Dick Spring

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Welcome to Aron Island Discs, a podcast series where we talk to Irish people from different walks of life as they reflect on their own journeys.
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Join me, Rosa McDermott, as we explore the many aspects of Irish District and what it means to each of our guests through life's ups and downs.
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Dick Spring, welcome to Iron Island Discs.
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Rosa, thank you very much.
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I'm glad to join you for a little discourse.
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Yeah.
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And have you is this your first time to Iron Island, or have you been there before?
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I've been there on three occasions, actually, going back as far as 1981.
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We had one child at the time, Aaron R.
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Eldis.
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He was about four months.
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He was born in May, and we thought he'd be you know a summer baby, but sure, we had to hide him from the sun for the first few months.
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But we went, we went over on their iron uh flight, a very quaint uh pilot.
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He said, I'm not sure which uh which uh which runway I use today at which terminal we're supposed to go into when we landed in the field.
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Yeah, and that was that was a lovely trip just in August weekend, and then a few years later we were on holidays in Connemara uh and Belly Keneally, yeah, and I took my Christie's parents, Walter and Marion Hutchison, out to the Iron Islands with two of our kids who were about six and eight at the time.
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And we got on a Jarvey to go out to the Dunangus, and of course the Jarvey heard the American accents, and I was in Musty.
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I had a big hat on and three glasses.
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Yeah, and you know, he uh spun a few stories all the way out to Dunangus, we were spinning it like it was you know, he for the American, amusing the Americans.
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Yeah.
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So anyway, we arrived at Dunangus, and as we were getting off the carriage, I took off my hat and my glasses, and I said to him, Shellum took a be toural, American, my punkani.
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Yeah, and he looked, he looked at me and he said, Well, tis too fain.
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Walter Gang.
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Yeah, he he to he got a laugh on it.
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He knew he was tricked when I had been listening to all the BS on the way out to Duningus.
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But uh great place, the Iron Island, I have to say.
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Christy and I got out to Inshmand then on another trip.
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Uh, and I just there's something lovely about the Iron Islands, the rocks, the fields.
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It's the wilderness, isn't it?
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The wildness, the barreness, the weather's fantastic on a bad day.
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I've never been there on a bad day, Nick, but on a good day is not.
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We've had the same, yeah.
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We went out by boat on the other two trips.
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So it's a lovely place.
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And you know, you I think you were asking, is there any other place of in the Dingah Peninsula, which I'm looking across at here in Triley Bay?
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Yeah, we have a great affinity with the uh Dingah Peninsula.
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My grandkids have this fascination about Tom Crean and about his adventures.
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And if we you know, even last week one was here from Scotland and we had to take we had to take him out to the South Pole Inn.
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Yeah, he wanted to see the South Pole Inn where Tom Crean, you know, spent his life after he returned from those amazing adventures.
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I mean it was on the TV recently.
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I watched I watched that as well.
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Yeah, it's actually incredible what they put themselves through.
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Absolutely.
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I mean, horrendous stuff, you know.
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And I uh I actually on one occasion we visited a little cottage out in uh Garlandur, halfway to uh Dingle, where he actually went and signed up for the British Navy.
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Wow.
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And I I said, and I there's I think there's a story that he actually uh told him he was 16 as opposed to he was only 15, and he had to be 16, but off he went and what an adventure, you know.
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The other the other fascinating part place down here, of course, is Skelly Michael.
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Yeah.
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And uh I took a Dutch foreign minister out there one day and he said he had an existential experience.
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So I've been trying to I've been trying to discover that ever since.
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But um I've never been there, I've seen him for a distance, I haven't climbed all those steps.
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Yeah.
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I had promised my my Kiwi grandchildren that we might climb it this summer when they come here, but we can't they can't, they're too young.
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Yeah, so I said we'll take them around and they can look at it and come back when they're slightly older.
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They can help the it's a phenomenal place.
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I mean, you do get that sense of prayer, you know, uh serenity.
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I mean, just to spend 400 years out there in the monks, it was quite an amazing achievement again, you know.
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But they did, and it's there.
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And I I I don't like its association with a certain modern phenomenon called Star Wars, and be that it may be never heard of Star Wars.
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No, no, no, no, we won't discuss that.
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May there's something be which you can go discuss it.
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And how do you describe yourself, Dick?
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And your passport, your to P we meet an elevator who don't know your hat's off.
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Retired company director, one or the other.
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I I feel too young to be fully retired, to be honest.
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Um and uh I I we were landing abroad one day and I was filling in the immigration or customs forum, and I just put down director.
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Yeah.
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And this lady beside me said, Oh my god, you're a film director.
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I said, Not quite, not quite.
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Yeah.
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But yeah, yeah, I still doing a bit of work.
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I mean, I enjoy being engaged and helping people do a lot of stuff quietly.
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Yeah.
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Uh love helping young youngsters get through education and stuff like that, you know.
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Um, very important.
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My father was a great believer in he left school at 14, and I actually saw the rule book one day, and he wasn't at school too many days.
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You know.
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And you're always destined to follow in your father's political footsteps, you think?
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Uh I think it was sort of uh from the age of about 14, I used to go out uh speaking publicly for my father outside churches.
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I had that uh clinic at I thought my father was Tom Crean, he was my hero, you know.
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Uh all-Ireland medals and managing to hold a seat for Labour in a quite a hostile territory at times for 38 years, you know, some achievements.
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But he was a great man, a great man, he was a great father.
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My both my parents were great to us actually.
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My my mother went to secondary school in Mount Saxville during the economic war, which we've never really figured out how they were able to do that, to get the scholarship.
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Yeah.
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And she would have loved to have done medicine, but uh, you know, they from a 50-acre farm in Lickham, County Kerry, which was really subsistence farming, yeah, there was no way she was going to go to university, so she became a psychiatric nurse in Killarney.
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And uh I often tell people the story that my parents actually met in a mental institution.
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My father was organizing the nurses into the Irish Transport and General Workers Union, which I thought was the only union in the country at the time because it dominated in Kerry anyway.
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Yeah.
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Went to a meeting in Killarney to organise the nurses and got talking to an Anna Lee from uh Lickna, from Garn Lagor and Lickna.
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It turned out that she was cycling home that day as well.
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So he said, Should we might as well cycle together?
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And by the time they got to Trinee, she said, my mother used to tell us he he pretended he owned every field Milton used.
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He hardly, I'd say he hardly owned the bicycle, he was on at the time, you know.
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But the rest is history, it was good.
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He inculcated that sense of society, the worker, labour that was always your grow, I'm good in your future.
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Yeah, it was.
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It was all about uh helping people to improve circumstances, and you know, the 50s were pretty grim, the 60s were grim.
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And we're we're probably the lucky generation, you know.
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We got all the opportunities in terms of education, boarding school, college, trinity, anything he wanted to do, the law library.
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That was a whole new, you know, opportunity.
