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includes three bean vegan chili, vegan, mushroom marsala harrisa I think that's all
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you say it, braised garbanzos stew. The next week, my vegan options
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are peanut boot aball, tomato,
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almond stir fry, and blacken tofu. Those are the meals I'm looking forward
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to the next few weeks. You
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So head to Factor meals dot com
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fifty to get fifty percent off your
first box. Now PW Dorgan Spreaker bring
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you the Wade Killow Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for Wade's interview with one
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of pro Wrestling's newsmakers. Five years
ago. This month, I interviewed former
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WWWE creative Team member Jason Allen.
I broke the interview into two parts.
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One dropped on June one, twenty
eighteen, the second one on June eighth,
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twenty eighteen, and we bring you
both installments today on the Wade Keller
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Pro Wrestling Podcast. Interview Classic for
Sunday, June eleventh, twenty twenty three.
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In part one, it was a
tenth anniversary of his time in WWE
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in two thousand and eight, and
he talked about life as a writer behind
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the scenes, how we got his
job, what it was like on the
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first day, and how we adapted
to the lifestyle, why it came to
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an end, and various fascinating anecdotes
about the creative process and the big names
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he worked with. Then, in
part two, he talked about how he
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ended up realizing life as a w
W writer might not have been a good
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long term fit for him. Including
a conversation on a plane with mcfoley about
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the debts he was having. Plus
some insights into some happenings in WWE in
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two thousand and eight, including John
Cena's poopy incident with JBL's Limo, the
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Mike Adamley disaster, insight into Vincic
Man's quirky million dollars giveaway on RAW that
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was fifteen years ago, wow,
and how people reacted internally to that.
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Also, did writers check out online
reviews of their shows, how it was
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difficult to watch veteran wrestlers be a
shell of their former selves backstage when the
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cameras are off, and much more. This is a fascinating interview. These
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interviews that I conducted dozens of them
with x WWE creative team members always provide
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insight you just can't get anywhere else. These are non wrestlers, kind of
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they feel like outsiders a little bit
sometimes in WWE they're, you know,
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at times, a close knit group. I know, I've observed them just
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hanging out after matches together while the
wrestlers are in a totally different zone.
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But these interviews give us a window
into the dynamic that exists between non wrestling
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or non X wrestler writers and vincc
Man and the wrestling the wrestlers themselves.
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So I think you really enjoy this, especially if you didn't hear it the
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first time. But even if you
did, I know there's aspects of this
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interview I don't recall details of and
I look forward to listening to all of
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this again myself. So let's let's
do it together. Here here we go
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with this weekend's interview Classic again with
Jason Allen. Now Podcast one brings you
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the Wade Killer Pro Wrestling Podcast.
It's time for Keller's interview with one of
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pro wrestling newsmakers. There's so many
different ways that one could experience working in
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WWE, and we hear from a
lot of wrestlers and announcers and sometimes referees
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even and X creative team members.
And today we have another guest on Interview
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Friday here on the Way Killer Prosing
podcast at Podcast one, and that is
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Jason Allen, who worked Jason,
what would you say your official title was
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for your stint ten years ago with
WWE At the time we were called writer
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assistants. Yeah, and so Christian
Harlock was on the show earlier this year
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and talked about his short stay as
a podcast one host covering movies and he
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had a short stay in WWE,
and we had a really fun conversation about
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that experience with him. And then
Jason contacted me and said, well,
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I feel like I can have a
similar experience to share it but at a
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different time. And I love hearing
about situations like this where somebody comes in,
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spend some time at the company,
and then is still a wrestling fan
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now ten years well, ten years
later, we're getting too long. You've
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been a fan and all that and
can look back on that and talk about
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what the experience was like and share
it with all of us. So,
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Jason, Jason Allen, thank you
for taking time to join us today.
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Yeah, thanks for having me Waite
excellent. So what I want to do
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is kind of just set the table
a little bit on when when you first
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became a wrestling fan, and when
it first entered your mind that maybe you
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wanted to work for w WA,
and how when the heck get it up
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being a writer's assistant back in two
thousand and eight. All Right, Well,
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I mean as far back as I
can really remember, I remember being
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aware of wrestling and being interested in
wrestling as a child of the eighties.
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I mean, Hawkomania was just something
you couldn't really escape. It was there,
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everybody was talking about it. It
was there was there was no way
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to kind of avoid it because it
was what everybody was into. I'd probably
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say my most vivid first memory of
wrestling was the time that that Undertaker locked
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Ultimate Warrior in the casket. I
remember that really kind of frightening me and
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sticking with me as as something that
I didn't want to happen to me at
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any point, and and it just
kind of hung with me there. And
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then all of my friends were very
into it, you know, attitude era
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kind of time. And I hung
through it. You know, two thousand
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and four, two thousand and five
had I had a lot of people,
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you know, um, oh you're
still into that. People still watch that.
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So push through that stuff. And
I got into it to it as
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a job because I didn't really know
what I wanted to do. I was
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going to college in South Florida,
and I went into my academic advisor's office
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and and she's like, you know, why why are you here? What
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do you wish to accomplish in college? And you know, I just said
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it seemed like the right place to
go after high school, and yeah,
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I don't really don't want him here. And she said, well, I'll
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tell you what, if you could
if you could do anything, or if
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you could be anybody, what would
you be. And I thought about it
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for a second and I said,
you know, I'd probably be Jim Ross.
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And I had to kind of explain
to her who that was, and
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then she understood exactly what I was
looking to do. And then so I
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got into broadcasting and mass coom and
things like that and finished up with a
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bachelor's in that, and then it
was just a matter of getting WWE's attention.
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So I graduated in December of six
and I started applying there pretty much
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immediately because I noticed that they always
had writer positions open on the job board.
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I would find out why later on, but there was a writer assistant
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position there and it was just daily. I mean I would I would apply
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to it online daily. It got
to the point where I was I was
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sending mailers and I was sending a
certified letters. I was just grabbing random
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names that I could possibly think of, you know, uh, John Smith
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at WWE dot com. John Smith
at wwecorp dot com, you know,
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you know, just throwing everything I
possibly could at the wall. And then
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I bought my tickets. This was
in February. I bought my tickets for
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WrestleMania twenty four in Orlando, and
about an hour and a half after I
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got that Ticketmaster receipt, my phone
rang and it was a recruiter for WWE
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00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:03.559
and he said, hey, you
know, first go ahead and stop with
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00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:11.519
the resumes. We're good, we
got plenty. Thanks for that. Are
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00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:13.639
you still interested? And I was
like, well, yeah, of course,
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you know, like you have a
certified mailing from me a day ago.
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Yeah, I'm interested. And then
he said, okay, I'll call
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you back. And we kind of
played this back in fourth game for about
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three or four weeks, and then
finally he calls me and he says,
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hey, we want to bring you
up. Can you be in Stanford,
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you know, on on Friday.
I don't remember the exact date, but
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can you be up here? And
I said, yeah, done deal,
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I'll be there at you know,
eight am. So I fly up,
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you know, one day trip,
go in, do the interview process,
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meet with a few different people,
fly back, get a call, a
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few days later and they're like,
you know, pack your stuff, guy,
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your your movement to Stanford. You
get up here, you know,
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April first. So at this point
you've got the you call it to run
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00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:03.639
around or would you just call it
a process you had to endure and be
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00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:07.159
patient during. Yeah, I wouldn't
definitely, definitely wouldn't call it to run
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00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:11.960
around. I never felt like,
you know, like they were too busy
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00:11:11.159 --> 00:11:15.200
or you know, they want to
just like keep me simmering or make me
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earn it or anything like that.
It was more just you were waiting to
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see if this other guy players out
okay, because there because there's always it's
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like they never stop hiring for that
kind of role, but they have to
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wait until there's an actual vacancy to
bring someone in. Yeah. Yeah,
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so you get the green light.
And at this point, are you as
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excited as you imagined or are you
nervous that you know, the proverbial dog
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catching the bumper? Oh god,
now I've got to go do this?
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Like what was It's it's sort of
like going off to college, but you're
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going off to Stanford. Talk about
your mindset as this dream finally came to
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fruition. Yeah, I mean,
I was very, very pumped. The
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thing that kind of made me uneasy
was, you know, I'm moving a
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thousand miles away from home home,
and this is not a guaranteed gig by
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any means. This is not like
a full time salarad career with benefits and
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stuff where they know who you are
and they want you to be there.
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This is a three month trial period
and at that point, if you're not
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cutting it, you know you're done. And then so now I'm a thousand
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miles away from home and I'm working
your basic job that I could have gotten
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at home, and I'm stuck in
this long term lease and stuff, and
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you know, so it was I
was definitely nervous in that aspect. I
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never doubted that I could do the
job or could do what was asked to
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me. I knew that I could
succeed, you know, if my heart
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00:12:39.240 --> 00:12:41.000
was in it. And so I
went up there, you know, guns
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blaze, and packed up what I
could in my car and off it went.
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One way that you can help us
sustain our schedule of putting out podcasts
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00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:54.320
throughout the week is by giving us
a five star reading on Apple Podcasts.
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Just go to Apple podcast and look
for our Weight Killer Processing podcast and Weight
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Killer Processing post show and give us
a five star rating. We hope you
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think we've earned that score with our
fast turnaround times and our quantity and quality
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of wrestling analysis throughout the week.
So take a moment out for us and
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do us favor and give us a
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can add a few comments about what
you like about the programs in the comments
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section. Thank you so much.
So what kind of prep did they give
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you? I mean, I'm interested
in minutia like dress code, how early
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to show up, who to talk
to, like how much did they kind
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of have because obviously they go through
this with a lot of a lot of
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00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:43.919
writing assistants, so they've probably felt
like you're signing up for something that was
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a process and it was sort of
refined. Did you get that sense?
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Yeah, definitely felt like there was
kind of a there was a machinery in
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play where you got there and it's
like, oh, okay, that's the
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new guy, and you stay the
new guy until someone knew or shows up
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right. I mean, I was
told by the recruiter that at you know,
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00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:03.480
hey, you're gonna be at TV
UM two sometimes three days a week.
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You got to wear suit and tie
every time you're there, show up
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day one to TV suit and tie. I'm the only one in that kind
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of stuff. Um. Everybody else
is nicely dressed, but definitely not you
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know, not as as corporate as
I looked at the time. It was,
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you know, made very clear early
on, like, Okay, there's
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there's a couple of things that you're
gonna that you're gonna need to know as
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far as our brotherhood, so to
speak, and that is anytime you see
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somebody first time, doesn't matter,
shake them, shake their hand, look
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him in the eye, say hello, good to see us. Some guys
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like to be called by their character
name. Some guys prefer this name.
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UM. So you start to pick
up on those things real quick, you
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know, like like Undertaker is taker, or he's undertaker, he's you don't
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call him anything else, you know. And if you approached him and you
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shake his hand and stuff like that, and you're you don't show any intimidation,
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but you show respect, and then
that we're different kind of I don't
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want to call him rules, but
just different kind of moras for different guys.
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So you kind of pick up on
those things as you go. And
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Uh, I made the mistake of
not shaking Dusty Rhodes hand one time early
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on in the day, and for
the rest of the day, it was
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like every time I passed him,
he'd looked at me and he'd shake my
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hand and he's like, who are
you again? And so he definitely like
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you ripped me for the next you
know, a couple of days about that,
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and uh, you know, it's
it's just small stuff like that,
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stuff that you wouldn't really think of
um as being important, but it's important
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to that to that culture, into
that family. Yeah. Interesting, So
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if you remember talk about a few
of the other peculiar or particular ways that
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you had to approach talent or or
high end staff, like you know Dusty,
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uh differently than others, Like does
anything else jump out in terms of
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Okay, this is how you approach
this guy, but don't do it with
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this guy. This is a different
approach. I mean, each guy kind
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of had their own vibe. You
know. Some guys were very involved in
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the in the pros, and other
guys were were sort of kind of off
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on their own doing their own thing, and a lot of it had to
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do with their position on the card
at the time. Uh, you know,
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Triple H and Sean would kind of
you know, hang off this to
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the side and and you know,
talk business and work through their programs with
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each other, bouncing stuff off of
them, So they weren't really involved with
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a person like me, you know, aside from me just going to get
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them and say, hey, we're
going to do this pre tape. Mid
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card guys were much more involved in
the process with with someone like me like
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I dealt a lot with Santino and
uh, Miss and Morrison at the time,
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Shelton, Benjamin, the Legacy group, Um, those guys were much
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more eager to kind of talk to
me and bounce ideas off of me,
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even though you know, technically not
really all that high on my own totem
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pole. But you know, I
was, I was accessible, whereas you
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know, maybe some of the other
guys weren't always available, you know,
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maybe uh, you know, Brian
wasn't available at the time, or DJ
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00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:04.079
wasn't available at the time, so
they would kind of pass stuff through me.
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00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:07.960
You know. It worked a lot
with with Miss and Morrison when they
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were having their feud with Finley and
Hornswoggle. I mean, I remember sitting
253
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down with those four guys and hammering
stuff out for a little bit. So
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let's talk just a little bit about
that. Walking in the door. You
255
00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:25.240
know, you're supposed to shake hands
with people. Are you given a place
256
00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:29.000
to go in an assignment on this
first day? Are you told to just
257
00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:33.160
sit back and observe? Are you
shadowing somebody? Talk about that first day
258
00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:37.759
at TV? Okay, so the
first day, there's not really a call
259
00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:41.119
time for me, so to speak, because I'm just kind of going with
260
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the school of fish, you know. So we're told, you know,
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be at the building by twelve,
and it's just I'm in a car with
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the other people that are going there
at twelve o'clock and we get in there
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and the first thing that we're going
to do is we're going to set up
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the room for the production meeting.
We're going to lay out soda and chips
265
00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:03.839
and stuff. And that's one of
those other kind of nuances that you learn
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00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:07.240
over time. You're like, Okay, this guy has to have two diet
267
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:11.799
cokes. And it reminds me a
lot of like like those concert writers you
268
00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:14.799
hear about sometimes whereas some people are
like, you know, only green m
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00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:19.039
and M's and no one was that
that meticulous, but it was very particular
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00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:22.880
that you know, these certain sodas
be here and no no vitamin waters and
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you know that kind of thing.
So we would set up the room for
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everyone who's going to be involved in
that kind of script reading and redrafting process.
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That would be the first thing we'd
do. No, and then it's
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just a matter of okay, here's
a revision, here's a revision, here's
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00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.720
a revision, handing out new scripts
as they're as they're changed, and you
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00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:41.359
know, going to a guy like
Arn't Anderson and he's like, oh my
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00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:45.240
gosh, this is the ninth page
you've handed me. You know how many
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00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:48.240
more of these am I going to
have? And and you know him throw
279
00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:52.359
it in, not throwing but him
handing me the existing one and I'll here
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00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:56.440
take this away, and him copying
his notes over from one side to the
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other. Um. You know,
So that was a big part of that.
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00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:04.039
That's sort of auxiliary person, that
writer's assistant person where you have creative
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00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:10.400
input, but on the road at
TV, your primary role is to facilitate
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to create a process. Yeah,
I have a great idea by all means
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00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:17.480
to chime in, but for the
most part, you know, get the
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00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:19.440
coffee, get the copies, keep
people happy, grab me this guy,
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00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:22.799
tell people to be quiet, you
know that kind of stuff. So how
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00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:26.640
old are you at this point?
I think I was about I was twenty
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00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:30.720
six at the time, and so
how what level of star struck are you
290
00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:36.039
at this point? And had you
been around famous people that you saw on
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TV before? And how did you
handle whatever those feelings were where it's like,
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00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:42.519
this is my job, you know, and look like, you know,
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act like you belong, but you're
also kind of taking a lot in
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00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:48.799
that you've been watching all these years. Yeah, it was a really weird
295
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thing for me because I thought that
it would affect me a lot more than
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it did. But it didn't have
too much effect on me at all.
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And I think that had a part
to with my departure there. I think
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because the quote unquote reverence for the
talent as far as being you know,
299
00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:11.400
stars and stuff just really wasn't there
for me. I mean, it was
300
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it was cool to interact with a
guy like Triple H you know, because
301
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he was a fan favorite, you
know, a favorite of mine, you
302
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know, coming up through the attitude
error, he was definitely one of my
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00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:25.599
favorite wrestlers, you know, so
meeting him for the first time was interesting.
304
00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:27.920
But it was never like, oh
my god, tell me about you
305
00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:30.799
know, tell me about Madison Square
Garden with Cactus Jack. I have to
306
00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:33.920
note that dumb tax hurt, you
know. There was never anything like that
307
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:37.960
for me. I had a high
level of respect for them and what they
308
00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:41.920
did, but it was kind of
like, you know, I appreciated my
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chance to sort of peek behind the
curtain, and I didn't want to ruin
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00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:49.480
that by being a fan now afterward, when you're not at TV or you
311
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:52.799
know, you're kind of like at
the hotel bar afterward, or you're in
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00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:56.680
the elevator riding up to your room, you know, that's where you have
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00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.319
those little candid moments where you can
kind of be a fan just a little
314
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:02.880
bit. Where do you tell a
guy like, oh man, you really
315
00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:07.440
nailed that promo. I was really
into what you were saying, and at
316
00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:10.400
that point you're saying it to him
more as a fan than as a as
317
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a writer. So there were little
kind of snippets of that, but there
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00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:17.599
was never anybody, not even with
Vince really where it was like, oh
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my god, I can't believe them
in the same room right now with you.
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By the way, if you're enjoying
this interview with Jason Allen, x
321
00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:26.680
w WV Creative Team member, if
you're a VIP member, you can dive
322
00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:30.839
into our VIP Member Interview special section, which has nearly a hundred interview installments
323
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:36.559
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324
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late nineteen nineties all the way through
some writers in recent years. There are
325
00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:45.759
over a dozen X Creative Team members
that I've interviewed, some of them many
326
00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:49.759
times about many different major events,
getting background on how they got their jobs,
327
00:21:51.039 --> 00:21:53.680
some crazy stories about Vince McMahon and
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to Pwtorch dot com slash go viip
and sign up today. All right,
340
00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:03.400
so back to my interview with one
time WWE creative team member Jason Allen.
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00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:06.960
He worked for WWE for six months
back in two thousand and eight, so
342
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:10.640
we're on the tenure anniversary of his
time with the company, and we're talking
343
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:15.160
about what it was like to be
a guy in his mid twenties getting his
344
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:21.000
dream job after trying very hard to
get in the door with WWE and trying
345
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:26.359
to orient himself to that atmosphere to
the company, which is, you know,
346
00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:32.279
not like an average workplace. So
let's talk about the social morays on
347
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:34.960
the writing team, and and just
some specifics. I mean, you mentioned
348
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:41.279
Brian and DJ. Elaborate for listeners
on who they were and talk a little
349
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.640
bit about how that structure worked.
Did it feel welcoming, did it feel
350
00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:48.680
territorial? Get into kind of that
aspect of it. So when I got
351
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:52.559
there, we had the three different
shows that we were all writing for.
352
00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:56.680
We were writing for ROW, SmackDown, and ECW, and we were broken
353
00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:02.519
into teams. They were weren't official
teams, meaning, you know, if
354
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:06.079
you had a really good pitch for
a SmackDown talent and you worked with the
355
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:08.559
Raw team, you couldn't. There
was always an avenue for you to do
356
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:12.920
that, because, I mean,
you're with these people constantly, and when
357
00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:17.279
we were talking eighty ninety hours a
week, you know, you're you're there
358
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:21.279
with the people who are putting pen
to paper and making these things happen.
359
00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:26.119
So it wasn't like anything was off
limits. My official role was that I
360
00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:32.640
was a writer assistant for the Raw
team, which meant my direct boss would
361
00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:36.680
be Brian Gowartz, who was the
lead writer of Raw at the time.
362
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:45.240
On the SmackDown side, it was
mostly it was mostly Michael Hayes DJ,
363
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:51.799
who most people would know as Big
Dick Johnson in his on air roll DJ,
364
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:56.400
and then ye had Ed Koski who's
still there. Those were the main
365
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:03.200
backbone, and Dave Kapor was was
huge and I really appreciate it Dave because
366
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.319
he was one of the ones that
I kind of clung to the most,
367
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:07.839
I think out of that whole group
as far as you know, what do
368
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:12.160
I do? What do I say? The other writer assistant there that helped
369
00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:15.200
train me, he was awesome too, and he had been there for a
370
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:18.440
couple months prior to me being there, so you really kind of had it
371
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.039
had, you know, everything on
Lockdown and he was happy to have some
372
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:26.920
support, so that worked out really
well. But basically, I mean you
373
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.079
had those two teams, and there
were other associate writers, you know,
374
00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:33.559
three or four on each team that
helped make it happen. But SmackDown in
375
00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:37.200
ECW generally kind of got grouped together
because they were taped the same day,
376
00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:41.759
so that team was kind of one
team. Ed Kosky really kind of focused,
377
00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:45.759
I think more on ECW, although
he was very involved in producing a
378
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.720
lot of stuff for both shows.
He was constantly there, you know,
379
00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:52.359
right next events kind of going over
shots and this is going to happen,
380
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:55.559
This is going to happen. And
of course Brian, you know, Brian
381
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:00.920
was instrumental and everything that happened on
Raw. Well, to talk a little
382
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:03.359
bit about Brian Gortz, Uh,
he put people have a lot to say
383
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.480
about him, even though he doesn't
seek out much publicity. He's done a
384
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:11.200
one or two interviews about his time
there, very tight with the rock.
385
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.519
Uh, you're you're looking at this
through the lens of somebody now in your
386
00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:18.519
mid third he's looking back at that
experience. Uh, what what did you
387
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:23.920
pick up on in terms of uh
Gwertz and the dynamic he had with other
388
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:29.039
writers and McMahon And did he seem
like the alpha? Did he seem more
389
00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:32.799
Columbo like? Like kind of Uh, your guard could be down because he
390
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.720
didn't give off a vibe of being
important, even though he was very important.
391
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:40.160
So when I went up for the
interview, I first sat down with
392
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.279
the recruiter who had called me up
to Stanford, and UM, we're talking
393
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.319
and stuff and and just a real
basic you know, who are you?
394
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:52.279
Why do you want to be here? Kind of thing and uh, and
395
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:55.960
then he goes, uh, so
I'm sorry, but none of the other
396
00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:57.400
people who need to talk to you
are here today. And I'm thinking,
397
00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:03.240
like, you know, I've I've
flew up here, and yeah, definitely,
398
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:06.759
not like well why couldn't they be
bothered to be here for me,
399
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:08.079
but kind of like, well,
what am I supposed to do now?
400
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:11.640
And he said, tell you what, We're gonna We're gonna pay for you
401
00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:14.799
to get a cab. We're gonna
send you down to the train station.
402
00:27:14.839 --> 00:27:18.319
There was one right down the street
from the office, and you're gonna ride
403
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.359
into Grand Central and h then you're
gonna walk six blocks this way and four
404
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:26.359
blocks that way and go up to
the you know, seventeenth floor and and
405
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:30.400
Brian will be there. And so
you know, like I'm not some you
406
00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:33.240
know, naive child, but I
had never been to New York City.
407
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:36.759
So I go through all of those
motions. I go up there and and
408
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:40.599
then there's Brian behind the counter,
and U. I mean, the first
409
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:45.039
my first impression was like, you
know, this guy's m this guy's kind
410
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.960
of quiet. He seems like,
you know, he seems sort of to
411
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:53.200
himself, kind of lost in his
own thought from time to time, but
412
00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:59.960
extremely sharp. He had a very
good rapport with with everybody that I encountered.
413
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:06.440
It never got the vibe that Brian
was above anybody or above anything else,
414
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:11.200
even though he was extremely influential backstage, certain guys would would definitely cling
415
00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:17.119
to him in that sort of rock
type relationship, you know, like Sena.
416
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:21.480
He would work closely with Sena.
As far as Burbage, he and
417
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:26.119
Jericho worked extremely close together. From
what I could see during the Jericho's whole
418
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:30.640
summer program with Michaels, like every
bat of that story came out of the
419
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.440
two of them just kind of sitting
in the writer's room and hammering that out.
420
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:36.200
What are we going to say?
What are we going to do?
421
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:41.359
And I think that's important, you
know, especially for talent to establish their
422
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.440
own voice and not just take what's
written on the page, because you know,
423
00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:48.799
sometimes what we were right is,
you know, captures the bullets of
424
00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:52.200
what needs to happen, but it
doesn't speak in their narrative or in their
425
00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:59.640
voice. And Jericho was really important
in getting that program to work. But
426
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:06.839
I mean Brian, Brian was often
handed, you know, unsolvable problems with
427
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:11.319
the task of making them work.
We would often be in the writer's room
428
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.000
on a Wednesday, for example,
and we've just done two TVs and you
429
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:18.400
know, people are kind of a
little bushed from the road and we're sitting
430
00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:23.519
around kind of debriefing what happened,
where we're going, and then Brian would
431
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:26.759
walk in after he just had an
hour long meeting with Vents, and then
432
00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:30.720
he would drop this bomb on us, Hey, this is what we're doing.
433
00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:34.039
How does this? How do we
make this work? You know?
434
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.599
That's that's how the Adamley think came
about. As he just came in and
435
00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:42.359
he was like, so Mike Adamley
is going to be the GM of Raw
436
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:47.279
And we just kind of all sat
there with our jaws on the floor and
437
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:52.160
it's like, okay, so that's
what we're doing. Same kind of thing
438
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.559
with the Championship Scramble, like he
had to come in that was the main
439
00:29:56.599 --> 00:30:00.359
event for two of the or two
main events for the unfre of a pay
440
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:02.960
per view, Like there was a
brand new concept and he had to come
441
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:07.839
in and basically pitch it to us
because this was an idea that I think
442
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:11.440
Patterson had come up with, and
it came down the pipe that this was
443
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:14.839
something we were gonna do and it's
like okay, well, like how do
444
00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:18.599
we how do we get there?
So Brian would be handed these things where
445
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:22.440
it's like, hey, you gotta
work slim gyms into the script or whatever.
446
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:26.000
And he would come in and his
job was to kind of motivate us,
447
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:29.799
to get the best out of us, so that we could make those
448
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:33.440
ideas that were coming down, sometimes
from advertising, sometimes from Vince, we
449
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:40.039
could make those things work in a
storyline context. But he was, I
450
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:42.279
mean, extremely dedicated. He's one
of the hardest working people I think I've
451
00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:45.119
ever met, and he carried a
lot, a lot of that burden,
452
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:48.680
you know, on his shoulders,
and at times, you know, it
453
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:53.000
would seem like it it warmed down
a bit. Yeah, yeah, interesting.
454
00:30:56.079 --> 00:31:00.359
A little sidebar because this is fascinating. You really enjoy talking about this
455
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.799
aspect of behind the scenes in WWE. What was social life like? Well,
456
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:07.240
you know what, let me actually
for the sake of listeners, because
457
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:08.319
I know a little bit about this, but I haven't had you talked about
458
00:31:08.359 --> 00:31:11.839
you yet. How long did you
stay there? Right, let's actually kind
459
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:15.759
of cover how long you were there
and why you left, so we kind
460
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:18.480
of have know where the endpoint is. And then We're going to fill in
461
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:21.920
that period with some more stories,
and I've got some follow up questions,
462
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:26.799
but let's actually go to that now
and talk about the date you started,
463
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:30.319
what you kind of remember was going
on storyline wise then, and then how
464
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:33.480
long you were there and what led
to your departure, and I'm sure that's
465
00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:37.039
kind of a pretty big part of
your story. So go ahead with that
466
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:40.559
now, and then I'll ask those
other questions. Okay, yeah, yeah,
467
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:42.240
I started, like I said,
so, I bought the WrestleMania twenty
468
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:48.680
four tickets, and when I went
there to watch the show in Orlando,
469
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:52.799
I knew that I would be joining
this team and I was basically leaving.
470
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:57.720
My car was packed waiting for me
to come back home and drive out That
471
00:31:57.880 --> 00:32:05.440
next Monday. I went in there
and started Tuesday after Mania twenty four,
472
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:07.599
and the guys were still out on
the road, so it was just me,
473
00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:14.920
you know, and I'm walking around
the halls and stuff in Stanford and
474
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:19.960
there's just these, you know,
really great pay per view posters everywhere,
475
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.599
and I go in the writer's room
and there's toys all over the place,
476
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:28.079
you know, from guys who like
had an action figure made. But then
477
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:34.119
they never got signs, so it's
like these one off toys. And and
478
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:37.799
I went in to meet Stephanie because
she wasn't there when I first started or
479
00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:40.960
when I came up for the interview. And Stephanie's like seven months eight months
480
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:45.599
pregnant at this point with her first
child. And she comes up to me
481
00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:49.920
and she's just so sweet and so
so nice, and she's like, oh,
482
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:52.119
hi, I'm so nice to meet
to look, I swear I'm not
483
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:55.400
a diva and I'm not like this, but I need a blueberry muffin right
484
00:32:55.400 --> 00:33:00.680
now. So I was my first
official task was to run myself down to
485
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:06.000
the donut shop and get Stephanie a
blueberry muffin. So there there are times
486
00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:08.440
I absolutely wish I could just shout
out, I want a blueberry muffin and
487
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:10.839
I would have one a you know, twenty minutes later. That would be
488
00:33:10.839 --> 00:33:16.039
really nice. Yeah, So there
was that, And I worked all through
489
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:20.279
that summer, so we did I
think six or seven pay per views in
490
00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:23.039
the short amount of time that I
was there, and pretty much right after
491
00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:30.880
Unforgiven, which was September seventh,
I remember going down and taking the walk
492
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:36.359
to HR on September eleven, two
thousand and eight, so a relatively short
493
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:39.599
stint. I did my three month
tenure and they extended me on a month
494
00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:45.000
to month basis and just kind of
learned over time that this wasn't you know,
495
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:52.839
a long term lifestyle for me.
Do you remember when Hulkogan shot the
496
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:57.000
world and formed the New World Order? Or when Stone Cold Steve Aouston passed
497
00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:00.119
down on the Sharp Shooter to breath
the hit Man hard. I'm Torch contributor
498
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:06.359
Frank Pettianni, and I've reviewed these
shows and many more for my exclusive VIP
499
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:09.440
podcast, Pro Wrestling Than and Now. Together with a rotating chair of co
500
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:14.639
hosts, we go back ten,
twenty, even thirty years, review pay
501
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.199
per views from top to bottom,
talk about where the wrestlers were at the
502
00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:21.719
time, and compare what took place
then to what is taking place now.
503
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:27.440
You get exclusive access to these and
other podcasts as part of your Pwtorch VIP
504
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:31.800
membership, which is compatible with the
Apple Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch dot com
505
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:46.199
slash go vip for details and sign
up form. Talk about the lifestyle,
506
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:53.760
the social life for the writers relative
to other people who work for WWA and
507
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:57.639
even within the writing team. You
know how that is a little bit different.
508
00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:01.760
How how how do you look back
on that period of time that you
509
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:06.880
were on the road and living that
very different schedule that I think most people
510
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:13.280
experience. I think it really depends
you you buy into the lifestyle to your
511
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:17.000
level of comfort. I think it's
very much when people would ask me,
512
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:21.480
you know, what's what's it like, why aren't you there? You know
513
00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:24.039
that I would kill to have that
job. That kind of thing um to
514
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:28.519
me. It's very much like being
in a rock band, where you know,
515
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.119
you go to a venue, you
set up, you do the show,
516
00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:36.480
it's eleven thirty, you go back
to the hotel and everybody's at the
517
00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:38.840
hotel bar, and then you know, if you're not, if you're not
518
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:44.880
really part of that, It's it's
very easy to find yourself. I don't
519
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:49.280
want to say blackballed that because that's
the wrong term, but you're just you
520
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:52.320
come across as like, well,
he's not one of us, you know,
521
00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:54.239
And and I tried to do that. I tried to be that person
522
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:59.039
for a while, you know,
not necessarily with the heavy drinking, but
523
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:04.400
just try to, you know,
play into that part and be that person
524
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:07.880
and I found out that it really
wasn't for me because social wise, that's
525
00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:12.440
it, Like that is all you
have. You have the people around you,
526
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:16.440
and you're flying on planes and riding
in cars constantly with the writing team.
527
00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:21.320
Sometimes you know, you have a
talent in the car with you if
528
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.159
they didn't have a car or something
like that. And I mean, that
529
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:25.920
really becomes your family. And you
kind of look, you kind of look
530
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:30.320
above you at at some of the
other people that are there, and you're
531
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:34.400
like, you know, do they
have families, do they have kids?
532
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:37.480
If they do, do they ever
see them? You know? And and
533
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:39.320
that was really what started to kind
of eat at me, not because I
534
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:43.920
had that stuff, because I wanted
that stuff. I went up there,
535
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:47.880
you know, solo person. You
know, didn't know anybody anything or you
536
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:53.280
know, no one was entitled to
my time except for me and the social
537
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:57.880
circles small. Like I never developed
any friends when I was in Stanford because
538
00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:01.079
there was no time. You you
come off the show and like I said,
539
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:04.639
it's eleven thirty when Raw goes off
the air and you get back to
540
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:07.880
the hotel and you're just like you're
jacked on adrenaline and stuff because it's it's
541
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:13.440
fast moving and stuff changes and crap
hits the fan and you're just on edge,
542
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.840
you know. So you might not
get to bed until three o'clock,
543
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:20.239
four o'clock, get up the next
day ten o'clock, and you hit the
544
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:22.800
venue at eleven, and then you're
there until midnight again, and then maybe
545
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.639
you catch a plane, maybe it
don't. Maybe your planes at seven thirty
546
00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:29.800
in the morning, and you know, you get home long enough to wash
547
00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:31.519
your clothes and put them right back
in the suitcase. And you know,
548
00:37:31.639 --> 00:37:36.039
I don't mean to come across like
you know, this grizzled road veteran because
549
00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:38.239
I didn't do it for that long. But it's it's a it's a grueling
550
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:43.239
schedule. Well, yeah, it's
either something that you love and want to
551
00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:46.239
keep doing. But if it's something
you don't, it doesn't make any sense
552
00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:50.760
to make that your life, you
know. I mean, and and well,
553
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:54.239
as you're kind of going through this
and you say you didn't really create
554
00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:59.079
friends or developed friendships, but from
a camaraderie standpoint with the other writers,
555
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:02.079
did was the time to talk about
that aspect of things, the things that
556
00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:05.920
are going through your head, which
is is this something you guys want for
557
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:07.800
a long time. Is this a
sustainable way to live your life? Do
558
00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:12.280
you have families? Do you see
families? Or was it not really in
559
00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:15.079
that even in that six months fan
wasn't there an opportunity to get to know
560
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:20.159
other writers in that way as it
came and went. Well, Yeah,
561
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:22.519
I don't want to make it seem
like like people weren't friendly there or that
562
00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:29.800
relationships didn't blossom. What I mean
is like outside of the WWE circle for
563
00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:32.000
me anyway, there was no one. There were the people that I lived
564
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:37.280
with, but I would barely see
them. And I really really lucked out
565
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:40.960
when I came up to Stanford because
I managed to find an apartment with three
566
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:45.320
other guys, one of which who
happened to work for the company at the
567
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:47.760
time and he's still there now.
At the time, he worked in their
568
00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:51.519
dot com, you know, and
he would be on the road every once
569
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:53.719
in a while doing interviews and stuff
like that. He was working under Joey
570
00:38:53.719 --> 00:38:59.440
Styles at the time, because Styles
had taken over the dot com responsibilities and
571
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:02.480
and and he's still there. So
he would occasionally kind of like, you
572
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:06.440
know, want to know what's on
my mind and stuff, so that he
573
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:09.880
could organize his flow around what's coming
up. So like, if if you
574
00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:13.079
know, I kind of let on
that we might have a ladder match in
575
00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:15.519
the works, he could get a
bunch of ladder match clips hooked up.
576
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:19.000
So he was really passionate about his
job. But he was, you know,
577
00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:22.280
more of an office type person,
so our schedules didn't line up at
578
00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:24.639
all. You know, I might
randomly see him from time to time,
579
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:30.679
and you develop friendships with the writing
staff absolutely because you're not just talking wrestling
580
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:34.440
all the time. You're shooting the
crap about normal stuff. You know.
581
00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:37.199
All of us were like comic book
fans, so when Dark Knight came out
582
00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:40.199
that year, we were all really
pumping to see it and talk about it
583
00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:44.599
when you know, when it was
over. And ed Coski in particular was
584
00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:47.559
like had dis countdown in his office
where every day it was like pull off
585
00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:51.239
a sheet, you know, because
he was this really big Batman fan.
586
00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:53.119
I thought that was so cool,
you know that he would share that with
587
00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:57.159
us. But as far as I
remember, I mean, none of us
588
00:39:57.199 --> 00:40:00.199
really sat around talking about like,
yeah, do I want to do this
589
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:05.360
when I'm forty or you know,
man, I really wish I could settle
590
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:07.159
down. I think, like,
you know, I had those thoughts in
591
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:14.239
my head and and my work started
to reflect that, but no one really
592
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:17.440
talked openly about that because it was
almost like, you know, once you
593
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:22.400
cross that line, like you you're
you're dead to them, you know,
594
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:24.960
because clearly you're not. You haven't
bought in at that point. If if
595
00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:29.519
you have any doubt at all,
then you need to just go. Yeah,
596
00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:31.880
that's kind of my vibe from it
that that's interesting. Yeah, like
597
00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:38.280
just bringing it up, um could
mark you as somebody who was thinking about
598
00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:42.840
things that you're not supposed to think
about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
599
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:45.960
exactly, exactly. Yeah, Like
you're either you're either a roaddog and
600
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:47.800
you're in it to win it and
you're in it for life, or you're
601
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:52.800
a guy who's going to be gone
quick and you know, just based on
602
00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:54.639
some interactions, you could tell that
that happens a lot. You know,
603
00:40:54.719 --> 00:41:00.440
Like when I first got there my
first day at TV, jb L takes
604
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:04.280
out his cell phone, he takes
a picture of me, and he's like,
605
00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:06.239
you know why I'm doing that,
And I said, no, I
606
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:08.400
don't. He goes, it's so
I can remember your face when you're gone
607
00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:14.800
next month. That's very jbl Yes. Yeah, So it was just like
608
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:16.639
you could tell that there was it
was quite a revolving door, and it
609
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:21.159
wasn't just with me, you know, like looking looking at the product now
610
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:25.519
and the last six months of you
know TV now and looking at that six
611
00:41:25.559 --> 00:41:30.480
months, we introduced a lot of
talent that didn't cut it in that short
612
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:32.960
amount of time. I mean,
FCW was dumping guys out pretty quick.
613
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:37.159
They weren't spending the amount of time
there that they do in an next Now.
614
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:40.199
They were coming out and they were
still kind of raw dough. So
615
00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:45.880
there were guys that we debuted and
guys who got fired within my time span.
616
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:55.360
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into
the developmental system and ultimately the brand
617
00:41:55.440 --> 00:42:00.800
you see today. On the Torch
VIP podcast NXT eight years Back, we'll
618
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:06.960
be taking a weekly look at this
page in nxc's early history. Join Kelly
619
00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:10.719
Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT
Talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight
620
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:15.559
years back to the day to track
NXT's rising talents and why they did or
621
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:23.800
didn't work out. Exclusively for PW
Torch VIP members. Let's talk about some
622
00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:27.960
of those names who come to mind. Like the first one that comes to
623
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:30.920
mind is a Braden Walker. You
know, Yes, he came and went
624
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:36.800
in that short stint. Ricky Ortiz
kind of came and went in that time
625
00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:40.679
frame. Man, let me think
of who else was in that group.
626
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:45.079
I remember, you know, Dusty
would come in and he would tell us
627
00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:49.320
about these guys and what he thought
about them, and and you know,
628
00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:52.199
Justin Gabriel was part of the part
of that FCW group at the time.
629
00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:57.280
Jack Swagger was in that group at
the time, and they didn't necessarily debut
630
00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:01.119
in my window, but like our
True came in right around that same time
631
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:06.440
that we were there. I remember
sitting around for like a whole couple hours
632
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:09.280
on a Saturday when I was washing
my laundry trying to come up with a
633
00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:14.159
cool name for our Truth because he
didn't have one at a time. Paul
634
00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:16.599
Burchell kind of like came and win. It seems like in in my time
635
00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:22.639
frame, his Katie Lee Burchell came
and win in that time frame. Tiffany
636
00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:27.039
on ECW seems like she kind of
came and went in that time. Bam
637
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:31.000
Neeley debuted and then disappeared so a
lot of I mean, they were throwing
638
00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:34.400
a lot of different stuff at the
wall at the time, you know,
639
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:38.039
and it's just interesting to see how
it's changed now and how when they come
640
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:42.719
up from NXT, Like you know, when when Alistair Black comes up,
641
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:45.039
it's not a question of if he
makes it, like it's a question of
642
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:49.840
how long does it take him to
get to the title, whereas it's just
643
00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:52.480
not the case with these other names
I'm bringing up. I had to look
644
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:57.159
up Bam Neely. I like,
I see his picture. Now I'm a
645
00:43:57.280 --> 00:43:59.159
compete. I'm like, oh,
yeah, I kind of remember him.
646
00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:04.119
But yeah, you're right. That
was a time of introduction in turnover.
647
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:09.320
So well, let's talk about that
when you're when wrestler is introduced to the
648
00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:15.880
show that you're writing on. What
kind of direction are are you given or
649
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:21.760
structure is there to framing that wrestler
and presenting them and writing for them from
650
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:23.880
the perspective that you have in that
company, and what your role is like
651
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:27.440
when a new guy comes up,
do you get a sheet of paper with
652
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:29.519
bullet points, here's what we like, here's what we're trying to do to
653
00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:30.800
get them over. Let's write something
for him. How does that work.
654
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:37.519
The one of the only ones that
I was mainly involved in was the Braden
655
00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:42.920
Walker deal, and he came in
to the writing room and sat down with
656
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:45.840
us and we basically just kind of
all pitch things back and forth. You
657
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:50.199
know, who are you? What's
your name? Uh? You know,
658
00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:52.760
what do you do? You know
who? You know? What's your motivation?
659
00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:57.519
Okay, so you're kind of this
like lone guy that just sort of
660
00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:00.880
walks through life. And you know, so in that regard, we're all
661
00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:05.639
pretty much on board with you know
what the what the voice is supposed to
662
00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:09.639
be, and um, you know
what what his motivations are. And a
663
00:45:09.639 --> 00:45:13.920
guy like Ricky Ortiz would be more
like, okay, this is you know,
664
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:17.840
a party guy throws out these towels, um, And that was you
665
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:22.559
know, it's pretty much it for
Ricky Ortiz, and a lot of these
666
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:25.400
guys really didn't get to talk a
whole lot. So you basically just you
667
00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:30.000
you worked, you worked your creative
off of what you'd seen so far.
668
00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:35.639
Um. I can't remember a time
where anybody said like, Okay, Paul
669
00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:39.119
Burchell, is this, this and
this so right? It was kind of
670
00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:44.159
like it was more along the lines
of Hey, we have to get to
671
00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:50.320
hear, we have to get to
Burchell versus um Bryan Hendricks. So you
672
00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:52.719
got three weeks give me your best. And that was how the how the
673
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:58.159
process worked. We didn't really touch
on it before, but at least when
674
00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:02.320
I was there. We would all
the whole show as though we were Brian
675
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:07.679
or we were ED, and we
would turn those into Brian or Ed as
676
00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:10.719
our segments, and we would pitch
the whole shows open. Is it a
677
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:14.800
cold? Open? Is there a
graphic? What happens? Who comes out?
678
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:17.760
Does their music interrupt? You know? When you say we would write
679
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:21.519
the whole show, I mean each
writer wrote a separate show, or collectively,
680
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:23.440
you guys got together and wrote a
whole show to present. Yeah,
681
00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:29.480
So each writer would write their own
version of next week's Raw or next week's
682
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:31.760
back down, and then we would
turn that in. So I had eleven
683
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:37.599
segments because Raw was you know,
two hours at the time. I don't
684
00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:43.519
wish the thing upon anybody, yea. So we would turn that in and
685
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:45.880
it would be like, Okay,
you know, here's how I established my
686
00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:49.880
main event in segment one, and
then here's what we're doing in the crossover
687
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:52.559
it's going to be a Scena promo. He's gonna say A B and C.
688
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:58.960
And then here's the main event,
here's the finish. I mean yeah,
689
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:04.480
really just booking it out completely as
though we were we were the booker
690
00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:08.239
who comes out, who says what
you know, the swerves, all of
691
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:14.840
that, and then Brian would work
with all of our material and kind of
692
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:20.000
Frankenstein something together with his own ideas
and his own agendas that he knew that
693
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:22.719
he had to push and with guys
that he knew that he had to get
694
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:27.039
hot for certain stuff that we might
not be privy to at the time.
695
00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:30.880
I mean, it was it was
all very open. There was never any
696
00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:34.559
time where something happened and I was
like, oh wow, yeah, I
697
00:47:34.599 --> 00:47:37.199
feel like I was left in the
dark about that. We all knew.
698
00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:40.840
I mean with aside from like what
was what happened in the draft, we
699
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:46.360
all learned about a lot of that
stuff the day of especially JR. Who
700
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:50.079
you know, he didn't he was
that's a shoot and he did not know
701
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:54.320
that he was going to smack down
the triple h did. So there was
702
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:59.519
there was never anything like that where
it was like I would write something and
703
00:47:59.559 --> 00:48:00.960
they would say no, no,
no, no, okay, don't do
704
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:05.039
that because he's not going to be
here in six months or anything like that.
705
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:09.840
Yeah, we were all encouraged to
pitch in ways that were exciting,
706
00:48:10.119 --> 00:48:15.199
and you know, slightly like I
would. I would take that opportunity to
707
00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:17.159
pitch stuff that that made sense.
