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Hello and welcome to Community Chats.
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I'm Brad Saunders, the CEO of Community Living Toronto.
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My guest today is Karen Bell, the Executive Director of Micro Boards Ontario.
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Karen has a long background in developmental services, and her work now is focused on helping people with disabilities and their families build microboards.
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For anyone who hasn't come across this idea, it's new to Ontario in the last number of years.
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A microboard is a small group of people who commit to supporting one person.
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It usually includes family and friends and others.
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They form a small not-for-profit that is really focused on one person.
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The idea being that that person stays at the center of decisions about their own life, including where they live, who supports them, and what they want for their future.
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It really puts self-determined into practice.
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Belonging begins with listening, so grab a tea or a coffee and enjoy the conversation.
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Karen Bell, thanks for joining us today.
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Thank you.
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Nice to be here.
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Good to see you.
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Uh, we're recording this on uh National Day of Truth and Reconciliation.
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So I am wearing an orange uh shirt.
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Um uh one because I'm kind of cold, but also because this is a great, a great sweatshirt and I want to recognize and honor that day.
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I think it's important that we all take time to do so.
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Um a little plug, a little plug for the shirt here.
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Um uh our office on 20 Spadina at 20 Spadina is uh a couple of doors up from uh the Native Canadian Center, who have been uh great neighbors and they have a gift shop that uh is we'll put a link to in the show notes.
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They sell great wearable stuff, they have artwork, they have uh a number of things that it's worth going in and browsing, but they also have things online that you can buy as well.
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So I would encourage people to uh to check them out if you're in the neighborhood or look them up online.
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Awesome.
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All right.
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Um again, thanks for joining us.
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You're uh Karen, we've known each other a long time.
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Hello, why don't we start with a a little bit about um how you got involved in uh developmental services and working in the disability community?
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Um what what what what brought you here and how long you've sort of been been hanging around?
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So it was not a planned career.
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Um I happened to be an arts graduate from U of T who uh needed a job when there were very few arts jobs.
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So I got hired by Community Living Toronto pretty much shortly after I was done university and said I would give it a year.
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And uh fell in love with the sector, like started meeting people.
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I started teaching art classes as a volunteer in the off hours, and it just became a really amazing place to work where you got to to be around so many different people and your work was it meant something, you know, and uh and stayed.
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And and it's been I was in it for 20 some odd years at Community Living Toronto and left for a brief sojourn to to uh Calgary and then came home and really missed the sector, you know, had a lot of friends who worked and were supported by the sector and really just um wanted to get back into it.
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So a was not living in Toronto anymore, as you know.
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And uh after doing some consulting work, this opportunity to work with um two people I greatly admired at Microboards Ontario, offered me a job, and here we are, four years later.
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Excellent.
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Now, Calgary, beautiful place.
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Um, I actually visited you when you were out there.
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We were on a trip, and I I I had not taken the time to tour that province until then.
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It's gorgeous.
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Uh it's a beautiful place, beautiful place.
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Um, but welcome back.
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Glad you came, glad you came back.
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Um and at Community Learning Toronto you held a number of different roles, including you did a lot with working with government and you did a lot of communications.
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Um and this role that you're in now leading an organization.
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Uh you talked about a couple of people that inspired you and and and created the opportunity.
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Do you want to drop some names and say who uh who brought you into this?
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I will.
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To micropresentariat was Xavier Nordemir, who is a community uh executive director at Community Living Windsor, who was always doing really innovative things, especially around you know, housing, individualized funding, and was always out there on the cusp and just a lovely human being, as you know.
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And then the other one who I know has been on the podcast is Brendan Poorn.
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Oh, yeah.
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Again, someone who is changing the sector through his values and through um what he has I I think brought to the sector in a in a lens that we are now looking at things through.
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And so could not say no to the opportunity to work for them.
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They're they're on the board.
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So Brendan's not on the board, but yeah.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Still, still very involved, still very involved and supportive, though.
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The I I first heard about microboards um when I was uh visiting some organizations in British Columbia uh and got to meet, and I is it is it Vela or Vatha?
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Vela Canada, yeah.
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Vela Canada there, and they have a couple of thousand or so uh micro boards, 1,500 that have been set up and operating for many uh many years.
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So it's a thriving model.
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I was really thrilled to hear that it was coming to Ontario, and we are going to try to make that part of our sector and make it an option uh for people.
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Also, I thought it really aligned with what's happening uh potentially with journey to belonging.
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So really glad that that that's here.
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Um so microboards.
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What is a microboard?
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How does how does this how does this work?
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So a microboard, to put it very plainly, is when friends and family of a person who has a developmental disability or really needs help with daily decision making, they they form a tiny nonprofit organization.
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So it's like taking a person's most trusted circle and incorporating it.
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Um, but because it becomes a tiny nonprofit, it has a singular purpose, which is to support that person with living their best life throughout their life.
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So it's a permanent structure supporting them to do this.
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It stays with them until they either pass away or you dissolve the corporation, just like any business.
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But because it's a nonprofit, it has a lot of advantages that a circle doesn't have.
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So it can be, it can receive funding, it can purchase services and supports or community classes with that funding.
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It can be the employer of record.
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So it can sign a contract, it can sign a lease, it can do all of those things that a nonprofit has, but it is hyper focused on supporting that one person with living their best life.
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So it does a couple of things.
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It's a built-in succession plan, right?
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Because it stays with that person.
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The directors might change, but there is this structure around this person forever, and there's a legal responsibility to make sure it's there because it's incorporated.
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And it um lost my train of thought.
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It also helps spread some of the responsibilities that a family has to take on all the time, all by themselves a lot of the time, right?
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So you could have a board director who likes to reconcile the budget.
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They can do that, and the parent doesn't have to.
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They can help with if they're hiring their own staff.
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Um, board directors could do that first plush of applicants, right?
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They can kind of help with that hiring process so that it's not all falling just to parents to parents.
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Okay.
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Now now are parents on the board, or how does that uh how does that work?
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Yeah, parents can be the thing about microboards, is everyone is as different as the person it's created for.
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Right.
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So I would say most start with um mom and dad for sure, parents, whatever that family looks like.
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A sibling, if there's a sibling or other siblings.
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Uh sometimes there's aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews, they're all different, but it's all people who that person knows and trusts the most.
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That that relationship is foundational.
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Okay.
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Um, and I guess an advantage just to go back to why it's an incorporated and not-for-profit structure.
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I assume that you've done a lot of work as microboards did in BC, around that being the best way to organize it.
