Are Coaches Killing Creativity in Athletes? with Joel Smith Ep 57

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Strength and conditioning, there's the kind of the boredom aspects of, of just over heavy handed robotic not asking questions.
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Yep.
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And, and not even seeking transfer, honestly.
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And then also then you add on, well you lose stuff when you don't play games anymore.
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You don't have gamification of some level.
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Mhm.
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Mhm.
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Mhm.
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Mhm.
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Mhm.
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Mhm.
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this and, and tell you guys a little bit more.
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But, um, I just wanna get right into this.
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So, Joel, welcome.
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Um, this is a huge honor for me.
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Followed your podcast for years on end.
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I mean, how many years, how long have you been running this now?
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You're on what episode?
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Like 500?
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Uh, almost.
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Yeah.
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Uh, yeah.
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I always track it with, my daughter will be 10 in July, and I started it about two months before she was born.
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So yeah, it'll be 10 years in, um, I guess May or something like that.
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Yeah.
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That's amazing.
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Not just the longevity, but the, the task of podcasting way back then mm-hmm.
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Compared to now had to be so massively different, but, um, I feel like your reputation precedes you, but for those who don't know, give us the quick origin story, intro background on you and, and we'll kind of jump in here.
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Sure.
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Yeah.
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So yeah, podcast has been, yeah, 10 years running and, uh, what led up to that was a career in strength and conditioning, track and field, um, athletic background of basketball, uh, and then track jumping events.
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So speed, power, hurdles, uh, javelin, all that stuff.
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Although, uh, to be honest, I feel like I'm kind of a very intermediate twitch guy who did those power events.
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I mean, I jumped into 5K once and broke 20, and I'm like, I don't think a lot of people who are truly fast could do that.
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Yeah.
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So it's, uh, but in that sense it's been part of the journey, um, of, of just trying to squeak more out of an engine that, you know, has, has some balance to it and it's good qualities, but maybe has lacked some others.
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Um.
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So, yeah, I have the typical sports science degrees, have spent time coaching track on club high school and uh, college level, and then strength and conditioning ranging from youth.
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And honestly, I would count my own kids just playing games.
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I count playing games in the living room as strength and conditioning.
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In a sense.
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It's all human performance all the way up to, uh, Olympic athletes and then masters.
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Uh, a lot of online masters now these days.
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Mm-hmm.
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But yeah, I've had, uh, then youth sports as well, uh, and, and kind of ecological dynamics and how we learn and how we learn skills and what makes an athlete.
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Um, that's been a big part of it as well.
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So probably to sum it up is kind of a large, just shotgun of a lot of stuff.
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Uh, would, would be to put it one way.
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Uh, yeah.
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And, and I'm en I'm enjoying where I'm at.
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I'm in the private, fully on private sector mode now.
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I, I run my own business now after working at, uh, Cal was my last stop, uh, as a strength coach.
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I was wondering how you went from Cal to Cincinnati.
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'cause that's not a, it's not a trip a lot of people are gonna make.
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Nope.
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I was looking at, well, it's funny'cause yeah, the, the business had got to the point where I could validate leaving and, and mm-hmm.
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I was like, oh, well if I am have my own online business, I can go wherever.
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So I was looking at Utah and Colorado and, because we would go on a trip to Colorado Springs, the swim team at Cal every year, and it was beautiful there and it's so inspiring outta the mountains.
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And I'm like, man, why don't I, and then, so I was, I was almost gonna take a trip to a gym in Utah that, it's like the Utah Valley I had, man, I had never been, it's amazing there.
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And I was like looking at contracting outta that gym and then doing my online thing and then COVID hit and I had to cancel that trip.
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And then, which kind of, in the middle of COVID, I still decided to leave, but I was a little shaky on, well, you know, everything, sales and all that stuff.
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And so.
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I just played it safe.
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And my wife has family in Cincinnati and I went to college in southwest Ohio.
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And, you know, it was, I, I coached at Wilmington College, not far from here.
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Okay.
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And so it was a familiar place.
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It was kind of one of those things where I think if you're constantly looking at life that's constantly expanding and growing, it's like, oh, the next big thing, I'm gonna live in the mountains and have a training facility.
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It's like life said, Nope.
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And honestly, it was definitely for the best because the learning curve of being completely on my own has been pretty, I wouldn't say it's super steep, but it's been enough that I appreciate the softer landing of, you know, Cincinnati area family around.
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It's, it's, mm-hmm.
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It's been, it's honestly been really good.
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I, I, I'm outside of not having mountains or ocean to look at.
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I, I'm, I'm pretty happy to be here.
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Yeah.
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If you got kids, man, family is essential.
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Yeah.
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I lived in Colorado for grad school.
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Uh, I was in Fort Collins, so about two hours north of Colorado Springs.
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But one of my best friends.
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From school lives in the springs now.
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And I mean, it's, it's so gorgeous out there.
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And when I moved back I'm like, what am I doing?
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Like, I, like, I could walk out my front door and there were mountains, I could just go climb.
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Yeah.
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But the flip side of it is like, I really don't wanna be an endurance athlete.
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And everyone seems to love that here, so I gotta find,
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yeah.
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Yeah.
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And Colorado Springs, there's that incline.
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Have you heard of that?
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Mm-hmm.
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Yeah.
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I did that once after just flying in the day before.
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And the assistant swim coaches at Cal were all about it, like beating each other and, you know, swimmers, I mean, their aerobic systems really well developed.
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And so for them that's a, a big deal.
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And I, I just did it, man.
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It was crazy.
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I, I, I mean there's people just going up and down that thing.
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Yeah, you're right.
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Like the aerobic, the dedication to like aerobic sports has definitely gotta be on another level there.
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Yeah, I felt outta place.
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Um, but anyway, man, like your background, you're like that dude who knows how much knowledge you've learned and forgotten and relearned from the guests you've had'cause you've had some amazing guests.
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Um, but I kind of wanna, I, I definitely wanna dive into this athleticism piece and I think part of this is my own background because I, I call myself a recovering beat head played sports growing up, and then you kind of get to this place where it's like rec sports or strength sports.
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And I think a lot of guys fall into the power lifting, Olympic lifting, strong man type of training.
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Seems to be a little bit of a renaissance these days with people training like athletes.
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But, um, you know, at least in the US I feel like there's always been this bias on strength top end force production in physical prep and.
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I, I think a lot of coaches could just benefit from like, picking up a new sport or moving athletically again, because I think they're missing so much.
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Um, the difference of playing a sport and hitting like a bunch of hard decels in a, in a basketball game versus training.
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It is wild if you haven't done it in a minute.
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And so, you know, I appreciate your thought and how you think about training because you're definitely like, you're an athlete first.
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Um, and I, I think a lot of guys are maybe the opposite.
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They're kind of a coach, trying to think like an athlete.
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So, you know, to kind of wrap this up into a neat question, um, when you talk about athleticism, what do you think we're like as coaches?
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We're still misunderstanding at just like a very fundamental level.
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Yeah.
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It's a good question.
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Um, I think if it was one word I would have to use to describe it, it would just be integration in the sense that we live in a world of very separate experts and you would think sometimes, well, what's the difference between an athlete coming up now and like a Michael Jordan and Alan Iversson of Hale, like all these greats of the past.
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Mm-hmm.
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Our pistol, Pete Merovich.
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I like studying these guys.
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Yeah.
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Because they didn't have skills coaches.
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They didn't have a sports trainer or anything like that.
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And a lot of the game is environmental and figuring it out yourself.
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Uh, I'll throw Bo Jackson in there as well.
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They, Bo's story is awesome.
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Like he has really like, kind of a difficult child and then, but there's stories of him like, you know, uh, leaping ditches in a single bound and stuff like that.
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So with all that, I think the thing that's been lost is the intuition and autonomy of the athlete.
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Mm-hmm.
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Like that starts with a love for movement in the sport.
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So you start with that and you also have boredom, which we don't have anymore.
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I mean, we were just talking about a little bit before we pushed a record like snow day.
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Mm-hmm.
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And then I was talking about my kids, like the, some have with the router and the tv, Roku, and then they don't get tv.
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Not that I give'em a lot anyways, but like when they're bored and they know there's no digital outlet, the intuition and make do it you.
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And I mean, it's just, it just spikes so hard.
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And we just live in this world where we are really deprived of intuition and make do, kids are always scheduled and they also just don't have as much space to really explore the sport in their own way.
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Mm-hmm.
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And so it's, and I, I think a lot about, you mentioned like the strength coach or a coach and an athlete.
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And I had a really hard time when I actually first got into strength and conditioning because I was, uh, sports medicine for two years, athletic training, which, uh, right rare.
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Very quickly I realized I did not want to do that.
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Um, and I, but I, I never had a strength coach in high school or you, our college didn't have one either, and so I'm like, I, I didn't know much about strength and conditioning outside of a few coaches I had talked with who complained about working 70 hours a week and making like 25 or 30,000.
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I was like, what is this?
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And
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yeah.
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You know, and I mean, this was back in the early ohs, um, but even my first internships.
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It really struck me after myself as an athlete from basically ages 11, dragging my dad's weights up to my room or going training in the basement and just trying to read the Kmart manual and figure this stuff out.
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Mm-hmm.
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And like buying every jump program and then having those like big aha moments.
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Wow.
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That really worked.
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And going through it all really for 10 years, to be honest, before I even set foot in a, a real weight room.
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And then honestly, being really disappointed in my experience, um, just because what I experienced was very robotic, heavy handed controlling was more about the, uh, air quotes culture, like kind of the expectation that kinda like, oh, we're gonna work hard and we're gonna be super disciplined.
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It's on the whistle and don't mess around.
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And, and I was, there was some, I couldn't have put my finger on why.
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Mm-hmm.
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I didn't like it, but I was really disappointed and I think a lot of it was, I didn't see.
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I, I suppose if you wanna get a tangible thing now, like for example, they would test out twice a semester.
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You tested your sprints and jumps at the beginning and then all the way to the end.
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Yep.
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But it was more of formality.
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It really didn't matter what you could tell what mattered was just that the strength coach sought compliance, really beat the crap outta the athletes from a just, just work.
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Not even quality, but just work.
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Yep.
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And I was like, this is so far, so far from what I've experienced as an athlete myself on every level from innovation, creativity, autonomy, dynamic correspondence, and transfer.
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Like there's none of that stuff here.
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And I was hoping the next internship I had would be better.
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But I walked in the weight room and it was pretty much the same thing.
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I remember it very clear as day this women's soccer team comes in, there's a strength coach who honestly doesn't look like an athlete at all.
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Mm-hmm.
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And you know, these girls are doing push jerks with a dumbbell.
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And I just asked the coach,'cause I, they were doing it.
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The instruction was push, do a push jerk and keep your feet on the floor.
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You know, it's a very, that's one way of doing a push jerk where it's a technic, it's a technical right in for lifting.
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It's not nothing to do with being an athlete.
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And so I asked the coach, I said, well, why don't they, why aren't they allowed to move their feet?
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Like get a little mini stomp or a little twitch of the feet?
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Isn't that more athletic?
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And the coach has just said, well, that's just how we're doing it.
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Very gruff.
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Didn't wanna, uh, you know, didn't wanna entertain any questions about her program.
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And I think those two experiences, it was at that point where I would pick, do I wanna be a track coach or a strength coach, basically?
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'cause my grad school advisors like, well, you have to pick between one.
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And because you, you, you can't kind of weight in both.
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You have to really pick one.
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And I, I'm like, I strike conditioning my experiences.
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What actual SNC is has been really kind of boring.
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So I'm gonna do track.
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And, but the funny thing,'cause track had been, it was always, always open like, yes, you can lift more, but did you jump higher in your jumping events?
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Did you run faster?
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Did your 400 meters get faster or Yeah.
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Yeah.
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All those things.
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So you're always tying whatever you're doing to the dynamic correspondence and it's a must.
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And I think I really like that.
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Uh, funny enough, the technical side of track was not an interest of mine at all early on.
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Mm-hmm.
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And I, I imagine we'll probably get to some of that, like speed training and a dium bar and all that.
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I had almost no interest in the technical aspects of my events even.
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It was all just intuitive athlete, like basically just, just trying to athlete, athlete my way through it.
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And I think for what it's worth, I, I did decently, but I also was rewarded by a torn, uh, on collateral ligament throwing javelin from probably not being enough into the technique and not being coach up in it.
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And I, my triple drop, I always wrecked my right foot.
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Part of that's'cause being pulled down on my right side, bill Hartman's stuff.
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Mm-hmm.
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Yep.
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You know, but, but later on in my career, as I started to write more and, and move through things, the technique really became more alive to me.
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So just all this to come full circle into athleticism, being an athlete and a basketball player, basketball always had a very profound impact on my track and field.
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And I noticed that very clearly when I moved to college and all of a sudden I didn't have basketball and I'm just playing pickup with kids and going to dunk.
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And I, I lost a lot of pop, even though I'm lifting and I'm doing plys.
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Yeah.
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And so.
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If we, if I have the point of, okay.
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Strength and conditioning, there's the kind of the boredom aspects of, of just over heavy handed robotic not asking questions.
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Yep.
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And, and not even seeking transfer, honestly.
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And then also then you add on, well you lose stuff when you don't play games anymore.
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You don't have gamification of some level.
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Yep.
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So those two pieces have always been kind of swirling in my head as I've moved forward the last 20 years.
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And so I just think that the isolation, because strengthening conditioning is its own container because athletes play their sport in one place and then they go see the strength coach in another place by nature that incentivizes people who, if you're in charge of the weight room, well why are you the person who's in charge of the weight room?
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And you didn't decide to be the soccer or basketball coach?
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Well, probably because the chaos of sport was, it wasn't your jam, it wasn't the most fun thing you liked actually separating and breaking from that so you could.
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Get a good pump and feel strong.
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And those are embodied traits.
00:16:13.173 --> 00:16:16.984
Like there is something that you get from a mind to body perspective by lifting heavy weights.
00:16:16.984 --> 00:16:18.663
It is good for the mind, body, and soul.
00:16:19.293 --> 00:16:21.153
Um, however, it is not sport.
00:16:21.153 --> 00:16:24.874
And many of the best athletes actually do not like lifting heavy.
00:16:24.874 --> 00:16:27.543
Not'cause it's like they're allergic to weights.
00:16:27.543 --> 00:16:33.214
It's just not rich the way, you know, juicing someone on the court is and making creative passes.
00:16:33.214 --> 00:16:35.193
It's just not lighting up the part of your brain.
00:16:35.193 --> 00:16:46.714
And so anyways, all that to be said, I just think that the more we can at least integrate or at least expose people to, even if you're a strength coach, just coaching you sports coach 10 to 12-year-old soccer or something like that.
00:16:46.714 --> 00:16:47.433
Mm-hmm.
00:16:47.583 --> 00:16:49.264
You and really get into it.
00:16:49.264 --> 00:16:55.354
Like study the play, making study athletes, learn, study rondos or whatever it is, just a little bit.