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Yeah, and but my parents my mother was determined that uh all of us would get as much education as possible, and if anybody had an interest in politics, he'd have to have something that he could go back to.
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So the law library was the option there, you know.
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And where did Ross Gray come into the picture then, Dick?
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Ross Gray.
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Um did any of my family go there?
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No, uh I was the first.
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My older brother Arthur said he was passed away.
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He went to Claws to Easton in Ballyborney.
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The plan was that he was going to be a national school teacher.
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But by the time he was 18, he wanted to do medicine.
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So my poor my mother went down to the local bank and national bank and spoke to the bank manager.
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And this great concept, Irish concept of overdraft, was facilitated.
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And my brother went to UCC to medicine, and uh I think he might have been fulfilling my mother's dream as well.
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You know, became a great doctor, he was a super doctor to all my kids when he was around.
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We miss him.
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But uh yeah, with Ross Cray, they were two engineers in Kerry County Council, and both of them were sending their kids to Ross Cray.
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So my father got talking to them and they said, Yeah, the Cistercian monks, great people.
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And uh I remember the first day uh my father took me to Ross Cray to do the interest exam.
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And then we stopped outside this big mausoleum of a building.
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And I got out of the car and I was about to go up the steps, and I said, uh there was a monk standing there, and I said, My name is Richard Spring from Triley County Kerry, and he said, Are you anything to the footballer, Dan Spring?
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So I said I turned around and said, Would you like to meet him?
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Well now the the priest happened to be Father Andrew, who is an uncle of was an uncle of Brian Cowant.
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Yeah.
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So in a very small world we live in.
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There's a hurling coach, uh Andrew, and he's good, good but Cistercian College was a great experience, uh, and I'm still quite involved with the Cistercians.
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You may be aware they made a ruling recently that they would amalgamate three monasteries, uh, Mellory, Melifont, and Ross Cray, and thankfully they're all moving to Ross, have moved to Ross Cray actually, yeah, in recent months.
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So I hope that that would mean a survival of Our Lady of Silence, as the monastery is called now.
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Yeah.
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And the school is doing very well.
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No, I I know Colonel Deloney, yeah.
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Yeah, he's a very super guy.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I mean he's what you want in education, Ireland, you know, a very considerate guy and very ambitious for the school.
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And visionary in many ways.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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A visionary.
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And uh, you know, it's it's what I mean, I'm we're so pleased with Colin.
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Yeah.
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You know, we're and we're supporting him in every way we can.
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So yeah, good.
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He's good.
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Yeah.
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And he I think he's secure in the future of the college as well.
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Which is important in this day and age because you know absolutely the Congo thing, Dick, and you wonder where they sit in the new world looking forward, doing yeah, yeah.
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No, I I think that you know you just have to adjust to change circumstances.
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Yeah.
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Definitely open and receptive today.
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Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
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Yeah, everything nothing stays the same, everything changes, and you have to move with the times, you know.
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And that's where you got the the rugby thing, left the GAA behind too.
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For the first for the first two and a half years in Rothschild, I didn't play rugby.
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I thought it was a stupid game.
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They were wallowing around in the muck, yeah, and the scores were 3-0 or 6-3 in those days.
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And uh and I failed hurling.
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And by the my third year there, we were out of all the hurling competitions by about November.
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Yeah.
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So one of my good friends, Sean McCann, who afterwards became chief of staff of the Irish Army, said to me, Why don't you try the rugby?
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We uh we don't wish in the hurling, you go for a cold tap in in Mount Rat to wipe the cowdown off the legs after a match.
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And Sean McCann said to me, You know, we go to Dunnybrook, hot showers, and then we go to the Cassie's hotel for a bit of big feed.
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Oh, I see.
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So I went out, and uh, in the small world we live in, there was a guy called Mick Sherry playing it out half for the team, and the priest said to me, You're a better footballer than him, so he, Mick, you're going to the forwards.
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And I went to Junior and played, and we played three years rugby then when the rugby became an obsession for the next 15 years of my life.
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And you enjoyed that, yeah.
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Oh yeah, yeah.
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No, it's great camaraderie, and we great people.
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I see, I still bump into guys I played with, and uh there's great uh camaraderie there still.
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And and there's also great uh, I suppose, discipline, you know, in terms of getting out of bed in a Sunday morning for training on the rollie meets in the college park.
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You know, there were a lot of Sunday mornings you talked to ice about it.
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You had to be home by 11 in the morning to change for training, yeah.
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And you win the colours, you did.
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We won we had been beaten four years in a row, and we were getting a bit desperate.
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And uh I became captain and we went out and we beat uh CD, we beat them, I think, of like 14-6.
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Yeah.
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And I got the the most uh sincere punch I've ever received in my life from the one Nick Sherry.
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But no, I I deserved it because I think I was kicking Patty Boyle and reading up one of our guys on crack.
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And uh he lifted me off the ground with the punch.
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I never saw it coming.
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And the French referee had a real problem decision to make.
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Uh he could have put the two captains off.
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Nick was captain of UCD and I was captain of Trinity.
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But the French referee, whom I we believe had about 23 gin and tonics might be too very understanding man.
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Yeah.
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Luckily, luckily he didn't send me off because my mother was in the stand.
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She probably would have come down and slapped him under her umbrella.
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And uh we played on anyway.
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But the the program for that colors match had um Michael Sherry educated Cistercian College Ross Craig.
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Dick Spring attended Sister College Ross Gray.
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Yeah, very unfair, wasn't it?
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Was absolutely.
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Yeah.
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That was the first that was Donald's fault.
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Yeah, donald had him so motivated.
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I was sitting beside the promise that they actually the promised lines.
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Yeah, that's that lines, the historian of the title.
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I think he was a bit upset that the game became so physical.
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Yeah.
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I used to say to Donald, you're entitled to elegant violence.
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Did you understand that?
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Did Donald understand that?
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Donald was good to he gave he gave what he got.
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Oh, he did, yeah.
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You'd have to be forwards and those days.
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I mean, the poor second rows of the props used to get killed in the scrum in those days, and nobody ever did anything about it.
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But no, but as we had a huge hurrah with a scandal of Telfer being sent off and they couldn't.
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Oh, yeah, that was the first one before only one ever.
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And poor John, you know, in fairness.
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A real gentleman.
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Yeah, exactly.
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I believe it was totally out of character.
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Totally out of character.
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Yeah.
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You know.
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Anyway, it all started for me in Strand Road.
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Yeah.
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Um, house on the street, um, which my parents have rented for about 20 years at a point.
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And you are the oldest, aren't you?
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No, no, no.
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I'm number three, I'm number three out of six.
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So sadly, uh sadly, three of my siblings have passed away, Arthur, Miss K and Maid.
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Yeah.
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And there are only three of us left now, so I'm the major domo for Donald and Noel and the family.
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Yeah.
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So we were brought up in a quite a small house.
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And my mother was always inviting cousins in from the country who wants to go to school in Trelee.
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So you're you know, you're you're I said I ask our father, where did you sleep?