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An advantage would be that not-for-profits have very uh established standardized rules around how they operate, around conflicts of interest, around the use of money, or it's easier to set up bank accounts that aren't connected with a single person.
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So it, like you said, it's it can be whatever uh the group wants it to be, but within an existing structure that is standardized and legal across uh across the either the province or the country where you're incorporated.
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For sure.
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Every microboard has a set of bylaws which govern how it is exactly going to operate.
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So it does make decision making very supported, right?
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Because you do have this structure to support decision making, which is outlined in your bylaws.
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Um and it it also makes it really accountable and transparent.
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So if you're looking at something like funding coming in, direct funding or passport funding, whatever the funding envelope looks like, government knows that there's a group of people who have that fiduciary responsibility to make sure that they are doing what they say they're gonna do with the money.
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So there's a built-in accountability for that as well.
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Right, right.
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Um, so that's the structure.
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How does this sort of supporting the person work?
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Or how can you can you walk through what that would be like if you're uh once once the board is established, you've got some members and people are sort of dividing up the work and perhaps hiring some people.
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What what would that uh what would that typically look like if there is such a thing as a typical uh microboard?
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Yeah, I was just gonna say there's no typical one, but supported decision is really about helping a person, it's all based on supported decision making, I should say up front, right?
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So what the person would like to do, their hopes, their dreams are always at the center of what a microboard is talking about.
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So if they say, I want to jump out of an airplane, you know, where mom and the parents like I want to go skydiving with a parachute.
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With the parachute, yeah.
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You know, parents might be, hell no, that's not gonna happen.
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But someone else around that microboard table might say, Hey, I've done it.
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And you know, you don't jump by yourself, you jump, there's a tandem jump where you're strapped to someone, or we can go to this place and you can get the experience of it to see if you really want to jump out of an airplane.
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Like it's really helping um helping prevent or present options, helping with ideas, helping to achieve goals that a person might want to live.
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So a real example, not the parachute one I like to use all the time, is you know, there was a microboard who recently, a few months ago, they had a meeting and the person indicated that they wanted to work in a bookshop.
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That's kind of a career goal that they could they had.
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And someone on the microboard said, Hey, you know what?
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I know someone who's running an indigo not far from where you live.
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So why don't I talk to them and see if they'd be open to having you in for an interview?
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And sure enough, they went in for an interview and got hired, right?
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So it turned into a job opportunity through connections on their microboard, right?
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Which also takes stress off the system, if you're gonna put it that way.
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Yeah, um, but it's really helping and understanding what a person wants in their life, where they want to live, what they want to do, and how that's gonna be supported.
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So the microboard's more in a governance role.
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It's not necessarily doing that day-to-day support, but it's there as a how's the plan going, what's next in the plan, what is the plan for when parents are no longer involved, and making sure that everything is in place to support it.
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Okay.
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And and if there are direct support professionals hired to work with an individual or provide uh provide support there, how does that how how would that work in the context of sort of the hiring and the onboarding, like the supervision and then like the practical stuff stuff of scheduling shifts and evaluating staff?
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What what what what have you seen um in those scenarios?
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So again, each one's a little bit different.
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So some microboards um the they do work for the microboard.
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The microboard is the one that pays them, the microboard is the one that hires them.
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Uh, there's in one sorry, let me uh just interact just so as you say that do the microboards have names?
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Do they are they called, are they a numbered?
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Each one is named.
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Yeah, they have their own sort of John's microboard or John, okay.
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Yep.
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Okay, got it.
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Sorry.
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I interrupted that.
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Everyone is unique and they have to go through a name search to make sure nobody else has it, but they're they're name just like any corporation.
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So I'm just not using the names.
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Um yeah, no, of course not.
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And okay, so so people sorry, I I I interrupted and probably got you off your train of thought.
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But uh, so the microboard, they work directly for the the microboard, and then there's uh each one is arranged differently.
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But what what are what do you see that's sort of uh typical or common around uh working with direct support professionals and staff?
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What's common is there's usually someone on the microboard, sometimes it is the parent because they're there 24-7 at this point, who does the scheduling, who will do a lot of the training, who'll do a lot of the onboarding.
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But anyone on the microboard can pay them.
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Um, the staff member could be invited to come to a meeting to give a report or an update.
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They're not a member of the microboard and they wouldn't have any um say, but they're certainly welcome to come and offer that information.
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But it's some they're all just so different.
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There's a couple where they they have the funds to be able to hire someone to coordinate the staff for them, so that's kind of it's one step removed.
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Right.
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And but typically the microboard would be the employer and various people on the microboard would would pick up those pieces.
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But I would say in the beginning, it's generally the the parents who are doing a lot of that training, the day-to-day kind of operations and stuff.
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So the the in in Ontario, do we have a legal framework, a funding framework for microboards yet, or is that what the pilots that you've been involved with are sorting out?
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And we can get to the pilots in a in a sec.
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Or is there a structure yet in Ontario?
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Or um, or if there isn't, maybe you can talk about how that sort of works uh in BC.
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So in BC, I'll start with them first.
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It is a funded option.
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So if you have a a child with a developmental disability and you want a microboard and you get your direct funding package, you have that option of saying, I want to flow it through an agency, I want to manage it myself, or I want a microboard.
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And if you say microboard, you get connected to Vela and they help you set it up and get it up and running.
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Um so, and then Vela is there to provide more learning, training, troubleshooting, but they're kind they kind of step into the background.
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So that is what we're trying to bring here, right?
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Right.
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So in BC, a microboard is a a recognized entity because it it can receive funding directly from CLBC, which is the funding entity in Alberta in BC.
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Here we're not quite there yet.
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So here, if you you can certainly have a microboard, and the ministry does recognize them, um for sure.
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And they are still preferring that money flow through an agency at this point, but there's technically no reason for that to have to happen because it is an incorporated right nonprofit with insurance and fiduciary responsibility, right?
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Right.
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They totally recognize it.
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They're coming, but they're not quite there yet.
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But they tend to be a different base to deal with.
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Um, so we're trying, we are trying to bring that here.
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So I'll talk about the adult pilot, I guess.
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Yeah.
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Does it make sense?
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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So about a year and a half ago, we got money from the ministry to run a pilot for families who had adult children and or brothers and sisters, siblings who um wanted a microboard.
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So we created it's it's a really thorough program where we walk families and the microboard members, it's not just for families, so it was for all the microboard members as well, to walk through it with everyone, including the person if they chose, um, on what it takes to operate a microboard.