00:16:55.894 --> 00:16:59.614
And you really start to appreciate what makes someone athletic very early on.
00:17:00.394 --> 00:17:03.573
And what that 20 something you hear, the college strength coach.
00:17:04.338 --> 00:17:06.588
Here's all the steps they did to get to this place.
00:17:06.588 --> 00:17:08.808
And it gives you more of an appreciation what they really need.
00:17:09.409 --> 00:17:15.828
And so, and then finally, I'll just say too, I think I, I think it's okay that strength and conditioning is in isolation.
00:17:15.858 --> 00:17:21.078
'cause I mean, it's better than the, the, the assistant football coach writing the program the vast majority of the time.
00:17:21.084 --> 00:17:21.153
Mm-hmm.
00:17:21.233 --> 00:17:27.469
Because I've seen a disaster strike when the sport coaches are writing the strength program and, and an utter disaster.
00:17:27.919 --> 00:17:37.308
Um, but it's just, I think if you understand the sport more, you can be more efficient because what we're incentivized is to get carried away to the nth degree in whatever our little area is.
00:17:37.669 --> 00:17:39.679
And I think that's where the athlete can.
00:17:40.338 --> 00:17:45.949
That can be not ideal because it's like every little person wants to pull you as far as they can into their system.
00:17:46.159 --> 00:17:46.219
Yeah.
00:17:46.489 --> 00:17:49.848
Versus looking at the athlete as one integrated system.
00:17:50.118 --> 00:17:51.138
So I'll leave it with that.
00:17:51.138 --> 00:17:51.528
I'm sorry.
00:17:51.528 --> 00:17:53.028
That was like a big ramble.
00:17:53.054 --> 00:17:55.429
I, I hate it with do big, I hate to do big rambles.
00:17:55.429 --> 00:17:55.969
I'm sorry.
00:17:56.028 --> 00:17:58.818
Um, but that, that's the, that was ahoo and, um, yeah.
00:17:58.818 --> 00:17:59.388
Need follow-ups.
00:17:59.388 --> 00:18:00.709
I'm happy to hear'em, uh, from you.
00:18:00.709 --> 00:18:00.858
Yeah.
00:18:00.858 --> 00:18:06.318
I got, I got several and, and in fairness, I gave you a very broad question, so I'm, I'm excited to see where you went with it.
00:18:06.798 --> 00:18:19.128
Uh, the guy that works for me at my gym, he's, he's a basketball guy first, and we have some pretty interesting conversations because he comes at strength training from a much different perspective than maybe a lot of the people I learned from.
00:18:19.128 --> 00:18:19.338
Right.
00:18:19.338 --> 00:18:22.398
Where we're thinking, uh, weight room and metrics first.
00:18:23.028 --> 00:18:39.108
And one of the conversations that we commonly have is kind of around a lot of what you, you said about this integration and this intuition is that the athletes in their exposure even to sport, even to the game today.
00:18:39.483 --> 00:18:46.473
It's so overly structured that we see so many athletes that lack creativity and problem solving.
00:18:46.564 --> 00:18:58.503
And you know, at the end of the day, it's like you have to come up with some kind of movement strategy that's gonna solve a problem, whether you're creating space to get open or taking space, but athletes are so robotic these days.
00:18:58.503 --> 00:18:58.594
Mm-hmm.
00:18:59.044 --> 00:19:03.604
Um, and I think it's just a symptom of like a lot of what you highlighted.
00:19:03.723 --> 00:19:18.874
I mean, I mean, do you feel like you see that, I mean I know you work with track guys, but when you're coaching younger kids, are you seeing this or, you know, are I guess a, a way to ask this are where do you see us over coaching versus just letting these athletes self-organize?
00:19:20.104 --> 00:19:23.854
So, so much of this is cultural and it starts very early.
00:19:23.854 --> 00:19:29.134
And it's also not even in some respects, a product of the immediate coaching in front of the athlete.
00:19:29.134 --> 00:19:30.364
It's, it's their parents.
00:19:30.844 --> 00:19:34.773
It's the, the, it's whatever league is all the parents are in.
00:19:34.894 --> 00:19:35.374
Yeah.
00:19:35.554 --> 00:19:36.064
Um.
00:19:36.753 --> 00:19:43.203
And a lot of it, I think the worst of it's legacy sports, so whatever the legacy sport is in your country.
00:19:43.294 --> 00:20:00.574
For us, it's football, it's baseball, basketball, but really in my, as I see it, really, football and baseball, those are the two that are just, I mean, I took my kid, my, my son, he started baseball for example, when he was almost six, and he loved it.
00:20:00.574 --> 00:20:14.314
He loves the gear, he loves baseball, but like the first day it's like a huge lecture on don't play in the dirt and then continue these coaches, these stressed out coaches who are way too into it and in the, in the wrong way.
00:20:14.314 --> 00:20:17.493
Not in the, like, the ecological, creative, fun learning.
00:20:18.094 --> 00:20:18.183
Mm-hmm.
00:20:18.423 --> 00:20:18.463
Not in that way.
00:20:18.463 --> 00:20:18.473
Mm-hmm.
00:20:18.473 --> 00:20:18.483
Mm-hmm.
00:20:18.499 --> 00:20:24.094
They're, they're like spending, like the whole practice, just teach the kid how to grip the bat and hit it off the tee.
00:20:25.038 --> 00:20:29.628
And I'm like, you could have spent, and while all the other kids are bored climbing the fence, you know?
00:20:29.778 --> 00:20:30.019
Yeah.
00:20:30.048 --> 00:20:39.378
And it's just, they're, what's happening is they're trying to water down baseball and make it playable with parent intervention for this age group.
00:20:40.189 --> 00:20:42.798
And, you know, again, I mean, kids are gonna go through that.
00:20:42.798 --> 00:20:56.298
My, my son still had a fun time, like he still enjoyed it, but compared to, so if you go to this website called Team Mojo, it gives you age appropriate, you can say ecologically appropriate learning autonomous games for every level.
00:20:57.138 --> 00:21:06.078
And if you go to 6-year-old baseball, there are so many really fun fielding games that teach hand-eye coordination early, that you don't have to coach'em up and lecture them.
00:21:06.888 --> 00:21:09.828
And I was like, I would play that the whole time with these kids.
00:21:09.858 --> 00:21:14.538
But instead it's, I, I look at it as like a richness, like how rich, if you, you just say one through 10.
00:21:15.153 --> 00:21:19.144
Like my son's baseball practices one through 10 were like a one or a two richness.
00:21:19.653 --> 00:21:19.743
Mm-hmm.
00:21:19.744 --> 00:21:26.794
Versus if you do those team mojo games, you're sitting at a eight, nine, or 10 and you're, the kids are getting really valuable skills and they don't feel like everything is being heavy handed.
00:21:26.794 --> 00:21:37.503
Even like the thing that even drives me nuts too is like, you know, constantly elbow up elbow to a 6-year-old who's not even strong enough and is gonna bring their elbow down when they hit it anyways because they're not strong.
00:21:37.534 --> 00:21:38.584
It's just so silly.
00:21:38.584 --> 00:21:43.473
And so that's again, that, I think that's a lack of asking questions and just letting kids organize.
00:21:43.473 --> 00:21:48.304
So I remember that first practice I, I texted Jeremy Frisch, if you're familiar with Jeremy.
00:21:48.334 --> 00:21:48.574
Oh yeah.
00:21:49.173 --> 00:21:51.304
And I'm like, Jeremy, what is this with baseball?
00:21:51.753 --> 00:21:53.013
And he's like, yeah.
00:21:53.013 --> 00:21:55.653
He's like, I don't put my, didn't put my kids in baseball before they were eight.
00:21:55.653 --> 00:21:56.344
For that reason.
00:21:56.344 --> 00:21:59.403
Those coaches are way too stressed out and the kids are, don't have fun.
00:21:59.463 --> 00:21:59.554
Mm-hmm.
00:21:59.733 --> 00:22:01.953
He's like, I'll just take my kids out to do home run derbies.
00:22:02.689 --> 00:22:04.278
And by the time they're eight they're fine.
00:22:04.278 --> 00:22:11.898
And he said they, they played high level or good enough level after that with no, without the need to be in that like just low richness league.
00:22:11.898 --> 00:22:14.298
And so I think a lot of it's just a lack of richness.
00:22:14.298 --> 00:22:20.148
It's, it's it's coaches feeling they need to coach and control everything and it's just not letting the athlete move and explore.
00:22:20.449 --> 00:22:25.999
And so that's why I really like, uh, the soccer league I coach at though is awesome because it's a very, it's not a legacy sport.
00:22:26.088 --> 00:22:26.179
Mm-hmm.
00:22:26.179 --> 00:22:29.358
It's very influenced by like what they're doing in Europe.
00:22:29.388 --> 00:22:30.648
Like for example, Germany.
00:22:31.278 --> 00:22:36.138
Got its butt kicked in some World Cup and it was a national disgrace, and then they came back to the drawing board.
00:22:36.138 --> 00:22:37.608
What are we doing wrong on the youth level?
00:22:37.608 --> 00:22:39.348
We would never do that here as a country.
00:22:39.348 --> 00:22:40.189
I think it's hilarious,
00:22:40.189 --> 00:22:40.278
right?
00:22:40.729 --> 00:22:45.588
And so they're like, oh, well let's do, instead of two goals, one each side, let's do four goals.
00:22:45.588 --> 00:22:51.558
So the young kids have more options and it encourages distribution and passing from an early age, and we don't even have to coach it.
00:22:51.558 --> 00:22:52.189
That's awesome.
00:22:52.189 --> 00:22:59.239
And then it's just so, so that's the cultural thing, is not setting things up so kids can be incentivized to figure it out themselves.
00:22:59.749 --> 00:23:02.749
And that's just the thing too, is sometimes kids just aren't ready.
00:23:02.749 --> 00:23:05.358
We rush kids to places earlier than they need to be.
00:23:05.358 --> 00:23:10.068
For example, I did the four goal activity with a 7-year-old, some six year olds this year in soccer.
00:23:10.068 --> 00:23:12.259
And most of those kids are not ready for that.
00:23:12.259 --> 00:23:14.298
They just don't have the vision yet.
00:23:14.358 --> 00:23:15.013
And so, mm-hmm.
00:23:15.273 --> 00:23:21.259
But so it's like learning to see where an athlete's at, what they're capable of, then giving them the freedom to figure it out themselves.
00:23:22.128 --> 00:23:23.209
And, and like boredom.
00:23:23.509 --> 00:23:25.429
None of those exist in culture anymore.
00:23:25.429 --> 00:23:27.648
It's like everything has to be coached, everything's scripted.
00:23:28.189 --> 00:23:39.888
And if you're lucky you have some brothers or something or sisters or local kids you play with, occasionally we're, but still it's, it's not close to what used to have and it's just like, and it's that way, all the way up.
00:23:39.919 --> 00:23:41.989
And it's also that way, it's strength and conditioning all the way up.
00:23:41.993 --> 00:23:42.253
Mm-hmm.
00:23:42.334 --> 00:23:48.769
And that's another, a gripe I have about s and c that I think, you know, some kids it's fine, but I think a lot of kids, it's not ideal.
00:23:49.308 --> 00:23:54.048
Um, so yeah, it's just that lack of autonomous creative movement.
00:23:54.048 --> 00:23:56.088
And it's not just sport, it's also strength.
00:23:56.209 --> 00:24:02.419
And so I know, I imagine a lot of people in listening to this are more on the strength side, but I, I'd think it runs all the way around.
00:24:03.199 --> 00:24:09.108
Yeah, I've had so many parents reach out with a seven, 8-year-old, you know, they're elite at their level.
00:24:09.108 --> 00:24:09.888
Oh yeah, they want training.
00:24:09.888 --> 00:24:11.479
I'm like, I don't know.
00:24:11.479 --> 00:24:14.808
I'm like, maybe they just need to take a nap or like put'em martial arts.
00:24:14.808 --> 00:24:19.548
Like, it's just anything like they do, they, they do not need this.
00:24:19.638 --> 00:24:29.838
And second of all, like my, my environment, because you know, we do a semi-private, like it's intentionally for those older athletes, you know, once they can start to get into a little bit more structure.
00:24:30.259 --> 00:24:32.659
So, question, question I have kind of follow up to this.
00:24:33.919 --> 00:24:40.338
You know, my son is 10 now, and, and he had friends at eight, nine years old already on these travel teams.
00:24:40.344 --> 00:24:40.374
Mm-hmm.
00:24:40.523 --> 00:24:51.318
Some of my friends have kids and, and I'm not throwing shade at them'cause I mean, I'll be honest, my friend's got a son that plays soccer who's way more skilled at his age than than I ever was.
00:24:51.318 --> 00:24:54.588
I mean, the skillset that they have,'cause they've had to ball their feet forever.
00:24:54.588 --> 00:24:57.469
But do you think it's possible.
00:24:58.413 --> 00:25:10.473
For these kids who go through these really rich learning environments and more of a patient understanding to eventually eclipse the kids, uh, athletically who are, are getting a lot of this training early on.
00:25:10.473 --> 00:25:15.153
Because one of the, the problems that I see, and I'm kind of speaking as a parent here, not a coach.
00:25:15.153 --> 00:25:15.243
Sure.
00:25:15.874 --> 00:25:27.544
One of the challenges that I see is these kids who show more dedication early on and start to break away with some sports specific skills early, tend to get more attention.
00:25:27.544 --> 00:25:27.634
Mm-hmm.
00:25:28.054 --> 00:25:32.163
They get on the higher teams, they just get this better coaching all the way up, but I think.
00:25:33.288 --> 00:25:37.909
You And I know, like in the end, they might have, they might plateau at some point.
00:25:37.909 --> 00:25:37.999
Mm-hmm.
00:25:38.239 --> 00:25:44.419
So I guess what's have, how have you seen this development take place over, uh, like a time span of an athlete?
00:25:44.419 --> 00:25:46.669
Do they, do we eventually catch up?
00:25:46.939 --> 00:25:48.499
Just kind of how does this play out?
00:25:49.278 --> 00:25:50.659
Yeah, that's a good question.
00:25:50.898 --> 00:25:59.124
I'll, I'll preface by saying my oldest is nine, you know, so a lot of it's just me, you know, it's, it's what I see and mm-hmm.
00:25:59.209 --> 00:26:04.398
It's what I know from conversations with folks like Jeremy and Raf Kelly is a big one too.
00:26:04.578 --> 00:26:05.209
Um, yeah.
00:26:05.209 --> 00:26:14.959
You know, we all move, play and, and like a very, um, embodied approach to fitness, meaning not just like weightlifting, but what does an activity give you mentally and emotionally?
00:26:14.959 --> 00:26:18.019
Like jujitsu gives you a sense of confidence and also connection.
00:26:18.588 --> 00:26:18.709
Mm-hmm.
00:26:18.949 --> 00:26:19.999
And so there's different like.
00:26:20.719 --> 00:26:23.239
There's different things each movement practice gives you.
