Network Design: Branch Office Connectivity

WEBVTT
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Hey everybody, welcome back to this week's edition.
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Oh, breaking Down the Bites as usual.
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I'm your host, pat.
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You can find me on X.
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See, I did at that time I did not say Twitter.
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I'm very proud of myself.
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Good job.
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Ah,
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Yep.
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You can find me on x slash Twitter@layer8packet.
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That's the number eight.
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Kyle, you heard his cackle in the background.
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You can find him on X as
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well.
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Danath256.
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Alex,
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we're still trying to recruit him into the X sphere.
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He's not on Twitter or any social media, but if you have a question for him, Hit us up, it'll get to'em.
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No worries.
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So, you can find the show on x slash Twitter@breakinbytespod, right?
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Go there.
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So we are back this week with the trio, the Three Musketeers.
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We're doing it, doing it well, Kyle, what's up man?
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How are you my friend?
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day in Paradise Living the Dream, whatever.
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Yeah.
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it.
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That's right.
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This is the dream.
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I'd hate to see the nightmare, I'll tell you that much right now.
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But that's a just different story.
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I'll tell you what, we had some crazy weather last night.
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That thunderstorm woke me up out of asleep.
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It cracked pretty good here at my house., I'll let you do your weather thing if you have any sort of weatherman
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it's all you.
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I was, I was letting you handle it this time.
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man.
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Oh, all right.
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Geez.
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Gimme the hook.
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My goodness.
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Now we had some pretty crazy thunderstorms roll through here last night, and it was, it that lightning was no joke and it woke me up.
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I was asleep.
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So it was it cracked pretty good.
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So no no meteor shower for me, for me last night.
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It was the person's media shower, meteor shower is the last night was the best day to see it.
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So, maybe next year we'll see what happens.
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But yep.
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All good there, Mr.
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Alex.
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How are you, my friend?
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Well, I don't know if you saw some news articles recently but Disney slash Hulu had a pretty major outage yesterday, so
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I did.
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I was up
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I saw it.
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I did.
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I didn't wanna bring it up,
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four in the morning dealing with that
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Oh, no.
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But outside of that, I'm fine.
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Ah, so you're a little sluggish.
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I gotcha.
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All right, we'll go,
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I usually do, that's why.
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we'll go easy on you.
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If you hear any snoring, I'll edit it out.
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It's okay.
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Yep.
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oh, look at that dedication.
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He's up at three or four in the morning doing an, doing an outage, and now he's here talking to us bozos.
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I like it.
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Lemme tell you, So, I guess, so we had an idea this morning, or I should say the last couple days.
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It's been kind of permeating in our skulls.
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We've had a couple discussions and since we were, all three of us are network folk we, we figured, well, why don't we do a show or couple on network design, right?
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So just throw in some design topics out there, some what we've seen out there in the wild in our experience.
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What some of the best practices are, what some other things to tackle as far as what The likes of Cisco and a couple of the other big networking platforms are, for their validated designs.
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So we figured we would start with the well, I think we're gonna do three over the next couple of weeks.
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I dunno if we'll do'em bang, bang, bang, back to bang weeks.
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But we'll sprinkle'em in over the next couple of weeks.
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But we went through the branch design, the data center design that's on-prem data center, and then finish up with a cloud network design.
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Those are the big three pillars, if you will, and see what kind of mess we can make out of them as far as, again, What, what, what are some best practices from a design perspective what we've seen in our environments over the years of our careers?
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And, and just kind of give you a better idea of what, what should go on at, at each of these three major pillars and, and kind of go from there.
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So, tonight I think it makes the most sense to start with the branch design, right?
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The where, where the people are, right?
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Bringing it to the people.
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So, closest to the end user and then we'll work our way out.
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Data center on-prem, and then cloud being the last one.
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I think so.
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So I, I'm gonna hand it to Kyle kind of see what kind of mess he can make out of this as far as from a branch perspective.
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So, I don't know, Kyle, have you I've, you've worked in mainly education, right?
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So I, and, and again, this is what we think kind of goes on and what, what should go on.
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And from our experience, this, this, by no means is the gospel, but it's decent advice in what we've seen and some of the best practices that are out there from various docs that we have compiled all this info from.
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So, I guess the first question is Kyle you're obviously at a university now which has a large footprint as far as a couple buildings.
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How many buildings do you have out there, Kyle, do you know?
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actually don't.
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Yeah.
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Oh my God.
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there's a lot
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Cut.
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Cut.
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Start over.
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Oh God.
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So yeah, so I guess my question is do I guess, do you guys treat that as like an actual branch or like a true campus, or do you have like a data, I mean, I'm sure you have some sort of data center somewhere.
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And do you treat individual buildings with sort of different priority depending on what they house and like, what does that
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it's basically just kind of split to the resident side for, all the, the students and stuff like that, which is kind of segregated off from the academic network all the faculty staff and stuff like that.
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Are some buildings that are mixed, but for the most part it's like, it's either an academic space or it's a residential space, so it makes it.
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Okay.
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Simpler, I guess.
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Okay.
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but the way that it's all distributed is, is pretty much the same with fiber interconnects from, kind of the distribution out to the, the access at the end.
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Okay, interesting.
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So, so from a branch perspective, right?
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Say say your boss comes to you tomorrow and says, Hey, we're gonna spin up this new building, treat it as a a branch site.
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So a lot of folks, right?
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You're just gonna be like a single office, right?
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And not at, not at a headquarters or some sort of on-prem data center or anything like that.
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And, and I've seen it a couple ways.
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I've seen the sites treated differently based off of a who they house as far as what kind of users, right?
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If you have a, if you have a a branch full of VPs and C-level folks, that's obviously gonna get.
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More special treatment than just, regular workers.
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Right.
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may not have the amount of people that the regular workers, building houses, but because of who they are, that normally gets special treatment.
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I've seen it where they kind of dice it up into three tiers, if you will.
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Obviously tier one being a data center, most of them are either data center or like a massive like a large call center, right?
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So if your, if your bloodline is through the calls that you, that you take, right?
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That's a major a major site, tier two being like a mid-size and then like a tier three being, just to use the phrase, a small mom and pop, right?
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If they, if something were to happen on the, on with the internet or something, they could go home and work and, v p n, they don't have to sit there at that actual building.
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So I've seen it like a bunch of ways.
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So, so are you guys doing, or I should say the, the branch locations It's gonna depend on a bunch of things, money being one of them, two being how much redundancy you need as far as what's being housed there.
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So those are the two big ones I could, I could think of, but I think every sort of branch comes with some sort of access layer, right?
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So ports that, kind of touch the end users, right?
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They plug it into their desks, blah, blah, blah.
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And then some sort of some sort of core layer, it seems to be in the last couple years, they're moving to like a collapsed core, right?
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So you have the core and the distribution together, right, to save money, less management of boxes, blah, blah, blah.
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So we will just kind of go from a collapsed core, perspective kind of thing.
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So I, I'm guessing that's sort of where this sort of starts as far as from a a branch design, perspective.
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You have your core, make sure you do your major routing there, and then your downstream for the access and your wireless hangs off the axis layer, all that kind of stuff, right?
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That makes
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way.
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sense.
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And then everything's got P oe now'cause that's the way to go.
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Right.
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And all the access points hang off there, all the phones and the end users.
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And that's worked out pretty well with that.
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The collapsed core design, like you'd said.
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Yep.
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So I'm guessing then the collapse core just under the assumption that we're under the collapse core I'm gonna use Cisco'cause that just seems to be the major player in the game.
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Not everyone uses Cisco, but obviously they're the elephant in the room.
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So we're gonna, we're gonna go with that all of us have made good livings knowing, off, knowing Cisco over our careers.
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So that's what we're gonna stick with.
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But Alex, you and I were back at Evolve IP in the days of the big 6,500 bad boys, those chassis.
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And so that, I just, I'm curious then, I'm guessing the 65 hundreds are no longer at least at least the most places I've been there.
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yeah, they still have those you're probably not in the right
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in trouble.
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Yeah, they're in trouble.
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So a lot of'em moved to again, this is more of a data center thing.
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We won't go too far into it, but I've seen a lot of places that have the Catalyst 95 hundreds for cores, right.
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Or 96 something of that layer.
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So they've replaced, I think some of the old school stuff like 37 fifties and, stuff that we're used to.
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That's kind of in the new bread of the the 95 and 96 hundreds.
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Yeah.
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I mean, it's pretty much the 9,000 lines and there's so many different models within there to find what you need.
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But for the most part, most part, it's the 9,000 line.
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That's your core device.
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That's where you're having your first routing being done, so you have your SPIs there typically.
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And the access layer, surprisingly enough, they haven't changed the model number in like 20 years and it's still the 29 sixties, which seemed to be like the defacto.
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Access layer switch and they may even have a 9,000 line that they actually tout as being an axis layer switch.
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But yeah, you'll still see the 2,900 series switches and would imagine that's gotta be like half of every of all the branches out there probably use that type of setup.
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I guess on the flip side too, for branch offices, and I mean you did a whole episode on this, you could really start talking about SD-WAN and Meraki
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sure.
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and I mean, I don't, I'm not in this kind of field right now as much as say you guys would be like financials and education.
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I'm more in the data center.
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But I mean at this point is man, if you talk to Cisco, they're probably pushing you towards the Meraki point at AT, at right now.
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If you're setting up a branch, are they throwing some type of Meraki SD-WAN device and a Meraki switch?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I, I could see how they do that.
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I do think they want to try to merge some of that as far as the the Meraki side of things and the the older Cisco stuff.
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Right.
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I don't know how much they wanna step on each other's toes'cause they have that weird, like, every, every team has a, has their own product.