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He said, 'Cause it down the bed anyway.
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Across the bed.
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My father was one of 14.
00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:10.320
So I say the words when you think of the kids, my I think of my I see my grandkids nowadays, their own bedrooms, you know, and the comforts of life.
00:14:10.480 --> 00:14:17.679
And I mean, in my time, you know, it was shared, you shared beds and bedrooms, and but that was the way it was, and nobody was any worse off for it.
00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:18.159
Yeah.
00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:28.159
You know, and um and we all you know got our education started with the Mercy Convent in Trelee, and it was a great nun that started us all off, Sister Fabian.
00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:32.080
She was a starward of stalwart of education in Tralee.
00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:35.360
And she was very nice to the Springs because her surname was McCallestrum.
00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:35.679
Yeah.
00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:36.799
So she had to be careful.
00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:45.039
And uh not only did she teach all of my five siblings and myself, but my daughter Laura ended up in school with her many years later.
00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:53.600
And of course, when it came to the Christmas play, uh which they were having on a Wednesday, I couldn't attend on a Wednesday because I thought I had to save the world and all air at that time.
00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:57.759
But Sister Fabian said, asked Christy, she said, What day would Dick be home?
00:14:57.919 --> 00:14:59.840
And Christy said, Well, he's usually in Trilli on a Monday.
00:14:59.919 --> 00:15:02.000
So I said, Oh, we'll have the play again on a Monday.
00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:07.360
So I had to go and see the play at lunchtime on a Monday, especially put on for me.
00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:08.559
But she was a great nun, great.
00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:10.720
And they were great people in education and fairness.
00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:16.559
You know, people give out about the religious orders, but if we hadn't them in any way, no, we wouldn't have we wouldn't have hospitals without them, we wouldn't have schools without them.
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:18.000
You have to bear that in mind.
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:21.840
So people get on the wrong end of the stick and that because you wouldn't have any infrastructure.
00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:24.159
It's a bit it's a bit like the health services, you know.
00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:29.279
Yeah, 90% of it's a good story, uh, and unfortunately the some bad stories dominate.
00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:29.759
Yeah.
00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:32.720
But that's made the nature of the nature of life.
00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:35.279
Well, bad news always travels better, doesn't it?
00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:36.879
Well, yeah, good news doesn't sell.
00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:50.559
I mean, there was a survey done in, I think it was Rhode Island one time, and apparently the guy had to he they were they were improving the tax regime in Rhode Island, and they had publicized it ten times and nobody was aware of it.
00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:51.120
Right?
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:54.240
Whereas if you did it the other thing, they'd know it before you.
00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:56.559
But anyway, where's Christy from?
00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:58.879
Is she from or Christie is from Christy's from Virginia.
00:15:59.519 --> 00:15:59.759
USA.
00:16:00.159 --> 00:16:04.320
USA, and her background is uh her mother's background is German-Russian.
00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:04.639
Yeah.
00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:09.519
And uh luckily they got away from the Volga region in the 1880s and headed for Nebraska.
00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:11.279
And ended up in Colorado.
00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:11.759
Wow.
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:20.559
And my father was a mix of Scottish and Italian, and we I think we are we're close to discovering a small bit of Irish nine generations ago.
00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:20.879
Yeah.
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:23.519
A Protestant bishop in Castle Bar.
00:16:25.039 --> 00:16:27.120
So we have to do a bit more investigation there.
00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:27.440
Yeah.
00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:27.679
Yeah.
00:16:27.759 --> 00:16:32.559
But she's been she's been in Ireland now and more than and you know, not very proud of America these days, I can assure you.
00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:37.840
Yeah, we'll leave that later for later on in the uh when you talk about who you got filming battle button, it's depressing.
00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:39.759
But how long were you in New York?
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:40.639
Uh two years.
00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:41.120
Two years.
00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:42.240
Two years, two years.
00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:43.840
But different times, weren't they?
00:16:44.159 --> 00:16:45.200
Oh, absolutely, yeah.
00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:50.080
And uh, you know, once you were once you were Irish and you were white and you were working but nobody bothered you, you know.
00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:54.559
Most of our most of our customers in the bar were customers, we were cops anyway, you know.
00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:58.240
And uh they knew our status and they were very friendly, and that was it.
00:16:58.320 --> 00:16:59.759
But strange times everywhere, really.
00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:02.399
I did ten years in Boston in the 90s.
00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:03.360
All right.
00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:06.720
And now we go back now, it's very different, it's just not the same.
00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:18.480
Well, I nearly drowned in Boston one day when uh New York rugby club were playing Boston, and so there were pools of water on the pitch, and I got caught in the bottom of a rock, and I was stuck inside in the water.
00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:19.920
Luckily, they broke up the rock.
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:21.599
Uh it should have been a bit of a history.
00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:22.160
Yeah.
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:24.799
You were destined to come back then after that and your time.
00:17:25.200 --> 00:17:27.200
Yeah, we've been back, we came back to the politics.
00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:36.640
We came back to Dublin, lived in Dublin for a few years, uh, which I think was a smart move on my part because if we come straight back to Kerry, I'm not sure it would have worked.
00:17:36.880 --> 00:17:38.640
Um so we had to break it in, you know.
00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:39.039
Brilliant.
00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:41.599
But Dublin, we had a great we had a great few years in Dublin.
00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:44.240
I joined Lansown, I started practicing at the bar.
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:48.079
Christy worked uh with John of God's in uh Newtown Park Avenue.
00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:50.400
Some great some great friends there.
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:59.759
So we then came back down, made two good, three, three good years and one bad rugby year, and then two good years rugby and won the cup twice in a row in Lansow, and then we had it back down.
00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:09.519
I had one last year of rugby in Tralee, I captained the club, and then when I became a junior minister, I said, Oh, like I was 31, I could still I wanted to play rugby till I was 55, right?
00:18:09.599 --> 00:18:15.519
Yeah, and uh we were down in Skibbereen at the start of the season, and I was caught in a ruck.
00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:16.640
I was out half in Tralee.
00:18:16.720 --> 00:18:23.440
I was caught in a ruck, and I try not to be vulgar, but the Skibarine cleared the rather vulgar, saying, I have his head, I have the minister.
00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.200
And I came off the pitch that day and said to myself, I think it's over.
00:18:27.440 --> 00:18:28.000
Yeah.
00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:30.160
No, I read that through, and it makes sense.
00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:30.720
Yeah, yeah.
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:34.000
I mean, once they knew who you were, you we got your guy.
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:39.920
Yeah, I wouldn't mind, but one of the guys who was trying to beat me up was the son of Michael Pat Murphy, deliver TV Corps on the West.
00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:42.160
No alliance is there.
00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:43.279
No, no, no.
00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:46.319
And you're when you would do into politics today.
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:52.640
Um I would have great difficulty uh recommending it, unfortunately.
00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:54.640
Social media is destroying politics.
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:56.319
You reckon that's part of it.