00:26:23.989 --> 00:26:29.088
And where I've kinda landed, at least with my, this is just from my own experience with my own kids.
00:26:29.209 --> 00:26:29.689
And yeah.
00:26:29.838 --> 00:26:37.219
I would also say very likely advice, like if, like, if a parent had a gifted 10 or 11-year-old, it's like, okay, look, we gotta do travel.
00:26:37.219 --> 00:26:38.479
Like everyone else is doing travel.
00:26:39.019 --> 00:26:39.138
Yeah.
00:26:39.138 --> 00:26:40.489
And there's different levels of travel.
00:26:41.628 --> 00:26:49.608
Um, I think that to me, my first option is to look beyond just the main sports.
00:26:49.608 --> 00:26:56.148
So usually it's like, okay, we got basketball, we got soccer, we got baseball, we got football, flag football, and all these things.
00:26:56.568 --> 00:26:59.659
And also, so early on looking into, like you said, martial arts.
00:27:00.019 --> 00:27:00.169
Yep.
00:27:00.229 --> 00:27:03.679
Uh, looking into like ninja rock climbing
00:27:03.888 --> 00:27:04.308
Yes.
00:27:04.308 --> 00:27:06.409
Parkour, those things.
00:27:06.473 --> 00:27:10.159
I, I mean it's unbelievable to me how good of a mover you have to be.
00:27:10.159 --> 00:27:11.118
Like world chase tag.
00:27:11.118 --> 00:27:12.469
If you've ever seen world chase tag.
00:27:13.203 --> 00:27:14.884
Unbelievable agility.
00:27:14.884 --> 00:27:15.513
Yes, yes.
00:27:15.513 --> 00:27:16.773
Unbelievable agility.
00:27:17.074 --> 00:27:19.294
To me it's like, and, and, and this might be a fun experience.
00:27:19.294 --> 00:27:20.134
This just kind of hit me.
00:27:20.134 --> 00:27:23.943
It'd be actually good for parents to be like, okay, you want your kid to be good at agility.
00:27:24.394 --> 00:27:27.334
Here's all the sports that really build agility, flag football.
00:27:27.903 --> 00:27:28.023
Mm-hmm.
00:27:28.354 --> 00:27:31.864
World chase tag type stuff, park core, just playing tag.
00:27:31.894 --> 00:27:31.983
Mm-hmm.
00:27:32.584 --> 00:27:34.354
Um, which I do that to warm up for soccer.
00:27:34.983 --> 00:27:40.864
'cause you could play soccer as a young athlete, like sub 10 and really not develop agility that much because
00:27:40.923 --> 00:27:41.253
Yeah.
00:27:41.284 --> 00:27:44.493
You know, it's just passing in the ball and you try to follow the ball.
00:27:45.094 --> 00:27:46.173
Basketball Yes.
00:27:46.203 --> 00:27:51.213
You have to be good enough at dribbling first that you, there's, there's a few checks you have to get, but flag football from day one.
00:27:51.213 --> 00:27:55.084
You will get good at agility and, and that's why I love flag football early on.
00:27:55.473 --> 00:28:03.513
But honestly even like, like look, if you're a play basketball and you want to be really fast on the court, you should probably play flag and soccer as long as you can.
00:28:03.513 --> 00:28:03.604
Mm-hmm.
00:28:04.413 --> 00:28:09.663
Because at some point when you do break from those, it will give you a gift that you could not get anywhere else.
00:28:10.219 --> 00:28:15.288
You could not even get, and that's just the thing too, as I talk about like the sectioning off, it's like, yeah, like it's great.
00:28:15.318 --> 00:28:22.578
Like if someone comes to me and they want to get faster and, and better deceleration or better cutting, you know, I, I'm happy to work with them.
00:28:22.578 --> 00:28:30.798
I want to give them the best experience I can, but even the best I can offer is not gonna be as good as what they would get if they like played or didn't play like flag football or something like that.
00:28:31.068 --> 00:28:31.338
Yeah,
00:28:31.338 --> 00:28:32.328
like just running kids.
00:28:32.328 --> 00:28:36.348
I, I coached flag football this last year and, which was kind of tough for me'cause I didn't actually play football.
00:28:36.769 --> 00:28:50.388
But like just having kids run through a gauntlet, you just line up cones and one kid's on one side, the flag pulls on one side and you gotta get through the flag puller, the moves and jus these little kids are busting out are so much beyond like a cone change of direction drill.
00:28:50.388 --> 00:28:50.719
I see.
00:28:50.719 --> 00:28:54.709
With older athletes, they already have it in their system and even, um.
00:28:55.548 --> 00:28:56.419
I forget his name.
00:28:56.419 --> 00:28:58.519
U Eugene Bosman, I think is his name.
00:28:58.519 --> 00:29:00.138
He's like a, a rugby guy.
00:29:00.138 --> 00:29:04.999
He might be solid African, but he just talked about the culture of like rugby and these change of direction sports.
00:29:05.568 --> 00:29:09.528
And the little kids are watching the, the older athletes and they're mirroring their dukes.
00:29:09.949 --> 00:29:10.038
Mm-hmm.
00:29:10.278 --> 00:29:12.229
You cannot teach any of that stuff.
00:29:12.288 --> 00:29:16.308
It is environmental and it is cultural and you just have to be immersed in it.
00:29:16.308 --> 00:29:20.838
So that's what I'll just say one level, it's almost like if we could section off, okay.
00:29:20.838 --> 00:29:23.538
Agility, jumping ability, volleyball.
00:29:24.078 --> 00:29:24.288
Yeah.
00:29:24.288 --> 00:29:24.979
Basketball.
00:29:25.338 --> 00:29:28.489
Um, and then you have just speed, hopefully you're doing track.
00:29:28.489 --> 00:29:30.528
And then football, flag football again.
00:29:30.979 --> 00:29:37.969
Um, total like general lower body utilization, soccer, being able to use your body as a lever.
00:29:37.969 --> 00:29:47.838
Judo and martial arts and stuff like, so you could kind of, if you wanna say build the ultimate athlete, if you had each of these tracks, if you looked at like almost a video game where you level up and all these things.
00:29:48.409 --> 00:29:53.074
If you had all these tracks and you maxed those out and then you worried about it.
00:29:53.989 --> 00:29:59.808
I that if, if I'm looking at, you know, being the best athlete you can be for, for one sport as the young goal, yes.
00:30:00.318 --> 00:30:04.699
But then there's another frame of mind if we took the college scholarship thing totally out of this
00:30:04.729 --> 00:30:04.848
Yeah.
00:30:05.148 --> 00:30:05.989
That didn't exist.
00:30:07.098 --> 00:30:10.338
Now it's almost like, well now we're doing sport because we just wanna love it.
00:30:10.459 --> 00:30:14.148
It's, it's not as much, oh, my kids going here.
00:30:14.148 --> 00:30:14.838
And, and that's great.
00:30:14.838 --> 00:30:18.679
You know, if your kid makes D one or whatever, or even D three.
00:30:18.709 --> 00:30:18.769
Yeah.
00:30:18.769 --> 00:30:19.608
Like, that's awesome.
00:30:19.608 --> 00:30:24.378
I, I mean, honestly, I, if my kid's playing college, you know, or they don't, it's fine.
00:30:24.378 --> 00:30:26.028
But I know I'll be proud of it too.
00:30:26.088 --> 00:30:26.449
Of course.
00:30:26.449 --> 00:30:26.868
Who wouldn't?
00:30:26.868 --> 00:30:27.108
Right?
00:30:27.108 --> 00:30:27.378
Like
00:30:27.499 --> 00:30:27.888
Yeah.
00:30:27.949 --> 00:30:31.638
But if we took that college scholarship just totally outta the equation.
00:30:32.058 --> 00:30:32.449
Yep.
00:30:32.538 --> 00:30:38.659
And, and heck, even I, I'm not saying we shouldn't do this, but let's just say for a thought expert, you even took varsity high school sports outta the equation.
00:30:39.229 --> 00:30:40.219
Well now what do you have?
00:30:41.088 --> 00:30:47.568
Well, you have things that your kids enjoy that you generally enjoy and you're gonna probably do for the rest of your life, you know?
00:30:47.868 --> 00:30:47.959
Mm-hmm.
00:30:48.199 --> 00:30:50.189
And hopefully that's like, and that's just the thing is.
00:30:51.318 --> 00:30:53.449
It'd be nice if we all played sports.
00:30:53.449 --> 00:31:06.588
Like I was just talking to my buddy in the sauna last night, you know, he was at doing a Sunday night basketball league and he's like 38, but it's like it's so hard to get guys out for Sunday night basketball and it was su Saturday morning, but their gym time got taken.
00:31:07.038 --> 00:31:07.159
Yeah.
00:31:07.338 --> 00:31:09.888
It's not easy to get out and play sports and that sucks.
00:31:09.888 --> 00:31:12.888
Like that is an unfortunate part of what the world we live in.
00:31:12.888 --> 00:31:16.669
We should not live the world where it's this hard to get guys together to play a pickup game.
00:31:17.298 --> 00:31:23.358
Like because, because 200 years ago or whatever, you know it, everyone lived in kind of the village, right?
00:31:23.358 --> 00:31:31.909
And if you wanted to play, or even in a third world country or whatever, like where everyone's just kind of closer anyways and maybe they, they don't have to work all week, or maybe they do, I don't know.
00:31:31.999 --> 00:31:33.798
They have to work more than we do.
00:31:33.798 --> 00:31:40.818
But I mean, the ideal it would be you have free time and you're in closeup proximity that hey, let's roll the ball out and do this thing.
00:31:40.818 --> 00:31:44.298
And it's just part of life, but we don't live in that life anymore.
00:31:44.298 --> 00:31:46.219
And so there's so many things where I think we.
00:31:47.028 --> 00:31:49.638
I'm a person who just doesn't like to accept the world we're in.
00:31:49.638 --> 00:31:50.269
You know what I'm saying?
00:31:50.358 --> 00:31:51.828
Like, I, I, I refuse.
00:31:52.398 --> 00:31:53.479
I do not accept this.
00:31:53.898 --> 00:31:54.798
Um, so I just think yeah.
00:31:54.798 --> 00:31:59.163
Zooming out and kind of looking from, yes, we have the optimization track of what all these sports give you mm-hmm.
00:31:59.243 --> 00:32:00.499
That even the coach can't give you.
00:32:00.949 --> 00:32:04.519
But then we also have, well why, looking at things that you're gonna do for life.
00:32:05.088 --> 00:32:14.388
Um, so like rock climbing's, one of those things I, I expose, you know, my kids, we, um, we go to the rock climbing gym, uh, just to give them that exposure of, of a sport that's not.
00:32:14.868 --> 00:32:16.788
What everyone just tries to do to get discussion.
00:32:16.818 --> 00:32:19.699
'cause you know, you're probably gonna like doing that for life.
00:32:20.088 --> 00:32:20.449
Yeah.
00:32:20.568 --> 00:32:22.159
And other things, you know, parkour, whatever it is.
00:32:22.159 --> 00:32:23.868
Like, or, or, or, or martial arts.
00:32:23.868 --> 00:32:29.509
And so I think there's a lot of ways of looking at it, but I think yeah, there's that optimization route, which I think is good.
00:32:29.509 --> 00:32:31.878
And then I think there's that lifetime route, which I think is also helpful.
00:32:32.509 --> 00:32:32.719
Yeah.
00:32:32.719 --> 00:32:36.828
The uh, the 10 o'clock tip off for the, the men's league is not working for me.
00:32:36.858 --> 00:32:37.848
Oh yeah.
00:32:37.848 --> 00:32:39.348
I'm like, y'all, y'all like, I'm getting ready for bed at this.
00:32:39.378 --> 00:32:42.528
Like, I am not, I am not doing this at 10 o'clock.
00:32:43.098 --> 00:32:52.969
Um, I know you've had Hank crying off on your podcast before, but you know, you talk about the college thing and um, he was talking about when he trained Natalie Cuman, I think that's her name.
00:32:53.239 --> 00:32:53.328
Yeah.
00:32:53.598 --> 00:32:54.169
Um.
00:32:55.338 --> 00:33:03.318
And he said that, like, it was just kind of an off the cuff thing that he said, but it was such a different, uh, perspective on athletic development than we have in the United States.
00:33:03.318 --> 00:33:11.509
And he said, you know, when I got Nelly, she was, she was really young, she was about 16 and, and we didn't know how high her ceiling was gonna be.
00:33:11.509 --> 00:33:22.878
And I'm, and I just remember thinking like, man, at 16, if you're not in the, on the select team, if you're not on the top one team, if you're not varsity in all region, like, forget scholarships.
00:33:22.878 --> 00:33:25.308
Like, we are expecting these kids to be ready to go.
00:33:25.308 --> 00:33:27.229
And he's like, yeah, we got, we got a ton of time.
00:33:27.229 --> 00:33:28.429
Like she's only 16.
00:33:28.429 --> 00:33:32.568
And I don't know, just his nonchalance with that is what really stood out to me.
00:33:33.259 --> 00:33:42.048
Um, but anyway, so we're kind of dancing around some of these, I don't wanna say softer qualities, but you know, the elasticity, rhythm, body awareness.
00:33:42.078 --> 00:33:42.169
Mm-hmm.
00:33:42.618 --> 00:33:48.378
And I mean, admit, I am, I like data, I like measurable outputs.
00:33:48.378 --> 00:33:51.318
I like being able to quantify things and see progress.
00:33:51.318 --> 00:33:52.159
I also understand.
00:33:52.594 --> 00:33:57.483
And recognize that can be a fool's air, and especially when we're talking about overall athleticism.
00:33:57.483 --> 00:34:14.733
But I guess for you, where do these qualities, how do we blend all this together when we have, you know, this development of the athlete and these softer qualities also with, you know, the structured kind of higher outputs that we wanna see?
00:34:14.733 --> 00:34:30.273
Because I think a lot of coaches get in this place of like, well, we can't just like, you know, woo saw and feel our way to strength, but like, we also recognize just doing strength and, and adding five pounds to the bar or measuring vlo is, is maybe not the end goal.
00:34:31.534 --> 00:34:31.773
Yeah.
00:34:32.673 --> 00:34:32.914
Yeah.
00:34:32.914 --> 00:34:40.204
So I think there's, you need the data, like, but I, I guess it would be what data are you measuring and rewarding?
00:34:40.563 --> 00:34:46.469
So the ultimate data is dynamic data, so it's sprints and jumps and reactive strength and mm-hmm.
00:34:47.253 --> 00:34:51.034
If you have medicine balls or different medicine ball throw distances and outputs.
00:34:51.588 --> 00:34:52.458
Those kind of things.
00:34:53.208 --> 00:34:54.739
Uh, I actually am, uh, yeah.
00:34:54.739 --> 00:35:01.489
As much as I talk about play, my origin and I, this kind of goes into when I didn't care about technique so much.
00:35:01.489 --> 00:35:01.548
Yeah.