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They don't wanna step on other teams sort of thing.
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Which is kind of weird since we're all under one umbrella, but I get it.
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We so I've seen a, a couple places that have, or I've been at a couple places that have Meraki either for their, like really small offices, say like, less than, 10 people.
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Right.
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And they're just doing wifi.
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There's no switch there or anything.
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It's just a Meraki an MX whatever.
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That does their their, their auto V P N and gets you back to a data center, blah, blah, blah.
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That, that seems to be pretty straightforward.
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Simple enough.
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It's cheap, right?
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Spin up an office and, you're, you're up in no time sort of thing.
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The Meraki switch stuff, I, I, I've used it once or twice in various places.
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They're nice.
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The gooey is always nice, right?
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You're not fumbling through a C L I and and it has all the bells and whistles that that some of the Cisco stuff does.
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But I guess it's, I dunno if it's preference, but it just depends on what you need.
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But yeah, I would say, I would say the Meraki is getting more Noise, I guess in the, in the branch space, then maybe some of the some of the 9,000 stuff.
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'cause yeah, you almost have to justify the price of a 9,000 line, whatever that is.
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To really say, okay, look, the six people that work outta that office really need that.
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Like, that's just usually not the case.
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So, no, I, I would say that's probably fair that they're starting to kind of bleed that way at least.
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Yeah, I think the 9,000 line might be starting to get into like, all right, you're, you're almost at data center level where maybe not quite what we would define as data center level,
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yeah.
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Or maybe a call center, right.
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Call center with phones coming in, that kind of thing.
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A hundred people plus,
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But also has like a little mini data center.
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And by that I mean you might have a, like a room with four or five racks in it that actually services something maybe that then you can throw some stuff in there.
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A local like domain controller, stuff like that
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Stuff that
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that probably makes most sense.
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Okay.
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And I guess a question I had before we even go a little bit further,'cause I mean we were already starting to get in the weeds a little bit with model numbers and things like that.
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I did just wanna come right and ask you though when you say branch network,'cause we're gonna talk about data center network design as one of these follow up podcast.
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So I'll just stick with those two.
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'cause those are, the, the two obvious ones.
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What do you think are really the key differences between.
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Data center and branch, I mean, right from the, the rip of this episode you said where the, the users are.
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So where the, I would say where the, like the employees are is the branch office, but how else would you define a branch network and how is it different than, the data center network?
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Close,
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Yeah, it's an interesting one.
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I would probably say the branch is obviously where people go and there's, there's cubicles and people sit and, do their, do their tasks and whatever they're, their applications that they work on whatever it is where they access it from, blah, blah, blah.
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And then I would say the data center is technically where those apps are hosted.
00:15:07.068 --> 00:15:10.948
Like where they're actually pulling, where those end users are pulling that, that app from.
00:15:11.448 --> 00:15:23.713
Now again, a lot of that is moving towards the, the cloud and that, it kind of blurs the line and I guess it really has to make a It, it's really a business decision of like, do we really put all this stuff into a brick and mortar data center?
00:15:23.853 --> 00:15:27.503
Sink all that money into it rather than just moving it to the cloud.
00:15:27.603 --> 00:15:34.223
But I, to me, I think I've said this before, I think you, I think you run your applications where they make sense to, right?
00:15:34.323 --> 00:15:37.183
So, moving a lot of it to the cloud makes sense.
00:15:37.423 --> 00:15:48.743
'cause, well, the cloud is very agile in that, in that aspect, and you can, pretty much spin things up almost instantaneously rather than waiting for, a server and then somebody to configure it and VMware and all that kind of stuff.
00:15:49.123 --> 00:15:55.003
But there again, people that are using as four hundreds for a data for a billing platform, you're not gonna stick that into a cloud.
00:15:55.003 --> 00:15:55.563
There's no way.
00:15:55.703 --> 00:15:58.503
So, I I would say you run your apps where it makes sense.
00:15:58.563 --> 00:16:04.513
So yeah, end users branches are, where the, in, where, where they're actually sitting, getting their work done.
00:16:04.983 --> 00:16:08.673
Data centers where the actual apps that those people are using, that's where they're housed.
00:16:08.733 --> 00:16:17.713
So the, obviously the redundancy and different VM farms and things of that nature and disaster recovery and all that kind of stuff comes into play with the actual data center fabric.
00:16:18.133 --> 00:16:18.423
Yeah.
00:16:18.723 --> 00:16:24.543
And I'd probably even go a little further and say not only the apps that they use, but maybe like the company's product.
00:16:25.163 --> 00:16:39.133
So in other words, like, it's probably a little harder with like education and financials, but like, certainly with like Disney the office that I work out of, if that were to lose power, it's not like you're not gonna be able to access
00:16:39.483 --> 00:16:39.603
Hmm.
00:16:40.283 --> 00:16:40.483
Sure.
00:16:40.863 --> 00:16:45.403
so it's like complete segregation, nothing production is going to go down.
00:16:45.423 --> 00:16:52.003
If a branch office goes down, your employees might have difficulty working, but your product's not gonna go down.
00:16:53.978 --> 00:16:56.338
I guess the other question, it's not really a question.
00:16:56.338 --> 00:17:05.009
It's I guess more like of a statement and something that people should be aware of is because your product isn't in branch office.
00:17:06.328 --> 00:17:08.288
think there's a lot of things that just fundamentally change.
00:17:09.669 --> 00:17:14.288
you really have to justify cost because you can take more risk.
00:17:14.808 --> 00:17:27.128
I mean, if your employees can't work for one hour at a time, five, six times a year, that's probably a risk.
00:17:27.439 --> 00:17:37.969
That is something you can handle and you can save yourself millions of dollars in hardware by accepting some lower end stuff and lower end connectivity.
00:17:37.969 --> 00:17:45.659
Whereas, if Netflix went down for an hour every other month, it'd be hell to pay.
00:17:46.499 --> 00:17:47.038
Be a problem.
00:17:47.054 --> 00:17:47.214
right.
00:17:48.214 --> 00:17:53.034
So I think because of that the design methodologies methodology has to change a little bit.
00:17:53.173 --> 00:17:56.314
So we'll talk about it more with the data center networks.
00:17:56.453 --> 00:18:14.504
But in this case, I think you need, you want some redundancy, but now instead of dedicated circuits to data centers, you're talking about maybe just plain business internet circuits, do an SSD wan over'em.
00:18:14.504 --> 00:18:15.423
You have two of'em.
00:18:16.453 --> 00:18:19.153
If one dies, you're fine.
00:18:19.214 --> 00:18:26.034
If two die and you get unlucky, like I said, hope that they restore one of'em before too long.
00:18:26.778 --> 00:18:27.399
that's it.
00:18:28.028 --> 00:18:28.318
Yeah.
00:18:28.379 --> 00:18:34.119
I'm curious on that to kind of see what that branch sort, and again, a lot of it comes down to Okay.
00:18:34.169 --> 00:18:35.318
Again, who's sitting there?
00:18:36.153 --> 00:18:37.953
What kind of redundancy do they need, right?
00:18:37.953 --> 00:18:40.274
Because if you're redundant, you're getting two of everything, right?
00:18:40.274 --> 00:18:42.394
And that just, that just drives costs up.
00:18:42.413 --> 00:18:47.794
But there again, if people are dead in the water, how much money are you losing by those people being dead in the water?
00:18:47.854 --> 00:18:49.754
That's the that's the trade off to that, right?
00:18:49.854 --> 00:18:55.224
So, most places have redundant internet, like Alex said, just a a, a business internet, right?
00:18:55.224 --> 00:19:00.594
There's no need for like metro E or or M P L S or one of those high cost high cost circuits, right?
00:19:00.594 --> 00:19:08.193
You just do, you just do a, a, a broadband business class, internet and, stick'em into something like an SD-wan, that kind of thing.
00:19:08.193 --> 00:19:09.874
And that's more into the wind conversation.
00:19:09.874 --> 00:19:12.794
Maybe that Probably a little more fitted for data center when we get there.
00:19:12.814 --> 00:19:26.084
But, from a land perspective, I've seen it all the way from the board of, okay, just a single, single switch or maybe, two switches in a stack, if you will, and an a s a or some sort of firewall at the edge and, and that's it.
00:19:26.274 --> 00:19:31.673
Well, then at, at that point then it's, that's the cheapest you could get at that point, and that's what you want then.
00:19:31.673 --> 00:19:32.433
That's, that's fine.
00:19:32.884 --> 00:19:49.814
Kind of a, kind of piggybacking off of what Alex said, I, there was a time where I had a we, we had a customer that was was a government agency and and they, they had a, was I can't, I can't remember if it was a Cogent or Comcast or some, some reputable.
00:19:50.554 --> 00:19:55.874
Internet that came into their building and everything sat like their data center was in that building, like where their people worked.
00:19:56.653 --> 00:20:06.394
And like I would say at least once a month, Comcast cut a fiber, cut it underground fiber or cogent, whatever it was, the I s p, cut it underground fiber and took out the entire building.
00:20:06.394 --> 00:20:10.913
They were dead in the water and nobody could work across the whole, across the whole city.
00:20:10.933 --> 00:20:12.673
And I was just like, what are we doing?
00:20:12.784 --> 00:20:13.234
Like what?
00:20:13.234 --> 00:20:19.514
Move that into a data center and then just make that thing a branch and they can go home and V P N N just be done with it.
00:20:19.614 --> 00:20:22.054
I've seen, and I've seen, places that I.
00:20:22.413 --> 00:20:37.134
Have all the way, the redundant all the way through, everything from, from firewalls all the way down to the axis and into 93 hundreds or whatever they were stacked all, eight, eight in a row stacked all together and it was redundant and, blah, blah, blah, all the way through.
