WEBVTT
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Hello, this is Eleanor.
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Hello, this is Phil.
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And you're listening to a dad.
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And his daughter figuring out ADHD out loud.
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Hello.
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Hello.
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Hello everyone.
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Hello, everyone.
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Uh welcome to uh little podcast.
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Yeah, we're still here.
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We're still going, yeah, that's good.
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Well, over 20 episodes, which is lovely.
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But that was a couple of episodes ago, I think.
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Yeah, I would say so.
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Uh Kathy has written in to us.
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Hi, Kathy.
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Hi, Kathy.
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Your support and your kind words.
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Yes.
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Um but she was asking about any advice for um supporting ADS in adolescence.
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Right.
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Um Okay.
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And Yeah.
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I mean adolescence on its own is um tricky.
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Well, yeah, but that's I think our interest, our culprit.
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Right.
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Well, we I know from Lady Yves Leader that adolescence is tough.
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Um but and you would have known as a parent as well.
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Yeah, but you are ADHD.
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Oh, okay.
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And I know ADHD as an adolescent.
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So I don't know what the differences are.
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So actually so what yeah.
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We have no normal No, so all we have to do, we're gonna chat about it, we're gonna chat about ADHD and adolescence.
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We're trying to ravel and unravel what it is to be a parent and an adolescent and ADHD.
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Yeah, what it is to be a prospective parent of a child with ADHD autism.
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Yeah.
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Um what it is to be of myself, I mean, without any parental input, myself as an as an adolescent.
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There's a whole lot to unravel and um pick, and but we do need to make it aware that this is just us having a chat about it.
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As usual.
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We all know what we know nothing.
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Well no, we do, but not enough to be like not experts.
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This is what you should be doing.
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Don't we speak it as gospel?
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No, no, we can't.
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Well, I could give you the gospel, but not no, no, it's not no.
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Yes.
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Just you know, you know what we mean.
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We're not doctors, and this is unofficial advice.
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It's just us explore as always what it is to be a dad and a daughter living with late diagnosed and reflecting back.
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So what would have supported us?
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I think that's probably a good way in.
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What would have supported us as teenagers?
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I think it may be a way of looking at that, is what where did we feel the lack of support, which I seek to hear from you.
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Well, I mean that could go two ways.
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I obviously um I've gone through other three sounds.
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You've obviously gone through.
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That's just my time from skip that whole life about me.
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But obviously, when I was going through that, I didn't know I had ADHD.
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Obviously, we mean I had my um which That was very little information about that.
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Yeah, so that made schooling difficult because there wasn't a lot of information.
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So none of the teachers theoretically could be supportive in Well, that's the interesting thing, is that what I needed because teachers don't have support because Yeah.
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Even so obviously I can't say that I didn't have any support in school, even though that is true, but the teacher didn't have the um tools or the I think they had psych tried, uh the educational psychologists tried, but they didn't know what they were dealing with.
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Yeah.
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They didn't know what And that's when it becomes a difficult thing.
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That's why I can't really say that they weren't supportive because they just didn't know how to absolutely there was support, but they didn't know what and I mean you you didn't uh have an ADHD diagnosis as an adolescent.
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Right.
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And the the school w wouldn't have been prepared for such so much in a bit, but not not generalist teachers.
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I definitely didn't have an ADHD diagnosis as an adolescent, so just scrabble through.
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Yeah, and I think that's that that's where now is different for those with uh that are going through adolescence that may have ADHD because so where where were the big gaps, let's say?
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That's for you, isn't it as a as those adolescent years?
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Where did you feel that somehow Well it was weird because I didn't it was uh it's uh well didn't fit in anywhere.
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So I didn't fit into the normal crowd of adolescents because I didn't feel like that was where I fitted in.
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But then I also didn't fit in with anybody that was in like the learning support development, like uh because again, I feel that that was me.
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So it was like I was almost making my own bubble that just contained me in it, because everyone fitted into a box and I didn't.
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So reflecting on that as a parent, so I'm gonna jump straight to parenting.
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How would that affect you as a parent of somebody with ADX the autism?
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Given your own experience?
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It is difficult.
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What would you do?
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I mean this is not a theoretical question.
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This is a checking question.
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How are you gonna do it?
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How are you gonna be there for for the child?
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Yeah, given that we'll have the same experience.
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I mean I will.
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I mean I will go through it um at some point.
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I assume you all go, sit down and do your work.
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No, no, no, I won't I won't do that because that doesn't work.
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Um and I'm not But why doesn't that work?
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Because his stuff doesn't Why doesn't it work for you?
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Why doesn't it work for me?
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Because it's been told off.
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It's just so we're back to reject rejecting the sensitivity, we're back to dysphoria, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So planning stuff, you don't be behave like that, then you your homework is done literally at the last minute, because you literally can't do it any earlier.
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Yeah.
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Um so being told to you're not playing on the play station anymore.
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Um there's two there's two weeks before you go back to school, so I want to see all my homework done by the end of the week.
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So no playing with the football, no playing with the play stage, stop it, get some work done.
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And when he messes about and plays up, you'll have to shout at him.
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Not really.
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Well, if I'm off himself.
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So that you know, I won't won't be doing that, but I'd have to be a bit firmer and try and make him and come almost to him and use what I know works with him and going, okay, you want to do this, we can do that.
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But once you've done that, we need to go and do this.
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Did you find within yourself?
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I I I certainly did a sense of I gave the impression, I'm sure, to everybody around you, to me, that I didn't want to do any work.
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I gave the impression of that because nobody asked what was going on inside.
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In in my own head, I I knew the work needed to be done.
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And I was uh happy to do the work because it needed to be done to do the work because I wanted to learn stuff where but the the outward impression there was one of laziness, one of not bothering, one of not caring about the work, and I cared deeply about the work in many ways.
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Yeah, and I mean I did have that a bit of like from school going, well, she hasn't applied herself.
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And I'm like but but I have.
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I've I've done what I felt I could get done, but it wasn't always to their standard, and that was the other thing that I struggled with because teachers have their own standard of what they expect from certain ages in certain years, so and that was when it becomes a but that's not me.
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Like I know I'm not there, so you need to bring your standards slightly down to to then realise actually I've overachieved here.
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Yeah.
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Rather than kind of saying, but that's not good enough because Miss So and so over here has done three three thousand, you know, and so that sounds like an acceptance of who you genuinely are, rather than um uh a package rather than a yeah and it you know it it came about that my mass my maths was obviously the worst.
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We won't go into how bad people, but it was terrible.
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And I ended up with a bit of support within my maths.
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Great.
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Apart from he wanted to pull out more from me.
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Which is his job, which is a teacher.
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He wasn't a teacher though, he was supporting the support teacher, so he was just supposed to be there to support through.
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Yeah, that's interesting about support teacher turns into a teacher.
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Yeah.
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Whereas instead of supporting you and trying to work out who you are and what the best models are for you to be able to get on with your work, yeah.
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Actually reverting to how am I gonna make this child do the work that needs to be done.
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So with his support, we got the work that was done, and I was very pleased that I've I've done these equations and whatnot, and I was like, oh I've actually done something.
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You know, my but you can do nothing that you can get that smaller, or you can go well, this a different way.
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And I'm now going.
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Well, I've done it.
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But I've done it.
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I don't I struggled getting to this point.
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I don't need you trying to guide me down a path so that now my brain is gone.
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You have lost me.
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Yes.
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And that was when it became less supportive from a support literature.
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Um yeah, so I'm intrigued by this.
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Um as a as a parent and as somebody who's trying to support someone with ADHD.