But I also knew that I was kind
708
00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:22.280
of an outlier, so I would
take some chances here and there with stuff
709
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:25.320
that you know, might be a
little bit past the envelope, not so
710
00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:30.079
much in like a PG. Thirteen
setting, but just like, well that's
711
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:32.760
kind of a zany story. You
know, maybe maybe they won't buy that,
712
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:36.840
but if they do, then I'll
know it's mine, you know.
713
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:39.400
So that was kind of a neat
part about that is that everybody had kind
714
00:48:39.400 --> 00:48:43.639
of an equal voice, at least
until you turned in your paper, you
715
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:45.440
know, to the teacher at the
end of the day, and then the
716
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:49.320
raw script comes out and you see
if anything that you wrote and made it.
717
00:48:55.440 --> 00:49:00.559
Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you
want to learn some rest in history,
718
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:05.440
don't miss the Nineties pass cast every
Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast
719
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:09.519
Feed. Alex and Patrick will transport
you thirty years into the past by taking
720
00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:15.119
you through the Torch issue from that
very week, follow news from the WWF
721
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:19.840
and WCW and all the happenings from
across the wrestling industry in real time as
722
00:49:19.880 --> 00:49:23.639
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties. Passcasts every Friday
723
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:43.480
on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. What was your perception or idea of
724
00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:50.079
how WWBTV got written before you got
there and how much did the process in
725
00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:54.280
reality differ from that. I assume
that the writing team was a lot smaller
726
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:58.760
than I thought. You're going to
say smarter and I was like, wow,
727
00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:01.960
that's a day. He drew off
the SUMA and I was like,
728
00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:05.880
wow, where are we going here? Hi? Good? No, No.
729
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:08.559
I really assumed that it would be
more like, you know, four
730
00:50:08.679 --> 00:50:14.039
or five guys, Vince and a
couple of dudes who you know got the
731
00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:15.639
coffee and made the copies. And
I was going to be the coffee copy
732
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:19.639
guy. Um, that was what
I thought. You know. I got
733
00:50:19.639 --> 00:50:22.960
there and it was more like a
team of geez fifteen sixteen something like that.
734
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:25.920
I mean, there were there were
a lot of us um, and
735
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:30.360
then we added onto the team as
we win when they brought in they brought
736
00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:36.840
in Freddie Prince and uh, Freddie's
friend was that what he's known as No,
737
00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:38.880
Okay, he had a he had
a name and I can't remember it
738
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:44.199
right now because he just told us
that he goes by Bonds or Base something
739
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:46.360
like that, so that was that
was just his name, but it was
740
00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:51.559
don't get me wrong, Like the
guy definitely got the job because he knew
741
00:50:51.559 --> 00:50:53.760
Freddie. But he absolutely pulled his
weight. And I think a lot of
742
00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:58.320
us expected that he would just kind
of be there to be that fan and
743
00:50:58.599 --> 00:51:01.880
and really kind of just be starstruck. But he absolutely Both of those guys
744
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:06.519
worked their asses off and really pulled
their own weight contributed a lot of really
745
00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:08.880
good ideas. But I never dreamed
that, you know, the writing team
746
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:13.400
would be twenty people, you know, contributing to this, and that each
747
00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:16.840
each one of the head writers would
have to sift through seven or eight,
748
00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:22.800
you know, like twelve page versions
of raw and and try to pick out
749
00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:28.960
stuff that's good so that we all
feel creatively justified and encouraged and patted on
750
00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:31.960
the back, which is uh,
you know, I guess not all of
751
00:51:32.039 --> 00:51:36.760
us needed that. Some of us
did, some of us didn't. But
752
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:38.639
it's it's a it's a task,
you know, to kind of sift through
753
00:51:38.679 --> 00:51:40.960
all of that and try to keep
it straight in your head, but then
754
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.159
also remember what you've got cooking on
the back burner in your own mind as
755
00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:47.639
far as where you need to be, and you know, what's what's the
756
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:53.679
main event of WrestleMania twenty five and
how do we keep from destroying that in
757
00:51:53.840 --> 00:51:58.440
these twelve months because like the day
one, I get there and there's you
758
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:02.199
know, everybody's laid out there Solomania
twenty five, dream cards and top main
759
00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:07.440
event on everybody's seen a Batista,
you know, and then it's like we
760
00:52:07.480 --> 00:52:10.360
get to Great American Bash and people
are talking about, let's do Scena Batista.
761
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:15.599
It actually ended up happening in Summers
Slam. It's just like like I
762
00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:17.320
was like, well, wait,
we can't do that. That's the plan,
763
00:52:17.559 --> 00:52:21.239
you know, that's we're doing that. And then it's like, well,
764
00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:22.760
you know the edic comes down from
the top, Well, when we
765
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:25.199
do it the second time, it'll
be for the title, so it'll be
766
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:29.320
different. And it was just like, you know, you had the you
767
00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:31.559
try to make these long term arts, but then somebody would get hurt or
768
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:37.320
something would happen and it would all
fall apart and you were just like it
769
00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:40.239
was. It was a constant kind
of like like hurry up to fall behind
770
00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:44.920
kind of thing. Well, when
you're writing the TV shows with the team,
771
00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:51.079
and this is something that traditionalists and
different types of fans have curiosity about,
772
00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:53.119
if not issues with, is how
much did you feel that you and
773
00:52:53.159 --> 00:52:58.119
the writing team were writing a TV
show because you talk about, well,
774
00:52:58.119 --> 00:53:00.679
you know, we're not just writing
a TV show too, that's self contained.
775
00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:04.719
We've got to think about the payoff
at the end, and that's different
776
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:08.800
than writing It's somewhat similar and somewhat
different than writing a weekly series, you
777
00:53:08.840 --> 00:53:12.440
know, a scripted drama or something
like that. Yes, there's a climax
778
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:15.840
to a season and that kind of
thing, so that's similar, but you're
779
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:21.440
trying to keep an eye on all
these other revenue sources and so when you
780
00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:23.039
look at it now and when you
look at it then, and if there's
781
00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:29.320
differences, explain that. Did you
see yourself collectively as wrestling bookers who had
782
00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:34.400
a TV show that helped you book
matches in promote matches, or did you
783
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:37.880
see yourself as TV writers with kind
of a perpheral eye on Oh, that's
784
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:42.679
right, we're writing a TV show, but ultimately we make money when these
785
00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:45.920
wrestlers fight each other at arenas on
weekends, and we always have to have
786
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:50.239
our eye on that pay per view. And so is there sort of drawing
787
00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:54.159
from wrestling booking history more or how
to write a TV show more? Because
788
00:53:54.199 --> 00:53:57.840
this is sports entertainment, not pro
wrestling, So that kind of makes sense
789
00:53:57.880 --> 00:54:00.639
what I'm asking. Yeah, I
think I get the question, and I'll
790
00:54:00.679 --> 00:54:07.079
try not to stumble and answering it. I always looked at it more as
791
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:12.679
as we're bookers and we're trying to
make these matches exciting, and a lot
792
00:54:12.679 --> 00:54:15.440
of the time we would have three, four, six weeks out where we
793
00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:19.280
wanted to end up. We would
work with these grids a lot. That
794
00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:23.679
would help us kind of storyboard out
things and tent pole things to remember,
795
00:54:23.719 --> 00:54:27.760
you know, where we've been,
what happened, how long ago that was.
796
00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:31.039
We would use those for our story
notes that we would put into the
797
00:54:31.159 --> 00:54:35.039
into the scripts for the commentary team
we'd have. Each match would have a
798
00:54:35.079 --> 00:54:37.800
little box, you know. This
was one of the main functions of the
799
00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:43.039
writer assistant in The scripting format was
we'd have a box on the side of
800
00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:47.000
each match and have four or five
bullet points. You know, this guy,
801
00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:52.840
you know, Matt Hardy is a
you know, two time former US
802
00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:57.079
champion or something like that. I
remember coming up with one stat one time
803
00:54:57.119 --> 00:54:59.559
where it was it was a fatal
four way going on and there were like
804
00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:04.079
fifty some odd championships all told between
the four guys, you know, and
805
00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:06.639
put that in there and JR.
Dropped that. So that was like one
806
00:55:06.639 --> 00:55:10.039
of my little oh that's my thing. But I looked at it more as
807
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:15.440
as we booked. We booked the
territory in the sense of, this is
808
00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:20.119
what we want to happen. These
are the matches that we feel are exciting.
809
00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:25.280
Now, why are they fighting or
what's what's an interesting reason that hasn't
810
00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:30.599
been done you know, maybe ever
if you're super creative or just not in
811
00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:35.639
a long time. And then you
also have to fall into certain certain confines
812
00:55:35.719 --> 00:55:38.400
of well, we can't do that
because of this, this and this or
813
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:44.239
you know they did that in WCW
back in ninety two, and so we're
814
00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:46.320
not going to do that, you
know, something along that line. So
815
00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:50.000
you might come up with a really
good idea and not realize why you like
816
00:55:50.079 --> 00:55:52.239
it so much. It's because it
already happened somewhere back in your childhood.
817
00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:57.480
Then it's it exists in your memory
bank, but it's not there. I
818
00:55:57.679 --> 00:56:01.480
never wrote with the mindset of being
a TV writer because I wasn't privy to
819
00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:07.199
those conversations on you know, we
have KFC coming on as a partner,
820
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:09.800
and we need to have we need
to you know, drop references to Chicken
821
00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:15.079
into this match, you know.
Yeah. So I would never write in
822
00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:20.320
like a like a Kane versus versus
a Chicken kind of match, because that
823
00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:23.480
wasn't where I was supposed to be. I was supposed to be focused primarily
824
00:56:23.559 --> 00:56:28.639
on you know, main event stuff, and then you would get little assignments,
825
00:56:28.679 --> 00:56:30.920
which was really cool, you know, where they would say to you,
826
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:35.559
Okay, Jason, you know,
why don't you book out the next
827
00:56:36.159 --> 00:56:39.519
two months of TV for these three
talents, or book out the next three
828
00:56:39.559 --> 00:56:44.920
months of talent for for you know, the women's division, something like that.
829
00:56:45.199 --> 00:56:47.119
And you would lay out this massive
story arc and you'd bring it to
830
00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:50.960
them and uh, you know,
maybe they like parts of it, maybe
831
00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:52.800
it helped spur them in an idea. And when I say them, I
832
00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:58.920
mean, you know the brain trust
sort of you know Brian and Dave Kapoor
833
00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:01.920
who runget Sing for those who don't
know, And he was still working as
834
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:07.559
runget Sing at the time, so
he was kind of pulling double Yeah,
835
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:12.320
exactly, call these mouthpiece and uh
and you know Bruce Pritchard's there, He's
836
00:57:12.440 --> 00:57:16.960
chiming in with his ideas and stuff, and uh, you know Michael Hayes.
837
00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:21.000
I mean it was it was a
really animated group and I mean,
838
00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:23.480
you laugh your ass off just kind
of hanging around those guys because they've seen
839
00:57:23.559 --> 00:57:29.519
so much and they're they're really really
funny, and they're not afraid to kind
840
00:57:29.519 --> 00:57:32.840
of to tell you that an idea
is good or take a dump all over
841
00:57:32.920 --> 00:57:37.159
it, you know, whichever they
feel is appropriate. And I appreciated that
842
00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:40.360
honesty. But to I mean get
back to the question in a super long
843
00:57:40.400 --> 00:57:45.800
winded format. I always looked at
at our role as the bookers who would
844
00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:49.320
say, you know, Guy A
fights Guy B because of reason, see
845
00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:52.679
here's how it ends, here's where
you go next week, and so on,
846
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.199
and that was kind of you develop
your characters through that. So you
847
00:57:55.239 --> 00:57:59.920
do have a long term arc,
and you have an idea of we want
848
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:02.760
to make this guy more sinister,
and he's going to do these things to
849
00:58:02.840 --> 00:58:07.599
become more sinisters so that we can
identify with his turn and we understand.
850
00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:12.960
Now you know that he's a he's
a true heel because he's doing these horrible
851
00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:15.519
things, but he thinks he's right
because of this stuff that happened two months
852
00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:20.360
ago. And when you can pay
that stuff off as a storyteller, you
853
00:58:20.480 --> 00:58:23.559
feel great. But I never thought
of myself as like, I'm writing episodes
854
00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:27.920
of you know, Lost or whatever, and I have to get I have
855
00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:30.599
to write twelve episodes and then have
this massive payoff. I mean, the
856
00:58:30.639 --> 00:58:35.199
payoff is always the pay per view, but that's not the end in the
857
00:58:35.199 --> 00:58:38.480
beginning for every storyline that you're working
with. So some arcs are like kind
858
00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:45.320
of overlapping each other. Some guys
are working with multiple people that whole summer,
859
00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:47.039
you know, Edge was working mainly
with Undertaker, but he still had
860
00:58:47.039 --> 00:58:51.679
all these other little feuds on the
side, Like he had his whole arc
861
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:55.679
with Vicky Guerrero falling apart and Alicia
Fox coming in, and then at the
862
00:58:55.719 --> 00:58:59.920
same time Edge is trying to be
a spokesperson for Slim Jim and he's trying
863
00:58:59.920 --> 00:59:02.960
to get Hawkins and Rider over,
and you know, he has all these
864
00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:07.119
other things that are going on.
So in my mind, I never wrote
865
00:59:07.159 --> 00:59:09.239
it as in, you know,
where's Edge going to be in in twelve
866
00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:12.360
months? It was more like,
where is Edge going to be in a
867
00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:15.079
month? And then where is he
at after that? And where he's after
868
00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:16.920
that? And why does he care? Why is he mad? You know,
869
00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:20.079
why is he happy? Does he
want the title? Or does he
870
00:59:20.119 --> 00:59:22.559
just want to beat Undertaker? You
know, like those are questions that I
871
00:59:22.599 --> 00:59:28.039
would ask myself to try to put
myself in that character's headspace and come up
872
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:30.239
with something that I could put on
a sheet of paper and say this is
873
00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:35.519
where I want to go, versus
just having this idea that I can't communicate.
874
00:59:38.079 --> 00:59:43.159
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me Jason Powell hosts
875
00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:46.079
him to three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom
podcast. Each week, he'll hear the
876
00:59:46.119 --> 00:59:50.559
latest news and analysis for me and
my team at pro Wrestling dot Net along
877
00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:53.960
with other pro wrestling media members,
plus The Pro Wrestling Boom podcast features long
878
00:59:54.039 --> 00:59:59.199
form interviews with notable names in the
pro wrestling industry, subscribe an it team
879
00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:02.639
or Stitcher, downcast and all your
favorite secondary apps, or visit as directly
880
01:00:02.679 --> 01:00:15.400
at pwboom dot com. Once again, that's pwboom dot com. No going
881
01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:16.360
back to you said, you know, had an ideal that was done the
882
01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:22.360
w W ninety two that kind of
thing. I'm curious with you and the
883
01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:27.559
writers at all the levels of the
writing team and even Vince McMahon and Pritchard
884
01:00:27.559 --> 01:00:34.360
and Hayes. Was was history revered? Like you would find moments where you
885
01:00:34.360 --> 01:00:37.679
would be judged if you didn't know
about something that happened in the nineties or
886
01:00:37.719 --> 01:00:40.320
eighties or the seventies, or know
who a wrestler was, or in talk
887
01:00:40.360 --> 01:00:44.480
about angles, did you go,
hey, remember when Terry Funk did this
888
01:00:44.639 --> 01:00:49.840
and or Bill Watts did that and
that worked or the Minar freebirdview this,
889
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:52.079
like were there references to history and
was this a group of people who just
890
01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:57.360
had a passion or on the flip
side, was history sort of scorned?
891
01:00:57.519 --> 01:01:01.320
Like Vince doesn't like that because we're
doing something different. Wink wink or no
892
01:01:01.400 --> 01:01:04.880
wink, you know, like we're
not in that business. We're in a
893
01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:07.400
new business and we're doing this because
I still think of that moment when Vince
894
01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:12.719
looked at Steve Austin on the Stone
Gold podcast on WWW Network a few years
895
01:01:12.719 --> 01:01:15.119
ago, and he just looked at
Steve and said, things are different now
896
01:01:15.119 --> 01:01:17.719
than when you were there. We're
doing sports entertainment. We're a publicly traded
897
01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:22.880
company. And there is that feeling
like that Vince creates maybe almost an artificial,
898
01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:29.440
unnecessary distance from the legacy and history
of his industry, at least selectively,
899
01:01:29.480 --> 01:01:32.760
not on Hall of Fame Weekend but
otherwise. So talk about that as
900
01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:37.199
somebody who knew wrestling, how much
did the other staff no wrestling? And
901
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:42.480
talk about it. I feel like
a lot of that was more sort of
902
01:01:42.519 --> 01:01:46.119
a reverent nostalgia that we had for
that kind of stuff. You know,
903
01:01:46.199 --> 01:01:50.639
we would kind of pitch it.
We'd pitch stuff like, you know,
904
01:01:50.719 --> 01:01:53.039
something were to happen and you'd say, you know, kind of like hey,
905
01:01:53.079 --> 01:01:58.000
do you remember when earthquake squashed Damien
and like you remember how everybody was
906
01:01:58.039 --> 01:02:00.519
so upset about that. Yeah,
we to do something like that, you
907
01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:05.760
know, and but not that and
it was very particular that you don't,
908
01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:09.920
you know, we didn't want to
replay our greatest hits or fall back on
909
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:17.320
things like that. We would have
a list of gimmick matches and like run
910
01:02:17.400 --> 01:02:21.840
ins and all of that. How
like we would go through I remember putting
911
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:27.280
together one list one time for Brian
and it was give me the last twelve
912
01:02:28.039 --> 01:02:30.440
gosh, what was it, last
six months or something like that of how
913
01:02:30.559 --> 01:02:35.760
Raw went off the air, because
we want to do something different than what
914
01:02:35.800 --> 01:02:38.559
we've ever done in that time frame, so we would keep we'd keep like
915
01:02:38.599 --> 01:02:42.280
a table of Okay, this is
the last time we did a last man's
916
01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:45.000
standing match, this is the last
time we did a ladder match. And
917
01:02:45.039 --> 01:02:47.440
you would have certain kind of cooldown
periods between there and there, and there
918
01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:52.480
wasn't like a written rule book that
said you could only do you know,
919
01:02:52.559 --> 01:02:54.239
one first Blood match a year or
anything like that. But you would look
920
01:02:54.239 --> 01:02:58.960
back and it would seem like,
Okay, that's a cool idea, but
921
01:02:59.039 --> 01:03:00.599
then you just did one kind of
two and a half months ago or something,
922
01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:04.840
and then it's not so cool anymore
because the novelty hasn't had time to
923
01:03:04.960 --> 01:03:08.480
sort of rebuild. Yeah, I
love that, That's that's cool, But
924
01:03:08.599 --> 01:03:14.039
that was on your on the radar
and the effort was made to be creative
925
01:03:14.079 --> 01:03:17.920
and break from habits, I guess, or being in a rut or just
926
01:03:17.960 --> 01:03:22.639
bringing something back you sort of forgot
again done in a while. Yeah,
927
01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:25.039
So that was one of my very
first assignments, that Raw thing that I
928
01:03:25.079 --> 01:03:30.280
brought up to you because right right
when Brian came in that Wednesday, he
929
01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:34.360
was like, I've got an idea
for something to do next week on RAW
930
01:03:35.199 --> 01:03:37.840
or the week after on Raw,
because the first week I was there,
931
01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:40.920
that was the week that they did
King of the Ring and Regal went over
932
01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:45.960
and had this massive eight man like
basically a who's who of WW at the
933
01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:49.960
time was in this main event.
So it was that was kind of a
934
01:03:50.360 --> 01:03:52.840
one of those starstruck moments where it's
like, you know, my gosh,
935
01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:57.960
like I'm backstage, I'm watching this
match, you know, just outside of
936
01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:01.559
the gorilla position, and it's you
know, the eight biggest names in the
937
01:04:01.599 --> 01:04:04.280
business right now, you know,
just doing their thing. You know.
938
01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:06.559
It was cool. It was it
was like that was like one of those
939
01:04:06.599 --> 01:04:10.639
times like yeah, you know,
like I'm supposed to be here and this
940
01:04:10.719 --> 01:04:14.320
is good. But what he wanted
to know was how did Rock go off
941
01:04:14.320 --> 01:04:18.119
the air, because he wanted to
do this angle with Regal basically like pulling
942
01:04:18.159 --> 01:04:21.280
the plug in the production truck the
next week, and he just wanted to
943
01:04:21.320 --> 01:04:24.760
know, like, when's the last
time we went off the air without a
944
01:04:24.920 --> 01:04:30.400
match without you know, guy A
beats Guy B celebrates off the air,
945
01:04:30.639 --> 01:04:32.880
you know that kind of thing,
and ended up being one of the more
946
01:04:32.920 --> 01:04:36.199
memorable moments, I mean for a
lot of people in that time frame.
947
01:04:36.239 --> 01:04:40.079
You go back, like the message
boards and people still kind of talk about
948
01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:42.679
it. You remember that time that
Regal went to the truck and he like
949
01:04:43.239 --> 01:04:45.559
choked the director and pulled the plug
out, and the showing off the air.
950
01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:48.639
It's like, yeah, I do
that's that's kind of cool. So
951
01:04:48.679 --> 01:04:53.280
that was one of those things where
it was like there was always there was
952
01:04:53.320 --> 01:04:58.119
always an emphasis on doing something new
or spending something in a new way,
953
01:04:59.159 --> 01:05:03.239
but behind the scenes, there was
an absolute reverence for Yeah, that guy
954
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:06.519
right there, that guy's a little
bit Rick Rude, He's a little bit
955
01:05:06.599 --> 01:05:10.920
Jake the snake, you know,
and you kind of describe him to other
956
01:05:10.960 --> 01:05:14.239
people in that way so that they
could instantly kind of cling on to what
957
01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:16.639
you were, you know, where
you wanted to go with that character.
958
01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:20.000
Yeah, Dean Ever, a little
Brian Pillman, a little Ronnie Piper,
959
01:05:20.360 --> 01:05:25.119
you know like that, Yeah,
exactly, exactly, Yeah, trying to
960
01:05:25.119 --> 01:05:28.320
figure out what somebody is and what
we should go with them and what they
961
01:05:28.320 --> 01:05:31.159
remind you of. Yeah, because
we all know like how those guys made
962
01:05:31.239 --> 01:05:34.079
us feel, you know, and
we were all familiar with the character.
963
01:05:34.199 --> 01:05:38.440
It's like required reading, you know. But there was never a time that
964
01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:42.039
I encountered somebody and they were like, oh, you know you you never
965
01:05:42.119 --> 01:05:47.760
saw you never saw Jared or Gerald
Brisco you know, tap out the iron
966
01:05:47.800 --> 01:05:51.000
sheet or whatever, you know,
like there was there was never anything like
967
01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:54.360
that. If you knew about it, you could find the right circle and
968
01:05:54.400 --> 01:05:56.880
you could you could talk about it
and have a good time because it was
969
01:05:56.920 --> 01:06:00.320
always time for that. But it
wasn't you know, no one ever looked
970
01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:03.039
down on you. Because as long
as you knew the current product and you
971
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:08.519
had a good understanding of what was
going on, where where we've been in
972
01:06:08.559 --> 01:06:12.599
a broad sense, and where we're
going in a broad sense, there was
973
01:06:12.639 --> 01:06:15.719
never any disrespect that I saw from
anything like that. All Right, believe
974
01:06:15.719 --> 01:06:18.400
it or not, we're just getting
started. So there's a whole other hour
975
01:06:18.440 --> 01:06:23.440
of this in part two next week, so join us next week here I
976
01:06:23.519 --> 01:06:27.880
Podcast one for the next edition of
Interview Friday of the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling
977
01:06:27.880 --> 01:06:32.079
Podcast, and coming up as this
conversation with x WWE creative team member Jason
978
01:06:32.159 --> 01:06:35.920
Allen continues next week, we're going
to talk about Vince McMahon. We're gonna
979
01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:40.199
talk about why he didn't stay you
know what, what did not work out,
980
01:06:40.199 --> 01:06:43.559
why did he only stay with WWE
for six months, and the circumstances
981
01:06:43.599 --> 01:06:46.000
of his departure. We'll talk about
some of his favorite memories, working with
982
01:06:46.039 --> 01:06:49.760
some wrestlers who were fun to work
with and others who weren't. We'll talk
983
01:06:49.760 --> 01:06:55.920
about his thoughts on John Cena and
some fascinating details on the reaction to John
984
01:06:55.920 --> 01:07:00.239
Cena writing poopy on JBL's limousine.
Also a story about the horn on the
985
01:07:00.239 --> 01:07:03.039
limousine that'll have you shaking your head
a little bit. Certainly Jason was and
986
01:07:03.400 --> 01:07:08.079
much more is It's It's a lot
of fun topics yet to get to,
987
01:07:08.400 --> 01:07:12.000
so be sure to tune in next
week as Jason Allen and I continue our
988
01:07:12.039 --> 01:07:15.519
conversation about his time in WWE.
I'll also ask him about what jumps out
989
01:07:15.519 --> 01:07:18.920
to him when he watches a product
now ten years later, what seems different,
990
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:24.000
what surprised him about where WWWE has
gone in the last ten years,
991
01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:28.280
and much more. We also have
our Thursday Flightship here at podcast one drivers
992
01:07:28.280 --> 01:07:30.960
only, and that'll do it for
me for today. So follow me on
993
01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:33.840
social media at the Wade Keller that's
at the Wade Keller and follow our brand
994
01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:39.920
at PW torch. Set your alarm
on Twitter click that little bell to get
995
01:07:39.920 --> 01:07:44.000
alerts on the at PW torch account
and you'll know when we post the new
996
01:07:44.039 --> 01:07:46.800
audio show and when we post new
articles. And then on Facebook you can
997
01:07:46.840 --> 01:07:51.840
friend me at Facebook dot com slash
Wade Keller Torch and you can like our
998
01:07:51.840 --> 01:07:58.320
brand on Facebook at Facebook dot com
slash p W Torch. Don't forget if
999
01:07:58.320 --> 01:08:00.280
you have a question about Raw or
SmackDown, or just a comment you want
1000
01:08:00.360 --> 01:08:02.760
us to read on the air following
Ron SmackDown, or if you have a
1001
01:08:02.840 --> 01:08:08.000
question for the Thursday Flagship, be
sure to get those questions in by midday
1002
01:08:08.039 --> 01:08:13.239
Wednesday because we usually record after that. It is Wade Keller Podcast at pewtorch
1003
01:08:13.320 --> 01:08:18.359
dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcast
at peakwtorch dot com and if you attend
1004
01:08:18.359 --> 01:08:21.640
a live event this weekend or anytime
in the future, please send us results
1005
01:08:21.680 --> 01:08:27.319
of the show. Type up a
report and send it into pwtorch at peakwtorch
1006
01:08:27.399 --> 01:08:31.239
dot com. Just list the state
in the city, approximate attendance. Helpful
1007
01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:34.079
was a building gives your best shot
at that and then number the matches and
1008
01:08:34.079 --> 01:08:36.359
tell us who pee who and how
and what you thought of the match and
1009
01:08:36.399 --> 01:08:42.680
how the crowd reacted. You can
find the format examples at petwtorch dot com.
1010
01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:45.359
Just click on the results category tab
to look at the format if you're
1011
01:08:45.359 --> 01:08:47.800
curious and want to follow along on
that. But if you do attend a
1012
01:08:47.840 --> 01:08:51.439
live event, help us tell everybody
else about your experience and what's going on
1013
01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:57.039
at non televised events for WWE and
otherwise. It applies to ROH, PWG,
1014
01:08:57.479 --> 01:09:00.279
European nd shows, everything, any
progressing event. We want to hear
1015
01:09:00.319 --> 01:09:03.840
from you, and we'll publish the
results on the website and use that information
1016
01:09:03.880 --> 01:09:09.039
to make us a little more informed
when we talk about the product and WWWE
1017
01:09:09.319 --> 01:09:13.920
and all of pro wrestling here on
the Weight Keller Progressing Podcast. So that
1018
01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:16.600
is your assignment If you tend to
live events, send us results Pwtorch atpwtorch
1019
01:09:16.640 --> 01:09:19.960
dot com. If you don't attend
a live event, well check out other
1020
01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:25.600
people's reports at pwtorch dot com and
find out what's going on new updates every
1021
01:09:25.640 --> 01:09:29.279
single day at pwtorch dot com.
If you want to know what the ratings
1022
01:09:29.319 --> 01:09:32.600
were for Ron SmackDown, the best
metrics to put everything in perspective are on
1023
01:09:32.640 --> 01:09:36.600
my reports that I type up covering
Ron SmackDown ratings. That's just one of
1024
01:09:36.800 --> 01:09:42.239
many many exclusive features you'll find at
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1025
01:09:42.319 --> 01:09:45.359
else. Also check out our sister
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1026
01:09:45.399 --> 01:09:54.920
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1027
01:09:55.279 --> 01:09:58.840
check out pwpodcast dot com to read
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1028
01:09:58.880 --> 01:10:01.159
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1029
01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:06.439
That's pwpodcast dot com. We're always
looking for new volunteers to help us out
1030
01:10:06.479 --> 01:10:12.119
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1031
01:10:12.119 --> 01:10:16.399
in contributing to mmatorch dot com or
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1032
01:10:16.439 --> 01:10:19.319
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1033
01:10:19.359 --> 01:10:21.760
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1034
01:10:21.920 --> 01:10:26.680
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1035
01:10:26.720 --> 01:10:30.399
back to you the email adder so
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1036
01:10:30.399 --> 01:10:33.279
Just put volunteer on the subject line
and I'll get back to you.
1037
01:10:33.520 --> 01:10:39.800
All right, Thanks everybody, and
until next time. For VT members that'll
1038
01:10:39.800 --> 01:10:43.479
be anytime and for not VD members
that'll be next week after Raw. This
1039
01:10:43.640 --> 01:10:58.960
is Weightkeller. Thank you for listening
and synops need an extra dose of positivity
1040
01:10:58.960 --> 01:11:02.680
and you're wrestling pods will come join
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1041
01:11:02.720 --> 01:11:08.840
Paradise at pot Torch vip as we
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1042
01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:12.800
focus on some of the great matches
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1043
01:11:12.920 --> 01:11:16.560
at the US, Japan, Europe
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1044
01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:20.840
wrestlings past in the Paradise too,
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1045
01:11:20.840 --> 01:11:27.319
the We love Lyger series celebrating the
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1046
01:11:27.399 --> 01:11:30.760
I was there when shows where our
guests will join me to talk about a
1047
01:11:30.800 --> 01:11:34.079
classic bout that they were in attendance
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1048
01:11:34.159 --> 01:11:41.000
expect lots of it at the Progress
Paradise. Detailed PWF Torch VIP subscription information
1049
01:11:41.239 --> 01:11:45.399
and a list of all the VIP
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1050
01:11:45.439 --> 01:11:50.760
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1051
01:11:50.800 --> 01:11:56.359
iPhone and Android devices, or you
can stream them directly from our ad free
1052
01:11:56.640 --> 01:12:11.520
VIP mobile site. See You in
the Paradise Now podcast one brings you the
1053
01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:15.239
Wave Keller Pro Wrestling podcast. It's
time for Keller's interview with one of pro
1054
01:12:15.319 --> 01:12:26.640
Wrestling's newsmakers. So Jason, big
picture in terms of your job and how
1055
01:12:26.680 --> 01:12:30.920
it evolved during your roughly six months
there. How did your duties change from
1056
01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:33.560
that the first day, the first
week, the first month as you went
1057
01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:41.159
on and was part of your decision
to leave just lifestyle or was it seeing
1058
01:12:41.199 --> 01:12:48.079
that there was a limit to your
growth because of the seniority level and certain
1059
01:12:48.119 --> 01:12:53.680
people and you didn't see a path
to be more fulfilled on the professional end
1060
01:12:53.680 --> 01:12:57.800
of thing. So kind kind of
talk about that dynamic. So the first
1061
01:12:57.920 --> 01:13:01.039
day, the first TV it was
I mean, it's hard to kind of
1062
01:13:01.079 --> 01:13:06.359
compare the last day to the first
day because it's there's just such a an
1063
01:13:06.399 --> 01:13:12.800
indoctrination kind of period where you're just
getting yourself up to that speed, you
1064
01:13:12.840 --> 01:13:15.079
know, like it's it's very much
like these guys are already on the train
1065
01:13:15.159 --> 01:13:17.760
and the trains go one hundred miles
an hour and it's whizzing by you and
1066
01:13:17.800 --> 01:13:23.039
you're going to try to grab onto
it. Um. So there's there's definitely
1067
01:13:23.079 --> 01:13:27.920
a real quick whirlwind and a fast
learning curve that this is you know,
1068
01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:30.960
this is how we do it,
this is where you need to be um.
1069
01:13:30.399 --> 01:13:34.119
But I was always encouraged, you
know, to chime in and if
1070
01:13:34.159 --> 01:13:39.239
you had an idea, like a
legit idea that you thought was good and
1071
01:13:39.279 --> 01:13:44.239
you could pitch it in a way
that you conveyed clearly what the mission is
1072
01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:46.079
and you clearly believed in it that
it was good, you could have an
1073
01:13:46.079 --> 01:13:50.199
audience with pretty much whoever you wanted. It was never a thing I never
1074
01:13:50.279 --> 01:13:54.199
felt like, oh, you're just
an assistant, so piss off. I
1075
01:13:54.319 --> 01:13:59.079
never felt like that there which is
which is encouraging because I you know,
1076
01:13:59.199 --> 01:14:00.720
I mean you've hear that out a
lot about a lot of other places and
1077
01:14:00.760 --> 01:14:03.039
a lot of other corporations. You
know, if you're kind of on the
1078
01:14:03.039 --> 01:14:06.079
bottom of the pole, people aren't
interested, you have to earn your way
1079
01:14:06.199 --> 01:14:10.199
up. So the as as it
kind of evolved, you know, I
1080
01:14:10.199 --> 01:14:14.840
got a little bit more involved in
the creative kind of process where you know,
1081
01:14:14.880 --> 01:14:16.680
they said, okay, well,
Jason's clearly not a buffoon, so
1082
01:14:17.159 --> 01:14:20.359
hey, why don't you go sit
with miss and Morrison, get their pitch
1083
01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:25.399
and you know, put it in
a in a grid format, you know,
1084
01:14:25.439 --> 01:14:28.560
a tent pole kind of format,
and bring it back so that we
1085
01:14:28.600 --> 01:14:32.560
can look at it as a group
or you know, hey, go go
1086
01:14:32.680 --> 01:14:39.159
over there and help out with the
Roddy Piper Santino backstage pretape because you know,
1087
01:14:39.199 --> 01:14:43.199
they need stuff and and uh and
that that I forgot to mention it
1088
01:14:43.239 --> 01:14:47.560
before. But like a big,
big part of the writer assistant job was
1089
01:14:47.600 --> 01:14:51.720
to get what you would call production
elements in line or magic as they called
1090
01:14:51.760 --> 01:14:56.760
it at the time, and that
was if we needed a sledgehammer under the
1091
01:14:56.800 --> 01:14:59.720
ring, I had to make sure
that it was there, if we needed
1092
01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:03.920
quote unquote Dudley tables. I needed
to make sure that they were there if
1093
01:15:03.960 --> 01:15:10.600
we needed, you know, a
Jeratron five thousand that Sean Michaels could be
1094
01:15:10.640 --> 01:15:15.319
smashed into by Chris Jericho during a
highlight reel. I'm not making it,
1095
01:15:15.399 --> 01:15:18.439
but that's ultimately my responsibility to make
sure that the gears are in motion and
1096
01:15:18.560 --> 01:15:23.520
that that stuff is happening. And
that was something that absolutely didn't happen day
1097
01:15:23.520 --> 01:15:25.680
one, because day one it's like, Okay, we don't know. Are
1098
01:15:25.680 --> 01:15:30.279
you like a fanboy, are you
gonna crap your pants when you know when
1099
01:15:30.319 --> 01:15:32.640
Beth Phoenix comes by you, or
you know, like how are you going
1100
01:15:32.720 --> 01:15:35.840
to respond? Are you going to
crumble? Are you going to flame out?
1101
01:15:36.079 --> 01:15:40.720
Are you going to excel? We
don't know yet. So the first
1102
01:15:40.840 --> 01:15:44.239
month is just kind of that like, Okay, we're doing this, We're
1103
01:15:44.279 --> 01:15:46.159
going here, follow me, do
this, don't say that you know that
1104
01:15:46.239 --> 01:15:48.840
kind of thing. And then the
second month it's kind of like okay,
1105
01:15:48.880 --> 01:15:51.600
yeah, I get it, I
know the flow, and then you start
1106
01:15:51.600 --> 01:15:56.920
picking up these other responsibilities. But
for like something like you know, JBL's
1107
01:15:56.960 --> 01:16:00.600
gonna run over Sena. There's a
lot that goes on behind the scene obviously
1108
01:16:00.680 --> 01:16:03.960
to make that happen and make that
safe, and I have to communicate that
1109
01:16:04.119 --> 01:16:08.680
to those those people that are involved
with that, but I have to do
1110
01:16:08.880 --> 01:16:14.479
so in a way that's not necessarily
you know, giving away all of the
1111
01:16:14.680 --> 01:16:20.039
story, you know, because there
was never like a massive paranoia about leaks
1112
01:16:20.079 --> 01:16:25.279
and scripts, but there were also
there was also a very keen understanding that
1113
01:16:25.399 --> 01:16:30.600
what we're doing is sensitive and we
need to remain spoiler free. So if
1114
01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:33.079
you don't need to know, you
don't get to know, you know.
1115
01:16:33.159 --> 01:16:36.439
So I would go to those magic
guys and I would get that stuff lined
1116
01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:39.800
up, and you know, so
there was a lot of stuff like that.
1117
01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:42.720
And then as they know that people
like you, you start getting sent
1118
01:16:42.840 --> 01:16:47.239
to go deliver messages or gather them. You know. So after a couple
1119
01:16:47.520 --> 01:16:50.119
months on the road, you know, like a guy like Mark Henry knows
1120
01:16:50.199 --> 01:16:54.560
who you are and he's happy to
see you. And so then they say,
1121
01:16:54.680 --> 01:16:58.159
oh, hey, we want to
do some crazy strength stuff with Mark,
1122
01:16:58.279 --> 01:17:00.680
so head on over there and ask
him how strong he is, you
1123
01:17:00.760 --> 01:17:04.079
know, something like that. So
that would be part of what I would
1124
01:17:04.119 --> 01:17:05.800
do. You know. I would
go over there and I'd say, hey,
1125
01:17:05.880 --> 01:17:11.239
Mark, so we're thinking about doing
this stuff where you've been to frying
1126
01:17:11.319 --> 01:17:13.920
pan? You know, can you
bend a frying pan? And he's like,
1127
01:17:14.199 --> 01:17:17.600
he'd say, I don't know,
go get me one. So I'd
1128
01:17:17.640 --> 01:17:20.560
go back to catering. Yeah,
right, So I'd go back to catering
1129
01:17:20.600 --> 01:17:23.720
and I'd get a frying pan and
I took it over to him and he's
1130
01:17:23.720 --> 01:17:27.600
sitting there and he's eating his lunch
and stuff, and he like rolled up
1131
01:17:27.640 --> 01:17:30.960
this frying pan like a burrito,
and it was just insane, you know,
1132
01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:32.520
because this pan is solid. It's
not a cast iron pan, but
1133
01:17:32.600 --> 01:17:36.760
it's it's a solid pan. So
like that would be something that they wouldn't
1134
01:17:36.760 --> 01:17:40.199
ask you to do day one because
if you go up to a guy like
1135
01:17:40.479 --> 01:17:43.960
any any one of those talents and
you say something like that, they don't
1136
01:17:44.039 --> 01:17:45.560
know you, they're not going to
respond in the right way. So you
1137
01:17:45.640 --> 01:17:50.960
have to kind of earn their trust
during those you know, first couple weeks
1138
01:17:51.039 --> 01:17:55.760
or months so that they know that
you're you know, you're not a stooge.
1139
01:17:55.920 --> 01:17:58.680
You're not just going back home and
calling all your friends and saying,
1140
01:17:58.720 --> 01:18:00.199
oh my god, you know,
guess Mark Henry did. It's going to
1141
01:18:00.239 --> 01:18:02.439
be so cool, You're going to
see it next week on RAW. You
1142
01:18:02.520 --> 01:18:05.359
know, like they need to know
that you're not that guy so that they
1143
01:18:05.399 --> 01:18:10.000
can start to open up to you. And that's that's the primary difference between
1144
01:18:10.119 --> 01:18:15.159
day one and you know, the
end, because you build that those relationships.
1145
01:18:15.199 --> 01:18:17.479
And I wouldn't say I was friends
with any of the talent, but
1146
01:18:17.560 --> 01:18:20.039
they knew who I was. They
knew that I respected them, they knew
1147
01:18:20.039 --> 01:18:26.199
I respected the business, and they
knew that that I had their best interests
1148
01:18:26.239 --> 01:18:29.600
in mind. That I wasn't going
to perpet, you know, intentionally bury
1149
01:18:29.720 --> 01:18:33.640
any of them or write bad stuff
for them because I wanted them to succeed
1150
01:18:33.720 --> 01:18:38.439
and I wanted to I wanted the
business to thrive because ultimately I'm a fan
1151
01:18:38.520 --> 01:18:40.600
too, you know, and I
want to see good product. I sold
1152
01:18:40.640 --> 01:18:42.720
me. Jump in here and set
the table. This is the Way Keller
1153
01:18:42.880 --> 01:18:46.640
Progressing podcast here at podcast one four, Friday, June eighth, twenty eighteen.
1154
01:18:47.159 --> 01:18:50.119
Thanks for joining me today. Thanks
for downloading the show. I appreciate
1155
01:18:50.159 --> 01:18:54.960
your support. I'm glad you're back. For part two of today's interview with
1156
01:18:55.479 --> 01:19:00.159
x WWE creative team member Jason Allen. He was with WW in two thousand
1157
01:19:00.159 --> 01:19:04.079
and eight. It's a tenth anniversary
of his time with WWE. He started
1158
01:19:04.119 --> 01:19:08.119
as an assistant writer, and last
week, in the first of three installments
1159
01:19:08.239 --> 01:19:11.600
of this interview, Jason talked about
his time in WWE, how we got
1160
01:19:11.640 --> 01:19:14.239
started, what it took to get
the job, his first impressions, and
1161
01:19:14.359 --> 01:19:16.600
more. If you miss that,
I do recommend you listen to that first,
1162
01:19:16.960 --> 01:19:19.680
and if you did listen to it, welcome back four Part two and
1163
01:19:19.840 --> 01:19:25.520
we got a lot more good stuff
to talk about and we will continue right
1164
01:19:25.560 --> 01:19:29.960
after this message from DDP Yoga.
I'm happy that DDP Yoga is back as
1165
01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:34.880
a sponsor. Now you can subscribe
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1166
01:19:34.920 --> 01:19:40.720
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That's new as of March twenty twenty two.
1167
01:19:41.119 --> 01:19:44.880
Just search pw Torch in your Apple
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1168
01:19:45.039 --> 01:19:46.640
Torch Dailycast logo show up. That's
our free show that's been around forever,
1169
01:19:47.000 --> 01:19:51.560
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1170
01:19:51.720 --> 01:19:55.079
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1171
01:19:55.079 --> 01:19:58.560
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1172
01:19:58.680 --> 01:20:02.560
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1173
01:20:02.640 --> 01:20:05.399
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1174
01:20:05.399 --> 01:20:08.800
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1175
01:20:08.840 --> 01:20:13.760
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1176
01:20:14.119 --> 01:20:16.680
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01:20:16.800 --> 01:20:20.039
check it out. That includes dozens
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1178
01:20:20.119 --> 01:20:24.680
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1179
01:20:24.760 --> 01:20:28.920
cast. All those episodes are presented
to VPP members with ads and plugs removed,
1180
01:20:29.279 --> 01:20:31.399
along with vapp exclusives like our post
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1181
01:20:31.479 --> 01:20:35.399
Keller Hotline, The Fix with Todd
and Wade, Everything with Rich and Wade,
1182
01:20:35.800 --> 01:20:42.319
and many other VAP exclusive shows.
Just search PW Torch within the Apple
1183
01:20:42.399 --> 01:20:49.479
podcast app. Okay, so now
back to Jason Allen x WWE creative team
1184
01:20:49.520 --> 01:20:54.560
member. Jason, when did you
decide this wasn't for you? Well,
1185
01:20:54.680 --> 01:20:58.680
for me, it was kind of
I would say. After that three month
1186
01:20:58.840 --> 01:21:02.479
cycle ended and they extended me,
I was really excited about that because that
1187
01:21:02.600 --> 01:21:05.479
was kind of the hurdle. You
know, people would tell you that you
1188
01:21:05.560 --> 01:21:09.039
know, if you if you could
make it past three months, then you
1189
01:21:09.119 --> 01:21:12.680
can stay pretty much as long as
you want to stay. But it was
1190
01:21:12.840 --> 01:21:15.439
getting through that sort of curve that
choose up a lot of people. And
1191
01:21:16.680 --> 01:21:20.920
so we flew out of LaGuardia a
lot, and I was sitting on the
1192
01:21:21.000 --> 01:21:26.359
plane and Foley mcfoley was not an
on air talent with us at the time,
1193
01:21:27.439 --> 01:21:30.319
but he was. He was flying
to the same place that we were.
1194
01:21:30.479 --> 01:21:33.319
And I'm sitting next to him on
the plane and I was reading a
1195
01:21:33.399 --> 01:21:39.560
book and he leans over to me
and he goes, hey, you know
1196
01:21:39.720 --> 01:21:44.199
that that author's a real big fan
of mine. And so I look over
1197
01:21:44.319 --> 01:21:45.720
at him and I say, yeah, I'm actually a really big fan of
1198
01:21:45.800 --> 01:21:51.880
yours too. I've read all your
books. And and then I basically proceeded
1199
01:21:51.960 --> 01:21:58.600
to just kind of like cry on
Foley's shoulder for about twenty minutes about just
1200
01:21:59.439 --> 01:22:02.279
the business in general. And I
mean, looking back now, it's it's
1201
01:22:02.399 --> 01:22:05.880
it's very kind of trivial, you
know, the things that were bothering me.
