Getting Bricked with Dave Schilling ("Daughter of Ferrix" Part 1)

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This podcast is brought to you by our partisans,
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Shelby Von Trapp and Bobby Chudhury. If you want
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to find out how to join up with Saw's Rebels,
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or if you want access to our bonus episodes,
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head over to patreon .com slash andorkspod. Welcome
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to Andor, the podcast where every week we analyze
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and scrutinize the Star Wars series Andor seven
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minutes at a time. I'm Alex Wolonetz. And I'm
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Rustin Hunter -Deuce. And we have friends everywhere.
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And today we are joined by our friend, writer
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and filmmaker, Dave Schilling. Hey, Dave. Thanks
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for coming. Hello. Thank you for having me. This
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is a pleasure to revisit such an amazing special
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TV show. It's our pleasure. Thank you so much
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for being here. We're always happy to find new
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friends to talk about Andor with. Can you tell
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us a bit about your history with Star Wars and
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how did you come to find this show? It's a great
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question. I started watching Star Wars in 1995,
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6? Maybe 1994. um when they would show the original
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trilogy on usa network on like the holidays like
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thanksgiving there'd be a marathon of all three
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movies and i was a star trek guy i still am more
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of a star trek person but star wars was kind
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of still ubiquitous because it was it was so
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big for my parents generation And I would watch
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the movies and enjoy them and all that. And I
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remember it didn't really cement itself in my
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imagination until the special editions. So I'm
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the unique, weird person who remembers 1997 very
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fondly as that 20th anniversary and the special
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editions and all the toys and whatnot and Shadows
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of the Empire coming out and then, of course,
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getting the prequels. And I am... One of the
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rare, maybe not so rare anymore, Phantom Menace
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apologists. Oh, I love Phantom Menace. I think
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that movie's actually really good. And to me,
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it's the last time Star Wars was in any way interesting
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before Andor. In what way? What makes the Phantom
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Menace so interesting to you? Well, it's the
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first and only prequel that... didn't have anyone
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else's input. George Lucas just made the movie
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he wanted to make. Nobody... that was working
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on the movie, Rick McCallum, anybody else, really
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had anything to say to convince George to not
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include a scene where somebody steps in poop
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or gets their tongue electrocuted or have a protagonist
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who's six years old or whatever, right? There's
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nobody, no audience, no fan, no executive who
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could really control or contain. his bizarre
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ideas and so it's pure George Lucas it's the
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last time when you really had a lot of real locations
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when you get to Attack of the Clones you have
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a lot of green screen work you have a lot of
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sets that are elongated through special effects
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but they really went to Italy To make this movie.
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They really like went to Tunisia or wherever.
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I think it was Tunisia still for Phantom Menace
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to recreate Tatooine. There's still all this
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stuff and lots of physical props and physical
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vehicles. And it's got two of the best action
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scenes in the entire franchise. You've got the
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pod race and you've got the duel of the fates.
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And so. I enjoyed rewatching it just for that
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kind of tactile, true, real feel and the auteur
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feel of it, too. I think Andor... is an auteur's
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show. And it is something that is so tactile.
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And there's so many physical locations. And there's
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so much to look at. And I just appreciate that
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reality aspect to it. Because Star Wars is already
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a fantastical and ridiculous concept. To take
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it outside of the realm of the physical and have
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it be, you know, like the Mandalorian on the
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volume stage or something. You're now dealing
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with another remove from reality. I need those
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physical bits of it. I think that's why Force
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Awakens worked better than a couple of the other
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sequels, though I love Last Jedi. I need that
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reality. Also, another thing I love about Andor
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and why I think the original trilogy works so
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well. English actors. Or British actors. British
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faces, to be clear. Yeah, ugly British people.
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British teeth. Yes. Especially. They need to
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be in Star Wars. It's just not the same. That's
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why I love the original Batman more than Batman
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Returns. Because you've got those ugly British
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actors in the grime and the cold of London versus
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the sparkling Burbank sets of Batman Returns.
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And I'm alone in that. that um so that's that's
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my star wars history i i collected all the toys
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in 99 um i tried to get into the the um extended
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universe novels and stuff but it never really
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clicked for me in a full way it never became
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star trek to me where it's like oh star trek
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first contact is out i have to go to the theater
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opening weekend though i remember very well um
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seeing Revenge of the Sith and waiting in line
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for a long time in my hometown to go there. But
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I waited for Phantom Menace, I think two weeks
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after the release before I even tried to go because
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it was so insane. Just you didn't have the time
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to sit in front of the movie theater for 12 hours
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to get in. I was 14. I think I'd rather be doing
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anything else than like waiting in line for a
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movie. And everyone said it sucked. so I wasn't
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like I gotta go see this bad movie you know immediately
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I waited a couple weeks and I remember walking
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through the theater to go to my showing of Phantom
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Menace and I heard this rumbling and these people
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screaming and cheering as I was walking by and
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I'm like what's that and I looked at the the
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marquee above the screening room door and it
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was the Matrix and I was like I want to see that
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What's that? Show me that. But I saw Phantom
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Menace instead and was very disappointed. At
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the time. Now I'm sort of like, as I said, an
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apologist. But at the time, I was like, this
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is it? Really? It's long. It's so long. The tactility
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of the Phantom Menace is... truly like it's saving
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grace and i'm a big apologist for that movie
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as well i would rather watch exactly what you're
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talking about i'd rather watch phantom menace
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than revenge of the sith any day that feels like
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a video game the third act of that movie is abysmal
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to me like the whole mustafar lightsaber duel
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is just terrible i think the first maybe 15 minutes
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are kind of fun the the you know the space battle
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and stuff just really going straight into this
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sensory overload of that first act of Revenge
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of the Sith. But from there, it's just like,
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you can't start a movie that high and then come
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down that low. And then people are just standing
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around talking. It's like, I think George Lucas
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wanted to make an adaptation of Paradise Lost,
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but never actually read the book. Just like,
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he looked at the pictures and he's like, I think
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I want to do that. And that's how you get Mustafar.
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Do you think he read much besides like The Hero's
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Journey by Joseph Campbell? I don't know if he's
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like a literary guy. I mean, he's got a book.
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He's got a museum coming out about narrative
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art. So we'll find out. I know. I'm excited to
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go to that restaurant. That's about it. Get the
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Skywalker burger for sure. I think that Phantom
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Menace like was the last Star Wars of the Lucas
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era like to be shot on film. Yeah. And. By shooting
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in real locations and putting CGI on top of it,
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it helped it feel real and stay on the right
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side of the uncanny valley. I was watching like
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the ILM docs about the history of like making
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the prequels and like they didn't know how to
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use green screen yet. Right. Yeah. So they didn't
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know to like how to rotoscope things like they
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had to figure all that shit out while they were
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making it. And so it seemed like. Following the
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reception to Phantom Menace, Lucas just leaned
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even more heavily into, I'm going to use computers
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to just make all of these movies because it's
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too much of a headache to work with locations
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and work with actors. Let me just make this as
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streamlined for me as possible to the detriment
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of the movies. I think that's the reason Attack
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of the Clones is such a fallow middle period
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for people because that was the one where they
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really tried that. you know, has its ups and
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downs. And I'll give Revenge of the Sith a little
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bit more credit than you will. But I think they
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were still, you know, butting up against that
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even then. Well, I think, you know, you bring
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up the documentaries and stuff about the making
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of it and the behind the scenes of it all. And
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the documentary, it's like a feature length documentary.
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This is when DVD was such a big deal. You could
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throw a like two hour documentary onto a DVD
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and people would be thrilled. The documentary
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is called The Beginning on the Phantom Menace
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DVD. You see how hard it was. And when they're
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in the desert and things like... I remember there's
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a moment where there's a sandstorm. And just
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like wind is blowing everything away. And George
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Lucas is just like, oh, God. This wind is going
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to destroy my pods, my pod racers. And I think
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you're right that... He probably, as someone
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that we know, doesn't really love directing.
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He likes making films, but he doesn't love directing.
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He probably said, let's not do this anymore.
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People hated this anyway. So I know I have to
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do two more. I know they're going to make a lot
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of money. But I would like to sit in my chair
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and drink coffee and watch the monitor and not
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talk to the actors and learn more about this
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new technology. And so let's just do it on the
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stage. And that irrevocably changed Star Wars
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forever, for the worse, in my opinion. It stopped
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being anything that was connected to humanity.
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And that's... Part of the lasting legacy of George
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Lucas is that Star Wars is not a series about
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people. It is about big things happening. It's
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about set pieces. And what I love about Andor,
00:11:37.429 --> 00:11:39.269
to bring it back to the topic that we're here
00:11:39.269 --> 00:11:44.730
to discuss, it's finally, at long last, an opportunity
00:11:44.730 --> 00:11:49.389
for Star Wars to be about people again. And that's
00:11:49.389 --> 00:11:51.299
what I love about the show. I mean, you said
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before that you were sort of more of a Star Trek
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than a Star Wars person. And do you think that
00:11:54.500 --> 00:11:56.940
sort of the that Star Trek to me was more about
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the people and Star Wars is more about the big.
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No, no, no. Star Trek is more about the ideas
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than Star Wars. I think Star Wars is about myth,
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right? I remember writing something when Last
00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:13.840
Jedi came out, and I really liked the movie,
00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:16.659
but what I was concerned about with Star Wars
00:12:16.659 --> 00:12:20.440
as a whole was this is so broad in terms of what
00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:24.299
it's about. It's about big sort of ideas of...
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aging and maturity and what do you do when you're
00:12:28.659 --> 00:12:30.600
young and you want to be an adult and what do
00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:32.700
you do when you're old and you're going to die
00:12:32.700 --> 00:12:36.720
and the regrets you have. Last Jedi is all about
00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:39.620
regrets. Would you kill baby Hitler? Yeah, exactly.
00:12:39.980 --> 00:12:43.299
Okay, so this guy is going to be way worse than
00:12:43.299 --> 00:12:45.759
my dad. I should probably just cut him down.
00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:50.759
But what if I don't? And so these are big things
00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:54.970
that unfortunately anyone can project themselves
00:12:54.970 --> 00:12:58.629
onto. You could be a Republican, a Democrat,
00:12:59.009 --> 00:13:04.429
super progressive, super conservative, or, you
00:13:04.429 --> 00:13:07.409
know, borderline reactionary, you know, fascist,
00:13:07.409 --> 00:13:11.049
and say, I relate to the hero, because there's
00:13:11.049 --> 00:13:15.269
no politics in Star Wars. Star Trek, on the other
00:13:15.269 --> 00:13:19.129
hand, is all about politics. It is very explicitly
00:13:19.129 --> 00:13:24.029
about a hyper -progressive, hyper -liberal future
00:13:24.029 --> 00:13:27.049
where everyone gets along, where there's no money,
00:13:27.210 --> 00:13:30.409
where we just go into space for the purposes
00:13:30.409 --> 00:13:33.950
of bettering ourselves and learning more and
00:13:33.950 --> 00:13:36.710
protecting those that can't protect themselves.
00:13:37.070 --> 00:13:41.659
Star Wars is about, well, what if? The bad guys
00:13:41.659 --> 00:13:47.399
were so bad that you need Jesus, essentially,
00:13:47.500 --> 00:13:52.220
or some sort of deity to rise up and save everyone.
00:13:52.500 --> 00:13:56.279
But from what? The Empire has no political ambition,
00:13:56.600 --> 00:14:01.740
per se. They have no ideology. And so I feel
00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:05.919
like Star Wars has been, up until Andor... so
00:14:05.919 --> 00:14:09.820
politically neutral and so generic in terms of
00:14:09.820 --> 00:14:13.440
its worldview that anyone can look at Star Wars
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:17.320
and say, I'm the hero. I've got some bad news
00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:19.139
about Andor. People also do that with Andor.
00:14:19.340 --> 00:14:23.340
Which is terrifying because it's like, how explicit
00:14:23.340 --> 00:14:26.220
could Tony Gilroy be? How clear could he be?
00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:29.879
But because you can't say, this is Donald Trump,
00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:37.940
this is Steve Bannon, this is whomever. you still
00:14:37.940 --> 00:14:40.460
have that opportunity for people to not get the
00:14:40.460 --> 00:14:42.259
point. And people still don't get the point about
00:14:42.259 --> 00:14:44.299
Star Trek either. I mean, Ted Cruz is like, I
00:14:44.299 --> 00:14:46.179
love Star Trek. Captain Kirk is cool. It's like,
00:14:46.220 --> 00:14:49.889
yeah, but he would not vote for you. He would
00:14:49.889 --> 00:14:52.549
not agree with anything that you believe in because
00:14:52.549 --> 00:14:56.149
he's egalitarian and he's progressive and he's
00:14:56.149 --> 00:14:58.990
intellectual. And he's not just a guy who has
00:14:58.990 --> 00:15:02.149
sex with green women. He read every book. He
00:15:02.149 --> 00:15:05.570
knows how a starship works and he cares about
00:15:05.570 --> 00:15:08.889
everyone, no matter what color they are, what
00:15:08.889 --> 00:15:14.190
race they are, what species they are. So anytime
00:15:14.190 --> 00:15:16.779
you deal with allegory like that. you run the
00:15:16.779 --> 00:15:18.879
risk of people not getting it. But Star Wars,
00:15:19.039 --> 00:15:21.539
because it's so much bigger than Star Trek, because
00:15:21.539 --> 00:15:24.139
it's so much more influential, and because it's
00:15:24.139 --> 00:15:27.879
so much more vague and broad, I think it's worse
00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:34.000
for that. And or at least tried to make the point
00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:37.389
a little bit clearer. But because, again... And
00:15:37.389 --> 00:15:40.389
or doesn't say this is what the empire believes.
00:15:40.529 --> 00:15:43.669
These are their opinions. We're all so didactic
00:15:43.669 --> 00:15:48.029
and literal in our society now that unless you
00:15:48.029 --> 00:15:50.110
say the empire doesn't believe that women should
00:15:50.110 --> 00:15:53.570
be able to have abortions or the empire killed
00:15:53.570 --> 00:15:56.990
every queer person, like then you don't, you
00:15:56.990 --> 00:15:59.870
can't really make sense in our modern context.
00:16:00.070 --> 00:16:03.990
It's still the empire is bad. But why are they
00:16:03.990 --> 00:16:08.629
bad? What do they do that's truly bad? And the
00:16:08.629 --> 00:16:11.230
things that the Empire does in Andor are things
00:16:11.230 --> 00:16:13.809
that are analogous to things that happen now.
00:16:13.929 --> 00:16:17.929
And the whole prison arc is such a powerful bit
00:16:17.929 --> 00:16:23.029
of business in this show. But you can't say that
00:16:23.029 --> 00:16:28.559
it's a clear one -to -one. You can't say like,
00:16:28.600 --> 00:16:32.320
OK, I see how this relates to reality if you're
00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:35.519
not looking for it. It's a Rorschach test. Star
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.200
Wars and all science fiction is a Rorschach test.
00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:40.779
You could watch Dune and you could be like, well,
00:16:40.899 --> 00:16:44.019
Paul Atreides is a great guy and he's a hero
00:16:44.019 --> 00:16:48.580
and he liberated Arrakis. Well, also, he's a
00:16:48.580 --> 00:16:51.779
dictator and he ends up genociding billions of
00:16:51.779 --> 00:16:56.629
people. That book goes out of its way to tell
00:16:56.629 --> 00:16:59.230
you he's a bad guy, and yet people still miss
00:16:59.230 --> 00:17:00.950
the point. They still miss the point. And when
00:17:00.950 --> 00:17:03.529
the third one comes out, they will miss the point
00:17:03.529 --> 00:17:05.829
again. And they will say, oh, well, he's a bad
00:17:05.829 --> 00:17:08.109
guy, but he's a bad guy like the people that
00:17:08.109 --> 00:17:11.509
I hate in the real world. It's almost as if entertainment
00:17:11.509 --> 00:17:15.349
cannot really fully work as a political tool
00:17:15.349 --> 00:17:17.410
to convince people of your politics. It's almost
00:17:17.410 --> 00:17:20.710
as if art is separate from the political. Machinations
00:17:20.710 --> 00:17:22.509
to get people to change their minds. Well, it
00:17:22.509 --> 00:17:26.349
is certainly when it is for the purposes of making
00:17:26.349 --> 00:17:29.630
money. Yes. Right? Everything we're talking about
00:17:29.630 --> 00:17:35.490
today is in service of capitalism. And for good
00:17:35.490 --> 00:17:39.589
or worse, capitalism is what dictates what art
00:17:39.589 --> 00:17:42.730
we see. If that's paintings, if it's sculptures,
00:17:42.910 --> 00:17:46.150
if it's music, if it's literature, you can't
00:17:46.150 --> 00:17:50.119
make it unless there's a profit motive. attached
00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:55.099
to it so we'll never truly get something that
00:17:55.099 --> 00:18:01.630
is a true screed or a real gerrymand against
00:18:01.630 --> 00:18:05.650
a certain thing. The closest I think we get with
00:18:05.650 --> 00:18:08.450
that is a Boots Riley movie. You know, I saw
00:18:08.450 --> 00:18:11.470
I Love Boosters, unlike most people in America.
00:18:12.069 --> 00:18:14.589
And that was as close as you're going to get.
00:18:14.690 --> 00:18:16.690
And you could still misinterpret that movie.
00:18:16.789 --> 00:18:18.210
Well, it's easy to misinterpret it because the
00:18:18.210 --> 00:18:21.849
sound mixing was awful. It might have been the
00:18:21.849 --> 00:18:24.430
theater you saw it in. Oh, no, it was. I've heard.
00:18:25.949 --> 00:18:27.450
Other people complained about the sound mixing
00:18:27.450 --> 00:18:29.329
on that, so that was not me. It's no Christopher
00:18:29.329 --> 00:18:32.430
Nolan movie, but yes, I understand the complaint.
00:18:33.109 --> 00:18:37.609
I think that Lucas... You know, he wears his
00:18:37.609 --> 00:18:40.450
influences on his sleeve, right? Like he's very
00:18:40.450 --> 00:18:43.849
forthcoming about the political moment in which
00:18:43.849 --> 00:18:46.829
he was trying to capture, you know, within Star
00:18:46.829 --> 00:18:50.769
Wars. But he was also a canny businessman and
00:18:50.769 --> 00:18:53.910
knew that I need to make that palatable to people.
00:18:54.029 --> 00:18:58.759
I need to suffuse it with enough. cutesy glupshiddos
00:18:58.759 --> 00:19:02.039
to, you know, get kids to want to buy toys of
00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:04.920
my little Viet Cong figures because they're never
00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:07.039
going to let me make a movie about, you know,
00:19:07.059 --> 00:19:09.740
the Viet Cong unless I can also turn it into
00:19:09.740 --> 00:19:12.839
a way to sell action figures. But then he's had
00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:15.099
billions of dollars to make whatever movie he's
00:19:15.099 --> 00:19:18.640
wanted and he's not. Because he's lazy. Yeah.
00:19:18.940 --> 00:19:22.319
He's not a person who likes being on a set. He
00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:25.819
likes his ideas and he likes tinkering with equipment
00:19:25.819 --> 00:19:29.180
and he likes all of the stuff that's non -human
00:19:29.180 --> 00:19:31.900
about it. And that's what's fascinating to me
00:19:31.900 --> 00:19:33.519
about Phantom Menace is he said, I'm going to
00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:35.359
make this movie. I'm going to make a trilogy
00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:42.740
of movies about how fascism can foment in a democratic
00:19:42.740 --> 00:19:49.779
society. But it's Star Wars. And I don't understand
00:19:49.779 --> 00:19:55.059
how people talk. And I'm going to make one of
00:19:55.059 --> 00:19:57.720
them a noir, and I'm going to make half of it
00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:02.079
a Ray Harryhausen sword and sandals movie, and
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:06.140
it'll all fit together. Yeah, the original trilogy,
00:20:06.380 --> 00:20:09.019
and I think part of that is because George didn't
00:20:09.019 --> 00:20:11.380
direct the other two, is that they were all the
00:20:11.380 --> 00:20:14.839
same genre. It wasn't like, oh, The Empire Strikes
00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.539
Back is now going to be a romantic comedy. That
00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:21.420
didn't happen, right? There weren't these wild
00:20:21.420 --> 00:20:24.819
tonal shifts or different narrative structures.
00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:28.809
Okay, so it's... The same thing you saw before,
00:20:29.029 --> 00:20:31.710
but a little different because it's not, it's
00:20:31.710 --> 00:20:34.509
more, you know, it's darker or it's the bad guys
00:20:34.509 --> 00:20:36.970
are winning more or, you know, we're going to
00:20:36.970 --> 00:20:38.869
do the Death Star again, but it's a bigger Death
00:20:38.869 --> 00:20:41.869
Star and now they're little people with furry
00:20:41.869 --> 00:20:45.670
faces and Jabba the Hutt shows up. Like, it's
00:20:45.670 --> 00:20:48.650
mostly the same kind of movie. It's still an
00:20:48.650 --> 00:20:52.390
adventure, serial, sci -fi, Flash Gordon kind
00:20:52.390 --> 00:20:56.480
of thing. And I think that's why people... still
00:20:56.480 --> 00:20:59.400
to this day don't like Indiana Jones and the
00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.539
Temple of Doom because it took Indiana Jones
00:21:02.539 --> 00:21:06.299
and they put him into a different genre of movie.