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Um how how we create an environment that lets them be seen.
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Because I think that's what's happening when you get a support teacher that really isn't supporting you, but it's just trying to get the work done.
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Yeah.
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You feel you've not seen me.
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Yeah.
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I've done this work and you've not acknowledged me in that.
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I felt that very much as a as a as a teenager, adolescent, uh, both from parents and from school, that I I was an irrelevance at what my job was was to learn to get through school, to be a good boy, um, which I was generally.
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But even even when I behaved well, even when I achieved reasonably well, not brilliantly by any means, but no reasonably well.
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All along I I felt nobody saw nobody from the establishment and nobody from the parent anybody saw me.
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Yeah, and only I can see that being who my grandma was, that she would just be like, you're you're being silly, stop it.
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And actually you're not being silly, you're just generally being so the advice the only advice and I can I can cough.
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Yeah, and I don't know how how it's achieved is how do you parent somebody so that they both are allowed to be who they are, but at the same time you do want them to learn, you do want them to encourage them, and you do want them to be too successful without even knowing it.
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But it's no, it it it's like I never found who I was at school because I didn't fit in to any of the schooling categories to actually be achieving anything great.
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But at no point did I ever feel like there was any pressure from you or mum in the well, you can do better than like there was no okay.
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So that was in that you and my mum could see that actually what I did with in school or out of school was achieved, like that was my achievement.
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I did well without Yeah, I mean I I would I this is it fascinating for me because I don't know whether anything as as usual with our podcast, whether this had anything to do with ADHD, I don't know.
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All all we can say is these are our experiences both having ADHD.
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Yeah.
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And I I think as a as a parent, what I we um is but don't get me wrong, you were also strict, but I mean it was not a good thing.
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Yeah, strictness.
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Um but it's this sense of we were at our proudest at school whenever a teacher said, Oh, she's trying her best.
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She's rubbish.
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She's trying her best.
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And there's no reward for that.
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Exactly.
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There was no this is the problem.
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Because actually, being a nice kid in the classroom and being friendly and kind and trying your best is the point of life.
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Yeah.
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And like that was what I was saying.
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Well, going back, there is there is awards for those kids that have got learned difficulty and it's severe that have like so they get their own kind of awards.
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Yeah.
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But I wasn't in that like category.
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Yeah.
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And then there's kids that are Genevain A style like GSSEs because they're amazing at everything.
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So they get all that kind of awards, and then there was me.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I might not okay.
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I felt I was on my own.
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I'm not gonna say that probably there was probably back to that thing we've talked about in other podcasts.
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Even though you weren't on your own and you had friends around you in the little groups or whatever, you would feel still isolated even from the small group who but you weren't on your own.
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Yeah.
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Um so it's not a physical on my own, it's a mental on my own.
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So if anything, I would say to a parent of ADHD uh child is no, uh and I I don't know if this crosses all AD ADHD types, no and acknowledge that they feel on their own.
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Yeah.
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That they however many friends you might see them playing with, however much fun they might be having, however many connections they make, there's a part of them that feels that they're on their own, that they're weird, that they're not being seen, that they're not acknowledged for who they genuinely are, because there's nothing in the system, even in the system of friendship groups, that that enables that to be celebrated.
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Yeah, I see it with so celebrate it's about find some way of celebrating it.
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Um and that's what I think I said on the comment to um Cathy.
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To Cathy.
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That's it.
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Sorry.
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Sorry, Cathy.
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Ideal speaking.
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Um to Cathy was be engaged, like engage with them.
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So engage with your adolescent, be present with them and find the fun.
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Which is interesting, you reflect on that as your idea your adolescent experience.
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Again, knowledge of new yeah, I'd ADHD.
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But I think it backs through my my experience of not knowing I had AXT with this is unraveled, with your grandma.
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I remember distinctly at uh uh was it at a college uni, probably just after uni on my my own flat.
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Uh that I I don't know why I'd written it or when I'd written it, but I put it on my wall.
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It was something I'd handwritten myself and drawn like I did all around it, and it said, it said, I'm not I remember it clearly, it said, home is where they'd understand you.
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Oh which is ah, but at the same time I also remember my mum and dad visiting and dad, because he was the most perceptive of my parents, right, seeing it, and I think he thought I couldn't see or didn't notice, but he turned to you, grandma, and said, Look at this.
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Oh no.
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So I don't know what's going on in their conversation.
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No, but it's that feeling of home is where they understand you, and clearly it came from a part of me that felt I'm at home in my own flat because I understand me.
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I didn't but certainly homely.
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I left home at 18, and apart from going back for food and holidays, yeah, I didn't really ever go back home.
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But as a parent, I think I picked up on that deep-rooted sense of whatever happens, I want you to feel that you've been seen.
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Yeah, you can't plumb the depths of it.
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Yeah.
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And there was never that, and we never, you know, we've always again it must be the AHD thing, but our bond has always been very strong.
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Like we've always managed to connect, we've always managed to understand one another, and therefore my adolescent growing up was never uh a you know a struggle because you never made it feel like a struggle.
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Yeah, well it was at times, but not again as a youth leader I I seen.
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That helps.
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I was completely blown away uh once and uh one And then that's the other thing, isn't it?
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Is like my growing up, even from baby baby, was never normal.
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Because you always lead a youth group.
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I had teenagers and adults parent not parenting me, but they were part of my life, they were part of my growing up.
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So it wasn't like I just had a mum and a dad, it was like yeah, we're gonna chuck you in the deep end.
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Probably includes Kathy, actually.
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Yeah, that's what I was baby baby, because Kathy has got I'm sure Kathy's helped me.
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As a baby.
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As a baby baby.
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Um but there's loads of them out there.
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There's there's there's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And but that's where I felt like almost something.
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But that's interesting because even in that group, you can as a as a child ADHD growing up.
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I think that's that and I think that is interesting.
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I don't know why, that as a child with ADHD, you would behave in such ways, not you personally, but any child with ADHD, which is a bit sort of a bit weird, which doesn't go down well in the classroom.
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No.
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Doesn't go well down in a home that wants to run smoothly and sharply.
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Yeah.
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:23.519
But it's a sort of behaviour that in the youth group everyone goes, yeah.
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:30.000
Let's let's see if we can bounce somewhere around like Eleanor.
00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:30.640
Yeah.
00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:32.640
Well, I don't think you've ever gone.
00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:34.240
No, I just hope they don't have it.
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:47.920
But see see the difference of a of a group of adolescents and they're not being well, they're not being off on one or problems, whatever, and they're genuinely enjoying themselves, they're so accepting.
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:48.960
Oh, yeah.
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:56.079
It's it's the biggest line in society that somehow and it uh maybe social media's messed it all up.
00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:56.559
I don't know.
00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:05.680
My experience of young people when they work together and are allowed to be themselves are so can be so warm and accepting.
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:09.200
So this is gonna just a left field here.
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:09.680
Okay.
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:15.440
But going to this whole, like, you know, use it can be really friendly.
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:16.079
Yeah.
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:19.920
That is very true, because I see it in my job.
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:22.480
Uh uh where I work in a shop.
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:24.000
At my work in a shop.
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:38.000
And it's the way I see this is that we have had more elderly shoplifters that will steal newspapers and drink and magazines than any teenager.
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:39.200
Yeah, absolutely.
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:39.599
Yeah.
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:56.079
Which I'm still kind of really from because society wants you to think that it's teenagers things the rebels and the the pains in the backsides and and actually it's it's not always the pain.
00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:58.160
But and that's interesting, is it?
