yeah, yeah, and that's what I said.
677
00:48:18,177 --> 00:48:24,697
That's, that's, it's like if I haven't
done anything, at least I have kept
678
00:48:25,182 --> 00:48:29,492
The lines of communication open
where we can figure stuff out still.
679
00:48:30,152 --> 00:48:35,792
And my oldest will talk about stuff that
I don't care to hear all the time, but
680
00:48:35,792 --> 00:48:38,902
I'm grateful that it's being shared.
681
00:48:39,602 --> 00:48:42,032
Like, literally like intimate things.
682
00:48:42,592 --> 00:48:46,842
And just casually talking to
me, casually, you know, cussing.
683
00:48:47,482 --> 00:48:51,302
Like, I'm just like, okay, I guess I am a
safe place for them to just be themselves.
684
00:48:55,262 --> 00:49:02,722
So yes, it's a mixed bag of feelings
because on one end, that intention
685
00:49:02,722 --> 00:49:07,732
of just being quote unquote
better father, um, I was present.
686
00:49:08,382 --> 00:49:09,572
I mean, I am present.
687
00:49:11,342 --> 00:49:14,402
There have been times where that
has been weaponized against me in
688
00:49:14,402 --> 00:49:16,002
conversations with my oldest though.
689
00:49:16,272 --> 00:49:21,432
Like in some of the intense moments
where it was something like, what you
690
00:49:21,442 --> 00:49:26,222
think that just being around is like, you
know, what being a good father is like,
691
00:49:26,222 --> 00:49:28,692
that's a low bar or something like that.
692
00:49:28,902 --> 00:49:31,252
I don't remember exactly the
words, but that was the sentiment.
693
00:49:32,062 --> 00:49:33,172
And uh,
694
00:49:35,642 --> 00:49:40,522
so it was a very mixed bag, but
I've definitely just been present.
695
00:49:40,922 --> 00:49:44,662
available to them in the ways that
696
00:49:46,962 --> 00:49:48,482
at least I think are most meaningful.
697
00:49:49,952 --> 00:49:54,102
So, I mean, the jury's still
out, obviously the, the parenting
698
00:49:54,102 --> 00:49:56,522
relationship, it just continues to grow.
699
00:49:56,612 --> 00:49:58,282
So it's always new.
700
00:49:59,572 --> 00:50:00,492
It's always new.
701
00:50:00,762 --> 00:50:01,982
Each one of them is different.
702
00:50:03,137 --> 00:50:07,197
Like even having the newborn, it's like,
I don't feel like I know what I'm doing.
703
00:50:07,357 --> 00:50:12,757
I, I recognize I'm less worried about
things just going crazy for no reason.
704
00:50:13,087 --> 00:50:14,957
And I, I don't worry.
705
00:50:16,167 --> 00:50:20,457
I wasn't prone to worry before, but
I worry even less now about things.
706
00:50:21,167 --> 00:50:22,737
And so that's out of the way.
707
00:50:22,867 --> 00:50:28,127
But in terms of like how to parent,
I don't have, I don't have a clue.
708
00:50:29,207 --> 00:50:31,327
So, and each stage is different.
709
00:50:31,327 --> 00:50:32,757
So now that they're getting into their.
710
00:50:33,077 --> 00:50:34,417
You know, they're in their late teens.
711
00:50:34,417 --> 00:50:35,527
They'll be in their 20s.
712
00:50:35,537 --> 00:50:36,757
They're starting relationships.
713
00:50:36,757 --> 00:50:37,457
They're doing this.
714
00:50:37,697 --> 00:50:39,047
I don't know how to do any of that.
715
00:50:40,147 --> 00:50:44,357
So it's all figuring out in real time.
716
00:50:48,194 --> 00:50:49,074
We have a few minutes.
717
00:50:49,074 --> 00:50:53,584
I would love for you to talk about
your book love with no place to land.
718
00:50:53,944 --> 00:50:56,614
And also a second book is coming out.
719
00:50:56,664 --> 00:50:56,944
Yeah.