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So we would start with like supported decision making, building relationships, succession planning, which is a big piece of it, kind of the softer stuff.
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And then the second half, we get into governance, being the employer of record, financial considerations, because you do have to file with the CRA because you are a nonprofit.
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Um, and um, and your bylaws.
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And while you're going through this, it's a self-paced program online, and we have group sessions as well as one-to-one support.
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Each group, each family is in completing their incorporation.
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So at the end of it, they meet with our lawyer and they become incorporated, and then we help them for the first few months get their feet off the ground while they're doing their bylaws, while they're all finding their sink as a microboard.
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So that was um a pilot that was free for families, all of that, except for$220, which covers their actual incorporation fee and their name search for their microboard.
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Oh, right, okay.
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So they were getting 75 hours of support and all of these resources that they still have access to.
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Like our first group of families are still accessing the resources and the videos that that they um that they had in group in their actual incorporation cohort.
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So um we're hoping government is going to embed that option here for families because it makes it accessible.
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There isn't an income barrier, and you're you're really building out the knowledge by having all of the microboard members involved as well.
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Right.
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So this could be if you're going to the DSO and you're and they they they track um waiting lists around different service streams.
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It could be congregate living, it could be supported independent living, it could be uh community participation supports.
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And you the in a in a future world, you'd love to see microboards or or individualized funding with a micro board or however that's set up as one of the options anybody anybody could choose.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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And that's yeah.
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Okay.
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And that's how they sort of structure it in in BC.
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And how long have they been doing it in uh in BC?
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Do you know?
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:21.359
30 years.
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:22.000
Okay.
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:28.000
And they've got about 1,500 people boards that are set up uh right now.
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:33.519
So it's a popular option and it's proven over decades.
00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:36.559
Um it it doesn't seem to be for everybody.
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:52.640
So what are the what are some if to what what's or what are things is if people are considering this, what are s what what what what have you seen as something that makes it work for people uh or things that can get in the way of people saying, Yeah, maybe this isn't this isn't for us or for me?
00:21:53.039 --> 00:22:04.799
What we hear most from families when they're interested in a microboard is um they Want their family member wants a life in the community.
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:05.359
Right.
00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:05.759
Right.
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:07.680
They want a life with their friends and their family.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.720
And that's what they've experienced growing up.
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:15.200
So they aren't looking for like traditional programs and services.
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:16.960
So that is one thing.
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:23.920
The other thing families are coming to us for is um security about the future.
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:24.559
Right.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:36.160
They see this as a real succession plan, as a group who are going to who are committed to supporting their family member when they're no longer around.
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:40.799
Another reason is that next generation.
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:42.559
Right.
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:56.640
Who are going to inherit the I don't want to say responsibility, but that's what it is, of um being the primary support for their sibling.
00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:08.480
So they see a microboard as a way of their other child being close to their siblings' care, but not having to inherit all of the responsibility of that.
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:10.079
And I'll give you an example.
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:35.519
I had a mom call me a couple of months ago, and she has a 20-year-old son who is living with autism, and she has a 16-year-old daughter, and she had been hearing about microboards, and um she said she wants to move forward with it because her 16-year-old was coming home and crying and saying, Am I gonna get to go to university like my friends?
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:37.839
Am I ever gonna let get to leave home?
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:46.319
And was so anxious about what her life is gonna look like because all she saw was she was going to have to step into her mother's role.
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:52.960
And when she told her daughter about the microboard, she's like, You you have to do this and you have to do it for me.
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:53.440
Right.
00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:54.400
Oh wow.
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:55.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:59.119
It was a really profound conversation.
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:07.599
Yeah, no, it and it's and it's interesting because the there's tens of thousands of people waiting for places to live in Ontario.
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:18.640
Um, and so many parents are aging with you know, siblings that um of individuals with a disability, and there's just no clear path for the future.
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:21.759
You're waiting for a crisis, you don't know what's coming.
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:29.279
Like I just microboards or other ways of supporting, it's that sort of confidence in the in the future and knowing what's going to come.
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:44.799
Like we in this province, with all that we have, should be able to do better for people to give them some vision of what uh what comes and what happens when they're no longer able to provide the support that they've often been providing for decades, or they're no longer around to do so.
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:51.200
So um uh that's uh that's a great example of how this can make a make a difference.
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:57.359
So that the daughter then has a group of people around her that she will be able to rely on uh going forward.
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:04.160
Yeah, to help and mentor her, and you know, it means that she had she has a bit more balance in her life too, right?
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:04.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:05.839
So yeah, yeah.
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:07.839
And just to relieve some of that stress.
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:08.480
For sure.
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:10.000
For sure.
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:14.559
And it can also have an impact on the wait list, right?
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:20.480
Like just like that example with someone getting a job through a microboard member at Indigo, right?
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:33.519
There's there's community connections and connections that people have that can help, you know, a person achieve some of their life goals without having to sit and wait, right?
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:42.000
So it can really make a dent and get people some at least some support now instead of just languishing on a wait list, right?
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:46.319
So or not having to be part of a system that then has to have a sort of response there.
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:54.400
People just being in their communities, knowing their neighbors, knowing the people they're connected with, and uh and taking advantage of those natural connections that kind of that come.
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:57.440
And this next generation kind of wants that, right?
00:25:57.680 --> 00:25:58.319
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:25:58.400 --> 00:25:58.799
Yeah.
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:00.880
Well, and it's not just that generation, right?
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:05.279
It's it's it's sort of throughout the ages, people are sure and the age ranges.
00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:10.319
People are like, I don't, you know, I want to live my life the way I wanna, uh the way I want to live it.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:11.279
For sure.
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:25.200
Have you so that point when um the say the parents of an individual with individual with a disability uh are no longer around or can no longer be or let's say somebody has passed away, are there examples or have you seen that?
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:28.559
Like, do the microboards what's that experience like?
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:32.160
Do they tend to continue and thrive and carry on?
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:36.480
Or what what what's what what are some examples of of how that goes?
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:40.400
It's much um microboards are much newer here.
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:40.880
Right.
00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:51.440
So what we're seeing is some parents, like there's a person who just incorporated as part of our pilot, and she would is like, I'm not gonna chair this.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:55.839
I am not gonna like I'm I'm gonna be a member, but I'm gonna sit back.
00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:05.839
And she's already handed the reins over to that next generation, which is her nieces and nephews and and um other family members.
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:12.960
But um, and we're we're starting to see that a little bit where some parents are starting to, I'm not gonna be chair anymore.
