Strain 90 - ETT

Ocho:
00:00
Welcome agents to strain 90 dash ETT of the 0 point report the number 1 broadcast all about the news surrounding the secret world IP. Today is Thursday, March 21, 2024, and I am Ocho, one of the hosts for this evening. With me tonight, we have Toots on Waffle.

2TonWaffle:
00:20
Healthify was on actually, not muted, but warning.

Ocho:
00:25
Hope hope we have 2 Todd Waffle. And we have Jimmy the rabbit. Hey. Hey. Say, as usual, my tech has decided to go all over the place tonight.

Ocho:
00:43
With

2TonWaffle:
00:43
green lens.

Ocho:
00:45
Always. Or windows. I currently blame Windows.

2TonWaffle:
00:48
Yeah. That too.

Ocho:
00:50
I've got one more thing I wanna try. Forgive me. I'm gonna try one more thing, but I couldn't do it 7 seconds before this started. I'm gonna try now. So if this doesn't work, I'll be I apologize but I'll be let's see what happens

2TonWaffle:
01:11
do it live

Ocho:
01:12
we'll do it live Testing. 1, 2. Am I still here?

2TonWaffle:
01:19
Are we really still here?

Ocho:
01:21
Are any of us still here, really? Okay. Now my audio says it's coming through. Nope. It's still functioning.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:27
The building? 42.

Ocho:
01:32
I'm just turning off. I'm literally turning off everything that my microphone could possibly be attached to. I'm like, no. Stop it. Stop it.

Ocho:
01:42
Stop it. I'm gonna try one more thing. Disailing this device will to stop functioning. That's the point, motherfucker.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:49
Yeah.

Ocho:
01:50
Okay. Testing. Testing. Testing. I'm gonna get a little loud.

Ocho:
01:54
Hey, everybody.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:55
Damn it. It's still doing it. Okay. You're not allowed. You're allowed to get loud.

Ocho:
02:01
I'm literally my device manager, like, turn this off, turn that off. DTS audio effects can but no. Gone. Get rid of that. Real Realtek audio.

Ocho:
02:12
No. Get get rid of that. Get rid of that. I'd want I I the only thing I want, NVIDIA virtual audio device, WAV extensible. Maybe that's it.

Ocho:
02:21
I don't know. Anyway anyway, how are you doing? I don't think I'll be able to solve this easily, so I apologize. My mic just thinks I'm too loud. Yeah.

Ocho:
02:36
It's too loud. Down.

2TonWaffle:
02:38
Ocho, come on.

Ocho:
02:39
I need to I need to be, like and I need to make this an ASMR sort of situation.

2TonWaffle:
02:44
Just whisper. Whisper sweet nothings.

Ocho:
02:47
If if I'm a little too loud, it yells at me. But welcome. We are here to talk about the secret world. And everything attached to the secret world, all the news you could think of. We do have a lot of news to get through tonight.

2TonWaffle:
03:03
A few few bits of news.

Ocho:
03:05
A few. A little bit. A little bit.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:09
I mean, it's only been, like, a month.

Ocho:
03:11
It has been it has been a little while. That's sort of, I always find it's, like, oh, let's do a show in in 2 weeks. And those 2 weeks go by, and there's, like, nothing. There's, like, a dearth of news. And then 2 weeks later, there's, like, all the news.

Ocho:
03:25
Or at least that's what I feel like it is, anyway. It's like a,

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:33
Yeah. It might just be a time of year.

Ocho:
03:37
Especially this time, it was like it's like, like, oh, we can have the show. And it's like but there's almost nothing. There was, like, almost nothing to talk about. And then in 2 weeks later, it's like, now there's everything. There's we got Dune Awakening.

Ocho:
03:46
We got, new Conan exiles news. We got Dune Spice Wars even. We got new tabletop stuff. We got tabletop news. We got, of course, the envoys of Avalon have started.

Ocho:
04:03
The core the core rule book was sent to all the backers. And tonight, we're even gonna have Brandon from Starry Emblem Studios come on, when Brandon can make it on. He said, he'll be he'll be home basically as soon as he can, and then we're going to basically have him on and talk about everything that's going on with the tabletop.

2TonWaffle:
04:22
And it's not IKEA tabletop either.

Ocho:
04:25
No. What would that even be called? Is that, like, the?

2TonWaffle:
04:30
The.

Ocho:
04:32
The the? So yes. And, of course, starting off with, technical issues because why not?

JimmyTheRabbit:
04:42
I mean, what kind of about normal.

Ocho:
04:44
Yeah. Yeah.

2TonWaffle:
04:44
What kind of streamer are you if you don't have any kind of, like, technical issue?

Ocho:
04:48
I think, actually, that's the problem is that I haven't streamed. Like, I haven't been streaming, and because I haven't been streaming, I haven't been real catching all these audio issues. I feel like if I've been streaming that it would've I would've had them fixed by now. Oh, here we go. Apps using your microphone.

Ocho:
05:05
Microsoft 365. Why is that using my

2TonWaffle:
05:11
Cortana?

Ocho:
05:16
Microsoft 365. But everything requires

2TonWaffle:
05:20
stuff that it doesn't need.

Ocho:
05:22
Because I could see Microsoft 365, like, hey. Let us let me use your app. Because right. That'll be that would be part of Teams. Right?

JimmyTheRabbit:
05:30
Yes, Scratch. Scratch.

Ocho:
05:33
Hey, Scratch. How are you? I was, like, I have a new I have an open Teams, and it's, like, it's using your microphone.

2TonWaffle:
05:39
It's like Clippy. It's, like, oh, looks like you're wanting to stream.

Ocho:
05:45
Yeah. Is that what you're trying to do? Yes. Stop messing with it, please.

2TonWaffle:
05:51
Here, let me help you out with this.

Ocho:
05:57
I hope not. Not like I don't even have any of this stuff installed on this computer.

2TonWaffle:
06:04
Well, that's there's your problem.

Ocho:
06:08
It's like you're not using microphone stuff? Wait a minute.

2TonWaffle:
06:12
You must download all the microphone stuff.

Ocho:
06:15
Let me let me try doing what I uninstall Microsoft 365 literally the only program I use is like excel 2,003 on this machine Alright. Now that's gone. I mean, I'm gonna I'm gonna try it. Just another quick test. Test.

Ocho:
06:35
It's still doing it. Still Nope. It's just get rid of everything. Just burn it all from let apps access your microphone. How about everything?

Ocho:
06:52
But, oh, no. It's doing it through Chrome. God. Says Microsoft 365 currently in use, and it's got the Chrome icon next to it. Are you kidding me?

JimmyTheRabbit:
07:07
Interesting. That's why it's,

Ocho:
07:09
like, I help fix this stuff for other people, and yet myself, I'm, like, what? Why? Why? Why? Just make sure that

2TonWaffle:
07:19
when it's like when then when it's working, you're like, I don't know what I did. I'm not gonna touch it.

Ocho:
07:26
Yeah. Unless it's considering Microsoft 365 as, like, the program that we're using to talk with. I don't know. I don't know. Let me turn all of these off.

Ocho:
07:43
Testing. Snipping tool. Yes. Snipping tool has access to my microphone. Why?

Ocho:
07:48
I don't know.

JimmyTheRabbit:
07:50
Guess you wanna snip your microphone.

Ocho:
07:52
Yeah. Testing. Okay. Testing. Yeah.

Ocho:
07:58
I'm still there.

JimmyTheRabbit:
08:01
I don't know.

Ocho:
08:02
I don't know, and I might not solve it tonight because I feel like I've I've now turned off everything except it says let desktop axe access your microphone. I have to do that.

JimmyTheRabbit:
08:15
Why does your desktop use your microphone?

Ocho:
08:19
Like, desktop app. Like like, let Chrome use a microphone. Well, I kinda have to because the thing we're using is through

JimmyTheRabbit:
08:26
No. It's a fool's errand.

2TonWaffle:
08:30
Now you must communicate with with interpretive dance.

Ocho:
08:34
It's like, let let Discord use my microphone. Yeah. I kinda have to.

JimmyTheRabbit:
08:37
No. That's true. You make it earn that. Don't just let it.

Ocho:
08:42
You wanna turn it off, see what happens? Just for fun?

JimmyTheRabbit:
08:46
Sure. Why not?

Ocho:
08:47
Why not? Why not? We're already this far in. We're already this fucked. Alright.

Ocho:
08:51
Ready? Let's see what happens.

2TonWaffle:
08:54
Bloop. Osho, speak to us.

JimmyTheRabbit:
08:58
Very funny. I know you're miming on purpose.

Ocho:
09:02
Testing? Oh. Oh. Oh, there it is. Down back?

2TonWaffle:
09:06
Yeah.

Ocho:
09:07
Now yeah. It's still here. Testing. Okay. My gosh.

Ocho:
09:15
Hey, Scratch. I know you came in a while ago, but I'm saying hi to you again.

JimmyTheRabbit:
09:20
Too. It was a possibility. Minutes ago when you talk about

Ocho:
09:22
I know.

JimmyTheRabbit:
09:24
I know. I know. I think you said hi 5 minutes ago.

Ocho:
09:27
I probably did.

2TonWaffle:
09:28
I did.

Ocho:
09:30
I probably did. But hey. I hi. Hey, Scratch. Alright.

Ocho:
09:38
So, I'm just gonna get into it. If I fluctuate a bit if it sounds like I am going through puberty, then just assume

2TonWaffle:
09:47
As you are.

Ocho:
09:48
Just assume I'm going through puberty. That's that's really odd. Just say, yep. Yep. Ocho's in puberty again.

2TonWaffle:
09:54
Oh, you do go through that, midlife puberty crisis. Right?

Ocho:
09:59
I've heard that actually that you do go through, like you can go through, like, a second voice change. And what is it? 1 of the guys one of the guys who played, I think it was a guy who played, Pippin in Lord of the Rings. He went through a second voice change. So his voice is, like, much, much deeper than it was now than he than he was in the movies.

JimmyTheRabbit:
10:27
Yeah. My voice is all fucked. That's just because I got punched in the throat when I was a teenager. My my voice is, like, cracked for the last, like, 30 years. That's just because it cracks where I got punched.

JimmyTheRabbit:
10:43
It permanently damaged my voice box.

Ocho:
10:46
Alright. So let's go over some of the news we have. 1st and foremost, the envoys of Avalon have returned for the Vernal Equinox, their 12th visit to Agartha. Twelfth visit, and their 6th spring. So this is the the 6th spring that we have had.

Ocho:
11:07
The envoy is the 12th time overall. It's always good to see them. And as usual, the daily logins started on March 17th, and the envoys arrived just in time for the equinox on 18th. So a a day disparity between there.

JimmyTheRabbit:
11:27
That that seems about normal.

Ocho:
11:30
That's about normal now. Yeah. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
11:32
I think they're just

2TonWaffle:
11:35
They're automatic.

JimmyTheRabbit:
11:36
The the auto things are off by, like, a day for some reason.

Ocho:
11:39
Yeah. But at least it's consistent. What's that?

JimmyTheRabbit:
11:44
So at least it's consistent.

Ocho:
11:45
Yes. Right. Consistently inconsistent.

JimmyTheRabbit:
11:48
Well, no. It is consist it's consistent. They're not consistent with each other, but, like, no. Actually, they're consistent with each other. They're not at the same time, but they are always, like, the same But they're The automation is

Ocho:
12:00
necessarily.

JimmyTheRabbit:
12:02
They just set 1 on one day, and they set 1, like, 12 hours later or something. Mhmm.

2TonWaffle:
12:09
And, of course, the, leap year probably messed things up too.

Ocho:
12:12
I would say, I wonder if the leap year had something to do with it.

JimmyTheRabbit:
12:16
They don't adjust things for leap year for well, no. Sorry. Not leap year. I was thinking, you said leap year, but I was thinking spring forward. They don't adjust things for the time change.

Ocho:
12:26
Yeah. Generally smart idea to just go off of just universal time, usually.

JimmyTheRabbit:
12:34
Yeah. But it is weird because, like, yeah, I go from, like, oh, the the reset the daily resets, like, at 2 AM, and, like, now it's at 3 AM or whatever the difference is. You know what I'm saying? Like

Ocho:
12:48
It is. Just keep it internally consistent as this is universal time, and everything is just based on universal time. Because, yeah, dealing with that twice a year, like, that always was a headache.

JimmyTheRabbit:
13:03
You know, people so you oftentimes see people, like, kind of piss out of people exaggerating, like, oh, time change happened. Now you screwed up for for, like, 2 weeks or, oh my god. Right? Like

Ocho:
13:17
Yeah. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
13:18
Get get people shit for for that kind of bullshit.

Ocho:
13:21
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
13:21
But one thing I noticed, like, that honestly has messed did mess up my kids Yeah. Like, significantly. Oh,

Ocho:
13:31
wow. Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
13:32
Yeah. Because they're they're just their body sleep schedule is not lined up with the clock anymore.

Ocho:
13:38
Oh, yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
13:39
Like and it was just taking like, I like, I think as an adult, like, I just I have messed up my sleep schedule so many times over the years. You know? Like, it doesn't matter. Like, it has almost, like like, 1 hour.

Ocho:
13:53
Yeah. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
13:53
30 hour stream and then go to sleep and wake up. Like, it has no bearing on anything. Right?

Ocho:
13:59
It

JimmyTheRabbit:
13:59
doesn't bother me at all. But for them, yeah, their their their their whole rhythm was off.

Ocho:
14:06
Really? Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
14:07
Yeah. It's also an idea because they're old they're just in that stage. Like, they're old enough where they're, like, they're going to you know, they're going to school. They're they they got a schedule. They they need to go to sleep a certain time and get up at a certain time.

JimmyTheRabbit:
14:24
Mhmm. And now they're just like, no. I'm I'm this is wrong. Body says wake up now, but it's, you know, it's an hour later. Mhmm.

Ocho:
14:36
I'll say that it might be an age thing because, I know my son hasn't hasn't hasn't, like, it didn't affect him at all. I would say it affected me a little worse, but not, like, horrifically. Like, it wasn't like yeah. I'm not I'm a certain person to be, like, over dramatically, like,

JimmyTheRabbit:
14:52
oh my gosh. You know? I legitimately don't notice. But that is because I stay up till, like, 2 or 3 AM every night anyways. And then on the weekends, I inevitably end up staying up till, like, 8 AM 8 AM in the morning or some stupid shit and get in trouble with my wife.

JimmyTheRabbit:
15:06
She's like, you're still up. I'm going to work. What what's wrong with you? So, like, my sleep is so all over the place. Like, it it literally did not notice at all.

JimmyTheRabbit:
15:17
Didn't make any difference to how jacked up my sleep schedule is.

Ocho:
15:21
I'm glad to hear you at least get a little bit of agro because that makes me feel a little bit more normal when when I when I save a little too late and, like, my wife's like, what are you doing? Like, like, she wakes up because she is very light sleeper and so right. So she wakes up in the middle of the night, and sometimes that's when I'm coming up to bed, and she's like, what the hell? Like, just whatever. Just

JimmyTheRabbit:
15:46
Yeah. It's not it's not so much like, the the late, like, you know, 2, 3 in the morning or something. It's when she's, like, getting ready to leave for work because she works at, like, the bakery or something.

Ocho:
15:56
Mhmm. Like, kinda. Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
15:58
And so she's just leaving at, like, 6:30, 7, and she comes downstairs, and I'm still on the computer. It's like and then she comes home from work at, like, noon, and I'm still you know, I haven't been on the bed. Like, I've been up since Friday morning. It's now Saturday afternoon. Like, what is wrong with you?

Ocho:
16:16
I wondered I wondered if she was, like if she'd be very, like because you do a you do sometimes you do a, like, a you you easily We're

JimmyTheRabbit:
16:22
talking not.

Ocho:
16:23
Like, really long streams. So, like, I wonder I always wondered if it was, like, like, how supportive she was over over that sort of thing.

JimmyTheRabbit:
16:33
I think.

Ocho:
16:35
That was my cat.

JimmyTheRabbit:
16:36
Pretty supportive in general and especially of, like, the charity Hey, Brandon. Stream. Especially with, like, the extra life streams, you know, because those are those are, you know, 30 hours.

Ocho:
16:46
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
16:46
And so, like, that's where I'll have to be like, hey. I need you to help. You know? I'm not gonna be available to help with a kid because I'm gonna be

Ocho:
16:56
doing charity thing

JimmyTheRabbit:
16:57
for 30 hours. So yeah. No. She's she's she's really good about that. And anymore, it's more just like she just shakes her head.

JimmyTheRabbit:
17:08
She's like, I and just goes like, I don't know how you do that.

2TonWaffle:
17:12
Oh, we got, Vernon coming in.

JimmyTheRabbit:
17:15
Oh, okay. Alright.

2TonWaffle:
17:16
I just sent him the link.

JimmyTheRabbit:
17:18
We we need, like, graphic effects.

2TonWaffle:
17:21
Graphic effects?

JimmyTheRabbit:
17:22
Yeah. Like, coming in hot, and then we just have, like, an explosion on the screen.

2TonWaffle:
17:26
What do you think this is? Some kind of, like, production?

Ocho:
17:28
Some sort of, like, breaking news little video clip.

JimmyTheRabbit:
17:31
Do do do do do do do do.

Ocho:
17:33
Breaking news.

JimmyTheRabbit:
17:33
Is it too much to ask, Waffle, that you just be, like, a little like Michael Bay? Explosions? Explosions, transformers, you know.

Ocho:
17:47
Get your get your vis effects going on.

JimmyTheRabbit:
17:51
I just want your explosions to have explosions and then, like, a transformer walking away from the explosion without looking because that's how you do it. Cool.

Ocho:
17:59
That's yeah. You can't look. Never look.

2TonWaffle:
18:03
Yeah. You never look. Never look back.

Ocho:
18:05
You could maybe swing your camera back around. But actual looking? No. It's not.

2TonWaffle:
18:11
Yeah. The camera can look.

JimmyTheRabbit:
18:15
What if you're using a selfie stick?

Ocho:
18:18
See, that that's fine to me. That works.

JimmyTheRabbit:
18:21
Oh, we have a chair, and we have a person.

Ocho:
18:23
We have a Brandon. Brandon.

Brandon:
18:28
Trying to hide all the garbage behind me.

Ocho:
18:31
I I do that. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
18:34
No. I can only see behind you now.

Ocho:
18:36
You don't wanna see what's to my left.

JimmyTheRabbit:
18:39
There. Oh. Hello, everyone. Hello. Hold on one second.

Ocho:
18:43
Hey. How are you doing, sir?

Brandon:
18:46
I'm alive and amazing.

Ocho:
18:50
Good. Good.

JimmyTheRabbit:
18:51
I am one of those things.

Ocho:
18:53
Good to hear. I am going through puberty because my computer has decided to make that so. Yeah.

Brandon:
19:02
Here in myself, it was very confusing. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
19:07
Well, you you don't normally converse with yourself on delay?

Ocho:
19:13
Hasn't wasn't that, like I I've heard of that being used as a method to, like, disrupt crowds or something like that to take, like, some sort of, like, audio receiver and, like, a microphone or the like a like a, I don't know, some sort of some sort of giant speaker that goes back, and all it does is just takes what people are yelling and just sort of, like, sends it back to them with a delay. And that's a way to, like, get them to shut up. I don't know.

JimmyTheRabbit:
19:40
Yeah. Short like, it does. It short circuits your brain a little bit.

Ocho:
19:43
Yeah.

Brandon:
19:43
My brain's always short circuited, so it's no problem.

Ocho:
19:48
Well, especially now. Right? Because of how much secret world stuff that you've been putting out. I'm sure you are at least a little bit fried. Right?

Brandon:
19:57
Well, you know, getting the book to the finish line was the chore. Yeah. That was the hardest part. I mean, it just would There was issues in the background that we finally got resolved, but,

Ocho:
20:10
you

Brandon:
20:10
know, I mean, there was just there's just some personal things that came up for different people on the team. And so it was really tough getting it across the finish line. But then we we we got everything's in and, like, almost everything's alright here. Now we're waiting on the limited, covers to show up so we could approve those. Like, here's the monster cards now.

Brandon:
20:31
They look pretty good.

Ocho:
20:33
Okay. Okay.

Brandon:
20:34
Like, they turned out really nice.

Ocho:
20:36
But And then the,

JimmyTheRabbit:
20:37
we

2TonWaffle:
20:37
Yeah. I know. I'm working on it.

Ocho:
20:39
It sucked fast. Waffles moving around your your camera a little bit. Oh. So what you're what you're what you're showing up, we they don't necessarily see. Like that.

Brandon:
20:53
I don't know.

Ocho:
20:54
There you go.

JimmyTheRabbit:
20:55
Right. There. There. That's

Ocho:
20:56
good. Right there. There you go.

JimmyTheRabbit:
20:57
Okay. Yeah.

Ocho:
20:58
Perfect. So

Brandon:
20:59
that's the, like, the pre gen card. Not the pre gen, but the subclass cards and then the monster. Let's see. Sweet. They turned out the the quality on the cards so the the the drawback to print on demand, which is unfortunately while we and I say unfortunately in the sense that I would always want we always wanna do better, but right now is is when essentially, when you do printing on print on demand, it's like a giant photocopy machine.

Ocho:
21:26
Okay. So

Brandon:
21:28
let's see if I move this way, then you can see me. There, sort of. Maybe. Yeah. And so the the the darkness, like, some of the art we've done, we've we've learned now in the future.

Brandon:
21:38
We're gonna do much brighter art. I mean, cool, dark, moody art's great except for print on demand. Some of the pictures are a bit darker than we would like. They're a little bit hard to see, but there's no way to fix that because we were first time making a book, and we can't redo all the art to make that fix. There's a couple pictures that I would do different going to the future, much less dark and, you know, moody type stuff because unless we can get to, standard print runs, that will always be a little bit tough to show up.

Brandon:
22:06
But and these are things we're learning. It's our 1st major book. I mean Yeah. 386 page book is our first real big project. Before that, we did a couple of, like, 30, 40 page things.

Brandon:
22:16
So

Ocho:
22:17
Yeah. That's And I was

JimmyTheRabbit:
22:18
It's a leap. Factor of 10? Factor of 10?

Ocho:
22:21
Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon:
22:22
Let's just multiply that work times 10, and let's take a whole lot of money and have a whole lot of people mad at us if we don't deliver. But other than that, we're fine.

2TonWaffle:
22:30
Well, it's also the fact that it yeah. It's almost, yeah, 370 pages or whatnot, but it's it's just so jam packed full of stuff for lore and just everything is is in there.

Brandon:
22:41
The first 100 pages or so is the lore and characters you can mean such roughly at something like that. I don't have the exact page count. And then Mhmm. Then you have, you know, you know, making characters and the rules for that and all that such and and how that kind of works out. And then you have, you know, all the d and d type rules that we also smashed in there as well.

Brandon:
23:00
And then, so, yeah, it's a lot. And then and then we did a fair amount of monsters too. We actually, I think, put in a few more than we promised overall. Not everything is illustrated because, you know, we could do art for everything, but we did a fair amount of art on that. We'd love to do more, but, you know, going forward, we'll add more stuff as we go.

Brandon:
23:18
So

Ocho:
23:20
So I was looking through the, the the finish because part of this is that you sent out on, March 17th is the date that you sent out to all backers the final core rule book of the PDF. Right. And and so if you if you have that, you can go get it. You can if you have the link, you put out an FAQ in case you didn't get the link. Like, there was a there was an update that you guys posted that said

Brandon:
23:47
There's a problem with somehow, for whatever reason, either it's it's probably me. Again, this is our first time delivering stuff. So, the backer kit, I probably didn't select something correctly that did not deliver to the backer kit backers. I don't know for sure. This weekend when I am because I I do most of my work on the weekends.

Brandon:
24:04
So everyone who's email me, like, give me till give me 2 weeks because, effectively, that only gives me 4 days to figure it out, Saturday, Sunday for 2 different weekends. Mhmm. Because I I can't really dig into this at night. Like, I get, I get off at 6. It's an hour drive home from work, you know, dinner, shower, whatever, and then, you know, I got an hour, hour and a half at night to do whatever I'm doing.

Brandon:
24:24
So the weekends is when I focus on really getting stuff done. Till, you know, till we make millions, and this is all I have to do.

Ocho:
24:29
No. No. I mean, understandably. Yeah. Absolutely.

Ocho:
24:34
Like, yeah, this is this is sort of sort of your side project, really.

Brandon:
24:37
It it it is a side project in a sense. I'd love I'm trying you know, everyone tells me don't don't get into this if you wanna make money. Do you're you're you're don't make games if you if you wanna make money. And I I don't agree that we can't make money. I'm just not gonna get rich at it.

JimmyTheRabbit:
24:53
Right.

Brandon:
24:54
It's fair. You know, obviously, if we if I I really tried hard to get, I have the per I have the email for the execs at Warner Brothers. I found the people who do toy distributions and such, whatever. And, I I tried really hard to get the rights to Scooby Doo, but they said not at this time because that that Kickstarter would have funded everything else. I'm sure.

Brandon:
25:15
That's a 3 that's a multigenerational IP that's been around for you know, imagine the Scooby Doo role playing game.

Ocho:
25:21
I think I Is it Scooby Doo tabletop?

Brandon:
25:24
I would've. It would've been huge because, you know, you got you know, my mom would who could have seen when she was younger, you know, kid my generation, next generation. It's got movies for multiple generations. That's that's amazing. Mhmm.

Brandon:
25:37
Mhmm. Something like that. Secret World is, you know, it's unfortunately not as big as it was. And so even with that, we had a massive response for a first time game make you know, well, as far as most of our concern, first time game maker. We did a really we had a really big response.