720
00:50:56,944 --> 00:51:02,554
So my book, after I left law enforcement,
I went on this journey of really
721
00:51:02,914 --> 00:51:12,234
looking to reactivate my, my heart
and be connected and feel like I'm
722
00:51:12,734 --> 00:51:16,334
expressive and, and contributing
to the world in a positive way.
723
00:51:18,969 --> 00:51:23,629
I really opened myself up and learned
some significant things about the concept
724
00:51:23,629 --> 00:51:29,559
of kindness and the ability for the
practice of kindness to heal trauma.
725
00:51:30,319 --> 00:51:30,949
And
726
00:51:33,159 --> 00:51:41,459
it led me into this world of
experimentation of this practice
727
00:51:41,459 --> 00:51:45,579
or this principle that really
generated a lot of well being over
728
00:51:45,579 --> 00:51:49,809
the course of the next year after
I left my law enforcement career.
729
00:51:50,559 --> 00:51:58,479
And then, um, I was married
for almost 14 years at the time
730
00:51:58,479 --> 00:52:01,149
and my wife died by suicide.
731
00:52:02,539 --> 00:52:05,849
And it was through that experience
that I felt like my heart just
732
00:52:05,849 --> 00:52:11,419
kind of got cracked wide open,
where I was feeling even more
733
00:52:11,419 --> 00:52:13,119
deeply than I had in a long time.
734
00:52:15,934 --> 00:52:21,674
It opened me up to so much more goodness,
but surrendering to my, surrendering
735
00:52:21,704 --> 00:52:25,094
through my grief journey, rather than
736
00:52:27,504 --> 00:52:32,064
saying that I had to do it a certain
way or, um, and just let it flow.
737
00:52:32,184 --> 00:52:35,214
Like, I never stopped myself from
expressing the emotions when they
738
00:52:35,214 --> 00:52:38,894
came up and I just rode those
waves whenever and wherever I was.
739
00:52:39,924 --> 00:52:44,244
And I feel like that, I believe
that that is what contributed to
740
00:52:44,244 --> 00:52:51,114
such a, a swift, um, And dynamic
change in my life at the time, said
741
00:52:51,114 --> 00:52:53,444
I just wanted to, to keep living.
742
00:52:54,274 --> 00:53:02,194
Um, and so I remember after, uh, she
passed away and we were still at the
743
00:53:02,204 --> 00:53:08,724
church during the repast or, or whatever
it is and having a meal and then everybody
744
00:53:09,194 --> 00:53:13,824
was leaving and it was just me and maybe
a couple of other people just cleaning
745
00:53:13,824 --> 00:53:19,214
up and this heaviness just came over
me where it was like, this was done.
746
00:53:21,954 --> 00:53:26,134
I felt the temptation to want to
just crawl into a hole somewhere
747
00:53:28,544 --> 00:53:29,934
and it was very heavy.
748
00:53:31,454 --> 00:53:34,454
And then I remembered that I
wasn't the only one going through
749
00:53:34,454 --> 00:53:37,924
it, that it was, that my children
were experiencing this too.
750
00:53:38,654 --> 00:53:40,584
And what did they need?
751
00:53:41,064 --> 00:53:47,164
And do, would I want to add
insult to injury by like having
752
00:53:47,164 --> 00:53:48,364
them lose another parent?
753
00:53:49,129 --> 00:53:55,289
You know, figuratively speaking,
and so I just decided that I just
754
00:53:55,289 --> 00:53:57,359
wanted to live and open my heart up.
755
00:53:58,029 --> 00:54:04,709
And so, the vision that I got around
that was, um, the discovery, if you
756
00:54:04,709 --> 00:54:09,529
will, that I see grief as this, as
the healing process that occurs when
757
00:54:09,529 --> 00:54:11,129
we go through significant changes.
758
00:54:11,699 --> 00:54:17,449
And, that when we, We have a
significant change, the energy or
759
00:54:17,449 --> 00:54:20,569
the emotion or the love that we had
going into the particular thing that
760
00:54:20,569 --> 00:54:25,869
shifted is now like a fluttering bird
that doesn't have anywhere to go.
761
00:54:26,269 --> 00:54:29,659
And so that was the idea of the
title love with no place to land.
