Interview with Dr. William Schleifer: On Life, Ministry, and Medicine

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Welcome to Walking and Talking.
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I'm Josh and I'm William.
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When I was growing up, one of the commercials that I oftentimes saw was the Dostakis Man commercials.
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He was, quote, the most interesting man in the world.
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And during my seven years at Emmaus, I do think if there was a member, a person in our church who deserved the honor and the title of the most interesting man in the church, I do believe it's William Schleifer, Doctor, Pastor William Schleifer here with me.
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So today we're going to look at Pastor Schleifer's life, get to know him a little bit more, and see some of the things that he has unique experiences and talents within.
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As we get started, Pastor, where did you grow up?
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What was your early life like, family?
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Yeah, so I was actually born not too far away in Ames, Iowa.
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Both my parents went to Iowa State University.
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And very quickly after graduation, dad got a job in Georgia.
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So I grew up in what was then billed as the poultry capital of the world, Gainesville, Georgia.
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My dad is a poultry veterinarian, and so he specializes in population health with chickens, turkeys.
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Well, and so he was employed there for quite some time, and that's where I grew up.
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And then well, so going on from there when I was going into seventh grade, kind of a lifelong dream of my father's was to buy a chicken farm and teach us, you know, lifelong lessons of caring for animals and doing hard work and responding to emergencies.
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And I don't think he was anticipating that many emergencies as we had to respond to, but we had quite an eventful growing up years on the poultry farm.
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We had 45,000 broiler, which are the meat chickens, and then 30 head of cattle that and you know some other animals, but those were the main animals that we had.
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Well, it's 45,000 chickens.
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Is that standard for commercial operations or is that low, high?
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That's considered a small farm.
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Wow.
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And a lot of the farms around us had kind of the average farm was a hundred thousand plus.
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Well, but for for broiler chickens, now for layer egg operations, they're generally a little bit smaller, but yeah.
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So we've got the time on the farm up through high school.
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Now, of course, well, I guess not of course, but I was home educated.
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I went to Christian school in kindergarten, and that was really when the homeschool movement was starting up, and mom was first finding out about that.
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And so very early on in the homeschool movement, my mom pulled me out of school and she homeschooled my brother and I through the end of high school.
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And then I went to college at Bob Jones University in Greenville, South Carolina.
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That's a Christian college.
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Yeah.
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That is a liberal arts college.
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I majored in biology and piano performance.
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So it took five years to get two degrees.
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Yeah.
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And then from then I did medical school at medical college of Georgia, which is in Augusta, Georgia, home of the masters.
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And then my residency was at University of Alabama in Birmingham.
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That was internal medicine residency, cardiology fellowship in Phoenix, Arizona, at Mayo Clinic there.
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And then after that, electrophysiology fellowship at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota.
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And so that's kind of where we've been before arriving here.
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Yeah.
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I met Mary my last year of uh college at Bob Jones.
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We'll probably get into that a little bit later.
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We were married during my fourth year of medical school.
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And then Miranda was born when we were in Phoenix, Arizona.
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Rosemary was born when we were in Rochester, Minnesota.
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Yeah.
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And right before Rosemary was born.
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And I'm talking about either like a week before Mary is due or even the week that Mary's due.
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I forget exactly the time sequence, but my program director at Mayo Clinic said, William, you need to apply for a job.
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And I'm like, Yeah, I know I need to apply for a job.
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Well, he's like, you need to apply for a job like now.
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You need to start looking now.
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And I'm like.
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Was he forewarning you of something he knew of that you didn't know of?
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No, he's just probably knew that I would just from my personality probably procrastinate on this kind of thing.
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I see.
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Because I was already, when he approached me with this, I was already starting to plan my procrastination strategy.
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Like I was, you know, we've got baby coming.
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And like, does it have to be right now?
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Well, anyway, so he said, yeah.
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And what you need to do is you need to send these programs a letter of interest uh to say, hey, I'm interested in a job at your place.
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And can you send me more information?
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And here's my resume and in medicine, we call it the CV for curriculum vitae.
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But uh yeah, send them your resume and all that.
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And he said, and by the way, I have this email from the uh program at the University of Nebraska Medical Center.
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Okay.
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And so he said, give them a uh, you know, look into them.
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Yeah.
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And I was like, okay, sure.
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I'll seem like you look at that.
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Oh, yeah, yeah.
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No, he was really looking out for me.
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And I was, you know, a little overwhelmed at the time.
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And I mean, Mary and I had not really talked a lot about where we wanted to end up ultimately.
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So growing up in the southeast, obviously, and Mary grew up in the southeast.
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Her folks live in Greenville, South Carolina.
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So until we moved away from the Southeast, we were kind of always envisioning ourselves in the Southeast.
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Yeah.
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And so Nebraska never really was on our radar.
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It's on very few people's radars, I believe.
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I I think so.
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But anyway.
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So here's here's how it happened was that it was kind of like, okay, well, I gotta send out my applications to lots of places.
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Yeah.
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And as far as this job that was open in Nebraska, like they were limited to US citizens because they didn't have room for someone on a visa.
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And in my fellowship class at Mayo, I was actually the only one in my class who was U.S.
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citizen.
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Really?
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And so it was like, okay, he got this email from the uh chief at Was that accidental or was Mayo intentionally trying to find foreign students?
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Well, so I don't know.
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Well, I never was on their admissions committee or or involved in any of the interviews.
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So I don't know if there was an intentional thing there.
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But Mayo is not only is it internationally renowned, yeah, but it is has an international presence and especially Mayo Clinic in Rochester.
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So they really do attract the best of the best from all over the world.
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Yeah.
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And so you're the best of the best in America.
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Well according to that.
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I mean, it was a real honor to be.
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So it was, you know, I was really the only one that could actually apply for this position in my class.
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And so I was like, well, you know, I've got to do a courtesy interview and that sort of thing.
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Might as well get my feet wet with this position in Nebraska.
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And then I had the initial phone interview with the guy who was at that point in time head of the electrophysiology section, which is the subspecialty that I'm in, electrical part of cardiology.
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Yeah.
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And I was just chatting with him with this phone interview.
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I was like, man, this is my kind of guy.
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Like, I would love to work with this guy.
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What drew you to him?
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So we have a very similar sense of humor.
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We have a kind of light-hearted approach, which I mean it kind of surprises the the cardiology trainees at UNMC when they work with me that I can be a little bit of a jokester.
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And I do want to say the the few the I won't say few, the amount of times there's been I mean, belly laughing in elders' meetings.