Brandon:
25:56
So, I mean, imagine what something like a big IP would do for a small company, you know, as far as that goes.

Ocho:
26:01
But Oh, yeah.

Brandon:
26:02
We're super happy with the response from Secret World, and almost all the backers have been very understand. If you were a little bit upset that they could get things as quick as they wanted or something like that But, I mean, I can understand why they're upset. They want it now. They're excited. They've had to wait a long time.

Brandon:
26:19
We've had a a fair amount of delays. Fortunately, it's all, you know, we've got all like I said, we got the cards now. We got the main book. We're just waiting on the, limited covers to come in so I can approve them, and then we can start sending out the codes, and I could just stay on on the weekends until everyone gets their stuff.

Ocho:
26:37
Okay. Yeah. So I mean, yeah, you're working with an IP that, secret world has a it's yeah. It's not in its heyday. It's not in its, you know, the the Falcom has sort of put it on the back burner for for their other projects, for Dune, for, Conan Exiles, for

JimmyTheRabbit:
26:58
Did it have a heyday, though? I think it did.

2TonWaffle:
27:01
It did.

Brandon:
27:02
It there was Relative to the IP and its size, it had its heyday.

JimmyTheRabbit:
27:06
Yeah. I'm not trying to, like, shit talk it, but I, like Yeah. I I love the game, obviously. But Oh,

Ocho:
27:12
but it was, yeah, sort of sort of

JimmyTheRabbit:
27:14
always a little bit launch that it never really recovered from. And it's always had a steady influx, and, like, a steady amount of people who just stuck with it and a steady influx of people trying it. And especially since we're in free to play. Right? There's even more people trying.

JimmyTheRabbit:
27:29
Mhmm. But there's a pretty decent turnover. But I don't I actually don't know. Like, you okay. I will say it used to get updates.

JimmyTheRabbit:
27:37
Right? So maybe that would be a video that had content coming out, but that didn't actually equate to, like, popularity or number of people playing it really. Like, that was one of the problems when they why they went free to play is because they didn't sell enough of the DLCs to cover making them.

Ocho:
27:56
Yeah. Yeah. They they sort of had an issue with that. I'm I'm actually not sure or Sorry. Go ahead.

JimmyTheRabbit:
28:03
If it was I'm actually not sure if it was ever, like, spiked real high at a specific point.

Ocho:
28:10
I wonder I I guess, Funkam has those numbers. I wonder when that point actually would be. Like like, when that point actually would be that that there is a if they act if there was, like, a a peak. Yeah.

Brandon:
28:27
Some of that stuff, I think, can be found, and I think there's certain ways to get that information from Steam or whatever, at least from that. You know, it would be like back when it first you could see the current several years of it. I am however long it was on Steam, I guess.

Ocho:
28:38
Yeah. Yeah. You probably see

2TonWaffle:
28:39
the the Steam when it first when it first came out of Steam, but there's, like, what, 7, 6 years?

Ocho:
28:46
Yeah. There was a long delay.

Brandon:
28:48
Yeah. We wouldn't have any of that. So

Ocho:
28:49
When they actually launched on Steam. Yeah. So that's sort of like

Brandon:
28:52
Well, there's

JimmyTheRabbit:
28:52
no yeah.

Brandon:
28:53
And there's

Ocho:
28:53
also that.

JimmyTheRabbit:
28:55
But Yeah. There's also the problem. Like, you don't you don't have the Buncomm launcher numbers. That's always been a problem. Right?

JimmyTheRabbit:
29:00
It's, like, even even now, even with legends, we have you can look at the Steam chart, but that doesn't tell you anyone that's playing not on Steam.

Ocho:
29:11
Yeah. And most people who started playing not on Steam are still probably still not playing on Steam. Like, I'm not playing on Steam.

JimmyTheRabbit:
29:18
Well, what's funny is I've actually seen because, technically, I think you can convert either way, like, once. So I think people have actually had a Steam account and converted to the Funkom account in the fuck look. Steam. I'm not I don't wanna do that.

Ocho:
29:32
Yeah.

Brandon:
29:36
Well, I mean, either way, the game is is I think in a lot of ways, the tabletop will serve it better than, the video game can as far as what we can do with it in some ways. It's a lot less expensive to create content for an RPG. Obviously, if we had, like, you know, Wizards of the Coast budget, we could be knocking it out. But, as a whole, I mean, I think we're gonna be able to hope no. I hope we're gonna be able to add a a good amount of content to it over the next couple years.

Brandon:
30:06
They just renewed our contract with us. So we have enough yeah. Well, I wanted to secure that before we start worrying about the next couple of projects because we were good through all of next year pretty much still. And so I wanted to make sure that if we start to try to tell a story arc with sequential books, I don't wanna get halfway through and go, another time you can't find out what happens at the end.

2TonWaffle:
30:31
Yeah. You get to a certain point and it's like, well, story continues, but you're not gonna be able to know what it is. Yeah.

Brandon:
30:37
We're never

JimmyTheRabbit:
30:37
gonna tell you. Uh-huh.

Brandon:
30:39
Because I do have a story arc in mind that now that we have that time, I'm gonna see if I can get the overall arc approved with Funcom first, and then we're gonna start to do the individual books working towards that story, which will take about 5 books. It doesn't have to, but that's we want to do like a like I've said many times before, North America

JimmyTheRabbit:
30:58
Mhmm.

Brandon:
30:58
Illuminati, Templar, Europe. You can kinda break it down by geography a little bit and add so we can add some area to explore explore the rest of the secret world more in-depth. And that's why we highlighted Boston, Mumbai, and Paris in the book because we wanted to go to areas that are not really fully covered, and we wanna and as we do this, we wanna, you know, more large cities that you haven't gone to so you can explore how it's affecting different parts of the world.

Ocho:
31:26
Yeah. Absolutely. To go to go to those places where, where the game itself has not gone. Yeah. Absolutely.

Ocho:
31:33
Or even that the game maybe might not even tend to to ever go to. You know?

Brandon:
31:37
Well, and then that's the thing with the book. If we do a book, let's say, probably a 150 to 200 pages going forward with the size of the books will be as as we expand the setting. And we can do in that 100 pages since a lot of it's just your imagination. You don't need every detail. It's not generating, you know, dozens of models and city locations and all the work that has to go into that.

Brandon:
31:58
We can just add quite a bit of detail into a book, you know, a 100 pages of lore for Europe. Obviously, couldn't cover all of Europe, but we can cover massive more trunks that in a video game would cost much more take much more time that I mean, no video game can ever keep up with an RPG provided, you know, you keep making the books as far as the total content you can give ideas for. Because, you know, obviously, the GM has what's in their brain. They're the computer. You're you're playing against the GM, and not really.

Brandon:
32:24
It's supposed to be cooperative in some sense, but you get my idea. Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
32:27
Once you

Brandon:
32:28
have a medium, you would like to throw zombies at you till you die, which is totally legit because you can't die more

Ocho:
32:36
or less. More or less. More or less. But that is something that I that

2TonWaffle:
32:40
I It's more about inconvenience.

JimmyTheRabbit:
32:41
It doesn't stop you.

Brandon:
32:44
Well, I think the ideal thing too is to, in some ways, would be to focus sometimes throw stuff at the players that they yeah. Right, Kendra Maje. That they actually can't win against. Number 1, because in a normal game, when

JimmyTheRabbit:
33:03
you do

Brandon:
33:03
that, you kill the players, and it's a it's a tpk. TPK. No one has any fun. They're all dead. They have to make all the characters.

Brandon:
33:10
In this game, you show that the world is dangerous. You can't always win, but you you also have the the the good part that, hey. Even I do kill them all, they're not dead Right. For long.

Ocho:
33:20
Right. And that's sort of, sort of sort of part of why I'm actually really excited about this prospect is because, like, you know, part of part of the whole aspect of storytelling, as you know, is it's sort of like it's a cooperative effort, the DM and the players together, and it's it's an entire all encompassing story. You know? It is not a video game. It is not basically where you are going off of what is essentially a very set set thing.

Ocho:
33:50
It's very set thing that it's that the that the DM can turn stuff around, that they have that control. And so sometimes you feel like the DMs, like, they don't want to kill the players because that ends the story, that ends the fun, that ends the the whole cooperative storytelling idea. It it it takes it takes away from that. But in this secret world setting, death is not necessarily death. So Yeah.

Ocho:
34:18
You can Well,

JimmyTheRabbit:
34:19
it was much nicer DMs than I ever did.

Ocho:
34:23
What's that?

JimmyTheRabbit:
34:24
So you played with much nicer DMs than I ever did. Yeah. Probably. Yeah. The ones I played with were like, oh, you're well o 2?

JimmyTheRabbit:
34:33
Yeah. So you're about to get mauled to death by these dogs. Good luck climbing a tree. Rolling.

2TonWaffle:
34:41
And here comes a rock that's gonna crush squish you.

JimmyTheRabbit:
34:44
Yeah. Like, you've stepped on a LEGO. You have an infection. You died.

Ocho:
34:50
Yeah. Pee is out. You're done.

Brandon:
34:52
Sorry, guys. Too bad for you. And and just getting to this point was really nice, finally. I feel like now I can actually hold up a book and go, I make gains now. So for me, this has been, about 6 years of getting into the industry, and this is our, like I said, our first major project.

Brandon:
35:10
So now we have a whole list of projects all lined up that we wrote while we were waiting for stuff here to move along. Various people were working on things like I had my Saints and Center setting has been worked on for years or Yeah. We we we acquired another IP, Dominions of Steel, which is like a MechWarriorsque inspired setting. You know, we just have a lot going on, but it's it's it's the secret world is gonna be something we're probably gonna do. The goal is to do it realistically is to do at least a book a year.

Brandon:
35:38
And maybe

Ocho:
35:39
just Okay.

Brandon:
35:40
That's kind of the goal. I mean, it'll be depending on response and help you, you know, the next Kickstarter goes off for, like, 200 people back at that might slow it down a lot.

Ocho:
35:49
Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon:
35:52
So we'll see how the secret world does for Savage Worlds because that's up next, probably next month.

Ocho:
35:57
Okay. And that's, yeah, that's the next Kickstarter that's coming. Do that.

Brandon:
36:00
Yep. We had said we were gonna do 2 systems. Savage Worlds was always my intended alternate system. We just believe 5 e was gonna give us the best chance to be successful and, you know, fund the project. And, once you

2TonWaffle:
36:16
great. Yep.

Ocho:
36:17
I think that was a, yeah, that was a good call. Absolutely. To start with, what is basically the most popular thing right now, strike while the iron is hot sort of situation. And then and and if you pay attention to the Discord, you'll see that there's a lot of people going, like, oh, you know, 5 e. And if there's a lot of people who are basically not purists, I would say, but they are, very passionate about other systems thinking that basically 5 e is not, you know, the be all end all.

Ocho:
36:49
And it of course, it it doesn't have to be. You know, it's it's not the be all end all. Heresy. But, but you could you know, it's it's not the only system. There's a whole bunch of systems out there.

Ocho:
37:03
It's just right. You start with what is basically the most popular, and then you get all the niche people coming out of the woodwork and say, oh, but this system is, you know, people who know a lot more than me or you know?

Brandon:
37:16
Everybody has their favorite system.

2TonWaffle:
37:18
Yes.

Brandon:
37:19
It it it you know, almost everyone who plays a role playing game at one point in her time has played 5 e well, not 5 e, but dungeons and dragons of some sort. Right. Most people. Not all, but most. And to decide to make your first project a niche game, that's fine.

Brandon:
37:37
If you don't wanna make money, you can do most of the art yourself. You can write most of it yourself.

JimmyTheRabbit:
37:43
Mhmm.

Brandon:
37:44
Then you can make that work. I I would say I'm an okay writer. I wouldn't sell my work without an editor. A strong editor going over my direct my own work. Okay?

Brandon:
37:53
I mean, I didn't write this book. I supervised the art. I had the idea. I negotiated the contract. I brought on Josh because he, you know, writes for the secret world or or did.

Brandon:
38:05
Mhmm. Now now he's writing for Dune.

JimmyTheRabbit:
38:09
I brought

Brandon:
38:10
yeah. He's full time back for Funcom.

JimmyTheRabbit:
38:13
Mhmm. Awesome.

Brandon:
38:13
And, I, hired, you know, my wife who's plays this game, she's got, like, 3 level fifties. That's probably the main reason I know more about knew anything about the game was more because of her. I played quite a bit, but I didn't, like, play it through as much as a lot of other people. So I didn't wanna make it me writing the book. I wanna find the people who play the game, people who wrote the game so that Mhmm.

Brandon:
38:36
The book would reflect the lore, even though we advanced it, would still have the right feel of the setting. And, of course, some people say, well, I don't think this is that. I mean, you know what? Everything is true. Your version of the secret world is completely right.

Brandon:
38:49
Run it your way.

Ocho:
38:50
Yeah.

Brandon:
38:50
That's where role play game is. We had to make some decisions that

Ocho:
38:54
How soon

Brandon:
38:54
made sense for us.

Ocho:
38:55
Yeah. Like, if you want your house rules to say that, you know, death works exactly the same way that we see in the game and that, you know, that you just sort of respawn somewhere else just really quickly. You know? And you could possibly even run back into the fight. You know?

Ocho:
39:13
You could you could make that happen. This is tabletop. Part of tabletop is that it's open. It is whatever your imagination can come up with.

Brandon:
39:23
You can respond really quickly if you make that choice between light and dark.

Ocho:
39:28
And that's one aspect. You have set. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
39:31
Yeah. That

2TonWaffle:
39:31
was one aspect I like that you pretty much instead of going with it just doing it all by yourself. You kind of expanded out your reach to surround yourself with these different people that had the experience with, you know, the game or with, Joshua Deutsche. I I I keep messing up his name. Deetsch.

JimmyTheRabbit:
39:52
Just the Scriv.

2TonWaffle:
39:54
Scriv. Scriv. Scriv. Scriv. Scrivner.

Ocho:
39:55
Scrivnomancer is a lot easier.

Brandon:
39:55
Scrivnomancer. That's the name. That's all that matter.

2TonWaffle:
39:58
But it's just, like, surrounding yourself with all these people that have the experience where you personally didn't have, but made a product that would incorporate all of their experience as well, which I think is was probably what helped also to speak out to the white community as well.

Ocho:
40:17
Mhmm.

Brandon:
40:18
I feel like all my years of being a manage in management and sales training and other things taught me how to be collaborative.

Ocho:
40:25
Mhmm.

Brandon:
40:27
And that's probably my strength that I bring to my own little company was I I had ideas, but I didn't know how to do those ideas. Like, I want this. I think this would be cool. I have a vision for a company. But I always knew, said, but I don't know I don't think I'm smarter than everyone.

Brandon:
40:43
I know that I'm very much not. So I said, let me find people who are smarter than me in each of these areas. My partner, Ross Watson. He's written for the, Star Wars, role playing game.

2TonWaffle:
40:54
Okay.

Brandon:
40:54
He's written and and he was, oversaw the edge of the empire game, that's out. Still finally going back into print. And he worked for a long time on Warhammer 40 k. He's written for, savage worlds and rifts and such. And so he knows all these people.

Brandon:
41:13
He knew writers. He knew Daryl Hardy who Daryl Hardy had never played this game. Okay. He did a good chunk of writing in it. But what he did was is he went to every wiki.

Brandon:
41:23
He went to he played the game. He went and sat down and played the game for a couple hours to at least get a feel for it. And then he talked to Josh, and then he, he read everything he could read. He watched all these videos on it. He just absorbed the Lord.

Brandon:
41:36
He's that. He writes for all sorts of people in the industry, and he doesn't just say, oh, I know I'll write it my way. He goes, let me look at the source material. So even the writer that wrote a chunk of it who didn't wasn't in it just read everything he could and just watched hours of videos and played the game for several hours before he started writing

Ocho:
41:56
for it. Yeah. Okay. Getting into it. Yeah.

Ocho:
41:58
Getting that, that professionalism into the the source material.

Brandon:
42:03
Yeah. It, it's made a a big difference in making it come out. And I I think I think for those that say, you know, they don't like 5 e. It's fine. Not everyone does.

Brandon:
42:12
I mean, I like to play 5 e. I don't like to run 5 e. You know? It's it's it's a thing. I'm I I can play 5 e and I can run 5 e, but I don't like to run.

Brandon:
42:22
I rode I ran, like, 20 games for my daughter because she's 27 years old. Said, dad, I really wanna play d and d. I said, okay. I'll run d and d for you. Because that's that but I won't run it for anyone else.

Brandon:
42:33
That's my kid. So if you you don't run it,

JimmyTheRabbit:
42:34
you don't make my kid.

Brandon:
42:36
So, but the savage world system, I can run or play that in my sleep. And so Interesting. That's that it's so much easier to put an encounter together. It's so much easier to figure out how you wanna build something. And for those that have said, this should be a classless thing, we that Savage Worlds is that.

Ocho:
42:57
So I was I was going to ask, basically, I do not know anything about Savage Worlds. What do what what is, like, the the primary difference between 5e and Savage Worlds?

Brandon:
43:10
Savage Worlds is is always And it fills itself, is fast, fun, and furious.

JimmyTheRabbit:
43:16
Okay.

Brandon:
43:16
And when you do combat in the game, a a session of combat in d and d might take 2 hours. Mhmm. A strong, heavy, long combat in savage worlds might take 20 to 30 minutes. Oh, wow. Do all the same amount of action.

Brandon:
43:31
The action economy in Savage Worlds is like, you know, you could do up to 3 actions in a turn at your first level of a character. There's penalties for it but you can do it. Okay. And it is a generic system that uses that base foundation so that you can just pick what they call edges and hindrances that influence the build of your character along with your skills that you pick. So you can build almost any type of character by picking these different edges, hindrances, and skills.

Brandon:
43:58
And then, hey, I'm gonna be a fighter. So I'm gonna take the sweep action because I can hit several characters at once. I'm gonna I'm gonna make sure I put a lot of, few points in my my fighting skill. You know? You but you could also be a a spell casting fighter.

Brandon:
44:10
It doesn't matter. The system lets you build everything.

Ocho:
44:13
Okay.

Brandon:
44:15
So it handles it pretty well.

2TonWaffle:
44:18
And I think with that system, a lot of people would be interested in that because you don't have the time constraints of, I gotta make sure I'm building a campaign that is, like, 2 days' worth. We can do something that's within an hour or 2 or whatever. This is a small little get together and just play through that.

Brandon:
44:39
Most of my Savage World sessions have a what I like to when I run a session, I like to plan out what I call, like, the non combat social encounter. That's usually like a smaller encounter. And then I have a small combat encounter that the players are just going to stop all over the bad guys for usually let them feel bad ass. Oh, yeah. Because you should Yeah.

Ocho:
44:57
I I

Brandon:
44:57
had that would always beat us down. We never got to feel powerful. Like, well, that's boring. I'm supposed to be a hero. When do I get to feel like a hero?

Brandon:
45:04
So I always have that section. Then you have the bigger the meat of the investigation, the story, the plot, whatever it's supposed to go on, and then the big set piece combat at the end. And so whereas d and d, you're only gonna have 1 combat in the session. And I could do all that in a 4 hour arc every time like clockwork and have a full complete story every time. No problem.

Ocho:
45:25
Okay. And it's it's mostly because that combat you said runs so much faster. Yeah. That that's been one of the one of the things of, right, Dungeons and Dragons, 5 e from what I from what I know about it, but even just Dungeons and Dragons in general, is that it's almost like time slows down. Like, it's a it's it's everything's going at normal speed, then combat starts, and it's like like, it slows down, and so everything becomes very and, yeah, you could go through each round is 6 is supposed to be 6 seconds, but it takes depending on how many, you know, how many players you have or how many whatever.

Ocho:
46:01
It could take you a good 5, 10 minutes to get through a single round. You know? At least

Brandon:
46:05
It it again, it depends on the players, of course. Some players are faster and are more prepared and more paying attention. Even a savage roast comic can run more than 30 minutes if you have highly inexperienced new players as they're learning their stuff. Sure. It's not perfect.

Brandon:
46:18
No. It's not I'm not saying one's better than the other, but definitely in general, one is faster than the other. Faster than

Ocho:
46:23
the other. Yeah. Okay. And I could see where that would be more beneficial because in this instance, it acts more like the like the video game does because, you know, combats in in video games are

Brandon:
46:36
It can be more intense a lot quicker.

Ocho:
46:38
Right. Yeah.

Brandon:
46:39
The big difference is Savage World uses an exploding dice mechanic. I don't know if you're familiar with that term at all.

Ocho:
46:46
Not at all. No.

Brandon:
46:48
So so you're you're rolling your skill check. Okay? And the average skill check-in in savage worlds is a 4 plus modifiers for many things. Like, you're trying to shoot a bad guy. He's farther away.

Brandon:
46:59
Oh, that's plus 2 because he's so far away. It's dark. It's a lot of plus 2. You need to hit a target number of 8. Well, you have a d six skill.

Brandon:
47:06
How can you possibly hit a target number of 8? If you roll a 6 on your 6 sider, it explodes. You roll it again. If you roll 6 again, you roll it again. And you keep adding as long as they they say ace or they hit they roll the max on the dice, you can roll it again.

Ocho:
47:19
Oh, okay.

Brandon:
47:21
Sort of

JimmyTheRabbit:
47:21
like the

Ocho:
47:23
the the crit, if you will.

Brandon:
47:24
Yeah. Essentially like that. And and that can also you can also do that with damage. Mhmm. So it's a wound based system versus a hit point based system.

Brandon:
47:33
You have 3 wounds for the average, person, a hero. Bad guys can go from 1 to whatever is appropriate depending on type they are. So I could literally roll enough damage to 1 shot a dragon. It's very unlikely, but it's possible. There's ways to mitigate that and control that with the player.

Brandon:
47:51
You know, it makes it doesn't happen. But in theory, in in in practice, you can sometimes hit a really crazy number and just knock something out right away. Also, it can also happen to the players. And, again, because the players can't die, I don't have to worry about that holding that back. So I'll let you know, I'm rolling behind the screen going, oh, that's gonna kill the player.

Brandon:
48:10
I'm like, no. Let it happen. Let's see what happens when they make their choice of which way to go.

Ocho:
48:13
Yeah. So And that's what again, that's what what makes secret world just in in general that idea that, yeah, you can't can't really die. But Yeah. I mean, it it'll

2TonWaffle:
48:28
It's not as punishing.

Ocho:
48:30
Right. Yeah.

Brandon:
48:30
You could be in prison for life for eternity. You can be, tortured for eternity. I mean, you can you can lose your character if you eventually go to the one side or the other to where your character essentially is not yours anymore. So your character doesn't die, but if you do make those choices enough, you lose your character. So there is a Yeah.

Brandon:
48:48
Loss of the character. Yeah. And I think the important thing is when you play the game and something I wanna look, I'm looking to make sure I add to the savage rules as I thought about it more because we can still write into the book now if we want to, is to really express that these players, generally speaking, depending on how the GM wants to write the story, is you're you're new. You have a but you're not alive and can't die for a long time. You should have attachments in the world and things that you care about.

Brandon:
49:15
And, you know, you have your favorite cheeseburger joint. Do you want it to be blown up or destroyed? You know, do you want to, you know, your mom lives down the street. You know, you're not always the orphan who has no one who cares about them. Your character share bonds to the world to make it important.

Ocho:
49:36
Wait. Wait. Why you're fighting this. Every hero isn't isn't an orphan that has had their parents killed in some horrible

Brandon:
49:43
accident sometime? And they have no friends, and they don't care about anything, and nothing can threaten them. Because players will oftentimes try to insulate themselves from any chance of being threatened, codge how how you say that word? Cajoled? I don't know.

Brandon:
49:57
Cajoled. Cajoled.

2TonWaffle:
49:59
I always say

Brandon:
50:00
that word wrong. And pushed into a direction. I think that's actually a mistake.

Ocho:
50:04
Mhmm.

Brandon:
50:05
It's not fun. You think it is. Nothing can make me do anything. Great. Nothing can make you do anything.

Brandon:
50:10
There's no reason for you to play this game.

Ocho:
50:13
Yeah. You're like

JimmyTheRabbit:
50:13
So my character sits at home and plays video games.

Ocho:
50:18
It's the it's the idea of the

JimmyTheRabbit:
50:20
appreciate it.

Ocho:
50:21
I'm sure you've heard of the, you know, the actor, like, the actor of who goes like, what is my what is my motivation? But that is exactly kind of it. That's sort of the point that you're making is that the the the players have to have some motivation.

JimmyTheRabbit:
50:36
Okay. To be fair, that's what that's why you kill a parent.

Ocho:
50:39
That's It's

JimmyTheRabbit:
50:40
a whole thing. It's supposed to be

Brandon:
50:41
the motivation. Supposed to be, but they generally use as the excuse for I want to go out and get revenge. Okay. And and

JimmyTheRabbit:
50:49
Right. So you

2TonWaffle:
50:49
get your revenge. What's next?

Brandon:
50:51
What's next? You have a plan?

Ocho:
50:54
You get And, of course more revenge.

2TonWaffle:
50:57
Every hero, like, the or the origin story is like, oh, they they made their own suit, but it looks like it's, like, high-tech. It was yeah. You're not gonna get this be getting material from Joanne and on your sewing machine.

Brandon:
51:10
Yeah. Yeah. The, Spider Man soda suit looked like garbage at first, at least. But, you know, he eventually became a master seamstress.

JimmyTheRabbit:
51:22
Seems to be a master you as you do.