1202
01:22:05.920 --> 01:22:08.479
I mean, some of it I
don't want to paint it with that
1203
01:22:08.560 --> 01:22:11.840
brush, but some of it was
just like, oh, I'm not I'm
1204
01:22:11.920 --> 01:22:14.600
not you know, getting the feedback
that I need. I'm not getting told
1205
01:22:14.640 --> 01:22:17.880
if it's good or bad. It's
just I'm dumping my heart into this script
1206
01:22:17.960 --> 01:22:20.880
and I'm handing it in and no
one says anything about it. And I
1207
01:22:21.000 --> 01:22:25.279
mean, looking back at the machine, now, I understand that there wasn't
1208
01:22:25.359 --> 01:22:30.680
time to worry about my feelings in
that regard. So I get it now,
1209
01:22:30.800 --> 01:22:33.199
but I mean back then, it
was it was important to me to
1210
01:22:33.319 --> 01:22:36.760
know that that not necessarily what I
was doing was going to be on TV,
1211
01:22:38.039 --> 01:22:41.560
but what I was doing was at
least okay, and that I wasn't
1212
01:22:41.600 --> 01:22:45.279
wasting my time. So I you
know, I outlined a lot of that
1213
01:22:45.359 --> 01:22:48.319
stuff to Mick, and uh,
you know, as we're kind of wrapping
1214
01:22:48.399 --> 01:22:53.039
up the conversation, he goes,
uh, you know, look, I
1215
01:22:53.359 --> 01:22:58.199
understand what you're thinking, and I
understand where your head's at. But from
1216
01:22:58.279 --> 01:23:01.720
me to you, don't be this
open with anybody else in the company,
1217
01:23:03.159 --> 01:23:05.239
you know. And I kind of
took that to heart that, you know,
1218
01:23:05.399 --> 01:23:12.079
like you asked earlier if people would
kind of like commiserate about life on
1219
01:23:12.159 --> 01:23:15.359
the road and how it wasn't for
them, and they really didn't because of
1220
01:23:15.439 --> 01:23:17.079
that reason. And Mick kind of
opened my eyes to that a bit,
1221
01:23:17.640 --> 01:23:20.680
and I always thought that was It's
a cool little human moment that you know,
1222
01:23:20.800 --> 01:23:25.520
I had. I had the you
know, hardcore legend quote unquote sitting
1223
01:23:25.560 --> 01:23:27.600
next to me on the plane.
I could have picked his brain about anything,
1224
01:23:27.640 --> 01:23:32.279
but I selfishly talked about myself for
for for twenty minutes. And you
1225
01:23:32.359 --> 01:23:35.840
know, because everything that's been asked
to Mick, I think at that point
1226
01:23:35.880 --> 01:23:39.800
he had already answered. He's probably
tired of answering whether or not it hurt
1227
01:23:39.840 --> 01:23:42.119
when he fell off the cage,
you know, So I didn't want to
1228
01:23:42.279 --> 01:23:45.119
ask him that kind of stuff because
again I didn't want to come across as
1229
01:23:45.279 --> 01:23:47.359
like this sort of starstruck fan.
It was like, yeah, I know
1230
01:23:47.479 --> 01:23:50.960
who you are. Obviously no one
else looks like Nick Foley. I know
1231
01:23:51.039 --> 01:23:53.920
who you are. Let me tell
you a bit about who I am,
1232
01:23:54.000 --> 01:23:57.920
and you tell me if I'm wasting
my time here or if I'm if I'm
1233
01:23:57.960 --> 01:24:01.399
not right for it. And after
that conversation it was kind of clear that
1234
01:24:02.000 --> 01:24:06.399
you know, this might not be
the right fit for me. Like I
1235
01:24:06.520 --> 01:24:10.000
talked about earlier, it was like, you know, there was just a
1236
01:24:10.119 --> 01:24:15.159
real active bar scene and um,
that really wasn't my scene even then or
1237
01:24:15.640 --> 01:24:19.760
ever, and I wasn't into that. So it was just kind of like
1238
01:24:19.960 --> 01:24:25.119
my my work kind of deteriorated,
I guess, and and my my level
1239
01:24:25.159 --> 01:24:28.880
of effort went down, and I
didn't go to HR. HR came to
1240
01:24:28.960 --> 01:24:31.720
me and they called me up to
the up to the office and I sat
1241
01:24:31.760 --> 01:24:36.439
down with Brian and and uh an
HR representative and they said so, yeah,
1242
01:24:36.680 --> 01:24:41.840
today's today's gonna be your last day, and we appreciate all your contributions
1243
01:24:41.880 --> 01:24:45.239
and we wish you the best in
your future endeavors. And I was like,
1244
01:24:45.279 --> 01:24:49.680
wow, they really said that.
That's that's great. I mean,
1245
01:24:49.760 --> 01:24:54.199
it's just it. Yeah, it's
a real thing that that kids said.
1246
01:24:54.760 --> 01:24:59.680
So we're obviously if your work went
down and you're having these conversations with Mick,
1247
01:25:00.800 --> 01:25:03.880
was it Did it cross your mind
maybe this is being maybe it's being
1248
01:25:03.960 --> 01:25:08.960
noticed you know that that I don't
my heart's not in this, or they
1249
01:25:09.000 --> 01:25:13.720
don't want to invest further in me
in one of these spots if if my
1250
01:25:13.800 --> 01:25:16.039
heart's got it or my work isn't
up to where it was early on when
1251
01:25:16.079 --> 01:25:19.640
they renewed you did did you have
a sense of that, Oh for sure.
1252
01:25:19.720 --> 01:25:25.159
I mean that was the main point
of conversation with Brian was uh,
1253
01:25:25.199 --> 01:25:28.960
and he was he was extremely open
to feedback that I had, you know,
1254
01:25:29.119 --> 01:25:32.479
and um, it was like it
was clear that the job was ending
1255
01:25:32.560 --> 01:25:36.880
today regardless of what I had to
say, but there was an open form
1256
01:25:36.960 --> 01:25:40.319
for me to say it. But
yeah, I think it was. It
1257
01:25:40.439 --> 01:25:45.920
was pretty clear that, you know, I felt like maybe the quality of
1258
01:25:45.079 --> 01:25:48.920
my of the writing I was turning
in had started to slide, or you
1259
01:25:49.000 --> 01:25:53.439
know, maybe I was just not
as as jovial as I used to be
1260
01:25:53.840 --> 01:25:57.199
or something like that. So it
was it was clear, I think,
1261
01:25:57.279 --> 01:25:59.560
to the team that you know,
it was time for me to move on
1262
01:25:59.800 --> 01:26:03.640
and for me to hand that spot
to one of the fifteen people waiting in
1263
01:26:03.760 --> 01:26:09.199
line. It was it was the
position deserves somebody who's all in, and
1264
01:26:09.399 --> 01:26:12.680
at that time I was not.
So that decision was made and I was
1265
01:26:12.840 --> 01:26:15.600
one hundred percent okay with it.
I was concerned with, you know,
1266
01:26:15.680 --> 01:26:17.279
what do I do in Stanford,
Connecticut now that I don't have that,
1267
01:26:18.720 --> 01:26:24.680
But it it didn't feel like the
failure that I thought it would, if
1268
01:26:24.960 --> 01:26:28.039
that makes sense. I felt like, do you felt like I would be
1269
01:26:28.159 --> 01:26:31.000
crushed in a way, yeah,
because it was basically like, you know,
1270
01:26:31.119 --> 01:26:34.439
you had your dream, you lived
it, it wasn't for you,
1271
01:26:34.800 --> 01:26:39.520
and now you're done. And and
that felt good in that sense. I
1272
01:26:39.600 --> 01:26:44.880
mean, going up there and spending
the six months and not working out infinitely
1273
01:26:44.960 --> 01:26:47.159
feels better than me sitting here ten
years later thinking like, you know,
1274
01:26:47.520 --> 01:26:50.520
I wonder what would have happened if
I went up there for that interview.
1275
01:26:51.159 --> 01:26:56.840
You know absolutely, you know that
that that was totally worth it. And
1276
01:26:56.920 --> 01:27:00.640
I did feel relieved because I felt
like I felt like I knew, you
1277
01:27:00.720 --> 01:27:02.520
know, I mean, I guess
that's kind of the best way to put
1278
01:27:02.560 --> 01:27:04.600
it. Like I knew it wasn't
for me, and I knew it's never
1279
01:27:04.720 --> 01:27:11.239
gonna be from me, and it's
okay. Support us on Patreon starting at
1280
01:27:11.279 --> 01:27:14.520
four dollars and ninety nine cents,
get these shows, add free and bonus
1281
01:27:14.640 --> 01:27:17.960
vi IP content. That's four dollars
and ninety nine cents on Patreon, Patreon
1282
01:27:18.079 --> 01:27:25.199
dot com slash pwtrg vi ip that's
patreon dot com slash pw torch vi ip.
1283
01:27:25.680 --> 01:27:29.239
That is the quickest, cheapest and
easiest way to support us and enjoy
1284
01:27:29.359 --> 01:27:33.199
these shows with a streamlined listening experience, the Waight Keller post shows, podcasts,
1285
01:27:33.439 --> 01:27:38.920
and the PW Torch daily casts,
plus some random VIP bonus content.
1286
01:27:44.479 --> 01:27:47.600
So what We'll get a little uh
into what happened next with you, and
1287
01:27:47.640 --> 01:27:50.880
then we'll rewind and go back into
your time there. And I know there's
1288
01:27:50.880 --> 01:27:55.399
some fun anecdotes and people I want
to ask you about in moments on TV.
1289
01:27:55.479 --> 01:27:57.760
I don't want to ask you about, but what what did you do
1290
01:27:57.880 --> 01:28:00.760
next? Like, how did you
how did you adjust too? We'll call
1291
01:28:00.840 --> 01:28:08.560
it a more normal experience then what
you talk about this immersive and somewhat you
1292
01:28:08.640 --> 01:28:12.000
know, bubble isolated life of being
a writer for six months. Yeah,
1293
01:28:12.359 --> 01:28:15.119
So I just I got home and
I got in my car and I drove.
1294
01:28:16.039 --> 01:28:19.439
It was very Forrest gumpish, where
he just kind of takes off,
1295
01:28:19.560 --> 01:28:24.560
running out of nowhere and doesn't turn
around. I just got in my car
1296
01:28:24.760 --> 01:28:30.079
and I started driving toward Michigan because
I had a buddy that lived there and
1297
01:28:30.680 --> 01:28:33.039
they when I left, there was
a two week severance, and I'm like,
1298
01:28:33.119 --> 01:28:38.319
I'm gonna take those two weeks and
I'm just gonna I'm just gonna drive
1299
01:28:38.479 --> 01:28:41.520
and I'm gonna kind of get lost
in my own head for a while and
1300
01:28:41.600 --> 01:28:44.279
figure out what I want to do. Do I want to stay in Stanford?
1301
01:28:44.319 --> 01:28:46.680
Do I want to go back home? You know? If I go
1302
01:28:46.800 --> 01:28:49.560
back home, is every gonna buddy
gonna be like, oh, we knew
1303
01:28:49.600 --> 01:28:53.720
you wouldn't make it, you know? Or you know, would I get
1304
01:28:53.800 --> 01:28:57.640
sympathy from them? Would would people
tell me like I blew it? You
1305
01:28:57.720 --> 01:29:00.279
know? How would they respond?
And you know what am I going to
1306
01:29:00.359 --> 01:29:02.520
say to them? How am I
going to tell them? You know?
1307
01:29:02.560 --> 01:29:04.600
Like, how am I going to
tell my mom that? And she sent
1308
01:29:04.680 --> 01:29:08.920
me to school for this? And
I had the job, and I lost
1309
01:29:08.960 --> 01:29:12.680
it because I didn't want it,
like really, you know that that's kind
1310
01:29:12.720 --> 01:29:14.439
of you know, So I had
to I had to clear my head for
1311
01:29:14.479 --> 01:29:17.960
a while. So I drove around
for about ten days just to visit various
1312
01:29:18.000 --> 01:29:21.279
people that I knew around the country, and I went and saw my grandparents
1313
01:29:21.319 --> 01:29:25.239
for the first time in a while, and um, yeah. Then I
1314
01:29:25.319 --> 01:29:28.199
drove back up to Stanford, and
by the time I got there, it
1315
01:29:28.279 --> 01:29:30.159
was like, Okay, yeah,
I'm just gonna put my stuff in the
1316
01:29:30.199 --> 01:29:32.199
car and I'm gonna keep on driving. And I just headed back home and
1317
01:29:32.520 --> 01:29:35.279
uh, so I was what I
did. I didn't have any there was
1318
01:29:35.359 --> 01:29:40.439
There was never a part of me
that was like I'm gonna go work as
1319
01:29:40.479 --> 01:29:43.800
a cashier at the corner store at
Stanford, Connecticut. There was no point
1320
01:29:43.840 --> 01:29:45.920
in doing that because I didn't know
anybody there, and the people I did
1321
01:29:46.039 --> 01:29:49.760
know are married to the WWE,
so they don't have time for me anyway.
1322
01:29:49.920 --> 01:29:55.319
Yeah, well, so, uh
what what did you end up doing?
1323
01:29:55.520 --> 01:29:59.600
And I know you've stayed a fan? Um, you're torch V if
1324
01:29:59.640 --> 01:30:02.520
you remember listen to and read our
our coverage of wrestling, and you're following
1325
01:30:02.560 --> 01:30:05.479
the industry today and I'm eager to
talk to you about what you think of
1326
01:30:05.560 --> 01:30:09.880
the changes and where things have gone
since you were there. But not everybody
1327
01:30:10.000 --> 01:30:12.880
stay as a fan. I think
most It seems like most people stay a
1328
01:30:12.960 --> 01:30:15.079
fan, but some people need a
break for a while. Like, how
1329
01:30:15.439 --> 01:30:20.840
how did you look at pro wrestling
differently having been there in terms of the
1330
01:30:20.960 --> 01:30:25.000
role that it played in your life
as an escape? Is it? Is
1331
01:30:25.000 --> 01:30:29.479
it in a different place in your
life since you left in a way,
1332
01:30:29.720 --> 01:30:31.399
yes, Um, it's kind of
like, uh, you know, I
1333
01:30:31.680 --> 01:30:34.520
kind of liken it to like Wizard
of Oz, Like once you've looked behind
1334
01:30:34.600 --> 01:30:39.319
the curtain, you can't unlook yeah, from behind the curtain. Um,
1335
01:30:39.600 --> 01:30:42.119
I mean obviously, I you know, I knew going in, or I
1336
01:30:42.199 --> 01:30:46.720
knew long long before that it was, you know, a scripted drama.
1337
01:30:48.159 --> 01:30:53.159
But I kind of look at it
more critically after the fact, Like,
1338
01:30:53.439 --> 01:30:55.880
you know, I look at a
guy like Roman and it's like, you
1339
01:30:55.960 --> 01:30:58.960
know, you could make him whatever
you want to make him, So why
1340
01:30:59.000 --> 01:31:04.439
do you continue to have him be
somebody that that is not is not connecting
1341
01:31:04.479 --> 01:31:09.119
with the fans? You know.
So I'm I think I'm extra critical in
1342
01:31:09.199 --> 01:31:14.680
a situation like that, or when
there's just really sloppy writing or really sloppy
1343
01:31:14.760 --> 01:31:18.359
booking, that kind of stuff bugs
me more than than before, whereas before
1344
01:31:18.359 --> 01:31:23.079
I would just say, oh,
that was stupid, you know, not
1345
01:31:23.239 --> 01:31:27.000
to not to say I'm proud of, you know, like the Vicky Guerrero
1346
01:31:27.399 --> 01:31:31.560
pudding match. But but you know, there's always that kind of stuff where
1347
01:31:31.560 --> 01:31:35.800
you're like, yeah, somebody pitched
this or you know, somebody thought that
1348
01:31:35.920 --> 01:31:39.800
this would be a good idea and
it's not, you know, and so
1349
01:31:40.000 --> 01:31:43.399
that aspect of it is kind of
troublesome. I really didn't take too much
1350
01:31:43.479 --> 01:31:46.359
time off because I wanted to see
I was mainly curious if the stuff that
1351
01:31:46.479 --> 01:31:49.159
we had pitched as a group,
you know, and the stuff that we
1352
01:31:49.239 --> 01:31:53.000
had planned was going to pan out
the way the way we had a planned
1353
01:31:53.039 --> 01:31:57.720
and how how much different does it
become, because like, when you're in
1354
01:31:57.840 --> 01:32:03.279
it, it's hard sometimes to remember
after what happened, what you thought should
1355
01:32:03.279 --> 01:32:08.159
have happened, because it's it's it's
kind of like like when somebody lies so
1356
01:32:08.399 --> 01:32:12.560
much that the lie becomes their reality. It's like that, like it's hard
1357
01:32:12.640 --> 01:32:15.720
to go back a year later,
you know, and say, well,
1358
01:32:15.760 --> 01:32:18.000
like, okay, this is how
WrestleMania was supposed to be and this is
1359
01:32:18.079 --> 01:32:23.199
what we ended up with. So
it's it's it's hard to look at it
1360
01:32:23.279 --> 01:32:29.000
through that lens. To kind of
use a Wade Keller verbiage there, it's
1361
01:32:29.039 --> 01:32:32.119
hard to it's hard to look through
through that lens and look back at it.
1362
01:32:32.560 --> 01:32:35.600
So it's, yeah, you can
never detach completely. But it was
1363
01:32:35.760 --> 01:32:40.119
there was never a time where I
was like soured on the business and I
1364
01:32:40.239 --> 01:32:43.000
was just like, oh screw wrestling, I'm not watching for two years.
1365
01:32:43.439 --> 01:32:45.840
I never lost my passion as a
fan, and uh, you know,
1366
01:32:46.039 --> 01:32:50.039
I still I don't watch it quite
as much on the week to week stuff.
1367
01:32:50.079 --> 01:32:53.600
I rely a lot more on the
Keller hot lines to keep me up
1368
01:32:53.640 --> 01:32:56.640
to date on Raw and SmackDown because
I can listen to those on my commute
1369
01:32:56.680 --> 01:32:59.520
to work, whereas I don't always
have three hours on a Monday night.
1370
01:33:00.039 --> 01:33:03.000
So I'm still involved, definitely.
I never missed the pay per views,
1371
01:33:03.039 --> 01:33:08.239
and I still look at it kind
of with that aspect, like I'll look
1372
01:33:08.279 --> 01:33:10.680
at it and I'll say, man, like, I feel bad for who
1373
01:33:10.760 --> 01:33:13.239
had to pitch that to that talent
because you could tell the talent's just not
1374
01:33:13.399 --> 01:33:19.000
into it. So when you watch
TV today, w WTV, when when
1375
01:33:19.039 --> 01:33:21.680
you do take time to do that
and when you have since he left over
1376
01:33:21.760 --> 01:33:29.239
ten year or almost ten years ago, do you Because I'm taught christ to
1377
01:33:29.319 --> 01:33:31.479
Joseph, we talked about earlier writer
at the time, Djat. I remember
1378
01:33:31.520 --> 01:33:34.600
interviewing him and he talks about how, you know, he's always anticipating,
1379
01:33:35.159 --> 01:33:39.439
you know, the cadence of the
show and that there's the top of the
1380
01:33:39.560 --> 01:33:42.079
hour and when are they going to
get the brakes in and oh, here's
1381
01:33:42.079 --> 01:33:44.399
a ring enter instant. Then we
go to commercial and then there's a match,
1382
01:33:44.479 --> 01:33:47.880
and it's like he sees all those
things that he would not have thought
1383
01:33:48.000 --> 01:33:51.239
that much about as a fan.
What do you see now when you do
1384
01:33:51.399 --> 01:33:58.079
watch a w w BTV show that
jumps out to you that maybe you notice
1385
01:33:58.119 --> 01:34:00.880
that even when you listen to me
recap a show, I'm not noticing or
1386
01:34:00.960 --> 01:34:03.000
that you didn't notice before you were
a fan because you were part of the
1387
01:34:03.479 --> 01:34:09.359
process of creating the shows. Um, I mean, I think I notice
1388
01:34:09.399 --> 01:34:13.960
a lot more kind of what's happening
in pre tape versus what's happening live.
1389
01:34:14.239 --> 01:34:18.720
You can you can usually tell based
on what you can hear in the audience
1390
01:34:18.920 --> 01:34:25.800
and just how kind of lively people
are. There's a certain danger that comes
1391
01:34:25.840 --> 01:34:29.800
with being what you would call live
live, and some guys thriving that and
1392
01:34:29.880 --> 01:34:32.199
some guys don't. So I pick
up on that pretty immediately if I could
1393
01:34:32.239 --> 01:34:36.760
tell if a backstage promo is live
live versus pre taped, or if it's
1394
01:34:36.800 --> 01:34:44.680
like the sixth time that they've done
that particular thing. So stuff like that.
1395
01:34:45.800 --> 01:34:51.119
Sometimes, like when when especially extraordinary
things happen, I'll kind of pick
1396
01:34:51.239 --> 01:34:55.680
up on that and how they had
to break the format because we would definitely
1397
01:34:55.800 --> 01:34:58.279
think in those terms, like you
would come in with the open and then
1398
01:34:58.279 --> 01:35:00.960
you crashed the break, and then
you come back and then you know,
1399
01:35:00.079 --> 01:35:03.560
Jericho and Regal are already in the
ring. Here's the match happening. Uh
1400
01:35:03.680 --> 01:35:06.720
you know and you don't. We
never planned it out in the in the
1401
01:35:08.680 --> 01:35:12.760
in the spots where you would say, okay, this happens outside the ring
1402
01:35:12.800 --> 01:35:14.840
and then we go to commercial.
It was just like, okay, the
1403
01:35:14.880 --> 01:35:18.640
match is going to be twelve minutes
long. Jericho goes over clean, and
1404
01:35:18.720 --> 01:35:21.560
then it's up to them and in
the road agent to come up with the
1405
01:35:21.640 --> 01:35:26.399
match. So we never I would
never think of it in terms of like,
1406
01:35:26.520 --> 01:35:30.520
oh they're late for commercial or whatever, but like just being around it
1407
01:35:30.600 --> 01:35:32.720
for so long, like when Seth
goes out and does the you know,
1408
01:35:32.800 --> 01:35:35.920
the the dive through the ropes and
like thinking, boom, commercial break.
1409
01:35:35.960 --> 01:35:40.439
You know we're going to that um
top of the hour, bottom of the
1410
01:35:40.520 --> 01:35:43.439
hour. It's always got to be
something hot, so you know, like
1411
01:35:43.560 --> 01:35:46.439
you kind of like it can sometimes
ruin things if you know that they're advertising
1412
01:35:46.520 --> 01:35:49.479
like Rowsey's gonna come out. You
know she's gonna come out either top of
1413
01:35:49.520 --> 01:35:51.920
the show, middle of the show, or end of the show and it's
1414
01:35:53.000 --> 01:35:56.439
never just like, oh, here's
Ronda Rousey at nine forty eight, you
1415
01:35:56.479 --> 01:36:00.640
know, or whatever. So that
kind of stuff can can damage the spontaneity
1416
01:36:00.680 --> 01:36:03.159
of it a little bit, I
think, But that's really kind of looking
1417
01:36:03.199 --> 01:36:09.720
at it on a micro level.
Thank you for listening to the Wade Keller
1418
01:36:09.800 --> 01:36:13.239
Pro Wrestling Podcast. Don't forget to
also subscribe to our Red Logo show,
1419
01:36:13.520 --> 01:36:16.319
the Waight Keller Pro Wrestling Post Shows, featuring our live post shows, which
1420
01:36:16.359 --> 01:36:19.800
you can download and listen to on
demand at any time, covering Raw,
1421
01:36:20.199 --> 01:36:26.000
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rotating guest co hosts, live callers and
1422
01:36:26.199 --> 01:36:30.079
emails, plus on site correspondence who
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1423
01:36:30.119 --> 01:36:32.399
building on Monday, Wednesday and Friday
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1424
01:36:32.439 --> 01:36:36.239
Post Show. Just search Wade Keller, look for the red Logo and click
1425
01:36:36.279 --> 01:36:46.079
subscribe. It's free. What would
you change about the writing process looking back
1426
01:36:46.159 --> 01:36:49.279
now at how they did things?
Is there anything in retrospect you're just like,
1427
01:36:49.680 --> 01:36:53.039
boy, that was a lot of
busy work, or that that was
1428
01:36:53.600 --> 01:36:56.840
there was a much more productive way
to get to the endpoint that they wanted.
1429
01:36:58.239 --> 01:37:01.279
Well, it's hard to say because
the rosters are so they're so big.
1430
01:37:01.399 --> 01:37:05.119
Now there's a lot of talent to
work with and kind of like how
1431
01:37:05.239 --> 01:37:10.079
I was sort of venting to Mick
about you know, I write all this
1432
01:37:10.199 --> 01:37:12.920
stuff, and I just write pages
of stuff and no one ever tells me
1433
01:37:13.000 --> 01:37:15.520
if it's good or if it's bad. You know. The talent is like
1434
01:37:15.680 --> 01:37:19.239
that a lot too. Like they
have to be sort of coached and I
1435
01:37:19.279 --> 01:37:21.880
don't want to say coddled because that's
the wrong word, but they have to
1436
01:37:21.960 --> 01:37:26.760
be encouraged and they need to know, like what's their motivation and someone has
1437
01:37:26.800 --> 01:37:30.920
to communicate that to them. So
I would love to say, like go
1438
01:37:30.079 --> 01:37:34.880
back to a smaller, more agile
writing team where it's just five or six
1439
01:37:35.000 --> 01:37:38.880
people, you know, kind of
in a room, you know, around
1440
01:37:39.359 --> 01:37:42.239
Vince's dining room table, so to
speak, you know, back in the
1441
01:37:42.319 --> 01:37:45.359
day where it was just three or
four guys and ham around some long term
1442
01:37:45.439 --> 01:37:50.600
stories. I'd really love to see
much more long term arcs. Like when
1443
01:37:50.680 --> 01:37:55.159
Sena came out and challenged Rock for
you know, a match next year at
1444
01:37:55.239 --> 01:37:58.199
Mania, it was like this is
cool, Like, how are they going
1445
01:37:58.279 --> 01:38:00.199
to keep this going? And how
are they not going to have interactions for
1446
01:38:00.319 --> 01:38:03.720
a year? And that was an
exciting challenge and something like that, like
1447
01:38:04.159 --> 01:38:08.000
I would a fan would look at
that and say like, no, like
1448
01:38:08.159 --> 01:38:13.119
wrestle now, wrestle right now,
you know, like they do all the
1449
01:38:13.239 --> 01:38:15.680
time. So for me, like
they see something like that, I was
1450
01:38:15.720 --> 01:38:18.560
like, Okay, I'm fascinated.
How do you how do you keep this
1451
01:38:18.720 --> 01:38:23.520
interesting for a year? So I
think kind of like streamlining the process,
1452
01:38:24.720 --> 01:38:28.680
But you can't. You can't maintain
credibility with the writing team and the talent
1453
01:38:28.920 --> 01:38:31.359
with less people because there's just not
enough hours in the day to go around
1454
01:38:31.399 --> 01:38:36.319
and give every single person that that
motivation or that pep talk or that one
1455
01:38:36.359 --> 01:38:40.479
on one time that they need to
really figure out who they're supposed to be.
1456
01:38:41.439 --> 01:38:45.560
So it's it's like a you have
to rob one to fund the other.
1457
01:38:45.760 --> 01:38:49.600
And I don't know that there really
is a winning formula. But from
1458
01:38:49.640 --> 01:38:53.479
what I understand, the writing team
is bigger now than it was then and
1459
01:38:53.600 --> 01:38:56.319
it's only it seems like it's only
going to continue to go that way.
1460
01:38:57.399 --> 01:39:01.720
All right, Um, the interaction
with vinsc Man, we've gotten this far
1461
01:39:01.800 --> 01:39:09.079
into it, we haven't talked much
about Vince m and Christian Harlow, you
1462
01:39:09.119 --> 01:39:12.439
know, talked about how you know
when when Vince Watson a room, you
1463
01:39:12.680 --> 01:39:15.119
you it's it's like the Godfather walk
here. I can't remember. I actually
1464
01:39:15.159 --> 01:39:17.359
can't remember the exact comparison he made, but there's a presence. Oh,
1465
01:39:17.760 --> 01:39:21.039
he said, if the force was
real, Vince McMahon would give off the
1466
01:39:21.159 --> 01:39:27.880
vibe of a fourth Talk about Vince
McMahon and your interactions with him, uh,
1467
01:39:28.119 --> 01:39:31.800
personally and also how people talked about
him when he wasn't around. What
1468
01:39:32.000 --> 01:39:36.720
what the what the view of him
as the leader was? Um, I
1469
01:39:36.800 --> 01:39:42.960
mean, my interaction with him is
gonna be pretty limited. Um I was
1470
01:39:43.039 --> 01:39:45.119
around. He would never come in
the writer's room. He would he would
1471
01:39:45.159 --> 01:39:48.199
be down in his office and uh, you know, the upper level guys
1472
01:39:48.239 --> 01:39:53.159
would go meet with him kind of
get the directive or you know, they
1473
01:39:53.199 --> 01:39:56.520
would go in. Brian would have
to go in, uh you know,
1474
01:39:56.640 --> 01:40:00.600
like on Thursday or Friday and pitch
him the show that we've as a team
1475
01:40:00.720 --> 01:40:03.800
have have built. Um and then
he would come back, you know,
1476
01:40:03.920 --> 01:40:08.720
sometimes really energetic. Sometimes he'd come
back kind of dejected, and he'd come
1477
01:40:08.760 --> 01:40:15.079
back with this Mike Adam Lee kind
of news, which you know, not
1478
01:40:15.199 --> 01:40:17.319
to not to paint Adam Lee with
a negative brush or anything. But that
1479
01:40:17.479 --> 01:40:23.640
was a challenge. Yeah, yeah, so you know he would come back
1480
01:40:23.680 --> 01:40:28.359
with that. And so I dealt
with Vince more at a distance as far
1481
01:40:28.439 --> 01:40:31.840
as you know, he is the
ultimate boss of my boss of my boss.
1482
01:40:32.680 --> 01:40:38.039
Um, my interaction with Vince was
a lot more I would say,
1483
01:40:38.159 --> 01:40:43.359
just not professional but personal. And
I'm not saying where we were buddies or
1484
01:40:43.359 --> 01:40:45.239
anything like that, but like there
were a lot of times where it was
1485
01:40:45.319 --> 01:40:49.560
my responsibility to make sure food was
delivered to his to his room, you
1486
01:40:49.600 --> 01:40:55.479
know. And one of the writer
assistant jobs me and and my uh my
1487
01:40:55.600 --> 01:40:59.600
counterpart was we had to you know, feed Vince like like got to feed
1488
01:40:59.640 --> 01:41:01.199
the bear, you know, on
a certain schedule. And he had you
1489
01:41:01.279 --> 01:41:03.720
know, I know that you like
to harp on his on his meat stuff,
1490
01:41:03.720 --> 01:41:06.439
and that's exactly what it was.
It was like we're walking like eighteen
1491
01:41:06.520 --> 01:41:11.880
ounce sirloin steak and asparagus into his
dressing room and sometimes he eats it,
1492
01:41:11.960 --> 01:41:15.159
sometimes he doesn't, but it had
to be delivered at a certain time.
1493
01:41:15.039 --> 01:41:18.840
He ate us with us. Yeah, there was asparagus on the plate from
1494
01:41:18.840 --> 01:41:24.239
time to time. Yeah, and
I don't. I'd never paid attention too
1495
01:41:24.359 --> 01:41:27.239
much. It was it was either
untouched or it was gone. This is
1496
01:41:27.279 --> 01:41:29.399
breaking news. I mean, he
ate vegetables. We didn't know this.
1497
01:41:29.520 --> 01:41:31.399
This is great. I can add
that to my list of things about Vince.
1498
01:41:31.960 --> 01:41:34.119
I just thought it was steak wraps
and ketchup. That's all I ever
1499
01:41:34.199 --> 01:41:38.399
heard about. Yeah, lots of
that too. I mean everything you hear
1500
01:41:38.439 --> 01:41:42.159
about, like the germ of phobia
and stuff that's all legit. I mean,
1501
01:41:42.720 --> 01:41:45.479
he uh, if if you if
there was like a bowl of candy
1502
01:41:45.640 --> 01:41:49.039
or a bowl of peanuts on a
table um, this was one of the
1503
01:41:49.199 --> 01:41:53.600
like the very first things that was
explained to me, Like you do not
1504
01:41:53.920 --> 01:41:58.600
stick your hand in the bowl and
eat out of your hand. What you
1505
01:41:58.720 --> 01:42:01.399
do is you pick up the bowl
and you pour it into your non bull
1506
01:42:01.439 --> 01:42:04.880
hand and then eat with your non
bull hand, and then if you go
1507
01:42:05.000 --> 01:42:09.720
back for seconds, you pour again. So like all of that stuff like
1508
01:42:09.800 --> 01:42:13.159
that's all that's all real, and
that's all legit. Um. He never
1509
01:42:13.279 --> 01:42:19.520
came across to me as as like
as a dictator or a hey, it's
1510
01:42:19.600 --> 01:42:23.319
it's it's my way, pal,
We're going to do it this way.
1511
01:42:24.520 --> 01:42:30.039
Vince would listen to anybody if they
had conviction and they wanted to pitch,
1512
01:42:30.159 --> 01:42:32.960
and that that was just really cool
about him. Now, I never had
1513
01:42:33.000 --> 01:42:39.000
the opportunity to like stand on a
soapbox and pitch him this fantastic storyline,
1514
01:42:40.239 --> 01:42:43.479
partially because we were never in the
same place for too long. It was
1515
01:42:43.600 --> 01:42:46.239
generally just walk in, you knock, walk in, dropped the plate on
1516
01:42:46.279 --> 01:42:48.560
the thing, he says thank you, you say you're welcome, then you
1517
01:42:48.720 --> 01:42:53.600
leave. But he was always polite
in that way. I don't recall anybody
1518
01:42:54.039 --> 01:42:57.239
like there was never any like,
oh, you know, the old man's
1519
01:42:57.319 --> 01:43:00.399
lost it or any kind of like
any talk like that with us. Yeah,
1520
01:43:00.640 --> 01:43:03.000
we would definitely have those. So
here's what he wants to do,
1521
01:43:03.399 --> 01:43:06.079
you know, And and here,
you know, Brian would come in and
1522
01:43:06.199 --> 01:43:12.920
lay out this this uh sort of
chicken s to make salad out of.
1523
01:43:14.880 --> 01:43:16.119
And that doesn't mean the idea was
bad. It was just like, hey,
1524
01:43:16.199 --> 01:43:19.039
this is a total curveball that we
were not expecting. Now we have
1525
01:43:19.159 --> 01:43:24.000
to adjust. Or he would tell
us, you know, like okay,
1526
01:43:24.119 --> 01:43:28.159
so yeah, this guy's going away
for suspension, so we got to work
1527
01:43:28.199 --> 01:43:31.079
around that, or so and so
was injured. You know, Orton broke
1528
01:43:31.159 --> 01:43:35.119
his collar bone with Triple H at
one of the pay per views we were
1529
01:43:35.119 --> 01:43:39.119
at, I think it was Extreme
Rules, and yeah, it was like,
1530
01:43:39.159 --> 01:43:41.159
okay, so now we have to
rewrite, we have to write Orton
1531
01:43:41.239 --> 01:43:44.039
out of all of that stuff.
So like that kind of stuff would come
1532
01:43:44.079 --> 01:43:50.319
down from Vince and I can't remember
anytime anybody kind of openly critiquing his vision
1533
01:43:50.520 --> 01:43:54.800
or where we were going. It
was kind of the mindset of, you
1534
01:43:54.880 --> 01:43:58.680
know, he's he's at the time, you know, he's sixty years old,
1535
01:43:59.119 --> 01:44:01.159
and he wants to do this McMahon
millions things, So we're going to
1536
01:44:01.239 --> 01:44:04.800
make it as interesting as we can. Oh, he wants a light rig
1537
01:44:04.880 --> 01:44:08.159
to fall on him, and he
wants to be you know, out of
1538
01:44:08.199 --> 01:44:12.520
commission. Oh okay, we'll do
that. He wants to he wants to
1539
01:44:12.560 --> 01:44:15.159
break kfabe and called Triple H Paul
when he can't feel his legs. You
1540
01:44:15.239 --> 01:44:17.680
know, Okay, who are we
to tell him that that's not right?
1541
01:44:18.000 --> 01:44:21.279
Right? So yeah, we're all
kind of along for the ride, and
1542
01:44:21.720 --> 01:44:25.119
you know, is there a madman
at the wheel? You know? Sometimes
1543
01:44:25.199 --> 01:44:29.960
Yeah, but we all regarded him
as you know, as the boss,
1544
01:44:30.039 --> 01:44:32.560
and hey, he's the guy signed
in the checks, so we're going to
1545
01:44:32.640 --> 01:44:38.920
execute his vision to the best and
the most entertaining way we can. Thanks
1546
01:44:38.960 --> 01:44:42.279
for downloading today's show. Take it
to the next level with a VIP membership.
1547
01:44:42.319 --> 01:44:45.760
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01:44:45.800 --> 01:44:49.560
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1549
01:44:50.039 --> 01:44:55.479
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1550
01:44:55.560 --> 01:44:59.239
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1551
01:44:59.279 --> 01:45:01.279
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01:45:01.439 --> 01:45:05.000
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01:45:05.039 --> 01:45:09.920
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01:45:10.039 --> 01:45:15.039
and the ad free listening experience.
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1555
01:45:19.359 --> 01:45:23.640
So let's let's talk about the Mike
Adamley thing because this fits in here.
1556
01:45:23.960 --> 01:45:29.359
UM with Brian Gowertz delivering the news
and UM, you know that Vince McMann
1557
01:45:29.479 --> 01:45:34.000
was high on Adam Lee and Brian
Gowertz knew this was maybe not going to
1558
01:45:34.079 --> 01:45:39.479
work out. UM, talk about
that a little bit more, and then
1559
01:45:39.600 --> 01:45:42.920
how that played out, because it's
it's interesting with you know, Gowertz and
1560
01:45:43.000 --> 01:45:45.319
Vince were close and tight and there's
a respect there, and yeah, here's
1561
01:45:45.319 --> 01:45:48.640
a case where yeah there's an edict
from Vince and you know, the top
1562
01:45:48.720 --> 01:45:57.399
writer it knows it's trouble. So
um, first off, what I say
1563
01:45:57.520 --> 01:46:01.119
here is just kind of my speculation. But the way Brian pitched it to
1564
01:46:01.359 --> 01:46:08.279
us, he was very kind of
mischievous about it. Like I think Brian
1565
01:46:08.439 --> 01:46:12.520
had a very different idea in my
opinion of how this Adam Lee thing was
1566
01:46:12.520 --> 01:46:15.039
going to play out in Vince.
I think Vince went into it, you
1567
01:46:15.119 --> 01:46:19.319
know, whole hog, thinking that
this was something good, Like this was
1568
01:46:19.840 --> 01:46:23.399
you know, Adam Lee was going
to be the voice of reason and you
1569
01:46:23.439 --> 01:46:28.039
know he's going to bring credibility to
the show because he's got a sports broadcasting
1570
01:46:28.119 --> 01:46:30.960
background, you know. And then
so I mean we saw how it kind
1571
01:46:30.960 --> 01:46:33.000
of worked out with the commentary.
He wasn't a natural fit and we had
1572
01:46:33.079 --> 01:46:42.520
this guy under contract. Brian comes
in and he's like, Adam Ley's going
1573
01:46:42.560 --> 01:46:46.079
to be the GM and he said
it in a way and this is like
1574
01:46:46.439 --> 01:46:50.119
a twenty second conversation ten years ago. But in my mind, the way
1575
01:46:50.199 --> 01:46:55.680
it happened was Brian came back and
he was like, Adam Ley's going to
1576
01:46:55.720 --> 01:47:00.640
be the GM let's have some fun. And the idea was never to like
1577
01:47:00.880 --> 01:47:04.439
paint him into these situations where he
looks silly. He just like kind of
1578
01:47:04.520 --> 01:47:09.800
naturally did that on his own.
But I don't think that was the idea
1579
01:47:09.880 --> 01:47:13.000
from the start. The idea from
the start was to make him a legit
1580
01:47:13.800 --> 01:47:18.079
authority figure who wasn't a heel and
run with that for a while, and
1581
01:47:18.439 --> 01:47:23.640
Adam Lee just turned into this sort
of cartoon of himself, you know,
1582
01:47:23.760 --> 01:47:27.800
to where a couple weeks in,
you know, he's he's backstage doing skits
1583
01:47:27.840 --> 01:47:31.760
with was Sina and Micky James and
jbl about Mama Juana. You know.
1584
01:47:31.920 --> 01:47:38.159
Like so he was like he was
easy to write for because you knew like
1585
01:47:38.279 --> 01:47:42.840
no matter what he touched, he'd
find a way to make it kind of
1586
01:47:42.920 --> 01:47:46.600
funny but in an unintentional way.
But he was just one of those things
1587
01:47:46.680 --> 01:47:50.159
like okay, like this is the
way we're going. And right off the
1588
01:47:50.199 --> 01:47:55.479
bat, I think Brian had different
ideas for how to kind of script him
1589
01:47:55.479 --> 01:47:58.800
and how to utilize him than what
Vince did, but it was it was
1590
01:47:58.840 --> 01:48:00.359
one of those situations where it was
like, Yeah, I'm doing what you
1591
01:48:00.439 --> 01:48:02.560
want to do, but I'm going
to kind of do it my own way.
1592
01:48:03.079 --> 01:48:08.199
And a lot of things happened in
that manner where there was an edict
1593
01:48:08.239 --> 01:48:12.560
and we got it done, but
we might have danced around a point or
1594
01:48:12.600 --> 01:48:16.199
two here or there to kind of
make it what we knew the audience needed
1595
01:48:16.239 --> 01:48:23.479
it to be while still maintaining Vince's
vision. Was as you were observing Vince's
1596
01:48:23.640 --> 01:48:29.520
vision, did the writers talked about
have talked to me about you? Hear
1597
01:48:29.560 --> 01:48:32.199
it a lot that we were writing
for an audience of one, but that
1598
01:48:32.520 --> 01:48:35.479
audience of one is Vince Woman,
and he made it to this point.
1599
01:48:35.640 --> 01:48:39.840
He's the boss. And in Vince's
mind, when you're write for him,
1600
01:48:40.079 --> 01:48:43.239
you're writing for his fan base,
you're writing for the universe to use the
1601
01:48:43.359 --> 01:48:46.760
vernacular, and there's a reason behind
why he wants things written a certain way.
1602
01:48:47.399 --> 01:48:51.039
What level of shoulder shrug was there
too, Yeah, we've got to
1603
01:48:51.039 --> 01:48:55.319
do this thing that Vince want's done, even though it's kind of quirky and
1604
01:48:55.399 --> 01:48:58.399
it's just to plea you know,
it's to entertain himself because he's again you're
1605
01:48:58.399 --> 01:49:00.600
saying he wasn't like this madman at
the wheel. But was there a sense
1606
01:49:01.479 --> 01:49:04.920
that, well, sometimes Vince just
wants something because he gets a kick out
1607
01:49:04.920 --> 01:49:09.479
of it, or was there a
thought, No, we can't second guess
1608
01:49:09.520 --> 01:49:13.439
this guy. The reason he wants
things might be reasons we don't understand.
1609
01:49:13.560 --> 01:49:15.479
But he does things genuinely because he
thinks it's best for business. It's not
1610
01:49:15.640 --> 01:49:19.399
just writing for a guy with quirky
interests to please himself, because this is
1611
01:49:19.439 --> 01:49:24.439
his whole life. I think that
there's I mean, there's bits and pieces
1612
01:49:24.479 --> 01:49:28.920
to all of that. There's a
couple of different answers. So I always
1613
01:49:29.000 --> 01:49:33.239
wrote for me, like I wrote
for what I would want to see as
1614
01:49:33.279 --> 01:49:39.479
a fan, with the very keen
mindset to you know, I know what's
1615
01:49:39.520 --> 01:49:44.720
acceptable and what's not acceptable to to
the ultimate audience of one. But I
1616
01:49:44.760 --> 01:49:48.159
would I would kind of just fantasy
book for myself and see what came out,
1617
01:49:48.239 --> 01:49:51.239
and if if it was too far
from the vision, I kind of
1618
01:49:51.279 --> 01:49:54.640
pull it back a little bit.
But like I was saying before, like
1619
01:49:55.880 --> 01:50:00.880
people weren't necessarily looking to me to
come up with these fantastical ideas on how
1620
01:50:00.960 --> 01:50:03.359
to close raw on a hot angle. You know, if I happen to
1621
01:50:03.439 --> 01:50:08.520
have that idea, then awesome,
But it wasn't my responsibility. So I
1622
01:50:08.600 --> 01:50:11.600
took more chances, I think,
with my writing than some of the other
1623
01:50:11.680 --> 01:50:15.359
guys might have. So I felt
a little bit more free, Like I
1624
01:50:15.399 --> 01:50:20.000
would pitch things that I liked myself. Like I remember going to Brian one
1625
01:50:20.039 --> 01:50:25.720
time and I was like, you
know, I noticed that Jericho puts people
1626
01:50:25.840 --> 01:50:30.640
in the walls of Jericho every match, but no one ever taps out.