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I think I'm usually the culprit.
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You're 10 for 10 out of being the culprit.
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I mean it's just a zinger coming out from left field.
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That's just wonderful.
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Multiple tears will be streaming down faces.
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I mean, you just don't expect it.
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Boy.
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Yeah.
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So and and this guy and I just just hit it off in that phone interview.
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Yeah.
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And so I'm like, well, yeah, of course I want to come down there and and interview.
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But still, even though I hit it off with this guy, like you don't make a lifetime decision based on one conversation with one guy, or at least I hope you don't.
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But it seems you did.
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No.
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I went down to Omaha for an interview, and this is now after Rosemary's born.
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But again, you know, I talked with Mary, and you know, we we were, you know, still trying to figure out where we wanted to end up.
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And we knew we didn't want to end up anywhere that was colder than Rochester, Minnesota, anywhere that was hotter than Phoenix, Arizona.
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But that's pretty much the whole country.
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So anyway, we lived in the hottest place and the coldest place.
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Yeah.
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Doesn't exclude many options.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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So we knew we didn't want to go to North Dakota, but that's basically the only place.
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So it seems like you had some experience in the Bible Belt, some experience in a very secular New England, also in the arid West.
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Yeah.
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And then you got to the Midwest.
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Right.
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Yes.
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And I think we really liked being in the Midwest from a culture perspective.
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We have really good friends still in the Southeast and in and in Phoenix.
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And when we were in Phoenix, we were heavily involved with a church plant there.
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And it was really hard leaving Phoenix.
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Yeah.
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That church plant actually is what introduced me to Nine Marks.
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Great.
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And as the pastors were working on planting that church, they were very intentional at explaining what they were doing.
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So a lot of my familiarity with Nine Marks, ecclesiology, the thought process that goes into our constitution and that sort of thing is stuff that I learned there at that church in Phoenix, Arizona.
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Yeah.
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What's the name of that church?
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Cross Point Baptist Church.
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Great.
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And it's in North Phoenix.
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Awesome.
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And so, yeah.
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So it was really tough moving away from there.
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But the thing with medicine residency and fellowship is you don't have a lot of choice.
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You make what you call a rank order list where number one, number two, number three.
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Yeah.
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And I didn't always get my number one pick.
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And so it's based on what your picks are and what the programs pick you.
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They rank all the candidates that interview there.
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And then some computer somewhere matches it all up.
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Yeah.
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But we know that God's in control.
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Yeah.
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And every step of the way, it was the right place for me to go.
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Yeah.
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So that's how we got from Georgia to Omaha.
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Yeah.
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So what I heard is your dad was a poultry veterinarian, mom was a housewife, homeschooler, full-time.
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Were you grow were you raised in a Christian family?
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When did you come to know the Lord?
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How'd your conversion come about?
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Yeah.
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So both my parents came to know the Lord in adulthood.
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I and I think mom was in her teens when she came to know the Lord.
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Yeah.
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And so they raised me in a Christian home.
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I actually came to know the Lord when dad explained the gospel to me when I was almost five.
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Wow.
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And uh they do family worship?
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Yeah.
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Great.
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Yep.
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So praise the Lord.
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And and that's something that I and they were very intentional about making sure that my brother and I were in good, strong Bible preaching churches.
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Yeah.
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So were they cutting their teeth on like Martin Lloyd Jones?
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Who were the people that were forming your parents?
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Well they're not.
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Yeah, so I mean, it was a lot of the Bob Jones so with so mom went to Bob Jones University.
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And so he got a lot of materials and books about the Bible from Bob Jones.
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And then other and so that that's really there was a real heavy Bob Jones influence.
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And that's one of the things that actually drew my parents to move south was to be closer to Bob Jones University.
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Yeah.
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They wanted me to go there, and both me and my brother went there for college.
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So being from the Midwest, I'm not personally as familiar with Bob Jones.
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I know it's probably a conservative, like Bible heavy Bible institute.
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Yeah.
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So or some distinctives there.
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So some distinctives about Bob Jones University.
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It was founded in 1927 by a guy named Bob Jones.
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Yeah.
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Not to be confused with Bobby Jones the golfer.
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Now going to Augusta, Georgia, where there is the Bobby Jones Expressway named after Bobby Jones the golfer.
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Yeah.
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I occasionally rub shoulders with people who know more about Bobby Jones than Bob Jones.
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So was Bob Jones posthumously named Bob Jones University, or did he come in and say, Hey, my name's Bob Jones and I'm starting Bob Jones University?
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The story is that so Bob Jones was an evangelist.
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He traveled the country, and he was really burdened about the fact that young people were losing their faith in secular colleges.
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And this was before there were a lot of Christian colleges.
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Like back then, there were some Christian colleges, a lot of them had headed the liberal direction.
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Yeah.
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And so he was not really an academic himself, but he was like, hey, we need to do something here.
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Yeah, I see a problem.
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I want to help find a solution.
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And so he rallied a bunch of people around him to start a college.
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It started in Florida.
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Great.
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And then the board decided that because of Bob Jones' visibility as an evangelist of the time, that they wanted to name the college Bob Jones University.
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The story is that Bob Jones himself didn't want it named after him, but he conceded to the board.
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I see.
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And so it moved from Florida to Tennessee and then after World War II came to Greenville, South Carolina, where it is now.
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Yeah.
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And so one of the reasons I went to Bob Jones University is that strong liberal arts.
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And so, like, I doubt there's really very many Christian colleges where I could have gotten as strong of a science education and then got a really solid piano education as well.
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Yeah.
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So you mentioned it was there that you met Mary.
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How did that interaction come about?
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Yeah, so a very complex story that shows that God is in control of everything.
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Yeah.
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So in college, there are for one thing, if I had just been a biology major, I would have graduated the year before I met Mary and gone on to medical school.
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But I wanted to get that last degree or that second degree in piano.
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Yeah.
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Because, you know, now I have something to show for all my piano work.
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Like I've got an actual degree in piano.
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Yeah.
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And so I stayed on an extra year.
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For that piano degree, I had to get a foreign language.
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And so the foreign language that I chose was New Testament Greek.
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Yeah.
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And then this is Georgia, right?
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No, this is the Bob Jones.
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Sorry.
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This is a Bob Jones.
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So Bob Jones being a Christian university is a great place to learn New Testament Greek.
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Yeah.
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I've got a solid Greek faculty.
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And so So I started New Testament Greek and so when when I was in high school, I had worked on learning Latin.