Brandon:
51:24
As you do. It's fine.

JimmyTheRabbit:
51:25
This is how murder hobos are born. It creates more murder hobos when they kill parents.

Ocho:
51:31
But isn't that sort of sort of what you do in video games too is, there's a there's a lot of games that is like, yeah, you you can become a master seamstress eventually.

Brandon:
51:39
If you want to. Yes.

Ocho:
51:40
If you want to. Yeah.

Brandon:
51:42
Put skill points into it. There's The other thing I like about the what we do with the savage rules is because a lot of people said, you know, they wanted to feel more like the video game. And doing 5 e, there was not, we weren't gonna rebuild the entire rule set of 5 e. The whole point was to make it what people would recognize and could play Yeah. From 5 e.

Brandon:
52:01
Because the way Savage Worlds is, it was very easy to build something that is reminiscent of. We did not, again, try to, like, force mold the entire video game over the RPG. That's not gonna ever be a good idea. Not for mechanical not for mechanical build. But what we were able to do is we built the power cards for savage worlds where if you have a pistol, here's the list of powers you can access.

Ocho:
52:27
Okay.

Brandon:
52:28
If you have your sword, here's your list of powers. You can and there we refer to them as conduits for your power. And so if you eventually, as you level up or advance your characters to turn in savage worlds, you can learn more conduits. So, hey. I started off with the sword and the hammer.

Brandon:
52:44
Great. But now I want pistol. Great. You can only ever access 2 conduits or whichever ones you can hold in your hand at the same time at once. So if you wanna switch it out the game.

Brandon:
52:53
Yeah. There you go. That's that's again kind of we why we did that. You can switch up and say, well, I dropped my sword and I grabbed my pistol, and now you can access those powers. And we printed them on playing cards.

Brandon:
53:05
I have a a set I built just to see for how it would work, and they're about playing card sized. And, so the the character sheet for, Savage World has the archetype. Like, say, we did the punisher archetype. It already has the first two conduits that you start with printed on there, but then you can just lay a card over those literally the size of the same exact size of the actual playing card and go, oh, I switched my weapon. You can just read that when you switch.

Ocho:
53:30
Okay.

Brandon:
53:31
So it feels like you're swapping out your power slots on your toolbar a little bit without trying too hard to make it exactly like a power slot far across the bar. So

2TonWaffle:
53:42
Right.

Ocho:
53:43
It's like, no. I've heard that, D and D 5th edition is sort of, like, the most video game ish version of D and D, and that's another reason why some people don't have a affinity for it or some some people are like like, oh, no. You need to go back and play, like, 3rd edition or something, you know, for the for whatever that there's, like, oh, 5th 5th edition is too too gamey in a sense.

Brandon:
54:08
So I heard that 5th edition is greatly streamlined and simplified. For some people, too simple. For other peoples, it's still too tactical and too miniatures based. But I've always heard 4th edition was the most video game like.

Ocho:
54:22
4th edition. Okay.

Brandon:
54:23
That's what I'd always heard, but that it it really seemed like 4th edition tried to, Kinder Mage is a good friend of mine. I'm a smack her on later.

JimmyTheRabbit:
54:34
Doctor Octopus. Multi armed character to use multiple condiments. I just wanna know what happens if I hold, like, 7 swords at the same time and then drop upon somebody.

Brandon:
54:45
Well, if you drop

Ocho:
54:46
some 1 sword. Right?

Brandon:
54:47
So it might hurt them, but I

JimmyTheRabbit:
54:48
was just holding all 7. Can I activate all 7 and then just go? No.

Brandon:
54:55
We're not doing that.

JimmyTheRabbit:
54:57
I mean just gonna bear hug

Brandon:
55:00
bear hug a bunch of swords. Like, I have multiple swords.

Ocho:
55:02
My swords. Yeah. To put them together with zip ties.

Brandon:
55:05
Unfortunately, the mechanics of the game would would even of just the basic game without all the stuff we did to, you know, make it work for secret world is not a would not allow that. You could take 3 actions in a game and you you you and if your fur the the simple point if you do 3 actions, you're gonna be at minus 4 to do your actions. So if you could do 8, you'd be at minus 16. You'd never succeed. So

JimmyTheRabbit:
55:28
No. Exploding dice. I'll get there.

Brandon:
55:30
Yeah. It it could happen. It's possible.

Ocho:
55:34
If anyone would find a way, it's Jimmy.

Brandon:
55:36
Yeah. It's enough.

JimmyTheRabbit:
55:38
Oh, no. I'll lose forever, but one time. What time? I mean, like, a, you know, 6 month trial session, I'll actually do something. It's like day to day.

Brandon:
55:48
A 12 hour game session until it happens.

Ocho:
55:51
That's right. Love it. Love that love that determination.

JimmyTheRabbit:
55:56
That's how I do when I play games. I just run at them and You throw yourself against them.

Ocho:
56:02
Yeah.

Brandon:
56:03
I know,

Ocho:
56:04
Play is relative.

Brandon:
56:06
We have the 3, you know, the the faction covers coming that I I ordered them expedited shipping because, obviously, I wanna both deliver the server as quickly as possible. And they they should be here, I'm hoping, next week, but there's no guarantee of it could be the week thereafter. So that's about where we're looking for that. And once that happens, I'm gonna start. I'm already going this week, and I'm sitting down and building out the, how I can deliver the batches, you know, when the time comes.

Brandon:
56:35
And so that we can knock it out probably in about a 48 hour period of receiving the the proofs where I can just sit down on Saturday, Sunday just to make sure everyone gets their stuff. And I'm sure some people will still be missing. I'll have to get those individuals because no matter what, there's there's people who didn't know they had to have a drive through RPG account even though we said you that was how it was gonna be delivered. I think they didn't understand that, which is fine. Like, I get, like, if they didn't know, they didn't know.

Brandon:
56:59
Yeah. So there's those things we'll have to fix, but we should pretty much have it out ASAP after that. So

Ocho:
57:05
And the idea that basically, that's you you know that in this sort of project, like like, I know that I have signed up, and I've I've backed a lot of things on Kickstarter over the years. And there's just a bunch that I haven't, you know, checked up on in a long time. And who knows if it's like they asked all kinds of questions, and I'm like, oh, maybe I should get around to actually answering them. You know? It's a Yeah.

Ocho:
57:33
It's yeah. And so, also, you're dealing with people who don't don't or aren't, paying the the most attention to their Kickstarter emails. Mhmm.

Brandon:
57:46
I have been told by some people this was a statement someone's told me that some people turn off their emails, and they don't like to and they turn off their alerts for the what's the general message we do out the, announcements or whatever, the updates. And I'm like, okay. If you turn that off and you turn off your emails and then you say, but I didn't get the information.

Ocho:
58:15
Yeah. You you did. It's

2TonWaffle:
58:16
all in you. Yeah.

Brandon:
58:18
We'll still fix it when you finally figure out that you didn't get the information. Yes. But please don't be mad at us because you chose not to get the information. I mean

2TonWaffle:
58:25
Yes.

Brandon:
58:25
I'm not gonna say, hey. We're not gonna give it to you because you just figured it out. I mean but there there's also some people that were for example, that said, I didn't understand it was a print on demand project. We're not gonna go back to all that again, but, you know, that was well shared, several times. And we've we have changed the Kickstarter for Savage Worlds has every single tier says, it's a print on demand project.

Brandon:
58:50
You will pay for this. You'll pay for printing and shipping after the project. So if they don't read it there in this case, then I'll be like, I really tried. The fact is gonna already have it in there, and it's gonna be underneath every there's a little asterisk under every visual of the package, what you can get. Like, you need to refer to this so you know what you're getting.

Brandon:
59:08
I don't want anyone to feel like, you know, it was never our intention to make anyone feel cheated. Absolutely not.

Ocho:
59:13
Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon:
59:14
We want everyone to feel whenever we get a good product, I mean, I'll tell you right now. I think this product could be better, but that's because I will never be happy with the product I make.

Ocho:
59:23
Oh, yeah. That's the first one. They say that that's that's, yeah, universal, that that's sort of like if you're if you're striving for 100%, then you'll never necessarily be happy with it. So striving for more, like, you know, 90% or 80%, something that's a little more depending upon the project, you know, something that's a little more, understandable.

JimmyTheRabbit:
59:45
Strive for a 100.

Ocho:
59:47
Right.

JimmyTheRabbit:
59:47
But Yeah. But with with deadlines. So you're just like, okay. Well, this is, like, if we got it to 95, that's as good as it's gonna get by this date. Like What

Ocho:
59:57
does that mean? So is it, time, money, what does it what does it say? Time, money, quality? Yeah. Pick 2.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:00:06
Oh, yeah. You can

Brandon:
01:00:07
have it you can have it good, fast, or, it was good.

Ocho:
01:00:14
Good and fast,

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:00:14
but it

Ocho:
01:00:14
won't be cheap.

Brandon:
01:00:16
Yeah. Good, fast, or

Ocho:
01:00:17
cheap.

Brandon:
01:00:17
Pick 2.

2TonWaffle:
01:00:19
You you can have

Ocho:
01:00:20
it good and fast, but it won't be cheap. Or you can have it good and cheap, but it won't be fast. And You can

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:00:27
have it fast and cheap.

Ocho:
01:00:29
You can have it fast and cheap, but it won't be good.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:00:31
Right. That's debatable.

Brandon:
01:00:35
Well, I I mean, if we had you know, if this was my only job, and everyone on the team, this was their only job, we had a budget from some large company that said make this, And we could sit around working on this 8, you know, 40, 50 hours a week till we were happy with it. It still wouldn't be perfect, but, yes, it would be better because we would have that kind of budget and time to put into it. And, you know, there are people who are like, well, I wish you had made custom spells. First of all, that was never part of the project's intention. We never stated that it was.

Ocho:
01:01:05
You're like, we're not changing this the spell book for d and d.

Brandon:
01:01:08
Right. That I understand why people want it. They wanted to, like, make it more just like the game. I mean, we couldn't. There's no way that we would have built that rule set and done that with the time we had.

Brandon:
01:01:20
I mean, even even Sola Kolonger took as it was. Mhmm. If we had to build an entire custom rule set up, you know, 3 years from now, you woulda had that project and we woulda run out of money, and it wouldn't have been done. Because nobody's working on

Ocho:
01:01:32
a wall. Still, as as DMs and whatnot, you could just turn around and say, okay. Well, this power like, you know, you you could take this the setup that you've already done and say, have have this have the, you know, bless, something like that, like a classic Yeah. Bless. You could just say, instead that that is just, like, as a DM, you could be like, that's Gaia's blessing.

Ocho:
01:01:53
Does the same exact stuff, you know, as the bless spell, essentially. But that's also a depending upon how comfortable players are with with with, DMs are with changing their own stuff around

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:02:08
or

Ocho:
01:02:08
doing that. Again, you can do that. You can do that. You could just change the name of stuff. It doesn't matter.

Ocho:
01:02:13
The effect is exactly the same, and it's the effects that are all balanced.

Brandon:
01:02:17
So interesting enough, 2 things. Like, one, I get where exactly what you said is true. Mhmm. And I don't I don't think it's good game design to sell a product and say to the people I'm not saying you're wrong. This is what you can do at home and every GM can and should do.

Brandon:
01:02:32
Mhmm. It's not good on the on the creator's part to say, if you don't like it, that's how you can fix it. For us, we should try and make something that fills the need instead of saying, hey. By the way, we made a product, but you're gonna have to do most of the work at home to make it work the way you want it to.

Ocho:
01:02:46
Right. Right. Yeah.

Brandon:
01:02:47
That being said, we said this is what we're making. This is why we're doing it this way, and this is what we can put the time into.

Ocho:
01:02:55
Mhmm.

Brandon:
01:02:55
Interesting enough, on the other hand, though, Savage Worlds actually has the way you get powers. It specifically says you have to give them a trapping or label how they look and work in your world. The damage is the same. You I have a power called bolt. They I don't.

Brandon:
01:03:10
Savage worlds has a power called bolt. You know, the mage should say bolt at an enemy. It could be a ice bolt. It could be a fireball. It could be a kinetic energy, but if he was the player fireball.

Brandon:
01:03:21
I didn't I did I stutter? I cast fireball. It's my wife's favorite spell if she plays that. She's I said, you're gonna really cast fireball? She's like, did I stutter?

Brandon:
01:03:32
She's gonna laugh with the fireball.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:03:34
Point of fact point of fact, the fireball spell is called fireball in Sega World. So You There's no need to rename that particular

Brandon:
01:03:44
that one.

Ocho:
01:03:45
Yeah.

Brandon:
01:03:45
But Savage World says you have to pick the trap in it. The damage is still 3 d 6 or 2 d 6 for the attack, whatever it is. But it matters if you say it's ice ice bolt because then it stays that. And then if you attack a creature that's immune to cold, that creature may be immune to it. Right.

Brandon:
01:04:04
But you have to define it. What we did with because it's the secret world, we wanted to try to get it some of the flavors. We define the trappings for the powers. Obviously, you can change that and if you want. We we tried to we built the archetypes.

Brandon:
01:04:20
We said, what sounds about right? Well, the elementals got some fire powers because it seems fitting

Ocho:
01:04:25
or, you

Brandon:
01:04:26
know, whatever whatever is appropriate. The, Blood Magic comes out with a sickly green light because that just sounded cool, and and it gives it a a certain look. You know, we didn't try to match colors to the video game. That's insane. That's not gonna happen.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:04:40
No.

Brandon:
01:04:40
No. Every description like that because they they have light effects and they're crazy stuff. But we we tried to give a theme to those powers. So again, it feels like it matches. Doing that with d and d would be, completely a rewrite.

Brandon:
01:04:56
Is this a GM discussion stream?

Ocho:
01:04:59
I think I think, got there came in a little, a little later. Got, we are talking with Brandon from Star Anvil Studios in case anyone else is coming a little later. We're talking with Brandon from Star Anvil Studios who is releasing the, secret world tabletop RPG, and so we're discussing all the intricacies of that. And they have just released the, the final PDF to all Kickstarter backers. So now Wait.

Ocho:
01:05:22
If you are a backer. Screen. There you go.

2TonWaffle:
01:05:26
Oh my gosh.

Ocho:
01:05:27
So pretty. So pretty.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:05:30
Holy moly. That is that is a thick book. I like it.

Brandon:
01:05:34
It is. And if you could kill from a

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:05:36
weapon to the dragon? Nice.

Brandon:
01:05:40
Not on purpose. No. That's how dragons roll. Better.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:05:44
That's how dragons roll.

Brandon:
01:05:46
Chaotically, I open to it. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Same price.

Brandon:
01:05:49
This book, final price on drive thru RPG, I haven't a 100% decided on yet, because we're looking I gotta look at the final cost. It's probably

Ocho:
01:06:00
It is 386 pages.

Brandon:
01:06:02
Yeah. We gotta look because in in

2TonWaffle:
01:06:04
A dollar a page.

Brandon:
01:06:06
Drive thru RPG knocks out a good 30, 35% off of whatever you, whatever we make. And so we also have to pay fun come off of what do we make. So we're making less than half of whatever we're not making the money for printing. That doesn't come to us. So we gotta market to a price.

Brandon:
01:06:21
I I think we're gonna be looking at, I don't know. I'll it's gonna be more it's gonna be around 50 or more. We're we're we'll have a final price between 5060.

Ocho:
01:06:31
I feel like that's fair, though. That's how that seems like a fair price.

Brandon:
01:06:34
For a almost 400 page book that you could you use other like, to say that you need no other book is true. You don't need any other book to play.

Ocho:
01:06:43
Yeah.

Brandon:
01:06:44
But would you want other books to play? Well, sure. You'll want you could the amount of monsters we got in here is a good chunk. I mean, yeah. There's there's a good

Ocho:
01:06:51
Oh, you want yeah. The the bestiary and

Brandon:
01:06:53
You might want a bestiary. Like, you might want to

Ocho:
01:06:56
power cards. Yeah.

Brandon:
01:06:58
Because it's d d, you might use other classes from other other books they have to say. That seems to fit the secret world for me, and they may use that. So so, yeah, it's it's around there. Yeah. D and D did raise their books.

Brandon:
01:07:11
They raised their price their books to $60 going forward. So we're still in the price range. So we're not if you didn't know that, new D and D books are not gonna be 50 more. Guys are gonna be 60 because printing has gone up that much in cost. So Everything Strangely enough on.

Ocho:
01:07:25
Yeah.

Brandon:
01:07:26
Them raising their price is actually good for the smaller companies because the smaller companies always feel like we can't raise our price above the price of the big company because it's like, well, you're you're a small company. You're charged as much as as Wizards of the Coast. How dare you?

2TonWaffle:
01:07:40
You're right. Yeah.

Brandon:
01:07:41
What do

2TonWaffle:
01:07:41
I get for that money?

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:07:43
Yeah. Yeah. But that's that's obviously backwards thinking. Right? Because It is.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:07:47
Can afford to soak it. Right? They're they're moving volume. Yeah. I was

Ocho:
01:07:50
gonna say they've got they save on the the printing. They save on all that stuff by basically having all their contracts with the, yeah, their distributors or suppliers, blah blah blah blah.

Brandon:
01:07:59
They have an issue where they don't have enough printers to print other books all at once, which is which is part of why they're breaking up the printing runs from for players GM and bestiary over more time.

Ocho:
01:08:09
Interesting. Okay.

Brandon:
01:08:10
They they they print at such a I I have an idea of, like, what books can get down to because I can choose a couple websites you can look at. They're probably printing books at a cost of, you know, between 4 to $6 a book tops.

Ocho:
01:08:22
Okay.

Brandon:
01:08:23
Print that's print cost. I mean, I they still got delivery, and they still got distribution, other stuff involved in their costs, I'm sure, but they're not hurting for money. They're they're they're No. They're probably they're selling a book for 60. It's probably cost them, like, 10 or $12 to get the whole thing done.

Brandon:
01:08:36
Yeah. And they're selling a 1,000,000 books, and I sold 1900 books. So

2TonWaffle:
01:08:43
No. Absolutely. It kinda equals out.

Brandon:
01:08:45
So Yes. Same. Same.

Ocho:
01:08:47
Yeah. No. I I remember I I worked for, Barnes and Noble in the past, and, yeah, you learn you learn so much about how how book sales actually work and how the the book industry works. And one of the more one of the most surprising one was if a book is on your shelves and it doesn't sell that for the bigger books, for, like, the the hard copy books, you would send them back to the distributor. You know, you'd be like, this didn't sell.

Ocho:
01:09:13
Here you go. You could have the big books back. But the big books have such a low overhead that, a hard cut a hardcover book like, Barnes and Noble made, like, almost nothing off of those hardcover books. They didn't really care. They would always have them, but they didn't really care if you bought the hardcover books.

Ocho:
01:09:34
It was the paperbacks. It's the paperbacks, and it was the, the ones that they printed themselves that were always the big moneymakers. And so when you and so even, like, they would have, like, a whole bunch of paperbacks, and they're like, oh, we'll sell send these back to the distributor. And they're like, don't even bother mailing them because they're so cheap to print.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:09:56
Mhmm.

Ocho:
01:09:56
That it was the idea of when you when a book doesn't sell, you rip off the cover and just send them back the cover.

Brandon:
01:10:04
Yeah.

Ocho:
01:10:05
And so, like yeah. Like, you started learning all stuff about the the the the how printing industry is working. What are you like? This is not anywhere near what I would expect it to be. And so, yeah, it's sort of sort of on that same that same level with, with these with these books as well, kind of.

Ocho:
01:10:24
I feel I feel like these books are a little different. Like Well You know?

Brandon:
01:10:30
First of all, you know, with these books, if if I we want to transition to in the future, and I don't know when that will happen if we depends on the level of success we have as we go forward into a doing print runs.

Ocho:
01:10:43
Mhmm.

Brandon:
01:10:44
And we we already have a publisher that we want to work with, that we've talked to, that we can work with. And and part of the reason for doing 2 different Kickstarters that are trying to do, like, one for Savage Worlds and for this is the Savage Worlds book obviously cost us less to make. It's already written. The law doesn't change. Mhmm.

Brandon:
01:11:01
Right. Yeah. All that's good.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:11:03
Trade Yeah.

Brandon:
01:11:03
Same trade dress, same art. When we make money on this, we can use that to apply towards future projects and stuff. So picking your race as d and d does, you're picking your faction. That's more the that that has more influence. And and that makes sense to break it down that way because that's the most important choice you make pretty much as a character other than your your class or your archetype or whatever you wanna call it is your faction.

Brandon:
01:11:40
And then, you know, how you experience the game tactically, basically. Because let's face it. People talk a lot about how amazing the puzzles and stuff in this game are, but there's a whole lot of killing too. So Oh, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of fighting.

Brandon:
01:11:54
Yeah. So that that's that's one of your primary interactions with the game. So

Ocho:
01:11:58
Mhmm. I mean, yeah, that sort of com combat is the way things go in in, like, a grand majority of video games. I did

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:12:08
do a pacifist playthrough of the game.

Ocho:
01:12:11
You did. You can. Yeah. It's possible.

Brandon:
01:12:15
Good luck with that. I would not try to do that.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:12:18
I know you would.

Ocho:
01:12:19
Too much Jimmy has.

Brandon:
01:12:20
I'm not saying. I'm saying enjoy is all I'm saying. I would Yes.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:12:24
I I will say what a funny thing I I found out during that run is that you can the dance emotes don't get canceled by getting hit. So I was able to dance during most of the fights. That's amazing, actually. So, like, when I was fighting when I was fighting Mara, the vampire queen, I was just dancing around, and it looked like my character was, like, slapping her in the face. I was doing, like, a hand movements while just reflecting damage back.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:12:53
It was that that part was pretty good.

Brandon:
01:12:57
Wow. It's a new archetype we have to come up with, the pacifist dancing archetype.

Ocho:
01:13:03
If you if you haven't met Jimmy, Jimmy here is no. You've met Jimmy. But,

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:13:06
I think

Ocho:
01:13:07
you've met him

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:13:08
before. Yeah.

Ocho:
01:13:09
Yes. Jimmy is, is is sort of sort of known for coming up with the most imaginative ways to play secret world legends. Just and and, like like like, what playthrough are you going through now, Jimmy?

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:13:26
Lights out.

Ocho:
01:13:28
Yes.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:13:28
Fox made me a mod, so all the lighting in the game all the normal lighting in the game is off. Gosh. So I think certain spotlights and certain things still illuminate.

Ocho:
01:13:41
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:13:41
I'm mostly using the ground AOE effects, weapon effects as, like, a sort of a sonar. Like, it's like, the the AOE from, like, smacking the ground effect goes out and, like, hits the walls and goes up so I can kinda see what's going on.

Ocho:
01:13:58
So you're basically yeah. You're playing in almost total darkness.

Brandon:
01:14:02
Yeah. Yeah. It definitely would not be a way I would try to experience the game.

Ocho:
01:14:06
Exactly. Yes.

Brandon:
01:14:07
Well, someone is color blind. I'm not making it harder on me than it is.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:14:11
In the one prior, like, a couple months ago, I did death race where we had a mod that made me always be running. And and then if I stood still, after 10 seconds, I would die. So Oh, wow. So, during that, I was in the Egyptian part, like, under under the pyramid where you're running with a torch. I somehow dropped the torch, but I was running and couldn't, like, stop moving.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:14:40
So I just started spamming my ability to, like, sort of see the walls, And that's what made me think of and literally, like, I think last week, I was like, remember he's like, you know what? That'd be a cool way to just do the game. And then I hit a fox. He was like, hey. So do you think you can make me a mod that, like, just gets rid of a mod?

2TonWaffle:
01:15:03
Everything off.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:15:04
And then here we are.

Ocho:
01:15:06
I'm glad I'm glad that Fox is there too to for your

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:15:09
Fox is my enabler.

Ocho:
01:15:10
Whims. Yeah. He's your enabler.

Brandon:
01:15:13
So someone asked if the Phoenicians or Orochi factions are choices to play as far as your starting factions. No. They're not. And that's simply because, again, room in the book and time to build all that. They said bless you,

Ocho:
01:15:25
love you.

Brandon:
01:15:27
It's my wife. She didn't hear. She got her headphones on. Her allergies are killing her. So, yeah, we we couldn't do the we do we don't wanna try and cover everything in one book.

Brandon:
01:15:38
It's already just so big. We people are like, are you gonna have combat rules for vehicles? Well, as cool as that might be for some people, how many times has vehicle combat been important to you in the secret world so far?

Ocho:
01:15:51
Mhmm.

2TonWaffle:
01:15:51
Especially as you're as a b, you you can pretty much go anywhere at any time. You don't need to, like, hop on a plane.

Ocho:
01:15:57
And even if that were to empty, like, that's not a book that you find in the original, you know, set. That's that's a separate book you purchase. You know?

Brandon:
01:16:05
Yeah. That would be it's like anything. Even even the d and d book has, like, rules for ship combats in a separate book, Because you can only put so much in one book. I mean, this is a huge book which has a lot of stuff. It's the foundation to build on, and same thing with the savage worlds book will be for the savage worlds version.

Brandon:
01:16:25
From there, we can expand to build the world, add cool things. I think the only thing I feel like we missed out on for, the Savage Worlds book looking back at it, and it's not done, so I'm gonna see if I can fit this in there, is, using some kind of talisman or something to, you know, create armor for your character. Because you're not really walking around in full plate armor or anything in this game. You know, it's not a thing. So, there's a couple little tweaks I'm trying to get in there.

Brandon:
01:16:51
We have time to work on it. We've got the savage world's version, I think, is, like, 85% done already.