00:20:37.153 --> 00:20:49.864
So like, I've seen the whole gamut and it's just, I think it just comes down to how important are your users that are sitting at that particular office and what's the damage if they're down and, and can they, can they reroute, sort of thing.
00:20:49.884 --> 00:20:54.754
So it really depends on, that almost it comes, it always comes down to money, right?
00:20:54.754 --> 00:20:58.514
They all, all the bean counters want to know is how much money it's gonna cost me, right?
00:20:58.653 --> 00:21:01.673
And so it's just, that's usually the way the way it is.
00:21:01.774 --> 00:21:07.663
So, but yeah, I, I would say, an access a collapsed core and internet or two Yeah.
00:21:07.683 --> 00:21:16.894
And basically like Alex said, some sort of SD-wan probably is the, is the flavor that we're in right now as far as the network space is probably the most popular flavor now.
00:21:16.894 --> 00:21:20.374
Maybe three or four years ago, SD-WAN wasn't as popular as it is now.
00:21:20.594 --> 00:21:29.334
You're probably into some outside firewall and they were paired and, one failed and it all, yeah, yeah, one failed and it automatically failed over and blah, blah, blah.
00:21:29.634 --> 00:21:31.933
Now in the SD-WAN world, I think that got a lot simpler.
00:21:32.274 --> 00:21:36.814
But it's, it, it is an interesting time to see where that trans, that transition happens.
00:21:37.403 --> 00:21:37.754
right.
00:21:38.673 --> 00:21:48.334
I think the other thing worth noting for remote branches and, and the shift to SSD WAN is are trying to be much more user-friendly.
00:21:48.884 --> 00:21:53.193
Like, I feel like with any of these SD-wan, I mean, just the fact that they've transitioned over into a.
00:21:54.134 --> 00:22:00.974
And like a SCU in most of the situations, which means you don't even have to worry about spinning up a VM to run this, like you're running in the cloud.
00:22:01.554 --> 00:22:08.614
Things do Z T P, the zero touch provisioning where you just plug it into something that gets D H C P and internet access and this thing will call home.
00:22:08.969 --> 00:22:10.068
And it knows where to go.
00:22:10.099 --> 00:22:10.389
Yeah.
00:22:10.403 --> 00:22:11.004
That's crazy.
00:22:11.153 --> 00:22:26.294
So, and I think the, the reason for that is they wanna get to the point where a branch office is not only the delineation of like production appliances, production applications, but also the delineation of IT staff.
00:22:26.653 --> 00:22:31.254
I mean, like, you don't have to house much of an IT staff anymore.
00:22:31.254 --> 00:22:42.754
Maybe you have like one or two guys that can go around and handle wireless issues, but you, you don't need somebody provision switches and firewalls anymore.
00:22:42.754 --> 00:22:52.214
They just need somebody that has enough sense to rack an SD-WAN appliance and probably a, a wireless controller and some aps.
00:22:53.038 --> 00:22:54.239
I guess we hadn't even talked about that.
00:22:54.298 --> 00:22:59.078
That's another thing that I don't get involved with at all anymore because I don't handle any of the corporate offices.
00:22:59.419 --> 00:23:06.879
But that's probably the, a huge technology that you really see it in branching campus offices all the time, and it's huge.
00:23:06.939 --> 00:23:11.839
And that's anything related to wireless, and I don't know what you guys are doing today.
00:23:12.699 --> 00:23:13.619
I guess start with you, pat.
00:23:13.919 --> 00:23:23.984
Are you responsible at all for like, or maybe you are entirely like the, the corporate branch offices, like we're tellers are sitting Or is that a different team?
00:23:24.844 --> 00:23:41.254
Well, it, it technically falls under a different team, but I think where the sticky point is, is what they access falls back to something in a data center, which is what I'm responsible for, So it always seems to be a, like, it always seems to land with me at some point or another.
00:23:41.594 --> 00:23:54.504
So the correct answer is no, I'm not responsible for, but then what ends up happening is yes, I end up being responsible for it So, but yeah, we're, we're, like I said, we're, we're a very heavy Cisco shop where I'm at.
00:23:54.564 --> 00:24:00.984
So pretty much Cisco, everything that you can ever imagine or think of is where, is where my bread is, is buttered.
00:24:01.244 --> 00:24:07.794
But I've been places where they've used you, Cisco Light, which is, the Meraki we stuff we talked about.
00:24:07.794 --> 00:24:12.794
I've been there arrow Hive, which I think is now part of Extreme, if I'm not mistaken.
00:24:13.014 --> 00:24:19.114
It was under Dell I think at one point, but they, they've changed names a couple times, but arrow Hive aps, which, which I liked.
00:24:19.394 --> 00:24:20.754
I thought Arrow Hive was half decent.
00:24:20.923 --> 00:24:23.244
It had that zero touch feel to it.
00:24:23.344 --> 00:24:24.484
The SaaS platform.
00:24:24.484 --> 00:24:25.443
We didn't have to host it.
00:24:25.769 --> 00:24:27.489
We didn't have to host the GUI on the backend.
00:24:27.548 --> 00:24:28.889
It was all in Arrow.
00:24:28.949 --> 00:24:29.169
Hi.
00:24:29.169 --> 00:24:31.729
It was all basically hosted in Arrow Hive, which was nice.
00:24:31.869 --> 00:24:37.659
So, that, that's probably something I would hang my hat on Again, I haven't used it in a couple years, but I, I, I kind of doubt it's gotten worse.
00:24:37.778 --> 00:24:40.709
I, I, I would imagine it's only gotten better so, that kind of thing.
00:24:40.769 --> 00:24:44.139
But yeah, we're, we're pretty much, just for, for the whole thing.
00:24:44.239 --> 00:24:49.058
So, we try to stay out of the day-to-day operations of things, at least my team does.
00:24:49.159 --> 00:25:01.828
But we end up getting pulled in quite a bit just because we, we, we have that same issue of, okay, we built it, so now we own it all the way through There's no actual like, handoff to an actual ops team.
00:25:01.859 --> 00:25:05.429
It's, oh, well you built this, you know the most about it, so when it breaks it's yours.
00:25:05.459 --> 00:25:07.509
It's like, that's not really the way it's supposed to be.
00:25:08.089 --> 00:25:09.669
but, but I digress.
00:25:09.669 --> 00:25:12.009
But no, I, it's, it's, we pretty much own everything.
00:25:12.009 --> 00:25:16.659
And, and from a design perspective architect perspective, you have to be thinking of.
00:25:17.278 --> 00:25:19.699
All, all the stuff and all the things at all times.
00:25:19.999 --> 00:25:22.369
So that does, that comes into play.
00:25:22.469 --> 00:25:23.589
So, but yeah a lot.
00:25:23.589 --> 00:25:30.999
Yeah, we do a lot of wireless obviously guest wireless throughout the branch, throughout the bank and corporate, wireless authentication, the whole deal.
00:25:31.019 --> 00:25:34.808
It, it all falls to, the, the, the 50,000 foot view all falls to us.
00:25:34.828 --> 00:25:35.249
So, yeah.
00:25:35.919 --> 00:25:36.209
Okay.
00:25:37.038 --> 00:25:37.328
Yeah.
00:25:37.389 --> 00:26:08.419
And that's another trend that I'm seeing in branch offices right now with the, just sudden, I wouldn't say sudden just the consistent improvements with wireless and wireless aps, but I'm actually starting to see access, physical access, which is kind of go away a at like, in the office that I work at again I don't think 75% of the desks even have like a physical check, like everyone is just connecting to an S S I D and, and yeah, because of that, that's kinda like the new trends.
00:26:08.449 --> 00:26:11.459
Like if you want to support a branch office, you need to.
00:26:12.344 --> 00:26:19.304
Kinda understand the wireless ap, but again, we're talking about GUIs and SaaS applications, so they're probably making it pretty simple on you.
00:26:20.524 --> 00:26:21.894
But yeah, that's what I'm seeing.
00:26:22.524 --> 00:26:23.774
What, what about you, Kyle?
00:26:23.834 --> 00:26:36.334
Are you doing the, are you responsible for just end users roaming the campus and getting connected online via access points that falls under
00:26:36.504 --> 00:26:38.724
all, I don't know, 3000 some.
00:26:39.384 --> 00:26:44.884
That we have just strewn about in the residence halls and the academic labs and stuff like that.
00:26:45.703 --> 00:26:48.024
I haven't really seen any fail, so that's been nice.
00:26:48.203 --> 00:26:56.244
But yeah as we get'em, as we get'em installed and stuff like that, they just they just get rolled into me and become part of my possibility.
00:26:57.884 --> 00:26:58.943
So how do they work?
00:26:59.614 --> 00:27:05.024
Well, I guess you're not any trade secrets that you can't release, but what are you using as
00:27:05.104 --> 00:27:06.453
We're an extreme shop,
00:27:07.774 --> 00:27:08.124
Still
00:27:08.173 --> 00:27:09.384
so, it's pretty nice.
00:27:09.653 --> 00:27:20.173
Just basic controller, everything gets tunneled back and do your separate networking for everything like that, guest networks and stuff like that for visiting yada yada yada.
00:27:20.193 --> 00:27:21.254
But works well.
00:27:22.254 --> 00:27:24.683
Keep everything separated.
00:27:25.683 --> 00:27:30.703
And that's probably like 75% of your troubleshooting is people saying wifi doesn't work.
00:27:30.703 --> 00:27:30.903
Right.
00:27:31.903 --> 00:27:33.153
Yeah, that's an interesting one.
00:27:33.294 --> 00:27:37.558
I'm, I'm also interested in, Well there's two things I'm interested in.