1627
01:50:30.880 --> 01:50:32.880
When's the last time someone tapped out? And he's like, that's a good
1628
01:50:32.960 --> 01:50:35.560
question. Find that out. So
you know, do a little homework and
1629
01:50:35.640 --> 01:50:40.039
find out that it's been like two
years. So yeah, Kofi Kingston tapping
1630
01:50:40.079 --> 01:50:43.479
out tonight. So that kind of
stuff like you would bring that up to
1631
01:50:43.600 --> 01:50:47.000
Vince and he liked that sort of
research and that sort of fact checking because
1632
01:50:47.720 --> 01:50:50.800
you know, going back to the
previous question like do you try to do
1633
01:50:50.880 --> 01:50:56.119
you try to avoid repeating history?
A lot of that was kind of tied
1634
01:50:56.199 --> 01:50:59.520
into how you would write, and
you would know that you have to hit
1635
01:50:59.640 --> 01:51:03.399
certain beats and you know that you're
going to like you know that the end
1636
01:51:03.439 --> 01:51:11.000
goal is gonna be Jericho Michael's ladder
match for the title, Like you know
1637
01:51:11.119 --> 01:51:13.399
that, but how do you get
the title on Jericho? And then you
1638
01:51:13.520 --> 01:51:17.560
kind of work backwards, so you
have the vision from Vince and the collective
1639
01:51:17.760 --> 01:51:21.319
agreement that this is the way we
want to go, and then you're writing.
1640
01:51:23.439 --> 01:51:28.880
You're writing your own most entertaining version
of that story with really I mean,
1641
01:51:29.000 --> 01:51:33.560
not too many qualifiers or not too
many limitations on what comes out.
1642
01:51:34.640 --> 01:51:39.840
And so I never I feel like
I've floundered on this question a little bit.
1643
01:51:39.920 --> 01:51:44.399
But I never really felt like I
was writing for Vince because I never
1644
01:51:44.560 --> 01:51:48.279
really felt like Vince would be reading
my paper, like you know, my
1645
01:51:48.520 --> 01:51:54.680
script by itself in a vacuum.
So so it was like I never really
1646
01:51:54.800 --> 01:51:58.560
sweated that too much. I did
my best to fall within company lines and
1647
01:51:58.720 --> 01:52:02.279
keep what we wanted to do going. I had much more feedback from Brian
1648
01:52:02.359 --> 01:52:05.000
as far as if I was pushing
it too far one way or the other
1649
01:52:05.960 --> 01:52:12.800
and if I wasn't writing stuff that
was useful. But yeah, I mean
1650
01:52:12.880 --> 01:52:15.479
it was definitely kind of like,
well, this is where we're going,
1651
01:52:15.560 --> 01:52:16.560
let's make the best of it,
and if he shoots it, down,
1652
01:52:16.600 --> 01:52:18.720
then we'll go with Plan B,
and if he shoots that down, we'll
1653
01:52:18.720 --> 01:52:21.880
go with Plan C. And sometimes
we'd be on Plan in G or H.
1654
01:52:23.039 --> 01:52:25.640
But by the time you're there,
you don't remember what A was,
1655
01:52:25.760 --> 01:52:30.840
so it doesn't matter. With some
podcast memberships, there's a complicated system of
1656
01:52:30.960 --> 01:52:33.840
having to enter a user name and
password in advanced settings, and it works
1657
01:52:33.880 --> 01:52:38.439
on some apps but not others.
That's not the case with pw Torch v
1658
01:52:38.520 --> 01:52:42.720
IP membership. We now have a
slick setup where you're a single click away
1659
01:52:42.760 --> 01:52:46.800
when you go VIP from having your
podcast feed automatically generated on Apple podcasts.
1660
01:52:46.880 --> 01:52:50.000
All you need is an authorized VIIP
membership. As soon as you sign up
1661
01:52:50.000 --> 01:52:54.199
on our express sign up form,
which takes about a minute, you'll get
1662
01:52:54.199 --> 01:52:57.399
a link and you click on it
and it opens Apple Podcasts and subscribes,
1663
01:52:57.600 --> 01:53:01.279
no entering anything, no advanced settings. You can also subscribe on more podcast
1664
01:53:01.359 --> 01:53:05.359
apps than ever other than Apple Podcasts, including Beyond Pod and dog Catcher on
1665
01:53:05.439 --> 01:53:11.960
Android and many others on iPhones and
iOS. So v IP membership it's more
1666
01:53:12.039 --> 01:53:15.560
convenient than you realize. Get all
the benefits of vapp membership, all the
1667
01:53:15.640 --> 01:53:19.359
VP exclusive podcasts and these shows with
the ads and plugs removed with a v
1668
01:53:19.560 --> 01:53:26.079
IP membership pwtorch dot com slash go
v ip. It's quick, it's easy,
1669
01:53:26.119 --> 01:53:29.720
it's convenient, and we think it's
worth it. Pwtorch dot com slash
1670
01:53:29.920 --> 01:53:36.800
go vi ip. So let's talk
about fans millions. You brought that up,
1671
01:53:39.039 --> 01:53:41.600
what was the reaction to it,
and how do you look back on
1672
01:53:41.720 --> 01:53:45.479
it? Yeah, talk about that. I mean I when when he first
1673
01:53:45.520 --> 01:53:47.159
came in, he's like, McMahon, Vince wants to give away a million
1674
01:53:47.199 --> 01:53:54.359
dollars on raw. It was like, holy crap, really, like is
1675
01:53:54.439 --> 01:53:58.520
this like to a wrestler? Is
this like the like a like a bounty
1676
01:53:58.960 --> 01:54:01.319
on on Steve Boston or like what
what do you mean? No? No,
1677
01:54:01.439 --> 01:54:06.920
no, no. He wants people
to call in, shoot live and
1678
01:54:08.359 --> 01:54:13.600
and give away money. And it
was just like that. That's one of
1679
01:54:13.640 --> 01:54:15.880
those sort of like Vince McMahon kind
of things where you don't even bother asking
1680
01:54:16.000 --> 01:54:18.800
why. You just start thinking about, okay, well, what does the
1681
01:54:18.880 --> 01:54:23.159
podium look like? What is there
a theme song for this? You know,
1682
01:54:23.279 --> 01:54:26.800
like all of that stuff, like
you just start making it happen without
1683
01:54:26.920 --> 01:54:31.119
asking you know, why, or
or anything like that. It was crazy
1684
01:54:31.359 --> 01:54:34.159
and all of us were just scratching
our heads, but it was like,
1685
01:54:34.880 --> 01:54:39.399
Okay, you know, he wants
to do that. And back to your
1686
01:54:39.439 --> 01:54:41.920
point of you know, having different
revenue streams, you know, like he
1687
01:54:42.000 --> 01:54:45.159
might be trying to Spiker rating or
get some some mainstream media coverage or something
1688
01:54:45.199 --> 01:54:49.680
for reasons that we're totally oblivious to. But that was our job, you
1689
01:54:49.760 --> 01:54:54.039
know. Our job was to take
his vision, you know, and kind
1690
01:54:54.079 --> 01:55:00.399
of mold it into something something plausible
or something viable, and and put it
1691
01:55:00.479 --> 01:55:03.199
on TV fifty two weeks out of
the year, and that was mcman's millions.
1692
01:55:03.239 --> 01:55:09.359
And I don't I don't remember if
we had that clear outage. I
1693
01:55:09.680 --> 01:55:13.600
remember that we weren't going to get
to the million thing, the stage was
1694
01:55:13.640 --> 01:55:15.640
going to fall, but I don't
remember what exactly the payoff was going to
1695
01:55:15.720 --> 01:55:19.399
be for that, because it seems
like it never really played out the way
1696
01:55:19.439 --> 01:55:24.920
it was supposed to. If I'm
remembering back, I do remember we were
1697
01:55:24.960 --> 01:55:29.079
shooting a pre tape and there's just
random people kind of walking in the background,
1698
01:55:29.880 --> 01:55:32.279
like Batista was walking down from Gorilla
and Vince was walking with him kind
1699
01:55:32.319 --> 01:55:34.600
of you know, giving him some
notes. After the match, and we
1700
01:55:34.680 --> 01:55:39.800
were doing a pre tape in that
same hallway and one of the other writers
1701
01:55:39.920 --> 01:55:42.760
you know, had to run over
and like kind of tackle Vince because it's
1702
01:55:42.760 --> 01:55:45.800
like, hey, you're supposed to
be in the hospital, so we had
1703
01:55:45.880 --> 01:55:47.720
to we had to keep him off
camera for that. And that was like
1704
01:55:47.920 --> 01:55:53.279
right around that time with Vince gone
that like all that like crazy stuff started
1705
01:55:53.319 --> 01:55:57.800
happening backstage and lighting stuff was falling
down, and there was supposed to be
1706
01:55:57.840 --> 01:56:00.800
a payoff for that, but I
was never privy to where we were going
1707
01:56:00.880 --> 01:56:03.239
with it. It was just yes, dust chaotic on raw, so think
1708
01:56:03.279 --> 01:56:06.960
of goofy stuff that can happen,
and that was one of those, or
1709
01:56:08.159 --> 01:56:11.880
like when the fan kind of jumps
in front of Batista during his promo and
1710
01:56:11.960 --> 01:56:15.199
does the thing, and it was
just a weird time. Like with that
1711
01:56:15.319 --> 01:56:19.199
particular McMahon's millions, that was like
the only time that I felt like maybe
1712
01:56:19.319 --> 01:56:27.560
he's not all home. Yeah yeah, well, um the do do you
1713
01:56:27.680 --> 01:56:33.520
have like a craziest idea that got
pitched that ended up not happening, something
1714
01:56:33.680 --> 01:56:38.880
where somebody kind of swooped in and
said this this shouldn't happen or can't happen.
1715
01:56:39.239 --> 01:56:41.479
Or you just kind of rolled your
eyes and got talked about again when
1716
01:56:41.560 --> 01:56:45.000
something somebody brought it up. I
mean, there was a lot of stuff
1717
01:56:45.079 --> 01:56:47.920
like that, but like I was
saying, it's kind of hard to remember
1718
01:56:48.000 --> 01:56:53.319
all the cutting room floor stuff because
it's not what happened. Like I remember,
1719
01:56:54.239 --> 01:56:59.399
there was definitely a pitch in play
for sort of an incestuous thing with
1720
01:56:59.640 --> 01:57:02.560
with All Burchell and Katie Lee Burchell, and we started planning seats for that,
1721
01:57:02.720 --> 01:57:06.479
and then that fell apart pretty quick. Um, there were some very
1722
01:57:06.600 --> 01:57:14.199
vocal people about that not happening.
Um, geez, I really want to
1723
01:57:14.239 --> 01:57:17.960
think here. So one thing was
like another part of the process is like
1724
01:57:18.039 --> 01:57:23.640
there's a lot of people involved,
and sometimes things don't happen because somebody says
1725
01:57:23.680 --> 01:57:27.279
they can't happen, and then you
find out later that they totally could have
1726
01:57:27.399 --> 01:57:32.239
happened. For example, Seena's feuding
with JBL over the summer and if you
1727
01:57:32.359 --> 01:57:38.079
remember, there's a time where he
demolishes JBL's limo and uh, you know,
1728
01:57:38.199 --> 01:57:43.279
spray paints jbl is poopy on the
side, and man, man,
1729
01:57:43.479 --> 01:57:45.479
that was just that was that was
a rough time. It was back with
1730
01:57:45.640 --> 01:57:49.319
with Cena was doing his little STI
with Crime Time, and he was kind
1731
01:57:49.359 --> 01:57:55.920
of like floundering between between main event
programs, and the tone of that whole
1732
01:57:56.000 --> 01:57:59.720
thing was was just weird because it
was comical and then not comical. But
1733
01:58:00.199 --> 01:58:04.800
I remember that Brian like pitched really
hard for those those bullhorns on the front
1734
01:58:04.880 --> 01:58:09.560
of the limo to get destroyed,
you know, because those were those were
1735
01:58:09.640 --> 01:58:12.960
like very jbl like that's his thing, that's that's his logo. We're going
1736
01:58:13.000 --> 01:58:15.840
to tear those up. And uh. And then the magic guy was like,
1737
01:58:16.199 --> 01:58:18.079
oh no, no, no,
we can't, we can't tear those
1738
01:58:18.159 --> 01:58:20.960
up. We had a guy that
did the car stuff, you know for
1739
01:58:21.119 --> 01:58:24.960
backstage and things like that, and
and he's like, oh no, we
1740
01:58:24.960 --> 01:58:27.640
can't tear those up. Those are
way too expensive, way too expensive.
1741
01:58:28.119 --> 01:58:30.520
So we write it out of the
script and we never really think about it.
1742
01:58:30.560 --> 01:58:33.000
And then after the deal's over and
we've got the spray painted limo with
1743
01:58:33.079 --> 01:58:36.199
these pristine bullhorns on, it's like, man, it'd be really cool if
1744
01:58:36.199 --> 01:58:40.840
he could have just taken those off
and smashed him or you know, did
1745
01:58:40.920 --> 01:58:45.399
something like that, like when uh, like when Brock tore up the J
1746
01:58:45.520 --> 01:58:48.319
and J security car, you know, like he demolished that thing. If
1747
01:58:48.319 --> 01:58:53.239
I'm remembering, it was brock right
that tore up the Cadillac with with Jamie
1748
01:58:53.319 --> 01:58:56.640
Noble, and I think it was
him, I think so, yeah,
1749
01:58:56.960 --> 01:58:59.680
yeah, so, but like he
just like went all in on the car,
1750
01:58:59.840 --> 01:59:01.800
no worries about that, and it's
and like you you think back,
1751
01:59:01.840 --> 01:59:05.359
and you're like this, this is
the same company that that ran monster trucks
1752
01:59:05.479 --> 01:59:11.479
over Lincoln continentals and stuff like how
expensive are these bullhorns? Like are these
1753
01:59:11.560 --> 01:59:15.399
off of an endangered species or what? And then the guy's like, no,
1754
01:59:15.560 --> 01:59:17.520
man, they're really expensive. They're
like four hundred bucks, you know.
1755
01:59:17.600 --> 01:59:21.279
And it was like okay, So, so we had this grand idea,
1756
01:59:21.399 --> 01:59:26.800
this beautiful visual. Yeah, we're
gonna we're gonna demolish the visage of
1757
01:59:26.960 --> 01:59:31.319
JBL you know, we're gonna kill
his mascot basically, and we didn't over
1758
01:59:31.439 --> 01:59:35.720
four hundred dollars, Like the catering
for a breakfast cost more than that,
1759
01:59:35.840 --> 01:59:40.520
Are you kidding me? So like
something like that. That's that was an
1760
01:59:40.600 --> 01:59:44.880
idea that never made it to where
it was where it could have been because
1761
01:59:45.000 --> 01:59:46.880
somebody was like, oh no,
we can't do that, and none of
1762
01:59:47.000 --> 01:59:53.840
us ever questioned him. There was
another pitch that that that Shamus when he
1763
01:59:53.920 --> 01:59:56.680
came in, like Shamus should carry
an axe to the ring, you know,
1764
01:59:56.800 --> 01:59:58.880
kind of like the bludge and Brothers
do. Now, he should carry
1765
01:59:58.920 --> 02:00:03.319
an axe, And one of the
writing team guys was very quick to dismiss
1766
02:00:03.399 --> 02:00:05.399
that. He's like, no,
no, no, no, Shamus can't
1767
02:00:05.479 --> 02:00:10.119
have an axe because you can never
pay that off. What do you mean,
1768
02:00:10.560 --> 02:00:13.520
we can never hit anybody with it
because then they'll die, you know.
1769
02:00:13.640 --> 02:00:16.760
And so like, like you come
up with so much goofy stuff like
1770
02:00:16.920 --> 02:00:23.039
that that it's easy to forget because
like you're shooting stuff down as it's like
1771
02:00:23.520 --> 02:00:28.439
leaving the hangar. So like,
these aren't ideas that ever really have a
1772
02:00:28.560 --> 02:00:31.319
true like the ability to truly take
flight. Not anything high level, like
1773
02:00:31.439 --> 02:00:34.479
I can't say like, oh,
we had this massive plan for you know,
1774
02:00:34.560 --> 02:00:39.239
seeing it to be Vince's adopted stone
or something like that. There was
1775
02:00:39.279 --> 02:00:42.479
never anything like that in my tenure
at least that I can recall right off
1776
02:00:42.479 --> 02:00:46.399
the top of my head. Thanks
for listening to our podcast. Did you
1777
02:00:46.479 --> 02:00:51.199
know we also have a website pwtorch
dot com, daily news updates, editorials,
1778
02:00:51.560 --> 02:00:56.840
and my live TV coverage covering Row, Dynamite and SmackDown and my live
1779
02:00:56.960 --> 02:01:00.720
pay per view coverage for WWE and
a e W. Create a tab or
1780
02:01:00.760 --> 02:01:03.000
bookmark, make it a daily stop. Visit us throughout the day every day
1781
02:01:03.039 --> 02:01:12.760
to keep up on breaking news and
more. That's Pwtorch dot com. The
1782
02:01:12.880 --> 02:01:16.079
broadcaster thing was in twenty fifteen,
I did, I did confirm online Yes
1783
02:01:16.479 --> 02:01:20.720
he smashed the car like totally,
Like the car is totally yes, And
1784
02:01:21.560 --> 02:01:26.960
so you learned the question you have
to ask is expensive? How expensive?
1785
02:01:27.000 --> 02:01:30.319
Exactly? That's a good question,
exactly exactly define that, Define that because
1786
02:01:31.119 --> 02:01:35.520
a few weeks later we're crashing a
car into another limo and you know,
1787
02:01:36.000 --> 02:01:40.960
doing thousands of dollars worth the bodywork
dampage. So yeah, it's a question
1788
02:01:41.079 --> 02:01:43.960
that I wish I would have asked, because it would have really made that
1789
02:01:44.039 --> 02:01:48.720
segment a lot better than the spray
paint deal. How aware were writers that
1790
02:01:48.880 --> 02:01:54.119
you knew of to the public reaction
to what they were doing? Both UM
1791
02:01:54.319 --> 02:01:57.960
in terms of metrics like TV ratings, quarter hours that that get talked about
1792
02:01:58.399 --> 02:02:02.199
UM feedback from then, but also
the internet or I mean podcasts weren't as
1793
02:02:02.239 --> 02:02:05.439
big then, but UM in social
media one, it wasn't as big then,
1794
02:02:05.479 --> 02:02:12.119
But how how tuned in did you
sense the writers were too outside reaction
1795
02:02:12.920 --> 02:02:15.680
and really in a renter reaction all
that, Well, what kind of how
1796
02:02:15.760 --> 02:02:17.600
valuable is feedback and how do they
gauge reaction to what they wrote and did
1797
02:02:19.159 --> 02:02:23.000
We looked a lot at ratings.
We looked a lot at and Minutes by
1798
02:02:23.039 --> 02:02:27.680
Minutes would generally be there when we
got we'd have that quarterly ratings on Wednesday,
1799
02:02:27.960 --> 02:02:30.079
usually when we got back to the
office, and then we'd have minute
1800
02:02:30.079 --> 02:02:33.199
by minutes on Thursday. So you
would kind of see like, oh,
1801
02:02:33.359 --> 02:02:35.960
you know, it ticked up real
big when when Punk came out, or
1802
02:02:36.000 --> 02:02:41.279
it ticked up real or it fell
down really quickly, you know, when
1803
02:02:41.880 --> 02:02:44.840
when Mike Knox is on the screen
or something like that, and you don't
1804
02:02:44.880 --> 02:02:46.560
necessarily say like, okay, this
guy, thanks the ratings, so we
1805
02:02:46.600 --> 02:02:49.960
need to get him off the show, or we need to it just kind
1806
02:02:50.000 --> 02:02:53.039
of like, okay, we need
to script him differently, or we need
1807
02:02:53.079 --> 02:02:56.760
to position him not as a tent
pole, but as you know, something
1808
02:02:56.840 --> 02:03:00.159
that falls in between the two.
So they were extremely aware of that stuff.
1809
02:03:00.800 --> 02:03:06.600
We never, from what I can
recall, never openly discussed um like
1810
02:03:06.760 --> 02:03:13.520
PW Torch or or anything like that. I would still beat it because I
1811
02:03:13.720 --> 02:03:16.960
was curious to see, you know, kind of like what your reactions were
1812
02:03:17.039 --> 02:03:20.399
with the community's reactions were to things
that we were doing, you know,
1813
02:03:20.520 --> 02:03:24.279
like what I would be very curious, you know, because I was I
1814
02:03:24.399 --> 02:03:27.880
was reading The Torch way back before
I started there. So you know,
1815
02:03:27.960 --> 02:03:29.920
we'd go, we do a pay
per view, and I would say,
1816
02:03:30.479 --> 02:03:33.880
like, okay, you know Batista
and then and Shawn Michaels just had a
1817
02:03:33.920 --> 02:03:36.600
stretcher match. I wonder what Wade
thought, you know, and I'd go
1818
02:03:36.680 --> 02:03:40.000
and I'd I'd see it is a
two stars. Oh man, it was
1819
02:03:40.039 --> 02:03:42.600
way better than that. Four stars. Now, I wasn't that good.
1820
02:03:43.079 --> 02:03:45.960
You know. So you kind of
like you have your opinions and you're a
1821
02:03:46.000 --> 02:03:51.600
little tainted because like you you see
what those guys look like when they come
1822
02:03:51.680 --> 02:03:55.319
backstage, you know, and you
know that they went out there, and
1823
02:03:55.439 --> 02:03:58.159
you know that they gave every single
thing that they had, and maybe just
1824
02:03:58.359 --> 02:04:00.800
like the layout of the match wasn't
quite right, or the scripting wasn't right,
1825
02:04:00.920 --> 02:04:05.039
or the storyline wasn't right, and
you kind of you kind of feel
1826
02:04:05.079 --> 02:04:09.960
for them when guys, when when
people you know, out in the message
1827
02:04:10.000 --> 02:04:14.880
board land or whatever, are like
are talking about how so and so's you
1828
02:04:14.960 --> 02:04:16.880
know, not good or they've lost
their touch, or they've you know,
1829
02:04:16.960 --> 02:04:21.000
they're they're not hot anymore, and
you know, you look back and it's
1830
02:04:21.039 --> 02:04:27.600
just like you start to regard these
people as more than just as as wrestlers.
1831
02:04:27.680 --> 02:04:30.520
You look at them as people.
And I mean it's tough. It's
1832
02:04:30.600 --> 02:04:33.760
tough to watch like Undertaker, you
know, walk around backstage during my time
1833
02:04:33.800 --> 02:04:36.760
there, I mean, and this
was ten years ago, because he would
1834
02:04:36.800 --> 02:04:40.760
go out, he'd knock out this
match like like he's, you know,
1835
02:04:40.920 --> 02:04:43.359
thirty years old. And then as
soon as he gets past that curtain,
1836
02:04:43.439 --> 02:04:45.479
it's like, you know, he's
back to this sort of you know,
1837
02:04:45.680 --> 02:04:49.640
shell of himself, and and you
feel bad giving him anything less than four
1838
02:04:49.720 --> 02:04:54.760
stars in my mind, because it's
like, well, if you saw what
1839
02:04:54.920 --> 02:04:58.079
I saw, you would understand how
much it takes for him to be that
1840
02:04:58.279 --> 02:05:02.760
guy. So we were very aware, at least me and and the guys
1841
02:05:03.039 --> 02:05:05.479
on my sort of what I would
call totem, you know, me and
1842
02:05:05.560 --> 02:05:10.680
the other writer assistant, we talk
a lot about you know what what PW
1843
02:05:10.920 --> 02:05:13.920
Torch was saying, or you know, one another one of the sheets might
1844
02:05:13.960 --> 02:05:16.000
be saying at the time, and
please don't take offense to sheets. No,
1845
02:05:16.239 --> 02:05:19.359
no, no, you know,
so you know, we would talk
1846
02:05:19.359 --> 02:05:21.640
about that in our circle. But
I mean, you know, like you
1847
02:05:21.680 --> 02:05:26.359
wouldn't bring up, like, you
know, PW Torch in a broad sense
1848
02:05:26.439 --> 02:05:31.359
to guys because it's just not it's
you know, people have their opinions about
1849
02:05:31.479 --> 02:05:34.520
what you do, and um,
you're not going to shape those. So
1850
02:05:34.640 --> 02:05:41.159
it's just better to not fight an
unnecessary fight or not out guys who who
1851
02:05:41.479 --> 02:05:45.079
you know, support the Torch or
who are fans of it that too,
1852
02:05:45.399 --> 02:05:47.239
you know, so you're it's kind
of like a lose lose situation. But
1853
02:05:47.319 --> 02:05:51.439
we would absolutely look at at fan
reactions. We look at at minute by
1854
02:05:51.479 --> 02:05:57.760
minute ratings if we so, for
any show that we weren't on the road
1855
02:05:57.840 --> 02:06:00.039
for. And this happened kind of
later on in my time there, where
1856
02:06:00.039 --> 02:06:04.000
they started having a stay at home
squad and then to go to work squad.
1857
02:06:04.600 --> 02:06:06.760
When we were on the stay at
home squad, we would watch the
1858
02:06:06.840 --> 02:06:12.319
show and we would do basically like
a raw recap, you know, after
1859
02:06:12.399 --> 02:06:17.239
the show's done. And I remember
getting some heat with with somebody because we
1860
02:06:17.319 --> 02:06:21.600
were doing a show from New Orleans
and I was back in the office and
1861
02:06:21.800 --> 02:06:27.079
they went to like a Bourbon Street
shot and there was nobody there. It
1862
02:06:27.239 --> 02:06:30.520
was like total ghost town. And
I wrote in my report it was like,
1863
02:06:30.680 --> 02:06:32.039
Man, I hope that you know
all the people who would normally be
1864
02:06:32.119 --> 02:06:35.800
on Bourbon Street or at Rock because
like we picked a super dead scene to
1865
02:06:35.920 --> 02:06:41.279
shoot, you know, And and
afterward it was like, oh, hey,
1866
02:06:41.359 --> 02:06:44.680
man, you know, don't kind
of say that stuff. And that
1867
02:06:44.880 --> 02:06:47.760
was I think part of what kind
of started leading them to believe that,
1868
02:06:47.920 --> 02:06:51.039
Okay, maybe Jason's not in this, because if he was, he might
1869
02:06:51.119 --> 02:06:55.439
care a little bit more. And
that wasn't meant to be a dig like
1870
02:06:55.560 --> 02:06:58.560
at the producer or at the camera
guy or whatever. It was just my
1871
02:06:58.680 --> 02:07:00.840
observations as a and which you've told
me to do, told me to sit
1872
02:07:00.920 --> 02:07:03.960
here and be a fan. If
I'm as a fan and you're trying to
1873
02:07:04.039 --> 02:07:08.760
tell me that this is the most
happening city in America, show me something
1874
02:07:08.880 --> 02:07:12.680
that tells me this is the most
happening city in America. Yeah, So
1875
02:07:12.760 --> 02:07:16.960
small stuff like that, we give
that feedback. And we were encouraged to.
1876
02:07:17.520 --> 02:07:20.079
We went out on a house show
loop once when we were out in
1877
02:07:20.159 --> 02:07:24.119
California where we just sat in the
crowd and just soaked it in. And
1878
02:07:24.479 --> 02:07:26.880
because I mean, you know as
well as I do that a house show
1879
02:07:26.920 --> 02:07:30.560
crowd can be very different than the
TV crowd, especially today, I feel
1880
02:07:30.640 --> 02:07:33.920
like that gap has gotten much much
wider now than it used to be.
1881
02:07:34.880 --> 02:07:38.720
So there you see, like what
people are chanting, what kind of signs
1882
02:07:38.760 --> 02:07:42.840
they're bringing, and that kind of
gives you a vibe and idea of they're
1883
02:07:42.920 --> 02:07:46.399
buying into this aspect of this character. So maybe we should emphasize that they're
1884
02:07:46.439 --> 02:07:50.439
calling him this on the cards,
so maybe we should consider working that in.
1885
02:07:51.000 --> 02:07:55.640
So there was always an ear to
the ground to the fans, but
1886
02:07:55.920 --> 02:07:59.359
there was always that same like,
you know, hey, this is what
1887
02:07:59.520 --> 02:08:03.000
we're doing, and unless the wheels
absolutely fall off or some guy gets injured,
1888
02:08:03.039 --> 02:08:07.000
this is the plan. Hell or
high water, get in the boat,
1889
02:08:07.119 --> 02:08:09.880
you know, all right. So
we'll wrap up Part two and come
1890
02:08:09.920 --> 02:08:16.800
back next week with the third and
final hour of this fascinating interview with Jason
1891
02:08:16.880 --> 02:08:20.399
Ellen, who is kind enough to
share details of his experience working behind the
1892
02:08:20.479 --> 02:08:24.319
scenes in ww Either some great stuff
coming up. Be sure to check out
1893
02:08:26.039 --> 02:08:30.520
next week's program download it next Friday. But between now and then, I
1894
02:08:30.640 --> 02:08:35.079
will be hosting the Weight Keller Pro
Wrestling Podcast b W Torch b ip info
1895
02:08:35.760 --> 02:08:41.039
dot com. Thank you everybody for
your support and until next time, Wade
1896
02:08:41.119 --> 02:08:43.960
Keller encourage you get to follow me
on Twitter at the Wade Keller and our
1897
02:08:45.000 --> 02:08:48.159
brand at PW Torch, or friend
me on Facebook at Facebook dot com slash
1898
02:08:48.439 --> 02:08:54.720
Wade Keller Torch or follow our brand
on Facebook at Facebook dot com slash PW
1899
02:08:54.000 --> 02:09:09.720
torch. And until next time,
Weight Keller signing on invite you to email
1900
02:09:09.760 --> 02:09:13.720
the show with feedback or questions or
comments. That email address is Wade Keller
1901
02:09:13.840 --> 02:09:18.319
Podcast at pewtorch dot com. That's
Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com.
1902
02:09:18.520 --> 02:09:22.159
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter.
You can follow us on Twitter at PW
1903
02:09:22.399 --> 02:09:28.439
Torch and follow me at the Wade
Keller. That's at PW Torch and at
1904
02:09:28.640 --> 02:09:31.800
the Wade Keller. One way that
you can help us sustain our schedule of
1905
02:09:31.880 --> 02:09:35.319
putting out podcasts throughout the week is
by giving us a five star rating on
1906
02:09:35.439 --> 02:09:39.079
Apple Podcasts. Just go to Apple
podcast and look for our weight Keiller Prosing
1907
02:09:39.079 --> 02:09:43.720
podcast and Weight Killer Prosing post show
and give us a five star rating.
1908
02:09:43.800 --> 02:09:46.479
We hope you think we've earned that
score with our fast turnaround times and our
1909
02:09:46.560 --> 02:09:52.239
quantity and quality of wrestling analysis throughout
the week. So take a moment out
1910
02:09:52.359 --> 02:09:54.520
for us and do us favor and
give us a five star rating at Apple
1911
02:09:54.560 --> 02:09:58.600
podcast that helps us on search returns
and helps us grow, And if you
1912
02:09:58.680 --> 02:10:01.239
want, can add a few comments
about what you like about the programs in
1913
02:10:01.319 --> 02:10:09.239
the comments section. Thank you so
much. Do you remember when Hulkogan shocked
1914
02:10:09.279 --> 02:10:13.720
the world and form the New World
Order or when Stonecoat Steve Aoston passed down
1915
02:10:13.760 --> 02:10:18.920
in the Sharpshooter to break the Hitman
heart. I'm Torch contributor Frank Pettianni and
1916
02:10:18.079 --> 02:10:24.279
I reviewed these shows and many more
for my exclusive VIP podcast, Pro Wrestling
1917
02:10:24.359 --> 02:10:28.000
Than and Now. Together with a
rotating chair of co hosts, we go
1918
02:10:28.119 --> 02:10:31.079
back ten, twenty, even thirty
years, review pay per views from top
1919
02:10:31.159 --> 02:10:35.880
to bottom, talk about where the
wrestlers were at the time, and compare
1920
02:10:35.920 --> 02:10:39.960
what took place then to what is
taking place now. You get exclusive access
1921
02:10:39.039 --> 02:10:45.119
to these and other podcasts as part
of your PW torch Vip membership, which
1922
02:10:45.199 --> 02:10:50.239
is compatible with the Apple Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch dot com slash go vip
1923
02:10:50.399 --> 02:11:03.640
for details and sign up for In
twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental
1924
02:11:03.760 --> 02:11:09.079
system and ultimately the brand you've seen
today. On the Torch Vip podcast NXT
1925
02:11:09.359 --> 02:11:13.800
Eight Years Back, we'll be taking
a weekly look at this page in NXT's
1926
02:11:13.840 --> 02:11:20.039
early history. Join Kellywells and me
Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday
1927
02:11:20.119 --> 02:11:22.880
as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and
1928
02:11:22.960 --> 02:11:28.199
why they did or didn't work out, exclusively for PW Torch vip members.
1929
02:11:30.199 --> 02:11:33.399
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me. Jason Powell hosted
1930
02:11:33.479 --> 02:11:37.560
the pre weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. Each week, you'll hear the latest
1931
02:11:37.560 --> 02:11:41.800
news and analysis from me and my
team at pro wrestling dot Net along with
1932
02:11:41.880 --> 02:11:46.079
other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast features long
1933
02:11:46.199 --> 02:11:50.359
form interviews with notable names in the
pro wrestling industry. Subscribe an I team
1934
02:11:50.399 --> 02:11:54.760
at Stitcher, Downcast and all your
favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly
1935
02:11:54.840 --> 02:12:01.359
at pwboom dot com. Once again, that's pwboom dot com. Need an
1936
02:12:01.399 --> 02:12:07.399
extra dose of positivity in your wrestling
podcasts, will come join me Alan fell
1937
02:12:07.479 --> 02:12:11.359
Over in the Progress Paradise at pot
Torch VIP as we bask on the bright
1938
02:12:11.479 --> 02:12:16.680
side of wrestling and focus on some
of the great matches and shows from around
1939
02:12:16.760 --> 02:12:20.640
the world, be at the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's
1940
02:12:20.640 --> 02:12:24.279
always a place for wrestlings pasted in
the Paradise too, and we've done fun
1941
02:12:24.399 --> 02:12:30.720
historical shows such as the We love
Lyger series celebrating the glorious career of Juician
1942
02:12:30.800 --> 02:12:33.600
thunder Lighter and our I Was There
When shows where our guests will join me
1943
02:12:33.840 --> 02:12:37.720
to talk about a classic bout that
they were in attendance for. We love
1944
02:12:37.800 --> 02:12:43.760
variety and you can expect lots of
it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed pwfs
1945
02:12:43.800 --> 02:12:48.960
Torch VIP subscription information and a list
of all the VIP benefits is available at
1946
02:12:48.039 --> 02:12:54.880
pw Torch vipinfo dot com. And
yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible with
1947
02:12:54.079 --> 02:12:58.960
popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android
devices, or you can stream and direct
1948
02:13:00.079 --> 02:13:11.199
plea from our ad free VIP mobile
site. See you in the Paradise Wrestling
1949
02:13:11.279 --> 02:13:15.880
fans. Are you that person that
works in a pro wrestling reference to every
1950
02:13:15.960 --> 02:13:18.159
aspect of your life? Well?
Where are those kind of people too?
1951
02:13:18.279 --> 02:13:22.079
But we do so with mixed martial
arts. I'm Robert Valla, host host
1952
02:13:22.199 --> 02:13:28.359
of MMA Talk for pro wrestling fans
every Monday on PW Torch's daily cast lineup.
1953
02:13:28.760 --> 02:13:33.880
Not only do we cover every UFC
in Bellator events, we provide context
1954
02:13:35.000 --> 02:13:39.079
that only a wrestling fan would really
understand. I mean, we're the type
1955
02:13:39.119 --> 02:13:41.039
of people that if you ask us
about how much of a mess the middleweight
1956
02:13:41.119 --> 02:13:46.159
title situation is, we're likely to
reference WCW in the early nineties. Think
1957
02:13:46.199 --> 02:13:52.079
of us as a podcast for casual
MMA fans done by hardcore wrestling notes.
1958
02:13:52.399 --> 02:13:56.880
And you could find us by searching
Pwtorch and Apple Podcasts or any popular podcast
1959
02:13:56.000 --> 02:14:01.159
app. And we're always available on
demand atwtwards dailycast dot com, where you
1960
02:14:01.199 --> 02:14:18.479
could check out the entire lineup of
the p twmet towards daily casts. Now
1961
02:14:18.520 --> 02:14:22.359
that at summer you might be looking
for wholesome, convenient meals for sunny,
1962
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active days, Factor America's number one
ready to eat meal kit can help you
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feel up fast with flavorful and nutritious, ready to eat meals delivered straight to
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your door. You'll save time,
eat well and stay on track reaching your
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goals, and you won't be sitting
around waiting for that delivery to your front
1966
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door, or having to make a
trip to the grocery store. If you're
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too busy with summer plants to cook
but want to make sure you're eating well,
1968
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Factor is the answer. Skip that
trip to the grocery store, skip
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the chopping, prepping, and cleaning
up two while still getting flavor and the
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nutritional quality you need. Factors fresh
never frozen meals are ready in just two
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minutes, so all you have to
do is heat and enjoy, then get
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back outside and soak up the warm
weather. And if you get hungry in
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the middle of watching pro wrestling well
during a video package, you can throw
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a Factor meal in the microwave.
In two minutes later, you're sitting down
1975
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finishing the show. But with a
meal you can feel good about eating.
1976
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I have loved having Factor in my
refrigerator. I eat primarily a vegan diet,
1977
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and I love their options. But
they've got options for everybody, including
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02:15:22.479 --> 02:15:26.399
people who are in ketto diets or
people who are on no special diet.
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There's barbecue, Sloppy Joe's halapeno,
beefmac and cheese, red pepper, Queso
1980
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chicken, Italian sausage, and sweet
pepperonata. I think that's all you say
1981
02:15:35.439 --> 02:15:39.479
it anchio, live salmon, and
more. The selection is exciting every week
1982
02:15:39.520 --> 02:15:41.479
when you get to pick out the
meals that you want. There a lot
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02:15:41.520 --> 02:15:45.359
of select meals for you that fit
your category if that's easier for you.
1984
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But you can easily customize what gets
delivered to your house and even skip a
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02:15:48.840 --> 02:15:50.960
week or two if you're going to
be away or have a lot of dinner
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plants outside the house. It's so
nice having these meals in the refrigerators,
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02:15:54.520 --> 02:15:58.239
knowing that they are Dietitian approved,
nutrient dense meals that are gonna leave you
1988
02:15:58.279 --> 02:16:01.600
feeling satisfied. I can speak from
experience. When I have a factor meal,
1989
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I don't even think about snacking four
hours afterwards, that's how satisfying they
1990
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are. But they've got calorie conscious
options too for this summer in case you're
1991
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trying to lose some weight and if
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or gain weight. They have protein
plus meals with thirty grams of protein or
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more per serving. If you've thought
it going vegan, but think it comes
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without taste or satisfaction, this is
the place to start. My next delivery
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includes three bean vegan chili, vegan
mushroom marsala harrisa I think that's all you
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say it, braised garbanzos stew.
The next week, my vegan options are
1997
02:16:31.399 --> 02:16:35.600
peanut bootaball, tomato, roasted vegetable, risotto, smoked tofu, almond stir
1998
02:16:35.680 --> 02:16:37.959
fry, and blacken tofu. Those
are the meals I'm looking forward to the
1999
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next few weeks. You can also
round out your meal and replenish your snack
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supply with cold press juices, shakes, smoothies, and more. So head
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to Factor meals dot com slash Wade
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fifty and use code Wade fifty to
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That's code Wade fifty at factor meals
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percent off your first box. Longing
for some nostalgia, or maybe you want
2005
02:17:11.719 --> 02:17:16.399
to learn some wrestling history, don't
miss the nineties Pass cast every Friday on
2006
02:17:16.479 --> 02:17:20.319
the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed.
Alex and Patrick will transport you thirty years
2007
02:17:20.360 --> 02:17:24.440
into the past by taking you through
the Torch issue from that very week.
2008
02:17:26.040 --> 02:17:30.200
Follow news from the WWF and WCW
and all of the happenings from across the
2009
02:17:30.280 --> 02:17:35.239
wrestling industry in real time as The
Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's
2010
02:17:35.280 --> 02:17:54.280
the nineties. Passcasts every Friday for
the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Aloha
2011
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Torch Faithful. This is Kelly Wells, host of PWT Talks and XT Every
2012
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Thursday. You can hear me in
My Game of Idiots, Tom Stout,
2013
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who shares thoughts from the live tapings
and Torch recap or Nate Lindbergh, as
2014
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well as a rotating cast of guests
cover the matches and events in NXT live
2015
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on USA Network. Search PW Torch
in Apple Podcasts or your podcast app to
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subscribe or listen on demand and see
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Dailycast dot com. Cheers thanks for
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Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or
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send us an email if you've got
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pwtorch dot com. Wade Keller Podcast
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else going on in pro wrestling that
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of what we're saying, and let
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Mever, go to pwtorch dot com, slash go vi ip and sign up
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today. Every Sunday night, catch
Wrestling Night in America on pwtrch daileycast dot
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com, hosted by me pwtrch columnist
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a co host from the Torch family
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1
00:00:00.920 --> 00:00:04.000
Now that at summer you might be
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active days. Factor America's number one
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reaching your goals, and you won't
be sitting around waiting for that delivery to
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your front door or having to make
a trip to the grocery store. If
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you're too busy with summer plants to
cook but want to make sure you're eating
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well, Factor is the answer.
Skip that trip to the grocery store,
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skip the chopping, prepping, and
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the nutritional quality you need. Factors
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two minutes, so all you have
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get back outside and soak up the
warm weather. And if you get hungry
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in the middle of watching pro wrestling
well during a video package, you can
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throw a Factor meal in the microwave
and in two minutes later you're sitting down
15
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finishing the show. But with a
meal you can feel good about eating.
16
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I have loved having Factor in my
refrigerator I eat. I'm merely a vegan
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diet and I love their options.
But they've got options for everybody, including
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people who are in ketto diets or
people who are on no special diet.
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There's barbecue, Sloppy Joe's halapeno,
beefmac and cheese, red pepper, Queso
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chicken, Italian sausage, and sweet
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it, anchio live salmon, and
more. The selection is exciting every week
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when you get to pick out the
meals that you want. There are a
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lot of select meals for you that
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But you can easily customize what gets
delivered to your house and even skip
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a week or two if you're going
to be away or have a lot of
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dinner plans outside the house. It's
so nice having these meals in the refrigerators,
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knowing that they are Dietitian approved,
nutrient dense meals that are gonna leave
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you feeling satisfied. I can speak
from experience. When I have a Factor
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meal, I don't even think about
snacking four hours afterwards. That's how satisfying
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they are, but they've got calorie
conscious options too for this summer in case
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you're trying to lose some weight and
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mass or gain weight. They have
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or more per serving. If you've
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without taste or satisfaction, this is
the place to start. My next delivery
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includes three bean vegan chili, vegan, mushroom marsala harrisa I think that's all
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you say it, braised garbanzos stew. The next week, my vegan options
37
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are peanut boot aball, tomato,
roasted vegetable, risotto, smoked tofu,
38
00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:20.400
almond stir fry, and blacken tofu. Those are the meals I'm looking forward
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to the next few weeks. You
can also round out your meal and replenish
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your snack supply with cold press juices, shakes, smoothies, and more.
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So head to Factor meals dot com
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com, slash fifty and use code
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first box. That's code Wade fifty
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fifty to get fifty percent off your
first box. Now PW Dorgan Spreaker bring
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00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:04.240
you the Wade Killow Pro Wrestling Podcast. It's time for Wade's interview with one
46
00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:15.360
of pro Wrestling's newsmakers. Five years
ago. This month, I interviewed former
47
00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:20.759
WWWE creative Team member Jason Allen.
I broke the interview into two parts.
48
00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:23.080
One dropped on June one, twenty
eighteen, the second one on June eighth,
49
00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:27.879
twenty eighteen, and we bring you
both installments today on the Wade Keller
50
00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:32.360
Pro Wrestling Podcast. Interview Classic for
Sunday, June eleventh, twenty twenty three.
51
00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:37.039
In part one, it was a
tenth anniversary of his time in WWE
52
00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:38.479
in two thousand and eight, and
he talked about life as a writer behind
53
00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:42.000
the scenes, how we got his
job, what it was like on the
54
00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:45.520
first day, and how we adapted
to the lifestyle, why it came to
55
00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:50.520
an end, and various fascinating anecdotes
about the creative process and the big names
56
00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:53.599
he worked with. Then, in
part two, he talked about how he
57
00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:57.639
ended up realizing life as a w
W writer might not have been a good
58
00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:00.680
long term fit for him. Including
a conversation on a plane with mcfoley about
59
00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:04.560
the debts he was having. Plus
some insights into some happenings in WWE in
60
00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:09.719
two thousand and eight, including John
Cena's poopy incident with JBL's Limo, the
61
00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:14.919
Mike Adamley disaster, insight into Vincic
Man's quirky million dollars giveaway on RAW that
62
00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:17.279
was fifteen years ago, wow,
and how people reacted internally to that.
63
00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:21.160
Also, did writers check out online
reviews of their shows, how it was
64
00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:25.959
difficult to watch veteran wrestlers be a
shell of their former selves backstage when the
65
00:04:25.959 --> 00:04:29.680
cameras are off, and much more. This is a fascinating interview. These
66
00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:34.279
interviews that I conducted dozens of them
with x WWE creative team members always provide
67
00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:39.000
insight you just can't get anywhere else. These are non wrestlers, kind of
68
00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:42.720
they feel like outsiders a little bit
sometimes in WWE they're, you know,
69
00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:46.240
at times, a close knit group. I know, I've observed them just
70
00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:49.920
hanging out after matches together while the
wrestlers are in a totally different zone.