Ocho:
01:16:58
Okay. Okay.

Brandon:
01:17:00
You

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:17:00
know, that actually reminds me like that was one of the things I always found interesting about Secret World even from the beginning is most video games, you have to deal with the I found a piece of armor, and it's better, but it's ugly as sin. I don't wanna use it. And then more modern games will have, like well, you can just uncheck it so it doesn't show. Right. Right?

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:17:20
Or you can or you can mod you can make some kind of mod. So, like, you can use that piece, but it looks like something else.

Brandon:
01:17:27
Right. Because you have your cosmetic appearance versus your actual armor.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:17:30
Yeah. Mhmm. Whereas state of world was like, oh, no. These are talismans. It's not it's not armor.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:17:37
You have a necklace and a ring and a bracelet and a belt. Like right? Like, you you don't you can wear whatever the hell you want because that's not where the, empowerment's coming from. The empowerment's coming from this array of, like, trinkets or Mhmm. You just could be flare buttons on your vest.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:17:58
It doesn't really matter. Right? They're imbued with something.

Ocho:
01:18:02
Is it, like, one of the one of the effigies that you could have, basically, like a like a cell phone cable wrapped around, like,

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:18:11
like, this is a headphone. Of the, elemental focus.

Ocho:
01:18:14
Yeah. Yeah. An elemental focus.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:18:16
Right? Focuses is is like a like a USB cable looking thing.

Ocho:
01:18:20
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:18:22
Just got a piece of USB cable on my belt. Let's me You need to wrap

Ocho:
01:18:26
around this this piece of, you know, this, this hand grip thing, and there you go. That's my focus.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:18:33
You don't need to have all blues before Egypt. It might be easier for you. It's certainly not necessary. Sam.

Ocho:
01:18:43
I mean, this is also coming from you.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:18:46
Well, I'm just look. You don't you don't need anything to beat the game. To beat the story of the game, you can do it with almost, like, literally nothing.

Ocho:
01:18:54
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:18:55
Just take some perseverance. I would say normal player is probably clean gear. But, yeah, you don't need to be in all blues.

Ocho:
01:19:04
You don't have to. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:19:09
That's something that have the right the right pieces and may and probably, like, the right passives and glyphs. Like, that's probably more important than having all of a certain color, like, upgrade. What's more important is having your glyph layout correct and passives upgrading the right passives.

Ocho:
01:19:28
Now, Brandon, what do you think of, because this this this thought, keeps coming to mind. And that is a the idea that, yes, players are, expecting, like because because secret world is so like has such a such a passionate fan base to it and because secret world has that we're basically in in the game itself, we're sort of clamoring for new content. So we tend to latch on to projects of people who are like, I'm creating something for the game. It's like, that's that's amazing. That's amazing.

Ocho:
01:20:06
You're writing a you're writing novels for the game. That's great. You're writing, right tabletop for the game. That's amazing. And so we sort of latch on to these these projects.

Ocho:
01:20:16
But our our passionate tends to be like the people want it the way that they want it. You know, like, people want it a very specific way. And what's in what's in their head? And Right. So have you encountered, like, a whole bunch of issues with people basically basically, like, you know, this isn't this isn't this isn't what I what I imagined it to be.

Ocho:
01:20:39
This isn't, like, you know, like, if I was gonna create a tabletop for it that, you know, like, this isn't this isn't what I wanted. This isn't what I did. Have you encountered a lot of that pushback?

Brandon:
01:20:49
I've had, well, I've had a fair share of people who were expressed their different opinions of how things should be done, some more vehemently than others. Some were polite and just said, I don't like it. Some were like, this is trash. And you know what? They're right as far as they're concerned, and that's all that matters.

Ocho:
01:21:10
Mhmm.

Brandon:
01:21:10
I mean, I get it. It's not what they wanted, but, you know, I don't wanna put too fine a point on it, but then you could make it yourself. And I don't mean that in a rude way. I mean, like, I can only make what I can make. And so

Ocho:
01:21:23
Like, this is this is an effect, a piece of art. This is you know? I mean, it's a it's a game and this and that, but, I mean, well, games are art. But in a way, this is, like, your art.

Brandon:
01:21:32
Yeah. Take take the, systems, for example.

2TonWaffle:
01:21:35
Mhmm.

Brandon:
01:21:36
Dungeon dragons, savage worlds, powered by the apocalypse, cipher, Cephas engine, 2 d 20. I mean, any any other number of systems you can name, open d 6, lots of other systems that exist out there. There's a whole lot more than I just named. And every one of those systems is one that some person thinks would be perfect for this game.

Ocho:
01:21:59
Mhmm.

Brandon:
01:22:00
And every person is right as far as they're concerned.

Ocho:
01:22:04
Yes.

Brandon:
01:22:05
And for them, they can take the lower part and say, hey. Now I have the store in a written section. I mostly agree with your lower. There's a foundation to build from because I can't do 12 systems. I even 2 is a lot to do.

Brandon:
01:22:19
Mhmm. So, you know, yes, there have been people who aren't happy with it or what like I said, one guy's or woman, I don't know, was just whatever the name was on the the email came through said I or the comment was, you know, they really wish we had done custom spells, and I've heard that more than once. And I get it. It's just not practical. It it's it's the amount of money and time it takes to write rules to I mean, the spells in this game already exist.

Brandon:
01:22:48
They've already been tested. Mhmm. If you want me to play test all the rules and start from scratch, build system from scratch, I mean, we could have done a whole bunch more play testing, and, you know, 3, 4 years from now, the book will be done.

Ocho:
01:23:00
Yeah.

Brandon:
01:23:00
You know? So

2TonWaffle:
01:23:01
And then you will have them as complaints like, oh, why is it taking so

Brandon:
01:23:05
long? Yeah. Well, yeah. You're there's always yeah. Good, cheaper, fast.

2TonWaffle:
01:23:08
Always something.

Ocho:
01:23:09
Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon:
01:23:12
But I I get I get that they're not happy with some things, and I I'm totally, I can understand where they're coming from up to the point where they're rude.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:23:21
And then Yeah.

Brandon:
01:23:23
If you express to me, I wish you would have done this. I think it would be better. That's fine. If you started being insulting or attacking someone personally, that's when I just stopped listening because I'm I'm I'm sorry. I can't help you there if you're just gonna be rude.

Brandon:
01:23:37
I mean, again, you could tell me you don't like what I made. That's fine. It's a personal choice.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:23:41
So you I respect that.

Brandon:
01:23:43
I respect that.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:23:44
Mhmm. Even if you want it for a different system. Right? Like, for for me personally, use I think you you would still want the book just because you would then have, like, source material, like, yourself

Ocho:
01:24:01
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:24:02
To then do something with. Because there's a large difference between staring at a blank page and trying to make something versus getting something that you can now see what you want different and do it differently. So even if I like some other system. Right? Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:24:18
I and wanted to run a campaign in a different system. I probably would get the book just to have the source material to be like, okay. I'm gonna do this, but I'm gonna do this part differently in the system. Mhmm. Right?

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:24:31
Could you just bridge it? And I I've known some friends that were, you know, you know, role playing, like, games tabletop games, like, a lot longer than me. I think they've got, like, a library of stuff. I swear to god, some of those books, they either have just for the setting or just for the rule set or you know what I mean? Like, they and they may they may play, like, 2 or 3 of them in a given year, but it's a resource.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:25:00
Right? You're like, oh, I'm gonna pull from this. So But I don't know. I think if someone genuinely is like, oh, I don't want it because it's useless if it's not the system, you're I'm sorry. You're kinda.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:25:12
Like

Brandon:
01:25:12
So you see these bookshelves behind me here? I can't see all of them, but there's about 333 book sets back there like that.

2TonWaffle:
01:25:21
Okay.

Brandon:
01:25:23
They they have 4 shelves in there, and they're not open. But there's about, I don't know, 600 books back there. And that's not that many, maybe. Let's see. 20 a shelf, 4 shelves, 80.

Brandon:
01:25:34
You know? There's, like, 350 books back there. I don't get to play all those books, but, I mean, my, Star Wars rule set is amazing. There's a game by, Free League called, Coriolis. I know they're they're doing a Kickstarter for it right now.

Brandon:
01:25:50
Neat system. All d six based. I read through it and go, oh, space based. I like it. I'm interested.

Brandon:
01:25:57
Let me see what they did. And they had this thing where when you make your characters, you you design your crew. Like, what your your player because you get a spaceship. What are you gonna do together?

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:26:05
Mhmm.

Brandon:
01:26:05
And so that's a neat idea. And I'm doing my Saints and Sinners games. I said, that's a neat way to get the group to pick out what they're going to be. It's kinda like picking a faction. It gives you a purpose.

Brandon:
01:26:15
And so we we you read through these other games and you go, that's a neat idea. How does it apply to the rule set or the setting that I'm doing in? How do I make that work? And so it gives you yeah. For especially for creating games, I can't think of everything on my own.

Brandon:
01:26:30
So many smarter people have already done dozens of things more than me. So I'm just I'm picking picking from that. So a lot of people are gonna pick up the the this 5 ebook and go, hey. Wow. That's a nice big chunky book.

Brandon:
01:26:41
I'll show it off again there. That one

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:26:44
That is a nice picture.

Brandon:
01:26:46
It

Ocho:
01:26:46
is it is a lovely book. That's why yeah. What I

Brandon:
01:26:49
monsters. I'm sorry.

Ocho:
01:26:51
Sorry. My bad. Go ahead.

Brandon:
01:26:53
No. So they can look at the monsters and say, hey. I want those monsters in my game. Well, this monster has this toughness in this game. That's about equal to that, and they can kinda start to get a gauge where they build it from, or they can they can look at the setting and go, okay.

Brandon:
01:27:06
Well, we got all the setting material I wanted here you even if they don't use it all. So, yeah, they can use it as reference for sure. For some people, that'll be exactly what they use for. They've already said so.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:27:15
Yeah. I mean, I but, I mean, to me, like, that's, like, the, I don't know, sort of adult thing to to do is, like, realize that, you know, probably nothing's ever gonna be exactly what you envision in your head, but, like, it's not like, it's still better than not having anything.

Ocho:
01:27:33
It's still yes. I mean, you'll see that in

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:27:36
a lot of detail. Source material always has a value.

Ocho:
01:27:39
Mhmm. You you still

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:27:40
have a lot of questions. Experience with with, like, hardcore tabletop people. Like, even if they're complaining, they probably would still buy the book because you just you just like, oh, I'm just gonna absorb this and add it to the collection of.

Brandon:
01:27:54
So people will complain about something, but then still buy it because they they still want it. They just want it to be their way. And now now they own it. They have the right to complain about it because they paid for it.

Ocho:
01:28:06
I'm just saying, I don't

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:28:07
even want a copy. I just wanna pay you money so I can complain.

Brandon:
01:28:11
That up there. Here's my, this is for the savage worlds. Let me see if I can do that right.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:28:16
Oh, cool.

Ocho:
01:28:18
Now yeah. I you showed you showed that picture, but what is what is that?

Brandon:
01:28:22
So it's a meta currency. In the game, you can say, I got hit for damage, and I don't wanna take that damage. You get 3 to start with, and as you play the game, you can earn more. You could say, well, that didn't really happen. I'm gonna spend a penny and roll my dice and see if that I didn't get hit for that damage.

Brandon:
01:28:36
Or you can say, you know what'd be really cool? I wanna break in that door and you're in a warehouse. I wanna use a crowbar. Is there a crowbar laying around? And GM says, well, there's not, but there can be.

Brandon:
01:28:44
Okay. I'll spend a penny. There was. It was always

Ocho:
01:28:46
a penny. Ah, okay.

Brandon:
01:28:47
It gives you some influence over the the narrative to a degree, to and it can also be spent to gain more power points. If you say, like, my character reaches down deep and still wants to cast that spell even though I'm out of power points, you can spend one of your bennies. So

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:29:03
Okay. Sacrifice my money.

Ocho:
01:29:06
Because you you you said the picture, and I was and at first, I thought, are those drink coasters? It's the first thing that popped to mind. And I was like

Brandon:
01:29:15
Get bigger ones to do that. I was like, no. You're just gonna be dragging the drink coasters.

Ocho:
01:29:20
You're making coasters

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:29:21
in the pog?

2TonWaffle:
01:29:23
A pogs. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:29:23
It's about the size it's about

Brandon:
01:29:24
the size of a pog.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:29:26
That's what kinda like size wise. I don't know what size cups Mikey's using.

Brandon:
01:29:30
Yeah. Shot glasses. Don't ask. 1, 2. So, yeah, these It had been rough week.

Brandon:
01:29:40
These with the with the dragon and and dragons. No. Dragon. Dragons. Oh, no.

Brandon:
01:29:47
The guns. Now the dragon, the Templar, and the Illuminati, I have these so that just when we're playing it at the table at the convention, it just helps thematically do it. They could've just they don't have to have any pattern on them at all. It just looks cool to have Yeah.

2TonWaffle:
01:29:59
The big

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:29:59
deal. That is cool, though.

Brandon:
01:30:00
Mhmm. So ordered the dice too, but they're not here yet. So we'll see if they show up in time.

Ocho:
01:30:05
So And,

2TonWaffle:
01:30:06
go ahead.

Ocho:
01:30:08
Oh, no. I I

Brandon:
01:30:08
I was just gonna say the, the we also have what's called a conviction token in Savage Worlds, and that's, like, the it's the ultimate version of these. And for that, I ordered these little brass, honeycombs.

Ocho:
01:30:19
Oh my gosh. Nice. Can can we see them? Do you have one?

Brandon:
01:30:23
I haven't showed up yet. Ah, they'll be here soon.

Ocho:
01:30:27
A little brass honeycomb.

2TonWaffle:
01:30:29
Soon, TM.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:30:29
I'll be on you.

Brandon:
01:30:30
Soon. Definitely trademarked.

Ocho:
01:30:35
That's been trademarked for a while. Yep. Yep. By Funko. So so right now, we have currently, we have the the final PDF has been put out, and that has been given to all backers.

Ocho:
01:30:49
So what is next in line for, like, what what should we expect a little further down the road? We have we have the final PDF in hand. What is what is coming next?

Brandon:
01:31:05
Next thing is gonna be delivery of everything. To every once. Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:31:09
Yeah. Yeah. That's Okay.

Brandon:
01:31:10
To constantly keep sending out and then have people say what got missed and then have to answer a 100 emails. Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:31:16
You know,

Brandon:
01:31:16
for those that aren't getting it for whatever reason, that would just be I just I it would just bog it down. So the best thing for me to do is gonna be get everything.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:31:24
Mhmm.

Brandon:
01:31:25
Send it all out and then fix whoever didn't get it. That way, I'm not doing this for the next 3 months because I can't. Because we we do have to do other products and we

2TonWaffle:
01:31:35
have to go. Yeah.

Brandon:
01:31:36
Just can't. So, I mean, I wanna get it delayed. Plus, everyone needs to get their stuff, and the fastest way to do that is to do a major delivery, get it all done, and then fix whoever got missed for whatever technical reason and be done with it so that everyone has their stuff. And that's gonna be the most efficient way to do it. Fixing every single person individually over time, you know, at the beginning before I've done the major delivery, which might fix a lot of problems.

Brandon:
01:32:00
Would just bog me down for the next I don't know. I wouldn't sleep for the next 2 weeks like I did for the 1st week and a half of the Kickstarter.

Ocho:
01:32:06
No. I bet. Yeah.

Brandon:
01:32:08
Yeah. I was learning how to deal with the negativity that came from some people for the 1st Kickstarter, and I was just up all night checking my messages and trying to trying to make it work. Now I've just learned to

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:32:18
Tune it out.

Brandon:
01:32:20
Use that.

2TonWaffle:
01:32:21
Completely ignore them.

Brandon:
01:32:23
Well, not that either, but

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:32:24
you're not completely either. Yeah.

2TonWaffle:
01:32:25
Well, then you do a quick perusal. It's like, yep. Okay. Who

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:32:28
am I to do now?

Ocho:
01:32:31
Yeah. The idea that even even in some people's harshest criticism, there is still nuggets of, okay. I could see, you know Yeah. Sort of sort of taking someone's words and shifting them around, imagining that they are said in a much more polite term or a much more polite way.

Brandon:
01:32:47
And I try really hard.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:32:49
You should. Some people are just assholes.

Brandon:
01:32:52
I didn't say that.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:32:54
Well, it's the Internet. So I mean, we know.

Ocho:
01:32:56
You know, no one is surprised by this fact. Okay.

Brandon:
01:33:00
Some people are less than kind.

Ocho:
01:33:03
Yeah. Yeah.

Brandon:
01:33:06
I just want you know, I just the biggest thing I think if people would understand, like, I don't expect people to say whatever you do is okay because you're new, but I am new. I've been at this for about 5 years now, learned a lot. We've we've done 1, 2, 3 you know, did a small, like, 5 page thing, then I did a couple 30 page things, and then we did this. Mhmm. And I learned a lot.

Brandon:
01:33:27
Like, I think part of the problem might be is that, with the backer kit, I don't think we included a drop down menu to say, what's your email for drive through RPG? And so I think that might be worth we may not have got some of the emails that we need to get. Mhmm. So in the next one, there's gonna be a drop down. This is a POD delivery project through DriveThrpg.

Brandon:
01:33:49
If you don't have an account, go make one, then come back and answer this with the email you want this sent to. I mean, that's just gonna be done so that we can make sure we get it to people. I think that's part of the problem, but I didn't know that going into it. Yeah. And so if we can resolve those things, and make it better each time we go forward, it'll get simpler, and then it'll be better delivery.

Brandon:
01:34:09
One neat thing to bring up about that reminds me. So for the Savage Worlds, well, I'll give you one of the ideas. One of the things we wanna do is some people like to just contribute a little bit of money. They don't wanna back the whole project. They can't buy it.

Brandon:
01:34:20
They wanna throw $5 at you or whatever. We wanna give people something for that, though. You know, you you know, you can just get your name on the book for $5. You know, typical thing you do in these Kickstarters. We're actually gonna provide and, again, I have to make sure I can do this in the back or get the way I think I can, but part of the drop down menu will be, which faction do you support for that $5 and above?

Brandon:
01:34:40
So we're gonna get a vote from whoever backs the next project on. You know? Do you support the Illuminati, the Dragon, the Templar, and then we'll we're gonna lump all their names into the groups and see who has the most

2TonWaffle:
01:34:51
Oh, you know who's gonna win. It's gonna be the Illuminati.

Brandon:
01:34:54
Well, you know, maybe I'll skew the results. No. I can't do that.

Ocho:
01:34:58
I was gonna say I would actually

Brandon:
01:35:00
say No. By the name count.

Ocho:
01:35:01
My my guess is Templar, to be honest.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:35:03
But

Brandon:
01:35:04
They're the most organized.

Ocho:
01:35:05
Yeah.

Brandon:
01:35:05
I don't know. But, yeah, you you know, it's it's been a it's been a learning curve, and I hope that each project we do gets better. I mean, I know I wanna do I've I've just I think I'm changing my mind a little bit about what I wanna do for the next book. I'm thinking about doing a whole, bunch of adventures or what they call a plot point campaign for savage worlds or whatever. Some small adventures, big adventures, and a bestiary.

Brandon:
01:35:34
Only because you have the base book. A lot of people don't know how to write adventures. They can run them, but they don't know how to make them. They'd rather run something written. And I think we could really explore and add to the world through these different adventures, different areas, different locations, and get a whole bunch more creatures and things to fight, so that it gives you more of the toolkit to play the game and then keep expanding the world in the locations.

Brandon:
01:35:58
But we'll decide what's what's gonna work best between now and the the next book, which, you know, the next book will not be until next year sometime. So soon.

Ocho:
01:36:09
Soon. But

Brandon:
01:36:11
But but the next one will be, if things go well with this, the next book will probably be written before we even do the Kickstarter. So there will not be pay us now so we can write it, which we had to do. We didn't have any foundation.

Ocho:
01:36:23
Mhmm. Right.

Brandon:
01:36:24
So the the next one will be you know, it'll be written in. We'll already have the, we already have a trade dress design, you know, the the the way the graphics look in the book, so that saves time and money too. So it'll really just come down to, you know, write this stuff out if we do a a book that's 150 pages is also a third of the work that went into this. So let me see. Uh-huh.

Brandon:
01:36:49
Yeah. You know, that guy, he's been around, annoyed me. I mean, being my friend for the last, I don't know, what, 5, 6 years for kinder mage. He start he saw he saw my stuff for Saints and Sinners is where he got latched on to, to to our group, and he's kinda been a fan of that ever since. But he's been he's been around with me for a while and with another couple of guys that, been around since we started this crazy stuff.

Brandon:
01:37:17
Nice. Yeah. He's like, like, I like to call a good sucker. I mean, a good friend.

2TonWaffle:
01:37:24
They're the best kind.

Brandon:
01:37:26
Yeah. Well, faith once the pet convention in Wichita.

Ocho:
01:37:30
Faithful, a faithful audience.

Brandon:
01:37:34
Yes. Yes. Well, it looks like it's the witching hour for me, and I've talked a lot. So I hope I didn't overwhelm you guys or anything with all

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:37:41
my No.

Ocho:
01:37:42
Not at all. Oh, gosh. No. No. No.

Ocho:
01:37:44
No. If we weren't anything, thank you for coming on. We are always always happy to talk about, any projects relating to secret world, but especially this one because it's just it's so cool. Like, I was looking through the, I was looking through the the PDF because I said it's it's you could download it. You could go through it.

Ocho:
01:38:04
It's done. Going through all the artwork, going going into the the back. When I got to the part, in the very, very back, it's got all the the listing of all the backers and all the backers' names that they wanted to put down. And I was like, man, there's some people who was like, oh, my name is Chester Willingham, Arthur, the white knight of Denver. I don't know.

Ocho:
01:38:30
Like, you know, they they just the name that they've picked is, like, like, 5 or 6 different names in a row with, like, the, the one in in quotes and then the and, like and here I just chose Ocho, and I'm like, that is I've I've got, like, the smallest name possible.

Brandon:
01:38:49
We'll totally give you the option in the Savage Worlds book to put a bigger name in it if you want to. There is a

Ocho:
01:38:54
Hey. That's right. There you go.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:38:56
Ocho's out here saving money on ink. That's right.

Ocho:
01:39:00
That's what I'm doing.

Brandon:
01:39:01
Thank you.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:39:01
I was

Ocho:
01:39:01
like, everyone. Because I was like I was like, I was like, my name's gotta be there somewhere. And, yeah, no. Sure enough. I found it.

Ocho:
01:39:06
Of course, it's in there. But it's just like it's like I don't know. Squeeze between, like, 2 other, like, giant names. Like,

2TonWaffle:
01:39:11
Well, that's the thing. You say because your name is so so small, you can quickly look through and say, oh, boop. There it is because it's That

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:39:18
works. Take me.

Brandon:
01:39:18
Can't be my name. Highlight your name. Alright, guys. It's really a pleasure talking to you.

Ocho:
01:39:24
I might be.

Brandon:
01:39:24
It always is. And, hopefully, we can talk again soon.

Ocho:
01:39:28
Oh, thank you for your time. To have you. Thank you very much. Brandon from Star Anvil Studios, coming out with the tabletop RPG 5th edition for secret world and also coming out with a Kickstarter up and coming for Savage Worlds for secret world as well. Thank you very much for coming on the show, Brandon.

Ocho:
01:39:47
Much appreciated. Always a pleasure to talk to you, and we hope you have a good rest of your evening.

Brandon:
01:39:52
Thanks, guys.

2TonWaffle:
01:39:53
Alright. Have a good one.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:39:54
Take your time. Is now 11:11.

Ocho:
01:39:59
Works out perfectly like that.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:40:02
Oh, like, legitimately, I need to get down a soundboard thing.

Ocho:
01:40:06
You do. I'm surprised you got that right.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:40:08
Rochi Tower. And every time I see that it's 11:11, I just it just plays in my head. The time is now?

Ocho:
01:40:16
11:11? 11:11. Yeah. I mean, you do that pretty much on every stream you do. You just say that

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:40:21
because we are always streamed past 11. But what's weird is, like, that just happens to me when I look at the clock.

Ocho:
01:40:31
Because I'm not

2TonWaffle:
01:40:31
Well, it's it's it's ingrained in your brain too.

Ocho:
01:40:34
I mean, are we not doing that on purpose?

2TonWaffle:
01:40:38
It's a habit.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:40:39
Well, it's it's much like it's much like when he opened the book, and it just happened to be the double page spread with the dragon character in the middle. You know? Like, these things happen.

Ocho:
01:40:50
They happen. They do. Absolutely. So no. That was it's always so cool to have, to have them on to talk about the book.

Ocho:
01:41:00
I'm always learning something. Like I said, I knew I know not I knew nothing about Savage Worlds. So

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:41:07
I don't know anything about that one specifically, but, like, I've played enough different random systems that That

2TonWaffle:
01:41:14
just happened.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:41:14
I don't think it matters. Like, what matters is the people playing Mhmm. And and and the the intent.

Ocho:
01:41:25
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:41:26
That's what matters. The the system is just a framework.

Ocho:
01:41:30
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:41:30
And any good GM is gonna bend the framework anyways. Mhmm. So, like, don't know. The when people get hung up on a specific, like, rule set or system or version, I'm just like, you're just being you're being way too rigid in Atlantic. Like, that's it's not that kind of game.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:41:50
Right? Like, it's You're

Ocho:
01:41:52
being you're just being contrarian. You just you just wanna argue for the decision.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:41:55
Contrarian. It's just like, oh, I it's this system, so I must do it this way. Well, you're playing with a dipshit GM then. Like Yeah. You know what I mean?

