Interview with Matt Fudge, Part II: Commitment, Discipleship, and Some Laughs

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All right, we're back for part two.
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So, Matt, you had mentioned, you know, first eldership, there was joys, there was friction.
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And at one point you actually lost quite a few friends, people that you're close with and loved, just different philosophies of what the church should be doing.
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And I'm sure there was a temptation for for you and Amy of like, hey, should we stick it out here?
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Should we kind of use this as our opportunity to go to a different church now?
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So I know you've been here since you said earlier 2009.
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So it's coming up on close to 20 years in the middle.
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Yeah.
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I can't, I I should know the dates, but but I don't.
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But I I think it was 2008.
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Yeah.
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When we opened up shop, yeah.
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Yeah.
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So talk through.
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I'm sure there were temptations, like I mentioned, to hey, let's use this as an opportunity to switch churches.
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What's kind of led you guys to say, you know what, we're gonna bunker down, we're gonna plant roots here, we're gonna be here for the good times and the rougher times, and we're gonna be the better for it.
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Man, uh let me let me see.
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What why would that be?
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And just and just to be clear too, as a quick qualification for anybody else who might be listening to this, I wouldn't say we lost friendships.
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There's nobody where we had fallings out with personally.
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Yeah, yeah, just I mean, we we're no longer in one another's circles anymore.
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But I guess uh as a person, I am I don't know if if it's not like patting myself on the back too much, maybe say like I'm a very loyal person, I'm very slow to adopt, but when I adopt, I park and I and I stick with it.
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And and that's probably kind of part of it.
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I just look okay.
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This is an institution, I'm committed to this local church.
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I I was a leader at the time.
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There were only a couple of us elders, so it was a small group.
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That's that's definitely got to be another reason.
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I'm I'm an elder here, so I'm not just gonna go follow my friends out the door.
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You know, it's my my responsibility.
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And I was I was not at odds with the changes that we were making.
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So there wasn't a lot of things.
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Just for those who don't just for those who don't know, what were some of those changes that were going on?
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Basically just slimming down the the weekly calendar.
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Um we're not, you know, we we kind of decided, hey, we're we're not going to do you know a lot of siloed groups, additional activities, you know, lots of different ministries, things like that.
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We're we're going to keep we're going to keep our ministry calendar really lean and simple and try to try to really get parents to be the ones who are who are discipling their kids rather than looking for you know ministries within the church to be accomplishing that.
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And and just yeah really working on on fathers and and parents in general to be at home teaching their kids and giving their time to their fellow church members and living life together.
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But so there'd be a couple of reasons.
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Like again, like I I'm slow to adopt and then even more slow to move on from something, you know, once I've once I bought into it.
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And and I was also a leader at the time.
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Also, you know, the the the bottom felt like it was falling out, and it didn't feel like the right move to be one more person who you know would be out the door and maybe make it hard for the church to survive financially.
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Yeah, I think those those things kind of I just uh I just a philosophical commitment to the institution as well.
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Like I wanted to be open-handed about exactly how we did things.
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I myself had gotten to a point of just like burnout and not maybe not burnout, but just constantly feeling like I couldn't keep up.
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Yeah.
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With all like there's so many things I felt like I needed to be on top of.
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And like my schedule is being totally full.
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I remember meeting with Luke one time and him saying, Hey man, I want to give you permission to do less things.
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And I need I needed somebody to tell me that.
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And just seeing like, man, I I feel like this is a pattern that a lot of people fall into.
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Yeah.
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And and I I see I see the wisdom of it, even if we, even if our pathway to it was was not was not always good.
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Yeah.
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Because I asked this follow-up, not to say like church members never leave a mayus, like by all means, like there's legitimate reasons to to leave the church.
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Sure.
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But I do know for I mean you got deep relationships at OBC, you got deep relationships at Corum Deo, especially with Amy teaching at TCA.
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I'm sure some of the tribulations or the turbulent times, and also there was a season where you kind of took some rest, all the eldership.
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How did you kind of navigate the temptation to flee to a greener pasture if that was a temptation?
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Yeah, I mean, over a 20-year, 20-year period almost.
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I mean, there's times you kind of think like, oh, you know, would it would it ever be God's will for me to move on and move out and do something else?
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And I just I just think that what what what what I think about and what I prioritize is understanding what the church's mission and being good at the things that we are being committed, let's say being committed to doing the things that we are called to do and not allowing other things to kind of creep in and take our our focus off of that.
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There's you know a few things that are really important to me that I think that MAS does really well.
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And in addition to that, anytime I'm tempted to be, it's I can I can talk a little more about what that what that means, but anytime I a big part of it, anytime I'm tempted to go, uh, you know, maybe maybe it would be good to just have it have a change of scenery and and see how other people do things and you know, kind of like learn how people in other circles think, you know, kind of almost like an internship.