00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:19.680
I'm gonna step back, or I'm gonna let someone else manage all of the staff and I'm not gonna be part of that anymore.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:26.960
BC, because they've been around, they're starting to see that generational shift happen now.
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:43.119
And um, for some, it's been very smooth because there's been a lot of preparation, and you know, just like in any anything, yeah, some not as smooth, but uh they're starting to face that or to experience that now.
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:43.599
Okay.
00:27:44.480 --> 00:28:01.599
Um just a last couple of minutes here, as people learn more about microboards, um, and uh um as we're looking at uh uh some system changes coming with journey to belonging in the next number of years.
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:07.039
Yeah, what can people do to a couple of things, maybe support microboards or learn more?
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:10.400
If families are interested, uh what should they do?
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:15.039
Where should they turn to for more information and or to offer support?
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:18.640
Well, lots of things.
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:24.559
We are always um offering or doing workshops or talking to family groups or agencies.
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:32.960
So if anybody is interested, they can just send me an email, Karen at microboardsontario.com, and we can uh get that set up.
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:40.400
We are in the process of becoming a charity, so um we'll take donations pretty soon, which will be.
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:42.319
Yeah, which is pretty great.
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:45.759
Uh, we also have a children's pilot that just started.
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:46.160
Okay.
00:28:46.400 --> 00:29:04.640
So the adult one was um very successful, and there's been a lot of studies, especially in Australia, where uh microboards are also really popular on the advantages of starting earlier and having a microboard for kids who are under 18.
00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:07.759
So the ministry's just given us some money.
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:10.640
We just launched it in August, our children's pilot.
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:27.599
So if you if someone does have a family member who's either under 18 or under 21 and still in school, they could be eligible for this pilot as well, um, which our next cohort will probably be in January.
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:28.160
Okay.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:31.680
So they should get in touch if they want to be part of that.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:34.319
And it it's running just like our adult one.
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:38.240
It's a$220 fee, and the rest of it is all covered.
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:45.759
And you you get some real um subject matter experts talking about things like bylaws and supported decision making.
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:47.839
So it's a really valuable program.
00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:53.440
And um yeah, do more stuff like this so people hear more about it.
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:54.720
Yeah, good, good.
00:29:55.039 --> 00:30:08.720
Um, I it's so good to see our our ministry, uh, children, community and social services, funding some of these things to see how they work uh and see how they're received and uh working out some of the kinks.
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:12.960
I mean, I think the idea of a pilot is to test something and to prove the concept.
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:28.079
So um congratulations that you were able to uh have the ministry support that and that the pilot went well and to the point where they want to expand it to another uh group that probably wasn't original, well, it wasn't originally in this in in the scope, but it's uh it's coming there.
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:30.079
That's um uh that's great.
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:35.279
I love seeing so many options out there and hearing that there's more things coming.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:37.039
That's uh that's fantastic.
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:38.880
Yeah, no, we're pretty excited.
00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:46.240
We're hoping that uh we're actually hoping it becomes a permanent option for families just so that they can get some planning in place, you know.
00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:46.640
Yeah.
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:52.000
Well, BC is one of those places many of us often look to and go, man, they figured some things out there.
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:56.000
It would be good to bring the good things, uh, the good things here.
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:58.799
So it sounds like microboards is definitely one of them.
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:00.319
We're hoping, yeah.
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:01.440
Looks like it.
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:02.480
Good, good.
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:03.359
Well, thanks, Karen.
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.480
Glad you glad you came back from Calgary and took took on this project.
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:12.400
Uh great to have this as part of our part of the uh of options that are available for people.
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:13.440
Great work.
00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:14.160
Awesome.
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:14.640
Thank you.
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:17.440
Thanks for inviting me, and it's great always to connect.
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:18.799
Good, good to see you.
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:19.839
Thanks.
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:22.079
Thank you for listening, watching, and sharing.
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.880
We release a new episode of Community Chats on the 15th and the 30th of each month.
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:29.920
So don't forget to subscribe to stay up to date.
00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:07.280
Hello and welcome to Community Chats.
00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:10.960
I'm Brad Saunders, the CEO of Community Living Toronto.
00:00:11.119 --> 00:00:15.279
My guest today is Karen Bell, the Executive Director of Micro Boards Ontario.
00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:24.719
Karen has a long background in developmental services, and her work now is focused on helping people with disabilities and their families build microboards.
00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:30.320
For anyone who hasn't come across this idea, it's new to Ontario in the last number of years.
00:00:30.559 --> 00:00:35.280
A microboard is a small group of people who commit to supporting one person.
00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:38.960
It usually includes family and friends and others.
00:00:39.200 --> 00:00:43.920
They form a small not-for-profit that is really focused on one person.
00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:53.840
The idea being that that person stays at the center of decisions about their own life, including where they live, who supports them, and what they want for their future.
00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:57.200
It really puts self-determined into practice.
00:00:57.520 --> 00:01:02.880
Belonging begins with listening, so grab a tea or a coffee and enjoy the conversation.
00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:06.400
Karen Bell, thanks for joining us today.
00:01:06.799 --> 00:01:07.359
Thank you.
00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:08.560
Nice to be here.
00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:10.000
Good to see you.
00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:14.799
Uh, we're recording this on uh National Day of Truth and Reconciliation.
00:01:14.879 --> 00:01:17.760
So I am wearing an orange uh shirt.
00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:25.359
Um uh one because I'm kind of cold, but also because this is a great, a great sweatshirt and I want to recognize and honor that day.
00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:28.079
I think it's important that we all take time to do so.
00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:31.760
Um a little plug, a little plug for the shirt here.
00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:50.640
Um uh our office on 20 Spadina at 20 Spadina is uh a couple of doors up from uh the Native Canadian Center, who have been uh great neighbors and they have a gift shop that uh is we'll put a link to in the show notes.
00:01:50.799 --> 00:02:02.480
They sell great wearable stuff, they have artwork, they have uh a number of things that it's worth going in and browsing, but they also have things online that you can buy as well.
00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:07.599
So I would encourage people to uh to check them out if you're in the neighborhood or look them up online.
00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:10.400
Awesome.
00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:11.280
All right.
00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:13.520
Um again, thanks for joining us.
00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:15.840
You're uh Karen, we've known each other a long time.
00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:25.439
Hello, why don't we start with a a little bit about um how you got involved in uh developmental services and working in the disability community?
00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:32.400
Um what what what what brought you here and how long you've sort of been been hanging around?
00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:36.159
So it was not a planned career.
00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:45.039
Um I happened to be an arts graduate from U of T who uh needed a job when there were very few arts jobs.
