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We all owe them, but very few of us know them.
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They are the men and women of our military and
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first responder communities, and these are their stories. American Warrior Radio.
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Is on the air. You're turning to American Warrior Radio.
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome, great to have you joining us.
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Our guests today learned in the most unfortunate manner possible,
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how deeply inadequate it is to have solely government support
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services available for the surviving family of military members who've
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lost their life in service. An Air Force veteran herself
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in nineteen ninety two, she lost her husband in a
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military plane crash. However, driven by our personal experience following
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that loss, she took something horrible and turned it into
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something good for others. The Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors,
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also known as TAPS, is a national nonprofit organization providing
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compassionate care and comprehensive resources to all those craving a
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death in the military or better on community. In twenty
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twenty four, eight nine and eleven survivors connected with TAPS
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and user services. Last year, they welcome ninety five hundred
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new survivors. That's an important statistic we'll devel into that
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a little bit later in the program. Our guest today
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is a recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom for
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establishing TAPS and guiding it through more than three decades
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of support to our fellow military families. Welcome to American
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Warrior Radio, Bonnie Carroll.
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Thanks so much, Ben. It's an honor to be with
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you today.
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So just to keep the lawyers happy, Bonnie, I have
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to do this. TAPS is a federally recognized nonprofit organization
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that is completely privately funded. It is not associated nor
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endorsed by the Department of War. Did I do that right?
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Yes? That is correct.
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Okay, military service apparently is in your DNA, Bonnie, as
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I understand it, your mother flu air planes during World
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War Two? Was she a WASP for part of some
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secret program we still don't know about.
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She actually she was part of the Women's Harvy Air
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Corps and she you know, her father actually served in
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the army and she was born on Fort Bliss. Oh wow,
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So you know, we go back at least you know,
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a couple of generations that I'm aware of, and probably
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way beyond that. But she inspired me to serve. She
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sadly died while I was a teenager from cancer, and
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I didn't get to really understand a lot about her
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service as an adult myself. But it was so important
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to her that she had served our country. And so
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in my twenties, I stepped away from a career in
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Washington to join the Air National Guard.
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What were you doing in Washington at the time. Were
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you a lobbyist or on staff or you know.
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I was working on Capitol Hill actually for a firm
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that was advising on defense issues and doing some campaign work.
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But it gave me insight into into how our government works,
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and it was just really important, rather than looking at
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it from the inside, that I stepped in to serve myself.
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Well, that's very interesting because so basically, when you were
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looking at founding TAPS, you already had a lot of
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the tools on both sides, both the civilian and the
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military equation that you're bringing a bear.
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Yes, absolutely, you know, looking at it from so many
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different perspectives, and you know, serving in the Air National
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Guard was the one of the best decisions I ever
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made in my life. It actually was how I met
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my husband.
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It is.
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Over the years, I've served in a number of capacities
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as a technician in the Guard, been mobilized to active
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duty after nine to eleven. So it's been a very
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important part of my life.
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So that was gonna be my next question, Bonnie, that
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you know how you and Tom met, because Tom was incorrect.
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He was army. Yes, he served. His father had actually
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been killed in an Army Guard plane crash. His father
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was the first Adjutant General of the State of Alaska
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and tragically was killed in a C one twenty three
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crash when Tom was just a teenager. So we shared
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the loss of a parent as a teen and then
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he went on to serve ten years active duty Army,
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came home to Alaska to ultimately take command of the
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Army National Guard. And so we met while I was
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working in the West wing of the White House and
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the President actually introduced us.
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Wow was he did he? Do you attend the ceremony?
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Was the best man or anything like that or not
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quite that? Not quite high.
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He was very, very grateful that, you know, we had
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connected and found happiness. It was a circumstances. Was actually
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stranded gray whales up in Alaska that was making national
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news at that time, and Tom was the commander overseeing
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that operation, and the President asked me, knowing I was
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a National guardsman, if I would look into it and
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see how the government could help.
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Okay, well, there's it's ironic. I didn't know that about
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Tom's father, and now you mentioned who had he hearted.
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The rank of brigadier general was, as I understand, as
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serving as the assistant Additon General of the Alaska Army
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National Guard at that time. Tell us about that fateful
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day November twelfth, nineteen ninety two, Bunny.
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Oh, you know, Tom had just been promoted to brigadier general.
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It was a routine flight with a visiting two star
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general from Trade Dock who was just up to see
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the units in Alaska. We had the entire senior leadership
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of the Army Guard, Alaska Army Guard on board the
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C twelve aircraft. I saw them all off that morning,
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beautiful sunny day and anchorage, but it was a complete
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wide out. Where they were going and the landing in Juno,
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Alaska is very tricky and on this day, very tragically
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due to a number of circumstances. As is the case
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in many aviation losses, it resulted in them crashing in
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the mountains and it being unsurvivable.
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How how long did it take for you to get
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the notification because you know you hear about that. You know,
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you get the knock on the door of the doorbear
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rings and here's you know, a chaplain and someone else
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in uniform, and you know that's going to be a
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bad day.
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You know, thank you Ben for asking. It was actually,
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I would say four different levels of kind of notification.
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The first was just that the aircraft was missing. And
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then it was you know, the amount of time when
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they knew that they were out of fuel and they
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were somewhere but down on the ground. And then it
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was eventually when the aircraft was located and they were
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able to determine that there were no survivors. So it
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was about a twelve hour period of hope of just
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praying that somehow they were okay and safe. But you know,
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despite my service, despite you know, everything that I had
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done throughout my career, and thinking that I could be
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there for all the others affected by this tragedy when
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it is so personal, it's absolutely devastating.
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You know, I've never, thankfully, never experienced anything even near that, Bonnie,
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but I'm fascinated by the time, and we just had
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you know, Mark Murphy on the show talking about, you know,
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he's down in the basement. His thirteen year old son
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comes down and said, Dad, there's some guys in fancy suits,
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and you know, he comes up from the basement. He
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was active duty military and the minute he saw them,
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he kind of figured, you know, it was going to
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be a bad day. But he also talks about the
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distance in time between when he knew that his son
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had been killed and the fact that his wife was
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upstairs watching TV and for her their son was still alive,
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and that matter of seconds from going from the front
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door upstairs to notify his wife and then of course
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her reaction just very very powerful stuff. And that's why
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I wanted to have you on because I think so
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many civilians out there, thankfully, like I said, we've never
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had that experience, probably will never will, thank God, but
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it's important there's folks like you that are out there
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available to help people real quick. We got about a
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minute before we have to take our first break, Vonnie.
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Part of your service in the Air National Guard included
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a stint as the chief of Casualty Operations at the
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US Air Force Headquarters I'm curious did you serve in
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that role before or after Tom was killed?
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After And actually Kathy Prout, who also lost her husband
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he was in a C twenty one crash in the
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Air Force, had called me. This is a few years
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after Tom was killed, and she asked me to transition
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to the Air Force Reserve and come down to Randolph
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to serve in that reserve capacity. So I was honored
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to do that.
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And at that time, I assume this is pre TAPS,
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but you're in this role, and at that time were
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you did you already start to notice some gaps in
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what was taking what the government was doing for these families?
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You know?
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That actually was after TAPS was established, Okay, So it
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was in those you know, in those first months after
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Tom was killed, that I started seeing that there was
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a need.
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Okay, super ladies and gentlemen, Ben bu le Garcia, we're
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talking with Bonnie Carroll Shears, the founder of the Tragedy
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Assistance Program for Survivors, also known as TAPS. If you're
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grieving the loss of a fallen service member or if
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you had no someone who could use some support, called
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the TAPS twenty for our national military survivortline. That number
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is eight hundred nine five nine TAPS. That's eight hundred
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nine nine eight two seven seven stick around will be
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right back. Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Lasion, gentlemen,
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this is Ben Bueler Garcia, a real privileged to be
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talking with Bonnie Carroll. Bonnie is the founder of TAPS,
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the Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors. Bonnie, that's a that's
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a mouth. I'm gonna try and just use TAPS for
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the rest of the show because it's not my first language, Bonnie,
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so I sometimes struggle, but I'm curious. So successful entrepreneurs.
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We had a lot of veteran entrepreneurs on the show before.
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They identify a gap in the marketplace and they fill it.
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How you use that phrase, how deeply inadequate sometimes the
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government services were? What were those gaps that you identified
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when you decided to move forward with TAPS, if you
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could share some of them for our listeners.
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Absolutely, and grief is one of the most misunderstood experiences
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that we have as human beings. You know, a lot
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of folks think it's depression, it's you know, something that
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you can see a grief counselor and resolve. But grief
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is a normal human response to the loss of a
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loved one, and in the military environment it often is
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complicated by being a very public loss. You know, my
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husband's death and the death of you know, eight on
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more to military aircraft was you know, headline news, it
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was on CNN, But for our family it was you know,
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absolutely devastating and a change that has you know, transformed
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the rest of my life. So in the years that followed,
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I really looked into what was there for families like mine.