00:35:01.639 --> 00:35:04.759
So, yeah, for my early twenties, I really didn't care about technique that much.
00:35:06.018 --> 00:35:12.054
Um, and it was all like Charlie, Francis and Berk, Kansky and all that stuff.
00:35:12.313 --> 00:35:13.278
And, and I lived it.
00:35:13.278 --> 00:35:21.349
And I even, I was even getting the point where I had Excel sheets back in the day where I was trying to find a way to quantify everything in a weekly program.
00:35:21.349 --> 00:35:23.134
So like a high jumper or a track jumper.
00:35:23.134 --> 00:35:23.143
Mm-hmm.
00:35:23.389 --> 00:35:32.898
I was like, okay, this type of plyo counts as five, give it a score, five, this type of ply, all accounts as one, this strength item counts as this.
00:35:32.898 --> 00:35:36.679
And I was trying to kind of have these quantified weekly, and then I realized, I'm like, this just doesn't work.
00:35:36.679 --> 00:35:41.389
Because now from my perspective, now that falls apart very quickly because.
00:35:42.063 --> 00:35:47.469
The ju the two jumps you did at practice that were just like PR practice, PR level mm-hmm.
00:35:47.914 --> 00:35:52.173
That you really had to dig for That could be worth a hundred, honestly.
00:35:52.594 --> 00:35:52.623
Okay.
00:35:52.713 --> 00:35:57.994
It, it's just, so, it's just the, the perceptual and environmental just changed things so much.
00:35:58.443 --> 00:36:00.963
Um, and so that was a little bit of a fool's Aaron.
00:36:00.994 --> 00:36:06.813
But even now, like, I like making, um, like triathlons or pentathlon, that's my current muse is Okay.
00:36:06.813 --> 00:36:10.353
What's the top three or top five KPIs of your sport data back that.
00:36:11.059 --> 00:36:12.739
Have good relevance to your success.
00:36:12.739 --> 00:36:16.309
Okay, let's make a, let's, I like track, I like decathlons and scoring tables.
00:36:16.518 --> 00:36:16.608
Mm-hmm.
00:36:16.849 --> 00:36:17.929
So let's make a score outta that.
00:36:17.929 --> 00:36:19.998
Let's give it one to a hundred for each of those items.
00:36:19.998 --> 00:36:26.778
And you know, the higher your score, you should be better off in moving the needle towards those physical characteristics of your sport.
00:36:26.778 --> 00:36:29.239
I did that with, uh, football for example.
00:36:29.478 --> 00:36:35.989
It was a triathlon, uh, it was with a guy, Ty Le and this was at King's High School up here on the north side of Cincinnati.
00:36:35.989 --> 00:36:40.909
And it was, uh, 40 yard dash, broad jump bench press, of course football bench press.
00:36:40.909 --> 00:36:41.088
Right.
00:36:41.088 --> 00:36:41.719
You gotta have that.
00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:41.929
So,
00:36:41.929 --> 00:36:42.378
absolutely.
00:36:42.528 --> 00:36:43.219
They got a score.
00:36:43.248 --> 00:36:46.909
They got wristbands like Tony holler for each level that they did.
00:36:47.028 --> 00:36:49.489
And the guys improved so much.
00:36:49.489 --> 00:36:51.364
I mean, they shredded their forties and it's like.
00:36:52.188 --> 00:36:54.739
A lot of that's just, you know, environment is so big.
00:36:54.739 --> 00:37:01.068
Like we could talk about setting up the start when Ty who ran it, he didn't even coach their sprint technique either for the forties.
00:37:01.068 --> 00:37:07.639
I think he showed'em basic starting, they spent, they just spent most of their practices chasing, racing, agility drills, all that stuff.
00:37:08.088 --> 00:37:13.159
And then you have the environmental pull of, oh man, I get this wristband and here's my status and tribe.
00:37:13.164 --> 00:37:13.193
Mm-hmm.
00:37:13.728 --> 00:37:15.708
And so, um, but you have the numbers.
00:37:15.768 --> 00:37:17.208
The numbers will pull you.
00:37:17.208 --> 00:37:22.878
If you do not have data and numbers to pull you, then you're kind of playing around at the end of the day.
00:37:22.878 --> 00:37:24.559
So you, you have to have that.
00:37:24.619 --> 00:37:28.009
But then on the other side it's like, well then the, how are you moving?
00:37:28.009 --> 00:37:43.369
Because kind of like I mentioned with like the pro elite, high level players who don't necessarily love the weight room, um, they tend, I find people who tend to innately not love the weight room tend to actually be pretty good movers from like a fluid perspective, like
00:37:43.369 --> 00:37:43.699
mm-hmm.
00:37:43.938 --> 00:37:47.954
Body control, rhythm, timing, the, a smoothness is another big one, right?
00:37:48.014 --> 00:37:48.434
Mm-hmm.
00:37:48.514 --> 00:37:48.523
I
00:37:48.768 --> 00:37:50.719
found, and, and even the people who.
00:37:51.289 --> 00:37:53.088
Like, didn't love the weight room, but they lifted.
00:37:53.478 --> 00:37:58.759
I always found there was kind of a limiter where if the weight got to a certain point, they would just be like, I'm good.
00:37:58.969 --> 00:38:08.059
And, and I, I kind of always felt like they had an internal clock that kind of said maybe when they were compensating, maybe they ran out of space to move into a LA bill model or something.
00:38:08.059 --> 00:38:10.759
They just knew that, where the grinder's like, ah, screw it.
00:38:10.759 --> 00:38:11.659
I'm just gonna lift this way.
00:38:11.659 --> 00:38:15.829
You know, like those people just, they just have that internal sense of movement.
00:38:15.918 --> 00:38:19.159
And to me, the core of that all is, it's really rhythm.
00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:20.119
Mm-hmm.
00:38:20.164 --> 00:38:29.358
Uh, and, and I can go in a little bit more what I mean by that, but, uh, yeah, it's, I, but it is, it's body control, it's awareness, uh, but ultimately it's a sense of rhythm.
00:38:29.358 --> 00:38:33.139
And then that sense of rhythm can be specific to whatever your exact outcome is.
00:38:33.139 --> 00:38:39.588
So whether it's how you dribble a basketball and operate or whether you, how you run or mm-hmm.
00:38:39.829 --> 00:38:40.548
Jumping and hopping cadences.
00:38:40.643 --> 00:38:47.389
But yeah, a lot of the movement quality and smoothness is, a lot of it is a sense of internal rhythm.
00:38:47.389 --> 00:38:48.708
And that's something that's also rarely.
00:38:49.668 --> 00:38:52.818
Really, really coached or looked at in the typical weight room situation.
00:38:53.358 --> 00:38:53.599
Yeah.
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:56.869
I would love for you to expand on that because I can see the deficits.
00:38:56.958 --> 00:39:00.648
Um, we do it at like a really primitive level.
00:39:00.768 --> 00:39:16.878
If I switch from, you know, like a, a skip to, um, a regular skip to a bound, to a single-sided dribble, like those different cadences and tempos can really throw a lot of kids, let alone the kids I have who can't even figure out skipping.
00:39:16.878 --> 00:39:19.429
They're, you know, the ipsi lateral same side.
00:39:19.429 --> 00:39:22.728
So I, I mean, I would love for you to, to jam on that for just a second.
00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:23.599
Yeah.
00:39:23.748 --> 00:39:27.018
So I think, like I mentioned, I think some of it is specific to what you do.
00:39:27.048 --> 00:39:33.949
Like, for example, you could have Steph Curry who, who people talk about, they listen to Steph Curry in warmups for shooting.
00:39:33.978 --> 00:39:34.068
Mm-hmm.
00:39:34.338 --> 00:39:37.309
And it's just a, the rhythm is like bounce up.
00:39:37.548 --> 00:39:39.349
It's like it's very consistent.
00:39:39.349 --> 00:39:43.219
The same rhythmic execution is gonna be very similar.
00:39:43.804 --> 00:39:50.614
And as I find the rhythm guides you, it's part of the full and body kind of not overthinking it, not really using the forebrain.
00:39:51.184 --> 00:39:51.454
Yeah.
00:39:51.454 --> 00:39:58.474
It, and in the same way I talked about the problem with sport performance, it can be very isolated.
00:39:59.014 --> 00:40:09.184
We tend to isolate skills to what, what we think about what we're doing versus what we feel about what we're doing and what we feel about what we're doing is driven by a sense of rhythm and, and you actually feel the ball.
00:40:09.184 --> 00:40:16.204
Like if you play basketball, you can feel the reverb and it's some, so it's something that really goes beyond, uh, just do it this way.
00:40:16.744 --> 00:40:21.994
Uh, but then I think if you took Steph Curry, yes, he's gonna be way better at a skips than the average Joe or James.
00:40:22.293 --> 00:40:22.384
Sure.
00:40:22.534 --> 00:40:28.054
But is he gonna be able to do, you know, straight leg bounce to dribbles or single leg, single leg skipping?
00:40:28.474 --> 00:40:31.713
He would probably need to practice it a bit and probably could be okay at it.
00:40:31.713 --> 00:40:33.273
But that's not his sport.
00:40:33.393 --> 00:40:33.454
Yeah.
00:40:33.454 --> 00:40:36.454
And so on a level rhythm becomes specific.
00:40:37.009 --> 00:40:37.548
To your sport.
00:40:37.548 --> 00:40:40.188
I think there is a general, like there's a general rhythm.
00:40:40.188 --> 00:40:40.278
Mm-hmm.
00:40:40.518 --> 00:40:44.298
Just kind of feeling it operating in that way, attuning yourself to that kind of mode.
00:40:44.929 --> 00:40:50.059
And then there's these little specific outcomes, whatever your actual sport execution is.
00:40:50.059 --> 00:40:58.068
And so I find to me, the most basic rhythms that are very general would be just things like hopping and, uh, Rafe Kelly.
00:40:58.068 --> 00:41:00.048
So we mentioned Rae Evolve, we play.
00:41:00.048 --> 00:41:00.469
Mm-hmm.
00:41:00.708 --> 00:41:04.818
One time on my podcast he talked about, um, African dance and drums.
00:41:04.909 --> 00:41:06.918
And Frank Forensic is really big on this too.
00:41:06.918 --> 00:41:13.039
Frank is a sociologist and a Stanford grad who's really into like, what is exercise?
00:41:13.039 --> 00:41:13.559
And he goes mm-hmm.
00:41:13.563 --> 00:41:16.248
He studied like the long living tribes and visited them.
00:41:16.248 --> 00:41:23.329
And, but so much of it is like, and I think basketball of all sports is the sport where you have a drum with you.
00:41:24.018 --> 00:41:26.688
Because it's this ball that's constantly your drum.
00:41:27.588 --> 00:41:34.728
And I just think that I, I should have mentioned that with like, okay, what do these sports give you to get to, to grow up in an environment?
00:41:34.728 --> 00:41:45.679
Think of basketball, grow up in an environment where you see athletes who are constantly going between their legs and behind back and spin moves, and you watch them and they have this sway and swagger as they're dribbling.
00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:50.568
And then the beat of that ball, you start to embody that beat and rhythm yourself.
00:41:51.048 --> 00:41:54.349
Contrast that to your only sense of this is, hey, here's a speed ladder.
00:41:54.349 --> 00:41:55.188
Just do this thing.
00:41:55.789 --> 00:42:02.449
You know, so that I, and I think, um, just, yeah, so just like a appreciation for music and hopping.
00:42:02.449 --> 00:42:10.938
And so one of the ways that I like to do that is having music on practice and just doing basic hopping and even the skipping that you can do it too.
00:42:11.628 --> 00:42:21.768
And if you go to track meets, you watch, especially college meets you and indoors where everyone hears the music, if there's warmups, you see athletes, all the A's and B's and stuff, they're all doing each of the music.
00:42:21.773 --> 00:42:23.059
It's just wired in the system.
00:42:23.059 --> 00:42:25.849
At least the good athletes who, who let the rhythm go.
00:42:25.849 --> 00:42:39.739
You got the overly cerebral people who are like, you know, they're trying to really hit their hand positions and their, their, their, their clock is just some external thing, but the good athletes are always doing it to whatever the music is for the most part.
00:42:39.949 --> 00:42:45.798
Um, and so I like, yeah, just hopping basic low level p PIOs to music.
00:42:45.949 --> 00:42:53.389
Uh, max Shank gave a good, um, he was on my podcast a long time ago and I am, I actually haven't checked out much of his stuff lately.
00:42:53.389 --> 00:42:55.938
He was really big on T Nation for a while for those people.
00:42:56.418 --> 00:42:57.048
Whot Nation.
00:42:57.378 --> 00:42:57.528
Yeah.
00:42:57.528 --> 00:43:03.829
And he said the ultimate like cure for elasticity is just hop for five minutes to music or dance and hop for five minutes to music.
00:43:04.429 --> 00:43:04.818
So.
00:43:05.568 --> 00:43:14.329
I think and, and with dance, it's interesting because the best dancers are not the best athletes because they have so many degrees of freedom.
00:43:14.778 --> 00:43:14.869
Mm-hmm.
00:43:15.108 --> 00:43:16.009
That they can't be strong.
00:43:16.009 --> 00:43:22.518
You know, if we talk about Bill Hartman and we talk about reciprocal and orientation, like Michael Jackson probably has zero orientations.
00:43:22.518 --> 00:43:26.659
I'm sure he doesn't have zero, but he is all reciprocal watery motion.
00:43:27.048 --> 00:43:29.329
But if that guy took a tackle, he would break in half.
00:43:29.329 --> 00:43:34.159
You know, like his raw force production is extremely low.
00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:34.219
Yeah.
00:43:34.518 --> 00:43:36.454
So it's like, well, how much rhythm do we have to have?
00:43:36.454 --> 00:43:37.579
We have to have enough.
00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:41.809
We have to have that basic sense, and then we need to tie it into whatever our specific outcome is.
00:43:41.809 --> 00:43:46.128
So I think for track athletes to have different locomotive rhythms, that's really good.
00:43:46.458 --> 00:43:48.079
Does a basketball player need those?
00:43:48.199 --> 00:43:49.548
Probably not, but maybe a few.
00:43:49.878 --> 00:43:52.489
But I think our base, our base is hopping.
00:43:52.938 --> 00:43:53.449
And
00:43:53.449 --> 00:43:58.909
then I also, so I do that to music and then I, I also do running, uh, I'll do for a lot of online clients.
00:43:58.909 --> 00:44:07.518
I actually noticed this, this was very interesting, is one year, its a few years ago, I really got into, I would be listening to music and I was running, I remember this kind of started one day.
00:44:07.923 --> 00:44:13.219
I, I, I had to, uh, I had to watch the kids and had to work out the same time.
00:44:13.219 --> 00:44:19.969
And I was, and so they're in the front yard and, and I had my headphones on and I was like, all right, I got the sidewalk here.
00:44:19.969 --> 00:44:24.318
And so I was running and to the beat, I was hitting my foot on the cracks, basically.