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:24.720
And I say this just as background because I don't remember hardly any of the Latin that I learned.
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:27.279
Don't ask me questions about Latin.
00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:32.640
But but because I'd had that Latin, it made learning Greek a lot easier.
00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:33.119
Good.
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:39.599
And so in New Testament Greek, I'm like, okay, I'm actually learning this pretty well.
00:22:40.480 --> 00:22:49.759
I made a joke with one of my friends about, hey, if I study this over Christmas break, do you think I could test out a second semester?
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:55.519
And he said, Don't do it, but I'll loan you a book.
00:22:55.839 --> 00:23:06.160
And so I took that book home, read it over Christmas break, came back, tested out a second semester.
00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:07.039
Wow.
00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:10.160
I'm about to start Greek, so do you mind passing me that book?
00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:10.960
Yeah.
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:13.839
No, like it's it's a good, good book.
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:18.720
So it it's Mounts' basics of New Testament Greek.
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:30.799
And and then doing third semester Greek in the off semester actually worked better with my schedule.
00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:39.759
And so it like freaked everyone out, but like it was it was neat to actually take that.
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:55.519
And then I was like, well, hey, if I study Greek again over the summer, then I could place out of fourth semester Greek, and then I could get into book classes.
00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:04.799
So the way Greek is taught in college is you have four semesters of Greek, and then you get into the book classes.
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:10.880
And the place where you really learn the Bible is in those book classes.
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:17.200
Like, you know, and that's really why I was taking Greek, was to get into the Bible.
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:22.000
I it wasn't like I'm not conjugating verbs for the rest of my life.
00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:45.599
But anyway, so I say that to say if I had not done that, and if like God hadn't somehow led me to do this crazy studying extra in something that wasn't even related to my major, I would have never met Mary.
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:46.000
Yeah.
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:50.720
Because we met in the book class, Prison Epistles.
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:51.440
Yeah.
00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:54.000
And she came in the last minute.
00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:55.359
I was already sitting down.
00:24:55.519 --> 00:24:58.799
I there it was a small classroom.
00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:01.039
There were three rows.
00:25:01.359 --> 00:25:01.599
Yeah.
00:25:01.839 --> 00:25:04.480
And so no one sat in the front row.
00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:06.960
The back row was full.
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:12.640
And so the only available seat when she came in was next to me.
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:15.359
And then kind of the rest is history.
00:25:15.440 --> 00:25:21.920
We sat talking to each other, found out that we had a lot of common interests.
00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:22.480
Yeah.
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:25.119
And how many broilers did she have on the farm?
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:29.839
Well, no, she so that was not a common interest, the the farm stuff.
00:25:30.160 --> 00:26:08.720
But on the other hand, like, you know, we both love music, we both love the Bible, and the we just started talking with each other, and by the middle of that semester, this is my last semester of college, I'm like, okay, I kind of gotta make a decision if we're gonna keep up with this long term, or if we're just gonna say, hey, it was nice to meet you, and I'm gonna go off to medical school.
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:09.119
Yeah.
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:13.920
And yeah, no, I it was pretty clear that we wanted to pursue this now.
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:18.079
You told her that you wanted to conjugate Greek verbs together for the rest of your lives.
00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:23.119
Not really.
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:36.400
But no, we do we do review passages together, and uh we I like with it being somewhere in the Psalms, I don't know Hebrew.
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:40.559
And because Mary knows five languages.
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:43.759
Well, Mary knows Greek and Hebrew, yeah.
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:49.680
And then the there are parts of the Old Testament that are written in Aramaic.
00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:54.400
And so she's able to read that as well.
00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:56.720
Oh, there are two dead languages.
00:26:57.599 --> 00:26:58.240
That that is true.
00:26:58.480 --> 00:26:58.960
That's true.
00:26:59.599 --> 00:27:12.240
But English is and Greek are really the only the the and she's gonna make fun of me, but I thought she knew like two dead languages, like the Philistine or something like that.
00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:14.880
I don't think there's anything written in Philistine.
00:27:15.200 --> 00:27:17.519
That's why she's gonna laugh at me when she hears this.
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:18.640
Like fool.
00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:25.119
But I thought there were two like maybe we'll get back to we don't want us both to look like fools.
00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:27.119
That's true, that's true.
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:33.359
Well, I will say, I remember when I first came, I remember seeing your daughters, particularly Miranda, because she she was older.
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:38.000
I think Rosemary was still like maybe four, wasn't this conversational with strangers like me.
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:43.920
But I remember seeing Miranda, I'm like, I think you are smarter as an eight-year-old than I was at 18.
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:52.799
But it makes sense because she's got the genetics between you and Mary as these two just incredibly gifted, intellectually savvy people.
00:27:53.599 --> 00:28:06.319
Well, uh, like I said, God has he had his hand in our lives, and any gifts that we have is entirely through God's work.
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:06.799
Yeah.
00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:11.680
And God has certainly given us two wonderful daughters.
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:12.240
Yeah.
00:28:12.559 --> 00:28:18.079
And it's really a also a gift to be here at Emmaus.
00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:27.119
And so through all the moves that we've been through, we've been at several different churches.
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:28.000
Yeah.
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:33.519
And is medicine similar to the military where you're just kind of moving every two or three years?
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:39.359
Well, not necessarily, but uh it kind of worked out that way.
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:44.559
And some folks at the some of the churches that we went to, first question was, Are you military?
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:49.519
Because we were, you know, moving in pretty much every two to three years.
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:50.000
Yeah.
00:28:50.160 --> 00:29:02.480
And and Miranda actually, she probably doesn't remember this, but about a year after we moved here, Miranda actually asked when we were moving again.
00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:07.519
And I'm like, we're settling down for a while.
00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:07.839
Yeah.
00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:09.519
Gonna plant some roots.
00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:13.200
Not gonna move every two to three years.
00:29:13.440 --> 00:29:14.079
Yeah.
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:22.319
So talking about God's work and your life, what have been some ways that marriage fatherhood has been sanctifying the joys of it, challenges.
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:35.519
Well, the joys of it is to see God working despite your lack of competence.
00:29:35.920 --> 00:30:00.400
Um see that God accepted God's mercy, and like you you understand that whether we're talking about being a pastor, a father, a doctor, you can't change people.
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:17.119
But you see God changing yourself, changing your children, and they are it's humbling and it's also joyful.
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:42.079
And you know, it's it's that's the sanctifying aspect of it is you have to submit to the Lord, and I don't like surprises.