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Where was the community where we could come together and
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find a way forward, to support each other, To find
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additional resources that weren't available in the federal government, to
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go beyond what the casualty officer can provide. You know,
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General Martin Dempsey, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,
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who's on our board. It puts it so beautifully. Since
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the military does a magnificent job of rendering final honors,
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providing a final resting place, and administering benefits to those
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who are eligible. But then it really is up to
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us to come together, to wrap our arms around each other,
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to provide that twenty four to seven care, comfort, resources,
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support and go forward as the living legacies of American
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service and sacrifice.
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That's very powerful stuff, Bonnie. I in my day job,
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I've been involved in establishing several nonprofits, none of them national,
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but it's it's a heavy haul. Did you have some help?
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Did you have some mentors? Did you when you first
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kicked this off, did you have any inkling that it
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would grow as much as it had?
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Well? I knew there was a need, absolutely, and it
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was very very intentional and purposeful to take the time
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to make sure it didn't already exist. Now you know,
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I always share that with others who are thinking about
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starting something, is look to what already exists and see
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how you can amplify it. And in this case, it
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actually didn't exist. There was no place where all those
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grieving a loss could come together and find grief and
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trauma resources to do peer based emotional support that was
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facilitated to do casework, assistance that went beyond what the
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federal government could provide only to those eligible. So TAPPS
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has a very broad eligibility all those grieving a life
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that included service to this country. We provide twenty four
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to seven helpline. As you mentioned, because grief is not
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nine to five Monday through Friday. We provide peer based
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emotional support because only those with lived experience can truly
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come beside those newly bereaved. There's a recent crash of
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a B fifty two aircraft with eight on board. I
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had the opportunity to speak with several of the families
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and just the fact that I could come into their
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life and say me too, my husband with eight on
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board military aviation loss. Immediately we had that connection and
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could have that honest, raw, authentic conversation.
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Now, Bonnie, I see I never served, and I see
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through the platform of this radio show, but I've been
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involved in supporting the military of my entire adult life
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going on were almost forty years. And I see my
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role really as a translator. And because I know enough,
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I know the words, I know the lingo, I know,
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I've been exposed to the sacrifice, the huge sacrifice these
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families make. I never miss an opportunity to educate the
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civilian population about the fact that this is a very
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dangerous business, even when someone is not shooting at you.
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And so many of these losses that you mentioned, it
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wasn't you know, someone getting shot down or something like that.
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It was just just stuff. Stuff happens. I'm curious, Bonnie. You,
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as I mentioned, you're the received recipient in the Middle
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of Freedom. I believe it was from President Obama if
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not mistaken, correct, Yes, okay, how do you respond? Maybe
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not a fair question, but Ben gets at least one
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dumb question every showed because it's my darn show. Well,
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how do you respond when people allude to you as
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a two time hero for your military service and then
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for what you're doing with tabs? Is that a lot
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of weight on your shoulders or just comes with the territory?
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Oh gosh, Well, you're very kind man. I you know,
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I'm humble to have served and very proud of that
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service in the Air Guard and the Air Force Reserve.
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I actually went to Baghdad for a year as a
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Department of the Army civilian. But I'm most proud of
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my husband's service. He served in combat and then came
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home and continued to serve. So, you know, the moment
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of the manner of death does not define the years
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of life and service. And I think that's really important
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for your listeners to understand whether the death that moment
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in time was through combat service or accident or illness
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or suicide. We honor a life lived in defense of democracy.
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It's interesting you mentioned that, Bonnie, because I was doing
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my show PRIP that that quote really jumped out at
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me and it was quickly moving beyond the moment and
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manner of death. It's about the life of service in
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your experience. That's that's important, so people don't get stuck
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at that initial point and they can finally open up
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and maybe talk about it. Absolutely, it doesn't it doesn't matter, right,
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I mean, it doesn't matter if it's a suicide or
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a combat death to your.
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Organization, absolutely, you know, And for the families, to be honest,
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it's the same knock on the door, it's the same benefits.
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It's the same folded flag placed on the casket of
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a life that included that service.
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Okay, I tell you, Bonnie, when I come back, I
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want to delve a little bit more into what your
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organization does and maybe touch on some of the programs.
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We don't have enough time to cover them all because
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there's just there's just a ton thank goodness, But where
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can people find more more about TAPS?
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Well?
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Please follow us on social media at TAPS org. That's
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taps RG. Our website is TAPS dot org and our
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helpline again is eight hundred and nine five nine TAPS.
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Super Ladies and gentlemhen. I was looking at some of
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the data on the TAPS website and of the families
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they have helped. This is very intriguing. Thirty seven percent
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of them were active duty, thirty four percent over a
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third we're veterans. But only three percent lost their lives
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to hostile action, thirty seven percent to illness, and twenty
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nine percent to suicide. That I don't do math in public,
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but that's over fifty percent, and that should cause us
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a great deal of concern. So stick around. We're going
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to talk a little more with Bonnie Carrol, the founder
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of CHAPS, about what she and her organization are doing
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to address this problem. Don't forget ladies and gentlemen. These
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stories are so important, and your support for these organizations
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to support others are so important. Please share these messages.
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You can find over six hundred podcasts at American Warrior
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Radio dot com. You can also find us on all
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the major platforms of its, iTunes, Spotify, Pandora, wherever you
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listen to your podcast. You can find American Warrior Radio,
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00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:46.279
and please, I'm asking you to share these important messages
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with your friends and colleague. Stick around, we'll be read back.
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Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen. We're
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talking with Bonnie Carroll. She is the founder of TAPS,
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the Transition Tragedy Assistance. I see, Bonnie, I told you
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I'd messed it up, the Tragedy Assistance Program for survivors.
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It's just a huge nonprofit out there doing huge things
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for the families of our military members who've lost their
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lives while in service. Bonnie, those numbers I cited that
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it shocks me a little bit because I think you're
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average civilian out there. When we think about death and
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service to our country, they're thinking about a combat death,
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or as we mentioned, you know, maybe sometimes an actual
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training death, or you know, a plane goes down, a
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mechanical failure or something like that. But you I saw
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an interview, and this might be counterintuitive to your average civilian,
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but the numbers of families that you're assisting or a
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parent going up. You said you're seeing three times more
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now than the wartime rate. Explain that to our listeners
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out there.
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Well, you know, twenty years of deployments meant that, you know,
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we were able through incredible medicine, Through medics cormen who
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are highly trained, practically wearing an ICU on their backs
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to get to a wounded service member in combat and
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keep them alive, get them to Lonstul the Walter Reed
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de Bamsei and for many families they have become become caregivers.
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In some cases now for decades and just now, we
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are seeing service members who are sadly dying of injuries.
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We're seeing a tremendous number dying of cancers as a
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result of exposures to toxins, to burn pits. Well deployed,
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we're seeing a very high rate of suicide. Since January
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of twenty twenty, we've had, according to the Department of
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War Statistics, about thirty eight classified as hostile action. In
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the six and a half years, there were two two
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hundred and seventy two tragically who died by suicide on
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active duty. So for TAPS, again, we honor life and service.
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We honor the fact that this individual step forward to
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serve in defense of democracy, and we care for the
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families who have not only stood by them as they
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may have deployed and served, but then stood by them
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as caregivers. And whether that was caregiving to an illness
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and injury or to trauma, we recognize that journey.
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Bonnie. I also spent some time lobbing, and one of
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the lessons I learned early on in my career was
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from a kind of a grouchy old Chermogeny legislator, was
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he would always use the most extreme example permutation of
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something to make his point, talk about how it doesn't
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matter how how they died. So would let's say I've
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got a ninety one hundred and four year old World
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War Two veteran who God rest his soul, he just
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passes in his sleep. But that does as a family,
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I'm still grieving. Are they eligible for your assistance as well?
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They're absolutely eligible. But an interesting thing then, most of
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our the survivors who come to TAPS are grieving a
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lass that included the military community. Chances are, if it
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was someone you know at those advanced age, they've been
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settled into a community where they're surrounded by their church,
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by their you know, their local support systems. So we're
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seeing really those who have died in their you know,
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in their twenties, their thirties, the younger generations.
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Okay, and this is an extreme on the other end,
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but I have to ask, I know a lot of
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dual service couples and families, and have you ever had
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a young person who lost both parents?
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We sure have, in fact, yeah, quite a well, quite
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a number when that would be counterintuitive. Ashland Haycock Lohman
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is a beautiful example. She lost her father in the
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Army National Guard and then her mother, who was an
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Air Force veteran. Her mother passed when she was in college,
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and Ashland, who had grown up in the Good Grief Camp,
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became an advocate for other kids and actually transformed education
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benefits and now has worked for US for gosh more
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than a decade and is doing great work up on
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Capitol Hill in honor of both her mother and father.
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But she has been a mentor along with her brother,
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to other children in TAPS who have lost both parents.