00:44:24.619 --> 00:44:28.009
So like every step four beat and I would play around with it.
00:44:28.009 --> 00:44:29.268
It was like a giant speed ladder.
00:44:29.268 --> 00:44:29.599
Really.
00:44:29.659 --> 00:44:30.648
Like sometimes I, yeah.
00:44:31.639 --> 00:44:33.409
And I did that for like 30 minutes.
00:44:33.528 --> 00:44:36.768
And then the next day, oh man, I felt so athletic.
00:44:36.768 --> 00:44:37.728
My Achilles didn't hurt.
00:44:38.418 --> 00:44:39.798
And I was like, I think I'm onto something.
00:44:39.798 --> 00:44:46.219
And so I kind of made different modulations of this and, and I started just, it just the output to clients was just cadence drunk.
00:44:46.429 --> 00:44:48.438
And it was basically just listening to music.
00:44:49.498 --> 00:44:50.523
120 beats per minute.
00:44:50.523 --> 00:44:53.074
110, you're gonna double it for every step.
00:44:53.074 --> 00:44:55.264
Or your left foot hits every one 10.
00:44:55.264 --> 00:44:56.943
So you're sitting at about four hertz.
00:44:57.094 --> 00:44:57.153
Yeah.
00:44:57.934 --> 00:45:05.344
Which is acting pretty fast, but I, so, but, um, it's, it's a basic hertz, and then you could also get a metronome.
00:45:05.344 --> 00:45:06.063
It's a little boring.
00:45:06.063 --> 00:45:09.844
And then you can turn that to about 2 0 5, 2 10 and every step.
00:45:11.074 --> 00:45:16.954
Uh, so I'll, I'll use that a lot of times as to Cool down from the weight room, just to kind of recalibrate.
00:45:16.954 --> 00:45:18.574
'cause it does recalibrate the body.
00:45:18.634 --> 00:45:24.903
And the thing you notice about athletes when they're doing things on a rhythm, it does screw you up because you can't run that fast down it.
00:45:24.963 --> 00:45:27.934
Because you can't open up, you can't like, swing out and open up.
00:45:28.623 --> 00:45:32.014
But if you watch an athlete, there's such a distinctive sense of timing.
00:45:32.014 --> 00:45:33.829
Everything is so connected and integrated.
00:45:34.208 --> 00:45:34.628
Mm-hmm.
00:45:34.708 --> 00:45:37.173
And I, after running that with athletes for a period of time.
00:45:37.983 --> 00:45:39.454
They were telling me like, oh, I'm playing.
00:45:39.574 --> 00:45:40.804
When I play sports, I'm better.
00:45:41.134 --> 00:45:44.164
Like, it's just the rhythms there, like something is better and more connected.
00:45:44.164 --> 00:45:51.123
And I think it's that internal, you're not necessarily think, you're not trying to run it from your forebrain so much as you have this internal sense of rhythm that
00:45:51.364 --> 00:45:51.574
mm-hmm.
00:45:51.813 --> 00:45:54.664
Can be connected to whatever it is that you do.
00:45:55.293 --> 00:46:01.713
And so yeah, that's, that's where two of the things that I, strategies I really like to utilize.
00:46:01.713 --> 00:46:05.224
And then a place that'll go, I wanna to try this with track in HighJump.
00:46:05.224 --> 00:46:10.983
So for HighJump, I, I've seen like synchronized HighJump or two people high jump a bar at once and they run at the same time, but mm-hmm.
00:46:10.983 --> 00:46:16.623
I was thinking about doing like, just approach runs, like where you try to mirror the person next to you and you try to fall in rhythm with them.
00:46:16.623 --> 00:46:20.704
If you watch Kenyan distance runners, their specific rhythm, they all,
00:46:20.704 --> 00:46:21.213
oh yeah.
00:46:21.304 --> 00:46:21.934
Same step.
00:46:21.934 --> 00:46:23.329
Step for step, for step for step.
00:46:23.373 --> 00:46:24.574
They all run kind of the same.
00:46:25.324 --> 00:46:26.583
Cadence, which is awesome.
00:46:26.733 --> 00:46:31.594
And it's like, that's another thing where I don't think they probably talk about running form very much over there.
00:46:31.594 --> 00:46:34.353
You occasionally see his videos, it's like, oh, Kenyan running form.
00:46:34.353 --> 00:46:43.893
Like some Kenyan guy goes to like some rich whites, preppy white, you know, uh, school in the US all these drills and like, oh, Kenyans just running.
00:46:43.893 --> 00:46:49.623
But I think so much of it is, yeah, I'm sure that's helpful, but I'm sure a lot of it is just environment.
00:46:49.653 --> 00:46:51.994
You're, you're falling in line with the person next to you.
00:46:51.994 --> 00:46:55.293
You're mirror feeling their energy and their rhythm and their run and you have a groove.
00:46:56.014 --> 00:46:58.264
And that teaches the thing is I think that's the core.
00:46:58.264 --> 00:47:11.523
'cause I think that base of rhythm, your body wraps itself around that and finds its own little optimals and it's, I that's a richer way of learning I think than so often what we look at the way of learning, and I think it's more innate, speaks to who we are as humans.
00:47:12.273 --> 00:47:12.543
Yeah.
00:47:12.543 --> 00:47:18.034
You've said, you've said a couple things that like triggered my brain's, like pulling some old files I haven't even thought about in a minute.
00:47:18.063 --> 00:47:23.583
But, um, one of them is, I remember watching.
00:47:24.094 --> 00:47:25.414
This was in graduate school.
00:47:25.414 --> 00:47:27.528
We were talking about, uh, the nervous system.
00:47:27.813 --> 00:47:34.833
And they had, I believe it was somebody with like a, a cerebral, uh, it was either a palsy or, um, Parkinson's.
00:47:34.893 --> 00:47:37.264
And they had'em do like kind of a march, right?
00:47:37.293 --> 00:47:41.373
As fast as they could, like a, I mean, you could think like an a, a run or something like that.
00:47:42.364 --> 00:47:49.353
And then they put a metronome to like 160 beats a minute, and all of a sudden, like their top speed just went up.
00:47:49.353 --> 00:47:49.414
Yeah.
00:47:49.954 --> 00:47:53.164
Like by, by an order of magnitude, you know?
00:47:53.164 --> 00:47:54.213
So the.
00:47:54.829 --> 00:48:01.159
The un like kind of no constraints, just do it as fast as you can versus keep with the music.
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:07.248
It's like their brain instantly picked that up and found a cadence that was well beyond, you know, what they could do.
00:48:07.248 --> 00:48:13.789
And I don't know what they ever did with that data or what became meaningful of that, but it was, it, I remember being super interesting at the time.
00:48:14.539 --> 00:48:24.409
And then as, as you kind of talk, I'm thinking about, is it the Kenyon's videos where they're all doing like their A skips where it's up and out and there's like f you know, 15 rows of'em all in on sync.
00:48:24.648 --> 00:48:27.498
Like that's, I mean, we would never see that here.
00:48:28.068 --> 00:48:28.818
No, no.
00:48:28.818 --> 00:48:35.059
But it is funny'cause I think that I, I think that those videos that they do, I would wonder if you would go there.
00:48:35.059 --> 00:48:39.378
Well, I, there was somebody who sent me, somebody who traveled and trained with the Kenyans.
00:48:39.798 --> 00:48:39.889
Mm-hmm.
00:48:40.128 --> 00:48:40.188
The
00:48:40.188 --> 00:48:42.858
big things that I noticed from that training trip was.
00:48:43.293 --> 00:48:50.284
They're weightlifting, they do a little weightlifting, you know, dumbbells and light barbells, but it's like they do a lot of like, step aerobics to rhythm with dumbbells.
00:48:50.289 --> 00:48:50.398
Mm-hmm.
00:48:50.483 --> 00:48:53.614
They're doing like these rhythmic step aerobics with dumbbells and stuff.
00:48:53.614 --> 00:48:59.614
So there's rhythm there, and then they're running in a rhythm, but they didn't have anywhere in the video where they did like all the marching in a line.
00:48:59.614 --> 00:49:03.784
I, I almost have this sense like, that might be for show for westerners, you know?
00:49:03.784 --> 00:49:05.074
Mm-hmm.
00:49:05.074 --> 00:49:05.943
Like, like I, but I don't know.
00:49:05.943 --> 00:49:07.353
I'd have to go spend some time there.
00:49:07.833 --> 00:49:08.313
Um, yeah.
00:49:08.313 --> 00:49:15.664
I think I just so much think the core of it is just that dance drum type rhythms and then mirroring an environment, mirroring your buddies and, and that kind of thing.
00:49:16.143 --> 00:49:16.384
Yeah.
00:49:16.384 --> 00:49:17.824
I think a lot of it's the relaxation too.
00:49:17.824 --> 00:49:28.833
'cause we had a football guy start with us last night and, you know, I was like, look man, if there's a problem, you're just gonna solve it with more force, more extension, you're gonna lock everything up and you're just gonna grit your way through it.
00:49:28.833 --> 00:49:33.844
I mean, I'm like, how are you supposed to move and change direction if you just never, if you never have an off switch?
00:49:33.873 --> 00:49:34.199
You know what I mean?
00:49:34.199 --> 00:49:34.438
Mm-hmm.
00:49:34.518 --> 00:49:35.643
There's just no rhythm.
00:49:35.643 --> 00:49:39.094
It's just like he's Batman mode all the time.
00:49:40.054 --> 00:49:40.114
Yeah.
00:49:41.239 --> 00:49:46.489
It is, uh, something I like to do with those people sometimes is amplify the error.
00:49:46.668 --> 00:49:50.418
So to say, Hey, be even be way too forceful.
00:49:50.418 --> 00:49:52.639
Show me what way too much force feels.
00:49:52.639 --> 00:49:55.219
Like, show me what way too much jaw tension and neck tension mm-hmm.
00:49:55.458 --> 00:49:56.268
Feels like on this.
00:49:56.268 --> 00:50:01.849
And then it's like, oh, if they're, if they're willing, sometimes they're not willing.
00:50:02.059 --> 00:50:08.059
So, but I, I always find sometimes we're so unaware of how we move, we're so locked in, even now it's at 42.
00:50:08.059 --> 00:50:17.418
I was just doing, um, galloping takeoff drills with high jumpers yesterday, and I just feel myself just giving this extra orientation lock of the shoulder mm-hmm.
00:50:17.659 --> 00:50:21.739
To get myself that little extra lift at the end because I'm not getting what I want outta my foot.
00:50:22.188 --> 00:50:22.429
Yeah.
00:50:22.429 --> 00:50:25.278
I didn't find the thing I wanted outta the lower half, so I'm making up for it.
00:50:25.818 --> 00:50:30.918
And I just, that has gotten so locked in and so it's, I I didn't have time after practice.
00:50:30.918 --> 00:50:35.208
I wanted to just put music out in Gallup for a half hour, but my wife needed me to pick up stuff from the store.
00:50:35.208 --> 00:50:36.469
I had to do an Instagram post.
00:50:36.469 --> 00:50:44.659
I'm just like, oh, that's the only thing in modern life, by the way, just a, a side I really dislike is just, there's less creative time for us as coaches because of life sometimes.
00:50:44.659 --> 00:50:50.099
And I think the, the ideal is we would have an hour or two a day to just play with the movement and mm-hmm.
00:50:50.099 --> 00:50:54.199
And I think that, and I think in a very laid back situation, that would be the reality.
00:50:54.768 --> 00:50:58.278
Um, I know I, I, every time I do get time to explore, it's like, oh, this is so good.
00:50:58.278 --> 00:50:58.699
I need more.
00:50:58.998 --> 00:51:00.048
I wish I could do this more often.
00:51:01.068 --> 00:51:01.278
Yeah.
00:51:01.278 --> 00:51:03.619
I get, I get buried in that, that rabbit hole, right.
00:51:03.619 --> 00:51:07.128
Of, you know, do things like, we're just constantly doing things.
00:51:07.128 --> 00:51:10.159
So one of my escapes is just reading, like fantasy and sci-fi.
00:51:10.188 --> 00:51:15.889
'cause I'm like, it just takes me to a, to a far off place where I'm just thinking about different stuff and I don't know, magic systems.
00:51:15.889 --> 00:51:17.239
It just helps kind of break the mold.
00:51:17.239 --> 00:51:23.119
But, um, I, I wanna talk about Bill stuff because you and I, um.
00:51:23.704 --> 00:51:24.483
Both, both.
00:51:24.483 --> 00:51:29.284
Love Bill, I've, I've seen you integrate his stuff with speed id, we've, you've talked about it a couple times.
00:51:29.284 --> 00:51:37.264
So one of the challenges I see is that, um, many coaches are waiting in these deep rabbit holes.
00:51:37.264 --> 00:51:38.643
So you get introduced to it.
00:51:38.643 --> 00:51:38.704
Yeah.
00:51:38.733 --> 00:51:43.414
I think there's some utility and then it kind of gets to this confused complexity, right?
00:51:43.414 --> 00:51:44.643
We have a lot of, of moving parts.
00:51:44.643 --> 00:51:47.733
We're not really sure how to kind of make sense of this.
00:51:48.034 --> 00:51:53.224
And I think at the end, guys kind of come out, um, with very simple approaches, right?
00:51:53.224 --> 00:51:58.503
So it's simple in the beginning, then it's complex, and then it's simple again at the end, but it's a little more
00:51:58.684 --> 00:51:58.773
mm-hmm.
00:51:59.014 --> 00:52:00.664
Elegant and pragmatic.
00:52:00.664 --> 00:52:14.014
And so I guess the question I want to ask around this is, when you were getting into this, what, what problems did the movement or the model actually solve for you?
00:52:15.304 --> 00:52:15.603
Yeah.
00:52:16.054 --> 00:52:22.293
A lot of it was initially connecting the dots to stuff I had seen with Christian Thito buckets.
00:52:22.293 --> 00:52:23.824
So just very global buckets.
00:52:23.824 --> 00:52:28.443
Not not specific movements, not specific joint injury issues and injuries.
00:52:29.043 --> 00:52:36.393
But it was my, my fascination right when Christian's system came out and for those not familiar Christian had like a five bucket system on
00:52:36.423 --> 00:52:36.574
mm-hmm.
00:52:36.813 --> 00:52:45.574
Elastic, powerful athletes or muscular powerful athletes or elastic kind of intermediates and all this type of thing.
00:52:45.574 --> 00:52:49.804
And as soon as I saw his system and a lot of people critiqued it, they're like, oh, you can't measure brain.
00:52:49.804 --> 00:52:51.304
It was on brain neurotransmitters.
00:52:51.304 --> 00:52:52.653
You can't measure it like that and all this.
00:52:53.403 --> 00:52:59.193
But for me it's like I see this, I see a lot of this in the athletes I work with and it was like a huge light bulb went off.
00:52:59.253 --> 00:53:04.264
And a big part of that was because I was a high jumper, classical, narrow ISA elastic and
00:53:04.293 --> 00:53:04.503
yep.