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:09.140
They put him into a haunted house horror film
00:21:09.140 --> 00:21:13.680
and included a bunch of racist stereotypes that
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:18.359
nobody appreciated. And it was scary, and kids
00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:23.480
are now in peril and all that stuff. You have
00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:27.880
to, with a sequel, give people the same movie,
00:21:28.019 --> 00:21:32.349
but... different in how does it how does it be
00:21:32.349 --> 00:21:34.930
different you know i that's just terrible what
00:21:34.930 --> 00:21:36.990
it said how is the movie going to be different
00:21:36.990 --> 00:21:40.430
uh dark the dark knight is i think the best example
00:21:40.430 --> 00:21:43.950
and empire strikes back and godfather 2 where
00:21:43.950 --> 00:21:46.970
it's the same genre of movie it's the same thing
00:21:46.970 --> 00:21:49.809
that you liked before but heightened in some
00:21:49.809 --> 00:21:54.019
way there's some element that is slightly more
00:21:54.019 --> 00:21:58.519
sophisticated or more exciting or something that
00:21:58.519 --> 00:22:02.119
just like takes it from an eight to a 10. And
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:04.359
I don't think he ever figured out how to do that
00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:07.859
with the prequel trilogy. And certainly with
00:22:07.859 --> 00:22:10.599
the sequel trilogy, they tried and they just
00:22:10.599 --> 00:22:15.640
couldn't land the plane there. I think that their,
00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:19.460
their insistence on certain deadlines, you know,
00:22:19.980 --> 00:22:22.059
threw them off. And if you're going to do that,
00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:26.799
you need to have one single person holding everything
00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:29.259
together. They wanted every dollar they could
00:22:29.259 --> 00:22:31.559
get from the sequel trilogy. Disney was like,
00:22:31.660 --> 00:22:35.460
we're going to do these on this year, at this
00:22:35.460 --> 00:22:37.339
time, and we're going to get this money, and
00:22:37.339 --> 00:22:39.700
we're going to keep it going. And that's a bad
00:22:39.700 --> 00:22:42.900
way to make sequels. Yeah, I mean, ironically,
00:22:43.059 --> 00:22:44.660
Kathleen Kennedy's idea of let's do different
00:22:44.660 --> 00:22:46.339
directors who have their own control of the project
00:22:46.339 --> 00:22:48.980
is a good idea, but you have to stick with it.
00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:51.259
You can't just like, bounce out after you have
00:22:51.259 --> 00:22:55.339
one pickup yeah and you need to pick well too
00:22:55.339 --> 00:23:00.319
like picking josh trank gareth edwards and lord
00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:04.660
and miller i think those are you know three and
00:23:04.660 --> 00:23:07.779
colin trevor they had to fire him they like they
00:23:07.779 --> 00:23:12.079
had to fire him there was no reason why you have
00:23:12.079 --> 00:23:14.819
to get rid of the third guy right okay let's
00:23:14.819 --> 00:23:17.799
let's accept that some people really didn't like
00:23:17.799 --> 00:23:21.279
the last jedi Guess what? Rian Johnson's not
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:24.059
coming back, so who cares? But what they did
00:23:24.059 --> 00:23:28.819
is they said, we hate this movie so much from
00:23:28.819 --> 00:23:32.160
a corporate standpoint that we're not going to
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.980
work with this guy who has made a huge movie,
00:23:35.220 --> 00:23:39.359
Jurassic World. We're not going to pick up any
00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:42.019
of the plot threads from the last film. And we're
00:23:42.019 --> 00:23:43.880
just going to give it back to J .J. because we're
00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:47.200
so terrified. And that's a terrible way to do
00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:54.160
business. Well, speaking of guys we hate, I think
00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:57.859
we should speak about guys we love. Because here
00:23:57.859 --> 00:23:59.839
on the show, we have a question we like to ask
00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:02.440
our guests, which is in honor of the late great
00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:06.079
WTF with Marc Maron. Who are your glup shittos?
00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:10.319
Well, I mean, there's so many wonderful, bizarre
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:15.599
characters to choose from. My first love is Salacious
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.240
Crumb. from uh hell yeah return of the jedi and
00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:19.839
i'm sure other people have said that on this
00:24:19.839 --> 00:24:22.359
he's our he was our first five -timer he's hilarious
00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:26.619
like he's having so much fun and that that first
00:24:26.619 --> 00:24:29.140
part of return of the jedi is very dark and kind
00:24:29.140 --> 00:24:33.380
of it was scary to me like being in this um dank
00:24:33.380 --> 00:24:37.500
disgusting sex dungeon essentially like let's
00:24:37.500 --> 00:24:40.140
be real job of the hud's up to some jeffrey epstein
00:24:40.140 --> 00:24:42.940
stuff i mean did you watch mandalorian and grogu
00:24:42.940 --> 00:24:47.410
no Oh, man. Absolutely not. They are sucking
00:24:47.410 --> 00:24:49.990
and fucking in that movie. There's like a full
00:24:49.990 --> 00:24:51.670
Eyes Wide Shut scene happening with multiple
00:24:51.670 --> 00:24:54.849
Hutts. In the Hutt Palace. In that case, I'm
00:24:54.849 --> 00:24:56.710
going to queue it up on Disney Plus right after
00:24:56.710 --> 00:25:00.410
this. And only watch that part. He's sort of
00:25:00.410 --> 00:25:04.190
like in the cuck chair. Salacious Crumb is. He's
00:25:04.190 --> 00:25:07.009
like the jester cuck. Yeah, he's like, I can't
00:25:07.009 --> 00:25:09.710
believe you're doing that. That's gross. Don't
00:25:09.710 --> 00:25:13.440
get any on me. But I just love the design of
00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:18.160
the puppet. I love the sort of anarchic vibe
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:23.960
that he brings to the film. It makes everything
00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:28.529
grosser. It's sort of like... In Blue Velvet,
00:25:28.710 --> 00:25:33.109
there's the famous party scene where Kyle MacLachlan's
00:25:33.109 --> 00:25:36.150
character has been dragged to Frank Booth, Dennis
00:25:36.150 --> 00:25:40.410
Hopper's sort of weird drug den. And they have
00:25:40.410 --> 00:25:44.789
the in dreams scene where Dean Stockwell sings,
00:25:44.950 --> 00:25:48.089
or doesn't sing, but lip syncs in dreams with
00:25:48.089 --> 00:25:53.849
the light as a microphone. Brad Dourif is just
00:25:53.849 --> 00:25:56.250
like hanging out in the background with a snake.
00:25:56.390 --> 00:25:58.950
And he's just like dancing around with a snake.
00:25:59.009 --> 00:26:02.490
And there's like an older woman and she's dancing
00:26:02.490 --> 00:26:05.210
on a couch. And that's what I think Salacious
00:26:05.210 --> 00:26:08.509
Crumb brings to that moment is people are having
00:26:08.509 --> 00:26:11.109
fun and they shouldn't be having fun in this
00:26:11.109 --> 00:26:15.890
at all. And then my other one is Babu Freak.
00:26:17.089 --> 00:26:22.119
Hey, Bob. Congratulations. Babu Frick is getting
00:26:22.119 --> 00:26:24.720
the SNL five -timer jacket because of your nomination.
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:29.819
Fabulous. There's not a lot that I love about
00:26:29.819 --> 00:26:33.279
Rise of Skywalker. Babu. Other than when it ends
00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:35.900
and then I can leave the theater. I remember
00:26:35.900 --> 00:26:40.079
seeing it. I saw it at the El Capitan in Hollywood.
00:26:40.480 --> 00:26:44.539
It wasn't the premiere, but it was like a big
00:26:44.539 --> 00:26:47.440
press screening and all the nerds were there.
00:26:49.529 --> 00:26:53.670
I'm like, oh my God, really? Like every five
00:26:53.670 --> 00:26:57.450
minutes, I'm like, oh my God, you killed Chewbacca?
00:26:58.089 --> 00:27:02.829
Not really. You didn't kill Chewbacca? Who is,
00:27:02.910 --> 00:27:06.750
why is Keri Russell in this? And all of it was
00:27:06.750 --> 00:27:09.190
just so painful. And we all walked out and we're
00:27:09.190 --> 00:27:13.289
like, really? That was it? That was what they
00:27:13.289 --> 00:27:16.970
did? But we all said, we love Babu Freak. Because
00:27:16.970 --> 00:27:20.710
it's such a great, again, a great little creature.
00:27:20.789 --> 00:27:26.250
And they designed it well. Whoever came up with
00:27:26.250 --> 00:27:30.089
that creature design deserves a raise. Because
00:27:30.089 --> 00:27:32.950
he's got the mustache and the big eyes and little
00:27:32.950 --> 00:27:38.200
arms and, like, the goggles. It felt like old
00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:40.519
school Star Wars. Whenever you see a creature
00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:43.119
like that, that feels like it would belong in
00:27:43.119 --> 00:27:45.400
the original trilogy, you know that they've hit
00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:47.640
a home run. So after you watch the Eyes Wide
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:50.160
Shut portion of Mandalorian Grogu, fast forward
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:53.839
to the 20 minutes of what if it was just baby
00:27:53.839 --> 00:27:57.069
Grogu and four Babu Fricks? I've seen enough
00:27:57.069 --> 00:28:00.369
clips on Instagram where I feel like I got the
00:28:00.369 --> 00:28:03.309
gist of it. What if there was four Babu Freaks?
00:28:03.490 --> 00:28:05.609
It'd be amazing if they could do a supercut of
00:28:05.609 --> 00:28:09.109
just Babu Freaks stuff from the show, from the
00:28:09.109 --> 00:28:12.109
movies. That's all I need. I don't need to see
00:28:12.109 --> 00:28:14.490
the story. I just want to see my little guys
00:28:14.490 --> 00:28:17.559
doing their business. It was worth the price
00:28:17.559 --> 00:28:20.480
of admission, I'll say, for how much of Minch
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:22.880
and the gang you get to see. Because it isn't
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:25.279
technically Babu Frick. It's like others from
00:28:25.279 --> 00:28:28.480
their species. What are they called? Minch is
00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:32.079
the main guy. Oh, Azaleans. Azaleans. Okay, got
00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:34.559
it. And they all look exactly the same. It's
00:28:34.559 --> 00:28:38.259
not like every minion has a different sort of
00:28:38.259 --> 00:28:41.839
configuration of eyes and goggles. They do look
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:44.859
different. Some have braces. Dave, who are your
00:28:44.859 --> 00:28:49.089
minions? I mean, obviously Bob, number one. Gotta
00:28:49.089 --> 00:28:53.589
be Bob. Stuart, great. The one with braces that
00:28:53.589 --> 00:28:57.910
was in Rise of Gru. I love the deaf minion from
00:28:57.910 --> 00:29:00.410
Minions and Monsters. He was great. I could talk
00:29:00.410 --> 00:29:02.609
about Minions and Monsters for an hour. So when
00:29:02.609 --> 00:29:05.369
this is over, there's a Minions podcast coming.
00:29:06.150 --> 00:29:09.089
Can't wait to be on that one. Who's your favorite
00:29:09.089 --> 00:29:12.210
minion? My insane Minions take is that... Not
00:29:12.210 --> 00:29:14.309
only did they hear the, why did the minions not
00:29:14.309 --> 00:29:16.730
fight for Hitler of the first three? They said
00:29:16.730 --> 00:29:18.470
for minions four, what if we make the minions
00:29:18.470 --> 00:29:22.269
Jews? You know why they weren't fighting in World
00:29:22.269 --> 00:29:24.309
War II? Because they were making movies. Well,
00:29:24.329 --> 00:29:26.210
yeah, that's like, okay, there's a tribe of minions
00:29:26.210 --> 00:29:29.809
lost in the desert, following one with a staff,
00:29:30.089 --> 00:29:35.670
who somehow, unfairly known for evil, who ended
00:29:35.670 --> 00:29:37.210
up working in the entertainment industry in the
00:29:37.210 --> 00:29:41.819
1920s. Louis B. Minion. Exactly. Yeah, I love
00:29:41.819 --> 00:29:43.900
this. I love this theory that it's really just
00:29:43.900 --> 00:29:46.299
about the Jewish experience. Just that one tribe.
00:29:46.460 --> 00:29:48.400
I mean, they start saying the Minion tribes,
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:51.519
which is a very specific word to use. You're
00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:54.099
right. But also, like, they have to explain why
00:29:54.099 --> 00:29:57.309
there's... tons of groups of minions that are
00:29:57.309 --> 00:30:00.130
doing different things across history. Because
00:30:00.130 --> 00:30:03.150
in the first, the prequel Minions movie, it's
00:30:03.150 --> 00:30:05.289
like, oh, they're all on this island, this frozen
00:30:05.289 --> 00:30:09.390
island, and they all come to England in the 60s.
00:30:09.410 --> 00:30:11.269
But it's actually like, no, there's other minions.
00:30:11.430 --> 00:30:14.230
They're everywhere. They're an infestation on
00:30:14.230 --> 00:30:16.710
the planet. We have to do something about all
00:30:16.710 --> 00:30:18.829
these minion tribes everywhere. If anybody at
00:30:18.829 --> 00:30:20.650
Universal is listening, I have a very good spec
00:30:20.650 --> 00:30:23.349
script about Operation Paperclip of them kidnapping
00:30:23.349 --> 00:30:26.579
all the Nazi minions. after World War II and
00:30:26.579 --> 00:30:30.779
then using them to do evil here at home. Operation
00:30:30.779 --> 00:30:36.240
Bellowclip. Yes. Well, we can move on from this
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:38.359
now. Yeah. With that, should we get into our
00:30:38.359 --> 00:30:40.940
seven minutes of Andor? Seven minutes in heaven.
00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:43.819
Unfortunately, no minions, but we get kind of
00:30:43.819 --> 00:30:47.890
close. We get pretty close. uh cs uh previously
00:30:47.890 --> 00:30:51.250
on andor uh we finally escaped for 19 to 5 uh
00:30:51.250 --> 00:30:53.750
ruth and riel told us out about how he made his
00:30:53.750 --> 00:30:55.750
mind a sunless place and scared the shit out
00:30:55.750 --> 00:30:58.170
of lani but now it's time to kick off episode
00:30:58.170 --> 00:31:00.309
11 which rusty and holy shit we only have two
00:31:00.309 --> 00:31:02.750
episodes left of season one i know what the fuck
00:31:02.750 --> 00:31:07.069
it's absolutely absurd we are officially at like
00:31:07.069 --> 00:31:10.880
the one year mark of doing this show I kind of
00:31:10.880 --> 00:31:12.880
can't believe that we're going to finish season
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:15.940
one so soon. Yeah, that we've stuck with it.
00:31:17.960 --> 00:31:19.940
Yes, and then so we start with our Andor logo,
00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:22.859
which I feel like it's very jaunty music -wise.
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.480
It's almost at its full evolution, which makes
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:27.859
sense for what's going to happen later in the
00:31:27.859 --> 00:31:32.140
episode. Yes, back on Narkina 5, we find Melshi
00:31:32.140 --> 00:31:34.339
and Cassian are hanging out, literally hanging
00:31:34.339 --> 00:31:37.140
on the side of a rocky cliff. trying to avoid
00:31:37.140 --> 00:31:39.240
the Empire patrol ship looking for escapees.
00:31:39.819 --> 00:31:42.740
Melshi can't feel his hands. Cassian tells them
00:31:42.740 --> 00:31:45.839
that the Empire is leaving. Melshi knows that's
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:48.779
bullshit. Cassian repeats, they're leaving. Melshi
00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:51.299
says he can't climb back up. Finally, he asks
00:31:51.299 --> 00:31:54.380
Melshi to comfort him and tell him they're leaving.
00:31:54.720 --> 00:31:58.480
They're leaving. And so ends Melshi turning into
00:31:58.480 --> 00:32:00.339
a Woody Allen character for like 30 seconds.
00:32:01.859 --> 00:32:06.680
I can't feel my hands. I guess it's more of a
00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:08.339
Jerry Lewis. Yeah, it's somewhere in the middle,
00:32:08.420 --> 00:32:13.039
yes. Yeah, like... What did I do to deserve this?
00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:17.720
Oh, right. We just busted out of a prison, that's
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:21.339
what. I mean, you know, they've gone through
00:32:21.339 --> 00:32:25.299
all of the trials and tribulations of Narkeena,
00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:28.140
and yet here they are in as precarious a place
00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:32.960
as ever, just to avoid the sentries flying overhead.
00:32:33.869 --> 00:32:35.769
Dave, do you have any thoughts about the prison
00:32:35.769 --> 00:32:38.369
arc? We're coming in right at the end. I mean,
00:32:38.509 --> 00:32:42.130
Andy Serkis in that prison arc is incredible.
00:32:42.289 --> 00:32:46.269
And the production design, the set, you really
00:32:46.269 --> 00:32:52.529
feel for these prisoners in a way that I think
00:32:52.529 --> 00:32:56.589
Star Wars, even earlier in the season, you understand
00:32:56.589 --> 00:32:59.700
that the Empire is bad. But you don't really
00:32:59.700 --> 00:33:02.099
see, and to go back to my original point earlier,
00:33:02.359 --> 00:33:05.640
you don't really see why they're bad. They don't
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:08.299
do horrible things. Even in the original trilogy,
00:33:08.599 --> 00:33:11.940
you know, Darth Vader is obviously a villain
00:33:11.940 --> 00:33:15.339
because he's all black and he's mean to Princess
00:33:15.339 --> 00:33:18.579
Leia and everything. And you're told in the scroll
00:33:18.579 --> 00:33:23.839
they're bad. But what are they doing that's bad?
00:33:24.079 --> 00:33:26.200
And so you see how these prisoners are treated.
00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:30.990
You see the kind of... orwellian nature of this
00:33:30.990 --> 00:33:36.329
facility and it cements what you're supposed
00:33:36.329 --> 00:33:39.430
to hate about them and you want cassian to escape
00:33:39.430 --> 00:33:41.869
so much and he escapes and then of course his
00:33:41.869 --> 00:33:45.170
escape is to the edge of a cliff you know he's
00:33:45.170 --> 00:33:49.910
hanging off of the rocks and and i just really
00:33:49.910 --> 00:33:54.599
love that you get this And this is the first
00:33:54.599 --> 00:33:56.799
moment where I really understood what the show
00:33:56.799 --> 00:33:59.680
was going to be, where now we're just going to
00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:03.319
be in the prison for a while. At first, I'm like,
00:34:03.380 --> 00:34:05.519
oh, he's just going to be bopping around and
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:09.059
stuff. And eventually he'll get to the resistance.
00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:12.780
But it's like, OK, here's three episodes where
00:34:12.780 --> 00:34:17.039
he's just in prison. And that was fascinating
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:18.780
to me, and that's when I really locked into the
00:34:18.780 --> 00:34:21.199
show is, okay, we're going to do some interesting,
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:23.960
difficult, weird things that are not going to
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:28.300
be action -adventure stuff. So speaking of the
00:34:28.300 --> 00:34:30.480
sort of knowing that the Empire is evil aspect,
00:34:30.619 --> 00:34:33.400
I want to ask you, because you did work on Horror's
00:34:33.400 --> 00:34:45.150
New Wave, 15 Years of Blumhouse. I did. It has
00:34:45.150 --> 00:34:46.929
like a political angle of like something is bad.
00:34:47.090 --> 00:34:48.469
It doesn't really can't come to a conclusion
00:34:48.469 --> 00:34:50.909
about it, but there is some sort of like revulsion
00:34:50.909 --> 00:34:53.349
of seeing something that is bad. And so do you
00:34:53.349 --> 00:34:54.630
sort of see like a parallel between those two
00:34:54.630 --> 00:34:56.369
things of there's a political aspect of horror
00:34:56.369 --> 00:34:58.489
of like, this thing is bad. It can't really offer
00:34:58.489 --> 00:35:02.829
a solution to it, but it. Well, I mean, I think
00:35:02.829 --> 00:35:07.309
anytime you're going to make any sort of social,
00:35:07.489 --> 00:35:10.619
cultural, political statements. The thing that
00:35:10.619 --> 00:35:14.980
you hate has to be truly repulsive. And horror
00:35:14.980 --> 00:35:18.739
does that much easier than science fiction. Horror
00:35:18.739 --> 00:35:21.760
can say, you know, we're making a movie about
00:35:21.760 --> 00:35:30.780
the awful nature of being closeted. and being
00:35:30.780 --> 00:35:34.460
forced to not be able to be yourself. And I'm,
00:35:34.460 --> 00:35:37.300
of course, speaking specifically about Nightmare
00:35:37.300 --> 00:35:41.099
on Elm Street 2, which is famously very much
00:35:41.099 --> 00:35:45.719
like an allegory for growing up being queer and
00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:47.960
not being able to express yourself. And what
00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:50.119
does that mean? And Freddie is almost sort of
00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:55.539
like an analog for... the societal pressure to
00:35:55.539 --> 00:35:58.820
be something you're not or whatever, right? Everybody
00:35:58.820 --> 00:36:00.659
watch Teenage Sex and Death, The Camp Niaza,
00:36:00.659 --> 00:36:03.039
now streaming on your favorite platformers. It's
00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:04.360
not streaming yet. It's still in theaters. No,
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:07.420
when this episode comes out. Oh, sorry. I didn't
00:36:07.420 --> 00:36:09.719
realize the episode was going to come out much
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:12.480
later. I hope it's still in theaters. But yeah,
00:36:12.619 --> 00:36:15.659
that's the thing about horror is that because
00:36:15.659 --> 00:36:18.099
it's visceral and it's gross and it's scary,
00:36:18.300 --> 00:36:23.420
it creates more of an emotional reaction. Science
00:36:23.420 --> 00:36:29.099
fiction is either a kind of like it's fun, like
00:36:29.099 --> 00:36:33.239
Star Wars, or it's so intellectual and so like
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:35.920
focused on the ideas that it might be off putting
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:38.840
for some people like Star Trek. But it's not
00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:43.500
the same kind of. oh my God, this means this.
00:36:43.840 --> 00:36:45.820
You know, you can watch Halloween and you can
00:36:45.820 --> 00:36:49.760
say Halloween is really a movie about the encroachment
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:53.159
of urban crime into the suburbs, right? You could
00:36:53.159 --> 00:36:55.699
say that if you wanted to. You could say Jaws.
00:36:55.940 --> 00:36:58.480
I remember this is very, this is a thing from
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:02.360
film school. One of my film theory professors
00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:06.639
said, you know, Jaws is really both about fear
00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:10.690
of the vagina. And Watergate. And I'm like, what?