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So you're exactly right. It's very difficult. You know. We
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have circumstances where surviving children tragically have passed or where
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it has been and a homicide suicide situation, and no
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one else is there for the family, and we can
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step in again and recognize not this moment, this horrific
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moment of the death, but the years of the life
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and the love that this family has for that individual
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who served Bonnie.
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I'm curious just psychologically, because I've been told that sometimes
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if someone dials you know, that phone number at two
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in the morning, Bonnie is the person answering the phone.
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And you've been doing this for thirty years, you had
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your own trauma. How do you how do you do
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that and not let that trauma just like like layers
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of paint kind of weigh up on your shoulders and
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weigh up on your shoulders. What's Bonnie's secret if you
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can share that?
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Well? But you know, what I hear from our families
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is the pride they have and their loved ones life
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and service. You know, we only grieve because we love
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of grief is really tied to that love. And in
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the conversations I've been so privileged to have over the
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years with families, what I hear is the love that
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they have for that individual and giving them this safe
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space to share those stories, to tell me not about
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again the death story, but to recount the life story.
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You know, We're all here in this physical existence for
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a limited amount of time. But what a blessing, you know,
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for our spouses that they found that person, that they
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had the time that they did, that we can give
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them now this wonderful community to honor and remember the
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life lived, you know, for our parents to remember that
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service member as a child, and just be in this
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place where they are understood, they are embraced, they are
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given additional resources and care and a safe landing to
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honor and remember that life.
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Bonnie. I got in trouble with the wife of a
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three star general several years ago when I was serving
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as his honorary commander, and at the going away barbecue,
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I said, look, I'll never be one of you, and
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I meant that, and they were very warm, they welcomed
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you into the tribe, and she just gave this looked
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like you know you ungrateful loud, and I felt like
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I had to explain myself. I'll never wear the uniform,
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I'll never write a blank check to my fellow citizens,
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payable up to and including my life. I will never
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leave my family for special occasions so that other people
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can celebrate with theirs. And it just and I guess
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that's why I continue to do this show, and I
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want I want you to share that with our listeners.
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I'm curious, so three decades so you must now be
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And you mentioned that one young lady. How you call
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I think they're called legacy members. So I guess the
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point is I I can relate, I can translate, but
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I've never been there, done that. Warn the T shirt
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in your in your case, how important is it having
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yourself and other volunteers who right off the bat can
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break that that you know? In to the new conversation,
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I'm saying, look, I've been there, I know what you've
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been going through and it does get better or you know,
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is that that's got to be absolutely critical to your mission?
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Yeah, oh, Ben, you know. And what really it just
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touches me so much is for our kids, you know,
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for little kids that have lost a dad and no
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one else in their classes had that experience. They don't
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understand the military. Maybe you know, the family had to
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move away around a community that knows nothing about military service.
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And we have these kids that come to Good Grief Camp.
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They're wearing their photo button and they've got their pictures
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and they come running in and I saw this this
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little girl she ran up to another child about her height,
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she was maybe five or six years old, and she
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just blurts out to this kid, she goes, is your
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dad dad? And this other kid is like, uh huh,
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me too, And then they immediately just start talking about
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what their little life has been like. And some of
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these kids at school now are bullied because they don't
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have a dad, which is so cruel, you know. But
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in the Good Grief Camp, they find a community that
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gets it, that understands, that can speak authentically, that can
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be there for each other to have each other's back.
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And we have kids that have grown up in Good
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Grief Camp now who came in strollers and are now
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legacy mentors in their twenties and thirties even who are
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there for the next generation.
483
00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:29.200
Bonnie, when we come back and wanted you to talk
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00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:31.240
more and maybe just share some of the types of
485
00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:34.000
programs that you offer. I just I'm a huge when
486
00:28:34.039 --> 00:28:36.359
I was a big Charles schultzkge growing up. So I
487
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:39.240
love the Good Grief Camp. But obviously that's not the
488
00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:42.799
same reference, so so great name there, So we come back,
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00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:44.880
I like to chat more about that, ladies, and gentlemen,
490
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:47.799
is your host Ben by Deergarcia. We're talking to Bonnie
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00:28:47.799 --> 00:29:13.200
Carrol from Tapstick Ground. Welcome back to America Warrior Radio.
492
00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:16.079
Lasion and gentlemen, Ben bieler Garcia your host. We're talking
493
00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:19.160
with Bonnie Carroll, the founder of TAPS. If you're grieving
494
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:21.240
the loss of a fallen service member, if you know
495
00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:23.839
someone who could use support, called TAPS is twenty four
496
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:27.279
our National Military Survivor Hotline. That number is one eight
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00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:30.559
hundred nine five nine TAPS. That's one eight hundred nine
498
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:35.559
nine eight two seven seven Bonnie. As I mentioned, we
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00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:37.920
don't have time to cover everything you do, but I
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00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:40.640
want to go back to something I mentioned in the
501
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:43.279
introduction because I don't want people to get the wrong impression.
502
00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:49.039
TAPS is not financially supported and it's not endorsed by
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00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:53.799
the Department of War, but you do have an exceptional relationship.
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00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:58.039
We do. Ever, since you know the founding of the organization,
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00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:02.440
the military recognize that we provide services and resources that
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00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:05.759
the federal government can't. There are things that we can
507
00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:10.839
do with our emergency financial assistance immediately for a family,
508
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.839
and they lean on that and recognize that. So it's
509
00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:19.759
been a beautiful relationship. Being a nonprofit organization of veterans
510
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:25.480
and military service organization allows us that flexibility and.
511
00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:29.440
If I'm not mistaken, these all these services are completely
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00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:31.680
free of charge to the families.
513
00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:35.960
Correct, absolutely, And we're so grateful to have wonderful partners
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00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:40.640
like USAA, Prudential, New York Life, even the NFL has
515
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:43.519
become a very big partner of ours over the years
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00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:45.480
that allow us to do the work we do and
517
00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:48.319
support all those grieving a loss.
518
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:50.920
Now there are again if folks go to your website
519
00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:53.160
they can learn more. But there's just a ton of
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00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:55.319
programs you touched on. The Good Grief Camp, which I
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00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:59.519
believe is held on Memorial Day weekend. Correct, that's our.
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00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:03.240
Biggest Actually over a Memorial Day, we do our national
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00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:06.480
gathering for the families, and we have thousands of family
524
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:10.799
members who come together in Arlington, Virginia for five days
525
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:16.279
of programming, of sharing groups, of memorial events. But we
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00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:19.519
do these all throughout the year. Last year we did
527
00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:24.000
more than thirteen hundred events all across the country. It's
528
00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:27.359
everything from our family camps to regional seminars what we
529
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:33.400
call taps togethers, care groups, and local communities, women's empowerment programs.
530
00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.240
We do a big partnership with professional sports, so just
531
00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:38.559
lots of opportunities.
532
00:31:39.559 --> 00:31:41.559
I found it really interesting too that you do have
533
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:45.880
dedicated programs to you know, both men and women, and
534
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:49.000
then a program specifically dedicated to those family members who
535
00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:53.359
lost a loved one to suicide. So you're really drilling
536
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.799
down and I think that reinforces the hey, I've been there,
537
00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:59.319
done that, you know, we can talk sort of element
538
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:02.160
which is just so important to your success.
539
00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:07.400
Absolutely, and know we have programs that recognize those who
540
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.759
have been caregivers and the unique experience that they have
541
00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:13.759
now to redefine who they are going to be after
542
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:18.720
the loss. We have coming up our national gathering of
543
00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:22.640
suicide loss survivors and now we have over thirty thousand
544
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.440
family members who have lost a love one to suicide
545
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.839
in the military and veteran community. So that is a
546
00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:32.680
complicated grief journey. And coming together with some of the
547
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:37.039
best experts in America suicideologists who can help guide our
548
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:42.440
families through this difficult grief journey along with their peers,
549
00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:44.319
is incredibly therapeutic.
550
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:48.720
I tell you what, something that almost made me weep.
551
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:53.880
Bonnie when I was exploring your website was the fact
552
00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:58.440
that TAPS is now worldwide and the State Department apparently
553
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:02.880
approached you about doing some work in Ukraine. And you know,
554
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:05.359
I never thought of it this way, but in seeing
555
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:11.559
that loss in war is an international language, right, I mean,
556
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:16.160
grief is an international emotion. And there was even a quote,
557
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:18.160
I think it was from a Fox News piece was
558
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:21.440
talking about how some of these Ukrainian widows are literally
559
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:23.599
working on the front lines and saying, look, what have
560
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:26.440
we got left to lose? We've lost our loved ones,
561
00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:30.079
what's left? So we're going to help others. Incredibly touching
562
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:31.079
and inspirational.