762
00:54:30,259 --> 00:54:36,449
And so it was that love is the,
your love or your, the livelihood or
763
00:54:36,449 --> 00:54:39,519
connection that you had to something
that shifted, it could be anything,
764
00:54:39,879 --> 00:54:41,209
you know, we feel those changes.
765
00:54:41,534 --> 00:54:45,884
Most significantly when it's somebody
significant in our life who dies, but
766
00:54:45,884 --> 00:54:51,304
it's not because of them Leaving so
to speak as much as it is that we have
767
00:54:51,304 --> 00:54:56,264
to reorient our identity in the world
And so love in no place to land is
768
00:54:56,264 --> 00:55:01,084
this I call it a vibe because it's a
virtual interactive book experience.
769
00:55:01,544 --> 00:55:08,284
It has some Multimedia stuff that
goes with it that kind of walks people
770
00:55:08,284 --> 00:55:16,369
through their own course of And so
I share my story in it, obviously,
771
00:55:16,729 --> 00:55:20,159
and then extract the principles
that I gained during those times.
772
00:55:20,689 --> 00:55:24,789
And the hopes is that it just helps
people leverage grief into growth.
773
00:55:25,419 --> 00:55:28,219
That grief is what it is.
774
00:55:28,639 --> 00:55:34,489
But, I've chosen to believe that when
we go through those changes, it is an
775
00:55:34,499 --> 00:55:37,399
elevating experience if we allow it to be.
776
00:55:37,759 --> 00:55:44,019
And so surrendering to that
process, um, is what helps it be
777
00:55:44,019 --> 00:55:45,729
a smoother, easier transition.
778
00:55:46,389 --> 00:55:48,759
And so it's my story in part.
779
00:55:48,769 --> 00:55:52,149
And then those principles
that helped me have.
780
00:55:52,744 --> 00:55:58,524
A relatively short, quote unquote,
short, uh, intensive initial grieving
781
00:55:58,524 --> 00:56:04,864
experience of just a few months
before I was fully open and living.
782
00:56:08,234 --> 00:56:08,994
Thanks for sharing that.
783
00:56:08,994 --> 00:56:10,804
It's, uh, that's far.
784
00:56:10,884 --> 00:56:11,254
When
785
00:56:13,329 --> 00:56:18,549
When your first wife, when she passed, did
your community step in and look after you?
786
00:56:18,549 --> 00:56:19,119
Absolutely.
787
00:56:19,309 --> 00:56:20,009
Absolutely.
788
00:56:20,549 --> 00:56:22,229
Um, immediately.
789
00:56:22,789 --> 00:56:27,899
Um, we were surrounded by folks and
I was in California at the time.
790
00:56:27,899 --> 00:56:31,929
So, um, I was in the process
of transitioning to California.
791
00:56:32,659 --> 00:56:36,709
And so I came back to my
hometown of Kansas City and yeah.
792
00:56:37,314 --> 00:56:39,294
I mean, my kids were always taken care of.
793
00:56:39,614 --> 00:56:45,414
Uh, I mean, people gave us
resources and money and, uh, time.
794
00:56:45,904 --> 00:56:50,004
And it was, dare I say, it was easy.
795
00:56:50,349 --> 00:56:55,909
It was easy because of having such a
great, supportive, connected community.
796
00:56:56,419 --> 00:57:01,999
I mean, literally after the funeral,
the, the church was like right
797
00:57:02,009 --> 00:57:04,619
down the street from the house that
we lived in, like a block away.
798
00:57:05,159 --> 00:57:10,469
And we hadn't finished cleaning out
everything from that house and, um, cause
799
00:57:10,569 --> 00:57:12,149
we were again in transition to moving.
800
00:57:13,739 --> 00:57:16,309
And then she died in that
house when I was away.
801
00:57:16,864 --> 00:57:20,414
Um, and so it was the first
time that I had even been there
802
00:57:20,414 --> 00:57:24,724
really, or had the courage to go
in there, uh, since she had died.
803
00:57:25,274 --> 00:57:30,214
And it was a little, a group of, I
don't know, six, seven, eight guys
804
00:57:30,264 --> 00:57:34,394
that just kind of randomly came over,
brought some cigars and some whiskey.