00:37:11.650 --> 00:37:14.829
It's both? And it can be both depending on how
00:37:14.829 --> 00:37:18.329
you read it. The fact that the government is
00:37:18.329 --> 00:37:20.469
not to be trusted, that they don't really have
00:37:20.469 --> 00:37:22.829
the people's best interest in mind, that they're
00:37:22.829 --> 00:37:26.260
really thinking about profit over safety. All
00:37:26.260 --> 00:37:29.420
of that stuff. The shark's really sexy. The shark
00:37:29.420 --> 00:37:32.719
has a beautiful vagina dentata situation and
00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:34.400
they all want to jump inside there, but they
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:38.980
can't. And yes, there's so much to horror that
00:37:38.980 --> 00:37:42.599
maybe is easier to grasp, but it's still, I mean,
00:37:42.619 --> 00:37:44.780
it's all allegory at the end of the day and you
00:37:44.780 --> 00:37:49.179
can't really, unless you're looking for it or
00:37:49.179 --> 00:37:52.320
you're parsing it. And my favorite conversations
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:55.289
I've had in the last two weeks. have been about
00:37:55.289 --> 00:37:57.369
Camp Miasma because it's one of those movies
00:37:57.369 --> 00:37:59.409
that wants you to talk about it after it's over.
00:37:59.949 --> 00:38:02.750
But most horror films, most sci -fi films, they
00:38:02.750 --> 00:38:05.969
don't want that. And so we're putting meaning
00:38:05.969 --> 00:38:08.070
onto things that don't have meaning. And that's
00:38:08.070 --> 00:38:10.230
what I was saying about Star Wars before is people
00:38:10.230 --> 00:38:13.590
can see this thing that is so broad. And George
00:38:13.590 --> 00:38:17.110
Lucas made this very broad kind of commentary
00:38:17.110 --> 00:38:21.639
on Vietnam. And anyone can put themselves into
00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:24.280
Luke Skywalker. Anyone can say that the person
00:38:24.280 --> 00:38:26.699
they hate is Darth Vader. Anyone. And they just
00:38:26.699 --> 00:38:30.699
can't get the point. Yeah, and here, like, they
00:38:30.699 --> 00:38:34.250
have taken... what is usually, you know, like
00:38:34.250 --> 00:38:38.190
the prison escape genre, maybe it has a downer
00:38:38.190 --> 00:38:40.449
ending, but when it has, when they get out, that's
00:38:40.449 --> 00:38:43.750
usually like a big uplifting moment, right? But
00:38:43.750 --> 00:38:47.949
here we are in the aftermath of that, and it
00:38:47.949 --> 00:38:49.989
doesn't really feel like they've escaped. Yeah,
00:38:50.070 --> 00:38:52.010
this is not Shawshank Redemption. This is not
00:38:52.010 --> 00:38:54.469
Shawshank Redemption. It's not like, oh my God,
00:38:54.510 --> 00:38:58.190
they made it, and now Cassian Andor is a free
00:38:58.190 --> 00:39:00.840
man. He's not. He still lives under the thumb
00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:05.199
of this fascist. Do you think there was a chance
00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:06.840
that this scene was originally at the end of
00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:08.320
the last episode and they were leaving it on
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:12.320
a cliffhanger? I don't think so. No. Yeah, it's
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:15.480
a cliffhanger. That's very cute. I think it's
00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:19.659
ironic. Yeah. I think it's a commentary on what
00:39:19.659 --> 00:39:22.039
you would expect to see at the end of an episode
00:39:22.039 --> 00:39:24.719
for sure. But yeah, because they're hanging here
00:39:24.719 --> 00:39:27.500
and there's all these close -ups of their hands
00:39:27.500 --> 00:39:30.780
and their feet and they're so bloody. And they
00:39:30.780 --> 00:39:36.980
do not look like they're in a good place. They're
00:39:36.980 --> 00:39:40.239
in a way more dangerous situation than they even
00:39:40.239 --> 00:39:43.000
were diving into the ocean. The first thing you
00:39:43.000 --> 00:39:48.039
see in this episode is a bloody foot. And I think
00:39:48.039 --> 00:39:51.920
that's important to... hammering home what this
00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:56.039
show is about you get the the dramatic success
00:39:56.039 --> 00:39:59.940
of escape but then the show says actually it's
00:39:59.940 --> 00:40:04.119
not over there's more to do it's it's it's uh
00:40:04.119 --> 00:40:08.599
from one peril to the next and the entire two
00:40:08.599 --> 00:40:13.239
season run of this show into rogue one is these
00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:16.320
characters are never truly free These characters
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:18.960
are always being put through the meat grinder.
00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:22.820
And there's a catharsis to that for people of
00:40:22.820 --> 00:40:26.900
the modern era who feel the same way. The struggle
00:40:26.900 --> 00:40:34.260
continues. Indeed. But we leave, you know, we
00:40:34.260 --> 00:40:37.599
end this scene with the image of Cassian and
00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:41.860
Melchi hanging against the... cliff and we get
00:40:41.860 --> 00:40:44.519
to see just how high up they are and then the
00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:49.539
image dissolves into a blinding white liquid
00:40:49.539 --> 00:40:54.300
and we see that we're staring into the eyes to
00:40:54.300 --> 00:40:57.460
the eye of b2 emo well we don't know it's a liquid
00:40:57.460 --> 00:40:59.679
yet it's just sort of this weird abstracted shape
00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:04.099
which is rare for star wars There's like a fluidity
00:41:04.099 --> 00:41:06.519
to it for sure. But yeah, we don't know what
00:41:06.519 --> 00:41:10.400
it is at first. We're just so focused in on B's
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:14.320
eyes looking out as he's listening to the voices
00:41:14.320 --> 00:41:18.679
of people in the room talking about, you know,
00:41:18.719 --> 00:41:22.860
Marva and how heartbreaking it is that Cassian
00:41:22.860 --> 00:41:26.440
is in here. And then what are we going to do
00:41:26.440 --> 00:41:30.139
about the droid? And when he hears that, poor
00:41:30.139 --> 00:41:35.059
little B. starts shaking so violently that the
00:41:35.059 --> 00:41:38.980
cup of calf sitting on his head rumbles off and
00:41:38.980 --> 00:41:43.400
gets caught by a good old reliable Brasso. And
00:41:43.400 --> 00:41:48.000
Brasso, at this point, makes it clear to the
00:41:48.000 --> 00:41:53.849
audience that Marva has passed. If B wants a
00:41:53.849 --> 00:41:56.610
minute, you know, to say goodbye to her, they'll
00:41:56.610 --> 00:41:59.909
even clear the room so he can have alone time
00:41:59.909 --> 00:42:03.789
with her. But B doesn't want to be alone. He
00:42:03.789 --> 00:42:11.730
wants Marva. And Brasso, you know, tries to help
00:42:11.730 --> 00:42:16.119
the little guy. move on or at least get his mind
00:42:16.119 --> 00:42:21.139
off it by telling him that jesse has a jesse
00:42:21.139 --> 00:42:24.360
and the daughters of pharix require his help
00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:29.460
in matters of grave importance and so here we
00:42:29.460 --> 00:42:32.980
are with with our beloved marva dying off screen
00:42:32.980 --> 00:42:36.119
um rp marva and or you taught me it was okay
00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:40.019
to be weird it's only a choice to have her die
00:42:40.019 --> 00:42:44.110
uh between episodes I think it's probably for
00:42:44.110 --> 00:42:46.469
the best. I mean, we're Cassian. We don't get
00:42:46.469 --> 00:42:48.510
to see it happen. It's right. We're told about
00:42:48.510 --> 00:42:51.250
it. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's really bracing.
00:42:51.289 --> 00:42:55.849
And it makes her absence like in this episode.
00:42:56.329 --> 00:42:59.329
It puts us in Cassian's shoes. Right. That like
00:42:59.329 --> 00:43:02.289
before we even knew it, she was gone before we
00:43:02.289 --> 00:43:05.329
could come back. And then I think it will also
00:43:05.329 --> 00:43:09.369
pay off in the finale. Right? When we get to
00:43:09.369 --> 00:43:10.849
see her again. Yeah, the hologram stuff. When
00:43:10.849 --> 00:43:13.050
we get to be in her presence again. Exactly.
00:43:13.110 --> 00:43:17.309
Like, it's better that way. The last real statement
00:43:17.309 --> 00:43:20.929
from her is that hologram speech. Mm -hmm. Yeah.
00:43:21.309 --> 00:43:23.170
I know we talk a lot, like, they've talked about
00:43:23.170 --> 00:43:26.369
B2Emo as, like, her pet dog. But there's something
00:43:26.369 --> 00:43:28.309
about this scene that almost makes me feel like
00:43:28.309 --> 00:43:31.809
it's, like, somebody with, like, Alzheimer's.
00:43:31.809 --> 00:43:33.829
Like, that's, like, I, it's almost more like
00:43:33.829 --> 00:43:35.309
her husband of, like, I want to see her. And
00:43:35.309 --> 00:43:36.989
they're, like, they can't really tell her that
00:43:36.989 --> 00:43:39.579
she's gone. He sort of can't really internalize
00:43:39.579 --> 00:43:40.920
it. There's something about it that's much more
00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:43.639
human than I think B2 has been in earlier scenes.
00:43:44.659 --> 00:43:46.579
Yeah, I don't think that there's ever been a
00:43:46.579 --> 00:43:51.099
droid in Star Wars where you really feel like
00:43:51.099 --> 00:43:54.380
they have any sort of emotional connection. Obviously,
00:43:54.440 --> 00:44:00.000
C -3PO and R2 -D2 are characters who care about
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:02.340
Luke and Han and Leia, but you never believe
00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:06.840
it in a sincere way. It's sort of like a heightened...
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:11.179
sci -fi way of like oh no are they okay but it's
00:44:11.179 --> 00:44:16.260
never been like i have grief like grief has never
00:44:16.260 --> 00:44:19.760
flashed over the face of a droid it's always
00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:23.079
been played as a punchline Right? Like, C -3PO
00:44:23.079 --> 00:44:26.179
and R2, like, are as much a member of the team
00:44:26.179 --> 00:44:30.099
as anybody else in the Rebellion. But when C
00:44:30.099 --> 00:44:32.840
-3PO gets blown up, it's, you know, played as
00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:35.139
a joke that he gets carried around in a pile
00:44:35.139 --> 00:44:39.539
of scrap on Chewie's back. I think the only other
00:44:39.539 --> 00:44:43.820
character that even gets close to that is Alex's
00:44:43.820 --> 00:44:49.420
beloved L -337 in Solo. That's a whole other
00:44:49.420 --> 00:44:52.480
story. Yeah. Yeah, who, you know, maybe doesn't
00:44:52.480 --> 00:44:56.880
show grief, but is, you know, able to share other
00:44:56.880 --> 00:45:00.000
emotions that we don't usually see droids get
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:03.860
to have. The robot with two backs. I think the
00:45:03.860 --> 00:45:07.480
only time before this where I felt like they
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:11.360
had feelings, like real, like human feelings.
00:45:11.929 --> 00:45:16.150
was the scene in return of the jedi inside jabba's
00:45:16.150 --> 00:45:18.949
palace where one of the droids is being tortured
00:45:18.949 --> 00:45:22.210
yeah they put the like hot metal thing and he
00:45:22.210 --> 00:45:26.869
goes oh oh they have they have pain receptors
00:45:26.869 --> 00:45:31.570
um they're kind of like people and i think yeah
00:45:31.570 --> 00:45:34.050
there's an interesting thing about solo where
00:45:34.050 --> 00:45:37.230
it's like oh these are these are uh an oppressed
00:45:37.230 --> 00:45:41.289
minority the droids and then they don't have
00:45:41.289 --> 00:45:46.829
rights, but they also want them. They're sentient.
00:45:47.369 --> 00:45:52.130
And you get the taste of the sort of quote -unquote
00:45:52.130 --> 00:45:56.769
racism against droids in A New Hope, where the
00:45:56.769 --> 00:46:01.269
bartender's like, no droids here. Why? Why are
00:46:01.269 --> 00:46:04.170
droids not allowed? Are they bad? Are they an
00:46:04.170 --> 00:46:05.829
underclass? Dave, you've been doing a lot of
00:46:05.829 --> 00:46:08.170
reporting about clankers, as they like to call
00:46:08.170 --> 00:46:11.010
them lately. i know you've written about like
00:46:11.010 --> 00:46:14.969
schools with ai and yeah yeah and uh what was
00:46:14.969 --> 00:46:18.469
the other one uh you had did you think about
00:46:18.469 --> 00:46:22.170
schools and you also did the uh what was it the
00:46:22.170 --> 00:46:25.409
the net then the meat kits The education ones
00:46:25.409 --> 00:46:27.989
for small kids and tracking your baby's biometrics.
00:46:28.230 --> 00:46:30.730
Oh, yeah, yeah. You have cameras where it can
00:46:30.730 --> 00:46:32.889
tell you when your baby falls asleep and doesn't
00:46:32.889 --> 00:46:36.289
and how many flutters of their eyelids they do
00:46:36.289 --> 00:46:39.349
and all the stuff that we don't need to know.
00:46:39.489 --> 00:46:41.190
So my question is, are we the guy at the bar
00:46:41.190 --> 00:46:44.309
going, no clankers in here? Are we the people
00:46:44.309 --> 00:46:47.099
now who are going to... I mean, the reason they're
00:46:47.099 --> 00:46:49.139
at that point is because they just went through
00:46:49.139 --> 00:46:52.119
a whole war where droids were on the other side
00:46:52.119 --> 00:46:54.900
of it. So there's like a prejudice that's developed
00:46:54.900 --> 00:46:58.880
over that time. You have now added meaning to
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:04.300
a meaningless film where George Lucas had no
00:47:04.300 --> 00:47:07.889
idea that was going to happen. I mean, the only
00:47:07.889 --> 00:47:10.809
mention of the war before was it's a clone war.
00:47:11.050 --> 00:47:14.690
Yeah. The clone wars are over now. But the idea
00:47:14.690 --> 00:47:20.050
of the Trade Federation battle droids being evil.
00:47:20.699 --> 00:47:22.860
and everyone hating them is an interesting thing
00:47:22.860 --> 00:47:27.260
to look at in hindsight. Did people in Galaxy
00:47:27.260 --> 00:47:30.519
Far, Far Away have a resentment towards droids
00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:32.500
because of the Trade Federation? I don't know.
00:47:32.579 --> 00:47:35.320
Maybe we could say that, certainly. Nobody's
00:47:35.320 --> 00:47:36.980
picked up on that thread, but it's an interesting
00:47:36.980 --> 00:47:41.599
thing to talk about. And to Alex's question,
00:47:41.800 --> 00:47:44.719
I think yes, unfortunately. We will end up being
00:47:44.719 --> 00:47:48.159
those people hating the droids. I know I feel
00:47:48.159 --> 00:47:51.719
that way every time I see a Waymo. It's a great
00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:55.880
ride, though, let me tell you. I hate to say
00:47:55.880 --> 00:47:59.280
this, because now I'm selling out the human race.
00:47:59.619 --> 00:48:03.099
But the human race has unfortunately proven itself
00:48:03.099 --> 00:48:07.699
to be problematic. You won't hear any argument
00:48:07.699 --> 00:48:11.940
against that here. Being in an Uber or even a
00:48:11.940 --> 00:48:15.500
regular taxi cab, it's like, you have made this
00:48:15.500 --> 00:48:19.019
so unpleasant that I would rather be in a car.
00:48:20.100 --> 00:48:24.559
operated remotely in some foreign country than
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:27.940
be with you. And that's a terrible thing. But
00:48:27.940 --> 00:48:31.920
Uber has ruined it. Taxicabs were not great.
00:48:32.059 --> 00:48:34.300
You watch any movie in the 20th century, people
00:48:34.300 --> 00:48:38.239
are complaining about taxicab drivers. It's an
00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:41.239
awful experience to be in, especially if you've
00:48:41.239 --> 00:48:44.269
been out. at a bar or a club or something and
00:48:44.269 --> 00:48:45.829
somebody wants to have a conversation with you
00:48:45.829 --> 00:48:48.190
and maybe you're feeling sick or whatever, you
00:48:48.190 --> 00:48:50.389
don't want to hear their music or smell whatever
00:48:50.389 --> 00:48:52.730
food they've been eating or the cigarettes they've
00:48:52.730 --> 00:48:56.329
been smoking or hear about their delusions of
00:48:56.329 --> 00:48:58.570
grandeur. One time I took an Uber and someone
00:48:58.570 --> 00:49:00.809
told me that he thought he might be Jesus. And
00:49:00.809 --> 00:49:03.289
I'm like, well, maybe a robot will come along
00:49:03.289 --> 00:49:06.650
and save me from this. What was the might be?
00:49:06.849 --> 00:49:12.630
I had this thought that it's possible. that I
00:49:12.630 --> 00:49:16.389
could maybe potentially have some divinity in
00:49:16.389 --> 00:49:19.690
me. And I'm like, this is my stop. That's right
00:49:19.690 --> 00:49:21.889
there. Just drop me here. Just roll me out like
00:49:21.889 --> 00:49:28.590
a cannonball. Yeah, unfortunately, we have this
00:49:28.590 --> 00:49:33.809
system where the drivers of these cars are...
00:49:34.969 --> 00:49:39.670
Sometimes insane. Or too chatty. And you get
00:49:39.670 --> 00:49:42.530
into this vehicle that is going to take you where
00:49:42.530 --> 00:49:45.210
you want to go. You play your own music. It's
00:49:45.210 --> 00:49:47.750
air -conditioned. It's quiet if you want it to
00:49:47.750 --> 00:49:49.449
be quiet. It's loud if you want it to be loud.
00:49:51.809 --> 00:49:54.429
Maybe the robots aren't so bad. I don't know.
00:49:55.030 --> 00:49:57.710
This is not a very well -cooked theory, but while
00:49:57.710 --> 00:49:59.230
you're saying this, it almost occurred to me,
00:49:59.289 --> 00:50:02.530
like, is the fact that, like, taxi rides and...
00:50:03.099 --> 00:50:08.360
Ubers are a rare situation where we as people
00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:10.880
are paying somebody else to do something and
00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:13.179
we just have to sit with that fact for a prolonged
00:50:13.179 --> 00:50:16.179
period of time like there's no mediation between
00:50:16.179 --> 00:50:18.900
like I am paying you to do this for me and I
00:50:18.900 --> 00:50:20.960
am superior to you because I gave you this thing
00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:24.159
to do this for me and that like having that contradiction
00:50:24.159 --> 00:50:26.159
of like I'm not forcing a human being to drive
00:50:26.159 --> 00:50:29.380
me to LAX this is just me and a machine there's
00:50:29.380 --> 00:50:32.659
nobody else involved there's some lack of complicity
00:50:32.659 --> 00:50:35.019
there i don't know i don't know if it's that
00:50:35.019 --> 00:50:37.239
per se i don't know because there are so many
00:50:37.239 --> 00:50:39.280
instances where you have someone do something
00:50:39.280 --> 00:50:43.179
intimate for a service right like for a fee you
00:50:43.179 --> 00:50:46.940
know a service for a fee a haircut right a massage
00:50:46.940 --> 00:50:52.579
therapy um there is an inherent power imbalance
00:50:52.579 --> 00:50:55.619
all of those things you your housekeeper your
00:50:55.619 --> 00:50:58.880
gardener if you can afford such a wonderful uh
00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:04.599
luxury I think the difference is that in a cab,
00:51:04.780 --> 00:51:09.239
in an Uber, a Lyft, whatever it is, different
00:51:09.239 --> 00:51:14.880
from a subway car, different from any bus, you
00:51:14.880 --> 00:51:19.679
are not one of many. You are in a one -on -one
00:51:19.679 --> 00:51:25.239
environment with a stranger. It is so intimate
00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:27.860
in a way that any other form of transportation
00:51:27.860 --> 00:51:32.800
isn't. You have to figure out how to have a conversation
00:51:32.800 --> 00:51:37.699
with a stranger who also has your life in their
00:51:37.699 --> 00:51:41.800
hands. They could make a wrong turn. They could
00:51:41.800 --> 00:51:45.539
speed through a stoplight. They could not take
00:51:45.539 --> 00:51:47.860
you home and take you into a field and shoot
00:51:47.860 --> 00:51:50.840
you in the face. They could do all these horrible
00:51:50.840 --> 00:51:52.920
things. Or they could have a bad conversation
00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:56.260
with you. It's not going to happen that way on
00:51:56.260 --> 00:52:00.820
a subway car or on a bus. Those sort of egalitarian
00:52:00.820 --> 00:52:05.460
communal environments feel safer to me than,
00:52:05.519 --> 00:52:08.920
okay, a person is picking me up in their car,
00:52:09.139 --> 00:52:11.639
their personal car. Yeah, that's the difference.
00:52:11.860 --> 00:52:15.059
Whatever is in the car. Whatever is not in the
00:52:15.059 --> 00:52:19.179
car. Like, does the seatbelt work? Can I plug
00:52:19.179 --> 00:52:22.800
in my phone? Do they want to have a conversation
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:26.159
with me about my career and try to network with
00:52:26.159 --> 00:52:28.179
me? This happens in L .A. and New York all the
00:52:28.179 --> 00:52:32.059
time. Do they want to ask me about my personal
00:52:32.059 --> 00:52:35.420
life? Do they have delusions of grandeur? Whatever
00:52:35.420 --> 00:52:40.340
it is, if you're a woman or another vulnerable
00:52:40.340 --> 00:52:44.139
part of our society, a trans person, whatever,
00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:46.920
are they going to do something horrible to you?
00:52:47.659 --> 00:52:50.599
That doesn't necessarily happen on a bus or on
00:52:50.599 --> 00:52:53.900
the subway. That's the scary part to me, is it's
00:52:53.900 --> 00:53:00.699
way too intimate and way too intimate for a situation
00:53:00.699 --> 00:53:03.179
where it's just you and a stranger. I mean, a
00:53:03.179 --> 00:53:05.559
danger Mon Mothra will warn in future episodes.