563
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:35.400
Well back, we started the international work, you know, twenty
564
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:39.599
years ago, and I spent a year in Baghdad, Iraq
565
00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:43.480
on the reconstruction, but got to meet so many of
566
00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:46.319
the women who had lost their loved ones in the
567
00:33:46.359 --> 00:33:50.240
Iraqi army and found that, you know, they're grieving just
568
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:53.839
like our family. So we started bringing together Iraqi war
569
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:57.400
widows and mothers with American war widows and mothers, and
570
00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:00.599
that grew from there. We now, you know, as you said,
571
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:04.480
have been in Ukraine since the twenty fourteen war. We
572
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:08.239
have a beautiful headquarters in eastern Ukraine, right on the
573
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:13.320
front lines with incredible programs for families and children who
574
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:17.880
are grieving loss to bring stabilization and comfort and resources.
575
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:22.079
Bonnie, were unfortunately running out of time, but I'm sure
576
00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:24.360
you didn't. You knew you wouldn't have to sell me
577
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:27.960
on this concept. But what can our listeners do to
578
00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:33.480
support you in TAPS? Are there obviously financial contributions and
579
00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:36.119
you don't to volunteer for your organization. You don't necessarily
580
00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:38.280
have to be someone who's experienced loss, correct, I mean,
581
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:39.679
you've got plenty of roles to fill.
582
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:44.519
We do, absolutely, We love volunteers, We appreciate support. Please
583
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:48.239
visit TAPS dot org, you know to learn more and
584
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:50.920
thank you Ben for the opportunity to share our mission
585
00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:51.679
with your listeners.
586
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:54.400
Well we're not quite done yet, Bonnie. So one thing
587
00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:56.280
other thing you do, which is near and dear to
588
00:34:56.360 --> 00:34:59.519
what I do in my day job is advocacy. What
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00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:03.679
going to Capitol Hill or wherever it might be and
590
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:07.239
advocating for these families in these programs? Are there? What
591
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:10.079
issues do you need help with now? Are there any
592
00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:11.039
that you could cite?
593
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:15.199
Absolutely? You know we have our Advocacy Week coming out.
594
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.400
We have one hundred and fifty surviving family members who
595
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:21.239
will be in Washington visiting every office on Capitol Hill
596
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:25.480
right now. Our number one is the Love Lives On Act,
597
00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:30.719
and that is, you know, removing this stipulation that if
598
00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:34.119
a widow remarries before the age of fifty five, she
599
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:39.280
and her children lose all benefits, and that is it's archaic.
600
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:41.599
We're the only country in the world that does that,
601
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:45.519
and it's time to change. So that's our number one
602
00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:47.840
issue and we're very close to getting that across the
603
00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:49.480
finish line.
604
00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:52.119
I'm flabbergasted that that's even a thing.
605
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:58.000
Thank you, as it should not be, and hopefully that
606
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:01.760
will be a fixed this year. But we are family.
607
00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:05.400
We've even had children talking about how important it is
608
00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:07.960
to them, you know, to have the opportunity to have
609
00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:12.800
a two parent household, and you know, so I really
610
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:14.039
appreciate that support.
611
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:17.960
Well, I'll tell you what I will definitely I will
612
00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:20.880
definitely chat with my congressmen and folks that I'm close
613
00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:22.800
with about that. I think the nice thing for you
614
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:25.360
is you're not you don't have to appear before appropriations.
615
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:28.119
You're not asking for money, right you know, and.
616
00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:31.559
That gives us tremendous flexibility to do what we need
617
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:36.159
to do and support families with whatever needs they have. Absolutely, Bonnie.
618
00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:38.280
Just the last question. I don't know if you feel
619
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:42.320
comfortable answering this or not, but my concern is a
620
00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:45.280
civilian who's been engaged in supporting our military families and
621
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:50.159
our first responder families as well for decades now. The
622
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:56.960
manner with which we withdrew from Afghanistan I found extremely disconcerting,
623
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:01.159
and in fact I know of a tenant colonel and
624
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:04.119
who resigned his commission over it. He said, after I
625
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:07.960
can no longer wear this uniform? Is that? And I
626
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:11.480
guess my concern is, given all the blood and the
627
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:16.360
treasure expended there in that country for someone who had
628
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:21.800
thirteen deployments and came back missing an appendage, is that
629
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:24.800
do you see that? Is that driving an increase in
630
00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:27.960
suicide or challenges? Or would you rather not speak to that?
631
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:33.280
Oh, there are so many factors, so much trauma. Immediately
632
00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:37.599
after the fall of Afghanistan, immediately TAPS pulled together a
633
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:40.760
panel including the defense at the Shave from Afghanistan, the
634
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:46.079
now former ambassador, our families who had lost loved ones
635
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:50.639
and also trauma specialists to talk about this, to really
636
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:52.840
put it into a context that we could understand and
637
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:56.679
move forward from. We can't control the politics, we can't
638
00:37:56.719 --> 00:38:00.360
control military operations, but what we can do is honor
639
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:06.119
lives lived in service to this country. And you know,
640
00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:10.920
as a defense at Lache from Afghanistan, so beautifully Puddity.
641
00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:12.960
You know, he appeared in uniform and he said, I
642
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.639
wear the uniform of a country that no longer exists,
643
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:18.920
as it had an army that no longer stands, he said,
644
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:22.480
But I honor and will always treasure the service of
645
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:26.719
every American who came to my land to defend our people.
646
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:33.559
And we raised a generation of Afghan citizens, of girls especially,
647
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:37.199
who will never forget the foundation we gave them. We
648
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:41.239
don't know what the future holds, but we know that
649
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:42.679
we served.
650
00:38:43.639 --> 00:38:46.480
Bonnie. That's absolutely beautiful. Thank you, Thank you for sharing that.
651
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:48.559
Ladies and gentlemen. If you'd like to learn more of
652
00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:52.960
visit TAPS dot org. TAPS dot org, and don't forget
653
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:56.559
their national twenty four our Military Survivor Hotline, which is
654
00:38:56.599 --> 00:38:59.559
eight hundred nine five nine TAPS that spelled out that
655
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:02.840
the number there for taps US eight to seven seven. Bonnie,
656
00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:04.679
thank you so much for what you're doing and what
657
00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:06.920
you have done, and what you continue to do for
658
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:10.679
our military families and you know, starting it maybe one
659
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:13.000
of the worst days of their life and helping them heal,
660
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:17.360
helping them post traumatic growth, I guess is the phrase
661
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:18.039
I'm looking.
662
00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:20.719
For, Absolutely, Ben, and thank you for allowing me to
663
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.519
share our mission with your listeners. So grateful to you.
664
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:27.239
Wonderful Until next time, ladies and gentlemen, all policies and
665
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:29.199
procedures or to remain in place. Take care.
666
00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:40.719
You've been listening to American Warrior Radio. Archived episodes may
667
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:50.239
be found at americanwarriorradio dot com or your favorite podcast platform.
1
00:00:04.599 --> 00:00:09.039
We all owe them, but very few of us know them.
2
00:00:10.039 --> 00:00:12.439
They are the men and women of our military and
3
00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:20.480
first responder communities, and these are their stories. American Warrior Radio.
4
00:00:20.719 --> 00:00:27.839
Is on the air. You're turning to American Warrior Radio.
5
00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:30.519
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome, great to have you joining us.
6
00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:34.880
Our guests today learned in the most unfortunate manner possible,
7
00:00:35.240 --> 00:00:38.679
how deeply inadequate it is to have solely government support
8
00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:42.039
services available for the surviving family of military members who've
9
00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:45.159
lost their life in service. An Air Force veteran herself
10
00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:47.799
in nineteen ninety two, she lost her husband in a
11
00:00:47.840 --> 00:00:51.880
military plane crash. However, driven by our personal experience following
12
00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:54.840
that loss, she took something horrible and turned it into
13
00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:58.840
something good for others. The Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors,
14
00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:02.679
also known as TAPS, is a national nonprofit organization providing
15
00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:06.439
compassionate care and comprehensive resources to all those craving a
16
00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:09.239
death in the military or better on community. In twenty
17
00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:13.200
twenty four, eight nine and eleven survivors connected with TAPS
18
00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:17.680
and user services. Last year, they welcome ninety five hundred
19
00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:20.239
new survivors. That's an important statistic we'll devel into that
20
00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:22.640
a little bit later in the program. Our guest today
21
00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:24.760
is a recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom for
22
00:01:24.879 --> 00:01:27.599
establishing TAPS and guiding it through more than three decades
23
00:01:27.840 --> 00:01:31.239
of support to our fellow military families. Welcome to American
24
00:01:31.239 --> 00:01:32.519
Warrior Radio, Bonnie Carroll.
25
00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:35.040
Thanks so much, Ben. It's an honor to be with
26
00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:35.680
you today.
27
00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:40.439
So just to keep the lawyers happy, Bonnie, I have
28
00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:44.200
to do this. TAPS is a federally recognized nonprofit organization
29
00:01:44.280 --> 00:01:48.159
that is completely privately funded. It is not associated nor
30
00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:50.719
endorsed by the Department of War. Did I do that right?
31
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Yes? That is correct.
32
00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:58.200
Okay, military service apparently is in your DNA, Bonnie, as
33
00:01:58.200 --> 00:02:00.760
I understand it, your mother flu air planes during World
34
00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:03.159
War Two? Was she a WASP for part of some
35
00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:04.840
secret program we still don't know about.