00:30:43.519 --> 00:31:05.680
But when you've got okay, you you submit your rank order list, and then on quote match day, you find out where you and your wife are moving to for the next three years of your life, it's you you really have to trust the Lord.
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:20.559
And you know, and every single one of our moves, every single one, we moved there not knowing what church we'd be going to.
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:33.519
And so we've by the time we moved to Nebraska, my wife and I were expert church visitors, and knew the right questions to ask.
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:53.920
Yeah, so and and like you know, she and I decided that when we moved to the place where we're going to be living for a while, we're going to visit a lot of churches, we're going to ask a lot of questions, we're gonna take our time, yeah.
00:31:54.079 --> 00:32:02.960
And then we visited a Mayus, and we stopped visiting churches, we stopped taking our time.
00:32:03.279 --> 00:32:05.359
We're like, okay, we want to be members.
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:05.759
Yeah.
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:07.759
You guys came in 2017, 2018?
00:32:08.079 --> 00:32:09.759
2017, yeah.
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:15.519
Which is a uh an important year in the history of Emmaus.
00:32:15.759 --> 00:32:17.920
That was a pretty tumultuous time in the history of Emmaus.
00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:21.759
That was when the new constitution was adopted.
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:22.559
Yeah.
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:27.920
And uh was that before or after the the church split, if I could call it that.
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:43.839
Well, so that was after the big quote church split that Matt Fudge talks about, where I mean he talks about a time when roughly half the church left.
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:46.079
And so that was before us.
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:46.799
I see.
00:32:47.359 --> 00:33:20.160
But with changing to a new constitution and then with Eric Raymond's departure, there were quite a few people that left who with you know disagreement with regards to the changes in the constitution, or because with Pastor Eric leaving made it a good time to check out other other places.
00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:20.640
Yeah.
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:25.920
So you came, yeah, in a time where the dust was still settling on some of those issues.
00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:26.640
Yeah.
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:41.680
We were here long enough to get to know the Raymonds, and we've been back to or back to, we've we've been to Boston a couple times and seen them again.
00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:47.839
And so yeah, it's it's always good uh good to see them.
00:33:47.920 --> 00:33:54.960
And I highly recommend anyone who's in the Boston area to check out Pastor Eric's church.
00:33:55.039 --> 00:33:57.759
And if you're in Connecticut, check out Pastor Thomas's channel.
00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:00.480
Is it Redeemer Baptist, Redeemer Fellowship for Pastor Eric?
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:02.240
Yeah, Redeemer Fellowship.
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:02.640
Yeah.
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:04.799
Over there in Boston, Watertown, actually, I believe.
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:05.279
Yep.
00:34:05.839 --> 00:34:14.079
And then if you're in Connecticut and you're for some reason interested in listening to us talk, Richfield Baptist Church, you can visit Pastor Thomas Anderson.
00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:14.880
Yes.
00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:15.599
Great.
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:28.079
So how did you go from conjugating Greek verbs and doing electrocardiac surgeries to becoming a pastor as well?
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:33.039
And on top of all those other duties, how'd that kind of storyline come forth?
00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:33.920
Yeah.
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:37.119
Again, this is a development over time.
00:34:37.360 --> 00:34:38.000
Yeah.
00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:44.639
When I was in college, I loved studying the Bible.
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:58.320
And I like, I mean, this was really again what drove me to do a whole lot more than I really needed to in Greek, is because I wanted to study the Bible more.
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:10.719
Now, when I was in college, I had the attitude of pastor versus doctor as kind of an either-or proposition.
00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:30.880
And my framework was thinking of pastor as a single pastor, or maybe there's a pastor and a youth pastor, because that's all the churches I had been to had one pastor and a deacon board, or a pastor, a youth pastor, and a deacon board.
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:36.639
And the pastor was always, you know, a step above the youth pastor.
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:46.960
And so consequently, I was like, you know, I do not feel called.
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:55.679
And that was how people in my circles then phrased it is, are you called to full-time ministry?
00:35:56.400 --> 00:36:05.199
Which if you're called to full-time ministry, then you choose between pastor, missionary, evangelist.
00:36:06.079 --> 00:36:11.920
If you're not called to full-time ministry, then, well, you know, those options are pretty much out.
00:36:12.079 --> 00:36:12.719
Yeah.
00:36:13.039 --> 00:36:17.519
And so it was kind of viewed as an either-or proposition.
00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:22.159
And I'm like, you know, I've got a strong interest in medicine.
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:25.119
Medicine is a great way to minister to people.
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:32.320
Medicine is a great way to use my talents, and I'm going to pursue that.
00:36:32.639 --> 00:36:36.800
And so I went into medical school.
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:45.119
And when I was in medical school, I really didn't have opportunity to think about anything else.
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:51.519
My Greek got rusty, my and probably still is, but anyway.
00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:53.360
Did your piano get rusty?
00:36:53.760 --> 00:37:06.159
Piano, I was able to maintain playing piano throughout, obviously not as much as I was in college, but throughout medical school residency and fellowship.
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:10.639
And actually performed some along the way.
00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:23.599
But it really wasn't until we were in the church plant in Phoenix, Arizona, that we were in a church.
00:37:23.920 --> 00:37:26.079
Again, this was the first nine marks.
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:30.639
This was the first time I've ever heard of nine marks was in Phoenix, Arizona.
00:37:31.199 --> 00:37:35.840
And the first time I've ever heard of a plurality of elders.
00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:52.639
And the pastor there insisted on holding off on chartering the church until he had a second elder so that there could be a plurality of elders.
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:18.960
And then fast forward to here as I was thinking about the eldership, I was like, you know, I should look study this in the Bible.
00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:26.960
I don't know why it took me this long to get to the point where I studied this in the Bible.
00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:36.480
But like this is, you know, 2018, 2019, or probably 2019 when I'm actually studying this in the Bible.
00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:41.039
Because I remember you were in that Sermons of the Church class with Luke.
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:41.519
Yeah.
00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:47.519
I just remember Luke would hand out these uh two-page paper kind of assignments every month.
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:48.079
Right.
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:57.280
You know, you'd have six guys go around, they give their two pages, and then there'd be this stack that would get plopped onto the desk or the table from you.
00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:06.719
And you had quite literally conjugated the Greek verbs gotten into the original languages, and typically there are 14-15-page papers.
00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:15.199
Yeah, well, so and this was kind of my opportunity to uh and and I really honestly wasn't doing this to show off.