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I stop and think, like, man, this church I think is really healthy.
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And if I feel any kind of like simmering discontent, then maybe I need to ask myself what my problem is.
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Because like, why after being through a a long period of turbulence where it was just like a human paper chain, like who maybe is upset and leaving next for years, and then having this long period where it's like, you know, people pretty much are getting along and trusting the pastors and working together and making decisions in a lot of ways looks like a healthy marriage should look.
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Like, what why why you want to walk away from that?
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And and that that kind of checks me a little bit.
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And and all that to say, like, I don't sit around here and think about like, oh, like I I want to leave someday.
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I don't think that I could be here another 20 years.
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It's I I really appreciate this church for what it is right now, and I don't consider myself the architect of it, you know.
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The ideas came from other people, yeah.
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You know, Eric Raymond being one of those people, Luke being one of those people, yeah, as well.
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Uh, I would say the Eric in terms of the polity and Luke in terms of the culture.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Yeah.
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That's one of the things I really appreciate about you and Amy.
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I've talked to Amy about this topic a little bit with her just in private, and there was a kind of harsh situation due to my own issues for Lydia and I when we first got married, it was like, do we want to stick in the mayors?
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Which would be a little bit awkward right now, be hard, or do you want to kind of let's just restart somewhere?
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Yeah.
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And so I'm not sure if it was like, oh, let's be like the fudges, but just to have a model like you guys where it's hey, let's let's build long-term with some people.
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Yeah, it's not gonna go perfectly, toes will get stepped on, but toes are gonna get stepped on at any church that we go to.
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Yeah.
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And I I do think it's encouraging to see you guys be a members of a church for 15 plus years.
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I do think there's a a bad American, broadly evangelical culture of consumerism.
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Yeah.
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You're at church for three years, four years, oh, maybe five years.
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And then you kind of just you make your next pit stop.
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It's almost like your next yeah.
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And you're also just all looking around and saying, Okay, well, what do I want from church?
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Yeah.
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Am I getting what I want?
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Like this doesn't this doesn't seem like the way that I want it to be right now.
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Maybe the answer is I need to be somewhere else.
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Yeah.
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Maybe the answer is that you need to see if you can affect change where you are, and maybe the answer is that you need to think hard about what you think you should be getting from a church and what what you know what you're expecting.
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But it's a natural thing over time to just, you know, we you know, we uh we all kind of get itchy feet at various times.
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You if you're doing anything over a long period of time, you're gonna think about those things.
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I don't fault anybody for doing that.
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Yeah, but it's also good to just kind of know like what are your principles, what's important, what is a church called to do.
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Yeah, and that was a big conversation we had a lot during that really turbulent time is hey, as a church, we definitely must be doing this.
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Yeah.
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And you know, let's let's let's start with that and and and build out from there.
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Yeah, we need to be preaching the gospel, we need to be teaching the word of God, we need to be congregating together on Sunday mornings, and and the biblical pattern is that we walk in fellowship and live life together with one another.
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Like let's make sure we're we're putting effort into those things.
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Yeah.
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Not not to oversimplify, but so you're finishing up, I think you got one or two weeks left for your course on discipleship for Sunday school.
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And I think I've since I've been here for seven years, I think it's at least the third time you've taught through that series.
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It is the third time.
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I'm trying to think if my first time goes back further than that.
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Maybe not.
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Yeah.
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Because the first time I started off up in the balcony.
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I don't know if you remember that.
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Like it was like the first couple weeks.
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Yeah.
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Gotcha.
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Near and dear to my heart.
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Yeah.
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So talk to us about that.
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Obviously, it's very important to you.
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You just mentioned it's near and dear to your heart.
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This is something that you've taught through multiple times.
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Yeah.
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As a young believer, it was impressed on me the importance of doctrinal correctness, orthodoxy.
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Yeah.
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You know, that it wasn't enough just to be sincere about what you believe.
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You have to believe the right things.
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And I and I still believe that, I still agree with that.
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But with a love of orthodoxy and a love of learning, sometimes it is actually most often in church history accompanied by a weakness in loving people and dealing with one's own heart.
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Yeah.
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You know, in in that domain.
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And what I found was my per my personal experience was that I was piling up books on the shelf.
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I'm not that fast of a reader, so my bookshelf's not that impressive.
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But for me, I was putting books on the shelf and feeling like I was still the same person.
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And I think there was there was an expectation that was implicit that became explicit, that if you read good books and learn good theology, you will become a godly person.
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And that wasn't happening.
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And I'm I'm just remember thinking, like, man, I'm still I'm still doing the same things.
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And not only that, I was constantly looking in the mirror and saying to myself, like, hey, you did that again.