00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:05.599
Because that I think that feeds into There comes a point as you grow up the the you sort of want the world to play by a set of rules that you understand.
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:06.079
Yeah.
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:10.880
And because teenagers haven't learned the rules yet, they don't necessarily play by those rules.
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:14.480
Though there's a certain goodness within them that allows them.
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:20.160
Generally, the teenagers I know that are that are badly behaved, if that's even the right phrase.
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:22.559
Or or or have issues, have problems.
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:24.480
They're being caused by adults.
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:25.359
Yeah.
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:29.599
Um and they don't it might just be because they're not being seen.
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:30.880
Again, being seen.
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:37.519
So being from to your sign that, you know, homes where you feel that's where they understand you.
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:38.480
Or understand.
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:43.519
Is they're gonna kick off and they're gonna Yeah, and you have to understand that.
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:54.079
If if they're not being seen at home, because they're gonna go off and do something that's big and showy to get the attention.
00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:54.640
Yeah.
00:22:54.799 --> 00:23:24.559
I we can't unravel teenage uh because that's psychology and uh maybe that's that's off left field a bit, but I I I do think there's something in this we've said it time and time again already on this podcast about being seen and being supported i in who you are and I think what you have to celebrate the difference, isn't it?
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:36.799
So as a parent who is parenting anybody with ADHD, because it's not always just adolescence, although that is what Kathy But just let them know it's okay.
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:38.000
It's okay to be you.
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:42.880
It's if you want to go and do what you're that's fine.
00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:47.920
However you want to be, if you want to do that, do that.
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.200
It's not the end of the world.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:57.519
And I have to remind my own child that that's the case sometimes that it's okay.
00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:02.880
Okay, so you didn't do what everyone else did, but did you do what you could do?
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:07.279
So it's and it's and it in general will say yeah, it will do that.
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:08.720
Okay.
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:18.799
And if it becomes an issue, I will go and do the supportive permit of going to the school, speaking to the school, getting the school to understand.
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:29.200
But not out of school, I would go back to this sense of not being seen, of actually you allowing a child to do weird stuff.
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:29.920
Yeah.
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:34.640
Absolutely.
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:40.880
So I had, as you've pointed out, Philip is being silly.
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:42.400
Stop being silly, stop shopping.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:47.279
Instead of uh celebrating how creative that silliness was.
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:47.839
Yeah.
00:24:48.079 --> 00:25:05.279
Instead of I they'll be a little there, but generally not because I always especially it was all around Christmas, that I always remember like your energetic, you know, your energy levels would rise, and me being a kid, I was thinking, oh, he just wants me to be um enjoy Christmas.
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:11.519
He's just doing it for me as as a small child that I like, you know, all that and actually write.
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:13.599
Oh, but no.
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:16.240
It's kind of like oh no, he wasn't he's not.
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:17.759
Oh, wasn't it for you?
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:18.240
No.
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:22.799
Oh, okay.
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:25.920
So And that's because I'm not and that and that's again.
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:28.640
Yeah, weird stuff.
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:29.279
Yeah.
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.839
But I've never gone, oh that's stop it.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:36.079
Like I've I've never gone, oh your embarrassed set.
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:39.920
No, well you might have to, but no, never, like never.
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:48.079
I mean, I've you know, even though I may not have fitted in to any box, there's always one part of me that will remain.
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:49.759
But that's always the best thing, sorry.
00:25:50.640 --> 00:26:05.759
Is that there was a child that was walking to school with me one day, and I just so happened to be talking about you and what you were doing within schools, and they stopped and said, It's your dad, is he big dear?
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:07.920
I said, Yeah, so that's my dad.
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:10.799
No way, he's so cool.
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:16.000
And that for me was like was like that's my dad.
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:21.519
Like that was just uh, you know, uh, okay, my dad is actually quite cool.
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:41.680
You are but to get you you just said something about that you didn't fit into any box, and I I think this is what's really interesting about the an ADHD parent parenting an ADHD child is the best thing about you is you didn't fit in any box.
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:42.480
Yes.
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:55.200
And the hardest thing, I think I don't know, because I'm not putting me in a box, then it's putting you in a box is if you uh you chose to be in a box.
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:00.960
Well I all I can do is imagine the sort of parent who needs you in a box.
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:01.759
Yeah.
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:05.599
And that that to me is is weird.
00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:09.039
It's that I want my child to be like this.
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:10.000
No.
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:12.559
But it's that controlling.
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:18.000
It's that the parent controls what the child should be.
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:22.160
Yeah, and I think and also society's changed a lot.
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:25.519
So when we were growing up, we just got through it.
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:32.799
We just had to face you know that that feeling of not being part of anything.
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:37.519
Where now it's the flip side of, oh, you're just doing that because you want that label.
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:38.799
That's interesting.
00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:41.119
We didn't learn how to see it's labels, but no.
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:43.279
Well, there were labels, but they're all really cruel.
00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:46.240
That was that was really cruel.
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:48.799
Um but that's what we have.
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:50.319
So now that's interesting, isn't it?
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:53.039
It's now parents ridiculed almost.
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:57.279
You're ADHD, you're a diverse in this way or that way.
00:27:57.599 --> 00:27:57.920
Oh, yeah.
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:07.359
Buddhist there who doesn't fully understand a child with autism or a child with ADHD or even both, so a UDHD.
00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:18.240
And parents telling no, well, you're just doing it because if your child is labelled as one of these, you get this and this and this, and it's like, hang on a minute, right?
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:20.640
I'm not doing it for that.
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:33.759
I'm doing it because my child clearly needs some support, and the only way that that support is gonna get to him in the right kind of way is if I go through all these hoops.
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:39.759
And it isn't just uh, well, let's go to one meeting and here's your paper.
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:40.240
No.
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:43.440
It's uh right, we're gonna get you to jump through this hoop.
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:58.160
Right now you've done that, we're gonna get you to jump through and it's it's a long process, and anybody who's gone through it will know that it's draining just to get the support for the person you care most about.
00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:04.559
See, and that's that's the complexity of getting the system to provide support.
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:08.720
So therefore, as a parent, you're supporting your ADHD.
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:10.880
Uh you're a bad child.
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:11.680
Yeah.
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:23.359
I I've come at it from this hands-on parental uh viewpoint, and and almost want to uh t turn the thing on its head.
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:50.000
I wouldn't I wouldn't never say um that ADHD isn't a thing, but you almost have to treat a person because if it if you say I'm gonna treat this person specially because they have ADHD and I have to it's the ADHD is the thing, yeah, then what you're already you're not seeing them, you're seeing their neurodivision.
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:59.920
Yes, and that is the other side of it, is actually and just celebrate them for all their weirdness, their lunacy, the stressing they say, and not all the good stuff either.
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:17.200
And this is the thing that I think is for me really important, though when they're in a darkened room with the lights off, cover over their heads, when they just want the absolute silence, when they want the whole world to go away, just to have somebody come to you and say, It's alright, mate.
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:17.680
Yeah.
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:18.720
It's all right.
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:21.519
Yeah.
00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:22.720
That's not a problem.
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:30.880
Because internally, and we went we all we not all, because move not all by, but us generally we'll learn that we do have those days.
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:31.359
Yeah.
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:37.359
And actually we we both needed someone at some point to kind of go, it's okay.
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:38.000
Yeah.
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:39.359
I did once.
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:44.720
Sorry, talk to me about my mum like this because she's not the one with us, but I didn't what what?
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:51.440
Just once, I remember mum opening the door and going, Are you okay?