71
00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:56.519
But these interviews give us a window
into the dynamic that exists between non wrestling
72
00:04:56.920 --> 00:05:02.040
or non X wrestler writers and vincc
Man and the wrestling the wrestlers themselves.
73
00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:04.600
So I think you really enjoy this, especially if you didn't hear it the
74
00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:08.279
first time. But even if you
did, I know there's aspects of this
75
00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:12.639
interview I don't recall details of and
I look forward to listening to all of
76
00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:15.879
this again myself. So let's let's
do it together. Here here we go
77
00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:28.319
with this weekend's interview Classic again with
Jason Allen. Now Podcast one brings you
78
00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:32.240
the Wade Killer Pro Wrestling Podcast.
It's time for Keller's interview with one of
79
00:05:32.279 --> 00:05:43.000
pro wrestling newsmakers. There's so many
different ways that one could experience working in
80
00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:47.720
WWE, and we hear from a
lot of wrestlers and announcers and sometimes referees
81
00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:55.000
even and X creative team members.
And today we have another guest on Interview
82
00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:58.800
Friday here on the Way Killer Prosing
podcast at Podcast one, and that is
83
00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:02.959
Jason Allen, who worked Jason,
what would you say your official title was
84
00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:08.439
for your stint ten years ago with
WWE At the time we were called writer
85
00:06:08.519 --> 00:06:13.040
assistants. Yeah, and so Christian
Harlock was on the show earlier this year
86
00:06:13.079 --> 00:06:16.759
and talked about his short stay as
a podcast one host covering movies and he
87
00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:20.319
had a short stay in WWE,
and we had a really fun conversation about
88
00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:25.279
that experience with him. And then
Jason contacted me and said, well,
89
00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:29.720
I feel like I can have a
similar experience to share it but at a
90
00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:33.959
different time. And I love hearing
about situations like this where somebody comes in,
91
00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:39.120
spend some time at the company,
and then is still a wrestling fan
92
00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:41.120
now ten years well, ten years
later, we're getting too long. You've
93
00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:44.199
been a fan and all that and
can look back on that and talk about
94
00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:46.399
what the experience was like and share
it with all of us. So,
95
00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:48.360
Jason, Jason Allen, thank you
for taking time to join us today.
96
00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:53.199
Yeah, thanks for having me Waite
excellent. So what I want to do
97
00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:58.000
is kind of just set the table
a little bit on when when you first
98
00:06:58.040 --> 00:07:01.360
became a wrestling fan, and when
it first entered your mind that maybe you
99
00:07:01.399 --> 00:07:04.439
wanted to work for w WA,
and how when the heck get it up
100
00:07:04.480 --> 00:07:09.079
being a writer's assistant back in two
thousand and eight. All Right, Well,
101
00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:13.319
I mean as far back as I
can really remember, I remember being
102
00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:17.360
aware of wrestling and being interested in
wrestling as a child of the eighties.
103
00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:21.639
I mean, Hawkomania was just something
you couldn't really escape. It was there,
104
00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:26.160
everybody was talking about it. It
was there was there was no way
105
00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:30.240
to kind of avoid it because it
was what everybody was into. I'd probably
106
00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:36.160
say my most vivid first memory of
wrestling was the time that that Undertaker locked
107
00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:41.920
Ultimate Warrior in the casket. I
remember that really kind of frightening me and
108
00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:45.800
sticking with me as as something that
I didn't want to happen to me at
109
00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:48.920
any point, and and it just
kind of hung with me there. And
110
00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:53.680
then all of my friends were very
into it, you know, attitude era
111
00:07:53.839 --> 00:07:57.480
kind of time. And I hung
through it. You know, two thousand
112
00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:01.279
and four, two thousand and five
had I had a lot of people,
113
00:08:01.319 --> 00:08:03.040
you know, um, oh you're
still into that. People still watch that.
114
00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:07.759
So push through that stuff. And
I got into it to it as
115
00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:11.920
a job because I didn't really know
what I wanted to do. I was
116
00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:18.040
going to college in South Florida,
and I went into my academic advisor's office
117
00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:20.959
and and she's like, you know, why why are you here? What
118
00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:24.920
do you wish to accomplish in college? And you know, I just said
119
00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:30.000
it seemed like the right place to
go after high school, and yeah,
120
00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:31.759
I don't really don't want him here. And she said, well, I'll
121
00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:35.000
tell you what, if you could
if you could do anything, or if
122
00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:39.279
you could be anybody, what would
you be. And I thought about it
123
00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:41.159
for a second and I said,
you know, I'd probably be Jim Ross.
124
00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:45.200
And I had to kind of explain
to her who that was, and
125
00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:46.919
then she understood exactly what I was
looking to do. And then so I
126
00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:54.399
got into broadcasting and mass coom and
things like that and finished up with a
127
00:08:54.440 --> 00:09:00.000
bachelor's in that, and then it
was just a matter of getting WWE's attention.
128
00:09:00.919 --> 00:09:07.320
So I graduated in December of six
and I started applying there pretty much
129
00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:13.879
immediately because I noticed that they always
had writer positions open on the job board.
130
00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:18.519
I would find out why later on, but there was a writer assistant
131
00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:22.840
position there and it was just daily. I mean I would I would apply
132
00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:24.919
to it online daily. It got
to the point where I was I was
133
00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:31.679
sending mailers and I was sending a
certified letters. I was just grabbing random
134
00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:35.480
names that I could possibly think of, you know, uh, John Smith
135
00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:39.360
at WWE dot com. John Smith
at wwecorp dot com, you know,
136
00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:45.639
you know, just throwing everything I
possibly could at the wall. And then
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00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:48.720
I bought my tickets. This was
in February. I bought my tickets for
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WrestleMania twenty four in Orlando, and
about an hour and a half after I
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00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:58.279
got that Ticketmaster receipt, my phone
rang and it was a recruiter for WWE
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and he said, hey, you
know, first go ahead and stop with
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the resumes. We're good, we
got plenty. Thanks for that. Are
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00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:13.639
you still interested? And I was
like, well, yeah, of course,
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you know, like you have a
certified mailing from me a day ago.
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00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:20.480
Yeah, I'm interested. And then
he said, okay, I'll call
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you back. And we kind of
played this back in fourth game for about
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three or four weeks, and then
finally he calls me and he says,
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00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:31.639
hey, we want to bring you
up. Can you be in Stanford,
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00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:35.759
you know, on on Friday.
I don't remember the exact date, but
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can you be up here? And
I said, yeah, done deal,
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I'll be there at you know,
eight am. So I fly up,
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00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:43.679
you know, one day trip,
go in, do the interview process,
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meet with a few different people,
fly back, get a call, a
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00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:50.600
few days later and they're like,
you know, pack your stuff, guy,
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00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:54.240
your your movement to Stanford. You
get up here, you know,
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April first. So at this point
you've got the you call it to run
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00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:03.639
around or would you just call it
a process you had to endure and be
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patient during. Yeah, I wouldn't
definitely, definitely wouldn't call it to run
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around. I never felt like,
you know, like they were too busy
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or you know, they want to
just like keep me simmering or make me
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earn it or anything like that.
It was more just you were waiting to
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see if this other guy players out
okay, because there because there's always it's
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like they never stop hiring for that
kind of role, but they have to
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wait until there's an actual vacancy to
bring someone in. Yeah. Yeah,
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so you get the green light.
And at this point, are you as
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excited as you imagined or are you
nervous that you know, the proverbial dog
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catching the bumper? Oh god,
now I've got to go do this?
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Like what was It's it's sort of
like going off to college, but you're
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going off to Stanford. Talk about
your mindset as this dream finally came to
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fruition. Yeah, I mean,
I was very, very pumped. The
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thing that kind of made me uneasy
was, you know, I'm moving a
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thousand miles away from home home,
and this is not a guaranteed gig by
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any means. This is not like
a full time salarad career with benefits and
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stuff where they know who you are
and they want you to be there.
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This is a three month trial period
and at that point, if you're not
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cutting it, you know you're done. And then so now I'm a thousand
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miles away from home and I'm working
your basic job that I could have gotten
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at home, and I'm stuck in
this long term lease and stuff, and
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you know, so it was I
was definitely nervous in that aspect. I
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never doubted that I could do the
job or could do what was asked to
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me. I knew that I could
succeed, you know, if my heart
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was in it. And so I
went up there, you know, guns
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blaze, and packed up what I
could in my car and off it went.
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00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:50.720
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you like about the programs in the comments
192
00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:26.399
section. Thank you so much.
So what kind of prep did they give
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you? I mean, I'm interested
in minutia like dress code, how early
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to show up, who to talk
to, like how much did they kind
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of have because obviously they go through
this with a lot of a lot of
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00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:43.919
writing assistants, so they've probably felt
like you're signing up for something that was
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00:13:43.919 --> 00:13:46.559
a process and it was sort of
refined. Did you get that sense?
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Yeah, definitely felt like there was
kind of a there was a machinery in
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play where you got there and it's
like, oh, okay, that's the
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00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:54.759
new guy, and you stay the
new guy until someone knew or shows up
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right. I mean, I was
told by the recruiter that at you know,
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00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:03.480
hey, you're gonna be at TV
UM two sometimes three days a week.
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00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.039
You got to wear suit and tie
every time you're there, show up
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day one to TV suit and tie. I'm the only one in that kind
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00:14:11.080 --> 00:14:15.039
of stuff. Um. Everybody else
is nicely dressed, but definitely not you
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00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.080
know, not as as corporate as
I looked at the time. It was,
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00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:22.039
you know, made very clear early
on, like, Okay, there's
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00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:24.240
there's a couple of things that you're
gonna that you're gonna need to know as
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00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:28.399
far as our brotherhood, so to
speak, and that is anytime you see
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00:14:28.399 --> 00:14:31.039
somebody first time, doesn't matter,
shake them, shake their hand, look
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00:14:31.080 --> 00:14:35.080
him in the eye, say hello, good to see us. Some guys
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00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:37.240
like to be called by their character
name. Some guys prefer this name.
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00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:41.799
UM. So you start to pick
up on those things real quick, you
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00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:45.879
know, like like Undertaker is taker, or he's undertaker, he's you don't
215
00:14:45.879 --> 00:14:48.600
call him anything else, you know. And if you approached him and you
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00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:52.080
shake his hand and stuff like that, and you're you don't show any intimidation,
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00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:56.159
but you show respect, and then
that we're different kind of I don't
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00:14:56.159 --> 00:15:00.960
want to call him rules, but
just different kind of moras for different guys.
219
00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:03.240
So you kind of pick up on
those things as you go. And
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00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:09.000
Uh, I made the mistake of
not shaking Dusty Rhodes hand one time early
221
00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:11.840
on in the day, and for
the rest of the day, it was
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00:15:11.879 --> 00:15:13.159
like every time I passed him,
he'd looked at me and he'd shake my
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00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:18.279
hand and he's like, who are
you again? And so he definitely like
224
00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:20.960
you ripped me for the next you
know, a couple of days about that,
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00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:24.519
and uh, you know, it's
it's just small stuff like that,
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00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:28.399
stuff that you wouldn't really think of
um as being important, but it's important
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00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:31.720
to that to that culture, into
that family. Yeah. Interesting, So
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00:15:33.799 --> 00:15:37.799
if you remember talk about a few
of the other peculiar or particular ways that
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00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:45.200
you had to approach talent or or
high end staff, like you know Dusty,
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00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:48.720
uh differently than others, Like does
anything else jump out in terms of
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00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:52.320
Okay, this is how you approach
this guy, but don't do it with
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00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:54.919
this guy. This is a different
approach. I mean, each guy kind
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00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:58.200
of had their own vibe. You
know. Some guys were very involved in
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00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:03.320
the in the pros, and other
guys were were sort of kind of off
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00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:06.600
on their own doing their own thing, and a lot of it had to
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00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:10.159
do with their position on the card
at the time. Uh, you know,
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00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:14.200
Triple H and Sean would kind of
you know, hang off this to
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00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:18.240
the side and and you know,
talk business and work through their programs with
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00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:21.159
each other, bouncing stuff off of
them, So they weren't really involved with
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00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:23.039
a person like me, you know, aside from me just going to get
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00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:26.200
them and say, hey, we're
going to do this pre tape. Mid
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00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:30.360
card guys were much more involved in
the process with with someone like me like
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00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:36.399
I dealt a lot with Santino and
uh, Miss and Morrison at the time,
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00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:41.120
Shelton, Benjamin, the Legacy group, Um, those guys were much
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00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:45.480
more eager to kind of talk to
me and bounce ideas off of me,
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00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:52.000
even though you know, technically not
really all that high on my own totem
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00:16:52.039 --> 00:16:55.000
pole. But you know, I
was, I was accessible, whereas you
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00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:56.559
know, maybe some of the other
guys weren't always available, you know,
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00:16:56.600 --> 00:17:00.720
maybe uh, you know, Brian
wasn't available at the time, or DJ
250
00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:04.079
wasn't available at the time, so
they would kind of pass stuff through me.
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00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:07.960
You know. It worked a lot
with with Miss and Morrison when they
252
00:17:07.960 --> 00:17:11.960
were having their feud with Finley and
Hornswoggle. I mean, I remember sitting
253
00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:15.880
down with those four guys and hammering
stuff out for a little bit. So
254
00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:21.079
let's talk just a little bit about
that. Walking in the door. You
255
00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:25.240
know, you're supposed to shake hands
with people. Are you given a place
256
00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:29.000
to go in an assignment on this
first day? Are you told to just
257
00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:33.160
sit back and observe? Are you
shadowing somebody? Talk about that first day
258
00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:37.759
at TV? Okay, so the
first day, there's not really a call
259
00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:41.119
time for me, so to speak, because I'm just kind of going with
260
00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:45.400
the school of fish, you know. So we're told, you know,
261
00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:48.039
be at the building by twelve,
and it's just I'm in a car with
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00:17:48.359 --> 00:17:52.880
the other people that are going there
at twelve o'clock and we get in there
263
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:56.200
and the first thing that we're going
to do is we're going to set up
264
00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:00.799
the room for the production meeting.
We're going to lay out soda and chips
265
00:18:00.799 --> 00:18:03.839
and stuff. And that's one of
those other kind of nuances that you learn
266
00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:07.240
over time. You're like, Okay, this guy has to have two diet
267
00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:11.799
cokes. And it reminds me a
lot of like like those concert writers you
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00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:14.799
hear about sometimes whereas some people are
like, you know, only green m
269
00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:19.039
and M's and no one was that
that meticulous, but it was very particular
270
00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:22.880
that you know, these certain sodas
be here and no no vitamin waters and
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00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.279
you know that kind of thing.
So we would set up the room for
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00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:30.920
everyone who's going to be involved in
that kind of script reading and redrafting process.
273
00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:33.160
That would be the first thing we'd
do. No, and then it's
274
00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:36.240
just a matter of okay, here's
a revision, here's a revision, here's
275
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.720
a revision, handing out new scripts
as they're as they're changed, and you
276
00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:41.359
know, going to a guy like
Arn't Anderson and he's like, oh my
277
00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:45.240
gosh, this is the ninth page
you've handed me. You know how many
278
00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:48.240
more of these am I going to
have? And and you know him throw
279
00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:52.359
it in, not throwing but him
handing me the existing one and I'll here
280
00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:56.440
take this away, and him copying
his notes over from one side to the
281
00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.160
other. Um. You know,
So that was a big part of that.
282
00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:04.039
That's sort of auxiliary person, that
writer's assistant person where you have creative
283
00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:10.400
input, but on the road at
TV, your primary role is to facilitate
284
00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:12.799
to create a process. Yeah,
I have a great idea by all means
285
00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:17.480
to chime in, but for the
most part, you know, get the
286
00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:19.440
coffee, get the copies, keep
people happy, grab me this guy,
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00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:22.799
tell people to be quiet, you
know that kind of stuff. So how
288
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:26.640
old are you at this point?
I think I was about I was twenty
289
00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:30.720
six at the time, and so
how what level of star struck are you
290
00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:36.039
at this point? And had you
been around famous people that you saw on
291
00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:41.119
TV before? And how did you
handle whatever those feelings were where it's like,
292
00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:42.519
this is my job, you know, and look like, you know,
293
00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:45.519
act like you belong, but you're
also kind of taking a lot in
294
00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:48.799
that you've been watching all these years. Yeah, it was a really weird
295
00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:52.920
thing for me because I thought that
it would affect me a lot more than
296
00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:56.400
it did. But it didn't have
too much effect on me at all.
297
00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:02.079
And I think that had a part
to with my departure there. I think
298
00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:08.160
because the quote unquote reverence for the
talent as far as being you know,
299
00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:11.400
stars and stuff just really wasn't there
for me. I mean, it was
300
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:15.519
it was cool to interact with a
guy like Triple H you know, because
301
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.680
he was a fan favorite, you
know, a favorite of mine, you
302
00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:21.440
know, coming up through the attitude
error, he was definitely one of my
303
00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:25.599
favorite wrestlers, you know, so
meeting him for the first time was interesting.
304
00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:27.920
But it was never like, oh
my god, tell me about you
305
00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:30.799
know, tell me about Madison Square
Garden with Cactus Jack. I have to
306
00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:33.920
note that dumb tax hurt, you
know. There was never anything like that
307
00:20:34.000 --> 00:20:37.960
for me. I had a high
level of respect for them and what they
308
00:20:38.039 --> 00:20:41.920
did, but it was kind of
like, you know, I appreciated my
309
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.000
chance to sort of peek behind the
curtain, and I didn't want to ruin
310
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:49.480
that by being a fan now afterward, when you're not at TV or you
311
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:52.799
know, you're kind of like at
the hotel bar afterward, or you're in
312
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:56.680
the elevator riding up to your room, you know, that's where you have
313
00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.319
those little candid moments where you can
kind of be a fan just a little
314
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:02.880
bit. Where do you tell a
guy like, oh man, you really
315
00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:07.440
nailed that promo. I was really
into what you were saying, and at
316
00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:10.400
that point you're saying it to him
more as a fan than as a as
317
00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:14.039
a writer. So there were little
kind of snippets of that, but there
318
00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:17.599
was never anybody, not even with
Vince really where it was like, oh
319
00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:18.920
my god, I can't believe them
in the same room right now with you.
320
00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.319
By the way, if you're enjoying
this interview with Jason Allen, x
321
00:21:22.480 --> 00:21:26.680
w WV Creative Team member, if
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so back to my interview with one
time WWE creative team member Jason Allen.
341
00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:06.960
He worked for WWE for six months
back in two thousand and eight, so
342
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:10.640
we're on the tenure anniversary of his
time with the company, and we're talking
343
00:23:10.680 --> 00:23:15.160
about what it was like to be
a guy in his mid twenties getting his
344
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:21.000
dream job after trying very hard to
get in the door with WWE and trying
345
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:26.359
to orient himself to that atmosphere to
the company, which is, you know,
346
00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:32.279
not like an average workplace. So
let's talk about the social morays on
347
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:34.960
the writing team, and and just
some specifics. I mean, you mentioned
348
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:41.279
Brian and DJ. Elaborate for listeners
on who they were and talk a little
349
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:44.640
bit about how that structure worked.
Did it feel welcoming, did it feel
350
00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:48.680
territorial? Get into kind of that
aspect of it. So when I got
351
00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:52.559
there, we had the three different
shows that we were all writing for.
352
00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:56.680
We were writing for ROW, SmackDown, and ECW, and we were broken
353
00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:02.519
into teams. They were weren't official
teams, meaning, you know, if
354
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:06.079
you had a really good pitch for
a SmackDown talent and you worked with the
355
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:08.559
Raw team, you couldn't. There
was always an avenue for you to do
356
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:12.920
that, because, I mean,
you're with these people constantly, and when
357
00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:17.279
we were talking eighty ninety hours a
week, you know, you're you're there
358
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:21.279
with the people who are putting pen
to paper and making these things happen.
359
00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:26.119
So it wasn't like anything was off
limits. My official role was that I
360
00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:32.640
was a writer assistant for the Raw
team, which meant my direct boss would
361
00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:36.680
be Brian Gowartz, who was the
lead writer of Raw at the time.
362
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:45.240
On the SmackDown side, it was
mostly it was mostly Michael Hayes DJ,
363
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:51.799
who most people would know as Big
Dick Johnson in his on air roll DJ,
364
00:24:52.359 --> 00:24:56.400
and then ye had Ed Koski who's
still there. Those were the main
365
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:03.200
backbone, and Dave Kapor was was
huge and I really appreciate it Dave because
366
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.319
he was one of the ones that
I kind of clung to the most,
367
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:07.839
I think out of that whole group
as far as you know, what do
368
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:12.160
I do? What do I say? The other writer assistant there that helped
369
00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:15.200
train me, he was awesome too, and he had been there for a
370
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:18.440
couple months prior to me being there, so you really kind of had it
371
00:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.039
had, you know, everything on
Lockdown and he was happy to have some
372
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:26.920
support, so that worked out really
well. But basically, I mean you
373
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.079
had those two teams, and there
were other associate writers, you know,
374
00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:33.559
three or four on each team that
helped make it happen. But SmackDown in
375
00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:37.200
ECW generally kind of got grouped together
because they were taped the same day,
376
00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:41.759
so that team was kind of one
team. Ed Kosky really kind of focused,
377
00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:45.759
I think more on ECW, although
he was very involved in producing a
378
00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:48.720
lot of stuff for both shows.
He was constantly there, you know,
379
00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:52.359
right next events kind of going over
shots and this is going to happen,
380
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:55.559
This is going to happen. And
of course Brian, you know, Brian
381
00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:00.920
was instrumental and everything that happened on
Raw. Well, to talk a little
382
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:03.359
bit about Brian Gortz, Uh,
he put people have a lot to say
383
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.480
about him, even though he doesn't
seek out much publicity. He's done a
384
00:26:07.559 --> 00:26:11.200
one or two interviews about his time
there, very tight with the rock.
385
00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:15.519
Uh, you're you're looking at this
through the lens of somebody now in your
386
00:26:15.559 --> 00:26:18.519
mid third he's looking back at that
experience. Uh, what what did you
387
00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:23.920
pick up on in terms of uh
Gwertz and the dynamic he had with other
388
00:26:23.960 --> 00:26:29.039
writers and McMahon And did he seem
like the alpha? Did he seem more
389
00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:32.799
Columbo like? Like kind of Uh, your guard could be down because he
390
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.720
didn't give off a vibe of being
important, even though he was very important.
391
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:40.160
So when I went up for the
interview, I first sat down with
392
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.279
the recruiter who had called me up
to Stanford, and UM, we're talking
393
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:48.319
and stuff and and just a real
basic you know, who are you?
394
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:52.279
Why do you want to be here? Kind of thing and uh, and
395
00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:55.960
then he goes, uh, so
I'm sorry, but none of the other
396
00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:57.400
people who need to talk to you
are here today. And I'm thinking,
397
00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:03.240
like, you know, I've I've
flew up here, and yeah, definitely,
398
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:06.759
not like well why couldn't they be
bothered to be here for me,
399
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:08.079
but kind of like, well,
what am I supposed to do now?
400
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:11.640
And he said, tell you what, We're gonna We're gonna pay for you
401
00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:14.799
to get a cab. We're gonna
send you down to the train station.
402
00:27:14.839 --> 00:27:18.319
There was one right down the street
from the office, and you're gonna ride
403
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.359
into Grand Central and h then you're
gonna walk six blocks this way and four
404
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:26.359
blocks that way and go up to
the you know, seventeenth floor and and
405
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:30.400
Brian will be there. And so
you know, like I'm not some you
406
00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:33.240
know, naive child, but I
had never been to New York City.
407
00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:36.759
So I go through all of those
motions. I go up there and and
408
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:40.599
then there's Brian behind the counter,
and U. I mean, the first
409
00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:45.039
my first impression was like, you
know, this guy's m this guy's kind
410
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:48.960
of quiet. He seems like,
you know, he seems sort of to
411
00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:53.200
himself, kind of lost in his
own thought from time to time, but
412
00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:59.960
extremely sharp. He had a very
good rapport with with everybody that I encountered.
413
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:06.440
It never got the vibe that Brian
was above anybody or above anything else,
414
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:11.200
even though he was extremely influential backstage, certain guys would would definitely cling
415
00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:17.119
to him in that sort of rock
type relationship, you know, like Sena.
416
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:21.480
He would work closely with Sena.
As far as Burbage, he and
417
00:28:21.599 --> 00:28:26.119
Jericho worked extremely close together. From
what I could see during the Jericho's whole
418
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:30.640
summer program with Michaels, like every
bat of that story came out of the
419
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.440
two of them just kind of sitting
in the writer's room and hammering that out.
420
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:36.200
What are we going to say?
What are we going to do?
421
00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:41.359
And I think that's important, you
know, especially for talent to establish their
422
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.440
own voice and not just take what's
written on the page, because you know,
423
00:28:45.480 --> 00:28:48.799
sometimes what we were right is,
you know, captures the bullets of
424
00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:52.200
what needs to happen, but it
doesn't speak in their narrative or in their
425
00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:59.640
voice. And Jericho was really important
in getting that program to work. But
426
00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:06.839
I mean Brian, Brian was often
handed, you know, unsolvable problems with
427
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:11.319
the task of making them work.
We would often be in the writer's room
428
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.000
on a Wednesday, for example,
and we've just done two TVs and you
429
00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:18.400
know, people are kind of a
little bushed from the road and we're sitting
430
00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:23.519
around kind of debriefing what happened,
where we're going, and then Brian would
431
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:26.759
walk in after he just had an
hour long meeting with Vents, and then
432
00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:30.720
he would drop this bomb on us, Hey, this is what we're doing.
433
00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:34.039
How does this? How do we
make this work? You know?
434
00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.599
That's that's how the Adamley think came
about. As he just came in and
435
00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:42.359
he was like, so Mike Adamley
is going to be the GM of Raw
436
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:47.279
And we just kind of all sat
there with our jaws on the floor and
437
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:52.160
it's like, okay, so that's
what we're doing. Same kind of thing
438
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.559
with the Championship Scramble, like he
had to come in that was the main
439
00:29:56.599 --> 00:30:00.359
event for two of the or two
main events for the unfre of a pay
440
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:02.960
per view, Like there was a
brand new concept and he had to come
441
00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:07.839
in and basically pitch it to us
because this was an idea that I think
442
00:30:08.279 --> 00:30:11.440
Patterson had come up with, and
it came down the pipe that this was
443
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:14.839
something we were gonna do and it's
like okay, well, like how do
444
00:30:14.920 --> 00:30:18.599
we how do we get there?
So Brian would be handed these things where
445
00:30:18.640 --> 00:30:22.440
it's like, hey, you gotta
work slim gyms into the script or whatever.
446
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:26.000
And he would come in and his
job was to kind of motivate us,
447
00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:29.799
to get the best out of us, so that we could make those
448
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:33.440
ideas that were coming down, sometimes
from advertising, sometimes from Vince, we
449
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:40.039
could make those things work in a
storyline context. But he was, I
450
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:42.279
mean, extremely dedicated. He's one
of the hardest working people I think I've
451
00:30:42.279 --> 00:30:45.119
ever met, and he carried a
lot, a lot of that burden,
452
00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:48.680
you know, on his shoulders,
and at times, you know, it
453
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:53.000
would seem like it it warmed down
a bit. Yeah, yeah, interesting.
454
00:30:56.079 --> 00:31:00.359
A little sidebar because this is fascinating. You really enjoy talking about this
455
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.799
aspect of behind the scenes in WWE. What was social life like? Well,
456
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:07.240
you know what, let me actually
for the sake of listeners, because
457
00:31:07.279 --> 00:31:08.319
I know a little bit about this, but I haven't had you talked about
458
00:31:08.359 --> 00:31:11.839
you yet. How long did you
stay there? Right, let's actually kind
459
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:15.759
of cover how long you were there
and why you left, so we kind
460
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:18.480
of have know where the endpoint is. And then We're going to fill in
461
00:31:18.319 --> 00:31:21.920
that period with some more stories,
and I've got some follow up questions,
462
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:26.799
but let's actually go to that now
and talk about the date you started,
463
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:30.319
what you kind of remember was going
on storyline wise then, and then how
464
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:33.480
long you were there and what led
to your departure, and I'm sure that's
465
00:31:33.559 --> 00:31:37.039
kind of a pretty big part of
your story. So go ahead with that
466
00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:40.559
now, and then I'll ask those
other questions. Okay, yeah, yeah,
467
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:42.240
I started, like I said,
so, I bought the WrestleMania twenty
468
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:48.680
four tickets, and when I went
there to watch the show in Orlando,
469
00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:52.799
I knew that I would be joining
this team and I was basically leaving.
470
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:57.720
My car was packed waiting for me
to come back home and drive out That
471
00:31:57.880 --> 00:32:05.440
next Monday. I went in there
and started Tuesday after Mania twenty four,
472
00:32:05.599 --> 00:32:07.599
and the guys were still out on
the road, so it was just me,
473
00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:14.920
you know, and I'm walking around
the halls and stuff in Stanford and
474
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:19.960
there's just these, you know,
really great pay per view posters everywhere,
475
00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.599
and I go in the writer's room
and there's toys all over the place,
476
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:28.079
you know, from guys who like
had an action figure made. But then
477
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:34.119
they never got signs, so it's
like these one off toys. And and
478
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:37.799
I went in to meet Stephanie because
she wasn't there when I first started or
479
00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:40.960
when I came up for the interview. And Stephanie's like seven months eight months
480
00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:45.599
pregnant at this point with her first
child. And she comes up to me
481
00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:49.920
and she's just so sweet and so
so nice, and she's like, oh,
482
00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:52.119
hi, I'm so nice to meet
to look, I swear I'm not
483
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:55.400
a diva and I'm not like this, but I need a blueberry muffin right
484
00:32:55.400 --> 00:33:00.680
now. So I was my first
official task was to run myself down to
485
00:33:00.720 --> 00:33:06.000
the donut shop and get Stephanie a
blueberry muffin. So there there are times
486
00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:08.440
I absolutely wish I could just shout
out, I want a blueberry muffin and
487
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:10.839
I would have one a you know, twenty minutes later. That would be
488
00:33:10.839 --> 00:33:16.039
really nice. Yeah, So there
was that, And I worked all through
489
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:20.279
that summer, so we did I
think six or seven pay per views in
490
00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:23.039
the short amount of time that I
was there, and pretty much right after
491
00:33:24.039 --> 00:33:30.880
Unforgiven, which was September seventh,
I remember going down and taking the walk
492
00:33:30.880 --> 00:33:36.359
to HR on September eleven, two
thousand and eight, so a relatively short
493
00:33:36.440 --> 00:33:39.599
stint. I did my three month
tenure and they extended me on a month
494
00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:45.000
to month basis and just kind of
learned over time that this wasn't you know,
495
00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:52.839
a long term lifestyle for me.
Do you remember when Hulkogan shot the
496
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:57.000
world and formed the New World Order? Or when Stone Cold Steve Aouston passed
497
00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:00.119
down on the Sharp Shooter to breath
the hit Man hard. I'm Torch contributor
498
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:06.359
Frank Pettianni, and I've reviewed these
shows and many more for my exclusive VIP
499
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:09.440
podcast, Pro Wrestling Than and Now. Together with a rotating chair of co
500
00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:14.639
hosts, we go back ten,
twenty, even thirty years, review pay
501
00:34:14.639 --> 00:34:17.199
per views from top to bottom,
talk about where the wrestlers were at the
502
00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:21.719
time, and compare what took place
then to what is taking place now.
503
00:34:22.159 --> 00:34:27.440
You get exclusive access to these and
other podcasts as part of your Pwtorch VIP
504
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:31.800
membership, which is compatible with the
Apple Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch dot com
505
00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:46.199
slash go vip for details and sign
up form. Talk about the lifestyle,
506
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:53.760
the social life for the writers relative
to other people who work for WWA and
507
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:57.639
even within the writing team. You
know how that is a little bit different.
508
00:34:57.679 --> 00:35:01.760
How how how do you look back
on that period of time that you
509
00:35:01.840 --> 00:35:06.880
were on the road and living that
very different schedule that I think most people
510
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:13.280
experience. I think it really depends
you you buy into the lifestyle to your
511
00:35:13.519 --> 00:35:17.000
level of comfort. I think it's
very much when people would ask me,
512
00:35:17.039 --> 00:35:21.480
you know, what's what's it like, why aren't you there? You know
513
00:35:21.880 --> 00:35:24.039
that I would kill to have that
job. That kind of thing um to
514
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:28.519
me. It's very much like being
in a rock band, where you know,
515
00:35:28.559 --> 00:35:31.119
you go to a venue, you
set up, you do the show,
516
00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:36.480
it's eleven thirty, you go back
to the hotel and everybody's at the
517
00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:38.840
hotel bar, and then you know, if you're not, if you're not
518
00:35:38.920 --> 00:35:44.880
really part of that, It's it's
very easy to find yourself. I don't
519
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:49.280
want to say blackballed that because that's
the wrong term, but you're just you
520
00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:52.320
come across as like, well,
he's not one of us, you know,
521
00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:54.239
And and I tried to do that. I tried to be that person
522
00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:59.039
for a while, you know,
not necessarily with the heavy drinking, but
523
00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:04.400
just try to, you know,
play into that part and be that person
524
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:07.880
and I found out that it really
wasn't for me because social wise, that's
525
00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:12.440
it, Like that is all you
have. You have the people around you,
526
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:16.440
and you're flying on planes and riding
in cars constantly with the writing team.
527
00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:21.320
Sometimes you know, you have a
talent in the car with you if
528
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:23.159
they didn't have a car or something
like that. And I mean, that
529
00:36:23.280 --> 00:36:25.920
really becomes your family. And you
kind of look, you kind of look
530
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:30.320
above you at at some of the
other people that are there, and you're
531
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:34.400
like, you know, do they
have families, do they have kids?
532
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:37.480
If they do, do they ever
see them? You know? And and
533
00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:39.320
that was really what started to kind
of eat at me, not because I
534
00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:43.920
had that stuff, because I wanted
that stuff. I went up there,
535
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:47.880
you know, solo person. You
know, didn't know anybody anything or you
536
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:53.280
know, no one was entitled to
my time except for me and the social
537
00:36:53.320 --> 00:36:57.880
circles small. Like I never developed
any friends when I was in Stanford because
538
00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:01.079
there was no time. You you
come off the show and like I said,
539
00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:04.639
it's eleven thirty when Raw goes off
the air and you get back to
540
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:07.880
the hotel and you're just like you're
jacked on adrenaline and stuff because it's it's
541
00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:13.440
fast moving and stuff changes and crap
hits the fan and you're just on edge,
542
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.840
you know. So you might not
get to bed until three o'clock,
543
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:20.239
four o'clock, get up the next
day ten o'clock, and you hit the
544
00:37:20.320 --> 00:37:22.800
venue at eleven, and then you're
there until midnight again, and then maybe
545
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.639
you catch a plane, maybe it
don't. Maybe your planes at seven thirty
546
00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:29.800
in the morning, and you know, you get home long enough to wash
547
00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:31.519
your clothes and put them right back
in the suitcase. And you know,
548
00:37:31.639 --> 00:37:36.039
I don't mean to come across like
you know, this grizzled road veteran because
549
00:37:36.079 --> 00:37:38.239
I didn't do it for that long. But it's it's a it's a grueling
550
00:37:38.320 --> 00:37:43.239
schedule. Well, yeah, it's
either something that you love and want to
551
00:37:43.320 --> 00:37:46.239
keep doing. But if it's something
you don't, it doesn't make any sense
552
00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:50.760
to make that your life, you
know. I mean, and and well,
553
00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:54.239
as you're kind of going through this
and you say you didn't really create
554
00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:59.079
friends or developed friendships, but from
a camaraderie standpoint with the other writers,
555
00:37:59.159 --> 00:38:02.079
did was the time to talk about
that aspect of things, the things that
556
00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:05.920
are going through your head, which
is is this something you guys want for
557
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:07.800
a long time. Is this a
sustainable way to live your life? Do
558
00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:12.280
you have families? Do you see
families? Or was it not really in
559
00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:15.079
that even in that six months fan
wasn't there an opportunity to get to know
560
00:38:15.239 --> 00:38:20.159
other writers in that way as it
came and went. Well, Yeah,
561
00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:22.519
I don't want to make it seem
like like people weren't friendly there or that
562
00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:29.800
relationships didn't blossom. What I mean
is like outside of the WWE circle for
563
00:38:29.960 --> 00:38:32.000
me anyway, there was no one. There were the people that I lived
564
00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:37.280
with, but I would barely see
them. And I really really lucked out
565
00:38:37.360 --> 00:38:40.960
when I came up to Stanford because
I managed to find an apartment with three
566
00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:45.320
other guys, one of which who
happened to work for the company at the
567
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:47.760
time and he's still there now.
At the time, he worked in their
568
00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:51.519
dot com, you know, and
he would be on the road every once
569
00:38:51.519 --> 00:38:53.719
in a while doing interviews and stuff
like that. He was working under Joey
570
00:38:53.719 --> 00:38:59.440
Styles at the time, because Styles
had taken over the dot com responsibilities and
571
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:02.480
and and he's still there. So
he would occasionally kind of like, you
572
00:39:02.519 --> 00:39:06.440
know, want to know what's on
my mind and stuff, so that he
573
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:09.880
could organize his flow around what's coming
up. So like, if if you
574
00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:13.079
know, I kind of let on
that we might have a ladder match in
575
00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:15.519
the works, he could get a
bunch of ladder match clips hooked up.
576
00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:19.000
So he was really passionate about his
job. But he was, you know,
577
00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:22.280
more of an office type person,
so our schedules didn't line up at
578
00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:24.639
all. You know, I might
randomly see him from time to time,
579
00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:30.679
and you develop friendships with the writing
staff absolutely because you're not just talking wrestling
580
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:34.440
all the time. You're shooting the
crap about normal stuff. You know.
581
00:39:34.480 --> 00:39:37.199
All of us were like comic book
fans, so when Dark Knight came out
582
00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:40.199
that year, we were all really
pumping to see it and talk about it
583
00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:44.599
when you know, when it was
over. And ed Coski in particular was
584
00:39:44.639 --> 00:39:47.559
like had dis countdown in his office
where every day it was like pull off
585
00:39:47.559 --> 00:39:51.239
a sheet, you know, because
he was this really big Batman fan.
586
00:39:51.360 --> 00:39:53.119
I thought that was so cool,
you know that he would share that with
587
00:39:53.199 --> 00:39:57.159
us. But as far as I
remember, I mean, none of us
588
00:39:57.199 --> 00:40:00.199
really sat around talking about like,
yeah, do I want to do this
589
00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:05.360
when I'm forty or you know,
man, I really wish I could settle
590
00:40:05.400 --> 00:40:07.159
down. I think, like,
you know, I had those thoughts in
591
00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:14.239
my head and and my work started
to reflect that, but no one really
592
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:17.440
talked openly about that because it was
almost like, you know, once you
593
00:40:17.519 --> 00:40:22.400
cross that line, like you you're
you're dead to them, you know,
594
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:24.960
because clearly you're not. You haven't
bought in at that point. If if
595
00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:29.519
you have any doubt at all,
then you need to just go. Yeah,
596
00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:31.880
that's kind of my vibe from it
that that's interesting. Yeah, like
597
00:40:32.119 --> 00:40:38.280
just bringing it up, um could
mark you as somebody who was thinking about
598
00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:42.840
things that you're not supposed to think
about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
599
00:40:42.880 --> 00:40:45.960
exactly, exactly. Yeah, Like
you're either you're either a roaddog and
600
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:47.800
you're in it to win it and
you're in it for life, or you're
601
00:40:47.840 --> 00:40:52.800
a guy who's going to be gone
quick and you know, just based on
602
00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:54.639
some interactions, you could tell that
that happens a lot. You know,
603
00:40:54.719 --> 00:41:00.440
Like when I first got there my
first day at TV, jb L takes
604
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:04.280
out his cell phone, he takes
a picture of me, and he's like,
605
00:41:04.440 --> 00:41:06.239
you know why I'm doing that,
And I said, no, I
606
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:08.400
don't. He goes, it's so
I can remember your face when you're gone
607
00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:14.800
next month. That's very jbl Yes. Yeah, So it was just like
608
00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:16.639
you could tell that there was it
was quite a revolving door, and it
609
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:21.159
wasn't just with me, you know, like looking looking at the product now
610
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:25.519
and the last six months of you
know TV now and looking at that six
611
00:41:25.559 --> 00:41:30.480
months, we introduced a lot of
talent that didn't cut it in that short
612
00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:32.960
amount of time. I mean,
FCW was dumping guys out pretty quick.
613
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:37.159
They weren't spending the amount of time
there that they do in an next Now.
614
00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:40.199
They were coming out and they were
still kind of raw dough. So
615
00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:45.880
there were guys that we debuted and
guys who got fired within my time span.
616
00:41:51.000 --> 00:41:55.360
In twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into
the developmental system and ultimately the brand
617
00:41:55.440 --> 00:42:00.800
you see today. On the Torch
VIP podcast NXT eight years Back, we'll
618
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:06.960
be taking a weekly look at this
page in nxc's early history. Join Kelly
619
00:42:07.000 --> 00:42:10.719
Wells and me Tom Stout from PWT
Talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight
620
00:42:10.800 --> 00:42:15.559
years back to the day to track
NXT's rising talents and why they did or
621
00:42:15.679 --> 00:42:23.800
didn't work out. Exclusively for PW
Torch VIP members. Let's talk about some
622
00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:27.960
of those names who come to mind. Like the first one that comes to
623
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:30.920
mind is a Braden Walker. You
know, Yes, he came and went
624
00:42:31.000 --> 00:42:36.800
in that short stint. Ricky Ortiz
kind of came and went in that time
625
00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:40.679
frame. Man, let me think
of who else was in that group.
626
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:45.079
I remember, you know, Dusty
would come in and he would tell us
627
00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:49.320
about these guys and what he thought
about them, and and you know,
628
00:42:49.400 --> 00:42:52.199
Justin Gabriel was part of the part
of that FCW group at the time.
629
00:42:52.599 --> 00:42:57.280
Jack Swagger was in that group at
the time, and they didn't necessarily debut
630
00:42:57.320 --> 00:43:01.119
in my window, but like our
True came in right around that same time
631
00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:06.440
that we were there. I remember
sitting around for like a whole couple hours
632
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:09.280
on a Saturday when I was washing
my laundry trying to come up with a
633
00:43:09.320 --> 00:43:14.159
cool name for our Truth because he
didn't have one at a time. Paul
634
00:43:14.159 --> 00:43:16.599
Burchell kind of like came and win. It seems like in in my time
635
00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:22.639
frame, his Katie Lee Burchell came
and win in that time frame. Tiffany
636
00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:27.039
on ECW seems like she kind of
came and went in that time. Bam
637
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:31.000
Neeley debuted and then disappeared so a
lot of I mean, they were throwing
638
00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:34.400
a lot of different stuff at the
wall at the time, you know,
639
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:38.039
and it's just interesting to see how
it's changed now and how when they come
640
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:42.719
up from NXT, Like you know, when when Alistair Black comes up,
641
00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:45.039
it's not a question of if he
makes it, like it's a question of
642
00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:49.840
how long does it take him to
get to the title, whereas it's just
643
00:43:49.880 --> 00:43:52.480
not the case with these other names
I'm bringing up. I had to look
644
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:57.159
up Bam Neely. I like,
I see his picture. Now I'm a
645
00:43:57.280 --> 00:43:59.159
compete. I'm like, oh,
yeah, I kind of remember him.
646
00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:04.119
But yeah, you're right. That
was a time of introduction in turnover.
647
00:44:04.320 --> 00:44:09.320
So well, let's talk about that
when you're when wrestler is introduced to the
648
00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:15.880
show that you're writing on. What
kind of direction are are you given or
649
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:21.760
structure is there to framing that wrestler
and presenting them and writing for them from
650
00:44:21.760 --> 00:44:23.880
the perspective that you have in that
company, and what your role is like
651
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:27.440
when a new guy comes up,
do you get a sheet of paper with
652
00:44:27.480 --> 00:44:29.519
bullet points, here's what we like, here's what we're trying to do to
653
00:44:29.519 --> 00:44:30.800
get them over. Let's write something
for him. How does that work.
654
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:37.519
The one of the only ones that
I was mainly involved in was the Braden
655
00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:42.920
Walker deal, and he came in
to the writing room and sat down with
656
00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:45.840
us and we basically just kind of
all pitch things back and forth. You
657
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:50.199
know, who are you? What's
your name? Uh? You know,
658
00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:52.760
what do you do? You know
who? You know? What's your motivation?
659
00:44:53.440 --> 00:44:57.519
Okay, so you're kind of this
like lone guy that just sort of
660
00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:00.880
walks through life. And you know, so in that regard, we're all
661
00:45:00.920 --> 00:45:05.639
pretty much on board with you know
what the what the voice is supposed to
662
00:45:05.639 --> 00:45:09.639
be, and um, you know
what what his motivations are. And a
663
00:45:09.639 --> 00:45:13.920
guy like Ricky Ortiz would be more
like, okay, this is you know,
664
00:45:13.920 --> 00:45:17.840
a party guy throws out these towels, um, And that was you
665
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:22.559
know, it's pretty much it for
Ricky Ortiz, and a lot of these
666
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:25.400
guys really didn't get to talk a
whole lot. So you basically just you
667
00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:30.000
you worked, you worked your creative
off of what you'd seen so far.
668
00:45:31.039 --> 00:45:35.639
Um. I can't remember a time
where anybody said like, Okay, Paul
669
00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:39.119
Burchell, is this, this and
this so right? It was kind of
670
00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:44.159
like it was more along the lines
of Hey, we have to get to
671
00:45:44.320 --> 00:45:50.320
hear, we have to get to
Burchell versus um Bryan Hendricks. So you
672
00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:52.719
got three weeks give me your best. And that was how the how the
673
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:58.159
process worked. We didn't really touch
on it before, but at least when
674
00:45:58.199 --> 00:46:02.320
I was there. We would all
the whole show as though we were Brian
675
00:46:02.559 --> 00:46:07.679
or we were ED, and we
would turn those into Brian or Ed as
676
00:46:07.719 --> 00:46:10.719
our segments, and we would pitch
the whole shows open. Is it a
677
00:46:10.760 --> 00:46:14.800
cold? Open? Is there a
graphic? What happens? Who comes out?