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Like, maybe you're not saved.
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That was a weekly conversation internally for me.
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And I wanted to kind of get that figured out.
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Like, why does this, why am I in this circle?
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Why am I in this cycle of constantly doubting myself and not really growing despite the fact that I'm knowing more and more?
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And Eric Raymond gave me a book, The Glory of Christ, by John Owen.
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I remember he handed it to me when we were at Northwest High School.
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We were probably still South Campus at that point in time.
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And he goes, game changer.
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And I thought, okay.
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And you know, I I'm a highly recommended book from my friend and pastor.
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I'm gonna read it.
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But then I put it down for like a year or so.
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Yeah.
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And providentially, when I decided to crack the book, like I was ready for it.
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Because in this book, it really kind of like opened up the idea of devotional theology that that be that learning should be an exercise in beholding the risen Christ by faith, and then it should move the needle internally, like it should change how I act.
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So I paired that up with some other things like like John Piper's The Pleasures of God and John John Jonathan Edwards, Religious Affections, Jeremiah Burroughs' Rare Jewel of Christian Contentment, and then the bookends of Christian Living.
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Oh, who's the guy?
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I can't think of his name all of a sudden.
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Anyway, though they are like all kind of saying a lot of the same things.
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Like you need to learn to take what you you need to acquire the skill of taking what you learn and using it to warm your heart so that your obedience is joyful rather than compulsory.
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And then learning the idea of like, if if you want to overcome sin, you have to learn to love something more than your sin.
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Yeah.
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And that that something is is God.
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That and because here's John Owen in this book saying, I'm gonna show you, I'm gonna make the case that this is what you need to do, and I'm gonna show you all these things that are wonderful and true about Jesus that you can contemplate to show you how inexhaustible this well is.
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And so I kind of roll that into the class, that desire to balance, and this has always been the big passion of mine, to balance a love of orthodoxy and a love of personal discipleship and you know, loving other people.
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And I realize I have lots of growth to do.
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And I don't say that just off-handedly.
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There's still areas of my life where I say, I think I'm a selfish person in this area.
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But it has helped me feel confident that when I struggle with sin, that I that I I understand how to approach it and deal with it and overcome it so that it's not just like this legalistic, I'm just doing what I'm supposed to be doing because I have to, and hopefully at some point this will all get figured out.
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It's not like that anymore.
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And it's also taught me to stay out of the self-atonement works assurance lane.
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I remember that was another day with Eric Raymond where I'm talking, I'm like, yeah, man, I'm just like, did this again.
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Like, what are you gonna do?
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Like, man, I need to like, I need to be reading the Bible, I need to get back to praying more.
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And he's like, dude, you are a functional Roman Catholic.
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And I was like, Oh, you that is right.
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I am gonna do penance.
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I am it's penance and atonement.
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Yeah, like do better, try harder.
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That's what I'm doing.
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And so all those things kind of like congeal together into this class, and that's why I'm passionate about it because it yeah, yeah, it's very personal to me.
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Yeah, I thoroughly enjoy it.
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I haven't been to every class by any means, but the the few classes I've been to, this time is all the classes from past time, and I love that book, Glory of Christ.
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It's great.
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I think we've mentioned this podcast almost every other episode.
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Really?
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That might be a little bit hyperbolic, but it's been several times.
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It's a banger.
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It is, like the young kids say.
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Yeah.
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So again, the abridged version by RJK Law, that'd probably be the one to go with.
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Okay.
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If that's if you're newer to the Puritans.
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Abridged or modern day English.
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I think on the book from Banner of Truth, it does say abridged.
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I'm honestly off the the the off the top of my dude.
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I'm not sure if I've read the abridged.
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I definitely the one I read is definitely modern day English.
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It's about 200 pages.
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There's no these and thou's for yours.
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No.
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Okay.
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But I don't know if it's abridged.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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Great.
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Yeah.
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I can't encourage that book enough.
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Yeah, that that that is that is one of my areas of major emphasis.
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The love of doctrine and love of other.
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So not no hurt feelings if you haven't.
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Have you listened to any of the podcast interviews in the past?
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Not yet.
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I'll be listening to mine though.
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No, I won't.
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Actually, I'll probably never listen to it.
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I've never listened to myself.
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I've never listened to any audio of myself.
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I've never watched any video of myself preaching.
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I'm actually happy you haven't listened to any of the podcasts because then these rapid-fire questions are they get to be fresh.
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Oh, okay.
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And you don't have anything prepared for them.
00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:06.240
All right.
00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:08.960
Let me pull these bad lads up real quick.
00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.000
Sorry, I don't want to cut off short though.
00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:14.159
Any final thoughts on that discipleship piece?
00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:17.840
Just No, just Lord willing, I'll get to teach it again in the future.