00:27:37.558 --> 00:27:49.278
I'll hit the first one I'm interested in, like, in, in the way that you just mentioned, access switches going away, I'm seeing a lot of like desk phones go away'cause everyone's now on a soft phone or a soft
00:27:49.474 --> 00:27:50.014
Oh yeah.
00:27:50.014 --> 00:27:52.254
I mean, that's another good point about branches that
00:27:53.028 --> 00:27:53.318
yeah.
00:27:54.004 --> 00:27:57.294
just phone systems and call centers, setups and yeah.
00:27:58.834 --> 00:27:59.564
Last two jobs.
00:27:59.564 --> 00:27:59.844
Yeah.
00:27:59.864 --> 00:28:01.524
We, we, we didn't do phones.
00:28:02.034 --> 00:28:02.324
Yeah.
00:28:02.344 --> 00:28:06.173
It was all slack and teams calls, so yeah.
00:28:06.173 --> 00:28:07.334
That's another transition.
00:28:08.594 --> 00:28:11.214
And Kyle, you're still doing physical phones, right?
00:28:11.214 --> 00:28:12.173
Well, you, I think, yeah.
00:28:12.173 --> 00:28:18.433
You're still doing Cisco phones and, man, that's been so long since I did anything like that.
00:28:18.693 --> 00:28:23.074
Do you, are you running your own like Cisco?
00:28:24.784 --> 00:28:25.794
What do they even call it?
00:28:26.104 --> 00:28:26.673
Yeah, the,
00:28:26.749 --> 00:28:27.028
manager.
00:28:27.374 --> 00:28:27.594
yep.
00:28:27.663 --> 00:28:27.943
manager.
00:28:27.943 --> 00:28:28.784
That's what I was thinking of.
00:28:28.784 --> 00:28:29.344
Call manager.
00:28:29.484 --> 00:28:30.024
So you
00:28:30.264 --> 00:28:31.634
Yeah, we host that all in house
00:28:32.634 --> 00:28:32.923
Okay.
00:28:34.114 --> 00:28:37.834
I don't know you Yeah, I was never huge fan of that.
00:28:38.663 --> 00:28:38.953
Okay.
00:28:39.584 --> 00:28:40.474
Well, yeah.
00:28:40.474 --> 00:28:41.514
That, that's interesting.
00:28:41.534 --> 00:28:48.594
And you're not seeing a transition to just like a, a soft client on a, a laptop.
00:28:48.854 --> 00:28:50.394
People who just like their physical phones.
00:28:50.724 --> 00:28:51.564
people love the phone.
00:28:51.734 --> 00:28:58.254
Other end users are like, I'd like it on my laptop or on my cell phone or whatever, but give'em the option.
00:28:58.254 --> 00:28:59.014
Kind of deal like that.
00:28:59.114 --> 00:29:01.224
And everybody's happy.
00:29:03.094 --> 00:29:06.044
You'd be surprised how happy people are not when their phone does not work.
00:29:06.304 --> 00:29:08.724
I'm like thinking I don't even wanna talk to anybody, so,
00:29:09.724 --> 00:29:13.964
I will say this, I have a desk, well, I, I work mainly remote, but I do have a desk.
00:29:14.344 --> 00:29:18.244
Not that I'm there a whole lot, probably once a month, but there is a physical phone on my desk.
00:29:18.534 --> 00:29:21.034
But I also have it tied to my soft phone.
00:29:21.104 --> 00:29:29.794
That Jabber obviously, or Cisco Shop But my Jabber is almost never up and running, and so it actually goes to my work phone.
00:29:29.864 --> 00:29:30.354
It's tied.
00:29:30.453 --> 00:29:35.244
So my, my so once my Jabber phone, soft phone rings, it rings my work phone as well.
00:29:35.663 --> 00:29:39.284
And I'm gonna be honest, if I don't recognize the number, it doesn't get picked up.
00:29:39.554 --> 00:29:43.129
It's just, Like, look, you wanna get ahold of me, chat me on teams or something.
00:29:43.129 --> 00:29:48.209
But other than that, like, it's probably a sales call that I don't have any power to say yes or no to.
00:29:48.209 --> 00:29:52.929
Anyway, so so go away with your nonsense is basically what I'm saying.
00:29:53.318 --> 00:29:59.749
like, but no, that's something as far as from a branch perspective, for those that are rely on hard phones, right?
00:29:59.849 --> 00:30:06.439
So I, in today's world it's kind of hard to, outside of like an actual phone for like nine one one, right?
00:30:06.439 --> 00:30:12.159
You gotta tie it to your local 9 1 1 dispatcher, they have to know where you're coming from, right?
00:30:12.159 --> 00:30:12.839
That sort of thing.
00:30:13.019 --> 00:30:22.459
I don't really know of anybody that, I should say that I don't know of anybody, but I can't think of an actual industry that says, oh my, I need a hard phone on my desk because X Right?
00:30:22.459 --> 00:30:23.099
That sort of thing.
00:30:23.159 --> 00:30:29.709
So, but you know, years ago, when When Alex and I worked at Evolv and their bread and butter was voice, right?
00:30:29.709 --> 00:30:37.449
We did the whole, voice vlan and q o s and all that kind of stuff tied, wrapped around all those phones and all, all that kind of stuff.
00:30:37.509 --> 00:30:51.129
So if that's something that is still needed from a business perspective, a hard phone, then you know, that those sorts of things have to be, accounted for from a, from an access layer, perspective Q o s and p o e was another one you mentioned, Kyle, things of that nature.
00:30:51.349 --> 00:31:00.439
But yeah, that's, that's also an interesting sort of topic or dynamic of physical phones are, are starting to go away, at least to a degree.
00:31:00.459 --> 00:31:06.528
And people move into a soft phone or in Alex's case, slack and teams is is the big is the big boy in the room there?
00:31:07.604 --> 00:31:11.913
Yeah, I guess with everyone working from home too, just I guess less of a focus on branch offices.
00:31:12.344 --> 00:31:13.794
Offices in, in general.
00:31:14.578 --> 00:31:14.869
Yeah.
00:31:15.394 --> 00:31:21.394
I would imagine the last three, four years haven't been nice for the Meraki lineup.
00:31:22.709 --> 00:31:22.999
Yeah.
00:31:23.179 --> 00:31:24.139
I would imagine so.
00:31:24.318 --> 00:31:24.538
Yes.
00:31:24.619 --> 00:31:25.538
I would imagine so.
00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:27.339
But we do that here at the, at the bank.
00:31:27.369 --> 00:31:31.129
Like I have I have a Meraki AP at the house right here.
00:31:31.129 --> 00:31:34.528
It just basically ties into my internet and gets its own ip.
00:31:34.548 --> 00:31:37.609
And I don't have to use V P n, I don't have to use a V P N client at all.
00:31:37.639 --> 00:31:50.859
Like, I, I, it's like my house is a branch, which is great So, but yeah, my, my work laptop ties right to the S S I D that my work, that the Meraki pumps out and bam, I'm anywhere I want to go right on, right on the network.
00:31:51.219 --> 00:31:53.499
I don't have to feel fool with nothing, which is nice.
00:31:53.889 --> 00:31:54.179
Yeah.
00:31:55.624 --> 00:31:59.234
And maybe that's another topic we can kind of shift to a little bit.
00:31:59.433 --> 00:32:03.183
'cause again, it's completely different branch versus data center.
00:32:03.254 --> 00:32:08.064
With data center, you're really not too concerned about somebody physically plugging into a switch.
00:32:08.064 --> 00:32:10.423
Doesn't mean you're sitting in like a locked data center somewhere.
00:32:10.423 --> 00:32:12.304
Someone's not just gonna show up and plug into it.
00:32:12.644 --> 00:32:19.884
So there's a whole different security posture when you're talking about branch offices and certainly situations where you have like a customer walk in.
00:32:20.784 --> 00:32:21.824
I think that's another reason why.
00:32:23.499 --> 00:32:34.889
Wireless setups are more and more popular'cause there's some just native security solutions that you get with a wireless solution that you don't, with your typical switch.
00:32:34.949 --> 00:32:48.419
And we can talk about it like.one QX on switches, but when it comes to wireless access points, authenticating an access point is something that, we've been doing for 30 years.
00:32:49.159 --> 00:32:58.919
So already there's one form of security that you don't have from someone just, bringing in a laptop or bringing in some device and plugging into a, an access port.
00:32:59.379 --> 00:33:03.129
So it's like you have to authenticate to the access point.
00:33:03.669 --> 00:33:07.048
And then from there it's not too difficult really to tie.
00:33:08.028 --> 00:33:26.558
And, and maybe Kyle, you even talk about this if you guys have this set up, but once you authenticate, it's not too hard to have these wireless land controllers talk back to AD and then figure out What s ss i d should be on or what particular networks you should access and so on.
00:33:26.558 --> 00:33:35.679
And so these are things that are just kind of like built in without too much more, like you don't need some$50,000 win wireless land controller that does these sorts of features.
00:33:36.339 --> 00:33:38.839
And it's something that is pretty intuitive.
00:33:39.669 --> 00:33:48.519
Whereas if you're trying to do this stuff on Cisco switches or any switches and it starts getting a a little bit more difficult.
00:33:48.979 --> 00:33:50.239
So I guess I'll stop there.
00:33:50.459 --> 00:33:55.798
And go back to the more difficult like switch security stuff.
00:33:56.419 --> 00:33:57.759
Do you guys do anything right now?
00:33:57.818 --> 00:34:16.548
And, and maybe the answer is no, but if you guys actually have physical ports like that people could plug into at a branch, do you guys do anything today to prevent them from plugging in, their Their own little Walmart eight port switch or because
00:34:16.583 --> 00:34:17.153
Okay, Kyle.