36
00:02:05.359 --> 00:02:07.959
She actually she was part of the Women's Harvy Air
37
00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:11.479
Corps and she you know, her father actually served in
38
00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:14.759
the army and she was born on Fort Bliss. Oh wow,
39
00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:17.280
So you know, we go back at least you know,
40
00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:19.879
a couple of generations that I'm aware of, and probably
41
00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:23.960
way beyond that. But she inspired me to serve. She
42
00:02:24.439 --> 00:02:28.759
sadly died while I was a teenager from cancer, and
43
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I didn't get to really understand a lot about her
44
00:02:31.800 --> 00:02:35.400
service as an adult myself. But it was so important
45
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to her that she had served our country. And so
46
00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:41.080
in my twenties, I stepped away from a career in
47
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Washington to join the Air National Guard.
48
00:02:45.159 --> 00:02:47.159
What were you doing in Washington at the time. Were
49
00:02:47.159 --> 00:02:50.479
you a lobbyist or on staff or you know.
50
00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:53.400
I was working on Capitol Hill actually for a firm
51
00:02:53.439 --> 00:02:59.240
that was advising on defense issues and doing some campaign work.
52
00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:06.879
But it gave me insight into into how our government works,
53
00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:10.560
and it was just really important, rather than looking at
54
00:03:10.599 --> 00:03:13.400
it from the inside, that I stepped in to serve myself.
55
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Well, that's very interesting because so basically, when you were
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looking at founding TAPS, you already had a lot of
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the tools on both sides, both the civilian and the
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military equation that you're bringing a bear.
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Yes, absolutely, you know, looking at it from so many
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different perspectives, and you know, serving in the Air National
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Guard was the one of the best decisions I ever
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made in my life. It actually was how I met
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my husband.
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It is.
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Over the years, I've served in a number of capacities
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as a technician in the Guard, been mobilized to active
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duty after nine to eleven. So it's been a very
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important part of my life.
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So that was gonna be my next question, Bonnie, that
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you know how you and Tom met, because Tom was incorrect.
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He was army. Yes, he served. His father had actually
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been killed in an Army Guard plane crash. His father
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was the first Adjutant General of the State of Alaska
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and tragically was killed in a C one twenty three
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crash when Tom was just a teenager. So we shared
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the loss of a parent as a teen and then
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he went on to serve ten years active duty Army,
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came home to Alaska to ultimately take command of the
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Army National Guard. And so we met while I was
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working in the West wing of the White House and
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the President actually introduced us.
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Wow was he did he? Do you attend the ceremony?
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Was the best man or anything like that or not
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quite that? Not quite high.
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He was very, very grateful that, you know, we had
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connected and found happiness. It was a circumstances. Was actually
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stranded gray whales up in Alaska that was making national
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news at that time, and Tom was the commander overseeing
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that operation, and the President asked me, knowing I was
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a National guardsman, if I would look into it and
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see how the government could help.
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Okay, well, there's it's ironic. I didn't know that about
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Tom's father, and now you mentioned who had he hearted.
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The rank of brigadier general was, as I understand, as
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serving as the assistant Additon General of the Alaska Army
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National Guard at that time. Tell us about that fateful
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day November twelfth, nineteen ninety two, Bunny.
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Oh, you know, Tom had just been promoted to brigadier general.
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It was a routine flight with a visiting two star
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general from Trade Dock who was just up to see
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the units in Alaska. We had the entire senior leadership
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of the Army Guard, Alaska Army Guard on board the
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C twelve aircraft. I saw them all off that morning,
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beautiful sunny day and anchorage, but it was a complete
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wide out. Where they were going and the landing in Juno,
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Alaska is very tricky and on this day, very tragically
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due to a number of circumstances. As is the case
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in many aviation losses, it resulted in them crashing in
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the mountains and it being unsurvivable.
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How how long did it take for you to get
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the notification because you know you hear about that. You know,
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you get the knock on the door of the doorbear
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rings and here's you know, a chaplain and someone else
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in uniform, and you know that's going to be a
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bad day.
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You know, thank you Ben for asking. It was actually,
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I would say four different levels of kind of notification.
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The first was just that the aircraft was missing. And
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then it was you know, the amount of time when
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they knew that they were out of fuel and they
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were somewhere but down on the ground. And then it
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was eventually when the aircraft was located and they were
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able to determine that there were no survivors. So it
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was about a twelve hour period of hope of just
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praying that somehow they were okay and safe. But you know,
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despite my service, despite you know, everything that I had
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done throughout my career, and thinking that I could be
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there for all the others affected by this tragedy when
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it is so personal, it's absolutely devastating.
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You know, I've never, thankfully, never experienced anything even near that, Bonnie,
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but I'm fascinated by the time, and we just had
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you know, Mark Murphy on the show talking about, you know,
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he's down in the basement. His thirteen year old son
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comes down and said, Dad, there's some guys in fancy suits,
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and you know, he comes up from the basement. He
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was active duty military and the minute he saw them,
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he kind of figured, you know, it was going to
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be a bad day. But he also talks about the
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distance in time between when he knew that his son
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had been killed and the fact that his wife was
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upstairs watching TV and for her their son was still alive,
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and that matter of seconds from going from the front
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door upstairs to notify his wife and then of course
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her reaction just very very powerful stuff. And that's why
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I wanted to have you on because I think so
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many civilians out there, thankfully, like I said, we've never
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had that experience, probably will never will, thank God, but
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it's important there's folks like you that are out there
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available to help people real quick. We got about a
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minute before we have to take our first break, Vonnie.
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Part of your service in the Air National Guard included
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a stint as the chief of Casualty Operations at the
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US Air Force Headquarters I'm curious did you serve in
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that role before or after Tom was killed?
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After And actually Kathy Prout, who also lost her husband
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he was in a C twenty one crash in the
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Air Force, had called me. This is a few years
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after Tom was killed, and she asked me to transition
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to the Air Force Reserve and come down to Randolph
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to serve in that reserve capacity. So I was honored
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to do that.
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And at that time, I assume this is pre TAPS,
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but you're in this role, and at that time were
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you did you already start to notice some gaps in
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what was taking what the government was doing for these families?
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You know?
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That actually was after TAPS was established, Okay, So it
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was in those you know, in those first months after
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Tom was killed, that I started seeing that there was
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a need.
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Okay, super ladies and gentlemen, Ben bu le Garcia, we're
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talking with Bonnie Carroll Shears, the founder of the Tragedy
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Assistance Program for Survivors, also known as TAPS. If you're
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grieving the loss of a fallen service member or if
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you had no someone who could use some support, called
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the TAPS twenty for our national military survivortline. That number
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is eight hundred nine five nine TAPS. That's eight hundred
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nine nine eight two seven seven stick around will be
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right back. Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Lasion, gentlemen,
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this is Ben Bueler Garcia, a real privileged to be
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talking with Bonnie Carroll. Bonnie is the founder of TAPS,
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the Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors. Bonnie, that's a that's
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a mouth. I'm gonna try and just use TAPS for
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the rest of the show because it's not my first language, Bonnie,
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so I sometimes struggle, but I'm curious. So successful entrepreneurs.
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We had a lot of veteran entrepreneurs on the show before.
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They identify a gap in the marketplace and they fill it.
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How you use that phrase, how deeply inadequate sometimes the
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government services were? What were those gaps that you identified
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when you decided to move forward with TAPS, if you
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could share some of them for our listeners.
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Absolutely, and grief is one of the most misunderstood experiences
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that we have as human beings. You know, a lot
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of folks think it's depression, it's you know, something that
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you can see a grief counselor and resolve. But grief
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is a normal human response to the loss of a
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loved one, and in the military environment it often is
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complicated by being a very public loss. You know, my
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husband's death and the death of you know, eight on
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more to military aircraft was you know, headline news, it
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was on CNN, But for our family it was you know,
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absolutely devastating and a change that has you know, transformed
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the rest of my life. So in the years that followed,
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I really looked into what was there for families like mine.
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Where was the community where we could come together and
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find a way forward, to support each other, To find
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additional resources that weren't available in the federal government, to
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go beyond what the casualty officer can provide. You know,
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General Martin Dempsey, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff,
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who's on our board. It puts it so beautifully. Since
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the military does a magnificent job of rendering final honors,
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providing a final resting place, and administering benefits to those
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who are eligible. But then it really is up to
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us to come together, to wrap our arms around each other,
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to provide that twenty four to seven care, comfort, resources,
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support and go forward as the living legacies of American
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service and sacrifice.
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That's very powerful stuff, Bonnie. I in my day job,
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I've been involved in establishing several nonprofits, none of them national,
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but it's it's a heavy haul. Did you have some help?
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Did you have some mentors? Did you when you first
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kicked this off, did you have any inkling that it
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would grow as much as it had?