805
00:57:34,764 --> 00:57:40,519
And we ended up just sitting around the
table and they just let me Let me talk
806
00:57:40,629 --> 00:57:44,979
if I was if I wanted to and then we moved
outside or to the porch to smoke cigars
807
00:57:44,979 --> 00:57:52,159
and we just kept just communing and It
was just the feeling of being held up
808
00:57:52,299 --> 00:57:54,839
like nobody did anything in particular.
809
00:57:54,839 --> 00:57:58,734
They just were present And
that definitely allowed me.
810
00:57:58,734 --> 00:58:01,394
Meanwhile, my children are with
another part of the community.
811
00:58:01,634 --> 00:58:05,944
And so, yes, community was
central to my ability to, um,
812
00:58:08,044 --> 00:58:14,074
heal in a, in a way that felt really
easy compared to what it could have been.
813
00:58:15,974 --> 00:58:20,484
Last question of the
podcast is always any advice
814
00:58:26,917 --> 00:58:30,257
I've just been open to where
this conversation has gone and
815
00:58:30,257 --> 00:58:32,857
so I'm grateful for that flow.
816
00:58:34,322 --> 00:58:37,662
If I was going to leave anybody with
anything in this conversation, though,
817
00:58:38,042 --> 00:58:43,412
especially being a BIPOC audience,
818
00:58:45,622 --> 00:58:49,142
the tendency I've noticed, at least
in the Black community and maybe in
819
00:58:49,182 --> 00:58:55,612
others, is that when we feel like
there is no, uh, equality or justice or
820
00:58:55,612 --> 00:59:01,312
things of that nature, the tendency is
to want to fight for justice or fight
821
00:59:01,322 --> 00:59:05,482
for, um, the tendency is to fight.
822
00:59:05,782 --> 00:59:09,562
And I believe that fighting
does have a place, um, but it's
823
00:59:09,562 --> 00:59:13,922
a very rare and rarely needed.
824
00:59:14,637 --> 00:59:17,727
And what I've learned in my life
is that surrender over struggle
825
00:59:18,137 --> 00:59:26,047
has been a very, um, elevating and
accelerating, um, thing to incorporate.
826
00:59:26,657 --> 00:59:34,347
That when I've just, when I trust that
life is good and that it's working for my
827
00:59:34,347 --> 00:59:40,162
benefit, That the most challenging things
that I go through, I really intended
828
00:59:40,162 --> 00:59:47,242
to move me forward and move me up in
my self, um, actualization, realization
829
00:59:47,242 --> 00:59:49,572
of who I am, the growth of who I am.
830
00:59:50,892 --> 00:59:56,142
And so, if there was anything, if
there's anybody listening that is prone
831
00:59:56,142 --> 01:00:02,022
to fight, internally or externally, to
give yourself the gift of surrender.
832
01:00:03,047 --> 01:00:07,837
to know that you are taken care of
and that all the good things that
833
01:00:07,837 --> 01:00:11,627
you desire can be available to you.
834
01:00:12,497 --> 01:00:18,347
Um, yeah, that's what I would love for
them to get that in their experience.
835
01:00:18,637 --> 01:00:23,337
Cause I know viscerally, we like just
react to things and feel like we got to
836
01:00:23,337 --> 01:00:30,277
just like, But that guardedness of the
fight stance, it has two aspects to it.
837
01:00:30,277 --> 01:00:30,547
Yeah.
838
01:00:30,567 --> 01:00:34,907
One, there might not be things
that get in as easily, but the
839
01:00:34,907 --> 01:00:38,117
greatness and the goodness of who
we are, doesn't get out as well.
840
01:00:38,587 --> 01:00:42,387
And that's the part that we miss,
that we don't get to experience
841
01:00:42,417 --> 01:00:49,767
ourselves being whatever we think is
the greatest because we're guarded.
842
01:00:50,727 --> 01:00:58,367
And so open your heart and surrender
to the goodness of your life and
843
01:01:01,027 --> 01:01:02,867
yeah, watch yourself evolve.
844
01:01:04,927 --> 01:01:11,077
Cause I believe that we are on a, on our
way to a time that, um, the, the ills
845
01:01:11,097 --> 01:01:17,897
of European colonialism are waning, um,
and over the next couple of decades and
846
01:01:17,907 --> 01:01:22,797
century, it will be all but eradicated.