00:53:06.059 --> 00:53:09.460
Yeah, exactly, right? Like, who's driving her
00:53:09.460 --> 00:53:12.940
spaceship, right? Like, somebody who might be
00:53:12.940 --> 00:53:15.059
working as a spy for the Empire. We don't know.
00:53:18.179 --> 00:53:21.280
Yes. We don't know. But we do know. I was going
00:53:21.280 --> 00:53:25.679
to say, have you ever seen Good Morning by Yasujiro
00:53:25.679 --> 00:53:28.739
Ozu? I actually haven't seen that movie, but
00:53:28.739 --> 00:53:31.179
I love Ozu as a director. It's mostly just about,
00:53:31.239 --> 00:53:34.360
like, the people going, like, why do we just
00:53:34.360 --> 00:53:36.539
say all of these banalities of, like, how's the
00:53:36.539 --> 00:53:38.719
weather? How are you doing? And I feel like if
00:53:38.719 --> 00:53:40.780
he had to deal with Ubers, he would have, that'd
00:53:40.780 --> 00:53:42.539
be a very different movie of just, like, having,
00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:45.659
like, the banality of these things. And then,
00:53:45.659 --> 00:53:49.840
yeah. I always click quiet ride when I order
00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:53.019
an Uber, and they don't listen to that. I always
00:53:53.019 --> 00:53:55.460
say I want it to be cold. They don't listen to
00:53:55.460 --> 00:53:57.699
that. They do what they want. They talk to you
00:53:57.699 --> 00:53:59.300
if they want to talk to you. They have a heater
00:53:59.300 --> 00:54:01.559
on when it's 90 degrees outside if they want.
00:54:01.800 --> 00:54:04.320
They don't care. It's more akin to being at Norquina
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:08.320
5 is what we're saying. It's kind of like that.
00:54:08.420 --> 00:54:10.980
Yeah, it feels like a little driving prison.
00:54:12.739 --> 00:54:17.420
Well. Poor B2, he's trapped here in the house
00:54:17.420 --> 00:54:20.980
as Marva gets taken outside, and she gets put
00:54:20.980 --> 00:54:23.880
on a lift that is driven by a human, I will say.
00:54:23.900 --> 00:54:29.980
Thank God. And everybody out on the street, you
00:54:29.980 --> 00:54:35.539
know, watches in silence, except for one person,
00:54:35.619 --> 00:54:39.420
one man inside the calf shop who takes a sip
00:54:39.420 --> 00:54:41.719
of his coffee. Can I stop you for one second
00:54:41.719 --> 00:54:43.780
before you? Yeah, yeah, what's up? I love that
00:54:43.780 --> 00:54:46.320
the last scene starts with us looking right through
00:54:46.320 --> 00:54:50.739
B2's eye. And in the next shot, as the camera
00:54:50.739 --> 00:54:53.500
pans, the first thing we see is a round window
00:54:53.500 --> 00:54:56.019
of them on the streets. Yeah. Like that little
00:54:56.019 --> 00:54:58.280
virtual narrative of we saw through B2's eye
00:54:58.280 --> 00:55:00.599
and now you're seeing through this separate round
00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:02.820
eye of what's happening outside. I just thought
00:55:02.820 --> 00:55:04.739
it was a nice look. Yeah, I was going to comment
00:55:04.739 --> 00:55:08.360
on the fact that we, in this moment, don't get
00:55:08.360 --> 00:55:12.420
to be on the street. We're observing still. Yeah.
00:55:12.780 --> 00:55:17.400
And obviously later on, we're in the thing, right?
00:55:17.440 --> 00:55:22.179
We're in this monumental moment where the forces
00:55:22.179 --> 00:55:27.380
of this culture standing up against a dictatorship
00:55:27.380 --> 00:55:35.059
are right in the path of this army and the confrontation
00:55:35.059 --> 00:55:37.119
and how that's going to play out. But at the
00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:39.480
beginning, you know, as we go into this episode,
00:55:39.679 --> 00:55:42.510
there's this distance from it. We're not quite
00:55:42.510 --> 00:55:45.289
there yet, but we know what's happening. And
00:55:45.289 --> 00:55:49.550
so much of this episode is about this. We know
00:55:49.550 --> 00:55:54.030
this is going to happen. The Empire is preparing
00:55:54.030 --> 00:55:57.929
for a confrontation that they want. And that's
00:55:57.929 --> 00:55:59.929
so fascinating about the show is that all of
00:55:59.929 --> 00:56:02.389
the confrontations are things that they want.
00:56:03.170 --> 00:56:06.070
It's never like, oh, this is a real like this
00:56:06.070 --> 00:56:09.670
powder keg is just bound to happen. It's there
00:56:09.670 --> 00:56:13.019
are machinations. The ISB is planning all of
00:56:13.019 --> 00:56:15.000
this. And that's the scariest part of the show.
00:56:15.179 --> 00:56:19.519
It's like you as a person, hypothetically, presumably,
00:56:19.639 --> 00:56:24.079
that sides with the rebels, with the oppressed
00:56:24.079 --> 00:56:28.019
peoples of this show are like, yeah, you got
00:56:28.019 --> 00:56:31.019
to stick it to them. Fight back. But that's what
00:56:31.019 --> 00:56:33.059
they want. And that's an interesting thing because
00:56:33.059 --> 00:56:36.420
when you think about Minnesota, Minneapolis,
00:56:36.699 --> 00:56:42.199
and the confrontations with... ice in that town
00:56:42.199 --> 00:56:46.159
i think a lot of people's instinct was stick
00:56:46.159 --> 00:56:49.019
it to them you know blow up a car or like you
00:56:49.019 --> 00:56:51.659
know punch somebody in the face but that was
00:56:51.659 --> 00:56:54.019
the whole point of the thing and that's why i
00:56:54.019 --> 00:56:56.719
keep coming back to andor is because there's
00:56:56.719 --> 00:57:01.139
a really clear roadmap for how these moments
00:57:01.139 --> 00:57:06.199
of authoritarianism like they grow it's because
00:57:06.199 --> 00:57:10.139
they want the antagonism. They crave that. And
00:57:10.139 --> 00:57:13.119
I think one of the great things about what we
00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:17.000
went through with that was the level of restraint.
00:57:17.800 --> 00:57:20.739
I mean, you go to season two of this show, and
00:57:20.739 --> 00:57:24.039
you go to Gorman, and you see, like, they want
00:57:24.039 --> 00:57:25.960
to fight back really bad. But again, that's,
00:57:25.960 --> 00:57:29.139
they want the gore to fight them. They want them
00:57:29.139 --> 00:57:32.500
to blow something up. They want the confrontation
00:57:32.500 --> 00:57:35.900
so that they have the pretext to take them off
00:57:35.900 --> 00:57:39.889
the planet. And this is a fascinating part of
00:57:39.889 --> 00:57:42.989
the show is to see that play out in a fictional
00:57:42.989 --> 00:57:45.070
context. What's interesting is we just ended
00:57:45.070 --> 00:57:47.130
on Luthan's speech where he sort of talks about
00:57:47.130 --> 00:57:51.829
that it is his politics to immunitize those moments
00:57:51.829 --> 00:57:54.409
of conflict and how much he's had to destroy
00:57:54.409 --> 00:57:56.610
himself over doing that, knowing that by doing
00:57:56.610 --> 00:57:59.429
this, he is killing good people in order to create
00:57:59.429 --> 00:58:01.909
these situations where the conflict happens.
00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:07.840
Yeah, Luthan and the ISB are both trying to manufacture
00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:11.739
moments. They're trying to create theater. Saw,
00:58:11.980 --> 00:58:14.300
on the other hand, just wants to blow stuff up.
00:58:14.400 --> 00:58:17.699
He doesn't really have any sort of high -level
00:58:17.699 --> 00:58:20.440
thinking, and that's why he's kind of a splinter
00:58:20.440 --> 00:58:23.260
group within the Rebellion. It's because he's
00:58:23.260 --> 00:58:26.019
just like, well, let's just get some bombs and
00:58:26.019 --> 00:58:29.559
let's get some blasters and see what we can accomplish
00:58:29.559 --> 00:58:34.159
with that. But Luthen is very, very focused on
00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:37.619
what are the optics of this? How do we be smart
00:58:37.619 --> 00:58:40.780
about this? How do I, and also Mon Mothma, how
00:58:40.780 --> 00:58:43.820
do we do this thing in the shadows versus out
00:58:43.820 --> 00:58:45.940
in the open? And I think that's a conflict and
00:58:45.940 --> 00:58:49.519
it's a tension that is expressed more in season
00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:56.349
two where Cassian ends up on Yavin 4. And they're
00:58:56.349 --> 00:58:58.889
like, just be part of this thing. Just be part
00:58:58.889 --> 00:59:00.550
of this thing. And he's like, nah, I'm good.
00:59:00.590 --> 00:59:02.130
I don't want to be part of this thing because
00:59:02.130 --> 00:59:04.909
I'm going to do my thing in the shadows. I'm
00:59:04.909 --> 00:59:07.230
going to do this on my own terms. I don't need
00:59:07.230 --> 00:59:10.690
to be part of this big, bright, brilliant rebellion.
00:59:11.010 --> 00:59:14.550
I have another reason for doing what I'm doing.
00:59:16.869 --> 00:59:20.130
Yeah, and in this moment, you know, the opening
00:59:20.130 --> 00:59:24.550
of this scene, we were there with Bea. who has
00:59:24.550 --> 00:59:27.929
one of the most intimate relationships with Marva.
00:59:28.050 --> 00:59:32.190
And now in this moment, we cut to the complete
00:59:32.190 --> 00:59:35.010
opposite side of the spectrum, which is this
00:59:35.010 --> 00:59:38.590
imperial spy who is just standing there keeping
00:59:38.590 --> 00:59:44.329
guard on her. And then we see Cinta finish cleaning
00:59:44.329 --> 00:59:48.329
up the tables outside the calf shop. And we see
00:59:48.329 --> 00:59:51.730
that she's a much... better spy and more capable
00:59:51.730 --> 00:59:55.610
at blending into the situation. And the guy asks
00:59:55.610 --> 00:59:59.849
her if she knows whoever's died, but Cinta plays
00:59:59.849 --> 01:00:04.929
dumb and ignores him. Although, yeah, Cinta plays
01:00:04.929 --> 01:00:08.269
dumb and ignores him, but I think in this moment
01:00:08.269 --> 01:00:11.630
she can tell exactly who he is and what his purpose
01:00:11.630 --> 01:00:16.239
is here. It's a stupid question to ask. Yeah,
01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:18.840
if you're trying to blend in the moves. Who's
01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:23.579
that? Come on. So are you just recently moving
01:00:23.579 --> 01:00:27.659
to Ferrix? Like, what the fuck? The jacket that's
01:00:27.659 --> 01:00:29.699
clearly just been worn once and never folded.
01:00:30.139 --> 01:00:33.519
Which is a classic move, as we've seen, you know,
01:00:33.519 --> 01:00:36.639
in various real world situations. Like, those
01:00:36.639 --> 01:00:38.519
Timberlands that you're wearing and that Yankee
01:00:38.519 --> 01:00:40.900
hat, they seem like they were just purchased
01:00:40.900 --> 01:00:44.090
at a Marshall's. He got the Carhartt work in
01:00:44.090 --> 01:00:47.670
progress, not the Carhartt work wear. Exactly.
01:00:47.849 --> 01:00:52.750
Yep, that's dead giveaway. But yeah, we get to
01:00:52.750 --> 01:00:57.349
see that things are dangerous for Cassian here
01:00:57.349 --> 01:01:03.369
on Ferex as well. But with that, we head over
01:01:03.369 --> 01:01:04.989
back to him. The Empire is bad at their jobs
01:01:04.989 --> 01:01:06.949
because for them to actually understand these
01:01:06.949 --> 01:01:09.590
local people would require people who have certain
01:01:09.590 --> 01:01:11.670
skills that are... against what the Empire would
01:01:11.670 --> 01:01:14.449
otherwise be doing. Somebody who would be good
01:01:14.449 --> 01:01:16.409
at understanding what it's like and how do you,
01:01:16.429 --> 01:01:19.010
you know, mingle in here comes from a certain
01:01:19.010 --> 01:01:21.230
place of curiosity or intelligence that the Empire
01:01:21.230 --> 01:01:24.269
usually does not want. And that plays out very
01:01:24.269 --> 01:01:27.730
clearly in Season 2 on Gorman, where you send
01:01:27.730 --> 01:01:30.869
the biggest doofus to infiltrate the Resistance,
01:01:31.070 --> 01:01:33.130
and they're like, we don't trust this guy at
01:01:33.130 --> 01:01:36.309
all. Who is this little weasel? Why does he keep
01:01:36.309 --> 01:01:41.360
wanting to join our signal chats? Exactly. Yes.
01:01:42.440 --> 01:01:46.539
Let me find my spot. Okay. Out on the Sandy Inlet,
01:01:46.619 --> 01:01:50.099
we find two aliens arguing around broken crates
01:01:50.099 --> 01:01:53.780
in an unsubtitled language. Thankfully, we now
01:01:53.780 --> 01:01:57.239
know their names are Dewey Pamular, a Coretian,
01:01:57.440 --> 01:02:01.179
as first seen in Rogue One, and Freedy... No,
01:02:01.239 --> 01:02:04.179
is it also Pamular? Yeah, they're brothers. Oh,
01:02:04.179 --> 01:02:05.400
they're brothers, but they're different creatures,
01:02:05.579 --> 01:02:08.559
right? They, you know, they have different heads,
01:02:08.599 --> 01:02:11.489
but they're brothers. An alien of unknown origin.
01:02:11.690 --> 01:02:16.190
I guess he's a crystal Coretian. I've seen conflicting
01:02:16.190 --> 01:02:17.730
reports whether they're the same creature or
01:02:17.730 --> 01:02:21.329
not. I think they're like brothers of the struggle,
01:02:21.469 --> 01:02:23.650
not brothers of the flesh. Brothers from different
01:02:23.650 --> 01:02:28.809
mothers? It's like twins. Or like that movie
01:02:28.809 --> 01:02:31.469
Four Brothers. There's two more of them. There's
01:02:31.469 --> 01:02:35.190
a Mark Wahlberg and an Andre 3000. There's one
01:02:35.190 --> 01:02:39.949
black brother and it's fine. It was my test to
01:02:39.949 --> 01:02:43.590
try and describe these guys, which was fun. Dewey
01:02:43.590 --> 01:02:45.630
is the taller of the two. His face looks like
01:02:45.630 --> 01:02:49.409
a deflated turtle, mushed on top of a stocky
01:02:49.409 --> 01:02:53.110
brown body with long arms, and a protruding belly
01:02:53.110 --> 01:02:55.670
under his fishnet shirt. He's wrapped himself
01:02:55.670 --> 01:02:58.670
in a sweater, some sort of floppy hat, and a
01:02:58.670 --> 01:03:01.269
contraption over one eye with a light lodge to
01:03:01.269 --> 01:03:03.170
his forehead. Is that a fair way of describing
01:03:03.170 --> 01:03:07.739
Dewey? Yeah, I think so. It's not kind, but it's
01:03:07.739 --> 01:03:13.340
fair. We'll get to the fashion later. Thank you.
01:03:13.480 --> 01:03:15.420
Freedy, the slightly more humanoid of the two,
01:03:15.539 --> 01:03:18.420
has a squashed human face covered in scars. His
01:03:18.420 --> 01:03:21.900
hair is in a disheveled samurai chonmage, sheared
01:03:21.900 --> 01:03:23.760
down the middle with long hair on either side
01:03:23.760 --> 01:03:26.920
and a bun in the back. I think the contrast is
01:03:26.920 --> 01:03:28.639
if Dewey is covering his chest and revealing
01:03:28.639 --> 01:03:31.420
his body, his belly, Freedy is the opposite,
01:03:31.559 --> 01:03:34.929
all chest, no stomach. In fact, his stomach kind
01:03:34.929 --> 01:03:36.690
of looks like Krang from Teenage Mutant Ninja
01:03:36.690 --> 01:03:40.750
Turtles. Frida's left arm is potentially intact
01:03:40.750 --> 01:03:44.130
or giant metal hand, but his right hand is gone,
01:03:44.250 --> 01:03:46.250
replaced by a sword knife thing that's very cool.
01:03:47.150 --> 01:03:52.289
It is very cool. Do we want to save diving deep
01:03:52.289 --> 01:03:55.130
into them? Yeah, maybe a little bit. Yes. Yeah,
01:03:55.190 --> 01:03:58.969
I can skip those guys. Okay, okay. Yes. So we
01:03:58.969 --> 01:04:00.989
pan up to see Melshi and Cassian watching them
01:04:00.989 --> 01:04:03.630
up on a cliff. Cassian points out they didn't
01:04:03.630 --> 01:04:06.210
walk here. They didn't walk here, so they must
01:04:06.210 --> 01:04:09.309
have gotten here somewhere else, some other way.
01:04:09.389 --> 01:04:12.050
So they crawl down to find a quad jumper, a little
01:04:12.050 --> 01:04:14.690
transport vehicle. Cassian's not sure if he can
01:04:14.690 --> 01:04:17.309
fly it. It's a bit of an antique, but they don't
01:04:17.309 --> 01:04:19.929
have much of a choice. And without warning, Melchie
01:04:19.929 --> 01:04:22.389
gets up and runs towards the jumper. Even if
01:04:22.389 --> 01:04:23.929
they saw it, he reasons, they wouldn't be able
01:04:23.929 --> 01:04:27.150
to stop them. He's right. The two aliens see
01:04:27.150 --> 01:04:30.829
them pace by, and the aliens simply as they watch.
01:04:31.420 --> 01:04:33.380
But then a device is activated and the two are
01:04:33.380 --> 01:04:36.639
bagged in a giant web of alien goo. Dewey laughs
01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:39.119
and they struggle as the gross nets pull them
01:04:39.119 --> 01:04:42.239
away from the quad jumper. I love that there's
01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:46.219
always a vehicle. For whatever reason, these
01:04:46.219 --> 01:04:49.179
planets are just littered with abandoned spaceships.
01:04:49.960 --> 01:04:52.460
I don't know how this always happens. Like, oh,
01:04:52.480 --> 01:04:55.460
there's a ship there. Well, this is their ship.
01:04:55.679 --> 01:04:58.099
Oh, it's their ship. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay.
01:04:58.239 --> 01:05:01.280
This is their beat -up, you know, Ford Bronco
01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:04.480
that they drove out to the fishing hole. Yeah,
01:05:04.579 --> 01:05:08.539
okay. I see. I just always feel like there is
01:05:08.539 --> 01:05:10.739
some sort of happenstance. But you're right.
01:05:10.780 --> 01:05:12.219
That is their ship, and they're going to steal
01:05:12.219 --> 01:05:16.519
it. They put a couple of buds in the trunk. They
01:05:16.519 --> 01:05:19.039
had a couple road beers on the way over. If you've
01:05:19.039 --> 01:05:22.619
been to West Texas, these are two guys from West
01:05:22.619 --> 01:05:25.860
Texas who are just drinking Coors Light. And
01:05:25.860 --> 01:05:28.719
pirates. West Texas and then also pirates. But
01:05:28.719 --> 01:05:30.659
we'll get there in a little bit. Yeah, yeah.
01:05:31.199 --> 01:05:34.079
I've got some info, some background info for
01:05:34.079 --> 01:05:40.230
that. Exciting. I do love that Melshi... wants
01:05:40.230 --> 01:05:42.829
to just run for it. Like throughout the Narkeena
01:05:42.829 --> 01:05:45.429
arc, we always see that he's not much of a planner.
01:05:45.550 --> 01:05:49.150
He's more of a doer. And meanwhile, Cassian is
01:05:49.150 --> 01:05:51.730
there like seeing all the angles. He's like,
01:05:51.730 --> 01:05:53.730
but you know, yes, there are two guys and they
01:05:53.730 --> 01:05:55.969
don't look like they're very fast. But what if
01:05:55.969 --> 01:05:58.250
there's a third guy, you know, taking a nap in
01:05:58.250 --> 01:06:02.130
the ship? He's able to see all the ways in which
01:06:02.130 --> 01:06:05.420
this can go wrong and prepare for that. And that's
01:06:05.420 --> 01:06:07.960
a microcosm of what the show is about, right?
01:06:07.960 --> 01:06:11.039
We were talking about this before with Lucian
01:06:11.039 --> 01:06:14.679
and Saw and the differences between these two
01:06:14.679 --> 01:06:17.860
kind of factions within the rebellion is one
01:06:17.860 --> 01:06:21.579
does and one plans and one thinks and one prepares.
01:06:22.059 --> 01:06:26.079
And people get frustrated with that idea of like,
01:06:26.139 --> 01:06:29.480
let's stop for a second. You can't really have
01:06:29.480 --> 01:06:35.260
a resistance movement of any kind without, thought
01:06:35.260 --> 01:06:38.920
behind it. But one can also think too long. Yeah,
01:06:38.940 --> 01:06:41.619
exactly. And that's a beautiful tension of the
01:06:41.619 --> 01:06:44.159
drama, right? It's like nobody's 100 % right.
01:06:45.079 --> 01:06:48.719
There needs to be a union of the two. And I think
01:06:48.719 --> 01:06:52.320
that's where you get to as you get to A New Hope.
01:06:52.539 --> 01:06:56.000
And the building of the Rebel Alliance is, yes,
01:06:56.019 --> 01:06:58.400
we have to be smart, but also at some point we've
01:06:58.400 --> 01:07:00.079
got to buy some more X -Wings and we've got to
01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:01.960
get some blasters and we've got to get some helmets
01:07:01.960 --> 01:07:03.460
and we've got to get out there and we have to
01:07:03.460 --> 01:07:08.840
stick it to them. We've got to blow up that Death
01:07:08.840 --> 01:07:14.360
Star. We sure do. FBI handlers who's listening.