00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:54.560
So I got hired by Community Living Toronto pretty much shortly after I was done university and said I would give it a year.
00:02:55.360 --> 00:03:01.280
And uh fell in love with the sector, like started meeting people.
00:03:01.439 --> 00:03:24.240
I started teaching art classes as a volunteer in the off hours, and it just became a really amazing place to work where you got to to be around so many different people and your work was it meant something, you know, and uh and stayed.
00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:47.680
And and it's been I was in it for 20 some odd years at Community Living Toronto and left for a brief sojourn to to uh Calgary and then came home and really missed the sector, you know, had a lot of friends who worked and were supported by the sector and really just um wanted to get back into it.
00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:51.759
So a was not living in Toronto anymore, as you know.
00:03:52.080 --> 00:04:07.599
And uh after doing some consulting work, this opportunity to work with um two people I greatly admired at Microboards Ontario, offered me a job, and here we are, four years later.
00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:08.800
Excellent.
00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:11.199
Now, Calgary, beautiful place.
00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:13.520
Um, I actually visited you when you were out there.
00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:18.639
We were on a trip, and I I I had not taken the time to tour that province until then.
00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:19.680
It's gorgeous.
00:04:19.759 --> 00:04:22.959
Uh it's a beautiful place, beautiful place.
00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:24.079
Um, but welcome back.
00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:25.920
Glad you came, glad you came back.
00:04:26.720 --> 00:04:35.120
Um and at Community Learning Toronto you held a number of different roles, including you did a lot with working with government and you did a lot of communications.
00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:39.519
Um and this role that you're in now leading an organization.
00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:45.920
Uh you talked about a couple of people that inspired you and and and created the opportunity.
00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:51.360
Do you want to drop some names and say who uh who brought you into this?
00:04:52.079 --> 00:04:52.560
I will.
00:04:52.800 --> 00:05:12.480
To micropresentariat was Xavier Nordemir, who is a community uh executive director at Community Living Windsor, who was always doing really innovative things, especially around you know, housing, individualized funding, and was always out there on the cusp and just a lovely human being, as you know.
00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:17.600
And then the other one who I know has been on the podcast is Brendan Poorn.
00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:18.399
Oh, yeah.
00:05:18.720 --> 00:05:33.439
Again, someone who is changing the sector through his values and through um what he has I I think brought to the sector in a in a lens that we are now looking at things through.
00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:37.920
And so could not say no to the opportunity to work for them.
00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:39.439
They're they're on the board.
00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:42.720
So Brendan's not on the board, but yeah.
00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:43.600
Yeah, yeah.
00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:47.120
Still, still very involved, still very involved and supportive, though.
00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:58.000
The I I first heard about microboards um when I was uh visiting some organizations in British Columbia uh and got to meet, and I is it is it Vela or Vatha?
00:05:58.639 --> 00:05:59.680
Vela Canada, yeah.
00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:09.360
Vela Canada there, and they have a couple of thousand or so uh micro boards, 1,500 that have been set up and operating for many uh many years.
00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:10.720
So it's a thriving model.
00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:19.600
I was really thrilled to hear that it was coming to Ontario, and we are going to try to make that part of our sector and make it an option uh for people.
00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:24.480
Also, I thought it really aligned with what's happening uh potentially with journey to belonging.
00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:26.800
So really glad that that that's here.
00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:29.519
Um so microboards.
00:06:29.759 --> 00:06:31.120
What is a microboard?
00:06:31.199 --> 00:06:33.519
How does how does this how does this work?
00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:50.000
So a microboard, to put it very plainly, is when friends and family of a person who has a developmental disability or really needs help with daily decision making, they they form a tiny nonprofit organization.
00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:54.959
So it's like taking a person's most trusted circle and incorporating it.
00:06:55.040 --> 00:07:06.000
Um, but because it becomes a tiny nonprofit, it has a singular purpose, which is to support that person with living their best life throughout their life.
00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:10.079
So it's a permanent structure supporting them to do this.
00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:16.240
It stays with them until they either pass away or you dissolve the corporation, just like any business.
00:07:16.560 --> 00:07:22.560
But because it's a nonprofit, it has a lot of advantages that a circle doesn't have.
00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:33.519
So it can be, it can receive funding, it can purchase services and supports or community classes with that funding.
00:07:33.759 --> 00:07:36.000
It can be the employer of record.
00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:48.639
So it can sign a contract, it can sign a lease, it can do all of those things that a nonprofit has, but it is hyper focused on supporting that one person with living their best life.
00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:50.879
So it does a couple of things.
00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:53.439
It's a built-in succession plan, right?
00:07:53.519 --> 00:07:54.959
Because it stays with that person.
00:07:55.120 --> 00:08:05.040
The directors might change, but there is this structure around this person forever, and there's a legal responsibility to make sure it's there because it's incorporated.
00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:09.360
And it um lost my train of thought.
00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:19.600
It also helps spread some of the responsibilities that a family has to take on all the time, all by themselves a lot of the time, right?
00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:25.040
So you could have a board director who likes to reconcile the budget.
00:08:25.199 --> 00:08:27.360
They can do that, and the parent doesn't have to.
00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:30.480
They can help with if they're hiring their own staff.
00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:35.039
Um, board directors could do that first plush of applicants, right?
00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:41.679
They can kind of help with that hiring process so that it's not all falling just to parents to parents.
00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:42.720
Okay.
00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:47.840
Now now are parents on the board, or how does that uh how does that work?
00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:54.399
Yeah, parents can be the thing about microboards, is everyone is as different as the person it's created for.
00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:54.879
Right.
00:08:55.200 --> 00:09:03.440
So I would say most start with um mom and dad for sure, parents, whatever that family looks like.
00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:07.600
A sibling, if there's a sibling or other siblings.
00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:19.759
Uh sometimes there's aunts, uncles, cousins, nieces, nephews, they're all different, but it's all people who that person knows and trusts the most.
00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:22.159
That that relationship is foundational.
00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:22.960
Okay.
00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:30.720
Um, and I guess an advantage just to go back to why it's an incorporated and not-for-profit structure.
00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:36.480
I assume that you've done a lot of work as microboards did in BC, around that being the best way to organize it.
00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:50.639
An advantage would be that not-for-profits have very uh established standardized rules around how they operate, around conflicts of interest, around the use of money, or it's easier to set up bank accounts that aren't connected with a single person.
00:09:50.799 --> 00:10:03.440
So it, like you said, it's it can be whatever uh the group wants it to be, but within an existing structure that is standardized and legal across uh across the either the province or the country where you're incorporated.