00:53:04.713 --> 00:53:06.393
I was somebody that a lot of lifting.
00:53:06.963 --> 00:53:11.344
Really took stuff from me that really was needed to be a good high jumper.
00:53:11.884 --> 00:53:17.313
Um, and, and even stuff that people would typically say is good, like Olympic lifts and cleans.
00:53:17.943 --> 00:53:21.063
If I did too much of that, I actually didn't have the bounce.
00:53:21.063 --> 00:53:26.403
I think a lot of it, you know, if you wanna get technical, I think I just couldn't open up the back of my pelvis is good for the Olympic pole.
00:53:26.554 --> 00:53:26.673
Mm-hmm.
00:53:27.123 --> 00:53:31.893
Probably put more muscle on my back than I needed to and just didn't have that quick pop or something like that.
00:53:33.393 --> 00:53:38.614
Um, I say something like that because I think all model, all models are use are wrong, but some are useful.
00:53:38.614 --> 00:53:39.454
So I'm like, you know what?
00:53:39.454 --> 00:53:40.563
That's probably most of it.
00:53:40.983 --> 00:53:47.074
Um, so it was initially answering a lot of those questions on, well, why is a high jumper?
00:53:47.074 --> 00:53:48.903
Did this work for me or not work for me?
00:53:48.903 --> 00:53:48.994
Mm-hmm.
00:53:49.728 --> 00:53:52.414
And so that was very, very helpful initially.
00:53:52.414 --> 00:53:54.543
And then a lot of it, and then it starts to become.
00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:58.143
I, I almost look at it as how much math could you handle in school?
00:53:58.204 --> 00:53:58.838
Like I mm-hmm.
00:53:58.918 --> 00:54:06.273
I did good at basic math stuff that I could easily wrap my head around, play with numbers as soon as it got to like rules, like solid rules, like calculus, pre-calc.
00:54:06.273 --> 00:54:10.173
I was out, man, I would just start, I, my a DD got the best of me.
00:54:10.173 --> 00:54:11.224
I couldn't pay attention.
00:54:11.463 --> 00:54:11.733
Yep.
00:54:11.764 --> 00:54:23.704
And I mean, I got decent scores when I was tested on those items for like the GRE, but I just, but, so I have the ability to play with variables, but I just cannot pay attention when it's a certain amount of rules that I haven't heard before.
00:54:24.003 --> 00:54:24.094
Mm-hmm.
00:54:24.333 --> 00:54:30.393
And when I'm taking bill's stuff, I, I feel that a, d, d and inability to take those classes coming in pretty hard.
00:54:30.393 --> 00:54:36.003
And so I almost am unable to go down the rabbit hole to a certain level, if that makes sense.
00:54:36.034 --> 00:54:36.063
Okay.
00:54:36.063 --> 00:54:42.664
And maybe it's a blessing, I don't know, for what I do as a, as a more, as a sports performance coach, maybe it's a blessing.
00:54:42.664 --> 00:54:47.523
If I was a physical therapist and really needed to chase into that stuff, it probably would be holding me back.
00:54:48.184 --> 00:54:48.693
Um.
00:54:49.369 --> 00:54:54.768
So the, the thing that it did with the lifting, I'll say it was the lifting that was the biggest piece.
00:54:54.798 --> 00:55:00.469
And so the two ones that were just the most, the basic heuristics for me are pinched squat.
00:55:00.739 --> 00:55:03.978
And that a wide iss gonna be better at R dls.
00:55:03.978 --> 00:55:06.679
And it was funny'cause I always could deadlift a lot too.
00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:07.248
Mm-hmm.
00:55:07.489 --> 00:55:11.268
And I also have long arms and a good grip strength, like really good grip strength.
00:55:11.809 --> 00:55:14.778
And, and I was always like, man, my deadlifts way better than my squat.
00:55:14.778 --> 00:55:18.378
I can't be like, you know, I, what do you mean I can't deadlift?
00:55:18.378 --> 00:55:19.309
And then it kind of hit me.
00:55:19.909 --> 00:55:26.478
And now if I do hinges and deadlifts, I can actually feel when I run outta space, especially like I'm holding a cable in front of me.
00:55:26.494 --> 00:55:26.914
Mm-hmm.
00:55:27.039 --> 00:55:30.918
And like Aer cable in front, I'm like, oh, I ran outta space so fast there.
00:55:31.759 --> 00:55:33.498
I'm like, oh, that's makes sense.
00:55:33.498 --> 00:55:39.739
And so what's really, and to try to put as simply as possible, I understand.
00:55:39.739 --> 00:55:42.438
And see when people run outta space in a, in a movement.
00:55:42.798 --> 00:55:42.889
Mm-hmm.
00:55:43.128 --> 00:55:48.318
And when you run outta space, then what is your compensation to get the rest of the thing.
00:55:48.858 --> 00:55:53.628
And so the goal is to get the cleanest lifting experience possible for the athlete.
00:55:54.199 --> 00:55:59.929
And so for like the narrowest of narrow ISA elastic, like I have a high jumper, who is that?
00:56:00.619 --> 00:56:00.739
Mm-hmm.
00:56:01.489 --> 00:56:04.248
Like if she does a hurdle hop, she bends her knees like three degrees.
00:56:04.248 --> 00:56:08.119
Like she does not want to descend down into that at all.
00:56:08.119 --> 00:56:09.619
And especially not a forward hinge.
00:56:09.619 --> 00:56:09.679
Yeah.
00:56:10.248 --> 00:56:29.628
Um, and so she's somebody who in the weight room can very easily get destroyed by classical lifting and but of a lot of high jumpers are built like her and strength coaches don't understand that they run outta space really fast and it is not gonna help to keep pushing that square peg in the round hole there.
00:56:30.228 --> 00:56:35.208
Um, so that's, that's been a big one, is understanding space in a hinge space in a squat.
00:56:35.298 --> 00:56:35.329
Mm.
00:56:35.838 --> 00:56:41.059
Um, the wide ISA is ta taking me longer because I'm not a wide ISA, but I see it better now.
00:56:41.059 --> 00:56:50.539
I see people who are so stiff and try to drop straight down to the Squatty squad, and so putting them on like roller wall squats and stuff like that, and that's been really helpful.
00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:57.168
Um, and then the, the space you can move into from an ERI or external internal rotation perspective.
00:56:57.199 --> 00:56:57.289
Mm-hmm.
00:56:57.528 --> 00:56:58.849
That's been another really helpful thing.
00:56:59.449 --> 00:57:05.659
I know when I was growing up and learning lifting on my own, I didn't like regular deadlifts.
00:57:05.659 --> 00:57:08.929
It just didn't feel good and I learned to do it over time.
00:57:09.048 --> 00:57:14.088
Like, and it was, I mean, I eventually deadlifted 4 0 5, not that's a lot, but for a skinny high jumper, it's okay.
00:57:14.599 --> 00:57:17.474
I idea I wasn't jumping very high when I did that, I'll tell you that much.
00:57:17.934 --> 00:57:22.938
But a sumo felt way better for me and I had no idea why.
00:57:22.938 --> 00:57:29.568
And eventually I almost came to like, think it was a bad idea because, oh, it's too wide of a foot placement, it's not athletic and blah, blah, blah.
00:57:29.568 --> 00:57:30.034
And then bill's like.
00:57:30.994 --> 00:57:37.744
Chris Wst maybe was one of those two, is like, well, it's how a neuro ISA, they, they're more ER or external rotation oriented.
00:57:37.744 --> 00:57:40.353
They need to be in that ER space to leverage it.
00:57:40.353 --> 00:57:40.804
And I was like, oh.
00:57:42.278 --> 00:57:42.858
So mm-hmm.
00:57:42.938 --> 00:57:42.949
So
00:57:43.204 --> 00:57:47.344
basically setting people up for their predispositions.
00:57:47.344 --> 00:57:53.344
If you're more externally rotated or more internally rotated, uh, like even like oblique presses, like,
00:57:53.554 --> 00:57:53.853
yep,
00:57:53.974 --> 00:57:54.903
are you pressing vertically?
00:57:54.903 --> 00:57:56.704
Are you pressing on an oblique axis?
00:57:57.364 --> 00:58:00.123
Um, those things have been really, really helpful.
00:58:00.123 --> 00:58:06.784
And then probably the latest, most recent is actually even reconsidering single leg exercises for people who just are.
00:58:07.338 --> 00:58:10.309
Horrendous at internal rotation, like some of my older clients.
00:58:10.608 --> 00:58:10.728
Mm-hmm.
00:58:10.969 --> 00:58:13.458
Whereas I used to think, oh, I'll just give'em single leg stuff.
00:58:13.489 --> 00:58:15.679
'cause they're not, you know, they're stiff or something.
00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:16.009
Or they, yep.
00:58:16.789 --> 00:58:22.248
And now I'm like, oh man, they don't have internal rotation to handle this, so I'll just do like a bilateral or staggered stance.
00:58:22.248 --> 00:58:22.639
And so,
00:58:22.643 --> 00:58:22.733
mm-hmm.
00:58:22.844 --> 00:58:23.134
Yeah,
00:58:23.329 --> 00:58:30.949
just the biggest two have really been what can you move into narrow, being better at straight down squatty squats or vertical torso stuff.
00:58:31.639 --> 00:58:35.659
And then wides being better at hips back stuff and just seeing that in action.
00:58:35.659 --> 00:58:47.329
And then the second one is looking at the knee, you know, knees in or out, internal external rotation, what am I giving and setting an athlete up for so that they're working in a space they gen genuinely own.
00:58:47.329 --> 00:58:47.418
Mm-hmm.
00:58:48.048 --> 00:58:49.849
And when you work in a space you own, it's all good.
00:58:49.849 --> 00:58:50.838
Like it's really, yeah.
00:58:50.929 --> 00:58:52.668
It's, it's just a game changer.
00:58:52.668 --> 00:59:04.248
And then, oh, the last thing I'll just say is the mar balance, like the balance discs, I actually gain appreciation for those'cause they kind of let your foot spin into whatever, uh, range you kind of own more.
00:59:04.639 --> 00:59:05.179
On its own.
00:59:05.208 --> 00:59:07.099
'cause Marv Marinovich had talked about the balance.
00:59:07.128 --> 00:59:12.978
If you, every time you have proper receptive stuff, like newer pushups or disc, your body gets to pick where it wants to go.
00:59:13.068 --> 00:59:20.298
And I'm like, ah, no, I understand why we're doing, you know, it's not so much, it is balanced, but it's also like the body getting a little wiggle room to choose.
00:59:20.298 --> 00:59:21.498
And I really appreciate that.
00:59:21.648 --> 00:59:22.668
Almost redefine the balance.
00:59:22.728 --> 00:59:30.978
So yeah, those, those are the main things I think I've gotten from, from Bill's model that are very easy, heuristics that can apply pretty simply.
00:59:30.978 --> 00:59:36.648
But then of course there's skill in actually going in the weight room, seeing those things and who has how much range and then what do you do with it.
00:59:37.818 --> 00:59:38.208
Yeah.
00:59:38.449 --> 00:59:47.748
With respect to like jumping, sprinting kind of in your wheelhouse, I feel like the, uh, some of the elite performances are gonna have compensatory strategies, right?
00:59:47.748 --> 00:59:50.148
We gotta give something up so we can get more force production.
00:59:50.148 --> 00:59:57.079
So were there any like aha moments with his model that kind of helped you with sprinting or jumping
00:59:57.739 --> 00:59:58.248
Yes.
00:59:58.398 --> 00:59:58.818
That thing.
00:59:58.818 --> 00:59:58.969
Yeah.
00:59:58.969 --> 00:59:59.778
That's a great question.
00:59:59.778 --> 01:00:01.699
I'm glad you brought that up because it was the whole.
01:00:02.313 --> 01:00:10.474
People whine about anterior tilt and treat it like it's terrible, but it's, Bill's talk about you have to put force down to the ground.
01:00:10.983 --> 01:00:16.264
Being anteriorly tilted or more oriented is a shortcut to putting force down on the ground.
01:00:16.264 --> 01:00:21.483
And you start to look at all these elite track athletes, it's like, wow, they're all like this.
01:00:21.798 --> 01:00:22.159
Mm-hmm.
01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:28.353
Even, uh, you know, it's funny, even in HighJump I've, I'd even thought like,'cause HighJump is a little different than sprinting.
01:00:28.353 --> 01:00:31.173
You don't necessarily need to go forward so much as up.
01:00:31.173 --> 01:00:34.713
And I've been thinking lately like maybe that publish should be more neutral and it probably should.
01:00:34.713 --> 01:00:43.954
But then I saw Stefan home with Stefan home video where he just, he, he didn't have his shirt on, so you could very clearly see his rib cage and the, the orientations and I'm like, he's crazy.
01:00:43.954 --> 01:00:46.443
Pushed forward scissor jumping six feet 11.
01:00:46.443 --> 01:00:49.864
Like, it's just, it's just so interesting how that happens.
01:00:49.864 --> 01:00:53.914
But I'll just, I'll actually circle this into something I think is very relevant for speed that mm-hmm.
01:00:54.034 --> 01:00:56.704
Might be a good you if we can't get into everything as speed.
01:00:56.704 --> 01:00:58.233
This is a nice crossing of worlds.
01:00:58.684 --> 01:01:01.773
It's something I like to do is, and I think it's funny.
01:01:02.148 --> 01:01:04.699
If you're a team sport athlete, who cares in some level, right?
01:01:04.699 --> 01:01:09.048
But if you're a track athlete, this is awesome, as I call it, squatty to tall transition.
01:01:09.228 --> 01:01:13.849
So what you do is you run like a hundred meters and you start pretty squatted if you can.
01:01:14.059 --> 01:01:17.329
But squatty not pushing squatted, like you kind of lift your knees.
01:01:17.329 --> 01:01:19.548
It, it's a squatter around that makes you lift your knees more essentially.
01:01:20.478 --> 01:01:28.728
And you slowly, as you go through the a hundred meters, start to come up taller, taller, taller, taller, until you're literally like just ticking your ground with your feet, like you're as tall as you can get.
01:01:28.728 --> 01:01:29.478
Mm-hmm.
01:01:29.719 --> 01:01:36.858
And for me, it's like a game because the game is what is internally rotating to put force down into the ground.
01:01:36.858 --> 01:01:45.923
As I transition in the beginning, it's more the thighs and the hip bones, which you actually don't really want in top end sprinting because mm-hmm.
01:01:46.728 --> 01:01:52.938
The femur and the tibia should kind of be orienting externally rotating to put to vol from a velocity perspective.
01:01:53.418 --> 01:01:53.509
Yep.
01:01:53.539 --> 01:01:56.554
And the ankle and the hip are the internally rotators.
01:01:56.809 --> 01:02:01.034
The hip is dumped forward or in anteriorly oriented to help put force outta the ground.
01:02:01.333 --> 01:02:05.539
And the ankle also internally, internally rotates to put force down the ground.