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:56.640
And obviously as a teenager, adolescent, my response was, yeah, I'm alright.
00:30:57.200 --> 00:30:58.240
And I wasn't alright.
00:30:58.480 --> 00:30:58.640
No.
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:01.119
And I hadn't been alright for many years.
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:06.559
But only once had she opened the door to say, are you okay?
00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:07.759
Wow.
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:09.440
And I needed that every week.
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:10.160
Yeah.
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:11.359
For many years.
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:14.559
Just someone to say, not even are you okay?
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:18.079
Actually, what I needed was someone to say, you're okay.
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:19.680
In a in a different tone.
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:24.480
Crying your eyes out, this is being flawed, but you're okay, because that's lovely.
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:25.119
Yeah.
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:26.480
I know it hurts.
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:28.480
But that's fine.
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:29.440
Yeah.
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:31.359
It's it's weird.
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:37.519
Um that's weird thing, holding them in their brokenness, if that's if that's the right term.
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:47.200
Because ADHC, when it clashes against a world that doesn't they don't fit in, can feel like a a brokenness.
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:48.400
They're not the broken ones.
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:48.720
Yes.
00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:51.440
The world around them is more broken than they are.
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:55.200
And I get we could talk about this for a very long time.
00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:56.559
That's what we've got a podcast.
00:31:56.720 --> 00:31:56.960
I know.
00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:57.920
We have run out of common.
00:31:58.240 --> 00:32:01.680
Um but it is a general thing.
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:05.680
Well, now it's just you it's the kids' thing.
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:08.799
It's the every child is different.
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:14.559
But the problem we've got is the system is built for one for a child.
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:14.880
Yeah.
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:15.519
A ideal.
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:19.200
So I don't know which child, but it must have been the very first child you had it with.
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:20.000
The ideal.
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:30.799
The whole system is built on this is how we believe a child with these points, and that's how we're gonna judge you.
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:31.599
Yeah.
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:35.519
And you know, regardless of how they will be, yeah.
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:37.039
So Yeah.
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:38.559
We need to we need to finish.
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:40.000
Can I just have one word to Mr.
00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:42.880
Ham Ying, my maths teacher?
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:43.839
Okay.
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:47.039
I was talking about other people who noticed.
00:32:47.279 --> 00:33:00.240
There was one maths lesson in the 6-4 where I don't know how I got to the state, but I ended up just filling the whole page when they curled over it and I was just writing numbers, numbers, numbers.
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:01.440
Written out by hand.
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:02.480
Numbers, numbers, numbers.
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:03.680
Want the word numbers?
00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:04.000
Words.
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:04.319
Okay.
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:08.720
Numbers, numbers, more numbers, more numbers, numbers, numbers, long more numbers.
00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:10.720
I spent the whole lesson doing that.
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.359
And then as teachers did it, he walked around and um looked at your book.
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:21.039
He looked over my shoulder and looked at the book and nodded and smiled and looked as if I was doing the work.
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:22.400
So he didn't draw attention to it.
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:29.680
Harold didn't draw attention to it, and then at the end of the lesson, it just touched my shoulder as as ever's yellowing out as if to say, just hold on.
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:30.640
Hold back a minute.
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:33.519
And he didn't tell me after just said, Are you okay?
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:35.119
Wow.
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:38.160
It's all you needed.
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:44.400
I could tell me now if I did that in my master, I'd be held back for my detention and then missed off the next lesson.
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:45.359
So they're okay.
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:48.480
Because he'd clearly seen that my brain wasn't working that day.
00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:49.119
Tough.
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:51.039
So see them.
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:53.519
Yeah, I just Cathy.
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:54.400
That's what you need to do.
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:59.200
It's just see them, make them aware that you've seen them.
00:33:59.440 --> 00:33:59.680
Yeah.
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:03.680
And have fun in their world.
00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:07.759
Enter their world and and play with it and celebrate it.
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:08.400
Yeah.
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:10.480
Anyway, our time is up.
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:11.679
Uh yeah.
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.440
Well, I'm sure they will then.
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:16.159
I better start before I need a tissue.
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:18.159
I haven't gotten out.
00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:19.599
No, it's alright, I can't.
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:22.559
Right, thanks, hello.
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:24.000
See you all.
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:24.559
See you all.
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:25.039
Bye.
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:29.440
Music written by Benjamin Titott.
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:32.159
Supplied by BenSound.com.
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.320
Free music for videos.
00:34:34.880 --> 00:34:37.039
A Dad and His daughter podcast.
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:39.920
It's a perfect little gentleman production.
00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:06.719
Hello, this is Eleanor.
00:00:06.959 --> 00:00:08.240
Hello, this is Phil.
00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:10.000
And you're listening to a dad.
00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:14.720
And his daughter figuring out ADHD out loud.
00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:19.920
Hello.
00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:20.960
Hello.
00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:21.839
Hello everyone.
00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:22.719
Hello, everyone.
00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:25.359
Uh welcome to uh little podcast.
00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:26.559
Yeah, we're still here.
00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:28.559
We're still going, yeah, that's good.
00:00:28.640 --> 00:00:30.399
Well, over 20 episodes, which is lovely.
00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:32.880
But that was a couple of episodes ago, I think.
00:00:33.119 --> 00:00:34.640
Yeah, I would say so.
00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:37.119
Uh Kathy has written in to us.
00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:37.840
Hi, Kathy.
00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:38.479
Hi, Kathy.
00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:40.880
Your support and your kind words.
00:00:41.039 --> 00:00:41.359
Yes.
00:00:41.520 --> 00:00:51.759
Um but she was asking about any advice for um supporting ADS in adolescence.
00:00:52.320 --> 00:00:52.960
Right.
00:00:53.679 --> 00:00:54.960
Um Okay.
00:00:55.520 --> 00:00:58.320
And Yeah.
00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:02.479
I mean adolescence on its own is um tricky.
00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:07.439
Well, yeah, but that's I think our interest, our culprit.
00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:10.079
Right.
00:01:10.319 --> 00:01:15.200
Well, we I know from Lady Yves Leader that adolescence is tough.
00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:18.640
Um but and you would have known as a parent as well.
00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:20.879
Yeah, but you are ADHD.
00:01:21.280 --> 00:01:21.680
Oh, okay.
00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:24.959
And I know ADHD as an adolescent.
00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:28.159
So I don't know what the differences are.
00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:30.640
So actually so what yeah.
00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:37.519
We have no normal No, so all we have to do, we're gonna chat about it, we're gonna chat about ADHD and adolescence.
00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:44.400
We're trying to ravel and unravel what it is to be a parent and an adolescent and ADHD.
00:01:44.480 --> 00:01:50.400
Yeah, what it is to be a prospective parent of a child with ADHD autism.
00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:51.040
Yeah.
00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:59.519
Um what it is to be of myself, I mean, without any parental input, myself as an as an adolescent.
00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:08.000
There's a whole lot to unravel and um pick, and but we do need to make it aware that this is just us having a chat about it.
00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:08.639
As usual.
00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:10.719
We all know what we know nothing.
00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:14.400
Well no, we do, but not enough to be like not experts.
00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:15.919
This is what you should be doing.
00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:18.879
Don't we speak it as gospel?
00:02:19.199 --> 00:02:19.840
No, no, we can't.
00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:23.039
Well, I could give you the gospel, but not no, no, it's not no.
00:02:23.599 --> 00:02:24.159
Yes.
00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:26.400
Just you know, you know what we mean.
00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:28.960
We're not doctors, and this is unofficial advice.
00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:39.360
It's just us explore as always what it is to be a dad and a daughter living with late diagnosed and reflecting back.