847
01:01:22,798 --> 01:01:28,167
And I believe that because I think
it's a natural cycle of life that.
848
01:01:28,767 --> 01:01:32,557
The things that have been set up
just don't have the ability to be
849
01:01:32,557 --> 01:01:34,427
sustained and they will break down.
850
01:01:34,887 --> 01:01:41,157
And so if we can just participate in
that process, um, by giving the greatness
851
01:01:41,157 --> 01:01:43,687
that we are to the world, then it
852
01:01:45,757 --> 01:01:49,847
can be much more enjoyable
and less energy exhaustive.
853
01:01:52,027 --> 01:01:54,947
A hundred percent, because
whatever you resist, persists.
854
01:01:55,637 --> 01:01:55,947
Yeah.
855
01:01:56,377 --> 01:01:56,757
Yeah.
856
01:01:57,317 --> 01:01:57,817
Totally.
857
01:01:58,757 --> 01:02:00,227
Give it, you give it power.
858
01:02:03,542 --> 01:02:07,152
You know, I'm just going to say
this, but surrendering is hard.
859
01:02:07,153 --> 01:02:07,877
It can be.
860
01:02:07,877 --> 01:02:08,601
It can be.
861
01:02:08,601 --> 01:02:11,062
It requires an immense amount of faith.
862
01:02:11,372 --> 01:02:11,672
Yes.
863
01:02:11,682 --> 01:02:13,742
It requires an immense
amount of positive faith.
864
01:02:13,762 --> 01:02:14,982
We have negative faith.
865
01:02:15,502 --> 01:02:19,212
We have faith in the things that we
don't think are going to go well.
866
01:02:19,622 --> 01:02:23,232
And so we bolster ourselves in
anticipation of those things,
867
01:02:23,232 --> 01:02:24,442
but that's an act of faith.
868
01:02:24,902 --> 01:02:26,992
It's a misuse of faith, in my opinion.
869
01:02:28,052 --> 01:02:33,442
And so, yes, it feels hard
to surrender, but it's only.
870
01:02:33,757 --> 01:02:40,027
Because we have a natural biological
tendency to fight to survive.
871
01:02:40,557 --> 01:02:44,027
But where we are in the modern
world is that we don't have the
872
01:02:44,027 --> 01:02:48,187
same kind of threats that our body
was designed to fight against.
873
01:02:48,627 --> 01:02:50,437
And so these are all internal.
874
01:02:51,157 --> 01:02:55,617
And we do have the ability to
wield those things when we, uh, put
875
01:02:55,627 --> 01:02:57,797
attention and intention into it.
876
01:02:59,627 --> 01:03:01,467
Yeah, I often tell clients that too.
877
01:03:02,447 --> 01:03:02,767
Trust.
878
01:03:02,897 --> 01:03:03,777
Trust in the process.
879
01:03:04,287 --> 01:03:05,717
Yeah, you're still here.
880
01:03:07,242 --> 01:03:11,052
Like, if you have the ability, and this
is one of the things that I share with
881
01:03:11,052 --> 01:03:15,812
folks, is like, if you have the ability
to assess your sense of safety, then
882
01:03:15,812 --> 01:03:17,552
the likelihood that you're safe is high.
883
01:03:20,072 --> 01:03:25,492
If you have enough of some stillness
in your, your sphere, in your world
884
01:03:25,672 --> 01:03:28,402
to be like, I want to feel safe.
885
01:03:28,403 --> 01:03:30,472
It's like, how are you doing that?
886
01:03:30,472 --> 01:03:34,032
Because if you were actually
in imminent danger, your, all
887
01:03:34,032 --> 01:03:35,542
your faculties would go into.
888
01:03:36,737 --> 01:03:39,697
into, into work, they would, they
would go to work and you wouldn't
889
01:03:39,697 --> 01:03:41,487
even be aware of what you were doing.
890
01:03:42,247 --> 01:03:43,977
That's how well we are designed.
891
01:03:44,087 --> 01:03:45,507
That's how well we work.