00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:57.599
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:04.559
I mean, it's very difficult, uh, and I don't I don't envy the task of being involved in politics on a day-to-day basis.
00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:08.480
I mean, in it's changed so much, like from my father's time, even from my time.
00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:11.599
In my father's time, there there was respect.
00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:14.319
There was great respect for all the politicians.
00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:19.279
You know, they were revered to an extent, uh, but not so not not anymore.
00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:22.640
You know, and it's a tough, it's a tough challenge now, it really is.
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:25.519
And you'd have to worry for the future of society.
00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:32.319
I mean, when when we were growing up in Kerry, I think to but to my best of my memory, there was one murder in my childhood.
00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:34.880
The famous Maurice Moore, which John B.
00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:36.640
Keane went on to write the field about.
00:19:36.799 --> 00:19:37.039
Yeah.
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:45.599
And that was, you know, but now every morning, practically every morning now, it's a body found in Kildare, a body found in Carrie, whatever.
00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:55.279
Uh violence has become the order of the day, the norm, knives and guns even, and the criminality, the gangs who've taken over parts of Dublin.
00:19:55.359 --> 00:20:01.359
Uh this is really threatening for society and something we have to take head on, you know, the challenge.
00:20:01.680 --> 00:20:06.799
And if something came to you, your nephew tried, you know, the Yeah, he was in it all for one term.
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:08.880
And do was he discouraged?
00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:13.680
Regardless of holding your seat down, you always at the end you know the end is gonna come at some point.
00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:14.720
Well, yeah, yeah.
00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:19.920
The other thing is that um it's it's really tough on families, you know.
00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:30.400
I in the busy days, one one one day I happened to go out to my garage, my old house, and I saw that somebody had obviously gone up in the attic and come down through one of the panels, right?
00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:32.160
There was a panel that they'd stood on.
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:32.559
Yeah.
00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:37.039
So at the dinner that night I said to the kids, I said, Guys, I want to know who did it.
00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:38.640
We always did what that?
00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:41.119
And I said, Who went up in the attic and came down through the panel?
00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:43.759
And they said, That happened two years ago.
00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:46.240
I was unaware of, you know.
00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:47.440
Shay.
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:58.480
Um and when when we went back into government in '92, um, I promised myself and I promised Christy that I would not go back on the merry-go-round that I'd been on between 82 and 87.
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:00.960
Which was you were going seven days a week.
00:21:01.039 --> 00:21:01.279
Yeah.
00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:08.079
You know, and I promised her I would slow it down and try and keep normal hours and try and save time for the family.
00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:14.160
About two weeks later, we were having dinner, and whatever happened, Christy put down the knife and fork and said, Stop it.
00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:15.440
And I said, Stop what?
00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.079
And she said, You're treating us like civil servants.
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:20.960
I was flying, you know.
00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:24.480
And would she call you Richard in those moments or Dick?
00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:25.759
Uh no, Dick, Dick.
00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:28.799
You know, big big jokes.
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:34.559
My mother, my mother's friends in Strand Road, where we were brought up, would still call me Richard even till you know a few years ago.
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:36.319
They never got over the change.
00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:36.640
Yeah.
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:38.799
I was Richard and it's not a good thing.
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:43.200
But isn't it isn't it sad the public life, the commitment?
00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:49.920
I mean, you look back at your achievements, the ups and the downs, you've had a fair share in the political world, the good things and the bad things.
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:55.839
But you must reflect on the overall uh positively, uh what you brought people to do.
00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:59.759
Yeah, I I you know, if you're as a matter of judgment, I would say.
00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:03.680
You know, we did we improve people's lives substantially.
00:22:03.759 --> 00:22:05.279
We did a lot of social good.
00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:10.880
And you know, the the test in life, as somebody said to me once, is can you leave a place better than when you found it?
00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:17.200
And if you were to ask me, I would say personally, I was quite satisfied with my with my watch and what was achieved.
00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:19.200
There's a lot of cheat in Kerry, a lot of cheat in Ireland.
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:20.480
We made good progress.
00:22:20.720 --> 00:22:33.680
We're 40 years now from the Anglo-Irish Agreement, 1985, which was the real catalyst and opened the door for the 1998 uh agreement and the peace in Northern Ireland.
00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:38.480
So, you know, if you were to ask me when I why do you go into politics, I said there were two reasons I was going to politics.
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:41.440
One was to improve people's lives and provide jobs.
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.200
And the second one was could we do something about peace in Ireland?
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:51.200
They were my they were my two big motivators, and I'd like to think that I get a pass mark on both.
00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:52.400
I think you would.
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.200
I mean, you know, and the springtide, okay.
00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:59.759
You had the power then to do things which uh did change the place?
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:00.640
Absolutely.
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:06.880
I mean, you know, the the nineties uh government, both governments that we were in the nineties were really the start of the Celtic Tiger.
00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:11.759
But uh it shouldn't have been allowed to get as boomy or boomier as it did.
00:23:13.039 --> 00:23:13.599
Unfortunately.
00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:15.599
Yeah, well, you can say the same again.
00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:17.920
My priorities on housing and stuff need to be addressed.
00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:19.599
Well, that's that's the real challenge.
00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:25.599
And uh I'm actually working with some people at the moment looking at the housing area because it's one very close to my heart.
00:23:25.759 --> 00:23:34.319
I think that if young people don't see a way of getting housing, it's the one thing that Irish people are very attached to, probably because of our history.
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:36.799
And uh, you know, it should be affordable.
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:52.079
Personally, I'd like to see them appointing a housing thar and give them huge powers uh to get stuff done, because I was listening to somebody on the radio two days ago saying if it would be five years to deliver a house in Ireland at the moment, which is absolutely crazy.
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.960
You know, you should be delivering a house in six months from planning to building it.
00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:02.640
And you you know, it's very dispiriting for young people, you know, and it's very spoken about a lot at the moment.
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:05.839
You know, if you're in your late twenties, thirties, still living with your parents, you shouldn't have to be able to.
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:12.559
Yeah, but a daughter has just gone to Australia, and you know he can't fold her because there's a lack of well, she won't be buying a house in the buying a house.
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:18.480
Well, not really exactly, but there's no hope here to really we save the money for a purpose.
00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:24.240
Well, this is the yeah, and we've got to personally I would get the local authorities back involved again.
00:24:24.319 --> 00:24:30.480
Uh they have a lot of land um and get them to put their land on the market, even if it drops the price of everything.
00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.839
If the value of my house drops by 20%, does it matter?
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:34.400
No.
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:34.799
Yeah.
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:38.480
But we've got to get the housing accessible to young people.
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:45.200
I mean, the fact that people who are, you know, I'm reading something recently, somebody on a hundred grand can't get a mortgage.
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:45.680
Yeah.
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:47.279
I mean that's that's madness.
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:48.160
Absolute madness.
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:51.359
And we've got we've got to, I mean, we're not, you know, we're not a stupid race.