00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:30.800
It was me trying to learn this for myself because I even at Bob Jones, like I took biblical doctrines and no one talked about plurality of elders.
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:41.119
Yeah, I mean, there was a little introduction to Presbyterian polity, but like no discussion of you know, what does the Bible say about plurality of elders?
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:52.159
And lo and behold, every time that elder is used in the Bible with regards to a church, yeah, it's always in the plural.
00:39:52.320 --> 00:39:52.480
Yeah.
00:39:52.719 --> 00:40:04.159
So when it's used in the singular, it's referring to a specific person, like in Peter, first Peter, when Peter calls himself, I am an elder, well, obviously he uses the singular.
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:04.400
Yeah.
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:13.280
But when it's talking about the elders of the church of Antioch or the elders of the church of Philippi, it's always in the plural.
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:17.519
And I'm like, how did I never see this?
00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:17.840
Yeah.
00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:21.199
But I know Acts 14 was the text that blew kind of my mind open.
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:27.519
Paul and Bartamus are going back to the churches they had planted, and they're raising up in every one of those churches elders plural.
00:40:27.679 --> 00:40:27.920
Right.
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:32.079
In every one of those churches that they plant planted previously on their missionary journeys.
00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:33.039
Yep.
00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:38.239
And I read these verses who knows how many times.
00:40:38.400 --> 00:40:38.639
Yeah.
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:40.960
But yeah.
00:40:41.039 --> 00:40:41.280
Yeah.
00:40:41.599 --> 00:40:48.719
Wasn't until I specifically approached the scriptures with that question that I thought, wow, it it's all over the place.
00:40:48.880 --> 00:40:49.519
Yeah.
00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:50.480
Great.
00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:54.239
Well, it's been a joy to have you as a what are you going to call it?
00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:56.000
A lay pastor or non-staff pastor.
00:40:56.079 --> 00:41:01.199
You've brought many talents, experiences, and just wisdom to the team that I've seen.
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:03.039
So I think our church has been ritually blessed.
00:41:03.199 --> 00:41:13.760
I think it's just an encouragement to other men who might be a full-time school teacher or accountant or what have you outside of a full-time vocational uh career.
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:21.920
There is a role for men who aspire to the ministry and yet want to maintain a full-time vocation outside of the local church.
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:22.159
Yeah.
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:23.760
I think you're a testament to that.
00:41:24.159 --> 00:41:55.360
I and I would say that, you know, while churches who follow a different model, they're not necessarily, I wouldn't say that they're like in sin or disobedient, but I would say that they're, you know, probably missing out on that, you know, having the, you know, using the gifts that God has given the men in their congregation.
00:41:56.159 --> 00:42:03.119
And you know, frequently, I think the point of this is made in some of the nine marks material.
00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:17.599
Frequently churches that have a single pastor model have deacons that are elder qualified and deacons that are actually more functioning as elders rather than deacons.
00:42:17.840 --> 00:42:26.320
And so it's just I I think this is a better way.
00:42:26.480 --> 00:42:27.119
Yeah.
00:42:27.599 --> 00:42:37.599
I ever since I came to a Mayus and also got indoctrinated, if you will, in the nine marks, M-R-A-M-A-R-K-S, not M-A-R-X.
00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:49.360
Just to clarify, whenever I come across a story of a pastoral failure, they're just this odd common denominator.
00:42:49.679 --> 00:42:55.440
They always are at churches where they are the sole isolated pastor.
00:42:55.920 --> 00:43:00.079
That doesn't mean that if you have a plurality of elders, you're automatically bulletproof.
00:43:00.239 --> 00:43:28.559
I'm just saying, in in the last seven years, whenever a name comes up where it was just found out that there was a moral failure or abuse of leadership, it's always either the guy wasn't attached to a local church or he was a part of a local church, but he was the there was no peer accountability because he had been elevated to such an individualized role as kind of like the CEO, the king, if you will, of the church.
00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:32.480
And I just I find it interesting that there's that common denominator.
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:35.119
Yeah, that is interesting.
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:43.360
So two things that have come up in your testimony, just your your life, there's these talents the Lord's blessed you with music and with medicine.
00:43:43.679 --> 00:43:49.840
And so I remember one conversation I had with you after church, just seeing your depth of knowledge and apologetics.
00:43:50.079 --> 00:44:01.199
How would you describe how medicine has actually helped to benefit you in regards to just your Christian understanding of the world, God's creation, in regards to giving a defense and a Reason for the faith.
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:08.239
Yeah, boy, that's uh you could do a full podcast on that question.
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:24.000
So I mean, medicine day by day, you see well, you see the effects of the curse every single day.
00:44:25.199 --> 00:44:36.159
And also the limitations of our best efforts.
00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:48.559
And they you know the builders of the Tower of Babel, no matter how much they built, they could never get to heaven.
00:44:49.360 --> 00:45:00.480
And in medicine today, no matter how much technology advances, we'll never be able to reverse the curse using man-made technology.
00:45:02.639 --> 00:45:13.840
The now I do use man-made technology with the goal of making people better.
00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:23.599
However, there are still limitations and there are no guarantees that what I do is going to make people better.
00:45:24.159 --> 00:45:44.320
And I think probably one of the biggest humbling experiences, even soul searching experiences, is when you with the best intentions doing the best job you can, and there is a bad outcome.
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:49.840
And that's difficult.
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:09.840
Take it whichever way you'd like into sanctification.
00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:28.480
And like, you know, one of the hardest lessons, so to speak, to learn for me is am I going to be okay with God taking the life of one of my patients?
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:33.280
I mean, He's in control of whether they live or die.
00:46:33.440 --> 00:46:33.760
Yeah.
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:46.159
And it's a sobering reality that I'm not in control.
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:46.800
Yeah.
00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:59.760
And so gotta trust, trust the Lord, trust at the same time, like thankfully, that's not an everyday experience.
00:46:59.920 --> 00:47:03.599
So most of the time things go well.
00:47:03.840 --> 00:47:09.840
Most of the time, I'm able to make a good big difference in people's lives.
00:47:10.159 --> 00:47:24.559
And I've really been able to have some good conversations with people who are not believers, people who are believers and been there at the time where they needed encouragement.
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:32.880
And these are really great ways that the practice of medicine can minister to people.
00:47:33.039 --> 00:47:33.360
Yeah.
00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:52.000
I think as far as an apologetics goes, you see every aspect of the human physiology, and you see how well designed the human body is.
00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:52.800
Yeah.