00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:18.240
Yeah.
00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:22.320
I've definitely learned some things that I want to take and revise to it this time around.
00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:24.639
The audio is available somewhere.
00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:25.919
You can go and listen to it.
00:16:26.559 --> 00:16:27.360
It is on sermon audio.
00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:33.519
So I have listened to a couple of them while I'm working, washing windows, listening to you teach on discipleship.
00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:43.039
If you're the person who feels stuck in that rut, if any of those things sound like you, like, and I I've learned stuff, but I'm not, I don't feel like I'm changing.
00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:46.399
You know, what what do I do when I just don't want to read my Bible?
00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:46.799
Yeah.
00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:52.080
Uh you know, and how do I overcome this particular sin that I'm really struggling with?
00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:57.360
I really tried to do a lot to help you think about how it all works and fits together.
00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:58.559
And yeah.
00:16:58.799 --> 00:16:59.279
Right.
00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:00.080
All right.
00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:01.519
So here's the rapid fire questions.
00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:02.559
Rapid fire questions.
00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:05.279
Got a couple here, as well as something I want to ask off the cuff.
00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:08.799
So easy one to start off with mountains or beach?
00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:12.480
Oh man, probably mountains.
00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:12.720
Okay.
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:18.640
I do love the beach, and I grew up being able to go to the beach, but I'm usually like good with the beach by the end of the day.
00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:18.960
Yeah.
00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:22.400
Mountains, you can go up there and just and and just stay there, stay up there for days.
00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:22.799
Yeah.
00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:23.200
Yeah.
00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:23.599
All right.
00:17:23.680 --> 00:17:24.400
Off the cuff.
00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:26.160
You mentioned you want to be an actor.
00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:28.960
Sorry, Hollywood star when you're growing up.
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:29.680
Movie star, yeah.
00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:30.720
Yeah, movie star.
00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:39.519
If you could be in one movie, like you get to take out whatever the main lead actor is, and it's you, what would be the movie that you'd want to star in?
00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:43.039
Star Wars, Luke Skywalker, because I want to fly an X-Wing.
00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:44.000
Duh.
00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:46.400
That'd be a really good one.
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:47.279
That was easy.
00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:47.759
Oh, yeah.
00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:49.440
I still want to fly an X Wing.
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:50.559
It's true.
00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:51.519
All right.
00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:52.480
What do we got here?
00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:54.559
Any run-ins with the law?
00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:56.240
Oh my goodness.
00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:58.000
Like, have I ever been arrested?
00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:00.160
I'm just saying, any run-ins with the law?
00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:01.519
Up for interpretation.
00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:04.480
No, I so since I've asked the question.
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:08.079
No, I have never been arrested that I can remember.
00:18:08.319 --> 00:18:11.119
I've been pulled over a few times for speeding.
00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:14.559
Was that when you were driving as a delivery guy for Billy's Chop 6?
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:17.119
I did get, I got I got pulled over once.
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:20.640
I only got pulled over once driving for Billy's.
00:18:20.880 --> 00:18:27.440
And it was because I I I I pushed a stale yellow light and ran a red making a left turn.
00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:28.720
Guy pulls me over.
00:18:28.880 --> 00:18:30.000
He's like, How old are you?
00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:31.200
Like, 20.
00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:32.400
He's like, You go to school?
00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:34.319
Yeah, Cal State, Bakersfield.
00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:37.119
Yeah, you when you graduate and it's like, like in a in about a month.
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:38.559
He's like, Happy graduation.
00:18:38.720 --> 00:18:39.519
Slow down.
00:18:40.799 --> 00:18:41.440
You bet.
00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:44.000
Yeah.
00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:45.119
Oh man.
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:46.720
Okay, here we go.
00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:47.680
I think this one.
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:49.279
I think I like this one.
00:18:49.599 --> 00:18:51.920
What is your dream concert lineup?
00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:54.640
Two openers, one headliner.
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:56.880
Two openers, one headliner.
00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:01.440
Oh, you want me to give you three three three groups I would like to see?
00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:01.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:03.920
Like it's I'm gonna date myself.
00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:05.279
It's gonna be very square.
00:19:05.519 --> 00:19:08.640
The headliner that I would want to see would be Peter Gabriel.
00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:09.680
Never heard of him.
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:10.799
Yeah, deep cut.
00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:12.400
He was very famous in the 80s.
00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:14.640
He had his big record then, Sledgehammer.
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:15.279
Nope.
00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:15.759
Nope.
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:18.240
Oh man, you're not that much younger than me.
00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:21.680
That was his big pop pop hit, but I how old do you think I am?
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:22.480
I don't know.
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:24.160
You're 30 something.
00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:24.799
Are you 30?
00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:26.000
I'm a zoomer.