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:51.680
Yeah.
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:59.200
We should be able to find solutions, and I just hope that we I think we've done too much dabbling in the last few years, the various schemes, the add-on schemes.
00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:00.400
They are there too many.
00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:05.599
We need to just uh get the market, flood the market with property and get people building again.
00:25:05.680 --> 00:25:07.519
And and get the local authorities involved.
00:25:07.839 --> 00:25:08.559
Involved, yeah.
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:09.759
Give people hope.
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:10.880
Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:11.920
You have to have hope.
00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:17.599
And being Irish abroad, Dick, and being Irish here, are they similar things or very different?
00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:21.359
Uh I I think you know, they're probably different.
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:24.480
Uh and also when you say abroad, it would depend on where you are.
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:27.599
Yeah, so in terms of UK and America between the U.S.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:34.319
In the UK, I mean I I went over to the UK the night before I landed in Houston Station the morning after the Birmingham bombs.
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:34.640
Yeah.
00:25:34.799 --> 00:25:35.119
Right?
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:37.759
You were not we were not popular in the UK at that time.
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.319
I mean a very grim time, you kept your head down.
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:40.640
Yeah.
00:25:40.799 --> 00:25:53.920
I went out to play for London Irish in Camberley, and the abuse we got from the sidelines, you know, and the irony is that they wouldn't they wouldn't be anybody in London Irish who would have any time for the IRA or what the IRA were doing.
00:25:54.079 --> 00:25:54.319
Correct.
00:25:54.480 --> 00:26:00.960
But yet because we had green jerseys on and we were Irish and dogs abused from guys drinking beer outside the clubhouse in Canberra.
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:01.839
They were forgetting.
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:05.359
And then, you know, a different situation completely when you go to the States.
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:05.759
Yeah.
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:11.839
You know, where we're all obviously always very welcome and great respect for the Irish and great connections with the Irish.
00:26:12.160 --> 00:26:15.519
Again, that's it's a different story now, you know, in the States.
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:22.319
But people used to people they heard I was Irish, they all, you know, you get, you know, are you a supporter of the freedom fighters?
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:24.640
Uh can you tell us a bit about Irish history?
00:26:24.799 --> 00:26:28.400
And I used to say, well, I can go back to 1169.
00:26:28.799 --> 00:26:33.359
Where it started with Norman invasion, and of course they lose interest straight away, you know.
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:41.759
But you know, we Irishness is a very wordy idea, and uh, but historically it's a very complex and complicated one, you know.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:53.759
I mean, our family came from Labanham and Suffolk in 1582 to Castlevain, but uh we made a very quick decision or our ancestors that they'd become very Irish and they they took the wrong side in the Devon Wars.
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:58.480
And uh we became small farmers rather than land, big landowners after that.
00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:04.319
And what an amazing part of history is how our antecedent didn't lose his head after the devil.
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:09.200
He was actually taken up to Limerick for cross-examination, expected to be executed.
00:27:09.440 --> 00:27:14.720
But for some reason, they said to him, Go home, you you know, and you made a mistake and don't do it again.
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:19.359
So uh then that led to the Spring family surviving, thankfully.
00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:22.720
And as resilience, you think something very Irish in that sense?
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:23.519
Ah, yeah.
00:27:23.599 --> 00:27:38.319
The resilience is uh, you know, it's probably a historical concept as well, because you know, when you think of the history of Ireland, very tough history, um repression, you know, and the Ireland had to fight out of that.
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:46.000
You know, the when you think of the penal laws and the fact that Irish Catholics were deprived of everything up to Daniel O'Connell's time.
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:54.559
And uh it was an impoverished state, really, uh, despite the efforts of the various O'Neill's and O'Donnell's and gone through history.
00:27:54.799 --> 00:28:03.039
And uh I think the Irish people just developed this resilience, uh, which you know has turned the state around and made us into kind of a very prosperous state.
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:19.039
Uh, you know, I mean, before we joined the EEC, we we the the um GNT of Britain and the income per capita was much higher than Ireland, and you know, we just took off and passed them out, and hopefully the difficulties at the moment that we're facing with the tariffs won't change that.
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:19.519
Yeah.
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:25.119
So we've solved one side of the equation, but unfortunately the other side is the housing side, and that's the one that needs to be addressed.
00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.039
And being Irish is important to you.
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:29.920
It is, it is, it's very important, actually, yeah.
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:38.559
And um I mean you haven't been so for foreign affairs, so you have to go around and do the official bit, but deep down you have that understanding of where we are in the world.
00:28:38.960 --> 00:28:39.920
Absolutely, yeah.
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:50.319
And uh I I was hoping that we would develop, you know, from we have to have an Irish identity which is inclusive and respects all the identities and traditions on the island.
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:52.799
And I think we're we're a bit we're a long way away from that.
00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:58.160
I don't think people understand that we we've got to uh go a long way in that to in to achieve that.
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:12.400
But also I was hoping that we would be developing more of a European identity, you know, as as part of I'm a I'm a great believer in the European Union, even though it's probably moved too fast in some instances uh to bring in countries.
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:15.839
Um, but obviously Brexit has put a scupper on that.
00:29:16.319 --> 00:29:20.559
And uh, if you were to ask me, one of the worst things to happen in my lifetime is Brexit.
00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:21.039
Correct.
00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:28.799
Yeah, it's changed the whole agenda, even though, in fairness to uh Keir Star Abstarmer, I think he's actually realizing that he needs to be closer to Europe.
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:29.440
Yeah.
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:35.839
And uh, you know, in this in this geopolitical world we live in, we need a strong Europe to defend ourselves.
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:36.400
Yeah.
00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:41.599
You know, not a a broken up Europe, and Britain, obviously, from a defense point of view, is very important to Europe.
00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.200
And would you be optimistic overall about the where the world stands down?
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:46.799
I have to be optimistic.
00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:49.119
You know, people generally are good.
00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:57.359
I mean, I I I don't understand the war in in Ukraine, you know, it's also a very complicated history.
00:29:57.519 --> 00:30:08.480
I mean, Ukraine, Russia, uh, Lithuania, all those countries, Poland, you read about their histories, they were all intermingled at one time, and Ukraine was part of Greater Russia.
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:11.200
Very complex, but hopefully it will end.
00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:14.319
I mean, wars ultimately solve nothing.
00:30:14.559 --> 00:30:33.359
And uh I would I would I just wish that the United Nations was stronger and would be able to intervene faster in these situations and stop the wars, you know, and let the Chinese do what they want, let the Russians do what they want in terms of their own nation, let Europeans do for Europe and let the Americans, you know, this this make America great again just makes me sick, to be honest.
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:36.960
It's so daft and so unrealistic.
00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:37.440
Right.
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:38.960
So simplistic.
00:30:39.279 --> 00:30:41.759
It's so simple simplistic verging on stupid.
00:30:41.839 --> 00:30:42.240
Yeah.