01:07:14.659 --> 01:07:19.019
In three years. Yeah. They'll get there. We've
01:07:19.019 --> 01:07:21.679
got to let it get built first, I guess. They
01:07:21.679 --> 01:07:25.519
couldn't just attack it. But that's something
01:07:25.519 --> 01:07:27.800
that I think this show does touch on a little
01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:32.179
bit, not fully, and you get more of that, weirdly,
01:07:32.199 --> 01:07:36.250
in The Last Jedi, of the economics of... war
01:07:36.250 --> 01:07:40.570
in this universe where you do have to buy weapons
01:07:40.570 --> 01:07:43.469
you do have to buy spaceships you do have to
01:07:43.469 --> 01:07:46.369
have someone funding it the idea of you know
01:07:46.369 --> 01:07:49.130
mon mothra mothma secretly funding the rebellion
01:07:49.130 --> 01:07:51.789
and and where do they get the the money to to
01:07:51.789 --> 01:07:54.389
build these forces and and do these operations
01:07:54.389 --> 01:07:57.449
and then in last jedi it's like oh here are all
01:07:57.449 --> 01:07:59.869
these war profiteers who are thrilled at the
01:07:59.869 --> 01:08:02.289
idea of there being another conflict because
01:08:02.289 --> 01:08:05.559
they need to sell tie fighters to people and
01:08:05.559 --> 01:08:07.659
they need to sell X -Wings and they need to sell
01:08:07.659 --> 01:08:11.440
AT -ATs and that kind of thing. There's got to
01:08:11.440 --> 01:08:14.820
be some money involved in some way to build those
01:08:14.820 --> 01:08:17.479
forces. And so I imagine in those years between
01:08:17.479 --> 01:08:20.979
the end of the show and the bigger things that
01:08:20.979 --> 01:08:23.960
happen later in the films that there's, okay,
01:08:24.000 --> 01:08:26.039
we have to buy, let's see, we need how many of
01:08:26.039 --> 01:08:27.880
these? We need some of these. We need some of
01:08:27.880 --> 01:08:30.319
these. And who's going to get the money for it
01:08:30.319 --> 01:08:32.739
and where are we going to buy it from? in a clandestine
01:08:32.739 --> 01:08:36.800
way. Those practical things that go into actually
01:08:36.800 --> 01:08:40.119
waging war, Star Wars ignored for a long time
01:08:40.119 --> 01:08:43.319
because it's a fairy tale. But that's what we're
01:08:43.319 --> 01:08:45.060
interested in now, and that's what I'm interested
01:08:45.060 --> 01:08:47.979
in as an adult person, not a child. So we just
01:08:47.979 --> 01:08:50.159
did an episode reviewing the rise and fall of
01:08:50.159 --> 01:08:51.640
the Galactic Empire. I don't know if you've heard
01:08:51.640 --> 01:08:57.600
about this. They basically did the rise and fall
01:08:57.600 --> 01:09:01.300
of the Third Reich, but about Star Wars. It's
01:09:01.300 --> 01:09:05.199
like an in -universe history novel. Where do
01:09:05.199 --> 01:09:08.020
they pull their sources from? Do they just make
01:09:08.020 --> 01:09:10.199
up a bunch of stuff? Most of the things in it
01:09:10.199 --> 01:09:12.760
are real references, but it's written by a guy
01:09:12.760 --> 01:09:15.140
who's trying, like, from Exegol, trying to, like,
01:09:15.140 --> 01:09:17.880
put together what's happened over the last 60
01:09:17.880 --> 01:09:21.159
years. So it's taking historical analogs and
01:09:21.159 --> 01:09:23.020
applying it to the Star Wars universe. I mean,
01:09:23.020 --> 01:09:25.439
yeah, there's references that, like, the Wookiees
01:09:25.439 --> 01:09:30.840
had their own version of Showa. Oh, my God. The
01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:32.960
Wookiees are Jews now. Is everyone a Jew in this?
01:09:33.000 --> 01:09:36.819
That's kind of my takeaway from that book. I
01:09:36.819 --> 01:09:40.020
love that. In that book, he goes into detail
01:09:40.020 --> 01:09:43.039
on everything. But my critique of it at the time
01:09:43.039 --> 01:09:45.319
was that it does not really go into the aspect
01:09:45.319 --> 01:09:48.079
of capital. And I think that is the thing that
01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:52.380
you were talking before about what capitalism
01:09:52.380 --> 01:09:54.520
can create. And that is always the third rail
01:09:54.520 --> 01:09:57.050
is we can't really get into the aspect of. This
01:09:57.050 --> 01:09:59.729
evil is being derived out of the system that
01:09:59.729 --> 01:10:03.369
requires, you know, spending money for commerce.
01:10:03.590 --> 01:10:06.109
You know, it's to push people into doing things
01:10:06.109 --> 01:10:09.350
for money is the thing that is the most destructive.
01:10:09.449 --> 01:10:11.229
And we can't talk about that because that would,
01:10:11.310 --> 01:10:15.810
that's the form of presenting the, we exist under
01:10:15.810 --> 01:10:17.229
a capitalist system and this movie is being made
01:10:17.229 --> 01:10:18.909
under that. And I can't critique the thing that's
01:10:18.909 --> 01:10:20.810
making it. And that is the most fascinating thing
01:10:20.810 --> 01:10:24.710
about The Last Jedi. People malign the casino
01:10:24.710 --> 01:10:27.319
planet. I forget what it's called. It doesn't
01:10:27.319 --> 01:10:30.560
matter. But the Casino Planet second act, big
01:10:30.560 --> 01:10:32.579
chunk of the movie. People are like, why are
01:10:32.579 --> 01:10:36.180
we doing this? And who cares? And Finn and Rose
01:10:36.180 --> 01:10:39.180
are boring. And why do we have this, you know,
01:10:39.220 --> 01:10:41.640
Benicio Del Toro in the movie and all this stuff?
01:10:42.520 --> 01:10:47.300
But it is fundamental to what Rian Johnson wanted
01:10:47.300 --> 01:10:50.439
to say about Star Wars. And it is the most contemporary
01:10:50.439 --> 01:10:55.220
thing that is added to those movies. Everything
01:10:55.220 --> 01:10:59.819
else is either nostalgia bait or a direct remake
01:10:59.819 --> 01:11:03.199
of a thing we've seen before. The other two movies
01:11:03.199 --> 01:11:06.880
don't add any new ideas to Star Wars. It just
01:11:06.880 --> 01:11:09.560
says, Star Wars is being remade essentially.
01:11:10.220 --> 01:11:13.739
The bad guys are back. They wear very similar
01:11:13.739 --> 01:11:16.340
costumes. They have a similar logo. They're doing
01:11:16.340 --> 01:11:18.859
it all over again. Why, we don't know. Doesn't
01:11:18.859 --> 01:11:21.039
matter. Who cares? There's no ideology. They're
01:11:21.039 --> 01:11:25.170
just evil. But The Last Jedi says, well, This
01:11:25.170 --> 01:11:30.189
is being manufactured by the people who have
01:11:30.189 --> 01:11:32.890
the capital. And so now we're in this pleasure
01:11:32.890 --> 01:11:35.710
planet, this resort planet. Space Santa Monica.
01:11:36.829 --> 01:11:40.489
Exactly. Or Space Vegas or Space Monaco or wherever.
01:11:40.710 --> 01:11:45.550
Space Sun Valley, where all these people congregate
01:11:45.550 --> 01:11:47.369
and make decisions. I don't know whose tweet
01:11:47.369 --> 01:11:48.949
I'm stealing, but it was a really good joke.
01:11:49.010 --> 01:11:52.100
The Canto Bight arc is just a... Story about
01:11:52.100 --> 01:11:54.720
two minorities getting arrested on trumped up
01:11:54.720 --> 01:12:00.659
legal parking charges. Yeah. It's like if a black
01:12:00.659 --> 01:12:03.399
person and an Asian person went to Mar -a -Lago
01:12:03.399 --> 01:12:09.039
and just left their car on the course. And that's
01:12:09.039 --> 01:12:11.060
one of the reasons why I love that movie is it's
01:12:11.060 --> 01:12:14.119
like Rian Johnson said, how are we going to contemporize
01:12:14.119 --> 01:12:15.859
Star Wars and what can we bring to it that's
01:12:15.859 --> 01:12:20.409
different? People got so mad. People were mad
01:12:20.409 --> 01:12:22.409
about other things. No, no, I feel like Candlebite
01:12:22.409 --> 01:12:23.989
is the thing I routinely see as the thing people
01:12:23.989 --> 01:12:27.250
are maddest about. Yes, because they're not interacting
01:12:27.250 --> 01:12:30.590
with the idea. They're just mad that it doesn't
01:12:30.590 --> 01:12:34.170
relate to what's happening with the fleet, what's
01:12:34.170 --> 01:12:36.449
happening with Rey. It feels like a distraction.
01:12:36.689 --> 01:12:39.130
And also Finn is a character that was severely
01:12:39.130 --> 01:12:42.510
underwritten, that was designed to be more important,
01:12:42.670 --> 01:12:46.329
but was marginalized in that movie. And I think...
01:12:46.880 --> 01:12:49.000
I'm not going to criticize Rian Johnson for not
01:12:49.000 --> 01:12:52.020
giving John Boyega more to do because that's
01:12:52.020 --> 01:12:54.960
his business and I'm not the director of that
01:12:54.960 --> 01:12:57.640
film. I'm not the writer of that film. But at
01:12:57.640 --> 01:12:59.680
the same time, you watch that movie and it's
01:12:59.680 --> 01:13:01.100
like, oh, Finn doesn't really have much to do.
01:13:01.340 --> 01:13:03.260
Finn's just kind of there. And so you're following
01:13:03.260 --> 01:13:05.399
the least interesting character. And maybe that's
01:13:05.399 --> 01:13:08.340
partially because of how his arc played out in
01:13:08.340 --> 01:13:11.819
The Force Awakens. You're not as invested in
01:13:11.819 --> 01:13:15.060
his story as you are what's happening on the
01:13:15.060 --> 01:13:19.659
ship. on the capital ship of the fleet, and you're
01:13:19.659 --> 01:13:22.100
not as invested as you would be if it was Rey.
01:13:22.260 --> 01:13:25.460
You have the third lead, essentially, out of
01:13:25.460 --> 01:13:29.760
the three new leads, bumbling around a casino
01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:33.600
planet. But it's the core element of the movie,
01:13:33.699 --> 01:13:37.359
besides the end of it. The end of the movie directly
01:13:37.359 --> 01:13:40.840
ties back to the Canto Bight stuff, where you've
01:13:40.840 --> 01:13:43.859
got the little poor kid. And he realizes that
01:13:43.859 --> 01:13:46.840
he has the force and he can manipulate the broom
01:13:46.840 --> 01:13:50.199
or the mop or whatever. And that is the movie.
01:13:51.079 --> 01:13:54.180
And if you don't see why Canto Bight is important,
01:13:54.399 --> 01:13:56.619
you have ignored the entire movie because you're
01:13:56.619 --> 01:14:00.439
just mad that Luke Skywalker is training a woman
01:14:00.439 --> 01:14:03.659
because he dies and he doesn't get to kill everybody
01:14:03.659 --> 01:14:07.140
with a sword. And you're mad a woman with pink
01:14:07.140 --> 01:14:10.479
hair got to tell the cool starfighter guy that
01:14:10.479 --> 01:14:13.500
he was wrong. Exactly. Like you're focused on
01:14:13.500 --> 01:14:18.039
the wrong things. And that is the problem with
01:14:18.039 --> 01:14:20.939
our society. We're all focused on the wrong things.
01:14:21.079 --> 01:14:25.239
We're all focused on the identity politics when
01:14:25.239 --> 01:14:30.500
in reality the problem is class. And Last Jedi
01:14:30.500 --> 01:14:32.600
is a movie about class. Did you say the class
01:14:32.600 --> 01:14:37.880
Jedi? I got to tell Ryan Johnson about this idea.
01:14:38.079 --> 01:14:39.340
He's going to love it. He's like, I should call
01:14:39.340 --> 01:14:43.289
it that. Well, now that we have, you know, found
01:14:43.289 --> 01:14:45.210
the answer to society's problems. Maybe when
01:14:45.210 --> 01:14:46.409
we're done with Andor, we'll just talk about
01:14:46.409 --> 01:14:48.069
The Last Jedi every week. Rusty and I would be
01:14:48.069 --> 01:14:50.590
cool with that. Seven minutes of The Last Jedi.
01:14:51.029 --> 01:14:53.789
I mean, it's a rich text. It's a rich text. Absolutely.
01:14:54.069 --> 01:14:56.390
It's very much worth, if you're going to do,
01:14:56.489 --> 01:15:03.170
like, the progressive leftist guide to Star Wars,
01:15:03.489 --> 01:15:10.960
you have to have Andor, you have to have... Rogue
01:15:10.960 --> 01:15:13.560
One. I don't love Rogue One, but you have to
01:15:13.560 --> 01:15:16.340
see Rogue One after. We will be covering Rogue
01:15:16.340 --> 01:15:19.420
One on the show, yeah. And then I think, yeah,
01:15:19.500 --> 01:15:22.279
go ahead. Last Jedi destroyed Hollywood. I can
01:15:22.279 --> 01:15:24.579
make a very compelling argument. It certainly
01:15:24.579 --> 01:15:27.039
destroyed a lot of people's brains. But I think,
01:15:27.100 --> 01:15:29.739
yeah. Now all of Hollywood is, how do we not
01:15:29.739 --> 01:15:32.140
piss off that fan base that Hollywood refuses
01:15:32.140 --> 01:15:35.420
to admit was like a juiced up subculture? It
01:15:35.420 --> 01:15:37.399
wasn't real. It was Russian bots. Well, it was
01:15:37.399 --> 01:15:38.439
real, but it was not. They were complaining.
01:15:39.100 --> 01:15:42.539
It was real, but it was a hyper... They took
01:15:42.539 --> 01:15:45.039
it as such a fear of we can't piss off this fan
01:15:45.039 --> 01:15:47.220
base, ignoring the fact they don't really have
01:15:47.220 --> 01:15:49.159
as much capital power as they think they did,
01:15:49.260 --> 01:15:51.380
and they overreacted, and now we're in this bizarre
01:15:51.380 --> 01:15:55.140
industry place where no franchise can really
01:15:55.140 --> 01:15:57.800
push the boundary, and yet they go, why does
01:15:57.800 --> 01:15:59.359
no one want to see these big franchise movies?
01:16:00.539 --> 01:16:02.279
And we're just sort of in this middle ground
01:16:02.279 --> 01:16:05.359
where they can't really figure out how to do
01:16:05.359 --> 01:16:08.760
it, except let's make Drive again, but... In
01:16:08.760 --> 01:16:12.039
space. And then also as a Marvel movie. They
01:16:12.039 --> 01:16:16.060
learned nothing. Can we talk about the Ryan Gosling
01:16:16.060 --> 01:16:18.880
jacket that they revealed for The Last Starfighter,
01:16:18.899 --> 01:16:22.039
which is the drive jacket again? I mean, fine.
01:16:22.460 --> 01:16:24.560
I mean, I want the jacket. It's cool. But it's
01:16:24.560 --> 01:16:28.000
just that. I love Ryan Gosling. Who knows if
01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:31.020
it's going to be good? But I think the problem
01:16:31.020 --> 01:16:36.979
is they had two examples. Two different approaches,
01:16:37.159 --> 01:16:41.300
back to back. Okay, after Force Awakens is a
01:16:41.300 --> 01:16:44.439
huge, massive success. Gigantic. You've got this
01:16:44.439 --> 01:16:48.100
big jumping off point. In the same way that A
01:16:48.100 --> 01:16:50.920
New Hope, the first Star Wars movie, huge success.
01:16:51.359 --> 01:16:54.039
Okay, what does George Lucas do? He says, I'm
01:16:54.039 --> 01:16:57.340
going to take this opportunity to tell a very
01:16:57.340 --> 01:17:01.699
bleak story. A second act where everything goes
01:17:01.699 --> 01:17:04.319
wrong for the heroes. After their huge success,
01:17:04.500 --> 01:17:08.439
everything goes wrong. We flip the table and
01:17:08.439 --> 01:17:10.800
all the pieces are scattered on the floor and
01:17:10.800 --> 01:17:13.399
we have to put it back together. If he had done
01:17:13.399 --> 01:17:16.039
the opposite of that, would we still be talking
01:17:16.039 --> 01:17:19.380
about Star Wars today? Probably not. You needed
01:17:19.380 --> 01:17:23.560
that to counterbalance the first movie and you
01:17:23.560 --> 01:17:26.079
needed to give the third movie a reason to exist.
01:17:26.479 --> 01:17:29.140
So you have this big success, The Force Awakens.
01:17:29.520 --> 01:17:32.239
And it works because everyone's so excited for
01:17:32.699 --> 01:17:36.000
Old school Star Wars and new characters and the
01:17:36.000 --> 01:17:39.159
Millennium Falcon's back. Isn't that great? Okay,
01:17:39.300 --> 01:17:42.539
you've set it up. Now that you've got the chess
01:17:42.539 --> 01:17:46.460
pieces on the board, flip the table again. And
01:17:46.460 --> 01:17:48.140
that's what Rian Johnson did. He said, okay,
01:17:48.260 --> 01:17:52.420
here it is. Flip it. Surprise everyone. And then
01:17:52.420 --> 01:17:55.899
we'll pick up the pieces later. And then Disney
01:17:55.899 --> 01:17:59.159
said, oh, everyone's mad. Everyone's mad. Not
01:17:59.159 --> 01:18:01.500
everyone's mad. The movie still made a ton of
01:18:01.500 --> 01:18:05.390
money. And people forget, did the Empire Strikes
01:18:05.390 --> 01:18:08.350
Back make as much money as the first Star Wars?
01:18:09.409 --> 01:18:13.989
No, it didn't. It made less by a lot. Why would
01:18:13.989 --> 01:18:16.310
anyone see the second one who did not see the
01:18:16.310 --> 01:18:20.409
first? Right. And some people who saw the first
01:18:20.409 --> 01:18:23.350
said, I don't even see it 500 times. I'll see
01:18:23.350 --> 01:18:26.550
it twice. It's okay. There's two of them now.
01:18:26.689 --> 01:18:29.090
And this one's kind of a bummer. People don't
01:18:29.090 --> 01:18:31.909
go back over and over again for a bummer. But
01:18:31.909 --> 01:18:33.470
did they show up for the third one because they
01:18:33.470 --> 01:18:35.829
want to know how it ends? Of course. So then,
01:18:35.909 --> 01:18:40.649
instead of seeing the opportunity that Lucas
01:18:40.649 --> 01:18:43.949
saw after doing this kind of edgy second film,
01:18:44.109 --> 01:18:48.210
Disney said, people are mad. We didn't make enough.
01:18:49.270 --> 01:18:53.829
So let's put the pieces back on the table. Let's
01:18:53.829 --> 01:18:56.970
bring some old pieces. And let's pretend like
01:18:56.970 --> 01:18:59.149
the second one never happened. Yeah, they brought
01:18:59.149 --> 01:19:01.630
out the universal remote and hit the rewind button.
01:19:01.909 --> 01:19:04.729
It's like unplugging your PlayStation because
01:19:04.729 --> 01:19:06.449
you didn't like how the game turned out. And
01:19:06.449 --> 01:19:08.170
that's why Mandalorian and Grogu made $2 billion.
01:19:09.409 --> 01:19:15.569
It... No, it did not. It lost money. You've ruined
01:19:15.569 --> 01:19:19.930
the whole thing because people, no matter how
01:19:19.930 --> 01:19:23.520
many people were mad... I guarantee you, if the
01:19:23.520 --> 01:19:25.380
internet existed when The Empire Strikes Back
01:19:25.380 --> 01:19:28.840
came out, people would have been like, Luke Skywalker's
01:19:28.840 --> 01:19:31.960
dad is Darth Vader? That is stupid. You've ruined
01:19:31.960 --> 01:19:35.579
this. How dare you? You've destroyed Star Wars.
01:19:36.000 --> 01:19:38.760
You cut Luke's hand off? What is he, some kind
01:19:38.760 --> 01:19:42.960
of wuss? There would have been so much consternation
01:19:42.960 --> 01:19:46.279
over that movie for not giving you the same thing
01:19:46.279 --> 01:19:50.000
again. But they did that with... The Rise of
01:19:50.000 --> 01:19:51.760
Skywalker. And they said, hey, you know what?
01:19:52.100 --> 01:19:54.699
We don't like all this negative attention. We
01:19:54.699 --> 01:19:56.760
want everyone to love the movie. Guess what?
01:19:56.779 --> 01:19:59.539
No one could say that everyone loved The Force
01:19:59.539 --> 01:20:03.619
Awakens. It wasn't a universal success because
01:20:03.619 --> 01:20:07.300
no movie is. And so Star Wars died at that point.
01:20:07.359 --> 01:20:09.979
When they had the opportunity to finish that
01:20:09.979 --> 01:20:15.159
trilogy and play the final notes of that symphony,
01:20:15.319 --> 01:20:18.960
they said, no, we're going to play... Rock and
01:20:18.960 --> 01:20:22.300
Roll Part 2 by Gary Glitter instead. Well, you
01:20:22.300 --> 01:20:26.039
know who else died? Poor Marva Andor. I will
01:20:26.039 --> 01:20:27.460
say, if people want to talk more about this,
01:20:27.500 --> 01:20:29.500
the Fall of Skywalker podcast goes into a really
01:20:29.500 --> 01:20:31.239
good way of what happened. Yes, the Going Rogue
01:20:31.239 --> 01:20:33.939
series about the rise of Skywalker. Highly recommend.
01:20:34.119 --> 01:20:40.030
It's a great listen. You'll hear all this. extremely
01:20:40.030 --> 01:20:43.710
well. Much better than we can. I think I did
01:20:43.710 --> 01:20:45.789
a great job. Oh, you did an amazing job. Absolutely.
01:20:46.109 --> 01:20:49.390
If you want another five hours of it. I'm just
01:20:49.390 --> 01:20:52.310
mad still. I'll never not be mad about this.