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:27.519
I'm a geriatric zoomer.
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:28.000
All right, anyway.
00:19:28.319 --> 00:19:29.200
Born in 98.
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:31.279
Oh, you're under 30.
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:31.599
Sorry.
00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:32.880
I just told you that sold his job.
00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:33.920
The balding head helps.
00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:35.200
Peter Gabriel.
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:41.359
And because I I have listened to him for a really long time, and I've never seen him play live.
00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:46.160
And he in his heyday was known for like really creative live shows.
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:47.759
And I've missed him.
00:19:47.839 --> 00:19:49.039
He's he's too old now.
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:49.519
Yeah.
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.000
It won't happen, but I would really love to see him.
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:57.839
The other guy I would like to see, another person I would like to see, is Mark Knopfler, who is the lead guitarist for Dire Straits.
00:19:58.480 --> 00:19:58.960
Oh man.
00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:01.359
That clarification does not help me at all.
00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:03.519
He's just really he's a really good guitar player.
00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:03.839
Okay.
00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:07.359
And the style is not really the style of music that I would normally like.
00:20:07.599 --> 00:20:07.759
Yeah.
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:10.079
What kind of what kind of genre of music is this?
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:16.319
Is this he he now to he today is very, very country in a way that I don't necessarily care care for.
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:16.640
Okay.
00:20:16.799 --> 00:20:19.519
But then it was just like 80s rock band.
00:20:19.759 --> 00:20:19.920
Okay.
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:21.119
I was raised on grunge rock.
00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:23.039
Maybe a little bit like Bruce Springsteen.
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:23.440
Okay.
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:24.160
A little bit.
00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:26.720
Bruce Springsteen fans probably recoil from that.
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:28.720
But I'm going to give you some assigned reading.
00:20:28.799 --> 00:20:28.880
Okay.
00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:31.200
Because that's something that I could really assign listening.
00:20:31.519 --> 00:20:31.920
Listening.
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:32.240
Yeah.
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:35.680
So grew up on like Pear Jam, Smashing Pumpkins, Green Day.
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:37.599
That's what my dad would play in the car.
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:40.400
And maybe the third one would be the Ramones.
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:42.319
Hey, I know that one.
00:20:42.799 --> 00:20:45.839
If I'm just going to be on the 2024 hours to go.
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:47.279
That's the one.
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:49.359
So many people just turned off this episode.
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:51.200
I saw them twice when I was younger.
00:20:51.359 --> 00:20:53.039
Their shows were insane.
00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:57.920
I think I came really close to being very seriously injured at one of them.
00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:58.319
I'm serious.
00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:04.000
Somebody's going to step on my neck, step on my my jaw and break my neck.
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:06.640
I was literally feet in the air, head on the ground.
00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:07.599
Oh man.
00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:08.240
Yeah.
00:21:08.559 --> 00:21:12.799
But it was a really energetic show, and there, yeah.
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:13.519
Great.
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:14.240
It was a lot of fun.
00:21:14.319 --> 00:21:16.400
So it's just maybe like a little bit of everything there.
00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:16.640
Yeah.
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:22.960
But I do, I really like music, and like our house is one like where music is on a lot.
00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:23.519
Yeah.
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:24.960
So great.
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:25.519
Yep.
00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:27.920
I wouldn't dare ask you for your favorite movie of all time.
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:30.079
So I'll ask you, what's your Mount Rushmore?
00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:32.799
Kind of like that tier one, four movies.
00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:33.920
Yeah.
00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:38.960
I've talked about this, I have talked about this subject so many times.
00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:41.839
The first one that comes to mind would be Interstellar.
00:21:42.240 --> 00:21:43.680
I really like Chris Nolan.
00:21:43.759 --> 00:21:45.279
That's my favorite of his movies.
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:46.720
I don't say it's the best.
00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:47.039
Yeah.
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:48.880
But that that's one I really like a lot.
00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:54.799
And I love it because I do think it's a thoughtful comment on what is the nature of man.
00:21:55.359 --> 00:21:58.400
I never caught that until you told me about that a couple years back.
00:21:58.559 --> 00:21:59.039
There's Dr.
00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:01.119
Man, and he Embodies, personifies.
00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:02.559
And they're talking about love.
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:02.799
Yeah.
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:05.359
You know, where altruism, where does it come from?
00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:08.640
You know, what what makes man more than just an animal?
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:08.960
Yeah.
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:16.160
Maybe another one I would have to, I would have to say, you know, like the Lord of the Rings trilogy.
00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:20.319
If I can if I have to pick one, then I'll pick Return of the King because I love Tolkien.
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:26.000
And the movies were really good at adaptations along the same vein, Empire Strikes Back.
00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:27.519
I was a Star Wars kid.