01:02:05.719 --> 01:02:06.228
Mm-hmm.
01:02:06.289 --> 01:02:11.449
And the taller you go, you start to feel really that ir just happening at the ankle.
01:02:11.449 --> 01:02:12.918
Just that tick, tick, tick, tick, tick.
01:02:13.489 --> 01:02:17.208
But there's a sweet spot because you eventually get too tall and you're just like grasping at the ground.
01:02:17.208 --> 01:02:18.409
You don't even get it anymore.
01:02:18.438 --> 01:02:26.298
It's just kind of like, ha, there's no, there's no, you go from ir force production down the ground through the ankle to, I can't even put force in the ground anymore.
01:02:26.838 --> 01:02:26.929
Yeah.
01:02:26.929 --> 01:02:28.849
This is, I'm actually running too tall now.
01:02:29.358 --> 01:02:35.989
And people like to make this polarized camps like, oh, do you run tall or swatted, or whatever it is.
01:02:35.989 --> 01:02:45.858
And it's like, look, you have to find the best hip height for you to put force into the ground with the hip and the ankle and do it effectively.
01:02:46.418 --> 01:02:48.454
And that's gonna be different for each person.
01:02:48.543 --> 01:02:51.304
There's also even different ways you use the shin as a lever and all that.
01:02:51.304 --> 01:02:51.454
But
01:02:51.844 --> 01:02:52.114
yeah,
01:02:52.324 --> 01:02:58.713
something I got from Bill too, that I use in sprinting and it's only more advanced clients like master.
01:02:58.713 --> 01:02:58.804
Sure.
01:02:58.804 --> 01:03:10.414
People have been on track for a long time that are, if I gave that to high schoolers they'd be like, uh, I might just have'em do it just to do it, but I'm probably not gonna tell'em like, Hey, find out when your ankle bone internally rotates.
01:03:10.414 --> 01:03:12.903
And I would just say, Hey, notice when you feel the fastest.
01:03:13.353 --> 01:03:13.893
Oh cool.
01:03:13.893 --> 01:03:15.003
That felt the fastest.
01:03:15.003 --> 01:03:17.554
Alright, well I'll notice that next time.
01:03:17.554 --> 01:03:22.923
And you know, it just,'cause I think queuing just can is it's always extreme and polarized.
01:03:22.923 --> 01:03:23.824
It's like, run tall.
01:03:23.824 --> 01:03:24.483
Well, how tall?
01:03:24.869 --> 01:03:25.159
Tall.
01:03:25.164 --> 01:03:25.384
Okay.
01:03:25.384 --> 01:03:25.983
Run squatted.
01:03:26.014 --> 01:03:27.724
How squatted lift your knee?
01:03:27.753 --> 01:03:28.384
How high?
01:03:28.384 --> 01:03:32.884
Like, it's just, there's never, it's, it's always an absolute, there's never any timing or nuance to it.
01:03:32.884 --> 01:03:35.884
So that's, and, and good athletes learn that themself.
01:03:35.943 --> 01:03:42.574
But then all this to say is Bill's model least gives me, as a learner, practitioner coach, a place to play.
01:03:42.978 --> 01:03:46.398
That also I know what's happening in the body from Al perspective.
01:03:47.389 --> 01:03:47.628
Yeah.
01:03:47.628 --> 01:03:51.889
That's been one of the, the big things is just helps clarify how I explain things.
01:03:51.889 --> 01:04:04.309
So I am a wide, ISA, so one of the things that I know when I'm sprinting on like top end is it might not be as tall as some of my narrows run because I need a longer time on the ground.
01:04:04.548 --> 01:04:04.728
Yeah.
01:04:04.909 --> 01:04:07.699
And I work to improve that, but I can definitely feel that.
01:04:08.148 --> 01:04:16.068
And, and on the high school man, the high, the note of the high school kids, I'm sure a lot of those kids, like, I feel like they've got deaf mute feet because of the shoes they wear.
01:04:16.068 --> 01:04:20.268
So it's like, if they were to take'em off, I'm like, man, I don't even know how you move on these biscuits.
01:04:20.268 --> 01:04:23.418
Like there's sure there, there's not a lot going on here.
01:04:24.438 --> 01:04:28.489
Um, one thing I, I want to kind of bridge to speed for just, just a second.
01:04:28.668 --> 01:04:32.179
Um, I wonder with,'cause I know you've talked about torque and speed.
01:04:32.719 --> 01:04:35.418
Um, I wonder how much of it is due to this.
01:04:36.018 --> 01:04:43.159
Aggressive anterior tilt that we're almost just kind of, that pelvis has to, has to rotate just to get some extension on that backside.
01:04:44.929 --> 01:04:47.719
Oh, I like, like a hip extension behind the body.
01:04:48.139 --> 01:04:48.378
Mm-hmm.
01:04:48.978 --> 01:04:49.639
Yeah, that too.
01:04:49.789 --> 01:04:50.599
Yeah, I would agree.
01:04:50.628 --> 01:04:56.509
And for a wide, I say as well, a wide, I say, doesn't have as much range behind the body for that knee.
01:04:56.539 --> 01:04:59.329
So I think there's a little bit of functional adaptation there.
01:04:59.509 --> 01:05:01.518
I mean, the question is always right, like, what's too much?
01:05:01.518 --> 01:05:02.239
Are you stuck in it?
01:05:02.239 --> 01:05:03.048
Can you get out of it?
01:05:03.108 --> 01:05:03.829
Blah, blah, blah.
01:05:03.829 --> 01:05:05.239
And I think there is that.
01:05:05.239 --> 01:05:09.409
I think also there's a lot of just timing, like just global timing and making the stride work for you.
01:05:09.409 --> 01:05:09.469
Yeah.
01:05:09.559 --> 01:05:15.438
I think that's actually the bigger one in my opinion, because why do all these people cranked an anterior til don't get hurt?
01:05:15.739 --> 01:05:17.688
Like yeah, it's, it's just timing.
01:05:17.688 --> 01:05:19.489
They just run with a rhythm and they run well.
01:05:19.489 --> 01:05:22.608
As soon as that rhythm breaks or they're stressed out, then it goes over the edge.
01:05:22.699 --> 01:05:24.588
But yeah, I think there's a lot to that.
01:05:25.278 --> 01:05:25.489
Yeah.
01:05:25.489 --> 01:05:28.759
Sometimes I feel like trying to chase neutrality too much.
01:05:28.759 --> 01:05:29.239
You just.
01:05:29.523 --> 01:05:31.559
You kind of unwind people and mm-hmm.
01:05:31.639 --> 01:05:35.014
You know, they just lose a lot of what, what makes them tick?
01:05:35.103 --> 01:05:35.193
Oh yeah.
01:05:36.393 --> 01:05:36.873
Yeah.
01:05:36.873 --> 01:05:44.373
If I was gonna mess with it, I would just have them do like, put your hands on your hip standing and just do like, you know, the little pelvic bowl rotations.
01:05:44.403 --> 01:05:44.494
Mm-hmm.
01:05:44.733 --> 01:05:51.153
And just maybe even cat cow standing because side to side, do some hula hoops, let go run and notice what happens.
01:05:51.934 --> 01:05:52.324
Cool.
01:05:52.324 --> 01:05:57.664
Like sometimes I think just that little mobilization and a little awareness can go a long way with that stuff.
01:05:57.693 --> 01:05:59.914
And it's like the body is smarter than we are.
01:06:00.454 --> 01:06:02.284
Uh, that's always one of my main heuristics.
01:06:02.284 --> 01:06:10.414
The body's smarter than I am, so I'm gonna give an athlete something, uh, athlete's body that's smarter than me, something to go with and they'll figure it out.
01:06:11.344 --> 01:06:12.393
Yeah, man.
01:06:12.393 --> 01:06:13.353
We've covered a lot of ground.
01:06:13.353 --> 01:06:15.034
So I wanna hit you with a few questions.
01:06:15.094 --> 01:06:16.054
Um, yeah, wrap this up.
01:06:16.054 --> 01:06:21.514
We're gonna have to do another podcast at some point'cause I still got a lot of questions I we didn't even get to, so we'll hit some quick ones.
01:06:21.994 --> 01:06:27.184
Um, but obviously, I mean, you've got a lot of guests, you've been diving into the biomechanics and bill stuff.
01:06:27.184 --> 01:06:29.074
What's, what's got your interest right now?
01:06:29.074 --> 01:06:30.514
What do you, you kind of diving into?
01:06:30.934 --> 01:06:37.713
Yeah, I think my main area I kind of mentioned with the games is, uh, it's, it's a few things.
01:06:37.833 --> 01:06:44.434
Um, it, it is the con continual integration of games and gamification with formal.
01:06:45.213 --> 01:06:47.074
Training qualities, like for example mm-hmm.
01:06:47.248 --> 01:06:54.304
My, we had our first high jump practice yesterday and it was essentially all gamified versions of the outputs I want to get.
01:06:55.083 --> 01:06:55.324
Oh, nice.
01:06:55.324 --> 01:07:05.469
Like, for example, it was, we didn't hi jump board bars so much, we would throw a tennis ball up in the air, have someone jump and try to catch it as high as they could and jump off both legs and do that, or throw it off the backboard and jump and catch.
01:07:05.469 --> 01:07:09.634
Like, I wanted to get my plys in with something that's task based and active.
01:07:10.023 --> 01:07:15.034
And we did some plys, we did, you know, skips and gallops like I mentioned, and we did some high jump, like 1, 2, 3 rhythm drills.
01:07:16.023 --> 01:07:25.293
But trying to find that balance between gamification and then formal outputs is an area I'm continually going into and then new ways to do and learn that.
01:07:25.864 --> 01:07:31.353
And then, um, something that's been more recent has been really getting just further in the rhythm.
01:07:31.833 --> 01:07:31.923
Mm-hmm.
01:07:32.164 --> 01:07:42.844
Um, and like I even mentioned with like high jumpers, like instead of just running the curve, find a partner and run and go step for step with them because so much of that execution is.
01:07:43.248 --> 01:07:45.768
Rhythm maintenance and the flow of it.
01:07:45.829 --> 01:07:45.889
Yeah.
01:07:46.338 --> 01:07:55.429
And so yeah, finding more ways to integrate rhythm into movement itself have been two that are, are pretty substantial on my radar right now.
01:07:55.878 --> 01:08:04.429
Um, I also do find myself periodically going back to, I will say I'm, I've been getting more into that, that's like the eco side, the ecological di dynamics.
01:08:04.518 --> 01:08:04.608
Mm-hmm.
01:08:04.849 --> 01:08:08.733
To them, the meathead side's actually been getting more into flywheels in eccentrics just because Oh
01:08:08.739 --> 01:08:09.018
yeah.
01:08:09.378 --> 01:08:14.869
I've been, I've, I dusted off my K box, got out of the basement and been using that especially for calf raises.
01:08:15.018 --> 01:08:27.588
And, and oh man, like, yeah, I do like calcan aversion and pronation and that's great, but it's like, unless I tie it with something that's like that constant, it's almost like an isokinetic, even more than an eccentric in my vein.
01:08:27.588 --> 01:08:28.338
It's just steady.
01:08:29.059 --> 01:08:30.439
Oh, it's so good for my Achilles.
01:08:30.439 --> 01:08:40.698
So I've been playing around with a lot more kBox and flywheel and, and kind of those more even Isokinetic on the, um, the VUL Ultra, which is like that wall based unit.
01:08:40.729 --> 01:08:42.168
Oh, I meant for like my elbow stuff.
01:08:42.904 --> 01:08:50.434
I've been thinking about layering the different contraction types like Tibit os, uh, into a training program as well.
01:08:50.974 --> 01:08:59.613
Um, so that's been my more meat headed end of things, but it's been really rewarding'cause it's like I could just paint over biomechanics and then, oh, I just did some iso kinetic car crawl felt better.
01:08:59.613 --> 01:09:01.173
So, uh, that was a win,
01:09:01.863 --> 01:09:02.134
man.
01:09:02.134 --> 01:09:03.694
I'm gonna have to come sit in on practice.
01:09:03.694 --> 01:09:08.314
And I was like, I was like, I had that vulture in my shopping cart on Black Friday.
01:09:08.314 --> 01:09:10.413
I was like, you just couldn't pull, I couldn't pull the trigger.
01:09:10.594 --> 01:09:11.583
It's so good.
01:09:11.583 --> 01:09:13.654
I actually, I'll tell you what, I just got a demo unit.
01:09:13.654 --> 01:09:14.493
I have to give it back.
01:09:14.493 --> 01:09:17.524
So I have to make, I have to decide if I wanna pull the trigger out a new one.
01:09:17.524 --> 01:09:18.304
I mean, I love it.
01:09:18.304 --> 01:09:21.123
It is literally the best, but it is a lot of points.
01:09:21.123 --> 01:09:21.274
So,
01:09:22.684 --> 01:09:23.283
yeah, I know.
01:09:23.854 --> 01:09:33.033
Okay, you already mentioned a few athletes, but like, when you talk about, you know, the rhythm, the timing, the, the intuition, who is like the athlete you look to?
01:09:33.033 --> 01:09:39.243
So like, if we're gonna go watch film, which I think coaches should do, who, who are the guys or girls?
01:09:39.484 --> 01:09:40.713
We need to be like looking up.
01:09:41.359 --> 01:09:47.988
Yeah, I, I like athletes the past a lot and maybe part of that is'cause I just don't watch sports as much as I used to.
01:09:48.019 --> 01:09:48.918
Just That's right.
01:09:48.923 --> 01:09:50.929
Part of it's just, it's just a f lot of things.
01:09:51.048 --> 01:09:52.158
Um, yeah.
01:09:52.158 --> 01:10:03.738
But I, I, I will say like I'd love watching, well, I'll just say this, I think Ronaldo is a really good person, a good case study because what I mentioned with like, everyone gets this coach, like we, we take strength training to the nth degree.
01:10:03.738 --> 01:10:08.838
We're gonna max out your speed training, we're gonna max out your change of direction and then go play your sport.
01:10:09.469 --> 01:10:15.833
Ronaldo is like the epitome of someone who kind of sucks at the technique of a 30, like, you know, like mm-hmm.
01:10:16.158 --> 01:10:17.479
A track 30, not very good.
01:10:17.479 --> 01:10:24.948
I'm sure if he grew up here in the States and he had a speak coach that the 40, you know, they would drink out his start, it'd be great and his standing vertical would probably be better.
01:10:25.698 --> 01:10:30.078
But it honestly doesn't matter for his game because he's so tuned to his environment.
01:10:30.078 --> 01:10:38.448
Like he has all the physical gifts inside of him already and he, his environment brings out that which is needed and not more, which is efficient.
01:10:38.448 --> 01:10:38.719
Right.
01:10:39.378 --> 01:10:41.359
If it's here, it's like, well, let's bring out everything.
01:10:41.359 --> 01:10:42.679
Let's get everything good.
01:10:43.248 --> 01:10:50.538
And I just think there's something to, I don't know, like, like just constantly seeking the environment to draw it out of you.