01:20:52.689 --> 01:20:54.470
We're going to take it to our graves. No, I think
01:20:54.470 --> 01:20:56.069
part of the... Rusty made me want to do this
01:20:56.069 --> 01:20:57.550
podcast because he knows that I will just talk
01:20:57.550 --> 01:21:00.069
about The Last Jedi at any given moment as, like,
01:21:00.090 --> 01:21:04.010
the fall of society. So... Yeah. Something broke.
01:21:04.149 --> 01:21:06.930
That and Ghostbusters. Something snapped. No,
01:21:06.949 --> 01:21:12.800
I would say if... If the Rise of Skywalker came
01:21:12.800 --> 01:21:18.479
out, got delayed by COVID, I truly think society
01:21:18.479 --> 01:21:20.119
would have been destroyed. If people had to wait
01:21:20.119 --> 01:21:22.800
for that for like two years because of COVID
01:21:22.800 --> 01:21:24.800
and then they released that, there would have
01:21:24.800 --> 01:21:26.880
been riots in the streets. They might have been
01:21:26.880 --> 01:21:30.100
able to write like a 50th draft, though. They
01:21:30.100 --> 01:21:32.600
would have fixed it. Yeah, I think JJ would have
01:21:32.600 --> 01:21:34.699
dropped out. They would have hired, you know,
01:21:34.720 --> 01:21:38.140
I don't know. Christopher Nolan. Just kidding.
01:21:38.260 --> 01:21:41.399
He wouldn't do this. It would have been a different
01:21:41.399 --> 01:21:44.560
movie, and that would have been better. There's
01:21:44.560 --> 01:21:47.739
no guarantee of that. Yes. There's no guarantee
01:21:47.739 --> 01:21:49.720
of anything. It would have been different. If
01:21:49.720 --> 01:21:52.500
the version they made got delayed for two years
01:21:52.500 --> 01:21:53.880
because of COVID, people would have gone insane.
01:21:54.500 --> 01:21:57.840
To be fair, a movie that did get delayed because
01:21:57.840 --> 01:22:00.939
of COVID, No Time to Die, did not end up being
01:22:00.939 --> 01:22:03.659
significantly better because of that. I like
01:22:03.659 --> 01:22:08.319
that movie, but... It's still not great. Well,
01:22:08.359 --> 01:22:10.739
it did the opposite. They're all dead. See you
01:22:10.739 --> 01:22:15.119
later, folks. Bye. We killed your hero. Yes.
01:22:15.199 --> 01:22:17.779
Speaking of dead heroes. Yeah. Speaking of dead
01:22:17.779 --> 01:22:22.760
heroes, we then move to a shot of Dedra looking
01:22:22.760 --> 01:22:27.100
like a stern full motion video game cut scene
01:22:27.100 --> 01:22:30.420
on a hollow screen. I'm going to the only place
01:22:30.420 --> 01:22:36.770
not ruined by capitalism. face face yeah get
01:22:36.770 --> 01:22:40.770
get dead ramiro in uh what is that series called
01:22:40.770 --> 01:22:46.260
red alert yes uh yeah But she is being informed
01:22:46.260 --> 01:22:50.060
of Marva's passing last night, and the prefect
01:22:50.060 --> 01:22:53.100
informs her that they are watching the situation
01:22:53.100 --> 01:22:57.220
carefully, although the people of Ferex are requesting
01:22:57.220 --> 01:22:59.920
a send -off for this very prominent citizen.
01:23:00.319 --> 01:23:02.659
He says they're going to request a permit to
01:23:02.659 --> 01:23:05.840
close Rick's Road, but obviously we're not going
01:23:05.840 --> 01:23:08.220
to allow that. They're just doing it because
01:23:08.220 --> 01:23:12.789
they want to build a list of grievances. Dedra
01:23:12.789 --> 01:23:15.449
then surprises the crew by telling them that,
01:23:15.470 --> 01:23:19.029
no, we want a funeral. You're going to give them
01:23:19.029 --> 01:23:22.550
a permit, keep it small, limit the time, limit
01:23:22.550 --> 01:23:25.710
the numbers. We want to put them in a box, stand
01:23:25.710 --> 01:23:29.350
back, and watch. They have only two days to set
01:23:29.350 --> 01:23:31.609
this all up as according to Farrick's custom.
01:23:32.069 --> 01:23:36.210
And what's that exactly? The dead are bricked.
01:23:36.350 --> 01:23:40.029
They mix your ashes with mortar and local stone
01:23:40.029 --> 01:23:43.630
dust, put your name on it, and fire it up. You
01:23:43.630 --> 01:23:47.069
become a block of ferric's brick, and then they
01:23:47.069 --> 01:23:51.130
find you a wall. And so I feel like in this extremely
01:23:51.130 --> 01:23:53.590
short scene, we have a lot that we can talk about.
01:23:53.710 --> 01:23:55.710
Also, just how quickly slang changes that within
01:23:55.710 --> 01:23:58.529
four years, getting bricked now makes me laugh.
01:24:00.670 --> 01:24:04.949
Murph is getting bricked up. Oh, it's an erection.
01:24:05.109 --> 01:24:08.130
Yeah. I forgot that. That's what that means.
01:24:08.289 --> 01:24:13.310
Yeah. They had no idea. It's like if someone
01:24:13.310 --> 01:24:16.069
was like, oh, there's 67 people that are trapped
01:24:16.069 --> 01:24:21.329
on this spaceship. Six, seven. I want to say,
01:24:21.369 --> 01:24:23.489
I'm sure this has been said a thousand times
01:24:23.489 --> 01:24:25.210
on this show, and it will be said a thousand
01:24:25.210 --> 01:24:27.569
times again as you get into season two. Denise
01:24:27.569 --> 01:24:34.050
Goff is incredible in this role. as Deidre it's
01:24:34.050 --> 01:24:37.090
so easy to fuck up that role yeah she could have
01:24:37.090 --> 01:24:41.409
just been an ice queen she could have been overly
01:24:41.409 --> 01:24:44.930
neurotic she could have been too aggressive not
01:24:44.930 --> 01:24:49.760
aggressive enough there there's a moment in An
01:24:49.760 --> 01:24:52.300
episode in season two where she's telling – what's
01:24:52.300 --> 01:24:55.380
his face? Her boyfriend. Cyril. Cyril, yes. Thank
01:24:55.380 --> 01:24:59.100
you. Cyril Karnes. The ultimate sitcom guy just
01:24:59.100 --> 01:25:01.199
who happens to be in Star Wars with the ultimate
01:25:01.199 --> 01:25:04.500
Jewish mom in space. And she's like, you got
01:25:04.500 --> 01:25:07.420
to leave. You got to leave, Gorman. Things are
01:25:07.420 --> 01:25:11.819
happening. Pack your bags. And he's like complaining
01:25:11.819 --> 01:25:18.189
and humming and hawing about – He's got a mission
01:25:18.189 --> 01:25:19.989
and all this stuff, and he feels like he's out
01:25:19.989 --> 01:25:23.729
of the loop, and she just gives him a big kiss.
01:25:23.789 --> 01:25:25.810
She just grabs his head, and she kisses him with
01:25:25.810 --> 01:25:29.949
no sexual passion, but with, like, I gotta get
01:25:29.949 --> 01:25:32.210
you to shut up, and I'm just gonna kiss you.
01:25:32.750 --> 01:25:35.489
And you don't know if she really loves him or
01:25:35.489 --> 01:25:37.510
not, and I think you never really know at the
01:25:37.510 --> 01:25:39.390
end of the show if she really cares about this
01:25:39.390 --> 01:25:42.829
person or not, but she plays every aspect of
01:25:42.829 --> 01:25:46.340
this incredibly complicated person. super well
01:25:46.340 --> 01:25:48.720
and in that same episode that's when she finds
01:25:48.720 --> 01:25:51.239
out that like they're gonna go to gorman and
01:25:51.239 --> 01:25:53.380
they're going to forcibly relocate everybody
01:25:53.380 --> 01:25:55.479
and they're gonna wipe the planet clean because
01:25:55.479 --> 01:25:58.819
they need the stuff to make the death star and
01:25:58.819 --> 01:26:01.979
she looks horrified and you're like oh no she's
01:26:01.979 --> 01:26:04.199
a i thought she was a true believer but now she's
01:26:04.199 --> 01:26:07.000
starting to see the the true scope of this thing
01:26:07.000 --> 01:26:10.239
that she's involved in and she has a humanity
01:26:10.239 --> 01:26:15.220
that is surprising but makes sense because you've
01:26:15.220 --> 01:26:17.579
seen her be vulnerable throughout the entire
01:26:17.579 --> 01:26:21.739
show she's a true believer and she's ambitious
01:26:21.739 --> 01:26:25.420
and she's deceptive and devious at times but
01:26:25.420 --> 01:26:27.920
she's still a person and that's what i was saying
01:26:27.920 --> 01:26:30.840
before is like star wars has historically been
01:26:30.840 --> 01:26:35.739
archetypes and one -dimensional characters and
01:26:35.739 --> 01:26:39.000
andor says what a star wars had people in it
01:26:39.000 --> 01:26:43.239
and she is the She's not the lead, obviously.
01:26:43.239 --> 01:26:46.439
She's not the most important person on the show.
01:26:46.640 --> 01:26:50.159
But the show doesn't work if she doesn't work
01:26:50.159 --> 01:26:54.819
as that character. Yeah, in Star Wars, if you
01:26:54.819 --> 01:26:58.979
are a hyper -capable operator, you have to either...
01:26:59.760 --> 01:27:03.100
be Tarkin and look like a Hammer movie villain,
01:27:03.300 --> 01:27:06.960
or you're Grand Admiral Thrawn and you're this,
01:27:06.960 --> 01:27:10.479
like, ridiculous caricature of, like, a tactician.
01:27:10.819 --> 01:27:13.539
But here, like, in this scene, we're getting
01:27:13.539 --> 01:27:16.739
to see Dedra in her element and able to play
01:27:16.739 --> 01:27:19.619
the 4D chess that nobody else is able to do.
01:27:19.739 --> 01:27:23.140
And even though at this point she's tortured
01:27:23.140 --> 01:27:25.840
Bix, you know, she's doing all this horrible
01:27:25.840 --> 01:27:30.689
stuff, we see her... make this plan and you're
01:27:30.689 --> 01:27:33.210
like damn you gotta hand it to her that is a
01:27:33.210 --> 01:27:38.210
great strategy she's a she's a survivor and i
01:27:38.210 --> 01:27:41.770
think in on both sides of the coin on this show
01:27:41.770 --> 01:27:45.270
the characters that rise to the top are the ones
01:27:45.270 --> 01:27:50.489
who are not necessarily the best people but they're
01:27:50.489 --> 01:27:54.569
the best at surviving And you see in those meeting,
01:27:54.609 --> 01:27:58.430
those ISB meetings, she's the one that can survive
01:27:58.430 --> 01:28:03.369
the grilling. She can survive the scrutiny and
01:28:03.369 --> 01:28:07.109
the pressure cooker of everyone's vying for position.
01:28:07.649 --> 01:28:13.369
Everyone wants to be the golden boy, so to speak.
01:28:13.850 --> 01:28:17.069
And she just has a way of doing it. And of course,
01:28:17.069 --> 01:28:19.489
it ends up falling apart for her later on in
01:28:19.489 --> 01:28:23.079
season two. You're following her rise as she's
01:28:23.079 --> 01:28:27.180
just able to be savvy enough to avoid the obvious
01:28:27.180 --> 01:28:30.060
landmines that a lot of characters on that show
01:28:30.060 --> 01:28:33.060
can't. And Cassian's the same way, right? Cassian
01:28:33.060 --> 01:28:37.779
is the one on the other side who sees the pitfalls
01:28:37.779 --> 01:28:41.500
and can kind of jump over them, like Mario or
01:28:41.500 --> 01:28:45.100
something. Dave, you write a lot about fashion.
01:28:45.159 --> 01:28:46.859
I think we'd be remiss to not talk about Deirdre's
01:28:46.859 --> 01:28:48.380
fashion for a little bit, especially season two.
01:28:49.310 --> 01:28:52.310
She gets wild out there. Oh, when she's in her
01:28:52.310 --> 01:28:56.829
casual outfits. They're like hanging out on Coruscant
01:28:56.829 --> 01:28:58.930
and stuff. Do you think Dedra monograms everything
01:28:58.930 --> 01:29:02.850
she owns? Like I do? For different reasons. I
01:29:02.850 --> 01:29:04.750
think she does it for different reasons. She
01:29:04.750 --> 01:29:06.470
wants to make sure no one takes her clothing.
01:29:06.630 --> 01:29:11.949
That's hers. It's not bugs. Yes. I think she's
01:29:11.949 --> 01:29:15.550
obviously very fastidious. The way that they
01:29:15.550 --> 01:29:19.529
do her hair. in in in all of the scenes where
01:29:19.529 --> 01:29:22.949
she's in her uniform it's one of the most fierce
01:29:22.949 --> 01:29:27.130
and tight and uncomfortable looking buns i've
01:29:27.130 --> 01:29:30.069
ever seen on a television show like her hair
01:29:30.069 --> 01:29:32.970
is just cinched up and when she lets it down
01:29:32.970 --> 01:29:35.829
it's kind of it's kind of scary it's almost like
01:29:35.829 --> 01:29:38.710
when captain janeway takes her hair down on voyager
01:29:38.710 --> 01:29:43.390
you're like what's going on here um yeah and
01:29:43.390 --> 01:29:48.500
and her her casual wear is i mean star wars has
01:29:48.500 --> 01:29:51.119
never been i would say fashionable i don't think
01:29:51.119 --> 01:29:53.640
any of the clothes on star wars have been clothes
01:29:53.640 --> 01:29:56.720
that people would want to wear maybe han solo's
01:29:56.720 --> 01:29:59.439
jacket but if you wore that in public you look
01:29:59.439 --> 01:30:04.239
like a jackass it's not it's not the same as,
01:30:04.260 --> 01:30:06.680
you know, other, other sci -fi fantasy, like
01:30:06.680 --> 01:30:08.899
even like Blade Runner. I feel like you could
01:30:08.899 --> 01:30:11.300
wear the coat, Deckard's coat from Blade Runner
01:30:11.300 --> 01:30:13.939
and be pretty cool. Or you could dress up, you
01:30:13.939 --> 01:30:17.100
know, like a character from the Matrix and go
01:30:17.100 --> 01:30:19.180
to, you know, a nightclub in Berlin or something.
01:30:19.319 --> 01:30:22.579
But I just don't, Star Wars, just like people
01:30:22.579 --> 01:30:26.539
are wearing like Flash Gordon costumes and it's
01:30:26.539 --> 01:30:29.720
just not, it doesn't work. It works better on
01:30:29.720 --> 01:30:33.550
this show. Things seem more wearable. I think
01:30:33.550 --> 01:30:36.850
Cyril, some of Cyril's little uniforms and suits
01:30:36.850 --> 01:30:39.729
that he wears. His little alterations. Yeah,
01:30:39.829 --> 01:30:41.770
there's like, oh, it's a suit, but it's got like
01:30:41.770 --> 01:30:44.149
a strange collar or something. Like it's kind
01:30:44.149 --> 01:30:48.510
of, it's recognizable to human clothes. I wouldn't
01:30:48.510 --> 01:30:50.930
say that's been the case historically in Star
01:30:50.930 --> 01:30:54.319
Wars. In the Art of Andor book, they talk about
01:30:54.319 --> 01:30:57.220
how they had a lot of debates about whether or
01:30:57.220 --> 01:31:01.840
not Dedra would even wear casual clothes or if
01:31:01.840 --> 01:31:05.119
she just wears her uniform at home all the time.
01:31:05.399 --> 01:31:08.260
We're making dinner and your mom's coming. I'm
01:31:08.260 --> 01:31:11.579
going to wear my imperial uniform. I mean, why
01:31:11.579 --> 01:31:15.039
not? It would impress Cyril's mom at least. Oh,
01:31:15.079 --> 01:31:17.779
she's got a good job. I feel like you have a
01:31:17.779 --> 01:31:19.420
good answer to this question. One of our sub
01:31:19.420 --> 01:31:23.329
questions is, Uncle Harlow, the unseen uncle
01:31:23.329 --> 01:31:29.449
who helps Cyril get his job. Yeah. Who would
01:31:29.449 --> 01:31:32.409
you want to be Edie Karn's brother in that situation?
01:31:32.789 --> 01:31:37.329
Richard Kind. A man for our hearts. There's only
01:31:37.329 --> 01:31:39.090
one answer. It's Richard Kind. That's our number
01:31:39.090 --> 01:31:42.989
one choice. Cyril, what are you doing? You know
01:31:42.989 --> 01:31:47.510
the Empire is looking for people. Can I have
01:31:47.510 --> 01:31:52.520
a bite of that? Do you mind? Cyril, baby! I'm
01:31:52.520 --> 01:31:54.420
gonna go take a nap on the couch. I'll see you
01:31:54.420 --> 01:32:00.640
guys in an hour. I would love a sitcom with Cyril,
01:32:00.640 --> 01:32:04.100
his mom, and Richard Kind. Just a Star Wars sitcom
01:32:04.100 --> 01:32:09.239
on Coruscant. Harlow's home. Yeah, he's like
01:32:09.239 --> 01:32:11.720
the Kramer. He just shows up and he causes chaos.
01:32:11.859 --> 01:32:18.319
Speaking of airing of grievances, so... uh before
01:32:18.319 --> 01:32:20.939
we move on from this scene i do really want us
01:32:20.939 --> 01:32:24.260
to to talk about the the concept of as alex put
01:32:24.260 --> 01:32:29.000
it getting bricked up i do think it's it the
01:32:29.000 --> 01:32:31.560
the silly joke aside it is a really beautiful
01:32:31.560 --> 01:32:34.640
concept and i think that um it really speaks
01:32:34.640 --> 01:32:37.819
to like the heart of this show which tony has
01:32:37.819 --> 01:32:42.039
described as like exploring the ways in which
01:32:42.039 --> 01:32:46.300
fascism destroys community And I think in this
01:32:46.300 --> 01:32:51.439
concept of becoming bricked, you become a literal
01:32:51.439 --> 01:32:54.640
part of the community at that point forever.
01:32:55.619 --> 01:33:00.079
And I think in that way, allowing Marva to be
01:33:00.079 --> 01:33:03.979
our entry into that is really fitting for her
01:33:03.979 --> 01:33:05.199
character. The community is built from people
01:33:05.199 --> 01:33:07.819
and the people is built from community. It goes
01:33:07.819 --> 01:33:12.260
both ways. Yeah, and this is an example of Star
01:33:12.260 --> 01:33:16.939
Wars being more like Star Trek in that historically
01:33:16.939 --> 01:33:21.100
Star Wars has said, oh, this is a planet of Muppets.
01:33:21.439 --> 01:33:25.600
This is the Wookiee planet. This is the planet
01:33:25.600 --> 01:33:28.760
of fish people. But they don't have a culture.
01:33:29.159 --> 01:33:32.399
They don't have anything that defines them, that
01:33:32.399 --> 01:33:35.079
makes them special. But every week on Star Trek,
01:33:35.199 --> 01:33:37.800
the Enterprise shows up at a planet. that has
01:33:37.800 --> 01:33:40.840
its own society, that has its own language, that
01:33:40.840 --> 01:33:43.479
has its own religion, that has its own political
01:33:43.479 --> 01:33:46.140
system. And those are the elements that make
01:33:46.140 --> 01:33:49.119
an episode. Star Wars is like, oh, this is the
01:33:49.119 --> 01:33:51.899
underwater planet. Everybody lives underwater.
01:33:52.079 --> 01:33:55.119
Who cares? It's one city for the entire planet.
01:33:56.020 --> 01:33:58.140
Exactly. It's like, oh, this is everything. Star
01:33:58.140 --> 01:33:59.520
Trek kind of does that too, where it's like,
01:33:59.579 --> 01:34:01.039
oh, this is, you know, we're going to beam down
01:34:01.039 --> 01:34:04.060
to this city and this is everything. But also
01:34:04.060 --> 01:34:07.399
there's still some thought into like, How do
01:34:07.399 --> 01:34:09.359
they interact with each other? The only time
01:34:09.359 --> 01:34:12.140
we really get that in Star Wars is my favorite
01:34:12.140 --> 01:34:14.760
Star Wars movie, The Phantom Menace, where you
01:34:14.760 --> 01:34:19.319
have two societies operating both independently
01:34:19.319 --> 01:34:23.460
and symbiotically. And they have their own culture,
01:34:23.640 --> 01:34:26.680
they have their own way of doing things, and
01:34:26.680 --> 01:34:28.930
they don't... interact very often but they have
01:34:28.930 --> 01:34:32.109
to work together in order to stop the trade federation
01:34:32.109 --> 01:34:35.810
but usually it's just like you know this planet's
01:34:35.810 --> 01:34:38.430
blue this one's brown this one's green whatever
01:34:38.430 --> 01:34:41.869
well in the art of andor book they talk a lot
01:34:41.869 --> 01:34:45.020
about how it was actually a really controversial
01:34:45.020 --> 01:34:48.340
decision for them to build Ferrix out of brick.