00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:29.839
That's the best Star Wars movie, hands down.
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:31.440
I will fight you.
00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:34.319
How many times did you dress up as Chewbacca growing up for Halloween?
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:35.519
Never, but I did grow up.
00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:40.400
I did dress up as Obi-Wan Kenobi when I was in the first grade in Sitka.
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:43.039
And I remember it because we didn't have any money.
00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:44.480
And we got this.
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:54.480
What my parents got me was like this inflatable lightsaber that you like literally fit over a over a flashlight and then like a homemade robe.
00:22:54.880 --> 00:22:56.640
Except in Alaska, it's cold.
00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:59.759
You know what happens when you take inflated things outside in the cold?
00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:01.200
They deflate.
00:23:01.519 --> 00:23:03.839
It was like the saddest lightsaber ever.
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:07.359
But yeah, Empire Strikes Back, Star Wars Kid.
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:08.960
Besides that, I don't know.
00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:12.000
Maybe like a big dumb one is Pacific Rim.
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:16.880
Giant robots punching giant monsters in pace.
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:17.920
Yeah, it's a change of pace.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:21.359
Yeah, that is just like a guilty pleasure that I can't get past.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:24.160
And maybe another one for variety is I love La La Land.
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:24.640
Ah, yeah.
00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:31.759
What's the zeitgeist?
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:33.599
You know, what are the what's the philosophy?
00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:37.440
And and honestly, a couple of German there from the Zietgeist.
00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:40.559
I'm trying to, I heard somebody else say it the other day, so now it's in my head.
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:49.680
But that's a movie where I disagree with the thesis of the movie, and I still liked it because I enjoyed having the conversation.
00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:50.079
Yeah.
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:53.759
And it's got good songs, and it's set in LA, which I love movies set in LA.
00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:53.920
Yeah.
00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:56.319
And I love movies about movie making.
00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:56.480
Yeah.
00:23:56.640 --> 00:23:57.680
So it's got everything in it.
00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:00.559
I've heard you say you you think that you look like Ryan Gosling.
00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:06.400
I do not think I look like Ryan Gosling, but I may have that boyish uh double make hair charm about me.
00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:07.200
Oh man.
00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:08.640
Does he have a receding hairline?
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:09.920
I have a receding hairline.
00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:10.960
I doubt.
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:11.599
I do.
00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:16.079
I would say Ryan Gosling is probably the one guy for me right now where I'm like, what's he in?
00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:17.359
I'll probably try it out.
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:17.759
Yeah.
00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:22.480
I haven't seen all of his movies, but he's going to be in a Star Wars movie coming out next year.
00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:24.400
And I actually think there's a new one coming out?
00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:24.799
Yes.
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:26.720
I think it might actually be Episode 10.
00:24:26.799 --> 00:24:27.200
What is that?
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:29.039
No, it's it's a it's a one-off.
00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:29.519
Okay.
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:36.400
It's a one-off, and he's he's on, he's hot right now, and I think it might actually be physically and literally, right?
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:37.680
I'm just gonna call it in advance.
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:40.640
I think it's gonna be up there with like Rogue One for Okay.
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.519
Is this expanded universe, a made-up character?
00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:47.440
It's gonna be canonical, but yeah, it's an it's a new character.
00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:48.960
It's a new character.
00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:56.480
I I think it's kind of a uh a roguish rebel who probably goes right at some point.
00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:01.279
Great, but I have a feeling it's not gonna have any lightsabers, and that's probably a good thing.
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:01.680
Okay.
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:02.880
Serious question though.
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:03.200
Yeah.
00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:05.680
Would you rather fight a horse-sized duck?
00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:06.960
Man, I couldn't keep it straight.
00:25:07.039 --> 00:25:08.319
I'm ready smiling.
00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:08.880
Sorry.
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:14.880
Would you rather fight a horse-sized duck or 100 duck-sized horses?
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:17.119
Duck 100 duck-sized horses.
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:21.359
I would totally go duck-sized horses because you could you could just kick them all over.
00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:22.480
They wouldn't be able to get up.
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:22.799
Yeah.
00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:23.200
Yeah.
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:27.279
I think I could probably just like get get the crowd under control pretty quickly.
00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:27.680
Yeah.
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:29.680
And I don't think they could really do anything to me.
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:30.160
Yeah.
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:35.279
So yeah, I'm definitely taking taking a hundred duck-sized horses.
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:35.680
Great.
00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:37.119
I'm actually looking forward to this one.
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:39.920
What is your most recent I'm getting old moment?
00:25:41.440 --> 00:25:44.799
Saying Peter Gabriel to you and having you give me a black look.
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:48.960
And then saying Mark Knopfler to you and getting the same look.
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:50.400
Thousand yard stare.