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:42:06
Like Mhmm. Any any good, game runner will will bend things where necessary or take inspiration to other things or other systems or I don't know.

Ocho:
01:42:19
Say, like like like, don't take away the don't take away the coolness. Like, you know, let your players let your players, you know you you do want to stick within, within reason. Well, you don't wanna stick within, whatever. But it's like I

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:42:32
definitely have played with people that, like, went way too hard with the power fantasy, and it honestly gets, like, not fun. I had way more fun with with my, coworker that originally got me into tabletop stuff, who was just absolutely ruthless. Like, just just would straight up murder you in a in a in a bar fight. Like, man, you pick the fight. I don't know what you want from me.

Ocho:
01:42:58
That's right. It's your fault, really. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:43:01
Like

Ocho:
01:43:02
You're the one who decided to pick the fight with 20 guys. Listen. I'm not

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:43:05
Like, you get you get shit loot the whole game. You finally somehow managed to survive the end of, like, a 3 month real time, like, adventure. Right? And and you get to the end, and there's finally like, what they had done is, like, in d and d, whatever version it was, you're supposed to get, like, a certain amount of loot, and he just put that off. Like, it ends up being, like, in the boss's cave at the end or something.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:43:32
But even that even that, like, half I maybe not half, but a good chunk of that shit was, like, cursed or sat in the caves so long it decayed into something else. So it was supposed to be a bag of holding, but it was a instead was a bag of devouring as they stuck your arm in there and pulled out a half of a skeleton arm.

Ocho:
01:43:54
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:43:55
You know, someone put on a pair of boots, and they're the acid one to, like, latch onto your legs, and now you can't take the boots off anymore.

Ocho:
01:44:02
You're like, well, I gave you a loop.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:44:04
Got a cool belt that, like, gave you, like, plus 6 strength or something, but, like, they put it on and it changed their gender. Like

Ocho:
01:44:11
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:44:11
That was that was our good loot. That was that was all we got was was

Ocho:
01:44:17
Was trolls. Was actually.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:44:19
And, I and he straight up killed characters. Like, you you had to have a spare at least 1 spare character already written up if you wanted to be playing because that shit would happen. But it was way more fun than I played, like, Warhammer Fantasy with with someone, which system wise, I I mean, again, I don't think systems matter as much as some people seem to think. Mhmm. But the person running it, like, it was way more power trippy.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:44:52
Right? Like, everyone everyone was playing, like, practically, like, a chosen one of some kind. Right? And, like, at some point in the adventure, we're, like, slaying gods or some shit, and I was like, alright, guys. This is a little ridiculous.

Ocho:
01:45:03
Yeah. Yeah. You think you think we're playing maybe a

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:45:06
little less than that? A little too much because now, like, nothing's really interesting anymore. You know?

Ocho:
01:45:12
I, I I used to talk with somebody, and, yeah, they would be telling me, like, stuff about their their, world of darkness campaigns. Yeah. And, yeah, same thing. They're like, well, you know, we're fighting on top of skyscrapers and, like, you know, a 1000 vampires. It's like we're just wiping them out.

Ocho:
01:45:30
Like, what what is this? What is this? What

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:45:33
They shouldn't be. That's not how that's not how world of darkness works.

Ocho:
01:45:38
Something like that, but it's like

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:45:39
Maybe it depends who's again, it depends who's running it. Right? Because the person running it makes a big difference, and they can just bend things how they want. I my first in fact, my first introduction to tabletop wasn't even D and D. It was, Werewolf the Apocalypse.

Ocho:
01:45:58
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:45:59
And, yeah, we were constantly getting screwed over. That has, like, werewolves and vampires in it. Right? Because there's a same company does a vampire the masquerade. Right?

Ocho:
01:46:11
Okay. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:46:11
Of the apocalypse. Right? The there's vampires in it as well because the end up are always, like, fighting the vampires. And, like, silver was a problem, but then I decided to make my character someone that for whatever reason, like, likes having silver. So I don't remember exactly what I was thinking, but I had a I had a werewolf character that, like, carried silver bullets or some shit, which in that system, like, basically gave me negative, attributes kind of all the time.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:46:43
You know? It's it's it's the equivalent of a vampire walking around with a crucifix on his neck, like, just because. I'd like to feel the pain searing into my chest.

2TonWaffle:
01:46:53
I just wanna feel something.

Ocho:
01:46:55
Feel like I'm just, yeah,

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:46:57
I just just I just like to I just like the price.

Ocho:
01:46:59
You can you

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:46:59
can as a as a werewolf in that system, you can have a certain amount of silver on you, but it, like, has, like, a negative effect and too much, and you just kinda, like, fall over. But my guy was always, like, halfway there already because well, I'll do you have a mace turn your werewolf into the slug? There was massive communication problems, and I do remember towards the end of the campaign that in some kind of weird miscommunication, there was a machine that we were supposed to turn on that was gonna prevent the end of the world. And instead, we somehow thought that was the machine that was gonna cause the end of the world, so we smashed into the. We're like, well we smashed the smithereens, pissed on it as werewolves, and then buried it in the ground.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:47:54
And then eventually got told, like, oh, actually, the world's gonna end now because you guys broke the machine that was gonna save the world. So we had to go dig it back up and try and clean the werewolf piss off of it and patch it back together. Alright. It's all thing.

Ocho:
01:48:11
Like, you have to apologize to the machine.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:48:15
No. It was like I I can't remember. I I distinctly can picture the guy's face, but, you know, his character was getting information, and he's supposed to relay it to the group, but he was getting it, like, in notes from the from the game master. You know?

Ocho:
01:48:33
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:48:33
Because, like, he he he had, like, a contact in the game, and so he just somehow misunderstood the information he was getting, and so he related to us improperly. It was a really bad game of telephone that basically nearly ended the world.

Ocho:
01:48:54
I mean, it could.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:48:55
Smash grenade berry as werewolves do. Exactly.

Ocho:
01:48:58
It was

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:48:59
we were, like, high fiving. We were, like, super happy. Like, we we did it.

Ocho:
01:49:02
And he's like guys.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:49:05
So yeah. About that so I think he somehow

Ocho:
01:49:10
Feel like

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:49:11
he did it. Have, like, the contact, like, called up that guy's cell phone or something. It was like, hey. By the way, just to be clear, what I said was this. Oh, shit.

Ocho:
01:49:28
That's amazing.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:49:30
But, yeah, like, to to me, like, anyone stuck in the system, it like, I don't know, man. That's a video game. You're playing it like a video game then.

Ocho:
01:49:37
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:49:38
Right? Like, I can't change the physics in secret world. Right? They they work how they work. But a tabletop game, that's that's a recommendation printed on paper.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:49:49
You can do whatever the fuck you want in your head.

Ocho:
01:49:51
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:49:51
Like, that's that's the purpose of doing it is you can you can flex. So I don't know.

Ocho:
01:49:58
And that's my part that's my part of my idea or part of my, I guess, one of one of the points I was trying to get across is that having more and I don't think I actually really got that got this point across well tonight. But the the point is that having more in, for an IP that you enjoy, having more even if the even if it's not great, even if that even if the the more stuff is not, like, the best thing ever is it's okay because it's expanding. It's expanding the world that you love. It's expanding it even if it's not the best, and so you can't always expect it to be the absolute greatest. It's like, I can't change the physics, but the ceiling is lava rabbit.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:50:42
I can I can change my perception of the physics? I can put my monitor upside down.

Ocho:
01:50:49
It's it's the idea that, like, you know, as a as a fan of Star Trek, as a fan of Lord of the Rings, you know, we've we've had some a lot of stuff come out that it's like, is it is it the greatest thing ever? No. Of course, it's not. Is it the worst thing ever? No.

Ocho:
01:51:05
It's also not the the absolute worst.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:51:08
Could it could it

Ocho:
01:51:09
have been better? Could it be, you know, either, you know, talk about any any of the new Star Trek shows or even, like, the Lord of the Rings show? You know, people are like, oh my gosh. This is the worst thing ever. It's the the one that Amazon made.

Ocho:
01:51:21
And, yeah, it could be better. It could be it could absolutely be better. But the fact that it exists the fact that it exists has enriched the entire thing. Just that it exists.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:51:32
It's a stain on the reputation.

2TonWaffle:
01:51:36
Just kidding.

Ocho:
01:51:37
Some people will say that. Yes. But but the real thing is, like so in secret world, it's like, okay. So we're getting this this book filled with lore that it's like, is it is it the lore? Is it is it canonized lore?

Ocho:
01:51:49
No. Of course not. It's, you know, it's not in the it's not in the game itself, which is considered the canon. Anything that's in the game is canon. But so it's not it's not exactly perfect canon.

Ocho:
01:51:59
It's not exactly whatever, but it expands. And it's it's it's expanding things. It's taking ideas. It's taking characters. We haven't thought

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:52:06
of it. Work on it. That's enough for me.

Ocho:
01:52:08
Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Yeah.

Ocho:
01:52:10
Had a

2TonWaffle:
01:52:10
he has a had a hand in creating this.

Ocho:
01:52:13
Gives it a bunch of legitimacy. Yeah. Mhmm. Absolutely. And so yeah.

Ocho:
01:52:17
So you have to take take that into account as well and say, like, oh, I don't think, you know, his name is Zubairi, should be as important of the character as he is. Well, hey, it's tabletops. You don't have to make them that way. But, like, this all was looked over by Scriv. And, you know, Scriv put in his 2¢ and he he wrote some things and this and that.

Ocho:
01:52:38
So he came up with a whole bunch of it too. So, you know, just because you don't like it or you don't think it's up to a certain standard, that doesn't mean it's not completely it doesn't have value. It has a lot of value because it is taking the world that we love, and it is expanding it. And I think that is a point that I think a lot of people miss for a lot of fixing things.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:53:01
Same thing with, like, the spin off games. Right? Like, the park or hide and streak or,

Ocho:
01:53:06
like,

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:53:06
the moons. Right? I'm always like, hey. Don't sleep on these. And, like, anything like, there's some people that, like, seem to, like, all they want is, like, the next chapter of secret world legends.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:53:18
And I genuinely am like, well, it would be neat to get, like, Congo. Right? It would be neat to get a next thing. But

Ocho:
01:53:26
Oh, absolutely.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:53:26
There's not really an end. It's it was designed as an MMO. They have lots of story beats. They kind of know where it's going, but, like, it's not intended to have a conclusion. Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:53:40
What MMO writes an ending?

Ocho:
01:53:42
Yeah. MMOs don't end.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:53:44
That's not the point of them.

Ocho:
01:53:46
They just keep going. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:53:47
But I just wanna see more stuff in the universe. Right? Like, any game. Right? Like, any any game, any book, any role playing game, secret world trading card game, please.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:53:59
Like, you know what I mean? Like

Ocho:
01:54:01
Amazing. Yeah. Like,

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:54:03
I don't care. I just want more stuff in the setting, but I like the setting. And some people hyperfocus on, like, TSW, what is the best version? Or, you know, SWL is crap because they're fucking stupid.

Ocho:
01:54:17
But Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:54:18
Or, you know, or, you know, legends has the extra story, but it's missing this thing. And, like, no one bought that fucking issue anyways. Shut up. You know? Yep.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:54:31
Mhmm. Or at least not enough of you. So, like, I I don't I don't know. Like, I just want more in the setting. It doesn't I don't need I don't need legends to ever get an update.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:54:42
I'm happy with legends.

Ocho:
01:54:44
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:54:45
I don't it'd be nice. Sure. It'd be cool. I'd love it. But if it never gets an update, I'm okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:54:52
But what I would hate to see is the IP not get used. I wanna see more stuff in the setting.

Ocho:
01:54:59
It's it it would suck if this if it just stagnated. Yeah. If they just held on to this and just didn't do anything with it, then it's like, oh my gosh. Like, come on.

2TonWaffle:
01:55:07
Yeah. And that's a great thing.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:55:08
I wanna see

2TonWaffle:
01:55:09
this stuff this stuff happening.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:55:10
That they're willing to do stuff. Right? I mean, tabletop alone I mean, the books is one thing. Right? But that's a different.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:55:18
I think the tabletop is a different level. It's one thing to license and be like, okay. You can you can write some non canon fiction,

Ocho:
01:55:26
which

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:55:26
is really cool that they did that as well. Don't get me wrong, but, like, it's another level up to be like, oh, you can do a a tabletop game. Like, that's Yeah. Like, that's another tier in my head of, like and then, obviously, like, moons. Right?

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:55:41
They're publishing this this this game. They're like, actually, you know what? This this fits what we have over here. You here. Use this.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:55:50
Hire the scrip guy, why don't you? They used to work for us. Hire the scrip guy on your team, and we're we're we're gonna we're publishing it for you anyways, but we really think this would help, you know, kind of boost both things. You leverage our IP so you're not just

Ocho:
01:56:06
up. Right. Because what what did moon Moon's Amanda start as? It started basically as a not a I

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:56:11
mean, the starter really similar. Like, it it was a space, like, sci fi horror

Ocho:
01:56:17
Yeah. It was something that they basically said, here is a product that we kind of already have. And Funcom was like, hey. Why don't we make that secret world?

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:56:26
Yeah. It's a really good fit. You you've got Yeah. This sort of sci fi horror creepy monster shit in space. Filth is really good for any of that.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:56:39
Right? Let's, let's let's try and do some world building here, and it'll take it'll take your game out from being a generic, you know, spooky thing to actually having, like, just immediately more backstory. Right? Immediately, there's just more gravitas to it.

Ocho:
01:57:00
And something that that people can enjoy just on its own, but also if you play secret world and you play moons of madness, you're like, holy crap. Shit. You're like,

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:57:12
oh my god. Way they layered that shit is so good. So good. The way they layered everything in there is so great because if you've never heard of secret world and you play that, it's still a great Lovecraftian spooky thing.

Ocho:
01:57:25
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:57:25
Because the Lovecraft shit, like, pretty much anyone in the spooky stuff knows anyways.

Ocho:
01:57:30
Mhmm. It's like Yeah. But the point that, the the point that I would get to is that when you get down into the was it the the the very bottom of the, of the facility and you find the badge. You find the

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:57:43
And the sound plays.

Ocho:
01:57:45
The security badge. And, right, the sound plays, and this is like and you see whose badge it is.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:57:50
You see whose badge it is. And right when you see whose badge it is, it it's like a it's like the bell. Like, the the sound that plays instinctually. Anyone that's playing single is

Ocho:
01:58:00
like Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:58:01
Oh, oh, oh. I achieved something.

Ocho:
01:58:04
Holy shit. Has it is like, okay. Alright. Yeah. This guy.

Ocho:
01:58:07
Who's this guy? Oh, it's just the it's just the next level of whatever I need in order to get into the the system. Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:58:13
But if you see where you're like, oh my gosh.

Ocho:
01:58:15
Like It's

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:58:16
such a good reveal because it have mainly that sound whoever decided to put that sound effect in there, like, oh my god. That was perfect.

Ocho:
01:58:23
Yes. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:58:24
Good job. Perfect.

Ocho:
01:58:25
Good job.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:58:26
Because to anyone that's not played ticket role, you found you know you found an important badge in it, like, oh, that's a cool sound. But if you played Secret World, that shit is mind blowingly awesome. Mhmm.

Ocho:
01:58:37
And it's like that that's what I mean. Like, like, we got moons of madness. Moons of madness itself is just a good a good property by itself. It's a good it's a good game by itself, but the fact that it's expanding secret world, it's expanding the secret world Yeah. Universe, it's like, that's that's even better.

Ocho:
01:58:54
That adds so much more context. It adds so much more to it. Yeah. I would love to see that. In the world.

Ocho:
01:59:00
Amazing.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:59:00
Like, any any kind of other game or just, you know, their publishers publish a different game and publish another game and have it use the IP. You know what I mean?

Ocho:
01:59:10
And right now, Funcom is working on, Dune Awakening. It's where it's working still on. COVID-nineteen.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:59:16
Hard. They they did the,

Ocho:
01:59:18
They have to. Yeah. Of course, they are. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:59:21
Well, they did have we have we had a show since the No. Since their trailer with, Zoe and and Bylos?

Ocho:
01:59:28
No. I was gonna I was gonna mention that, right, of, of the other things we have to discuss.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:59:33
Direct, which I guess are supposed to have, like, a series of the the directs.

2TonWaffle:
01:59:36
Yeah. They said this is the first of May.

Ocho:
01:59:39
This is the first direct with, Zoey Gishwind.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:59:42
Yeah. So that was awesome for me because I'm a big Overwatch league even though Overwatch league is now dead and now it's Overwatch CS. But, yep, same thing. Like, it's it's the esport. Yes.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:59:55
She's the, like, main host for

2TonWaffle:
01:59:57
Overwatch League.

JimmyTheRabbit:
01:59:58
She's like the face

2TonWaffle:
01:59:59
of Overwatch League.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:00:00
Like, really the face of Overwatch League.

Ocho:
02:00:02
Yeah. We like to see her post recognize her, but that's because I never was in Overwatch League.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:00:06
I literally would probably, like, see her, like, every weekend, basically, when the, you know, when the the match And she's been in the esports scene for for me to see Zoe live, like, wait. What? Holy shit.

Ocho:
02:00:22
Yeah. And if just just to go into this because I do have a point on this. Yeah. Dune awakening had its 1st direct showcase March 4th hosted by, Zoe Geschwind, as I'm I'm assuming it's how it's pronounced. I don't know.

Ocho:
02:00:35
Interviewing Joel Bylos, basically. The full show is now available on YouTube, showing never before seen footage, a new trailer, and explanations on some of the game's mechanics. Like, they were going into how like, when you start off, you could do you could do crafting. You could do, you know, the crafting to build a base. Get a la la Conan exiles.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:00:56
My favorite part was the hydration.

Ocho:
02:01:00
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Because water is very important on Arrakis.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:01:04
You could eat a bunch of plants, but you'll have to eat a ton to get enough water, and you'll get sick and throw up. Or just kill someone and drink their blood.

Ocho:
02:01:11
And and and take that out of their blood. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:01:13
That whole interaction in the interview was great.

Ocho:
02:01:16
He's like, that's how I get water. You know? I steal I steal it from the lake, but that's a Dune thing. I made sure I wanted to be I wanted to be in order to prep for this, I did I did read through the first Dune novel also because they were releasing the the the movies at the same time. I you know, I do wanna I do wanna have some some basis.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:01:35
Sure. Yeah.

Ocho:
02:01:35
And I like I like going to the source material first. So I've read I've read the first doom book. It is hefty. It is, like, 800 something pages. It is it is a hefty, hefty novel.

Ocho:
02:01:47
And so having that still fresh in my mind, it's interesting to see all these things that are like, oh, and, you know, how we're doing with with Dune Awakening and certain things like, that he that they're already addressed. They've already addressed 2 things I've seen, and one was they're like sand walking. And so in order to avoid the sandworms, you have to, like, walk in this, like, pattern that's

2TonWaffle:
02:02:08
Well, not a pattern. It's just nonrhythmic.

Ocho:
02:02:10
This sort of, like, nonrhythmic, but it's, like, basically, you make yourself out to basically be like a like like a like a like a mouse on the sand or like a like, you know, something rolling across the dude. Like, you you basically are part of nature as you walk across the sand so as not to attract the sandworms. And I think Bylos was basically like, we couldn't make that work, man. It looks too dumb. It's it's really we could not make that.

Ocho:
02:02:34
We just couldn't do it. It just it just looks too stupid. Or another thing that was like, there there are these laser guns. They just call them they just call

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:02:45
them lasers. Kerfuffle about the guns and the shields?

Ocho:
02:02:48
Yes. And it's supposed to be, like, when a when a lasgun hits a shield, it's it produces a nuclear explosion. It produces a by the way. So in the novel, it's like, you know, I was like, oh, do you see they're using shields? Okay.

Ocho:
02:03:05
Well, we're gonna stick we're not gonna we're not gonna do the the laser guns then because, you know, it's sorta like a it's sorta like a a mutual destruction sort of thing.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:03:13
It's basically an excuse to go to bladed combat.

Ocho:
02:03:17
Yes. And and to use, guns too and to use other other weapons.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:03:22
Yeah. But it's it's just an excuse to not use lasers.

Ocho:
02:03:26
Mhmm. And and right. And using using blades and using the these other systems. And I I feel like I feel like the the the writer, what's his name? I I forget off the top of my head.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:03:37
Frank Herbert?

Ocho:
02:03:39
Frank Herbert. Yeah. Then then you put that in a sort of like, like, when was the book written? In the in the 19 sixties? That that was sort of like a cold war sort of analogy to,

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:03:51
Well, yeah. It's a nuclear deterrent. Right? Like, you don't you don't Yeah. No one does this because it would just destroy everything.

Ocho:
02:03:56
And it does happen at one point in the book. It does happen where, they're like, oh, we left them a we left them a surprise, and it was basically because also on Arrakis, if you use a shield on the sand, that that attracts sandworms as well.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:04:12
Right. Right.

Ocho:
02:04:12
So so really, like, the the Fremen aren't using shields because shields attract the sandworms. So the the Harkonnen or Harkonnen as the movie pronounces it. That was the thing too as I was making up all the pronunciations in my head. And then Right. Then watched the movie, and I was like, oh, that's how that's pronounced.

Ocho:
02:04:30
Okay.

2TonWaffle:
02:04:31
Yeah. Kinda, I was the same way with, I I grew up watching the 84 movie.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:04:37
Uh-huh.

2TonWaffle:
02:04:38
And it it is you can give paces to the characters, you know, like, Patrick Stewart is the Dunkin' Idaho and

Ocho:
02:04:47
What a name, by the way. I I was reading the book, and I was like, Dunkin' Idaho? I was like

2TonWaffle:
02:04:52
Well, you got, like, Paul Atreides, Seanie

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:04:56
Clearly, he's going to a Dunkin' Donuts in Idaho.

2TonWaffle:
02:04:59
Yeah. Then he got Dunkin' Idaho.

Ocho:
02:05:01
What a what an American name that is. I was like, that is a it's great. And, was who was he played by? Like, with Jason Momoa or something? Played him in the in the new movies, and I was like, okay.

Ocho:
02:05:14
Like, his character made a lot more sense that way because the entire time reading the book, I'm like, that's a what a name. What a name that guy has. And it just kinda, like, kept throwing me off a little bit.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:05:23
I will say what I thought was interesting from both I figured talked about it in the the direct, but also in the oh, I caught the end of, like, the unreal presentation they just did. I think it was from GDC.

Ocho:
02:05:41
Yes. I haven't caught up with that one specifically.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:05:44
So I I saw Bilos in like, I I I I didn't I don't think I caught the beginning of it, but I caught him introducing, like, a talking about some stuff and introducing a a thing they showed.

Ocho:
02:05:54
Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:05:55
But there's some repetitive stuff in in from both things.

Ocho:
02:06:02
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:06:04
And I was generally surprised, like, how much they interacted with the movie team.

Ocho:
02:06:11
Yes. Yeah. There's a lot of the movie in this. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:06:14
Well, he said, John said

2TonWaffle:
02:06:16
in in the direct

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:06:17
with, like, the actual director. Like, they're using the, like, unreal, like, plan the the shots for the movie for, like, lighting wise. Mhmm. Like, the amount of, and

Ocho:
02:06:31
then they actually have, like,

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:06:32
phone call, like, on the set and walking around and, like, you know, like, that that amount of integration, like, I did not expect that.

Ocho:
02:06:41
I think we're gonna actually see a lot more of that. The the an example that comes to mind for me is that in the latest season of star trek Picard, they actually went to the makers of Star Trek online, and they said, hey. You guys have all these new ships that you guys have made for the game. Mhmm. Yeah.

Ocho:
02:07:01
Can we just, you know, have all of them? Yeah. Can we just can we just have a few of them? Because, like, we're gonna need it. We're gonna have a scene that's gonna have, like, a whole bunch of different ships.

Ocho:
02:07:11
So you guys already have Star Trek models Right.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:07:14
It's already 3 d modeled.

Ocho:
02:07:15
Yeah. So I was like, can we just have that? And then we'll put it in the show and basically canonize these ships that you have made as part of the show. And I think we're gonna see a lot more of that just because of that.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:07:27
The tech's overlapping, I think.

Ocho:
02:07:29
Exactly. Yeah. The the tech of making the making the movies and making the shows is very getting very similar to the making of video games, and the and they're using all kinds of, like, the same models and this and that. So it's like, yeah. I think we're going to see a lot more crossover.

2TonWaffle:
02:07:43
Well, I saw in the direct. I think what they were using is the unreal engine for, you know, the background scene and pretty much know the set where they were sitting was all

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:07:52
The specifically, the part I'm talking about with the director is he was literally talking about I think they were doing it I could be wrong, but it sounded like at least for one of the things he was talking about, that they're actually going to shoot it. Like, they're in the desert. They're going to shoot it in the desert. Right? But they need to model, like, where to have people, where to put their reflectors in in real life.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:08:16
Right? Because they wanted to be able to time okay. The sun's moving. Yeah. Shadows are going.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:08:22
Things are happening. We put these reflectors here. The actor standing here, can we get, like, these things to fall, like, where we want them to? And they're and using the engine to basically, like, set up the shot before going out in the desert for real and going like, okay. Now we know we have it planned out.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:08:43
Go here. Stand here. Do this.

Ocho:
02:08:45
Right. Stand exactly here.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:08:47
But these are exactly the time we get here.

Ocho:
02:08:49
Exactly what we want. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:08:50
Yeah. So I think there was some level of that Okay. From what I I saw, which is really cool. I mean, obviously awesome. It just makes sense if you can preplan something, if you can premodel something.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:09:03
Right? Can we CGI sunlight? I mean Sure. Yeah.