678
00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:17.760
Does their music interrupt? You know? When you say we would write
679
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:21.519
the whole show, I mean each
writer wrote a separate show, or collectively,
680
00:46:21.519 --> 00:46:23.440
you guys got together and wrote a
whole show to present. Yeah,
681
00:46:23.719 --> 00:46:29.480
So each writer would write their own
version of next week's Raw or next week's
682
00:46:29.519 --> 00:46:31.760
back down, and then we would
turn that in. So I had eleven
683
00:46:31.840 --> 00:46:37.599
segments because Raw was you know,
two hours at the time. I don't
684
00:46:37.639 --> 00:46:43.519
wish the thing upon anybody, yea. So we would turn that in and
685
00:46:43.559 --> 00:46:45.880
it would be like, Okay,
you know, here's how I established my
686
00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:49.880
main event in segment one, and
then here's what we're doing in the crossover
687
00:46:49.920 --> 00:46:52.559
it's going to be a Scena promo. He's gonna say A B and C.
688
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:58.960
And then here's the main event,
here's the finish. I mean yeah,
689
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:04.480
really just booking it out completely as
though we were we were the booker
690
00:47:05.159 --> 00:47:08.239
who comes out, who says what
you know, the swerves, all of
691
00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:14.840
that, and then Brian would work
with all of our material and kind of
692
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:20.000
Frankenstein something together with his own ideas
and his own agendas that he knew that
693
00:47:20.039 --> 00:47:22.719
he had to push and with guys
that he knew that he had to get
694
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:27.039
hot for certain stuff that we might
not be privy to at the time.
695
00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:30.880
I mean, it was it was
all very open. There was never any
696
00:47:30.920 --> 00:47:34.559
time where something happened and I was
like, oh wow, yeah, I
697
00:47:34.599 --> 00:47:37.199
feel like I was left in the
dark about that. We all knew.
698
00:47:37.239 --> 00:47:40.840
I mean with aside from like what
was what happened in the draft, we
699
00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:46.360
all learned about a lot of that
stuff the day of especially JR. Who
700
00:47:46.400 --> 00:47:50.079
you know, he didn't he was
that's a shoot and he did not know
701
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:54.320
that he was going to smack down
the triple h did. So there was
702
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:59.519
there was never anything like that where
it was like I would write something and
703
00:47:59.559 --> 00:48:00.960
they would say no, no,
no, no, okay, don't do
704
00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:05.039
that because he's not going to be
here in six months or anything like that.
705
00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:09.840
Yeah, we were all encouraged to
pitch in ways that were exciting,
706
00:48:10.119 --> 00:48:15.199
and you know, slightly like I
would. I would take that opportunity to
707
00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:17.159
pitch stuff that that made sense.
But I also knew that I was kind
708
00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:22.280
of an outlier, so I would
take some chances here and there with stuff
709
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:25.320
that you know, might be a
little bit past the envelope, not so
710
00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:30.079
much in like a PG. Thirteen
setting, but just like, well that's
711
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:32.760
kind of a zany story. You
know, maybe maybe they won't buy that,
712
00:48:32.840 --> 00:48:36.840
but if they do, then I'll
know it's mine, you know.
713
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:39.400
So that was kind of a neat
part about that is that everybody had kind
714
00:48:39.400 --> 00:48:43.639
of an equal voice, at least
until you turned in your paper, you
715
00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:45.440
know, to the teacher at the
end of the day, and then the
716
00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:49.320
raw script comes out and you see
if anything that you wrote and made it.
717
00:48:55.440 --> 00:49:00.559
Longing for some nostalgia or maybe you
want to learn some rest in history,
718
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:05.440
don't miss the Nineties pass cast every
Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast
719
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:09.519
Feed. Alex and Patrick will transport
you thirty years into the past by taking
720
00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:15.119
you through the Torch issue from that
very week, follow news from the WWF
721
00:49:15.119 --> 00:49:19.840
and WCW and all the happenings from
across the wrestling industry in real time as
722
00:49:19.880 --> 00:49:23.639
The Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's the nineties. Passcasts every Friday
723
00:49:23.679 --> 00:49:43.480
on the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. What was your perception or idea of
724
00:49:43.519 --> 00:49:50.079
how WWBTV got written before you got
there and how much did the process in
725
00:49:50.199 --> 00:49:54.280
reality differ from that. I assume
that the writing team was a lot smaller
726
00:49:54.480 --> 00:49:58.760
than I thought. You're going to
say smarter and I was like, wow,
727
00:49:58.920 --> 00:50:01.960
that's a day. He drew off
the SUMA and I was like,
728
00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:05.880
wow, where are we going here? Hi? Good? No, No.
729
00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:08.559
I really assumed that it would be
more like, you know, four
730
00:50:08.679 --> 00:50:14.039
or five guys, Vince and a
couple of dudes who you know got the
731
00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:15.639
coffee and made the copies. And
I was going to be the coffee copy
732
00:50:15.719 --> 00:50:19.639
guy. Um, that was what
I thought. You know. I got
733
00:50:19.639 --> 00:50:22.960
there and it was more like a
team of geez fifteen sixteen something like that.
734
00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:25.920
I mean, there were there were
a lot of us um, and
735
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:30.360
then we added onto the team as
we win when they brought in they brought
736
00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:36.840
in Freddie Prince and uh, Freddie's
friend was that what he's known as No,
737
00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:38.880
Okay, he had a he had
a name and I can't remember it
738
00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:44.199
right now because he just told us
that he goes by Bonds or Base something
739
00:50:44.239 --> 00:50:46.360
like that, so that was that
was just his name, but it was
740
00:50:47.199 --> 00:50:51.559
don't get me wrong, Like the
guy definitely got the job because he knew
741
00:50:51.559 --> 00:50:53.760
Freddie. But he absolutely pulled his
weight. And I think a lot of
742
00:50:53.840 --> 00:50:58.320
us expected that he would just kind
of be there to be that fan and
743
00:50:58.599 --> 00:51:01.880
and really kind of just be starstruck. But he absolutely Both of those guys
744
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:06.519
worked their asses off and really pulled
their own weight contributed a lot of really
745
00:51:06.559 --> 00:51:08.880
good ideas. But I never dreamed
that, you know, the writing team
746
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:13.400
would be twenty people, you know, contributing to this, and that each
747
00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:16.840
each one of the head writers would
have to sift through seven or eight,
748
00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:22.800
you know, like twelve page versions
of raw and and try to pick out
749
00:51:22.119 --> 00:51:28.960
stuff that's good so that we all
feel creatively justified and encouraged and patted on
750
00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:31.960
the back, which is uh,
you know, I guess not all of
751
00:51:32.039 --> 00:51:36.760
us needed that. Some of us
did, some of us didn't. But
752
00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:38.639
it's it's a it's a task,
you know, to kind of sift through
753
00:51:38.679 --> 00:51:40.960
all of that and try to keep
it straight in your head, but then
754
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:45.159
also remember what you've got cooking on
the back burner in your own mind as
755
00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:47.639
far as where you need to be, and you know, what's what's the
756
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:53.679
main event of WrestleMania twenty five and
how do we keep from destroying that in
757
00:51:53.840 --> 00:51:58.440
these twelve months because like the day
one, I get there and there's you
758
00:51:58.480 --> 00:52:02.199
know, everybody's laid out there Solomania
twenty five, dream cards and top main
759
00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:07.440
event on everybody's seen a Batista,
you know, and then it's like we
760
00:52:07.480 --> 00:52:10.360
get to Great American Bash and people
are talking about, let's do Scena Batista.
761
00:52:10.880 --> 00:52:15.599
It actually ended up happening in Summers
Slam. It's just like like I
762
00:52:15.679 --> 00:52:17.320
was like, well, wait,
we can't do that. That's the plan,
763
00:52:17.559 --> 00:52:21.239
you know, that's we're doing that. And then it's like, well,
764
00:52:21.639 --> 00:52:22.760
you know the edic comes down from
the top, Well, when we
765
00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:25.199
do it the second time, it'll
be for the title, so it'll be
766
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:29.320
different. And it was just like, you know, you had the you
767
00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:31.559
try to make these long term arts, but then somebody would get hurt or
768
00:52:31.920 --> 00:52:37.320
something would happen and it would all
fall apart and you were just like it
769
00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:40.239
was. It was a constant kind
of like like hurry up to fall behind
770
00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:44.920
kind of thing. Well, when
you're writing the TV shows with the team,
771
00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:51.079
and this is something that traditionalists and
different types of fans have curiosity about,
772
00:52:51.079 --> 00:52:53.119
if not issues with, is how
much did you feel that you and
773
00:52:53.159 --> 00:52:58.119
the writing team were writing a TV
show because you talk about, well,
774
00:52:58.119 --> 00:53:00.679
you know, we're not just writing
a TV show too, that's self contained.
775
00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:04.719
We've got to think about the payoff
at the end, and that's different
776
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:08.800
than writing It's somewhat similar and somewhat
different than writing a weekly series, you
777
00:53:08.840 --> 00:53:12.440
know, a scripted drama or something
like that. Yes, there's a climax
778
00:53:12.480 --> 00:53:15.840
to a season and that kind of
thing, so that's similar, but you're
779
00:53:15.840 --> 00:53:21.440
trying to keep an eye on all
these other revenue sources and so when you
780
00:53:21.480 --> 00:53:23.039
look at it now and when you
look at it then, and if there's
781
00:53:23.039 --> 00:53:29.320
differences, explain that. Did you
see yourself collectively as wrestling bookers who had
782
00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:34.400
a TV show that helped you book
matches in promote matches, or did you
783
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:37.880
see yourself as TV writers with kind
of a perpheral eye on Oh, that's
784
00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:42.679
right, we're writing a TV show, but ultimately we make money when these
785
00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:45.920
wrestlers fight each other at arenas on
weekends, and we always have to have
786
00:53:45.960 --> 00:53:50.239
our eye on that pay per view. And so is there sort of drawing
787
00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:54.159
from wrestling booking history more or how
to write a TV show more? Because
788
00:53:54.199 --> 00:53:57.840
this is sports entertainment, not pro
wrestling, So that kind of makes sense
789
00:53:57.880 --> 00:54:00.639
what I'm asking. Yeah, I
think I get the question, and I'll
790
00:54:00.679 --> 00:54:07.079
try not to stumble and answering it. I always looked at it more as
791
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:12.679
as we're bookers and we're trying to
make these matches exciting, and a lot
792
00:54:12.679 --> 00:54:15.440
of the time we would have three, four, six weeks out where we
793
00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:19.280
wanted to end up. We would
work with these grids a lot. That
794
00:54:19.320 --> 00:54:23.679
would help us kind of storyboard out
things and tent pole things to remember,
795
00:54:23.719 --> 00:54:27.760
you know, where we've been,
what happened, how long ago that was.
796
00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:31.039
We would use those for our story
notes that we would put into the
797
00:54:31.159 --> 00:54:35.039
into the scripts for the commentary team
we'd have. Each match would have a
798
00:54:35.079 --> 00:54:37.800
little box, you know. This
was one of the main functions of the
799
00:54:37.800 --> 00:54:43.039
writer assistant in The scripting format was
we'd have a box on the side of
800
00:54:43.079 --> 00:54:47.000
each match and have four or five
bullet points. You know, this guy,
801
00:54:47.159 --> 00:54:52.840
you know, Matt Hardy is a
you know, two time former US
802
00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:57.079
champion or something like that. I
remember coming up with one stat one time
803
00:54:57.119 --> 00:54:59.559
where it was it was a fatal
four way going on and there were like
804
00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:04.079
fifty some odd championships all told between
the four guys, you know, and
805
00:55:04.159 --> 00:55:06.639
put that in there and JR.
Dropped that. So that was like one
806
00:55:06.639 --> 00:55:10.039
of my little oh that's my thing. But I looked at it more as
807
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:15.440
as we booked. We booked the
territory in the sense of, this is
808
00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:20.119
what we want to happen. These
are the matches that we feel are exciting.
809
00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:25.280
Now, why are they fighting or
what's what's an interesting reason that hasn't
810
00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:30.599
been done you know, maybe ever
if you're super creative or just not in
811
00:55:30.639 --> 00:55:35.639
a long time. And then you
also have to fall into certain certain confines
812
00:55:35.719 --> 00:55:38.400
of well, we can't do that
because of this, this and this or
813
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:44.239
you know they did that in WCW
back in ninety two, and so we're
814
00:55:44.239 --> 00:55:46.320
not going to do that, you
know, something along that line. So
815
00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:50.000
you might come up with a really
good idea and not realize why you like
816
00:55:50.079 --> 00:55:52.239
it so much. It's because it
already happened somewhere back in your childhood.
817
00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:57.480
Then it's it exists in your memory
bank, but it's not there. I
818
00:55:57.679 --> 00:56:01.480
never wrote with the mindset of being
a TV writer because I wasn't privy to
819
00:56:01.519 --> 00:56:07.199
those conversations on you know, we
have KFC coming on as a partner,
820
00:56:07.199 --> 00:56:09.800
and we need to have we need
to you know, drop references to Chicken
821
00:56:09.920 --> 00:56:15.079
into this match, you know.
Yeah. So I would never write in
822
00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:20.320
like a like a Kane versus versus
a Chicken kind of match, because that
823
00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:23.480
wasn't where I was supposed to be. I was supposed to be focused primarily
824
00:56:23.559 --> 00:56:28.639
on you know, main event stuff, and then you would get little assignments,
825
00:56:28.679 --> 00:56:30.920
which was really cool, you know, where they would say to you,
826
00:56:30.840 --> 00:56:35.559
Okay, Jason, you know,
why don't you book out the next
827
00:56:36.159 --> 00:56:39.519
two months of TV for these three
talents, or book out the next three
828
00:56:39.559 --> 00:56:44.920
months of talent for for you know, the women's division, something like that.
829
00:56:45.199 --> 00:56:47.119
And you would lay out this massive
story arc and you'd bring it to
830
00:56:47.159 --> 00:56:50.960
them and uh, you know,
maybe they like parts of it, maybe
831
00:56:50.960 --> 00:56:52.800
it helped spur them in an idea. And when I say them, I
832
00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:58.920
mean, you know the brain trust
sort of you know Brian and Dave Kapoor
833
00:56:59.679 --> 00:57:01.920
who runget Sing for those who don't
know, And he was still working as
834
00:57:02.000 --> 00:57:07.559
runget Sing at the time, so
he was kind of pulling double Yeah,
835
00:57:07.599 --> 00:57:12.320
exactly, call these mouthpiece and uh
and you know Bruce Pritchard's there, He's
836
00:57:12.440 --> 00:57:16.960
chiming in with his ideas and stuff, and uh, you know Michael Hayes.
837
00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:21.000
I mean it was it was a
really animated group and I mean,
838
00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:23.480
you laugh your ass off just kind
of hanging around those guys because they've seen
839
00:57:23.559 --> 00:57:29.519
so much and they're they're really really
funny, and they're not afraid to kind
840
00:57:29.519 --> 00:57:32.840
of to tell you that an idea
is good or take a dump all over
841
00:57:32.920 --> 00:57:37.159
it, you know, whichever they
feel is appropriate. And I appreciated that
842
00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:40.360
honesty. But to I mean get
back to the question in a super long
843
00:57:40.400 --> 00:57:45.800
winded format. I always looked at
at our role as the bookers who would
844
00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:49.320
say, you know, Guy A
fights Guy B because of reason, see
845
00:57:49.840 --> 00:57:52.679
here's how it ends, here's where
you go next week, and so on,
846
00:57:52.800 --> 00:57:55.199
and that was kind of you develop
your characters through that. So you
847
00:57:55.239 --> 00:57:59.920
do have a long term arc,
and you have an idea of we want
848
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:02.760
to make this guy more sinister,
and he's going to do these things to
849
00:58:02.840 --> 00:58:07.599
become more sinisters so that we can
identify with his turn and we understand.
850
00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:12.960
Now you know that he's a he's
a true heel because he's doing these horrible
851
00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:15.519
things, but he thinks he's right
because of this stuff that happened two months
852
00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:20.360
ago. And when you can pay
that stuff off as a storyteller, you
853
00:58:20.480 --> 00:58:23.559
feel great. But I never thought
of myself as like, I'm writing episodes
854
00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:27.920
of you know, Lost or whatever, and I have to get I have
855
00:58:28.000 --> 00:58:30.599
to write twelve episodes and then have
this massive payoff. I mean, the
856
00:58:30.639 --> 00:58:35.199
payoff is always the pay per view, but that's not the end in the
857
00:58:35.199 --> 00:58:38.480
beginning for every storyline that you're working
with. So some arcs are like kind
858
00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:45.320
of overlapping each other. Some guys
are working with multiple people that whole summer,
859
00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:47.039
you know, Edge was working mainly
with Undertaker, but he still had
860
00:58:47.039 --> 00:58:51.679
all these other little feuds on the
side, Like he had his whole arc
861
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:55.679
with Vicky Guerrero falling apart and Alicia
Fox coming in, and then at the
862
00:58:55.719 --> 00:58:59.920
same time Edge is trying to be
a spokesperson for Slim Jim and he's trying
863
00:58:59.920 --> 00:59:02.960
to get Hawkins and Rider over,
and you know, he has all these
864
00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:07.119
other things that are going on.
So in my mind, I never wrote
865
00:59:07.159 --> 00:59:09.239
it as in, you know,
where's Edge going to be in in twelve
866
00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:12.360
months? It was more like,
where is Edge going to be in a
867
00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:15.079
month? And then where is he
at after that? And where he's after
868
00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:16.920
that? And why does he care? Why is he mad? You know,
869
00:59:17.000 --> 00:59:20.079
why is he happy? Does he
want the title? Or does he
870
00:59:20.119 --> 00:59:22.559
just want to beat Undertaker? You
know, like those are questions that I
871
00:59:22.599 --> 00:59:28.039
would ask myself to try to put
myself in that character's headspace and come up
872
00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:30.239
with something that I could put on
a sheet of paper and say this is
873
00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:35.519
where I want to go, versus
just having this idea that I can't communicate.
874
00:59:38.079 --> 00:59:43.159
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me Jason Powell hosts
875
00:59:43.199 --> 00:59:46.079
him to three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom
podcast. Each week, he'll hear the
876
00:59:46.119 --> 00:59:50.559
latest news and analysis for me and
my team at pro Wrestling dot Net along
877
00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:53.960
with other pro wrestling media members,
plus The Pro Wrestling Boom podcast features long
878
00:59:54.039 --> 00:59:59.199
form interviews with notable names in the
pro wrestling industry, subscribe an it team
879
00:59:59.280 --> 01:00:02.639
or Stitcher, downcast and all your
favorite secondary apps, or visit as directly
880
01:00:02.679 --> 01:00:15.400
at pwboom dot com. Once again, that's pwboom dot com. No going
881
01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:16.360
back to you said, you know, had an ideal that was done the
882
01:00:16.440 --> 01:00:22.360
w W ninety two that kind of
thing. I'm curious with you and the
883
01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:27.559
writers at all the levels of the
writing team and even Vince McMahon and Pritchard
884
01:00:27.559 --> 01:00:34.360
and Hayes. Was was history revered? Like you would find moments where you
885
01:00:34.360 --> 01:00:37.679
would be judged if you didn't know
about something that happened in the nineties or
886
01:00:37.719 --> 01:00:40.320
eighties or the seventies, or know
who a wrestler was, or in talk
887
01:00:40.360 --> 01:00:44.480
about angles, did you go,
hey, remember when Terry Funk did this
888
01:00:44.639 --> 01:00:49.840
and or Bill Watts did that and
that worked or the Minar freebirdview this,
889
01:00:49.920 --> 01:00:52.079
like were there references to history and
was this a group of people who just
890
01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:57.360
had a passion or on the flip
side, was history sort of scorned?
891
01:00:57.519 --> 01:01:01.320
Like Vince doesn't like that because we're
doing something different. Wink wink or no
892
01:01:01.400 --> 01:01:04.880
wink, you know, like we're
not in that business. We're in a
893
01:01:04.920 --> 01:01:07.400
new business and we're doing this because
I still think of that moment when Vince
894
01:01:07.440 --> 01:01:12.719
looked at Steve Austin on the Stone
Gold podcast on WWW Network a few years
895
01:01:12.719 --> 01:01:15.119
ago, and he just looked at
Steve and said, things are different now
896
01:01:15.119 --> 01:01:17.719
than when you were there. We're
doing sports entertainment. We're a publicly traded
897
01:01:17.760 --> 01:01:22.880
company. And there is that feeling
like that Vince creates maybe almost an artificial,
898
01:01:23.400 --> 01:01:29.440
unnecessary distance from the legacy and history
of his industry, at least selectively,
899
01:01:29.480 --> 01:01:32.760
not on Hall of Fame Weekend but
otherwise. So talk about that as
900
01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:37.199
somebody who knew wrestling, how much
did the other staff no wrestling? And
901
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:42.480
talk about it. I feel like
a lot of that was more sort of
902
01:01:42.519 --> 01:01:46.119
a reverent nostalgia that we had for
that kind of stuff. You know,
903
01:01:46.199 --> 01:01:50.639
we would kind of pitch it.
We'd pitch stuff like, you know,
904
01:01:50.719 --> 01:01:53.039
something were to happen and you'd say, you know, kind of like hey,
905
01:01:53.079 --> 01:01:58.000
do you remember when earthquake squashed Damien
and like you remember how everybody was
906
01:01:58.039 --> 01:02:00.519
so upset about that. Yeah,
we to do something like that, you
907
01:02:00.559 --> 01:02:05.760
know, and but not that and
it was very particular that you don't,
908
01:02:06.480 --> 01:02:09.920
you know, we didn't want to
replay our greatest hits or fall back on
909
01:02:10.000 --> 01:02:17.320
things like that. We would have
a list of gimmick matches and like run
910
01:02:17.400 --> 01:02:21.840
ins and all of that. How
like we would go through I remember putting
911
01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:27.280
together one list one time for Brian
and it was give me the last twelve
912
01:02:28.039 --> 01:02:30.440
gosh, what was it, last
six months or something like that of how
913
01:02:30.559 --> 01:02:35.760
Raw went off the air, because
we want to do something different than what
914
01:02:35.800 --> 01:02:38.559
we've ever done in that time frame, so we would keep we'd keep like
915
01:02:38.599 --> 01:02:42.280
a table of Okay, this is
the last time we did a last man's
916
01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:45.000
standing match, this is the last
time we did a ladder match. And
917
01:02:45.039 --> 01:02:47.440
you would have certain kind of cooldown
periods between there and there, and there
918
01:02:47.519 --> 01:02:52.480
wasn't like a written rule book that
said you could only do you know,
919
01:02:52.559 --> 01:02:54.239
one first Blood match a year or
anything like that. But you would look
920
01:02:54.239 --> 01:02:58.960
back and it would seem like,
Okay, that's a cool idea, but
921
01:02:59.039 --> 01:03:00.599
then you just did one kind of
two and a half months ago or something,
922
01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:04.840
and then it's not so cool anymore
because the novelty hasn't had time to
923
01:03:04.960 --> 01:03:08.480
sort of rebuild. Yeah, I
love that, That's that's cool, But
924
01:03:08.599 --> 01:03:14.039
that was on your on the radar
and the effort was made to be creative
925
01:03:14.079 --> 01:03:17.920
and break from habits, I guess, or being in a rut or just
926
01:03:17.960 --> 01:03:22.639
bringing something back you sort of forgot
again done in a while. Yeah,
927
01:03:22.679 --> 01:03:25.039
So that was one of my very
first assignments, that Raw thing that I
928
01:03:25.079 --> 01:03:30.280
brought up to you because right right
when Brian came in that Wednesday, he
929
01:03:30.440 --> 01:03:34.360
was like, I've got an idea
for something to do next week on RAW
930
01:03:35.199 --> 01:03:37.840
or the week after on Raw,
because the first week I was there,
931
01:03:37.760 --> 01:03:40.920
that was the week that they did
King of the Ring and Regal went over
932
01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:45.960
and had this massive eight man like
basically a who's who of WW at the
933
01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:49.960
time was in this main event.
So it was that was kind of a
934
01:03:50.360 --> 01:03:52.840
one of those starstruck moments where it's
like, you know, my gosh,
935
01:03:52.880 --> 01:03:57.960
like I'm backstage, I'm watching this
match, you know, just outside of
936
01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:01.559
the gorilla position, and it's you
know, the eight biggest names in the
937
01:04:01.599 --> 01:04:04.280
business right now, you know,
just doing their thing. You know.
938
01:04:04.400 --> 01:04:06.559
It was cool. It was it
was like that was like one of those
939
01:04:06.599 --> 01:04:10.639
times like yeah, you know,
like I'm supposed to be here and this
940
01:04:10.719 --> 01:04:14.320
is good. But what he wanted
to know was how did Rock go off
941
01:04:14.320 --> 01:04:18.119
the air, because he wanted to
do this angle with Regal basically like pulling
942
01:04:18.159 --> 01:04:21.280
the plug in the production truck the
next week, and he just wanted to
943
01:04:21.320 --> 01:04:24.760
know, like, when's the last
time we went off the air without a
944
01:04:24.920 --> 01:04:30.400
match without you know, guy A
beats Guy B celebrates off the air,
945
01:04:30.639 --> 01:04:32.880
you know that kind of thing,
and ended up being one of the more
946
01:04:32.920 --> 01:04:36.199
memorable moments, I mean for a
lot of people in that time frame.
947
01:04:36.239 --> 01:04:40.079
You go back, like the message
boards and people still kind of talk about
948
01:04:40.079 --> 01:04:42.679
it. You remember that time that
Regal went to the truck and he like
949
01:04:43.239 --> 01:04:45.559
choked the director and pulled the plug
out, and the showing off the air.
950
01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:48.639
It's like, yeah, I do
that's that's kind of cool. So
951
01:04:48.679 --> 01:04:53.280
that was one of those things where
it was like there was always there was
952
01:04:53.320 --> 01:04:58.119
always an emphasis on doing something new
or spending something in a new way,
953
01:04:59.159 --> 01:05:03.239
but behind the scenes, there was
an absolute reverence for Yeah, that guy
954
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:06.519
right there, that guy's a little
bit Rick Rude, He's a little bit
955
01:05:06.599 --> 01:05:10.920
Jake the snake, you know,
and you kind of describe him to other
956
01:05:10.960 --> 01:05:14.239
people in that way so that they
could instantly kind of cling on to what
957
01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:16.639
you were, you know, where
you wanted to go with that character.
958
01:05:17.039 --> 01:05:20.000
Yeah, Dean Ever, a little
Brian Pillman, a little Ronnie Piper,
959
01:05:20.360 --> 01:05:25.119
you know like that, Yeah,
exactly, exactly, Yeah, trying to
960
01:05:25.119 --> 01:05:28.320
figure out what somebody is and what
we should go with them and what they
961
01:05:28.320 --> 01:05:31.159
remind you of. Yeah, because
we all know like how those guys made
962
01:05:31.239 --> 01:05:34.079
us feel, you know, and
we were all familiar with the character.
963
01:05:34.199 --> 01:05:38.440
It's like required reading, you know. But there was never a time that
964
01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:42.039
I encountered somebody and they were like, oh, you know you you never
965
01:05:42.119 --> 01:05:47.760
saw you never saw Jared or Gerald
Brisco you know, tap out the iron
966
01:05:47.800 --> 01:05:51.000
sheet or whatever, you know,
like there was there was never anything like
967
01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:54.360
that. If you knew about it, you could find the right circle and
968
01:05:54.400 --> 01:05:56.880
you could you could talk about it
and have a good time because it was
969
01:05:56.920 --> 01:06:00.320
always time for that. But it
wasn't you know, no one ever looked
970
01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:03.039
down on you. Because as long
as you knew the current product and you
971
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:08.519
had a good understanding of what was
going on, where where we've been in
972
01:06:08.559 --> 01:06:12.599
a broad sense, and where we're
going in a broad sense, there was
973
01:06:12.639 --> 01:06:15.719
never any disrespect that I saw from
anything like that. All Right, believe
974
01:06:15.719 --> 01:06:18.400
it or not, we're just getting
started. So there's a whole other hour
975
01:06:18.440 --> 01:06:23.440
of this in part two next week, so join us next week here I
976
01:06:23.519 --> 01:06:27.880
Podcast one for the next edition of
Interview Friday of the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling
977
01:06:27.880 --> 01:06:32.079
Podcast, and coming up as this
conversation with x WWE creative team member Jason
978
01:06:32.159 --> 01:06:35.920
Allen continues next week, we're going
to talk about Vince McMahon. We're gonna
979
01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:40.199
talk about why he didn't stay you
know what, what did not work out,
980
01:06:40.199 --> 01:06:43.559
why did he only stay with WWE
for six months, and the circumstances
981
01:06:43.599 --> 01:06:46.000
of his departure. We'll talk about
some of his favorite memories, working with
982
01:06:46.039 --> 01:06:49.760
some wrestlers who were fun to work
with and others who weren't. We'll talk
983
01:06:49.760 --> 01:06:55.920
about his thoughts on John Cena and
some fascinating details on the reaction to John
984
01:06:55.920 --> 01:07:00.239
Cena writing poopy on JBL's limousine.
Also a story about the horn on the
985
01:07:00.239 --> 01:07:03.039
limousine that'll have you shaking your head
a little bit. Certainly Jason was and
986
01:07:03.400 --> 01:07:08.079
much more is It's It's a lot
of fun topics yet to get to,
987
01:07:08.400 --> 01:07:12.000
so be sure to tune in next
week as Jason Allen and I continue our
988
01:07:12.039 --> 01:07:15.519
conversation about his time in WWE.
I'll also ask him about what jumps out
989
01:07:15.519 --> 01:07:18.920
to him when he watches a product
now ten years later, what seems different,
990
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:24.000
what surprised him about where WWWE has
gone in the last ten years,
991
01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:28.280
and much more. We also have
our Thursday Flightship here at podcast one drivers
992
01:07:28.280 --> 01:07:30.960
only, and that'll do it for
me for today. So follow me on
993
01:07:30.960 --> 01:07:33.840
social media at the Wade Keller that's
at the Wade Keller and follow our brand
994
01:07:33.840 --> 01:07:39.920
at PW torch. Set your alarm
on Twitter click that little bell to get
995
01:07:39.920 --> 01:07:44.000
alerts on the at PW torch account
and you'll know when we post the new
996
01:07:44.039 --> 01:07:46.800
audio show and when we post new
articles. And then on Facebook you can
997
01:07:46.840 --> 01:07:51.840
friend me at Facebook dot com slash
Wade Keller Torch and you can like our
998
01:07:51.840 --> 01:07:58.320
brand on Facebook at Facebook dot com
slash p W Torch. Don't forget if
999
01:07:58.320 --> 01:08:00.280
you have a question about Raw or
SmackDown, or just a comment you want
1000
01:08:00.360 --> 01:08:02.760
us to read on the air following
Ron SmackDown, or if you have a
1001
01:08:02.840 --> 01:08:08.000
question for the Thursday Flagship, be
sure to get those questions in by midday
1002
01:08:08.039 --> 01:08:13.239
Wednesday because we usually record after that. It is Wade Keller Podcast at pewtorch
1003
01:08:13.320 --> 01:08:18.359
dot com. That's Wade Keller Podcast
at peakwtorch dot com and if you attend
1004
01:08:18.359 --> 01:08:21.640
a live event this weekend or anytime
in the future, please send us results
1005
01:08:21.680 --> 01:08:27.319
of the show. Type up a
report and send it into pwtorch at peakwtorch
1006
01:08:27.399 --> 01:08:31.239
dot com. Just list the state
in the city, approximate attendance. Helpful
1007
01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:34.079
was a building gives your best shot
at that and then number the matches and
1008
01:08:34.079 --> 01:08:36.359
tell us who pee who and how
and what you thought of the match and
1009
01:08:36.399 --> 01:08:42.680
how the crowd reacted. You can
find the format examples at petwtorch dot com.
1010
01:08:43.079 --> 01:08:45.359
Just click on the results category tab
to look at the format if you're
1011
01:08:45.359 --> 01:08:47.800
curious and want to follow along on
that. But if you do attend a
1012
01:08:47.840 --> 01:08:51.439
live event, help us tell everybody
else about your experience and what's going on
1013
01:08:51.600 --> 01:08:57.039
at non televised events for WWE and
otherwise. It applies to ROH, PWG,
1014
01:08:57.479 --> 01:09:00.279
European nd shows, everything, any
progressing event. We want to hear
1015
01:09:00.319 --> 01:09:03.840
from you, and we'll publish the
results on the website and use that information
1016
01:09:03.880 --> 01:09:09.039
to make us a little more informed
when we talk about the product and WWWE
1017
01:09:09.319 --> 01:09:13.920
and all of pro wrestling here on
the Weight Keller Progressing Podcast. So that
1018
01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:16.600
is your assignment If you tend to
live events, send us results Pwtorch atpwtorch
1019
01:09:16.640 --> 01:09:19.960
dot com. If you don't attend
a live event, well check out other
1020
01:09:20.000 --> 01:09:25.600
people's reports at pwtorch dot com and
find out what's going on new updates every
1021
01:09:25.640 --> 01:09:29.279
single day at pwtorch dot com.
If you want to know what the ratings
1022
01:09:29.319 --> 01:09:32.600
were for Ron SmackDown, the best
metrics to put everything in perspective are on
1023
01:09:32.640 --> 01:09:36.600
my reports that I type up covering
Ron SmackDown ratings. That's just one of
1024
01:09:36.800 --> 01:09:42.239
many many exclusive features you'll find at
pwtorch dot com that you won't find anywhere
1025
01:09:42.319 --> 01:09:45.359
else. Also check out our sister
site, mmatorch dot com and keep up
1026
01:09:45.399 --> 01:09:54.920
with written recaps of wrestling personality hosted
podcasts at pwpodcasts dot com. Every day
1027
01:09:55.279 --> 01:09:58.840
check out pwpodcast dot com to read
up on podcasts you might not have time
1028
01:09:58.880 --> 01:10:01.159
to listen to, or to help
you which one to listen to next.
1029
01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:06.439
That's pwpodcast dot com. We're always
looking for new volunteers to help us out
1030
01:10:06.479 --> 01:10:12.119
at Pwtorch, MMA Torch, and
PW podcast dot com. If you're interested
1031
01:10:12.119 --> 01:10:16.399
in contributing to mmatorch dot com or
PW podcast dot com. We're looking for
1032
01:10:16.439 --> 01:10:19.319
volunteers all the time to help us
round out our coverage. You can send
1033
01:10:19.359 --> 01:10:21.760
me an email and let me know
that you're interested in volunteering. Tell me
1034
01:10:21.920 --> 01:10:26.680
which side it's for and what you're
interested in doing, and we will get
1035
01:10:26.720 --> 01:10:30.399
back to you the email adder so
that is Weightkeeller Podcast at pwtorch dot com.
1036
01:10:30.399 --> 01:10:33.279
Just put volunteer on the subject line
and I'll get back to you.
1037
01:10:33.520 --> 01:10:39.800
All right, Thanks everybody, and
until next time. For VT members that'll
1038
01:10:39.800 --> 01:10:43.479
be anytime and for not VD members
that'll be next week after Raw. This
1039
01:10:43.640 --> 01:10:58.960
is Weightkeller. Thank you for listening
and synops need an extra dose of positivity
1040
01:10:58.960 --> 01:11:02.680
and you're wrestling pods will come join
me, Alan Foelle over in the Progress
1041
01:11:02.720 --> 01:11:08.840
Paradise at pot Torch vip as we
bask on the bright side of wrestling and
1042
01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:12.800
focus on some of the great matches
and shows from around the world, be
1043
01:11:12.920 --> 01:11:16.560
at the US, Japan, Europe
or Mexico. There's always a place for
1044
01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:20.840
wrestlings past in the Paradise too,
and we've done fun historical shows such as
1045
01:11:20.840 --> 01:11:27.319
the We love Lyger series celebrating the
glorious career of Juician Thunder Lyger and our
1046
01:11:27.399 --> 01:11:30.760
I was there when shows where our
guests will join me to talk about a
1047
01:11:30.800 --> 01:11:34.079
classic bout that they were in attendance
for. We love variety and you can
1048
01:11:34.159 --> 01:11:41.000
expect lots of it at the Progress
Paradise. Detailed PWF Torch VIP subscription information
1049
01:11:41.239 --> 01:11:45.399
and a list of all the VIP
benefits is available at pwe Torch vipinfo dot
1050
01:11:45.439 --> 01:11:50.760
com. And yes, all VIP
podcasts are compatible with popular podcast apps on
1051
01:11:50.800 --> 01:11:56.359
iPhone and Android devices, or you
can stream them directly from our ad free
1052
01:11:56.640 --> 01:12:11.520
VIP mobile site. See You in
the Paradise Now podcast one brings you the
1053
01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:15.239
Wave Keller Pro Wrestling podcast. It's
time for Keller's interview with one of pro
1054
01:12:15.319 --> 01:12:26.640
Wrestling's newsmakers. So Jason, big
picture in terms of your job and how
1055
01:12:26.680 --> 01:12:30.920
it evolved during your roughly six months
there. How did your duties change from
1056
01:12:30.960 --> 01:12:33.560
that the first day, the first
week, the first month as you went
1057
01:12:33.600 --> 01:12:41.159
on and was part of your decision
to leave just lifestyle or was it seeing
1058
01:12:41.199 --> 01:12:48.079
that there was a limit to your
growth because of the seniority level and certain
1059
01:12:48.119 --> 01:12:53.680
people and you didn't see a path
to be more fulfilled on the professional end
1060
01:12:53.680 --> 01:12:57.800
of thing. So kind kind of
talk about that dynamic. So the first
1061
01:12:57.920 --> 01:13:01.039
day, the first TV it was
I mean, it's hard to kind of
1062
01:13:01.079 --> 01:13:06.359
compare the last day to the first
day because it's there's just such a an
1063
01:13:06.399 --> 01:13:12.800
indoctrination kind of period where you're just
getting yourself up to that speed, you
1064
01:13:12.840 --> 01:13:15.079
know, like it's it's very much
like these guys are already on the train
1065
01:13:15.159 --> 01:13:17.760
and the trains go one hundred miles
an hour and it's whizzing by you and
1066
01:13:17.800 --> 01:13:23.039
you're going to try to grab onto
it. Um. So there's there's definitely
1067
01:13:23.079 --> 01:13:27.920
a real quick whirlwind and a fast
learning curve that this is you know,
1068
01:13:28.000 --> 01:13:30.960
this is how we do it,
this is where you need to be um.
1069
01:13:30.399 --> 01:13:34.119
But I was always encouraged, you
know, to chime in and if
1070
01:13:34.159 --> 01:13:39.239
you had an idea, like a
legit idea that you thought was good and
1071
01:13:39.279 --> 01:13:44.239
you could pitch it in a way
that you conveyed clearly what the mission is
1072
01:13:44.279 --> 01:13:46.079
and you clearly believed in it that
it was good, you could have an
1073
01:13:46.079 --> 01:13:50.199
audience with pretty much whoever you wanted. It was never a thing I never
1074
01:13:50.279 --> 01:13:54.199
felt like, oh, you're just
an assistant, so piss off. I
1075
01:13:54.319 --> 01:13:59.079
never felt like that there which is
which is encouraging because I you know,
1076
01:13:59.199 --> 01:14:00.720
I mean you've hear that out a
lot about a lot of other places and
1077
01:14:00.760 --> 01:14:03.039
a lot of other corporations. You
know, if you're kind of on the
1078
01:14:03.039 --> 01:14:06.079
bottom of the pole, people aren't
interested, you have to earn your way
1079
01:14:06.199 --> 01:14:10.199
up. So the as as it
kind of evolved, you know, I
1080
01:14:10.199 --> 01:14:14.840
got a little bit more involved in
the creative kind of process where you know,
1081
01:14:14.880 --> 01:14:16.680
they said, okay, well,
Jason's clearly not a buffoon, so
1082
01:14:17.159 --> 01:14:20.359
hey, why don't you go sit
with miss and Morrison, get their pitch
1083
01:14:20.960 --> 01:14:25.399
and you know, put it in
a in a grid format, you know,
1084
01:14:25.439 --> 01:14:28.560
a tent pole kind of format,
and bring it back so that we
1085
01:14:28.600 --> 01:14:32.560
can look at it as a group
or you know, hey, go go
1086
01:14:32.680 --> 01:14:39.159
over there and help out with the
Roddy Piper Santino backstage pretape because you know,
1087
01:14:39.199 --> 01:14:43.199
they need stuff and and uh and
that that I forgot to mention it
1088
01:14:43.239 --> 01:14:47.560
before. But like a big,
big part of the writer assistant job was
1089
01:14:47.600 --> 01:14:51.720
to get what you would call production
elements in line or magic as they called
1090
01:14:51.760 --> 01:14:56.760
it at the time, and that
was if we needed a sledgehammer under the
1091
01:14:56.800 --> 01:14:59.720
ring, I had to make sure
that it was there, if we needed
1092
01:15:00.079 --> 01:15:03.920
quote unquote Dudley tables. I needed
to make sure that they were there if
1093
01:15:03.960 --> 01:15:10.600
we needed, you know, a
Jeratron five thousand that Sean Michaels could be
1094
01:15:10.640 --> 01:15:15.319
smashed into by Chris Jericho during a
highlight reel. I'm not making it,
1095
01:15:15.399 --> 01:15:18.439
but that's ultimately my responsibility to make
sure that the gears are in motion and
1096
01:15:18.560 --> 01:15:23.520
that that stuff is happening. And
that was something that absolutely didn't happen day
1097
01:15:23.520 --> 01:15:25.680
one, because day one it's like, Okay, we don't know. Are
1098
01:15:25.680 --> 01:15:30.279
you like a fanboy, are you
gonna crap your pants when you know when
1099
01:15:30.319 --> 01:15:32.640
Beth Phoenix comes by you, or
you know, like how are you going
1100
01:15:32.720 --> 01:15:35.840
to respond? Are you going to
crumble? Are you going to flame out?
1101
01:15:36.079 --> 01:15:40.720
Are you going to excel? We
don't know yet. So the first
1102
01:15:40.840 --> 01:15:44.239
month is just kind of that like, Okay, we're doing this, We're
1103
01:15:44.279 --> 01:15:46.159
going here, follow me, do
this, don't say that you know that
1104
01:15:46.239 --> 01:15:48.840
kind of thing. And then the
second month it's kind of like okay,
1105
01:15:48.880 --> 01:15:51.600
yeah, I get it, I
know the flow, and then you start
1106
01:15:51.600 --> 01:15:56.920
picking up these other responsibilities. But
for like something like you know, JBL's
1107
01:15:56.960 --> 01:16:00.600
gonna run over Sena. There's a
lot that goes on behind the scene obviously
1108
01:16:00.680 --> 01:16:03.960
to make that happen and make that
safe, and I have to communicate that
1109
01:16:04.119 --> 01:16:08.680
to those those people that are involved
with that, but I have to do
1110
01:16:08.880 --> 01:16:14.479
so in a way that's not necessarily
you know, giving away all of the
1111
01:16:14.680 --> 01:16:20.039
story, you know, because there
was never like a massive paranoia about leaks
1112
01:16:20.079 --> 01:16:25.279
and scripts, but there were also
there was also a very keen understanding that
1113
01:16:25.399 --> 01:16:30.600
what we're doing is sensitive and we
need to remain spoiler free. So if
1114
01:16:30.600 --> 01:16:33.079
you don't need to know, you
don't get to know, you know.
1115
01:16:33.159 --> 01:16:36.439
So I would go to those magic
guys and I would get that stuff lined
1116
01:16:36.520 --> 01:16:39.800
up, and you know, so
there was a lot of stuff like that.
1117
01:16:40.000 --> 01:16:42.720
And then as they know that people
like you, you start getting sent
1118
01:16:42.840 --> 01:16:47.239
to go deliver messages or gather them. You know. So after a couple
1119
01:16:47.520 --> 01:16:50.119
months on the road, you know, like a guy like Mark Henry knows
1120
01:16:50.199 --> 01:16:54.560
who you are and he's happy to
see you. And so then they say,
1121
01:16:54.680 --> 01:16:58.159
oh, hey, we want to
do some crazy strength stuff with Mark,
1122
01:16:58.279 --> 01:17:00.680
so head on over there and ask
him how strong he is, you
1123
01:17:00.760 --> 01:17:04.079
know, something like that. So
that would be part of what I would
1124
01:17:04.119 --> 01:17:05.800
do. You know. I would
go over there and I'd say, hey,
1125
01:17:05.880 --> 01:17:11.239
Mark, so we're thinking about doing
this stuff where you've been to frying
1126
01:17:11.319 --> 01:17:13.920
pan? You know, can you
bend a frying pan? And he's like,
1127
01:17:14.199 --> 01:17:17.600
he'd say, I don't know,
go get me one. So I'd
1128
01:17:17.640 --> 01:17:20.560
go back to catering. Yeah,
right, So I'd go back to catering
1129
01:17:20.600 --> 01:17:23.720
and I'd get a frying pan and
I took it over to him and he's
1130
01:17:23.720 --> 01:17:27.600
sitting there and he's eating his lunch
and stuff, and he like rolled up
1131
01:17:27.640 --> 01:17:30.960
this frying pan like a burrito,
and it was just insane, you know,
1132
01:17:30.000 --> 01:17:32.520
because this pan is solid. It's
not a cast iron pan, but
1133
01:17:32.600 --> 01:17:36.760
it's it's a solid pan. So
like that would be something that they wouldn't
1134
01:17:36.760 --> 01:17:40.199
ask you to do day one because
if you go up to a guy like
1135
01:17:40.479 --> 01:17:43.960
any any one of those talents and
you say something like that, they don't
1136
01:17:44.039 --> 01:17:45.560
know you, they're not going to
respond in the right way. So you
1137
01:17:45.640 --> 01:17:50.960
have to kind of earn their trust
during those you know, first couple weeks
1138
01:17:51.039 --> 01:17:55.760
or months so that they know that
you're you know, you're not a stooge.