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:52.799
Dire straits.
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:53.200
Anybody?
00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:54.240
A little help.
00:25:54.480 --> 00:25:54.799
Yeah.
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:55.440
Sorry.
00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:56.640
That was definitely it.
00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:02.480
I have it at work all the time because I interact with the surgical technicians, also sometimes called scrub techs.
00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:06.319
You know, they scrub and help the doctor.
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:09.279
They give my stuff to the doctor, so to speak.
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:09.519
Yeah.
00:26:09.759 --> 00:26:12.880
And they're always, they're almost always like 20 somethings.
00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:13.359
Yeah.
00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:17.359
And there's always jokes like, I got no idea what you're talking about, unk.
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:18.720
I gotta ask.
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:20.319
I assume so.
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:28.079
Talking to Joe Comer, when he's in pursuit as a sheriff's deputy, go to hundred, the cops actually have like a pursuit playlist.
00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:30.960
And for him, like I just played on the song.
00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:32.319
Hard guitar riff.
00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:37.920
Anyways, I was gonna ask, in the OR, are there like doctors' playlists or is that not protocol?
00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:38.559
Sort of.
00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:39.039
Okay.
00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:40.880
They they listen to Pandora.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:44.319
They Pandora or Spotify, depending on who has a password.
00:26:44.880 --> 00:26:46.480
And most of them keep it pretty generic.
00:26:46.559 --> 00:26:47.599
It's like today's hits.
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:51.519
They they just they want some filler with a few things that they kind of like.
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:58.799
And if anybody tries to put on something, the more somebody is really into something, the less it needs it just it's everything has to be brought up here.
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:00.319
It was Freebird.
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:03.200
That's his that's his song that he does when he's in pursuit.
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:04.480
Oh, that is too funny.
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:05.680
Yeah, I could see that.
00:27:05.839 --> 00:27:06.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:07.680
I gotta, yeah.
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:14.160
I gotta I do I do have a playlist for occasions like that, but I'm I'm never going 100 miles an hour, so many chances to use it.
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:17.920
What was your favorite family tradition?
00:27:18.400 --> 00:27:21.039
Oh man, favorite family tradition.
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:24.799
I do we've gone to Vallas a lot for a long time.
00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:33.359
We've had passes for a while, and we've lived right around the corner from Vallas Pumpkin Patch for like 10 years, so that makes it really easy to just like get a pass and bounce over for a couple years.
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:35.599
So it's always great when we start going there again.
00:27:36.400 --> 00:27:48.000
But then, like other than that, traditions would have would have to be like just any number of the Christmas traditions when we were when the kids were young, taking a look at Christmas lights, the polar our our little version of the Polar Express.
00:27:48.720 --> 00:28:04.559
Thanks, like we call it uh turkey melt sandwiches in between Thanksgiving and Christmas and leaving after Christmas sourdough, Swiss cheese, turkey, cranberry spread, and ruffles, plain potato chips, and Coca-Cola.
00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:06.400
Okay, they're so good.
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:14.960
And like when they come out, it's like I eat, I will probably eat like a dozen during that time to the point where I'm almost tired of it.
00:28:15.039 --> 00:28:17.839
But then it's in between that, it's like, no, do not make it for me.
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:21.119
Like I am looking forward to that Black Friday.
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:22.799
It's like we're here again.
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:24.000
I feel so good.
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:25.599
Yeah, I love eating those.
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:27.759
You mentioned Polar Explorer Express.
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:28.640
What do you do there?
00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:29.519
Oh, watch the movie.
00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:31.440
Like in the movie, the kids go to the North Pole.
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:40.079
And so what we in in the story, the kid gets woken from his from slumber through when this imaginary train pulls up and takes into the North Pole.
00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:44.400
Please tell me, please tell me that you wake up Caleb at four in the morning wearing a conductor's outfit.
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:45.039
No, no.
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:45.440
Okay.
00:28:45.599 --> 00:28:46.880
But we did have a train whistle.
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:49.119
It was a little Thomas the train whistle, it was really weak.
00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:50.400
The like wooden flute thing up there.
00:28:50.559 --> 00:29:01.680
But we would we would put the kids to bed, and then very shortly after, we would wake them up, and so they, like the kids in the movie, would get in the back of the minivan with the pajamas on, and we would stop and get hot chocolate or drinks.
00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:03.599
Okay, that's fun and look at lights.
00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:04.319
Very nice.
00:29:04.400 --> 00:29:05.279
Yeah, very nice.
00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:13.039
And Amy also made golden tickets that she punched out like in the movie and laminated them and put put uh glitter on them the whole night.
00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:13.599
Sweet.
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:15.359
Yeah, very nice.
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:18.640
If you were a piece of furniture, what would you be?