00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:42.639
So what would have supported us?
00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:44.560
I think that's probably a good way in.
00:02:44.639 --> 00:02:46.800
What would have supported us as teenagers?
00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:53.599
I think it may be a way of looking at that, is what where did we feel the lack of support, which I seek to hear from you.
00:02:54.240 --> 00:02:57.120
Well, I mean that could go two ways.
00:02:57.599 --> 00:03:03.039
I obviously um I've gone through other three sounds.
00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:04.719
You've obviously gone through.
00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:10.719
That's just my time from skip that whole life about me.
00:03:11.039 --> 00:03:16.319
But obviously, when I was going through that, I didn't know I had ADHD.
00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:24.719
Obviously, we mean I had my um which That was very little information about that.
00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:29.199
Yeah, so that made schooling difficult because there wasn't a lot of information.
00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:40.240
So none of the teachers theoretically could be supportive in Well, that's the interesting thing, is that what I needed because teachers don't have support because Yeah.
00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:58.960
Even so obviously I can't say that I didn't have any support in school, even though that is true, but the teacher didn't have the um tools or the I think they had psych tried, uh the educational psychologists tried, but they didn't know what they were dealing with.
00:03:59.039 --> 00:03:59.199
Yeah.
00:03:59.520 --> 00:04:02.560
They didn't know what And that's when it becomes a difficult thing.
00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:18.240
That's why I can't really say that they weren't supportive because they just didn't know how to absolutely there was support, but they didn't know what and I mean you you didn't uh have an ADHD diagnosis as an adolescent.
00:04:18.399 --> 00:04:18.560
Right.
00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:25.279
And the the school w wouldn't have been prepared for such so much in a bit, but not not generalist teachers.
00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:33.439
I definitely didn't have an ADHD diagnosis as an adolescent, so just scrabble through.
00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:47.120
Yeah, and I think that's that that's where now is different for those with uh that are going through adolescence that may have ADHD because so where where were the big gaps, let's say?
00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:50.800
That's for you, isn't it as a as those adolescent years?
00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:58.720
Where did you feel that somehow Well it was weird because I didn't it was uh it's uh well didn't fit in anywhere.
00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:07.279
So I didn't fit into the normal crowd of adolescents because I didn't feel like that was where I fitted in.
00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:17.759
But then I also didn't fit in with anybody that was in like the learning support development, like uh because again, I feel that that was me.
00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:32.079
So it was like I was almost making my own bubble that just contained me in it, because everyone fitted into a box and I didn't.
00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:37.040
So reflecting on that as a parent, so I'm gonna jump straight to parenting.
00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:43.920
How would that affect you as a parent of somebody with ADX the autism?
00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:45.920
Given your own experience?
00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:47.439
It is difficult.
00:05:48.079 --> 00:05:48.639
What would you do?
00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:50.800
I mean this is not a theoretical question.
00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:52.720
This is a checking question.
00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:54.399
How are you gonna do it?
00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:59.279
How are you gonna be there for for the child?
00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:03.279
Yeah, given that we'll have the same experience.
00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:04.000
I mean I will.
00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:07.279
I mean I will go through it um at some point.
00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:10.879
I assume you all go, sit down and do your work.
00:06:11.120 --> 00:06:16.160
No, no, no, I won't I won't do that because that doesn't work.
00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:20.000
Um and I'm not But why doesn't that work?
00:06:20.240 --> 00:06:23.600
Because his stuff doesn't Why doesn't it work for you?
00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:25.439
Why doesn't it work for me?
00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:27.199
Because it's been told off.
00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:33.759
It's just so we're back to reject rejecting the sensitivity, we're back to dysphoria, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:43.439
So planning stuff, you don't be behave like that, then you your homework is done literally at the last minute, because you literally can't do it any earlier.
00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:43.839
Yeah.
00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:48.399
Um so being told to you're not playing on the play station anymore.
00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:53.199
Um there's two there's two weeks before you go back to school, so I want to see all my homework done by the end of the week.
00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:58.480
So no playing with the football, no playing with the play stage, stop it, get some work done.
00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:03.199
And when he messes about and plays up, you'll have to shout at him.
00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:03.839
Not really.
00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:07.279
Well, if I'm off himself.
00:07:07.839 --> 00:07:23.360
So that you know, I won't won't be doing that, but I'd have to be a bit firmer and try and make him and come almost to him and use what I know works with him and going, okay, you want to do this, we can do that.
00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:26.800
But once you've done that, we need to go and do this.
00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:28.639
Did you find within yourself?
00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:38.720
I I I certainly did a sense of I gave the impression, I'm sure, to everybody around you, to me, that I didn't want to do any work.
00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:45.120
I gave the impression of that because nobody asked what was going on inside.
00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:49.839
In in my own head, I I knew the work needed to be done.
00:07:50.079 --> 00:08:09.360
And I was uh happy to do the work because it needed to be done to do the work because I wanted to learn stuff where but the the outward impression there was one of laziness, one of not bothering, one of not caring about the work, and I cared deeply about the work in many ways.
00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:15.199
Yeah, and I mean I did have that a bit of like from school going, well, she hasn't applied herself.
00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:18.079
And I'm like but but I have.
00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:42.000
I've I've done what I felt I could get done, but it wasn't always to their standard, and that was the other thing that I struggled with because teachers have their own standard of what they expect from certain ages in certain years, so and that was when it becomes a but that's not me.
00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:53.279
Like I know I'm not there, so you need to bring your standards slightly down to to then realise actually I've overachieved here.
00:08:54.000 --> 00:08:54.240
Yeah.
00:08:54.480 --> 00:09:18.879
Rather than kind of saying, but that's not good enough because Miss So and so over here has done three three thousand, you know, and so that sounds like an acceptance of who you genuinely are, rather than um uh a package rather than a yeah and it you know it it came about that my mass my maths was obviously the worst.
00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.000
We won't go into how bad people, but it was terrible.
00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:25.279
And I ended up with a bit of support within my maths.
00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:26.240
Great.
00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:29.440
Apart from he wanted to pull out more from me.
00:09:29.919 --> 00:09:33.039
Which is his job, which is a teacher.
00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:41.440
He wasn't a teacher though, he was supporting the support teacher, so he was just supposed to be there to support through.
00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:45.840
Yeah, that's interesting about support teacher turns into a teacher.
00:09:45.919 --> 00:09:46.159
Yeah.
00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:53.519
Whereas instead of supporting you and trying to work out who you are and what the best models are for you to be able to get on with your work, yeah.
00:09:53.840 --> 00:09:58.639
Actually reverting to how am I gonna make this child do the work that needs to be done.
00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:10.960
So with his support, we got the work that was done, and I was very pleased that I've I've done these equations and whatnot, and I was like, oh I've actually done something.
00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:16.480
You know, my but you can do nothing that you can get that smaller, or you can go well, this a different way.
00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:17.600
And I'm now going.
00:10:18.159 --> 00:10:18.960
Well, I've done it.
00:10:19.120 --> 00:10:20.000
But I've done it.
00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:23.600
I don't I struggled getting to this point.
00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:30.320
I don't need you trying to guide me down a path so that now my brain is gone.
00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:32.559
You have lost me.
00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:33.519
Yes.
00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:38.639
And that was when it became less supportive from a support literature.
00:10:38.879 --> 00:10:42.879
Um yeah, so I'm intrigued by this.
00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:50.639
Um as a as a parent and as somebody who's trying to support someone with ADHD.
00:10:51.200 --> 00:11:01.360
Um how how we create an environment that lets them be seen.