00:47:53.199 --> 00:48:20.719
And you see how much intelligence there is in how the human body is constructed and all that, how much built in redundancy, so to speak, how much built in the I mean I the the human body is designed to heal itself, so to speak.
00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:29.679
There's a lot of healing mechanisms that obviously were functioning perfectly before the curse.
00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:32.000
No longer do they function perfectly.
00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:46.000
And so it's it's more like okay, I arrange things or I adjust things from a medical perspective, or you know, cut out infection or that sort of thing.
00:48:46.239 --> 00:48:53.760
And then it's God's creation of the the body then heals from that point.
00:48:54.400 --> 00:49:01.679
So medicine is a wonderful, wonderful field to be in.
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:02.320
Yeah.
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:17.519
You have any stories that you'd be willing to share, whether it were they would be stories that just showed you like God's glory as a creator of this human body, whether it's funny stories of you being a jokester with your residency students, any stories that you like to share from medicine?
00:49:18.400 --> 00:49:25.119
Well, so I don't know.
00:49:25.360 --> 00:49:38.079
A lot of the stories of me being a jokester with the residents and trainees are inside medical jokes.
00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:50.000
And that's one of the things that makes them so good is because like they completely take people by surprise.
00:49:50.880 --> 00:50:00.159
I mean, there are some times when I suggest things that are absolutely ridiculous, I say them with a straight face, yeah.
00:50:00.400 --> 00:50:02.559
And then you see them writing them down.
00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:04.639
And I have to be like, hey, wait a minute.
00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:06.559
Yeah, that was a joke.
00:50:06.880 --> 00:50:12.000
I didn't actually mean please do not order this medication for this patient.
00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:15.519
Please do not use that scalpel to cut out, you know, that body part.
00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:16.320
Yeah.
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:39.280
And so as far as like, I mean, ways that I've seen God work, I mean, I've seen him in situations that could have gone very wrong very quickly.
00:50:41.199 --> 00:51:05.760
Him really guiding us and it's there definitely been times when God is it's been clear that God is superintending.
00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:11.920
I hate to say like it's clear that God's at work because God's always at work.
00:51:12.079 --> 00:51:12.239
Yeah.
00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:21.760
Like, but God is superintending in the circumstance beyond what we would be capable of for the healing of our patients.
00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:22.400
Yeah.
00:51:22.639 --> 00:51:23.440
So good.
00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:24.480
Yeah.
00:51:24.880 --> 00:51:33.199
I can probably assume he was definitely superintending when you're pulling where they I think I asked you the other week 36 hour shifts yourself as a resident.
00:51:33.440 --> 00:51:35.519
That that yeah, that was as a resident.
00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:36.079
Yeah.
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:52.239
And that was a you know, uh a period in time when so when I was a resident, they so when cocaine was still illegal, that's how you got through the the shift?
00:51:52.559 --> 00:51:52.880
No.
00:51:53.920 --> 00:51:54.880
Vietnam era.
00:51:55.599 --> 00:51:58.400
I was not a resident during the Vietnam era.
00:51:59.199 --> 00:52:00.239
My goodness.
00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:12.239
But when I was a resident, that's when they first came out with this 80-hour per week limitation.
00:52:12.559 --> 00:52:13.760
Oh, how gracious of them.
00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:14.400
Yeah.
00:52:14.639 --> 00:52:16.000
So only 80.
00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:17.760
Only 80 hours.
00:52:18.719 --> 00:52:33.039
And they had stipulations about how you weren't you supposed to work more than okay, 24 hours plus four, which would be 28 if you're doing the math.
00:52:34.000 --> 00:52:49.119
The issue was that the program where I was training at the time hadn't really built the infrastructure and figured out, okay, how are we going to make this work?
00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:52.639
And so they were in the process.
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:59.679
And I was like, okay, and the worst offender, of course, was cardiology.
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:05.119
And cardiology was the area that I was wanting to go into.
00:53:05.360 --> 00:53:06.000
Yeah.
00:53:06.719 --> 00:53:09.599
Well, actually, cardiology was not the worst offender.
00:53:09.760 --> 00:53:20.880
Surgery was the worst offender, but like, so consequently, the governing bodies were busy trying to figure out what to do about surgery.
00:53:21.039 --> 00:53:24.480
And so, like, no one was really paying attention to cardiology.
00:53:24.559 --> 00:53:24.800
Yeah.
00:53:25.039 --> 00:53:28.000
But cardiology was the worst offender that pertains to me.
00:53:28.159 --> 00:53:42.800
And so, consequently, I was, you know, I want progress in cardiology, so I was working as hard as I can and basically justifying it to myself.
00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:48.000
Like, okay, that 80 hours is like average, right?
00:53:48.239 --> 00:53:50.800
You know, average over, you know.
00:53:51.519 --> 00:53:52.559
You were married at this time?
00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:52.960
Yeah.
00:53:53.519 --> 00:53:53.920
Kids?
00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:54.800
No kids.
00:53:55.039 --> 00:53:55.360
Okay.
00:53:56.159 --> 00:53:59.440
So Mary saw you for like five minutes or so.
00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:00.960
Mainly asleep.
00:54:01.199 --> 00:54:01.840
Yeah.
00:54:02.639 --> 00:54:04.639
Five minutes before I fell asleep.
00:54:06.719 --> 00:54:07.360
Anyway.
00:54:07.679 --> 00:54:08.159
Wow.
00:54:08.480 --> 00:54:14.159
Well, I am thinking that we may have to get to the rapid fire questions.
00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:15.119
I see that too.
00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:17.440
Because I know you got a hard stop at four o'clock.
00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:19.519
All right, I do have my rapid fire questions ready.
00:54:19.599 --> 00:54:21.599
That's what I was just pulling up on my phone.
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:24.480
And again, these are rapid fire.
00:54:24.559 --> 00:54:26.719
So And I have not reviewed these questions.
00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:27.760
So I'm so excited.
00:54:28.079 --> 00:54:29.039
Completely off the cuff.
00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:29.679
Yes.
00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:31.119
I'm trying to think.
00:54:31.519 --> 00:54:32.559
We'll use that one too.
00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:34.000
Yeah, we'll go for it.
00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:35.039
All right, here we go.
00:54:35.199 --> 00:54:35.599
Easy one.
00:54:36.000 --> 00:54:36.719
A quick layup.
00:54:36.880 --> 00:54:40.000
A quick uh what's the easiest procedure in cardiology?
00:54:40.480 --> 00:54:43.280
So the easiest because that's that's what this question would be.