00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:21.119
If I was a piece of furniture.
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:29.839
I would be a I would be a like a barrel, like a like a 50s style barrel-backed lounge chair.
00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:32.960
That is my favorite kind of chair to sit in.
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:36.880
Or not even necessarily even the barrel back, but just even like the like the square back.
00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:38.400
I'm I'm Googling this right now.
00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:42.240
1950s barrel barrel backed lounge.
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:43.200
Lounge chair.
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:43.599
Yeah.
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:44.000
Okay.
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:50.000
Just you know, kind of like it's shaped like a C, and you can sit back on it, and your arms kind of set up high.
00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:50.480
Yeah.
00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:58.799
It's you know, for just you know, cross your legs, sit, have a you know, intellectual conversation, use all your use all your big words.
00:29:58.960 --> 00:29:59.200
Yeah.
00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:00.079
It is interesting.
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:06.480
I think this is you're the fourth or fifth person of Assist 2, and all but one have said some form of a chair.
00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:06.880
Yeah.
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.599
Luke was a barber chair, Zach was a lounge chair as well.
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:14.640
Uh I think only Schleifer.
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:16.079
He was a bookcase.
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:17.519
I think Steve was also a chair.
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:19.039
That totally traps.
00:30:20.960 --> 00:30:21.839
Yeah, I know.
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:24.720
I couldn't can I couldn't think of anything more creative than that.
00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:27.200
Maybe could I be like a Lego display case?
00:30:27.440 --> 00:30:27.680
Maybe.
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:28.559
Is that really better?
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:29.519
Is that improvement?
00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:30.880
I think so.
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:34.160
All right, two more.
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:34.640
Okay.
00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:37.680
What hymn do you want sung at your funeral?
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:41.200
Oh man, it is well with my soul.
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:43.119
That's everybody likes that one.
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:43.359
Yeah.
00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:45.039
Can I be more creative than that?
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:46.880
I can't think of anything at the top of my head.
00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:52.400
I don't want to like ramble while I try to think of something, but I do, I do really, really love that.
00:30:52.799 --> 00:30:53.279
Very good.
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:59.119
All right, and to close this out, what are you most encouraged by at Ameus right now?
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:08.240
I am encouraged by what I see as I would call this like the ultimate thing you would ever look for.
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:20.960
Which is that which is that kids the children of the church being in peaceful relationships with their parents and continuing in the faith.
00:31:21.839 --> 00:31:25.519
The kids not falling off the cliff and disappearing after high school.
00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:26.000
Yeah.
00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:30.079
Sometimes they find a different church that they want to go to.
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:32.240
And I and I get that.
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:54.720
But just seeing the continuity, like the generational continuity, and that because and that itself is a sign that parents are parenting well and raising their children in the faith and teaching them about the faith in a way that is that is beautiful to the kids and attractive to them, which they then adopt and own for themselves.
00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:08.240
As far as what you're doing as a church.
00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:08.720
Yeah.
00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:09.440
Yeah.
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:10.000
Yeah.
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:20.640
There's so many other situations where you just like you're looking around at the kids of the youth group and thinking like you probably never darken the door of a church again once you don't have to go anymore.
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:21.680
And it's so sad.
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:25.519
So many kids just fall off at that point.
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:30.880
But they're just it seems to be really healthy relationships between parents and kids at our church.
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:31.759
Thankful for that.
00:32:32.000 --> 00:32:32.319
Yeah.
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:33.440
Well, I want to honor you.
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:35.519
I I love that you've been an elder at our church.
00:32:35.599 --> 00:32:38.799
I've benefited a lot from you, both from your teaching, as well as the model of your life.
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:40.319
I know many others have as well.
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:42.480
So thanks for being one of our pastors.
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:44.079
It's my pleasure.
00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:49.039
It is the one thing that in life that I'm confident that I'm supposed to be doing.
00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:49.519
Yeah.
00:32:49.759 --> 00:32:50.079
Yeah.
00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:54.559
I mean, other than staying married and raising my children.
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:55.359
Yeah.
00:32:56.319 --> 00:32:56.640
Very nice.
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.680
It's it's it's hard, but I think that I'm supposed to be doing it.
00:32:59.759 --> 00:33:01.759
And so that makes it makes it easier.
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:08.240
And honestly, this is a relatively really easy church to be a pastor.
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:10.319
Our members are good members.
00:33:11.279 --> 00:33:23.279
Even when there's trouble, it the there is there's openness and humility to correction and redirection, like just a good just a good relationship overall.
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:24.000
Yeah.
00:33:24.240 --> 00:33:24.559
Awesome.
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:24.880
Yeah.
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:25.920
Thanks for your time, brother.
00:33:26.079 --> 00:33:26.559
You bet.
00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:27.440
Thank you.