Ocho:
02:09:09
Yeah. I mean Well, I

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:09:09
think there's also something to be said for, like, CGI see, like, you obviously, you can do a lot of post work on a on a movie, and they do a lot of post work.

Ocho:
02:09:20
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:09:20
But there is something to be said about just getting it right the like, on film. Like, the less you have to do that, like, it's one thing to do, like, color correction and things like that, but the less you have to actually, like, make up, I think the like, a lot of times

Ocho:
02:09:38
it's just better. Yeah. Isn't that sort of like the idea for, like, the latest Mandalorian stuff where

2TonWaffle:
02:09:45
Yeah. It's all in the volume that it's all using NVIDIA technology, and then that's how they can get everything is all, like your reflections are because it's it's basically this huge LED dome that you're acting in.

Ocho:
02:10:00
Or yeah. Or you're acting basically in front of a screen. You're acting in front of, like, a giant circular screen or something, and you could just put whatever effect you want in the background. But I even mean, like, in Mandalorian, they're even bringing back, like they're like, let's bring, you know, like, let's make a muppet. Let's make muppets for these things, and people will love it because they'll see it.

Ocho:
02:10:20
And it's like, you know, it it isn't just a visual effect. It isn't just, you know, the character is or that they're showing is, like, completely not there or something like that. They're like, no. It's a it's a still live model that we're just working with. You know?

2TonWaffle:
02:10:34
Yeah. Like with, Grogu because it's it's an actual puppet. So people have more, like, they can interact with it and treat it as, you know, another actor. The guys

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:10:46
the guys that did this the show dark, I

Ocho:
02:10:48
don't know

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:10:48
if you guys have seen that. It's a German show. Mhmm. They did 18 99.

Ocho:
02:10:54
Okay. I heard after 99.

2TonWaffle:
02:10:56
Scratch, you'll never be out out of a job.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:10:59
There's always gonna

2TonWaffle:
02:10:59
be a lot

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:11:00
of post production. Right. And secondly secondly, you you're about to log out there, Waffle.

Ocho:
02:11:06
No.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:11:06
No. But but secondly Oh, no. Like, I think even if you do everything right, you still have post production. Like, you still have color correction. You still have, like, other things you have to do in post even if things

Ocho:
02:11:18
are Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:11:19
Mostly right from my understanding, at least. Oh, what I was saying is so so the guys that did dark, did another series called 18 99.

Ocho:
02:11:33
Okay. That's on

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:11:34
And I saw a little behind the scenes on that, and that used what Woff was talking about, the volume, where, like, it's it's like a it's like a virtual stage. Like, it's crazy. Like, the amount that they can just render

Ocho:
02:11:49
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:11:49
Like, real time basically is crazy.

Ocho:
02:11:52
Either, like either basically you're just in a stage that is one, like, gigantic green screen with, like, I don't know, maybe some

2TonWaffle:
02:11:58
Well, it's it's not even a green screen. It's it's LED panels.

Ocho:
02:12:01
Green screen. You're Or it's LED panels. Yeah.

2TonWaffle:
02:12:03
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:12:03
It's way easier to act with because it's there.

2TonWaffle:
02:12:06
Yeah. You can see what you're looking at. It's like, oh, there's the only ship that comes over here. It's like, oh, yeah. I can see the ship.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:12:13
So when they look when they look across the ocean, see some ship in the distance, the actors looking across the ocean and seeing a ship in the distance.

Ocho:
02:12:21
Ship in

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:12:21
the distance.

Ocho:
02:12:22
Right? Okay. I think they they use that sort of stuff on, the last season of star trek discovery too. Yeah. That where it's like, a giant, like, yeah, a giant circular screen, essentially.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:12:33
By the way, if you haven't seen dark, see that shit. It's amazing.

Ocho:
02:12:38
I'll say that I have not. I will make a note of that.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:12:41
And then 18 99 is from the same people, and that one's so dark is German. So, like, subtitles

Ocho:
02:12:49
is Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:12:50
It but it's it's so it's so I've I've actually good. I've watched it, like, twice.

Ocho:
02:12:54
Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:12:55
Yeah. You kinda you kinda

2TonWaffle:
02:12:56
have to because you kind of, like, miss some things. It's like, oh, okay. That explains

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:13:01
Yeah. There's there's a lot going on in that show. But they also did a show called 18 99 Mhmm. Which, is really interesting because, obviously, like, dark was German. Right?

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:13:12
But 18/99 is really interesting because it's on a ship.

Ocho:
02:13:17
Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:13:18
Kinda like like a like a Titanic kinda thing. Right? Mhmm. But everyone on the ship is speaking, like, whatever language their country they're from. So you have this ship going across the ocean that has, like, Italian people and French people and Japanese people.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:13:38
Right? And they're all speaking their language, and some of them speak more than one language, but some of them don't. And you're getting subtitles in all the different languages, but the characters have problems talking to each other sometimes during the things because they literally don't understand each other.

Ocho:
02:13:57
Right.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:13:57
And, also, from the behind the scenes, it turns out neither did the actors sometimes because they got actors, and some of them didn't speak more than, like you know? So they literally not only were the characters fragmented in the show due to the due to their languages, but the actual cast was somewhat as well. And they have, like, different, like, handlers working with people to, like, work these scenes out. It was Okay. Really, really cool.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:14:23
It felt very immersive. Like, you're you're like, this is the time period. This is just a smorgasbord of different cultures. Like, you know, they all go to dinner, and, like, they're all just convert like, you know, little groups have formed and they're conversing. And they'll be, like, one person that can kind of be a link because they happen to know the some of the other language or whatever.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:14:46
And then some of them and then shit goes crazy and, you know, weird stuff happens. And then you're then you're like, why am I running? I don't know. I'm following that person because they're running, and you can't understand what they're saying to you about the horrible thing coming to kill you or something because you all speak the same language. Like

Ocho:
02:15:07
It's cool.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:15:07
That show that show was a trip.

Ocho:
02:15:10
Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:15:10
Yeah. I'm down for anything those directors make.

Ocho:
02:15:14
Okay. Yeah. 18 99 has been on my that's been on my radar for so

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:15:19
far as it showed up. Alone. It's just super interesting. It's not something I've ever seen I can't recall ever seeing that being done, but it's obviously a reality. Right?

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:15:29
Like, it's a reality that you would have struggled with I mean, people still struggle with it today in modern times, but especially back when that was newer and people were on these voyages for, like, it's gonna take you 6 months to get somewhere, and you just have a cruise liner full of people that are, like, segregated by literally by culture and language.

Ocho:
02:15:51
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:15:52
And I have no idea what the other person's saying. No. It was really cool. Yeah. And dark is just fucking, like, the crazy, crazy shit.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:16:03
Dark is amazing on, like, many levels.

Ocho:
02:16:07
I'll have to I really have to check that out.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:16:10
So I think Dark is Waffle is Dark's 3 seasons?

2TonWaffle:
02:16:16
I I wanna say yes.

Ocho:
02:16:17
What is it on?

2TonWaffle:
02:16:19
Netflix.

Ocho:
02:16:20
Netflix? Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:16:20
Yeah. It was it was a Netflix show.

2TonWaffle:
02:16:22
And I'm also pissed at Netflix because 18 99 was canceled after 1 season.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:16:28
I mean, luckily luckily, it kind of

2TonWaffle:
02:16:32
We're not gonna say anything.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:16:34
No. No. Just saying, like was yeah.

Ocho:
02:16:35
I thought that was paramount. I'm

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:16:36
not gonna spoil it, but I'm saying, luckily, it kind of does sort of bookend itself. Like, obviously, you'd want to know more. I wanna know more, but it does kind of, like there's some shows that end where you're like, what the fuck? That was in the middle.

Ocho:
02:16:52
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:16:53
I do feel like they hit, like, a like, a point. Right? Does that make sense? Where you're like, yes. A sequel would be awesome.

2TonWaffle:
02:17:02
Like, inside job, dark matter.

Ocho:
02:17:06
But Oh my gosh.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:17:07
But at least something like at least it closed. Do you know what I mean? Like, at least there was some sense of we started here. We ended up here. We now see there's all this to go, but but the initial thing has kind of, like, more or less resolved.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:17:25
But, yeah, 3 seasons. Dark dark is 3 seasons.

2TonWaffle:
02:17:30
And it's more like 10 episodes or some it's

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:17:33
it's I think you have about 10 a season, I think, something like that.

Ocho:
02:17:36
Okay. So more modern modern seasons.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:17:38
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

2TonWaffle:
02:17:41
Yeah. That's only, like, 20 something episodes.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:17:45
It's I I I think I binged all of dark in, like, 3 days or something.

2TonWaffle:
02:17:50
Yeah. I think I did the same thing too. I was like

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:17:52
Like, it's so good. And then I found 1899, like, specifically because it was by the same people. I'm like, I need to see what these guys make. So I I found 1899 after that. And, supposedly, they're gonna be working on an adaptation of something that's killing the children, which I think is a comic book.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:18:22
Yeah. It's a comic book. I thought so.

Ocho:
02:18:24
Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:18:25
It's wow. It's a comic book that's won 3 Eisner Awards. Some good writing in there.

Ocho:
02:18:34
I'm trying to look up anything on my computer right now, and, like, nothing wants to load. I don't know what's going on.

2TonWaffle:
02:18:40
That's because they turned off all the microphone stuff.

Ocho:
02:18:42
I think they tried to fix my microphone stuff. Like like, even Chrome is like, you wanna load a website? Sorry, man. Not happening.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:18:48
You need a microphone.

Ocho:
02:18:50
All the websites you got

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:18:52
are Chrome there.

Ocho:
02:18:53
The the

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:18:53
whole reason I derailed onto that is because that was the first time I actually saw what was talking about with the volume stuff is, like, the behind the scenes on 18 99. But, yeah, it's really interesting

2TonWaffle:
02:19:03
to see how they filmed stuff because it's not just it's what the camera is looking at. So when you're standing there in the volume, like, the background will change depending on where the camera is pointing at. So it's kind of, it keeps that how was it? Not the aspect ratio, but, you know, so it doesn't seem like, oh, they're standing in front of a screen. It's makes it feel like they're standing in front of whatever it is.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:19:31
You're you're standing on a boat in the ocean or you're standing on a field, like, be because you can see it. Like, it's there. And I think he still had, like, physical props and stuff. Like

2TonWaffle:
02:19:41
Yeah. The well, the thing is, like, with, like, say, with the Mandalorian because the the character in the Mandalorian, his armor is very reflective. So, normally, like anything else, it'd be, like, green screen and Ocho is coming back in. Welcome back. Bet.

Ocho:
02:20:02
Testing.

2TonWaffle:
02:20:03
So instead of, like you're you're working. Instead of, like, just, the green reflecting and having someone going in with postproduction scratch and having to actually, like, do the process of, slapping or copying and pasting the scene on the armor. It's reflective. It's so it's right there, so I don't have to do that.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:20:25
Yeah. So we're we're taking Scratch's job one one thing at a time?

2TonWaffle:
02:20:29
One thing at a time.

Ocho:
02:20:30
Sorry, Scratch. Just And we're gonna

2TonWaffle:
02:20:32
we're gonna use AI.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:20:33
Be able to you'll always be there to remove those Starbucks cups that people keep leaving around the goddamn.

Ocho:
02:20:39
Leave them in. Leave them in and get stuff people to find. Sorry. I had a whole bunch of tabs open, and, what it was is Chrome just decided to crash. That's what happened.

2TonWaffle:
02:20:52
Oh, okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:20:53
That makes sense.

Ocho:
02:20:54
Yeah. I was like, I can't I can't load anything. I wonder why. Yeah. Chrome's crashing.

Ocho:
02:20:58
That's

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:21:03
why. But yeah. Anyways, Dune, they're they're at I think, I don't know if GC wrapped up, but they're at they're also gonna be at, PAX.

Brandon:
02:21:13
Yep. Like,

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:21:14
they're like they're on, like, tour. They're on they're on a press tour right now.

2TonWaffle:
02:21:18
The whirlwind tour.

Ocho:
02:21:19
I was gonna say, this is actually watching watching funcom, basically, because we hadn't had a lot of information about dude awakening before this. But that's just because they were just sort of waiting for the movie to come out and basically all the hype surrounding the movie to kind of ride that wave, which they are which they are doing.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:21:38
Yeah.

Ocho:
02:21:39
Why we're that's why we're seeing this this massive influx of, of Dune stuff is is because they, they're just basically capitalizing on the movie, which is what you would want them to do, which is why you would, you know, just show that that is

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:21:55
yeah. Absolutely. They just, day 1 of PAX East just wrapped. Look at their Twitter right now. Also, poor Tasha.

Ocho:
02:22:03
Yeah. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:22:05
Her her, flight her travel slash luggage situation was just, very, very, cursed. It was very cursed.

Ocho:
02:22:19
I didn't I didn't see that.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:22:21
Oh, no? No. Yeah. Let let me see.

2TonWaffle:
02:22:25
Yeah. These people need to move over to, like, Blue Sky or threads or Mastodon or something.

Ocho:
02:22:30
Oh, no. I see. If one of the first things is right, are you tired about my travel drama yet? Sorry if you are, but oh, good news. They found it, and it's on a flight to San Francisco today.

Ocho:
02:22:40
The bad news, they can't guarantee I will get the luggage delivered at the hotel here before I need to leave for Boston tomorrow. Oh my gosh. It's, lost luggage, man. It's a nightmare.

2TonWaffle:
02:22:53
That's why I say only do carry on.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:22:57
It wasn't just that. It was I think it started it started with, their flight because it it was, like, 0 degrees, snowing.

Ocho:
02:23:09
Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:23:10
All their flights are canceled. They told her to rebook a canceled flight, and then an hour on the phone tells you to go to the counter where you stand in line for 2 hours to get a number machine that's out of order telling you to call the number from the first thing. And then and then on the the other flight was delayed because the pilots that were supposed to fly it, were trapped at the other airport that was supposed to fly in. They got rebooked multiple times. Then and when they go out yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:23:49
When she finally got got out there, like, their, luggage was a problem. Oh, trains were canceled. Like like, her whole feed, like, since,

Ocho:
02:24:04
Just been one nightmare after another.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:24:06
Since, like, March 16th. It's just been, like, one long chain of, like, holy fuck.

Ocho:
02:24:16
Oh, man. Sorry, Tasha. It's rough. So rough.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:24:22
Also, how am I gonna go live and deliver to Boston if it arrives at the hotel after I left? Yep. So when she gets Every every she keeps. So when she gets to one stop, and then she goes to the next one, and her luggage connects us up to the other one.

Ocho:
02:24:38
And then it has to connect again, right, to to where she's actually going to. Oh my gosh. Yeah. It is a A nightmare. It's a nightmare.

2TonWaffle:
02:24:46
Especially when she gets home, a couple days later, it'll come come home.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:24:50
She's like she says, yeah.

Ocho:
02:24:51
Alright. Contact the, the airport where it's just gonna be on, like, the on the the carousel just just going around and around and around and be like, could you get it? And I'm no longer there. At that point, you just have your you just be like, take that and mail it to my home. I will deal with it later.

Ocho:
02:25:13
I've already learned how to deal with it, How to deal with no luggage, I'll be fine.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:25:22
Oh, man. Poor poor Asa. That's rough.

Ocho:
02:25:25
It is.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:25:26
Looks like the conventions have been pretty good, though.

Ocho:
02:25:29
Yep.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:25:29
Still not in the beta in case anyone's curious. Yep. Still still hasn't happened. I got an email I had was from Funcom, and I was like, oh, Funcom. And then it's like, it was generic Dune announcement for, like, the new director.

Ocho:
02:25:45
It was like, hey.

2TonWaffle:
02:25:46
Yeah. What's your favorite?

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:25:47
Have you heard of Dune? Saw, like, a week earlier. I was like, goddamn it. Like, yes. I've seen about Dune awakening.

2TonWaffle:
02:25:54
I've seen I think it was like fun calm. You see fun calm in Dune. I'm like, oh, you open it up.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:26:01
Is it Did I get an email? Nope. Nope. Nope. Just just fuck me.

2TonWaffle:
02:26:05
Thanks for letting me know about the direct I watched,

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:26:08
but okay. Like, a week ago.

Ocho:
02:26:11
Just a just a couple more things I wanted to get to. These were just extra sort of things. 1, Dune Spice Wars is the DICE Awards. I'm sorry. I didn't write this.

Ocho:
02:26:24
Oh, no. Dune Spice Wars, yeah, is the DICE Awards strategy simulation game of the year. Wow. Dune Spice Wars wanted the wanted the, the DICE Awards, which is awesome. And that Dune Spice Wars also released an expansion pack for Dune Spice Wars, called House Vernius of Ix, which I just read the book.

Ocho:
02:26:47
I just or I just read the first book, and nowhere do they mention this faction. Here I find out there are, like, 2 or 3, 4 books down the line. I'm like, oh,

2TonWaffle:
02:26:54
okay. Yeah.

Ocho:
02:26:56
Okay. I was like, who who are these guys? Who? Oh, it's it's down. It's further further further book.

Ocho:
02:27:04
It's fine. But they released that March 7th along with a free update heroes of Dune, and heroes of Dune brings hero units to the game, which is,

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:27:16
Oh, that's cool.

Ocho:
02:27:18
Yeah. So there's, like, 2 heroes for each faction, I think, that you could that you could acquire. And, Yeah. They they changed stuff up, and they're an actual, like, yeah, the hero unit. So you can get is Paul one of them?

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:27:35
I'll tell

Ocho:
02:27:35
my Oh my god.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:27:36
That was another thing that was in the there was the there was the lasers and the shields thing, and then there was the whole, like, you're not gonna be the messiah or some shit.

2TonWaffle:
02:27:46
Yeah. You're not the chosen one.

Ocho:
02:27:47
Oh, yeah. You're not the chosen one.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:27:50
Like, you're like, gosh.

Ocho:
02:27:51
Good. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:27:52
Good. Like, feel like, yeah.

Ocho:
02:27:54
You're that's an MO.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:27:55
Works in secret world, And secret world's actually written to have, like, yes. Gaia has activated a whole bunch of bees, and it still kind of barely works because it's really hard to have a 1,000 chosen ones doing the same quest. It doesn't really work.

Ocho:
02:28:12
Yes.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:28:13
Right? Like, you're better for the show than most other games just because it is written that there's more than one of you, and the characters do mention that, like, oh, like, with the Ancilis, one of you guys will get it right. Like, like, they mentioned there's multiple of you, but you can't all have beaten Beaumont. That doesn't make sense. Right?

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:28:33
Like, one of you fought Beaumont, not I mean, it might make sense if, like, one of you fought Beaumont. That might actually make more sense.

Ocho:
02:28:42
But just everyone just everyone perpetually fights Beaumont, but everyone's like, goddamn it.

2TonWaffle:
02:28:47
Well, it's multiversal.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:28:49
I can't get a hit, and they keep keep bum rushing me.

Ocho:
02:28:52
That's what that's one of my favorite lines is right. When he when he's like, it's like you brought me the Incili of Mars, and he's like he's like, it's, oh, this is good. It's the it's a fake, but it's just a really good fake, and he throws it over the side. Yeah. Like a pile of people.

Ocho:
02:29:07
Will get it right. 1 of you will get it eventually.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:29:09
Eventually hit it right. So, like like, it's written That's amazing. It core story revolves around, yes, Gaia has activated bees en masse, right, to deal on the upcoming as, like, antibodies to deal with the upcoming apocalypse stuff. And even even that, like, it it doesn't work very well.

Ocho:
02:29:30
Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:29:31
But it would make zero sense in a good thing like Dune for everyone to be playing the singular messiah.

Ocho:
02:29:40
That But yet many MMOs do that. Many MMOs are basically like, you are. It's you. You're the you're the chosen one.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:29:47
No. No. MMOs will say other ones will say, like, you're the chosen one. Right?

Ocho:
02:29:52
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:29:53
And be singular, but everyone else is running out thinking they're the chosen one. But this is specifically your Paul.

Ocho:
02:29:59
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:29:59
Yeah. Right? Like, it doesn't make any sense. There can't be 10,000 of you running around the server being Paul. It's

Ocho:
02:30:06
like one of the

2TonWaffle:
02:30:07
old ones.

Ocho:
02:30:08
Playing, like, Lord of the Rings online and just being like, well, I'm Legolas. So, you know, and how many how many elf characters you have named, like, you know, leg leg of Leg

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:30:16
of last?

Ocho:
02:30:17
With games. Last. The characters of Dune now walk the sands of Arrakis after reaching 10,000 hegemony. Each faction can choose between 2 heroes to recruit as a unit that will influence their whole military strategy. House Atreides can choose between Duncan Idaho or Gurney Halleck.

Ocho:
02:30:39
House Harkonnen can choose Glossorabin or I can Neford. I do not know those names. The Fremen. I know Raben. But, anyway, the Fremen can choose between Shani or a a Atham?

Ocho:
02:30:54
These names, man. House Corino, Wins Wincisia Corino or Captain Arumsham. Maybe these are names that come out in the different books. The smugglers can choose Drisk or Banerjee, and house ekas can choose Whitmore blood or Elisa Ekkaz. So, I mean, I'm sure they didn't make these names up.

Ocho:
02:31:19
These are obviously well, obviously, the Fremen Chani.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:31:22
I mean, they're made of names.

Ocho:
02:31:24
Right. They're made of names. Yes.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:31:26
From the book.

Ocho:
02:31:27
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:31:29
All names are

Ocho:
02:31:30
made of names. Yeah. Not not from the first book, but, heroes that were previously counselors have been replaced by 2 new counselors per faction, per faction. Oh, you can get young Paul Atreides. Oh, so you can have young Paul in there somewhere.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:31:48
Why you know, YP?

Ocho:
02:31:52
Y p YPA. But they've done a they've also done a combat rework. Combat systems have been reworked with an emphasis on making army composition deeper and more diverse with each unit having a role to play without increasing the need to micromanage too much. Sounds Okay. Sounds good.

Ocho:
02:32:09
Stealth rework. We've made stealth a more powerful advanced mechanic. Stealthy units are no longer detected by everything. They will often remain hidden until their first strike in combat. To detect a stealthy unit before they strike, You have to rely on probe setup, a new village building called monitoring station or a rare gear or hero effects.

Ocho:
02:32:30
Okay. Alright. And they've done an intel mini rework to make intel operation and faction infiltration more valuable. We removed the production of 1 intel per non faction information fee. Okay.

Ocho:
02:32:43
It's getting a little too much. I haven't played I haven't played that much to understand what the heck that means. We also restricted data center to regions neighboring an enemy, like the listening post and rework the observatory mountain special region, allows you to build both data center and listening post without constraint and increase your productivity by 50%.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:32:59
Okay. Alright.

Ocho:
02:33:01
But basically, the point is, yeah, hero characters, hero units.

2TonWaffle:
02:33:06
That's cool.

Ocho:
02:33:07
That's a that's a really cool thing to add. But yes. But they also came out with a a new expansion, and the expansion is basically a new house.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:33:19
Yeah. Yeah.

Ocho:
02:33:21
I didn't say anything as far as, like, anything extra in it, but it is the new the new house, Verdi, is a mix. But when you're playing a game like this, the different houses you play, like, it matters. It matters. It matters a whole bunch. So, yeah, they each play a little differently, and, that's a good thing.

Ocho:
02:33:37
Other than that, Conan Exiles age of war chapter 4 is coming out April 2nd. It includes a sacred hunt event, which is basically finding bosses throughout the world, killing the first one, getting a clue as to where the second one is, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Expanding purges, fatality animations for each weapon. That's fun. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:34:01
I think they've had them. Right?

Ocho:
02:34:05
No. Not in Conan Exiles.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:34:07
Yeah.

Ocho:
02:34:08
No. I think these are these are specific, like, you know, oh, you're gonna kill someone, and it's, like, the final enemy or something, and it, like, focuses in, and you get this special, like, animation.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:34:18
Oh, okay.

Ocho:
02:34:19
Like, it's almost like that.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:34:21
Have, like Sort sort of like a cutscene. Like, you just, like, give something. You know? Yeah. They definitely had some kind of fatality in there already.

Ocho:
02:34:31
Oh, they got a they got a lot of fatality. Yes. But I think in this case, it's more like a like a like a zoomed

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:34:37
in or something?

Ocho:
02:34:38
Cinematic thing. Yeah. A new battle pass and bizarre and bizarre, man. And a rework of how you gain experience for the battle pass. This is gonna be new.

Ocho:
02:34:52
They're removing not not fully, but they're removing the, you have to do these very specific things, like, I don't know, kill 10 alligators or harvest 4 plants or pick 10 berries or something. They're removing that, and they're just saying just play as normal, that you will basically level up through the battle pass just by regular play, just by killing anything, just by killing, collecting things, just by whatever you play that gives you experience, you now gain experience to the battle pass as well.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:35:25
But also I said I like that. What's that? I'm gonna I'm gonna be the odd one out here and say I don't like that.

Ocho:
02:35:32
But, also, they do have where you can gain extra experience by still doing the old things. Okay. So they'll be like, explore this, you know, kill kill this guy, you know, do some of the more things.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:35:44
This comes in, like ties back into, like, other countries we had about motivation. Right? Like, one of the things that battle pass system is good for is motivation to do something that you wouldn't normally do.

Ocho:
02:35:57
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:35:58
Right? Like, I can just keep doing whatever I'm doing, but, oh, the battle pass says I need, you know, 6 of this flower shit. Mhmm. Well, I better go figure out where that flower is and then go fight my way over there and then get them and fight my way back. Like I gotta go.