00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:04.320
For sure.
00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:10.799
Every microboard has a set of bylaws which govern how it is exactly going to operate.
00:10:11.039 --> 00:10:15.919
So it does make decision making very supported, right?
00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:21.120
Because you do have this structure to support decision making, which is outlined in your bylaws.
00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:25.840
Um and it it also makes it really accountable and transparent.
00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:42.480
So if you're looking at something like funding coming in, direct funding or passport funding, whatever the funding envelope looks like, government knows that there's a group of people who have that fiduciary responsibility to make sure that they are doing what they say they're gonna do with the money.
00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:45.759
So there's a built-in accountability for that as well.
00:10:46.159 --> 00:10:47.039
Right, right.
00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:49.600
Um, so that's the structure.
00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:52.399
How does this sort of supporting the person work?
00:10:52.480 --> 00:11:03.519
Or how can you can you walk through what that would be like if you're uh once once the board is established, you've got some members and people are sort of dividing up the work and perhaps hiring some people.
00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:09.600
What what would that uh what would that typically look like if there is such a thing as a typical uh microboard?
00:11:09.919 --> 00:11:21.600
Yeah, I was just gonna say there's no typical one, but supported decision is really about helping a person, it's all based on supported decision making, I should say up front, right?
00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:28.559
So what the person would like to do, their hopes, their dreams are always at the center of what a microboard is talking about.
00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:38.639
So if they say, I want to jump out of an airplane, you know, where mom and the parents like I want to go skydiving with a parachute.
00:11:38.879 --> 00:11:39.679
With the parachute, yeah.
00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:45.759
You know, parents might be, hell no, that's not gonna happen.
00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:51.679
But someone else around that microboard table might say, Hey, I've done it.
00:11:51.840 --> 00:12:02.639
And you know, you don't jump by yourself, you jump, there's a tandem jump where you're strapped to someone, or we can go to this place and you can get the experience of it to see if you really want to jump out of an airplane.
00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:15.679
Like it's really helping um helping prevent or present options, helping with ideas, helping to achieve goals that a person might want to live.
00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:30.080
So a real example, not the parachute one I like to use all the time, is you know, there was a microboard who recently, a few months ago, they had a meeting and the person indicated that they wanted to work in a bookshop.
00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:33.120
That's kind of a career goal that they could they had.
00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:36.399
And someone on the microboard said, Hey, you know what?
00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:41.039
I know someone who's running an indigo not far from where you live.
00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:46.000
So why don't I talk to them and see if they'd be open to having you in for an interview?
00:12:46.240 --> 00:12:49.200
And sure enough, they went in for an interview and got hired, right?
00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:55.120
So it turned into a job opportunity through connections on their microboard, right?
00:12:55.440 --> 00:13:00.559
Which also takes stress off the system, if you're gonna put it that way.
00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:11.200
Yeah, um, but it's really helping and understanding what a person wants in their life, where they want to live, what they want to do, and how that's gonna be supported.
00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:13.759
So the microboard's more in a governance role.
00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:29.039
It's not necessarily doing that day-to-day support, but it's there as a how's the plan going, what's next in the plan, what is the plan for when parents are no longer involved, and making sure that everything is in place to support it.
00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:29.679
Okay.
00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:48.559
And and if there are direct support professionals hired to work with an individual or provide uh provide support there, how does that how how would that work in the context of sort of the hiring and the onboarding, like the supervision and then like the practical stuff stuff of scheduling shifts and evaluating staff?
00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:53.360
What what what what have you seen um in those scenarios?
00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:56.399
So again, each one's a little bit different.
00:13:56.720 --> 00:14:03.759
So some microboards um the they do work for the microboard.
00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:07.919
The microboard is the one that pays them, the microboard is the one that hires them.
00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:13.519
Uh, there's in one sorry, let me uh just interact just so as you say that do the microboards have names?
00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:15.360
Do they are they called, are they a numbered?
00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:17.039
Each one is named.
00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:21.120
Yeah, they have their own sort of John's microboard or John, okay.
00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:21.679
Yep.
00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:22.879
Okay, got it.
00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:23.200
Sorry.
00:14:23.360 --> 00:14:23.919
I interrupted that.
00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:30.960
Everyone is unique and they have to go through a name search to make sure nobody else has it, but they're they're name just like any corporation.
00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:33.600
So I'm just not using the names.
00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:35.120
Um yeah, no, of course not.
00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:39.360
And okay, so so people sorry, I I I interrupted and probably got you off your train of thought.
00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:45.919
But uh, so the microboard, they work directly for the the microboard, and then there's uh each one is arranged differently.
00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:52.960
But what what are what do you see that's sort of uh typical or common around uh working with direct support professionals and staff?
00:14:53.679 --> 00:15:07.840
What's common is there's usually someone on the microboard, sometimes it is the parent because they're there 24-7 at this point, who does the scheduling, who will do a lot of the training, who'll do a lot of the onboarding.
00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:11.600
But anyone on the microboard can pay them.
00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:18.240
Um, the staff member could be invited to come to a meeting to give a report or an update.
00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:26.720
They're not a member of the microboard and they wouldn't have any um say, but they're certainly welcome to come and offer that information.
00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:32.320
But it's some they're all just so different.
00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:42.879
There's a couple where they they have the funds to be able to hire someone to coordinate the staff for them, so that's kind of it's one step removed.
00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:43.440
Right.
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:53.519
And but typically the microboard would be the employer and various people on the microboard would would pick up those pieces.
00:15:53.679 --> 00:16:03.519
But I would say in the beginning, it's generally the the parents who are doing a lot of that training, the day-to-day kind of operations and stuff.
00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:16.799
So the the in in Ontario, do we have a legal framework, a funding framework for microboards yet, or is that what the pilots that you've been involved with are sorting out?
00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:18.960
And we can get to the pilots in a in a sec.
00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:23.120
Or is there a structure yet in Ontario?
00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:29.360
Or um, or if there isn't, maybe you can talk about how that sort of works uh in BC.
00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:32.960
So in BC, I'll start with them first.
00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:34.799
It is a funded option.
00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:50.240
So if you have a a child with a developmental disability and you want a microboard and you get your direct funding package, you have that option of saying, I want to flow it through an agency, I want to manage it myself, or I want a microboard.
00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:56.399
And if you say microboard, you get connected to Vela and they help you set it up and get it up and running.
00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:07.279
Um so, and then Vela is there to provide more learning, training, troubleshooting, but they're kind they kind of step into the background.