00:34:17.228 --> 00:34:20.188
start talking about like Mac security and all kinds of other things that you
00:34:20.244 --> 00:34:27.724
Well, like, B P T or B P D U Guard and stuff like that we have is you just, you plug any kind of crap in and it's just like shuts the port off.
00:34:28.503 --> 00:34:28.793
Sure.
00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:34.219
that's probably one of the biggest things, you always get the call like, well, I plugged my crap in and it doesn't work anymore.
00:34:34.278 --> 00:34:36.978
And you're like, Hmm, right.
00:34:36.978 --> 00:34:40.478
Yeah, I'm gonna come over there and confiscate that for a man.
00:34:40.478 --> 00:34:41.158
It's mine now.
00:34:42.158 --> 00:34:42.739
That's right.
00:34:43.643 --> 00:34:43.933
Okay.
00:34:43.963 --> 00:34:45.973
Well, yeah, that, that's a, that's a decent one.
00:34:46.384 --> 00:34:47.533
Can't plug a switch in.
00:34:48.634 --> 00:34:57.903
And I know, pat, maybe this isn't technically your domain, so maybe this is at the point where you don't know exactly what the security posture is, but I'll let you try to answer anyway.
00:34:58.318 --> 00:35:05.308
Yeah obviously being a bank and, and the security controls wrapped around that due to our audits and, fed and all that kind of stuff.
00:35:05.528 --> 00:35:09.058
Yeah, we, we do we are a we do use a a knack, right?
00:35:09.058 --> 00:35:10.338
A network network access control.
00:35:10.828 --> 00:35:14.348
Obviously there's no secret we're a Cisco shop shops or we're using Cisco ice, right?
00:35:14.348 --> 00:35:14.989
That sort of thing.
00:35:15.048 --> 00:35:22.469
So, there's a lot of Cisco ice that goes on in my, in my place, and sometimes it causes a little more trouble than, than what it's worth, that kind of thing.
00:35:22.489 --> 00:35:25.408
But it does exist and it is quite it is quite useful.
00:35:25.788 --> 00:35:32.948
I, I don't have a whole lot of experience with the Cisco ICE stuff, just'cause I, like, I've only used it at one or two other places before I got here.
00:35:33.048 --> 00:35:42.428
And again, it was just more of like a, I had logins, but I, it was just more for troubleshooting purposes and not for, hey, go spin this policy up, that kind of thing.
00:35:42.489 --> 00:35:43.628
So, but yeah.
00:35:43.768 --> 00:35:53.878
Cisco ice, everybody gets authenticated no matter where you're at user whether it's plug it in, whether it's on, on wifi, you're all, it all flows through ICE to make sure that you are, who you are, that sort of thing.
00:35:54.418 --> 00:35:56.278
And then also we, we got the whole gamut, right?
00:35:56.278 --> 00:36:02.928
So the, the B P U guard, the spanning tree root guard, all that kind of stuff is on there.
00:36:03.068 --> 00:36:05.748
And then also Alex, you mentioned the Max security.
00:36:06.259 --> 00:36:08.469
Yeah, we're, we're, we have Max Security on there as well.
00:36:08.648 --> 00:36:12.748
So that kind of, it all jives together from a, from a security perspective.
00:36:12.888 --> 00:36:15.818
So, not to say that there, that it's, it's perfect.
00:36:15.958 --> 00:36:21.138
It does, some of that stuff does kind of step on each other time and time again, so you gotta kind of go digging.
00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:23.818
But otherwise now it works, it works pretty well.
00:36:23.878 --> 00:36:29.298
But yeah, there's everything facing a user report has layers of security on it,
00:36:29.553 --> 00:36:45.073
Yeah, and that's probably the stuff most network engineers are familiar with, like B D P U Guard well you don't even need root guard do B D P U Guard and then max Security, and I mean, we could go even a little further into that, but don't really have to.
00:36:45.173 --> 00:36:49.773
But pretty common to just put like, a limit of two Mac addresses.
00:36:49.953 --> 00:36:56.193
So if like you're piggybacking off a phone, you get your phone and one machine off of it, but you can't hang a, a hub that won't even send
00:36:56.364 --> 00:36:56.583
Hub
00:36:56.623 --> 00:36:58.913
BDPs, gotta have'em somewhere.
00:36:58.973 --> 00:37:00.233
And people still have hubs.
00:37:00.543 --> 00:37:07.443
There's gotta be some guy that like worked in it in the nineties that's got a, a hub bomb somewhere, Plug
00:37:07.643 --> 00:37:08.573
Yeah, probably.
00:37:09.364 --> 00:37:09.653
Yeah.
00:37:09.923 --> 00:37:10.864
the brick, the network.
00:37:10.943 --> 00:37:17.083
I've been at, I've been at places where people just sitting in pods, not really like
00:37:18.043 --> 00:37:18.463
Oh yeah.
00:37:18.688 --> 00:37:19.728
the wall sort of thing.
00:37:19.728 --> 00:37:21.328
Just in pods in the middle of the room.
00:37:21.918 --> 00:37:26.448
Then the pole coming down, feeding those pods only had four ports and they added a fifth person.
00:37:26.469 --> 00:37:27.888
You're like, oh, shit, what do we do?
00:37:27.958 --> 00:37:28.568
Blah, blah, blah.
00:37:28.948 --> 00:37:29.888
And the hub is there.
00:37:29.888 --> 00:37:33.068
And then, one day you get a call and oh, a whole pod is out.
00:37:33.068 --> 00:37:38.308
You go in, there's a switch, somebody kicked it with their foot and like the switch like doesn't have any power anymore.
00:37:38.648 --> 00:37:40.628
And it's like, oh shit, when did this get here?
00:37:40.648 --> 00:37:41.288
That kind of stuff.
00:37:41.388 --> 00:37:43.568
So it, it, it happens all the time.
00:37:43.703 --> 00:37:44.223
even worse.
00:37:44.703 --> 00:37:48.423
I mean, if it is a true hub, it is like your entire business goes down.
00:37:50.268 --> 00:37:50.688
But yeah.
00:37:51.038 --> 00:37:51.328
Yeah.
00:37:51.748 --> 00:37:55.928
Or somebody needed to plug a printer in but didn't wanna like, have a wire run for it.
00:37:55.928 --> 00:38:01.328
So they go and like, get something off of somebody's truck and be like, Hey, I've had this neck gear hub in the back of my truck for,
00:38:01.384 --> 00:38:01.933
Below the
00:38:01.989 --> 00:38:02.848
for a couple years.
00:38:03.398 --> 00:38:04.328
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:38:04.948 --> 00:38:06.188
Looks like switchboards?
00:38:07.173 --> 00:38:07.463
Yeah.
00:38:08.053 --> 00:38:08.344
Yeah.
00:38:08.443 --> 00:38:09.143
Oh, I've been there.
00:38:09.403 --> 00:38:10.023
Oh, I've been there.
00:38:10.023 --> 00:38:10.423
It's ugly.
00:38:10.683 --> 00:38:11.543
It is really ugly.
00:38:11.688 --> 00:38:12.948
are the, those are the worst.
00:38:13.168 --> 00:38:13.708
Oh God,
00:38:13.723 --> 00:38:33.313
I've only, I think in my entire career, I feel like I, there may have only been one situation where I had a true, like the entire data center is down because of a like loop where I have to drive in and console into stuff to actually find out where this is, where this is coming from.
00:38:34.818 --> 00:38:35.788
That is the worst.
00:38:35.818 --> 00:38:37.028
Kyle, why don't you tell your story?
00:38:37.028 --> 00:38:38.509
You have a pretty good layer two story
00:38:38.598 --> 00:38:38.818
one?
00:38:39.778 --> 00:38:40.308
that I've
00:38:40.398 --> 00:38:40.798
trying to think.
00:38:40.938 --> 00:38:41.558
I'm trying to think which
00:38:41.719 --> 00:38:43.148
which one I like it.
00:38:44.603 --> 00:38:45.023
Kyle's
00:38:45.108 --> 00:38:46.948
means there's multiples shit.
00:38:46.958 --> 00:38:48.547
was uh, my previous job?
00:38:50.132 --> 00:38:57.801
Somebody thought that if they bought a, their neck gear router in and you know how there's like one wan port and there's four land ports?
00:38:58.231 --> 00:39:00.521
Well, the more ports you plug in, the faster it goes.
00:39:00.521 --> 00:39:00.841
Right?
00:39:01.341 --> 00:39:10.801
So they plugged like every port in to every port in the room, and it just started havoc, havoc everywhere.
00:39:11.841 --> 00:39:12.882
it's like, what the hell's going on?
00:39:12.882 --> 00:39:21.632
You, like, you're getting D H C P on like, 1, 9, 2, just basic crap from the, the neck gear router all the way across campus and stuff like that.
00:39:21.632 --> 00:39:23.111
You're like, what is happening right now?
00:39:23.172 --> 00:39:23.632
Oh yeah.
00:39:24.091 --> 00:39:24.311
You,
00:39:24.391 --> 00:39:26.751
starts handing out A c p thinks.
00:39:26.751 --> 00:39:27.672
Yeah, that's a good one.
00:39:27.692 --> 00:39:29.311
so that was one.
00:39:29.571 --> 00:39:32.511
And one we had a super, super helpful student.
00:39:33.661 --> 00:39:37.531
Saw a, male female kind of deal like that.
00:39:37.641 --> 00:39:39.771
Like, well, these obviously should be together, right?
00:39:40.491 --> 00:39:40.611
I.
00:39:40.916 --> 00:39:44.456
One was the academic network and one was the administrative network.