Ocho:
02:36:16
Which I which I think would be interesting, but in the way in Conan exiles, it was almost like craft 1 piece of armor, and you're just like, okay. And you have, like, I don't know.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:36:24
I did it. I've I've been there

Ocho:
02:36:26
for a reason. Yeah. And you and you go in and you're just like, alright. 6 fiber. Done.

Ocho:
02:36:29
I created I crafted, like, the I

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:36:32
mean is more where I could. I think it as I would have been loved to have craft 6 fiber. I don't remember doing a lot of those. Like,

Ocho:
02:36:40
yeah. Maybe after 1st written level.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:36:42
I even had to do the reroll thing because my character was lower level and couldn't do some of the ones that were coming up. I was like,

Brandon:
02:36:48
Yeah.

Ocho:
02:36:48
There's no I

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:36:49
couldn't do almost all of them. Next.

Ocho:
02:36:51
I just I just recently restarted, and, yeah, it was like it was like, go do this, and I was like, I can't. Go do this. I can't. Pick 10 berries. Okay.

Ocho:
02:37:00
I can do that. I can I can pick 10

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:37:02
berries? Berries. If you can't kill 5 rhino, fuck off. You know? Like, where are the rhinos?

Ocho:
02:37:08
Collect and I Collect shards of ice, and I'm like, I'm nowhere near fucking ice. Where are we gonna find ice? Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:37:14
Yeah. Yeah. So I but I do I do like it in general, and I did like that they had the reroll mechanic in it.

Ocho:
02:37:21
So, like So I think it was a I think that they're basically from from my understanding, I think they're actually gonna have it's gonna be like a combination of both that you could basically do anything and it helps level up the system, but then there are also you can get You can

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:37:33
do you can boost it.

Ocho:
02:37:35
Yes. You could boost it by basically going and doing the things that it wants you to do, the challenges. Yeah. Yeah. Which is a good way to do it.

Ocho:
02:37:44
I I would appreciate

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:37:45
that, man. Like, I I would all I guess I would only be opposed if, like, it was just if it didn't have any boosts. Right? If it was like, oh, we got rid of it altogether. Just play.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:37:55
I'd be like, well, now I don't wanna play. I have nothing to do.

Ocho:
02:37:58
Yeah. And part of it's like, right, they're like, go explore this thing, and you're like, there's that thing? Because ConanX Files doesn't really hold your hand almost at all to tell you where anything is. You have to basically explore all

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:38:11
deep crafting system. Like, holy fuck.

2TonWaffle:
02:38:14
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:38:15
That thing There's a lot

2TonWaffle:
02:38:16
of trial and error there.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:38:18
That thing desperately needs an overhaul, and I don't envy them. I know I have a fair idea of what happened. It's, like, they just kept adding more stuff on.

Ocho:
02:38:29
Yes. And I

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:38:30
think they did overhaul it, like, once a little bit, but it I think it needs it needs a bit of a rework on how the whole crafting and, like, the prerequisites, like, function like, not how they function, but how they're displayed to you. Yes.

Ocho:
02:38:46
It's how

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:38:46
they're displayed to you. Yes. Things and then figure out what thing you need to do to unlock that thing.

Ocho:
02:38:55
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:38:55
Like, it's super hard to actually find that, and some of them are

Ocho:
02:39:01
I agree.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:39:01
I don't know. I I it might just be because of the year they were added or, like, what stage the game was at when those when those specific things got added, but some of them are way more disconnected than others. Some of them are it's more obvious, like, oh, I need this to get this thing.

Ocho:
02:39:18
And then other ones are background color is, like, red. It's like you can't get it. When it's tan, it's like you can get it because you've unlocked the previous things.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:39:27
Yeah. But I think, like, trying to be like, I want this one, but I can't. Well, why? Right? And then, like, I think I think I remember looking at it when I was playing it.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:39:40
I think it doesn't properly dis tell you, that you can't do something because of a level requirement. Like, it doesn't Yeah. Easily display to you that part. Like, you'll see, like, oh, I wanna do this, and the prereq is this and this and this. Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:39:57
But this middle pre this middle prereq is like, you need to be level 35. Well, fucking tell me that. I'm level 15. I'm not gonna do that right now.

Ocho:
02:40:06
You're like, I just did this one, and I got this one that I needed. I got this one that I needed, and then that one is level 35. So I was like, you can't even do any of it until you get to that one.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:40:14
Yeah. So, like, the whole thing needs to like, the the visual interface for it and the way things are linked needs to be

Ocho:
02:40:23
redone. Free. Almost like a

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:40:27
It just needs to be redone. Like and not and even if you use the same, like, system, I guess, like, the linkage and how it displays needs to be fixed. Right? Like, even if you're like, we don't wanna redo the whole UI. We wanna keep using that UI or whatever.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:40:44
Like, the organization of it and the how it tells you what thing to do before it. And if it's red, like, why the fuck is it red? Mhmm. Right? Or display level recs on the actual thing.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:40:58
Because figuring out that you can't get it is actually, like, 15 clicks or something. Like, it's

Ocho:
02:41:05
And this is where I will I will tout, no man's skies, basically solution to this. And that is that if you have something that has all these other things that you have to get you have to unlock before it, which is standard.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:41:19
Yeah. Yeah. That

Ocho:
02:41:20
survival mechanic at this point Sure. That you click on the one thing, and it'll tell you it will tell you in a list. It'll be like, you need this, this, this, this, this. And it's like and if you want, if you already have all the items for that one thing, you can just say, just craft that one thing, and it'll just be like, and it'll it'll circle down, or it'll basically say it's this, and this is found in this location. And so I was like, oh, okay.

Ocho:
02:41:43
Alright.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:41:44
I did like But, also, I did the beta test for once human. Right? Play the shit out of that. It's supposed to be it was supposed to be the end of this month, but I think it's now, like, 1st week of April or something is the next beta.

Ocho:
02:41:57
Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:41:57
But one thing that was really cool on that one is, with some rare exception, when you're crafting stuff, it'll just pull stuff in from your storage chest.

Ocho:
02:42:08
Yeah. So

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:42:09
you just have to have it on you. Yeah. Whereas a lot of games, if you put it in the chest, you can't actually use it. It's in the chest. Right?

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:42:16
So, like, but they made it they made it so, like, yeah,

Ocho:
02:42:19
codecs has to have it on you. It's like Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:42:22
There's, like, a couple weird exceptions to that. At least there was. And maybe it's a bug and they're fixing it. I'm not really sure. But for the most part, you know, all of your stuff, you you could separate out in a bunch of different chests and be like, this is this is ores and this is this and this is that.

Ocho:
02:42:36
Right? Right?

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:42:36
And then you gotta build something. It's like, as long as you have it in one of those, it's gonna it's gonna pull from there, which I remember in the Dune Direct, they talked about having that same feature in Dune. So Dune is gonna have the whole, like, if you have the resource, you have the resource thing.

Ocho:
02:42:55
Good. Good. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:42:56
And they're also doing that co op building where you can, like, put a blueprint down, and your buddy can just come along and drop material on it and and just basically fill it up with material until it has enough to create.

Ocho:
02:43:11
And then not only that and I feel like they learned from this from Conan Exiles where you could actually take the entire property that you've built, turn the entire thing into a blueprint, and then turn around and sell that blueprint to other players.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:43:25
I don't know if once human has the selling thing, but they definitely have the move your whole bases 1, and then it has the blueprint thing. But they had also the blueprint thing. I just don't know if they did the the you can trade it thing or not.

Ocho:
02:43:40
But I think it's because there's such a community in Coded Exiles that's like you know, you've you've seen them. It's like a video of how to build this

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:43:46
whole Tashmah Hall. Tashmah Hall. Tashmah Hall.

Ocho:
02:43:49
The city. Just a city out in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. Like yeah. And so you could actually take that whole thing.

Ocho:
02:43:56
All the time that you put into doing that, you could take that take that giant thing and then sell the entire thing just as a blueprint to someone else. That's so cool. It's such a cool idea.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:44:05
I I think it would have a lot of especially, like, something like Dune, right, where you probably would see, like like, like, guilds and stuff. Right? Mhmm. Like, houses?

Ocho:
02:44:15
Houses, I guess. Yeah. That's probably what they're gonna

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:44:17
do with. Yeah. You you you'd have that sort of, like, faction kinda thing or or, like, guild or cabal or whatever. It would make sense. Like, you could be like, hey.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:44:27
You've you've got a really cool faction. Do you want this, like, badass castle for your Yeah. Right? I may I designed this, and it's all gonna be like, I'm buying that for my guild. Here we go.

Ocho:
02:44:38
I I bought a city. Resources.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:44:42
We got we got, you know, castle Frankenstein in

Ocho:
02:44:45
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:44:45
Or something.

Ocho:
02:44:46
So cool. Such such a cool idea. I would absolute 100%. Because part of, like like, yeah, playing Conan exiles or something, it's like, I make myself very utilitarian. I'm not a I'm not a designer.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:45:01
I make tree forts.

Ocho:
02:45:03
Yeah. It's like it's very, like, like, how's my property? It's a square. It's a square, and it's not exciting.

2TonWaffle:
02:45:10
You are a professional with the square brick, real buildings.

Ocho:
02:45:14
It's like and I may put in windows, but that's about as fancy as I get. Don't forget the door.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:45:19
Oh, so you have walls

2TonWaffle:
02:45:22
and ceilings.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:45:23
I make a tree for it. I climb to the top of the tallest tree and make a platform. And then I accidentally roll off the edge when I'm doing shit. But I don't like, I want the open the open view.

Ocho:
02:45:37
The open view. I mean, it's a good view.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:45:39
Yeah. Like, I I literally build on top of also, I have no idea how that will work in the new purge system. Like, I think I might just get screwed and not

Ocho:
02:45:48
get purge to the screws you. I wanna say I read somewhere that it will actually like, if there's no footpath to get to where your base is, that they will spawn inside the base.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:46:00
Well, no. I think that was a problem. I think that was something happening. I think that was a bug. I wanna say, I wanna say from one of the dev streams, it was like, if you just make your shit unreachable, then the purchase won't go to you, like, at all.

Ocho:
02:46:16
Like, you won't

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:46:17
spawn, and therefore, you don't get to load.

Ocho:
02:46:18
Like Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:46:19
Basically, like, you either are gonna engage in the content or you're not. So if you build your shit in outer space, the purge is not coming to you. You don't get to kill the purge commander and get the loot. Sorry.

Ocho:
02:46:29
Yeah. Like, you gotta build on the ground, man. You gotta gotta gotta play by the rules.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:46:35
Like, I I like, I'm sure you can build, like, on a mountain or something as long as there's, like, a way to to get there.

Ocho:
02:46:41
As long as there's, like, a way to get up there. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:46:43
Yeah. But I've so I think for mine, though

Ocho:
02:46:45
You could still make a you could still make a a kill area.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:46:48
I I know. I I got an elevator, but I don't think they're allowed to use my elevator.

Ocho:
02:46:55
That'd be hysterical.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:46:56
Not really sure, but it'd be fucking hilarious to see, like, a couple of guys jam into the elevator and take it out. Oh,

Ocho:
02:47:02
hold on, guys. Hold on. Let's let's let's get in. Yeah. Pardon me.

2TonWaffle:
02:47:05
Excuse me. You can just imagine, like, the elevator music play as they're going up.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:47:10
I get to the top, and I just cleave them in the head. Next. Send the next 2.

Ocho:
02:47:15
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:47:16
Send the next 2. That's all that fits in the elevator.

Ocho:
02:47:18
It's amazing. It's an amazing thought. Yeah. Oh, that's funny. Yeah.

Ocho:
02:47:27
Send send the next guys off. The elevator comes down. It's just filled with blood. They're Oh, yeah. Get in.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:47:33
Elevator is pretty slow.

Ocho:
02:47:35
Because I'm The

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:47:36
next guys will be there. Like, it takes a little while to get down there, and we'll all come back up. I did build, like, an elevator, like, house. Like, it's got, like, a little like, a, like, a pumping station kind of you know what I mean?

2TonWaffle:
02:47:53
Like, it

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:47:54
has an enclosure around the elevator, like, a door and stuff. So, like, they'd have to break in the door, I guess.

Ocho:
02:47:59
I wanna say, like, there has to be because the new system has you purges don't just happen. It's you have to put down a treasure pile. And from your treasure pile, then purges will occur to come and steal your treasure.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:48:14
Yeah. Yeah.

Ocho:
02:48:15
Yeah. So, I think they're, like it there has to be a path to get to the treasure as I think is what it is.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:48:24
It's some weird shit, though. Like, you know, what if you what if you have a treasure pile and you you just build out off of a cliff and then you let them go to the treasure pile and then you break the floor, will they all fall down and die?

Ocho:
02:48:41
Is that a

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:48:41
Some pile of shit. Like a

Ocho:
02:48:44
like a Sims thing where you're like, oh, yeah. Get in the pool, and you take away the

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:48:50
the, like, the ladder. What happens what happens if mid purge, right, they all rush the pile that's hanging off the cliff by, like, 6 blocks, and then I destroy the 1st block, and so it all just falls, like, does that work? Can I do that? I wanna find out.

Ocho:
02:49:12
Could be. Maybe. Sounds like a fun experiment.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:49:17
And if that doesn't work, what if underneath the floor, I've captured a bunch of alligators? And then and then I drop the floor off, and they don't die, but they just fall into a pit of aligator. I'm just saying.

Ocho:
02:49:35
I mean I mean, it sounds like something you could totally do.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:49:39
Just you just have, like, your treasure room is just filled with, like, rent like, animals you've managed to, like, hurt like, somehow get to chase you in there. And then wall

Ocho:
02:49:50
treasure pile and right. Get get them in there. Turn around. Leave.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:49:56
Like, alright. It's a we have a Scrooge McDuck treasure pile and Jurassic Park. Let's let the purge commence.

Ocho:
02:50:05
No. What did I notice? Because in restarting playing, even even from the because I took your advice, and, I said that, like, by previous save, which even though you have to connect to the server to play single player, you have to you have to somehow connect online to play single player, but then it doesn't save your progress on the server. And so I thought it did because I was still connecting to the online service to play the single player. But so I was like, I assumed that it just saved the progress.

Ocho:
02:50:36
So I didn't when I switched computers, I didn't move over those data files to save my game.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:50:41
Right. Remember talking about that. Yeah.

Ocho:
02:50:43
Yeah. Yeah. So I was like and you were like, yeah, just start over. They've they've done so much, and I was like, alright. You know what?

Ocho:
02:50:47
Yeah. That sounds

2TonWaffle:
02:50:51
fair. I'll start over. So I did.

Ocho:
02:50:52
I started over, and Lut's different. Like, Lut is so much different than it was, and I guess it has to do with the the treasure aspect that some stuff is now just considered treasure. And so you can like a like a shrunken head or something like that. It's like, this is treasure.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:51:09
So you

Ocho:
02:51:09
go and you put it in put it in your treasure pile, or I've just been storing it in a, just a just a chest. But I've noticed that what what has been dropping a lot of that I wasn't expecting was taxidermied animals. Just a metric ton of of taxidermied animals. So, like, every animal.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:51:29
I've got, like, a whole thing just so, like, so I have my tree fort. Right? It's 1 giant flat top on top of the top of the tree as high as it'll go.

Ocho:
02:51:39
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:51:39
And then I had to build, like in the center, I had to build, like, 3 walls. I left one side open

Ocho:
02:51:48
Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:51:48
Because up on top of that is where my, worship thing for the cannibal god goes.

Ocho:
02:51:53
Yes.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:51:55
As you do.

Ocho:
02:51:56
As you do.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:51:57
And so, like, underneath in that area is where I put my little hide from the sandstorm hut. Like, it's just, like, 4 walls and a door.

Ocho:
02:52:06
Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:52:07
Because I like the whole open concept, but you need to be able to hide from the sandstorm. Right? So I've got my little closet to hide

Ocho:
02:52:12
from the sandstorm. Not anymore. The sandstorm, I think they really defanged. All you need is the medium armor, like, the basic medium armor, and that's good enough. And the sandstorms don't affect you anymore.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:52:26
Well, I'm often times just not wearing armor. So, anyways, I have my closet, my little bathroom, and then I have to

Ocho:
02:52:32
be fair. I'm just waving in the wind.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:52:36
Yeah. So Yeah. You don't

2TonWaffle:
02:52:38
wanna get sand in certain places.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:52:42
So, but, yeah, so underneath there, I I got the same thing and, like, all the tax army stuff. I just started, like, placing it, like, everywhere. I've got it looks like a goddamn, like, hunter's lodge. Like, just it's just covered. And then so you've got the you've got the ones you mount, and then, yeah, the taxidermy ones, like, full full, like, statues, basically.

Ocho:
02:53:04
Just Now I know it's an it's an ability in the game. It's it's a thing that you can you can, you know You do. You can you can get points into, and you can actually make the taxidermy stuff yourself. I was just surprised at just how often it was dropping as just loot from anybody. And it's like

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:53:20
Apparently, lots of rep of people that live in that exile lands are taxidermists.

Ocho:
02:53:26
A lot of taxidermists. Right. And it's, like, not small taxidermied stuff either. So it's like, you know, oh, I killed that guy. What does he got on him?

Ocho:
02:53:34
A 12 foot crocodile. Great. Like

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:53:38
I'm telling you, dude, I should get a picture of it. Like, I have like, my it it looks like a like a Jumanji hunters, like, lodge. Like, it's crazy. Because every time I get one of them, I just find another spot to put it up. I've got, like, 30 mounted heads of varying types and, like, 5th I don't know, like, 15 different, like, taxidermy things all

Ocho:
02:54:00
stacked in there. Like, like, every every taxidery thing I've found at every, like, red stuffed head, it's like that goes on the wall there. That's on there. There and it's just, like, it's just it's it's fleshing out, like, a bedroom area. It's fleshing it out, and it's like, that's kinda cool.

Ocho:
02:54:13
I do like that. But it's just weird.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:54:16
I added the

Ocho:
02:54:16
How much

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:54:17
the banners. You know, you get the banners. Mhmm. And then, like, the skull, like

Ocho:
02:54:23
Yep.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:54:23
What are they called? Like, the skull wind chimes, basically.

Ocho:
02:54:27
Yep. Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:54:28
Right? So every time you get one of those, I put it up around my my, worship pit to YOG. So there's just a shit ton of them.

Ocho:
02:54:37
It's like, yeah, they're basically, like, you get so

2TonWaffle:
02:54:38
many just decoration

Ocho:
02:54:39
items from anything you can. It's like

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:54:43
wild, honestly. Even now it's been, like, hands out.

Ocho:
02:54:47
It hasn't been that long since I played Conan Exiles. Like, I was but I was shocked. I was like I think it was it was certainly before certainly before the new age of war, I think.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:55:01
They did. They definitely, like, overhauled a lot of stuff. And I will say even though I have problems with the UI, like, it probably is technically better than the last time I I did it, especially considering how much is in there because they also just keep, like, every DLC adds more shit to there. You know what I mean?

Ocho:
02:55:20
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:55:20
So, like, I understand that it's like a problem, kind of. There's not an easy solution to. No. But they definitely need to do something because it's it's it's pretty rough. It's pretty rough to try and actually use it, especially as a newer player.

Ocho:
02:55:35
Especially as a newer player.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:55:35
I think if you're I think if you're already established, then you it probably doesn't matter, and you just whatever you need to click, you click because you already have the prerequisites anyways. But when you're first starting your character in that monstrosity, like, it's really hard to figure out, you know, what what thing you thing you need.

Ocho:
02:56:00
Okay. The time that I played before was in May of 2023. That was, like, when I finished up the last round of Conan that I played was it was then, and I just started playing again, just this past month.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:56:14
Yeah. So almost

Ocho:
02:56:15
earlier this month.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:56:16
Close to a

Ocho:
02:56:17
year? So almost a year. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:56:19
Yeah. And it was

Ocho:
02:56:20
like, when I played then, all that stuff wasn't dropping, and now it's all dropping. And it's like Yeah. It's it's it's a cool shift. It's a cool change. For sure.

Ocho:
02:56:29
Also, more armor is dropping. Just more better armor is dropping as well.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:56:35
There's more stuff in general.

Ocho:
02:56:37
Just more stuff. Yeah. Just more useful stuff. Just more useful loot. So I've been like, okay.

Ocho:
02:56:42
But, yeah, like, you kill somebody and you get, like, you know, oh, I have this gazelle that I, that I texted. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:56:49
Dude, a lot of them are have gazelle heads for some reason. I don't know why. But I mean, there's a ton of people walking around with, like, like, mounted gazelle heads.

Ocho:
02:57:00
Yeah. So cultured. These people are so cultured. God, I appreciate them. You're like, I thought you were just a cannibal, but apparently, you've got

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:57:10
You also hide a mountain gazelle head up your ass. Yeah. I'm not sure if that makes you cultured.

Ocho:
02:57:15
Yeah. You were carrying it. That's the weirdest part. Where else would you put it?

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:57:19
You were carrying it, but it wasn't visible. That's what I'm trying to point out here.

Ocho:
02:57:24
That's right. Yeah. Be like, you looked pretty naked to me. I don't know where you were you were hiding a how to get creepy. But but MMOs do that, though.

Ocho:
02:57:33
MMOs are are notorious for that. So it's I've told you about the weirdest drop I've ever had. Right?

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:57:40
Probably. I don't I don't remember. I had.

Ocho:
02:57:43
I was playing Shroud of the Avatar, which is not a popular game, and it's not really that great either. It's it's it has plenty of issues. But but even for MMOs, it's like, yeah, it's got a lot it's got a lot of weird issues. But one system that it had was anything, and I really like this one, is that anything that somebody sold to a vendor, like, anything that you sold to a vendor ended up on a drop list so someone else in the world could acquire it.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:58:13
Oh, okay. So It's kinda cool.

Ocho:
02:58:15
Yeah. So if you, like, made a sword, you would like you made, like, a good sword, and you you attached your name to it, and you just sold it to a vendor instead of, like, the auction system because the auction system was actually kind of weird. You had to buy a house, you had to buy a property, then you had to get, like, a a store for your house. And so people would come to your house and buy your buy your stuff. And there wasn't, like, an overall auction house.

Ocho:
02:58:41
So if you wanted to go searching for something, you really had to go searching for something. You'd go from house to house to house to basically see what people were selling. So but if you just vendored it, then it ended up on a drop list. And so you would kill something, and suddenly you get the sword, and it's like the sword is. And it would say the player that made the sword.

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:58:59
Right. Right.

Ocho:
02:59:00
And it's like, that's cool. And then you could actually run into that player and be like, holy shit. I had your shit. Like, I

JimmyTheRabbit:
02:59:07
Oh, you got my trash.

Ocho:
02:59:09
Yeah. And it's it's a cool, thing except for if someone is just trying to, like, level up through the crafting system, they could just make whatever. And when you make something new, you get a bunch of experience for it. So it behooves you to basically make everything that you can that's new, obviously. And so I was fighting in this, like, you know, random area.

Ocho:
02:59:30
I killed something something basic. It was just like a bore or something like that, and what dropped was a 2 story house.

2TonWaffle:
02:59:44
Wizard of Oz.

Ocho:
02:59:48
And it was, like and the way Shroud works is basically their housing system is you buy the plot, and then you could put whatever house you want on that plot. But you bought the plot, and then you pay taxes on the plot, and so the house was separate than the plot itself. And so I just found it weird that it's like so what so what dropped was, yes, a 2 story, like, row home or something like that. I'm like, great. Okay.

Ocho:
03:00:11
Yes.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:00:13
So that was in the boar's back pocket. Right.

Ocho:
03:00:17
I was like, that is the silliest thing I think I've ever got to drop in a video game.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:00:23
That is pretty that is pretty ridiculous. I I

Ocho:
03:00:25
am a fan of mine. Fantastic system, though. But a system that is, like that I that I will go up and down and say, like, no. This is a great thing. Thing.

Ocho:
03:00:33
If you sell something to a vendor, it'll it like, you know, if you sell crafted items to a vendor or just any item to a vendor, it will end up in somebody's drop list from killing things. I'm like, that is a that is a fantastic idea. That is leaning into the idea that, the loot that you pick up from a creature doesn't have to make sense. You know? It's, like, it's just leaning right into that.

Ocho:
03:00:54
Saying, like, how did this how did this murloc end up with a recipe for

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:00:59
So I do think it would almost be cooler, though, if it in some ways, if it did make sense. Obviously, you wouldn't get the shock factor of a 2 story house dropping from a boar. No. But it But it would kinda be cool if someone did a system like that, but actually, like, was was like, this enemy type uses a slashing weapon. So these slashing weapons have been vendored.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:01:27
So drop 1 of you know what I'm saying?

Ocho:
03:01:29
Yeah. Make it a little more custom.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:01:31
Make it actually, like, type wise kind of bound. Now maybe a wizard could drop a 2 story house because fuck it. Right? Right? Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:01:41
Like, that could work. Mhmm. But but it would probably be

Ocho:
03:01:44
Like, stuff that drops off of animals should be a little more animals.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:01:48
Necklaces. They swallow that shit or something. You know? Yeah. Like, it's something that would, like, makes like, make a little more sense.

Ocho:
03:01:59
But I still I just love that idea. I just love that idea.

Brandon:
03:02:01
But yeah. No.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:02:01
It is a cool idea.

Ocho:
03:02:02
Yeah. I was like, and I haven't seen any other game do that. Maybe for that I don't I don't even know if it's for that reason, but it's like, I've I haven't seen any game do that. But in Shroud of the Avatar, you could also, like, make your own book. You could also write your own book and put it in the world.