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:10.559
So that is what we're trying to bring here, right?
00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:10.960
Right.
00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:24.559
So in BC, a microboard is a a recognized entity because it it can receive funding directly from CLBC, which is the funding entity in Alberta in BC.
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:27.920
Here we're not quite there yet.
00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:37.279
So here, if you you can certainly have a microboard, and the ministry does recognize them, um for sure.
00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:54.799
And they are still preferring that money flow through an agency at this point, but there's technically no reason for that to have to happen because it is an incorporated right nonprofit with insurance and fiduciary responsibility, right?
00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:55.200
Right.
00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:57.279
They totally recognize it.
00:18:01.279 --> 00:18:03.920
They're coming, but they're not quite there yet.
00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:09.920
But they tend to be a different base to deal with.
00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:14.960
Um, so we're trying, we are trying to bring that here.
00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:17.920
So I'll talk about the adult pilot, I guess.
00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:18.240
Yeah.
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:19.039
Does it make sense?
00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:19.680
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:19.920
Yeah.
00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:36.079
So about a year and a half ago, we got money from the ministry to run a pilot for families who had adult children and or brothers and sisters, siblings who um wanted a microboard.
00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:55.839
So we created it's it's a really thorough program where we walk families and the microboard members, it's not just for families, so it was for all the microboard members as well, to walk through it with everyone, including the person if they chose, um, on what it takes to operate a microboard.
00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:04.079
So we would start with like supported decision making, building relationships, succession planning, which is a big piece of it, kind of the softer stuff.
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:13.039
And then the second half, we get into governance, being the employer of record, financial considerations, because you do have to file with the CRA because you are a nonprofit.
00:19:13.279 --> 00:19:16.240
Um, and um, and your bylaws.
00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:25.519
And while you're going through this, it's a self-paced program online, and we have group sessions as well as one-to-one support.
00:19:25.759 --> 00:19:30.000
Each group, each family is in completing their incorporation.
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:45.279
So at the end of it, they meet with our lawyer and they become incorporated, and then we help them for the first few months get their feet off the ground while they're doing their bylaws, while they're all finding their sink as a microboard.
00:19:46.240 --> 00:20:00.400
So that was um a pilot that was free for families, all of that, except for$220, which covers their actual incorporation fee and their name search for their microboard.
00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:01.119
Oh, right, okay.
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:08.799
So they were getting 75 hours of support and all of these resources that they still have access to.
00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:21.279
Like our first group of families are still accessing the resources and the videos that that they um that they had in group in their actual incorporation cohort.
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:33.039
So um we're hoping government is going to embed that option here for families because it makes it accessible.
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:41.359
There isn't an income barrier, and you're you're really building out the knowledge by having all of the microboard members involved as well.
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:42.000
Right.
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:51.599
So this could be if you're going to the DSO and you're and they they they track um waiting lists around different service streams.
00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:58.240
It could be congregate living, it could be supported independent living, it could be uh community participation supports.
00:20:58.400 --> 00:21:09.759
And you the in a in a future world, you'd love to see microboards or or individualized funding with a micro board or however that's set up as one of the options anybody anybody could choose.
00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:10.559
Yeah.
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:11.039
Yeah.
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:12.720
And that's yeah.
00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:13.440
Okay.
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:16.400
And that's how they sort of structure it in in BC.
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:19.599
And how long have they been doing it in uh in BC?
00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:20.079
Do you know?
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:21.359
30 years.
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:22.000
Okay.
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:28.000
And they've got about 1,500 people boards that are set up uh right now.
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:33.519
So it's a popular option and it's proven over decades.
00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:36.559
Um it it doesn't seem to be for everybody.
00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:52.640
So what are the what are some if to what what's or what are things is if people are considering this, what are s what what what what have you seen as something that makes it work for people uh or things that can get in the way of people saying, Yeah, maybe this isn't this isn't for us or for me?
00:21:53.039 --> 00:22:04.799
What we hear most from families when they're interested in a microboard is um they Want their family member wants a life in the community.
00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:05.359
Right.
00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:05.759
Right.
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:07.680
They want a life with their friends and their family.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:10.720
And that's what they've experienced growing up.
00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:15.200
So they aren't looking for like traditional programs and services.
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:16.960
So that is one thing.
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:23.920
The other thing families are coming to us for is um security about the future.
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:24.559
Right.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:36.160
They see this as a real succession plan, as a group who are going to who are committed to supporting their family member when they're no longer around.
00:22:37.680 --> 00:22:40.799
Another reason is that next generation.
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:42.559
Right.
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:56.640
Who are going to inherit the I don't want to say responsibility, but that's what it is, of um being the primary support for their sibling.
00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:08.480
So they see a microboard as a way of their other child being close to their siblings' care, but not having to inherit all of the responsibility of that.
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:10.079
And I'll give you an example.
00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:35.519
I had a mom call me a couple of months ago, and she has a 20-year-old son who is living with autism, and she has a 16-year-old daughter, and she had been hearing about microboards, and um she said she wants to move forward with it because her 16-year-old was coming home and crying and saying, Am I gonna get to go to university like my friends?
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:37.839
Am I ever gonna let get to leave home?
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:46.319
And was so anxious about what her life is gonna look like because all she saw was she was going to have to step into her mother's role.
00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:52.960
And when she told her daughter about the microboard, she's like, You you have to do this and you have to do it for me.
00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:53.440
Right.
00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:54.400
Oh wow.
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:55.599
Yeah, yeah.
00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:59.119
It was a really profound conversation.
00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:07.599
Yeah, no, it and it's and it's interesting because the there's tens of thousands of people waiting for places to live in Ontario.
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:18.640
Um, and so many parents are aging with you know, siblings that um of individuals with a disability, and there's just no clear path for the future.
00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:21.759
You're waiting for a crisis, you don't know what's coming.
00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:29.279
Like I just microboards or other ways of supporting, it's that sort of confidence in the in the future and knowing what's going to come.
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:44.799
Like we in this province, with all that we have, should be able to do better for people to give them some vision of what uh what comes and what happens when they're no longer able to provide the support that they've often been providing for decades, or they're no longer around to do so.
00:24:45.039 --> 00:24:51.200
So um uh that's uh that's a great example of how this can make a make a difference.
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:57.359
So that the daughter then has a group of people around her that she will be able to rely on uh going forward.
00:24:57.680 --> 00:25:04.160
Yeah, to help and mentor her, and you know, it means that she had she has a bit more balance in her life too, right?
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:04.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:05.839
So yeah, yeah.