892
01:03:45,537 --> 01:03:47,067
This is a great system.
893
01:03:49,637 --> 01:03:55,867
And so I, and I've seen this, I mean,
in my police work, it's like when
894
01:03:55,897 --> 01:04:00,617
there is actually something that is
dangerous, you just respond, you react.
895
01:04:00,932 --> 01:04:02,972
It's not a thing that
you have to think about.
896
01:04:03,342 --> 01:04:07,592
And so if you're thinking about
danger, you're probably not in it.
897
01:04:09,812 --> 01:04:14,152
And so the surrender part is like, Oh,
this is just my mind doing what it does.
898
01:04:19,892 --> 01:04:22,962
Thank you for such a
rich conversation, Don.
899
01:04:23,172 --> 01:04:23,312
Thank you.
900
01:04:23,313 --> 01:04:25,922
I really, really loved having you on.
901
01:04:26,242 --> 01:04:31,142
My Chinese auntie, we're
here, I'm excited about that.
902
01:04:31,142 --> 01:04:35,522
I was like, I never had
a Chinese auntie, so.
903
01:04:36,712 --> 01:04:38,392
I'm happy to be your Chinese auntie.
904
01:04:38,902 --> 01:04:39,402
Thank you.
905
01:04:39,712 --> 01:04:40,532
I am grateful.
906
01:04:40,533 --> 01:04:43,962
This is, this is an excellent,
excellent conversation.
907
01:04:44,132 --> 01:04:48,832
Um, thank you very much for
your time and attention.
908
01:04:49,542 --> 01:04:50,042
Thank you.
909
01:04:52,856 --> 01:04:54,716
Trust and surrender.
910
01:04:55,646 --> 01:04:57,026
It can be hard.
911
01:04:57,716 --> 01:05:02,006
When you're going through a difficult
time to trust that things will work out.
912
01:05:04,226 --> 01:05:07,496
But, you know, I often
think about it this way is.
913
01:05:09,446 --> 01:05:10,886
If you do your best.
914
01:05:12,596 --> 01:05:15,116
And you've explored all your options.
915
01:05:16,076 --> 01:05:20,046
Slow down surrender because what
other options do you have?
916
01:05:20,746 --> 01:05:23,506
Always remember to call in your community.
917
01:05:23,936 --> 01:05:27,446
I've said this in previous episodes,
if you don't have community,
918
01:05:27,446 --> 01:05:29,156
because you are an immigrant.
919
01:05:29,516 --> 01:05:33,656
Or you don't have family close
by start building community.
920
01:05:34,016 --> 01:05:35,426
Join book clubs.
921
01:05:36,056 --> 01:05:38,576
Join a community center.
922
01:05:38,666 --> 01:05:39,656
If you can.
923
01:05:40,766 --> 01:05:44,306
Take some classes, or do
some volunteering work.
924
01:05:44,906 --> 01:05:47,726
We are not meant to live this life alone.
925
01:05:49,046 --> 01:05:50,516
Take care of yourself.
926
01:05:53,677 --> 01:05:56,827
Thanks so much for listening to
this episode of the Conversations
927
01:05:56,827 --> 01:05:58,287
With Your Chinese Auntie Podcast.
928
01:05:58,727 --> 01:06:01,577
If you're enjoying the show, please
feel free to rate, subscribe,
929
01:06:01,637 --> 01:06:03,887
and leave a review wherever
you listen to your podcasts.
930
01:06:04,427 --> 01:06:07,257
That helps others find the show,
and we greatly appreciate it.
931
01:06:07,797 --> 01:06:10,387
Also, remember to sign up
for our newsletter to receive
932
01:06:10,397 --> 01:06:11,757
free materials and updates.
933
01:06:12,297 --> 01:06:14,857
Links in the website, patriciapetersen.
934
01:06:14,877 --> 01:06:15,417
ca.
935
01:06:15,807 --> 01:06:22,187
That's P A T R I C I A P E T E R S E N.
936
01:06:22,197 --> 01:06:23,047
C A.
937
01:06:23,647 --> 01:06:25,067
Again, thanks for listening.
938
01:06:25,307 --> 01:06:28,657
We hope you have a great week, and
we'll see you in the next episode.