00:54:43.519 --> 00:54:43.840
Okay.
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:51.039
So the easiest procedure in cardiology is what we call implantation of a loop recorder, which just goes under the skin.
00:54:51.199 --> 00:54:52.320
It takes about five minutes.
00:54:52.480 --> 00:54:54.800
You just stick it in, close up the skin.
00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:58.320
This will be the installation of a loop recorder.
00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:08.880
And some further further down, we'll get some conjugating of the Greek verb to use that phrase for the fourth time in this podcast, which I don't know if that's ever been done done before.
00:55:09.119 --> 00:55:10.800
All right, mountains or beach?
00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:12.400
Mountains.
00:55:12.639 --> 00:55:13.199
All right.
00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:16.239
What is your dream concert lineup?
00:55:17.119 --> 00:55:19.440
Three musicians, dead or alive.
00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:24.320
Well, live musicians are always more interesting to listen to than dead musicians.
00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:26.079
They play better.
00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:28.960
It's not Mozart's bones up there.
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:30.719
It's going to be Mozart himself in his prime.
00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:31.280
How about that?
00:55:31.519 --> 00:55:38.719
Anyway, I mean, so my my favorite living pianist is Andres Schiff.
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:44.960
He's now in his 80s and he plays just beautifully.
00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:48.079
Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Schubert.
00:55:48.320 --> 00:55:52.320
He tends to play more of the older music.
00:55:53.119 --> 00:56:06.880
And then, you know, if I could go back in time, if I had a time machine, I would love to go back to the 19th century and hear the composer Franz Liszt, who was evidently like the best pianist of all time.
00:56:07.119 --> 00:56:08.639
It would have been amazing to hear him.
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:09.440
Great.
00:56:09.679 --> 00:56:11.519
If I recall correctly, that's two musicians.
00:56:11.599 --> 00:56:12.400
Who's your third?
00:56:12.480 --> 00:56:13.679
Or did I miss one?
00:56:14.320 --> 00:56:17.599
No, though that's that's two musicians.
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:24.000
Math wasn't my strong suit in high school, so I'm trying to make sure don't make a donkey of myself.
00:56:25.039 --> 00:56:36.800
Oh, as far as a third, and I Marion the French horn?
00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:38.239
Of course.
00:56:38.480 --> 00:56:39.519
There we go.
00:56:40.079 --> 00:56:46.079
No, I mean, I would love to get my own concert together.
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:46.880
Yeah.
00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:50.559
And I love sharing music with other people.
00:56:50.800 --> 00:56:51.119
Yeah.
00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:51.440
Yeah.
00:56:51.679 --> 00:56:52.639
Performance setting.
00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:56.719
And that would be even more awesome is to do a concert together with Mary.
00:56:56.880 --> 00:56:57.119
Yeah.
00:56:57.280 --> 00:56:57.920
I agree.
00:56:58.079 --> 00:56:59.760
Well, we get into the works.
00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:00.320
All right.
00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:01.039
Next question.
00:57:01.280 --> 00:57:03.440
Any run-ins with the law?
00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:06.400
Oh boy.
00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:17.119
So the I did get pulled over a couple times when I was in medical school.
00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:20.159
We had rotations in different parts of Georgia.
00:57:20.320 --> 00:57:20.800
Yeah.
00:57:21.119 --> 00:57:24.800
And so I had to travel all of over Georgia.
00:57:25.119 --> 00:57:30.239
And, you know, may have missed speed limit sign change or two.
00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:39.199
And then there was this time late at night when I got pulled over, and the cop said, Did you notice that one of your headlights is burned out?
00:57:39.679 --> 00:57:41.440
And I said, No.
00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:44.880
Is there any place around here where I can get one?
00:57:45.199 --> 00:57:48.559
He's like, No, I don't think so.
00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:51.039
Get one as soon as you can.
00:57:53.679 --> 00:57:55.360
Use some logic to get out of that ticket.
00:57:55.599 --> 00:58:04.000
Well, I mean, I didn't know any place around where I was where there was a store that would be open.
00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:05.519
So, yeah.
00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:08.079
Anyway, the next day I got a headlight.
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:08.960
There you go.
00:58:09.119 --> 00:58:09.440
Yeah.
00:58:09.679 --> 00:58:09.920
All right.
00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:11.519
Favorite book.
00:58:13.119 --> 00:58:14.400
Besides the Bible, of course.
00:58:14.639 --> 00:58:14.960
Of course.
00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:15.280
Yeah.
00:58:15.360 --> 00:58:15.440
Okay.
00:58:15.760 --> 00:58:17.920
And Mounts' book on Greek, of course.
00:58:18.239 --> 00:58:18.400
Yeah.
00:58:18.480 --> 00:58:19.679
No, exactly.
00:58:20.079 --> 00:58:25.920
I I think as far as fiction goes, it it would be Lord of the Rings.
00:58:27.840 --> 00:58:32.159
The trilogy as a whole or one of the particular books individually?
00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:38.000
I mean, I'm gonna go with the trilogy as a whole.
00:58:38.239 --> 00:58:43.519
And I know some people might argue about using the word trilogy for that.
00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:52.559
I'm sorry, Paul Tompkins, Matt Fudge, Matt Johnson, and whoever else, uh Ross Eller, if you're listening to this, any of the other diehard Lord of the Rings fans, if I misspoke.
00:58:52.960 --> 00:58:56.079
I think it's it's we would consider it as one book.
00:58:56.639 --> 00:58:57.119
I see.
00:58:57.280 --> 00:58:57.920
I see.
00:58:58.480 --> 00:59:01.679
It's not three testaments, it's it's one book, huh?
00:59:01.920 --> 00:59:05.679
All right, I'm gonna change this one a little bit in light of your childhood.
00:59:06.000 --> 00:59:16.000
Would you rather fight a horse excuse me, a horse-sized broiler or 100 broiler-sized horses?
00:59:19.119 --> 00:59:20.480
Oh my goodness.
00:59:23.360 --> 00:59:24.880
What a question.
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:27.199
So there is a right answer.
00:59:27.360 --> 00:59:30.000
So right, yeah, I'm sure.
00:59:36.559 --> 00:59:48.639
Yeah, knowing how chickens think and how horses think or don't, I would rather fight one horse-sized broiler chicken.
00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:50.000
There we go.
00:59:50.320 --> 00:59:55.599
Because, like, I mean, I I I could scare it pretty quickly.
00:59:55.920 --> 01:00:01.679
For those city folks that don't know what a broiler is, it's just a meat bird, it's a it's a chicken that's grown for meat.