Ocho:
03:02:19
And so what people would do also is it would be like, I have an event going on, so I'm going to make up a whole bunch of, like, flyers in game for this event, and then I'm going to sell them to the vendor. So you would kill something, and you would just pick up like, hey. We normally do, like, you know, like, if if we were if they did that in secret world, we'd make a whole bunch of these pamphlets for our show, and we would drop them. And it'd be like so it would kill something. It also would get, like, 0 point report Thursday night.

Ocho:
03:02:49
You know?

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:02:50
Right. Right.

Ocho:
03:02:53
And, again, it's like, that's such a interesting idea. It's such an interesting idea. I love it. I love that concept of, just that anything could drop. Just anything.

Ocho:
03:03:08
Anything. But mostly, it's stuff that is made that's not just a droplets. It's a droplets that's created by players too. Like, that that interaction. And so it makes me wonder

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:03:19
can do it. Even anyone. Yeah. That's a nestle run to Marsal.

Ocho:
03:03:26
So right. So they're making they're making the Dune, game. They specifically said it's an MMO. It's an MMO. So Yeah.

Ocho:
03:03:33
And so to what extent, you know, is it gonna be like new world? Is it gonna be because new world is also sort of a survival MMO system. Like, is it gonna be like that? Is it gonna be I guess I guess we'll have to find out, really.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:03:48
I don't I don't know. It's

Ocho:
03:03:50
it's a Yeah.

2TonWaffle:
03:03:51
We really don't know exactly how it's gonna line up one particular way or another.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:03:56
No. I just meant I'm just just referring to the new world part. Like, I don't is it really survival?

Ocho:
03:04:01
I mean, it's not really sort it's survival in that, like, you need, you know,

2TonWaffle:
03:04:06
oh, I need a whole craft.

Ocho:
03:04:07
Wood, and I need a whole bunch of Yeah. You craft stuff,

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:04:10
but I don't I don't

Ocho:
03:04:11
But not survival isn't like you need to eat, you need to

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:04:15
drink. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:04:16
Not like that. But Dune definitely is gonna have, like, hey. You need water.

Ocho:
03:04:21
Dune absolutely is going to have that. Yeah. That resource.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:04:23
Like, you're gonna fucking die.

Ocho:
03:04:26
Yeah. Sort of like Conan exiles, but in Conan exiles, you very quickly get away from that. Like, finding water and finding food is you know, becomes trivial.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:04:34
It's not super difficult, which, I mean, I I think is fairly a good thing in that system.

Ocho:
03:04:39
I'm like

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:04:40
I mean, you still can so you can screw it up. You can just not be paying attention and be like, oh, oh, shit.

Ocho:
03:04:45
Oh, shit. Yeah. Oh, shit. I'm, I'm starving, or you could die somewhere and then respawn to your bedroll completely naked and not have any food or drink on you.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:04:57
Yeah. Yeah.

Ocho:
03:04:57
Yeah. And then corpse

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:05:01
down on

Ocho:
03:05:01
spawn back. I don't even know.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:05:02
You would I you would do what I did multiple times in the same stream is you're adventuring in the mountains, in the ice areas, in the volcano snow bullshit, and, and then you you make a bedroll there. And then you go all the way back to your base, and you're doing some shit, and you accidentally hit alt and backwards roll off your tree fort to your death and respawn to goddamn dead roll naked in the goddamn mountains and have to run across the entire fucking map to get back to your base. Damn it. Only to climb up, get your shit from your dead body on the ground, climb up, forget to interact with your bed again, start fucking around with shit, and again backwards roll off your feet floor and spawn at the fucking volcano within the span of, like, 20 minutes.

Ocho:
03:05:59
And, I mean, you can turn off, there is a setting to turn off the, if you're if you're playing on your own server or whatnot, or solo, you can turn off the what happens on death. You could say,

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:06:11
you know,

Ocho:
03:06:11
either do the way the game is or just, nah, just respawn me.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:06:16
Play. I tend to play, like, normal, like, whatever the normal settings are.

Ocho:
03:06:21
Yeah. Normal settings

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:06:22
are This is another area where, like, you can get kinda like the tabletop shit. You can get a little too power creepy.

Ocho:
03:06:29
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:06:29
And then it starts to lose value. Like, you don't feel like you're like, oh, well, I can just make everything happen 50 times faster and make myself invincible, and then why am I playing this game again?

Ocho:
03:06:40
Like Yeah. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:06:41
Sort of lose motivation. So, like, I try and, like, not to do that shit. But

Ocho:
03:06:46
Right. Like, actually, when I played, I found that the experience that you get from just surviving, like a like a background tick of experience just by not doing anything Mhmm. Was a little too high for my liking. Like, I was just I would just be, like, all of a sudden just just sitting there for a while. I go to the bathroom, come back, and it's like, you're level 2 now.

Ocho:
03:07:11
Are you

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:07:12
And you disconnected. Yeah.

Ocho:
03:07:15
Oh, no.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:07:16
Why? Nope. You're back. Oh, there you are. You said level 2, and then

Ocho:
03:07:21
you disappeared. Oh, no. I kept hearing you guys, so it must have just been me. Okay. But, like, you would, like, I'd like, I'd go to the bathroom, come back, and I'm like like, level 3.

Ocho:
03:07:31
And it's like, what? I didn't I didn't do anything. I didn't

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:07:36
Well, you continue to survive, see. So that was That's

Ocho:
03:07:39
and that's the point. Yeah. It's sort of like you just get a background survival tick. And so I was like, no. I'm gonna take that and lower that.

Ocho:
03:07:46
I'm gonna take that and shove that all the way down to the bottom. Just because it's like, I feel like I need to do something in order to gain the experience. Yeah. Crafting, chopping down trees, killing things, Just getting it just by standing around, it didn't feel didn't feel that worthwhile. But, yeah, it's fun.

Ocho:
03:08:13
Also, in playing new world, which I've also done recently, It's very easy to tell what Scrivenomancer wrote for new world.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:08:23
Yeah. Right?

Ocho:
03:08:25
I've been going through I've been reading the things, and it's just like, okay. Some basic stuff there is basic stuff there, and a dancing plague of people dying madness inflict okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah.

Ocho:
03:08:39
That's Griv. That's got that's got screws Handiwork written all over it. I was like, mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Ocho:
03:08:46
Alright. So, we can talk about one other thing, but, I feel like at this point, it's a little late, and it would be for, Vommer's announcement. And they weren't able to join us tonight. So I don't feel like, I'd be doing it justice if I brought it up now or I'd be talking about Yeah. So

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:09:18
Maybe we can cover that more in-depth on the on the next one.

Ocho:
03:09:22
Yeah. And even have armor on, maybe. Yeah. Yeah.

2TonWaffle:
03:09:26
Sounds good.

Ocho:
03:09:27
I don't I don't mind. I like having I like having guests. Guests are always fun. But, anyway, I think we're good. Anything else?

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:09:37
Well, I mean, not not really.

2TonWaffle:
03:09:39
I'll pretty much

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:09:39
it for now. Heard most of the doom stuff. That's That

Ocho:
03:09:43
that's that's everything I had to get

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:09:45
it. Floating.

Ocho:
03:09:46
Nice conversation with, with Brandon.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:09:49
Yeah, man. Brandon. I mean, kinda already talked about my new run in in there somewhere.

Ocho:
03:09:56
In there somewhere. Right. Your new run of the, the lights out lights out run.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:10:01
Which oh, I will okay. Real quick. I will say I when I loaded in the game today, and this is a different different account, different copy of the game, I was freaking out because I was like, holy shit. I've been playing the lights out too much because Agartha looks bright as fuck. Like, I was like, there's no way this is how it normally looks.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:10:20
Like, something looks wrong.

2TonWaffle:
03:10:22
I was

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:10:22
like, is my eyes just gotten adjusted so much to playing the dark one that, like, everything just seems super bright now? No. Somehow so Steam will take its settings from the last Funcom client that logged in.

Ocho:
03:10:38
Okay. And

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:10:41
which I have that character on there, but somehow the the the mod must set a setting. It set the light effects down to 0. The light's light your Like, if you if you literally go to settings, like like, menu settings, video options

Ocho:
03:11:01
Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:11:02
Advanced, lighting detail was all the way down to 0.

Ocho:
03:11:06
Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:11:07
So I think it must be something the mod does on my other client, but it saved that setting to, like, where the steam copy reads stuff from. So when I loaded in, my lighting detail was 0, but that just means, like, everything is set at, like, I guess, no detail, just max bloom or something. Like like, there's no there's no gradation. Right? There's no, like, shadow.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:11:31
It's just everything's lit full.

Ocho:
03:11:33
Was it lighting

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:11:34
So it was exactly detail. They put that down. Fucking Agartha's bright as yellow. Like, did playing lights out fuck with my eyes? No.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:11:43
The mod just fucked with my client.

Ocho:
03:11:45
Oh my gosh. It does. Yes. I just turned my lighting detail down to down to 0.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:11:53
You wanna check that just so people see what the hell I'm talking about?

Ocho:
03:11:56
Yeah. No. Totally.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:11:57
Settings, second from the bottom, video, and then advanced. So you take lighting detail

Ocho:
03:12:06
Lighting detail.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:12:07
From 4 to 0 and hit apply. And so if you resume, that's what I loaded into today. It was like, oh my god.

2TonWaffle:
03:12:23
It's so bright.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:12:25
I was like I I was like, no. Did real did playing the game in the dark really fuck with me? Is is this how Agartha normally looks? And I was walking around, like, this does not seem right.

Ocho:
03:12:35
Like, this is freaking out. This can't be right. Right. So I

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:12:38
went to look at my settings and figured out, like, oh, okay. It's the lighting. Like, somehow the mod messed with the lighting detail, not carry over.

2TonWaffle:
03:12:46
Like, out here is is normal.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:12:48
Yeah.

Ocho:
03:12:48
There it looks looks relatively I don't know. In here in

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:12:52
But when you change it, especially in the especially in the center, it's super bright in the center.

Ocho:
03:12:58
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:13:00
And so, like, once you put it back, right, you'll you'll see, like, shadowing and stuff. Like, it actually doesn't look like the fucking sun is sitting in the center there.

Ocho:
03:13:11
That's amazing.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:13:12
But, yeah, that did that totally but, like, I started this up, like, right before we started the show, and, like, it totally fucked with me ahead for a little bit. I was like, I just thought this was my eyes fucking with me and not the game. You know?

Ocho:
03:13:27
Let me turn all my back on. What Actually, I don't mind. I

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:13:29
I still need to, like, edit it and stuff and get it out there, but I will have a new video coming out probably over the weekend or early next week of a lava game in the dark.

Ocho:
03:13:42
Very nice.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:13:43
Lava game

Ocho:
03:13:43
in the dark. Okay. You got it? Of course you did.

2TonWaffle:
03:13:45
Yeah. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:13:46
You know what? Come on. What kind of

Ocho:
03:13:48
what kind

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:13:49
of comment is that?

Ocho:
03:13:50
Yeah. Oh, you completed Lava Game?

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:13:52
Did you do the achievement?

Ocho:
03:13:54
Did you get it? Of course, you did. Of course, you did. Yeah. What am I what am I saying?

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:13:57
Go on. It did take a little bit longer than I thought it would, though not as long as the side scroller one. That one is still fucking, like, doing trigonometry in your head to figure out. The the biggest prob

Ocho:
03:14:10
the biggest problem what I think is one of the one of the cooler ones.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:14:14
That one is the most difficult for sure. That top down. Figure out a jump.

Ocho:
03:14:19
Top down was also really cool too.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:14:21
Like, top top down looks cool, but it it's way it's, like, way easier. You can see where you're going.

Ocho:
03:14:26
Yeah. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:14:26
Problem with side scroller is, like, especially, like, the second to last jump is, like, how do you jump to the tires you can't see on a plane you can't judge? Mhmm. So, like, using the mini map, lining up the feet, like, trying to, like, get it. So, like, okay. I'm gonna jump this way, and I'm gonna land on a tire this wide somehow.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:14:50
Like like, that shit was so difficult. I had a this that same jump was the problem, by the way. The problem was I can I was using a burning wrath, from hammer to, like Okay? Get it glows for a bit, like, on its own, you know, like, light up, the the area, but it doesn't light up nothing lights up far enough. I couldn't see the tire I was jumping to.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:15:15
So I was just jumping into a pitch black abyss, hoping I land on that little rubber tire. So it was it was a very similar problem to the sideways one. The difference is I I got to face the actual direction. Right? Like, I I still had to make a, I made a map marker on the mini map and pointed my little arrow got like, of your guy on the mini map at the dot to try and line up this the jump.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:15:42
But it quite literally was a jump in the dark, like, because I couldn't see that far. But it kinda looks neat because as I'm, like, jumping around on the cars and stuff. Mhmm. Like, the hammer energy is, like, pulsing and kinda, like, lighting up the cars, like, in, like, a fire glow.

Ocho:
03:16:01
Oh, nice. Okay. So is this spot? Is there any sprints? Do you have a sprint on that character that actually creates light around you?

Ocho:
03:16:11
Like, you've got right now, you've got the,

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:16:14
No. I don't. I thought about it. Right now, my character does have the sick the sick kicks, like, the white of sneakers.

Ocho:
03:16:23
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:16:24
I've got the the anniversary, like, pants and jacket that have the glowy hexagons. Yes. Honeycombs? I got the infernal gloves because the the red shards glow, and I have the ice, like, the winter chest and mask because the chest has like a Ironman looking blue circle, and then the mask has, like, some glowy dots. So they got, like, some random craft that glows so I can kinda see the character.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:16:56
I did I'd oh, I debated spending the $10 on the ghost runner sprint. I still might at some point. Okay. Because I you've seen Ghostrunner. Right?

Ocho:
03:17:07
No. Which one's that? Off the top of my head.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:17:09
Hold on. I I have it on my on my character. Hold on. Or not on it right now, but I can I can grab it? Where is that's shocking steps.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:17:20
Got here we go. Ghost rider.

Ocho:
03:17:24
Oh, okay. So it's like ghost rider. Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:17:28
You can even through the bunny head, you can kinda see the skull.

Ocho:
03:17:31
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:17:32
It's basically like the sats the sasquatch skull, just, like, green and, like, see through.

Ocho:
03:17:37
Okay. And then

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:17:37
you have, like, this green fire. So, like, I kinda thought that might be cool in the dark. Right? Because you'd see, like, a especially because that character doesn't have a bunny head.

Ocho:
03:17:49
Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:17:50
Right? Well, here. Look. We'll we'll do the the rare the rare removal of the Ah. The bonehead.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:18:03
Okay. Right. So, like, in the dark, that would probably look really cool. Like, even cooler. Right?

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:18:09
Because everything else is black, and it should light up like because everything is literally black, like, shit like this looks way cool because it's just, like, neon. Also, you know the when you have those missions where there there's the tracking initializes and the little blue shit glows on the ground?

Ocho:
03:18:28
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:18:29
That shit's awesome because there's no other textures. There's no it's just blue blinking lights. It's you can actually follow it.

Ocho:
03:18:39
It makes it super useful. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:18:42
Yeah. Yeah. It it really does.

Ocho:
03:18:44
That's amazing.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:18:47
So I might I might pick up that one at some point, but I also so, like, I'm kind of the main reason I I I didn't other than it's gonna cost me, like, $10 to go get. But the main reason I I didn't so far is, like, I kind of didn't wanna make things, like, too easy. Yeah. I mean, like, if if the things are too bright or if the thing I have emits, like, way too much light

Ocho:
03:19:12
Sort Sort of defeats the purpose of doing it in the dark in the first place.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:19:15
Yeah. I will say the mining I tested before I started the started the run. I did test on another character, the mining lamp, and that does work. So, and I already found the mission I basically can't do until I get the mining lamp. I can't do Helen back because, anything that you light up with your weapon, right, that's like bouncing off the geometry, but it doesn't light up the texture.

Ocho:
03:19:42
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:19:43
Right? So, like, I can't read the hell and back signs on the floor. I can't

Ocho:
03:19:51
see them. Yeah. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:19:53
Like, even if I smack the ground with abilities and it lights up the room, it doesn't light up the actual texture that lets you see what's what symbol is what. Right?

Ocho:
03:20:02
If you hold the mouse over it, does a does a little pop up come up or no?

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:20:06
I I do see the, like, the interact prompts with the names Yeah. But the guide doesn't have names. It just has numbers on the picture. I could probably spend some time on a different character that has lighting, like, translating it and writing down which names. But, honestly, it's probably better just to come back with the mining lamp.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:20:28
And for those specific things where you need to see, like, a texture, just have the headlamp and use the headlamp just for texture reading. Right?

Ocho:
03:20:38
Interesting way to do it. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:20:41
Because that does work. I did test that. Like, the headlamp works like you would expect headlamp to work. It's just that the, weapon effects aren't lamp effects. Like, they they they spread out across the geometry, and that acts as, like, sort of like a sonar or radar kind of imaging.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:20:57
Right? Like, you just and you can see it bounce off the edges, but it doesn't light up the actual texture.

Ocho:
03:21:04
No. No. It's a it's a topographical, I guess.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:21:08
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that's so I did discover that, but I don't think you actually get a headlamp until Blue Mountain.

Ocho:
03:21:19
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:21:19
I think. I think that's your first headlamp.

Ocho:
03:21:22
Yeah. No. It's 1 in in the mine. Yeah. No.

Ocho:
03:21:26
It'd be it would be the mine.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:21:27
I think it's the mine in Blue Mountain. I'm pretty sure. But, I mean, it's not a big deal. Like, I can deuce the other stuff, up until that point and then come back to do that mission assuming you'd be I'm still debating whether this is, like, a a casual run or, like, a 100% the zones. I'm not really sure yet.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:21:44
I'm just kind of screwing around, advancing the story. The cinematics have been kind of interesting.

Ocho:
03:21:50
I I watched, a bit of one where you're talking to Henry Hawthorne.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:21:55
You could see the reflection of his glasses.

Ocho:
03:21:57
No. It was, you're talking to Andy.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:22:02
Oh, okay. Yeah. So in the cinematics, you can tell that they've spotlit the cinematics in certain cases because those spotlights stay. Mhmm. Like, it'll be completely black, but they'll like, on Andy, there was, like, a, like, kind of a spotlight.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:22:18
And then in the part where you talk to or where you where you go and you hide and Beaumont and Cassie are talking Mhmm. That shit was, like, pitch black at first, and then they go over by the maps, and all of a sudden they're lit from, like, a certain angle. Okay. Like, they've actually done lighting in the cinematics in certain spaces to, like like, light the character a certain way, and those particular

Ocho:
03:22:44
things are Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:22:46
Yeah. So, like, the the normal lighting in the level is turned off, but it doesn't turn off like, I think if you saw the thumbnail even from, like, my first thumbnail for the for the first episode Yeah. Looking out over Kingsmouth, you could see, like, the lights above the doorways were on because those are, like, individual point lights and not part of, like, the volume lighting or something. Mhmm. So, like, in Kingsman, it's, like, pitch black except for, like, this little cone of light from the lamp above the door.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:23:18
That's cool. Like, every door.

Ocho:
03:23:20
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:23:20
So, yeah, it's it's a neat effect where it's not just like so I think it would be awful awful to from a viewing experience if it was just solid black all the time.

Ocho:
03:23:31
So, like, if you come in here to Agartha, like, are these, like, little lanterns that go on the, like, you see the useful. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:23:40
I can see how to get up. Yeah. Those are actually useful as fuck. It's like it's like landing lights for a plane.

Ocho:
03:23:49
Like,

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:23:50
and the underside actually looks really sparkly. If you look underneath, like, Gartha, like, have you ever been under like, in the center and look up?

Ocho:
03:23:59
I don't think so. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. I know what you're talking about.

Ocho:
03:24:02
Yes. That part.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:24:02
Yeah. So that that shit looks pretty pretty, cool.

Ocho:
03:24:06
I thought you meant, like, underneath the, the actual, like, ramps themselves. And I was like,

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:24:12
I Oh, no. I just meant under the under the main section, it has, like, those gangly stuff. Like, that actually looks pretty neat.

Ocho:
03:24:20
The dripping

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:24:22
I will say dripping. Probably one of the hardest things, of the run was getting out of Zern's room.

Ocho:
03:24:31
Okay.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:24:33
Yeah. So when you come out of the, you know playing as Illuminati? Okay. Yeah. When you come out of the tutorial, you don't have weapons anymore because you only have weapons in the tutorial dream.

Brandon:
03:24:48
Right.

Ocho:
03:24:48
You

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:24:48
have to go get your weapons from the person, which means I had no way to make any visual effect to see the ground. I could not fucking find my way out of that room for a little bit. I was trying to use a mini map, and, like, it wasn't like, I could not figure out where the fuck to go. Just bouncing around in the dark. And literally had nothing.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:25:12
Like, your character has nothing at that point. Like, 0. There's nothing I could do. Just stumble around trying to find the fucking door. And then I'd then once I was out in the main looming area, I've somehow very luckily found the training room because I'm pretty sure I've gotten lost trying to find the training room in the Lumi base with the lights on.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:25:38
Yeah. I'm pretty sure that's happened before. Like, what the fuck is this door? So somehow I found that pretty quickly. And then once I had the weapons, I was able to at least, you know, smash razor shards and get, like, kind of, like, an AOE visual around me for a split second.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:25:58
But I I eventually upgraded to ground pound. Ground pound's a pretty cool,

Ocho:
03:26:04
little Lightmaker. Whoop. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:26:06
That you can just spam because it's the basic. And then, burning wrath is the one that pulses. Like, you cast it once and it pulses for, like, 5 seconds or something.

Ocho:
03:26:16
Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:26:17
And it and it stays on you as you run. So that was the one I used for a lava game. That one's actually really useful because I can just cast it, run a few feet, you know, run for 5 seconds, cast it again, keep running. It's just and just constantly, it's like whooping out the whole time. So that that was pretty cool.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:26:35
Nice. But, yeah, this this just happened because of the death race run where I dropped the torch and was using the weapon as like a sonar. I was spamming abilities and noticed I could I could figure out my way out of out of the, like, hall. And you're like, can

Ocho:
03:26:52
I do this for the entire game?

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:26:54
And I was like, oh, that'd be sweet. And I know I know Fox had done some stuff with, like like, photo mode and, like, lighting, I think, before.

2TonWaffle:
03:27:04
Mhmm.

Ocho:
03:27:04
So I

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:27:04
was like, hey. Hit him up. What do you think about this? And, yeah, pretty cool. I'm I'm super happy with, with it so

Ocho:
03:27:17
far. Yeah. I know. And, yeah. Some of the screenshots that you have or some of the thumbnails that you have look really cool.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:27:23
Yeah. It's just it's just you know what, what's really funny is my character I made in the dark because I had the mod and I went to make the new character.

Ocho:
03:27:31
Mhmm.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:27:32
And the character creation screen had the lights out. So I couldn't see shit. I was like, yep. I think this looks fine. Next

Ocho:
03:27:42
They're like, sure. Yeah.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:27:44
And then turns out because in some of the cinematics, you know, they have the spotlighting. Turns out, it's a female character. It's got, like, the blue the 2 tone blue hair.

Ocho:
03:27:54
It's got, like,

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:27:55
green glowing eyes. Like, somehow accidentally made, like, the perfect, like, glow in the dark night character randomly because I didn't pick the eye color.

Ocho:
03:28:07
Literally got dressed in the dark.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:28:09
Literally got dressed in the dark, made a face in the dark, and it and it actually turned out really cool. So yeah. I'm,

Ocho:
03:28:18
Very cool.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:28:18
Pretty happy to have something else to to to fiddle around with.

Ocho:
03:28:22
It's a fun idea. It's a fun idea for sure. Alright. I'm losing steam at this point.

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:28:30
Yeah. It's I know. It's like it's it's, it's 101. 101. School's 1111, but it's 101.

Ocho:
03:28:37
It's close. 111. 1 it's getting there. 10 minutes. Oh, yeah.

Ocho:
03:28:41
Anyway, agents, this has been the 0 point report. Strain 90 dash e t t. You can catch us recording live Thursday nights when we can around around 9 PM EST. I put a real time at 9 PM this time, and we made it to, like, 9 20 or something,

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:28:57
I guess. It was close.

Ocho:
03:28:59
Here on the 0 Point Report Twitch channel, where you could also join us and chat with us while we do the show live or download our show wherever podcasts are found so you can listen to us on the go. Jimmy, where can we find you online?

JimmyTheRabbit:
03:29:11
You can find me on linktree slash jimmytherabbit.

Ocho:
03:29:14
Cool. Cool. 2 ton waffle. How about yourself? You've been very busy creating all kinds of new stuff.

2TonWaffle:
03:29:21
Yeah. I've been doing a little things here and there. Slow projects. You can find me at the 2 tonewaffle.com. That's my, place to go to as all

Ocho:
03:29:32
my links. Dotedu. Yep. And so one of my favorite jokes. And I'm Ocho.

Ocho:
03:29:41
You can find me on Twitch, blue sky and mastodon. Is that what I currently have? I haven't used mastodon in a while. All links also at linktree/bigmikeyocho. You can get in touch with us by engaging with the show on Twitter at 0 Point Report, checking out previous shows on our YouTube channel, and joining us on our Discord server, both named the 0 Point Report.

Ocho:
03:30:01
So from all of us here at the 0 Point Report, wanna thank you for tuning in and wish you all the best from the secret world. Have a great night, everybody, and we'll catch you next time. Bye. Bye, Scratch.