00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:58.319
You know, and uh and I like America, I like Americans, we have great friends and family, but uh you know, you how do you how can you negotiate with a guy who you know he says one day that uh dictator?
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:01.119
Dictator dictator, and the next day he's asked about me.
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:02.160
He said, Did I say that?
00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:02.559
Yeah.
00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:03.839
Well you can't do business on that.
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:06.160
No, it's it's boring and childish at times.
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:07.200
Childish, yeah.
00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:08.640
Absolutely, absolutely.
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:17.440
And in terms of your toughest moments, it was the loss of your sister, Dick, or you know, how things you had to overcome, was it a sporting thing?
00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:25.519
Was it uh my biggest adverse thing in my life was on the way to Dublin on the 15th of December 1981.
00:31:25.680 --> 00:31:31.839
I was I left early because I wanted to go to the four courts because one of the courthouses had been burnt and there was a fire.
00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:34.480
And one of my colleagues asked me, would I go down there?
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:40.559
I was justice at the time, so my presence there might speed up the OPW to repair it, and on the way to Dublin.
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:45.279
We turned on the radio in the car at half past six, which was the start of RT at that time.
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:48.720
And they said there's a bit of frost around Port Leash.
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:52.160
So I said to the driver it'll be well gone by the time we get to Port Leash.
00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:52.799
It was.
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:54.960
I didn't get to Port Leash for two days later.
00:31:55.279 --> 00:31:55.599
Wow.
00:31:55.839 --> 00:32:05.519
We had a very bad car crash in Mina, and people lost their one man sadly lost his life, and three others myself included, and my driver are seriously injured.
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:09.279
And that put a challenge for everything ever after.
00:32:09.920 --> 00:32:16.880
Challenging, difficult, and um you know, something that you you you you just see it happening again and again.
00:32:17.039 --> 00:32:22.559
And I I feel very sorry for people caught up again this morning, another young teenager came in a road crash.
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.519
But the roads are dangerous these days.
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:28.000
And does that still rattle around in your head?
00:32:28.799 --> 00:32:29.599
It does, it does, yeah.
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:37.200
Yeah, it's an experience that well, I was real the first thing was I was really lucky to get out of it alive and very close to going.
00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:46.319
Uh and uh thanks to the great work by Frank Dowling, orthopedic surgeon in the uh hospital opposite Houston Station.
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:47.359
Stevens.
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:47.839
Dr.
00:32:48.000 --> 00:32:48.880
Stevens, yeah, yeah.
00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:51.200
And uh he put me together again.
00:32:51.680 --> 00:33:01.279
My back was completely shattered, my lower back, and thankfully he put me together and and thanks to a few interventions since then I've been able to live reasonably, you know, give or take the ate sometimes.
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:06.319
Um reason my normal life, and but ever grateful, you know, when you come through an experience like that.
00:33:06.640 --> 00:33:11.039
But you still carry the the memories, the guilt, well, absolutely, the negatives, yeah.
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:12.960
The mind is a funny thing, isn't it?
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:14.000
Oh yeah, yeah.
00:33:14.319 --> 00:33:16.480
Now physically your back still gives you trouble.
00:33:16.720 --> 00:33:17.119
It does.
00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:17.519
It does.
00:33:17.759 --> 00:33:23.200
I was with my consultant taught uh rheumatic rheumatologists in the Bonsa course in fleet two days ago.
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:27.759
And we're still trying to find the magic drug to feel the pain.
00:33:27.920 --> 00:33:32.000
So like I don't I've been I they're experimenting with me for the last two or three years.
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:36.720
Um and I'll keep, you know, I you have to be optimistic in a lovely situation.
00:33:36.799 --> 00:33:45.200
I have nine great grandchildren and uh I want to spend time with them, and uh we'll have them all in Ireland, we'll have them all together in the summer.
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:46.400
It'll be great fun.
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:56.400
Yeah, but uh any any sports player will tell you the beauty of being to do that, that your knees, your hips, your toes, your it's in itself is a miracle.
00:33:56.480 --> 00:34:01.519
You don't have to have an accent to that, just uh surviving those injuries from soccer, particularly.
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:05.920
Yeah, but uh the grandchildren, you know, when they want to play the soccer around you.
00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:10.559
I have to explain to the guys I'm 74, not 24, you know.
00:34:10.960 --> 00:34:12.639
They don't take that into account, they don't care.
00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:14.719
Absolutely not, they they run rings around.
00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.519
They're great.
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:18.559
We have one guy from Scotland, he'd run, he'd run forever.
00:34:19.440 --> 00:34:22.159
And the highs would they be political moments?
00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:23.840
They're not you know, I suppose.
00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:28.000
Oh, is it's is politics contextualized into a box for you of the only party.
00:34:28.880 --> 00:34:49.360
Well, it it you have to in a sense, you know, and uh it was a it was a great, you know, I feel very privileged to have had the opportunity to represent Kerry first for 22 years and then to be, you know, uh when I when I was elected first, my father was in the doll for 38 years, and he was a junior minister, as they used to call them, a parliamentary secretary in those days for about a year.
00:34:49.519 --> 00:34:57.280
And um as a Labour Rural TD, I would say if I ever get into government to be privileged, you know, you know, if you got you're thinking in the Labour Party, you might get one shot in it.
00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:57.519
Yeah.
00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:16.400
Well, it turned out I got two, and uh, you know, I feel very privileged for having 10 years in government and and working with my fellow politicians, you know, as I'm driven to, you know, and politicians get criticism, but the fair I think 90% of politicians want to do things for their country, for their people in a genuine way.
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:18.559
But they always attract criticism regardless.
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:22.000
But you're right, the workload that we unseen most times.
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:22.719
Well, absolutely.
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:28.480
Oh, I used to get criticized for the go using the government chest, you know.
00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:31.199
And people say to me, I remember that now, yeah.
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:32.800
Yeah, what was your busiest day?
00:35:33.039 --> 00:35:45.119
My busiest day was I had my breakfast in Sarajevo, yeah, I had my lunch in Zagreb, I had my dinner with a tyrant called Milosevic in Belgrade, and I went to bed in Athens.
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:45.920
Right?
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:48.079
Try that, try doing that in 150.
00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:48.719
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:51.119
You'd be still travelling.
00:35:51.280 --> 00:35:52.320
I'd be still travelling.
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:52.559
Yeah.
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:58.239
And the I was the golf with the uh the former President Clinton, uh highlight.
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:01.519
Do you both play mulligans or was it all kosher?
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:06.639
Ah, it was it was that became a kind of a strange game of golf, to be honest.
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:16.719
I you know, I he he was to play with me on the first trip to Ireland, but uh he they were sending troops to Bosnia, so it would have been very inappropriate for him to meet on a golf course today.
00:36:17.119 --> 00:36:20.719
Troops are leaving Frankfurt for Bosnia, so that was cancelled.
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:25.679
Gene Kennedy Smith came in to me about two days before he arrived, and I knew by our face.