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Well? I knew there was a need, absolutely, and it
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was very very intentional and purposeful to take the time
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to make sure it didn't already exist. Now you know,
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I always share that with others who are thinking about
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starting something, is look to what already exists and see
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how you can amplify it. And in this case, it
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actually didn't exist. There was no place where all those
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grieving a loss could come together and find grief and
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trauma resources to do peer based emotional support that was
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facilitated to do casework, assistance that went beyond what the
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federal government could provide only to those eligible. So TAPPS
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has a very broad eligibility all those grieving a life
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that included service to this country. We provide twenty four
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to seven helpline. As you mentioned, because grief is not
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nine to five Monday through Friday. We provide peer based
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emotional support because only those with lived experience can truly
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come beside those newly bereaved. There's a recent crash of
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a B fifty two aircraft with eight on board. I
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had the opportunity to speak with several of the families
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and just the fact that I could come into their
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life and say me too, my husband with eight on
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board military aviation loss. Immediately we had that connection and
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could have that honest, raw, authentic conversation.
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Now, Bonnie, I see I never served, and I see
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through the platform of this radio show, but I've been
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involved in supporting the military of my entire adult life
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going on were almost forty years. And I see my
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role really as a translator. And because I know enough,
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I know the words, I know the lingo, I know,
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I've been exposed to the sacrifice, the huge sacrifice these
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families make. I never miss an opportunity to educate the
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civilian population about the fact that this is a very
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dangerous business, even when someone is not shooting at you.
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And so many of these losses that you mentioned, it
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wasn't you know, someone getting shot down or something like that.
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It was just just stuff. Stuff happens. I'm curious, Bonnie. You,
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as I mentioned, you're the received recipient in the Middle
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of Freedom. I believe it was from President Obama if
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not mistaken, correct, Yes, okay, how do you respond? Maybe
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not a fair question, but Ben gets at least one
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dumb question every showed because it's my darn show. Well,
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how do you respond when people allude to you as
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a two time hero for your military service and then
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for what you're doing with tabs? Is that a lot
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of weight on your shoulders or just comes with the territory?
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Oh gosh, Well, you're very kind man. I you know,
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I'm humble to have served and very proud of that
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service in the Air Guard and the Air Force Reserve.
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I actually went to Baghdad for a year as a
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Department of the Army civilian. But I'm most proud of
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my husband's service. He served in combat and then came
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home and continued to serve. So, you know, the moment
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of the manner of death does not define the years
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of life and service. And I think that's really important
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for your listeners to understand whether the death that moment
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in time was through combat service or accident or illness
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or suicide. We honor a life lived in defense of democracy.
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It's interesting you mentioned that, Bonnie, because I was doing
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my show PRIP that that quote really jumped out at
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me and it was quickly moving beyond the moment and
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manner of death. It's about the life of service in
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your experience. That's that's important, so people don't get stuck
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at that initial point and they can finally open up
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and maybe talk about it. Absolutely, it doesn't it doesn't matter, right,
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I mean, it doesn't matter if it's a suicide or
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a combat death to your.
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Organization, absolutely, you know, And for the families, to be honest,
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it's the same knock on the door, it's the same benefits.
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It's the same folded flag placed on the casket of
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a life that included that service.
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Okay, I tell you, Bonnie, when I come back, I
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want to delve a little bit more into what your
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organization does and maybe touch on some of the programs.
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We don't have enough time to cover them all because
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there's just there's just a ton thank goodness, But where
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can people find more more about TAPS?
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Well?
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Please follow us on social media at TAPS org. That's
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taps RG. Our website is TAPS dot org and our
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helpline again is eight hundred and nine five nine TAPS.
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Super Ladies and gentlemhen. I was looking at some of
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the data on the TAPS website and of the families
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they have helped. This is very intriguing. Thirty seven percent
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of them were active duty, thirty four percent over a
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third we're veterans. But only three percent lost their lives
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to hostile action, thirty seven percent to illness, and twenty
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nine percent to suicide. That I don't do math in public,
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but that's over fifty percent, and that should cause us
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a great deal of concern. So stick around. We're going
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to talk a little more with Bonnie Carrol, the founder
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of CHAPS, about what she and her organization are doing
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to address this problem. Don't forget ladies and gentlemen. These
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stories are so important, and your support for these organizations
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to support others are so important. Please share these messages.
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You can find over six hundred podcasts at American Warrior
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Radio dot com. You can also find us on all
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the major platforms of its, iTunes, Spotify, Pandora, wherever you
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listen to your podcast. You can find American Warrior Radio,
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00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:46.279
and please, I'm asking you to share these important messages
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with your friends and colleague. Stick around, we'll be read back.
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Welcome back to American Warrior Radio. Ladies and gentlemen. We're
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talking with Bonnie Carroll. She is the founder of TAPS,
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the Transition Tragedy Assistance. I see, Bonnie, I told you
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I'd messed it up, the Tragedy Assistance Program for survivors.
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It's just a huge nonprofit out there doing huge things
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for the families of our military members who've lost their
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lives while in service. Bonnie, those numbers I cited that
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it shocks me a little bit because I think you're
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average civilian out there. When we think about death and
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service to our country, they're thinking about a combat death,
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or as we mentioned, you know, maybe sometimes an actual
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training death, or you know, a plane goes down, a
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mechanical failure or something like that. But you I saw
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an interview, and this might be counterintuitive to your average civilian,
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but the numbers of families that you're assisting or a
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parent going up. You said you're seeing three times more
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now than the wartime rate. Explain that to our listeners
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out there.
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Well, you know, twenty years of deployments meant that, you know,
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we were able through incredible medicine, Through medics cormen who
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are highly trained, practically wearing an ICU on their backs
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to get to a wounded service member in combat and
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keep them alive, get them to Lonstul the Walter Reed
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de Bamsei and for many families they have become become caregivers.
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In some cases now for decades and just now, we
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are seeing service members who are sadly dying of injuries.
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We're seeing a tremendous number dying of cancers as a
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result of exposures to toxins, to burn pits. Well deployed,
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we're seeing a very high rate of suicide. Since January
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of twenty twenty, we've had, according to the Department of
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War Statistics, about thirty eight classified as hostile action. In
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the six and a half years, there were two two
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hundred and seventy two tragically who died by suicide on
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active duty. So for TAPS, again, we honor life and service.
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We honor the fact that this individual step forward to
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serve in defense of democracy, and we care for the
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families who have not only stood by them as they
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may have deployed and served, but then stood by them
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as caregivers. And whether that was caregiving to an illness
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and injury or to trauma, we recognize that journey.
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Bonnie. I also spent some time lobbing, and one of
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the lessons I learned early on in my career was
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from a kind of a grouchy old Chermogeny legislator, was
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he would always use the most extreme example permutation of
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something to make his point, talk about how it doesn't
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matter how how they died. So would let's say I've
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got a ninety one hundred and four year old World
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War Two veteran who God rest his soul, he just
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passes in his sleep. But that does as a family,
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I'm still grieving. Are they eligible for your assistance as well?
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They're absolutely eligible. But an interesting thing then, most of
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our the survivors who come to TAPS are grieving a
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lass that included the military community. Chances are, if it
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was someone you know at those advanced age, they've been
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settled into a community where they're surrounded by their church,
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by their you know, their local support systems. So we're
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seeing really those who have died in their you know,
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in their twenties, their thirties, the younger generations.
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Okay, and this is an extreme on the other end,
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but I have to ask, I know a lot of
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dual service couples and families, and have you ever had
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a young person who lost both parents?
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00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:07.480
We sure have, in fact, yeah, quite a well, quite
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a number when that would be counterintuitive. Ashland Haycock Lohman
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is a beautiful example. She lost her father in the
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Army National Guard and then her mother, who was an
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Air Force veteran. Her mother passed when she was in college,
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and Ashland, who had grown up in the Good Grief Camp,
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became an advocate for other kids and actually transformed education
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benefits and now has worked for US for gosh more
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than a decade and is doing great work up on
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Capitol Hill in honor of both her mother and father.
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But she has been a mentor along with her brother,
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to other children in TAPS who have lost both parents.
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So you're exactly right. It's very difficult. You know. We
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have circumstances where surviving children tragically have passed or where
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00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:03.000
it has been and a homicide suicide situation, and no
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one else is there for the family, and we can
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00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:11.599
step in again and recognize not this moment, this horrific
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00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:14.799
moment of the death, but the years of the life
404
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and the love that this family has for that individual
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00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:20.400
who served Bonnie.
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00:24:20.440 --> 00:24:23.960
I'm curious just psychologically, because I've been told that sometimes
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if someone dials you know, that phone number at two
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in the morning, Bonnie is the person answering the phone.
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And you've been doing this for thirty years, you had
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your own trauma. How do you how do you do
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that and not let that trauma just like like layers
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00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:43.480
of paint kind of weigh up on your shoulders and
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weigh up on your shoulders. What's Bonnie's secret if you
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00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:46.759
can share that?