01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:02.639
Meat chicken, yeah.
01:00:02.800 --> 01:00:03.920
Yes, the meat chicken.
01:00:04.159 --> 01:00:08.079
All right, what is your most recent I'm getting old moment?
01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:12.960
It seems that several are coming to mind.
01:00:13.360 --> 01:00:14.639
Oh my goodness.
01:00:14.960 --> 01:00:17.119
Uh, we might need a podcast for that.
01:00:17.360 --> 01:00:26.719
Anyway, I you know, my family is always good about pointing out how many gray hairs are on my head.
01:00:27.039 --> 01:00:41.760
And as far as most recent, I was talking with a patient today, and they were kind of going through the list of things they'd noticed about getting old, and I find myself sitting there nodding my head.
01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:45.039
It's every single one.
01:00:45.599 --> 01:00:46.239
Yeah.
01:00:47.360 --> 01:00:48.239
Anyway.
01:00:48.719 --> 01:00:51.280
What is your favorite family tradition?
01:00:54.000 --> 01:01:05.760
Well, I like how we've been able to go back and see both of our families every year.
01:01:06.639 --> 01:01:19.199
So maybe at different times during the year, but we're usually able to go back and see my family a couple times or a few times through the year.
01:01:19.440 --> 01:01:26.000
And Mary and the girls are usually able to go see her family several times during the year.
01:01:26.320 --> 01:01:29.599
Most years I'm usually able to go with them at least once.
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:30.400
Yeah.
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:35.280
And so that I think is most important.
01:01:35.840 --> 01:01:36.320
Right.
01:01:37.039 --> 01:01:40.559
If you were a piece of furniture, what would you be?
01:01:43.599 --> 01:01:49.280
Well, I do I look like a piece of furniture?
01:01:49.519 --> 01:01:49.920
You do not.
01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:53.599
I'm just saying if you were a piece of furniture, what would you be?
01:01:53.920 --> 01:01:56.639
That's like I'm gonna come up with these things.
01:01:56.960 --> 01:02:01.440
Depending on your answer, there may be a streak that begins now.
01:02:01.679 --> 01:02:02.000
Okay.
01:02:02.159 --> 01:02:03.840
So we'll see what you answer.
01:02:04.800 --> 01:02:08.159
I am going to go with a bookshelf.
01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:09.360
Ah, there we go.
01:02:09.440 --> 01:02:10.239
The streak is broken.
01:02:10.320 --> 01:02:12.400
It stopped at two with Luke and Zach.
01:02:12.639 --> 01:02:12.960
Okay.
01:02:13.199 --> 01:02:15.360
Both of them chose to be a sitting furniture.
01:02:15.440 --> 01:02:19.519
So Luke wanted to be a barber chair, and Zach wanted to be a lounge chair.
01:02:19.840 --> 01:02:20.079
Okay.
01:02:20.480 --> 01:02:23.519
Which I remarked, they just want to be sat on, it seems.
01:02:23.760 --> 01:02:24.000
Yeah.
01:02:24.159 --> 01:02:25.599
So thankfully you don't want to be sat on.
01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:35.360
Well, you know, I would like to be kind of stuck in a place with a bunch of books on hand.
01:02:35.679 --> 01:02:36.000
There you go.
01:02:36.159 --> 01:02:37.840
I think bookshelf would be perfect.
01:02:38.079 --> 01:02:39.119
All right, two more.
01:02:39.360 --> 01:02:42.400
What hymn do you want sung at your funeral?
01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:54.000
Uh that's that's a tough question.
01:02:54.320 --> 01:02:54.880
It is.
01:02:55.119 --> 01:02:57.039
To get to Juice's phone a little bit.
01:02:57.199 --> 01:02:59.840
At my funeral, I want there to be a lot of tears, a lot of crying.
01:03:00.000 --> 01:03:02.639
I want there to be a little pond at on the floor.
01:03:02.880 --> 01:03:06.559
So I want the sand of time or sinking at my funeral.
01:03:07.360 --> 01:03:09.119
Do you get a cry session in there?
01:03:11.199 --> 01:03:15.760
I think I am going to not answer this question.
01:03:16.719 --> 01:03:19.519
And I've got I've got a good reason for that.
01:03:19.679 --> 01:03:30.480
And that is so my grandmother on my mom's side was very vocal about what hymn she wants sung at her funeral.
01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:31.039
Uh oh.
01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:41.920
And the problem with that is every time that hymn was sung, my mom is thinking, oh yeah, this is the song that my mom wants sung at her funeral.
01:03:42.719 --> 01:03:48.000
And so I am going to leave it.
01:03:48.320 --> 01:03:48.639
Yeah.
01:03:49.039 --> 01:03:53.599
Like we're going, we're going to not answer that question.
01:03:53.840 --> 01:03:57.519
That way Mary and the girls can enjoy that hymn for the next 50 years.
01:03:57.679 --> 01:03:58.000
Yeah.
01:03:58.159 --> 01:03:58.480
Yes.
01:03:58.719 --> 01:04:02.880
And not think about me dying every time that him is son.
01:04:03.760 --> 01:04:04.320
All right.
01:04:04.559 --> 01:04:08.559
And finally, what are you most encouraged by at Emmaus right now?
01:04:10.559 --> 01:04:18.239
Well, right now, I'm encouraged that there's a plumbing truck out in the back.
01:04:18.480 --> 01:04:24.239
Uh if you're talking about immediately working toilets at the church.
01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:25.760
Yeah, exactly.
01:04:26.079 --> 01:04:35.039
But no, I'm really in terms of long-term, I'm really encouraged as to the trajectory of our church.
01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:37.599
Our church continues to grow.
01:04:37.760 --> 01:04:41.119
Our church continues to develop leadership.
01:04:41.280 --> 01:04:41.840
Yeah.
01:04:42.239 --> 01:04:50.000
And our members are growing, and it's really a great place to be.
01:04:50.159 --> 01:04:50.559
Yeah.
01:04:50.800 --> 01:04:57.440
So well, Pastor, thank you for all that you do for our church for shepherding us, praying for us, teaching us, and just modeling your life for us.
01:04:57.599 --> 01:04:59.199
It's been a very big encouragement.
01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:00.800
Thank you for the opportunity.
01:05:01.039 --> 01:05:01.519
Yeah.
01:05:02.239 --> 01:05:02.719
All right.
01:05:03.039 --> 01:05:03.679
See you later.
01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:04.239
Okay.