1139
01:17:55.920 --> 01:17:58.680
You're not just going back home and
calling all your friends and saying,
1140
01:17:58.720 --> 01:18:00.199
oh my god, you know,
guess Mark Henry did. It's going to
1141
01:18:00.239 --> 01:18:02.439
be so cool, You're going to
see it next week on RAW. You
1142
01:18:02.520 --> 01:18:05.359
know, like they need to know
that you're not that guy so that they
1143
01:18:05.399 --> 01:18:10.000
can start to open up to you. And that's that's the primary difference between
1144
01:18:10.119 --> 01:18:15.159
day one and you know, the
end, because you build that those relationships.
1145
01:18:15.199 --> 01:18:17.479
And I wouldn't say I was friends
with any of the talent, but
1146
01:18:17.560 --> 01:18:20.039
they knew who I was. They
knew that I respected them, they knew
1147
01:18:20.039 --> 01:18:26.199
I respected the business, and they
knew that that I had their best interests
1148
01:18:26.239 --> 01:18:29.600
in mind. That I wasn't going
to perpet, you know, intentionally bury
1149
01:18:29.720 --> 01:18:33.640
any of them or write bad stuff
for them because I wanted them to succeed
1150
01:18:33.720 --> 01:18:38.439
and I wanted to I wanted the
business to thrive because ultimately I'm a fan
1151
01:18:38.520 --> 01:18:40.600
too, you know, and I
want to see good product. I sold
1152
01:18:40.640 --> 01:18:42.720
me. Jump in here and set
the table. This is the Way Keller
1153
01:18:42.880 --> 01:18:46.640
Progressing podcast here at podcast one four, Friday, June eighth, twenty eighteen.
1154
01:18:47.159 --> 01:18:50.119
Thanks for joining me today. Thanks
for downloading the show. I appreciate
1155
01:18:50.159 --> 01:18:54.960
your support. I'm glad you're back. For part two of today's interview with
1156
01:18:55.479 --> 01:19:00.159
x WWE creative team member Jason Allen. He was with WW in two thousand
1157
01:19:00.159 --> 01:19:04.079
and eight. It's a tenth anniversary
of his time with WWE. He started
1158
01:19:04.119 --> 01:19:08.119
as an assistant writer, and last
week, in the first of three installments
1159
01:19:08.239 --> 01:19:11.600
of this interview, Jason talked about
his time in WWE, how we got
1160
01:19:11.640 --> 01:19:14.239
started, what it took to get
the job, his first impressions, and
1161
01:19:14.359 --> 01:19:16.600
more. If you miss that,
I do recommend you listen to that first,
1162
01:19:16.960 --> 01:19:19.680
and if you did listen to it, welcome back four Part two and
1163
01:19:19.840 --> 01:19:25.520
we got a lot more good stuff
to talk about and we will continue right
1164
01:19:25.560 --> 01:19:29.960
after this message from DDP Yoga.
I'm happy that DDP Yoga is back as
1165
01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:34.880
a sponsor. Now you can subscribe
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1166
01:19:34.920 --> 01:19:40.720
Podcast app using your Apple account.
That's new as of March twenty twenty two.
1167
01:19:41.119 --> 01:19:44.880
Just search pw Torch in your Apple
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1168
01:19:45.039 --> 01:19:46.640
Torch Dailycast logo show up. That's
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1169
01:19:47.000 --> 01:19:51.560
and also the pw Torch VIP podcast
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1170
01:19:51.720 --> 01:19:55.079
so subscribe you and if you don't, plan to go vip and get
1171
01:19:55.079 --> 01:19:58.560
a sample of our vi IP tier
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1172
01:19:58.680 --> 01:20:02.560
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1173
01:20:02.640 --> 01:20:05.399
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1174
01:20:05.399 --> 01:20:08.800
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1175
01:20:08.840 --> 01:20:13.760
to our free shows on Apple Podcasts, you are five seconds away from being
1176
01:20:14.119 --> 01:20:16.680
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1177
01:20:16.800 --> 01:20:20.039
check it out. That includes dozens
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1178
01:20:20.119 --> 01:20:24.680
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1179
01:20:24.760 --> 01:20:28.920
cast. All those episodes are presented
to VPP members with ads and plugs removed,
1180
01:20:29.279 --> 01:20:31.399
along with vapp exclusives like our post
pay per view roundtables, the Weight
1181
01:20:31.479 --> 01:20:35.399
Keller Hotline, The Fix with Todd
and Wade, Everything with Rich and Wade,
1182
01:20:35.800 --> 01:20:42.319
and many other VAP exclusive shows.
Just search PW Torch within the Apple
1183
01:20:42.399 --> 01:20:49.479
podcast app. Okay, so now
back to Jason Allen x WWE creative team
1184
01:20:49.520 --> 01:20:54.560
member. Jason, when did you
decide this wasn't for you? Well,
1185
01:20:54.680 --> 01:20:58.680
for me, it was kind of
I would say. After that three month
1186
01:20:58.840 --> 01:21:02.479
cycle ended and they extended me,
I was really excited about that because that
1187
01:21:02.600 --> 01:21:05.479
was kind of the hurdle. You
know, people would tell you that you
1188
01:21:05.560 --> 01:21:09.039
know, if you if you could
make it past three months, then you
1189
01:21:09.119 --> 01:21:12.680
can stay pretty much as long as
you want to stay. But it was
1190
01:21:12.840 --> 01:21:15.439
getting through that sort of curve that
choose up a lot of people. And
1191
01:21:16.680 --> 01:21:20.920
so we flew out of LaGuardia a
lot, and I was sitting on the
1192
01:21:21.000 --> 01:21:26.359
plane and Foley mcfoley was not an
on air talent with us at the time,
1193
01:21:27.439 --> 01:21:30.319
but he was. He was flying
to the same place that we were.
1194
01:21:30.479 --> 01:21:33.319
And I'm sitting next to him on
the plane and I was reading a
1195
01:21:33.399 --> 01:21:39.560
book and he leans over to me
and he goes, hey, you know
1196
01:21:39.720 --> 01:21:44.199
that that author's a real big fan
of mine. And so I look over
1197
01:21:44.319 --> 01:21:45.720
at him and I say, yeah, I'm actually a really big fan of
1198
01:21:45.800 --> 01:21:51.880
yours too. I've read all your
books. And and then I basically proceeded
1199
01:21:51.960 --> 01:21:58.600
to just kind of like cry on
Foley's shoulder for about twenty minutes about just
1200
01:21:59.439 --> 01:22:02.279
the business in general. And I
mean, looking back now, it's it's
1201
01:22:02.399 --> 01:22:05.880
it's very kind of trivial, you
know, the things that were bothering me.
1202
01:22:05.920 --> 01:22:08.479
I mean, some of it I
don't want to paint it with that
1203
01:22:08.560 --> 01:22:11.840
brush, but some of it was
just like, oh, I'm not I'm
1204
01:22:11.920 --> 01:22:14.600
not you know, getting the feedback
that I need. I'm not getting told
1205
01:22:14.640 --> 01:22:17.880
if it's good or bad. It's
just I'm dumping my heart into this script
1206
01:22:17.960 --> 01:22:20.880
and I'm handing it in and no
one says anything about it. And I
1207
01:22:21.000 --> 01:22:25.279
mean, looking back at the machine, now, I understand that there wasn't
1208
01:22:25.359 --> 01:22:30.680
time to worry about my feelings in
that regard. So I get it now,
1209
01:22:30.800 --> 01:22:33.199
but I mean back then, it
was it was important to me to
1210
01:22:33.319 --> 01:22:36.760
know that that not necessarily what I
was doing was going to be on TV,
1211
01:22:38.039 --> 01:22:41.560
but what I was doing was at
least okay, and that I wasn't
1212
01:22:41.600 --> 01:22:45.279
wasting my time. So I you
know, I outlined a lot of that
1213
01:22:45.359 --> 01:22:48.319
stuff to Mick, and uh,
you know, as we're kind of wrapping
1214
01:22:48.399 --> 01:22:53.039
up the conversation, he goes,
uh, you know, look, I
1215
01:22:53.359 --> 01:22:58.199
understand what you're thinking, and I
understand where your head's at. But from
1216
01:22:58.279 --> 01:23:01.720
me to you, don't be this
open with anybody else in the company,
1217
01:23:03.159 --> 01:23:05.239
you know. And I kind of
took that to heart that, you know,
1218
01:23:05.399 --> 01:23:12.079
like you asked earlier if people would
kind of like commiserate about life on
1219
01:23:12.159 --> 01:23:15.359
the road and how it wasn't for
them, and they really didn't because of
1220
01:23:15.439 --> 01:23:17.079
that reason. And Mick kind of
opened my eyes to that a bit,
1221
01:23:17.640 --> 01:23:20.680
and I always thought that was It's
a cool little human moment that you know,
1222
01:23:20.800 --> 01:23:25.520
I had. I had the you
know, hardcore legend quote unquote sitting
1223
01:23:25.560 --> 01:23:27.600
next to me on the plane.
I could have picked his brain about anything,
1224
01:23:27.640 --> 01:23:32.279
but I selfishly talked about myself for
for for twenty minutes. And you
1225
01:23:32.359 --> 01:23:35.840
know, because everything that's been asked
to Mick, I think at that point
1226
01:23:35.880 --> 01:23:39.800
he had already answered. He's probably
tired of answering whether or not it hurt
1227
01:23:39.840 --> 01:23:42.119
when he fell off the cage,
you know, So I didn't want to
1228
01:23:42.279 --> 01:23:45.119
ask him that kind of stuff because
again I didn't want to come across as
1229
01:23:45.279 --> 01:23:47.359
like this sort of starstruck fan.
It was like, yeah, I know
1230
01:23:47.479 --> 01:23:50.960
who you are. Obviously no one
else looks like Nick Foley. I know
1231
01:23:51.039 --> 01:23:53.920
who you are. Let me tell
you a bit about who I am,
1232
01:23:54.000 --> 01:23:57.920
and you tell me if I'm wasting
my time here or if I'm if I'm
1233
01:23:57.960 --> 01:24:01.399
not right for it. And after
that conversation it was kind of clear that
1234
01:24:02.000 --> 01:24:06.399
you know, this might not be
the right fit for me. Like I
1235
01:24:06.520 --> 01:24:10.000
talked about earlier, it was like, you know, there was just a
1236
01:24:10.119 --> 01:24:15.159
real active bar scene and um,
that really wasn't my scene even then or
1237
01:24:15.640 --> 01:24:19.760
ever, and I wasn't into that. So it was just kind of like
1238
01:24:19.960 --> 01:24:25.119
my my work kind of deteriorated,
I guess, and and my my level
1239
01:24:25.159 --> 01:24:28.880
of effort went down, and I
didn't go to HR. HR came to
1240
01:24:28.960 --> 01:24:31.720
me and they called me up to
the up to the office and I sat
1241
01:24:31.760 --> 01:24:36.439
down with Brian and and uh an
HR representative and they said so, yeah,
1242
01:24:36.680 --> 01:24:41.840
today's today's gonna be your last day, and we appreciate all your contributions
1243
01:24:41.880 --> 01:24:45.239
and we wish you the best in
your future endeavors. And I was like,
1244
01:24:45.279 --> 01:24:49.680
wow, they really said that.
That's that's great. I mean,
1245
01:24:49.760 --> 01:24:54.199
it's just it. Yeah, it's
a real thing that that kids said.
1246
01:24:54.760 --> 01:24:59.680
So we're obviously if your work went
down and you're having these conversations with Mick,
1247
01:25:00.800 --> 01:25:03.880
was it Did it cross your mind
maybe this is being maybe it's being
1248
01:25:03.960 --> 01:25:08.960
noticed you know that that I don't
my heart's not in this, or they
1249
01:25:09.000 --> 01:25:13.720
don't want to invest further in me
in one of these spots if if my
1250
01:25:13.800 --> 01:25:16.039
heart's got it or my work isn't
up to where it was early on when
1251
01:25:16.079 --> 01:25:19.640
they renewed you did did you have
a sense of that, Oh for sure.
1252
01:25:19.720 --> 01:25:25.159
I mean that was the main point
of conversation with Brian was uh,
1253
01:25:25.199 --> 01:25:28.960
and he was he was extremely open
to feedback that I had, you know,
1254
01:25:29.119 --> 01:25:32.479
and um, it was like it
was clear that the job was ending
1255
01:25:32.560 --> 01:25:36.880
today regardless of what I had to
say, but there was an open form
1256
01:25:36.960 --> 01:25:40.319
for me to say it. But
yeah, I think it was. It
1257
01:25:40.439 --> 01:25:45.920
was pretty clear that, you know, I felt like maybe the quality of
1258
01:25:45.079 --> 01:25:48.920
my of the writing I was turning
in had started to slide, or you
1259
01:25:49.000 --> 01:25:53.439
know, maybe I was just not
as as jovial as I used to be
1260
01:25:53.840 --> 01:25:57.199
or something like that. So it
was it was clear, I think,
1261
01:25:57.279 --> 01:25:59.560
to the team that you know,
it was time for me to move on
1262
01:25:59.800 --> 01:26:03.640
and for me to hand that spot
to one of the fifteen people waiting in
1263
01:26:03.760 --> 01:26:09.199
line. It was it was the
position deserves somebody who's all in, and
1264
01:26:09.399 --> 01:26:12.680
at that time I was not.
So that decision was made and I was
1265
01:26:12.840 --> 01:26:15.600
one hundred percent okay with it.
I was concerned with, you know,
1266
01:26:15.680 --> 01:26:17.279
what do I do in Stanford,
Connecticut now that I don't have that,
1267
01:26:18.720 --> 01:26:24.680
But it it didn't feel like the
failure that I thought it would, if
1268
01:26:24.960 --> 01:26:28.039
that makes sense. I felt like, do you felt like I would be
1269
01:26:28.159 --> 01:26:31.000
crushed in a way, yeah,
because it was basically like, you know,
1270
01:26:31.119 --> 01:26:34.439
you had your dream, you lived
it, it wasn't for you,
1271
01:26:34.800 --> 01:26:39.520
and now you're done. And and
that felt good in that sense. I
1272
01:26:39.600 --> 01:26:44.880
mean, going up there and spending
the six months and not working out infinitely
1273
01:26:44.960 --> 01:26:47.159
feels better than me sitting here ten
years later thinking like, you know,
1274
01:26:47.520 --> 01:26:50.520
I wonder what would have happened if
I went up there for that interview.
1275
01:26:51.159 --> 01:26:56.840
You know absolutely, you know that
that that was totally worth it. And
1276
01:26:56.920 --> 01:27:00.640
I did feel relieved because I felt
like I felt like I knew, you
1277
01:27:00.720 --> 01:27:02.520
know, I mean, I guess
that's kind of the best way to put
1278
01:27:02.560 --> 01:27:04.600
it. Like I knew it wasn't
for me, and I knew it's never
1279
01:27:04.720 --> 01:27:11.239
gonna be from me, and it's
okay. Support us on Patreon starting at
1280
01:27:11.279 --> 01:27:14.520
four dollars and ninety nine cents,
get these shows, add free and bonus
1281
01:27:14.640 --> 01:27:17.960
vi IP content. That's four dollars
and ninety nine cents on Patreon, Patreon
1282
01:27:18.079 --> 01:27:25.199
dot com slash pwtrg vi ip that's
patreon dot com slash pw torch vi ip.
1283
01:27:25.680 --> 01:27:29.239
That is the quickest, cheapest and
easiest way to support us and enjoy
1284
01:27:29.359 --> 01:27:33.199
these shows with a streamlined listening experience, the Waight Keller post shows, podcasts,
1285
01:27:33.439 --> 01:27:38.920
and the PW Torch daily casts,
plus some random VIP bonus content.
1286
01:27:44.479 --> 01:27:47.600
So what We'll get a little uh
into what happened next with you, and
1287
01:27:47.640 --> 01:27:50.880
then we'll rewind and go back into
your time there. And I know there's
1288
01:27:50.880 --> 01:27:55.399
some fun anecdotes and people I want
to ask you about in moments on TV.
1289
01:27:55.479 --> 01:27:57.760
I don't want to ask you about, but what what did you do
1290
01:27:57.880 --> 01:28:00.760
next? Like, how did you
how did you adjust too? We'll call
1291
01:28:00.840 --> 01:28:08.560
it a more normal experience then what
you talk about this immersive and somewhat you
1292
01:28:08.640 --> 01:28:12.000
know, bubble isolated life of being
a writer for six months. Yeah,
1293
01:28:12.359 --> 01:28:15.119
So I just I got home and
I got in my car and I drove.
1294
01:28:16.039 --> 01:28:19.439
It was very Forrest gumpish, where
he just kind of takes off,
1295
01:28:19.560 --> 01:28:24.560
running out of nowhere and doesn't turn
around. I just got in my car
1296
01:28:24.760 --> 01:28:30.079
and I started driving toward Michigan because
I had a buddy that lived there and
1297
01:28:30.680 --> 01:28:33.039
they when I left, there was
a two week severance, and I'm like,
1298
01:28:33.119 --> 01:28:38.319
I'm gonna take those two weeks and
I'm just gonna I'm just gonna drive
1299
01:28:38.479 --> 01:28:41.520
and I'm gonna kind of get lost
in my own head for a while and
1300
01:28:41.600 --> 01:28:44.279
figure out what I want to do. Do I want to stay in Stanford?
1301
01:28:44.319 --> 01:28:46.680
Do I want to go back home? You know? If I go
1302
01:28:46.800 --> 01:28:49.560
back home, is every gonna buddy
gonna be like, oh, we knew
1303
01:28:49.600 --> 01:28:53.720
you wouldn't make it, you know? Or you know, would I get
1304
01:28:53.800 --> 01:28:57.640
sympathy from them? Would would people
tell me like I blew it? You
1305
01:28:57.720 --> 01:29:00.279
know? How would they respond?
And you know what am I going to
1306
01:29:00.359 --> 01:29:02.520
say to them? How am I
going to tell them? You know?
1307
01:29:02.560 --> 01:29:04.600
Like, how am I going to
tell my mom that? And she sent
1308
01:29:04.680 --> 01:29:08.920
me to school for this? And
I had the job, and I lost
1309
01:29:08.960 --> 01:29:12.680
it because I didn't want it,
like really, you know that that's kind
1310
01:29:12.720 --> 01:29:14.439
of you know, So I had
to I had to clear my head for
1311
01:29:14.479 --> 01:29:17.960
a while. So I drove around
for about ten days just to visit various
1312
01:29:18.000 --> 01:29:21.279
people that I knew around the country, and I went and saw my grandparents
1313
01:29:21.319 --> 01:29:25.239
for the first time in a while, and um, yeah. Then I
1314
01:29:25.319 --> 01:29:28.199
drove back up to Stanford, and
by the time I got there, it
1315
01:29:28.279 --> 01:29:30.159
was like, Okay, yeah,
I'm just gonna put my stuff in the
1316
01:29:30.199 --> 01:29:32.199
car and I'm gonna keep on driving. And I just headed back home and
1317
01:29:32.520 --> 01:29:35.279
uh, so I was what I
did. I didn't have any there was
1318
01:29:35.359 --> 01:29:40.439
There was never a part of me
that was like I'm gonna go work as
1319
01:29:40.479 --> 01:29:43.800
a cashier at the corner store at
Stanford, Connecticut. There was no point
1320
01:29:43.840 --> 01:29:45.920
in doing that because I didn't know
anybody there, and the people I did
1321
01:29:46.039 --> 01:29:49.760
know are married to the WWE,
so they don't have time for me anyway.
1322
01:29:49.920 --> 01:29:55.319
Yeah, well, so, uh
what what did you end up doing?
1323
01:29:55.520 --> 01:29:59.600
And I know you've stayed a fan? Um, you're torch V if
1324
01:29:59.640 --> 01:30:02.520
you remember listen to and read our
our coverage of wrestling, and you're following
1325
01:30:02.560 --> 01:30:05.479
the industry today and I'm eager to
talk to you about what you think of
1326
01:30:05.560 --> 01:30:09.880
the changes and where things have gone
since you were there. But not everybody
1327
01:30:10.000 --> 01:30:12.880
stay as a fan. I think
most It seems like most people stay a
1328
01:30:12.960 --> 01:30:15.079
fan, but some people need a
break for a while. Like, how
1329
01:30:15.439 --> 01:30:20.840
how did you look at pro wrestling
differently having been there in terms of the
1330
01:30:20.960 --> 01:30:25.000
role that it played in your life
as an escape? Is it? Is
1331
01:30:25.000 --> 01:30:29.479
it in a different place in your
life since you left in a way,
1332
01:30:29.720 --> 01:30:31.399
yes, Um, it's kind of
like, uh, you know, I
1333
01:30:31.680 --> 01:30:34.520
kind of liken it to like Wizard
of Oz, Like once you've looked behind
1334
01:30:34.600 --> 01:30:39.319
the curtain, you can't unlook yeah, from behind the curtain. Um,
1335
01:30:39.600 --> 01:30:42.119
I mean obviously, I you know, I knew going in, or I
1336
01:30:42.199 --> 01:30:46.720
knew long long before that it was, you know, a scripted drama.
1337
01:30:48.159 --> 01:30:53.159
But I kind of look at it
more critically after the fact, Like,
1338
01:30:53.439 --> 01:30:55.880
you know, I look at a
guy like Roman and it's like, you
1339
01:30:55.960 --> 01:30:58.960
know, you could make him whatever
you want to make him, So why
1340
01:30:59.000 --> 01:31:04.439
do you continue to have him be
somebody that that is not is not connecting
1341
01:31:04.479 --> 01:31:09.119
with the fans? You know.
So I'm I think I'm extra critical in
1342
01:31:09.199 --> 01:31:14.680
a situation like that, or when
there's just really sloppy writing or really sloppy
1343
01:31:14.760 --> 01:31:18.359
booking, that kind of stuff bugs
me more than than before, whereas before
1344
01:31:18.359 --> 01:31:23.079
I would just say, oh,
that was stupid, you know, not
1345
01:31:23.239 --> 01:31:27.000
to not to say I'm proud of, you know, like the Vicky Guerrero
1346
01:31:27.399 --> 01:31:31.560
pudding match. But but you know, there's always that kind of stuff where
1347
01:31:31.560 --> 01:31:35.800
you're like, yeah, somebody pitched
this or you know, somebody thought that
1348
01:31:35.920 --> 01:31:39.800
this would be a good idea and
it's not, you know, and so
1349
01:31:40.000 --> 01:31:43.399
that aspect of it is kind of
troublesome. I really didn't take too much
1350
01:31:43.479 --> 01:31:46.359
time off because I wanted to see
I was mainly curious if the stuff that
1351
01:31:46.479 --> 01:31:49.159
we had pitched as a group,
you know, and the stuff that we
1352
01:31:49.239 --> 01:31:53.000
had planned was going to pan out
the way the way we had a planned
1353
01:31:53.039 --> 01:31:57.720
and how how much different does it
become, because like, when you're in
1354
01:31:57.840 --> 01:32:03.279
it, it's hard sometimes to remember
after what happened, what you thought should
1355
01:32:03.279 --> 01:32:08.159
have happened, because it's it's it's
kind of like like when somebody lies so
1356
01:32:08.399 --> 01:32:12.560
much that the lie becomes their reality. It's like that, like it's hard
1357
01:32:12.640 --> 01:32:15.720
to go back a year later,
you know, and say, well,
1358
01:32:15.760 --> 01:32:18.000
like, okay, this is how
WrestleMania was supposed to be and this is
1359
01:32:18.079 --> 01:32:23.199
what we ended up with. So
it's it's it's hard to look at it
1360
01:32:23.279 --> 01:32:29.000
through that lens. To kind of
use a Wade Keller verbiage there, it's
1361
01:32:29.039 --> 01:32:32.119
hard to it's hard to look through
through that lens and look back at it.
1362
01:32:32.560 --> 01:32:35.600
So it's, yeah, you can
never detach completely. But it was
1363
01:32:35.760 --> 01:32:40.119
there was never a time where I
was like soured on the business and I
1364
01:32:40.239 --> 01:32:43.000
was just like, oh screw wrestling, I'm not watching for two years.
1365
01:32:43.439 --> 01:32:45.840
I never lost my passion as a
fan, and uh, you know,
1366
01:32:46.039 --> 01:32:50.039
I still I don't watch it quite
as much on the week to week stuff.
1367
01:32:50.079 --> 01:32:53.600
I rely a lot more on the
Keller hot lines to keep me up
1368
01:32:53.640 --> 01:32:56.640
to date on Raw and SmackDown because
I can listen to those on my commute
1369
01:32:56.680 --> 01:32:59.520
to work, whereas I don't always
have three hours on a Monday night.
1370
01:33:00.039 --> 01:33:03.000
So I'm still involved, definitely.
I never missed the pay per views,
1371
01:33:03.039 --> 01:33:08.239
and I still look at it kind
of with that aspect, like I'll look
1372
01:33:08.279 --> 01:33:10.680
at it and I'll say, man, like, I feel bad for who
1373
01:33:10.760 --> 01:33:13.239
had to pitch that to that talent
because you could tell the talent's just not
1374
01:33:13.399 --> 01:33:19.000
into it. So when you watch
TV today, w WTV, when when
1375
01:33:19.039 --> 01:33:21.680
you do take time to do that
and when you have since he left over
1376
01:33:21.760 --> 01:33:29.239
ten year or almost ten years ago, do you Because I'm taught christ to
1377
01:33:29.319 --> 01:33:31.479
Joseph, we talked about earlier writer
at the time, Djat. I remember
1378
01:33:31.520 --> 01:33:34.600
interviewing him and he talks about how, you know, he's always anticipating,
1379
01:33:35.159 --> 01:33:39.439
you know, the cadence of the
show and that there's the top of the
1380
01:33:39.560 --> 01:33:42.079
hour and when are they going to
get the brakes in and oh, here's
1381
01:33:42.079 --> 01:33:44.399
a ring enter instant. Then we
go to commercial and then there's a match,
1382
01:33:44.479 --> 01:33:47.880
and it's like he sees all those
things that he would not have thought
1383
01:33:48.000 --> 01:33:51.239
that much about as a fan.
What do you see now when you do
1384
01:33:51.399 --> 01:33:58.079
watch a w w BTV show that
jumps out to you that maybe you notice
1385
01:33:58.119 --> 01:34:00.880
that even when you listen to me
recap a show, I'm not noticing or
1386
01:34:00.960 --> 01:34:03.000
that you didn't notice before you were
a fan because you were part of the
1387
01:34:03.479 --> 01:34:09.359
process of creating the shows. Um, I mean, I think I notice
1388
01:34:09.399 --> 01:34:13.960
a lot more kind of what's happening
in pre tape versus what's happening live.
1389
01:34:14.239 --> 01:34:18.720
You can you can usually tell based
on what you can hear in the audience
1390
01:34:18.920 --> 01:34:25.800
and just how kind of lively people
are. There's a certain danger that comes
1391
01:34:25.840 --> 01:34:29.800
with being what you would call live
live, and some guys thriving that and
1392
01:34:29.880 --> 01:34:32.199
some guys don't. So I pick
up on that pretty immediately if I could
1393
01:34:32.239 --> 01:34:36.760
tell if a backstage promo is live
live versus pre taped, or if it's
1394
01:34:36.800 --> 01:34:44.680
like the sixth time that they've done
that particular thing. So stuff like that.
1395
01:34:45.800 --> 01:34:51.119
Sometimes, like when when especially extraordinary
things happen, I'll kind of pick
1396
01:34:51.239 --> 01:34:55.680
up on that and how they had
to break the format because we would definitely
1397
01:34:55.800 --> 01:34:58.279
think in those terms, like you
would come in with the open and then
1398
01:34:58.279 --> 01:35:00.960
you crashed the break, and then
you come back and then you know,
1399
01:35:00.079 --> 01:35:03.560
Jericho and Regal are already in the
ring. Here's the match happening. Uh
1400
01:35:03.680 --> 01:35:06.720
you know and you don't. We
never planned it out in the in the
1401
01:35:08.680 --> 01:35:12.760
in the spots where you would say, okay, this happens outside the ring
1402
01:35:12.800 --> 01:35:14.840
and then we go to commercial.
It was just like, okay, the
1403
01:35:14.880 --> 01:35:18.640
match is going to be twelve minutes
long. Jericho goes over clean, and
1404
01:35:18.720 --> 01:35:21.560
then it's up to them and in
the road agent to come up with the
1405
01:35:21.640 --> 01:35:26.399
match. So we never I would
never think of it in terms of like,
1406
01:35:26.520 --> 01:35:30.520
oh they're late for commercial or whatever, but like just being around it
1407
01:35:30.600 --> 01:35:32.720
for so long, like when Seth
goes out and does the you know,
1408
01:35:32.800 --> 01:35:35.920
the the dive through the ropes and
like thinking, boom, commercial break.
1409
01:35:35.960 --> 01:35:40.439
You know we're going to that um
top of the hour, bottom of the
1410
01:35:40.520 --> 01:35:43.439
hour. It's always got to be
something hot, so you know, like
1411
01:35:43.560 --> 01:35:46.439
you kind of like it can sometimes
ruin things if you know that they're advertising
1412
01:35:46.520 --> 01:35:49.479
like Rowsey's gonna come out. You
know she's gonna come out either top of
1413
01:35:49.520 --> 01:35:51.920
the show, middle of the show, or end of the show and it's
1414
01:35:53.000 --> 01:35:56.439
never just like, oh, here's
Ronda Rousey at nine forty eight, you
1415
01:35:56.479 --> 01:36:00.640
know, or whatever. So that
kind of stuff can can damage the spontaneity
1416
01:36:00.680 --> 01:36:03.159
of it a little bit, I
think, But that's really kind of looking
1417
01:36:03.199 --> 01:36:09.720
at it on a micro level.
Thank you for listening to the Wade Keller
1418
01:36:09.800 --> 01:36:13.239
Pro Wrestling Podcast. Don't forget to
also subscribe to our Red Logo show,
1419
01:36:13.520 --> 01:36:16.319
the Waight Keller Pro Wrestling Post Shows, featuring our live post shows, which
1420
01:36:16.359 --> 01:36:19.800
you can download and listen to on
demand at any time, covering Raw,
1421
01:36:20.199 --> 01:36:26.000
Dynamite and SmackDown throughout the week with
rotating guest co hosts, live callers and
1422
01:36:26.199 --> 01:36:30.079
emails, plus on site correspondence who
talk to us right after they leave the
1423
01:36:30.119 --> 01:36:32.399
building on Monday, Wednesday and Friday
nights. That's the Waight Keller Pro Wrestling
1424
01:36:32.439 --> 01:36:36.239
Post Show. Just search Wade Keller, look for the red Logo and click
1425
01:36:36.279 --> 01:36:46.079
subscribe. It's free. What would
you change about the writing process looking back
1426
01:36:46.159 --> 01:36:49.279
now at how they did things?
Is there anything in retrospect you're just like,
1427
01:36:49.680 --> 01:36:53.039
boy, that was a lot of
busy work, or that that was
1428
01:36:53.600 --> 01:36:56.840
there was a much more productive way
to get to the endpoint that they wanted.
1429
01:36:58.239 --> 01:37:01.279
Well, it's hard to say because
the rosters are so they're so big.
1430
01:37:01.399 --> 01:37:05.119
Now there's a lot of talent to
work with and kind of like how
1431
01:37:05.239 --> 01:37:10.079
I was sort of venting to Mick
about you know, I write all this
1432
01:37:10.199 --> 01:37:12.920
stuff, and I just write pages
of stuff and no one ever tells me
1433
01:37:13.000 --> 01:37:15.520
if it's good or if it's bad. You know. The talent is like
1434
01:37:15.680 --> 01:37:19.239
that a lot too. Like they
have to be sort of coached and I
1435
01:37:19.279 --> 01:37:21.880
don't want to say coddled because that's
the wrong word, but they have to
1436
01:37:21.960 --> 01:37:26.760
be encouraged and they need to know, like what's their motivation and someone has
1437
01:37:26.800 --> 01:37:30.920
to communicate that to them. So
I would love to say, like go
1438
01:37:30.079 --> 01:37:34.880
back to a smaller, more agile
writing team where it's just five or six
1439
01:37:35.000 --> 01:37:38.880
people, you know, kind of
in a room, you know, around
1440
01:37:39.359 --> 01:37:42.239
Vince's dining room table, so to
speak, you know, back in the
1441
01:37:42.319 --> 01:37:45.359
day where it was just three or
four guys and ham around some long term
1442
01:37:45.439 --> 01:37:50.600
stories. I'd really love to see
much more long term arcs. Like when
1443
01:37:50.680 --> 01:37:55.159
Sena came out and challenged Rock for
you know, a match next year at
1444
01:37:55.239 --> 01:37:58.199
Mania, it was like this is
cool, Like, how are they going
1445
01:37:58.279 --> 01:38:00.199
to keep this going? And how
are they not going to have interactions for
1446
01:38:00.319 --> 01:38:03.720
a year? And that was an
exciting challenge and something like that, like
1447
01:38:04.159 --> 01:38:08.000
I would a fan would look at
that and say like, no, like
1448
01:38:08.159 --> 01:38:13.119
wrestle now, wrestle right now,
you know, like they do all the
1449
01:38:13.239 --> 01:38:15.680
time. So for me, like
they see something like that, I was
1450
01:38:15.720 --> 01:38:18.560
like, Okay, I'm fascinated.
How do you how do you keep this
1451
01:38:18.720 --> 01:38:23.520
interesting for a year? So I
think kind of like streamlining the process,
1452
01:38:24.720 --> 01:38:28.680
But you can't. You can't maintain
credibility with the writing team and the talent
1453
01:38:28.920 --> 01:38:31.359
with less people because there's just not
enough hours in the day to go around
1454
01:38:31.399 --> 01:38:36.319
and give every single person that that
motivation or that pep talk or that one
1455
01:38:36.359 --> 01:38:40.479
on one time that they need to
really figure out who they're supposed to be.
1456
01:38:41.439 --> 01:38:45.560
So it's it's like a you have
to rob one to fund the other.
1457
01:38:45.760 --> 01:38:49.600
And I don't know that there really
is a winning formula. But from
1458
01:38:49.640 --> 01:38:53.479
what I understand, the writing team
is bigger now than it was then and
1459
01:38:53.600 --> 01:38:56.319
it's only it seems like it's only
going to continue to go that way.
1460
01:38:57.399 --> 01:39:01.720
All right, Um, the interaction
with vinsc Man, we've gotten this far
1461
01:39:01.800 --> 01:39:09.079
into it, we haven't talked much
about Vince m and Christian Harlow, you
1462
01:39:09.119 --> 01:39:12.439
know, talked about how you know
when when Vince Watson a room, you
1463
01:39:12.680 --> 01:39:15.119
you it's it's like the Godfather walk
here. I can't remember. I actually
1464
01:39:15.159 --> 01:39:17.359
can't remember the exact comparison he made, but there's a presence. Oh,
1465
01:39:17.760 --> 01:39:21.039
he said, if the force was
real, Vince McMahon would give off the
1466
01:39:21.159 --> 01:39:27.880
vibe of a fourth Talk about Vince
McMahon and your interactions with him, uh,
1467
01:39:28.119 --> 01:39:31.800
personally and also how people talked about
him when he wasn't around. What
1468
01:39:32.000 --> 01:39:36.720
what the what the view of him
as the leader was? Um, I
1469
01:39:36.800 --> 01:39:42.960
mean, my interaction with him is
gonna be pretty limited. Um I was
1470
01:39:43.039 --> 01:39:45.119
around. He would never come in
the writer's room. He would he would
1471
01:39:45.159 --> 01:39:48.199
be down in his office and uh, you know, the upper level guys
1472
01:39:48.239 --> 01:39:53.159
would go meet with him kind of
get the directive or you know, they
1473
01:39:53.199 --> 01:39:56.520
would go in. Brian would have
to go in, uh you know,
1474
01:39:56.640 --> 01:40:00.600
like on Thursday or Friday and pitch
him the show that we've as a team
1475
01:40:00.720 --> 01:40:03.800
have have built. Um and then
he would come back, you know,
1476
01:40:03.920 --> 01:40:08.720
sometimes really energetic. Sometimes he'd come
back kind of dejected, and he'd come
1477
01:40:08.760 --> 01:40:15.079
back with this Mike Adam Lee kind
of news, which you know, not
1478
01:40:15.199 --> 01:40:17.319
to not to paint Adam Lee with
a negative brush or anything. But that
1479
01:40:17.479 --> 01:40:23.640
was a challenge. Yeah, yeah, so you know he would come back
1480
01:40:23.680 --> 01:40:28.359
with that. And so I dealt
with Vince more at a distance as far
1481
01:40:28.439 --> 01:40:31.840
as you know, he is the
ultimate boss of my boss of my boss.
1482
01:40:32.680 --> 01:40:38.039
Um, my interaction with Vince was
a lot more I would say,
1483
01:40:38.159 --> 01:40:43.359
just not professional but personal. And
I'm not saying where we were buddies or
1484
01:40:43.359 --> 01:40:45.239
anything like that, but like there
were a lot of times where it was
1485
01:40:45.319 --> 01:40:49.560
my responsibility to make sure food was
delivered to his to his room, you
1486
01:40:49.600 --> 01:40:55.479
know. And one of the writer
assistant jobs me and and my uh my
1487
01:40:55.600 --> 01:40:59.600
counterpart was we had to you know, feed Vince like like got to feed
1488
01:40:59.640 --> 01:41:01.199
the bear, you know, on
a certain schedule. And he had you
1489
01:41:01.279 --> 01:41:03.720
know, I know that you like
to harp on his on his meat stuff,
1490
01:41:03.720 --> 01:41:06.439
and that's exactly what it was.
It was like we're walking like eighteen
1491
01:41:06.520 --> 01:41:11.880
ounce sirloin steak and asparagus into his
dressing room and sometimes he eats it,
1492
01:41:11.960 --> 01:41:15.159
sometimes he doesn't, but it had
to be delivered at a certain time.
1493
01:41:15.039 --> 01:41:18.840
He ate us with us. Yeah, there was asparagus on the plate from
1494
01:41:18.840 --> 01:41:24.239
time to time. Yeah, and
I don't. I'd never paid attention too
1495
01:41:24.359 --> 01:41:27.239
much. It was it was either
untouched or it was gone. This is
1496
01:41:27.279 --> 01:41:29.399
breaking news. I mean, he
ate vegetables. We didn't know this.
1497
01:41:29.520 --> 01:41:31.399
This is great. I can add
that to my list of things about Vince.
1498
01:41:31.960 --> 01:41:34.119
I just thought it was steak wraps
and ketchup. That's all I ever
1499
01:41:34.199 --> 01:41:38.399
heard about. Yeah, lots of
that too. I mean everything you hear
1500
01:41:38.439 --> 01:41:42.159
about, like the germ of phobia
and stuff that's all legit. I mean,
1501
01:41:42.720 --> 01:41:45.479
he uh, if if you if
there was like a bowl of candy
1502
01:41:45.640 --> 01:41:49.039
or a bowl of peanuts on a
table um, this was one of the
1503
01:41:49.199 --> 01:41:53.600
like the very first things that was
explained to me, Like you do not
1504
01:41:53.920 --> 01:41:58.600
stick your hand in the bowl and
eat out of your hand. What you
1505
01:41:58.720 --> 01:42:01.399
do is you pick up the bowl
and you pour it into your non bull
1506
01:42:01.439 --> 01:42:04.880
hand and then eat with your non
bull hand, and then if you go
1507
01:42:05.000 --> 01:42:09.720
back for seconds, you pour again. So like all of that stuff like
1508
01:42:09.800 --> 01:42:13.159
that's all that's all real, and
that's all legit. Um. He never
1509
01:42:13.279 --> 01:42:19.520
came across to me as as like
as a dictator or a hey, it's
1510
01:42:19.600 --> 01:42:23.319
it's it's my way, pal,
We're going to do it this way.
1511
01:42:24.520 --> 01:42:30.039
Vince would listen to anybody if they
had conviction and they wanted to pitch,
1512
01:42:30.159 --> 01:42:32.960
and that that was just really cool
about him. Now, I never had
1513
01:42:33.000 --> 01:42:39.000
the opportunity to like stand on a
soapbox and pitch him this fantastic storyline,
1514
01:42:40.239 --> 01:42:43.479
partially because we were never in the
same place for too long. It was
1515
01:42:43.600 --> 01:42:46.239
generally just walk in, you knock, walk in, dropped the plate on
1516
01:42:46.279 --> 01:42:48.560
the thing, he says thank you, you say you're welcome, then you
1517
01:42:48.720 --> 01:42:53.600
leave. But he was always polite
in that way. I don't recall anybody
1518
01:42:54.039 --> 01:42:57.239
like there was never any like,
oh, you know, the old man's
1519
01:42:57.319 --> 01:43:00.399
lost it or any kind of like
any talk like that with us. Yeah,
1520
01:43:00.640 --> 01:43:03.000
we would definitely have those. So
here's what he wants to do,
1521
01:43:03.399 --> 01:43:06.079
you know, And and here,
you know, Brian would come in and
1522
01:43:06.199 --> 01:43:12.920
lay out this this uh sort of
chicken s to make salad out of.
1523
01:43:14.880 --> 01:43:16.119
And that doesn't mean the idea was
bad. It was just like, hey,
1524
01:43:16.199 --> 01:43:19.039
this is a total curveball that we
were not expecting. Now we have
1525
01:43:19.159 --> 01:43:24.000
to adjust. Or he would tell
us, you know, like okay,
1526
01:43:24.119 --> 01:43:28.159
so yeah, this guy's going away
for suspension, so we got to work
1527
01:43:28.199 --> 01:43:31.079
around that, or so and so
was injured. You know, Orton broke
1528
01:43:31.159 --> 01:43:35.119
his collar bone with Triple H at
one of the pay per views we were
1529
01:43:35.119 --> 01:43:39.119
at, I think it was Extreme
Rules, and yeah, it was like,
1530
01:43:39.159 --> 01:43:41.159
okay, so now we have to
rewrite, we have to write Orton
1531
01:43:41.239 --> 01:43:44.039
out of all of that stuff.
So like that kind of stuff would come
1532
01:43:44.079 --> 01:43:50.319
down from Vince and I can't remember
anytime anybody kind of openly critiquing his vision
1533
01:43:50.520 --> 01:43:54.800
or where we were going. It
was kind of the mindset of, you
1534
01:43:54.880 --> 01:43:58.680
know, he's he's at the time, you know, he's sixty years old,
1535
01:43:59.119 --> 01:44:01.159
and he wants to do this McMahon
millions things, So we're going to
1536
01:44:01.239 --> 01:44:04.800
make it as interesting as we can. Oh, he wants a light rig
1537
01:44:04.880 --> 01:44:08.159
to fall on him, and he
wants to be you know, out of
1538
01:44:08.199 --> 01:44:12.520
commission. Oh okay, we'll do
that. He wants to he wants to
1539
01:44:12.560 --> 01:44:15.159
break kfabe and called Triple H Paul
when he can't feel his legs. You
1540
01:44:15.239 --> 01:44:17.680
know, Okay, who are we
to tell him that that's not right?
1541
01:44:18.000 --> 01:44:21.279
Right? So yeah, we're all
kind of along for the ride, and
1542
01:44:21.720 --> 01:44:25.119
you know, is there a madman
at the wheel? You know? Sometimes
1543
01:44:25.199 --> 01:44:29.960
Yeah, but we all regarded him
as you know, as the boss,
1544
01:44:30.039 --> 01:44:32.560
and hey, he's the guy signed
in the checks, so we're going to
1545
01:44:32.640 --> 01:44:38.920
execute his vision to the best and
the most entertaining way we can. Thanks
1546
01:44:38.960 --> 01:44:42.279
for downloading today's show. Take it
to the next level with a VIP membership.
1547
01:44:42.319 --> 01:44:45.760
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1555
01:45:19.359 --> 01:45:23.640
So let's let's talk about the Mike
Adamley thing because this fits in here.
1556
01:45:23.960 --> 01:45:29.359
UM with Brian Gowertz delivering the news
and UM, you know that Vince McMann
1557
01:45:29.479 --> 01:45:34.000
was high on Adam Lee and Brian
Gowertz knew this was maybe not going to
1558
01:45:34.079 --> 01:45:39.479
work out. UM, talk about
that a little bit more, and then
1559
01:45:39.600 --> 01:45:42.920
how that played out, because it's
it's interesting with you know, Gowertz and
1560
01:45:43.000 --> 01:45:45.319
Vince were close and tight and there's
a respect there, and yeah, here's
1561
01:45:45.319 --> 01:45:48.640
a case where yeah there's an edict
from Vince and you know, the top
1562
01:45:48.720 --> 01:45:57.399
writer it knows it's trouble. So
um, first off, what I say
1563
01:45:57.520 --> 01:46:01.119
here is just kind of my speculation. But the way Brian pitched it to
1564
01:46:01.359 --> 01:46:08.279
us, he was very kind of
mischievous about it. Like I think Brian
1565
01:46:08.439 --> 01:46:12.520
had a very different idea in my
opinion of how this Adam Lee thing was
1566
01:46:12.520 --> 01:46:15.039
going to play out in Vince.