00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:09.039
Because I think that's what's happening when you get a support teacher that really isn't supporting you, but it's just trying to get the work done.
00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:09.360
Yeah.
00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:11.440
You feel you've not seen me.
00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:11.759
Yeah.
00:11:11.919 --> 00:11:16.960
I've done this work and you've not acknowledged me in that.
00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:36.480
I felt that very much as a as a as a teenager, adolescent, uh, both from parents and from school, that I I was an irrelevance at what my job was was to learn to get through school, to be a good boy, um, which I was generally.
00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:47.200
But even even when I behaved well, even when I achieved reasonably well, not brilliantly by any means, but no reasonably well.
00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:57.039
All along I I felt nobody saw nobody from the establishment and nobody from the parent anybody saw me.
00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:06.080
Yeah, and only I can see that being who my grandma was, that she would just be like, you're you're being silly, stop it.
00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:15.519
And actually you're not being silly, you're just generally being so the advice the only advice and I can I can cough.
00:12:15.759 --> 00:12:34.639
Yeah, and I don't know how how it's achieved is how do you parent somebody so that they both are allowed to be who they are, but at the same time you do want them to learn, you do want them to encourage them, and you do want them to be too successful without even knowing it.
00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:52.559
But it's no, it it it's like I never found who I was at school because I didn't fit in to any of the schooling categories to actually be achieving anything great.
00:12:52.799 --> 00:13:04.080
But at no point did I ever feel like there was any pressure from you or mum in the well, you can do better than like there was no okay.
00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:16.559
So that was in that you and my mum could see that actually what I did with in school or out of school was achieved, like that was my achievement.
00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:29.840
I did well without Yeah, I mean I I would I this is it fascinating for me because I don't know whether anything as as usual with our podcast, whether this had anything to do with ADHD, I don't know.
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:35.039
All all we can say is these are our experiences both having ADHD.
00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:35.519
Yeah.
00:13:36.320 --> 00:13:45.200
And I I think as a as a parent, what I we um is but don't get me wrong, you were also strict, but I mean it was not a good thing.
00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:47.200
Yeah, strictness.
00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:57.600
Um but it's this sense of we were at our proudest at school whenever a teacher said, Oh, she's trying her best.
00:13:58.080 --> 00:13:58.879
She's rubbish.
00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:00.480
She's trying her best.
00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:02.559
And there's no reward for that.
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:04.000
Exactly.
00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:06.000
There was no this is the problem.
00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:20.559
Because actually, being a nice kid in the classroom and being friendly and kind and trying your best is the point of life.
00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:21.519
Yeah.
00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:23.279
And like that was what I was saying.
00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:33.919
Well, going back, there is there is awards for those kids that have got learned difficulty and it's severe that have like so they get their own kind of awards.
00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:34.399
Yeah.
00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:37.120
But I wasn't in that like category.
00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:37.759
Yeah.
00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:44.000
And then there's kids that are Genevain A style like GSSEs because they're amazing at everything.
00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:49.120
So they get all that kind of awards, and then there was me.
00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:49.440
Yeah.
00:14:49.600 --> 00:14:51.279
I mean, I might not okay.
00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:53.039
I felt I was on my own.
00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:59.840
I'm not gonna say that probably there was probably back to that thing we've talked about in other podcasts.
00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:10.639
Even though you weren't on your own and you had friends around you in the little groups or whatever, you would feel still isolated even from the small group who but you weren't on your own.
00:15:10.799 --> 00:15:11.039
Yeah.
00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:17.840
Um so it's not a physical on my own, it's a mental on my own.
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:33.600
So if anything, I would say to a parent of ADHD uh child is no, uh and I I don't know if this crosses all AD ADHD types, no and acknowledge that they feel on their own.
00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:34.240
Yeah.
00:15:34.480 --> 00:16:03.440
That they however many friends you might see them playing with, however much fun they might be having, however many connections they make, there's a part of them that feels that they're on their own, that they're weird, that they're not being seen, that they're not acknowledged for who they genuinely are, because there's nothing in the system, even in the system of friendship groups, that that enables that to be celebrated.
00:16:03.679 --> 00:16:08.639
Yeah, I see it with so celebrate it's about find some way of celebrating it.
00:16:08.720 --> 00:16:15.200
Um and that's what I think I said on the comment to um Cathy.
00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:15.919
To Cathy.
00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:16.960
That's it.
00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:17.600
Sorry.
00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:18.320
Sorry, Cathy.
00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:19.360
Ideal speaking.
00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:26.559
Um to Cathy was be engaged, like engage with them.
00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:34.799
So engage with your adolescent, be present with them and find the fun.
00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:40.240
Which is interesting, you reflect on that as your idea your adolescent experience.
00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:42.879
Again, knowledge of new yeah, I'd ADHD.
00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:54.720
But I think it backs through my my experience of not knowing I had AXT with this is unraveled, with your grandma.
00:16:54.960 --> 00:17:02.559
I remember distinctly at uh uh was it at a college uni, probably just after uni on my my own flat.
00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:07.039
Uh that I I don't know why I'd written it or when I'd written it, but I put it on my wall.
00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:17.200
It was something I'd handwritten myself and drawn like I did all around it, and it said, it said, I'm not I remember it clearly, it said, home is where they'd understand you.
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:39.039
Oh which is ah, but at the same time I also remember my mum and dad visiting and dad, because he was the most perceptive of my parents, right, seeing it, and I think he thought I couldn't see or didn't notice, but he turned to you, grandma, and said, Look at this.
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:40.480
Oh no.
00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:42.960
So I don't know what's going on in their conversation.
00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:54.799
No, but it's that feeling of home is where they understand you, and clearly it came from a part of me that felt I'm at home in my own flat because I understand me.
00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:58.799
I didn't but certainly homely.
00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:05.039
I left home at 18, and apart from going back for food and holidays, yeah, I didn't really ever go back home.
00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:15.680
But as a parent, I think I picked up on that deep-rooted sense of whatever happens, I want you to feel that you've been seen.
00:18:15.839 --> 00:18:18.400
Yeah, you can't plumb the depths of it.
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:18.880
Yeah.
00:18:19.359 --> 00:18:30.720
And there was never that, and we never, you know, we've always again it must be the AHD thing, but our bond has always been very strong.
00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:52.559
Like we've always managed to connect, we've always managed to understand one another, and therefore my adolescent growing up was never uh a you know a struggle because you never made it feel like a struggle.
00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:59.119
Yeah, well it was at times, but not again as a youth leader I I seen.
00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:00.000
That helps.
00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:05.599
I was completely blown away uh once and uh one And then that's the other thing, isn't it?
00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:12.720
Is like my growing up, even from baby baby, was never normal.
00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:16.000
Because you always lead a youth group.
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:25.839
I had teenagers and adults parent not parenting me, but they were part of my life, they were part of my growing up.
00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:31.599
So it wasn't like I just had a mum and a dad, it was like yeah, we're gonna chuck you in the deep end.
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:33.440
Probably includes Kathy, actually.
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:38.240
Yeah, that's what I was baby baby, because Kathy has got I'm sure Kathy's helped me.
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:38.880
As a baby.
00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:40.400
As a baby baby.
00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:43.119
Um but there's loads of them out there.
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:45.599
There's there's there's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:51.599
And but that's where I felt like almost something.
00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:57.039
But that's interesting because even in that group, you can as a as a child ADHD growing up.
00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:59.680
I think that's that and I think that is interesting.