01:34:48.579 --> 01:34:51.619
The conversations were among the design team
01:34:51.619 --> 01:34:54.279
that brick is not something that we see in Star
01:34:54.279 --> 01:34:56.619
Wars. And this is something that the Andor haters
01:34:56.619 --> 01:35:00.039
like shout. tout as being like this show is just
01:35:00.039 --> 01:35:03.159
all like brown and bricks and that's not my star
01:35:03.159 --> 01:35:07.939
wars and i think that in this scene we see how
01:35:07.939 --> 01:35:12.279
tony is able to justify that right okay you're
01:35:12.279 --> 01:35:15.340
saying that bricks are not you know what towns
01:35:15.340 --> 01:35:18.539
are usually built out of why is that then Why
01:35:18.539 --> 01:35:21.539
would this town be made out of brick? And let's
01:35:21.539 --> 01:35:24.640
invest it with this deeper meaning in order to
01:35:24.640 --> 01:35:28.140
then justify the nerds who, you know, are going
01:35:28.140 --> 01:35:30.239
to get mad at us for saying that this hasn't
01:35:30.239 --> 01:35:31.619
happened before. I mean, that's just good writing
01:35:31.619 --> 01:35:33.880
to see the contradiction. Exactly. And let's
01:35:33.880 --> 01:35:35.659
lean into that contradiction and explore it,
01:35:35.680 --> 01:35:38.060
not just go, oh, that's a plot hole. Let's explore
01:35:38.060 --> 01:35:40.520
that plot hole. Or shirk away from it and not
01:35:40.520 --> 01:35:43.140
use the brick, right? Like other people would
01:35:43.140 --> 01:35:44.920
hear that and say, well, I guess I can't use
01:35:44.920 --> 01:35:47.399
brick then. What you need to do as a creator
01:35:47.399 --> 01:35:49.880
is... say, I want to use brick. Let's figure
01:35:49.880 --> 01:35:52.060
out a way to make that happen. But that's such
01:35:52.060 --> 01:35:55.260
an asinine complaint. Oh, absolutely. I've never
01:35:55.260 --> 01:35:59.020
seen a brick before in Star Wars. And it's a
01:35:59.020 --> 01:36:02.260
massive galaxy. Yeah. And that's, I think, the
01:36:02.260 --> 01:36:06.479
problem that a lot of Star Wars fans have perpetrated
01:36:06.479 --> 01:36:09.960
on the franchise is it's got to be the planets
01:36:09.960 --> 01:36:12.920
I've seen before or planets that are kind of
01:36:12.920 --> 01:36:16.640
similar to ones I've seen before. Tatooine. is
01:36:16.640 --> 01:36:19.800
a desert planet with a bunch of space hobos.
01:36:20.159 --> 01:36:24.680
So why not, in The Force Awakens, we have another
01:36:24.680 --> 01:36:27.840
desert planet with another set of space hobos,
01:36:27.960 --> 01:36:31.800
and people will not complain because it's basically
01:36:31.800 --> 01:36:37.100
Tatooine again. And that's so stupid. It's supposed
01:36:37.100 --> 01:36:39.739
to be a massive galaxy where there's all kinds
01:36:39.739 --> 01:36:43.380
of different people. You see the Senate in The
01:36:43.380 --> 01:36:46.520
Phantom Menace, and it's this massive... where
01:36:46.520 --> 01:36:48.439
it just seems like it keeps going and going and
01:36:48.439 --> 01:36:50.420
going, and there's all these people and all these
01:36:50.420 --> 01:36:52.420
different planets and different aliens and different
01:36:52.420 --> 01:36:55.619
languages, but you're saying that none of them
01:36:55.619 --> 01:36:59.880
use bricks? None of them. E .T. doesn't know
01:36:59.880 --> 01:37:03.399
what a brick is. We literally saw an underwater
01:37:03.399 --> 01:37:05.739
civilization in The Phantom Menace. It wasn't
01:37:05.739 --> 01:37:07.279
made out of brick. It was made out of bubbles.
01:37:07.680 --> 01:37:10.659
Why the fuck wouldn't it be bricks? They're underwater!
01:37:12.699 --> 01:37:15.119
But you have to have variety. Otherwise, you
01:37:15.119 --> 01:37:17.899
run out of stories. And you see that happening
01:37:17.899 --> 01:37:19.939
with Star Wars now. It's like we're running out
01:37:19.939 --> 01:37:23.500
of stories because there's this narrow idea that
01:37:23.500 --> 01:37:26.520
has been perpetrated by the fact that Disney
01:37:26.520 --> 01:37:29.899
and Lucasfilm were terrified by the negative
01:37:29.899 --> 01:37:34.000
response to The Last Jedi. What's the disease
01:37:34.000 --> 01:37:36.899
of the reactionary mind? This is what I like,
01:37:36.920 --> 01:37:38.479
and I don't want it to be any farther than that.
01:37:39.239 --> 01:37:43.460
Yep. This is the limit of my imagination. And
01:37:43.460 --> 01:37:46.420
once you put limits on the imagination, you have
01:37:46.420 --> 01:37:48.739
put limits on the stories you can tell. And so
01:37:48.739 --> 01:37:52.399
now, as Star Wars becomes less and less relevant,
01:37:53.239 --> 01:37:57.380
my son is eight years old. That is, pretty sure,
01:37:57.520 --> 01:38:01.119
the target audience for Star Wars. I would disagree,
01:38:01.420 --> 01:38:04.159
which is the problem. Well, it's supposed to
01:38:04.159 --> 01:38:08.359
be. The target demographic right now is millennials
01:38:08.359 --> 01:38:10.739
without kids who put all their money into buying
01:38:10.739 --> 01:38:13.579
figurines. But it's supposed to be, right? When
01:38:13.579 --> 01:38:17.060
George Lucas created Star Wars, he made a movie
01:38:17.060 --> 01:38:21.039
serial for children. And he did that again with
01:38:21.039 --> 01:38:23.380
the prequel trilogy. He said, I'm making Phantom
01:38:23.380 --> 01:38:25.079
Menace. There's going to be a kid protagonist.
01:38:25.380 --> 01:38:27.260
The kids are going to relate to this character.
01:38:27.479 --> 01:38:29.739
And then I'm going to eventually make him evil.
01:38:29.920 --> 01:38:31.659
And he's going to kill a bunch of people. But
01:38:31.659 --> 01:38:33.659
they have to like him first. And they have to
01:38:33.659 --> 01:38:35.060
relate to him. And they have to see themselves
01:38:35.060 --> 01:38:40.079
through his eyes for it to matter. And now, to
01:38:40.079 --> 01:38:43.140
your point, it's just for grownups who have nothing
01:38:43.140 --> 01:38:47.279
better to do with their time. But it's not that.
01:38:47.579 --> 01:38:51.319
It's at its core. And my son, when I ask him,
01:38:51.359 --> 01:38:53.180
do you want to sit down and watch the Star Wars
01:38:53.180 --> 01:38:56.060
movies with me? He's like, no, I would rather
01:38:56.060 --> 01:38:59.319
not. I have no interest in this whatsoever. My
01:38:59.319 --> 01:39:01.520
friends don't like it. We don't talk about it
01:39:01.520 --> 01:39:04.840
on the playground at school. I don't need this
01:39:04.840 --> 01:39:08.109
in my life. I don't care. And that is because
01:39:08.109 --> 01:39:12.510
they have limited their imagination. And so whatever
01:39:12.510 --> 01:39:16.329
a kid today might like is not relevant to them
01:39:16.329 --> 01:39:19.189
because it's not, to your point, for them. Now
01:39:19.189 --> 01:39:23.149
it's for someone like me who has disposable income
01:39:23.149 --> 01:39:25.850
and wants to pretend like he's still eight years
01:39:25.850 --> 01:39:30.369
old. And we get to do that every week here on
01:39:30.369 --> 01:39:33.090
Andorx. That's the exact opposite of what Andor
01:39:33.090 --> 01:39:35.630
is, though. Andor is like, what if Star Wars
01:39:35.630 --> 01:39:39.810
was for the target audience, but spoke up to
01:39:39.810 --> 01:39:42.010
their intelligence and not down to their intelligence?
01:39:42.350 --> 01:39:45.890
If you're going to make a Star Wars for people
01:39:45.890 --> 01:39:49.649
in their late 30s and early 40s, speak up to
01:39:49.649 --> 01:39:52.489
them. Don't speak down to them and treat them
01:39:52.489 --> 01:39:54.609
like adults and say, OK, we get that you still
01:39:54.609 --> 01:39:58.220
like this. Here's the thing. That is for adults.
01:39:59.739 --> 01:40:03.319
Speaking for adults. Let's go back to the giant.
01:40:03.600 --> 01:40:08.079
Aliens on Narkina. Hell yeah. Good old Dewey.
01:40:08.380 --> 01:40:12.060
Dewey and Freedy. Back on Narkina. Back inside
01:40:12.060 --> 01:40:15.939
the goo. Cassian watches as Dewey exclaims. Micey
01:40:15.939 --> 01:40:20.199
me. Freedy in half Narkinese clarifies. Prison
01:40:20.199 --> 01:40:26.079
hiya. Escapers. Toolzy tool in fact. I can't.
01:40:26.939 --> 01:40:31.220
it's rules it's so good uh i have been looking
01:40:31.220 --> 01:40:34.079
forward to covering this scene for a very long
01:40:34.079 --> 01:40:37.199
time because you know you're talking about how
01:40:37.199 --> 01:40:41.140
andor does not talk down to us and there's a
01:40:41.140 --> 01:40:44.939
lot of people who say andor is embarrassed to
01:40:44.939 --> 01:40:50.079
be a star wars thing and yet here we are our
01:40:50.079 --> 01:40:56.979
our hero has escaped from a a fascistic technologically
01:40:56.979 --> 01:41:01.180
advanced prison and now has been captured by
01:41:01.180 --> 01:41:06.699
these backwoods redneck alien fishermen who talk
01:41:06.699 --> 01:41:10.159
like Jar Jar Binks. Pirate Yoda. Yeah. Pirate
01:41:10.159 --> 01:41:14.119
Yoda. Yeah, exactly. A thousand offer. A thousand
01:41:14.119 --> 01:41:19.619
each the offer be. One for each of us, 3D. Like
01:41:19.619 --> 01:41:24.079
in a rhyme. It's so funny. It's all iambic pentameter
01:41:24.079 --> 01:41:27.010
if you noticed. It's like Shakespeare. I don't
01:41:27.010 --> 01:41:28.750
know that, actually. I'm just kidding. It rhymes.
01:41:29.670 --> 01:41:32.449
You know, it's like poetry. It rhymes. Dewey
01:41:32.449 --> 01:41:34.090
points out that it's better fishing on land,
01:41:34.270 --> 01:41:36.369
especially as these humans have, quote, killed
01:41:36.369 --> 01:41:40.729
our water, hey -ya. Inside the net, Cassian doesn't
01:41:40.729 --> 01:41:42.949
know what he's talking about. Dewey quickly clarifies
01:41:42.949 --> 01:41:46.289
and explains, not much squiggling now, not much
01:41:46.289 --> 01:41:50.829
left. Cassian tells them they have met no harm,
01:41:50.949 --> 01:41:53.550
just some light larceny, but they haven't killed
01:41:53.550 --> 01:41:59.489
anything. Not true. They haven't killed the squigglies.
01:41:59.510 --> 01:42:02.649
That's true, yes. Cassian is a very good liar
01:42:02.649 --> 01:42:05.210
when he has to be. Dewey tells him it was that
01:42:05.210 --> 01:42:08.409
scob in prison that ruined their water. All that
01:42:08.409 --> 01:42:11.789
water. Hey, yeah, Freedy. Freedy is in agreement.
01:42:13.130 --> 01:42:15.729
No biggie dinner tonight like pastimes, Freedy,
01:42:15.850 --> 01:42:19.970
Dewey asks. Cassian tries to explain we were
01:42:19.970 --> 01:42:22.939
trapped here. It's not our fault. Dewey's goggles
01:42:22.939 --> 01:42:25.140
make some hydraulic noises and it spins around.
01:42:26.079 --> 01:42:30.180
Always blame the Empire, huh? I know this is
01:42:30.180 --> 01:42:32.340
canceled, but it is just like Mad -Eye Moody
01:42:32.340 --> 01:42:37.600
from Harry Potter. I see it. I wouldn't know.
01:42:37.659 --> 01:42:39.939
I don't like that at all. That show. Or a movie.
01:42:40.260 --> 01:42:43.859
No, it doesn't exist. What is it? Yeah. Cassian
01:42:43.859 --> 01:42:46.020
tries to explain. Oh, yes. Freedy says something
01:42:46.020 --> 01:42:49.380
to Dewey. Cassian asks for a translation. Freedy
01:42:49.380 --> 01:42:52.020
sheathes his sword as Dewey tells him. He's saying,
01:42:52.140 --> 01:42:56.640
alive or dead, the offer goes. Freedy asks, toosie
01:42:56.640 --> 01:43:03.380
tool. So I've got some behind -the -scenes info
01:43:03.380 --> 01:43:08.079
to share about these Narcanese, which is that
01:43:08.079 --> 01:43:13.420
according to Tony, this sequence had the most
01:43:13.420 --> 01:43:18.220
meetings of deliberation as any scene in the
01:43:18.220 --> 01:43:21.439
entire first season of the show, where basically
01:43:21.439 --> 01:43:25.340
they were trying to figure out, can we actually
01:43:25.340 --> 01:43:30.619
do a scene? that is this overtly comedic in Andor
01:43:30.619 --> 01:43:33.300
because the show had been so serious up to this
01:43:33.300 --> 01:43:37.920
point. And he cites it as the most successful
01:43:37.920 --> 01:43:42.159
creature that he wrote in season one, too. He
01:43:42.159 --> 01:43:48.170
clearly did not feel... Like the the glup shittos,
01:43:48.270 --> 01:43:51.869
for lack of a better word, were his domain. But
01:43:51.869 --> 01:43:54.649
he wrote this whole alien language for them and
01:43:54.649 --> 01:43:57.529
really seemed to enjoy doing it. And he says
01:43:57.529 --> 01:44:00.090
people were like, if you can do that, why aren't
01:44:00.090 --> 01:44:03.069
you doing any more of it? But it was a lot of
01:44:03.069 --> 01:44:06.109
work, he said. So as as rigorous a writer as
01:44:06.109 --> 01:44:10.770
Tony Gilroy is, I think even he he saw the aliens
01:44:10.770 --> 01:44:13.750
and said, I don't want to deal with that. I don't
01:44:13.750 --> 01:44:16.770
think it was funny. I don't watch this scene
01:44:16.770 --> 01:44:19.069
and say, oh, this is hilarious. I'm laughing.
01:44:19.430 --> 01:44:22.649
Like, there's obvious peril, right? We've just
01:44:22.649 --> 01:44:26.529
been through this three -episode arc where our
01:44:26.529 --> 01:44:30.850
hero is in, you know, Guantanamo Bay, essentially,
01:44:31.130 --> 01:44:33.189
or some sort of, you know, black site prison.
01:44:33.890 --> 01:44:36.789
And I'm not like, oh, boy, isn't it funny that
01:44:36.789 --> 01:44:40.609
he's in the goo web and he's not able to get
01:44:40.609 --> 01:44:43.859
out? all that stuff. I'm like, oh, you know,
01:44:43.859 --> 01:44:46.279
I hope that he gets out because I've invested
01:44:46.279 --> 01:44:48.899
in him emotionally. And I think that's one of
01:44:48.899 --> 01:44:52.979
the things that separates these sort of wacky
01:44:52.979 --> 01:44:56.760
alien monster, not monsters, but alien, you know,
01:44:56.760 --> 01:45:02.539
creatures from Jar Jar Binks, from some of the
01:45:02.539 --> 01:45:05.199
other, you know, great glupshiddos of Star Wars
01:45:05.199 --> 01:45:13.720
history is they're placed into A dramatic situation,
01:45:14.060 --> 01:45:17.319
a perilous situation. When you watch the cantina
01:45:17.319 --> 01:45:21.300
scene from A New Hope, are you laughing at them?
01:45:21.460 --> 01:45:25.100
Are you laughing at the racist bartender? Are
01:45:25.100 --> 01:45:30.619
you chuckling at the band and the weird noses
01:45:30.619 --> 01:45:33.319
and all the silliness of that? No, not necessarily,
01:45:33.460 --> 01:45:36.039
because you've been told this is a scary place.
01:45:36.579 --> 01:45:41.199
And it's alien in every sense of the word. And
01:45:41.199 --> 01:45:44.159
this is supposed to be, it's like deliverance,
01:45:44.239 --> 01:45:48.119
right? Like, I'm not supposed to be here. I don't
01:45:48.119 --> 01:45:51.020
speak their language. They don't understand me
01:45:51.020 --> 01:45:53.220
and they just see me as, you know, a big bag
01:45:53.220 --> 01:45:57.699
of meat. I'm an intruder on their society. So
01:45:57.699 --> 01:45:59.819
I didn't think of it as like a comedic moment.
01:46:00.020 --> 01:46:04.600
I thought of it as a moment where Cassian is
01:46:04.600 --> 01:46:07.720
in a really tough spot because he can't, he's
01:46:07.720 --> 01:46:12.859
really good at negotiating. with people to get
01:46:12.859 --> 01:46:15.220
what he wants. The prison was another situation
01:46:15.220 --> 01:46:17.220
where he couldn't negotiate, right? He's under
01:46:17.220 --> 01:46:23.319
this very oppressive system and the guards don't
01:46:23.319 --> 01:46:25.840
care about, you know, what he has to say. He
01:46:25.840 --> 01:46:28.920
can't use his, his wits to escape. And in this
01:46:28.920 --> 01:46:30.979
situation, he also can't use his wits to escape.
01:46:31.140 --> 01:46:33.000
And there are moments at the beginning of season
01:46:33.000 --> 01:46:36.069
two. similarly where he's kind of stuck in a
01:46:36.069 --> 01:46:38.130
place where he can't get out and he can't use
01:46:38.130 --> 01:46:41.210
his cleverness because it's another alien situation.
01:46:41.630 --> 01:46:43.770
I didn't think of it as funny. They're funny
01:46:43.770 --> 01:46:46.510
looking and the way they talk is kind of weird.
01:46:46.670 --> 01:46:50.829
Maybe funny is not the correct word, but the
01:46:50.829 --> 01:46:54.069
way that Tony talks about it, he calls this his
01:46:54.069 --> 01:46:58.189
Sergio Leone meets the Coen brothers scene. And
01:46:58.189 --> 01:47:02.329
I think that what it's doing is that these are...
01:47:02.829 --> 01:47:05.510
Very colorful characters, right? They're unlike
01:47:05.510 --> 01:47:09.229
anybody we've ever seen before on the show. But
01:47:09.229 --> 01:47:13.229
even in this moment, you know, as kind of big
01:47:13.229 --> 01:47:16.289
a character as they are, they're still relating
01:47:16.289 --> 01:47:19.090
to the show and speaking in the language of the
01:47:19.090 --> 01:47:21.890
show, talking about the way in which, you know,
01:47:21.890 --> 01:47:25.130
the prison has killed their fish and they're
01:47:25.130 --> 01:47:28.529
better off, you know, fishing on land for the...
01:47:28.989 --> 01:47:31.529
the escapees of the prison than fishing for the
01:47:31.529 --> 01:47:34.090
food that they, you know, have subsided on for.
01:47:34.189 --> 01:47:37.670
Yeah, it's not a dramatic departure. Yeah. Other
01:47:37.670 --> 01:47:40.909
than the fact that these are aliens. And we haven't
01:47:40.909 --> 01:47:43.369
seen that. As you said, you know, we didn't get
01:47:43.369 --> 01:47:47.029
the classic, you know, Star Wars. Here's a bunch
01:47:47.029 --> 01:47:49.770
of interesting creature designs and they all
01:47:49.770 --> 01:47:51.970
speak a funny language and they're everywhere.
01:47:52.270 --> 01:47:56.329
This was a very distinct departure aesthetically.
01:47:56.990 --> 01:47:59.930
But as you said, this is part of the show. Like,
01:47:59.930 --> 01:48:03.829
how did these incursions of the Empire affect
01:48:03.829 --> 01:48:07.010
the native population? Yeah, I think... Funny
01:48:07.010 --> 01:48:08.529
is not the right word, but there's like a joy
01:48:08.529 --> 01:48:11.529
in seeing creatures that look like this engaged
01:48:11.529 --> 01:48:14.510
with seriously. The fact that Cassian sees them
01:48:14.510 --> 01:48:16.550
as much as a threat as anybody else when we know
01:48:16.550 --> 01:48:19.369
that they look like this just has some sort of...
01:48:19.369 --> 01:48:22.750
I don't know what level of irony that is. Not
01:48:22.750 --> 01:48:25.170
a dramatic irony, but the fact that they look
01:48:25.170 --> 01:48:27.470
like this to us is funny. I think there's something
01:48:27.470 --> 01:48:31.510
inherently... There's a contradiction there that
01:48:31.510 --> 01:48:33.810
just humor comes out of. I think that's... It's
01:48:33.810 --> 01:48:36.229
deliverance. Deliverance could be funny if you
01:48:36.229 --> 01:48:38.130
don't think about the fact that they're going
01:48:38.130 --> 01:48:40.350
to be assaulted. I mean, people have made a lot
01:48:40.350 --> 01:48:43.390
of inappropriate jokes about... So deliverance.
01:48:43.409 --> 01:48:46.069
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. But it's the same
01:48:46.069 --> 01:48:50.029
sort of idea of this alien culture. And they're
01:48:50.029 --> 01:48:51.930
so different from us that they you could laugh
01:48:51.930 --> 01:48:54.270
at it. But I also think it's a counter to what
01:48:54.270 --> 01:48:56.569
we've seen of just like you're saying of episodes
01:48:56.569 --> 01:48:59.130
of just people in the same uniform and go like,
01:48:59.130 --> 01:49:01.130
oh, right. This planet is also filled with people
01:49:01.130 --> 01:49:03.770
who are a different race. We're just seeing one
01:49:03.770 --> 01:49:05.729
small window of it is a nice reminder of what
01:49:05.729 --> 01:49:07.689
Star Wars could be with of like everywhere you
01:49:07.689 --> 01:49:09.390
go, the universe gets wider and wider and there's
01:49:09.390 --> 01:49:11.310
more things the more you. the more you explore.
01:49:12.210 --> 01:49:17.829
Yeah. And if I can draw a line from this scene
01:49:17.829 --> 01:49:21.390
to Return of the Jedi, I don't know if you looked
01:49:21.390 --> 01:49:26.250
up who plays Mr. Dewey. It is English actor,
01:49:26.569 --> 01:49:29.630
animator, and puppeteer Mike Quinn, who's best
01:49:29.630 --> 01:49:32.909
known for playing Nynum in episode six. Oh, wow.