00:39:44.716 --> 00:39:46.096
And he was just like, boop.
00:39:47.826 --> 00:39:50.436
Again, havoc, Oh my
00:39:50.696 --> 00:39:51.817
Carnage everywhere.
00:39:52.036 --> 00:39:56.116
'cause then one's stepping on the other and there's your shit bleeding over from network to network.
00:39:57.116 --> 00:39:57.766
It's the worst.
00:39:57.896 --> 00:39:58.096
times.
00:39:58.646 --> 00:39:59.257
Good times.
00:39:59.366 --> 00:39:59.926
is the worst.
00:40:00.286 --> 00:40:01.176
Lots of troubleshooting.
00:40:01.406 --> 00:40:03.436
Late nights, you're like, what the hell happened?
00:40:03.821 --> 00:40:04.041
boy.
00:40:05.341 --> 00:40:05.561
Yep.
00:40:06.297 --> 00:40:06.716
Mm-hmm.
00:40:07.001 --> 00:40:07.481
that's rough.
00:40:08.271 --> 00:40:08.561
Yeah.
00:40:08.981 --> 00:40:20.851
So yeah, I, I would, I would recommend for those of you at the axis layer, putting on those putting on those ports, some, root guard or B p u guard or something to lessen that havoc, if you will.
00:40:20.951 --> 00:40:24.692
So learn from a couple of old heads like us, like this shit does happen.
00:40:25.152 --> 00:40:28.851
It happens quite often, and if you don't put your foot down, it's going to continue to
00:40:28.851 --> 00:40:29.451
D T p
00:40:29.511 --> 00:40:31.331
So, Oh my God.
00:40:31.871 --> 00:40:32.451
That's it.
00:40:32.882 --> 00:40:33.172
Yeah.
00:40:33.641 --> 00:40:34.371
Yeah, for sure.
00:40:35.391 --> 00:40:44.521
Yeah, the other thing I'm interested in too and it's very interesting to me, this newer phase and I, I'll tell you right now, these are the two.
00:40:45.626 --> 00:40:48.676
Most hated buzzwords that I have in my dictionary right now.
00:40:49.346 --> 00:40:52.636
It's zero Trust, which is just a made up marketing word.
00:40:52.746 --> 00:40:53.636
I'll tell you that right now.
00:40:54.636 --> 00:41:00.926
it's made up by some marketer that just wants to push zero trust and, but it needs a boatload of shit.
00:41:02.027 --> 00:41:06.646
The other one is SAS or sass E SS a s e, right?
00:41:06.646 --> 00:41:16.007
They're, they're both made up Buzz buzzword marketing terms, but I'm interested to, because I think, I think Zero Trust is already here in some flavor.
00:41:16.236 --> 00:41:17.846
Like people are moving towards that.
00:41:18.146 --> 00:41:21.406
From, from a, a large organization, perspective.
00:41:22.226 --> 00:41:29.386
But I'm, I'm really interested in the SaaS sort of avenue because if we're doing the SaaS, Right.
00:41:29.496 --> 00:41:35.626
And you're treating your branch office like a, like a, like a SaaS connected branch.
00:41:36.416 --> 00:41:51.926
Then do you really like, from a WAN perspective on the branch, you don't even need like an edge firewall because you're, you're connected, you're, you have cloud, it's basically calling back to a, to a cloud.
00:41:51.926 --> 00:41:52.886
You're getting filtered.
00:41:53.346 --> 00:41:59.507
Basically you're, you're moving your, your, your firewall from the edge out to a cloud and you're basically being filtered from there.
00:41:59.567 --> 00:42:04.016
And you leave from your cloud provider rather than a local, a local internet, breakout.
00:42:04.076 --> 00:42:16.586
So, I'm curious to see, I don't know, maybe Alex, you're probably not that close to it since you're sort of in the Disney world, but I'm, or anybody really, I'm curious to see if you're either moving to a, a sassy solution or things of that nature.
00:42:16.866 --> 00:42:22.746
'cause really, if you think about it, right, if you implement SaaS, then all your branch offices is basically, you can work from anywhere, right?
00:42:22.766 --> 00:42:26.706
You can work from the coffee shop, you can work from wherever you can work from your car.
00:42:26.906 --> 00:42:28.027
'cause it doesn't matter, right?
00:42:28.027 --> 00:42:34.746
You don't need, you don't need corporate infrastructure to get to, like, there's no need for V P N anymore, right?
00:42:34.826 --> 00:42:41.926
A remote access V P N, you don't need to fire up your AnyConnect client or anything like that to get on to the, the, your company wan.
00:42:42.297 --> 00:42:47.496
There's no need for like the Meraki anymore to do the, the auto V P N back to your data center.
00:42:48.186 --> 00:42:49.406
Because that's all out the window.
00:42:49.406 --> 00:42:52.126
There's no, you're, like I said, that computer already knows where to go.
00:42:52.186 --> 00:43:03.797
You're already tied into some sort of client back to a cloud, edge and you're all the filtering and all the firewall and security is wrapped around at that edge, at the cloud edge.
00:43:03.817 --> 00:43:11.116
So I'm curious to see where SAS goes in the next couple of years to see if, if that simplifies the branch even further.
00:43:11.536 --> 00:43:13.516
So I dunno if anybody's got any thoughts on that.
00:43:14.386 --> 00:43:18.196
Well, yeah, it'll just completely get rid of the whole concept of a branch network.
00:43:18.326 --> 00:43:33.516
It'll just be a building that people sit in and yeah, it's actually, it's a topic that I, I really, because it doesn't impact what I would generally work on because, I'm not, I'm concerned about the, the product as opposed to the employees.
00:43:34.616 --> 00:43:36.896
I know that you had an interest.
00:43:36.976 --> 00:43:40.056
I you took some courses at Cisco live on it, right?
00:43:41.341 --> 00:43:41.661
I did.
00:43:41.896 --> 00:43:42.056
probably should
00:43:42.132 --> 00:43:42.781
Yeah, I did
00:43:42.817 --> 00:43:46.856
I pay attention to because it is interesting and it solves.
00:43:48.766 --> 00:43:52.797
Just the, the, the trend of just people working from home.
00:43:53.336 --> 00:43:55.116
Of course now they're trying to reverse that trend.
00:43:55.116 --> 00:44:17.606
So maybe we'll go back to like standard branch office designs in two, three years, But I still don't think the idea of having like true IT staff in every single branch, I think that'll probably, that'll probably never go back to the way it was where you have a team, like a real big team everywhere, and I think things like this kinda lead towards that.
00:44:18.696 --> 00:44:24.196
So really all these technologies are gonna make networking much easier.
00:44:25.346 --> 00:44:26.036
it's just like
00:44:26.271 --> 00:44:26.471
Yeah.
00:44:26.736 --> 00:44:34.706
you have some cloud provider and they just like, and do you have any experience with it yet?
00:44:34.986 --> 00:44:41.126
I mean, what exactly is it just like a, like the equivalent of a, a.
00:44:42.966 --> 00:44:54.746
A V P N client, you have some kind of client that's going out to this third party sassy or provider, and it does all kinds of checks on you and figures out what access you should have.
00:44:56.326 --> 00:44:59.416
Yeah, I, I don't have any real experience with it at the moment.
00:44:59.777 --> 00:45:06.426
I think there are some talks at various points of it in, in getting to a more, sassy model I guess.
00:45:06.567 --> 00:45:11.086
But, I think the big part of it is obviously it reduces costs complexity, right?
00:45:11.086 --> 00:45:13.366
There's only one way in, one way out right?
00:45:13.736 --> 00:45:14.426
That kind of thing.
00:45:14.846 --> 00:45:20.836
It, it's again, more of a, moving towards a centralized orchestration GUI management things of that nature.
00:45:20.976 --> 00:45:22.836
Hey, this person can go here, but not here.
00:45:22.896 --> 00:45:23.456
That sort of thing.
00:45:23.916 --> 00:45:27.846
It's, it's more of a seamless approach from a security perspective, right?
00:45:27.946 --> 00:45:41.556
So, for, for users I should say it, it, and you're, it, it has, it has thing, well it has the ability to basically restrict access based on like a user or the device or some sort of application identity, that sort of thing.
00:45:41.556 --> 00:45:48.632
So there is a lot of it that Basically can, it's, it's like a really, it's like a centralized security hub.
00:45:48.811 --> 00:45:57.632
And then those, your, your endpoints then sort of, they basically come through that hub before they go anywhere on the network, whether that's internal or out to the internet.
00:45:57.652 --> 00:46:07.591
It goes through that central hub and those policies then apply to said, device said, user said application, blah, blah, blah, that sort of thing.
00:46:07.652 --> 00:46:14.621
So, it, it, it's interesting'cause we're actually taking a flyer on a couple of SaaS providers, Cisco being one of them.
00:46:14.821 --> 00:46:16.701
'cause our SD WAN is with them right.
00:46:17.001 --> 00:46:18.461
So that makes the most sense.
00:46:18.721 --> 00:46:23.341
But there are some other players in the game to see what, see what works the best for us and that sort of thing.
00:46:23.341 --> 00:46:25.061
But I'm really interested to see what happens.
00:46:25.341 --> 00:46:35.382
'cause if, like I said, if we do get, if we do get to a true sassy solution, then the idea of any sort of connectivity local at the office completely goes away.
00:46:35.382 --> 00:46:36.461
There's no need for it.
00:46:36.491 --> 00:46:40.632
Like those PCs or those laptops already know where to call home.
00:46:40.851 --> 00:46:45.031
So why go through a, a local firewall just to get to a cloud one?
00:46:45.031 --> 00:46:45.711
That makes no sense.