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:27.840
I said, Okay, we can play some other time.
00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:31.440
So um we got into Valley Boying eventually, which was great.
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:37.599
Um, the only thing, of course, that they never I don't think they've ever forgiven me in my own club here in Treley as well, for not bringing him to Trilee.
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:42.239
I was hoping to do that, but I don't think Bill Centre would play golf in Ireland again, unfortunately.
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:45.920
Yeah, but uh it was huge, and the whole security was huge.
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:51.039
Um and uh it was meant to be a four-ball, but for some reason it became a five-ball.
00:36:52.559 --> 00:36:53.679
Christy O'Connor Sr.
00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:55.119
became the kind of consultant.
00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:56.239
Yeah, and great fun.
00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:58.800
I love Christy, great man, great man to tell a story.
00:36:59.039 --> 00:36:59.519
He was, yeah.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:04.000
But um originally um So it was you, Bill, and who else?
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:07.119
It was meant to be Tom Watson, and I used to play with Christy O'Connor.
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:07.440
All right.
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:12.159
That was the original four-ball, which would have been sensational, but that got lost in the in the haze.
00:37:12.239 --> 00:37:12.559
Yeah.
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:19.679
And um I said to Brian McCarthy, the captain of the club at the time, I said, Brian, just keep the head down now and we'll get you playing golf for the president of America.
00:37:19.760 --> 00:37:21.679
Don't say don't say anything to anybody.
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:28.719
And uh, of course, Fina Fall weren't going to let me walk down the first February Belly Bunyan with the sentence without a Fina Fall present.
00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:32.880
And Charlie McCready, who's a good friend of mine, Charlie was uh played with us as well.
00:37:33.039 --> 00:37:33.440
Yeah.
00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:48.719
And um, but it was uh a few days before the actual uh game, one of the Americans walked in to the then secretary of the club, the late Jim McKenna, and he said to Jim, You gotta bounce the captain, right?
00:37:48.960 --> 00:37:50.239
You gotta bounce the captain.
00:37:50.400 --> 00:37:55.519
And Jim McKenna apparently said to him, This is a private club, we can bounce the president.
00:37:57.119 --> 00:38:05.119
And I got called in to sort out the row, and I was trying to maintain my relationship with Bally Bunyan, maintain my relationship with Clinton, so we had a fireball.
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:10.880
So you're good you're good at these alliances, you're good at these coalitions, it's in the blood.
00:38:11.119 --> 00:38:24.639
Oh well, I was I was in a meeting in the cabinet room in South Africa one day with um the clerk and his foreign minister, and he said, uh he said an X, and he said, I understand that you're an expert on coalitions.
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:25.920
Can you explain?
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:29.039
It was just before they was in their first coalition with the Mandela.
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:29.920
Yeah, Mandela.
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:30.400
Yeah.
00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:31.840
And that was Fexo, right?
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:34.079
You're talking about the same FESCO, Brian, aren't you?
00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:34.880
Sorry?
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:36.559
Is that Fexco Brian McCarty?
00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:36.880
Was it?
00:38:37.039 --> 00:38:37.840
No, no, no, no, no.
00:38:38.159 --> 00:38:38.800
Different Brian McCarty.
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:43.920
Brian McCarty, a lovely man, school teacher from Barry Longford, and played a lot of football, Shan Rangers.
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:44.480
Great guy.
00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:45.440
Yeah, great guy.
00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:50.960
And the other Brian McCarty you mentioned, Fexco, of course, is uh one of Kerry's finest you know more in Cork.
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:53.119
It's entrepreneurs and business developers.
00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:55.840
He's done so much for Kerry, the amazing man.
00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:00.159
No, I remember when that started up in the 90s, and someone said this is what it does.
00:39:00.239 --> 00:39:01.599
Yeah, this is what it does.
00:39:01.760 --> 00:39:03.920
Uh I said, geez, that won't go anywhere.
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:05.039
And look what I know.
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:11.599
Well, you know, they they they survived in a caravan in Brian, the back of Brian's house for the first few years.
00:39:11.679 --> 00:39:11.840
Yeah.
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:19.119
And of course, when Kerry Group was started, because Dennis Brosnan and his two guys were in a caravan over and stole it became the model in Kerry.
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:21.599
If you want to have a successful business, start the caravan.
00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:34.079
You must be proud when you look at things like Kerry Airport and the progress made and the World Atlantic way and how Kerry has become not the remote place in five, six hours by car.
00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:50.159
I just regret that uh we didn't do more in terms of the their bypass and bypassing Newcastle West Naby Feen to open up the kingdom completely because but that you know, they're all all those things there have started, and the other two are in the plan by the National T Roads Authority.
00:39:50.320 --> 00:39:52.159
So I don't know if they'll be done.
00:39:52.239 --> 00:39:56.639
I don't know if I'll be travelling to Dublin fully on motorway, but somebody will the next generation will.
00:39:56.719 --> 00:39:57.760
Yeah, yeah, it's all good.
00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:00.559
And the music that you travel with you, Dick?
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:08.400
I listen to music even when I cycle my bicycle on the Greenway on Lyric FM, Marty in the Morning or George Hamilton, great stuff.
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:15.360
Um but there's one one song you George asked me for my preferences, um, by a guy called uh Labi Sifre.
00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:15.840
Yeah.
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:17.440
Something inside so strong.
00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:19.840
That was an inspiring blamer party.
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:23.519
We actually use it at one of our conferences, and I have a big attachment to that song.
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:30.079
But the other one I'd be very attached to is a song which I hear Paul Robson singing regularly is Trees.
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:33.039
And Trees is one that my father used to sing.
00:40:33.199 --> 00:40:36.000
And of course, after a few drinks, he was well prompted by my mother.
00:40:37.360 --> 00:40:38.239
Great song, Trees.
00:40:38.559 --> 00:40:40.320
Um, and Robson does it very well.
00:40:40.559 --> 00:40:43.039
Yeah, I listen to a lot of music these days, I have to admit.
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:44.239
And quotes enjoy.
00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:46.320
Have you got any particular quotes?
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:50.800
Um uh yeah, the old um Dostoyosphy.
00:40:54.719 --> 00:41:03.519
You're very high, bro, doing Dostoevsky in terms of the second half of a man's life is made up of nothing but the habit he has acquired during the first half.
00:41:03.679 --> 00:41:04.639
Yeah, I think it's very good.
00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:05.360
I never heard that one.
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:08.159
Yeah, and uh the other one I came across recently.
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:13.599
I in terms of reading, I I you know, we've been we're such a great country for writers and poets.
00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:20.079
And I'm glad I had a relationship with some of our great poets like Brendan Kennelly and uh Paul Dirk and Seamus Heaney.
00:41:20.239 --> 00:41:26.159
Personal relationships with them, and I have letters from them which I have in my study and great, great moments.
00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:32.880
And then the writers, you know, from John Banville, Column Tobin, Cullin McCann, Joseph O'Connor, Roddy Doyle.