01:10:51.139 --> 01:10:53.059
And yeah, if you're do track, that's great.
01:10:53.059 --> 01:10:54.019
Like, I'm a track guy.
01:10:54.019 --> 01:10:55.248
Like, I, I think that's awesome.
01:10:55.248 --> 01:11:02.448
But I just think, um, I just think just to watch an elite mover and how they respond to their sport when na is just such a good one with his headers.
01:11:03.078 --> 01:11:08.538
Uh, and then I really, like, I was thinking a lot about like an Alan Iversson, uh, so I will say this caveat.
01:11:09.109 --> 01:11:17.238
You have people who are just the ultimate athlete and then like team players, role players, you know, like there's athletes who are way more of a team player.
01:11:17.238 --> 01:11:22.578
Alan Iversson, there's a famous quote of him or soundbite, he's like, practice what's practice?
01:11:22.578 --> 01:11:22.588
Mm-hmm.
01:11:22.673 --> 01:11:23.719
I don't need to go to practice.
01:11:23.719 --> 01:11:23.958
Like,
01:11:24.019 --> 01:11:24.349
yep.
01:11:24.498 --> 01:11:27.139
He was just so, he, he was such an athlete.
01:11:27.139 --> 01:11:29.779
He needed the highest competition to bring it out of me.
01:11:29.779 --> 01:11:31.698
He probably go to practice and be like, this is boring.
01:11:31.788 --> 01:11:31.998
You know?
01:11:32.359 --> 01:11:33.948
I mean, Alan Iverson was a star.
01:11:33.948 --> 01:11:37.519
He was a D one, one of the best quarterback prospects in the country.
01:11:37.939 --> 01:11:43.519
But then went to play basketball and I mean, it's just so, just crazy gift, crazy gifted, intuitive mover.
01:11:43.908 --> 01:11:44.418
And you can't
01:11:44.418 --> 01:11:45.168
Hated lifting.
01:11:45.588 --> 01:11:45.948
Yeah.
01:11:45.948 --> 01:11:46.099
Yeah.
01:11:46.099 --> 01:11:46.729
Hated lifting.
01:11:46.729 --> 01:11:50.118
Could run a four 40 mile and you can't teach any of this stuff, you know?
01:11:50.118 --> 01:11:50.238
No.
01:11:50.868 --> 01:12:09.198
And you know, again, this isn't to say don't lift weights and don't do this stuff, but it's just to say, and yeah, I mean, you have to be a certain amount of giftedness, but I'm sure the environment, like I mentioned, what he probably grew up in too, like being just around older kids, playing ball, playing football, foot, uh, flag football, speed, agility, things you can't get anywhere else, right?
01:12:09.198 --> 01:12:13.309
Like he was already a super gifted athlete and did that.
01:12:13.309 --> 01:12:23.479
And just, so to me, watching those athletes who are so good and to be that good, it takes it, it just takes challenging your environment over and over and over again.
01:12:24.003 --> 01:12:26.134
Um, so I really, I really like him.
01:12:26.344 --> 01:12:28.533
Um, I always like watching Bo Jackson, you know?
01:12:28.894 --> 01:12:29.134
Yeah.
01:12:29.134 --> 01:12:31.713
But they said Bo could bench 4 0 5, I believe it.
01:12:31.713 --> 01:12:33.783
And he probably, I bet he didn't even lift weights that much.
01:12:33.783 --> 01:12:34.984
He probably did, but not like a lot.
01:12:34.984 --> 01:12:35.583
I don't think he did.
01:12:35.583 --> 01:12:37.384
He probably wasn't living in the gym, just had it.
01:12:37.384 --> 01:12:39.453
It's just he's a specimen man.
01:12:39.453 --> 01:12:39.694
Yeah.
01:12:40.144 --> 01:12:40.578
It's all that was,
01:12:40.953 --> 01:12:44.854
I love just watching him like, like who no one runs up the wall anymore.
01:12:44.974 --> 01:12:46.264
Like, like, think about it.
01:12:46.264 --> 01:12:48.724
Like who in baseball runs up the wall to make a catch?
01:12:48.724 --> 01:12:49.173
Like he did.
01:12:49.173 --> 01:12:49.654
He did it.
01:12:49.654 --> 01:12:54.213
'cause his, his internal signal is like, what can I do with my environment?
01:12:54.453 --> 01:12:55.564
How can I play?
01:12:55.564 --> 01:12:57.453
He was playing with his space.
01:12:58.113 --> 01:12:59.314
We don't do that anymore.
01:12:59.854 --> 01:13:00.064
Mm-hmm.
01:13:00.069 --> 01:13:00.078
But
01:13:00.078 --> 01:13:02.463
I don't know, it's like, how can we get to the point where we do that?
01:13:02.524 --> 01:13:05.073
I think, you know, parkour school, he was jumping across ditches right.
01:13:05.073 --> 01:13:05.734
When he was little.
01:13:06.213 --> 01:13:09.543
Like, we don't, kids don't have the boredom and space to do that anymore.
01:13:09.573 --> 01:13:10.953
It's like, give them that space.
01:13:10.953 --> 01:13:13.144
Give them the world as my playground, you know?
01:13:13.144 --> 01:13:13.234
And
01:13:13.389 --> 01:13:17.974
I, I wonder if we're gonna see a, a two sport professional athlete again.
01:13:19.024 --> 01:13:19.743
Probably not.
01:13:20.043 --> 01:13:20.764
Probably not.
01:13:21.064 --> 01:13:22.413
Uh, I mean, you know.
01:13:23.014 --> 01:13:27.123
Some people have said, I do think the average level is higher to get in.
01:13:27.724 --> 01:13:27.873
Mm-hmm.
01:13:28.354 --> 01:13:30.033
But I don't know.
01:13:30.304 --> 01:13:30.453
Yeah.
01:13:30.453 --> 01:13:32.134
I probably not unfortunately.
01:13:34.203 --> 01:13:38.524
I mean, Bo Dion, I don't count Michael Jordan, but I heard this guy
01:13:38.524 --> 01:13:40.444
was pretty good at the end of his deal.
01:13:40.444 --> 01:13:41.314
Little baseball stint.
01:13:41.314 --> 01:13:42.304
I heard he was getting decent.
01:13:43.444 --> 01:13:43.533
Like,
01:13:43.533 --> 01:13:45.243
I mean, he had to be sufficient, right?
01:13:45.243 --> 01:13:45.333
Yeah.
01:13:45.333 --> 01:13:46.713
Like he's probably better than me.
01:13:46.953 --> 01:13:47.073
Yeah.
01:13:47.194 --> 01:13:47.283
You
01:13:47.283 --> 01:13:47.463
know?
01:13:47.463 --> 01:13:51.064
Or the average person, like a bad pro is still really good.
01:13:51.064 --> 01:13:55.623
Like, oh yeah, white, white, you know, white Mamba is like, he's gonna play anybody in one-on-one and beat him.
01:13:56.179 --> 01:13:59.238
Um, but he would always say, you know, I'm the 12th man in the nba.
01:13:59.238 --> 01:14:01.399
He's like, I'm closer to LeBron than you are to me.
01:14:01.698 --> 01:14:02.059
Yeah.
01:14:02.298 --> 01:14:04.189
Uh, which is wild to think about.
01:14:04.248 --> 01:14:05.118
Was that Bryan scale?
01:14:05.118 --> 01:14:05.599
Rinni?
01:14:05.988 --> 01:14:06.349
Yeah.
01:14:06.349 --> 01:14:06.378
He
01:14:06.618 --> 01:14:07.399
plays people.
01:14:07.399 --> 01:14:07.609
Yeah.
01:14:07.609 --> 01:14:08.088
Average people.
01:14:08.088 --> 01:14:08.809
That's hilarious.
01:14:09.033 --> 01:14:09.154
Yeah.
01:14:09.154 --> 01:14:09.634
That's so funny.
01:14:10.594 --> 01:14:12.288
I, I think it's fantastic.
01:14:12.288 --> 01:14:17.479
'cause I mean, I was just shocked, like how much he, he cooked guys who were, you know, D one.
01:14:17.748 --> 01:14:17.988
Oh yeah.
01:14:17.988 --> 01:14:20.569
And you're, you're like, they gotta be pretty close, right?
01:14:20.689 --> 01:14:21.259
No.
01:14:21.738 --> 01:14:22.038
Yeah.
01:14:22.099 --> 01:14:23.179
No, not even.
01:14:23.418 --> 01:14:23.809
Oh yeah.
01:14:23.988 --> 01:14:24.918
Oh yeah, yeah.
01:14:24.948 --> 01:14:25.309
For sure.
01:14:25.309 --> 01:14:28.634
I even, I would play pickup ball against the WNBA like all star.
01:14:28.934 --> 01:14:29.354
Mm-hmm.
01:14:29.448 --> 01:14:32.149
And she cooked me, man, like, she had so many moves.
01:14:32.149 --> 01:14:33.889
Like, I was like, I am lost.
01:14:33.889 --> 01:14:34.759
I cannot guard you.
01:14:34.819 --> 01:14:40.189
Like this is, is, I mean, and I, I just played high school varsity, you know, but still even that gap.
01:14:40.189 --> 01:14:40.969
It's crazy, man.
01:14:40.998 --> 01:14:41.208
Yeah,
01:14:41.269 --> 01:14:41.538
I know.
01:14:41.538 --> 01:14:47.479
There's people on, you know, the Twitters, they're like, oh, you know, eighth grade a a U team could beat a WNB team.
01:14:47.479 --> 01:14:48.649
I'm like, are you sure?
01:14:48.679 --> 01:14:51.259
Like, I don't, I don't know if I quite buy that.
01:14:51.769 --> 01:14:52.099
Yeah.
01:14:52.519 --> 01:14:52.729
Yeah.
01:14:52.729 --> 01:14:53.029
She
01:14:53.029 --> 01:14:53.713
was, man.
01:14:53.899 --> 01:14:54.918
Yeah, it was, it was crazy.
01:14:55.819 --> 01:14:56.149
All right, man.
01:14:56.149 --> 01:15:00.529
I got a, a quickie and then I'll let you, uh, kind of tell everybody where we can find out more about you.
01:15:00.529 --> 01:15:03.349
But you already gave me the one test, the, the squatty to tall run.
01:15:03.349 --> 01:15:14.838
Is there another test or experiment you like to run with the guys who are rigid lack, creativity, timing, rhythm, that kind of help them break out and and explore movement again?
01:15:15.543 --> 01:15:15.724
Yeah.
01:15:15.873 --> 01:15:19.564
Uh, just have'em skip and, and the first time just don't say anything because
01:15:19.594 --> 01:15:19.684
mm-hmm.
01:15:19.953 --> 01:15:24.634
It's really important that when someone skips, you learn everything about just letting'em do it.
01:15:25.203 --> 01:15:25.264
Yeah.
01:15:25.264 --> 01:15:30.844
A lot of times you'll see like they're, they're trying to do something like they thought a coach told them to do, like Super Mario.
01:15:30.844 --> 01:15:33.453
Like they drive their arm up and they drive their knee up.
01:15:33.453 --> 01:15:34.564
It's like, oh, this is skipping.
01:15:34.564 --> 01:15:35.673
It's like, actually it's not.
01:15:35.703 --> 01:15:41.134
That's, that's skipping when you totally missed the ground contact portion and now you're just trying to hit a position.
01:15:41.734 --> 01:15:44.224
Um, and they're really rigid and so, mm-hmm.
01:15:44.524 --> 01:15:52.144
But you could just start there and just unpack it, you know, I like, that's why I like, like lo knee skipping to start because it just attunes you to the timing of the ground and then
01:15:52.323 --> 01:15:52.413
mm-hmm.
01:15:52.654 --> 01:15:56.283
Maybe we'll do skipping and say, Hey, just have awareness of your arms, your attention.
01:15:56.283 --> 01:15:59.493
Maybe we'll exaggerate the error of attention, those kind of things.
01:15:59.493 --> 01:16:02.073
And that usually can iron a lot of things out.
01:16:02.073 --> 01:16:11.104
I do that a lot actually with, um, uh, I do mile and a half and four mile run training for tactical groups and they military types to be very, especially they rock a lot there.
01:16:11.253 --> 01:16:13.354
Yeah, pretty rigid through like the shoulders.
01:16:13.354 --> 01:16:16.474
And so that, uh, we'll do a lot of shoulder rolls for that too.
01:16:16.474 --> 01:16:22.113
But skipping is like a base of it because you and, and, uh, and even music, like skip to the music and
01:16:22.323 --> 01:16:22.564
Yep.
01:16:22.713 --> 01:16:27.154
Me had, that's like a kryptonite for a lot of meatheads, but they, once they get good at it, you know, they, they can make do
01:16:28.024 --> 01:16:28.533
No, that's great.
01:16:28.533 --> 01:16:29.823
I I, we got a football guy, man.
01:16:29.823 --> 01:16:31.804
He, he skips like an exclamation point.
01:16:31.804 --> 01:16:33.243
That's the, that's the only way I can describe it.
01:16:33.243 --> 01:16:33.304
Yeah.
01:16:33.304 --> 01:16:36.003
It's just very, it's very, uh, it's a loud skip.
01:16:36.003 --> 01:16:36.319
Yeah, it's, yeah.
01:16:36.363 --> 01:16:37.323
Very exaggerated.
01:16:37.444 --> 01:16:37.743
Mm-hmm.
01:16:38.493 --> 01:16:40.953
Um, but anyway, man, this was, this was awesome.
01:16:40.953 --> 01:16:41.913
I got a lot out of this.
01:16:41.944 --> 01:16:44.253
Um, and I, again, I appreciate your time coming on.
01:16:44.253 --> 01:16:45.543
It is so good to finally connect.
01:16:45.543 --> 01:16:46.054
I mean, we live.
01:16:46.519 --> 01:16:48.048
Driving distance from each other.
01:16:48.048 --> 01:16:48.109
Yeah.
01:16:48.109 --> 01:16:52.038
And you know, kids and life and everything else, it's, it's hard to connect.
01:16:52.038 --> 01:17:00.618
So if, um, if people wanna follow up, tell me where we can find you on Instagram X, the podcast, gimme the rundown.
01:17:01.128 --> 01:17:01.399
Sure.
01:17:01.519 --> 01:17:01.668
Yeah.
01:17:01.668 --> 01:17:06.708
It's all just life sports, uh, Twitter or X, sorry, X in Instagram.
01:17:06.708 --> 01:17:08.448
And then, uh, just live performance podcast.
01:17:09.439 --> 01:17:09.769
All right.
01:17:09.798 --> 01:17:11.298
I'll make sure I put that in the show notes, man.
01:17:11.298 --> 01:17:12.168
I appreciate your time.
01:17:12.198 --> 01:17:12.828
Thanks a lot.
01:17:13.099 --> 01:17:13.819
Yeah, thank you Ryan.
01:17:13.819 --> 01:17:14.538
Appreciate you having me.