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00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:51.279
Well? But you know, what I hear from our families
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is the pride they have and their loved ones life
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and service. You know, we only grieve because we love
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00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:03.400
of grief is really tied to that love. And in
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00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:06.759
the conversations I've been so privileged to have over the
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00:25:06.839 --> 00:25:09.400
years with families, what I hear is the love that
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00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:12.440
they have for that individual and giving them this safe
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space to share those stories, to tell me not about
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00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:20.839
again the death story, but to recount the life story.
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You know, We're all here in this physical existence for
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00:25:24.319 --> 00:25:27.279
a limited amount of time. But what a blessing, you know,
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00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:31.160
for our spouses that they found that person, that they
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had the time that they did, that we can give
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them now this wonderful community to honor and remember the
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00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:41.359
life lived, you know, for our parents to remember that
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00:25:41.480 --> 00:25:45.319
service member as a child, and just be in this
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00:25:45.480 --> 00:25:48.960
place where they are understood, they are embraced, they are
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00:25:49.000 --> 00:25:53.240
given additional resources and care and a safe landing to
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honor and remember that life.
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00:25:55.160 --> 00:25:57.279
Bonnie. I got in trouble with the wife of a
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00:25:57.319 --> 00:26:00.599
three star general several years ago when I was serving
436
00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:03.920
as his honorary commander, and at the going away barbecue,
437
00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:06.279
I said, look, I'll never be one of you, and
438
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I meant that, and they were very warm, they welcomed
439
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:10.200
you into the tribe, and she just gave this looked
440
00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:12.359
like you know you ungrateful loud, and I felt like
441
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:14.559
I had to explain myself. I'll never wear the uniform,
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00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:18.519
I'll never write a blank check to my fellow citizens,
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00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:21.519
payable up to and including my life. I will never
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00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:25.200
leave my family for special occasions so that other people
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can celebrate with theirs. And it just and I guess
446
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:30.519
that's why I continue to do this show, and I
447
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:32.839
want I want you to share that with our listeners.
448
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:36.839
I'm curious, so three decades so you must now be
449
00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:39.960
And you mentioned that one young lady. How you call
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00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:42.960
I think they're called legacy members. So I guess the
451
00:26:43.000 --> 00:26:46.440
point is I I can relate, I can translate, but
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00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:48.960
I've never been there, done that. Warn the T shirt
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00:26:49.480 --> 00:26:52.720
in your in your case, how important is it having
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00:26:53.799 --> 00:26:57.279
yourself and other volunteers who right off the bat can
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break that that you know? In to the new conversation,
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00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:03.599
I'm saying, look, I've been there, I know what you've
457
00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:06.759
been going through and it does get better or you know,
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00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:11.240
is that that's got to be absolutely critical to your mission?
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00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:15.039
Yeah, oh, Ben, you know. And what really it just
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00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:18.559
touches me so much is for our kids, you know,
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00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:21.240
for little kids that have lost a dad and no
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00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:23.759
one else in their classes had that experience. They don't
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00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:27.160
understand the military. Maybe you know, the family had to
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00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:31.519
move away around a community that knows nothing about military service.
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And we have these kids that come to Good Grief Camp.
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00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:37.720
They're wearing their photo button and they've got their pictures
467
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:40.839
and they come running in and I saw this this
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00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:43.960
little girl she ran up to another child about her height,
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00:27:44.079 --> 00:27:46.079
she was maybe five or six years old, and she
470
00:27:46.160 --> 00:27:48.279
just blurts out to this kid, she goes, is your
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00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:52.480
dad dad? And this other kid is like, uh huh,
472
00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:56.200
me too, And then they immediately just start talking about
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00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:58.559
what their little life has been like. And some of
474
00:27:58.599 --> 00:28:01.160
these kids at school now are bullied because they don't
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00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:03.720
have a dad, which is so cruel, you know. But
476
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:07.440
in the Good Grief Camp, they find a community that
477
00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:11.799
gets it, that understands, that can speak authentically, that can
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00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:14.680
be there for each other to have each other's back.
479
00:28:15.079 --> 00:28:16.680
And we have kids that have grown up in Good
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00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:19.000
Grief Camp now who came in strollers and are now
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00:28:19.119 --> 00:28:23.519
legacy mentors in their twenties and thirties even who are
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there for the next generation.
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00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:29.200
Bonnie, when we come back and wanted you to talk
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00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:31.240
more and maybe just share some of the types of
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00:28:31.279 --> 00:28:34.000
programs that you offer. I just I'm a huge when
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00:28:34.039 --> 00:28:36.359
I was a big Charles schultzkge growing up. So I
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00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:39.240
love the Good Grief Camp. But obviously that's not the
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00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:42.799
same reference, so so great name there, So we come back,
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00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:44.880
I like to chat more about that, ladies, and gentlemen,
490
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:47.799
is your host Ben by Deergarcia. We're talking to Bonnie
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00:28:47.799 --> 00:29:13.200
Carrol from Tapstick Ground. Welcome back to America Warrior Radio.
492
00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:16.079
Lasion and gentlemen, Ben bieler Garcia your host. We're talking
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00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:19.160
with Bonnie Carroll, the founder of TAPS. If you're grieving
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00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:21.240
the loss of a fallen service member, if you know
495
00:29:21.319 --> 00:29:23.839
someone who could use support, called TAPS is twenty four
496
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:27.279
our National Military Survivor Hotline. That number is one eight
497
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:30.559
hundred nine five nine TAPS. That's one eight hundred nine
498
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:35.559
nine eight two seven seven Bonnie. As I mentioned, we
499
00:29:35.599 --> 00:29:37.920
don't have time to cover everything you do, but I
500
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:40.640
want to go back to something I mentioned in the
501
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:43.279
introduction because I don't want people to get the wrong impression.
502
00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:49.039
TAPS is not financially supported and it's not endorsed by
503
00:29:49.079 --> 00:29:53.799
the Department of War, but you do have an exceptional relationship.
504
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:58.039
We do. Ever, since you know the founding of the organization,
505
00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:02.440
the military recognize that we provide services and resources that
506
00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:05.759
the federal government can't. There are things that we can
507
00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:10.839
do with our emergency financial assistance immediately for a family,
508
00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:14.839
and they lean on that and recognize that. So it's
509
00:30:14.839 --> 00:30:19.759
been a beautiful relationship. Being a nonprofit organization of veterans
510
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:25.480
and military service organization allows us that flexibility and.
511
00:30:25.559 --> 00:30:29.440
If I'm not mistaken, these all these services are completely
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00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:31.680
free of charge to the families.
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00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:35.960
Correct, absolutely, And we're so grateful to have wonderful partners
514
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:40.640
like USAA, Prudential, New York Life, even the NFL has
515
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:43.519
become a very big partner of ours over the years
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00:30:43.559 --> 00:30:45.480
that allow us to do the work we do and
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00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:48.319
support all those grieving a loss.
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00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:50.920
Now there are again if folks go to your website
519
00:30:50.920 --> 00:30:53.160
they can learn more. But there's just a ton of
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00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:55.319
programs you touched on. The Good Grief Camp, which I
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00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:59.519
believe is held on Memorial Day weekend. Correct, that's our.
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00:30:59.440 --> 00:31:03.240
Biggest Actually over a Memorial Day, we do our national
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00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:06.480
gathering for the families, and we have thousands of family
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00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:10.799
members who come together in Arlington, Virginia for five days
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00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:16.279
of programming, of sharing groups, of memorial events. But we
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00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:19.519
do these all throughout the year. Last year we did
527
00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:24.000
more than thirteen hundred events all across the country. It's
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00:31:24.000 --> 00:31:27.359
everything from our family camps to regional seminars what we
529
00:31:27.440 --> 00:31:33.400
call taps togethers, care groups, and local communities, women's empowerment programs.
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00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.240
We do a big partnership with professional sports, so just
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lots of opportunities.
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00:31:39.559 --> 00:31:41.559
I found it really interesting too that you do have
533
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:45.880
dedicated programs to you know, both men and women, and
534
00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:49.000
then a program specifically dedicated to those family members who
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00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:53.359
lost a loved one to suicide. So you're really drilling
536
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.799
down and I think that reinforces the hey, I've been there,
537
00:31:56.880 --> 00:31:59.319
done that, you know, we can talk sort of element
538
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:02.160
which is just so important to your success.
539
00:32:03.359 --> 00:32:07.400
Absolutely, and know we have programs that recognize those who
540
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.759
have been caregivers and the unique experience that they have
541
00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:13.759
now to redefine who they are going to be after
542
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:18.720
the loss. We have coming up our national gathering of
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00:32:18.839 --> 00:32:22.640
suicide loss survivors and now we have over thirty thousand
544
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.440
family members who have lost a love one to suicide
545
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.839
in the military and veteran community. So that is a
546
00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:32.680
complicated grief journey. And coming together with some of the
547
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:37.039
best experts in America suicideologists who can help guide our
548
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:42.440
families through this difficult grief journey along with their peers,
549
00:32:42.759 --> 00:32:44.319
is incredibly therapeutic.