00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:34.320
Where would you get it?
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:35.519
Yeah, great stuff.
00:41:35.840 --> 00:41:42.400
And I I would have been a great fan over the years of Oscar Wilde, and uh I used to treat my kids to lots of quotations.
00:41:42.639 --> 00:41:48.719
But unfortunately, Christy took Laura to uh I think it was the importance of her uh the importance of being airless.
00:41:48.880 --> 00:41:49.119
Yeah.
00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:52.400
And uh more Laura came home and said, Dad, it's over.
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:53.679
It's over.
00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:56.880
Now I know where you get all your quotations done.
00:41:57.440 --> 00:42:03.519
So um, you know, but um we're and uh you know the poetry is great as well.
00:42:03.599 --> 00:42:06.960
I mean, we're just such a fortunate country in terms of what we produced.
00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:11.599
Yeah, as he says being Irish, she had an abiding sense of tragedy.
00:42:11.920 --> 00:42:15.280
Which all our all our all our wars are happy enough.
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:17.360
Yeah, all our parties are sad.
00:42:17.519 --> 00:42:18.239
Yeah, exactly.
00:42:18.559 --> 00:42:21.199
And are we all do we overdo death and moulding?
00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:22.880
Do we I don't I don't think so.
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:27.679
See, I think the first thing is depending on the circumstances.
00:42:27.760 --> 00:42:34.400
I mean, I hate to see young people being taken away all too soon, which happens obviously sadly in families.
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:41.360
And if you know, on the other score, if you've lived the full life, you know, three score plus whatever the bonus is, you can celebrate that.
00:42:41.440 --> 00:42:48.239
And I think there was a lady died in Trilogy a few years ago, and the message went out that she didn't want anybody wearing dark clothes.
00:42:48.400 --> 00:42:48.639
Yeah.
00:42:49.039 --> 00:42:52.000
Come to the funeral with bright the brightest that you have in the house.
00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:53.519
Yeah, you know, which people did.
00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:54.079
Yeah.
00:42:54.400 --> 00:43:03.199
And um I think it's out of a respect for the deceased, really, you know, and circumstances are different, and people get taken, you know, younger.
00:43:03.280 --> 00:43:05.840
I I it's really tough on families.
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:12.559
Um, it's it's really good, we know, in terms of older people passing away, having lived the full life, I think it's worth celebrating.
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:13.039
Yeah.
00:43:13.199 --> 00:43:13.679
You know.
00:43:14.000 --> 00:43:16.159
And it's very different in different countries.
00:43:16.239 --> 00:43:19.280
Uh in England, it takes two or three weeks till uh that's right.
00:43:19.360 --> 00:43:19.920
That's right.
00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:22.239
In Spain, you're gone within 24 hours.
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:26.880
So we do have a nice way of waiting for people to travel abroad, come back.
00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:32.880
Yeah, in the Arab world, you know, even the leadership they're very different 24 hours without any commotion.
00:43:33.039 --> 00:43:33.199
Correct.
00:43:33.360 --> 00:43:33.679
You know?
00:43:33.840 --> 00:43:34.079
Yeah.
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:43.280
And um it's different in every country, but uh no, I think there's a respect in Ireland for criminal disease, and I would I would I I wouldn't wouldn't like to see that going, to be honest.
00:43:43.599 --> 00:43:43.760
Yeah.
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:48.400
And are you optimistic about the future in Ireland and other places?
00:43:48.800 --> 00:43:49.679
You have to be.
00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:50.880
You have to be.
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:58.960
Um there are huge challenges facing us as a society, from the criminality to the drugs problem, which I'm really worried about, I have to confess.
00:43:59.360 --> 00:44:03.360
And do you think it's a stronger police is the way to go, or is it education thing?
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:10.320
Uh education has a big part to play in it, but also I think um we're very vulnerable to the stuff coming in from South America.
00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:10.719
Yeah.
00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:18.719
We probably have to up our protection in terms of detection, you know, even though the Coast Guard and the police maybe have done a good job in recent years.
00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:21.360
But I how much of it are we stopping, you know.
00:44:21.519 --> 00:44:26.480
But in back 30 years ago, if middle class people wanted drugs, they were going to get them.
00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:27.039
Yeah.
00:44:27.199 --> 00:44:32.880
Uh but since then it's just prevading society, and unfortunately, young people are getting caught into a cycle.
00:44:33.039 --> 00:44:36.159
Why can't they just have a few pints and fall asleep like we used to?
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:39.440
Yeah, in the pav or somewhere in the pav, absolutely.
00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:40.480
The Lincoln Inn.
00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:41.679
The Lincoln, that's right.
00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:43.360
It's very fancy now, Dick.
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:44.000
Is it fancy?
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:45.760
I took this in there recently.
00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:47.519
If it's locked, it's it's lost for me.
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:48.000
It's locked.
00:44:48.239 --> 00:44:48.960
What it used to be.
00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:51.280
Um, they wouldn't give us an after-hour drink in there.
00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:54.239
You know, Patty Murphy was a banana.
00:44:54.320 --> 00:44:59.599
And then about a week after I was elected to Doll, I invited some of my rugby colleagues to meet me in Lincoln.
00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:06.639
And about a quarter past eleven, Patty side lowered me and said, Oh, Deputy, by the way, if you'd like an after-hour drink, you can stay here.
00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:12.320
I said, Paddy, you wouldn't give it to me, but I wanted it for not staying.
00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:12.719
Yeah.
00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:17.599
And is anything, last question that you change if you have the chance to do it again?
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:20.000
Um, yeah, I would I would do it again.
00:45:20.079 --> 00:45:25.360
But you have to understand you do things in your 20s, 30s, 40s that uh you won't do in your 16s and 70s.
00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:28.480
You know, I mean, I often drove up and down to Dublin three times a week.
00:45:28.639 --> 00:45:29.039
Yeah.
00:45:29.199 --> 00:45:30.639
Now I have to think about it.
00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:30.960
Yeah.
00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:33.199
You know, I don't particularly want to drive to Dublin my own.
00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:34.960
I'm very happy Christy comes with me.
00:45:35.119 --> 00:45:36.239
We're sharing the driving.
00:45:36.320 --> 00:45:36.639
Yeah.
00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:44.480
Uh just I leaving here now for to do 300 kilometres is it would be a big challenge, whereas 30 or 40 years ago you didn't blink.
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:44.800
Yeah.
00:45:45.039 --> 00:45:45.519
Had to be done.
00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:48.079
5 5 5 the clock was set for an off you win.
00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:48.639
I know.
00:45:48.719 --> 00:45:50.079
Don't have to set the clock anymore.
00:45:50.239 --> 00:45:50.639
Thankfully.
00:45:51.119 --> 00:45:55.440
Yeah, Dick Spring, it's been a pleasure talking to you and thank you for joining us on Arnold in this.
00:45:55.840 --> 00:45:56.960
Thank you very much.