01:49:33.930 --> 01:49:37.350
I thought it was pronounced Nynum. I think it's
01:49:37.350 --> 01:49:39.970
9 -num. Is it 9? I've always said 9 -num, so.
01:49:42.050 --> 01:49:45.010
It's a yum -yum. Yum -yum. He also performed
01:49:45.010 --> 01:49:49.289
Sice Noodles, so he is. Oh! Yes. That was my
01:49:49.289 --> 01:49:51.449
third Glubsha, though. We can give you a third.
01:49:51.630 --> 01:49:52.609
I think you've earned a third. Yeah, you can
01:49:52.609 --> 01:49:56.829
have a third. Okay, fair enough. Everything about
01:49:56.829 --> 01:50:01.810
the Max Rebo band is a joy to me, and Jedi Rocks
01:50:01.810 --> 01:50:05.899
is actually cool. So you guys are wrong. We didn't
01:50:05.899 --> 01:50:09.539
say anything bad about it. Yeah, we... No, I'm
01:50:09.539 --> 01:50:11.380
saying to the audience. Yeah, yeah, the audience,
01:50:11.539 --> 01:50:14.260
you're wrong. Right now, furiously smashing their
01:50:14.260 --> 01:50:15.859
cell phone that they're listening to this on
01:50:15.859 --> 01:50:18.359
and being like, Jedi Rocks is stupid. What is
01:50:18.359 --> 01:50:22.100
he talking about? No, you misunderstand our audience.
01:50:24.819 --> 01:50:28.260
Evolved Star Wars fans who appreciate the special
01:50:28.260 --> 01:50:30.659
editions. Just appreciate some classic jizz.
01:50:33.990 --> 01:50:36.569
I want to know who decided it was going to be
01:50:36.569 --> 01:50:41.550
called that. George. No. It had to be. No, no,
01:50:41.729 --> 01:50:45.010
no. It had to be like an extended universe. I
01:50:45.010 --> 01:50:47.409
assume it's like a bricked up situation. I assume
01:50:47.409 --> 01:50:50.869
that the slang came later. They didn't know.
01:50:51.029 --> 01:50:55.050
If I change one letter in the word jazz, it'll
01:50:55.050 --> 01:50:59.430
be fine. Jizz. Okay. Wrong again. Guess what?
01:50:59.899 --> 01:51:02.300
Time moves on. They tried reckoning for a second,
01:51:02.399 --> 01:51:05.340
but they gave up. Yeah, it didn't work. It's
01:51:05.340 --> 01:51:07.600
going to be jizz forever, and we're just going
01:51:07.600 --> 01:51:09.199
to have to accept the jizz in our life. That's
01:51:09.199 --> 01:51:10.140
the end of our episode. It's going to be jizz
01:51:10.140 --> 01:51:18.680
forever. A bucket full of jizz. Herb Alpert and
01:51:18.680 --> 01:51:22.500
the Tijuana Brass. A bucket full of jizz. Speaking
01:51:22.500 --> 01:51:24.979
of jizz, they're giant nets that they've been
01:51:24.979 --> 01:51:31.220
caught in. Kind of look like jizz. Yes. Cassian
01:51:31.220 --> 01:51:33.359
tries to explain, we were trapped here. We did
01:51:33.359 --> 01:51:35.859
this already. Freedy says something to Dewey.
01:51:36.359 --> 01:51:39.319
He's saying, alive or dead, the offer goes. Sorry.
01:51:39.640 --> 01:51:42.260
Cassian desperately exclaims, let's talk, let's
01:51:42.260 --> 01:51:45.579
talk. But will they talk? Is this the end of
01:51:45.579 --> 01:51:47.680
our intrepid hero? You'll have to listen to next
01:51:47.680 --> 01:51:50.739
week to find out. Will they talk to Cassian?
01:51:51.220 --> 01:51:53.979
Because we're done. Yes. Dave, you survived.
01:51:54.420 --> 01:51:56.649
We talked to Cassian, they will. We started with
01:51:56.649 --> 01:51:58.850
a cliffhanger and we end with a cliffhanger.
01:52:01.630 --> 01:52:05.550
It's a great seven minutes. Thank you for joining
01:52:05.550 --> 01:52:08.090
us. Thank you so much for being here, Dave. Is
01:52:08.090 --> 01:52:10.550
there any final thoughts or anything about the
01:52:10.550 --> 01:52:13.550
show that we didn't get to touch on in these
01:52:13.550 --> 01:52:21.770
seven minutes? I mean, I will say that it is
01:52:21.770 --> 01:52:25.890
remarkable that this show It's still being discussed.
01:52:26.369 --> 01:52:31.869
When it is the least popular Star Wars show from
01:52:31.869 --> 01:52:34.569
minutes watched that there has ever been on Disney+.
01:52:34.569 --> 01:52:40.229
I think even more people watched the Acolyte
01:52:40.229 --> 01:52:44.829
than this. If it's not the worst, it's close
01:52:44.829 --> 01:52:47.829
to the worst. It cost more than most of them.
01:52:48.529 --> 01:52:52.449
And it is better than all of them combined. And
01:52:52.449 --> 01:52:54.090
we're trying we're trying our best here to keep
01:52:54.090 --> 01:52:57.289
it in the conversation. I think it will never
01:52:57.289 --> 01:52:59.510
leave the conversation. I think there are shows
01:52:59.510 --> 01:53:04.630
that transcend their moment. If it's The Sopranos,
01:53:04.710 --> 01:53:11.590
Twin Peaks, Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Hill Street
01:53:11.590 --> 01:53:16.289
Blues, Law and Order that just like define a
01:53:16.289 --> 01:53:19.229
generation. They define a certain style of television
01:53:19.229 --> 01:53:24.840
show. I don't think. There is a better show from
01:53:24.840 --> 01:53:28.699
this era, period. Can you name one? A streaming
01:53:28.699 --> 01:53:32.359
show. Not that it was more successful, because
01:53:32.359 --> 01:53:35.520
obviously Andor was not a huge, massive hit.
01:53:36.180 --> 01:53:40.439
But what was better since COVID? Is there a better
01:53:40.439 --> 01:53:44.699
streaming show? I don't think so. I think this
01:53:44.699 --> 01:53:48.119
is it. I'm waiting for you to tell me there's
01:53:48.119 --> 01:53:51.920
nothing else. There's nothing else. Nothing.
01:53:52.140 --> 01:53:54.920
It's what we were promised that streaming could
01:53:54.920 --> 01:53:57.779
be. It could be we're going to spend all this
01:53:57.779 --> 01:53:59.220
money to do all these incredible things and go
01:53:59.220 --> 01:54:01.500
in these incredible directions. And we won't
01:54:01.500 --> 01:54:03.619
care if people watch it or not because as long
01:54:03.619 --> 01:54:06.760
as they're paying $9 .99, which is not the cost
01:54:06.760 --> 01:54:08.819
anymore, it's like $20 a month or something.
01:54:09.159 --> 01:54:11.159
As long as they pay for it, we don't care. And
01:54:11.159 --> 01:54:13.420
now it's become the opposite. They not only need
01:54:13.420 --> 01:54:15.640
to watch it immediately, they have to watch it
01:54:15.640 --> 01:54:18.239
in the first 24 hours it's out or else it's a
01:54:18.239 --> 01:54:22.699
failure. Exactly. This is the one. When 2030
01:54:22.699 --> 01:54:25.420
comes along and we're asking ourselves what were
01:54:25.420 --> 01:54:29.819
the best TV shows of the 2020s, if this isn't
01:54:29.819 --> 01:54:32.000
number one, then something will have come out
01:54:32.000 --> 01:54:34.439
in the next four years that was better than this.
01:54:34.640 --> 01:54:37.460
And I mean, like, part of the reason to do this
01:54:37.460 --> 01:54:39.180
show, right, is we're going to be doing this
01:54:39.180 --> 01:54:42.159
for, like, another... Two years, Alex. Think
01:54:42.159 --> 01:54:47.039
about that. And in what other ways is this show
01:54:47.039 --> 01:54:49.920
going to reflect, you know, whatever horrors
01:54:49.920 --> 01:54:52.859
await us in the next two years, you know? I'm
01:54:52.859 --> 01:54:55.100
trying to think of it as, like, boy, we can look
01:54:55.100 --> 01:54:57.859
back and say, glad that's over. But you're like,
01:54:58.000 --> 01:55:00.260
no, there's going to be so much more. Wait till
01:55:00.260 --> 01:55:02.579
you get to the Gorman stuff. Well, I mean, you
01:55:02.579 --> 01:55:04.500
know, you mentioned, you know, you referenced,
01:55:04.600 --> 01:55:06.899
like, Minnesota and, like, the protests there.
01:55:06.979 --> 01:55:08.819
And, like, here in this seven minutes, we got
01:55:08.819 --> 01:55:12.460
to talk about death. you know saying that we
01:55:12.460 --> 01:55:14.880
need to provoke a reaction we need to provoke
01:55:14.880 --> 01:55:17.939
a situation in which we get to observe and gather
01:55:17.939 --> 01:55:20.859
information and in here in this scene you know
01:55:20.859 --> 01:55:24.260
with with our fisherman friends They're talking
01:55:24.260 --> 01:55:26.779
about ecological collapse. They're talking about
01:55:26.779 --> 01:55:28.739
the death of all their animals. It's like a data
01:55:28.739 --> 01:55:30.960
center. Like, oh, we put a data center in your
01:55:30.960 --> 01:55:33.539
town and all the crops died. Literally, yeah,
01:55:33.619 --> 01:55:36.859
exactly. Yeah, there's just so much there. And
01:55:36.859 --> 01:55:40.659
it's a testament to Tony Gilroy spending so much
01:55:40.659 --> 01:55:43.399
time learning about this stuff. And he said,
01:55:43.680 --> 01:55:45.979
like, all I did was I read a bunch of books about
01:55:45.979 --> 01:55:48.680
the rise of fascism in the world and all of the
01:55:48.680 --> 01:55:51.539
times that this has happened and just put it
01:55:51.539 --> 01:55:55.260
in a TV show. And it's just... It's free real
01:55:55.260 --> 01:55:56.939
estate. All that history is free real estate
01:55:56.939 --> 01:55:58.399
when it comes to writing. It's just there to
01:55:58.399 --> 01:56:01.220
be taken. You've got to read it. Well, there's
01:56:01.220 --> 01:56:03.279
unfortunately, I would say, a lot of TV writers
01:56:03.279 --> 01:56:06.600
who are not interested in that. No, what if we
01:56:06.600 --> 01:56:08.199
made a show about two assistants who get involved
01:56:08.199 --> 01:56:12.060
with Hollywood who want to... Yes, what if I
01:56:12.060 --> 01:56:15.720
look deeper into my navel? And then I'm sure
01:56:15.720 --> 01:56:17.979
I'll find some gold in there amongst the dust.
01:56:19.180 --> 01:56:22.020
Anyway, this was a pleasure. I really enjoyed
01:56:22.020 --> 01:56:24.000
going back. It's been a while since I watched
01:56:24.000 --> 01:56:27.260
this show, and this is making me want to start
01:56:27.260 --> 01:56:30.119
from the beginning and rewatch it a second time.
01:56:30.220 --> 01:56:33.220
Well, looking ahead to season two, we would love
01:56:33.220 --> 01:56:36.079
to have you back. Is there anything you'd like
01:56:36.079 --> 01:56:41.539
to call your shot for? Oh, I have to do the scene
01:56:41.539 --> 01:56:45.060
where they have the dinner party. I have to.
01:56:45.239 --> 01:56:49.899
I have to. My dinner with Needy. Yeah. Other
01:56:49.899 --> 01:56:53.600
than like every scene with her is so good. And
01:56:53.600 --> 01:56:56.600
as much as I love that first one where it's like,
01:56:56.659 --> 01:56:59.100
oh, my God, they really went with this person
01:56:59.100 --> 01:57:01.720
and they're doing this and he lives in this.
01:57:02.439 --> 01:57:05.180
But that like the tension of the three of them
01:57:05.180 --> 01:57:07.500
in that room and all of it and the way that the
01:57:07.500 --> 01:57:09.479
three of those characters bounce off of each
01:57:09.479 --> 01:57:12.500
other. It was like it was like watching my wedding
01:57:12.500 --> 01:57:15.319
day all over again. My only issue with Edie is
01:57:15.319 --> 01:57:18.460
that I guess Tony Gilroy is that. Edie's house,
01:57:18.579 --> 01:57:20.439
all of their couches are not covered in plastic.
01:57:20.640 --> 01:57:25.220
That is my only complaint. Well, I mean, Star
01:57:25.220 --> 01:57:27.220
Wars rules might be different. I don't know.
01:57:27.699 --> 01:57:31.020
It might be an invisible plastic. It could be,
01:57:31.039 --> 01:57:34.479
yeah. It could be some sort of like a shield,
01:57:34.760 --> 01:57:37.140
like an electrical field over it. It's made out
01:57:37.140 --> 01:57:41.579
of plastic. It comes laminated. What if the whole
01:57:41.579 --> 01:57:45.409
plane was made out of the black plastic? Anyway,
01:57:45.409 --> 01:57:48.930
yes, I would love to talk about just that scene
01:57:48.930 --> 01:57:53.770
because it's some of the funniest and most true
01:57:53.770 --> 01:57:55.909
writing I think I've seen. We're going to spend
01:57:55.909 --> 01:57:59.050
an hour talking about Cyril hiding on the bed.
01:57:59.890 --> 01:58:03.409
That alone. Again, I've been in that situation
01:58:03.409 --> 01:58:09.090
multiple times. So I must, I must, I must. Dave,
01:58:09.229 --> 01:58:11.479
thank you so much. This was. Thank you. A pleasure.
01:58:11.619 --> 01:58:15.100
Do you have anything you'd like to plug and where
01:58:15.100 --> 01:58:18.590
can people find you? Yeah, you can find me on
01:58:18.590 --> 01:58:21.949
X if you have to, if you simply must, at Dave
01:58:21.949 --> 01:58:24.649
underscore Schilling. I don't use it unless I'm
01:58:24.649 --> 01:58:28.470
retweeting something incendiary or funny. And
01:58:28.470 --> 01:58:30.850
then I'll do some promotion on there also if
01:58:30.850 --> 01:58:34.109
I have to. I'm at DW Schilling on Instagram.
01:58:35.289 --> 01:58:38.909
If you are interested in my short film that is
01:58:38.909 --> 01:58:40.609
doing the festival rounds now, you can follow
01:58:40.609 --> 01:58:46.779
it at Can't Float. It is a thinly veiled... Romana
01:58:46.779 --> 01:58:49.680
Clef about me trying to learn how to swim as
01:58:49.680 --> 01:58:52.560
an adult in a children's swimming class. And
01:58:52.560 --> 01:58:56.949
hilarity ensues. And you can also... Buy my book,
01:58:57.090 --> 01:58:59.909
Horror's New Wave, 15 Years of Blumhouse. If
01:58:59.909 --> 01:59:03.329
you are a horror fan and you are a fan of those
01:59:03.329 --> 01:59:05.970
particular movies from Blumhouse, it's available
01:59:05.970 --> 01:59:08.989
anywhere from Simon & Schuster. You can go to
01:59:08.989 --> 01:59:11.350
Amazon, go to your local bookshop, which is better.
01:59:12.550 --> 01:59:15.130
There's an audiobook with human beings who read
01:59:15.130 --> 01:59:17.649
it, shockingly. It's great. As opposed to AI.
01:59:18.829 --> 01:59:20.930
Any way you want to read it, it's available and
01:59:20.930 --> 01:59:22.250
I hope you buy it. When you have back, I want
01:59:22.250 --> 01:59:23.710
to talk more about Five Nights at Freddy's because
01:59:23.710 --> 01:59:27.960
that's such a bizarre... You can't bring up Five
01:59:27.960 --> 01:59:29.979
Nights at Freddy's two hours into the show. No,
01:59:29.979 --> 01:59:31.300
I'm saying next time. I'm saying next time. We'll
01:59:31.300 --> 01:59:34.119
talk about it next time. I am not going to talk
01:59:34.119 --> 01:59:37.119
about that movie. There we go. He refuses. I
01:59:37.119 --> 01:59:40.939
don't want to. If you want to know what I thought
01:59:40.939 --> 01:59:43.920
about the movie, read the book. Don't make me
01:59:43.920 --> 01:59:47.260
talk about it publicly. It's just so funny how
01:59:47.260 --> 01:59:49.500
immediately Chuck E. Cheese, what if Chuck E.
01:59:49.539 --> 01:59:52.560
Cheese became so completely understandable to
01:59:52.560 --> 01:59:54.119
Gen Z that they had to make a horror film out
01:59:54.119 --> 01:59:57.119
of it? But also we're talking about, you know,
01:59:57.119 --> 02:00:01.279
making films for fans. And that is a film that
02:00:01.279 --> 02:00:06.039
is, you know, so lore accurate that every 13
02:00:06.039 --> 02:00:09.000
-year -old boy you know loves it and can tell
02:00:09.000 --> 02:00:11.640
you all about it, as I have heard many a time.
02:00:12.159 --> 02:00:17.300
What I will say, agnostic of my opinions, is
02:00:17.300 --> 02:00:20.699
in the book, you know, I talked to Scott Cawthon,
02:00:20.760 --> 02:00:24.270
who created Five Nights at Freddy's. He rejected
02:00:24.270 --> 02:00:27.529
many versions of that film and ended up co -writing
02:00:27.529 --> 02:00:30.609
the first one and writing the second one by himself.
02:00:30.949 --> 02:00:37.010
And they really went the extra mile to make sure
02:00:37.010 --> 02:00:39.090
that it lined up with the things the kids...
02:00:39.399 --> 02:00:41.220
wanted to see from the video game and that they
02:00:41.220 --> 02:00:44.399
satisfied him and and all of that stuff and there
02:00:44.399 --> 02:00:47.020
are pros and cons to that and you see that with
02:00:47.020 --> 02:00:50.819
star wars sometimes it's better to uh adhere
02:00:50.819 --> 02:00:53.819
to the dogma and sometimes it's better to say
02:00:53.819 --> 02:00:56.140
what if it was a little different and you know
02:00:56.140 --> 02:00:57.840
it's a choice that people make when they have
02:00:57.840 --> 02:01:00.619
quote -unquote intellectual property to deal
02:01:00.619 --> 02:01:04.119
with well if you want to hear all about that
02:01:04.119 --> 02:01:07.649
be sure to get the book uh because there's a
02:01:07.649 --> 02:01:08.449
lot to dig into there. Yeah, don't ask me about
02:01:08.449 --> 02:01:13.130
this again. I have nothing else to say. It's
02:01:13.130 --> 02:01:15.250
a great movie. You should rent it. Well, I could
02:01:15.250 --> 02:01:17.430
say Wayne Knight would also make a good Uncle
02:01:17.430 --> 02:01:22.970
Harlow. Oh. He's a little too big for me. I would...
02:01:22.970 --> 02:01:28.810
What about Matthew Lillard? That's too Koyasha.
02:01:29.270 --> 02:01:34.359
I love... Yeah, you need a Jew for that. Charles
02:01:34.359 --> 02:01:36.659
Grodin would have been a great actor if he was
02:01:36.659 --> 02:01:40.960
still alive. Oh, man. We know he loves Miss Piggy,
02:01:40.979 --> 02:01:43.659
who, you know, if we're talking Muppets, like
02:01:43.659 --> 02:01:46.840
Edie. Albert Brooks is also great. Albert Brooks
02:01:46.840 --> 02:01:48.859
is retired from acting, but otherwise would be
02:01:48.859 --> 02:01:52.220
incredible. And a great actor himself. Anyway,
02:01:52.420 --> 02:01:55.520
thank you guys. This was a pleasure and a half,
02:01:55.619 --> 02:01:58.560
and I love this show, and I'm glad that I could
02:01:58.560 --> 02:02:03.159
offer some... meager insights into what it's
02:02:03.159 --> 02:02:08.720
about. Yeah, this was more than plenty. Thank
02:02:08.720 --> 02:02:12.500
you so much for joining us and thank you all
02:02:12.500 --> 02:02:17.619
for listening. Please be sure to rate and review
02:02:17.619 --> 02:02:20.819
the show on your podcast platform. It really
02:02:20.819 --> 02:02:24.399
helps spread the word. All you gotta do is go
02:02:24.399 --> 02:02:27.300
on there and say podcast good and give it five
02:02:27.300 --> 02:02:30.260
stars. That's literally it. And don't forget,
02:02:30.890 --> 02:02:37.989
Live long and prosper. Am I right? Yes. We'll
02:02:37.989 --> 02:02:40.989
bring you back on the Star Trek seven minutes
02:02:40.989 --> 02:02:44.529
at a time show for that one. You would never
02:02:44.529 --> 02:02:47.229
end that. No, it would be horrible. There's like
02:02:47.229 --> 02:02:50.829
a thousand hours of Star Trek. kill yourself
02:02:50.829 --> 02:02:55.350
you can check out our patreon at patreon .com
02:02:55.350 --> 02:02:57.890
slash and orcs pod where for just five credits
02:02:57.890 --> 02:03:00.789
a month you'll get our full and orcs detours
02:03:00.789 --> 02:03:04.449
including last week's episode talking all about
02:03:04.449 --> 02:03:07.569
the rise and fall of the galactic empire you
02:03:07.569 --> 02:03:11.250
can follow and orcs on social media at and orcs
02:03:11.250 --> 02:03:14.470
pod send in your questions about the show to
02:03:14.470 --> 02:03:18.149
and orcs pod at gmail .com and we will see you
02:03:18.149 --> 02:03:22.510
next week for part two of season one, episode
02:03:22.510 --> 02:03:30.069
11, Daughter of Ferex. Later, dorks. Bye, dorks.
02:03:30.170 --> 02:03:31.310
Bye, dorks.