550
00:32:45.920 --> 00:32:48.720
I tell you what, something that almost made me weep.
551
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:53.880
Bonnie when I was exploring your website was the fact
552
00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:58.440
that TAPS is now worldwide and the State Department apparently
553
00:32:58.480 --> 00:33:02.880
approached you about doing some work in Ukraine. And you know,
554
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:05.359
I never thought of it this way, but in seeing
555
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:11.559
that loss in war is an international language, right, I mean,
556
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:16.160
grief is an international emotion. And there was even a quote,
557
00:33:16.160 --> 00:33:18.160
I think it was from a Fox News piece was
558
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:21.440
talking about how some of these Ukrainian widows are literally
559
00:33:21.480 --> 00:33:23.599
working on the front lines and saying, look, what have
560
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:26.440
we got left to lose? We've lost our loved ones,
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00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:30.079
what's left? So we're going to help others. Incredibly touching
562
00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:31.079
and inspirational.
563
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:35.400
Well back, we started the international work, you know, twenty
564
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:39.599
years ago, and I spent a year in Baghdad, Iraq
565
00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:43.480
on the reconstruction, but got to meet so many of
566
00:33:43.480 --> 00:33:46.319
the women who had lost their loved ones in the
567
00:33:46.359 --> 00:33:50.240
Iraqi army and found that, you know, they're grieving just
568
00:33:50.319 --> 00:33:53.839
like our family. So we started bringing together Iraqi war
569
00:33:53.880 --> 00:33:57.400
widows and mothers with American war widows and mothers, and
570
00:33:57.440 --> 00:34:00.599
that grew from there. We now, you know, as you said,
571
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:04.480
have been in Ukraine since the twenty fourteen war. We
572
00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:08.239
have a beautiful headquarters in eastern Ukraine, right on the
573
00:34:08.280 --> 00:34:13.320
front lines with incredible programs for families and children who
574
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:17.880
are grieving loss to bring stabilization and comfort and resources.
575
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:22.079
Bonnie, were unfortunately running out of time, but I'm sure
576
00:34:22.119 --> 00:34:24.360
you didn't. You knew you wouldn't have to sell me
577
00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:27.960
on this concept. But what can our listeners do to
578
00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:33.480
support you in TAPS? Are there obviously financial contributions and
579
00:34:33.519 --> 00:34:36.119
you don't to volunteer for your organization. You don't necessarily
580
00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:38.280
have to be someone who's experienced loss, correct, I mean,
581
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:39.679
you've got plenty of roles to fill.
582
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:44.519
We do, absolutely, We love volunteers, We appreciate support. Please
583
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:48.239
visit TAPS dot org, you know to learn more and
584
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:50.920
thank you Ben for the opportunity to share our mission
585
00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:51.679
with your listeners.
586
00:34:52.159 --> 00:34:54.400
Well we're not quite done yet, Bonnie. So one thing
587
00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:56.280
other thing you do, which is near and dear to
588
00:34:56.360 --> 00:34:59.519
what I do in my day job is advocacy. What
589
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:03.679
going to Capitol Hill or wherever it might be and
590
00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:07.239
advocating for these families in these programs? Are there? What
591
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:10.079
issues do you need help with now? Are there any
592
00:35:10.159 --> 00:35:11.039
that you could cite?
593
00:35:11.840 --> 00:35:15.199
Absolutely? You know we have our Advocacy Week coming out.
594
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:17.400
We have one hundred and fifty surviving family members who
595
00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:21.239
will be in Washington visiting every office on Capitol Hill
596
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:25.480
right now. Our number one is the Love Lives On Act,
597
00:35:25.960 --> 00:35:30.719
and that is, you know, removing this stipulation that if
598
00:35:30.840 --> 00:35:34.119
a widow remarries before the age of fifty five, she
599
00:35:34.239 --> 00:35:39.280
and her children lose all benefits, and that is it's archaic.
600
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:41.599
We're the only country in the world that does that,
601
00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:45.519
and it's time to change. So that's our number one
602
00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:47.840
issue and we're very close to getting that across the
603
00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:49.480
finish line.
604
00:35:49.719 --> 00:35:52.119
I'm flabbergasted that that's even a thing.
605
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:58.000
Thank you, as it should not be, and hopefully that
606
00:35:58.920 --> 00:36:01.760
will be a fixed this year. But we are family.
607
00:36:01.800 --> 00:36:05.400
We've even had children talking about how important it is
608
00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:07.960
to them, you know, to have the opportunity to have
609
00:36:08.039 --> 00:36:12.800
a two parent household, and you know, so I really
610
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:14.039
appreciate that support.
611
00:36:15.199 --> 00:36:17.960
Well, I'll tell you what I will definitely I will
612
00:36:17.960 --> 00:36:20.880
definitely chat with my congressmen and folks that I'm close
613
00:36:20.920 --> 00:36:22.800
with about that. I think the nice thing for you
614
00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:25.360
is you're not you don't have to appear before appropriations.
615
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:28.119
You're not asking for money, right you know, and.
616
00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:31.559
That gives us tremendous flexibility to do what we need
617
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:36.159
to do and support families with whatever needs they have. Absolutely, Bonnie.
618
00:36:36.519 --> 00:36:38.280
Just the last question. I don't know if you feel
619
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:42.320
comfortable answering this or not, but my concern is a
620
00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:45.280
civilian who's been engaged in supporting our military families and
621
00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:50.159
our first responder families as well for decades now. The
622
00:36:50.199 --> 00:36:56.960
manner with which we withdrew from Afghanistan I found extremely disconcerting,
623
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:01.159
and in fact I know of a tenant colonel and
624
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:04.119
who resigned his commission over it. He said, after I
625
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:07.960
can no longer wear this uniform? Is that? And I
626
00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:11.480
guess my concern is, given all the blood and the
627
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:16.360
treasure expended there in that country for someone who had
628
00:37:16.440 --> 00:37:21.800
thirteen deployments and came back missing an appendage, is that
629
00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:24.800
do you see that? Is that driving an increase in
630
00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:27.960
suicide or challenges? Or would you rather not speak to that?
631
00:37:28.639 --> 00:37:33.280
Oh, there are so many factors, so much trauma. Immediately
632
00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:37.599
after the fall of Afghanistan, immediately TAPS pulled together a
633
00:37:37.760 --> 00:37:40.760
panel including the defense at the Shave from Afghanistan, the
634
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:46.079
now former ambassador, our families who had lost loved ones
635
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:50.639
and also trauma specialists to talk about this, to really
636
00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:52.840
put it into a context that we could understand and
637
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:56.679
move forward from. We can't control the politics, we can't
638
00:37:56.719 --> 00:38:00.360
control military operations, but what we can do is honor
639
00:38:00.599 --> 00:38:06.119
lives lived in service to this country. And you know,
640
00:38:06.280 --> 00:38:10.920
as a defense at Lache from Afghanistan, so beautifully Puddity.
641
00:38:11.159 --> 00:38:12.960
You know, he appeared in uniform and he said, I
642
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.639
wear the uniform of a country that no longer exists,
643
00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:18.920
as it had an army that no longer stands, he said,
644
00:38:19.320 --> 00:38:22.480
But I honor and will always treasure the service of
645
00:38:22.559 --> 00:38:26.719
every American who came to my land to defend our people.
646
00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:33.559
And we raised a generation of Afghan citizens, of girls especially,
647
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:37.199
who will never forget the foundation we gave them. We
648
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:41.239
don't know what the future holds, but we know that
649
00:38:42.079 --> 00:38:42.679
we served.
650
00:38:43.639 --> 00:38:46.480
Bonnie. That's absolutely beautiful. Thank you, Thank you for sharing that.
651
00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:48.559
Ladies and gentlemen. If you'd like to learn more of
652
00:38:48.639 --> 00:38:52.960
visit TAPS dot org. TAPS dot org, and don't forget
653
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:56.559
their national twenty four our Military Survivor Hotline, which is
654
00:38:56.599 --> 00:38:59.559
eight hundred nine five nine TAPS that spelled out that
655
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:02.840
the number there for taps US eight to seven seven. Bonnie,
656
00:39:02.920 --> 00:39:04.679
thank you so much for what you're doing and what
657
00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:06.920
you have done, and what you continue to do for
658
00:39:06.960 --> 00:39:10.679
our military families and you know, starting it maybe one
659
00:39:10.679 --> 00:39:13.000
of the worst days of their life and helping them heal,
660
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:17.360
helping them post traumatic growth, I guess is the phrase
661
00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:18.039
I'm looking.
662
00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:20.719
For, Absolutely, Ben, and thank you for allowing me to
663
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.519
share our mission with your listeners. So grateful to you.
664
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:27.239
Wonderful Until next time, ladies and gentlemen, all policies and
665
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:29.199
procedures or to remain in place. Take care.
666
00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:40.719
You've been listening to American Warrior Radio. Archived episodes may
667
00:39:40.719 --> 00:39:50.239
be found at americanwarriorradio dot com or your favorite podcast platform.