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:07.839
And just to relieve some of that stress.
00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:08.480
For sure.
00:25:09.519 --> 00:25:10.000
For sure.
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:14.559
And it can also have an impact on the wait list, right?
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:20.480
Like just like that example with someone getting a job through a microboard member at Indigo, right?
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:33.519
There's there's community connections and connections that people have that can help, you know, a person achieve some of their life goals without having to sit and wait, right?
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:42.000
So it can really make a dent and get people some at least some support now instead of just languishing on a wait list, right?
00:25:42.079 --> 00:25:46.319
So or not having to be part of a system that then has to have a sort of response there.
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:54.400
People just being in their communities, knowing their neighbors, knowing the people they're connected with, and uh and taking advantage of those natural connections that kind of that come.
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:57.440
And this next generation kind of wants that, right?
00:25:57.680 --> 00:25:58.319
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:25:58.400 --> 00:25:58.799
Yeah.
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:00.880
Well, and it's not just that generation, right?
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:05.279
It's it's it's sort of throughout the ages, people are sure and the age ranges.
00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:10.319
People are like, I don't, you know, I want to live my life the way I wanna, uh the way I want to live it.
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:11.279
For sure.
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:25.200
Have you so that point when um the say the parents of an individual with individual with a disability uh are no longer around or can no longer be or let's say somebody has passed away, are there examples or have you seen that?
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:28.559
Like, do the microboards what's that experience like?
00:26:28.720 --> 00:26:32.160
Do they tend to continue and thrive and carry on?
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:36.480
Or what what what's what what are some examples of of how that goes?
00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:40.400
It's much um microboards are much newer here.
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:40.880
Right.
00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:51.440
So what we're seeing is some parents, like there's a person who just incorporated as part of our pilot, and she would is like, I'm not gonna chair this.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:55.839
I am not gonna like I'm I'm gonna be a member, but I'm gonna sit back.
00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:05.839
And she's already handed the reins over to that next generation, which is her nieces and nephews and and um other family members.
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:12.960
But um, and we're we're starting to see that a little bit where some parents are starting to, I'm not gonna be chair anymore.
00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:19.680
I'm gonna step back, or I'm gonna let someone else manage all of the staff and I'm not gonna be part of that anymore.
00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:26.960
BC, because they've been around, they're starting to see that generational shift happen now.
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:43.119
And um, for some, it's been very smooth because there's been a lot of preparation, and you know, just like in any anything, yeah, some not as smooth, but uh they're starting to face that or to experience that now.
00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:43.599
Okay.
00:27:44.480 --> 00:28:01.599
Um just a last couple of minutes here, as people learn more about microboards, um, and uh um as we're looking at uh uh some system changes coming with journey to belonging in the next number of years.
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:07.039
Yeah, what can people do to a couple of things, maybe support microboards or learn more?
00:28:07.279 --> 00:28:10.400
If families are interested, uh what should they do?
00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:15.039
Where should they turn to for more information and or to offer support?
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:18.640
Well, lots of things.
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:24.559
We are always um offering or doing workshops or talking to family groups or agencies.
00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:32.960
So if anybody is interested, they can just send me an email, Karen at microboardsontario.com, and we can uh get that set up.
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:40.400
We are in the process of becoming a charity, so um we'll take donations pretty soon, which will be.
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:42.319
Yeah, which is pretty great.
00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:45.759
Uh, we also have a children's pilot that just started.
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:46.160
Okay.
00:28:46.400 --> 00:29:04.640
So the adult one was um very successful, and there's been a lot of studies, especially in Australia, where uh microboards are also really popular on the advantages of starting earlier and having a microboard for kids who are under 18.
00:29:05.200 --> 00:29:07.759
So the ministry's just given us some money.
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:10.640
We just launched it in August, our children's pilot.
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:27.599
So if you if someone does have a family member who's either under 18 or under 21 and still in school, they could be eligible for this pilot as well, um, which our next cohort will probably be in January.
00:29:27.839 --> 00:29:28.160
Okay.
00:29:28.400 --> 00:29:31.680
So they should get in touch if they want to be part of that.
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:34.319
And it it's running just like our adult one.
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:38.240
It's a$220 fee, and the rest of it is all covered.
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:45.759
And you you get some real um subject matter experts talking about things like bylaws and supported decision making.
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:47.839
So it's a really valuable program.
00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:53.440
And um yeah, do more stuff like this so people hear more about it.
00:29:53.759 --> 00:29:54.720
Yeah, good, good.
00:29:55.039 --> 00:30:08.720
Um, I it's so good to see our our ministry, uh, children, community and social services, funding some of these things to see how they work uh and see how they're received and uh working out some of the kinks.
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:12.960
I mean, I think the idea of a pilot is to test something and to prove the concept.
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:28.079
So um congratulations that you were able to uh have the ministry support that and that the pilot went well and to the point where they want to expand it to another uh group that probably wasn't original, well, it wasn't originally in this in in the scope, but it's uh it's coming there.
00:30:28.160 --> 00:30:30.079
That's um uh that's great.
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:35.279
I love seeing so many options out there and hearing that there's more things coming.
00:30:35.440 --> 00:30:37.039
That's uh that's fantastic.
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:38.880
Yeah, no, we're pretty excited.
00:30:38.960 --> 00:30:46.240
We're hoping that uh we're actually hoping it becomes a permanent option for families just so that they can get some planning in place, you know.
00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:46.640
Yeah.
00:30:47.359 --> 00:30:52.000
Well, BC is one of those places many of us often look to and go, man, they figured some things out there.
00:30:53.039 --> 00:30:56.000
It would be good to bring the good things, uh, the good things here.
00:30:56.160 --> 00:30:58.799
So it sounds like microboards is definitely one of them.
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:00.319
We're hoping, yeah.
00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:01.440
Looks like it.
00:31:01.759 --> 00:31:02.480
Good, good.
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:03.359
Well, thanks, Karen.
00:31:03.599 --> 00:31:06.480
Glad you glad you came back from Calgary and took took on this project.
00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:12.400
Uh great to have this as part of our part of the uh of options that are available for people.
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:13.440
Great work.
00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:14.160
Awesome.
00:31:14.319 --> 00:31:14.640
Thank you.
00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:17.440
Thanks for inviting me, and it's great always to connect.
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:18.799
Good, good to see you.
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:19.839
Thanks.
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:22.079
Thank you for listening, watching, and sharing.
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.880
We release a new episode of Community Chats on the 15th and the 30th of each month.
00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:29.920
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