I think Vince went into it, you
1567
01:46:15.119 --> 01:46:19.319
know, whole hog, thinking that
this was something good, Like this was
1568
01:46:19.840 --> 01:46:23.399
you know, Adam Lee was going
to be the voice of reason and you
1569
01:46:23.439 --> 01:46:28.039
know he's going to bring credibility to
the show because he's got a sports broadcasting
1570
01:46:28.119 --> 01:46:30.960
background, you know. And then
so I mean we saw how it kind
1571
01:46:30.960 --> 01:46:33.000
of worked out with the commentary.
He wasn't a natural fit and we had
1572
01:46:33.079 --> 01:46:42.520
this guy under contract. Brian comes
in and he's like, Adam Ley's going
1573
01:46:42.560 --> 01:46:46.079
to be the GM and he said
it in a way and this is like
1574
01:46:46.439 --> 01:46:50.119
a twenty second conversation ten years ago. But in my mind, the way
1575
01:46:50.199 --> 01:46:55.680
it happened was Brian came back and
he was like, Adam Ley's going to
1576
01:46:55.720 --> 01:47:00.640
be the GM let's have some fun. And the idea was never to like
1577
01:47:00.880 --> 01:47:04.439
paint him into these situations where he
looks silly. He just like kind of
1578
01:47:04.520 --> 01:47:09.800
naturally did that on his own.
But I don't think that was the idea
1579
01:47:09.880 --> 01:47:13.000
from the start. The idea from
the start was to make him a legit
1580
01:47:13.800 --> 01:47:18.079
authority figure who wasn't a heel and
run with that for a while, and
1581
01:47:18.439 --> 01:47:23.640
Adam Lee just turned into this sort
of cartoon of himself, you know,
1582
01:47:23.760 --> 01:47:27.800
to where a couple weeks in,
you know, he's he's backstage doing skits
1583
01:47:27.840 --> 01:47:31.760
with was Sina and Micky James and
jbl about Mama Juana. You know.
1584
01:47:31.920 --> 01:47:38.159
Like so he was like he was
easy to write for because you knew like
1585
01:47:38.279 --> 01:47:42.840
no matter what he touched, he'd
find a way to make it kind of
1586
01:47:42.920 --> 01:47:46.600
funny but in an unintentional way.
But he was just one of those things
1587
01:47:46.680 --> 01:47:50.159
like okay, like this is the
way we're going. And right off the
1588
01:47:50.199 --> 01:47:55.479
bat, I think Brian had different
ideas for how to kind of script him
1589
01:47:55.479 --> 01:47:58.800
and how to utilize him than what
Vince did, but it was it was
1590
01:47:58.840 --> 01:48:00.359
one of those situations where it was
like, Yeah, I'm doing what you
1591
01:48:00.439 --> 01:48:02.560
want to do, but I'm going
to kind of do it my own way.
1592
01:48:03.079 --> 01:48:08.199
And a lot of things happened in
that manner where there was an edict
1593
01:48:08.239 --> 01:48:12.560
and we got it done, but
we might have danced around a point or
1594
01:48:12.600 --> 01:48:16.199
two here or there to kind of
make it what we knew the audience needed
1595
01:48:16.239 --> 01:48:23.479
it to be while still maintaining Vince's
vision. Was as you were observing Vince's
1596
01:48:23.640 --> 01:48:29.520
vision, did the writers talked about
have talked to me about you? Hear
1597
01:48:29.560 --> 01:48:32.199
it a lot that we were writing
for an audience of one, but that
1598
01:48:32.520 --> 01:48:35.479
audience of one is Vince Woman,
and he made it to this point.
1599
01:48:35.640 --> 01:48:39.840
He's the boss. And in Vince's
mind, when you're write for him,
1600
01:48:40.079 --> 01:48:43.239
you're writing for his fan base,
you're writing for the universe to use the
1601
01:48:43.359 --> 01:48:46.760
vernacular, and there's a reason behind
why he wants things written a certain way.
1602
01:48:47.399 --> 01:48:51.039
What level of shoulder shrug was there
too, Yeah, we've got to
1603
01:48:51.039 --> 01:48:55.319
do this thing that Vince want's done, even though it's kind of quirky and
1604
01:48:55.399 --> 01:48:58.399
it's just to plea you know,
it's to entertain himself because he's again you're
1605
01:48:58.399 --> 01:49:00.600
saying he wasn't like this madman at
the wheel. But was there a sense
1606
01:49:01.479 --> 01:49:04.920
that, well, sometimes Vince just
wants something because he gets a kick out
1607
01:49:04.920 --> 01:49:09.479
of it, or was there a
thought, No, we can't second guess
1608
01:49:09.520 --> 01:49:13.439
this guy. The reason he wants
things might be reasons we don't understand.
1609
01:49:13.560 --> 01:49:15.479
But he does things genuinely because he
thinks it's best for business. It's not
1610
01:49:15.640 --> 01:49:19.399
just writing for a guy with quirky
interests to please himself, because this is
1611
01:49:19.439 --> 01:49:24.439
his whole life. I think that
there's I mean, there's bits and pieces
1612
01:49:24.479 --> 01:49:28.920
to all of that. There's a
couple of different answers. So I always
1613
01:49:29.000 --> 01:49:33.239
wrote for me, like I wrote
for what I would want to see as
1614
01:49:33.279 --> 01:49:39.479
a fan, with the very keen
mindset to you know, I know what's
1615
01:49:39.520 --> 01:49:44.720
acceptable and what's not acceptable to to
the ultimate audience of one. But I
1616
01:49:44.760 --> 01:49:48.159
would I would kind of just fantasy
book for myself and see what came out,
1617
01:49:48.239 --> 01:49:51.239
and if if it was too far
from the vision, I kind of
1618
01:49:51.279 --> 01:49:54.640
pull it back a little bit.
But like I was saying before, like
1619
01:49:55.880 --> 01:50:00.880
people weren't necessarily looking to me to
come up with these fantastical ideas on how
1620
01:50:00.960 --> 01:50:03.359
to close raw on a hot angle. You know, if I happen to
1621
01:50:03.439 --> 01:50:08.520
have that idea, then awesome,
But it wasn't my responsibility. So I
1622
01:50:08.600 --> 01:50:11.600
took more chances, I think,
with my writing than some of the other
1623
01:50:11.680 --> 01:50:15.359
guys might have. So I felt
a little bit more free, Like I
1624
01:50:15.399 --> 01:50:20.000
would pitch things that I liked myself. Like I remember going to Brian one
1625
01:50:20.039 --> 01:50:25.720
time and I was like, you
know, I noticed that Jericho puts people
1626
01:50:25.840 --> 01:50:30.640
in the walls of Jericho every match, but no one ever taps out.
1627
01:50:30.880 --> 01:50:32.880
When's the last time someone tapped out? And he's like, that's a good
1628
01:50:32.960 --> 01:50:35.560
question. Find that out. So
you know, do a little homework and
1629
01:50:35.640 --> 01:50:40.039
find out that it's been like two
years. So yeah, Kofi Kingston tapping
1630
01:50:40.079 --> 01:50:43.479
out tonight. So that kind of
stuff like you would bring that up to
1631
01:50:43.600 --> 01:50:47.000
Vince and he liked that sort of
research and that sort of fact checking because
1632
01:50:47.720 --> 01:50:50.800
you know, going back to the
previous question like do you try to do
1633
01:50:50.880 --> 01:50:56.119
you try to avoid repeating history?
A lot of that was kind of tied
1634
01:50:56.199 --> 01:50:59.520
into how you would write, and
you would know that you have to hit
1635
01:50:59.640 --> 01:51:03.399
certain beats and you know that you're
going to like you know that the end
1636
01:51:03.439 --> 01:51:11.000
goal is gonna be Jericho Michael's ladder
match for the title, Like you know
1637
01:51:11.119 --> 01:51:13.399
that, but how do you get
the title on Jericho? And then you
1638
01:51:13.520 --> 01:51:17.560
kind of work backwards, so you
have the vision from Vince and the collective
1639
01:51:17.760 --> 01:51:21.319
agreement that this is the way we
want to go, and then you're writing.
1640
01:51:23.439 --> 01:51:28.880
You're writing your own most entertaining version
of that story with really I mean,
1641
01:51:29.000 --> 01:51:33.560
not too many qualifiers or not too
many limitations on what comes out.
1642
01:51:34.640 --> 01:51:39.840
And so I never I feel like
I've floundered on this question a little bit.
1643
01:51:39.920 --> 01:51:44.399
But I never really felt like I
was writing for Vince because I never
1644
01:51:44.560 --> 01:51:48.279
really felt like Vince would be reading
my paper, like you know, my
1645
01:51:48.520 --> 01:51:54.680
script by itself in a vacuum.
So so it was like I never really
1646
01:51:54.800 --> 01:51:58.560
sweated that too much. I did
my best to fall within company lines and
1647
01:51:58.720 --> 01:52:02.279
keep what we wanted to do going. I had much more feedback from Brian
1648
01:52:02.359 --> 01:52:05.000
as far as if I was pushing
it too far one way or the other
1649
01:52:05.960 --> 01:52:12.800
and if I wasn't writing stuff that
was useful. But yeah, I mean
1650
01:52:12.880 --> 01:52:15.479
it was definitely kind of like,
well, this is where we're going,
1651
01:52:15.560 --> 01:52:16.560
let's make the best of it,
and if he shoots it, down,
1652
01:52:16.600 --> 01:52:18.720
then we'll go with Plan B,
and if he shoots that down, we'll
1653
01:52:18.720 --> 01:52:21.880
go with Plan C. And sometimes
we'd be on Plan in G or H.
1654
01:52:23.039 --> 01:52:25.640
But by the time you're there,
you don't remember what A was,
1655
01:52:25.760 --> 01:52:30.840
so it doesn't matter. With some
podcast memberships, there's a complicated system of
1656
01:52:30.960 --> 01:52:33.840
having to enter a user name and
password in advanced settings, and it works
1657
01:52:33.880 --> 01:52:38.439
on some apps but not others.
That's not the case with pw Torch v
1658
01:52:38.520 --> 01:52:42.720
IP membership. We now have a
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1659
01:52:42.760 --> 01:52:46.800
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01:52:46.880 --> 01:52:50.000
All you need is an authorized VIIP
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01:52:50.000 --> 01:52:54.199
on our express sign up form,
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01:52:54.199 --> 01:52:57.399
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01:52:57.600 --> 01:53:01.279
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01:53:01.359 --> 01:53:05.359
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01:53:12.039 --> 01:53:15.560
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1668
01:53:19.560 --> 01:53:26.079
IP membership pwtorch dot com slash go
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01:53:26.119 --> 01:53:29.720
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01:53:29.920 --> 01:53:36.800
go vi ip. So let's talk
about fans millions. You brought that up,
1671
01:53:39.039 --> 01:53:41.600
what was the reaction to it,
and how do you look back on
1672
01:53:41.720 --> 01:53:45.479
it? Yeah, talk about that. I mean I when when he first
1673
01:53:45.520 --> 01:53:47.159
came in, he's like, McMahon, Vince wants to give away a million
1674
01:53:47.199 --> 01:53:54.359
dollars on raw. It was like, holy crap, really, like is
1675
01:53:54.439 --> 01:53:58.520
this like to a wrestler? Is
this like the like a like a bounty
1676
01:53:58.960 --> 01:54:01.319
on on Steve Boston or like what
what do you mean? No? No,
1677
01:54:01.439 --> 01:54:06.920
no, no. He wants people
to call in, shoot live and
1678
01:54:08.359 --> 01:54:13.600
and give away money. And it
was just like that. That's one of
1679
01:54:13.640 --> 01:54:15.880
those sort of like Vince McMahon kind
of things where you don't even bother asking
1680
01:54:16.000 --> 01:54:18.800
why. You just start thinking about, okay, well, what does the
1681
01:54:18.880 --> 01:54:23.159
podium look like? What is there
a theme song for this? You know,
1682
01:54:23.279 --> 01:54:26.800
like all of that stuff, like
you just start making it happen without
1683
01:54:26.920 --> 01:54:31.119
asking you know, why, or
or anything like that. It was crazy
1684
01:54:31.359 --> 01:54:34.159
and all of us were just scratching
our heads, but it was like,
1685
01:54:34.880 --> 01:54:39.399
Okay, you know, he wants
to do that. And back to your
1686
01:54:39.439 --> 01:54:41.920
point of you know, having different
revenue streams, you know, like he
1687
01:54:42.000 --> 01:54:45.159
might be trying to Spiker rating or
get some some mainstream media coverage or something
1688
01:54:45.199 --> 01:54:49.680
for reasons that we're totally oblivious to. But that was our job, you
1689
01:54:49.760 --> 01:54:54.039
know. Our job was to take
his vision, you know, and kind
1690
01:54:54.079 --> 01:55:00.399
of mold it into something something plausible
or something viable, and and put it
1691
01:55:00.479 --> 01:55:03.199
on TV fifty two weeks out of
the year, and that was mcman's millions.
1692
01:55:03.239 --> 01:55:09.359
And I don't I don't remember if
we had that clear outage. I
1693
01:55:09.680 --> 01:55:13.600
remember that we weren't going to get
to the million thing, the stage was
1694
01:55:13.640 --> 01:55:15.640
going to fall, but I don't
remember what exactly the payoff was going to
1695
01:55:15.720 --> 01:55:19.399
be for that, because it seems
like it never really played out the way
1696
01:55:19.439 --> 01:55:24.920
it was supposed to. If I'm
remembering back, I do remember we were
1697
01:55:24.960 --> 01:55:29.079
shooting a pre tape and there's just
random people kind of walking in the background,
1698
01:55:29.880 --> 01:55:32.279
like Batista was walking down from Gorilla
and Vince was walking with him kind
1699
01:55:32.319 --> 01:55:34.600
of you know, giving him some
notes. After the match, and we
1700
01:55:34.680 --> 01:55:39.800
were doing a pre tape in that
same hallway and one of the other writers
1701
01:55:39.920 --> 01:55:42.760
you know, had to run over
and like kind of tackle Vince because it's
1702
01:55:42.760 --> 01:55:45.800
like, hey, you're supposed to
be in the hospital, so we had
1703
01:55:45.880 --> 01:55:47.720
to we had to keep him off
camera for that. And that was like
1704
01:55:47.920 --> 01:55:53.279
right around that time with Vince gone
that like all that like crazy stuff started
1705
01:55:53.319 --> 01:55:57.800
happening backstage and lighting stuff was falling
down, and there was supposed to be
1706
01:55:57.840 --> 01:56:00.800
a payoff for that, but I
was never privy to where we were going
1707
01:56:00.880 --> 01:56:03.239
with it. It was just yes, dust chaotic on raw, so think
1708
01:56:03.279 --> 01:56:06.960
of goofy stuff that can happen,
and that was one of those, or
1709
01:56:08.159 --> 01:56:11.880
like when the fan kind of jumps
in front of Batista during his promo and
1710
01:56:11.960 --> 01:56:15.199
does the thing, and it was
just a weird time. Like with that
1711
01:56:15.319 --> 01:56:19.199
particular McMahon's millions, that was like
the only time that I felt like maybe
1712
01:56:19.319 --> 01:56:27.560
he's not all home. Yeah yeah, well, um the do do you
1713
01:56:27.680 --> 01:56:33.520
have like a craziest idea that got
pitched that ended up not happening, something
1714
01:56:33.680 --> 01:56:38.880
where somebody kind of swooped in and
said this this shouldn't happen or can't happen.
1715
01:56:39.239 --> 01:56:41.479
Or you just kind of rolled your
eyes and got talked about again when
1716
01:56:41.560 --> 01:56:45.000
something somebody brought it up. I
mean, there was a lot of stuff
1717
01:56:45.079 --> 01:56:47.920
like that, but like I was
saying, it's kind of hard to remember
1718
01:56:48.000 --> 01:56:53.319
all the cutting room floor stuff because
it's not what happened. Like I remember,
1719
01:56:54.239 --> 01:56:59.399
there was definitely a pitch in play
for sort of an incestuous thing with
1720
01:56:59.640 --> 01:57:02.560
with All Burchell and Katie Lee Burchell, and we started planning seats for that,
1721
01:57:02.720 --> 01:57:06.479
and then that fell apart pretty quick. Um, there were some very
1722
01:57:06.600 --> 01:57:14.199
vocal people about that not happening.
Um, geez, I really want to
1723
01:57:14.239 --> 01:57:17.960
think here. So one thing was
like another part of the process is like
1724
01:57:18.039 --> 01:57:23.640
there's a lot of people involved,
and sometimes things don't happen because somebody says
1725
01:57:23.680 --> 01:57:27.279
they can't happen, and then you
find out later that they totally could have
1726
01:57:27.399 --> 01:57:32.239
happened. For example, Seena's feuding
with JBL over the summer and if you
1727
01:57:32.359 --> 01:57:38.079
remember, there's a time where he
demolishes JBL's limo and uh, you know,
1728
01:57:38.199 --> 01:57:43.279
spray paints jbl is poopy on the
side, and man, man,
1729
01:57:43.479 --> 01:57:45.479
that was just that was that was
a rough time. It was back with
1730
01:57:45.640 --> 01:57:49.319
with Cena was doing his little STI
with Crime Time, and he was kind
1731
01:57:49.359 --> 01:57:55.920
of like floundering between between main event
programs, and the tone of that whole
1732
01:57:56.000 --> 01:57:59.720
thing was was just weird because it
was comical and then not comical. But
1733
01:58:00.199 --> 01:58:04.800
I remember that Brian like pitched really
hard for those those bullhorns on the front
1734
01:58:04.880 --> 01:58:09.560
of the limo to get destroyed,
you know, because those were those were
1735
01:58:09.640 --> 01:58:12.960
like very jbl like that's his thing, that's that's his logo. We're going
1736
01:58:13.000 --> 01:58:15.840
to tear those up. And uh. And then the magic guy was like,
1737
01:58:16.199 --> 01:58:18.079
oh no, no, no,
we can't, we can't tear those
1738
01:58:18.159 --> 01:58:20.960
up. We had a guy that
did the car stuff, you know for
1739
01:58:21.119 --> 01:58:24.960
backstage and things like that, and
and he's like, oh no, we
1740
01:58:24.960 --> 01:58:27.640
can't tear those up. Those are
way too expensive, way too expensive.
1741
01:58:28.119 --> 01:58:30.520
So we write it out of the
script and we never really think about it.
1742
01:58:30.560 --> 01:58:33.000
And then after the deal's over and
we've got the spray painted limo with
1743
01:58:33.079 --> 01:58:36.199
these pristine bullhorns on, it's like, man, it'd be really cool if
1744
01:58:36.199 --> 01:58:40.840
he could have just taken those off
and smashed him or you know, did
1745
01:58:40.920 --> 01:58:45.399
something like that, like when uh, like when Brock tore up the J
1746
01:58:45.520 --> 01:58:48.319
and J security car, you know, like he demolished that thing. If
1747
01:58:48.319 --> 01:58:53.239
I'm remembering, it was brock right
that tore up the Cadillac with with Jamie
1748
01:58:53.319 --> 01:58:56.640
Noble, and I think it was
him, I think so, yeah,
1749
01:58:56.960 --> 01:58:59.680
yeah, so, but like he
just like went all in on the car,
1750
01:58:59.840 --> 01:59:01.800
no worries about that, and it's
and like you you think back,
1751
01:59:01.840 --> 01:59:05.359
and you're like this, this is
the same company that that ran monster trucks
1752
01:59:05.479 --> 01:59:11.479
over Lincoln continentals and stuff like how
expensive are these bullhorns? Like are these
1753
01:59:11.560 --> 01:59:15.399
off of an endangered species or what? And then the guy's like, no,
1754
01:59:15.560 --> 01:59:17.520
man, they're really expensive. They're
like four hundred bucks, you know.
1755
01:59:17.600 --> 01:59:21.279
And it was like okay, So, so we had this grand idea,
1756
01:59:21.399 --> 01:59:26.800
this beautiful visual. Yeah, we're
gonna we're gonna demolish the visage of
1757
01:59:26.960 --> 01:59:31.319
JBL you know, we're gonna kill
his mascot basically, and we didn't over
1758
01:59:31.439 --> 01:59:35.720
four hundred dollars, Like the catering
for a breakfast cost more than that,
1759
01:59:35.840 --> 01:59:40.520
Are you kidding me? So like
something like that. That's that was an
1760
01:59:40.600 --> 01:59:44.880
idea that never made it to where
it was where it could have been because
1761
01:59:45.000 --> 01:59:46.880
somebody was like, oh no,
we can't do that, and none of
1762
01:59:47.000 --> 01:59:53.840
us ever questioned him. There was
another pitch that that that Shamus when he
1763
01:59:53.920 --> 01:59:56.680
came in, like Shamus should carry
an axe to the ring, you know,
1764
01:59:56.800 --> 01:59:58.880
kind of like the bludge and Brothers
do. Now, he should carry
1765
01:59:58.920 --> 02:00:03.319
an axe, And one of the
writing team guys was very quick to dismiss
1766
02:00:03.399 --> 02:00:05.399
that. He's like, no,
no, no, no, Shamus can't
1767
02:00:05.479 --> 02:00:10.119
have an axe because you can never
pay that off. What do you mean,
1768
02:00:10.560 --> 02:00:13.520
we can never hit anybody with it
because then they'll die, you know.
1769
02:00:13.640 --> 02:00:16.760
And so like, like you come
up with so much goofy stuff like
1770
02:00:16.920 --> 02:00:23.039
that that it's easy to forget because
like you're shooting stuff down as it's like
1771
02:00:23.520 --> 02:00:28.439
leaving the hangar. So like,
these aren't ideas that ever really have a
1772
02:00:28.560 --> 02:00:31.319
true like the ability to truly take
flight. Not anything high level, like
1773
02:00:31.439 --> 02:00:34.479
I can't say like, oh,
we had this massive plan for you know,
1774
02:00:34.560 --> 02:00:39.239
seeing it to be Vince's adopted stone
or something like that. There was
1775
02:00:39.279 --> 02:00:42.479
never anything like that in my tenure
at least that I can recall right off
1776
02:00:42.479 --> 02:00:46.399
the top of my head. Thanks
for listening to our podcast. Did you
1777
02:00:46.479 --> 02:00:51.199
know we also have a website pwtorch
dot com, daily news updates, editorials,
1778
02:00:51.560 --> 02:00:56.840
and my live TV coverage covering Row, Dynamite and SmackDown and my live
1779
02:00:56.960 --> 02:01:00.720
pay per view coverage for WWE and
a e W. Create a tab or
1780
02:01:00.760 --> 02:01:03.000
bookmark, make it a daily stop. Visit us throughout the day every day
1781
02:01:03.039 --> 02:01:12.760
to keep up on breaking news and
more. That's Pwtorch dot com. The
1782
02:01:12.880 --> 02:01:16.079
broadcaster thing was in twenty fifteen,
I did, I did confirm online Yes
1783
02:01:16.479 --> 02:01:20.720
he smashed the car like totally,
Like the car is totally yes, And
1784
02:01:21.560 --> 02:01:26.960
so you learned the question you have
to ask is expensive? How expensive?
1785
02:01:27.000 --> 02:01:30.319
Exactly? That's a good question,
exactly exactly define that, Define that because
1786
02:01:31.119 --> 02:01:35.520
a few weeks later we're crashing a
car into another limo and you know,
1787
02:01:36.000 --> 02:01:40.960
doing thousands of dollars worth the bodywork
dampage. So yeah, it's a question
1788
02:01:41.079 --> 02:01:43.960
that I wish I would have asked, because it would have really made that
1789
02:01:44.039 --> 02:01:48.720
segment a lot better than the spray
paint deal. How aware were writers that
1790
02:01:48.880 --> 02:01:54.119
you knew of to the public reaction
to what they were doing? Both UM
1791
02:01:54.319 --> 02:01:57.960
in terms of metrics like TV ratings, quarter hours that that get talked about
1792
02:01:58.399 --> 02:02:02.199
UM feedback from then, but also
the internet or I mean podcasts weren't as
1793
02:02:02.239 --> 02:02:05.439
big then, but UM in social
media one, it wasn't as big then,
1794
02:02:05.479 --> 02:02:12.119
But how how tuned in did you
sense the writers were too outside reaction
1795
02:02:12.920 --> 02:02:15.680
and really in a renter reaction all
that, Well, what kind of how
1796
02:02:15.760 --> 02:02:17.600
valuable is feedback and how do they
gauge reaction to what they wrote and did
1797
02:02:19.159 --> 02:02:23.000
We looked a lot at ratings.
We looked a lot at and Minutes by
1798
02:02:23.039 --> 02:02:27.680
Minutes would generally be there when we
got we'd have that quarterly ratings on Wednesday,
1799
02:02:27.960 --> 02:02:30.079
usually when we got back to the
office, and then we'd have minute
1800
02:02:30.079 --> 02:02:33.199
by minutes on Thursday. So you
would kind of see like, oh,
1801
02:02:33.359 --> 02:02:35.960
you know, it ticked up real
big when when Punk came out, or
1802
02:02:36.000 --> 02:02:41.279
it ticked up real or it fell
down really quickly, you know, when
1803
02:02:41.880 --> 02:02:44.840
when Mike Knox is on the screen
or something like that, and you don't
1804
02:02:44.880 --> 02:02:46.560
necessarily say like, okay, this
guy, thanks the ratings, so we
1805
02:02:46.600 --> 02:02:49.960
need to get him off the show, or we need to it just kind
1806
02:02:50.000 --> 02:02:53.039
of like, okay, we need
to script him differently, or we need
1807
02:02:53.079 --> 02:02:56.760
to position him not as a tent
pole, but as you know, something
1808
02:02:56.840 --> 02:03:00.159
that falls in between the two.
So they were extremely aware of that stuff.
1809
02:03:00.800 --> 02:03:06.600
We never, from what I can
recall, never openly discussed um like
1810
02:03:06.760 --> 02:03:13.520
PW Torch or or anything like that. I would still beat it because I
1811
02:03:13.720 --> 02:03:16.960
was curious to see, you know, kind of like what your reactions were
1812
02:03:17.039 --> 02:03:20.399
with the community's reactions were to things
that we were doing, you know,
1813
02:03:20.520 --> 02:03:24.279
like what I would be very curious, you know, because I was I
1814
02:03:24.399 --> 02:03:27.880
was reading The Torch way back before
I started there. So you know,
1815
02:03:27.960 --> 02:03:29.920
we'd go, we do a pay
per view, and I would say,
1816
02:03:30.479 --> 02:03:33.880
like, okay, you know Batista
and then and Shawn Michaels just had a
1817
02:03:33.920 --> 02:03:36.600
stretcher match. I wonder what Wade
thought, you know, and I'd go
1818
02:03:36.680 --> 02:03:40.000
and I'd I'd see it is a
two stars. Oh man, it was
1819
02:03:40.039 --> 02:03:42.600
way better than that. Four stars. Now, I wasn't that good.
1820
02:03:43.079 --> 02:03:45.960
You know. So you kind of
like you have your opinions and you're a
1821
02:03:46.000 --> 02:03:51.600
little tainted because like you you see
what those guys look like when they come
1822
02:03:51.680 --> 02:03:55.319
backstage, you know, and you
know that they went out there, and
1823
02:03:55.439 --> 02:03:58.159
you know that they gave every single
thing that they had, and maybe just
1824
02:03:58.359 --> 02:04:00.800
like the layout of the match wasn't
quite right, or the scripting wasn't right,
1825
02:04:00.920 --> 02:04:05.039
or the storyline wasn't right, and
you kind of you kind of feel
1826
02:04:05.079 --> 02:04:09.960
for them when guys, when when
people you know, out in the message
1827
02:04:10.000 --> 02:04:14.880
board land or whatever, are like
are talking about how so and so's you
1828
02:04:14.960 --> 02:04:16.880
know, not good or they've lost
their touch, or they've you know,
1829
02:04:16.960 --> 02:04:21.000
they're they're not hot anymore, and
you know, you look back and it's
1830
02:04:21.039 --> 02:04:27.600
just like you start to regard these
people as more than just as as wrestlers.
1831
02:04:27.680 --> 02:04:30.520
You look at them as people.
And I mean it's tough. It's
1832
02:04:30.600 --> 02:04:33.760
tough to watch like Undertaker, you
know, walk around backstage during my time
1833
02:04:33.800 --> 02:04:36.760
there, I mean, and this
was ten years ago, because he would
1834
02:04:36.800 --> 02:04:40.760
go out, he'd knock out this
match like like he's, you know,
1835
02:04:40.920 --> 02:04:43.359
thirty years old. And then as
soon as he gets past that curtain,
1836
02:04:43.439 --> 02:04:45.479
it's like, you know, he's
back to this sort of you know,
1837
02:04:45.680 --> 02:04:49.640
shell of himself, and and you
feel bad giving him anything less than four
1838
02:04:49.720 --> 02:04:54.760
stars in my mind, because it's
like, well, if you saw what
1839
02:04:54.920 --> 02:04:58.079
I saw, you would understand how
much it takes for him to be that
1840
02:04:58.279 --> 02:05:02.760
guy. So we were very aware, at least me and and the guys
1841
02:05:03.039 --> 02:05:05.479
on my sort of what I would
call totem, you know, me and
1842
02:05:05.560 --> 02:05:10.680
the other writer assistant, we talk
a lot about you know what what PW
1843
02:05:10.920 --> 02:05:13.920
Torch was saying, or you know, one another one of the sheets might
1844
02:05:13.960 --> 02:05:16.000
be saying at the time, and
please don't take offense to sheets. No,
1845
02:05:16.239 --> 02:05:19.359
no, no, you know,
so you know, we would talk
1846
02:05:19.359 --> 02:05:21.640
about that in our circle. But
I mean, you know, like you
1847
02:05:21.680 --> 02:05:26.359
wouldn't bring up, like, you
know, PW Torch in a broad sense
1848
02:05:26.439 --> 02:05:31.359
to guys because it's just not it's
you know, people have their opinions about
1849
02:05:31.479 --> 02:05:34.520
what you do, and um,
you're not going to shape those. So
1850
02:05:34.640 --> 02:05:41.159
it's just better to not fight an
unnecessary fight or not out guys who who
1851
02:05:41.479 --> 02:05:45.079
you know, support the Torch or
who are fans of it that too,
1852
02:05:45.399 --> 02:05:47.239
you know, so you're it's kind
of like a lose lose situation. But
1853
02:05:47.319 --> 02:05:51.439
we would absolutely look at at fan
reactions. We look at at minute by
1854
02:05:51.479 --> 02:05:57.760
minute ratings if we so, for
any show that we weren't on the road
1855
02:05:57.840 --> 02:06:00.039
for. And this happened kind of
later on in my time there, where
1856
02:06:00.039 --> 02:06:04.000
they started having a stay at home
squad and then to go to work squad.
1857
02:06:04.600 --> 02:06:06.760
When we were on the stay at
home squad, we would watch the
1858
02:06:06.840 --> 02:06:12.319
show and we would do basically like
a raw recap, you know, after
1859
02:06:12.399 --> 02:06:17.239
the show's done. And I remember
getting some heat with with somebody because we
1860
02:06:17.319 --> 02:06:21.600
were doing a show from New Orleans
and I was back in the office and
1861
02:06:21.800 --> 02:06:27.079
they went to like a Bourbon Street
shot and there was nobody there. It
1862
02:06:27.239 --> 02:06:30.520
was like total ghost town. And
I wrote in my report it was like,
1863
02:06:30.680 --> 02:06:32.039
Man, I hope that you know
all the people who would normally be
1864
02:06:32.119 --> 02:06:35.800
on Bourbon Street or at Rock because
like we picked a super dead scene to
1865
02:06:35.920 --> 02:06:41.279
shoot, you know, And and
afterward it was like, oh, hey,
1866
02:06:41.359 --> 02:06:44.680
man, you know, don't kind
of say that stuff. And that
1867
02:06:44.880 --> 02:06:47.760
was I think part of what kind
of started leading them to believe that,
1868
02:06:47.920 --> 02:06:51.039
Okay, maybe Jason's not in this, because if he was, he might
1869
02:06:51.119 --> 02:06:55.439
care a little bit more. And
that wasn't meant to be a dig like
1870
02:06:55.560 --> 02:06:58.560
at the producer or at the camera
guy or whatever. It was just my
1871
02:06:58.680 --> 02:07:00.840
observations as a and which you've told
me to do, told me to sit
1872
02:07:00.920 --> 02:07:03.960
here and be a fan. If
I'm as a fan and you're trying to
1873
02:07:04.039 --> 02:07:08.760
tell me that this is the most
happening city in America, show me something
1874
02:07:08.880 --> 02:07:12.680
that tells me this is the most
happening city in America. Yeah, So
1875
02:07:12.760 --> 02:07:16.960
small stuff like that, we give
that feedback. And we were encouraged to.
1876
02:07:17.520 --> 02:07:20.079
We went out on a house show
loop once when we were out in
1877
02:07:20.159 --> 02:07:24.119
California where we just sat in the
crowd and just soaked it in. And
1878
02:07:24.479 --> 02:07:26.880
because I mean, you know as
well as I do that a house show
1879
02:07:26.920 --> 02:07:30.560
crowd can be very different than the
TV crowd, especially today, I feel
1880
02:07:30.640 --> 02:07:33.920
like that gap has gotten much much
wider now than it used to be.
1881
02:07:34.880 --> 02:07:38.720
So there you see, like what
people are chanting, what kind of signs
1882
02:07:38.760 --> 02:07:42.840
they're bringing, and that kind of
gives you a vibe and idea of they're
1883
02:07:42.920 --> 02:07:46.399
buying into this aspect of this character. So maybe we should emphasize that they're
1884
02:07:46.439 --> 02:07:50.439
calling him this on the cards,
so maybe we should consider working that in.
1885
02:07:51.000 --> 02:07:55.640
So there was always an ear to
the ground to the fans, but
1886
02:07:55.920 --> 02:07:59.359
there was always that same like,
you know, hey, this is what
1887
02:07:59.520 --> 02:08:03.000
we're doing, and unless the wheels
absolutely fall off or some guy gets injured,
1888
02:08:03.039 --> 02:08:07.000
this is the plan. Hell or
high water, get in the boat,
1889
02:08:07.119 --> 02:08:09.880
you know, all right. So
we'll wrap up Part two and come
1890
02:08:09.920 --> 02:08:16.800
back next week with the third and
final hour of this fascinating interview with Jason
1891
02:08:16.880 --> 02:08:20.399
Ellen, who is kind enough to
share details of his experience working behind the
1892
02:08:20.479 --> 02:08:24.319
scenes in ww Either some great stuff
coming up. Be sure to check out
1893
02:08:26.039 --> 02:08:30.520
next week's program download it next Friday. But between now and then, I
1894
02:08:30.640 --> 02:08:35.079
will be hosting the Weight Keller Pro
Wrestling Podcast b W Torch b ip info
1895
02:08:35.760 --> 02:08:41.039
dot com. Thank you everybody for
your support and until next time, Wade
1896
02:08:41.119 --> 02:08:43.960
Keller encourage you get to follow me
on Twitter at the Wade Keller and our
1897
02:08:45.000 --> 02:08:48.159
brand at PW Torch, or friend
me on Facebook at Facebook dot com slash
1898
02:08:48.439 --> 02:08:54.720
Wade Keller Torch or follow our brand
on Facebook at Facebook dot com slash PW
1899
02:08:54.000 --> 02:09:09.720
torch. And until next time,
Weight Keller signing on invite you to email
1900
02:09:09.760 --> 02:09:13.720
the show with feedback or questions or
comments. That email address is Wade Keller
1901
02:09:13.840 --> 02:09:18.319
Podcast at pewtorch dot com. That's
Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com.
1902
02:09:18.520 --> 02:09:22.159
Also welcome your feedback on Twitter.
You can follow us on Twitter at PW
1903
02:09:22.399 --> 02:09:28.439
Torch and follow me at the Wade
Keller. That's at PW Torch and at
1904
02:09:28.640 --> 02:09:31.800
the Wade Keller. One way that
you can help us sustain our schedule of
1905
02:09:31.880 --> 02:09:35.319
putting out podcasts throughout the week is
by giving us a five star rating on
1906
02:09:35.439 --> 02:09:39.079
Apple Podcasts. Just go to Apple
podcast and look for our weight Keiller Prosing
1907
02:09:39.079 --> 02:09:43.720
podcast and Weight Killer Prosing post show
and give us a five star rating.
1908
02:09:43.800 --> 02:09:46.479
We hope you think we've earned that
score with our fast turnaround times and our
1909
02:09:46.560 --> 02:09:52.239
quantity and quality of wrestling analysis throughout
the week. So take a moment out
1910
02:09:52.359 --> 02:09:54.520
for us and do us favor and
give us a five star rating at Apple
1911
02:09:54.560 --> 02:09:58.600
podcast that helps us on search returns
and helps us grow, And if you
1912
02:09:58.680 --> 02:10:01.239
want, can add a few comments
about what you like about the programs in
1913
02:10:01.319 --> 02:10:09.239
the comments section. Thank you so
much. Do you remember when Hulkogan shocked
1914
02:10:09.279 --> 02:10:13.720
the world and form the New World
Order or when Stonecoat Steve Aoston passed down
1915
02:10:13.760 --> 02:10:18.920
in the Sharpshooter to break the Hitman
heart. I'm Torch contributor Frank Pettianni and
1916
02:10:18.079 --> 02:10:24.279
I reviewed these shows and many more
for my exclusive VIP podcast, Pro Wrestling
1917
02:10:24.359 --> 02:10:28.000
Than and Now. Together with a
rotating chair of co hosts, we go
1918
02:10:28.119 --> 02:10:31.079
back ten, twenty, even thirty
years, review pay per views from top
1919
02:10:31.159 --> 02:10:35.880
to bottom, talk about where the
wrestlers were at the time, and compare
1920
02:10:35.920 --> 02:10:39.960
what took place then to what is
taking place now. You get exclusive access
1921
02:10:39.039 --> 02:10:45.119
to these and other podcasts as part
of your PW torch Vip membership, which
1922
02:10:45.199 --> 02:10:50.239
is compatible with the Apple Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch dot com slash go vip
1923
02:10:50.399 --> 02:11:03.640
for details and sign up for In
twenty twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental
1924
02:11:03.760 --> 02:11:09.079
system and ultimately the brand you've seen
today. On the Torch Vip podcast NXT
1925
02:11:09.359 --> 02:11:13.800
Eight Years Back, we'll be taking
a weekly look at this page in NXT's
1926
02:11:13.840 --> 02:11:20.039
early history. Join Kellywells and me
Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday
1927
02:11:20.119 --> 02:11:22.880
as we go eight years back to
the day to track NXT's rising talents and
1928
02:11:22.960 --> 02:11:28.199
why they did or didn't work out, exclusively for PW Torch vip members.
1929
02:11:30.199 --> 02:11:33.399
Searching for more great pro wrestling talk, then join me. Jason Powell hosted
1930
02:11:33.479 --> 02:11:37.560
the pre weekly Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast. Each week, you'll hear the latest
1931
02:11:37.560 --> 02:11:41.800
news and analysis from me and my
team at pro wrestling dot Net along with
1932
02:11:41.880 --> 02:11:46.079
other pro wrestling media members. Plus, the Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast features long
1933
02:11:46.199 --> 02:11:50.359
form interviews with notable names in the
pro wrestling industry. Subscribe an I team
1934
02:11:50.399 --> 02:11:54.760
at Stitcher, Downcast and all your
favorite secondary apps, or visit us directly
1935
02:11:54.840 --> 02:12:01.359
at pwboom dot com. Once again, that's pwboom dot com. Need an
1936
02:12:01.399 --> 02:12:07.399
extra dose of positivity in your wrestling
podcasts, will come join me Alan fell
1937
02:12:07.479 --> 02:12:11.359
Over in the Progress Paradise at pot
Torch VIP as we bask on the bright
1938
02:12:11.479 --> 02:12:16.680
side of wrestling and focus on some
of the great matches and shows from around
1939
02:12:16.760 --> 02:12:20.640
the world, be at the US, Japan, Europe or Mexico. There's
1940
02:12:20.640 --> 02:12:24.279
always a place for wrestlings pasted in
the Paradise too, and we've done fun
1941
02:12:24.399 --> 02:12:30.720
historical shows such as the We love
Lyger series celebrating the glorious career of Juician
1942
02:12:30.800 --> 02:12:33.600
thunder Lighter and our I Was There
When shows where our guests will join me
1943
02:12:33.840 --> 02:12:37.720
to talk about a classic bout that
they were in attendance for. We love
1944
02:12:37.800 --> 02:12:43.760
variety and you can expect lots of
it at the Progress Paradise. Detailed pwfs
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Torch VIP subscription information and a list
of all the VIP benefits is available at
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pw Torch vipinfo dot com. And
yes, all VIP podcasts are compatible with
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popular podcast apps on iPhone and Android
devices, or you can stream and direct
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plea from our ad free VIP mobile
site. See you in the Paradise Wrestling
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fans. Are you that person that
works in a pro wrestling reference to every
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aspect of your life? Well?
Where are those kind of people too?
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But we do so with mixed martial
arts. I'm Robert Valla, host host
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of MMA Talk for pro wrestling fans
every Monday on PW Torch's daily cast lineup.
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Not only do we cover every UFC
in Bellator events, we provide context
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that only a wrestling fan would really
understand. I mean, we're the type
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of people that if you ask us
about how much of a mess the middleweight
1956
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title situation is, we're likely to
reference WCW in the early nineties. Think
1957
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of us as a podcast for casual
MMA fans done by hardcore wrestling notes.
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And you could find us by searching
Pwtorch and Apple Podcasts or any popular podcast
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app. And we're always available on
demand atwtwards dailycast dot com, where you
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could check out the entire lineup of
the p twmet towards daily casts. Now
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that at summer you might be looking
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door, or having to make a
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too busy with summer plants to cook
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nutritional quality you need. Factors fresh
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back outside and soak up the warm
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the middle of watching pro wrestling well
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a Factor meal in the microwave.
In two minutes later, you're sitting down
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finishing the show. But with a
meal you can feel good about eating.
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I have loved having Factor in my
refrigerator. I eat primarily a vegan diet,
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and I love their options. But
they've got options for everybody, including
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people who are in ketto diets or
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chicken, Italian sausage, and sweet
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it anchio, live salmon, and
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when you get to pick out the
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of select meals for you that fit
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week or two if you're going to
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plants outside the house. It's so
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knowing that they are Dietitian approved,
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feeling satisfied. I can speak from
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are. But they've got calorie conscious
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trying to lose some weight and if
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or gain weight. They have protein
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without taste or satisfaction, this is
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includes three bean vegan chili, vegan
mushroom marsala harrisa I think that's all you
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say it, braised garbanzos stew.
The next week, my vegan options are
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peanut bootaball, tomato, roasted vegetable, risotto, smoked tofu, almond stir
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fry, and blacken tofu. Those
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next few weeks. You can also
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to Factor meals dot com slash Wade
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That's code Wade fifty at factor meals
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percent off your first box. Longing
for some nostalgia, or maybe you want
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to learn some wrestling history, don't
miss the nineties Pass cast every Friday on
2006
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the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed.
Alex and Patrick will transport you thirty years
2007
02:17:20.360 --> 02:17:24.440
into the past by taking you through
the Torch issue from that very week.
2008
02:17:26.040 --> 02:17:30.200
Follow news from the WWF and WCW
and all of the happenings from across the
2009
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wrestling industry in real time as The
Torch reported it thirty years ago. That's
2010
02:17:35.280 --> 02:17:54.280
the nineties. Passcasts every Friday for
the PW Torch Daily Cast Feed. Aloha
2011
02:17:54.520 --> 02:17:58.559
Torch Faithful. This is Kelly Wells, host of PWT Talks and XT Every
2012
02:17:58.639 --> 02:18:01.879
Thursday. You can hear me in
My Game of Idiots, Tom Stout,
2013
02:18:01.920 --> 02:18:07.120
who shares thoughts from the live tapings
and Torch recap or Nate Lindbergh, as
2014
02:18:07.159 --> 02:18:11.600
well as a rotating cast of guests
cover the matches and events in NXT live
2015
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on USA Network. Search PW Torch
in Apple Podcasts or your podcast app to
2016
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subscribe or listen on demand and see
the entire PW Torch Dailycast schedule at Pwtorch
2017
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Dailycast dot com. Cheers thanks for
downloading today's show. Take it to the
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next level with a VIP membership.
Get shows like this the Wait Killer Prosing
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Podcast, Wait Killer Prosing Post Show
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listening experience, and also hear the
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signature v IP series that you're missing
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VIP here in twenty twenty two and
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content and the ad free listening experience. Pwtors dot com slash go vi ip.
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Anytime you're watching ww E Raw or
SmackDown or AW Dynamite in particular,
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send us an email if you've got
thoughts on the show or a topic you
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want us to address, or a
question for us. Wade Keller Podcast at
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pwtorch dot com. Wade Keller Podcast
at pewtorch dot com. If there's anything
2030
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else going on in pro wrestling that
you want us to address on our main
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podcast during our mail bank segments,
that same email applies Wade Keller Podcast at
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pwtorch dot com. We invite that
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of what we're saying, and let
us know what you want us to talk
2034
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about and ask us specific questions.
Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com.
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Support us on Patreon starting at four
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March through pro wrestling history with a
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Every week we jump back eighteen years
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march through our coverage of progressling history
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Mitchell audio shows within depth tournaments analysis
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Mever, go to pwtorch dot com, slash go vi ip and sign up
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today. Every Sunday night, catch
Wrestling Night in America on pwtrch daileycast dot
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com, hosted by me pwtrch columnist
Greg Parks. Each week, I'll welcome
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a co host from the Torch family
to discuss the big shows in pro wrestling,
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taking your calls and emails. You
can listen live most week's beginning at
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eight pm Eastern on Sunday nights with
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we go on the air. At
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2058
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you can listen live, but of
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download on demand anytime shortly after it
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click the live stream link to find
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Sunday, pwtrchdaiycast dot com. Give
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Go into the mailbox each week with
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my TV reports, along with exclusive
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top story of the week, our
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staff, exclusive feature length columns from
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and settle in every week with the
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