MENGENAI EPISOD INI
In this episode of Chasing Financial Equality, host Kane Jackson speaks with Aubrey Blanche-Sarellano, founder and CEO of MathPath and Vice President of Equitable Operations at Culture Amp. Known for her systems-level thinking and willingness to speak candidly about difficult topics, Aubrey shares her evidence-based approach to creating more equitable workplaces through intentional design rather than checkbox diversity initiatives.
In a time when diversity and inclusion policies face increasing political attacks, Aubrey offers a refreshing perspective that focuses on fairness, merit, and efficiency rather than getting caught up in terminology. She explains how her personal journey—from being adopted at age three to navigating elite academic institutions and corporate settings—shaped her understanding of privilege and opportunity. With remarkable openness, she discusses her experiences with sexual assault and being diagnosed with bipolar disorder, and how sharing these stories has helped both her healing and created space for others facing similar challenges.
The conversation explores how Aubrey ended "culture fit" hiring at Atlassian, replacing it with values-based interviews that eliminated unconscious bias, and her work at Culture Amp designing systems that benefit everyone by focusing on those with specific needs. Throughout the discussion, Aubrey emphasises the power of micro-behaviours in creating cultural change, the importance of imagination in systems redesign, and why focusing on those who don't care about equity is a waste of precious energy that could be used to create real impact.
Key Themes & Timestamps 1. Defining True DEI Work (05:29 - 06:53)Aubrey challenges misconceptions about diversity initiatives, explaining that they're fundamentally about hiring the best people by eliminating biases that favor unqualified individuals from dominant groups.
2. Obstacles to Organisational Change (06:53 - 08:28)Discussion of the two main barriers to creating systemic change: trying to convince people who genuinely don't care about equity, and the "frozen middle" who have aligned values but don't activate themselves to create change.
3. Corporate DEI Rollbacks (09:16 - 11:11)Aubrey's pragmatic take on companies cutting DEI programs, viewing it as a reflection of capitalist incentives and an opportunity for clarity in the labor market about company values.
4. Language Evolution vs. DEI Effectiveness (11:11 - 13:33)Analysis of how some companies are changing terminology while continuing the work, while others are genuinely abandoning equity efforts, and how media conflation of these scenarios creates misunderstanding.
5. Personal Journey and Motivations (14:14 - 16:51)Aubrey shares her adoption story and how experiencing both disadvantage and immense privilege has driven her commitment to making systems more fair and less dependent on luck.
6. Vulnerability as Strength (18:12 - 20:33)Discussion of Aubrey's decision to publicly share experiences with sexual assault and bipolar disorder, and how finding community through vulnerability helped her healing process.
7. The Power of Rebuilt Women (20:33 - 22:41)Reflection on Hannah Gadsby's quote about "broken women who have rebuilt themselves," with Aubrey adding the importance of community support in that rebuilding process.
8. Ending Culture Fit Hiring (24:36 - 27:19)Explanation of how Aubrey eliminated "culture fit" hiring at Atlassian, replacing it with values alignment interviews that removed subjective "vibes" assessments with specific behavioural questions.
9. Designing for Stress Cases (27:53 - 31:17)Aubrey outlines her "equitable design" approach of creating solutions for those with specific needs or barriers (like trans employees facing deadnaming issues), which ultimately benefits everyone in the organisation.
10. Decolonial Perspective (34:42 - 37:37)Exploration of how looking at pre-colonial systems proves our current state isn't inevitable, emphasising the necessity of imagination and hope in creating systemic change.
11. Strategic Language Choices (37:37 - 41:37)Discussion about avoiding triggering terminology that might derail conversations, with Aubrey emphasising that fighting for words over outcomes is a privileged position that can distract from real impact.
12. Speaking to Others' Values (42:59 - 45:03)Advice on connecting equity work to the existing values of those you're trying to influence, rather than trying to change their fundamental values or "woke shaming" them.
13. Micro-Behaviours for Cultural Change (46:57 - 50:21)Examples of how small actions—like a professor affirming mathematical ability or a manager normalising asking for help—can create profound impacts for marginalised individuals.
14. Actionable Leadership Steps (50:31 - 53:17)Practical advice for leaders wanting to create more equitable cultures: diversify media consumption and make incremental improvements to existing decisions, illustrated through Aubrey's mentoring example.
15. The Biggest Possible Change (53:51 - 54:09)When asked what single change would create the most positive social impact, Aubrey quickly answers: "Delete anti-black racism."