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:13.200
I don't know why, that as a child with ADHD, you would behave in such ways, not you personally, but any child with ADHD, which is a bit sort of a bit weird, which doesn't go down well in the classroom.
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:13.519
No.
00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:17.759
Doesn't go well down in a home that wants to run smoothly and sharply.
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:18.160
Yeah.
00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:23.519
But it's a sort of behaviour that in the youth group everyone goes, yeah.
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:30.000
Let's let's see if we can bounce somewhere around like Eleanor.
00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:30.640
Yeah.
00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:32.640
Well, I don't think you've ever gone.
00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:34.240
No, I just hope they don't have it.
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:47.920
But see see the difference of a of a group of adolescents and they're not being well, they're not being off on one or problems, whatever, and they're genuinely enjoying themselves, they're so accepting.
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:48.960
Oh, yeah.
00:20:49.200 --> 00:20:56.079
It's it's the biggest line in society that somehow and it uh maybe social media's messed it all up.
00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:56.559
I don't know.
00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:05.680
My experience of young people when they work together and are allowed to be themselves are so can be so warm and accepting.
00:21:06.079 --> 00:21:09.200
So this is gonna just a left field here.
00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:09.680
Okay.
00:21:10.160 --> 00:21:15.440
But going to this whole, like, you know, use it can be really friendly.
00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:16.079
Yeah.
00:21:16.240 --> 00:21:19.920
That is very true, because I see it in my job.
00:21:20.319 --> 00:21:22.480
Uh uh where I work in a shop.
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:24.000
At my work in a shop.
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:38.000
And it's the way I see this is that we have had more elderly shoplifters that will steal newspapers and drink and magazines than any teenager.
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:39.200
Yeah, absolutely.
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:39.599
Yeah.
00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:56.079
Which I'm still kind of really from because society wants you to think that it's teenagers things the rebels and the the pains in the backsides and and actually it's it's not always the pain.
00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:58.160
But and that's interesting, is it?
00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:05.599
Because that I think that feeds into There comes a point as you grow up the the you sort of want the world to play by a set of rules that you understand.
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:06.079
Yeah.
00:22:06.319 --> 00:22:10.880
And because teenagers haven't learned the rules yet, they don't necessarily play by those rules.
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:14.480
Though there's a certain goodness within them that allows them.
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:20.160
Generally, the teenagers I know that are that are badly behaved, if that's even the right phrase.
00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:22.559
Or or or have issues, have problems.
00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:24.480
They're being caused by adults.
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:25.359
Yeah.
00:22:25.839 --> 00:22:29.599
Um and they don't it might just be because they're not being seen.
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:30.880
Again, being seen.
00:22:31.039 --> 00:22:37.519
So being from to your sign that, you know, homes where you feel that's where they understand you.
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:38.480
Or understand.
00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:43.519
Is they're gonna kick off and they're gonna Yeah, and you have to understand that.
00:22:43.759 --> 00:22:54.079
If if they're not being seen at home, because they're gonna go off and do something that's big and showy to get the attention.
00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:54.640
Yeah.
00:22:54.799 --> 00:23:24.559
I we can't unravel teenage uh because that's psychology and uh maybe that's that's off left field a bit, but I I I do think there's something in this we've said it time and time again already on this podcast about being seen and being supported i in who you are and I think what you have to celebrate the difference, isn't it?
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:36.799
So as a parent who is parenting anybody with ADHD, because it's not always just adolescence, although that is what Kathy But just let them know it's okay.
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:38.000
It's okay to be you.
00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:42.880
It's if you want to go and do what you're that's fine.
00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:47.920
However you want to be, if you want to do that, do that.
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.200
It's not the end of the world.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:57.519
And I have to remind my own child that that's the case sometimes that it's okay.
00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:02.880
Okay, so you didn't do what everyone else did, but did you do what you could do?
00:24:03.200 --> 00:24:07.279
So it's and it's and it in general will say yeah, it will do that.
00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:08.720
Okay.
00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:18.799
And if it becomes an issue, I will go and do the supportive permit of going to the school, speaking to the school, getting the school to understand.
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:29.200
But not out of school, I would go back to this sense of not being seen, of actually you allowing a child to do weird stuff.
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:29.920
Yeah.
00:24:34.160 --> 00:24:34.640
Absolutely.
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:40.880
So I had, as you've pointed out, Philip is being silly.
00:24:41.039 --> 00:24:42.400
Stop being silly, stop shopping.
00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:47.279
Instead of uh celebrating how creative that silliness was.
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:47.839
Yeah.
00:24:48.079 --> 00:25:05.279
Instead of I they'll be a little there, but generally not because I always especially it was all around Christmas, that I always remember like your energetic, you know, your energy levels would rise, and me being a kid, I was thinking, oh, he just wants me to be um enjoy Christmas.
00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:11.519
He's just doing it for me as as a small child that I like, you know, all that and actually write.
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:13.599
Oh, but no.
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:16.240
It's kind of like oh no, he wasn't he's not.
00:25:16.559 --> 00:25:17.759
Oh, wasn't it for you?
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:18.240
No.
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:22.799
Oh, okay.
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:25.920
So And that's because I'm not and that and that's again.
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:28.640
Yeah, weird stuff.
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:29.279
Yeah.
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.839
But I've never gone, oh that's stop it.
00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:36.079
Like I've I've never gone, oh your embarrassed set.
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:39.920
No, well you might have to, but no, never, like never.
00:25:40.559 --> 00:25:48.079
I mean, I've you know, even though I may not have fitted in to any box, there's always one part of me that will remain.
00:25:48.319 --> 00:25:49.759
But that's always the best thing, sorry.
00:25:50.640 --> 00:26:05.759
Is that there was a child that was walking to school with me one day, and I just so happened to be talking about you and what you were doing within schools, and they stopped and said, It's your dad, is he big dear?
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:07.920
I said, Yeah, so that's my dad.
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:10.799
No way, he's so cool.
00:26:11.119 --> 00:26:16.000
And that for me was like was like that's my dad.
00:26:16.079 --> 00:26:21.519
Like that was just uh, you know, uh, okay, my dad is actually quite cool.
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:41.680
You are but to get you you just said something about that you didn't fit into any box, and I I think this is what's really interesting about the an ADHD parent parenting an ADHD child is the best thing about you is you didn't fit in any box.
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:42.480
Yes.
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:55.200
And the hardest thing, I think I don't know, because I'm not putting me in a box, then it's putting you in a box is if you uh you chose to be in a box.
00:26:57.359 --> 00:27:00.960
Well I all I can do is imagine the sort of parent who needs you in a box.
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:01.759
Yeah.
00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:05.599
And that that to me is is weird.
00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:09.039
It's that I want my child to be like this.
00:27:09.680 --> 00:27:10.000
No.
00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:12.559
But it's that controlling.
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:18.000
It's that the parent controls what the child should be.
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:22.160
Yeah, and I think and also society's changed a lot.
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:25.519
So when we were growing up, we just got through it.
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:32.799
We just had to face you know that that feeling of not being part of anything.
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:37.519
Where now it's the flip side of, oh, you're just doing that because you want that label.
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:38.799
That's interesting.
00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:41.119
We didn't learn how to see it's labels, but no.
00:27:41.279 --> 00:27:43.279
Well, there were labels, but they're all really cruel.
00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:46.240
That was that was really cruel.
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:48.799
Um but that's what we have.
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:50.319
So now that's interesting, isn't it?
00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:53.039
It's now parents ridiculed almost.
00:27:53.920 --> 00:27:57.279
You're ADHD, you're a diverse in this way or that way.