00:46:45.891 --> 00:46:57.591
So I'm curious to see if that simplifies the branch even further, but then I'm sure there's other complications with that as far as, some latency or some other nonsense that, that that could, come into play.
00:46:57.591 --> 00:47:03.311
But I'm curious to see where SaaS is in the next couple years and how that really kind of turbocharges forward.
00:47:03.466 --> 00:47:03.757
yeah.
00:47:03.866 --> 00:47:05.356
I'll have to look into it a little bit.
00:47:05.616 --> 00:47:14.896
Because if you talk about cloud providers, you would think that they probably, especially if you say like, does a w s have one?
00:47:14.976 --> 00:47:21.576
I feel like they have to, or if Cisco one, they're probably using a W Ss, and so I kind of feel like a,
00:47:22.121 --> 00:47:22.411
Yeah.
00:47:22.527 --> 00:47:24.186
you're gonna be pretty close to one.
00:47:25.451 --> 00:47:25.891
Wherever you are.
00:47:26.511 --> 00:47:28.771
So maybe latency is not a big deal.
00:47:29.911 --> 00:47:40.751
And the other thing too, and I, I have to really kind of dive in and read about it some more, but I assume that kind of means that sure you might have a little latency.
00:47:40.751 --> 00:47:42.551
You go, Hey, can I access this resource?
00:47:42.891 --> 00:47:43.471
Yes, you can.
00:47:44.692 --> 00:47:55.751
And maybe after initial authentication is done, I don't think subsequent traffic traverses the, the sass e environment, at least my brief understanding of it.
00:47:56.652 --> 00:48:08.081
So maybe have like an extra 20 milliseconds for the initial connection, but then the entire socket is open for the entire time without having to go back and
00:48:08.192 --> 00:48:08.841
That makes sense.
00:48:09.027 --> 00:48:09.376
right.
00:48:09.596 --> 00:48:16.726
And it doesn't, the whole shift to this identity security just makes so much more sense.
00:48:16.836 --> 00:48:30.336
Like if you were to take someone who's not tech focused and try to explain to'em that for the last 30 years security has been based on some arbitrary IP address that you get that's generally tied to where you're physically located.
00:48:30.556 --> 00:48:45.777
Now it's completely changed and now your access is based on what it is that you are like your user laptop and that's just who you are, but making sure that you're up to whatever standards they want.
00:48:46.297 --> 00:49:07.636
'cause with these SSS s e providers, not only are they confirming you are what, you're not malicious, but, but like, you're an end user laptop on this I don't know this division of the company, but you also have like these patches, you have this software and then that dictates whether or not, and that makes, I think that makes more sense.
00:49:07.636 --> 00:49:38.856
Like if we can get to that, it makes me a little scared for exactly what our roles are, but I, I think it does make sense and it is a, it's a It's an idea that, yeah, it makes sense that that's the feature because even things like Cisco A c I, which I haven't had to work with in the, in the Wild, it takes a similar approach where if you are trying to dictate what can talk to what on an a c I environment, you're not using IP addresses.
00:49:39.086 --> 00:49:42.257
They call'EM contracts, I think is what a c I refers to'em.
00:49:42.716 --> 00:49:43.936
And the idea is the same.
00:49:43.996 --> 00:49:50.446
You pretty much just say F T P is allowed to happen from these machines to this application.
00:49:50.446 --> 00:49:52.007
It doesn't matter where that application goes.
00:49:52.226 --> 00:49:53.846
It doesn't matter where this user goes.
00:49:55.586 --> 00:50:00.886
And then it, which is a controller, will go back to all the Cisco devices.
00:50:01.466 --> 00:50:10.386
And if they are still doing the classic IP address filtering, it'll automatically or dynamically set those rules in place to allow those flows.
00:50:11.376 --> 00:50:12.797
And again, I think that makes more sense.
00:50:13.196 --> 00:50:18.007
And man, that's probably a whole nother topic that we can That's a security episode.
00:50:18.971 --> 00:50:19.261
Yeah,
00:50:19.286 --> 00:50:26.606
mean, going back to the branch office, I guess the way we tied it back into this was that again, that's just The branch office might be a lot simpler here.
00:50:26.606 --> 00:50:27.166
Before too long.
00:50:28.626 --> 00:50:33.567
The branch office will be some access points and a router that's got like four internet connections.
00:50:34.431 --> 00:50:35.011
That's it.
00:50:36.361 --> 00:50:38.251
just do dual wan and, and
00:50:38.361 --> 00:50:38.711
right.
00:50:38.856 --> 00:50:41.757
off to an AP or, or a couple aps and we're done.
00:50:41.811 --> 00:50:45.911
access switches, no SSD wan, just.
00:50:46.936 --> 00:50:47.156
no.
00:50:48.646 --> 00:50:50.936
Yeah, I'm interested to see how that goes or where that goes.
00:50:51.176 --> 00:50:52.616
'cause that, that's a hot topic at the moment.
00:50:52.786 --> 00:50:55.476
Again, to me, I think it's just a marketing term.
00:50:55.547 --> 00:50:57.636
Like SASE means a bunch of things, right?
00:50:57.746 --> 00:50:58.916
Just like Zero Trust does.
00:50:58.986 --> 00:51:03.952
it's certainly making a wave at the moment uh, with with Cisco's uh, s s e right?
00:51:04.272 --> 00:51:07.752
Security, I think it's Secure Edge something or other.
00:51:08.212 --> 00:51:13.062
Palo Alto's got their prisma Prisma access, which basically is their SaaS, platform, that kind of thing.
00:51:13.062 --> 00:51:15.692
So there's a bunch of'em out there that are doing that kind of thing.
00:51:15.692 --> 00:51:26.712
So, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm oddly curious to, to see what what happens there, what that looks like in the next couple of years, if, if that really starts to be an adoption, or if it needs some, some room to bank yet.
00:51:26.772 --> 00:51:29.632
And it's not quite ready for, for sort of prime time.
00:51:29.652 --> 00:51:32.942
But I'm it'll be an interesting thing to see where it goes.
00:51:33.123 --> 00:51:40.572
And again, the branch is, if that happens, the branch becomes Way similar, or I should say way simpler than than what it is now.
00:51:40.632 --> 00:51:46.442
And just less for a, for network folks to manage and, that sort of thing.
00:51:46.542 --> 00:51:48.572
So, interested to see what that comes up with.
00:51:48.632 --> 00:51:50.393
So, anything else on the branch?
00:51:50.632 --> 00:51:51.873
I think we, we hit it pretty good.
00:51:52.032 --> 00:51:52.592
I think
00:51:52.837 --> 00:51:56.407
Well, we like to close with the future of the branch, and I guess we kinda
00:51:56.432 --> 00:51:56.972
that's right.
00:51:57.357 --> 00:52:00.248
just did that organically without even being prompted
00:52:00.442 --> 00:52:00.732
Yeah.
00:52:01.432 --> 00:52:02.332
We didn't even try.
00:52:02.643 --> 00:52:05.812
Yeah, we we are good.
00:52:05.917 --> 00:52:06.337
Access
00:52:06.402 --> 00:52:07.132
More gooder.
00:52:07.177 --> 00:52:07.337
everyone.
00:52:08.192 --> 00:52:09.362
That's right.
00:52:10.062 --> 00:52:10.643
That's right.
00:52:10.902 --> 00:52:11.562
Access point.
00:52:11.677 --> 00:52:11.877
summary.
00:52:12.107 --> 00:52:12.397
Yeah.
00:52:12.498 --> 00:52:14.757
Branch offices, the access 0.1 router,
00:52:16.482 --> 00:52:17.062
That's it.
00:52:18.062 --> 00:52:19.522
That's right, that's right.
00:52:19.862 --> 00:52:20.082
Now.
00:52:20.082 --> 00:52:22.802
But I find it interesting of where it actually came from, right?
00:52:22.822 --> 00:52:26.248
So when guys like The three gov bus on this call started.
00:52:26.387 --> 00:52:29.807
It was, it was a lot of, it was a lot of hunkering, right?
00:52:29.927 --> 00:52:35.621
A lot of ASAs and failover and, h ss r p and, and stacks and
00:52:35.652 --> 00:52:36.741
true three-tier
00:52:37.176 --> 00:52:37.596
Mm-hmm.
00:52:38.081 --> 00:52:39.091
tier environments,
00:52:39.576 --> 00:52:39.926
Stack
00:52:39.991 --> 00:52:40.811
all that stuff.
00:52:40.936 --> 00:52:41.286
ports.
00:52:41.436 --> 00:52:41.726
Yeah.
00:52:42.076 --> 00:52:45.846
Like you said, firewalls with like 50 VPNs on it.
00:52:46.016 --> 00:52:49.846
Connecting you to every other remote branch and every data center.
00:52:50.942 --> 00:52:51.161
Yep.
00:52:51.942 --> 00:53:03.561
A lot of that and so it, it's really come, a long way and, and some, some branches did, B G P with their, with their ISPs and had multiple ISPs, so B G P failed over and all like, it's.
00:53:03.826 --> 00:53:11.436
wan, I mean, it's not like you can just plug two internet carriers in and you just have it fail over.
00:53:11.586 --> 00:53:11.876
Yeah.
00:53:12.556 --> 00:53:15.836
you had to put some more effort into that, that fail over logic.
00:53:16.067 --> 00:53:16.356
Then
00:53:16.931 --> 00:53:17.152
Yep.
00:53:18.132 --> 00:53:20.471
IP SLAs and the tracking and all that stuff.
00:53:20.611 --> 00:53:23.271
It was, oh, it was just brutal to try to get all that worked.
00:53:24.246 --> 00:53:24.976
provision it.
00:53:24.976 --> 00:53:28.376
It's not like you just plug it in and it calls back home.