00:27:57.599 --> 00:27:57.920
Oh, yeah.
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:07.359
Buddhist there who doesn't fully understand a child with autism or a child with ADHD or even both, so a UDHD.
00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:18.240
And parents telling no, well, you're just doing it because if your child is labelled as one of these, you get this and this and this, and it's like, hang on a minute, right?
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:20.640
I'm not doing it for that.
00:28:20.799 --> 00:28:33.759
I'm doing it because my child clearly needs some support, and the only way that that support is gonna get to him in the right kind of way is if I go through all these hoops.
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:39.759
And it isn't just uh, well, let's go to one meeting and here's your paper.
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:40.240
No.
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:43.440
It's uh right, we're gonna get you to jump through this hoop.
00:28:43.599 --> 00:28:58.160
Right now you've done that, we're gonna get you to jump through and it's it's a long process, and anybody who's gone through it will know that it's draining just to get the support for the person you care most about.
00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:04.559
See, and that's that's the complexity of getting the system to provide support.
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:08.720
So therefore, as a parent, you're supporting your ADHD.
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:10.880
Uh you're a bad child.
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:11.680
Yeah.
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:23.359
I I've come at it from this hands-on parental uh viewpoint, and and almost want to uh t turn the thing on its head.
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:50.000
I wouldn't I wouldn't never say um that ADHD isn't a thing, but you almost have to treat a person because if it if you say I'm gonna treat this person specially because they have ADHD and I have to it's the ADHD is the thing, yeah, then what you're already you're not seeing them, you're seeing their neurodivision.
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:59.920
Yes, and that is the other side of it, is actually and just celebrate them for all their weirdness, their lunacy, the stressing they say, and not all the good stuff either.
00:30:00.079 --> 00:30:17.200
And this is the thing that I think is for me really important, though when they're in a darkened room with the lights off, cover over their heads, when they just want the absolute silence, when they want the whole world to go away, just to have somebody come to you and say, It's alright, mate.
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:17.680
Yeah.
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:18.720
It's all right.
00:30:21.200 --> 00:30:21.519
Yeah.
00:30:21.759 --> 00:30:22.720
That's not a problem.
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:30.880
Because internally, and we went we all we not all, because move not all by, but us generally we'll learn that we do have those days.
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:31.359
Yeah.
00:30:31.519 --> 00:30:37.359
And actually we we both needed someone at some point to kind of go, it's okay.
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:38.000
Yeah.
00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:39.359
I did once.
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:44.720
Sorry, talk to me about my mum like this because she's not the one with us, but I didn't what what?
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:51.440
Just once, I remember mum opening the door and going, Are you okay?
00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:56.640
And obviously as a teenager, adolescent, my response was, yeah, I'm alright.
00:30:57.200 --> 00:30:58.240
And I wasn't alright.
00:30:58.480 --> 00:30:58.640
No.
00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:01.119
And I hadn't been alright for many years.
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:06.559
But only once had she opened the door to say, are you okay?
00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:07.759
Wow.
00:31:08.000 --> 00:31:09.440
And I needed that every week.
00:31:09.599 --> 00:31:10.160
Yeah.
00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:11.359
For many years.
00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:14.559
Just someone to say, not even are you okay?
00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:18.079
Actually, what I needed was someone to say, you're okay.
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:19.680
In a in a different tone.
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:24.480
Crying your eyes out, this is being flawed, but you're okay, because that's lovely.
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:25.119
Yeah.
00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:26.480
I know it hurts.
00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:28.480
But that's fine.
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:29.440
Yeah.
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:31.359
It's it's weird.
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:37.519
Um that's weird thing, holding them in their brokenness, if that's if that's the right term.
00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:47.200
Because ADHC, when it clashes against a world that doesn't they don't fit in, can feel like a a brokenness.
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:48.400
They're not the broken ones.
00:31:48.480 --> 00:31:48.720
Yes.
00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:51.440
The world around them is more broken than they are.
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:55.200
And I get we could talk about this for a very long time.
00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:56.559
That's what we've got a podcast.
00:31:56.720 --> 00:31:56.960
I know.
00:31:57.200 --> 00:31:57.920
We have run out of common.
00:31:58.240 --> 00:32:01.680
Um but it is a general thing.
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:05.680
Well, now it's just you it's the kids' thing.
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:08.799
It's the every child is different.
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:14.559
But the problem we've got is the system is built for one for a child.
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:14.880
Yeah.
00:32:15.119 --> 00:32:15.519
A ideal.
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:19.200
So I don't know which child, but it must have been the very first child you had it with.
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:20.000
The ideal.
00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:30.799
The whole system is built on this is how we believe a child with these points, and that's how we're gonna judge you.
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:31.599
Yeah.
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:35.519
And you know, regardless of how they will be, yeah.
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:37.039
So Yeah.
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:38.559
We need to we need to finish.
00:32:38.720 --> 00:32:40.000
Can I just have one word to Mr.
00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:42.880
Ham Ying, my maths teacher?
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:43.839
Okay.
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:47.039
I was talking about other people who noticed.
00:32:47.279 --> 00:33:00.240
There was one maths lesson in the 6-4 where I don't know how I got to the state, but I ended up just filling the whole page when they curled over it and I was just writing numbers, numbers, numbers.
00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:01.440
Written out by hand.
00:33:01.599 --> 00:33:02.480
Numbers, numbers, numbers.
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:03.680
Want the word numbers?
00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:04.000
Words.
00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:04.319
Okay.
00:33:04.799 --> 00:33:08.720
Numbers, numbers, more numbers, more numbers, numbers, numbers, long more numbers.
00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:10.720
I spent the whole lesson doing that.
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:15.359
And then as teachers did it, he walked around and um looked at your book.
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:21.039
He looked over my shoulder and looked at the book and nodded and smiled and looked as if I was doing the work.
00:33:21.279 --> 00:33:22.400
So he didn't draw attention to it.
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:29.680
Harold didn't draw attention to it, and then at the end of the lesson, it just touched my shoulder as as ever's yellowing out as if to say, just hold on.
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:30.640
Hold back a minute.
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:33.519
And he didn't tell me after just said, Are you okay?
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:35.119
Wow.
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:38.160
It's all you needed.
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:44.400
I could tell me now if I did that in my master, I'd be held back for my detention and then missed off the next lesson.
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:45.359
So they're okay.
00:33:45.440 --> 00:33:48.480
Because he'd clearly seen that my brain wasn't working that day.
00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:49.119
Tough.
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:51.039
So see them.
00:33:51.440 --> 00:33:53.519
Yeah, I just Cathy.
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:54.400
That's what you need to do.
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:59.200
It's just see them, make them aware that you've seen them.
00:33:59.440 --> 00:33:59.680
Yeah.
00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:03.680
And have fun in their world.
00:34:04.079 --> 00:34:07.759
Enter their world and and play with it and celebrate it.
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:08.400
Yeah.
00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:10.480
Anyway, our time is up.
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:11.679
Uh yeah.
00:34:12.000 --> 00:34:13.440
Well, I'm sure they will then.
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:16.159
I better start before I need a tissue.
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:18.159
I haven't gotten out.
00:34:18.639 --> 00:34:19.599
No, it's alright, I can't.
00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:22.559
Right, thanks, hello.
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:24.000
See you all.
00:34:24.239 --> 00:34:24.559
See you all.
00:34:24.880 --> 00:34:25.039
Bye.
00:34:27.039 --> 00:34:29.440
Music written by Benjamin Titott.
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:32.159
Supplied by BenSound.com.
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A Dad and His daughter podcast.
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