00:53:29.186 --> 00:53:30.336
provisions itself.
00:53:30.346 --> 00:53:31.676
Yeah, yeah.
00:53:31.896 --> 00:53:38.556
So yeah, I'm just, I'm real, I'm just kind of looking at it from a 50,000 foot view of where it's been and where it's going.
00:53:38.666 --> 00:53:47.436
It's just, I think it's just a lot simpler today, and a lot, a lot of places are, like we said, less than 50 people, you get a Meraki Meraki switch and boom, you're good.
00:53:47.696 --> 00:54:03.326
Most places I've been now have some sort of collapse core, to them, some sort of routing intelligence and handing off to a, a VeloCloud SD-wan or Cisco SD-wan or some sort of SD-WAN box and back to a data center or out to the, out right out to the internet, blah, blah, blah, that sort of thing.
00:54:03.326 --> 00:54:05.086
So it's, it's really come a long way.
00:54:05.277 --> 00:54:11.571
Like I think, I think Alex hit the nail in the head with the wireless thing, that's gonna become way more prevalent.
00:54:11.831 --> 00:54:19.461
And then I'm curious to see where the SAS stuff goes with kind of, how we get back to, the branch all ties back to the, the, the larger wan.
00:54:19.561 --> 00:54:26.811
So, and then we have your gremlins, like your spanning tree loops and, your, your Cisco your, your, your actual physical phone's on desks.
00:54:26.831 --> 00:54:29.811
If, if that still exists in some places, which I'm sure they do.
00:54:29.841 --> 00:54:34.251
It's not like it's completely gone away, but but I, I'm curious to see where this all goes.
00:54:34.391 --> 00:54:35.931
So any other parting?
00:54:36.021 --> 00:54:37.132
We're, man, we're right at an hour.
00:54:37.201 --> 00:54:37.692
Look at that.
00:54:37.871 --> 00:54:40.891
See, we, we never thought, we never think this stuff's gonna go an hour.
00:54:40.911 --> 00:54:41.731
And here we go.
00:54:41.791 --> 00:54:42.652
We are, we hit it.
00:54:42.652 --> 00:54:43.331
We hit it hard.
00:54:44.192 --> 00:54:45.891
Any other closing thoughts here fellas?
00:54:45.891 --> 00:54:46.902
On the on the branch?
00:54:47.797 --> 00:54:48.556
I don't think so.
00:54:49.317 --> 00:54:53.116
A little sneak peek for the next network design.
00:54:53.136 --> 00:54:53.716
You talked about
00:54:54.101 --> 00:54:54.391
Yeah.
00:54:54.876 --> 00:54:56.636
tree issues with the branch office.
00:54:56.856 --> 00:55:01.266
So in the data center, we'll talk about how we don't really use spanning tree anymore.
00:55:01.646 --> 00:55:04.067
So that's all I'll say.
00:55:04.111 --> 00:55:04.811
now you're talking.
00:55:05.281 --> 00:55:06.692
Talk nerdy to me, my brother.
00:55:06.801 --> 00:55:07.531
Talk nerdy.
00:55:07.652 --> 00:55:08.091
I love it.
00:55:09.091 --> 00:55:10.591
So Kyle, anything else from you?
00:55:10.696 --> 00:55:11.777
I think we pretty much covered it.
00:55:12.701 --> 00:55:12.991
Yeah,
00:55:13.396 --> 00:55:13.996
I like it.
00:55:14.031 --> 00:55:14.271
deal.
00:55:14.501 --> 00:55:14.991
Good deal.
00:55:15.411 --> 00:55:15.831
All everybody.
00:55:16.061 --> 00:55:16.351
Yeah.
00:55:16.351 --> 00:55:19.571
Stay tuned for the next session of this little mini session.
00:55:19.731 --> 00:55:22.661
I like to call it the little mini session on, on network design.
00:55:22.761 --> 00:55:25.611
So, just curious to see where, what your thoughts are.
00:55:25.611 --> 00:55:26.692
If you like this one, great.
00:55:26.821 --> 00:55:30.621
Throw us some, throw us an email or something of that nature.
00:55:30.721 --> 00:55:35.711
Get us, get ahold of us on the on the socials and whatnot, and say, say, yeah, your nay say, yeah.
00:55:35.711 --> 00:55:37.632
We like to keep going or know you idiots.
00:55:37.902 --> 00:55:39.632
Keep, keep moving on something else.
00:55:40.571 --> 00:55:41.111
let us know.
00:55:41.336 --> 00:55:41.616
about the
00:55:41.811 --> 00:55:42.271
It, it,
00:55:42.446 --> 00:55:42.936
Come on
00:55:43.011 --> 00:55:43.551
that's right.
00:55:43.581 --> 00:55:44.591
Yeah, that's right.
00:55:44.731 --> 00:55:47.192
The Elon Zuck cage match.
00:55:47.422 --> 00:55:48.031
It's happening.
00:55:48.106 --> 00:55:48.626
we want to hear.
00:55:48.736 --> 00:55:49.027
Yeah.
00:55:49.152 --> 00:55:49.271
I.
00:55:49.652 --> 00:55:50.311
It is happening.
00:55:50.692 --> 00:55:53.911
It actually made news this week, so it's a, it's good.
00:55:54.031 --> 00:55:55.991
I guess Elon wants it somewhere in Rome.
00:55:56.011 --> 00:55:56.791
That's what I heard.
00:55:56.791 --> 00:55:58.751
Like an epic location in Rome.
00:55:58.981 --> 00:55:59.271
Like
00:55:59.786 --> 00:55:59.946
veterans.
00:56:00.007 --> 00:56:01.346
That's what I'm amazing.
00:56:01.861 --> 00:56:04.071
He's gonna retrofit the Coliseum and
00:56:05.071 --> 00:56:05.431
I fully,
00:56:05.536 --> 00:56:11.936
like, ah, get this, get this up to speed in like three weeks and I'm gonna beat Zuck right in the middle of this Coliseum.
00:56:12.936 --> 00:56:13.596
Oh man.
00:56:14.196 --> 00:56:14.636
I could just
00:56:14.741 --> 00:56:15.231
Good times.
00:56:15.986 --> 00:56:28.326
Zuck,'cause he is so into martial arts and he is doing there doing kicks and back flips and Elon just shows up in like some 20 foot mech And he's controlling with some Neuralink plant that he had
00:56:28.351 --> 00:56:28.971
That's it.
00:56:29.711 --> 00:56:30.331
That's it.
00:56:31.071 --> 00:56:31.851
Oh, I love it.
00:56:31.882 --> 00:56:32.692
Stay tuned for that.
00:56:32.692 --> 00:56:36.011
If we hear something, man, we're gonna do a whole review on the fight just on this show.
00:56:36.156 --> 00:56:38.186
maybe do a live play by play.
00:56:38.996 --> 00:56:39.496
That's it.
00:56:39.536 --> 00:56:40.116
That's it.
00:56:40.386 --> 00:56:41.476
I'll buy the pay-per-view.
00:56:41.666 --> 00:56:43.876
I'll, I'll, I'll write it off as an expense.
00:56:44.126 --> 00:56:45.257
it's streaming on X.
00:56:45.356 --> 00:56:46.297
That's what Elon
00:56:46.531 --> 00:56:47.991
Is it There you go.
00:56:47.991 --> 00:56:48.471
Even better.
00:56:48.971 --> 00:56:49.831
I'm not gonna pay shit.
00:56:49.951 --> 00:56:50.391
I love it.
00:56:50.781 --> 00:56:51.271
Awesome.
00:56:51.942 --> 00:56:56.621
Well, everybody we appreciate everybody joining this week on this episode of Breaking Down the Bites.
00:56:56.711 --> 00:57:00.132
Again, make sure you hit our website, breakingbytespod.io.
00:57:00.281 --> 00:57:03.661
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00:57:04.476 --> 00:57:05.257
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00:57:05.706 --> 00:57:08.027
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00:57:16.096 --> 00:57:20.356
Shout out to Buzzsprout or we have an r s s feed out there as well on the, on the website.
00:57:20.416 --> 00:57:25.297
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00:57:25.996 --> 00:57:33.866
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00:57:34.096 --> 00:57:35.306
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00:57:35.507 --> 00:57:36.146
I appreciate that.
00:57:36.476 --> 00:57:37.716
Simply tell a friend, right?
00:57:37.856 --> 00:57:43.476
So, I know a lot of a lot of this show is spread by word of mouth, so that's always appreciated by the three of us sitting here.
00:57:43.576 --> 00:57:45.496
And Hopefully it continues to do so.
00:57:45.916 --> 00:57:49.636
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00:57:51.606 --> 00:57:54.266
All that stuff is in the show notes of the show.
00:57:54.366 --> 00:57:57.146
So pop on over there, surveys out there, the feedback survey.
00:57:57.176 --> 00:58:01.646
It's just kind of this living, breathing thing that is just kind of out there for constant tweaking.
00:58:01.666 --> 00:58:03.277
So, if you like the show hit us up.
00:58:03.277 --> 00:58:11.416
If you hate the show, hit us up, So always looking for more feedback and just helps tweak the show and, and get more content that you want to see.
00:58:11.476 --> 00:58:13.216
So, fellas, it's been good.
00:58:13.286 --> 00:58:13.856
It's always good.
00:58:14.236 --> 00:58:15.576
See your bright shining faces.
00:58:16.166 --> 00:58:17.416
Hear your golden voices.
00:58:17.706 --> 00:58:21.906
Appreciate that joining in and we'll do it all again next week.
00:58:22.086 --> 00:58:22.626
Bye everybody.
00:58:23.777 --> 00:58:24.116
See him.